Good evening everyone. >> Good evening everyone. I will call our Bloomington City Council listening session to order. Tonight is Monday, December 22nd. We have four folks who have called ahead of time and scheduled. And uh I see three of them here. I see Chad and Andy and Julene. Don't see Pam yet. If Pam Palmer was our fourth person, were you looking to speak as well? >> No. Okay. So, if we have the three of you, uh, three of you being able to speak, we could, uh, we could probably do like seven, eight, nine minutes or so. Uh, everybody, we, as I said, we've got to get out at 5:15. So, we'll, why don't we say why don't we start with like eight minutes or so, and we'll hopefully get out of here by 5:15. So, Chad, you are first on our list. Come on up. 65 [laughter] >> the Christmas if you could identify yourself for record just so we have it on the the tape and off you go. >> Chad Dolly, 25 year Bloomington resident. Um I have a couple observations, a couple questions. They mainly relate to item 5.2, which is the compensation increase for state employees. I guess the first question is why was um on the December 8th meeting, why was this not further up in the agenda at the start of the meeting? because I stayed till the very end and heard the discussion but a lot of people left after the the uh property tax discussion the open forum and so just was wondering as far as the order of agenda why wasn't that discussed earlier in the night and then two is I guess a question are all city employees under the same step system both hourly and salary or does it vary between them >> do you want us to answer your questions as you Here you want to ask question them all or whatever you prefer. >> Why don't you go through them all and we'll see when would you do that? >> The third one is are salaried employees advanced the step automatically each year or does it require performance review and meeting of certain metrics that are predetermined. Um and then you know I've worked in finance for 25 years. I've been at the Lloyd Ernston Young RSM Gladri and currently at Clifton Larson Allen and you know I've never been guaranteed a pay increase. It's always based on a discretionary system each year and it's based on a performance review and rating. So that's kind of what the private sector is is offering. And then fifth point, the proposed compensation increases for a 4% step automatic step plus 2% cost of living adjustment which would allow up to a 6% pay increase annually. I guess how is this considered a market rate adjustment when the majority of residents, myself included, have been getting a a 3% pay increase each and every year for the last five years? And then the sixth point is just what other benefits are included in the total package like health care, car allowances, are there pension benefits, are there travel allowances, you know, what's kind of the total package? I think we need to look at that as well. And then how are those factored into the market rate study? And then the seventh point is going forward, how will or who will really determine that cost of living adjustment going forward? I know it can be from zero to 3%, but who's going to make that determination and what are the factors going to be to uh determine that? And then my last point is, you know, it just doesn't seem like the math adds up here because my understanding is a 6.96% tax levy was passed last week. And that would include or reflect the proposed 6% up to 6% increase for all employees, but really you're asking that to be funded by the majority of residents who are getting a 3% pay increase. So there's a little imbalance there in the math. So um just wanted to point that out. And uh yeah, that's my list of points. >> Well, thank you for that. I I'll answer what I can, but I'm going to turn it over to folks who might know better than I in terms of exactly how this was uh was uh figured out. Uh as a per as it relates to the agenda, we put it together. Uh agendas are more art than science and it was uh we were trying to figure out who would be there at the last meeting or the December 8th meeting and for what reason. And the vast majority of people were there for the uh truth and taxation hearing. And we wanted to put that as early in the uh agenda as possible just so folks weren't sitting around until, you know, later that they could actually participate in. And they certainly could have stuck around and listened to the presentation and the discussion about the salary uh about the compensation plan as well. They just chose not to. And no, it was a it's a conscious decision. the really important things we try and move toward the front of the agenda just so folks who are there and interested uh don't have to sit there especially if it's a big group who was interested like we saw for the food youth and taxation hearing Zack help me remember the second question >> um is everybody on the step plan hourly part time >> and I don't know the answer to that maybe you can help out with this uh I'm going to turn over to Zach >> yeah good evening Mr. Dolly Zach Walker, city manager. So, um about 700 employees here at the city. Um we have eight different collective bargaining units. Um our step plan that's proposed on the agenda tonight would apply to our nonrepresented employees. Um the um goal, our hope would be to um um ultimately have all of our employees whether represented or non-represented modeled off of this compensation plan. Two of our eight uh we have negotiated that with um but ultimately that'll be you know through the meet and confer collective bargaining process if if those other six unions decide to go along with that. So those would encompass probably more of those hourly employees you're speaking to. Um not you know 100% but most the um salaried employees would be in that non-represented group that this would apply to. >> So when you say nonrepresentative that means salaried employees. not not it's not um a hard and fast rule but to some degree um most of the non-represented employees would probably fall into that that salary group but not all >> non represented means not >> union versus not any >> I guess the other observation is you know a lot of like my employer for example they don't look at a percentage increase they look at where you fall in a dollar pay band, you know, for a comparable position at another firm, any particular geography versus a pay increase. So, has that been considered? >> Um, so in public sector um workforce, we're we're competing largely with other public sector entities. Um and of the ones that we benchmarked ourselves to um almost not quite almost 70% of um those are using this kind of same system. Um so we are modeling ourselves um after that um industry and I industry standard sounds like absolute. It's not absolute but about 70% of those are are using that. Um, and if I could just hold the floor for a second, I would say that on the the question about the guaranteed system versus performance. Um, we do have um employee um performance review um annually. Um, so we would still do that. And I might also tie that to your question about um who determines that cola going forward. Ultimately, that's a vote of the city council. um city staff would, you know, look at things like um consumer price index increases, things like that each year. Um but ultimately that's going to be a decision of the city council of what cola they would approve. >> Okay. >> And then um Mr. Dolly, I know you asked about the other pieces of employee compensation. I've been on the job about 60 days now, so I don't have all of the exact dollar amounts memorized yet, but I will tell you um we do participate in a statewide health insurance consortium. So, we do provide health insurance to our uh employees. Uh we participate in the state's um public employee retirement um association. So, there is a um you know, if you vest in that program, there is a a benefit there. Not all employees are eligible for um you know it's not like an automatic guarantee that you you travel every year. That's more situational based if your job necessitates it. Um I will tell you in the time before I got here uh the interim city managers did quite a bit of work to um let's say modify the city's approach to travel to try to bring not try to bring that expense down. Um, so there's there's probably more work to be done there, but we're heading down that path to to make that um more thoughtful. >> Employee gets a fire. >> There's not like a No. No. Um, correct. >> Got it. We're going to have a full presentation tonight and uh maybe answer a few more of your questions or provide a bit more information for you. But uh uh we're at time now. I'm going to move along and get to Julene in our agenda here. >> Sorry, Andy is next. Andy Okay, here. Um, I'm here. I put a data request in back on September 4th. I sent the council kind of my my data request. Um it was about basically it was a it was kind of the health career health fairs that the city had. So I'm just asking for the data the marketing materials and data and I know that if it's about me it's a 10day window to fill that data request but it's been over 90 days. So I guess I'm here to ask you know how are we behind in data requests or are we overloaded here because I'm waiting for that data request to come back. So I just want to ask that question. Uh I I I will editorialize and say yes we are overloaded with data requests but I will also tell you that uh after your September 4th request uh a batch of documents uh was released and was made available uh as part of the portal. We had seven documents ready for download on September 10th and there was an additional document ready for download on October 22nd and I know there are some email searches still pending. So that's not everything you were looking for, but uh and and it requests a year worth of your request or was a year's worth of email search for responsive data and it takes some time and we we're looking at that but I don't know if you've uh received information you you would have received emails from a it's called just FOYA just foia a come to your email saying the information was available and it was there for you to download and uh according to our records uh we can see internally that you haven't yet downloaded those. >> Yeah. So, when I go on the website, it just says processing. It shows nothing. >> No, you should have received an email that provided a link and information to what you were looking for. >> Never got an email. So, I guess that's that's my look at the database. I'll go back in the database. >> If you if you go back in your emails and see if if you've received something and you would have received it from just FOIA foia. >> Yeah. Checking your spam. Yeah. So, I'll take a look. So, there are documents if I go in the portal. >> Yep. Seven that were ready September 10th and one that was ready October 22nd. >> Great. And then other thing I know you guys are talking about cutting somewhere. So, over by me um on 82nd in between Nickel and Portland. Um, I sent you guys videos of what was doing basically walking down the middle street with groceries or whatever. The sidewalks are not well. So, I just wanted I'll just let that be known. Um, the the the side the street does have two sidewalks and going down like so if you look at the side between nickel and Portland has two sidewalks. I don't know if it's going to become practice both sides of the street, you know, from one way, but maybe one side now. I don't come back on that side of it, but you know, the other side of the street is very, you know, it's not I'll say that, you know, and I know sometimes we can't get down all the way with our equipment, but I'm just going to let you guys know that observed people actually walking the streets. The other thing I wanted to mention maybe with Chad um the is the is the employee budget like part of the overall tax. So the 6.96 that was passed is that because we really weren't aware of the steps of the cola as a public when we're talking about truth and taxation. We weren't really aware of the cola you know for the city. I don't remember seeing your presentation for the steps until after the public had a chance to speak >> but presentation earlier on this or was it >> employees every year and more often than not not every year but more often than not there there are increases and so it's it's baked into that 6.96 or whatever we we ended at uh salary and compensation the 6.96 was passed you know the paper studied Did you guys get a chance to look at that? Tell them bring that to the public or give the public a chance to speak. >> Generally on administrative things like that, it we usually we don't hold a public hearing on administrative things like individual staff members salaries. We we we just don't do that. That's that's an administrative kind of thing. It's not a policy kind of thing. >> Right. >> The policy level discussion is what we're having now. and and even that is uh the administrative policy isn't necessarily one we open up >> right >> for public hearings and and for everything. So it's uh it the salary increases the the compensation plan for employees is generally baked into the the yearly levy increase and that was the case this year as well. before the public speak um steps have I know you're still seven% I [clears throat and snorts] know a lot of the city are done in so you guys scales like other cities like using their stuff systems like almost Miriam, >> my understanding is we're trying to to make as uh equitable as possible between the representative and non-represented employees and and make sure that we we don't have any discrepancy between the two and to put a little uh normaly and and uh planfulness into what we do with employee compensation, >> right? >> And and as a state employee, you know full well that what the steps do and and how you're able to work through them and and and folks all do that. I'm sure where wherever you work there's probably the combination of represented non-represented employees also and it's you try and you've just got to make sure that you take care of your employees equitably sometimes the step system steps you know I think you guys know that like [clears throat] tight the dollars aren't there and the taxpayers can't even feel burdened for several years before you know so we got some problems you know contract but I It would be nice to know the paper study about the important compensation I guess before the public would speak you know on that meeting. So pretty much >> I appreciate the feedback. >> Thank you. [laughter] >> Selene now we're ready for you. It won't fit. I guarantee it won't fit. >> I have one, but it's a Grinch. >> It looks It looks like I have a waist. >> Yeah. So, >> good evening. Welcome. do respond. >> Um I am also here to ask questions about um the resolution that was brought on December 8th regarding the compensation plan and I believe that the council had a lot of questions about it and it was held over. Um if you could confirm that it was held over until tonight. Um and we can just keep track my questions. Um [snorts] and from my understanding um Steven Barrett said that there was no formal um review process. >> Um and then I have a question. Was any action taken uh on that resolution on December 15th? Um, the levy was approved by the council on December 15th. Is that correct? [clears throat] >> Yes. I believe that. Yes. That was our last meeting. Yes. >> Okay. Um, I would like I didn't didn't keep track, but I'd like to know who like the the vote count, who voted for and against. >> I believe it was a 61 vote with council member Reebus in opposition. >> Thank you. And it is also true that the resolution is again on the agenda tonight for passage for consideration. >> That's correct. That's meaning we didn't pass it on the 15th. There was there was there was no action earlier. >> There was no action on the 15th. That's correct. >> Okay. Um, so just to clarify, there's been no date in which the city council has read the motion to approve the resolution, made a first motion, seconded, and voted in majority to pass the resolution authorizing the new salary 4% step at um and and increase in FOLA um at the uh employee hiring anniversary program. >> Is that correct? >> That's correct. That is correct. It has not been passed by this council. It hasn't been considered yet by this council. Okay. Um, so my question is how [snorts] is that resolution, the new plan included in the I mean it can be included in the budget and the levy, but how is it included and passed by the council when the resolution has not been passed yet? Um, yeah. I want to know what page of the charter allows that action that the employees go ahead and launch a program included in the budget, included in the levy, and the council has not given approval for that action to be taken. And if there is no place in the charter that allows that, I want to know what the procedure is. What what is the procedure for that to allow to happen? Can employees just willy-nilly watch triagrams and the council approves it without a formal. I I offer you an answer if you'd like. At least a clarification if I could. Would that be all right? >> Um I I just want to make sure you you're clear that nobody is being paid under that new plan yet and it won't be that way come January 1st without us approving it in advance. So just because it was included in the budget, meaning like, hey, if you decide to pass this, we don't have to come back and ask you to fund it. That's what happened. But it doesn't mean that we're going to pay people that way because we haven't passed it yet. Yeah, we have an email of of a of an employee that's been um >> that's been uh told. >> Are you talking about the from the fire the member of the fire department? >> Mhm. >> Who is a represented employee? He's a member of a union. >> Okay. >> Who has settled their contract? >> Okay. >> So, yes. So, that's why that might have been gone into effect because they have settled their contract. >> Okay. >> I still want to know if >> this can happen if you let me. >> Yeah. As I sent you the email a couple of days ago, the budget was approved and with the calculations that we were going to be saving a million dollars if we go into the new u uh proposition that that the staff has made regarding the the the raises for the staffs. Um, if we vote no on that, as I stated to you, >> uh, the problem is that we were going to have to go back and utilize the old and increase that budget by a million dollars, which brings us to 7.96%. Um, by the finance and management allowing us to vote for the general fund and us passing that. um we allow them to make the calculations that they made as I explained to you. I I mean um it it's difficult to accept, but the reality is that if we don't if this doesn't pass, we're going to have to increase the budget by a million dollars. Therefore, bringing the total percentage to one point higher, 7.17. I I need I understand where you're coming from. >> I will disagree, Victor. >> I understand where you're coming from. you can find a million dollars to cut someplace else. Um the the the the difficult part is and you know you've been you find me in a in a position that I'm trying to explain this video because I ask all the questions that I can possibly think of and and the difficult part is that it's late in the year. The only the only regret that I have is that we couldn't discuss this a little earlier. But the reality is that if we don't vote on this, we're gonna have to go back to and pay the plan the way it was before this transformation took place. Um, and uh, even though it does it doesn't just seem it is high in my opinion, it is still saves us a million dollars in budget. >> Okay. This year, what about going forward? >> Uh, and that's something that we will probably have to discuss later this evening. You know, we all have questions to ask. There there are going to be more explanations and more clarification on the plan later today. So, let's wait to see what happens then because right now I can't give you an answer. I gave you everything that I could possibly have because I did ask even more questions than you did. Uh and the information presented to me and given to all of us just me is very clear. Uh you know, as difficult as as it is, it is very clear. explains everything in detail and it's very difficult to for including myself that I have a tendency to go against the grain. I have a very difficult time saying no to this at this point at this particular time. It's very difficult to say no because we are going to reverse to a time that we're going to have it's going to cost us more all of us not just the city the entire population. It's going to include What they did is that they proposed this and they make the changes to the budget and bringing it down to where it is now 6.96 cents or somewhere around there. Uh and but making the assumption that this plan because it's saving a million dollars we were just going to you know with all the questions that we asked we were going to accept it is actually a million dollars. >> Okay. I will just tell you that a 6% increase in this day and age right now when I went out and I again door knocked and spoke to to seniors that are concerned about losing their homes and I got a 2.8% increase in cola and social security. I took it early to care for my mom and dad is unreasonable. And I am not convinced and you will have to prove to me and the rest of the citizens of Bloomington that this is not going to cost us more and more and more. Additionally, you keep adding employees that is going to cost more money. Everyone is going to get 4% plus cola. This is backass backwards. Excuse my language. >> That's it's how a budget is put together. The staff different departments they bring forward their budget proposals >> and they put after after >> No, this was this is >> the levy is approved. >> Every year human resources brings forward their proposal for staffing increases. We know there's likely going to be staffing increases. >> It was in the budget proposal that human resources brought just like >> when was that made public? >> I I'm pretty sure we had it in one of the in their presentation that the the staff I I'm pretty sure we can get the I know we've got the slide because we saw it earlier this fall, but the the the biggest cost driver for the city is the people and costing and and salary increase. I understand that >> and >> I understand this >> and and your point about increases in in staff members that's our fire department as we're adding the fire department and those are the that's the biggest increase in numbers of people that we've added to the staff in the past couple of years >> right and you use the safer grant and you have no plan to pay for those people after that safer grant >> we we had a plan it was it's a community It's a community respons. It is a community responsibility. For years, we went with a volunteer firefighters, volunteer firefighters that did a wonderful job, but they were severely understaffed. Who else is going to pay for firefighters for the city of Bloomington except the residents of the city of Bloomington? >> Okay, sir. Then you need to cut in other areas. You have we have no you you talk about community development. That wasn't your point. Your point was we're adding we're adding staff and who's going to pay for that? >> This this the the city of Bloomington is paying for this because >> Tell me what my point was. >> The the point is the city of Bloomington is paying for this because this is a public service for the city of Bloomington. >> He made that comment a couple of times. >> Last week he made that comment a couple of times about that we were putting this on the back of Bloomington taxpayers. >> Who else would pay for this? I've never said putting it on the black back of Bloomington taxpayers. >> Don't put that Don't put that in my mouth. >> Somebody said that. Somebody said that. >> Don't put that in my mouth. >> And who else would pay for it except Bloomington taxpayers. This is a public safety circle for the city of >> Bloomington. You need to look at cuts in other areas. Community development which is not working because businesses are leaving. >> We are past our time. We are past our time. Thank you very much for your comments. And this council passed a budget that we we considered those things. We considered and we we made the decision by 61 vote that the budget that was in front of us was best for the city of Bloomington and to move the city of Bloomington forward and not into reverse. >> So, thank you for Thank you, >> council. We're past our time. I would look for a motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> We are adjourned. and we'll see you downstairs. Thank you.