"All right, we are now recording again. We are back in live session, open session. Uh it is now 601. Uh we we've talked about this a number a lot and I I want to get to a decision tonight. One way or another, let's move this forward so we can we can get on with the rest of our lives and start moving this forward and uh put this one behind us. Uh and from a practical standpoint, I think I think we need we need to get something in motion. Council member Malman, question. Not a question, just a comment. uh mayor, you know, I look at the this the uh city charter uh to kind of guide me uh in this process here and it really kind of talks about the types of training experiences and the administrative qualifications that are needed for appointment or selection of a city manager. At this point, I don't have the information from the process that we have to be able to make uh that u uh make a an informed decision. And so what I would suggest that either uh we produce a process that allows all of us to get on the same page with that or go down the traditional route that we have in the past where we have uh brought in a search committee and brought this all of the uh uh city manager candidates through that process. Um I just want a process that will work. Um, if we want to just go through a straight appointment, I need to be able to answer these questions that are that are in here that I think every elected person needs to needs to have before they uh appoint somebody uh to that role. Council member, other wishing to weigh in here. I mean, I I would echo a lot of what Council Member Lman said. Uh I I go back to the need and the the importance of a process in this to make it a a defensible decision to make it a decision that if people come back and and question in any way we can say we went through the steps. Uh I look at I look at the work that we did with the uh the 9mi creek work that we did and we've all said it we went we stuck to the process and we got to a point where we needed to be. If we'd simply made a decision at the start of it, it would have been double guessed or second guessed and and uh questioned for the rest of time. But to go through the process as we did and come to that conclusion that we did gives it some legitimacy, I think in the eyes of the community. And I think that's that's the those are the steps we need to take here as well. Other thoughts, council member, thank you. I would say I I agree largely with that. Um, and for us to find a new process to do the process that's already there, I think it's going to take more time and push this timeline out. So, my preference would be to put everyone through the search firm, put the best people out there, including our assistant city managers who want to be um to take that role so that we don't have to go through this rigor role of trying to confirm the appointment and find a different process and then if it can't hit that process, then we have to go back to the old way anyway. So, um, that's where I'm at. Others, council member, I I just I just have a hard time. I mean, I understand the process, but I have a hard time understanding what is the what are the misgivings that my fellow council members and the mayor have on making a choice on somebody that has already proven herself on the ability to do the job. I find it very difficult and not just myself a lot of my constituents that I continue to get emails wondering why are we going a different way when we have two very capable people of doing the job as as we know only one of them have decided to trying to get the position and and I find it extremely difficult because if you compare Nile Creek a lot of involvement from the public had effect on what we decided or how the whole thing worked out because the public got directly involved with that otherwise it would have gone any way that the council had decided to take it. So in my opinion I think you know we are somehow um having doubt on the people that are currently doing the job because we don't trust that they are going to be capable of doing that same job. I don't if you don't let it happen, how are we gonna find out if they're capable or not? And so far, they have proven to be very capable. So, I find it very difficult to adhere to a formality that is just a formality that it's going to take longer to bring somebody in and it's going to add some cost to it as well. So, you know, I have a very difficult time accepting that mindset. Thank you, Council Member Nelson. Yeah. Thank you, Mayor. In my opinion, if we wanted to, if we didn't have confidence in them to do this job, we would have hired an interim city manager. We didn't. And they've demonstrated that they're capable of doing this work and they are doing this work. And so I I don't see since we asked them by not hiring an interimm city manager, we asked them to do this work. I don't see any reason to stop that. I think we move forward with it. We made that decision previously and I think we we codify that and we give assurance to the rest of the organization of what that structure is and we move forward with our strategic plan. we move forward with the enormous work that we have to do this year on our budget. And I'd prefer to just the fact is they've done the work and that's why I asked the question I asked and and I'm confident in that and I believe in that and I'd say let's let's just look at the body of work and make the decision based on that. Hold on. Let's make sure everybody Oh yeah, good point. I'll just have a opportunity. I don't have anything new to say that I didn't say the last time. Thanks. Okay, you can go ahead. Council member Lman. So, I guess uh all I would say is, you know, certainly when I made the decision, uh it was based on the fact that we would have two city managers. I have a lot more experience with uh Elizabeth Tolsman. Um when we move forward with this part and if you know, if a reporter were to ask me, you know, what were the merits here? have you seen this person's resume? I haven't seen the person's resume. I haven't gone through a process and so it would be difficult for me at this point in time, you know, though I've seen the work over the last, you know, few months. Um, but that again was in a co type uh situation. Um, you know, the charter in my opinion requires that we have a deeper dive and I've been through that deeper dive before. Um so um at this point in time um you know if we're not going to go through the traditional search I would ask that we bring you know whatever candidate that we have forward and have some other process. So that's that's what I'm looking uh looking for uh to have a much deeper dive to make sure as we move forward with this. I don't know what type of city management experience um the current uh candidate has. Um, you know, I don't I don't know the workflow and the things that were done in other places. I haven't looked at any of the references uh myself. That's not something that I've done in the past. In the past, the search uh committee took care of that. So, um I mean, yes, I know that was done internally, but we weren't a part of that. And this is our one hire that we have. So, those are the questions that I have. And uh and the last thing I'll say is that um you know, I think merit is an important part of any role that we have here. in this role is is over everything that we have. And so I just want to make sure that we go through a coordinated process that we have in case we were asked these situations. I want to be able to fully support whatever decision that we we make kind of moving forward. Mr. Mayor, may I please it it it I apologize. Uh council member, you're you made me think of a question I'd like to ask. Is is the issue is the issue for for those of you that want a formal process is the issue largely that it's because you didn't get to pick the person outright? I mean because to me that doesn't feel like necessar I mean we all don't get to pick everything all the time. I if that's if that's a really really important consideration I I want to understand that. Um, I don't have I don't have I don't have the like that's not a hangup I have to say like I mean if if we all believe that Jamie was doing a good job as city manager and he picked these people then I'm going to back that that was a good hire or I'm not in which case I'm calling into question why we had Jamie as city manager for 10 years if we didn't think we trusted him. So, like I'm trying to understand, I guess, what what the the thing is here. Here's where here's where I guess I land. If the process needs to be the process because we want to be able to say to some public group of people, I have yet to understand and identify that we checked all the boxes and we can say without question that this was an impartial and formal process and here's our candidate regardless of whether it ends up being uh misin. Um, if that's the most important thing, if the process is the most important thing, I am not a fan of process for process sake, but I'll concede that point. What I what I want what I would demand then from this body is that that we commit to that process being expedited. that when we need when when the consultant calls in and says you're on deck at 1:00 in the afternoon to show up for a an interview that you show up for the interview or you miss your window and you don't delay the process another two weeks because you couldn't be bothered to show up that time or whatever. Like that's what I'm looking for because this is in my opinion process getting in the way of of doing the right thing for the city. That's my personal opinion on this. this is a process that I think will end up in the same place. I hope so anyway. Um and I'm if you want to call me biased on that, fine. Uh but I I don't have any reason to believe otherwise. So um if we're going to go through a process and we feel really really strongly that we need that process, um then I would expect us to all commit that that process gets done as quickly as possible. and that you don't use your position as a city council member as a way to like make it harder for everybody else that you show up that you if you can't make it and you can't be there on time that you sorry then you know what or or you know whatever because what ends up happening we I mean we couldn't even get ourselves together to have a retreat that we said we needed for a year and it's it's May before we're doing it like this process could be delayed by our our schedules And I don't I don't that just seems like process getting in the way of actually doing the work. And that's what frustrates me about this need to have a process. So So I would say my feelings are pretty much in alignment with what I what my comments were um last week or two weeks ago, whatever that was. Um but I would not I would either want to go down the path of appointment or a competitive process. Like I don't think I think I would have I would have concerns about I think maybe you said this saw but if we were to go through a process just to have talking point or not talking points just to vet resumeums and things like that of one person and then get to the other side and decide oh well we're still not sure and then have to go through a competitive process then again. Do you know what I mean? I I could foresee that we would be in a very similar. You don't understand, pardon me, mayor. What do you mean by appointment? Well, so you were saying that you wouldn't feel comfortable moving forward with um city manager Hideen right now because you don't know her resume, her background, her city manager experience, etc. So, you would want at least a process to look through all of So, I'm curious about what you mean by appointment process because that sounds like a different process than the Aren't we talking about appointing a city manager? Well, right. Yeah. I thought you were No, I'm talking about appointing a city manager. Thanks for clarifying for me. We're just looking for So, I wouldn't want to have one process and then get to the other end of the We'd probably be in the exact same position we are in now where we can't agree and then have to then go through another competitive process adding on to the time. So, council, I'm going to I'm going to drive it to one way or another here. So, I'm going to make a motion that we direct staff to initiate the uh the search firm contract and begin a nationwide search for our our next city manager knowing that we could push for the expedited. I mean, we could we could have the discussion about whatever I can't even remember what the search firm had talked about for a uh timeline, but we can push it to shorten it by half if we wanted to. I mean, we could we could talk about whatever the timeline. If I may, why don't we just vote on it and decide that way instead? That's the motion that I just made. I'm looking for a second. We've got a motion and a second to move forward with the search firm. All those in favor, please signify by saying I I opposed. I motion carries 52. And I agree with you, council member. We've got to move this along. And then it's incumbent on everyone in this room to move this along. And we we can't have we can't have the delays that will come like we saw with the uh trying to put together a retreat. We can't have that. This needs to be priority one for everybody in this room. And because you're going to be asked to be part of this process, the the city council hires exactly one person and it's the city manager. And the council will have play an incredibly important role in this defining what we want in a city manager meeting uh with with candidates. I mean, it it's going to be one more thing on your calendar. I admit that. but to get to the decision that we want to get to. And who knows where we're going to end up, but we're going to uh to get to that to that decision. We need that that commitment from everybody in this room. Okay. And if I may, Miss opt out if you can't like and don't come here at the end of this whole thing and say, \"Well, I couldn't make those meetings, so I need a more process.\" Like, don't do that to us. please either show up or step away and say I concede my decision to the rest of council. Like that's what I'm looking for because other than that we're not that this is stupid. Like I'll just be on record. I already think it's stupid. It's going to get more stupid looking if we put ourselves in the way of this process. Agree more. Um just a question. Uh when we bring on the firm, I assume they have kind of a um an initial phase where they're doing um kind of an intake process of where we'll develop a position description. said,"