I'll speak for me alone uh I I don't know if I ever I don't know if I personally have ever said a flat rate my my budget budgetary guidelines were increase the budget by inflation and population grow and regardless you know because one thing I think we failed we failed to consider if we said by um that our goal was tax rate has to stay the same is there are going to be years where the value of housing goes down so uh we still have to plow streets if the value of housing goes down so for me like um I wouldn't I I personally have not tied the budget to tax rates as a Clarity of my position gotta So when you say you I'm not included in that that part and it is possible that I have projected that based upon what's happened the last three budgets and the guidance that has been given uh and so um if I've mistaken in that uh we we it's still going to require us to do as staff some analysis and cl get clarification from Council on what the priorities are sure uh right now we haven't received our projection uh tax capacity for uh 2025 yet uh we are projecting that it will be roughly 21.3 million uh and I also understand that Council does not desire to increase our budget by tax capacity that's that was one thing that I heard clearly from the guidance that instead it was a calculation uh because I had mistakenly stated that the budget would increase by increased tax capacity Plus rate of inflation and I was corrected in that misstatement just real quick two last year when we went through this process and stuff too I made the comment that I felt we'll do everything we can to keep it flat but I was nervous over the next two years until things started coming and we started getting the taxes from these new properties and those kind of things indor numbers so nice to keep it flat but I I made the comment it was going to be extremely difficult for two years while we while we grow but we don't get money so I I I agree with John too I think our intent was was to do our best to keep it flat but you can only do so much and then again with inflation valuations of homes everything else that's happening it's pretty pretty foggy crystal ball on our part but I had a question on a statement that I think I heard you make that we were 1.28 million away from being able to have the same tax rate as before we'd have to cut the projected spending by that amount is that what I heard you say so when I'm looking at the general fund expenditure on page 11 of 11 it looks like it's going up in the second to last column by 1.19 million so does that mean that we're projecting to collect fewer taxes than we did last year uh for just a second page 11 of 11 so uh could you please D me in on where you are again on page 11 so it's uh all general fund expenditure bottom of that page yes there's 1.95 million with a 12.1% increase in expenditures planned which seems to be less than the Gap that you had cited at 1.28 million so I wrote 1.28 Million when we so we have done some analysis the updated sheet that you got actually took in when we looked at PD uh there was some overstatements there so it would actually be 1.95 million thank you for okay so those numbers are supposed to be the same correct okay right say I was looking at that I made a statement off my notes that I made at the beginning of the week and uh Matt and I sat down and we sent some updated data after we discussed uh because there had been some over projections for a couple areas for PD he corrected their data and this last sheet that I sent to you yesterday reflects those Corrections my notes were not corrected since those corrections I I've been gone since but it doesn't change that 1.28 it's still 1 195 instead of 1.28 oh okay so okay so that's 12.1% increase yeah but on the revenue side do we do we not know the revenue change based on tax capacity difference exactly since we don't have tax capacity at this point and we don't expect to get it until the 15th uh that's kind of a plug right now it's not a not a solid number uh based on conversations last night that I had with Cammy yle and with the information that we've given her so far the current potential uh was 9.1 million instead of the 8.4 million corre on correct you said 9.5 but but that's going to keep changing in s the 15th until we get locked in oh can I ask ask question what is the population been in the last year so it was projected to be 550 uh it actually came in um at 8,019 so we increased by more than that it was 600 and something I forget the number off the top of my head uh when I did the calculation it was roughly an increase 9% uh and then it depends on which uh rate of inflation we're going to grab because it's bounced around so much in the last 12 months we could we could go 2.3 on the conservative side plus you got last I mean I'm I'm super in tune with inflation num so what would you say it is right now or projected be for 25 Target but is that the I'm in tune with predictions of it there's not a soul on Earth that can be accurate about uh I just used last year's number I don't know I think each person has their own inflation rate but it's it's man I 12 months ago the inflation was 7% That's the thing is so a snapshot number kind it's been an odd inflation it's three or four three or four is a least is a good number and then you you can almost itemize like labor inflation two years ago was 11% and the price of gas was going down but we you know we have I don't think I could stand here and say every single every single budget item has a own inflation rate so we could almost itemize every single thing but we're not going to do that if it's close to a reasonable number for inflation I'm not going to argue around the edges about that so if if Council were recognizing increase in population and whatever we're going to dial in as a rate of inflation uh the 12.1% increase that's projected right now would be within a margin of Errors uh with our present budget but we yeah we can't in in my opinion we well this is a this is fact but I I think about this particular fact in that we don't control the we don't control well we we not only don't control the valuation of homes we actually don't control the actual value of homes so we have to when I do a budget that when most people do budgets they do budgets based on what they spend um and you know if I make 20% more next year that doesn't automatically mean me and my family spend 20% more that number is largely out of my control we can only control the SP so if that were to be council's guidance that's me only me just me everyone else has a turn if if that were to be council's guidance that would change the conversation that I was hoping to have tonight because if we are not looking to cut 1.2 million uh that we need to and instead we can prioritize if in fact it does come in later because it happened last year I understand it last year the forecast that you were working on for initial budget items was more optimistic than what the council or that what the county actually reported so then there was a need then to cut so we'd still have to have those conversations about priorities um but also I want to unpack and make sure that we are in fact aligning our current plan priorities with the council's priorities and there's a few things that that have we have budgeted for that we need Clarity is that in fact what you want us to do uh staff has talked about it considerably uh that that includes Staffing priorities based upon some strategic initiatives for the future that includes U material priorities based upon some things that are happening uh in the city um and so that that I think would be the first point is that will shape the next important conversation about priorities yeah um I I was coming into this with the misunderstanding that you wanted us to maintain a flat rate and so staff has been working very hard in our dialogue and our conversations in order to be prepared to align with that guidance is that the guidance I don't I don't even know that was the guidance that I provided I I'll chime in I would prefer to see it stay flat and I I'm interested to see what we get from the county in terms of final numbers and I a few specific questions as I went through the document but historically our perspective has been that as the city develops the development should be able to fund itself and if we see a need to increase tax rates in order to deal with the growth the city is experiencing to me that's a symptom that growth is no longer being borne by its own projects we're starting to pull on the resources of the rest of the community to fund the needs of the city as it expands and to me that causes me to ask questions about is the development that we're experiencing the right kind of development is it capable of self-funding with the model that we have and do we need to reconsider the way that we are allowing development to proceed in order to ensure that it can self fund that it continues if I could um add to that one of the things that self-funding for some of the infrastructure is way different than the maintenance of that infrastructure and personnel and so as your forecast for your long-term budget uh the increase in our community isn't an equal increase you know so as we add roads uh we can't just have the people that we have maintain those roads it necessitates more equipment it necessitates more people uh and um there are some components of our community that we have an idea of the cost and we haven't done the analysis on is that cost similar to the cost that we have so a road maintenance in Rena is that the same as a gravel road being maintained in the western side of corkrin uh and and then it also raises questions about service levels some communities that have gravel roads have different service level expectations of their gravel roads uh than we do some communities have different service level expectations of their Trails than as we're trying to figure that out what will ours be uh and those service level expectations are also going to have significant budget implications I I don't disagree with anything you said and part of what I was trying to get at is the idea of those maintenance costs does the incremental next mile of housing impose more maintenance cost than it generates in revenue and if that's the case if if they cost more to build out and support then they generate in Revenue I think we need to reconsider our development model and how much residential is counted on to pay for the costs of the city and and maybe we need to do things on the expectation side may we need to do things on how much residential development we allow to happen put some breaks on that and limit it to the rate at commercial industrial is growing so that we can make sure that we can continue to fund at least at the current level of service can I say I agree with that I think you're allowed to no that's right I'm gonna try along good point bring up there we we can go through all the philosophical beliefs and stuff that we have I think you already have an agenda on what are the priorities what aren't the priorities then hash it out line by line which you're talking about it sounds like least a starting point so let's start there never even get started so so we actually if you just go straight to the to the memo that's the easiest way for us to talk through it I kind of like hearing about some of the philosophical things well I do too I just to hear where people are at I think that J kind of look at you it's the CEO of the organization we give you some guiding principles and hopefully we meet otherwise we didn't do a good job of carefully articulating our guiding principles y well interestingly enough this is a philosophical question that we do need to clarify first thing key change uh we're proposing direct Levy to Capital funds and L of transfers from the general fund there's a couple operationally it isn't super significant uh but from a transparency perspective it clarifies very clearly uh to the point that ALS member Nichols was Raising where are our dollars going and so if we have significant uh infrastructure that is requiring capital investment rather than managing that through transfers that's not as evident to taxpayers um having it go Direct into Capital funds um so that's a a request we don't have to confirm it now but I'd ask you to think about it philosophically uh does this align with um value of transparency that we have um transfers aren't super transparent How would how would this be different than what we're doing today uh so it's called out in a different way rather than transferring it to call to to cover it that's the biggest thing so and and then here's how it gives us some flexibility so say for example uh we are having some pressure because of a lower projected um Levy uh now as we're going into a year and we needed to do significant capital investment now we include that for a bond rather than trying to do it internally and then stop not doing other things this aligns with what you had communicated about the value of putting people first so as I'm trying to cut up what is our operating budget versus what are the other things that we do so this clarifies for the most part that we're trying to get our Levy or our general Levy down to our general everyday this is how we do business and then as we have other things that we need to do for capital investment uh that's in addition or adjacent to does that make sense um so I'm thinking about it from the perspective of a typical homeowner when they get their onepage letter from the city breaking down what the city's expenses are and what their ,000 is allocated against so they would see a specific set of bonds that are part of that list is that how that would appear to them so would be broken down into debt service Levy General Levy and capital L okay so not quite at the level of detail but still yeah so the bonds usually fall under Debt Service Levy uh but but we execute those bonds to Capal does that make sense yes I think a change from history would be previously the P was cut up by Department as opposed to Capital and people and um and this would change the landscape of what it looks like per Department because for instance public works as heavy Capital expenses the the gravel the equipment um so when you look at it from an operation Levy they're have fewer people but Public Safety would is lower on the capital and larger on the people part of it so if you have Capital extracted from it and you're looking at City operations that part of it all of a sudden Public Works piece of the pie is going to shrink substantially because there are less people more their their Capital expenses went to the Capital Public Safety is going to look like you know 50 or 60% of the P because it's people more people intensive covering the 24-hour scale but Capital intensive so there would have to be context provided to you know if you're going to change the way it's been presented instead of just doing departmental that if you're going to break up capital and people here's how the people breaks down here's how your Capital breaks down I I think there were context needed for people who are looking at the same document year over year yeah that's helpful thanks man and and operationally uh it makes it scalable like like it's a lot easier to make decisions about Capital decisions are we going to build that thing road infrastructure are we going to improve that thing this year versus right now with it being included in the general Levy uh we're competing with boys and toys the like phrase what's the downside of making the change uh part of its Optics like Matt was talking about making sure that the people understand so that people understand because because I'll just call this out it's going to look then like public safety's budget is an even bigger piece of our general l p so that that we need to communicate then that a significant portion of the Public Works budget then is happening in the capital ly let's say we need we we need to put that in the newsletter we put it on a we probably want to try to get something on that actual flip that goes out with it's going to require a public education yes but but I also think it helps communicate to the public where their dollars are going in a different way too rather than lumping it all yeah I think once that explanation is given then I don't I don't think it's a controversial thing I I think it's if anything beneficial um we just need to educate and there's still significant portions of Public Works operation ation that are not going to be in in a capital 11 uh they have a lot of overhead for you know for materials for maintenance uh different types of contracts to accomplish Services might sa anything that get we're just spread out with the utility funds and Enterprise funds so our costs are more split into different funds more diluted I guess for lack of better so that was the first one coming out the date with a philosophical question if there's any uh opposition to this idea no for me think we're good uh so so next um we've had some changes within the administration uh that has increased uh the budget um part part of it has been uh if you remember the city clerk position was misgraded uh for two years that's been corrected as missg graded at a grade of 10 and we corrected that back in January um February uh the deputy clerk position has been something that has we we talked about during the restructure uh that I think will help us out a lot the addition of an HR generalist by the way we had 32 applicants for the HR generalist position um pretty excited to have that capacity here to provide that intern internal support that we've needed uh the communications assistant there's another part within the generally thought of as the internal customer service part that's not in here it's a different different part of the budget and that could be it uh but that's intentionally in the in its own budget uh so no inter contemplated uh in the long-term planning that uh Tammy omell had there was an intern uh projected uh what's the financial impact of that uh 14 weeks it depends on what the budget point is do we have to pay interns than you're not going to get an intern if you don't pay an intern in this market I try it's crazy to me but I think he's right you can't have them do valuable work and not pay them that's how it was explained to me if they don't do anything they can be free wish that was the case when I was an entrance so where we're organization I think with as much change as we've had and getting new staff up to speed uh 2025 is not the year for us to bring an intern on I think it's a good plan for the future after people got more comfortable in the roles and and we've ironed out some of our operational procedures um because they take care and feeding I started an intern program in chasa uh it was successful it yielded them an accountant he's now the who's now the finance manager for the city of savage he was my intern when I was in Chas uh and then we did interns every year that I was in shock deep for parks and wreck it Miss Danger I like the idea of it when it makes sense I don't we need to like force it in when it's doesn't for you know uh timing reasons or or budget reasons or whatever so I'm fine I'm fine personally skipping it this year but I do like keeping it in the back of the mind for future years I do think BR have I do think is an a nice position to have and I think we will have interest going forward um know between kids graduating or from wetta or Rockford or wherever I mean I think they'll be plenty of and i' I've had inquiries about it in the past so and it depends what we're going for so we we've really had kind of an internship with Jackson Shipley he's been a high payoff uh higher for us uh he wasn't an intern he was working as a part-time seasonal uh but I would submit that he got the experience that would be considered an internship in terms of growing in his leadership responsibilities and and then also when you talk internship development type opportunities I I think think the the police department's uh both CSO part-time position as as well as our Reserve program are really good internship framework type opportunities to develop people and we've definitely seen that age group taking advantage of that and the CSO uh part-time position is harvested for us two full-time officers who started out in that position and then grew up into full-time positions uh assessing Department um I'm waiting for the final to be signed by the county but looked at it save us 155,000 uh building department um so we're expecting uh potential cheat so this is conservative that's what I would say um as as we're looking at revenues uh I my guidance to staff was to go on the conservative side of revenues it's much better to overperform your projection on Revenue side and then to to uh go the opposite direction on expenses and it's better to underperform uh and have less expenses than what you project and so it's possible that that we may have a higher level delivery than our estimate uh but um based on conversations with staff uh that's where we landed in the building department um I have one thing on the building department we should touch on go for it um the idea of doing a better job of enforcing existing code requirements within new developments especially around getting sad and plantings installed in a timely basis I was in the Amberly development there are lots of folks there who have been there for a couple months don't have Lawns yet in the neighborhood next to mine there's a lot of folks who' have been there since April still don't have any grass and I don't know if that takes additional people or if we can use existing inspections that are already happening to drive that kind of activity uh but I wanted to bring that up in this section since it might have some cost so we did have conversation about redirecting some staff time in order to accomplish that objective because we recognize that it's a problem uh currently we don't have the staff hours but with some of the changes that we're projecting right now uh Mike Pritchard we're hoping to shift some of his duties and responsibilities uh that would give him some time in order to accomplish this could that kind of a process be self-funding to some degree through fees or fines well that's an interesting question uh we we could probably tie it to an es GR requirement before we do a CO um thoughts on that yeah we we haven't explored that idea in terms of being self- funded we we just looked at we currently don't have a capability to do it and so how could we deliver on it uh but it's possible that it might actually generate some minor revenue or cost recovery did you you just did we just talk about this last meeting too MH okay I just my my question on that is I made a code enforcement comp okay yes my my question on that is if I were a homeowner buying something like that I'm signing closing things and there should be timelines on all of those things right the challenge is that if they're buying from the Builder they will have the language written to be whatever the Builder wants it to be when when I bought my home for example I didn't use their finance and the mortgage company wouldn't let it close unless everything is done but but what I'm saying is me as a as a homeowner I wouldn't I would want very specifics I want my trees planted I want the grass in with then 30 days after closing or you you're an experienced home buyer though I've had numerous conver just this week during the okay during the night to unite in which people have have certain expectations and I point out to them that they signed some specific documentation that validated they understood the operating environment uh and so uh when you sign a document that says I understand my back of my home is going to be against industrial or commercial uh a year and a half later when that's built you can't come in and go wait a second they built that in my backyard um but they forget that they signed it s they didn't read it or they didn't read in multiple people's disclosures it wasn't in there simar with trails that have come through city is that us to enforce that I I I appreciate what Jeremy's doing and stuff like that but is that us to do that I mean we've got to write ordinances and codes then to there is a so it becomes a Code Enforcement issue and it barely just gets tied to co to certificate of occupancy which um there might be some other things in terms of our development agreements in which developers haven't fulfilled their responsibilities and this is one of those few opportunities where we actually have some teeth uh to we do it with trees and we have teeth on any future developments what are you going to do to fix so this doesn't happen again so especially when it's tied to money so when we bring up Landscaping standards you know as we continue to hold on to their money until they've met the standards uh that motivates them to cooperate in a different way than uh to to the point that council member Nichols said we can't enforce if they've already got a certificate of occupancy we can't then go back it's a lot harder for us to say put the s in uh because that becomes between the homeowner and the developer did you guys cut when you when you guys came on board didn't you cut code enforcement um that was one one we talked about adjusting what we would do in terms of storage Ag and code adjustments for that yeah which primarily benefited people outside the muso yes and this it it it did not benefit the people outside of Musa who had to look at junk all the time just to be clear about that it's kind of funny that You' want to increase code enforcement now when for those of us outside of the Musa that had to look at junk for years we wanted to decrease Cod enforcement when it impacted us but now you have to look at up if you want to I think some of the changes we made I don't think we changed the junk I think what we Chang anyways that's not for the discussion but so so I think it's a possibility uh as we have some changes in responsibilities shift to increase some capacity so somebody could fill that obligations uh we currently don't have the capacity uh but they're developing a plan to do that okay uh finance department there was a decrease just because of Shifting of responsibilities roughly $226,100 um future discussion uh I've had some conversations with several Finance managers in the last week or so as we're going out to try and recruit again tomorrow uh and what is it this is a really cool opportunity and it's a question of a price point for us and a finance manager so right now we're going out with the same um advertisement the same price point that we had before but it might be worthwhile for us to consider with some of the challenges that we've had in finance operations do we need to to shift our Market to someone with more Municipal experience with some of the challenges that we tried to navigate um rather than being a training ground for for other organizations where they come in here at a certain price point and then leave to make more money someplace else for our finance operations in particular because of the amount of risk that we have uh where does that put us dollarwise so so I'm not suggesting that we increase that this year okay uh I'm just saying as we think about the future we'll see what happens with this recruiting opportunity M um you know the Market's Ever Changing I'll be optimistic for today is that is there more to that s on finance har no along with what oh there you go yeah thank you you're welcome I'm I'm looking in front of me I wasn't looking at that's all right yeah okay uh so then fire um this is a strategic question uh important to note that I it's my understanding that this position no matter what we call it uh the title is less important than the role and the role would help us with the long-term uh long-term planning for emergency uh Medical Services to include fire uh they'd also help us with our fire inspections uh to have someone uh on staff important to note that second bullet our three current contracts are all expected to increase by roughly $125,000 uh and um that's is that each or collectively collectively and I could speak briefly it's okay please the uh historically I mean this is this is one of those that operationally doesn't does it matter yes or no next year yeah but we're looking at long-term Mitigation Of buer costs and having the ability to mitigate what does it mean 10 years from now if we don't start something now so the payoff for this position is longterm so we look back bringing us up to how we got here with this position today City back in 20 started fire planning in 2016 2018 brought in had the study had the subcommittee in 2019 developed the work plan on what direction do we need to go for mitigation strategies it's never been about how do we get our own you know how do we separate from our Partners or anything like that it's about how do we manage the growth in the fire and medical service so that we can um control what those costs or the what the burden will be on those agencies and we can somehow throttle what the impact is to our three serving fire departments in a way that helps them continue to be successful and the city has Tools in place to mitigate our dependence on them dependent on the value that we're getting and the the fire subcommittee work plan that was developed in 19 it pause with Co and 20 develop what those priorities are as it relates to um pre-planning as it relates to inspections as it relates to development plan review as it relates to um practically do we take on medical to because that's depending on what part of the pie that is and what our Roi is on those responsibilities so as we're executing in that work plan um we are at a policy level have accomplished a lot through the those studies but it's getting to the point where if we're going to begin doing operational and tactical planning you need the subject matter expert to be doing the data analysis so that's where it's exceeding for it's becoming more operational than what my area of expertise would be as it relates to overarching policy and I know John has has a lot of input and a lot of um feedback on it as well this position is really about um continuing we've been collecting data for that analysis and looking at what does fire and Medical Response look like uh 5 years from now 10 years from now and how will we step into that so individually for you know that position next year if it was implemented next year it would take things off of me and Ryan's play as far as Public Safety plan review um some coordination with the fire departments this would not be a person that is the managing the fire scene but it would be managing the fighter service the challenges with that today are getting the same level of service between three different departments um so I wanted to kind of give you the backstory of how it got there and the implications those next year it's really about what that position can do in the long term and when they begin doing that analysis and putting the mitigation strategies in place based on the data we've been collecting and based on the policy that was laid out last the council looked at those steps in uh I believe it was 2021 the last time and reaffirmed what that sub can I can I talk about that for a minute since I was on I was on at least oneit but um couple yeah the I think I'm a little torn on this because we don't have we still don't have directive from Council L if if we hire this position we have to really have directive from Council on what that person is charged with and it's really important to um pay attention to what it is they're doing I'm I'm really glad you changed the title of that position this one's more palatable I think to the people that we going to work with on this stuff I thought I could do this by do this work a lot on this stuff but it is like complicated it's so complicated for sure and leave and man I I think I could do it but I would have to quit my fulltime job in order to accomplish that ironically we have what so we have a full job relates to it I think the outcome that I would want to see from it is either Savings in our fire service expenses long term like a net savings would be ideal or a significant bending down of the increase that we're seeing to better optimization can I jump in real quick there I am very concerned that I would love to say that too with what I've been hearing is coming with OSHA and other uh henan County and several different mandates that are on the horizon it is going to be so far in the other direction these costs are going to Skyrocket y I mean like we've never seen before if some of what's OSHA is talk about implementing right now gets implemented as is it will be unlike anything we've seen before in that area the C uh I can send you a link a website that has the text of the oia related to carcinogens it's yeah they just up requirements for what is needed in terms of stations and equipment and uh procedure I mean just it adds a ton how they have to De was turn out here where it can be stored now all those I think it was a 600 page document wasn't it the regulation so we did the council did authorize a letter opposing those regulations at the recommendation of our three Fire Chiefs but it's going to have significant operational impacts on all fire service and specifically it talked about comprehensive Wellness um mental health carcinogens it was a a holistic approach um well we when did that come out uh I think it came out in the last six eight months but it hasn't it's come out since I've been here well there was a pretty significant Supreme Court case that hopefully will reain in Chevron yeah those type of Maneuvers by unelected bodies the one thing that I'd say about this role going with that uh as we just talked for the last few minutes the complexity of fire service in our community is not decreasing the complexity is increasing and to ensure that we understand how we're engaging how we're planning and the choices that we're making we need somebody who does that as their full-time gig I just want to would want to have a workstation clearly identifying what that person's role is because there's fire in Hell there yeah fire fire does health and fire but police does health and police North ambulance does help um so to a certain degree it's like understanding the interaction between the three entities without a bend in our expectation as a council do do you think it would be fair to say too that in the last three years that Dynamic and those variables have changed it's a bouncing ball like we just talked about it and so if if we spend the time to try and get the title and all of the duties right it's going to change the scope of it's going to change so for example just with R3 departments uh one of the Departments is talking about changing some of their Partnerships and that and and the implications on that yeah uh if if we we could nail it down and then the whole landscape could change uh so I've been against this position I was against it last year because I didn't think we ready and um I'm not as against it as I was historically especially since numbers look a little better but um we have to spend time as a council at least having in-depth conversation of what that person does if you know you design the the uh the vision the mission and the values aren't shouldn't be bouncing balls or you didn't do anything so the the Mission Vision and values almost like on this specific person need to be articulated I think work with over this so what I just hear is is we need to th this is one of the things that we weren't sure uh if if we had to make some decisions about where to cut to Matt's Point like it it's Contin but we can't keep pushing this forever we need to understand that the the second and third order effects it it increases incrementally the longer that we wait uh so um and we could agree that we're going to do this and then the follow on part is now what are we going to have them do so yep we need it and then and then we have to work to figure out what is it as of today that we need them to be responsible for and to your point John I think there's value in the public safety model that we have um in flexibility to be able to throttle and look at impacts what does that mean for Public Safety does that increase or decrease our Demand on police budget more or less and can you know if if things move on the on things that are out of our control like Ambulance Service um or with one of our three fire Partners if those change our ability to mitigate it is a little bit when you're under a unified structure with police and fire you can come up with I guess better value responses rather than um fire if you if you put fire in the bucket say they only do Medicals then they only try and find the answer there where if you know at least we're blending the police and fire under that Public Safety model um they're I think for me the greatest fear for this position is finding someone with the Strategic mindset the operational expertise but also the Strategic and idealistic mindset that can formulate the public safety model to go to a place that doesn't have their own fire dep Department um and that's going to be you know it's going to we're going to be looking for a high level operator to be able to analyze data and Trends and also some of the Tactical stuff as far as managing getting consistency in our inspections and pre plans amongst our different departments going to be a high level I don't want to get too far bogged down into this particular topic yeah we still have a couple Pages yes Sor that we can move on uh so so the uh the next two bullets under Highway streets and roadways uh the the second bullet there that I'll highlight is Kevin's going to be coming to talk about Street lighting uh and and we'll flush that out a little bit more in terms of how we're thinking about policy and uh some some different strategies that'll be coming in September uh but this is where we're at right now uh to um estimate our costs Uh Kevin anything else want to say about Highway streets and roadways um just the the third bullet point in the next page which relates to city center View is just more feedback on that um just in terms of how many banners we forecasting you know we talked about hanging flower pods baskets so we had that conversation we laid out the street lights and before several conversations about what we wanted the vision to look like we really didn't dive in too much into the details of how many you want how often you want it switched out what priorities are do we want to ramp it up as more of the downtown comes trees so there's some variability that 100,000 is probably a high in number but there's Direction on the vision of even next year what that loop around St tce looks like as it's kind of wrapping up construction this fall and until we kind of expand the downtown area what is the vision for the beautification of that street is it on the lower end because only got one amenity um or one business now or you know just a little bit more context and what what the expectation is there would be helpful and we can look at that and out is so we have the ability to scale that up over time right if we decid to want to do less yeah I mean if you wanted to rotate the banners every season you know we don't have or not do banners or not do banners or not do Planters or not yeah that's yeah the implementation of that vision is kind of conversations about how fast you want to go what are the priorities and when we St when we talked about our decremented list uh and then based upon the guidance of people over stuff this this was one of those that we kind of highlighted is is the timing right for this uh do we need to see the continued vision of City Center to to grow before we start investing significant capital on that I I have two questions first first question I thought when we did the bonding for that street the poles and the decorations were part of the bond is that correct or is that a budgeted expense inste um that's a good question would the we bought the lights and all that with the bond I don't know about the we haven't bought any banners or flowering baskets so if there's remaining funds if we wanted to see if that was an eligible expense I'd be surprised if if we could by the terms I I haven't read the terms of that Bond but buy something like like a flower baskets that are seasonal and go away uh usually you're having to use invest those funds into something that has a longer life than a seasonal plant that's something that I can double check that's a good point and then uh I I would agree it makes sense to scale the investment in that street with the development of that street and if there's one business I would be in favor of deferring a lot of that yeah um can you scroll up to the one prior on the street lights the $40,000 increase to reflect Street lighting costs I feel like this is an opportunity for us to look for cost savings opportunities long term if we continue to see development happen we're going to continue to add additional streetlight to just add more power cost over time I would love to see us evaluate some kind of a cost free system like a solar powered lamp as a standard so we don't continue to ACR these long-term liabilities maybe it's not suitable everywhere or for every type of light but I know it seems like right handan is running a bit of a bracket getting people to sign up for street lights that they don't have to pay for and then they have to pay for the power for the street lights forever so we should be cautious about that model as a customer you know maybe we could hang street signs off of that abandoned isur electrical substation and maybe we can offset these costs by start finding right headen for their abandoned electrical Sub Station talk about the old one yeah yeah the old one that's just sitting there rusting I know that is a frustration point of mine as well they did put something in something which five years I think they had to it was not know a commitment that some point it would be decommission it would be not used I'm not even I'd have to verify if it's still in use or not yeah before you would be no longer in use I don't know if it is operational for they or not yeah yeah I it had come up before and when we did a quick look my my recollection was that they didn't have a sunset on when they had to demo the building that's yeah there's yeah there the that development of new sub random I don't know it's true or not but I've seen something like that traditional versus solar lights I we'll say real quick on that 40,000 number so the street life policy we talked a little bit about this 9 12 months ago but that street life policy conversation that's coming back at the first meeting in September is really is really like a as we H streets how do we pay for those street lights and so it's more of a user conversation right now all the street lights is BU into this General line item um we did I think six to nine months ago we did create a street light fund um and so that convers that you know like upcoming conversations about do we want to create like a user Enterprise fund for street lights that would be applied in some capacity and that'll be presented in a month if that gets implemented that would if any anything like that that would offset this number I think that model makes sense but it's still whether they're paying it directly to the city in terms of General Levy or they're paying it to a Utility Fund for the street lights we're still adding expense to the taxpayer and it's better if we can add less and still have the same safety and quality from that the only quick question is and in do up to insert today but if you have opinions on what amenities you prioritize or downtown if you get email to j just like I prefer baners over flower pots orer flower pots for banners or the Vikings flags that might get L I promise you won't get anything like that about anything but help us guide that Vision so that we come back with a real number and two things I'd say on banners coming from a city in which my staff were responsible for rotating the banners banners have a shelf life uh they get sun bleached uh and and it's not too long so um even when you put in the best of materials it's it's a recurring cost it's not a one-time cost uh and so unless you just were talking the start like you're doing it for like a special event or something like that and and then we incur some maintenance cost we currently don't have the ability to put the banners up without renting a piece of equipment because we don't own a cherry picker yet not projected to have one until 2026 or 2027 what if someone one I'd rather wait two or three years before we even consider banners plantings those kind of things I'd rather establish the trees the landscape all of those things we already flipped for an ornate street light and such with the ability to add at some point but I don't disagree I'd rather put it off and let people settle in and things start happening and then especially see how much we messed up there might be ways we do have some events that maybe they can be the ones who put up banners so we do have a rodeo we do have corkran country days and may we allow that to be a space in which they put banners up frankly the only one city one that I could see maybe we do a small amount of banners for this is just off the top of my head it'd be like for the holiday parade if we end it there eventually um and wouldn't necessarily be the whole line of street with banners it maybe be two Banners at the end or something um but yeah I think I agree with you Dean but then the other question I had is why are we paying for the electricity any other place I've known street lights are paid for by there's a a yearly fee of $20 to the residents that that's what Kevin so that that's what's going to come in September okay uh it will be certain lights uh he's got a great framework to discuss on how to break that down it won't decrease our crost to zero but it makes sense all right to distribute the expense but on the on the or ornaments everything else we got to let things settle out I think and wait or let somebody donate I mean we've got a few nurseries around those kind of things donate the hanging baskets and do the watering all of those things I I agree and I think there irrigation of the PO so water there is yeah but I do think that I agree with Dean on the on the holding off especially as you know so St theres right now still has some construction quite a bit of construction going on they'll get that done presumably at some point the site SL sites to the South will develop and that will be torn up does it make to sense to have the Street at its highest level of beautification or whatever while half that area is being torn up for public years probably not I would think um but I do think in the inim it would make sense to go talk to uh Heidi's grow house or whoever and just say hey do you have any thoughts on what we could put in here in the long term that would be low maintenance and hard to kill and look decent it might be interesting to if they would be willing to work with if we had a memorial program maybe somebody wants to volunteer I want to I want to do a basket for this person would Heidi be the vendor to come and do it if they got 500 bucks like that might be a really good spot to do something like that yeah exactly yeah or we could start a city cannabis gr but it's watering literally pots all along the road oh yeah wow be here all week who needs his sales license just you know go trim what you need uh so it um I'm hoping that this Professional Services contract uh will decrease as we bring on the it manager that's the other portion remember the the it manager we haven't hired yet but we budget it for 2024 uh to come in in the third quarter and so this is to make sure that it's fully budgeted for the whole year uh I don't foresee us ever being away well not ever in the near term I don't foresee us being away from some sort of Professional Services contract some of our it capabilities because just one person can't do it uh and um we'll have to grow a larger team in order to to completely divest from something like that but even in my observation in larger cities they still had some sort of partnership contracts for some of the Professional Services yeah I don't know that we ever really need to get to a point where we have an entire ID Department in house I think there too many Specialties yeah yeah too many unique needs and uh and then it changes you know like the finance needs are way different than PD's needs which are way different uh the skus system has some unique requirements and and those specialty professional service contracts are really critical for us to ensure that we we are doing it right we don't screw it up what's skada system uh skada is the system that that helps monitor the the water system utilities Public Utilities we have a om site that communicate cellular communication with our lift stations right now as part of the water treatment F site with the water and the monitoring we're hooking up the lift station flat and discontin the cellular surface what's formal skus system doesn't me we're growing into it uh legal um we have uh labor unit bargaining coming up at the tail end of 2025 that will actually start earlier than that and we expect some increased legal costs associated with that that's that's that increase do you know what we budgeted uh is that for PD labor negotiations correct do you know what we budgeted 2022 or whatever the last time was well I think that this this 35 is based on experience that we're over budget un legal this year and that we also anticipate the additional having that come up but we did not have a contract negotiation since so this see what is it 25 is the last year in a threeyear labor contract 22 is the last one so the last one was in 22 um at that time we did not have um I think the city administrator had a brief conversation about what was negotiated but we did not have the labor attorney as part of the negotiations at that time and I think we've gone through through and some of the challenges that we've worked through in the last year year and a half M um the labor attorney has some I guess believe that they could be helpful to mitigate future issues if they were part of the contract negotiations thank uh so Parks and Recreation if I could ask who's that lawyer uh we use Hansen Galler I think is our is our who does our city labor attorney work um is that just for the PD or is that that's all of our lab all right thank you uh so Parks and Recreation manager we we've recognized is that role that title is coming out of the comp and class uh and that's what we're projecting and we're splitting it between recreation parks in order to identify just the role is going to have responsibilities in both of those areas can I ask you a question on that um probably for the 100th time but um I can't remember what percentage of people that are that use corkran public or corkran park and wreck actually live in our town and then also is it full do we have to turn away people and then also uh can we charge more uh nonresident resident I think we did do so we can change the rates I I think I can answer all of those questions pretty quickly as as far as resident non-resident I'm not tracking what that data is but I can get it J knows I think it's around 30% from what I remember when she was telling us and so as I've talked with her philosophically there's currently unless Council directs otherwise not an intention to grow the Staffing levels uh in terms of permanent employees or fulltime employees within the Parks and Recreation Department uh I've experienced a had a positive experience in a strategy to identify those who are at the best at certain things contract them to come in and do it and then we so an example would be basketball camp where we don't have indoor basketball cour but if we did you bring in somebody that does basketball camp rather than having our staff try to run basketball camp and and then these people that run basketball camp they charge a fee we charge a little bit more as an administrative fee in order to manage the registrations and and that then serves the the folks that come in uh to your question on where we're at I believe we had waiting lists for all of our programs this year uh that's my understanding I can confirm that but that would indicate that our programs are being uh heavily used what's the maintenance services what are they going to actually do all of a sudden we go from zero to 50 Grand that's a pretty steep so maintenance services is probably the wrong phrase uh H KGI are the folks who are helping us with planning our parks and so that's the $50,000 uh so they're doing city park right now but we also have some other parks that we we really need to put some energy in in the next 12 to 24 months in fact during the night to unite that's probably what I was asked most about in in every party that I was at uh in Belle weather uh when is the the park going to be developed in rinia What's happen with the OSP Park uh and then in the other parties lot of interest in what's happening in City Park U that that isn't a maintenance services it's really planning and develop it's under Professional Services on page 11 but shouldn't that be covered under Park dedication yes instead of on the budget or are we are we pulling Park dedication in as a revenue Source on the income pages so page 11 I don't think we put par education in as a revenue um so try trying to capture this would be a question too on where we put it if we're going to do capital investment do we P that separate and have these types of of contracts in there um so so it's possible that it might shift where it's at in the budget uh we're trying to identify requirements right now MH I think when we were talking about it in Parks it was only the understanding that we're bringing on an outside service to help us with planning that would be something we would fund out of the park dedication fund rather than out of general fund that I was tracking that it would be paid for H KGI contract would be paid for by par dedication and then I had a question on or Grant or Grant that's great too so so we we have CFR grant that that is a great candidate for that as well okay uh the full-time regular employee and part-time regular employees it looks like for 20123 and 2024 we were at around 60 between those two categories but in 2025 we're looking at about 100 what are we looking to change so uh we're adding part-time employees for Parks that's you're talking about just in the Parks area right yes yeah so the 46 578 is a shift in terms of our tracking uh increased percentage of the Parks and Recreation manager which currently Recreation supervisor is are title we increase the percentage so that it split 5050 from those two departments so that's part of it uh and then when you go under part-time employees uh we're looking to add another parttime time employee or uh was it or is it a half it's an increase of of a half a half and that's just with the additional places we have to mold all the pars properties parts that we build out um even our facilities the water tower the treatment plant we just it's a little bit more mobile operation instead of hiring it fulltime we've had good success part time but we want to try that keep that moment going that route helps us offset some mowing new spaces we have to maintain okay thank you uh and so then under lease or sorry P streets have anything you want to say about pave streets P pave streets unpa streets are strictly material cost increases that we get from vendors um there's no program increases no project increases that's literally just a material costs and a lot of our materials it's material and Trucking and trucking costs are pretty high now not even related to motor fuels but just that industry got changed quite a bit the last three four years so those are those are all just material costs that's the only emphasis there we don't really I get the trucking cost the material cost I thought the use of reite more was yeah at least well re yeah in that specific sense this is last page and actually that line item summarized the reite we not proposing an increase on it specifically he just pulled it all together in the Su gotcha when I say Trucking cost it's like gravel right so we have the gravel itself is increasing 40% yeah gravel has gone up the trck the hall the gravel to us is increasing 25% on an annual basis because you can't get people to and stuff so that when I say truck calling what do you say just gra maintain gravel roads the materials plus the delivery basically then we spread it maintain it ourselves once it's on site but two-thirds of that element has is is kind of crazy and anticipated to exponentiated too and there's not that many material you know Maple Groves pets are getting converted into buildings so when we have to start pulling from more rural areas we're really going to see yeah when when when Hassen Chang and stuff there's nothing else close p and it increases our our turns too so right now it's a pretty quick turn uh so it's going to take more trucks or at least more time in order to get the same amount of materials or a truck cross when that for closes are going to double if not triple well pass Six between a half million and a million dollars a mile to paid that's straight up it's not it's just material costs are going up for road infrastructure yeah specific when we have as many miles RS as we do but the emphasis there is just it's literally just a material price increase or a lab price increase I'm not taking a side in that I'm just saying that's that's reality uh planning is zoning we created a community development director position uh which changed the structure there uh please anything Matt you want to say about those roles yeah I can be I'll try and be a lot quicker this time the SIU investigator that was born out of actually a push back the ASA back in 2017 2018 to address some of the low-level drug crimes more of the specialty issues that we're seeing in in the neighborhoods really drug quality of life concerns in the community at the time we didn't have the the the backbone and the police department to support the other collateral stuff that would come from we didn't have a detective we didn't have the K9 unit that would generated we now have the can9 unit in place we have the detective program those are that have been successful the what this actually looks like would the if we went down the SIU route that's going to be codependent on relationships to be part of another unit so it could take the form of a drug task force agent or a special investigative unit but the focus is how can we best try and address some of those things that we actually started trying to look at back in 2017 2018 so that's what that additional um position is designed for so of those $230,000 in this budget line um 65,000 of that or 63,000 I'm sorry is cost of living as it relates to the collective bargaining agreement so about a third of that is would be obligated by our existing CBA 90 about 91,000 of that is related to that new SIU position um another 65,000 of that is actually the Community Service Officer but that's a reallocation as we switch that to a full-time position at the Midway point of this year that is we had we had been budgeting um 40 hours a week for community service offer split between two part-timers this year we switched it to one full-timer mid year um so this is actually a reallocation from a part-time budget dropping the 65,000 into this one so that's that's the majority of that 230,000 now you'll see that those 65,000 aren't fully realized as we actually are projecting an increase in the part-time budget further down um as we're trying to backfill um vacation or training requirements and as those things are continue to increase our part-timers are are part of backing us up for when our officers are at the Mand the mandated trainings um a small part of that was sabatical but we had made that adjustment in this year's budget I think it was about $18,000 a year was sabatical coverage that was somewhat baked in but as our staffing levels change we have additional coverages as it relates it's more tied to the number of full-time staff so the health insurance is based on projections of number of fulltime staff and experience on how many are taking it the retirement benefits outlined here on that line item the 53131 that's formula that's a par contribution to P or pension so that um the only way to reduce that would be to reduce the full-time employees or the city's pair of contribution that's not a I wouldn't consider that a lever we can pull lever we can pull unless it's with with the Staffing levels um I think I touched on all the Y and then the police Administration uh if you weren't aware um we actually we were trying to find ways to get caught up on our minutes I I'm sorry I do have a question for the chief could you go back one slide please uh okay um so Chief I know with the with the uh SIU uh investigator uh you said that often that position will be kind of a part of other other investigative groups um and I know when you have you know groups like The Drug Task Force or you know internet crimes against children often there are Grant uh grant opportunities for cities for law enforcement to be reimbursed for the city's contributions um is I assume this does not take into account any potential grants but that we we would be investigating potential grant opportunities correct yeah absolutely um what there's in that same ve um drug task force is often you know a lot of that was funded by corpes or seizures from those units that's starting to go away we're starting to see departments that RI solely on the grant funding struggle to keep those investigators because they funded it with the seizures and as the federal asset forfeitures and state forfeitures landscape is changing um that's becoming a struggle um so we would pursue that SIU um we again be looking at Partnerships but there's a force multiplier component to that that there's a give and take that that officer would be working outside of our community with whatever group we're able to collaborate with either SIU or DTF conversely when those when we're addressing those in our community we would be able to have that entire unit working in our in our community so y thank you uh and for the sake of time mayor and councel the I mentioned this uh quickly the minutes that we've been signed on our statutory we actually hired partimer uh under the police technician uh someone who has actually been volunteering to do police technician work for the Department for a while also a former worker in city clerk uh and so she understood how to do minutes very very well and she's been cranking them out until she got sick this week so that's been great uh and then there's a possibility that if this continues to be a good uh working opportunity for her uh after we finish the minutes we just continue on in this worldle and go back to assistant with PD as she's been doing uh so that's that's been good um and then Kevin had already mentioned on regarding unpaved streets that's really just uh material costs that we don't have a whole lot of control over it's what the Market's doing so that's staff's feedback on where we're at in budget development if there's any other uh for the sake of time today if there's any other feedback from you as I meet with you or if you want to send me emails uh so that I can distribute them to staff next Tuesday Northland Tammy omdal will be meeting with staff as as we have our second meeting for our long range financial planning uh and we're expecting to receive um feedback from the county on the 15th regarding projected tax Capac for 2025 sounds good thank you thanks that uh I'll entertain a motion to adjourn I move to adjourn second second all those in favor say I I I