All right, it is 5:45 and we actually have a quorum tonight. So, we're going to call our council listening session to order. Tonight is Monday, December 8th and as I said, this is our listening session. We had four people call ahead. I see I think two of them. Dratlet uh and Pam Palmer. Uh Fasil Hail don't see here and Dr. Karen Willis. I don't see Dr. Karen Willis either. So uh right now we've got we'll we'll get you two and see if those two show up. And if uh if they don't, we'll then uh Andy, if you wanted to talk, we could fit you. We could find time for you as well. But um we can make this work. So, what we're going to do, uh, why don't we why don't we start at like I don't know 7 8 minutes and just in case folks do show up, but why don't we do that? >> I got a I got a set thing and it'll be cut off and if it there's extra time other people can have it. >> Identify yourself for the record. Off you go. >> Awesome. My name is Matthew Howlet. I'm here to speak about the Nick uh bike infrastructure and unfortunately counselor the counselor that I uh picked on last week isn't here today, but I'd like to thank him anyway for speaking with me afterwards. today is you, Councelor Lman. Uh, your opponent got uh within 170 votes of unseeding you by proposing we actually invest in climate resiliency and affordability by funding sustainability with a lodging fee on incoming tourists visiting the mall. As the airport consumes enough jet fuel to burn down the entire boundary waters on an annual basis from domestic flights alone, the simple progressive mechanism of recapturing wealth is uh that is otherwise funneled out of the city. There are current there is currently only an eight vote difference between public preference on two visions of Nichollet Avenue. I figure that I believe residents on Nicllet Avenue didn't have all the facts when they voted. critical information that if withheld in light of crushing unaffordability, rising taxes, easily could easily sway the opinion of someone who otherwise thought they were just going to lose up to 12 feet of their yard rather than gain equity both immediately in the form of a large direct payment and the best pedestrian infrastructure this side of 494. That could be how East Bloomington achieves parody with the West. This opportunity stands as the best intergenerational equity will get on Niquit for 70 years and serves as a crossroads as to how all future equity in this area will be built. A fact I think not lost on 82% of students surveyed at Kennedy High want the dedicated lane option. After speaking with the county myself, it is clear that the recommendation is myopic. They had totally ignored how this project may impact others down the line and how dedicated bike and pedestrian lanes set the mood for not just how this project but all all future projects in East Bloomington. The same is true with the roundabouts and the other traffic calming features which are not present at all in the in the current proposals which suggests that we will be locked into a car centric vision of the city while the planet burns around us. They made all their observations on current rates of usage, admitting that it was not optimal due to the state of infrastructure and had no consideration whatsoever for the connecting infrastructure that have impacted its use. There is no consideration of increasing density or connections to redevelopment of American Boulevard or Linda, which are both future projects, nor how future students living on either of these places will be able to get to Kennedy High, especially without a car. The county also didn't have the ability to deserve how we as a city treat pedestrian transit even in the west. Even our best mixed use paths in West Bloomington on Normanddale and France Avenue are hamstrung by the lack of coordination between road and path clearing when not delay when not delayed by six days as the boardwalk on France was last week for me. The city clears the mixeduse path only for the roads to plow or come back and plow through and bury it up into six inches of Kafka-esque muck. Why would anyone make the investment towards an alternative transit when the reality on the ground is an aggregate of institutional infrastructural barriers? So I think it's more than unfair to try and make such a claim that the bike and pedestrian volume to justify everything from dedicating bike lanes to roundabouts and all the all the rest wasn't observed and nicllet when even our current best comes second rate to cars. It takes a special kind of circular logic to keep justifying away the clear turn we need to make to get out of the system designed to suppress alternative transit. A lesson these roundabouts would teach us. Sadly completely absent from both designs. Thank you. Council, any questions? Council >> member Delisandro. >> Uh, just making sure that this um, so thank you, Ma Matthew. I think you've given us a a decent amount of information and I, you know, I I want to first off, I want to just double check we're this is not these these claims are not finished yet. we are still in the study stages and things like that and we have the opportunity to talk to Debbie Goautell and other folks about the opportunities that are available to us. So not losing any hope on this one. Um I you know I I think that um my question to you would be that um I I know of studies through smart towns and other organizations that that's you know there's a guy named the transit guy who does really good work um on on how to do this. What what has been what has been your interaction specifically with Henipin County that um I mean you did some conclusions but I'm curious just like what what have been the patterns of communication that you've had to date with them? >> Sure. I went to um one of the meetings at NICLD at the firehouse uh early on. and I couldn't make it to some of the other ones. And then after the recommendation made to the city, I called the project manager and had two conversations with her. And um you know, she's coming from a point of uh you know, she's an engineer and she's really focused on the here and now of what the plan is and she made the recommendation with the knowledge that she had, but she wasn't and she admitted to me she wasn't looking at the other things that I brought up. >> Yeah. the two convers and that happened when >> the last week. >> Any additional questions? >> All right. Thank you much. >> Pam. >> Hi, I'm Pam Palmer and I have a couple of issues I want to discuss tonight. One is the commercial vehicles. you guys talked about it September, I think it was. How are we in December already? And then the planning commission did. So, I was listening to different ones of those and I don't know when it's coming back here again, but I worry that part of the argument is the vehicles are getting bigger, so the current codes would exclude a lot of current vehicles. That's true. But that means we're going to have bigger things sitting around in yards and also that more people are working. I mean, the whole work environment has changed immensely. >> So, more of them at home. Yuck. We're going to suddenly have an industrial parking lot up and down our neighborhoods. As far as parking in the streets, I've been told by envir environmental those get reported to the police, but I think they have to be there for a certain amount of time and you and I don't sit there. >> Okay. >> Did they move it? So, it's hard to get them. But there's this uh I sent you guys the an email that picture of that uh I don't even know what you call it. that big thing in front of a truck that's been there for months and hasn't moved. So, um, and I'm disappointed that I know there are residents whether it's parking or uh what they do in their yard and I know S said he was a libertarian on this and I'm clearly not. Um, you it's your yard. You can do what you want. We live in a community and especially when it's a we're a city now. We're a pretty big city. You what you do in Iraq affects your neighbors a lot. I have a friend who now lives up in Brainer Lakes. Well, nobody really cares what she's parked in her driveway, you know, when it's a mile away. So, I think we have to be Everybody wants more people in the city, but it affects people. Um Yeah. And so you can't just do what you want in your yard. You can't open up a business. You can't park in the yards, although some people do. Um it all affects the visual clutter and and safety of a neighborhood. Like I said, that beautiful park down the street, which um and Zach, that was just interesting, your little thing in tonight's thing about the HA. Frankly, I don't know much about HRE, but then when I see that environmental told me that they're finding the guy because they can't move that big vehicle. Well, if I understood what I just read tonight that Zach had written, Char houses don't have property taxes, and that's usually where a lot of fines you end up eventually paying if you don't pay things. So, I don't know how you get after people that I'm not doing it. I'm not paying a fine. I'm leaving it here. It's and it's isn't you're not even the owner. You know what I mean? He's a renter. So, um that bothers me. And then across from my sister's house, there's all kinds of car. There was some Hamilton County puck that has talked there for a long time. and then this stump sky when you've got the pl especially in the winter with the plows going around you've got that field and stuff. So we just really plead for you guys to have some common sense and courtesy for the community when you get to the the commercial vehicles and um how they're going to be enforced, you know. Yes, the world has changed. And you were the one I think that said, you know, as far as I'm not sure, maybe it was Tom about, okay, if that's your vehicle and you go home, do you there? Maybe it was you. That's a different thing kind of to me than h it's always here. It never moves. Or you have there's a house down the street from me that who knows how many people are living in that house, but they have like four in the backyard. It's just a mess and it's nonsense. Some don't care, but I do. The other thing is a shorter thing and I kind of like a response. Yeah. >> Uh the trash removal. I don't throw away a lot. I mean, I do feel cheated that I pay for every week. So, the idea of going to every other week would be I might get by with once a month. I mean, I just don't have a lot. And I don't even do organics yet. I've got to get on that band even. My sister has, so she's unfurled teach me. But we only save $3.31 by going every other week. It should be half of it. You know, I don't know how does an I'd be curious how that puny amount that certainly is not an incentive. And from neighbors that I've talked to, they're like, "Well, for the holidays or something that's coming up, I don't want to go to half every other week. That $3 doesn't make much difference." So, those are my two thing. and did the garbage companies win by such a pathetic >> uh thanks for your comments. What I think it probably was I know that uh uh the solid waste folks worked on they worked with uh a consultant to come up with the balanced cost what what this would all cost. They still have to cover costs. You you can't give it away. You still got to cover costs. You've got to make it uh as beneficial as possible to try and encourage people to do it. But at the same time, there is that that balance of making sure that it it we we we still at least collect enough to cover the cost that we have associated with it. And you know, three bucks a week, it's 150 bucks a year. I don't know if that's worth it or not for you, but it's uh it it's it's something. And we've heard it from a lot of people. They want to go to the other every other week. And it's our our putting our toe into that and seeing how it's going to work out. >> Well, it'll be interesting to see how how it does. what sometime I even want to write a column about it is the whole first of the month pickup thing you know that I hardly see anybody taking advantage of that and I don't know how many even are aware of it to someday try to get that out there but um being we don't only do that at sickup once every other year now um except I think those things are supposed to be for recycle not like junk junk and by the time I get rid of it. It's a goner. So, nobody ad. >> Thanks. >> All right. Thank you. >> Dr. Willis, did I see you walk in? >> Good evening. If you could identify yourself for the record. And um we're giving every speaker about uh seven, eight minutes here. make sure everybody has an opportunity. >> Excellent. Thank you, Andrew. Anyway, um >> so hi, my name is Karen Wills, Dr. Karen Wills, and I'm using my title in this context because I am a licensed clinical psychologist. I worked at Children's Hospital for about 20 years. That is part of the impetus for what I want to share tonight. Um, and for the sake of brevity, I'm just going to read uh this into the record. To the mayor and council members, esteemed council members of the Bloomington City Council. My grandparents immigrated to this country from Scotland and Ireland, fleeing evictions or famine. In those days, the paperwork for citizenship was pretty simple and inexpensive. They were welcomed by our American government, even if some neighbors treated them contemptuously when they spoke Gaelic instead of English. Now, as we all know, the paperwork for citizenship is astronomically expensive, slow, and very complicated. And the current federal administration is treating recent immigrants and refugees as subhuman. Now, last year I was very proud to see the videos that were posted in English and Spanish by Bloomington's police chief, Booker Hodgeges, stating that immigrant communities were welcome here in some detail and stating how the police would defend the constitutional rights of every resident of Bloomington, citizen or not. I even bragged about that to people outside this town. Therefore, it was a shock to hear his video statement last week and to see the letter that came from the city council. Very, very disappointing. That letter disseminated the concept that Bloomington police are eagerly standing by, ready to run to the aid of federal agents who are dressing up in riot gear, masks, and unidentifiable clothing, who are armed with the heavy rubber bullet weapons, which leaves severe bruises on people's faces and groin areas, and put out a journalist's eye. just a few years ago here in our state as well as chemical weapons they are carrying which are very dangerous to inhale. Those agents are hastily recruited, poorly trained and very aggressive towards people like me who are unarmed, nonviolent, showing up in faithful witness to observe them violating due process and kidnapping our neighbors, co-workers, caregivers, friends and family. Federal agents are not the ones at risk, ladies and gentlemen. Um, they are not at risk. Bloomington police exist to protect public safety for everyone, including non-citizens, refugees, and citizens. And not merely because every single one of those communities contribute tax dollars that support police salaries. So you all and Chief Hodgeges should clarify in no uncertain terms that even if you cannot protect every Bloomington resident from these harmful assaults, you do not condone our city being terrorized by federal agents who are out of control. And when they call upon you, when those agents call upon you for your help, when they call upon Bloomington police for their help and for their assistance in suppressing unarmed nonviolent protest, you will not elude. >> Thank you. >> Are there any questions? >> Thank you, Dr. Wills. Um, just to be clear, I I the statement from the chief and the statement that was released made it clear that federal officers were here to do immigration work. Bloomington officers do Bloomington work. Bloomington officers were not assisting. They will not assist. That is not their job. Their job is to to keep Bloomington safe. if uh if safety becomes compromised during one of their actions, Bloomington police will help maintain safety and keep everybody safe. But I I don't think to characterize Bloomington police ready to to rush to the assistance of ICE agents is correct. And it uh it never has been. And I think that was made pretty clear in terms of uh what the chief said and what was written. >> With respect, Mr. Mayor, I would encourage all of you to listen to that video again. Listen to what he said. Listen to how he said it. It is true that in that video, the statement was made that Bloomington police don't have the authority to arrest and prosecute undocumented people here for being undocumented. That's a fact. We did say that. But the sorry, the better part of that video is the repeated statement reiterated over and over reassuring federal agents that Bloomington police will come to their protection, will protect them. There was no statement made that Bloomington police will protect people who are showing up to observe their unconstitutional behavior and to video record it. People whose video cameras are being illegally constituted, I illegally confiscated, pardon me. Um, so the the the the message that went out, you know, you're an expert in communications, Mr. Mayor. I know this. you understand framing and messaging and I have to tell you right now the frame and the message was colluding in the false narrative that it is constitutional observers, legal observers, nonviolent peaceful protesters who are the problem and that these federal agents who are throwing people to the ground and smashing their faces into the icy sidewalks are the ones who require police protection and it is that very slanted message that was delivered very clearly and we all heard it and that needs correction. Thanks. Thank you for your input, doctor. Uh and I appreciate your perspective and thank you much. Uh the the other folk the other person we had sign up was Faze Ohio. No. All right. Uh, any of the late comers wish to speak at all? >> Andy motion to speak. >> Andy D, res here. I just wanted to um I got the messaging back from the staff about the safety concerns about traffic Portland and uh Nichollet and I just wanted to thank staff and the council um we're going to have some action on that section get some resolution maybe some signs but they don't know necessarily if that's going to fix the problem I guess or not you know I mean people sometimes run stop signs even in the and if yield signs. We know they're not going to work, but I just wanted to say thank to the the council and the and the staff for following up with me on that. Just a quick followup and another neighbor had wrote a letter too, you know, kind of out. So, I think the word is out those uncontrolled intersections are dangerous. You know, you guys have seen it. And the speed, it seems like the speed limit, I've talked about this before, but haven't really done a lowered speed limit, you know, in the city, but I'm just not seeing it. I mean, and I got friends that work for the city. They're not seeing it either. They drive around in the trucks and the stuff is just still fast out there. So hopefully some more enforcement, you know. Um so uh as far as the chief's messaging for for ICE and all that, I thought he did a fantastic job of deciphering just to keep their chief's job is to keep the community safe no matter what ICE is here or not. His job is to keep us all safe. So I thought his message was fantastic. >> Um one other thing I want to mention, I know we're a green city. We we make green initiatives, you know, in the city. And what I've kind of noticed, I've kind of done kind of a poll, but I've noticed gas prices are 20 to 30 cents cheaper outside of our city limits. So, I've noticed a lot of people, I don't know if anybody here in the council drives outside of the city limits to buy gas. And I know that this is I kind of looked into it. It's zone pricing is what it is, right? And it looks like it's from the petroleum companies. Is that correct? >> I I would assume so. Yes, >> it's called zone pricing, right? So, I don't know if the council can put together some kind of a initiative to kind of somehow get some better zone pricing because what I'm seeing right now when I talked to people, they're they're buying gas outside of our city limits, right? And not only are they buying gas outside city limits, they're buying groceries outside city limits, which taxes, you know, type deal. They're buying liquor, they're buying flavored tobacco, you know, outside of our city limit. So, and I'm sure some some people on this council are guilty. I I saw some nods saying, "Yeah, gas is 20 to 30 cents cheaper if we travel outside the city limits a little bit." But I don't know if there's anything the council can do as far as actions to try to keep us from driving our cars that burn fossil fuel typically, unless they're a hybrid or electric vehicle. Um, try to keep our traffic, you know, within the city. that does put wear and tear on our roads and it I kind of I want to encourage commerce, you know, inside of our city. So maybe Mary could weigh in on that. But >> my sense is uh when you talk about zone pricing, they're not charging the citizens of Bloomington that they're charging because of people coming through and driving past and to Bloomington. That's what they're doing. It's not it's not specifically to Bloomington because of Bloomington for the residents who live here. It's because of all the people who drive in and through the city. >> It's probably the the traffic flow, I think, and it's set by the petroleum companies. ours. I I did like a little just a search on the internet and I I don't know if there's a city as a city with green initiatives. I don't know if we can kind of leverage the petroleum companies and say, "Come on now." Like, you know what I'm saying? We're burning extra fuel, extra carbon emissions, right, are kind of going on and we're also losing tax revenue in that regard. So, but I I just don't know if this the city council can do anything. I know you guys have green initiatives, but and I know the the petroleum companies are powerful, you know. I mean, >> a free market guy like yourself, Andy, you're surprising, man. Come on. >> Yeah, but gosh, >> they're on the other side of the freeway, but a lot of people >> I like the free market, but boy, those those prices, like I said, you know, I can get >> I agree. You go south to the river and it's 30 degrees or 30 cents cheaper. It is people on the council are doing the same thing. I have an electric vehicle, so I'm just >> I honestly don't know that there's anything we we legally could do. I honestly don't know if there's anything we could do that the petroleum companies would even >> Maybe I'll have to I take my students on field trip over to Flint Hills refinery. So maybe I'll have to say what do here we take great take a tour of the refinery. It's kind of a cool tour. Yeah, >> but I just thought that green initiative, you know, and it wouldn't hurt to draft a letter to the big three or whoever these big petroleum companies are, but it'd be nice for the city to kind of say, "Hey, come on. Get the prices down the commerce." >> What's that? >> Supply and >> Yeah, of course. >> are very busy, so they sell >> They got the traffic flow. Exactly. Get the price. They're like, you know, >> that's exactly it. >> Yep. That's exactly what it is. But we do lose a lot of revenue out of the city. I'm just let you know a number a lot of revenue out of the city flies out because of gas prices. So just doing my little poll. >> Appreciate you bringing that forward. >> Thank you. >> All right. Thanks. >> Bye. >> Thanks for the nice words, too. >> We have three minutes left. Anybody else in the room want to speak? Got three minutes. You better hustle. >> It's all good in compliment. So >> coming in hot. >> Minus. Some of you knew maybe remember. Um, I just wanted to say on behalf of the neighbor, thank you because the traffic has been made a difference and I don't think you guys get enough credit city level all the way down. Um, just engineering, Amy and Kirk being helpful with the signage and showing us kind of what the options were. >> Y >> down to Derek and inspections. We had a sign put too far in property. We asked him to scoot it back on property line and that got done. Uh, I'm out of breath running up here. Um, congratulations to the winners and you get to be a citizen again. So that's awesome. 125 cars parking within eight months every night constantly all the way around. I think we got three tickets written in three months where before it was like 50. So thank you. Um, >> good to hear. Could you please repeat your name just so we have it officially? >> Rob, what's that? >> Thank you, Rob. Appreciate that. >> Yeah, thank you. for dashing in. >> Yeah, thank you. >> All right, councel. >> Unless there's anything else, I will look for a motion to adjurnn our listening session this evening. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Motion and a second to adjurnn tonight's listening session. All those in favor, please signify by saying I. >> I motion carries 70. And we will see you all downstairs at 6:30. Thanks.