All right, then I would like to call the listening study session together. Um, it's a little less formal than when we're up there and but I would still like to start by reading the land acknowledgement statement. We acknowledge Robinsdale Area Schools is located on the homelands of the Dakota and Ajiway people. We recognize the painful history of genocide and forced assimilation of the indigenous habitats of this land. We honor and respect the many indigenous peoples who live on and hold sacred these lands. And we stand with members of these nations to fight injustice in all of its forms. We uphold the preservation of Dakota and Aju languages, land-based education, and tribal sovereignty. I am Bria Evans Becker. I am the board chair. And when we have study sessions, everyone introduces themselves at the table. So, we're going to start by going that way. Amy O'Harn, executive director of human resources. Ellen Bass with school boards, executive director, community education, athletics, and activities. >> Can I school board school board Caroline Long, school board, >> Kristen Hisel, chief financial officer, >> Bob McDall, assistant superintendent, >> Renee Bowman, school board, >> Terresa, superintendent, >> and we're back. Okay, first things first. Um, we have our purpose and agenda, and I'm going to hand that over to Super. >> Thank you very much, Sher Becker. Good evening. Good evening board members. Um the purpose of work sessions is for board members and administration to discuss uh issues and um topics of need for the district in order to support efficient and effective decision making um at the board table. Uh as we do with each of our um agendas, uh we take a look at the board working document under the five as outlined in the five uh roles of board governance. And tonight, the action and the work that we're going to be doing is under the board role of operational performance oversight and organizational direction. Um, specifically this evening, the board will be uh continuing to work toward the approval of a statutory operating debt um plan, which again is due January uh 35, January 31st. Also um the continued work of monitoring the use of enrollment trends to plan strategically for current and future facility staffing and budget. Continuing the work through the phase one of the vision SOD plan um with additional options being shared tonight by the site. But in that case, we're going to move right on to the district governance and policy section of our agenda. And letter A under that is school board officers for 2026 a discussion. Um I did email all of the board members saying if you are interested in running for a position or interested in being an officer to please let me know. I'm still waiting to hear. So, um, sorry if if if anyone is interested in running for officer positions, if you could let me know tonight, you could let me know by next meeting. I just want by the time we do our organizational meeting in January, I would like to be able to have a slate of officers so that um, we can have an efficient meeting. And so, you can nominate someone, you can nominate yourself, you can just say, "I am interested. I feel I can do this. I'll start it off. I'm interested in being the chair again next year. Does anybody else have anything they'd like to say at this time about that? >> Yes. >> Oh, about you. About your interest or >> I was thinking about your own interest. If you're interested in my interest, I'm interested in that too. >> I'm interested in it, too. >> In being checked. >> No. >> Oh, no. >> You mean No. >> Okay. >> Uh I am interested in being court. >> Okay. Well, we still have time. I'm not going to dwell on this. Just >> So, do I have to still send you an email? >> No, we talked >> probably has probably written it down. >> Got it. Okay. But otherwise, uh we still have clerk. We No, we don't have clerk. Well, we I mean someone else could be interested in chair or clerk, but we still definitely have treasurer and vice chair. So, I wait listen I await hearing from you, but I'm going to move on to letter B. Uh schoolboard committee assignments discussion. the all of the assignments are in the document that we have and also there's a blank sheet of them and Molly's willing to fill in now or you can let me or Molly know what you're interested in. Just because you're on the committee this year doesn't mean you have to do it next year. It also doesn't mean you get like dibs on it necessarily. >> I I would I would like to step back from Brooklyn Bridgelines. The meeting times are just really inconvenient for me. >> Okay. Did you get that one? >> Okay. >> Stay on continue with redesign. You're just getting settled in some new work and so >> yeah I'm enjoying the work with the policy committees on sustain. >> Thank you. policy policy. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm happy to stay on policy and um I guess I would like to continue um as treasurer. >> Okay. Interested in treasurer. Back that up to a and then also um FAC. >> I want to be on FAC >> and and director Basset would like to be on FAC >> and I'm also on the FAC >> and you're on FA's on FAC. I particularly like ECAC district curriculum advisory. I can I can be flexible on and um when director Brides is director Bridges we will take your choices also or you can like let me know you have my email and we can plug that in in time for the organizational meeting. Anybody else? Yes. Um, if you're uh not if Aviva is is unable to do the Brooklyn Bridge Alliance, that's the last of this whole package. I'd be really interested in taking that on to learn about it. That's the one thing I haven't done in three years. >> Okay. So, Brookian, I've been very interested in that. >> Okay. Got it all. Super. Okay. Other things you want to let me know about just let me know. >> Send an email. >> Yeah. Or you could, you know, talk to me in person. I can too. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you very much. This takes us to number five, operational performance, oversight and organization direction, statutory operating day. Excellent. As the presentation is being uh put back up there. Um good evening again, chairman board members. Tonight we'll continue the phase one of our work regarding the site consolidation and budget reductions needed in order to complete the statutory operating debt plan. Uh have it approved by the board and submitted to MD of January. Um we do not have flexibility with those deadlines. So this is deadline from the state that we are currently working under. Um in the presentation tonight will provide context again of the statutory operating debt process timelines recommendations as well as additional information requested by the board regarding both the site consolidation facilities options as well as additional options to the non-f facility budget adjustment recommendations. Um we'll also at the end of the study session we'll discuss the process and procedures for the December 15th um hearing on school closures. You've seen this multiple times since uh September 23rd. Um and you have all worked through a process with much information, much discussion. Tonight we continue that discussion and we'll bring forward as I said earlier additional information that you requested um and we'll seek direction so we're prepared for the next step which is that the board will hold the public hearing as part of the business meeting next Monday and take action on a resolution for school closures. board will review the final statuto operating debt plan on January 5th and vote on the S so plan on January 20th at which point if approved we will submit it to MDE by that timeline. >> Quick question if it's not approved then do we have another meeting before the end of the month? >> Good to know and again we just have to abide by the um the three-day posting and all that. So, good to know. We think we need to look at that, investigate it on the calendar earlier rather than later. I think we can do it. I just >> Thank you. Sorry. No earnings. >> Um, go this direction. Uh, the next slide again is a reminder. You've seen this extended timeline numerous times. The so plan to include reducing our footprint through initial building closures, consolidations, and reconfiguration is only the very first step in a multi-phase approach to getting to a physically sound place as we reimagine a better Robbinsdale area schools. So I just show those two timelines again um as a reminder to both board and to the larger community um that we've been working on this for a long time. Multiple meetings, much information um and we have a long way to go in this. We shared this list with you for the first time on October 13th. We anticipated at that point that concerns, fears, uncertainty and disagreement of difficult decisions um would take place and we wanted to be sure that you were aware of that at the start of this process. So as you look at this slide, these are some of the things we anticipated and I think these are some of the things that have certainly been true. This work is complex. It will feel clunky. It is imperfect. Folks will experience that the pond is shrinking effect and that brings a lot of emotion with them. There'll be competing interests that result in intense advocacy and strong statements. Our community has done an outstanding job of sharing those perspectives with the board. Almost everything will have tradeoffs. There will be direct and indirect impacts to students, staff, and families. There will be impacts to staffing, programming and boundaries and possibilities and opportunities will be created. So because of what we anticipated would emerge, we have been intentional in a process that would help us make difficult discuss decisions while seeing the possibilities and the opportunities in front of us. Last November, as we learned that we needed to reduce the budget by between 19 and $21 million, we did not have time at that point to engage in a process to close schools for this year. So, I know some questions about that. Why didn't we just close buildings last year? We simply didn't have the time by the time the budget needed to be approved by the board. We spent from November of last year through the spring studying and reducing the budget by $16 million while we also engaged in a robust community engagement process to co-create a vision of what our community wanted us to be. While doing both of those things, reducing the budget through difficult decisions and working with our community to establish a vision forward, we also brought to the board and community during this time a new demographic study and presentation by Hazel Reinhardt so that people understood the enrollment projections as we look to look at what our our future enrollment right sizing the district would be. Results from a comprehensive facility assessment. Again, that was something that was not here and we needed to have current data in order to be able to make decisions about which buildings um needed the most deferred maintenance uh and to be able to prioritize that. We also shared information on how we were meeting the reduction targets for staff, programs, and administration throughout the entire process. There's lots of board meetings we can go back to to take a look at evidence of that. The work on the statutory operating debt site consolidation and budget reduction plans, but based on data that has been provided publicly in all information that's been presented can be found on our websites. Along the way, we've been transparent about the process and clear with decision-m criteria. It's natural and it's normal for people who feel the loss of might be uh for for people who feel the loss of what what might be to question the process to question the timeline to question the data to question decisionm to question the need for reductions in the first place all of that we anticipated and it's certainly we understand it we Understand I understand that change and loss is difficult. None of us here tonight takes delight in closing schools or making budget reductions. However, decisions must be made and it's our responsibility ultimately uh to make those decisions. We also want to be sure the community understands our current context which is why we've been transparent with the process, timeline, and data for the past year and a half. Again, all of that information is on our website. We have great schools. It would not matter which of our schools were being considered for closure right now. We would be hearing what we're hearing this evening. Our staff across the district is caring. Our students across the district are brilliant. Our parents across the district are engaged. and our community for each one of our schools and as a district is supported. We provided options and recommendations to the school board. We've answered your questions and we brought back additional information as requested. My job, our job as a team collectively is to ensure that board members have the information that you need to make informed decisions. Just want to remind you we are managing some complex change and in doing so we've created a shared vision of both that shortterm and longer term of where we need to be. We've done that to minimize confusion. We have a team with skills to maximize or minimize anxiety. We have shared incentives of what can be to minimize resistance. We've explained the need for reworking resources which minimizes frustration and we provided short-term action plan which avoids false starts. None of this is easy for anyone. However, it's necessary to minimize distractions to focus on the work and make decisions now to help the desired state that we want to and need to as a school district. With that, I'm going to turn over uh turn this over to um CFO Hohheisle to just continue to ensure that we have shared understanding about statutory operating debt as well as our budget. Thank you, Dr. Stallow, and good evening everyone. Um, as we look at this slide, the statutory operating debt slide, uh, it was first presented to both the schoolboard and the community in town hall meetings, uh, in the fall of last year. And it was reflective specifically at that time of the 2024 2025 budget and school year. And there was a realization that the staffing reductions that were projected to be implemented in 2425 were not. It created a significant deficit and at that time we said we would be in statutory operating debt coming into this school year. What does statutory operating debt means mean? It means that when there is a deficit at the end of the year that exceeds 2.5% of our annual operating expenses. So for us, and it varies from year to year depending on those annual operating expenses, anything where if we were a deficit of $4.3 million or greater, we would be in SOD. And coming out of the 2425 school year, our uh unassigned fund balance is approximately $11 million. Uh >> oh. Well, we're dead. We'll just go that way. So, what what this means I'll just keep going. What this means uh for us is it means that the district must develop a detailed plan approved by the school board and submitted to the Minnesota Department of Education outlining how we will recover financially by the end of January. It means increased state monitoring. The city closely monitors the district finances and may require regular progress updates to ensure that the district follows its recovery plan. And the potential consequences of us not doing that are that if we don't make adequate progress, we could face additional state imposed restrictions and uh that might mean local decision making a loss in local decisionm flexibility even more finite. the school board um will have to adopt a resolution by the end of January that says that that you agree to reduce the current year expenditure by all legal means possible without negatively impacting current programs or contractual obligations and you agree to immediately discontinue the practice of approving deficit budgets. And so what this means is even though for example even though coming into this year we cut uh approximately $16 million for the 2526 school year we projected that we would need to cut 19 to 21 million which means that our projection of what our revenues are and our expenditures are we we still expected that deficit to grow. that will no longer be able to happen in a Minnesota Department of Education uh approved plan. The board will also need to agree to a dollar fordollar cut in current and future budgets to respond to the negative variance in revenues and expenditures. So we need to balance revenue and expenditure every year and cut dollar for dollar. We will also need to work our way towards so that's an annual implementation plus work our way towards getting out of the deficit that has already been created. If we do not agree to these we uh or excuse me there is also you need to agree that any aid formula improvements from the legislature will need will be used to reduce debt. What that means is when we hear um when the legislative body goes into session and they say we gave um improvements on district's general ed formula by 2%. We don't have the latitude to use that additional 2% for additional spending. We will take that percent and we will apply it towards this deficit that has already been created. Meaning that even though as costs goes co go up as it relates to aid or the state recognizes they're going to support us more, we don't have the latitude to use that money to support that. We have to use it to offset the deficit or the $1 million that's already been created. And then we will submit preliminary budgets every year showing that we are at least balance. Our revenues equal our expenditures. And um what that what we anticipate the progress of removing the negative fund balance. There is no more option to wait on not doing as much as uh we need to do. This slide has been presented in the past and this is a visualization of what it would look like to do nothing. Now again it's contradictory in a sense that it's like well what would happen if we just waited what would happen if we didn't address it this is what would happen and this is what has happened in the past as stated if you look at 2425 we are coming out of an audit that audited year with uh $1 million unassigned deficit and again even though we made $16 million in cuts this year if we were to achieve and a revised budget is forthcoming. But if we were to achieve the 19 to$21 million deficit, we're still overspending. That's what that yellow indicates. That says every year we're not our revenues are not equal our expenditures. We at least need to cut that yellow. And that's this year. So we're still deficit spending this year as we plan for next year. This year's deficit doesn't go away. that moves into the next year and then there's increasing costs of rising costs with contracts inflation and various things estimated I mean that realistically could be you know let 2 to 4 million so you see a combined 9 million and that is why uh administratively we're saying that the board at least needs to cut $8 million at least to even balance to meet the one uh the one statement that says our revenues equal our expenditures that is not addressing uh the negative balance that already exists. However, on the plus side, what that looks like once we start uh with whatever the approved plan is under the Department of Education's um parameters, it means that as we move forward, like I said, the 5 million, and I do believe that will be less as the revised budget comes in, but that we're still deficit spending. And then next year if we when if we cut 8 million or more it eats away that that yellow carryover. So now we become more balanced. Um I would as we get finite numbers uh the 8 million is the middle distance between the moderate and aggressive as for the 2 to4 million of inflation. And so presumably we hold at the 16 million and then every year we're going to continue to need to cut just to keep our revenues and our expenditures equal. But then as we move into the future with uh whatever the the school board and the district decides to do with the vision of Ardale, that's when you start making progress towards eating away at that deficit balance. Yeah. Any any questions on that? Just want to be sure that few questions on that. Want to make sure that everyone's you're good. All right. So, moving on. What we wanted to do was just again, and I'm going to go quickly through these slides because you've all seen them before, but trying to put everything in one spot again so that you have it is reviewing the facility recommendations and the rationale behind them to this point. We've talked about uh way back in October about uh trying to push everything through from an option standpoint, efficiency, effectiveness, and equity. And at the same time figuring out what's desirable, feasible, and sustainable over time. We also presented primary and secondary decision-making uh points that we would use as we started looking at facilities and how we would go back and forth uh trying to figure out what options were out there as we pushed through those filters. Later in October, we presented considerations both at the elementary level and at the secondary level. And these were general considerations around how many elementary schools and how many middle schools uh we thought that we were going to need. That led us to this general recommendation on the 20th of October which was to reduce the elementary footprint to five to six non- maggot elementary schools and reduce the middle school footprint to one to two non- magnet school uh removing Robindale Middle School uh the ESC building and then making a shift uh for the community offices. We also uh shared what we thought were constraints, limitations and some of that has come come out uh in subsequent meetings. What the options came because uh for example we weren't at that time taking into account mag elementary magnets as a reduction. Uh we were needing to close uh Robbinsdale Middle School, but that restricts options for movement uh in other so lots and lots of things that go into the ability to create certain options. We then presented in November, November 3rd specific facility recommendations and that was the recommendation to close Robinville Middle School, move to Sanberg, close Lake View Elementary School and repurpose it, close Sonos and consolidate with Neil, close the educational services center, move to Lake View, move to High View and RBA to Lake View and relocate the community education offices to the Crystal Learning Center. In addition, during that presentation on the 3, we gave specific rationale for each one of those moves. We had a slide on Robinville Middle School, slide on Lake View Elementary School on the South Central elementary schools where we talked about uh Sunny Hollow or RSI, we talked about Sonison, Neil, and Noble. We then gave final rationale on the 17th of November as to why we thought these were moves that were desirable, feasible, and sustainable based on all the constraints and limitations that we explained. On the 24th of November, we spent some time talking about the impact of centerbased uh program. We had questions from the board around what's the impact to our centerbased programming. So, you'll remember we spent time discussing that and getting into details around depending upon which elementary schools closed, how many adjustments for centerbased rooms we thought we were going to need to make. And then we also dove deeper into each one of the four elementary schools at the time, Lake View, Neil, Noble, and Sonos, so the board could see some specific information about each one of those schools. We talked about specifically the impacts of closing Sonos and Lake View together on the 24th. Sonos and Neil on the 24th, Sonos and Noble on the 24th, Neil and Noble on the 24th. And then we finished that uh conversation working through some trade-offs that we thought were needed to be considered such as the utilization of closing space or property without a future bond. How to program for all students, impact of transportation, the impact of students being moved, the ability to keep elementary buildings at a higher overall section, three sections, four sections. um and the efficiency and ability to create leveled services to support students in those. The board requested additional information about other facility options and so uh there were two specific questions that came from the board. One was what would a recommendation be if Lake View is no longer an option for closure? And the second specific question is what is the recommendation if all elementary schools except RSI become neighborhood schools? So we went back again, took a look at these two and our recommendations are as follows. If Lake View is out of consideration as a building, our recommendation would be that Noble closes and consolidates with Lake View and Neil. It closes a smaller school, keeps elementary, an elementary school on the east side of the district. However, it does remove the farthest southeast elementary school that we have in the district. These are not new. This we've talked about this in the past. Uh Sonos would still close and consolidate with Neil. So, no change to that recommendation. If we considered a recommendation uh without u pilgrim and without C as magnet schools. So this would be you keep RSI as a magnet school but you take the other two out. We would have eight elementary schools remaining across the district. If you think about it coming across the north that would be Meadow Lake and Northport. Across the center would be Zachary Lane, Forest and Lake View. The south would be Sunny Hollow, Bolson RC and Noble. This would mean that what would close is Fair Pilgrim Lane, Sonosen, and Neil. We believe the impact would be that all elementary students would be sent home to boundary schools. RSI students would remain at RSI, boundaries would be redrawn, students would attend their neighborhood school, and interdist intradist transfers would be limited and probably almost eliminated. Before I move on to the next one, are there questions on those two requests from the board? >> Yeah. Why would it be noble then versus other schools like you talked about Sunny Hollow a lot of maintenance that needs to it >> with a program that's bursting in >> we would close Noble because it's a smaller school and it would leave the bigger school in the area. Um and the the other reason is you still have the elementary schools on the east side of the district. So that was the rationale for Noble because you still have the Sonus and Neil combination taking place in the central south central part of the district. So essentially just the size of the school. >> I would say the size of that to do the the question was if Lake View if if Lake View is out of consideration and Sonos and Neil are still in consideration. Yes, Noble would be from our perspective the logical school to take if Lake View is going to stay. >> And that's just based on size of the school. It's and location. I mean, that's one of the reasons we have a map here is what what we needed to do is to make sure that as we were as we look at every option, right? Can we where can we make sure that we have room for students, we have room for center-based um programming um and also making sure that location-wise, proximitywise around the district, we also have room. Um the question that you asked about about RSI, the only Sunny Hollow with the program. >> Yep. Which houses RSI, the only um the only other elementary school that we have that's large enough to fit the RSI program in its current state. We could make different decisions about that and say we're only going to have a program of 500 students, but in its current state, the only other elementary school that's large enough for that is Meadow Lake. in Metal Lake is our northernest most um school which it just didn't makes does not make sense to us to take that off um off the the portfolio of buildings that we have right now. >> Well, uh one of the considerations that was mentioned initially was um the cost or the long-term maintenance of all the buildings and the cost issues. So considering those cost issues right now metal is in the best condition as compared to some of the others. So one of the things that I believe is that having RSI closing Sunny Hollow I think closing three schools as opposed to closing two and I don't think we really landed number lines. You've had a number of configurations, but closing uh three as opposed to two and closing Sunny Hollow and moving RSI to Lake makes sense to me. Um you know, I understand your your rationale, but um I have a different opinion of that. And so, um, you know, we certainly I'm raising it to knock and actually I have some other things that I've thought about as well. Uh, because I think that, um, that school in the better shape that it's in is large enough now with it's an elementary school, so it's elementary to elementary. And that makes sense to me because it will cut down the amount of physical reconfiguration that we must do to the school. And I think for the public's benefit, I don't know if principal Isel wants to maybe note this, uh, but the money that we take that talks about physical plants, all of the changes that will need to be made to all the various schools, all of that is in the capital fund, is it that that's a whole different ballgame from the operating fund. So, you know, I mean, those are two different things, two different pots of money. And uh, so I think it it makes sense to really kind of consider that. The other thing is that one of the things that I've heard is that the long-term change of move and then another move and then another move. That building is large enough to accommodate the mall if we don't all know where students are coming from that are all but we well I think we can know where they're where they're coming from to go to our side. They're coming from all over the district. That doesn't change. So they'll still be coming from all over the district. And of course we were also um you know guided that uh we wouldn't be talking about programming at this juncture before it was. So if we're not talking about programming now we're just talking about buildings and if we're going with the metric that was proposed to us which was to look at the most was cost effective with regard to the physical plants metal lake uh and because of its size and can fully accommodate RSI right now. Uh I do think that some attention to looking at uh policy with regard to the grow pattern of RSI makes sense. There's it's folly to not look at that and see what might we need to do to make sure that we don't outgrow it that we have uh you know room at at the building that building or any building. If we have room for adventure club, if we have room for all of the other kinds of things that aimed needs, that building is big enough to accommodate those kinds of things. And so um I oppose that and along those lines I further say I recognize that we've talked about four different schools now and we we've publicized for them appropriately. So um I just happen to have a handy dandy little paper and on it you know it says pretty much what I'm saying but uh and I'll share it with you because last time I had it and uh Superintendent McDonald, assistant superintendent was kind enough to share it with everybody. So um I just want to save time respond to that. So >> so uh with regard to the the the concept of let's start with size. >> So let's start with we'll work our way through. >> Uh let's start with size. So when we talk about size we're not just talking about the physical plant size. We're talking also about uh if you remember how many students get displaced is a consideration. So um and then also the location of buildings is a consideration. So from the from the from our perspective um it makes more sense for from our perspective on a location standpoint to um leave the Sonos and Neil non-magnet combination in the south allows you to take Noble. Noble um currently has an enrollment of 221 kids. Uh if you think about what would happen when you move RSI up to Metal Lake as an option, not only do you take the only building in the northeast or northwest corner of the district, uh if you look at your maps, but you also then displace the 48 kids, not just to one building, but to multiple buildings in order to make enough space for the RSI. Uh so for those reasons alone uh those would be why as an administration we wouldn't recommend that move because it would displace twice as many kids um to move to the north. It would remove a non-magnet on the northwest side of the district. When again the question was if lake view is not an option then when we look at location and size and impact of students Noble becomes the option because it's a smaller building physically it impacts less students when we uh have to move them out of that building uh because and and then we're moving up to Lake View and we're probably moving across to Neil for those kids. And then it allows us also with the Sonos and Neil combination to keep a non-magnet in that southern central part of the district as well. >> So um with that logic then um one of the things that has been shared with us is that um the moves that are being contemplated now will require perhaps one or two additional moves. I'll just say one more move. You know, we haven't really nailed that down, but it's going to require some more movement. Um, my thought is the fewer of those kinds of moves that we have to make, the better because we're going to make them. So, the same argument that you're making now for these children will have to move. So, if we're doing two or three times, uh, that's a value question. How many times? And if we're talking about parent stability, that becomes an issue. so people can have some predictability. And um with regard to I didn't take anything off the table. I just said in in in addition to that, take Sunny Hollow off is what I'm saying. That building isn't is I have my little sheet here and have all how much it's going to cost. It cost a lot of money. And so um it costs as much as many of the other ones. It rivals Sonos for repairs and it rivals Neil long-term over 10 years. They all three are pretty similarly situated when it comes to cost and that was the initial 90s that we were given is to consider how much of the building cost that's that's why RMSS RMS is on the chap you know it's being proposed you know uh because of cost so if that's a factor then that causes me to look then at lake and look at a building that's large enough to accommodate that whole population up having kids split. We all get to go. It's a one time move. Um and um so I think that that has merit. Uh and I didn't say that that not and I think I also am proposing Neil and Sunny Hollow. We've already talked or Neil and Sison. I think the administration is suggesting that we should move, you know, Sonis to Neil and they both are fairly comparable as well. I'm suggesting, you know, a meal closing and going to SAS. So, I mean, some people might say six of one, half of the other. I'm not that flip because I heard what people were saying tonight. But the fact of the matter is is that we're talking almost apples for apples and oranges for oranges because of the accommodation of those buildings, the square footage, and the cost, the timing of the cost. because I think in one you've got one to three years and the other one you've got three or four years but the costs are somewhat comparable as I call them. Um you know I think they might be a million dollars difference but for the attributes that I've heard and understand are at one of the schools and all of the amenities that it has. I think it makes merit um because I think that there was some thought about um SAS becoming the home for RSI. I I think a more permanent home for RSI and and I'm not saying that was ever proposed by the administration. It was not. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. But the point is is that um you know, I mean, I I think maybe some parents or whomever thinks that might be a good idea. I I didn't propose that, >> you know, but I I do think that um I'm advocating for the other way around from Neil to Son as opposed to Sison to Neil. and uh and then NOLO then because as you said to split NO between I certainly don't you know but if we have to have three we've got to have three and uh so that's the rationale that I have for that >> so I just want to comment and again board members I I hope you have the map in front of you that's why to make sure we have so >> so director Basset I want to be sure I understand what you're saying because what I heard you say is that the RSI move to metal lake that we we take that building of Sunny Hollow offline. However, what what your comments didn't discuss was the impact of the students at Metal Lake, the students that are currently there. So, in essence, we all of those students, we would need to ensure that there's enough room both for the students, special and special ed programming. The second thing that I just want to note as the board's looking at the boundaries if Noble is now offline because Lake View is not an option and what you just said director Bassid is that you would keep Son instead of Neil. If you look at that entire corner of the district, we have no neighborhood school. Then for next year, we have we go from Lake View over to Sonison then, but that entire corner of the boundary, we have no neighborhood school. >> So, that does give me pause. It really does. That does give me pause. Uh, but I think what we're talking about overall is shrinking. If it shrinks, it shrinks. So, I I I'm not suggesting that that is the best plan. Uh, I do think I do hear what you're saying about Neil and Johnson. I do hear that because um then you certainly can make a case if they're apples to apples for Susan coming to Neil. You certainly can make that that case. Um, you know, I um I'm not going to make it though. you know, I mean, somebody else has made it already, but that's not my preference. So, I'm just being transparent about that. I don't know that there's another alternative for Noble. If there if there was one, I' i'd love to hear what it is because I'd love to see Noble be there. >> Well, I think the other one is and and again, I know we started this process uh or I can give you the the rationale for it, but we're at a different place than we were originally in this process. And uh Dr. Dell, if you'll flip to the next slide, please. I I think the other option in front of the board is this option about if we don't have the magnet schools that pilgrim lane and see uh then we can take a look at doing the boundaries right now minimizing um buildings right now and determine the buildings that would go offline and where the neighborhood schools would be which match the geography of the district. um >> finish up and then >> okay then somebody else has a question they go they can go ahead >> yes so on slide uh 45 so I know in the in our previous discussion we were discussing the cutting the magnet transportation right and then one of the discussions also was if we had to save that it will mean that one of one other school will have to close. Right? So yes, we are already making tough decisions. Um now looking at slide 45. >> Did you say 45? >> 45. >> Mine goes up to 44. >> Yeah. Is this the slide that you're This is the slide. >> Yeah, this is the slide. >> That's it. Thank you. >> Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. So, looking at that, if the board decides to go with this option, will that mean we can save magnet transportation or >> correct? >> Maybe magnets may not even be >> part part of the program. Correct. >> So then most of our schools become neighborhood schools. >> Correct. >> And then magnets is taken offline >> except for >> Can I ask just a quick clarifying question? Does that mean also the middle school um magnet program for Bayer as well? >> So we're going to talk about that in a minute. >> Okay. Just because this slide doesn't address it. That's the reason I ask >> and and RSI would be still getting magnet school transportation. Correct. >> So that would not be a sac that much. >> Okay, let's go on. >> So uh feeding right into that question, uh the school board also asked additional information about non-f facility budget adjustments. Uh right, so if non-magnet transportation, what are the reductions can we get to reach the 8 million? and then specific information about elementary IB programming. >> You want to do this one or >> keep going? >> I just thought it would be good if you just >> Oh, I'll just keep going. >> All right. So, uh this is not a new slide. It was originally presented on November 3rd, but right now we're talking about that line item of magnet transportation for Spanish immersion for EMS. Right. So this is the middle school and we believe that we have found a way to implement that with the middle school change that we've suggested so far. Um, we've been working with our uh teaching and learning department and if we offer middle school Spanish programming at both PMS and SMS, we can create efficiencies in the scheduling as we redo the scheduling and we won't need magnet transportation because regardless of which middle school the kids go to, they could still get those courses in Spanish that they currently get at Plymouth Middle School. So, we believe we have a solution for this one without really doing anything except for offering the same courses in Spanish at both middle schools next year, Plymouth Middle School and Sanberg Middle School. >> I'll dive in. And that's really a long-term board members, that's really one of the long-term um absolute musts that we have to do in this school district is we have so much inconsistency across same level schools and courses and what's being taught that that's one of the things we absolutely have to do. So this would be an opportunity to really begin that process, ensure that kids at both buildings have the same opportunities. So that would be the same Spanish science and social studies in Spanish. >> That's amazing. >> That would be the plan. >> So what? Let's do that. >> That's that is our plan. That's a big >> So then the next one we open up to Ma the Magna Transportation Elementary. Right. So this is we've been leaving up to that board decision. So this has been kind of back to a conver a previous conversation even tonight, right? is there are um there are additional building closures that we can make, right? So, we can make that elementary reset option. We discontinue elementary magnets except for our side. We've talked about this a couple minutes ago. We send all the elementary students to their home. We close Fair Pilgrim Lane, Sonos and Neil. We draw new boundaries. Interd district transfers significantly get limited or eliminated. That's just elementary programming. What that would be another option, Fair Crystal option. You remove Fair Crystal programming. So Fair Crystal, the building would no longer be a middle school magnet. Those students would move to their boundary school of Samberg and Plymouth. It would get repurposed as an elementary school. The elementary school that it get repurposed as is Fair Pilgrim Lane. So essentially what happens in this option is you close the Fair Pilgrim Lane building. You move it into the Crystal building. It functions now as an elementary magnet, not as a middle school magnet. Those middle school kids get boundary to either Plymouth or to Sber. It would also close Sonis and Neil and Noble. It would move students to Zachary Lane, Forest, Fair Crystal, and Lake. It leaves no south non-magnet schools essentially by doing this. >> Wait, I was with you until you said closing Sonic and Neil. Fair crystal closes as a middle. Fair pilgrim moves there. >> Correct. >> But no longer Sonos is moving to Neil. I thought Son would still move to Neil. >> The you're you're you're doing the Sonos Neil Noble closure because what you're doing in this one is you are pushing Sonos and Neil up. you're pushing Noble up and over. So, what you're gaining is you're gaining an uh you're gaining the elementaries offline, additional elementarymentaries offline, but you're keeping fair crystal. >> Well, it's closing four schools, isn't it? Four elementaryaries now. >> So, fair. Can we rewind just a little bit? >> Okay. I was totally with you. number one. So for the option of number one, both of these options look to closing >> I know how I confused you. I know exactly how I confused you. >> Okay, >> let me back up. >> Thank you. I was hoping you would >> just stared at the uh this slide too long. I'm >> going to back up. Start over. Time out. Rewind. the Fair Crystal option. So the in in either of one or two below, Fair Crystal programming comes offline. The middle school kids move to the middle schools. When you do that, you really have two options. Then on the south side, you can take Fair Pilgrim Lane and shift it over to Crystal >> closes Pilgrim Lane, moves to Crystal. The other option would be instead of making that move, you close Sonos, Neil, and Noble, right? And you move students to Zachary Lane, to Forest, to Fair Crystal, and to Lake View. So, you still use the Fair Crystal building as part of the solution. It's an elementary school. Pilgrim Lane stays Pilgrim Lane. So, my apologies for confusing you. Lane is an elementary school or neighbor school. >> So we either move one set of kids from one school to another in number one or in number two we have fruit basket upset. >> You do. >> Oh. So in the second one, can you just go through it one more time? So if Fair Crystal wouldn't be a middle school. >> Yep. So if you look at your map, probably the easiest way is to look at your map on that one, right? So, um, for number two up there, we're going to close Sonison, right? So, visualize kids from Sonison going up to Zachary Lane, going up to Forest, and potentially some going to Fair Crystal. >> Then you move over a little bit, you're going to close Neil. >> Those kids go up potentially to Forest, up to Most of them are going to go to Fair Crystal, more than likely. Some might go um into some other schools depending upon where they live. Then you're gonna move over to Noble. You're close to Noble. Noble's going to go up to Lake View and potentially over to Fair Crystal depending upon how much space in the end and where boundaries are for that. So in that number two, you're closing Sonos, Neil, and Noble across the bottom and then you are shifting those kids up across Zachary Lane Forest Fair Crystal Building in Lake View. That's why it says in parenthesis you end up then if you look at the map you end up with no non-magnet schools across the bottom southern part of the district. >> May I just ask one? So to clarify the difference between the two is in the first one you're getting rid though of of C and and Fair Pilgrim Lane as as um as magnets >> on the elementary reset. >> On the elementary reset on the first one they will no longer be magnets. The second one they would continue to be magnets but Fair Crystal would as a middle school would no longer be magnet but it would be an elementary. Correct. >> Got it. Thank you. But the same three schools would close in either scenario. >> Correct. >> I one assume >> the other school is closed. >> Just it gets an additional elementary school. >> Dr. Bassie, did you have your finger up? >> I do. So then uh on that fair crystal option item two if you're closing Sonic and Neil and then Fair Crystal becomes an elementary magnet is what you're saying. >> No not in that option. >> No that's >> it's just in the in the >> in the number one >> item two well item number two. Number two is what I was speaking of. So that's okay then you know it might be okay that's not >> in what scenario does fair crystal be become an elementary bank >> in I one >> I1 [Music] fairness to fair crystal and it becomes an elementary magnet you know what can the same thing what can be an How many remaining is I2? >> Because the programming currently of Sona, Neil, and Noble are not magnet program. The programming currently of Fair Pilgrim is magnet programming. >> I understand that. But if we're doing a reset and we're looking for the most that we can do and if we can provide that and have multiple closures based on how much money we have to save and recoup then two I2 makes more sense if we can all even becomes a magnet because nothing's going to happen overnight. We haven't even this board had even talked about what programs we you know think are important to have. So that we haven't even had that conversation. So having the conversation and talking about it to to magnetize it. What would it take over time? In none of these scenarios is that going to happen magically all of a sudden. I mean and I'm not saying that I'm an advocate for that scenario, but that's what comes to my mind is that it's going to take time no matter what you do. Oh, is it >> just for clarification and and maybe it's verbiage uh director Basset, but when you're looking at I22 and to say it stays or all becomes a magnet, now it becomes a lottery. Now it becomes additional magnet transportation. Now it becomes additional costs than just a neighborhood elementary school. It's different from Fair Pilgrim just going there because that already is you ex you've actually going to expand if you're calling it a magnet as opposed to we're just doing the programming of a magnet. It changes how we >> well the cost of the program and the lottery and all of the things that go with that. >> I'm glad you said that because the reality is that if we have to shift our mind away from this magnet notion uh and we just say that we live in this for a district that just got through saying we want to be the arts innovation place. So, it's not a far leap to decide if we want to have the programming in that facility be one that's geared toward that and it's not a lottery. It's not any of those things. It's just a program that fully embraces those concepts. So, I mean that's possible and uh to avoid all this boundary stuff we're talking about because it's just the boundary schools that are in those areas that could go to that school and uh it looks to me like we could achieve more. >> Actually, if you look at both I I one and two I believe we have the same number of building closures. They both in in II1 it's Pilgrim Lane, Sonis, Noble, RMS, and Crystal as middle schools. In II, it's Sonic, Neil, Noble, RMS, and Crystal as middle school. >> But that's I I one I think two actually name those all out. I was clear >> and and again this was this this these options are coming forward because of the additional request for 1.7 million if the magnet transportation is taken off. So it's assuming the other decisions have happened >> super >> it's director and then director. >> Yeah. So this is really hard when we're not supposed to be talking about programming but then we talk about RS RSI and so then what does that mean then for C and >> it depends what what what does what mean for C >> as we get then because we talked about shifting around Pilgrim Lane right and then taking away its feeder school. >> Yep. In this in this in in Iii1 it would maintain C as a magnet school with transportation. >> Correct? >> Because that's what we're trying to solve for. The question the board the question the board asked us is what could we do if that magnet transportation is taken off the table. So we would maintain magnet transportation for Fair Pilgrim for RSI and for C. And so then we would just get rid of then that middle school component for fair. Correct. And is there any talk about how with because with RSI you figured out, oh we could do this at the two middle schools we have. Has there been any discussion about how you can reproduce some of that then at our two remaining middle schools for fair or for that maintenance? Yeah, we have it. That's the programming piece that you know come come January as we talk about the if the direction of the board is to really look at that arts and innovation that's where we continue to look at middle level programming to see again where's some of that consistency where are those opportunities for students to have um different experiences including in the arts and perhaps in other career pathway kinds of things. So no we literally haven't had time to talk about what that programming looks like. However, uh we are working um the teaching and learning team um is working with middle school principles on looking at their schedule and how do we provide opportunities for students. And so we possibly have an answer to that by the 15th. >> No, not that depth of courses and and what that would mean. I I can't imagine we can do that. >> Okay. And so then I'm also wondering too like why so RSI stands out? Why not C? Why not Fair Pilgrim? Why not IB? I think one of the the reasons um um IB is not a magnet school, right? It's a program. We're going to talk about IB in a minute. Um, I think from the beginning the the distinction between RSI and our other magnet programs is that with RSI with the Spanish language uh piece, staff really have specialized training and skills. Not that they don't in all of our magnet schools. Not that our staff don't have um training and skills in all areas, but if the goal is to have an arts and innovation district or whatever we end up calling it, then it would be training that and supports and resources that we'd be able to provide um for all staff. But the RSI piece is unique in it because that's not training all staff can do. It's a lensure requirement. Thank you. I think you had another question. You had another question that didn't get >> Yeah, I guess I mean, yeah, it just still really confuses me. I I get the language component of it and that being, you know, like a lensure, but I still just, you know, like the reason why I bring up IB, I still just really feel like we do our due diligence as a district to maintain some of those programming things. um just like you know how it was really strong in elementary and then as you moved on to middle school and high school things kind of waned away. I'm hearing kind of the same thing about our other magnets like we have been doing our due diligence around those magnet programs cuz they could be a lot more successful than what they are right now. And I think, you know, those are things too that parents want and they look for some parents and, you know, some parents look for some of the things that we have going on in our neighborhood schools. And so I I don't know this just, you know, like I I said at the last meeting, it's really hard when you're sitting there and you're taking away the heart of what makes Robinsdale Robbinsdale with some of the special programming that we have here. Um, even with this move that you're talking about now, like getting rid of the middle school, I feel like, you know, that's our our problem with not following through on what we were committed to follow through on. And how do how do we get to a place where we don't continue to create these programs for students, get students and parents so invested in them, and then we don't put the investment in them, and then they die because of us, not because of the parents and the students. Yeah, >> Director Long, I I again we're in this place of time. Again, not blame shame falter excuses for how we got here, but we have to get out of it. And the heart of Robbinsdale Area schools is excellent neighborhood schools as we've heard for the last couple of weeks. It's excellent magnet schools as we've heard for the last couple of weeks. So, the heart of who we are as a school district is all of that. And we've got to figure out how do we get a way to be more fiscally sustainable and repair the heart of what's lost and rebuilt. Yeah. And I'm not talking about the heart. I'm talking about what makes it it unique. The uniqueness of it and these unique programs that make it unique. That's what I'm talking about. Also, you know, I had asked that um administration be traded out for magnet transportation. And I know like this slide was just put up right before we started this conversation. So I haven't had a chance to look through all of it since it was just posted right before we started this conversation. But I hope that there's going to be some dramatic cuts to administration too. Well, Director Long, in the email that I sent on Friday, I addressed the last two years and the amount of administrative reductions that were made and also said that one of the line items that we've shown multiple times, there's a $500 reduction that target reduction for non instructional staff. I don't know that that would be all administrators or not. Um, and again, this continued talk about number of administrators, money for administrators isn't helpful right now. Um, I think one of the things I'd ask the board as a whole is the strong leadership that's needed to turn this around right now. It's not about numbers of administrators. It's about what's the work that has to get done and who's doing that work. I don't know that it served this district well to have six superintendents in 10 years. I don't know that it served this district well to have at least six CFOs in 10 years. So, I'm trying to build a team um that can turn this district and take the best of who we are and make it even better. Um so, there will be administrative cuts. I cannot get to 1.7 uh million dollars of administrative cuts and I would hope that that isn't the direction this board wants us to go. Well, there's already been over four million administrative cuts in the last two years. Is that correct? >> Which were brought back. >> Yep. >> That's not true. >> I believe in the email that I sent on Friday. That's all outlined along with the public presentations um that were also shared >> also on the website. So, people see >> it's on the website so people can see it. Was brought back. Okay. Um I have director and then me and then director and then >> yeah so I'm not trying to move the whole board along with me but I do have some precise questions on one if we stick to this slide and one of those choices become the will of the board will that have any impact on our current timelines? as far as December 15th and whatnot. >> Yep. >> So, any additional buildings that are not currently on the posting for the 15th, you'd have to follow the same process again, right? So, um you'd have to whatever building is not currently on the list, someone on the board would have to make a motion to put that on a list. the board would have to vote and say we want this building up for consideration. Those same timelines that we went through to get us to the 15th next week then go into play for whatever other building that is. So we would go through two cycles of uh posting in the newspaper our seven days a hearing and then the board could vote after that process on that additional building. So from a timeline standpoint, if something was uh if something was decided additional tonight, you could easily get a decision. You'd have enough time before the SOD plan has to be submitted in order to make the final decision. That that timeline would fit. >> Will that alter the December 5th process? 15. >> It does not need to alter that. You could be running processes simultaneously. >> You could still do your December 15th process and have this other one as your next process. >> We said that likely if that were the case, director, likely January 5th, we could hold the additional hearing. So we'd still do the hearing on the 15th, act on what's currently not in this but the the other part of this and then take up the hearing on the 5th for this additional closure before decid. >> And then my last follow-up question on that is I know in previous discussions we've talked about potential cuts again for school buildings in the next year or two or three. Will this decision, these options limit any of those potential cuts? >> I'm going to maybe address something that has to do with future decisions, but it's not director going. I'm going to we'll pause to let others consider if that's the case. I just wanted to call out and this seems like maybe an appropriate time when looking at the 2I2 scenario, it still leaves C as a magnet. And should the district move away from magnets altogether, we're now going to do boundaries in that area twice because we would reboundry Sonnis and Neil Noble like those students to go in different directions and C would be sitting kind of right in the middle of that with no boundary. And so then if that became a neighborhood school, back to the transition of students, just a consideration of how a decision today, if you will, or this month can impact future decisions and how we could be double doing the work. I just wanted to call that out. >> Well, will that decision be different if we were going with option one? >> Uh, if I would, it would not. No, you would reboundry everyone with with with the individual eye with the double eye and if it was Pilgrim Lane to Crystal, it's magnet to magnet. Those kids don't have boundaries. So, it doesn't impact that one either. The only one it would be a double a double dip would be the 2I2 option or potential double dip I should say. And then to to follow up on the rest of that question is yes, there still could be potential double moves for students depending on what how much of a reduction we need next year or the following year, what we would do, the decision the board would make on elementary magnet programming at that time. So there's no option where we can guarantee that there aren't going to be some doubling. But I'm hoping since we are going if we do go with three cuts versus two that hopefully will limit the impact of how much we will have to cut. Yeah. Correct. >> Yeah. I think the question is still going to be I think the question for the board to grapple with because magnet transportation is still going to be expensive and I I think it's still going to be the question that the board's going to need to discuss in terms of what do we do with magnet programming next year into the future or not to see where we are as financially. >> Thank you. Okay, my turn. I definitely want to keep magnet transportation. To me, it's it's a safety issue. It's a whole bunch of other things, but mainly it's safety. We need to keep the magnet transportation. And if that means closing another school, I'm I'm in. But I do I want to uh keep as much of the student body intact as possible and disrupt it as little as possible. And so personally I would say close Fair Crystal, move Fair Pilgrim there and then do the Sonis and Neil the noble lake view and give the magnet transportation. give us time to think through the maintenance another year or two to figure out ought to be all district. That is what I would support. Um, director Hill. Yeah, I I agree with what you're saying and I also think, you know, we we did say that we weren't going to do anything with the elementary magnets this this year and I'd really like to stick with that if we can. Um, I know that obviously parameters change and there's a lot of things, but if we can stick with that, I think that, you know, I'd like to have integrity with that statement if we can. Um, the other thing though, I'd like to go back to the administration and and the um the need to have administrators. I mean, I I I hear what you're saying and you Caroline um Director Long and that yes, you don't want to be topheavy. you don't want to have too many people. But at this point, we've had years and years of cuts. And I think it's really unfair to the work that um the staff do sitting at this table to to constantly be um denigrating them um by by bringing that up in this public forum. I think they've done a lot of of cuts. They're they're adding more cuts. You do need administrators. I think any teacher in here because we have teachers sitting here in the room will tell you they need their principal. They need their building secretary. They need the support staff that are in their buildings and they need their uh curriculum staff and their teaching and learning folks to to bring the curriculum to the table. I mean, they need the supports that are there. Now, could we be overstaffed in certain areas? Possibly. and I know they're looking into it and they're they're offering to cut a half a million dollars worth of staff again um after two years of significant cuts. And I think we um we need to be good fiscal stewards, but we also need to have the right supports in place or when the teacher calls for help in the classroom, there's nobody to come. Right? when the communication needs to go out or we need to get marketing to get kindergarteners to come to that kindergarten night, there's nobody there to tell people about the kindergarten night, right? We have to make sure those things are in place, too. So, I think it's a balance and we need to be fair. So, I just want to keep that in mind and put that out there that we need those administrators, too. So, I think we should keep that in mind and be thoughtful in how we're speaking about administrators who are sitting at our table and doing all this work for us. Director Basset and then director Longman. >> I uh I agree with Director Hillbrand with regard to the promise we made about kind of leaving um our meas stack, you know, kind of in place for for the next year or two. I think we made that promise to be really stigmat clarified because um one you talked about I think you said what one of the implicate all the implications for 21 and for 22 if they could be spelled out a little bit more clearly that would be helpful because I I I you know I mean I when you say it I hear what you're saying but I don't really quite understand it if if it doesn't affect these what's left what's left intact, you know, so it's clear and we understand what what we're saying here before we have to vote on it. >> Yeah. >> You know, and uh I can't help but wonder if we do all of that and deal. We either do one or two. I mean, I don't two or I or I1 I >> look at it first and see what if that can you can just help that be a little >> in writing so I can look at it >> we can for sure do that is there anything more that would be helpful tonight to talk through with it >> oh I I do have well not necessarily on that one because I need to look at it but but I am wondering because I have actually said I do think that there's some merit in in discussing finding out more about two days busing. Um, you know, I I do think that we need to figure out some of that because even if we do all of this and it gets better, it's still going to be costly and but if it could be a less costly for families, great because we're doing some of these other things. But I do think that in the current state we're in looking at some kind of febased system so that we have some predictability about operating it. So it's not on again off again on again off again. We're going to do it. We're going to do whatever we can do to reduce the cost you know our footprint save money and and whatever we could do if we can have a sliding fee scale that that accommodates u you know free and reduced and has a nominal fee. I know how many districts have done it. >> I'll judge you too long. >> Yeah. So, I just want to put out there that oftent times teachers get more and more things put on their plate all the time and we rely on other teachers to help us get through our daily work that we have to do with all the magnitudes of things that we have to put on our plates. Larger class sizes, more requirements that we have to do. Um, nobody ever sits up there and talks about because of the more work that teachers have to do that we definitely need more pay. Nobody ever talks about how to take all those things off of the teachers plate. So, whenever you villainize me, every time I try to bring up admin as a suggestion, I'm going off of the slides that were presented here to me. I'm using facts that were presented here to me. That's a problem. Um, I'll do can CFO answer director Basset's question about the transportation? >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh, director Basset and I and I know this was I believe it was part of Superintendent Stalo's communication as far as the fee based to cover the 1.7 million. That that's not that is not a feasible viable solution. However, can the district moving forward look at if we have magnet transportation? Like again, we're not looking to reduce. It's saying as we move forward, can it be something to help supplement the budget? Sure, we can absolutely look at that. It just can't be used to try to achieve the 1.7. >> There's no math that can help. >> There is no math that can make that happen. No, that that's a substantial burden that is not quite honest. It wouldn't even be viable. And that's not what I missed. >> Okay. >> So, shall we finish the deck and then see if we have some action items? >> Dr. Bass, you have one of the um >> that's coming. >> Pardon me. >> Okay. The next topic uh on the list is the international bacteria program. There were some questions around that and so just to give an idea of elementary IB programming. Uh we did a little um return on investment uh because the question was can we expand it? What's its cost? Right now just for the elementary it costs about $184,000 a year to run just the elementary program. Um and quite frankly compared to the other magnet or specialized schools it significantly has the lowest academic performance. Um only 191 out of the 391 students boundary to Lake View choose it that 200 that total enrollments 251. In addition, the K12 approximate an annual cost, so elementary, middle, and high school, um is 791,000. Um and that has resulted in two IB diplomas last year. So, uh additionally, expansion would require additional costs for accreditation because every school needs to be credited. Um there's annual fees, there's staff, there's additional staff that need to be added in low language, and then there's IV coordination that's required. Um and in addition, in talking with the high school staff, while the IB program operates, it also has limited our ability to offer AP courses um at the high school along with the IB program. So from from the administrative perspective on a return on investment um we we maintain that uh a move for us right now is to uh do a reduction in what we're spending in international balorate programming. Um this is the IB program, the PYP, so the elementary um and the middle school program. We would run the uh Coug program for 26 27 because we have kids in that program and afford them the opportunity to finish it. and your >> Did you just have two IB diplomas in 2025? >> Two >> in the whole district. >> That's what I was told by the administration. >> And again, you know, I want I want to I want to publicly state just like I am for every single one of our schools and programs, it's a great program. It's a great program and it's expensive and we're in statutory operating. So again, the question that we when we studied um we went through the study last year and decided not to make this as one of the reductions, one of the things we looked at is what could we do in lie of if not IB, what would that look like? And I know at Lake View, one of the conversations just because of the the training that staff have had around project-based learning and integration of curriculum, you know, that work and again leads us toward where potentially we are going as a district um in terms of district-wide arts and innovation kinds of things. Um at the high school, we looked at last year what additional AP classes could be offered. So again, I don't want the board and I don't want our staff and our students and families and community to be here. We don't believe this is a great program. Everything we're doing is really strong and we're in statuto operating debt. And I think that piece around the academic achievement piece is something that we have to look at, right? As we look at the programming that we do, we want to ensure that obviously it's the student experience and what is it doing to enhance learning as measured by reading judge. So can we go back and explore then AP because AP had cost to it. Um, and when we had that discussion about AP, those costs come to the family then to pay for that. And that's not always something that is affordable to those families. So, are you thinking that then Cooper would then go to AP classes instead of having IB classes at all, which the district takes the cost for that, the A IB, but the families have to take the cost for the that AP part? >> Is the families still paying for that? >> The test, right? I >> I thought that previous year we decided that didn't cost on it. I think I think I'll get back. >> I I don't know about I don't know about the cost, but Director Long, yes. If it it would be our intent again looking at our two high schools, just like we talked earlier about our middle schools is what can we do to align courses that students have um similar opportunities. So yes, if I is not there, then we would say how do we ensure rigorous opportunities for students? how do we ensure um some of those experiences that they have and it won't be the same obviously um but that's what we would work toward building with our principles because for some families economically that's going to be a stretch for them and I would say most families it will be I know that last time we had that discussion we had a board director who expressed how that would be a struggle for her family even with whatever it is they have and those can be future that's real, you know, thank you for bringing that up and I I think that those are going to be future conversations to say, okay, as we get out of statuto operating debt and two of them are fiscally sound place and are making some of these decisions, what are some of the other decisions um the board ultimately can make to support our families through? So, could we possibly have some information you said you would? something about that and how we could offset that possibly in the future for families. >> The cost >> of testing. >> Yep. Of AP if that's the direction that we go. >> Is that something right now that I I just again certainly it will be. I just when you when the board asks questions here, I want to be sure that it's information to make a decision Monday night, next Monday night, cuz I know that that's what we're going to be doing. Um, >> so, Director Long, you need you need you need information about how much it costs to take AP test, how much an AP test is. Not necessarily that, but what might be a future plan for us to offset some of that cost for our students? Because with IB, there is a cost to that. And that's why it's a better choice for families of color and also those socioeconomic families. >> Just a couple things. Okay. >> The Monday night is about facilities, not about IB programming. So that that wouldn't be >> I think something you'd need for >> registration getting rid of Ivy for for I for registration. >> Do we need to make some of those decisions by the 15th or are we >> going to have to provide some >> Well, that's I I guess coming into tonight if you go back one slide, please. I I think so. Ideally, we have direction tonight to see what additional information board members need um in order for you to feel confident. We'd even like to have an idea of where are you with some of these things right now. I know the vote isn't happening, but we just want to be sure we're providing you what you need. We're sure we're going to need the school closures. The reason the other nonchool decisions are important is because we are also in the process of working with open enrolled families on transportation. And if we're going to change that, that's communication that we'd rather get through with them later. The same thing with registration for high school classes. If there's going to be classes that we don't offer, we need to do that sooner rather than later. Those were some of the things, Bob, that I was thinking about. >> Yeah. I I just a couple things on it. One is just overarching when we look at the IB programming and we're looking at statutory offering that that that IB program is costing us $800,000 almost $800,000 a year. That's that is a significant cost for a program that is landing us two IB diplomas. um in 25 2025. Um to answer the question, the uh both IB because I've got the team texting me now. Both the IB and the AP exams have a cost to them. It's not one or the other. They both have payment plans and waivers. >> The IB exam costs $55 a piece. The AP exam costs $70 a piece. There are also other ways to get college credit. There's college in the schools. There's there's PSO. There there are other it's not binary. It's not just those two. >> Correct. And we would be exploring all of those options that I guess the point really was we would need to look at other things. Make sure that students that are at Cooper are having the same type of experience options as students at Armstrong. >> Can you tell me those costs again, please? uh $55 for the IB exam and $70 for the AP exam. >> And you said there are waiverss >> educational. >> Okay. >> I it's it's me and >> that's what I was going to say. I was just going to point out because when we um toured Armstrong there we saw college in the schools class >> um and some other things. So there's um MCTE courses that are credit bearing and so there are plenty of other ways to get college credits without having to pay for exams that are free in class. I'm going to make a motion that we take Magnus School transportation off the table and we close an additional school. Moved and seconded. I didn't say which school, but I said take Magnus School transportation off, close an additional school. Okay, >> second. >> And it's been second. Thank you. I don't see any hands up. I think people might be ready to vote. Okay. All in favor of taking I don't see your hand up. All in favor of taking making school transportation off the table and closing an additional school, please say I. >> I. >> Oppose say nay. >> No. >> Okay. We have a direction. Can we discuss option of closing? Which school? Additional. And I would like to move close fair crystal. >> Would you want to add something? >> Can you go back to that slide? I was gonna say one. Do you want me to go back to the slide and then just so we're tracking? Make sure I got this right. Sorry. >> You you would be closing if that's what you're doing. You'd be closing Fair Pilgrim Lane. >> Oh, okay. >> And you repurposing Fair. Okay. Thank you. to clear it up. I'm going to move that we and this isn't the final closure thing. This is the move so that we can have the public hearing. Um close Fair Pilgrim and repurpose Fair Crystal as with the students as an elementary with the students from Fair C Fair Fair. Was that clear enough? >> Yeah. >> So, option two. >> Yep. I I two. >> No. I I one >> I I one. >> Aren't one and two part of the same proposal? >> You either do I I one or you I think get upset. >> It's one proposal. >> No, it's No, there's three. >> But the first one is the same thing. It's all part of the same thing. So that's why I'm confused about the second one. >> Um can I >> All right. Look just at I I and only at number one. That's all we need in order to make up the 1.7 million >> is the close. >> You you've got the other buildings. You've got the other decisions before the 1.7. >> We're leaving, right? >> Okay. This is in transportation. >> This is a new trans. This is just in l of transportation. We still have the need. We still have the needle and the normal lake still. This is to get up to the 1.7. If we close Fair Pilgrim, move it to Fair Crystal. Kids from Fair Crystal go to their home schools. >> We eliminate So that eliminates that eliminates middle school magnet transportation >> or that restores it? No, it eliminates because they're going to go to their home schools. >> And it keeps intact magnet elementary transportation closes fair pilgrim repurposes fair crystal to be clear the building keeps >> Did I get a second on that? >> I will. >> Thank you. You're too long. We still don't have the information on how that's going to feed into the middle school. Um, >> so the programming that says you figured out how to feed RSI into the two middle schools. So that was something that when I asked that earlier, you said it would take time to figure out how to feed that into the two middle schools. >> Yeah, we we don't have a plan right now to feed the middle school magnet program into the other school other two magnets. The option we presented was to eliminate the middle school magnet programming. Those students would go to the other two middle schools and would be programmed as regular middle schools. At this time, it's going to take significant work to figure out how we would bring anything close to resembling middle school magnet programming that the kids currently have. I wouldn't want to even suggest that we would do that. as an entirely different situation than adding three classes taught in Spanish at a middle school. >> And so I'm not about that kind of information about how that would feed into those other schools. This keeps intact the not touching the elementary magnets because that was it didn't say something about middle school magnets. >> Okay. I don't see any other hands. Do you feel ready to vote? >> Yes. Yes. project. >> Well, I you know, I mean, I thought I was going to get that docu that information clarified a bit more so I actually know what we're talking. So, so let me review it and see if this helps. just just because again if the board if the board is considering the closure of another school, we do have a timeline that we need to get it into the paper this week in order to have that hearing by January 5th in order to to meet the deadlines. So again, you're not voting to close it. You're voting for it to be going through the same process. So just just to review, I'm happy to do that in both I I So let's go down to I I and I will never use Roman numerals like this again in my life. I have no idea why we did. I don't think we ever have and I'll never do it again. I promise. So I I Fair Crystal, we are removing the the middle school of Fair Crystal. That programming students at Fair Crystal will go to Samberg Middle School and Plymouth Middle School. Um that building will be repurposed for Fair Pilgrim Lane programming and Fair Pilgrim Lane is closed. along with either Sonis, Neil, Lake View, Noble, the two of those that we also have to deal with >> in I1. No, >> I >> forget about I1 and I I2. >> Okay. >> Okay. We are this this solves for maintaining elementary magnet programming >> but I'm saying to you so what you just said is where on that on that >> is is I I >> number one and that's it. Yes. >> And you went on further to say, but it also does this, that, and the other. >> Oh, this is >> Yep. Can I have the Yep. So, so this is one decision point. And then going back to the decision point around there are still elementaryaries. We've got four elementaryaries that we've been talking about for weeks. Noble, Lake View, Neil and Son. Two of those still need to be closed. >> So, so, so then just more discussion. So, uh, what happens with Sunny Hollow? >> It stays as is. There's no recommendation right now that Sunny Hollow we do anything with that. RSI programming stays there um, at least for another year as we continue the conversation about both facilities and programming. So it's possible we might come to a place where we say we're going to close um that building Sunny Hollow and re and place uh Sun I mean the RSI somewhere else. >> Correct. So that could happen later. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> I don't see any more hands. I'm going to clarify the motion before we vote. >> Just want to read what that actual language is to support that. Read the I I >> I one. >> Okay. So the motion is to remove Fair Crystal Pro programming, repurpose it as an elementary school, sending the Fair Crystal students to Sanberg Middle and Plymouth Middle by Boundary and close Fair Pilgrim Lane, moving that intact to Fair Crystal. That was is the motion. And we did get a second. And so all in favor, please say I. >> I. >> Oppose, say no. >> No. >> That's the plan. Let's get it published and have and get the hearing process in order. >> Well, we'll have the hearing and we get another chance to vote. >> Okay. Okay. There's some direction. Good. Moving on. >> Is the process and procedure for example? >> Um, actually, I want a little bit more direction if that's all right. Board members. We're feeling directed. >> I I'm I'm glad. So, I want to go to the top school closure recommendation. Um back to the the four buildings. Is there any like discuss to see where you are with that >> prior to the public hearing? Um just is there are there any other questions? We were asked to bring forward we we were asked about the recommendation if Lake View Elementary is out of consideration. So we brought you that. Is there any questions about that at all? >> Okay. And then we also had the the second question was just what's recommendation without those? My understanding is based on this conversation that's done. Okay. Um so magnet transportation then looks like we are taken care of the magnet transportation PMS we've taken care of through the programming Minneapolis open enrollment transportation is there a recommendation to get that's the recommendation is to get rid of that >> I'll second it Dr. Sorry, going back. So, where it would this move to or would this not move? Now, >> this building, >> we would we won't make that decision until until we know which buildings are closed. And once we know which buildings are closed, then we'll assess the situation um to see what makes the most sense. Again, our original thought was uh the High View and um Robinale Virtual Academy and the ESC relocate. So again, we won't know that until board makes decisions. So I didn't see anything addressing like possibly repurposing RMS. That was something that was brought up at our last meeting by two board members. Um so so where we are right now where we aren't yet with the is talking about any kind of selling of land or repurposing or we are in this first stage again going back to the slide that you've seen a number of times but just for clarity sake this is where we are. We've got to just re reduce our footprint through initial building closures, consolidations, and reconfigurations for the S so plan. That's the only thing right now we're talking about. Once we level set this in January, we start talking vision. We start talking what does it look like moving forward and then that helps with the repurposing or the selling of land. And in that is also the question that board members have asked about our leased properties. And I think that's where we can also start looking at where is some of that programming. What's that look like? What are our options? >> Thank you. But we are a little off topic because there's a motion on the floor. >> Oh, I'm so sorry. We're to eliminate the in out of district. >> Yeah, I I had had my hand up before, Rita. You just didn't see my hand when she was flipping through asking if there were any questions about the building. So you just were >> Yes. And you saw my hand. So >> after I understand I understand how we got there. I just want to get us back to where we were supposed to. >> So we're looking. >> So right now there's a motion on the floor and a second to elimin. >> Okay. Minneapolis open enrollment transportation $363,000. That is the motion on the board on the floor to eliminate that cost. I don't I don't see any hands up, but I'm hearing a from B. So, do you want to say anything? >> Well, I don't support it. >> I don't feel like >> Okay. >> I just want to point out that when we did eliminate transportation from the zip codes that we did, we actually increased enrollment from those zip codes. We didn't actually lose any enrollment. I don't know why that happened, but the point is that it didn't have a a significant negative impact. In fact, it had a positive impact. So, who knows? Okay. Thank you. All right. Yes. And I guess for my thing, you know, that there used to be a program that paid for that transportation and that program has since went away along with those funds years ago. Lots of other districts are no longer doing those things. Um, so I mean this is one thing even though I don't like it. I do see how other districts are no longer funding this either out of their own money. >> Thank you. >> All right. I don't see any other hands. Uh, so we're going to vote. >> Uh, we're going to vote to eliminate the the Minneapolis open enrollment transportation. All in favor, please say I. >> I. Oppose say no. >> Unanimous. Okay. Do we have a direction? Excellent. All right. >> Yes. >> I mean, I'm, you know, I would like to know what kind are the costs. You You asked what information we need. I want to know what the cost is for $300. >> I think I think you got to wait. >> Okay. >> Can I have more information about what makes up that $300,000 for IB? And uh I do believe that we've not done a good job over time of actually promoting that program and investing in it. district and so uh I you know because of the elements of IV because of its ability to really you know be something I think would be foundational for all our students you know but I'm not going there I'm just saying I'd like to have more information beyond the information with those what's that $300,000 because I also understand that a lot of costs for IB are reimbured by the state and I also I'm sorry. Did you say >> you said it's not true? >> Is that true? >> Okay. Well, I mean, we don't have to say it. >> We got reimbured $17,000 in 2024 and we got reimbursed $11,000 in 2025. >> Not very substantial. >> We're going to have a grant program right now. >> Anyway, I hear what you're saying. >> Okay. So, we have the directions given that we need to get to our meeting and our public hearings and get the other public hearings set up. So, let's talk about the public hearing. Can we do that? >> Can I back Can I back up one thing just because I know this question came up at and then director Bass, do you want to first? >> Well, I'm ready to talk again, too. Director Long, did you have something maybe? >> Yeah. I was just wondering if maybe so in the email that you sent, Terry, if we could go through number nine in there around IB in your response to your email. Yeah. What's it? >> Um, so the question is IB financial impact for the last few years. And then a there's 46 uh,000 annual fees. It talks about Cooper has 30 34,000 RMS 2,000, Lake View 9,000. Not really sure what the annual fee is that you're referring to there. What does that mean? >> And then there's an email that she sent us. >> It's in the email that you sent us, December 5th. >> Y So A is the annual fees. So that's what it costs annually for those for each building to run the IV program. >> So yearly at each building, that's that's the cost. >> Correct. >> So really RMS with that 2,000 a year, >> but then there's a coordinator. >> So then you have to look down and so I mean we can go through each one of Sure. There's $46,000 in annual fees between the three sites. There's roughly $15,000 in exam fees. Um there's deferred training that happens every year and that changes depending upon how many staff are new staff. It's $1,200 staff. Mean by deferred training >> that means that uh annually or not annually that means that when new staff come on technically they're supposed to be trained in IB and how to do IB work. And so it's called deferred training. It's $1,200 per individual. So, in the current year, there are two individuals at Lake View. There's one person at uh Cooper. Um there are 20 current staff at Cooper that have no formal training, and that would rough $24,000. In addition to that, we have a.5 IV coordinator at Lake View. We have a 1.0 IV coordinator at Cooper. We have a 0.5 IB coordinator at RMS. We have an IB part-time administrative assistant at Cooper. We have 1.0 Spanish teacher at Lake View. We have 0.9 in Spanish at RMS. And we have 2.0 FTE Spanish at Cooper. And the 900 or $791,000 does not include the 24,000 that would take place for the staff that still needs to be trained at Cooper. So why is the fee the annual fee at the high school so much more than it is at the elementary school? >> I don't know why that is. I'd have to look into that. >> Especially when at the high school there are 20 staff that aren't trained. >> Staff training has nothing to do with the annual fee. My if I remember correctly, the fee is based on the scope of the program that's being run at the school at the level. So PY is different. I guess I would question then if there are 20 staff that aren't trained, what level of programming are you running there? >> I don't I don't know the answer to that question. That would be something I can tell you that based on staff leaving staff coming in, that's where they are currently >> cuz and then there's basically no fees really at the middle school level. There's just that 2,000 and then that part-time IB coordinator. >> You have IB coordinator. We've got Spanish teachers. >> Yeah. But compared to all the other costs, I mean, it's like most of the funding is at Cooper. >> I'm assuming because at Cooper because you're running the diploma program. What's happening at Cooper? >> Top of my head. >> Dr. McDow, also they would have to be trained annually at middle school as well. They're just currently all trained. >> Currently, they're correct. Yeah. >> Yep. >> So, none of the middle school teachers need training in IV. Correct. So there would be no need for deferred training then because they're all trained there at AR. >> I think I have it listed in there just at Lake View and CHS. We have we have two people at Lake View and one person at CHS that has deferred training. >> That's the information that we provide. >> Okay. So is there support uh board to eliminate the IB program as recommended? Um I know there was conversation uh last week about whose decision and what was asked last year of the board around IB. I know I ultimately was the one who pulled the recommendation. Um so there was no decision that was made last year. Um, but I want to be sure that this is a joint conversation. Even though I believe you've hired me to um to make decisions about programming, I want to be sure that if you don't think it should be my decision to recommend and to do that, I've got board input on that. Okay. So yeah, >> first of all, I do believe it's administration's perview of decide programming, but I also what I heard from um the middle school principal who came to speak to us was that the difficulty of having one IB school and then other kids coming from nonIB schools meant it was really hard to have an IB school, you know, a partial IB school in other words, and run it with fidelity. in that I think that if we really wanted if IB was what we wanted to do in the future that we want to implement it so that all the feeder schools to the middle school and then to the high school really implemented it with fidelity and so I think it really needs a real thought well thoughtout process before it was re-implemented on a side note I also wanted to say because there's a lot of talk about refitting buildings if they change age groups or being used for offices was at a meeting at Stillwater and they their district office building that I was at or teaching learning building is a former elementary school and they didn't change out the toilets and it was perfectly fine. It works beautifully. So >> everything flushed away >> and I was able to use it and the rooms were great for the meetings. It was absolutely wonderful. Great. Goes down the side. >> So I would like to also say I believe that the IB is administrative decision. However, I also would like to say I support eliminating the ID as a school board person and you are saying that too >> and I support >> as as an administrative decision >> as an administrative decision and as a possibility for the future if we discover or decide that that's a pathway that we want to go on. But for me in that it has not had any fidelity over all these years with only two graduates out of that program. It's sad >> or 2526. It's sad that it went that way. It doesn't mean it has to be gone forever, but to your point, there really needs to be some discussion around it. and and I just you know I was here 25 years ago when we when that board voted on bringing my ID in. So it's been painful to watch it die out. So but again belongs to to me it belongs to the administration and if that's something that we want to talk about in earnest uh for future planning that's something we can do >> administrative but supportive >> y I I would like us to come back and talk about that program. I I really would like for this to come talk about program. I mean across the board we it's another discussion that we had and so um I'm not really equivalent about administrative or not administrative. I think we need to really look at what programs we're going to have across the district and I happen to think that the IB program has a lot of good attributes that would be well our district would be well served. So, the cost issues, I heard you just talk about those um assistant superintendent and that email list that came when I was at the delegate assembly because I didn't see that email that had all of that spec information. I'll go back and find it if it got sent. So, I'll go back. >> I sent it probably 6:00 Friday evening. >> I thought I was telling you >> as we were still I think you just go back the next morning. I'll go back again. Well, when you we were leaving the delegate assembly, I said I got this from the superintendent and you said about something else. >> No, that's what I was reading. >> So, but I just want to be clear. I want to come back and talk about I'm not done to talk about it. I'm just being transparent and I I you know, >> director, do you have an opinion? >> Um, I mean, I think I have stated my opinion on the program in previous discussions. It is a good program. Nobody is saying it is not, but for our district currently it is not serving the purpose that it needs to. We should be able to revisit that in the future, but maybe not for the next year. So I support just getting rid of it. >> Absolutely. And I it's really not it really should be an administrative business, but I >> I disagree on both counts. Okay. Do you still have a majority? Okay. >> Then um okay then I think team is there anything else we need right now or can we move on to the hearing? All right. Um then I think I will hand it to you as we think about the preparation um for the hearing on the 15th. Okay. So we'll talk a little bit about parameters, guidelines, uh, and the resolution. Okay. So moving to the parameters. As a board, we get to control the time, place, and everything that happens at the hearing. Um, we get to do the limitations on the speakers and limitations also on the audience. This is a formal hearing, public hearing. It's different from listening time. Some of the things that we do in listening time that work really well, we can use in the hearing, but some things will be different from having it be a listening time. So, speaking parameters, those who want to speak can sign up starting tomorrow morning uh >> at 8:00 tomorrow morning. There's a there'll be a Google form. They'll be active tomorrow morning at 8:00 and or they want if they want to speak and they arrive as long as they get here not later than 6:30 p.m. and get their name on the list, they can speak. That way we have some control as if people just arrive and listen and listen and then I should have something to say. We have a little more control of not being here all night. But we do want to hear everybody. So sign up starts tomorrow on the Google form on the website. Everybody's allowed three minutes just like at a listening time. Everybody can speak only one time. Um and sometimes in listening somebody says, "Well, I didn't take two minutes. You can have my two minutes." We're not doing that. 3 minutes is three minutes. And when the three minutes are up, they stop. They have two more sentences to go to bed. When the three minutes are up, the three minutes are up. >> I think we also saw tonight that when people went over, they went over and then some people didn't get to speak. So, I would like to see us come to three minutes and shut it off. I I I mean, I can say that having been a candidate so many times when you're going to get two minutes here, three minutes here, you don't get a chance to just sort of keep talking. And so tonight, and because there were people that weren't heard and everyone went right up to and then went over a little bit, I would like it to be very clear that at 3 minutes, it is our option to cut you off. Just practice your practice what you have >> because they know they're going to be speaking at a public a formal public hearing. All you got to do is time yourself and see how long it's going to take. Several of our speakers tonight timed it out like to the second. I mean it can be done >> and they did it really well. >> So um they they don't get to get time from other people and when their time is up their time is up >> so that other people can have their time. >> Right. We want to hear everybody. We want to hear everybody but they can be concise. You can say a lot in three minutes if you are being concise in your planned ahead of time. Did you want to say something? I thought >> just ju no just to be helpful. So our plan will be to support the board. We will have a link online tomorrow morning for people to sign up on a Google form. It will track who signs up and by time and then that will be the order. So it'll be clear to everybody who signed up starting tomorrow morning. >> So if 15 people from Sonosan are there at 9:00 in the morning, there will be 15 people from Sonos before anybody else signs up because it's absolutely just who's first, who's second or third. And then we'll follow that order. And then to to help with the 3 minutes, we will have >> exact director Hearn who will have uh a yellow one minute sign and you have one minute left. An orange 30 second sign and then a red stop sign and then she will verbally also say you are done. >> That's the mic. >> And and and I am thinking I am the facilitator because it's the board hearing. Correct. >> Good. Okay. >> I just have a question or I just want to make sure because we did hear tonight that it was hard to find where to >> to turn in. So, right. So, I mean it's a Google form, but will it be on the main page of the website will be under the board section like where will people find? >> It is going to be in both places. >> Great. Yes. >> I just want to make sure we're going to make it as we're going to make it as obvious as possible for people and then when we call people up, we're going to be calling people up three at a time. So, it'll be maybe on the screen even >> we won't scroll the order but we are working on having outside of the room on the screen so you can hear >> who's being called >> um but it'll constantly be three people so you're up you're up next you're on deck >> and then also when they arrive that night and they get up to the third floor I believe there will be somebody greeting them to see if they want to speak and they can get it taken care of right then also >> yep if they don't find it online, then we will have a person stationed right outside the elevator. We will have two Chromebooks that are set up the Google form and people can sign up right there and sign up will go until 6:30. So, it'll be going half hour past the board meeting even starting. So, we're hoping that'll take care of everybody that can figure it out, plan it out, and people that just they need the last minute and that's their deal. >> Director Long, then director Bass. So, since you're facilitating it, then are you going to be the one to make sure people stop? >> Yes. Well, you'll you'll say >> the timer cut them off >> and then I will we can take two minutes because they will need to stop and it needs to be very clear that that's when we start it out. They will know they're done when the timer goes up. And in the interest of fairness to everybody, they don't get extra words where it's turn. >> We're gonna have it here. >> Yeah. Be in here. Okay. That takes care of the speakers. Now, the audience, there should be no signs, no whiteboards, no write on items, no placards, no mascots, no applause, cheering, or booing after or during the testimony. This is a serious formal public hearing. So it's different from a board meeting. It's different from listening time and it will be on the website that for the audience we will tell everybody but uh it's it's the reason for that is I want the board to be able to focus on every word that everybody is saying and when someone in the background changing their signs it it is distracting or the or the mascot starts going like this or there's clapping it's distracting and So, if we can just be able to focus on exactly what everybody is saying, I feel like it's honoring the people who have come and it's respectful and it's responsive. So, that's the reason for that. Anybody have something they want to say about that? >> I like the mascots. You like the mascots? I'm sorry. They can come a different day. >> Question. If what happens if things like that are happening and what is the plan? They mascots cannot be in here. Signs are not allowed in here. Um it people are respectful. People are when they understand the when people understand the rules, they generally follow them. But I'm just saying what >> I' I've been in places where people don't. So I'm just asking like do we have a plan? >> Um I know yes we have. >> So I I would add a couple things. uh one so again the board for office the board can control the time place and manner of the hearing so uh regular parameters around free speech things like that the board can control uh the things that are on there uh so to that end to help the court we will have people here um that will remind what the rules are and the procedures are and hopefully to your point that will be enough to either It's a mask, they go change and come back. Um, if they have signs, they put them outside and they leave them. >> Hopefully, we don't get to a spot where we have to ask people to. >> Well, and if we can have a place for them to securely store their mascot outfit or their signs or something if they happen to bring them, they just are not allowed in here. It's distracting when you really want to focus on people that are not. >> We have had incidents in this boardroom where people have started yelling, for example. Will we then adjourn? >> We will have We won't really recess. >> Recess and then restore order. >> Okay. And then recess and we will restore order. >> That was really my question. Okay. >> And that is at the will of the chair. >> It is. I looked up the Minnesota statute and that's the that's what the chair has to do. >> I read it yesterday and I read it again today. >> Read it again tomorrow. >> We will do our best to help. what you're >> well we are a team up here and we need to be listening so does any questions on that any okay let's move is there another slide there is establishing resolution for a vote okay so this is when the public hearing is over then Um we will have legal available hopefully legal will have some templates boiler plates whatever it's called for resolutions. So be it resolved that Star Wars school this or that is closing and they will have to write words for us once we as a group decide what we want to fill in that blank with. So we will discuss we'll consider our options. Um, we can pair buildings, we can do it one by one. We get to do it the way we want to do it. But we know we are now committed to closing a middle school and three elementary >> two next two >> two middle schools >> and >> well but but the the the the second the second elementary and uh middle school actually we don't get to the final vote on that till January. So the one middle school and the two elementaryaries are what we have to decide on >> and the we have to decide >> and the rest of them we bounced to January for another hearing same rules. And then >> so if I understand from legal with regard to the ESC versus school buildings is the board votes for the ESC but the resolution piece is the formal document for school houses. Okay. >> And because the ESC is in a school house I think if I understand legal correctly you'll vote on it just like everything else but it doesn't have to be part of that resolution language. So >> we'll still >> that you'll still you'll still >> on the 15th we still would vote. So, so we will we have to vote on ESC, we have to vote on >> RMS and we have to vote on two of the four. Bass. >> Well, you know, I don't think I saw the ESC on that list. And uh one of the things that um really I feel fairly strongly about is that I I don't think that that decision is neuted right now. And uh quite frankly, I think that that decision to close ESC can should should wait. Not that it can wait. I think it should. I think the top priority are these buildings right now, the school buildings that we're talking about closing. And that was not that recommendation came out of the sky. It's not something we talked about. It's something that was brought forth by the administration. It's not a criticism. It's just an observation. And so, um, I think in in part two or or in phase two or whatever, um, I really feel like it's important if we're going to be talking about closing all of these buildings, I think it's important for the admin, the brains of the implementation of the administration should be stable in here, not because managing the closure of all these buildings is enough by itself. And I think the decision to talk about the ESC and where it goes and all that stuff I think can come later. And um I think I've said that before and long. Yeah, I guess I agree with that too. And it brought up for me, we haven't been talking about ESC in the last couple of times except for a possible recommendation of moving it to um RMS. But could we go through 11 in your email where you talked about because that was one of the questions that I had here about the boardroom and the cost of things in here and how you know if we move all this stuff like what's going to be that that cost to move it to someplace else. So, would we move this exact equipment or But if you could talk through that answer cuz you go into there. The audio visual in the board was approximately $127,000. The cost to repaint this room was $5,000. Um, other costs, not specific. Um, and then it goes into cost about two $219,000 and $556,000 over a 5year window. And then the worst case scenario would be $900,000. I guess I I'd like you to talk me through that. I can certainly help address it to the best of my ability. So, obviously, we don't recover or you can't repurpose paint, right? like what's on the walls and the $5,000 that was spent is is spent. It's it's what you see. Um when you are looking at furniture, fixtures and equipment, of course, it can be repurposed. You know, there screens in this room and everything that happens can can be um repurposed. The biggest challenge um as far as identifying because the question was and for the public the question was please identify what the five years what it has cost to repair, maintain and do what have you in this building. The challenge is is the way that um quite honestly our projects were coded at that time. Everything received a code that would be inclusive of ESC. So districtwide I can't possibly parse out this was specific to ESC. This was bus garage. this was exactly what happened because quite honestly it was dumped into one big bucket and and it can't be sorted. That's why you have the range of pricing. What I can tell you is the dollar amounts that you just read is what was coded to that loan up to $900,000. In all likelihood, there were other expenses in there. It wasn't just the ESC building. So, when looking at the range that I said it's probably more like half a million or whatever the dollar amount was, that's probably more than likely directly attributed to this building. But unfortunately, the financial records aren't consistent or clear enough for me to be able to do that. So, that's why you have the information you have and trying to address the five-year question. um when looking at um if if we were to move today and and I was looking at numbers um and it was specific to uh you at the time but quite honestly I don't see a significant variation depending on the building if the ESC were to move um there is cost to and like moving us and creating uh you know some private offices or reassembling um cubicles doing items like that. Uh I would say the best estimate to get us up and running somewhere else would be let's say half a million to 750,000. So 500 to 750,000 to put us somewhere else. Again, uh, director Basset had mentioned earlier, we would be looking at, uh, capital for that. When talking about relocating the IT or fiber/server room, that's probably about another $45,000. Um, as far as the print shop, you know, we would have to look at what is the viability of the print shop with the HVAC equipment and if we choose to keep a print shop. again all discussions that haven't been had yet. Uh it would be approximately 180,000 to 250,000. So yes, there are costs to to move us to a different building and get that building up and running. Unfortunately, I can't be more descriptive expense than what the information you've received because our quite honestly our financial records aren't that clean. >> What would happen to like board meetings in the meantime? Like still come here until the other place was or what would happen with that? Yeah, with this building, this this building would have to move in phases. Um, again, if it were, we don't we don't have to move on a school calendar timeline like students do. We don't have to have the buildings up and ready. That said, and I had stated this before, I wouldn't be moving the enrollment office anywhere in the time frame of August to October 1st. I just wouldn't that this is where people know where to come. So, enrollment would probably move at a different time. um when a boardroom would be ready somewhere else would be moved at a different time. It would go in phases. The odds of one day this building is up and running and the next day is closed would be highly unlikely just given the time um of the particular tasks that go on. Um HR, you know, you're not going to move HR when you're in the middle of spring. Uh that's hiring season. So, it really depends on how quickly spaces could get renovated. And please understand for the public that that isn't that isn't a office suite. That's literally creating cubicles. It's not when I use that terminology, I don't want that to be taken out of context, but that's how it would have to work. And so to have we know it would be phased whenever the next phase was ready depending on the timing is when it would go and eventually this building would be vacant. So sorry I just have one more thing. I just have one more thing. Okay. So last time too I asked you know so we get this information in in an email of questions that we've asked and I feel like there's a lot of important information in this email that the public should know. So, how and it wasn't all brought up today. So, how is that information going to get out there so that the public knows some of these answers to these questions that were asked because there's things in here about wage freezes? the the purpose the purpose so first of all we did mark it I'm sorry for interrupting I did I did mark this as a confidential memo >> um just I I did on this time the the reason that I send so what I always ask the board to do is to send questions and almost weekly I then on our team work on those questions and we make sure that board members have the answers the purpose of it is for the board so that the board my promise and my job is to make sure the board members have the information that they need to make decisions at the board table. This isn't information that it's not that it's not public information, but the purpose of it is for the board. So, I don't know what that would look like for every correspondent and information that I share with the board to also be sent to the public. So, I I don't know. No, I mean if there's an FAQ or something like if there's some questions that you know we have, we could do that. But I again the purpose of that is you all sent me questions. I made sure that we got back to you and I I hear what you said you're saying because I think it does bring clarity to some of the questions that we've heard from our community members. So, so let's keep thinking about what makes sense in that, you know, because one of the things I did think of doing at the beginning of this meeting, Director Long, is is taking some of those questions and concerns that we've heard from the community and responding directly to those. That felt really defensive, honestly, and that's why I chose not to do it, to say, "No, one of the things we've seen is a 90-day petition, so we didn't do the SOD plan." And what I would have said is well we can't we don't have the luxury of waiting for submitting the sod plan. So I don't know the best way to do it and I'm certainly open to to what the board thinks as we go forward of how we balance that. You having what you need and then if there's other information and a Q&A that should be public what that looks like. >> Dr. Well, I'm just curious, you know, how much you estimate taking this building offline will save in addition to the estimated 13 million in repairs that the building needs. >> Uh just operationally, >> oper operationally it would truly it's the timing of it. What we're going to say unlike the other buildings, right? The other buildings we see significant savings in part because it's staff, right? this staff moves wherever this staff moves. And so the savings that comes with this with this building being closed is ultimately just I shouldn't say just would be utilities. I mean you're looking at the cost of utilities probably the cost of a custodian. Um and that's what we receive. What you get from us moving is the pairing of other programming. So you're more efficient in whatever building that other programming goes into. It's just one less building, but it doesn't come by shuttering us per se. >> So, you're getting more efficient use of the space in the other buildings and saving the construction. >> Correct. And and ultimately saving repair costs and what have you. What that looks like. >> So, so on campus wait till phase two. I I think the point is that we do need we have some other programming that we one of the vacated buildings that we have um we probably most likely will need to use for High View and RBA. So it makes sense if we can get some savings from this we would then also move to make sure that we're using that building at capacity. And that probably also, you know, the conversation we haven't had yet that was brought up earlier this evening was about the selling of this property. And that would probably then get us in a position to have that conversation sooner. >> Well, I guess that's kind of that's really kind of my point is that um you know, we have time to make that decision. Once we decide which schools we're going to act, buildings, school buildings that we're going to actually close, we'll be in a better position to know what the rest of the lay of the land is. And quite frankly, we haven't had any conversation about land use or any of those kinds of things. And that's a joint discussion because the school the the district can't sell property without the approval of the school board. And due respect, I said that earlier this evening that we haven't had those conversations >> actually those that's the only reason I'm saying I don't think that should be on this list >> and you know I mean I think we should wait till phase two and it's the only reason than the things we're talking about because there's so many other dominoes that need involved you know and then once they do we'll be in a better position to determine what to do next and there is cost in moving this facility and there's going to be cost in all the others but the students we're going move them regardless. And so once we make a decision about where we're going to meet um for the the extra programs, I mean that can be always be factored. I just think I I'm reluctant to put it on this list because I don't think it's necessary, you know. I mean that's you know for the reason I that you know there is not anything other than that. You know I don't see us in the condition that we're in right now. I'm not into spending money that we don't need to spend right now quite frankly. And if we're already in sod, why aren't we moving a building that we don't need to move right now? Why don't we wait and see where we're going? And then once we get a little closer to where we're going, it'll make more sense about where to site things, where to put things, what to put together. You know, it's all connected. The land use and all the rest of it is connected. And I don't think just pulling this out and plucking it over here someplace is because we've invested a lot of money in this building just to move it without plan makes sense to spend money without plan. So no more mystical than that. So I don't agree it should be on the list right now. I think it should wait because it's not an urgency. What's going to happen if we don't? I think I certainly respect things that the superintendent say about some of the needs and we know the building is not ideal but I think there are other bigger questions with regard to land use and everything else that's tied up in this building and once you make some decisions it's hard to go back decisions that can wait should wait that's just my opin >> yeah just a clarifying question did you say 500,000 to move start from this building to another building. I hear that right? >> And it well not just move in to to structure the building the other to prepare the building as well. >> The building that the staff is moving into. >> Correct. Correct. >> And that is one year >> or by the time the last person leaves this building you will be spending about $500. >> It would be five five00 to $750,000 again. you would have to construct a couple of offices like again it depends on the building the layout it that was kind of if we were to look at specifically to Lake View at that time what's the best estimate of cost that would be the best estimate of cost to get it up and operational excuse me as a central service unit. I guess the reason I I wanted that clarification is when we we are looking at, you know, closing programs and transportation for less of that cost, right? And as a district, if we are wanting to really save money in the next year or two, just like Director Basset was saying, does this need to happen in the immediate future or is this something we can push forward to the next year or the year after to make sure we are not spending 500,000 where we are closing programs that are less than half of that from our classrooms? there is a distinction. So the the five to $750,000 is cap would be cap well some of it would be moving but the majority of that would be a capital expense not a like a general operating expense. So, it's a different bucket nonetheless. Still to your point where what the intent would be is back to if you were to have uh high view in RVA now in a building that an elementary school. If they move to an elementary school, you now technically didn't really shutter that elementary school in its totality. You still have custodians. You still have heat. you still have operations coming, you know, plowing everything coming in and out of that building. Then it makes then the question is does it make sense to go in tandem? So you you're not operating two buildings, you're operating one building. That's the efficiency. >> Let me just just for a followup though, what I thought I had was this whole building would not be moving at the same time. So it's possible that by next September there is still one or two people in this building. That's entirely possible. >> So >> yes, that is true. >> Then director and I was just going to say but the other thing is that meanwhile we still have to then continue to maintain this building, repair this building, put money into this building. So then at the same time when people are concerned about putting money into this building, as long as building is occupied, we're going to have to keep fixing it, keep painting it, keep, you know, repairing it. So we're going to continue to be investing in this building as long as there are people working here. So then at the same time, we're also investing in two building, right? where we have the RVA High View, wherever that is, and this building that we're going to continue to have to also maintain and and keep up in good working condition, whereas if we close this building, we wouldn't have to do that. So, it's just something else to think about. I I hear what you're saying, but also this building does not in the next one year, two years, but it does need a whole lot of repairs um coming up. It's actually on the bottom of our list because our square foot it needs the most investment. So, something to keep in mind. Um, we're not voting on it tonight. I'm just putting it out there that to me it seems very inefficient. um when we could be consolidating. But I hear what you guys are saying to clarify before I call on Director Basset and then Director Long to clarify when the board voted to close ESC that was also to go to the public hearing and so the final vote would be on the 15th. >> Got it. Okay, Dr. Basset. Well, um, you know, I, um, I, I lost my train of thought as Republic was speaking, so I I'll just pass out. I think I said the main things I want to say about this bill, too, you know, because being good stewards of the public dollars, whether they're coming from capital funds or wherever they're coming from, is a top concern of mine. Given some of what we've gone through this life, I think making a decision to just kind of stay put till we to the dust settles. We know where we're going and what we need is the better thing to do there. I just remember uh we have some lease space. We haven't even talked about the lease space really in detail. I think there may be some comments in here and I'm going to look through this. I I missed that email last night. So, I'm going to look through this, you know, lose here. But uh I do think that we have a lot of conversation to have about other space and lease sites and leases and everything else that we have. We have some other spaces that some things can be in without spending money, you know. So, um I just think that if just like we're building our way out of the statutory operating debt, I think we need to build our way out of being perceived as good stewards of the public dollar. And we don't need to spend money on some things right now that can wait. You know, I mean, I we've been talking about doing something for this building as long as I've been on the board. It needs something. But does it need it right now? And if if it's true that it's going to be maybe it could be a whole year from now before the last people leave this building, you're going to still have to keep it up. I don't care if it's two people in the building or if it's 25. We can't let the two people who are here sit here and be cold. We can't let the pipes freeze. As long as there's a staff people who are in this building, we're going to have to maintain it. And I just say right now, I feel better having the brains of this organization staying put while we're doing all this movement with these buildings and we're doing all this calculation with what the families need. that is the top priority and we've gotten emails from some of the systems right now people are complaining about that don't quite work you know and I don't want to jump on that badly because it wasn't my experience but the point is is that we've got some things right now that you know we're having some challenges with so to uh tinker with that we need the brain trust to be stable I don't think you know I mean I I don't really see you know half the people are over here. Anyway, I I've pretty much said what I have to say. I don't want to hear. >> Thank you. Tre. >> Yeah. Regardless of if there's people in here or not, there's still going to have to do maintenance that we do to this property until it's somebody else's property. >> So, just the point that I there will be money that we will put into the property even if there is nobody on the property. So regardless, there's still going to be money associated to a property even if it's >> anything else on um the public hearing that we're having on a week from today. >> Thank you for figuring it out. >> Did you go through the resolution part? Um, right. Legal legal will have the resolutions so that we follow the letter of the law and we put in the parts that we need. But what we have to do is figure out which ones are the ones to close and who's moving where. >> Do we have a time limit for the the hearing part? Just curious. No, it's not like tonight where they anyone who is here and says they want to speak by 6:30, we will listen to if it goes till 2:00 in the morning, we will be focused on listening to every word that they want to tell us and we know we can do 2 in the morning because we have them. >> Don't so we're ready and we're trained. >> But we are up for it. If the public wants to talk that long, we know we can. >> Just wanted to understand the parameters and you know I'm here for it. >> Uh do biology breaks kind of in between cuz I know we start at 6 tonight and have had no you know >> that's true >> and and I would uh say you know if it goes till 2 in the morning establish like a time like if we start at six >> do we need like a 10 minute break at or a five minute break at 8 or 8:30? What what would you like? >> I would say >> at least 90 minutes to 2 hours because that's attention spans with people. >> Okay. >> And then Yeah. >> So maybe 6:00, 8:00, and 10 I mean 8:00 and 10:00 we have automatic breaks. >> And I sometimes get really focused on what's happening. Would somebody please remind me when it's 8:00 that it's time to do a recess? >> Can somebody do that now? We've agreed on it. Just somebody has to tell me and I'll do it. >> We'll keep you on. >> Perfect. Good. I do love a good break. >> Okay. So, we don't need agenda setting then, right? It's already set. >> We're set for next week, but then we will need one following that for January 5th. >> Okay. Just kidding. Okay. Questions and discussion. I think we've had that. Anybody are we okay on the rest of the agenda? >> Are we done? >> Thank you everybody. We are >> done. >> We got a lot done tonight. Good meeting. Thank you.