Schmid here Frederick is online but not here Christensen that's me here Nao is also online not yet okay ster here and Anderson here okay great now I'd like to invite everyone to partake the pleasure with us to the United States of America stand na God indivisible with liy and justice for all all right so first thing is the agenda approval does anyone have any updates Corrections questions comments Etc I might have us pause for just a moment sure Naturally the sound is not oh I think now we are sound here good okay uh agenda approval any comments updates me no move to accept yes then we'll need a second second uh all right we have a second and what's second we can vote you can ask for you can ask for comments oh do we have any further comments no all right then all in favor say I I and those oppos say nay all right all right we're good on that next is the meeting no oh agenda approval or no meeting minutes from last meeting February 15th any updates questions things on [Applause] [Applause] that I'll move to accept as presented all right we'll take a second a second okay great all those in favor say I I I I and those opposed say nay I think we're good on that then uh moving on to open Forum public comments opportunity is it commented on everything anything not on the agenda anything not on the agenda okay so I'll get the comment on agenda stuff okay we don't take comments online anymore nope okay unfortunately so looks like no comments for the open Forum so we'll move on to presentations H KGI introduction and city park Concepts uh chair and commissioners before we have her come up um I'm Jay Tobin if we haven't met I'm the city administrator and uh I have received some questions since the agenda went out uh about a couple things that I wanted to clarify before we do have Gabby present um I know that a lot of work and thought went into developing some Concepts and when I started on December 4th uh for those of you my my background I was the Parks and Recreation director in Shaka and so I have a bit of experience in in developing different parks and when uh Jessica and I sat down and went through the plan uh I then got staffed together a couple things that I was concerned about of of the concept plan that had been out and we went on the ground and talked about some things and then we also asked HGI to do a site plan and the reason that there's some new Concepts that are coming forward is the concept plan that been developed at that time uh had a couple concerns in for me in terms of expense and so can you bring that picture up so a couple things that we're concerning to me is is I want us to be I I want us to be using the uh the resources there sias on uh I I wanted us to be using the resources that we have available to us to the best of our ability and one of the things that I recognize when we look at this plan is uh coming right off of 10 this is approximately where the trunk sewer line is uh and these plans that that were here had a lot of the amenities in this area and towards the middle of the park relying on the trunk sewer and and I've had some experience in the cost associated with moving a trunk sewer in contrast we also have a water line down here at the South End of the park that already goes all the way halfway into the park so rather than spending a lot of our resources on Plumbing expensive Plumbing I I wanted to explore opportunities for us to spend them on other amenities and so the plans that hkg is going to propose include all the amenities that were discussed nothing was eliminated uh just the idea was moving those things South so that we could maximize them with our budget another thing when we got on the ground that might not be evident to everyone but this low-lying land through here as I talked with staff it floods pretty routinely and in addition the soils are pretty bad so some of the amenities that we've talked about putting in those areas we'd spend a lot of money just on the soil remediation or dealing with the soils and so one of the things I asked them to do is where can we get our most bang for the buck without having to move a lot of dirt and and that's why some of these ideas reflect that is we're trying to put buildings and other amenities and spaces that that we're going to get the most bang for our buck and so I just wanted to explain that because as we got questions I know a lot of thought went into it and I imagine there's some frustration like hey I invested a lot of time and energy thinking about this why are you doing this and so the intent is to make the best use of the resources of money that we have have and the best use of resources of the topography that we have the realities of the topography that we have in the park and so I just wanted to to set that stage uh so so that as Gabby comes up to talk about the plans that have developed they reflect um also the reality that there's a lot of maintenance required in this space and in the previous plans the the maintenance Crews were concerned that it didn't take into account where they needed to have some of their things and where they needed to store some of their stuff and so we tried to accommodate accommodate that in ways that made sense too so those are probably three key pieces that if you were part of the process before you you would appropriately be asking the question it kind of feels like we're taking a step back and instead I I just want to cast that actually this is a step forward because we're trying to be really intentional about the resources because when it comes time to go we we don't want to spend all of our money moving dirt around here in the the lower land let's activate that space in a way that isn't going to require us to do that let's not spend a million dollars moving a trunk sewer halfway through the park um so so those sorts come I just wanted any questions for me about that um I just got some questions this week and so I wanted to set that stage because I can understand why you'd be frustrated if you invested a lot of thought time and energy into it it wasn't an intention to take a step back it was an intention to take an intentional step forward considering the conditions and stewardship thanks so I'd just like to say this you know the city's going to have to live with this design for the next generation at least and and to take a little more extra time and make it fit into the actual environment is all to the good um and it you know as a bunch of civilians planning a park uh that simply was not in our frame of reference so this is I think this is pretty tremendous it's a good thing we could wait wait build it the old way and then say ah you know if we'd done this we would have been much happier we can we'll still probably do that but it'll be with something [Applause] else you can bear with me I'm going to try to look at this one while I present um I'm Gabrielle G architect with h KGI and I think I got hired the same exact day maybe we I think our first meeting Jay and I were at the uh our first meeting together so we had similar thoughts on the concept when we were hired in sort of in the middle of the process of planning city park we looked at the previous concept and we said well why is this here and why is this here and maybe we should go through the process of exploring options before just moving forward with this concept so it was maybe equally our fault all right uh so next slide so the goals of this presentation tonight are to review and discuss the city park Concepts that we've developed so we have three concepts to review and then hopefully we can select one of those or a combination of those to move forward with and uh refine the design and then also a little bit touching on the park system growth and expansion and how that relates to City Park next slide so since uh November we have gone through the process of reviewing a lot of background information uh we looked at the comprehensive plan the previous concept that was developed talked with City staff about a lot of the priorities that were discussed so parking was definitely an issue pickle ball uh developing a new Splash Pad replacing the playground developing a new Pavilion and then incorporating Trails all seem to come to the top as themes that were in the previous concept and that should be developed into the future implementation uh so we visited the site so I visited the site along with staff and then a few other people at my office who have a lot of experience in park design so we took lots of photos we looked at where we thought the best features in the park were or features that needed to be improved uh we went through a site analysis exercise so we went through a long list of existing conditions where are the issues where are the opportunities where are the great places that should be preserved where are places that need Improvement we talked to some of the maintenance staff so City staff went through this exercise and then I went through this exercise with a few of my staff and we came together and looked at what we had developed and came up with some Concepts so we went through some iterations of moving things around seeing what fit and then we have the three draft Concepts to present tonight uh so this is just an image of some of our site analysis notes and some of our photos we were there on a day when it was very foggy and the ice was melting on the rigs um it's a little sad and it was quiet but it was also beautiful and we really felt that the creek and the woods were really nice features that could really be enhanced and celebrated more in the park and so part of what we did in our Concepts is focus more on those areas so these are images of the three concepts and just at a high level um we know ball fields are really really important because just does a lot of programming at this park and youth sports is very important to this park so um at a high level concept A and C both have six ball fields concept B only has four ball fields and then uh the four t ball fields are preserved in all four Concepts we heard that those are very valuable pieces of the park and uh they're appreciated by the people that use them uh we used U10 soccer fields as a way to identify where plates of open space and soccer could be laid out so concept A has four ut1 Fields B and C both have seven and then B and C have the ability to have one full siiz soccer field if that is desired it would fit uh but a there isn't a space that it would fit unless it takes over some of the ball diamonds is that on concept B the fulls size field like would it be where the seven smaller ones are so it's an optional okay so it's not cuz I was wonder where the space was for one but it's not both it's right Y and it's very light so it's hard to see So currently our program I can't quite see sorry programming currently uh exists with U6 u8 U10 and u12 as the highest we go so they're really not using the full soccer field so incorporating those smaller Fields kind of gives you a better idea but it also shows hey we could do this should we need to for some reason if it does get to that point okay and then we also have um parking so we have used the existing parking areas in all three concepts except concept C we move the large parking area to the Northwest but um the the parking stalls there's 227 in a 264 in B and 235 in C so whichever concept we choose will refine based on the needs to maximize the amount of parking stalls and organize it in a way that's most efficient okay next so this is concept A go to the next slide go in a little more detail so again in concept a there are six ball fields so the Clover Leaf today has three we've moved essentially the size of Snider field over to that four to complete the Clover Leaf so there are four Fields there and then in the place of SNY field we have put uh the hockey tennis and a warming house Maintenance building so the existing Maintenance building is around 1500 square ft we're showing approximately 4,000 square foot building with room for 2,000 ft of exp expansion we heard from the maintenance staff that really having space for their equipment is a key need in the park so U making sure that we identify where that is and that it's located adjacent to other amenities like the hockey that needs some of those uh maintenance equipment that are stored there uh we're identifying a um keeping the star shaped picnic shelter in all the concepts we thought that was very nice amenity and we think that it's in pretty good shape so uh We've kept that in all the concepts um in this concept we have two basketball courts shown where the existing playground is and then removing the existing tennis courts and replacing or building two new tennis courts near the hockey and warming house uh Meister field stays where it is the parking lot on the south side near the existing warming house is formalized and paved so it's essentially the same plate of parking and then we've we identified in all the concepts of space where the Diamond Lake Regional Trail comes in from the south so that access point is shown in the same spot in all three concepts and then we've identified space for a three Riv Park District trail head so looking at the space that they desire for their standards um in this concept it is just to the northwest of that southern parking lot you can see a small rectangle that says Trail yep thank you uh then lines field stays where it is the 14 ball fields and then to the west of that where the existing parking lot is so that's higher ground there we're showing the new uh Pavilion building so that would include Mechanicals for the proposed Splash Pad adjacent to it and then indoor programming space and then there is a new playground sh shown to the north of that and then pickle ball courts to the West so those uses all work together and those will be next to a new formalized parking lot and then the Regional Trail are thought is that that could go into the park and go up towards the center of the park next to the creek in the woods to take advantage of that natural open space and then it would come out to meet up uh at County Road 10 to go into the development across the road okay oh there's an Amphitheater as Wells six and then so the in these maps that light blue on the left is like an elevated kind of woods area I'm just the lake blue is Wetlands so the NWI Wetlands that are on the County website so those have not don't know how old that data is or they have not been delineated in this plan but that's where the boundary of wetlands are okay so if we do Trails through the wetlands like that or they do they need to be like elevated in some way or uh so for these yeah uh possibly that's we've identified this area is a future phase so um this main Loop that goes around the Ballfield would ideally be the first phase don't go through any Wetlands but yeah this potentially could be affordable so you were you were in your proposal would be that outer loop is it like a second phase that even the trail itself yeah anything up here okay and part of my question was like those fields on the bottom left how much room is really around them if you were to lay it out like that can you really fit three in there like it shows if the wetlands are right there yeah that is a good question that is somewhere that well there's the the field right here that is higher level but this area would need some gradings we currently use some of that space for soccer I'll admit it's not the most even area of land so it does add it a little a little bit of an extra challenge when the kids play but while it gets wet it currently hasn't like overflooded or anything and it's been usable kind of along the parking lot side and there's room like around the field for people to sit and stuff is that like okay so we shouldn't have to deal with it flooding or being too wet to play necessarily at least for right now it's minimal yes there definitely have to be some grading though yeah so we'd improve what's there even in out okay the trails are all assumed to be paved at this point What's the difference between the black and white oh that's where the existing Trail is okay it's not it's um not paved but it's compacted so it's essentially a a level surface that could be just paved not graded but all of the concepts would need some grading and then another question do you consider like what were the main entrance to the park with this new configuration like what would like is it the big one the biggest parking lot you'd anticipate being kind of if we were to set up a main yeah so Concepts B and C do use the existing access on County Road 50 uh but this concept does relocate it to the West so that would be a question for henin County if they would allow that relocation and my thoughts are around we're trying to like introduce a theme and stuff like that so where do you if we have a bunch of different entrances it's harder to like bang for your buck put in a bunch of different features or whatever it's going to be so that's what I was well I thought with keeping the existing access points is that there are a lot of uses at this park today and so concentrating them all at one access could cause even more traffic problems uh so this does offer people who want to use the facilities in the East to park there and then they can use the trails to access other sites so if this parking lot does fill up for uses over here people can park here and easily walk over sure um and we did identify with the dash line some of the potential over overflow parking if uh there's an event and there's grassy areas more parking my only sorry I keep going the only other thought I have is that parking lot on the right the trail goes almost up to the other Trail right where we would cross like I assume most people just go across there I think it would make sense to join those two under the tennis court yes yeah that's I think we were doing some moving things around so maybe that would be I think it did come through but yes that's a good point make sure that those align and then just just back to the soccer fields real quick is there any from your experience like is there any concern with it being so close to that Wetland that you know ball gets kicked into there and I without seeing it I I don't know is it I don't think it's peren perennially wet I mean it it's only really with heavy storms that they're standing water and to my knowledge I believe that it's actually getting farmed or it was for a while so okay so not we're usually a little more East towards the parking that helps so one concern that we did have with this concept is that these uses are not the prettiest and they are across from a residential area so something to consider when you're looking at how people view the park from all the edges we're not at the point of planting trees and whatnot yet either right so that would be part of that so we could do screening yeah screen that lot on the the right the skinny ones uh why are we separating those two the little one on the right and then the slightly bigger one or is that not a parking lot the one yeah should that not be one whole parking lot like we have a little Connector Road or something there right yeah I think that was just to give more space to but we could connect those okay and I'm assuming we have like usage numbers for each of these fields and that's how we're basing our parking spots we would get a little more fine-tuned in terms of how the the fields are used because we did get the the schedules um but I know the numbers change each year so we would base it off of the highest possible scenario and then maximize the parking so we could you know this isn't fully designed this is more illustrative than actual um way that with all the dimensions so we can expand the parking lots to include the numbers but essentially you think this is um a good base level of parking well one of the things that I was asking hkg to do was you know as as I've heard clearly we want this to be a gathering space for the community is is how do we help facilitate that and so the amphitheater uh concept was was one thing that was helpful and then how can you activate the amphitheater thinking about other act you know do we start having concerts there uh maybe weddings that could be cool uh and so then do you have enough space for a small wedding or a family reunion or those types of activities in the Pavilion uh so that then the kids can go play on the playground you can you know have a family softball game what whatever your activity or your thing is as a family uh it lends itself to a lot of different opportun unities but internal space is is a premium so making sure that we have a pavilion that's large enough and then also when we talked about the warming house that warming house becomes a usable space as a rentable space potentially for smaller Gatherings small birthday parties or programming or and so uh just as we look at the spaces want to make sure that we're giving us enough room uh to actually meet the intention of of gathering as a community and this one I liked the how close the playground and the Pavilion or not yeah the Pavilion and the splash pad are some of the other ones they start to get close to like to the road and so I liked at least being this far off of the main road um my only other concern was the proximity to pickle offall courts in playground I know we've had talked about volume of pickle ball and that type of stuff so you should hear the kids on the playground though too so might work yeah we tried to keep that away from the neighborhoods as much as possible which is why you'll see it more centralized just because like you said it is loud and the people in Rush Creek might not appreciate it being super close went through a similar issue with their pick courts recently and we put new ones in in shock if you right before I left across the street from a neighborhood uh they were converted tennis courts and Tennis is quieter than pickle ball people but but one thing that's kind kind of neat to see is is is the activation of the space uh and multigenerational I I didn't expect that with pickle ball I'm candidly not a huge pickle ball fan but I am a can a fan of activating spaces in meaningful ways and uh so seeing grandparents playing with grandkids you know uh the skill levels so very too uh whereas tennis I I can't hit tennis ball but I can pong of a wh pickle ball so uh I I agree that by by moving it away that might mitigate some of that because the South development is intended to be an industrial park in the future so we're not going to have the complaints from an industrial park that we'll have from a neighbors how about that tennis court right there closest to 10 can that I mean person who doesn't do pickle ball or tennis can they play pickle ball on that I don't know is are they interchangeable you could stripe so so when you multistripe it what happens is is the tennis players get forced off because the pickle ball players are are higher in volume and they take over the spaces so that's what that's why we converted the tennis courts in Shaka to pickle ball courts because of the use and so you can multi-stripe it but my observation has been it they get converted then okay tenis to pickle ball the tennis net is two inches higher than the regulation pickle ball so you be oblig higher net we used we used uh mobile Nets or temporary Nets and so you set them up on either side of the regular net so it's striped on either side of the of the tennis that that's a way to do it also most tennis Nets have a crank but you could lower or a belt in the middle you tighten or lo I mean an observation is you can play tennis P ball on a tennis court you can't play tennis on okay with that tennis you know it's been a long time um but my son play played competitive tennis and so windy where the court is now he absolutely hated it and we were going to Medina to in ham the off of Hunter that Legion cour because it was just too and so this maybe is a better location than than where it is now but I think that's one thing to consider yeah do wind screens and vegetation screening around tenis and toate that also I didn't point out where the Amper is but we've in all three concepts we've identified removing the volleyball court because we heard that was underutilized and so using the natural topography looking down at the creek we put in a Ampitheater you you really highlighted the uh the creek and the the low lines would the intention be that we would actually use we do some Redevelopment or undevelopment to make those Creeks look more Creek like as opposed to just run off yeah the it would be nice to do some revation along the streams to make you know put in Native plantings and enhance them for uh natural benefits as well as aesthetic benefits it it looks to me like there is not room on this plan for a uh a cricket pitch we did not DOT that in cricket pitches are quite large but the um I believe that this field is used today for Cricket it might not be big enough we are a home field for a cricket team and they do utilize ball field three which is one of the existing ball fields this one up here um they said is it perfect no not particularly but does it work well yes okay um you know what they don't like about it for is it too is it the size or is it I think it's the fact that it's a softball field sure well but field is not verus like the so they probably play out in the middle of the out field so when when I looked at installing Cricut fields and SHP one of the things when you measure it out it does take a little bit larger space and so you're changing some Terrain in order to orient it that way so you might go into the gravel area versus the turf area when you're utilizing a softball or a baseball field sure and and then the pitch itself the cricket pitch uh is is usually gravel or uh whatever the material I'm getting wrong but but that would usually be in the center of it and that's hard to get in the center of it uh when you're but um Eden Prairie has a substantial uh Cricut um leag uh and and they're utilizing their ball field similar to this uh right right along FL Cloud Airport is there anything uh in particular with the well like the Snider meister and lions field I noticed on not that we're on B yet but that they're not all used on that like I the naming is there something historically that we need to keep those names of those fields or was it just to reuse the names I would imagine that if the field is remaining in the same spot like in this instance where Meer and lions remain in their home base I would say it doesn't make a lot of sense to rename it since it's already got its name and it's familiar yeah it's cuz I noticed on the second one Meister is gone and lions is gone and I just wanted to make sure that that wasn't uh do a disservice to any meisters in the community or anything like that so yeah there he is we could potentially rename one of the existing ball fields that doesn't have a name as well can move to the second so concept b um like you're just mentioning only has four ball fields so we have removed Meister field and lion field and then uh placed the Pavilion playround and splash pad in the area where Lions field is today we again keep the four t-ball fields we put one basketball court where the existing playground is today the amphitheater is in the the spot looking towards the creek and then the hockey free skate and warming house are rebuilt in essentially the same location they are today just um improved uh the parking lots are all essentially in the same location they are today just outlined the Stalls and then Meister field is removed and it's replaced with an open field uh event space and a picnic shelter uh then we've placed tennis court two tennis courts and six pickle ball courts just to the south of the existing fall field in the Clover Leaf and so north of the existing parking lot and then we have a plate of soccer fields uh on the fourth field of the CL Lea essentially so once again we're showing the regional Trails circling around towards the creek and wetlands and showing a Regional Trail Head uh to the west southwest of the large parking lot so this concept does a little less blowing up of the existing facilities in the East sniger field remains we heard that the um the Press Box is very nice there and and it's valued and that's a a nice field so keeping that and then putting uh the event space and that corner where a lot of eyes get on the park could potentially be a nice use and then the the playground here is closer to County 50 so if that is a concern um we can flipflop the building in the playground but that's also maybe a nice view from the road where you can see people using the park Jessica just to be sure at at current use levels do we have enough ball fields with keeping the t- ball fields yes I would say so I think the t- ball fields were a little undervalued in the first concept okay um we use them for t-ball as well as coach pitch which makes up 23 thirds of the baseball program so um with that I mean having the other four fields we really only lose we lose two but to be totally honest Lions goes underwater quite a bit so that happens but I would say yes we could get by with four and her mentioning that actually is is one of my concerns about this concept is putting buildings in a in a space that floods a lot is going to require some significant movement of dirt uh um so so I like the layout of how that flows but I'm concerned about how much we'd spend on preparing the ground yeah there definitely our tradeoffs with this being a little closer to the utilities but also in the lower area so the other one the buildings higher up but a little farther from utilities so um there are some trade UPS this also has the benefit of this larger area of soccer fields could be an event space as well so this has this concept has some more options for flexible space yeah I like the options this gives us in that open field area when I looked at this one I like that I the one that's I don't the playground being super close it's hard to tell just from the picture it's probably 40t or so but it being the closest thing to the road depending on what we would do with fencing or trees or something that would be my only concerned with this layout but I do like how you could convert that area to whatever Fields you'd like on the [Applause] left then I don't know the rhyme I don't know if you you said it was the second part but I did like the big looping Trail of the first plan around the second state phase and this one doesn't include that but I assume you that could be incorporated into this one as well is there yeah that one just comes down it's just showing different options sure so looking we would probably when we actually designed this look at where the most logical place is to cross the creek so so you've talked I see that you've got the Regional Trail sort of indicated and if somebody were to be coming in from the from the north when they get to the T by the roughly by the existing shelter it would be have to be well marked cuz if you go the other direction you're kind of not where you want to be if you're on a bicycle right you want to go the other way yeah and three R has pretty high they strict standards for their way finding so y yep okay yeah yeah this one doesn't have a quick connection between the exit and entrance if you're just going down the Diamond Lake Trail you've got to go that's okay you want him to go through the park yeah yeah um and if I can just take one second to add one more thing because I may have missed it in concept A but there was something as a at a staff level that we had noticed with a uh the Regional Trail head is located down here in the South you'll notice that it's located right next to this parking lot um a discussion we had as a staff is that's really convenient for people who are coming strictly for the Regional Trail especially considering I participate in a volleyball league at a certain Park that shall not be named and they have a lot of bikers that utilize it and the bikers overtake a lot of that parking lot so then the scheduled activities don't have a parking space so you're found either parking on the road in a place that's not marked or what have you so as you're looking at that just notice the Regional Trail Head locations as well but I'll go back to [Applause] be so Jay I think you said we'd probably need more G in here because of the flooding but we're also grouping more of the amenities so so where we're uh on concept B we're the playground where where all of those amenities are located the playground in the building and stuff right now is essentially where Lion's uh field is and and it floods every year uh is is what I'm being told I haven't been here for a spring yet uh and and so the the consequence that that's an indicator of the quality of the soils but also some of the things we'd have to do in order to be able to put that in in contrast the concept A had it located on U current grading that is probably about 5 to six feet higher already uh and so we wouldn't experience those types of challenges as we're putting in those amenities uh and so that that was one of the reasons why leaving Lions field there knowing that it floods but when it's not flooded we can use it so we're not spending a lot of time on it but it's still usable space another thing we talked about his staff was just turning that area in there into just Green Space uh you know so you can go down there and play and stuff but it's going to be wet Green Space sometimes um so so that would be more money but if we we're grouping more of the amenities in one area would that save us some money because we're all if we're on one water line here versus running one to the north for I think we had the warming house and the kind of so so that come off where where that water line is it comes out if you can see that's the black line okay uh so that's currently where the Stu is and so uh just running off of that is pretty easy and not as expensive the the money that I was trying to avoid is the trunk sewer line is is for a whole development pulling that into the park whereas we already have these pulling it off of it is a lot less expensive um but that would be a good question for Kevin in terms of the cost it was it was Kevin and the maintenance folks that were bringing it to our attention that uh these things exist and we can tap into them a lot cheaper than trying to pull them through so I don't know anything about those costs but it sounds like they're expensive should we think about putting more of the amenities towards that trunk sewer line then or is this pretty efficient as it is so that's that's why I was saying the the pulling the sewer line through the lower level flooding area would be less expensive to pull that one sewer line than to pull all the dirt into that area and bring the dirt up to a out of the flood plane yeah yeah okay can I make a quick comment this one okay yes but I'm going to ask that you hop up to the podium only because I've gotten noticed that some people can't hear it so just no my one my one thing with this one is I like the parking lot and its proximity to the things I think families with kids will use but um the playground being kind of on the opposite side of that stuff from those te- ball fields I mean I'm just remembering long ago t-ball lots of kids kids on the playground kids and now it's separated and that feels like it's too far that you could have you know somebody's three-year-old child running away from watching t-ball to the playground and it's a long ways and that would be my only comment about that Mr chair could I ask one thing I I'm sure that my city clerk who is paying attention to this right now is rolling over and pulling her hair out and going uh our new city administ Ator needs to get his stuff in a pile uh as as folks have comments procedurally wise we need to ask them to come up and say their name and their address uh just for the record So Pro process-wise I'm I'm failing you I apologize I'm learning and growing I've been here three months so uh it we we do want to hear the feedback and and uh address the chair and the chair will allow that to happen uh but make sure that we come up for the record to uh say your name and your address and then your comments thank you and I just got a smiley face so I think I'm out of the doghouse add one thing to that go ahead I think that's a valid concern um I think some of the original idea of having a playground splash pad and some sort of structure kind of all centralized was that if you have kids of maybe different ages that you could be in that structure and keep an eye on your little one in the splash pad your slightly older one in the playground and slightly older one playing t-ball um it would probably be important to see exactly what those measurements are but I think that was maybe some of the underly design choice for that something I would note as well uh the current location for the playground is right here where the basketball court is uh the t-ball fields are shown approximately where they're located currently and then the playground is down here so there is the building in the way um but it's it appears to be about the same distance give or take but I can see where the building would be a point of concern yeah and I still it's still like the where it currently is as far like from the road and stuff that's my only looking at the proximity there it's yeah I think the measurement and and what screening SL fencing would be important move to the next all right so in this concept uh once again we have six ball fields but they're um we're keeping the three Eastern Fields so lion Snider and Meister stay so essentially the whole eastern part of the park stays relatively untouched in this concept we've moved a lot of the features towards the middle south on the south half of the existing clber Lea so the playground The Pavilion the splash pad the pickle all courts are all towards the center of the park so this gets a lot of the activity away from the roads uh brings the utilizes the current Entrance Road but brings it in to more the center of the park so the parking lot uh can be used for the Taki the pickle ball playground Splash Pad ball fields and soccer so some of the fields are more um to the edge closer to the road uh this does again include the Regional Trail but there's a do in it or some angles going around Linfield um and then the Regional Trail head is located next to the new large line so this concept does have some of the facilities that need the water and sewer lines a little farther away but it also leaves the existing facilities in place so that you know they those can be used as is and you're not rebuilding those facilities and then the pickle ball and some of the louder uses are away from the are is there no tennis in this and it says two tennis on there but I didn't I thought the one of the disadvantage of this one didn't have tennis court that's a mistake they're not tennis I see a spot next to the basketball courts where so this space where the existing tennis courts are today um was identified as not the best location for tennis is that correct um so there is if tennis is desired we were unsure on we knew pickle ball was desired but we were not sure how much tennis is desired if that is a desired use we could definitely add that in somewhere this area got excuse me sir actually excuse me sir if you have a question if you wouldn't mind go up to the podium state your name and address my question thank [Applause] you so I like how everything's Central here but we are increasing the cost right of running the water trunk all that we also have a longer drive to get to the main parking lot with kids running around on all these fields so that's somewhat of a concern too I like how the first two plans had them right off the main road which is I think where they should be yeah I would have concerns I I think um our engineer would say that we'd have to pull that trunk line sewer across rather than tap in and bring it North just from a development perspective it it would make sense that that would be a catalyst yeah or as he would say a Nexus for us to do that the word he' used yes sir if you would mind right do yes it name and address Lov 6951 jubert way thank you um I just wanted to address the interest in tennis um I play tennis my wife plays tennis our kids play tennis then 12 kids in the neighborhood within a mile R play tennis as well so I like the tennis player yes do you are you able to play on the tennis court that has lines double it's not I we don't cuz it's a little sketchy yeah sure yeah but if we had lines for both pick ball and Tennis you we' still use the tennis without issue okay good to know I'd also like to note because I don't know if you guys are aware but we did end up closing the tennis courts due to safety reasons it's good to know should have done that two years ago thank you appreciate good to know sure as another tennis player I wholeheartedly agree agree with everything you said yep noted so I I would if I may chair ask a question of Gabby um is it worthwhile to consider then instead of exclusive pickle ball courts because on a on a tennis court you can put two pickle ball temp courts uh and so you could have two tennis courts and have four pickle ball courts multi-use in terms of uh good use and good stewardship is that something worthy of consideration in my experience I've Heard lots of pickle players don't like that they like the dedicated pickle ball courts so I would encourage some stakeholder input if you have a group of pickleball players and tennis players to get together and agree upon that or if this commission wants to give a direction um just in our experience designing these we have been doing lots of courts around the cities recently and our experience has been all the pickle ball players that we've met with really strongly prefer the dedicated pickall courts so I affirm that was my experience too I just wanted to the m the multiuse uh has became contentious which is why we went exclusive right and you said those were temporary Nets and stuff I I like the idea of having separate vol and or sorry a tennis and a pickleball courts being their separate dedicated spaces so it it operated commissioner on a on a trust basis we had a box there with temp Nets in there and when people came out they opened it up they set the temp Nets out high level of trust they used them and then when they got done they put them away we didn't have any problems with it interestingly enough uh because nobody wants to mess with the pickle ball players I'm just [Laughter] saying yeah they they they they took a high level of ownership took care of the space and uh and people left it alone and it worked that way for 3 years almost four years and then we went to exclusive because uh it it became contentious uh and and then we went and we had some that were multi-use in a different area tennis courts and we made them exclusive tennis so that uh because people do like to do their Sports [Applause] yeah one of the things I have a hard time with option A it doesn't look like have a lot of time like we can't change the space over time like at least B and C you've got Open Spaces in the middle of the park that theoretically you could put in more pickle ball or more tennis in a future state so that's one of the things when I looked at the plans it was nice that I like the fact that the we could kind of evolve the park with that space the um BNC I'm sure you can bring some of those into the other yeah [Applause] please I've been involved in building tennis courts versus resurfacing tennis courts and it's way cheap resurfacing so if it's not have tennis versus resurfacing the existing ones for cost eff efficiency that makes sense it would aot versus build one first right thank you in discussions with our public work staff I don't think there is salvaging that time cour one thing that we did not include in any of the concepts but we did discuss with staff is that there are some communities that are building pickle ball or tennis or basketball courts within hockey rinks uh right now your hockey rink is not paved but if you were to pave the hockey rink that could be easier to flood in the winter because it's a paved even surface and then you could have the Dual use with the pavment being used for basketball I had three different kinds in Chaka and I agree that it was really nice to have multi-use and when we were resurfacing the pickle ball quarts we actually striped pickle ball quarts inside the hockey rank so that they could play pickle ball in it for part of the Season problem the only thing I think about like with the pickle ball and and of course living in Cork for all your life people come up and they never say Judy when is the tennis courts coming in that's like when are the pickle ball courts coming and they said bellweather has overgrown their pickle ball courts so it's just impossible to get on and they can't wait till ours are ready so yeah we probably don't even have enough for current demand but the market is adjusting PS and paddles is open and other places like that are going to provide more so and I mean tennis is important to people that play tennis but these guys are in I mean there's a lot of people that are it's growing you can probably move to the slide with showing the yeah so tonight we're looking for direction on if there's taking notes on some of the comments tonight on what's preferred um but if there's a direction to move forward with one of these or combination that would be helpful so we can refine these to The Next Step either one or two that we can refine and get costs for and then compare those uh at the next meeting and then move forward with one of those following that can you give us any idea of the cost especially with the the water and sewer like is C the most expensive or is it go from cheapest to more expensive the only reason I ask is because if we have an extra half million dollars just for sewage yeah and we're going to miss out on some other amenities because of that well that that make a very good decision so we did talk about developing costs and um I felt like we weren't at a point where we could develop cost because these are while they are scaled appropriately they are still conceptual so we do not have a survey for the site so if we're looking at grading we would be guessing a little bit based on the topography and liar data that's um at the county on the county mapping [Applause] um I my guesstimate is that um you know for this one you're building in some area you're removing a lot of existing facilities that are in use today so while it may be closer to utilities you also have to rebuild facilities um to the West so this is a lot of soil moving and utilities throughout the entire Southern of the site C is moving not really touching the Eastern side so it's less soow moving and a more concent area it could be you know six to one half doz other um like Jay said with the concept B There is some concern with this being in a lower area but it is closer to some of the utilities as well so it's really hard to say which is more um I think we could look closer at the concepts looking at the previous concept there was a cost estimate and a lot of I'd say most of the cost was in Paving and utilities very little into the the facilities and so you're going to have that either way and they have had the um facilities up in this area so we're not even showing I guess it's probably closest to see as to where they the facilities um but it's hard to know without getting some more data and then working with um the engineers to you know Define what those utility costs actually are okay thank you would your your concern about C like when I saw C that was um by far my favorite just because everything's concentrated would your concern about the road which I do agree with change if you know we put it into the left of those soccer fields right and just kind of a straight shoot right to it there you know and you can even move the soccer fields over but that way it's just straight shot you have everything concentrated you keep the Eastern side as much as it currently is um I just when I think of going to a space like this having that parking lot right in the middle and you're not having to walk really far to get to wherever you're going is probably most ideal that's my opinion but I'd be leaning towards option b with the caveat at the play ground is not too close to that road and ideally it'd be on the same side of the The Pavilion as the other kit activities so the um uh the t-ball I like how the lots are closer to the main road like I get what you're saying John you want to have everything Central everything's right around it but you also have a lot in the middle of everything so safety but also you're staring at a lot which is the least pretty of everything in the park so if we can push it to the side I'd prefer that what if what do you think about it was like option I like the left side of option b I like the right side of option A like it all I give you a third like what I like is the you have that open space you can I like that too but but the playground and the amenities and the parking lot like on the left so I think when I look at these um if we're considering all of them that's kind of where I land is I like where the playground is the splash bads a parking lot of a but I like to would prefer to convert one of those baseball fields into more open space like that so that's I see you're saying yeah so we lose a baseball field on a get the more green space but then keep all the facility layout on a and avoid the concerns around the lowly changing lines toade as much and then if it was an option to put like pickle balls in the um hockey rink they'd be right next to that tennis court so that would kind of be like a netted sport area too rather than just being like you said off the road that is a unused area three of those things half of the year if that's not not the option chair could I could I propose something that I that I see happening uh so so I I heard keeping Green Space and so the the Green Space option of B gives lots of Alternatives plus if we wanted to have a large Gathering maybe a large concert or something like that that gives us a lot of potential and flexibility we can make future choices there too uh and and and then the the amenities area around a what I heard you saying is that keeps us out of the low ground it also addresses some of the concerns about that space uh the question that I have is is the value of of lion's field and potentially the open space that is an option b that is a gathering space right there uh we could consider putting that in liance field area so you've got flexibility for it because the times like one of the things that has come up in conversations is potentially a tree lighting yeah it's not going to be flooded unless we have another winter like we have this year but but with a dry one uh and and we keep Schneider Field and in the space that is currently Meister field we shift closer to the utilities the um hockey rank and and and warming house and and those things so so like a hybrid of all three with a tweak capturing what what I heard each of you saying was important and then potentially the the alternative that I'm throwing out there is there might be a better way to use that open space that's currently lion field that allows us more flexibility there as well so did did I hit what you guys were did I hear you correctly yeah I I think that hit on a lot of what what we were talking about is there anything else that we're one for cost I I'm assuming you're kind of factoring that in right yeah because that that's see that's one of my biggest concerns is so much unknown there is it's really hard to decide but I know open space is generally cheaper stay close the utilities is generally cheaper so yeah I think that hits on everything um so uh what are you looking for us you don't want to just pick one right so is the plan to take all these ideas and then come up with maybe one more yep yes so I think if there's anything in particular and I've heard a few things and Jay just reiterated some of those that you like about each of the concepts then we'll take that input and develop something that works and fits well together and then once we go through the process of a survey and refining the schematic design into design development we can value engineer it to make sure it takes advantage of the existing topography and the utilities okay so there's none of these that we could rule out entirely right now right based on all of our kind of combinations just to make our job easier yeah to rewatch this me and to get comments but yeah I would roll out a playground at the bottom like that pieces of each we right but one whole we can't rule out anything full concept at this point okay so this is pretty irrelevant but we there have been talk about the the meat locker and the closed Tavern right right at the intersection of 10 and 50 was there any point in the discussion where you said you know if we had that corner we could do something really wonderful I think we said like made one comment about it and then dismissed it we did so we didn't consider it okay we talked about the views from that corner that I mean we drive by it it doesn't it it doesn't it seems just like an odd odd piece it doesn't really work any better as a park than it would as a a closed couple building couple buildings commissioner if if I could there there actually is a developer that has a proposal for the space uh that that they've been working uh I I can't say much more than that but uh I I'm hoping that it won't look like it does uh for much longer well does say something about our rural character you know yeah and then the other the other thing is this is really pretty wacky but there is there is one lot along 10 sitting there and I I don't know I don't know the history of that lot but boy you know it somebody lives there it's it's their home if that should become available would that be something the city should consider purchasing that's a good idea I think it's a I thank you which one it's it's the middle oh yeah the big sign that says turn doesn't really serve it's not a great home lot because it's got got all these kids playing stuff all summer long and and and I think the guy's about ready to throw a rocks at cars to turn around in his driveway sign out there yeah so yeah I think that that really should should should be part of corkran parks the one thing that I like is I do like C and I do like B but I like all the ball fields in C and I really don't want to see them renamed they're always going to be Meister they're always going to be Schnider and they're always going to be Lions no matter what you put in there you can rename your new ones but the old ones I don't want to see them renamed I would agree that's part of our history do we have comments can we even take comments from Michelle or nothing's okay is the amphitheater currently there no that that would be a new okay okay yeah CU one of my only thoughts I didn't said earlier but was just how far away that is from kind of any parking lot but um so do you need a motion from us or you just take our comments and you can work with that okay we can move to there's a couple more you thought you were done let's keep going okay so I know Park standards are on the agenda following this but uh we talked about how this park fits into the larger system so some potential ideas to consider uh future planning future growth and then um understanding how city park and the facilities within it fit within the larger system some of the further tasks en visioning that could be done contining to evaluate Trends um you know taking input so seeking input from the community as well as the parks and Sals Commission on Trends and then park facil park and facility distribution and access so as the community grows making sure people have access to facilities whether that's through Trails or walking within their neighborhood to facilities um also adjusting programming as needed and as more uh people come into the community planning for ongoing maintenance and New Growth so asset management looking at what are all the facilities as you add new facilities making sure that longterm the planning for maintenance and upkeep of those facilities uh maintaining Partnerships so utilizing River Park district henan county and other local organizations that you currently partner with um to provide either programming or partner on amenities seeking input like I said and then developing a vision plan for the system as you grow you know making sure that you're uh representing the identity the rural character some of those key ideas that are in the comprehensive plan and then making sure the park standards meet those that Vision so go the next slide so next steps is we'll take the input I'll compare notes with staff we will refine these Concepts and then come back not sure if it'll be the next meeting or another meeting to review the refined concept we'll have a little more detail in terms of costs and then following agreement on a preferred concept we would begin to develop the construction documents ideally this would be a 2025 project and this time you're hearing it from them so that's all I have thank you thank you appreciate it very [Applause] helpful all right moving on to Unfinished Business Park standards discussion this might be be a good opportunity to take public comment okay well for this specific topic yeah because I think there's quite a few people who are who here who are interested in speaking all right well then let's take some public comment just uh stand up say your name address let us know what you're thinking my name is Katherine Grievous I live at 6747 Old Sturbridge Drive um and I know we're here to talk about the overall policy but I may end up inserting a few things that are specific to the um open space Park to the east of oldster bridge um so the first thing is a general public policy thing I think it would be great to have a set kind of guidelines for a naming convention um for these spaces I think they need to be moved from the developer name as quickly as possible even if it's another working title because using the developer name even if they did donate the land makes it exclusive makes it seem like it's attached to that so maybe calling the one to the east of Old Sturbridge um like the southeast open space park for now um might be something but it would be good just to have a policy that talks about how these are named um I love the I love the wildf flower Park you know name it's not spec it's specific to the park but not to what's around it and this one I keep I've told some of the neighbors who are here I think we should just name it owl Hollow or something like that because those owls lately those bar dolls have been really noisy um so that's that's the first kind of General thing but um a little bit specific to where we are now um I also think as part of the standards I love that you're going going off of something I mean these standards that are here now are the the basis for standards I think are really good things um I think open space Parks um the ones like the one in the Southeast area I think we really have to look carefully at motorized things that can be in that kind of space um there is a snowmobile trail there now I don't know how heavily it's really used um but I'd hate to see this area taken over by um like ATVs and things that decide to go off Trail uh I have a a neighbor who's not here tonight and it's not this neighbor it's like two or three neighbors before that thought it'd be a great idea to run their ATV through their land and it's that land in that area is just wet underneath it's just it's Clay it's Mucky it's wet and you know this has been maybe 15 years since they ran up and down and you can still see the divots they've never really recovered so I think we need to be careful with motorized access um and and some of my neighbors that are here tonight they can tell you stories about over the years people who have been back there um and how they got stuck in the mud and things like that so I'd like to not see a lot of motorized vehicles in the heavily wooded open space areas uh I like the idea in this that talks about neighbor input because the neighbors two of them are here tonight who back up to that property um but all of them along that property have been you know know it really well and know what's back there um and I think you'll find that around any of the open space designated eventual open space properties maybe in our area a little bit more because it's next to a a neighborhood that's been there 50 years um but I'd like that a lot of neighborhood input into these Parks um no fires whatever whatever happens no idea of having little spaces along the trail where people could come back and set up their little Grill in a fire there is no I mean it's wet the ground is wet um but there are no city services um they're at the edge of rinia but they're not in our neighborhood um and then the final thing I think access is important and at a a trail head for like an open space park it would be great if there were some kind of place to get water a bathroom those kinds of things but now I'm talking I'm going back specifically to the open space that abuts our neighborhood um we don't have water we don't have have sewer we don't have stormm sewers and you know we're unlikely to get them though I did tell councilman Nicholls that it's probably just as expensive to put in the new septic system as it would be to bring sewer to a house in the neighborhood uh because we're all treed and you have to do a lot of tree work um so I think we have to look at when access points that can be put in maybe when a development goes in and key off of those in order to have those kinds of facilities and this is like an almost 40 acre area though a lot of it is water um or you know marshy boggy uh you know it it it would need to have that because just don't have them in our neighborhood at one point on one of the comprehensive plans it showed sorry interupt but uh we allow five minutes yeah um so you're just going past that now so I'll let you finish up okay they showed access from our te and with a parking lot the problem with that is that drains the neighborhood um because we don't have any storm sewers all the water goes through there and the water from from the other third that's south of that goes into the marsh below and drains into a stream I think it's a county ditch it's got a number that runs behind or through the the open space area so we got to watch for drainage I me it's corkin right okay thank you thank you very much yeah I appreciate the comments anybody else rep public comment I think we're good so you're gonna tell us some things now yeah you don't let's do it wonderful so as Katie pointed out thank you for referencing the packet I'm glad to know people are reading it thank you uh so included in there I did propose taking from the previous document that commissioner Anderson and former commissioner uh Myer put together and I just lost my entire packet uh I tried to put in some of the ideas that they had as well as some additional areas of consideration for Park standards and these can certainly be added to adjusted that's the whole point of bringing them forward to you all tonight so to start us off collaboration so making sure that we're highlighting the collaboration among the various organizations that intertwine with the city of corkran so the Northwest area JC the corkran Lions Three Rivers park districts these are the organizations that we work pretty closely with they either provide us donations or they help facilitate Trails so just really highlighting that collaboration uh connectivity so similar to my comment about Three Rivers local and Regional Trail connections so making sure that the parks are friendly to parking and Road access but also connected locally through trails and people can use multiple means to get to where they want to go um landscaping and natural features so retaining those large trees having distinct natural boundaries um buffers vegetation maybe some wild flowers Etc um and then generally flat topography for neighborhood parks and we'll get more specifically into the park classifications but something to note along that those lines uh open Gathering areas so this has been something that I've heard pretty frequently from both the commission and I think Council as well there's value in the small large and Community GA Gatherings and so it's something we should be considering as we continue to move forward just so that we do have those Open Spaces that people can come together uh it really helps create that Community feel uh site amenities I specifically put shading on there for council member Nichols and Gary thank you sorry commissioner urer thank you um um I think that is something that we have missed in Wildflower Park and I think it's important that we take that learning experience and Carry It Forward um another thing is seating and bike racks those were also two things that we may have missed in that Park that have since are since getting updated uh signage and lighting so lighting for safety reasons and just comfortability and being able to see everything signage for ability to find your way around it could be educational signage I know we've had a conversation about that with uh the wild flowers at Wildflower Park so just keeping those in mind as we move forward as well as rules um something that we've noticed recently is there's a lot of dogs off leash and creating a bit of a mess at the park uh so making sure that we have signage that appropriately reflects hey here's the rules please make sure you're following them just let people are W because maybe it's just a lack of knowledge um and then theme based options so this is also something we've explored a little bit uh so engaging amenities and visual appeal making sure that it's something that people want to see and that it looks nice but also potentially themed playgrounds so an example is Wildflower Park kind of that Clubhouse Vibe um and then we've got city park that currently has that dinosaur aesthetic so just something to keep in mind as we're continuing the planning process is that something you want as part of the planning um some other examples could be agriculture Natural History Wilderness um and I did get some additional feedback from council member Nichols for additional examples I did not put all of them on the slideshow but this is a quick overview summary um if you guys wanted to put a lot of examples into this we certainly could I thought this just kind of gave a high level here are some options and doesn't limit it so much uh continuing on to park classifications more specifically we've got neighborhood parks currently in the document that exists is 5 to 20 acres flexible to be repurposed as needs change so uh commissioner urger I think it was you during the city park discussion you had mentioned that you liked the Green Space because it provided a chance to expand and be flexible it was like you read the packet uh adequate parking is also something that I've heard the commission talk about a lot and I can tell you from my perspective at city park when soccer's going on adequate parking is something that is huge um buffering between parks and nearby homes so again that vegetation that difference in basically showing that this is the Parkland and here is the neighborhood home and then interactive features promoting social interaction and Recreation uh that could also Encompass the open Gathering space because that can be used as a play area whether it be you know soccer or just general running around playing tag so that is what I have for neighborhood parks open space Oh no go ahead do we want to take breaks in between slides I know that Gabby stopped and she let you guys talk I normally go through them all and then I just let you guys give me everything at the end what is the route you want to go how many slides do you have left maybe like four three are we okay waiting till the end MH okay sorry take good notes I mean you could certainly jump in uh open space Parks currently it says 20 to 100 acres uh with a focus on conservation and sustainability I think I've heard everyone loud and clear we love the trees let's keep the trees as much as possible let's try and conserve that Natural Area and that focus and maybe incorporate some educational opportunities again that's the conversation of the educational signage at Wildflower Park telling people about hey here are some wild flowers that you can find in here um and then infrastructure with minimal environmental impact so the comment about bathrooms and uh Trail heads being mindful of the environment at the same time I'm almost done I promise community playfields so this was something I did take from the old document Playfield should be a minimum size of a regulation soccer field I think that's something that we could look at and maybe Recon consider because we don't use a lot of regul regulation soccer fields um but again keeping in mind that open Green Space I think is very important and then a variety of sports fields and courts with appropriate amenities to support them so restroom seating parking Etc but not just having a baseball diamond maybe incorporating pickle ball or incorporating tennis or making sure we're having that variety to meet the diverse needs of the community so linear parks and Trails making sure that it's accommodating multiple user types walking jogging biking not limiting it to strictly Walkers or bikers um parking and Trail heads as necessary so making sure that those who are trying to access the park or the trail from somewhere else can park there and then go on their way uh mixed use areas along corridors for additional recreation activities when applicable so having that green space in being able to hammock or picnic something that yeah you might be on the trail but you might need a little break and you can pop off with your family to the side and just kind of gather this is my last slide uh I'm looking for additions adjustments or eliminations on both the proposed systemwide considerations as well as the proposed standards for part classifications if there's things that you think should be edited updated added removed I'd love to hear it I would like to get this updated and then bring it back in the we're in March right now so April meeting and then get kind of a final yep that looks good and then we can pass it off to the council thoughts just on the game plan and then we can go into thoughts on specifics and if you want me to go back to certain slides I can do that if it's easier to you tell me the end goal is to get a a working document that we reference every time we have a park right almost like a checklist right ideal so there's a little more guidance right yep did I miss it but do we have a naming convention in here we do not okay we don't currently have a naming policy I will say this much in the last month I have saved at least Seven Cities naming documents because I kind of figured this conversation would be coming um and I have been in communication with a few cities on how they go about it I think it is a topic of discussion that we should have in the near future as of right now I don't know that I have the materials sure to provide you everything y could we go could you bring up wildfower Park on a map I sure can I wrote some comments and it's it's um you know we're learning learning how to do this Wildflower Park was the first new park in Corker in a very long time and we were pretty excited about it pretty pretty excited about it and I think as a as a neighborhood park it functions pretty well but looking back on it that what you wanted yes that's that's wonderful um the the Northeast part of that Park isn't really a park it's a wide Trail and that comes really all the you know even further down than that um and so it's some acreage but it doesn't function like a park there's nothing you can do there except walk through it and that's that's a trail and you know we just didn't catch it the other piece is that the park the wide Trail runs right along that row of houses and um it those really should be part of the park if you take out those first those uh five or six or all of them along that row that Park would be would be a lot more functional it would be more than they would you know increase the size significantly that's developer money they I mean they're invested in putting as many houses as possible but um but even even so especially that those first couple houses just they just kind of chew up the park and then the last thing is that the space is not level it drops off significantly which really limits the kind of use that we can we could have for it to put in a half court basketball would be involve a fair amount of filling significant amount of filling so it you know it's a I like it it's fun the kids have a good time there but we could have done better and so that's a lot of lot of my comments uh that stuff about a convex area if you take two lines in the pick two points in that park and draw a line between them it should stay in the park I think that's just common sense and we just you know we just missed it um so uh I think that would be that's that's why I've written that those standards they added on so that when we look at a park in a sketch plan when it comes through the first time we can say you know it's not close we need we need more acreage we need to not have houses line ringing the park we need there's no offsite par off onsite parking here and I think that's worked out well enough there is parking along the along the street street parking and that's that's worked well we didn't we didn't need some additional parking but um you know if it's little bigger Park than we than we might want it it's a neighborhood park so it's four folks in the neighborhood they can walk and bike there so that that works pretty well but if it's a bigger Park then we need better parking I agree this someone answered my question I was going to bring up we had overall sizeer neighborhood park of 5 to 20 acres and in my mind when I think of wildfire Park it's that space in the top left when you talk about neighborhood park and the rest like you said I consider Trails So when you say maybe this whole are is 5 Acres it's 5.13 okay that makes sense okay I but it might be worth considering how much we should especially on the lower end of that allow to be travs as part of a neighborhood park and the time to catch it is when they come with a sketch B yeah it is a nice Trail but it's it's a very nice Trail but it is a trail and the other one you didn't bring up along that I do like about this we have like dog waste type um stations along this which is really I think helpful we don't right we do have both sides at the entrance or right in the middle of that te so that's another amenity that's helpful when you talk about just amenities like dog was stations or even at a small Park like this good I will not I think the HOA does have some dogway stations throughout so I don't know if that was something that was intended to be maintained through the HOA or but it's a good thing to consider moving forward especially for areas that might not have HOA maintenance I.E Community or city park yeah keeps dog owners honest yeah that's just easy if it's righta one suggestion overall is this is a lot so maybe what would be helpful is to tackle these one at a time like we could have a whole meeting I think we have on signage and we could a Mee on Park rule Park classification naming conventions I don't think we'll be able to get that figured out tonight so maybe start parsing this out so every meeting we could tackle one of these items or something I will say naming is normally it's own Standalone policy so I don't know that it would necessarily be included in here um S I would say this is kind of very broad like hey make sure you're considering these items was the vision I guess I had and then we can get more in depth with policies specific for like naming and wayf finding okay if that makes sense I think this just kind of provides I don't want to say a starting point because it's more in- depth than just a a starting point but it it does give a place to okay did we meet this yep did we get this did we consider benches shading right right y okay but if there are policies you do want to see updated or created way finding naming is what I'm hearing so far let me know if there's other ones yeah I mean the themes would be that'd be a good one to dig into that a little more um what are the themes what are the rules around it does every Park have a theme all that kind of stuff um but I'm glad on here the other one that wasn't on here and maybe it's part of a different policy was making sure the trails that are connected to the park have very specific indications like we saw Wildflower Park a lot of the crosswalks around that aren't really marked as crosswalks or weren't until recently so I don't know if that makes sure the naming or the crossing conventions alongside neighborhood parks or these other Parks they specified in our and we have a policy for crosswalks so I think part of it is correct me if I'm wrong is dependent on if it meets those thresholds and if it would be helpful I can certainly send that out no I remember looking at that before but okay as long as it's that's in there rather than in here that's fine okay yeah we included it in U development process so that it gets picked up because the two examples of where we had to install recently one in R video one and B weather are things that probably could have been included by the developer had we thought of it and had the policy at the time um so I would think with a lot of these you know look at city park might be something different but um for most of your parks in a new development I think you'd be able to get it accomplished by that and so were you going to draft sorry like what you have in here are kind of just bullets around out like natural artificial shade with intend to then draft proposal around what that guidance would be as the next step or is this meant to be as much detail as we'll go into the I think it gets a little challenging once we go into shading and such because you kind of have to see the space to know what you need so if I go too in depth then we're looking at something that might not be applicable to every Park so I was trying to keep it high level enough that we can consider it and it's on the radar but not too detailed where we're going deep into the woods and requiring stuff that might not be helpful in certain areas and the other one that we had talked in the past was like coverings around like ouses and restrooms yes especially in windy areas that's an important one we have lots of those it sounds like in City Park even windy areas so around like Porta uh something else to note um under linear parks and trails the standard for city trails is 8ot wide 20ft easement I think that would be beneficial to put that in there as well um just as a reminder we do have Trail standards as well but it might serve a good purpose in this [Applause] document [Applause] you're telling me I did that good that you guys have no thoughts find that hard to believe well I guess what so what I'm thinking as I read through them I like how you know they're guard rails right like you're saying it's guard rails it's kind of to keep us in line right so a lot of the verbiage is you know a line connecting any two points should be the topography should be you know it's it's not must be right and I think that's important to just throughout the whole document to have to make sure that that that the verbage is is such that it still allows a little bit of wiggle room but keeps you the guard rails where you should be so I guess that's why I don't really have a lot to say against it because it's still somewhat yeah which is okay I think on the flip side of that if this is guiding like new developers and minimums that they have to hit that's where I would want to be more like strict about if you anticipate volume to be X we should have at least seating x per seating or like like I said the coverings or the bathrooms I think part of this is making sure I think part of this is making sure new development comes in these are the minimums that they would need to be doing so something to note that developers don't generally plan the parks they don't generally the most that they do is grade the land and put in the trails so that's this will be more helpful to the commission rather than the developer with the exception of maybe the acreage and the any two points connecting okay within the park and Tom oh sorry commissioner Anderson yes I'm so sorry I did not mention that in the slideshow but I did include it in the document because I thought it was a very good point and I can certainly see a park where where there would be some reason why it doesn't exactly meet that convex area but but it should you know that's the way Parks should look they should be generally in a in Con in a space a usable space yeah yeah yeah so then if there are any in here that are non-negotiables then if there's a way to maybe indicate that somehow unless it's already indicated somewhere in asterisk or something but you know we would decide that those are non-negotiables and then somehow indicate it that way but otherwise it's seems pretty thorough are there any that you want me to change the wordings let it is more non-negotiable I think every Park's going to be so different it's important to leave it open and then if we come across something that every Park seems to be missing can add that in and I do want to take a second to thank commissioner Anderson and former commissioner Myer this this I I went off of that and then I just kind of blew it up a little bit but that was a very fabulous starting point so thank you thank you thank you for your hard work and dedication to the city of coron could I ask uh just with the microphones for the recording I I got a note that that they can't hear everybody and so if we can make sure that we're close enough to the microphones when you talk that make sure that we pick you up thanks or just yell nice and loud like I do so I'll add in a few items um the highlighting again the way finding theme signage adding that 8ot wide 20 foot easement for the trail um do it sounds like I should be adding the dogway stations as a consideration for site amenities if you could have I guess yeah I I mean at least as a consideration keep it on the radar uh the portapotty sltr enclosures M and ensuring that the should be language remains intact where necessary do we consider like water phountain in here I didn't really see that even for like neighborhood parks is that something you'd like to see at a neighborhood park I would have more hesitation with neighborhood parks only because generally cost of running water running the water but I so so the only other thing I'd say uh when you start to put amenities like that in the park is then as you hit seasonals you have to blow them out you have to maintain them and sometimes people unfortunately will vandalize them uh and then so so you end up with some Logistics overhead uh I I agree that it's really nice to have uh just want to make sure that you're calculating as a potential risk and cost as as you think about so if you are going to put them in a neighborhood park you want it to be in a hi trffic area that has a high level of visibility so that nobody is going to do anything bad to those amenities uh if you have them where people can get away with doing things I found that they will also factor in that most kids these days carry around about 10 gallons of water with them at all times kids and adults and adults yeah right now the a lot of the parks are Central the neighborhoods might know in our future plans a lot of neighborhoods are going to like have to at least like the for the 2040 plan there's some that won't have it directly so those will be the considerations if there's parks that are like destination places for neighboring neighborhoods that's where it would be nice to elevate the amenities at that Park to accommodate if there is a surrounding neighborhood that are supposed to go to that one and and it's really nice then to tie it with a bathroom tied with a shelter and so that you can activate the space so if you're going to invest in the amenity invest enough in the amenity that it has other features to it so that you can activate that space in a different way and that also gets more eyes on it as well yeah cuz there was a note about like dependent on anticipated use but I think what I'd want to consider is like I said ones that are serving surrounding neighborhoods as well as the one that is directly built in I I did want to draw attention to to one comment that was brought up and this was something that I had to navigate as as my last Community grew and that's just being clear about where and when you are willing to have motorized traffic through your Park spaces this is a really great place to consider that what sort of parks are you willing to because I do think it's appropriate if you want to maintain rural character to have spaces that allow people to do those types of activities but to be clear for folks on where and when they can you know so we want to protect snowmobile trails because that's part of real character but where do we have those and where do you not want snowmobiles to go uh so that you can communicate that clearly usually through signage but you you also need to have a policy in order to trigger that kind of signage that might be worthy of consideration um I had a challenge because we had an Open Water space and we had uh boats on some of it but we wanted we didn't want boats on other parts of it because you don't want motorboats going with paddlers you know uh what the standing board paddlers and and with kayakers and stuff and so how did we we had to clearly put up some signage and some stuff so that you don't have any tragedies on the water yeah we had that discussion a couple weeks ago like golf carts neighboring close to some parks and making clear signage there too for that interaction and when you think about open space Parks is there a spot or an opportunity where you can actually encourage that kind of activity so it it brings people here it it makes them really appreciate I'm seen this is who I am and I can be myself in my community uh it you take a you need a specific kind of land for those to not tear it up or some specific choices so a choice that we made we activated a mountain bike park so that folks would do that in that area and you invest in it and now it's activated and people who want to do that go there instead of if you don't create it they'll create their own where would we classify like a BM or like a mountain bike park or a disc golf park in this scheme how many dis Golf 18 do it matter 18 probably a community park um to the tune of maybe an athletic one or I mean you could probably incorporate it into an open space Park if done okay appropriately and still holding that Integrity of the natural features they show up in their waiters to find their their discs they will as far as mountain bike goes what would you have classified that in shapy I guess uh so we activated unusable space a space that otherwise didn't have a purpose it was kind of scrub Rush area uh for a mountain bike park you need a certain type of topography but you don't want it to be too wet uh and so uh we categorized it as unusable space that we activated it uh and that was interesting it was through a collaborative partnership so it was adjacent to a power plant so Excel Energy had space that they couldn't use and they donated the land for us to activate the space also just wanted to address the other piece uh that she mentioned of the fires is would that fall in the same category as the motorized vehicles like as far as signage I would have to check our ordinances but I do believe that currently fires are not allowed in the parks aside from the areas that are designated so like at city park we do have grills that's a designated area I would have to look into it further but I'm pretty sure just open flame isn't allowed yeah especially if you've seen recently we had red flag just within the last week and and while it is wetland area it would be devastating for us to have a fire uncontrolled go through our spaces uh and and so I think our ordinance relying on that one might be a safe bet and if oh yeah so updating the transportation language do we want to put that under Trails um I'm trying to think of how to incorporate the thoughts into it it's a lot of still reflects what you're looking for we should almost have something that's like a unique unique feur yeah unique features of specific Parks which would be horseback riding snowmobiling a ninja plate set or whatever they call things like that that could be an option because when you think of it's a neighborhood park well you never think of those things but if we have that as a line item then un considerations considerations per part and I apologize for the face after the ninja I think you've all seen the video all right you what you need yes and I don't need a motion because it'll come back to you good all right on to Wildflower Park bike rack options yes give me one second to deal with technology all righty this was something that you have seen in the past uh we discussed a Wildflower Park bike rack there is a donation of $1,500 the installation estimate is about $500 it is included in the donation so removing that and a freight estimate of approximately $200 and it fluctuates depending on where we're getting it from but this is a pretty relatively good average the remaining budget for a bike rack would then be $800 included in your back in your packet are a lot of options with some requests from staff um from a public works perspective they did request a surface mounted bike rack that is Galvanized and 8 to 10 bike capacity moving into into the bike rack options you'll notice that some of them did not have pricing on it uh I hadn't gotten the pricing yet from them and I still haven't gotten the pricing from some of them so they may not be included in the slideshow and I'm just going to keep moving forward without them um so option one and I'm sorry that this is not showing up very well on the screen it's a 5 foot 4 in contemporary bike rack it's got the wiggly humps to it uh option one is 675 you'll notice there's an AST next to it the email that they sent me flipped option one and two which I found quite odd because option two is larger and in the packet it says it costs less because they told me it cost less and I was like that doesn't seem right so I reached out they said yeah no that's not right so these are your more accurate numbers 675 for the 5' 4 in and then 733 for the 7 fo 4 in same kind of visual to it option three is a little more expensive 882 so it is going to be out of the budget but I wanted to include it in case it is something that you're very passionate about maybe I can find an alternative that might be better within the budget but I did look through quite a few so 882 for option three which is I'm trying to move my mouse but you can see the options uh option four 788 and then option five 5 24 and there is a caveat with option five it is more than one of those shown it is two of the pivot bike racks so it would be double the cost for that same design and I did include capacities and pricing in the packet in hopes that you guys read it in advance and I didn't have to include it on the slid to uh option six is going to be the top left over there 269 to 436 depending on how many bikes it holds uh option seven is a range of 538 to 749 again it ranges based on the type if you want the single sided or the double-sided and if custom signage is wanted we're looking at an additional $255 however the custom signage would have to go with the double bike rack so then you're looking at that higher end range plus the cost of the customization and then figuring out what you guys would like to customize it to say uh and then finally option eight can range anywhere from 431 to 892 it's very similar to options 1 and two but on the lower price scale so I wanted to kind of highlight there are other places that offer them part of the reason we went with option one and two on here is because there was a request the those are Burke options the playground is B and there was a request from Public Works of hey if we're going to have to replace anything it might be helpful to keep everything kind of the same brand whether or not it makes that much of a difference um those are those are the options I'm really proposing the other ones that are in there I either didn't get pricing for or there were some under the Doo or darl brand I did get the pricing back for that and it was substantially out of our budget so I can give you some of the pricing on that but I really don't know that it's feasible but I did include it before I had the pricing so I apologize if I got anyone's hopes up I didn't see the nature by cck that's because they also did not give me pricing just need 10 of them yeah get a discount additionally I did have some hesitations to the nature bike rack just because I don't know how many it would really hold and I if I were a gambling woman I would imagine it's probably a higher price point and we'd probably need more than one is it as responsible and feasible probably not so are there any that you want me to go back to are there any that people have a preference towards I like options one simple options one and two would you incorporate eight yeah just a different manufacturer yep but they look pretty similar and one is just cheaper so that's why I asked not a super huge eyesore yeah six and the other more traditional style they just they look really ugly and they break those bars people bend them all they're going to blow I think too considering the size of that Park probably don't need one that has 20 spots on it right yeah could we get away with a 5 foot 4 inch contemporary in option one so if we go option one the price point is going to be a little higher but yeah or option eight whatever that one was that's the same size so option eight will be the Saddleback bike rack it looks it's got the orange in your pack there's a few different options for sizes and I have pricing for all of the sizes in that range um 8.92 is the high end [Applause] so and what's the difference between those and one and two or different manufacturer just the manufacturer okay I didn't know if the material or okay so for the three within your packet for the Saddleback bike uh it's just the one kind of Hump that goes over we would be looking at approximately actually that's the only one she didn't give me uh so five $431 or500 depending on the option you go with again the request was surface mounted so we'd be looking at that higher price point of 500 there's the seven at 623 the nine at 892 I think the seven or nine seems appropriate yeah seven cuz it doesn't break our budget the uh these pictures on the Burke must not go with the capacity because this would compare to the 38 in which only holds five bikes or maybe it would be the seven seven bike and this says 12 capacity this picture here says 12 so that's 12 but if you go to the um Pilot Rock the one that looks the same with the same number of pumps it's seven bikes I'm assuming it's just the picture the to I'm thinking the way that Burke did it they have it I'm gonna switch this over so I think Burke is assuming that two can go on each pole okay whereas I think the Pilot Rock maybe was assuming one on each pool oh sure so I think there's FIB yeah i' lean towards the loop with seven bikes so we can stay under budget I kind of like the the galvanized look although I don't think they had an option to choose a color anyways it was the landscape structures that allowed colors like the metal galvaniz surface mounted we okay with that and we want the seven option option eight but seven in the Pilot Rock yeah maybe we can ask Burke if they'll match pricing and then it would make sense I certainly could try uh would you like me to start with Burk see if I can talk them down the number and then option two is option A that makes sense option so sorry everyone like that this I do need a motion all right would anyone like to make a motion uh for the bike racks so moved I are gonna say work for option one if I can get it in budget go with option one if not go with option eight can we get a second I said