"WELCOME TO THE FEBRUARY 15TH 2024 Meeting Of The Bloomington Planning Commission. The Planning Commission Is Made Up Of Seven Volunteer Living Residents Appointed By The Cy Council. Tonight We Have Six Which Is A Quorum. The Commission Advises The City Council On Development Proposals Developments, Standards, Long Range Planning And Transportation Issues. Our Work Is Informed By The City'S Comprehensive Plan Various District Plans And The City Code For Some Items The Commission Makes A Recommendation With The City Council Having The Final Decision Making. There Is One Item Of That Type Tonight. In Other Cases The Planning Commission Can Approve Or Deny An Application Subject An Appeal To The City Council For Each Action Item There Will Be Staff Report An Opportunity For The Applicant To Present Then Time For Any Member Of The Public To Provide Testimony. Our First Order Of Business Tonight Is The Pledge Of Allegiance. Please As You Are Able I Pledge Allegiance To The Flag Of The United States Of America And To Public Order Which Stands One Nation Under God, Indivisible, With Liberty ,Justice For All. All Right. As I Mentioned Tonight We Have One Public Hearing And Three Study Items. The First Item Is There Is A Request For Amendments To The Housing Ordinance And Housing Development Specialist Niemeyer Has The Presentation . Thank Chair Commissioners. Good Evening. I Apologize I Am Six I Am Going To Stay Master For One Safety And I Do Apologize If I Have Any Coughing Fits But I'M Very Happy To Be In Front Of You Again Tonight. This Is An Item Relating To Proposed Amendments To The Opportunity Housing Ordinance And This Is A This Is A Returning Item You Considered Back In January With The Study Session For These Changes So Um Tonight We'Re Going To Go Through The Kind Of The Timeline Of How We Got To Here Tonight And Then I'Ll Talk Through Some Of The Major That Have Happened Since Our Discussion In January. So Just To Remind You Where This Item Has Been In January We Had Study Sessions With The Port Authority, The Planning Commission Here And The Hra And We Were Able To Take Feedback From Each Of Those Meetings And Then Take A Look Again At The Proposed Changes And Then We Also Got Some Directives From The Bodies To Get Further Information From The Development Community Community As Well As Some Of Our Takeaways With Affordable Developments That Have Operated With This Over The Whole In Place. So With That Feedback Gathered We Made Some Revisions. We'Re Bringing It Back To Body Now In February The Item Was Brought To The Hra On Tuesday Of This Week And They Approved The Item Tonight We'Ll Be Considering It And Then Port Authority Will Consider The Item Next Tuesday And The Intention To Bring The Item For Final Approval By City Council In March. So I, I Just Wanted To Give A High Level Summary Of Some Of The Feedback Was Received From The Three Commissions And That Um And That You'Ll See That Informed Some Of The Revisions So In Terms Of Feedback That We Got The Port Authority, Um They They Shared That They Wanted To Emphasize The Enforceability Of Any Sort Of Requirements That Were Imposing Through This Ordinance. So Thinking Specifically Of For Example The In Unit Amenity Um Requirement To Have In Unit Amenities Proportional Proportionally Accessible Between The Opportunity Housing Units And The Market Rate Units. So In Talking With Department Staff Within The City Of Bloomington Understanding That We Are Able To To Look Compliance On That Requirement When Developers Come In For Their Site For Their Building Plan Submission We Can Look To See Which Units Are Getting These In Unit Amenities. So Think Specifically Balconies And Then We Can Work With The Property Manager Going Forward To Ensure The Opportunity Housing Units In That Building Are Getting A Proportional Access To Those Amenities So We Also Talked With The Planning Commission With You On The Parking Reduction Incentive And We Wanted To Get Clarity On The Discretionary Item For City The City Engineer Or Designee To Require A Parking Study For Developers If They Were To Seek A Higher Parking Reduction Through The Lho And So We Took A Look At That Um We Got Feedback From You As Well That Certain Amendments Would Be Best Suited To Move Along Side Related Items With The Planning Divisions 2024 Work Items To Move Along. We Also Got Feedback To Get Further On The Storage Space Reduction Incentive And We Got Feedback From All The Bodies Just In Appreciation That. The Opportunity Housing Ordinance Is To Be Treated As A Living Document That The Intention Is To Bring It Before The Bodies So You Have This Chance To Review The Document The Ordinances Meant To Be Responsive To Changes In The Market In , The Development Community As Well As What The Goals Of The City And The Boards Are. So That Message Was Well Received So I Will Just Talk Through The Three Major Revisions That We Made Since Those Those Three Study Sessions Last Month. And Then I'Ll Also Say When We Get To Questions Or Any Any More Engagement That Anything That You Saw In Ordinance Now That You'Ve Seen It As Written I'M Happy To Discuss That In Terms Of Major Revisions I'Ll First Talk About The Section 9.16.04 And That'S The Impervious Surface Area Maintenance. So As Proposed We Brought This To You. This Would Have Been Retooled To Serve As An Incentive To Office Conversion Projects And The Feedback Was That This Item Is Best Moved Alongside The Planning Divisions Office Two Residential Conversion Item For 2024. So The Revision Is Simply Remove The Incentive From The Original And Then Reconsider This Retooling Of The Incentive Later In 2024 And Just To To Provide The Background On Removing This Incentive This Was In Reaction To Engagement With The City Council In 2023 In The Annual Opportunity Housing Ordinance Report To The City Council. So Some Of The Engagement On That Was We Wanted To Ensure That The Hall Isn'T Working And Isn'T Working Against The Environmental Sustainability Of The City. So With Regards To This Incentive There Concern That We Would Be Allowing For An Increased Impervious Surface Area Um If Developers Were To Provide Additional Affordable Housing So They'Re In That Case Their Goals Working Against Each Other So The The Revision Is Simply To Remove This Incentive And Then Reconsider. The Other Major Vision Is To Section .19 Parking Reduction. So The Feedback Was To Get More Clarity And Ensure That Developers Are Understanding When This Discretion Kicks In When It Becomes Applicable And Understand That The Requirement Is Response Of To The Level Of Reductions Received So Far By Developers So We Were Able To Look Back At Projects That Have Received This Incentive Through The Of The Parking Reduction Incentive And Found That Across 13 Projects The Average Parking Reduction Was 28% And So The Revised Threshold For The City Engineer Or Designee To Require A Parking Study Was Adjusted From 10% To 30%. So Just So If This Were If This Had Been In Place Five Projects Out Of The 13 Would Have Been Subject Or Would Have Been Under The Discretion Of The City Engineer To Have A Parking Study Required. So This Revision Would Allow The Average Project To Require Or Request A Parking Reduction And Go Through Without Without The Discretion Of A Parking Study Coming Into Play. And Then Finally The Major There Was A Major Revision To Section .23 Of The Storage Space Reduction. So The Feedback For This Was To Look Into The The Relevance Of The Proposal Incentive To Our Existing Developments And Understand That Storage Space Usage Has Been And We Were Able To Talk With That With Members Of The Development Community The Housing Development Community And The Feedback Provided Was That For A Kind Of A Market Driven Project Developers Typically They Look To Provide External Storage Space To Around 10% Of The Dwelling Units In Their Developments. Um, So The Revision In This Case Was Change The Reduction To 90% So That Development Would Still Have To Provide External Storage Space To 10% Of The Dwelling Units In The Building And Then The Other Feedback That We Received From The Development Community Was This Incentive Wouldn'T Move The Needle In Terms Of Benefiting The Project Financially To Provide What What We Had Originally Proposed Was 20% Of The Units At 30% Ami So What We'Ve What We'Ve Revised It To To Be Is If 10% Of Units Are Provided At 30% Ami Then That Reduction Can Be 90% And The Reasoning For 10% Is Looking Back Across Recent Developments That Did Include A 30% Emi Units It Was Typically Between And 8% Of The Total Dwelling Units In Those Developments That Were 30% Units. So Our Intention Here Is To Provide A Kind Of An Extra Push That If Developer Were To Have Just One Or Two More Units In The Development Then They May Become Eligible For This Incentive The 10% Of Total Units So Those Are The Three Major Revisions And As I Mentioned Hra We We Gave This Presentation To Adra On Tuesday And They Approved So Staffan Hra Recommending Approval Tonight To Bring The Amendments To City Council In March And With That I'Ll Take Any Questions. Thank You. Questions Staff Commissioner Albert Thank You Chair Mr. Niemeyer My Question Is Related To The Storage Requirement Or The Storage Incentive I Should Say When You Went Back To The Developers Who Had Implemented 30% Army Units. Did They Were They Agreeable To The 10%? Did They Figure That That Would Pencil Out? Are There Still Additional Barriers There? Sharon Commissioners I Would There Is Still There'S Certainly Are Barriers And Those Tend To Be Financial So This I Think The Intent Would Be This Is Pushing Them To Provide That One Or Two Extra Units To Become Eligible For This Incentive. But The Bottom Line Is These Will Likely Need Financial Subsidy. So We Would Looking To The Affordable Housing Trust Fund Or Potentially Tax Increment Financing Or Local State Or Federal Funding To Make These Projects Pencil Out. So This Is We'Re Hoping Just Kind Of Pushes These Developers To Provide Just One Or Two Extra Units At This Level If I May. Thank You, Chair Mr. Niemeyer Then My Second Question Has To Do With Excuse Me The Parking Requirement And The Review Of From Staff Moving From A Tent At From 10% To 30% Reduction. What If We Were To Look The Number Of Projects You Said That There Were Five Remaining That Would Have Triggered The Parking Study. What Number Would That Have To Be In Order For Us To Have It Be Zero? Thank You Chair And Commissioners So As Currently Written The Max Parking Reduction That A Developer Can Seek Is 45% And That'S If They'Re In A Certain Transportation Tier They Have Access To Ample Public Transit . They Could Then Seek That Max Amount. I Don'T Believe Any Projects Have Received 45 However There Have Been Projects That Receive 40%. So For This Discretion Threshold To Not Apply To Any Projects It Would Have To Be At The 40 Be 41% Essentially Or 45% Perhaps And In That Case It Would Have Not Applied To Any Of The Last 13 Projects. Thank You. Other Questions For Staff Commissioner Cookson Thank You Mr. Chair. Mr. Niemeyer Stick With The Parking Reduction. So The 30% Threshold Here So Does That Automatically Trigger A Parking Study Or Is There Still Discretion City Staff Of Whether There Should Be A Parking Study? Tram Commissioners? This Would Just Be A Discretion So It Would Allow For The Requirement But It Wouldn'T. It'S Not A Given That Developer Would Be Subject To A Parking Study. Okay. Is Inverse True That Under 30% We Cannot Require A Parking Chair And Commissioners Are I Don'T I Don'T Think That That Would Be The Case. I Think If There Were Extenuating Circumstances The City Would Still Have That Discretion. But This Is To Provide Clarity In A Situation Where Our Ordinances Is Kind Of Giving A Parking Reduction That Is What Is Already Already Granted Under Zoning Code . So I Suppose I Could Envision A Scenario Where Under Existing Zoning A Parcel Doesn'T Have Ample Parking Opportunities Even Without Considering An Incentive Through The Lho. In That It May Be The City'S Preference To Require A Parking Study Regardless. Okay, I Have One More Question Mr. Chair, If We Could Go Back To The Storage Reduction Is And I Don'T A Long Answer Here Is This The Only Incentive We Have To Get More 30% Army Units Or Are There Other Incentives That We'Re Not Discussing Specifically Here To Target 30% Am I Tran Commissioners There Are Other 30% Am I Incentives Within The Oh There'S One Other That Is In The Proposed Amendments Evening Which Is The Expedited Review Of Plans Incentive And That Was Discussed Last In The Study. So That'S What Is Considered Tonight. There Are Other There Are Other Incentives At That 30% Level Existing. Okay. So To That A Part Of This Application But There Are Others That Are Already In The Show To Incentivize 30% Anyway . Yes, Very Well. Thank You. Other Questions Staff Thank You. Well Done. This Item A Public Hearing So I Will Open The Public Hearing For Those Online You Should See Information About A Call In Number And An Access Code That'S Been Scrolling Throughout The Presentation So The Public Hearing Is Open. I'M Seeing Nobody In The Chambers And Nobody Online. Maybe We'Ll Give It Another Couple Of Seconds Just In Case Someone Was Moved By The Refresher On The Phone Number . Seeing That I Would Entertain A Motion To Close The Public Hearing Motion To Close The Public Hearing The Second Wave Of Motion In A Second To Close The Public Hearing Discussion . All Those In Favor Say I I Oppose Public Hearing Closed Discussion On This Item Commission Object Thank You Chair And I Apologize Losing My Voice A Little Bit But I Will Be I Can Make It Through My Here I Appreciate The Updated Recommendations Here In The Changes To The Opportunity Housing My Gut Reaction Here About 30% Ami Units Is Are We Doing Enough To Really Incentivize Those Units Given The Numbers I Believe It Was Like The 420 Range Of What We Need To Build Because What We Have Done Within The Last Couple Of Years Is In The Teens Range . And So I Would Just Urge Staff And City Council To Really Discuss What What We Can Do To Build These Units If We Really Truly Want Them In Our Community. I Don'T Think The Storage Reduction And Necessarily Even The The Incentives As Is Is Enough To Get To That 30% That'S 30% Area Median Income Is Not A Lot Of Money In Terms Of How They Their Pro Forma And Continuing To Operate A Building It Seems Like It Would Be A Hindrance To Development. I Appreciate The Adjustment Of The Threshold I'M All My Preference Is That That Threshold Is A Little Higher But I I'M Okay With Tha I Appreciate That That Goes From 10 To 30 That Provides Additional Clarity On The Parking Study. But Overall I Think That The Changes Made Here Were Were Great And Were Reflected The Conversations That We Had In This Room And I Know The City Council Did As Well I Appreciate The Staff'S Work On This And I Will Be Supporting You But Echo Some Of The Comments That Commissioner Albrecht Made Around This Is I Think The Second Or The Third Set Of Amendments We'Ve Made To This Since We First Adopted It. That Was Our First Year Here. It'S Been A While And I Think To Commissioner I'Ve Explained It'S Been Highly Successful At The 60 And Even To A Certain Extent At The 50 And So What I'M Unclear About And I Don'T Know We Won'T Know For Sure I'M Not Sure That Anything We Do To The Ordinance Can Help Us Get To The 30 Which Is What We Heard From Staff That It'S About Money Not About Regulation And So I Appreciate We Continue To Tweak This And You Know There'S There'S Never Enough Housing At Any Of These Levels So You Know If We Continue To Get More 60 And 50 I Guess I'Ll Take That Again As A City We'Re Going To Have To And It'S Bigger Than The City Of Course It'S You Know Which Now Maybe With This New State Money That'S Coming From The Sales Tax That Went Into Place In October Maybe Some Of That Be Available To Help Us But I Think What We Heard And What You Were Getting At Is That, You Know, The Ordinance Itself Is Probably Not Meaningfully Going To Move That 30 But I Think This Is Good Work And I'M Supportive. Commissioner Gottesman Thank You Chair. I Think The The Big Thing That I Like About This Ordinance Again Is To We We'Ve Revisited It, We'Ve Revised It Which I Think Is Fantastic But I Also Want To Make Sure That We Continue The Equitable Being Equitable In The Units And I Love That We Are Are Making Sure That The Units Are Mixed Market Rate You Know In Multi Tiered Emi Because I Think Having A Home That Has All Of The Amenities Is A Right Not A Privilege And So I Love That This Ordinance Has That So I Would Echo Everything The Staff Says And Will Be Supporting As Well. Fisher Thank You Chair. I Don'T Mean To Echo Everything Else People Have Said But I Think The Thing I Would Agree With Is I'M Not Sure This Does Enough For The 30% Am I The To Provisions Included In This In This Proposal Here I Don'T Move The Needle That Much And I Hope If We'Ll Track That Which I Know We Are And In 12 Months If We Don'T Find It Doing Enough Then We'Ll Revisit It Again And Continue To Be Flexible Here. So In General I Too Am Supportive Of This And Hoping That This Works For More Than 30% Of My Units But If It Doesn'T I Look Forward To Seeing This Again And In 12 Months The Additional Discussion Or A Motion If Anyone Is So Moved. Kershaw Albrecht Thank You. Chair One Thing That I Meant To Mention I Didn'T Was That I Appreciate The Pivot On I Know We Were Given Ton Of Information The First Time Around In The Pivot To This More More Clarity I Do I'M Given That I Am Watching A Lot Of What'S Happening At The Legislature And I Do Think That There'S There Could There Will Potentially Be Adjustments Given What'S Happening At The Legislature As? Well, And So The Fact That We'Re We Can Have This Nimble Ordinance Where We Make Changes From Year To Year Is Really Important Given The The Ability For Things To Change At The State Level From Year To Year. So I Just Want To Mention That That That Is That'S Important And I Think It'S The Ability For Cities To Implement Ordinances Like This Is Really Important. So Thank You. I'M Happy To Make A Motion. Please In Case People 2024-7I Move To Recommend Approval Of The Ordinance Amendments As Attached In The Staff Report Related To Preservation And Development Of Affordable Housing Units Thereby Amending Chapter Nine Of The City Code . Second, Thank You. We Have A Motion And A Second To Recommend Amendments To The Opportunity Housing Ordinance. Any Further Discussion? All Those In Favor Say I. I Opposed The Motion. This Item Will Appear On The March 18Th City Council Agenda As A Public Hearing. It'S Item Number Two Is A Study Item On The 20 For Proactive Traffic Calming An Assistant Traffic Engineer Marone Is With Us To Share All Of The Exciting Details Using This Traffic Calming So Maybe They'Re Not Exciting The Chill Chill Right? Good Evening Commissioners. Happy To Be Here Tonight To Share Some Of The Traffic Calming Elements That Incorporating Into This Year'S Pmp And Other Projects. This Is A Follow Up To The November Six Planning Commission Discussion About The Upcoming Pmp Grade Requested Some Information About These Types Of Neighborhood Improvement Elements That We'Re Incorporating Into Our Work. So These Projects Are An Outcome Of Many Different Planning Efforts Including Our Proactive Traffic Calming Meetings. So We Had Seven Different Meetings This Year Out In The Neighborhoods We Hosted Them Near The Streets Where The Pmp Work Is Going To Take Place At The Neighborhood Parks. It'S Also Combination Of A Lot Of What We Heard And Planned In Our Active Transportation Action Plan. A Lot Of Feedback That We Received During The Park Master Planning Specifically The Track Board And Bryant Park Master Planning Meetings As Well As Our Proactive Safety Pedestrian Safety Planning That We Do And Our Application For An H Slip Which Is A Highway Safety Improvement Program Grant. And As As Well As Previous And Patterns Of Issues. So That'S Just Kind Of A Set Up On How We Select Our Projects As We As We Are Working Through. So The First One Is One That'S Been On My Radar A Long Time So We'Ve Done A Lot Of Work On Stanley And Nine Mile Which Is All Roadways Within Neighborhood That We Call The Poplar Bridge Area. So In Case You'Re Not Familiar With This Intersection Of Poplar Bridge Road Carroll Avenue, It Is Between France And Norman Dale And South Of 84Th Street. This One Intersection Is The Only Four Legged Intersection Within This Neighborhood There'S A Whole Lot Of But Only For Like An There'S A Whole Lot Of Intersections So When You'Re Dealing With Four Legged Uncontrolled Intersection, The Concerns That We Are Trying To Address Is Assigning Property Right Away To The To The Drivers At The As Intersection Control. A Little Bit Of A Sightline Issue That Would Not Be Addressed Just Adding Stop Signs Because The Legs That We Would Add Stop Signs Would Exacerbate That Sightline Issue As Well As A Speed Concern On Poplar Ridge Road Itself. So If We Just Add A Side Street Stop Control That Exasperates The The Speed Concern That'S Going On In That Neighborhood So Move Forward And In A Series Of Meetings With The Neighborhood And Have Traffic Traffic Circle Device Trial And So We Had Very Positive Results From That And We Are Recommending Moving Forward Or We Are Including Moving Forward With Permanent Construction Of The Traffic At That Intersection With This Year'S Poppy Project. So That Survey I Know You Probably Can'T Read It Completely. We Do An Opinion Survey Of The Neighborhoods So We'Re Not Asking The Residents To Vote On Traffic Circle But They'Re The Ones That Have Been Driving Through It. And So We Ask For Questions Always As A Follow Up On These Traffic Circle Trials, Do You Think There Was A Safety Concern At The Intersection Before The Circle More Than 50% Thought? Yes There Was. Do You Think That The Traffic Circle Made The Intersection Feel Safer Or More Dangerous? People Thought It Felt Safer. Did How Did It Affect Speeds, Reduce Speeds And Would You Support A Decision To Construct A Permanent Traffic Circle? And More Than 50% Did Say Yes, They Would Support That. So I Have Quite A Few To Go Through. If You Have Any Questions I Would Welcome Questions Of As We Go Through Each One Or At The End However You Prefer To Handle It. I Think As A Study Item We May As Well Be A Little Less Formal Commissioner Morone We'Ve Seen This Picture Before And Every Time I See It I'M Unclear As To That Sign That Except Busses. Can You Help Me Understand That? Commissioner Compton So A School Bus Actually Would Not Be Able To Traverse The Correct Way Through That Traffic Circle Without Considerably Over The Traffic Circle Which They Cannot Do In This Median There Will Be A Truck Apron In The Actual Construction So They May Be Able To Get Around It. What Their Advice To Do Especially With That Exception Is To Just Wait Until There Is No Traffic Through The Intersection And Then They Can Make The Left Turn By Simply Taking An Immediate Left Turn And Not Going Around The Circle. Thank You. Commissioner Holtzman, Thank You Chair. So Just A General Question I Have With In The Subsequent Slides Is When This Is Involved With A Pmp, I Know Traffic Circles Take Up A Lot Of Space. What Is The Land Usage As Well As Acquiring Of The Land To Create The Traffic Circle And Maybe It'S Different Per Application But That Would Be Interesting To See. Commissioner Boltzmann That'S A Great Question. So These Are Actually Neighborhood Traffic Circles And They Don'T Have That Large Of A Diameter So I Probably Will Get My Numbers Wrong But I Think It'S Like 16 Foot Diameter And Sort Of A Roundabout Which Has A Very Significant Imprint. This Fits Well Within The Existing Curve Lines On All Of The Approaches So No Curve Modifications Needed. The Only Thing That We Are Including With The Project Is Their Sidewalk Crossing East West On The North Side And What We Found That Those Pedestrians Are Crossing Relatively Close To The Traveling To The Drivers And So With This Project We Will Be The Best Way To It Like Wrapping The Sidewalk To The North Just A Little Bit And Having That Crossing Be Out Of The Circular Movement Of The Vehicles So There'S No Right Of Way Acquisition Needed For This. Cheryl Burke Thank You Chair. Does This Allow For More Greenery Or Less Impervious Surface With The Traffic Circle? Commissioner Albrecht What We'Ve Done Typically In The Past Is Just Low Low Water, Low Growth Plantings In The Center. So To Your Question A Little Bit Great. Thank You. Anything Else On This One? All Right. All Right. Moving On. So Bryant Park Neighborhood So The Throughout The Park Masterplan Process There Were Several Meetings And Whenever You'Re Working On An Area It Can Never Be Just Confined To The Park. It Is All About Access To The Park. In Addition To The Park Itself. And So We Quickly Got Involved And Helped To Make Sure That Our Road Project In This Area Aligned With The Timing Of The The Park Project Itself A Few Of The Things That We That We Heard Continually Were About Improved Pedestrian Access To The Park And So We'Ll Talk About The New Sidewalk That'S Going In Around The Park During This Process As Well As Through The Active Transportation Planning Process. We Heard Concerns From Many Other Neighbors In This Area About Vehicles That Are Passing Through The Neighborhood Relatively Fast On Of The Streets That Go All The Way From 86Th Street To 82Nd Street. And While It Didn'T Come Up Show Up As Systemic Problem When We Checked It With Counts And Data, We Did See That There Are Some Speed Concerns There That Play Out. So In Addition To The Park Project Itself, We'Re Going To Be Adding Sidewalks All Around Right Away Sidewalks Around The Perimeter Of The Park As Well As Connections To Down To 86Th Street Along Bryant Park And Emerson. And Then We'Re Adding Crosswalk Enhancements Across 86Th Street At Both And Bryant And Then We'Re Also Doing Curb Outs At Several Locations On These Local Neighborhood Streets. The Function Or The Goal Of The Curb Bump Outs Is To Give Some Narrowing To The Roadway And Also To Improve The Of Where Pedestrians Would Be Exiting Or Entering The Park And Entering Onto The Public Roadway Since There Are Not Sidewalks On All Of These Residential Streets Here. We Really Want To Make Sure That We'Re Getting The Visibility Of The Pedestrian Quite Apparent Where They'Re Going To Be Entering Roadway. So Here'S A Few We Don'T Have A Lot Of Pretty Pictures On What This Looks Like But These Are Some Shots The Plans Of What The Curb Bump Outs Look Like At The Intersection And And At Some Other Locations And Then The Crossings Themselves On 86Th Street Will Include A Pedestrian Refuge Island So That The Pedestrians Will Only Be Crossing One Lane Going The Pedestrian Refuge Island And Then Crossing Another Single Lane Of Traffic. That Alone Is A Significant Pedestrian Safety Improvement Was To Tweaking The Overhead Street Lighting At Those Crossing Locations As Well And Adding Signing And Striping . Questions On Bryant Are Scheduled. Oh I Was Just Giving A Thumbs Up At An 86Th Street Work Adding The Refuge Islands. How Do Those Those Are Mid-Block Crossing? How Do They Intersect With The Turn Lane Which Is Constant On 86Th? Correct. So Actually Will Be Obstructing The Turn Lane. So We'Re At The Locations Where They Make The The Pedestrian Connection But Also Are Impeding Or Block Blocking The Fewest Left Turn Movements And So The Turning Movement For Westbound 86 Two Southbound Is The Lowest And On These Those Moves Are The Lowest At These Intersections That'S Where The Pedestrian Refuge Islands Will Be Placed So Left Will Be Allowed From The Through Lane At Those Locations Either Or A Driver Could You Know Enter Into The The Actual Intersection Space Itself So They Won'T Be Assigned No Left Turn Or Anything Correct. We'Re Not Going To Be Restricting The Left Turns Anything Else This One Looks Good All So West Burlington Freeway This Is The Section Between 100Th Street And 102Nd Street West Bloomington Freeway Has All Different Kinds Of What'S A Roadway Through There. But One Thing That We Do Have Is This Section Has No Sidewalk And It Also Has A Ditch So There'S No Storm Sewer. So We Need That Area For Water Retention. So There So We Did Look At You Know, Are There Any Options To Actually Add Offroad Sidewalk It'S Going To It Would Be Very Difficult This Location And So The Alternate Plan That We Came Up With Is To Add More Of An On Road Pedestrian Way So This Is A Little Bit Of A New Cross Section That We'Re Giving A Try The Volumes. So We Also Looked At Does This Road Even Need To Be Here? It Does Need To Be Here. It Does It Has Relatively Low Volumes But Provides Important Connectivity Throughout That Area. So The Existing Roadway Breadth Is Not In My Notes. Okay. So It'S A I Think It Is 28 Feet And So We'Re Planning To Put Back In 28 Feet Of Curb To Curb Width. So This Will Be A New Through This Section. What'S Unique Is That We'Re Designating 20 Feet As A Vehicle Space, A Two Foot Painted Buffer And, Then A Six Foot On Road Pedestrian Way. So The Graphic We Show Bike Symbols And We Have Not Quite Worked Out Yet If We'Re Going To Allow Bikes In That Pedestrian Way Or Not Because It Is For Two Way Pedestrian Traffic And Honestly Our Graphics Are Graphic Tools Don'T Even Have The Bike Symbol Available. So That'S Why This Is A Little Bit Of A Trying To Give You An Idea But It Is Intended To Be A Pedestrian Space Will Use That Pedestrians On The Roadway Signage It'S A Narrower Road Vehicle Cross Section So We'Ll Likely Use That Two Way Traffic Just As A Yet Another Indicator The Drivers That They'Re In A Little Bit Of A Different Condition And It Crashes On This One First Of All. Yes, Just Repaving That Road Will Be An Improvement. It May Be The Worst Road The City. Have We Given Any Thought To The Valley I Know There'S Maintenance Issues That Come With This But To Bring Any Sort Of The Flexible Bollards It I'M Thinking About That Pedestrian Facility In The Winter When Lions Are Not As Clear And Again I Know That Raises Different Maintenance Questions But We Thought About Trying That So Conditioner To Be Honest We'Ve Considered Using Those Intermittently We Have A Similar Cross Section On Lyndale Avenue South Which We Didn'T Include In The Presentation Tonight Because You'Ve Seen It A Couple Times And There We'Re Thinking About Using Those Bollards. It Would Just Be In The Summer. So Part Of The Value Of Having Facility On The Roadway Is We Can Clear It With The Park Plaza. You Know It'S Going To Be Maintained To The Same Level Of Roadway. I Think It Will Be Difficult To Do Those Temporary Bollards In The Winter But This Has Been Really Different So I Can I Can Make A Note For Us. We Would Definitely Use That As A Tool If We Have Issues And Concerns. I'M Just Thinking You Know There Is A Sidewalk That Is With Different Equipment Both North And South Of That. So You'Re Right It Is Easier To Do It With The Street Equipment But They'Re Traveling That Round An Area. I Like What You'Re Trying To Do There. It'S A Creative Solution. I Just Want To Make Sure That We Do Encourage People To Be There That It'S Safe All Year . Great Planning. Thank You, Michelle Brooklyn Thanks Chair Ms.. Maroon, You We Need The Ditch On What I Believe Is The West Side There For Drainage Was There Consideration Of Like An A Pervious Surface, A Pervious Concrete Or A Pervious Asphalt ? No, I Don'T There Wasn'T I'M A Supporter Of Pervious Concrete And So I Would I Would Open That Up To Consideration Would Assume That Yeah Yeah I Would Assume That Would Require A Full Rebuild In This Situation Which. This Is Not A Full Rebuild Correct. This I Believe Is A Reconstruction. So It Is Getting New Curb And You Go Questioner Ac They'Re Optimistic. Yeah, I'M Trying To Think Here Is There Any Existing Roadways In The City Similar To This Where A Pedestrian Walk Or Pedestrian Lane Is On The Road? Traffic Commissioner There Is Not Currently Any This Is Kind Of Something New That We'Re Giving A Try. We Will Have Somewhat Similar That We'Re Constructing On Lyndale Avenue But There'S Nothing In Place Right Now. Okay, Yeah That Makes Sense. I Was Trying To Recall In My Signing City But I Think You Okay? All Right Harrison Road I Bring This One I'M Not That We Are Constructing Sidewalk At This Time But Something That We Did Hear Quite A Bit At Our Again At Our Poplar Bridge Neighborhood Open House Is That There Is No Sidewalk Along Harrison Road And It Runs All Along Screw Back And Park It Is With In The Walking Boundary Poplar Bridge Elementary School And It'S Also Just A Very Popular Walking Route For The Neighborhood Because It Runs Along The Park The Entire Way We Did It We Did Some Survey And Took A Look. There'S Not An Easy Way To Add Sidewalk And Sidewalks Never Easy But If It Was If It Was Buildable Without Impacting The Wetland Or Having Significant Modifications At This Time We Would We Would Have Tried To Incorporate It Into This Project. Now We Are Going To Just Work On Having Would It Take To Build This In The Future And Just Kind Of Added Into Our Are Known Sidewalk Deficiencies And Continue To Prioritize That Construction For In The Future Good Idea Right Right So West 78Th Street And Yes This Is In Bloomington So It Is West Of Normandy L Boulevard There'S Between Normandy Boulevard And East Push Lake Road Starting Right About Here Is Where The Bloomington Section Starts. This Is A Four Lane Undivided Roadway With Relatively Low Traffic Volumes Definitely Weren'T Or Definitely Not Needing Four Lanes For Traffic And On The Section Of 78Th Street Also Has Some Pretty Some Pretty Significant Sidewalk Gaps You Can Kind Of See The Map There If In My Own Computer And I Can'T Get It To Advance Okay So What We'Re Proposing Is For The North South Section Of Armadale Boulevard To Convert That To A Two Lane With Bikeable Shoulders There Will Be About 500 Feet Of A Diner Roadway Is Currently Striped As A Four Lane And Then It Goes Into What Would Essentially Be A Two Lane With Turn Lanes As You'Re Approaching The Signal. And So We Started Communications With Edina To See If There'S Interest In A Simple Lane Conversion On Their End Or. If We Incorporate A Lane Merge On Ours And On The East West Portion Of West 78Th Street We Are Going To Do A Three Lane Cross Section So We'Ll Still Continue The Bike Bike Lanes But There Are Quite A Few More Driveways And Intersections On That Section As It Gets To The Intersection Of East Bush Lake Road We Will Merge Back, We Will Open It Back Up To The Existing Lane Cross Section. We Are Very Hopeful That In The Near Future The Cp Rail Regional Trail Will Be Funded And That Will Follow The East Along The East Side Of East Push Lake Road Through Intersection And We Anticipate At That Time There Will Be Some Pretty Significant Intersection Modifications At That Signal And Then We Can Get It All Together Very Nicely. We'Re Also Filling In The Sidewalk Gaps In This Area With This Project Chicago To Member Is This A Rebuild Or Is This Just Like A Mill, An Overlay Or Something? I Believe This One'S Just A Mill. An Overlay Just I'M Sorry I Was Just Going To Say It Feels Like A Lot Of Road For What'S Going On Out There. So Yeah, Eventually Maybe It Gets Narrower But If It'S Just An Overlay I Guess We'Ll Just Make What We Have Which I Got. Thank You. I'Ve Ridden My Bike In This Area Right Off Of Bush Lake And I'M Excited To See More Striping For For As I Was Making My Way Up To The Regional Trail So I Think This Is Good But I Agree It Seems Very Wide For How Much Traffic Is Actually Going Through There But The Striping Is Great. Thank You Commissioner Goldman. You Will Love And Keep Here Our Regional Trail Finally Does Make The Connection Because It Will Be Great Draw Connect To The Nine Mile Creek Regional Trail Right Okay 92Nd Street. So This Is Between East Bloomington Freeway And Bryant Avenue Or Maybe Over To Aldridge I Don'T Remember Recall The Limits Exactly When We Met With This We Did Hear Quite A Few People Concerned With Speeds On West 92Nd Street. There'S A Little Bit Of Discussion About Some Illegal Left Turns Happening So We'Ll Add A Few More Do Not Enter Or A Little Bit More Signage To Make Sure That Clear That East Bush East Bloomington Freeway Is Just A Northbound It'S A One Way Road Northbound Only But The Concerns That We Most That That Kind Of Wrung Out To Us The Most Was If There Speeds Speeding Issues On 92Nd Street And There'S Also Neighborhood Park We Want To Make That That We Want To Address That And So We Are Proposing To Do A Curb Bump Out On The South Side Of West 92Nd Street. Somewhere Near That Will Be Apparent Near Entrance Of The Park. We Don'T Have The Plans Yet Or We Are Still Just Actively Working This Out Right Now We'Re Also Looking Opening Up And Allowing Some On Street Parking On The South Side West 92Nd Street To Also To Improve Access To That Park. And When We Participate In Or We'Re An Active Participant In Research Study To Look At The Impacts Of Different Types Signage In Bloomington So Like The Use Of Those Playground Signs One Of The Side Effect Outcomes That We Found In That Research Is That Parking Around A Park Actually Had The Biggest On Driver Speeds Around The Park And So We Saw Almost A Ten Mile An Hour Reduction In Speeds As People Drove Through A Park. There Are Cars Actively Parked On The Roadway So See A Few Different Traffic Calming Elements From That Perspective By Doing Curb Bump Outs And Engaging Some Parking That'S It. That One You Said You'Re Going To Do Some Work To Try To Minimize Those Wrong Way Left Turns. What Kinds Of Things That We Found To Be Successful With That Commissioner Relman Archer Relman We'Re Just Going To Be Looking At Adding Some Additional Signage So There'S Purely Anecdotal From What We Heard From The Residents Haven'T Actually Been Able To Capture It When We Put Out Cameras Anything. So I Think It'S An Occasional Situation That'S Happening And Not A Systemic Thing. So We'Re Just Going To Make Sure That It Very Clearly Apparent That There'S We'Re Adding Supplemental Not Or Do Not Enter Signs On The Left Side So I'Ll Treat It A Little Bit More Like What It Would Look Like On A On A Ramp A Freeway Type Thing. So But It'S Not Anything That You This Your Team Has Identified A Safety Issue. That'S Correct. We Weren'T Able To Validate It Just With You Know, Just With Some Limited Data Collection That Is Trying To Decide If It Was A Safety Thing, Should It Not Was More The Question Was Getting Toward And That That'S The Same Kind Of China Thought That We Went Through. So We Tried To Kind Of Validate If This Was A Real Thing Happening. We Got All Creative On Lots Of Different Options And Then Realized We Can Solve Lots Of Things But We Need To Actually See There'S A Provable Problem First. Anything Else On This One? Okay. Okay. All Right. 82Nd Street Between 12Th Avenue And Old Cedar Avenue. This Is A Sanitary Sewer Project, A Water This Is A Water Main Project We Will Check With The People That Actually You Know So This A Water Main Project On 82Nd Street Which Is One Of Those Examples Where A Curb That You Know When We'Re Working That Deep Curb Line Does Get Have An Opportunity To Be Adjusted And So With That In Mind We Are Looking To Let'S See So Currently This Is A 40 About A 44 Foot Wide Road. We'Ve Already Done Just A Striping Modification On This Road So We Have One Lane In Each Direction And Marked Bike Lanes Although I Will Say They Are Not Very Well Maintained This Point So They Will Get You Better With This With This Iteration And Since We Are Moving The South Curb Line We'Re Going To Be Narrowing The Roadway On This One. So We Are Going To Provide A A Boulevard Instead Of Just Having Curb Walk On Both Sides Of The Street. So With That South Curb Line Moving We'Ll Move That To The North To Get Some Set Back And Then The Resulting Cross Section Will Be Left In The Foot Drive Lane In Each Direction And Six Foot Marked Bike Lanes On The Roadway. Another Thing That We Have Heard Through The Years On And Near This Area That Was Can Be Impacted With This Project Is At The Intersection Of 82Nd And 12Th Itself. So We Know That We Have Quite A Bit Pedestrian Activity In This Area. We Have Great Destinations On Both Sides Of The Street With Parks And Regional Trails. This Has Always Been A Little Bit Of A Tricky Location For Crossing. So What We Are Proposing We Looked At Several Different Ways To Do Some Pedestrian Enhancement Here But What What We'Ve Landed On Is Again A Pedestrian Island And Still Being Able To Maintain One Thru Lane In Each Direction And The Bike Lanes. So This Again Is Another Situation Where Just By Making Pedestrian An Exposure Is Limited And They'Re Only Crossing One Lane Of Traffic At A Time We'Re Able To Provide That Pedestrian Safety Improvement. We Will Likely Be Removing Crosswalk Markings That Are On The North Side Of The Intersection And Just Consolidating And Encouraging Pedestrian Crossings On. This Enhanced South Side . Mr.. Albrecht Thank You, Chair. Pre-Baby This Was On My Walking Around So I Appreciate This Because I Intersection Was Always Tricky To Cross I'M Any There'S A Pretty Big Multi-Family Building More Lots Of Buildings On The North Side I Think That Will Be They Think People Will Cross On The North Side Regardless. Commissioner That That'S A Great Question And So Actually This Year As A Follow Up To Our Active Action Plan This Whole Section From 82Nd Up To American Boulevard Was Really Prioritized We'Re Going To Be Doing A Demonstration Project In This Area To Address Some Of That Additional Pedestrian Crossing. We Didn'T Want To Not Do This Enhancement While We Have Opportunity It Will Not Preclude Us From Doing More On As You Moved Further To The North. A Lot Of What We Saw Was There'S There Are Several Bus Stops In This Area And So Is Actually Even More Pedestrian Crossing Demand Generated From That Housing In That Area A Little Bit Further To The North. And So That'S The Section That Will Be We'Ll Be Working On For Identifying The Proper Treatment There With Our Thank You Project. Okay I Have A Few More Notes That I Should Say On This One. So Staff Has A Livability Of Local Streets Work Plan Initiative For 2024 Which Will Include A Review Of The Pmp Policy For Possible To Better Match The Current Status Of The Program. So We'Re Going To Be Looking At Street With Policies For One Opportunities Present Itself Like This One For New Curb Or Relocate Blocks Curb Due To Utility Or Other Construction Work. So Think When Opportunities Like This Come Up That Trigger Offer Options. So There'S There Are Under 11 Miles Of The 340 Miles Of City Streets Right Now That Do Not Have Curb On Either Side Of The Road. So Projects Similar To 82Nd Street Where There Will Be Utility Replacements Requiring ,The Removal Of Curb And Gutter On An Extended Segment Of Street Be Situations Where Reduced Street Width And Other Enhancements Could Be Explored. This Initiative Will Also Include Items Like Sidewalk Infill Tree Canopy Or Other Traffic Calming Measures. Some Which Have Been Highlighted Tonight Or Included In Recent Studies Like The Etp And The Neighborhood Traffic Management Plan Staff Intends On Coming To The Planning Commission In Summer Of 2024 To Review These Updates. So Since It Fell In Line With What We Considered Here. We Just Wanted To Make Sure That We Give An Update Well Kind Of Goes In Line With This Slide As So Since We Were Looking At Three Local Streets Or Neighborhood Streets That We'Re Going To Have That Proposed For New Curb So Many You Has An Existing Unencumbered With 29 Feet We Did Send A Survey To The Residents On This Roadway Stating That The Standard Width For That'S For This Local Section Would Be 32 Feet With Parking On Both Sides But Given Option Of A 28 Feet With Parking On Just One Side Meadowview Survey Results Did Indicate A Preference For The 32 Foot Standard Overlooks Circle Similar They Have An Existing 37 Foot Why Do We Told Them That The Standard Is 32 Feet With Parking Almost Sides Gave Them The Option Of The 28 Feet And They They As Well Did Support The 32 Feet And Then Orchard Springs While They The 28 Feet They Did Not Support Curb At All So They'Ve Been Removed By Council For The Program For This Year. Question For You On The On The Survey Which I Think Is Good To You. Can People Who Live There Know Best How Roads Do And Don'T Work With The 28 Foot Option Did That Include A Sidewalk That In Exchange For That Narrower Because My My Thought Is Because Even Though We Know The City Owns The Right Of Way In Everyone'S Yard That'S Not What People Perceive. So Anytime You Can Achieve Something Like A Sidewalk On One Side Without Anyone Feeling Like They Lost Their Yard I Wasn'T Sure If That Was Part Of The Survey Or Not. Mr. Ramon We'Re On These Specific Sections. We Did Not Offer Sidewalk As Like An Alternative To That Space Especially On Overlook Circle Though The Footprint Is Going To Be Reducing Significantly Regardless So Their Yards Are Growing Regardless. Thanks Commissioner Gottesman Thank You To Our One Question I Have Is You Know You Pulled The Residents What Percentage Of The Residents Responded? Yes, Two Or Three Or Is It 90% So On Meadowview We Had Eight Responses And 15 Non-Response Answers On Overlook. We Had Eight Responses And Six Non Responses So As With All Of Our Surveys We Only Count The Ones That Return But I Mean Just Yeah Cheers To Your Question Relatively Low Response Rate We Get 33% Response To Some Of Our Hearings Here That Would Be Impressive. Commissioner Cooked In Maroon Where Is Orchard Springs? I'M Going To Call Bob Because I Probably Would Answer Incorrectly. Good Evening. The Orchard Springs Is On In The Rear. Dale Ridge Road Is Off A 98Th Street And Dale Ridge Area. Trying To Think Of Indian Mounds Um Just Northeast Of There That Area Down There Martin Luther Campus Just Northeast Of The Martin Luther Campus Areas Where Springs Way On The Way On The East Side Of Town. So Thank You. Yeah. Anything Else On This One? All Right. Okay. And Then Know This Is Not A Crosswalk Meeting But I Did Want To We'Ve Mentioned A Couple Of So Far So I Kind Of Wanted To Show This Is A Bit Of A Banner Year For Bloomington On The Number Of Crosswalk Enhancements That We'Re Working On. So I Just Wanted To Show It Off A Little Bit. We Talked About The The Two Crossings On 86Th Street At Emerson And Bryant With The Bryant Park Area. We Are Also Doing An Enhancement On West 90Th Street At Trap Ball Park So Track Ball Park Is Other Park That'S Receiving The Full Modifications As Part Of Their Master Planning Process. So That Will Be In A We Will Create A Pedestrian Refuge Island And A Single Lane Crossing On That One As Well. We Are Also Going To Be Adding An Ar Pedestrian Activated Rfid Flasher On That One Given The Both The Traffic Volumes And The Fact That You Will Be Drivers Will Be Coming Off Of France Avenue So Kind Of A Little Bit Of A Higher Speed Environment Although The Speed Is Is Likely To Be Reduced On That Section Which You Will Hear From Mr. Robert Shortly. Let'S See East Second Street At 12Th Avenue We Just Talked About That One With The With The Water Main Project West 98Th Street At Xerxes Avenue. So This One There'S A Very Long Section Of 98Th Street Between Panama And France That Has Crossing Locations. This One'S Been In The Works For Quite A While So This One And The Next Two Are All Part Of Our Highway Improvement Program Funding Where We Received State State Safety Funding To Proactively Provide Pedestrian Safety Enhancements. So This Location Will A Pedestrian Refuge Island As Well In That Lyndale Avenue At 96Th Street. So There'S Already A Crosswalk Enhancement At That One That'S Near Beep And South And Mcdonald'S And The Credit Union But We Still Have Three Lanes Northbound This One And We Have Relatively Low Compliance Of That Crosswalk So We Are Going To Be Doing Some Striping Modifications On Bump Out To Remove The Auxiliary Lane That Third Northbound Lane, Get That Signage And Pedestrians A Little Bit Closer To Where Drivers Should Be Paying Attention As Well As Adding Some Stop Here For Pedestrians ,Some Advance Signage. And So We Think That This Will Provide A Safer Pedestrian Crossing And Then We'Ll Chalk Up Your Road At Avenue And That'S At That South Drive Where We Recently Were Talking Activities On Our Entrance. So We'Re Are Actually Proposing There'S Some A Little Bit Of Movement Restricted Vehicle Movement Restrictions That Go Along With That Extending Som Medians Providing Pedestrian Refuge Island Production Activated, Rfid Flashers And Then The Two On East 86Th Street There'S One At Bloomington Avenue And At 12Th Avenue Those Are Actually Both A Result Of Removing An Old Pedestrian Signal That Is No Longer Working And It'S At The End Of Its Life. And So Be Taking That Out And Then The Traffic Signal At East 86Th Street And 12Th That Signal Is No Longer Warranted. The Traffic Volumes Have Reduced Enough On 12Th Avenue That There That That Is Not Needed For Vehicle Capacity And So Removing Those Devices We Will Be Pedestrian Refuge Islands And Signs And Marked Crosswalks Those All Right So Mr. Cochran Thank You Miss Chair Miss Brown With The The Sidewalk Enhancements And You Mentioned Lyndale At One Location Are We Looking At Lyndale In Regards To Like The Lindell Avenue Retrofit Plan? We'Re Starting To See A Lot Of Development There A Lot Of Ridential That Street Is Pretty Wide And So Locations Is That All Being Sort Of Looked At? Commissioner Cooktown Well This Is A Spot Safety And It Definitely Is Taking Into Account That The Future Kind Of Vision For What Could Happen On Lyndale Avenue And I Think Reduction Of That Auxiliary Lane Will Like Would Likely Happen Along The Entire Alignment This We'Re Just Looking At A Way To Make It Function Safely At This Localized Section So It'S Being Kept In Mind We We Have Not There'S Not Been A Deep Dove Into Linell Avenue As A Whole Outside Of The Retrofit Study From Just A Traffic I Mean You Just Said You Haven'T Looked At It So I'M Probably Going To Get In I'M Not Sure Here But Is Lyndale The Right Size Or I Mean Is It Too Big Or There'S A Lot Of Traffic Or Maybe It'S The Right Size But How Is How Has Lyndale In General You Can Say I Don'T Know I Think I Think There Are Opportunities For Changes. I Don'T I Think That They Are Not Simple Quick Fix Changes So Inner Commissioner Cooked In Great Job There'S A Lot To Be Said About Lyndale Avenue When We Did The Retrofit So It'S Evolved Over Time. It Has Lanes That Open Up And And It Has An Alignment Not Quite Straight It Has A Lot It'S Evolved Time The Lyndale Retrofit Looked At Land Use And How We Could Redevelop That Area And It Looked At Lyndale And Said We Should Put Some Multi-Modal Facilities Down There That'D Be Great But No Insight Into How We Do That And So Where I'M Coming To With All Of This Is What We Are Trying To Do Now Is Get A Corridor Study On Lyndale Avenue. We'Ll Look At 998 Street Obviously We Looked At That With The Study And South Of 98 Street We'Re Fine But As We Go North All The Way Up To American Boulevard, The 494 How Do We Accommodate More Time? How Do We Accommodate Bikes And Pedestrians Along There We Can'T Just Come Up With A Cross Section And Say This Applies Because The Road Is Too Different Everywhere You Go Along It. And So What We'Re Looking To Do Is A Corridor Study On That To Identify Those Things We Haven'T Got That Funded But That'S The Intent That'S Outside Of The Purview Of This Application. But I Would Say I'M Supportive That Particular Study Kocherga Also Thank You Chair. I Have Got A Couple Of Comments And Mostly All Positive But The Question I Have Is Earlier This Year There Was A Roundabout Study At Russell And 92Nd Street By Hillcrest Community School 93Rd 93 Okay So Is That I Didn'T See That In The Packet Today Can Talk A Little Bit About What The Results Of That Study Was And Is That In The Future Or What? Yeah. Commissioner Gottesman Well That Well We Did A Traffic Circle Trial At That Location That One Was Not That One Was A Little Different Path And So These Are All Improvements That Are Being Into Projects That Are That Are Happening And That One Is More Of A Neighborhood Initially A Neighborhood Initiated Concern Which We'Re You Know, Giving Giving Our Attention To And Trying To Find What Would Be Some Of The Best Solutions It Has Definitely Based On The Neighborhood Meetings On The Survey Has Expanded More Than Just That Intersection And So We Will Continue To Work With That Neighborhood And Kind Of Pursue Some Some Different Options That Probably Will Roll Into Next Summer As We Just Will Continue Doing Some Planning As Far As I Know I 93Rd And Russell Are Not On The Near Term Pmp List So We'Ll Have To Pursue Other Ways To Move Forward When Some Solutions Are Identified Everybody Is On Board With Okay And Followup Just Comments. I Am So Excited Very Excited About The Xerxes 98Th Street Crosswalk. Yes I Like Cheering Here That'S Right Near My Home By Brookside Park And You'Re Right There Is No Crosswalk Penn And France On 19Th Street It'S A Busy Street I'Ve Walked It Biked It So I'M Super Excited About That Crosswalk So Thank You Building That And And Bringing It To Our Community Also The Old Shakopee And Steve Stevens Avenue Actually Used To Live On Stevens Two Houses In And Would Jaywalk Across Wall Shakopee There And Thinking About The Proximity To Kennedy High School I Think It'S Imperative For Us To Have Safe Crosswalks For Our Children So Kudos On That One. Just Another Little Plug That I Would Is With Our Staff To Look At Potentially Looking At Traffic Mitigations Or Roundabout Options. James And Ninety-Fifths Just Try That. So City Hall So There'S James And Then Right By There'S A Kind Of It'S A One Way Stop Sign And The Other Is Just A Throughput And I Can See A Lot Of Traffic Going Through Area By The Railroad Tracks And. It Might Be An Opportunity To Do Some Traffic Calming In That Area In The Near Future. So Just Putting Plug In There Is I'Ve Seen A Lot Of Opportunities For Improvements Myself So Otherwise Great Great Work. Let'S See What It Takes To Get That Crosswalk And Services Needed You Why Bring It Up Four Years So I Think I'M Glad To See It Getting Done. My Kids Call The One That'S On Brookside Xerxes Brookside Park In Xerxes They Call It Momma'S Right Because That Was A Huge Improvement For My Neighborhood. So Thank You Kush Ethan. I Know You Said On Lyndale And 96Th There Was Already Improvements. However There'S Still Compliance Issues. What Exactly Are Those Compliance? Sure. So There'S Just There'S Notable Drivers Still Driving Through And Past Pedestrians Even When The Flashers Are Have Activated At That Location It Is A Little Bit Higher Volume On Lyndale Avenue And Some Of Our Other Crossings And Any Time That You Have Multiple Lanes Sometimes Additional Enhancements Are Are Needed At Those Locations. So It'S Just The The Observed People Illegally Driving Past A Pedestrian. Okay. My Follow Up Question To That If Your Mind Is On 95Th And Lyndale Right North Of That Road. Yeah, I Know That A Lot Of Cars After Leaving A Drive Thru Mcdonald'S There'S The U-Turn I Live South Of 98Th So I Always Make That U-Turn. Is There Anything That Would Be Done To I'M Not Sure. Is It A Safety Issue Or Is For Sure So Are You You'Re Talking About When You'Re On Going Southbound And Making A U-Turn To To Turn To Then Go North On To Turn Into The No. So When You'Re Leaving Mcdonald'S And You'Re Going Northbound. Yeah, I'M Trying To Go Southbound. Okay. A Lot Of Cars I Always See Cars Doing U-Turns Because There'S No Unless You Go The Behind Another Side Of Mcdonald'S, There'S No Yeah. Yeah. Commissioner, You Said At This Time There'S No Intent To Post Restrictions On The U-Turns Since We Are Narrowing On That Southern At At 96Th Street Since We Are Narrowing The Cross Section We'Ll Have To See If There Are Any Conflicts With The Returning Vehicles But It'S Not There'S No Intention To Restrict U-Turns At This Time From A Designated Left Turn Lane Okay. If You Think You Hear Anything Else On This One, Think One To Keep An Eye On And It Will Overlap With Our Next Item As Well As I Continue Have Fairly Significant Concerns About The Additional Traffic That'S Going To Be Dumped On Pan On 82Nd With The Changes To The Freeway And The Fairly The Speed Which Is A Problem Already And The Fairly Poor Pedestrian Facilities There That'S More Of A Curb Walk Than A Sidewalk Especially As We'Ve Been Putting A Lot More Housing There Which Is Exactly Where We Want It And I Think We'Re Going To Have To Do Something Sooner Than Later With That From Our And Therefore The Good Thing About That Is The City Owns Most Of That Land That Could Be Improved And And So It'S As Money'S Always A Thing Right But I That'S A Area That I Have A Lot Of Concn About From A Pedestrian Movement. Again, We'Ve Got Even Now We'Ve Got Housing Now On The Other Side Of 82Nd And The Freeway Which Again All Good Stuff But I Think That'S Going To Be A Big Thing. I Know You'Ve Heard Me Say That But I Can'T Miss An Opportunity To Repeat It. Anything Else? Thank You. Good Work. All Right. Thank You. All Right. Item Three Is Another Study Item On Phase Two Of The Speed Limit. So You May Recall Last Year We The Study Item And Then The City Council Action On General Reduction Of Speed Limits On Most City Streets Traffic And Transportation Engineer Roberts Here To Talk About Speed Limits On Larger Streets And So We'Ll Turn It Over To Him For The Details. Thank You, Mr. Chair. Commissioners, I'M Kerkovich And Transportation Engineer. One More Traffic Item And I Appreciate Your Time Tonight To Talk Through Traffic As Mentioned. So Just By Way Of History Minnesota Has Always Retain Control Over Speed Limits No Local Agency City County In The State Can Actually Change Speed Limits Until 2019 The State Legislature Finally Changed The And Cities Can Change Their Own Speed Limits Cannot However So When You See The Maps That I'M Putting Up Here Most Of The North-South Routes As Well As Olczyk Road Are Under The Jurisdiction Of The County. So None Of Those Speed Limits Are Going To Be Changing. There Could Potentially Be Some Changes Too To Enable Them But We Don'T Know What Will Happen There Yet Earlier In Last Year Excuse Me The Council With The Recommendation Of The Planning Made The Decision To Change Local Streets To 25 Miles An Hour. So All Local Streets As Of This Spring When We Get The Signs Posted Will Have A Speed Limit Of 25 Miles An Hour. Right Now It'S 30 Under State Statute So A Five Mile An Hour Reduction There And With That Decision In Mind, The Question Became What To Do About Our Larger Streets And How We Should Post Those Speed Larger Streets Where On The Local Streets We Don'T Post It'S Done By Ordinance 30 Existing Or 25 In The Future Here On These Larger These Are The Ones Where You See The Familiar Black And White Speed Limit Signs Right Now Our Speed Limits Vary 30 Miles An Hour The Highest Speed On A City Is 40 Miles An Hour. Some Of The Hennepin County Roadways Have 45 Mile An Hour Speed Limits. That'S Old Shock Road Norman Dale And A Bit Of France Have 45 Mile An Hour Speed Limits Again Those Won'T Be Changing. So We'Re Looking At What Can Be Done To The City Streets Up To That 40 Miles An Hour We Put A Map Out Of Proposed Speed Limits That'S Been On The Web For Public Comment A Series Of Speeds Between 25 Miles An Hour Posted All The Way Up To 35 Miles An Hour Posted. We'Ve Gotten Some Feedback On That. That Feedback Will Come To You The Commission Later This Month When We Come Back And Ask For A Recommendation So You'Ll See The Correspondence From Residents On This Issue. But Basically What I'Ve Proposed Is A Series Speed Limits From 25 Miles An Hour All The Way Up To 35. And I'M Going To Walk Through Where I Came Up With This Or My Thinking On This Starting Out With The Classification The Roadways Residential Roadways Will Be At 25 Miles An Hour And You Think Of Your Typical Residenal Roadway When We Look At Access To The Road And Speeds Starting There, There'S Almost Unlimited Access On Local Streets There'S Driveways Pretty Much Continuously For Houses And Things Like That You Can Always Expect Bikes And Pedestrians On Any Neighborhood Street They'Re Always There. So We Have That Low Speed Limit Access Is Largely Unlimited. You Step Up To Your Collector Streets Easier Roads Like 102Nd And James Avenue That Was Talked About Just A Few Minutes Ago. These Are Little Higher Speed Streets. They Generally Include Separate Pedestrian Facilities, Sidewalks, The Can They Often Include Bike Lanes. So This Is The Majority Our Cycling Network Is On Collector Roadways. You Can Always To See Non-Motorised Users Around On The Roadway. Access Is A Little Bit Limited Generally Not A Continuous Set Of Driveways Along A Collector Street And Then You Step Up To Your Arterials. See There'S The Larger Streets Like 98Th Street And American Boulevard. We'Ve Tried To Restrict Access That Driveways Are Limited On Those Roads. We'Re Trying To Maintain A Little Bit Better Capacity, A Little Bit Better Throughput. These Are Longer Trips Whereas Your Local And Collector Street They'Re Very Short Trips. These Get A Little Longer Trips On Arterials There Are Generally Always Separate Facilities For Pedestrians, Often Separate Facilities For Bicyclists Just Because It'S Uncomfortable Riding On These Roadways And I'M Proposing Those At That 35 Mile An Hour Speed Limit If You Step Out From That You'Re Obviously Into The Realm Of Parkways And Highways Like The 494 Where Access Is Strictly Curtailed 135,000 Cars A Day. There Are No Pedestrians Or Bikes On Those Roads And We Don'T Have To Deal With Those . I'M Proposing The Highest Speed Down Five Miles An Hour. The Currently The Highest Speed Roadway Is 40 Miles An Hour And I'M Proposing That The Fastest Be 35 And There'S A Lot That We Know About This Over When They Built And Posted Speeds On Some The Roads In Bloomington One Of The Major Things That We Know Now Are The If You Have A Crash Involving A Cyclist Or A Pedestrian, A Non-Motorized User, The Risk To That Non-Motorized User Does Not Increase Linear With Speed It Increases Exponentially And Once You Get Over About 35 Miles An Hour It Doesn'T Go Well For That Non-Motorized User And When You'Re Managing A Transport System You'Re Always Trying To Find This Balance Between Safety And Mobility For Everyone On The Roadway And With The Short Trips That You Get On City Streets. You'Re Not Gaining A Whole Lot Of Mobility Back Going Much Faster. You Know If You Can Go 40 Miles An Hour Versus 35, You'Re Only Gaining Between Here In The Freeway. It'S Not A Significant Hindrance At That. Whereas If We Had Longer Trips You Might Think About It Differently And So You Would Drastically Decrease Safety A Great Increase In Mobility And Those Two Things Kind Of Come Together Right At That 35 Mile An Hour Limit. So For A An Urban Area Like Bloomington Or Anywhere In In The Twin Cities Metro 35 Miles An Hour Is About The Fastest I Think That That Road Should Be Posted And Most Jurisdictions Are Following Suit. So Just To Walk Through The Proposal The 25 Mile An Hour Posted Roadways Bloomington Has Some Amazing Access To Some Regional Recreation Facilities These Are Places Like The River Valley, The Wildlife Refuge Over 34 Avenue Where We Get A Lot Of Users Into The City Just To Go To These Places. These Are Somewhat Park Style Roads Where You Have A Lot Of Bicyclists And Pedestrians Right On The Road Getting To Those Recreation Destinations Along With The Cars On And On Familiar Users. And So I'M Proposing That Those Be Posted At 25 Miles An Hour. There'S Exception We Have A Part Of West Bush Lake Road. It'S Quite Circuitous, Very Narrow, Very Forested. It Looks Like A Cart Path That Has Evolved Through Time And I Don'T Believe That Road Is Safe At Much Over 25 Miles An Hour. So I'M Proposing To Keep That Posted At 25 Stepping Up To The Collector System This Is The Majority Of Our Assigned Roadways. This Includes 102Nd Xerxes 106. Most Of These Are Currently 30 Miles An Hour. I'M Proposing That They All Be Made 30 Miles An Hour With A Couple That I'Ll Talk About. But For Instance, 102Nd Street France In Armidale Has Been 35 Miles An Hour For A Number Of Years That Goes To 30 Miles An Hour Under This Proposal All The Exceptions Are Bloomington Ferry And Drive And I'Ll Touch On Those And Why I Think They Need To Stay The Way They Are A While In A Bit And Then Moving Up To The Arterial Always Is A Large Roadways In The City 98 Street American Boulevard These Are Roads That Carry 20,000 Or More Cars A Day Multiple Lanes And I'M Proposing We Keep These At 35 Miles An Hour With A Couple Exceptions. The First Is American Boulevard Between Old Cedar Avenue And Portland. This Is One Of The Highest Pedestrian Activity Areas In City And It'S Not That People Are Just Moving Along The Road. They'Re Crossing American Boulevard, They'Re Crossing All The Way Into Richfield And We'Re Putting A Nice Bridge Right There At Chicago To Help Them Move In And Out Of The City. And So Because Of The Number Of Pedestrians, The Walking Conditions In This Area I'M Proposing That That Remain Or That That Be Capped At 30 Miles An Hour Instead Of 35 Miles An Hour Proposed. The Other One Is Lyndale Avenue And We Talked About Lyndale A Little Bit. It'S Evolved Through Time And It Has The Configuration Of A Collector Roadway The Number Of Driveways The The Amount Of Pedestrians And Things Like That It'S Acting As A Collector Roadway In Many Forms. It Does Carry A Lot Of Traffic. There'S Up To 20,000 Cars A Day On Some Portions. But Lyndale Is One That I Believe Should Be Kept At 30 Miles An Hour. So That'S The Way I Included It In Proposal. Question For You On The American Boulevard Segment Your Analysis I Think Is Accurate. How Is It How Effective Is It To Have Relatively Short Segment At A Lower Speed Followed By An Increase Again I Mean What The Compliance Is What I'M Thinking About Commissioner Rohman If We Don'T Do It Properly It Won'T Be As Effective As You'D Hope. And The So The Hope Here Is We Can Do It As A Special Emphasis Zone And We'Re Looking At That Right Now. You Know, Can We Put Supplemental Devices On The Speed Limit Signs Like The Orange Plaques Or Things Like That That Really Raise Awareness? So For Now That'S The Plan And I'Ll Talk About Long Term In A Little Bit But Yeah This Is One Where Instead Of Having That Nice Consistent Speed Along The Corridor We Are Going To Propose To Drop The Speed Limit There And We'Ll To Do Some Work To Make Sure Drivers Understand Okay So. You Know One Of The Things That We Look At Is How People Are Driving A Road And As I'M Sure You All Understand Speed Limit Signs. A Lot Of People Don'T You Don'T Pay Much Attention Than When You'Re Driving Much More Responsive To Conditions And Circumstances. So For Right Now You'Re Going To Be Driving Home And You Know It'S Icy Out There And You'Re Going To Slow Down Going To Adjust Your Speed Accordingly Because You Don'T Want To Break Your Car When The Road Is Narrow Or You'Re Going To Slow Down A Lot More When There'S Conditions You Don'T Understand Or Are Confusing The Speed Limit Is One Important Factor But It'S Actually Not The Strongest Thing That Influences Speed. And So What We Wanted To Do When We'Re Proposing This Speed Limit Said What Are Most Drivers Already Doing? And So For We Look At The 85Th Percentile Speed And That'S Simply The Speed 85% Of Drivers Are At Or Under. And Then On This Map I Mapped That Out On The Roads Where Those Current Speeds The 85Th Percentile Speed Is 5 To 8 Above What I'M Proposing The Speed Limit At That'S In Yellow And Then When They'Re Higher Than That 10% Above Those Are The Roads In Red And Simply To Say This Gives Us A Map For One It'S Interesting To Look At The Roads Where People Are Doing Pretty Good American For Instance, They'Re Already Driving Pretty Well On American Boulevard. It'S We'Ve Worked Hard To Get The Signal Timing Just Right To Get That Nice Slow Down The Corridor And Some Of These Roads Do Some Good Compliance There'S Some Hotspots We Have Some Work To Do But When We'Re Looking At In The Future This Is One Of The Things We'Re Going To Look At As We Go Through Design Whether It'S Just The Pavement Overlay That We Talked About Earlier Whether We'Re Looking For Funding Or Reconstruction. We Know A Lot More Now About What Affects People'S Driving Behaviors Especially Their Speeds And How We Can Influence That With The Built Environment. So This Forms The Basis Of A Speed Management Program That When We'Re Programing Those Pavement Or Just Thinking About Our Funding Applications That We Can Look To And Say This Road Has A Problem. What Can We Do To Manage Those Speeds A Little Bit Better? 102Nd Street Francis In Armadale There'S Three Schools Along That Portion Of The Roadway Where We Really Need To Slow Traffic Down And So We'Re Looking At Schools On Speed Limits And Things Like That. Auto Club Road Yeah That'S A Pretty Wide That'S That They'Re Going Pretty Fast On That One Is Aptly Named 106Th Street Between Around Five W And We'Ve Got Some Work To Do There And So Way We'Re Incorporating This Information Lower Lyndale We'Ve Talked To You A Couple Of Times About That Where People Are Going Down That Hill To Get To The River Volumes And They'Re Moving Quite Quickly So We'Re Building In Speed Control As Part Of That Project Some Of The Funding Applications That We'Re Looking At Right Now That Amy Talked About Mr. Brown Talked About We'Ve Applied For Some Grant Funding For Crosswalks On Auto Club Road With Those Wide Pedestrian Islands Because That Influences Driver Speed To Get Since A Slow Down So This Forms The Basis Of A Long Term Plan That We Can Look At To Deal With Speeds. Mr. Goldson One Question I Have Around The Edf You Know This This Data Which I Think Is Fantastic But Is It Based On Traffic Observations Or Is It Based As Well Police Presence And Traffic Tickets? Mr. Chairman? Commissioner Coleman, This Is Just Strictly Based On Drivers Speeds That They'Re Going And Actually I Use What Tool We Have That Actually Uses Cell Phone And Gps To Get These Speeds So It'S Not Quite As Accurate As The Road Tube'S But It'S Just How Fast People Are Going Day To Day. We Wouldn'T Have An Officer Out There When We Collected It Because Of Course That Influence Sits And We Want To See What People Are Really Doing. So Yeah It'S Just Free Flow Speeds. Very Interesting. Thank You. Yeah. One Of The Things I Find Fascinating This Is If I Look At The Areas Not Exclusively But The Majority Of The Areas That Are Here In And Then I Hear You Were Talking About You Know We Had A 2535 Classification And One Of The Things You Talked About With 435 Classification As Areas That Have Fewer Perpendicular Crossings And What I See Here In These Areas Is People Behaving That Way Is These Are Areas Where On One Side Of The Road It'S Probably A Long Stretch Of A Park Or A Wetland Or Something. And So To Your I Think There'S You Know Work About How You Design The Road But There'S Also Just I Think Human Behavior. To Your Point When I See A Long Stretch Where There Is No Danger Because Nothing Is Going To Be Coming At Me People Drive That Way. So It Partly For Me And I Had It'S Validating What You Were Talking About As You'Re Classifying Roads Is That In Spite Of Our Classification The Behavior Will In Fact Maybe Be That Way. So This Map Here The Two Purple Roads And Very Not A Club In This Spring Means To The Last Point Those Roads Were Built Quite Late Stage In The City'S History. They'Re Built Very Large, Very Wide Bloomington Very If You'Ve Driven Down There'S A Lovely Drive. There'S A Big Wide Grassy Boulevard There With Two Lanes On Either Side And You Can Just Zoom Are Speed Limits Need To Be Credible And So Until We Can Do Some Re-Engineering Some Redesign Of Those Roadways Proposing That We Just Leave Them At 35 Miles An Hour, We Mitigate Any Problems, Make Sure We'Re Keeping Bikes And Pedestrians Safe And Cars As Well But That We Leave Those 35 Miles An Hour. The Council Has Asked The Staff To Do A Study On Bloomington Ferry And That Work Start Later This Year When We'Re Looking At Things That We Can Do To Sort Of That Roadway And Bring It Get Rid Of Some Asphalt There Including, Some Roundabouts At Intersection Control Things And So We'Ll Study That One And Then I Would Say The Same Things There Where We'Re Applying For Some Funding To Do Some Pedestrian There And Hopefully Start Bringing Those Speeds Down. So I But I'M Just Proposing That We Keep Those As They Are For Now Implementation So We Are Here We Are Going To Be Back Here Next Month Looking For A Well Let'S Go Through This One The Time Timeline. We Will Be Back Here In March Asking For A Commission Or Recommendation Of Approval For Map And This Proposed Speed Limits To The Council. We Are Developing The Signs And Plans And Things Right Now And We'Ll Start Putting Those Up In April. It Looks Like We Might Have A Really Good Weather Window Though So We Might Get That Work Done Early. Normally We Don'T Start About Digging Holes For Signs Until Way Into April And Then We'Re Going To Really On The Public Outreach And Engagement Letting People Know About The Changes, Letting Know About The New Speed Limits And The Need To Slow Down That Work Will Take Place In The Spring So Most The Public Facing Portion Here Will Start Up In April And You'Ll See A Lot Of Information About That. We'Ve Got Some Code Changes To Do That Will Be Seeking The Commission'S Approval For What We'Re Really Going To Focus With The Police Though It'S Just Raising Awareness Of The Changes For The First Year We'Ve Had Really Good Success With Our Radar Speed Signs That We Put Up On A Semi-Permanent And Mobile Basis Just To And We This All Through The Summer The Police Told Us Around All Through The City You Can Call Up And Request One And They'Ll Have One On Your Road. You Know That Day Just To Really Raise People'S Awareness Of The Speed And Try To Bring Those Speed Limits Down. Let'S See We'Ve Put Budget In For Some More Of That And We'Re Asking For Council For That And Then We'Re Doing Working With Our Communications Group To Put The Word Out As Well Through Those Channels. We As I Said, We'Ll Be Back To The Commission In March Looking For Approval To Send That To Council So That'S What I Have And I'D Love To Hear Your Thoughts. Question Thank You, Mr. Chair . My General Thoughts Are I Like This. You Know, One Of My Concerns When We Talk About Speed Limits As Has Already Been Discussed That People Drive The Speed Of Their Surroundings N What The Sign Says And I Think What Excites Me The Most About This Is What Mr. Roberts Called The Speed Management Program Where We'Re Basically Out Of The Way I Kind Of Think Of It This Is Almost As Much Of A Guide Map As To Where We'Re Going To Do Things Like Decreasing Road Widths And Things Like That As Much As As Anything Else And The Data That We Have Where We Know These Are The Hotspots And That'S Where We Need To Focus On On On Traffic Calming Measures I Think Is The Best Thing And The Last Thing I'Ll Say And I Don'T Know If This Was Intentional Or Not But The Last Time We Talked About Speed Limit Reduction I, I Had A Lot Of Negative Thoughts About The Way That Was Named And That Nobody Knew What We Were Talking About. And This Was Very Clearly Called Speed Reduction Or Something Similar To That And . Again, Not Sure If It Was Intentional But I Appreciate Stuff Like Making Very Clear To The Public What This Is Because I Think We'Re Going To Have Much Better Public Engagement. Thank You. Question About And This Is More This Is Just My Own Education. You Indicated That Again Absent Any Change In Legislation, Counties Cannot Reduce Speed Limits. But We Know In This Around Education We Have Variable Speed Limits On Our County Roads We Have Some That Are 30 Some Of The 35 Some Of Them Are 45. Is That What'S That Based On Don'T They So They Can'T The Counties Can'T Control The Speed But Clearly We Have Different Types Of County Roads. All Right, Mr. Chairman, Was Just The Way The Legislation Was Written In The Capitol There. I Don'T Have A Lot Of Insight Why We Were Given The Authority And They Not I Suspect That Could Change And That'S Okay. And I'M Just Kind Of For Example, Nicollet Is A County Road That Has A Speed France Is A County Road That Has A Different Speed. Both Are In Four Lanes And So I Just It'S My Own Education About It That'S Dictated The Data That Based On With Is It Based On Volume Is It Based On Access? Yeah. No, I Understand Your Question A Little Better. It'S Based On A Lot Of Things And The Way That That Would Happen, The Way That That Speed Limit Was Set Or Changed In Past That They Would Petition The State And The State Would Come In , They'D Send Their Engineers In And They Would Do A Study Based On What'S That 85Th Percentile Speed, What Are The Road Width Where The Lane Widths They Didn'T Look So Much At Community Goals Or Anything About That And Then They Took Those Numbers, They Crunched Them And They Said Here'S New Speed Of It You Didn'T Get A Veto. It Just Was What It Was. And So I Think That Hopefully Gives You Some Insight Into Why We Ended Up With The Ones We Did Now Granted. Many Of Those Were Set 40 Or More Years Ago. The Areas Densify The Entire Metro Has Densify And Everything. So I Think If The State Did Those Same Studies Now They'D Probably Come Up With A Different Number Like We Are. Sure. Thanks Commissioner Albert The Chair I Have A Question About I Have A Theory Like A What If Question And You Might Not Be Able To Answer This But Maybe You Some Data On It I'M Thinking About So Caveat That I Live On Walczak Bay Road And I Know That People Traveling East West Travel On Or Shakopee Road Or They Travel On 90Th Street So If We'Re To Reduce Speed Limits On One Road That'S Primarily The Same East West Traffic Does That Push People To In Your Opinion Or Do You Have Any Data On It? Does That Push People To Then Go A Higher Speed Limit Road Even Five Miles Of Which No One Goes 35? I Know Chuck B Road But Regardless This I Just Wonder Are We Does That Does It Funnel The Higher Speed Limit Folks To Certain Areas Of The City And Then Then County Roads? I Would Say. Right, Yeah. Mr. Chairman Commissioner Albrecht It'S Actually A Complicated Question But It'S A Good One And It'S Kind Of At The Heart Of The Work We Do Especially Terms Of Traffic Management. And One Of The Reasons I Propose Keeping These Speeds On The Larger Roads Always Higher Is Because People Do Optimize For Time And I Don'T Want Them Optimizing Their Trip Through Our Neighborhood And So That'S Why I Want Those Higher Speed Limits That Said To Divert From Something Like Old Shakopee Up To 90Th You'D Have To Have A Significant Time Advantage To Do That Because The Time It Takes You To Make That Diversion Have To Be Very, Very Significant In The Time It Takes You To Get There. And So We Think About That As We Manage The System But I Don'T Think For That The Trips We'Re Looking At I Just Don'T Think You'D Find A Real Time Advantage In Doing So More Your Trip Time Is Probably Governed By The Way The Lights Are Timed And Other Things That You Deal With What Time Of Day Is At Peak Hour And That Kind Of Thing And So You'Re Not Going To Know Intuitively If Even You Tried To Do That Experiment That It'S Faster To Go Up This Route. So I Think Would Be Okay In There. What We'Re Looking At Here It'S A Complicated Question And There'S People Paying Really Good Money To Model Those Things And Figure That Out. But Anything Else Let'S Check Hooked In . Thanks Jerry Mr. Robertson. I Hear Correctly That On American Boulevard We Use The Lights To Slow Down Traffic When We Coordinate The Signals Obviously On American Boulevard We Have To Think About East To West And North Coordination On The County Roads We Do Now The Practice Is To Try To Coordinate Those With The Speed That We Want People To Go Which Is The Speed Limit. When I Started Traffic Engineering They Just Invented The Wheel Not Electricity Came And We Just Sort Of Said What Are People How Fast Are They Going? And That'S What We Coordinated To Now We Actually Coordinate What We Want Them To Go Because It Does Change People'S Behaviors. If You'Ve Ever Been Down A Contiguous Corridor, You Know You Rush Off The Signal And You'Re Flying The Speed Limit And Stop At The Next Like You Do Train Yourself You Do To Understand Oh If I Just Go The Speed Limit I Get All The Greens And It Does Modify People'S Behavior It'S Quite Effective. Great Thank Anything Else On This One? Did You Get What You Needed Did? Thank You. Thank You. Good Work. I Don'T Number Four Is A Policy And Issue Update From The Planning Manager. It'S Jerome And Commissioners . We Have Three Weeks Until Your Next Meeting On March 7Th. So Far We Have Three Areas On That Agenda Privately Initiated Code Amendment And That Is Related To Congregate Living Facilities And I Do District We Have A Public Hearing On The Larger Roadways Speed Limits That You Just Discussed And. Then We Have A Study Item On Greenhouse Gas Emissions And Then March 21St. So Far We Have Two Items On The Agenda A Public Hearing On A Privately Initiated City Code Amendment This One Related To Trash Facilities In The Industrial Districts. And Then We Have A Study And Housing As A Human Right Resolution. That'S What We Have Coming Up Right. Anything Else Anyone Would Like To Raise Tonight? Well, All Right. Well, We Are Adjourned Until March 7Th. Thank"