You have I think one now. Okay. [clears throat] >> Cynthia, you add on the call or not? talk to her and she I made sure that she has access can't see people there. I think that looks don't believe she's here. No members of the public out there. No, >> texted me about coming. So, [clears throat] >> you maybe send her an email the invite part. Adrien, >> this is so good. >> Invite someone. >> The sea hunt. Hey, Sean. >> What's sick lasting? that that calls her if she's you don't [clears throat] have calling enabled for the volunteers. >> Hey John, how you doing? >> Everybody >> okay? Uh we'll get started with the with the meeting here. We'll see if Cynthia calls in. I'll watch my phone and see if she sends me a text. Hey, can't get in yet. [clears throat] Okay. Um, in that case, the first thing I'll do is call roll. >> That'd be great. [clears throat] >> Um, Rod Axel, are you here? >> Not here yet. >> Barnes, >> here. >> Present. Here. [clears throat] Not present. John Eagle >> here. Department here. Present. Carl Lindell >> here. >> Present. Karen Lungquist. >> Present. >> Present. Jamil Masuja >> here. >> Present. >> Genie McGovern. >> Present. >> Present. >> Angala. Oriho not present. Steve Peterson here. >> Present. [clears throat] Michael Ramirez >> here. >> Present. >> Mark Thorson >> here. >> Present. >> Okay. Um, one agenda item tonight, 2.1 periodic review of the city charter. Melissa. >> All right. Take it away. >> Um, so good evening everyone. Again, as a reminder, I'm Melissa Mandershide. I'm the charter commission attorney. Uh, and we had a presentation last week about or yeah, last week about chapters seven and eight. And um I have two updates on some discussion points from last week for you. And then we will get into chapter 12, which is Adrian's got pulled up here. Uh and then we have a bit of an update on um some uh sections on chapter 5. Um and then [clears throat] that that will be the agenda tonight. Um unless you have other things you want to talk about related to we have to stick to the periodic review of the charter um and to the PowerPoint slides. But if there's other things like PowerPoint slides, the reason we have to do that is because it's regular meeting. So we have to stick to what we have on the agenda. Any questions before I start with some updates? All right. So with regard to 7.10, which was um I just um last time about negotiable instruments um PE cards, electronic funds transfer. I wanted to give you an update that um the finance department has been doing some research um and and still working on the wording. They've reached out to several other charter cities um to see how they're handling this because a lot of times the uh language is uh very very similar in other charters and so they reached out. They're still working on it and they plan to bring an amendment in April or bring amendment in April. All righty. And then any questions on that? Okay. Um, one I'll just offer. One of the things that you all had talked about was PECards and then another thing we talked about Lori and I after the fact, Lori Economy Scholar are our CFO was whether we should also potentially add credit cards uh in general. So um wanted to be as um uh wholesome as possible and um durable for the future. And then the other one was 7.17 on slide 35. Um there was some discussion internally. Um I believe it was Ron uh Ron I think it was you Ron that brought up some ideas related to net debt um and some questions about net debt in that term. [clears throat] So um worked with our bond council and we have some draft language that we're reviewing um to clarify that uh and plan to bring that in April as well. All righty. Okay. So we'll jump into chapter 12 if that's all right. Um chapter 12 is a miscellaneous and um transitory provisions is the name of the chapter. Uh so it covers a wide range of of topics. Uh and you will see how wide that is when we get into it. Um chapter excuse me let's go to section one. So, um, every the first meeting of January, the city council designates an official newspaper. Much of state law still requires that things be published in the newspaper. Um, there was some loosening up recently to allow it to also be on website, which we have always I mean in my recent times done as well. So, for example, all of our public notices are on a notices page um on our city website along with live links to all the other um salient details. Um but we are still advertising in the newspaper and we um publish our not only our notices but also our ordinances there. And the newspaper that the city council has selected um is the Suncurrent. Um it's it there are some uh other statutes that are in um state law about the official publica or the official newspaper and distribution uh and that sort of thing. So we periodically analyze whether um the Star Tribune or another newspaper would would meet those requirements and um we still have a Bloomington local newspaper uh and it continues to meet the requirements um of that designation. So that continues to be the the staff recommendation and that's what they adopted in January. Any questions? >> They increased the uh font so we could read it. [laughter] >> Um I'll let you I can give you Mike Hanks's phone number. [laughter] Would it be and I don't even know if it qualify but um uh Finn's newsletter goes out to all residents or all households. Correct. >> Um so chair and members the Bloomington briefing I think is what you're referring to. Uh and we have periodically discussed whether that would be a good choice. it goes to every residential um location and that won't always be the right mix that we need because we have a lot of business um specific things that are happening as well. The other thing um with regard to the briefing is that the cadence it's a monthly um publication uh and the sunur is weekly and so that makes a really big difference to us with regard to the timing of notices. >> Yeah. Um, and then they also the publication schedule for that really beautiful award-winning publication is pretty far in advance and it it just doesn't work for the publication schedule. >> Sometimes though, you'll see a box with some sort of like coming soon legal information. Um so when we know about something that is going to be static and we try to get it in there >> questions. >> So oaths of office um you will per periodically see um when new police officers start or a new council member started. You you saw it if you watched the January meeting um when the new city manager started um he uh he was sworn in. And so this is essentially the oath that's required for those officials um those officers of the city. Any questions? The city clerk um typically administers that oath. Um uh we did some additional research and determined that the police chief could administer that oath for police officers. Uh and so he he does that. Now >> what level of employee in the city is considered an officer? >> [clears throat] >> Um to date during my time here we've interpreted to be police officers, firefighters, um council members, mayor and city manager or act you know that level the organizers. >> I'd have to double check maybe also city clerk. I have to double check on that. Okay. >> Any other questions? All right. Slide. This is very common um in the law and in any sort of corporation. Frankly, there are specific laws in state law um about u when a council member is interested in a contract. And in some um instances, you can um you can contract with uh so for example, if you're if a if a council member is selling property and the city wants to buy that particular parcel and that's the best parcel and whatnot, there are procedures to overcome the conflict. Those are rare. Um but typically um what you see here is that no officer of the city can have a personal financial [clears throat] interest or otherwise benefit financially from a contract. So how this plays out is at a city council meeting you'll see a council member abstain um from the vote and not vote and they'll say that because they have a a financial interest that they can't remedy. The law unpacks that a little bit more. So for example, if um if somebody is has an interest that is no no um no no more than every other member of so for example like a credit union. if they are if they have the exactly the same interest as every other member of the credit union. Um the law speaks to, you know, how to handle that vote and things like that um that are so um uh diluted and not personal to that individual member. The law specifically has addressed that over the years. Um, the other thing I'll add is, um, sometimes you'll see a council member speak to an issue where they want to address the potential for a financial conflict or the the, um, the sort of the a sense that there might be impropriety and so they'll specifically speak to that, but then they'll vote on it because they don't have a financial interest. So, they'll clarify that on the record. So sometimes you'll see that happen especially at the beginning of the year or on um contracts where people have um some sort of overlapping [clears throat] interest. We have a member on our council who's on a nonprofit board and so things like that come up. Any questions? It's also in our rules of procedure for the city council bonds. Um [clears throat] this um this is a lot of words um in the way of saying that the city um risk and litigation manager reaches out to the league and buys a blanket bond for our officers um and the city pays for it. Uh it's essentially um a performance of performance bond that you're going to lawfully perform your duties of your job. Um the law allows that the city can pay for it. The very bottom the premium and um did a bunch of research with our um uh risk and litigation manager confirming that um that we're all we're meeting the proper requirements of this. And um we have a million dollars in coverage with a $50,000 deductible. Any questions on that? And the council approves each [clears throat] year when um when that budget is brought to the to the board. >> I'm curious that the the phrase not inconsistent with this charter. Uh how it it is it possible for the charter to be inconsistent with the laws of the state? >> Yes. Are you talking about the official bonds? Where does it say that in the city? >> Okay, last sentence. >> Incentives. >> It's used. >> Oh, yes. >> Used elsewhere, too. >> Yeah, we're going to see that in a subsequent slide. Can we talk about it on the subsequent slide? >> Okay. Yep. So, there I I'll just give you a preview. There are things that are in our charter that are also in state law and um and so you have to remedy those potential conflicts um and decide what is what the charter city has to abide by. Any other questions? All right, next slide. So sales of real property um in the city when um in the city um by this charter provision when the city wants to sell land we have to sell it by ordinance which means notice um public hearing uh and whatnot. It has to be done by ordinance. So there's a fair amount more process involved. Um similarly this provision requires that the proceeds of that sale have to retire any debt. Um and if there is no out outstanding debt then the council can designate by resolution where to put that money those proceeds. >> Is there um a commission involved in like in a usual uh sale? >> Commission chair members I'm not understanding a commission >> a real estate agent. >> Oh a commission. See [clears throat] um chair members um when the city sells real estate what we um what we real property or when we buy real property we typically work with uh an outside not always but we often work with an outside law firm because they have real estate parallegals um which we don't have in house here. Um so they will they will handle the [clears throat] actual closing for us and prepare all the closing statements. Uh and if there is a commission involved that is addressed in the purchase agreement or the sale agreement. Um and you know it's a part of the negotiated transaction. Well, I see that the the sale is not one of the things the city can use before they allocate it to something else. >> Right. They have to pay you have to use the proceeds to pay for any debt. Yeah. >> Yeah. But I I'll note that I'm not We don't sell property very often. Um more in the business of buying it. >> There's a there's an example I've seen in the past though where [clears throat] the city as part of like a street improvement project acquired some land for like a turn lane and the shape of the piece of land that they acquired, you know, they needed part of it. there was a parcel that they could buy, but they needed part of it. And they ended up cutting a deal with the neighbor of that parcel to kind of sell that parcel to the neighbor. And that would be a good example of where you would if if that parcel was bought out of like that payment management program bonding that we talked about before. If it was bonded for, then it would have to go to pay back those bonds first prior to prior to just spending the money on something else. >> Sell it. >> Yeah. If you didn't do that, any other questions slide vacation. Um this is you should think of this not as a trip but as a as the term vacate. Um which uh so means like give up. Um, so this requires um that if the council wants to vacate um a uh basically public roads or a street alley, they have to do it by ordinance and they have to have at least five members of the council vote on it. They have to have public notice and a public hearing. Uh and they have to file the um completion of the proceedings have to be filed with the county. But what what is important for you to know is that there's state law on vacation as well and that the state law um has just a majority requirement um when it's petitioned by property owners and no petition it's a four fifths requirement. So um and then the other thing is that state law um requires a resolution and we require an ordinance. So we have a higher level of procedure required um and and in some cases uh a higher vote requirement. Uh the other thing um that's in state law that we comply with uh and this is an example um uh Commissioner Barnes about how we blend together the requirements of state law with what our charter says. Uh so state law discusses um how how to handle a vacation that abuts uh public water and you have to notify the commissioner of DNR and some various other proceedings. So we comply with those as well as the requirements in our charter here. So we do it by ordinance. We always have at least five votes after notice, but then we also comply with this requirement in the additional state law. >> Not in conflict with ours. >> Sorry. Would this be like if if say like a house is on a culde-sac, they wanted to make it like a private street and then they would take care of the plowing or it be like a little private development like Lindel Bluffs over there by the on Lindale and what 107th or whatever. >> Um chair members, yes, that is an example. Um, very rarely does that happen where um, private property owners want their street to no longer be public because then they don't get plowing, they don't get pavement, they don't none of that stuff, sewer under the streets for nothing, but every now and then there's a request to do that where oftentimes it's because they are dissatisfied with something. How about if um if a city street normally maintained and plowed and so forth by Bloomington becomes more of a region or a county if that happens. Where's that all been? >> Um chair members plowing is in a different category. This is this is about um ownership. >> No. Um okay. So let let's say like Lindale was a we talk about that being a county road. I was kind of referring to It's still a city any street that um I was just trying to think of another example of where this might be used or where happen. So I was curious if when a road be >> goes from >> um being referred to as a Bloomington street versus a county street or is a county thing really more in terms of uh not ownership, it's maintenance or whatnot? Yeah, chair members that's not quite the um the right example um for this particular process here. Uh the most common uh time I see vacations are sidewalks um and drainage and utility easements. So like for example, when lot lines change, the drainage and utility easements typically follow the lot lines. And so if the lot lines are changing, they vacate [clears throat] the existing drainage and utility easements. they replat and then you've got new drainage and utility easements because they move all that stuff when they redo they reuse the plan. That's the most classic. >> Okay. So, I'll give you an example [clears throat] of of a kind of like a straight vacation that would likely happen when it all happens. So, if you think about the corner of 94th in Lindale on the southwest corner, you have the tire place and then you have the auto zone and to the west of that is the Ziggler property. Okay. In between those two businesses and Ziggler, there's a little tiny half street that's called Aldridge Avenue there. And if somebody came along and acquired both of those parcels along there, um, and maybe a couple more down Windendale um, and wanted to make one development, they could probably come to the city and say, "Hey, we would like that to be vacated." or if Ziggler came for example and come back >> it's not a it's [clears throat] not a for real street I mean it's a street but it's >> at one time >> Bloomington the narrowest street that >> yeah that's an example of something where you know if people are doing redevelopment a lot of times you combining stuff together and the street doesn't make sense anymore >> chair chair members that's a very classic example you see that a lot in communities that are under going through sort of a uh a revitalization and they'll have a lot of small lots and you'll have lot combinations and then there'll be these excess roads. Um and there's a whole body of law where you go and look at the plat um when it was originally recorded and to figure out you split down the center line and half gets and there's a whole body of law that said if you're edit the edge of the plat and >> who gets which half. >> Yeah. Yeah. Bron knows about what I'm talking about. Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm done. Yeah. Any other questions? >> Well, here's let me let me ask you this. I think about this and you talked about how this has a higher kind of bar for vacating streets. The thing I'm trying to figure out is why do we bother having a higher bar? I'm just trying to figure out why that would be. So, chair and members, um it's because you're giving away rights that the city has. When you often see this in the law, when the city is giving away something that it that it has, um the right to. So, for example, the the the legal test, the finding that you have to have is that it's in the public interest. And so um that is that when when the city is giving away something um or it's otherwise shifting responsibility to away from itself, you'll see a higher level of responsibility. So, for example, um with the petition um when like the whole the surrounding property owners say we want you we want to vacate it, there's a lower requirement because the public is saying we want this whereas if the city is coming in and saying we're going to vacate, we're going to get rid of this. There's a higher burden. >> Okay, cool. Any other questions on this? >> All right, next slides. I think we're on six 609 Adrian or excuse me 1209. >> All right. I want to just know for the record chair um that Cynthia has arrived. >> You hearing us Cynthia? >> Cynthia Commissioner Hunt has arrived. >> You're muted though, so we're not hearing you. >> Muted herself. >> You want to unmute yourself, Commissioner? there. Sorry about that. It took a while to figure out this version of uh is different from other teams versions. [laughter] >> Oh. Oh, >> the government version. >> The government teams. [laughter] >> Sorry about that. >> Um 12.09. We're on page 46 of the PowerPoint. Um so this is uh similar to what we were talking about before there. Um chair members, there are general laws that are applicable to all cities. For example, we talked about election law like the general election is on this date. Um and so we all have to follow those requirements and um the and the charter a city charter can can also speak to all kinds of issues, all kinds of topics. Um and um and it can't be it has when there are remedy or when there are inconsistencies they have to be remedied um legally and otherwise. So if state law is silent on an issue then the charter can surely speak to that issue. Um, but if the charter and state law are speaking to the same issue, then you have to unpack it and make sure that the state law hasn't tried to preempt any law in that area. Um, and if you can try to read the two as both being possible to meet the requirements of both. So, we regularly have to engage in that process. Some excuse me, sometimes the law will specifically state law will specifically say that cities are allowed to take further actions more um spec more um can adopt more regulations. The one that most commonly comes to my mind is dangerous dog. state law has all kinds of regulations on dangerous dogs and it specifically says that cities can take more um I can't remember the term a rigorous um enforcement um beyond what's in state law. So that would be an example where we could for example pass a charter provision or an ordinance or something that went much further. >> Okay, any other questions? All right. Next, this is um leftover from it said, you know, everything that was in place when um that wasn't inconsistent with the charter when they adopted it is still in force. Um I don't have much more background on this other than like the law that was there before is still in place even though they adopted a charter midway through. All right. Um, chapter or excuse me, section 1213, the council must make regulations by ordinance. Uh, so you'll see um examples of us acting by ordinance. You've heard about a couple of them tonight. Um, you'll look at our city code that contains all the ordinance. Ordinance is like a local law. So, our city code is made up of ordinances. And this is saying that when the council wants to pass laws, it has to do it by ordinance. Questions? All right, rolling right along. Adrian, uh 1214 fines and penalties. Um this is saying that um all the fines, penalties, forfeertures um from any violation of an ordinance in the city code are paid into the treasury, the city treasury, the city and you you heard a lot about those funds last last week. >> Does uh Mr. Uh, does make return make sense. >> Seems like an odd way to say that. >> Yeah, it does. >> I think I should add that one. If you're okay with that, chair, members, add this to the list of things to just clarify. I agree that's an odd turn of phrase. I >> think what that's trying to say is like that's supposed to be deposited with this have to pay [clears throat] within 30 days I think is what they mean but it's hard to understand >> it to somebody that >> hold on to and are the duplicate receipts for the deposit >> so you can give one to >> yeah like I paid >> yeah so if you think about it back before you know in 2004 people were coming to the the finance department with their Right. But the the subject of that sentence is that every quarter officer is entitled to duplicate receipts. >> How can the officer be entitled to duplicate? Wouldn't it be the person paying the fines? Who gets the receipts? Again, right, [laughter] not really relevant these days, >> right? Not really relevant. I know just as an aside chair members um for the longest time before docy sign and electronic signatures you would sign two copies of everything for real estate transactions and whatnot you'd be signing and all of our signature slant lines would say you know that we executed in duplicate well we don't do that anymore so we've been like >> yeah intentionally removing that over the years but I will work with our finance department to update this to make it more current this one didn't this one didn't flag for them so that makes me think that we should um make it more clear, more clarify the language because it makes sense to them. So I want to make sure yeah it's more readable >> because it would be the because as I the first sentence so the officer is so the the fines have to be paid into the city treasury. So a clerk gets the fine then they bring it to the city treasury and get the double receipts. But I guess again doesn't matter. >> Yeah, I think it probably just >> trying to figure it out. Yeah, that's probably what was happening in 2000 when it was one building. >> Yeah, but I'll follow up on that. Um, since we're in this area, I think the other thing is this really because because this this existed in the original charter based on the way that that footnote is written and I suspect based on the antique language, it goes back into antiquity. Um, one thing I'm thinking about is do we want to be more directive about saying that someone needs to designate where like fines go to? Like for example, like I if you read this and you thought about like the 1930s or 1940s, you know, you might have gotten pulled over. I'm going to pick on you pulled over. >> It's like the the fine is $20. You can just pay right now, >> right? >> Here's your duplicate receipt, right? >> You know, and I'll take the $20 and I'll bring it back and I'll put it in the treasury. [laughter] Okay. Um but I think nowadays that doesn't make sense and and I think for this sort of thing what I what I think would be a useful addition to this would be to have the you know impose on the council the obligation to say they need to designate some one or more people to receive receive these payments >> so it's not so it's not like some police officer deciding I can collect fines >> right [clears throat] and um chair members in reality all of that money when it comes in goes to the treasury. So even our even our um like our funds that we get [clears throat] from Henipin County, they go into the general fund. >> Um so it's a >> I'm just suggesting naming who are the that the council should should affirmatively name who are the people who are authorized to files. >> Right. And chair members, you see that in other places in the charter as well where we specifically name somebody as having a role. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Take care of that. We'll bring it back in April. All righty. Um and then uh 215, this is civil penalties. Um without getting too into the weeds, um we charter cities have the have given themselves the many charter cities have given themselves the authority to issue civil penalties. Uh and this is the framework by which the city of Bloomington has decided to do that. So essentially what this means is that where there are violations of our ordinances, uh our certain people in our city code, certain positions in our city code have been authorized to issue fines for violations of the of our city code up to $2,000. Uh, and it also provides in here that there's a procedure for having essentially challenge it. Um, and we have all of that procedure in our city code. We have um an administrative hearing. We have um other uh appallet levels um where people can uh meaningful conversation about how to remedy or address the underlying causes of the non-compliance. Uh and those are handled in our city attorney's office and by uh an outside hearing officer that we have under contract um independent hearing officer. That's all unpacked in our city code. And then this second section, subdivision two, um authorizes assessments after reasonable notice and an attempt to seek voluntary payment um the property the charges can be assessed to the property. So you'll see that at the very end of the year um that process and we have a very the council passes a calendar of the cadence of this. Um and there's also another set of opportunities for people to appeal. They happen um with an independent hearing officer down in the Dakota conference room. uh and um [clears throat] and folks get yet another opportunity to try to remedy the situation or pay or um there's a handful of repeating reasons why people um don't pay and it gets to that assessment level. So, we try to tackle what those are. And then I will just offer that if we're seeing repeating violations going back to even the subdivision one time period um and Adrian's familiar with this as well, we flag those. There were there's like three or four repeating violations that we see overwhelmingly uh overwhelming majority of relative to the other citations. And so we have raised that up to the relevant departments that are most directly related to those violations and and they add them to their work plan and they're systematically analyzing whether our code requirements are out of step with the times. Um, so it might not be always the most obvious sort of at a high level when you're looking at a work plan, but just to for you all to know that that's what's happening um behind the scenes when we're seeing there's like two or three specific citations that are very much repeating. Um, and so we've raised those and in those two instances I'm thinking of community development. they're analyzing them um and they're on their work plan to to potentially uh bring to the city council to change the law. Um so just a sense of like what their process is internally. Uh similarly if um this is a little off topic but just since we're talking about it similarly if we notice that there's a lot of repeating um requests for variances or other like uh repeaters or people are repeatedly asking for a change of circumstance for a particular requirement or a code. that's a flag to staff um to to ask do we need to change our code? So just to know that that kind of analysis is happening at the staff level to make sure that our our codes continue to be relevant. >> Can you give a couple of examples of do you know of any off the top of your >> um chair members? the the one that comes up with some frequency is that comes to mind is um parking of vehicles um and the quantity of vehicles that are parked um per household. That's one that comes up with some frequency. Um and so unpacking what are the causes of the quantity of vehicles? Um what is giving rise to um like why doesn't it work when it you know what's changed in our in our housing community that this no longer is working um under our code. Um what is giving rise to the quantity of unlicensed or expired tab vehicles? Why are they sitting there for so long? Um, so things like that, but there's a lot of dirt vehicle situations. >> I imagine utility trailers and RV. >> That's the whole thing. >> That's another one. >> Got a park in your backyard. >> Or um work trucks. Um, >> yeah, that's another one that we've raised up. Um, so I think historically, you know, someone would drive their work vehicle home and it was a sedan. Um, and you wouldn't know any difference. Um, and so now we're hearing from folks that whose work van is not a a sedan, it's a it's a commercial vehicle. uh and um trying to figure out a way to manage you know to modernize the interpretation and address sort of where the disconnect is. >> Any other questions? [clears throat] My one thing on this that because now now we're getting to the to the charter changes that I remember happening. >> Yeah. >> Um this is this is one of the early ones 1996. Um the uh and so this is 30 years old at this point and that $2,000 number. You know the what I what I'm wondering if the commission is interested in is if we just adjust that for inflation or is there something above that that prevents that from getting bigger? >> So chair members I'd be happy to bring back more research to you in April on that dollar amount. um the the legal uh I don't want to know I don't think test is maybe the right word, but sort of the legal standard that comes into play is excessive fines. >> Yeah. >> So, for example, you could get a $2,000 fine for peeling paint. And would would that make sense to be a $5,000 fine for peeling paint? >> Well, wouldn't that be the council's decision to decide that? I mean, that the council doesn't have to adopt an ordinance that sets the fine at the maximum number. uh chair members, uh it's in it's uh the the max that's in here is repeated in in uh in city code. There's a schedule that's used. Um but I'm not familiar. I I will do the analysis, but I'm not familiar with any other city that has more than 2,000. And I believe that there's some case law on that. >> Okay. >> But I can bring it back in April. >> Yeah. And I just, you know, keeping that at the same economic level, adjusting for 30 years. Um, >> yeah, >> seems like it makes sense, but if there's some reason not to do that, I'm, you know, I don't feel strongly enough about it to go fight it. But >> all righty, >> any other questions. Okay? >> See, those of you who have been around probably know why this is here. Um so um the city took a couple trips to the uh Minnesota Supreme Court and the result of one of those experiences was that we um needed to adopt a a charter amendment um and we did some analysis about where it should go and we concluded it should go in this chapter. So, it's here [clears throat] [laughter] and that's the long and the short of it. >> That's the history. >> Any questions? >> Should it stay unless first approved by a board majority of >> yes, >> Bloomington voters in a state general election? >> Um, >> something. Uh, chair members, I would say that I would be I would have to do a fair amount of research um to remind myself why we have this specific language other than that I believe that it was as a result of the litigation. So, I would not be inclined >> to change it. I think that's what questions. >> Anyone would like to know more about all of that, I can direct you to some some current articles really that I have saved and I know exactly where they are right now. Uh because I'm cleaning some cabinets. Um anything else? All right. Chair, do you want to move on to chapter five? These couple issues with chapter five. >> I think we can time to do it. >> Okay. Um so um um Chair Peterson and I talked about this um wanted to just make you aware of something um that came to light and we have a an idea about how to remedy it and wanted to just get your feedback. Um, so a couple of months ago, the League of Minnesota Cities, which is sort of the trade organization for all Minnesota, well, not all Minnesota, but many, many, many Minnesota cities, um, issu they issueformational memos, um, sort of like a, hey, um, don't forget about this law, this new law, or we've noticed this happening, etc. Um so they issued anformational memo about petitions specifically cities that have sample petitions in their charters and um about how Minnesota rules has so let me back up and say you've got the constitution you've got state statutes which are laws and then you've got Minnesota rules which are administrative code um so Minnesota rules um which interprets Minnesota state law um contains a very long list of things that need to be in a petition. And so I've just listed them here. Um and in our sample petition, it's not um it's not inaccurate, but Chair Peterson and I were talking about would it lead to potential confusion? Is there a way to remedy the confusion? because the point of having that box in the charter is to help people um and given so for example our our petition says print name [laughter] print your name and the rules say first middle and last so um there's a potential you know ability for somebody to not comply with this because they didn't put their middle name. Um, similarly, we have address and we don't say city and county, right? Because everybody has to be in Bloomington and everybody has to be in Henipin County. And so that could create some ambiguity um when we're analyzing whether somebody has met the petition requirements. So the chair and I discussed this. Adrian, you want to go to the next one? Here is the language from you see under subp part two. Um so let me back up and say in Minnesota rules you have parts and then subp parts as opposed to sections and subsections. So you've got subp part two you've got all these requirements for the petition for every petition all these requirements. So, you know, many many of these are in our charter, but not all of them. Like, we don't we don't say it has to be an 8 and 1/2 by four, you know, it can't be bigger than 8 and 1 half and 14. Um, in some states, just as an aside, it says it has to be all on one sheet of paper. So, people buy >> a roll of paper and carry it from house to house. So just as an example, um, so these are all the the listed requirements in Minnesota rules. You want to flip to the next one? [cough] So here are our example [clears throat] petitions in our charter. And while they're not inconsistent with Minnesota rules, they're sort of like part of the story, part of it. And so the chair and I were talking about is there could we do this in a way that would be more helpful for someone who's trying to do it right as opposed to somebody going and collecting a whole bunch of signatures and then coming to the city clerk and then we have to unfortunately tell them that the overwhelming majority of their signatures don't comply because they didn't ask for someone's middle name. So the chair and I came up with some ideas and this is my this is what they are. Remove the boxes and then amend the these three sections of the charter that refer to the petition these sample petitions and direct the city clerk to provide essentially a model um and maintain the roles. And so if someone came, we would have an actual model that somebody could use that would set all of this out and then not have to fit because frankly what they do is they they go this way on the paper. Um because that's that's really the practical way you can fit everything. And our charter is I mean it's just simple this. So we're squeezing all of this stuff onto this way when it's only ever going to be this way. Um, and so it just ends up being less helpful and I think potentially creates confusion when, as I understand, one of your objectives is to increase the confusion. So, do you want to pop to the next slide? So, here is what that would look like. I couldn't get I'll I'll get the actual box to show, but essentially you see here it's removing the text that's inside that box. and then up at the top say each signature page must comply with Minnesota rules and the city clerk must maintain a sample petition for the public. And so in talking with the city clerk, we talked about how we have mockup and then a copy of the rules and a copy of, you know, the salient charter section. And then people would be potentially more able to tackle the ask >> if they ask first. >> If they ask first. Yeah. >> But at least this would direct them to go and get it, >> right? as opposed to trying it on their own. Um, so we did we made this edit to 55 511. Next slide. Um, and five 16. So what are your thoughts on that? [clears throat] open up one other thing that that when we talked but I think this had already been kind of maybe gone out a little bit and and didn't get captured in this which was that we had added the >> email and telephone >> email address and the telephone from the for the people who are generating the petition and this doesn't this doesn't maintain that >> it doesn't maintain that but we could put that on our sample >> yeah form >> and I think yeah I don't know that that I just want to point that out because I think We had we had said because it was helpful for the city clerk city >> clerk clarification >> solves by putting that on the form [clears throat] >> would a sample petition be available on the website that they could download or just at the district's office here? >> Um I guess we uh chair members I guess we could put it on the on the website. It does require specific text to be inserted into it. Um so we wouldn't be we would do a PDF. it would have to be a word document. Um, we're not we're not doing PDFs really anyway in the future anyway because of the new ADA requirements. So, >> um, but we could potentially do that. Yeah. >> Any other comments or questions on this? >> Makes sense. >> Makes sense. That way I'd have to put it all in here. >> Yeah, it seems and change and so I'm hearing that I should bring this back in April. Yeah. Okay. All righty. Okay. And then I think we just got a little bit left. Um slide 59. This is just a reminder about how the the charter can be amended. There are these sort of two pathways. And in talking with um the chair, we were of the opinion a month ago um that these edits all probably have a recommended pathway of this what I have down here at the bottom which is you all make a recommendation, you pass a resolution and bring that to the city council and then the city council would have to act by ordinance unanimously after a public hearing. um all seven votes of all seven members of the council would be required and then we we publish it and then it can technically be um subject to an election and but if there's no call for an election then it passes 90 days later and becomes effective. So, if we're if we're teeing these things up for April, um it would be looking at sort of a summer effective time period. >> Nobody objects. >> If nobody objects, >> right, >> it's a $90,000 objection. >> See the small print in the paper. >> Yeah. Well, there Yeah. Yeah. There's very Yeah. So, any thoughts on that process? we need to like call out the like a municipal election just because like there's several different kinds of elections. >> Well, I think in the law it says it's a special election. >> So, we have to do the math and find out figure out if we can h hold it at a a pre-existing election date which are preferred which is >> right less expensive much less expensive than people in you know the 80 people that will show up to vote on this. Right. I don't I don't think there's anything in here that's going to get anybody worked up. >> I don't know who's going to go knock on doors in order to get signatures on a reverse referendum petition to stop what we're talking about. There's nothing in there that's >> never [laughter] true. >> People got, you know, people got to, you know, >> I'll never say never, but it's just >> Yeah. I mean, they're overwhelmingly uh clarifying edits. >> Yeah. >> So, I would be optimistic, but never assume. >> All right. So, next slide. This was just me providing the process to you if you need it. Um, so we don't I don't know. I'm not hearing that we need it. >> And so, we would come back. We can we we can skip to the next one. We would come back um with amendments in April. I think Adrian already sent out a calendar invite for April 16th. Um I would suspect we could get through all of these on April 16th. Um and if there's any um any uh more work that needs to be done on the amendments, I would defer to you all at that meeting as to whether or not you wanted to come back on the 23rd or if you want to do it at the annual meeting in May because it's really close together. Sure. All righty. Anything else, chair? >> I don't know. Anything else for the meeting today? Nothing. I will um entertain a motion to adjurnn the meeting. Second by Merz, seconded by Thorson. You'll >> have to have a call. Yeah. >> Not debatable. Please call the role. >> [clears throat] >> still not present. >> John Eagle. >> Iman. >> Hi. >> Cynthia Hunt. >> Hi. >> I Ron Landell. >> Hi. >> I Karen Lquist. >> Hi. >> I Masuj. >> Hi. >> I McGovern. >> Hi. I >> Oriho present >> Steve Peterson. >> I Michael Ramirez. >> Hi, >> Thorson. >> I >> that's uh motion passes unan unanimously. >> All righty, we're done. ready so much and maybe there's a reason why this again I if I want recognition I raise my hand we're in a discussion like this I think it's we can be pretty laidback but I don't >> maybe only when it's a public public invited >> yeah I So my this is just a style thing on my part is that