[0:00] Oh, you got an oh NO you're right on time. I gotta just started off. My apologies. Welcome. Thank you. Glad to be here. [0:15] Thanks everybody. I appreciate your intelligence, we've got one person on the list here tonight. It looks like Sally. Andy, are you looking to speak as well or are you a casual observer tonight? [0:34] Sounds good. So as we typically do, we we parse it out, but we give you NO more than 10 min, so, yeah, I know. All kinds of time for days. If I might, I had a resident contact me wanted to connect virtually, with a number of things, I don't know that she's gonna be able to do. [0:54] If I might just be able to get like a minute to just kind of concerns and questions on on her behalf cause we had a lengthy conversation, but I think that that would be very appropriate, we'll make sure that's on the list as well. Great, thank you. Good evening, Sally, welcome. Bye. [1:11] I have one question. Can officers anyone for any reason under police surveillance? I don't know the answer to that. I I believe the notion of police surveillance comes from. [1:26] Command staff. I don't think individual officers can do that, but I don't know that for certain. Okay, so it would come from command staff from your, your just that would seem really I would, ask the question. [1:44] If you're suggesting that, well that was gonna be my next question. Yes. I was just your name being in the report is the same as police surveillance because I don't think that's the same thing. Yeah, yeah, I do think it is the same thing. [2:00] And, you know, somebody is driving into the neighborhood with my name in a report and how does it get into a report? It just doesn't show up into report. It's not like, you know, I could say to the police officer, I could call him on a personal line and go. [2:20] Yeah, could you come, you know, my neighbor's bothering me. Could you just come and check that neighbor out for me, you know, and then the police putting it, my neighbor's name in a report and driving into the area? It's not it's it's more official to get your name in a CAD report and just speaking. [2:40] Into what he had said. Well, but I, my next question was gonna be because I know exactly where you're going with it, Sally, and NO, as Jamie said, you're. [2:48] I don't think this does not constitute police surveillance. I think police surveillance I think is decisions made at the command staff level, and your name being in what do we, they weren't even police reports they were called a CAD. The roll call notes is not the same as notes, it's a CAD report. C a. [3:08] AD, it's infuteriated dispatch is what CAD stands for. Yeah. And so. [3:13] For the name to get there, it has to get there in some some way it gets there. So it doesn't just show up there. There is some reason it's in, my name is in a report. You're, you're right, and you asked that question. [3:29] And I asked that question to the chief, and the chief asked the question of the officers and NO one could recall the details of the specifics behind all that. They they they could not. It was what nine years ago now, so they did not, they, they, we asked that question. [3:44] We answered that question and don't know what else we can do. I mean, they don't recall. Five years ago, but I had started asking for an internal affairs investigation. I had started started inquiring about this much earlier than five years. I mean, it's like I do a lot of work before I come here in front of. [4:04] To the council. It's not like I have, you know. [4:07] An immediate complaint and come right in here. I do background work. I do emails back and forth. I try to get someone to engage. I want to know what had happened, why was my name in there? And there should be some official reason you'd like for instance. [4:25] Police officers can't just look up somebody's phone number and see who is it is. Or for instance, if I had somebody parked in my driveway, they can't run the plate. They can run the plate if there's a reason, if there's a legal reason to run the plate. [4:42] That would be the same with my name being in a report. There has to be a legal reason my name is in report. And what's really disturbing is I don't feel like any of you guys see how important this is, how really disturbing is. You can't have police but what rogue? I mean they can't just. [5:01] Decide oh I'm gonna drive in the neighborhood because I heard something was going on over there. And then to clarify again, I wasn't in the area at all since like the end of September. So this makes absolutely NO sense. There's NO data to say eight, there's eight reports and there's NO data and I'm. [5:21] We're not getting an impression that any of you cares, it's like oh yeah please can check up on our residents anytime they want. And it's like, No, they can't. It legally can't. [5:32] And I wanna know why, and you guys should wanna know why too, and you also should hope that I'm the only one that it's happening too and you should hope to investigate it and say this is it. Please, this doesn't happen again. We are fixing it. We don't do this to our residents. Our residents should know that. [5:52] Yes, if they're doing something that's illegal. [5:55] They will have police presence, but unless there is a legal reason, we leave our residents alone. Sally, your initial question was why your name was in there. We asked and there was that they they did not come up with an answer. No one could remember why. Your next question, does this warrant an internal investigation? I don't believe it does. And that's what I'm. [6:15] My comment was for is that's disturbing. It's just I understand I appreciate your comment on it and I heard your comment on it and I appreciate it. I don't believe this situation warrants an internal investigation. And why? I mean are you ok that the police are just driving into neighborhood to look at one person? [6:33] That isn't what happened. That that isn't what happened. How is that what happened? You had your hand up please, was there a another party in those reports? Yes. Thank you. And wasn't one person. Okay. Yeah, it was the Dar Alfarouke building. So I were they surveilling them in your opinion? No, so. [6:53] No, my understanding from the email I got, it was generated because of them. If it was, there should be data behind that. They can't just go Daryl Froke wants us to go look at salaries. That was the report said. That's not what the report said. We all saw the report. It's not what it said. And what did it say? [7:10] It said you and them and they went to the neighborhood. Not to you, not to anybody else. They just went into They go into the neighborhood. Daryl Froke wants us to check out the neighborhood. That's fine. But that's not what it said. It said because of Sally and Daryl froke. And again, to clarify, I wasn't in the area at. [7:30] After the end of September. So why was my name in a report in December and January? So if I may mr.. Just just very quickly, let's wrap this up because we go on a ride along with the police. I would highly recommend it. Here's why. Because when you get to roll call, they are given data as part of turnover. [7:49] And that turnover data includes these cads that say, hey, we've been asked by command staff to do, to do extra patrols in these areas for a variety of reasons. That could be because of previous complaints. Those complaints could have been from three or four months ago. They could have been from a year ago. We don't know, and we we. [8:09] Don't have that data. They get those kinds of reports, because they're asked to do additional. [8:15] Community policing that it happens at the mull of America, it happens at Bloomington blooming meadows. It happens on the east side, on the west side, e.g.. There were a rash of car jack car breakings in the, in at the big, the big apartment building that's over by 160. Yes. [8:35] No reason. No, NO, it's not a legal reason. That's a legal reason. Legal reports of. They could be hearsay. It could be hearsay yep it could don't have any evidence, but there's NO, there's NO hearsay of illegal reports. There's nothing. The the call record is. [8:55] The exact same call record you're talking about and they went there because of this like that answer, but I did that clarify you said there would be data. There would be that you go to a roll call and there would be reasons why it would be on the CAD report. That is the data. You had been at that roll call five years ago, you would have heard the reason and the role call is print. [9:15] When the roll call is printed. I've received roll calls before. I have not received any for this. And I know i've never seen us in some rates a roll call would be data. Somebody would have a report. Just don't like the answer Sally and I feel bad that in this case. [9:35] For instance, like you said, there's break ins, there's data to back up why we're there. There were break ins. So yes, you drive into the area, there were reports and then there were in and then same, and then to put someone's name in it, there were reports of breakings in that mr. Mayor if there's been any change to policy that we don't. [9:55] Output 1st and last name of anybody in them anymore. Maybe that's been done. I don't know. Do you do if they're actually doing something illegal. Sally we're at time. Okay. And I, and I want to say again Sally, your initial question was asked. [10:08] When it was answered that the police do not recall the specifics to details. They don't recall that. Your 2nd question, do we support, will we have an internal investigation? Unless I get an overwhelming response from the, the council here, I do not believe this merits an internal investigation. And I will look to the council now. Does anyone believe this merit's an internal investigation? [10:27] I think this is a misunderstanding. So, your two questions have been asked and they've been answered. Thank you. Andy should understand it quite well. [10:42] Guess why we sign in or yeah. I got it. It's cold. Yes? [11:00] All right. So I wanted to talk a little bit about a thing that I brought actually to the police chief and something a little more positive maybe not a police, but I put an email forth to the principal of Kennedy High School and to chief Hodges about. [11:17] Unsafe conditions that exist in the crosswalk at Kennedy High School, 98th in nickeland. I dropped my daughter off there like once a week, but what's happened is you've got kids crossing the street from holiday and burger King coming across, obviously not using the crosswalk, pretty much J walking. And you've got basically parents. [11:37] Dropping off their kids. [11:39] The middle of Nicolad Avenue. I'm talking just open doors with flowing traffic, you know, kind of either way. So last week I observed good old police up there on the median, right? Watching things. So I just wanted to say a thank you to the police in that regard, you know, cause I think you guys know that these have kind of become in Hollambeck over there the. [11:59] Principle did put an ever up. [12:01] Talk to all the students said to don't don't do the J walking, right? But I think you guys kind of know around these crosswalks. It's kind of, it's kind of crazy how much traffic when you take a two lane move one lane, it gets kind of, it gets hectic and and the parents, you could probably email them all day long and unless there's enforcement from traffic, you know, kind of. [12:21] Those are getting more dangerous as you guys know around these intersections at the school. So, but it looks like we've got some police there, so I just want to say thanks to the chief for actually following up and putting some police, some law enforcement in place, you know, on that matter. So some safety in the community I guess, you know, on that. And I will say Andy and you saw you saw the. [12:41] The cohens out there all fall, and that was to have the crossing, the th the safety island in the middle of the crossing, so right trying our best and trying to do different things to try and there's another intersection I wanted to mention that's. [12:53] 86th and twelve, right? And they took a stoplight out there, right? And there's a four way in there, and I don't know if they're gonna turn that into a a roundabout at some point, but I see people blowing through that intersection, even though you've got the bright flags on the, on the corner there, that intersection, that's gonna become a dangerous. [13:13] I think there's been some accidents over there, so I don't know if you guys are aware, but 86 and twelve. [13:18] Is kind of a victor. You know what I'm talking about or NO? Traffic's kind of a little bit of what's that Jamie or traffic division's aware of it? Yeah, they I think they know, but yeah, they pulled out a full stop line, so I don't know if a, you know, roundabout in there or I imagine it'll be a redesign at some point, you know, kind of like a lot of communities are moving that to that. [13:36] Kind of roundabout kind of kind of model. So the other thing I wanted to bring forward, I wanted to ask mr. Virgrougie, are you guys still using high performance organization or was there like a little curfuffle inside the city that we haven't used that training for a couple of years. Is there a reason that you guys pull that out away from. [13:56] So you just didn't like it anymore or what, what happened to it exactly? We decided not to use it anymore. Okay, so it's just not not being utilized. Are you using another model to kind of organize at this time or? Okay ok because I was kind of paying to yeah go ahead, oh yeah so but we. [14:15] I know it's not specific to the employee level, but we do have something on the agenda tonight in terms of, our budgeting process and things like that and how we look at performance on that Mr., it's not like, it's not like. [14:30] I don't think the city managers want that, whatever. No. So it's mr. Mayoron council members different things. The priority based budgeting was a different thing what mr. Stewell was talking about. Yeah. The high performance organization model was the staff development and organizational change model that we were using for a number of years. [14:50] And, we, we moved away from it a couple years ago, like I said, so a lot of the principles are still in place, but we're not actively training staff. We're not using that model anymore. You guys pull that away or whatnot. So I was gonna mention too as as here to Sally I know she's been speaking at a number of meetings, but I know actually I have some friends that are actually personal police officers usual. [15:10] They keep pretty good detail on notes as far as surveillance, so. [15:14] Could I be could surveillance be launched on me without me knowing it's NO surveillance going on. Surveillance occurs in the course of an investigation. Okay. Gotcha. There's not surveillance going on. So it's just kind of like coming in the neighborhood, driving in the neighborhood of the Dara ferrude happens sometimes is that ju. [15:34] During roll call. [15:36] The sergeants will request directive patrol in a given area, right? And that's what was the case in, in the circumstance. During that roll calls that a lot of times does that just communicated to the the people that are in that on that kind of it's verbally done. Yeah. So. [15:56] Just Watch it yourself pretty much yes, if I show it up and say, hey, watch this, watch this, it's kind of a communications thing that wouldn't show up in a data request. I think if you want to correct contacted the police department and requested to do a ride along right invite you to come to yeah oh yeah so you can't just walk off the street and attend roll. No, NO NO. [16:16] But I hope my name. I had a waiver to go on and begin with him. I've got a friend that works at bennataka. He's a police officer, but it's it's definitely eye opening when you do some ride alongs, you know, kind of see what goes on. You know, behind the scenes, so that's if i may also. [16:34] Police, actually patrols hybrid patrols, anybody on a cruiser practices running plates automatically. They don't have to have a reason. They just a current event happens to be there around the plate just to, and and to be honest, a lot of the big rests that they have had is people that have. [16:54] Warrants for a long period of time, that's how they have been busted. So it's normal for police to do that. They don't do it to to bother you, but once somebody pulls an officer pulls behind you, they're running your plate and you know that automatically it's quick. [17:09] They move on if you don't have any problems, they move on to the next one. As they drive down the street, it's being read automatically. And if they get a hit a light flashes. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, they they scan the plates automatically. As they're driving, they're auto scanning you know which is called Outpers. Yep. So surveillance but. [17:29] Back to the the the deal, you know, like so basically like the police. [17:33] On their shift, they might talk verbally amongst each other and say, hey, we've got to keep an eye on this neighborhood, you know, or whatever type deal like that. There's not really so there's NO NO NO real, doesn't really have to be a report if if a follow up on that is what you're, what you're saying, so yeah NO. [17:53] Anyway, I said traffic enforcement at Kennedy I think the the kids know not to, I said there's just dangerous over there, so I just wanted to bring that to the council's attention. So, yeah. And, you know, and it goes in cycles cause we we had the conversation about six months ago about. [18:07] Speeding in front of Jefferson high school. It's. Darnest thing you give kids driver's license and give them a car. I'm dangerous. Yep. I teach these 60 to 18 year olds so I kind of get it's they're crazy drivers, right? And some of these 16 eight, they're they're they're they're draft other brothers and sisters off at school, you know, so it's like. [18:26] But I I made a, I don't know if you guys know this, but at Olson middle, you know, there's a, they put that turn lane in there and I put a pretty good letter for it about that because they had some bad accidents over there too, but they actually put a turn lane in so that I think that's helped out a little bit. It is, still gets crazy over there. They also have now the. [18:43] The beacons. The beacons and the the school zone and everything. We're working as hard as we can, as fast as we can In all those areas on purpose. And I think my favorite schools. Could you go 30 and then you go to my phone and then go 30. There's a gap in between schools Kirk, NO NO NO. He, he answer. [19:03] Did it very well. That's what you mean and the different timing of the school. Oh, gotcha. That makes sense? Is this 25, you know, the speed limit? I know you guys have dropped the speed limit, right? But I'm I'm driving, I were driving in Bloomington a lot, you know, the kids and sports and all that, but it seems like nobody's really slowed down, you know, they're still at 35. [19:21] I disagree with that and I've talked to folks I mean anecdotally, I mean I don't know, is it going down a little bit or you guys me like people are slowing down. Okay. And and I I've heard that from other people as well and I I talked to Kirk Roberts about it and who drives and bicycles a lot, so he especially is attuned to it. And he also has the sense that. [19:41] You know, without data to back it up, but just anecdotally and and by feeling that people are slowing down, good, good. But especially around schools, I said it seems like after COVID and you're seeing more and more people drive to the schools, so there's a, there's an increased amount of pressure, you know, kind of coming into the. [19:57] And at the schools in general. I on the community a lot and just anecdotal, of course, but I always peg myself right on top of the speed limit and there are not people blowing past. That's good. It's really steady. I haven't been past on a hundred and 6th in the middle lane. [20:15] Since we did it, so that's good, right? Thank you. Very quickly. How are the carts from the Oh, there's a couple they're getting better. Carts are getting looks like they're they're on top of that. They're getting better. I mean, I still see a couple, you know, the cart patrol is. [20:35] Whatever you guys are doing, maybe they're picking them up more or maybe they're I like you brought that up. I thought you brought it up and we thought about carts. No, see, if you forgot about it, we're doing something right. There must be something because I live over in that side of town. And there are like a legitimate issue. There are fewer. [20:55] I'll say you know because I I see a few here there, but not Okay because we have a rotation on the council that we all have to sit out there and get those cards. You guys are so we I just want to add that. You guys are pushing the cards? It's Victor's. Thank you, Andy, thanks for stopping by this evening. Appreciate it. Council member. [21:14] Thank you. I had a red contact me. This is totally on me that wasn't able to coordinate with her to be here tonight. It was about her property taxes. We're gonna talk about that more, but she wanted to bring forth the message. She owns a modest townhome. [21:30] And her property taxes went up 28 % this year. I think is a situation that we've all been talking about for a long time that our most affordable houses are getting impacted by increases in valuation. I will connect her with mr. Balger to go through that with her. She was also frustrated. [21:50] By the thing that I think we're all frustrated by that you get your tax assessment in the spring, and then you find out what that means in the fall and I told her you can't do anything until next spring. She did not like that answer. I don't like that answer. I totally agree with her, but that that's the situation, and so I know. [22:10] Because of my own fault as she wasn't able to connect with us this evening, and so I just want to bring that forward her concerns and questions on that. I'll work with you Jamie to to get her connected to go Hopefully you reminded her that that timing sequence is state law that's not the city that determines that, so oh my bad. I told her as a city manager. [22:30] I told her to stay. I also told her that it is something that we continually talk about. I told that because of some of our former colleagues that were working on those issues in terms of the home set tax credit, the propert. [22:50] Needs actually leave that automatically goes out to people without application and explained how that that's all working, but that that. [22:59] Timing glitch is still a weird one and when we talk about legislative stuff, I would love to see a way that people could at least see what that's gonna look like for them because I mean, I see, I mean I'm on Facebook I see people that are, their property taxes are going down and then I, I talked to her and they're going up 28 %. [23:19] Times I'm like. [23:20] I know what our lovy is and and that and then but it's not just that, so you're right. One comment on that, just my my personal opinion is that if we could pick a legislative option that we could advocate for, I I don't understand how, why the. [23:40] The taxable amount of your property can't be indexed. I don't understand it. The the volatility in the market right now should not be a reason that we all pay what we pay and there's It could get capped, it could get capped. It never not to increase 15 % or not to increase 10 % of your valuation. It could be done from a. [24:01] Tax perspective and not have impact and I don't know why cities don't advocate more for that. If it was up to me, if I was King for a day, I would be asking for that. I think that is actually currently if it goes over a 10 %. [24:14] Then the there's an additional property tax payment from the state if you qualify but at a, at a certain point you don't qualify. I thought it was I thought that was income independent. I think it's kind of a circuit breaker that if you have an amount that's higher, I think you're right. I'll talk to Tim and see what. [24:34] I think that it has to beligious like 50 %. No, NO NO. It's, like taxes. I don't think so. I don't say what had happened to this lady and it didn't happen to this lady, he said tell me why? That's what I'm trying to say like No, NO, because it's a separate thing. The tax goes up, but you have to apply for the property. And That's something you have to do. You should just. [24:54] Call Nathan, that's what he's working on. I'm asking us to call Nathan as a body. We get him on the phone? [25:01] Usually we wait for this call. I don't think it should be. I would entertain a motion to adjourn. We have a motion and a 2nd to adjourn all in favor. We downstairs. Thank you. [25:21] So I just thinking. Give. [25:41] Then we don't waste the money.