[1:50] . >> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO THE JUNE 12TH, 2025 MEETING OF THE BLOOMINGTON PLANNING COMMISSION. [1:57] THE PLANNING COMMISSION IS MADE UP OF SEVEN VOLUNTEERS. WE HAVE FOUR HERE THIS EVENING. WE'RE ALL APPOINTED BY THE [2:04] CITY COUNCIL FOR MOST ITEMS THE CITY COUNCIL HAS FINAL DECISION MAKING AUTHORITY FOR SOME ITEMS. [2:12] THOSE ARE APPROVED BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION. WE HAVE NONE OF THOSE TWO [2:17] ITEMS TONIGHT. WE HAVE TO STUDY ITEMS. [2:22] FIRST ITEM OF BUSINESS IS THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. PLEASE STAND IF YOU'RE ABLE TO [2:30] THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS ONE NATION UNDER GOD INDIVISIBLE WITH [2:37] LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. RIGHT. LIKE I MENTIONED BEFORE, WE [2:45] HAVE TO STUDY ITEMS THIS EVENING. SO ITEM ONE IS CASE PL2025-69. [2:51] IT'S A STUDY ITEM OF THE ENORMITY LAKES DISTRICT PLAN UPDATE THE NORM DALE BOULEVARD [2:58] 84TH STREET PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE AND PLANNING SUPERVISOR CARS TODAY YOU HAVE THE STAFF [3:03] REPORT [3:13] YOU SHOULD BE GOOD IF YOU JUST HIT THE ARROWS. OKAY I. [3:20] I ASSUME YOU ARE MR. QUEST. I AM, YES. ALL RIGHT, GREAT. I AM JEREMY MARQUIS. I'M A CIVIL ENGINEER WITH [3:27] ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT AT THE CITY HERE. I'M JOINED BY OUR CONSULTANT [3:32] MIKE LARSON AND BRIAN NEMETH WITH BOLTON AND MAKE WE'RE HERE TODAY TO DISCUSS PEDESTRIAN IMPROVEMENTS TO THE INTERSECTION OF 84TH STREET [3:39] AND NORMANDY BOULEVARD, THE NORMANDY LAKES DISTRICT PLAN [3:46] CURRENTLY HAS IDENTIFIED A PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE AS A LONG TERM OPTION ACROSS [3:54] NORMANDY BOULEVARD. AT THIS INTERSECTION A BRIDGE WOULD PROVIDE PEDESTRIANS WITH THE OPPORTUNITY TO AVOID VEHICLE TRAFFIC BUT ALSO HAS [4:02] SOME MAJOR PRETTY MAJOR DRAWBACKS INCLUDING SIGNIFICANT IMPACTS TO SURROUNDING PARKLAND AREAS AS [4:10] WELL AS [4:17] I'M SORRY I JUST LOST MY TRAIN OF THOUGHT. I'D THOUGHT HERE [4:27] AS WELL AS THE PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE WOULD NOT PROVIDE THE MOST DIRECT ROUTE FOR PEDESTRIANS WHICH MAY LEAD TO A LOW USAGE. [4:36] SO THIS STUDY CURRENTLY AIMS TO IDENTIFY ALTERNATIVE ACCURATE TREATMENTS THAT WILL IMPROVE PEDESTRIAN EXPERIENCE [4:43] AT THIS INTERSECTION AND WILL HAVE LESS IMPACTS TO THE SURROUNDING AREAS. BOATER MAKE HAS PREPARED THREE [4:50] ALTERNATIVES THAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR FEEDBACK ON FROM PLANNING COMMISSION TODAY SO WITH THAT I WILL PASS IT OVER TO MIKE LARSON FROM BOLTON TO [4:57] ME TO DISCUSS THE STUDY FURTHER AND THE ALTERNATIVES. WELCOME. MR.. LARSON THANK YOU. [5:03] THANK YOU, JEREMY. SO AS JEREMY MENTIONED, OUR STUDY REALLY DOES FOCUS ON [5:11] WHAT WHAT CAN WE DO TO THIS INTERSECTION TO MAKE IT FEEL SAFER, FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE TO PEDESTRIANS AND REALLY THE [5:18] PURPOSE OF THIS IS THERE'S A DIRECT NEED TODAY AT THIS INTERSECTION AND ON BOTH CORRIDORS AS WE'VE GOT [5:26] SURROUNDING LAND USES THAT ARE CONDUCIVE TO PEDESTRIAN GENERATING ACTIVITIES WITH THE [5:31] BUSINESSES ON THE NORTHWEST SIDE, THE COMMERCIAL AREAS, RESTAURANTS ON THE NORTHEAST SIDE AND THEN THE PARKLANDS [5:38] SIGNIFICANT TRAIL NETWORKS SOUTH OF THE INTERSECTION AND ALONG BOTH ROADWAYS 84TH STREET IS DESIGNATED AS A [5:45] PRIORITY CORRIDOR AS PART OF THE CITY'S ACTIVE TRANSPORTATION ACTION PLAN. [5:50] SO WE KNOW THERE'S A PLAN HERE . THERE NEEDS TO BE A PLAN HERE AND IT IS A PRIORITY LOCATION [5:57] BECAUSE OF THE INTERSECTIONS LOCATION, ITS PROXIMITY TO THE MAJOR HIGHWAYS JUST NORTH OF HERE, THE SIZE OF THE [6:02] INTERSECTION IT IS A DIFFICULT AND UNCOMFORTABLE LOCATION FOR PEDESTRIANS TO CROSS. [6:08] AND AS JEREMY MENTIONED, WE DO HAVE THAT PROGRAMED PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE OR OVERPASS BUT WE'RE LOOKING AT MORE FEASIBLE AT [6:16] GRADE ALTERNATIVES THAT MIGHT BE A BIT LESS IMPACTFUL. [6:23] SO STAFF DIRECTED US TO FIRST TAKE A CHI LOOK AT THE PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE RECOMMENDATION. [6:28] WHAT MIGHT THAT LOOK LIKE? WHAT MADE IT COST? WHAT CHALLENGES MIGHT NEED TO BE OVERCOME WITH A PROJECT [6:35] LIKE THAT? THE FIGURE ON THE LEFT SHOWS TWO POTENTIAL ALIGNMENTS ON WHAT THAT ROUTE MIGHT LOOK LIKE. [6:42] WE DON'T HAVE A RECOMMENDATION ON ONE OVER THE OTHER AT THIS POINT BUT WHAT YOU'LL NOTICE IS THAT BOTH ALIGNMENTS TAKE PEDESTRIANS AND BICYCLISTS [6:49] SIGNIFICANTLY OUT OF THE WAY OF AN EAST-WEST MOVEMENT ALONG 84TH STREET. AND WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT [6:55] PEDESTRIAN BRIDGES, UNDERPASSES, THINGS LIKE THAT THE MORE YOU INCREASE THE [7:02] TRAVEL TIME AND DISTANCE THAT A PEDESTRIAN HAS TO MAKE TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B, THE LESS LIKELY THEY ARE TO [7:09] USE IT. SO THERE ARE CHALLENGES WITH THIS WE ESTIMATE A STRUCTURE LIKE THIS MIGHT COST IN THE [7:16] REALM OF $5 MILLION SO IT IS A SIGNIFICANT INVESTMENT THAT COST COULD INCREASE. [7:22] WE'RE IN A SLIGHTLY RISKY AREA WITH THE VEGETATION THE WATER BODIES ON BOTH SIDES OF THE [7:28] OF THE SOUTH LEG OF THE INTERSECTION. THERE'S A HIGH POTENTIAL FOR POOR SOILS. OTHER CHALLENGES THAT MIGHT [7:35] NEED TO BE MITIGATED THAT MIGHT MAKE THAT COST GO UP. I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT ON THE SLIDE HERE IS [7:43] THAT LAST ONE WHERE IT COMES DOWN TO CONTEXT WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THIS INTERSECTION, HIGHWAY 100 IS JUST THE NORTH [7:50] LEG OF THIS WHERE WE'VE GOT A FREEWAY FACILITY WHERE IT'S CLEARLY DESIGNATED FOR VEHICLES. WE'VE GOT PEDESTRIAN [7:55] OVERPASSES ALL ALONG HIGHWAY 100. IF WE CONSTRUCT A SIMILAR [8:01] STRUCTURE A PEDESTRIAN OVERPASS OF THE SOUTH LEG HERE ,IT MAY FEEL LIKE AN EXTENSION OF HIGHWAY 100. [8:06] WE MIGHT SEE HIGHER SPEEDS PEOPLE COMING OFF THE FREEWAY AND TRAVELING INTO TOWN HERE [8:13] IN NORMAN BOULEVARD SO THAT ILLUSION OF SEPARATION THAT MIGHT COME WITH AN IMPROVEMENT LIKE THIS MIGHT HAVE NEGATIVE [8:19] IMPACTS FURTHER SOUTH. SO AS PART OF OUR STUDY OUR [8:26] FIRST STEP IS REALLY TAKING STOCK OF HOW THE INTERSECTION OPERATES TODAY AS FAR AS HOW IT FUNCTIONS FOR VEHICLES, [8:32] PEDESTRIANS, THE CRASH HISTORY, THINGS LIKE THAT. [8:38] A REALLY KEY THING TO KNOW ABOUT THIS INTERSECTION. IT'S PROBABLY THE HIGHEST VOLUME INTERSECTION IN THE CITY IF YOU EXCLUDE SOME [8:44] OF THE INTERCHANGES ON 494 AND THE SURROUNDING FREEWAYS REALLY BECAUSE THAT NORTH LIKE [8:50] IS THE END OF HIGHWAY 100 WE SEE OVER 32,000 VEHICLES PER DAY ACROSS THAT LEG. WE HAVE A LOT OF TRAFFIC [8:57] VOLUMES AT THIS INTERSECTION OF PEOPLE THAT WANT TO GET TO THOSE FREEWAY DESTINATIONS. [9:03] OPPOSITE OF THAT WE DO STILL SEE A GOOD AMOUNT OF PEDESTRIAN ACTIVITY HERE AT THIS INTERSECTION IN ONE DAY [9:10] WE SAW OVER 200 PEDESTRIANS CROSSING THIS INTERSECTION OVER THE COURSE OF 24 HOURS. JUST OVER HALF OF THOSE [9:15] ACTUALLY CROSSED THE NORTH LEG WHICH IS SLIGHTLY INTERESTING. IT IS THE HIGHEST VOLUME [9:21] VEHICLE CROSSING LOCATION OR LIKE AT THE INTERSECTION. BUT WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE [9:27] PEDESTRIANS AND FAST PATH BETWEEN POINT A AND POINT B, THEY REALLY WANT TO GET FROM [9:32] THAT BUSINESS PARK ON THE NORTHEAST OR THE NORTHWEST CORNER EXCUSE ME TO THE GAS STATION. THE RESTAURANTS ON THAT NORTHEAST SIDE. [9:40] AS FAR AS DELAYS GO AT THIS INTERSECTION, IT ACTUALLY OPERATES PRETTY WELL GRANTED ALL THE TRAFFIC THAT GETS [9:48] PUSHED THROUGH HERE DURING THE PEAK HOURS WE DO HAVE SOME FAILING MOVEMENTS. THERE IS SOME CONGESTION CERTAINLY DURING THE RUSH [9:53] HOURS BUT GENERALLY IT DOES FUNCTION WELL. WE DO HAVE SOME QUEUES FOR [9:59] LEFT TURN LANES THAT MIGHT EXCEED STORAGE CAPACITY PERIODICALLY DURING THE PEAKS BUT OPERATES QUITE ACCEPTABLY [10:06] AS FAR AS THE CRASH HISTORY AT THIS INTERSECTION IT'S ALL VERY GOOD NEWS. THE CRASH RATE AT THIS [10:14] INTERSECTION IS SIGNIFICANTLY LESS THAN THE AVERAGE CRASH RATE FOR SIGNALIZED INTERSECTIONS ACROSS THE STATE [10:22] . WE'VE ONLY SEEN EIGHT CRASHES AT THE INTERSECTION OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS AND OVER A FULL TEN YEAR HISTORY WE [10:28] HAVEN'T SEEN ANY PEDESTRIAN OR BIKE CRASHES. WE HAVEN'T SEEN ANY IDENTIFIABLE CRASH TRENDS DUE [10:35] TO THE LOW VOLUME OF CRASHES AND SOME OF THOSE HIGH SPEED RIGHT TURN AREAS ALSO DON'T HAVE ANY SIGNIFICANT CRASH TRENDS. [10:41] SO WHILE THE INTERSECTION MIGHT FEEL UNSAFE IT IS OPERATING NOMINALLY SAFE. [10:50] SO GETTING TO THE GOOD STUFF WITH SOME OF THE ALTERNATIVES THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT HERE, ALL OF THESE ARE LONG TERM [10:56] ALTERNATIVES WHERE WE'RE RECONSTRUCTING PORTIONS OF THE INTERSECTION MOVING CURB [11:02] LINES, TAKING AWAY LANES, THINGS LIKE THAT. OUR FIRST ALTERNATIVE IS LEFT TURN LANE REDUCTIONS ON TWO [11:10] OF THE LEGS. GOING BACK TO THE POINT ON THE HIGH VOLUME OF TRAFFIC AT THIS INTERSECTION WHEN WE'RE TRYING [11:17] TO IMPROVE PEDESTRIAN COMFORT AT SAFETY AN INTERSECTION USUALLY THE EASIEST WAY TO DO THAT IS TO MAKE THE INTERSECTION SMALLER BECAUSE OF THE SHEER VOLUME [11:25] OF TRAFFIC HERE THAT'S REALLY DIFFICULT TO DO. SO WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT HERE ARE THE TWO LOWEST VOLUME MOVEMENTS AT THE INTERSECTION [11:30] WHICH ARE THAT NORTHBOUND LEFT TURN AND THAT WESTBOUND LEFT TURN. SO BOTH OF THOSE HAVE DOUBLE [11:37] LEFT TURN LANES TODAY THIS CONCEPT WOULD PROPOSE TO REMOVE ONE OF THOSE LEFT TURN LANES TO CREATE A SINGLE LEFT [11:45] TURN LANE WHICH WOULD TAKE AWAY ONE LANE THAT A PEDESTRIAN HAVE TO CROSS CREATE A LARGE CENTER REFUGE [11:51] ISLAND TO MAKE THAT SPACE A LITTLE BIT MORE COMFORTABLE. IN ADDITION TO THOSE TWO IMPROVEMENTS WE'D ALSO TAKE AWAY TWO THREE LANES ACROSS [11:59] THE EAST LEG TO MAKE THAT CROSSING A LITTLE BIT SHORTER AS WELL. SO ADVANTAGES OF THIS CONCEPT WE DO DECREASE THE CROSSING [12:07] EXPOSURES ON THOSE TWO LEGS. WE DO HAVE LARGE REFUGE ISLANDS ON THOSE LEGS AS WELL [12:13] AND YOU'LL SEE IN COMPARISON TO THE OTHER TWO ALTERNATIVES THIS IS THE LEAST IMPACTFUL AND LEAST EXPENSIVE ALTERNATIVE OF THE THREE [12:20] DISADVANTAGES HERE. WE'RE NOT TOUCHING TWO OF THE LEGS THE NORTH LEG AND THE WEST LEG WOULD REMAIN AS IS AS [12:28] WOULD THE HIGH SPEED CHANNELIZED RIGHT TURN LANES THAT WE HAVE ON ALL FOUR [12:33] CORNERS. SO NO BENEFITS THERE AS FAR AS THAT IMPACTING THOSE LEFT TURN LANES THAT WE'RE REDUCING BY [12:40] HALF. WE'RE REDUCING THE OUR ABILITY TO STORE LEFT TURNERS IN THOSE STORAGE BAYS BY HALF. [12:47] SO PERIODICALLY DURING THE PEAK HOURS WE MAY SEE THOSE QUEUES BACK INTO THE THROUGH LANES AND BLOCK THROUGH [12:54] MOVEMENT TRAFFIC. SO OUR SECOND ALTERNATIVE IS A [12:59] BIT MORE AGGRESSIVE AND RECONSTRUCT HITTING THE RIGHT TURN LANE AREAS WITH A MORE MODERN DESIGN CALLED A LOW [13:06] ENTRY ANGLE RIGHT TURN LANE THE BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THESE AND WHAT'S OUT THERE TODAY YOU'LL NOTICE THEY'RE [13:13] MUCH SMALLER, THE RADIUS IS MUCH TIGHTER AND THE ANGLE AT WHICH THEY MEET THE CROSS STREET IS MUCH LOWER AND [13:20] THAT'S GOT TO IMPACTS ON HOW VEHICLES TRAVEL THROUGH THERE ONE BECAUSE THAT ANGLE IS SO MUCH LOWER YOU CANNOT DRIVE [13:28] THROUGH THAT TURN LANE AT SUCH A HIGH RATE OF SPEED LIKE YOU CAN TODAY. [13:35] THE OTHER IMPACT OF THAT LOW ENTRY ANGLE IS NOW WHEN YOU'RE GETTING TO THAT YIELD POINT OR [13:40] THAT MERGE POINT YOU'RE NOT LOOKING OVER YOUR SHOULDER TO SEE TRAFFIC ONCOMING AND [13:46] FINDING YOUR GAP. YOU'RE YOU'RE MORE STRAIGHT ON YOUR FIELD OF VISION IS MORE ALONG THE PATH OF YOUR VEHICLE. [13:51] SO WHAT THAT DOES IS IT FORCES THE DRIVER TO ACTUALLY SEE AND VISUALIZE THAT PEDESTRIAN CROSSING RATHER THAN LOOKING [13:58] OVER YOUR SHOULDER TO SEE ONCOMING TRAFFIC. SO BENEFITS THERE WE'VE GOT REDUCE TRAVEL SPEEDS AND [14:03] IMPROVE SIGHTLINES IN THOSE RIGHT TURN AREAS. WE DO REDUCE THE CROSSING [14:10] DISTANCE ON THE EAST AND WEST LEGS BY REMOVING THAT NORTHERNMOST WESTBOUND THROUGH LANE AND BECAUSE THIS CONCEPT [14:17] ISN'T ACTUALLY TAKING AWAY ANY TRAVEL LANES WE'RE JUST CHANGING GEOMETRY. WE'RE MAINTAINING THE I GUESS [14:23] AMOUNT OF THROUGHPUT THAT THIS INTERSECTION HAS. WE'RE NOT IMPACTING DELAY AND [14:30] PERFORMANCE VERY MUCH AT ALL DRAWBACKS HERE WE STILL DO HAVE CHANNELIZED RIGHT TURN LANES IN SOME FORM OR FASHION [14:36] . SOME FOLKS JUST DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THESE AND THAT'S A FAIR CONCERN. [14:44] IN ADDITION TO THAT, WHAT THIS GEOMETRY DOES IS IT MAKES THOSE RIGHT TURN LANE ISLANDS, THOSE LITTLE TRIANGLES ON THE CORNERS IT MAKES THEM MUCH [14:52] SMALLER THAN THEY ARE TODAY. THE ONES THAT ARE OUT THERE TODAY WHILE THEY HAVE THEIR DRAWBACKS, THEY'RE HUGE AREAS. SO WHEN YOU'RE SITTING ON THAT [15:00] ISLAND WAITING FOR THE WALK SIGN TO COME UP YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF SPACE AND A LOT OF SEPARATION FOR MOVING TRAFFIC. [15:05] SO THESE SMALLER DESIGNS MIGHT FEEL SLIGHTLY LESS COMFORTABLE [15:11] AS YOU'RE WAITING FOR YOUR WALK SIGN. OUR LAST ALTERNATIVE HERE IS A MODIFICATION OF THE SECOND [15:19] ALTERNATIVE WHERE THE NORTHERN HALF OF THE INTERSECTION REMAINS THE SAME AS ALTERNATIVE TWO BUT IN THE SOUTHERN HALF WE REPLACE THOSE [15:25] RIGHT TURN LANES WITH A MORE TRADITIONAL DESIGN WHERE THE RIGHT TURN LANE WOULD BE ADJACENT TO THE THROUGH LANE [15:31] THE BIGGEST ADVANTAGE HERE IS NOW RIGHT TURN LANES HAVE TO OBEY THE TRAFFIC SIGNAL THAN [15:38] RATHER THAN A YIELD SIGN. SO THAT GIVES OUR ENGINEERS AS I GUESS THE MOST AMOUNT OF TOOLS IN OUR ARSENAL TO [15:43] CONTROL THOSE RIGHT TURNERS WHETHER THAT BE WITH SIGNAL PHASES AND SIGNAL TIMINGS OR [15:49] WITH NO RIGHT TURN ON RED SIGNAGE, THINGS OF THAT NATURE SO IT OPENS UP THE DOOR TO DO MORE THINGS AS FAR AS [15:57] PEDESTRIAN SAFETY AT THE SIGNAL THE TRADITIONAL TURN LANE DESIGN ON THAT SOUTHERN HALF ALSO BEST ACCOMMODATES A [16:05] FUTURE CYCLE TRACK OR BIKE TRAIL ON THAT LEG AS BIKES NOW CAN JUST MAKE THAT CROSSING [16:12] IN ONE FLUID MOVEMENT RATHER THAN THREE SEPARATE MOVEMENTS . DRAWBACKS OF THIS ONE WE'RE ACTUALLY MAKING THE CROSSING [16:19] DISTANCE LONGER ON THE WEST AND SOUTH LEG SO THE IMPACTS OF THAT ARE I NOW HAVE TO CROSS MORE LANES OF TRAFFIC. [16:27] I HAVE TO GO FARTHER DISTANCE AND BECAUSE I'M GOING A FARTHER DISTANCE THE DURATION OF THE WALK SIGN HAS TO BE [16:35] LONGER SO THAT IMPACTS THE DELAY AND THE PERFORMANCE OF THE WHOLE SIGNAL SYSTEM. WE DO STILL HAVE THE RIGHT [16:42] TURN LANES THOSE CHANNELIZED ONES ON THE NORTHERN HALF AND THEN THE TRADITIONAL RIGHT TURN LANE DESIGN HAS SLIGHTLY [16:50] LESS CAPACITY THAN AT THE CHANNELIZED RIGHT TURN DESIGN . SO WHERE THAT GETS PROBLEMATIC IS ON THAT EASTBOUND RIGHT [16:58] TURN LANE WE DO SEE WITH THAT LOWER CAPACITY WE DO SEE SOME QUEUING ISSUES IN THE RUSH [17:04] HOUR WHEN WE'VE GOT A HIGH VOLUME OF RIGHT HAND TURNS SO WE COULD SEE QUEUES BACKING [17:11] INTO THE UPSTREAM INTERSECTION JUST TO THE WEST HERE A NORMAN CENTER DRIVE. IT'S NOT NECESSARILY A FATAL FLAW OF THIS BUT IT IS [17:18] SOMETHING THAT WE'D HAVE TO FIGURE OUT ONCE WE GET INTO THE DESIGN. SO NEXT STEPS WITH OUR STUDY WILL FURTHER REFINE OUR [17:26] ALTERNATIVES, MAKE TWEAKS HERE AND THERE. WE'LL TAKE A STEP BACK AND LOOK AT MORE OF AN 84TH STREET [17:32] CORRIDOR CONTEXT AS FAR AS HOW DOES A FUTURE CYCLE TRACK OR BIKE TRAIL WORK WITH THESE ALTERNATIVES? [17:40] WHERE DO WE CROSS PEOPLE OVER TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE USING THAT SOUTHERN CROSSING SINCE THAT IS PROBABLY THE PREFERRED LOCATION HERE AS FAR AS AN [17:48] EAST-WEST MOVEMENT GOES WILL GENERATE A FEW ALTERNATIVE COST ESTIMATES FOR THE VARIOUS ALTERNATIVES TO GIVE A SENSE [17:55] OF OF WHAT THESE MIGHT TAKE TO BUILD WE'LL ALSO LOOK AT POTENTIAL SHORT TERM ALTERNATIVES STRIPING STRIPING [18:05] SIGNAGE, LOW COST THINGS THAT CAN BE IMPLEMENTED IN THE NEAR [18:10] TERM TO GET US FROM FROM NOW TO THAT LONG TERM ALTERNATIVE [18:16] . AND THEN THE LAST PART WILL BE WRAPPING IT ALL UP WITH A STUDY REPORT TO SUMMARIZE THE FINDINGS AND AND DOCUMENT WHAT WAS STUDIED RIGHT. [18:28] RIGHT. AND THEN I JUST HAVE A FINAL SLIDE HERE JUST TO SUMMARIZE KIND OF SOME ADDITIONAL CONTEXT OR STEPS WITH THIS [18:35] PROCESS. AND SO IT WAS AS IT WAS KIND OF MENTIONED STAFF KIND OF FELT LIKE THE PEDESTRIAN [18:42] BRIDGE PROPOSAL DIDN'T QUITE MEET A COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS TO IMPLEMENT. SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE LOOKING AT [18:47] THESE AT GREAT ALTERNATIVES BUT BECAUSE IT'S IDENTIFIED IN OUR NORTHERN DALE LAKE [18:54] DISTRICT PLAN TO HAVE A PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE, THE CITY HAS CONTINUED TO PLAN FOR THAT IN ITS CIP AND SO PLANNING [19:02] STAFF ULTIMATELY MADE A DETERMINATION THAT FOR THE CITY TO STOP PROGRAMING IT IN ITS CIP WE NEEDED TO REMOVE [19:09] THE REFERENCE IN THE PLAN AND SO KIND OF DEPENDING ON YOUR FEEDBACK TONIGHT AND THE COUNCIL'S FEEDBACK, THE IDEAS [19:17] TO INCORPORATE THAT TO REMOVE ANY REFERENCES FROM THE PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE IN THE PLAN AND AMEND THAT TO INCORPORATE [19:25] SOME JUST BROADER GUIDELINES AROUND AT GRADE IMPROVEMENTS RELATED TO BICYCLE PEDESTRIAN SAFETY AND CONNECTIVITY. [19:33] AND SO WE WOULD ALSO PLAN IT'S ON THE 2025 WORK PLAN TO HAVE A BROADER DISCUSSION AROUND [19:40] THE NORMANDALE LAKE DISTRICT PLAN AND KIND OF DO ANOTHER UPDATE AND KIND OF SEEING WHERE WE'RE AT JUST BECAUSE OF THE CIP TIMELINE STARTING [19:48] THIS FALL. IT JUST UNFORTUNATELY DIDN'T QUITE NICELY ALIGN TO DO THIS AS PART OF THE BROADER UPDATE. SO WE'RE GOING TO BRING THAT [19:56] AT A DIFFERENT TIME. AND SO FOR KIND OF THE PURPOSES OF TONIGHT OR WHEN YOU WOULD SEE THIS AGAIN AT A FUTURE MEETING, IT'S REALLY TO HELP FRAME THE DISCUSSION. [20:03] WE ARE JUST REALLY TALKING ABOUT THIS INTERSECTION AND KIND OF PEDESTRIAN AND BICYCLE IMPROVEMENTS AND NOT SO MUCH AROUND THE KIND OF BROADER [20:11] CHANGES IN THE NORM IN THE LAKE DISTRICT THAT WILL BE A SEPARATE CONVERSATION LATER ON. BUT SO THAT IS ALSO JUST SOME [20:19] OF THE REASONS WHY YOU'RE YOU'RE SEEING THIS TONIGHT AND WE'RE LOOKING FOR YOUR FEEDBACK. AND SO WITH THAT WE DO HAVE [20:26] JUST SOME OPEN ENDED QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION AROUND EACH ALTERNATIVE. BUT I GUESS I JUST WANTED TO OPEN IT UP TO IN CASE ANYONE [20:32] HAD ANY KIND OF CLARIFYING QUESTIONS FOR STAFF OR THE CONSULTANT KIND OF BEFORE WE [20:39] DIVE INTO THAT. EXCELLENT. THANK YOU. I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS BUT ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS [20:46] ? I WANT TO GO FIRST. COMMISSIONER OGDEN OH, THAT WAS AMIGO FIRST. OKAY. MY FIRST QUESTION IS RELATED [20:53] TO BUS TRAFFIC. WHAT ARE THE WHAT'S BUS TRAFFIC HERE ON THIS [21:00] INTERSECTION LOOK LIKE AND IS THERE ANY SHOULDER YOU SHOULD OF A BUS IN THIS AREA DURING PEAK TIMES? [21:09] YEAH. REALLY? YEAH. OKAY IT LOOKS LIKE I THINK [21:18] THIS IS OKAY WE DON'T THINK [21:24] THEY USE THE SHOULDER CURRENTLY THAT'S SOMETHING WE CAN CERTAINLY LOOK INTO. THERE'S CERTAINLY BUS ROUTES THAT GO THROUGH HERE BUT ALL [21:31] OF THESE DESIGNS WOULD BE I GUESS CONDUCIVE TO BUS TRAFFIC AND MAINTAIN THOSE MOVEMENTS. GREAT. THANK YOU. [21:39] IF YOU WERE TO ROUGHLY ASSIGN I'M JUST TALKING THINKING ABOUT WHEN YOU GO TO A [21:44] RESTAURANT YOU GET THE $1 SIGN, $2 SIGN, $3 SIGN FOR A DOLLAR SIGN IF YOU WERE TO [21:50] ROUGHLY PUT A DOLLAR SIGN NUMBER ON THESE ALTERNATIVE [21:58] FEES, WHAT WOULD THEY LOOK LIKE? THAT'S A I LIKE THE WAY YOU PHRASED THAT QUESTION. [22:05] I WOULD SAY ALTERNATIVE ONE IS LIKELY $1 SIGN AND THEN ALTERNATIVES TWO AND THREE ARE [22:12] PROBABLY ONE AND A HALF TO $2 SIGNS. >> OKAY, THAT'S HELPFUL. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS [22:19] CONSTRUCTED? THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. NOT TOTALLY SURE WHO THE [22:24] QUESTION IS FOR SO I'LL ASK MR. CASSIDY. HOW IS THE CITY ULTIMATELY GOING TO MAKE THE DECISION ON THIS? SO YOU'RE GOING TO GET [22:30] FEEDBACK FROM US. YOU'RE GOING TO GET FEEDBACK FROM COUNCIL ARE WE THE FINAL DECISION MAKERS IS THERE IS BOLTON AND MAKE THE FINAL [22:35] DECISION MAKERS AFTER THEIR ENGINEERING ANALYSIS WHO'S WHO ULTIMATELY OR WHAT GOES INTO [22:41] THE FINAL DECISION YEAH CHAIR ALBRECHT COMMISSIONER COOKED IN I WOULD SAY IT'S A MIX OF ALL OF WHAT YOU MENTIONED [22:47] SO WE'RE WE'RE ASKING FOR FEEDBACK FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION TONIGHT ASKING FOR FEEDBACK FROM THE COUNCIL ON A [22:53] DIRECTION AND THEN OF COURSE [22:58] BOLTON AND AND THE CONSULTANT GROUP WORKING WITH OUR ENGINEERING STAFF AND PLANNING STAFF KIND OF INCORPORATE ALL OF THAT AGAIN KIND OF LIKE WAS [23:04] MENTIONED KIND OF THINKING ABOUT THE BROADER 84TH CORRIDOR AND HOW THE CYCLE TRACK MIGHT TIE IN TO SOME [23:12] OF THESE ALTERNATIVES THAT ALL KIND OF COME TOGETHER IN LIKELY KIND OF THE PREFERRED ALTERNATIVE THAT [23:19] STAFF WOULD MOVE WOULD LIKE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH. AND THEN FROM THERE WE WOULD KIND OF PRESENT THAT WITH THE KIND OF PROPOSED AMENDMENT [23:27] LANGUAGE IN THE NORMAN DALE DISTRICT PLAN BACK TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL. SO SPECIFIC TO THE THREE [23:34] ALTERNATIVES, CITY COUNCIL IS NOT TELLING YOU WHICH ONE WE'RE GOING TO DO. YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE OUR FEEDBACK AND LAYER THAT WITH [23:41] THE ENGINEERING ANALYSIS TO ULTIMATELY REACH WHAT WE FEEL IS THE BEST DECISION. YEAH. CHAIR ALBRECHT COMMISSIONER COOKED IN THAT THAT IS MY [23:46] UNDERSTANDING AND HOW WE'RE APPROACHING THIS. [23:52] ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS BEFORE WE GET INTO THEIR QUESTIONS? WE'RE READY FOR YOUR [24:01] QUESTIONS. ALL RIGHT. SOUNDS GOOD. SO YEAH, WE JUST REALLY HAD JUST KIND OF A GENERAL OPEN ENDED QUESTIONS FOR EACH [24:07] ALTERNATIVE AND SO THE QUESTIONS ARE THE SAME ON EACH . WE'LL START WITH THE FIRST ALTERNATIVE AND IT'S JUST REALLY GETTING SOME FEEDBACK [24:15] ON THE ELEMENTS THAT YOU LIKE ABOUT THIS ALTERNATIVE AND MAYBE WHAT YOU DON'T LIKE OR [24:20] WHAT YOU THINK IS MISSING AND WHAT KIND OF DO THAT FOR EACH [24:25] ONE JUST TO KIND OF HELP GIVE US SOME DIRECTION. SO THIS FIRST ALTERNATIVE LIKE IT WAS MENTIONED REDUCES A [24:33] LEFT TURN LANE ON TWO OF THE SEGMENTS TO THEN INSTALL KIND OF ROUGH MEDIAN REFUGE ISLANDS [24:40] ON TWO OF THOSE SEGMENTS. CAN I ASK ANOTHER QUESTION? YES. [24:48] BASED ON WHAT I'M HEARING AS YOU KNOW, ZERO BIKE PED ISSUE [24:55] IN THE LAST TEN YEARS NOW ARE THERE ANY ISSUES MAYBE CRASHES [25:01] ZERO AND OVERALL OF EIGHT CRASHES SEEMS LIKE A BIT OF A SMALL PROBLEM [25:12] . ARE THERE OTHER ALTERNATIVES? I'M JUST THINKING THAT GET THE DRIVERS ATTENTION MORE READILY [25:20] LIKE THE FLASHING LIGHTS OR THINGS LIKE THAT AND MAYBE THIS THERE'S TOO MUCH TRAFFIC HERE TOO TOO MUCH VOLUME [25:25] OF TRAFFIC TO ACTUALLY HAVE THOSE LIGHTS BE EFFECTIVE. BUT I'M THINKING ABOUT OTHER [25:32] PLACES WHERE I'M LIKE OH THE LIGHTS ARE ON. THERE'S A PEDESTRIAN AROUND. IS THAT SOMETHING THAT'S FEASIBLE HERE? YEAH, YEAH. [25:39] SO YOU DON'T TYPICALLY SEE LIKE THE FLASHING BEACONS AT SIGNAL SYSTEMS IT'S USUALLY ONE OR THE OTHER. THOSE FLASHING BEACONS ARE [25:47] TYPICALLY FOR MID-BLOCK CROSSINGS OR UNCONTROLLED CROSSINGS. BUT HERE WHERE WE HAVE A TRAFFIC SIGNAL THAT'S THE [25:53] OVERRIDING TRAFFIC CONTROL DEVICE. WE COULD LOOK AT THOSE BEACONS ON THE CHANNELIZED RIGHT TURN [26:00] LANES SINCE THAT'S TECHNICALLY AN UNCONTROLLED CROSSING AREA BUT BEING CAREFUL TO AVOID [26:08] SETTING PRECEDENT ON PUTTING THOSE EVERYWHERE, IT IS CERTAINLY A SPECIAL CASE IN THAT WE HAVE SUCH A HIGH [26:15] VOLUME ON THOSE AREAS. SO THAT'S SOMETHING WE'RE CONSIDERING. GREAT. THANK YOU. [26:20] COMMISSIONER HOOTON I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ALSO FOLLOWING UP ON COMMISSIONER ULBRICHT'S CONVERSATION A [26:27] LITTLE BIT. SO IF THE CRASH DATA IS FAIRLY LOW, IS THERE AN ALTERNATIVE TO DO NOTHING OR IS THAT NOT [26:34] RECOMMENDED? IT'S A GOOD QUESTION. [26:40] GOOD QUESTION. YEAH. WE ALL WONDER THAT. [26:47] YES, WE CERTAINLY COULD DO COULD DO NOTHING AT AT THIS INTERSECTION AND JUST JUST REMOVE THE PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE FROM THE DISTRICT PLAN IF [26:56] THAT'S IF THAT'S THE WAY THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION WANTS TO TO RECOMMEND THESE ADDITIONAL IMPROVEMENTS WOULD [27:03] HELP IMPROVE THE PEDESTRIAN EXPERIENCE AT THE INTERSECTION . SO WE DIDN'T INCLUDE THAT AS [27:08] AS AN ALTERNATIVE BUT THAT THAT IS AN OPTION. OKAY. [27:14] THANK YOU MADAM CHAIR. I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION. GO FOR THE PEDESTRIAN, MR. LARSEN YOU SAID I THINK THERE [27:22] WAS 200 PEOPLE OBSERVED AT THE INTERSECTION AS PEDESTRIANS. DO YOU HAVE A ROUGH IDEA OF WHAT PERCENTAGE WERE ON THE [27:27] SOUTHEAST CORNER? THAT SEEMS TO ME TO BE THE LOWEST VALUE CORNER OF THIS [27:32] INTERSECTION. I CAN'T SAY FOR SURE I KNOW THE NORTH CROSSING WAS THE HIGHEST USE THE SOUTH CROSSING [27:40] WAS THE SECOND HIGHEST AND THEN THE I GUESS THE TO NORTH SOUTH CROSSINGS ON EITHER SIDE WERE ROUGHLY A DOZEN OR TWO [27:48] PEDESTRIANS EACH. AND JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, WHEN YOU SAY NORTH CROSSING, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE EAST [27:56] WEST CROSSING ON THE NORTH PART OF THE INTERSECT. YES. YOU RIGHT. [28:03] THAT KIND OF SURPRISED ME, MR. CHAIR. WHAT IT SURPRISES ME TOO. YEAH. I MEAN THAT'S A COUPLE DOZEN [28:10] IS NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE 200 IS QUITE A BIT OF PEOPLE AND I CAN IMAGINE WORKING AT THE OFFICE PARK WANTING TO GO TO THE HOLIDAY OR WHATEVER THAT [28:17] RESTAURANT IS OVER ON THAT SIDE BUT YOU WOULD THINK THERE [28:24] WOULD BE MORE ON THE WEST SIDE FOR PEOPLE IN THE OFFICE PARK [28:31] POTENTIALLY WANTING TO ENJOY THE PARK DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THAT'S THE CASE. [28:38] I DON'T LOVE THIS. I DON'T LOVE THIS OPTION. [28:44] >> THE MORE WE I THINK THE MORE WE SLOW DOWN TRAFFIC [28:49] MOVEMENT. I THINK THE MORE DRIVERS GET FRUSTRATED AND THEN MAKE DUMB [28:56] DECISIONS LIKE TAKING A QUICK LEFT WHILE IT'S VERY MUCH READ [29:03] THAT CONCERNS ME FOR PEDESTRIAN EXPERIENCE RATHER THAN SOME OF THE OTHER ALTERNATIVES. [29:08] SO THIS ONE I'M KIND OF I'M I'M YELLOW ON THIS ONE [29:17] COMMISSIONER LOOKED AT MY WATCH I THINK WE CALLED IT AMBER. AMBER YES. AMBER THE TRAFFIC COMMISSIONER [29:24] MCGOVERN SORRY. I THINK YOU CAN COMMISSIONER [29:30] MCGOVERN I AM ALL IN FAVOR [29:37] OF NOT DOING ANYTHING AS WELL. WE HAVE LOW RATES OF CRASH. [29:45] WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, A GOOD AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WALKING THROUGH THIS AREA DISTURBANCE [29:53] OF TRAFFIC I THINK WILL CAUSE ACCIDENTS AND THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A RATE [29:58] THAT WE DON'T WANT TO CHANGE. SO EVERYTHING SEEMS TO BE FLOWING WELL IN THIS AREA AND [30:08] I JUST CAN'T WRAP MY HEAD AROUND SPENDING A $1 OR $2 [30:15] AMOUNT ON THESE ALTERNATIVES. COMMISSIONER LISA YEAH I HAD A [30:24] QUICK QUESTION AND THEN FOLLOWED UP BY COMMENT. SO ON THE SIDEWALKS THAT GO FROM SOUTH TO NORTH OR NORTH [30:31] TO SOUTH DEPENDING HOW YOU LOOK AT IT BUT DOES IT IS THERE ANY FURTHER SIDEWALK NORTH OF THE KIND OF EAST WEST [30:39] SIDEWALK? SO LIKE I WOULD ASSUME SO BECAUSE IT'S HIGHWAY BUT DO [30:44] PEOPLE GO PAST IS THERE ANY MORE SIDEWALK AFTER THAT? IS THAT WHERE ENDS IF THAT MAKES SENSE? [30:50] CHAIR I'LL BET. COMMISSIONER HE SAID I GUESS JUST A CLARIFICATION ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ON NORMANDALE BOULEVARD AS IT TURNS INTO [30:58] HIGHWAY 100 AND GOING NORTH? YEAH. I DON'T BELIEVE THERE IS SIDEWALK ON ON NORMANDALE [31:03] BECAUSE IT'S A FREEWAY AND THERE WOULDN'T BE PEDESTRIAN OR BICYCLE ACCESS IT LOOKS LIKE IN THE IMAGE THERE MIGHT [31:09] BE A SIDEWALK THAT KIND OF FUNCTIONS INTERNALLY TO THE OFFICE PARK THERE ON THE NORTHWEST CORNER BUT THERE [31:17] WOULD BE NO LIKE SIDEWALK OR BICYCLE FACILITY ON NORMANDY BOULEVARD ITSELF KIND OF NORTH OF THIS INTERSECTION. [31:22] OKAY. SO FOR MOST PEOPLE GOING FROM SOUTH TO NORTH USUALLY TURN [31:29] WEST OR EAST BASICALLY I WOULD ASSUME. OKAY. AND SO MY COMMENT IS I KNOW [31:36] WHEN YOU'RE GETTING OFF HIGHWAY 100 GOING SOUTH OR TURNING RIGHT THAT LANE [31:43] CLOSEST OR THE TWO LANES I BELIEVE IT'S A DOUBLE LEFT LANE DURING PEAK HOURS I [31:50] TRAVEL THAT ROUTE A LOT AND IT GETS REALLY PACKED WHERE IT IMPACTS THE OTHER TWO LANES GOING STRAIGHT SOUTH. [31:58] AND SO IF FOR MY UNDERSTANDING A LANE WOULD BE REMOVED ON [32:05] 84TH RIGHT DID YOU KNOW BECAUSE I BASICALLY IF IT IS I THINK THAT WOULD MAKE THAT PROBLEM A PROBLEM IF IT'S NOT [32:13] ALREADY YEAH NO PROBLEM. YEAH YEAH CHAIR OF A COMMISSIONER IS IN THIS ALTERNATIVE WHERE THEY WOULD BE REMOVING A LEFT TURN LANE [32:20] IS ON 84TH STREET SO IF YOU WERE GOING WESTBOUND ON 84TH AND YOU'RE TURNING LEFT TO GO [32:28] SOUTH ON NORMAN DALE THAT WOULD REMOVE A LANE AND THEN IF YOU'RE HEADING NORTHBOUND ON NORMAN DALE TO TURN LEFT OR [32:36] WESTBOUND ON TO 84TH WOULD REMOVE A LANE BUT SO THE IF I'M UNDERSTANDING THE LEFT TURN MOVEMENT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT COMING SOUTH ON NORMAN [32:43] DALE THERE WOULD NOT BE A REMOVAL OF A LEFT TURN LANE THERE OKAY AND THEN LAST COMMENT IF YOU DON'T MIND GO [32:50] FOR IT I'M SURE. YES. OVERALL I IF YOU KNOW [32:58] OBVIOUSLY LOOK AT THE SAFETY HISTORY IF IF IT'S BEEN PRETTY SAFE RELATIVELY SAFE I DON'T I WOULDN'T SUPPORT LIKE CHANGING [33:05] IT I THINK IT'S UNNECESSARY BY OPINION I KNOW THERE'S LIKE PEOPLE WHO ARE HAVE CONCERNS [33:13] MAYBE PEDESTRIANS RIGHT THAT EXPRESS SAFETY CONCERNS WHICH I UNDERSTAND AND YOU KNOW YEAH [33:22] I UNDERSTAND BUT I JUST THINK SPENDING MONEY UNNECESSARILY WHEN WE DON'T NEED TO ISN'T [33:30] MAYBE NOT WISE. THAT'S MY PERSONAL OPINION SO AS A CITY BUT YEAH. THANK YOU COMMISSIONER GOOD TO [33:38] THANK YOU MADAM CHAIR. SO I HAVE SOME JUST KIND OF GENERAL COMMENTS THOUGHTS ABOUT EVERYTHING. SO YOU STILL LIVE IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD FOR A COUPLE [33:45] OF YEARS I WOULD AVOID THIS INTERSECTION. THERE'S A PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE JUST NORTH OF THE IMAGE HERE THAT CROSSES OVER NORMAN DALE [33:51] THAT WAS A LOT SAFER WAY TO GET OVER TO THE OFFICE PARK AND DOWN INTO THE PARK WAS TO [33:56] TAKE WHAT I BELIEVE IS ACTUALLY AMERICAN BOULEVARD THAT BRIDGE THAT CROSSES OVER NORMAN DALE. [34:02] SO THAT'S A CERTAINLY MORE COMFORTABLE PLACE TO CROSS THAN THIS BUT I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE DO CROSS HERE IF YOU'RE WORKING IN THE OFFICE [34:08] PARK OR WHATEVER AND OBVIOUSLY THE DATA SUPPORTS THAT PEOPLE ARE CROSSING HERE. [34:14] I ASKED THE QUESTION OF WHETHER DOING NOTHING IS AN OPTION. I DON'T NECESSARILY SUPPORT DOING NOTHING. SAFETY IS SUCH A HARD THING [34:22] BECAUSE LIKE IT'S EASY TO SAY WE DON'T NEED TO DO THAT UNTIL SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS AND YOU'RE GOING OH MY GOD, WHY [34:28] DON'T WE DO SOMETHING AND SO LIKE IT'S A SAFETY IS SUCH A HARD THING WHERE YOU'RE TRYING TO PROTECT AGAINST THE FUTURE [34:34] WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW SOMETHING BAD IS GOING TO HAPPEN BUT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO IS PRUDENT TO KEEP IT SAFE SO NOTHING DOES BAD DOES HAPPEN. [34:39] SO IT'S LIKE A VERY NUANCED AND COMPLICATED THING AND SO [34:45] THE OTHER THING I STRUGGLE WITH AND THE REASON I ASKED MR. CASSIDY WHO AND HOW WE [34:50] MAKE THIS DECISION IS BECAUSE I ALWAYS GET UNEASY WHEN WE AS LAYPEOPLE ARE ASKED TO MAKE [34:57] ENGINEERING DECISIONS LIKE I JUST KIND OF FIND IT A LITTLE IT'S JUST OUT OF MY LANE. I DON'T HAVE EXPERTISE [35:02] IN TRAFFIC DESIGN AND I REALLY RELY HEAVILY ON OUR OUR ENGINEERS AND FOR THEM TO MAKE THE RIGHT DECISION. [35:09] SO HONESTLY IF I TOTALLY HAD IT MY WAY THE CITY COUNCIL WOULD HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS. WE WOULD HAVE NOTHING TO DO [35:14] WITH THIS. THIS IS AN ENGINEERING BASED DECISION AND THEY DO WHAT'S BEST BY CODE AND BY BEST [35:20] PRACTICE AND THAT WE TOTALLY LEAVE THIS UP TO OUR TRAFFIC ENGINEERS. THAT'S NOT THAT'S NOT WHAT'S BEING ASKED OF US. [35:25] SO I GUESS I'LL PROVIDE SOME COMMENTS RELUCTANTLY BUT IF IT WERE TOTALLY UP TO ME I WOULD HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS [35:31] THAT THIS WOULD BE AN ENGINEERING DECISION. SO WITH ALL OF THAT SAID, I GUESS I'M OKAY WITH THIS. [35:36] IT'S I THINK I LIKE OTHER ALTERNATIVES BETTER BUT I [35:42] GUESS IF LIKE BEING THERE'S A $1 SIGN THING TO ME IF IT'S ONLY $1 SIGN AND WE MAYBE HAVE A CHANCE TO MAKE IT SAFER, I'M [35:48] OKAY WITH IT IF WE GO TO THE [35:54] NEXT ALTERNATIVE. YEAH I WAS JUST TRYING TO GET THERE. MY COMPUTER'S DELAYING I GUESS WHILE THIS IS COMING UP. [36:01] THERE WE GO. YEAH. AGAIN, IT'S A SIMILAR QUESTION I GUESS MAYBE ANOTHER WAY TO THINK ABOUT IT IS HOW YOU FEEL [36:06] ABOUT THESE LOW ANGLE CHANNELIZED RIGHT TURNS VERSUS [36:12] THE KIND OF EXISTING CHANNELIZED RIGHT TURN LANES THAT ARE OUT THERE TODAY. SO THAT'S REALLY THE MAIN [36:17] CHANGE HERE WITH THIS ALTERNATIVE TOO. IF YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON [36:24] THAT THAT ELEMENT OF HAVING A LOW ANGLE ENTRY COMPARED TO WHAT'S OUT THERE TODAY? [36:31] >> COMMISSIONER OGDEN I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS MADAM CHAIR, I WAS MOST SURPRISED BY IN THE STAFF REPORT WE RECEIVED AND FROM THE CONSULTANT WAS THAT [36:38] THERE HAVEN'T BEEN MORE AND MORE ACCIDENTS GOING WESTBOUND ON I-84 TO NORTHBOUND ON NORMAN DALE THAT VERY FAST AND [36:46] THEN YOU HAVE TO MERGE THEY'RE GOING PRETTY HIGH SPEED AS PEOPLE ARE SPEEDING UP GETTING ON TO WHAT TURNS INTO BE 100 AND SO I DO THINK THIS THIS [36:53] DESIGN WOULD CERTAINLY MAKE US SAFER BECAUSE IT'S SO AVAILABLE TODAY THAT PEOPLE THINK THEY CAN JUST KIND OF MERGE AND PEOPLE ARE GOING [37:02] PRETTY DARN FAST GETTING READY TO GET ON TO WHAT IS 100. SO I DO LIKE THIS FROM THAT STANDPOINT BUT THAT'S A TRAFFIC QUESTION DOESN'T [37:08] REALLY HAVE IT'S NOT REALLY A PEDESTRIAN THING SO I DON'T KNOW I AGAIN I THINK I LIKE [37:16] THIS I DON'T I DIDN'T LOVE ANY OF THE OPTIONS TO BE HONEST WITH YOU. I WAS REALLY HOPING TO SEE SOMETHING WHERE THERE WAS A [37:22] REFUGE ISLAND ON EVERY MOVEMENT, EVERY PEDESTRIAN MOVEMENT BUT SOUNDS LIKE THAT'S NOT AN ENGINEERING [37:28] ACCOMPLISHMENT THAT CAN BE MADE HERE. SO WE'RE KIND OF DEALING WITH WHAT WE'VE GOT. [37:35] THE OTHER THOUGHTS ON THIS ALTERNATIVE [37:42] THIS FEELS OKAY I LIKE THE GEOMETRY OF IT BUT I DO APPRECIATE COMMISSIONER [37:50] CAPTAIN'S THOUGHTS ABOUT NOT BEING A TRAFFIC ENGINEER BECAUSE I AM NOT A TRAFFIC ENGINEER. [37:55] I'M NOT EVEN AN ENGINEER SO I DON'T EVEN KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS FIELD AND I THINK THAT [38:05] SLOWING DOWN THE TRAFFIC IN THE THESE CHANNELIZED RIGHT [38:12] TURNS IS A GOOD THING REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT THE GOAL IS TO INCREASE SAFETY [38:24] OR TO SLOW DOWN TRAFFIC GENERALLY IT FEELS LIKE THE GOAL HERE THOUGH IS TO SLOW [38:32] DOWN THE TRAFFIC WHICH THEN AGAIN I GUESS INCREASE THE SAFETY FOR A PEDESTRIAN. BUT I THINK THE THE IDEA [38:39] OF CROSSING AT A FREE RIGHT FOR A PEDESTRIAN IS NOT AN [38:47] IDEAL SCENARIO REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE GEOMETRY IS. AND MY THOUGHT [38:57] HIS THOUGHTS ON THAT ONE, WE MOVE TO THREE. [39:03] ALL RIGHT. WE'RE MOVING TO THREE. ALL RIGHT. AND THEN THREE AGAIN ON ON [39:08] THIS ONE PROBABLY THE MAIN DIFFERENCES THERE ON THOSE KIND OF SOUTHERN PORTIONS WE WOULD BE REMOVING THE CHANNELIZED RIGHT TURN LANES [39:16] AND HAVING A MORE TRADITIONAL RIGHT TURN LANE ON THE SOUTHERN PORTION OF THE INTERSECTION. [39:21] SO I GUESS AGAIN KIND OF ON THIS ELEMENT DO YOU DO YOU LIKE THAT? DO YOU PREFER A TRADITIONAL [39:27] RIGHT TURN VERSUS A CHANNELIZED RIGHT TURN? WHAT YOU DON'T LIKE ABOUT IT OR WHAT YOU THINK IS MISSING [39:32] HERE? WELCOME. ANY FEEDBACK? COMMISSIONER MCGOVERN WHEN WE [39:38] TALK ABOUT TRAFFIC SAFETY AND PEDESTRIAN BICYCLE SAFETY, I THINK THIS ONE IS NOT GOOD [39:45] CUTTING OFF THOSE TURN LANES [39:52] AND MAKING IT AN ACTUAL STOP TAKES THE FOCUS OFF OF LOOKING [39:59] FOR PEOPLE BECAUSE YOU'RE LOOKING AT TRAFFIC COMING TOWARD YOU. [40:07] I, I CAN'T WRAP MY HEAD AROUND THIS ONE. I DON'T LIKE IT. [40:14] COMMISSIONER COOK THANKS MADAM CHAIR. ALSO HAVE SOME RESERVATIONS [40:20] AGAIN, I DON'T FEEL SUPER STRONGLY ABOUT ANY OF THESE BUT ADDING A LANE SEEMS LIKE KIND OF A STEP BACKWARDS HERE. [40:27] I THINK WHAT WE COULD ACCOMPLISH WITH ALTERNATE ALTERNATIVE NUMBER TWO IS IS KIND OF BETTER THAN THIS BUT I [40:34] REALLY HATE TO USE WORDS LIKE BETTER BECAUSE THAT'S THAT'S THAT'S UNFAIR OF ME TO SAY THAT. [40:40] COMMISSIONER YOU SIR. THANK YOU MADAM CHAIR. I GUESS THIS IS JUST MORE OVERALL FOR JUST OVERALL KIND [40:48] OF ADDING TO WHAT I WAS SAYING EARLIER IF WE HAVE LET'S SAY DATA ON THE PASS I BELIEVE [40:55] IT'S TEN YEARS RIGHT AND IT SHOWED NO MAJOR INCIDENTS WITH PEDESTRIANS OR BICYCLISTS THAT [41:03] IS IF WE WERE TO CHANGE THIS I KNOW OUR INTENTION IS TO [41:10] IMPROVE SAFETY BUT WHAT IF IT DID DOPS AT LEAST WITH WHAT IT IS CURRENTLY WE KNOW HOW IT IS [41:15] OPERATING RIGHT IN TERMS OF SAFETY BUT WHAT IF THERE'S UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES FOR [41:22] LACK OF A BETTER TERM OR I THINGS THAT HAPPEN? MY MAIN POINT IS THE WAY IT'S [41:29] SET UP NOW IS WE KNOW THAT THERE HASN'T BEEN MAJOR SAFETY INCIDENTS SO IF WE DID INVEST IN CHANGE THIS I JUST FOLLOW [41:37] THE CITY PLAN TO THE TEE RIGHT [41:43] MAYBE TEN YEARS FROM NOW IT DOES IMPROVE MORE BUT MAYBE ALSO IT NOT YOU KNOW SO WITH [41:51] ONE WE HAVE PRIOR HISTORY AND WITH OTHER WE DON'T BUT OBVIOUSLY EVERYBODY HAS GOOD [41:58] INTENT SO THAT'S KIND OF MY OVERALL STANDING. >> YEAH YEAH I AGREE WITH OTHER COMMISSIONERS ON THAT. [42:06] THIS ONE IS PROBABLY IN MY OWN WELL SECOND TO LEAST FAVORITE PROBABLY I THINK ALTERNATIVE TWO IS PROBABLY IF WE'RE GOING [42:13] TO PICK BETWEEN ALL THREE OF THEM I THINK THAT'S THE ONE THAT I WOULD GO WITH STILL NOT [42:20] REALLY LOVE IT AND I THINK SO MAKES A REALLY GOOD POINT ABOUT IF THERE ISN'T AN ISSUE [42:28] NOW ARE WE GOING TO BE CREATING AN ISSUE AGAIN, I'M NOT A TRAFFIC ENGINEER SO I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T HAVE EXPERTISE ABOUT [42:36] WHAT POTENTIALLY COULD OR COULDN'T HAPPEN HERE. [42:42] I HAVE NEVER CROSSED THE ROAD HERE. I'VE ONLY WALKED IN THE PARK SO I HAVE NO PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH IT EITHER. [42:50] ANY OTHER THOUGHTS? COMMISSIONER MCGOVERN, IS THERE AN ALTERNATIVE FOR LIKE [42:57] LEAVING EVERYTHING THE WAY IT IS AND BUILDING A BRIDGE SIMILAR THAT THE ONE THAT GOES [43:05] FROM NORMAN 84TH FROM THE OFFICE PARK TO THE LAKE WOULD [43:12] THAT BE SUFFICIENT ENOUGH WITHOUT CHANGING ANY OF THE [43:19] TRAFFIC BUT JUST BUILDING A BRIDGE THAT THEY CAN GET ACROSS SAFELY? BUT AGAIN THE RATE OF CRASH IS [43:27] SO LOW WHY CHANGE COMMISSIONER [43:38] MCGOVERN ARE YOU REFERRING TO A PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE ACROSS NORMAN DALE BOULEVARD? [43:43] YES OR OKAY THAT I MEAN I GUESS THAT'S WHAT'S ORIGINALLY IN THE DISTRICT PLAN FOR A LONG TERM OPTION IS IS A [43:50] PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE ACROSS NORMAN DALE BOULEVARD THAT AS [43:57] MENTIONED EARLIER THAT THAT WOULD BE SIGNIFICANT IMPACTS TO THE SURROUNDING PARKLANDS [44:05] AND MAY PROVIDE AN INDIRECT PEDESTRIAN CROSSING WHICH MAY LEAD TO LOWER WATER USAGE THAN [44:12] WE WOULD WANT FOR SUCH AN EXPENSIVE BRIDGE. SO THAT THAT WAS ONE REASON WE [44:17] WERE EXPLORING AGREED TREATMENTS SUCH AS [44:23] ALTERNATIVES 123 AT THE INTERSECTION INSTEAD OF THE PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE. >> OKAY. THANK YOU. [44:28] I KNOW LIKE ON JULY 3RD IT WOULD BE VERY USEFUL BUT THAT [44:34] ONE DAY OUT OF THE YEAR BUT THANK YOU ANY OTHER GENERAL [44:40] THOUGHTS? I HAVE? [44:49] I KNOW THE OWNERSHIP OF THE OFFICE PARK IS A BIT IN FLUX BUT HAVE THEY BEEN ENGAGED HAVE BEEN INTERESTED [44:58] IN ENGAGING ON THIS? I MEAN THEY WOULD HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE WITHIN THEIR TENANCY [45:06] THAT WOULD BE THEY WOULD BE THE ONES WHO WOULD BE USING THIS. SO DO THEY HAVE ANY OPINIONS, THOUGHTS? [45:14] YEAH. CHAIR ALBRECHT I WOULD SAY WE HAVE NOT ENGAGED THE OFFICE [45:21] PARK AND I DON'T THINK IT WAS PART OF THE ORIGINAL PLAN SO I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR ENGINEERING AND THE CONSULTANT TEAM BUT THAT CERTAINLY A GOOD [45:29] GOOD POINT OR MAYBE ONE OPPORTUNITY TO DO SOME LOW LOW STAKES ENGAGEMENT AND GETTING SOME FEEDBACK AS THEY'RE [45:37] PROBABLY MORE LIKELY THE FOLKS THAT ARE CROSSING THERE ON A REGULAR BASIS. [45:43] COMMISSIONERS YEAH. THANK YOU MADAM CHAIR. I THINK IT'D BE REALLY [45:48] BENEFICIAL IF AND IF POSSIBLE TO LIKE DO LIKE A SURVEY [45:54] CONTACT THE CEO OR SOMETHING OF THE COMPANY OR OFFICE RIGHT AND DO LIKE A GENERAL SURVEY [46:00] OPTION PROBABLY OPTIONAL BUT YEAH IF MOST OF THE PEOPLE ARE [46:06] THE PEOPLE THAT WORK THERE THAT ARE GOING TO BE IMPACTED OR HAVE BEEN IMPACTED, THEN SEEING A GENERAL SURVEY ON [46:14] FROM THEM WOULD BE LIKE I THINK PRETTY BENEFICIAL TO IF POSSIBLE YOU KNOW YEAH YEAH I [46:21] WILL SAY COMMISSIONER YOU SAID PUBLIC OUTREACH WAS NOT INCLUDED AS AS PART OF THIS SCOPE OF WORK THAT WILL BE [46:29] INCLUDED LATER WITH THE DISTRICT PLAN UPDATE THAT THAT IS A GOOD POINT THAT WE SHOULD REACH OUT TO THE THE BUSINESS [46:37] PARK ONCE ONCE THE DISTRICT PLAN UPDATE IS IS READY TO BE UPDATED. [46:43] I WOULD SAY HOLIDAY TOO. I MEAN THEY WANT TO HAVE MULTIPLE MODES OF TRAFFIC THOUGH THEIR GAS STATION BUT [46:49] THEY PROBABLY BENEFIT FROM BEING CLOSE TO THE OFFICE PARK AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST [46:56] HOP OVER THERE SO BE INTERESTING TO KNOW WHAT THEIR THEIR THOUGHTS ARE AS WELL [47:02] RIGHT? OR TO MAKE ENGINEERING HOW DO [47:10] YOU FEEL? ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? YEAH. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. DO ANYTHING ELSE? I WAS JUST LOOKING OVER TO [47:18] BOLT AND LINCOLN ENGINEERING. I THINK WE'RE OKAY SO OKAY. ANY OTHER FINAL THOUGHTS, COMMISSIONER LISA YEAH, MAYBE THE SURVEY COULD LOOK THANK [47:26] YOU BY THE WAY. MANAGER MAYBE IT COULD LOOK LIKE SOMETHING LIKE IS THIS AN ISSUE? DO YOU BELIEVE THIS IS AN ISSUE IF YOU DO WHICH ONE [47:33] WOULD YOU PREFER? ONE, 2 OR 3? SO IT JUST YEAH. UNSOLICITED ADVICE. YEAH. THANK YOU. [47:40] YEAH, SOUNDS GOOD. THANK YOU. YEAH. I MEAN IN COMPARISON TO OTHER INTERSECTIONS I MEAN I DON'T KNOW I REALLY DON'T KNOW [47:45] ANYTHING ABOUT TRAFFIC ENGINEERING BUT IS 200 PEOPLE A LOT? [47:51] YEAH FOR AN INTERSECTION I'M GETTING NODS. OKAY, SO 200 PEOPLE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE CROSSING THE STREET? YEAH. OKAY FAIR ENOUGH. [47:58] BUT SO LIKE I'M JUST THINKING ABOUT LIKE WHERE ELSE COULD BE SIMILAR LIKE WHAT ABOUT THE LIKE ACROSS LYNDALE ON 84TH BY [48:09] LIKE THE DEVENUS AND THEN TO THE GAS STATION OVER THERE LIKE WHAT'S ROUGHLY RETHINKING [48:17] AND SURE JAILBREAK I DON'T I GUESS I DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER ANY OTHER DATA FOR PEDESTRIAN [48:24] CROSSING VOLUMES. I DON'T KNOW IF ANY OF THE OTHER I MEAN WOULD YOU SAY LIKE MUCH LESS MUCH LESS OKAY [48:31] . ALL RIGHT. SO THIS IS I MEAN THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE SO THAT'S THAT'S GOOD. GOOD. I THINK THAT THAT THAT MAKES [48:37] IT IMPORTANT FOR US TO AT LEAST DISCUSS BUT I DO THINK [48:43] ENGAGING THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTUALLY THE PEOPLE WHO ARE CROSSING HERE WOULD BE GOOD [48:48] AND IT FEELS LIKE ANECDOTALLY IT FEELS LIKE IT'S PROBABLY [48:53] OFFICE PARK PEOPLE OR HOLIDAY PEOPLE AND NOT NECESSARILY PEOPLE WHO ARE ENJOYING THE NORMAL LIKE PARK THERE [49:01] PROBABLY IS SOME BUT I WOULDN'T SAY THAT'S PROBABLY IF THERE'S 200 ON THE NORTH SIDE AND ONLY A COUPLE DOZEN [49:09] ON THE OTHER SIDES SEEMS LIKE A A WIN WIN SITUATION TO BE ASKING WAS YOUR CHARACTER [49:16] ANECDOTALLY MADAM CHAIR, WHEN I LIVED OVER HERE I WOULD SEE THERE'S QUITE A BIT OF APARTMENTS ON THIS NORTHEAST PART HERE AND SO PEOPLE WOULD GO FROM THEIR [49:23] APARTMENT TO THE PARK. SO I THINK THAT'S PART OF YOUR DEMOGRAPHIC. SO YEAH. [49:30] ALL THANK YOU. THANK YOU. >> ALL RIGHT. [49:37] ITEM TWO OUR APOLOGIES. THIS IS A STUDY ITEM SO THERE'S NO PUBLIC HEARING AND THIS WILL GO ON TO THE CITY [49:44] COUNCIL'S STUDY ITEM AGENDA FOR THE MEETING ON JUNE 30TH [49:50] 2025. NEXT ITEM WE HAVE THIS EVENING IS ALSO A STUDY ITEM. IT IS THE PLANNING COMMISSION [49:55] POLICY AND ISSUES UPDATE AND PLANNING SUPERVISOR CENTENARIO [50:01] DO YOU HAVE THE REPORT? CHAIR ALBRECHT COMMISSIONER [50:06] HAS A BRIEF REPORT YES I JUST WANTED TO BRING UP TO SPEED ON YOUR UPCOMING MEETINGS ON JUNE [50:13] 26TH MORE OF A LONG RANGE ORIENTED MEETING WITH ANNUAL [50:20] HOUSING REPORT AND A STUDY ITEM ON HOA IS HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS. [50:28] THAT'S ALL WE HAVE IDENTIFIED SO FAR FOR JUNE 26TH JULY 10TH [50:33] MIX OF ITEMS SWEARING IN NEW PLANNING COMMISSIONERS AND WE HAVE A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR AN IN A SCHOOL THAT'S [50:41] LOOKING FROM ONE OFFICE BUILDING TO ONE THAT'S NEXT DOOR. THEN WE HAVE A CITY INITIATED [50:48] DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION WHICH WE DON'T SEE VERY OFTEN AND THAT'S FOR A SALT SHED EXPANSION TO A PUBLIC WORKS [50:53] BUILDING AND THEN A FUTURE PHASE FOR A NEW CITY FLEET MAINTENANCE BUILDING. [51:00] AND THEN WE HAVE A ANOTHER STUDY ITEM ON THE BLOOMINGTON FERRY ROAD CORRIDOR IN TERMS [51:08] OF THE THE NEW COMMISSIONERS THAT ARE COMING ON BOARD, PLANNING MANAGER JOHNSON IS TRYING TO COORDINATE SOME [51:15] TRAINING OPPORTUNITIES FOR THOSE ARE TRAINING AND ORIENTATION OPPORTUNITIES FOR THOSE COMMISSIONERS. THAT'S ALL I HAVE. GREAT. [51:20] ANY ITEMS FROM THE COMMISSION [51:26] ? ALL RIGHT. SEEING NONE THAT WILL CONCLUDE [51:33] OUR JUNE 12TH, 2025 MEETING OF THE BLOOMINGTON PLANNING COMMISSION. HAVE A GREAT NIGHT