[laughter] No, ma'am. >> [clears throat] >> Okay, everybody, let's get started. I'm not calling this to order because it's not a school board business meeting. This is a school board special study session. Uh it's not a public meeting, but it's a meeting held in the public. So, today is Monday, November 24th, 2025. It's 6:02 p.m. We're in the boardroom for the study session. And generally at work sessions, we go around and introduce ourselves. And so I will introduce myself, Freda Evans Becker, board chair. I will point out that our newest board member is in the audience, GJ Pritchson, right back there. And so the rest of us will um but he doesn't take office until January, so that's why he's there. Okay. So then Amy, executive director of human resources. >> Renee Bowman, board clerk. >> Kristen Holmisel, chief financial officer. Good boy. Caroline Long, vice chair. >> Bob Mau, assistant superintendent. >> Becky Rodri, senior director of teaching and learning, school board. >> Anthony Williams, executive director of community education, athletics, and activities. >> A little school board. >> Terry St, superintendent. >> Molly Olsen, executive assistant to the superintendent school board. >> And before we start every meeting or any event in the district, we read our land acknowledgement. And so I'm going to read it now. We acknowledge Robbinsdale Area Schools is located on the homelands of the Dakota and Ajiway people. We recognize the painful history of genocide and forced assimilation of the indigenous inhabitants of this land. We honor and respect the many indigenous peoples who live on and hold sacred these lands and we stand with members of these nations to fight injustice in all of its form. We uphold the sorry we uphold the preservation of Dakota and Ojiway languages landbased education and tribal sovereignty. And with that we'll move into our agenda. We don't need to approve the agenda like in a business meeting. We just go into it. And so uh purpose and agenda is Dr. Stall. >> Excellent. Good evening everyone. Um this [clears throat] was one of the additional study sessions uh back in September, maybe even before that, August maybe, we knew that as we were making some really um important decisions, we knew it would be wise to put some additional meetings on our calendars. So the sole purpose of this study session is to continue to talk about uh the statuto operating debt, how um the site consolidation is a piece of that as well as additional budget uh adjustments. So purpose of study sessions in general is just to make sure that we've got an opportunity for board members and administration to work together, for board members to have all of the information, the questions that they need in order to ultimately make some um decisions at the board table. Um while we have a presentation this evening, we really want this to be conversational. Um we've got time yet, so we aren't in any big crunch. We've got a couple of weeks. We want to be sure that you get all of the information that you need as we keep working toward December 15th, which is the public hearing and ultimately the night of vote um on the closures. Um so with that um we also have included in the board packet uh the board working document. Always want to make sure that everything that we do is aligned to the roles of the governance roles of the board. Um so tonight what we are working on and it all falls within the operational oversight of the board. Uh it's work that we're doing toward approving ultimately that steps toward operating that plan as well as monitoring and using enrollment trends um to plan strategically for current and future facilities staffing and budget decisions. So with that, I'm going to go ahead and uh kick off. Actually keep this slide here for a minute. Um we uh come together tonight. We're in a a relatively similar spot to where we were. Um, actually, are we first on the agenda or are you? >> Nope. I'm I'm I'm two meetings ahead of us. I think it's us. I'm two I prepared a lot of agenda. >> Yeah. No, I got it. I got it. So, sorry about that. Um we're in a similar place that we were two weeks ago talking about the site consolidation plan and we had brought forward uh recommendations. We've talked about those. The board had um questions. We've uh listened to your questions. We we are ready tonight to provide additional information. Um, as we know and as we could have predicted, as we get closer to that decision point, um, people's interests are continuing to stay engaged and to grow and we we knew that that would happen. So, the the information, the emails, um, people who are choosing to be here tonight, thank you, uh, is a part of the process. It's a part of ensuring that we're listening to questions and concerns. Um and in some of those they're very similar to some of the questions that the board has brought forward. [clears throat] So hopefully some of those um answers and concerns will also be shared as as part of uh this evening. Um we feel good about how we vetted options um and the information that we have for you this evening. Um and so tonight as we begin we'll share a little bit of those reminders of the timelines where we are in the process. We'll share the additional information that you requested around the site consolidation and be sure that you've got plenty of time to answer to ask any additional um questions that you have or request additional information if we don't have it right now. We'll be sure to get that to you. Um and then also this evening um as we get through the conversation around site consolidation, we also want to be sure that we come back to an add-on layer of the additional dollars. So of the over 8 million um that we're anticipating to reduce this year. The site consolidation recommendations bring forward about 2.5 million of that. So we're bringing forward uh some additional recommendations for discussion this evening um about how to get to that over 8 million. So with that [clears throat] this is a slide. Thanks. This is a slide that uh if you recall when we started this calendar and timeline on September 23rd um with the vision 2030 recommendations, we had a whole slew of additional meetings. So while it seems like we still have a long way to go, um there's been a whole lot of work that you've done and that uh we've done in order to get where we are today. Again, this is that additional um study session. You can see that uh starting in September, you can see where we are as we're nearing December. December 1st is a regular board meeting. Um we'll do as much as of our business as we can at that meeting. Um because of the second meeting being the hearing as our primary task. Uh I think we also have a very important truth taxation part as the December 1st meeting. Um and any work we do around the statute for operating debts plan will be providing information to you but it won't be [snorts] a huge we don't anticipate being a huge part of the meeting on the 8th um there was a request for an additional listening session before the hearing. So, >> and there is a listening session on the first also, right? >> There is not. That is just that is just >> right now it's just a study session. If the board wants to consider something different, we we certainly can do that. >> It's a business meeting. >> We certainly can we we don't we did not have that on, but we we certainly can add that. >> Yep. >> Okay. Well, I just thought first meeting of the month was listening. >> We certainly can. If the board would like an additional listening session, we certainly [clears throat] >> questions is more listening additional listening session. >> Yeah, we added one on the ETH, but >> for specific to the closure. >> Um, I don't know. I think if somebody wanted to come to listening session with with another topic, I don't think you'd want to. >> That's not what I meant. The the aim is for a specifically requested around the closure. >> Correct. >> So the normal listening session would be at this next meeting. Is that that's >> the question. Okay. So let's add one to the first then. >> Yep. So, we have taxation scheduled at 6 p.m. So, if you're going to hold a listening session, it cannot start at 6 p.m. because public notice for our truth and taxation hearing is at 6:00 p.m. >> Right. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, truth and taxation stays at 6. >> Yes. And then however you design around that is fine. Well, we have agenda setting coming up. We'll chat. >> Okay. That sounds great. Um and then on the 8th, uh we do have that uh listening session and then we'll have a board study session the 15th then um within it'll be well there isn't a whole lot on right now at least on the business meeting side of it other than consent because really the purpose of that meeting is the hearing, the public hearing and allowing as much um time and space as we need for that prior to the board's uh vote on school closures. moves us then into the organizational meeting on January 5th where we'll look at a final draft of the statutory operating debt plan and seek approval um on that plan on January 20th so that we can have it submitted to the state. Again, all of that is just the highlighted part of a very of a much longer process that we'll be engaging in over the next several years. So again, [clears throat] this is one piece, the initial piece of determining site consolidation um as we work to reduce our footprint as we work to move forward with that statutory operating net plan. Um slide multiple times and can see how we'll begin to look at the next thing uh come January. So with that, I'm going to hand this um over to assistant uh superintendent Dr. McDow right now. Um, again, you've seen this slide multiple times. I think that as we look at this slide, we continue to see that we're primary decision points and as we're getting closer, those secondary decision points are also important to pay attention to. So, then I hand it over as well. So, just as a reggrounding again, that's why we kept the slide in there. Um, and really tonight as as we're answering questions that the board had or performed, [clears throat] some of that is really around some secondary decision points that impact future decisions, programming and trade-offs, uh, is really where that falls. And so some of the trade-off that we're considering, we [clears throat] meaning all of us, right? public, board, everyone is really what is that utilization of closed space or property looking into the future whether there's a a referendum or not. Right? So when we close a site and you have a vacant site with a building on it, what is the potential future of that site based on what happens? That needs to be a trade-off consideration. At the last meeting, uh, comments came up about you sell a site, what what does that what do you do with it? But that's a trade-off to consider um is is what can you do with the sites that are where the decision is made to close them at this point moving into next year. The second uh trade-off really is trying to find a balance in an ability to program for all students at the remaining sites. Right? So, we are talking about what happens to center-based programming. We're going to get into that a little bit tonight. What happens with our specialist classes at the elementary schools? What happens with intervention, early adventure, adventure club, lunchrooms, all of those types of things. And then we talked a little bit last time about the impact on transportation. We started digging into how many kids are walkers at a building, how many kids ride the bus or need transportation. And then the idea of how do we keep elementary buildings in particular at higher overall sections or more full sections so that we can realize the most efficiency when it and level services when it comes to the support of the kids in the buildings. So, do are we able to reduce the amount of travel that takes place for our specialists and support teachers? Are we able to have a 1.0 FTE of something versus a shared something? I don't know. Executive Director O'Harn, if you want to add to that. >> Yeah. So, if you have a building where you have larger number of FTE um or classrooms, you are going to have a larger number of support FTE [clears throat] allocated to that building. So that person essentially is going to not have to travel between sites. They will feel a part of that school community. They will feel a part of that culture climate and the staff will know that they are part of the MTSS group. They are part of child study. They are part of that building and feel part of that culture. So, it's just it's an ability for us to staff appropriately and an ability for that staff member to feel part of a home in one building versus being split between multiple sites. So, again, this is where we are at in the conversation. It's not it's not just about those bigger conditions now. It's not just about location now. Where are those secondary decision points really start to become values? What do we prioritize? What do we value? and how do we best make a decision on that? Put this slide back in just to again regground what the initial recommendation was and then the board took action to have four elementary schools and middle school and ESC on um on the docket for publication. So that brings us to tonight and really what tonight's purpose of is for this conversation. Um we wanted to put together some heat maps that were requested. So we'll talk about those. There was a question specific can we move Neil to Noble. We'll talk through that. There were questions around centerbased impact and then [clears throat] there was uh questions uh warnings about the potential impact that is based on specific closure with with a configuration. So if we close these two schools then what if we close these two schools? So we'll talk through that and then finally as Superintendent Stalum said we added a couple slides about budget [clears throat] adjustments and where we are at with that process. So we'll start with the question of Neil to >> [clears throat] >> uh right uh as we look at the two buildings. Noble has 23 classrooms potentially 24 if you count an intervention space that's in the building. Um it's right up to the 850 ft. So uh 23 24 depending upon how it's configured. Moving Neo fully into Noble, meaning you take everything that's needed and put it uh at the Noble site, would require 23 classrooms, preK through five. Noble currently has two kindergarten rooms and it would need four with this uh configuration. [clears throat] So all of that means that while it would fit, like we stated last time, it technically would fit, both music and art would have to operate off of a cart. they currently are in their own space. Uh so those two specials would have to operate up a cart because we would need those spaces. It would most likely also cause the computer lab uh to be moved uh into another space across the hall possibly between the media center and the maker space room and we would not have any room for centerbased classrooms at so it would be really full. That would be the impact as we look at rooms and programming in there. I'll keep going unless there's questions. Um, this the second topic was could we see some people? Yeah. Can you remind us how many centerbased classrooms are in New York? >> Currently there are six centerbased classrooms in New York. >> Can I just And those kids spend part of the day in their typical classroom and part of the day in their centerbased classroom. So what that means is there would be no inclusion of kids at at Noble. >> That is >> there would be no inclusion of kids with IEPs at Noble. >> That is correct. And we're going to we have a couple two three slides specifically talking about centerbased so we can explain to everyone what we mean and what what that is so that folks that don't work in a place really they are are working with centerbased students and that programming so they can have an idea of what that is. Just to [clears throat] clarify, there um would be students at Noval with IEPs, not in centerbased program. >> Again, we'll we'll we will parse all of that out here in a few slides. >> Okay. The next topic was could you put together a the heat maps of available students in an attendance area for the elementary schools we're talking about and then the number of students who attend inside of that uh attendance area. So as we start with Neil on the left hand side when you you see the uh overlay black line over the red line that is where we create the boundary and then we say how many available students if there were no interd district transfers if there were no magnets how many students live in that area that would be uh theoretically boundary to Neil that would be 603 students. Currently, of those 603 students, there are 208 that attend NE. So, the other students go someplace into the [clears throat] district. Uh they might go to C, they might go to RSI, they might go to any one of the other schools for some reason. But that's what these heat maps tell you is g as a general generalization how many kids live in that area. if uh you boundaried it to a home school and neighborhood school and how many attend if we [clears throat] did the same thing. Do you have a question? >> Just to clarify, you're saying these are the ones who live in the district and attend Robin schools or this is the of any that could be captured? >> Oh, these are resident kids that attend Robinsdale schools. >> Got it. Just wanted >> Yep. on the available or on the attending. [clears throat] >> So are the 603 are all at Robin Schools? >> Yes. >> Got it. >> Okay. >> You were you able to pull out any data as far as where they are there 400 like what type of schools they going to? >> We did not pull that data. >> Um I don't know. We could I mean well [clears throat] we can see where else they go in the district. We just don't necessarily have the concentration of they go to this particular site. Like you can I mean we can do the math but to be like okay of those 600 how many go to C? How many go to RSI? How many go to fair program? How many go to Metal Lake? I mean we can't we can see that they're not there. We just don't have it finite. We would have to do a different type of reporting. That wouldn't be a heat map to try to pull that information. Okay. >> But these are only elementary kids. They're not like middle school or high school. >> Correct. >> These are K5. >> K5 >> as they exist today. >> Correct. >> But so the awkward enrollment is not captured here. Kids who? >> So that's not the full capture rate. Full amount of kids in our district. It is not the full amount of students that reside in our district. It is the capture rate of the students that reside in our district that stay in our district. >> Right. >> Yes. >> Just so I'm understanding this clearly. So if if let's say the district were strict on kids enrolling outside their community boundaries which parents would have to choose where kids go to school obviously it is possible that at least 600 kids could have been going to me >> and not to other schools in my district. So if you think about it this way, the question at the last board meeting I think was around what happens if if magnets don't exist and we the response that we said there is the first step would be to you have to send everybody to their home school and rebounding. So if you think of it that way, this assumes that on the 603 that this would in this model, these are the kids that are technically boundary to Neil as their home school. So if they weren't allowed to go anywhere else, they would go to Neil based on this boundary. And then these are the amount of kids that stay inside of that poverty, don't choose to go to a different school in the district. It's interesting, right? So we do the same thing for Noble. We pull the Noval attendance area [clears throat] current boundary lines and same same exact thing. It's 369 that are inside that and then currently 139 from inside of that like 10 mobile currently >> on one of the charts that um we've been provided um there was a question I had about mobile with regard to the building capacity it listed the building capacity at the same number as it did of the enrollment so I wondered if that was that didn't seem right and it's 500 That's why I'm ask [clears throat] 542, right? >> Yeah. >> No's 542 and as far as a capacity. >> Okay. Well, I can put that in my little chart. I mean the little chart. 500 what? 42. Okay. Thank you. So we did the same thing for Son numbers coming in 479 161 and then again the lake view 391 191 and then the next question we we kind of let it the next [clears throat] question was specific around special education program. So what we thought we would do with this is do a couple introduction slides just to set the groundwork around special education. So uh we uh have students on their IP are identified as a federal setting federal setting 1 2 3 or four. You can see on this on the screen that if a student is identified as setting one they spend 0 to 20% of the time in special education. So, these are students that you may not even know that they're in special education. Um, up to 20% of their time could be spent with some type of direct service. Setting two picks up at 21% and it goes all the way up to 60% of special education. So, you're getting into students who spend part of their day in probably some sort of class uh specific to special education students. And then setting three, which is what we're really talking about here, setting three, 61 to 100% of the time could be in special education inside of our rooms depending upon the student, the need, and their IEP. So, setting three is what? But well, before I do that, setting four, those are the students that attend school in a se in a separate school. Uh so we don't keep setting for students service setting for students um in Robinson. Setting three is really what we're talking about when we're talking about centerbased Robinson. So different than setting one and setting two where those services are provided in all of our K12 schools. That's setting one and setting two all the way through the school system. Setting three, those center-based rooms are only at select sites. They have a different requirement for the number of students that can be in the room with the case manager. And the number of classrooms we have across the district change and can be modified annually based on how many kids, what the need is, how our programming bests and again setting four uh is outside of the district and provided by 287. So what we are talking about uh what the question is really about are these center-based rooms specific to our elementary schools at this point in time. So when we looked at that the question was what how do you what does the move look like? How does this impact? So, the easiest way for us to help share that is that our centerbased increase for next year is really an assumed need of an additional four classrooms. We currently have 28 elementary center-based classrooms. We anticipate needing 32 next year based on what we see as the potential rollup numbers. So then if you look at [clears throat and cough] the four different scenarios of two elementary schools closing. So I'll start with the Sonos and Neil. If Sonos and Neil both were consolidated, you have 11 current rooms in those two schools right now this year. Plus you would need an additional four. So you have to make 15 adjustments. You got to find 15 rooms somewhere if Sonic and Neil were both closed because they both have rooms in them right now. So, we got to move those rooms plus we need that additional four. So, we'd have to put find 15 spots. You follow that that line down. If you close Neil and Noble, you have nine current centerbased rooms between those two schools and an additional four. So you get that theoretical 13 adjustments for rooms. Sonos and Noble it's 12 adjustments and Sonos and Lake View is nine adjustments. The reason one of the reasons that the Sonos and Lake View is smaller than the rest significantly is Lake View does not currently have centerbased rooms in it and so you don't have any that you have to make up. Uh whereas the other closures you do just that's why that number is significantly lower. Just >> go ahead. >> So when you say sis and c can you explain which one is the I'm just not sure which one of these refers to which plan because here this only talks about combining like because we're not closing Sonis and Neil. We're combining in a plan. So I'm just confused. So at your last board meeting as a board, you put four buildings on the docket as potential closure. So I throw the combinations for all four of those schools to potentially be closed. >> So >> So the [clears throat] first one is if you close Sonos and Neil. >> Got it. Okay. >> So the last one refers to the initially like the plan that you guys had suggested. >> That is correct. Okay. >> So, when you're saying 15 adjustments, 12, 13 adjustments, this means all of those kids from 15 rooms would need to be >> correct. So, >> or nine rooms depending. >> Absolutely. So, if you stick with that first one. Yep. >> And the idea is probably kids in those rooms would have more difficult time with transitions. I don't know that to be true or not to be true. Okay, >> this is just I'm just answering the question of impact not good bad. It's just this is the impact. >> Okay, thank you. >> So in either of these scenarios, additional rooms that will be required will be four. >> Okay. >> And basically the definition for adjustments is more rooms potentially. I mean I there's no definition for adjustment. that can mean a lot of different things. So, >> yeah, the reason I use the word adjustment is because they're they don't all necessarily move together depending upon which elementary schools are still uh operational based on which two schools close. That then is how we figure out how many can go in this building, how many can go in this building. >> So, so just to follow up that so, so the word adjustment really means it can mean adjustment to the room itself or to student body or student deployment in different spaces. Is that accurate at all? >> I think you're >> It could be. >> I mean, I'm trying to Yeah, >> it's moving students. I would leave it at that. >> Okay. And potentially could impact some rooms if we don't have enough space. I mean, I just want to know the span of what that definition is for adjustment. >> Well, it we know in each one of them we have to find four additional rooms. >> Well, space and >> and then you add what's existing to that. >> [snorts] >> So, can we go back to the first slide about special ed? >> This one. >> Yeah. No. So, federal setting three, those students should not be in special ed 100% of the time because that's the point of them being in a building is so that they have access to general education at some point in their day. Um, so that needs to make sure that's planned for that those students who are centerbased also are able to have that time in a general education classroom. So often times those classrooms aren't fully capped because those kids are coming in there as a student because all these kids are general ed students first >> and then special education is a support for them. And then for federal setting five, those kids are in special ed 100% of the time. I mean four, sorry, special four federal setting four. Those kids are in special ed 100% of the time. >> That's typically the case. Sometimes if we're transitioning, they may go to 287 for part of their day and and remain in Ardell for part of their day. Um so they receive their special education services in a separate school for more than 50% of their day. That's the definition. >> Okay. So then too also with the federal setting for students since our students go to 287 and the special ed formula for budgeting they pull general ed dollars away from us for those students that we send to. So want to make sure that's clear. So, so on that point then, so um so the clearer that the budget implications for this are significant. So the clearer we are about those last two bullets, the better. >> Yes. >> You know, and so for decision-m for me, you know, and so um if that can be known at some time in future, what percentage of those kids really are needing that they're going to do? Well, seems like all of these in setting four there at 287. Yeah, that's good. >> So, I mean, I think that's that's I'm more concerned about setting three. You know, if that's 61 to 100%, what is it really? >> 61 to 100. >> Well, so that if if it's true that 100% of them that you can't reach 100 with those kids, it shouldn't be 100%. If I understood you correctly, >> right, then that's that's really where my question comes in. The definition of setting three is more than 60% of their day. So inclusion is always the goal in the least restrictive environment. >> So the baseline is 60%. Correct. If they need more than 60%. Correct. So 40% of their time. >> That could be the case. >> Okay. So that mean that's helpful to know because then they need that. Just a question about when you the the additional form rooms though my understanding the way you're saying it that's why I want to double check is that those don't necessarily have to be in these buildings they could be anywhere in the district right so for example with a community that's moving out of Fair Pilgrim Lane that frees up three or four classrooms >> potentially right because they there's spaces that are right now being used by community so those would free up for example Yep. All of the spaces in elementary schools would be looked at. >> Yeah. Okay. So, it doesn't necessarily have to be in those particular buildings. Got it. >> Okay. Just want to make sure I understood it. So, I think I want to go back to what we talked about last meeting on our priority when we're looking at centerbased students is looking at where their home school is as the consolidations are happening. making sure that as much as possible looking at the home school. >> Yeah. >> As we're aligning the centerbased classrooms. >> Will that be true for our magnet programs as well? Do any of them have >> currently this year? No. Moving into next year, fair pilgrim lane will have space in that building for centerbased program. >> Sorry, Helen. The question was, do the magnet schools have centerbased programs in them? >> I heard that question the other day about something. [snorts and clears throat] >> Currently, CSI do not have space for centerbased program. Um, and then again, like we talked about a little a bit before, both Noble and Lake View, and I'll show a slide with rooms on it, we can put centerbased rooms in there. It's very limiting. And either one of those buildings uh based on the moves for next year, but it has the potential to put specialists on carts. Kind of talked about that before spaces. I have a question about that because as I understand it, I think that there are a number of different I'll just say art and music there number of different services that aren't cart right now across the district. Is that the true statement or not? I mean, I've heard that before. So, if it's not the case, >> not in art and music. >> Well, I'm not saying art and music. I'm saying that some classrooms there's some use of carts by teachers for certain delivery of certain services is what I've been told. So if you're saying that there are nobody's teaching on a car and maybe art music but otherwise no >> is it tutoring or intervention maybe >> I'm just saying if there's not classrooms being turned on taught on a cart then that's really the question >> at the elementary level specific >> I think at any level I mean because my question was how prevalent is teaching on the cart across the district that was the question so if it's not happening it's not happening and so I can refute that myth I mean that's my question >> with principles tomorrow morning and we can confirm that. >> Well, I think we need to confirm it. I mean I've been told that's a phenomena. That's not unusual. It does happen and it has happened and so if it's happening I think it's good to put it into context so we're not thinking oh my god they're going to be on a cart and nobody else is on the cart. But still, >> I can tell you that in my conversations in the last week and a half with principles, their concern was putting art music on a cart because it currently isn't and they have been in situations prior years. I don't know exactly what years where they have had that. So, they don't want to go back to that. >> I [clears throat] understand. But I understand going to kind of look into a global question. >> It's a global question for me. Well, well, the the glo so the global question is are any art or music teachers or classroom teachers on a cart? >> Yeah, having delivery services on a cart. Does that >> but delivering service? Sorry for interrupting. Delivering services could be I'm not saying there isn't an interventionist or a reading core volunteer, somebody who might have their materials on a cart because they're going into a entryway hallway or something to work with students. So, I just want to be sure the question that I heard from you, are any elementary art, music, or regular education classrooms on a cart? >> And I I would even add to that um because we're going to come to the conversation middle school because um that is because the phenomena of having specialists or teachers working from a cart across the district is something that we'll need to contemplate at some point. We're not only talking about elementary and isolation. We're also talking about what we're going to do to middle schools. So, it has implications. So, I I mean I I like to do what work once special education staff. >> So, that's later. I mean, I didn't expect an answer right now question. So we did you'll remember the slide from the last time it just had Sonos and Neil on it when the question was comparing those two buildings. So to expand on that because the other four the other two buildings created the set of four that you were talking about um tried to put the similar grouping of information together. Um, and I just I put them in alphabetical order on the chart. So, you can see [clears throat] the same information. We're uh Lakewood. We're right around the there's two classroom differences. A reminder, those are classrooms that um are being used as a classroom or a classroom setting. So, around 850 or more kindergarten rooms bigger uh for that as you'll see two lines below. And then small rooms. So these are rooms that we just talked about like for interventionists. Might be a speech room, might be um a room for a small breakout or things like that. Kindergarten classrooms both available two. Media centers within 500 square ft of each other. Cafeteria is the same setup in both. A few lines down you'll see multi-purpose room. So both schools use a multi-purpose room as their cafeteria. Um kitchens are very comparable. Little more square footage in the gym for normal have got a teacher lounge both have stage 10ear facility condition assessment acreage is the big difference. Um not a surprise we talked about this a little bit. Lake View has is on six a little over six and a half acres and no sits on 10. As far as routing for transportation, pretty close. Uh a bigger walk zone with Lake View. Location is obviously a difference. And then total square footage is [clears throat] really close in a building. They're just configured differently. um obviously um and the room set. But even though one is one is single story and and long and the other is two stories, the configurations of the rooms are they're just configured differently. Um and so gives you a little bit little bit different um ability to put rooms together or not together. >> So what does that acronym FCA stand for? >> Facility condition assessment. That's 30 years that it would need over a few years. uh 10 years that's that's the 10year that's the current 10year facility condition assessment number >> is the same >> basically >> basically the same as LT if you remember um two weeks ago we we shared out that because of the documents where we were we we had started with the 10ear facility condition assessment and then we had broken it out as we started looking at buildings and that started to confuse people with the numbers because they start to change as we decide in 3 years we want to do this, in two years we want to do this and that just seemed to not make sense. So we went back to the 10-year total because that's the only place where you can look at the number to actually have a consistent number across all the buildings um unintentionally. So what we tried to then do um director Hill to your question is to try to articulate what we believe the impacts of the closings are. So we've talked about Sonos and Lake View, right? So we know that Sonison shifts, we anticipate Son [clears throat] closing Son would shift students 169 up to Zachary Lane and the rest of the students from Son would go over to Neil. That's where we think at this point. Lake students north of Highway 100 would shift to Northport. Remaining students would shift to no special education. Uh as we talked about before, we would determine those needs. We need to make nine adjustments to different buildings. Uh and uh that that's inclusive of the current rooms at Sonos and the additional four. And then the High View High School and Robinville virtual academy shift and the ESC shift are what we've talked about right in this scenario. If we shift to closing Sonison and Neil, if that were an option, the Sonos move is uh the first move would be the same. However, the remaining students at Sonos would move up to Forest in this because Neil's not available. uh Neil students depending upon how we rebounded we would shift somehow between Lake View and Nor would be the shift from Neil and then special education adjustments and a reminder that if we add uh if we make these adjustments and we add special education uh [clears throat] centerbased programming to Lake View and Noble, we're probably going to have to capture some room space there and that'll mean putting specials on carts. >> So, I'm still wondering I don't see anywhere in here about any of the cost about any of these shifts. Is there any special equipment that would need to be moved with any of the centerbased programs? >> I know we had talked about bathrooms needed to be updated at Lake View if that was going to be removed to have um [clears throat] district staff there and high view like what's the cost and all of that? So, for clarification, the cost to adjust uh an elementary bathroom to an adult-siz bathroom, which wouldn't just be moving ESC, it would be moving uh high view students as well. Best estimate um is, and again, haven't costed it out. I would presume presume a four stall bathroom is probably 25 to $30,000 per bathroom. That would be the cost. And it wouldn't just be moving ES anything that isn't an elementary sized human. You would have to adjust the fixtures. Um, as far as what would it cost to move desks and equipment from one building to the other, again, we we are working we're working to figure out like to essentially kind of get a a mover quote to say what would it cost to empty out equipment or desks or furniture, fixtures, and equipment from one building to another. We are working on that number. We just do not have it at that at this time. The other the other just sorry I just wanted to also ask her because you asked a question about um the cost of centerbased programs and moving centerbased programs. That's something we do every year. Every year we look at where our students are, the needs of our students, the programming. So I'm I don't know that that >> but it wasn't just that. It was are is there any special equipment in some of these center-based programs that might need to >> Yeah. And I guess I would I would still answer it the same way that I was starting to answer is that that's something we look at every year. So there if there are if there is equipment that needs to be moved with students, we do that. We review that on an annual basis and there's moving expenses if we were to have anything that would be included in whatever quote we get. Well, I I don't know that it would. Just like we don't, you know, there's cost every year with moving some things that, you know, we're closing buildings. There's going to be costs for moving. So, I I don't know that that's that different than what we do on an annual basis, but we can >> Yeah. On the special educ not specific to special, it's more of the building, >> right? [clears throat] And depending upon what the equipment is and how we go through the process of figuring out what makes most sense to put a centerbased room here, if we have to move it or not move it, there might be in one scenario and there might not be in another. For example, there's a swing that needs to be uh taken down uh and put up in a different place. There'll be a cost to that. Um, if there's not, there would >> Well, and two, what about like some of the sensory rooms or calming rooms that some buildings have because [clears throat] that's going to be need to be a classroom, too. Is that taking into consideration the space for that? >> Yep. We just had the conversation with uh Tony Bordon this week around what what all will need to change with regard to breakout rooms, things of that center base. Again, depend on which building it goes into. um what are the spaces for that? Where can we put that? It gets into quite frankly the conversation around Lake View and nowhere having limited space. If you put a lot of kids in those buildings now you you can't have you only have two rooms that might be one center base room and a breakout room not two centerbased rooms. It will depend on what decision is made and then that'll domino into what can we put where and what does that look like. things like to me like it's going to be tight and we smush all these people into sight >> depending upon which building's closed some would be tight >> then I feel like why so two questions one is here it says high view that's a mistake >> it's a mistake I just yes >> what is that supposed to be >> so that that would be ei High View High School and Robin Virtual Academy, they would have to move to Sonos. >> Okay. And then so here's the thing. Yes. I think that you're right and that's why the proposal is to move schools into these bigger spaces that have room for expansion and have room for pickup of of higher capture rates so that hopefully when we get through this we can capture more students which is why they didn't suggest things like moving Neil into Noble right moving Neil into Son and that's why but they're giving us options because that's what board members asked for but I think to be asking about things like the cost of moving and things like that is pennywise and pound foolish because we're going to save a lot more money in the long run um by closing the schools. And the compounded um savings of having them closed for multiple years will save us a lot more in the long run than the cost of moving furniture, resetting up spaces. And so we have to think, yes, there is a cost and that has to be included in the overall total as we're totaling it up um and making budgets as we move forward. But those costs are going to, yes, they're part of the the upfront cost of doing this, but in the long run, the savings that we're going to have from closing these buildings and operating more leanly, and also the benefit to our students to having having a counselor there all day, having a nurse there all day, having the the support staff that are full-time in their building is so much more that worrying about these little I don't think benefits us when when really we need to be looking at the big full systemic picture that we're going to be achieving by doing this. And so worrying about the cost of moving a TV is not is not the big picture that we need to be looking at as a board. Well, I am going to worry about that because those costs do add up and then they end up compounding on themselves and especially bathrooms. when we talk about bathrooms, bathrooms are probably one of the most expensive things to try and upgrade, fix or whatever it is you want to do. So, yeah, I am going to worry about those things. >> That is something that I do worry about. So, I am going to worry about those things and that's that's Aviva. I'm not trying to >> Well, you interrupted me and then you started contacting me. So, you are arguing with me. I worry about Hold on. Hold on. >> All I'm saying is my opinion and you're welcome to your opinion. welcome to worry about it, but you don't need to talk to me that way. >> And I said mine, too. But then two, you say things that feel very >> downplay of what I have to say. So, >> let's keep this when you're telling me Pennywise stuff like don't don't do that. >> We are each our own individual people. We worry about different things based on our perspective. >> Fine, but think about this. If you're going to if you're going to move because you want to spend less on rent, you include the moving costs, but you know that in the long run, you're spending less on your rent. So, you're saving money for years and years and years. So, you include that moving cost knowing that you're going to be saving money in the long run. So, to be worried about things like fixtures when you're not repling a whole building is is not in the grand scheme of things not going to get us to where we need to go. And that's my point. And so you're welcome to to to think about it differently and look at it differently. I'm just stating my my point of view. >> I probably won't because like I said, that's how I look at it and that's what I find value in and that's my perspective. [clears throat] >> Director and then director G. One person talking at a time. >> Oh, sorry. >> Yeah, >> that's okay. I would just uh like to provide clarification that moving costs or costs to renovate aren't compounding ongoing costs. They're onetime costs. So just for a point of clarification, when you're looking at operating a building, that is an ongoing compounding cost. Pick the building, it doesn't matter. However, when you look at transition or getting space ready um or anything like that, that is a one-time spend. So, I just want that to be clear that that isn't a compounding and ongoing cost. It's a one time it's a cost nonetheless, but it's one time versus ongoing. >> Thank you, Dr. Wood. >> Yeah. And also just to add to uh the discussion on cost, I think yes knowing that we are spending $50 on moving an item right may not be as important but based on the data we've received so far I believe it was 2.5 million that we are getting from the initial proposal. Right? If we are spending 700 to be able to move the facilities that we have agreed on to close so far, maybe we might not want to do that in the next year and we could push some of that to the following year. So knowing how much cost is involved in all these moves including this building and I think will be useful for us as a general information [clears throat] in the long term. And we know the district is going to save money, but it might slow down or hasten our decision making as to what actions do we need to take right now. So I will also support some of the details if we have it if we don't and some may be hard to guess right until you get to the point where you know this building needs to nobody might give me an estimate. So, we get that, but getting some numbers out there like she's already done, I think it's useful for us to have. >> May I respond to that? Yes. And that the the challenge is is not knowing. I like precision, right? That's my job is to be precise. And so to not know exactly what buildings is is uh a little bit more challenging because every building is designed differently and what you need to do it creates a different expense. We are working on again what is the cost to move? What is the regardless um what is the cost of a bathroom? Presumably $25,000 per best estimate. Might be more, might be less best estimate. Um but we'll continue to working on assessments right now of you know regardless what whatever building it is. If ESC were to pick up and move, does it matter the building? What does that cost? We are working on those numbers. >> Okay. >> Thanks. >> You're welcome. >> Just to add to that, I just remind everybody that we shared the 10-year facility commission assessment. Reason we went back to shared this with the board a couple weeks ago and an update. Again, the reason why we went back to the 10ear was to give that bigger perspective over time. What's it going to cost to upkeep this building? Remember that one of the primary decision points for us has been building condition. That point which buildings we take them offline have the most ability to save us from having to put dollars into them while we keep the buildings online that aren't blank. That's the whole that's the whole concept. Well, not in minute detail. That's that. The only other thing that I would say just is the it is very normal to want to try and figure out things like moving costs and this and this is all a part of that orange slide that I owe you and I didn't put it up this time and I show it is normal for those things to be the shrinking pond effect because nobody wants to close a building, right? And as we get down further into the details, people are looking for what is that one thing that will cause us to not make the decision around this? What's the one thing that will cause us to do this? The the response is it isn't one thing, right? It is what's the most desirable of the horrible decisions? What's the most feasible? What can you sustain in our context with or without a referendum? And that includes this current conversation. Sustaining meaning without an additional referendum of some sort, how do we spend the least amount of dollars to keep our existing buildings functional to the level we want them to? >> Well, I think that that fundamental premise is something that I think we've talked about around this table enough. I think we're all pretty clear. You know, I mean, we have to close buildings. I think as much as we don't want to I think that that's the reality. I do believe that um the the phase one two and on beyond that uh I do think that um to the extent that we understand what some of the shifts will mean in terms of cost it's important to have it cost. So for me, moving something to a different phase, for example, the ESC, moving it to phase two so that many of the unknowns that we don't know now can come to the forefront has a lot of value to me because um it doesn't harm any kids, nothing changes. We've got capacity for I view the High View High School virtual academy and a couple other things that go along with that. We've got we've got for those things. Um, and when I look at those numbers for what it cost and what we're looking at with the ESC, it's like $8 million price tag. I got it somewhere here, you know, and it's the same price tag that's attached to um I probably should have put that out so I can have but um a couple of the buildings. Let me just go back go back a couple slides because the cost of in the long term and I I that's why I asked for 10 years worth of LTFM information because I wanted to see track and see what we what have we been doing and that's because uh I think that the team we have in place is we have now the capacity to actually do some planning long term and I'm not saying people weren't doing it. I'm seeing some deliberate visioning a lot of that uh because I think that that's an important factor as well. So going fast doesn't necessarily mean that that's the right thing to do on some of these moves. Now the the closures of the elementaryaries and if we can middle school I think that's top priority because I think we have to do it to get to to the number of [laughter] other things aren't that critical you know and can wait um you know especially if they cost money you know then they definitely can wait but when I look at this when I look at the 10-year plan for uh Neil and I look at Sonison it's almost just a million dollar difference so uh and when I look at the rest of the comparisons the square footage and Sonic and some other kinds of things are for it in my opinion. Uh and of course I've stated that before and I think the preference would be to move Neil into Sonic and one of the things that I didn't understand that you just talked about a few minutes ago was uh that some of the students at Sonison would need beyond 169 would need to go to Zachary Lane. I thought we had talked in the past about and maybe that's if we go to Neil. I'm not sure what that even means because we've talked about in my thinking I had thought that Neil students would just could fit in and would come over to Sonosan or Son could kids could fit in it and would just go over to Neil. That's the way I've envisioned it. So, if I've been envisioning that wrong, that's why I'm asking because when I saw that slide, I thought, "Oh, teachers, I didn't think that we'd split up class because we just argued, we just talked about splitting up student bodies a little bit ago when we talked about like [laughter] I have the same value for all the students. I don't if they don't have to be, I don't want to split any of them up, you know." So, that caught my attention. So, are you saying that there will be some splits in S in the Son Neil? We talked about it at the last board meeting as well. There's there's 80 or so students that are boundar >> 169. Um and so right now our our thinking is that we would reboundary that small group up to Zachary Lane and keep that boundary on the west side of 169. So that's for the if Sen goes to Neil, is that in that scenario? >> We have it in several of the scenarios. I >> I know, but I was responding to that slide. >> Yep. Right now. Yep. You have that in that. >> And so um but if it goes the other way, if Neil goes dishonest, that is that's that doesn't factor >> if if Neil >> Mhm. So it depends upon which which way it goes. But if Neil closes um and Sonos, we would still look at moving Sonic and kids up at this point >> in either scenario. >> That's important to know. I didn't know that. >> Again, these are just impacts. If you remember the board wanted to dig into what does it what does it potentially look like? when we would close two schools side by side. >> Um, and this is this is not a it's not a new recommendation of ours or or not. It just this will be the >> I have a followup. >> So my followup is at the end of this as we get toward the end of this meeting or at some point um you'll ask us for questions or is there more superintendent is going to say is there more information you need? Absolutely. you know, and so when she says that, if we if there's something else, you're going to ask for that. >> So if you're in the middle of your presentation, so maybe it's good to let you proceed on. I don't want to interrupt that. I can keep going and our last our last bits of this are really just what we believe the impacts again are. If we close in this case and no um you'll see the moves there and counted for the special education adjustments. Um we did Neil and Noble those two. We would so as an example to your question, we would shift Sonos students that 169 because that would theoretically open up space which would allow us to shift Neil students over to Sonos. Um Noble would go uh shift up to Lake View and Forest potentially 13 adjustments and that's that's really the the impact. [clears throat] So those are the questions. Those are the questions that were asked of us last meeting. >> Before Director Long speaks, I just want to remind people that ESC is closing as per the board decision at our last meeting. We're not putting that off because that >> and Robinsdale and Robinsdale middle is closing and we will be closing two elementaryaries. >> Well, I I understand that but what I also understand is that that decision can be brought back by somebody who was on the you know the side who voted for it. We can bring that discussion back and if it's not the fat lady had been saying and I'll be the fat lady in this case. So, um you know the fact of the matter is is that that was a decision but we're still having conversation. We're still hearing public, you know, public testimony and and I was there. I understand that, but I also know how Roberts work and if somebody wants to pull it back, we can rethink that and do something different. That's that should be in this that should be in the air. So, people should understand that. >> I can speak to that if you want. Sure. >> So, at the last board meeting, the board board made the decision to publish the potential closings of ESC, Rosville Middle School, Sonic Elementary, Neil Elementary, Lake View Elementary, Noble Elementary. That is what goes into the paper. Then that is what is voted on as a final after the hearing on the 15th. Director Long. So, as I'm kind of listening to this tonight, it sounds like no matter what, all students are going to have some kind of shift, even if they were Sonos students and not stay in possibly Sonos or whatever it might be. There will be some kind of shift for some students if we're moving all these boundaries around. So, but the main point I wanted to make is um here, you know, I've been a Minneapolis public school employee for some years. So, I've been through school closures as that on that end as a staff. I remember one year being at Lucy Laney and they had decided to combine schools. They comp combine HIA M academy and Lucy Laney together and we were supposed to split the building in half and half of our half of the building was supposed to be for HIA uh school and the other half was Lucy Laney. That was horrible. That was poor planning especially for special ed. We had specialed resource teachers, not just special ed programming resource teachers in hallways trying to teach specialized instruction to students who didn't need to be disrupted while other classes were passing in the hallway to go to specialist. There was never a time or a space where we could find as specialed staff to teach students or have a room because that room that building was so packed with having those two schools combined in there and then also to have our specialized programming in there. A lot of those specialized center-based program classrooms ended up being in like closet spaces >> which was not good for those students. Now that next year, because of how horrible and cramped it was, they opened another school back up. But then there was all these costs that came with reopening that school because the school they had closed if they were putting them back in. They had taken out uh equipment. They had taken out lockers. They had taken out fixtures. All those things needed to be replaced back in before HIA could move back over there again. So, I I want us to really take that into consideration, especially when we're thinking about this and the things that all students will need. I mean, all students need a a calming space, a sensory room, a place to get that energy out of them. Are we taking those all out? What's going to happen with that? Are we relegating specialed then to classroom setting, which will be disgusting if that's what we do because they shouldn't be in closets? We're saying and we're saying we don't value our special ed community. So from what I'm hearing today, it sounds like lots of spaces will be cramped or no matter what move you make, you're going to have to split those kids up into different places. Even if you move Neil or if you move Samson, you're still splitting those kids up. They're still not moving whole and intact. >> Yeah. I I would I would like um to make sure that we are not unintentionally putting things into the space that may be considered a context that isn't ours. >> We're not Minneapolis public schools in this movement. the Robindale learning schools. We while it seems like this process has is moving fast, I think we've demonstrated over the past several weeks since we've begun this process that we've got a team working on all of that kind of stuff. Um, and I think we've demonstrated that um, particularly in the last two meetings that our special education population specifically is very important to us figuring out how do we do this correctly. And to that end, we've made no recommendation or insinuation that we'd be cramming our special education students into anything. Like you mentioned, what we did say is that depending upon what buildings are closed, we may or may not have to put music or art on cart, not special education in the closets, not special education into hallways, nothing like that. And I I have to put that out into the space because that that's just not okay to to categorize it. >> I was sharing my perspective and my viewpoint about what happened. It's it's a knowledgebased something, a learning experience. >> And no, wait a minute. I'm tired of my viewpoint being >> not recognized. >> Yeah, but I'm tired of my viewpoint being demeaned here at this table. >> Director, director. >> Yeah. So, just for as a followup to the contribution you've made, thank you for bringing that up. I know in one of the emails to the board, a superintendent a question was asked if Kates may be expected to move again in the next 3 to 5 years and it was a yes. Um can you expand on that a little bit? >> Yeah, I mean I think again again I just want to pull us back. We are in statutory operating debt. We don't have the luxury of not closing buildings. We don't have buildings at capacity. [clears throat] Our recommendations have been based on how do we ensure that we have ample space for all of our students in the schools that we have. But just want to back us up because of the multi-phase approach there. We we are making the decision. We are asking you, we are expecting you to make a decision to get us to reductions through site consolidation and operating fewer buildings in order for us to do this very first move that we can sustain. We can keep this move with or without a bond. In terms of the students, depending on what happens next year with the next conversations about what additional schools will we need to close or may need to close that then could disrupt more of the elementary boundaries, middle school boundaries. You know, we we don't know right now what's going to happen in those conversations that the board engages in after we get the statuto operating debt plan um voted on to say, okay, where are we now with the rest of this with the options around high schools, middle schools, magnet programs, elementaryaries? What ultimately then does that mean for in five years? where do we see the elementaryaries um that can house as they currently are or with additions for us moving forward. So we we can't right now make promises that there aren't students um that are going to have to move more than once. >> Thank you. All right. Let's see. Was director then director Bass then director >> I had my Okay. Um, so, uh, to the point that we have we voted to do a public hearing and we named those things that might be possible in the public hearing, that's by statute. We have to do that. There's nothing that says that we can't publish the followup if we if something's changed. That's set in stone. The mandate is to make sure you publish what could happen so your public is aware. So I mean I I I just think we want I appreciate clarity you know so people are confused. Uh so having said that um and understanding that there have been some decisions that were made I think too I think the decision to close the ESC and I think that decision to close still I think both were taken out of it. I just I mean I just >> they would be in the same >> I believe it was on votes for a public hearing >> for hearing but they haven't we haven't voted on those things yet >> not to my knowledge. >> Well mine either but I listen that's why I'm asking so I'm making sure because >> we did the initial >> I understand but I'm just saying I mean so thank you Kristen and thank you uh doc. Uh so that was my understanding but I wanted to make sure having said that you know um is this a good time for me to talk about buildings I think we should close. >> It's not a question for me. >> I mean because we're talking building closure and and it's a question that I will be asking at some point. This is a good point or >> this is a study session we're talking and you have the floor. >> Thank you. So my uh recommendation is that and if you rec we all recall uh the decision of the decision and then moving forward from our administration uh we received um you know we we learned that magnet schools are being taken off the table. I will admit I was surprised to hear that because we have had a conversation about not talking about program. I believe I said sitting up there a few weeks ago or so, it's last me, it's hard to separate program from building if some programs come with building. So in my mind, all the buildings are in play. And so given that, one of the things that I'm thinking about is when I look at how much it's going to cost to fix Sunny Hollow up, >> Sunny Hollow needs to be closed. Now we need to find someplace else for Roundville Spanish immersion. The district has had a commitment to Spanish immersion in four years. Spanish immersion used to be in Olen before C was C was Olson. They used to be there. They used to be at Ronaldell Middle School. They moved from Ronaldell Middle School to Sunny Hollow. So, and now Sunny Hollow needs a whole I think that's the one I was thinking of when I looked at how much money it's going to cost it. So phasing these things out where we're going to come to that decision later is it doesn't make sense to me. If it's going to cost that much money, we need to mothball that thing and then we need to put uh you know that uh you know the Spanish program in a different building that can accommodate it. My vote is for Robbinsdale Middle School because I think we can we can fit both Samberg and Robinsdale Middle School in Robbinsdale Middle School and we or and and I'm not I'm just throwing this out. I I'm I'm thinking things through and I haven't really gotten to that place yet. But the fact of the matter is we can get a whole lot of cost economies of scale at Robinsdale Middle School. We can put several programs in there including High View and of the Virtual Academy and a bunch of other stuff. So long-term implications for maintaining that space, a building that can accommodate growth no matter RMS either one of them grow. We don't know what's going to happen in the future. You know, people are getting older, me included. You know, people are moving out of those houses. The housing stock is on that side of the district. And so, if we can maintain that building, that's worth trying to raise some money to marry with the long-term facilities maintenance money if we need to do it for the long-term future of this community. The long-term future of this community argues for consolidation and consolidating in places that have capacity. Robinsdale Middle School has capacity. I got my little chart here and I did it by myself. Okay? It's not your quality is not your quality, but it's mine. So um when I look at you know and and I didn't have the information for RSI you know and so the enrollment right now as I looked at these charts is 711 but the building capacity I don't have that information it's on some chart but I didn't have it for my little chart I was putting together. So um RSI can fit in that building. uh you know uh let's just move that up to the side for the moment but but I do think it can be collated with Robin Hilldale Middle School the cap I did put it up here 1 1600 capacity of that building per per the administration of Samurn middle school the capacity is 1500 Plymouth Middle School has capacity of 1,290 students so um you know uh find an ideal location for RSI RSI has been housed before in those different places that I already mentioned before and I think that we are not in a position in this statutory operate operating position that we're in that we can take whole buildings off of the off the the cart that's going to cost a whole lot of money to fix. I don't think we're in that kind of position. I'm responding to what you said. We're in a statutory operating debt. We got to look at it all as far as I'm concerned. And so, um, I think that would require a policy committee to take another look and see what do we need to do, if anything with the, you know, enrollment policies that have to do with RSI, cuz we're not trying to stop anything, you know, uh, but at the same time, we don't want wherever RSI goes, we don't want it to overshadow whatever neighborhood boundaries that might be there, anything else. And we don't want all, you know, we don't want to have push and pull from all our other other buildings. Um, you know, I, uh, you can just summarize and I've got a whole little thing and I'll give it to you that I've got, um, you know, is that I think that we closed Neil and moved to Sonic. We closed Sunny Hollow and moved RSI to RMS. We closed Sandberg and moved RMS along with High View, Robinsville Academy, and RBA over there to RMS. All of those things can fit comfortably in uh, Robbinsdale Middle School. that building, if we can consolidate all those things and put up in that building, is worth fixing it up over time. It's worth it to this community for the long-term health of this community, you know. Uh and then uh Lake View remains an elementary school which is already positioned to be we don't have to retrofit anything and it doesn't need a whole lot of work. Uh you know, we can delay the ESC move uh until and consider that in phase two. there's no urgency, you know, and I do think there's a lot of data. I think Miss Hohisel started to talk about it and so did Dr. Doc over here, you know, about some of the site stuff and all the stuff that still needs to be contemplated. We don't even know that has to be contemplated with this move and Noval Elementary remains a neighborhood school. Um, I think that the wisdom of that I've heard from our superintendent that talks about the value in having key buildings located in key parts of this community is very valid. I I really appreciate hearing that for you because I believe it myself, you know. So, Noble needs to stay over at Noble. Uh Lake View needs to stay right where he is doing what it's doing. You know, all these other programs, high, all this other stuff can go right over to Robin's Middle School. It's worth the investment and it doesn't all have to be spent next year. We don't have to pay for all of it next year. So, you know, that's what I'd like to know more about is some of these things. So, assistant superintendent, here's your copy. >> Do you have a copy for all of us? >> Well, I didn't because I didn't want to be pushy, but I do have two I do have another. >> Okay. So I since Helen you started on that role I'm not as far along in my thinking on that as you are but I was thinking about like you know the Hopkins their district office is in one of their old schools. >> Yeah. And I'd rather not have to redo bathrooms but I was thinking Robinsdale Middle School could be where ESC moves. So, what would bathroom fixtures need to be set up for that ESC move if they move to Robinville Middle School and have them there and high view over there? And I really would like to I've said it lots of times before before we even got the report um from the B team is I really what are we doing to get rid of some of the properties that we like where where are we in that? cuz I said I would really like to see us out of that. I know like that warehouse, what was it last year? We were paying uh $52,000 a month in rent for that and every year it was supposed to go up. That was that was what I found in one of the uh sheets I got last year. >> Yeah, I >> director I I honestly don't I'm I'm not in a position to be able to quote the price on that, but yes, we have two lease properties right now. One is Crystal Learning Center. That lease is set to expire in 2031. >> So, the plan would be because it's 5 years or less at this point to ride that out to allow for all other transitions and then not renew that lease. And then uh with the warehouse space uh pending conversations uh that we have had in close session uh we are waiting to see how litigation rolls out before future decisions are made with that space. That was that's my recall on the warehouse. But yes, you're you're right. Um we have we we do have significant dollars in leasing. >> Yeah. And yeah, and could you give us the numbers then as to what is the monthly rent for that now? Because that was something that was given to us like a year ago or a couple years ago, I think when I first started it was the explanation as to why they went from multiple warehouses down to this one warehouse. And so I don't I think that $52,000 a month is more because I from what I understood from the lease every year went up. Every year it does go up. I will be happy to provide a to what we're paying for our leases. >> Okay. And then the Crystal Shopping Center space that we have, is that at least like a million a year? >> Not quite there. >> Not quite a million. Almost a million a year. >> I don't want to I can get you the number. It's not quite there yet. >> Yeah. If we could get the exact numbers on that because I even think like Yeah. If we're planning that that's going to move. I mean, Robbinsdale Middle School, I think, would have space to have ESC, High View, and the Crystal Learning Center over there is what I'm thinking. It's centrally located. There's, you know, a bus route close by. It's got a gym with some really nice equipment in it because it's used as a community gym right now that people in the community go over there to work out in. It also has like a wood shop workplace like you know and a gym like right now I don't even think the Crystal Shopping Center like where do the students over there do like date their adaptive physical education classes. >> Yeah. And that's why I just thought it would be nice for them to move to Robin Middle School. There's a gym, there's there's a [clears throat] gym gym and then workout gym like you know for our students who might need those kinds of things to work on their large motor skills. So that's I haven't I'm I have baby plan compared to yours. >> So Dr. Just a followup question for admin. Is any of this conversation falling into phase two type conversation? Can you shed light on that as far as what we do with facilities that may or may not become vacant? Yeah, I think I think it it could. I think again our recommendation the board ultimately has the vote is that is that RMS is a is a building that because of the significant means it doesn't exist. That doesn't mean that property isn't an amazing property to add something down the road. Again, we're we're getting ahead of ourselves, right? But we don't know what that can look like. That space right off right off the intersection of of 36 and 100 could be right an early learning center could be something with the trades pathways could be a elementary school, could be an enrollment welcome center. So there's a lot of opportunities on that space. Um, I know there's some land mitigation things that we'd have to look at um around the [clears throat] but again our our recommendation and I'm I'm hearing what Director Long and Director Ambassador are saying. Um our recommendation because of the condition of that building um and the significant concerns with that building is different than we've heard tonight is that there could be other uses for that to put the money into the building that would be needed. At this point isn't our recommendation. >> Dr. Brand, sorry about that. You missed your turn. >> Um yeah, so I have a handful of things. Um, first of all, yeah, RMS, if you look at the information we've given, needs over $30 million of work over the next 10 years. And it's not set up for modern education. It's not very handicapped accessible. I mean, it is retrofit for ADA, but it's not great if you're um if you have mobility needs, lot of stairs. Um, and if you look at slide five from tonight and you look at the things that are are guiding the guiding principles for choosing our sites and how um things were [clears throat] chosen uh one more back yeah you know the capacities and utilization enrollment operational costs and building conditions RMS is just not in the condition to be kept. I mean, I don't know if you guys have spent any time in there, but I run summer programs out of there. It's that was 10 plus years ago and it wasn't great then. Um, and then magnet schools, we talked about them. They were taken off the table weeks if not months ago. I I don't know why anybody's surprised by the conversation because their buildings again slide five are the capacity, the utilization is really high. So that's how they came off and that's you know um so I just I don't I get frustrated that we keep going back to the same conversations and that we're talking in circles. Um so you know we're kind of distracting ourselves with things instead of getting to where we need to get which is we have to make choices on closing schools. they have to um couple of questions though on you know when we're talking about splitting these schools if whatever iteration we decide and schools get split and because we have open enrollment the problem is of course busing but can we can certainly grandfather kids in to stay with their friends right so they could stay so let's say we close Lake View and most of the kids go to um Noble Um but if you boundary to Northport but they could stay they could choose to go to Noble right >> parent option >> parent option right >> or could we could we make that possibility busing would be a separate issue but I'm just saying in terms of >> numbers would they be too >> so you one we would have to look at numbers we would have to look at what processes the board at that point in time is keeping in play with regard to all schools And then we would have to follow the system and the process that's in place. >> So that might be something you know maybe if we could consider a way to grandfather people in so they could stay or you know it's not really grandfathering because the school is moving but if there was a way we could do that so that families who granted there wouldn't be busing but if they wanted to stay with their community that was a possibility just something to ameliate that issue would be really helpful. And then also just curious because you know I was looking at the numbers and it's hard to add up because of the splits but it looks like you kept in mind numbers but I was curious what amount of space is there like a percentage that you left open for growth or for that wiggle room or for that um the centerbased programming just just to get an idea of as you were planning those numbers how much room you [clears throat] building. >> Yeah. So what we are doing at this point is looking at potential rollups of students as best as we can make an assumption of kindergartens coming in, fifth graders leaving. Based on what those numbers would potentially be, what we're doing is saying this building has enough space to be a full three section school. So I mean it it's no more complex really at that point than that. We need three kindergarten rooms. Does that work? We need three first grade rooms. We need three second, three third, three, fourth, three, fifth. We do that. What does that leave us with for music, art intervention, special ed resource? Those are the next years. And the last one is how many how many centerbased rooms do we think we can fit into that space knowing that we have to plan not just for center base but for all the other types of rooms that come with the spatterbased room and space that is needed for that. So that's kind of how we work through the process. And then what ends up happening after that is can we boundary? We need to do stuff differently with boundaries. And that's where even for that centerbased slide where this will work with this building so that it's not over full and can have two centerbased classrooms which means can this building take four centerbased classrooms and be a four section school? What does that look like? It will kick into play things like, and this is brought up before, you look at Neil. Neil runs early adventure programming, right? We talked about that one. Um, so what what will we decide to do with early adventure programming if we say this building stays in place and we need those rooms? So we're not totally um when we do the calculation we assume every class is filled towards [clears throat] ratio. So that's where we end up getting some of the wiggle room is we know that not every class is going to end up at the ratio. We also look at things like potential bubbles coming through. Right? So I know I need three sections of kindergarten this year. What happens if I need four the following year? Do I have enough space in the subsequent classes to have that wiggle room of a classroom? So, all of that stuff comes into play. So, we can't pick them. We can't put the buildings in a spot where they're overly full, >> right? >> Right. Because we don't want to get to talking where >> just don't have any space. That's not good for any >> right. I just want to follow up with this. Okay. There's there's two things that I think as we're talking about this that I just want to bring up. Um we have because our buildings are so under underutilized right now. We have a luxury of space and there isn't an empty classroom anywhere. I'm telling you that right now because there haven't there hasn't had been which has been a great position for our schools and our staff to be in. [clears throat] It simply isn't normal. >> It it simply isn't an efficient way to run a school district. So that's that's one thing I want to state. Um the other thing that I want to state when we talk about boundary changes, the other thing that's very unique about the school district is in addition to um district magnet programming, we also have allowed indist transfers. So when we looked at those heat maps, you saw the number of students who are boundaried for a particular school yet choose a different school. So moving forward, um that's going to be continued discussion that we're going to need to have because it is hard to plan to make sure we've got enough space. we know because I'm accustomed to the predictability of knowing here's the number of residents students that we have in our district in this boundary which helps us plan differently. So there's just two things that I wanted to bring up. Again, no judgment to either of them. They're just unique to this school district that bring different challenges um to this conversation. >> See director Bet. >> Thank you. Um, so, uh, I really appreciate it, uh, Director Hillbrand, you bringing up the whole grandfathering end because seems like in almost any scenario there may need to be a little bit of that. So, I I'm glad you mentioned that because, uh, which brings my next point, which is about communication. And so, um, I like the way you've been staggering and planning certain kinds of things. I think staggered a staggered transition plan that really kind of outlines some of the things you just talked about in terms of communication. The public won't need to know maybe some of the things that we've asked, but some of the things that you just said about if this then that if this and that this is in the universe is what of what could happen. I think that that's useful for people to know and I leave it to the administration to figure out how that gets communicated. My comments kind of kind of go to some of the other things that have been said. Whatever we do as a board is going to reverberate in this community for the next for for till somebody else comes along and has to do something that different. Let's just say for the next 15 years, 10 15 years. It's going to be the reality. So for me, uh because the board did not vote on if we're taking magnet schools off the table. We didn't vote on that. That was something that I I trying to lean into what the superintendent is trying to do. So I'm really going to say no, you know, let's not do that. I and I assume my colleagues have been doing the same thing. So me kind of going along with kind of what's being said is in my spirit of trying to support our administration pure and simple. That does not mean that I'm going to abandon the values and ideas and thoughts that I have because that's why I'm here. So if I want to go back and revisit something or talk about something is not because I didn't hear what everybody else heard. I was here, you know, and it's not because I didn't value that. The reason I didn't push against it is because we didn't vote on it. I probably would have voted maybe something different, but I didn't have to. And so we're all been in supportive. And I I think we've all tried to be supportive. I know I am. You know, that does not stop me from coming back and saying, I think there's a different way we can do this. Can you consider it and take a look? And uh that's what all of us have the same opportunity to do. If every others are comfortable with what's been said, I'm not going to do, you know, it's okay with me. You're not getting any argument out of me. That's just what I do. >> Dr. So I just would like to know what the cost would be for grandfathering costly grandfathering in transportation for some people wanted to know what that would do on the transportation budget. >> I just want to follow up with director and the board around the crystal learning center uh lease information. Um so that is that has been it's a 15 year lease uh expires of 2031. Uh for the next five years it's a little 700,000 per year. Um from my experience uh in the previous district working with landlords we have leased agreements but this agreement does not have a termination clause. Um often times it's it's a full buyout to to terminate a lease. Um can't speak what the landlord will do. I know um I have worked with [laughter] landlord at Crystal Learning Center and they desire to have that those that space fully because it impacts their shopping mall. Um but I will say that that's the little over 700,000 for the next five years per year for the next five years with no buyout clause. >> So explain that clause piece. There is no there is no early termination clause for for the lease which is typical. >> So you have to go out the lease but then once the lease is up then you can decide either to re Yes. >> or just vacate >> and then there wouldn't be any fees associated with vacating >> movie your stuff. >> Yes. Yeah. And I want to know the costume. >> Yeah. It's not [laughter] it's not out of like the general fund. So it would save money to the general fund by correct not doing it and that's part of again the the next ring of conversations around okay if we close this building or this building you know and again looking at this year's decisions next year's decisions and then what about those other programs that currently are in lease spaces? What's that look like? How do we utilize our buildings for any of those programming? Um, so we'll have time to make those decisions while we're still um in that >> curriculum. So to kind of on that that same vein that you're talking about. So, I mean it would be nice too like you know if we have a property that maybe we know that if we do some upgrades to it like this would be the perfect property for the Crystal Shopping Center occupancy to move into like I think that would give us enough time then to whatever upgrade that property it is that we have so that we know it's suited for whatever that use should be >> and that's why don't disagree and that's why this first decision that the board makes will help us with that planning to say, okay, what are the buildings that are no longer being used um for an elementary or middle school? What else is possible looking at next year with the conversation of continued um closures potentially of buildings? So, so you're right, these this is the decisions right now to then help us make those next decisions. >> Director Basset. So um so I'm really so looking at this chart uh this is the one um building by building summary uh that uh was in our BG report. So this one. So that one. So what I'm wondering is that uh given this reimagine uh can we look at what costs would be uh reimagine with a 4-year target because year one to four by what is it that we think we need to do and perhaps that comes immediately after or it could even impact what we decide to close. But uh but immediately after that and I think we've had some conversation about how we know we're getting there in terms of the target we're trying to hit fiscally uh so that we're not coming right up to year five and then year five. So then we're looking maybe year five to seven. So this split of 1 to 3 years, I'm more thinking maybe 1 to four years because then we can kind of see how much, you know, how much some of these things would cost and we're going to close something, you know, so some things will close and that will impact these numbers cuz this the long-term facilities maintenance plan is just that. It's just a plan, you know, which can be changed, you know, so it's not set in stone because that's what it says now. And if we decide based on what our objectives are all collectively all together that we want to do X Y or Z then the plan should conform to what we hope to have or what we expect to have. And so just because this is what it says right now doesn't mean that's what it has to be. So, I mean, I think we should be clear about that, you know, and um and that's that's very important because I think that people banding around this $30 million 30 million, you know, I'm not so sure that that how how solid that is. Um and um the other thing is that now that we actually have a I don't mean to say that like that, but anyway, now that we have our finance departments that's digging in, I [snorts] am just not happy with having not be able to find certain records. That's crazy. At a $300 million operation, we should be able to understand and know how much money we spend year to year on construction of and what we're building it on because we know where we're going. >> And I'm just saying the long term, you know, I'm just saying. So, >> yep. I am too. I just want to be words matter. >> Yeah, I know. And what I'm hearing your concerns are >> are have nothing to do with the current CFO, the current facility. So I just I just >> a lot gets said and I just need to ensure that the staff that are here right now >> are being honored and respected for the work that they're doing. >> And I hope that you were feeling that, Kristen, because that's exactly what I was saying just what you just said because why says now that we have I'm I'm being very honest. I'm not, you know, I'm >> Helen, I believe you were being honest. It's not exactly what you said, but I I understand. >> Well, I was trying to be I was trying not to be derogatory toward anyone in the past because there are many people I respect in life who've done work with us over the years. So, that's not it at all. I'm saying we have a finance department that seems to be capable of helping us chart a path. I want to make sure the path that we are building this on is solid and and this board is the one that would determine what goes in this long-term facilities plan. So, you know, so just because it says what it says right now, it doesn't have to stay that way. And then I had one technical question. So when when the board passes a LTMF plan from year to year when we pass that plan and I know it goes to Department of Education, is it required in and because I've never known the answer to this is it required that if there are modifications to the plan because I've come to understand that modifications are made from time to time and our LTFM plan and it doesn't always come to the board. >> That's correct. >> Well, you know, there you go. I mean, I'm just saying. So maybe our finance. >> So I'm just saying that has implications for this board. >> We may decide we're going to keep on doing it the same way we've been doing it or we could decide that maybe what that's something we want our FAC to be involved in to help us with along with you. [clears throat] Um you know is to kind of look at what is the what is the cycle of looking at LPM and what what is the process for approving changes. I mean that's crazy. We don't I mean we may have passed the plan for the last 10 years and we don't even know if the plan that we passed was a plan that was stuck to. I [clears throat] mean I mean now that's hyperbole on my part >> or not. >> Well, I'm just saying you know I mean I'm just not into that. So >> May I respond? >> Uh so with >> and sorry point of clarification. Can you also clarify the what you were saying that's right to her about >> correct? Yes I will. I will. Okay. Um, so first off with the long-term facility maintenance plan, what the school board approves is not sightsp specific. You don't look at a building and I just the Sonos happens to be in my view. You don't look at Son and say this is the work we're going to do in this particular year. That's not what the board approves. That is not what the Department of Education receives. What the what the board approves and what the Department of Education receives are two different areas. One is what are we going to spend on health and safety type of items? Indoor air quality, asbestous abatements, uh life and fire safety. That's a there's a health and safety category. Again, it's a category. It's not based on site. Then there is what are the pro how much are you going to spend on projects in a particular year? So, we might say, um, we're going to spend so much money on HVAC or we're going to spend so much money on painting or we're it's typically it would be highly unusual for us, let's go this way, what I have seen in this district, it would be highly unusual for us to identify a site and specific projects that lend itself into the plan that the the 20 foot level plan that gets approved by the board and goes to the department of education. So when there are modifications and there are modifications, there are modifications based on the level of approval of which the board and involvement happened. So yes, modifications happen and if they're not material, the Department of Education does not come back and say, "Hey, wait a minute. You said you were going to spend this much in a category, you shifted some of that to a different c. They allow some >> sure >> some deviation >> to respond to and it hasn't at least the last few years of the plan. I would say there has been more than standard deviation of projects changing from the plan to what has actually happened. And then those were [clears throat] all the times you came for us and said there's this change. >> No, I was not here to say to do that. I've only been here earlier. So I was not able to. But in the time that you have been here cuz I remember a couple times you've come before us and you said we need to change this in the LTFM or we need to change this in the So when those changes happen, you bring them to the board. >> I certainly try to. Yes. >> Yes. So, so just as a followup, I'm not suggesting that right here tonight uh that even that we change anything or do anything different. I'm not suggesting that my comments. I really was really just remembering and considering what I have come to understand about some of the past practices and how they have not served a board in my opinion well. And I'm taking some ownership in that because I've been a board member. But I'm saying but then now that I see that I'm wanting to make it very clear that the process for how the LTFM projects go forward the kind of reporting that comes to the board and any checks and balances that make sense. I mean I you know I'm not a micromanager. I like to talk but I'm not a micromanager you know. Uh so I'm I'm just saying I think those things merit discussion uh because it it puts our CFO and our administration in a difficult spot. So uh and which then leads me to say that I think to to if I understand correctly this LTFM plan that we have that's in front of us that's predicated by some previous numbers that previous people came up with uh we don't have to be wedded to that. Now, we don't we're not going crazy and we're going to look at it. But I'm not moved by the $30 million tag. Quite frankly, I'm not. And and uh because I think that is is it somewhere in there? Yeah. But can the does the board have the authority to go to to do a combination of LTFM dollars for what could be accommodated by LTFM dollars and then to ask for revenue if we need it? And I'm not suggesting any of that. I'm just saying I I don't I don't I don't see don't want to see our board in a box moving towards something that we think is the holy grail. You know, when we have a bunch of considerations that you brought to the table, this administration have with regard to um some of the the savings we need to have from consolidation and we're closing schools and we're going to have to do more. We need some make some more changes as we go down the road. And as you just said, superintendent, some of those changes, we don't know what some of the things we'll have to do. We don't even know yet. >> We'll hear about them. >> We've got a decision now. >> Next month. That's that's what we're trying to help provide information that y'all need so that the board can make this decision right now. >> Two points of clarification that I think are very valuable to the conversation we had. one I am fortunate of which past administration was not and now I have a comprehensive facility assessment. >> Yes, I have a very detailed comprehensive facility assessment. So I have an advantage you know to be fair to prior administration that did not happen before um or or wasn't necessarily available. So I just want to make that clear is I clearly have you make better decisions with better information. It's just as easy as that. Um, and the other component to all of it is the best of planning does not necessarily prevent >> any sort of failure that isn't predictable or expected in that moment. Again, deviations from prior plans that may have happened for various reasons of which I'm not aware. >> So, I've said this before, you guys have heard me use this terminology. It's easy to be the Monday morning quarterback and say you would have done it differently. I just have better information and I'm was answering it to the best I can appropriately and honestly to say yes, it's changed but they had a different playbook than what I have. And the only point I'm making is that now that we're building a new playbook, there's some things I think the board should be aware of and kind of even if we say we're just going to keep doing it the same way we've done it, a conversation. It's just a conversation. So just to further clarify, the LTFM plan that we have now where these numbers came from >> is brand new that was built this year with new information from that >> facility assessment >> from the facility assessment plan. That is correct. >> This is most accurate up-to-date information that you could have filled out. >> Just clarify. >> Yes, that's correct. >> Thank you, Director Bong. So I just wanted to go back to the SOD conversation. So we can make changes and adjustments to whatever SOD plan we make as we go along. Well, I think that te's it up for the slide that I've been looking at now for us to finish with the the SOD conversation. Then if we don't hit it directly along then then please come back to that. But I just want to be respectful to make sure that the first chapter of this study session is we're ready to move into the the financing conversation. Okay. Wonderful. So the slide uh that is up on the screen right now that you have seen uh in a few meetings at least previously um I'd just like to draw your attention to. The reason being is again it gives the trajectory of what happens annually and what if we do nothing. Um what I would like to point out for 2425 and I had said this at the last meeting which happened to be the same meeting of which we were audited was we are uh a negative $11 million in our unreserved undesated fund balance. That is not what we were talking about when we were talking about the range of 19 to 21 million deficit. It wasn't what we were talking about when Dr. Stalo and I were at the town hall meeting saying we had over spent. It contributed to that. That's what put us there. But that is our fund balance. That's our savings account. We're $11 million deficit in our savings account. That's how we finished June 30th. Now move into July 1. Our savings account stays that balance. And that's why you see the blue in 2526. That's our fund balance. That's our savings account. that doesn't change now until this year um based on the preliminary budget, we are looking at um having not made uh $5 million in reductions. So when we were out saying we needed to cut 19 to 21, uh we estimated that we cut just shy of 16. That's the difference, right? So at the end of this year based on preliminary budget, I promise you a revised budget is in the works right now. So those numbers will refresh. Um but based on the information we have today, we would finish the year in the unassigned category, our new savings account would become a negative6 million. Does that make sense to everybody? Okay. >> Seems more like a credit card than a savings account. Well, maybe maybe but but again there's I know there gets to be confusion to the what is ongoing and what are we trying to reduce and what are we actually carrying. So I tried to use um a different terminology that might help people understand understand it better. So, as we look at next year, as we look at 2627, we're saying, "Okay, we've done what we can do for this year, and we believe a negative $16 million fund balance will be our starting point for next year." If we do nothing, we know that the yellow, if we didn't cut 5 million this year, that 5 million is going to carry forward into next year. And then, oh, by the way, there's rollup costs. there's increased cost to everything. Um spec, you know, like you think of utilities and um any sort of inflation, roll up cost to contracts, that sort of thing, which again doing nothing continues to just exacerbate what that negative number is. So what has been stated to the board, and I'll hand this over to Dr. for the next slide is at a minimum at a minimum as we look to uh do SOD planning the board needs to cut $8 million. We have 9 million as the roll across on uh the slide. 8 to 9 million. Again, right now we're just playing in projections. As time goes on, numbers get more solid. We can hone in on the differences. Um but I'll flip to the next slide, which is recommendations of over $8 million for [laughter] this coming school year. So you can see on this slide and again we we've shown this but we wanted to spend some time tonight talking about it is the the board ultimately um as you uh vote for closure we're anticipating again the two two elementaryaries and a middle school will be about a $2.5 million of that over 8 million. Um, additionally, uh, administratively, we're recommending, um, the international balorate, um, be reduced. We'll maintain for seniors at Cooper High School, um, 42627 in order for them to finish their programming. Um, but that would be uh, another place uh, administratively that we would recommend reductions. We also have been spending a lot of time um administratively analyzing um scheduling staff efficiencies uh at the secondary level particularly um and looking at uh what we believe can be or work toward an over $2 million efficiency. some of that. One of the conversations we talked about last year and it's back talking about this year is um looking at instructional services through different scheduling. Um looking at a sixth period day, some of those things for for many reasons including um staffing efficiencies at the elementary level. Um also looking at uh ways to gain some some efficiencies through scheduling and staffing use. You can see the $400,000 um mark there. And then additionally beyond those uh reductions within staffing our schools, looking at a 500 mil or 500 million, it's not going to be 500 million, but a $500,000 um reduction in non-instructional staff. Um so those administratively are are some of the items that we are looking at um and recommend moving forward with in order to get to that over 8 million reduction. The next three pieces there um are about access for students. So looking at uh transportation, the magnet transportation, uh magnet transportation, we've called out the the Plymouth Middle School where um that is uh uh the Spanish merging piece of that and then Minneapolis open enrollment transportation. So, um, as we think about again the task tonight, as we talked about in the first [clears throat] half of this site consolidation, um, that's a 2.5 million of the over 8 million that as, um, our CFO just shared, uh, we we need to get to that target because whatever we don't do continues to get worse and if we need we need to get out of statuto. [cough and clears throat] >> Dr. Mom, >> can you explain to me what do you mean by non-instructional staff? >> Um, that might be um some of our districtwide staff at the ESC. It might be some of our other departments um but maybe some school staff but because we talked about it mostly not classroom teachers. >> Correct. Okay. So, will we finally start reversing the data that we have that shows as enrollment went down, admin went up? >> Would that be included in the non? >> It might be. I think I could I would love to bring back next next time we're together where those administrative reductions already took place over the last two years and the reductions specifically out of the out of this bill. So, I'd be happy to share some of those comparables to make sure we're um seeing the numbers of administrative reductions over the last two years and reductions to the ESC bill. But there certainly could be administrators um in in that amount as well. >> Okay, I have a few questions. Um, sorry. Um, one thing about the sixth period day idea, I know I saw some stuff come up about what does that do for electives for students. I know we're talking about being arts district, you know, then that limits kids ability to take part maybe in multiple like band and orchestra or band and choir or whatever. So just curious about what that impact could be and um how that might look also if we're um you know this the magnet transportation specifically to PMS. So kids then wind up going to Samberg will there be advanced reconsidering advanced Spanish options over at Samberg? So, can kids continue their Spanish learning in another way if they have an interest? Just curiosity. I don't even know how many kids continue. Um, and then just another just something to think about in terms of like the magnet transportation because if all the parents then are pick up and drop off or many of them are, you know, the implications to how that pick up and drop off would work because if you're having all parents parking and going in and picking up kids, that's a lot to manage and how does that look and how does that look with the roads too >> for the city? So, not saying just just things to think about, not necessarily. >> Yeah. And I'll let I think team's ready to speak to any of those right now. Thanks. And if not, we'll come back and and again, I just want to um Bob says that uh better than I do. But again, um there are just no good options here. >> Yeah. And I don't think those are like barriers. They're just things to consider. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, thank you for that. Is there anybody who wants to speak to anything around the scheduling right now back here? Are you okay? >> Sure. I I can I I know the sixth period day was discussed at middle school last year and and you know middle school philosophy is really around exploration and making sure that students have access to a variety of elective options. Um and so that would be a priority if that's the shift to go from a seventh period day to a sixth period day is how do we maintain those really robust elective options? There are ways to do it depending on if you run some of your electives on an AB with schedule which we already do some of that now. Um and really selecting a elective set for our middle schools that um allow that kind of choice and flexibility um that we really believe in at at the middle level would be be essential in that conversation. One of the things that we're discovering is that um um again something I'm absolutely not accustomed to is we're running different programming in different electives at different schools in the same school district. So something I'm not accustomed to at all that um you know I think we're trying to also as we're building forward what is the school district our kids want and need and deserve. How do we provide some equity around that and make sure that as we're not only trying to get some efficiencies in scheduling and staffing, we're also really looking at programming to say, "Okay, we want we want equitable access. We want to ensure that we're listening to our students. We're listening to to families and the workforce to say what what are those things that kids are both interested in and are going to help them down the road." So, um, as we're doing this work, we're just uncovering a lot that I think I think is a a part of making hard decisions, but using this opportunity to also build our system to something stronger. >> So, um, can you say more about magnet transportation? I want to make sure I understand what you're saying. >> Um, what we're recommending is to eliminate transportation to magnet schools. So all parents would have to get their own kids there. Whatever. >> What if they're in that boundary area? >> There is no boundary area. >> That that is why um PMS is called separately. PMS is the only building that has magnet programming where they actually have an attendance area. When looking at Fair Crystal, Fair Pilgrim C, or RSI, none of them have neighborhood attendance areas. They just don't want to see. >> They do not anymore. >> Okay. >> But how would that look? that would look as it that the students would need to find different accommodations other than the school district transportation to go to those buildings. So no buses would >> permit if they lived in the attendance area and were part of the language immersion then they would >> then they get lost because they're in the attendance area. Correct. >> I'm just thinking like a C, right? That would be one. So you would have to make sure there's tons of parent drop off or I mean what would that look like for that building? And there's and they they do have I mean there is as we get into the lottery process there is um there is priority to students that live in those neighborhoods you know so you do have walkers um but otherwise yes it would be it would be parent drop off >> then would we have to make plans around that because I'm of course some parent drop off [laughter] >> well and at Mebrook that's pretty intense. because like blocks off roads. >> We had we had huge parent drop off [clears throat] both sides of the building and the city council got involved in it because there were such small lines and we had to buy two more buildings to >> give us more space. >> Some of those lines I was super I was outdoor. [laughter] >> I think that goes back to right what Dr. McDonald was talking about before is just impact you know of everything we do there's impact. So, there are no longer 19 buses that would come in because currently there's 19 buses that come into those schools. Um, but yep, there we definitely have to figure out and support what that pick off and drop off that like 60 kids on a bus and 19 buses. >> No, because they're magnet buses and they go throughout the entire district, there's less kids and they share buses between two different sites. Otherwise there's like mind number of kids that would be >> well again we know the enrollment we currently know the enrollment of those those buildings. >> Dr. >> has there been any discussion on if what the impact will be if any of these parents then opt out of these magnet programs to move to their local or neighborhood schools. >> Yeah. What we did what we did and I'm not saying that we would do it this way but one of the things we did last year when um when the decision was made around uh minimizing Minneapolis uh transport transportation for open enrolled students in Minneapolis. Kristen, I know you took a percentage of we assumed a percentage of students and part of that was more for some of the enrollment projections, but we assumed a percentage may not attend our school district anymore. So we we'd have to look at that and get some input, you know, from families about what they would be planning on doing as we then plan um forward. And that would be the key. And that's what we did even as we moved into this year from the transportation changes last year. We have a bit more time is we would literally be reaching out to all of the families to say, >> "What is your plan?" So we can make plans accordingly. I mean to the best of that that feedback and information. Great. Yeah. Dr. Director Brand. >> Yeah. So I think these are really hard decisions and I know everybody is saying the same thing, right? Because when we go back to some of the previous slides and looking at the amount of neighborhood kids that we are losing to these programs. So if we end up closing their neighborhood schools and they opt out of these maid programs then what >> those answers >> we may or may not have solutions to right now right but I think if I cast my mind back to the vision team's proposal one of the ultimate recommendations will be to make all our schools neighborhood schools so we don't have is shifting where like Lake View has 52% kids that could go to Lake View that are going somewhere else, right? Which is the best out of all the other schools that were mentioned. Some like 32%. >> 68%. Right. Like I don't think yes schools will have to close and one or two or three schools will have to close pulling the magnet program transportation right now. What will that do to these decisions that we are making today? I think that's risky >> if we are not considering just rebounding and then who fits into what building before we make that decision. >> So I'm going to I would like to jump and I'll go through I wasn't going to do this until we got through the next slide but I think I think it might help um if everybody can look at and I'll read for the audience because I recognize that everybody here does not have a copy. go to the onepage handout that I've provided that says statutory operating debt sample resolution. And so what I would do is draw your attention to the bottom third of the page that said and this again this is what the work what the board is going to need to subscribe to by the end of January. Now therefore be it resolved board of education of the school district one approves the attached special operating plan and accompanying SOD recovery spreadsheets and transmits them uh transmits same to MDE. Of course that will be part that will be our plan as we lay out the five years. Number two, agrees to reduce current year expenditures by all legal means possible without negatively impacting current programs or contractual obligations. Number three, agrees to immediately discontinue the PA practice of approving deficit budgets. And as I stated, the best estimate right now is we're a deficit budget annually of 8 to9 million. Number four, creates an unreserved fund balance target. Then you fill in the percent after the removal of SOD. Number five, agrees to a dollar fordoll cut in the current and future budgets to respond to a negative variance in revenues and expenditures as displayed in the SOD plan. Number six agrees to use any aid formula improvement from the legislature to reduce debt. uh seven agrees to remove the condition of f SOD by the end of fiscal year blank to achieve a positive fund balance by blank that's 5 years old. Eight, requests specialized training as appropriate. And nine, agrees to submit preliminary budgets to the Minnesota Department showing the discontinuence of deficit spending prior to their formal board approval each subsequent year until the removal of negative fund balances. Ultimately, what that says is you cannot approve an unstructurally balanced budget. We don't have the latitude to go underneath certainly not underneath the eight. We'll be lucky if it's eight >> by by June and you need to do you need to approve this by January and the and the department will see this by June. There is not an option. Just keep that in mind as you're having conversations because at the end of the day, this is where we are. And it's and it's it's stinky. Really stinky, but it it's where we're at. Okay, let's see. Haven't been crossing games. I have um and Grand. >> Okay. I was just going to say about the magnet transportation. I'm I'm torn on it, but I understand that we probably need to do it. I think that on one hand, we know that our magnet families tend to be more privileged than our other families, so they probably have more access to transportation. I don't know what percent actually already do parent drop off and pickup. That would be interesting to know, but I'm guessing that it's a higher percentage than our average school. Um, so the impact will probably be less. Um, I'm disappointed because it disproportionately then impacts our families who are less affluent at those schools. Um, but I think that, um, with everything that we are facing and as you said, as it says on the paper, all legal means, I don't know that we have that much choice. Um, but I I do see that while it's negatively affecting our our students, it is negatively affecting as a group our more affluent students who probably have more means um as a group more than our our our less affluent students. So, at least that's a better place to hit than our [clears throat] title schools, for example. So, I don't know if that makes anybody else feel better, but that makes me feel a little better. >> Dr. Bowman. Yeah, to just piggy back on what you're saying, we certainly have received enough um commitment and evidence from the parents at listening time through all of the emails that we received from all the data and sort of like mini reports that were written about parent engagement and involvement and how that's so huge compared to and that was one of their concerns was that we're here involving all of our time Um, and so that really makes me believe that this is as painful as all of this is, this will be a a least painful spot because it seems to me that's what the message has been sent from the the parents is that they're not afraid of their own engagement and involvement in grade levels. >> I just have a a clear question. And I know some decisions have been made already about staff implications during our last board meeting. I'm wondering what the morale is in the schools have been closed. Has administration visited them? Like is there any feedback that the board can get from cuz we know at least RMS is at least being proposed, right? Has there have been any observations made as far as staffing science teachers showing up English? >> Um I mean I I our staff are in a hard position. Our families are in a hard position. Everybody sitting at this table is in a hard position. And there's certainly going to be impacts. um questions that have been asked about how will we pay attention to the transitions. Um you know, so those are conversations, conversations that we've had working with our principles to make sure they have key messages and information that they need as they're working daily um with their staff. Um you know, we're certainly getting the emails and reading the emails that come to us. It's not all of them that the board gets, but but we uh have certainly gotten some as well. >> I think I think staff, families, everyone waiting for the decision on December 15th and then to be able to move forward from there and then knowing administrative decisions are made, staffing, then the plan, the process, procedures roll out from there. As I said at the last board meeting, um we have a lot of decisions come January around student registrations and then the staffing process based off of that. So the the momentum will start rolling as soon as that decision is made hopefully um on after the hearing on December. >> And I think that's I'm glad you brought that up Amy. I think that when you don't have answers for people, and right now we don't have answers, we are committed to ensuring that we're at least able as soon as this decision is made to share process so that our staff know what is that process look like um for determining where they will be. Um also naming um as early be even before that where principles will be uh because that often impacts staff decisions on things as well. And I think just to clarify, the reason I'm asking that is not knowing that staffing decisions will be made in the future, right? But looking at myself, if I was in a clinic that is earmarked to possibly close, right, if my supervisors are showing up at least answering some questions and maybe the time is not due yet, right? That may be a little more reassuring for me to keep doing what I'm doing versus they don't care about us, right? We are already gonna be possibly tossed out. So, nobody's showing up. That's kind of where I'm coming from. Have you guys been in any of those? >> I will say to have a feel. Go ahead. >> After last Monday, we were Dr. McDow, someone brought up the fact that Noble wasn't on the list of schools and so it was very clear that we needed to get to the staff at Noble prior to them hearing about it from somebody else. So Dr. Stallow and myself were at a stand-up meeting with Noble staff at 7:15 the next morning before they were able to hear or heard from somebody else outside of district leadership. So yeah, we are making sure that the staff is hearing from us and they are being supported as much as we can in this unknown waters that we currently are in until we have a direction. >> And the other thing we've asked, you know, and we've asked our leaders from the beginning is what do you need? Is it better if we're in the buildings or worse? Because I know there's [clears throat] times that I walk into them and they don't want to see me. So like like part of that is right, is it better or worse? We're in buildings as much as we can be regardless. It was interesting though. This was an interesting experience. Friday night I was at the round dance and I had two students from RMS who came up to me at the round dance and said, "Why are you why do you want to close my building?" And that was a tough conversation and I was grateful that they came up to me and asked me and um a really good reminder to keep showing up so that those students and staff who asked that question, there's nothing about any of us that want to close the school. Um but it was I'm glad I had a chance to tell the students that and [clears throat] explain a little bit about why. No, it's a great question, a great reminder to us. Thank you. I also think it helps that because I've been in the district for 29 years that staff, a lot of staff have a relationship with me that they're able to ask some very honest and frank questions and know that I will give them an honest and frank answer back. And um it's not always the answer they want to hear, but it's going to be the honest answer at the at that moment in time. Director Long and then Director Bessa. >> So, I just wanted to go back on a comment made earlier. So, when you look at the cuts to non-instructional staff, we're going to really focus on some of that administration piece to >> I'm not going to make any promises right now about what those positions are going to be. We certainly have in the 15 months that I've been here looked at administrative cuts and I'll bring back some data so that we can ensure that everybody sees where where administrative cuts have also been occurred. Um, and I'm saying I'm not saying it is and I'm not saying it isn't going to be um administrators because I would definitely like to see that data match like you know when enrollment went down teachers also went down but administration increased. So that just doesn't seem right when we have the educators who are there the teachers support staff who are there working with students. But we've had two years of administrative big cuts. >> I think that >> since then I think that my recollection when we looked at historically if you go back 10 years that was a trend but from my experience over the last couple of years it has not been a trend. But I I remember some of the initial data that we saw going back 10 years that show saw an increase in administration even with enrollment declining. that has not been over the last two years that has not been my experience. Um but I think I think when you bring back what we what we have shown that we got that but I I remember seeing that from that like a 10 year window of where we have been from enrollment to where we were staff. >> Something I'll keep bringing up >> until I see the data change. So >> I think it was in program coordinators specifically that helps you as you're looking into the data. Um, did you >> I I was just going to say that we also have to be cognizant of we're talking dollars and not buys, >> right? >> I can I can spend less money potentially and have five people and I can spend more money and have one person. I can do the opposite as well. So, it isn't really about the numbers of people as much as it is if we're trying to cut $500,000. regardless of how we're restructured, are we cutting the $500,000? That's really at the end of the day what we're after. >> And I also only mention that because for example, um, community schools require a community schooler coordinator. So that could for example, and that's funded by grants, right? So I don't know how many you have, three, two, but the point is that you have a few. They're in each building that has a community school program, right? And even though it's grant funding, that shows up in numbers of people. So that also can falsely um without knowing all the things that are in it can reflect differently in data. So I I don't know that that's the case necessarily in that particular slide, but >> I just wanted to note that I didn't jump out of my chair when someone else. >> Thank you for being so patient. Dr. Bass. Okay. So, um, so my question kind of has to do with that first recommendation, two questions. One is based on the other building closures that I suggested, super assistant superintendent, you're going to go back and take a look at what that means. >> I have that on my notes. I just what I'm assuming. And then the other thing is that uh whether the ESC repurposes or not, if they don't repurpose, that means that we're not going to have I don't know what does that do to that number. 2500. I mean, I I maybe I'm missing something. >> The the ESC transitioning to another building. >> Yeah. >> Honestly, doesn't because back to the bodies are the bodies, right? So then it comes down to the operational costs of the building. You're talking about uh c whatever you have in custodial staffing. You're talking your utilities, you know, pl that that so the ESC move in and of itself is not a significant operational. It's a savings, but it's not like it's not like closing a building. What it does in the in the scheme of the recommendation is it it marries with the high view RBA conversation which changes how that looks but >> exactly right but right now the building as it operates now and based on the repairs that View needs it's okay and but for the fact that ESC wanted to relocate there and put some programs in there that wouldn't be on the I'm just saying I mean because there's no reason you know we don't have to fix it we don't do anything you know other than what's the maintenance is there so >> for for what for what which what for which >> but for moving programs out of it but for moving our students out >> right now it functions as an elementary and it's doing fine so >> any site that we any any elementary that we that we were closed we would consider moving the ESC and hydro to those buildings Exactly. So I guess my only point was the buildings. >> Yeah. But which makes my point. I'm just saying I don't know that the ESC is going to change that number significantly the savings. >> It won't. >> Well, that's not that was what I was saying. That's my understanding. >> The only the only reason that it would though is because if you don't repurpose it with High View, now you're running a building that High View goes into and you're running the ESC building. However, we assistant superintendent, we have capacity and space in some of our buildings that are underutilized where those programs could go. It would be different if we were filled to the maximum power at every building. There are options just like we said the ESC if we close buildings, the ESC can be placed in any, you know, programs that have space. We don't have a space problem. So I mean I I don't want I mean I I don't want to go way down that road but you know there's nothing to change that savings is not going to come from ESC moving. >> Well there's a portion of it that's that's inclusive of all but there's a port we there's a portion of savings >> and it may get us again now I'll say this and then we'll be selling the building tomorrow I'm sure but there's also you know we we've got to decide long term what to do with this building. So if we vacate it sooner, it potentially gives us more opportunity to study that faster. >> True. But at the same time, if we look at the once we close these because closing these buildings, the elementary schools and the middle school is the big is the big ticket. That's the big ticket. Once we make those decisions, deciding what comes next because we still have to decide we're going to do it not only in the ESC, all of the land. I mean, that's a bigger discussion that probably, as you have said, is going to happen in phase two. you know, I mean, I'm not saying anything that you haven't already said, >> except in the very beginning, from the very beginning of the phase one, the EST is a part of that. >> Well, that's how you envision it and and I'm just saying that mean I've never changed my comments about it. I don't think it's a wise choice to make and I think we've got time to make it and I think, you know, looking at what happens with the land is part of a bigger discussion. That's that's my only point and I'm not moving from that, you know, but but my main brief way to bring this up was to say that the SC on that top list really doesn't get us what these closing those elementaryaries and the middle school does. That's really what gives us the big ticket savings. That's it. And it's going to cost us money to repurpose Lake View and split children. So, you know, that's not I'm not, you know, this I I already said it. I don't need to be laborant, but I I don't I'll agree. >> Director, so I have two questions. So the one is just as >> sorry. >> I [clears throat] have two questions. Um the one question is about so if we have ESC and high view together then we get a tax break, right? >> Yeah. not taxable. >> Not taxable. >> Only schools are not taxable. This building doesn't have a school in it. So, as far as I understand, >> educational purpose is right the true definition of >> so we pay tax. >> So, would there be a tax break in having a district office and a school together? >> Uh, if it was different than the current standard, yes, that would be the answer would be yes. If it's different, okay, could we get information on that? Yes. Okay. My other one is how then do we prevent if we have a school that we're going to sell, how do we prevent charter schools moving into it? We have a plan for that or is there any way that we can prevent that or is that something we cannot prevent? I would say that is up for board conversation on when you get to a point of turning around to sell the property. What are the terms of the sale and the consider I [clears throat] mean all of that is for future conversation on on how you choose to >> so it is possible to set it up so that charters will not move into our buildings. I I mean I don't know if it's you can send the truth. >> No, I am not remotely prepared to say what is the legality of confirmation of [laughter] >> I can say the board can make the decision on who we own a piece of property and we choose not to sell to sell it to someone that would be no different. I just don't >> then they sell it to our church. >> Yeah. I Yeah. I don't >> but you know to that point though I'm sure chair we when uh we sold the land the district sold the land I mean when the district sold the land that the north 287 property is on there's some clauses that would put into there and really was a lot of it was informed by our then finance advisory council working with the school board and the administration everybody working together nobody off on a tangent but um clauses are put in that so that that can happen >> right even 287 runs that program over there. >> But uh I mean is not wrong in that a transaction once removed can't it would be really challenging to put tails on a transaction or ex you know like that's who you sell the property to. It doesn't mean who they sell the property to. >> I'm just saying there's some clauses and things can that can be put in there because we did it. So I I don't have the little document here by [clears throat and snorts] >> Y >> did you have something >> are they still in the middle of >> so I think the fi one of the final final slides is what happens and this is where it's this year coming into 26 27 is exceptionally challenging right um in part because we don't have our vision uh created yet the board has not created that vision they have recommendations um but what we do know based on uh the what we'll have to do with an SOD plan um and the resolution that comes with that we do know that we have to get to balanced and the good news with that is the compounding component goes away. >> Right? So even though we're looking at a significant reduction coming into next year, once we adjust that, then you're looking at essentially your inflationary increases and then whatever you do beyond that starts to dig your way out. So different than the other slide where you see the red in growth here, I would like to pose it as a uh an opportunity to start envisioning what we can become and how to get out of what we're do how how we can do things differently to start crawling our way out. So it's a significantly challenging year. Once done, we don't have big hunks necessarily of dollars to achieve at least in a year's time. we start to stretch it out and gain efficiencies as we establish what the design of the district will look like over the course of the next five years. That is the intent of this one. So, as we start closing up, um we have and this is the IROD training that the board received. We've tried to stay true to that framework throughout the process. We've continued to provide additional information as requested by the board. Um we are getting reactions to uh that information. Um I'm confident we're going to get more reactions. The board will get more reactions from from our community. Um shared options from what was requested last time as we look at those four elementaryaries. um additional options and questions were brought forward that we will then come back and provide additional information for get those reactions and get more information to you. But at the end of the day, we have no choice but to make decisions on that. So, right now with what we'd like to know, and I know I've been tracking some notes, I'm confident my my colleagues have as well, but what additional information is needed from y'all that is pertinent to the decision at hand, this first decision um about two elementaryaries, middle school closures and some of those other funding um mechanisms. Good question to clarify. So in December we will vote on the two elementaryaries and we will vote on those [clears throat] >> the transportation transportation operating plan. Yeah. >> And >> and again and and again actually so if you look at that if you go back could you go back to that slide. Um so the board has to vote on the closures. um we're making um recommending administrative decisions around the staffing and the scheduling um programming. You need to uh take a look because of the access point on the transportation. And again, what we need to know is if not these, how else do we get to at least 8 million? If we could get to 9 million this year, that would be fantastic. So what else do we need to know? Dr. Basset with you. >> So uh one of the questions that I have is because we closed Sunny Hollow before building it now is pre-purpose RSI. would we have to notice that we're moving them to someplace else? So, that's a question. And then, um, I would like another recommendation other than the removal of three that gets to the $300,000 for the IV program. So, um, I'd like to ask you all to contemplate what that what other thing you might put on the table. I was just going to say just curious about why since if regardless of lake view if RMS well I guess you want to keep RMS but not as I'm just confused if RMS isn't going to be operating as a middle school and that's the IV middle school there isn't the bridge program so it doesn't make sense to continue to run IB as a through program so that's [clears throat] why I'm trying to understand why you want what why that makes sense to >> well it makes sense to me because I don't think we should abandon the IV program. That's the simple answer and so that's I don't agree >> and and so I'm asking the administration and I don't need to explain that to you. >> No, I'm just trying to understand and so I don't maybe it's not understandable to you because you don't feel the same way and that's okay. >> No, no, no, Ellen. I'm actually just trying to understand. So where would it be? How would it work? So I can understand >> because then that's why I asked the administration and not director Hilbrand and so I can have a conversation with the superintendent which I will and I can have a conversation with the assistant superintendent and Miss Becky you know uh I can have a conversation with them about it and talk more about what I think about the IB program and and I intend to do that. So because I believe in that program and I think we should try to say that >> that's the answer. So I mean it's no more mystical than that. >> I'm just I I assume at some point we'd want to vote on it. So I'm trying to figure out how how >> right now we're not ready because I'm just raising it as that's why it's a question. >> And I think that's part of you know as I said I believe that first line the school closures is a board vote. >> Yeah. Um, the next three, the IV, the scheduling, staffing efficiencies, realignment, and reductions of non-instructional staff. Those are administratively what we are planning on doing. So, the vote of it is get us to 8.12 million, get a statutory operating plan made, but I don't see you voting on that parts of it. Um and but then the transportation piece that will be because it's about access for students uh we'll need the board to welcome you again superintendent. Thank you for that because that was my my request and I was asking that about the IB program and I responded to director Hill but to go deeper with that I really would like to have some more conversation with you about the IV program. And as you just pointed out we don't have to vote on that. That's an administrative decision. Although we all want to be in so anybody who doesn't agree and doesn't like it can you know can you talk about it later I I agree with Director Basset like I would like to know what else we could change for the Ivy program because who's to say that there's not, you know, maybe you want to at Sorry, I always get Sandberg, right? Samberg. Who's to say that there wouldn't be an offshoot at Sandberg or PMS or whatever that could lead into Cooper? Um, I know that last time we talked about cutting the IV program, there was a huge response from the community. They were highly upset about that. Um, and there's there's some value in it for our students of color. So, I I think that I would I would like to see what else maybe we could do about that. I'm also [clears throat] concerned about the magnet transportation, especially with what Director Mut was bringing up to us. I mean, I'm worried that if that goes away, then what will our other buildings look like? Will those schools then still be an option for those families? I don't I don't really know just because people might have the means sometimes their 9 to5 get in the way of what they are able to do for their kids as far as transportation or some things like that. um you know, do those programs have a before and after school program for families to attend to? And what's how much capacity do those before and after school programs have then to continue to take students in for those families to have a little bit more flexibility? Um because even though they might have the money to transport their kids, they might not have the time to. Uh and sometimes money, you know, isn't always the solution to all of our ills in in the world. I also feel like too sometimes when we have these conversations around magnet families, we are really kind of um we're we're we're kind of like demonizing them. And I and I've heard a lot of comments about that. And so I I really want to be careful about how we're kind of talking about the magnet families, too. Just kind of an offshoot and want to put that out there. I I feel like, you know, me as a parent, I probably wouldn't have made the choice, you know, for one of those schools for my child just because to the kind of child I have and the kind of parent that I am. And I think a lot of parents, just like a lot of people, you gather together with other like people. And just because they've made that decision to gather together with other light people and they have the same goal in mind for their children doesn't mean that it's something bad or doesn't mean that if we break them apart that same thing now they're going to reproduce it at another school. It's not going to happen like that. So, I think there's some so sociology things that we're not really paying attention to here that could really, you know, like how groups interact with each other that could really cause some damage to our district with some of these decisions that we're making and some of the ways that we're choosing to talk about some of our groups of families. And so, I just want to put that caution out there. >> Appreciate that. Um and and again um will what ideas if not this right if not this then what are the ideas to get another $2 million of reductions because that's again not making judgments it's it's it's impossible for people that are being impacted to not feel I'm confident as they're either sitting in this room or listening that for some way shape shape or form their school, their program. Magnet programming isn't important. That's not what any of this exercise is about. We simply have to make some reductions. I'm confident, you know, you're right, Director Long, we we heard from um some folks, and I spent two hours with the Lake View parents uh around the IV program last year. Um, I am confident anything that goes up on a list, we will be hearing and you will be hearing no, don't cut that, don't cut that, don't cut that. We recognize we're in statutory operating debt and and I think this community has been amazing of acknowledging, we recognize the difficult position we all are in. Just don't cut our program. Just don't. Right. which is which is human nature and and that's part of what's horrible about what we're doing right now. >> Um and right my hope in this and and it's not about hope it's about intentionality and strategy. We are having to make reductions now to get us to a better place long term for our students. And I'm confident in that. I'm confident in the team that is working around the clock in that and right now it doesn't feel very good. >> Go ahead Bob. We run an operation that's over 70% human investment. There are four categories to get the level of reduction. I won't go back to what CFL shared. The option for the board is not to approve an unbalanced budget. You have to approve that. >> The only way you approve that is by making reductions. Not $100,000, not $10,000. We're talking millions of dollars. >> We've gone to our larger learning leaders group and asked them for input. Give us ideas of what you think would work. gone to other people in the district and said, "Give us ideas." The board have given us some ideas. We looked back on what was brought up last time. What you're seeing on the board is the result of all of that. Four areas we can get major reductions are buildings, transportation, people, and wholesale programs. That's how you do it until you get to where Kristen showed on the slide. We're now into the million dollars or less cut. That's a whole different game. But we have to get to the spot where as a board you're able to be ready to make that tough decision because there are there are some other things we've talked about. The board talked about it last meeting and it came up this meeting. It would be extremely difficult to pull off. Don't have magnet schools. Reboundry all the kids impact all of the elementaryaries at once. >> Possibly close another >> possibly close another one because that's what you'd be in a position. You could do that. >> We're not recommending you do that. We haven't been recommending you do that, but that's another option. That'll get you one more elementary school. That'd be a million dollars reduction. We will definitely save two plus million dollars in transportation. We will reboundary the entire elementary school population of kids. That is the level that we are at. >> That's a followup question to your last statement. Do you foresee the board needing to make that decision sometime in the near future? If not for this year, we have to be making that decision. >> I do. >> I do. >> You have to do something different at some point. >> I don't know what that is necessarily, but you got to do something different. And it and as a small piece to director Basset's comment, you can't do much different with RSI unless you do something different with it because there's not another building that it fits into as it as it is now currently on its own. I know you have ideas and I'm not I'll get to those. >> But those to answer your question, unless you do something differently, configure it differently, the answer is yeah. I think the other piece of that right so so again January conversation the board hasn't fullscale approved recommendations from the vision team but as we think about right the question that we kept asking this community 17,000 people came forward and when we said what do you want for students it was a lot of the handson projectbased outdoor learning kinds of things and I think that in part is why that recommendation because it was the study of all of that data that the vision team come came forward and said, "How do we make a district?" Um, and their idea was arts and innovation. We'll see what that looks like. Um, and that's something again, we've got the team around us. We've got staff with expertise. Um, we've got parents with expertise. We can we can make that happen. Again, [clears throat] that's going to take us a little time. So, I think that's the risk of that's one of the reasons we chose not to bring forward right away the recommendation about magnet schools is so we really did have some time to plan. We're hearing that from some of our magnet families, but what's the detailed plan? What's the detailed plan? Well, we're not there right now because we're trying to figure out this detailed plan, but once y'all say go, we'll go. And we're doing some other work with that. And the board has to wrestle with that because what does that look like? I don't know what that looks like. And that's a whole that's a significant conversation on its own. >> Flexible, >> right? It doesn't but it doesn't mean that things go away necessarily. That means you could have the conversation of if if that's where you're going, what does that look like and what are the dominoes that that creates? >> And [clears throat] there's a lot of loss at this table right now. There's a lot of loss in the emails that we're reading. There's a lot of loss in our staff and families who are showing up. There's a lot of loss. And again, we can choose and and that's real. That's real feelings. We also can get to a better place. And and I know there are people who don't want to hear that and want the details of all that right now. But but again, and I've said this a million times, I love this district. We're not rocking We're not knocking it out of the park with student achievement. We're not knocking it out of the park withmies or pathways for our kids. We are doing some things really, really well. And no matter what happens, we're going to keep doing those things really, really well because we have people care deeply for kids and this district and we're going to keep doing things and we can have more engagement in all of our buildings and we can have better reading scores in all of our buildings. It's part of the work in front of us. No. >> So just for a followup, I guess I would like to know if there's any way to gather some kind of an objective data from magnet schools based on this transportation submission. Besides, I'm sure we will be getting emails that will be coming, right? I would like to know if there's a way for us to maybe even just do like a a pool of parents saying something like >> if if we close transportation next year >> would you still come to this club and that that may or may not be >> changing my mindset on voting yes or no but it will be a good beta for me to have I don't know how easy that will And sometimes parents say if you do this you're leaving but they don't really do it. It's like oh we just love it here so much. >> Go ahead. >> No I was just going to say that that parents will have leveraged that to to try to get us to not make changes. And I wonder and and because it's human nature, right? And I I wonder better data would just be to know who right now is dropping off and picking up and that would give us an idea because even like actually with I asked about the changes with Minneapolis transportation and we actually got more kids after we cut the transportation to those systems of codes. So um which I think is just happen stance coincidence but the point is that you don't know but you know it's hard to know because while parents think they might change then there's also there's so many other pieces involved in it right because it's hard to make changes that impact your family and your kids and everything else. So, um, and some parents will make the change, too. [clears throat] >> And it's hard for you, right? It's it's hard. I don't want any of you to be in a position where you're making decisions out of fear, >> right? I want to have to build I will feel >> like I did the best decision I could possibly make. >> Dr. Basset. Well, you know, I was actually thinking a little while ago about grandfathering in the no transportation, but I remembered what we what will happen. It will compound how much more we have to cut. So, I resisted, you know, actually making that count and thinking that so am I. So scratch my surprise [laughter] [clears throat] after after all the decisions were made and everything. I think one thing that's really important is thinking about how these combined schools and maybe I don't know because of changes that will be happening but so I don't know name changes but you know how they will build their c their combined culture right and I know because a lot of who the teachers are and who a lot of that is seniority and who gets put in right so it's going to be different staff and it's going to look different and so how do and how do the families get brought together this spring to build that culture culture and how that all looks. So, both with families and with staff, I'm sure you guys will be working on plans, but it would be nice for us to hear about um what those plans are and how that looks. >> Yes, definitely before the end of the school year. Everybody has to feel really good about where they're going to be next year. >> And the I don't know if it's good news or not good news, but most of us sitting around this table have experienced in some way, shape, or form. And not that any of us did it perfectly, but I hope we can learn from each other and do this one better than we've ever done before. >> I've been through a few in this district. >> So, what else does anybody need to know? Feel comfortable making a decision? What other information? So if we were to close. >> Yes. >> It's true. >> True. >> And how much would you know? So that's the question that we know. Do we have projects currently going at city hall? >> We have what for do we have projects currently going at some hill for repairs? I presumably yes I think we do but we we don't have anything large scale going up. >> Thanks. So do we want to review the recommendation from >> the recommendation stance that you have made? We we have not and honestly >> and again this things I say will not be popular. I understand that. Um uh the more we have vetted, the more we have dug in, the more we have uh you have walked buildings and looked at um all of this and gotten the data to answer your questions. uh our recommendation as as it was currently stand with the >> and north >> right north of the highway and west of the highways. >> Okay. >> Thank you for work and research. have to close as an elementary high school and anybody else need any other information or are you ready to make a decision? >> You will be ready to make a decision if you get the information that you already asked for. So, we'll be back with you. Um, we'll we'll talk about that listening time and make sure we look at that for next week and the ETH and then come back to you on the see if we get done for next week, but on the ETH about this, but I just I just want to be sure because we we've got time. So, what want to be sure that you're getting what you need? I was just going to say just recognize that it is a short week and so our information seeking probably won't be uh robust until the 8th. >> The first is already the first is >> point and and so we have two days of work left. So, excellent point and we are on holiday and the first time >> and the first is that public hearing >> and uh truth and taxation and a business meeting. So, you're right. Most of this information will come back to you on the 8th >> in the study sessions. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> All right. Any Yes. >> Okay. Just for checking my personal boxes here. Sorry for other board members who may not need this information. But going back to um the availability at the ending uh slide for new I want to confirm my thinking is correct. What we are saying is we have 34% of the kids that could be going to Neil 66% could go to Neil that are not going to nail right now. Correct. >> If it were a neighborhood school, >> if it was neighborhood school then Noble will be 63%. Son that will be 66%. >> [cough] [clears throat] >> I'm confused because when I look at the numbers you're given on the boundary capture rate like for some I get um 61% or not >> on this we may be a little off. >> Yeah, that's why I'm looking at I'm using today's numbers. >> Oh, okay. I see. Got it. >> Yes, you're doing that correct across the board. >> And then L view will be 52%. >> And some of those in the no in the in the Neil area may be already going to Susan >> or any other school >> or any other school. >> Okay. And then on page that page is where we have the facility breakdowns and all of that. If [clears throat] we are making decision based on the 10year facility maintenance aka LTFM, right? >> The school here that may need the most based on the target will be Sison followed by new followed by noble followed by L. Is that correct? That's correct. >> I think the challenging part of that's why I'm grateful that that we put a comprehensive slide in because I obviously none of you make a decision on one line item, right? because that's been part of the challenge of this this study has been to look at each line item and say, "Okay, according to acreage, man, it'd be great to have buildings that are 12 acres of space, more playground, more fields, more opportunity to add, right?" So like that's what gets so tricky is all of the factors in this weighing to say okay how do we make the best decision possible right now >> that's it. >> Thank you. >> So based on that then uh remember we also talked about closing meals and having me combined with sodas. As I look at those numbers, Son's numbers look better to me to your point, superintendent. Uh, and there's not that big a difference between the cost of repair because remember that's coming out of different funding than what we're talking about in savings. But if you remember an email that we got because I was asking that question, but the email that we got clarifying some things that are not on here that are related to safety. There are big differences between this. >> I I agree. But then there's a value about becomes a value question. Uh if we want to invest in certain buildings because of the other attributes they have, that's a that's that's a choice. So, uh, I'm saying, you know, so, and I think that the the history or the, um, the strength of what I've been hearing about the progress they're making at SASA with grades and all the other things is impressive. I mean, and then when I look at this, there's not that much difference. So I don't really see the value is greater on that side to move the closed deal and leave Susan open in my estimation because I think think some of those other things can be accommodated and not only that they come out of different buckets of money capital expenditures and long-term maintenance are different than the operating budget >> I would pay Well, I understand, but this is my feedback and and if I that's how I understand it. And isn't that true? >> That's true. >> Well, I mean, you know, so I'm just saying apples to apples is larger. It's at least 4,000 ft larger. Well, maybe 30, let's just say 3500. It's a little larger. Um, it's centrally located, you know. I mean, I I I don't see the valley going the other way. I think one of the points that you guys made was that Sonos is also really close to a number of other schools. It's really close to to RSI. It's really close to Zachary Lane. Um >> what >> really close to Pilgrim Lane, whereas Neil is kind of an area where it's not as close to other elementary schools. Wasn't that part of the reason? >> The other part is uh when you look at the gym space and the cafeteria space and the kitchen, there's a significant difference there. When you look at the parking lots, they both have the same type of parking lot, but Neil's parking lot is in much better condition. Uh when you look at Early Adventure Club, we have to do something with Early Adventure Club because Neil already has that. I have a separate entrance to it. Trying to think [clears throat] the other stuff that I shared last night. >> Cafeteria has a door that closes. >> Cafeteria door locks. [clears throat] >> I trying to in that set, right? So the other stuff that we brought up on the sison side, the sison is right next to the park and um >> so it depends upon again it's all about what's the value >> and what do you value and and the other stuff just it is what it is. >> Um so I really appreciate that you know I just do a better term here. I really appreciate that because it's true there are some tradeoffs and the tra and so it's just one person's valuation of the trade-offs versus anothers but apples to apples they're very similar they're very similar and so you could go one way or the other and if you don't and and I think academic achievement or academic growth and academic progress that I've been seeing and hearing from the things I've been looking at and hearing about way you know um and I don't hear that from you know, and I think that that has a great value. And uh so I, you know, I mean, so I'm just being transparent. I'm >> I I I'd be hesitant to to pit school against school like that. >> I I wouldn't I just I don't think that's a good thing to do. >> Um I think schools, >> depending upon what they have going for programs and partnerships, have abilities to get more recognition in other schools in certain areas. And other schools do the same thing. in other areas. Um, all of our elementary schools, I think the biggest takeaway from all of this is all of our elementary schools have really cool stuff about them. They have really cool teachers in them. They have really great kids in them. They all are different and they have different things. And we we cannot I just I feel very strongly about this. We cannot perpetuate this whole us versus them with our elementary schools. That is [clears throat] a dangerous dangerous road. I'm not suggesting that's what you're doing. I'm just putting it into this space that every one of our elementary schools has something to offer the kids that go there. >> And our principles are working hard with their staff in those schools. Right. I've got principles now that are watching this because you have the question about the survey thing. Right. So it I know that at SAS or at RSI there are 400 to 450 students >> out of the 71 720 that ride a bus to school. >> Right. I know that at C >> there are about 100 u [clears throat] about 275 to 300 of the 475. >> Well here that that was on a recall >> the survey that I asked for was So, but what you So, what's funny about that is the one person said, "I have collected data on this four times." [laughter] >> So, I mean, so, and we'll get you the third one, but my guess is it's probably going to be about the same. The other one, it's going to be a 1/3, two3. That's the reason that's part of the reason we have 17 buses that show up by these is because you're 19. They're going all over the place. But I really just want to like all of our elementary schools are better than elementary schools. They're just different and they're in different places and they have figured differently. They're different sizes. They're in better shape. Whatever school consolidates with the other school, our leadership is going to figure out how to make that school great. Doesn't matter which ones consolidate, it will happen happen. And I think that's part of sorry director Bessa but I think I think that those are really important comments and part of our role in how we help people get to the other side of this right is acknowledging and recognizing the great in all of our schools in all of our staff in all of our programming. And because you're going to ultimately have to make a really hard decision. It's going to be really hard for those staff and families to not feel we didn't measure up. we didn't do something. We didn't email enough. We didn't come enough. We didn't tell you enough how great we are. >> And so it's going to be important that we're able to communicate that um and then be ready to help support the building up. >> Director was before director. >> Yeah. I I just I wanted to just throw in some of the support for all our schools, right? And looking at the process that is happening, I'm guessing that any two schools that close will probably have staff that may have to transfer to anywhere in the district based on contract seniority. So none of these schools are going to remain the same and we recognize that or at least I recognize that right. So yes, we do want to be very careful how we push some of schools. Not saying that anybody is doing it, but um I I don't want to be in their position for any of the schools, right? And I'm sure they probably don't want to be in my seat right now either because these are some really tough decisions to make. But we have to get there somehow, right? Um if if there is is there a way the board can give a direction tonight? >> I'm asking our board members or do we need more time to decide? >> I want more time. I want to hear the information. >> Thank you. And um and and the reality is that you know I mean thank you. they can excuse me assistance if it you know I you know the special sauce thing I I I believe that totally about all of our schools so I do but actually we were asked to look at facilities so when I say Neil I'm not thinking about internally I'm responding to the the framework we were given and the framework we're given you know talk about facilities so sis versus Neil is about the facility in my mind. Uh except that I did, you know, talk about the academic side of it because I just had more information, you know, but I I really believe in all those skills really, but I still think that some of the attributes you've done now thankfully, thank you, that are swaying me more. That's it. Any other hands? Any other questions, comments, concerns? >> My only comment is to all the support staff throughout like we don't just have four people sitting in a room trying to come up with all the numbers and all the information and everything that's coming in front of you. And Dr. McDell proved that tonight, right? So to everyone and that even includes I've seen some not a lot of emails but some emails where there's community members. >> Oh yeah. >> Right. That are providing information where you're think history. Um >> so just a shout out to all of the supporting cast if you will in this process. We have gotten hundreds of emails of people loving where they are, giving us history, giving us suggestions. I've answered a lot. I have not been able to answer them all, but we read them and we appreciate the input from everybody and it is [clears throat] a lot. But it's good to hear all the stories so that when you make the hard decisions, we will have all the information in our heads and seeing nobody else with anything going once twice. Okay, thank you everybody. Thank you all very much. See you on Monday.