make sure you talk close to the mic all right I'd like to call the April 18th 2024 cor Parson Trails commission meeting to order we'll start with roll call Christian s here Fredick here Anderson here Schmidt here urburger here NBO Here trailer here okay now I'd like to invite everyone to to the Pledge of Allegiance States of America the for it stands one nation God indivisible with liy and jce for all all right let's go to agenda approval does anyone have any changes if not I would look for a motion to approve motion to approve the agenda second great all those in favor I and those opposed all right approved next is the meeting minutes from the March 21st [Applause] meeting I'll make a motion to approve second all right all those in favor I and those opposed approved and now we'll move on to open Forum public comment opportunity for things that are not on the agenda tonight um that is for you guys but we can go through it once we get to S oh sorry B okay okay looks like no open Forum so presentations yes we'll get started oh sorry no pres no presentation sorry ium now we can get started just want to talk I love the sound of my own voice apparently City Park concept plans uh so you guys have seen the concept plans a few times now uh this one is coming back with the recommendations from the previous meeting so you'll notice oh well that is certainly not the right side um there we go so you'll notice that there were some adjustments to it uh the playground has moved up a little bit to be further away from the road um closer to the t-ball Fields as discussed the hockey ranks and all of the hockey amenities got moved to the east uh there was some conversation about kind of keeping that western side with the pickle ball and the tennis and the playground so that's reflected uh the open field and event space in the uh where Lions field is currently and then the parking lot with the regional trail head is still there and then I think those are the main adjustments so at this point a lot of the meeting that we're discussing today so with the city park concept plans and then previously we talked through Park standards and that's coming back and then we also talked through sources funding and uses in the last few months those three topics will be going to the Joint work session with Council next Thursday so the purpose of this is to get your guys' initial feedback and then I can bring that forward to Gabby with h KGI and she can help be prepared to answer some of those questions there's anything glaringly obvious that you think should get shifted I can't make any promises it'll get shifted by the time we have the joint work session but at least we know that going into it um I think we hit most of the thoughts that you guys had on this but there were some other areas that I wanted to touch on just as conversations kind of ensued on a staff level so one of the things we discussed and I don't want this to be a surprise to you next week at a staff level we've talked through the possibility of an open air sheltered playground is that the technical title for it no but it's the easiest way I can describe it so you'll notice on the bottom left and the bottom right that's what we're talking about now that is in Twin Peak it's twin silos in Fort Collins Colorado and it's really cool I'm going to be honest it has the ability to have you know if it's raining or inclement weather it's protected it's got the shading which I thought was a nice added bonus um but you can see that there's a lot of open space in there I mean there's tunnels and stuff I'm not necessarily showing you this as a this would be the best thing we could ever do but is an open air sheltered playground something that would be considered we've also talked about an agricultural theme so this is my opportunity to plant that seed if you will um and get your guys' thoughts on it if that's something that you're interested in we Jay and I met with uh the esth family as well if you remember with the small child um so we talked to them about donations again and they were interested in a in an agricultural theme as well um I know that they had interest in the dinosaurs and that was a really big thing for them um so this was something that we discussed with them and they were super open to it so that if there was any blocking there that's good to go so getting your guys' thoughts on it uh you can see that there's a few different agricultural themed items that could be implemented like the cool swing set made out of the yeah the sprinkler and then a hay bale so again we're not looking to necessarily plan plan the playground right this second but as we kind of shift away potentially from that dinosaur theme I want to make sure that I'm keeping everyone in the loop right um so considerations for the commission the tennis courts there are two shown would you rather have one or two the playground currently shown about the same size as the one that's currently at city park is that the right size um buildings there is an existing shelter and we want to chat through maybe the sizing of the multiuse and the sizing of the warming house and maintenance building do those seem adequate I it's hard because without knowing what's going inside of the buildings and being able to mark it off we're going off of just big picture here's the square footage um the agricultural theme I wanted to chat through the open air sheltered playground idea and then just miscellaneous thoughts that you all may have a lot but keeping in mind if there's anything that you miss you can always bring it back next Thursday at 5:30 right here that being said do we want me to go back to this maybe yeah so I have a thought so I think the agricultural idea is a really unique and cool idea especially for corkran because it kind of goes back to where our roots are um is the the size of the one that you showed us is that is our playground area big enough to accommodate the size that that looks like it could possibly be because it looked rather large and I'm sure you can do different sizes but like in thinking of what is the size that we want it to be MH so I think part of the question is there's that's a two-part question one is about the agricultural theme the other one is more about the open air shelter idea so we would have to explore the open air shelter I just wanted to kind of plant that seed make sure that we're all on the same page as far as that goes and not further explore it if that's not something that we're interested in right um I would say that there is room to probably shift the playground around and when speaking with Gabby earlier this afternoon or earlier this morning what we really need is are these the right components because as we get further through this design process and we start doing construction documents things might shift because we still have to do a survey and all of the other fun engineering items so this isn't necessarily it's all going to be right where it's set currently main main point tonight is going to be are these the right amenities is this the right number of amenities and then we can determine spacing a little bit down the road and I think so the current playground isn't the biggest playground so I think I would be concerned that it wouldn't be big enough if want to have some big structure like the covered one cuz I think you'd still want to have an area for a sand pit and swings and probably a regular you know playground for the younger one so I I also like the idea of like a really heavy theme like the agriculture one but I think we might run into space issues if it's the same layout as today's if that's the same size as today's city park playground okay is it at this point that's what she said that is what I was told yes well with the growing Community we're going to have more use so it probably should be a little bigger is there room to the right or to push that path to the right I was thinking you could potentially flip the tennis courts to The Far Side of the pickle ball courts yeah yeah what is that the sixth soccer field that's not really a soccer field that there it's the bottom part of the full yeah it's a big one to just show the overlay yeah that might yeah I think that's so larger playground mhm I like the open air concept and it doesn't mean the whole playground has to be right have a barn over it but it does look kind of cool and it's raining be really nice for the kids I think it looks cool but I think just like thinking of how often would um someone or parents bring their kids to the playground when it's raining you know and then if they do I first thought safety right even though it's covered you're still bringing water into a playground area that gets slippery so safety wise I guess I've just never seen it this person probably be more so if you're out there and then it's getting overcast you don't have to leave right away yeah but the shade is shade be nice cuz there probably isn't going yeah the trees that exist I don't think are are on that playground area I think they're on the right like where the hill is like to the right of the splash they're about right here they're along this line hill is that a pretty big hill then yeah can't visualize it that's why we make path that way okay uh tennis courts one two we have a I would stay too yeah the last time here were saying don't underclub the popularity of tennis still or something right so yeah yeah two and then we can always turn them into more or pick a ball that no one really plays but don't I I see that the volleyball court is like where the amphitheater is are they going to remove the volleyball court I think so okay it's not shown currently in my time here it's never been reserved um I really haven't seen anyone using it and to be to be fair I feel like the net that is out there isn't the best net I did go out there and to took a look at it uh it's not really grouping like there's not a lot there's not a lot wrong with it it just doesn't get used okay the other thought I had looking at this was that area north of the amphitheater between existing shelter is like a prime spot of the park like it's elevated and you can see the whole park so I we don't have anything there on this plan but I think it's worth considering that that's when I stand there and look the current playground's on a spot that's just like a really ideal spot for anything it's elevated you can see um not saying move stuff around but I think it might be considering is there something we can put there that is is that where is going through like right where that white path meets the yeah like right there where that current playground is you can see the elevation that's the top of the hill it's would that be good seating though for the amphitheater if they have concerts and whatnot I think based on the orientation the idea was it goes up for keep pressing the button sound it kind of goes up up the hill so that you have that seating pointing down some barer too I have two ideas for you there to consider one uh City administrator suggested having an old tractor in a prime photo spot so on top of that hill over looking the rest of the playground and the ball fields could be good you could also put that large Tyrannosaurus Rex play structure that we were looking at in a place like that be very iconic because it's Unique yeah it we'll say it was at the park and the two groups I saw there where they were playing trying to play pickle ball and they couldn't and there was a group playing um Cricket on the existing ball field so I think we've brought up Cricket before but I think that's a even with the current park it seems to be a real need they had and they said they really just need a flat I talked to them a little bit about what they need for a cricket and they said we really just need a flat like the baseball field dirt but ideally it's just like a patch in the middle of a field they don't need a fence around it they just need like a 60 M radius around the area so I think I don't have a great answer other than it seems like a real need our community might have uh and we do have a couple of we are a home field for a cricket team um and they use one of the existing ball field they're right there they're in the right one but they said it's basically half of half of they're using it as a half of a cricket because you can only go one way L yeah but they said yeah they said really all they would need is just like a patch of dirt in a in the field somewhere so even if it's considering is there somewhere so they went dirt over grass is that what you're saying yeah they just want a hard dirt Circle isn't there some lacrosse teams too where they history lacrosse yeah wasn't there some lacrosse doesn't need dirt they only need the grass the grass but isn't there some la cross teams that use our Fields no not anymore no okay not since my time here we have baseball softball cricket and then our internal stuff so soccer okay they said Plymouth was putting in a Cricket Court but I was that sounds right um I think they have been working with but they've also a lot of the cricket associations have been speaking with Plymouth and Maple Grove and at one point they were speaking with us about it but they've been renting at this point how big does that flat dirt patch need to be I think just enough between those two so they were using like between first base and second base I'm wondering if that open field event space down at the bottom could be adaptive for that if it's or you have just a patch there right doesn't have to be a dedicated Cricket but they said it' be nice if it just had a hard ground that we don't have a fence they're on first base they have a fence 5 ft behind them ideally the patches in the middle of the field they also make portable Mounds too which is something we could explore yeah cuz that left side could be open for MH that absolutely okay do we want to do you want me to talk to Gabby about getting it added what's the consensus on that which resources are we taking up if we're actually going to we're going to get the you need a flat piece of ground but like one of those ball fields do they they extend far enough I've never played Cricket I don't really know not a clue they said they needed 60 I mean we can we should talk to them a little more they said they needed a 60 M Circle and then a patch in the middle for the so it didn't sound like a very big space you go on a full Cricket like it would be huge and have a fence but like for what they do you would just want 60 M with grass and in the middle have that 20t patch of dirt so it may fit in that bottom right or in the open field space it would certainly fit on the left side if you had a mobile patch that you could bring in and out portable pitch yeah I think is what they call it a pitch okay I met with them briefly there was a group that came in I think it was 2019 I was very new here and they were talking about it when we were originally starting this project maybe it be worth just reaching out to somebody to get more information so that if we can incorporate it somehow easily we can but my recommendation would be don't incorporate a full pitch but like just what would it work for someone to play recreational cricket and not have to have the full size is that possible go back to your list of questions that was exactly what I was thinking next so tennis court playground egg theme we covered open air shelter miscellaneous thoughts we're touching on so buildings is kind of the last one do we like the the idea of an Amphitheater an existing shelter um the warming house/ Maintenance building and then the Pavilion changing room indoor space building so four buildings is or structures the other one might want to consider is like a concession building in the middle of the baseball diamonds if people want to rent it out for tournaments and sell concessions it's a liability but yeah is well I mean think about it you got people coming in you got to rent out the keys you got to so it would it would take some extra sta time I think so as we're adding these things that would be the only thing I would include in there is there would be an added need for probably additional staff to clean it could we do it as like a public private partnership where we have a vendor that sets up for a season and we put it out for we haven't and I I recognize that we're going into a remaster so hopefully that would change but we haven't had more than I think one tournament out there we currently don't have any associations because I took over for associations when they all dismantled so my concern is who is going to be utilizing it okay and to put in something that's probably going to be relatively expensive I want to make sure that we have someone lined up now if we think we want to put more resour into that I think it would be worth it to then look at the ball fields too as something to upgrade I mean they're they're in good condition but are they Tournament level that's that would be a question and based on the fact that I don't think we've had a lot of people reach out about tournaments either we're missing something or they don't know we're here so that would be my only hesitation if we want to look at how much it costs and what the sizing is I mean it I'm not telling you no by any means but I would want to if we don't expect tournaments or then I understand not wanting it but but if that's the goal that's that changes things is there any element of the park to generate revenue or is it more of a net net with you know Sports fees to just upkeep the park I would say the revenue would be coming from any programming fees which there have been conversations of making that external so having programs run externally and then kind of focusing on events and things of that nature now that's not set in stone by any means so that could change uh Revenue at Park is probably going to be your rentals your programming fees so rentals could be ball fields it could be the Pavilion it could be that indoor space uh we have to further discuss the Flash Pad and how that would be either funded or not funded um let's see what else is in there you're probably not going to be charging for a lot of special events that take place at the park um so for the most part aside from rentals would a I was looking at the park rules too would like a food truck be able to go to the parking lot like like if we didn't have a concession is a food truck able to go in these parking lots it was like it seemed like they needed okay by technicality no not without approval okay is that a city council approval or a I believe it's a city council City there is no sales yeah there's no sales inside inside of the park because I did have someone ask at one point if they could sell I think it was popsicles and I had to look through the rule so don't know bad city council but in the future potentially we could change that rule and allow something like that because we're if we're expanding the park there's going to be more demand for that type of thing that type of service that would have to go before councel yes Park rule adjustments would have to absolutely go before coun there is a discussion later about Park roll signs though so that might be a really good time for us to touch on this what what yeah like I was thinking like either concessions or like like you said a food truck or something but I think it's against the rules so other thoughts on this I've got AG agriculture SE theme sounds good uh two play or two tennis courts is fine possibly a bigger playground the buildings we're okay with and the structures uh the open air sheltered playground we like that idea and then potentially adding in some Cricut options did we did you guys decide not to pursue the convertible hockey rank that was going to potentially also be pickle ball thank you for bringing that up no uh you'll see there's a basketball court in it which in speaking with Jay is aligned wrong uh it should be East and West shown on this diagram just because that is the WID of the hockey ring so it's going the long way so how would you put the basketball hoops mid in the middle of yeah so that needs some adjust but but yes so that way basketball is still Incorporated but it allows for Activation during those colder month or the warmer months of the hockey rank so how many basketball courts would there be I suppose potentially I would think two or three two I probably wouldn't push for three that way you have some space in between is that something do we want more than one basketball court we currently have zero the only cost is Hoops you may as well maximize your space then lining Y and then General upkeep and redoing of the lines so two two would be better can the lines be seen through the ice is it thick enough good question that's a good question I would imagine it's Cor in water so sort of why you want to play new sport in the winter or you shoot yeah it could be like it could be like broom ball basket got new sport coming here baset basket broom ball start the [Laughter] rice anything else we want to touch on with this like I said it'll be coming back next week uh for the work session so if anything pops into your mind later I have one more comment so in just thinking that those two existing ball fields the ones that are stacked are those the same size or all three of them the same size the two on the right look a little smaller these two are smaller in size this one is larger they already exist at that size though okay cuz my question would be if we're looking at reworking everything we've got those three Fields plus the SNY field and our playground is right there would it make sense to expand the playground further up to where that that lower that sou existing ball field is to make it a bigger Park like remove the storm water the bottom right ball field or the storm water I'm saying it remove the existing ball field and move move the playground up into that area because you've got Trails going around that right that is that that the gray or the white gray those as soon as you start touching the ball fields it's going to get more expensive um to move more of the dirt cuz they're down a hill and you're also going to then lose I mean keeping in mind there's only four regularly sized ball fields out there and it was intended to be an athletic complex right if you remove it but it sounds like we're not going that direction anymore because we don't want to get a concession stand so it's not really going to be we currently use the ball fields though I I would envision that we still offer baseball offerings M we're already removing two of the fields I guess what the focus is is what I was thinking if it's the focus is going to be this huge beautiful playground we don't want to smash it into a smaller space we'd want to have a bigger space for that type of open space playground I think what Jeremy suggested with moving those tennis courts that makes a heck of a lot of sense it looks like to the other side and then we got we can double the playground right and then you still got the trails going around it too yep these our Splash Pad big enough how does that compare to like Maple grow not be one square foot larger yeah smaller yeah is it do you know is it like half the size or not sure do splash pads have to be round or is that just like an example this is very much just a concept this is just to this is the approximate location approximate size make it shaped like an ear of corn yeah us on the other side does the this just in general I assume that there's some sort of Standards parks for cities of a certain size does it meet with regards to with regards to uh you know we got the 7500t rental space is that likely to be almost immediately outgrown or will it we have to not replace it when corkrin hits 12,000 or is depends on what you're using it for well yes yes I'm just thinking that you know seems like there are kind of national standards for most anything and I would be interested in knowing what how that matches up with sort of Standards I'd have to look into how they relate to buildings um I know that they generally have you know X number of ball fields per x amount of people yep I don't know that I've seen it on buildings but I can certainly look into it I'm I'm always interested well always sometimes I'm interested in knowing how this matches up against sort of Standards ball fields per thousand people square foot of number of tennis courts per thousand um the park is designed for the residents of corkran not for the national average so we we can feel free to deviate but it's kind it's nice to know that you know this is right there or that we will at some point we'll need to probably expand that so afraid of just being too small like making sure we have accommodated for like the growth that we're going through at least for yeah you know and when when the park is full you know Co we've got some empty SP we got some vacon space that we have not developed but that would be the next next phase further when we're a bigger city so this will get this will get worked plenty you know it'll change over time for sure can we ask hkg because I've never really designed a park before if they have any interesting ideas that we could incorporate like for example the I don't want this but of those one of those ninja Parks that's kind of cool would hkg have any ideas oh there's some cool Parks going up across the country that are doing this we've seen it I mean maybe they wouldn't know that but if they have any different ideas besides the standard baseball soccer I think part of the concern is the budget yeah no I get that but because Sor so again I don't want a n course but if they have any they had talked about trying to highlight the creek a little more M so yeah if there was an interest in doing that I would hope to see more Trails kind of closer to it but I think part of it is the ball field or the t- ball fields are right there and so it's like how close can you really get to the creek um but up top it's pretty nice too on the North side M yeah I think one of the original Plants had Trails basically following the whole way if I remember right but maybe was just like this too what did they curious how would they highlight the creek just with trails closer more visibility yeah just cleaning it up a little bit was my understanding yeah I think that makes sense especially on that North that North Side even now it's flowing pretty good it looks like a nice little creek if it was you can only see little slivers on it though yeah you may as well shift that trail to be closer I still worri the playground area not big enough even if we shift the tennis courts cuz if it's going to be a focal point of the park or maybe it's not I just feel like that the expanses and the bigness of a breeze through playground area you want it to be big enough so it's stands the test of our population and not just 12 kids being in it and all of a sudden it's full so I don't I just I'm worried that the Park area is not big enough it's substantially bigger than wildf flower so I can tell you that much much um I would say if you're looking for something like French Park that's what I was going to say yeah me too that's very large very expensive French yeah but that was expensive because it was custom design for third graders sure a park of that size would be incredibly expensive especially now that we're years later I think it was $1 million at the time they installed it and that was years ago that's pretty I mean the foot is it that big but it and it's very tall so there's a lot of multi-layer structure that's Custom Design lot of kids on there by the time you go custom it'll be more the thing I don't like about French Lake is everything's actually you say it's big but everything's like on top of each other right so I I'm agree with you i''d be nice if we're going to have the cupboard one to still have other areas that are like still space to put in and if we've got like future ball fields and multi-use Fields in other areas then that would allow us to have a little bit more space Maybe to take some of that the existing ball fields and I don't know how far in the future those other ball fields are but it looks to me right now like we're going to have all ball fields in the future and very little area like for playground when you look at the whole section of how we've slighted out what's going to be ball fields and what's playground area but again that that's our purpose if that's what we want then that's okay but like if we're talking about doing a bigger play area for the whole city park then I don't know I just think it's probably now is the best time to think about it like what ifs if that's truly going to be ball fields in the future so I'm going to take you down kind of a path the 2040 comp plan this was the athletic area right and then in discussions once the purchase of the Rockford School District Parkland got done it was determined that there probably was not going to be another athletic search area for a park for athletics so with it being probably one of the only ones in the city I would highly recommend that you do kind of focus on the ball fields do I think a big playground is a great idea absolutely I think if you move the tennis court that's a that is a large playground and I think it doesn't look as big because you're looking at probably close to 60 Acres on this screen but that's still a large playground even if you move the tennis courts and expand it like that our bar our our ball fields get used quite a bit right now right I have Public Works asking me to use them less and that's with reservations I just took so so there 28 hours of reservations today okay so we're probably even under our all field demand potentially it's I think we will be fine I think losing the two because Lions field does frequently have standing water so I'm not using that as often anyways um and so then it would just really be me um I think we'll be okay I would say losing any more than that would be concerning how many residents actually participate in our program uh we've been increasing it when I started here I think we started at like 5% and I think we're up to 25 30% but I can tell you that I am seeing an uptick in more of the newer developments and I think that they're learning more about the programs um in addition to that like I said we've got rentals and I don't know if I'm allowed to share like residency necessarily but I can tell you that there are a good portion of people within the city who use our ball fields no I'm not trying to take away from our ball fields I'm just trying to really focus on if we do want a really cool playground I just want to make sure that we have a big enough space like I'm just thinking about like Rebecca Park when you walk into Rebecca park that's a huge area like it almost is the size of a baseball field it feels like one of our smaller Fields when you walk into that Park it's like it's huge there's just a lot of area around it not just like the Park area and that that that example that we we saw which I think is super cool looks like it has a lot of area around it too so I'm just worried that if we do something like that in here it's going to be a big building or a really small building on a space that can't accommodate what it needs to have around it sort of does that make sense it might be a good thing to have the model like to see a rendering of what it would look like with the building how big that would be compared to the spaces available for it to be fair we haven't hardly gotten that far I wanted to clear the idea with you guys first yeah what you could do is tell to utilize if we move the tennis courts utilize that space fully like Splash cat and playground can almost be one right so we got another little corner there I know it's just a circle or or fill that whole space and possibly shift the um Trail a little I know there's that Hill there so that might be tough mhm does that storm water collection have to be there I think we can those around cuz it be nice even if that's just open grass for the kids playing at the prer like you said space around it other than a storm collection right next to that it much rather that be in that triangle or something above the field cuz if there's a pond you want to fence it all right especially around the playground is the same demand true for all five soccer fields CU if you take out that bottom soccer field there's a huge space for it playground too okay you could almost put the pickle ball court where the playground is I know we have we have to push the water further over which gets expensive but then you have a lot more space for more expansive playground with the splash pad if you want the playground in the splash pad next to each other I think it would have to stay kind of where it is cost effect you could shift both the pickle and the tennis court if that was what you wanted to do yeah yeah at least do that but and then move the trail with it a little bit yeah the trail doesn't have to be straight either right yeah no so in theory you push the I think that green space is bigger than the tennis courts so you could almost curve that trail yeah expand the playground now you're getting pretty big there you actually want to bring that trail closer to the t- ball fields you know true CU then yeah so that that Hill there I think is what we're running into with shifting to the right but yeah I think we could I mean who likes a straight Trail anyways that it would be a nice spot to sit and watch your kids on the playground and splash pad though I think there's some Advantage it is probably it's a little problematic but it's a nice spot to have speaking of Hills was a sweating Hill ever considered or would we say that Hamill Park is close enough Brad was big into the sleding hill concept honestly since he left it hasn't even crossed my mind so that's a good thing to bring into the picture Brad is a previous City administrator who has not been here in like three years so so I have not even thought about us letting out honestly um but if that's something that you guys are interested in depends if wi kind of happen naturally yeah I don't know wins will be better than well I wonder if where the playground was like previously you guys were oops I keep doing it uh there was talk about kind of that being on a hill and so maybe a little Hill doesn't get in the way we have to look at the old I don't remember it being like sling Hill no but we're going to be gring I mean that would probably be but you leave the shelter where it is cuz you do kind of go up that hill to the shelter any other final thoughts I've got highlight the creek move the tennis courts for a bigger play ground potentially a sleding hill see if we can fit two basketball courts into the hockey rink uh incorporate potentially a 60 meter Circle for Cricket two tennis courts uh potentially a tractor and photo spot or a T-Rex or both on top of theing to dinosaur riding ATT TRC you start it shoots you down that's yes dinosaur riding attractive uh agriculture theme seems cool and we're cool with the open air sheltered playground yeah and corn cob shapes FL with Silo fixtures uh you know current currently at the shelter at the uh existing shelter you can get your car really close to that for delivery for getting coolers and picnic supplies no you cannot because your car should not be going up that trail well no well I only do that once a year with trees but but there's a um right right uh it's on the on the south side of the little Bridge there there's a parking lot so maybe seeing if we can incorporate or keep the parking lot yeah for easier access yeah that's smart yeah yeah that's a really good point that white that white the white Trail there is that that's a city Trail versus The Three Rivers Regional Trail yeah okay I like how the Regional Trail goes around the outside of the parking and we do still have to have a conversation with Three Rivers as well as henan County to discuss the alignment of the parking lots and the entrances to make sure henan county is okay with that they're still shown in the same locations mhm but but we have to double check they they get to go to their current standards I suppose yeah and then uh we're we need to talk with three rivs about the alignment um H KGI worked with their standards to try and make it so that it would align and meet those but we have to talk with them further to make sure that everything looks okay as far as they're concerned in your summary list did you the storm water move that away from the playground yes I have that down okay all right any additional thoughts that come up Thursday April 25th at 5:30 there is a joint work session I'm going to keep saying it next week yes next Thursday [Applause] [Applause] yes so discussed last month was the park standards um I brought forward in this packet two different versions of it they're the exact same thing one of them is easier for me to read and I don't know how you all like to read things um so I included tracked changes version and non-track changes version um so the non-track changes version is what it would look like if you accepted everything that I presented as a change um the major updates were the policy development and inclusion so I worked really hard to try and get the park naming policy into the packet but I just couldn't I hopefully next month I've got really high hopes but I it I just didn't there's not enough time in the week um so that was one of them and then The Pedestrian Crossing was also something I had noted in there uh a memorial and recognition program so that's been something we've been touching on for the last few years but I'll start really honing in on that and then I included the recreational vehicle ordinance so that that's something we can reference um signage and wayf finding policy that would be another policy to develop but part of that is kind of in your packet tonight which we'll talk through in the next agenda item the other update is the unique considerations so I tried to summarize that a little bit more I pulled from the theme based and put that under unique considerations as well just to kind of compile it a little better we also had a resident request which is what was included on the diet us with your packet um redacted our emails for those who did not or may not have known that they would be included uh for privacy so a certain Katherine dreas would you like to present it yourself or do you want me to Su okay fine it's just one yeah so there was a very valid point of the line buffering in the form of wetland substan tree LS Etc should provide a clear distinction between parks and homes and to allow activities to take place with limited disruption to neighbors uh it appears that I only put it in the neighborhood part category so it was the suggestion to move it to either side amenities or extend it to open space I think it absolutely should go inside amenities or I think that's probably the best either that or landscaping and natural features I think in amenities and I think you could also say wait it is in here kind uh so under landscaping and natural features allow for AC outdoor activities without disruption to neighbors distinct boundaries um maybe it could be utilize landscaping and natural features into park design and possibly buffering does that mean yeah I just thought it just needed to be some place where it app to and you know I am being selfish and thinking about my neighborhood but we do have now I'm G to have to ask you to go to the podium I know otherwise our city clerk is going to yell at me Katherine dvis 6747 old stbridge drive so I'd like that part about the buffering to go someplace where it applies to everything and I realize I'm being selfish but we do have the situation at oldster bridge where there are let me just count quick one two three four five six seven eight homes that AB but the open space Park and they for the most part AB but the dry land portion of the open space Park so it just seems to you know important to me that if you're going to put something next to a 50y old neighborhood that you need to think about buffering and not getting too close and so I'd like to see that there and since I'm up here the other one that could possibly be moved um I think only appears in the neighborhood parks is about parking also and of course I'm a little prejudiced there too because I think street parking should be limited to places that actually have real curbs and gutters because otherwise or shoulders or something um because otherwise it just really people pull up onto the grass when there's no curb and gutter and they destroy the edge of the pavement and they destroy well in my case my creeping chargeing but you um but you know I mean I think street parking is a concern also and I just noticed that in the neighborhood parks so thank you thank you thank you and we do have parking under it says parking is necessary under connectivity so if that's an adjustment that we want to see let me know I think even in sight amenities we should be considering where we're putting them relative to the neighborhoods like in City Park we're talking about not putting the pickle all courts right up against the border with the neighborhood so I think it's not only buffers but it's location of amenities within the park should be considered the impact on neighboring should be considered so maybe the italicized sentence under s amenity is General items to be included in standard in every park with consideration towards disruption of neighbors with consideration consideration to prevent yeah I suppose that makes it sound like you want to this I would say too maybe in thinking of the open space Park and that there could be a possible access point off of Old stbridge there there could be a parking like a like safety issue because the roads aren't very wide back there and so if you have people parking on both sides of the road you could possibly not be able to get emergency vehicles through there so that could be an issue just to think about with regard to how we decide we do parking in that open space Park and that would be a further discussion right now we're looking either sitewide or specific to the certain types but that's something to keep in mind for when we start to discuss that a little further and then the other one I wanted to bring up we have you said we're going to talk about signage and wayf finding but I want to make sure that also it's considered signage outside of the park that's helping provide awareness of the Park's location so I think we have the rules one but just helping show that it's a public park because there's signs helping with Direction just spreading awareness I know some of them are in neighborhoods so it's hard to know what's a private what's public without even just guidance around that to say hey here's wildf flower Park this way or open space Park X this way so I think that's an important one to help the utility of our Parks grow and the awareness grow cuz even the one we visited today I don't know how you know that's there unless you already know it's there right now you do not yeah the trails are not paved yeah well in the future right even if there's a sign on the entrance it said hey wel come to this park especially with four different entrances to an open space Park where's the best one where do you want people entering so I'd like some just Clarity that like um I don't know what you call them directing or collecting signage should be do we want to include that in the signage and wave finding policy or are you looking to include that in here I don't know what that just saying I don't know what that line covers if that's part of that that's fine but I want to make sure it okay I think that'd be a really good plat for it sounds good but if you want to include it in this document that I mean I can I just need to know where you want it and how to incorporate part of that same line signing into way finding like but I would say like inter Park signage as well as outside Park I don't know like surrounding signage and I do want to note what you see in the packet next th for next Thursday's meeting will look the same as what is in here tonight it will not reflect the changes because unfortunately there is no way for me to turn it around that fast for a packet that is already started getting printed today um so be patient I will have changes but unfortunately this is going to be the information that gets forward for next week so maybe signage wave finding and public awareness policy rather than saying specifics because then that can be addressed in the signage policy advertising the parks things like that all right so to summarize I've got adding buffering under um utilize Landscaping feature landscaping and natural features into the park design and buffering um signage way finding and public awareness and I might try and make it even more clear because I want to be very specific spefic that if someone comes in 5 years from now they're they're not going what does that mean um General items to be included in standard in every Park and then I'll find a way I did not write down exactly what you said but I'll find a way to say to avoid disrupting neighbors um did I miss any we talked about parking but that is listed in here did we want to update the parking information well we have the we have a statement in the neighborhood park but we don't have it in the others open we do I thought I saw like open space Park doesn't say anything about adequate parking and probably should M I thought we had parking I thought I saw parking in neighborhood parks there's a line that says adequate parking it's but nothing in open space it might need to be just a general policy okay uh it's under connectivity so it's the final bullet it says parking as necessary so if we want to make that more specific and then maybe kind of take it out of the more specific ones or if we want to put it more specifically into the differing kinds of parks I think that makes sense because it could be different at different parks and I think part of it is I mean your neighborhood park could be different from this neighborhood park so it's all going to look very different which I think was the intention when I put it under connectivity to do parking as necessary because it's something that should be considered but it might not look the same for every neighborhood park and it might not look the same for every old space park right that's why I think it needs to be in both though and not just under connectivity well so connectivity covers the Citywide Park system so that's every like every Park that comes in these are things that should be considered as as they come in and then the neighborhood park I guess my vision was this is extra stuff that we should look at for neighborhood parks so are you saying you want it in the Citywide and the neighborhood and the open space I think it's good to have it in each of those spaces overall what you want open space then that's not that wouldn't already be covered like this would be our chance to get more specific just open space I think it would be a bigger question than just what we're able to discuss tonight for parking because I know parking with regard to like other conversations that have been at Council there's a specific number of spots and we do have some jurisdiction over how many parking spots there are for Parks so I think it we would need to decide what is appropriate for a 20 acre open space Park what is appropriate for a small neighborhood park like w Wildflower Park um but use some sort of language that specifies in each of those areas what it means because I'm afraid that that it just being in the connectivity part it's going to lose its value between neighborhood and open space Park like the differenti differentiation between those two different parts so if we do that we just have to come up with those specifics so what I would suggest is maybe expand on the parking under the global part so where it says parking parking as necessary and then maybe have something that says dependent on Park type and park needs okay specific to that Park something and then we don't have to get in the details of open space parking right so with that do you want me to still leave it in neighborhood park if it's not included in open space or are we looking to add it because it sounds like you're looking to add it to both it sounds like you're looking to only add it to the Citywide so I am switcher yeah I think we can leave the neighborhood comments and then if we need to add more to open space Community play Fields Etc later we can but it's already covered if we just expand a little bit on the Citywide par system so I have parking parking as necessary dependent on Park type and needs under cityway and then leave adequate parking must be provided for those visiting outside of the neighborhood on street parking near the park is acceptable under neighborhood park cuz we're assuming that applies to the other ones as well the other ones are more clear that it's outside residence that's why we added to the neighborhood one cuz it might not be clear that it's the outside residence where we need to account for well I think outside residents is just outside of you know if it were a development outside of that general area I don't think it's necessarily saying non-residents of the city no oh yeah was that the question sorry I might not have no you're saying the same thing I was trying to say okay I think what you said is good all right signage yes all right oh was going to came up today I think considering like seating or other areas even in like the open space Park we we talk about like Gathering areas but we don't have like seating for individuals specific to open space yes it's a good place for the memorial policy potentially to allow people to put benches into open space Parks places for quiet reflection and to be fair it doesn't have to just be open space Parks either we had talked at one point about possibly memorial benches and at city park as well so yeah it can be a global one but we when I was reading through it before I thought it only really talked about bigger Gatherings shelters for small Parks it wasn't anything about just areas of natural MH that we maintaining those natural areas might be good to have viewing spots or rest areas or on today's walk there was several good areas that we could have put put a bench or a area so I put that under amenities um it says seating to allow for Gathering do we want to change that that's what it was to just doesn't have to be gathering seating yeah well both seing for Gatherings and seing for just allow for Gatherings and scenic view point shs I think Alles thanks your [Laughter] shs that was sorry that was my last statement anyone else commissioner Smith you look like you got something just yeah I do you got me um so just as long as we're still on it um just like at the very top is just like an intended purpose statement of the whole document right to just kind of set the stage for what the document is is used for that's a good point intended purpose statement anyone have anything that they'd like to include in that intended purpose statement otherwise I can I can chat with GPT about it yeah see what the intern has to say Jackson starts soon enough I was refer to CH GP oh a much better way to put [Applause] it last call let's on the park all righty so previously this has been a discussion Point um the park signs we've talked about Monument versus rule signs versus tobacco free signs um so recently there's been an increase in dog off leash and pet waste at city park people don't pick up after their pets and I've already talked to two or three people in a two-day period about putting their dogs on leashes um generally I am not spoken too kindly when I do this so I would like to make sure that we get some signs up and in speaking with Public Works they are having similar issues so in an effort to mitigate that we are kind of trying to Fast Track this because now it's really becoming a problem problem and not just a hey this is a really good idea um so previous discussions between you all uh a QR code leading to all the rules was preferred and then the specific rules were the hours of operations dogs on a leash SL waste disposal uh no unauthorized motorized vehicles no glass containers no golfing no tobacco use no littering no defacing property and no Amplified noise after 10 p.m. the Amplified noise one might have been added by our Police Department um but those were the ones that I was intending to put on the sign this the last one literally Amplified noise or like loud noise Amplified like with an speaker yeah okay you can beat on a all you want I guess go the parks quo at some point 11 okay yeah what about alol use is that okay yep actually it is uh you can have beer and selters but you cannot it'd be really hard to have wine because it generally comes in a glass container but you try glass wine or box wine I mean uh and Y housewi um and you cannot have um hard liquor so that would be the only one that you could not have for the most part there's a certain threshold which I think is included in the packet a fermented malt SL sugar beverage that contains 6% or less alcohol BL volume so wine would be hard good luck no has in the r somewhere else in there side oh yeah my apologies yep yes it's down further 14% so but no tobacco use at all and that does that include marijuana as well now that that's legal there was a moratorium put in place and then from there did you guys put a rule you put some rule on marijuana I think it's within you can't do it at the park I know that much I think our earlier discussions have primarily been focused on where you can have sales business that sells it not where you can use it and there might be some State restrictions on what you can actually adopt that would a good question for things so I can look into restrictions on marijuana is that something you would feel heavily goes on the sign if we wanted to do that I'd suggest saying no smoking and tobacco brought it up cuz tobacco's on there already so I mean I who on Earth strip like the chewies whatever they are I have no [Laughter] idea no smoking or tobacco is that what I'm hearing M toac do we toac free do we already have no smoking is that a rule uh we have no tobacco use uh it is defined under tobacco product M did you say like no smoking and tobacco use smoking chewing snuffing or otherwise inhaling or ingesting any tobacco product can I make a motion to move forward with those suggestions yes but I have more questions okay well so keep your motion and add to it yes but pause okay uh so request of the commission General sign guidelines I think that it is valuable to add in these things these like Graphics so it helps get the point across much quicker and then people don't have to read it and if they are young and they can't read then they at least have a diagram and they can be like Mom the dog can't be off a leash um do we have a fine that comes with that that I see that on side sometimes just a reminder got to catch a man that's part of the problem you got to catch them no I'm not saying catch them but it's like a reminder could come with a fine CU otherwise you must have a means to pick up dog waste you could do that well so we so some of them are like leash pets and clean up feces keeping it as short as possible is going to be our best interest because there's not a lot of space on a sign which is part of the reason why I'm saying that the um diagrams are helpful um but I would have to look into what the fee or fine itself would be currently at a staff level we were talking like we just really want to go for that educational purpose to start with because finding people for having dogs offly you're not not picking up after them that's one thing that that one really GRS the because I think if you throw if you add the fines then that QR code kind of becomes obsolete because people can say I don't have a phone to scan the QR code and see all the rules and therefore they don't I didn't know they exist I didn't know they existed or something huh even if you don't know the rules they still apply to you right can you go back to those rules though are these aren't all the rules no right all of the rules are shown in your packet these are the important ones that we think these are the ones you all feel are important from I don't remember littering being on there and I'm not pro littering but isn't it kind of a universal rule at this point do we really need that on the sign I would say that in defacing property kind of go hand in hand we don't we want people to be welcome and just having one word welcome and then 20 things you can't do and I can reord it so let it's not just no no no no no I get that just say park rules yeah park rules would be better than no but but what what is the specific things we really want right no motorized vehicles I mean yeah I guess if we don't well considering someone on the commission invited to driving down your C once a year okay that one I would very very strongly advocate for I have stood in front of my fair share of cars that are driving down that pathway going like this uh so I would yeah the one I would remove would be littering it in defacing like people probably think they can smoke in most out of their ears so we don't want that they're going to have golfing I don't know people would go off in the park what is what is yeah so is it hitting the is it just hitting the balls pring H the bucket of balls cuz that guy goes out there all the time he's out there every morning so the concern was and this was brought to the commission by me to be totally honest with you um there were golf balls for a couple of Seasons just sitting out in the fields and when the Public Works team is mowing my biggest concern is one of those getting sucked up and there are a few people who W that Park and it makes me incredibly nervous mhm one of those goes flying and or just damage the equipment that too but I the people are important I'm going 0 to 100 I think that's a pretty common rule yeah is no maybe I missed it is no glass containers actually the rule or is just no glass alcohol containers no glass containers glass at all you can't have glass in the park it says [Applause] okay no glass containers will be allowed in city parks so if we're moving on from the rules a little bit the signage the Aesthetics of it the on that's my issue here yeah those are terrible please don't do it that way no we need one sign cohesive yes okay these are examples of what not to do I thought you meant the rule sign itself you're talking like the toe Z one one cohesive sign I apologize so one of the top two something similar to that with uh the vision is some graphics so the dog on a leash the picking up after your Dogo and then our logo the new one Park name so that's where that's where it gets a little dicey yep I know we don't have that yet I would say if you look at these they don't include the park name and that's because it's a lot easier and cheaper to get more of them well you have individual signs of the name of the park for a monument sign or at the entrance or whatever okay so they'd know what park they were at these are just rules question would these be at the entrance of the park or would be they be a little bit further in um probably near the parking okay we could have more than one well yeah yeah yeah like City Park wouldn't be limited to just one there would be a few of them throughout um are there any rules that come with the D Diamond Lake Trail like Three Rivers Park District yes they have their own set of rules but I don't think any of them would vary too far from ours to be honest okay just thinking we like in City Park we have to be sharing both of those rules somehow and they will have a trail head there so I think that's where they generally put their rules okay if we're going to do the QR code I know you can get them where you can get them in different shapes and stuff too so it's so make a CO a cool Q code or a corn cob or whatever or what dinosaur yeah dinos yeah yeah there you go that's got to be low cops y SW it's good like the both of these signs have four items really and that seems reasonable so we would have they have hours of operation they have unauthorized Vehicles they do they have glass containers no they have alcoholic beverages alcohol is per for to differentiate bring in it might help with tournaments I I wouldn't yeah I wouldn't know otherwise like that's not a honestly not a bad thought I think that's part of why we wouldn't put it on the rules so that people aren't going there just to drink but if we don't like the rule we shouldn't have yeah I think it's nice for things like Gatherings yeah that's where it really comes into play and ball games I guess you could have them at the you could have that posted by the um Pavilion Pavilion or the current one something around those more rule specific to that yeah yeah there's there's a picture in the package of the Maple Grove once it's not showing up there but it says like park rules it's the law is there something different about the Maple Grove Parks that they lawfully enforce those um those rules or is it just kind of to scar people yeah yeah they're not quite as friendly looking yeah okay I just curious if I was just curious if there was a difference between how they enforce or F or you know yeah so they got some good pictures there I think bla did the best job except for the add-ons G mhm Hamel Min like pick a decent Brooklyn Park try you see overnight parking on the haml one is that is that uh how do we feel about that I don't think it's explicitly said however the park closes at a certain time so by technicality I so you have to be out Poli we allow drinking our parks so maybe you do want to let cars car yeah like softball leagues and stuff so the vision I would like to have some flexibility to work with the vendor on variables such as wording and design and really hammer in on getting these signs ordered and posted as soon as possible um if the timing lines up I would try and bring it back to may but if we can get them ordered and up and ready faster than that I really like to how many you think in AB boarding at this point that's the question do we want are we okay if we order more for future parks in the parks that are like we have Wildflower Memorial Garden City Park the open space Park and uh the is Northeast so do we want to get more do we want to just get the ones for city park that's where the real issue right now is lying I would maybe do city park and maybe wildf flower the ones that are literally up and running is there a break point on pricing I'm assuming I have to talk to vendors still yeah yeah I would say try to get best pricing but this is our first go at this so we're going to post these signs and we're going to wanting to change I think so we can pretty much count yeah exactly so six sure well whatever you need for whatever you need over the city park I was thinking probably four okay somewhere around there I have to chat with public works on where they'd like them versus well they're going to want them every six feet we know that no four over there and then two at Wildflower at this point one at Wildflower and keep one SP yeah type thing so but there's this long I mean I would put one on each end of I suppose you get to two kind of main entrances it'd be nice to start establishing the start of that Park is the trail not the W not the bean shaped container so six should I clarify my motion do we need a motion for this or is it just that would be helpful yeah okay that's going to try okay I'm going to try I'm going to make a motion to purchase six Park rule signs uh remove the littering into facing we decided we don't need that one uh include hours of operation dogs on leash SL feces disposal no unauthorized Vehicles no glass containers tobacc free park or however that wording is and amp no Amplified noise with a QR code uh I didn't hear golfing unless I oh I forgot golfing thank you friendly Amendment to the motion and can I have flexibility to work with the vendor on variables such as wording and design yes do you trust me yeah I think some of those can be repaced by logos if they have a good like I'm sure there's a no golfing that's kind of it it's like there's so many variations to it I could bring back how many examples and there's going to be pieces of everything that you have yes we've talked about it three or four times and I think I can move forward with it I'll second that motion further discussion all those in favor I I all those opposed motion pass all right new business all right new business so the first item under new business is Heather Meadows Third Edition open space and preservation plat it is 88.2 two acres near Oakdale Drive and Heather Lane the plat results in 12 buildable Lots ranging from 2.3 to 4 acres in size uh 44.8 Acres of open open space to be preserved as farmland and two Outlaws the 2040 comp plan does not show any parks or off-road trails however a proposed on-road Trail is shown on Heather Lane and oale drive which would most likely consist of a painted Road painted shoulder on the roadway and then down here you can see this is the Park trails plan the park dedication plan doesn't include for any land for Park dedication which would make it all cash in L of land for 10 new single family units because two were already existing so it would only be the 10 new ones to make that total 12 at $595 a piece it would come out to approximately 59540 and staff recommendation is to recommend approval of the acceptance of the cash and the land for par dedication this is kind of one of the ones that I don't have a lot to say about it but if there's any question question I'd be more than happy to answer does the road get extended to cover that extra Offroad onroad space there would that's a good question the final design requirement would be determined by public cours um I'm just wondering what in Practical nature what does the onroad mean versus not having it there on our 2040 plan let me take a look at one thing so I don't disagree with any of the what recommendations I'm just curious need a bigger map yeah how it comes to yeah I'm just wondering if this road has to be extra wide to accommodate the extra anticipated onroad traffic or if it's just an extra shoulder dead end just comes down to a dead down herey one with no shoulder I would even walk on Oakdale this supposed to have off onroad um this supposed to have onroad on o yeah I'm right there you wouldn't walk on Oakdale no I wouldn't walk my dog or myself uhuh oakdale's scary and there's no shoulder so how does that count as existing on road you can technically write your bike on it from back in the day just wonder if that's the same thing for what they're putting in here just a road do we have the bigger map though as to where technically it's going to tie into anything if it develops yes I think it does there it is no one can't see it it's up up in the there head in the right direction keep going scoot you that way and there you're close right right right there well over a little more there's over there's other and what's south of it that's right right there yep and what's south of it though tying in yeah so if it ever went through it would just be on the road right cuz it's that one chunk that you want to develop right or the this one this piece and then see M no that one's staying isn't it I think it's just over here well there would be an onroad Trail right here that's part of it I don't know where you're pointing honey yeah I can't see the it kind of goes into it [Applause] for that's 30 at the bottom [Applause] [Applause] based on the fact that it said that the final design requirement will be determined with public works I would imagine we'll be working with the engineers to determine what is feasible for that location and they'll consider it an onroad Trail in that assessment [Applause] yes I mean it's kind of like Beck tolds an onroad Trail it's a dirt road you know we should have a like a standard for the road if it's an onroad Trail like you should be able to roller blade on it for instance or gravel grav you got to be the toughest rollerblader in the world how far without looking here I mean Heather is right there and where it extends it's not showing the houses on the the property there right it's showing you on their Maps those are existing lot lines yes so it's that chunk down there and Heather Lane will just come down and be a CU toac again and then eventually maybe something could come through as that other property develops and at that point the road might go through so there really isn't anything other than on Road correct the red the red line mhm yes that's that's intended to be an online Trail yeah mhm eventually if the rest of the pieces pulled together yep [Applause] so so this is an open space uh concept and preservation means there were additional building rights allocated because of the open space [Applause] you guys are getting a lot more than I I'm sorry I'm sorry I should we're getting more into like planning questions okay well this is a planning question but it does pertain pertain to the rural character of quirin is that is I this is because this is the rural area this should be a a one and 10 or a one and mhm and they're clustered The Farmstead has five development rights and the existing residential parcel of 0.39 acres has one the city's OS MP plat allows for development rights to be increased up to 200% in exchange for half the acreage set aside as open space as well as other design standards such as a paved public Street and with curb and gutter to serve the development so on road Trail so so the reason that when you look at this development it's half open space is because they did that then they get all those extra development rights what the city gets and its residents is that this space will remain rural in character until such time as the zoning changes until it becomes part of the m m part of the muses so it's not forever but it is for a good perhaps for a good while is we haven't done one of these I don't know if we've ever done we've talked about one a lot but it was a long time ago um and as I remember it that open space this was supposed to then have these Lots integrated into that open space we've talked about a few of them and yes part part of the criteria that is to be applied and planning commissioner going this more is the open space that's preserved should have some natural interest okay and the lot should be oriented so that they feature whatever that is if you're overlooking a wetland or a forest you want to Cluster the homes around that feature to take advantage of it it's not really the prview of the parks and trails to look at that but I don't see it well I think it's pretty much it's Farmland back there so I don't know how much there's and the applicant pretty to look at audience yeah I mean it's there's a fair amount of wetland but it uh in that lot which would make development more difficult but um yeah it sure is Farmland isn't yeah yeah MH so there's not a lot of of intrinsic value Farmland is pretty yeah it is it's gorgeous it's gorgeous maybe with a bunch of trees on it going to be a tree Farmer in the future okay mhm all right so my question would be does the lot 67 567 get the benefit of of having that open space but otherwise I mean I think that the park I think I'm very happy to take the [Music] cash that would be a motion I'll second it all right all those in favor I all those osed motion passes Fairway Shores is next back up all righty so last month you all looked at chq farms which was right next to so it's like we're just moving East um Fairway Shores Villas at Cook Lake this is a preliminary plat it's an approximately 40 acre property located directly east of 7600 Maple Hill Road which is CHC uh west of cook Lake and Northeast of County Road 10 and the Maple Hill Road Anders the plat would create 75 single family residential lots and five outlots uh you can see in blue down here the parks and trails plan it shows a proposed off-road Trail while there are no Parks shown on the comp plan so again this yellow line going through it and this is the property uh trails and sidewalks the plan chose an off-road Trail along the northern property line turning South and connecting to the trail previously dedicated as part of cook Lake Highlands um Maple Grove is requesting that the city consider an easement this came later after the packet was printed um Maple Grove is requesting that the city consider an easement from Street c off of this culdesac over um the idea is one it wouldn't take a lot of Park dedication and two it would have the potential to connect to a potentially future Maple Grove Trail so it would provide greater connectivity big picture um should Maple Grove decide to put a trail there there is supposed to be an East West three reverse Trail at some point and it might make sense for to go through this which would be difficult because right now we would be putting this in at probably 8T wide versus the 10 foot because that's the trail standard but then Three Rivers would be a 10 foot wide so it would either have to be expanded or it would have to be taken at 8 foot but that's assuming that Three Rivers would want the alignment through here um so different from it is different from the alignment on the 2040 comp plan um if we jump back you can see it kind of goes at a diagonal through the property this is because the grade change presents a lot of challenges um and it follows cook Lake which provides more of a natural beautiful visual um it is currently located within the buffer however if would be required to be moved out of the buffer and with that being said there is a way to adjust the buffer because it's based on an average and so adjusting some of the buffer to make the buffer smaller and making it larger in other areas would allow for spaces like down here where it is almost entirely well it is entirely in it to adjust Park dedication the net land area is 30.9 Acres 10% of the land area would be 3.09 Acres the trail Corridor is approximately 1.01 which would be 32.695124 6,000 [Music] and 5 $446,000 and5 oh man we can read it okay I also know how to speak less that 32.695124 20 the remaining cash in L of land would be $ 3,572 180 thank you for bearing with me for all of those numbers I apologize to the applicant I can normally speak better than that all that being said staff recommendation would be Park dedication requirements to be satisfied with a combination of the off-road Trail easement and the cash in Le of land and you the Commissioners are also requested to discuss the easement potentially from the culdesac over um staff recommendation in speaking with Maple Grove the possibility of a trail would allow for further connectivity and it's not a very far easement that would be required because this would likely be sidewalk going through and then this would be the easement so all things considered pretty short kind of similar to um Chast DEC where there was that other easement where it was just kind of a shorter easement um thoughts questions do you want me to try and run through the numbers again kind of Trail yeah I think I need to hear the numbers what kind of Trail is map thinking would go there is it an onroad Trail or an off-road Trail I would assume off-road but I will say that the grading over there is tough so whether or not it actually goes through would be up in the air there's no I don't think there's a plan Trail necessarily but they're looking at it as a possibility that being said it would likely just be an easement for the time being and a trail wouldn't go in because it would be leading to nowhere so at this time it would just be an easement my my just I know it would mess with the Lots but why could you bring the actual Trail all the way over to the right and around the trails are what's connecting rather than the roads I asked that question and I was told that grading is really tough on this site so how they have it laid out is and correct me if I'm wrong yeah it is Ste it's steep on the west side on the west side to the north we were proposing and up they wanted us to Loop down south Andie tell me about playing with the buffer more about that in my discussions with Natalie and please correct me if I'm wrong because you see buffers more than I do but it's based on an average and your average width is dictated by the quality of the Wetland okay but you can kind of shift it to make it skinnier in some parts if you make it wider in other areas to offset that I don't make the rules how do you add plan no you don't it's a buer it's where the where the signage is posted so it's distance from the so the northeast corner just south of the of the buac that could all be considered Wetland buffer and then the rest I don't know if all of it can more of it okay yeah say it's got to be seated and planted in a certain way to accommodate the wildlife okay makes sense I was asking so the just south of the culdesac Southwest that open area there in theory you could expand the buffer into that in order to reduce it down itself but there's but what there's the natural buffer or that's the required WID that's the current buffer I think in Red so required is big picture it's not necess necessarily required you know in this section it has to be this wide it's just they would have to shift parts of it to make it wider in other areas to make that part skinny does that answer the question yeah it does for me I think that makes sense does the the easement to Maple Grove I me uh would it like go along the south side of the culdesac and then over to Maple Grove is that what what they're looking for you know what I just got this package and read it myself I didn't even know that they were asking they asking for it yeah it was very recent it was this week that Maple Grove made the request it was not the applicant I mean because it it certainly doesn't work very well to have it to the on the North Edge because you've got your Lots in that area and and along the along the the to go to the south of the cold sack would you know other than the construction difficulties would make would make sense that's a fairly high quality Woodland Lake Wetland um and uh so any Trail we've got along there is is is good um and I would certainly be open to cooperating with my saying this cooperating with Maple Grove on a on a on extension like that I think that that serves both communities well um and would I wonder if Maple Grove would be happy to pay the uh the uh the difference I was thinking the same pay the difference well if we if if we require the developer to put in a bigger piece of Trail then we will get less we will get more Trail and less cash yeah but also keep in mind it's a very short piece it is a very short also benefiting the residents of to connect it would absolutely benefit I mean I'm just saying no I you know that's that's a really good argument I I I think if I would be in favor of that I have one question so if if that comes to fruition that's that that trail on the self end of that culdesac would it connect to that existing green trail then or is how would that look like so in the packet it said that uh the sidewalks would continue through Street SE so that would be the connection to the other Trail okay oh we just connect to the sidewalk yeah that's my that's my concern is that you have you're just connecting an Offroad Trail to Road and then we're jumping over to our Offroad trail trail which is why you asked the question wouldn't it make more sense to just connect that trail to the end of the cuac now that way the trail doesn't go on the sidewalk it which just wraps around the trail versus hitting a sidewalk and then a I think I'm confused on the question so I think we're talking about wrapping the trail around the culdesac is that right I'm hearing two things I had brought up can you go a sidewalk yeah y along the along Street SE so a trail isn't necessary because there's already a walking path right so then the easement would be like coming off of the culdesac so it would have a connection through the sidewalk on the on Street seat to both the Maple Grove parcel through the easement and then the sidewalk to the trail itself either North or South is that does that answer the question yeah yeah okay like yeah I just prefer if you have an off-road Trail on Offroad Trail not have to be jumping across driveways and they could use the street too I mean well so this one doesn't it it crosses the street you on the south side and any houses I guess is there going to be a sidewalk on the North or the South side of the it's on the North I think you said wasn't it I said I thought I heard or read somewhere I thought it was the north side it's called sack make wrong be it's theth then I think that's okay well so then we're going to have a sidewalk on the cell side that leads to the easement conne to map okay but in the graphic of the sidewalk it doesn't extend into the Colac but it says in there at some point which would make sense cuz most sidewalks don't extend any called the sacks so you would access that trail off of the culdesac then like literally off of the pavement so but would we still could we request to extend the sidewalk on the sidewalks will need to be provided up to the CU theck of Street Street D and Street e up to the cuac the cuac not in the cuac that's pretty standard though to have a trail come off of the culdesac yeah that's what we do in PL yeah I've seen that plenty times before it's doesn't look abnormal okay because you go right on the sidewalk it's very close okay does that TR with what is the development look to the West there the street go the street goes through to an existing development it's the one that's proposed that's proposed okay that just came through last week or last month okay we had a trail connecting on the top of the last one there too right in that same spot so the property on the west so that green line would continue on it's just the way we want to yeah okay thank you so yeah I we we're wrapping around I understand coming back onto the I would prefer if you were going onto the culdesac that there would be a sidewalk on the south side that would get you all the all the way to the trail without having to go on of the road and come back on um have much traffic on the south in the only houses problem is it falls off so much to WRA around the south on that call the you can see all the contour lines yeah there deep there okay I think I've been out there hard to walk who oversees this buffer easement if it's narrowed down here and wide at the top who oversees and verifies that it's done properly that's of planning planning and Engineering watered we lost a bunch of trees we didn't know we were going to lose and that was Mistake by the developer that well there's all kinds of mistakes out there that's why I want to verify that this is done correctly and the council put in means to help mitigate those problems or get some return mhm yeah we're good okay there is a bunch of trees on the south side of that cue saac would they go away if you did give the easement and brought it to the right I'm sorry I miss I'm just the to your question if we got rid of the easen on the southeast of that culdesac would you take out all those trees [Applause] then I don't know that I said South Southeast ever it's just an easement wherever it fits I think is the impression that I have probably to be determined by the engineering and planning staff just because it was a late edition so I don't know exactly where it's going to add where it'll fall okay but it'll probably just be wherever Contours allow just because the grading on that site I was told is horrible could it be possible to bring that back to us when we know what it is because it's kind of hard to say you're agreeing to something if you don't fully understand what you're agreeing to like where it will be or not I don't even know if we it's going to be yeah that's what they're asking for and it's Maple Grove asking it's not necessarily City staff here it's not necessarily the applicant do we have to do it now if you want the easement yes you have agreeing to the concept of having something there that's going to connect right we'll leave it up to the engineer to figure exactly the best and what actually is on the other side of that part of grow what is that all part of their new development over there well it's the golf course oh is that the backside of Rush Creek right oh yeah I think that this Trail is going to go really close to one of the into Rush runs yeah still quite way so I don't know how it would go in without going into the golf course oh interesting okay thank you but even I I think you can see a golf course Trail feet away from the proposed Trail it's like their path yeah so look like you're going to be going like right up against I mean it'll be a beautiful Trail you'll see the golf course but it is going to go right up against the top oh they have a trail that goes on the south side of the mhm you right against it you can see it on the map mhm so I think the assumption is that that won't be there eventually someone's going to develop that well that's Rush Creek though oh W it's all like Wetland almost right yeah I would have to it would have to golf it could definitely use some further exploration further further detail so it's a matter of do you want the easement it's not committing to full Trail it's not putting the trail in necessarily but it's taking the land SL that if you want to put it in later you can do we have a dollar value on that minimal because it's not very far but no based on the quick turn I'm telling you if I didn't get this this week yeah today can you go back sorry can you go back to that picture yeah do you have any concern with just interacting with that Golf Course like is the trail we're proposing going to be in the like firing range of the balls that's the hole yeah you're teaing off on the left up there and you're aiming basically dead at the trailer proposing might want a fence might want a fence you going to put bu golf ball prooof windows on that side of the houses there I'm sure they like the view but people walking in the or just some signage watch for watch for golf there may have been a reason our plan had it cutting through reason the trail connection goes through I'm assuming it's not a golf course anymore yeah I think that's I'm talking about the trail that we're put the current one that's being proposed goes right up against that trail even to where it comes within there's a trail on the bottom of that Gulf right if you go north right there there's a there's a car path right there so even the trail that we're saying putting in here it turns just a little bit Easter right there so it's kind of right along Tre okay but yeah there's the Lots in the colck are a little bit more open but so for our consideration I'm a little worried about that we'd have to somehow mitigate or make sure it's not going to be a problem golf balls going sailing through that Trail right there the alternative is have the trail go through sidewalks and streets with all the houses which isn't necessarily make for the prod Trail and it may be as simple as a fence with you know plastic through the chain L you know but I don't know if we've run into something like this before I don't know what I can do is I can pass on concern the absolute concern to the planning and engineering team so that they can be mindful of it while they move forward because I think that is kind of a valid point I'm not a big golfer so I wouldn't have caught that so thank you this yeah I mean it does look like it could be shifted a little closer to the homes maybe create a row for trees in between my only caveat with that is remember that we've recently had people come in who had concerns about how close the trail was to their [Music] home you saw that home today I guess one question I would have is when does the trail get constructed would it go in early enough that people would know exactly where it is before they purchase guess that's probably better question well so that's that would be in the second phase so we're going to start off coming from so you know exactly when it's going to go in tell you that years if you know it looks like we're going to get in grading if everything goes well we get approvals and we will be grading until like August of this year so be way out there but in terms of if it's part of your second phase would it be one of the first things you do in the second phase or would it be after you s a bunch of Tom wasn't there a tree section right over in that area that kind of became a there was it wasn't there it was elf little tiny goalie Pard little tiny goly mhm yeah yeah it was not on that property it was it was on property that was being yeah the further south though okay thank you were you talking about trees well we were there was a little there's a high value natural resource area in here a little tiny one right uhhuh yeah yeah on page three of six it is maple [Applause] Basswood the same page it's more prominent further south but there is some in [Applause] there yeah I think that that probably was uh where was that spot it was where there are some I think it was it may have been further west where there are some existing Trails lost s of that I think we dealt with it I was just wonder if it was near yeah it is near but exactly where MH yeah it was further a little South and West I think in that development that's already in there in there right next to that between that one and the one where they were talking about putting in the several story memory care unit yeah was right on that [Applause] edge you want to try to make a motion uh I would move to take the cash and move well to go with the trail as suggested to negotiate further with Maple Grove on the easement and rest cash cash cash on the rest e separate in the motion sure I'll take the easement up motion to do the trail as laid out uh and take the rest in cash I'll second that all those in favor I and those opposed you wanted I'm going to oppose the easement you'd like to okay I'll make then a second motion to continue discussion with Maple Grove on the easement from near cuac near the culdesac sea is that what that's called Street SE culdesac so are you saying you want to would I would my motion would be to continue discussion with Maple Grove with the intention of accepting that easement if the design is satisfactory I will second that motion all those in favor I all those oppos n i we don't yes I oppose or I don't want motion passes a rare a rare Split Decision guess that's where we vote all right reports and information planning project [Applause] update thank you thank you you so any questions you know Jessica I have an unrelated question is there any reason why we couldn't switch the order of the agenda around to get our developers out of here quicker we absolutely could have let's let's be doing that I I thought the same thing to yeah that's happened a couple week couple time couple months in a row for a developer had to listen to us talk about signage which they don't care about nor should they but his you know so if we have them again in the future I don't I'll have to see if I can adjust the agenda you don't I don't think you need to do anything I think we can just adjust the agenda at the time of the meeting amend it yeah remember that I'll try good luck yeah right somebody remind me we all work on it I thought thing for them to sit there that long going you mean they're not entertained well you know I I think we're pretty entertaining and and compared to some meetings that the those guys have to sit through this is probably better than the average this is probably the most fun meeting they get [Music]