[Music] Good evening. I would like to call this meeting of the Robbinsdale Area School Board to order. Today is Monday, October 20th. It is 6:01 p.m. We are in the boardroom of the Education Service Center. And I would like to start by reading our land acknowledgement statement. We acknowledge Robinsdale Area Schools is located on the homelands of the Dakota and Ajiway people. We recognize the painful history of genocide and forced assimilation of the indigenous inhabitants of this land. We honor and respect the many indigenous peoples who live on and hold sacred these lands. And we stand with members of these nations to fight injustice in all of its forms. We uphold the preservation of Dakota and Ajiway languages, land-based education, and tribal sovereignty. And um before we call the role, I will just mention some of you were here earlier. Uh we were soundly defeated by the Armstrong High School Quiz Bowl team tonight. >> 510 to 200, but it was a great experience for us. So if you were here, that's what you were watching. >> Good. >> All right. Please call the role. >> And it could have been worse. >> Oh, it could have been a lot worse. >> Uh yes, with pleasure. Uh Director Basset. >> Uh yes. Sorry I'm late. Uh excuse me. As you all know, for the public's benefit, um I I lost my sister, so I've been dealing with quite a bit and I was a little bit late. So, I just wanted to acknowledge that because you're here waiting. >> Carry on. >> Uh Director Bowman is present. Um Chair Evans Becker, >> I'm here. >> Director Hillbrand >> here. >> Director Long >> here. >> Director Wuto >> here. >> And Dr. Stallow >> here. Thank you. I think you're welcome. >> We are all here. So, first thing up is approval of our agenda. This is a voice vote. Do I have a motion to approve our agenda for tonight? >> So, moved. >> Moved by Director Hillbrand. Seconded by Director Bowman. Seeing no hands, all in favor, please say I. >> I. I. >> Oppose. Say nay. >> We have an agenda. Okay. Next item is the consent agenda. items on the consent agenda are routine in nature and are enacted with one uh motion of the board unless a particular board member wants to remove an item and then we will vote on that separately. So, items on our consent agenda for tonight are um administrative, the monthly professional development report and meeting minutes, financial reports, bimonthly dispersements report, business office monthly contract report, community education monthly contract report, dispersements for September 2025, and um monthly budget to actual report, personnel reports, licensed uh licensed staff lane changes, licensed staff personnel report, and non-licensed personnel report. Is there a move to accept the consent agenda? >> So moved. >> Moved by Director Bowman. >> Second. >> Seconded by Director WH. This is a roll call vote because it involves money. >> I just have a question. >> Oh yes. So I was just wondering I was looking at the um the report on the professional development and there was a re uh professional development for bargaining and then it said something about the outcome was for it was for reading. I'm thinking that was a misprint cuz I'm thinking that went with the PD1 below. I'm trying to find it here. Sorry, there's a lot of charges in here. Oh, is it this? Yes. Yep. And then it says alignment with the SIP. And then it says reading intervention. I'm thinking that that probably went with the bar training, not the negotiation seminar or does the negotiation seminar align with the SIP goal of reading intervention? >> I think you're probably accurate. >> We'll assume that you're correct >> that it was it was a misprint. Okay, >> we can get that corrected. Thanks. >> Okay, >> that was it. That was my only question. >> Thank you very much. In that case, we're ready to vote on the consent agenda. Will the clerk please take the vote? With pleasure. Director Basset. >> Yes. >> Director Bowman votes yes. Chair Evans Becker. >> Yes. >> Director Hillbrand. >> Yes. >> Director Long. >> Yes. >> Director Wuto. >> Yes. >> 7. >> We have approved the consent agenda. Okay. Moving on. Number five, unfinished business. We don't have any. So, let's do number six, new business. Um, the first item is an action item. The annual support of forms A and B to the Minnesota State High School League. uh foundation director Williams, executive director Williams. Um actually [Laughter] um I made a request to roll up two resolutions, form a and form B u uh from the Minnesota State High School League. Um form a um grant support for Minnesota high school youth. Um it helps offset the cost of students who qualify for free and reduced activity fees. Um from Armstrong this year of 2425 we had 653 students who qualified for free and reduced and uh at Cooper we had 324 um students who qualified for free and reduced. These are unduplicated numbers and um students who participated in in various activities. So this form a helps offset some of that cost. Um I'm also here to request again approval of the resolution for the 4B um grant application to the Minnesota State High School League. Um the purpose of this grant is to provide funding to assist school districts with um three specific areas including leadership initiatives um safety and transportation to that reduces the barriers um for participation. The Minnesota State High School League Foundation is a nonprofit association. Um the foundation awards grants to assist, recognize, promote and fund extracurricular activities um by high school students in athletics, fine arts programs. Um grants are awarded based upon gender balance, school size, and geographic location to the extent possible. Um any questions? >> Anyone have any questions on this? This is routine. We do this every year. >> Yes. >> Okay. So then what I would like is a motion to >> I think one minute a move to move the resolution for form A. >> Right. I I was going to move the approval of form A and B grant. We're going to do it in one. Correct. >> We do it in one or do we do it in two? >> Uh we typically we we have done it in two but I'm not sure if they can can they two? >> I think we've done it in two in the past. Go scope. You want to do A first? >> Sure. Move approval of form A >> and wave the reading of the resolution. Correct. >> Okay. Is there a second to approve form A? >> Second. >> Moved by Director Bowman, seconded by Director Hillenbrand. All in favor, please say I. >> I. I. Oppose. Say nay. Okay, we've approved form A. Let's go ahead and do the same thing for form B. Do I have a a person moving the resolution? >> I'll move approval as a resolution of form B. >> Thank you, Director Bowman. Do I have a second? >> Second. Seconded by director Wuto. All in favor of approving and and let's wave the resol reading the of the resolution on that. Yes. Yes. Yep. Okay. Okay. Uh all in favor of approving resolution uh B please say I. >> I say nay. Okay. We have approved A and B. >> Okay. Thank you. All right. See new business. The next item is the resolution for accepting of donations. Let me get back to that. Each month we accept donations. >> I move approval. >> Thank you. Director Basset has moved approval of accepting the donations. >> I'll second. >> Seconded by Director Bowman. This is a roll call vote because it has to do with money. Let's take the vote on accepting the donations. With pleasure. Uh, Director Basset, >> yes. >> Uh, Director Bowman votes yes. Uh, Chair Evans Becker, >> yes. >> Director Hillbrand, >> yes. >> Director Long, >> yes. >> Director Wuto, >> yes. >> 6. >> Thank you very much. We thank we accept the donations and we thank the people who did the donating. >> All right. Item number seven is policy. We have second reads on policies. Um these policies are director Bowman, what's the word? >> These are um technical >> technical in that it's just changes in wording due to state law changes and so in order to update our policies we have the our policy committee has updated the wording on these policies and this is our second read. Uh so is there >> I have a question. >> Uh director Basset. >> Yes. Uh, I'm just wondering and director WTO, you know, I had sent you some information about cross referencing our bylaws and uh, I just wondered if you had a comment. >> Um, I believe you were talking about policy. Thank you. >> Yes. And I think uh, the information that you emailed me is included in >> Oh, very good. I've been >> appreciate it. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you, chair. >> Okay. I have a question for Director W. Can these policies be enacted with just one motion? >> I think so. >> I think so, too. >> Okay. Then, would you like to move these policies be approved? >> So moved. >> Moved by Director Wuto, seconded by Director Coleman. We'll approve policy 205, 301, 302, 303, 304, 306, 414, 418, 516, 516.5, 522, and 802 in case you do a little light reading. Okay, let's uh vote on on approving these policies. All in favor, please say I. >> I. Oppose, say no. We have approved a whole bunch of policies with with technical changes. All right, that brings us to letter number eight, administrative reports. Superintendent Stalo. >> Excellent. Good evening, uh, Chair Evans Becker and board directors. I do not have a formal board report this evening and I just want to remind the public that the second business meeting each month is meant to be very brief in order for us to have time for a robust study session which we will be uh having as soon as we are completed with this business meeting. We have some important topics in that study session including the continuation of our planning around the statutory operating debt um uh plan that we have to create. So we invite folks to stay tuned after this business meeting. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Future events will scroll. Is there a move to adjourn this meeting? >> So moved. >> Moved by Director Bowman. >> Second. >> Second by director Wuto. All in favor please say I. >> I. >> Oppos. Nay. We are adjourned at 612. >> And that's a new record. >> It's almost time. So, we will start the study session at 6:20. >> I love the new agenda. >> Does that work? 6:20. And we're back. It is 6:20 on Monday, October 20th. We are in the boardroom and we are now beginning our study session. And when we have a study session, for those of you who haven't been here before, uh we go around and introduce ourselves at the table with this many people in the room. I don't think we're going to have everybody in the room introduce themselves. We'll just have the table and I'll introduce themselves. So I'm g to Evans Becker, board chair and we'll go school board. >> Can I school board school board executive director of human resources attorney for the school board assistant superintendent? Anthony Williams, executive director of community education, athletics and excellence. >> Preston Hisel, chief financial officer. Morin Mullen, director of facilities and operations. >> Caroline, school board, superintendent. >> Renee Bowman, school board. >> Molly Olsen, executive assistant to the superintendent and school board. >> All right, I'm going to hand this over to our superintendent uh for the Would we need to have a review of working document? >> Y. Okay, um the purpose of study sessions is to make sure that board members and administration um have an opportunity to discuss issues, review ideas, and share information in order for efficient and effective decision- making at the board table. Um as we review the board agenda, the working document tonight, um again, the this helps track the work that we're doing align to the five roles of school board governance. So actually the first uh one of the topics on here we actually added an item under board governance um because the board is going to be working through uh policy 215 school board vacancies and procedures. Um so that'll be one of the topics tonight. So we actually added this. It's a working document. So when things like this occur, we're able to add that. Uh the other um opportunities that the board has this evening uh for a study session and a work session is under the board role of operational performance oversight and organizational director direction direction. And like our previous study session uh a week ago and as we will continue to work through over the next month tonight we're going to focus on the statutory operating debt plan and continue to work through that process. Um, additionally, as part of that, as part of the discussion and the data sharing, we'll monitor, we'll use enrollment trends to plan strategically for current and future facilities, staffing, and bud budget decisions. Um, so those are really the big things for tonight. We also have an opportunity under board governance uh to review um and approve or not approve yet, but review the board governance handbook, which I know um has been worked on over the last several months. So big night. Uh so with that um I'll hand it back to you. >> Well, thank you very much. Okay, so um first thing up for us is the uh schoolboard vacancy discussion. As you know, Dr. Holmes resigned. And so um the timeline for when someone resigns from the school board dictates the process for replacing that school board member. And so the process that is appropriate for a particular timeline. It's not before an election is a certain amount of days away from anyway the timeline is that we post the event that we post the vacancy asking for applicants. We wait two weeks um we review the applications we rank the applicants decide on the number of interviews and um then we hold interviews with the applicants for schoolboard and then we make a decision. We appoint the new person and then the new person can't take office for 30 days after being appointed. So it's you have the two weeks and then we have the interview process and then we have the 30 days. So probably the new person won't take office until uh our first meeting in January, our organizational meeting in order to make meet all of the timelines with our established meeting dates. So, um, if anybody has any questions at any time about this, it was all in your packet. Um, next thing there's, uh, the media release for the vacancy, uh, the application form draft, a chance to look at the questions. There will be different questions in the interview and we are not uh we're not having those questions tonight because we have time because if you look at the timeline that's timeline if you look at the timeline um the media release will be sent today's the 20th the media release will be sent out on the 23rd. All of the applications have to begin by November 6th at 5:00 pm and then um we will finalize our candidate interview questions on the 17th. Depending on how many candidates we have, we will narrow it down to be uh we say five or six candidates. We did, didn't we? >> Well, that was lower than what you had said. >> Five or six. >> Seven. I was adventurous. Okay. Anyway, um we'll conduct the interviews with the selected candidates on November 20th and January 5th. The appointed candidate will take the oath box. Comments, questions, suggestions. Want to take a brief look at the questions on the application. everybody. Director Long. >> Um, so I will go first since I kind of looked at it ahead of time before you guys got it. Um, I had some questions about number 12 on there if we wanted to include that um, on there. It does say optional, but it asks for whoever is applying to include a link of their resume and some letters of reference. I'm not really sure. I mean, we didn't have to when we ran include our resume, even though we possibly talked about our resumes and we did not have to have um letters of reference either. So, I kind of felt like it didn't need to be on there, but I didn't want to be the sole one making that decision. >> And actually, we emailed back and forth, the two of us, because that's legal. And um I agree. I I I would say unless but we also decided to leave it up to the rest of the board. I mean, if you feel you need a resume or letters of recommendation, but to me, it's like if they answer the questions and they have the interview, I think we should be able to make the decision. Pass it. >> Well, I guess I'm more uh interested or or if I'm interested and um the rubric or criteria for because people will fill out the information, we'll all get it individually. And so then we will So the only question I have about the process is that independent criteria about the kind of qualities or what we're looking for I think does matter. Um and so and whether that's just a summary statement that we all agree to or whether that's an actual um skills uh they may be embedded in this form but um to ensure that we all we get to the end of the road and have applicants that everybody feels like meet a certain level. Uh and that's not the jar of it all. Uh I'm just saying that in the interest of moving forward, moving quickly, moving unified and finding the best candidate. That's my only interest. So I I'm not totally clear on you know how we get to the criteria. >> Okay. So the applicants have several um short essay questions to answer on their application form and then all the board members will get all of the applicants, but it will be a blind opportunity. There won't be a name. You won't be able to tell who actually is who, who has done it. And then we do the uh director applicant score sheet for each question. How well as board as an individual board member, we feel that person had um had answered that question. >> And so then what we'll do is we'll compile the board answers and decide which candidates that we'll be interviewing. >> Okay. And then at a later study session, we will produce questions for during the interview. Those will not be seen by the public, but we will get a copy of them to look at and go, I think question 12 should be like changed a little later. I think we should throw out this question and add another one, but the public will not see those questions ahead of time because that would be an unfair advantage for people to see the questions ahead of time. Then we'll pass those paper sheets back in and then we will use those cuz all candidates will be asked the same question. >> This sounds like a traditional way to do it. This sounds very fine. I guess given uh some of the feedback we've gotten from the public about our current whatever you want to call it uh you know relationship management whatever you want to say about it. Uh are there qualities that we are really looking for? And I think discussion about what those qualities are among our board without any prejudices but you know uh you know objectivity experience working on boards before in the area. I'm just throwing out some random stuff, but I'm just saying I I I do think if if uh Cook and vice chair gives a little bit of thought to that, uh you know, that's not something has has to be done tonight, although we're all here, so people have ideas about that. >> Audrey, >> um I would be interested in seeing a resume. Uh you know, it doesn't have to be anything in depth, but I think in all of our campaigns, we've all talked about what we do for a living. We've talked about our experiences in the world. We even maybe even talk about previous boards that we've served on or boards we may serve on in in a non uh public. So I think a I think if we're looking for uh qualities of an individual resume speaks to those uh qualification various qualifications. So, which to me is what campaign literature is about and web pages are about during a campaign where you're really giving that resume of yourself. So, I would be supportive not the letters of recommendation at all. No, but I would really be supportive of some sort of vet on an individual. I think that's important. >> Can we compromise on no letters of recommendation but keep a brief I say brief resume? >> Yep. Yes. I'll just stick with my original. I think 12 should just >> No. Okay. And >> what was your I didn't hear. >> She wants to get rid of question number 12, which is resume and two letters of recommendation. Okay. >> Director Bowman says, "Forget the letters of recommendation, but let's have a brief resume." What do you say? >> Well, I'm still on the question I asked which was not addressed. And so my my comment really kind of had to do with the qualities that we were >> and I think get to that. I'm not sure what you're thinking, but I know what I was thinking when I asked the question, you know, and so and thinking about qualities. We probably will, this community has some terrific people. So, I don't have any doubt we're going to get some great resumes and we get them all the time when we have the FAC and other things. But I think the qual I'm thinking about the board as it sits right now and the qualities that are really needed on you know to actually have us go forward qualities uh because anybody can write something on the resume but I think we're all going to be looking at it differently when we talk about the kind of qualities we think are important and uh so I was just interested in having that conversation. If nobody else thinks that that's important I'm okay with it. I'm just taking care of me and just saying what I think is important for the tip. >> Thank you. >> But my question >> to answer my question >> resumes I think are good. >> Resume would be okay. I'm okay with I think >> director resume again out >> I'll be neutral to that because I think if somebody does not have the ability to put up a good resume that should not disqualify them from being able to serve on this part I don't think >> yeah I mean there are also people with no job experience who may be parents who I have lots of PTA experience, volunteer experience. So, I don't know resume is necessarily uh the best thing I I'll be honest, the whole and this is the best process we can do, but the whole process makes me a little uncomfortable because I don't think we should be it's hard for us to decide for the community and but this is the best we have available to us right now. I'm not saying it's wrong, but one thing I want to make sure is that we're really, you know, as um relying on the district's um communication staff, which I know are great, is that we really really get this out there. Um so that we really get um not just the people who are really, you know, that we really get a broad swap, not just the people are really attuned, but also really get that out there to the community. Um so that we get a good broad spectrum of the community applying. Um, I'd really like to to hopefully get that out there and get as much um visibility to that as possible to to even make sure we have a good pool to serve. Um, and then and in terms of um qualities, I that's where I get it gets a little tricky like it's not a regular hiring process. I'm not going to decide the qualities that our community wants having serve us serve them, right? Us. I don't remember. Maybe we all are. Um, so that's a little trickier, but I hear what you're saying about a rubric because that's the best way to have an independent um, measurement to compare to, right? Then it's not our feeling or who we like or who we don't like. So, it would be good to have some sort of way to measure um, empirically if they're kind of meeting what we're what we need or what we're looking for. I don't know how that works though. Okay. So, um, we have some ideas for questions and if you have questions that you would like to submit, submit them. But then when we put them out there, uh, is it okay with you if we work for like some look fors or some rubric type look fors in that when we present the questions to you and then at a work session, we can just like take yes, no, this morning. Okay. Do you have to pass that? So, in response to what director had just said, I guess for me, uh, I'd just be okay with just hearing a verbal one word. What What is the quality that you look for in a good school board member? It's really not complicated. For me, it's integrity. That's my word. Integrity, you know? I mean, so if you have one word that you want to throw out there, fine. If you have none, that's okay. But I think one word and then when we look through that, because I'm going to be looking for some some integrity. How you measure that, I have no clue. You know, I mean, I I agree with you. I don't have any clue, but I but I'm saying out loud what is important to me and a new dire and a director to join this board. Given where we've been and what we've gone through, I think integrity matters. >> Thank you, Director Bowman. >> Um, I would like to get back to the notion of the resume. I don't believe a resume necessarily has to cast negative dispersions out someone if they don't read fully in that was never my intent for the resume but I mean because you've been a full-time stay-at-home parent there are some leadership skills there that you don't get in college so um you know and I I know all of that so but having some um listing of either things they've been engaged and involved in things that have been important to them for in the community. I mean, it can be worded in ways other than a resume, but and maybe that's another question, community engagement and involvement outside of school district stuff. So, just an indicator of of interests beyond, you know, based on life's engagements might be a better way to put it. So, a life engagement document, not a resume if we want. And I would still I would still advocate for that. >> Okay. So, your recyc Well, change whatever word so it doesn't come out with a dog a stigma to it. Okay. >> You know, I don't want a stigma attached to it. I'm looking for information here. >> Okay. So, have you read the other questions to say the information that I need is already in some of these questions? >> Not really. Some I mean, I guess maybe item 10 could almost be a resume, right? Or bits and pieces of it. >> Education, work experience, and other activities that have prepared you to be an effective school board member. That pretty much covers it. Okay, we're good. We're good. Can question 12 and use question 10. >> Can they have the option of attaching a resume if they'd like to? >> I'm not going to stop them, but >> I mean, we could ask them if they'd like to attach something else. They can attach it or is that not going to be allowed? >> You have to put it in form. >> We think we have to have the same thing everybody. Okay. So, so I have a clarified question. So, could some of that be turned into the questions that we ask them when we interview them? >> Absolutely. >> Like with what Helen was saying. >> That's it. >> And actually, that's the point I was just going to make. I do think one of these questions ought to go to what they think the various attributes of, you know, qualities and attributes of school should possess and if they feel like that they possess them, you know, um, and that maybe that hopefully can get at it, you know, but I uh I was just thinking that same thing. So, thank you for asking. >> So, let's not discuss the questions for the interview here. Please email them to me or to me and director long, but no more than that because we don't want to violate any rules. Okay. So, we'll take the we'll get the application out there starting on the 23rd minus question number 12. Superintendent Donald, I'm just seeking clarification. Okay. All right. So, is everyone okay with the press release draft? any changes anyone would like on that? And otherwise, we're good. That will be going out on October 23rd. If you haven't read it, I will give you a minute. >> But we got it in the mail. >> Yep. Yep. So, if there's no changes, great. Just want to get direction on that. So, we will be ready to get that out to communicate that widely. We'll also um work with our schools to make sure that that's part of their newsletters and information, but we'll get it out to families and then figure out obviously through social media and whatnot, but maybe we can work with the newspaper and see what we can do to get a broader so-called communications work on that. My next clarification as I look at the timeline, so we post that on the 23rd, two weeks then would be the November 6 timeline. Um, and it says applications are due by 5:00 PM. So, we'll make sure that that is very clear to people. And then on November 17th is when the board will finalize interview questions. So, again, just wondering about thinking about that process because to your point, you'll want to make sure that um that you're not >> Yeah. Don't wait till the 17th to get us. So, they'll get questions to you. The two of you will finalize this week >> and the two of you will finalize those questions. And then lastly, November 20th is the interview date. So that will need to be an additional hold. Is that accurate? >> Yes. For anybody that can't make the 20th, tell us now because then we have to find an alternate date. >> It's a new date. a new date because it's going to I mean if an interview takes 20 minutes and then we have some deliberation talking time it's going to be a full meeting and then that night we will decide and we will have a special meeting called to order to take the vote on that candidate because we're not going to like decide and then send everybody home and then announce it another day. So that night we will do the interviews, we will decide, we will contact all of the applicants and tell them one way or another and then we will convene a meeting to actually do the vote and um make it official. So depending on the number of applicants, we'll figure out what time to post that special business meeting for. The interviews won't be public, but the special business meeting obviously when we vote on that will be public. So, just to clarify, this is a Thursday evening and 6:00. >> I'm thinking 5:00 does not work for everybody. >> I just want to make sure there >> Thank you. 6 o' go ahead and get a calendar invite out to everyone, please. Thank you. Okay, I think we have exhausted this discussion. Does anybody have anything else they want to bring up or say about the board vacancy and filling in at this time? Seeing no hands, we're going to move on to the operational performance oversight and organizational direction. Um, this is an application for the cooperative uh between Armstrong and Cooper Boys Lacrosse. Executive Director Williams. >> Oh, yes. This is just a um not action tonight. It's just a discussion around um the coop cooperating for Armstrong and Cooper boys lacrosse. Over the last couple years, uh we've seen a decline at both Armstrong and Cooper in participation for lacrosse. Um at Cooper, it's really hard for us to even field a team um with under 10 athletes. And Armstrong uh you know, we have last year had 33 athletes, which was down from 44 the previous year. um which once again makes it hard for us to to feel dependent levels and for us conference wanted to bring bring it forward uh today if there's any questions. Um but we'd like to seek a co-op which will take place spring of 2026. >> So this year they're still playing. Got it. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Any questions on this? This is the time to ask questions because at our next meeting we will be voting on this. >> Correct. >> Correct. No questions. Everybody gets it. Director, >> I know it's been a no cut board. Does that is that going to change it? I'm just curious. >> Uh not what you know, unless we see a boom in participation. I doubt that we still would be cutting. We can always add a level. Um cuz right now, like I said, we we're barely filling two levels. So we could some you could go to three levels but really we'd hope to just get two solid levels. >> Thank you. >> Any idea for the decrease >> um feeder system? You know uh there's not a real strong feeder system. We don't have no school across like there's not school across. Um we have looked for we have received funding to provide lacrosse equipment at the elementary level through a activities grant you know. So that's something we've been providing, but there's not a real feeding system. And it's not just in Robinsville where you see that decrease for lacrosse. It's not really a one of the most popular sports nowadays. So >> is it included, do you know, in any of the various cities parks and wrecks offerings? >> Um, there is some I know there are there is a a youth lacrosse league. Um, I'm not sure what their numbers are. >> Okay, >> great. Thank you. >> All right, no more questions. Thank you. We'll see you at the next meeting to talk about that then. Thank you. All right. I believe vision 2030 SOD work plan presentation of phase one. Dr. Styles. >> Excellent. Thank you very much. Um I just want to draw your attention to the new packet of materials that you received this evening um that you can add to the binders that you received last time. Um there was a request made by a board member to ensure that we have strategic plan uh in the folder. So um we've got on the front side mission, vision, values, our priorities grounded in equity and then on the back side the strategic um themes as well as the priority work uh for that. So that is a document you all have in front of you. Um another request was to ensure that we had our equity magnifier as part of this. So, just as we're working through this, as the board is working through this process, ensuring that we're centering equity in all of our decisions, there's some key questions that board members, it may be helpful for you to consider throughout the discussion um and to make sure that uh that those have all been paid attention to. Um there's also some responses during the study session last Monday night. Uh there were some questions um uh around additional capacity of some of the buildings that we didn't have in the school building. So um Crystal Learning Center, the warehouse, the ESC, we've got that capacity for you. Um, we also had questions from board members about what's some of the additional capacity that we'll need for some of the program for the adult programming for the community education offices, Robbinsdale Transition Center, High View, and Robbinsdale Virtual Academy. So, we want to be sure to give you an indication of the spaces that we need as we're thinking about those programs. There was a question, I think, director who you had asked about uh residents by neighborhood. So, we have maps of that and then uh Dr. McDow will talk us through that as well. But those maps are in your packet as well. Um there were some questions about um staffing model. Um and just so you know, we're in the process right now of reviewing our base staffing model, our service model from last year. Um and to determine where there may be gaps and how we continue to move forward the staffing. So once decisions are made, we're really clear and able to discuss with um staff and administrators the process uh once site consolidation takes place. There was also a question on the back side of the document um about the Minneapolis students receiving transportation. So we wanted to get those numbers and that data to you. Um there was a question posed about Sunny Hollow. Um so the information that we were able to find at this point is there. we can continue to look. Um, but you can see that there were changes made to that. We wanted to address that question. And the last question was specifically around um, Robin Stale Spanish School and if their programming was the same as others. So, just wanted to be sure that you had all of that information um, from as a followup from last Monday. You'll also see some additional uh some additional data around um uh that goes along with those those new heat maps that Dr. McDow will talk about. And I think with that that is the new information in the packet along with um the uh presentation. So with that uh the next slide I'm just going to take us through a couple slides and then hand this off to Dr. McDow. We want to remind you of the short-term timeline and where we are this evening. You've seen this multiple times and we're going to continue to progress through the sk the timeline and the schedule that we have given you. Um so again tonight is the place we'll be talking about some of the criteria as well as some of the options that are being considered. On the next slide, you'll see that same information in a bit more detail um out of a visual. And we're just taking off the dates that you've already gone through. So, you've already gone from September 23rd when the initial vision team recommendations were made to two study sessions and this is the third time now we've come together um as we continue to talk about the phase one recommendations um this evening. And you can see again how this lays out over the course of the next several weeks, multiple meetings, making sure that board members have enough time for all of their questions to be answered for all of the information to be gathered um so that you feel confident once you're in a position to to make decisions. The next slide just takes us into that extended timeline. Again, while the full package of all of this is a multi-phase approach, we're still in the phase one, and you can see that highlighted piece this evening around statutory operating plan and reducing the footprint uh through building consolidation um is what we'll be talking about this evening. There any questions, board members, on the timeline, the process of this right now? Okay. And with that, Dr. Dell, I am going to hand it over to you. Thank you very much. >> Sure. >> So, um, just some housekeeping things. What we changed up for you as a board tonight, if you haven't seen everything, you've got the presentation that Dr. Stall has started to go through is in paper form for you. Um, and we're going to keep following that. Um, however, before I begin the next slide, I want to jump back to what Dr. Stall uh spoke to, which was this sheet and these heat maps because we had a question last meeting. The question was, at least as we understood it, are we able to uh use heat maps to discover which students are available inside of a school boundary? So the available students compared with the number of students who actually attend the school that's in that boundary. So these two sheets, this sheet and these heat maps work in conjunction with one another. So on this sheet you will see name of the school. Second column will be the students who are available and what I'm going to draw your attention to is the first seed map which is forest. So the first line is for us. The first heat map is for us. You'll see that in that first column it says there are 16 or 615 students available. You'll also see that at the top of the heat map it says 615. That's just kind of keep you grounded in it because then what you'll see in the second column is that there's then 352 students from that boundary that attend that school. Does that make sense? Does that answer your question? Yes, please. >> Okay. So then what I've done is for all the other buildings the exact same thing. You can go down the list. the heat maps correspond to that. And then just so that you have some information in the same place on the far right of the sheet, you'll see that I've included the October one enrollment for that building this year and then what the current capacity is of that building. So again, you can read across for us. We know that there's 615 kids that are available. We have 352 that are in that school building in that attendance area. 50% 57% capture rate. The enrollment was actually 424 of this past October. And the capacity of that building is 71 students. So it should hopefully give you a little bit of a a chunk of information as you're digesting all the different elementary sizes. Yeah. >> Well, we have this nice little sheet and your packet continues and it uses abbreviations. Can you just go through which build? Some of them are pretty clear, but >> yes, >> I absolutely can. Let me get through that page so I can get your abbreviations. So, LV is late. S O E is saw. E N E is le and N O E is noble. All right. If there's no other questions with this piece of information, I'm going to take us right into then the presentation. >> Any other questions on this discussion? >> Couple slides from last time. Then um for for everyone here, for the community, why are we talking consolidation for 2627? It really is to reduce our footprints in align with the enrollment reality and the projected enrollment as we foresee in the future. The second piece is that building operations are a major financial piece of how we work out our statutory operating debt plan. What we have to try and balance are really two filters of how do we create a solution that is both efficient but doesn't lose the effectiveness of what we want and keeps equity as a we also have to answer the question is what we're doing not just desirable but is it also feasible can we pull it off and is it sustainable can we regardless of what happens with a future referendum or not can we sustain that footprint We've talked about our guiding change a few times. This is the guiding change that as an administrative team we've been using to try and get a couple uh initial options on the table for you. And then finally, those options right now really are in the primary decision points. So this is decisions around using building capacities, utilization rates, enrollment, operational cost, building conditions and locations primarily and then that dovtales into those secondary uh decision points but we start with the primary. So some information um and board you have this in front of you. All right, I'll walk through the slide uh as we have public and everyone um trying to get a handle on on where we're going with the conversation. So, if we consider our elementary buildings, our non-magnet enrollment is right around 2,689 students, which suggests without anything else considered that we should have five to six elementary schools. Lake View, Stonison, Neil, and Noble all have a capacity of at least 500 students. So they some have more but at least 500. Yet they enroll 228 to 280 students each. Each of those elementary schools therefore captures less than 50% of students living in their boundaries. back to the heat maps that I shared. And each of these buildings was built between 1953 and 1964. Sonos and Neil have the most facility needs. So condition needs of the non-magnet schools while Lake View and Noble have some of the least needs from a condition point of view. RSI Brainsdale Spanish immersion while it's a magnet school has the same facility condition needs as Neil does. So it's actually in the same conditional position as Sonos and Neil. We talked a little bit about that last time. Then if we look from a location standpoint, there is a need for a non-magnet elementary school to support the southeast corner. And this is from our perspective as we're looking at stuff. And lastly, Susan, Neil, and Noble have sites that are all conducive to future sustainability. Lake View is very limited. It's a small footprint. It's a small geographic footprint around the building. The other buildings you can you can foresee some either adding on to buildings, using the land for some other things that have come up in weather conversation. So these are some of the things that we are considering right now going into uh the options we're going to present. The next slide is really about element or middle school considerations. middle school. We have a non-magnet enrollment of 1626 which suggests 1 to two middle school in addition to the students that are at the capacity and enrollment. Robinville Middle School has a capacity of approximately 1,600 Plymouth Middle School 1290 Samber Middle School 1500. If you look at their enrollments respectively, they're at 571, 749, and 306. That's where you see number one, when we when we have an enrollment of 1,600. We really only need one or two middle schools when you're not considering anything else. The current utilization rates, therefore, 36%, 60%, 41%, and that 41% um it should say SMS, not RMS. my mistake. Please note that in your beside that that is inclusive of high view in that building at San B. Currently there's 237 students that enroll at Plymouth Middle School and are a part of the Spanish programming and those facilities were built in 1956, 1958 and 1967. Of all the buildings, all the buildings, not just middle school, Robinale Middle School has the most facilities. Significantly, the most facilities from national fair crystal, while it's a magnet school, has a utilization rate of only 73%. We've talked about that a little bit. There's one uh one pod in there that is used for different programming, but that's why you get the 73% because it's not at the same programming rate. And then from a location standpoint, there needs to be at least one middle school somewhat centrally located based on all where all the other schools. It should not go unnoticed that the Robinsdale Middle School site provides a significant option for future configurations. It's a it's a really big piece of land. It's a great location. It really could provide some optimal future reconiguration. Any questions on those two slides? to provide some background information. I'm just still wondering about how we're going to keep small class sizes. >> So, all of the again, as I said last time, as a as a board, you would have to decide differences in that. Um the considerations we are utilizing to make recommendations are based on our current programming which would mean the current class size staffing ratios >> which would be at the cap right >> the maximum would be at the cap. Uh so that's why when you look at consolidation of buildings, you really don't want to go any smaller than you have to because you don't want to not leave yourself any room for growth or expansion should that happen. And I think I mentioned that last time. You have bubble classes that come through in the elementary. You got to have space for that. Uh we have special education programming. You got to have spaces for that. um we might have programming changes we have to anticipate to the best of our ability that type of stuff. Our secondary buildings are already they already get configured at an 80% utilization rate because again the secondary buildings different than elementary school don't have kids all in the same place all at the same time question. >> Yeah. So when you're talking about utilization, are you also including um space for like therapists or counselors or the various ancillary items that kids need beyond their classroom space? Or is this just or is this class ratios to class rooms without thought for other services that we provide in the elementary school or any of the buildings? When we do these utilization rates in this manner, we are talking classroom space to student space >> and nothing else >> and nothing else at that point. >> Thank you. That clarifies >> I just want to make sure on number five uh that's Son Elementary and Noble I mean Neil rather number five. >> Mhm. >> I just want you know these acronyms you know. >> Yes. Johnson and Neil are the first two and then Lake View and facilities. >> And we need a key on here like you were talking about last time, Director Massie. >> I'm sorry. >> We need a key on here like you were talking about at our last meeting. >> Keys are helpful. I mean, you know, I mean, really, they can absolutely do that. >> Well, this reason why she But um I [Music] here. >> Yes. So, um I I guess I am thinking too um I would imagine we may see this information come back to us again uh in a future presentation. and no hurry. But as you bring it back to us for a different purpose, you may want to tell us some different things as you bring it back to the extent that um the information you've already provided to us that talks about the current level of um utilization of the building overall. It's on a different map. there's a way that that can be plotted together um with the other data tables when they're helpful. So, you know, as you think about that question and you go forward, part of a way that it works best to kind of express that to um as you we've talked about that before, but it was in a different presentation and a different data. So to the extent that all of the data is in one spot so you can compare apples to apples and oranges to you know whatever that's that really is helpful so you don't have to find a bunch of different documents you know you can really really focus on it at one time but no rush I'm sure you're going to share this with us us again so we'll be you know looking forward to it so thank you that is not too much that we Okay, I'll move on. So before we get into the first two initial options, uh really this is a high level overview. From our perspective, the options are to reduce the elementary footprint to five to six non- mega elementary schools to reduce the middle school footprint to one to two non- mega middle schools. Both scenarios we're going to share tonight would remove Robinsville Middle School from the portfolio. >> We would >> we would keep the site. The school would just be taken off off [Music] >> we would remove the ESC building, this building from the portfolio and move staff to another site or sites and we would relocate the community office space to CLC and run out that lease. So I say these things just to give you an idea because the slides I'm going to show next are uh graphic slides and so there's a lot of moving parts going on. So just so you have this to look at as you're seeing stuff on the screen uh these things won't change in the option >> and I just want to state for the record again options a starting point for conversations with the board. We had to start someplace with you all. No decisions have been made. So, I know for a lot of people in this room and for a lot of people watching, they're going to see something on a screen and believe this is to be so. It's not the case. It's only October 20th and we've got a road ahead of us. So, your questions, your comments, the ideas, that's where we are right now. Long questions. Oh, I just wanted you to spell out what you mean by non-magnet. >> So, >> exactly what are you saying about our non-magnets or Yeah. about our magnet in schools? >> So, at the last meeting and what I spoke to was that our our plans had no we had no plans to change mag our current magnet schools. So, the schools we're talking about here are non-magnet schools. 42627. >> So the three magnet schools at the elementary would be C, >> Pilgrim Lane and RSI. >> And then the for the middle school and >> Fairrystal >> that would not be correct touched for 2627. We did say though they we did say there's the possibility they could be in different buildings but that we would be looking at site consolidation for 26 27 but in to come there might be changes to that. Correct. And that's we've got to remember get us to the site consolidation the planning for 2627 so we can complete the statutory operating debt plan. At that point in January we start looking again at vision forward um for how to continue to make um our district what we need it to be. All right. So in the first option I will walk through the different. In the first option lake view would be split to Northport and to N. So essentially what happens is uh Lake View would no long we would still have Lake View as a building but it would not function as an elementary school. The students would be split depending upon uh their address to Northport. The second move would be Neil moving to Sonos or Son moving to Neil. Those are two similarly sized buildings. Um it would simply be the decision there is which which building do we want to keep with the students in it and which might we use for something else. There is an option where RSI could move to the building that wasn't being used. So for example if Sison students move to Neil you could potentially move Robinale Spanish immersion to Sonos. it would be more likely because of capacity that Neil would be the place it would need to go because of the number of students. Uh technically right now and we would have to do more detail on that. Um but technically RSI as of today could fit into Neil for sure. The next move, Rossdale Middle School would move to Samberg Middle School. Right now, we're thinking that RDA would run out of Armstrong and that High View would move to Lake View Elementary. It could also move to SSON. It could also move to Neil depending upon which one was open. And then as we said in the previous slide, we would move the ESC service center with High View in this case to Lake View Elementary and then community at offices would move up to the CLC building. So in this option, we would still own the property, but Robinsdale Middle School would be offline, ESC, this building would be offline. and one of the three elementary schools either Sonos Neil or RSI buildings would be offline. Um when you talk about um moving the functions of this building that includes like the print shop and all that too because that's >> it would it would be so as an example when we go through all these options it the first phase is for us to get a a sandbox around okay what buildings are we comfortable with doing this. The next phase will be because we've kind of scoped out at a very high level. Will all of this whatever this is fit in this building? Technically, yes. When we get the next sandbox direction from the board, board says, "Nope, you're not touching that building no matter what." All the way up to, "Yep, go play with all of them and see what actually fits." That's when now Kristen and Meen myself really go right devel this fit here for sure, will this fit here for sure and come back. Those are part of the reasons why we have to stage these conversations starting today. again making no decisions but starting today so we can get that sandbox going so that by the end the tail end of November we can make a decision because it's going to take time to really dig in and come back to you and say okay we can do this but to your question we may not be able to bring the print shop with us the print shop might have to go here if we do that So um I think it probably will be in uh phase two the next phase the next step but uh since early on we heard the proposal about new bill no new bill considerations are here and new bills with regard to a new elementary facility uh and the sighting of get should we go thereass elementary or the magnet district? I think it's a very >> I think it's back to your question you asked several meetings ago >> as we as we blend right as we blend and I think that while we're thinking about 26 27 right now >> those type of questions are ending up in the foreshadowing right okay what if if we do this then what's a potential possibility what's a potential possibility because whatever we decide for 2627 we have to be able to sustain that if we don't get the funding because right now the only funding we have is to replace like for like uh we don't have money dollars to do additions to or improvements of it's like for like >> sure >> however we also don't want to short change ourselves or create unintentional additional moves of kids should we get to a position where we the community says yes, we're willing to approve or go forward. >> And and theoretically some of that movement you just foreshadowed potentially with these closures, let's just use them for a perfect example. If that were to happen with some of these some of the moves you've talked about already, that could be sustained bond or not is what I think you're thinking. However, if gone for something new was to be on the table, then the some of this configuration could then fit into that. >> Yeah, absolutely. That's where um I'll click through because I click through all that's where these secondary decision points on this slide start to overlap. >> You're exactly right. >> I thank you question. >> Yeah. So, you had mentioned RSI could fit into possibly two buildings with where it is right now. Does RSI right now have a wait list at all? Students waiting to get in there? >> I don't I don't have the answer off top of my head right now. RSI >> cuz I'm just thinking back. I know when it moved into the building that it's currently in, it outgrew that building. So, I'm just wondering if it has a weight list currently, do we need to plan for that kind of growth or not? >> You can check on the weight list. I didn't >> we can check on the weight list, but to the best of my recall, um, if there is any significant weight list, it would be kindergarten. um the other grades whether people have made different decisions because as they go on and it's you know more of a specialized program um they there might be a few people but it's not significant once you get past the kindergarten maybe first grade level. >> Okay. So do we see any potential growth then if kindergarten teachers have >> if we add a kindergarten section then it'll be >> then it will grow into Yeah, it would grow into >> So what I what I would add to that or bring it back to is that is the re that's one of the reasons why the number three for our size in purple. >> Yes, >> we we could move it to a place that it fits. even staying where it's at, unless we had a referendum to add on to, we don't have a place bigger for it uh in this in this move where it could grow into at an elementary building. And the reason for moving it would simply be a decision uh back to condition. Does it make more sense to keep RSI in play as RSI or do you move it to Neil that has less condition needs something to consider. >> I think the biggest challenge when when looking at this is in absence of what does the future design of the program look like? That's the hard part, right? Um because right now we are focused on 26 27 with keeping in mind what we can reimagine our dale to look like. And so um you know is it is RSI and this came up with the uh vision committee presentation. Is it a is it a K five? Is it a is it a through 8th grade? Is it I mean that's a conversation that I'm presumably the board will have as we move forward. We're just trying to make sure we whatever we do, we can achieve financial the best the most financial efficiency as possible just for 2627 without locking us into future programming decisions without you actually having the opportunity to make those to have those conversations. Okay. So the second option we have for tonight is the starting option. In this option, Noble splits between Sison and Lake. First move Neil also goes to Son. Same thing this one. RSI goes to Neil. We just called that out in this one, but you would you would have the same situation as we just got done discussing. Promis Middle School to Samberg RBA to Armstrong High School. High view goes to Neo >> Noble, >> I'm sorry, Noble, ESC goes to Noble and the community offices go to CLC. So in this option, Robville Middle is offline offline and potentially RSI off. >> We should say Sunny Hall. >> Yeah, just to not technically >> not to confuse the programming with the building. >> So just a couple questions. Um, one just curious why RVA going to AHS when I think I remember I don't have my binder from last time here but that Armstrong was at 102% capacity and Cooper's not um at above above capacity. So I was just curious about that. Um and then well I'll let you answer that. >> Yeah. Well in reality RBA can theoretically be anyone. Um we there's these options we put it with Armstrong High School for the time being. Uh the RDA students currently on Wednesdays come in to High View. Uh Armstrong would have the ability to do that. We we've gone back and forth with that one because part of it is we we've got students that choose RVA because they don't want to go back to the high school. Um, and so maybe that's not the best place. >> Um, no different than anything else. When we come up with the options, we come up with them at this point in time and then you're sitting there thinking about it. You go, well, what about this and this? At the time that we came up with this option, the previous option, the thought was, let's have RVA go to Armstrong. We know they could handle it if they needed to go there one day a week. It's online the rest of the time >> and it wouldn't have to. >> Yeah. Just to about to Bob's point, we had this conversation 3 hours ago. It wouldn't have to be separated from hiding. Um, and then my other question just was it would save us more money if it was separated from or staffing. It I should say that it potentially could because if you have students that are taking an online option and I'm I'm really going rogue. I believe there are more arms. Oh gosh, I'm in trouble. My hypothesis right in this moment is that Armstrong has there's more students maybe coming from there. Um, and with staffing considerations if it's not a full-time choice for those students. um are they already receiving programming in that particular high school building and therefore supervision like your supervision everything's already built in to being an online model for various classes throughout the day where they're still in attendance in a particular building. I think that was at least initially why it was looked at as that way. But true, it can go anywhere. But if there's more Armstrong students attending and they're not being full-time online, that would be a good reason why. And it's staffing and supervision. Then >> my other question was just um I know one of the big things in all the transition and change for folks is that losing their community, their school community. And both of these options have splitting a school. And I assume that there wasn't, but I'm just going to ask for the sake of just clarity. Is there was there any possibility or any option where we wouldn't be splitting up a school community? um just some of the other options that question >> because I I know that for for folks that's going to be you know because moving a whole school to another building is different than being split up from from your you know the people that you're you built community with over the years. I can say that there was conversation specific to RSI about to your point like the cohort, right? Like these students are with with their classmates and so whatever build whatever building they're still with their classmates. The challenge you get when you start looking at 26 27 and those decisions stay in those decisions regardless of what happens moving forward. If if you don't look at potentially splitting one, the impact of future decisions might actually give you more transition for those students than moving them all together and then having to split them up later into true boundary changes depending on what happens with building decisions moving forward. And with this option one and option two in the elementary buildings, is there room for early childhood? in all of the buildings when we're moving. >> Yes. >> Other schools in >> to the question to the splitting splitting lake view was intentional because of highway 100. That that was the rationale there. Right, wrong or indifferent? That was the >> cross >> cross water. It it allowed for that. Noble in this one. Noble would all fit in Neil. You could take that building and combine it into Neil. You wouldn't necessarily have to move kids up to Lake View. So just to answer your question, there are some scenarios where you could you could take the smaller schools and they would there's multiple schools that because Neil is Neil's got a capacity of over 700 kids. Uh so so the simple answer is yes. without considering other stuff. you you could >> there is also an open enrollment component too when you're looking at this to say I mean back to the the the residents within those attendance areas but are they where else are they drawing from and then the distance of which you're moving them >> so um I think that was a good question I think my assumption, but you're going to go back and think about that question across the board again. So, I mean, I answer right now, but I think it's a good question. Um, so my question has to do with a couple things. One is the bus garage if BSC is offline, and you know, we've had challenges with that for 20 years, not longer, and they're not going away. So at some point when the plan comes back for the all the properties that are offline the plan for managing the real estate because of course as you know that's a board decision along with the administration about selling property and uh so and then to what end you know and uh so I think that um when we come back with another plan uh you know at some point and prepare to go forward having a companion maybe some options or thoughts about what what that might be with the with the land would be helpful so we can envision what the choices and options might be um because I think that that uh that goes hand in hand you know what what's the best choice what's the best direction type thing so I a question was asked about I was thinking about c offices to um the learning center and so then which goes to the new hope learning center then I don't see that on here but um I'm assuming that the students who are currently enrolled there can go will go to other facilities >> they will or will not I don't see that mentioned >> no for 2627 New Hope Learning Center we didn't do anything with it >> okay so that stays the same I didn't see it here so I was >> okay >> director B I also just wanted to to let you No. Um, and again doesn't fully answer your question, but the ENC where the where this building is and the bus garage, it's two parcels. It's broken into two parcels, right? >> It is. I do know that. >> Yeah, I did know the whole public didn't. I just wanted to address that. So, we could maintain if we needed and wanted to maintain um bus garage, we could do that and then get rid of this. >> However, the bus garage has a whole bunch of problems as you know. It does. >> So, >> but that's a bigger conversation, >> bigger conversation, future conversation. I just just want to have it in the consciousness and then have some uh forecasting when we come back to that conversation because that's going to be part of the next iteration, >> the next round. Yes. Terren, just one other thing I just pointing out um the last time we tried to move High View, it was a huge political issue because um because moving those kids became a real issue. Nobody wanted those kids in their neighborhood. And so I just wanted to put that out there that if you're moving them to what was an elementary building, that may become an issue. Um they were supposed to move into the lane building and We did not want those kids there. And I'm saying that in quotation marks because that is not how I view children who have alternative learning needs. I was very upset and um disappointed in my community that I live in that they reacted that way. But um but that was the reaction of the community and so they wound up staying at Sanford for that reason. So, I just want to put that out there that that may be um >> Did you pick it up? We're having trouble hearing. >> Oh, yeah. Just that the community um did not in uh in and around Pilgrim Lane did not want to have um alternative high school students um in their neighborhood. Um which I think is a shame because they're just high school kids who learn differently, but they rejected having them there. So, just wanted to put that out there that that could be a political issue. Um, frankly, my experience with them, working in the same building with them, is that they are wonderful young people and uh, I enjoyed every minute that I was in the same building with them. But just want to put that out there that that could be mixing ages, age groups, >> some discussion about there was some discussion about mixing age groups at that time, you know, elementary and some of the high that that was part of the conversation. >> Maybe you didn't hear that part, but that was part of the whole range of that whole conversation. So I mean I mean so I know that there was a lot of push back but I just wanted to share that with you that there also was some consideration about having elementary that was before it was going to be an elementary school. >> I'm just all I'm saying is that that was part of the conversation. That's that's my only point. >> Dr. Long. So, I'm just wondering about the cost to like if we move this building to an elementary school, what's could be the cost in changing things, you know, bathroom facilities, classroom into office spaces. Yeah, we don't have a price tag. Now, the com the brief conversations we've had because we of course wanted to bring it here is we know there would need to be some things, but we really believe it could be very minimal, especially in the the near future. Um, you know, there'd be plenty of space, so we could split some classrooms. Obviously, we'd need some cubicle spaces, things like that. Some of the classrooms may just be without doing a lot of construction because again if we can't say that that move is a permanent move from you know forever in law or forever forward and we don't have any funds for construction we would do a lot how realistic that is marine there'd be some things we'd have to do I recognize. Yeah, to your point restroom >> and I think it becomes for this building it becomes that's part of the question. The other question is what's the cost of keeping this building running versus figuring out a different solution for this building especially when there's the potential of selling this. So it's it's a it's not just a one question question. It's a multiple layer question. And what is the net result and what is the potential long-term result? Because what happens in consolidations is and correct me if I say this incorrectly is you don't necessarily see all of your savings in the first year. You see it in the second year, in the third year. And it's a compounding piece, which is why it's it's got to be really strategic. And it goes back to I'll use the the high view question in any of these. High view needs to have a different home, whatever that is, because we need the space at Sanber. So the strategic decision is we have to create space at Sandberg if the Brownsale Middle School move is there which means High View has to have a home somewhere. So where will that be? And in our estimation we think High View should move with the ESC at this point. That makes the most sense. So, as you're considering looking, we we're at that spot we were last time, right? This is a meeting of non-closure again. However, it's also the point of of the meeting where it's ask us like we did last time, what more information would be helpful? I know a couple people have taken some notes here. a couple where I said it, but in your viewing of what we presented as of tonight, is there any additional information that would be helpful for us to get to you? >> Dr. McDall, can I clarify something? So, Director Hildbrand brought up a question about in one of the scenarios Noble, would it fit for Noble and Neil to fit inside of Sonison with Sonson's current enrollment? >> Yes. >> Okay. So Noble wouldn't have to be split necessarily between Sonos and [Music] >> I got to double check that. >> I got to check. >> I'm not sure. I don't think they can. >> Was that the one? >> And then there's Yeah, I don't I don't know that they can. And then there's also the consideration that you're leaving that bottom quadrant >> without an elementary school. >> Yeah. And >> you know, I was just say, and it's a good point, too, because then when you look at I also thought of the busing Yeah. >> piece of that. That's an awfully long way to kids. >> And I think that's part of the as as Dr. McDall said the digging deeper as we continue to to get closer or get options that you want us to look into more um because of your comment about what about some of these office spaces? What about centerbased special education programming which impacts capacity? So those are some of the deeper dives once we get to a place where you say, "Hey, is this viable? Can we put those three buildings there? What's that look like?" So, superintendent. So, I'm not on director's question. Um, I think that as the team goes back and looks at looks at all of this geog geography, I think also demographics, I'm I'm not a fan of social engineering. That's that's not my thing. People live where they live. However, we don't want to ex exacerbate anything. And in addition to that, I think you mentioned or somebody mentioned um future if we do this then that down the road, you may end up having to do it anyway. >> You might. >> So I think that I I so I I just the same work and energy you put into this and was able to come back and give us some here's kind of what our best guesses are, that's the wisest route for me. uh if you do that because my assumption should you be able to get all of that because the transportation will come into it the the demographics will come into it the zip codes and where people live and I think it's a valid question to ask about split if you can't help it what do you do but uh but parents will choose with their own feet you know I don't think we need to try to be choosing for you know and we certainly not going to be trying to social engineering people live where they live so Yeah, just to confirm you can't fit you can't fit all of you cannot fit all noble. >> It does bring a good question. I is it possible for next time to have an estimate of what this would do in terms of the demographics? Um, >> I suppose most of them would be the same because you're just shifting programs, but >> the one that would the one that would potentially shift would be an option. >> Yeah, the which one? >> Option one. >> Option one, you could see a potential shift when you split Lake View up into Northport depending, but a lot of it depends upon them boundaries. Um to actually you'd have to have the boundary map redrawn boundary to really see which addresses uh match. >> Sorry, is it okay you're focus >> because Lake View is also one of our bigger schools with an um registration from Minneapolis, right? has >> guess it's it's 32 >> and they are with our recent change with this year's change in transportation that's not not to be presumptive but that's where the transportation goes for depending on the zip the code you're going to. So, I don't know how much is it. Is it a choice to a building or that's I want your district >> and I will take where the bus brings me. I was just looking cuz Noble's 53 and I was just thinking either way it's disrupting that >> but it's also in terms of percentage of overall students not hugely disrupting. And that's where that location piece comes in. In addition to location and then sustainability of the site regardless of what's next. Um, and how do you how do you navigate what's the least potential risk? That's why that first round of heat maps was really important. We even before we got them, we had some assumptions about neighborhood schools or where students were were living and attending the school and the heat maps just showed us some different information. I was wondering if there it would be possible to get some information about busing and what that busing and what that might entail for some of the bus routes with some of these options. >> Just one more quick question just yeah just for future information you don't have to answer it now. >> Yes, I will try. There's the challenge is is there's there's a significant amount of choices that still remain that make it like if it could just even sort of get narrowed down a little bit that helps because that's a lot of options that are still on the table right now. And then the other thing I'm wondering too about uh like public transportation bus routes for moving I view you know some of those students might want to access public transportation to get to school and are what are how close are these different sites to that possibly my one quick question with Lake View. If we're looking at splitting Lake View, seems to me then we're not doing IB next year, especially if we split it. But if we're not like is it off the table all together? I just want to understand the parameters. >> I think that's a um great question and discussion, you know, especially if we're if if the direction is Lake View and RMS going offline, right? >> Those are those are two IB theaters. Doesn't mean we would have to do anything immediately different with Cooper, but it' be part of the conversation for sure >> and it folds into right that part of the conversation that isn't just facilities for our statuto operating debt plan. There's a piece of this that's coming that that is going to have to be figured out that goes along with statuto operating debt that is a bill. It's programming. That's >> what aren't we going to spend money on that can be a part of that statuto operating debt plan year one, year two, year three, year four, year five. >> Yes. >> I'm going to have somebody else be typing that way. So um so the other thing too is that the the whole purpose of having magnet schools is to magnetize people come to schools. So depending on what the program offering is the strength of the program and you just said that you're going to be factoring that and thinking about that as we go forward. Talk about the statuto operating debt planning the program that goes into it because that is a factor. you abandon the magnets and you split all the schools and I'm talking about even at the local level and one of the questions that I have posed and I think I see it in here but I have to unpack all this is to see at every building what's special is happening in because each of the neighborhood schools have some kind of a special focus you know uh and so it may not be the magnet level but they do have you know their own ethos so understanding what that is I think is important as well and I I thought I as I was coming through and following on you. I thought I saw a little bit of that. I don't know that I saw as much as my question asked. Your question asked specifically if I recall about curriculum >> and so I wasn't I I didn't I I honestly we >> I understand it's only you know >> so what I hear your question mean so and I'm confused by it because I don't know that I could say our non-magnet elementary schools have a particular focus >> I'll give you an example for example at Noble they're very um attuned to technology or you STEM, you know, kind of an incubator STEM concept and, you know, they've come and present it. That's something that they care about and hold as a high value and and uh and program toward it. So, I I it's my belief as I've talked to different principles and people around the district that each one has their own kind of culture that they support. So, that's really my question. And so if I said curriculum, I really meant what is their what's their special sauce that they think they have in their building. And that can be a combination of programming and curriculum, but what is it? Cuz they don't I think they believe that many of them have it if not all. Uh just because they're not a magnet because I think that's a part of the of this whole equation. And I'll further say that I think that um keeping the magnet schools for the next school year the way they are and perhaps on into the future um is has you know has value because we wouldn't be having magnets if they didn't have value in my opinion. Um however the neighborhood schools are an important part of the equation. So to the extent that we're going to infuse support into the district and reimagine the district to the extent that we can really support and highlight and understand better what is offered at whatever local neighborhood school the people land at what is that what is that special sauce because I believe they all have it you know and if they don't have it what can we do to kind of juice it up a little bit you know um because I think that's just as important as saying that we're going to keep our magnet schools. It's a partnership. There's not two. Well, some people say there's two districts, but there's only one, you know, and there's only one big pot of money and so it has to be shared across the district and so in a way that really beefs up everybody. So, it's not just moving kids across the district. is actually trying to see what uh what they need, you know, and then trying to provide some of that. It's just if we're going to be doing this reimagining, I don't see any reason why we're going to talk about that as well. >> We will be that's not >> I think I think you are, but I just wanted, you know, I just want to get my little plug in. >> Yeah. to kind of go along with what director Basset is kind of saying like you know just like looking at this the two options here for me it feels like like I can just feel my emotions you know just kind of um you know knowing like I've talked to families at Lake View and how they love their principal they love their staff heard stories about how oh my kid was a weird kid you know and then like that's a whole community that we are dismantling. And that kind of gets back to the last question that I asked at at our last meeting that we had on the 13th. Like, you know, these families have relationships with the people in their school. They're their teachers. You know, um, you know, Miss Smith, I'm making it up. I don't know if Miss Smith teaches at Lake View, but you know, Miss Smith. So, what are what are they going to do when Miss Smith isn't there to be the kindergarten teacher for any of their kids coming through there again? And so, right now for me, it's just really like I can just feel it in my body, you know, and I I can hear the stories that families have told me and families that have talked to me about it. And yeah, I just I don't know. I and and I do know from being seen high view that that that was not a good place for it either. It had it smooshed in where its current location is. So yeah, I don't know right now. I'm just and so I'm really am hoping that we have some time to mull over this and it isn't like we're making uh oh, choose option one or choose option two today. But like I agree with you, Director Bass, that there is there's like something that's special about that school, where it's located, what they've created there with all of these schools. And so that just gets really, you know, >> sorry, I can just like feel my skin starting to, you know, >> Yeah, I I appreciate I appreciate you bringing that front and center. We grapple with it every time we've talked about this >> and and that's why we're sitting here. What are your ideas? What other options haven't we brought forward? Because these moves moves have to be made if if we want to continue to be sustainable as a district and you all know it and I know it and our community knows it and it doesn't make it easier at all. But we're going to have to do something. We can't keep operating the number of buildings that we're operating. And I don't want that to sound cold and have a lack of empathy because you're exactly right. We're in these schools as often as we can be and they're all amazing. So how do we get us ourselves to a better place? So, you know, I can talk. But anyway, um so, um one last thing, one last comment kind of had one thing not. So, um one of the things that we've talked about in the past is our commitment to our cities. Now, uh so the end result that we come up with, uh being mindful about the seven cities that we operate in and the families that live within those cities and the schools that feed them. So, uh, I I'm pretty sure you're already thinking about that somewhat, you know, but I just think that that's an important, you know, kind of conversation that um I hope that gets built in so we can we can talk about that or or at least f and factor it at some point. Maybe not all at the same time, but I think factoring that's in that whole location geography question because it's it's moving the schools, it's moving the families, it's moving, it's all that, but that's where all of our the people who support us. They all live in these communities and say they all have a stake, you know. So, um I'm I'm quite concerned about that as well. >> Bing. >> Yeah. my sense about uh uh if you're talking about city leadership, they see excess property of the school district is going from non-t taxable to taxable property. So, I I seriously doubt you're going to hear a mayor of any of these cities going, "Well, well, we're going to have more taxable property." So, I don't think that's going to be a problem. Um, and my other my other concern too is is that um to Director Long's point of, you know, what what happens in a community or what happens in a school and the emotional part of it, I also know that the 180 staff that had to be let go because of the financial situation that we're in uh was just as stark in all of these buildings and for all of those families And um I believe I'm hoping that with the process that we're currently using, which is to have some lead time to it, has some time to it, have the opportunity to ask the questions and include and engage the community with it, will not make the pain go away. But, you know, we're just the reality is is we're all going to have to deal. And that's unfortunate, but that is the situation that we are in at this point. So, um I'm just hoping that the dream part of it is going to sustain us. That as we reimagine and we dream, we can think really good things that should sustain us through some of the pain. Because as much as we think of our current situation as being perfect and we should never change it, many of us have been through situations in life where when we got to the other side, it was like, "Wow, this is different. This is better. This is so I don't want us to also lose sight of the dream side of it where we can actually increase equity for all students in this building to a level that's that's that I can be proud of. So um I'm going to hang on to the dream for a while and and and look for what we can build in to what we have. So I'm wondering why are we taking New Hope offline and moving them into the elementaryaries? Is isn't new early childhood right now? >> Early childhood family child family education special early childhood special education >> and it's more than just VPK, right? It's more than just preschool because they serve families from birth through, right? So, you know, some of it doesn't make sense to live within a a K5 school or preK5 school because they serve students from 33 months, you know, and above. >> And a lot of that's the staffing efficiencies as well with some of those early childhood special education programs and some of that. So again, for this first move, that wasn't that's just not being considered. Okay. Right now. >> And then I have a question about Fair Pilgrim Lane. With community moving out, does that allow for expansion at Fair Pilgrim Lane or they are they bursting at the seams there or? >> So it would allow us to do expansion. It would allow us They currently have no center-based special education programming. So it would also allow us to consider that. Um, what else have we talked about? >> Okay, that makes sense. >> Yeah. So, that was going to be my question is is there a way we can have some of the assumptions that you guys came up with when you came up with these options, right? When about highway 100, right? What other programming needs can we foresee in the future that will benefit the district? I know we sent some kids to different districts. Are there any thoughts about bringing those kids back into our district? If we have empty buildings, can we hear of some of those assumptions going forward? Sure. I think that would be very helpful >> and we certainly welcome. Right. This is a discussion. We welcome what what else because you've been thinking about this too. So what what else have you been thinking about and then we can share because we've had more than two options over the last month. We've had multiple options that we've looked at and these were two that we wanted to start with. But tell us what you're thinking. tell us what you're looking at and maybe it's something we've considered and maybe it's not something we've considered. >> Yeah. I I think I also want to offer a third perspective here that the I know the emotions that are going to come no matter what schools are closed. Right? But I want us as a community to start thinking about the ultimate goal. Right? Parents don't care about moving their kids from one part of the district to the other part if it means they are receiving the best education. Right? So there's been talks about programming already uh like the IV program. Is that really working for all schools? Right? Is it working for the kids in those schools? Right? So if those kids are going to have the opportunity to something new and bigger, then it shouldn't really matter which part of the district that program is moving into or not moving into. So I I want parents to start thinking about or the community to start thinking about some of the other opportunities that we are going to have, right? Because personally I think some of the programming that we have we need to change and this will offer us an opportunity to be able to do that. >> Did you think of >> Okay, I have a question. So if high View moves to Lake View and let's just imagine High View and RBA move to Lake View, how much of Lake View is still available? I mean, I don't know how many rooms I view View takes up or >> it would be full. >> If the two of those moved to Lake View, they'd be capacity. >> So capacity is >> combining that question with director Woodro's question. So the assumption with the lake is that it's two stories. First of all, uh the the other piece is that it has a the current entrance at Lake View uh is set up where it could be a natural uh enrollment center and then the ESC would take over one floor and there's there's another entrance on the other side of the building and High View could take the other floor, whichever that was. The other thing that happens at High View that's a little or at Lake View that's a little unique is the gym is on the second floor and the cafeteria is on the first floor. Um so that said though between ESC moving there and High View it would it has the capacity to do that. It's that's what it would unless it was added on to then at some point in the future that's all that it could do. My question was high view and RVA not >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> But but I understand there would be extra room. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> If it was high view and Harvey. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I just kind of wanted to share just like a counterpoint to that I programming. I'm not sure if we've ever really done that to its full potential here. Um I can I know in Minneapolis I worked at one um elementary school that was really into their IV programming and they took advantage of I know at um RSI how they have um I I don't know what I forget what the program is called. They have people who come from Spain and um other Spanish-sp speakaking countries um to like work with the students there. That was one of the things that this elementary school uh did is they brought in those people and they did Spanish with all of the classes. Um they would push into the rooms and it it was almost like it was I want to call it specialist by teacher language but prep like a prep provider. Sorry, that's probably the better language. A prep provider would be these Spanish speakers would come in and and immerse the kids in language. So, I don't really know that we've really fully jumped into the IB wagon. I almost feel like that, you know, when we talk about magnets or making a school special, if we really jumped into what that whole IB thing is and how what it looks like for elementary schools, I think that that could possibly be something that families could be interested in, especially with the language components that you could insert in as, you know, prep providers for students. And sorry just to add to that I'm not saying the program that just popped in my head. I mean the program by itself is designed to be a great program. It's an international program right but the way we are watering the program in our district in the two schools or the communities in which they are is not working for those kids. If we look at the data that was presented, I want to say either March or April when I first joined the board about what the ID programming was doing or given to the students. As a parent, I don't think that what the program is intended to do, right? So, it can be better. I agree with you, but is it working right now? Right. But that will be a debate for another day, I'm sure, when we get to programming. Well, and I think that's that's part of we, you know, I think it's while we're trying to keep right these 26 27 decisions intact, it's going to spill over. You know, we we are going to need to find more cost savings for the statutory operating plan than just the buildings. And so then we do start talking about programming, right? And we say, "Yep, we could continue to invest and maybe invest more in IB." Is that the biggest bang for our buck? I mean, that's part of all of these conversations. >> Director Basset. >> So, so a question I have, I'm looking at the current short-term timeline and so as I look at these next meetings coming up and so um we will continue working on phase one at the next meeting. So is the thought that some of the questions that have come up to today about phase one kind of thinking would be answered or or you know you know further looked into responded to in that meeting along with other things that you think are relevant. Is it safe to assume that we're not going to get another option on closing or might some of the questions that have been asked today influence the shift in option proposals >> potentially? >> Yeah. And we came into tonight >> um definitely thinking that there would be things that came from this discussion or you had additional things that you would want to see >> and we need you to help us help drive that. We we've given you some, but but what else are some of your thoughts or ideas? I just want to I want to be really clear that while we certainly are going to be overlapping with some of the programming, >> phase one takes us all the way through winter break into January because phase one really is this shortterm. >> What are we going to how are we going to put this cash operating debt together? >> Yep. So then some forecasting over the future because of you know as you remember I have talked about this whole notion of a new bill >> but on the whole other end on the elementary and the whole future end >> uh so is is it reasonable to think about some of that stuff >> well we can't not think about it I'm with you it's it's hard not to it's it's what gets really tricky in this because I've heard three of you now talk about we want to talk about the reimagine we want to talk about what's next. We know hard decisions are being made now. People will understand those hard decisions more if they can see the next step because the next step >> there's a huge request uh that would have to come to the community. We are on November 3rd if you recall getting some survey results that might help with saying can we continue this conversation with Ernest or does that survey tell us that there's some things that are off the >> Well, thank you for that. kind of the way that I listen try to deliberately listen to you is that um this you know so you're looking a little bit down the road but we're staying focused here but the things we talk about the things you decide we decide here are things that will be have these qualities sustainability and some other qualities and so envisioning for the future what can be >> so I'm sorry you >> no I just wanted to remind people about the survey that's going to give us some additional information about future. >> Okay. Director Brand then Bowman and then me and then mom. >> Um I wanted to just first of all say thank you because I know this isn't easy and I'm sure that there were many many iterations. Um and that's that's why I almost feel bad saying like can we do this without splitting a school? So, I I really want to say that I so much appreciate that you've actually done this with great efficiency. You're really you're taking three buildings offline and you're really hardly disrupting um individual programs. And I I know that doesn't mean much to the in the end whichever schools um if if a school does get split obviously to the individual people that are impacted it will still be a big impact and it and I understand that completely. But I I really do want to say I appreciate this really does limit either plan that you brought to us limits that and I I just want to say thank you for that. Um it you know one thing too that's pretty clear looking at these numbers is that right now um the east side of the district is just not where the kids are living right and that there's less need for schools school buildings on the east side of the district. And so, um, that's just really impacting our need to, um, and and so I, it's just interesting to see that and to see, you know, when we talk about, well, we need a school in the south, um, east corner, the question is, do we? Um, because maybe the just the population isn't there to sustain it right now. And I'm not saying get rid of the building entirely. What I'm saying is do do we need all these schools on the east side um as much as we did when they were built um based on the populations because you look at the numbers um that those schools have right now and they're just not huge because those are just older communities, right? So I'm just wondering based on that data if we really need to be focusing as much. Now, those may be the buildings that are in better condition, too. And I know it plays into that as well, and I haven't played with the whole matrix yet, but I'm just saying that I that's a question I have is that do do we really need to be as focused on that? Um, if that's really not where the kids are, just throwing that. >> Okay. Uh, Dr. Bowman. Yeah, I have a couple concerns are as we talk about um sort of that special sauce thing. You know, I really want to make sure that every single one of our schools has that special sauce that we're not we're not putting schools aside or, you know, making decisions based on, oh, we can take this programming and move it over here, but that still leaves other kids without. I'm really concerned because of our number of magnet schools versus non-magnet schools and because I've been from the east side. I'm concerned that we don't have population on the east side because this district moved to the west side 20 years ago and um you know I want to make sure that that the east side of the district is not neglected. It is one of the things that traditionally in this school district uh people moved into the city of Crystal because it gave them access to the Robinsdale school district it in a very easy way if they bought a house here and they were affordable in Crystal. Nothing's affordable now, but you know, they could buy a a a two-bedroom starter home over by Cub Food and then they were in the best district in this metropolitan area and it was a huge draw for us. But as things changed and what I heard over, you know, the years was we didn't invest in the east side of the district in my opinion and and I want to make sure that we invest equally across the district. I think that's really important. And I and I also want to make sure that when we're talking about our schools that that equal across that one school is not getting more. I mean, if we have if we have special education in one building, we should have special education in all of our buildings. and and we can't make build I will refuse to support buildings that have exclusive things that are not available to our other schools because I think that that has been a huge disservice uh demographically for us in this school district and um you know um I want parents and students to know that when they enter at the end of this whole process when they enter into a building in this district, they are getting the best hands down because I am tired of living in a world where if you have that means someone else is not going to have and that's my concern. I want to make sure that the halves are across the board and and some building is getting less because I don't know why we do that in this world. But um I don't want to see someone else suffering because we need to put this over here. That's my concern. I have another question related to Lake View. So, if Education Service Center moved to Sunny Hollow, would there be room at Sunny Hollow for um our uh that's on bus line? It's more centrally located in the district. and then late with the outline. >> So again, one of the things I would say without the data in front of me, which always makes them nervous, is again one of those criteria is um the condition. >> Yeah. >> And you maybe have the data in front of you as you're saying just don't say it stall. Is that >> That's true. >> Yeah. >> It's got a lot of needs. >> Yep. So that's right. That's the balance of it all is is >> because Lake View doesn't have a lot of needs. >> It's just not a great location >> for something so centralized to central office >> and you doesn't have the land to expand if and when that would ever happen. >> Okay. Uh director and then direct. >> Um I am wondering about so RMS has a community gym in it. What would happen with that? So there is um with the community gym and the investment that the city of Robbinsdale made at that time there is a buyout provision and we are nearing the end of that term of the community gym. So there would be a we would have the opportunity to uh exercise that bio provision. Uh I am thinking what was it 180 150 140 150 180 >> We'll get to your last. >> Yeah. 150,000 or less to exercise that option so we truly could shutter the building. >> And that would be out of capital. It would not be out of I mean it's it's a bucket thing but a dedicated um resource that we could use. So, um I I guess I I'm thinking about the demographic study we had from Hazel and I know it shifted somewhat from the years ago when she came, but one of the things that has stuck in my mind is she talked about where the growth in this district is in terms of yes, we have a lot of settled uh people who stay in their homes and I would say Robale, Crystal, Ola Valley, a lot of our communities do um up toward this east side, southside, whatever. But the fact of the matter is is that the growth is happening on that in those areas, you know, a little bit further north and east. That's where the growth is happening, demographic growth. Now, that's my impression. I I'd have to look back at the study to see if it's telling us more about trends now about where the growth is. People having babies, you know, I mean, and they're having them, you know, and and immigration. there's the combination of driver and a driving population and it's happening in those communities so they're not stagnant you know the you know so that that that's my impression so if I need a refresher go back and read it again so one of the things specific to Hazel's study um and the information that was collected when you talk about it would be change there isn't necessarily new development there isn't land that you know where new housing is is um increasing. However, in the same package um the software that we're using for the heat maps, >> there is also a a a switch in there that we can use to to maybe answer the question of where the ages of the kids and where the potential for that is. So we we might have an option, Helen, to hit that specific question coming out of that >> and and I believe that that's fairly important information because we have a lot of assumptions about where people are going, what's going on. Uh and I think having that data will really help us and somewhere in this I'm hoping that we're going to some of the families that have chosen to move out or that are now having babies now and their kids aren't in school that they will choose Robbinsdale and they will choose Robinsdale because we've actually built something for them to come to. And so I think that I mean I see little families all over my neighborhood all the time, you know. Well little baby came by and visit me the other day lifted in my spirits, you know, and that's for sure, you know, along with the parents. The baby couldn't walk, you know, he was in a stroller. But uh but but the reality is that, you know, we want to build something that people will come to. >> I don't believe Hazel study is specific to here's your certain areas of growth. I certainly know it that we don't have necessarily we don't have land available for housing moves and that sort of thing. However, I do think we can get to something of what you're looking for. >> Well, we will. And and remember, the population is aging. People, you know, they may not leave until they're actually passing it on to their child or selling the house, but movement is going to happen. Just because there's not, you know, we don't have a lot of young families right now doesn't mean they're not coming because the housing stock is solid. >> Director Bowman and then Director Long. And and I'm happy to report in my own very own neighborhood, we've had 10 houses go up for sale. It it's my generation are finally moving on. I thought it would have happened earlier, but I cannot believe how hot my neighborhood that for sale signs are going up. I think part of that is because Crystal's going to do 15% tax increase this year and next year. >> So the folks from Crystal are like, "We're going to bail." Um, so, um, you know, well, you know, the older ones, what can you say? They're like, we already paid our debt to this community. We're going. So, uh, the fact that, uh, I'm seeing a huge surge in houses for sale in in the city of Crystal should actually give us some hope that, um, because they're houses, you know, which is where your demographics claim that new kids come from. So >> depending the houses, but it's also depending on the dollar value >> of those houses and the affordability for uh parents that are at the age of >> of little ones. Yeah. And and and I agree. And you know, Crystal is always going to have more affordable housing than Golden Valley or or and even parts of Robinsdale because just the makeup is different. But we're the three-bedroom Rambler standard little houses that have not They're considered affordable. Let's face it, that's a tough number to choke down, but just to say those houses are going up for sale. >> Long. >> Okay. So, I wanted to go back to uh it was brought up about special ed programming being in every building. And I know special ed programming is in every building. Um but what about centerbased? What would that look like if we had centerbased in all of our buildings? Because that's different. that takes up a you know a classroom uh with fewer students and more staff in it. So just wondering about if there was center base in all these buildings what would that look like? Well center base is going to change your capacity depending upon the building. Um, it's part of the it's part of the kind of next step in this whole programming conversation of if there if we get to a spot we say this building is not something we're interested at all. It gets back to the question around could all three of these buildings fit into this building? Well, maybe if we don't have center baits. We had center base as an example. Maybe two of them can. Um, this is where all the puzzle pieces start fitting together and giving you what your true options are based on what the sandbox is. Right now, the options that we've presented there are making the assumption that we will have centerbased programming in the buildings. So, um, speaking of special education, um, you I've been reading some, I haven't read deeply, but read reading some information that talks about, uh, mainstreaming as a concept of children with special needs and to the greater population and is it really benefiting those children? Um, so that's the thought. Uh along with that thought we now have in our centerbased programs um there's an ability to increase the number of children I know based on facility but in you know so I'm wondering how that fits in the current federal landscape what what do we need to be thinking about what do you and us need to be thinking about with regard to federal constraints in the short term maybe they're longer term, but there's some threats to funding for special education. And so what does that look like? How can we plan for that? And so that's just a kind of a rhetorical question that goes to the programming that we're going to talk about in the future, relatively near future, but future. So, but it will be factored because we'll be talking about what kind of programming we're going to provide within what facilities at some point. I think the more until we know more, it's hard to until we know more the any answer that I would give would be speculative at best. >> Yeah. It's on I know it's on your radar, >> right? >> I don't have a good idea. >> No, no, no. I mean, the issue itself and how that fits into what we're talking about. That's all. >> So, we I would we've come we've kind of come back and forth or circled back around to 26 27. What are we trying to do? We're trying to shrink the footprint of the district because we have more space than what we need. We we then and and this is what happens in all of the conversations. It's not just this group here. It's when we're trying to come up with options. We we end up going down potential rabbit holes that we won't have answers to. Um and so we have to put pins in those. We'll get to them. They're they are part of the everything is a part of the conversation, right? Music program is part of the conversation. Special ed is a part of the conversation. The Megan schools are part of the conversation. Transportation is part of the conversation. Distances that kids would be from the building they're currently at to the building that they would be moving to. The disruption to the district, everything under the sun is a part of the potential conversation. And I think it brings us back to kind of one of the first slides that I shared of this entire process is really messy. Um it's clunky. Um it's emotional. It it tonight is the start of the emotion for many people, right? It just it is um it's imperfect at best. And the reason that it's imperfect is because every decision we make will have a tradeoff. >> And that means that everybody is going to be impacted directly or indirectly somehow with every decision because we have competing interests. It's that whole concept of the pond is now shrinking. And so now it's this competes with this and this competes with this. And we've already right we've already made the assumption that we're not doing anything for 26 27 with magnet schools that immediately complicates the whole potential solution not because they're magnet schools but because they're buildings, right? Um and then you add on to that the conditions of our buildings and what do we what buildings are we willing to continue to put money into and not put money into? And then you layer the locations of buildings. And now we're into the conversation we've been having tonight, which is exactly the conversation we need to be having is is how do we do this? How do we get through the clunkiness? How do we get through the imperfection and get to a spot that gets the district to the footprint size that we can manage as part of the SOD plan and sets us up for what three or four of you have touched on which is as you see some of to the question of the assumptions there's intentionality behind some of the the pieces that are in there right you can forecast what could be if there are dollars to support something. It all of that has to be part of the decision because it's got to be feasible. It's got to be desirable and has to be sustainable. >> Can I add to that? So, I've been in the district for 29 years. We have opened buildings, we have closed buildings, and I have been through many of those pieces. And I think the intentionality that we have put into this process and grounding the work in the strategic plan and having the re-imagine group guide the community developed creation of the reimagine work has brought us here to the intentionality of your questions tonight. It is going to be hard back to what director Long said with staff and families and the impact that they are going to have. It is going to be hard, but the endg game, that end product of what we want Robbinsdale to be is going to be amazing. And we have to keep that in sight as we know that these challenging things that we are going to need to face and the decisions that we're going to need to make are going to be incredibly impactful and hard for some people. And yet, we need to remember our envy. And I think what we are doing here in this process is unbelievable compared to some of the other building closures that Robinson has gone through in the past. >> Thank you. >> Super. >> Um so I know there were some questions um about demographics and enrollment. So, I'm I'm going to suggest board members, if you haven't seen it, to go to the October 3rd presentation um from the state demographer for the American or the Association of Metropolitan School Districts, AMSD. I I just think it's a Yep, it's in the link. Um but I I just think it's important that we recognize where the state is in terms of school age children >> and and we have places that we can certainly retain and grow our capture rates and you know making sure that we sustain stabilize our enrollment. Um right we have a really excellent product. It's going to be someplace people want to come. But I also just want to be really I want to be sure that you as you take a look at this you see I mean we're finally Minnesota as a state is back almost to the population change and the growth since the early 2000s right before co we're at a.7% >> 2000 sorry 20 >> yeah y right before sorry about that right before co we're at 7% I also want you to note in this presentation, births have been declining statewide. School age children births have been declining statewide. So there's smaller cohorts of school age children across the way. Um specifically we're called out and the aual change in population ages 5 to 17 by county. The largest annual losses are in Henipin County. Furthermore, this isn't great news, but it is news and it's important for us to pay attention to as we look at the school districts with the largest numeric gains in resident population um and then the largest losses uh declines in resident population. Robinsdale is third numerically with the largest numeric declines in resident population ages 5 to 17 changes from 2020 to 2023. So I just think it's really important, right? Hope's not a strategy. I I believe our strategy of building an excellent school district helps us bring that capture rate which is at about 62% up. It helps us retain resident population. helps us ensure that perhaps surrounding districts see something in us. Um so there's places to reverse but I think it's an important study just to take a look at again to kind of see what the state of the state is in school age um population. So I will send that link to y'all. >> Thank you. I was just going to add to that that because in no way am I disparaging the east side of our district, but people with young children buy homes further out because it's cheaper. You get more house per square foot. And Hazel Reinhardt has said that in the NASA presentation, they also said that too. And so even when you look at our cities within our school district, the percent of kids 0 to 18 gets bigger the the further out west and north you go. So Plymouth, Brooklyn Center, Brooklyn Park have the highest percentage of kids compared to the other cities. So it's just it's just kind of the natural progression of things that the demographers are seeing. Yeah. >> Um so no, we bought our first house in Crystal, too. So love Crystal. Sounds disparaging. So over 30 years listening to it go away from the east side of the district. So sometimes investments get to be made because it's the right thing to do on that side of the system. Also, it's why St. Michael has such a big robust school district because they keep going west. >> So, so what Dr. >> Yeah. So, because you had talked about cash rate and so I'd really love to see there are Robbinsdale school buses that drop off in my neighborhood and there are non Robbinsdale school buses that drop off at my in my neighborhood and loads of kids coming off of them. So, I'd like to see the non Robindale buses disappear from my neighborhood. >> Me, too. Right. How do we do that? build an excellent school district >> and they will come. >> There are a lot of kids getting off those rock. >> Well, you saw you saw the numbers like like we have that we have the numbers of students who open it all up. >> Okay. So, what happens next? Homework for us between the next meeting or what what happens next? >> Both. So homework continues to be as questions come up getting those to superintendent um as you're processing through stuff intentionally processing through stuff is the homework. Uh in the meantime as we look forward to November 3rd uh we will have uh Peter Leatherman here to present the survey results. So, we have that piece of information and then we will also most likely have some other statutory operating debt items to potentially put out there. I think we we kind of floated it tonight. Programming things, ideas of that nature because we we have to start ramping that up too. Um, and then I would say that we will go back kind of take the questions that we've written down with regard to the two options here. Uh, look at a couple of different things and see if there's something else that seems to make sense as a tweak on an option or this or that. Um, and bring that back as the third part of the discussion for November 3rd. That hopefully will set the stage for one more round of this. so that by the 17th we're ready to come to you with what would be the fi our final here's what we're thinking we should do what last questions do you have um to get us to the 24 >> members questions pardon question superintendent Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Good work. All right. This moves us along to board governance. >> So, is it June? Everybody got this? >> Let's take a five minute break. >> We'll just take a five minute refocus. water and it looked Sure. Yes. I'm just being here. >> Be on the school board, right? You love governance. >> You can always digest. >> You can read it online anytime. >> Yeah, I'm going to go watch it with a glass of wine. Excellent. Maybe we should start. >> Good night. Good night. >> Good night. >> Thank you. >> Okay. And we're back. Okay. So, this school board's governance and procedure uh governance procedure and handbook has been in the makings for about a year. Uh um even before that when we were in professional development with Deborah Keys, she was like, "What? You don't have one of these? You need to have one." And so Director Bassid and I worked every every week for hours. >> Oh, sorry. Basset. No, >> don't give away my credit. >> Well, no. Sorry, Dr. Basset. Dr. Bowman and I worked um hours every week >> and then in between times they even worked more than I did right >> on this. And so what we did is we took the MSBA schoolboard manual handbook and we took our bylaws and our um policies and our everything else that we had related and tucked it where it belonged. So, this is like one-stop shopping now for the school board. So, and it when it's online and it says a statute, you can click it and you can get to the statute. Or if it says a policy, you can click it and you can get to a policy, but it's taken. But, uh, we didn't think it ourselves. We use the MSBA. What do you want to add anything, Dr. Bman? Yeah, because the you know just for the record the MSBA MSBA this was their first uh attempt at putting together a manual because of the demand they were getting from school district the questions they were getting. So I took the class in this when it was first put out last last year whenever it was >> January August. >> Yeah. In August. Um and was it 23? >> I think it was 23. >> Yeah. So in August of 23 I took the class and we started um you know that's where it came from. Most of the stuff if you if you've read through it really is stuff from MSBA and now >> personalized for us >> personalized for us and can always be personalized for us. And my point to that is the policy committee hasn't yet discussed its procedure for a non-committee member to bring forth a request for substantive changes in policy. And so I so the policy committee will read that uh here at the end of the month. And then that's another option that that would be a procedure that we could implant in here where they talk about the the policy committee. So it's always it can always be growing. >> So we could call it a living document as a budget as a living document, >> right? >> And so when things change, this will change, but this is a really solid starting point >> and MSBA maintains the links which is correct. the way we have it linked. I think that was >> we don't maintain the links but because we have it online and we decided to keep it online. It's because MSBA maintains those links >> the links to the MSBA stuff, right? >> But like where it says board committees and there's underlining Molly has put all the links in and that's at our stay online. So do you have any question? Yes, director. >> Oh, sorry. >> So changes that will may happen based on statue from MSBA site will update automatically without >> right that their links would update the MSBA link on their website. Okay. >> And then the ones that we change >> Molly will be or the executive >> fearless executive assistant will take care. because this was a lot of work. I mean, it was a lot of work for director Bowman and I mean, but it was a lot a lot a lot of work from Molly to get it and then have to do all the table of contents even >> which we haven't done yet. >> The point is right there. >> Well, the table of contents uh will be the last thing we decided to do. I think it's pretty close, but we haven't finished because that was the least of our concerns. >> Okay, Director Long. Okay. So, on page 16, the S in study is red. I don't know why it's red, but I mean something in red. >> Yeah. >> Interesting. >> Cuz there's an error. I think it says cuz it should be study shops. >> Oh, so steady. I don't know if it's >> sessions. >> Yeah. >> And I don't know if that's >> No, it's workshops. It says yeah it says study workshops retreats. >> So is that just to so >> we'll have to change just we'll just change that to workshops. >> Okay. So can I keep going or >> okay 15 the board compensation is that really accurate cuz I don't think I don't remember it being that much. the uh paragraph. >> It's at the end of the meeting. >> That is actually correct. >> Really? >> Unless you have money taken up for taxes. >> I thought it was only$7,000 for directors. >> No, I think it's 7,800. >> Yeah. You do the math. >> Okay. Because Yeah. When I was just a director, I was not getting that amount of money a month. But I didn't fill out anything to take out. >> When you when you first started, HR people didn't have you fill out a thing. I did. >> Yeah, I filled out a thing, but I didn't. Yeah, it wasn't I wasn't getting that amount of money per month. >> Okay. 650 * 12 is 78. I mean 7,800, but it ends up more like 575 after taxes. That sort of >> mine was 600 after taxes. >> Yeah. And then as vice chair, that's But I guess you're saying after taxes because that's definitely not what I'm getting as vice chair. I'm pretty much getting the same as what I was getting. >> That's true. because it's only $50 more a month. And so with taxes, it's going to be only like $35 more a month than what you were getting. >> Okay. I just I thought it was 700, but I'm sure that's the I was like, when did we get a pay increase? We This has been the same since Paty Green was on the board because one of her things when she left the board was make sure that there were increases put through and that was the last time I think increases were put through. So these are correct amounts. Okay. And then sorry my other thing was I was just um wondering about the charts on page five. By the way, thanks for looking at this ahead of time. >> Yeah, I tried out some of the links, too, but there's just way too many links to try them all out. >> So, >> okay. Chart on page five. >> Yeah. So, I am just wondering page five and on page six cuz there's some duplication there and I get it. That's true. But would that be accurate accurate when we're thinking about this? >> Cuz I get that the assistant superintendent would also be in the cabinet, but would they be in the office, >> right? I think there's some changes there. >> I think that's just ambiguary. >> Okay. >> Yeah, we'll just cross him out. He doesn't He only gets to be in that thing once. >> And I think Kristen too probably should move into leadership. Kevin. >> Oh, there you go. For a long time. So, you want Kristen to be put into this next box? Yeah, >> I think I think both Bob and Kristen into the leadership c the executive cabinet. >> Well, Bob is in the leadership cabinet, >> but he's also in the office. >> Okay, put Christian back on there and then Okay. >> And the last thing, I take offense to the picture on page nine. I would rather go to glamour shots so that we can have shots there. >> Well, >> I don't know. >> How about if I meet you halfway and we take a new one? >> We have the new person. Um, we can make a new one before the new person is on and then when the new person is on or just let it go until the new person >> or we could do shots when we have our ESC picture day. >> Okay. And then just the individual board members. >> Yeah. As soon as I find out when that's going to be, I'll let you know. >> And then we can just have individual board members and then we can pull them out and put them in as needed. >> Perfect. >> I think that makes more sense. Thank you. Just and then if you have a glamour shot instead of your school mug mug shot bring it >> just bring it as long as you're fully clothed and everything. >> Can I can I request though a feather boa in the picture? >> You said it. Okay. >> All right. I do have a question for real though. >> Yes. >> Well, that was real. But my my big question on this is because this kind of information can get out of date and need to be updated very quick fairly frequently. So my question is just where does that fall? Who's responsible for that? How often will this be reviewed and updated to make sure that it it does because a lot of work went into this. I don't want it to fall um out of date. first. >> I I really think this could easily be rolled into the policy committee. It makes sense in the policy committee. >> Is it going to be an annual review? I just want to make sure it >> annually or banually. Well, >> you know, first of all, it'd be like sort of on demand when we see things that need to be changed. It we can use the same process that you would use to ask for substantive changes in the policies themselves. But I think I think it and it you know that's a tough one because I I batted that around back and forth. You know I would say every two years you could get by with a review on this because I don't see the MSBA stuff changing all that much. I mean most of what goes on in governance is meant to never change. So I would think a review every two years would be sufficient with additions as they come through. >> Yeah. I think maybe there should be an annual just review to make sure or phone numbers, email addresses, and links are correct. >> Sure. For the technical stuff. >> Yeah, that's that's the kind of stuff that can go out of date really quick. It's sort of like web pages. We always forget to review our websites and then someone will email you and be like, "This is a broken link." Oh, yeah. Better check. >> So, annually, at least for the like just >> for the technical desk. >> Yeah. Well, can I add to that maybe to not just annually, but if there's like some major changes to some key key people, >> that's what we're Yeah. >> Oh, sure. like turnover in administration or turnover board members. >> I think that's that was my why my initial question about are things going to happen >> naturally? Yeah. >> You know, directed towards uh Molly because she owns the document. So, >> I see us wanting to keep up to date. >> Dr. Bass, do you have any thoughts? >> I do. And uh first, thank you for all this work. It looks great. Um you know, and so um we really appreciate it. I do. And uh so a couple things. one on page 12. I'm going to kind of maybe uh advance notice. So, uh oh, this has to do with the agenda. I I do think that and let's just let's see. I'll pick one that say local ah it's item I I I to prevent violations of the open meeting lot members may attend by I I suggest we add some language advanced notice request comma or invitation uh by to attend by the chair because I think any of those things will avoid um open meeting law violations and I think it's better to have it be more flexible than less less flexible. >> I would I would ask the question over the last year, how many times have people come here to agenda? I mean, that's not a problem. Oh, I don't know about that. I'm just saying. I mean, >> can I ask a question to clarify because I'm taking notes to make this. So, it' be attendance by invitation of the chair or at the request >> advanced notice. >> Attendance. >> Will you ask me what I said? >> I'm I'm seeing if I wrote this. >> I just advanced notice was the first thing I said. well may attend by invitation of the chair or at the request of a board director and and then the advanced notice would be uh >> by request is kind of what I mean. So >> So you want advanced notice to be >> if you want to come if you want to come >> right I'm just trying to get I'm just responding to what I think you're >> I'm trying to get capture what you're saying. >> Okay. So you would we would add advanced notice because somebody couldn't just show up that day and say I want to be here. Correct. Exactly. So it' be advanced notice of invitation of the chair or request of a board director. Okay. That's easy to add. That just flexibility is always >> okay. So if a person is interested in attending, >> they say I would like to attend the next one. Can you let me know what it is when you know? I I'm not going to dictate that. I'm just saying I think >> process. I >> I know. I'm just I'm I'm just saying I think that the language by request or by invitation and what you always I know what I do. I don't know what other people do, but I send an email, you know, and ask as as in advance. And so I think that's common courtesy really, you know. Um but >> yeah. Okay. So next. >> Yeah. So the other thing I have is on page 14. Um I think that um this whole section on number 10 about the will of the board that is slippery slope language and I know that uh when I say that because I think it it I I guess I feel like somewhere we should say the board should strive for consensus because I think consensus is what builds rapport and and consensus requires dialogue sometimes. But I think if the goal is consensus and one of the things that you know resonated with me uh is that we heard in our recent training with MSBA is that consensus should be the goal and that uh because I think Robert's rules of order is a framework that all school boards use but uh but to use that as just the first go to the only go-to. If you're if the goal is not to build consensus, you lose a lot. Uh and so I think that striving for consensus, however that can be fit into this sentence is good. Uh the board should strive for a consensus to determine the will of the board. Uh then of course at the end of the day, you're going to if it's something that requires a vote, you got to take one. That doesn't go away. But I think adding consensus here and striving for it is a value >> as a this this section is the duties of the chair >> and that phrase I think should be right in there I think because it says that the chair communications of the board the will of the board is defined because you know it's already in here that's the reason I responded to it because it's written in here uh defined as a simply simple governing majority where a majority of the board groups are present. The will is always a majority v voice. Well that's obvious. I do think that embedding this in the chair communications but striving for consensus is something I think is important for our chair to do and so not immediately just go you know I think that you hear from people in order to reach consensus that is the goal I I think you know when I'm discussing with people I listen to what they're saying and if they you know I get I've been influenced for years and years and years by what other people have said and I might change my opinion but uh if we rush right to well this will go the board you And this thumbs up thing, we're also warning against that is informal. Well, the rule of the board is everybody said the poor people said yes, so we're just going to do it. And I'm not saying that that is that's, you know, not a dig. It's just is not good practice because good best practice is take and it says it in this document because it's it's actually what's expected is when we take a vote, that's when it's relaxed. is a slippery slope to go down the road of this world stuff. >> This came from Robert's roles. >> I'm just I'm just adding you. >> And can I also add the reason why it's in here was to give people a clear definition of what will of the board means and that is to say that the will of the board is the majority voice. >> Is there a better place to put consensus building? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Number eight >> is where number eight or earlier. Maybe you want a paragraph in a different section because it's not just a it's not just the board chair. Okay. It is the responsibility of every single person. >> I agree totally. So I'm going to make note of a paragraph on consensus. >> Yes. Okay. So, >> um, I just want to make a comment. Um, because I don't I don't recall at the board table when it's an action item, the board taking a vote by a thumbs up, but I do I do believe that at study sessions, there's been times when I have asked for clear direction for the board. And so, that's not a formal vote, but I need to know coming out of the study session that we're moving in the right direction. So I I I would hope we could continue to do that. >> So I we never would do a thumbs up or two. >> Yeah. So to in response to uh superintendent u I I understand and I hear what you're saying. So I think that for the administration to kind of get a temperature about which way we're going here. That makes perfect sense. But I'm really talking about this is the board's you know I mean I'm really kind of thinking about this from the board's perspective and trying to integrate things like talk about things that I think would be helpful. Great work. We will put that in. you will find your place will meet. And then the next one I um is on page 24 and do not Oh, so I think this is kind of sometimes in misnomer because do not send reply message to all emails. If the board member needs to communicate the full board information needs to go through the chair, the school board chair. Okay. Then these communications which can't be in person phone calls, emails or form considering a violation of open meeting may allow governing body to collect deliver action taxes. I think uh not in this document and in other documents I I actually have seen it's okay for workers to send you know if you want to send an email about a social thing if you want to see if people are going someplace if you're go if you're at a conference and you want to check in with people it's okay to send emails to if you're asking for direction or s sharing information if you're sharing information that's okay if the key is oneway communication nobody should be back and forth with you on it. If it's just sharing information, push it out there. That's it. If it goes to, you know, and buy BCC is an effective means. So, I think that that gets confused and I've heard people say, you can't send this, you can't send that. I don't mean to be, you know, snarky about it, but I do think that that causes unnecessary, you know, I mean, it stands in the way of informality. I mean because I don't I haven't seen a big in the last couple year anyway of a lot of emails that just come randomly from people about random things that's we seem to have grown out of that but information sharing from one director to another I think is perfectly fine and so uh and so information sharing if it's not trying to get a vote if it's not trying to do something it's just sharing information I think that's fine >> I would like to caution on that that we have been cautioned by our attorneys repeatedly for board members not to send BCC items to the entire board. Now, you're saying information, but if any part of that information suggests an action by the board or an action at the table, that is a violation of the open meeting law. I mean, saying that this is going to be at 4:00 so everybody knows is one thing. saying we should remove this from the agenda or we should do this or we should postpone action on that. That is that is inappropriate and breaking the open meeting law. >> Well, we can't do that. >> I think we disagree, but you know, I mean attorney Excuse me. >> I was having a turn talking. >> Okay. Well, I know. I thought you had lost. >> I didn't. >> Okay. >> So, according to our attorney, we have to be very very careful about what is sent to the entire board. >> Sure. and what would only be like an extreme circumstance or a need for particular information. Nothing about any proposed action or suggestions for action. >> I think we agree. I think what we what we're talking about with regard to what is information may be the crux of it because I I don't know that I've seen a lot of traffic that's come by. But there are there's information I think it can should be can be shared. But I mean I I've just I've noted it. I've said it. You have your response. Yeah. So, I'm kind of wondering about that, too. And I don't know. I mean, it's probably not a part of this conversation, but I feel like there there are times when how how can we share information with each other that needs to to go out to everybody? Because I know there has been stuff that has come to the chair that has not gotten out to all of us. Um, has it been requested >> to go out to everybody or is it just gone to the chair and the chair didn't send it? >> That that's critical in in the >> Right. Well, and maybe it was implied because there have been outside people who have sent stuff, you know, and then it didn't go out to everybody. So, you know, I'm just wondering, I mean, maybe that could be a conversation that we further have about how should that be dealt with if information comes to one of us board members, how do we get that information out to everybody else? what is the best way to do that you know um and then sorry if I could just add one more thought to that um I'm also wondering too like when we have listening session like we never talk about that or how we want to respond to that or how we're feeling about the information that we heard from community members you know like when is the time for us to talk about that and I know that was something that I had asked when I first came on the board but I'm still stuck wondering you know like one response goes out from the chair, but that's not always necessarily how we all feel about it. How can we all sit and I don't know, I'm going down a different place, but maybe at some point in time we could put that in a parking lot or something and have that discussion. >> Let's find the parking lot. Georgia, did you want to finish? >> Well, I Well, thank you because I was quite dead, but I appreciate your comments. Uh obtainations 828. Okay. Uh communications with the media. Uh so uh district protocol situation I'm approached by media regardless of concern uh or board decision. Well that happens all the time. They may ask it but for the most part people don't respond. The chair superintendent speaks with the media on behalf of the board. Uh the chair superintendent are not available. There is no response to the media. the chair will open on board when there has been a request from the media. Uh you know often times the media contacts individual board members without going to the chair. You know uh they they do that all the time. I don't necessarily have a a problem with going for some the formal things. But I do think that there may be occasions where if somebody asks me a question about something for the most part I don't answer them. But there may come a time that I want to because the last thing that that I'm very sensitive of these days is I am tired of being disqual. I'm tired of being included in stuff that I'd have nothing to do with I've had it. And if I feel like it's a time for me to defend myself or say something, I'm going to do it. You know, so I'm just saying that on the record because I've been the subject of a lot of some stuff that was not okay. And so uh and so we don't as citizens give up that right. That does not mean I won't have not been and will not continue to observe the district profile. I don't problem with that. But there may be situations and circumstances where the director may feel like they need to to respond on some issue. It may or may not have anything to do with you. But everything you do in the public reflects on this board. me or us as >> as long as your board people can just say stuff, make up stuff, you know. So, um that is just a concern that I want to raise in this meeting because um it I think it's important because a lot of that stuff is dying down, but it has occurred. And just a gentle reminder to everyone, just because the TV station calls or the newspaper calls does not mean you need to give a response. >> And so if your approach protocol is to refer to the superintendent or the chair and and I don't say if anybody does contact me, I usually send a note to Terry or somebody. I usually tell, you know, if somebody reaches out to me, I I mean I'm not shy about that. But um I think that I'm going to have to be an arbiter about what I think I need to do at the end of the day notwithstanding this >> another one. >> No, those were the ones I had. Like I said, I thought you did a great job and thank you for doing >> I just have one more. There were a couple parts where it said red draft or red include this chart and that chart and that's going to be included in >> Yeah. And now that you tell us that, it lets me know that I think what I'll do is make an appointment with Molly and her and I will just sit down with kind of that fine tooth comb and go through each one and make sure it's not there. And can I respond to the um the listening time uh stuff and and this might be a good time for clarity as I've understood it. Um I will like we get letter we get emails in from people, right? and the board chair is our designated >> responder >> responder to it. It doesn't prevent me from responding to those emails or responding to the people who have uh talk to us during listening time. But when I respond to them, I always start with the the chair has the official response from this board because generally speaking, but this is only my opinion. I don't speak for the board. I start my communications with that because I'm usually seeking more information and I don't think that that is a violation. That's how I was raised throughout all of it. That it isn't that we don't have the right to talk to those people because that's sort of what the other side of it implies. It means that this is the chair is our official spokesperson. But um and maybe I'm wrong, but I've always done it with a in a way that I'll I'll reach out and communicate and and um talk with people via email and whatever because that's also my job. It's just not my job to be the official spokesperson for the board. >> When I was not the chair, I would respond to the emails that I got by saying, "Thank you for sending me the email about whatever it was." >> Great. And if they were a teacher something, thanks for teaching the district. I want you to know that I read your email. And that's and so often they would respond, "Thank you so much for letting me know you read my email." That's they wanted they wanted to be heard, right? >> And it didn't they didn't need a whole opinions from me or anything like that when I wasn't going to give it because I wasn't the spokesman for the board. But I always let them know I read your email. I read the I read the entire thing. Thank you for sharing your thoughts or your >> right and that but again and I like to ask questions what you know or I'll ask questions or I'll that kind of thing because it's all in learning learning. So >> well and actually that's the spirit that I said my comments a few minutes ago. I think director bow said it quite well. The fact of the matter is is that anytime I'm responding for myself, I'm responding just me saying this, not speaking. And that's part of being there's no you can go out in the community, people going to see you, they're going to talk to you. And so it's there's no difference between people talking to me there and be as long as I know that we have an official response and what I'm saying to you is not it. That's what's important. I you know >> I think that that's it's interesting just listening to y'all because I think what what I would want to be sure is that clarity because it'd also be hard for a community member to get seven responses saying seven different things >> right >> you know so I think I think that's that's an important distinction that would be a a question >> and you know and so yeah the longer I mean over the years the thing is is that uh that is really the pract practice that I've ever been people board members respond to community people all the time. They within those parameters that we just talked about because they have relationships, you know, that's why people support the district and they and if you're not responsive, they don't like it, you know, and uh we don't want to be like that. But I think as long as you're clear about you're not speaking for the board and they know you are and uh and I think that's been standard practice as long as I can remember that people do that. Does that make the board seem like it's divided sometimes? >> I don't know about that. I mean, because I here's here's my barometer. If it hasn't caused a problem and it's not causing problems, I I think we we focus on what the culture and what we're doing. And this manual gives a perfect opportunity to do that. But it also gives an opportunity for us to hear each other because I agree with what director Bowman said because that's what's been in practice. That's what directors have been doing. They've been saying, "I'm not the chair. I'm not the spokesperson." And we also go through the protocol. Have you talked to the principal? Have you talked to And I I sent emails to I just sent them say, "I'm not telling." And I just sent them to Terry, you know. I mean, so I think people use common sense and do those things. And I think that that's fine. If it's something for implementation, that's going to be something that's in the administration bailway. I am very quick to say that's not my job and I I don't have the answers for that. you need to talk to the superintendent because I can't tell you I wasn't there. I don't know what happened and I'm not going to get in the middle of anything that I don't know about, you know, and that was the way I rolled when I was chair, you know. So, >> all of my replies go to the whole board and the superintendent. But then if you guys reply, it's just from you and nobody knows until it comes back in my face that >> even I mean it would be there are times I put your name as a as a CC. So what? >> Yeah. So I think at least since I have been on the board, the practice that I've looked at is if it's an email sent to the whole board, I read it and I'm silent about it and wait for your response. Emails that are addressed to me directly concerning whatever the topic may be. If it's something that I feel like it needs to be shared, I will forward it on. If it's just about things that we've been already hearing about, like you said, I will acknowledge that I've received it and let them know, you know, the process is still going on and just kind of time them. So I don't know if we should start maybe CC you on those individuals >> or adapting what you're saying if it comes to the full board were silent chair answers. >> I mean >> that makes sense. >> I pretty sure I got this language I I think that Liz gave us language not too long after I started. So I just have an automatic response that says thank you for your email. I read each mail email and take your input seriously. Although I cannot respond in details of the individual schoolboard director. Please know I appreciate you reaching out. You should hear directly from the schoolboard chair and or district administration as appropriate and that automatically gets sent to each yeah each email. So everybody automatic and I'll have people will write back. Thank you for responding so quickly. >> It's clearly an automatic but thank you. Um but um in that way they do get a response they know that it's been received and then then you can respond in your time and and then but I that language came I adopted that from I believe Liz Vier had um created you know I amended it to make it my personal language but basically what she said so that they don't think it just went into a black hole but um also I'm not responding in a way that it's not appropriate. So, >> and occasionally an email slip through the cracks with me or it takes a lot >> or a chair because we shouldn't be just saying you know I know with me >> it's the chair. It's the role of the chair. >> Dr. Long. >> Yeah. So, I'm just going to go back to I just want to know when we get an opportunity to communicate about some of that stuff that we get from the community from listening time or emails and whatnot. I still feel like there's, you know, a time where we should be able to have a chance to talk about it. Otherwise, it feels weird that, you know, we're supposed to be the school board, but we're not talking about whatever that issue and problem is. And I know there are some limitations because of data privacy or employment law, but still, I feel like there should still be a time when we as a board can address what's been brought to us. or at least discuss it amongst each other even though I I that's all I'm asking for and when is the time that we can do that. >> Thank you director. Yeah, and I I think I'll agree with that uh also because I think maybe two or three months ago I actually mentioned that, right? But we I don't think we have the environment to be able to bring some of those things to the floor without attacking other personalities, right? I think based on my observation at least I feel like we are heading in the right direction. um maybe hopefully after January or so I I can see us functioning the way school boards are supposed to function. >> So that's that's a great uh conversation to have I think. >> So So what I'm wondering Caroline is I saw a section in the manual that talked about communication among directors I believe and so maybe there's some can look at that see if there's a place for that you know kind of an informal discussion or something that I don't know or you guys can talk about in agenda setting the work session time for just general discussions. I'm not sure but try to just respond to what you ask. >> Let's talk about it at agenda setting about having an opportunity for the board members to talk among themselves about what we've heard at listening time or if we're being inundated with emails like sometimes we have been. um if there is like a time in work sessions or something for the board to talk because maybe what we're hearing at listening is wrong information and be you'd be able to and maybe we just need to go totally but >> there might be something in between. >> Yeah. which is some of the stuff that comes through doesn't belong to us, belongs to Terry. And maybe if it's a update that goes on the Friday report, that might be a good place for specific things from listening time um to be included in that if it's not board stuff or at least the response from the administration. >> But I'm hearing you say you want a chance for the board to actually talk about Let's talk about a January change. >> Does anybody else have anything else on the >> rightual? [Music] I mean, I I thought that was a good question that Eva asked about >> annually by the policy committee. againated functional or technical versus >> Okay. And so that means at our next business meeting, this will come up to be approved by the board. >> Correct. >> Okay. So if you're pondering things and something comes to you, don't wait till we're at that meeting. >> Send it to me revise with whatever adjustments you make in descriptions or whatever. >> Just there weren't a lot that I heard. Well, what we'll do is we'll put a I'll put a cover page together that says page whatever we did this page whatever we did this page whatever we did that >> to track those changes. So like >> good. >> Sadly, it looks like sadly >> the magic words. >> We don't seem to have any more. >> Oh, but not sadly. We went 17 minutes over on this topic. >> Oh, well, at 9:30. >> Thanks y'all. Good work. >> There's lots to think about.