all right we'll call to order of the cork parks and trails commission September 19th 2024 meeting start with a roll call Christenson here Fredick here Anderson here bber here Schmidt here nio here ster here excellent so I'll invite everyone to stand for pledge of allegiance pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all all right so agenda approval any questions changes on the agenda I would like to apologize quick uh I put the liaison calendar on there moot point I was on bpn I saved it like three times and apparently it still didn't save so I took that out I updated it on the website and I also included on the dis um the presentation for tonight and I have included that in the packet online as well and in the book so apologies it will not be on October I've since take taken it off October there is no reason it should make another appearance I apologize for the so we don't have to go to this then no no might be exciting you're encouraged to go to watch them all yeah yeah great so can we approve it as is or do we need to approve it as amended if you'd like you can approve it without the yeah I mean I updated the agenda so it should be fine but uh okay I'll make a motion to approve the agenda without the lead on calendar second Anderson all those in favor say I all those opposed none okay good meeting minutes from August 15 any questions or comments or [Applause] [Applause] Corrections move to accept minutes and a second second all right although in favor of approving the minutes say I I I I all those opposed okay did anyone abstain we weren't here okay well look at me well I'm just making sure for minutes yeah all right open Forum public comment opportunity uh there is no one in the audience and we cannot take virtual comment therefore we'll move on yes great no presentations on to unfinished business City Park remaster as mentioned on the Das included in the packet online and included in the packet located at the front of the room uh is this presentation I will hand it over to Gabby to kind of give an overview there was a request before the meeting started to kind of give a a little bit of background on the conversation that happened with the building last meeting so we'll touch on that a little bit but I will hand it off to Gabby have all right thank you would you like to do that first or when we're talking I think we'll do it when we talk about the building that way we'll kind of everyone will fill in I assume okay so for the based on the meeting last month there are a lot of slides that are similar that we've made minor updates based on the C conversation we had a month ago so there are a lot of little updates here and there but you'll see some similar content so we'll go over update on the project schedule where we're at in the design process uh we'll spend most of the time going through the updated site plan and we have several renderings 3D renderings showing what the concept looks like right now we have a proposal for public engagement for you to consider then we'll go through the cost estimate and discuss priorities we'd like to get input on priorities tonight that we can uh move forward to the city council in October and then we we are requesting a motion to move forward with the design process and then we can talk about next steps so this is a recap again of what we have done so far in the master planning process so we started uh last fall late last fall winter by looking at some of the background information previous design work we visited the site a few times uh City staff and Landscape Architects at HGI conducted site analysis exercises came up with several different concepts and presented draft Concepts in the spring and then over the past few months we've been refining the preferred concept so um based on the design process beginning with site analysis project programming and concept planning that's really um what we call a master plan developing a master plan we are in the schematic design phase we're at the end of the schematic design we've already actually started getting into design development depending on how you def it exactly but we've started refining some of the details that would be part of the design development phase so we've been talking to the vendors for the play and the splash pad and getting more detail on how those would fit in so tonight we are asking for your recommendation and approval to move forward with the remainder of the design process so that we continue to construction documentation bid the project in the spring and hopefully construct next year so this is a little more detail on the schedule in terms of dates so that blue row that's highlighted that's tonight we're presenting the schematic design the cost estimate talking a little bit about project delivery in terms of bidding it uh we've talked about either bidding it all as one project or bidding the building as one project and then the site workor as another project which might work better in terms of Contracting and then um also tonight we're seeking approval to move forward towards design development and construction documents and then we plan to go to the city council meeting on October 10th with a similar presentation to this based on whatever comments or recommendations you have tonight so looking forward to the dark blue tasks that's what I referred to in the previous slide with the design development um we'll come back to this group again to review some of the refined Design Elements we're going to be continuously uh updating the cost estimate we're working with stantech to refine those numbers especially in terms of the utilities the paving uh and the other details that they can provide um more input on uh so we'll review 60% design 90% design we'll go back to the city council with approval to bid hopefully in March early spring bid opening in the late spring and then construction during the summer and fall so this was the concept that was presented a month ago in August and then this is the current site plan so if you look between the two of them you can see where we've made a few minor updates mainly to the parking lot playground pickle ball areas the building layout H footprint has changed slightly and a lot of that had to do with cost so when we initially started looking at what was all desired in the building The Architects came up with a concept plan and then we asked how much did this cost and out it was much higher than we were budgeting for so we refined uh condensed the building a little bit to try and get closer to the cost that we were looking for so the updates listed on the right included include that we added a second set of pickle ball courts six more courts to the South so we are showing those in red dash line as potential next phase construction uh we also are exploring courts uh we talked last time about put those courts be to the West so that they're one long linear set of quarts and then that makes the triangle area know if I can use my mouse here this triangle area would be a more contiguous storm water U ponding area so we could look at that um as we move forward with the design where we're going to hold that space and then as part of the construction next year we could rough grade for wherever those pickle B quarts may go uh we made a couple adjustments to the soccer fields due to the Wetland boundaries so this Wetland delineation that comes down here needs a 25 ft buffer so we're not showing soccer fields overlapping that Wetland area uh we modified the playground layout a bit just looking a little closer at the grades and the pathways and then incorporating some more equipment than we were showing last month uh We've also modified the building slightly to be a little bit smaller to meet that budget and modified some of the interial Interior Trails layout the parking lot size has gotten smaller so last time we were showing over 300 stalls now we're showing about 240 but there is an option to change this again with um some more spots in the center and then we're showing overflow parking for this area so this could be future paved parking if it is needed after the first construction phase and then we also added a couple areas of storage so in the pin wheel here we were showing a new storage building and then near the splash pad we're showing the Mechanicals for the splash pad outside the main building because uh in talking with the vendors we hear we heard that those really need to be very close to the splash pad and they need to be at the same level so since we're showing the splash pad lower than the building we have a separate structure and then that could also have some additional storage does this change any of the phase plannings like before you had phase two being tennis courts Regional Trail Amphitheater this none of that has changed no we're still identifying that yeah tennis and Amphitheater is phase two yep uh so next we'll focus in on the parking lot a little more so this is the new layout for the parking lot if you remember from last month we had a bump out here which had more spots and then we also showed this entire area full of parking so in conversations with the civil engineers um the recommendation was to reduce the amount of ping to help reduce the overall cost and then identify that this could be overflow parking when needed and then if it's used frequently then it could be paved in a later phase also these areas right here in the yellow box that's where we could add approximately 30 more stalls 25 to 30 more stalls and then get rid of this additional drive lane so it's not really necessary we'll still show this paved trail connection which would allow pickle ball and soccer users to get to the building and access the restrooms do you want comments now or do you want to get through most of this first yeah I think that's okay if you have in I think if we want to go amenity by amenity that might be EAS yeah okay so on the paring lot yep my only thought is we have the Overflow of parking which is Green Space which is great but why wouldn't we take the northern parking lot and shift it down to this where the Overflow parking is now and make number four overflow parking I think that gives us more options in the future to say oh we want more park or we want more parking and then now you're not walking through the parking lot to get to the amenities and then it also keeps it aesthetically you're not looking at a field of parking you get through the parking and then you're in the park that seems like it'd be easy to do [Music] mhm I'm with you I think there might be more parking spaces in that area above on the FL fit in we could look at the number we can look at that option we still have the lay out from the Overflow area that we can lay in and count the parking and then take off the Northern Area and see what that looks like or you could just do a little sliver of it to accommodate hover spots we think we need I will say that I think it is nice to have that space though as close it is to that to our um our buildings cuz that's number nine right mm I think I think that there's some value to having some green space next to that space CU if people are inside muling around maybe they need some space I could see families I mean when I saw this this diagram it just made me think of like well go you could have a picnic out there I mean you're still far enough away from the parking lot but you're close in proximity to those buildings whatever that building's going to be just I don't know as you wouldn't be too far away even if the space North yeah I get what you're saying though yep it just it's nice when you pull in the way it kind of is you still see the green right you do yeah versus just a whole parking lot so it's sort of a nice balance I think between the two but I see your point in making that more park space too yeah maybe we could keep it aesthetic by having some more of those tree Islands mm right yeah just Island yeah cuz there's something you said for it looking like a park as you drive in and not just a parking lot yeah like this yeah VI that looks kind of nice and we could actually even put a couple picnic tables in there yeah yeah I could see families saying get kids out kids wait at wait wait at the pick tables we'll pick we'll pick you up in a minute I will say this I would from a staff level have a lot of hesitation putting picnic tables in spot 10 just because there's going to be cars on every single side of that grassy yeah okay oh all right so you could get more use that's yeah we were brainstorming options we said it could be a temporary art display or um programming if nothing else I just hope people don't leave their children in that grass area by themselves but if the parking is in 10 and it's green up by number four that now you're right by the splash pad and everything and you could have picnic tables there which might make go sit down and have a lunch and play more well and it it it I mean like how big is that space like how many right because if it's just a smaller space then that would change the way that it would be used if it's a bigger space though I could see people just like if there's fireworks here people could actually hang out in this area or the other area whether the parking I mean wherever it goes which then maybe it would make sense to have it or four is I think we can look at uh grading the entire area so if we take off area 4 and make it Green Space we could at least grade it to be a level uh open space area and then work with the Civil to determine what the cost difference is and how it impacts storm water and overall um you know curb and gutter and all the other facilities that would need to be implemented but it sounds like consensus is to move it towards four make four the grassy area if possible and then yeah if there's still enough parking spots for the estimated demand yeah I think what you might run into then too is you're going to have to extend that trail above the parking lot that comes down or do you make it end of that grassy right y yeah today it would it comes all the way South so we follow that existing path do we feel confident in the paring that I'm good I think it' be nice to see it as an option yeah yeah U so another couple items to point out the Regional Trail access we were showing right here we're showing this section as a potential later segment thinking that if the Regional Trail is constructed next year we'd start it right here and then this would be a later phase depending on where the crossing of County Road 50 lands it the discuss well it doesn't really have to do with parking lot but uh for the Three Rivers Diamond Lake Regional Trail there was discussion um about having the trail head location where the current warming house is off of County Road 50 um with that not being part of the first phase because the warming house and the ice rinks and everything would have to move easterly this is why that connection would be there for now so it would be a temporary longer term access but then would be adjusted and that's that bottom Trail does that make sense or did I make it more confusing no but when when does the three Rivers plan on having their part of it done so that's part of the discussion um included in the packet we're we're looking for priorities alternates and then later phase projects so we're kind of giving that to you guys to decide uh and then let us know but it's a million dollars approximately to construct that Three Rivers Trail um with that we would have to front the cash front load it and then we get reimbursed as part of the agreement so the issue there is that might mean that you might have to give up a certain amenity or however much to accommodate but if that's in the later phase fine when is Three Rivers bringing their part of it up oh from the south yeah that has oh that's a good question we're waiting for development so that's why it could be could a couple years right years or more okay so ours could sit for a while that million just leave it mhm okay can something change potentially that we don't anticipate yeah exactly was expected so these are some renderings showing what the parking lot could look like and I see that we don't have all the vegetation included but this would be a heavy vegetated area right here providing SC Greening from the road to the parking lot um so this is showing from the entry driveway uh this view is showing shown from the west from above the pickle ball courts looking toward the building and then this is shown from the East looking towards the West like and this is shown from the north oh definitely for sure all right any other comments on parking okay so the multi-use fields are the area is currently not a ball field but used for some Athletics today uh but it is not an even terrain so the recommendation is to grade all that to be a Level Playing Field uh so we did since last time we did adjust the field layout so this is showing how five U10 fields and one u8 field could be accommodated in that space we're also showing the cricket pitch as an overlay so there's that little like of wetland that comes in at the northwest side and then the Regional Trail comes around the East and the South and then three down here this would be storm water or the potential future pickleball courts if the desire is to put them uh to the West uh we're also showing this optional storage building in the oh sorry I realized this optional storage building at the west of the pin wheel right here and then this space could also be used for events if that uh is desired to have large open event space so that looks like it's a substantial amount of greeting yes and is it a with they because it's not the Wetland we can do as we want with it so they can cut and fill and okay well you know what if we if we changed that parking lot location you could actually move those fields over a little bit then too yes that's true y it's going to be very it's going to be a nice space when kids aren't playing and yeah the fields could be striped any way of course that FS within the area all right the next uh feature is the pickle ball court so go again shown to the west of the parking lot uh so we are showing six courts we're showing a a concrete Plaza area to the South which could have benches picnic tables and some shade structures so since pickle ball is a very social tournament sport there needs to be space for people to sit in wait for the courts uh we're showing access from the parking lot right here at the west side and then this again we talked about the courts could be here or over here so there's strong opinion from this group tonight we' be interested in hearing it what would be the benefit of putting it over where number three is uh so we talked about storm water so right now we're showing storm water ponding here and storm water ponding over over here and if we have one larger more contiguous space for storm water that could be more efficient in terms of the overall amount of space used for storm water management so it might um depending on if it's desired to have more concrete over here for waiting that could be a challenge because right now we're showing that they would share this center aisle from a from a staff perspective uh I just I think that this might be the better option in my opinion only because I can't imagine having to walk from the parking lot all the way to the West when the last court that's open you think is that last one and then you find out just kidding people just snagged it and are playing on it and now you've walked all that way just to find out that you don't get to play yet and you still have to wait you just get steps in then that's not a big deal that's true and that's a good way to look at I like the fact that you're utilizing the concrete and the benches and everything and you know I don't know how it works do you just wait for pickle ball until a your paddle up on a hook and thenar that's how you claim your spot and next you also get you don't have to go by them as long when you're going down the path all the pickle balls my only I'm just thinking through access to like that all the soccer fields people will probably most likely be walking just north of that number two to get to a lot of those soccer fields not I'm just I don't think that would change any of my layout questions but I think I see a lot of traffic going just north of that as they get to those fields and then like a soccer field that bmps up right to a water storage always isn't fun to play as the soccer ball just goes into the water every time if you did have a nice cage along the whole thing it actually would prevent that problem but that's that's not a that's true yeah they're both if we if we s then three is not Wetland that has no future use besides storm water okay so that's one or the other similar to the soccer fields going right the pickle ball courts would as well right or could as well with the if that spot of the parking is moved well that number four yeah if it switch but kind of wanted it for future though I thought if needed grass it at this point and yeah we don't use all of us we might need more spots oh supposed toer the soccer fields would work the soccer fields you could shift them back y gotta I prefer the more clumped together just as like a functional more efficient yeah I think I do too and then keeps the noise in a smaller area yeah that will spread out that'll be that'll be a problem that we're going to have to address I think is it gets crazy pickall very Noy it's it's the noise it's a lot more a lot less friendly to the ears than like tennis is I was reading an article about it maybe I'll scan it in and share it with you guys okay uh did we just I know we discussed it at some point we made it on already but can we have a couple of those be tennis courts as well like a combo or is it um well tennis court is about the size of Four Courts so okay yeah that could be an alternate we could do an alternate layout to make the one at the End Tennis if we want to build all of this in the first phase and then not build the courts tennis courts up them we could always build them up above two but you know this yeah then we don't have to wait for phase two if some people really like tenis and then we can reduce some concrete too that's something yeah you brought up uh input from the public that would be one area I'd be curious about is that balance of tennis versus there are people that still play tennis so the mayor yep so is the vision then to leave eight of them and then add in tennis and the last four I'd say multi-use for the last four so it's stripe it both ways were you saying one tennis court would be equivalent to four of the pickle ball so then you're going over the concrete part too yeah can you stripe them both ways without cuz you need a net in the middle of the tennis court but then you need nets for the you can you just have to be removable Nets if you're going to phas it you could just do the right six of these this block and then or the right instead of phasing it top of the bottom you could do the right side then you could decide to do we're going to add a tennis court instead of I would say just in my opinion because I play pickle ball and I also play tennis that it is nice to have a specific court for pickle ball because what happens is is the Nets don't get removed and you end up having to play pickle ball on a tennis net which is not very much fun I mean it's fine and you got to store the Nets too and you got to store the Nets so I think it would almost be better if you were going to do that to maybe either add a tennis court onto the end of the pickle ball courts or something I don't know versus taking up the pickle ball courts yeah the only reason I was thinking of that is so that we wouldn't have to wait for phase two the tennis courts but if Pi a ball is in tennis people don't get along well enough to share you don't but then then maybe just does have to wait for Bas too yeah right or we eliminate so if we well we'd lose four so we'd have one tennis court and then two pickle ball which based some popularity that probably wouldn't be a right popular choice so alternative you take similar to what commissioner urger said you take the top three the bottom three that are closest to the east side you eliminate the six pickle ball courts to the left you stop the um you stop the concrete pathway hangout area after those three courts and then you put One tennis court right next to it um that way you're not dual lining you're not having that competitive why I want to play pickle ball here well this is the only tennis court MH um which I can tell you is definitely something that will happen um but then you're also accommodating both Sports and still getting six tennis or six pickle ball courts and then if you still want to expand West down the road that might still be an option does that kind of incorporate everyone's thoughts or no so six plus a tennis court is what you're saying so the only issue is that that adds in our cost for that in this pH which if we're prioritizing we're trying not to do that I have an opinion and I think other people are going to say something similar about the park and the Pavilion being maybe higher priority so I would almost rather just have the six pickle ball plan for tennis later rather than trying to fit it in but grade the other ones but not put anything in right yeah yeah and then we can decide oh people like tennis a lot more well let's put in tennis yeah so the only change I would make is take the six north and south and that would be the phase one versus the second being the six to the South right so if we if we have an approximate budget for six courts we don't do all the ones at the top we do all the ones on the East right yeah I think that gives you the option as we expand choose to add more or Pi a more tennis more whatever or we add them where 13 is up top yeah and that gives us more green space to the west to utilize too that's next to the Wetland right which is nice Green Space all right okay next uh playground and splash pad so we are showing Trail Loops that surround both that could be used for short loops and then that connect up to uh larger Loops in the Regional Trail we're showing two Hillside slides uh we are reducing the size of the southeast ball field so making that have a shorter Outfield and also a smaller infield and then we will address the proximity of the ball field to the playground with potentially some bming and some trees and other vegetation uh we are recommending recirculation system for The Flash Pad based on last month's meeting so this has um created these this separate structure which we're showing right above to the north of the splash pad previously we uh assuming that the Mechanicals for the splash pad would go in the Pavilion uh some other things that we need to consider as we get into design development is the trail surface so we're looking at uh right now we're showing concrete for the trails around the playground and the splash pad and then concrete All Around The Pavilion and then binous trails around the playground and binus trails through the pin wheel so if there is desire for more binus or more concrete that's something we can talk about if we're building binus that's typically 8ot wide or larger due to the equipment that contractors have to build binous Trails so right now we're showing 6ot trails around the playground and the splash pad binus is a little lower cost in terms of square footage and concrete's a little higher but has you know they trade-offs in terms of the use and the finish so those are just things that we'll need to consider in the future uh so this is a screenshot looking above from the model so showing where some of the port in place would be located to access the equipment and then the Hillside slide right here in the 5 to 12y old equipment two bridges that come from this higher Trail connect to a tower structure and then you can slide down from the tower structure and then this area here is 2 to 5y- Old equipment which has a slide that you can't really see right here from this Trail coming down the Hillside and then this area over here is zip lines and then the the um structure right here where we're showing the splash P Mechanicals about half of it would be storage so talking to staff there's desire for more storage on the site so that could be a garage type structure or other type structure for storage how loud is that equipment is there a reason you'd want it further away from the actual playgrounds uh it's not that loud there are our options we could screen it with um trees or shrubs or Vines as desired but it's pretty common around a lot of Splash to have a separate structure we looked at with staff we looked at several different options in terms of like a pole shed type structure all the way to architecturally Designed structure so there's a wide range of cost difference for what that could look like but we could use vegetation to screen it can I ask a question so is that like concrete path going around all of the playground yes it is and do we need to have all of that well it provides a loop access for like the bridges you come around the bridges and then you want to go down to the zip lines and then it also provides Loops for sometimes parents or Guardians who are there they like to walk in Loops but yeah we could reduce the amount of Trail around here like yeah Wildflower Park has that concrete around the whole thing and it's actually really nice to just walk around or the kids I was just thinking if there's a cost associated with it that would be an area that I would think cuz I mean there's trails around that area that you can walk whereas like Wildflower doesn't really have any more Trails where this would have a trail that looped but I understand that too I just was wondering if that's it seems like that would be a lot to maintain and repair and is it really necessary cuz we have a lot of concrete just the pads like up didn't we talk about that last time too some of the trails we're reduced so this is after the reduction this is after yeah we did have Trails going around here yeah in my opinion I really like the trails around the play area because you can watch your kids and still stay active stay ni R stay inside the yeah yeah what is the surface of the play play area uh engineered wood fiber which is M wood mulch and then the green paths are showing where port in place surf would be so that's providing the Ada access to uh some of the areas that could be that have accessible equipment no compatible compatible compact well it's a small I don't it's not made out of tires anymore but it's made rubberized and it's compacted oh are you talking about place the it's well it's not a solid surface because it's porest to rain Elm Creek preser yeah that's a port in place p in place oh okay so that's what the trails would be so that's what the green Pathways would be so port in place can provide a little more accessibility yes wood fiber is still ADA Compliant but port in place just has a little more density to it you up a little better it's substantially more expensive okay is it more expensive in concrete yes because but concrete Is Not An approved safety no no I just was but of under the playround it is recomended it's recommended but not required that do a concrete skim coat under those areas of port in place to provide it more makes it more rigid which is good yeah thank you so then we have several images of what that equipment looks like so you can see here this upper path has a bridge coming across and there's a bridge through here and then you can come out on the other side so there's a short accessible Loop there we are showing poured and place surface along this Hillside so that is required as a safety surface for the fall zone however we looked at other options could this be vegetation but then it needs to be maintained and it could could you turn into a rock wall that might be a fun like climbing wall yeah we talked about that option and we also talked about the option for adding Some Loops along here so that kids could climb up along the slope there yeah yeah there's like that one that little Creek Park they have little like almost toad still shapes up a wall like that and the kids could climb up there what are these steps over here mhm yes so this area would require steps in order to get down this slope and then this longer path would be 5% or less so that would be 0 so you really can't loop around it I think you can well you can on the the southern the bigger Loop yeah the larger Loop so I don't I can go back so this this larger where in here were the steps around here there's no steps here so you can come across go all the way across so these steps are right in the middle here okay so you could still do the big loop yeah without steps that's right it's just that midle piece that's going in between the two containers that would have the steps and there's no other option that way without the steps to make it just like a pathway we would need more retaining walls so if we tried to grade this out to be 5% we would probably need some more retaining Wells so we'd have to move this access probably farther to the west to accommodate the trail coming down with retaining walls on either side is there a strong desire to not have any steps in that area I just think it's kind of different access you know yeah if you're pushing a stroller and whatnot I hate steps if I'm pushing a stroller but but that's what I was thinking because you know you got the kids playing here but you got the little ones and you try and get over there and now you got stop yeah you know I just you just don't see it much anymore yeah we can look at removing it and see what that does to the access between the two sites so probably just move to the west and this would have retaining all on both sides of it see this design just makes me smile I know is just is really cool but it's really just spectacular I like that view uh so a couple more things about this again it has an agriculture Farm theme this equipment is from playw world uh there's swings over here and then a couple individual items we have uh explored the option and talked to Playworld about tightening up some of those fall zones to see if we can reduce the overall surface and potentially have some cost savings so we are looking into that um oh there are musical instruments too I forgot about that so we're looking at the option to potentially move those just along the path with a little bump out and so that could also tighten up this overall area do you want comments on the equipment too right now or is this just general like be some sort of swings oh yeah do you have comments on what the okay so the swings there's a lot of space around there I get that they're swinging but yeah I don't know shift it back a little bit maybe we could fit it's just a lot of open space for a park it looks like yeah the swings unfortunately have a really large fall so that's pretty much all we can do there yeah and then types of swings you know you could get like a tire all the different other kinds that kids love nowadays yeah so when we talk about the public engagement proposal we thought those could be some of the things that we ask for input on like what equip you like do you like swings slides okay perfect ropes yeah what is the top priority and then like I said um we're looking at potentially so this is the view of the two to five area but we're looking at potentially the zipline being an alternate so we can ask for input on that does the zip line replace like the monkey bars that connect could connect two features that is a good question I'm just wondering like are they too dangerous now could that be zip lines are fun but they always are broken or slow or gummed up I saw Ziplines on there like oh they're always such a good idea but yeah mhm they're a tough one every time we go to a it's like half the time they're not really working mhm well there's two zip lines in our park and they're like the big tube things I mean they're huge push yes you have to push someone yeah you have to push them they don't go enough easy enough to just go y uh so we are right now we're showing some above ground equipment but that is another area where we could ask for input on if there's desire tojust many different surface spray jet so that makes it you know throughout the year when it's not being used as a splash pad then it's just a plaza area that could potentially be used so it could make it more multi-purpose if you're familiar with the Central Park Maple Grove Splash Pad that's just all Jets and they have U many jets and then they can do lighting and things like that so there's lots of options for what we could include in here with recirculation in terms of the above ground features and then also the spray jets are there other options for the zip lines for that space um like well we could add more equipment or we could just take it out as a you know to reduce cost because they just replace those in um was it Baker or was it oh not Baker Rebecca they just replaced they used to have big long zip lines and those are gone now well that was Baker park Baker park I was working on that project when they did that yeah and unfortunately that was a really cool zipline and all the engagement said don't get rid of that zipline but then they had do to get more you know safe equipment that was one that always worked yeah it's for bigger kids too not little kids I feel like I'm hearing mixed things about zip lines do we like zip lines are we feeling no zip lines see where's the zip line okay here's some zipin I say no to those zip lines I feel like they're fun when they're part of a a bigger set and it's like I go from this to this and it's a shorter zip line yeah you do are you you C up to it need to be in the middle of the el el Creek has something similar it's like off to the side Al Creek used to have those really really baby zip lines that were really fun back in the day but yeah I don't know if they build those anymore so this is one area we could ask for public input or we could just list it as an alternate or take it out I like the idea of a third area which is something else yeah wonder if zip lines the best thing or yeah there's also potentially nature play we're not showing any folders or stumps or you know some of those more natural elements that could be incorporated if designed I feel like the other two kind of coincide with what the design theme is with like the farm theme and this doesn't really to me it doesn't really capture that unless there's a way we can make it more into like a farm like I don't know you come flying out of a right that's what I think about across to get to the chicken coop yeah sounds yeah I like that do this chicken you could be a chicken crossing the road oh there you go and the splash pad I I would be an advocate of just making it a splash pad I wouldn't think we would need a secondary use for it so like whenever we were wanted to put there for that equipment would be my recommendation we have a lot of other space to have us mhm what we need it to be I know it cost more but the equipment thing would be great if it was a bar or a shed or something versus a oh yeah big concrete box I know you can no that's not exactly don't like the big white we could just buy something from Manar right yeah yeah exactly kind of Quirk and look yeah we get it red and greenity box the big Ste one yeah there are many options for that you could make it match the Pavilion like a mini Pavilion or make it simple structure I really like that yeah this lay what you see here too these three areas it's that's why I think we could do something better than do than doing zip zip lines yeah it does seem off on the side like kids are going to run over there try it and be like what am I do get back and play with all the other kids that more destination place keep that area but look at different equipment that's what I would say I like I love the layout I think it's really cool and then just I just think about kids running from one section to another and I just think that that area is not going to get used because I know the zip ties in on our current Park never got used when my kids were little but maybe because they didn't work I don't [Laughter] know I'm assuming all poured in place is pretty much out of the question or cost is not that we're supposed to think about 20 to 25 per square foot and the wood fiber is about3 to4 a square foot and if it's Farm theme the wood is probably helps us in like that's true yeah the w kind of brings in that you do need to replace it every few years so whereas the port in place should last 20 years uh were there any comments on the the Limestone seat walls retaining walls that are shown around the edges I like that a lot it kind of big place I agree y if there's any local rock or boulder source anyone knows about that would be a cost savings as well there's a boulder source in the back corner oh City Hall here it's true uh all right so this is looking from the building towards the playground you can see the playground in the background and see how the star shelter is off to the the far right for context and then this is showing looking at down at the t-ball fields from the back the building so now we'll get into the park pavilion building so again we went through several iterations of the floor plan so tonight we're really looking for feedback on does this layout meet the needs we did shrink it from the previous Concept in order to meet the cost estimate of approximately 3 million uh for the overall structure so we're looking at a main large main Gathering area for approximately 100 people and then there is a line in the middle of the building in the middle of that room showing where it could be split into two separate smaller rooms there's the outdoor patio which is on the back we had initially showed a connected outdoor covered uh area but now we're showing it as a separate area so it would be um you'd have to walk outside for a little bit before you get into that patio and then we've talked about potentially the overhead shelter could be an alternate item we could just build the patio with the picnic tables and then potentially later add on the covered shelter uh this building shows a catering kitchen so this is a pretty large area at the back of the building so that would not be for cooking but it would have fridges and sinks and bring food in to distribute it throughout the main Gathering area or outdoors and then there's storage for the kitchen on the left side here there's also storage for the main Gathering space so tables and chairs and other items needed uh for programming and then there's a large mechanical storage space in this corner here so that would be potentially the building systems and then more space for additional tables chairs and other items as necessary there are two restrooms so these are single occupancy gender neutral restrooms from the interior with some water fountains on this wall here and then two uh restrooms accessible from the outside and one of them includes the adult uh changing table which is required as part of code and AD accessibility so the entrance to the building is through a vesu there's double doors and then there's two separate doors so if this main Gathering area is split into two rooms you could enter into one room here and then enter into the other room here so that makes it uh a little more easy to separate um B compared to the previous uh floor plan that we had so overall this is about 3500 Square ft and it'll be heated yes by what source I'd say traditional Source we didn't we haven't gotten into the Mechanicals yet okay didn't we want a double door between the mechanical and the main Gathering I think we do yes but in looking at this if the tables and chairs areed to go in there okay okay the other question without the splash pad Mechanicals is that too much mechanical storage from I don't think so because we've T well we've asked the architect and they haven't defined exactly how much space is needed for the building but um in talking to staff heard that they could always use Marge storage for Reference last week I purchased shelving and um bins and they're sitting in my cube right now and I'm talking five bins two rows of shelving behind my chair in a cube so we already have the solution yeah um can I ask a really quick question can you back up one slide to the park pavilion building slide or haven't we that one so I'm just trying to get a vision for like where the outside ve like the outside covered area is compared to the drawing yep so on this on the right hand side of number nine is that is that graded up is that like a really steep area because it' be nice if you could if we do if you can divide that main Gathering from the other part of the room if you want to flip back to that other screen the one you were just done it' be nice to have something off of that other area so you could actually rent both spaces here's the thing you're not going to split the pav like the outside area if you have two rentals inside only one of them is going to get that outside area there's no way to SPL that's what I'm saying though if we added something to the side on the right if you go back up to that other screen because your to us to dream so I'm just dreaming yeah so there could be another yeah that was when we looked at the U the previous options with a larger building they were showing more of a deck like Portico over here oh sorry over here right yeah so yeah that would involve a little more grading it would have to be either a deck or have larger teaining that might be kind of cool to have it would be almost like an Overlook CU you you'd be up a little higher and then you could have two rooms that you could utilize I mean I know the kitchen would be on the other side but maybe it's a baby shower or I don't know I think I'm confused I think well let's go to some of the visuals so so this right now is shown the back where the structure is on the back over the patio this is showing a little bit of an Overlook with the railing um this was the previous design so this did show a larger area on the East I think that's maybe more of what you're talking about y yeah so there could be some picnic tables out here and that could be a little patio that could be used in conjunction with building so if it had the overhang would that fit what you're looking for yeah I mean like a similar to one where the number eight is on that other drawing similar something similar to that or maybe it's connected I don't know but just something that gives more seating features so two patios versus one I I think so yeah I think it would be two you'd have one off the back I don't know if that's considered the back number eight and then you'd have a little section off of to the east side of number nine I think it kind of if you go back in the pictures um one more that that next one cuz that's what's there now yeah so like that whole grassy side that Co grassy area if you had something very similar to that that I don't know what to call it that Arboretum or no what is that like a a covered sea area off of that other side of the building too cuz that just provides more seating if that other room would be rented cuz there was a door on the back side based on this concept building well is there is like an you kind of see an overhang there corner but you thinking something bigger yeah I'm talking like a little bit bigger like with like where you could put picnic tables and that looks and even if it was detached like the one on the back of the build building yeah so just take this and put it over here yeah another one if the room is split though how many can fit in each 50 are you doing a 75 25 split so maybe it's 60 40 I know so the what what I looking at seeing the East wall that would be could well be mostly Windows hope so yeah yeah we haven't gotten into a lot of the details actually this model we just got today so so well okay where where I go where I'm going with that then is that the part over it seems that we should have that just flipped around but the big rooms should be on the left CU they over look the playground right and the all the Mechanicals and the catering kitchen should be on the right which which mean putting the main over that way pardon putting this on the other side yeah that kind of screws up the bathrooms yep well yes but you you switch I mean you really you really do just flip the whole thing over I see what you're saying then then the big window would Overlook the playground right now the big Windows Overlook the Bas the kids baseball soccer fields baseball fields y yeah so the restrooms right here provide Direct access to the okay yeah yeah so that was the reasoning for that and then we thought if the building is being used for other programming yep that doesn't want to be impacted by the playground and splash pad users that's why we and then the playground still gets the get the outside yeah the outside yeah if there's a birthday party or something that could be in the outside area and another event could be taken place inside the building could you put it in the middle of the building then make the main area in the middle I think you want all the windows question okay we've got the two bathrooms for the splash pads M so now it's winter and firearm safety is going to be in here I know we've got the family with the adult changing is there any way to have a door so there's a third bathroom if you've got 75 to 100 people in there yeah that's a good question we could ask about a potential door right here that could be lock don't maybe but because of that would be a surprise that's a good question through the kitchen I just that way there's three bathrooms for quite a few people you know cuz say like firearm safety the kids are there okay it's break time they run into the back you know you got a whole bunch and they got 10 minutes you know kind like in between classes so explore interior access cuz yeah cuz the other doors could be locked permanently you know for it's winter MH and then another door there so that there's three bathrooms and maybe it changes a little with the because of the mechanical room or something maybe it's more of a hallway versus walking into the storage room right you'd have more of a hallway versus walking right into the yeah right but why don't we just add on a room for bathrooms and the hallway wouldn't have to go all the way to the end just get right to the bathroom just utilize rest with a bigger building we got smaller stay within the price and this is this is the I mean isn't there an amount so if you've got 100 people gathered there kind of like handicap spots is don't you have to have a required amount of bathroom bath I told this meets code but that question something we wanted those bathrooms next to the splash yep which makes sense yep and let's well they got a grand idea over [Music] there I don't know I my point is is is I love the idea of having the bathrooms close to the Splash Pad but I think if that is the only reason why we're making this building the way that we're making it I don't think that's the right reason I think you should look at aesthetically how it's going to look for from the inside and what you're overlooking with the building like for example the bathrooms are probably going to get used a lot more often than your building will and you're going to have kids that need to change and parents that need kids that have to go to the bathroom real fast so the closer they are I think is going to be your better option from visibility standpoint and I liked the view off the e e size where we had the looks like where it currently faces it's not like we're facing the parking lot or something no no no that's right nobody faces the parking lot that's that's good no but like what I was thinking is if like you have a birthday party do we have another building closer to number seven for just like for birthday for birthday parties because then it would make more sense to have the bigger room on the side where the splash pad is because then you would have the bathrooms by the bigger room along with the party in the bigger room so everything is on that side of the splash pad it might you might not you might not have as big of a room because your bathrooms are going to be behind it and then maybe you can put your mechanical up towards the middle of the building and have more space or something I don't know I think that they're having birthday parties there they're going to have them outside in the summer you know I think that inside Space is going to get used more spring fall and winter was that the right order whatever I skip summer um I just don't want us to build something in the nut and then have it only be used because the bathrooms are right off of the you know what I was saying if if there's if we're saying that we're going to use this for like rentals and things like that and let's make sure that we're positioning it in the right way so there is actually people that want to rent it like if I were a parent I think I would want to have an inside space for kids to do the changing to use the bathrooms for maybe parents who have little babies because you're probably going to have little kids too if you have parents coming with to you know running through the park and I would I would say that i' I'd like to use the outside too but I think it's nice to have an inside Space if you're doing a bir birthday party what if it rains I suppose then you wouldn't be out on the Splash Pad but I think we just have to think a little bit more about that is just my opinion to make sure that we're positioning it the right way the way we want it what makes the most sense if you were going to go rent that space so are you saying the users who would use the splash pad and would want to rent the inside room would want them closer I think it's a pretty big birthday party well that but I think you're going to find that more people would likely use that outside area because kids are going to be wet mhm and so they're probably going to be more congregated in the outdoor area I would also say that you do have a good view over Lions field and the t-all fields from the large room and with that you're not only going to have people who are looking to use it for a splash pad and as someone without kids love kids love splash pads but if I rented the space I don't want to see a bunch of kids well that's okay Ian if I'm getting my wedding in there get married and that's just it let's let's make an assumption for like I don't know pick an event or something sure is that going to be what they want to see like say it's a celebration of life for a small gathering are you going to want to see a bunch of kids running around outside probably not but then like a graduation party or a bridal shower I mean I'm just saying like I think that there is going to be a use for the splash pad is it something where you want to shift the whole building to make it accessible for Splash Pad birthday parties and playground birthday parties is that going to be the most common occurrence right I'm just trying to think of Revenue would like to say something yes only out yes you have to go up and say your name well that depends are you playing council member or are you playing Resident I both play choose our council member you want me to there still yeah please do yes but then you don't have to S your address all right I'll still my address I'm not I'm not too proud Dean Camp 9310 Beck Road you guys are doing a great job but the the gloves are off you guys are throwing everything out there y all kind of said it and I think I think Jessica you said it also um I forget your name Gabrielle Gabrielle gab um we've got that budget okay I think 3 million in stuff that we're trying to do this at so I don't know who said it if it was Gabrielle or just build that building and Michelle your ideas of moving and stuff great I'd love to have a a little box and we just start moving stuff around but that costs more money too but build it to maybe in here's phase one phase two the next thing adding more link twos off the side of it to cover what you're saying we don't know exactly what's going to happen but I I love sitting here and listening I'm glad I came um I I I'll do everything everything I can to be at these going forward because I I want to hear I I we get the information and stuff like that but great job great conversations I uh I need to leave because I got to get up at 4:00 to get to work again in the morning so thank you for the time very much Phil I love it you guys are filling up a whole bunch of papers and all that stuff the zipline I got a heck of a zipline from upstairs my barn down on my machine shed but I told you she said a rope and hey to call an ambulance Judith you you know what I'm talking about it just so much you guys got so much to think about so much to talk to I love the new F and such from where it was before to get it tighten down and stuff but look at phases maybe if that makes any sense this is the start and then how can we add on a room to that side and then one last thing Domino's um came in with their um refrigerator is an outside refrigerator and it's metal and they were talking about doing a v wrap with the design and those kind of things the concrete I assume it's a building related to the water and the filtration and all that stuff if that if that's one of those things where I think go by a building from the or something if we could make that concrete building with coat it with steel and then vinyl wrap it there's some really cool vinyl wraps with designs and stuff like that just sitting here thinking about you know what's coming in front of all of us um as far as dominoes and stuff and trying to make something I hate saying it lipstick on a pig I don't want this to be a pig and I don't want it to be lipstick I want it to be cool and those vinyl wraps last a long long time so cool y'all are doing great I think this is the first time I've seen seven of you sitting up thanks for volunteering thanks for everything you do um I know you guys are still coming to Council meetings appr appreciate it I know Tom has kind of opened it up more for hey let's hear something from Parks you can always throw a finger at me and I'll say hey Tom Parks wants to talk we do with finding commission finding commission still comes so the more involvement the better you got to end sometime I'll be quiet unless you guys got a question for me as a council member I'm I'm here it gives them a break from this and they can still spinning up here but you guys got any questions from the on the council side that I can answer and such I think anything you're thinking about um the the integration of dominoes coming kind of to the corner um a lot there still a lot has to go through but I think that concept is coming to us um next week um there was conversation and such not you don't know that's I might be in the community development but I try um I'm not sure who talked about it it was Planning Commission that talked about it as far as making a pedestrian friendly where they can come from the park and then there's a crosswalk and then they can order their pizzas and maybe at a picnic table stuff like that don't know if we want that integration don't know if we want it that accessible or I don't want to start having kids walking across thorough and car is running through but that that's a long ways away from that think about that as as you develop as you make recommendation for the rest of par might be a little while but uh make it easy for drop off for them they'll be the number one caterer I think for this place a very short period of time it all comes to poition so um a lot of stuff going on in our city your guys' thoughts and ideas on par value by all five of us up there elections are coming up things may change but I'll try not to I'll be open and feel free to call me with your thoughts and ideas and if I'm crazy tell me if I'm not thank you please please we never we'll never keep this place a great place to live if we don't involve all yall and such so appreciate it very much thank you thank you and if anything comes up after the fact we do have council member Nichols on too so he's on the phone oh yeah I was going to B him for not showing up no he he shows up he W now he's unmuted no no I just I love showing up on a whim and stuff on my way home it was a late night for work early morning coming but uh Jeremy's on he's kind of the rep and stuff and I'm still the rep with planning so we want to keep that going I do and uh I love listen to you guys and would would mind individual conversations if you got something to say please thank you appreciate it thank you guys glad just stopped thanks just get off Gabby thank you thank you got a t order filling these guys' thoughts and ideas that's a lot of notes to take huh is always good thank you guys thank you thanks I just day I was at a uh movie in the park this summer with my kids and I ordered a pizza to be delivered to see pretty cool something to think about was great uh to be very clear member Nichols did unmute to try and poke fun but unfortunately I did not have the setting speak can still um now all my witticisms will go unremarked [Applause] okay so there are perod thoughts about the building um again we do have the previous iterations in this presentation uh this was from August 14th so a month ago at our last meeting this is what we were showing so this was a much larger 5,000 foot building with an attached outdoor covered space and so this was around 5 milli was the estimate so that's the reason that we shrunk it down but um looking at it from across the pond we thought it was pretty big looked almost like a Band Shell but it did have that covered Portico area on the east side which we thought was cool and then this was the iteration before that so August 7th this was the iteration which was similar I can't remember exactly what we changed about it I think I think we made it slightly smaller but this had this was the outdoor covered space right here in the floor plan and then this was the indoor space so was larger and the kitchen was accessible to both areas so we've really condensed the space and then we removed some bathrooms we had more the hallway yeah we had more restrooms and we had this exterior hallway so it was really actually two buildings so that was what the why the cost was so high and then these are just some precedent images that we are looking at so if anyone likes or dislikes any of these so just so the people who weren't here last time those previous images we talked about those and I believe the consensus was basically they're too modern they don't have the egg feel they just didn't fit with the rest of the park so that the red one that's what they have right now but I don't think we have to make a decision on the exterior now I think we just have to give our comments on what we like and don't like so if there yeah if anyone really loves this design style let us know if you hate it let us know if there's something in between we can work on that in the next phase but we are trying to finalize the size and the layout of the spaces with minor I think it looks great I think you guys nailed it with the barn feel and it's not it's like a little modern barn and it's not too oldtime Barn I don't know I like it I have to be honest I do not like it I feel it has too much of a pole barn feel that's just my opinion um I kind of like in our in our in our pamphlet that they gave us this top left one that kind of has like like the cornicopia is on top which I think John BBA would agree the Koopas sorry the Koopa on the top he would like those um and it's not a there's no page number it's on the top of where the red one is the page on top of the red one one okay I like that leftand corner one and I like the middle one also on the bottom cuz it looks like you could do something with that as you extended it would be more space for outdoor which one are you just this one that one this one and this one okay those are the two that I that are that are appealing to me they're just and they have more of a barn feel which I do like you know the barn feel the country I guess to me it depends on I mean what's up here you know are we are we heating all that you know yeah it seems like a lot of unless you're putting in floor heat in or something then it kind of doesn't matter which saves a lot too there might be able to add some type of features that make it look more where's the L like a p bar yeah the one in the middle I actually really like that ceiling where you got the exposed beams and all that it makes it look like the inside of a barn I really like that so aesthetically I think it looks a lot better even though we might be heating empty space there's nothing wrong with spending a little money on making it look aesthetically nice right it doesn't have to be 100% efficient it's awesome but I I like the look of the upper left one too I like the wood I like the things on top I like the lower left one the Red Barn traditional Red Barn that's obviously more of a barn than a gathering area but to incorporate that I think use your imagin yeah you really have to expand that a bit but um I think there's some good good things in in the ones on the left and maybe the one the one right in the [Applause] middle yeah and in general I like the detached covering a lot more than that big huge thing that was on the previous ones it just feels a little more less of a statement about the whole area um the the design that you put up with the two peaks would would that have then the uh open space on the inside or is that which no so this uh design matches this okay yes but in the in the in the main room that would have a bolted SE oh yes yeah okay that's cuz I think that we need that that's then it feels like you're in a real space it's not like going to the Medina where you have that great big room with that really low roof that's you sealing really a bad feel um and my issue I on a space like that because I've got old ear ear my wife has earing AIDS is Acoustics so the the sound of the air handling system and the reflectivity of sound reflection of those really hard walls really makes it hard to talk to anybody in a big space like that yeah really really does just it so so spending that would be for me a really good use of City money to make the space so you can actually talk to each other well especially if you want to try and rent it out and you've got a wedding going on or a class y you know that kind of thing agreed yeah as far as the red barn goes I don't I don't mind it it's not my favorite but I like the red the what do they call it up and down siding like the baring siding I guess the vertical yeah the vertical lab whatever the white I really don't like that makes it look like a ski chalet or something but which one the white and then why don't we throw a some sort of Weather Vein on top with something to make it look Morey with the yeah yeah what I like it metal yeah exactly although I mean it's not bad and it matches the layout we have where the other designs they don't fit I feel like it's dated [Applause] with the with the front entrance and how that's like I don't know it's just not appealing to me this one mhm oh I like this one so I did I like can we go back one slide just for a second um is this the splash pad down here yep yep so the access over there would be the bathroom on that end and then mechanical on this end is it just covers it all I guess okay so if there's not an event going on right it's is normal it's summer the bathrooms are open the rest of this will be locked correct okay we who who closes it up at uh I would Envision that we would have automatic locking doors shows what I know I'm in cor metal off mine 900 p.m. checking you need to lock your car please the police would be so sad I'm sorry um okay so there's some automatic type of thing when the park closes or whatever yep similar to like automatic light it would just lock at a certain time okay that was yumy I also don't like those windows in front it makes it look like a garage door a big Square window all for big Windows the window you got to make it wider or something put some Willam neither I mean on that picture kind of looks like a grage does it yeah I think they did a great job of incorporating all of them making them look old new nice entrances this shelter in the back would that have or shade thing is there any slope to it or anything so that like the snow goes off or yeah I think there could be I think this was just a placeholder for what a shelter could look like but yeah it could be peaked and it could match just thinking while you know sitting there in the winter [Music] and so is are we thinking that the playground is going to be all winter All Season or is it going to be mostly when there's better as long as there's no snow I mean can play with coats on what do they do over canl I mean they'll stumble through there but it's not like you go let's go up to the the park okay it's you'll see people out there running around and St a little bit but just when they really Drive something crazy yeah yeah that's fine it's been a song it's hard to do monkey bars and gloves or zipline don't like the metal true so it sounds like there might be mixed feelings on the outside and what it looks like I'm hearing that we like bits and pieces of kind of a variety of a few of them um I like this view of the left one there's parts of it I really do it's a lot closer to what I would like in the one the is a little weird the left half of it left half the right half with a white triangle on top do you like the two separate Peaks so it looks like two separate buildings I do but like you said it needs some little extra features to not make it just when you think of this being here for the next 30 35 years mhm but if we make it look more like a barn it wasn't Timeless right I I I keep so I keep looking at our new logo here right and you can see that barn and it's got the the old fashion angled yeah this way and then this way like I just wonder if keeping true to the new logo um architecturally giving it that the right building right the main building I'm trying to help by giving you the you're talking about the right yeah yeah versus just the triangle PE just yeah and then have that a little better too something making it more a little bit more just not I like the way they did it just not the C burs yeah I mean I think that that would be more expensive doing the yeah that's a bar I like the way they Incorporated all of it so we nailed it as far as uh commissioner ster is concerned yeah I'm sorry I mean there's a few to twe it you know but the layout whole thing I like that the rooms the dividing the rooms the great idea and yeah and if there's any way to make that kind of a third bathroom for winter things I think that's a good idea you know um ask and then maybe we incorporate some sort of uh as part of it'll be discussed later but we're looking at maybe a survey public engagement opportunity maybe that's where we get some more feedback from the community on external Vision I like that the one side has a big enough room to accommodate like for example let's say elections had to be held there for some reason there you go you'd be able to utilize that space for elections pretty easily and the in and the out and if you moved the parking lot that would be even better because then you got parking almost right outside the building for curbside voting know [Applause] y yep and last meeting we did talk about some of the uh events that could take place so elections was one of them firearm safety was one of them we touched on if truck safety seminar could be out there probably too small of a space Jay also mentioned like there's a lot of equipment for Hands-On learning out at Public Works makes a lot of sense right but there are many ways that we can incorporate this building into a city use as well as a rentable space like I I said this last time I'm still getting phone calls for the community room that hasn't existed in four years it's a NE yeah yeah so we like the layout though that's what I'm hearing did they say what they wanted to rent it for uh birthday parties grad parties were the big ones not a lot of weddings okay sorry I think I'm losing my voice you you know what I like about this design too the middle one and I don't know if there's a way to incorporate that into the existing building but like I like that there is some outdoor seating right outside the building like this one there really isn't it's just the building but like this this seems more welcoming to me in that middle one with that space on the outside mhm so like and you're talking about like with the with the barn feel with the angles more maybe having something and maybe maybe not because then it limits our space and that we just that's what we have to go with because that's what we can afford right now what yeah one the other ones had that overhang on the right side too what might yeah we even I think we talked about that last side was having more of a lean to off the side kind of like what the red bar has but that could be open space that we to yeah but like it's a fine line because that one on the right the lower right looks like a storefront to yeah we don't we don't want that for our main building right want it to be like hey this is our cool community room or so almost like a continuation of the roof rather than almost a separate angle that jots out it doesn't look like a porch that looks like a porch to me on the lower right when you said storefront I knew exactly what you were talking yeah so lean twos but more of an extension of a rough rather than a traditional Lan to I guess yeah and maybe if it wasn't red maybe that's what's drawing my attention away from it and I know we're trying to get the barn aesthetic but I think the red here yeah the red on this one if there was more of a neutral color like we did the natural wood I think maybe that would make more and this red looks kind of off there's something wrong about that red yeah maybe that's what it's not bar R it's all the printer you got to share with Williams for that enough on the barn an important part so we'll have more opportunities to look at exterior yeah exactly next decision uh no just quickly touch on the tennis courts in the amphitheater which we are identifying as a later phase implementation we're showing two courts we would need to rebuild the base um for soil Corrections so that it wouldn't have the cracking issues that the previous courts had we're showing the amphitheater which would look towards the pond and then it would be accessible to the existing shelter to provide that uh more slightly more isolated use if that is desired to have events or weddings were talked about over in this area um but would we was the consensus that uh tennis would move towards the pickle ball no I a consensus we were going to make the pickle ball more flexible for second phase but that didn't mean you wouldn't could or may or may not include T so leave this as an alternate and leave the next to the pickle ball also as an alternate for tennis yeah I thought we T said second just second phase totally on the Tenn second pH yeah but we have it in two spots now where it could go y because we can always get rid of 13 and make it something else yeah that's true may as well Mark it as a COR swimming pool okay so show like a later phase situation okay how big is the amphitheater like approximately 200 people accomodating okay I'm just wondering like because there's houses over here and with Lions Park there's been a lot of complaints with a noise and it looks like the amphitheater would amplify out towards the houses or maybe we discussed this already I don't know it's on it's on the side of a hill okay so the so the stage is down at the lowest level okay so that should should not be an issue and it's pointing More Northwest versus okay now to be fair they're is a house that it is pointing directly at right now it is a later phase and so we can reoriented at something yeah okay um yeah so both of those second phase that's okay not an alternate second pH is there really complaints about the ball so I'm still I yeah not having any tennis anywhere still just me well we can so later in here you look ahead it's it's an alternate it's 300 Grand added into our phase one yeah tennis courts are expensive what we're going have to do at the end is prioritize so if we do want tennis that's fine we know the cost right and I think we're supposed to ignore cost or something I'm not sure about that but but again it' be ni One area I would ask if we're going to like a survey that would be one thing I would be interested in is is it worthless to have less pickleball courts to include a tennis court in the first like okay alternate versus second yes okay so uh I feel like Gabby might have mentioned it earlier but the so there's three kind of C categories that we're looking for at this point so priority so like what needs to happen with that first phase and then there's alternate so let's assume it's a perfect world bids come in they're lower than we thought what a wonderful time to be alive what would you sub in now that we might have a little extra money now let's calm down that's not going to happen not to be the wet blanket here but then you're going to have your later phase projects so the amphitheater it sounds like no one is really pushing for that one that's probably a later phase whereas tennis maybe that gets shown more as an alternate but not a has to happen this this go around I will say we've done previous engagement it's more recent that we've had a couple of people come in with interest in tennis I will also say those tennis courts haven't been usable mhm in a while and I get oneoff requests and inquiries about them um I would say I get more questions about pickle ball by quite a bit but I also think that would come with more complaints about pickle ball quite a bit because of the noise which is why I think it's wise to put it kind of where it's located there's trees along that West Side there's not really a lot of housing in yeah are we thinking like um like like programming I'm just thinking like Recreation programming would we be able to do like tennis lessons then like one or two days a week or pickle ball lessons or something okay pickleball lessons because then just to me then that's more of of a of a good thing to have if we can have tennis courts and and do tennis lessons so we would City I would say that would likely be a contracted service um I don't have a history with tennis I'm not going to be out there teaching tennis but we would have to probably hire out anyways um we don't have the equipment to support that right now either and in the future possibly MH and and Contracting it I don't want to make it seem like that's a bad thing I think it could be really beneficial especially if we can work through a way to get kind of a give and take with that contract but there's room for Revenue potentially I just didn't realize people complain about baseball games and pickle ball and not so much baseball pickle ball is a louder sport I will send you guys the article I got a video too from that article you didn't learn how to coach tennis no no no this was a pickle ball pick ball one I just I just kind of throw it's like pingpong if you listen to ping pong it's like yeah I can't do it but it's like a a popping sound almost and it's but it's louder plastic ball on a wood yeah so it gets really loud and never ends it's really fun one more thing I'll add about alternates is if we decide something is an alternate then we will design it so that takes more of our time to design all of the details the SE the concrete pavement section the fencing the striping we'll design everything and then we'll bid it but we'll list it in the bid as alternate pricing so if it's phase two we won't design it we'll just show it here it's shown on the concept but we haven't really designed it out so that's the difference too okay so if it's an alternate make sure it's something you're still pretty passionate about so to have the the tennis courts be as an alternate and the um Amphitheater being as a leader Fe think yeah it shouldn't cost much to actually because those Courts are there they just need to be no they need to be dug out and redone don't they as well not be there we just so we in at SEO we just bid tennis courts in school a neighborhood Park School n Park we bid them as an alternate item and it had similar issue clay soils you know needed a lot of soil correction and it came back very high and so the city council decided not to do not to build the T but that's that's I mean that there's a choice to City can make it y yeah uh so this slide highlights where that in yellow is the Regional Trail so it's about 3,600 lar feet going around the park and then the red is showing all the interior Trails so this is a mix of pinus and concrete and then we are showing showing where potentially a trail could be located that could provide access over to The Dominoes so we're not designing this trail out but if that is a desire we could include it in the design and that also is a little Creekside Trail y m which is which is kind of cool I think so too it also provides accessibility to the T ball fields MH yeah so what we heard we have or Jess has been hearing is that there is desire for ada8 access to those t-ball Fields cuz right now some grandparents and other Spectators can't get down there easily uh we've heard there's 88 access desired to these Northern Fields because right now this is a crushed gravel and it's really not accessible and then the Ada access to Dominoes we've um talked about I don't know if people know about dominoes yet but once they see it there they'll want to get over there to get some pizza uh unless they're food trucks we hav talked about that you're going bring in food trucks for sports or events uh and then we did hear from Public Works that they had a lot of requests for more storage on the site and then irrigation reskinning um and some other you know just general maintenance options that they wanted included so we're we're identifying those in the cost estimate as alternate items right now ask a question y does the irrigation would that be City water or would that come from like a holding Pond or well we did yeah we talked to the civil engineer about reuse and that does require more infrastructure so it's more expensive to do the ReUse maybe in the long term it would pay off because that um you're not paying for water but up front it would be a higher cost okay okay and then I'm just wondering why wouldn't we make a full circle connection with that yellow Trail this not our Trail it's the diamond like Regional Trail so it does connect if you look um can you go back to the previous one with the Reds oh gotcha I see so it still has the internal connections um the yellow though is specifically Three Rivers okay and so it does require that those two points to kind of line up now again we don't know where that County Road 50 Crossing will be yet so that's why that's still kind of up in the air okay is there a chance that it'll be like a bridge or anything but a across the road like not at grade grade SE yeah we talked about that with three ofers they said they like that idea but there's not a great place for it because this Corridor sits up high and there you know the grade goes down on either side of the road and then there's residential uses on the west side and then potential Redevelopment over here but we have no idea what's going to happen or when so don't really know what could fit our one and the water table is high too with the wetlands in the creek so that also makes challenging and a bridge so Bridge requires a lot of space for going up and coming down and then the underpass would just would need to be in an area where there's not the high water table so both would be challenging I think I'd want to understand more about the irrigation because that can be pretty expensive too just from the water aspect not that I don't think it's necessary but like M maintaining it and if there's a line break do a lot of parks have irrigation I don't know I just if that's going to be one more expense that we have to incorporate in again I guess it's for our priorities yeah it's I mean it's going back and forth right now some of our clients are requesting that we remove irrigation because of those issues so they're just going with you know whatever nature um provides for the grass the park over there now doesn't have any and you still have to cut the grass the only field that does is me field um I will say this has been a much wetter season um so the grass looking very Lush and green uh previous Seasons by the end of soccer looking very dead and sad so it's kind of a hit or miss if it's yeah higher level tournament facilities would definitely put in irrigation so if you're investing a lot fields and you want them to be really nice and have nice Turf all summer long then you should put in irrigation but it is a high expense to so determine what the uses of our Fields would be something that we should look at doing then like if that's what it is and that's what we want then we should put in irrigation because how much is irrigation do we do we have like any idea yeah we can get to the so okay so yeah this some more of what we heard for operations and maintenance is the improvements to the ball fields the storage drivable paths um additional items to keep in mind this is just a list for us to keep in mind as we continue designing uh when we get to construction we want to make sure we're keeping the public aware of what's going on with the park uh provides signage uh road closure and traffic impacts when construction is going on next year uh think about where staging and construction access would be impacts to the sports program next year so Jess has already considered that the brain's already moving on it uh parking impacts so if there's less programming obviously we wouldn't need as much parking uh what is the construction schedule I think that'll be based on when we get this out to bed and what the weather is like in the spring uh identifying the limits of construction so you know trying to keep it as tight as possible to reduce the cost pedestrian and bicycle accessibility so we've heard that there's a desire from the neighborhood to the east I don't remember the Rush Creek Reserve yeah there's a desire for that crosswalk to be finished so that people can walk across and get to the park right now there's a fence on that side of the park so you can't even if you do run across the street you can't access the park very easily uh the Ada access to the t-ball fields and to the ball fields in the pin wheel and then also just thinking about existing and future events and how those would take place on the site uh potential future development around the park and if there's anything else let us know this is a pretty long list um and then we have public engagement and then we have the class this may after that the only one we didn't talk about I brought up last time was any rinsing stations at the splash oh yeah cuz I know especially if it's a recirculating system it's all coronated and had it in the minut and I forgot to follow up I'm sorry thank you for do you think that could be incorporated into that building main yeah maybe find a way to just like create like a shower walk kind of MH well then it's like usable and it's still a buil I don't know um okay so public engagement proposal while we know that you guys have all of the answers um it's important to consider the other residents that might also have some opinions and thoughts um we're suggesting an open house on October 17th that date is the October parks and trails commission meeting uh the proposition is 5:30 to 6:30 similar to to when we did the last engagement and people were able to come in and fill out a survey that time we only got I think one um sorry but ideally we would get the information out there earlier rather than later um and then really try and get people in to talk to us otherwise there would also be an online survey which would be the same the open house is more that face to face that they can ask questions are there any events place this fall that picky back on Bark in the Park just happened like two weeks ago um and someone reached out and said it was me I filled out the survey uh so we would also have the survey online from October 14th to the 27th um getting this information out on hopefully the city newsletter depending on timeline on that uh social media City website Flyers uh the Parker ma email blast and then content and questions would consist of an update on the process and design so a quick overview of how we got to where we are um and what went into the thought process behind some of those designs Park amenity prioritization so kind of taking what you guys deem as the meum for this first phase and letting people rank from there alternate amenity prioritization so here's our altern rank them from there uh splash pad and theme design so figuring out what they want it to look like do you want above ground below ground sprayers um playground equipment prioritization it sounds like we're really leaning into that agricultural farming theme so rather than asking for do theme feedback it sounds like that's been kind of squared away at this point um and then just general feedback as people see fit um this could also include as earlier discussed maybe some building aesthetic preferences for the outside if that's something you want to incorporate um initial thoughts to any of this additions yeah we just want to make sure that what we ask about is something that we're comfortable with whatever the feedback is and that it is able to be incorporated and that it's helping us make quicker decisions versus making us debate on more things if you're not gonna change it don't include it in the question exactly we did have a lot of discussion on the on the zip line in that space I think that would be something I would be interested in knowing the reaction to that yeah we did have one of those more contemporary marry go rounds but we took it out I I find with my kids I don't really like those cuz they don't the old ones went super fast and you know you could get going and the new ones are really hard to put way too we find an old park and bring in an old one can we do a vintage that be so cool we'll be there monkey bares where you can kill yourself bar wire wrapped around some trees I did see a really good fast one in dor County they had built one it was brand new and it was at grade so the mechanism was underground and they had sort of railings around the edges and I got my kids spinning so fast they got an ocean sick and it was awesome it was awesome was in dor County yeah it was in D County yeah Bailey's Harbor cool car there's something else there sick it was so awesome so it sounds like they do make fast ones if we really wanted that okay good to know are they see sounds like it uh it was contained cuz it was like having a railing like you would see on stairs basically around the circumference with an opening in the center so you could walk in and then you're supported by the railing system and it's at ground level so if you go out you're not falling down like the Gravitron grabon that's the best uh sounds like we are on board with the proposed public engagement y yeah okay maybe that could be the center that type of whatever marry ground where the zip line was yeah like the way you're thinking though it's got the space in case kids go flying until you dry off after this Flash that love that's [Laughter] funny okay so these are um the costs these are still high level at this point uh they're rounded numbers but we have gotten civil input uh so some of the big ticket items you can see the removals the grading and the site prep so grading all those soccer fields almost 800,000 it's pretty big number and also grading for the the parking lot uh the park Pavements parking and trails is about a million dollars sanitary water storm water utilities a little over 600,000 between those two so a lot of just that basic infrastructure not even the recreation features are over a couple million there then the park building Pavilion at around 3 million uh we have some allowances for Sight lighting and electrical the playground is 850,000 the splash pad is 790,000 and that higher cost is due to the recirculation system and those the Mechanicals uh the pickle ball cords at 360,000 with the shade structures identified separately which could potentially be an alternate item 36 ,000 uh the splash pad mechanical building with the expanded storage we're identifying at about 150 that could be higher or lower depending on what that looks like so if it's a really nice customized building that could go up if it's a simple pole shed put a vinyl wrap on that could be a little less Gabby how many pickle ball quart shade structures are there in that 36000 uh then we have an for additional amenities such as picnic tables benches bike racks trash recycling receptacles and signage at about 990,000 uh Landscaping areas trees Boulders mainly around the playground and splash paded building that's about 245,000 we have a turn lane on County Road 50 for the parking entrance which the county is asking for that's 450,000 for that turn it's crazy so these are the elements that we're asking for input if these are all must haves or any of these are potential alternates some of them you you know you have to have one with the other again as we refine this in the next stage of design there could be some cost savings here and there like with the playground if you can um tighten the spacing a little bit that cost could come down potentially uh so we have additional project contingency and mobilization which is a percentage based on this $8.4 million subtotal and then we have design and Engineering fees so that includes what we've already spent so far on design so that's civil engineering landscape architecture and architecture and that's a percentage basis as well so the total estimated cost with the contingency and design engineering is over 11 million uh then the alternate items which we talked about about is some of the Public Works operation and maintenance desired features the open air shelter on the patio behind the building uh the tennis courts field lighting field fencing replacement top dressing the northern fields which was a request from public work staff adding an irrigation so Michelle you had asked about irrigation 250,000 is what we're showing so um based on some recent conversations we've had with irrigation vendors we think that's a pretty good number so that would be irrigating the soccer fields and the pin whe ball field and that would be through City Water right uh that would have to be clarified I would want to clarify I think the splash pad's intention is from City water but I want to double check that before we say yes out right okay and then the amphitheater which I think based on what we talked about that'll be a later phase so would so what are the must haves in this list what are the would like to have which could be the alternate items that we design but then may not be constructed and then what are the items that we could get public engagement on so I think we talked about some of the playground features spash Peg features potential The Bu the building facade we could ask for engagement input do you want us to sorry go ahead no okay real quick do you want us to prioritize the blue items or is this already like yeah well we've so the potential alternate items are what we determine based on how this process has gone so far so if there's a strong feeling from anyone that any of those below the line items come up then let us know but we're looking More For What in the blue could potentially be alternate because again the cost is in plugs based on what the funding availability is but we're we were looking at a 7 to 7.5 million doll number so we need to cut quite a bit um wondering in if anywhere in here is there any in the first phase are there any Trails cuz I feel like the trails are something everyone uses or could use at the park yep the the trails the interior Park trails those ones that were shown in red are included in this $1 million so that includes all the Pavements so the parking and then all pave Trails okay but then the Regional Trail is a separate estimate so this like just said this would be money that the city would have to pay up front and then would get reimbursed by three overs so we did talk to them about budgeting from