a little bit more. >> I'll go ahead and call the meeting to order. Get started with a roll call. McKe here, Lanterman >> here, uh Varamamp >> here, >> and Nichols >> here, >> and councelor Friedrich has another commitment tonight, I believe, so she won't be here. Uh, would you like to stand and join me in the pledge of allegiance? >> I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> All righty. Agenda approval. Um, looks like we had a couple things added and modified. Uh, I got 6 O 6P 4A and then 6 C modified. >> That's correct. No other changes. >> Anything from council. >> Okay. If not, then I will entertain a motion to approve the agenda as amended. >> So move. >> Second. >> All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> Okay. And then we will go on to a presentation uh regarding the DNR grant and 20 years. >> Yeah. M. Go ahead. Bring Uh so mayor and councel uh we uh yesterday came in uh the DNR grant and uh we didn't realize that it had been 20 years that uh the city has been partnering with the Northwest Trails Association since 2006. Uh and uh so that's grant is on the consent agenda today. Uh but the grant for $42,997 a little bit less than uh some of our past years and some of the mileage looks like it's gone down a little bit as there's been adjustments but still pretty remarkable that the city of Corkran has been the hub for helping facilitate all the snowmobile trails in Henipin County for 20 years. Uh so with that a quick little history lesson. Uh Northwest Trails Association has been in existence in corporate for 52 years. Uh and so um as uh the whole uh northwest suburb has continued to change, they have changed with the times uh there was a different city that was partnering with them. And as that city developed out, Corkran became the partner that helped facilitate uh the the grant in 2006 and they're still maintaining almost 140 miles of trails. Uh important to note uh in in the last couple weeks is they were putting in a trail section just south of the Bellweather community. Uh there's been some conversations and concerns uh as far as uh the proximity of the trail and is the trail authorized and so I just wanted to touch on that for a minute. Uh this segmented trail uh has been going through there for roughly 20 years. it modified in 2019 as a result of the Bellweather development which came in in 2018. And so uh if you see on there, this uh section right here is the section that would in question uh that section is still roughly the same as it's been, but it used to for this window of time. It went north through what is now the Bellweather community up to Steak Road where it connected. In 2022 that shifted and because of development happening in Gall uh it no longer went north and it shifted to 116 uh to go up along 116 but this segment through the Oswald and Eberg properties have have been in existence for quite a few years. Uh and so uh the proposal that we worked with Northwest out of concern there is that the trail was going right here along this section is to try and reroute it through the trees. There's a couple of challenges in rerouting it through the trees. One, uh the property owner has to agree to it. Uh, and I do want to point out that the Oswald farm is a century farm that's been operating in the city for more than 100 years. Uh, and so they've had trails going across their property since the Northwest Trail Association has been operating. So 52 years going across the property. Uh so in collaboration this past weekend uh I I want to thank Steve Hoy uh with the association who worked with me uh met with Kevin Oswald the property owner and then also we got a contractor out there this weekend and uh they were were able to work out the potential of running this through uh as routed there uh through the property. It's $1,500 and uh the the association operates off the grant. They don't have any excess dollars. So, a request would be uh that the city use charitable gambling in order to cover this unforeseen expense for the association. And so, that has also been added to the agenda uh for today. And it is an authorized cost under statute. It's an approved expense code number 13. And I specifically highlighted there for snowmobiles and granted trails. And so, uh, you you'll be able to decide on that when it comes up by consent, but I I did want to just, uh, pause for a second and say thank you to the Northwest Trails Association for being great partners for 20 years. And then just once again demonstrating that as our city's changing, their flexibility and adaptability to the realities of our changing environment is much appreciated. And so, I wanted to specifically call out uh, Steve Hoy uh, who's the trail captain of this section and has been for 40 years. uh and uh also Randy Bodler who is a resident and is the treasurer. So I want to invite them both to come up to the microphone for a second and uh say something. Randy >> there is a fivem minute time limit. Sorry. >> Oh you know me well. Randy Bodler my address and everything too. >> Nope. >> I just want to thank everybody. Uh, you know, it says 20 years, but that was when the grant program changed. Before that, we've been here 53 years. Um, and in that 53 years, we've had a lot of challenges, obviously, with the growth of the city. Uh, I'm sure we're going to be seeing a lot more challenges with time to come. Um, but we've been able to overcome them. Um, the biggest reason we're willing that we're able to overcome those obstacles is our willingness to work with our city, working with our DNR, working with our police department, working closely with our land owners, working closely with our adjacent land owners, making sure they're happy. Uh, we will bend over backwards to make sure that everybody is is comfortable. I understand with this trail realignment, uh, it was really only bothering probably three homes, I think, along back there. Um, but if I were living in one of those homes, I wouldn't like it either. Um, it noise isn't as much of a problem anymore, but having lights coming through my backyard constantly at night, I would not like that. So, I I completely understand. And um being a small organization that we are, we don't have the funding to we don't have the budget for something like this. Um and it was a last minute change something and um thanks to Steve's hard work, he was able to move get something moving and get got a hold of someone that can can do the work and do the work. Right now, tree people are, you know, especially that type of work. It's uh you know, fell bunchers aren't exactly numerous in the city of Corkran. Um, but the deans, everybody knows the deans family in in the in the area really stepped forward and were were willing to help us out with this because they're they're fantastic with our members of our club. Um, we also have a few members that live in Bellweather, so they chose not to be here today for obvious reasons. They didn't want to stir any any pots. But, uh, I again to reiterate, I want to thank you guys very much for the for for helping us out. Randy, if you could come on up here quick. Actually, >> do you have something in I just wanted to give it to you on behalf of all of us and the city. It's just for your service to the community over the years. Really appreciate it. >> See, I told you it'd be worth your time to come tonight. >> Um, >> those are rare that only so many of them were made. I I want to thank uh Jay for listening, understanding the challenges that we face as a as a Snowville club here, not just Corkran, but all over. I want to thank Todd and Kevin Oswald especially because without land owners, there isn't a trail. We've got to have land owners to make this work, and they were very understanding, very cooperative in getting this through the trees. They didn't have to say yes, but they did. And I certainly do appreciate it. So, we don't take our land owners for granted. Uh, yeah, there are three up there, but in talking with Jay, we knew the houses weren't going to stop, that they were going to keep going right along that property line. They're they're working on more as we speak here. And some of them are even closer to the trail than the first three. So, we just figured let's be proactive. Let's find a way to get through this. And, uh, we also know that who knows what next year is going to bring. You know, we know both pieces of property are are being eyed and with the 610 exit on the County Road 30 now, that's going to change things out here. We'll have to keep working together and and see what's coming down the road and deal with it as it comes. But Mama G's has been a stop on the snowmobile trail since the snowmobile trail started. And it's not only a place for people to stop for a burger or a beverage. People come out with their trailers and they park there and they offload and they take off the rest. So, it's very important to have that place out here. So, I want to thank everybody on the council, Jay again, and uh you you won't hear me say this very often, but I'm hoping it doesn't snow tonight because we have a lot of work to do. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> So, so with that, uh, mayor and council, if I could have a couple other things that I wanted to talk about that are adjacent to this. So, um, Steve brought this up that that that that the community is changing. And so, I just want to proactively take this opportunity to communicate that with it changing, uh, Steve just alluded to it. The properties that are on the southern border of Bellweather, uh, we've had applications come in, uh, in the last year twice. They haven't come to fruition. We don't currently have any active applications. Uh, but there are some that are in the hopper that could potentially be active applications here really soon. And so I just wanted to make sure that anybody who's watching and anybody's who's here understands how those two properties are guided and they've been guided that way for uh 30 years. Uh and um they're guided for uh the property on the left which is kind of a light pink uh that is guided business park and uh there's there's some I'll I'll have this added to the packet so somebody wants to go it's it's small writing but but ultimately we've had the the most recent application that came in was with some smaller warehouses. Council gave some feedback that that wasn't exactly what they'd envisioned on this site. So, we there there's some things here for business park that it could mean, but what it's going to mean is not field and it's not going to be natural area. Uh, and it's going to have some activity on it. So, that's on the horizon for the Oswalt property to the right of that when you head east, that's guided mixed use, which means 50% of that is going to be commercial property with with activities, whatever that could be. And the commercial property can be everything from restaurants to to retail to a whole lot of things. between and a little bit higher density uh residential. Uh and so both of those properties uh as I said, we've had developers come in here within the last year. So I just want to in the spirit of communication make sure uh because as folks have been concerned about the proximity of this uh those are going to go right up to the property line and although there's buffers uh there's going to be activities happening in the backyard and I don't want anybody to be confused about that. Uh so that's one thing in the spirit of communication. Uh the next one is collaboration that I wanted to bring up. Uh the city has established some core strategies in terms of what we're trying to do. Uh enhance our sense of place and identity, provide amenities and recreational opportunities like snowmobiling. Here's an example tonight. Uh but also we're doing some upgrades to the parks and we've have other park development on the horizon. Maintain excellence and safety and security for the community. and ensure high quality marketdriven growth, which is what we're talking about here, and I provide high quality innovative municipal services. In the spirit of collaboration, I also want people to understand that we have five fantastic council members up here, and when someone sends an email to all five of them, they send them to one person, and that's me. Uh so, so uh I I am the person. Uh if you have a question, uh it's I I would recommend that you consider two different strategies. One, uh, find your favorite council member and and talk with them because the five of them would break the open meeting law if they talk, not at the dice. So, I'm not sure you understand that if you email all of them, they can't have an email exchange talking about the issue. That actually violates statute. They can only talk about it in here. And so, they talk to me and then I talk to you and then I talk to each of them. Uh that's that's how it needs to happen in terms of statute. Uh so um another thing is on all the emails for those that did send emails I said please feel free to give me a call uh and I'm always happy to sit down and talk with somebody. An example where I think that's worked really well is in the Bellweather community on the Hunter Ridge side. Uh we had one or two people that kind of served as the advocates for concerns regarding that. And so then I was able to talk with those folks and then they were able to get the messaging out. Uh because the truth or the communication doesn't change. Uh and if if we can build those those a avenues of collaboration on the same side on the Hunter Ridge side of things uh where that community's been there since 1992, they had concerns about what was happening with Hunter Bridge. They had one representative. And so it just helps uh in terms of communication and collaboration if you have a champion for your issue uh rather than I I had about 20 folks on this particular concern. And for my time it's very difficult for me to solve a problem when I'm trying to communicate with 20 different people on the same issue. And so uh I would just ask in terms of a collaborative spirit come and talk to me. uh and uh that that might be a a way that we can get faster answers. Uh and then the last one is I I want to invite everybody uh we have some needs in the community. Uh we're not just a growing community, but some of the things that make Corkran distinct like the Corkran Lions and the Corkran JC's uh they need people. Uh we need people on the right hand side. You see our reserves, our police reserves. We're recruiting all the time. And then with our activities, uh we will be out and about here on December 9th, uh on Tuesday the 9th for our holiday toy and food drive. I'd ask you to consider participating in that. It has a dramatic impact on our community in terms of those who are food vulnerable in trying to provide Christmas gifts for those who don't have access. And then on the far left hand side, Night to Unite is a great party uh both the neighborhood parties and the collaborative city party. And then last, next year is an election year and we need election judges. And so if you want to serve, uh consider uh stepping up and applying to be an election judge. Bottom line, uh we're better together and the community needs more people stepping up and helping serve. And uh if you've got skills, uh we've got needs. So consider coming to help us. That's all I have. Mr. Mayor, >> thank you. >> If I may >> to that Jay, thank you very much, Jay. I've been saying it a long time. We can't continue being a community without having these volunteers. Um, a lot of these volunteers are getting very, very experienced in what they do and at some point they aren't going to be able to keep doing it. New residents, all of those folks, the more volunteers we have, the less each volunteer needs to do, if that makes sense. Um, from fire, we we don't have firefighters up here. We we've got three departments that all of them volunteer based and such. We we need that immensely. So tell your friends, challenge them, see if see if they've got extra time. Be amazed how much fun you'd have. So thank you. >> All right. And with that, then we will go on to open forum for any items that are not on tonight's agenda. Uh if anyone would like to speak, now is the time and Jay can walk us through that. >> Yeah. So invite anybody uh who would like to. You can fill out a public comment card, step up to the microphone, state your name and your address for the record. Address the dis for the mayor and council. Uh it's an item that's not on the agenda. Please limit your comments to three to five minutes. And uh at this time, we won't be solving the problem, but we're happy to listen in order to consider how we can move forward. Uh Mr. Mayor, we received one comment card uh from Miss Deppill. Okay. >> Good evening. Thank you for providing this forum for us to share our concerns. After what we've already heard from the Northwest Trails Association and about the Bellweather Snowmobile Trail, I'm not sure I have to say too much more, but what I will say is thank you in advance and I'd like to share a little bit of my perspective. So, you had mentioned that you thought that there were three affected houses at the south end of Bellweather. You must not have been there in the last month because about 13 more houses have gone up that are directly adjacent to the trail. So, it's not just a few of us that are concerned. I'm actually one and two other folks here tonight sit right on that uh snowmobile trail. Um I am the person who has the direct line of sight to Mama G's at the corner of the trail. And um while our concerns are not at all about snowmobiling, snowmmoiling is an important part of Minnesota culture, our concern is the proximity of the trail to our homes. Uh for me, um the trail is approximately 60 feet from the edge of my property, about 100 ft from my bedroom window, which is where those lights would come across the field to me. Um, I have no concerns about a family toddling along the trail on a Sunday afternoon. What I do have concerns about is an impaired driver that might be coming across that open field at 50 miles an hour at 1:00 in the morning and might miss that sharp turn because it's dark and there are no lights out there and come directly into my yard or my home or my bedroom. And I don't think that um is an issue that is improbable. We know that there are limits to speed and laws against drinking, but we also know that people don't always abide by those. So, that's my primary concern. Um, my secondary concern is this. Um, I when I moved into this property, I was not told that there was a snowmobile trail basically in my backyard. Uh unlike PY who did not in disclose to me that there was a snowmobile trail, I would be legally required to disclose that if I were to try to sell my property in the future. Um I fear that regardless of the level of activity that actually occurs on the trail that we might know about that if someone saw that on a disclosure that would severely diminish the pool of potential buyers for me. uh would extend the time that it took to sell the property and would ultimately reduce the value that I would receive for the property. So that is a concern of mine as well. I moved to Corkran looking for a peaceful place to live and work. Um I paid a significant lot premium to have an open area next to my home and a and a wild area across the street. I back up to that cornfield. I have loved living there. I get to see egrets and wild turkeys and deer and other wildlife in my yard every night. I also understood that because it's an undeveloped area that potentially at some point in the future there would be development there. I didn't expect a snowmobile trail in my backyard with a speed limit of 50 miles an hour that could be used up until and 1:00 in the morning. Um, so that is my concern and I'm greatly appreciative of everyone's willingness to consider this and to make this change that would um engender a great deal of goodwill and um um neighborliness among uh bellweather and amongst the association and the city and the land owners. Um, just a separate note, I'm a CPA and I work with nonprofit organizations. I help them with things like risk management and helping to ensure that they carry the appropriate level of insurance. If I were to as an objective outside observer look at the Northwest Trails Association trail at this point, I would consider factors like we've talked about, which is their responsibility for the trail, the proximity to a relatively populated area now, um the speed limit of 50 miles an hour, the ability to use the trail until 1:00 in the morning, and the direct access to a hard. >> Those are the factors I would consider. And >> one quick second here. Taking a motion to extend. >> So moved. Couple minutes, please. >> Almost done. >> Second. Second. >> Thank you. All >> say I. >> I. >> Thank you. I would recommend to the association to mitigate that risk as much as possible. And with this plan that's in place, it takes care of that. So, thank you very much for your time and attention and for addressing our concerns the way you have. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. >> Do I need to give it to somebody? >> Give it to Jay. That'd probably be easier. >> Um, so my name is Michael Ball. I am one of the comic. >> Oh, I fell one out. Yes, >> I'll go first. >> Yeah, might as well. >> So, first of all, I want to say I appreciate the Northwest Trail for considering moving that through the woods. My >> Can you say your name and address? >> Uh, my name is Kevin Golden. I live at 1069 Malbury Lane in Bellweather. Um, I'm not as close to the trail as some of the other people here, but it's still a concern. And one of my thoughts is the trail goes along 116 anyway. We know that those areas are going to be developed in the future. Why couldn't the trail just continue to 116 to County Road 30 and then go to Mama Geese? Because it seems inevitable that that's what's going to happen over the years as those other properties get developed. If you just do it now, then that pain is gone. So >> So part of it terrain. If you look at it, there's significant terrain issues and and there's safety issues going across. So if it used to be there, it maybe could still be there. >> Hey guys guys, >> we're listening to him. He's talking to us. >> All right. So that's that was my one one of my concerns because it seems like if that area gets developed, it's not going to be able to go through the area that you're putting it through now, even through the trees. Uh, the second thing I wanted to address was um, well, I'm curious how many people on this council, including the mayor, how many of you own snowmobiles and how many of you drive on those trails? And I don't know if I get a raise of hands to to answer that question, but I am curious about that. And finally, you know, she talked about the time up till 1:00 in the morning, the speed at 50 miles an hour, but I can't understand how there could be any enforcement of that. What's going to stop people from going 70 miles an hour? What's going to stop them from going at 3:00 in the morning? Just because you have those rules, we know the people come and go as they please. So, those are my concerns. Thanks for listening. >> Thank you. to reach out to them separately. So it's just just an item on the agenda. a motion. >> Um, it's an agenda item. >> Item six. >> Okay. So, typically it's for items not on the agenda is what open forum is for. >> Okay. >> Um, did you have a question? >> Well, yeah. I'm just requesting it be removed off the consent agenda to be discussed. >> Okay. We can consider that when we get to consent. >> Okay. Thank you. Anyone else? With that, we'll move on to >> Mr. Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor, if I may please first again folks, the the the snowmobile and stuff is part of Corkran. Okay. These gentlemen have done a great job rerouting, doing all this stuff. It can't be immediate. We have more people probably speeding through and driving through our community than any snowmoiler ever will. Okay, it yes, it's can be dangerous, but anything can be dangerous in our community. I will support our our snowmobile folks. They are doing a lot of things to police a lot of these things. They had a complaint. They've jumped through hoops to take this talk with land owners as they've said in their presentation to reroute and make it better. But we're gonna I'm as a council member is going to continue these kind of activities through our city as long as possible. Okay. Um I don't want to do anything to personally attack, but bell weather wasn't bell weather. We had neighbors. We had the folks at Hunter's Ridge, the people up along Ste Grove did not want Bellather in because they live next to a farm. The farmer, the land owners have rights and us as a city is to grow this city in a responsible way and respectful way. So, I want to welcome the Bellweather folks. Thank you very much for purchasing these properties. Your neighbors might not have been too nice back in the day, however long ago Bellweather started and Amberly and those kind of things, but these men and women are working really, really hard to enjoy. Ditch riding is the worst thing a snowmoer can do. Okay? It is wrong. The the again the traffic along County Road 30, those kind of things, that's not why you buy a snowmobile. Okay, you buy a snowmobile to legally use trails, those kind of things. The 5% that break the laws and such, that's a whole another conversation and somebody will get them. Okay? But I want folks to understand the person that talked about it being 60 yards away, huge concern. These guys and gumped all over it to be able to go through the trees, that wooded area as a step to get away from. I I think it's admirable that they worked that hard to do that. So, and again, I think J did um Oh my god, what's your name? Jake summed it up very properly. These two areas are going to change. I know I spend a lot of time with neighbors in Bellweather. We don't want it to change. I've always said then buy it. We'll find a farmer to farm it. Okay. I don't think there's anybody in Bellweather that can afford the property to keep it open space. Deers, turkeys, all of the things that were talked about, they probably weren't there when the bell weather wasn't there because nobody saw them. So, you've got a great place. It's a great place to live in Bell. Corkran is a great place because our diversity and everything we do and for volunteers like this that do this. Um, we're lucky to have all of the options to spend outside. So, that's me on my soap box. Thank you. I know you guys want to say something. I don't think you need to, but it's up to you. >> Mr. Mayor, if I could just make one comment about the development. Uh, so one of the challenges that Corkran has uh for our taxpayers, and we're going to be talking about the budget this evening, is we need to diversify our tax base. uh we're primarily residential and as a result that means residents are carrying the bulk. By diversifying our tax base that means we bring in commercial properties, we bring in industrial properties. Uh and we're having a challenge doing that. These two properties are going to help diversify the tax base bringing in other tax revenues beyond residential. So, this is really critical to the future and if I were a homeowner in Corkran, I'd be really excited about when that's going to happen because it's going to help my personal property tax bill. >> Very much. Sure. >> Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. >> Uh, Mr. Mayor, we had one last comment card. Um, Mr. Matthew, is it Clemens? >> Chimeto. >> Chime. >> Close. My handwriting. >> Name and address for the record, please. >> Yeah. Matthew Chimeto. My address is 6600 carries away in Corkran. So I'm a year resident. Um living in Corkin about 11 years. Um and just comment. So I'm I'm the current president of the Northwest Trail Sol Association. So again, I very much appreciate um this opportunity and everybody who's come in to speak on behalf of the trails and bring this conversation up. So, um, I'll just say to to address some of the comments and things, you know, about snowmmoiling, I guess, you know, I think I represent, I think, what is kind of the future of snowmmoiling in Minnesota. I'm probably on the lower end of the age range of people who are getting actively involved in snowmmoiling or in the snow community and trying to keep these traditions going forward. Um, I was previously a resident actually Grove and one of the reasons I chose to move to court was because of the access to the snow trails. Many of the residents of the neighborhood actually are snowmoilers and similarly were residents or wanting to be residents of that neighborhood because of access to the snow trails. So um just to address some of the things of again expanding tax base and what stone building does for business. So I have one of our maps here. Um, one of the requirements of the snow bill association every year is every three years DNR requires us to produce a map um that is representing all our trails so everybody knows where the trails actually are, where they run, so people are not trespassing. Um, and one of the other big parts of the map actually is that we to fund the development of this map, we actually do map ads. So the back of it throughout this, you'll see different advertisements for all the Many of those businesses, most of the businesses obviously incorporate in this metro area, right? So when we talk about business development and what the snow trails actually mean for um businesses in the area, this is a huge part of, you know, winter recreation, right? And again, making Corkran a friendly place to be for families, young families want to be outdoors in the community. >> Um and then just to address the comments again and things like that. Um you know we are again work very closely with the police departments, the sheriff departments. Um we do our training um working with those communities or with those departments. Um and they are actively patrolling network. So you ask how do they how they manage speeding the same way they manage speeding um on the streets. There will be people out there and they will absolutely be out there on weekend evenings um looking for speeders leaving the bars at night. So this is something that we is addressed. It's not it's not a complete wild west. Um these these trail networks are fairly well controlled. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All righty. And with that, >> no other comments. >> All righty. We will move on to consent agenda which consists of items 6A through 6P. Does anyone want to pull anything? >> I would like to pull 6 C. >> 6 C. >> And per request, I will pull 6. You guys >> and sorry, what was the second? >> Per request, I'll pull 6F. >> 6F. Okay. Anyone else? All right. Then I will entertain a motion to approve consent agenda items 6 A, 6B, 6 D and E, and G through P. >> So move. >> Second. >> All right. All those in favor say I. >> All right. I >> Okay, Jeremy. Uh, let's give him one second actually here to file up. Might be hard to pick up. I'm sitting in a hole. >> Thanks. >> Hit that lever. Thank you. I was going to ask you to hit that lever. Now, if I can sit back down. >> Hit that lever. >> Life is good. I'm on a high chair. >> If you had a give up, let's go. >> All righty. Uh 6C. Jeremy. So my question um I'm looking at page 37 on the fee schedule and there's a note for water connection fee per acre. All other churches which not house weekday school, preschool, andor daycare activities for connection fees. The use of the word other makes me think there's supposed to be another row for churches that do have those, but I don't see one of those listed. I'm wondering if that's a typo or a missing row. >> So, I'm trying trying to align because the packet's a little bit different. So, on the fee schedule, what's adjacent to water connection fees for? >> It's under the Maple Grove connection fee section. >> Okay. >> Fourth row down >> and or daycare and or daycare activities. Where do you see? >> So, it says all other churches. >> I'm focusing on the word other. Okay. >> Is there supposed to be another church row that we don't have >> or are we supposed to take out the word other and just churches which don't have weekday school? I'll have to get back to you on that specific question. That's fair. >> But it can always be amended at really any point if we decide that it needs to be. And and for council's awareness, we we are going to have uh at at least in the first quarter an update because we're doing some research related to the utility rate schedule and uh so there we're anticipating an update in the first quarter related to that. We're just not ready with that work yet. Um so okay so I will hit that. It's on page 11 for us. I will follow up with you on that. Thank you. >> Anything else on that? >> That was the only one I had to discuss. >> If I if I could make a recommendation that based on what we see, let's strike other for right now so that we can go forward and if it needs another amendment, we'll bring it forward with change. But that makes all churches makes the most sense to me. >> I'll make a motion to make that modification and approve. >> I'll second it. Uh all those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> And F. Jeremy. I think somebody wanted to have comment on this one, so I wanted to give them the opportunity before we make our decision. >> So, Mr. Michael Ball, uh, item 6F, please state your name and address for the record. >> Yes. So, my name is Michael Ball. Um, my address is the primary address or the address in question. >> Your your address, your mailing address. >> Okay. My primary address is 479 Fbrook Lane, Maple Grove, Minnesota 5311. Um, so I kind of have a five page sheet that I have here to read. It's a lot to digest. >> Five minutes >> exactly. Um, so I know I sent it over to Jay um to send over to the city. >> I believe we all got it. >> I hope you were able to read it. So you were able to read that. you know, save us all the time going through that. Um, but really, you know, again, we're just Mike and Judy. We want to build her retirement home. We want to sell two lots, one of which will go to my brother so wife and kids can build a lot and then build a lot. Um, building a city street exceeds the property value and just not economically feasible for us to do so. Um our thought is you know building the private drive pass that cost on to the homeowners and then the benefits of the economic benefits for the city collecting the property taxes. Um you know I did some research and really let's say theoretically we won't we can't um build a public street. Well that public street benefiting those three homes of which the city would have to shoulder the cost for unforeseen amount of time. They would have to patch it, receal it, plow it eventually and then replace it. Um the develop the parcels immediate to the west had zero development rates and that was just purchased by a farmer last year and that farmer bought that lot with zero development rates knowing that you know his intentions are a farm. So and there's no data in the comprehensive plan supporting development in this area of the city. So we you feel the report is based off hypothetical possibilities rather than concrete data that's available to make a decision. Um so I mean we feel like we brought you know a pretty good case. Again we don't know where we would go from here if we can't get this done. Um, so pray that we find you guys find it in your hearts to work with us and hopefully approve it. Regards to the city amendment, I mean really something that they're told us that we had to submit. Um, but in essence we just thank you for your consideration. >> Thank you. Did we want to >> any questions for staff? >> I thought about this one a bit and I wanted to bounce some ideas off of staff. I think we talked about this a couple months back and what I remember from that conversation is I think I had made a suggestion if they had one home with an ADU, so effectively two living units. Would that require a driveway or a street? I I think I remember the answer was that would allow them to have a driveway and not a road. Is that correct? Councelor Nicole. So, we take a look at the the previous approval said no more driveways onto Oakdale Drive. I believe that was contemplating more than a single home. I think when staff looked at it that I do believe that it would be acceptable for what you're talking about, but we would still want the right of way dedicated. Now, um but if it was just a single home, then yes, that was something that we had agreed on when we looked at it. That driveway in that instance would make sense. Um, but as soon as we're talking about multiple lots, uh, that's really where the road improvements start to get triggered. >> So, if it stays as one lot, they could have a main home and an ADU would not have to be part of that same home. I think we've seen other ADUs where it's been a detached ADU. >> Correct. But I will say that is not the proposal in front of us tonight. So, that would be a new application. >> Yeah, this is something that maybe they could pursue if they want to get >> correct >> two people living on that property. >> Correct. in our ADUs and our rural residential I believe that we allow for up to,200 or 1100 square feet with this cup. >> Yeah. So um through the administrative permit process uh ADUs are allowed to have a footprint of 960 ft and then through the conditional use permit process that can be exceeded up to,200 square feet of living space. That doesn't include the garage space. That's just the living space. >> And we don't allow duplexes in all residential. Correct. >> Correct. We do not allow duplexes. the ADU is the the flexibility provided there. >> Thank you, >> Mr. Mayor. >> Yeah, >> when we talked about this back in February, am I right there, Natalie? >> Uh, >> and the the thoughts and the concept came to us, I thought we were quite clear that we would not accept more shared driveways, those kind of things. I thought we were pretty clear about that >> and recommended that that if they were to move forward. Yeah, there was some kind of like there was I think some discussion if a creative solution could be found but in working with the city attorney the the solution found really is has been proposed I believe other times with other developments and we've always have said we've said no that so it's not really we haven't found another workaround that really funds the implementation of the road >> and we've done this we have said no to everyone there's been nothing that has been a shared driveway in any of these areas out there out by me on the western side of the twin western side of Corkran. >> Not when we've deemed it not when we've deemed that a road network connection is needed in that area. We only allow private drives specifically when it's determined that there is no need for a road connection. The road network has been planned in this area since about the 1990s. I wanted to take a minute to thank you very much for trying to jump through all the hoops and the options, listening to Jeremy and his suggestion about doing whatever and stuff. So, um, appreciate the job that the planning department has done. Thank you very much. >> Thanks, Mr. Mayor. >> Anything else? Staff, anything else? I mean the only other thing we can't do everything everywhere. There's limitations that are created by where the city needs to develop in the future. There are other options you could consider if you're willing to take on a much bigger project. When you look at the development rights around this property, if you work with your neighbors, maybe you can develop some kind of a strategy where you can do more lots by spreading across a bigger area. There's seven on the property to the east. There's eight on the property to the northwest. If you could put together a larger group of people trying to build something out, you could probably have more success. If you do it as a OSMP, you get up to double the development rights as well. So, if you really need to make this happen for three people and not two, that would be what I would do in your shoes. See if you can find some partners. That's the best that I can offer. >> Mr. Mayor, in the planning department, we are Approving the preliminary plat and subdivision ordinance amendment would >> be approving the preliminary plat and then approving the resolution denying right. >> That's the recommendate. That's the recommended >> and again the preliminary plat means there needs to be a public street. >> That's correct. >> Thank you. >> On that note, does someone want to make a motion? I'd make a motion um as written in the uh >> staff report. >> Staff report. Thank you. >> Okay, >> I'll second. >> Motion, a second. Any further discussion? >> All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. Thank you. >> And with that, we have no planning items. here and then we will go on to unfinished business. So, uh, mayor and council, uh, we are here tonight seeking guidance, uh, on the, uh, on the budget for 2026 in preparation for our truth and taxation meeting. Uh, we've had prior to this evening four other meetings. Uh the first in August we got the draft budget. Uh then we had to set the preliminary levy in September. In October we saw community developments detailed inline budgets and uh public safety's detailed budgets. And then earlier this month we covered uh the administration public works and water and sewer. And so, uh, what's come up in my discussions with residents, uh, is is a an important distinction that I I I've been talking with folks about, um, and that is the levy amount. There's been a lot of concern about the levy amount being 30.11%. And I I have made the distinction, uh, of the levy versus the tax rate. Uh and why that's important is right here. Uh the property tax change and how it's going to impact our residents. Uh 91% of our residents are going to see less than a 15% change in their property or 15 15% increase in their property taxes. And it varies what the city's portion of that is. As I've talked with folks, uh, it's been as low as single digits and it's been averaging in the between 12 and 15% as I've talked to different residents. Now, there are uh, a handful of residents, 3% uh, 3.6% of our residents will have a 20% increase or higher, which equates to about 75 homes in the city. Can you clarify as you're talking about this, Jay? Is this the overall tax bill or the Corkran specific levy amount? >> It's the overall tax bill because how it plays how the Corkran bill plays out changes because we have five different school districts and there's other taxing districts for different residents. And so the portion that the city is of their tax bill will change as those other taxing districts change. So I can't say what the portion is. Uh, so I'm I'm speaking specifically when I've talked with residents and talked them through uh their proposed levy and taxes statement. That's been what I've learned is they've said here's what the overall is. So the overall rate 91% will be less than 15% overall. And then the city's portion has varied. Uh um so uh one of the the things that I I did learn I met with our uh county assessor last Thursday to talk about uh the 27 appraisals that are coming up. Important to note, part of the reason we've had a lot of property tax uh changes is because people's appraised values change this year because we actually hadn't had somebody out in Corkran appraising houses for a long time. And so there's a lot of residents that hadn't had their properties appraised in over five years. They hadn't had somebody there. So on average, residents property values increased 5.8 % across the board. Uh, and so that's across all of corporate. Uh, that's significant. Something else that I learned, >> if if I could just comment on that, just because someone's property increases in value doesn't put money in their in their bank accounts. >> I I agree with that. Uh something else that's problematic uh that hit a lot of those higher increased is uh then the market value exclusion that people have grown accustomed to uh the legislature changed the laws and consequently that's impacted how people have some people have seen their exclusion. So on average uh right now the Corkran home uh the average market value home is 542,000 and at that level uh they no longer have a market value exclusion. >> Yeah. It's almost worthless in Minnesota. >> Uh so so previously uh the market the medium uh estimated market value was 512,000 and they had about $461 market value exclusion. Something else that is important to note that that I just recently learned, uh, Corkran has one of the highest increases for the regional rail authority and the county housing and redevelopment authority. Uh, and um, I haven't gotten a great answer on why uh, because of the activity in ours, but you'll see here on this, it went up 11.8% for Corkran residents from the county. Uh, for uh, average for the county was only 7.2. 2% >> and and it's really odd. 11.8% across the county. We we don't have any influence over that and I'm waiting for a answer back from the county assessor on what the ham sandwich is that. >> And we get we don't have railroad tracks in court. >> Thank God. Thank God. >> No. >> Yeah. Be careful. They might give you one. >> I've learned one thing from other mayors nearby. that they and and and Huh isn't isn't actively involved in corking. Um so for the county so that those those are important things to note. Uh here uh ne next thing uh a couple of growth impacts that have impacted the city. On the bottom the blue portion um is what's happened in terms of estimated population growth that's happened over the last five years. uh and this is an estimate. Uh in 2020 we had a a census and so off that census what I've done is I've taken uh the data from our utilities and the number of uh um help water >> meters >> water meters installed uh and then I I multiply that water meter installation by 2.5 as an average. Uh so that's the logic behind how we got here. But but you see significant increase over time and then on the top of that is the rate of inflation. So those those are variables of growth that are impacting uh how we're able to deliver services. And then this last one just uh a big snapshot. Lots of numbers here. So the green portion is our increased uh tax capacity in the city of Corkran. It's increased 116% in the last five years. uh which is one of the largest in the metro >> largest county >> I yes uh behind Dayton Dayton is a little bit ahead of us but they've had other >> other developments impacting that in terms of commercial industrial >> uh and then you see in the pink that's uh what has been adopted as the tax levy except for 2026 that's the preliminary levy and then in the blue uh that's the remaining tax capacity uh The reason that's important is how we get the tax rate is you take what our adopted levy is and you divide that by the tax capacity and that's that's what our tax rate becomes. And so you see uh we've maintained a relatively flat rate um over time. Uh the budget that has come before you is what staff needs in order to deliver the services that council has asked them to deliver. Uh in the past with the flat rate I will say when I arrived here we did not have the resources that we need and in many areas of our city operations we were outright failing. Uh and as a consequence of that at your direction we have added staff added uh technology in order to solve it. Those implementing those solutions have have cost us money and I'm very proud of where staff is at now in terms of delivering services. So as we move towards discussing uh the the direction that council wants to provide council or wants to provide staff for in preparation for the truth and taxation. I would ask that you let us know uh what you'd like us to stop doing. Uh because the things that we are doing are things that we believe that council has asked us to do. Uh I don't believe that we're doing anything right now. And if we are uh please point it out so that we can stop. Um that 11,917,361 uh with a few exceptions which I've t I believe I've talked with all of you about uh that's what it costs to deliver the services at the level that we've been asked to deliver them. So with that I will open it up. I have in the packet we have all of the information that you've received at the previous four briefings to include the preliminary draft uh budget uh and then all of the itemized details for each of the departments if you'd like to direct us to dig in in a particular area. >> I have one top of mind >> unless somebody else wants to do it first. >> Go for it. >> Uh packet page 209 itemized community development department budget. the professional services row under construction services. We're going from 450,000 to 600,000. I think this is um intended to fluctuate with number of permits and inspections that we have to do, but we are not forecasting an increase in permit revenue. So, I would suggest that we drop the increase in professional services and just allow the two to scale with each other to avoid having to collect $150,000 in the levy. >> So, Can you give me the line number again? Construction services >> 50300. >> That's the right page. >> So, uh there may be additional professional services that are in there. So, I I will check in with Natalie. Uh >> so, so if we balanced it out with the revenues straight away. >> Well, I mean that's what we've been spending for the last two years based on the revenue bringing in. So, I I we're in the red been in the red for the last two years. I believe it's being offset by the revenue, but I I I guess that would be my concern is I think that is the revenue that we're bringing in that is costing us if not a little bit. >> Okay. >> So then is the fee at the right level? Should we be increasing on the revenue side? >> We have a fee at the right level. It has been studied. We can certainly do a fee study next year, but um based on the most recent that was done was pretty excessive. Um, and we want to make sure that we're careful with how we set. So it's not that we're operating at a deficit, but we are >> Does that help answer your question on it? >> To some degree, yeah, I mean, it's important that development is paying for the services that it requires us to provide. So I just want to make sure that we're balancing that appropriately. >> For sure. And so if I understand your guidance clearly, you want us to go back and take a look to make sure that this particular expense item has the offsetting revenue coming from permits. >> Yes. >> And uh if necessary. Yes. >> And what I heard Natalie say is right now she believes that it's balanced, but we'll take a look at that. >> Okay. >> Any other items? And just a summary comment, while my taxes went up substantially, and I'm not going to complain about it and such, um, what makes it so that when we get our information, the city portion is up 30 some percent and stuff. What can be done to make that communication different than this is the maximum and we're doing what we're doing? That's question number one. Don't need an answer. Just somebody work on that baby for me, would you? Um I've been saying that it's going to catch us in 2026 if we keep saying no to any any new taxes and such. So we've done that for how many years? Three or four years in a row of >> no increased taxes. It's been longer than that. >> Flat rate almost 10 years. >> So >> relatively >> I've been saying it. We're living it now, folks. And it's it's hard to chew on and such, but if we don't do something, it's going to get worse. Um Jay, you summarized this evening to everybody about the commercial all the things that is something that is going to help flatten I hope our taxes if we get this stuff in but we aren't going to see the results for two years if everything were to happen today. Correct. >> Two years from the time that they go active. >> Right. >> Correct. Has anybody ever been given the answer? I've asked that question a couple times on why does it take two years for us to start seeing the benefits of when things go active. Um, I've asked it. I've asked uh um Representative Robbins. I asked Leur, and nobody has ever gotten back to me on why it takes two years to for the city to start benefiting, and why can't we get back taxes for the county having that money for two years? You know what I'm saying? And I know that the timing and everything, it takes at least a year to get in all of that stuff, but there needs to be a faster response time, especially for growing communities and such is what I feel. >> Well, to follow up with that, that's what I've gotten us in terms of the timeline of the process when I met with Mr. Huband uh last Thursday. >> Yeah. >> And uh he's going to come back to us in the spring and so we're going to have him on the agenda. So, you'll be able to ask the county assessor that question in person. uh when when he comes to visit and maybe he can articulate that better than I've understood it. >> Appreciate it. >> But that that timing is really the answer that I've gotten each time that I've asked it from the time that it builds to how it gets through this system until it's actually active and you're paying taxes on it. >> Thank you. Um another question and Kevin, not to put you on the spot or anything, but we keep talking about gravel costs for all of our gravel roads, those kind of things. We know we have 30 Five, seven, nine, 11 miles of gravel. How many miles of tar do we have? >> I couldn't get that. It's growing. So I Jay's talked to me about getting a solid number. So we use the same number. But I would say when I got here it was 35. >> Okay. >> Probably mid40s right now if I had to guess. But we'll put together numbers. >> So my only my only thing is is I'd like to not differentiate gravel roads, tired roads. We have roads in Corkran. They all need maintenance. I' I'd rather not go down that road. And the public works folks. I don't mind the gravel road being a gravel road. I get disappointed when they come and take the washboard out because whether or not it happens, it's a it should slow people down. It doesn't on my road. And there's only two of us that live on my road. If I can call it my road, I'll call it a betold road. I I I truly appreciate the effort that public works put forth and such. But I think John Bottom said this at one point that maintenance those kind of things is shared by all. Not people that live on gravel roads play gravel road fees. People that live on roads play a different fee for roads. It's a combined deal. That's that's what I'm wanting to say. Do I want us to spend less upkeep, less money on gravel roads? Um, I'm not going to dive into it that deep. Okay. I I just won't. I just That's just a couple of things I'd like to do is try and keep it. This is our budget for road maintenance to dissect it down to gravel and tar, those kind of things. Um, I don't want to do that. It's the same thing. I We've got parks here. I don't want to I don't want to dissect that our new city park is getting all our money where Wildflower or Bellweather or other parks aren't getting the right amount. It's our parks. They're all the same in my mind. That's the way I want to treat them. So, I I don't know if we can do that in a quick change or anything like that. This is our city. these are our these are our costs and to break it out in the neighborhoods those kind of things we are folks that are supposed to be up here at large um we don't have wards we don't have anything else we should be thinking of the entire city not just our own little neighborhoods so um that's all I have to say it would be nice if uh if there were cutbacks without without us slashing and and saying take this away take this away and stuff but we got to do business And I I feel we need to keep doing it at the level that it has grown to over the last couple of years. Um it was uh substantially below par two years ago and prior. So thank you very much. >> I know one of the things we were trying to clean up is the 2016 A bonds not having appropriate allocation. When are those expiring? When do they get paid off? Uh I'm going to have to get back to you on that exact number. Um but a a a quick uh visit of how we ended up there. So prior to the issuance of the 2016 A bonds, council made the decision to not go forward with special assessments. Uh and as a result that didn't when when they were looking at how to fund the future of the bond, that's how it was going to be funded was a almost half of it was going to be funded with special assessments. And then when council made the decision not to, that didn't get communicated as the bonds went forward. And so the bond documents had those assessments forecasted in terms of the long range bond payments. And uh so the city for quite a few years now has been carrying on our financial statements this deficit for because we didn't have that revenue stream that was supposed to come forward with special assessments. Um when we had the my first audit the 2022 audit when I started uh I talked about that because I'd never seen that before and uh our auditors were like yeah that's okay. I hadn't I didn't have enough experience in that to to be super concerned about it. So then as we came through for the 2023 audit, no issues. Uh we switched auditors for the 2024 audit and then they made an issue of it. They were like why is this the way that it is? And so then staff had to do a lot of digging in order to find out why it was that way. And that's when we discovered that the special assessments had not occurred the way that the bond documents reflected that they would creating that revenue stream. And uh that puts us in a bit of a pickle as a city uh because we are no longer complying uh with what we're telling the documents that we're saying since we haven't paid up the way that we said that we would. >> Wait, wait, wait. payments on the bonds that we were supposed to. >> So the debt service on the bonds >> that is being paid correctly. >> So it's being paid correctly but but carrying carrying the deficit isn't the way that we were funding it. That that's where it could come into question. >> Okay. And so uh we sought a wise counsel uh uh with different financial experts on is it okay for us to continue this and unanimously they all said that it's in our best interest to to bring it up to par so that you're no longer carrying that deficit. So that's a significant expense uh for for 2026. I acknowledge that. >> Will that be an annual expense going forward or is that a one time? >> Uh I have to pull up the long-term financial plan. Uh, so it should be a one-time expense to bring this flush and then the and then it continues to go forward and we should pay that off pretty soon. But I I'll have to loop back on. >> Is there another way to discharge the debit besides increasing the levy in one year? >> Uh, like are there reserves we could allocate to that instead to avoid having to levy for it or maybe there's another mechanism. So I I can explore that when we we had discussed that one one of the challenges is uh we do have a reserve that we want to maintain uh and and uh if I recall correctly I think that this would bring us below statutory requirement for that reserve of 42%. Okay. >> Uh but I will I will revisit that with Tammy Amdul who's our Northland's long-term financial planner. I remember we talked about it but I don't remember all the details of it and it was concluded that this was the of all the options. Carrying it forward was not uh a wise option for us financially. Uh carrying that debt forward on our financial statements. Resolving it was the best option, but I'll revisit with her tomorrow to see if there are alternatives. I don't recall that there were >> I want to push again on the revenue side too. I think when we looked at the for it was the water or the sewer fund, we were only budgeting like $25,000 in interest income. uh we should be getting a couple hundredk I would imagine if we can just put it into a mutual fund sorry a money market fund. Um any adjustments we can make in that direction I think should be explored fully before we commit to this large of an increase in the levy. So, so we have uh recently since there's some tools that we can have to that have a high liquidity if we have any unforeseen costs uh we've moved more money around than we have in the past in order to try and maximize our interest earnings. Uh so we've got them in a couple different uh you know we're low risk >> that's really critical with public funds but potentially a higher yield. So, uh, I may be able to adjust our interest forecast based on the I would almost say more aggressive strategy that we've we've been using. I would say more prudent strategy. >> Anything else there? uh on highway, streets, and roadways, page 255, row 50321 for telephone. We're seeing a 20% increase to 15,000. I'm kind of curious what we are getting for $15,000 a year in the realm of telephones. >> What's that number again? Sorry, >> 50321. So the telephones are our staff have cell phones uh and um I believe that's what it is whatever the ops team has now. You have any other insights there? >> No. Yeah, that's that's the caring cost of cell phones in the fac there's some phones out at the facilities and the park but they're negligible but this is really cell phones. >> Okay. Is that covering a different use than the radios? >> Yeah, radios are in vehicles and in some case handhelds for different events, but primarily vehicles. >> Thank you. Feel like there's a wheel turning. Are you looking for something, Jeremy, or >> I'm just going through the rest of my notes. >> Gotcha. Gotcha. I will just mention um stuff we've kind of already discussed as we went through the department budgets, but um as we bring it back on the 11th, I'd like to see maybe the option of I'm glad I'm glad we went through the discussion and exercise of uh the fire deputy position um and leaning potentially towards the contract route. I think that is probably the best route to start that position. Um, timing wise, I'd like to consider if we do it 2027 instead of 2026. Um, so if we could see maybe both options bring it back on the 11th. Um, and then Jay, you and I had a brief discussion uh about another PD related uh funding mechanism. I don't know if you wanted to get into that or maybe want to bring that back on the 11th. So, so, uh, yeah, I I think now's a good time to discuss it. So, one of the things that, uh, came up was we did, uh, great work from Darren Bolson and he earned the IC POTE grant that will allow us to get our cadet program started. Um, one of the challenges, uh, in policing as a whole is finding the right candidate. Uh and so um one potential savings and I talked to Chief Gotchalk about this is uh we've got the funding from the ICPO grant to cover the education component of it but the staffing component of it as a police position was going to be borne by the levy and since we're uncertain of when we find the right candidate if we find the right candidate and this is a new strategy for us in order to try and fill critical needs because we've had a vacancy as we've gone through. I think we've interviewed 30 people for one vacancy that we've had for a while because we want to find the right fit. A potentially prudent alternative was to use long-term planning dollars to cover the cadet because this is really a strategic planning >> move long term. Uh I mean if we're trying to find a cadet, this is someone who hasn't been working towards uh their schooling yet. We're trying to help facilitate that. There's a commitment on the back side of it and then we could convert that to an operations budget item in the future. We have about $1.9 million right now in our long-term financial planning budget or long-term planning budget. And so >> combined basically that 50 $50,000 grant. So the 55,000 would cover their education pieces and some of the other variables. >> Uh and then it's unlikely that it would be that high. This would be if we found somebody January 1st and then they had all of these other variables. You know, more likely that our cadetses going to be single and not on the family plan in terms of benefits, those sorts of types of things that that change the cost. So worst case scenario would be 138,000. Probably more likely to be considerably less than that. Uh we could move that expense to long-term financial or long-term planning rather than having that in the operations budget as a consideration. >> Yeah, I'd like to see that when we bring it back on the 11th as an option because I believe if if we look at just those two items alone that I mentioned potentially savings for 2026 of north of $300,000 total, I believe. Yeah, it brings us to almost $370,000 uh savings, which moves the needle about 4%. >> That's what I'd like to see. Consideration on the 11th. >> Good ideas. >> What what I really like about that one is it protects this critical position. I mean, this new strategy is really important for us to build bench. A lot of work has gone in. I mean, we're one of only eight communities that that have uh the benefit of the IC POET grant and so I won't want anything to threaten that uh so that they're confused about our commitment to it. >> Right. No, I think it's a great idea. >> One other thing to think about kind of along that same line where you don't always get the talent when you expect or you might suffer attrition. um where I am they will have some negative carrying cost on employees to account for people who resign or where people are delayed and hire um and you can't backfill them immediately. So you might carry one headcount across the whole organization or one and a half to account for we're just going to have somebody who's not here when we need them and we don't want to tax to pay for people who aren't actually delivering the service at that time. there's some risk that you end up everybody's here the whole year and maybe you have to dip into a reserve to cover that but it prevents overt taxation to pay for people who aren't actually on the job yet >> and and that's exactly why we were proposing it because uh you know we were able to use that carrying cost in order to add the lieutenant position this year as we were having challenges recruiting and filling the open retired police officer position that work that's been a high payoff for us from what I've heard from the department uh and and provided some much needed capacity in terms of freeing up our sergeants to focus on sergeant duties and less administrative stuff and then we've already seen the benefit of that additional capacity with the ICO grant and some other advances that but for that addition we went we would have had the capacity to pursue those things. >> Does it make sense to look at that same notion outside of just public safety? So we don't have any vacancies. Uh >> yeah, you do. >> Say again. >> We had a resation today, right? Well, uh, so so with with that one, um, the the IT component of things, >> uh, the CIT contract, what has changed is the person that we've relied on for a considerable amount of time, uh, has differing responsibilities than what he was delivering before we had an IT position filled on staff and was doing exactly why we added an IT position. were able to transition those responsibilities. >> As a consequence of that, he doesn't have the capacity to come back and backfill all those responsibilities. >> And so Nicia was doing great uh today trying to work with CIT to figure out how we're going to get those needs met. >> Um >> yeah, >> but but I us just relying on the contract, we're going to pay a premium for the contract and that's why it was on the agenda to try and backfill. see with Mark trying to have uh vacancies on like we need the action figure to do the work and so uh we we aren't trying to carry any >> we're not trying to build buffer our budget >> by carrying a position that and leaving it open >> and we do sometimes incur overtime costs or other costs to try and cover the gap left by the vacancies. So when we can we you know we look at opportunities to hire but we do incur additional expenses whether that's overtime or other just cost we end up shifting or reallocating that to other areas. So that's a good point. >> Okay. >> And realistically it's likely I mean I'm not super familiar with the IT market but I don't think it would be as hard to find someone with that skill set interested in that job then perhaps it is hiring a officer right now just practically. So that's more likely to see longer vacancies there. >> Okay. Anything else? >> Okay. So that work for direction. >> So So as as uh to set the stage for staff expectations for the truth and taxation, I just want to make sure I understand what you're wanting us to deliver on that day because that's the day we have to certify the levy. Um, and so want to make sure that we're prepared uh to to try and address any any concerns. Um, I just have two things that I want to say and I want to be clear. Just because a resident's property value increases doesn't give up the doesn't give us the right to grab their equity. That's not right. And justifying a 30% increase by annual property values are right. That should be irrelevant. The second piece, 14.9% and we're supposed to be, you know, that that that's like the good news. How many of us here have received a 14.9% raise? I haven't. It's 14.9. That's that I I I just don't understand why our surrounding communities are where they are and we're at 30. So, I would I I I would urge you to find places to to cut. >> Well, one of the reasons I'd say that those communities are able to be more balanced is because they haven't maintained a flat rate for the last 10 years. And so we have uh not had the staffing or the equipment necessary to deliver the services that we've been asked to deliver for a significant amount of time. >> When when I arrived, >> how many years were they staff? >> Uh well, Ben been lean staff. I I haven't been here for 10 years, but Matt can speak to that. >> I think nine out of the 10 years was a flat or reduced rate of levy. Now that it's different from the community growth less, we've had about, you know, % growth in population. So there's moving pieces, but I would say I think I believe it is and we can go through the previous budget presentations, but I believe it's nine out of the last 10 years where a flat or reduced levy rate. And I think as we're getting increases to other things that are outside of our control, you you cross you put a cross-section of the flat or reduced rate with what we're seeing for increases in fire service or a lot of the inflation even after that ends up by nature cutting into other services because we can't there are certain costs that are out of our control and that what happens is that you end up having staff taking or having to perform more duties with less resources. And so that's how we fell to such staffing in so many areas because there were years where um you know there where the staff was told this is the final number and being given a target of okay what what needs to get cut and it ends up you know in things we're not getting done and I don't know if the those impacts were fully communicated as to where we were falling short very well in the past >> so to build off what Matt said there for a second I I had I talked to a lot of residents in the last 72 hours uh because if people call I I I want to have a conversation with them and I want to hear them and I talked through their statements with them and some of them I'd had conversations with in the past where they wanted to add lines of service, for example, winter trails maintenance >> and and I had a conversation with them about how this uh this budget doesn't add lines of service. This is to provide the professional services we've been asked to deliver. And so I don't discount that it's significant. I'm just pointing out that the city was not adequately staffed and as a consequence was failing in many areas. finance. Uh we didn't have minutes uh of our council meetings for over a year uh which is a statutory requirement. So there was a there was a lot of business areas in which the city was outright failing because we didn't have the adequate staff. We didn't have the necessary skills and it's because we didn't have the necessary resources in order to get those met. I'm very proud of the way that the team has grown and it's because council has supported us in getting the right people on the bus doing the right things. Uh if you've noticed and in huge contrast to the last two years, there's not a lot of staff changes. uh the staff changes are in those areas in which we're either behind uh because we're still trying to hire some people uh or we're reallocating resources because we're learning, okay, we don't need this type of person. If we look at public works, we're going to retool a position because we need a fleet manager now and that's going to help us be a better steward of the resources that we have in terms of our equipment. Uh so so we're not growing uh the team larger. Uh this is what it costs in order to support the team that we have. So I I would ask and I don't discount that it's significant, but the reason it's significant is because it hasn't been properly staffed with the right skill levels and and and the the appropriate resources. And now we're not failing. I'd say that we're doing very well. We're not huge. we still are a lean staff uh comparatively for some of our other growing cities. And I also would say that there's neighboring cities that have fewer staff. I acknowledge that. Uh but to deliver those services that we've been asked to deliver, um this is where we're at. So I would ask if there is a need to cut that you would provide some guidance on what you would like us to stop doing because that's the only way that we can really cut is to stop doing certain things because right now all the services that we're delivering as I understand it are things that we've been asked to do. And so if there's things that we are doing that we shouldn't be doing please call us out on that. We don't want to do that. >> Um I think I I think I've covered the couple things I'd like to see. Um Lisa's options to trim back the overall number. Um and then Jeremy and Dana Mark highlighted a couple things maybe to to at least look at and possibly tighten up if possible and see where that comes in at. >> Another one that has come up is our legal fees. Uh and and so there's two things regarding the legal fees. one, our our bargaining is moving into 2026 from where we thought that it was. Uh potentially, I hope not, but likely that's that's what could be happening. So, our labor attorney fees are up and then hope that some of the lawsuits that we've had will be closing and we're going to have some LMCIT legal bills that we're going to have to pay in 2026. uh particularly the housing first one is going to be a significant bill for us um that hopefully will resolve in April. Um so that's why the legal fees are where they're at is forecasted expenditures and some of them have been longstanding. >> Not much we can do about that one at every stage still cost money. Does that is there a surplus on that line this year then? Because those things did get pushed out. >> We've had a couple of unforeseen lawsuits that have occurred. Uh that initially LMCIT is going to have some of the fees, but before LMC picks it all up, our city attorney fees have gone up as a consequence of trying to help us with that. >> Okay. I will say at first I panicked because uh when I saw the number I thought wow things really jacked up his rates this year that made a lot more sense when the full explanation of why what's all being included in the legal uh line >> comment come on >> he's too smart for that >> all right well I think that's everything we for that. >> I think the uh city attorney should make a park donation. >> Yeah, we have a >> question. >> We can call it Heritage Thes Park. >> Heritage Themes. >> That goes against the naming policy. >> We could name an amenity. The splash pad. >> There you go. >> Legal waters. So, I did a little bit of crunching and thank you Jay for the data that you gave us this afternoon that you shared. Um, looking back as far as the data went, I'm seeing a population plus inflation average compound annual growth rate of about 14.4%. And then with this proposed levy, we're at about 18.7% over the same period. So, slightly higher, not as much as I was afraid of. Uh, and I think a big chunk of that is the 500k hole we're trying to fill from the 2018 council or whatever it was. So, it'd be really great if there was another way to deal with that besides a one-year lump sum increase to keep us more on track, but I know we're limited in the number of levers that we could pull. So, I feel like the next best thing that's going to have the biggest impact is probably the interest income just to make sure we're fully exploiting what we can responsibly. >> Or the lottery. >> There you go. >> We we are not authorized to spend city funds on lottery tickets, but we can take donations. >> We could start our own lottery. >> 643 million this this Wednesday. So, >> I think donate a million. buy and buy buy tickets, buy often. >> There you go. That's probably terrible advice. >> I will share. >> Sounds good. >> All righty. We'll go on to new business. Um, which is the wayfinding policy guidance. Um, >> oh, did you have something to present? >> I mean, unless you >> No, if you want. Yeah, go for it. >> It wasn't anything like I don't have or anything. But >> you have to turn >> the batteries out. I talk loud enough, right? I think we'll be okay. >> Huh? >> That's okay. The batteries are over there and they're probably dead at this point. >> Um, so the the start of this discussion really came from >> the fat throw. >> Fat throw. I didn't want to hit you in the face in the middle of a meeting. >> Kind of a weak throw there. >> Yeah, >> it would have been way worse to give her a black eye the other council meeting. >> If you want, we can enroll you in our T-ball program. >> Okay. Uh, go back to the budget. I think we can cut a good amount of trails. >> I'm sensing more billable hours. >> That looks like a safety Okay. So, this discussion, >> yeah, see, I told you you really probably didn't want me to use the mic, but you guys insisted, so I'll probably stand back. Uh, this whole conversation kind of started when we renamed City Park Heritage Park. And as the park is developing, we would have needed new signs at the park anyways because one of them spells pavilion incorrectly if we're being honest. And then there's some other ones where it just doesn't quite fit what we're developing now. Um some of them still say Rockford School District on them. So we're at kind of as Kevin would say the nexus to address this. Um so I'm kind of looking for guidance from the council. First off, is a wayfinding policy something you are interested in before we even delve down this rabbit hole? And if so, what specific parts would you like staff to really hone in on? Are you looking for a development of a greater policy that encompasses parks, trails, citywide facilities like the public works building or the new city campus? Or are you looking more for let's address the problem of the parks needing a sign to tell you where you are and maybe some rule signs and then we expand it? I guess at this point I'm just looking for direction. What are you guys looking to see? >> I would like to see Google Maps. Can people not find these locations? I don't I don't know why this is necessary. So for reference, I would say the monument sign is probably the biggest one and then rules and regulation signs. So it's pretty standard to have monument signs within parks. At least at minimum, I would say community parks like Heritage Park or the open space parks. The reason for that, they are larger in size. It it does make sense to kind of have a gateway into the park. Now, if you were looking at a neighborhood park and you said, "Do we need a gateway sign?" I think that's up for debate for sure. Um, I mean, does Wildflower Park need a sign? That's part of my question for you. Is that something that you would like to see? Does that look the same as a community park sign or is it smaller? >> I think that's something I'd like to explore with uh, HKGI. >> Okay. >> Um, personally, I think there I think it makes sense to have a policy and to look at some of the stuff. I don't think that it's all nearly as pressing as as some of the items like I think park to your point um specifically Heritage Park um is the most uh pressing signage issue of some of the building stuff we have some time and I don't know that the water treatment facility needs the sign or something like that necessarily. It's something we can explore I think later. Um, and to me the rules and regulatory signs uh kind of that second because that's something that can't really be on a Google maps or >> right. And I will note we do have uh rules on signs at Heritage Park currently. So that wouldn't be like a huge pressing issue specific to that park. I believe we also have a sign at Wildflower Park. So, we did address that just because we were having some issues with dogs uh defecating in the parks. So, in an effort to address that, we did kind of do that part already. But at least looking at should we be looking at monument signs? I'm hearing that maybe we work with HKGI. Um, initially staff's proposition was to do it in-house to provide a more budgetneutral option and then maybe have HKGI come in at the end to finalize the policy kind of help us really yeah graphics I'm not a designer >> that work that works for me. I mean, if we I think if we could maybe it's a work session or something next year that we um can get an idea of where we do have signage, how it's looking, what needs to be updated, what upcoming places, parks, whatever need signage, we kind of prioritize that and see what we're ballpark looking costwise for kind of the starting point. if we wanted to build out more to full city facilities there. We can kind of get a sense of because I have no idea how much we're talking and probably won't figure that out till we dig into some of that. >> And I think a lot of it is going to vary based on what >> right >> the design looks like, what materials you want to use, what's included on it. I mean, there's a lot of variables that can change that. >> And at least for a starting point, I just wanted to know, are we looking only at parks or are we looking grand scheme? If if I could ask real quick, I'm sorry. Why is it called wayf finding? >> You need to find your way. >> I I would say from the public safety perspective as well, it would be good to have some kind of marks on the trails. So people as we build out our trail system that is people if there's an issue and we're having to respond as public safety, saying I'm on the trail isn't helpful to us. And depending on sometimes the geoloccate is not always an option or the if they're pinpointing it, it's it's not easy to respond to. So if they say I'm in a bellweather trail, gets us close, but it would be helpful for us if there were at least identifiers as to what leg system they're on or if there are markers or stops. >> Just real quick for me, none of us are experts at this. We got them here. I'd rather a recommendation come to us saying yes, I wanna I want to sign a wildflower that says is wildflower park and please leash your dog and pick up after your animals. Same as city park, Heritage Park, probably a little bit more of a granny sign and such. We >> a tractor. We do have a tractor donated by Mike. >> Yeah, we gota Well, >> it needs some work. >> Gonna need a whole lot of lipstick on that pig. Um, but I mean the the three rivers, can we enlist three rivers? >> That's what I was saying. >> So, three rivers when they do their when they do their development, when the trail connections happen, they actually have a whole standard. It looks the same throughout the three river system. >> The intention is to have a kiosk at Heritage Park once we develop a trail head in that area. However, at this point, it's got to be >> all all stuff. I'd rather get the recommendation from you. We've got police here. I my daughter being part of 911, there needs to be locators. It needs to be better. I hear it all the time. All things I would love to see, but the people that do it every day and stuff. I'd rather re that recommendation come to us. I I want it nice, but I don't want to break the bank because all of this signage is going to come out of parks and trails if it's >> likely park dedication. Yeah. if it's happening at the time of the development. >> I'd like to spend wisely like you've done. >> Those items too can look really different depending on what sort of finishes you want. So sometimes it's wood, sometimes it's uh we we went in certain areas in Shakipi in order to get the public safety component addressed. You know those things that you have that that are kind of flexible. I forget what they're called public works type thing utility thing. We got colored ones of those that covered city colors and then it had stickers on it with QR codes so that we could address that gave you mile markers and it was they were really inexpensive but we had so many miles I mean there were 77 miles of trail and so not having that many many miles of trail might be more advantageous to do something that embraces our rural character >> this might not be the nexus for it >> good usage >> Kevin's corner is coming up in an hour go get him >> in in minds of keeping it cost effective is there a way to leverage some of the existing signs we do for wetland buffers and just put additional things onto those same posts. Kind of like what Jay was talking about with the little plastic. But most of the trails that I see at some point run parallel to a wetland. Maybe it's possible to leverage some of those posts. >> Y a lot of them. >> Yeah. >> Worth a look. >> Every hundred feet, right? And then as we get into it, I think maybe >> y >> maybe just this be later on we're talking materials and style and stuff probably be helpful if staff could put together nearby cities or just different options because like kind of like we did with the water tower and other stuff like we don't really know what we're what our options are unless we see some examples. if it helps. I do still have some from probably 2018 that I could send your way. That would be a good start. >> Perfect. >> At least for example. So what I'm hearing then kind of start the process maybe come forward with a policy in quarter 1 of 26. Um the intention was to probably bring a policy through parks and trails in December just like a draft policy so that they can review it, give any feedback. >> That way you get a first set of eyes on it before it comes your way. >> That'd be great. Mr. Mayor, yeah. >> Is there a way that we could shamelessly borrow Tree Rivers policy and go off of that? >> I think that would be a very financially expensive decision. >> Higher than Corkran's going to want to pay, >> but it's a start and we can we can step it down from that. But I'm just saying that's an extreme. >> And I have reached out to some other cities about their wayfinding policies in advance to try and get them before this conversation. if this is something that you guys wanted to go through. So, >> but a lot of their trails are going to come through our city and are part of >> our standard trails. So, if there's a cheaper way of doing what they're doing, just saying >> there is. Come on. >> Yeah. You wouldn't need the like map stands that they do. >> Yeah. >> Right. But then it doesn't meet the threshold that you're looking for there. So, I think there's probably a balance that we can find >> where we can meet public safety's needs of locating. We can meet parks and recreation needs of finding where you're going for an activity. I mean, I can't tell you how many times people get lost at the fields at Heritage Park. >> Yeah, those wood signs are pretty tired. >> Well, when you have soccer, that's when it gets more tough. So, the things like the bulletin boards at the park actually serve as a wayfinding option as well. So that's been really beneficial. >> Sounds good. >> Questions? >> Wonderful. Thank you. >> Thanks for asking. Thank you. >> All righty. And with that, I believe uh we are pretty much done. Any staff reports? Okay. >> Uh I will be out tomorrow uh gone to Wisconsin for the weekend, but I will have my phone and my uh in my computer. No snowmobile questions I hope this weekend. >> Knock on wood. >> So, >> have fun. Have a happy Thanksgiving everyone. >> Happy Thanksgiving. >> Ju just a couple reminders. December 3rd is uh is our uh city holiday party and it'll be the presentation of our employees of the year. Uh if council would like to join us. Uh and then a reminder that December uh 11:30 to 1 >> here here at city hall 11:30 to 1. >> That was enough straw bales. >> Thank you. >> That work? >> Yes. >> Okay. Let me know if you need something else. Do we need to bring something >> yourselves? >> Okay. >> You can come dressed. >> You want him to You want an appearance? >> Why not? >> I'm asking. >> Yes, please. >> I don't do it unless I get invited. >> Yeah, you're invited. Please. Please come and we can get a >> Santa Claus. Uh and then a reminder that December 9th is the holiday to food drive. Yes. >> Uh and with a weather date of the 10th uh if that becomes necessary, but does not become necessary. >> We're all Mr. Mayor, I got a couple of things. Yeah. >> If it's our turn. Um, I know it's going to be probably in the spring, but is there any way we can accelerate the crosswalk signs crossing 10 over to M&I Homes from Heritage Park? >> People should not be utilizing that trail right now because it's still inactive. >> I've I've asked them to, but they keep kicking the signs down when I see them walking across and those kind of things. So, >> fence up now. >> Something's changed in the last day or two. It was up there yesterday when I went up. >> I didn't go by yet then. Okay. >> Yep. So, all of the trail portions where they could enter are currently snow fence because we still have that. >> So, it's their choice, but there's a plan of three rivers or the county putting up a lid crosswalk at that. >> Well, there is a crosswalk. >> It's not marked. There's no sign >> was the idea. There's just an island and there's an apron now on the new on the new uh trail and those kind of things, but there's no signage, no pedestrian, no nothing. >> We'll have to work with the county on >> Okay. And then um our website with the meet recent change in our IT side. I don't know if someone can add um Right. Henipin's contact on power outages and do we have Great River Energy on the north side? Is there some >> folks up there? >> It was a great it was a great public service announcement XL Energy. Call them. I know I've got my shortcut for Right Henipin, but others they call me at their power out and then like call your >> Yeah, I've got those too. >> Perfect. got them to reply to me on Twitter once. >> I have some snow on my >> Yeah, I'm just saying I the the everything that's happened up until this point, if it was that IT person doing that, thank them. If it was somebody else, >> communications, >> let Aaron know. >> Outstanding. Thank you. So, Three Rivers, the Great River, and those are the two items. Thank you. >> All right. Anyone else? I'll just reiterate think Jay said uh up next meeting is the 11th at 7 o'clock and the holiday food and toy yeah that uh drive parade is on the 9th uh and hopefully not the 10th and then then we'll be done for the year. So with that I will entertain a motion to adjurnn. >> I move to adjurnn. >> Second. >> All those in favor say I. All right. >> All right. Good.