to pull up that sorry [Applause] stand sh like I could actually read the print [Applause] [Applause] yeah so let's start with some introductions um you may not have met Thomas yet I've seen him a lot in the last few months uh so we've got myself Gabby and Thomas Gabby's with h KGI so she's been helping with like the big Park proper Thomas is with or architect so he's been helping a lot with the building um if either of you want to introduce yourself further I'd be happy to let you that's an appropriate introduction all right thank you are you okay so update on where we are in the design process you've seen this timeline for so we're in design development which is the Midway point we completes mag design in the fall and working uh on the 60% this is so we're presenting the draft 60% design Set uh so these are just some images refreshing of what we have developed so far so schedule update right now we are looking at the February 13th city council meeting for our final 60% design review meeting so we were shooting for January but that got pushed back so we do hey Merry Christmas everybody I like this holiday too Merry Christmas next slide uh so the purpose of the meeting tonight is that we're seeking input from you on the playground equipment we have received play equipment renderings and Concepts from three different vendors Splash Pad we've received Concepts from two different vendors and then it just in general the design where we're at if there are any comments on the design uh so engagement just just over this we just went through it uh so we kind of went through those top priorities the design and Landscape preferences uh playground and splash pad insights does anyone have any questions um we can go through it all again but this is kind of why we did it before connectivity safety Community Vision incorporating that corkran field demographics of resp all right uh so this is the site plan where we're at right now we are showing um in highlighted in the red dash line what items we are listing as alternates right now so the base bid that we're showing is um starting from the west side we have the level playing area for soccer fields and cricket and other Recreation uh two is showing where storm water ponding will be located in the southwest area of the park uh three identifies the large paved parking lot with about 260 stalls four identifies the existing ball field that we will be making a little bit smaller and identifying as a youth ball field five shows the destination playground six is where the splash pad is located next to the building and the parking lot seven behind the building is a patio with the alternate overhead shelter uh eight is the new park building nine is showing where we have overflow parking potentially future pave parking if that becomes a need in the future and then and then 10 is where the pickle ball courts are shown to the west of the parking lot you can go next uh this diagram highlights where the trails will be located so the lime green color is showing where the proposed Regional Trails located that's the Diamond Lake Regional Trail which is three R Park District I just want to point out to the south of the parking lot there's that segment just along the South edge of the parking lot we plan to grade out that uh that section but we wouldn't pave that until the trail head is built in the future and then the orange highlights where binus or asphalt Trails be located along the parking lot and then an alternate Trail is shown from the park building down to the t- ball field so that would be access for um ada8 access down to the t-ball fields and then the blue is where concrete would be located so around the building would be concrete Plaza and Patio areas and then between and around the playground and splash pad would be sidewalks and then uh in the central part of the parking lot there is a concrete sidewalk that cut uh goes from east to west through the parking lot for access to the pickle ball courts where there is a concrete Plaza shown in between the pickle ball courts I have a quick question yep I know at one point we you thought you might need storm water between the what will be the new youth field and the playground is was that ruled out as needing or what what what is going to be in between there yeah we've talked about that with the with stantech our civil engineers and it seems like that there may be potential for a small rain Garden in there it may be more aesthetic than functional due to the soils there are a lot of clay soils but we are we're planning on bming a little bit along the edge the out edge of that ball field in order to have some buffer between the Outfield and the playground okay good yeah I'm glad to have that there than a storm drain yeah good all right next uh this slide highlights where we are recommending new trees and then if you can see the red circles they're mainly in the central part of the park from North to West those will be removed most if not all of those trees are ash trees Tre so we talked through that option about if we would recommend saving them because a lot of them are large trees they do provide existing shade which is nice but uh the city's not interested in treating them over the years in order to save them with Emerald dashboard coming so we're deciding to remove those and plant new trees and to be fair it was a discussion during our development Review Committee of we don't currently have a policy it's not likely that one will be developed in the first of future so yeah that was my only note on this page it would be all those ones up on that Hill would be would have been really nice to maintain that shade cuz it's a really both for the t-ball fields and for the people sitting at that Park do we need a policy to treat this one time they're quite expensive to treat and it's an ongoing treatment like it's not just a onetime treatment and it's not guaranteed that it'll work are they infected or not not that we are a knowledge aware of because could you keep them and then remove them as they become affected or except for the one that's like where the building is obviously it's a just I'm just curious because there isn't really anything that's impeding they're just sort of around everything so it seems like why would you get rid of them if you're going to just be remove surv this long they could last years I don't know if they're not diseased already I don't understand why we would remove them if they're if they're good trees and if they're not in the way if they're in the way I get it yeah I'm on board with that we could discuss it potentially we could plant new trees around that could fill in the canopy as we have to remove the ash trees over time if the city is going to develop a policy in the next year or two and there there are a few PL I mean putting a new tree next to a ash tree will make removing the ash tree when a b is just problematic depend yeah depending on how close how close it is there are some spots there where there there are no new trees going in there's just especially on the kind of on the North side there's some some ash trees seems like some of them could be left and knock them down when they when they die it just seem or leave them up for for wood Pickers or right to fall on small children it just seems like if that was one of the top things in our survey was that trees were like something that was really wanted it seems to me that it's not maybe the best course of action for us to say like let's remove those big trees so just something maybe we should talk more about yeah I like the idea of them providing shade at least for the first half of the day to the park yeah when you go play like the te- ball that's where a lot of people sit is up that hill too or the kids run around up there too look at the shade at night okay yeah looks good it's good feedbacks while we're here so the um this diagram shows a little close more closely you can see the trees that are identified um the southern part of the parking lot we're identifying a pretty heavy screening buffer as is required as part of city code since the parking lot is less than 100 feet from the edge of the road we need to have a strong screen so we're recommending a variety of coniferous and trees in there and then on the Hedge why wouldn't we just do all Evergreens all the different types just for more interest and variety okay and evergreens are still not native you're their lifespan is pretty limited yeah just want to Shield that road as much as possible they don't like the clay isn't it t uh like there's a lot of places that are now putting in like Oaks and Maples on Main Streets because they last longer I know that AR gr that they need to have like maintenance and when the next bore comes along that's an oak boore or something right but anyways okay sounds like you there is on the northeast corner of the building site there is a really nice Oak that is shown in that bluish green color that we're proposing to keep and so we're um we looked that making the yep the patio around the building just a little closer to the building just so we can make sure that we don't impact the root zone of that tree I might have said you guys like trees and then well I wouldn't want to come down in this oak tree either that would be unfortunate uh and then the pink areas are showing landscape areas so we've talked back and forth about landscape areas we're recommending potentially some low maintenance PL planting Beds which could be shrubs and perennials uh potentially some prairie seeding or pollinator mixes so we want to make sure that we're planting plants that are easy to maintain for City staff but that will also provide some habitat value and also some nice texture rather than just having tur grass everywhere one of my thoughts on this one was it's very windy at the park so I know you put there's deciduous around that playground and Splash SP it might be worth considering like a wind helping with some of the wind buffer with um like pine trees or gfer treets are on the left west side of that on the west side cuz it is like I I I don't know what the wind's going to be like when we regrade everything but it's right now pretty open spaced up on that playground or in the middle of that par there and might might be might be a good idea to break some of that up around our key features okay all right any other comments soil is really bad for trees well there's just a lot of clay so we just want to make sure that the species we plant are okay tolerant of I think ponderosa pine is like the weed of the Evergreens I think they're really good I want to think about [Music] that are there desire for any other species in particular Oaks sorry sorry um I was just going to ask if like in the parking area are there like irrigation to water those trees we've discussed irrigation we're identifying it right now as an alternate but I think maybe around in the landscape areas we'll probably recommend drip irrigation at a minimum so we are we are including it in our cost estimate but based on whatever the cost is it may um come out as an alternate depending which may limit where we plant certain species planting beds and trees so yes that's a good point we need to think about irrigation to make sure these plants survive something I do want to note before we make it much further there might be a couple of slides in your packet that seem a little off we made a few minor adjustments to the slideshow you should have all of the slides the only difference is it might say January 23rd and now that we're looking at February 13th and then when we get to building we did readjust the order of the slides just that when we hit that point you're not going I can't find these Pages they should be in there they just might not be in the right order Tom you happy with the trees you know I am happy with the trees yes I'm assuming that that your American elm is some of the new yeah the varieties y yeah and I they haven't I've know a few of them and they're they're not really Elm trees but they're they're seem to be okay otherwise otherwise These are nice and um yeah no I like them a lot Hackberry is a wonderful tree swamp white oak is good biver bir is fine so yeah mostly we have to if you let me know the day they're planning them I'll come out and tell them they're covering up the red flare you supposed to do that okay doesn't the River Birch need a lot of fire shouldn't you know we've got one we've got one actually a church growing growing in a parking lot between a sidewalk and the parking lot and it's not growing very fast but it's doing fine and we got some that are in a in a rain garden and they're big and not very strong and so so the the small one is is better I've got one in my backyard too yeah yeah it's doing okay okay that's good yeah the only thing I'd add is maybe Quaking Aspen cuz then those are really fast growing so then the Oaks and the maples those take a while they do but you know oak trees grow surprisingly fast they just you know you're talking 30 years but you know it's okay one lifetime Yeah well yeah it's half a lifetime yeah third of a life yeah I'll watch them grow and then retire yeah yeah it's nice other questions on trees and [Applause] land all right so for storm water uh we're still in the process of verifying exactly where the storm water will go but this slide highlights uh some considerations modifications that the civil engineer suggesting so due to the infrastructure and piping costs of all of the impervious surface on the parking lot the building the play area the splash pad getting that over to the Southwest Aira of the park they recommended that we switch the pickleball layout and I know we had this before but um to the the northern six so in the black Dash lines that would be six pickle ball courts and then the storm water ponding would shift to the southern directly south of those six pickle ball courts and then if there were pickle ball expansion at 12 in the future those would go to the West so there would be 12 in a row instead of 6 over six the reason for that is that with the soccer balls or other balls in the Playfield open Playfield space there would likely need to be fencing along that Western storm water Pond to prevent balls from going going in there so that would be more cost and then the piping infrastructure needed to get the water over to that Western Pond would be higher cost so potentially Savings of around $30,000 to move the pond closer to the parking lot but the current concept shows the Far West larger Pond would be a wet pond so it would always have water in it the central Pond would be sometimes wet sometimes dry and then the southern one to the south of Park lot would be um always dry just filtration the pickup all quarts again so you could have the six there the way it is the six and then if we added later so right now six are shown in kind of a square almost MH this would be changing it to be a longer oh it would almost serve as like a buffer so that not having soccer balls go into the storm water P now to be fair this isn't necessarily the layout of the soccer fields it'll be dependent on what the program looks like because we do kind of shift and change the field sizes and numbers dependent on registration but this helps kind of make one larger or two so if you get six in a row and we wanted to add more where would those go to the West so it would be some of this would be gone some of that storm water Pond would be gone because it would be below the pickle ball quartz it shift to the South okay does that make sense kind of it might help if I zoom in here that one has water in it all the time that might be safer anyways the kids are going to be on that field I don't know it depending on how deep it gets and so this would shift to join in with this one that makes sense and then these three cords would be here instead is it going to add additional cost then to have that concrete patio extend all the way out we probably wouldn't make it as wide probably be narrower just go along with the other three gotta does that help clarify no true preference either way well I like them you know the way they are yeah we had a discussion on that as to why but if that doesn't work and and it's going to cost us a ton more I don't think it's so much the cost savings as like both the the fact that the balls are going to go in there it's probably safer this way and it saves some money do you're the one fetching them out huh I hope not I'm hoping that this means that we don't have to although I have seen people use a little pool net to get stuff out of those ponds so I've got some ideas she's going to want a new one we don't have one I'm going to need one anything more on storm water [Applause] this is uh for those of you that knew Brad Martins when he was here you'll notice there's a sledding hill on here that was his dream Mount cork so this slide highlights what we think winter use might be obviously the building would be for season so that could be used in the winter uh if there is snow there could potentially be skiing or snow in through the fields uh there will be winter walking on the trails of course uh snow playing with snow in the field and then we suggested a sledding hill if that trail is not built down to the t-ball field since that is an alternate Trail then that little Hill could be a sledding hill and then we have the existing hockey and skating use quick question on the hockey ranks is there just two hockey ranks or three those would be the hockey ranks that exist just still three then okay [Applause] yep so two with boards one's a youth rank of that one an adult and then they'll free skape [Applause] okay all right next is lighting uh so we're highlighting we're laying out lighting lights within the park we're looking at a parking lot which would be Street scale type lights overhead lights Cobra style and then the yellow would be pedestrian scale lights and then we are showing some ballards which would be around the building and at the pickleball courts so you go to the next slide um we are still in progress but the minimum goal is to provide security lighting for the parking lot so that it's safe especially in the winter when people are parking and walking into the building the pedestrian scale lighting around the playgrounds potentially an alternate might not be entirely necessary but looking for input from this group on your feelings and then the ballards would be more for lighting at the drop off area in front of the building near the splash pad and then the pickup ball carts so the parking lot lights would be the standard Cobra light like I said we don't have an image of that but if you can imagine when you drive along the street you see those lights that stick up big ones but they make things safer we have to have those yeah we don't have to it's a if we want to provide security and sa I mean can we use a different light yeah it would just be more expensive so the Cobra are the basic you know the lowest cost for providing the most light could we just do more of The Pedestrian or larger pedestrian scale lights or something those are really cool yeah they just provide less light so we don't need more of them I would almost add one of the yellow ones to the top the part oh oh this is where you said it's different than on there okay that one that's on the top there yeah by the ball field no it's great uh that just means we're yeah that was Edition and then but then maybe one on the bottom left by the that trail head I'm just kind of thinking of the whole parking lot um safety wise and we yeah the Park's open till 11: so it is going to be dark while it's still open so that's where lights can be important for us that's still going to be the hour as your staff I really like lights at the park yeah walkway lighting can we get something is that the actual light that's picked out right now those are what we're looking at specking now so can we do something a little more low profile close to the ground for which one for the the ballards yeah people are going to kick those and knock them down so what are you thinking like a surface light I mean if you could get that low I don't know if you can or not with because you need the light obviously but get as low to the ground as possible you want to see the light but you don't want to see the light fixture MH what about the winter then though yeah like if the building's being rented out and would we' have someone like shoving I mean those lights would get covered in snow eventually too we could just not have ballards the building will have Lighting on it I don't know if there's a concept yet for the outdoor lights on I like having walkway lighting I think it has the Ambiance but I think those are how tall are they yeah M look three and a half fourt there a 3 and 4 ft I was picturing like This Tall oh those like like waist TI oh okay now I can picture it a little better I was picturing like a garden light or something oh like a little steak Yeah like people okay people aren't just going to walk into those kick them over okay thank you do that CH yeah that does change things I'm still not a fan of them but I mean yeah less light pictur of better but at least they're they're tall yeah and they're not going to get destroyed on the first weekend they're not your Dollar Tree steak lights yeah that would save some money the price I thought that was for the whole lot of them too $1,800 it's like this why you asked these question I love the question definitely need people for scale in IM that would be helpful other questions on lighting does so not so much these ones what are we not a fan of with these one or is that just chair christenson's feelings I like The Pedestrian ones I do too lights but I like those too those are on brand those are cool Y and there's a lot less of the Ballers so I'm like mhm yeah see just a few here and there to kind make it look nice I mean could we get away without them and still have enough light does the expert think I mean yeah are they well we had should have put the diagram of all of the coverage um the photometric yeah the photometric diagram would you really need them by like the splash pad cuz you wouldn't be there at night yeah that's the question is if it's really needed if true people are going to be walking on those trails at night or not I'd rather have more pedestrian lightings yeah yeah you rather kind of filter people to the South or the north of the we don't need it say scratch them I think they'd look nice in front of the building the three of them over there yeah you know just as you yeah to them what about the ones around you're like the pickle ball I replace those with a pedestrian mhm one one cuz you just need pedestrian yep and those they probably act as sort of a security barrier too is that a curb in front of the building M okay but like one more if someone were to come with a truck or something see yeah uh I'm assuming remove the one between the two playground containers on theil yeah just floating up there I think the other ones will light it up enough yeah but leave the three in front of the building or add another pedestrian scale lightting there if we want one cuz it's based about the right distance from the other ones are those stairs going to be lighted or are they not stairs where between the two playgrounds those look like stairs don't you need a light those in some yeah from the the light on top that would cover that is does that have um sorry I'm getting kind of off topic here but just like for lighting I'm thinking if you are walking not knowing truly how bright those lights are I know sometimes they're sort of dim isn't there architecturally something that you can Place lights into so it lights up a walkway like maybe just for the stairs if you're going down the stairs maybe that's not even possible but I'm just wondering like as isn't there a wall there like a landscaping wall or something oh yeah there Step could be lights in the embedded in the concrete we could cast those in yeah just do the walkway yeah Treads and red that looks kind of Ste that I mean not that it is but there's a lot of steps there if that's how many there really are what's nice is it eliminates some of the Shadows your problem is that the still nice sometimes can build up [Applause] there other thoughts about lights all right your turn oh this is out of order because I wanted to I don't not sure how it is in your packet but um we work with staff at the beginning of the project we identifi a list of programmatic spaces um I think you saw some of those layouts uh in stic design and design development we continue to work with staff to refine the size of those spaces the configuration of those spaces and how they all interplay together to try to find some operational efficiencies what you're seeing is where we're at right now um in the center of the building have a climate controlled vestibule from that vestibule you could go into the main facility or go into the small room thank you uh so from the vestule we have a direct connection to the main Gathering space which is separated into two spaces uh one small space and one large space uh for reference the occupancy now based on a code occupancy of 15 people per square feet which is somewhat subjective on how you do your layout but that's what the code would say you could have in there this is approximately 30 people and this is approximately 60 people so why it be 90 people we've done a series of layouts using round taes a classroom setting Etc a more realistic number with enough room to get around is probably between 75 and 80 um but if you did do more of a wedding type setup where you have rows of of chairs you could probably get to that Max Capacity but your code capacity would be somewhere around 90 uh the rest of the spaces are support spaces for that main Gathering and for the park amenities off the vesil you have a single occupancy gener Mutual restant room adjacent to that you have a single a Family single occupancy gender neutral restroom the only difference between those two is that uh there's a new Minnesota statute that you need to have at least one adult changing table in a a family restroom with an assembly occupancy which the main Gathering space would be an assembly occupancy so this family um single occupany uh is accessible from both the inside and the outside um to that you have a mechanical storage area and another single occupancy gender neutal restroom so your total from the inside will be three restrooms uh from the outside your total would be two using this single occupy gender neutral and this family so that those are your exterior access restrooms uh the other space is a catering kitchen which faces uh the par proper the playground Etc and that has its own isolated storage space the idea of that storage space would be to lock up anything in a rent type situation if you had a city any City owned equipment could be locked in the if you were renting it up um off the main Gathering space we have another storage space which is dedicated primarily to the fixtures furniture and equipment that would be in the main Gathering space we haven't really picked out that furniture yet so we're not sure if that's appropriately sized but we did base it on a previous project that had a stackable um cart style table and chair so we we think we're close we'll have to do some refinements similar to the mechanical storage we don't have the exact equipment yet we know we think we're close but we might have to do some refinements once the actual equipment for heating and cooling is is chosen um at in the main Gathering space we've got a large opening on both sides so that the entire space could be opened up to the outside during an event or uh specifically during the spring and summer and fall um we're working to see what type of door we would put in that wall we have three options really right now uh trying to come up with a good better best um and trying to get pricing back from that uh we hope to have that ready by the time 60% is due in a month or so we have that pricing out to vendors right now um other than that we have openings out to a covered um patio area outside uh both from the small room and the large room if the partition located right here would be closed anything else uh the kering kitchen has serving Windows both to the interior and to the exterior uh we're somewhat limited just by wall on how big the interior serving window could be the catering kitchen uh window to the exterior could be sized however you want it we have this entire length of counter to play with so those are the primary elements inside do you have any questions on the layout I have a question yeah um so I love that there's kind of like a a Breezeway between I don't know is it north and south of that main Gathering area but I'm how how big does the mechanical storage area need to be cuz like if you eliminated that space in front of like right there where that doorway is and opened that up that would be another Breezeway to go through the building and then you could still access all the the bathrooms and you wouldn't need the extra bathroom door on that family room true um but if you need to have that space for the mechanical storage I guess I understand but that would just be another I don't know another entrance to get into the main Gathering area I guess just as another Breezeway and then you could have I don't know maybe some more interesting doors um I have some comments on the outside of the building too but I'll wait till we get to that that stage so I got a question on your on the family bathroom you have there you talking you you know if you came in you'd eliminate that wall that's that's right there right now where the electric right there right yep and so you'd have the door from the outside that would get you right into that family room bathroom you wouldn't need to have that outside door there you could you could access it from that door on the left the family bathroom yeah but you kind of need the inside one also the door yeah yeah you said eliminate the door well the one that's on that's a door on the lower left yeah only at this door the concern I would have with that from other communities would be there's a a security concern there I think the idea is that the exterior doors are there for when the building is closed exactly is what I was going to say you need those two for Splash Pad time and stuff but you need that other the door there for with this is being used you've got three bathrooms yeah now it doesn't mean the storage has to be that big and you couldn't come in there the doors could still be there just leave the door there mhm yeah we are still again in the process of kind of WR right size in the mechanical room I don't think it can I don't think it's going to get any smaller just to be perfectly honest the mechanical room yeah just looking at how we're going to Stage furnaces in there there's a number of different types of spaces in there and we're going to want to Zone that appropriately I think the most efficient cost effective way to do that would be with multiple furnaces as opposed to larger more commercial piece of equipment that would have multiple zones in it so I do think they'll have quite a bit of mechanical room I'm just not sure the footprint of that yet so mhm MH um so that that would be my I guess my only comment is to try to utilize more more space for getting through the building I don't know like I'm thinking like if you had a wedding there you could enter through that side door and come down the hallway that might be another resource then for the caterer to access I'm not sure if there's a way to to then get that catering kitchen access to the hallway too versus going out to the main Gathering area right right now their primary access would be around the left side of the building how does that work with the two doors on one family restroom I feel like that would be somewhat problematic but maybe it's been done and there's no issues usually they're both on a timer or lock and the programed so that they lock and unlock at certain times okay um it still would have to be monitored though because could easily somebody could easily sabotage essentially by keeping it open um even when it locks so you'd have to usually we use door contacts it would tell you that the door is closed to ensure that it is closed andl so like when the park was open the outside door would be open the inside door would be locked correct how is that catering kit in size versus the meain Gathering area I guess when I look at it that's if we were to trade anywhere off the catering kitchen is quite a large but is that appropriate for the size for the 90 people I think without identifying exact programming for the space I think that it allows the flexibility to both prepare food there in some instances and also for a caterer to bring carts in I think if it was strictly a catering kitchen it could be shortened up I wouldn't go any narrower that's about how narrow it be but I think it could be shortened up maybe four or 5T if it was just carts hot carts okay cold C can they cook in that kitchen or is that only like microwave or just Outlets or like well it's it's kind of a chicken egg question we'd have to identify a menu which would then inform us what we would have to do for example if we kept it to prepackaged Foods we wouldn't need a thing something like a three compartment sink the second we start actually doing any prep we'd have to have a three compartment sink and and a hand washing sink and a few other finish requirements so it's really identifying what kinds of things you want to serve out of there um I think in the communities I've worked with the safest thing to do is just keep it a catering kitchen so most of that bonus is put on whoever is using it um and then when Open Flame becomes involved that's that's when we get to the highest level for the Department of Heth and we were not planning on having Open Flame um I think the VIS was not even a dishwasher it was going to be like a fridge to keep things cold the sink um and a bol Lo to plug in and a ton of plugin crackpot nation and a big enough fridge to accommodate someone having a party there cuz like I think about the places that we've been to uhuh and the fridge is like up to your knees and it's like teeny and you can't even fit anything in it fridge from the graduation will not do it no so even those little Flames that you put under a thing under catering start running gas into the building and stuff Goa yeah the stove is really the red FL gocha yeah other thoughts on the floor plan is there on the top of the main Gathering and the bottom there's an extension of the wall is there on both sides overhang yeah is there is oh is that maybe for the overhang it is for the over okay so I have a question um what what is the additional storage behind the catering kitchen is that 110 yeah so that's like let's say the city we will probably be hosting events and stuff in here that storage of things that we would use to host our events like table and chairs nope tables and chairs would be in 106 um so then 110 would be any serving dishes utensils things that we need to make an event run with food okay that I don't need to store at my desk I was going to say if the PD is doing uh the firearm safety in there and they would store their you know they used to sell candy and stuff I don't know if they do anymore but the last day they serve food right you know and if you had an event where the general public was going to be using that kitchen you'd want to lock that stuff away could you add another um cabinet along that South Wall where those two little squares are we definitely could um is that the sync as soon as we identify whether or not we need the three compartment sync um or whe whether or not we're going to have a series of rolling carts in there I I think it's still in plux on on exactly how that kitchen's going to work and it's it's all predicated on what they're going to what we're going to serve out of there so I think once we identify the menu we identify what goes in a little bit better cuz there's never enough counter space either no no it remind me is it drive up accessible to the catering kitchen I don't think we can dve that probably not right okay no well I also would highly encourage that we probably don't B on where it's located comparon to the splash pad the playround so they just bring everything through the front but to Thomas's point I think part of the things we're considering are like the two-tier carts so that you know if you do have a caterer someone could roll stuff in versus having to haul it around look at him box could you flip the kitchen to the other side so it's closer to the front door that is the front door on the bottom right bottom of the building the V yes believe we looked at an option for flipping the catering kitchen to this side and I think the problem is that um it becomes tucked away and less accessible to the B Gathering space yeah and it creates a fair bit of traffic in a in a hallway type configuration at the front door what about where the bathroom and the storage room is could flip to here but then you don't have the access you don't have access and if you're utilizing both spaces because it's only a capacity but you you have you could have access from from isn't there a front door on the bottom of that like on on the the cell side or is that a window um I'm going like over here yep right there is is that a door or a window yeah it's a large uh door opening right now and it's either an overhead door or a bold door or some type of large opening that can be opened up during an event cuz like that would be much easier to access and move things in then that tiny little vestibule area you're going yeah they can use it they could if they wanted to I'm just saying that if you move the kitchen area down closer to that it it would make it would just be easier for them to get to the kitchen it'd be right off the hallway you wouldn't have to have the door that leads into the Gathering space off the kitchen you could have it in the hallway I don't know and maybe you want a door directly off the Gathering space into the kitchen I would think you would I think you want you definitely want it to have be on an outside wall and you definitely want it immediately jent to the main Gathering space um so your two most likely areas are the area that it is or an area that kind of is occupied by the V or in these restrooms what about if you moved it vertically instead of horizontally so it would start where that little window is um on the on the North side like slipping it this way yep and then you had it come down this way y so it'd be long yeah that that might be nice it would limit your exterior serving it just flip-flop what I mentioned earlier is that you have an interior serving uh counter that somewhat Limited in space in an ex in an exterior that you just flip-flop that where would you put the storage though because you're going to be using the storage and the tables and chairs a lot more than you're going to well your storage could just move closer to the right off the back side there like on I can't see what it says there where the K where the catering kitchen starts where that se is and the kitchen you can move your your storage right there to the left of the kitchen area now pulling tables yeah that's going to be yeah you're pulling them through the other storage is smaller stuff I imagine but what you're saying is put the catering kitchen here and then I think put the storage right here yeah but then you're having to go around the entire kitchen through the hallway mhm to tables and chairs well it could go right next to the where that like right underneath the other storage so like if you have the kitchen space where the storage and that where you just had it Thomas that one big rectangle Y and you moved the smaller storage for like you know the city Storage over here yep and then you bump down your your other storage right there you could even have those two storage rooms connected if you wanted with a door and you could still be able to easily move all the tables out from that bigger storage space that you have now the blue rectangle into that area down the hallway though rather than directly into the room as someone who's previously worked in a community center and had to move tables and chairs frequently I will tell you it is going to be a huge pain if it's not connected to that room a huge pain the only downfall with having it be connected to the main Gathering space is that if you have someone in that main Gathering space and not the lower one until later it's harder to do that that requires preset up I would say you're better off having it where it is well here's my question you use the storage when you set up and when you take down you use the kitchen the entire time assuming you're using the kitchen not everyone uses the kitchen true but in a case where you're using the kitchen if someone's having like a a a party like a graduation party or maybe even a wedding Gathering to me it makes more sense to have your kitchen be more prominent in the in the space versus a storage area because you're only accessing the storage area when you pick up and take down or take out and put down and it's really not that far it's maybe how many feet 10 ft maybe 20 15t maybe if that if that storage area was right next to the kitchen and I just picture how this space is going to be used I think the kitchen's not going to be a I don't know I would think maybe half of the time that people register less of the space they're going to use the kitchen so I think our prioritize how do you enable that main Gathering space to be effective and if that's if if we think that's storage I would even sacrifice a little bit of the catering kitchen size myself that's kind of why I was asking that question but doesn't seem like we have to but I guess that's my opinion the the kitchen probably isn't the feature of this building it's that main Gathering space no but I mean if we're using it as a gathering space to have events right unless we're not using it for events if we're if we're just using it for like activities for the city that changes the scope of it I guess not just you be using storage more then you would be pulling out chairs but if if the purpose is for us to rent this to make revenue for the city to me it makes more sense to have the kitchen be easily accessible you don't need that door in the back then for the kitchen because really if he wants to drag everything to that back door to get into the kitchen you'd be going from the front of the building either through the vble or through that big opening in the front of the Gathering area I do like the option to bring things into the catering kitchen directly from the outside in case the event is already in progress yeah or the kitchen staff is cleaning up and the event continues to go on and you just want to get things out of there while the EV so I think I'd want to maintain some type of access to directly to the outside mhm um regardless of I suppose garbage and stuff could be located in that area in the back because you won't want to carry your garbage out through the the general Gathering area you'd want to exit out a back door I think so I think that this location makes a fair bit of sense um but it does because you'd want to have the single gen rest room accessible off this hallway just because it's kind of restroom alley ESS it's a good way finding it's an obvious um usability Factor so you'd want to have that here which kind of land loocks your other storage which could be ex you could lump all the mechanical storage and the storage together as one large room um you lose kitchen space that way too because you'd need double doors to get the tables and chairs out correct which takes away habited space or whatever else and I and I do think that having your furniture and your equipment Etc tucked back here is a little bit cumbersome to bring it to this hallway especially if there is some type of congestion or people coming and going within that there's no perfect layout no I I think this current makes a lot of sense I think you could move the kitchen but you're introducing other problems and fixing a few problems right no I'm just it's is going to be here forever so that's why I'm asking a question good to walk through it what are you looking to solve with moving the kitchen it just it seems like it's not it seems awkward to me how it's arranged right now with with the access yeah with with how you get things into the building whether you have carts or don't have carts I was just trying to think of a a more centralized yeah more of a straight shot more centralized locations for the kitchen for easy access I mean if you did have it vertical you could even put the bigger storage area on the other side of the kitchen and just have double doors again so you just go through the kitchen for your setup and take down for the storage then bring the tables and chairs through the kitchen well like if you had the vertical one again like the rectangle kitchen and you put the storage room on the back end of that kitchen so it's sort of behind it it's almost like a secret room you you you be able to access that room through the kitchen you can still use the space once it's set up but then when you take down it goes back in at the end of the night I certainly don't want to walk through a kitchen cuz if the catering team is trying to clear out and then you've got staff there trying to tear down you're going to make staff stay someone's someone's going to end up yep in a grid lock there yep okay I think ideally I'm I'm in I'm currently thinking about a territory right now um I think ideally one thing that might make it better is if you could access the catering kitchen from the side as opposed to going all the way behind the in order to facilitate that I think you'd have to slide this restroom down and the catering kitchen back which would only make the catering kitchen larger but what I would do is when I get a final layout for the mechanical and storage I think I will take a look at