e e e wait we just uh were able to connect with mpca today and receive their presentation this afternoon but the public hasn't been able to see it for five six days right it's in the paper packet it's in the paper packet at the at the yeah I know there's a reason why we have a Wednesday date where stuff has to be here is for the public can look at it and then they come to us and ask questions about it and then our job is to turn around and ask the presenters the the question and if they're not given a fair chance to look at something then we don't get an opportunity to ask questions during the presentation and they won't probably come back for pres for questions right the in intention for this one uh counselor was for us to provide information know decisions and to come back at a later date so that there's an opportunity to have that information to ruminate on I think I I generally agree with you I think there might be value given that there's several parties that we can get kind of all the information tonight as opposed to Breaking that up okay but I do understand your concern on that could we add a public comment portion to that that's why I was asking 9A under unfinished business and then procedurally well I I'll keep going down through item 7A Council minutes are updated item 7f CW plan bid results did not come in until late yesterday afternoon and they're updated uh item 7h is removed which is work session minutes item 7 I is regular Council minutes from April 13th um item uh 8 a has been removed at the applicant's request uh staff is requesting to move UNF finished business ahead of planning business and to the point that uh council member Schultz asked about the reason for having item 6 C move under unfinished business is in order to facilitate uh an opportunity for public comment on the Organics presentations uh items uh 13 is updated the city council schedule has been updated item uh 14a is amended to uh replace the St Grove improvements with a purchase or sale of real property and item 14 A2 is removed oh and and uh item 7K the resolution was updated with uh there is erroneous information in the uh in the resolution and that's been corrected okay thank you anything from Council Mr Mayor just real quick yeah if anybody's here for 8 the cing center can I get you to raise your hand nobody everybody got information good just figured we'd not waste their time so thanks deal okay we did send emails to everybody who comments and we put it out publicly to try and make sure that we got that information out of SCH possible appreciate it um unless there's any from Council I will entertain a motion to approve the agenda as amended so move second all those in favor say i i i n oh sorry for sorry that John that's all right um commission Representatives we have Peter and Gary from uh planning and parks and trails respectively appreciate it guys and then on to open forum for items not on today's agenda um if anyone would like to come up the microphone state your name and address for the record and um Jake uh so mayor we did receive one email comment but now that we have adjusted the agenda uh it would not be an open form discussion it actually will be discussed as a comment yeah uh on the record during the Organics presentation um and uh if anyone else would like to come forward for something not on the agenda we have a card to fill out please state your name your address and uh please for ERS okay then we'll move on to consent agenda which consists of if I got oh no it won't sorry I skipped over big portion of the agenda there um do do presentations first is 6a we have uh recognition of Clyde Beck told who is retiring from public works or has retired from Public Works after 33 years and I think Jay's gonna put some pictures up there and I've got a resolution that I can read so so I put the the pictures up with cly Faithfully served uh the community of corkran as a heavy equipment operator uh keeping our road safe and uh year round uh he retired actually last Friday uh we held a great party for him here last Wednesday uh we did invite him to attend uh he is at his new home uh up north and he respectfully defined get out of Dodge quick that's cool I do uh just as as is our tradition have a resolution uh honoring Clyde for his retirement whereas Clyde back told will retire from the public works department effective March 22nd 2024 from the city of corkran Minnesota after serving as a heavy equipment operator for 33 years and whereas Clyde vold began his career in the public public works department in the city of corkrin on March 1st 1991 on his first day of employment Clyde was initiated into snow p with the infamous 1991 Halloween blizzard whereas during his years of faithful and dedicated service to the city of corkrin Clyde be told has been a committed public servant having conducted himself in a highly professional manner uh contributing to the betterment of the public works department and the community as a whole and selflessly arriving as needed to ensure safe roads during snow and storm emergencies and working on special road projects whereas Clyde Beck told has expanded his experience and obtained his water license along with many other Public Works achievements and duties during his 33 years of employment now therefore be it resolved by the city of by the city council hereby commends and thanks Clyde beckfield for as many years of dedicated Public Works Services especially for his positive contributions to the corpin public works department and he has wished a healthy and enjoyable retirement and and a newer tradition that we do and usually when they're here it's a little more fun but figured i' still mention a couple 1991 facts from when Clyde started besides the infamous snow uh snowstorm 91 was the last year that the twins or any M team won a championship um councelor Nichols had a comment earlier that maybe Clyde was the reason why so maybe now that he's not I'm not casting blame but it's kind of incidental could be um the Dow Jones closed above 3,000 for the first time in history in 1991 um Soviet Union was officially dissolved on September 2nd ending the Cold War officially GL may have did that too that the Pittsburgh Penguins won their first stle cup defeating the northstars in six games the Chicago Bulls won their first NBA championship and Disney released their 30th animated feature film Beauty and the Beast so a while ago [Music] thank you um now we'll go on to 6B which is a review of 4M fund Investments thank you so mayor and Council if I could introduce Corey Boyer he works for us works for PMA but he is the person who helps us stay apprised at what's happening with our resources that have been invested in the forem funds uh we're bringing this information forward uh in order to have that as a foundation for future decisions as we consider investment Alternatives great uh C mayor thank for the opportunity tonight my name um along the fun fact 1991 he did not exist in go um just want to give a very brief overview of PMA uh we're celebrating our 40th year out of our headquarters in Illinois but uh Minnesota our office opened in 98 so we've been working in Minnesota for the last 26 years working with public entities um we only work with public entities in the state where the our office is out of bville that's when we do our Administration work associated with the funds that we manage uh we work with over 150 schools in the state one of the funds for fund that'll introduce a little bit over 400 unties and for fund so that's that's our focus in this is public sectors companies made up of three different entities all into common ownership all serving a different role in the work that we do so we can service our public entities throughout St Minnesota we have an investment advisory arm Securities arm we'll talking any more about all of that play uh PMA for most known probably the municipal sector who work with leue of Minnesota City 4M fund program uh the next WJ we can kind of talk a little bit about the fund the for fund has been around since 1987 it is the League's program so the league board serves as truste to the fund we were hired PMA was HED back in 2007 to take administration of that really that involv all the day-to-day work working with cities um municipalities uh throughout the state that are fund we were also hired through our investment advisory arm as the investment advisor to the foreign fund and so we are also through our St Lou Park office where we have that arm of the company um they are managing the portfolios of the forign fund as well fund is so it's been around since ' 87 it's not always been rated but it is now a rated fund um but obviously beinged since ' 87 it's through a lot of Market Cycles um but it's always been managed very conservatively and I think the rating that it now has um is an indicator of that focus on safety obviously as a public sector fund you have to really be focused on the safety of those dollars that were manage it so it's worked its way through many Market cycles and it's never lost dollars for the public entities that participated in the fund I mentioned over 400 participants now in the fund but the well youed program uh throughout the state and it is also we have an account obious P ring has been in the program I think since 2017 if I recall um when we establish that account we link it up with the local bank so you make it very easy to use shipping dollars back and forth that need the next page um when we start to look kind of holistically the program has really evolved over the years it started back in 87 it's just a money market program so a saving program for public entities over the years a lot of ADD addition investment options that come into play so right now we've got as you look at holistically from a duration or maturity Target you know on the short end we've got the money market options that are available for participants um intermediate we've got teral queries that are called This is a fixed rate fix maturity program that we can offer we also have our foreign limited term duration fund which is a longer longer focused uh investment fund that's available as well as uh fixed rate Investments anything really that's allowed by Statute uh City can also purchase those directly through our our fix rate program with the fund right now cork has dollars sitting in the liquid in the money market programs we've got some foldings on fixed rates and fixed rate Investments CD programs CD investment that we have um but there's nothing really in the middle we can kind of talk about what the market showing us right now what might make sense for a portion of the city's funds so if we look at markets just briefly I don't want to talk a lot about markets we hear a lot about this in in the in the news but this is just kind of type of information we look at when we're managing the portfolios and this is really looking at from two perspectives one from the fed you hear a lot about the fed and their uh hints that rates are going down we don't know exactly when right now the market thinks June could be a little later just depends on different data points that come in but as you look at these lines uh the blue and the gray is really what the FED has been thinking over the last three months where rates are headed obviously they think rates are going down we don't know is is when they start and how quickly they'll come down but obviously the expectation from the FED that over the next two to three years who ships some rates continue to come down these are more shortterm rates that they focused on the green line is Market expectation so the market is pretty much in line with what with what the f has been saying over the last few 4S and so right now um interest rates on the short end are very competitive very strong but the expectation CLE the next page kind of looks at really the same information looking at through a different spectum this is looking at from today's treasury yield curve so right now the blue line is basically the current treasury yeld curve if you were to buy a short-term treasury right now you're going to get your best rate as you start to go longer rates come down and so again this is just an expectation the Market's showing the expectation of a declining rate environment that dotted green line is what the market thinks the Y Curve will look like in one year so again it's pretty clear rates are going to be coming down on the short end longer term rates uh they don't expect a lot of variation but in the world we live in with the public sector we're really focused on that short end from zero to three years is kind of the main focus where we do expect to see some declining rates here over the next year and so if we look at uh the city's Holdings this was as of last P but they ran it for the the packet um ni I mentioned to see right now in your general account on the top two lines are your liquid money market Holdings you've got about 8 million liquid as of as of today and again at that at the current time those rates are very strong right about 5.3% of money market rates um there were some CDs that matured um earlier this week and so uh as I talked with Jay we'll kind of follow up on that after this discussion to see what might make sense in standpoint for reinvestment of those dollars you can see there are a couple more CDs that are in the portfolio so looking again at what expect with the market I think the discussion around tonight is maybe what should the city look at moving forward knowing that those money market rates are probably going to start to inch down here over the next uh the next year so the next page um just kind of looks at options you know it's pretty straightforward um right now the money market rates can change daily so knowing that those coming down should we start to look at locking in some of these rates obviously they're from a relative to where we work to years Bill these rates are very good and so if we can find ways to lock in from these higher rates get those locked into your portfolio you can take advantage of that over the next year two year three years whatever term you might be looking at we can look at all of these types of investment options into your portfolio uh to establish that fix fre environment for a portion of those dollars I also mentioned they limited FM duration funds that's a fund that you can transfer dollars into um gives you exposure to a little bit longer piece of the market um you do still have monthly access to it so you're not locking enough it's still liquid from a monthly standpoint um but again it's going to exposure to modate security vers you have them that money and really our goal like B says we just want to try to enhance your income today as well as looking forward what's going to be the best thing for the city to enhance inome um but knowing we have to we have to keep some some liquidity there uh at we get cril we want we got some liquid dollars that we can sh city as needed operation so with that mayor council um I'll answer any questions you might have again we want to talk about what might make sense holistically from a investment standpoint for the city portfolio U kind of move ahead into this what to be a declining rate envir any questions yeah I have some questions do we do we know our liabilities we have assets but do we have a an idea what our liabilities are the short answer would be yes that would be our long-term financial management plan which is with Northland yeah uh so uh the plan that Tammy Al briefs us on that projects our long-term liabilities yes so do we match it with if it's a long-term liability do we have the assets be longterm also so so it also projects when we're going to have to look at bonding in order to try and meet some of those liability requirements uh an example would be here in 2024 we were projected to go for bonding in 2024 uh instead we uh looked at a lot of the CIP requirements were not coming until later until 2025 and with the recent things that we went through with getting the 2022 audit done and talking with our different financial advisers uh was recommended that we not bond in 2024 and we demonstrate that with our 2023 audit uh we are able to recover from the deficiencies in 2022 which we're on track to do which will help with our bond rating at the beginning of 2025 uh and so we're it's it's working closely uh Corey helps us make sure that we keep a pulse on those things when we do Bond uh he's providing information to make sure we're hitting our spend down requirements uh to avoid Arbitrage on on the proceeds from those bonds um and we're communicating regularly about that uh and then Tammy works with us to identify those future liabilities to ensure that we have the assets necessary to meet those requirements um I don't know if should never avoid Arbitrage Arbitrage is actually good but um yeah it does thank you I have questions for you um are you a fiduciary on our account do not act as a fiduciary I work for the broker dealer side of it our investment advisor in their role they a fiduciary duty to the foram fund to the lake in their role as investment advisor okay um we work very much the same as theary but we don't have an official F role as as a br dealer so where's the advisor tonight pardon where's the adviser tonight the adviser um they don't work specifically on the city's fund or in the city's account um they work overall for the foreign fund if you ever want to get an overall review of the foreign program investment advisory standpoint they'd be happy to come out and have that discussion I guess this was more just focused on specifically for Holdings are they so aren't you the same company the investment advisor the PM Asset Management Securities Financial Network y yes corre so are they so they're a fiduciary to the fund correct the advis to the fund what about to us through your participation in the fund so you you you have your participating interest in the foreign fund they are the investment advisor to the fund but not to the city itself that me their relationship is so from Cork's perspective fiduciary is a duty to act on behalf of whoever you're the fiduciary for right fiduciary responsibility is the is acting in the interest of the person who you're the fiduciary for right so if someone is the fiduciary for corkran then that person has to do what's in corran's best interest correct but if they're the fiduciary for the 4M fund then they have to do what's in the best interest of the or M fund yeah so the people that are advising us their responsibility is not to us but to the 4M fund the investment advisor to the fund corre yes who advises us we can assist with that again there's there's a lot of layers to that that level of of Duty yeah you know we always look at it kind of through that same lens but officially as a broker dealer and through our Ro as the administrator for the fund don't notary Duty you know one thing Jay and you brought up questions about liability one of the services that the fund offers that we had talked briefly about was a cash flow service um that is a service that we provide um at no cost to the city it's just part of a service from the fund standpoint yeah and that would help lay out those liabilities again it's not a a duary relationship or anything like that it's more of a consultant offering sure okay so we don't have a fiduciary who acts in the best interest of court right if I may council member I I believe that probably would been formally attributed to the role of the finance manager who is advising uh orm uh or whoever else as we had Investments and part of the reason I asked Corey to come here was for us to begin this conversation about who does the city want to have fiduciary responsibil to ensure that we're getting the enhance the income of the city to the degree that we want to while maintaining that liquidity yes so um the nav can dip below one right it can sure why wouldn't you use a product that doesn't dip below one well depending on the program you're looking at so we've got the money market programs that we call stable value fund $1 share price um we can't say ever that it can't go Bel little one but it never happens I guess is the best way to say that um like I mentioned sp7 it has never lock money it's never it's never broken the buck as I say it's never gone low one but I can't say it pain it could the LTD fund or limited term duration fund is a variable naad program so again based on its structure being long-term focused or longer term focused is a Sprite price or a share price that you buy in at over time that that product grows from coupon payment from change in market price so then it's similar to like a bond mutual fund that you might purchase on a purch Bas so it's different program with a variable NAD um again it would take pretty extreme Market shift to send it down but again yeah and then um I want to understand your fees how are you what are your fees our fees are negotiated with the leag again there's the administrator investment advisor it's all spelled up there's a Bic perspectus to the fund out on our website on the for fund website um so when we quote rates like 5.3% one rate currently that's net fee um but we are basically compensated by the le as the administrator and investment advisor schedu information to so what is Dane rashers um or RBC Dan what is their role they were the um sub-advisor the fund yeah until P was hired as the investment advisor so they used to have that advisory goal um they are no longer the sub advisor they were replaced when we were hired oh okay I know there are there was some when we talk about fix rate program that we can offer the CDs treasuries those type of Securities that we can offer through the forign fix rate program RBC was associated with that as well in the past and some of those accounts for grandfather in where they could invest uh some fix trat prodct for some of the forign participants is that still the case they are still for for those that have grand yet oh okay are we grandfathered I don't believe the U what are the other fees do you know well the like the fix rate programs that would be on a brokerage relationships that would be on a f transaction but again we quote net fee but we can certainly have the discussion and disclos if the city wants that um otherwise like I mentioned there are like the cash flow program city um those are there are no charges for those services that just a service that's offered as part of the for program cial fee stal fee US Bank the fund and so they are again they are hired by the L pass codan they also offer uh banking services or banking services provid some C that but that is the Le yeah okay um do you get any uh do you do any soft dollar allocation within your portfolio you sure we can certainly send the information yet there's no if I read something that said you do in your perspectus would you change your answer I can look I mean I honestly I I'm not familiar with any but again I could come back to details if you want okay um I don't have any questions for you but I'd like to have a discussion all right is that okay yeah maybe let's see if there's any other questions then we can get into a discussion I had a question primly for staff um so we we showed a balance about 8 million in these various products today for funds that are not with 4M what kinds of rates do we get in our other mechanisms of handling those balances I don't know off hand I can get that information for you and come back um this this is where the bulk of our resources are so I've been paying attention to those uh and Cy came briefed as soon after I got here so and as I mentioned I was concerned about the bond proceeds and making sure that we are hitting our gates for Arbitrage U but I can definitely get that information for you I have it you know that yeah and then this is a more open question uh what happens with escrow funds so uh uh that's a complicated answer and um escrow has been handled in a couple different ways and we're trying to clean that up right now so that our processes are much clearer and cleaner uh and so um if you'd like I could come back and give you the more full answer on how hand it uh because we inherited before with the old system uh we inherited some ways that escros were being tracked and then when we went into bsna some of them are put in bsna but the the way that they're tracked in bsna within our accounting system is hinky it's not an escro fund it's actually called the bond fund the bond is that the right language yeah they call it a bond so it's a bond module but we and so we're we're trying to use it to do that uh and so when I when I first got here I was like oh our our pulse on escros and the ebb and flow of escros is much more complicated than I'm comfortable with and so we've been meeting every Thursday uh working uh with our Financial Consultant uh with ABDO with an escro specialist okay trying to clean that up generically is there interest on escrow uh just what would be in our normal fund but uh whatever the bank account would normally pay we're not maximizing that if that's your question and that's also part of the reason why we want to clean it up so that we maintain a pulse on where it's at and do we have opportunities there to potentially enhance our income uh right right now with the potential liabilities there and not sure when inflows and outflows are coming it's difficult for us to do that so we're working towards a better management solution why would an interest for on escros go to the benefit of the applicant okay yeah it's minimal I mean the life of the when a plan starts when the plan ends it wouldn't be enough to accumulate enough there some of the [Music] larger out yeah there's not way us to balance off like an average dollar month per day okay it's very complicated because there's also different ways that the esro come in so for one development we could have multiple inflows come in for a particular development and then it changes because you know we got one on here um to to Vera 6th edition this is this is the sixth opportunity for us to have escro related inflows for a development that's been going on for a while and so there's been outflows for T Vera first second third fourth so it's it's complicated we're trying to simplify that system we don't take money right it's going out to pay the expenses right that is used up in the ESC but if you got a long-term development where the money is sitting there it's coming in and out there's probably an average balance over time and maybe we don't have the software to track that but I'm sure we can buy software on the market if there's enough money out there I would it just doesn't seem right to me if there is any interest income that that goes to the city should go back at least to cover additional expenses of the applicant and be returned at some point and and that's definitely a discussion that we could have first I want to make sure that we're prepared to track and project inflows and outflows in a way that's clear and less labor intensive uh and then we want to maximize in order to be as efficient as possible right now I just want to make sure that we're confident uh so we're not we're doing it but it's taking a lot more effort than I wish it did um and so uh staff's doing a fantastic job making sure that we're we're keeping track of everything but there's a way for us to get it all into one system and then as you talked about there's Alternatives there for us to manage escro differently the one that we're using is the no cost alternative right now which is to pull those things that are not being tracked in our bsna bond module into the bsna mod module for the future we're using what we have on hand and trying to maximize what we have rather than increase our overhead expenses for that thank you can I ask the the what type of what type of funds are going into the the long-term fixed Investments are those the utility funds things of that nature so the cor do you have any comments on that no I mean we don't know from the city stand we don't have a break down on our end as to if their utility or general oper or what have you um and right now like you mentioned we just have the two CS that are out there to December 24th so they're six next six months so um okay that's where you're saying our finan one of our financial managers should be doing that the financial manager for the city should be tracking that and making sure we're tying out those Investments cor I think people look at the those big numbers that are sitting in the short-term assets and don't realize they're covering the expenses of the city throughout the year too so and we've had huge outflows so we have spend down requirements with some of those funds there so we have to hit 45% by May 11th for the 2023 Bond that's a significant amount of cash and it's going because if you're watching that water that's for the water treatment facility as that's coming through we've had very high ticket items come through here and so uh that's getting spent down pretty quickly John you want to have discussion on well yeah and I I don't know if we have any more questions for you you um I have an issue with the 4M fund okay and the 4M fund is essentially run by the same their the advisor to the 4M fund is the same company that runs the forand fund okay so if they had to your question if they had a fiduciary duty to us they wouldn't be able to say because what what what we're asking them is where we where can we get the most bang for the buck in our money and they're saying well you can get it at our other company the asset management company so so if you ask for somebody for advice and they tell me they tell you use we've searched the universe for the best bang for the buck and by the way it happens to be our own company if they were a fiduciary for us they wouldn't do that they would go out and to your point they would look at all the other funds that they could use and determine which one had the best rate and so I have a I have an issue with nobody's our fiduciary nobody's doing what's in our best interest um and the people that we are charging with running our fund their interest isn't actually getting the most Bay for the buck it's to feed their own shop Revenue Goa and so um I don't know why LMC I have a pro league of Minnesota cities is where we go to ask questions about like bills that are being passed uh give us some legal advice in this circumstance uh how do we hold meetings all this insurance stuff I don't know why they're in the interest of actually managing assets because if you look at the fine print it says um that the um the league of Minnesota cities is it gets be uh PMA has agreed to pay a royalty to the league of Minnesota cities in the of between 01 and 02 based on the investment balances in the term series fee shall acrw daily and paid monthly then they also have um an administrator that gets a fee the LTD gets a fee the other side of their company gets a fee for being advisory we also pay a custodial fee so all of these fee incurring activities with the adviser that has a conflict of interest drag down our potential performance in our fund without a doubt especially since the published rates of other funds that act the same are higher than what we have gotcha I mean to me the thing that stands out is that that role of the finance manager would be wouldn't that role be meeting a lot of those yeah we had that wouldn't solve the problem of using 4M and having them have a conflict of interest of sending their our money to the asset management company they own right but it would potentially they'd be the person looking deeper into is this the best option for us to invest well yeah they could potentially get rid of 4M they would choose the optimal fund for the city yeah but there's only four funds from one company yeah well that's what I mean if if we had Maggie or whoever the person that's their role BM is one of the choices they've got to look at all of them maybe forum is the best maybe it's not but that person is our fiduciary when that role is filled yeah but we also have a financial advisor at the 4M fund well the financial adviser I believe at the 4M fund you can correct me for I'm wrong I'm wrong but that adviser is to advise the 4M fund to where to get the best interest where they invest we're just putting our money into that fund it's like putting your money into a mutual fund the mutual fund manager is trying to pick up figure out what assets to to put that money into to get the best interest rate for that fund we pay the advisory arm of their company a fee and then we also pay the asset management we pay it or the league of Minnesota cities pays it well if we if League of Minnesota cities splits the revenue with the advisory and so whether they're paying whe whether we're paying LMC or LMC and the financial advisor are the same they're in it together yeah we're probably paying that out of our dues to LMC no we're paying it based on it's in here it's based on the dollar amount manage a percentage goes to LMC hey guys hold on one second could mayor and councel uh one of the things that I think here is uh I'm not disputing by any means what you're suggesting I would ask what would be the alternative uh so as Corey stated uh this has been a very fiscally conservative organization since it first came in that that was part of the reason the 4M fund even exists is to provide an opportunity not for those highest yields because they also bear the the greatest risk that's not true equal yield or equal equal rating equal risk you can get higher yields out there by not limiting yourself to one company LMC has one company that they use they're saying cities in Minnesota use this fund 400 of them uh and the reason is because we as a city in Cork and we might be able to find a financial adviser but with being fiscally conservative who would we pay to be our fiduciary that has the time and energy in order to manage that to the degree that's maximize groups all over town that'll do that but but that's another relationship so the point is for and the reason 400 cities are doing it is because cities have common needs and it's it's admittedly 400 people are doing it because LMC gets a cut and they're encouraged to tell cities to use the 4M fund there's a huge incentive for them to get their cities to use this fund because they get money from it if I if I gave a recommendation that everybody go uses um some garbage company and I got a cut for that it makes me not um but one it makes me not a fiduciary but it's a con huge conflict of interest I think that LMC has a humongous conflict of interest by telling cities to invest in this fund where they get a cut it's giant I think that's a good conversation that can be had once we have someone in in that role again which timing of I'm not sure this just brought it to the agenda right so we're going to we're going to have a discussion when this is on the agenda and I think at a later date we got to look at all of this all of the fees all the conflict of interests nobody's acting on our behalf it's frustrating and then they're using an Nev product that can go below one which I'd never used for a municipality w I think when we get a financial manager that has the strength to look into this that's what we should really focus on yeah for sure at that point but to your point League of Minnesota cities didn't tell us to use 4M but they recommend it it's very specific they recommend it but it was brought to it was brought to staff's attention by Council and Council voted on it I voted against it oh but now it matters because interest rates were zero for 10 years now they're about five so every little sliver matters council member botom how did we do prior to voting in 2017 to go with 4M do you remember what our yields were looking like then and who was managing as I think all their funds just sat in Farmers didn't it yeah yeah because the time and energy that it takes to do that as a former finance manager that's one of the things that I took soless when I was in Chasta is acknowledging that it's not as good as we might be able to get but it's the best that I could do at the time and and that I have uh because I I never was a whiz at managing the stock market like that and paying attention to the market rates like that and with the competing demands of managing all of the other things that we have with inflows and outflows AP payroll uh knowing that we have somebody who represents our interests uh they don't recommend they don't represent our interests Jay they're not a fiduciary to us well I mean we can debate that as a council when we put it on the agenda it's what I do for a living there's no debate that they don't represent our interest but we don't have to have this we don't have to finish this conversation today but we do need to have this conversation I think that's fair enough we certainly do that Howa Jay and I will try to figure out what time when timing of that works best in terms of if we're going to have someone on board or potentially meet with abro to have that conversation or or something and then bring it back to put it on the agenda I think the optimal outcome we should be striving for is the added yield that we gain should be greater than the expense we have to make in order to achieve it at the same yeah so you could foresee having a fiduciary and what makes fiduciary is you're paying them to be your fiduciary the cost of the fiduciary could be greater than the yield Improvement that you get through the fiduciary we need to be cognizant of that as we're trying to develop a future State thank you thank you for coming out really appreciate thanks thank you okay then we are on to with the uh amended agend agenda um we have consent agenda items uh seven a through e I'm sorry no 7 a through G and J through L does anyone want to pull anything we already did the resolution for Clyde right yep so we're did the two the two presentations the third one is moved down to just before planning business I'll make a motion to approve second all those in favor say I then we are on to unfinished business which starts with Organics recycling which was moved there which is then moved to ahead of planning business a little confusing but we'll go on to Organics recycling we have our first uh item which is Cara Bergland from hennipen County than for having us here tonight U so my name is k Bergland I'm with environment and energy at Hen County and I'm currently a composing and recycling specialist I've been with the county for nine years and I support cities with their residential recycling and Organics programs I work with half of our 44 cities including and I grew up in Maple Grove so neighboring city um I also teach backer compassing classes to Residents and I help schools reduce waste and set up and improve their Recycling and Organics programs and I'm here today to give some background on Organics recycling the policies that have been driving it over the last few years and present some options um so first just wanted to cover what is in our trash right now so as you can see about a quarter of it is organic materials so that's food scraps paper tows and napkins basically things that we can be composting um go to the next slide and so um when we look at our diversion rates as of 2022 still a lot of our waste was going to the trash and either going to a landfill or incinerator or waste of energy and uh we have a county goal of 75% diversion from the trash to recycling in Organics By 2030 and a state mandated goal for the Metro Area Counties and as you can see Recycling and Organics are still a pretty small piece of the P so we have a lot of work to do there can I ask you a question on this slide you saying this is where our trash is going right all the waste in the county how it's being managed so still the majority of it is being manag as trash and going to a landfill or a waste energy waste energy is going to an incineration which turns into energy where is the Organics going now yeah so there's two compos PL um one is in rosem and the other is in Shak so those are our two options right now for or it's I'm sorry is is the Rosemont site a privately owned site it was owned by The Mulch store and they were purchased by Waste Management I think in the last year or two thank you and then the other ones by the shwa Su you said the majority of I want to hear what you said the majority of something is something the majority of we're what we're going or what the waste is either Landfield or waste energy right obviously that's what it says but is is waste energy bad so so you act as if that's bad but why is that bad I mean it's not so there's a waste hierarchy the top would be you know reduce and reuse and then recycle it's like our next you know highest option and then composting and then waste of energy we put above land filling because you are getting electricity from burning the trash we're getting Steam from it as well that goes into the district energy um so you know what we want to see is 75% going to recycling and Organics and the rest of it probably Wast energy but time will tell you know kind of how the whole system changes is that question thought waste energy was being eliminated not for a period of time so there's actually Ken could probably speak to this better so Carolyn's my supervisor at H County the board recently had our department do a study on what it would take to close our henan energy recovery center and there'd be a lot of things that would need to change before we got rid of that option but it has been in discussion with our board is this specifically home waste is this everything Municipal solid waste so homes businesses schools anything but industrial you know like large scale okay like demolition construction debris that's managed separately so it's whole man business yep okay so um back in 2018 our board voted on a requirement for cities to offer Organics and um the timeline for that was um cities had to have something in place by January 1 2022 the next SL and so the options are if a city is over 10,000 residents they either need to have a Citywide Organics collection program or they can require haulers to offer organic service if a city is under 10,000 residents they can choose one of those options for curbside collection or they can offer an organic drop off and I'll go into those in a little more detail so with curbside collection um I'll actually cover that on the next slide a little bit more but with drop offs um we do have 15 cities in the county that have a drop off so some nearby cities include Dayton Handover Greenfield and Independence and um one thing that varies based on the program structure is the amount of funding that we pass from the state to cities so we manage about $3.6 million of score funding from the state and so if a city has an organic drop off they can have 3,300 a year towards that drop off um so just so you know in 2023 Corr score funds were $3,830 and so about 10,000 of that was towards Recycling and a little under 4,000 was for Organics and that was under the holler requirement model go to the next slide and so with uh curbside Organics I mentioned there's those two different models um so for Citywide programs 18 of our cities have a Citywide organic program including Plymouth just launched a new program this month um so again with the score funding uh for a corkran Organics funding would increase from it's been between like three and 4,000 to probably our estimate is between 20 and 25,000 if the city did a contract for organic so we provide more funding for Organics for Citywide programs because we've seen higher participation in those programs can can I can I ask sta a question if we were getting funding already for Organics recycling through the score program what was that that funding used for did it go to the the just the general recycling offset I didn't find out until this week that that was coming in and so I haven't dug into that yet okay uh when when we met uh with kir earlier this week that was the first time that I knew that that funding was coming in I don't for all that long and so I I wasn't here last year decisions were being made it would be good to know if if we're using it to subsidize the regular recycling credits that we're giving to to City residents through that program with it and then so hul requirement is the other option so my understanding is that's what support gr has been doing for the last couple years um we have seen some challenges in recent times and I'll get into that in a little bit um so one thing is there's been a lack of communication with from the haulers and confusion among residents so we have 10 cities that have the hall requirement and we've been hearing from a lot of residents from those cities um but we can support the city with Communications and do mailers we're actually sing one out to 120,000 households this next mon so go to the next SL is it what was the thing about the 10,000 residents can you go back to that slide no okay just off the cup under 10,000 you don't have to have the hollers involved if you don't want to you can have a some sort of thing site drop site yeah you but once you get above 10,000 then the haulers have to be involved in some way correct um so I did also want to cover the difference between backyard and Organics um so as I mentioned I I teach backyard composing classes I'm definitely a big fan of it um but it does have some limitations for what you can include so um when you're accomplishing you know it's a smaller scale it's not going to be active in the winter and you can't include things like meat and dairy versus Organics um you know we're collecting organic from businesses from schools and from homes and it's all going to a large scale compost site those sites get up to 160 degrees and they're active year round so they can take anything food meat and dairy bones shells from sh basically anything from a plant or animal they think handle um so that's kind of the main differences between the two and so the other piece that came into play last year and Alon will cover this as well is a Minnesota State Statute um so5 a. three and basically it's saying that haulers cannot charge residents who recycle more than residents who do not recycle so my understanding is the goal of that you know it was written many years ago was to keep the cost of recycling service low so that everyone can participate the state made a determination in 2023 that this statute now applies to Organics so there's another state statute that defines recyclables and that definition includes Organics or you can also call them Source separated compos materials um so basically Organics are under the umbrella of recycling and so you could also say in other words Minnesota State Statute requires that residents who participate in an Organics program cannot be charged more than so is that why this has become a bigger issue now we said that happened in 2023 yes so that's the trigger for all of the dialogue we've been having yes so and I know a lot of the haulers um brought it online in kind of December January I think is when a lot of them like switched over to that as well um and then one other thing that's on the horizon so we can go to the next SL is um the solid waste management plan um so the poing control agency released the Metropolitan F Waste Management policy planed in early 2024 and that informs our plan as well um so the policy plan from the PCA has a required strategy for counties in the seven County Metro area and that's to make residential csite Organics collection available in C a population greater than 5,000 by 2030 uh henan County will develop our plan we for 2025 to 2031 um by October 2024 so we're starting work on it right now and we'll be doing engagement and we'll need to address that required strategy of making organized collection available in cities with over 5,000 residents and so in the next few months we'll be do an engagement with cities um we announced that to them last week to be getting input from them all the um on the so that is all I question thank you uh does council have any questions then actually I have a quick question for Council if we wanted to do public comments after Collective three more after each speak I I have a question okay um it's more of a comment I guess but it'll be uh you know what alomi is I have one okay I love it so I do compost year round um and I'll just say I know I'm sure you had nothing to do with this but uh I don't like it when the county puts requirements on cities and actually has nothing to do with it once that is done so it's lazy legislation to just tell the cities that they have to do something and then walk away so it's kind of irritating from that sense when they have unfunded uh mandates they put on us and then our residents yell at us as if we did it um so stop doing that there are score funds They do change based on program structure but I me um okay that's it um and I think we'll do probably the public comment are there people that wanting to speak in General on this topic you guys shut that down no no we absolutely on our throats we're paying a tax to County and it's forced on us and there's nothing we can do sir could I get you to to come up to the mic so that we could get your name and your address because we absolutely wanted to hear your comment please I I I think it's helpful feedback I I've been meeting with folks and trying to communicate something similar and I think it's good for them to hear from continue to try to advocate for it to the people that can make that decision um and having support deal is on on we got to be formal here we can't just have it be freefor all we love I love your comments but how it works is we want it structured and respectful um and then and so we we as a public format we have to have who you are and your address yeah name and address and then so up to the microphone that great please not a lot of people like to do it so you're speaking for a lot of people and we appreciate that my name is Bob Sun I live at 6685 Trail Lane for Minnesota I've been here now for 46 years this deal with this coming in with composite stuff they're charging us $22 okay a quarter yep and forc down our throats and we have about this much to put in that can I I'm not kidding you I've got 10 acres so we've been throwing stuff over the bank without no issues whatsoever and now if you look at the back paperwork on it you'll see how much tax is being paid to end up in count okay and I'm tired about taxes kind of down if you understand but anyway now what happens now comes summer and it gets hot out and you've got that rotten stuff sitting in that can alongside your house for a week before they come to get that much stuff and and if it's just wrong that we're getting all this new stuff jel down our throats without us to have anything say about it and if you understand you know if you guys I don't know if you guys live in corkland or not we all do we have to we're your council members if if I may real if I may real quick I I completely do Organics also as John does year round I have a pile of stuff that could start a fire it gets so warm I turn it over I do everything we are all in this together so that's who you're talking to so thank you for coming to the microphone and talking the the the issue that I have and one of the one of the speakers are going to come up we're getting charged $22 and some odd cents a quarter and I haven't seen the damn compost B yet to get the compost to get the comp to get I'm gonna be like you right now to get the compost bin it's a $40 charge delivery charge exactly I can say I can say all kinds of crappy words and stuff like that I'm a little displeased also sir and you are one of I don't know how many people are here to talk you're nothing compared to the phone calls we're getting and we are our hands are tied by the policies that have been made and a few of us aren't big fans of henpen County either no offense please yeah for example my brother-in-law he lived just outside um in County just outside of H County he gets all them Services okay at about a tenth of what it's costing us in p and he's not well we understand thanks man appreciate it we understand very much I think that's why we have all of this here tonight yeah go back to the old days get rid of all that stuff just have a burning Barrel appreciate thanks thank you for standing up that'd be great so I just want to clarify the taxes and fees on the falling invoices or bills because it is not super clear so any state or County taxes fees are on the trash it's not on the Organics and that goes to fund our programs basically so we work with schools multif family with basically everyone to help them you know improve Recycling and the the that's being charged by the huler is not going to us it's going to them and the huler they're choosing what to charge so another model would be to do a city contract where a set rate and what we've seen in the holler requirement cities most are paying five to $10 a month and in a contract you could set that rate see that's more work for us you're making us do more work still but and not funding it telling us what to do I'm just saying it's option so right now one option since you're under 10,000 residents would be to have a drop off and then when you approach because it sounds like there's a lot of developments Michelle and I have been talking about all the developments that you will be approaching 10,000 in the next couple years question you change performance when how is that determined uh the population in between census I think we look at the Met Council data right when we need to get yearly data thank you and we get household numbers from the city so each year we do reporting and so that informs the score funds so you know with our 44 cities we the most updated household counts and that's how the funding is distributed through population all haulers are required to offer it but they're not required to provide it correct if there nobody asks for it that is correct so my is Republic has some customers but the other three do not currently repu has seven out of 1,53 customers that basically ruined it the city so thank you all so I have switched myself to a different Haller for a third of the price we're g to get to Republic in a little bit so hang on you'll have your opportunity and then I think we'll do a general uh y public comment at the end of all three probably the easiest way for going forward any other questions from her thank you thanks for uh I'm glad you're here coming up very glad you do a lot of work we appreciate it just something's got to get fixed so thank you next we have Matt Herman from Republic Alison I'm sorry uh Allison from the M sounds like city is going to stay at 99,999 for the next 25 years thank you for inviting me here to speak tonight Minnesota Pollution Control agency my name is Alison Cameron um I am not a an Organics expert I'm here on behalf of um my other team members so if you have any specific questions I might have to take them back to the get back to you um so first thing I want to talk about is the PCA could not create the law I'm about to talk about we play an important role in assuring their compliance but our legislators resp to create um so um like here spoke about the um Minnesota statute 115a 551 um set the 75% recycling requirement and that is for our Metro counties um so that is due by December 31st 2030 each County should be meeting their goal of 75% recycling um we really can't get to that rate unless we include Organics and that help what happens if you don't what what happens to a county that is at 74.5% or 50% yeah you know I won't be the decision maker on that however um it could affect funding if there's actually um uh meaningful efforts being made toward that goal would that just be score funding or does it go beyond that um there's also lrdg funding um that is a fund that comes off of the tax dollars that are collected at rain you want to slow down while you're tight no I got it all right um so Minnesota statute 115 a552 is the opportunity to recycle um this requires our counties to provide a recycling center curbside pickup and also monthly pickup so in particular um the curbside pickup uh is for cities with a population of 5,000 or more and the monthly pickup is also for 5,000 um and why we're all here tonight Minnesota statute 115 a93 sub uh division 3C a licensing Authority shall prohibit mix Municipal solid was collectors from imposing a greater charge on residents who recycle than on residents who do not recycle the intent of the statute is to promote Recycling and to ensure that it is not cost prohibitive or more expensive for anyone who wants to recycle there should be no price reduction or savings if one chooses not to recycle there is no op out of paying the fee for recycling service the licensing Authority is responsible for implementing this requirement the mpca can hold licensing authorities accountable but the actual enforcement of any prohibition adopted by the licensing Authority is their responsibility um licensing authorities May impose requirements that are consistent with the County Solid Waste policies as a condition of receiving and maintaining the license a licensing Authority shall prohibit mixed Municipal Solid Waste collectors from imposing the greater charge on residents who do not recycle and a license um is required for any haulers that are picking up mixed Municipal solid least um and so according to State Statute that licensing um Authority is given to either cities or counties I Believe In hin hin The Authority um that is giving all those licenses slide why should everyone pay this supports clean water air and land to support healthy communities and ecosystems in the strong economy in Minnesota um everyone benefits When more people participate uh it's not just the households that opt uh to place their Organics in the recycling cart that benefit from organic recycling we all gain reduced greenhouse gas emissions improved Soil and Water Quality a strong economy and reduced Reliance on those sharing the cost reduces barriers to participating charging only the households that participate creates a disincentive to join Organics recycling programs and raises the cost for those who do not participate communities that charge every household have the same uh the same have dramatically higher participation rates um and collect more recyclables and Organics and communities that charge only subscribers this is consistent with state law Minnesota has become a national leader when it comes to recycling in part thanks to a provision adopted into the waste management act in 1991 um it prevents households from uh being charged more for the recycling ask can I ask you a question yes what happens with our recycling is it recycled in this state or is it bundled and shipped out of state yes we have a really robust recycling system right here in newa and also in the metro area our recycling is not leaping if you put a material in recycling inin it is tracked and it is managed and important to the state what do we do to control microplastics from our recycling that I'm not an expert on um I can get back to you on that um so like I mentioned that this law has been applied to botles hands cardboard and other recycl recycl for more than 30 years the roll out of an curbside Organics program has required ra R but um I think it's good to think of this as the preventive action uh the great Benjamin Franklin an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure we say this a lot at the mpca um if we continue to landfill materials that could be managed using strategies recognized higher on the waste hierarchy we're strapping the future taxpayers of Minnesota with the expensive end of care for additional landfills closed landfills must be monitored and managed into perpetuity to protect the environment and human health they produce contaminated fluids called lead shade and gas that must be managed properly to avoid polluting groundwater uh or affecting nearby structures everyone in the state is bearing the cost of these supposed landfills so the legislature is evening the playing field for all motans with this requirement to charge all residents equally um Organics are one of the most prominent and problematic materials found in landfills and organic recycling programs help reduce our Reliance on landfills thank you any other questions and then third we have Matt thank you Allison yes thank you thank you guys uh we have Matt from Republic Matt Herman from Republic good evening uh mayor and Council thank you for the time I name is Matt Herman for public services in Delo formerly r e invitation happy to be corp's traditional recycling partner for a number of years and and looking forward to contining that expanding that relationship um thank you for uh State and County come out and talking through this what's been a very complicated issue um that's changed quite a bit um staff and I have talked several times over nine months going back to how this situation would be handled and clearly it's been it's been ever changing and complicated uh first I wanted to address a couple things that I heard from Council so far tonight um there was a car delivery fee our initial roll out and it took us about about 10 days I think to to identify that address it with count staff and it wasn't a decision that we made to say let's go put that fee on our D it was the behind the scenes fee that was standard uh we removed it and we refunded it wherever it was charged so if you have heard otherwise I would be very happy to look into that and get that into I think we had rely no more than 20 or 30 in a short window that had paid it and we backed all those so that that has been that has been addressed so a republic bry's customer today who wants a c give us a call we'll bring it to you at charge and your service starts on your next regular weekly service day so one of the complexities with this issue and and and council member Schultz um sounds like you left us because we did this thing that we are obligated to do in order to comply with our City License State LA so we're we're doing the best that we can to comply with all the different rules that that are the standards that we're held to um and and I'm sorry that we lost your business because we were trying to comply um I I would disagree with the assertion that if there are other hollers operating in the city today but they just don't have anybody participating yet but they're not supposed to be leving the charge the entire premise behind this charge is that people who make the decision to do it aren't charged aren't penalized for it and and that's exactly what's being allowed and happen when some some Howers are are allowed to not comply they're providing an incentive financially for their customer based not to make that decision so whether I agree with the whole how we got here or not this is where we are and it's our attempt to comply with with the laws that that govern our business and and one of the things we talk about a lot is a Level Playing Field we'll compete with our competitors in a fair and open market we do that all across the Metro but we'd like that that regulatory playing field to be level so I'd like to see the city hold additional hollers accountable should this be the path that we stay on um I thought our earlier speakers did a really good job of articulating the three options um I provide service and contracts to 40 cities across the metro and many in hampen county and we've worked extensively in cities with drop sites with contracts and and then open market communities so as your service provider as your resource such to staff and Council we got to find the best system for the City Corporate and if that's the best system now until you reach 10,000 and then a new system after you reach 10,000 or when the goal po changes and it's 5,000 we can do that I mean we've worked with staff I believe we have a drop site container that's ready to go and available um we have the charge there and we're actively trying to you know offer that service yeah so quick question on that if that happens everybody still gets charged $22 a quarter so if if if you were to determine if you were to amend the ordinance so that we are so haulers are no longer required to offer the service you could amend the or this is is my opinion but we can't amend the ordinance it's not our ordinance City so the city ordinance hasc speaker spoke so you have the to do that you have said hollers have a license must offer Organics the not started we put a $15 a month fee and just charge people who did it we were told we can't do that so now we charged it that's based on with city ordinance it requires us to offer the service if the city ordinance requiring us to offer the service were gone and a drop site were chosen we would make plans to back that fee off and no longer charge it um but I I think that puts you in a situation of temporary success and then while whether it's reaching 10,000 or the goal post moving to 5,000 we're back to the discussion of how do we comply with with the requirement to have everybody and and where we where I personally and my team has had success um creating contracts for folks uh we just rolled out a Plymouth contract you can see the pricing for Plymouth on their website it's as low as $3 a month in communities of lots of sizes where where we can come in and we can better Define the the labor that's necessary the time we can be far more precise with price and we can utilize a tiered pricing structure that will make the the initial price very low to reflect very low participation we still have some cost to get how many ever are out there but we can tear that price up so that our capital and labor investment increases the price increases as well and as as the earlier speakers have addressed I think across the betro without a doubt we're seeing better education better participation better recovery from communities that have and part of that is consistency and education my team works with City teams across the metro and which I has team to put together good targeted education pieces but get people pretty excited about it and and council member bottom I don't believe it's a huge burden um on the council we've worked in partnership with a lot of cities um to get this done and that's the one of the services that we provide with all due respect it's not just this I'm speaking in Big Picture other governments putting mandates on us like half of what we do is dealing with other governments problems and impositions so it all adds up you should run and then see what it's like speaking specifically about providing Recycling and organic Services that's what our team does that's what we Comm so interest of time I I I won't go any further just to say that we're excited to continue to partner with the city uh we are your traditional recycling provider through the end of this year and the option I'd like you to consider as we begin negotiating for the addition of organic collection into that recycling contract to start January 1 2025 that would give us time to work out some of these details um and and again we've had successful examples of that and i' I'd be more than happy to talk I C staff I'll leave that thank you chairman is there a mechanism that would allow you to offer Organics recycling without the additional cart there has been there So Randy sanitation which I was formerly employed we had what was at the time called the blue bag program the bags are now green and it's more technically referred to as a co-collection program so that's where you're going to take a a specially designed compostable bag that's about twice as thick as a normal compostable bag because it has to handle compaction and tipping floor so you're going to put the compost the compost trash in that tie the bag put it in with your garbage and then that bag will be separated out wher your garbages process so Randy sanitation was an innovator in both the bag and separation technology and that was a strategy that they employed a really Leading Edge uh we scaled that program back when ordinance 13 came to pass because it was impossible for us to take all of the trash in henan county and bring it to down so it's key to any co-collection program working you have to have a facility that can separate it and we had worked with henin County at the Brooklyn Park Transfer Station where we talked about Rosemont and Shak as being the most likely locations for this material much of it from up here stopped at Li Park and it goes to the transportation and then H County carries at that last leg the one facilities we had worked to get Bank separation there it did not come to fruition so until we see a major investment somewhere in separation technology it's going to be hard to expand that program um Washington and Ramsey counties are phasing in their program right now where eventually all citizens in Washington rangi County will have an opportunity to get those bags put the Organics in their trash and then it goes to a facility that they spent some $40 million on to get the banks out so it's it's a great concept but I was happy to work for uh the company that sort of brought it to pass um in this market in our in Delo we were not able to see it um I have a question regarding uh until suon like that has made or or something changed in the future what now operationally are you doing that's costing the $22 driving a truck uh and having dedicated routes and dedicated Capital uh in the form of a truck and stacks of carts um across all P comp so the $7 number the number we're talking about being our price is not a price tailored for per it's a regional number um we rolled this out again in an effort to comply with many different city ordinances County ordinances state law we roll This up about a dozens different communities from Eden Prairie to you Rogers quite all across Metro minaka all across hen County l so that number is a regional number um that was picked because we don't know if everybody's going to do it if nobody's going to do it but we're going to drive a truck to the four corners of minetonka two days a week and pick up whatever's there um the benefit we see in Contracting is we can get very granular and very specific about the costs and and the labor and then we can tier that pricing inside the boundaries of the city and we can get much more precise on what what a number should be when you speak of Contracting is it Contracting to do the whole city generally that's how we're doing it okay so no matter the garbage Faller so to speak so the example of Plymouth um Republic myself we had a a recycling contract traditional recycling with City plmouth they have an open hauling system similar to corporate for trash um they amended the the city of pouth amended their recycling contract to add Organics and so now we we service that that city in in completely before organic question on the Organics how often is Republic going to clean the organic container at this point not a service offered from many Hol we it's important that residents use bags for some materials you can't pour leftover stew or um there there's really good resources both state and County website um but then they got to be specific bags or the white Hefty bags are good enough or has to be a BPI certified bag or a paper so when you're corn in the summer time and Hing it into C bag that can go right into rather go Organics than to my horses are pig I so to speak well and that's that's the gist that I'm trying to get to not hounding you on these things but we there's many people that already do this stuff and now it's another fee that doesn't make sense for people again it's crazy very to that concern I've been on the phone with hundreds of customers from dozens of cities and and I can tell you that I don't I don't disagree with the outcomes that we're trying to get traditional recycling started this way too the reason we have this law is because how are we going to get traditional recycling off the ground the generation and this law still applies to traditional recycling so three residents in corporate said I'm not paying 525 five a month to get my recycling card out of here they still have to pay for and that has been normalized over a generation of of growth in in recycling it's why we're kind of a nationwide leader in recycling one of the many reasons so change is hard this is a difficult I sympathize with all those folks um and we are just trying to be we're trying to be the best service provider weekend to cities and keep all the reg if we had a single dump site would you stop offering as the service to individual resident pickups yes I think we would so then it would just be a single charge to the city which we would deal with you wouldn't charge it on each trash bill still correct if if the ordinate in communities say Greenfield is a good example where we where they chose to do a drop site we have never charged residential customers their compliance strategies ordinance 13 was a drop site we set that up at City Hall we service it every week uh it's got combination lock if your site's not secure enough we have I think I have 11 or 12 of those between the little communities around the lakes and around here and that's a good option to to build community interest you know we ask that the city hand out the code so somebody calls and says yeah I'd like to do that you give them the password now you're building a list of people that we can and share information with and build that up you require a bag for that then too or is it just dumped in straight in it it it should be it should bag again if you put a three gallons of chili in the bottom of a yard container it's not come out so that you provide the city with a pile of bags or whatever at okay so then how do they go about recycling in that form it would be any hardware store any grocery store so they'd have to buy the bag have to buy a BPI certified bag the BPI logo is very distinct you can't use like a paper a paper grocery bag from Cub y okay some some materials will work fine in that other wetter materials know you can't put soup in a paper bag so again it depends on the material but BP certified or a paper what what do you experience as far as people drop another trash there or has it been they've been the Fantastic so we took the step of adding a locking bar to them so you I mean if you can't open it up and put anything in I know the one in deep Haven is right near the public area we've seen a t or two drop next to it and you we pick up for get it we bring to our drop site but it hasn't been bad we have a lot of communities that have taken the lock bar off in the winter and maybe we'll see if that can happen in summer but you it depends on this on the security of the can I ask a general question about uh Organics recycling I'm assuming you don't want animal waste in the correct and what happens because we've had this discussion when we have building codes come up right and we're looking at developments the size of garages and people have you know we're seeing smaller and smaller garages and the need to put them in the garage and to this gentleman's point he talked about putting it on the side of his garage B in our city ordinance really requires you to have it in your garage which nobody wants especially when it smells and I can really see where you'll have residents that will stick their animal feces in that recycling because it already smells rather than stinking up their regular garbage can so what happens with that compost when it comes to you with animal waste in it' be very difficult for any of our drivers to know what's inside of that bag right so it just go it goes it's going to get to the cost facility and whether you whether they whether they see it at impact their process it may or may not the contamination of most concern in in Organics is glass you know there's Technologies on the back end of the of the finishing process where they can screen a plastic fork that wasn't supposed to be there they can get that out so if there is the white Hefty bag they can get that out in the final product screening they can't get out shards of glass and I don't know where dog dog and cat you just your animal weight I got a list distribut any other questions I would just encourage our state and County friends to consider that sorting technology because I think the path to this actually succeeding is making it integrated into everybody's normal way stream the act of having to have a separate container space for a separate container that you only put put 6 in of material in every week it's it's enough of a hassle that people won't do it and you're not going to get to your goal with that kind of a system you could come up to the mic what we've seen in Ry Washington is their Tien fees are um about to go up to 130 a ton whereas 7 so there a great expense to putting all of that the system material out facilities like that cost between 100 to 500 so it is a great expense everyone's TR for and if I could add we service we recently started servicing Organics in the city of St Louis Park which has a very mature program close to 50% participation rate granted a different Community but as the programs mature and so we can now see one-year-old programs two-year old programs 10y old programs they do mature and they do they might never get to 95% participation where we see traditional recycling but we're seeing second year in Golden Valley 40% participation people will put the card out you know once in a month um St Louis Park's been had a long time and they're 45 pushing 50 so it it does grow um our our strategy is to start with communities and do education and grow it slowly so we get really dedicated participants I think Plymouth is going to start right at around 10% um but I think we'll see that grow four or five% good solid slow steady growth where we don't have contamination issues um so it's it's incremental change we're not going to S our fingers and and get the generational growth that we've seen in traditional recycling we just have to start somewhere I agree that Co collection offers a mod of conveniences so I proud to be part of ry's when we put that model forward um it hasn't yet been able to scale and now is gonna try to see it scale and so I think when they're done rolling their program out in three years we will be maybe be able to see what horse won the race but it'll take three years and and I think we have the technology we have the routes we have the carts we have the regulatory pressure we can start collecting Organics right now and we can always switch later that horse will but I I don't think that should prevent us from taking action just one more I've been a Randy's customer I hate Republic but I've been a Randy's customer for 38 years I have the same trash can for 38 years I'm considering going the other way because they don't charge now you talked you're proud to do what you're do and I thank you for that it still doesn't address the answer the question for those of us that are rural rural egg all of those things it's not addressing it at all and to talk about Fair well we can't charge some and not charge others so we're going to charge everybody what makes me not fill mine up every week with Horseman or I mean I I just I'll be the I'll be the Devil's Advocate on the whole thing we're doing it now um I'm not a fan of burn barrels but I do burn my paper and those kind of things that aren't that isn't recyclable and such cardboard most of it goes into recycle bin every two weeks it's picked up anything overflows it goes in my burn my my fire pit so there's no consideration related to the rural egg side of things which cork is well over 60% is still rural Agricultural and stuff so I think we compost more than any other city in uh in the Metro because every farmer probably composts uh tens of thousands of pounds every year when they Flip Flip their fields great I don't know why it it's it's just another penipen County deal where they have in State deal where they have a policy and they just assume everyone lives in the city neighborhood I'm bailing 900 bales of grass a year I don't get it it's so frustrating ain't going into a compost site or anything it's going into the horses I've got the coolest black dirt you ever met or ever needed and uh I recycle out with people that garden and such they come out and pick it up and it's gone and I just nobody is thinking about that so we do we have to just yep we're going to spend $22 a quarter on this or the city needs to make an arrangement for a bin that's out there and we're still going to get charged for something we are already and have been responsible for a long long time so um it it is extremely hard to swallow from the rural side of this stuff well it sounds like if we go to a single s you won't be charging individuals anymore for until we hit 10,000 until we H 10,000 it'll buy us some time yeah yeah don't do that yeah well but that is as was discussed that's already in the mca's approved plan it's a required system for Cy to implement so the question is by 2030 when will that be implemented right we'll hit the 10,000 first before the yeah I know we will or the 20 pay attention to who you vote for now thanks for putting up with us very much you guys I think there's an element of Courage that you four have shown absolutely you're in the cross series pretty bad as you know and I applaud you for actually coming out and same here speaking to appreciate it um we were going to do a little bit a public comment if anyone wanted to uh ask any questions after the presentations and discussions we've had here um I think I'll start off with we don't normally do it this way but because of kind of how we adjusted the agenda so much we have a letter uh and is fet Lana here no she just submitted the comment okay so I will read her comment um because want to make sure we didn't miss it with agenda shuffling um hello I'm reaching up or actually see here her name is Fana konash k m o n 22715 county 10 um I'm reaching out to address a concern regarding mandatory organic waste fees through a conversation with fellow residents and neighbors that many of us are actively utilizing compost technology to make our organic waste as conscientious individuals we find it unfair to be Char for a service we did not utilize in my household we have implemented a thorough system for managing organic waste all biodegradable materials including but not limited to vegetable scraps eggshells eat uh eaten by chickens and yard waste are diligently com uh composted and utilized in our garden given the prevalence of composting practices among residents I respectfully request the removal of mandatory organic waste fees for Park and residents if addition needs to be acquired for this removal the residents will be willing to sign this petition I urge you to consider making this fee optional allowing every household in uh every household in Freedom to decide whether or not they need this service thank you for your attention to this matter I eag eagerly await your responses sincerely set L and then if anyone else uh would like to speak uh please come up microphone and and say your name and address and you're more than welcome to and if not Mike Thomas 21525 nice um it's a it's a bigger thing than anybody here but we're looking at the back end of the process the end of what we get I think it'd be very important to be um looking at how we get packaged what how things come to us we're looking at how do we deal with it in the end but again that's much bigger than all so just wanted to bring that up quickly um the other thing would be cuac with u recycling garbage cans that are already out there it's um difficult as it is especially during the winter months for the school bus and the garbage trucks to get around on the snow pile by adding another set of cans out there would make that even more difficult as well as I'm not to made to comment about greenhouse gases and Emissions we sending more trucks out there um I already see garbage truck recycling truck there's at least two different companies that come down my road as it is there's only five houses on the public I see at least two other garbage companies out there driving so now we're going to put one more set of trucks on the road I do think redu reuse recycle is a wonderful thing we comp po along with everybody many people in the area but I think there's got to be a better way for us to all do it thank you for your time I appreciate you coming well it is tough done a great job thank you for thank you thank you thank you Mike anybody else okay if not then we will move on to the next item which is 9B so Mr May if I may anybody that's here online we're going to talk about what we're going to do next at another meeting yes okay yep we'll bring it'll come to the agenda on April 11 got it thank you okay on to item 9B uh on 9B which is yeah it was a when I did the power oh gota do we need any visuals for probably May did did we only move no we moved the whole of water tower under the section my mistake thanks everybody very much thank you Kevin you're up with water tower logo by mistake about that um before you are bringing us back to council from U me meeting I believe in December um trying to finalize a decision on the color the base color of the water tower the new water tower of Northeast Corr as well as a determination of the logo um kind of where we left it was staff asked what View kind of the best sight line of view points to factor into you know how many logos we have what's the orientation and some additional information that uh I was able to I think I was able to go and look at this so this is kind of my opinion of the viewpoints um and really I drove all around the city and really the best view in florid by far is County 30 so I think that's ultimately probably GNA be one of the the biggiest streets that section in for so high visibility I think that's what I would recommend is focusing on um there's a couple of different ways to get there um this the high that's the map kind of showing option one which is three logos it's a little bit hard to see but you can see the cones uh the intersection of Sunny Hill if you're going eastbound on 30 uh it's very visible as soon as you get to the high point where Oakdale and Sunny Hill connect so that I guess Western dot on Center 30 it's very visible from there um as well as about it's not as visible from 30 and 101 but you come basically at the end of the oswal property there you get high visibility and of course you're at the intersection when you you're at the light you can look up and see it so uh north and south on a 116 it's really blocked uh you have to get really almost the intersection to be able to see it so again focusing on the third Corridor East West would be my recommendation if you want to have a logo on there uh so just looking at the size of our logo the type of our logo and then the length of our lettering if we were to choose tker instead the new logo you're really kind of just stuck with either three logos like what was represented or basically e West logo uh in my opinion and talking to the painting subcontractor or you could just do two core print space of e w they almost kind of wrap around as well because the name is so long so that's kind of the narrowing down of all the different ideas I I took my best stab at it um I didn't really make a recommendation I think personally it's what we want up there is really means more than anything if we want the logo if we want the name um or if we don't want anything we just want it to be a color that's appropriate so I'm an engineer and I'm not a marketer I'm not going to bear that hat but I think we did our best to narrow down the options that we have and I'd be happy to answer questions about any of it if you guys any questions for Kevin or discussion on it I'm an engineer and I've been a marketer but not so much on color selection uh I I think we should do the logo on either the two or the three I think we went through a long process to create it it's a good representation of what the city values and has been um and we we went through that process because we wanted to have something to put on water tower uh I think two could be adequate three would be nice uh I wouldn't consider the the text version though option three question I had to cost wasn't the one logo the same cost as three if we just put three porrons on it I remember numbers and such yeah so the the cost for a like a logo eight color logo is 14 just under 14,000 so if you did that's just the multiplier there if you did 14 14,000 time 3 is 42,000 each logo it's just under 14,000 and for each Corr it's 3500 and I thought we had set a budget of 15 we have a an allowance of so that was a guess 18 months ago when we put it together on averages uh I think we didn't know the biggest driver is the the number of colors in the logo more than anything right so by going from one Corrin to eight colors in the new logo that's where the where the expense goes up there is an expense there but when you're looking at painting the water tower in 20 to 25 years you're talking about a million dollars so I mean I would recommend putting up there what you want it is $10,000 more for a logo but in a grand scheme of things that's a fraction of the total cost of pain so I think again I would put up there what you want what you believe in over the money but money is the driving Factor there is a difference in the money too you know that's what we laid out here as some more cost effective options but they actually don't have to have anything on it right you you still have to paint it yeah okay so the painting is of that million dollars the painting of the logo is 10,000 out of a million it's a small fraction Dean and I will paint it next time I'm afraid of heights you're on you're on your own on this one that's 20 years from now going you can hold a r I'll hold her I'm not but as a fraction of a million dollars I'm trying to i' I'd be for the cork logo but only one I I would not want to put it I would not want to spend that extra money you're going to see from the intersection everybody else that lives around there knows where they're from they don't need another logo is my input at at 15 grand i' I'd rather just see one and I'd rather see the logo I originally wanted cor three Corrs around it but the logo turned out nice if you did want one which direction the north the corner 30 16 y okay right dire facing right to the southeast so the lower right triangle and all of the drive-through traffic that has to stop at that stop sign we'll be able to see that logo when they go east over West I just I'm that's that's me and nor South because primarily north and west would see it but you can look back yep I I'm not crazy about spending another 15 grand for another logo even though we budgeted 25 it's not 15 it's the Delta of right the Delta having the word Corin as opposed to the picture it's $1,150 difference difference per per buogo the difference between 14,000 3500 because you're paying 3500 for the corpin was the name you're paying 14 Grand for the symbol much your difference is really times how many you put up there and that's what I'm saying the name and the logo one 14 Grand right I mean personally my preference would be just to go with the name in two because part of my concern is there could be fading with these different colors they fade at different rates and then you've got things that aren't going to look as nice over time there could be changes in opinion from future councils that they want to change the logo corpin and then what do we do then we repaint it again and in addition while the logo looks nice it could be distracting for drivers that are driving up to the intersection and I don't want I don't want that personally if I was if it was my two cents I would go for option three other I'm going to yield my vote to the majority on this you don't want me to get my opinion on things such as labels and art okay fair enough um I I kind of came into it thinking between one and two um I think now I've kind of shifted somewhere between option number two and Dean's proposed option four I suppose um with the logo either East West or single loo kind of Southeast um could we pull oh the map is trying to think how much coverage we lose of or visibility of it we lose if we're doing the southeast versus the East West or so just the East I if you want my perspective it's it's the most visible from from Sunny Hill all the way to so of all the four angles as you're approaching intersection it's by far the most available R most available when you come through that intersection of Oakdale where that red dot is so you have the most time on the road seeing it so if you did face it just to the inter section you would lose that one minute or 30 second of drive time that's the most visible quarter by Far East B approaching that intersection so just because you're going across that standing that a kind of a low level flood plane there east of cane road so you do get visibility that way so I I'm indiffer on the number but if you're trying to actually put it somewhere people see the tower I would lean towards making sure that is a like the most visible cord I guess I'll just leave it at can I ask a question yeah ask a question sure for the um for the ladies that are here that work with the city do you have strong opinions on where this what on these water tower art do gender come into this well some are more artistic I I know for a fact that they are more artistic than all five of us that's a low bar that's a super low bar could could we could I make it come in C uh I I think coming in after the process was started I think it's important to note that the reason we have a new logo was this was the Catalyst thinking of putting this on here the whole reason for the development and the investment of resources in the logo was for the water tower I think that's important to remember well no that isn't what it was originally it was told us to had to be scalable for all signs and and stationary not not specifically for the water tower so it really isn't the water tower wasn't the Catalyst for the sign it was many things that was the Catalyst for the change in the logo so it was a catalyst in the sense that it needed to be done by a certain date so that it would match the timeline for the water tower but you're right there were other issues with the old logo besides right for other items before we move forward can I make one suggestion they wanted a they wanted a confirmation on a base color which I think is going to be the easiest thing to decide so my recommendation would go with the city staff recommendation of the tank white as a base color that's what I was thinking of I would agree yeah I have no concern with that um you want to make separate out the Motions then maybe if it's going to be different decision we I think we we make the motion I'll I'll start us and sort of just put the difference between the three and the one and I'll propose a motion to adopt option two with a combination of the tank white with a east facing and a west facing and the reason I'm selecting that for the first motion instead of a single is I feel like providing visibility from both sides helps to ensure that as these Parcels develop it'll be visible that they're part of corkran as well not from folks who are approaching from the West okay do we have a second I'll second it any further discussion on that see none all those in favor say I I opposed I'll see by vote with a majority there isn't the majority then then I don't get a vote okay so that uh fails fails y I'll make a motion for option three okay do have a second second that second any further discussion none all those in paper say I I post thanks you got to make a call John no I don't see here option four my big thing is the cost and the reason I went with what Allan said was it's going to be seven Grand compared to 14 Grand and and the logo discussion was related to yes this but was all the other signage and those kind of things so that's why I went with just the two court gotcha did you want to make a motion maybe on the the idea you came up with initially or I like cheaper more than go I wasn't picking picking up that's what you're I don't want our population to grow more than 10,000 because her trash will be different than all of this other stuff I could just rattle off all kinds of stuff I I want to be responsible with her money and and uh to go with two courts East West well yes I like the logo we'll see that in many many other places and such but uh Allen's Allen's conversation related to Future U the painting those kind of things how long's it going to last how long is it going to look it's I don't want to sore thumb sitting there in 8 to 10 years and we've got to revisit this again and spend more money I'll make a motion to put One logo on the North side so it's protected from the Sun yeah and is less likely to fade and wear sure do we have a second no all right that dies for failure of a second um do you like the white John I'm not voting on this have no interest uh and I'm totally unqualified have you ever your no I I don't pick the color or anything I don't pick anything I don't pick handles I don't pick room Pi which color shirt you're going to wear on a given day no I wear the same I wear white I wear the same suit and the same shirt every single workout Kevin could you do a or would it look to on how much wrap around the the Corr wording would have could you do a logo on one and the forr on the back end of it yeah I think you yeah I think if you wanted the only thing is the logo has corkrin in it so it' be kind of a little bit weird to say corkrin if it was a logo like a symbol you could mix and match yeah I just it's two different we thought about that we can change the font I didn't really want to but like I think the biggest thing is corkrin and then Corr the symbol that's why that wasn't one of the options we recommended that was an idea okay um it I think the work we can work with spacing I think you could get corkran where you could almost see it from every side like with two corkrin or if you just wanted one big cork I mean they're going to be pretty big that cork can wrap around quite a bit if you were going with the lettering if you're going with the symbol kind of maximized on there to really get full coverage 360 would be three symbols again the the visibility Corridor by fire County Road 30 for those that haven't fa East so that's why the recommendation was East West because it would be a little more symmetric yeah the only thing the only issue with the one I understand the thought process is just it's not symmetric and then when the city does develop over 20 years it's going to look decent now but it's going to be easy to question later because to some degree um We're Not Gonna s everyone's gonna have a different opinion of this quite honestly so symmetry some sort of justification of what your thought process was it's the easiest for us to explain as staff my personal opinion if anyone wants it I will leave if you guys want it I will share it otherwise I will stay out of it my personal opinion is just corkran is the most is the mo just the verbiage corkran is the most timeless that we have um it's going to last us the time the symbol is new to to show to Consumer Schultz's point no I don't think you could find anyone in corkrin that would argue that it's not corkin I heard it Timeless uh features at the treatment pl we want Timeless design I've never heard anyone say I'm not from corkrin we don't have school district we don't have fire station this could be the corkrin identity potentially so it's also the least expensive that I again I don't it's what you want to put up there that matters more than a fraction of a percent in 25 years so it's it's what you want that's the best I can offer you and then I have to turn it over but either way we can make it work there's no wrong decision but that's just nice what I would offer to try to summarize my thought process I vote for any I'm just trying to I'll make a motion um I like the idea of toiling in an anonymity so nothing on the water to okay we have a second that dies for lack of a second this is the first time ever for us guys this is an impressive one um can I could I add an opinion please do so I I would say that if you go with just the word corkran with the type of font that that is it's a very skinny font and the bigger you get on a on a font like that if if the font lines are going to disappear so it's going to be tougher to see from a distance when you have that font because the lines are so thin so if you go with the word corkrin only I would suggest looking at a different font thank you my life but not font couldn't tell you what font that is no times new Rob no could you use the same font that's in the symbol why don't just use the symbol what what if we did a monochrome logo we have single color designs that would lower the cost M my you're saying is that would lower the cost a lot well do it in black on the tank white yeah want to make that motion no no I've made two motions okay I'll make the motion that we do it uh the monochrome logo two locations east west facing I have a second Mr Mayor with respect to your rules can I ask a comment outsid uh not during the motion I want to respect rules appreciate appreciate um do I have a second I'd second that okay being it be less than $225,000 can I put that stipulation in we don't know that our original don't know the cost that I would I would stand 25 because I round it up a little bit I with my understanding if it's not we'd havein bring it back but I believe it'd be under the 25 with a single color Mr Mayor yeah could we hear his comment while we're in discussion sure you they come up now thank you respectfully I don't know what all the symbols are on the local but from where I'm sitting I can't tell can't distinguish what they are so I was wondering from a distance if you're sitting on any of those roads would you be able to tell what those are are they just going to be dots much like you see on your eye chart when you're having a difficult time reading it so it's a beautiful logo no disrespect to it in any way I just wondering if you'd be able to see the detail of it and if the answer is yes because it's large enough fair enough I just wanted to bring that up so appreciate it that's a thought appreciate it thank you thank you great input what's the height of the tank roughly you know 160 no I mean like yeah prep the hundreds I don't know I'm just gonna guess it's isn't it right there I just can't see it on the screen the height is about 160 so if you're scaling it 30 30 no I don't know I'm going to 30 stream 30 so we do have a motion in a second on that one the East West black logo with the the recommended color from staff the tank white de uh anything else on that otherwise I'll call the vote all those in favor say I I it's Kevin on the GD you count it we got there perfect and we can now go on to planning business um which we have a number of items specifically with 8A being removed we have 8 B um 8 C and D or public hearings we'll have a public comment opportunity for 8 B 8 e and 8f uh right now if anyone would like to come up up state your name and address and uh speak on that topic more than welcome to yes yep my name and I live at 625 half my lot drawing here what I would ask is the way it's drawing that ask the is the pool in my lot and I asked that you take the pool house of community lot put the back my lot and the pool facing the community that's and then since he's going to have to I'd also like him to make that one part of the fence private in and I've been there for a while what was your address 62 perfect thank you very much appreciate it anyone else do IOP yes yep yeah for sure any other people from the public want to speak on this or items 8 e or 8f okay okay if not then we will go into the presentation for AP mayor so the item in front of you tonight has a couple different components we have a comprehensive plan Amendment two zoning ordinance Amendment preliminary platten variance for Woodland bills next Slide the applicant is Woodland Hil cork Incorporated and the subdivision is located at the northeast corner of County Road 116 in pamore Road it includes 60 single family residential lots one commun recreational lot amen lot and five outlot the current land use so for the comprehensive plan Amendment the current land use guiding is low density residential which requires three to five units per acre the proposed pre-development density of this project is coming at 2.01 unit per acre so to address this uh the request includes a comprehensive plan amendment that establishes a new land use designation currently staff is just not being very creative and just offer very low density residential to go down but that certainly can be changed uh and the allowed development currently proposed would allow them to be at two to three units per acre can I ask you a question on that does that jive with what we had talked about after our met council meeting in like I don't want to because we talked about creating a new yeah I think it was just as creative a very low density yeah I think where I so is this the fruition of that I thought it was one to three I thought it went as low as one we can certainly talk about it um so the reason why staff at this time is saying two to three is because we right now our overall density in the Musa is 3.11 and we have to be very careful about the amount of land we're moving over to this new designation and we're going to so net acreage wise at one to three units per acre it we would hit three units per acre at 250 net Acres being moved over if we have two to three units per acre it allows us to move over 500 net Acres so is that include those calculations include the new potential velopment on the corner of so it's based off the 240 2040 data we're amending our 2040 data so final plat that come in for the 2050 plan we would definitely see how we can incorporate that but we have right now to get this approved by me Council and any other future amendments we have in this category we have to work work with our 2040 2040 data I had a question on this one um I I talked with Jay earlier this week on this one and he filled me in on some of the detail about how it's calculated and how we're required to use the lower bounds of the densities for each of the individual zones in that calculation to get to the 3.11 so I I had originally suggested one to three in my email the staff um Jay convinced me that a higher number makes more sense because we can do it over more area but I'm thinking now if we add a new Zone and I would propose something a little bit more creative than very low density but we can talk about that separately uh maybe we would want to increment up the lower bound of the next more dense Zone to create greater opportunity for the smaller density Zone to have more acreage so if you went from you know three to five to 3.5 to five because there's so much acreage assigned to low density residential I'm wondering if that might give us a little bit more opportunity to use say a conservation residential district that's you know one and a half to three or one and a half to three and a half well we can also certainly do one and a half to three as a compromise right now and then also look at that um I'll share that there's another application coming and it's going to have a very similar request so this won't be our only attempt to look at that I'm not prepared with those numbers tonight so that kind of Le me to two questions we could approve this at two two to three or whatever number and then look at potentially amending just that number with Council yeah we we could certainly look at we had more density to work with um roughly with this application and the other one you're talking about you know about acreage total so thankfully these this application next application we're talking about 60 Acres but I just I'm trying to think over the next three to five years where are we going to want to see additional acreage and I just wanted to give you guys the most flexibility because I know this has been a talking point for a few years sure no we've been trying to be able to have this kind of development and we get the flexibility of for this kind of development by working on the other side of it which is awesome that's what we've been trying to do for a long time so so my thought would be that we maybe look at the two to three for now as things come in that might be above our our estimated density or or the the average like a hope or whatever you know actually comes into this build that we can look and see how much we have to work with to move that number down so my understanding is that new development won't change that until 2050 when the plan gets reset because these calculations are based on the ranges not the actual values of development that's happened is that more or less correct until the 20 yeah but then it has to comply at that point in when you do the 20 again the Met Council changes how they calculate density every 10 years but if they do it the same way they did last time you will get credit for the extra density uh when you do your 2050 plan but you're right not in this inum period but we'll be able to plan according to what we have so if we have um residences on that were actually built then we would have flexibility from that point going forward in 2050 in the 2050 plan well we could yeah but could at least in my discussions with them if we have a high higher density we can approve land uses that go lower but still keep us above three that would be lovely I hope that that's true that's what we've been working on for like three years that was what the discussion was here and in St Paul on trying to figure it out that's one of the items need to come to a decision on items so I think you guys have a handle on so we can go to the next slide uh then the zoning ordinance amendment has uh two components one is what we typically call a rezoning so it's a map Amendment from what the current zoning as rsf2 residential single family 2 District to rsf3 this will allow for a smaller lot size of 75 500 square fet and a lot width as low as 65 ft additionally there a portion of the district description does specifically say it's for area guided low density so we need to adjust this to also allow for very low density or whatever the new naming convention is and then also I just took out where we specifically call out the density and just say it needs to match with the land use designation and the comprehensive would rsf 2 also have to have a similar amendment I caught that afterwards and I didn't the public hearing notice had nothing to really talk about the other areas so if this gets approved tonight staff does have it on their list that we would need to adjust rsf one rsf2 as well as our Park dedication table um so that would uh go in May okay thank you so this is a visual of the plat um as you can see there are two he saacks on East which makes sense with the natural features in existing neighborhoods in those areas and then we do have a through Street um as well as they are dedicating 30 feet of rway uh right at the very top uh to plan for a future roadway connection to County Road 116 that was something required as part of the feasibility study next slide for the preliminary plat we have 42 Lots with a lot width of greater than 75 ft and 18 Lots with a lot width between 65 and 75 ft we do have number of lot siiz variety with the plat it would require a variance needed for a s and a half foot side setback um currently the district requires a five- foot setback on the garage side and a 10- foot setback on the living side they're just asking for uh the basically to be evenly across the board especially when you have multiple build that can practic sense slide and then again there's one amenity lot with a pool and Seasonal Pool House the recreational facilities of a non-commercial nature are of permitted use in the district and staff including Public Safety continue to be concerned with no on-site parking as this lot is located in the far Southeast corner of the development of the end of a cuac where no parking is allowed so some on street parking would be permissible on the north side of the street leading for p act based on American Planning Association standards in previous approvals granted to rinia staff and the Planning Commission recommended three dedicated parking spaces one of which dedicated at the Ada space I ask a question about that um we've talked a lot about buffers and to the gentleman's Point who spoke um I think if you live in a residential area and the place next to you is own residential area there is an expectation of homes not um swimming pools that the whole association can use uh do we is this accounted for in any code or buffer or something because it's you know it's going to be loud and that's that's not an expectation of I think it's great but is there a way I I would I'd really to BU for it yeah I think putting that somebody else's back backyard is maybe a little lot of bones do you have buffer requirements that they that the plan needs to be updated to include and I believe we spoke with the applicant today they are looking at events in that area there is a significant grade change as well um and a retaining wall so I think that with landscaping and the fence that would help um I don't know how open they are to the gentleman's request to flip it it so that it's the clubhouse that ABS them versus the um I'm not opposed to that from the staff level um so I I think that there are some options that our court has already provided for that would allow for buffering between of for these properties well I'm concerned about the noise more than like if you have a house next to you with a pool it's not as if there'll be 30 screaming people in the pool most of the time during the summer but I will say it is a permitt use in the district so we don't have discretion with the use itself where we do have discretion is the parking what is the definition what is it that it there's a permitted use specifically for Home Association swimming pools and residential faal how is that it's not commercial it's not commercial because it's a private Community swiming pool they're not charging for admission yeah they are part of your homeowners association I'm serious yeah I would agree the homeowners association is a is not would you agree with that there so a homeowners association is not a commercial entity they're not for I'm gonna say it is and I'm gonna stick on that well then every Home Owners Association Clubhouse would be considered a commercial use and and I think it is it isn't though because we don't allow for that type of a commercial use in zoning districts for residential use I don't I don't think legally it's been defined as such argument could be made has it officially legally passed the muster of being I think generally that HOA isn't considered a commercial entity is they don't service tax of any kind right I I agree with John I'm I'm not crazy about it being next to that property but if everything is I agree with that if everything is there I understand what you're saying too but my input on this once we get the discussion is I'd rather see that someplace more centralized and such I think what makes it commercial is that it's private because looking at permitted uses we list parks playgrounds trails and other recreational facilities of a non-commercial nature and directly related buildings and structures and when I think Parks playgrounds and trails I'm thinking open to the public so the person Jason can use the parcel can I say something so so I think what might distinguish it is you don't have the opportunity living in that neighborhood to refuse to participate in the homeowners association uh when you buy a property it's under Ood that you have to be M so you couldn't say I'm not using the pool therefore I don't want to pay my fees uh those fees Encompass all of the things to include all all the other services they provide this is just one whereas if it was a commercial Enterprise just like a neighborhood pool everybody could say well I'll vote with my feet if I don't want to go to that pool you don't have the option to not participate in the fee structure you do have the option to whether or not you're going to use the amenity could they put a gun range there no there probably are homeowners associations in Texas that might have a gun range I I would say our gun I'm only saying that because regulations for the city though I I don't think you would be able to put so that would be a separate in theory I'm just saying the impact of the neighborhood of something like this is different they could put there they could put a recreational facility there for their loas yes it doesn't necess need to be but we have other neighborhoods where they have private playgrounds they have private B balls they just decided what pickle B pickle B I guess I won't get stuck on this let's move on this is preliminary isn't it yes okay next slide uh for landscaping of wetland the Wetland buffers need to be corrected in a few different areas and that is detailed in the resolution uh several Wetland buffers uh drop below the required minimum buffer width but the applicant is working on that and is whereare the additional Landscaping is needed on the amenity lot and again the land the applicant is working on that and enhanced Landscaping is needed along County Road 116 uh to be extended uh or the shown setback line for lot seven needed to be increased to 100 feet so that's something I believe they're going to add the additional landscaping for the most part the plan did meet the buffard requirements though some plantings need to be added along the Lin of each project boundary and we'll talk about about this more in the variances uh but however the applicant is concern again we'll talk about this more in the variance but there is concern with the long-term viability of the Landscaping plan in the buffer areas and um has requested to discuss that with you tonight as part of the variance request so there are three setbacks two of them were discussed with the concept plan and the feedback provided at the meeting had them proceed with a variance instead of a orance Amendment for these two issues so first one is the setback of 7 and A2 ft the applicant provided a detailed narrative as to why the request meets the Practical difficulty St standards outlined in city code staff believes that the requested setback is a distinction without a difference since a 15 foots building separation will still be maintained with the proposed setback and it does seem to make practical sense that a consistent side setback be applied to avoid coordination concerns with multiple Builders Sol City staff so the applicant offers a 25 foot front setback setback as a way to mitigate the impacts of granting the side setback and I I did can find out all it provided a plan TR that all Lots currently have 25% back can I ask a question yes is there is there an implication or reason why we just wouldn't have the ordinance to be 15 feet in total any which way you want to come to it I absolutely think that that is a change that we need to make uh when when as what came as concept to the council it was asked if they should proceed with a variance or zoning ordinance Amendment and it was said at that time to move forward in the variance program will the people on the exteror if the exterior of this proposal gets done first will they be aware of that they might have construction traffic as the interior of the neighborhood is developed hypothetically speaking so they won't complain constantly even though they had construction traffic in we have tried several times to include disclaimers as part of a requirement of a development as to what could go there teasing just I think this one also is can't speak to it but one or two opposed to eight or nine or 10 or whatever the are it just happens in every yeah for sure uh the second variance is for a garage the garage maximum percentage standard so we have the required that 55% the garage cannot exceed 55% of the front floor elevation and but they are their product type is likely going to include three if not four car garages and that standard will be quite difficult to meet so the applicant provided again a detailed narrative as to why the request meets the Practical difficulty standards and staff finds it may be reasonable to Grant the request it has been a common PUD flexibility particularly for three car garages and it really is a standard that makes more sense with two-car garages and and staff prefers that households have the ability to park their vehicles comfortably without relying on street parking because we don't allow street parking um for half the year essentially so the applicant offers a requirement that a second story be required in the 30 uh no 25 foot front setback again that's the table as a way to offset the impacts of granting the variant and then staff staff agrees with the Second Story requirement next slide wa the 20 the 25 already being offered as yeah 25 is an offer for basically both of them as a way to mitigate it and then the buffer yard flexibility was not discussed with the concept plan so this is a new request and the applicant again provided a very detailed narrative um and staff remains concerned that granting of variant that basically says we will come to some agreement on the Fly uh will lead to several more request requests of this meor as it won't be concern among applicants regarding the number of trees and best management practices with our ordinance um multiple options are provided to meet the buffer yard requirements and then if the council agrees that the tree survey and site photos show that some areas can either reduce the requirement or exempt the area then that would be as a wooded area then that would be a better route to go than granting a variant so summary of the remaining issues uh again the required parking for the amenity lot uh the buffer yard requirements specifically uh Wetlands 235 as a natural buffer we agreed that the large Wetland uh that's DNR protected was a natural buffer but the wetlands in the northern portions of the site we just need to confirm that they are considered an na buers uh the buffer yard on Lot 19 which is where that new ride of way is being dedicated for a future access on to 116 uh do we are we going to require a buffer yard on that lot um our code allows for it to be exempt if it's a road shown on our comprehensive plan but this is not a road shown on our comprehensive plan that's part of part of the argument right there as to how to treat that which one is this that that's lat 19 so we have this can go back few slides oh there it is so at the very top of the screen there is right of way being dedicated uh as a way to allow for a future plan and for a future Road connection to County Road 116 it's actually along the north lot line of that green lot so go no no yep it's that way area right there so that area that 30 foot right of way uh would have been a bucker yard but because they're basically asking is there any way to exempt it I heard my code I don't think I can because it's not a road on our comprehensive plan but it is a road that we are requiring as the city so um looking for direction on that or do we want to see an additional buffard planed on top of that is basically the question so go back to the summary slide um determination that portions of the north and east property line may be considered an existing wed area that either reduce is Demps the number of plantings for the buffer yard and then um buffer yard requirement on the amenity lot in addition to a retaining wall when I just talked with the applicant today it seemed like they were moving forward with just planning to plant that area and put a fence in that area um and then exempting Lots 13 and 14 these are lots that um they they AB but County Ro 116 but they're also placed very far and there is a lot of vegetation and wetlands between the rear facade in h 116 uh so basically do we want the higher architectural treatment on those rear facades because we think that they're going to be visible are we exempting them because of the existing vegetation they are not actually visible can I ask a question about that yeah on the other side of the road um did we Grant an exception to those homes right up against 116 not not right directly where the tow houses are CU they're not built yet but north of that on the we didn't have buff yeah not the buffer though the arital treat we did not so that's the standard we have those on the west side of 116 those those homes meet the standard for buffer and not for buffer okay on uh treatment because they AB but a road that should be the case you're talking about like the homes North the yeah property 116 you're going north you pass Hackamore there's town houses that are going to be built yeah and then there are more houses North on the west side yeah before you get so you look at their backyard and the they don't have decks yet so that's our expectation of what your facade of a home should be if it AB buts a major road so they have to here they have to do equal treatment as so I believe so I would have to I I don't know exactly what houses we're talking about I had I when I drive up I'm looking more at the single family homes that are directly along them that's what I'm talking about I believe so standard yes they want an exception to that standard well no not for for Lots 13 and 14 so it's along just two lot yeah two L that they aren't actually visible trees in that area fair enough okay thank you so do we agree with that or do we want the higher architect standards okay so that wouldn't require a Varian just saying that yes the existing vegetation makes it not visible and that should be that so the Planning Commission recommended approval of the project so the that included the comence plan Amendment for you that will require a 45th majority vote of the ordinance approving the zoning ordinance amendments and the summary ordinance for that will require Force to vote again uh then resolutions within findings of fact supporing the zoning ordinance amendments approving the preliminary plot and then it gets a little tricky with our variances so the Planning Commission approved the side setback variance or recommended approval of the side setback variance but they recommended denial of the garage maximum and buffer yard variance that is option a packet staff agrees with the planning cor recommendation except uh except for the variances we recommend approval of the side setback and the garage maximum for recommend denial of the buff and that is option b and that's I thank you very much any questions off the bat for Natalie otherwise um can I make a motion you can just as the Planning Commission recommended sure so let's that doesn't mean we won't talk about it anymore right I will just I'm just trying to clarify what the much so that would be to approve the comp plan Amendment as proposed yes the resoning summary uh ordinance publication findings of fact prary flat as is and option A was was Planning Commission yeah so that combo and so I'll just put that out there and then we'll have a discussion okay do we have a second on that I'd second it with discussion I do we probably want to hear from the applicant first y vote on it um but is there any thoughts on with that I'll go since I put it out there um I think that the uh the buff I met the applicant out there and the buffers that are there some trees are like ash trees and box elder and the ash trees are all going to die and but there are cherry trees and oak trees too and so I think we'd want to be selective in using existing buffer because we know that the trees are going to be dead and they're not trees we already have some trees that we want in our buffers and some that we don't so if they fit like the definition I know you said that this might some Cascade of people wanting to use existing buffers or people with that same exception and I think I'm okay with that exception um and then the other the other thing is that be it's different when you have when you're trying to say well we want you know seven feet between the houses and you're trying to put like 7,000 houses on 100 acres this they're just trying to design it in a way and um they're not using it necessarily to squeeze as many houses on there as possible they're just yeah so um that's my rationale for why I thought about that that one might that doesn't bother me as much as it usually do can I clarify something you said John yeah I thought I heard you say that you were sympathetic to the request to have the variance from the buff ordinance yeah but the option that you motion doesn't do that yeah I was Lo well yeah denies it oh I think we well I think they're asking for I think well I'm I we need to modify that then because I do want to deny specifically what they're asking for and sort of maybe some come up with something in between what they're asking for and yeah I my second I would suggest we vote this one down then just so that can get back to things slate fair enough all those in favor say I opposed because I I think that I wouldn't want to Grant what they're asking for either I think in some areas it makes sense to take sure credit but I think to your point along the western sorry the Eastern side where there's all the Buckthorn uh all that stuff's got to come out or will die on its own and I don't know that there's enough left there be an acceptable buffer the way sure it is but there could be partial credit for for something yeah I'm going to want to talk about some of the some of the situations of planting trees and in some of our um buffer requirements like I changed how I PL I've planted 4,000 trees now at my house and they used to be 8T apart and I'm moving them them to 10t apart okay um for some of the reasons that are outlined and some of some of the we've had people say that maybe they're too close and they're going to die I think I want to think about that and talk about that also none of us are ultural horticulturalist but I think we theistically look at that I was just going to say before we have more discussion that we want to hear from applic I think so you like to come on up now W sit to Mayor and city council representing the developer here tonight um before I get going I want to ask based on your conversation just had about the water tower when we get around wanting to come up with a logo you guys up helping us with not not me joh will pick paint colors perfect so as Natalie said I won't reiterate a lot of what Natalie said simply because of the the hour we're at but we looking at a 61 lot subdivision we have 60 of them for hes and one for amen lot um a number of walkouts 41 walkouts out of those so certainly over 2third of the lot of walkouts so looking at a fairly fairly high quality neighborhood um with amenities the amenity lot as well as for Association that will also have architectural control over the houses so not only will the the city's requirements of how close you can have SAR houses but we also look at that as we look through the the the plans when they come in um simply comp plan whatever density ranges you come up with as long as it's supposed to each that I'm okay with that of course um so if it's one and a half to three or two to three I for you guys to decide resoning Bas zoning rsf2 is certainly not what we want that's what it's currently is our sub what we be looking for for the for the lot to be at least minimum of 65 that doing a lot seven and f um the three variances um first seven and a half seven and a half I think that's fairly well expl explained by either five and 10 so 15 you get s half 15 so the end result you get the same thing it just allows more flexibility for the builders to garage left garage right because ass Su with the five and 10 once you set it it pretty much stays the same the whole time not saying it won't anyway but this allows a little B more flexibility when Builders come in to start looking with their buyers to how they want to position the house in the line the second one um with the the garage the percentage of the garage elevation um I think the recommendation would have not allowed that that would cause us a a major problem trying to put the houses that are being proposed out here would be built out here on 65 and 75 if we don't have that flexibility to do more garage and again with the Second Story I think you drive through the neighborhoods that have been done with this size lot that size house um yes you're going to see the garage but it's not dominant as you might think with such a large garage so I would ask that you you grant us that variance to allow that that higher percentage of garage in that first elevation the the trees certainly first of all thank you all for either talking to me or meeting me there individually and least listening to what I had to say and seeing seeing what's existing out there I I I think I've resigned myself to the fact that and I never was going to say that we weren't going to do landscaping because Landscaping helps us and certainly when we're out there we point into some areas that we're going to want a landscape just because there's open spaces between our property and the adjacent properties I think what we're all asking for this including staff and us is what will be allowed to be counted as an existing tree and what won't I think that will be the key and not only species I understand Ash won't be allowed to be counted I get that but we've got some cherries but we've got some cherries if you look at the plan that are 8 in or larger that's what they typically survey but you walk out there there's probably 30 40 50 more trees out there that are between the 2 and a half and 8 in if they're not Ash but those count as well because that's typically the size of the tree that we would plant if we if or when we aut to The Bu area quick question are those on your property or on the neighboring property so I'm going to P up here here we've got a lot more on our property up there there there really isn't much so I think up there and even the landscape plan that's been submitted between here and here meet your or so I prob resign sounds like a bad word but I understand that that's what's going to be planted here it's what will count along here when we when we go back to relook at what what the design should be okay um Wetlands this is wetland 2 I think this plan it was discussed that because of the distance didn't need didn't have to have bumper landscaping around that this is wetland three I think it's not certainly as much distance but there's a distance from here to here the vegetation of the Wetland is such there are some trees that are in the Wetland we're not going to touch those trees I would like you consider us not having to do it and buffer along here this is wetland five and here it's several few hundred feet and I will say virtually every tree from here to here is non Ash so this area is going to have some fairly heavy landscaping existing trees so to require buffer along here I'm not quite sure it provide us a whole lot of additional benefits so those are the three the one W Wetland that is not shown on well as Wetland eight down here that's still being discussed by the the your water resources people and whatever and it our issue is water drains from here goes into the pond we're picking up water from Hackamore as part of the deal we had with the city this Wetland is causing us a lot of issues of trying to create the best time to collect all the water to clean it control it and so to get it out if we had to save that Wetland it's going to create design issues that I'm not sure we're going to be able to actually satisfy so if there's anything the council can do to help us allow us to fill 11,000 s ft of wetland in that area that would be beneficial to the project as well as storm water flow and control throughout the site uh the amenity lot you know that we don't get to have control over weapons right technically you do technically you are the lgu yeah but they're not our rules that's incorrect but the city still has the right to to weigh in on whether rules interpreted but the rules are whether or not that can be filled or the little ones up here can fill that is a staff decision Cas consultant's decision and I was on the Watershed and I was part of that transition and they are an lgu that has more power than we do to do what you're asking us to do and they can xay that they make the rules and they're pretty heavy-handed with us as a city you may not know that um so it's it's a big ask yeah I get it I I just want to because I think in the end of the day that Wetland isn't serving a whole lot of environmental purpose and US mitigating at two to one someplace else in Hanan county is a better benefit to the whole for the whole area understand yeah so is anything you going to do amenity lot reality is it's not the best lot to build a house on I I will admit that so putting the amenity down there does serve us a purpose is it to too far from somebody over here to walk there it's maybe 4500 half a mile I don't think that's too far for people to walk to go for swimming it is open F between basically the four months in the summer it's not a year own facility we do have to landscape not only do we have to buffer do the buffer ordinance like every place else but we also have to do trees based on the amount of of site perimeter my calculation is we'd have to put 16 overstory trees on that site six understory trees and over 30 shrubs so it will be very heavy landscape we got right now it's shown us about 45 ft from property line to the edge of the edge of the pool deck in that area we have the landscap we do sh Show retaining walls because they're over 4T High we already have to put B up so there certainly will be a fence there to go from a a metal fence that we typically do to a wood fence that's that's certainly understandable we'll look at switching the possibility of doing the buildings on the east side versus good then sure on the lastest side we'll certainly take a look at that but we think it's a good good amenity to provide for the neighborhood and the rest of the lots are better Suited for houses and aves you don't Mr Mayor go ahead you don't think you're going to have any issues related to it not being more centralized no with no with all of the uh home owners that are going to be in this about regarding the parking yeah the parking is a big deal our our preference would be not to do parking the neighborhoods that we put together we don't most of them don't provide theity likees people walk and this isn't an uncommon distance for people it may look like it because of the site but the site isn't that large to start with 60 lot subdivision is a pretty small subdivision a lot of them are 200 Lots plus and even if you put it in the middle it's still the distance is similar in those neighborhoods so our preference would be not have the parking there so i' ask you to take a take a consideration of that what about the request of the building being at the end instead of we'll take a look at that that's the best I can do at this point I mean I understand what he's saying about rather than the buildings here the pool here take the pool here and the buildings there we'll take a look at that what do you mean by take a look at that because once tonight's done you have no obligation to take a look at it it's some Brut well can you clarify what you by take a look at that you I don't know we brought up the ameni center at the Planning Commission meeting with you about it that issue was not well I I don't recall that kind of a detail in that you like it or don't like it or yes or no I don't know if we showed the you and I and council member Baron Camp had a conversation back there after the meeting was over concept my mind was yes so I mean we've talked about it we expressed the concern about it I do think parking is going to be a major issue um I can't see a mother pushing a stroller and a little kid walking behind her coming from that cuac down there if she can't park on that street or in a parking lot she's going to park in Hackamore Circle and walk down the sidewalk to get there that's the closest R water we don't want that our H Act is you say you can't do it I understand you're but your HOA doesn't control Hackamore Circle Hackamore Circle the street next street over but because of the yeah people if they really want will figure out a way to do anything well that's what we want to avoid we want to have it confined in that area so is there any option to move the amenity Center to another lot maybe maybe if one of these smaller Lots over here as you first come in the development always an option the issue we've got is I don't know what's Happ if we lose a lot because of a manity lot on a development lot does it affect the den City to a point where we've got an issue but because of the constraints of this lot it it really doesn't it isn't suited for house to be built up so we would lose a lot and it's an economic decision does the pool does that amenity need to be part of this Community Builders that we've talked to have asked that to be included if we can does it have to be doesn't have to be but it is an amenity that the Builders of this price ranged housing feel that it does help sell me in the neighbor guess I'm I'm having trouble with the lack of how that looks a consideration of it looks in terms of an approval f you were and also process-wise if we were in favor would Bas about the parking what options would we have it's not a variance for this for the parking yeah so for the parking it that wouldn't be a variance so for nonresidential in terms of housing so non-housing uses um we have a table of the required parking and when we don't have the specific use cost out we really don't have a clear use called out for a private community swimming pool um we go be are able to kind of negotiate the parking so we can say uh as a city that um I I provided a few different formulas in staff report and that's where I landed on two to three I really think I really think at least one adaa space right and um potentially one or two more would make sense with the size of the community especially comparing to what we've done inia right um however Council has the ability to disagree with that and say that no parking be required for no offsite no dedicated parking space need to Beed instead condition in the resolution so it wouldn't be a variance to remove that condition okay thank you so if you're a if you're a 16-year old kid and you park in Hackamore Circle to go to the pool because that's the easiest there's no parking but you can go to heck Circle in park and walk to the full in short order there's no mechanism for us to actually enforce like we can't as long as they're parked legally on that street yeah we can't so they're going to be I I suspect there'll be a ton of cars parked on that street yeah my concern I think you also know it with me having young son I would imagine Aaron if we lived on the northern half of that development wouldn't walk with the baby car you drive yeah that is a concern I think a couple two three lots the Ada potentially for service and for trying to mitigate on street parking in other neighborhoods do we allow on street parking on on Hackamore now so they wouldn't be a there's no there's no no Park sign HCK just hackamore in general but we don't have signage up for that probably not installed yeah I think we just did a temporary needed signage for the winter okay yeah what's but hackam more Circle they yeah they could that would be my theory what's going to happen yeah that's why I'm rolling with that mayor could I a question so so after the commission meeting uh we had spoken and and I came away with a different impression than what I saw tonight I I actually came away with the impression that you were going to look at moving the amenity site uh and and we had talked about one of these sites did those discussions happen and were just seen as unfavorable or did they not happen because I I thought I came away with that impression that you were gonna you were proactively trying to find a different location for that after the gentleman spoke at Mission yeah answer the question we we look at it just the fact and it was one of these three lots um but those three lots are you can build a better house on those three lots than that one so as of right now our preference is still there because of the economics and what the builders can build on this lot versus put another if you had to choose between not having an amenity site and one of these three sites you suspect that they keep the amenity site if if if you were to move oops I'm sorry if you were to move the ameni site to one of these three as we talked after the commission meeting uh do you think they choose to do that or or to forego having an amenity site because of the economics that you're just speaking up I think as of right now they will say that they they would prefer building a house and not having the thanks CL I would also prefer that do people there's a five or six or seven space parking there's a little lot and then there's on street that indented I used to ride bike hours but I don't remember anybody but you would have experience if people actually park at your pool yeah there's usually some cars there because it's also got a little structure that people room right r y yeah or Reserve I think but the people that live by the pool then understand there's going to be parking in front of their home people across the street I guess understand that there is across the street in that parking lot and the couple in spots yeah I haven't heard complaints on that specifically well the ameni the difference there too is your amenity Center was built in the middle of your development true before really a lot of those homes were built for sure and they can walk across I mean one benefit is that you can just walk across the street you know you accept that other people park there do you yourself have to just walk across the street yeah I don't expect it'll be an issued for the five houses down there but I don't I don't I I think it would help them sell the having a amenity Center but that's not necessarily our our job to make a decision based on that but in but I'm more concerned about the impact to that other neighborhood yeah perhaps if they had parking there it wouldn't be such a concern could mitigate it yeah well if they put parking there I'm assuming that takes away from their screening to the existing neighborhood to the east we C we had to put three parking stalls we put them down at here they're come off the street and the setback here is 25 ft so even from the street it probably comes here so there's still going to be area okay I think that's I would recommend parking yeah about this staff suggested with two and one88 itation of flipping pool building um I do like the idea of potentially the the wood fence you talked about um I don't know if we could amend that into anything requiring for the pool the or some sort of higher lower op higher opacity that could be something you factor in as a mitigation on the buffering I think I think when we talk about the talk about screening I think we could say defense and that's what you were planning to defect but I think I'm hearing that they're agreeable to that change so let me look at what condition that is great um any other questions um question thank you um well notal looking at uh I guess speaking to the the uh comprehensive plan item first do we have the neighbor would like to speak that's okay Mr Mayor sure and I live on half circles and you're correct they would park on the circle because it's a quarter mile from my house or edge of my lot to the end of 116 that's just a quarter mile when you go up to here I be another quarter mile if you have four kids you're going to watch with four kids and snacks and all that I doubt it if you do put parking you are you going to have to have handicap SP yes yes that's what we he talks about economic you know what about my lot my neb is Lots on me so and I've been there for 32 years that circle's been here for as long as I've been there yep we realiz consider economics we realize that what levers do we have if we wanted to get that to move permitted use in the district yeah I I I don't believe if we are agreeing with everything else in terms of getting us to the point where we're doing straight zoning the lot meets the minimum requirements for a house that's for something that's not a single family house meets the minimum width in the minimum lot square footage they are provid providing the required buffering so I don't believe there is a lot of Leverage try to mitigate by we can add add conditions to it but that yeah in terms of the parking and the Landscaping but I don't believe we have an ability to say that a permited use can't go on a lot that meets minimum standards what about the condition of the request the neighbor made about having the pool the building on the other side flip flipping that is that a condition that we could we can't condition the plot right yeah that makesense the only thing really in our discretion is the first listing item on that screen the comprehensive plan Amendment and the resoning and the resoning so if you really feel strong enough about it that's where you stop and you don't even have to talk about the rest of it really but then also keep in mind that the next thing I could come in could be netive across the street or something that's maybe a more intense use that's why I'm hoping the applicant would really consider moving that they could build a bigger house finding that lot in ener lot and build a bigger house on that lot and then move it over to the other lot that would help with his economics and it would help with mine originally the concept drawing originally had that house was going all the way to the end of that and then you said that they couldn't put that call SA small call sack there so I was all set the house was the house I I figured to be a house I didn't figure I was going to have a community pool with well six houses or 60 houses or in a house they have 240 people sitting out and it's a little more than just can I ask a question for staff that recommendation is there a reason why you can't I'm assuming it has to do with access and limiting the amount of accesses but couldn't you in theory disconnect that called the act from the street that goes north south and have that end of that CAC in by that by that water area over here and have that culdesac access off the street or is there just not enough room to make a 90 degree turn in there not sure basically basically take and flip that culde saac so it dead heads to the west and doesn't connect so it has so you make that a Bild a lot I I see what he's doing take this Colac and put it here in a a this here into that col that bind anybody well that makes that ail of a lot I mean well if you didn't make this call sack we you put a rad right about here what oncle You' be one house between two point that would create safety issues in the long term of collector is where it has to be they're not able to impact that Wetland it's a DNR protected Wetland uh months of North that's why it's kind of the constrained area that they're trying to make the most out of I'm looking at the rule on homeowners associations and whether they're a business or not okay there are multiple rulings on whether what it takes for a homers Association to be held as a for-profit entity part of it comes with uh exceptions according to Commissioner versus Lake Forest denied exception to social wealth organization because the organization didn't benefit the public at large nor was it contri contribution of a public character Court looked at look to the benefits provided and not the number of persons who receive benefits through membership like it's not case it's not like determining that is case has case law precedent throughout American history I don't want to take I I personally would like some legal advice as to whether or not a home ERS Association pool is should be exemp exempt from um the permitted uses permitted uses and if they're asking for um combine with it if it's not right next to something else I think we would have some we should have some flexibility on that based on that I think it's business for the use and purpose for people specifically that live in that area I don't know how we get that advice short of could you say it one more time I'm typing it to okay well we I think it's okay to sit on an application for a meeting I I it wouldn't be the first time we waited two weeks to get a it to do it all the time and I don't have a problem sitting and uh I like the application I want some clarification on a couple pieces of it before I want to make a decision I am not available April 11 and April point do the review that is that the 60 day or is that that I believe day so but we don't need your input necessarily if you you've given it on if we've narrowed the scope of what we're going to look into just that yeah could you make that sentence one more time please Council if if oh I just said we we don't necessarily need Natalie after the April 11th meeting to make a decision on determination of whether Comm property owned by an HOA is a we've gotten everything else settled tonight yeah we just been waiting on one answer if we can't do anything about it we can at least buffer it out put parking spots if we can do something about it then we okay so let's see if we can get to an agreement on everything else and then we can look at that does that make sense I I would ask uh how for clarification for staff uh how you would foresee the legal opinion impacting the decision so if just just so that I have a clar clarification on uh if if this is a key decision Point as I'm understanding it how would the outcomes look different depending on the feedback that you got from legal opinion I think I would question whether it's a permitted use inside residential whether a business is a permitted use inside a residential Zone and I I question spe very specifically um whether a um entity what an entity owned by an HOA limited to the people who live in that HOA so so if I may Express a concern I'm new here but uh have we established precedent by having another development with a similar but much larger with more amenities uh facility in there would we open up no I know I'm just yeah you're right I'm I'm just asking we've already made a decision that the council has established we did set yeah I know I we did I'm just thinking aloud not that's why I'm asking how how the decision would look different we already said yes to somewhere else but then we find out some I mean that was a PUD I know so that's also what I'm thinking about because have we ever not had it be part of a PUD no but they do it is a use that is allowed because we allow private Parks we allow private courts it is a private pool that's blown by an HOA we don't the peties don't specifically call it out as a use that is being allowed that's not typically allowed called out as a use that is a permitted use in these districts it is recreational facilities that are not being not available to the public in terms of a fee so I think we're commercial utility we're kind of in a pickle where they're only like I think this this this this thing is so close to being just right at code that um that they could probably just make it to code and it would pass tomorrow we'd have no choice is it do you agree with that I mean it's almost per code they could change it 8 lots and then put an amenity lot right there just to be difficult and we have to pass it then it would match density potentially I suppose but but I I kind of would like to just so we have to this you guys sake we the five of us can't go to one of our houses like on Tuesday before the meeting and have this discussion it all has to come out in right in public this is the first time the five of us have talked about this so like when you sit around with your friends and you brainstorm ideas and then you say oh this this is a good one this is a bad one whatever we have to do that in front of everybody so we kind of just have to discuss things as they come out come up and that's just how it goes it's ugly sometimes that's how the sausage gets made for sure um so I I'm just thinking a loud of how we accomplish some things and I don't think that's a way we can do it thank you Jay for the clarification question because um I don't think that there's much we could do I would like the I would like the parking spot may I ask one other question and potentially of the applicant so so I was just looking at the distance of this and and what what if you were to and I understand that this might be a pickle what if you were to flop the amenity position for this lot right here so just looking at the distances and the square footage of the Lots the orientation of the house might be a little bit hinky there might be something different but with with the stalling on this particular issue I looked at all the other Lots through your development this one on the end appears to be the closest to similar square footage that would solve the neighbor problem uh you still have some ability there for some parking and that would resolve the issue that that is at hand any thoughts on that sir mayor Cil I don't know if I got an answer for you unfortunately the only reason I I start thinking in my mind and and yes there's a lot of retaining wall to make that one work this is a walk out lot if we were to move it I would say we probably would move it to one of these if we if ultimately if it was our choice and we were to move it we'd probably move one of these because these are flat Lots grading it doesn't it works out a lot better frankly these are craw space Lots so they can't even have full basements so it may make sense to go there so if if you're cons concern is how this lays out I would ask that you say that we have to have three parking stalls and the buildings have to go on the east side then we go back and make our decision if that's going to work for us if it doesn't and we need it place to put it I will say one thing you're not really seeing is the amount of bucker setback that they have too so that it's a really thin amount I don't think the house changing uh just simply changing the orientation of a house going have a house fit on that lot that makesense you probably don't have enough trying to solve the problem probably not it's just kind of an awkward can they can they just cement in one of the ponds and call it a community center they've been having a lot of issues with our tep board with getting rid of one Wetlands I think they have a hard time I'm just asking so station aable to flipping it the building potentially if that's the condition you place that we have to have the three parking stalls one of them in the adaa and that the building goes on the east side understandable we have to go work with put the fence in that how tall is the retaining wall that you talk about highest point is about 7 ft fence on top fence on top so it does kind of sit in the hollow if I remember the topography and over in that corner it's you're going to whittle it all out and you're going to leave a pretty decent wall yeah well this here you got the storm sewer that was put in by the city's hackmore property that'll certainly stay we go east of that we'll go up with the wall to bring the grade up yeah then there'll be a p on top of that of those so paragraph 11 we say the amenity lot swimming pool and full house will require off street parking spaces including one handicap space um and then you can just add on to that sentence well so 11a we could create a new paragraph that says the U the the structures need to be reoriented so that the clubhous is to the east with the pool the west and then um paragraph 11 I'm sorry paragraph 12's STI would be a new paragraph that says privacy fence will be required on the amenity lot as part of the public C I will make a motion to amend resolution 2427 as Natalie displayed on okay any discussion can I can I ask a question I wish Matt was here to ask this too but does Public Safety have anything in their magic bag that if we find out there is a parking issue on Hackamore Circle in the future that we can restrict it to like residents only I was going to ask could we could we do no parking Park on your road I can tell you there there's no way we've T we've come across this 20 times on Council you can't restrict parking on public streets unless you do it on all of them well also on yeah call yeah we couldn't restrict it from this neighborhood parking there we could anybody can drive on them anyone can park so the concern is from Hackamore Circle Hackamore Circle so there's going to be a fence and a retaining Wall's public there's a public Trail along I see what you're saying so my fear is they're going to park and walk down the trail because they only have to walk past his house to get to the pool that's a much shorter walk to do that then push your child stroller from this far culdesac down aren't they going to just park on the street there so there would be there is some on street parking that on the street and then if we have three spaces I mean rinia has I believe five parking spaces and some on street parking that's what we're hoping so I think three on street should be sufficient particularly since five of the houses are for sure going to walk like I don't see them want to dve but I I I thought you mentioned that you don't allow parking in your HOA on streets we don't allow the parking for the people that are going to the amenity lot but we do I mean certainly if people have friend over in that department you know more than I mean the staff's point yeah how do you control that staff's point is that they allow parking on the street the honest truth is it's never come up it's never been an issue because the people don't typically drive to these well these are city streets they're not private road right you you would have no control at all L to where people Park yeah well The Hope is with those spots and the three that that mitigates it enough it's gonna mitigate okay my concern was the comment you made that you don't allow parking on streets it was to the amenity we don't allow people to go par there for lot but you right because there's no parking in cue well we but even if it was here but you'd never know but I if if I if if I lived on one of any one of those lots I could park out in front of my house yes yes you yes absolutely thanks for clarifying we did have the motion and the second and the discussion on there anything else on that one more discussion just for the neighbor I'd ask the question does anybody Park on your road down to the CAC now in your neighborhood no with all that driveway there's no reason to I've been a slow truck driving through your neighborhood just checking it out because you are next to this so yeah I'm I'm asking that it's something that we would need to Monitor and if it starts going we'd have to make a call there somehow some way so okay on the amended resolution all those in favor say I ious so now amendment made but not adopted correct yep that was the changes that Natalie F out for us um regarding what do we want to pack here next uh screen or do you want to haveck do it in a different order no that's fine um we actually go back one slide and just make sure we have we have the many office done we are okay with Wetland serving as a natural buffer we considered any of those Wetlands As Natural buffers I was okay with those three yeah do we want a buffer yard onl 19 in addition to the right away that staff and the feasibility study require is is so is that buffer yard on the north side of Lot 19 yeah yes looking at the plan things they're already putting the two required overstory trees what more would be required if they for La 18 we would I need the calculations but it be so there'd be some understory and some shr requirements I believe and we're talking along that right here L 18 it's in the top that future Access Road yep no I'm right I'm in the right place right property to the Northwest decided yeah So eventually it would be a ro it' be part of the RO right well the way that they're laid out now the overstory trees are on the lot itself rather than the bu well sorry in the right of way no the plantings themselves are not the buffer what I'm looking at is this one I'm sure you can't see it from where you are but the trees are on the lot side today looks like they're close they should be on the lot yeah they they are they're they're not in the right of place they're outside of they they wouldn't need those plantings if the street was going through so if this so if we weren't requiring the street they would have to provide a buffer yard and I believe they're doing detail a approximately about 30 or 20 or 30 foot buffer yard um and then for the buffer yard along the north we require so every 100 lenal feet require like three under story trees I'm sorry six under story trees think three overstory trees and nine shrubs for 20 foot wide buffer and so that's what they have on the N detail a if we weren't requiring the road that looking be extended to the West so that it covered Lot 19 okay the argument we're requiring them to put that right away there they didn't want to put that right away there do they really need to do a buffer yard in addition to the space they've lost with that 30 foot right away are we confident that however if when those properties buop that's where that street would have to go because the space is so limited yeah that is for future planning um so so that it is actually a viable option you're trying to mitigate the impact on the property that's going L essentially or the group of properties that would be going last so we are very confident that that is where the space and requirements for the county would allow that road to go e the count is requiring it to be in location then I'd say there's already a ton of trees on that northern border I'd say it's okay then I mean it's i' agree um I think we should um add something real quick then just to specifically exclude it well what are we going to do to make sure that the appropriate amount of trees would be cut down and the appropriate amount left I'm not all that excited about clear cun that northern part of that lot that's a separate one that's a separate it well we're only talking about right here yep no that's what I'm talking about is can you require it's hard to see the overhead as far [Music] as where the exact future road is going to be and how many of those trees will be affective I can show you I'm right there already John can you require can you require him to leave everything that's some in future setback Road right away one better and then not have buffer because then those trees would be gone think have ability we just have to gr it there if they're putting a road there I believe I said we could theoretically Grant a buffer yard Vari toing team and um so that could be part of is that they do need to have some plantings in the right of way because our buffer yard Ordnance doesn't allow trees in the right of way so that would be something we're specifically allowing until to the road I put that out so we would have to change that variance that that we could probably have come back at a later date I've have not provided findings effect to that VAR okay but I could have that for um to go on consent for April okay that would work when we have more items on that as we continue to the rest of the list um yeah bring back the other list get yeah okay so determination that portions of the okay so how we want to handle the Northeast property lines I think the north we're less concerned about at this point is really the East Boundary uh if any of those areas want to have trees that aren't uh um Buck born or Ash reduce the tree planting requirements or we're exempting it as wooded area basically in the in the Green Space right here the amenity lot I'm saying needs to really it's this area that we're talking about can I ask the applicant a question sure what do you know you and I went out there but I don't want to just I don't I I don't want to say that's not Buckthorn and Ash because that that also will inor like box elder is not we never accept box selder as a um as a acceptable buffer but are there are there um from what you recall would there be Are there specific tree types that you think should uh be included as M uh meeting the standard of the buffer I know there's a lot of cherry there's Cherry there's Aspen yeah there there's Elm Elm used to be aad but I'd say along here the ones that were actually survey are ash Elm cherry and Aspen and understand the ash AR good count yeah so can we limit the ones that will count to be I I would propose for something to count should be on their property yes not the neighbor's property y we talked about that too should be bigger than two Ines caliber and it should be anything other than Buckthorn well you you want to go any other not the list the ones that we could do that too I'd be fine with that probably i' prefer but I think size and location are key yeah to be part of that that's ad I agree with that I'm sorry I'm sorry what what species did we want them the we wanted he said Elm Aspen Cherry okay are there are there can we I can't remember if there any Oaks but I I would like to add Oaks okay yeah I mean that's the thing right the 8 in ones we survey don't include Oak but if we go in there we might find a few Oaks that are three and a half in yeah language like or similar as deter or anything on one of the city's tree lists yeah anything on the city's tree list or similar species that are on are you is that okay okay and what do we need to amend to get that in so I'm going to I'm gonna say we can probably approve everything else tonight but the variance once the Varian will need to get handled on consent but um the final pla is contingent upon various approval or things get adjusted so I'm not I'm not worried about having that be separately approved um and I will come back with findings of fact that approval buffer ordinance uh variance and to include this change lot perfect so that handles screening buffering um T parking uh Gage the remaining one I have to look at the bottom one too the exemption on lot 13 and 14 I would my initial thought that is we do not exempt it if we have talking road but I think the difference yeah they're way off the road was the intervening trees between these homes and the county road which isn't def factor for the Tara homes tremendous tremendous number of trees in their backyard just for that lot I thought was it 13 that was the Northerly one 1 14 there is a significant amount of trees in that Wetland area I'm with that um are they gonna they're not planning on tearing down the trees though right no this is about the architectural no I know but if they tore down the trees then that would what we yeah they were all trees that were on their preserve lists um we could put a condition that l 13 and 14 are exempt from being treated as architectural um so long as they as long as the tree is in that area are not REM trees yeah yeah and where would that be amended to um so I think we would just add that below the amenity Lots we add AOG graph I'll make a motion to amend resolution 20427 as laid up by Natalie for that second any discussion all those favor say I okay uh then the parking I or the I'm sorry the garage percentage any thoughts on that feedback that similar yeah I I would say the the it was asked at concept plan whether or not they should proceed with a zoning ordinance Amendment or a variance and the council Direction at the time is to proceed with a variance because they wanted it you wanted to look at it on a case- by case basis and so um that's how they've proceeded so I would recommend that we move forward with approving that variant and uh it's certainly on staff's list of things you would like to look at as a rul so we can potentially avoid flexibility and variance requests to the standard uh in the ordinance as drafted Does it include language that was the language that was suggested as a from the applicant to up yes to require a second floor yep um and then the 2 I don't mind I don't mind ask asking for a variance and I don't in this case I don't mind granting it either right the I think the buyers are going to be pretty pretty finicky so if it looks stupid they're probably not gonna buy the house right um so I'd be fine granting this one okay so I will prepare a resolution of approval for all three Varian is for April 11 okay so we we can approve that at that point the rest not dependent on yeah the rest we can do today okay any other items that you guys want to discuss otherwise I will entertain a motion to approve resolution uh 2024 25 approving the comprehensive plan Amendment adopt ordinance 2024 uh why don't you read it why don't you make a while you're you got to read them anyways you might as well make the motion I'll make the motion to approve the resolution 22425 or adopt ordinance 2024 518 uh approving the resoning to rsf3 adopt summary ordinance 2024 519 for publication approved resolution 2024 uh 26 with findings of fact support supporting the Z ordinance Amendment and resolution 2024 27 as amended second any discussion my only discussion is when we have to touch this again in May that actually add the very low density um I'd like to suggest that staff um considers it a conservation zoning rather than a very low density zoning the title should align with our goals yeah and that could be decided at a later time I yeah I second was confused with the motion the title of the comp plan district oh yes what would you like it to be called we have to decide on that tonight with his approval okay I have to send it to what was your suggestion uh conservation housing conservation conservation residential is what she conservation residential thank you it's getting too late that's much better verbiage for people oh they're conservationists oh we we we could call it affordable housing meeting requirement it is go so do you need to edit something on this then amendment to sorry we would have to do that on resolution 20242 and resolution 2020 I'm sorry ordinance 2024 518 can be a friendly since yeah I will accept that at a friendly second to also do that any discussion all those in favor say I I thank you very much thank you thank you does anyone need break or you want to power through yes please okay we'll take a five minute recess back your short officially call the meeting back to order uh we'll go into 8C which is a public hearing for T fourth edition e vacation I will go ahead and open the public hearing if like to speak on it head up to the mic and state your name and address um Mr Mayor would it make sense at all to give K Kendra's presentation before the public he so that people might have on their request sure he only for slid one to show the image so perfect let's do that so let's draw the opening of that for a moment I'm just struggling so for the fourth edition um vacation this is H for two of the town home lots on the west side of the project if you go to the next slide um that is one of the lots and lots 10 and 11 in the second edition of Tara FL and uh between the preliminary plat and final plat we widened the easement between the two um on that shared lot line for a deeper storm sewer and at the time the tiny encroachment that we're talking about was myth when they came in for a building permit we realized that a tiny corner and you see in your pocket how tiny the corner is encroached engineering looked at it and said we can vacate that little corner less than a quarter of an acre um of land and uh so they have no objection it's a 0.25 square feet on one lot and 089 square feet on another wait square feet square feet tiny tiny tiny oh my gosh so we do recommend approval of that vacation um uh and uh because again it was a larger evenement it's a tiny tiny nothing to do with neighboring properties just the property on that runs 10 and 11 uh and again for for uh 0.25 square feet and 089 sareet well if this housing bill passes they'll expect their lots to be 89 yeah square feet with four storage so that bubble in theat diagram gives you a sense of where that encroachment hits and how tight it is can I make a motion uh no we have public and these guys been sitting here all day slides they're not talk they're not on the T stuff to adopt the resolution any any other no uh I will go ahead and open the public hearing did you guys want to speak is that where you talking about where that c is on my East Side West Side um no they fill by and put a c underneath it I'm curious if that's pretty close where you're talking about that l no we're really just nothing physically is changing again this is just a drawing on a map um that we're vacating a tiny bit of that so that it's not a a clouding the title of these two homes physically nothing is changing sorry you've been here all night yeah wait if you want to say something you should say something time y anything how mad you are how tired you are I am mad well we get two maps I guess so what yeah is the second one the ex item then we have this one and we have this one could you bring that up yeah the two the two gr properties we're just talking for notifying within 500 feet yeah so this is saying because the the easement is within a 500 foot radius which is our notice radius this I get noticed that this change is happening to anyone within this circle so how could it so does it act does this thing actually impact them I just want to clarify that they're within 500 feet of it oh man we have to P I'm sorry and we CH oh no I think but it's still hit at 350 were there yeah we could change it back to but I was told to yeah yeah that was you guys made that change but maybe there should be a little explanation a little explanation what it said oh okay you guys I do apologize if you want to take a card wait all of us have CS out front if something similar comes up feel free to call any of us shoot us an email uh hopefully we can try to clarify things ahead of time in the future I did have a couple questions with TR though just Qui question come 6665 Trail Lane 31 years uh as far as that development when are the hours they can actually be working because that's really been inconsistent up there should be 7 to 7 on weekdays and 8 to four I think on weekends okay think the seven part in the evening has been bypassed a few times for sure but uh then the other thing what do they do when this is Brooking yeah you can hear nonemergency please if there's a way to record it it's a problem yeah we just didn't know what the hours were we knew there were set hours that was the only reason break one other question I guess there but there's a part I don't know what map to use here but there's a part that will be put in for that development which I think is in phase two and there was just a question when will that be in process and when will it finish that don't we have a set date on that U as of now we're working on all of our Park planning including the city park the big Park project um so we'll probably have some better Clarity on that in the coming months but we don't know precisely when that will be um then walking path basically running from Hackamore all the way up through the back side of that development through the nor yeah so there should be to be Trails connected so the hackmore trail will be completed this coming construction season um and then the trail the neighborhood Trails will we built throughout the development as each phase is going um and part of that will be part of the Diamond Lake Trail I believe too okay and then one last question there's a home call it a twin home or whatever you want to call it looks like twin home I think somebody had told up here they've been running the lights in every room I mean it's pretty great it's not probably Glen Bush Rose is bright but uh is there a reason why they said here at City Hall it's a safety reason and like seriously every light in that house has got to be on for when you say at night they said at City Hall did you call City Hall somebody called in our neighborhood it's right next to me yeah that's what I'm looking at and that whole place is just if you could send me grab my card send me an email I'll dig into this it just seems very odd one it's not very energy efficient even though a lot of a lot of the builders are leaving all their lights on and send us the information I'm not sure but if you if reach out I'll do some diig and let you know I find gota you could email it TV yes that'd be great uh but if they are working outside of ours may make sure you call because I didn't I didn't want to while or stir anything up because I didn't even know what they're working yeah I heard there was something set yes but I didn't have any idea what we put working hours in place a few years back because of the issues of them working way up and taking up people's enjoyment of their property l a couple of times it was at dark I don't know if they're running with headlamp what they're running oh my God they can't be working inside either during that they can't be staging equipment at that time right outside of those hours so so there's a non-emergency number if you call our Police Department it'll take you to a voice mail and there's a non-emergency number that will get you in contact with the on duty officer and they will come out and look you can you can also call 911 and say it's a non-emergency yep you can do it that way too just wanted to understand a few little things thank you for coming in guys I'll I'll make a motion to close the public hearing uh all those in favor say I um the item itself any discussion on it you guys can go thank you thank you guys have a good night entertain a thanks guys I'll entertain a motion to app got a jacket ma'am don't your jacket uh to approve that's not part of the motion resolution 2024 22 approving the easement vacation for fourth edition second uh any further discussion all those in favor say I I perfect on to 8D uh similar presentation yeah if you want it otherwise I don't need I think we're good I'll go ahead and open the public hearing anyone like to speak nope I'll entertain a motion to close a public hearing all those in favor say I need a second second I saw a head nod and I think I assumed it was a second I hour uh do we have a second John second all those in favor say I I okay uh I'll entertain a motion to approve resolution 2024 to 21 approving that you vacation fora 6 Edition second any discussion all those in favor say I okayy those people are never gonna participate in government ever unfortunate that I do feel bad for them long way um okay on to 8e uh hble real estate has requested sketch plan review for the 8 acre parcel in the far northeast corner of the city the property is guided and zoned industrial it's in the Northeast District so it's subject to both the industrial standards as well as the Northeast District standards it's the only remaining developable invest Pro parcel in the Northeast so the image again this is from our Northeast District uh plan and I like this image because it shows the street connections onto 101 uh how the streets uh move through the site and connect ultimately to the property uh to the West next slide so the concept plan shows two buildings for generally warehouse distribution type uses those are the uses we anticipate in the indust or some of the uses we anticipate and permit in the industrial district as proposed the plan shows two lots one for each of the buildings and two out Lots one on each side of the new public streets the buildings uh are about 540,000 square feet in total and then you can see on the screen there's a truck dock Bay or dock area between the two buildings so it's oriented in such a way way that those doc bays are fully screened from the public Street County 101 from the future residential to the west and then separated it um from the industrial property to the South um by that open space um generally the uh buildings and the parking lots comply with the i1 standards with one exception and we talked about this as part of the whole church site it does require a variance for a zero setback uh for that truck bay so that lot Line's going to run right down that truck bay so we won't meet setb for those D vies parking stalls um facing each other like to each other yeah to each other and again the GMU District allows that but oddly none of the other districts do by right and I I think Natalie talked about this with hope that it's something we feel like we should change uh in the ordinance but for now um it would either require a variance or for you to them to ask next slide it finally gave up locked up it was like a I'm tired uh so the architecture generally I mean it's very early days um generally appears to comply uh again this is one where I think council could provide some feedback it's not a PUD it's General zoning but um they are trying to break up the MTH of the building you can see by those windows um and color changes on the side of them parking looks to comply it's hard to tell at this level but generally appears to comply with the number of stalls um trail trailer parking stalls and and regular stalls um there there is on the site plan an8 foot landscaped BM that is uh in uh between the street and the truck Zone to provide screening and so one of the things to talk about is again given where this property is is that adequate to screen those truck PHS or is more uh screening like a wind wall or something going to be required next slide um we talked about the zero set B um Landscaping generally appears to comply with this level of detail one question in that southwest corner again um is the existing wetlands and vegetation adequate to provide screening again we have thousand feat between the adjacent residential and so does that meet the buffer requirements in the in the orance that's a council discretionary item so um if additional Landscaping is required up against against that street um the applicant likely could comply but whether that's necessary is a question for the council but just to clarify along kind of like the red line on the street close to the street there of the circle that's the 8 foot BM roughly on that south side of that street and then there is plantings along that no there's no bur on the north side of the street is where the BM is and then on the Northern street it's on the south side of Street um yeah right in that room okay and then and there is there planting to this any plantings on the landscape plan the south of the road there is some planting but it isn't it's streetcape planting it's not so there will be a streetcap and I show that in a later slide maybe the last so this one shows the Landscaping it's just a streetcape so it's not meeting the buffer requirements but given the size of that chunk of land in that distance is it is itary gotta there are plantings on the BN right there are the um and again distance so I did want to go back to this um this probably the only one that's kind of critical for tonight um the code would require 4% of the land area to be dedicated for Parkland and if the comprehensive plan shows Parkland on the park we will take that before we take cash what's a little different for tonight that I want to talk about is the map on the left is the comp plan map and we had a trail shown running on the west side of this property however since the comp plan was adopted Three Rivers has revised there that was supposed to be the three rivers of Diamond Lake Trail since then they've revised their plan and shifted that West into stees property and so the question is is there a desire to have two Trails next to each other by providing a trail on the west property line or would the council uh prefer uh to take that in cash there are Trails planned on Road on 101 and on the southern collector Street um as well as a sidewalk on The Collector Street and sidewalks on both sides of the local Street on the North side but again I thought this was an important conversation because what our comprehensive plan shows is that trail but really that trail moved West When Diamond Lake Trail got realigned um so you have some discretion there and that would be helpful feedback for the applicant um isn't there an East West one being discussed but I don't know up there if it is May mayor and Council I actually met with Three Rivers wow it's been a long day this morning almost yesterday not yesterday this morning but but but I met with them this morning I met with their planner and we discuss not only the possibility of the East West Trail but also the future possibility of the regional park that they're trying to um bring into corkran Y and uh so to answer your question yes but it's very big map it's that it's pretty close to that parallel I think it might be on the North might two and there kind of in between because I know the one of the East the Weaver Lake trails they're talking about could potentially intersect at city park yeah there's one it doesn't matter it's at least have it be part of the discussion because there's one that goes like jogs along Rush Creek which is at a parallel with my house MH that's why I know this that about there's a map out there with that trail going through my property gotcha I'm like well I still live there but when it's a Future Part it's kind of it's it is just south of here but it's not on this map and I just don't want it to get lost as we proceed on going through development along this Corridor Jay could you speak to any inut they had on this specific Trail like what their plans are I remember when they were speaking with us they talked about this line as like quarter mile wide and things can and are expected to shift back and forth uh we really focused our discussion more along what's happening right along at the 116 and 30 intersection and what I was pressuring them on was clarification on the timeline for the underpass uh one of the things that came out was they had the impression that there was going to be an underpass at 10 and at 50 coming into City Park I said that's not my understanding that it was both underpasses but I may have misunderstood that and I haven't had a chance to talk with staff about this would we uh three rivers are under the impression of that their planner was and I I I said that would be put that the more under passes the better yeah I said I I didn't think that's where we're at right now uh and I'm not sure that the topography supports it in both of those locations uh but but it was very you know big map wave of hand um and then it it shifted to the regional park ideas um And to clarify they're looking for at least 200 Acres uh what they're considering right now is actually going out for an RFP and seeing who would be interested in that which I think is a very creative and good solution um instead of freaking people out by throwing it on a map it does for sure um we any thoughts on having the kind of two Trails if we were to take this Trail so my suggestion on that was if we could do something where we take some of that Park dedication and take you know maybe that section of the parcel that has the Woodland on it that's north of the development and then when the Westerly parcel develops maybe there's some complimentary Landing you can end up with a broader Trail Corridor that captures some more natural interest versus uh trying to put it in the middle of one parcel and potentially blocking its function if we can take half from one side and half from the other we may end up with a better overall Trail segment and is that where it's proposed on this are you I'm sorry I wasn't following so you want to take the trail segment or a chunk of land the wooded area so what I was saying is rather than have the trail run through the adjacent property entirely if we take land instead of cash and we capture portions of this that have natural interest that can become sort of the Eastern side of the trail easement or a portion of the trail and then when the Western parcel develops there might be other segments there that could be taken with that Park dedication we could end up with a more natural Corridor than just trying to run it through the middle on a 20 foot eement like we had to do in other parts of it is is that location that's on is that more on Three Rivers I think that's good Fe if if that's the council's direction I think that's good feedback to bring to the Parks Commission and to meet the that r on I think there's two parts really to that is one are we trying to accommodate the Three Rivers Trail because I think they're trying to get to that Green Dot um that Woodland area but um or is it just wanting another city trail that Spur off of that trail I think it would be ideally for the three rge Trail so if this were if this swung wider if they still want to get to those to Ste Woods you could still do that and you might end up with rather than you know running for half a mile on a 20 foot wide easement maybe you can capture some greater natural interest there was one sure I first moved out here eous if we know those twoa that was open foral development so my concern would be um like you said it be nice to have part of the dond Lake Trail there certain we have minimums we're trying to make but they also ask for 100 foot section than try to hit these that asking from some of these individual developments so I the sentiment consider need get closer to what the Diamond Lake trails ideal spacing is for this Trail as we have this opportunity to have bring developments I think that's worth considering and that if that's the case Al the left side of that property and now we're putting landscaping and what that's going to look like from that trail along that I think we kind of box ourselves in if we don't take the west side of that instead of money because then the the if then the adjacent land owner if at least we have two options here if the adjacent land owner says I don't want to trail on my land and I'm not s or whatever huh may be the case yeah we don't know that so why not give ourselves an option and if it doesn't work out we can I'd rather follow the border and be split between the two and use like like Jeremy said the Woodland to the north of the building northwest corner of the building is a significant stand of trees it's hard for me to accept even cutting any of them down and one of the requests would be is there any way they can shrink the building and save more of those trees or or change that second building on the West Side to a twostory building and use that use that Woodland to the northwest corner an amenity to a building instead of two big industrial buildings I just i' I'd like to see a little bit more character the first building I understand the second building it'd be nice if it' be a little different multi story we're going to need to do something too with with the land around that wetland in the in the southwest corner um with everything that happen on International and stuff and those folks um that are a th000 ft away we talked about it's going to be a big deal if they can all of a sudden see those two buildings too it needs to be screened and that's why I'm a little concerned about the the potential waving of the buffer even despite the the side of the Wetland wait who there are no hous let me ask you this sure I understand what you saying about the houses here right you're talking about a th000 feet of Cattail swamp not waving a buffer but one of the wetlands in the project we just approved is only probably 30 feet wide and we said go ahead be I think the difference is that there's 700 or however many thousand square feet of industrial on the other side oh God right but you're also talking about treaty withs yeah and a thousand feet back yeah I guess that's that's where we need to have the discussion on if we think that it's going to be completely screened from the resident of the South and sou I don't I don't think you'll ever completely screen it because you're talking about 45 foot tall buildings and I guess I wanted to explore Dean's comment about twostory buildings in there making it smaller than a twostory when you're already talking about a 45t tall building that's what I mean is something 45t tall it's going to be warehoused and stuff I'm assuming yeah would it be nice to see more glass and that that think is what we would see that this is doesn't have the architect style building instead on correct correct Mr Mayor we we have some examples of what it could look like but it is an industrial district it's not an office district and and so we do have standards for uh industrial dist I think it's a little hard to tell at this scale and at this concept level but I think it's important to note that the South uh West corner is sort of that front of the building like again that example of red uh but then the sides um might be less um finished but they would still have as you can see on that top rendering some some braks in the elevation so um as proposed this concept really has one variance uh that I can identify which is that sh parking thing but otherwise it's compliant with the I District so it's not a PUD like the other ones we've seen um but certainly I think it's important for the applicant to hear uh concerns about uh what somebody a thousand feet away might see and maybe you could do some view sheds or something back but and it is a tht away I think any anything that could be done to show to illustrate what the proposed building would look like from particularly those South Southwest angles uh from the residential there and anything that can be done to help screen it whether that's buffer through through just the regular Landscaping the burm however it's accomplished uh I think just the better we can screen it the more we're trying to diversify our tax base yep and that's why we did this in the first place and like we we're running act we're running out of spots that are more than a thousand feet away from the nearest yeah anything sure I mean I mean the concept the concept is what I would Envision there to be honest with you this is goes back to the days when we were talking about the Brockton Interchange to me what we wanted to attract in this area and for attack Bas to me this is the least intrusive industrial building we'll see in the city because it's so far away from everything I agre um I think the plan is actually really well thought out and laid out myself there was one thing in there I think you were brought up in the staff report we needs consideration is parking islands in the trailer parking lot thank you I think that's one of the slides we might have skipped but yes um the the Northeast District talks about islands in the parking lot and doesn't distinguish between truck trailer zones and parking lots and I think that's an oversight but um theity is it doesn't distinguish between that and those trailer zones are considered parking stalls and so um this is a question that I have is that is that something that the council would want to see the ordinance change or provide a variance for because the reality is it doesn't work you do not want parking lot Islands in those tractor canul yeah I think it's an oversight yeah I think we should do an ordinance change on but really when you start talking about saving trees you're really talking about eliminating opportunity in a commercial district and I can see saving trees and residential area where you want to create buffer you want to create things but this is designed to be an industrial area I just I think the concept is great it's I I agree I I absolutely agree I'm just asking if it could be shrunk because of that stand of trees is substantial I mean they're they're not wasted trees they're not the stuff we've been talking about we don't have very many of those hanging around it's their property they could have clearcut it a year ago and stuff I just was asking as an open open question it doesn't look like many of them will be impacted based on the sketches but I don't know what the grading would look like maybe they would be I think maybe the applicant can answer that but I would agree I think they've done a good job job of limiting the impact to those wooded areas particularly on the North side it's a pretty small impact there but they can speak better that's all right I'm okay with that then the other question that I had at some point in this the conversation or the writing was is that their intent was to build the first building first in the second building at some point at a later date um that's always has that's has to be the case no matter what I understand first first second at a later date first nail would you turn the mic off slap him anyhow the where I'm going is I would like to make sure that we continue doing what we've done in the past is that East West Road on the North and then the I'll just be silly the curvy one to this I'll be completed all the way over to the next property not halfway done and then completed when the second building goes in that makes sense that's what we do correct those roads would be complete no matter when they build the second building you know I think we can certainly look at that as part of the feasibility study we're concerned about emergency vehicle access um and and Public Safety access as much as um the um um uh public works and I suspect the applicant's probably not going to want to build a temporary called the sack for a year and then extend it but they could speak to that I think that's a detail that we can work out y those are just concerns from land owners and such in the past so again the design the mindset on what this was set up for I understand um my view it looks like a lot more of those trees are being affected but uh I'll go with I'll go with what you guys are talking about well they can provide some information of the project proceed I did want to answer a question that was raised about what the property next door is planned for and the property to the West has a buffer of mixed use and then a transitions to low density residential and it was very intentional to go from industrial to mixed use to uh the low density residential um and then I I did want to mention the streets so the street plan uh from the Northeast district is on the screen and those access points were uh uh developed in conjunction with henan County and uh this plan is generally consistent with that we do think that the Northern Road might need to slide a tiny bit to the South um access will be permitted by Hannah County so we'll need to work with them and then um that's where we're focused I would note we did receive some comments from the city of Maple Grove and I know yeah we saw too um uh I think next slide J I think I had uh so next steps um if the council supports the concepts The Next Step would be the environmental assessment worksheet that's required because it's more than 300,000 square feet of commercial or industrial property and then as part of the eaw we complete the feasibility study that's where the big questions about infrastructure get addressed once that's completed it comes back to you gets distributed for public comment and then at the end of that process the applicant can submit an application and the application would be for preliminary plat and either variances for those couple of items we talked about related to the Truck Zone that's the zero setback for parking and those islands uh in the truck Zone not fuding them or uh they could request a zoning ordinance Amendment uh plus a site and then the final step would be a final five this is not a PUD so that's just a final fot development Kendrick man or go um I I I I need some help interpreting and I'm open to anyone I didn't understand the letter from uh Mark and I don't know what they're saying and I I needed a little ask for some clarification and I didn't understand their clarification um think it's and I'm serious about it I usually understand things I just didn't get it I need what were the what was their beef and I want to take it seriously because I if I may take a swing at it and staff will correct me on this uh Maple Grove in their planning process has perceived that the alignment of that road would be in a different location uh it's my understanding that as of yet they haven't invested the staff time to fully explore that but that's where they have templated it uh and even before we received those comments staff recognized uh as they were doing analysis and and review of this that there may be the necessity to move where the applicant has put the road move it south and so the reality would be probably somewhere between where Maple broke would like it to be somewhere between where it was initially templated it will end up somewhere in there will continue to work uh the other component that they asked for was uh and would you please uh pay for our reviewing how to do that um that doesn't seem like a a good or an appropriate request on their part uh and so we didn't really speak more to that we're more concerned about the alignment to the roads can can uh the comment you made about staff identified it might have to shift further south what is that based on it's also based on the flood plane was a big flood plane that hasn't really been defined up in that area on our side of the Border okay so it's a combination of a lot of stuff this is a a concept level once they y dig into it and fit stuff a little better okay we anticipate a coming a little bit so the eaw will flush out the details that are necessary to determine where the appropriate location for the road is okay in combination of H County and all that so it's a combination of a bunch of stuff we just yeah anticipated might have to come a little is a spacing fine for hanapin County's restraints between Road are I think the issue is kind of oversimplifying but gr had a plan in got that approved yeah I don't care about M gr's plan we got a plan we are def more most recently we've been developing here so we've got a revised plan that's two years old and surprised they this one intersection is a couple hundred feet out the confusing part is that it is different than our plan a little bit a little bit farther north but there never was alignment in in the two plan I think you know my speculation that Maple gr firms older they have obviously a different VI view of that but we've looked at her twice in every development along the way and we've placed our plan for the feedback we've gotten the last six years that was here that conflicts with Maple gr ultimately the county decides that we'll advocate for what we think makes the most sense and it's going to be based on the the technical stuff it's going to be the flood plane the Wetland mitigation what makes the the road work Maple Groves is spased on the minimum spacing ours is spased on inappropriate spacing so I I feel that we should be advocating for inappropriate we should evaluate it appropriately and it shouldn't just be at half mile spacing it should be an appropriate spacing we should consider our neighbors across the road at a broad level but we just need to make sure it works um and I think there is more common ground than maybe what Maple gr's representing and I would say this was a good effort by the con by the team here presenting it at a concept level you don't have a flood plane elevation to find so I think this is a fair representation on what they would like to see and as as the details get to it's probably going to need sou a little bit ultimately h of the county decides so that's kind of how I think is going to play off okay thank you I would imagine one of the concerns we hear from residents would be the incoming and outgoing of truck traffic um but unless until 610 is developed I would imagine most truck traffic will come off 94 to access this versus coming up 30 than D we anticipate that but that's what the feasibility C is GNA focus on they'll make projections on that like all right um so we touched on trail uh overall site plan generally supportive generally ignore most of what I said ignore most of what I said I'm okay with that I was I'm actually fine without the trail touching this property you know so okay knowing that the other property is's going to have residential and mixed use if mixed use if mixed use is buffering it you'll probably the next develop will probably want the trail going next to their residential fa point I think I could be swayed either way on that maybe even move it to the Western border of that property in between the small acre lots and whatever were to go on that is that what you're thinking uh I wouldn't recommend moving it that far because we've heard a lot of contention from people that exist have existing homes in the community that when they see that Trail going across their property or behind their property they're like I don't want that in my backyard even though I want a trail frankly I'd be interested in hearing what parks and planning have to say um if it goes forward and goes through those processes threee Rivers has already have that defined space to the east I I just gave them mayor a map that I received today that's the latest version of their map that that shows it along the lines of what Enders shared uh it's it's further west and then it has the search area that Council M bottom was talking about further south uh for what would be considered the Weaver Lake Regional Trail and as was discussed coming adjacent to City Park um and coming coming through the north side of the future corkin Town Square City Center that would be the East West think I'd just be interested to hear what our commissions have to say through that process so yeah and through the eaw the rivers will be notified they'll wait in a little bit and we'll continue to chat with them so um I think the the trail issues a big issue we talked I think I felt like there was some support for the variance in the truck I think that I didn't hear ens is necessarily on the buffer in the southwest corner is there anything else that the applicants who've also waited a long time to hear the comments should hear from you is there anything else they have to like feedback on specifically or just to talk about I feel an obligation to good evening mayor council my name Isel I represent Temple real estate thank you very much for your feedback back so far and thanks to staff and Kev great to work with been their office several times seeking Direction guidance Great temple we plan CL a development for sure all the high standards and this bring a lot of economic impact positive impact to the city of corpin so we're happy about that and your questions in comments so far have all been been thoughtful um with regard to that buffer to the southeast we definitely do some some imagery out there um likely sooner than later to try to get it in leafless season leafless State that'll be the most visible but I do think in any event I call the truck Court in between the buildings will be very conent design we currently have that'll be very helpful thank you absolutely um in terms of tree preservation we we really went U kind of a long way to try to work with the existing topography and tree Groves there is some with that nor roadway uh where it's located uh as staff mentioned it's kind of an engineering exercise to get a final place that I think that that'll work itself out May May shift down a little bit naturally we'd like it to be as far north as it can be to maximize the buildable acreage of the property and the economic impact of that but uh the engineering water sh kind of dictate who that is um and on that topic I looked at the the Maple Grove concerns with regard to the the wetlands on their side of the East Side 101 and checking some of the historical photographs I I think we could make that that curve in the road on their side on the west side of 101 without impacting the the wetlands but again we'll study all that f what else was mention oh the the road extension um understand your point council member Veron Camp um we would not like to build roads to Nowhere uh if we don't have to so Our intention with the phasing would our desire would be to build the road only through phase one build it during phase two and have a CA stack a temporary fund for turn now if Western property owner future developers starts that project and is in a position to connect those roads before we're ready fore to to be willing to commit to building it at that time to ensure that they have that would be acceptable to aside from that I think those were the primary comments I I heard just feedback next day thank you thank you okay I think we're good there move on to item 8f which just a reminder we are not approving any of the specifics we're just approving or discussing to approve the work plan to then address these issues I don't have for the work plan I don't have any slides oh those are those are oh okay as I no I I change years to um go on more of a task isase we plan to accommodate the deadlines that we're running up against so task one is going to be to evaluate and clarify use Andor assignment of development rights within rural commercial areas and transitional roal commercial zoning districts um with that going to the Planning Commission April 4th so next week foral discussion and then providing Planning Commission discussion summary and the business Community survey summary to Council on April 25th having a first draft available for a joint work session on May 23rd to work through with Planning Commission and city council and then uh potentially public hearing June 6th City CC June 27th that is very aggressive but um that would be how to get it done by and S so we have to be very organized and ready to make some decisions or we certainly have a year um we can push it out by a month or so uh but just keep in mind we also have subsequent tasks that we also need to keep in mind so task two is dealing with the storage so again I'm am participating getting some Planning Commission feedback on April 4th and providing on April 25th but for that just so that my capacity is focus where it needs to be Focus I I wouldn't plan on having a first draft of that and until July um and then Planning Commission public hearing as soon as August 1st uh and then uh with city council adoption and looking the moratorium potentially as soon as August 22nd we have until October 12th before that moratorium expires so that gives us about a month of leeway should we need it um and then once we get the moratoriums taken care of we can do the comprehensive review of the commercial industrial zoning districts uh again getting some initial feedback next week that will be brought back to you at the end of the month um and then hopefully starting to move forward with drafting in October uh with um we're probably gonna have more than one draft but theoretically could be some adoption as soon as November sounds good thank you I'll make a motion to can I ask quick question how does this affect the property out County Road 30 and 19 so the first is this part of that yeah that's task one so that my my only question is make that property owner aware of the timeline now so there's no surprises or progress if you know what I'm talking about that work to June my only concern is this isn't def timeline I can certainly I think we'll hear he can read it you guys know what I'm asking it's why I just let him know we'll give an update okay anything else I'll make a motion to approve the work plan as laid up by n second any discussion all those in favor say I okay on do I believe we just have some I made it this far without getting lost in my on page two I think no staff report zip through that yeah we got a staff report planning project update anything of note that's not in the printed nope okay uh city council schedu is also printed there and subject to plenty of change as always and then with that city council is going into close session to consider an offer for Real Estate or personal property under the authority of Minnesota statute 13.05 subdivision 3 C3 the city is permitted to close the meeting to consider offers and counter offers for the purchase or sale of real or personal property the city council is going into close session to consider an offer for Real Estate or personal property following properties are the subject of the first close meeting water supply treatment equipment secondly the city council is going into to a second close session uh to consider an offer for Real Estate or personal property the following properties are the subject of the second Clos meeting P 2311 92343 00008 we are in close session discuss property staff was provide Direction second close session the city council discussed an offer real estate or personal property and staff was provided directions and with that uh just into the new day I will make a motion to adjourn second say hi hi hi thank you everyone