Good evening. Uh, this work session of the school board of ocelio area schools is being held in the forum room of the educational service center on Tuesday, December 9th, 2025. The work session is being audio recorded. The recording will be made available on the district website within two business days after the work session is ended. With regard to the audio recording, our communication staff has asked that we share a friendly reminder. The side conversations during the work session are picked up by the recorder and can affect sound quality. Also, conversations during transitions between agenda items are on the recording as well. The intent of the schoolboard work session is to allow for schoolboard discussion of topics. Work sessions do not include an opportunity for audience members to address the board. To acknowledge attendance this evening, I'll ask that all present at the table state their name starting with the person to the left. >> Kelsey Dawson, school board member. >> Keith T, school board member. >> Erica Foster, school board member. >> Ryan Severson, Hall, executive director of community engagement. >> Vala, executive director of community relations. Alia, student representative, student representative. >> Adam, student representative, district level principal. >> John Morstead, executive director, finance and operations. Steve Wood, assistant superintendent for elementary and middle schools. >> Ivon Schwzland, executive director of HR. Amy Moore, general counsel. >> Sarah Mitchell, school board member. >> Kim High, superintendent. >> And I, Thomas Brook, schoolboard member and present. The purpose of schoolboard work sessions is to build trust and teamwork to exchange information and when applicable to provide direction in order to facilitate efficient and effective decision-making at regular board meetings. Dr. Hy, will you please share your check in? >> Yes. Thank you. Uh, Vice Chair Brooks and our schoolboard members, we'll start this evening with the legislative platform. So, we'll have uh John Morstad will introduce U Valerie online. >> Yep. >> Thank you, Dr. Hy, Vice Chair Brooks, board members. Um, so Valerie Dosland, who is the district's lobbyist, is actually online with us virtually. And so, I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to Valerie, and she's going to kind of provide a little bit of an update of where things are at with the legislature before we move into um this next session. and then we'll talk our way through the platform after that. So, Valerie, all yours. >> Great. Thank you, John. And, uh, thank you, members of the board. I do appreciate accommodating a virtual uh, presentation today. Uh, quick update. Over the course of the legislative interim, there have been numerous special elections. We do have currently two open seats in the Minnesota House of Representatives, but we expect those to be held at special election in January. Uh Minnesota Management and Budget, our state forecasting agency, released their economic outlook next last week, which showed that we had a $2.47 47 billion surplus for the current bianium, not an almost $3 billion deficit for the next bianium. The forecast is a result of higher income tax collections, but the deficit is a result of higher health care costs and slower economic growth. MNB officials did caution last week that it's important to remember that there are long-term risks in the forecast uh due to policy and funding uncertainties at the federal level. So looking to the 2026 session which begins on February 17th. It's not a budget setting session and it's typically one that will be focused on policy and rebonding. I would imagine the governor is going to put forward a budget recommendations in January and I will would expect that that will include budget reductions for the following bianium. You know a number of issues are going to be top of uh excuse me top of agendas. You know, over the course of the stall, there was a lot of discussion about whether or not to have a special session, and ultimately the legislative leaders couldn't agree to the parameters of a special session. So, I would expect those issues to to filter into the regular session. Mainly those issues are uh gun control, school safety, but other issues that will be front and center include um fraud and trying to and what to do about addressing fraud as well as the uh impact of the federal budget that was practiced on areas such as healthcare, SNAP, and concerns about cost shifting to cows. I also wanted to add that there have been a number of retirements announced. Um most notably uh represent Lisa Dameth the current speaker of the house announced that she's retiring to run for governor. And then education area, Senator Steve Swidzinski, the Senate chair of the Ed Policy Committee, announced he is retiring along with Representative Ron Kisha, the Republican co-chair of the House Education Finance Committee. And then lastly, Representative Kristen Robbins from Maple Grove area announced that she is retiring because she is also running for governor of Minnesota. In the areas of K12, I think a few issues that will be front and center include um school safety. Uh just kind of continued discussion about that issue in light of the shootings that Catholic Church. Uh you will see consistent in a number of different platforms uh repealing the $250 million reduction for the special aid process aid that was passed last session as well as continuing uh hold harmless for compensatory revenue. And then I would imagine there will be some additional discussion this year on paid leave given the roll out of that requirement uh in January. And then there's a number of different interim working groups that have met over the summer. Uh the first one is the compensatory revenue task force. They do not have to have their final report until October of 2026, but they do have to have a preliminary report due to the legislature by February 25th of this year. There's also a working group on the use of seclusion and then a working group on the developmental delay special ed category. And I think the one of most interest will be the compensatory working group. [clears throat] >> [snorts] >> That's all that I wanted to share today and I'm available for questions. >> All right. Thank you, Valerie. Should I uh would you prefer we go through the list or are there questions you want to ask Valerie first? >> We can go through the list first. >> Okay. >> Um so the legislative priorities for this year are similar to last year's. Um they are scaled down a little bit knowing that it's As Valerie said, it's it's not a funding year. Um, if anything, I think the goal here is to try to maintain what we have and and obviously there's places where we're asking for them to make an increase like local optional revenue, but probably the most important [snorts] thing is maintaining um current general fund formula to include the inflationary index. Late in the session last year, that came up as a let's pull back. It's an easy lowhanging fruit thing that would solve a lot of budget problems [clears throat] right away. Um, but it also takes away the the thing the districts had fought for for as long as I have been in schools and finally got and this is the very first year that in the inflationary index actually applied is the current year we're in. So that's an important one to keep. Um, the next one and I'm not going to necessarily read I'll go through these all but but not uh going to go through all the detail on them. Fund the summer unemployment insurance. So the the previous session funded this last summer. So we've pretty much exhausted what we have. So going forward, we don't have a mechanism to pay for summer unemployment. Um and so that will I um that'll be an issue because that uh the the legislator is going to have to decide how do we pay for that? Is that just a straight hit to the general fund? Can we levy it like we do our other unemployment insurance which would mean an increase to the levy? Um so that's a question. Uh for us it's we're looking at about 1.6 $1.7 million is what our number is. Um the local optional revenue what we'd like to do is is so that's been normally it's we get $724 per pupil it's been at that number for and Valerie have to tell me how many years but a long time. So the 979 on here is is the inflationary adjustment to catch it up and then ask that it move at the same rate that the um general formula move. So, it's a [snorts] it's still an increase formula ask to the leg legislature, but a lot less than if we said we just want to add this to the general formula. Um, the priority two, which is focused on school safety and support for mental health, um, increase safe schools funding to $108 per pupil to support the needs for scholars and staff. and again expand allowable uses of long-term facility maintenance to include cyber security and technology infrastructure hardware and modifications of buildings to to be able to utilize um LTFM to pay for safety and security. Those were in the platform last year as well. Um priority three is focused on workforce shortage. So continue to expand programs and incentives to attract, develop, and retain teachers of color and remove barriers and provide incentives to address shortages in the areas listed. Um the last one is kind of the standard item that sits on our platform all the time, which is reduce mandates. Either fully fund or repeal unfunded mandates. Um refrain from adding new unfunded mandates and and try to was added in last year. try to review and repeal any obsolete requirements and in current law that can back out. Um, so that's the the platform. Again, it's it's it's a fairly simple version because we it's not a funding year, so the asks just aren't there and we know that they're going to be focused on looking past this year and looking at that big deficit. So, with that, I'll turn it back to you, Vice Chair Brooks. >> Thank you. Uh, school board members, any questions? >> [snorts] >> Just clarifying John on the per pupil um it currently is 724 >> currently 72 >> that as of now. Okay. Okay. >> So essentially that the number on there moves it from 724 to 979. That is adding inflation from when it started at 724 to today. >> And how many years had it been? Sorry. Could you repeat? >> Uh I trying to remember Valerie. Do you remember when that was originally said? Optional at 724. It was a combination. >> I don't remember off the top of my head. >> We used to have two pieces. We used to have a $424 >> local optional I think and then $300 board. um a lot of the school board could vote to say we're going to just put $300 on the levy and they in one of the legislative sessions they combined the two together and took that away and just said we're just going to call this local option and everybody gets it. So I want to say it's probably been seven, eight years. Top of my head. >> I was around when I saw at least. >> So for uh priority number two, enhance school safety and support mental health. Um, I submitted an item on uh the gun control legislation and um expanding mental health supports. Did you receive that? >> We did not. >> Okay. >> No, unfortunately. I didn't I I never got feedback from a board member on what should be on the platform. We had feedback from cabinet but not a board member. >> So, I apologize if I didn't get that from you. Can you tell me what it was? >> Can you state it again? >> Yeah. So the it was um enact stronger gun safety laws to reduce firearm access among students. Um require universal background checks, implement red flag laws, ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. Um the second one was increase funding for school safety and mental health resources. Um expand access to school psychologists and then the whole list. Um and that one also included school resource officers. Right. >> Yep. >> I'll give >> Yeah, I think you can do that. You can just Well, what typically what we do here is if if and I guess we'll leave this to the board. We'll probably have to Dr. K and I can figure out how to send it out to you to see if you want it included, don't want to include it, want to weigh in. Um because ultimately this is a platform we're going to ask you guys to approve to represent the school. So, we need the voices of all the school board members. Yeah, I I would like to see something like just to see what that would look like um with some of those topics around mental health and more specifically around gun safety. Um I had a question too around you know we say the it says that this platform is a result of extensive collaboration and input from family, staff and community members. So, I was just kind of curious like, you know, when I was in the war before, we talked about like a legislative committee um because to engage our communities and to to make sure cuz a lot of times our priorities are pretty the same, you know. Um I mean, they change a little bit, but I just I've always thought it was really important to even have more community voice um that's really specific to the legislature. um because you know we have a huge district um a lot of you know city priorities um and I just think it's another way for our community to um get really involved and also I've seen in other districts a lot of times that's also a pipeline for um even recruiting other schoolboard members to be part of that because I think the more so I was kind of curious around um I know it's not necessarily about the priorities but I was curious around I I thought that there had been a draft committee Um but I just was we were curious of where that left off. >> We had one for one year. >> Mhm. >> Um participation was pretty limited and then I think with all the other things spinning up knowing that we were prepping everything for build a better future and all that capacity just wasn't there to do it. I personally run three different committees between ECMAC, CMAC and fiscal. And so adding a fourth is is on top of all the build better future things for me. I'm I'm well beyond my capacity to do that. So, I'm not I'm certainly open to whatever direction Dr. How wants to give us, but uh or at least provide for for us administratively. Um but but today that's a bit of an ask for us to pull off, at least in my opinion. >> It's just that a lot of other districts have them. And so I think I I I understand that and I want to be respectful of your time, but I also think that it's an area we're such a large district with so many different diverse voices and I I don't know like how we funnel those voices in this particular platform. But I think that for me that's really important. So I'd like to even to explore it um to see what that would take or what that would look like, how that would even be structured. >> Um the prior district had it. >> Yeah. >> But it was run by board members and parents. run by administration. >> Sure. That's what Yeah. Maybe explore of like what are the options of of setting something like that up or what would that look like? >> We're even doing it as part of our one of our community conversations. >> Yeah. I mean, I think just explore like how do we kind of >> whatever that would be. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've even seen boards like, you know, they'll have like I've talked to other um school board members who, you know, they'll do like a fall convening with that committee and some of this the reps, you know, with schoolboard members and school staff um couple times a year just to kind of have a a pulse on I mean, there's a lot of issues we could weigh in on immigration, gun control. I mean a lot touches our schools and what's important to our communities I think is really important and it's a way to engage >> continuously engage people. >> Yeah. In January we'll be talking about committees anywhere and Tanya and Thomas will be um >> reaching out as well so can be brought up then as well. So >> yeah. >> I do like Erica's idea though >> of integrating it into an existing structure. Um, I really appreciate the emphasis on priority one and just continuing to say it to our lawmakers that this is a priority for our schools and that um, we need them to focus on this. So, I think this is a well-ritten platform and we get a hardy yes from me. So, I appreciate it. >> All right. Thank you. So, we'll I'll get your information, Thomas, and then we'll get it out to uh the rest of the board to get that input added on into that. So, thank >> you. That'll be a fairly quick turn because we want want to bring this to you. Although, we do don't have to bring this to you next next [snorts] week because the session doesn't start till February. We could do this at at a January or the January meeting if you prefer. We do have some time. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Thank you, Valerie. >> Thanks, Valerie. Appreciate it. All right. So, our next one, uh, we're going to go into the 500 series policies and we have general counsel Amy Moore here and Amy Toliffson, uh, district principal and we have our scholars. So, Amy T, you want to introduce our scholars this evening? >> Yes, we are very excited to be here for first opportunity to do a policy review um, with all of our scholars. And so we have um Hikma Adam and Christian Va and um Aaliyah Jiwa who's here who's here and um Naomi is unable to be here this evening. She's at work conflict um but she was also a part of our feedback. So her voice still will be present and they are I'm going to just quickly take a brief tech break and get our slides up and then we go back. And I'll say just from a process standpoint. So we've uh met with the students um who provided a lot of great input. Um here you as a whole board will discuss these policies and then provide direction or what you want to see, what sort of outreach you want, whatever it is. And then we will take these policies plus an additional four will be at the March policy committee and then at that time we'll decide which of them one will come to the board for first meeting in April. All right. Well, thank you for having us board chair or vice chair Brooks and board members. Um, we are happy, as I said, to be here sharing the feedback and this was certainly, I think, a first opportunity that our students became more familiar and aware of what the policies are and how all of you as board members um help direct and inform and uphold the policies as well as um giving them an opportunity to just see what what are these policies all about. So it was I think a great learning opportunity and we had an opportunity to have a fresh set of eyes and a different perspective. So in general there were um maybe just questions that came up not necessarily suggestions. Sometimes there was suggestions or definitely um perspectives just from their lived experiences in school. So the feedback will be varied but we had really valuable conversations and um spent about 3 hours looking at policy one October one December day. So the five policies listed on the slides are the five that we will be sharing feedback with you today. So some had more feedback than others. Um but we're just going to get started and I think is going to kick us off with policy and procedure 504. So, it may be helpful [snorts] for you to find in your packet where the policies are because there might be like a line or two that they might refer and I tried to pull those out to make it just easy. Um, but certainly ask any questions that you have. >> Okay. So as you know policy and procedures follow for assistant dress and parents which helps also are schools avoid destruction to school property like with excessive clothing like that can scratch or damage um items in school. It can also improve health and safety with that different safety requirements and maintain the school expectations making sure that everything is appropriate and doesn't interfere with learning. Um when we looked at this policy and procedures we had a suggestions for edits on health and safety and also questions concerning face masks. Um, on procedure B3, we thought that the word temporary removed would be better than saying temporary suspended because the language kind of comes off harsh and we just think that temporary be that. We also thought that um there could be different accommodations that would help with like temporary suspended could be changed because in B3 as I said may be temporarily suspended from participation in said course and some different students with different beliefs or abilities can kind of like interfere with that. So having another way to include kids would be better. And for face coverings, we had some concerns following the face coverings and questions how we fit into these procedures. Would face masks fall into that policy and would ski mask also be considered as a face mask? This comes up because we are postco and it's not uncommon for kids to be, you know, weary about their sicknesses and for people to wear mask for their safety. So I don't know if the board is aware at schools sometimes we have scholars with ski mask on. >> Can you one of you guys describe what that is? >> Do you know what that is? Ski mask is to describe it. It covers your entire face but your eyes. >> Okay. >> Thank you. Yeah. >> Okay. I wasn't sure of everybody. >> And that's not allowed. Correct. >> Yeah. Correct. Okay. Would you like to keep going through? I mean, we can ask all of our questions at the end or you certainly can just jump in if you have any questions. >> Probably easier as we go with. >> Yeah. Can just a pause in between would be nice. >> Where do you see the mask portion >> or the language? >> Yeah. It wasn't in there with it. >> So, adding language to clarify. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, I will say I it was a great question to bring up like the medical face mask. It's something that I want to talk with our lead nurse about just from kind of her perspective. I don't know that that qualifies as as a student dress or appearance thing if it's being utilized and maybe it's it if it's being I guess I could see the hot new trend is everyone wears medical masks or something and then it's for appearance versus medical purposes. Um so it's on my followup to do in regards to would it be helpful to call it out? >> Thank you. You're doing great things at the end. Just make notes and we'll head back where everyone. So the next one was um >> Can I ask a question? >> Sorry. >> Um for a C3 the clothing containing language, slogans, emblems or I'm just curious. emblems or pictures that promote or depict violence, hate, discrimination, has is that like kind of up to I mean is there something specific there or is there is like is it up to the discretion of like the building administration or like >> I'm just curious. So I think um I want to I want to go back and verify but I believe we have more specific language in the student handbook that speaks and so policy might be a little bit more broad and then we hone in on a little bit more. >> I mean obviously as a parent [clears throat] I know I'm just kidding. I [laughter] >> read every student handbook and [laughter] >> you're quizzing them. Yeah, you guys, >> right, there are examples, but to your point, there might be um some things that come up where there are questions of whether it's a first amendment right >> or you know um and so that's where people will reach out to Amy or myself and we kind of start that discussion. Gotcha. >> Okay. Thanks, So now we're going to talk about um procedures 541 just um so we have like a few things that we wanted to talk about with this one um which are application support and then education early. So we'll start with the application policy first. We were wondering if over- the-counter meds um fall under like chemical use and abuse. Like if people bring over the counter meds to school as a program or time or something. Um and then it says in the policy um I believe under enforcement that um police referrals could occur and we were just wondering how and when that would occur. Um, and then we also thought it would be helpful to review the referral process to the student assistance team. Um, which is number four in the procedures. [snorts] >> Oh, sorry. Could you stop one second so I can write down the notes? So, you said police referrals, the how and like what does that look like? Yeah. Is that the question? Okay. >> Thank you. Sorry to interrupt. >> No, I'm sorry. I'll just >> No, you're good. No, you're good. Um and then number four um for the procedures the preassessment team or the student assistant team services. Um so we just think that it would be helpful for someone to review that because it was a bit confusing. Um especially um letter F which is on the next slide um is I mean I can re read it if that would be helpful. Okay. It says, "If this team decides not to provide a student and in the case of a minor, the students parents with information about school or community services in connection with chemical abuse, records created or maintained by the team about the student must be destroyed not later than 6 months after the determination is made. If the team decides to provide a student and in the case of a minor, the student's parents with information about school or community services in connection with chemical abuse, records created or maintained by the team about the student must be destroyed not later than 6 months after the student is no longer enrolled in the district. So, can anyone tell me what I just said? Cuz I can't. It's really confusing language. So we think that to make it easier to understand and for students and just like people in general to read the language could be um made less confusing like not later than 6 months could just put five six months or like I don't know something >> end of the end of the school year. >> Yeah. Um um so yeah and then that was for that and then moving on to support. So there was a lot in this um these this policy and procedure about like punishing students or the consequences for if they were caught with like um like abusing or using chemicals or like drugs or whatever. And we think it would be it's important to provide support first instead of punishing addiction or at least like provide it before they're punished. Um because like addiction is not something that can be fixed or changed with like consequences. It's something that can be fixed or changed with the proper help and support. Um so we were just thinking that that would be um a first step to help the students before they have to like face the consequences. Um and then to like to help like enforce that and like make sure students are educated about it. Um we were talking about prevention, education and early intervention. So like emphasizing like the education of these of like the chemical use and abuse and like what different things can do to you and how it's bad for you. And we said we could even educate younger grades like sixth through 8th. Um I know DARE is a really good program that goes to schools. So like keep that like we can keep doing that. Um and it can also like this type of education can start in the younger grades and also continue um in high school because that's when a lot of kids get into things like that. [clears throat] So just focusing more on the education and support um instead of the punishment and consequences. Do you know because DARE is through fifth grade, right? Do you know is anyone in middle school? Is there a program like DARE where or it ends at fifth grade? They graduate. [snorts] >> I don't know. >> They probably cover parts about it, but they don't know, >> but it's not like a program or ongoing >> handse to your body like >> So, what would you recommend instead? >> Um, more just like more information, more education about it. and like regarding like addiction or like I know it's kind of a taboo topic sometimes but like people have parents who deal with that as well. So just more information about that I feel would be helpful so that like students will hopefully not decide to do it but if they do they at least know that like consequences won't happen. So doing talking about consequences but also adding in like here's resources if you were somebody you know struggle with addiction. >> That would be really >> okay. >> Thank you. >> You did a good job >> for a good job. >> Okay. So a couple questions. Um for F. Can someone summarize what that means? I know you read it, but >> I have no idea what it means. I have no idea. That's what I was. So here's what I will say right I >> a common theme was like readability understand like so that is something that you know I will try to be focusing on as we move these forward um really what for what that's trying to get at is um you have these student assistance teams that are um seeing some students struggle and they might uh bring a student up thinking well we're not sure we have this kind of we're seeing these things. Um, do we think it might be chemical addiction related? Um, so if they decide that it's not, we want to make sure that those don't become like permanent student records, right? Or if they see that they do want to provide some referrals. Um, there will come a time when that the student has gone through it or it ends. And it's kind of to your point about this being an addiction trying to really support and educate doesn't need to become a part of a permanent file for the student. >> So really what they're that's what it's trying to get at is like then let's just delete these records when they're no longer needed. >> Right. I think there's a better way to say it [clears throat] and plain language. Yeah. >> Is there something about the six months or or like you were not necessarily Okay. Yeah. So I think it's, you know, >> maybe the end of the school year or something like that. Okay. >> Yeah. I think it's like, well, I don't know, maybe 6 months is long enough. If it happens again, it'll happen in that time. Something like that might have been the thought versus >> um let's find a way to make it more understandable or more accessible. >> Um I will just let you know we are talking about student medication policy. >> Yes. >> So it does not apply to Tylenol, by the way. >> [laughter] >> That was their question. >> But it's a really good question. Yes, we had that big discussion about it. >> I mean to that point though, I don't Is there a reason why we couldn't clarify in the policy that overcounter med medication or whatever the category is doesn't apply. Um I appreciated the comments about emphasizing education um especially after fifth grade. Um I know it significantly drops off past that point. Um, one of the questions that I had for staff is, uh, for the provision of support services for students, how are drug and alcohol abuse counselors related to, um, sort of that section or um any sort of a plan for for our students? [snorts] So um the high schools and the partner with our middle [clears throat] schools have a person assigned to the school and if there is a student that is using then they would be referred to that individual for you know various different views of followup and depending on how willing the student is to engage also you know they have access to different resources and depending on the intensity of usage. So, um, really anytime that a staff identifies in a student who is using on school campus or not that they become aware that they've been using and maybe their attendance has been struggling and they boil it down to learning about use or addiction, they will refer to that individual. >> So, is that something that we should add to the procedures as a step? >> That's part of Yes. Um part of what we were talking about or what they identified in that uh four the all votes A through F kind of includes revisiting I mean I would be curious to talk with our site teams on really what is your practice currently and that how could that reflect what's outlined in this feature. I think there's some of these things that accurately apply but it's probably evolved. So how do we accurately reflect that? >> Right. and call out that particular position. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Anyway, >> and can I just ask a question on the proactive kind of education since we have your three students here? What is your um like can you explain to us what you think of how open, receptive like your classmates or you know that those grades six to 8th grade are students pretty willing to because I think the DARE programs students seem pretty engaged and it's like they're on board with that. But do you also feel like students would be fairly open to that education kind of being like others focused even if it's not something they struggle with? Like what I just would love to hear from the three of you if you have any thoughts on that cuz I love that you're suggesting that and just you know hearing kind of the reality of >> Yeah. I mean, I would hope they would be like I would have I would be I would have been um but then like even if they're not like super open or receptive even just hearing that like like hearing that or having to do like maybe like a small activity or worksheet reg like like about it even that just puts that thought in their brain. So at least they're like they like they think about it and then maybe later like if something comes up like they'll remember that be like oh I should not do this you know so like even if they're not super receptive at the time it can still help to um it can still help they have the knowledge and information. >> Yeah that's good. >> Um to add on to that I know at my school high school um students opened up like a stop vaping or vaping awareness and there's like posters all over our hallway. So I feel like once we started that we're like kind of kind of requesting more information. I feel like they would be interested. >> The trail on what they said. There's a lot of things that go into this, but one of the most important things is early prevention and planting seeds in people's minds for them to learn that these things are harmful. Because if a kid didn't learn that drugs were bad or didn't get enough education, what's happen what's going to happen is they'll probably go into that and then they have another set of problems on top of that. So planting seeds in people's minds and just information information will help them no matter if they're interested. That's one of the big battles that we need to focus on. >> Yeah. Wow. I love that. Thank you. >> All right. policy 5 student surveys. >> Talking about student surveys on the first bullet point, we're talking about how there needs to be more accessible options to opt out of the student survey. Currently, I think we reviewed that it's just an email, but that it can get very very quickly and easily with spam or other things. and that we need to include more modern ways to have the chance to opt out like a text message or a phone call or whatever that looks like. Now, and for the second bullet point, including a mission will provide parents and guardians with more info with what they're really doing and what they're signing up for and what they're engaging the student in. And this also brings clarity to what the survey is, why it helps this district and it could even help more families to opt in now that they know what it is about. >> I thought it's interesting during our conversation, you know, they're doing the work right now on revising the student survey and as we were talking about this policy, they're like, well, how do you even use this information? What is this, you know, core? And so that even though we've spent time talking about the survey, talking about revising it, you know, even with this group who's very closely connected, they still are wondering how this information is used. And then as Amy and I shared how schools use it and how you all use it to inform the experience, they're like, well, that makes a lot of sense. How how can we make everybody else be aware of that, too? So I think we had good conversations around just the purpose >> and it would probably maybe if people knew the purpose more like participate >> we'd have like a broader participation maybe >> it builds trust emphasizes transparency. >> So I think I'm I'm a little confused with the opt out part of it. Is this not an optional survey already? the student survey >> or are we saying that it's not presented as optional? >> I would think that it's an optional survey. >> I think it's optional, but I don't know how many people know it's optional. >> Does it say it's optional in the >> optional impose academic or other penalty if you opt out? >> Let me see. [laughter] >> Sounds law. [clears throat] Yeah. >> Can you repeat that again? Keith >> says, uh, the school district will not impose an academic or other penalty upon a student who ops out of participating survey, which doesn't really >> hardwarming feel like it's welcoming. [laughter] >> I'm just confused. The opt out seems almost >> I'm confused how that relates when it's already an optional survey. Um, >> change their wording. >> Yeah. Um >> well just like making people aware that it's optional I think cuz like again not many students really know much about this survey. We don't know what it's used for and what the purpose is. Like all we know is that we're told in foundations or advisor to take a survey every year. So, I think just more transparency about like you can opt out um and like what it's used for and stuff like that would be helpful because there's not like we don't know much information about >> and knowing that there's a purpose behind it. Students will more than likely give better information or more detailed information knowing that it can be used for something good. >> So, I think the opt out thing is like yes, it's already optional but people aren't aware that it's optional. I think >> can we so for policy committee can are you able to gather the the language that we're using for the survey for to communicate that it's optional and anonymous and >> yeah and it says here on two if you're pulling up info like what does it look like for us um that parents will be notified about the survey at the beginning of each school year is that done in our forms we fill out is that done how is that communicated >> I will get all that information >> lots of fun homework Amy At one point I thought it was a letter that was sent out, but I'm not sure if that's changed. >> Okay. >> I'm just looking at some old files. Like I It looks to me like they have an email out. Um and they're going to parent so >> do you get notified like the week before you take the test? Do you guys ever get an email like this is coming up? No. >> Okay. >> We have our old >> which if you're old enough, right, >> that might be helpful. Yeah. That's a good point. >> That's why I mentioned like a more modern way to communicate if possible because email is kind of like mail. >> They just disappear. >> Okay. Do students check their [laughter] >> silence. >> You don't have to silence. >> I don't know. I'm older, you know. I don't know what kids do. So texting is a more texting. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Or am I even older? [laughter] >> Safe space. >> Okay. >> So this is like different from the Minnesota student survey. >> Right. >> Can we get more information about the survey in general and policy committee? I just feel like there's a lot of y >> unanswered questions. It shouldn't be this hard. >> You probably have Dr. Bass part of that next policy meeting. >> Well, and it was hasn't been reviewed since May 18th. So maybe that's part of it. >> It could be really outdated. >> Changes. >> So on page 6 of 11, procedure 506 on I think B8 early intervention. Um I remember thinking the wrong one. I'm sorry. Okay. Page one or two on policy 520. >> Yeah. >> It talks about how and why the student could um opt out, but we reviewed that. It's just way too confusing. I could read through it, but I don't want to put any of you guys to sleep. If you want to read it, it's on page one >> very statutory based language and again a readability issue. Well, and sometimes are we is it required or good for us to have some of that really legal ease? >> Sometimes, but I the challenge is is I think we can make it okay more understandable. >> Hopefully. >> Yeah. >> Also, if you needed to have like the legal like words in it, maybe it could be like like if some of them it says like referred to like this from somewhere else, like you could put more of those in there just so that it's like easy to read and understand. >> [snorts] >> It's just a challenge to understand. >> But that and that's the US Department of Education survey though. It's a different one, right? >> It is. >> That's not even the Minnesota survey, right? >> Or is this the Minnesota one? >> How many surveys are we giving our kids? >> I'm just No, I don't. I'm just curious. >> To us is our district one and a Minnesota one. Yeah, this is our district one and then that maybe and then we have the Minnesota. >> It's our district one, but then they throw in this language, right? And so that's also maybe a question for like the policy committee to struggle with more of like do you want to just make this about the district survey because like this this language about you know the US department that's already law, right? >> Don't know that it needs to be thrown in there. Yeah, [clears throat] we have some work to >> Yeah, >> maybe you want to meet in February. No, >> okay. So, moving on to um policy procedures 514, bullying and hazing prohibition. Um, so with this one, so um, unfortunately bullying is like still a big thing that happens in all schools. Um, and a lot of times like people may not know like how or when to report it or what like classifies bullying. And like this, it does like state what it is in here, but we were just thinking it might be helpful to develop a studentfriendly summary. um because like I don't most students would not want to read like all of the pages of this policy or like um and they might not be able to like pick out the cards that they need to like you know understand if something should be reported or not. So just like a summary for students will be helpful. Um and then a distinction between like um bystanders and instigators. I'm not sure where it says says it somewhere in here, but just like to help um distinguish between those words and again to help like students understand it better. Um and then we also think that there should be a followup with the people who are like who were bullied and even who like did the bullying with like emotional and academic support um based on their needs and what they need. Um because like stopping the bullying and like punishing who does it or giving them consequences like it was good and it need like it needs to happen and the followup is just as important um because we don't want to like like lose any kids or like make them feel bad or worse or feel like they are not supported. So I think just something else about the followup with support would be better. Adding to Alio's point, I think followup is one of the most important things because a lot of kids are bullied are susceptible to not want to reach out because they might be afraid. So if they do make that step, which they should, then they should be given more support by feedback because it'll build trust with them and >> is it support for uh uh the victim or support both ways or >> can be both ways? Yeah, I think both ways. >> I think the victim support is really huge that you guys brought that up and I appreciate that. And safe. >> Do you have any idea where that language is about? >> Yeah, the it's we were referencing to age there. The policy applies not only to persons who engage in the act of bullying, but also who their indirect behavior condone or support another's act of bullying or hazing. And so the the concern was um well, if I'm walking by, right? Um so it was it was bystanders it was people who happen stance versus like um if if uh a group of students are there there's a bunch of people felt that type that like distinguishing um kind of the different roles that could be played. Have you all ever had any restorative work at your schools or you know what restorative justice restorative work is when an incident has happened. It could be bullying and hazing or whatever, but it's a way for the victim. They have to both agree to it to get closure. Someone comes in and do restorative. No, you have not had that. So, that's something we can work on. Yeah. I know I see middle school does quite a bit of it. So, Christian, like if you and I got in an argument or something and I felt like you were attacking me and we agreed to have Amy maybe meet with us and we would kind of walk through it and see if there was a way for us to restore our friendship or to build it back. So, that's what Dr. How means like restoring something that's maybe been damaged. >> Of course, that would assume something existed in the first place in that example because for some it's not. I was curious too, do you when you're talking about bullying or hazing at school, I like this distinction between bystander and instigator, but do you ever have conversations to Amy's point like when a bystander you move from a bystander to an instigator role, >> right? Cuz like you were you might have just walked by, but now all of a sudden you join in on what's going on. Now you're an instigator. Well, that's what I think. I don't know if that's the definition, but do you is that what you were trying to get between on definitions or >> Yeah, I think so. And just like like of course both are bad and like the difference between them and like the different consequences based on if you're a bystander instigator. >> Sure. >> Um >> and like a lot of people say bystanders is just as bad. And it's also really hard to speak up when there's like a bully. And I'm not excusing [clears throat] it by any means. I just don't think that the punishment or consequences should be the same for someone who's act like actively doing the bullying as someone else who like happens to walk by or sees it. >> And that might be another good one from the AM is to get like real life application what that looks like even just a couple examples from our schools of varying levels of consequences. Um and that might answer a question, right? Because that is a good question and yeah, good delineation. Thank you. And >> I think that the, you know, when we were looking at it, it was either you're um the one being harmed or you might be the one doing the bullying, but it didn't necessarily talk about the roles. And so, how do we think about, you know, the learning and the impact of those that might be somewhere in between? >> Well, it sounds like we are missing like bystander participant, people that aren't actively involved, but passively involved. Well, sometimes it may be a fight, right? Or it could be something else, but there's a bunch of people there and then you have administration trying to move in. Administration's asking people to move and they're not moving. >> Is that an innocent bystander or now they're in the way? >> Well, that's what you're wondering. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. And >> so good question. >> You all didn't know what hazing was. Did you know what hazing was? >> Hazing was unfamiliar. >> Okay. >> Did you know about before this? Did you know what hazing was? >> I knew what it was. It's like what they do with saris. >> That's what I was kind of I was kind of curious though. >> So, it's You think it's a term we should keep in here that people will understand it. I mean, our age, we understand. >> Is hazing just like >> I mean, it does say the definition here, so that's helpful. >> Okay. >> It does. Okay. And it's technically getting to statutes. You're supposed to have a policy that does address hazing. >> Oh, okay. >> We still have sports teams and we might not have fraternities and sororities. >> I mean, there has been stuff in the news as well. I mean, yeah. >> If we read like a studentfriendly like summary, it could say like just what hazing is instead of using the word cuz that's not like the legal stuff. It's just for students to like understand. >> What would you all call it? >> Hazing. >> Hazing. now that you know >> like hazing with what it means and then some examples you know I mean I didn't know hazing was so >> what would you call it in your like current language >> like how your the words that you have in your toolbox >> um >> [laughter] >> Okay. I like that. >> Um, you don't go first. >> I don't care. >> Okay. Um, I was just curious about the cyber bullying piece and um I you just mentioned Amy has like has to be in here, but what about like social media kind of the rules of engagement? Like cuz I feel like it seems that a lot of the things that happen in our buildings are a result of maybe something on a social or that in itself can be bullying if somebody's posting something about somebody and and so um I just didn't know if do we have that somewhere else or like in a technology type policy or like I do think that's an important component um just because it's so prevalent. >> Yeah. And it w it did come out in our discussion that most more and more most of the bullying is online. So in the procedure it does talk about cyber bullying, right? >> Um >> and you know um maybe there does need to be more of a flushing out in this given that its prevalence is kind of more front and center than >> but it just seems like cyber bullying is more like specific to like like actual like messages or I I don't know like I I do think there's some distinction between like [snorts] >> here. >> Yeah. >> Or or >> I don't know. I mean I think it's something to look at like I think the policy committee could look at that like I don't I'm just curious. I mean that's a new social media is new. I mean to I don't know like you had just mentioned that you know because of state statute we have to have certain things in here and sometimes it lags on that state statute kind of lags on actually what's happening in our >> real life and I think social media uh unless maybe it's even called social media. I don't know. Like I just seems like social media is such a prevalent um I mean I know in my own kids' life it's huge, you know, I mean in terms of like what people are seeing and how they're feeling and if they're ready to go to school because they saw something on social and it may not be like this person's name spec. I don't know, you know, I think there's something to that. We will have things that start on social media like we'll see it like over winter break something like there's all this social media going back and forth and it comes into the school and then there's >> right and so like that will come out in investigation and will have an impact on maybe how it ends up getting addressed uh to your point on that. So Amy will we so like in a procedures 1B we have definition of cyber bullying. Do we want >> this what you're saying Miss Kelsey put something in the policy? >> Yeah. I guess I'm more curious of like is I I don't I don't have an answer. I just was wondering if there's like a there's something to that if there is like a difference you know and um I don't know. >> No. Yeah. I think that's a good point because a lot of stuff is on social media like um on Snapchat even like you can like put in your school and then each school has like a school story and anyone can post on that if they have a school added. So like there have been times where like I clicked on it and it's been something either like really inappropriate or like like things like that are like probably considered bullying. like um like a month ago someone posted another student's address on the school story which like it was reported and stuff but like that's something that's absolutely not okay. So just like I think adding into that like posting on stories um even if it's not like a direct message like you were saying is still considered bullying. >> Yeah. It's like that digital citizenship you know like how do you >> So your question is is our language in the policy enough that to cover cyber bullying? >> Yeah. Uh, social like anything social media. Yeah. >> Or like I know that there's pages that like do things like at the middle school I know there's like Instagram accounts that like >> I can't remember what they call it but they like sync people up and they're like [cough and clears throat] shipping. >> Yeah. And I'm like I don't know. Like I would be like mortified if like I was like on that, you know? So I don't know. Like I don't maybe that's not like a big deal but I'm like [laughter] like you know like >> cuz sometimes No, I'm serious. I've seen kids like sometimes they put kids together that like people make fun of it or like it's like people like laugh like haha you know I think that's like >> hijacking an individual's likeness I mean that's something I think >> has been exploding >> and it gets to education right how to be a good digital citizen >> yeah if you know for lack of digital >> there's like lots of different kind of areas and what can we maybe call out here under bullying versus like in our discipline policy, we talk about misuse of technology or misuse of social media. Yeah. >> Well, and like to Eric, sorry, real quick to Eric's point about like bystanders, I also think like when there are fights, like I know even my own kids will come home be like, oh my gosh, I got this video and I'm like, don't you share that with anybody. [laughter] Don't you dare, you know, but I mean, not everybody knows that like, you know, people just think they just send things and >> Yeah. Yeah. And I even more just think like for cyber bullying especially, there's instances where kids will see it and it's hard because you guys are in a tough spot with social media. Like it's not an easy time you live in. Um but there's points where it's like okay that is the gray area where you probably should have done something or you know reported it or something like that. It's like how do we suscept out what that gray area is, you know? And it is gray because there's no clear line, I don't think. So, sorry guys. >> Well, it's kind of hard though for us to draw that line when I think we didn't get any education. I think we're probably the worst at the [laughter] >> you know some of the groups. >> Yeah. Uh the so the question I had was on two F and G um which speaks to like the employees role um in so the employees role um and so I think I am wondering if the language is strong enough in what our policies are around staff needing to document when bullying is happening. Um given that we have like the stop it platform and and all of that where we're trying to like collect this data. >> Um this it doesn't seem very clear what that what that role or mandate would be for staff. >> Yeah. Like it says like a reasonable person. What would a like how do you define a reasonable person? You know um >> especially these days, right? >> [laughter] >> legal term of art versus >> like reasonable efforts to help a student like what are reasonable efforts >> in my head it's like to help a student above and beyond as much as you can do but maybe reasonable efforts like >> I don't know could be just like doing a little bit and then it doesn't work it's like okay whatever you know >> yeah I definitely agree that reasonable efforts isn't strong enough Thomas I think it needs to be >> like add everything they can or like >> well and maybe that goes into procedures where we delineate what that looks like, what a reasonable effort is in terms of bullying. Um because I agree. >> So I think our practice has shifted significantly this year um to reflect that and we have had very very clear guidance and expectations on how we should be documenting bullying um harassment and >> discrimination those three. And so I've been working with sites tremendously around this is how we document when there's been a studentto student incident whether it's reported and it's substantiated or whether it's reported and not substantiated so that we can hold on to all the information that we have and how we supported both the person that's reporting being harmed and the person who has done the harm. So we have very clear documentation. So it's still a work in progress but we have a system in place. There's been a lot of guidance for our psychers. >> So, we just need to capture the work you've done >> so that this can maybe just catch up to the current practice. >> Good timing to have it reflect. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I just I want to make sure that it's mandated that they have to document. >> Yes. Yes. It is >> not only at their level but we have [laughter] >> we we have we're going out as a team as well with myself and a team and we're meeting with every administration team and going step by step of expectations. So we'll be doing that across all sites and all departments as well. So just let you >> I also think what happens is Oh sorry go ahead. >> No I was saying I so anything that a student reports has to be documented. Um, >> yeah. >> Or >> if you meet these definitions, >> okay, >> so like bullying, we want to know like I want to know that it happened, but more importantly, I want to know that it was addressed. >> Yeah. >> Um, and so if they're not documenting and they're just handling it >> themselves, like that doesn't help us identify trends and >> and it doesn't help >> to understand the Yeah. So, >> and then also like addressing it properly because like if like a teacher administrator addresses it and like one of the students like doesn't feel like it's been addressed or the problem has been solved but the administrator does, that's still not fully addressing it. So, I think just like making sure checking in with the student that they actually feel okay and like that like like with how everything was resolved cuz I know there have been there have been times where like an issue has occurred and the administrator or teacher was like, "Yeah, I addressed it. It's fine." But the student still had like pent up feelings about it. So, just to really check in with the student. >> So, allowing the student able to process cuz sometimes we wouldn't be able to tell you what happened to the other student. >> Yeah. But holding space with that other student for them to be able to share their impact >> and like even if you can't tell them like what happened like if someone bullied them and you can't say what happened with them just like telling them that they're heard and that like the problem has been like addressed like >> like you don't have to go into specifics but it's hard to speak out like to speak up and then not getting much response back makes it even worse. So just like really like focusing on that followup I think >> that's huge. >> Thank you. Yeah, I think that goes in when we talk about that summary that we can provide to students. it can have that piece in there as well as like what are who are who are their options of people they can talk to >> and even for sorry even for parents and students having that like tree of communication of like here's the how you escalate something >> because I think that's a big thing with a lot of families I talk to they don't know where to take it >> and that's where it feels kind of like it's a big machine how do you start >> that's kind of along those lines like I think the two areas that I hear a lot around kind bullying or um kids feeling bad or like there's these like big text chains that are you know go on especially like fifth, sixth, seventh where there'll be like a hundred kids on this like a mess on a text. It's like crazy and it's it is bullying is like taking like little jabs and people like leave the group come back. I mean even at one of my kids school I mean they the you know administration let the parents know in a particular grade like hey this is what's going on this is how you talk to and it was really helpful you know. Um, and then also I think the other big thing that kind of to your point of like is John I'm looking at you like the transportation like people get it I think conflated too like you know something happens on a bus like and they get like all riled up and then it's like where you know where do you go like who do you and it doesn't I think people don't like like oh you have to talk to the bus you know it's people no I want to talk to the principal about it right now and like I don't know so I think just I do think there's with this it's like it's an opportunity I know it's like not not necessarily the policy But like to even educate, provide some education. Um like kind of for families of like what to do, what to watch for. I even think like some of the social media stuff like Snapchat, like I have no idea like, you know, what to even look for, you know, to support like my school, you know, to say like, "No, you can't do that." I don't know. >> And I appreciate what you shared too about the follow-up because like you said, if you feel like as a student, it does it make a difference if I share anything. So thank you for that insight. It's really good. >> Our very last policy that we reviewed around student discipline. This might be the last one that we reviewed in our three hours engagement. [laughter] >> It's the one of the longest ones. >> Okay. Starting on student discipline. Overall, the policies were strong and clear. Like we're just remembering reading back. We didn't really have any problems with it. Even it was pretty clear and we felt pretty happy about it. Um doesn't really I don't think it really needs to change right now. I mean if you look at it and you think it does then you could say that okay compared to the other ones and then positive like support for early prevention. So, reviewing these, we noticed like a detailed step-by-step procedure. And it looks like it covers a lot of the bases more than I even thought that we had. But with that being said, I don't know how effective or if it's really follow through. Like we talked we talked about the hazing where the student would have the teacher would have to go to um lengths to like you were saying how they have to do the best they can. >> Yeah. So I don't know if it's followed suit or if it's actually being followed through as effectively. So that's something I want to know more about. >> And beyond the consequences of things on page uh 6 of 11 procedure 506 on 58 [snorts] provides all the step intervention that you can look at and that goes back to the second procedure but But I mainly want to know if it's really followed through and if it's really effective. I don't have any experience with that but >> and also yeah adding on to that also what support like following like the incident where the student was disciplined. Um because like of course like like people do like things that are wrong and they have to face the consequences and like it's always like I think it would be very beneficial to continue to support the students who do things that may not be the best you know because um like they're still students and they still deserve the support from the staff around them. >> So just adding that to the discipline part or like just keeping that in mind I guess. cuz like both can exist at the same time. Like discipline and support can exist at the same time. And I think that they should and I think more more emphasis should be put on the support for this and for like the bullying and hazing and the other ones that we talked about. >> Yeah. During our session, I think you said it really well in saying, "Oh, this is this is short term, right? this is kind of the immediate response and so uh how can we communicate long term that support and those interventions? >> Um one of the sessions that Amy led was with some of our principles and it I feel like it's the meat to the bones of what our policy is because it's the short term with the long term. So you're looking at a policy that probably is not the heart portion of it, but what the principles talked about was really the heart motivation behind how they discipline and the supports. So I agree like it'd be good to add in that there are supports given and like what those are. Um but there are supports which is I think really encouraging and I appreciate your guys's heart for the student and person beyond just what's on paper. So thank you. >> My opinion like I were to do something bad or misbehave in like fourth grade or whatever, I never got anything from a teacher yelling at me or fully disciplining me. There have been times where something like that would happen and then the teacher would be supportive or just be really nice and then that would allow me to actually change my behavior. I'm not saying that one is better than the other, but I think they both need each other and right now I think we need more support for our students. Yeah, I think a lot of people's first reaction when a student misbehaves is what are the consequences? How are we going to discipline them? Hard to punish them when it would be nice if the first question was why are they acting this way? Like what is causing this? Um because then that could help get to the root of the problem and like actually change it. Um because of course like when someone's yelling at you, getting mad at you, it just makes you not want to listen. So um I think just asking why to all students um when when when like if they happen in misbehave will be beneficial. >> Yeah. Negative attention. >> Yeah. That negative attention is still attention, right? But they might be needing and craving things. Yeah. >> And I'd like to ask has it changed in the past 10 years of like have you moved towards more support? >> My understanding is yes, greatly. Yeah. It was a really cool presentation and um they illustrated a lot of like the psychology behind behavior versus just the behavior and like you're looking at the fruit of something versus the roots and so addressing the roots. Did I capture you? You're the expert. >> Behavior is behavior is a form of communication. >> So we had opportunity for discussion along the way. So thank you all at your opportunity and I would just also be very open to your feedback today around [clears throat] process. So this was our first attempt at engaging with policy. So if this is something we continue to do in the future and you'd like to see it other suggestions very open to your feedback also. >> So thank you. >> And a question for you guys when you're reviewing the CD would be just asking them individually because you probably don't want to answer in front of us all. if this was like a helpful or like a good process for you to go through and if they want if this is something they feel adds value >> because we have standardsbased grading coming up so that [laughter] >> we're just laughing because we all kind of want to know too. >> Yeah, it's true. It's true. >> This was really helpful though for me. Like I really appreciate the time you took. It's a lot of time out of your day. You you guys have a lot of wisdom on these wages. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you. Drive home safely. >> School tomorrow. >> Yes. I'm sorry. >> Not for you three. Your excuse. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Unfortunately, I just got some the plows will be out between 2 and 4 a.m. So, yeah, we're going. I'm sorry. >> Use your resources. >> Yeah, right. [laughter] >> Thank you guys. >> So, I actually felt guilty there for a long time. [laughter] >> The board directors director, sorry. Um, I heard a lot regarding the bullying hazing. Um, so like with the cell phone policy, right, we did uh worked with Kay and sending out kind of like notification through family communications of, hey, we're looking at this policy. Would love your feedback. Um, uh, are there certain ones that you'd like to see that more extensive outreach on? Um, hazy. >> Yeah. Well, it'd be great to tie it into our community conversations. I think these are really easy onramps again to just >> Oh, that's right. >> They're natural stopping points for us. >> That'd be huge. But yeah, email communication would be good. >> But, you know, but not not everybody goes to that. So, I think that I mean, I love that idea. And I think both good. Are there are there do you want all of them? Just that one? >> Just that one? >> Especially that one. >> I think it's good to focus. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I think that one comes up a lot >> and that overlaps with safety things. mental health safety like Thank you. >> Oh, Amy, could I I had one quick observation. So, there seemed to be like a cool >> I know this was about the board policies, right? But there seem to be a lot of how do you translate this to like a student handbook kind of thing. So, I don't know if there's a I'm not trying to give work to people, but I don't know if there's a way to review >> kind of how this translates to the to the student handbook because they were asking a lot of questions like, "Well, what does that really mean? Are you guys what does this mean in your language or what does this mean?" >> And I know we do that on some level, but I think a lot of what they >> they do I will say like with the bullying hazing right now, they are just posting the policy and procedure. There are others where there's summaries. So, I've got I've got a pile on my desk over there about like kind of required notices and student handbook. And so, we it's kind of it's a good opportunity as we're going through these. So, that is um that is something that we're working on like readability, understandability, access is what we are looking at. >> Awesome. >> All righty. So we'll go on to our next one under enrollment and we have John Morad and the one and only BJ Herm, coordinator of K12 operations. I don't know if you're going to outimp impress the kids of what they just did, but >> I would never attempt. >> Yeah, we'll get we'll give her >> always go ahead gentlemen. >> Thank you, Dr. Hy. Tonight is the presentation about enrollment trends and projections that are reviewed annually to project enrollment for the next fiscal year and four subsequent years. These projections are the foundations of planning um for the staffing needs for the upcoming school year. And projections for next year include um that we're going to show you today actually include the major changes that came out of boundary changes and the addition of a new elementary school. Um our agenda for the day going to [clears throat] work first through some enrollment history. Um as we look at it all our history is primarily focused on the current year we call the current year is considered part of history for us now as we book it because once we get past October one um the state considers that our number locked in for the year we actually use November 1st as our our measure just because we have a little bit of volatility still in October. So from a budgeting standpoint, we like to use November, but those are the numbers. When when the state is metering out money to us, they use what your enrollment was on October 1st. So we'll talk about that. Um residents enrolled elsewhere, both public and private, kindergarten enrollment, our pre preliminary enrollment projections for next year, and then a brief discussion on some class size information. So all the data that we're going to look at tonight is based on our November 1st enrollment counts. We are also um we've kind of shifted like in the previous years we had looked at just K through 12 and uh with change of boundaries and and us modifying that we decided to switch and so we historically went back and added back in and switched to prek. Um so what we're adding in is is all VPK through 12. So that's the number we're going to present to you today. Um, overall district enrollment for fiscal 26, oops, sorry, I got switch. We actually in seeded exceeded last year's enrollment by 359 students or about 1.7%. Our prek through 12 enrollment of 21,09 students is 192 students less than we projected um last fall or It is important to note that last fall's projections when we made them um the final decision on the 279 online elementary program hadn't been made. So we projected like it still existed and so that is about 74 additional students that we would take off. Um so so if you back that away our we missed our projection by about 118 students um or.56 of a percent. So, our goal is to always be within 1% plus or minus of our projections. Just trying to be as consistent as we possibly can so that the DLC [snorts] team and AJ and his team can accurately staff so we have the people in the right places for the next school year. I see my slide didn't pick up a few of the numbers on here. Apologize about that. Um, so here's another way to look at this that same information, but you're kind of seeing it in um the red secondary and blue elementary lines for what our enrollment history has been. So you can see we did take an uptick in secondary this year and a very slight decrease in elementary. Um, typically thorough analysis of our 5-year historical trend is a key component in projecting future enrollment. that is really difficult to do when you're changing boundaries at all elementary and all middle school. So, while we utilized all of the um kind of cohort data as as kids move from grade to grade to grade, we still use those percentages but had to change all the numbers they were multiplying to because we were looking at a different picture for each school. So, so this is probably when it comes to an enrollment projection probably the least comfortable I've ever been putting numbers in front of somebody because there's so many factors that are a bit out of our control. Um, we did I spent a lot of time on it to try to make sure that we had this as pinpointed as possible to again try to be um respectful because those decisions are important. It this is the primary driver of our revenue and our budget and then therefore our staffing. So, here's a breakdown of enrollment by type. So, what you're seeing on the chart here is is the blue section are our current residents that are enrolled. Red is open enroll students coming in and green with the little sliver is is tuition. So, we either um have students who tuition and come into us on a tuition agreement of some sort. Um just much like we have others that we send out to say 287 on tuition agreement, we have some that come to us. Can I just ask like who like can you give me an example of like >> of a tuition in >> Yeah. >> Um I'm trying to remember how to describe it. >> A lot of times I think it's it's open enrollment but it tags into it's typically driven through special ed. >> Yeah. Okay. >> So it ties to that program. So that's that's where some will say hey I really like the the programs that you offer in this particular school. So I'm going to open enroll in. So it's it is open enrollment but it's not at the same time. So, it's it's a little a little >> Thanks. >> Um Minnesota has open enrollment options and and obviously families can choose to enroll in their students at public schools that are not the school district where they reside. We typically have a range between 1300 and 1700 students. Um this year our number is 1722 which is a 13 student increase over last year. the percent went down just a little bit just based on how all the percentages shift and I'll get to that. Um, but 8.2% [snorts] of our total district's enrollment comes from outside. Students outside of our district for us predominantly we receive students from Noah Henipin, Robbinsdale, Minneapolis [clears throat] and Brooklyn Center are the biggest ones. Um, we lose students to we actually lose more students to Noah Henipin, Brooklyn Center, and Fidley than we gained, but we gain more from schools like Buffalo, Minneapolis, and Robinson. And that's fairly typical for us over the last few years that we have that that pretty standard trend with no Hannipin. We lose more students than we were seeing. Um, typically open enrollment numbers do increase over the course of the year. So as we look at come back around to next year 1722 number will change. [snorts] Um but that's that's very normal. >> John uh for Anoka Henipin is that is that primarily at the secondary level or are we also losing students at the elementary level? >> M >> it's I think it's it's definitely more at secondary than >> the location of the school. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's that's typically your biggest driver of open enrollment is location. [snorts] It's it's the I mean I'm I'm the perfect example of that. My I live in the Elk River District. My kids open enroll to St. Michael Albertville because the schools are closer because I live in the city of Albertville and would have to drive to Rogers for school rather than I can see the schools a mile and a half. So it's not that far. All right. So enrollment actual versus projected. And I'm still going off the 192 number because that's the number that we projected. So elementary was 111 below, middle school's 20 over, high school's 47 over, and the other programs which are OEC transition, OALC alternative learning and the 279 online is 148 under. You can see a list here of the the schools where they were over by 10 or more or under by 10 or more. So, it's it's it's a bit of a mix between the two. Um, and this happens from time to time that that uh there's a number of factors that can come in here and obviously as we get a little farther into it, you're going to see private school numbers went up a lot and I think that's where, you know, that's something we really don't have any indication is going to happen. Um, so we tend to have to be reactive to that number. >> Jan, OEC, are you doing it to the age of 22 then or? >> Yes. So about 20 more kids than we've seen in previous years. >> Okay. >> Because they can choose to leave at the age of 21 as well. >> Yeah. And a lot of it just depends if you're ready. You can you can graduate out the program too. So but we do see we typically see OEC starts at a higher number at the beginning of the year and it just goes down as kids either age out or graduate which is exactly what we want. We want them to graduate. >> But uh we we see that because it's not driven on you need to be here this many years. It's you need to learn these skills and once you have them learned we want to bet you back send you off. So, okay. So, now we'll jump into the residents enrolled elsewhere. So, we've broken this into two two sectors. So, let's start with public. Um, other public options include traditional school districts and charter schools. This year, we saw an actual a decrease of 115 students or about 1.8% uh less chose to take the public option outside of Ocularary School. So, that's good news. um this number has been declining so slightly but declining for the last three years. So when people are making the option to say I'm going to keep my kids in public school um we're capturing more and more of those kids slowly but surely and we actually created our own capture rate for public school students. Um so of the families who choose public schools 75.2% 2% or three three out of every four of our resident students choose OIO schools. Um fiscal 26 we estimate we're capturing like I said every three out of four. Um second year of a notable improvement. Last year we went up a little over half a percent. This is a 8/10en of a percent increase. Um so again those those choosing public are seeing us as their primary option and one of the best options. So we're not necessarily losing them to charters. In the past, we had seen that happen a lot. We're actually pretty consistently seeing the enrollment in those charters, especially our our big ones around us, declining, and we're capturing those kids back. So, um, a lot of good information in those pieces. So, a little list here of residents, where do they tend? Most of our other public schools. So, so this is a list of any school district that has 60 or more of our residents, any public school. So, public or charter. The ones with the asterric are part of uh the Northwest Suburban Integrated School District. So, there's some reason within magnet that you may choose to go and and that takes you to an Okan or takes you to Fidley or something like that that you're still a student that left our system, but we kind of know why. So, it's really still a bit of a partnership. Um, so the the first three columns as you're going across are the previous years and then the fiscal 26 you kind of see we give you a little more detail. So you can see the number of residents we lost to say in Okan at 783, but we gained 502. So we're 281 down just to um and you can kind of see the variation. Obviously we gain more from Minneapolis and and a bit more 62 more students from say Robbinsdale um than the others. So when you're looking at charter schools um again the same 60 60 kids or more rule work we're putting in here. Carnacus is the largest charter school that we lose residents to this year. Um we lost 22 less than the previous year. If you kind of look at history there in 23 they hit their high of 940 and we're at 885 now. So it's a slight trend but a trend. Um, nice to see, especially on this one, we want to see red numbers in the far right column. So, it's really only Prairie Seeds Academy that have an increase in our students attending from previous years. The rest of them, we are gaining back. So, we gained back 179 students um that versus the previous year, choosing us rather than a charter school. So, now we're going to look at the private and home school side. And this unfortunately is not as favorable. Um, AIO schools residents choosing to attend private or home schools made up 2,985 students this year. Uh, that is an increase of 604 students over the previous year. Private schools increased 485 and homechool 119. Um, previously this number was spread over 59 private schools. We're up to 81 private schools. So 79 charter schools um charter and other publiclix att have kids of ours attending and 81 private schools. So 160 schools are our competition. That's a big number. Never I never thought it would be even a quarter of that. So that is that is a big number. If you look at where the biggest um pieces fall into play, Marinatha Christian, we lose 309 students which is about 5 million the previous years. St. Vincent down the street 286 again about five more. Heritage Christian is the largest increase. Um they're at 304 now up 65. They just opened a new addition onto their building with additional classrooms. So they increased their capacity, had a waiting list all the time. They captured their waiting list. So that's one of the bigger places that we lost. Um Providence Academy 28 kids up 49. So again, um, just that's pretty big move when you're moving that. >> What did you say? Marinatha's numbers was >> Marinatha is 309 up five. Dell is another big one. Um, 39 kids up 27 over last year. >> Is he visit Vincent Elementary? >> It's like K. >> Um, so the other thing that's always interesting with this is private schools don't have to give us any information and so a lot of times they won't. We just know the kid is no longer attending public school. We just are told they're they're in a private school. We don't say where. So, we actually categorize other non-public. 254 kids up 119 over the previous year. So, that's the biggest pot. Um and and that's one of those issues sometimes with public private is the rules are different. Private schools don't have to share any information if they don't want to. um there's nothing the state requires them to do to share to the resident districts even though we have there are some things within our levies and and so on that are tied to who lives in our district not who attends our district. Um but so they don't have to provide that information. So it becomes this gray area for us and that's where it can be really hard for us to know. I mean we we knew Heritage was building on because we could see it driving by. Um I didn't know quite when it was going to open apparently now. So we're, like I said, we're a little reactionary to this number after the fact. And this one is also very economically driven. So as the economy grows and gets stronger, we see that number go up. As it gets weaker, it comes down very noticeably. I think since the pandemic, especially on the homeschool side, you've seen more people willing to say, I'm going to keep my especially my youngest kids, my kindergarters, I'm going to homeschool them more frequently. Um just because I think that's that it's their choice and and they feel they can do it. And so I think there's a bigger willingness for people to try that at least and see if it's something they like. >> What was the pot of other What was that total? >> 254 up 119. >> Thank you. >> Yep. So this is a look at our overall resident capture rate. So our our resident capture rate this year is 67.3 which is a decrease of 8/10 of a percent from previous year. Um that [snorts] being said our our enrollment went up keep in mind our enrollment went up 359 students um because there are more students in our district. So we're we're capturing slightly less and we had made a nice move the year prior and I think this this is um a little bit of an anomaly because private schools jumped up by 1.7%. That's a pretty big move um on just on this chart over the last one. So I think that's an area of opportunity for us to dig into what exactly happened there. I don't have those answers for you today, but I think that's an opportunity that we want to dig into. You know, K's team has some great marketing folks that want to they want this information for me to be able to say, okay, I want to focus here, here, here. So for them, we get a little more granular granular alert and get down into this specific school, this specific school and give them that information and they can start tailoring their messaging a little bit more towards that. [snorts] >> So we are um it came down a little bit, but we're still at or very close to what our averages are in the overall capture rate >> and best practice is 75% rate. I mean, you want to be above >> 70 public schoolwise. 70 is kind of the magic number. [snorts] >> I was actually when I was reading through these feeling really good up until these last. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's that's the the kind of the weird thing about this is our enrollment's trending the way we want to trend. We're increasing students. It's this that private section that I'm just not quite sure what happened that caused that shift. So I think it's just we just got to dig a little and see what we can find. So kindergarten is always our favorite to uh project because it's the most difficult. Um traditionally what we do is get dependent countywide birthw birth number and track it versus how many kindergarters do we have historically and we average those percentages and then and then roll it forward. We actually saw an increase here. So normally that number is between 15 and 16% of live births historically if we're really looking back over the last 20 30 years. The last four or five for us that number dropped down to 12 to 13%. Um but this year we moved up to 15.13. So again that's that's a nice increase that we saw um up 2.8% over the previous year. while it's good um how we're seeing live births as a trend and I think if you've heard from any from the state demographer and any uh some of the other organizations they've been presenting things at in general the state of Minnesota is projected to decline in enrollment. Um right now we're a little more of an anomaly than than the average because we still have an area of growth. So while while we have that area of growth helping us offset for a while, that will come to an end at some point when it fills out and then I would expect we'll go into a steady decline. And that's um something you got to be prepared for. We don't see it on our our projections right now, which is good, but we're projecting five years. When I look at our 10-year projection, which we we have with the company that does all of our mapping, um we're starting to see at the end of that where where the the crown has come. That's what we know today. In five years, we could easily add 5,000 more housing units. There's space for it and then that pushes out another five years. But it's it's something to be aware of that is there. So, I just want to make sure that people understand that as births go down. So, even the Henipin County number, my feeling is we're going to get a higher percentage of that fairly consistently for the next few years. Uh because other areas of Henipin County are very built out and aren't going to have that. They're waiting for families to turn over homes, not add new homes. The other thing is that to you would want to note is so this class that amounts to 300 1392. So the the 1986 number there of res that's total resident kindergarteners. Um of that number we captured 1392 that attend our schools. So, some went private, some went private, so on and so forth. But that's what the number within our district is. So, we have 1392 kindergarteners today and we're graduating 2001 seniors. So, we have a little bit of a disparity problem there. There's 600 kids swing. Now, we have other areas. We had sixth grade increased students. We had nth grade noticeably increased students. So, we make that up. So, it's not as bad as as the number makes it out to be. So, it's I'm not sounding the alarm. It's just be aware that we're graduating more kids than we're bringing in right now. And so, we expect over time you'll start to see that trend go the other direction. Okay. So, the kindergarten resident capture rate, this is another good number, um that we're currently seeing for for all the residents in OIO area schools is just over 70%. this year. Um, so we're showing 70% for OIO, 15.6%, and this is just kindergarten for charter, 7% open enroll coming in, and 7% private or home. And if you look at that private or home, the number last year was three and a half. So, so that's again kind of reinforcing the something triggered people to want to go private or keep their kids as a homeschooled for another year. and we'd have to dig into exactly um some great questions to be able to ask if we can get the details on who did it and I think we have that information into our infosis to be able to perhaps survey and say why why did you make the decision you made so >> we'll look into those >> this is the year the babies were born in co year >> um yes this is this is the official >> so 1392 is above what we originally thought that number would be We're actually 60 or so kindergarteners higher than our projection was in kindergarten. Some of the other elementary grades is where we saw some more fluctuations, but yeah, so we originally thought we would go down about 200 kindergarteners over the previous year and we went down about 40. >> Not quite as bad. So taking all that information on top of we changed boundaries in every elementary and middle school. So we take our historical information and what we ended up doing is saying okay rather than me going to I'll use Basswood as an example. Basswood has this many students in it. Um we would normally say okay give me a six-year running average of that and how do those classes come in and how do how does it work out? And that's the foundation for what our our enrollment projection is. [snorts] Well, for this well actually I'll use Fernbrook as an example. Okay. So Fern Brook has that it's been growing growing growing. Now all of a sudden we say all right but I want you to take that for just this part of Fernrook and this little bit of Ellen Creek because that's Fern Brook. So we had to use our system to say this is what I want you to project based on these numbers. And then we still took our six-year cohort. How do our classes normally increase? how they normally grow and applied those in. So, so doing that so we get how many kids are attending in there and then we have to add in open enrollies add in any industry transfers that would come in subtract open enrollies that leave subtract in district transfers that go somewhere else. So there's about four or five components to each individual building to say that times every grade that they do. So if you like spreadsheets it's fine. Um, so this is the enrollment projection and this has been sent out to the buildings and that the each building gets detail on just their specifics. They don't necessarily get the full districtwide one. But what we're projecting for next year is 2186 students. Um about a 085 or so increase for the next four years. After that, we're projecting some anywhere between 1.8 a half a% to 1.8 20% increase, but we still are anticipating at this point that we will see steady increases as growth continues for the next four years. Um, these projections include, like I said, those boundary updates. We are still waiting on one piece of information to go with them, which is we gave families whose kids will go into fifth grade and eighth grade the opportunity to remain in place. And there is currently a survey out with them to try to gather the information of who is opting into that. Um so we can then adjust these projections so that we're providing accurate information for staffing. So if you know Fernbrook's a great example because the the biggest number of kids are going to move today we show something like 485 kids come out of there and can go towards the other school. Um there's going to be a fair some of those just I just want to finish my year at Fernburg. I want to finish my elementary [clears throat] career at Fernbrook and move on from there rather than switch to the new school. If you want to do that that's fine. So we're gathering those kids and saying okay who's going to do that? So we project the right number of kids in fifth grade for Fernbrook and the right number at Aspen Ridge and don't have the teacher hired at the wrong place. [snorts] So So we're supposed to have the that information by the end of the month here. Um, and then we'll be putting out an updated version of projections in early January that my colleague here [snorts] will turn and do his magic and turn into staff. >> Can you can you send us that data when you have it? >> Yeah. >> So, this is also a a line graph version of the same thing. Um as as you all know the growth data is one of the important items that ECMAC utilizes to make recommendations about capacity needs and opportunities in coming years. We have in in indications from the city of Maple Grove they just opened the um Rush what is it called now Rush Creek Boulevard that crosses the freeway there. So that is that now [snorts] um and that is the fastest route by the way from here to the new school is is that route. Um, but so now there is a corridor in on the south to go with a corridor in on the north. We've already heard from the city that once that opened, they anticipated and are already getting additional inquiries into development because it's easier to get there. They've run water sewer down a main line right by it. That's enticing for developers because then they don't have to front the cost, just have to pay the city for it. Um, it will spur more development come faster. So that's what what's anticipated and we saw that with Dayton Park when it opened other things open pretty quickly right around will be receiving all this information Monday. So last item is talking about class size information. So I would like to turn it over to BJ Armitter coordinator P preK12 operations and he's going to walk us through. >> Thank you. Uh thanks John. Uh we have some highle information for you on class size. Um this graph here is representing um our target class sizes and our average class sizes using uh the most recent data that we have available. Uh class size targets are represented in blue on the chart there and you can see the OIO averages in the orange compared against our regional average in green. We participate in a uh metro area study each year to compare our class sizes to uh other class sizes in the region. Um so you can see there that our average class sizes do uh come in uh below our targets and for some of the uh primary grades. Oio average class sizes are below the region. Um and as we get into some of the um intermediate and secondary grades um you'll see that osteio averages are slightly above the region that is pretty consistent to what we have seen uh over the past several years. Um and just for a note we uh we take class size averages for the secondary core classes. So your math, science, social studies and uh English um as we can have a lot of variability within elective courses at the secondary level. So you can see uh you can see how we compare and we know that in each of our buildings our average class sizes may be higher or lower than the average uh due to a number of different factors. But we manage this closely uh monitoring enrollment and collaborating with our site leaders, our enrollment center uh so that we can manage any hotspots as they arise um as class sizes start to approach that target. Uh we do not manage a class size minimum. So uh class sizes that are low in our district uh we typically do not do anything to address those. Oftentimes we get a question on uh what does it take to change our class size targets? Uh our current class size targets by the way were established in 2015 for the 201516 school year as part of our grade reconfiguration project. Um so they've been in place for quite some time and they have served us well. Um but we often get a question of what does it take to uh to impact that class size target? And as you can see here, it's a it's a 1.5 million per student per grade level uh annually. So if we wanted to take the kindergarten uh class size target from 24 25 to 24, for example, that would cost us uh $1.5 million per year. Um and so then you can see as we extrapolate that out across the grade levels, it's uh $9 million annually to lower again by one student in elementary, 10.5 million for our secondaries. Uh boundary changes as John's mentioned tonight uh are intended to balance capacity um provide more flexibility. Um so we will have more information about how boundary uh changes have impacted our class sizes next year. But what we expect to see is um some of our uh spaces where we have higher class size averages. We should see that balance out a little bit and some of the little spots should come up a little bit. The intent of that is to help balance our capacity uh to better match our student population as is the recommendation for ECMAC and the work everyone has been doing. For staffing, uh we have an enrollment management committee that uh regularly monitors enrollment shifts throughout the year. Um it's very heavy in the August and September time frame. So my my team and I are looking at enroll enrollment reports on a daily basis uh throughout the month of August and September uh analyzing our class sizes and making uh recommendations on where we may need to make adjustments uh throughout that period of the year. For the rest of the year, we are monitoring uh on a regular basis. And again, that enrollment management committee meets regularly to talk about uh where we see capacity issues, where we see class size concerns, what we're hearing from our sites, what we're hearing from our families, what we're hearing at the enrollment center, and where do we need to make adjustments uh to um to impact that class size. Um and each year DTL our division holds an FTE contingency to be able to respond to um hotspots where we see uh enrollment um show up in places we didn't expect it. So we are able to respond in a timely manner and just deploy that FTD where we need to. Uh and that happens regularly throughout the year as we uh become aware of issues. Um and it's a process that has served us very well. All right, there is a kind of a onepage handout that summarizes the class size information available in the packet for you along with a few other very detailed charts um for enrollment kind of variances that have come through the current year projections and all that. That's just for your information. um the the one one pager for class size is really intended so you have that information if you're having to um get the question in the grocery store and somebody says our class sizes are high you have some information that you can utilize. Um it's always a a a interesting subject because you know are there some classes that that may exceed or or may hit that target it happens. [snorts] It just depends. I mean the Fern Brook's a good example. We literally do not have a free classroom there to put anybody. So, we're stuck with these are the only um is the only space we have left. So, we have to fill. If you look out in the variance, it shows plus 41 students in kindergarten. Now, as we got in August and started, I think we made both calls in August, but we ultimately added two kindergarten sections >> right before you started. >> Now, one of them took a lot of creativity and we actually had to take away the staff lounge to turn it into a kindergarten classroom. So, not what we normally want to do, but we know the solution is a couple miles away and and we'll be ready next year so teachers can have their back and we can kind of reconfigure that building back to a more traditional classroom. So, it's just the the es and flows of of heavy growth in an area and how we have to react to that. And I would just add to on times when space is a consideration or or an issue, we have u deployed additional ESP support really trying to kind of shrink that experience in the classroom. So that's something as as BJ was talking about that really starts out in earnest. So we're watching that as soon as we get start getting those stable numbers in August, but we're able to quickly deploy any of those resources. turn it back to you for any questions. >> Thank you. You want to ask that question? >> Well, I just Okay. I think it's really helpful. I've heard, you know, I there's absolutely cost to change in class size. But I I guess I'm just curious of like [snorts] can you explain to me or like what that 1.5 million like I don't I couldn't go to I feel like if I was in the grocery store and somebody said like gosh Kelsey like I am my I need my class sizes reduced and I'm like well for each student it'd be 1.5 million and I think they'd be like what are you talking about? So can you help just like kind of break that down of like what does that actually >> so so it's 1.5 for every kindergarten class to go down by one >> in the whole system >> across the district >> across the entire system. So, and is that it says the target, but the target is not a number we the actual number, right? The actual average. >> The target is the number we use uh to staff with. So, it is a representation. It's a distribution factor for the resources that we have. So, for the number of students we have and the resources that we have for classroom teachers, that is the number that allows us to have the class sizes that we have. Right? So to to lower that class size target would mean we would need additional teachers because we have kids in smaller groups and that's where that additional cost comes in. >> But our averages are lower than that. >> Yes. >> I'm sorry. This is Did you get your question? Okay. Cuz I [laughter] kind of >> I'll keep rolling because I kind Okay. >> Here's the best way we can explain. So, so the airplane's full at 25 kindergartens, right? So, that's that's us maximizing the resources. That's how much furniture we typically put in a classroom for a kindergarten to be able to handle it. Um, when they're doing staffing, they do ratios that also apply to counselors and other positions. So, for every kid in a building, you hit certain levels and we add additional support staff, not only classroom staff. That's just where we start. From there, you have the ability to utilize other funding sources like compensatory to say, "Well, I what what are the biggest needs in my particular building? If I'm at Palmer Lake, are are my needs heavier? Do I have a higher EL population?" Okay. Well, we need to be able to bring in additional EL teachers. I I may say, you know what, I I have additional revenue available and I want to make my fifth grade smaller so I can use some money I have to to change that class size. That's where we start to bring our way down to the act the averages and they're averages. I mean they're highs and lows in there too. So not every classroom when you see 20 point whatever or 19 what I forget what the kindergarten number was um are at that number. There's there's some that are at in the low teens there's some that might be at 25. Typically we are not going to let them go above that target unless it's a actual building constraint. So it's that difference is a flexibility. That's the flexibility that we have to be able to utilize either other funding or the principal to make decisions on on they have certain needs that are higher or lower in their particular building. And so they're choosing to say I might let this class size go up a little bit higher because I need the interventionist not another teacher, you know, not another classroom teacher. Sorry, that's probably the right term. So, so, so there's some flexibility and that that's where I think as BJ described it, you know, we've done this now for 10 years and it's actually served us really very well. You can see financially how we've really um been very consistent in how we spend our money and how we budget and in general, we're pretty much right on to what it's going to be even with the es and flows and those allowing that variability and that flexibility for the buildings so they can address their individual needs. So the target is like the pot of pot of money they get as a school or each all like all the kindergarten classes would get this pot of money for 25 students. >> So to decrease it, it would decrease it would have to increase that number because you're adding another teacher. That's why you would increase the >> Okay, kind of get it. >> Thank you. Sorry. >> So that's across the district. But like if a school were they were like they could use other funding or whether it's compensatory or PTO if a PTO is like here's >> I'm just I'm just trying cuz I'm just >> I know but I am saying like I mean there is there are it's >> we're looking at it like districtwide but like building to building can be augmented a little bit based on resources >> I think that's the biggest one. The biggest one is compensatory. >> Yes. >> Where they can make those local decisions. You know, sometimes principles will say, you know, we've got we've got a a cohort of students in a particular grade level that we know would really benefit from from really sort of being having an additional teacher or additional resources to support them. So, provided they have those compensatory dollars, they're able to deploy that. >> Buy down the >> Yeah, exactly. fifth grade. >> So the other example is Rush Creek had high numbers going to fifth grade, right? You're starting to hear a little bit of feedback about it. >> The the contingency that BJ talked about. We have a chunk of money set aside in the budget for the and this is really at DTL's discretion to say, "Okay, they talk, they meet, and they go, we're we're hitting the crunch point here, so we need to add another fifth grade class." And so then they the group gets together, the enrollment group, and we talk about it and say, "Yep, go." And they're going to get that person hired to do what they need to do to fill that class. >> Okay. >> And so that's an example. The two at Fern Brook this year. So we did deploy that. I think you deployed some ESPs for >> some other I feel like they did it in my kids school one time like before the beginning of the year they added like a >> kindergart that's a critical point because there is kind of that sweet spot in terms of getting cuz hiring a teacher getting them all >> uh in place we want to make sure that you know if we're in a crunch point we want to have that uh we want to have that teacher or that staff member in so they can be part of the professional development be ready and have that have that classroom ready to And besides kindergarters connect to their teachers quickly. So >> yeah, you don't all of a sudden have to move kids out of a class away from a teacher. So >> okay, that was helpful. >> So the target is a funding model. >> Yeah, >> basically it's like your best guess of how this will fund it correctly. Is that what it is? >> Equitably distributed. >> Yeah. So is there a best practice I guess is like the only word you can come up with about what class sizes are like optimal? So outside of funding and maybe this is sorry this might not be your question. You you're the spreadsheet guys. >> Yeah I'm more the numbers guy. [laughter] There's I I know there's some thoughts and that's probably a better question for learning and achievement folks because I know there's uh there's studies and best practice >> John Hatt's work. Yeah, >> right. Um and I think it varies. But I think there are perspectives that class size uh matters a great deal and perspectives that it you know it it doesn't have as significant impact uh as some other things might. So I would refer to them uh on on what the best practice is. But what from a numbers perspective as we look at where our class sizes come in to targets um I can say consistently we don't have class sizes that sit over target. Um that's that would be a concern of ours. um as we look at our class size averages and compare them to the region, we sit uh we sit right in the middle consistently year-over-year um and when we do see things that um I would say uh when we were working on the middle school model back in 2018 2019, we saw that our middle school class sizes got a little too high, right? the middle school class size target at that time was 35 [cough] and we had to do something and adjust that model and and bring that class size target down to 33 and by adjusting the model we were able to afford that and now our averages are back in line across the region. So um that's how we look at it from a numbers perspective if that helps. Um, a couple asks that I would have if you when you when and if we have them available are could we see the averages at schools per classrooms so that we can notice the change for next year when the schools are balanced? >> So change the school averages per class. >> Yeah. Can we see the >> per by grade? So like >> the classroom sizes per grade. Yeah. The averages of the school. Yeah. >> Not the average, right? The actuals. the actuals probably is what I'm which is a lot of information. Um but will this how will it how will balancing the schools impact our average the balance basically basine how can we show it sorry thank you >> I mean that's essentially the charts we bring to the enrollment management meeting right I'm sorry I'm asking them a question >> yeah I think you're right >> because it would be like is what you're asking like um basswood kindergarten four sections Yes. >> Mhm. >> 100 kids, 25 students per section, >> first grade. That's what you're asking. >> And I think the main concern is there's a [clears throat] felt need that a lot of classrooms are really full. And maybe it's mostly at Burn where there's it's a packed school right now. So, it feels full even though the classes may not be sizes. >> Um, but there's a felt pain of our classes are really full. And so, if we can break it down a little bit further and have that understanding, that would be helpful. and then for next year to be able to say look this is what that did and I always think it's good you know I kind of harp on this like being able to sell what that referendum is doing is huge like we have to continue to be able to communicate this is what you passed and this is why it's helpful >> um show just showing the benefit >> um and then why don't we do anything about u minimums to address minimum class sizes >> um uh I would say it's related to what we were just talking about the way that kids attach to their teachers, it's disruptive to a school to remove a teacher, right? So, if we had a low class size um to remove a teacher and do we move that teacher somewhere where there's another need. Now, we have done that in the past during the pandemic um and um in some other years we have done that. It's really disruptive to a school building. So, um it is our responsibility to try to staff in a way that we don't have that happen. Um, and since then we haven't really seen >> uh very low class sizes. I think one year we had low kindergarten class sizes because the students didn't show up like we thought. >> Um, but it's that's why we uh we staff very carefully to make sure we don't end up in that situation. And then we we really do everything we can to not be disrupted to the to the school building and the classroom experience. Having been worked in a district where that was the practice, it it can absolutely especially in those primary grades where and with kindergarten because we just don't it's harder to predict >> for for kindergarten for sure. But um it it can be detrimental and difficult and um and has a a pretty uh pretty significant impact on our teachers as well. >> Culture. Yeah. But yeah, if you think about you're a school that has one section of kindergarten and we suddenly have 26 27 kids, we're going to split that. So you now have 13 in class. >> But we hit the target. So we're going to commit to doing the right thing and saying we want you within the target. That happens. The other thing that I failed to mention before when we're talking about compensatory, we talk about it as this big bucket, but compensatory is has to be spent 80% of the building that generates it, >> right? And we have a wild discrepancy in those numbers. So just at the elementary, we have an elementary that does like $1.7 million in compensatory and another one that gets less than 30,000 compensator. Um so huge variations. You know, we have we go up to a a senior high that gets 3.4 million commencement. They can do a lot more. Their flexibility in that chart is substantially higher. Now their needs are higher. So that's what it's intended for. So, I'm not trying to downplay it, >> but but that's we're we're there's a lesser bucket. If you're if you're a school that has very low compensatory, it's going to be a little lot more difficult for you to lower your class sizes because you don't really have that much of a tool. You can buy a half an FTE, not three. So, so it's a it's the impact's just less. >> I had some just other follow-up questions, but I don't want to take up all the time either. You got one minute. [laughter] I >> feel like he's serious. [laughter] >> Like I'm like >> that time is real for [laughter] >> Okay. Um and I was more looking at these the school enrollment estimates for the next two questions. at schools like Rice Lake where there was a large variance in population of the expected versus actual. What sort of review is done to understand the shift better? Um, and this isn't a it conversation. We probably don't have the answer tonight, but could you share findings related to that? Um, there were significant negative enrollment patterns at Fernbrook and fourth through fourth grade and then Rice Lake third through fifth grade, Edenbrook third and fourth and then Elm Creek kindergarten and fifth grade which was interesting. Um, could you share any information you have gathered about why those occurred? Um, and then was any, and you kind of answered this one, was any follow-up done to understand why the number of residents who chose to enroll in private schools jumped so significantly this year? If so, can you share those findings and how we plan to mitigate them? >> Yeah. So we typically once we've projected enrollment we go look back and say okay what what I I'm always wondering what is I didn't do great on these why did I I might have been within my 1% but there's areas for opportunity that you're kind of highlighting there the majority that we've seen in the past where that counts is we overestimate how many people will move in new development >> so frook in those middle grades well what we did is we underestimated how many were coming in in kindergarten and overestimated some of the next grades >> so where we were plus 40 in kindergarten and then minus some others um came in I think just a little overall I think we're pretty close on on total number >> but wrong place. >> Yeah, that makes sense. >> So, but again that the more we can smooth that out the little better it is because otherwise you know now Steve is going say you know that kindergarten teacher you have can you move to first grade? >> Um and we don't want to put him in those situations because that's not what necessarily that person was hired for. [laughter] >> So it's not necessarily like a loss of student. It's just a projection. >> Yeah. >> Which that's normal. >> Much like the budget, the projection's wrong the day I hand it to you. It's our best guess at the time. >> Totally. >> But I guess along those lines, I mean, I like we can't pretend to say this political environment isn't causing, >> you know, some impact on public education. I mean there I mean that's I think that that's going to be an interesting piece of like you know, in what ways does the political climate influence our district? You know, public education. I mean, there's been a push for vouchers. There's been a push for private. There's been a push for um I mean, it's just facts. I mean, that's just what people are talking about all the time. So, I think that, you know, I think that's why it's even more important for us to like double down in our CTE and our, you know, um just the offerings that we have, our magnets, and just promote the the what public education can can do and be um and how we serve our communities, you And I think that we can't pretend that that's not a a factor for for some people maybe, you know. >> Well, and I think that's why it's so important to have a follow-up survey if we're able to do that with people that leave. And I don't know if we are, you briefly touched on it, but I think that is gold in terms of understanding where our target market is really, what they're thinking and feeling. And that's important. Just I'll just add um this really kickstarts off so like we're going to do a lot of digging in like in in last year um but we've had our school information fair twice now and that's been a a big success. Um I really like seeing the number with like we're capturing more of the those choosing public options, right? Um of course we want everybody to be be choosing public options, but like it was nice to see that number >> um go up some. So, but we'll um dig into it further. Um even based on some of the numbers that John shared um with us this last year, we were a we did a little bit of a different strategy. We've done we've continued to do a lot with CTE magnets um those transition grade years like um the school information fair. This year we added presentations and like the transition from sixth to 9th >> um that would like the whole room was filled. So like that just felt like a huge opportunity there. And then even some of like our um private schools or even charter schools in the community, they end at 8th grade a lot too. So that's definitely an opportunity that we've always tried to jump on as well. Um some even let us come and do some presentations. So um we'll take not obviously some are a little bit more apprehensive than others, but um it it was nice to see the kindergarten numbers um to because that's a a huge push for us as well. So we even added a different strategy kind of based on the numbers that John shared with us this last year too. We pinpointed um some schools too um and we've seen some success with those um as well. So, we'll continue to dig into the data and see like what are those areas. >> And I don't I don't want my comments to come off as like it's an it's a you enrollment and like contact issue. It's sometimes the product and like us as a school district what are values not matching what our school district population is looking for and that's why people left. Is that the difference? So, I think that's more the question, not necessarily. >> I mean, like um like we we did a survey like 2021 and really dug into that some obviously a little bit outdated, but like right we can't offer like if someone's looking for religious education, right? It's not something we can offer, right? And then some of the feedback, >> but I have seen your the marketing on like social. I think it looks really good. Like it does. >> Yeah, it really does. >> It's very inviting and warm. >> Team team effort. >> Yeah. Sorry, it was over a minute. >> I didn't need >> It's my fault. >> I'mma bring it home, Thomas. Bring it home. [laughter] Okay. All right. So, we we have the calendar uh that's set here. Um in January, we're going to uh start going deeper into um standard based grading. So, there's actually going to be a point in the January work session that we're just going to teach the board about standardsbased grading. So, that's how we're going to start there. We'll be teaching our scholars as well. We're going to touch base on update on the park center, uh, health center, health clinic, and then we're going to go over that one-year operation. Um, not much of this has changed. I do want to show you this beautiful CTE. Take time to look at that because there's like a beautiful connection of where you can start picking up classes in middle school and how it goes across there. And there's even one area on here that reflects on um early post-secary opportunities and when can you get postsecary credit when can you get credit just from our classrooms. So this will be going out and we're very excited to start this with our new CTV construction and our programs and being able to bust our babies to go to whatever school they want to um to take these classes. So, >> so we're mailing this out >> or >> I don't know that we're going to be mailing them out like everywhere. I know there's definitely going to be a handful at like cuz we have registration nights coming up. >> So, have them available. I know they're going to be somewhat. They look great. >> Yeah. >> Okay. 8:12. >> All right. Um, [laughter] meeting adjourned at uh 8:12. >> Good job. I do. Thank.