We will start here just as soon as possible. Um actually once you turn I will call the meeting to order officially and what we do is uh we have folks who have called ahead of time and signed up and we welcome them up to speak and we'll it looks like based on the the number of people that we have it'll be about five or six minutes for each person is all we're going to have and it's going to be a matter of um say what you need to say or would like to say and don't be surprised if there's a conversation if the um if any of the council members ask a question or um look for more clarification or or anything else. So, it's more of a conversation, a lot less formal than it is downstairs. The names that I have signed up for the listening session in this order, uh, Teao Savanich. All right, we're down one already. >> Oh, sorry. Here. >> Teao. Oh, that's you. >> Yes. >> Oh, okay. We got Teao. Uh, Conrad Freiedman. >> There you go. Welcome, Conrad. Sharon Sharf. Sharon. Matthew Howard. Hi, Matthew. How are you? Good. And Suzanne Boston. Perfect. >> So, why don't we get started? Why don't we start with Dale and we'll get going. >> And what I'm going to ask you to do is sign in after you're done speaking so we don't spend time on that. Then ask as you sit down there um get up close and personal with the microphone so we can make sure we pick it up. Okay. >> And the microphone is on. Correct. You're welcome. Just >> making sure. >> There it is. Thank you. Good evening. Welcome. >> Good evening, Mayor and Council. Bloomington is the only city in the metropolitan area that doesn't employ AI powered automatic license plate readers. I'm going to keep it that way. Automatic license plate readers, especially those from the company Fox safety, compromise everyone's privacy and safety to an extreme extent while providing little benefit to the public in terms of stopping crime. Automatic license plate readers like those from Flock Safety work not only by detecting license plates but also details on vehicles like making model color damage and even aftermarket modifications. In addition, the cameras connect to a citywide gunshot detection system. They can also be used to alert cops of domestic disturbances by detecting screens. Data from cameras can be queried to monitor the location of a vehicle with a given license plate or certain details. In addition, cameras can be connected to a nationwide network called Flockova in which law enforcement can search tens of thousands of cameras across the country. This sounds great in theory, but Flock Safety's implementation presents several issues. For one, there isn't any actual evidence that automatic license plate readers actually decrease crime. The only two studies that did find an association were funded by Faulk themselves. Flock claims that their cameras can't be abused by officers are used for immigration enforcement, but both of these claims can be refuted. There have been numerous cases of officers using Flock safety cameras to stock previous partners. The way Flock's database works is each officer uses a username and password to log in, but two-factor authentication isn't required. This means that officers can provide their login credentials to immigration enforcement officers, which there have been numerous reported cases of lack of two factor authentification also means that it's much easier to steal accounts. A Russian forum was found that selling um stolen Flock Flock Nova login, allowing the buyer to access a veritable treasure trove of information that can be used to track and stock citizens. Flock cameras also aren't very secure. A tear down of the latest model flot camera found that it was essentially a smartphone running Android 8 which stopped receiving essential security updates in 2021. Android 8 also has more than 900 known vulnerabilities. Apart from the security of the operating system, a paper found a total of 47 major security vulnerabilities with flock cameras, including the fact that cameras don't have sufficient radio frequency shielding, meaning that with basic radio equipment, anyone can see exactly what the camera is thinking and seeing. Flock says that officers must provide a reason with a search on flock system. However, the reason is pretty much just typed into a text box. Chapter 13 of Minnesota statute declares that citizens may request certain pieces of information from Minnesota's department. I requested all the data from this year from the Adina Police Department, which makes use of dozens of flock cameras. And I received monthly audits, reports, and search logs. Looking through the data, I found a request from September with the reason suspicious with nearly 1,500 cameras searched. I also found a request from the Canadian police with no stated reason. This shows that in practice, the system doesn't actually meaningfully enforce the requirement to use the system for legitimate purposes. Overall, I urge you to maintain Bloomington's position on privacy, security, and justice by not purchasing flock cameras. >> Well, thank you. Uh, if I could ask, what what is your interest in flock cameras? Where where did you where did you develop your interest and your concern about the camera system? Uh there's been sort of an online movement lately as cities have adopted them over the past several years, especially over the past year um with people citing concerns online about um their privacy and security. >> Thank you. >> Council, any questions, additional comments on this? >> Um thanks. [clears throat] >> Takes a second. >> Am I there? There we go. Um, I [snorts] would just uh I don't think that we currently have a anything in the upcoming budget item for the police to be doing any purchases. So, I'm I'm I want to just chat that first off to just make sure that you know that I don't think we have any 2026 budget item for that. Can we get confirmation about that? >> Off the top of my head, I can't confirm or deny because I'm not sure. >> No, I was thinking more for the manager. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Thanks. We'll check on that and we'll hear more about that. And then uh and then that just means that we can get your comments to the police department so that if they do in the future, but been with the same, if I remember correctly, we've been with the same um license plate reader company for a long time. And it's uh it's cool to watch and it's laser driven, so it's not like an automated thing other than what they have at the Mall of America, which of course is a private company, so they have what they have. Yeah, >> I think that's it. Okay, we'll check. >> Thank you, council member. Anything [snorts and clears throat] else, council? >> Very good. Tail, thank you so very much. If you could remember to sign in, be greatly appreciate it. >> Thanks for being here. Thank you, >> Conrad. Thanks, Good evening, Conrad. Welcome. >> Good evening. Thank you. I should say that I'm known as kids. So, have been all my life choice. The way I worked out uh my in the grand scheme of things, I would suggest that my college is probably pretty small and pretty. But I do think even though it's a pet peeve of mine, uh I do think it is a topic that has a profound impact on the health and quality of life of this for residents city bloom and that is the uh topic of gas powered leaf blowers. I've been told by city staff that council has previously addressed this issue. um it is [clears throat] covered by the notice of nets. It has to do with power other outdoor equipment. But I would suggest to you that the limitations there which mean about hours of operation are half measured at best uh in terms of the profound impact that these machines have. Um, when I say it's a pet peeve, what probably triggered this is last season I was sitting in the breakfast and made my cup of coffee through the sixth district and [clears throat] started across the street and of course they went out for two hours and never mind that it violated the noise ordinance. It's real broader than that. I mean everybody is well familiar with the problem and the irritation and the nuance of noise. Um you [clears throat] know the gas cars produce over 100 dB of noise which has been likened to the sound of a jet plane falling off. The thing about a jet plane taking off at least whereas if you have two four leaf blowers operating across the street they generally operate for hour and a half to two. So, it's like having the jet plane idle in your driveway for two hours. And I would also suggest that there actually is a slight difference in quality of the noise because leaf blowers are notorious for the fact that they operate a very low decel uh uh very high decibel but very um uh low frequency and that low frequency noise has the ability to penetrate walls including like concrete blocks and everything. So in contrast, you know, a high decibel irritating noise, a dentist grill, mosquito buzz, I mean that drops off very very quickly. You don't hear it 50 feet away. Whereas those leaf blowers, I mean you there's no sanctuary inside the house. So okay, pet peeve. That's just less than half the problem, I think, because what's less known, less discussed is the profound air quality problem by these things. Um, mostly blowers are two-stroke internal combustion engines, which by definition are notoriously inefficient. And it's a technology that's existed for decades without change really. [snorts] I mean, there are four- stroke gas powered leaf blowers, but they tend to be more expensive, not used anywhere near as much. uh they're would be more efficient to a degree, somewhat quieter, but they also don't produce the power that a two-stroke engine does. So, what we see used are these two-stroke leakers and um so, I mean, they're so profoundly bad. I mean the air quality problem is the kind of I mean they they operate you know as you all know it's a it's a a oil gas mixture that's used and [clears throat] they're so inefficient that upwards of 30% of the fuel is not combusted in the operation of the machine. So that gets dispelled into the atmosphere along with the exhaust in the form of particullet and also uh aerosol droplets and you're breathing them in and um just one study was done there's an outfit called Edmonds which if you ever look value of a car you've seen Edmonds and Kelly Blue Book and CarMax. Well, Edmonds [clears throat] did a study once and they compared the pollution output [snorts] of a gas powered leaf blower operating for half an hour, 30 minutes against the pollution output of a Ford F-150 Raptor pickup, which if you're familiar with that is sort of top-of-the-line Raptor, big engine, broad footprints, big and they discovered that the pollution output by the leaf blower in that half hour exceeded that of the Raptor in a if it were to drive from Texas to Alaska, a journey of 3,900 miles. Now, that study was done in 2011. Now, the Raptor in 2011 is not the machine that it is today. I mean, it was a, you know, V8 engine with 420 horsepower. Now, they operate the V6 engine with EcoBoost and their it would be the impact would be a lot less. So I'm asking that the council would consider undertaking an effort to ban the use of leaf blowers and to do so from the council so you know a sort of grassroots effort wouldn't be required. >> Understood. We're at time here. Kate, I I will tell you we're we're brothers in arms on this one. I cannot stand the sound of those things. Cannot stand. So >> Well, 100 cities in the in in the co county in Maryland have outlaw them. Yes. So you'd be in good hand. [clears throat] >> Well, thank you. Thanks so much. Uh we we got to get moving on. I can see somebody >> Well, is it just leaf blowers? Because I mean that that that problem of air pollution is true for all gas powered Yeah. >> lawnmowers and all that. So are we thinking about it simply because of the noise problem of leaf blowers that they fall into that? >> I I don't think we we we haven't really framed it up. I mean Kit did a nice job, but I think as the council, if we would consider this, we could look at a variety of different things. >> Yeah. I mean, we're looking at it more holistically maybe. Thank you. >> Thank you, Kit. Appreciate it. Sure. Thank you, >> Sharon. >> Good evening and welcome. >> Thank you. there. He's just my age. Anyway, um I'm here to talk about the um the meeting I attended last week via telephone um about uh the permit for cannabis facility plant on Nesbet Avenue, 109th in Nesbet. And there's a couple things. One is I just didn't feel like I articulated during that um meeting how I what I was trying to learn. Um, so I kind of come up with like five points. One is I'm not sure why they picked that location for something that isn't already zoned to be handled there. It seems like there should be other areas that are that are vacant um that are set up for that kind of process. Um, second, just the impact on the neighborhood. Um they were very careful during that presentation to say that um the processing the no discharge would go into the sewer and water system. What they didn't say was what their plan was to handle it. And my understanding with what I I'm believing they're doing to get the CB oil from the hemp is processing and 90% of the hemp will be discarded. So, if it's, you know, not going to the sewer water, thank goodness, where's it going? You know, is it going to be hauled by trash? Is it going to sit in the garbage, you know, bin? I mean, I don't know. I just know that I know wet grass smells after a couple days. So, I'm concerned about that. Um, so I don't know where they're going to dispose of it, landfill or whatever. Well, that's a big big issue for me just from a trying to keep land, you know, productive for everybody in the next generation. Um, they also said that that the processing there would be some smell from the processing and that it could be mitigated. They didn't say how and they didn't say what to what extent that that smell would be. And I don't know if the smell goes north to south or south to west, east or west. There's a lot of homes in that area and there daycarees and schools, etc. So, that's a concern I have. Again, I don't have an answer. It's just a concern. Um, again, they said they could be mitigated, but they didn't say how or that they would, and there wasn't a requirement within the the conditional permit saying they had to do that. That wasn't one of the conditions. Um they said at some point they may um decide to sell onsite so they become an off-sale vendor. Um certainly that's not a facility where you have people pulling up to a door and buying any kind of thing. It's it's warehousing. So I think that's that's a concern from the security standpoint. Um delivery of the raw materials. We all know how much stress there right now on Normandale and Old Chaki just because of all the construction. So again, it's just more traffic on on roads that are already very very busy. So that's also a concern. Um so those those are my thoughts. So I wanted to share because I know eventually that will come to you and I'm hoping that you get more answers. um because I don't like the idea of after the fact trying to get compliance. >> Agreed with you 100% on that. So, thank you council. Any questions? >> All right, Sharon. Thanks very much for being with us this evening. Thank you, Matthew. This is what I'd like to mic so I don't blow out some eardrums. My name is Matthew Howlet for the record. Howlet pallet or mallet. Um I'm gonna talk about the redevelopment of Nichollet Avenue. And >> there's a B, you know, we can go tons of different directions. Uh, I saw what you guys said October 27th. Um, tried to make some notes, lost them, unfortunately. So, I'm kind of abling a little bit. So, bear with me. But, um, >> I've been pretty consistent as to like what I have as a vision for for Bloomington. And I think that mixed use paths um whether it be a nine mile or a nichllet share many of the same problems. Um Nichollet Avenue right now as designed uh if you look at a compare actually how how many of you are fairly up to date with Nicklet Avenue's development right now? >> Okay, pretty much everybody. So right now if you look at what Richfield has proposed versus Bloomington, >> we don't even compare pale in comparison in terms of safety, accessibility, um focus on pedestrian over cars, all of it. And it and it integrates extremely well with what they've already been doing for for almost I think it's I think they started in 2018, so you know, seven sevenish years. So I like to think of, you know, Bloomington as valuing or expressing its values and how it builds its infrastructure. That is like literally where you know money where your mouth is type of deal. When we say that we're going to do a mixeduse trail, what we're saying is either we don't understand the issue very well or kicking down the can down the road or andor we're inviting conflict. So, the proposal that I would like to see that wasn't really discussed in any of the plans presented to you, which is sad in my opinion, is that we should essentially copy what Richfield is doing um for its um public transit plan. What it does is, if you're not familiar, I know roundabouts are really kind of controversial and that type of stuff. That's not exactly what I'm proposing, but if you even look at like some of the the uh intersections, instead of paint, they literally um press, they bring the sidewalks closer together. So, your entrance is as a pedestrian, it's much shorter. They narrow the roads. This actually enforces without having a road sign, enforces the speed limit that you desire. So if Nichollet is supposed to follow the, you know, citywide speed limit, which is supposed to be 25 miles an hour, the sign says something, but people obey the infrastructure much more effectively than the sign would say. So all these things together, I would I highly recommend taking a look at Richfield's plan because right now, if this was a competition, we are in last place. We aren't even close. And I believe in collaboration over competition. But a friendly competition, I think it would be healthy for us, especially just looking at our strengths. Our strengths is in our parks. We do a really good job of restoration. We do a really good job of of maintaining our our our park infrastructure. There's green space. That's going to be where the canopies are and all that other stuff. Having dedicated trails in both directions ensures that you're going to see far more people use them, which I know, councelor uh Reebas, not to call you out, but I know that you were apprehensive in in kind of favoring basically cars and seeing that when we do stuff like this and we we end up with like what's that turn lane in the middle and people use those lanes and you weren't sure if you weren't seeing too many uh people use uh bike infrastructure and that type of stuff. The trick is is that it has to be built first. You don't see it. >> You see crazy people like >> the endur we have is a we have a 28 out of 100 rating for ridability in Bloomington. I use France Avenue to get here. It works. It's okay. But as soon as you get off of France Avenue, it's a bit of a nightmare every time. It doesn't matter >> how safe you want. >> It's it's entirely dependent on infrastructure. We don't have it here. So moving forward, what I'd like to see happen is instead of a mixed use on both sides of Nicllet Avenue, I would love to see the same boulevard system and just switch it to being a directional split use single lane um path. So you have bikes, you have you have a bike lane, you have a pedestrian lane, you have a boulevard, you have the road, and then you repeat the process on the other side. That fits, it works, it's tried and true. Richfield literally does this throughout their entire city and has end to end cap or um capacity for it. Any questions? >> We are at time Matthew. So I appreciate that. Council member Dlesandro. >> Yeah. Um >> I think this is on Okay. Um I just FYI, this is a Henipin County plan. I wanna I want to burden Hanniban County with allowing with creating that continuity a little bit here. I mean, we don't know what Richfield is doing unless Henipin County comes and tells us what they're doing across the entire corridor, right? So, so the only not not to be defensive. I agree with you. You know, I do. Um, but to say that number one, could we please maybe get Hanniban County to come back to us and explain to us why they're not showing us the same plan that they're showing Richfield? I think that would be good to know. And then two, um, to make sure that you're advocating at the Henipin County level for this continuity. >> So, this is actually where I need city council's help. It's not just about me. The city council and behind the curb is your decision. It's deferred to locally. So, the Henipin County will design the road to specifications is essentially kind of what they want. And even then, Richfield has actually redesigned parts of the road, but you are responsible for what happens behind the curb. They will listen to you. So the problem is is that we aren't basically what's happening is that either city council or staff either aren't aware of their power or aren't exercising it. And that's the problem. >> Matthew, we're beyond time here, but I appreciate you coming in tonight. Thank you. I'll be back. >> Suzanne, [snorts] thank you very much everybody. can't really appreciate this. And I I I've never done anything like this before. So I wrote everything down. >> So thank you. Um you know, I've lived in Boomington my entire life. I was here before Jefferson High School was even built. I bought my house almost 30 years ago. Raised my family here. Shoveled the walks, mowed the lawn, paid every single tax bill you ever sent me, no matter how high it climbed. Tonight, I'm pretty furious because you're you taxed me on my house. >> You know, this year my property taxes jumped 12%. >> Suzanne, can I interrupt you for just one second? >> I know. Did >> we we did have this conversation downstairs if you recall if we're if we're going to talk about it on tonight's council meeting. >> Oh, I have to do it at the council meeting. >> We we have set time aside at the council meeting. >> All right. >> And and I I I would appreciate it just because it gives you the opportunity to to hear what others have to say as well. And then we we will be on topic and we just we want to make sure that we use this time as efficiently as possible. So if we have time >> at another venue, we we'd rather not do that here if that makes sense. >> Absolutely. I'm sitting back there going, "Oh crap, my stuff doesn't sound like theirs." >> So, thank you. And we'll get and I'll do it down. >> Can I have time to >> Yes, absolutely. Everybody who wants to speak at the council meeting, we'll have again five minutes >> to sign up. >> Uh, no, just raise your hand. Raise your hand. We will call you up. So, >> all right. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. I'm sorry. >> [laughter] [snorts] >> Thank you for understanding. Uh, anyone else? I think we got one person left in the the the room and any you have want to give a four minute talk on anything. I'm seeing no. Okay. With that folks, uh, we have gone through our list of speakers plus one. We'll see Suzanne downstairs. I would entertain a motion to adjurnn tonight. So second >> motion in the second to adjurnn our listening session. All those in favor please signify by saying I. >> Opposed. Motion carries 70. We will head on downstairs for the council meeting now. So we will see you there. Thanks.