all righty I'll go ahead and call to order uh the city council meeting start with a roll call mcke here lanterman here Bama Baron Camp here Nichols here perfect you like to stand and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance Al of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all um agenda approval do we have let's see it looks like there's maybe a couple minor revisions from staff any additions or subtractions from St uh the only revisions mayor are item 6C uh which items have been added and item 8D uh has been updated other than that no other changes anything from Council going once going twice sold option to approve second all righty and with the two minor Visions clarify we have Motion in a second all those in favor say I perfect presentations we do have one important one um for Ken Gunner you hesitate to just give him one title because there many many titles but yes uh mayor today we are honored to uh say thank you to someone who's been influencing the community for the last 30 years and uh as you move forward I will read the resolution that you're presenting to him Ken if you can pleas and meet the mayor of FR you wanted behind the scenes or what you know this is kind of was kind of strange because it used to so this is a resolution honoring right away this is a resolution honoring outgoing Elm Creek Watershed commissioner Ken Gunther whereas Ken Gunther was appointed to the Elm Creek watershed management commission beginning on November 8th 2018 and whereas Ken Gunther was elected Treasurer during his sopore year on the Elm Creek Watershed on March 11th 2020 and whereas Ken Gunther implemented Financial policy changes related to project escrow management that greatly improved the commission's operating budget and whereas Ken Gunther advocated for the establishment of a reserve fund policy for the Elm Creek Watershed commission whereas Ken Gunther advocated for the uh obtained grant funding for the South Fork Rush Creek subwatershed assessment project which was completed in 2024 that will have long-lasting benefits to water quality and natural resources here in corkran and whereas kangun to Champion and strengthen the city of corran's relationship as a member of the Elm Creek watershed management commission and whereas commissioner Gunther was chosen to end his time as commissioner with a term that expired on September 11th 2024 and whereas the city of corkin recognizes is time energy dedication and Leadership which he's provided to the Elm Creek Watership management commission now therefore be it resolved by the city of corkrin that the city council hereby honors Ken guther for for his distinguished service to the city of corkran as our Elm Creek Watershed commissioner thank you Mr Mayor yes may I may I add do please um Ken is leaving cor that's why he's not going to be on the commission anymore and um I was the Watershed commissioner that got the study for the north uh Fork of The Rush Creek and he got the one for the South Creek South Fork of The Rush Creek so I think you and I together did good work um but like nine years ago Ken called me and he said hey um I'd like to have coffee with you at carabou and uh and it was and I'm like oh okay he's the mayor of course I'll have coffee with him so we had coffee and Ken said um I really think he ought to run for city council and I'm like well I'm I'm uh kind of a mck raker and I've never run for anything and he said perfect and so I did um and it's good call yeah well who knows if you if you don't like me talk to Ken you like me talk to me um so uh you know he was mayor for a long time here beond Beyond uh a lot of what we did before and this is this isn't about the Watershed anymore because he's moving away um he made our community be sort of like thrown together and uh uh in a halfhazard fashion and put um you were implementing the the plan for the first time and like took and put structure around our town so it could grow in a sort of reasonable way and uh there's a lot that went on that we owe to Ken that nobody really knows about because it was all done behind the scenes and I know you're you know in front of the scenes too being the mayor but you did a ton of stuff for our town I moved into our town after you started being mayor but I owe a dad of gratitude to you a ton of people do um and I know you didn't do it for that so that's extra meaningful so um yeah I appreciate all that you've done for me personally and all that you've done for our town ending as the El Creek Watershed which you have poured your heart and soul into and if you don't know what Ken did for Coran's relationship for the Watershed we're not going to spend a whole ton of time on it but it was awesome and um all these good things about you your wife is actually a better person than you Soh behind a good man is a good woman and in your case it's absolutely 100% true so thank you for all you've done um I really appreciate it thank you thank thank you thank you both how's the new new place you moved in yet um moving in starting November 11 okay good luck hopefully it goes smoothly yeah well come back and visit us will good good good thank you guys thank you thank you okay and with that we will move on to item five open Forum if we have any cards uh Mr Mayor we do not have any cards uh to come and speak on something not on the agenda uh we did receive a card uh to speak on item 6C on the consent agenda uh traditionally we do not uh comment on things on the consent agenda uh like that but I will leave that to your discussion and discretion I would think that would be I guess uh open to Council on that if if um there was a need to pull it or not from that I we probably should have done that agenda approval if there was interest but I would think um I would think that our normal procedure would not not to have comment on that very well are we defer to process any other opinions or we already we already we already the and approve the agenda true okay so that if there's nothing else for open Forum I will move on to consent agenda which consists of items 6 a through 6 K does anyone want to pull anything motion to approve consent okay second uh motion to approve consent items a through K motion and second all those in favor say I I I okay on to unfinished business we don't have any today so we'll move on to new business which we have four or five items here public sa start with Public Safety budget presentation I'm assuming that will be given yes thank you mayor council to get the slides up J ran um so again this is this is very high level um you you guys have the more detailed items uh in the packet but wanted to kind of talk about I guess tonight about what are the drivers in some of the upcoming budget changes and again it relates back to as it's not surprised that people are the most uh obviously always the most expensive part of business uh in our line of work um I did uh enclose the what you had previously seen as our or chart in ending in 2024 and um with the proposals ending in 2025 that Jay had previously presented and then following that I did a breakout just trying to expand a little bit more on that to show a little bit more clearly where the uh where the change would lie in um Public Safety it looks like the conversion to PDF maybe changed some of the lines possibly a little bit we'll see how they turned out does anyone have a page number on the agenda for this 155 or thank you thank you um so again the big the reason we're talking about the or chart is that's where some of the largest cost drivers are and trying to give you a visual of how they fit in the uh you know into the scheme of what our existing structures so the blue ones are the existing staff the gold ones are the proposed Staffing changes so you see the part-time administrative assistant on the upper gut uh that's what we originally was a police technician position um used to be called police technician because they had some CSO duties with it um as we've added our CSO program and that's taken off they're really serving in a more of administrative function so that would be um the part-time Administrative Assistant trying to bring back that part-time help that we had for uh projects and some of the evening coverage that we we try and do in in the police department the other part-time position that you'll see bottom center Community Service Officer so as you know we've um transitioned to a full-time Community Service Officer this year and really trying to get that the goal of that full-time one is to get a little bit longer term with more of a career person that knows the ins and outs of what we need done um and then trying this goal would be to bring back the part-time Community Service Officer which we often use we successfully use as a feeder program for people who are interested in law enforcement get them exposure to our community get them some um some time in the profession um so some of our last hires uh Danny you remember Jacob they both came through our part-time CSO program so really trying to get our part-time CSO program back on track um to really do two things get some more evening and weekend coverage with our csos they can alleviate some of the the work that right now we're otherwise having pulling our police off ERS to do they can kind of take on some of that civilian work like fingerprinting um you know lockouts some of the more the public assist type stuff if our officers are tied up with other things so bring that service back and then also trying to help have a little bit more of a feeder program for our our police officers um the other the next position um bottom right is the SIU detective um and actually you can see if you take note now before we change where the SIU detective fits and then the in the upper right the uh deputy director of fire and there's a little you know think it'd be good to go on to the next slide and talk a little bit about those since those are full-time positions what does that mean and why does it what are the core functions or what if we elected do not move forward with them what would we be missing out on um the goal of the SIU was that we would be looking at a jpa type position um either with a neighboring special investigations unit or drug task force trying to um really look on at pattern crimes warrant arrest narcotics more of the proactive investigative things that um the day that our day-to-day detective is more responsive so our day for instance our day-to-day detective does Child Protection adult protection responding to death scenes um you know the longer term criminal investigations where an SIU would be more of the proactive stuff but it would also be a jpa position where we would join a group of other investigators and what that would allow us to do is when we have those active type investigations necessary we would have a team of investigative folks that are doing the proactive stuff in our community what that would also mean is that person would be working outside of our communities at times as well as and in support of that team so Matt is there another Community actually approached us or conversations with who that would be yes we've had conversations about um as far as SIU um I've had conversations with cl PD we don't have agreements in place that's why it's not structured as a it would have to be this we're looking at Community impact if you'll recall when we did the um the council initiative of addressing specific crime and drug related issues to retain a safe atmosphere uh Council go back in think that was 2018 um the the low-level drug crimes some of the quality of life things were were a significant concern then they remain that now um but they fall somewhat below the scope of what what a traditional just drug test Force person would do the hope with an SIU approach would be to do a hybrid where they can still do the community Impact Drug crimes uh but also have a little bit broader uh scope of what they'll be looking at Mr Mayor yeah can I can I ask a question yeah just a a general just a general uh question um today we are not actually approving budgets for the right the park or the public safety or the I'm sorry the administration and the I think Park head they have a different day um so are we to listen and react or are we to um St you know what what is our role in hearing this conversation I think yeah if I could uh clarify councilman BR um staff really needs to hear from you uh we understood that uh when we pass the not to exceed Levy uh before the end of September uh we still have some cuts that have be made and so if you have recommendations that uh of particular things that you want to see as Bill payers in order to get the budget where you want it to be this is the time when we really need that feedback uh it's not a vote at this point uh then we take that feedback and incorporate it into the modified budget which we'll bring back to you but we really need the feedback on uh what sort and types of things are don't touch those or these are things that we we would be willing to let go of or we want to cut these things from the budget that kind of feedback just to be clear are these so um if we were doing an NCAA tournament bracket are these like bubble things we're talking about then with respect to these positions um I assume we're not cutting officers these are like we're thinking about this get we need some feedback just to for the public we have a big crowd here but um also for us um like we're we're talking about two positions but we're also not talking about like most of the force that we have today so the the core services that uh we have grown accustomed to at this point aren't the things that we're seeking guidance on we've understood your guidance that uh we're going to protect core services and it's any time that we're either increasing Service delivery or modifying Service delivery that we need some guidance so is the feedback for Matt or for you both both okay and I really my approach to it was what are the drivers for the increase that are um you know that are the biggest changes so if you were going to not not have these changes occur and want to to have the greatest impact on the reduction these are what the biggest changes are outside of the the cost of living adjustment for existing staff so so when do when do we approve it uh December December 12 so that means for people at home watching and for people here they can weigh into some of these comp truth and Taxation meeting is on December 12th really important every every resident should have received that notification in the quarterly newsletter could you add some color Matt around the level of each of the crime categories that are listed under the SIU are how prevalent are these are we talking a handful dozens scores so they they they all come and go a lot I mean so they're all very situational that you know for instance I'm sure you've saw in the news that there was a rash of organized commercial B I'm sorry residential burglaries to the south of us um the these would be the types of things that this group would Target and be proactively you know looking at doing data analysis doing kind of the stakeouts doing you know the targets and actually doing targeted proactive policing at an investigative level as opposed to a patrol officer so they're very situational and then you know for instance you know when there's the the reports of the low-level narcotic sales or some of those things a lot of times in the around the holidays they'll focus on um more so in other our neighboring cities retail crimes and it's so it it really is a flex type position to here's what we're facing today that our Patrol cops can't do in their day-to-day function um one concern that I have maybe you can speak to this too is if we're partnering with larger cities to share resource and be able to deploy people where needed do you feel like we would get at least one full-time person equivalent over the course of that year or are we likely to have them pulled into bigger cities for most of their time so I think we would um because when they when they would be coming here keep in mind they'd be bringing their team of six or eight people here so even if they're targeting work for two weeks they're having the equivalent of six or eight people that are working here full week full-time so would their majority of their calendar year be spent here that'll be remain that'll remain to be seen and how we of a team is needed for each type of investigation that they're doing whether they're peeling off three people from the group or six people from that group that they're working jointly with um but I think there's definite value in the function that they provide and it gives a lot of depth without having to pay for six or eight people when we need it um it gives us that maybe more of an entitlement to those proactive services if I could add to uh to further flush out council member bot's question in subsequent slides uh gave each of the department heads a materiality of $20,000 so if there's a subsequent change in any line item of $20,000 or more we're bringing that to your attention because that's the threshold that Council has to approve any changes in our budget more than $20,000 and so that's why this brief each of the department heads are looking at any changes in any budget line item that's more than 20 ,000 and then giving you an opportunity to ask questions to understand it and then starting with our staffing uh because those are our largest costs and and our biggest we can't do our services without staff and these are these are large line names that will get into the percentages and their actual these items will get into their dollar impact in a in a slide or two so um do you have any other questions on the form and function of the SIU investigative position then before I explain the or talk about the deputy director Mr Mayor if I me yeah Matt on the SIU how many other communities have people already so and how big is that team so most of our neighboring agencies do um and it varies from agency to agency but you know for instance like a Plymouth does Maple Grove does um other small other smaller communities to the north and south of us for instance Rogers Madina West henpen they have they contribute instead of an SIU they've uh contributed to drug task force positions so as it relates to uh a specialty investigative person in addition to the detective all of our neighboring cities have that um some of them um it's drug task force some of them are SIU the smaller agencies North and South have signed drug task force agents uh Maple Grove and Plymouth have drug task force and they also have SIU division but currently right now though if we have an issue we call on that group and they come here even though we don't have an SIU person um no we generally figure it out I mean if we if we call and saids we own it yeah if we called them and said we need twoof to do this tomorrow they would get us twoof to do that tomorrow but they would not be doing case management case investigation that's all our detective we have one what is that cost of that one position so the SIU detective I believe I think I got I know the number but yeah so the the wages are going to come in in you know and it depends on who ends up getting assigned to that we had for for wages I think we had it's budgeted at the same pay rate as a police detective which is base wage plus 6% if I recall correctly I think it was in that speak I think it was in that 120,000 approximately for wages but there's also Insurance yeah no I I get all of that I understand that sorry it would be it would be just over 100 I think it's two to 104,000 for base wage okay and then as far as a deputy director of fire we've been having that conversation since before I came on the council and stuff a few years ago we currently have Hanover do respond Rogers respond Hamill respond and West Suburban West Suburban I stated that wrong in the past I didn't want to do it tonight yeah that one person would be that contact for all of those people or all of those different communities but yet we don't have much of a plan going forward as far as what we're going to do in our city for something here yet okay right and and to get a little bit more explaining what it is um our fire service work plan um which we created with the a following the subcommittee talks about um beginning to implement starting to do fire inspections which actually begins with Community Education um so three to four years ago we looked about how do we start delivering on the fire service work plan so I'm obviously the conduit with our three fire departments love doing it love our partners want to continue with our partners um but as we got to the Tactical element saying okay let's organize what fire education and inspection looks like in corkran when I approached Handover fire department they said yep happy we'll go out to a couple businesses we can hit one or two a month and we'll try and do um you know but we're going to do this format which is different and we can be a little bit more specific when we went to West Suburban they said yep it's going to be a few thousand dollars a month or a year um we can do more but it's going to look like this it's going to be a different form factor we talked to um Rogers Fire Department they said we're at capacity we we if you want to do that you have to pay for one FTE for Rogers Fire Department to do it so we we got three different answers and three different ways of doing it so as as we don't have anybody in a tactical role to say here's what our standard is here's how we'll do it may or may not be the right person to be doing that work but can actually deliver um and align what our services can be that's one of our greatest challenges is getting the same service for all of our uh residents that are living in different service areas we have three fantastic Partners they all do business a little bit differently um so it's managing and exploring options but also as our city is growing what mitigation strategies are there whether that's looking at District Lines whether that's looking at assuming some Medical Services if we are how does that impact formula so as we're looking at our fire service formula if we were to be able to take some of that burden off the our partners before their so that their model can support it um they can start doing analysis on that and what does that mean or what does that look like so um a lot of that as we begin to plan for the future of buyer service this is not not a this isn't somebody who's going to tell the fire chief how to fight the fire when they're on scene where we have our partners we need those Partners this is if we have a where do our facilities need to go what does that facility need to contain and how do we staff that with our partners or otherwise and how do we most efficiently work with them to get the best value so as we're seeing our contract costs go up and we'll continue because of our population growth this is meant to be one of the mitigation and Service delivery um I guess throttles on how do we find the best value for our residents in do and then last question how much is that position roughly so this is ends up being the first delve into personnel as a separate Department with fire so the costs are a little bit higher as it relates to you know we need radios we need other supporting stuff so the wages end up falling similar to in the low 100,000s similar to a deputy director position but because of Personnel cost as it relates to Insurance um and then training uh some of those overhead things getting it started with is looking at about just over 170,000 a year gez thanks can I ask a question about the I'm gonna I'm gonna ask a million questions before we even get to talk that's okay I'm used to it does henan County so pattern residential burglaries warrant arrest narcotic sales construction site the thefts catalytic converter thefts do they even prosecute it is it worth even trying to bring people forward and who have committed these crimes I would say that we are committed to making sure that we're delivering every criminal to the doorstep of our butol people can do you're saying sounds like he's on the fense John yeah yes or no so like not no fault serious question there there's only certain things that we can control and we want our officers doing everything they can to make sure our community safe what happens after they get out of the community don't I think it's a fair point to bring up I think maybe the hope is that I agree that that is a concern right now hopefully that won't continue to be in in the long term but yeah I'd rather H hire a prosecutor for our city and then hire actual people who will find people it's not that hard to look who are committing crimes because our crime I've said it for eight years our crimes are not being prosecuted so what's the point is that a serious thing we can do can we have a prosecut yes we can have our own prosecutor for our town it is we can't for felonies though County attorney has so has jurisdiction over burglaries warrants narcotic sales construction site that a lot would depend on specifics they most of them would so a b residential burglar would be a felony warrant is going to depend on the level of crime that the warrant is for um the narcotics that we're we're speaking of yeah there would be felonies because um only Petty misdemeanor drug possession was marijuana which has been legalized um the construction site thefts usually exceed the dollar value I mean to to fall into the felony category as to most the value of the catalytic converters so they do fall into that felony category but I would go as far as saying if it's against the law we're going to arrest you for it as long as we can um and we're going to do everything we can to make sure that we can get Justice for our victims because every one of those we we're talking about the crime there yeah as we show up every one of them has a person behind it so we show up a catalytic converter theft it doesn't make the our our resident feel any better that we say we're going to do our best but when they're without a catalytic converter and can't get to work that's impacting their life and we drive that home with our prosecutors to the best that we can yeah hypothetically speaking say we don't join this task force and we say we're not joining the task force those people are super expensive we're going to hire three csos who are going to drive around and look for people uh stealing catalytic inverters I think the outcome is the same because our stuff is not prosecuted period they like you could make an argument we want more officers forget all this we don't need detectives because none of our stuff is prosecuted we actually don't need a canine because none of our stuff is prosecuted ever so you just need people that I'm I'm just making the argument it's frustrating I would say I cannot put a civilian in the midst of a crime in progress and won't it's not they don't have the training to do it I'm just being factious right it's sort of like what's the point of have of having all that if at the end that it doesn't it doesn't do a damn thing brought forward but I think it raises a valid strategic question is there more value in deterrence versus capture and what's where do we get the best value for the dollar this this a rabid will have drug us done you've done a good job or does this issue highlight that maybe it's just not the right time to do that and if we're in a scenario that um it's different at the county level in terms of prosecution that maybe it is the right time could we hire a lobbyist to hang around County attorney V right I'm sure voted to leave hen County so I would say as far as these priorities um earlier this year we I said I would handle like I'm going to do a fire study I'm G to figure all this stuff out and I have experience in that field I was just I spent 12 hours at um Rogers Fire because I'm with North ambulance on Saturday and uh was yesterday um and I it's so overwhelming I could do it I wanted to do it so bad but I couldn't do it and I almost think that the priority um should be some sort of leaan that isn't doesn't get paid man it doesn't get paid 150 Grand like I I swear like a some person that could just communicate could do the job we're ask fire one yeah because we're not yeah we mind anyways say that again Dean we aren't that big yet all right I'm done no we don't have a clear outline for what the deputy director of fire should do I think it'd be silly to hire that without Council spending enough time to say here's what the position is here's what they're going to do very specifically so the job description stuff would come at when seeking authorization to hire you know as a matter of how much do we put into the budget part of it I think we do have a clear outline I think as you look at the knowled as you as you talked about the complexity of it you have to have a subject matter expert to do it you you can't do it without a subject matter expert and you're not going to get somebody at the policy level subject matter expert at a liaison pay grate they're just not going to do that job and that's that's the reality that we're left with um as we are looking forward it really is a planning heavy function that we need there there's another fire after year after they planned it all up I wouldn't lead with that might be hard to fill the spot we had a meeting we had a meeting today that I think is atoned this uh we we the timing may not be now but there are some things on the horizon that are going to continue to impact not only our growing Community but the changing landscape of how fire service is delivered and what's expected in that Arena uh and if we don't have an expert Matt's doing a great job of being in those meetings and advocating for us uh but we need somebody that's meeting with those folks every single day uh and planning our long range service when the timing of that is that's that's for you to decide but the reality is the OSHA things that I learned about today those expensive these unfunded mandates coming from the federal government related to fire service and all of the things that are going to happen are going to be a huge build uh on the horizon and so we need to make sure that we're postured in a way to be able to navigate that we we've WR up on it instead of caught on our heels we need to be proactive when's the timing to be proactive on that that's for you to decide but it's coming I won't talk anymore until the next so like I said I'll get into some the impacts in a slide or two anything any other questions on for and function of those two largest cost drivers I think what I would want to see on the fire one I would like to see an outcome of that position existing being the ability to bend down the cost curve that we see especially I think from Rogers and and their particular model of pricing our service whether that means we're allocating additional parts of the city to other departments and how do we do that without compromising service um we're spending what6 $700,000 on fire service next year so and that goes up I've seen it go up 10% 20% a year um I would like to see us have a mechanism to keep that as controlled as we can and if it takes having a person for a period of time maybe we get to a point where we don't need somebody at that level we can evaluate that later um but I think we need to improve our understanding of the system and how to adjust our contracts and that was I met what I intended by bullet point number one with the manage and explore options it really is we need that mitigation and what would it look like if we redrew boundaries what would it look like if we absorbed or removed call load by handling it in a different way doing that analysis is is fairly complex and making sure that it doesn't negatively impact service or relationships we we are not you know with our three fire Partners we we need them we're going to have them and we also don't want to break them by having as we as our community grows expanding beyond what they can what they can fulfill with either their volunteers or their their Staffing structures Chief if I could as a former SIU investigator and Task Force member I know firsthand that there is a tendency for larger agencies to monopolize the resources of these groups I'm wondering if you put any any thought into how um how or what type of oversight will be necessary to make make sure that other agencies are are are getting more of this than than we are and and how do we maintain proportionality you know the the cities buying for this versus you know the other cities yeah I've had those exact conversations um we left that's why I also left a little bit of flexibility in how we talk about it um in in the partners that I've talked to they were absolutely understanding of that concern um and I think we would write the jpa with those taking in mind those reservations that the umbrella that governed how we work together either leaving short short outs that we could seek a better partner or if we can't come to an agreement on the front end of what that management looks like um you know certainly that drug task force is another option that gets us that that team of people that can sometimes expand their scope to violent crime type scenario and they have they have established governing boards which includes the the agency by agency representation so I think we have some options if we can't find the structure that we want or can't get the terms that we would want in a jpa or governance document thank you with the jpa is there a minimum number of years that we're signing up for or is this uh like a like an at will relationship that you can terminate if if you decide that's the right thing for I think we want I think we'd want options and I think for our community we'd want to know what this looks like and how it works for us I think starting out if another agency is going to be upsetting their apple cart they'd want to know that we're going to you know do this for know you know two or three years and then maybe it's an annual renewal after or um if it's terms different than that then how is there another benefit that we can get out of it but I think we could those those terms would certainly be a point of consideration if we went down that building thank you de one more question and again we are going to come up with a recommendation and stuff on the fire side and such and I hate saying the word but I'll say it we've had some luck with consultants and such related to some of our other positions here and saving money for that I have no idea but is there a resource like that amongst the fire safety and stuff of somebody I I find it hard that we're going to need a person five days a week so we actually so we did a what's called a fire service planning Grant they still have the fire service planning grants when we did the first one um the feedback they said was let's start working on what our benchmarks are for response there's more information you need more structure behind it was the was the feedback that we got from when we did our last study when was that um that would have been believe 2019 I could put together a summary for the Council of the previous staff reports and the the working documents that would include the study the subcommittee the work plan um as we began executing on the work plan as we got to delivering on that structure and some of the deliverables as far as how we do education inspection as we got to those parts is where we've hit the road blocking that we don't have the Tactical manager here to get to the structure point for the next so we've got a we've got a plan but what I was looking at is there a person that does part-time for another local community of inspections and all of these things and coordination and stuff is there somebody for that role not a consultant telling us what we're lacking I'm saying so they're so for instance as I talked about West Suburban bringing on inspections they're going through the process of getting educated um they're going up working with neighboring cities for how they do inspections how they manage it now that's one of the elements that we're trying to do but they also don't have jurisdiction in the Rogers Fire Department because they work West Suburban they don't have jurisdiction in the Handover fire department because they don't work for Handover so as we look at scope of authority a city employee would have scope over it or a city if you're talking about a contracted employee um sure we we could probably find one person that would get the expertise to set up our um our uh inspections but they wouldn't do service model forecasting or they wouldn't do some of the other longrange PL there's there's a lot of compartments that we're trying to meet but I think that's you know from a consultant stand Point um I'm continuing to look at what those options are the State Fire Marshals office is very helpful in coming out to communities but they do it on a on a perase basis they'll say hey we'll come help you either get this project started okay but they want a clear but you can't you can't do something with the three different fire departments that we have and say we'd really like get to follow one inspection process we'd really like it to be one and then you can't do that you need somebody knowing that to put it together and then say here's what here's what we here's what we need you to do for inspection and we're going to maintain the record so that we have it to deliver that kind of you know deliver what those service expectations are and it should be somebody with that's that's an expert now that's still not going to alleviate you know for instance Roger saying we don't have the bandwidth or this will have contractual obligations but we can start weighing and mitigating what those impacts are in our approach and figure out how do we get there but if we do it ourselves then we do the Rogers Regional support we do the Handover we do the West Suburban we do those things and they don't have a say on our inspection process is that what you're saying so so that what that person would do is examine the option so what they might say is I'm going to oversee maybe it's um West Metro doing inspections but I know what our standard is going to be or maybe they'll say we're going to do it with yes so they would they administer it they might not be the inspector depending on who the person is or they might be the inspector depending on what the person is they're going to develop what the best cost benefit and service level model is for the community could that be a quick win to reduce existing charges from our providers I think that that would be the first coming in the door would be get a get a get a handle on our situation of where we're at with contracts and cost drivers as it relates to calls for service versus market value versus where districts go and capacity and service from our from our partners that is there a more effective model using our existing partners that can that can look at those cost drivers I do want to point out what I said earlier that there is a wave of expenses coming in the fire service so just don't want to set an expectation that by doing the bringing in a position like this that we're going to be able to mitigate and lower our costs the the costs are going to be higher by being proactive and getting someone in here that can manage these conversations and come up with these necessary strategies that allows us to proactively respond to the changing landscape rather than reactively respond and so we're able to do some analysis put a plan in place we we don't have that capacity right now to do that so so we are doing a good job of because we have good partners uh taking care of the safety of the community but the things that are going to happen as the city continues to grow and as the expectations OSHA in particular change um the costs are going to go up I I just wanted to talk about that even getting someone like this it's not going to reduce the cost it might reduce from the cost from as bad as it was going to be yeah but but it's not going to make it lower next could mitigate the increase yeah it could M mitigate the the dec I think the hope is mitigating increase year over year by being tactical with our investments and also helping our partners so that we're not over taxing their capacities and and where our demand Falls I think can help can help both of us hopefully so um getting on to revenues um not not a lot that we can talk about here so our police state aid went up which is good approximately $40,000 that's formulaic based on officers in seat during the time throughout the year um another one that will be changing but we're not we're we're being conservative on the forecasting our police state aid training did go up this year we're hopeful that that'll go up next year but I think out of being conservative we're not projecting a large increase on that one just because we want to make sure that um we can meet our our Revenue expectations our agency is the grant administrator for the tzd which is towards zero deaths Grant this is passed through money so you see the a net gain in revenue of 169,000 we'll see an expenditure of that amount uh later in there those are the biggest the biggest changes in the revenue end of things um on our as we look at the individual business units this is um police what are the big cost drivers in police Personnel costs um that's so the the police business unit has a 22.1% increase as per in the proposed budget 18% of that is Personnel costs what are what makes up that 18% we have a a contractual 4% cost of living adjustment um benefits increased this includes that SIU position that we had talked about so as we talk about wages and benefits that could that will be roughly a quarter of those expenses would be a quarter or more of those expenses would be related to that SIU position um and then as you'll recall we added the the other police officer position this last year but it started halfway through the year we have the other in the budget the other half a year funding required to to just continue paying for their existing staff um this also has the proposed part-time community service officer position in there um next one is we did begin funding the health insurance Severance payment fund that was part of the Recruitment and Retention stuff on trying to um keep our officers until retirement that's a proactive funding that funding source is overfunded today but we want to make sure that we as we set that line item in the budget that it is continued to fund in the in the future and we don't need to make those adjustments later down the road um the that kicks in eligibility for that kicks in in 2025 so next year would be the first year that eligible officers who are eligible to retire could be eligible for that benefit we did a three-year phase roll out of those items our work comp insurance went down um looking in the notes we do need to bring that back up a little bit um increasing it back to 135,000 there was a miscalculation as we were doing this and looking at if we had made our our quarterly I think I can't remember it's quarterly payments um we thought we had one entered but hadn't so that will have to go back up but we are projecting reduction um that's based on um there were larger payouts a number of years ago with um separated officers and I think we're our our experience rating and stuff is recovering from that so we're hoping for a a slight reduction in the work comp costs and then the grant dispersement that's that tzd money that we saw in the earlier Slide the offsetting revenue if you look for that in the budget You' see that the tzd grant is actually 181,000 but we usually budget about $112,000 of that Grant expenditure within our department so we increase the income by 169 and then increase the output by 169 kept our tcv expenditure roughly at 12,000 but any of that uh Grant dispersement or um usage on our end is going to be dependent on use what is that used to provide so towards zero death is what used to be called safe and sober so they have different waves where officers this is State funding can either look for impaired driving they've done stuff on distracted driving ver for instance cell phone enforcement they will do waves for seat Bel enforcement or targeted enforcement to reduce deaths on Minnesota roadways it's the overall um tzv so the toward zero death motto it's like special shifts focused on y special shifts that are paid for with grant funding from the state okay thank you in the police administration business unit um again the biggest cost driver 26% change in that line item again that's projects a 4% cost living adjustment the benefits increase as we look at health insurance and other benefits and then this includes the proposed part-time administrative assistance which was formally the police technician position that we talked about and then the in the fire um again we talk about the Personnel costs this would be the first Personnel so there's a lot of things on top of just a wage and salary and benefits it goes to training cell phone reimbursement um you know there's the the cost of just employee Administration in general is what you're seeing the additional overhead on this position for um and then you see our service contract costs went up by about 10.9% going into 2025 so as we look at the public safety totals I did gray out the in public safety building inspection and code enforcement are technically in the public safety budget those are um supervised by our community development director so I believe that she'll be touching on those in her budget um in in the coming weeks but to look at the percentage change where it you know where it falls in the public safety budget those are the biggest cost drivers and if you're looking to drive those down or mitigate those changes your best value is going to be in those new changes that we had talked about take any other questions that you have thank you Matt any other questions any thoughts do we want to give our rec commendations now sure sure I I I all it would be nice to have I think that the investigator would be premature I'll say it like that um as far as the fire I'd like to see more meat and potatoes on what that's going to give us it's some Bag information right now um and again the cost of what's happening with with with the changes in the fire support system and OSHA and everything that happened that is huge cost to all three of our fires fire departments that service us so do we have a number on what that could be it is a big guess it's a huge guess hasn't finalized what the requirements will be yet it's still working but it will be substantially similar to what's been promoted proposed and there's speculation that fire departments could at at minimum need a remodel in order to to incorporate more and to be clear I'm not opposed to it a lot of those are for firefighter and those folks's safety and wellbeing and health and stuff like that it's just going to be in theory I'm I'm there's questions but again uh pass spouse of a firefighter my wife was a firefighter Maple Gro for four and a half years John doing what you do anybody else do that in here thank you very much but it might be an overshoot from OSHA but in my mind I'd rather have them be more safe than sorry but uh i' just like to see a little bit more numbers there if I were to say yes to that um but I think the investigative side I I don't want to get somebody in and farm somebody out um don't know if you thought of this but I would like to see where we already have an investigator is there an option or is there something in place that we could maybe ask our current police force and stuff is anybody interested in going into that role and doing that in the future and internal development instead of bringing another body from outside in are those opportunities available for our police officers so the way I'm thinking and stuff thank you than see anyone else sure I I think i' kind of share your concerns about um I I don't dislike necessarily either of the ideas I just don't know that it's the right time um for both my concern on the fire would be that there's going to be a lot of changes with the ocean and to Jay's point maybe we could mitigate some but I have a feeling if we had someone in place better but I have a feeling a lot of those are just going to be dictated and not even to us dictated to the Departments which then are going to have to adjust our cost you know to continue doing what they do yeah um and we're not going to have much say on that and then if we're adding this position on top of that we could suddenly face a massive increase I we could already face a massive increased number but if we're adding another 200,000 plus position position on top of that it could hit us hard in in a year so maybe we're better suited waiting for the the right time maybe it's after those change we see what the scale of those changes are and where we are as a city in terms of budget and and just holding off on that a little bit but again we don't have to make that final decision tonight but I'm wondering if it's worth having a consideration for the alternate proposal looking for a consultant to do some of that initial planning work greater depth and not take on the long-term burden of a permanent employee but still recognizing the potential value of how we might restructure our current service I'm certainly open to seeing it if we think that's something we could H or find you're especially if there's a grant you're saying like what I was saying of somebody that takes it to the next level from our past consultant telling us what we're actually deficient into somebody that has more create create plans do that yep that's thank you help me get my point thank you very much any other thoughts on this one yes same thing along the same lines or make sure Matt and Jay have enough feedback y I think okay nothing else we'll move on to the next item right uh just take me a second to get our slides here joke I how about the ice arena one again every time I tell the ice all roll R get worn out on that with the number of people we have here Deb how many people we have online six six thank you all six of you and thank you guys for sitting through this appreciate it very much if you know an easier way to do this please call every one of us okay absolutely so one of the things I I do want to say is that first that's the first time we've done that uh and thank you Matt for being the first one in in the hopper uh for doing this I think it's helpful to communicate to the community how and why we're delivering the services that we're delivering and and instead of just giving a large budget item and not really understanding talking through how we deliver the services that we do and how it's changing uh and and how that's going to impact uh their taxes and also their experiences here in the community and so thank thank you for allowing us to do it this way um and it's helpful feedback for us too to better understand I mean we just got um some people might say we spent a lot more time talking about that than maybe we wanted to and in past process we've gone faster I think the feedback that we just got will be invaluable to us as we trying to make some decisions so um with with that in mind uh so I'm going to start with the admin Department nelisha uh joined us is doing a fantastic job leading that um and so you see our or chart uh we are almost full um so um I am so happy to have gotten rid of a whole bunch of those hat that I was wearing and then pass them off to Nisha since she's been here and now as she's been growing the team you're familiar uh we added an accountant uh we uh contracted for our finance uh manager uh Deb is our new city clerk Karen is our new Deputy clerk uh Erin is our new um communication specialist uh Ryan is our new HR generalist and uh we are in the process uh will be interviewing soon for our it managers so thank you for your support in making this happen for those uh in the community that aren't aware of this the restructure was an impact of a cultural assessment that we received feedback from our staff and we recognized that we really needed to provide better internal customer service uh as well as external customer service but internally some of these things how we take care of it how we handle employee benefits concerns how we take care of our people that take care of all the services in the community is really important and uh so the growth that we've made in the last six months and being able to do that uh the feedback that I've gotten is it's been very positive steps so thank you for supporting that uh and with that I'm going to jump in we have 10 business units in administration um and uh we're going to talk about some of the things uh I'm going to go into detail I'll cover five of the business units and then Nisha will cover the other business units so long and the short of it uh two up and two down or uh are areas specifically um our Personnel cost for the finance department by choosing uh the Contracting solution um this was brought up with with the idea of Outsourcing even the fire service thing uh we then forego uh some of the benefits and other supports for staff uh We've also restructured the fin department so Utility Billing has now gone uh to Public Works and so that allowed us to reduce Staffing from three people to one person so we're working a lot more efficiently we've got a great person in the job uh I I do want to be transparent we were hoping to hire a finance manager we talked a lot about that when we went out to market for the benefit of the community um what it would have cost us is about $30,000 more than our top salary for a finance manager so I went out and I met with a lot of people trying to attract them if you go on leue of Minnesota cities right now there's at least half a dozen other communities trying to hire Finance directors to include our neighbors in Madina uh we needed to provide predictable reliable accurate services and finance because everything that we do runs it requires money uh and so we're really happy with the service that we're getting got a good bench with epto they understand us uh the trigger or the Imp of that is it triggered us having to change Auditors so ABDO will no longer be our auditor because they cannot do bank reconciliations and journal entries and audit us and so that the change in their service delivery um but um that's a significant cost decrease in finance um as a result there's an increase in in our Professional Services contract and finance that stands to reason exactly why uh we have the they're all broken down there the finance contract auditing Services Remains the Same about $50,000 uh we're almost done with reconciling all of our escros I'm super excited about that uh part of the challenge with escros is we migrated to bsna about two years ago and so some of our older escros were managed in in really spreadsheets in an older system and then our new processes uh needed to be reviewed and so we're getting all of those escros into our financial management system and bsna it'll be a lot more user friendly a lot more responsive and uh and we're almost there so we should finish up the project in the in the first quarter um of of 2025 I'm really happy that our yes sir sorry while you're talking about escros um with the new system have we decided if we're going to generate any interest income from the escrow or is that a question we want to answer at some point uh I will take that down as a note uh so that that's an important question we're going to have to talk about our whole investment strategy as we go into the first quarter um as we flush that out to just better stewardship as we have increased capacity that allows us to have more in-depth conversations about some of our strategies so um so assessing Services super happy that we were able to offload $165,000 in assessing Services through a joint agreement with the county the county will now be providing those services at no cost but late yes yeah uh doing what we can yeah uh and then our Legal Services uh it's important to note that in 2025 it will be a bargaining unit negotiation year and so we're we're budgeting to ensure that we have legal services in order to do all the necessary um conversations and assessment analysis to complete 2025 a new contract as we go into 22 any questions about any of those things do we have the information from the county that we need from them as our assessor at this point not final not final and when were they supposed to have final numbers to us November 15th I think I'm not sure about I I'll get back to that question too I thought we were expecting final numbers like in the summer no I I think final preliminary numbers Ary numbers came out in uh they were laid on that and then final final by they aren't laid on the final ones not yet but they probably will be thank you any other questions on this that covers my business units and I will turn that over Mr Mayor members of the council before you you have a snapshot of the administration budget um the fulltime employees regular budget item will increase by 173,000 which is about a 60% increase this is to reflect the full salary of the new assistant City administr new assistant City administrator HR generalists and then transitioning our part-time communication specialist to a full-time position and then transition of our Administrative Assistant to deputy cler and then our part-time employees budget item will decrease by 27,000 as their communication specialist salaries moving to to the full-time budget item then with that our employer paid insurance will also increase by 45,000 which is about 98% and then for 2025 there are no elections so we will see a decrease for temporary and seasonal employees about 25,000 and then for essential Services there will be a decrease of $382,000 this is to account for the skid steer that will be covered by the G the government obligation certificates that will be um addressed under the long-term financial plan in 2025 and then lastly for information technology this budget will increase for full-time employees by 47,000 to account for the full-time it manager and then we will also see an increase of 30,000 for our annual renewals regarding hardware and software subject to your questions um that's it for administration any questions for J What's the total uh was on one of the earlier slides I believe well it's it's by business unit so it's difficult to give the whole Administration budget up up but I will yeah I will get that back to you so I have to get back you that is there a particular area you no it's just like one's down up 6 down 100 like it's I mean I could run it quickly and figured out but think I just wore them down for you guys pretty effective yours was just easy to pick on that don't don't well in In fairness we we've kind of for again if you look at the next pages in the packet 166 through 169 as the roll up for administrator and it looks like Administration overall is up to 16 okay Central Services sorry election is down 31 Central Services is down 311 it is up 85 and we've kind of digested these changes a little bit more throughout the past year eight months um with the whole restructure and everything so it's not too much or anything really brand new that we're looking at here um so any feedback to for changes that we want brought back on the next go around of this or when we're bringing it up in December I don't know that there's anything that it's massive that jumps out me at this moment taking the lack of will we have the staff to fully implement granicus and the near future so good news near future is almost here we doing I wanted to ask that when does our next training SP I think we have a training starting next week so awesome yeah we're just trying to get through the general election here and then we'll yeah which uh kind of a sidebar but we had a pretty good turnout it sounded like today they're starting to about 100 people a day coming in here awesome and we voting early so cool it's been very consistent cool cool that's great no drama too much the drama will come after all right well I think I just did rough numbers off your summary J yes sir this doesn't seem right I'll I'll follow up 85,000 are you trying map again I'm trying M hey I use my calculator on my phone for the first time thank you for your help I tried I'll take criticism so we're not hiring be for finance manager uh if there's nothing else mayor and Council good for now uh we are you're moving on to perfect to 8C and actually before that I think we made a five minute recess quickly if anyone else is that okay with everyone sure okay we'll recess for 5 minutes be back at at clock now right so 8:15 there we go safy that thing gonna fly off and kill someone somay all right we'll go into 8 C which is city park remaster and JCB is gonna start thank you mayor thank you Council uh my name is Jessica Christian I'm your Recreation supervisor know that at this point but with me here tonight is Gabrielle grindy um she's been our consultant for this project and been doing a lot of hard work with staff as well as Steve from stantech has been pretty heavily involved so we've got some good people working on a project and we want to tell you about where we're at well for her to kind of give an overview and then I'll have a slide here there and then we'd be happy to take questions good evening thank you okay so the purpose of the meeting tonight is that we're seeking approval to move forward on design of the city park improvements project so this is our design process we started last fall of winter December January we did a site analysis we looked at city park looked at what works well what are the issues and opportunities we did project programming in January and February worked with City staff on that uh we did concept planning in the spring and then this project was brought to City Council in the spring to get approval to with schematic design right now we're at the end of our schematic design process so the remaining steps are showing the design that's needed to get through the project opening which is projected to be next fall uh this is the layout right now this is the schematic layout showing uh several elements um within city park on the western side of the park that are recommended for improvement as phase one so there a Regional Trail which would be part of the Three Rivers Diamond Lake Regional Trail sh around the uh outside of the main Park area there's a large field which would be graded flat shown at number one where there are several soccer fields and a cricket pitch shown number two shows pickle ball six pickle ball courts which would be part of phase one this one the purple one doesn't work well on the TVs you might want to do this one the audience can see Jeremy took my good one so so number two shows six pickle ball courts which would be in the first phase and then the future phase which would be later in coming years not identified would be six more pickle ball courts we're showing a large parking lot which is over the existing plate of the current parking lot uh expanded to the north which would impact the Southeastern ball field which would be uh slightly reduced in size so would be more for youth Athletics baseball softball and then 10 is shown as an overfolded parking area which may be paved in the future the parking lot we're showing right now is approximately 240 spaces there is an opportunity to add more spaces I makeing point in the central row we could add potentially 30 40 more parking spots uh number nine in the center of the plan show future building so when you come in the driveway you would uh be able to drop off at the future building shown at number nine number seven is showing where a splash pad would be located this is slightly depressed and Gray from the parking lot and the building and then number six shows a large Adventure Playground with three containers and then they're connecting Trails throughout the park other future phase items are tennis courts to the north and ampat shown at number 12 so the cost estimate this is based on the synthetic design so these are high level numbers right now we have estimated in large buckets you can see these are rounded numbers uh the park building civilian is the largest investment in The Phase One Park Improvement about 2 and a half million uh parking lot sanitary water utilities storm water utilities are shown at the top of the the list there and then the playground is about 900,000 spash G 800,000 we recommending a recirculating system for that uh which has a higher cost in the uh short term in capital Investments but shorter cost overall we're showing pickleball courts at about 450,00 and then uh the pl the pave plazas Trail so concrete binous Park amenities and Furnishings Landscaping trees and boulders and then a turn lane which is required by the County on County or 50 that's at almost half million so the subtotal of all of these elements is about 7 and A5 million and then we are showing a 20% mobilization and project contingency cost on top of that with the design and Engineering so total invest esate for what we're showing right now is almost 10 million so some of the the major Investments the pieces of the park that we feel are of primary importance uh based on the work that's gone into this part for the past few years is the building the building we're showing the current concept is about 3,400 square feet there's a large main Gathering area that has uh capacity for 100 people with the opportunity to split the room so that it could be used for two different uses at one time there's an entrance so that allows doorways into each space if it is split into two spaces there's a catering kitchen there are four restrooms two accessible from the exterior of the building two accessible from the interior and then a large mechanical storage space and then there's a couple images showing the rendering the model of what the building could look like uh the playground is another primary importance um feature for this park Improvement project so we're showing a approximately 14,000 square foot playground so this is larger than the existing playground at the park today which is about 10,000 square fet so we are showing three containers there is the possibility to have uh some alternates we've talked about this third container being an alternate or potentially coming up this would still allow a large 5 to 12 year old play area and a two to5 area uh the splash pad is almost 3,000 square feet it shows a variety of above ground and surface Jets and it has uh some seaing around the edges and then again it is a little bit lower than the parking lot and the building to allow for some separation and vegetation around it so that in the winter when it's not being used as a splash pad it doesn't um impact people who are going into the building they're not working walking through it so we have identi identified some alternate items as part of this plan the Regional Trail uh is identified at almost a million dollar investment U it's almost a mile stretch of Trail uh through the park and and so we have been meeting with three Park District and they have uh they have been a good partner they are working on their budgeting tonight actually at their board meeting but they have identified preliminarily to put 500,000 in their budget for next year and 500,000 for 2026 so there's a possibility that we could include rough grading of the trail next year and then do the paving at a later time when that funding is available from free so they will re verse that full cause of the trail development some other alternate items we've identified are shelter Behind The Bu behind the building we're identifying a patio for picnic areas and we're identifying a shelter over that as an alternate item uh We've identified some additional storage which has been desired by operations and maintenance staff in the city so those will be alternate items also irrigation of the fields and field lighting is alternate so at the bottom you can see some of the details the Regional Trail conf this diagram highlights some of those alternate items in purple so you can see the Regional Trail around the edge of the park uh some of the trails through the middle the trails uh this t-shaped trail that goes through the ball fields right now it is class five but we've identified Paving that with pinus to make it more accessible as an alternate item the picnic shelter patio behind the building is an alternate item and then some of those Field improvements irrigation and uh additionally while we have done a decent amount of community engagement efforts uh getting more feedback from the community would be preferred as we would move forward um just because things like themes and what kind of sprayers do you want in a splash pad is more of a specialty that I would like to hear from the community to get get kind of their feedback and what they're looking for out of the amenity uh proposed as part of DD is uh an open house before the parks and trails meeting in November so November 21st from 5:30 to 6:30 it would be an open house setting allow people to come in but if they wanted to provide feedback in a in-person fashion they could do that with staff or some of the Commissioners in addition to that we would also have an online survey running from the 1st of November through the 22nd to provide that option for people who maybe can't make an eff and or prefer to have those virtual conversation but that might be more comfortable Mr may I I wanted to take just a minute to recognize both you along with everybody that's on the parks the vetting that you guys have done to get to this point is huge um I know I attended the one meeting in person and just sitting and listening to everybody in their thoughts and such we've got a great representative group on that parks on the Parks Commission kudos to every one of you guys um but I do like the mindset of doing an open house and see what comes what else comes so gosh some of the stuff that you flipped and changed and done and got to this point rockstars thank you guys very much and I would like to Echo the commission has been putting a lot of time and effort and thought into this and really honed in on the layout and the way that they and Staff feel works well together um but I'll let dad take it back over with great job thank you uh so this slide highlights our design engineer these several of the top items from here up are investments that have already been made by the city so we've done a lot of work on site analysis for the survey the Wetland delineation soil borings uh civil with stantech um architecture from ortell Architects architecture has all been invested in so we're asking tonight for 4 49 and which would be which would cover the design development and construction documents and get through the bidding process and then we have estimated construction Administration which would be the time to administer the construction next summer and fall so the total estimated design fees for this process is around 840,000 and now the fun part we have lots of great renderings a little dark but this is showing what the full buildout of the park would look like so the Regional Trail we're showing coming in at the driveway as the crossing of Highway 50 has not yet been identified uh this showing parking lot the Overflow parking area might not be that many trees in there uh the building you can see there with the drop off area and then behind that the Flash Pad andr uh this is looking a little closer at the playground three containers the splash pad uh this facility right here would house the Mechanicals for the splash pad and there's that potential where you can see this block here for the additional storage if that is desired so this is the container with the zip lines that we talked about with the park commission has a potential alternate item if we want to reduce some costs on the playr investment I had a question that I passed the staff uh after reviewing the packet the poured surface areas within the individual play containers uh my understanding is those are relatively expensive what could we do in terms of additional Play features if we went with a different surface and we stabilizers for the the slope surfaces but where it's flat so the tan correct me if I'm WR is wood chips shown on the pl so it's really just like the green Pathways in between so it provides that accessible route kind of in between the different play structures we could eliminate that technically ADA compliance would be wood chips um so we could go that route I think you're right though that Hillside probably needs something a little more than the wood chips because otherwise that is a maintenance nightmare I think Kevin could speak to that but um we tried to eliminate it as much as we could while still kind of highlighting that accessible piece or highh accessible piece Mr Mayor wood chips are okay Ada compant they y but then again the cost of redoing them year after year and such what was the material that you're planning or wanting to put down now so the tan would be those wood chips or that engineered wood wi and then green trail and on the hillside would be ping place it's like a rubber surfacing smooth not loose correct but it is it is a very cost differ do we can have durability issues too y do we have any idea as to who's going to be using this is this residents outside people like are we paying for a great playground that other people are coming in and the only reason I raised that is because we're you know the last I here we're thinking about raising taxes and I'm I'm just was concerned about this if our residents are not the primary users has has there been a usage study um not to my knowledge I I would think the usage generally would be the same Mark like the same targeted towards the same people that our current Park is it's just that's a growing number of people and existing park has continued to age look at Cost associated if we were to rent out amenities too I mean not so much the playground of Splash Pad but the building we do generally charge different rates for Resident versus non-resident for uh rep programming so I would say that would probably be a vision for the future moving forward too um but as far as the playground goes I would like to assume that we'd get a lot of use from pan residents a nice new playground uh last newest one was in llow park in 2018 and that's the only other playground in the city aside one at city park the city and and to build on what Jessica is saying it's it's important to note that the splash pad idea was generated out of a donation from the JC's in trying to respond to an interest in the community to have that kind of amenity and they donated $100,000 for that uh and then similarly the the playground uh there is a family in the community uh that um has um committed to a significant donation in honor of their daughter uh and actually they aren't even residents here and they're trying to donate money towards our park so in the same regard we might have people who aren't residents that are trying to use it but what came of that is a potential donation for from a family that's doesn't live here yeah so I mean there's there's positives and negatives on either side right no I I get that I'm I'm just I'm I'm hesitant to support an $800,000 spash pad and turn around and ask residents for even more money in this economy I will say the splash pad the playground the building and the pickle B quarts were all shown as very high wanted items in the community by residents so I would say the vision is that they would use it based on the fact that they said that um and then on top of that we could do that engagement survey and get more information if that would make you more comfortable or if there's a different route you want to the the park fund though how much of goes into this we have to determine that what is our current funding in our Park 5,24 4321 we're coming short if this were all to happen we'd be coming up 5 million short with the we have roughly $ 750,00 from other sources uh $500,000 in cpf dollars that came from the federal government $100,000 that's been committed by JC's uh $45,000 from the Handover uh Association 56,000 uh from the corkran association and roughly a 100,000 from a a neighboring family uh we also have some commitments we've got to do bellweather we've got to do correct T so with the 5.2 and then the the 750. 6 we currently in all of our Park development capability have roughly $6 million uh which leaves us roughly $4 million short just for this project plus Bell weather and T Vera projects on the horizon if I could just add because you you said that you know a lot of people have indicated that they that they wanted this you know um I I wonder if we ask them you can you can have this or you can keep $1,000 of your tax tax money I you play that game with a lot of things right well but I'm just saying there there are a lot of things that I want too but then when it comes to paying for it so I just you know I'm very hesitant to spend money when we're asking you know residents to to reach into their pocket even more in this economy we wouldn't necessarily be for this it would that would be dependent on the timing we pull with it no well maybe but what I'm saying generally we're looking at asking for tax increase I don't know that's so we we do have to have a conversation but first I think it's important to to um with the time and energy that's been invested confirm or deny if Council wants to move in this Direction with this type of strategy and then with that then we have to talk about how we Finance this strategy we currently have a financing shortfall there's mechanisms that we can use one of those is time so we do have additional development that's happening more Park development dollars will be coming in the community over time that's a strategy that we could use uh we we could potentially work to find sponsors we've got generous sponsors that have already shown up with some money uh there might be the opportunity there if if we were to to Point say is this of value to you uh would you like to help us go there that's been successful in many communities uh I that's how we got a an accessible playground in Shaka local business and local residents uh we had a significant multi-million dollar shortfall they helped us meet that shortfall with donations because the park Development Fund didn't need it so there's there's lots of strategies first we have to talk about is this the design that we want to go forward with and then we can talk about how to achieve that design and what sort of timeline to achieve it did they buy papers from Shak with their name on it uh they didn't we did a really cool sign and they got their little logo on it uh and then some families did do benches like there's a lot of different it was multi solution just saying lots of tear for naming rights on the building something uh that's something you can explore too um the bank do that in Rogers their Community Center it's the 21st century B Elk River has facilities and things on their ice arena it's kind of confusing for an ice arena but it works it help P for so so tonight can I clarify Furniture and Things sorry fiture can I clarify what we're doing actually please um so um well I'm glad you're here Tom because Tom has been on parks for 25 years and like when I first met him he says the Legacy that we leave is the parks you know um and I I think it's important we also just did do a study on the finances for our town and um it's not easy to afford everything we want and it's challenging um and then we look at like we got a lot of stuff um and you know where do you pull money from without killing everybody in taxes it's really hard so so that I have two questions one is and it's kind of for you guys thanks for all this work this is awesome I like it um we might have cut him short on their presentation they got more cool pictures pictur at the end specific thought you knew we were didn't we got you know we got yeah they're I actually did look at them so um it's really important to to do that we're running out of space and it's cool to have this but holed it's not always easy to do Pool Stuff um so the question I would have is um you're asking for us I believe to spend some money on getting this all going and then continue to design yeah yeah and then so that that I think is a vote we take and then there's the question of like I see in our budget next next year it's 10 million bucks uh I believe is in our budget or maybe the next year whatever and then we also want to move building we here and uh I'm wondering if if there's staging that can be done and I know you guys are antsy and excited to get it done we are too but is there a way to Stage it and if we say yeah let's vote Yes tonight um and then when we actually go fund the thing that we can see what's there like if if we spend let's $600,000 tonight and then we decide to Stage it is some of that money I'll just say pissed away because we didn't do it all right away like is some of or does what we approved tonight can that we last four years or whatever till we pay for this thing because just keep in mind and I know you guys know this I think there 's like 40 more Acres that isn't in the plant that's connected onto the park too and like that so this isn't it there's more to come so if we if we chunk it out I just want to make sure if we say yeah to tonight that if we decide to Stage it then we're not just pissing away money because we it won't actually go to something we're going to do in for you I guess my followup would be if we approve what the request is tonight does that change like the ability to go forward at either if it's next year if we have the money and the park dedication fund for it or to push that out another year or to start some of it is is this ask current that's on the table right now work that needs to be done at the get-go regardless or does that make sense what I'm what I'm getting at yes there is the opportunity that we can phas this plan that we are showing as we continue to design we can value engineer and look at tightening some of the spacing and uh looking at the surfaces and materials and Furnishings to potentially reduce the overall cost if there is a number that we are well my concern is just I like I like the design I like this plan if we had you know 10 million in park dedication I would probably vote to approve it tonight um but we don't we don't have have about half of that and two other parks to address in some capacity so I just don't know what the if it's uh beneficial to hold off on this approval until we figure that out or to do this approval and then hold off on actually going forward with construction until we have the money to do either a big phase of that or the entire of that or whatever it may be Mr Mayor there's another consequence that I I do want to point out here is is that some of our donors have been very patiently waiting for a significant amount of time uh so that's one piece and so we owe them an explanation uh or at least a discussion if we if we choose to delay uh and they may choose to um request their funding back that's might be a consequence but that that's that's a legitimate concern that we need to address uh another one is uh we do have the cpf dollars that we have accepted and we have a timeline that we need to spend them and the H County and the H the county usports uh so so there are dollars we have to spend there's some that folks have committed that have been waiting for a significant amount of time that if we if we choose not to go forward we have to have a conversation with them to ensure they still want to be want that to happen uh um and uh the reality is we don't have enough money to do all of it right now so we have to make some choices yeah I would say in addition to donors getting antsy I would say residents are also a bit antsy because we've been accumulating Park Education funds for a long time we built one half hard in park no offense was the first it was a learning I like that Park I go to it all the time with my kids every wants to go there every time I go for a walk but it's it's got a new bike rack it's got a bike rack thank you for that it's got more than that put your whining for gosh S I missed you at the wonderful event so my point is we've been accumulating Park dedication funds and inflation is rising along with so many of the funds that we collected under earlier nexuses with lower Park dedication values per home were losing purchasing power the longer we fail to do something with that money so I think we need to figure out I I want to build something next year whether it's this whether it's something in B weather and something in Tara I don't think we can continue as good stewards to let the money that's been dedicated to Parks sit unused C point I I guess my concern is like I said I like this plan I would like to to say yes to it right now but we there money's not there to do it so I don't know what the decision so as as Jay set us up his first question was is this a plan that we would like to see and then treat funding as a followon conversation so I would be open if we can find other ways to fundraise for it to do it over a three-year stage something like that um but I guess that's my question is if we approve this tonight as proposed can we figure that out after the fact or no you can choose to do that well we are looking for input tonight on the elements in the plan so we've identified what we thought as the P priorities the building the splash as the playground if there are others you know the pickle ball courts could come up as an alternate earlier or we could reduce the parking or there are some other options that to get to a smaller project but if you want us to deliver a project next year we need to keep working on get and and I hear you but wouldn't it make sense to figure out what we're willing to spend and then pick out what it's going to look like it it's it's kind of like going onto a Car Lot picking out the nicest this car and then gosh you know how how am I got paid for this maybe you figure out what your budget is what you can afford and and then kind of Designing within that budget and I think that's question I'm just concerned tonight that we have it backwards yeah I think part of the question is is is this the overall budget that we want I think we can get there as a matter of when we I we know that Park dedication absent of you know Market drastically changing is going to go up there are some things that are in in phases that we know you know hope as an example that future phases are likely to come in in the next year or two that will add another million plus to park dedication so there are things that we can count on coming in we just don't know exactly when um and the full extent of that so to me it's it's is this the project we want to go forward with at some point we just have to wait for that budget or do we want to scale it back to try to make that sooner to to Bigg you back up was something that was alluded to and that that's the decreasing of purchasing power it's important to note that when this concept originally was delivered I think in 2018 2019 with a $7 million budget roughly uh it's not really that unreasonable that here we are in 2024 and now it's I just want to point that out when you talk about so by delaying the point that was made go it's going to go up it's it's not going to get cheaper uh and also the point that was made the money that we've collected longer that we wait to invest it into our Park system we are losing purchasing power because the equation has changed for what we're collecting today versus what was collected in 2018 I don't I don't know about that but that's a different conversation for a different I don't agree with that but that's a finance and economics question because Jessica redid the park Nexus back in 2022 2023 and we did see non-trivial increases in per unit Park dedication fees yeah so tonight I can we do we vote on this I like it that's what I'm can we say yes this is the plan and then we uh we figure out how to pay for it over time gotta kiss the please do yeah if you'd like to come up look at that look at that service here let's time you 22385 rush Drive member of the parks and trails commission this is phase one I mean we did we have that property and we have we have sketches you know domes and and and all sorts of things that we would love to do before I die and so this we have this is this is kind of scaled back to say what can what can we do our understanding was that we should we should come up with the design and then do exactly what we're doing giving it to you and then you will look at it and say how does the money work I grew up in Minneapolis in Long ago when I played football at Persian field in Southwest Minneapolis we the the Fieldhouse was a WPA Building made out of wood it was painted kind of drab green and it was about worn out in the 70s they upgraded to some really dreary cinder block buildings which are still there and they were dark and they were ugly I don't know how they managed to do it what we're trying what we were trying to do is do something we we were not we weren't honestly really not trying to compete with our neighbors to the to the east was just a different city we we really were aiming at something that was really good for corporate to sort of fit in with the way cor does stff modest um it's hard to believe that a $10 million project is modest but but a lot of infrastructure but that's just kind of the way things work it's also going to last 40 years and if we design something that is inadequate just barely adequate now in 40 years we're going to regret that we regret it the whole time we've got it so it is that balance absolutely between the money we've got the money we can spend and what we are going to do over the next 30 40 years while we're living with that building for sure we want to build we're going to build a Fieldhouse we want to build one that will be usable and suitable and good in 40 years that's really hard to do you know a lot of modern construction from 20 years ago it's got It's got no EV ports it just barely has enough Outlets to plug things into you know the Energy Efficiency is down because it was cheaper to build it without good Energy Efficiency so we want to want to build it right so that it stands the test of time so but you're doing exactly what we want you do we we we we scale back things some I have to admit design Park was not really my speciality but there were some that's why we have several members on the board a lot of those folks got really into it looked at can is this this something that really will suit the community and I think we were we're pretty happy with it I think the design particularly the play areas you know for being rather modest by modern standards this is not Disney World it's not you know it really is not um is is really pry wonderful so I think we've got some pretty good stuff uh uh and it is expensive there's no doubt we do some of it you know we'll settle for some we'll we we'll get what we can get and but just just know that if we don't get it now it'll be a lot more expensive later um and and then and then we have to we have to still figure it out so anyway that's that's sort of where we were we want your feedback we want your tell us what you want us to do if it's the money and we'll work we we'll work best to give exactly best thing for cor we can do with the budget that we really have so appreciate it thanks and just off that Mr Mayor I'd like to say yes to the vision the plan yes but also go and be responsible how much Park dedication needs to go to bellweather how much Park dedication needs to go to tra and yeah and then analyze and make sure we have spent what the right amount is on wildf Flow that makes sense am I saying it right well are you saying like the money that comes in a certain amount of that has to be a that's I'm I'm asking I'm I'm saying it very vaguely just to open it up we've got this much how much should we spend is there a recommendation for Bell weather long time ago that was going to be an open space part there is two separate there is an open space and a neighborhood and a neighborhood part so what are those numbers and then what is the number in Trava and then do we need to spend more to make Jeremy happy and Wildflower I don't think we could spend the whole damn Budget on that he would still wouldn't be happy not if it wasn't a sh not asking for much we put glass tunnels down the sidewalks and all of and he wouldn't be happy anyhow I'm joking do you see what I'm saying we got those three responsibilities and then this one what can we do in Phase One build the building build the parking lot and stop um we haven't done anything to ask we've got so many construction companies aspl companies around here all of those things what kind of donations can we get that way I mean that's where a lot of these a lot of communities build these things from of what can you do to support it I mean we're talking full retail and everything right to build off of that before I forget the point is the appropriate if that's what we want to do is the appropriate way to do that approving this and figuring that out after or holding off on this to figure that out can we make a motion approving the design and then ask them to come back with some hypothetical spin on if we want to phase it over three I'll just make a motion and I don't know if this is technically the correct I want to make a motion on what we would need if we ask them to phase it like right now it looks like we spend it over a year uh Mo uh ask them to come up with a plan a fa three-year phase and what we would need to spend today if it would let's pretend our spend today is $300,000 and that's assuming it gets built tomorrow it's not for the record um but say it's going to be a three-year plan what would we need to spend today could we break that 300,000 into three chunks or does it like yeah if we like your plan and we like stuff about it and we're struggling with a budget can we ask you to come back with a spending plan over three years and would it be different that would can can I can is that a motion before we get to a motion if I if I could we have two one I think Steve can address that's kind of a technical question and then also I was negligent we do have a resident that actually filled out a comment card on this and I want to make sure that we don't miss her uh but I'd like Steve to address your question first I just want what we're ask moving to DD and CD and so what those are is we would bring back a DD which is bringing back 90 90 percentage set of plans so we're putting this park plan to each other bringing that back and saying here's actually what it is an actual cost you're not spending the construction doar now right you're just committing to refining the plan so we know what the construction costs are we have a lot better idea um and one option we have here similar like when we did the water treatment plant is saying um we can bid this project with so remember when we did the water treatment plant we said are we getting value from the third cell let's look at hitting this project could be designed as a holistic part and there's certain elements here that we could try to B alternates if you gave us guidance saying we're unsure about we get to 90% that we talk about and say look these costs I'm not really sure this is worth the value I guess I would like to they could be b as alternates and that's where you talk about phasing of you could vote down no to an alternate for example pickleball Parts just to throw something up that even those could be done with the later phase that's what you're talking about but we don't know that's what I would like there without having a further design right now we're designing from 30,000 ft yeah and getting to but when you talk the beginning about are we wasting money you're wasting money if the plan changes and so if you want to design it now then put it on the back shelf and then completely change it that's when the cost get rest we voted to hire a consultant I'm I designed my own big scape at my house but I I can't design a park so that's why we hired people so I so like you I I couldn't design this thing so I'm or like I would I would like the I like that idea of breaking it into as many alternates as possible because to me most of these like I said I like the general plan to me it's not do I want this in the park eventually or not it's do we do this this part of it next year do we do it in two years do we do it in three years so can can I make an add-on suggestion to that I like where you're going I feel like if we have too many things as alternates you lose economies of scale and all the alternates and costing more yeah maybe it would be good to try to bring it back to the parks and trails we approve design we ask parks and trails to determine okay if you had $4 million for this or you had $6 million for this what would you do in at different spend levels and then we can bid it in such a way that we can try to capture economies of scale at each of those levels y if I if I could build on that I think it would be helpful for staff to have a conversation too to the point that was made by council member Baron Camp what would be a rough guesstimate of what these other commitments that we have in order for us to nail down all right we would set aside E mark this for this project this for this project this gives us as a baseline project for this which then allows us to communicate what we're capable of accomplishing with this understanding that as development continues more Park development dollars are going to come in and so uh to the point the mayor made we're we're expecting another million dollars within the next 12 to 18 months uh so that part I don't want to miss our resident Mr Mayor who submitted a card on up who knows to you for I did notice that we have all kinds of farm stuff in there and I've asked for that in every project I love it so thank you on the building yes yes I can find weather ve F okay Catherine dve us 6747 old strid drive I've been a resident for 38 years um and I'm willing to have put another thousand dollar in off my taxes I don't have grandchildren and if I did they'd be living in Sweden so you know not likely to use but I have a lot of Neighbors with a lot of young kids who would love to have this kind of Park um and you look at corkran we have five school districts and now with all these um puds coming in there is nowhere to bring everybody Central in corkran and unless you want to count the St and bar so well we like that too Don butter children little under1 a place um for community building and a place to bring residents together um I think we don't want to scrimp on the building I've been to I worked in Rogers in the school I've been to countless graduation parties at the at the big building um and so I have a sense of how that works and I can see that working in Corin um especially for the Rockford school people that are on this end of corrid because every Rockford graduation party brings the entire class they just go class comes one party they all go to the next party they all go to the next party um but I can see them utilizing building I can see um Jessica having programming thing there because right now we have no place to have program for exercise classes meetings um I can see people gun training gun training gun right exactly exactly guns and butter I don't want to do that next to the playground either but people you know you renting building for family um things like that so I don't want to see scrimping on the um you know maybe I don't know we like our gravel in corpin maybe we don't need to pay parking lots you know um that's something but I just see more and more uses for having this as a central place you know we don't have a central downtown we you know we don't have anything like that and I think we need to get people in corporate together so that people just aren't huddling in their own neighborhoods or or um with their own I mean it's very easy to do with their own school districts with their own friends let's make this something good and you know I'm willing I just turned my Social Security on I'm willing to give you know part of that check towards something like this um so that's that's what I have to say thank you thank you thank you appreciate it so mayor and Council the request from staff would be um kind of like what Steve was saying they're clarifying the design uh would would then allow us to move forward with the next step that I heard everybody saying pretty clearly staff can come back and and look at our competing obligations and and propose uh with present available funds uh some sort of scope with this first step uh but the big ask is clarifying is this what we want for the community of corkran uh a lot of work's gone into it to Envision it to kind of flush it out but if it is uh we we have to get into the the devils in the details to to figure out how how we do this and and then we can look at our checkbook and see what can we do today Mr Mayor yeah can I make a motion sure I'll do my best here hang on everybody um make a motion that we recommend approval of this Comm IC diagram with specific edits and approval to proceed with design development and construction documents including Jay's dissertation before what I just said is that who's ever taken notes are you able to come up with that DB you're grabbing your head I'm sorry I'll follow the video I just is better I think bigger question is the staff are you able to that as the followup what I heard was design construction documents and clarification of a budget is that accurate generally note version including the additional Parks yeah includ the full scope of our obligations that's what he said the full scope of other obligations which is the other part so we have excluding R yeah as we proceed to look at the other perks are you looking at that being entirely internal are you looking at involving consultant just because truthfully I want to help develop these Parks but I also don't what people want in those Parks I don't know what the cost would be what was our plan for those we have concepts for T Vera that were discussed when Tara got approved there was parks and trail series of meetings on it there was a trail there was a trail there was discussion about like a basketball court and a plate area there was a concept that came in with the development but I don't know that that's ever that wasn't anything from from the city if I can make a suggestion regarding that uh we probably have an opportunity for some public engagement in order to get some feedback uh with each of those neighborhoods that would probably be a good first step um I would imagine we do a similar process to what we did for a wild flower in terms of it being internal that was ready okay but look back though but I mean in terms of I don't know that we need to insult the whole thing out I think it's a much smaller sorry scale project or both of them are that we could figure out once we figure out what amenities the neighborhoods area the city wants I I don't know that if we find that we're exceeding our capacity we'll come back and request permission in order to Leverage Park dedication dollars in order to flush out the details as council member botma said we are not uh we are not Landscape Architects or or designers but we can work with the community to figure out what the community wants and then take it to the next level later because those are more we're looking at the scale of a playround and maybe a court of some sort and how you know how do that arrange how is there some minimal parking but there's not $4 million of infrastructure involved hopefully so I think we did capture motion I do right second mod Vegas we got a motion and a second and we think the Clarity from staff on the motion we'll figure it out okay are we also getting bids at this time or is that a later action okay no bits any further discussion okay I just actually looked at Jeremy at that point but I'm assuming no one else is jumping out okay then all those in favor say I I I opposed oppos 401 okay thank thank you thanks for putting up with us guys what off theic oh okay on to item uh 8 D which is certifying delinquent fees to henan County um page 252 if anybody's reading along actually thank you that's very helpful for me which page team 252 can I make a motion uh yes you can although I have one yeah um so actually no you can't you have to hold the public hearing you have to hold a public hearing can we do both of these together in one public hearing and one motion afterwards potentially you know or do we need to have two separate public hearings fames he cringed a little bit sorry so there's two right there's two different um sets of deling fees that we're looking at can we combine that into one public hearing or to the to be separate you're talking there's just the sewer and water utility fees now that was a revision oh be separ oh well then never mind okay I will go ahead and open the public hearing not all motion to close public hearing do we have a second second all those in favor say I I okay motion to um approve the resolution certifying the 2024 delinquent water and utility piece to head of in County auditor for collection in 2025 second And to clarify that's resolution 2024 112 and 113 just the change okay thank you thank you come on mayor I'm sorry I'm still on Guam time I'm all messed up okay um so we have a motion and a second second any further discussion all those in favor say I I thank you on to 8e can I make a motion uh no it's not a motion no we do need feedback couple things go for it okay Mr Mayor and members of the council the current recycling contract with Republic Services is set to expire on December 31st of this year staff has SP with Republic Services representatives to discuss options for a contract renewal and the contract renewal price is quoted at $6.99 per month per residential dwell for residential dwell the current contract price is $482 per month per residential dwelling and city is currently paying 39 cents per residential dwelling to Public Services per does the city want to so first question is does the city want to continue to offset residential filling by paying 39 cents per residential dwelling per month that's the first question so I had a vague recollection that the existing subsidy that the city provides is the division of some Grant across all households in the city um is that verified did you manage to confirm that that was true or not true so I believe that's correct mishan I weren't able to talk about that after you and I spoke because uh she wasn't but uh it's important to note that that we are using those dollars that we've received from the county in order to offset our cost for Organics recycling so that we are not charging residents for that that's how we're using those dollars at this time and that uses all of them uh I don't know what the balances uh off the top of my head and we weren't able to check that I apologize so what I would suggest is that we determine that and then subsidize in the same way dividing whatever Remains by the number of households only in the in the map matter of if we have a grant right the score Grant or the it's score funding score funding sorry but that's different than the is that different than the recycling the score gr is just for Organics yeah so yeah but and don't we have an or how much is that organic recycling thing we have here so the score Grand covers the organic recycling but that's not what we're talking about right now no I know but if you're taking money from the score grant for Organics recycling if we have a addition you're saying to apply to the regular I don't know that it can be county has requirements around what you can use the S funding for so what is the existing grant that we're using to provide the sub I thought it was if I'm mistaken a minut we weren't able to talk about it we can look into it I'm not aware of any Grant right now we can get to I I don't think we should as a council subsidize fees for other non City related functions so if there's some other entity providing a service I don't think we should subsidize that across the city out of the budget I'm just going to say that if you're looking for direction and And to clarify uh from council member Nichols uh we will verify how that um 39 cents was paid for for 2024 if we're able to continue that uh and distribute whatever that balance is from that Source direction is for us to continue that if that's no longer a source then I'm understanding that we're not wanting to use Levy dollars in order to replace that yeah yeah I don't think score is limited just to Organics I think it's for recycling as well yeah I think if you could bring that back and be Clarity on that then we can so moving forward since we do have the contract that would be my question is do you need us to bring it back or you bring it back as an update because because of the dollar value and the timeline um if if there's funding available staff can move with the direction that you provided us to distribute that we need to communicate that uh whatever that's going to be but we we need to make a decision in terms of our contract with Republic right away yeah my direction would be to proceed and then if if there's dollars available from the grants that we already get that can be applied as a subsidy we should do that but correct if there's no funding for that we shouldn't use our dolls for itk the second thing the council should um consider is the contract renal terms would be four or three years with a 5% annual increase Republic Services could consider a four or fiveyear term but however due to timing they may be they are open till one year renewal at this point yeah I I would say we should just do the onee renewal because the last time this was renewed was in the middle of Co supply chain disruption and we didn't B because nobody could make enough P so I I think we should go out for bid next year but I'm fine with a onee extension to give us the time to do that yeah I would agree yeah good with that y okay perfect um then we are on to planning items uh we have a public hearing first and then we'll go on to a concept plan um let's go ahead and dive into the public hearing I will go ahead and open that um is this for both or just the this is for 9A for the evening vacation I ke can I make a motion to public hearing uh yes second any discussion all those in favor say I on to the item itself may I make a motion to uh approve the ID or the resolution the resolution 2024 119 approving to easement vacation do we have a second got it beat you uh any further discussion all those in paper say I I okay then on to 9B which is a concept plan review uh of uh chastic property thank you Mr Mayor uh this is a um concept plan that was applied for by Treck real estate development and hle real estate doing business as Emerald Rose LLC this is for the property located at 7600 Maple Hill Road and it's important just off the bat to remind the council that right now the land use designation in our 2040 comprehensive plan is low density residential for the site which requires density at 3 to five units per acre and the existing zoning district for the site is rsf2 which was one of our single family zoning districts the concept plan is for 103 single family homes under the rsf3 zoning standards on roughly 38 acres located uh Northeast of the County Road 10 and Maple Hill Road in inter section so this is just the visual of the concept plan um I do want to note that the it does include the trail here like I'll get my laser pointer does include the trail on the northeast I'm sorry on the North End of the site and that is in our 2040 comprehensive plans that is in compliance and then it connects roughly to where the landing point is on the east side for the approved development at Fairway Shores so the I'm just going to go over the main discussion points in most areas the applicant is committed to complying to the standards in our city code has written um so there's really three discussion items that staff identified first being is the concept plan shows the development per rsf3 standards which would require a resoning application from the current rsf2 zoning District there's not a lot of difference between the two districts uh the setback are the same the maximum principal building height is the same the primary differences is the minimum lot area in rsf 2 is 11,000 square feet whereas rsf3 that's 7500 square feet and then the minimum lot width is 80 feet for rsf2 whereas rsf3 is 65 feet wide lot than the minimum size so all their again all their District standards are the same and so there should be some discussion tonight to help guide sorry to interrupt does that include isn't there difference in the two between um allowable units in terms of like town homes or they that that that yes there is a use so this is more about the the lot configuration but you are correct there are there is a use change and that rsf3 theoretically allows to town homes they are not proposing Town Homes they're Pro proposing 103 single family units for this development but that is correct in terms of the use table for the district is there a uh um do we make motions on this or is this in this just a concept yeah so this is feedback on a on a concept so the ne will the next be a uh concept plan and then the preliminary and then the final or is it this is the concept plan okay and then okay so the next application would be uh rezoning and preliminary plat so we are going to do the preliminary plat how far did we get on this did we get the final plat before preliminary oh okay okay I just I just wanted to know if we could skip one of the steps if this is the only difference but it sounds like we're on we didn't get that far so we're good and question answer thank you natal I'm sorry if I could ask um it appears to me that this that this uh plan is inconsistent with the prior application with respect to net acreage can you tell me what the what the reason is for that so growth acreage is about 38 net net acreage I did talk about that in the staff report um that it doesn't look like they included flood plane when they initially provided the concept plan once we include the flood plane in there then the net acreage should be the same so I think it was just a difference in who designed the sign and they just did or designed the concept plan and so they just didn't realize that we also include flood flan when we talk about net acreage so that would be something that I identified that would need to be confirmed with preliminary application okay because if I if I understand it correctly the applicant has us a hair under three no it's a hair above three right now it's that's what that's what the applicant is saying it's a hair yeah so the applicant the applicants form for density um and this [Music] might uh so I was about to go into density on the next slide but yes so the applicant's formula for density on the concept plan was just under three units an acre but when I went back and just kind of confirmed because I thought that the net acreage didn't look quite right and realized that they didn't include the flood plane in that equation once you include that that's how we're getting to the 3.07 units um which is just above the three units in eer required for low density residential okay so so you're in agreement with the applicant that we're above three bar yeah at this time we have a preliminary estimate of 3.07 units in yes okay all right thank you but I do think that's an important distinction because of it it determines whether or not there's a whole another step in evaluation required yeah that's one that's one of the discussion items because I am typically we see it go up when we have it go when we have our preliminary estimate to our more finalized estimate you typically see it go up I'm a little uncertain whether or not that that's going to be the case here because there's a number of wetlands being filled in and so once we remove those Wetlands we can't the final calculation wouldn't include that so I'm a little concerned with how close we are that it could come back lower um particularly if we have to remove any units to meet engineering requirements so I do think it's worth to to have a discussion on if the preliminary plaid application comes back under three units an acre how should staff guide the applicant to proceed the options I outlined in the staff report were the comprehensive plan amendment to conservation residential to allow density up two to three units per acre the concern here being there is not a lot of existing natural resources on the site unless we're talking about drainage patterns and saying that water is the natural resource think that may be a stretch but you can tell me whether or not you that I also try to thought there I would not be supportive of going to the Conservation District um requirements that we've set the next thing to then consider to help deal with the conflict that we're having with the the zoning district and the land use designation is looking at our zoning ordinance do and doing some kind of amendment either to allow a smaller lot withd or a lot area in the rsf3 OR establish a new zoning District that has those low lot SI that would be another way to get to a district that allows for three units an acre safely I would say so far our experience with rsf3 is theoretically it should work but once you're dealing with the natural resources on the site and the way that you're dealing with the patterns you're working around a wetland there's an exception piece here that you have which limits what you can do so it's not as clean as you want it to be it's difficult to hit that three units an acre Woodland Hills is the only other rsf3 plat that we've approved and that one came at about 2.6 units a meter if I recall it was definitely well under three go ahead sorry could they deal with their lack of buildable area by using Twin Homes they a conditional use in rsf3 and you should be able to get more units per linear foot of buildable Road area that be a question for the applicant I think uh while Twin Homes are allowed use some sometimes the builders don't necessarily have a twin home model not that they can't create one not that they can't talk to a builder that's interested it's just one of those products that not everybody makes so it's not as common um you you do have the larger National builders that like um lar for example that does have a twin home model that they're able to use um for sites but I with the size of this site I don't think that lenar would be in the market for this development but I think they could go ahead and speak to that further yeah You' come up thank you mayor and um he up rence back um we're not opposed to building Twin Homes I think but with the zoning code requires that the lot size doubles so it goes from 7500 to 15,000 square foot that's for page 97 of your um zoning requirements so doesn't help us get more Lots could you please state your name so that we oh sorry Ben krisak with hemple real estate the width goes up by less than double but I take your point on the overall area yeah yeah because I think for the most part we're pretty close to the 7500 so Natalie when you sorry to to up um when you mentioned the resoning you could stay up if you have more just be really brief um when you mentioned there so there's a decision on you know support or at least feedback on support of rezoning and potentially of changing that zoning District standards has there been something thrown out as to what this is this is me throwing out ideas on how to solve a solution or how to reach a solution um so I would say we could go about a couple different ways we could look at rsf3 and just lower those standards down a bit um see what it looks like at 60 ft we can work with the applicant to see that get us a little bit closer especially as they finalize their plans um and then we could uh so that could certainly be situation or we could look at creating a new zoning District again um maybe it's 55 foot wide Lots maybe it's 60 foot wide Lots I don't know exactly right now that would definitely could be some of the feedback we get tonight what we'd be open to exploring um I'll just say that uh I think that in situations like this where there's not a lot of natural resources that there's still reasons why we're not hitting that three units Meer it may make sense to look at our zoning District standards to figure out what we can do to get to three units an in those areas that are gued for low density do we have any other areas in the city that we are committed to then being rsf3 currently hope we okay no I don't believe so I think everything is zoned rsf to to my understanding besides Woodland Hills which is yeah could I just add something quickly Mark oh I'm I'm sorry go so I I want to say that I I I support this concept plan in in principle I think my only concern here is that there seems to be um it it there's almost numbers at odds here I believe the applicant stated um the calculation is 2.8 units an acre which is below where I think we need to be and I think you said that we're just above three it it I'm I'm concerned about giving the applicant further feedback if I don't know which number I can rely on it's almost as though we we don't have solid density numbers to to base decisions on I mean I think at you know if it if it wasn't for the Met count I would tell the applicant great application but we have to deal with these these uh you know standards that are being forced on us by the Met Council and I I I it's it's difficult for me to give advice not knowing is it 2.8 like the applicant has in the plan or is it 3 point whatever 3.07 like like you said what do we have to do to get an actual number before we give guidance so the actual number for the preliminary estimate which is usually what we have at this stage is 3.07 I can say that with confidence I want that confirmed my concern is when we get to the Met Council formula which we don't know until we've done the engineered plans that is where we're going to see it potentially go under the three or it could go it could be more than 3.07 typically it goes up I just think in this situation we are removing a number of wetlands on the site um and then I I don't know how the engineering requirement might like in this situation if they lose three lots at 3.07 if they lose three lots by the information I have today they're under three units in acre um so that's not a lot of wiggle room and so it' just be helpful to understand when I'm working with them to finalize the preliminary plat if we come up into that situation what would be the preferred way for the application to proceed at that point so what I'm hearing is potentially more of a zoning ordinance Amendment more than a comp plan Amendment at that yeah I'd be hesitant to do a comp plan Amendment because I don't think it meets the requirements of that additional District we've created and I'm hesitant to add a lot of new area into that right now when met Council seems to be going in the opposite direction of saying oh wait you might actually have four unit per acre as a requirement um so I guess yeah that's where I would sit on that right now and hold on I want to make sure they appli okay um thank thank you mayor um yes so the issue we're having is the comp plan is requiring three units per per acre and so we're just trying to um make the zoning match into that match into your comp plan and just you can't make I mean rsf2 doesn't work because 11,000 lots and you just can't map that out once you put roads on there making that work and so we're kind of stuck in this Con conundrum where it's like well met Council won't approve that and right he says we don't want to do this and we have a property that has no well and I think if I'm I don't want to speak through the rest of the council but I think maybe there's been some openness to potentially looking at the resoning aspect of it the rsf 2 to three or two clearly doesn't work what the if I may I get a question I remember hydraulic Corridor out of this I remember a lot of good things on the previous plan what was the what was the number on the previous plan units per acre so it was about 3.22 was the estimate I had at the end of that but was that also changing the zoning P to a p to a p UD they're trying to come in under a straight plat that was I understand I understand and appreciate the design change and such like that so I got it thank you and again you still have the hydraulic Corridor that what you called it yep yeah it won't be viewable the way that the previous one was yeah it's changed a lot but I just they appreciate the two entrances on the west side and then the one staying in the North in the southeast side and everything else I got it thanks so um I feel like there there any more comments you want on this there was the last item uh discussion go oh I want to make sure that you got did you have no we're we're here to listen okay I have one final question I I I guess I'm just wondering if it would make sense to table this until we have solid density numbers those are as solid as you get until you have fully engine which and I think it's Norm it's it's not I think the difference isn't that much more than normal is that it falls and that if it was 3.22 to 3.1 we wouldn't be as concern because it those above and under that three how many significant figures are in the requirement H how many significant figures are in the requirement does it is it three or is it 3.0 oh I'm only slightly kidding because this is a real thing I I I would say if it's 29999 we're under three so we need to hit 3.0 Z 3.01 they don't rounding rules like I think we could probably round up if it's two point I but I think I don't think it's going to be that I if we lose three lots it's like 2.97 so they're not going to round up to three but typically my experience they'll go out to the 100 now since you mentioned losing lots uh I know in the original application um Public Safety chimed in and I think there was mention of a cuis act or something like that yeah do we anticipate that the applicant would lose uh another lot for a cuis act or has Public Safety backed out of the whole cuis Act I do have another slide where we talk about the roll go for okay okay so the so then part of this application some of the differences is there we have the entrance that was previously shown that's about Midway up on the site on map Hill Road and then there is another access shown full access onto Maple Hill Road on the Northern end in addition to the two accesses to the east to connect to Fairway Shores which it gets you to furling um the issue with this Northern access is there's there's three concerns that are coming up it does not comply with the road Network that the city has in our Southeast District plan which is uh right here so it C creates a conflict with the spacing that would be established on the West Side additionally it creates uh a conflict with two existing driveways for the church on the west side of Maple Hill that exists today so this road is um offset from an existing driveway access um and then also in the middle or not quite in the middle but there's also one over here and so the spacing does is a bit concerning and then it also Maple Hill Road is designated to be a connector street so the space between this access as well as the northern access it doesn't meet our spacing guidelines for our engineering standards so the staff recommendation is that this Northern Street should have a turnaround with and then if it's de necessary and emergency access could be provided as a compromise without um creating those conflicts with to the west and further uh just wanting to note that the extent and details of Road Improvement serving the development including Maple Hill Road would be further reviewed as the development moves forward the those were that the last main discussion Point discuss is there a secondary access at the southeast Corner yes there have two regardless we'll have three they have three four with this this one's four it just creates a number of conflicts what would happen if they got rid of one of the accesses on the West Side they got rid of the north access it would function um it would function the um the main concern is that we have at least two that's not a that's not a standard that's more of a public safety um making sure that we have flow through the development and we're getting three so we have the two points to line up with Fairway Shores to the east uh and those are set and then we have the one on mle hill so they would have multiple ways in and out of the development with uh connecting to furlane and then I think we could look at an emergency access in that Northern Area so emergency access could still get in as well so would more than function and it would be safe and if that were changed to a cack what we're talking about potentially losing yes and then they'll potentially use lose one to two ODS right there okay but probably not more than that I don't we would have to look at it I I don't I I can't imagine it be more than two but but yet be an emergency axis we could look at an emergency access yes you need an emergency access there if you've got three other I don't believe that we would need it because the previous design had more homes and had three and we were saying that we would need it if furlane wasn't connected day one but if ferlan was connected day one we don't NE we don't need that um I don't expect that feedback to change from Public Safety but um I'm not Public Safety so I'd have to come back with that conversation okay all right I won't be on city council but your opinion is still Valu I don't fair enough um additional questions you have for us I guess if we go to the call the sack we're going to lose two lots then we're definitely under three units breaker um that's the 3.07 once we hit three lots that's when you're under three so again that's Again part of why I wanted to have that conversation is what do we do if we're right on the cost and so I think we got the feedback that we would preferred way to handle that would be looking at potentially a zoning organs amendment that reduces the lot withd to maybe get you closer to that three and make it up elsewhere how far off is that Northern Road to the church how staggered is that yeah I wish I had a better zoom in let me see if I can get a better zoom in through it's May 30 feet it's I mean the here I'll try to it's also super close to the entrance to Maple Hill I did I know that I'm just there but M Hill just North there too so it's on both sides of the road yeah it just the church obviously the parking lot can't move and their driveways can't move and the church isn't moving they just I wanted to just yeah so in my mind what is it councelor bearing camp this might be a little oh it's a very pretty picture I like that oh yeah on a water tower some that's a rendering of the develop right is it not I don't know how I you're on V I don't know I know here one second I'm gonna make a quick snapshot and put it into my power I'll do some tab Dan and has anybody seen the new pictures on the water tower the new logo I turned pretty okay turned out pretty Dar good send that picture to Alan yeah uh I saw the other day uh there was a Facebook comment on our page from Allan on it okay but it was just like a I totally missed that opportunity to think lik it I texted it to everyone else how did I fail I did that pretty quick okay so here is got it the road and then this is the driveway so to the what the church it's so it's it's not great we would not recommend understand but again my concern on public safety and stuff a call the SEC and and the numbers that stuff you all got to work out but a called us sa but yet with a knockdown barrier for emergency access and stuff is was one of my biggest things so yeah I think there's generally more support of I mean ideally coming in at that three and not having to adjust it but I I think there's there's a lot of hesitancy about going to a lower uh or density density District um but potentially some interest or some uh okay except acceptance I guess of changing zoning to rsf3 I'd prefer not to change the zoning District but if it's something that we think broad more broadly we need to look at tweaking a little bit I think there'd be openness to looking at it I would be hesitant to commit to to a specific number now but right I think that's fair I think we would um I think as staff and the applicant work we can figure out what that number would be and bring that back I'm not sure if this is feasible or not could could you bring up the larger plat that shows all of the Lots so I don't know if this is feasible I I'll throw it out as an idea the uh the two lot up in the upper left what would happen if instead of having this road connect instead of having a culdesac could this become like a twin home lot and have a driveway access off of the end and not have to lose a lot they have to have Frontage and they have to meet the minimum fren that be a variance and they're trying to avoid any Varian so um if that the preferred route um that'd be helpful to know now um and then I would say the other thing to keep in mind if it's like a private Drive serving two twin homes that might Al I'd have to look at how that fits with in our standards as well two yeah that was going to be one of the pey flexibilities because we only allow private drives in the Musa for two hes specifically so that was going to be uh I think there was one instance in the previous application not in the final version but when there was a private drive it was going to be a p flexibility and so again we're trying to avoid any deviation I guess I would I'd be hesitant to push them entirely towards the looking at more twin or town H home or looking at Town Homes but if it's aren allow they are in rsf three they're not no it's just Twin Homes in the rsf 3 okay good that came up on good deal i' I'd still be a little hesitant on the pushing them towards Twin Homes but I would say if it comes down to to like one variance access thing needed to either meet or not meet the density I think i' be S of finding a way to make I wouldn't want the one lot access situation to make it or not Make It or Break It for the whole development I don't think it's I don't think it's that big of an issue yep I agree so that's the that's the bailout option if the density doesn't get hit would be to what do you mean allow that as a variance oh well I mean it would I guess it would be dependent on the facts but I would be supportive of trying to find a solution some kind of Private Drive if yeah if need if it's just that on a lot or two in that corner there to uh to make it work or it's not going to work at all I'd be generally supportive of trying to find a way to to make that work whether it's a variance on that lot or I mean it's going to be dependent on the facts but I would I wouldn't want to have that hold up the entire rest of the dev that Mak sense it's another question um so I guess if we take what is that lot 10 and 12 there um you're saying put a town home Helm a single family um last 12 13 14 though we need to have some sort of turnaround access right you want to have still have some sort of call this AC are you saying that all all those lots would be on a and I think even with a private building some type of TR around so I don't know if it exactly solves it I think it's just they're trying I just want to make sure like it seems like we're creating a new problem yeah we have three different standards but I think that would you might not be able to fit it all North with that exception parcel yeah yeah I guess I I would lean more towards if you had to cut if you had to cut without a lot we think that a lot can work at least in terms of density um as opposed to having to cut out the five or six there like with a turn I would I would say that there's probably a engineered solution that could be figured out whether it's punching that through or having a turnaround and having to figure out that one corner lot but I I don't know that it needs to expand all the way down to the bot 14 yeah I hope not excuse me um I think that that's helpful feedback if it's maybe it's and maybe it's not necessar the private drive maybe that's a variance of there is one smaller lot in order to kind of lot that's another option that's that's what I'm trying to say yeah any other feedback questions okay thanks okay thank you good deal with that we will move on to uh let's see your Council reports um I don't have too much I was out of time this week in Guam so that was an experience how was your trip it was awful but thanks for asking I would not recommend flying uh Atlanta to Soul South Korea uh in a middle seat but that's just me um I had very nice uh older Korean lady who was sitting next to me that made it Pleasant on the way there but was not as fun on the way back um but yeah it was uh it was an experience and yeah other than that any other Council reports okay then with that I will entertain a motion to adjourn second motion second third de you got to figure that out but we'll give you all the leeway to pick whoever you want of the four of them all right all those in favor say I