I will go ahead that's on so I don't actually someone in the head bang it call the to order we'll start with a roll call on the he here lanterman herea Baron Camp here Nichols here perfect take the stand and join me in the pledge flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation God indivisible with liy and justice for all um agenda approval is there anything from staff looks like there's a couple uh one or two things removed and a couple changes amendments so Mr Mayor and members of the council item 6A was updated with resolutions the title of item a was amended and should just read streetlight ordinance discussion and then item 11 and 12 are removed anything from Council are we gonna highlight the fact that this is nisha's first abely this Isa Ste in charge's first meet yeah go easy on and on that note um Jay lets a lot of things SL do great um on that note for minutes Jay wanted me Jay reminded me to remind everyone including me to when you're calling out your motions or seconds to yep it's easier for minutes and as you can see we're catching up in some minutes Deb is here for is this your first meeting too second second second okay yeah so that's our new city you were excused last meeting oh yeah I wasn't here sorry I hate missing meetings okay um so I will entertain a motion to approve the agenda as amended so moved second bot Nichols and botma all those in favor say I I perfect open forum and Leisha if You' want to walk us through so ladies and gentlemen this is an opportunity where you can step forward and speak to the council about something not on the agenda Council will receive your feedback and this will not be a dialogue at this time Mr Mayor at this time we have received one public comment card and I'd like like to invite Craig esene of 19251 102nd Place to the podium right hi hey pray gospel in 19251 here in second place it's actually a question more for staff but I know it's been asked by some of the folks in the neighborhood in the city park that's going to go or to be south of 102nd we've been told there's going to be a pump station um we want to kind of understand where's it going to be placed um when is it going to be placed is there a picture that we can share and if we can get a purpose of what's it going to be used for why it's being put right there that's one and the second one is not on the list but I can't access the agenda packet anymore it's behind the firewall for tonight's meeting I was able to access it earlier but it's now behind the firewall thanks for letting us know so that's it appreciate it and um staff can well staff reach out to you and sure can answer some of those questions better than perfect okay okay on to is there anyone else for open form okay on to consent agenda which consists of items a through S would anyone like to pull anything well I I don't necessarily want to pull anything but I do have a question um I see a number of uh you know meeting minutes on the consent agenda I have May June July August of 2023 and then it skips to April of 2024 and then it skips to June July and August of 2024 my question is why the missing months yep council member lanterman um so there are these minutes are now on the agenda for appr for approval because they were not um they were not done by the previous staff that were here so we were just trying to get caught up okay so the the Y and then the missing ones were taken care of by the previous correct so that Gap okay those ones were taken care of yes okay thank you thank you uh anyone want to pull anything no i' like to pull six or five in please sounds good I was thinking about the same I'm sorry 5n yep okay anything else I had a question on 5 if we don't pull and discuss what happens um this was either direct staff to execute the letter of intent orine I believe that's come forward there's multiple options I think staff recommendation is what to ex execute that letter of interest so if you like P discuss that I don't see a need to pull it I think it makes sense I apologize that wasn't clear no worries all right so I will entertain a motion to approve consent agenda items a through M and O through S so moved Nichols second bar k all those in favor say I I I Mr Mayor yes can I slide in uh this is in consent but I want to talk about the opening to The Met Council land use advisory committee yeah can I just slide that somewhere in yeah how about we um amend the agenda to add a council report mayor council reports like right after staff reports that work that works perfect I'll make a motion to amend the agenda to add mayor council reports as item 10 and then shift everything down after that um right after staff reports I'll second that motion M ke second Nichols all those in favor say I I I perfect okay uh and Dean did you wna touch on that one yeah we we've done this in the past I want to keep doing it I think night night is an extremely successful event thank you to everyone that volunteered everyone that donated um I can't thank everybody enough um specifically this is the list in yeah there's a huge list our staff um Jessica Christian Buck um officer Anderson I'm trying to make sure I don't miss any of those folks that organized it got it he's not with us anymore right he was a part-timer who else help me on staff a ton of people I mean everybody on staff everybody jumped in but who am I thinking of JCB second in command there she is well I didn't see you sneak in I think you're thinking of Jackson Shipley Jackson goodness gracious program coordinator but in addition to that it really does take a whole city it's not something we can do alone it takes every Department every hand on Deck as they're available and can spare some time right but it it creates for a really wonderful EV and we couldn't do it without sponsors and the help from Council so thank you huge deal do you have a number that may be attended public 1400 is the estimate at this time and then it was neighborhood parties 20 registered which was big and they were all pretty well attended was great so I think it's something we' have we got to keep going period so yeah and another group in addition to the I mean they're kind of sponsors as well but a lot of the um cfic groups Lions JC's uh Nighthawks field team huge oh she pulled it all up thank you um hanin County Sheriff's um trying to remember people West Metro came West Metro Fire Handover fire we got ice cream item 5n if anyone wants to read it online in the packet to see who donated black huge guys JCB was kind enough to say she didn't want any of the credit well she's getting some I know sorry can't thank everybody enough it's it's a big big deal and uh if y'all missed it anybody online missed it plan on next year first first Tuesday of August AUST why Tuesday nobody knows but one of the memorable points from my experience was a neighborhood party in Amberly where my kids and I got to enjoy homemade samosas alongside uh homemade veretta plus a variety of cookies the neighborhood parties were also really place I love the mix that we do of neighborhood and the Citywide it's a good combo if you were hungry it was your own fault that's so true perfect a good time with that um approve their resolution make a motion second Bott Baron Camp makes the motion bottom of seconds all those in favor say I okay on to planning business item six uh 6A which is we'll have a public comment opportunity if anyone like to speak on item 6 a or 6B actually I'm sorry just 6A because 6B is a public hearing um so you have an opportunity there for 6B specifically if you'd like to come up for 6A now chance otherwise we'll go right into 6a's uh presentation um thank you Mr Mayor I I do have a number of slides particularly since the resolutions in the packet that originally got published um were not correct and so I do have everything clearly laid out in the presentation if Council would appreciate that or Council would like me to do a Consolidated version I can do that too any thoughts on that I'd like to see the correct information okay sounds good so for six a it's the applicant is Hope Community Development LLC we are talking about the northwest corner of County Road 30 and County Road County Road 116 surrounding the Hope Community Church site we did as a city approve the preliminary PUD and plat in February 2024 and after working with staff to meet the initial requirements and the preliminary approvals and finding a builder for the Villas and town home component of the site additional areas of flexibility were identified by staff and the applicant team the so specifically we will talk about the buffer yard requirements near the Villas and town homes stepb backs the landscape Islands Landscaping calculations for the commercial area as well as building permits prior to water availability so this is more just to kind of split up all the words with a picture this is the site we're talking about North is to the right um and so if we need to come back to this as an exhibit we certainly can for the first flexibility area that we need to talk about tonight as part of the Pud amendment is the buffer yard so the city adopted a buffer yard ordinance in 2023 and right now a buffer yard class D is required and the underlying zoning between commercial zoning districts and urban Reserve District so the zoning the zoning ordinance treats the general mixed U GMU as a commercial District because there's that potential for commercial uses and then um there are Urban Reserve properties to the north and west and there a buffer yard is required the however the general mixed use District actually does not contemplate Villas in town homes it was actually more apartment buildings as well as commercial District so one of the questions for Council is since part of the PE flexibility was to allow for a lower density product near that neighborhood could we look at a different buffer yard along those areas the pro proposal is a Class B buffer yard to be applied to the perimeter adjacent to the Villas and that is consistent with how we treat single family homes that are adjacent to the urban Reserve area and then a Class C buffer yard to be applied the perimeter adjacent to the town homes again that's consistent with our mixed residential districts that include Town Homes do you show us where on the map you're talking so let me pull back so again the the Villas are right here so if you Class B buffer yard along this line okay and then the town homes are right here in this corner so it' be a Class C along this line gotcha thank you so in exchange um they have further reduced the density in this area there used to be Twin Homes proposed they have removed those Twin Homes there's now 22 detached Villas and it's a higher end product than what was originally anticipated for this area the lots are wider than they were originally anticipated to be and a little bit bigger as a result as well additionally instead of 51 town homes they are now proposing only 45 so there has been a reduction of about 10 minutes in Acer we still on track to hit the density goal in the district overall uh but the the immediate areas adjacent to the existing neighorhood happen for the reduced in density um again wanted to split up the presentation with some pictures so here is an example of the town homes that are being proposed this is one of the elevations there as one of the conditions of approval we do need to continue working through a couple of items uh but that can be handled with the building permit review and then this is another example of the town home elevations being proposed what are those couple things um so the staff report it's more of we need to confirm colors and making sure that the we're going to have to compare the town home buildings adjacent to the building permit in front of us to confirm that there's a variety of colors uh the elevations do need for building material standards um the I believe these elevations though are these colored elevations don't show all the changes that they have made we have some less prettier elevation or um elevations in the packet that show the changes and materials that they need to comply with the standards so it's more of just confirming that we are getting windows on facades that need it it's so that will that is typical to happen with building permit review and so that will be where those final details get addressed but they uh will be held to those standards so that was area one and then the next area is setback flexibility uh some additional flexibility is requested on specific Villa lots that will be in a upcoming phase we have Villa Lots 11213 as indicated on the preliminary site plan for the overall development uh and so Villa 11 it would be a 25 foot setback from the front vill 11's requesting 23 feet Bill 12 is also 23 feet with a rear step back of 23 feet again both of those are 25t and then Villa 13 is a 21 foot setb back with a rear set back 20 the area there is just they are a bit pinched with the road location which is Set uh as well as the existing um property line so they do get a bit pinched in this area and so trying to keep the product consistent uh but they are still having a little bit of a footprint footprint change as it is um to try to make those setbacks work but they still need a little bit more flexibility there to make this pinch Point um developable and then I will note that for Billa 13 that step back of 21 feet also means the driveway length would only be 21 feet where we have a 22 foot requirement so that is called out in the resolution um additionally this was a staff error that I completely own I must have mismeasured one of the setbacks when we did our preliminary approvals so for multifamily f uh the parking lot adjacent to Oswald Farm Road has an 11 foot setback um I did go back and look at the preliminary plans and that was shown at 11 feet in the preliminary plans uh for some reason I measured 15 my first attempt so um that um that is just correcting an oversight on my part and then guest parking spaces for the town homes they are right now I can go back a bit here right now they are shown um to go just a little bit within the 25 foot setep back that we would technically require for a parking lot and we have treated these as parking lots in other town home developments um and so this is they just allowing them to encroach as they're currently shown it no closer than what's on the current plan um so that we have that those additional parking spaces because staff believes it's better that we have that guest parking than to have that 25t step back there is still a separation from the um Also regarding step backs um this uh is on the northeast northwest corner of the town home lots one of the town home buildings uh is a bit pinched with an area that the city has required to be dedicated as unimproved rideway to ensure access to the outlot that that is landlock right now immediately North there is no intent there's no plans at this time to move forward with the roadway it would be if that outlot were to ever develop it is possible that that outlock um could develop with a few other Lots in the area and get access other means but this would also still be valuable for utilities um regardless the with this right of way they have a pinch point where they only have a setback of 10.4 feet because it's right of we technically should need the 25 foot front setback instead of a a side setback and so the applicant is requesting that we also include that part of the PE flexibilities and uh in exchange they are proposing a fence and there will be that buffer yard for additional Landscaping to separate it from the potential roadway and then um staff did also further note that a 20 foot buffer yard is technically required and supposed to be on the site with the town homes but with a 10.4 stepb back 10.4 foot stepb back they're not going to meet a 20 foot buffer right here so we had with Woodland Hills we approved um when we required that right of way we approved them to plant the buffer yard as an interim measure um on the unimproved rway so using that same uh mind or same approach here uh the compromise would be they need to plant as much of the buffer they can on the town home site but where they need uh to encroach on to the RightWay to get the 20 foot width so that the plantings aren't overcrowded then the ideal would be to have that encroach a bit no more than 9.6 feet and then that would be handled as an encroachment agreement encroachment maintenance agreement for landscaping in the right if I can ask a question on that that's 50 fet why is it designated that the one how do I want to say this how do how do we designate that hope this this development gets has to do the entire 50 fet since it's on a property line why isn't it split between the two properties why is it all coming out of this because we the property to the West is a single family home and it's fairly un they to redevelop so if this outlaw were to go tomorrow if they were to come in tomorrow to try to put a home on there um there would not be a road to access that if we only took half right theway now but that would be I mean that is a consideration to keep in mind and why flexibility might make sense here because typically we do try to take right of way between two properties but I would say the difference here being there is an existing single family home with no intention to redevelop at this time makes sense but then again what what do we give this group for that right away to Gran right away to property to the north of them do you understand what I'm saying if if they need that access shouldn't that that property then pay for that right away and that money goes back to Hope Church or we're just opening up we'd want 50 feet we're taking it chop chop no option to change that whatsoever I think there's a couple things I think there's a current access agreement that provides access to that property so we don't want to change that condition understand that of planning Authority where you just can't work in a proper how how big is that access what is what is that access is it it's that's our minimum right away full-blown 50 so it's just kind of consistent with the approach it's a little bit of a oneoff unique situation but the recommendation is to kind of follow policy could you show the property map so we can see the adjacent Parcels Brian if you wanted to and the other thing I'll say is the the Western property line here lines up with that parcel's Western Property so usually in most cases we don't split it it was a larger property that expanded to the West that would be more of a consideration I don't want to spend a lot of time on it I just if it if it's one of those things that we can Define with a a fence can the fence go more into the RightWay to make that yard more aligned and then the fence comes down in the agreement when the RightWay is needed something like that so the so the fence a condition of approval is that the fence be located on the town home side because if there is a road we still want that fence there as a buffer but as part of the encroachment and maintenance agreement it would be anticipated that whoever ever is the assigned party entrusted with that agreement they will take down any trees or anything that's in the unapproved right away at their expense and then the distance from the fence to that corner of the property is 11 and 1/2 ft it's about 10 ft between the fence and that building um I would say that we're looking at probably a 28 foot road so it's not like the roads go up to that there'll be a little bit more separation okay again we we do 7 and 1/2t sidey yards depending on where garage start and stuff like that this is more than that I I'm just asking questions so so it'd be clearly laid out to the people who buy that piece of property that potentially if that property there gets developed they might have a road right next to yes they will have to would we have them sign that road as well I I think that would be a condition we've done it like another where there's a disclosure they have to provide um on the building permit that they typically see and check off on when you purchase a home I don't that's part of the typical home buyer process that's outside of the city process but on the building permit it would be identified as a RightWay we try to put discl understood I just we've had those before and there's a lot of people that have not read those disclosures which is extremely disappointing he's trying to prevent people coming to council and saying we didn't know they're and we try to do that too and we'll have somebody that says they didn't know that but I think I think we do our best to try to disclose it but if you want I think we have added condition in Bell weather um if you want to I don't know if that's in the recommendation by our staff I know for sure 100th Avenue there's a condition that 100th Avenue be signed to show that there will be a future Road Extension we could also do that here too so that there's a sign with than that unimproved right of way that it could be a future Road con you guys you guys have done a lot and stuff but much of it has either been ignored or it's just not to the liking of of the people that move in and then it becomes an issue so I'm being open and honest and transparent thank you for ENT you're always open and honest and transparent try to be so where would that rideway connect to if it was ever used property right landl right now okay and it's and again it's very possible that this doesn't redevelop anytime soon or develop anytime soon and in potentially it's a part of it's 20 years down the road and it's part of a bigger development project where access could come from from here um that is a possibility um however we have the ability right now to take RightWay as part of the plat we want to make sure that we're not oring a property so that's why we're taking the potential for access to come from here at this point and then again speaking from experience on my part I liveed with 24 property owners that own five acre lots each developer came in bought everybody out and then removed cleaned up and then put in a 55 and older community I have no idea if this would ever change these are all great neighbors great families um they've got a great life and such just there's a lot that can happen so and and that right away makes sense I just 50 ft teams extremes documents covenants however want to ride it so everybody understands there could be a road there someday so would it be a road or would it be a driveway um it would if we allowed a driveway the driveway would been right away we have permitting agreements it really depends on what goes there if this is turns into multiple Lots again that probably wouldn't happen next year that probably be 10 15 years down the road um but if that were to be multiple homes then it'd be a road if it's a single home then maybe it's a driveway um but the right of way is also necessary for utility too and that's also a standard utility Corridor thank you thanks Mr may do you have anything you wanted add BR thanks mayor and councel just a little bit of historical context with this lot uh pop Community actually owned this property this one to the north about 15 years ago we sold it to Tom Lial one of the conditions he asked of us if he purchased it was could he have a driveway so we granted him a 20 foot wide Drive dway easement to the property that was always Our intention uh but obviously it has now become a a right of away and so against the request for some that's a little B more okay so then thank you Natalie very much no not a problem Kevin thank you also was okay I think that is that so then we get into the Landscaping Island um primarily in the commercial parking area um we have provided some flexibility as part of the preliminary PUD to allow for um some deviations in the spacing so that we could align these islands to your back to align these islands to allow for some pedestrian path since it was such a large parking lot um I I felt that strongly that that was necessary uh and and I believe Planning Commission and Council agreed with that as well however um the size requirements for the planting of these Landscaping Islands um are square footage based on the planting area and it did not contate a pedestrian pathway within those islands and so um and we're kind of running out of space to require the islands to be bigger to accommodate those pedestrian Pathways and I continue to feel strongly that I would prefer that we have these islands serve as a touchdown point for pedestrians trying to access these buildings um and I would and have some less planting SP in favor of three and a half feet to 5 feet wide Pathways um so there is language now in the P Amendment resolution that would allow this and it also clarifies that we would want um at least one tree in each Landscaping Island um these Landscaping islands that are two stalls long would have need to have two trees as long as well as some ground cover and that would help to not further reduce the parking spaces which I would not recommend at this time because the 415 spaces required was based on the parking study submitted by the applicant and confirmed by our Engineers as well so the that would be one of the requirements and then that's in the resolution as is right now yeah right now as is that would allow for those Pathways and then I would when I also took a second look at our multifam parking lots it also looks like they were trying to have uh some pedestrian connections too within those Landscaping Islands so we' have I instead of having it just focused on Commercial the resolution language now allows that pedestrian Pathways to be allowed as well for the multif family yep do do we think trees that actually survive in that kind of a tight f space yes we have yep as a landscape architect you can attest to that we also had our landscape architect and um our our city engineer also confirmed worst case scenario um you can plant trees within concrete I I don't know if Steve's here Steve was talking about it but that's not what we're proposing here but there are way there are strategies to do that um if they were not to be viable planting spaces but that was why some areas where 3 and A2 ft would be okay so that we can have a little bit more planting space but then areas where we're trying to also meet adaa requirements that's where it be would they be irrigated or how would you ensure they I can I'll speak thank you um and Natalie just real quick that's what you're looking for and the applicant yes this is collaborating that's great guys it's huge um so the um so yeah so multif family areas would also have the same flexibility um additionally I found a couple areas where again we're getting a little bit pinched with the in the commercial Lots where like this drive-thru Lane and the areas for the dumpster that we kind of start to lose the landcaping island so as a problem solving approach to a couple of these areas um I added language that areas where an end Island cannot be fully accommodated an equivalent landscaped area adjacent to the parking install so for example um here and around here um would we can have that landcaping be provided so again we're getting the idea that we're not just having a whole bunch of pavement we're still getting that Landscaping but also allign for some deviation so that the site is functional um and again each island must include at least one tree with shrubs and ground cover ground cover cannot be rocks that is clarified in the resolution and then and rocks for gravel and then end Islands the length of two parking stalls must include at least two trees Natalie yes those islands count as imp uh imp perable surfaces impervious surfaces by The Watershed oh okay I think they probably do I don't know the exact details is a a large development so I could tell you I believe anything that sh curious because if we say no to having them be landscaped do they have to go back to the Watershed and say these are no longer being landscape I I think there I think it would just be an amendment to their like this is like broadly looking so that what the watered recently review was just a first edition so if these if this um multiuse or commercial or this would have to come back in through the wed so the water had recently approved yesterday their first phase which is just a Villas and town H okay so that's what they approve so it's less concerned we would take whatever we approve and make sure it it's evaluated at a future time yeah okay it just creates like a catch 22 they would have to redo everything that just because I was on the wed if if if this counts it's just something in my head about the calculus of impervious Surface versus impervious surface so okay so it hasn't been this phase wouldn't have went to the water shed yet correct this there's some assumptions on because the water shed looks at the whole site yeah to some level to make sure it works and then the final detail yeah so if we approve this for example and the watersheds approved phase one and two and then they go back and they and this we make this um hard surface they might have to come back to us for a different approval if they have to take out things to create they might just have to modify their design but this hasn't been final design yet so they would just have to account yeah okay so I my professional opinion would be do what you want to do it and they adjust to it fair enough okay and then uh again with the commercial area uh um the preliminary approvals wanted the um had said that the underlying Landscaping requirements would be based on the perimeter of each commercial lot and that uh did lead to um a large amount of trees and we were running out of space to accommodate all of them and truly it is going to be while there'll be property lines on all four Lots it is going to operate as a single site with the shared part lot and so the request is to apply the typical Landscaping formula based on the perimeter of the the commercial Lots um as a whole and then that will still lead to a significant number of we're talking about overall the development's going to plant over a thousand trees I believe and um over 800 shrubs so we're still talking about a significant amount of plantings throughout the development um it's just um making it a bit more of a workable number uh because the there are arguably a lot of arbitrary ways the lines could be cut to try to minimize that um and so they just prefer that just take look at the site as a whole for the Landscaping requirement Mr Mayor Natalie just real quick if you can go back to that yeah way in the upper right in the parking lot of the church it says propose medical D again that probably shouldn't be there yeah Flo Labb just do knce Crossing te no that's fair but that is um we are not proposing a medical building at the church side well we aren going to do 2D just thanks but that that's fair um so then the the issue of the water availability during the preliminary plat the applicant did not believe a building permit would be desired prior to operation of the city's water system um the city's water system is now expected to be operational in January best case scenario um but definitely quartered one of 2025 um and now that JP Brooks has been identified as the Builder for the Villas and the town homes there is a desire to move forward with obtaining building permits for two model one model Villa and one Model Town Home Building likely before water is operational and the applicant team did successfully work with the city of Maple Grove and obtained appr approval for interim Water Services for those specific units um so the Pud Amendment resolution clarifies building permits can be issued prior to the city's water system being operational with interim Services approved by Maple Grove um if any additional units would be requested in the future through Maple Grove then we would City would need to receive that approval um and then they will be responsible for the connection fees both to corkran and Maple Grove at the time of building permit and those fees are non- revend and they do understand that thank you m yeah that that was that was surprising so um and then finally a request as we worked through the development contract came up regarding trunk line availabil ability charges specifically for the church site um and the applicant it requests a ferral of those Tac charges and uh their request was for five years or for uh until a final plat for the commercial or multif family building comes in whichever comes first and so the city code does contemplate deferrals of TAC however when this was reviewed by staff and the City attorney it was believed that the deferral Provisions Were Meant to assist properties that were determined to be part of an area approved for immediate utility Service as the result of a city initiated project not a property owner initiated plot and this is uh suggested further by the language assuming the city has taken out bonds to pay for the infrastructure it specifically talks about how we would charge an interest rate 1% above the city's borrowing cost and obviously we have not taken out a bond for that at this time so at this point staff does not recommend deferral of the church site fees um should city council choose to Grant a deferral um staff recommends that we'd be very clear about the deferral period and what would trigger that um and we could certainly use the applicants language and then do not we also do not recommend the city Bond or Finance the TAC instead the TAC should be subject to the P schedule at the time it is due and that way we're not tracking interest at the in the interim I have a question on this one so maybe I misunderstood how the system is intended to function I thought that Tacs were applied at the time of final plat the thing that is being final platted like if there's a new addition on uh lar development they're paying the TAC on that addition but not the overall site is that correct yes that the the uh Church site is being subdivided in this ver in this final plat because the North End of the site will now be put into an outlock for future development so that's why it's becoming due now um but that could that definitely is something to consider it is an existing use we are treating it as an existing use in terms of how we're charging the TAC for the church site um but it to be clear it is being final platted at this time because of the subdivision on the North End of the site and it's kind of Northeast um can I ask a question how much are we talking about talking about about $40,000 right around there5 45,000 so again this is a whole site Al together it's different than the industrial park in the middle of town here where sewer and water was brought to it and people had time to refer those costs exactly for two years and then there's some we've extended a third and fourth year so explain the differences to me that that was a city initiated project and that area was determined for immediate availability of utilities and so the deferral was to work with those Property Owners because it was outside of their control the difference being here is this is a property owner initiated plat the timing has been within their control um so all right yeah that that'd be the difference and that'd be the precedent you want to consider um in terms of how we handle other plots that might come in where there might be an adjacent use that's part of that plot um but they it's an existing use that technically is on sewer I'm sorry septic and well and so they might be kind of wanting to ask for that same deferral I personally am not not saying that we can't do it we have it in the code I read R really yeah really thorough and we can do that deferral and we can track it we can trace it 1% above our borrowing costs all of those things I understand all of that but yeah it just it's just the overall uh we have to keep in mind that we do have a system coming online those Tac charges are really critical right now um and so the staff recommendation overall was not defer we're burying Water and Sewer down the road Ro all the way to the water tower just water to the water to the water tower but nothing else Beyond this first and second phase there's there's no other sewers so then why the charge up front so just one other Nuance so it's it's nicking the property so it's benefiting we're not charging the full acreage of that uh it's US based on the up L okay acreage of the full acreage which I don't know what the size of that lot is but it's more than one we're just recommending the one one unit so we're not taking the full acreage of that lot we're just taking the one unit for the AC structure that's based on past practice what we've done with other properties and that's a charge whether or not they hook up or or not that's their choice that's a separate they have to get approval for that and then they'd have to pay a different that's a connection charge this is just this is just availability so when the property changes as part of a plat that's when we look at taking area charge instead of a full Upland calculation we just be one because it's more of a Nick and there's an existing structure so it's it's like a middle ground how we've applied the process before so what we're trying to get is we want to revisit that we' be changing the preced and other scenario staff would been recommend to follow that new preced so it just get it's a little nuanced and complicated but the primary difference in staff's opinion is that that they're asking for this change with their plat versus the city applying uh you know that available Natalie used the correct terminology but instead of you imposing it on somebody there was that Council wanted to provide some relief because they were not choosing to do that understood so that's the differentiation again we can talk about that can I ask a question um so let's pretend lar has a for any Builder has an 11 phase uh development and the so they their first phase is scheduled for October or whatever do they pay all of the hookup charges not for all 11 stages just the one that we have approved at council at the time right so the availability charges are based on the like the final Lots in that final plat so the availability charge is based on lots that will not be platted again in this first phase that is all of what the calculations counter so we're not talking about the commercial area we're not talking about the multi family sites we're not talking about the that will be in go back to lar okay first first addition first be deferred yep okay yep so until and then the connection Fe is have building permit lar builds a i 50 houses in their first phase and then uh right at this stage in lenar they pay the TAC charges for all of those houses and that means all of those houses can connect to water right away when they're built so the TAC is based on acreage but yes so all the houses in that first phase we would take the acreage of the first phase yeah um and that's what the TAC would be based on and then um as they submit for building permit they pay their connection fees connection fees and so then yes once the house is built they have access to Water and Sewer so one part's collected at plat one part is collected at building permit and then there's also pass the pass through M for growth charges that are are also collected build so the TAC charges are pre the houses actually even being there's a separate charge when a house connects to the water then there's this new charge that people get Once once they actually connect so the TAC is charg of the development the option final plat yeah is there any difference then with water accessibility or anything in in this case is it the same as what we would charg other developers are do they get water they have water there and Sewer or whatever do we have we split them into Northeast and Southeast so two different districts but they pay the same fees as any other any other developer in the Northeast District so it's based on aage of potential development not actual water use or con connectivity yes because in theory our trunk system is sized to handle what our land use provides so the size and all that's factored into the system that we're build that cost to out that then are spread over the users that on an up basis and we want to collect them ahead of time that's the staff recommendation that's our policy because if we we have a significant investment if you know if for some reason something happened and we commit that land to be able to be used for that um and if the you know if there's a downturn and we collected it later there would be some risk that we're tying a land um it's how we've treated every developer we'd have to change if we deviate from that we have to the recommendation just to treat everyone differently but differ than we do have costs that we have to make sure that we appropriately account for and that's that's this is the process there's no diff there's no difference they're being treated like any like everyone else but no difference in the water accessibility I mean maybe Grove has every Community has it a little bit different but we passor Maple Grove we collect Pac at plat and then we assess connection cost at buildings is there any Maple Ro charge associated with this as well not the TAC the connection Fe so if the church decides not to do they would do a connection permit is my understanding so if they decide not to do a connection permit in the Intel City sewers operation then they would not have to pay the M gr fee and C are outlining the development um and then just to throw another um another fun caveat so the uh lot one block 11 right here has an existing single family home um the parcel um and someone is currently living there um we struggle with whether or not to plant that as an outlaw and then create a non-conformity by having that single family home or platting it as a lot uh to allow that to remain until they ready to redevelop it as the multif family site um we determined the best approach was to Plat it as a lot and then there is a condition of approval that it must be replatted that is also a lot that will have at least a portion of the three reverse Trail Corridor through there so it'll just be best and cleanest to have that replatted once they're ready to develop and then as such the TAC for that site is deferred with the current language in the resolution and the development contract until L one block 11 is replatted for development that's good question and I I don't know if this is for Natalie or or Kevin but let's say you have a development development um turns into 10 different development contracts and let's say there are conditions laid out in contract number two you continue with the development phase three phase four phase five if the subsequent contracts do not negate the conditions of contract number two are those conditions still expected are they still enforcable so we have the this first contract is the master development contract and that basically sets the stage for everything and then yes unless there's some documentation within either a resolution and or future development contract that clearly states why we deviated from something stated in a previous version the prevailing document would be that Master agre Okay so just to be clear you have a master agreement there are conditions laid out in that original agreement the development continues over time okay and so you have subsequent development contracts if those subsequent contracts or subsequent documentation does not if if they do not specifically negate conditions from that original contract then it should be expected that those conditions are completed correct yes no yeah the mass outlines everything andl timing for when like offsite improvements of Transportation turn so the first one is like you can't add any more than the first one okay and then whatever like goes into each of the subsequent ones they are slick Standalone contracts that are viewed separately uh separate contracts separate letter of credit they're accepted separately they all should tie back to the master unless there's a documented change but they it's Standalone contract as part of the master okay so just just to kind of clarify in my head contract number one says we have to to plant a tree you continue with the development no subsequent contracts say you don't have to plant a tree because nothing addresses that tree at the end of the development it's expected that that tree is it should fall into one of the 10 if we're doing your job okay all whatever how many of those 10 it take should identify everything the master okay either either per the entire agreement or documented change okay so it could take however depends on when they come in they should all address that Master agreement some capacity okay so there should be documentation of something changes and if there is no documentation then it is expected okay thank you um and so now we can get into that was basically all the P amendments flexibilities requested um and then we can move into the final PV final plat uh request so assuming this is always under the assumption that those flexibilities move forward um the application in front of you tonight is to move forward with Villas in town homes to be develop by JP Brooks we are talking about four Villas along Hunter Ridge and then um 45 Town Homes within this area um if the P amendment is granted the final P plant complies there are M with conditions to clean everything up and get everything on a strong foot so most notable is a wetland buffer establishment plan must be provided for approval by our City's Wetland specialist a revised preliminary site plan must be submitted which clearly indicates all applicable setbacks we're working with a lot of different setbacks and I want it to be very clear what we're dealing with so that we don't have confusion later on um then we also need to revise the development summary on the preliminary site plan it because it has looks like there's some confusion in the amount of parking stalls required versus the amount of parking stalls proposed and that just needs to get corrected and then two more pedestrian Pathways need to be shown within the commercial area um within the Landscaping Islands to meet the six Pathways that we called out in our preliminary approvals the revised final site plan so again when we talk about final site plan we are just talking about this first phase uh RIS final site plan must be submitted the only thing on there really was that the um there was a note that said the guest parking stalls meet a minimum dimension of 9 feet by 18 feet unless otherwise indicated and they do need to be that 9 F feet by 18 ft the one concession I made is that up to two stalls if more than nine stalls continue to be provided up to two stalls may be marked for compact parking only which would allow for a smaller width of 8 ft and that could be a SL concession we make there again over for all the goals to provide parking um and then if the Pud amendment is granted oh sorry I don't need to keep reading that for uh additionally a revised final site plan uh should show um Landscaping of at least three feet for parking areas with four more stalls to screen vehicle headlights from adjacent residential lots and streets we need a preliminary Landscaping plan again when I say preliminary we're talking about the site overall and that is needed to confirm that at least half of the plantings must be a Northeast District identified native species that's one of their resiliency strategies um at least 867 shrubs must be shown and a decorative fence needs to there is a decorative fence on multif Family app but it needs to be extended to run parallel to the parking area adjacent to the sidewalk along Avenue and then a revised final Landscaping plan that's specific to phase one again needs to show screening for parking areas with four or more stalls it Le 's one that actually is for more stalls that we would need just a little bit of Shrubbery right there and then I want needs to be updated to show that 20 foot buffer along the west side of the town homes with that encroachment into uh impr unimproved R of way so this is the Landscaping plan for that first phase um so right now that buffer yard uh is squished in right here and we just wanted to get that even 20 ft to make sure that those plantings do survive we've been told that the plant within our buffer yard is there's a lot of planting already required and to squish it down further is a concern that these really will not be viable without providing a little bit of flexibility there um and then the four parking lot the four stalls right here we just need some shy at about three feet to Shield headlights from Hunter's Ridge can I ask a question on that and I don't want to derail go back to that picture when this first came to us wasn't the conversation on the west side of Hunter Ridge that was going to be an open space deal or this H has always been there is that a bad dream I had or that was when it came in as concept that was not what was Pro uh proved preliminary the Tot Lot that was shown there is uh still shown on around the church area on the church no and and again I I would rather see this than a top lot because anybody walking across that street it's it's a safety concern so I just I didn't dream it thank you yeah very much what's the density of phase one uh it was it was about a little over eight units. I think that's the set overall changes and then uh density exhibits the applicant did submit some density exhibits they weren't quite what I was looking for and so there's just a condition of approval that before we release building permits that continue to work with me so that I have accurate exhibits for plant monitoring reporting um and then final elevations again will be revised and approve with building permits there's no additional flexibility requested they will be expected to meet that and that'll be something that's confirmed by myself as well as our Construction Services specialist when that building permits come in um and then if the Pud am Amendment and final PUD plan is approved then the final plaque complies with just a couple approvals of condition one uh this final plat must comply with the city's Street naming policy the final plat still shows hope way for that Main Street into the development and our street naming policy has that of 100th Avenue um if Council wants to remove that condition then we can certainly have that debate um and I'm previously established dnu eement and right away te's trying to Hitch okay she just tried to slide over that I'm almost done with my oh I'll be quiet we'll talk hope [Music] Bo afterwards thank uh previously established established drainage and utility easements and right of way um that will now be in conflict with what's currently shown in that area must be vacated in favor again of the newly established easement and WR way um the right of way that would be vacated for um Hunter Ridge in oswal farm uh where there is an existing roadway until that is corrected with the improvements that will come with this development we would have a roadway easement that we can later remove further the benefit of doing the vacation now is there are lot lines that are technically within right of way so we do have to um remove that right of way to move forward so the recommendation at the this time is to approve the uh three resolutions that were updated uh 91 approves the Pud Amendment 92 is the final PUD plan that's probably the thick of any changes you want to make but the Pud amendment is the new flexibilities we discussed tonight and then 20 2493 is approving the final plat and development contract as part of the final plat resolution the city is officially commencing the right of way vacation we uh because it's right of way we have to take that extra step um and and it would be for along Hunter Ridge and oswal farm in favor of the new right of way to allow for a 90 degree intersection Improvement and that is that Dean did you want to start us off with hope I want to resolve that issue okay and I completely know and understand the reasoning to go to 100 Avenue um obviously with my daughter being on dispatch for 911 henen County all that stuff we'd love to go to numbers instead of all these other words and stuff if we can't go to hopeway I have a proposal to change it hopeway at 101st Avenue is there a way we can do that type of nomenclature to include hopeway in the name of the road and it's still 100 and when we have street names that have two names I'm not saying two names at 101st it 101st or 100,000 I I just we and I and I know what did what came out of the ordinance change and everything else um in renia that is crazy trying to remember where all those roads are and stuff but it fits that neighborhood what about 100th Hope Avenue that almost sounds like an address though I know yeah I suppose that's I'm just saying is there a way it can be added into I understand the hund I understand that identifier for public safety for everything that goes on but we talk about our heritage we talk about our rural Heritage we talk about very important people that have done things in our city are are are Founding Farmers um you know we've got strer we got Ste road we got all of these things Eber e drive or whatever it's called me we get so many of them and I believe that this is something that needs to be recognized for this group of people um I don't want to say investors anything this group of people that have a vision that started somewhere in the late 90 90s of 1900 um 98 99 whatever anybody remembers that time probably some of you are probably weren't even born I just this is something that I believe deserves that identifier we're going to put we're going to keep oswal Farm Road right um yes the the South uh south of H 100 would be oswal we're going to keep Hunter's Ridge correct H is hopeway is Right There by Hunter Ridge again I understand the public safety we have the authority to do it it's a street naming policy so yes the council can tells to deviate staff does not so that's why staff is going to continue to rely upon we could make a motion that we yeah you could make a motion to remove the condition that RIS the pl but I would like to I do need a street name because I so is it is it hope way is it Hope Avenue is it hope 100 Avenue what was proposed hope way are we open to New Hope way no no I think with modern GPS in yeah you know I work on an ambulance yeah figure it out it's not like they graph everything out to find it it's it's not there's there have been times I've plugged in a street number and it doesn't even put me close to the street that I was going to I don't think any of the five of us would disagree with keeping it at Hope W I'm with yeah do you we could vote on it I'll make a motion that we have it be hopefully so amend it to be be a motion to amend the final CL resolution yes okay without actually yeah so we have a motion a bottom a second to make that Amendment okay uh all those or any further discussion all those in paper say hi hi hi okay there we got one done one done how about that thank you all for your patience tonight this is a big deal and we all are going to have our names on this prior to Vel Ms those kind of things there's it's been a different group this is our first one and I want some type of ownership even though I'm not part of the Investment Group or the development this is a cool thing and over time it's going to be a huge addition to our city so I'm gonna put on my resident hat for a minute uh for Woodland Hills we added something to the development contract to require that before cic occup an occupancy is issued landscaping for that lot had to be installed and that was to counteract some of the tendencies that we seen amongst developers to delay installation for unreasonable periods of time I'd like to propose for at least the single family portions here we consider something similar it is in there now it's not part of our verage I will add that we can't hold certificate of occupancy through the Landscaping I am working with our Construction Services Specialists about figuring out a certificate of occupancy escrow that we could hold to ensure Landscaping is so there's a process we're planning to come back to in hopefully October to not with sta I'm sorry outline that with you um but just just to clarify that that is in there we're gonna have to still figure out what that process looks like but that is that is intended yes is it fair to say that the enforcement mechanism is something you get frustrated with because it's already in the code good work good job bringing up here so going back to the other uh discussion issues like the buffer yard items um and setback does anyone have any concerns they want to start with there or talk about there are we all good was proposed by staff I don't good do we have to make a don't have to make a motion on this I'm just going through a few few items that I made notes of that are decision points need to make nothing jary looking I'm just dring my notes gotcha on the presentation none of the staff proposals was particularly alarming to me I would be happy with same with uh the guest parking item yeah into the setback a little bit on on the um if we're going to allow deferral on the there there was a question about what is the right rate for that I would suggest that we consider the large Bond we issued for creating the water system as The Benchmark because that's really what is driving this to be possible don't remember what that rate was but adding 1% onto that would seem to be the right value if we decide that we're going to change current practice but from the tenor of the conversation it sound like there wasn't really support to modify existing U precedent yeah I'll open that up to you guys I think um I with staff of that it does raise some concerns to me about changing president overall what well I understand better and it is a one unit deal and such I would rather have put it off and whatever but I'm guessing it probably isn't a dealmaker and I don't I don't want to open the cans for other developers and such I I'd love to be able to uh fulfill a request but I think it's less of a hassle now than going down the road I might feel differently if it was like a $5 million charge or something or it's huge compared to what's being platted um not put $440,000 it's not certain Jeremy me and my golden sandwich do you have any yeah I wish that there or I guess um there doesn't seem to be unless I'm missing something a unique situation that arises with this compared to the other developers yeah to set it apart yeah if if there was something like I don't like to make up new policy without some extenuating circumstance I'm going to and I'm open to hearing about those but I I haven't heard anything but we do have precedence of being able to charge interest on the TAC charges if I can say something real quick sure Dean apologize I justk I go back to the tower was supposed to be in that open Park in Belwood all right and we've done this with the cooperation from this landowner this developer and such that's worth something um we spent money that we didn't need to spend to buy that land for that water tower we had that all in the Bell weather plan and such again could have been charged a lot more than what was there not saying it's right but but they've done things to be a good neighbor to us and to help us and stuff just saying there's there's been some things and such and again 40 Grand probably not a deal breaker but I still think there's something there for us to say I don't want to say thank you I don't want to say favor I don't want to say any of those things I just yeah I said it because I am the way I am but I just is there something there I'm asking the council so thank you Mark you have no I I I don't have any concerns and I I want to be mindful of everyone's time right first of all U we we would not ever want to be treated with any preferential treatment that anybody else in our situation would be treated so we would never be asking for that from our perspective we weren't able to be able to hook up to either the sewer or the water with this first phase so we were just hoping to defer that to the second or third phase which would be maybe senior residents and so forth but also listening to what Kevin and Natalie have expressed tonight it it it seems like uh the mechanisms really aren't there to allow that deferment for us without without treating us in a preferential way and I would say that one of the most important things to us has already been decided tonight and that's the name of Po way so I I feel like that was a give to us from this Council and we deeply appreciate it and we are fine with you know absorbing that t okay is it can they not hook up the first phas to water let's not hook up it just makes more sense due to the proximity of the structure on the lot it's a fairly large lot on so they could um waiting allows them to do it more efficiently so again the area charge is different than the they seem like they blend together but the way we structure it they're separate is the availability to change the pl a lot that triggers and so it may feel like a Nuance in in our world in terms of how we try to apply it equitably it's pretty clear appreciate the conversation um but they are they're two separate things connection charge the way we structure Mr Mayor thanks for letting me add those comments and uh thank you Natalie is there anything else big topic wise that we missed no I because I made the error to begin with the resolutions um if if everything is to the council liing I'm pretty confident what we have in front of us is ready to go okay then that's the case make I'll make a motion to approve resolutions 2024 991 92 and 93 second second GNA give that to some motion to give it to lanter give it to lanterman okay he dropped it so I'll give it to the second to lanterman I won something you did something you didn't win anything man any further disc all those in favor say I hi i m May much yeah you wanted to say something we just stepped on in yeah okay don't say something that's going to make us change our mind you already voted sometimes less is more that's right so what I I do want to say and I be remiss as a development team to not thank City staff um they have spent a tremendous amount of time and energy working with us and truly collaborating with us so I I just want to thank Natalie and Kevin for really kind of helping us through this process this is not an easy project as you can imagine with all of the moving pieces and so uh you know Natalie keeping us straight with the code and understanding that where we're at Kevin working with us with a very Dynamic environment right now on the site with all of the on here right now it's it's been a challenge uh we are we can see the Finish Line at least and so we really appreciate it um I just would be remiss if we didn't take some time to at least say thank you so thank you thank you for saying that and now was going to mention as well Natalie great job and you put a ton of work into this and some some long nights and some stressful days and you did a great job so this is only the first pH Mr well this is the hardest one now that we cleaned everything up with the beauty Amendment we're still we're still talking more about H Meadows everything aren't we we have a [Laughter] couple okay we'll go on to uh 9B which we have a public hearing for so I will go ahead and open the public hearing would you prefer St yeah you're right we should do that first let's do that first thank you Mr Mayor so again this is a easement vacation this is not the right of way vacation that is scheduled for 926 so this is just very drainage and utility easements in can I make a motion we have to do a public hearing yeah public hearing we're do public before the presentation it's two slides a lot of people that might be here for the drainage and utility easement they don't necessarily know what that means um so again this is for the previous site that we were just discussing um and it's for previously established drainage and utility easement so we're talking about right along here um where these will now be replaced with new drainage and utility easements or be replaced by new RightWay within the plat um so Utilities in that area will still be covered through easements it's just kind of rearranging things because of this intersection is going to be improved um and so staff recommends approval resolution 97 approving the D eement vacation for Hope Mets great any questions not I will open the public hearing good I'll entertain a motion to close public he motion lman all those I say hi do you want to make a motion on the item I wanted to make a motion on 6B and it's not unusual that I would make a motion before hearing a presentation because we have the packet and we read it um I'll make a motion that we approve item 6 p I'm GNA give that one to Baron Camp because Mark got one earlier so bot Baron camp and that's uh just to clarify to approve resolution 2024 97 um any further discussion all those in favor say I I by thank you very much we are done with those items oh wait there's one more helper on to what do we got here is it uh the business yes we have a public comment opportunity for items 8 a and 8 B if anyone would like to speak think we're good did we uh 8B was take isn't it crossed off on a re I was looking at my own rename the street lighting policy oh okay fair enough perfect um so we'll go into eight a if so we you need to close public commentary public comment we need to close did I not do that no not yet I make a motion we close uh I'll second it uh any further discussion I think we only need motions to close public hearings not public oh yeah yeah I thought they were talking about the previous one we did okay okay I'll make a motion to approve 8 a early grading it's very common that we start grading before we before the winter season do I have a second second Nichols any further discussion he did it does have any concerns with us it's a straightforward one they got water approval a couple tweets it's the standard agreement so there are no acceptions to this all right all those in favor say I I thank you guys if I can say one thing JP Brooks we'll do our best great to have in this community we have Street lighting uh conversations to come if you may want to stick around for that make sure we inst could beill make sure you install we have a street darkening policy yeah I got one in my at my house it's called when the Sun goes down it's dark light switch for your yard L we go on to AB which is the street light ordinance discussion Uh Kevin who's ever running the screen there may be a like a presentation u in the in the file if not we can roll with it just it's really just that exhibit that shows the r examples thank you mayor council um before you tonight is a discussion really related to a potential street light ordinance update um as the as the city continues to grow um we we have more and street lights uh and our existing model really just absorbs that any those cost into the general fund so that's essentially spread through the community um and or paid for by escro by developer escro most of the street lights you still see in the new neighborhoods in the Musa are are still being paid for via the developer escrow we anticipate that coming up in Mass quantity soon th the reason of bringing this forward so we at least have the opportunity to continue the discussion how do do we want to change any of that billing or charging of those expenses the backgrounds in the report if there's any questions we can dig into it but but really what what we're looking for tonight is some sort of Direction and approach to how we want to break out billing if we do want to break out billing any differently as well as some ordinance changes or recommendations on how to implement those ordinance potential ordinance changes related to S bill um we we provided uh some recommendation at staff level um that breaks it into like five categories and how we basically see electrical charges with the city that's outlined in the report what I want to start with focusing on is you know what potential cost might be if we separate them out and how we go separating them out so before you and in the report was the the Rion neighborhood it's one of our first neighborhoods it's I believe it's almost fully built out if not at 99.9% um and so we just really looked at that model some costs that we're seeing today in 2024 there's a footnote we did not apply any admin fees to this or any utility rate increases so just a snapshot of what we're seeing today um and the recommendation that sta staff is having in order to simplify our processes and in order to kind of create a differentiation between what's a lateral streetl and what's maybe a broader trunp street light kind of borrowing the infrastructure terms we use in other in our other Enterprise funds um we have in red here gleon Parkway so that would identify the street lights on gon Parkway that's a trun collector Road we're recommending uh that the trunk collector roads in above and all other miscellaneous are still Hest in the general fund um and then any of the yellow lights or more of the neighborhood lights would fall into more of a a user fund that we would be uh potentially applied to the uh to the users in the Musa who receive utility bills and the differentiat is there's trunk and Trail alignments or there's Trail and Road alignments through the trunk system that's it's more of a a larger use intended to be a larger use there's no residential driveways on that we thought that was a good differentiator as we start to lay that out and again in terms of housekeeping in terms of administration of if we were to go this way that would be a clean you know a clean line delineation line for how we track this data this inventory that we're do and you can see some of the projections on cost what we might see as a user um so it know but uh if we went with the lat the yellow lights been charged to the users B you know $250 you know maybe upwards of $3 a month if there's there's increases intility small administration fee appli maybe I'll pause there and field questions Mr Mar can ask a question yes please so we have this debate in our town there this is a new one but we also have the debate on the dirt roads and assessing them for dust control and like part like I will never have a street light at my house ever um but these streets will also not have dust control I would like to so in my mind I'm like I ain't I'm not I ain't paying for those Street lamps they're not in my neighborhood and they probably in the mind of people who live here they don't need dust control I would like to tie since they're both streets and they have different needs what I would like to do is tie them together and so long as the city pays for dust control the city pays for the main trunk lights and if they ever break that up then both of them have to be Revisited we have lots of different streets with different needs half 80% of our town is R 20 is urban I wouldn't mind tying them together with dust control kind of the maintenance of the roads including dust control maintenance of the lights just so like there's this notion of that we have different street needs and we're all in a together yeah I agree with that perspective I think um I think it makes sense for it to be spread across the city I had a clarification question so the yellow row that has 308 in it is that per like housing unit in that development where do the 308 I think that's just an indication of how that's just a that was just a label from our GIS system those numbers don't mean anything we just tried to express the number street lights oh oh that's a that's a okay sorry so on this map in the rinia neighborhood there's 82 street lights in total between yellow and red and then you times that by $16.40 is is the average cost we're seing per light in 2024 with with just today flat electrical cost and then so you multiply those two and divide it by 43 seven residences that's you get to 308 it's and we think this scales up because our our our policy is very this is very we follow we follow the same Pro policy from rinia to Bass Lake to Mi to py it's the same layout spacing strategy and then due to our our wetlands and our layouts a lot of these neighborhoods end up being very similar so I'm not we're not guaranteeing that that's the rate we would evaluate it further if we wanted to spend the time energy to separate this out if the council wants to just roll it into the general it'll it that's our current policy today so it's just no action that's easy but we had a previous conversation a year ago last fall when we thought we'd be absorbing more and and there was some interest in potentially considering this methodology so if we if we go down the route where we do separate it out this is the dation staff would recommend so if if if the council supports spreading it like similarly to the dust control or it's spread across the whole city then we don't this no action but I want them officially tied yeah I'd like a way to to recognize that and then have you know keep this work in hand that in case we ever decided or a future Council ever decided to change how we're doing dust control back to how we used to do it that then we could have this work to go back to to say okay this sounds like a paragraph and AET maintenance policy something like that maybe to bring back some way to tie that I'd have to check with the attorney you know if we could tie those together other than it could be through a policy yeah it's probably an easy way to but I'd have to you know I could verify options and we could bring that back that's the direction given to us but the most important one is if we did want to change in the billing model we would need to gear up for that and Implement and you know convert that by your end if we don't it doesn't sound like we're going there then I think it's the pr press off and we can just have that conversation follow for your direction I would rather see us focus our energy on energy P sorry uh focus our energy on reducing the overall cost of the system and I've mentioned before it appears there could be some cost advantages to going with the solar model versus right hand's preferred model of giving us street lights for free and then charging us 20 bucks a month for Life uh to maintain it and I feel like that's worth some investigation on staff's part to determine if that's something that as we build out more and more of the city these costs will escalate at a linear or maybe higher than linear rate so what we bu we buy the light not necessarily is there is there a way is there a way to build it into uh the Pud process or have ordinance requirements around developer buys the lighting right just to clarify how it happens now just right hand pin and Excel provide two options for street lights and one is like a like more of a sidewalk light and one's more of an intersection light so both they're each of them and they're fairly similar looking uh that's all we get that's all we that's all the options are unless we wanted to purchase them ourselves which is what we did for City Center so and that cost you remember what that cost was so if it's there's no cost other than electricity for the ones we can choose what style carriage or overhead uh but and we can tell them where to put them but we just pay electricity they repair they replace the bulbs they repair it if if there's damage they they stock the supplies that's all on the providers and it's similar for EXL any this this cost to the 1640 per light is I have led yard light and it's about $27 on an LED yard light my property a month so I mean these are all LED everything is this and that's the cost of the light there might be some early ones in Rania that weren't but I think they when they burn out they switch to that okay um but then getting back to if we were to change that at least if we didn't go and try to negotiate with the providers um which would probably a long haul effort and you know we could you guys could give that direction but assuming operated under today's model like the city center lights we wanted something different so we had to pay for that we have to stock those lights if the lights are out we have to replace them or hire some to replace them so we basically we're we're we're purchasing we're maintaining and we're paying for electricity so that's the op that's the distinction so if we can't get the providers to Pivot and do something different um we're kind of stuck with that and when I came to the city seven years ago there were more options for street lights and and both providers have shrunk that U you know five plus years ago so you know barring it's going to be a lot in my opinion it's be a longer effort to to change from that system based on what we've seen the last five years doesn't mean we can't start advocating doesn't mean we can't go to other neighboring cities and try to leverage that that are in the district but I think it's a long way and I don't want set expectations understand with um City Center Drive we talked about because the city selected a certain model for its portion of the road we could drive anybody else in that same district to have to use the same thing at their own cost is there a similar mechanism available to us for other parts of the city beyond the downtown I think we'd have to adopt something some like design guidelines sep something like that evate that option but it's the design guidelines it's still it's the type of you know Street skate that we're requiring that allows us to do that so we can do that at least on the initial we would still be once we accept the street then the replacement for that would fall on us but anything to build it out would be able to be eligible in the development package and those cost until we fully accept the street so it's like it's a split difference there but we would still ultimately take on that rep ultimate replacement responsibility can I can I can I add something like if you if you ever look at Jeremy's solar uh as an option I also would like to consider uh fiberglass poles cities are moving to fiberglass and away from steel they never have to be painted or maintenance is way lower but if we ever revamp the system we should be open to new materials so long as we're looking at the actual light structure we should be open to looking at other things zero maintenance yeah because those those Rusty poles start to look you just lot more pain on it yeah one thing I'd like to add is if we're ever looking at broader changes to the lighting system itself is I talked to you a little about this Kevin about the dark skies and as well um and I don't I still need to do more research into exactly what that Association or that group policies are oh do you have some yeah iting sweet so yeah so I think it would Al that is a different part of our code um so that' be our performance standards right now we require a 90 degree cut off so we're about right here um I believe a lot of the street lights are probably in between here so not quite this and then arguably that isn't best practice anymore for Dark Skies best practice would involve like timers and motion sensors that would be ideal um so but again we're talking about investing in lights that are not currently offered by the utility companies so um I think it's a larger discussion and it would also be discussion that we would need Public Safety on board with as well so yeah definitely a future discussion one of pointed out I've had number of residents reach out and uh talk about those type of issues and some specifically uh brought up brought Dark Skies to my attention and that started looking into it a little bit so just wanted to raise that now for a potential future yeah if you City Slickers ever want to come and see the stars you can come to me in house I'll turn my yard lights off sound good you can enjoy the Northern Lights everything all kinds of stuff going on how do we bring that to the Eastern mile yeah here you go change your lightting calls all right so we don't need to do anything on that so the direction direction is to keep it as is um and look speak to the City attorney and Jay or whoever to see if there's a way to tie in the the dust control policy with this and if we were to change one we'd have to change the other okay thank you thank you for the work guys all right then we have staff reports anything specification okay and then uh added mayor council reports I don't have anything too pressing right now I can't remember who I have something joh yes for it all you so they on the uh met Council land use advisory committee they need an elected official from our area to be on it I've served for six years now I and we can make impactful differences it's the only voice of the Met Council where they have elected officials um and they hear us but like just barely but we need a voice and I am not running this fall and I will be done January 4th and so for one of you four or whoever ends up winning um we need someone to take my spot sounds good thanks for letting us know do you know how often they yeah once a quarter once a quarter yeah we have done some you know like the for example the policy huh specific dat yeah it's third it's like the third Thursday of every third month it's a very specific day I don't know what um and you're through January through December I guess with your with yeah and I don't know yeah okay yeah if someone wanted to be on it now they could just I'd be open to it yeah I might have to look at my calendar on the you got but I can't believe I got the job you got an interview for it I can't believe you got I know is customer friendly you are with hen oh yeah no that's yeah so you gotta say it's there's a process to it um if I can get it anyone here can get it um but like we have done some work on density we we've done some work on expectations because it's like an echo chamber in there and they hear like Minneapolis and St Paul L loud and clear but they don't hear from anyone outside that in very interior Beltway and sometimes you say things and they're like oh we never thought oh we never thought of that yeah I know that's the problem yeah that's why I'm here so we need uh we need people from out here to have a voice at a governing unit that is unelected has a huge budget and pushes around smaller governments like CES yeah well I appreciate you doing that for so long and uh appreciate you bringing it up and maybe Lea if you can make a note for Jay uh yeah they asked me discuss it find a person him and I can discuss it in the next meeting or next time and then we can bring it back to a future meeting perfect thank you know you're welcome all righty and with that I have something last time I had draw at Kevin about uh following up on the cleanup and closing out those four phases in rinia specifically around the trails getting those wrapped up and I think we were hoping to get updates from the developer on their progress do they have anything that they've shared with us I have any update for those that don't know R is out the last 10 days and offer family trip so I will on Monday connect he's gonna have one of those big uh like when you get back from a big fun vacation and then it's like oh my God there's so much to catch up On's gonna have a after vacation crash coming I've seen correspondences of them trying to get work done but I don't have a specific sched on the trails so I know that's important thank you anything else happy to be a thorn and whoever sign make a motion to I will second that motion Nicholls all those in favor say I