Sorry. Welcome everyone. It's time for me to call this meeting of the Robinsdale Area School School Board to order. Today is Monday, August 3rd, 2026. It is 700 PM and we are in the boardroom of the Education Service Center. Um, will the clerk please read the role? >> Director Basset. >> Director Bowman marks herself. >> All right. Item number four is approval of our agenda. >> I'll second. >> Okay. It's been moved and seconded. Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve our agenda. Due to the fact that we have one of our board members who was just with us remotely, um we will be having all of our votes as roll call votes. So, um it's a roll call vote to approve the agenda. Uh if the clerk is ready, we're ready. >> All right. >> Director Wuto, >> yes. >> Director Long, >> yes. >> Director Bowman Marks, yes. Director Brennesen, >> yes. >> Uh, Director Hillbrand, >> yes. >> Chair Evans Becker, >> yes. >> Director Basset, >> yes. >> Motion carries. >> Thank you very much. All right, moving right along. Item five is a special report. Uh, this is the bond referendum presentation. Dr. Stalo. >> Thank you very much. Good evening board members, those of you in the ESC, and those of you in the viewing public, the school board has approved the ballot language and called the special election for November 3rd uh bond referendum. As a district, our responsibility is to ensure that we have a strong referendum communication p campaign to provide factual information, awareness, and education to our community. Last week we were able to present for the first time to the city of Plymouth and tonight we want to share the presentation with you. So the purpose of this presentation Oh, we're getting the presentation up. [snorts] Excellent. The purpose of this presentation is to educate our community with the facts of the referendum. We want to also ensure a strong partnership based on trust and transparency between the school district and the community as a whole. In terms of outcomes, by the end of this presentation, we hope all who are watching will understand our current reality, the work in which we've been engaged for the last two years, and the way this bond request gets us to a better and sustainable future for our students and community. Ultimately, our purpose as a school district, the reason we exist, and the outcomes we seek each day are to engage in the most critical work that will allow our school district mission, which is to inspire and educate all learners to develop their unique potential and positively contribute to their community come to life for each and every one of our students. [snorts] We can't do this missionritical work alone. We exist within communities and serve all or parts of seven cities. We current oper currently operate 18 sites including 13 schools and five buildings for district programming and services including lease space at Crystal Learning Center and a warehouse in New Hope. Last year we operated 21 or 22 sites depending on if you count the ESC and the bus garage separate from one another as part of our statutory operating debt reductions. At the end of last year, we closed three schools, eliminated eliminated middle level programming at another school, and are in the process of moving and preparing to close the district services center here uh later this fall. The closer we get to operating 13 sites, given our student population, the more responsible and efficient we will be as a school district. The previous slide showed the buildings that house our students. But I want to remind you that it is the 9,831 students each day that we have the privilege and the responsibility of serving their very diverse needs representing a wide array of racial, cultural, and ethnic backgrounds. Diversity is our strength. We have 92 different languages spoken in the homes of our students. And throughout the district, we focus on individualized attention as we provide a variety of services that represent the needs our students have. [snorts] 1,594 talented staff across the district support our students each day. Our staff demographics do not yet match that of the students that we serve and we have made significant reductions to staff over the last two years as we align our staffing model with our enrollment. Our community is being asked to consider a future focused plan. This plan is designed to rightsize the number of buildings we operate and to ensure that our students have learning spaces and opportunities that will strengthen their experience while they are with us and provide them what they need for their futures. The plan was created based on what we heard from our community staff and students. We heard that our community wants students to learn in inclusive and safe environments and to have equitable opportunities across the district. No school board member, no district administrator, and no community wants to be in the position that we're in right now. We have experienced declining enrollment for years, coupled with operating too many old, outdated buildings. You can see our decline in enrollment over the years with an all-time high of enrollment in the early 70s with 28,000 students and again our current 9800 students that we serve. Our current reality didn't just happen overnight and the challenges we face today are the result of long-term trends, not a single decision or moment. Financial concerns are not new. You can see that the district in this next slide was close to being in statutory operating debt. Thank you. Um statutory operating debt right before COVID and that the ESSER dollars that we were provided provided us temporary relief. As issues have been uncovered like statutory operating debt, the district has owned the challenges and sought solutions to move us toward financial stability. Specifically, we have reduced spending or reorganized programs, consolidated schools, and made significant operational changes to strengthen our financial foundation. These efforts were never intended to be the destination. Instead, they have been the first step toward building a stronger future. Planning for the future requires requires us to look both at our financial situation and the programming and opportunities that set Ardale up to be the district of choice for our families. Not only do we not have some of the programming popular in other school districts, it's also clear that the programming that some of our students and families have grown to love are not accessible to all of our students. In particular, our families want arts and innovation for all, no matter what school their child is assigned to. Students always come first, and the current reality of facility limitations impact the quality of education we can provide. Our classrooms were designed in an era when students sat passively and teachers lectured. We know that today's students are engaged and learn best when they are active participants through hands-on student centered learning which helps them connect learning new concepts to real world application and experiences. Our college career and technical pathway spaces do not offer the opportunities many of our neighboring school districts provide. Today's graduates often leave high school school with cert certificates in high-paying trades and a chance to explore careers of interest opportunities that we are not only able we are not able to s provide with our current classrooms. Many of our buildings were constructed without an understanding of the importance of natural light both for academic learning and student and staff well-being. Today's new school construction creates secure entrances with automated access control and the ability to section off areas of the building to isolate incidents. Passive supervision is increased through added glass that allows views into corridors and stairwells. Additionally, hallways are wider to allow for less congestion during passing time, reducing anxiety and conflict. Our students have identified a need for single user restrooms as a safety, privacy, and ADA accessible need. We've been intentional over the past two years digging into the issues and past decisions behind our current reality. Through internal assessments and evidence-based practices, the district has developed annual strategic plan priority work to help advance academic achievement, student engagement, and wellness, collaboration and partnerships, and staff investment. Additionally, we had a new demographic study completed to help ensure accuracy with enrollment projections. We engaged in a robust community engagement process to learn what our community values and to hear their recommendations of a vision for a better tomorrow. We completed a comprehensive facilities assessment to understand the needs of our buildings and we have reduced over 26 million from our budget over the past three years. Even given these efforts, the district is at a crossroads. This bond referendum is an opportunity to build a predictable, intentional path forward. If approved, the referendum would create a single unified high school, transform outdated classrooms into dynamic learning environments, expand opportunities in academics, career and technical education, arts, athletics, improve accessibility and safety features, and better utilize existing district facilities. Together, those investments are intended to create stronger learning environments while reducing the long-term cost of operating more buildings than the district needs. This means repurposing existing spaces that support hands-on project-based learning and robust career pathways that allow educators to innovate and see their students thrive. It means educators have flexible learning spaces for large group instruction and small group interventions. teachers can focus on instruction in a way that they know works best both for their curriculum and their students. This referendum is an investment that reduces our daily operational overhead, protects taxpayer dollars through efficient space management, and ensures our schools remain safe, vibrant learning communities. Students remain the absolute priority. Alternatively, without a bond referendum, the district will need to make hard decisions and cuts that will impact programming, transportation activities, and staffing. Budget decisions will be guided purely by efficiencies. Deep cuts to programming and opportunities will lead to further enrollment decline. Lowering enrollment means less revenue, forcing even deeper cuts and a mounting debt cycle. So now as we look at the questions uh the three questions that are approved by the board on the ballot. Questions number one and two together represent the [clears throat] totality of the original plan. However, after surveying the community, the tax tolerance came back at a lower threshold than the cost. So items were removed from the original plan that allowed us to keep a sustainable and controlled path for reaching as close to the vision as possible. Essentially, question one gets us to one high school at the Cooper High School New Hope Learning Center site. It allows for Robbinsdale Spanish immersion to move to Armstrong High School, keeps the middle schools intact, but improves the competition pool and diving well at Plymouth Middle, and turns the Samberg Middle pool space into additional multi-purpose space. This is important because we don't use our pools for instructional purposes and pools are very expensive to keep up and maintain. Additionally, question one provides for neighborhood schools to better meet the needs of our elementary students. Question one provides for high-quality learning spaces that are designed to support the demands of teaching and learning practices, the flexible hands-on learning spaces that I previously mentioned. These renovated spaces would allow the district to improve our career pathways programming, ensuring every co every graduate is college, career, and future ready. Our students need the knowledge and skills to successfully contribute to a robust workforce. Our students ask for and this question delivers safe and private single-use and ADA accessible restrooms that provide comfort and dignity for all. Additionally, question one reorganizes our elementary schools into more equitable neighborhood schools. There will be upgrades to arts, innovation, and special education spaces. Five schools will be expanded into four section schools, meaning four classrooms per grade level. Another elementary will be expanded to accommodate um pre preK and special education classes and uh to ensure that we have enough room for all of our elementary students. Question number two builds directly on question number one and asks voters to decide whether or not we should complete the entire vision. The major change is what moves to Armstrong High School because of the additional dollars provided for remodeling the Plymouth Middle School site. Essentially, Armstrong High School is now utilized as Plymouth Middle School in addition to other district programs. This is because it can provide Pilgrim Middle School with an auditorium. Sanberg Middle School then gets an approximately 400 seat auditorium in place of the multi-purpose room called out in question number one. With Plymouth Middle School empty, Robinsdale Robbinsdale Spanish School can move there along with other programs. Elementary remodeling stays the same. Both question one and two allow us to reduce our footprint and operate remaining buildings more efficiently. Question number three. This question continues to provide uh new neighborhood schools within the boundaries of Robbinsdale community by putting a new elementary school at the site of Robbinsdale Middle School. If this question were to pass, the board would also determine the best location for district-wide services and programming. Bond refere referendum is a voter decision. It's a decision on the direction voters want for our school district and for the students we serve. The total increase for community members with an average valued home if all three questions were approved is approximately $25 a month on a voterapproved $413 million bond. If the bond is improved approved by voters, the district will be able to implement many parts of the community created board-directed vision to reimagine Robindale Area School. We will remain and grow student opportunities, build stability with sustaining our district for the future, and align facilities with student enrollment, allowing us to lower operational cost, and eliminate spending on under underutilized spaces. The spaces envisioned in this bond referendum support active learners. These spaces allow for collaboration, small group intervention, and outdoor learning. Flexible learning spaces remove barriers so teachers can innovate, students can thrive. plans provide all students with programming space that includes arts and innovation, comprehensive career pathways, and specialized support spaces for special education. The bond refere referendum would allow us to build on work we have already done to make our buildings more secure and it addresses again what students have asked for with the single-use restrooms that are ADA accessible. If the referendum fails, the school district and district administration will need to make difficult decisions. These decisions will be based on efficiency of dollars rather than expanding opportunities for students. Budgets for any school district come primarily from four areas: staffing, buildings, transportation, and student programming. We've already reduced many staffing positions. We've eliminated some buildings. We have eliminated some transportation services. To date, we have not had to make significant reductions to student programming. However, those will be some of the decisions in front of us. If we can't get savings from reducing buildings, we'll need to reduce in other areas. You can see on the slide some of the potential um cutting measures. Some additional uh possibilities on this slide. Some of our most costly courses and activities are electives rather than state requirements. Student programming reductions and a loss of opportunities are not consistent with the reimagine Ardale Vision 2030 input and recommendations. The community envisions something better for our students. However, however, if the bond is not approved, we will need to make decisions based on efficiencies. The district is committed to transparency and to building trust. And this has been our goal and our commitment for the last two years. I've shared the facts of our current reality, how we've engaged the community in the options in front of the community. Now, the bond referendum provides a predictable path forward that includes the desired state of educational programming and opportunities identified by our community. We've heard and seen a lot of community pride. People see the communities that make up Robbinsdale Area Schools as a great place to live, work, learn, and play. This bond is about more than just a strategic decision. It is a shared commitment to putting students first and building better together for our kids, our staff, our families, and our community. We want to ensure that the community has the information they need to make an informed decision on November 3rd. It's our goal to present to as many different groups as possible uh in order to reach our our goal and our obligation of informing our community. So, please um help us board members by inviting and offering us to present and share information with groups. And this is also an invitation to our community. Uh if there are groups that would like to learn more, to hear more, we are happy to present uh wherever you would like us to be. There's also a plethora of information um on our website. You can see that we have part of our website uh is um for uh information about the bond. So we've got spaces of FAQs and continued information will be coming around that. So thank you very much for the opportunity to share this. Like I said, we want to be sure that we are um doing everything that we can to educate our community and inform them um about the ballot question. Thank you. >> [snorts] >> Um, are you accepting questions or do you want them emailed to you or >> Yeah, I don't I um certainly can answer questions. There's no in new information in this presentation, but it certainly is the first time that the board uh has heard the presentation. So, uh happy to happy to answer questions. >> I saw director Long first and then director Basset. >> Yes. So my first question is I have you know the plan has changed multiple times um for various reasons and so can we get a one pager sorry Helen to steal your one pager but can we get a one pager of what it includes for question one question two and question three um because the other question I keep getting asked is you know when people are looking back on the changes it's like well where Does ESC go? And in question one and two, it says ESC's at Lake View. But then question three, they're like, it is it at Crystal? Isn't it at Crystal? What happens? Because that last time that we met, we had that whole discussion about, you know, the community really wants Crystal to be used as an elementary school or used for students, right? Not as an ESC. So, if Crystal's out of the picture, then where is ESC going to go? So there's just since it changed so much, there's just too many questions about which plan are we really going with and then there was what KTPS said and then what you know CCX said and you know so if we could get like a one pager of what exactly that is so that people know cuz that's causing a lot of confusion and that community. >> Thank you Director Long because that's the last thing that we want to do. Um we certainly will have more marketing materials out. I think that the uh the presentation and I'm probably going to need help with the date, but the last presentation as the board was um was approving the bond language. I know we had some pictures on that that I think kind of told the story as well. So, we'll have to figure out the best way for people to have this, but you are right. Right. And um what we heard from the board when we were doing the ballot language is that question about where the ESC goes should questions one, two, and three be approved. And what we said at that time is there's going to be options at as that time comes and we'll see where we've got appropriate space and then what's what the board direction um we get with that. But thank you because the last thing we want is for anything to be confused. We can certainly do that and make sure we have lots of copies of them. >> Yeah. Yeah. And then answer that question too. If if not crystal fair then where? >> Yeah. And I think part of that, you know, I I think part of where we're at with a with the scope of this project. Um I don't know that we can say exactly today. Part of it will be what's our enrollment look like, where are all those other spaces, but we would know that the board would not want it to be at Fair Crystal as as you said if that's the direction that we got from the board. So we can for sure do that. >> Okay. So then my other question is so you know we got this information during our retreat from the MSBA about the referendum and so on here it has some um things about funding or expenditures for it. So when are we as a board going to have that discussion about the expenditures around this referendum because it says you know it needs to be a reasonable amount of money and the board needs to determine what that reasonable amount is. So, when will the board be having a discussion to determine that reasonable amount? >> I'm just reading it directly from >> No, I appreciate it. I've never had that conversation before and even though it says that, I haven't. You know, I think when the board directed uh the calling of the election, there are certainly expenses with both running the election and then our responsibility to have marketing materials available um for our community. So, um we can certainly have that conversation about what those expenses look like. We could give you trend data on uh what the expenses were in the 2024 um uh election if that's helpful and uh get some direction from that. That's fine. [snorts] >> Good. >> Yeah. Thank you, Director Basset. >> Well, my first question and I'll yield to somebody else before I ask my second one. Uh so this my question has to do with if uh if re if number one passes but number two doesn't. uh in some of the previous slides that we got, uh it was nice to have the dollar amounts kind of written on there. Uh but I'm wondering about what the delta is if one passes. Uh because two is contingent upon one, but one stands alone. If one passes, there's nothing that says that the community has to vote for two or three. They don't have to. Uh they're just dependent on one, but one can pass and then the other things wouldn't happen. So, as I thought about that, I looked at uh I wondered about um specifically a couple things. Um expanding I wondered about the utilization rate for the community pool at Sandberg uh or Plymouth Miller rather because uh if we have a community pool and we're looking at investments that uh deepen the pool to make a competition uh is there a market out there we're shooting for? Um because to make it competition that would indicate there's a market for that. Uh, and I we I don't think we've ever really talked about that. So, but my primary question has to do with um the cost the delta between if one passes and two dozen and two dozen, how much what's what's the dollar amount because uh we're not we're only I wish we had those charts that that was a good chart that had the numbers right on it. I think that's why you're talking to the cost of each one. >> Can we find that slide? >> Yes. So I don't know. >> Yeah. So while we're looking at that, so so two things. First of all, um in terms of the competitive pool we currently host at Plymouth Middle for all of our Minnesota State High School League uh competitions that we host, we host them there. It is a less than adequate competition pool in comparison to other facilities. And the diving well is not at the required uh of depth. So, we have to actually rent space at the um lifetime in Plymouth for the diving portion. So, our swim and dive team doesn't get to practice as a team and compete as a team in the same facilities. >> Okay. So, which goes back to the you the current utilization there right now. uh and when I think about community uh because you said it was not for for instruction was one of the comments that was on >> currently we don't have swimming as part of our curriculum correct >> swimming is not part of the curriculum so my mind immediately went to what is the utilization rate now and who utilizes it that's was my question I hear what you're saying about need you know how it would benefit I'd hear that part but that wasn't my question >> executive director Williams can you speak to that >> thank you for your question >> you know I can't hear good you know >> um okay I I spoke speaking up now. Um so what we what's currently happening at the at our pools is we do have we we use them for rentals. So three things we have our swim teams you know Cooper Armstrong swim teams um we use them for rentals community rentals and then we offer community education swim lessons. So our pools are used regularly regularly uh Monday through Friday um typically from 400 pm to almost 900 p.m. daily. >> Well let me just say this. I think that uh when I think about utilization that's been very helpful what you just said but when I think about utilization I wonder about volume numbers of you know you said days of the week how much money what what is what does that mean in in in data >> the data around it I mean how how many people used it over the period of time and you because that helps me understand what is the loss to the community >> if you know or the gain the gain or the loss and uh because that was not we never really talked about that aspect of it. >> Um I I appreciate the superintendent's comments about the high school league, but um so maybe you could say more about that. When the high school league is has a competition and our kids are in it, they are practicing elsewhere >> swimming or for diving. diving they are >> for diving they are uh and I don't have the context about how much that swimming is so we currently have the two pools that's one at Samberg one at at Plymouth as you're aware um Samberg pool is not used as a competition pool at all that is that's solely a practice pool that does not have um the ability to dive or even to and we're not talking just diving for like dive team but even to dive into the pool um off of a diving board because of the depth of the pool um And Plymouth Middle School is our competition size pool. Um once again, uh but we cannot do our diving competitions there. So we do those at the Plymouth and the Lifetime Plymouth. Um I can get you data on um the number of swimmers we have on our swim teams. I can get you data on the number of uh participants who participate in the community education swim program. I I won't have the data on the number of participants who participate in like our rental clubs, >> but but I can get I can tell you who our rental clubs are and I can tell I can get you data on on the revenue that we bring in. >> I think that those are important questions because one of the things that was in the presentation tonight the superintendent provided to us was what happens if it doesn't pass? Because what happens if it doesn't pass impacts all of these questions. uh and so understanding what the scope of that is and the demand of it is may argue for greater investment for where we do allocate dollars. You know, I mean, I don't think anybody wants to take anything off the table if we don't have to. But it's helpful to know and I I as I sit here right now, I have no idea what the utilization rate for the pool is. So, what are we buying? If uh if one does pass, then we keep them at their current site and all the rest of it, but we're investing dollars and making it a competition pool. So, the cost of what it costs for us to lease space for our teams compared against the cost for building becomes a data point. that is helpful to understand because it helps me understand what is the full scope of impact if it does or doesn't pass how how you know what what difference does that make so I appreciate your answers and I appreciate that you will put together whatever you can um and the primary uses right now just off the top you would say are for leasing it renting the space to others is that what we're doing >> the primary use is for swim team that's the primary use during the swim season our students are primary >> dur during the swim season. That's the primary use and then secondary use will be a combination between rentals and community education classes. >> Okay. Well, I look forward to seeing what you share share with us. Um and then uh Super Were you looking at me? >> Yeah. Well, you were asking about the costs for each. If you look at slide 19, I think >> it's not numerated. You I'm talking about this package is what we have right here. Mine aren't numerated. So, if yours >> Oh, keep turning. >> Okay. >> It's got that that one. That one. That one. >> This one. This one. This one. >> Look at that one. And could you >> uh Oh, if approve of the B level cost. So >> more. It's got the three little houses. >> Oh, it's numerated on the side. Um, I don't think so. >> Right there. >> This one. I was looking at that one >> right here. >> Approximately $15. >> And I'm talking about total cost, you know. I mean because you before had uh the um assistant superintendent had provided information to us on those slides and had >> this is 340 you know 30 whatever it was. >> Yep. >> The uh we did some presentations in July and then the one that we started with in June June 15th has a pretty clear breakdown. Uh the question one was coming in around 343 million and question two adds about 17 million to that. So, right back to around the 360 million mark, uh, is where we're at. So, 343 and 17. >> Thank you. So, if two doesn't pass, it's $17 million left off the table that we're not asking voters for. >> But, but it will have an impact on how we bring together number one. >> Okay. That's that's helpful to know. I mean, because the way it's presented with them all coupled together is hard to tease out what's the impact, you know? Uh, so I I really appreciate that because then $17 million less on that. [snorts] Well, I think maybe many people may know I like number three, but anyway, so number three at 50 million, you know, that's 17 less than that. So, I mean, I'm just saying and I don't want to go down that road because it speaks for itself. Um, but I did have another question, but I will yield to somebody else if they have a question right now. >> Yes. Director Bowman actually has a question comment. >> Um, regarding the uh cost of the referendum, I think it's customary or has been customary in the district to have a fundraising component of it so that the district doesn't um uh absorb all the costs of that and I think I saw that in some of the literature. Do you know is that going to be is that also I I don't expect you to have an answer tonight, but I mean um um I know that 30 years ago and in some of the other ones that I've been to, they they raised money to help run the the referendum and I just didn't know if that was going to be a component. >> There's two different things, >> okay? >> It's the district's responsibility to inform the voters. The district people cannot say you need to vote this way. where as a community group could have a fundraiser and could encourage people to vote one way or another. And so the money that the district is informing the public doesn't use a fundraiser, does it? >> Correct. No, we have we would have a budget set aside for elections and then we would look to see what again what does that trend look at in terms of how much um we spend. You're right. It's an obligation of ours to inform and educate the community and we certainly can't do that without some cost associated uh with marketing materials, video make materials, mailers, um all those things. >> Thank you. That was really that was helpful. Appreciate it. >> Dr. Basset, do you figure out your followup? >> I Yeah, I do. I have too. And so one of them is that uh if I recall correctly, I think that what we understood from the Leatherman report is that the combined um tax tolerance number was like was it to in total was like $22. Am I remembering that correctly when you add not remember? Well, I didn't think I was when I'm asking the question. Uh because yeah, that's my question. >> We can look it up to be accurate off the top of my head. I don't know what the dollar amount was, but it was uh between the $10 and $15 mark was uh the broad sweep, but we can look it up and uh get that information back to you. >> Okay. But I thought that it ended up being some additional two. So that would be helpful because I thought it ended up being a little slightly higher than that. >> Say again, $10. What What did you just say? I I believe what he presented was a range between 10 and $15. >> That's the 15. Okay. Between 20 and 15, >> but I will check to see on that again. >> All right. >> Exactly what's presented. >> And all things taken together, one and two right now exceeds that. If I'm looking, where's that little chart at? >> One and two together is $17 a month. >> Yeah. So, not significantly, but slightly. Well, and that's why in the presentation I spoke to, you know, what we originally had presented to the board, which goes back to Director Long's question about why things have changed, right? We had some recommendations that came forward to the board. We did get the survey information data from Peter Leman. We wanted to honor what we heard from our community about the tax tolerance which is why we lessened that and moved it into uh suggested to the board moving it into two different questions to honor what the taxpayers were saying. >> I remember that. Thank you. So one last question then uh chair. >> Okay. And so as I look at this I see that um there is um for example the phasing One of the things that's talked about in um number two or um I think it was in the the one that talked about if uh if it doesn't pass uh because that really I'm thinking about that you know of course I've talked about plan B before so I mean I still think it bears thinking about and so I'm thinking about this whole notion of of phasing uh because uh one of the things that I have read is that we would for example um if it's not approved what you've said here draw high school attendance boundaries to maximize enrollment at or near capacity at one school while decreasing enrollment at the other for district-wide services and programming. So, um, visioning out what that might look like and phasing it out in terms of what it might look like, uh, will be helpful as we go through this whole process because now there's time between now and November to really, um, think a little bit more deeply about those things because at the end of the day, what people are either going to vote for it or they're not. So if [snorts] they don't vote for, you know, if it doesn't pass, then what kind of phased uh approach to this might the administration be thinking about? Because to the point that was made at listening hour tonight, uh, parental planning for shifts in terms of where the students might go, all of those things and even the changes that you might uh recommend based on our reality. Um, so you've talked about maximizing space for example at the one high school at both of them really. One of them just have more more high school students and the other one would do different things. So just even in thinking about phasing that in what makes sense. I mean a little bit more definition helps us all understand what that looks like. And not only is it is it good for us for visioning, it's also good in pra for practical application because [snorts] uh it will help people make decisions because they're not make they're making decisions based on what we're sharing but they're making decisions based on what they think or or what they are interested in or what they would like to see happen cuz we're not the only ones who get division. They all do, you know, and so as they are doing that, the the more you can help us, me included, the understand how you would phase that in because one of my wonderings is if we're trying to move all the kids over to one high school, what's happening? Because there's going to become a point in time where we're building on and working on it. They wouldn't we wouldn't be able to h house students at the same time that for example, Cooper is being worked on. So where do all those kids go in the meantime? Let me ask you one of the things that I wondered. >> I think I'm I'm confused by your question. What I first of all, one thing I heard you say was that we've got time between now and November. I want to be with all due respect, I want the board to understand, and this is one of the things I talked about with my goals is where I would think that you would expect the bulk of my time and my team's time to be in the next three months is to be sharing with the community. So, so in terms of how we use our time right now, that will be where our efforts go. And certainly, right, we have to be thinking about uh if this doesn't pass. So, I just wanted to say that. But then in terms of Excuse me. Excuse me. In terms >> I appreciate what you just I mean, I appreciate what you said. I don't want to in any way for you to think that I'm saying you should stop what you're doing and start doing that. I'm just saying that we'll come to that place in November. They'll either vote for it or won't. >> Yep. And then we'll we'll and then like I said, what we'll have forward is a less predictable path. So that's part of not being able to lay out exactly what's going to happen at that point. What we talked about is if it doesn't pass, it is maximizing every building for efficiency purposes, not necessarily for what's best for students or student programming. So there wouldn't be work done if it doesn't pass. there wouldn't be work being done on the on the buildings. So, I was just a little confused with that part of the question. I hear what you're saying. Assistance. Okay. >> I hear I hear you're that's a fair fair point. If it doesn't pass, we're not going to be going down with those buildings right away. I mean, you know, they're going to be there. But if it does pass, the question then presents itself, what happens? How are we moving those? >> Yeah, we've talked a little bit about that because if it if it passes, >> again, this is >> four, five years down the road. There's a lot of construction that happens before we do that high school move. Um, and we would maintain, we've seen this with other school districts that have done law large uh renovation projects and at their high schools is a wing may be closed or a piece of the building may be closed as they're building, but we wouldn't be shutting down the school while we're doing construction. >> Well, in no way do I am I implying that because you've got to, you know, do all this work first. I'm not implying that you that you don't have that to do, >> you know, but but I am actually wondering as I think many people will do is what is the path forward and I would like for us to consciously be thinking about what was asked tonight which is the fewest moves of students as possible. I mean it's those values that I'm trying to get at more than you know the logistics will take care of themselves. >> Yeah. No, I respect that 100% and we'll certainly be looking at that. Again, what we've been trying to solve for and through community uh input and board direction is how do we get to a financially stable place? How do we get out of statutory operating debt? How do we ensure the sustainability of this school district? And that's, you know, that's the work right now. >> Okay, Director Brentesen, thanks for your patience. >> No worries. Uh two questions. uh both around kind of this uh towards the end of the slide around if the bond isn't passed. You kind of give these different options there. I just want to be really clear because someone who's watching this may think these are set decisions. Pretty much everything on this list would have to go through board approval or some form of board approval before like voting no doesn't like magically enact all of these things immediately or anything like that. >> Yes, correct. And that's and that's why we were we were um cautious and hopefully it's clear with the slides and maybe I didn't say it to the degree that I need to the potential cost cutting decisions. So appreciate you you calling that out that yeah there will be a lot of decisions that will have to be made um certainly through recommendations uh from administration but through board approval. >> Okay cool. And then following up on that in terms of kind of timeline and maybe this will go to the CFO, but when I look at the SOD documents and I think about where we are financially, right, we know that there's cuts coming for the next fiscal year, right? We know in 20 at the end we're balanced budget this year. Next year we have about 2 million. The following year we have about 2 million we need to cut just to be balanced. and the year after fiscal 29. It looks like we're pretty even that year. So, does it really start to fall off then in fiscal 30 then? And that's where some of these larger cuts to get back to balance would need to occur. Is that kind of am I reading this slide cor or not this slide but the sod and kind of putting these two things together correctly? I >> did I ask that clearly enough? >> Well, I I think you did. Um, again, I I always open with the caveat of, you know, what I hear sometimes is nowhere near what people intended. Um, so if I miss, please ask again. >> Mhm. >> What I would say is that rollup costs, inflation, what have you. Um, right now we're pacing for two and $2.5 million. And I had said at the beginning um before we were actually uh officially identified as being an SOD that if we were able to make cuts upfront early on in the process, it prevents the compounding effect of a deficit which means greater cuts moving forward. >> So I would not say um that there's a lag per se. It would be unusual um for us not to have inflationary costs, whether that be through employment contracts or utilities or uh what have you. However, with the cuts that have been made so far, it it um tames the amount of ongoing cuts that we need to do because there isn't a compounding factor of deficit moving forward. [snorts] the farther out we get, the more challenging the predictability is because enter stage left the state and the federal government. >> Um, and but I think, you know, when you're looking at the documents, fair enough. I just would I wouldn't say that we become nothing and then it gets big again. And we also need to keep in mind that the reductions that we're making or anticipate like when you use 2 million or 2.5 million that's to balance the budget. That's not to eat away at a deficit fund. >> Correct. Yeah. And that was going to be my point. Right. Like so when we talk about those numbers the two and a half the two and a half right and whatever it is and 29 that's us carrying forward that same sod number the entire time. we have to start chopping away with that at some point in time long term. We can't just live it out for the rest of eternity. So that's all I was trying to clarify. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Okay, Director W. >> Yeah. Uh just back to the presentation. I just have a quick question. I know it's just been one city so far. >> Yeah. Has there been any questions asked in the audience that might pron your direction to either add more weight to one part of this presentation versus the other that you were willing to share with the board? >> Yeah, it's and it was so great and we said that that night and I'll say it every time we present. The questions that we hear help us um make sure that we are as clear as we think we are, right? We've been living this world and most people don't. um specific to Plymouth uh city council. They had probably more questions about what happens with the Armstrong building and Plymouth Middle School. So for that one, making sure that we were really clear with what does number question one do um and how does that impact Armstrong High School? What is question two? So moving forward, I think we'll probably especially when we're we're presenting to specific cities, we'll make sure that we're very at the ready for the buildings within their their uh boundaries. Um otherwise, I don't think team were there other questions, but we encourage those because it's going to help us. We we do not want people confused. We want people making decisions and voting based on understanding the information and there's there's a lot of information here. So we want to be sure that we are clearly speaking and showing written things through some of the noise so that people can understand it. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Anybody else have a question comment? Okay. Thank you very much. keep on giving those presentations. Next thing on our agenda is the consent agenda. Items on the consent agenda are routine in nature and can be enacted with one motion. There'll be no separate discussion of the items unless a board member requests to do so, in which case we'll remove that item from the consent agenda and address it separately. Uh the consent agenda items on tonight's agenda are uh a tenative agreement with the principal contract, meeting minutes, the financial reports for the dis the dispersements for um August 4th, 2026, and the personnel reports uh the license and the non-licensed. >> I'll move approval. >> Okay. Uh but first, Director Long. >> Um I would like the tenative agreement with the principles to be pulled. >> Okay. We will we will vote on the tenative agreement of the princip principal contract separately. Uh now director Bowman you were saying >> move approval >> with the with the omission of the tenative agreement. >> Okay. seconded by director Wuto. And as far as discussion goes on this, I just want to say Lori Kpsus is retiring as an EA in preschool after 24 years and Kimberly Anderson is retiring after 13 years as a special ed. We wish them well and we thank them for their service to our students. Okay. Um I don't see any the rest of this is non-discussible really. So let's take the roll call vote. >> We'll do. Thank you. Uh, Director Wuto, >> yes. >> Director Long, >> no. >> Director Hillbrand, >> yes. >> Chair Evans Becker, >> yes. >> Director Brennesen, >> yes. >> Director Bowman Marks herself voting yes. And Director Basset, >> yes. >> Okay, >> motion prevails. >> So, we have accepted the consent agenda. Now, it is time for us to talk about the tenative agreement with 25 to 27 principal contract. Is there a move to approve? >> I'll move to approve. >> Moved by Director Bowman, seconded by >> I'll second. >> Director Hill Helen Brand. >> Okay. Did you have some questions? >> Yeah. Could we have the director of HR go through the specifics of this? >> Executive director or Hearn. >> Thank you. Good evening, Chair Chair Evans Becker, uh, board directors, superintendent Stalo. I will go through the items on the tenative agreement. So the salary increase for 2526 will be 2.5%. The salary increase for 2627 is 85%. Um that salary will be retroactive back to July 1st of 25. There is a longevity stipen that will be started in at the end of the 2627 school year and that stipen will take place 5 years after the completion of step 8 of the principal contract meaning that they will have to be in the principal contract for a total of 13 years. um cons uh conference attendance. To attend a conference, they'll have to have upon supervisor approval added. So, we're going into the non-economic pieces now of the contract. We added one personal leave day to their contract. So, instead of five personal leave days in a year, they will have six. They will be able to roll one personal leave day into the next contract year, but in no year can they have any more than six contract or six personal days in one contract year. We have removed 6-1 leaves of absence with pay for sbatical. So we've taken that sbatical leave out of the principal contract. they are no longer eligible to take a sbatical within their term as a principal in Robbinsdale Area Schools. So that financial component that was a um a um what is a cost within that contract? So it is um oh exposure. So our financial exposure to that sbatical, so we have 37 principles in our district. Our exposure is for 37 sbaticals potentially that we could be open to. So we took that out of their of their contract. Then they did not have language in their contract for long-term disability. They have been paying long-term disability for the last many years. They were the only contract that did not have the language in their contract. So we added the language. We also added language around Minnesota paid family leave and we changed the language um around seniority determination. So it is not just strictly based off of the time of hire, but also we have flexibility from the district's perspective on being able to place principles and assistant principles based on need within the elementary, middle school, and secondary. Um depending on where we're at within seniority, but also the needs within the district. Um the salary schedule again we have moved to a 24 pay period as with all of the other contracts in the district and principles are able to sell back their unused sick leave after their fifth year in the district and we removed the sixth year. So after their fifth year, they can sell back up to um 15 sick days. And then when an employee um at the time of retirement, if an employee um a spouse of the retired employee accepts so we took out become eligible for Medicare or accepts Medicare. Um so we just changed some language in the retiree um portion under 11-1. And that are the terms of the TA for the principal contract. >> I don't know. Does anybody else have any other questions? Otherwise, I have a question. >> Okay. >> I don't see any others. >> Basset said she had a question. >> Dr. Basset. >> Thank you. So, um I have a couple of questions and one kind of has to do with the way that the this is laid out. uh director Horn uh talks about the financial package and then the other ones are non economic but some of these do uh inure [snorts] cost they're not costneutral that's a kind of a question the some of these aspects are not costneutral >> tell me more >> well there's a co there's a cost to you know, I mean, if you do X and and you make promises for X, you have to pay X at a given time. So, there is a physical >> conferences. >> Well, I mean, I didn't even talk about conferences. I'm talking about some of the things. And so, what I wasn't clear about is if this is new if if there's new language in here where the new language shows up. I for example I didn't know uh if um uh oh there was a ch was there new language in the longevity or new language in the long-term disability um just and if it has not been before but it's newly inserted into the contract that's new. So it's not totally clear to me what's new and what's not. I'm I'm making assumptions based on what I see stricken, but the things that are presented here, I I I I don't have any assurances if they were already there and it's just a tweak or if it's something totally new. I I have no way of knowing. That's one point. I mean, >> to clarify, your document is only in black and white and ours on the we we can see the changes. That's >> Well, good. So, I'm you know, I mean, I I I thank you. Thank you u you know chair however I I'm just saying I I don't see that and many people may be looking at it in black and white you know as as far as that is concerned and so for me if I'm looking at this in black and white and that's many people you know who may who may look at this and that's even moot in many documents if you're doing new things there is an indicator that the viewer looks at and maybe it's just in red in these but in other documents and as you know I always get my written packet so you know unless I go back and take a look I won't know if it's different or not and sometimes I have the opportunity to do that sometimes I don't many people don't have it at all so I'm just saying in many documents there's an indicator as to if there's new language maybe there's just a prompt or it's in brackets or whatever it is so that it's quickly called out that it's new so there are some things in this contract that are new is that accurate >> yeah all the things in red are you. >> Okay. Well, I I'm not looking at it in red. I'm looking at it right here in black and white. And so, since you're conversing with it, um any section that quickly cuz it's only, you know, a couple pages, uh what areas are new? So, 8.3 longevity up under financial. So you are correct that that is a financial component up under the um financial package. >> I don't have 8.3. >> It's at the very beginning. It says one >> longevity. >> Oh yeah, I wrote over it. Okay. Yes. 8.3 >> and some of the language. So the conference when you talk about the conference being a cost the language under conference attendance we just changed the language that conference attendance has always been in the contract >> well >> so >> that the cost was already there >> and and and I'm not being nitpicky so some of the things for example conferences we want our staff to to go to conferences we want them to get the information they need the state sets aside a certain dollar amount for professional development that's not I'm saying when there significant changes that will have a fiscal impact. I'm looking to you to point those out. >> Chair, can I could I make a suggestion? This was pointed out and you don't because you have a printed version and you're not looking online. You don't have where it's printed out. Might I suggest that we print out this in color so that director Basset has it and we don't spend time now reviewing what was on in the board packet. Well, I appreciate that, Superintendent, but the what's important to me is that not only do I understand it, that the community understands it. >> And I think the community that sees it on the online would see it in the red. >> That is true. But when I'm thinking about it, I'm thinking about it in terms of the fiscal impact for the future. So, I'm pausing not only to say what's new, which I asked because I wasn't conversing in that. I'm asking because I want to understand in this contract, not only this one, all of them in the contract when there's new language that has a fiscal impact as a board director here, I want to be familiar with it and understand it. So spit in a little bit more time to talk about what might make that easier to do because I usually try to look at the other one as well. But the main point is so that we understand as a board when we're making commitments that have a fiscal impact. That's really the heart of it. So I'm I'm still talking. I'm not quite done. >> I'm just being asked to put on I just wanted to share that with you. >> Something to do with you. >> Okay. So anyway, back to the main point. >> And so that's news. So what so my question then was not so much about conferences, which is where I was, but was to say if there are some things that may have some significant impact down the road. Part of how a board gets into statutory operating debt is that when things that have a fiscal impact come up, we may or may not totally understand the potential impact down the road. Bottom line, that's the job. And any inference that is anything different than that. It's not. It's not a personal vendetta at all. I like and respect our principles. But that's not what this is about. This is about looking at a contract that we're preparing to uh approve and we know we had parameters. We've gone outside of those parameters for our teachers and we had to make significant cuts as a result of that. A lot of staff positions got cut when we made those teacher when we passed that teacher contract. So um you know I'm not asking this because I'm trying to be argumentative business. >> Okay. Director Hillbrand and then Director Long. I'm fine if if >> did you have something? I >> I just wanted to be clear and and you you didn't ask the question, but I just want to be clear with the public and the board that this contract was settled within the board approved parameters. >> So, I just want to state that again. >> Thank you, Director Helen Brand. >> Yeah. First of all, I I just want to say that thank you, Director, because you did go through all of the points with us. You've read it all at love because Director Long asked you to, which I appreciate. And you did go through all of the points and the changes. Um, so thank you. Um, and sometimes it does take a little bit to digest all of these. So, but you did go through all these and many of these have to do with um, like paid family leave. That's legal. There's nothing you could do about that. um thing. I appreciate that you were just putting in codifying things that were already practiced like the um the long-term disability. That was the one. Yep. Okay. So, um yeah, most of these are pretty standard. Um so, I appreciate it and I appreciate the work that you did on it. That's really what I wanted to say. I know these are very difficult to do and um you have a lot of groups that you've been doing. I think you pretty much all except one contract is this year. So really all I wanted to say is thank you for your work on this. Um because we've already talked about all these other pieces so I don't need to re talk about them. So I just wanted to say thank you for that. That was all. >> Director Long. >> Yeah. So I guess I don't remember us the conversation around the parameters around this. Um and I you know I feel like we need to have a close session about the EAS around the parameters about that. I see there's coming up one about the custodians. But I would like for us to know what is the total cost of this uh package for the principles because last time us as a board, you know, and I know this was before our new administration was on here, but we got to know for each bargaining unit what their total cost was. So just wondering about that. >> Didn't we talk about that when we were in that office? >> Nope. >> And plus then we can't talk about that. Nope. >> But we did. >> We can't talk about that. But yeah, but no. And so is there a way can we have that information emailed to us about the total cost of this principal package? >> That'd be fine. >> Certainly. >> Thank you. >> Okay. One one last comment, >> director Basset. Um, you know, I think that, um, you know, I appreciate, uh, here you saying remember if you if it's printed, it's not going to have red on it. I do appreciate that. I do. Um, but I also, uh, want to really make the point and the gravity [snorts] of the point that, you know, indic discussing board and uh, cabinet, what are some indicators? And you are one of the ones and others come forward with new information. if there's some indicators to say it's new. Just asking for that is reasonable, you know, I mean that's not a reasonable hard ask and uh and so I don't think that uh that's untoward. I don't feel like it is. I feel like it's business as usual. So I appreciate the presentation as well and I appreciate the the question about total cost. Uh, and I appreciate when we have closed sessions and I routinely ask for us to have closed sessions all the time and because I prefer to ask the kinds of questions that I ask in a closed session. I mean, that would be my preference. Not because I'm trying to hide anything, but I'm also not trying to get you. I've never been a get you kind of board member. Never. When I ask a question, it's because I have a question. That's it. >> Long. >> Yeah. So, this is just kind of a point of clarification thing, you know. So, often times when we get these packets, they're just in black and white. So I'm just wondering if going forward if maybe those ones can be in color but then I'm thinking the cost of that maybe could we do underlining of changes so that there is some differentiation in that for us going forward for those of us who get the paper packet. Sorry and you don't have to give me an answer right now. It's kind of just a point of clarification but just trying to figure out how we can make a distinction going forward in the future in our black and white copies in our packets. >> Okay. just a rhetorical rhetorical >> can hang out there in the air, but it would [clears throat] be nice because then we could see exactly what the changes are without it being read and you know. >> Okay. [snorts] Thank you. Seeing no more hands or flags, um we have a motion on the floor to approve the tenative agreement for the principal contract for 2527 and we need a roll call vote. >> Great. Thank you. I'm prepared for that. Um, [clears throat] Director Brennesen, >> yes. >> Chair Evans Becker, >> yes. >> Director Basset, >> yes. >> Director Bowman [snorts] votes yes. Director Hillbrand, >> yes. >> Director Long, >> yes. >> Director Wuto, >> yes. >> Motion unanimously carries. >> Hooray. Okay, let's move on to unfinished business. First item, the only good first item on the unfinished business is to review the draft of superintendent goals for 2627. And we talked about these goals at our study session last meeting. Gave some input and we now have the draft in our packet. Superintendent Stella. >> Yep. Thank you very much. Um I did on August or July 20th um ask for input from the board. Again I think part of the board's uh responsibility in terms of determining goals that make sense for the superintendent is how you envision in the next 12 months. Um how you would expect me to allocate the bulk of my time getting given the context of the district. So what I heard from you at that uh at the input that you provided was something about uh the referendum information campaign in the implementation of statutory operating debt in order to get us to a better fiscal place. Um I also heard things around the district system of continuous improvement and the both the implementation and outcome data align to the four strategies um of our strategic plan. And I also heard things about community engagement. So it was those four things that I used your input to create goals. Um I the board has adopt adapted the uh Minnesota schoolboard association standards and elements. So I used that information to align my goals to those. Um, I also sent you today the sample uh template provided by MSBA about the sample goal template so you could see an example of what they have in their manual compared with what I gave you. Uh, I thought that might be helpful as well. So, uh, as a reminder per the contractual obligations, the goals um are to be approved by September 1st. So input on July 20th. You have a draft in front of you now and then uh seek approval on August 17th. >> Thank you, Director Basset. >> Well, um I um actually was doing some research and and talking to um some people in community and so uh I think that related to the superintendent's goals is our ongoing discussion about board goals that we've not landed on yet. So, uh, now I was breathing mountain air at the last meeting, so I wasn't here, which also got me a little off, um, schedule. But one of the things that I did in talking to uh some of our um colleagues uh city colleagues and others about uh goal setting um because and I think that one of the things that struck me in the last one is that qualitative data is important. [snorts] Qualitative data is measurable. metrics are measurable and I think that I'd like for the board and maybe we can get a copy but I was really impressed by a document that I've got from one of our cities and that's the city of New Hope on their performance measurement and smart goals. I think that uh for our board and others and then one person we do hire who is our superintendent to have some thought about that. I'd like for that to be uh and I'll I would volunteer to try to see if we can get copies of that but a link or something for all directors. I think it's helpful to think in terms of metrics for ourselves as much as a superintendent because qualitative data matters and we were wrestling with our own goals at our last meeting and metrics for how do we know we're making the progress we want to make that at the end of the day that's why you evaluate anything again it's not a gotcha it's that so I just thank you for reminding us that we have a bit more time before we actually are going to finalize these. If I understood you correctly, we'll talk about them get again for a vote at a future time. So, I would like to have the board have access to uh this document. >> I just have a clarifying question. Do you mean qualitative or do you mean quantitative? >> Both. I like both. I mean, >> because you kept saying metrics, but then you said qualitative, so I was getting confused. >> Director Hill. >> No, I'm just trying to understand. I I understand I mean combat question I understand your question and so and it's a good question because I think we need qualitative and quantitative data >> give telling me that that we all had we had five listening sessions you know how do we measure how how effective that was >> no I agree I was >> well okay well thank you for the question because it gives me an opportunity to clarify it and I'm saying I think we also I would like us to be focused on how we develop metrics around certain things we agree on that we want to measure and then qualitative and quantitative data will tell the story. >> Okay. >> Okay. Great. >> Got that. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Uh Director Long, did you have a comment on the goals? >> Yes. Yes, I do have one. I guess you know during um our time too when we were talking I had asked for measurable you know cuz we were at that time we were talking about board um the board evaluation that we did on ourselves and in there it talked about having for the board smart goals. So I had suggested something like that where it's something that's kind of more measurable. Um, the other thing that I'm worried about too is some of the language in here like leading the process uh for this bond. I'm worried about it uh getting into that uh legal part where um you know the superintendent has to kind of watch what she's a part of and maybe not leading maybe a more neutral word there because I don't want to cause like a legal issue with that. So, I don't know if um it could be more like inform uh informative uh in a comprehensive in information to the public around uh the bond referendum versus leading it. >> But she is another word that would mean leading it. >> She [clears throat] is leading it. So, but according to this information, like we got to be careful here, like we can inform the citizens of it. Which is why I'm kind of asking for that change versus her saying that she's leading it cuz she's, you know, she can't lead this vote. Yes. Right. But she can give the information. So, when I'm reading on here evidence, she said in here it says lead. I'm asking for some more neutral wording there versus lead because I'm worried about the legality of what that might look like to somebody in the community. >> So help me out because what you're going to be doing is informational sessions, right? You're not leading this whole campaign in the second line. >> I'm saying so help me out. Right? because I'll it says the superintendent will lead the process to design and exec and execute a comprehensive community information campaign to educate all Robbinsdale area stakeholders including staff, students, families and community members on the building better together bond. So I am leading the process to design and then I'm leading my team to execute our role as a district to inform the community. So happy to take happy to take input, but I'm just I just want to be clear that that's that's what it says I'm leading, but happy to take input. >> Yeah. And I still feel like that comes across to me like borderline could be crossing some lines. And so I'd rather it be more neutral language there. >> You could ask our attorney since she's >> We can ask our attorney. >> Oh, do you have any concerns with that language? If she's here, we might as well. [laughter] >> I don't have concerns around the the language of leading the process um because I think that that's consistent with her um or with the district's requirements when it has a a referendum. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Um no, director Director Bridesen, >> thank you. Uh I I would just say two things. Uh I appreciate putting this together for all of us to look at. Uh I would echo where where possible, right? We talk about smart goals, right? We talk about measurable goals um to to you know what director Basset and director Long said, I think in each category or each goal, it would be good to have both qualitative and quantitative. The only other thing I would call out just to be aware of is like um we should probably define or refine some of the goals when you use terms like we'll provide increased opportunities for community engagement. That assumes we know what the number was to begin with to so to be able to measure an increase we'd have to know what was before to increase it to something else if that makes sense. So it just something you know I know it's word smithing but it's just something to be aware of. Thank you. Director Long, I think I cut you off. >> Yeah. And I guess Yeah. I was wondering too about some changes to, you know, structural process permanently improve. Like there's still just some things in there that are very subjective, you know, versus it's going to be hard to measure it, you know. Um like you know when we talk about um activities you know if if there's no measurable goal about what clearly that is or what the measurement that we are looking for then it's like oh yeah you know you could you know have had all these listening sessions or all these community gettogethers with low engagement which wouldn't generate the output that we're looking for and then is that really meeting the goal? So, I'm just worried that I'm looking at something here that with some of the wording and language, it's very subjective. Um, I'm not knowing where my starting point is, what what it means, like how many of this, how many of that would mean meeting that goal. And I want to make sure that I'm when I'm looking at these things, I'm understanding what it means to meet that goal or exceed that goal or whatever it is. when we come to that point like I need some hard data points added in here too. >> Director Hillbr and then director Basset. >> So I think um Director Long, you make a good point about like what the evidence is then for when when we're talking about meeting the goals, right? But also, I would say too that we do have a rubric here and uh that tells us what what it looks like when you're meeting or not meeting the goals, right? And I know a rubric is not what everybody's used to, especially I you're a teacher. I know that, but like not everybody is in education, not everybody uses a rubric. And um it's not always the way people are used to looking at these things. But we do have a rubric here to say what it looks like when it is highly effective or effective or not effective. Right? So we do have that to compare to the same way that when teachers grade students. So we do have that. Now, maybe that's not the way we want to be evaluating and that's that's a different story, but we do have that rubric here for when we look at the the [clears throat] um data that's provided to us to say does that data then say is that highly effective, not effective, whatever, right? And so I think that we have to figure out then what is the what is the information we want? because you're right. Just saying there were 20 community meetings doesn't tell me the effectiveness of the community meetings. Absolutely. I agree with you. Um so then it's a question of were there more community meetings? Were more people engaged in those average attendance higher like what is the data that would be helpful to us to have a better understanding. I agree with that. I don't know how we help develop that. So, >> okay. I I know Director Basset wants to talk and you have something. >> I don't think he's spoken before. So, if he wants to go, >> he said no. But I'm wondering if it would be a better use of our time to now that people have had one or two times to talk if we can send you uh if we can send you and copy me on suggestions. Superintendent. >> Sure. >> Does that make sense? All right. Director Basset still has a hand up and director Wong still has a hand up. >> Uh so um I actually the words monitor you know for example in this evidence performance too the superintendent will monitor and report on the process. I mean that's something that those words came to my mind not leading the process but monitor. You're monitoring all the stuff and you're reporting to us. You're telling us stuff. I mean that was just that's a small example. That's not the majority of where I'm coming from. where I'm coming from is I've already said about the qualitative and quantitative and so chair I will talk to the folks so because this is where I happen to get this one but it it looks at about metrics goals and objectives if I heard some of the comments from this from the board tonight about do we really want to think a little bit more about how we want to assess because the rubrics >> I'm sorry >> are you talking about us or are you talking about the super I'm well I'm going to tell you I mean I'm in the middle of saying it so uh I'm in the middle of saying that in terms of I have heard at least director Hillbrand director Brennan myself and director law say a way of looking at these metrics let's look at them a little closer and see do we want to make any refinement that's kind of what my interpretation of what's been said. If I'm accurate, it really marries up quite well with what I said at the outset. We have an example of a public agency that has looked at how do you how do you do come up with performance measurements and smart goals and reporting. I'm saying that might be a helpful document for us all to look at and thumb through. We may discard it out of hand. We may say there are a couple of things in here that really resonated with me. Uh the superintendent might say the same. You know, I'm saying that uh I think it would be a good idea for this board. I'm remembering not only that there was a part of the superintendent's discussion at the last meeting. I monitored just like director Brightensson is doing now. I participated. I didn't just monitor. I was participating. But uh I remembered the conversation and including when we start wrestling with board goals. And I'm saying since we want to be in sync with the superintendent, it makes some sense for all of you know to maybe take a look at this. If there's anything in it that we think makes sense for metric development, we just we use it. People, that's what happens all the time in public service. People find something a better mousetrap and they use it. So that's, you know, I'm just saying I'm send the link out. People can look at it, like it, not hate it, don't do anything, nothing. And whether or not that informs or changes this, maybe not, you know, at all. I mean, I I I'm just saying that we're talking about evaluation right now, we are. We talked about it a little bit at the last meeting. We talked, you know, I mean, we're going to talk about it again, you know, uh, and we went, from my perspective, we went around and around in circles at the last meeting. There was a lot of discussion. So, >> Superintendent, do you need to jump in? Um, well, I would just like to remind the board that you've spent hours with Barb Dorne from the Minnesota School Board Association with this document. This is the goals and standardsbased superintendent evaluation. I'm confident local cities and other agencies have great data as well. I guess I would ask consideration for what you heard from Barb Dorne about what it looks like for superintendent goals and I would just remind you of that that >> I've never abandoned that. >> Director Long and then Director Bowman. >> Okay, wait a minute. Director Bowman hasn't had a chance to speak. And since we're on this topic, I'm really concerned that we would bring in metrics from a different uh public agency when I've been told at this table that my services mayor uh that that service doesn't even count for information at this table. So I totally agree with what the superintendent is saying and that was what I was going to say. We have spent I don't even know the number of hours we have spent with the Minnesota Schoolboard Association with Barb Dorne with developing the metrics. Now, I'm all for having a metrics be um clearer if we need to or to be um more grounded in some factual information that you believe that you're not getting. But at this point, it really concerns me that we're two years into her leadership. Uh we've been on a pathway that this board has accepted MSBA as a way to uh uh create our documents to do that kind of stuff. And now we want to go to the League of Cities instead of going with because League of Cities is what you know the public agency that you're getting from New Hope that comes from the League of Cities. So, I I think we need to stick with what we agreed to a couple years back that we will use MSBA. Can they be approved? Of course, everything can be approved. But to all of a sudden now to think that we're going to bring in uh new documents that we're going to work at from a completely different entity that doesn't even work with students, I I find really concerning. I I think we have something good. I think that we can make our good better and our better best, but I think that we need to stay within the realm of of stay on the pathway that we're working. And if we have specifics of what you're not getting, that's one whole thing. But to sit up here for me and I'm not finding anything specific in your conversation. Where is the information gap? What gaps? and I don't want to hear it tonight, but if you want to send me anything, I would really be interested in seeing where the gaps are, where we're not seeing the information because I'm not having trouble with the information from her goals to the evaluation. So, I just really have some concerns and I'd like for us since we are so new at really even having a procedure and protocol that's linked to uh you know somewhat governance by policy. Could we just kind of stay on that path and not cloud things is what I would ask at this point. I'll read anything, but I am not I am unwilling to get into the middle of this and then just sort of decide nah, let's have something else because then we never get anywhere. So, and I again I don't need a rebuttal to that. Please send me all the information that you have. Be more than happy to see it, but I want to start seeing uh questions that deal with quantitative things rather than just sort of obscure notions that it's not enough information. >> Okay. Director Long, then Director Hillbrand, and then Director Basset. >> Yeah. So, I I wanted to go back to what Director Hillbrand said earlier about, you know, like the rubric, you know, I thought that was kind of like an interesting thought about, you know, so maybe we need to readjust the rubric, too, because the rubric that we have is just a generic rubric that could be used for anything. So, do do we need to take this rubric and make the rubric more measurable to what these things are on there? And then if so, then when when would we schedule that time as a board to sit down and make that rubric more measurable? >> I have a process question with that because we haven't identified what we're not we're so in the weeds with this that I am really concerned. I would like to know how it has failed us. That would be really helpful for me to think that we need to be developing new rubrics or developing it. It's not funny to me. I take it very seriously, Director Basset. >> I do, too. >> And I'm and I'm here to learn and I'm here to try to listen and I'm trying to figure out how where it is you all want to go and how we want to get going there. So, please can we more specific? >> What's your point of order? >> Wait, I will just No, point of order is that she just started talking and director Long was sharing what she shared and then director Bulma just barged in. And so, you know, having said that, she didn't want to have any rebuttals, I'm just saying, give her the respect of letting her say what she had to say. That's it. And and I and I somebody was next. I think it was director >> Director Long is still up. Oh, >> okay. >> Yeah, I had said it already. I just said it's just a general rubric. It isn't specific to this task. So, you know, when teachers have rubrics in their classroom, they that rubric specific to whatever it is you want the students to produce in this task, you know, and and this one is just general. So, I I think it was a good idea of what director Hillbrand said and so I just wanted to process that more as a board like it was an interesting thing you brought up. I appreciated it. Did we want to have more discussion on it or not? you know, I just threw it out there. So that's that was it. I think I pretty much already said it. It's a general rubric, you know. >> All right, Hillbrand. >> Yes. So, two things. One is we have a timeline contractual timeline and these need to be approved or some goals need to be approved at our next meeting. Correct. >> Correct. >> So, we have a timeline that we are under contractually. So, that's the first thing I want to remind everyone. The second thing is I think that my comments were somewhat misconstrued. I was saying that we have a rubric, we have a tool. The only thing that I thought that would be more helpful to me when it came time to to evaluating is maybe a little bit different um of the the um evidence, right? Um, that's all I was saying is that a little bit different evidence um because the some of it is comparative or some of it is stuff that I can't know like communication to staff was effective. I can't know how staff felt about it unless there's like a survey question and the results are given to me that says staff say the communication or 96% of staff say the communication was effective or highly effective or whatever. That's that's all I was trying to say. So, I think I was just misunderstood. I'm not saying that your points are right or wrong. I'm just saying that that wasn't what I was trying to get at with my comments. So, hopefully that just cleared up what I was trying to say. I am not trying to throw out the baby with bath water here. I think that we have a tool that is reasonable and workable and um especially with the time constraints think we should work with. So, >> Dr. Basset. >> Yep. So, um in So the point about uh maybe having more evidence is valid, which feeds right into what I was saying about qualitative and quantitative data points and information that is consistent. That's what that usually means. So and that's what I ask for. That's what I'm looking for. And I will further say that I've been one of the biggest advocates for the Minnesota School Boards Association documents all forever and I continue to be. However, just as when we get policies, the MSBA will tell you these are just some boilerplates. Each district needs to make it their own. And so my thought about sending you this document from the Minnesota uh from um new hope uh and you're right it came from legal legal Minnesota cities has kind of rubric because my mind is not so much on what they were doing was looking at the kinds of things that are our business and are there some prompts in there that can help us. That's it. At the end of the last meeting, we had a business meeting, then a work session, then talked about board goals, and at the end of that, I believe we talked about the superintendent's goals a little bit or or something about that. Well, but in any event, so I'm just trying to make the good use of our time that we have until we have to make a decision. And and if anybody if if I if you get the link and you don't want to look at it, don't look at it. But I think it's helpful uh to have this information help us think about that because the same metric conversation that came the same evaluation conversation the ca the same we're all kind of saying the same thing but using different language subjective data is subjective data points and having that gives us some good information about where we're headed uh as a organization for our board as well as the superintendent you know. So, um, and and the last thing I'll say is that when I'm making when I'm making suggestions here, it's not adversarial. This is not personal. This is a $300 million operation. And if we're talking about how we want to do a better job of effectively supporting our executive in charge, it's entirely appropriate. And in a district that is facing statutory operating debt, the fact that we're taking the work seriously, it is not personal. It's business. I would just like to add I I hope that is the intent of all of this. I hope the goal is that you want to be supportive because in the process for the last two years of my goals, my evaluations, um quite frankly, it hasn't felt supportive. So, I hope that's the goal and and I'm happy to change whatever you want to change and we can have a couple metrics and I won't spend the time on a 46-page document. Happy to do that, too. So, I hope the goal is that you want to support me to be wildly successful so that this school district can be. And at the point that that isn't the goal, let me know, please. But happy to take into consideration. I think what I've heard from uh the board, I think I can make some adjustments. So, thank you. >> Thank you, Sen. >> Okay. I had I have turned off. I just want to say I know I know >> what >> I just want to say that these three goals are spot on in the terms of the goals for things our superintendent is hoping to accomplish and what we discussed at our previous meeting. These are the three things the three outstanding goals that we want accomplished in our district this year. And so, uh, focusing on the goals is like they it hit all tick tick tick all the boxes. It it hit exactly what we need for goals for our superintendent for this year. People may quibble about metrics and qualitative, quantitative, whatever. But these goals are exactly what I am hoping our superintendent will be working on for this year. Director WHO, you had your hand up. Yeah, I I think you took the word out of my mouth, but I was going to say that, you know, it's it's amazing that at this point in the game, the board cannot agree on goal setting for a superintendent. It is sad that we we are spending so much time discussing what should be in a goal for the one employee. And this is the second year at least for me that I've been on this board. None of these discussions are new. The last go round I believe we even asked board members specifically to email what exactly are we looking for. We can call it smart goals all we want. Give us some specifics so that she can go that direction. That didn't happen last year. This year we are back doing the same thing over and over and over. There's major things ahead of us to do m big decisions and if we can't agree on goal setting for the one employee we have that is disheartening with that said board but chair I want to suggest that we may be seized discussion and have board members that may have teams or different goals email to you and the superintendent. Okay, >> I can be CCed on it if possible and we can get that back to the board before the next board meeting so we are not spending the rest of our evening talking about what should be in the goals. I think we all agree that the teams that are in the goals are what we discuss maybe not the specifics of the wedding that are in there and if somebody looks at it differently please send it over so we can adjust so we can move on. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Okay, that rounds out our discussion on goals. It's time for us to move on, but do if you have specific wording or specific anything, send it to vice chair, me and the superintendent for consideration. And we will be voting on these goals next meeting. All right, new business. Uh, we have a resolution accepting donations to approve. >> Move approval. >> Moved by Director Bowman. >> A second. >> Seconded by Director Henbrand. Will wave the reading. And it is uh $161462 that we will be accepting. So, thank you everyone for those donations. And it is a roll call vote. >> Great. Thank you. [snorts] >> Director Wu. >> Yes. >> Director Long, >> yes. Director Hillenbrand, >> yes. >> Chair Evans Becker, >> yes. >> Director Brennesen, >> yes. >> Director Bowman marks herself as yes. And Director Basset, >> yes. >> Motion carries. >> Motion carries. Thank you everyone for those donations. Policy, there is no report for this evening. Administrative report, superintendent, >> no reports this evening. Thank you. Okay. Board reports. Uh we did have listening time tonight and there were five speakers and um speaker one talked about trust and transparency and then we had uh two speakers talking about um listening sessions and um live possible live streaming them. We had a speaker talking about timing of the moves for Sonnis and Neil and Noble and Lake View. Um and then then the last speaker talked about the uh lake view grounds and retaining wall and um there was one thing I'll come back to myself. [laughter] >> Let's start with um board reports. Does anybody want to start? >> Director Long, >> I don't know where to start. >> Nope. Okay. Director Basset. >> Well, I have one. I just want to apologize to board members that I was not I wanted to be here. I wanted to be even on the virtual last time, but I have learned that Arizona has three time zones. I was so annoyed. Mountain time and then Pacific time and then the other time and I was all, you know, so I I really there was an important vote. I would like to have been here. I just wanted to actually acknowledge that publicly. Uh and so I did a few things, but I'm not going to dwell on them. uh in the interest of time and um that's it. >> Okay, I remembered my thing so I'll go back to me. I am talking with our auditor on Wednesday and so if anybody has any questions they would like me to ask the auditor, please email them to me tonight or tomorrow so that I have them for first thing in the morning on Wednesday. Okay, >> this this is one of those requirements that the auditors do. They need to talk to the board chair. But if anybody has questions, I would be happy to answer ask them for you. Okay. Uh Director W. >> Uh nothing to report. >> Pass. >> Got nothing. >> Okay. Well, there are seven candidates running for school board and the election is November 3rd. >> Great. >> I know. Actually, I was going to report that I filed, but I thought that would be tacky since Dr. W did not report that he filed, too. So >> technically I believe all four of our current directors have filed. >> Yeah. Or incumbents. >> Incumbents. Yes. >> Our current right. Thank you. Our incumbents have filed. All right. >> Thank you. >> Oh, sadly it's time. >> Oh, yes. >> Director Director Bridgetes. >> I don't know if he does. >> I do not have a report tonight. >> Well, thanks for joining us, though. All right. It is time for a move to adjourn the adjourn the meeting. >> I second. moved and seconded to adjourn the meeting and it is a roll call vote. >> Oh my goodness. Excuse me. I was not prepared for that. >> Now I am. >> Okay. [laughter] >> Okay. Director Basset, >> yes. >> Director Bowman votes yes. Director Brentesen, >> yes. >> Chair Evans Becker, >> yes. >> Director Hillbrand, >> yes. >> Director Long is not here. Uh, Director W. >> Uh, no. [laughter] >> Sorry. Motion carries. We're >> believe in you. We're going to be gone. >> Motion still prevails. >> Motion carries. We're journ. >> Thank you everyone. Did you have >> Thank you. She was asking me anyway. I got to go.