All right. Uh, I'm going to call to order the September 30, 2025 special meeting for the Independent School District 194, Lakeville Area Schools. Um, if we will take roll call starting on my left and go around the table. >> Carly Anderson, Kim Baker, >> Brett Nicholson, >> Paul Corbone, >> Amber Cameron, >> Michael Bowman, >> and I'm Matt Swanson. Uh there there are only two things on the agenda. We were going to um do a close session, but we pushed that out due to staffing issues and we did get a little bit more time. Um but yeah, wanted to jump into this so we could spend a little bit of time on this as opposed to doing it a regular board meeting. Um one Yeah, I guess we'll just start with the board goals. Um Brian Please let the record reflect Brian Thompson strolling in at 6:02 p.m. >> casual. Uh I wanted to put the board goals on here and I I appreciate Superintendent Bowman providing this draft on his Friday notes last Friday of the written out board goals. uh just to chat as a board on what items um we might need to attack sooner rather than later and then maybe see if certain individuals want to uh you know kind of take on certain items um and and I'll explain I guess there are certain things here that we we're just going to do so as part of our board processes and our meetings. First one create executive dashboard and set targets. So that's just going to happen um you know within the next 30 days as part of our board meetings. Um the second and third one I mean we're going to talk about superintendent evaluations after this but finalize a board handbook was one I wanted to discuss just with the group get thoughts on um how to most efficiently do that before January 2026. Um my thought and maybe we had discussed this before was have kind of a subgroup of the board, you know, draft up our proposed um handbook and then bring it back and maybe we could focus on some key areas that we wanted to discuss as a board. Uh my concern would be if we try to go section by section as the full board, it might take a lot of time. >> Are we allowed to send it to the group ahead of time? Everybody can read it. If a subgroup puts together a preliminary draft, we can send it to the group. Everybody can read it and come with thoughts and amendments or whatever and then hash it out and be done. >> Yeah. I mean, we could do another one of these, you know, once the draft is put together. >> Does that work for everybody else? >> I don't really like that process. >> No. What do you recommend? >> Well, MSBA recommends that we go through it as a group. because you're Yep. >> Y >> um well, you can look I think Kim Nelson provided quite a bit of documentation on that that it helps to go through it as a group and go through all the different things so that everyone has input in the process. Um you can break it up so that you have like one working session a month and you have a timeline for the things that you want to cover. I think we could get through it rather quickly. Um, but I also feel like there needs to be discussion about those things. >> When was the last time it was revised? We >> We've never written it. We don't even have one. >> There's not even a There's not even a board. >> I've seen like that is not a board handbook. That is for people that are running for school board. >> Something with like Judy Keller's picture on it. >> For people that are running for board like they give it to everybody that >> So, >> yeah. So, did you Was that one of your goals? >> Yes. >> Was that one of your goals last last session that you were going to do board book? I mean, I don't know. >> It was one of the things that we >> Yeah, it was one of the things that we had always talked about because when we got on board, it was always like, well, that's not the way we've done things or that's not the board procedure. And we're like, well, what is the board procedure? It's not written down anywhere. Um, and then MSBA started working on it because we had the other school boards had said the same thing. And so then they came up with a draft that you could work from. I want to say like December. >> Yeah. >> So we didn't get a chance to do it. >> I'm not aligned to having someone cook in the kitchen try to to create a handbook sentence by sentence. Uh I'm in favor of having two or three individuals rip through it and then give it to the rest of the board members to review it and then we can review section by section kind of like a consent agenda like do you guys like this section one? Do you have any questions about it? Do you like section two? Do you have any questions about it? But that seems to be the most efficient use of our time. Or if we're going to go through one section and we are hammer it out, which is fine, then I foresee Brian Thompson speaking more asking more questions on every single topic, which is fine, but like I I don't think that's the best use of our time. So that's my point of view. >> Well, there is a draft right now, right? >> There's a template. >> Yeah. So maybe one option would be um just to have maybe it's not like we're starting from scratch. So we could either have the group go through it or we could have a smaller group go through the already established template to make it more specific to like >> if a smaller group goes through it and and creates the foundation. I mean we still ultimately have to bring it back to everybody and we all look at it again. >> Yeah. >> So I mean Kim don't we get to the same spot doing that? Well, I just kind of look at like they that's what they do is like work with school boards and policy and procedure and if they recommend that reason or that procedure, there's got to be, you know, some some solid evidence as to why that's um helpful. Um, I mean, if you if you guys are just not that interested in it and you would rather do it that way, then >> can we do a sub option then as everybody read it? Come with things that you're really passionate about changing or adapting to us. Otherwise, the template will be what the template is unless you have unless you have a piece that you really want to change. And then we can all talk about those and walk through it kind of. the template is just like there's none of that stuff is in there. Like none of the procedures, none of it. So that's where I'm like you're recreating everything. And the other thing is like it should be pretty basic because otherwise like every board that comes through once members change they can change it which is true >> which they can. Yeah, >> they can do that. But I mean you also have to think like what are the things that we've done and what are the things that we've established as a board? We haven't even done it. So, I don't know how we can even write a handbook at this point. We haven't done any of that stuff or any of that. >> Was when we start with one section, >> but because there's a I mean, if you've looked at I've looked at other districts handbooks and there's a lot of sections that are just kind of likeformational, right? And then there are sections like standard operating procedures, which we will want to discuss as a board, >> right? >> Yeah. theformational sections actually shouldn't >> I think if you just talk to Kim Ellson because it's like history on the district >> and those are things that could be completed by our district office staff. Um but the actual procedures like we haven't that's really the most important part and we haven't discussed that as a board. So, >> so is it possible um and go back to um Amber's thought with negotiations and right of assignment and you went and and almost copied a one of the other districts >> 196 school board. >> Yeah, that's that's where I was going. Is there a school board that's got already a handbook that looks pretty >> Well, I mean can I just say something? We got to be real careful. things that are in closed session are not supposed to be discussed especially around negotiation. So I just want to >> Oh I mean technically it was discussed at negotiation which is an open meeting too but yeah >> no the close session that we're talking about right now. I I'm just >> that was added during a close session. >> That was a close session decision by the board. So or recommendation. >> Yeah. But which they were which the EML was informed at open meeting negotiation. So but yeah I get what you're saying. Okay. >> All right. So, so the point is >> Amber at one point in time brought something to us that was from another school district for something. >> There there in lies the point. So my point is, is there a way to to find and maybe Amber just pulled one up, another school district that's got a handbook that we could use as a foundation rather than going all the way back and and starting to draft something from scratch? Well, that's what the template is, but again, like we haven't discussed any of this stuff as a board. So, really the most important part is your board procedures and how you want to run your meetings. So, that way when a new board takes over, there's a foundation for them to work from, but we haven't done that. So, like I said, the other pieces can be done by district office staff. So, I think the procedures would need to be a board discussion. >> What if we start with that? >> Yeah, let's try this role. >> Another way to think about it is like this. >> Yeah. the MSBA school schoolboard handbook. Think of it like a policy. They created a draft version for us. Every school district h will interpret it and and and edit it the way they want to. So if you view the school schoolboard handbook like a policy, do you want to send it to a policy/school board handbook committee, have them review it, make edits, make updates, and then bring it back to the board and we all review it. or do we want to go section by section by section during a regular board meeting which will probably spend a half an hour every time every meeting maybe two hours every meeting and then decide what to do with it. So I'm in favor of small committee. >> So I do think we we're not starting from scratch because we do have policies right and the policies kind of dictate this is how the board meetings operate. this is the agenda and so we that's where it all should tie back to and as we update our policies which is a later point on here we will need to make sure that the handbook is updated accordingly. So I so again I think we do need to come back to have the discussion on SOPs but I don't think we're precluded or I don't think it wouldn't be I think it would be efficient to have you know a smaller group put something together first based on you know you can look at other models but also >> make a motion for a small group to be created. >> We're not we're not voting on anything but >> oh I mean we're going around in circles either like let's who's in favor or who's not. Let's make a decision. I I was just going to say if we all if we come back to I think where probably people would feel I don't want to speak for um but less comfortable with like a whole handbook being edited and coming before the board without ample time to really review it. So if we commit to kind of yes one small group saying okay this is what the template is this is what our policies say how are we going to rise this to be consistent with lake bill but then we review it more comprehensively so section by section as a board >> yeah I like that I mean you could have the committee review a section of it and then they can bring it forward instead of bringing the whole book forward is that what you're suggesting >> well I think the procedures should come back to the whole board because we have not talked about that And I feel like it would be good for us to work through that together because >> we're not a functional board. >> We have I disagree with that. >> We have dysfunction and I think that the conversation would be helpful. >> What if um >> which we will have obviously I mean going over it it's going to be but we we do have policies that govern how we operate already. So that's a good foundation to start from. I mean the the reality though is the the template from MSBA is 33 pages long. So, um, and we don't have to be 33 pages long, but it's easy to get long-winded. >> Well, let's just start with the policy, the the stuff that we, you know, that's the thing you want to hammer out first anyway. I mean, let's just do the SOPs as a group >> and then the rest of it, deal with that after we like >> if that's the issue or the the the thing that we really need to do, let's just do that first and then >> if we got a bunch of other sections in there that we can, >> you know, assign to somebody else, then let's roll, right? >> But if that's the only thing we got to really hash through as a group, then let's just hash it out and be done. >> Yeah. >> I mean, we technically don't even need a handbook, >> right? I mean, you should be following your policies and you're following your rules. >> But again, we >> we all walked into this and didn't know half the crap, >> but we agreed to we as a group decided that we wanted to finish a uh finish a handbook by 2026. >> So, let's just do >> So, who wants to be in charge of it? >> I I heard a compromise that I can get behind. >> What's a compromise? which is we start with policies >> and just make sure that we're all on the same page of like procedural things. You mean the 200 series policies and not the handbook? Because they're two separate things. That's >> No, he said the procedural operations SOPs for the handbook, >> how board whatever whatever the section is that says we're going to operate. How this is how we're going to operate. That's the part that we're going to have to hash out anyway. And the rest of it's going to be, you know, more or less >> like fill in. >> Yeah. >> If it's just off the template or, you know, somebody has to put in here's the history of Lakeville schools. >> We don't have to do that. We can assign that. >> Can we pause on the handbook and maybe review the 200 series policies as a board first because that might feed into how the policy how the handbook SOPs are written out. >> That isn't on the agenda, is it? I thought the agenda was to talk about the goals and the goal was to do a schoolboard handbook. >> I haven't seen anything come through from the policy committee for >> we have policy review on there too. So >> um yeah, and this is what you're talking about. I mean, I do think the policies drive a lot of this and our SOPs. The question is, I mean, what additional detail would you add, you know, to the policies that would be that would go into the handbook? >> Well, I think looking at Oh, go ahead. >> It's two separate things. You don't want to put your procedures in policy because every board is going to change it and then you have to change a policy every time. These are like procedures that are not policy that talk about how you want to run your board. Procedures are totally different than policy. You don't want to put like like we have our policies. That's fine. Yeah. >> These are just like basic procedures like who sets the agenda like how what's the order of the agenda. Now the order of the agenda is in policy but you know sets the agenda is in policy too. >> Correct. Right. So >> help me help me out on what kind of procedures you're talking about that we need to discuss. A hammer's gut. >> I think um going to what Paul said, like looking at one I I have not looked at the MSB templates, so I have to admit that I'm um ignorant there. looking at like 196s and I just came across this the other day. Um I feel like they do a good job and maybe this is what the template does so forgive me but of merging citing their district policies in relation to things like agenda procedures, consent agenda, um description of funds, etc. And then there's things like duties of the board, trainings, learning how to do the job, board elect like, and then they link to different resources. And so I feel like it is handy for an incoming board member to receive something like this where it's kind of all packaged even though yes, we have like the 200 series or 400 series or whatever. I mean, let's be honest, have we all read all the policies? I I certainly have not yet. Right. So, um, this is a it's like a summary that then links to the full policy, and I think that is helpful to onboard people quicker, um, than having nothing. >> Well, some of that isn't in our policies either. So, >> correct. >> Right. Yeah. >> I I'm not opposed to the handbook. I just want to make sure I'm clear on that. What I'm what I'm suggesting is that there are things in the handbook that might already be in the policies and then ideally >> if the 200 series policies is what ought to be used to guide how a school board functions and if we haven't had an opportunity to review it uh um and and generally my first year and the second year we we we never really got to it. If we as a board review the 200 series policy so that you all feel comfortable what's in it. Is there any edits that you want to make? Probably not. But it we review it almost like annually and then that will feed into I think that would be a good baseline to how we do the handbook. Where I just want to be careful is that we're starting creating SOPs and procedures and XYZ. But then if we don't reference back to the policies or the board doesn't understand the policies actually contradict what you're trying to do as an SOP, then you may want to update the policy. So again, the intent is get grounded with the 200 series. Uh know what who creates the agenda because that's in policy. Know what how we how our board operates leveraging Robert's rules because that's in policy. But the tacticals and the how-tos or whatever you want to call it. We have meetings on Tuesdays at 6 p.m. uh and and we make edits if it's different from 9:17 or election day or XYZ. Those things can go into the handbook. So that but but again you need to you need to have that baseline of >> what's in the policies first. But so that that's my recommendation. >> We're operating under that already. >> Yeah. I don't I don't agree like I'm looking at like the the template for the MSB has and it's like working as a board team duties of the board governance model standards for board leadership attributes of high performing board teams board self evaluation. >> That sounds exactly like what one is. the superintendent, duties of the superintendent, how do you want to evaluate the superintendent, board communication guide, board meetings and governance, meetings of the board, types of meetings, open meeting law, closed meetings. Um, all of these things are just standard operating procedures. They're not policies. >> Well, we would have to consult policy as we're going. Like that's where it would seem like >> like 196 has a paragraph about agenda procedure and it links to their policy. Like it's a short paragraph and then the full policy is linked. Yeah, >> we did 200 last year and we updated it. >> So, >> so 200 was updated. >> Yeah, >> it was updated December. >> It was updated in December and I think it was very push it through just to say that it was updated with the assumption that way >> the new board members would come in and they would review it together and are there things that you want to change as well cuz we were we had like three people leaving. So, >> it was updated as one of the people who was updating them. It was >> And you were part of that too. >> No, he wasn't. >> Oh, did he? He was backed up. >> No, he backed up. But we updated it so that we could make sure that it was legally >> compliant. As the new board members were coming on that it was compliant with legal statute updates and all of that. >> While it was compliant with legal, it doesn't make it doesn't have a the Lakeville school school board lens on it and and just because their policies uh recommended by MSBA, it's not the source of truth. MSBA's stuff is not the source of truth. Okay? like they are they are guidelines, recommendations. It is up to the school boards who to uh to decide what they want to keep, what they don't want to keep, make edits that are tailored to our district and how we want to operate. >> That has been done. I mean, we did do that and we did make changes. >> And not to get ahead like put the horse before the cart here, but um wait, wrong cart before the horse. Whatever. I get what you're cart. It's been a long day. um in the sense like we're not talking about policy, but I think one suggestion for the policy committee is to get all of our policies up to state uh statute because there's a lot of things that are um not and then we could go back and start doing the finesse of the Lakeville schools spin on it. But like let's just get compliant first so we can avoid >> potential lawsuits and then >> well the 200 series is compliant. Um, well, yeah, maybe that one, but there's there's a whole So, what I'm saying is like those have been updated >> recently to Brett's point and then but there's many that haven't. So, I think the priority of policy should be getting everything compliant and then we can go back and start. >> But just to I just the only point I want to make is that previous boards have put a lightful lens on it. It might not be the lot of them don't have >> boards >> like when I look at the policies on there like a lot of our policies like >> good >> even say like like the template language is still in the the document. >> Well, but there has to be reason to go >> remove this once she's approved. >> It says like remove this when you figure out what you want to do basically. And that's like that's what it says. >> Sure. That should be taken out. Yes. Agreed. But but yes, I >> curious what is the policy group doing right now? the policy. >> We are reworking our meeting times by a lot of effort of Amber. >> So >> we're going to start meeting at one Friday a month. >> We're not functional right now is what we're saying. >> Okay. So >> the policy committee is not actually >> I don't think we've met in like three or four months. >> Okay. >> So even though this is an important subject, should we prioritize? I mean we've got what 10 8 10 12 whatever many goals here. I mean, shouldn't you know, superintendent evaluation, metrics, dashboard, um, you know, some of the other things that are on here, I'm not going to read down the whole list, but my point is there are a couple that we should push to the front. I'm not saying the handbook isn't important, but there are a couple that we should push to the front and really focus on to make sure we get done first or right away >> and and make sure the handbook gets done. But I I I would hate to see us working on handbooks and not do Michael's evaluation and not do the metrics on the dashboard properly and yada yada yada. >> Yeah. I mean these are just things that are completely in our lap. I mean the handbook is right. It's not like we can say hey district go draft a handbook. So that's why I was focusing on that. The other ones, you know, we require the, you know, collaboration with the district, you know, to provide information and we will, you know, once we get target goals from the district, which is coming up here soon, then we'll, you know, establish that. So, one will be done. >> Um, the next topic for our discussion is superintendent evaluation. So, we'll get there and again, that's on us, >> right? >> Um, boundary changes require a district um district information. Uh the the next one, the work with the district to support the education efforts. That one is on us. Um training for board members, you know, will happen as we yeah work them in policy review that we Yeah. Again, so I mean I just pointed out the school handbook because it's on the top of the list here. Um and it's completely within our control as far as how we want how we want to get that done. I guess my my concern is if we just say, well, we're just going to focus on operating procedures, we might never have a handbook. you know, we get bogged down in that. um which again I do think it's important that we talk about those but I wouldn't mind having like a framework whether it's MSBA one or we borrow a couple examples from another district and then you know have that ready to go and then we start talking about individual sections such as operating procedures just to move it along so we have something we're working from as opposed to saying like hey let's just talk about this one issue and then maybe you know we'll have a handbook at some point in time. um >> this part that seems reasonable to kind of take a section by section approach in a gradual way. >> If and if we had a smaller group, they could say, "Well, this is something that we need to talk about this section before we can draft it. I mean, we can do it at meetings. It's just going to take longer, right? >> Can we do it at a session like this and then just vote on it once we're done?" >> Well, I mean, if we want to put the whole thing together >> as a group, we could. I don't know that that's the most efficient way because like I said there's probably >> there's there's communication uh so far about one section that we all need to go through apparently. So that >> to your point if that is does everybody agree that that's a section we should all like walk through then maybe just let's do that first >> whatever section the SOPs are >> well you have to identify right so my guess is if you pull up a handbook from 196 for instance or whatever >> a copy of the template >> yeah I mean and I have the template up >> there's obviously others >> 60 to 70% is probably going to be stuff we're not going to disagree on right it's just going to normal stuff like okay informational and then it's the 30 to 40% or whatever it's going to be that we want to go through >> correct >> so I guess my ask I mean is there a subset of this group that's willing to work together to create that kind of lake bill form template leaving out the areas that we want to discuss not that we can't discuss everything but maybe just forming the base to work from >> I nominate you and Amber I appreciate that, Brian, that you have confidence in me. I feel like with policy, I would rather not take this on too. >> I think I will sit with Amber and we'll focus on different policy. >> I was going to say I don't think it should be people on policy committee. So, >> yeah, I'll help out. Who else wants to do it? >> I'm happy to do it. >> You want to do it, Carly? >> Sure. >> Okay. Brett, Kim, no. I mean, we can't have four. So, if you need three, I'll shake your head. No. >> Yeah, I was just I was asking either one of you. >> So, we'll just task you three with letting us know >> who three. Those two don't want to. >> But Brett said he now call Brett will >> we're going to have to kick you off policy if you jump on that one. Um, >> well, we're first. I think it might be helpful just to first have one session or in one of our meetings just to talk about something that is more of the procedural stuff, see how it goes. >> Sure. >> Because it might be something that we get through fairly quickly as a group and we might not think that we need to >> we might say, "Oh, that section went fast. We can do three of them next time." >> Sure. >> You know, >> um like let's just see how it goes. And let me just let's hop back there because I I didn't Kim I was asking like so what are you thinking are like the procedural things that we'll need to discuss >> so >> that aren't that aren't policy driven >> that aren't policy driven um mentorship for professional development um I think some of the things that we talk about of duties of the board so um committees like I feel like that's not really really sound on like if we attend the the councils, if we don't attend the councils. Um I think that needs to be discussed. The schoolboard self-evaluation um superintendent process like another thing that was really I don't want to say like controversial, but it really kind of ended up being that way was what do you do when a school board member resigns and what process does the board want to follow to either appoint someone or have an election? Right? like we don't have a process for that. So then it's kind of making it up in the moment. >> So making sure that we have those things like there's a process and a procedure in place so that when it occurs it's not such a I don't want to say >> I don't know what you guys had to go through. I just I just came in. you asked me questions and >> and then also like even with this superintendent evaluation process like we had to rewrite the rubric last time like there wasn't even a rubric like we just had to create one out of nowhere. um setting up like the check-ins for that. Like how often does the board want to do check-ins? When do we have timeline like when do we have that in place? Like it should be in place by August at the latest. Like those are the things that they're not in policy. They're parts they're duties of the board and we've never discussed it. And like I said, I really don't feel like a lot of these would be controversial. I just think that >> we should talk about it because I think everybody has a different thought on on what that could look like. Um, also like communication, that's a big one, too. Like >> our previous board did communication different than this board. So, >> which one is right and which way do we want to go? Because last time we had all communication going through the chair. This time we don't. Like board members can talk to whoever they want. What does the board want? I don't know. Like I don't know. So those I mean those are just different things that when I'm looking down the um >> the template of this like >> closed meetings like you know there's only so many options that you can have a closed meeting for. That's pretty straightforward. Open meeting law. That's straightforward. You know, >> the 196 one also has like some common situations like yeah, >> what do I do if I receive concerns from staff, student, parent or caregiver? And it outlines like what you would do with each >> type of stakeholder or >> what do I do if I receive concerns via email? And it's very clear about like not ceing or not like just the >> the rules even like communication with the media like if the media contacts you what do you do >> that social media like how do you respond to some of those things because honestly like we had some pretty big things come up and I did have like things from the media and I just sent it to communications department right is that how this board wants to handle it I don't know we've never talked about it >> yeah so it's pretty wide ranging though I guess would be my concern And >> it is, but I mean you can take like a piece of it, right? And then just talk. >> How do we get that list if we don't have a a draft handbook that we're working from, right? >> We do like I I sent it to you like the template from MSBA like it's on there and there's like some framework in there. >> So we just work from the MSBA handbook is what you're saying. >> I would and maybe can I make a recommendation for those working on it? Maybe collect a few examples from peers and Mhm. >> Why is that? There you go. >> I like my >> just to see like what they have that we might miss or >> Mhm. >> So, where do we land? Are you are you are is Matt arbitrarily grabbing a topic and bringing it to the next meeting and we're going to discuss that particular topic of the SOP not to be what's going to happen? >> Well, a lot of what you're describing would be in various sections, >> right? >> But I mean, we could just pick one. That's where I think if there's three people that we're like, "Hey, we're doing a handbook. These are areas that we think the board should talk about, you can let me know and we'll slap it on the agenda." >> Should that be the the next step for us? We we have a conversation about it and say, "All right, we're going to tackle these three things and see how it goes. If it's chaos, then we'll >> So given that given that there are three members of the board that are meeting and we are tasking you as a committee, you would have to go through Kim Ellson and make sure that those meetings are announced and that you're meeting at the district office so people can attend if they want to. >> Is that a form? Is that a formal committee if three people? >> Yes, you have to do it. >> Is that what it is? >> I was going to say I think we have to pick like >> should we break it down to two? >> Yeah. I mean, can you go look at your telephone? >> When you're a committee of the board, you have to even if it's >> So, this isn't a formal there is no formal committee that's being formed. I mean, we're Paul and Carly, can do you guys want to just go take a look at it? >> Why would you care if the public came? >> I mean, >> it's convenience for gathering. >> Doesn't know that I want to though. Do we have to do it? >> Do you have to do it? can't do a zoom or can you just say start a Google doc and start >> well but I mean you're a public servant it's not convenience it's transparency for the public so even if you're a community >> you were asking why do we have why does it matter if it's committee and I just said it's it's efficiency of meeting >> correct yes >> because you should have like someone who's chairing that making sure that you're following an agenda and a process >> so I don't know um >> so we haven't formed it's not an official committee because we didn't actually vote on forming a committee if Paul and Carly want to take a look at and >> we don't have to vote on and decide on what you want to do. And if you want to bring topics forward, you guys can bring topics forward. Eventually, we'll come back to the broader board as a whole for us to review and discuss and that transparency will still public transparency. >> Yeah, we'll have it recorded and all that good. >> It's still a committee, so you still have to >> I'm not sure what they're like right here. I'm not sure. So, let we'll look into it before you guys get rolling so quickly. Okay. But thank you for your willingness to take on that task. >> Um, >> thanks Brett. Thanks Paul. Thanks Carly. >> I'm just upset Brett didn't bring more candy. >> Just kidding. >> Let's hop over Let's hop over superintendent board valuations because we're going to get that later. Um, approve boundary changes. So, we're going to discuss that later this year once we get more information from the district. uh work with the district to support the education efforts of the community on the levy renewal. Um >> no thank you. >> This is something that's on us. Uh Carly and I have done our part. So then you guys are all up. >> There was an email sent today. >> Well, I know I've seen Amber at a couple of the presentations. >> You did a great job. I saw a lot of um >> well that was yesterday's thing at Kenwood Trails wasn't that but I know Carly you two did the the uh >> long video and then we clipped that out so thank you for that. Just want to say that again >> less time than I would have and probably could have taken more time. >> Yeah. Um, we did get the email today from another Amber, the other Amber >> who I ran into at um, uh, Lake Marian's family night and she was at a table like passing out the information. I was like, I didn't even >> know that. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Um, I think it's a great idea. What she sent out is having board members at uh, parent teacher conferences. >> It's really hard to find volunteers to do that. So, if you have even time to do one, it really helps. Yeah, >> it's hard to get the one there. >> I think it's received an email for a quote. I don't know if you guys received that >> from who? >> Someone asked for a quote or a few sentences in support of >> Oh, can we don't know that? >> I didn't call. >> I don't know. >> I don't know if we can as a >> as as MSBA made it very specific. You can say it as a community member and me I can say it as a candidate but not as current board member. >> So >> I may have sent a quote. >> You can do a quote as long as you're not telling people how to vote. >> You can be >> I think it was I think it was I think they were asking for it. >> You were. >> I kind of was. So I said you can't quote me as school board member. You can quote me as Lakeville parent and >> um >> candidate. >> Are there any? So we have October 13th is another the next presentation I think. >> Um we there there were what five people there be besides us at the last one. >> Oh I think we were the five. >> We made it five. >> So >> I don't know if that well attended. >> There were two there were four others. >> Six. >> So I don't know if that's the most effective use of our port time and uh supporting the education effort. I I do think the PTO or the parent teacher conferences would be a great opportunity if people have time. Any other thoughts on what you can do? >> Talk to your neighbors. >> You can go sign up at Rotary or Lions and talk to them. >> They love that. >> They're going to do that. >> I've already done that. But you guys can do it, too. >> You just have a different spin on it. >> Brett and I spoke with a group. That was interesting. >> Oh, yeah. top way off. >> If anybody else wants to throw other ideas out there though um or opportunities via email >> because that's coming up here soon too. >> Does anybody read the paper anymore now that it's >> the readership's way down? Um I don't read the paper. Yeah, >> I know. I want to say last year I saw uh I I'll get with Grace, but I think the the Morris Leatherman study did a look at how our our residents or constituencies or whatever you want to call the community um assimilates news. And I know I want to say in 2015 when we did the original this original levy it was the paper it's like 80 something%. >> Well now you have to pay. >> Yeah. Now you have to pay and so I think it's kind of flipped and it's more social media. >> Well we went out to the last one we went some of us went to the senior center and that was also very low attendance. So I do think it's hard to get people coming in person. Um, so I wonder if I I do think they've been doing the communications department has been doing a wonderful job getting things out on their social media, but I also wonder if there's just some opportunity for virtual um connection for some of these it when you do the I didn't think there was that option for >> it's recorded video. >> And just so make and just to make sure I understand like it is the district's position that we can't be for or against. we can only share. Here's what we need. Here's what the money is for. Go vote on November 4th and you decide if you want to spend that money on that. >> Essentially correct. But >> uh as a school board, >> we have we are in the same position as well, right? We say this is what but as >> when we're in our board capacity. >> In our board capacity. So in this meeting, we can't say go vote or don't go vote. This is what it is. And so we as a board have voted to approve for the levy to go out to the community to decide >> if they want to allocate 4 million continue to pay $4 million or not. Now as individuals we can decide, hey, do we want to put a yard sign up? Do we want to go to meetings? >> Do we want to do individual social media posts? And so when I see work with the district to support the education efforts of the levy, I don't know how much I mean we can go out there and say here's what it is and that's it. >> We go to a chamber event and say here's what it is and that's it. But I would look to the to the administration and the district like this is like the communications this is your arm >> and the bulk of the communications ought to be within the district's purview and scope of responsibility. That is my interpretation. >> Getting it beyond like one of the challenges is really getting it beyond the district though like in terms I don't mean to say beyond the district beyond um people who are connected to the schools. So um getting out to different like Rotary or chamber um senior center other communities that just means we're getting that because there's a lot of misinformation that circulates around these kinds of things or people have opinions that aren't necessarily well thought. Is that the board's responsibility or is that the district's responsibility to make sure that they that the district is communicating to the appropriate stakeholders within our community? >> It's everybody's opinion. >> I mean, responsibilities. >> Yeah. Again, is it our statutory obligation? Probably not. But is it good to get out there and I mean, it's community engagement, right? um people are going to see Brian Thompson and like, "Hey, I'll go talk to Brian Thompson about the levy >> renewal, you know, as opposed to, you know, just a random person." >> So, there's probably more credibility when you're speaking about something. >> There's a large part of our community that's older and not part of the schools. >> So, they have to figure out how to get the string out there. But I believe our um teaching uh like EML and maybe leaves are active in tableabling as well for information not taking a position. >> Yep. They do a great job with that. >> Yeah. >> Like at football games and >> Yeah. And there are little things. I mean I had I'm kind of I've been stopped at a gas station about the video, you know, just by random person. I was like, "Oh, okay." Um >> they want your autograph. >> But no Carly's autograph. >> Yeah. Right. >> Um, but it's interesting cuz things come out and people hear that and they're like, "Oh, and it's just providing them information like you're still going to need that. Use those resources, but you just won't have the money anymore, right?" And and just little tidbits that people pick up, uh, you know, as you can share the information. So, >> I still love talking about keeping us in a steady state for another year. >> Maintain where we're at. We have a budget in place. It would not require a reduction of that budget. >> We can keep on the path that we're on with the objectives that we've already set, the goals that we've set. >> It's it again fiduciary responsibility to spend the money wisely and do the best we can with it. >> But we have a bunch of other initiatives that we've already talked about and we're trying to accomplish. And to take a $4 million hit is not an easy task. So, you know, we want to try to get the unassigned fund balance up to 10%. Well, you take a $4 million hit and still have to cover a bunch of that cost. We're not going to make a lot of progress on that next year. So, again, it's there there's multiple ways to to provide the messaging and I I've had I don't know. I've personally had good res, you know, resonation. It's not the right word. people have resonated well to the concept of like, hey, we're we're trying to stay steady state. We're not asking for new taxes. We're trying to just keep what we had over the last two years and maintain that budget level. Like that's what we're really asking for. Like don't take anything away from us. We're not asking for more. We're asking you to maintain right now. Like that's that's what we want. So >> yeah. So again, share any ideas that come up. >> I think one thing that's been asked um of me is like if um on social, like if you can like the school district posts, if you're willing to repost it on your own. Um so not creating new content, but just amplifying, >> helping the algorithm. >> I'm not sharing these videos that we did personal page. >> We can share them. We can share them. >> It's come up like 12 times. I think I liked it every time. No thanks. But I do I do like them. >> They're nice. Yeah. >> Yes. I just mean I like them like them. >> Don't want to sit on my person. >> All right. Uh moving on. Schedule training for board members. This is something that we've discussed with Kim um about getting another group training going at some point in time soon. Um so that again that will be ongoing. I'd like to have parliamentary training within the next 30 days if that's possible. >> I don't know if that's possible, but I mean, we could pay we'd be paying somebody to come in. >> Yeah. Maybe by end of year, maybe within the next 60 days or so. I mean, it'd be good to get a refresher uh just to make sure that we're all aligned and we all are in sync with procedures and rules and and so forth. >> Do we need to pay someone to do that or can we just educate ourselves? >> You'd have to pay someone typically. I think we should pay someone. >> Okay. >> If you want a like a MSBA, is is that acceptable? I mean, we could certainly reach out and um >> or would it just come up as part of the handbook review? >> Didn't love the last MSBA one that just kept saying remember your policy governance, policy governance. Like we that >> message I wouldn't want I wouldn't want to bring MSBA in for that kind of training. I would like to bring in someone who understands parliamentary procedure that has a non school board lens. It's like how do you run a meeting leveraging parliamentary procedure? What is point of privilege, point of information t you know I like to you know make a table whatever the topic. it would be good to get a refresher and while I appreciate it being in the handbook and I think that could be a supplemental artifact but uh you know just reading it doesn't really give you that experience and so it would be ideal in my mind to have some sort of individual who is a facilitator maybe it's an hour maybe it's three 1-hour sessions I don't know and I'm not saying they need to come to a meeting but I think as a whole if we all all align that if we vote and somebody says division what does that mean does that mean that that means is that everyone has to vote with a roll call vote. You know, it's not, you know, it may be three yes or, you know, be six yeses and one no and someone can still say division and and then I mean those are some parliamentary procedurals things that I think it would be helpful for all of us to know and then >> yeah I wouldn't have >> they don't really have a Robert's rules one. Do you think our lawyers would know some? >> I mean, our lawyers would do it. They would come in, but you're going to pay, >> but there's got to be a parliamentary like third party vendor that would charge, hey, I'll do it for a couple hundred bucks. I'm like, cool, come on in. >> I'm sure Judy Keller works for a place. >> Is there a teacher here who teaches civics that that >> I'll see what I can find. Uh >> there there are parliamentary folks that actually get there is a certification that you have to get to be like a parliamentary certified X XYZ. >> Okay. >> I mean there there are other board like MSBA recommended trainings though too. Um >> so then I guess the question is how do you prioritize between all of them that are out there? So >> fees slash perceived credibility. >> No, I'm saying like which topic do you want to >> which topic do you want to hit? >> Oh, you're talking about schedule trainings for board members because it is pretty broad. So when we say training now we talk about >> Can I go back to one thing about the levy? I found this this resource I found helpful before and I can send this but it said basically board members can write letters to the editor advocating for passage or defeat of the referendum. Um, so and you can also make phone calls just not on a school district phone call advocating one way or another. Um, you can have yard signs. So I think we would be able to give a statement to the people who emailed if you're interested in doing so. >> Um, it just cannot be using district resources. So >> don't send it from your email tablet or Yeah. or from the school email. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Which I think that person contacted all of us at our school. >> Yeah. So maybe just write to them and say >> oops >> there is a Minnesota State Association of Parliamentarians >> that provides parliamentary training and that would probably be a good one to reach out to. >> Well so one thing to consider I guess this could be for um handbook wise but we used to do a monthly board development >> monthly. We had three meetings this month for a long time. Full year. >> Yeah, the first year for sure. And then we kind of cut it down after that. >> So I guess depending on what trainings you think we could go by monthly or something. But I think if you want to if you create space for that, that's where we're going to fill it with specific things that we think we need to target. Mhm. >> All right. Um, school district policies. Do you think we talked about this enough? >> I do. >> Yeah. Just so you know, we did have um MSBA went through our policies and kind of categorized and identify the policies that might need more attention. um >> they did an audit and prioritize >> and so that will help kind of prioritize our review moving forward >> and that wasn't that long ago but long enough ago where Yeah. >> Yeah. So there was also hope that the new attorney would be able to assist with all this too. Staff attorney >> hope lives on. >> Yeah. >> But we're not waiting for that. And again I appreciate Amber your efforts to push matters along. um perform an assessment and review of the strategic strategic plan by spring of 2026. Um it seems a ways out, but I know it'll come sooner than later. Do we just want to schedule something maybe early 2026 to just go over the strategic plan and discuss it as a board? >> Yeah. What is an assessment? We're going to, my understanding is we're going to assess whether or not we need to um revise and update the strategic plan or if it's good to go. >> The assessment would just be like our each individual board member's opinion about where we're kind of at. >> Like do we want to invest the time in revising this >> whole process? >> Mhm. >> Okay. So, so I want to take a more of a um higher level view of this because when I think about uh annual planning, corporate planning for the following years of money being needed, resource staff initiatives and so forth, how I'm envisioning is that ideally for a school district, we should be starting to think about what kind of initiative initiatives or things that are important for us for the following school year, probably in Q4 of this year. So October, November, December as a board, we should be having strategy discussions um uh prioritization discussions around things that are important to us that we would like to have implemented or be implemented by the following school year. that would give the superintendent time in January and February to align any budget reallocations that might be needed as well as staffing implications from March and April. Uh and then any implementation that need to be done over the summer for those things to materialize starting in September. and then whatever uh as that get gets kicked off all those things and all those projects or whatever uh would would would uh would materialize in the next school year. And so if we are looking at reviewing the strategic plan um it might make sense for us to do that sooner because some of the things that we might find as prior prior priority uh or strategic priorities they may um ladder up to that strategic plan or they may not. and and so I think it would be ideal for us to start thinking what do we want next year to look like or things that we want to accomplish at the next school year and be able to have those conversations now so that we can be proactive and if the strategic plan is a component of that then then we should be doing that sooner versus waiting until May of 2026. Does that make sense? It's going to be well it's going to the only thing I guess I want us to think about is like what is all on our plate in this coming year just because if we have boundary adjust depending on how we're going to go about boundary adjustments if we have a really comprehensive plan that was similar to last round >> I don't think we should be doing that sorry my opinion would be that's a lot for us to do that and total revision of the strategic plan that also involves community staff involvement >> in a in a time and we may not be doing a a massive overhaul of the strategic plan. I think what I'm suggesting is I think that needs to be re at least reviewed and looked at >> and and whatever we want to start planning for. So eventually the band has to get ripped off where we have to be 9 to 12 months ahead. >> That's where we need to get to. And so I get we have all of these >> handbooks and boundaries and levies. Like all that stuff comes up, but if we're not thinking ahead, we're always going to be in the exact same scenario. >> 100% support. I just think that if we decide this fall, >> let's overhaul the strategic plan. >> Yeah, >> that's going to be >> Yeah, >> I don't know that we should be doing that at this I was more saying like perhaps this is we could certainly do some tweaking or something this year, but I feel like >> if we're really going to consider a significant revision potentially, >> I would want to wait until >> That's right. >> and that goes back Go ahead, Matt. >> Oh, go ahead. Uh, and that goes back to my comment earlier about prioritization. Brian, you're absolutely right. There's got to be enough lead time to give somebody a directive that's going to move an entire strategic plan. Yes. But the other thing is, Carly, you just said, well, but what if we want to do redistric redistricting? Um, again, it comes back to should we not prioritize these so that we know what we want to focus on because we can't do all of these at the same time as you all know because it's it'll be chaos >> and we won't get them done. >> I agree. >> Superintendent B. >> Well, we are kind of doing >> all these things. That's good. >> There's bell times. >> Graduation. Does that move? >> Boundary adjustments. facilities. Those are all those are all driven by um some of the you know they they just distill out from some of these. Some of these are uh RFIs. Uh the TNL realignment is >> what's bell times? >> Uh well every about every 3 years some place from the board says we need to change our bell times which we we've looked at this pro. Oh, I forgot the seven period day. wanted middle school hours to start later in the day, earlier in the day. I don't remember this board conversation. >> I don't think it was a board conversation. >> Back channel and maybe previous conver. >> It's been an RFI to me. >> Uh and it wasn't new. I've we've looked at this with a four tier bus system. You have to essentially break that and go to some other >> design that would fit within that four tier system. So that's the first part of the Rubik's cube. If you say, "Okay, I don't we can bust the four tier system," then you got to pay more money to transport the kids. And most boards in the past have said, "Yeah, we ain't doing that." >> Um, but that doesn't mean it's not worth exploring again. So I'm just these are the things that I know we're tracking and preparing staff reporting on for consideration which are >> strategic changes to >> I just want to make sure that your list is coming from a board consensus rather than individual RFIs. So that's all >> that's fair. Um and I know this is anal I'm absolutely not pushing back on that. Um I'm trying to respond to >> right >> so how it comes at >> so so then part of the Q4 planning session or strategy session or prioritization session things that we would like to see materialized for the next school year. I think those are the things that that um would contribute to some of these conversations and I think throughout the course of this year of 2025, I think maybe a bunch of things have been kicked in your direction, Superintendent Bowman, for uh for information gathering, but like this is where we would say these are our core things that we want to accomplish as a district, as a board and uh and additional information might be warranted to to gather so that we can make a more, you know, competent decision. in, you know, sometime in in Q1. >> And some I mean, it's the timing is different for everything though, too, because if we're going to take like an instructional change to um secondary or to high schools. >> Yeah. >> I mean, their program of studies comes out in November. So, they're putting that together now and that's for the following year. >> We're in Q1 right now, right? Well, there's calendar and business Q and then there's RQ that we work with that's school related and >> and then there's the fiscal year that's you know we we I try to line things in fiscal year. >> Uh but not all of the academic year can actually be that that cut and dry. And for sure I can't do the business >> cycle because it's not aligned to anything with school districts. It's >> just a big jigsaw puzzle. >> Yeah. I I think for me the biggest issue is that in Q4 of the of calendar year in October, November, December, I would really like us to get alignment on what are the big nuggets that we want to see changed or at least implemented or to be explored at next semester or the next school year because some of that might warrant uh an RFI where we we don't have the money but it's in the best interest of our district. And so then do we go out to levy next year or not? And so not knowing the things that are that are a priority for us and not knowing the cost of things like that. Do we need more mental health professionals? Do we need uh behavioral intervention in middle school? Like those cost more money. And so if I don't have visibility to that and we as a district don't plan ahead on that in partnership with the district, um I want to make sure that we're just planning ahead in preparation for next next November as well. So, >> can I get us back on track? Because I kind of feel like we're spinning and I'm looking at like it's 7 o'clock and I'm trying to make sure that we actually talk about the things that are on the agenda which um are how we are doing these board goals. And I I look I'm looking at like so we have a committee for the handbook. We already have the executive dashboard. Um we've talked about how to support the levy. Um I don't really think we came to any type of conclusion for the trainings. Are you going to look into some of that? >> Yeah, that's what I said. >> So, Matt's following up on that. Okay, perfect. And then, um, Amber's working on the policy committee, right? Getting that back up and running. >> Oh, yeah. With Matt and Brian. >> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, then the things that we have left to talk about. Um, and I thought just from listening, the strategic plan is kind of on hold for right now because we've got a lot on the plate, right? Is that what >> that was? The last I was just working my way down the list. And I'm just making sure that we're getting all of these things talked about. So >> that's kind of the the discussion though. >> That's a discussion we're having timing issue whether or not we should the strategic plan. >> Well, it just sounds like we're making he's talking about goals and and what he wants to focus on for next year, which is fine, but I just want to make sure we finish the things out of our on our list so that we can go on to the superintendent >> to the strategic plan though. So, if there's things that we need to change on the strategic plan >> and we're not thinking about it >> like >> sequentially. >> Yeah. How how are we sequencing those things out? So, like that's it's >> well, it says May 2026 on here, which um I kind of agree with Carly. I feel like we have a lot on our plate and maybe that's something that >> we push out until next year to talk about more when we can do a more robust process on that. Well, I think the the initial thing is an assessment of whether or not it even needs to be adjusted because and I guess that have you found that >> because you're aligning a lot of what you're operating is is directly under the strategic plan. I mean, I feel like my review is it's broad enough >> where you can kind of things under >> the way the staff works is um we we like to draw it back to what the strategic plan is and and that document. Um but to to uh Director Thompson's point, you know, we're we're in a constant loop of trying to do that >> uh alignment that he's talking about. Um but it's more of a I'm not I don't think it's haphazard. It doesn't feel haphazard. I know it's not consensus, so I I I acknowledge that. But um in order for the staff to do the work that's necessary, when I get it, I evaluate it and I have to get the staff moving because it takes time to figure these things out. And they are connected to two major things that I think the board has consensus on and that is the boundary changes and the fact that we have a long range facilities. that's going to drive a lot of things >> moving forward regardless of what we're other things we're trying to do. I think the TNL alignment realignment that we've already started um is also driving a lot of what we're trying to do. If we're trying to get into the conversation around um CE or PSO, those kinds of things, I would like some clarity on that. Um but I can work in in what we have and figure out where we need to go. But I don't know what the consensus process is for strategic realignment. So, I do I agree with Brian that if if we're going if you're going to do that work, doing it in October, November, December is probably most helpful so that I could get the staff moving. But I got them moving on a lot of these things that I think are going to come out anyway. The the boundary changes, the boundary changes and the facilities long range plan, those are huge drivers. the graduation. We have to we have to figure that out and and bring an answer or a recommendation to you because we don't want to lose Mary in the process of analysis paralysis that we can't have that that be that'd be the worst outcome. Um and some of the things that you might be working on are things that ideally should have been discussed last October, November, December so that you could have time to do that. And so uh so so again the strategic plan for this coming October no for the list here uh I have no I mean I have no concerns as reviewing it uh making edits to it if it makes sense or if there's a complete overhaul that's necessary we can punt that at another time but I think the the strategic plan review and and uh is the tactical stuff. Are there things that are on your list that we haven't discussed this year that we would like the district to consider or for us to put on our wish list for the following school year? And then does that mean it has an impact for a levy request, resource allocation, uh budget readjustments, and so forth? That's that's the part that's also missing. So when we just talk about the strategic plan and not talk about next year's things that are on our priority list, we're going to be at the exact same position next year talking about things that we want happening in the school year. And he's behind Aball. >> These I mean the strategic plan these are the goals that the board voted on, right? I mean there are initiatives that are on the list, you know, that we're going to get some um discussion on later. Um but again, we're talking about this right now because this is one of the board bills we voted on. It seems like we could have a review of it this fall just in terms of what are we going to do. >> Yeah. >> And then if we're like it looks great, >> nothing. If we say we want to to do something more comprehensive, we might decide to punt that like you're saying until next fall. >> So, and you talked about this, you brought this up at a meeting before um and which plays into this like the timing of everything like what is the uh the rhythm, right? Or the cadence and is that a board handbook thing? >> Yes. Yes. Absolutely. >> That we can that we can work in there. Like, hey, if we're going to be talking about these things, >> I think clarifying question with that real quick. So, when we're talking about um an evaluation of the strategic plan, are you talking this fall? because I want to know how that fits in from the superintendent because I feel like boundaries is a more pressing issue and I don't want his the staff taking like time to evaluate the strategic plan right now when I know that boundaries are such a pressing issue just based on the fact that um for example at High View Elementary where we're over capacity there um our special education students have lost access to the date gym because that's where art is right now. So those are really big concerns because that space was designed for that. And >> it's but it's not staff involvement this fall. It would just be like us. >> But his staff would need to do the evaluation of that. >> No, we're just saying we're we would have a conversation. >> We would have to your point though. I would rather kick it out till 2026 before we discuss it. Yeah. Boundaries is boundaries is clearly I mean it has to happen. It's not like an optional thing like we're going to discuss it and vote on it and we want to make sure we have enough time for that. >> So that would be priority. I think you said to me by February 26 a decision has to be made and I have to set the conditions to to allow >> priority. Absolutely. >> But you guys like I see eight nine things on this list and like I have 20 things on my list at my job. I mean these are goals that and initiatives that that that um that that we can do. I mean we we don't we're not the ones responsible doing them. I mean it's not just Bowman by himself. He's got a team of multiple folks and departments that do this. So looking at a list of like eight nine things and and not adding more like that's just >> that's just how this is how it works. >> Goals though, >> you know. Yeah. >> But I also feel like >> the business world is very different from education and it takes a lot of manpower and and work hours to get some of these things done. So, this may not look like a big list to you and what you deal with every day, but as an educator, I'm looking at this and I know the work that's going into this with the district office staff and with the superintendent. And we want to be careful of putting too much on the list when I want his staff focusing on things that we know are priorities like the boundaries and um making sure that we get that first because it takes a lot of manhour to answer all our questions to do all the information seeking that we've asked them to do to do all the presentations that we've asked them to do to realign teaching and learning which they've done. I mean that's a lot of work. I I don't want to I I think we're remiss if we say oh it's just a list of nine. It's a heavy list of nine, >> but all of the other things that we've already put on their plate, >> this is our this is our work. >> Yeah. >> Well, but there's still work with the district office staff. >> No. And I just I guess I'm saying if we if we decided we're not going to do anything, we're not going to look at the strategic plan until next fall. I'm fine with that. I don't think there's any if if we're to come and review it this fall. There's not an ounce of me that's going to say we need to do an overhaul anytime soon. I just think we have bigger fish to fry. But if we want to just lay eyes on it and talk about it this fall as a precursor to next fall, that's fine with me. >> I think it would be helpful to at least it could be on our own or at a meeting. We all commit to understanding it. I think there's been lots of conversations since January where it's clear that me, me included, I don't know what's all in the strategic plan. And so I think as new board members but also returning board members like we need to commit to understanding what it is so that I don't think we should jump to evaluation before >> that might be a good training cuz like we went through a training with Dr. McDonald and she talked through the strategic plan. It was really helpful. >> Just a suggestion. >> I just want to make sure we're all talking about the same thing. It's the one page mission the core values the goals and the vision like it's very broad I would say. I mean, I don't know that >> it has to be, right? Because there's so many things. >> But to that point, like if it's not broke, um, >> they'll fix it. >> We might we might review it and say, "Let's leave it alone for >> honestly, the only thing I would even consider touching would be the goals just because some of them have been quote unquote goals that have never been addressed. But but but as a board we should ask the question how much of the strategic plan has been accomplished >> and how I mean you know is there is there being success >> more evaluating progress >> but they're they're kind of ongoing goals though is it is it a mission statement or is it actually tactical initiative that we're trying to >> I think we need eventually I'm not saying next year is like we need that part of it like this is way too OD >> it needs to be um >> yeah it needs to go down to the tactical level >> I think >> but that's the that's the like at least how we have operated in the past is the strategic plan is the overarching >> I'm working on four I'm working the university strategic plan my own offices and our three reporting units and all of them would have targeted goals with measurable objectives and targets and we don't have that >> finish what I was saying sorry >> thank under that is what we decide on every year which is the district goals and the board goals. So the strategic plan should be overarching and we should be val in my opinion every year we should be establishing new targets and goals that are we moving toward the strategic plan. If the strategic plan ever feels out of place for like we have I mean some of it I don't think we're ever going to accomplish it's like an you know >> but every year we should have tactical goals. Well, I think that's to your point what you're saying is like the mission. Do we really want to change it? I think >> I think it's pretty good. I think the core values are pretty good. I like I said, the only thing is like stating the goals on there like to Amber's point like you said it too time bound like measurable like what are we actually trying you know is this a three-year goal? Is this a 12 year goal? >> You never know if you cross the finish section because then you know you start talking about the vision. I mean a collaborative learning environment for all students, families and staff where every person's belong every person belongs is valued and can succeed. What would we need to change? Like that is fine. Like the only thing is really do we think that within this strategic plan the goal section should be more tactical, more >> whatever. Superintendent, does do you like do your departments have like vision cards that they use that are attached to the strategic plan so we as a board can see that information? Yeah, but I think the metrics, yes, I I think though that to the point of the conversation around metrics, I mean the executive dashboard is a big step in that direction and all of those, but when we went went through it all, we >> tied it all back to the strategic plan and I think that fulfills that requirement and if we could get into the QBR iterative process. I think the other things like okay, you're not moving the needle here. what are the issues that are attendant and associated with that? Um and and then we focus on that conversation and does it mean we have to like we're underfunded. We need I don't know interventionists um how many do we need? Where do we need them? What does that cost? >> That kind of conversation is a seven period day. Another conversation around what does that cost us? Do we have the money? Do we go to the voters and ask them for the money? that kind of stuff. I mean, I think it's there. It's just organizing it into and that's why we were trying to tie it back to the strategic plan so it had some coherence to the strategic plan. Um, I know some people didn't like that, some people were okay with that. Um, but I'm always trying to ground it for my staff and ground it for the community because I know how they respond to that. Um the community effort behind the development of strategic plan was pretty robust and I want to maintain the efficacy of that even though inside of that you can change and the board composition change the focus change getting the right district metrics in place as a start for us. I think all those things align they align in my mind anyway. >> Um and I think we're on the right track. Uh it's just it it feels like it takes a little longer and it does take a little longer because we have two board meetings a month and uh trying to structure it within that is it's a little difficult but I think we're on the right track to do that and maintain our strategic go >> selfishly I was thinking okay good so then we can all say yeah we're kind of good with how it is right now so we can move on to your topic of >> well I think it can start >> I think it can wait till spring at least still okay if you want to do a detail. >> I'm fine. I mean, that's what it says. May it's operational. >> It's operational. We don't have to adjust it. >> Okay. >> If you want to move it out, I'm I'm fine supporting the May 2026 or whatever. But but I would think that >> that's our completion timeline to perform the assessment. Okay. >> But I would like to suggest as a board as to add another around >> um uh prioritization for next year. Like I like I feel like we've got to have that conversation now in and in and strategic plan though. >> Not for the strategic plan. >> You're talking about just schedule. >> I mean it could be a combination of um like what's on your wish list? What's on what are your priorities? Things that you've heard that you've heard when you were uh you know when you were being when you were campaigning like that what did what does the community want to see differently? And I think it's an opportunity for us to kind of hash out and share here's what I heard, here's what I want to see. uh because some of that stuff could feed into like are there things that we as a board agree that we would want to implement for next school year. And so I like I think we need to have that conversation in in this year. >> If but if it's implementation like if we're talking this November about a levy the next November, then it wouldn't go into effect until the following. >> Correct. Right. >> Goals though. >> Um well, so so these are board goals. I think when I know when I think of board goals, I think of things that are related to handbooks and policies and stuff like that. Uh we have yet to talk about district goals. And so what and so let me rephrase that district initiatives. >> Uh we've just finished uh district executive dashboards with exe with metrics. We ought to then discuss the uh is there a a goal or a target that we want from the baseline of those metrics. But that is still different from district initiatives. >> So we we will have a discussion on that. most likely before the end of the year because we did have that list that everyone sent everyone's things that they sent in >> that the district was going to provide an update on this is what's in process or where they're at cuz some of the things they're doing already. >> Yeah, I there are district initiatives that that that they're probably starting that can be done in this calendar or this school year and and it's really hard for us. We we probably wouldn't want to add more things to the plate for already for this year, but I think it's wise for us to start thinking about what kind of district initiatives for the following year. So give an example. So what you're saying is something like the discussion around a seven period day in secondary as opposed to six. Like if that is something that this board says we really should pursue and try to do for 2627. >> Yeah. >> Or would be the or 2728 if it has significant financial implications. >> We have to do something like that. Y and same with middle school scheduling like I mean if that's something that we want to do next fall I I don't know but but again we have to get alignment on what are key things that you're hearing from your from your community uh beyond the the executive dashboard targets that are >> but some of it is just even figuring out like well how much does this cost like do we even start that discussion because if it's $7 million it's like well maybe we don't want that >> I want a solid dome how much does that cost ahead I think >> you can have the >> once it >> for me I was going to mention that too. I don't think that's a bad conversation to have like what are things that we're hearing that the district might want to pursue or investigate. I also feel that when we set the targets with the metrics, the district leadership should figure out how do we hit those, right? And that will in a lot of cases be what what the initiatives are, right? And so we might have some ideas and we we should talk about those for sure. And a lot of this should probably be driven by the district um informing us what what would work well like we need an interventionist or we need to we need a seven period day or you know whatever and then we can discuss if that's a board decision that needs to be made or not. I do want to say maybe this is the the manual that's getting created or what but I am a little concerned with and I appreciate what you said superintendent Bowman about the list you have that we haven't discussed as a board. I didn't know I could email you things that I want to see happen and then they get added to a list that's investigated. It's it appears that some board members are doing that and so that's not how I I think I would recommend that we do things. I think this should be a more of a discussion or or Bowman you're suggesting things to us that you are pursuing. Um but I I I have felt that in the last like couple months that the process by which work is happening isn't um transparent as to to the board. Yeah. >> And so I don't want to be like surprised at the table that you're working on things that it's one pet project of a board member. And I'm not saying that's a bad idea, but um I just think it warrants board conversation before action is taken. >> Well, and I agree with that >> procedural stuff that we should be talking Well, and I I think that to Brian's point, like I like how he said like, "Let's have a discussion as a board on some of these questions that we want answers to." Um, because I I agree like I don't feel comfortable just emailing him and asking him questions. I mean, I do, but then I also like I really would like the consensus of the board on some of those things because you think of things that I don't think of and vice versa. Um, so I appreciate Brian's suggestion that we sit down and kind of talk through what are the things you want to know about and yeah what can we you know put for next year because I'm still wondering like about the replacement of Abbott and how that's going. So that's some that's a question that I would like answered. I will just say too that I did confirm with Superintendent Bowman and he can confirm as well that when questions come in, I mean that the goals or the priorities are still their priorities, right? They're not taking away time because I did want to make sure that like look, we are looking at boundaries first. These other questions aren't taking away that >> uh that distraction. And yeah, superintendent. Well, just to also be respect. I'm I'm sure >> there can be hours outside of the workday that go into these kinds of things and let's just I think we do have to agree like this is procedural things. How do things get to him? >> And if this board says every board member can email him whenever we want to >> versus do things get routed through the chair. >> Um that's that's >> that's a handbook question. >> That's what I mean. These are the kinds of procedural things that we haven't really >> Yeah. And well, I think the big the big question is then what warrants the district's time in reviewing. >> Right. >> Right. >> Yeah. We don't want them spending hours every week chasing our questions. like it's it should be they do have their major things they're working on and then it might be board directed kinds of like you're saying kind things that the board together is agreeing that we need pursuit on >> and also respectful of his time because superintendency is a pretty big job and some of my questions can wait >> well I'll just say this in the absence of of orders I will try to discern because I have to have the staff moving the district in a clear direction. So I do that as I hear what I hear and the emails I get. You can go in my office, you'll see them written on a board there. I've obviously articulated some here. I would welcome a different method, but I will not be paralyzed by non-consensus because we have to keep the football moving down the field. Then there's some really obvious things. The boundaries are obvious. I think facilities is pretty obvious, too. >> Yes. >> And the two are not the two are correlated. >> Money is tied to enrollment. Facilities is tied to enrollment. So that's a pretty big issue. And so anytime that I'm getting questions or RFIs around that kind of stuff, I'm I'm going to marry it to that and be able to keep things moving. Uh >> I I mean all of you I respect all of you and I want to be responsive to your concerns and I try to be. Um but yeah, it's I mean it's it the previous boards I worked with, they all had process and procedure. I'm just candidly going to tell you it wasn't pretty much followed. And so then it became so I learned I learned very quickly that >> you have to have a conversation with any one of with any one of you whether it's a text conversation or a phone call or whatever. I have to understand what you want and I do try to tie it to what I hear the board saying in different venues and keep the football moving down the field. So it's it is hard but I also know that's the work of a superintendent. I'm okay with that. it would be more efficient if there were consensus. It's very hard to get consensus on especially some controversial topics. >> So I understand that too. So I it's the truth is somewhere in the middle usually. Uh and I I try to figure out what that is to the best of my ability and I admit I'm not always perfect at it. >> Yeah. >> Are there a few topics right now that you're still in limbo on? like do we need to provide you consensus on anything specifically? >> That's a good question. >> Well, because I don't need it. I guess I can't say there's I mean I don't know if there's consensus around moving graduation. I don't know if there's consensus bell times. I don't think graduation moved. I don't I do these are these are nothing of that is new to me. >> This this has been reviewed. So, I don't understand why we're looking into that when one board member wants to move graduation. And I and I get your points, >> but >> it wouldn't be it wouldn't be a ch a decision without a board vote, right? So, >> I don't you don't want me like gatekeeping questions from Bowman, right? Whatever you send to me, you have a question of Bowman. I don't know that I should be gatekeeping it. Um, there should be a decision of the board before we do anything or make any change. >> I think you could be gatekeeping it. I I agree. I think you could be too but >> there >> really >> where there is I think >> your predecessors have to some extent but I mean >> but in fairness to the board chair when there's when there's been some friction or conflict there's been the go there's no policy right now that says I have that power or authority right >> it is actually a policy >> it's not a policy it's a procedure which again goes back to the handbook >> yeah so there's nothing right now that says I can do >> but Michael said nobody follows the handbook so Well, precedent says >> that's how it is. >> I I don't there's not there's not been I don't go around you. >> Yeah. No, people email me. They'll copy me on email, right? >> Every email I send. I mean, >> and I think the issue is a lot of these can a lot of these stop with the initial analysis of how much is this going to cost, right? >> Um and there there are other questions about graduation like >> attendance, how many people can fit in the stadium or in the auditorium, right? which again I think it would be a board decision if we were ever to make a change on that. So yeah, I don't think things are necessarily happening. I I understand the concern. Um and maybe we'll provide some guidance as a whole group. I mean do you want the chair to be the gatekeeper? Um >> I do. >> If there is, you got to have to procedure on it. But >> right now there's nothing saying that I have the right to stop any handbook. Well, >> I just think like if we took if we had a conversation around graduation, let's say because that's the example we're using. One board member is interested in changing it. If the rest of us are like, "No, it's good." >> Yeah. >> Why would we put staff time towards looking at alternatives? You know, like >> and I I'm not I'm not saying we shouldn't, Brian. Like I I respect why you're proposing it. >> Yeah. >> But again, it's one board member has raised an issue that no one else even has. >> It was It wasn't any I mean, we received a number of emails on it, too. >> Yeah. I think the question is how much time is it going to take >> to provide the initial like analysis on it right and if it's more than x amount of time >> then it's like then yeah it needs to come back to the board >> the only I the only thing I'll say about graduation is that last year was the worst experience I've had there because of all the construction >> well >> I'm only saying that we we didn't >> now we have two people >> we did get emails about it I'm saying but it might have been special but but I do think the point of like we don't need our superintendent in my mind should largely be spending their time executing what the board has set them to do. And so um >> the collective voice of the board. >> Yes. And so that's where if people have questions that really would take more than a brief amount of time that's feel like >> like if your staff are coming saying graduation needs to get changed. just a horrible that doesn't work for whatever reason. Yes, of but yeah. >> 100% agree. Like if if your staff development says that, hey, this is what we want to recommend making changes. Absolutely. And I think that's part of his purview is to say, hey, I am making I make these recommendations. Part of our purview is what do we hear from our community members saying, "Hey, I don't like what's going on in your schools." So, it's our job to advocate for things like that. And in the in this particular instance, I did send the notes and and said and I CCed you and CC the chair and the vice chair say hey what's the cost for graduation and what would be the level of effort if there is for if we brought it in-house can we even do it and that's kind of where things landed and so no decision no nothing like you you have to do it and that's kind of where it was and I think that was back in >> June when I sent that request >> doing data collection doing vendor uh uh inquiries to try to put together a presentation and a recommendation on that matter because it's come up before. >> This is not the first time and the first board to bring it up. It's not the first time people have complained. But the I can tell you already that when it was here and they did do the closed circuit TV scenarios, people were even more pissed. >> No, you can't do that. >> So, um we >> All right. I'm going to keep it. >> Is it possible? I mean, I think I think this start I think this conversation started with >> should the chair be the filter or should >> Michael get just a shotgun blast from everybody? And and we're in a debate now as to whether where we should have graduation. I I'm not sure we're ready to have a debate about where we should >> further vote of the board. We're staying the current course, right? >> Yeah. So, >> I think with the manual this will be something that will be discussed. we'll be discussing >> which is why like even if we have the small group this is the discussion that will have to happen >> but to the point of that that Brian is making and others have made is >> the question is a fair question to ask it >> one of my bosses asked me >> absolutely >> and the last time it was looked at was was when I was here before about 2019ish time has changed the world has changed changed. Does it make more sense to come back here? It's a fair question to ask and I owe a I owe an answer whether it's just to to Brian or to all of you. But I think I want to answer all of you on the matter because you may all be getting emails from constituents and it's a costbenefit analysis and other schools are doing it, but I also know other schools are stopping doing it too >> because they have other issues. >> I appreciate that, Michael. And I guess what my point is because we haven't discussed the procedure part of this. I'm operating under formal board precedent that I go through you to talk to you for the most part. >> Um I don't email you like projects. >> I don't set your precedent. >> Well, that's how >> most boards operate. >> That's how most boards operate. >> That is a true statement. >> And so I've worked with a lot of boards. >> I get it. I'm just saying. And so I didn't know that that seven of us should just email and we can do that. Like that can be the process too. I just we're not operating that way. >> That that's how that's how I've experienced it over the past couple years is I if I have a question I can ask the superintendent that we had previously >> directly and then I CC the chair and the vice chair when I've got a question. >> I can do that. >> I'll be honest. When I got questions for Will or Jack, I send him a note but a lot of times I'm like, "Hey, I don't need this today." you have pressing business >> go forth like hopefully I can have it before next week Tuesday type stuff but I try to not ask them anything >> urgent unless it's like oh wait now I need to know this for the meeting >> we'll explore that with the handbook ready for January >> I mean >> yeah again there's nothing right now that says the board chair controls this right no >> but it doesn't mean that you can't >> those procedures that we >> can't um yeah it I do. Again, we'll discuss it when we get there because there are definite downsides to that as well. If you're going to say the board chair is just going to >> Yeah. Which >> but there are ways >> I'm not saying I'd be in favor of that. I probably too. >> Well, as part of you just email themirectly designated group tackling this like should we do do we want to take a brief like okay does everybody kind of want the chair to gatekeep? Yes or no? >> No. >> No. >> Yes. I mean, you go to talk about that right now. I mean, I just feel like >> that was my plan two minutes ago. >> I wasn't talking about as an elected as an elected official. >> We know how to start. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Get the get the gap. I do want to make sure as an elected official, it is your responsibility and and and no one should geek in having conversations with the superintendent. period. Now, I would defer >> to the super as long as you're CCing the chair or the vice chair so that there's, you know, awareness of, you know, the emails that are going going sent. But I would I would assume the superintendent can discern if this is going to take 8 months to figure out and there's a heavy lift or he brings it back to the chair and say, "Hey, I've got these nine things that I need on the priority list. I can do these top two because it's pretty simple. It's just an RFI and these seven you guys need need to discuss." Yeah, >> but gate gatekeeping is not what we were hired to do or we were elected to opinion. >> Michael can tell us he can tell me like, "Hey, >> go tell Brian I'm not going to touch these things." Bring him up at a board meeting. >> Yeah, exactly. >> He's been around long enough. >> We can we can talk about this at >> later. All right. Uh, last one, focus on code ethics. That will come up before the board um at a future date. So, we'll address that. Paul 208. >> All right. Uh, we get to shift over to superintendent evaluation. Yeah. >> Um I provided uh a copy of the document that Kim had provided in the past uh this guy here, but then there's also this one that I dug up that I'm not sure. I believe this came from the prior board, too. It's kind of a check-in evaluation. I would >> we've never used that. >> Okay. I'd like to hear what you guys did in the past and then also get Superintendent Bowman's um >> just a quick statement on what he's experienced in the past and then kind of decide then we can chat about how we want to handle this moving forward. So our first year on the board, the superintendent hadn't evaluated the first year because they they wanted him to work on just getting to know the district, right? And then when we started in January, that would have been the second year and there was no evaluation system in place, which again is a procedure thing, right? And so we made we couldn't really do anything that year, but when we had our board um retreat in the summer, we just made an evaluation. Like we just kind of looked at the rubric, looked at the goals that we wanted to set for him, and we made um a rubric based on those goals with exemplary um meets expectations, not meeting ex or halfway, I think satisfactory, and then like not does not meet um based on those goals and then we kind of aligned it to the strategic plan and then we aligned it to our goals as a board and then we had two check-ins um and then the final one was in July when the board each board member submitted their like the the document filling out the rubric with where they rated him and then we had like close sessions about it and then the board chair provides like kind of like a one voice document. It takes in everybody's um information and kind of summarizes it for each goal area. Um so we don't really have a procedure in Lake Fellow that we follow. Each board's kind of done it differently. >> What do the what do the check-ins look like? >> So we just kind of um so what we do is like we go this the superintendent will provide um like an update at where he's at on u meeting those certain goals. And maybe one of the goals is finance. So, he's talking about, hey, I made this financial dashboard. I'm working with staff to make sure that we have the finance advisory committee. Um, we're working on, you know, getting together a package for a levy, yada yada yada, things like that. And then he'll kind of say like this is where I want to go for the rest of the year. And so then on our next check in, we'll talk about that goal again and see if like he's made any of those other progress that we had talked about before. So, it's just kind of like um it's not anything where we're rating him. It's just him giving us information at that point um based on where he's at for his goals. >> So this um superintendent evaluation tool, was this what you used at the end then in July? >> We used it all year, but I mean like when we rated him, we rated it on that's just what I made, but the one that we used with the previous superintendent was a rubric >> similar to that and then we rated each individual board member rated um we did it. It all went through the chair like so that so that people can be anonymous in doing that. >> Um and then the chair makes up a summary document of all >> July though. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> July >> there's a midyear check-in. >> Yeah, there's two check-ins and then the formal one in July. >> I guess I'm confused. Does the check-in still have you still do the rubric on the check-in or no? >> Well, we don't use the rubric, but the superintendent does just to tell us where he's at on those things. >> So, self evaluation, >> correct? So, it's a self it's a self >> okay >> the check-ins are kind of like just a self-evaluation where he's meeting with the board in a closed session saying this is where I'm at on my goals and then anytime the board meets with the superintendent in close session to go over um the evaluation then the next meeting the chair gives like a summary of basic summary you know protecting confidential information but yeah >> yeah in in fairness to superintendent Bowman um you know I think I asked the question a meeting or two ago to the the three board members that were here in the last board, you know, what when you signed the contract with Michael, what expectation did you what what did you give him that you wanted him to accomplish? And it sounded like there wasn't really anything solid. So, that being said, again, in fairness to Superintendent Bowman, I'm not sure how you evaluate him. I'm not sure how I evaluate him other than um nice guy and uh where do where do we go from here? And I'm being facitious, but the truth is I without giving him a specific accomplishment to do. I'm not sure how we can do this fairly. >> The first year we didn't do it because he wasn't um he was he was like in a temporary position like he wasn't >> on under contract. Yeah. >> Um, but like technically it should be very specific like this so he knows what the expectations are for each. >> Go ahead, >> Brian. Amber. >> Yes, sir. >> I was going to say I I hear what you're saying and I think I think I said this at a previous meeting, too, that the superintendent position is more or less the same in any school district. And so the the exact metrics that or targets that you're trying to hit might be different, right? But but the job is basically the same. And so I think looking at like this rubric, I think all of these things I could evaluate or someone could evaluate Michael on right now um in terms of where we're currently sitting as a district based on the information we've received from the district office like how operations are organized, how finance is being managed, and how student achievement is being worked on. Um, I feel like all three of those things are like big topics that Michael has reported to us like a lot about. >> Um, and I think it could I mean I'm not saying there can't there's certainly like goals to set for future evaluations, but I think you can still evaluate the performance. >> There's a job description, >> but doing I'm sorry. >> I think he was next, but >> Oh, go ahead, Mike. >> No, no, I think you're right. I mean, I think the evaluation is something that could be used because all school districts have a superintendent that does the same. I I think where um the validity of the results will vary because it's subjective. Uh there are no metrics, there are no goals. It's how do you feel as a school board member that that your superintendent is doing based on the nine months of experience that you've had with him thus far. And that's it. And so, um the previous board, we did not set metrics. we did not set goals or anything of that nature. And so um part of the executive dashboard uh part of the executive dashboard I think when we have established targets from the baseline would feed into the you know the superintendent evaluation but if we do an evaluation today it's going to be subjective and that's it. So if you feel or if I feel that 7 and a half% in the unfunded unassigned fund balance is is appropriate and someone might be 10. I mean, you're g I might give them a score of five and someone might give them a score of one. So, I just want to be mindful that the evaluation is is there. I don't know. Does that make sense? >> No, I hear that. >> So, but but we do need to figure out we can do an evaluation today or within the next week because it it won't be hard. But at least we have a subjective lens on how do we all feel at the time that is he performing well based on where it's at. But we do need to get very quickly uh what are the goals and metrics or things that we want him to accomplish between now and the end of next June so that those things can be something that we can >> base. And did you have a something? >> I was just going to say I'm interested in hearing from reports too on job performance. So we can evaluate like so we do this for the Dakota County Extension Committee. The chair solicits feedback from the committee and that's added, but the day-to-day staff also evaluate the director and I think that is really critical information for a a committee or a board to have in its evaluation process. >> 100% that those are part of 360 evaluations that we do. You get a review from your boss and a view from your colleagues. Uh and again, your colleagues, you know, contribute to how they work with you and again those are subjective as well. But as a superintendent uh from from my lens is that we've got to show a combination of both the subjective stuff and and the objective things and measurements that we can and we just don't have that at the moment. >> Yeah. Cuz and I'm curious on the check-ins too. Um were you guys providing feedback to the superintendent at the check-ins? >> Yeah. I I I don't think we didn't have goals for him. We had goals. We >> We had goals. >> Not for him. Not for him. not for him because he was under an interim role at the time, but the previous one we did um and we had a rubric where we rated and then every time we had a check-in, he filled out the rubric and kind of told us where he was at. >> District office, >> correct? That was at the end. At the end of the year, we had the district office staff um fill out um the same type of like survey on the superintendent and then um Carrie, I know that you're in the audience, but >> that was the year that the union didn't send out the staff survey, but we that's something that we have tapped into in the past. >> Yes. >> How how'd that go? >> They didn't do it that year. >> No, no. I'm saying that with the staff survey here for the district office. Oh, the executive um like I think HR sent it out. >> Is it pretty helpful? >> Yeah, I thought so because they pro they have a chance where they not only are rating but they provide written feedback and comments. >> So you'd create questions or some sort of rubric similar to what we would be using. Correct. The same exact one or just be tailored differently specific for the >> it was a little different like Kim Nelson would have that. >> All right. Um >> the only thing this is tricky I feel like for right now because we're I know I've been talking about cadence but we're off cadence. Do we need it done in July? Well, and that's where I'm like, do we need to check in kind of like what you're talking about first and then we establish what are I mean the metrics are coming out soon, right? And I mean that's going to that that's going to be the numbers behind the evaluation at the end of the year, right? how how's the school system and >> well some of it will be delayed >> for discussion like if you want to center his um evaluation around the performance of the district on those metrics like that's different than a rubric or things that the board has done in the past and again like I go back to >> this is why like that procedural thing is important because we shouldn't have to recreate the wheel like every year on a superintendent evaluation we should have like a framework that we use Yeah. And I think and this is what Brian's talking about no matter what though because we've we've added the objective piece like the hardcore objective. >> Correct. Have a dashboard now. >> Right. But we're also like he should have had this in July and so like this would have been the time we would have been having our first check-in and he doesn't even have his goals yet. So >> that's that's another thing I want to keep in mind. Like >> I know that he'll do whatever we ask him to but I also want to be like sensitive to >> Well, I think that was his point earlier too is we were already like or no that was Paul's point was like what are we evaluating them on because we haven't told them like hey we expect >> you know >> whatever we haven't given them any expectations really >> but there's still like I feel like what Amber said earlier too it's like my job performance evaluation I mean I have my own different in every system in terms of much of that is objectives I have my certain numbers I have to hit of course but >> well I mean we're not you We're not a lot of money. We're not financially. >> There are things that are easier to evaluate than other things. >> Like one could be like, is the referendum passed or not? Like that's a huge responsibility of a superintendent is to like secure successful not to put pressure on you, but >> secure successful levies, right? >> Well, one of the things that we had talked about was the unassigned fund balance because it was so important to us at that time because it was so low. making sure that that balance goes up. So, I mean, that's those are legitimate things. Yeah. >> Yeah. And >> financial is easier to nail down. >> Yeah. >> It's just more cuz he could be the most liked person, you know, in all of Lakeville and still be terrible at his job, right? So, that that's what you want to avoid and that's where the metrics come into play. If we were going to tie back the improve our teaching and learning practices and processes to increase student achievement, I mean, how do we tie that one to him right now? >> But then the metric is like he has re-evaluated teaching and learning and kind of >> reorganized that whole system. So it's not that he's not doing or not taking steps towards that. So, I mean that again is part of that conversation with >> I understand >> you can't do it all in a day, >> but how are you working towards the goals we've set? >> I get it. >> I'm just saying if you were to look at that and say hm how are we measuring that? >> That took nine months to get the actual metrics that we're looking at as the quote unquote collage of information for some level of academic achievement. like it took a long time to finally pull that from people and people had to be or people moved from positions, people left and all that kind of stuff. So >> and some of this stuff I mean standardsbased curriculum across all grade levels. I mean some of this stuff is going to take a little bit of time. I mean I' I'd like to say do it now boom but it Yeah. Well, I took those from like a discussion that the board had had on some of these things already and tried to add all >> that's that's a good thing, right? We should be evaluating them on the performance of this, but but then we have to acknowledge like some of this can't just be done like that, right? Some of it can >> and should be >> and we could. >> So, I don't do we need to break some of this stuff out into smaller like >> you could do this as a check-in right now. >> Well, we Well, see that's like part of the check-in process. so he can say like >> where he's at on some of those things and maybe like at the second check-in he comes back to us and he says, "Hey, I've been working on this all year. This is how far I am. Can we add this on to next year, too, because this is where I want to go?" Right? Like that's possible because the superintendent contract is three years. >> So, so if I may, does that evaluation equate to a salary increase? >> No, they have a contract. So this is just you're you're doing well, you're not doing well or you're doing okay. >> It's just so the superintendent is like clear on the board's direction and then he's held accountable to how the district is doing. >> There's no financial >> No, he's linked to that. >> Well, I mean, unless right >> which has happened, >> right? Which has happened. Okay. >> So, for the board's sake, >> next one. Do we want to to schedule a check-in where the superintendent can provide us an update of where he's at on things? >> Well, I think we need to give him goals first because otherwise he doesn't have anything he's checking in on. >> I mean, do you think you've been provided with sufficient goals for in our discussions to kind of I mean, again, a lot of the district goals are his goals because he's overseeing the implementation of all those things. >> Um, >> right. And I think a lot of I I'm just looking at number one, goal number one. I It's pretty specific in certain regards. I mean, and again, I think you could break some of these out. >> So, are we saying because I I think we certainly could do a formal evaluation or a check-in specifically with that? So, are we saying we would do a check-in right now going through these different categories and then we would do like a more kind of formal midyear >> next year >> in February or or January? When would it be? >> I think it is both. >> I I think I think Carly, if you did the the the check-in now seems reasonable and then as we establish what the targets are for the metrics, um let him have until next June and we do a more formal evaluation. I I think that's I think that's fair. >> Yeah. >> No, I'm just trying to understand like going forward when did we do like we should be doing like a midyear and an end of year. Right. >> So I think our first one was in like the end of November and then we did a second one the end of February and then we did the formal one like I think I sent it out in June and then provided him with the results in July. So in that >> sorry what were they again >> like the first one was the end of November and then the second check-in was the end of February and then we as a board filled out the final evaluation in June and then provided him with the results in July. >> So November should be like where are things where are you still going this year? February is the check in on that and June is evaluation. But I think we need to be real clear on what the expectations are because otherwise I don't know what he's checking in on. >> Yeah. And that's where I think when we when you do the formal evaluation I think in July ideally or June or whatever ideally he should we should have here's what we want you to be charged for for this upcoming school year check in would be in November >> because then it helps >> for whatever he's charged for. Again, I think we need to go further upstream and say make sure that we start having those discussions in October, November, December so that he is prepared and have the the the support system in place so that you know whatever he's charged for. >> But to be fair to him, >> yep. So for where we are today, since there wasn't a formal one in June or July, and since we didn't have a formal strategy annual planning session last October for this upcoming school year, this up the the check-in for November or the the first check-in ideally would be November would be how you doing? I mean, and that and that's it. I mean, unless we get metrics right away and we establish targets and and and we establish targets that are actually reasonably to be obtained within this short school year that he's going to have. Um, so >> well, I wrote that like back in August based on board conversations. So, it's not like those aren't things that he hasn't heard. Like, did you read through it? >> Yeah. Well, and some of them are are things that are in progress, you know, and that's and we are going to get and some of them are the initiatives. >> So, I don't think that would be a surprise. No. >> So, are you saying we you think we should do that at the end of this? >> I think you could just give him that now and he could do the check-in on that in November and the check-in on that in February. I think you could make that as formal evaluation because I wrote it based on all of our conversations. Like I >> that was last year like >> No, no, I did that in August. >> August? This August? This year? >> This year? Yeah, I did that in August this year and provided it to the entire board like as just like a starting point like hey this is what I came up with based on what Brian said and Paul and Amber and Carly and everybody. So >> uh that's this is different I mean. >> Okay. >> So >> Amber, what do you think? What would you what are your thoughts? >> Take a look at it. >> Um I'm fine with any timeline. I I think what I'm thinking about is when targets are set. Well, first of all, we're not going to set targets for every metric. >> Um, >> right. >> I don't think at least >> the same. It's just formatted >> for the ones I know we probably are like MCA's maybe fast bridge the finance one and there's probably others for especially for the teaching and learning goals and I don't know the answer to this but it will take time to move that number >> it's not going to be this year it's it won't maybe be next year >> and I know that's hard to hear but this it takes a long time to move a ship even 1% like this kind of ship 1% Mhm. >> Um cuz you're dealing with Yeah, there's just a lot of factors. >> Can I add in especially with curriculum changes that we've had with the readout and the math curriculum and >> I'm not going to ask anybody to change any numbers and we are going to have aspirational goals and all that stuff and I may not attain those but I will I will set the conditions and drive the system in that direction. Um, and who knows, maybe we'll be more successful than we think we'll be. >> Yeah. And that'd be great, Michael. But what I'm saying is like, if you don't hit your 5% next year, should we fire you? I mean, I think that's a valid question. I don't think that's funny. Like, >> so I'm think I'm just saying out loud that if that's the the way the board wants to operate, I'm in. >> I will do everything I can, >> right? uh uh >> because at the end of the day like what's the point of a target and a goal number if there's no >> if we don't hold it accountable >> and I I think that is the big question for me about not just about your position but about any position in the district including all the way down to custodian like >> do we fire everyone if these goals aren't met >> well there's some people who think that's the answer um I I would say that I don't >> yeah I I'm just saying I I I will I will march to the tune of the board. And if that's the direction uh that you want to go, I'm not I'm not pushing back on that. I will do everything I can to accomplish that within my uh very aged body. Uh I will try to get there, but um and I think we should push hard and you know, I'm not asking to be fired or anything like that, but um I'm in for however you want to do it. There are at the end of the day if the school board feels like the superintendent isn't driving in the direction that the school board wants they get rid of them >> right >> that's what they do >> that's your evaluation if you want to get right down to brass tax >> I mean and we have three board members who had to experience that >> in the sense like >> you had to evaluate a superintendent that you thought wasn't performing where you wanted right y >> there's nhm Right. And and that's a very noble thing for the superintendent to fall on their sword. But what happens if it's not the superintendent and it's ingrained with people who aren't accountable and and the failure continues or the the lack of success continues. That's where I I walked in on firing everybody, Amber. I so I I I don't know what you guys were talking about when I was out. But that being said, there is and in every entity there's accountability. I mean there are things you can you can look at somebody and say, "Oh, you're doing that or you're accomplishing this." If you're not accomplishing this, you're not helping the organization succeed. >> Mhm. >> And and that's where >> it's going to be his responsibility to decide who who should be who should go that that's on him. >> I I agree with that. So, so I think what I would recommend, so here's my I'll make the motion or a proposal, whatever media. I think we should do a check-in. I think we should do one within the next two weeks. I think we should do a 360 evaluation uh with with his uh direct reports or somehow we can refine that of whatever that might be. I think the evaluation should be uh from the MSBA template without any things from previous um uh goals just because he hasn't been told this is what you need to go do. I think that's the appropriate space or the appropriate scope for the evaluation. And then once we review targets and XYZ, we can then uh have another formal meeting saying this is what we want you to charge for for this particular school year. So that's that's my proposal. >> What MSBA? >> The one you sent we No, >> we have some things. I mean looking at this this is this is there's some big things. Yeah, but these are things that these are things that he wasn't told to do in January. So, where I want to be mindful of is like, hey, you haven't been told what to do. I know you did things. There's like >> in a supple in a supplemental thing that maybe he can provide is say here are the things I've done over the past nine months. And so I like you can't hold them, >> you can't hold someone to the, you know, accountable when if the if the MSBA superintendent >> template has the standards, right? Use that. He can add supplemental commentary of things that he's done over the past nine months. He's got 360 evaluation from his from his direct reports. And then that would be the the standard check-in for now. [Music] >> January through December or Yeah. The only thing I want to be careful of is like >> some of let's just be mindful about what we're saying right now we want him to be shooting for at the end of the year just because ideally you're getting those goals like we're talking about in June July so that you can plan for the whole school year >> right so so when we have those conversations over the next few weeks yes we can yes let's just be >> but for this initial check-in >> it would be like, hey, it's almost like your 90-day new hire orientation check-in. Like, how how you doing? Like, that's how I'm I'm viewing this. >> Okay. So, I'm I'm still struggling cuz I I keep thinking about it from the standpoint that >> the summer is your off time. Like, that's your that's your prep time to like tee it up >> to make whatever happen for the next year. I mean, yes, ideally, you'd have planning time before that. Y, >> right? So, I mean, >> we're going to, >> but we didn't charge him anything to deal with. I'm aware of that. But but that's not true either because we did charge him for a lot of char. But but that so that for those things that we that we've charged him to to do over the past 9 months, I'm assuming he would want to list that out in the supplemental commentary that he would add in addition to >> why if we he could on that >> what >> like we already have something. So, it sounds like we want to do an evaluation that's a 360 evaluation with him basically having his own supplementary information. Yep. >> We do a briefer check in in February and then we do a final evaluation in >> June. >> In June, >> but before the final evaluation, we would want to >> um re re refine whatever his goals are for this year. So, like in the next 30 or 45 days. >> Yes. But I I like I like this more than just the general rubric on the uh MSBA handout because it's very subjective. >> Yeah, the MSB handles are like, you know, hey, is he nice? I think community like him. It's like okay. >> No, it's not. There's very >> kids. I mean, I'm being a little I like this cuz it's very specific job functions that a superintendent does. >> Yeah. >> And there's a rubric. >> It's a rubric. transportation, food, technology, maintenance, building plans, find I mean >> it's it's his job. Yeah, I get that that you're the one that you have, but it's >> cuz the question is going to be, you know, what systems cuz it's really it's going to be, you know, implementation of new systems and processes for the district to move towards the goals that we've set or, you know, and it's like, well, and I guess you could still say, well, I don't necessarily agree with that and so I'm going to vote against it, but [Music] >> I'm just I'm just trying to look at something. >> Checkin is what we're going to do. And sorry, my thing isn't working. Not that one. I don't >> We have no agreement on what we're doing. >> I think the check this one is just sort of a gone. >> You're doing okay. You're not doing okay. We'll talk to you in a couple of months. >> Yes. >> It's him telling us telling us what he's been working on, what's going on. We basically look at it. I still think we should do the superintendent evaluation all school board members so that so that he so that so that he has >> at least a subjective lens of like how is he doing w without keeping >> this >> no right now >> this >> I yes so whatever but the stand the standard MSBA one not the one with additional stuff >> because we didn't while we might have verbally told him during the past nine months we haven't tied it to >> his performance or any of that nature >> you're saying to a full evalu valuation right now. >> What? Whatever that superintendent evaluation is. Yes. You can use it as a check-in. Yes. >> Can I just say something real quick? So, I I appreciate the MSBA document. I do. And I think we can use that as a framework, which is kind of what I did, but I also think that it says something to personalize it and have everybody's voice as a board member within that document. um which is what I did based on our conversations that we've had since for like six months that I provided and everybody had access to in August, right? Like I don't want to give him some generic document like >> well like Matt said like you can look at this and already have some of the some of the information from it. I don't I don't think it's a surprise. And then like after we finish this process and we have the dashboard and we have all of this information, we can make it more robust and actually spend time like making it the way that we want to as a board. But like we've got to figure something out tonight because he needs something to go on. >> I think >> he's doing it right. He's working. >> I know. I see him over there. I'm like I'm so >> I mean I joke we could do nothing and the district will still move forward, right? As a board. They'll still operate. you know, he's going to do the best he can for the students. That's where again, I don't think this is necessarily bad, but I'm more concerned with like is the is the superintendent fulfilling the things that we want him to do that us as a board want him to do. I mean, all a lot of the it's very >> I mean, it's expansive. I mean, it's covering things that we don't have. >> I think it's important to that like our >> Yes, there's things priorities, right? whatever you want to phrase it that we want Michael to do and you are >> we have to keep in mind that a superintendent is responsible for this entire list whether we like it or not they are and so I like this because it covers the whole job description and I like I I get what you're saying Kim and I feel like for what I would like to see is like we evaluate on this rubric that Brian suggested but then the examples of success are re reorg teaching and learning. >> His little things that he >> created a new boundary map, you know, whatever it is, like those are the examples that give evidence to why you'd give a four or why you would give a three at this moment. It's not to say you've accomplished it all, but at this moment in time, how are you doing with that project? >> Yeah. >> And how would you do I mean some of these things like >> student discipline? >> Well, you know what? If then if you don't know them, give it a three out of five as neutral or don't even or then don't score. I mean, it's just >> cuz some of them it's just like we we've never even discussed it as a board, right? >> Um >> maybe we should do the MSBA template for this November just because for the check-in just because it will give us just a baseline and then we'll see in the June time frame how we might want to >> make it more >> consistent with what you're saying. Yeah. I mean, some of them we just have to strike out, you know, collective bargaining. >> No, we're in process. >> The superintendent >> participate in the collective bargaining. >> He set up the process >> to make it happen. >> You know, it's like it's a little bit for a lot of these it's like there's other people implementing. Yeah. >> But how has he provided the direction is how I kind of >> is it happening? Is it is it in flight? Right. >> And there aren't >> if it is and we don't know about it, then that's good. >> Yeah. >> But um >> right >> or not. Yep. Yeah, >> but I do think that we should do that. And I also think they need the the deal input, too, cuz you've been in place for more than >> the check-in level, though, or at the year >> at the check-in or at the end of the year. >> Both my opinion, because we've we've gone a full year. >> I mean, they might be better at answering some of the questions on the general rubric here, you know. >> Yeah. >> Has it been officially a year today? >> Is it October one? Tomorrow's tomorrow. >> Oh my gosh, I'm disoriented. >> Some people think it's like the 15th of September. I don't know what that's all about. >> I'm thinking about tomorrow. >> It wasn't. >> It was October sometime in October last year. >> So, we rely on the MSBA version and his supplemental commentary. >> Yes. I to to do this point in time. Abs. Absolutely. I don't know how else we can do anything that would be fair. That being said, my question or point of clarification is when do we put framework in regards to metrics in regards to accomplishing this number in regards to yada yada yada >> do we do that? >> We we I would assume over the next 30 to 45 days when we review the metrics and targets in an upcoming meeting. So, we'd want to get that done fairly quickly and then being mindful where it may not be major shifts or we can set a metric and say maybe it's just neutral for this year. I I I don't know. But we could have that discussion over the next 30 to 45 days that will lead into here's your goals for this year or for the school year and then we do a formal evaluation in June. >> Right. And that that in >> with both stuff. think it would have to be neutral this year because if we're looking in the next 30 to 45 days, that's half the school year's over. >> Okay. So, you said the 360 evaluation, right? Um what does that normally include? Is that just his direct reports and principles or I'm because I don't know. Does anybody know what it included last time was the >> It would be Yeah. direct reports and then >> I would like to include the staff survey that the union sends out because I think that would be helpful. >> When does that go doable or should that be at the end of the year? >> Kim, I'm I'm confused by that. Why would we want the union to evaluate him? >> I'm not understanding. >> No, he's they're not evaluating. They fill out a survey that talks about the different parts of the district and how they It's a teacher survey. If the district sent out a teacher survey, I'd say, "Yeah, use that." But the district doesn't. The only person that or the only entity that sends out a teacher survey is the union. If you want to create your own and have the district send it out, great. Looking at what's already in process. >> But I I'm trying to understand how we use that to evaluate him in regards to being an empirical piece of information. >> Yeah. >> Because there's >> Well, I think you just take it. >> It'd be more his direct reports. I think I'd be >> Yeah, the direct reports I think are more solid. I'm concerned about um >> it' be like the front lines call center you know trying to find I was trying to find a nice way to say yes ideally that survey would be used to say hey do you enjoy working for our our our organization our employer and and that metric would be something that you would use that for not not from a CEO side >> no but there's information that you could garner from that >> yes but not to use for an evaluation I mean Cuz I mean if like every teacher came back and said they weren't happy in their job, I'd come back to him and say, "Why is our staff morale so low?" >> Yeah. I mean, >> what are you doing to improve? >> You'd have to segregate it like by building though, too. There's so many because there are other factors. There's so many people between, >> right? >> I believe that metric is on the executive dashboard whereas the staff experience survey. And so we can decide if that metric the baseline that we have that we that we were given if we think that's acceptable or not. And if it needs to be higher, then it's up to him to make those changes throughout the course of the school year. >> But for the for the 360 evaluation, we wouldn't do anything. >> But how are you gonna evaluate that? Like if it's part of his metric on the dashboard, how are you going to evaluate that? >> I think survey the staff. >> I would think we would take the staff. I mean I I'm I realize that I'm trying to think about like efficiency for this too in this time frame because I feel like we're over like to me I think the staff information by the end of the year would be helpful as one piece just how like when we get that um >> calendar year or school year >> the end of the the June time frame >> school year. Um, but when we get that Morris Leman survey and it tells us what the community thinks of us and it tells us what the community thinks of the superintendent, these things all inform like that information informs me about how we're functioning as a board. Like if the community perception of us is high, I'm like, well, at least they think we're doing pretty good, you know. But if they don't, >> yeah, you know, but what I'm saying is all of these pieces of information, they don't necessarily >> make the final like this is how I, but it's all >> it's all information. >> So, >> going back to this uh the draft rubric here from the the MSBA one, >> you're proposing that we give this to district office personnel. No, there's some surveys that they condensed >> because again like Yeah, >> like strengths, weaknesses. >> Yeah, that's it. It's just it's a colleague it's a colleague feedback. >> It's like seven or eight questions or something. >> Yeah, there's strengths and weaknesses and then there's >> some other things on there. Yeah, >> it's not very long >> and and so I think they would never fill out the scope would be drug reports, principles and that's it. >> And then us or not? Yes. And then us >> and then we fill out the superintendent evaluation form, right? the template and then he provides and he fills his own version and then add any color commentary and then have it done in two weeks. >> Yeah. >> Pisscake >> I think >> like from now you mean? >> Sure. >> Right. I mean it's just a form you can I'll fill it out tomorrow. >> Well, we're aiming for November though. So I feel or that's what we kind of said sometime in no >> in November. >> Yeah. >> All right. We're gonna need to come back and talk specifically about this. We can nail down forms >> because >> I don't think I have enough information to >> create the forms. >> I would say we're using the template for us right here. >> And then Kim Ellson should have the one the one that has been sent out. >> Just use the one that you previously >> and then we'll bring it to the next board meeting. We'll vote on it. Problem solved. >> Okay. So >> that means you actually have to fill it out >> the time >> procedurally there's it's like a PDF document. So is there some way that Kim can make it where we can fill it out online so we don't have to do paper copies? That would be my question. >> Google >> something like that like you if she could convert it that would be awesome. >> That's a good question. >> Google survey >> it's just not survey >> and I think the 360 should also be some sort of form and I think anonymous is incredibly important. Yes. >> And then who collects it all? Do we just send them to Matt >> and then he consolidates and provides an update? >> Then I as gatekeeper decide which ones that I'm going to review and allow for the evaluation or not. >> I think you and the vice chair >> you can compile right the board and then create like an average say there's four fours and a three power. >> You didn't ask for it. I didn't ask for it. >> Heavy is the head. Where's the ground? Do we all get mini gambles? >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, we is it going to be on the next meeting? Does it need to be on the next meeting agenda topic or no? No. Or is this something we can just do >> because during working sessions, no decisions are supposed to be made. From my understanding, >> we're not I mean, I think we'll come back. >> We can determine process on this kind of stuff. >> Well, some I think we'll come back and discuss it. Are we okay process? So, we can do whatever whatever we want. >> Whatever I want. Right. Right. Sorry. I think I've been told >> until until Carly, Paul, and I get the document written. Then then we'll tell you what you guys are going to have. >> The answer to your procedural question, Brian, it depends on what's on the agenda, what we can actually vote on. And there's nothing on the agenda for action. It's only discussion. >> Yeah. So, there will be a followup >> cuz I've never seen the form. >> I don't think this is a required vote. >> There's no vote. >> No, there's no vote. Okay. Sorry. We just saw you saying >> I don't mind seeing the form though. just 36 >> that can be sent out. >> Yes, >> but we can't agree on it outside of a meeting. Technically, >> you'll get to see it, but you can't have any input on it. It is what it is now. >> How about then everything gets sent out in the email before our next meeting and we can have any >> they can be on recommendations. Yeah. >> There you go. >> Even in consent, you can just put in the consent. >> Yeah. Consent agenda. >> I mean, it's up to you based on what we see. Mhm. >> If nobody sends you an email that says, "Hey, this needs to change." >> This is true. >> Then you can throw it on the consent agenda. Anybody can pull it from the consent agenda for further discussion. >> That's true. Well, I guess my point was for initial starting point for him. I think nobody has gripes that consent agenda call. >> All right. >> I think that's about it. Are we good on that? Everyone good? Think so. >> All right. See you. >> Uh motion to adjurnn. >> Uh I'll make a >> come late. >> I'll make a motion to adjourn. Motion to adjourn. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? You know, when there's four people in a board, it is an official