Good evening everyone and welcome. I will call this Bloomington City Council meeting to order. Tonight is Monday, September 14th, 2026. Thank you to everyone joining us here in the council chambers. Thanks to everybody watching online. We will begin our council meeting as we always do. If you are able, please stand and remove any head covering and join me in the pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America >> and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Once again, welcome and thank you for joining us this evening. [clears throat] Council, our first official order of business is the approval of tonight's agenda. And as I'm sure you noticed, it is a beefy one tonight. We've got a lot on our agenda this evening and it's going to take us a bit to get through it. Uh our first introductory item is item 2.1. It's a proclamation for the International Day of Peace. And item 2.2 2 is our second proclamation of the evening for suicide prevention month and week. Item 2.3, we will be celebrating our 2026 Hatch Bloomington program winners and looking forward to that to uh uh celebrating them and the work that they have done. Item 2.4, an introduction of new employees. And item 2.5, we are going to make an appointment to our merit board. Our consent agenda this evening has 24 different items on it. Council member Rivas, I think, has our consent agenda this evening. Thank you for doing that, council member. Under item four are hearings, resolutions, and ordinances. We have eight different hearings, resolutions, and ordinances. Uh the first item 4.1 and 4.2. Uh those are resolutions would be adopting the preliminary 2027 tax levy and our 2027 general fund budget uh and the pre and the conceptual general fund 2028 uh general fund budget. our uh discussion about the preliminary tax levy will provide an opportunity for public comment for folks in the chambers. Then we go into public hearings. We've got uh five or six of them. Item 4.3 is a public hearing regarding our delinquent water, sewer, storm water drainage, garbage, recycling, and organics assessments. Item 4.4 public hearing on our tree removal assessments. 4.5 weed brush removal assessments. 4.6 our public nuisance abatement assessments. and 4.7 our public hearing for civil fines for property related violation assessments. Item 4.8 is a public hearing regarding a resoning for the James Avenue city homes and our organizational business. We'll wrap up with our city council policy and issues update as it always does. As I said, council, it's going to be a busy one. So, uh, looking forward to the conversation. Also looking forward to making sure that all of our comments are to the point and brevity is our friend this evening. So, let's keep that in mind. Council, unless there are any changes or anything to add, I would move approval of our agenda as stated tonight. >> Motion and a second by council member Rivas to accept tonight's agenda as stated. With no other discussion on this, I will note that council member uh Carter is uh remote this evening and so all of our votes are going to have to be roll call votes, which is going to add also to our uh the time we spend this evening. So, I'm going to turn it over. Uh Miss Ry, if you could call the role, please. Council member Carter. >> Hi, [clears throat] >> Dallasandro. >> Hi, >> Rivas. >> Hi, >> Nelson. >> Hi, >> Lman. Hi, >> Robertson. >> Hi, >> Mayor Bassy. >> I motion carries 70. And we have an agenda. And the first item on that agenda is a couple of proclamations. And I'm going to head down to the podium. As I mentioned, our first proclamation this evening is for the International Day of Peace. And I think we have uh Lake Kennedy is our youth commissioner for HRC is here. Is Lake here with us? There he >> um actually uh we've been trying to get a hold of him. We confirmed earlier he would be here, but he's not here. >> Laken is TBD. Okay, we will wait. Uh we will welcome him if he arrives. So very good. So the proclamation for the international day of peace here in the city of Bloomington, September 21st, 2026. Whereas the shared goal of peace inspires and unifies people across the world as one of the humanity's deepest hopes. And whereas the theme for this 2026 United Nations International Day of Peace is invest in peace for everyone, everywhere, every day. This powerful call to action honors the grassroots architects of stability, reminding us that longlasting harmony is built through daily local acts of compassion, equality, and community dialogue. And whereas our journey of peace and the priority to create a connected, welcoming community is defined and emphasized in Bloomington's strategic plan. And whereas in light of the ongoing repeated tragedies in our communities, including the killings of Renee Good and Alex Prey, our resolve for peace takes new life and meaning amid the heartbreaking impacts on our neighbors, friends, and families. And whereas the year 2026 marks 19 years of Civic Plaza as a peace site, which represents our commitment to seek peace within ourselves and others, reach out and surface, pursue environmental sustainability, respect diversity, foster inclusivity, and be responsible citizens of the world. Now, therefore, I, Mayor Tim Busy, do hereby proclaim September 21st as the International Day of Peace, dated this 14th day of September, 2026. Uh, as the proclamation indicates, this is an annual proclamation that we do read and and I do recall when the Civic Plaza was designated as a a place of peace and our peace poll out front indicates that and I think it's it's a good reminder every day that we it's something that we can't just take for granted and it's something that we have to work toward and I appreciate this proclamation every year and um I'm happy to present it on behalf of uh of Bloomington. So, and if Lincoln shows up, we'll get him a picture a little bit later. Very good. Item 2.2 on our agenda is our second proclamation, and this is for uh our National Suicide Prevention Month and National Suicide Prevention Week. The month of course is September, and the week is September 13th through the 19th. And so, we are in the midst of National Suicide Prevention Week. Uh I believe we have with us Jen Owens, the director for programs for SAVE. Are you here, Jen? Come on up, please. Please, you can join me here and I will do the proclamation and I'll turn the microphone over to you. All right. A proclamation for National Suicide Prevention Month, September 2026, and National Suicide Prevention Week, September 13th through the 19th, 2026. Whereas suicide is a major community issue that requires vigilant attention and preventative action with 845 motans dying by suicide in 2025. And whereas each death by suicide directly impacts numerous family members, friends, loved ones, and by extension the entire community. And whereas the city of Bloomington is committed to ensuring that those in need have access to services by healthcare providers trained in best practices to reduce suicide risk and to reducing the stigma associated with using behavioral health treatment or losing a loved one to suicide. And whereas the city of Bloomington recognizes organizations such as suicide awareness voices of education or save and its own internal Bloomington Cares team for their efforts in educating the p public and providing services for those at risk. And whereas the Bloomington Police Department is utilizing the first of its kind in Minnesota local outreach to suicide survivors. It's a team initiative. The loss team provides immediate direct support to people and families in Bloomington who have experienced the loss of a loved one to suicide. And whereas the month of September is recognized as suicide prevention month and September 13th through the 19th is recognized across the United States as United as suicide prevention week. Now therefore, I, Mayor Tim Busy, do hereby proclaim September as as suicide prevention month and September 13th through the 19th as National Suicide Prevention Week in the city of Bloomington, Minnesota, and call upon the people of Bloomington to observe this month and week by working with your families, friends, neighbors, co-workers, and leaders to become more informed of mental health issues that contribute to suicide. Dated this 14th day of September, 2026. This is also an annual proclamation that we do here in Bloomington. And I think it's one of the more important ones because we don't often do proclamations that actually directly and impactfully affect people's lives and and talk about the need for people to to step in and to support and to do what we can to prevent uh the terrible tragedy of suicide in our community. So, Jen, uh director of programs at SAVE, we are so glad you are here this evening. I'm going to turn over the microphone to you. >> Sure. Well, thank you, mayor, and thank you to the city of Bloomington for this proclamation recognizing suicide um prevention month this September and suicide prevention week, which is this week. While September is an important time to elevate suicide prevention, I especially want to recognize the city of Bloomington for your support of our post vvention work through our loss teams that you mentioned in the proclamation. A loss team stands for local outreach to suicide survivors is a community-based team that connects with individuals and families after a suicide loss, offering connection, resources, and support from people who've been there. They've experienced a similar loss. We believe that postvention is prevention. When we support people after a suicide, we can help further reduce isolation that often survivors feel after a loss. we can connect survivors to resources much sooner than they would um naturally reach out for for care or for support. Um and we can also connect them to or or ultimately helping prevent further harm that can come from a suicide loss. So, we're incredibly grateful for this partnership we have with the city of Bloomington, with Bloomington Cares, um and the Bloomington Police Department, which all makes this program possible. Uh we value this collaboration deeply. uh we look forward to another year of working together to support this community. So, thank you again for this recognition and for being a part of the work uh to build a community where people can find hope, connection, and support. Um if you want to learn about more about SAVE and our work, you can head to our website.org. Um and then I also just wanted to highlight 988. Um, if you or someone you know is currently struggling with emotional distress, thoughts of suicide, or even issues around substance misuse, you can call, text, or chat 988. Uh, they're there to offer support 247. So, thank you all for your time tonight. >> Thank you very much. Do the gripping grin. Thanks for being here today. >> Of course. Next on our agenda, council is item 2.3, which is our Hatch Bloomington 2026 program celebration. Uh Sean Lundy is going to come up and lead us through this, and we're we're going to then eventually meet uh our winners this year. Uh I think that the video explains it if not Sean will but uh this is a remarkably successful program for the past three years in the city of Bloomington. Hatch is absolutely a success item that we can be proud of and that uh as I've said in the past when when cities do good work other good cities copy it and we copied this and now Blooming now other Minnesota cities are trying to copy us as well. So we're very proud of that. Sean, thank you for being here this evening. Welcome. >> Yep. Thank you Mr. Mayor. Good evening, city council members. Uh, as the mayor pointed out, my name is Sean Lundy. I am the special projects and initiatives manager uh, with the city of Bloomington. Um, so I wanted to just talk a little bit about the Hatch program before we recognize these five winners. Um, I want to showcase the impact of the program as a whole, talk about some past success stories, and then, uh, invite them up here to be recognized. Can you put it forward? Going to start dancing here in a second. Um, so the $100,000 Hatch Bloomington pitch competition was launched in 2024 originally to be in support of entrepreneurs looking to launch the retail brick-and-mortar space in the city of Bloomington. Uh, under that design, we had two successful winners over the past or the first two years of that program. As you can see in the slide, year one winner in 2024 was Scrambling Egg. They were a uh they were a food truck that were look that was looking for a retail spot to move into and expand throughout the city. Uh year two we had bookmother uh with the founder Twilight Deng. Um that is uh an independent bookstore designed as a welcoming third space and she is moving towards getting a retail spot open later this year. So this is where we get to brag a little bit about the program. Uh slide before. So beyond direct financial assistance to small businesses, the program also shapes the wider conversation about the city of Bloomington that's taking place in the media ecosystem. Since 2024, the program has gained significant traction across all media platforms uh and is is it's in the media ecosystem even as uh as recently as this past weekend. So, I just wanted to draw your attention to a couple key numbers that you see on the slide. uh across online and print media to include radio, TV, YouTube, and uh social media platforms. Hatch has reached an estimated audience of about $250 million eyeballs. This has resulted in an estimated publicity value for the city of Bloomington of 11.7 million. This coverage includes WCCCO, CBS, KSTP, Carol 11, Fox 9 Morning News, Axios Twin Cities, the Minneapolis St. Paul Business Journal and like I said even uh as recently as this past week in the Star Trean ran an article. So getting into year three what we're here to celebrate tonight. The start of this year brought significant and broad economic pressure to the wider Minnesota small business community exposing Bloomington's ecosystem to additional financial strain. So for the 2026 program, we adjusted our strategy to meet the small business community where they were at. Instead of awarding $100,000 in financial assistance to one entrepreneur, the 2026 Hatch program was redesigned to support multiple existing local businesses that are facing challenges or looking to expand in the city of Bloomington. The winners of this year's competition are here tonight and they're all sitting behind me here. Uh and we are excited to recognize them. But first, we want to play a quick video. We've been [music] serving the Bloomington community for 12 years now. We do repair, mechanical, as well as anything that has to do with collision. This was a dream that my husband had. We both worked side by side until he passed last year. We want to keep going not only because it's something that we built with him, but it's something now that I'm [music] through with my daughter who is my right hand now. >> We get a lot of visitors from other states. We get a lot of orders from the airport. We served authentic Afghan cuisine. I own this restaurant with my brother and my family. >> We've got five green houses that we fill in the springtime. >> Quirky is kind of the best way to [music] describe our place. We wanted to feel light and fun. We are a brewery and tap room, [music] the first in Bloomington. It has been a Bloomington endeavor. All of our investors are either from Bloomington originally or they currently live in Bloomington. We really wanted to be part of the community. Zeke has been around in the Bloomington community for a little over 40 years now. My dad and mom are the [music] current owners. This will be our 21st year. We're just a more classic diner that offers a lot of burgers, sandwiches, and roasted [music] chicken. I think some of these initiatives by the city are going a long way to really promote the fact that the city is open to small businesses and encouraging small businesses. My brother told me about the Hash program and I applied for it because I was so convinced with the program and the way it's going to affect my business. So, I was so excited. >> I really appreciated [music] the fact that Bloomington was investing back into what is already here cuz there's so many amazing little spots in Bloomington that [music] people don't know about. It's kind of exciting. in the city wants to keep us here. It's flattering. >> You feel like you're part of Bloomington and people care out there. Even the locals, how many people found out about the hatch? Like customers will come up and tell us, "It's so nice that you got selected. [music] They high-five you and I don't know how they know. It goes to show that people follow. I know we served our community for the last 12 years, but this last year we felt a lot of support from them, >> which was amazing to have him stop by and [music] just check in on us. Thanks to everyone who's helped us and supported us all this time. >> Invite Mayor Busy to come down here. >> Thank you, Sean. And as Sean said, we had two very successful Hatch Bloomington years starting entrepreneurs, new businesses in the city of Bloomington. And we got to it this year and realized that we had a lot of folks who wanted to start a new business, but we also had a lot of businesses that were already here that were paying rent, paying employees, serving our community, becoming a part of the community, and they needed some help. And so this pivot to Hatch Bloomington Loves Local really came as an understanding and an acknowledgement that we want to keep keep businesses. We want to keep them in town. We want to have them keep hiring employees, keep serving our community, keep being part of this community. And so I'm very proud of first of all the work that Shawn and the rest of our staff did to pull all of this together. They did outstanding work. Uh as I said, this is the env in Minnesota. would love to have something like this and to be able to do something like this. I'm so proud of all the businesses that applied and we're going to meet five of them tonight, but there were a lot of folks who applied and uh all of them had a definite need and we definitely want to support them. Uh I also want to thank our Bloomington Port Authority. Originally, we started with this pot of $100,000 that we were looking to distribute to our winners. And when we saw the value and the and the the quality of what our winners were doing, our port authority led by Holly Mesa, I thought Holly was here, she was here earlier, uh donated contributed an extra $24,000. So with the total uh total budget of $124,000, we were able to fund and support five different businesses in town. So this is uh this is a communitywide effort, and I'm so proud of the our winners tonight. I'm proud of the the community that supports this. I'm proud of our past winners and staff. This is really something very cool and unique to the city of Bloomington. So, give yourselves a round of applause. So, thank you so very much. [applause] And now we're just going to do the official formalities here. Get everybody up here to receive your plaques uh to do the grip and grin and uh to make sure that you get a chance to uh to for people to see who you are. We are going to start with Otto's auto body collision and repair center. Come on up. >> [applause] >> Why don't we Why don't you come on up? Hold on to that. Everybody smile and wave. Congratulations. [applause] Now, I will say I' I've not brought my car to your business because I've never had a car worth fixing, honestly. So, I just don't bother. Uh so, I apologize to that. If if I can eventually up afford a car worth fixing, I'll I'll definitely look you up. I promise. Uh I have also unfortunately not been yet not been yet to Afghan Darbart. Join us. Thank you. [applause] Congratulations. [applause] >> I have in fact been to Nine Mile once or twice. [laughter] >> So congratulations to Bloomington Brewing and Tap Room, our NMI brewing folks. Bob, congratulations. [applause] Absolutely. And I have also been many times and spent a lot of money with our friends at the Bloomington Garden Center and Landscape Company. [applause] >> Absolutely. Congratulations. >> Congratulations. >> Congratulations. Well done. Thank you. [applause] >> And I will say the folks, our last ones, the folks at Zeke's place, uh Zeke's became a special place for my family when we were we were going through a rough patch with uh my mom who was sick and we would meet a lot of times at Zeke's because it was kind of a central point and that's kind of uh it became an important place in our lives. So I'm happy to present this to Zeke's place as well. [applause] Let's give all of our winners a big [applause] round of applause, please. Next. >> Council, next on our agenda, as we have our hatch folks work their way out, introduction of our new employees. We've got three new public works employees and uh Tim Barrett from our public works staff is going to do some introductions and we're going to say hello to them. Mr. Baron, good evening. Welcome. >> Good evening, mayor and council members. It is my privilege tonight to introduce three of our newest public works employees. Um I will start with Amy Haim. Amy came to us um from a neighboring city. She was smart enough to cross the border. I won't say which city, but we can kind of imagine who it is. Um, so Amy holds a certification in vehicle title and registration which helps process motor vehicle documents which is perfect because she works in our fleet division as our office support specialist. Um, Amy has grew up in Bloomington so she is a local resident as well. Um, she loves spending time outside work traveling with family and spending time with her family. So Amy, welcome. >> Hello. [laughter] >> Glad to be here. >> Welcome. We're very glad to have you here. Welcome. >> Perfect. Um, and our next employee, Everly Gleman, is our equipment operator within our street division. Everly comes with 20 years of equipment operation experience and most recently working with a local uh, asphalt company. He holds a class A commercial driver's license and when he's not working, he um, enjoys spending time exploring national parks with his wife and three kids along with snowboarding and skiing in the mountains. Everly, welcome. >> Everly, welcome. Thanks for being here. And third but not last is Jacob Stone. Jacob Stone is a service technician within our facilities division. He has over 15 years experience in facility maintenance operations. Um some of his work includes maintaining public schools and county facilities and most recently he directed management um maintenance at a lived in uh sorry at a assisted living facility. [clears throat] Um, Jacob holds a Minnesota first class C boilers license, a class D water operator license, and a commercial pool operator certification. >> Jacob grew up in Richfield, and outside of work, he enjoys hunting, fishing, camping, and hiking, and pretty much anything that gets him outdoors. >> Welcome, Jacob. >> Thank you. Glad to be here. >> Well, thank you all for being here. Uh, thank you, Tim, for the introductions. Uh, thanks for for joining us here at the city of Bloomington. We we're we're very happy about that. I tell all of our new employees, uh, it's a big responsibility because for a lot of folks, you are the face of Bloomington. They they may or may not know who sits up here, but they'll certainly know the people who are are work working out there, uh, either on the streets or, uh, in our public works department. So, it's a big responsibility, but I've got complete confidence that you're going to be able to manage it and do very well with it. So, look forward to seeing you around town and and look forward to working with you. Welcome aboard. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Thanks, [applause] council. Our last item under our introductory items are is an appointment to the merit board. We had uh an opening on the merit board due to the uh the tragic passing of John Locks. Uh John was a longtime merit board member and uh was a great leader in this community and we're going to miss him a lot. But uh we realized we we needed to make the appointment and so we uh put out the the call for applicants and as we do with all of our boards or commissions we uh we had an interview process. We had I think officially five applicants and four people that we did interview and the interviewers uh it was Peter Zuniga and myself that did the interview for this and so it was uh standard. It was the basic things that we do as we as I said fill all of our boards and commissions. And uh I do want to say I want to thank everybody who did apply. We had we had a nice group of applicants. We had uh they were willing to step forward. They were willing to serve their community. Uh they put their time in the process into the application. And I appreciate that. As I know you all know the the merit board uh requires I mean it requires judgment, fairness, and the ability to uh carefully consider different perspectives from a variety of different perspectives. And I'm confident any of our applicants would have done this very well. I'm also confident they would have been thoughtful and deliberative in their approach and uh after considering all of our applicants and Peter and I had a good conversation. I had uh I believe and we are making the recommendation that Paige Roman is the strongest choice for the appointment to this position uh for a variety of reasons. First of all, Paige brings extensive leadership and management experience at the University of Minnesota where he has served in senior leadership roles overseeing the operations budgets and a significant number of employees. In his current role, he leads operations across the system with more than $250 million in budgets and more than 1100 employees. That experience gives him strong understanding of organizational management and the responsibilities that come with making big decisions that affect employees. Uh second page also has substantial experience with labor relations policy interpretation and with sensitive personnel management management and issues which obviously plays right into the merit board's responsibilities. And finally, uh, Paige had six years of service on the Bloomington Planning Commission, and he, uh, it would be especially valuable, I think, as a a merit board member. The experience means he already understands how Bloomington operates. He has firsthand experience with the responsibilities of public service, obviously, and he knows the importance of applying city policies fairly and evenly across uh across the the board. Um, so, uh, I I really do that all of I do think that all of that experience, that background, that information, the knowledge that Paige brings, uh, it will allow him to step right into the merit board with a a good level of understanding. And, um, I, um, again, want to thank the applicant pool. I think they've done a wonderful job coming forward and and I think they would all do well, but it is my recommendation to, uh, to appoint Paige to the member of the merit board. So that's the recommendation of the interview panel and as we always do uh you are free as we take a vote now to vote for any one of the applicants and you have the list of applicants there in front of you. Uh we will call the role and everybody will have one vote on this and we will see if we get to four votes and if not we will uh take our next steps that we will decide what is next. So everybody clear on that. Very good. Miss Ry could you uh call the the voting please? Carter. >> Uh, Paige. Roman. >> Tallesandro. >> I'll concur. Roman. >> Reebas. >> Roman. >> Nelson. >> Roman. >> Lman. >> Paige. Roman. >> Robertson. >> Roman. >> Mayor Bbasy. >> And Paige Roman. Council. Uh with the 70 vote, I would make a motion to appoint Paige Roman to the merit board for a term uh from the date of appointment, which would be today until December 31st of 2026. >> So moved. >> Motion by council member Lman and second by council member Dalisandro to appoint Paige Roman to the merit board. No further council discussion on this. Miss Ryan. >> Carter. >> I. >> Dlesisandro. >> I. >> Rivas. >> I. >> Nelson. >> Hi. >> Lman. >> Hi. >> Robertson. >> Hi. >> Mayor Vasy. >> Hi. Motion carries 70. Congratulations uh Paige and welcome to uh Bloomington's merit board. Next and on our agenda council is our consent business. Council member Rivas has the consent agenda tonight. Council member Rivas. Sorry to interrupt, but I can't hear anything. So, I'm not sure. >> We're not quite there yet. Council member, sorry. Y, >> you have any holes? >> Do you have any holds? Uh, uh, >> council member Curry. Nope. Okay. I move items 3.1 to 3.11 and items 3.12 to 3.24. I'm uh holding uh item 3.12. Council uh Lman, council member Lman is holding item 3.12. >> Looking for a second. >> We have a motion. Do we have a second? >> Second. >> Motion by council member Revas, second by council member Lman. And to clarify, uh this is to approve item 3.1 through 3.11 and then 3.13 to 3 >> uh 24. >> No further council discussion on this. Miss Ry >> Carter. >> Iandro. I >> Rivas >> I >> Nelson >> I >> Lman >> I >> Robertson I >> Mayor Busy >> I motion carries 70 item 3.12 council member Lman. >> Thank you mayor. Uh uh I don't want to make this into a big deal. I just don't agree uh with the changes that are being uh suggested here uh with the bylaws for the advisory uh board of health and uh rules of procedure. I think everybody pretty much knows my my background on that. So, I don't need to elaborate on all that, but uh I I just wanted to hold this so I could vote no. >> Very good. With that, uh Council Member Rivas, could you please move item 3.12, please, for us? >> We're going to need your microphone. Council member, >> I move uh uh item 3.12 actually. >> Second. >> Okay. Motion by council member Rivas, second by council member Donlesandro to accept item 312 on the uh consent agenda this evening that is to approve the advisory board of health bylaws and rules of procedure. No further council discussion on this. Miss Riot. >> Carter. >> Hi. >> Dlesandro. >> I. Rias. >> I. >> Nelson. >> I. >> Lman. >> No. >> Robertson. >> I. >> Mayor Basi. >> I. Motion carries 61 with council member Lman in opposition. Thank you, Council Member Rivas. Appreciate it. Moving on to our hearings, resolutions, and ordinances. Item 4.1 on tonight's agenda is the resolution adopting the 2027 preliminary tax levy with an opportunity for public comment. Krie Carlson from our finance staff is going to lead us through this one. And what the uh the plan is we will do uh the presentation and then we will open it up to public comment. anybody in the chambers is is uh able to speak on the uh on the resolution and uh there will be a two-minute limit per for uh comments and then the council will take it up after that. Miss Carlson. Good evening. Welcome. >> Good evening. Good evening, mayor and council. So yes, tonight I will walk through the preliminary 2027 tax levy and general fund budget along with the conceptual preliminary 2028 tax levy and general fund budget. So here's our agenda for tonight. So I will walk through basically what's driving the changes and some key highlights around the budget. And then we'll open it up for a public comment and then council discussion and consideration of the resolutions. Okay. So before we get into the 2027 levy, I want to provide some historical context. So in 2026, the preliminary levy was 9.44%. But we were able to bring that down to 6.96% by final adoption. And then over the last four years, our preliminary tax levy increases have averaged 10.23% for um preliminary average compared with an average final increase of 8.32%. So just this shows that the preliminary levy is a starting point and we uh will continue working to reduce that before final adoption. So here is the proposed 2027 preliminary city tax levy. It is $100.2 million and that is an increase of $6.24 24 million or a 6.64% increase. And you can see on this table that the largest increase is in the general fund, which we'll break down in more detail in the next few slides. And you can also see that that increase is partially offset by a $1.9 million reduction in debt payments and a 150,000 reduction in the Normandale Lake District tax abatement capital projects levy. Um, you'll also see that uh forestry, we're moving that from a special revenue fund into the general fund and also shifting $200,000 of the levy from the ice garden to the community health and wellness center to help prepare for operations and opening in late fall of 2027. So, here's a combined um Bloomington levy with the HR in the port. So in this chart the city levy itself is increasing or in the previous chart we showed that the city by itself is increasing by 6.64% from last year. Um also when we combine the city the h and the port levies the total combined levy is also increasing 6.64%. And of that combined increase the uh contribution from the city is 6.26% 26% um or percentage points from that combined city levy. So now um looking ahead to 2028 and I want to stress that this is a conceptual levy for planning purposes. Um but since um and that the reason for that is that the the actual 2028 levy will be established next year and at this point we're just we're projecting a total levy of about 110.1 million which is an increase of 9.85 85 million or 9.82%. And that increase is primarily driven by the general fund and the debt payments for tax levy. And then also we're projecting out an increase for community health and wellness center just as that facility moves um into its first full year of operations. So we'll continue of course refining both the general fund and the debt levy as we move through the 2028 budget process next year. Um, and I just want to point out without that increase in debt service that the projected levy increase would be about 7.14%. And then also as a combined um preliminary conceptual preliminary for 28 when we take city h port levies together it's about um 116.5 million an overall increase of 9.59. So the city accounts for the vast majority of that increase. Um smaller increases for the H import and port that we're projecting. As I mentioned on the previous slide, a significant portion of the city increase is that $2.7 million increase in debt service. So again, without that, the city portion would be around 7.14. And again, I just want to say these are conceptual numbers. Um and we will be refining them before that's established next year. So this slide just shows how our tax base has changed over the last five years. So after significant growth in 2023, um the growth has been much more modest in recent years. And then if you look at the last line of that chart for 2027, the local rate tax capacity is growing 2.1% and the residential values are growing 2.6%. six% while commercial, industrial, and apartment values are essentially flat. So, we're seeing tax ba based growth, but it's also a shift toward residential property. And so, um because the median value home increased by 2.9% from last year and the homestead market value exclusion decreased. As a result, this shows how a 6.64% tax levy increase would translate to about a 7.75% increase for the median value home. And that is roughly $247 per week increase. For a month, that's $10.71. Or for a year, it's $12849. So, um, getting into our budget direction, um, as we've talked about before, our budget mission for 2027 and 2028, um, has these two guiding principles to sustain and enhance the excellent quality of life that makes Bloomington an endurable and remarkable community where people want to be, and to develop a budget that is sensitive to the economic stress and shifting demographics that define in our community. And so as we developed the budget, we continued to focus on on these priorities on finishing what we've started, on improving how we serve the community, staying financially strong, and being disciplined on taxes. And ultimately, the goal is to make sure our budget decisions align our resources um with the city's overall priorities. And as we move forward with our budget um direction, we also need to stay in sync with what's happening across our workforce. So personnel costs do make up 74% of our general fund budget. So changes in our workforce do have a significant impact on the budget. We're seeing changing workforce expectations. Um Minnesota paid leave and other state policy changes as well as continued u recruitment, retention, and succession planning needs. And at the same time, we need to make sure our staffing keeps pace with service needs. So, while we're being thoughtful about adding new positions, there are areas where additional staffing is needed, especially in the fire department and also in the new community health and wellness center. So, it's just part of balancing the service needs and supporting our workforce and then also keeping the budget sustainable. So, one of the ways that we've been talking about this year to help manage the levy is through our capital and debt management fund. So, for 2027, we're reducing the debt levy by about 1.89 million. And we're able to do that by using available fund resources to reduce the property taxes that are needed for debt payments for paying off eligible bonds early and also using some cash for capital projects where it makes sense rather than issuing additional debt. And so that helps lower our levy today while it also uh reduces future borrowing and debt costs. And then in in addition to the debt levy reduction, we've identified another $910,000 in reductions in the 2027 budget. And so, as I mentioned before, this does include reductions to the Normandale Lake District tax abatement levy and the elimination of the ice garden levy along with uh reductions throughout the general fund. So within the general fund, departments reduced professional services, seasonal staffing and overtime, training and travel, technologies, supplies, equipment, and other operating cost. And these reductions are part of our ongoing effort just to manage the tax levy while maintaining our core services. [snorts] So just talking about um investments in this budget. So the first area of investment is really about finishing what we've already started and about 1.79 million of that uh 2027 budget increase is continues investments that are already underway. So the largest piece is fire. So, we have nine additional positions as we continue the transition to a combination full-time and part-time department along with new equipment for the new hires and a new fire cadet program. We're also continuing our investment in the community health and wellness center with the facility that's scheduled to open in late fall of 2027. And we need to begin staffing and preparing for operations so we're ready when the when we open the doors. So we're also continuing um along with that investments in urban forestry, preventative park maintenance and um climate action plan initiatives. And another area of investment is public safety technology. So the goal is to increase the capacity of our existing police staff by using technology to work more efficiently and effectively. So, we've included an additional $500,000 of both 2027 and 2028 for tools uh such as AI and workflow technology, drone first responder program, and an integrated Axon platform. And while the drone first responder program is primarily a uh police investment, um drones can also be used for fire, public works, parks, and other departments. Um there's also potential that there could be an additional 558,000 um on top of that beginning in 2029 as this work continues. So this will allow us to make these um investments now while continuing to just evaluate the longer term needs and longerterm costs. So let's break down um these numbers a little bit. [snorts] So here we have the general fund revenues and you can see the property tax levy is our largest revenue source in the general fund at uh over 69% of the total and next is lodging and admission taxes. Local lodging admission taxes are the next largest source followed by permits and licenses grants and transfers from other funds. So overall, the 2027 preliminary general fund budget is about $129.9 million in revenues. And here um this next slide is just a chart illustrating really illustrating the impact of the general fund is on uh is on the property tax levy. So nearly uh 70% almost seven out of every $10 of the general fund revenue comes from property taxes. uh while all other re uh revenue sources combined make up about 30%. So it shows why changes in our other revenue sources can help but ultimately the property tax levy has the greatest impact on our ability to fund our general fund services. And then going to the expenditure side for the 2027 preliminary general fund budget, it's also $129.9 million. Uh public safety makes up nearly half of the general fund budget. So when you take police and fire together, that's about 48% of the expenditures. And then public works, parks and recreation are the next largest areas followed by community development and public health. So the remaining departments make up a much smaller portion of the overall budget as shown um on this slide. you can see um when you see it in a pie chart, it gives you more of a visual sense of how those expenditures are distributed um across the city services. So um looks like the titles didn't come over as well when we put those out here, but um we'll fix that in the packet if it's not like that in the agenda materials. it. Um so you can see though what is showing is that police, fire, public works and parks and recreation are making um making up a large portion um of that chart there. And what's not showing the the next uh kind of pink pink magenta slice there, that's community development. And then the lighter green one next to that is public health. And then um the next three smaller slices of that chart are um finance and legal, administrative, city council, and communications. So you can see it's a much smaller portion of our overall general fund expenditures. And so um I know the last time we were here and showing some preliminary preliminary budget information, there were some requests to show this tax levy broken out in different ways. Okay, so these next few slides are going to do that. So this one is a breakdown by department. So this shows the 6.64% levy increase u by department. So public safety you can see is the largest driver of the increase with fire and police together accounting for 4.23%. And then after that uh parks and recreation and public works are each around um 85% of that increase. And then the smaller increases are in the other areas. And you can see um looking at the the change uh between 26 and 27 that uh for finance, legal, administration, communications is actually a very slight decrease. Another way to break out that 6.64% tax levy increase is to look at it by category. So you can see salaries and benefits are the largest driver. So it's almost 7% of the levy. And then materials, supplies, and services um are about 1.64%. 64%. Um just a little bit of an impact from capital outlay and um but those increases then are offset by that 1.9 million uh reduction in debt payments. So that's another way to look at the 6.64%. And then I have one more and so this is looking at by kind of budget drivers. So, uh, when we talk about what, uh, what increases necessary for maintaining our current services, that accounts for 6.22 percentage points. Um, when we talked about the finishing investments that are already underway, that's another 1.9 uh 1.9 points. And then the new public safety technology that we're um talking about adding is about half of a a percentage point. And then again um showing how the reduction for the um the debt levy that we are using from capital and debt management fund how that affects that. And then um just here's a graphic just to kind of help put all of that um together more visually in a um kind of a vertical vertical uh chart there. So you can see that cost of maintaining services is really the primary driver of the increase and then the investments we're continuing um to make and the new public safety technology um add to that and then that debt levy reduction um provides a a bit of an offset and then just talk about some highlights here. Um so for community engagement uh we've had a lot of uh community engagement throughout the budget process. We've provided a variety of ways for residents participate both in person and virtually. So uh that includes let's talk Bloomington online. We've been at community events uh such as the farmers market. There's been a there was a questionnaire and uh the briefing that people mailed in. Um really the goal has been just going to meet people where they are and provide multiple opportunities for residents to learn about the budget, to ask questions, to share their priorities with us. And here's the map that we had in the inerson events that I have shown in the past, but just to show it again that we talked um with people at community events um and shows where they live throughout the community. we had a different color for each event, but you can see that we did hear from residents um that it was spread out across Bloomington. And then when we summarize the feedback across all that engagement, we've heard some consistent themes. Uh residents value Bloomington. They're proud to live here um and the services that the city provides. Um but definitely affordability and rising property taxes are a real concern. uh they want us to demonstrate as a city um the value for their tax dollars. They want us to prioritize investments carefully and you know reassess when circumstances change and continue thinking about the city's long-term financial sustainability. And then here is the calendar that we've been working through for 27 for um the 2728 um budget process. And uh many of the opportunities um and and dates have passed. Uh we've got the yellow highlight around September 14th tonight. Um it's colorcoded. I'll just say again. The dark blue boxes were things that city staff did. Uh the light blue were our community budget information tables. The orange uh represents public comment opportunities like tonight. Um it's also part green because we have a representation for council. Um, and then, uh, right now, as I said, we're at the preliminary levy and budget stage, but there still are several opportunities for council discussion and public input before this budget is finalized in December. And, uh, before I end, I also want to make sure residents are aware of Minnesota's property tax refund program. Both homeowners and renters may qualify for a refund based on their individual circumstances. This is a state program and the department of revenue website, the phone numbers and a QR code are included here for anyone who would like more information or wants to see if they qualify. And then also I want to highlight there's another option specifically for seniors in the state's property tax deferral program. So for eligible homeowners aged 65 and older, property taxes are limited based on household income with the remaining amount deferred by the state. And so there are additional elig eligibility requirements, but you can ask our city assessor's office. They are uh happy to help residents understand the program and whether it be may be an option for them. And with that, that concludes uh my presentation. So, at this point, I will turn it over to the mayor. >> Thank you, Miss Carlson. Uh, once again, very informative and well put together, and I appreciate the different breakdowns of the increase and where it comes and where it falls in. And I think it it responds to what the council was asking for. So, thank you for doing that. That's helpful. Council, any questions of Miss Carlson before we get to the public comment? All right, let us dive into our public comment opportunity here. Uh first of all just kind of the the ground rules here. Anybody is able to speak, come on up and you just introduce yourself. Make sure you tell us who you are and uh then you can sign in. We have a clipboard here. You can sign in after you're done. You can kind of take the the clipboard and step to the side and that'll get the next person up and speaking. Also, we have two minutes per speaker and our handy little clock on the wall will let you know when the two minutes are up. And when the two minutes are up, I will stop you. Not because I'm a mean guy, just because I want to make sure that everybody has the same amount of time to speak and and we all have a fair shot at this. So, uh, and we will hold if if you have specific if you have comments, we certainly want to hear the comments. If you have specific questions, what we'll do, we'll collect all the questions and answer those questions or do our best to answer those questions at the end of the public comment. Um, we'll we'll collect them all and and when everybody's done, then we'll uh we'll try and answer those questions. So, with that said, I will open our public comment period tonight. Is there anybody in the chambers who wishes to speak regarding the proposed uh 2027 general fund budget or the proposed uh levy for next year? >> Mr. Had I saw you back there, I would have been disappointed if you didn't come back. It's >> you know it. I know for a fact I do not have enough time to read this entire thing and I because of the great presentation that was presented I learned some things. So I do have to make some edits but I came here mostly two for two well three reason sorry three reasons. one. Um, I actually think the levy isn't high enough, but I think that there could be like exceptions and ways to move stuff around. And as you were saying with the home or as was presented with the Homestead exception, clearly there's ways to make this more equitable than either a regressive policy or a blanket policy. Um, but I don't believe from what's coming in our future in terms of um Trump's policies about uh energy, uh, foreign policy, the bond market, uh, the economy in general, and all of the other federal services that have been cut in the past few years. uh and then on top of it El Nino which is going to change climate into the real emergency that we are not prepared at all to face right now. So that's that's point number one. Point number two is that Axon um is essentially the sister or the competitor to flock. And I remember last November a resident spoke about the many warnings against these kinds of cameras and I distinctly remember the council saying that there was no budget for them and not to worry about it. That was obviously last year. This is this year. I don't know who proposed that but if it came from BPD who has stated publicly that they are not working with ICE. Axon is a direct connection to ICE. Axon shares data with it with ICE. It is the same technology as as Flock. It is just as corrupt uh towards ICE and Trump. Both of them are personally benefiting off of these um these funds. So that would mean that the city of Bloomington >> Allen, I'm afraid your time is up. >> directly paying. >> Thank you. Thank you for your comments. Others wishing to speak. >> Good evening. Welcome. >> Good evening. My name is Dan Bell, longtime resident of Bloomington, and I have a slightly differing view on budgets and spending. It seems like it's a pretty minuscule amount and the budget was put together very well by Miss Carlson in terms of understanding where it's spent and how it's spent. But each one of these little pieces that affect the older folks making under $100,000, that's that's a pretty tough barrier to even finance a house and live in a house with that kind of income. And so when it's Bloomington that raises its rates great far greater than the rate of inflation, not maybe in recent years, but what's being proposed is slightly ahead of where the budgets have been. I just think that you have to think about how that money spent, how we can do it more efficiently, and um it just keeps adding up. It's a little piece from Bloomington. It's a bigger piece from Henipin County. It's a bigger piece. Every think time you spend a dollar, it's 10%. And so it really hurts every time you see spending go up. I'm I'm very happy with at least the the thought process that's used in terms of how our money is spent, but I look around the city and I go, "Wow, some of this stuff is pretty done done pretty inefficiently." So I I think there is some opportunities to to do better. So that's all I really have to say. [clears throat] >> I appreciate your comments. Thank you. >> Others. Ry, do we have anyone on the phone wishing to speak? >> Mayor, [clears throat] we do not have anyone online. Last call. Anyone in the chambers? All right. With that, council, I will close our public comment opportunity on item 4.1. And I appreciate the comments made by folks and uh I heard comments. I didn't hear any specific questions and I do appreciate that. Uh Mr. Bell, I appreciate the the it all adds up context is is absolutely right and and I will not deny that. And um Mr. Howlet, the um uh the work, yes, the work that we're trying to make it more equitable. I think we need to we need as a community, but we also need on a broader scale a larger uh look at things. We we need to look at how we pay for things in a more equitable fashion, especially public services. And I don't disagree about the climate emergency discussion. Um and regarding Axon and Flock, um I I don't know that they're direct, you know, they're they're exact cousins or brothers. Um I would have to get back to you on that because I'm not sure exactly. I do know that um I'm BPD specifically would not uh work toward flock didn't want flock for the a variety of reasons. I don't know that uh whether Axon is an equivalent to it. I I just don't know off the top of my head. So thank you council with that information to us. Uh it's up to us now. Uh we've we've got we've had a number of different meetings on this. We've been talking about this for a couple of months now. Uh we're looking at a resolution establishing our preliminary tax levy for the year of 2027 with the understanding as I think we all know and it bears repeating every time that whatever levy we set as a preliminary levy it cannot go up it can come down as we move forward into our budget process here. So, uh, based on what we've heard, uh, based on what we understand where we're sitting right now, uh, at this level, uh, appreciate your comments, council, and and see where we go. Council member Lman. >> Uh, uh, mayor and manager, I had just a a few questions I wanted to just be sure I was clear about, uh, just to kind of make sure I'm framing and understanding this correctly. Um, you know, in terms of the CPI, uh, the 12-month CPIU through August, uh, uh, is about 3.4%. Uh, our proposed le proposed levy is 6.6. 64% roughly twice that. I wanted a clear explanation so that residents could uh follow and understand the municipal cost drivers uh um outpac standard uh inflation. We kind of talked about a little bit of that in there, but just so that uh uh folks could understand that. >> Mr. Walker. >> Yes. Uh thank you, Mayor and Council Member Lman for the question. It's a fair question, but I would say it's probably not the best uh measure. Um CPI is really a measure of uh as defined by the Department of Labor, a market basket of goods across a wide array of com uh consumer items. Um at the city, we're not buying things like beef and milk and eggs. I mean, the fire department might be, but the rest of us. [laughter] Um the the if that was a joke [laughter] freaking out. Um [snorts] instead, we're in the people business. you saw that 74% of our costs are in personnel. So, we are largely tied in our budget to things like uh cost of uh hiring uh and and compensating our employees, health insurance, uh our property and liability insurance for the services that we provide, um commodities and goods for the infrastructure that we maintain uh or add into the city. So, um it's important to continue to monitor our spending. the line is is well taken that it all adds up, but I just that's really not the best apples to apples comparison when you're looking at um city spending and and the cost increases behind it. >> Appreciate that. And with that being said, then with services and quality uh baseline as we reduce the spending to manage the levy, I wanted to confirm that we're not compromising the the service delivery um and that we are holding the line and and that resident satisfaction uh uh stays insulated. Yeah, I I would say uh that as our budget core team uh has deliberated and we've worked with um our staff across the city and getting to this point in the process and again this is not the end of the the process. One of the key tenants for us has been um let's not compromise a really good thing. And in Bloomington, we have really high levels of citizen satisfaction with our services um with the perception of the value that u a resident gets relative to the taxes that they pay. Uh and we want to make sure that while we are continuing to look at ways to contain spending increases, it's happening in such a way that residents aren't noticing a decrease in the number of or quality of services that they're receiving. And I think to this point in the conversation, uh we've met that objective. >> Just a couple more here. Uh the thing I'm most concerned about is unforeseen economic pressures. August alone, uh we saw gasoline prices up 3.9%. Uh we run a plow fleet service and construction programs with the different uh things that we're building. Uh what are our reserve cushions and uh compodity costs if they spike uh mid year or into next year >> in our budget deliberations when we've been uh meeting with um staff and departmental leadership. One of the things I think we have done a good job of uh is um to the degree possible forecasting um those known increases that are there and where those trends could could go. Um so I think we've struck a good balance of um trying to tie our spending to some of those historical averages but also then understanding uh where some of those vulnerabilities and pressures could be. And I would say uh as you dig into the granular detail of the budget uh areas like that that you're referencing do have some forecasted increases built into those. Um of course things are as was referenced by one of the speakers very vulnerable and um um unpredictable at best right now. Um but with the um information that we have available um I think our staff have done a good job of trying to forecast and budget uh in a responsible way for that. >> And then I think finally here I'll just tie these last things together here. um uh you know the uh staff training and retention. I wanted to to just make sure that uh as we look to make these reductions that we're not cutting the the the pipeline development to save short-term dollars uh in a way uh so that we later on have to pay higher wages later on. just wanted to make sure really uh that we're our long-term fiscal sustainability u our resources. We're not just making these short-time cuts here uh in order to make sure that we can still sustain this type of level as we get in through the end of the decade. >> Yeah, good question. And one of the things also that I think our staff have done a good job to this point in in the development process has been to look at historical averages in our spending and find the places where maybe our budget has been higher than um actual spending uh and then try to true up our proposed budget this year closer to what those historical averages have been. >> Thank you, manager and mayor. And based on that, I think I can support this. Council member Carter. >> Thank you, Mayor. Um, I just want to thank the staff for all of their really hard work on this. Um, I think I guess I'll just say personally I'm kind of pleasantly surprised at where we're at for our preliminary tax levy. Um, and I know a lot of really hard diligent work has gone into getting to this number. And I know that you're you're going to continue uh to look for those areas that we can improve efficiencies and reduce costs without compromising our service. And so um really thank you so much. Oh, I also want to thank you because um I I'm thinking about all the feedback that we provided at the last conversation and I think all of it is represented in this this uh presentation tonight. And so thank you for incorporating all of our our desires and what we wanted to see in this discussion. I think you did a really really good job. Um, I also want to thank the residents who showed up again tonight to testify and all the residents who engaged throughout the process. Um, I do have a question based on the comments tonight and and I was wondering it myself because of everything going on at the federal level and and some of the changes that might be happening. What what would we do in an emergency situation should we need um an in like we need we just need to find some additional funding to address XYZ whatever it might be. um or maybe we lose a ton of federal funding because of some of the changes that might be made. Like what what is that um kind of emergency valve that we could pull if something did happen and we needed some additional funds? >> Mr. Walker. >> Uh yes. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Council Member Carter. Uh in those situations, I would say the city would be faced with really um two choices. one would be uh more drastic which would be um are we desiring to continue uh on the budget that we've adopted? Uh and if so then we would need to tap into the city's um reserves uh con consistent of course with our our financial policies and recognizing uh that we need to keep minimum reserve levels. The other option would simply be um immediate reduction of spending, whether that is um ceasing services or hiring freezes or other things like that that would provide um some one-time relief while we got to our next fiscal cycle and then made decisions about uh what we wanted the city's operating budget to look like uh in light of those um drastic changes. >> All right. Thank you. Um, I do also just kind of want to point out that uh we have had a situation like this like when the pandemic hit and we all of a sudden lost a ton of revenue that we were expecting and that's when we had the the citizen advisory board and made lots of hard decisions and and kind of did so did go through a process and so we do have experience um in that kind of situation. Obviously, not a situation any of us want to be in again, but um thank you for that explanation and kind of the reminder that we do have reserves and we we do have the ability to uh modify our budget and our spending should something happen. So, um so thank you for that. Um I do have a couple other questions, but the answers are not going to impact how I vote tonight. And so, um I will be voting in support of this preliminary tax levy. Um, you know, I think we're in a good spot and given everything going on in the country right now, uh, I actually don't know if I'd want to go much lower at this point. Um, so, uh, so I will be supporting tonight. Thank you. >> Thank you, Council Member. >> Council member Delisandro. >> Thanks, Mr. Mayor. I want to echo the appreciation I have for the staff work on pulling this together. I think um I've been an advocate for trying to make sure that people can walk out of these conversations with a clear understanding of what it costs to do what we do today, what it costs for us to make the investments we've been telling people about for a while and then what is it on top of that that we need to consider and what does that do to our levy. So, you know, the fact that we I hopefully everybody who's here tonight listening to us um can walk away answering that question in a very easy way is really important, right? That's the way I think about things too, right? So, um, so I appreciate it very much. Uh, and I know this isn't the end of the line for us. Um, I know that you'll keep working on the pencils with the pencils and everything. So, uh, very much appreciate that. Um, there's one question on the strategic side around our fire department work that I wanted to throw out there as something that maybe we can bring into the context of of that as we continue to work on refining that investment. And that is just simply that I I think we've talked a little bit about the fact that the that you know it does cost us something to not have the full-time fire department that we have. It may cost us in our insurance costs. It cost us in the potential for economic, you know, distress associated with not meeting our obligations from SLA perspective and all that kind of stuff. And so I'm wondering if there's a chance for us to like look at those in comparison to say like this investment is also going to offset operationally long term um some of these downstream impacts. So I just haven't asked that question before and it it feels like something that that [snorts] when we think about these strategic projects, we might want to think about how why we've chosen to make the investments. I think the thread has been lost a little bit because we started the conversation on the fire department way back in 2022 or whatever about why we decided to do this and it came down to the fact that we couldn't run a truck meaningfully with enough staff to meet our obligations not just from a a a legal perspective or an insuranceoriented perspective but a moral one frankly like a you know an ethical one right and so and so you know how do we continue to make sure folks understand that each of these these investments that they're we're making whether they're capital or operational are against that that thing, right? No different really than the climate conversation or the federal conversation should we have to come back and say here's what happened to the money that we thought we would have. It went away because of XYZ policy. Now we have to do something differently. And if we can continue to make sure that those threads are clear, um you know, it it's it's a you'll have to agree with it, but at least you can explain it. And I think that that's a really important thing. I like to be able to walk out of here being able to say this is why we're doing what we're doing. So happy to support this today knowing that it won't it's not the end of the conversation, but a really well done, thoughtful perspective. I'm hoping this implies that priority based budgeting is actually working right now. So I'd love to hear more about that at some point, too. Thanks. >> Thank you, Council Member. >> Others, Council Member Robertson. >> Thank you, Mayor. I'll do my best to keep it brief. Um, to echo what my colleagues are saying, I think um I'm pleasantly surprised to to use uh Council Member Carter's uh phrase um at where the number is, I'm happy to support this today. Certainly um saying the same as Council Member Dellesandro. This isn't the end of the conversation. Um I'm really really I have to say very impressed uh by all the work that's gone into this. And this um I just have to note on page 182 of the council packet um that beautiful graphic that I know council member Dellesandro is a huge fan of as well. Um for me at least that was a great visual to help understand where all the money is going, why it has to increase at all. Um and I just thought that was really great. So um certainly again this isn't the end of the conversation. Um, and I think bringing up the concerns about um, potential change in energy costs is huge and something we really need to be talking about all the time, especially with the news over just the past few days. Um, and so again, I I think this is a good uh, jumping off point. It's not the end of things. I think this is really really helpful information and I certainly appreciate um, the folks who came out to to speak to us tonight. Um, we appreciate your time and so yeah, I'm happy to support this as it is and I'm also uh, excited to see where the conversation goes. Thank you, council member. >> Well, my two cents, council, uh it it boils down to actually a couple of numbers, and you've heard me say them before. Uh that 81% of our budget goes to police, fire, public works, community development, park, and recreation. Those are the five absolute cornerstone building blocks of what city government should do. And 81% of our budget goes to that. And of that total budget, more than 70% goes to people. We're we don't make widgets. We provide services as a city. And those services are provided by by our city employees and by our people. And that that's where those costs come from. And that's if we expect that type of uh service delivery that we uh have come to expect as residents. We're all residents. We've come to expect that service delivery uh within our city. That's what that's what the cost of doing it is. Uh the one uh comment that I would make uh I I'm still it to see our our debt load continue to increase but now to taking the steps to reduce that debt load. I appreciate that with our new uh fund and I forgotten what we renamed it the the debt reduction fund or however we named it. Uh I think that's that's a that that's a a positive step forward and I think it's a a better use of that fund rather than to use it as a strategic priorities fund. I like that as a use of it and frankly wonder if we had used it in that way over the past 10 years what would we be looking at right now in terms of our overall debt and it might be a little different. Um so I think there's work to be done on that but overall I think this is uh this is a a good starting point as we continue this conversation and a good place for us to jump off on with an official stamp and move forward with all of this. and council. If there's no more comments on this, council member Lman. >> All right. Mayor, I'll move to adopt a resolution um of the preliminary uh levy establishing a tax levy for the city of Bloomington for the year 2027. >> Second. >> Motion by council member Lman. Second by council member Robertson to adopt a resolution establishing tax levies for the city of Bloomington for the year of 2027. No further council discussion on this. Miss Ray >> Carter I. >> Tallesandro >> I. >> Rias >> I. >> Nelson >> I. >> Lman. >> Hi. >> Robertson. >> I may >> I. Motion carries 70. Uh, with item 4.1 comes item 4.2. Council member Lman. Mayor, I'll move a resolution adopting a preliminary 2027 general fund budget. >> Second. >> Motion by council member Lman, second by council member Robertson to adopt a preliminary 2027 general fund budget. No further council discussion on this. >> Miss Right. >> Carter. >> Ilesandro. >> Hi. >> Reebas. >> I >> Nelson. >> Hi. >> Lman. >> Hi. >> Robertson. >> I may >> I. Motion carries 70. And one more. Council uh council member Dallas. Mr. Mayor, I apologize. I just wanted to make sure because because of the way that it was presented, we had it 6.64% was the number, but that was 6.24 plus than the HA and and Port Authority levies. So, so I if I can just get a clarification on what exactly we're passing for the city of Bloomington versus that. I I know that some stuff was in our our um consent agenda as well. So, I just wanted to lay it out if that's okay. >> Absolutely. Thanks. >> I can answer that question. Uh, mayor, council members, council member Dellesandro, they actually happen to be the exact same percentage when you do the combined and the city by itself, just how the math works out. >> Thank you. Appreciate it. So clarification for that then is 6.64 is the preliminary. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. >> Very good. We have a second half of item 4.2 where we need a uh a motion for the uh conceptual preliminary 2028 general fund budget. >> Thank you, Council Member Lman. >> Thank you for clarifying that for me. I didn't see that. Uh, mayor, I'll move to adopt a resolution approving a conceptual preliminary 2028 general fund budget. >> Second. >> Motion by council member Lman, second by council member Robertson to accept the resolution approving a conceptual preliminary 2028 general fund budget. No further council discussion on this. Council member Lman. >> And just uh just so we're clear, I know I heard it during the presentation um about the uh 2028 uh general fund conceptual budget that that is in itself just conceptual. It's not binding. I I think that's that's what conceptual means. Yes, that's exactly right. Just want to clarify that preliminary. If we could put another wiggle word in there, we would. Absolutely. [laughter] >> All right. Any further council discussion on this? >> If not, Miss Ry >> Carter, >> Iandro, I Nelson, >> hi. >> Lman, >> hi. >> Robertson, I >> Motion carries 70. Thank you to our budget staff for their work on this. Uh, and as I think has been said a couple of times, thanks for your response to the council uh, request for different presentation, different looks at things. The way it looks, I think it's uh, you met the council's needs on a lot of things and I appreciate that. Thank you to our folks who spoke this evening and looking forward to continue this discussion. We'll have additional opportunities for public comment and public hearings as we move through all of this and uh, appreciate that we're I think headed in a pretty good direction here and with more work to do. certainly with more work to do. Thank you, Miss Carlson. >> Thank you, >> Council. Next on our agenda, uh are a series of public hearings uh regarding assessments. And we do this on an annual basis. It's an opportunity for uh the city to to to move and act on delinquent uh assessments or tree removal assessments and so on. So what we'll do is typically uh we'll we'll have the public we'll we'll have a presentation on this and I believe all the presentations will come as one and uh yes they will all come as one and then we will have public hearings on all all of the different ones. So item 4.3 through item 4.7 we'll break those out and have specific uh public hearings on that but the presentation will be all rolled into one. Miss economy shoulder who has done this many times and knows how to lead us through this very well uh will be doing just that. So, good evening and welcome. >> Good evening, Mayor and Council. Um, with the items that you have before you, the five of them. Um, our agenda this evening is just a quick um quickly going through the different definitions of what the assessment types are, the timelines that we used in 2026 and um then we'll go through the public hearings. And as mayor mentioned, each of these will be separate hearings. So in the definitions the delinquent utilities cover water, sewers, storm drain, garbage, recycling and organics. In the tree removal and it's the removal of dead or diseased trees. For the weeds and brush removal, it's mowing, weeds and brush removal, public nuisance and abatement, property conditions declared to be nuisance affecting public's peace, welfare and safety. And then civil fines, nuisance, surface calls, and administration penalties and orders. And then the Wait, went too fast. On the timeline, um, all of the assessments were mailed and sent out on July 1st, which is a state statute date, right, for us. Um on August 13th we published in the sun current at the notice of all the legal advertisements. On August 26th there was a administrative hearing held here at the city and there was a a neutral third party administrative judge taking care of that. And then this evening we have the council assessment hearings and then November 24th would be the last day to make the payments on those before they get certified onto the property taxes for next year. And so we'll start with a public hearing first for delinquent utilities. And that would be the motion, but I'll go back one for the public hearing piece on that. Thank you, Miss Economy. Shoulder council. Any questions or comments regarding what we just heard? As I said, pretty uh straightforward kind of thing, and we've we've done this in the past. So, what we will do then is go through each of the different public hearings, and everybody will have the opportunity to come up and speak if uh if you have something in specific uh that you want to talk about. Uh and we will just work our way through all of this. So, we're going to start with item 4.3 is our public hearing for delinquent water, sewer, storm water, drainage, uh garbage, recycling, and organics assessments. I will open that public hearing now. Is there anyone in the council chambers who wishes to speak to item 4.3 this evening? >> Miss Ry, do we have anyone on the phone? >> Mayor, we do have someone online. >> Caller with phone number 5077. >> Do you wish to speak on public hearing 4.3? >> Um, I have a general comment. I'm not sure which one it is. Um, it's regarding exhibit B on page 254. Um, and the dismissals of debt. Um, and I'm wondering why the city isn't somehow recording that debt to ensure that when a property is sold that the title company or the closing company um, uncovers it. And um should the city be doing something differently to ensure those fines are known when a property sells? Um and one thing I thought of is if I assume they would find water, trash, sewer debt um when they do their title search. Um, and if that's the case, could any sort of fine somehow be added to the utility system to ensure any other kinds of debts show up? Um, it just seems ridiculous to be letting someone sell a property without um paying those fines or resolving in some way. That's all I have to say. >> Uh, thank you. Could you could you identify yourself so we have it for the record, please? >> Marlo Johansson. Marlo, thank you very much for your comments. Uh, officially this is part of item 4.7. So, I appreciate that you uh >> we're on 4.3 and this is part of of item 47 and and I appreciate you bringing this forward. What I'm going to do uh you asked a good question there and what I'm going to do is is look down the table here to our uh city attorneys and and see if they can work on an answer by the time we get to item 4.7 when it's appropriate to answer that. We will definitely do just that if that would be okay. But I appreciate you bringing this up. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Is there anyone in the chambers wishing to speak to item 4.3? Mr. Hock. So I needed some time to think about it. Um, so for this one specifically, I feel like I feel as though debt forgiveness, there should be a path for debt forgiveness on this one specifically. Um, essentially copying there's a policy in Denver. There's a policy in Aurora, Colorado. There's a um there's now I think an entire state policy in Colorado as well as several other southwestern um states that will pay you to convert your lawn. So, it's a different it's a different program than the lottery system that Minnesota currently has for grants. And it pays you, I think, like $14 an hour or sorry, $14 a square foot to convert your lawn. And [snorts] if we adopted a a program that's like this, water uses usage would assuredly go down and it could build a pathway for people to do it themselves. Uh I I'm looking specifically actually what really inspired this was the storm water drainage section. So there's actually an ability um to do a curb cut for a rain garden. And if you do a curb cut for a rain garden, it costs you, the homeowner, whoever owns the cur or whoever's at the curb, uh about $800 to do. So that's a pretty steep thing, but that's also it also essentially um removes the need for watering anymore. So for residents who want to have an out to if they get if they get into debt for this, the path to debt or to to um remove that debt uh could be a payment plan or something like that. But one version of that payment plan could be to be lawn conversion into native plants, which is now legal. I've worked on that ordinance. Um, and I can assure anyone if you have an established native garden, uh, you don't need to water it anymore. So, that solves the problem in perpetuity, uh, after it's done, which seems like a pretty good solution. >> Thank you, Mr. Howlet. Others wishing to speak to it inem 4.3 right anybody new online >> we do not have anyone new online >> council we've heard from folks in the chambers we have no one online or on the phone wishing to speaking no one coming forward I look for a motion to close the public hearing on item 4.3 >> motion by council member Dallasandro second by council member Rivas to close the public hearing on item 4.3 >> no further council discussion on Miss Right. >> Carter. >> Hi. >> Dallasro. >> Hi. >> Reeas. >> Hi. >> Nelson. >> Hi. >> Lman. >> Hi. >> Robertson. >> Hi. >> Mayor Basy. >> I. Motion carries. 70. Closing the public hearing. Uh, council. Any comments or or thoughts on this? I uh I I would turn to staff and hope they took notes on on what Mr. Howlet brought forward on uh possible debt forgiveness. I think it would be something at least worth looking into uh at least as as a consideration for the city. uh not this year obviously as we're trying to work through this year. Uh with that council, I would look for action on item 4.3 or questions. Council member Dallas. >> No, I if if you don't mind me making a a comment, Mr. Mayor, but I'm happy to move the item as well. Um yeah, I I I think the last the one of the challenges I think we've talked about in the past on this is to try to understand why this happens in the first place, right? Because I think that I think that to to to you know if it if it is about lawn water you know usage if it is about um you know um um inability to pay due to economic factors if it's you know there's lots of things that that that could come into this. I think early on in my in my time here I even said would it be possible for me to round up my utility bill and put that towards a fund to help people offset their bills. Right? We've talked I know I talked with with uh Miss Conamy Scherer about that early on in my in my tenure here. You know there are there are absolutely ways to do this but I one of the challenges we have is simply that we don't know why this is occurring for people. And that's a hard question to ask people. It's a hard question to ask why are they having trouble paying their bills. Some people just don't want to pay them. That's fine. But some people do and can't. And you know understanding that distinction is an is is an equity consideration to some degree. So anyway, I would encourage us to continue to um to look at ways we can mitigate this problem, whether it's providing them with the capacity to reduce the utility use in the first place. Um y'all know I have two rain gardens and a 20 solar panels. So I am definitely on board with the with that piece of the puzzle here. But um so I try to lead by example on that front. But it it also it also does make a difference to the um I have not watered my lawn this year at all. I haven't. Doesn't look great, but I don't care, >> you know, but it but it's nice and clean and uh you know, and uh butterflies and bees like it. So [snorts] anyway, I just say that because I think that that there are options for everyone and and a little bit goes a long way when the community as a whole is doing it. So with that, I'd be very happy to make the motion to adopt the assessment role for delinquent water, sewer, storm water drainage, garbage recycling, and organics utility charges. Motion by council member Dalisandro, second by council member Rivas to adopt the resolution uh for the assessment role for delinquent water, storm, sewer, storm water drainage, garbage, recycling, and organics utility charges. No further council discussion on this. >> Miss Ry, >> Carter, >> I >> Reas, >> Nelson, >> hi. >> Lman, >> hi. >> Robertson, >> I may >> I motion carries 70. We'll move on to item 4.4. This is a another public hearing. This is regarding our tree removal assessments. >> And I will open the uh and we do have three different motions on this. Uh we do have uh these assessments as people get their trees removed. Uh the city can do it and then we have options for people to have those tree removal costs spread over three, five or 10 years. This I think is in response to a couple of years ago we realized just how expensive it was to remove a lot of those uh dying ash trees and uh opted to give folks this opportunity to be able to spread the cost out over a number of years and uh that continues because we continue to remove trees and lose trees in our yards. Uh but this is uh the the public hearing regarding this and then the tree removal costs that come with that. So with that I will open the public hearing on item 4.4. Is there anyone who wishes to speak on item 4.4 this evening regarding tree removal assessments >> Mr. H? >> Yep. For sure. So, [snorts] uh there is a company called um Oh my gosh, am I really going to forget it right now? Um there is a tree company and I can't remember Whole Trees. So, there's a tree comp or sorry, there is a company based in Wisconsin called Whole Trees. Uh, wh o l e. I don't know why I got flustered on a spelling me there. Um, so whole trees will buy your tree. It will buy your tree. Not just pay, it will pay for the removal. It will buy your tree if it meets certain criteria that they're looking for because what they are trying to do is take a tree and use it as bofilic architecture that we could we could have been using for our community center or any other future type of thing. So essentially what they are doing, they're grabbing your tree. They're trying to sell it and put it into a nicel looking building or structure. >> It's a great it's a great thing to do. We should absolutely be doing it. It could save people thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars. That's number one. The second thing you can do is turn it into biochar or uh activated charcoal. Activated charcoal super super valuable. Uh great for sequestering carbon that we are currently wasting. Um and you can use it to uh clean water. In fact, I think I saw somebody um make a post or or comment about um how they're concerned about Bush Lake. Obviously, there's been a huge debate about um 9 mile creek and if I had more time, I'd definitely get into uh the Minnesota River. Um but all of these type of things they don't have enough funding to really solve. It's extremely expensive to do and um it's a cost-saving measure that we should be taking advantage of. So, um, whole trees, activated charcoal, biochar, do all three of them. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Howlet. >> Others in the chambers wishing to speak to item 4.4. Miss Ry, do we have anyone on phone on the phone? >> Mayor, we do not have anyone online. >> Last call for anybody in the chambers. >> Council, no one in the chambers coming forward. No one on the phone wishing to speak to item 4.4. We look for a p uh for a motion to close the public hearing on item 4.4. Four. >> Second. >> Motion by council member Riva, second by council by member Robertson to close the public hearing item 4.4. No further council discussion on this. Miss Ry >> Carter. >> I sorry about that. >> Dallasro. >> Reeas. >> I >> Nelson. >> Hi. >> Lman. >> Hi. >> Robert. Robertson. >> Hi. >> Mayor Basy >> I. Motion carries 70. Council. Any thoughts on this? any conversation we need to have on this one? >> Uh, no. I'm just going to endorse, Mr. Mayor, everything that Matt says because I like it. >> Uh, no. To be serious, I do I do think that there's opportunities for innovation all around here and we should be unearthing, no pun intended, all of them. >> I don't disagree. We can take a look into things. Absolutely. >> Right on. Yeah. >> Yep. >> Happy to make the motion if you'd like. >> Council member Dallasro. >> All right. Um, I'm moving a resolution adopting the assessment role for tree removal cost three-year levy. >> Motion by council member Dalisandro, second by council member Robertson to adopt the resolution uh for assessment role for the tree removal cost for the three-year levy. >> Can I do all three of them? It says and on here, so I wasn't sure if that >> I think we have to do them individually. >> Okay, perfect. >> Yep. >> No further council discussion on this. Miss Riot >> Carter >> I. Talisandro >> I >> Reebas >> I >> Nelson >> I >> Lman >> I >> Robertson >> I >> Mayor Busy >> I motion carries 70 council member Disandro >> I will move to a resolution adopting the assessment role for tree removal costs 5-year levy >> second >> motion by council member Dalisandro second by council member Robertson for the resolution adopting the assessment role for tree removal cost and the five-year levy no further council discussion rye >> Carter Ilesandro >> I reasi Nelson. Hi, >> Lman. Hi, >> Robertson. Hi, >> Mayor Busy. >> I motion carries 70 and council member Dalisandro. >> Last one. Uh, resolution adopting the assessment role for tree removal cost 10-year levy. Second >> motion by council member Dalisandro, second by council member Robertson to adopt the resolution for the assessment role for the tree removal cost and a 10-year levy. No further council discussion. All those in I'm sorry, Miss Ry [laughter] >> Carter. >> Hi, >> Jallesandro. I Rias >> I >> Nelson >> Hi >> Lman >> Hi >> Robertson I >> Mayor Busy >> I motion carries 70. >> Item 4.5 is our next >> Item 4.5 is our next public hearing. This is regarding weed and brush removal assessments. Pretty straightforward there I believe. I will open the public hearing at item 4.5 for our weed and brush removal assessments. Is there anyone in the council chambers wishing to speak to item 4.5? Miss Ry, are there anyone on the phone? May >> we do not have anyone online? >> Last call for anyone in the chambers. >> Council, no one coming forward. No one on the phone wishing to speak. I'll look for a public or I look for a motion to close the public hearing on item 4.5. >> Motion by council member Robertson, second by council member Rivas to close the public hearing on item 4.5. No further council discussion on this. Miss Ry >> Carter. Hi >> Dallasandro. >> Hi >> Rivas. >> Hi >> Nelson. >> Hi >> Lman. >> Hi >> Robertson. >> Hi >> Mayor Basy. >> Hi. Motion carries 70. Closing the public hearing. Council, any thoughts on this one? >> Council member Robertson. >> Oh, sure. Oh, I'm moving it. Okay. Thank you, Mayor. I Well, I didn't know. Uh, I've moved to adopt um the resolution adopting the assessment role for weed and brush removal costs. >> Second. Motion by council member Robertson. Second by council member Lman to adept the assessment role for rush removal cost. >> No further council discussion on this. Miss Ry >> Carter >> I. >> Allesandro >> I. >> Reebas. >> Nelson. >> Hi. >> Lman. >> Robertson. >> I may >> I motion carries 70. Item 4.6 is our public hearing regarding the public nuisance abase abatement assessments. Miss economy shoulder explained this one. Council, any questions on this? If not, I will open the public hearing on item 4.6. This is a public hearing regarding the public nuisance abatement assessment. Anyone in the chambers wishing to speak to item 4.6 this evening. >> Good evening. Thank you for your patience with us. >> Good evening. >> If you could uh pull the microphone down so there you go. Thank you, sir. >> Uh my name is Muhammad Abd. Uh I lived in Minnesota for 47 years. uh 36 years in Bloomington. I live in a corner of 86 and road and and avenue. Uh for the last 36 years, we've been collecting the uh leaf after uh the tree like these days. Uh we put them in a bag and uh we uh remove some uh and we keep some we keep some using for uh to prevent the the raft from getting into our bat because our our house is in the corner of 12th Avenue and 86. So we use the leave boot like about three. >> Could we please have the overhead camera please? And if you put your piece of paper right there. >> Oh, no. >> There it is. >> Okay. >> Here's the house. >> And then >> here's my house. Okay. Here is my bat. We collect some of the leaves in a bag in a garbage bag. uh like a black bags, put them in the front of the vat to prevent the draft getting into uh the house to try to save some money for the heat during the winter. Uh unfortun Unfortunately, last winter uh about January, I had uh to go to Egypt. My mother was so sick she's dying. I had to leave. So we went me and my wife we only me and my wife live in the house. We went to Egypt and uh we didn't realize that gonna cause a lot of problem. Uh somehow uh an inspector or whatever pass by and and see that he uh got one of the uh guide to remove these bags and he send it to me notice but we were not here. If I'm here, I will remove otherwise it's a big problem. Anyway, they send too many to too many notice. We are not here. Unfortunately, we came back and uh the guy it called Kovi uh handy serviceman. He uh charge $155 for nine bags. Nine bags. Nine leaf bag. You see over nine leaf bag. And he charged $155. And it's he said it according to the paper here. According to the B he said that here according to his paper it's one and a half hour to move nine leaf bag. That mean 10 minute for each bag. That mean you go outside this building and come back 10 minutes. Okay. And [laughter] that no not that only he charge a $75 an hour. $75 an hour. In my 47 years I never made $75 an hour. I never so $75 then that mean each bag is 17 20 cents. $17 and 20 cents for each leaf of bag. That unbelievable. And nobody in the city asked that guy, "Where did he do? What did you do with one and a half hour? What did you do with $155?" Can you believe it? >> So, and now this is part of the assessment rule. Is that correct? >> Yes, sir. >> It is. Okay. >> Yes. $155 for nine le I appreciate that. We're going to finish the public hearing and then we'll discuss this. But I I appreciate you bringing this forward and I think maybe we can we can find a way we can find a path forward here for this. But please Yep. I appreciate you bringing this forward and we're you're out of time now, but but I'm gonna have to >> Minnesota is the best state in the whole world. >> Thank you. >> And I love the justice here. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else wishing to speak on item 4.6 this evening? You're killing me. you. >> I didn't catch your name. >> Muhammad. >> Muhammad. Thank you. So, Muhammad actually inspired me a little bit because um one thing I didn't get to mention or forgot to mention was that the organics recycling is going to be extremely important next year. And his specific issue with his leaves um has multiple different solutions. Obviously, I think you guys are going to talk about the policy one, but he can either leave them in the yard garden, chuck them in there, that usually doesn't catch any vines or anything like that. It shouldn't cuz native gardens do it all the time. Um, it's a very common way of, uh, overwintering a any type of garden. But um and you're going to hear this in the next listening session that I'm at um with the risk and the brittleleness of our food system specifically with how logistics is going to work in the future, how El Nino is going to impact us. And there's a lot of stuff that's up in the air that I'm waiting basically this week to see as to how it's going to land before I get an accurate idea uh to what to tell you. Um but in his case and with our volunteer core which is growing there is opportunity to say hey this is organic material we need to get it we need to put it someplace else it could be used for something right that doesn't cost anything if people can actually uh get connected and do that type of work. I'm willing to do it. I know plenty of other people are going to be willing to do it. There's going to be a lot more people who are going to want to do it next year. Thanks. >> Thank you Mr. Howlet. Others wishing to speak. Miss Ray, do we have anyone on the phone? >> Mayor, we do have someone online wishing to speak. >> Caller with phone number starting with 5077. Do you wish to speak on item 4.6 >> comment? It it really applies to all these points. 4.1 through 4.7. If if there's been a fine or assessment made, then it should be done in a way that it shows up for closing or title company searches. >> I'm sorry. Could you could you give us your name? Could Could you provide your name for us, please? >> This was Marus again. >> Marus. Yes. Uh >> okay. Uh I I do know that I I think ultimately if if uh we have unpaid uh assessments that does show up and and it is paid upon the sale of the home. So I appreciate uh I appreciate you bringing that up. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Others council, no one no longer on the phone and no one coming forward wishing to speak on item 4.6. I'd look for a motion to close the public hearing on item 4.6. Second >> motion by council member Dalisandro second by council member Robertson to close the public hearing on a 4.6. No further council discussion on this. Miss Ry >> Carter. >> Hi >> Allesandro. >> Hi >> Rivas. >> Hi >> Nelson. >> Hi >> Lman. >> Hi >> Robertson. >> Hi >> Mayor Busy. >> I motion carries 70. Council, any discussion on item 4.6? Council member Elisandro. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. This is probably a comment related to this one in maybe 4.7, but this is where the the the I'm We are on 4.6, right? Yeah. So, so there's there part of me, we we say at the city of Bloomington that we work towards compliance, right? The goal is towards compliance. And what I'm a little nervous about with the fairly sharp uptick on both this one and I could guess I could say the same thing related to 4.7 uptick in the number of fines that we're going to assessments with is that that may not be working. And I I I want to be I want to be I want to make sure that if we think that we should be doing something different, uh I'm not a huge fan, as you know already, Mr. Mayor, of having laws we don't intend to enforce. [laughter] I I don't know why they're on the books if we're not going to enforce them, right? And and and the intent of these things is to ensure compliance, but there's a a mismatch if people can um not not comply and paying the fines or not paying the fines doesn't necessarily ensure that they're actually cleaning up the act anyway, right? And so given given the uptick in the number of folks that are going to assessment here, plus the uptick in the number I I shouldn't say I know that there's an uptick, but given the number of people that have contacted me in the last year with concerns in these two spaces specifically, I I don't know if we have an opportunity potentially in an upcoming, you know, year work plan item to like look at this particular section of our of our system and and whether or not we can do a little bit better for it. Um it uh it's just been uh something that my my my constituents have have stated more often. Um and I don't know if people are unwilling to pay the fines whether they're actually doing the work of compliance anyway and that makes me a little concerned. So >> thank you. Um thank you council member. >> Yep. No worries. Thank you. >> Council member Lman. >> Uh thank you mayor. Uh, so just kind of looking at this uh situation kind of kind of directly here. Um, you know, my my numbers aren't aren't aren't adding up. So I need a little bit of help with that. I'm seeing something like uh if I got the numbers right, I think I saw like 14250. Um, uh, maybe there's some other piece that I'm I'm missing. Maybe there's some kind of administrative piece that gets it up to 150. But uh uh if we had uh nine nine bags and uh we're just you know a couple of us council members were up here looking to see uh what that would have cost uh if we had charged the bag fee which would have been 481. Um, which I know these are again, you know, mayor, two different services. I know for removing something that's, you know, completely different kind of thing, but just trying to get a picture for what this might cost. Uh, if our um, you know, if our service had picked up, it'd be$4.81 a bag. And so if we did dime by that, uh, 4329 again, just the bag pickup itself. And I don't you know so just trying to figure out you know kind of you know and certainly we could um uh try to uh eliminate the whole thing um uh given the circumstances uh you know that he was in um and his family was in uh it wouldn't have gotten the notification anyways and I think there's some good sense to kind of doing that or uh you know alternatively maybe another way to do it is well yeah that's true but you know there is a cost to to doing doing this. And so maybe one way to go would be to do the 4.81 per bag. I'm kind of open both ways, but I wanted to just kind of throw a couple ideas out there uh so we could kind of kick it around and see what kind of makes sense uh moving forward. >> Other thoughts? Member Nelson. >> Yeah, thanks Mayor. Um, so am I right to understand the bags were just sitting against the house? They were >> the the bushes on the bottom. If you can see the picture. >> You can see the picture. The the bags were like preventing Yeah. No, but they were put on the patio afterwards. From what I understand, the bags were actually in the bushes preventing the wind from blowing towards a house. That's what the purpose of the bags being at the location that he had him. What I don't understand is how some of the bags are still there and four of them are at the door. Um, that's the one part I didn't quite get and I don't want to run this video too long, but that's what I got myself >> cuz I was looking at the photo with the the door. >> It looked like they were trying to be like a barrier. >> That's what I understood it to be as well. So, yep. So yeah, you know, I'm sympathetic to the situation and and I think there's a reasonable way to work this out. Um I also would just um note that um maybe we should connect him with our team that can get him in touch with Excel because they will come and do an energy audit and they will provide you uh things to stop that wind to weatherproof that door and help you out with those things. So you got a more permanent solution than utilizing your leaves and stuff. And it's a, you know, it's a good way, it's a good thing to do for your entire home, but there are programs that'll help you with that. And so, I just want to make sure he's aware [clears throat] of that. I think we can help with that. Um, you know, I was looking at with council member Lman. And, you know, I mean, [clears throat] if we sent if if he had been in a position to make the phone call to get those bags picked up, it would have cost him $4.81 a bag >> uh for the city service to do that. And somebody did come pick them up. But I don't know why we're allowing somebody to charge more than what our our fee is for picking up a a leaf bag. >> I don't disagree. And I and I also question why this became such an urgent issue. It looked like that that bill was marked in March. I don't know why it's an urgent issue to be picking up, you know, bags in in March. It's uh I I I I would agree. I'm I'm sympathetic to this also based on the circumstances. I I do understand from staff that the fine was was waved has already been waved. Um but I I do think it might be appropriate to to to wave the the cost of the removal as well because I just I think extenduating circumstances and I guess I'm not exactly sure why this became an issue in in March of the year. We good with that? So, what we will do then, uh, staff, I'm going to make the motion that we, uh, adopt the resolution adopting the assessment role for public nuisance abatements, exempting the, uh, uh, the, uh, the, uh, assessment at 8724 Crest Road. >> I will make that motion. Second >> motion and a second by council member um by council member Lman to accept the resolution for the assumpt role for the public nuisance abasements uh while exempting 8724 Crest Road. Any further council discussion on this hearing? None. Miss Ry >> Carter. >> I >> Reas hi >> Nelson. >> Hi >> Lis. Hi >> Robertson. I mayor busy >> I motion carries 70. Thank you very much. >> Thank you very much. Appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Our last public hearing on this topic is item 4.7. This is regarding civil fines for property related violation assessments. I will open the public hearing on item 40 4.7 right now regarding civil fines for property related violation assessments. Is there anyone in the council chambers wishing to speak to 4.7 tonight? Miss Ry, do we have anyone on the phone? Well, >> we do not have anyone new online. >> Last call for anybody in the chambers. If not, council, I will look for a motion to close the public hearing on it on 4.7. >> So moved. >> Motion by council member Lman, second by council member Rivas to close the public hearing on item 4.7. No further discussion on this. Ms. Ry >> Carter. >> Hi. >> Dlesandro. >> Hi. >> Reebas. >> Hi. >> Nelson. >> Hi. >> Lman. >> Hi. >> Robertson. >> Hi. >> Mayor Basi. >> I. Motion carries. 70. Council. Any thoughts on this? Questions? Council member Dallas. >> I just wanted to make sure that the caller I think I think the the reason the caller said what they did, Mr. for mayor is because in the packet it states clearly that the reason behind the waiver of the um assessment in certain cases was because the prior the the the it was assessed by the at the prior owner and the new owner didn't know anything about it so we waved it which implies that it isn't getting dealt with at title and that's why I believe that the question was asked. So, I would like for us to potentially just take a deeper look at that and make sure we understand how that works, unless uh council has a thought. >> I I think that's that that's a good point, council member. Uh Miss Mandershide, >> mayor, members, um this is largely a timing matter. Uh so when assessments are in their pending stage, what is very common practice in the industry is that the realtor or the title company or someone calls the city and we tell them we tell them about all the different pending assessments that might be on the property and uh they do what they do with that information. Uh and so often those are caught and captured and reflected in the final um paperwork. uh when that comes on later in the year, it gets picked up in this part of the process. Um but there is a period of time just based on the assessment schedule where some of those charges are sitting there pending. So um we do our best to share all that information, but they have to reach out. We can't keep track of every single sale that's pending. >> Understood. Is there an opportunity for us to add any details around this to the time of sale disclosures that we do? I know we do it for energy disclosures today or whatever. I was curious whether or not I mean is it is it I agree with you that it's um the burden shouldn't be on us to get that. And so what you're basically saying is there's no requirement that that's disclosed. We will disclose it to the the purchaser. Um if they request it, but we are not under obligation to provide it. >> Yeah. Mayor members, we would certainly always provide it whenever we were asked. We just don't know when there are pending. >> So um they reach out. We always share the information uh and then it's reflected typically in the closing statements and you know it gets sorted out and in the closing process. So um we share everything we have. Um we can certainly look into whether it's possible to put something specific in the time of sale process if it isn't already there. I haven't had the opportunity to look. >> Sure. I it might be a way to to do that. The open question would be whether or not the city deserves to recoup those dollars which I think we're saying we do which is why we do this in the first place. Thanks, Mr. Mayor. >> Thank you, Council Member Nelson. >> Yeah, just I'd point out that in a real estate transaction, the seller is obligated to provide all material information. And I would think that would be all potential assessments and costs and things like that. They have a um affirmative duty to do that. So, if they don't do that, that's on them, not us. >> Thank you, council member. With that aside, council, any other questions, comments on this? If not, I'd look for action on it in 4.7. >> Sure. Happy to make the M motion. Mr. Mayor Dellesandro. >> Um, this is a uh moving a resolution adopting the assessment role for unpaid civil penalties and fines. >> Motion by council member Dalisandro, second by council member Robertson to adopt the assessment role for unpaid civil penalties and fines. No further council discussion on this. Miss Ry >> Carter, Iandro. I >> Rivas >> hi >> Nelson. >> Hi >> Lman. >> Hi >> Robertson. >> Hi. >> Mayor Busy >> I. Motion carries 70. >> Thank you very much for that Miss Economy Scher and thanks for our staff who stuck around to uh to lead us through this as necessary. Uh we will move on to item 4.8. And thank you for the patience of the folks who are here for that item. And I know there's more than a couple of you. What I'm going to do council because I know this is going to take us more than a half hour. I'm going to move that we extend our uh adjournment time to no later than 9:30 this evening. And I will make that motion. >> Second. >> Motion and a second to extend our adjournment time to no later than 9:30. >> No further council discussion. Miss Ry >> Carter >> I. >> Dallasandro I. >> Rivas. >> Nelson. >> Hi. >> Lman >> Lman has stepped away. >> Robertson I >> Maybi >> I. Motion carries 6, extend to no later than 9:30. With that, uh we will move on to item 4.8. This is a public hearing regarding the James Avenue City Homes resoning the final site and building plans planning for 9025 and 9033 James Avenue. Miss OD, you're with us once again regarding one of these. Thank you. >> I am. Yes. Thank you, mayor and city council members. The last public hearing on your agenda is for uh James Avenue City Homes. Uh the subject property address is 9025 and 9033 James Avenue South. Uh just located off 90th Street and James Avenue just a little bit north of City Hall here. Surrounding land uses um are mostly single family uh dwellings with a place of assembly directly to the east and some uh industrial properties further to the south. So the applicant is requesting a series of entitlements. The first including a resoning from R1 to R3, final site and building plans to construct uh nine detached town homes and then a plat uh to replplat two single family residential lots into nine detached town home lots and one outlot. So the subject properties are guided as medium density residential in the comp plan. The subject properties have been guided this way um in multiple comprehensive plan iterations going back as far as 1981. Uh the guidance allows a minimum of five units an acre up to uh 15 units an acre and the proposed density is uh 9 units an acre. Uh so the two single family homes are currently zoned R1 single family residential. the applicant is choosing to reszone to R3 which is consistent with the land use guidance. Uh so staff reviews the purpose and intent of the R3 um zoning district and so the R3 zoning district allows up to 12 units an acre. It's consistent with the existing land use guidance. Uh detached town homes are similar in design uh with single family dwellings. So therefore, it's compatible with nearby lowdensity residential. Uh these properties are close in proximity to 35W as well as 90th Street is a close proximity to Logan Play and then uh directly to Place of Assembly and Industrial Area to the south and it's also worth mentioning that 90th and Penn and 90th and Lindale um are also very close by. So [clears throat] the when evaluating resoning applications there are no uh state statute findings. Uh therefore we kind of uh evaluate the request um uh based on the consistency with the comprehensive plan and public benefit. So the goals and strategies in the 2040 comp plan include providing a range of housing options and identify new areas for uh housing. Recently adopted missing middle um housing ordinance was uh recently adopted earlier this year. And so this provides a missing middle uh housing type. So getting into site photos that were taken um earlier a couple weeks ago, the property at 9025 James Avenue, the home was demolished I think about 3 years ago. Um but the property at 9033 James Avenue um is still standing. So getting into the site plan, there'd be one curb cut off of James Avenue. uh nine total detached town homes. Uh five would be on the north side, four on the south side with a private driveway and the end of the private driveway would end in a culde-sac with two guest p guest spaces located just south of the culde-sac and plans identify uh two stall garages with a double wide driveway. Um the applicant is also proposing above and below ground infiltration systems. Getting into a little bit of the traffic. Uh the project is anticipated to generate 85 trips a day, which is a net increase of uh 66 trips when you take away the trips from the single family dwellings. James Avenue um has a standard width of 32 feet with this with uh excuse me with sufficient capacity to handle the increase and has uh James Avenue has no parking restrictions. So the um applicant is not pursuing any vertical um construction at this time and is developing the lots for sale. Um but building plans are required to be submitted for final same building plan applications. So the plans that are provided um with the application are conceptual um but the plans do show that the structures would be 20 ft tall. Floor plans show onebedroom 750 ft. uh building materials would be made out of stone veneer and lap siding. Um so the design will likely change but the plans must be um code complying. Getting into parking and sidewalks um two stalls a unit um are required and they're showing a uh excuse me two stalls a unit um are being proposed and then two guest uh parking spaces are provided on the southeast corner. And then as far as public sidewalks, a six- foot wide public sidewalk is required along James Avenue. And then getting into the landscape plan, uh 18 trees and 54 shrubs are required and that's uh what's being shown on the plans uh kind of scattered all throughout the site. And then uh this uh project is not uh does not require tree preservation. So, just a note about um about the tree removal. And then lastly, getting into the plat um which just shows the individual lots um and the outlot for the private driveway, just to note that the storm water sidewalks and other site improvements must be completed with the plat approval. Um and lastly, just getting uh before the recommendation, just to note that um planning commission reviewed the application at the August 20th meeting and ultimately recommended approval with the addition of a construction management plan condition uh which followed concerns raised by the planning commission and the public. Uh so the uh management plan would specifically address items like project phasing, contractor parking, hours of construction, dust control, signage, equipment deliveries, and storm water and erosion control. Uh so with that, planning commission and staff are recommending approval. And I know the applicant is here for any questions. >> Very good. First, uh council, any questions for Miss OD? No questions. Uh I know that the applicant is here. I'd ask if there anything you'd like to add, Mr. Furlong. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Uh Council Member Carter is question of Miss OD on this one. >> Um you know what? I accidentally uh raised my hand. I do have a question, but I will wait until after the >> inadvertent hand. Very good. >> Yeah. >> Mr. Furlong, anything to add? >> Yes. Good evening, council members, Mayor Busy. Thank you for hearing this application. So, our intent here obviously is to create places for new homeowners to build a house. It's kind of new, kind of a new thing for Bloomington. Uh brief history of the site here. So, we acquired the um single family home at 9025 James about four years ago. It was uninhabitable and so we raised that structure and since then we're looking for plans to redevelop the site. And uh I had a neighborhood meeting about three years ago to talk about ways we could use that one single parcel, maybe build a twin home or a duplex, something like that. And then the opportunity for us to acquire 9033, James came along making the site uh the full acre that we're uh discussing this evening. So uh the financial feasibilities of developing this site were not great. We looked at twin home plans. We looked different ways to uh create different layouts and and nothing really seemed to pencil out very well on a proforma until the missing middle housing ordinance was enacted. And that allows us now to present this plan if the site is to be uh reszoned to R3 where we can make this financially feasible. And doing it as lots reduces our uh capital burdens. It reduces our risk and it offers the purchasers of these an opportunity to create a home for themselves that is more attainable. And so I I think for those reasons a great plan. Um a few notes from planning commission that I picked up. A question was raised about these becoming rentals. We're not going to prohibit that. The intent here is an opportunity for someone to buy the lot and build a house for themselves. So, we're we're not looking to build this out as a a rent a rental uh buildout. So, uh that's not the intent. Another question was if uh what if one house gets built, what happens? Well, the developer is going to maintain control of the site until all nine lots are sold. So, we be responsible for maintaining the site until it's uh completely developed. Um the construction management plan. So, I learned something new every time I come up with one of these. and this time was in this site due to the size and the number of units. I can't imagine having nine homes under construction here at the same time. And I I told the commissioners, the planning commission, we'll let the builders figure that out, but I don't I don't think we want to do that. So, I think the construction management plan's a really good idea. and maybe uh something along the lines of after discussing with staff here and thinking about this and I think about this house down the street from me that had a new roof put on last this summer and just how that was a a disruption in my day. Um, I think it makes sense to probably limit us to maybe three shells under construction at one time is probably feasible to minimize the impact in the neighborhood and then um have that be a a first come first serve on the on the permit process. So, uh, I'll I'll create some construct around that so that we don't have nine different framing crews in here all at the same time trying to build nine houses all at once in this space. I don't think it would work. Um, there were some other questions too about group homes in the neighborhood. We're not talking about group homes to be constructed here. I don't I don't know what that is, but um and then uh traffic and it sound more like there was uh a routing of traffic through this neighborhood is more of an issue than than what this development will create. As you heard from Miss Oday, the uh new trip generation is only 66. So um minor uh I do have something additional to add. We're talking about money earlier this evening and there's this new federal innovation fund and I've spoken with staff about this and the the basics of this are um there the federal uh allocation is an annual $200 million to municipalities that adopt forwardinking housing policies that yield creation of additional housing units and Bloomington's already well underway on this on this and so I think a project like this, what the HR is doing, the town homes on 86th Street, all those things, I think that lines up Bloomington very well for some additional CBD uh CBDG funds, and I know that we could use some of those dollars for sewer infrastructure. So, um so that's that's something else I'm thinking about. The last thing I have, unless you have questions for me, is I'm I'm not a a faroff corporate capitalist. I've been a resident of Bloomington for 23 years. I do this for fun largely, which I usually get laughed at, like why would you do this for fun? I thought about this as if I'm a neighbor and I want the neighborhood to know that I'm available through this process. I recently mailed out my contact information to everyone in the neighborhood. Again, please call me with questions. If we gain approval and we're underway, the neighborhood's always welcome to reach out to me. I'm uh happy to be available. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Mr. Furlong. Council, any questions? Mr. Furlong, Council Member Lman, >> just a real quick one. You had uh mentioned uh with regards to uh your financing and how many you placed on that particular uh couple of parcels there. Could you talk a little bit more about that in terms of, you know, why nine is is the number and you can't do eight or four? I know that's a question that has typically been raised. uh what it would take to kind of and again I don't I'm not trying to [laughter] you know be a developer up here but just want to ask that question so that I understand that and so that the public has a better understanding of what that means. >> Council member Lman, council members, Mr. Mayor, uh excellent question. Be happy to take anyone who would like to through a proforma and show you what it costs. This site seems relatively simple. You look at the site plans, it's a single drive. It's nine lots. There's a culde-sac at the end. What should it take? Maybe a bulldozer, a few hours to carve this thing out. No, it's $400,000 just to put the street curb, gutter, and pipes in. And that's before a single house gets built. So that in itself is almost $50,000 a lot. And then to acquire 9033, I'm not buying that property at a discount. I'm buying it at market value. and the costs that we already have into the civil engineering, the planning, the surveying, the platting, uh draw document creation, all those things. Um, our costs are are likely to be about a h 100,000 a lot or more. And so if you take a lot away, now you have to increase the price of each one of those additional lots to make up for that. And so it's this is a risky business. And one of the first things one of the uh planners told me when I came into this building 15 years ago is I've seen many a very good developer go bankrupt in this business. So be careful what you're doing. But I think the worst the the risk is is worth taking because it's our community. We desperately need more housing. We need opportunities for people to build a house in our city. And right now there are about one I think I think there's about one opportunity for someone to buy a lot and build a house themselves. So, um, I'd be happy to run through a portfolio, though. It's it's, uh, nine is a necessary number in order to spread the horizontal costs out so we can keep our lot price as attainable as we possibly can. >> Thank you for clarifying that in terms of the attainability and the affordability. I think I heard you say, thank you. >> And and I might have missed it in your statements. Uh, what what is the expected list price for these homes? >> Mr. Mayor, council members, that's an excellent question to one I do not have an exact precise answer for at this point. I will say that there have been single family lots in Bloomington that I have been able to sell for under 120,000. And so just uh simple ratios, if the cost of a lot is 20% of the overall build price, the expectation is that you should you should be able to create a housing unit for uh if if the if the lot is 120,000, a housing unit for under 600,000, which sounds expensive, but when you look at the the broader south metro, there isn't a new construction single family detached home for less than a million until you get down to like New market. So, um, for someone acquiring one of these lots to build a house for themselves, they eliminate the the builder's risk, the builder's profit margin, the builder's carrying costs, and you you might be able to create a new housing unit here for 400,000 if you did it right potentially. >> So, just to be clear here, so you won't be building and developing the homes. You'll be selling the lots. Is that correct, >> Mr. Mayor? Council members, that is correct. >> Very good. And when I when I heard development, town home development, I thought perhaps you would be constructing and then selling. But uh even though it's you're not building the the style of home, the look of the home, it it has to meet the standards of what you prescribe. Is that correct, >> Mr. Mayor? Council members, that is correct. It would have to meet uh anything that's within the association bylaws for requirements, which our intent is to keep minimal. And secondarily, it has to meet all city code and all state building code requirements. >> Okay. Thank you. Other questions, council? Why don't we uh we we'll save the comments. We'll get to that eventually. Let's get through the questions and the public hearing and then we'll make some comments. How about that? Any additional questions or questions of Miss OD on this one? >> I have a quick question. >> Uh Council Member Carter. >> Yeah. So, um I guess at least in my time on council, I don't think we've had a proposal like this brought forward. And how common is it to um you know, just like have lots people buy and then they kind of build their own town homes within kind of the constraints of the HOA and obviously city regulations and state regulations. Um and then have an HOA. Like I guess I'm just kind of I'm wondering how how typical this model is and not saying I'm not supportive of it if we move it forward, but I just am curious. >> Mr. Furlot, Council Member Carter, council members, Mr. Mayor, it's not that common typically in cities where we have a lot of single family development like uh what we had in Lakeville um and and other South Metro communities. a developer would create a subdivision and then sell a block of those lots to builders. And that could be the case here. I I would certainly entertain builders wanting to acquire two, three, four of these lots and maybe build a speck home and then offer the others. That's common. So, uh, a builder might own four lots, build one speck home, model home, and then allow the home owners to come in and acquire the other three lots and have that builder build a house for them. So, this isn't that far removed from that type of process where a homeowner to be would purchase a lot from us, contract with a builder of their choice, and have the home built. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, I have one other question and this might be for Miss Oday, but um, if we were to make this zoning change and let's just say worst case scenario, um, there's not a lot of interest in building on the different lots and like maybe Steve decides, you know what, I want to put up a just like a one big house or a couple like DUP or whatever. But would that be allowed? Do we have a minimum amount of units that have to be created once we make the change or is it just a maximum? I can't remember. >> Thank you, mayor. Uh, the minimum amount of units is zero. Um, but the maximum uh would you say is five? Sorry. [laughter] Defer. >> I think it was. Yeah. And I was more curious about the minimum. I didn't I didn't think we had a minimum. So, if it sat empty, if the lot just sat empty for a while, that's it is what it is, right? Yeah, mayor, council members. So, uh, R3 doesn't have a minimum. Uh, the the comprehensive plan has a minimum of five units to the acre, and that's the guidance today. So, any subsequent entitlements or zoning actions, we would be evaluating it, uh, in terms of its consistency with the comp plan. So, that could present a wrinkle in terms of, you know, what our minimum expectations are for unit creation in that. They'd have to go through back through an entitlement uh, process with the preliminary and final plat. Uh, you'd certainly have to move those lot boundaries if the plat was recorded. Um, so we we'd basically be going back to the drawing board, I would say. >> Okay. Okay. Y >> All right. Thank you. I don't have any more questions. Thank you. >> Thank you, Council Member. Council member Lman. >> Um, and I know this will uh probably have other parts on here, but I just had a question in terms of the discretion that we have with regards to these uh four motions that are here. I just wanted to be sure that as we're kind of working our way down this I see a I see a platting on here and I'm just a little bit nervous about quasi judicial and what which one fits with that. I just want to make sure I'm clear in terms of what we need to be concerned about as we work our way down through this. We are staff is checking on that one. Why don't we uh why don't we uh keep this moving along and we can double back to it if we could. How about that? I can take a crack at it if the city attorney wants to kind of affirm what I'll share with you. But the um [laughter] I didn't mean I didn't mean that in like a a bad way. Sorry. Oops. Um the reasonzoning is a more discretionary action. You're looking to the guidance of the comprehensive plan and those things. The plat and the final site and building plans as quasi judicial. That's where you're subject to findings of fact in the city code. >> Yep. >> Agree. >> Thank you. And the the fourth motion is just a resolution of summary publication which is at your discretion um related to the resoning action. >> Thank you. Thank you. All right, council. We ready to get into the public hearing here? Let's do that. We're going to open the public hearing on item 4.8 this evening. Uh the just as a reminder that what I mentioned earlier stands here as well. You'll have an actually an extra minute. So, you're up to three minutes for your comments. But I will cut you off at three minutes. As you come up, please do state your name and then be sure as you finish up if you could sign in and I think our clipboard is up here somewhere. So, you can find the clipboard and sign in. Uh we will hold all questions until we get to the end of the public hearing and then we'll try to answer the questions best we can and everybody gets one bite of an apple. So, that's what we do. So, I will open the public hearing on item 4.8 this evening. This is a public hearing regarding the James Avenue city homes resoning the final site and building plans platting and this these addresses are 9025 and 9033 James Avenue. Who in the council chambers would like to speak tonight's >> we are we are plenty patient. That's good because I've been sitting plenty long to work after you sit too long. >> Well, good evening. It's my bedtime. I am Kathy Jones >> and I have the pleasure of living next door to where Mr. Furlong wants to do this project. So, I would like to start with, do we have to change it to R3? Is there a reason it can't stay R1 and still meet some of the middle housing hole that Bloomington has in its system? Um because I my understanding is R1 keeps us to a little smaller profile home which is the conceptual design that he's proposing. Excuse me. And would maybe let grass grow in my backyard instead of having mini mansions over towering my yard. Uh, my other concern that I have, Steve, if it's too expensive, don't buy 9033. Just build the half that you already own and keep that cost off your books for having to come up with more money. I believe their their uh little map that they have for 85 cars or 66 additional cars coming in and out of James Avenue. That's all great if they think they're just going to go 300 ft to 90th, but you'd be surprised how many people cut through our little 12b block neighborhood and go out on 91 and a half street because you can't get out on 90th. So, it makes a huge difference not being able to just shoot down the street and turn. have to go through the neighborhood and it's very very annoying for the other people who live there. Uh the other thing that I'd like to add um are are we going to end up with an empty lot? It sounds like there's a chance we might if the lots don't sell. It'll sit like 86th and Penn, which has been in limbo since 2019. And and I guess I'd be okay with that because then I don't have to worry about having many mansions next door to me. Right now I've got an empty lot that's been next to me for four years and I've learned to adjust to that being empty. So I think that's a a big avenue. And of course you know you sit and you write down all this stuff and you think you got a good notes and then it's like ah um but you know it's it's just really challenging because it's going to take the population on my half of the block. It's going to increase it by 140%. By putting in nine homes on that one acre. There's only going to be five homes on one side and we're going to take it up by 140% and I don't think it's only going to be 66 trips up and down James per home. I think it's going to be a lot more than that. So only get one bite of an apple and I got 30 seconds to go. What else do I want to say? [laughter] I'm just very concerned. I I want to make sure that Steve gets to celebrate being a Bloomington resident and do what he can for the city of Bloomington, but I also don't think he needs to do it next door to me. So, I would love to see him develop 9025, put a couple of homes on 9025, leave 9033 alone, keeps his cost low, lets everyone still get a little bit of something. And I also want to take a few seconds and say thank you, Lona. She um I sent her an email. We asked her to come and she worked on Habitat for Humanity one day, came over to my home and met with a handful of neighbors and answered a few questions and then she even responded back to an email. So, she's been very supportive and I appreciate all that. Now, if we can just tell me why we can't just stay R1. >> Our our time is up, but thank you very much. >> So, that's my question for you before I go home. >> We got that. >> All right. Thank you. >> And I'll sign in, >> please. >> Yeah, I'm slow. Don't tell me I'm up here alone. [laughter] >> Hi, my name is Lannne and um >> Lan, can we get your last name, too? >> Male. >> Male. Thank you. And could you pull the microphone down just a touch? Sure. Thank you. >> You're not quite as tall as me. I would like to address the traffic analysis that um and that James Avenue has sufficient capacity to accommodate the additional trips and no significant impacts to the adjacent traffic patterns. I feel that we've addressed the concerns on the August 20th meeting and the amount of current traffic flow in 90th Street James and 92nd have additional approximately 85 more trips. So in the meeting, Julie had said that they use the generation manual calculator which averages 90 average trips a day. I used the calculator for James total traffic with proposed town homes. There's 17 homes. 179 is 153 trips. 85 daily trips for proposed development making it 238 daily trips. This is just the people that live on James. That does not include Amazon, FedEx, food delivery, sewer buses, garbage, recycling, yard waste, trucks, mail delivery, daycarees, group homes. James is a twob block street starts at 90th Street, which is the entrance and exit for n um James because James ends at 92nd. How can a twob block street have sufficient cap capacity to handle approximately 238 daily trips just the people that live on it plus the added other traffic that I just mentioned and have no significant impacts to the adjacent traffic on 90th Street is entrance 90th is a feeder to the 35W during different times it backs up and blocks off James because it's close to the freeway way. Getting across all four lanes can be a real challenge. The stop lights at 35W backs up in front of James and light goes, you get go forward. Um on West 90th and east of Penn Avenue, very close to our neighborhood, there is 30 um Penn Village town homes and one apartment building and the only entrance is out onto 90th Street. All that traffic goes up and down 90th Street past James and past our area. So a little boundaries of our neighborhood east to west it's one 91st and a half street to James and 90th street to 92nd Street is two blocks. 92nd is a TA street that runs around along Oliver, Newton, Morgan, Logan, Knox, and James. And it feeds out to 91st and a half street, which goes out to Penn. There's four entrances into our little neighborhood. East side, no entrance. Southside, no entrance. West side, 91st and a half street. Only one entrance onto Penn. >> Miss Miguel, your time is up. I'm sorry that goes fast, doesn't it? I know. I'm sorry. others. >> Don't forget to sign in, please. >> Hi, my name is Jan Miller. I live across the street from the possible development and I [clears throat] agree with the two previous people about the traffic especially and also the need for reszoning. I don't see the need to change it from the R1 where he can develop that vacant lot. I would also like to keep the home that is there at 9033. It's always wellmaintained. the people have lived there for um a number of years and have fit well into the neighborhood. The R1 with my understanding the difference is um like the setbacks and I think R1 is more compatible to the current neighborhood. We're not our homes are not right on the street. We all have pretty decent front yards. If you have an R3 and you're you're able to build closer to the street, it it just is not compatible with the neighborhood. And I think that many homes um that number is far too many for our small neighborhood. So, I do not see a need to reszone. Let him build on what he can and wants on the vacant lot. I would prefer that he keeps the other home there. And I guess that's it. Thanks. >> Thank you, Miss Miller. >> Others. Hi, Dan Bell again. Good to be talking to you. This is the issue that that concerns me the most. Uh we have a property on 9109 Knox and when people talk about traffic and winding through and you can't get out on 90th during rush hour so you can just see the people that will be coming up and down the street and uh again it's unnatural. I mean most of our lots the way neighborhoods are currently constructed are a quarter of an acre. So even if you said, you know, four, you know, you the offsets to the street, it it wouldn't fit in. I I I wasn't quite sure on some of the the numbers that were were given to us. The the low number was 400,000 per year. >> Mr. Bill, Mr. Bill, >> if you could address >> low lower cost was 400,000 up to 500,000 and we're calling it affordable housing. Um, I'm telling you, if you you do the mortgage payment on something like that, you're not going to be living in a $400,000 house. You're going to be able barely be able to afford uh rent, you know? I mean, a payment when you figure the assessed tax value and all the other costs, I I don't see how that's that's solving much of a problem anyways. and to change the whole makeup of the neighborhood, change the traffic pattern. I sure wouldn't want that next next door to me like this poor woman's having, >> you know. And and there's this new there's this twin home that was built on 90th. And I know there's uh rules and regulations about how many cars you can have in the driveway, but I swear I don't there's at least five or six. It's right across from the new bike park. There's five cars in that driveway or more on a pretty regular basis plus two in the garage and the next one. And I can just imagine that I did hear they were single family. I mean single single family, but I don't know if they're single room, multiple room. I don't know how big these houses are are planning to to to be, what square footage, you know, they are. And the design is a little bit uncertain. So I to me the only way you could could do is go up and you have to bait for the storm and all that other stuff that adds a tremendous amount of cost. It's just unnatural to the whole neighborhood. And I would just like to echo the fact that switching it from R1 to R3 just seems over the top. and in I I understand the goal of trying to provide affordable livable housing for the the middle class. Um but but I don't see this providing that solution either. When you do the numbers on a on a mortgage on a $400,000 house with taxes, insurance, and everything that goes along with it, that's that's >> Thank you much. >> All right, I'll sign it again. Others wishing to speak tonight. >> Good evening. Good evening. My name is Scott Theers. I live um on 90th Street. My my backyard bumps up to the adjoining property. Uh, I've been a resident for um I've lived in that home for 47 years. Um, I'm not sure if you people understand, but uh what the plan shows is that the house, the first house on the property will be 40 ft in front of Kathy's house and it will be built 10 feet away from Kathy's property line and vice versa on the other side. Um, I can't believe anyone would ever want someone to have a house that close to you. Um, we're we're not in Minneapolis where people are squeezed in. We're That's why we bought in the suburbs. [clears throat] Um, um, I also did watch all the development on um 86th Street or whatever it was and that you all voted for it. So, I'm very concerned that this is going to happen. Um, I do want to know um if the is there a privacy um fencing needed to be put if this happens between R1 and R3 development? Um, and if so, uh, why not? I mean, if you don't have it, why not? And if so, I would think the developer would be in charge of putting up the fence because he's asking for the reasonzoning. And then um I guess we found out about the the possible management plan and um so so and then um according to some of the literature that was sent out in the packet. U so Um I'm sorry. Um we need to be sure that uh the deliveries and stuff are done between the hours of 7 and 10 and no construction parking on the street is part of the what it said on the stipulations. So I don't know how it's it some of it said in that packet said all construction and post construction parking and storage of equipment and materials must be on site. Use of public streets and private construction parking storage. >> Your time is up. I'm sorry. Thank you. My name is Sue Winchester going up what he said. They're they're saying anyone who buys a lot can build take their own builder. That could be nine different builders. We don't know how many are going to be built, how many lots are going to be. Construction could be going on for years and there's going to be no room to move in there. Let's say there's four houses built. Where are these construction vehicles going to park? But on the street and all the people that have to come there to work, they're going to be parking on the street. When people move in, they're going to have company. They're going to have parties. Somebody might be running a daycare. That's all extra traffic. All extra people coming into our neighborhood. Right now, we have 128 homes in our neighborhood, not counting the nine times nine trips. That was 1,152 trips a day just in our neighborhood. They're talking also about one-bedroom house. Nobody's going to buy a one-bedroom 750 ft house for $400,000 with no yard. Um it's going to be twotory houses. They can build up to 50 feet they said last time, which is uh more people are going to be there, more cars, people visiting. It's it's going it's just going to be a mess for the whole neighborhood. Would you want this in your neighborhood? Would you want this across the street or next door to you? No. Why build it right in someone's neighborhood? In the middle of a neighborhood? Most of us have have been there for 40, 50, 60 years. and you're driving people out of Bloomington. People are talking about selling their homes because of what's going on. And I it's I think it's totally ridiculous. >> Thank you. Miss Winchester, >> can I come finish eating her apple? >> Nope, you cannot. >> Doesn't work that way. Sorry. >> I thought of one more thing. >> Anyone else? Mr. Hallet's going for a new indoor record, I think, tonight. >> So, I heard a lot of good points and I don't want to invalidate any anyone's point. I just want to offer a couple suggestions. So, um I don't know a ton about the, you know, the major structural differences between the different types of zoning, but what I do remember asking um the planning division about uh how this could potentially work as a general concept. My ideas were stemming from eco villages such as Kash in Portland and there's another I I can't remember the one in Arizona, but the one in Arizona is actually really important because I took a like while everyone was speaking I took a really quick look at Google Maps and there is a seek center literally right behind the lot and uh we keep running into time and again whether it's community center or any other structure that we're building we keep running into the problem of uh parking momes and I know the sustainability commission is currently working on that in fact there's a whole bunch of stuff that I would love after this meeting I'd love to talk to you about the sustainability commission because there's a ton of people of a wealth of knowledge to help make the buildings more sustainable and more affordable uh affordable um there's a concept called the street car suburb uh I believe I heard in when the presentation was going on that there's a sidewalk being built uh because I looked at the map uh James a or I think it's sorry James Road James Avenue um goes directly to city hall right here. And uh from here there's buses. So that means that there is access via um again another protected bike lane uh going down James uh road uh sorry Avenue. I can't believe I'm messing up the all these street names. Um another protected bike lane. Uh get ourselves off of this continuous cycle of continuously forcing more cars into and becoming more and more problematic. uh while solving all these other issues of of the middle housing and respecting um people who already live here. I'm from Richfield. I've already gone through all this. I can tell you that there's definitely a wrong way of doing it and a right way of doing it. I've seen both happen um repeatedly and middle housing in general is not the enemy. Um it's just how how it's done. Uh Washington DC also has the most green roof space adoption in the uh country because of the storm water policies. Um, and this also this whole thing of ripping up the curb and all this other stuff that was talking about the storm water, uh, goes right back into the ordinance that I was talking about essentially of the question of what does restoration mean. And if we build an eco village, um, uh, use better materials. Uh, I I personally didn't like the architecture. Um, I believe it's probably something kind of like it kind of stems from the suburbs of Lakeville rather than the street car suburb, which I find much more appealing. Um, and easier to do uh, eco village style stuff where you end up with more food. Oh, um, well, dang it, I'm running out of time. Anyway, that's it. >> Thank you, Mr. Howlet. Anyone else? Miss Ry, do we have anyone on the phone wishing to speak to this topic >> where we do not have anyone online? >> Last call for anybody in the chambers. Council, no one coming forward, no one on the phone. I'd look for a motion to close the public hearing on item 4.8 this evening. >> So moved. >> Motion by council member Lman, second by council member Robertson to close the public hearing on item 4.8. No further council discussion on this. Miss Wright >> Carter. >> Hi. >> Dlesandro. >> Hi. >> Rias. >> Hi. >> Nelson. >> Hi. >> Lman. >> Hi. >> Robertson. >> Hi. >> Mayor Busy. >> I. Motion carries 70. Closing the public hearing. Uh, if we could answer a couple of questions I think about that that were brought up. Um, and I'll just kick them off here. Uh, the Miss Jones asked, "Is there a need to reszone to R3 or is it somehow doable in R1?" Um, Miss McCale talked about a traffic analysis and a calculator. Is there actually a calculator out there somewhere that uh you can you can access? Really? I didn't know that. That would be interesting. Uh, and the the trip numbers differed from the trip numbers that uh we had been talking about. Um, privacy fences between R1 and R3. I think there were questions about construction management plan. Um, other questions that we had heard. Who wants to tackle some of these? I know you were writing them down as well. I will start uh mayor and council. So the main difference between R1 and R3 um are the setbacks. So the minimum setback in R1 is 30 ft for a dwelling. Um R3 is 20. So um if this were to be kept as R1, I imagine one or two lots would be eliminated due to that increased setback um in R1. Um as far as fencing goes, uh it's not identified on the plans. Um, I know that Steve maybe addressed it at planning commission that it's potentially an option. I'd defer to him to speak to the um fencing. Um, I heard traffic. I'd defer to Kirk Roberts. Roberts, do you want me to pull up the slide? Kirk? >> Yeah. Okay. >> Mr. Roberts, there's a lot of questions about uh uh traffic, the the actual number of cars there, uh what the what the capacity might be. um backups on 90th and and diverting traffic through. >> Mr. Mayor, council members, yeah, there were and so let me run through these with you. Um and I'll be brief about it. Um in terms of the traffic calculator, that is me. I am the traffic calculator, although I will say Mrs. Mc [clears throat] Hail's traffic calculations were pretty good. Um and I really appreciate that. Anyone that's willing to uh calculate traffic and is I have a connection with. Um, one of the first things I want to touch on is the residents didn't see road tubes out here. Uh, we rely less and less on road tubes. We actually have data providers that we can get this data from, uh, using like GPS devices and things like that. So, we do have traffic volumes for the local roadways here. Uh, James Avenue, uh, which is the hot topic tonight, has about 200 cars a day. All of the roads in this area are about 300 cars per day or less. And in terms of context, that's a pretty quiet local street. U we don't even start thinking hard about streets until they're over 500 cars a day for a local street. Um and those the volumes can range 800 or more. Um and in in how that affects residents um people's um sensitivity to traffic varies, but generally at these low volumes, we don't hear a lot of complaints. We don't get a lot of requests for traffic calming. It's not to say that there isn't somebody that makes everybody in the neighborhood really angry because they drive fast or that every neighborhood has somebody like that, but in general the in these neighborhoods the traffic is fairly quiet. And so um moving up in the the volume numbers here, 90th Street, 12,400 cars a day there. As you approach 35W, Penn Avenue is a little lower volume, 800 vehicles per or 8,000 vehicles per day on Penn Avenue. You'll remember the 86th Street town homes when we were looking at that. That was about 5,000 cars a day. So, this is a much higher volume situation. That's a three-lane collector and this is four lanes to handle that volume as you approach the freeway. Now, the question and the one of the points we heard a lot is James Avenue um is is difficult to use sometimes in that peak hour and I believe that the traffic uh approaching 35W now, you can get those cues that build up. It is probably some residents already likely divert to other roads just depending on where their destination is by the time of day in those morning and evening peak hours. That happens pretty much in every neighborhood. Um as people sort of select based on their trip and and where they feel comfortable going to. And so this new development is going to generate about 66 new trips. And what does that do? How does that affect neighborhood traffic? Well, it's going on to James Avenue. Most traffic in Bloomington wants to take the shortest route to the highest the higher status road. So, in this case, that's going to be most traffic is going to want to get up to 90th Street. If I were uh real serious about these uh numbers here, I would probably put twothirds of the traffic wants to go out to 90th and then another third is going to want to cut or move through the sort of weave through the neighborhood over to Penn Avenue, use 91st and a half street. And what happens to traffic when they do that? So worst case, you add about 50 trips on James Avenue and you add another um some number of trips to 92nd Street, you are still looking at very low volume local streets that look like the majority of streets in this city. So in other words, they're 300 cars a day or less. They're well under that 500 car a day threshold. So, we're not real um concerned about the need to do traffic calming, traffic mitigation, traffic management. Um going through my comments. Yeah, I think I covered most of the comments. Council, if there's others that you want me to touch on, please let me know. But in general, um the uh the trips generated by this sub by this development, the proposed development. Um the one other thing that's worth touching on is the context. That's the other thing that if you have um like a business inside of a residential neighborhood or you just have straight up cut through traffic where it's coming from outside the neighborhood through the neighborhood and and back out. That's the kind of thing that really drives people crazy. This isn't that. It's residential traffic. This is your neighbors. That doesn't tend to generate the kind of complaints that we hear about when we have straight up cut through traffic. Um, and that's why I think probably James Avenue has those nice uh the curves there, the diverters, is because everything to the east is industrial uh associated traffic and then everything obviously up James Avenue to the north is all residential. And so they just divided those up to eliminate the issues that you sometimes hear about. So that's what I have for traffic and transportation. If there's other questions, I'm happy to answer them. Council member Rivas, >> quick question. >> I I'm just curious. Um I have never heard you or anybody from the city actually have had a an actual traffic study like you would see on a highway when you drive you have this the cable sensors across the the road and then when cars actually drive over those they're counting cars and also they're using u GPS uh sensors above that. So have we ever had an actual study like that in the city that you can bring to us? I I've always been curious about that. I mean, because I had never seen the cables outside. I had never seen the the GPS sensors out there either. So, can you kind of enlighten me on that if you may, please? >> Yeah, Mr. Mayor, Council Member Rias, we do uh the tube counts all the time. We have an entire program um throughout the summer to do those tube counts. A lot of that is to report back to our state aid. That's um for our allocation of the federal gas tax. We have to report back on the volume on most of our uh local and arterial roadways. You don't see the tube counts done uh as frequently inside neighborhoods just because we have fewer questions about those and those don't um have to be reported the same way. But we do indeed do studies uh using tube data and we collect tube data pretty much continuously throughout the summer months. Um often the studies that we do now uh if it's a very specialized thing like this will engage the services of a consultant just for workload especially with the larger studies that we do like the corridor studies and they do that more and more the tubes are being also replaced by video um and so when we want that accuracy will they'll put video cameras up and that's an automated system that just counts the traffic using that. Thank you, >> council. Despite our best intentions, I'm going to uh make a motion that we uh adjourn no later than 10 o'clock and see if we can get our work done. >> Second. >> Motion to extend until no later than 10 o'clock. Second by Dallasro. No further council discussion. Miss Ry >> Carter. >> Ilesandro. >> I reass. >> Nelson. >> Hi. >> Lman. >> Hi. >> Robertson. >> Hi. >> Mayor Bassy. >> Hi. Motion carries 70. >> Council. Uh any additional questions that you we need answered based on uh the questions that you heard from residents or questions that you had? >> Um >> council member Dallas. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. Um I I would uh like I don't know if um Miss OD or Mr. Johnson can answer this question but um one of the conditions of uh that we put in here is the construction management plan and the the the it came out of planning commission uh you know trying to provide a mitigation for some of the resident concerns around um what does it mean to build in the neighborhood during a period of time etc. But what we're looking at right now doesn't tell us anything about what's in that construction management plan. And and and so my question would be like what can we expect from a construction management plan? Has this ever been done before? Number one, have putting a condition of of approval on this um like this and then what is it going to look like so that we can have some understanding of what it is we're expecting to be um supporting if we choose to support it. >> Mr. Johnson, tell us about a >> Yeah, Mayor, Council Member Delandro, thank you for the question and actually it's really helpful if the council kind of uh voices or shares uh their ideas about what they would like to see in that document because u we have done it for other larger scale projects. We haven't done it as frequently for uh smaller or middle scale uh projects. Um but the things that are typically in it have to do with kind of the comingings and goings of all of the contractors and staff who are constructing the project. Um on the front end of things, that's the roadway, that's the utilities, those things. A lot of times they can create a construction parking area or a layown area for all their equipment and materials. Um, but then you'll have the vertical construction of the homes and the concern that was raised around having multiple crews going at one time. I I mean I heard the applicant tonight say that uh he would find it acceptable if there was limitations around the number of homes being construction under one time. So that's something that's certainly under con under consideration. On other construction management plans we've done uh I can think of uh Friendship Village, the large expansion that happened at Friendship Village. uh public works actually didn't allow uh parking on the public street on Highwood. So the number they had to either park within the campus itself during construction or they actually had to shuttle uh some staff in uh for the construction of those buildings. Now obviously that's a much larger project than what we're talking about here. But these are the kinds of things um that if there's some sensitivity or some uh impacts that could be visited upon adjacent property owners that we would take a closer look uh um to figure that out. And in terms of the staff teams that would be involved in informing the contents of that document, we're talking about public works, the building official, uh planning staff, in some cases environmental health because they're doing the enforcement on noise or other things. Um so we try and pull a team together and try and think through okay what are all the potential impacts that could uh cause harm to adjacent properties during the construction and we try and mitigate that through the um the contents of the management plan. But we actually invited planning commission to give us their thoughts when they added this condition. So the more things you can put on the record that gives us more than just our own expertise um it kind of helps and the applicant being in the room it helps set the expectation of what the city wants to see as far as uh being sensitive to the neighboring property owners. >> Okay. So thank you for that. So a follow-up question to that does the construct has the construction manager or can the construction management plan also include um you know um uh some of the limitations that uh bridge the gap between what is being proposed uh as concepts here and what actually is allowed by the ordinance. Most specifically, I'm thinking about the fact that what we are seeing in front of us here today is houses that are 20t tall. And yet in R3, should we pass the zoning changes, it could be up to 50. We don't want that. Like I I heard it very clearly, the residents don't want 50- foot tall buildings in these areas. It wouldn't be preventable, but if it was a condition in the construction management plan, we could add that. I just don't know if that's the kind of thing you can put in a construction management plan. That's why I'm asking the question because it will help me understand what the boundaries of that are. >> I appreciate that. So, mayor, councelor Dellesandre, I would say no. And the reason being is that the construction management plan is really focused on the actual the impacts of the physical construction, not the structures that will be there um for the long term following its construction. So, that's kind of the um boundaries of that document, if you will. Now certainly you have uh the the right or the question to impose other conditions of approval so long as it meets an essential nexus. The issue that we have sometimes is that if you're imposing conditions on a code complying application um uh with respect to a project that meets our code, uh that does take some back and forth or some collaboration with the applicant in terms of whether or not they're willing to entertain uh those types of conditions. So, I would certainly invite them um if you're thinking along those lines, I would invite them to at least to raise that with them to see if they're open to a uh a condition along those lines specifically to structure height. One thing I would say just to clarify that issue a little bit is it's true that the height map allows structures up to 50 ft. I mean, I invite the applicant to speak to this and I know we did have the town home project more recently, so I'm sure that's top of mind a little bit. Um, but in terms of what we see for new single family home or villa lot construction, we're the market typically does not build a three-story uh villa. Um, I I don't see that product um very often. Um, in addition to that, um, specifically for the lots that are closer to single family homes and to the south of them, that's when you have the greatest impact from a structure height standpoint because you're casting shadows. Our code does have provisions in it that does offer protections that if you're casting shadows at both in the morning and the afternoon and it's most impactful in the winter months of course when the sun is lowest. Um uh you're not allowed to do that. And so in those particular lots it would be staff's expectation that the architect is providing a shadow study uh for their specific home to ensure that those shadow components are being complied within our code. So that's a little bit for you to chew on. I don't know if it resolves the question. No, it it helps. And you know, Mr. Johnson, you're always super thorough and I I totally appreciate that and I want to thank you for for being willing to address my my concerns. Um, you know, I guess from from my perspective, the I guess the last question I would have is we are we are we are being provided with conceptual studies here of what houses might look like. And I could choose to say I like them or I don't like them, but they're based on they're based on we we've been we've been asked to look at a table that says here's the here's the requirement here's the proposed thing right over and over again except they're not the proposed thing because as soon as this is over that could be something else and that's the thing that I'm trying to I'm struggling with. So I guess the question I would I guess the third question I would ask is what is there what is there within our our framework can we do you know to say these are the these are the the the home plans that you can build in this area like you know it's almost like a plan development right where it has sets of conditions and it has pre-approved if you will you know construction concepts um you know it just so that we're not at a point where, you know, two years down the road, two of the homes have been built kind of sort of in alignment with what we've seen today and then somebody comes in and, you know, is a completely off completely outrageous I don't mean to be like I like lots of different kinds of architecture, so I'm not necessarily going to be the guy that goes, "What in the world? You built a castle." Um, but I mean, somebody might try to build a castle, like, you know, a really tall castle with turrets, and they can't we can't really say no at that point. And that's I'm trying to just understand what what we can be doing now to put bumpers around what looks reasonable for these property owners that are adjacent to this to this neighborhood. >> Yeah. First, mayor, first I'd say like all this discussion is really helpful for planning staff because we're taking notes. We're taking uh note of your conversations around what our standards should be in these particular instances and that's going to inform future policy work that we do. Right. So, I appreciated Council Member Nelson's comments. Uh, maybe at the end of the last meeting or if our standards are wrong, let's change our standards. So, um, that's just kind of my first more broad comment to that. Um, as far as the imposition of additional height, uh, conditions on it. No, I don't think that we can, uh, say that it has to be this style or this design of the home. Um, that's typically what HOAs do. And you know as as they were mentioning kind of mass builders yes they give you five options and you pick one and that's how they do their work is as scale um this is a different situation but I think we're finding that in the space of missing metal housing it's going to take different types of developers to deliver that product because there isn't the scale uh of uh that the national builders or that the big builders use. Um so to back to your question about what conditions you can add again I mean I invite the city attorney to speak to this to a little bit but every condition you impose on uh development should meet some essential nexus is the test that it's called. So what is the condition doing? Is it reasonable to solve the problem that uh you have identified in this particular case the the city code allows 50 ft if the site is reszoned to R3. And so that's where I mentioned that I think it does necessitate some discussion or some invitation to the applicant to see what they're willing uh to what their appetite is to allow for uh additional conditions around structure height. Um if that's of uh if they're amendable to that and the council wants to do that then I think you kind of kumbaya and you're in a good place and then maybe you add that condition. But if they're not amendable to that, that's kind of where you have a it's a trickier question to answer because it is code complying minus the shadow issue that I mentioned before. >> Thank you. Appreciate your help. >> So I I heard Mr. Furlong say something about an association and is that basically what we're talking about? Uh, I mean, an association determining heights and styles and um that kind of thing to to uh help limit or determine what a different house could look like. >> Mr. Premier, I I don't I thought I thought that the whole idea because these are nine individually developed places and yes, there would be a requirement for an an HOA, I guess, for common space and area, but it wouldn't necessarily have >> maybe >> legal standing on the building. >> Yeah, Mayor and Council Dan, just to clarify, state law doesn't allow us to require an HA anymore. Um, >> HOA, >> HOA, excuse me. But it's my understanding that is their plan to have an HOA. they can have private rules um but the city cannot enforce an HOA's private rule. So I think what you're what I'm talking about what I think you're talking about is um uh some type of condition of approval on the final site and building plan um approval. But again, when you're in a situation where the code says that you're allowed to do that, I think that takes some give and take or some discussion with the applicant on whether they're amendable to that. >> Council member Lman. >> Thank you, Mayor. I guess uh I'm a little confused. So, um, we're trying to go from R1 to R3, but it seems like the building that's going to be built is built in a style that's an R1. And that this is where I'm I'm having a difficult time trying to ascertain or just figure that out. That's that's where I'm really confused with that. And so, that's kind of my first question. I'm confused about that. If you could help me kind of understand that. And then the secondary thing that I'm trying to understand is you know we have a comprehensive plan and this space or this area is guided towards R3. Is that my understanding or guided towards a pardon me towards uh uh higher density? >> Yeah, mayor council member Lman. So the R3 zoning district was designed to be that gentle density district. It was designed to accommodate missing middle types of different forms. not kind of more uh higher density medium like a multiplex or a small apartment building uh but detached town homes, cottage courts, uh town homes, attached town homes. That's what R3 uh can accommodate. So, is it a medium density residential district? Planning staff would actually argue that it fits in both the high end of low density residential and the low the Did I just say that right? The high end of low density and the low end of medium density. Does that make sense? Um, so I think I just confused you more. Forgive me. [laughter] Uh, >> I get your your point. >> The point is is that you can build some of these missing middle types if you recall the missing middle policy, but they're subject to different standards. There's greater restrictions on height and there's bigger setbacks if it is R1. Um, I don't want to speak for the developer, but I think from following this process along, the reason they've decided to seek resoning to R3 is based on two things. is one the site is guided medium density residential and two it offers them uh reduced structure setbacks which allows them to gain more units back to the point he made about the proforma. So that's just my analysis of it. I'm not trying I'm trying to be objective or neutral in that regard. >> No, I appreciate that. And then am I understanding that correctly with the with the R the R1 to to R3? So that's that's what we're trying to do. So the first couple motions here try to get us into that thing. I guess the the the the dilemma I'm having is I don't know what [snorts] it is that's going to be there. And so that I just I I can't I'm having a hard time figuring out and I I get what what's you know the developer is trying to do I think is trying to make it so you can basically build your own home. But if you want to build your own home then what's the restriction from stopping you from going and building it all the way to the R3 standard? Right. So, Mayor, council member Lman, there are uh structure setback requirements in R3. You have to have a minimum five foot separate or 10 foot separation between each dwelling, which effectively is a 5ft sideyard setback on both sides. So there are standards within the code when every when the building >> I get that but there is a there's a level between >> you know what I'm hearing being proposed and what the the the final person that's going to since they're not controlling that can do with that. Uh, and and that's where I'm I'm I'm a little bit I'm a little bit hesitant to to to do that that R that R3 part because I just don't understand, you know, is it going to meet that middle the the the middle that we're trying to achieve. And that's the part that I'm confused with. Uh, is it, you know, and then they could do whatever they want. So there's no real restriction here. So I'm reluctant to want to make that move to the R3 until I have a much better understanding of that. And there's some other things that are are here that are going on here too. Sewer and some other things here that I have questions about. So, um I I'm just, you know, and we've never done this before, so I want to do this right. Uh and so I'm just at this point, mayor, when I look at this today, uh I'm not ready to make this decision tonight. You know, I I want to, you know, kind of have a little more understanding in terms of what this R3 thing looks like. And I think it's a great innovative idea, but uh this could be a lot of different things in that neighborhood. Uh and I don't really know what that is. And it's one thing if you're coming back and you're go here, this is exactly what it is. Uh and it's going to be two stories and but I just again I I asked the question again. A $600,000 house for a one-bedroom. That doesn't seem to quite fit what's going on here. So I something's not making sense to me here. So I'm just it just I'm trying to make this make make sense to me. So uh if if you know I I'm not ready for this right now tonight the way this is presented to me. >> Thank you. Council member >> Council Member Rebos. >> I had a comment to make. Um my my only comment is I I like the fact that that the builder or the developer stated the facts why nine and not 304. It all comes down to money and and uh you know uh and the reality is for an investor to uh put their capital into anything they had to look for profit. it's we you know we live in this world that is a capitalist world. So, um, you know, that said, I I did like your explanation. Uh, you know, it's that's reality and and and it's good for the public to hear that. Uh, this that was my comment and and I do understand what's going on with the the amount of land and how you can make it profitable and fit as many units as possible. Uh, because of the 30 to 20 uh is it yards or what is it? yards, right? Or feet feet actually from 30 ft to 20 feet, right? I understand all of that. My only question is uh it comes down to they're going to be whoever the builder is, even if they are all the council is there um they have guidelines already from what I understand that they will have to follow. Even if let's say I buy one of them and I built something, the interior could be very different than the others, but the outside would have to assimilate the other units, right? Oh, correct me if I'm wrong. From what I understand, >> go ahead, Mr. >> Forgive me, Council Member Rivas, can you describe that question one more time? What I'm trying to say is that the you know within the guidelines guidelines that the city has and everything that we have in the ordinances right >> even if there are nine different builders in there the outside of the buildings will be very similar. The only things that I can think the owners would do almost in any like in any other development >> you only design the inside of a home as a private owner. you go in and you ask your the architects or engineers to do whatever you want on the setup and and uh that you want in the interior of the house, but the outside has to follow standards, right? >> Yeah. Maybe um mayor, council member, maybe I can answer address council member Lman's question and your question uh together if I can is when we have a lot in Bloomington that's just a typical single family lot, right? We get a building permit, we review it to meet all of our zoning standards, height, setbacks. The building code has requirements around exterior materials. We do have zoning standards for exterior materials for our commercial, industrial, our highdensity buildings. We don't have exterior material requirements for uh single family homes or detached town homes or villas, whatever you want to call these. And so to the question of I, you know, to the question of we're not knowing kind of what's going to happen here, what what exactly is the application seeking, every single one of these lots, if a building permit comes in for a new dwelling, we will review it according to the standards of the zoning code, just like we would a typical single family home, setbacks, height, all of those things that we typically impervious surface, all of those things that we typically look at, making sure that it's meeting our parking requirement. So, I know it's a little bit different that this is conceptual in terms of the building plans that they've provided to you uh in the packet. Um, but it's very similar to actually if you were to just subdivide uh if you were to subdivide one lot into three single family lots. We would review the building permit of each individual three uh single family homes according to the requirements of our zoning code through the submission of a building permit. And that building permit would not get issued until we verified it that it complies with our zoning. So, it's very similar to that process. I don't know if that cleaned anything up or cleared anything up. Maybe not, but >> it does to me. Thank you. >> Uh, council, uh, based on our discussion, I can't tell which direction we're going to go here. I don't know that we've got an answer one way or another, but what I hear is all kinds of confusion and uh, misunderstanding or or not a lack of a lack of understanding of what we're voting on to be honest. Uh, I think it might be prudent for us to table this, ask staff to maybe regroup a little bit and come back to us and get a bit more information. You know, wherever we wherever we want to go, I you know, however we want to go with this, I don't it's it's up to this group, but I want to at least make sure that we understand what we're voting on, what we're talking about here. And so, and I don't hear that right now in the questions that are being asked in the discussion that we're having. So, um, I don't know. I would look to staff. Are we we're not any under any time constraints or maybe we are >> the 120 day is November 12th. >> Oh, so we do have time. Okay. Uh I I do think council that that makes the most sense right now because I'm not hearing uh understanding or comfort in this decision that we're making either way that we're making and I don't hear comfort in that. So, Council Member Nelson. >> Yeah. Thanks, Mayor. Can I just address a couple things? I don't disagree with your direction, but just quickly, um, construction management plan. Um, city of Minneapolis has one. St. Louis Park that could be templates. I happen to very for reasons help write the Minneapolis one. So, um, so it's probably not that good. Um, [laughter] uh, and, uh, in terms of an HOA that I mean, they're they're very flexible. It could be, I think Mr. Furlong indicated, be fairly limited. So they could put all sorts of requirements in terms of aesthetics and exterior stuff and you hear the horror stories of HOAs and you can't put pink flamingos out um or whatever. But you can make it much more limited and hey it's just a group that uh takes care of road maintenance, trash hauling, utilities, that sort of thing. So that can be very limited in terms of if this is reszoned to R3, anything that meets the standards of R3 could be built. I mean, it would probably have to be replatted because of the platting, but anything that that meets any of those standards could be built if it's reszoned. So, I mean, I understand that they have conceptual stuff, it it could go. Am I wrong? >> Can I address that? Just one second, >> Mr. Johnson. This is exactly what I'm talking about in terms gang. Um, maybe we should just uh maybe we should just put a pause on this. It's getting late. I think there are more questions than answers right now. There's more confusion than understanding. Uh, if we back this off until October 12th, perhaps or we could do it maybe the Monday that I'm in Kansas City, maybe we could do it that way. [laughter] >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I appreciate the willingness to send that to me for acting mayor duties. >> I'm going to move that we uh we uh table item uh 4.8 until uh October the October 12th meeting. direct staff to direct counsel to uh formulate questions and get to staff and get your get a better understanding and direct staff to see what we can do to try and make a better sense of this and so we can come to a decision based on uh an understanding of what we're making that decision on. >> Second >> motion in a second. Any additional questions or conversation on this? >> Mayor, just to note that the public hearing is closed, so there will not be a subsequent public hearing uh October 12th. And again, October 12th, unless we want to go to September 26, 28th. No, we're good. We have a motion in a second to table this until October 12th. No further discussion. Miss Riot. >> Carter. >> I >> Revas. >> Hi. >> Nelson. >> Hi. >> Lman. >> Hi. >> Robertson. >> Hi. >> Maybi. >> I. Motion carries 70. Thank you for your patience. Uh, both the developer neighbors. Uh, thanks for the patience. I want to make sure that we understand what we're talking about. we get this right. And so, um, appreciate your patience. Appreciate you sticking it out with us this late onto a Monday night, but, uh, you're seeing the sausage being made. I hope you enjoy it. It's, uh, it's how it works. So, thank you, council. Uh, that concludes our agenda this evening. We are up to, uh, council policy and issue update. Uh, we didn't have a listening session, so I have no listening session to report on. Mr. Walker, do you have anything tonight? >> Very quickly, mayor, some good events the community should be aware of. Uh this Saturday uh September 19th from noon to 400 pm there will be the 50th anniversary of the Normandell Japanese Garden at Normandell Community College. I believe the program itself starts at noon, but there are events uh throughout the day. Also Saturday, uh keep the fun going at the Bloomington Street Arts Festival and Nine Mile October Fest. uh that runs from 10:00 a.m. to 6:00 pm. And then uh no meeting next week, but there will be a boards and commission connect opportunity for council and our board and commission members to uh get together and update and dialogue. Uh that'll be from 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. here in council chambers. >> Very good. Council, anything to add hearing? None. I would entertain a motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> Motion by council member Dalisandro. Second by council member Robertson to adjurnn. No further discussion. Ms. Ry >> Carter. >> Hi >> Dallasandro. >> Hi >> Rivas. >> Hi >> Nelson. >> Hi >> Lman. >> Hi >> Robertson. >> Hi. >> Mayor Busy >> I. Motion carries 70. We are adjourned. Thanks much everybody. Thanks for the conversation tonight. Thanks to our neighbors who joined us. Thanks to staff. Well done. Have a good rest of your week. [music]