go ahead and call the meeting to order start with a roll call mck here lanterman here bota yep Baron Camp here Nichols here perfect L the stand and join me in the pledge to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty justice for all all righty agenda approval uh is there anything from staff I know there's a couple minor changes anything else uh item 7K has been updated mayor other than that no other changes from staff anything from councel um I might add just a very brief um mayor report uh on item 12 on a couple topics that will take what two minutes um other than that I will entertain a motion to approve the agenda as amended second all those in favor say I I I uh commission Representatives we have Lindsay and Jonathan Parks uh planning and parks and trails uh commissioner Lind is on the call I believe commissioner Schmidt as well and then I think commissioner Lind uh intends to be here with about the next 15 minutes in person sounds good and then we will go on to open forum for uh items not on tonight's agenda and Jay can walk us through the rest of that yeah ladies and gentlemen if you have something you'd like to share uh with the council or bring the attention of the community please step up to the microphone uh address the council and uh share anything that is not on this evening's agenda we receive no uh emails no texts no calls then I think we're good um Everybody must be happy with the job we're doing or they're here we'll go with that or they here for one of the first next items um so we'll move on to presentations which we have a few um and we will start off with 6A which is we're have a couple employee long longevity awards that we are recognizing uh yes mayor and Council and ladies and gentlemen joining us this evening uh it's been said once you know that the strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack and uh we are blessed to have a strong pack because we have committed and dedicated employees uh and tonight we get to recognize two of them for their uh longevity their committed service we recognize here in corkran uh in fiveyear increments and so uh first this evening we'd like to invite shaa zuther up Center Stage important there we go thank you and I do have just a couple quick fun facts five years is not as exciting for the uh fun facts because it's not that long ago but 2019 um that was four Prime Ministers ago for the United king Avengers endgame was released in theaters the final and personally I'll say terrible season of Game of Thrones was released uh Queen Elizabeth II was the first or made her first social media post at age 92 uh there was the infamous celebrity College admissions cheating scandal that year and uh the notredam cathedral caught fire in Paris so little little good little bad so one one more Applause just thanking shaa for five years of course and and now if he he can make it up here we'd like to invite Ryan Burns up uh 30 years with so for those of you are wondering what just happened why did she get the big thing and he got the little thing after 3 years so uh employees receive the plaque at their five years and then they they receive in fiveyear increments these uh blue uh rings that go onto the plaque and so Ryan has a bunch of those rings and he's just adding another one and I do have some better facts on this one to make you feel a little old there Ryan um in 1994 which was 30 years ago friends premiered on NBC uh the top TV show was Seinfeld the highest grossing movie was Forest gum uh the World Series was cancelled that year due to the MLB strike uh OJ Simpson was arrested after the infamous white Bronco Chase uh Sony PlayStation was released in Japan and Harry Styles was born on February 1st so and I and I'll be brief I wanted to say a couple words as well and I'll be I'll be real brief but Ryan's been a huge part of our Police Department success for 30 years um and it's been incredible what what he's accomplished during that time so he's been you know a patrol officer Corporal lieutenant and currently serving as a deputy director um he's been contributed to years of service supporting programs like firearm safety truck safety night toight roeo country days so much of what we do and our success is is we owe to Ryan for a lot of his planning and coordination and um just the general way that he does business is one of the things that our Police Department is appreciated for in the community um you know when you look at how the Department's grown from three officers with three full-time officers when Ryan started to now being at 13 with detectives and K9 programs and there's a lot that's happened over the years and you've been a huge part of making all of that successful and your planning and Leadership is a huge part of why we're one of the safest cities in Minnesota so thank you Ryan For All You've done for our Corran community and the police [Applause] department thank you that's all I can say thank you appreciate appreciate it thank you [Music] Ryan since you're a critical part of it if you can hold up a second uh so um the Minnesota Board of Peace officer standards and training is the occupational regulatory agency charged with the vital responsibility of maintaining selection education and Licensing standards for over 400 Minnesota law enfor M agencies that employ over 10,500 peace officers across our state while the post board performs many functions a significant portion of its responsibility is dedicated to conducting compliance reviews of Minnesota law enforcement agencies to ensure they're meeting legislative mandated training and department policies on use of force firearms training emergency vehicle operations and pursuit driving training as well as other mandated departmental policies on July 9th 2024 a postboard standards coordinator conducted a review of the the cork PD after a comprehensive review of the records concerning mandated employee training and department policies our department passed the review with flying colors ensuring all law enforcement agencies around the state are in compliant compliance plays a pivotal role in maintaining the high level of professionalism we enjoy here in corkran and have for many years that professionalism translates into quality law enforcement services for the citizens of corkran and we recognize that professionalism today so thank you want to take it I'll take it well thanks everybody who came for that uh for those who don't want to stay for the other Less Fun events no worries can take a minute to depart but for those who are really excited to stay for the audit discussion you're welcome to stay thank you all very much yeah oh wow name that was almost everyone surprised to see staff a perhaps there you [Music] go didn't expect to see no sounds like he'll only be here another couple weeks before smart guy and gets down to Arizona who Hamilton going back to Arizona Lake oh yeah right on the border well right yes yeah I think so is that be been going to go on forever NOP it's just them going through door because there such a large crowd that it's barking saying too many people time up we'll give it a minute there we go perfect then we will move on to 63 6C excuse me um which is the audit briefing uh from ABDO and we have a representative from ABDO we'll be presenting perfect silence for the presentation room I appreciate you having me at your meeting this evening my name is Justin Nelson I'm a partner at ABDO I've been doing the audit for a number of years the city of corkrin um I'd like to just first by say a quick thank you to you as the council mayor and the administration and staff for having us as your AO firm just to say quick thank you to staff for all their hard work getting the audit completed uh which is could have done it without staff and all their help so we appreciate assistant as well so I don't know who's we got someone doing the slides I'm going to go through just a brief introduction I will go over the audit results and some of the audit findings for 2023 is audit I will then go into some of the results of the general fund other governmental funds the Enterprise funds will'll close with some key performance indicators comparing the city of Corin to others henan County um in um the class 5 which is under 10,000 population so a of results for 2023 we did Issue a clean on modified out opinion which is the opinion of the city is looking for we arrived at that opinion by testing a number of different transactions around pain of bills U looking at Utility Billing transactions taxes grants pay of employees what the council gets to make decisions Etc so we do have a few findings that I will go over on the next slide but first um as part of our audit we are also required to test Minnesota state statutes legal compliance and other um the office of the state auditor does put guides on their website that we are required to test as part part of our audit a couple examples of those items would be timely payment of bills um as well as lack of conflicts of interest with anybody in the city or on the council so happy to report that we don't have any instances of non-compliance that we were U able to cover in our audit for 2023 so we do have five audit findings that I will go over here briefly in the 2023 audit a few of them are carryover from the prior year just due to some of the turnover that the city has experienced kind of in the finance department um as well as some some newer ones um you know recently but have been a part of the city corporate's audit in in PR years so we'll start with the right at the top there and I'll start with material audit adjustment as well as escro tracking I'm going to kind of explain these two together they really are similar issues um some of the the tracking of the escros did lead to some accounting errors or some things that did need to be corrected in some bigger dollar amounts taking things off the balance sheet and moving them to revenues um things of that nature so again um there were just a few of those entries that needed to take place that were were from the closed books of the 2022 audit um and again just escro tracking just in general as part of the process and things that are going on in the city although there's been significant Pro progress in that um again as we look at when things happen when the turnover happened uh just looking at the you know the December uh 31 2023 audit date that we did audit through um some of those issues did still exist and again as part of the the city's response I think that on their way to eliminate any more those can can I can we ask questions or do we wait to the end so you're you're um I just want to clar point of clarification when you say because of turnover I I the the turnover didn't happen until I don't know three four months ago maybe it's October I think well September is when the finance manager went out and then the city administrator left and so the turnover that he's referring to is specifically impacting the finance department uh so um just a point of clarification the things are going Wayward before the turnover correct I think we had I guess I'll answer your question by saying that I believe we had the same finding in the 2022 audit okay cuz turn yeah cuz turnover sometimes is a reason why new stuff don't doesn't get done because you hire someone and you're like oh we got to let you we got to let you know what you do and they takes a little while for them to pick it up but turnover doesn't work retroactively like oh we just uh so you're talking about stuff that happen pre- turnover I would say that uh the way I'd answer that again is by saying that a lot of the finding did relate to things that happened in the past 2022 2023 um but again as we look at just the audit years and the cut off of when those happened I think there's been significant progress towards the end of 2023 um and things are improving U but again as we look at the audit year and just when things did happen I think that we do still de those necessarily for the 2023 a okay and and if I could make one comment it's important to note that we we closed the 2022 audit at the end of January 2024 and so uh that the time the flash debang all of 2023 had already happened before we were able to close the 2022 audit um so okay your question yeah okay all right I will move on to number three which is titled timely bank reconciliations again um I think some of the similar comments I made do apply to this one um you know Bank reconciliations due to some of the issues with potentially the software turnover software conversion as well as turnover I did you think led to to some of the issues with the m insallation timeliness again this is work from the 22 audit as well again similarly related to what the time that those things did happen again significant progress has has and is being made on that uh to ensure those hopefully are timely in the future the next two are uh are are kind of small City findings or small staff findings and again I'll just um I'll go over what they are the lack of segregation of duties um again this one is just a limited number of Staff um touching the number or having the opportunity to touch a number of different transaction Cycles within the finance department again although we do recognize there are compensating controls again there at certain times of the year again with the turnover there was limited number of people doing the number of transactions or those number of Cycles um in the finance department which is why we included that um this year um I believe different from the past years the last one is titled preparation of financial statement which again we didn't the significant efficiency bullet too on the presentation but this one is um again a common finding for a lot of the cities that we do Audi and we do prepare the financial statements as the audit firm we do present that as a risk again we do um you know understand that there's a review of compensating control surrounding that but we do feel again with some of the things that happen throughout the year just overall B process from 2023 audit um things could have been missed um we just recognize that again as part of the Auditors we part of that Control process and the financial statement so again one will'll consider in future years as well as the other ones all right I will move forward into some of the results the general fund fund balances again we do note that the city's fund balance policy is to for maintain a minimum unrestricted fund balance of 35% so we do show again the budget as well as the unassigned fund balance of the general fund again U we do compare a year off or off setting again we do show looking at the reserve percentage as part of the future Year bud so again we do see the city's budget and an orine orange line continuing to go off I can project on that 10 million range for 2024 and looking at that un fun balance line which I think is a pretty solid result again really positive trend um you know from 39 to 42 half% in 2023 I think with all that's happened some of the findings we did communicate I think things are really good shape trending in the right direction in the general f note that there is that bullet where we did transfer some of the money to create a new Fund in 2022 that did kind of dip things down a little bit there as well so if we go uh on to the next slide we'll just look at 2023 year look at the general fund budget to actual so again on the left we see the final budget column the middle column is the actual and again the variances on the right so again as we can see here we do see some some variances within the budget of the 202 through year again starting with the revenues about $1.6 million positive variance in the revenues big reasons for that would be investment income as well as some of the permit Revenue uh the biggest one um related to some of the grant Revenue that was um the recognized order and related to the arpa dollars as well as the public safety money that was received so again positive results in the revenues again expenditures also had a positive result which was actually under close to 470,000 and the Bigg reason for that as we'll see a future side is looking at some of the Public Works maintenance as well as some salaries items as well so the other thing I'll point out is just looking at the transfers again the city did transfer some of those dollars for that arer recognition on the public safety the police salaries to a different fund to be used on Capital uh financing or purchases in future years and again as we see the general fund did have a good year increasing close to 1.5 million so really good year for that all right so these two are uh just two uh bar graphs showing kind of the revenues and expenditures just broken down in different types kind of as I already alluded to a little bit earlier again we look for anything that might be Trends and I think it's just helpful to look at um in a little different way other than numbers again as we as we look at these nothing too significant jumps out on the the revenue side of again I mentioned that under intergovernmental which was a big increase um this year as well as the licenses and permits and other which is the Investments and again as we look at the expenditures as I did say that that Public Works did kind of go down from last year again Public Safety continues to be rising cost for for a lot of communities the CATE all right so the next is a different type of fund again these are special Revenue funds again a little smaller dollar amounts here um the only thing I'll point out here nothing too significant in increase or decrease activity again these resources really aren't restricted and committed for kind of the name of the F the of those set aside funds all right the next would be Capital project funds again we do show the detail of the the number of different capital projects funds U as well as the fund balance designation in the bottom you a ton of activity goes into these funds with pay a bills um tracking of the developers and things of that nature again I think the positive result here again those those funds did increase close to $3 million again uh the biggest in that long range Capital planning fund we a little bit of that the transfers out other thing I'll mention again most of those major Capital project funds are kind of restricted resources either from developers or I think it would be dedication fees so again those are bigger dollar Lo expected to be paid down project costs um the future next would be The Debt Service funds um again I'll just have a point of clarification here as we may have a question later too these are the governmental Debt Service funds non-enterprise related um so these would be mainly supported by tax Cy or other um things of that nature so we do just put this CH together here to show the kind of the final maturity dates of those bonds um you know the assets that do exist currently because the remain interest payments again we show the graph as well again we do point out that there is one of The Debt Service funds that is in deficit does have a deficit cash balance or borrowing from others but we do just continue to recommend I think C's well aware of it to monitor that de service fund um review the resources that either were supposed to be collected or that need to be collected in the future to pay those bonds all right Switching gears a little bit we'll do the two City Enterprise funds I'll explain them real quick and the top one looks at kind of a cash flow from operations you see the operating receipts and connection fees as a comparison to the dispersements and debt payments um again that will be kind of important for the city as it goes forward again um it's not getting as many connection fees are growing as much to ensure those rates and it's it's still important now the chart does kind of support uh the need for future versus today the second chart um does show the overall cash balance um as well as a future minimum Target balance which is um it's kind of a benchmark we've defined as the following Year's Debt Service Plus 50% of operating cost all right so the water fund again we do see we do like to compare the operating receipts and connection fees to those dispers and debt payments again moving forward and currently we would like to see those those left bars exceeding those right bars to to kind of save for future debt payments or future Capital purchases again as we see I think things are are moving in the right direction there obviously there has been a lot of capital activity and just to note that that capital is not reflected in that top chart the second chart again um shows sorry to go back by slide I just want to point out too on this slide that we do look at the overall cash balance with the big bond that was issued again there is a big cash balance at the end of 2023 again a significant portion of that is unspent Bond proceeds or to be used um you on the main construction at the end Year all right you can move to the next slide now we going to the Sewer fund again we see the two main two same charts this one is a little bit more um a little cleaner I suppose again this one a little less Deb U but again as we see a good Trend in the right direction for this company a little as it currently stands in this fund and overall those resources continue to weigh those expenses right so talked about a lot of different funds again I'll just close with a cash and investment uh balance chart what's in the bank uh stay away from fund balances and things again I think um I will just make that caveat this he does have 15 million in unspent proceeds in that right hand col and those Enterprise funds you know taking that away I think still a good Trend in the right direction theity does have resources uh for things that needs uh currently and in the future all right I'll close with some key performance indicators again I mentioned at the top that these are class four cities under 10,000 population as well cities in hanit County again the city of cor would be that black line so the first one is taxes um again two completely different ratios here one is tax rate one is taxes per capita again the rate would be more market value based and again taxes per capita just based on overall number dollar amount of taxes divided by the number of residents so again as we look at the rates I think you know the city corporate does look pretty favorable as compared to those other you know class four cities the population wise again I think really in the S Ball Park as well as the cities County again taxes per capita a little on the higher side specifically with those class four cities but kind of in line with the county again probably not uncommon for a Dr Community next would be the debt again this is two also two separate um ratios we show debt per capita which again just looks at overall debt numbers compared to the residents again on the right hand side we compare Debt Service expenditures just governmental non-enterprise as it compares to the overall total expenditures governmental so a little misleading there one chart Compares um you know Enterprise one does not but as we look at the debt per capita again what the big bond that was issued in 2023 that did significantly increased you that per capita number you know on a per resident basis but again I think some of the overall governmental debt um is still low or um you know Compares really well with other indicat group all right so the last one we do show our current expenditures per capita as well as capital expenditures per capita so again this one kind of just looks at when we look at current expenditures or you know as we just provide City operations per capita basis would that be as well as capital again this one's a little bit um up and down for different cities and as far as the averages as well it does kind of tell a story um here for sure but as we look at the current expenditures per capita again I think things do look pretty well in line I think again as we look at um you not having the numbers for 2022 since the Osa has yet to release them I think things are to continue to go up with those peer groups um and again looking at the capital expenditures obviously the city has a lot going on and a lot of different projects so on a perent basis those expenditures do continue to go up or have they going up our more than other communities in those groups with that I reach end of my presentation is there any other questions any questions nothing we're good thank you thank you thanks thank you very much thank you good Lu for us this year mayor and Council as Justin finishes I also thought saw this as a good opportunity for Vicki who has been providing ABDO financial services for us to just provide a a quick update on her perspective how it relates to the audit as well as uh where we're at with some of our our Benchmark goals that we've had good evening mayor and Council good to see you again Vicky House Ando Financial Solutions and we partner with our team and I've been on site working with your staff January um naturally um based on some of the observations that Justin shared tonight we had three main priorities the last several months which were um working on good processes around Bank reconciliations getting those items caught up and up to date working on reconciliations related to escros how can we improve process and better leverage technology to make those processes easier as we move into the future and then of course prepping for the 2023 Financial audit so as we move forward um I kind of our continued role as more coaching and development and transition of those responsibilities to your team um there's a solid team here that we've been working with really closely over the last few months um and so we'll be working with them to kind of again find tun those processes utilizing technology maybe where we can to kind of take out some of that manual work that we perhaps have been doing in the past and automate things um but have just been really impressed with everybody's ability to lean in and kind of hit all of the uh really aggressive timelines and mile markers you've had along the way um but with that I would answer any questions that you have for me otherwise um it's been a great pleasure working with the team over the last few months and look forward to kind of coaching and transitioning as we move through the second half of the Year questions thank you Vicki if I could yeah uh Council I I just wanted to provide a couple updates uh for the in terms of the finding important things to note that I'm really excited about so for example internal controls um I've been fulfilling a role to ensure that in 2024 uh we maintain our appropriate internal controls uh but yesterday we made an offer to an accountant and I'm soon going to be done with that role and I'm super excited about that uh because we will have enough Personnel within the finance department in order to have those internal controls which we haven't had that capacity uh since September uh so I'm I'm excited about that and then the escro the person who's been helping us from escro actually works remotely from ABDO for ABDO from Arkansas and uh we got to meet her for the first time face to face today uh she she was up for for another ABDO meeting and so we were able to have a um a discussion with her and I'm really excited for where we're at we actually have a really good handle on it um and um we're only a few a few steps and I would say probably a few weeks away from um being able to to be able to do achieve where we wanted to be um and uh lastly in terms of bank reconciliations that's also another thing that I'm going to be able to stop doing uh approving and I'm super excited about that the reason I bring that up is because uh we're where we're at because of your support and so I just wanted to thank you for your support because without your support we wouldn't I I can't imagine where we we'd be we where we're at because because you supported us bringing ABDO in for the necessary Financial Services during this bridging strategy until we could build the team and now we're at a place in which we're getting the pieces in the right place to be able to have a more promising future so thank you for your support and uh 2024 is going to look a lot better thank you for all your hard work on it I know well I want to especially thank Jody uh the finance department and and she's here finance department has been a party of for a while and so I I just want to thank Jody where where is her plaque we'll get there it's it's a longevity uh she hasn't been here long enough to earn one yet but we're going to get there 3 years in two weeks it'll have been three years over halfway there so thank you Justin Vicki thank you all righty on to cons ENT agenda uh which consists of 7 a through 7 Q does anyone want to pull anything I don't remember getting a black in my fth year anniversary on Council I don't think we get them on Council you got to be full P kid I would like to pull 7f and 7 n 7f and 7n okay anyone else say seven n also yep I had that too anyone else okay then I will entertain a motion to approve consent agenda items a through e g through m o through Q so move second all those in favor say I I I okay uh consent agenda item 7f Jeremy I think this one merits some conversation uh I know there was a survey that was conducted to get some feedback from commissions and from Council on the value of the liaison roles in each Direction uh I I felt like this one needs a little bit of debate before we make policy changes and I'd like to invite Jay to speak to maybe some of the feedback that he's gotten as he's reviewed the survey data to give us a starting point so if I could mayor and Council I'd like to split this particular staff report into three sections because there's three distinct sections for us to talk about so the first uh section would be the business hours uh you approved a pilot program uh that we started Memorial Day weekend in which we shifted our hours from 8 to to 5:00 p.m. Monday through Thursday and 800 to noon on Fridays and I was anticipating a significant impact on quality of customer service um we did not see that uh we did see some customers but I didn't see the volume of customers that I thought that we might get uh the reality is Fridays are typic typically very quiet around here and uh while we tried to pull post office hours no one's coming in at 5:00 p.m. hoping to get their City business done uh they're usually coordinating however I would say we've gotten a tremendous benefit from how it's impacted uh staff morale and so it's provided a flexibility and a predictability uh that has been much appreciated uh in terms of the rigor of doing the work of of City work um they they have appreciated that work schedule and consequently uh I request that we have your approval to continue this pilot program and make it permanent so that's the first section uh the second section uh would have to do with can I can I ask a question on the first yes what about Public Works do they have the same schedule or potential movement of schedule or we asked them so I have talked with public works and we do provide uh we we try to have some flexibility with them uh and I'm looking forward to collaborating for greater flexibility uh they have not been operating under the same business hours and part of that is because they're responding to what's happening so an example would be Sturbridge uh they're out there on Sunday clearing trees off the road because of a a crazy storm that we had uh and so they They Don't Really Work business hours uh they come in earlier than we open City Hall and they depart before City Hall closes uh but I I agree with you that they they uh should have flexibility in their schedule um whereas the police department will will not have that same level of flexibility I'm I'm more speaking to the ability in a normal week that at Public Works they obviously whatever happens happens but in a normal week with no issue I feel like that I think they ought to be able to leave at noon on Friday Also or or potentially adjust their schedule if there's not a need come in on Friday yeah something so so that's that's the intention uh and and that's so right now uh there's a lot of employees that are not working on Fridays because they've reached their 40 hours okay uh but we still have to provide customer service hours so we are minimally manned or minimally staffed sure on Fridays uh and and even with that uh if we have a conflict um to deconflict the conflict we would post a sign and say due to to Staffing shortages I mean if we don't have someone to work on it I don't want to pay someone overtime if no customers are actually going to come in that doesn't make a lot of that doesn't make highest and best use of our staff's time or the tax dollars so any any other questions about the there's been conversation and they've they've thought about it there they're talking about it as far as public works and coming back yeah I I met with Public Works last week last Thursday uh and uh do as part of a strategic planning session and and that's just one of of several things that we're talking about that would that would improve their quality of life here at work um any other business questions so so the next one that uh if there are none that I would bring up would be I raised the question of uh thir thday is this the best evening or potentially Tuesdays uh and um got in the survey got some mixed feedback uh but what I think is really critical to note is that we have some Commissions in which our most experienced and important leaders on those commissions cannot make Tuesdays work and so uh for them it would not work and and then uh we have some council members that with other obligations it would not work so my recommendation at this time would be that we table that discussion until such a time as it may make sense uh if if it doesn't work and we we can't have a quorum of our important uh leaders it we probably shouldn't be trying to make it happen so um that that would be my recommendation on that one uh if there's any questions or feedback on that um then lastly as far as liaison um also I received um some mixed feedback in the survey uh some folks and I would note uh particularly those uh who are relatively new in their roles have really appreciated the opportunity through this liaison expectation to gain a better of understanding of how government works uh so um I'm not sure after they've served in that role if they'll have that same feedback but that's their feedback presently uh and then others have raised questions on is this the best and highest use of their time uh and then uh lastly um in terms of feedback uh and particularly for Council Liaisons um is there the potential concern I've gotten some feedback from some folks that uh is is this the I'm trying to be very careful how I articulate this uh concerns about a potential perception that uh a particular individual's perspective shared with a commission might not be the shared perspective of the council uh and so so that was a concern um for both commissions feedback that I received from different people uh so those I I leave that for your discussion uh we there would be an implic if we uh stop liaison because it's presently in two places in code and so we would have to consider adjusting code if we did change that um but I guess the question that I would ask of council uh to discuss is is uh what is the desired outcome of the liaison idea what what do we hope to why do we have liaison and that would be the first question and then two are we getting the outcome that we desire how the asons are presently working so so maybe we should start by just clarifying on the business hour aspect on the change of the meeting date are we on the same page about tabling a potential change of meeting date to a later date if at all and business hours change making that permanent good on those two it permanent as things are yes yeah going forward with it um so then only really discussion left is on the liaison aspect um and we can really open this up to whoever's got ideas on it I've kind of I've kind of went back and forth on this I think to me if we did want to make the change I'd want to make sure that it's still encourage to the Commissioners that if they want to come fantastic and that they still be you know able to step in on a conversation that's about their subject and give feedback or um you know basically be handled the exact same way if they wanted to come if we were to make the change um and and did did show up um certainly not a bad thing if they are interested in doing it um i' personally be most comfortable with making a change like that once we have all of our uh upcoming Tech improvements up such as granicus and laser fish where you can e even easier get access to documents uh minutes agendas the video and just easily kind of scrub through and find the specific talking points so that you can put up in an iPad and double check but that's what the commission talked about on this item um but if Council feels strongly that we should make a change to it beforehand it open to that as well so wa to hear you guys feedback yeah if I could just had if I understand some of your comments correctly the feedback that you're receiving from some of the newer commission members are I've really learned a lot by being a a liaison but our our meetings are open to the public and there're certainly you know they can certainly attend any meeting that they want to voluntarily right I mean so that wouldn't you know if we if we no longer require mandatory attendance um they can still show up if they want and still learn right okay absolutely and I would almost say if if we do make a change that maybe we find and maybe it's just an informal way of if we know in a month we're going to have a very complex this is just hypothetical very complex planning thing or a big decision on City Park coming in if we know a decent amount of time in advance maybe we make point to say hey Jay can you talk to staff to see if or Natalie can you talk to a planning commissioner to see if someone is available to make that next meeting and then doesn't necessarily have to be a schedule but maybe if someone if we know it's going to be a complex uh discussion it might be beneficial if we can get someone and if we can't we live with it but just a way to try to at least get someone there for the ones that they may be the most useful for to to have there um which I think is doable yeah I also ped out the survey but um if I could add could can I get you the microphone so everybody catches it don't don't want to be difficult sorry okay um are we discussing the scope of two things Leon's attending city council and city council attending commission or just one both both okay could you could you please say your name and address just for the record oh I didn't know I had to okay I think technically I've just been LAX on okay 20415 um I think there's adding perspective I think there's a ton of value having council at at least planning meetings um being able to ask questions is incredibly valuable and I know consistently we have we have you joining us um but uh the other thing would be perhaps if we do continue with this how can we play a more active and valuable role to bring something to you or to add perspective or make it more than sitting in the audience in any way if that's valuable um otherwise there's the responsibility of catching up and all of those things I think this is a communication thing that either we receive summaries of each other's meetings or we figure out a way to drive that communication without the leison program or we figure out a way to make it more valuable time for everybody appreciate it than thank you thank you very much and I I'll just say if I could just add to that I think that you had some important comments I I I get on YouTube and I watch your meetings after the fact when they're you know once they've been posted so just just know and I'm sure you already know this just know that those meetings are available okay I just don't know if people you know would take the time to do that that's amazing you do that but that's really helpful feedback just in terms of an active role uh and it might actually get back to what you're talking about mayor uh in terms of uh we we have committee Council reports and stuff maybe a commissioner actually provides feedback uh yeah just just as an idea and then maybe it's not every meeting maybe it you know well we tend to have a planning heavy meeting and a non plan less planning heavy meeting maybe we try to time it up with that we do have meetings occasionally about that have planning items and sometimes it's that is what we tend to do is we try to have it on the second meeting of the month the planning heavy meeting uh but for example uh August 8th we're anticipating a plat to go there not one reviewed by the Planning Commission so that they might not have a lot to uh wait on that but other times there have been examples of where something gets put on the eth or the first meeting and maybe maybe that's when we could ask more for hey can someone fill in on that sure but maybe generally we try to change it to just something like giving a report at that every other meeting that that planning heavy meeting so it kind of lowers the the other items we don't currently um we can check our policy for Zoom but a lot of times we have Commissioners who are attend end in over Zoom last time I attended over Zoom I wasn't able to be I wasn't unmuted so when I tried to talk so I think that that might be a little are we able to control that aspect of I believe we can but I think it's whoever's in the driver's seat has a lot of they have to be paying attention that someone's requesting to speak and if they feel uncomfortable they're not going to unmute them because they don't if they don't recognize the name for whatever reason so um I like I think especially as when you have a new city clerk they might be like nope nope I'm not unmuting it if that's the policy so if they don't recognize the name so because as a staff member I should be able to speak on May maybe part of that could be resolved in terms of telling them to put a certain title um on there just have to adjust the policy I think just to have it be clearer yeah it'll get scammed yeah all of sudden everyone's a commissioner everyone's J toin or you could you could send out an email beforehand and have them put that two-digit code their three-digit code at the end of their name or something like that something that sure we wouldn't say out loud so whoever's watching wanting to crash the meetings wouldn't know but yeah um yeah yeah so those are some potential options any other thoughts I I enjoy going I I love listening the new Planning Commission we have have up here is very very engaged in such so I I can go I can stay away whatever they wish I just it's uh and and really look back at Leons were added because what I thought was it seems as if on the Planning Commission side when I was there comments were made like we're making recommendations the council does whatever they want after that and I'm like and that's where we're entitled as planning Commissioners to go to the council meetings and participate if that's an option so L on i' I'd love it when the point comes that the the director of planning the director of parks those folks are kind of the people that what do I want to say it can give input can give information and such and let everybody know in the Planning Commission and the parks that we do i' listen to both even though I'm here for the Planning Commission I still jump online and Rel listen in case I missed something or misunderstood and on the park side listen to that just because of where we sit we've got to make some good calls and we've got some really cool volunteers helping us out so I'm either way the thing that I'd like to do is would love it if somebody else could take the planning side I've been on it now okay two and a half years I've shared with Allan there for a year but somebody's interested be happy to let somebody else go to planning which is what second or if I'm welcome I can keep coming first it's first first Thursday first Thursday of every month I'm open that's a that's a it falls Square in the category of I should talk to my wife first wise man yeah um but potentially at least maybe I could split no and again I I I can keep coming in such my issue is is Thursdays are my work day I get out of my job at 6:20 to 6:30 in the evening Don and Bloomington I'm rushing to get here I don't want to be late for these I don't want to be late I don't want to show any disrespect to any commissioner any meeting I'm going to I always want to be early or on time so that that's me so gotcha if I could just add one final comment we we get a lot of benefit from our volunteers and my concern is I I don't want to burn them out by mandating attendance yeah to listen to us talk about you know uh storm drainage you know um we've been here plenty of times until 11 o'clock at night and I've looked out at a at a commission representative and I can just hear the representative thinking gosh I wish I was at home with my kids right you know so I I I you know I just don't want it to be my recommendation is that attendance should be voluntary and not mandated okay um I think the same okay um and whatever is added I think a lot of it gets subtracted from from me too much time gets subtracted from home time gotcha both us and commission gotcha um so when you say making it uh voluntary still you on board with maybe like what I was saying earlier encouraging if they want to come and potentially implementing some sort of like uh report that they' bring to council and maybe when they are coming it could even be more limited to just the meetings we you know the big planning meetings and or when we think there's something odd coming up on an agenda that's not lining up with that normal planning schedule or Parks could I I was sympathetic to staff's recommendation that staff provide the direct feedback from the commission most of the time but I I would like to get more contact between Council and commission what about a quarterly update where the commission talks about the general themes of the quarter any input they have from the recent past but it's not a tactical discussion around specific projects or requests it's more of a strategic view of how the park system is developing or not developing or how planning in general is being handled by the city or or issues with development are being handled by the city could I make a recommendation please with that uh a potential consideration I know the council is reluctant but but then you're getting from one person I also hear in that uh kind of getting to know who else we're collaborating with uh we we do do work sessions and is a work session that opportunity in order to get that collaborative feedback uh as as well as potentially focus on a particular work project so for example we had a work session in which uh the council met with the parks and trails commission to discuss Park standards as well as the master planning of the park that that seems like a pretty important face-to-face conversation uh and and there's similar things happening with code uh for the Planning Commission uh and so those might be the really good opportunities to get that strategic connection and perspective Ive uh at a work session rather than just an agenda item but I also am sensitive to the fact that you know work sessions mean more time means being here earlier U so that's one other thing before I forget it um kind of touching on you're talking about you know the amount of time it can be which can be a lot especially when we're here late some meetings uh does it help if we make a point that and maybe even try to recognize it in the meeting that you know we have an 11 O'er coming and planning's done at 9:20 that we mention hey you know whoever here for planning can leave if they'd like or stay if they'd like but they're probably the topics that they're going to uh be there to weigh in on are probably over so that way they don't have to feel pressured to stay through the whole meeting if it helps yeah I mean yeah for sure that should be just a courtesy yeah your part to dismiss people I don't think we need Council action I think you can do that I we'll make a note of it one one other thing I would add is um h i I think having a a council person um being a leisan lean what's the word you say it so well Le uh a collaborator yeah so the uh undo influence would be a concern of mine okay but our role should absolutely mostly to be nonparticipants in the conversation um and and I haven't I don't know if you guys do that or not but it it would just generally be a concern that how involved they are in the meeting they should I would want to make sure that they're not actually involved with the meeting okay yeah I think that's an important um consideration because if I if I attend a Planning Commission meeting you know should I really share if I like an application or not I I don't think that that would be appropriate to to share my uh you know my interpretation of of an application at a Planning Commission meeting it they're independent and they they make recommendations to city council and I'm just concerned that if I were to attend a meeting and if they ask me a question and I give them an honest answer I may have influence over their deliberations and their recommendations so I I think that if um council members uh do liaison with the um you know especially with the Planning Commission uh maybe we should just be really careful and you know just kind of uh being really careful in our comments gotcha um thoughts on that from like John that's along the same lines what you were saying yeah I think to a degree if what I try to do in Parks is not guide the conversation or dictate but more give them things to discuss and determine if course X make sense do they do they want to talk about an alternate route do they not want to talk about an alternate route for a for example and I I don't know if if you don't have the council member free to prompt in that way I I agree about not guiding toward a particular outcome or sharing an opinion but if you're not engaged at any level in the conversation I I wouldn't see the value in having the Leon present yeah I that's kind of why I don't think that I don't think we need it they should be independent decision making bodies and what was your take on the the value of the lers and to the commissions I think that if you know in the in the situation where there's no le I think it's I don't know and only from my perspective but it's helpful to know that we're being heard by Council okay so in the instance that you're not there I think that's fine but we need to need to understand or guarantee not guarantee but provide some sort of confidence that the communication is happening M and the stances the challenges I you know like the quarterly report I see totally what you're getting at um CC Nicholls so I I I think in that instance the thing to solell for would be how do we Bubble Up what's happening and make sure Council receives it and then we have the opportunity the other piece is there's rarely a meeting that goes by where we don't ask questions to councelor V camp or whoever is there so and I and I hope I try to yeah you do and you do as neutral as possible in everything you always are always at the end and it's about Council it's about whatever we see is happening in the city it might be about recent events whatever it is but that's a great opportunity for us to ask questions so then we need to s for that too but I you know so that's what the value is for us or me I can't speak on beh of everyone else if I could make two comments that the previous cities that I've worked in uh that that uh connection role in terms of uh being clearly communicating to the council what the commission is trying to communicate and ensuring that the commission understands where the council's at that role uh has has been a staff responsibility in the last uh two cities that I've worked in uh but I also can recognize how um particularly in a city of our size uh that collaborative partnership and relationship is valued um so that's and in that spirit I I would ask um Natalie to read we we have an online commissioner that left a note and so I would just ask her to to read their comments since they're not present but it's another helpful perspective of a commissioner who's attending this meeting if I may so commissioner Schmidt says as a newer Comm commissioner I find the lison rooll useful to keep the teams connected in appreciating the process I agree with the speaker present that if there was a summary report out to align all the cross functional parties it would be more useful this would help alleviate the requirement of an individual to join and standardize the messages being shared across the teams thanks gotcha thank you so with those comments is that lead us anywhere on I I I'm hesitant to fully erase it I'm open I think to the tweaks I guess my preference would be to to maybe look at some of these tweaks now try to improve the process eliminate some of our concerns about eliminate some of the time you know the excess time commitment and see if that accomplishes what we're going for and if not then maybe we have to have this discussion again about further taking steps to either to completely overhaul or remove the program or you know change it to a staff position or something like that well I I did like your proposal if there is something you know significant let's say there's a significant development application that's coming in front of the Planning Commission I think it's very reasonable to ask for you know can someone attend right um I so I I would have no no issue with that I'm just concerned when you know if there's a um you know a a meeting and there there isn't uh you know a significant application being considered but there's a lot of stuff on the agenda do we do we really need someone you know attending one of our meetings to hear about storm water management I would say no unless they want to unless they want to right so it seems like a one-way change might makes sense where you make the liaison to the council at will not a requirement of being on the commission and maybe we think about over the next 3 to six months does it make sense to phase out maybe that's something for the new Council to decide do we want to have a liaison from the council to the commissions I heard a oh yeah I so so so one one thing that I'd say that the challenge uh in The Proposal that council member lanterman suggests in terms of identifying particular items um in my short time here um it's not always predictable what items are going to generate discussion or you you're going to desire additional perspective and uh so sometimes you might think that this is is going to stay on consent and and then it's not for an unforeseen reason uh and it generates greater discussion or raises greater questions that's hard to forecast I as I heard commission sorry councelor lanterman I think you were talking about if council is aware of an item that will go to Planning Commission the next month Council might say Dean would you be willing to attend because this is a thank you for clarifying exactly thank you thanks for clarifying I did misunderstand maybe you still have concerns about that but it sounds like it might be a different concern and and then last thing that I I'd say that probably for staff it might be helpful the consideration of the value that I have heard from our new Commissioners to to include that in terms of part of the train up for new Commissioners that we highly encourage them to attend a council meeting and it might actually be beneficial if we have more than one commissioner on the same commission that are new to go together and for them to to chat about what Lessons Learned I didn't know that I didn't foresee that that yeah absolutely so that would be an easy tweak for us to include that as part of our commissioner training mhm so I think that that change the kind of one way change you were talking about maybe reassessing the second part I I could support that for now and then review it in New Year or later in the year for the other part if we think they's still an issue well and I I did like the recommendation of the quarterly maybe quarterly you know update or status update meeting yeah maybe if we're concerned about only getting one perspective maybe we select the chair of that commission who's responsible for harmonizing the feedback of the commission to present and I I like the idea of it being an agenda item that's you know 10 15 minutes versus an hour and a half of work session for everybody I think it'll be easier everybody schedu but I was talking about even when they're creating that report that would be an agenda item for them and then maybe their chair or whoever comes presents it to us in a 15 minute type thing I like that I didn't catch that that makes sense but that makes sense so just to clarify right now we do an annual report of the planning activity that we've covered and goals that we'd like to discuss as a commission um so we would want that done on a quarterly basis cuz St would need to be the same same scale uh just a smaller like Jeremy said 10 minute quarterly 15 minute quarterly report um hopefully it's stuff that then at the end of the year could be folded in and just a lot of copy and paste into and then added on to for the year report um you could potentially think about getting rid of the annual and just make it quarterly smaller bites more regular how you f with that the the advantage of the annual report is it's the same time that the commissions are working on their strategic objectives to bring to council for how to help with with the goals and measurables for the next year does that become a specific request of the fourth quarter La report that's a really interesting proposal so actually have them come and report in the fourth quarter what they'd like to happen for the next year we've had that happen before before you guys were on the council okay so it just becomes a different timing issue from when we do so what difference are we talking when we get a planning project update every month for I'd rather not add more to staff we're already getting a planning this would be from the commission update from the commission from staff as far as the commission Planning Commission planning project update and it's five pages nowling is the annual report usually we draft it and then it goes to Planning Commission for them to like take a look at it make sure it's what what they want to say add anything as a chance for to go over goals and priorities and then that gets approved to then go to council so I'm trying to figure out exactly how that would work on a 3mon rotation exactly um so I don't especially with present workload it's it's hard to achieve the objectives I think it could be something as simple as a list of the projects they're working on uh summary like follow points of if there was potential sticking points or questions they had about how code things or things they'd like to look into further because this code issue came up on this project led to discussion we'd like to look into changing this code or at least reviewing what this actually means or what the impact is of this or what alternatives to this if there are miscellaneous things like that doesn't have to be anything too in depth I don't think is what we're talking about yeah I wouldn't see it as being the same content as we get in the specific project summary I think the value is more in keeping the communication going yeah but it would still be prepared by staff just to be clear like the and then the commission presents it or were we saying the commission would draft it I guess I'm a little confused on that because if we're talking about we want the commission's perspective I we would for example for a quarterly report in March We have basically would have to have that report drafted in February to get commission to make sure that it incorporates everything they want to say I think the three mon rotation is where I'm struggling in terms of being able to whip that out what I was envisioning when I proposed it was not staff preparing something it was the commission talking about what they've learned and the questions they've had over the previous three months whatever the projects were and if there are changes they would like to suggest to council or issues that they feel we haven't addressed that we said that we would it's a chance to touch base rather than drive for a new strategic objective or add to a measurable or review a specific item it's really more about the conversation between the bodies and how we feel we're working together and how the code is serving division really how I would do it as staff or as a commissioner would be to just on a iPad or on piece of paper write these notes as you're going through your meetings and then when it comes to the time for the report put that all together put it on that single document and have someone come present that to council we need to adjourn real quick Zoom got shut down if we could just pause real quick okay we will not adjourn recess yep recess for five minutes thank you I'm sorry no no problem all right call the meeting back to order and we will continue with our discussion uh we were in the middle of 7 F uh the the remaining item on the liaison um and we were're discussing the potential quar ofly reports and so what I what I came away understanding mayor is is you really see this as a connection opportunity more so than a data exchange opportunity uh so staff will continue to do the the monthly report that we're doing U providing that information and then uh a commissioner would come to a council meeting quarterly uh in order to try and just get some feedback from you on potentially some uh priorities or validating what they're doing and then also an opportunity for them to ask some questions some validate question and report on progress so I I'm taking away that it's an informal so as far as I guess one of the concerns that I I heard with Natalie is is with the that Commission in particular with the Planning Commission they have so much on on their plate to add something else to the plate would be a concern uh if it's to come back and provide information that council is already getting uh but what I heard instead is that it's an opportunity to connect relationally and ensure that some of the things that that ly was talking about are happening I think we're very open to it being whatever they think is valuable to bring up so Flex yeah understood thank you and and maybe like what would be valuable for you to hear from and I think I think we'll we'll get a better handle of that as we start to get in some of these um it might change yeah it almost certainly will probably should so yeah and and then I guess Beyond maybe if we're that's the change we're making beyond that it's uh encouraged but certainly not mandatory to come uh to the council meetings other than that and with the exception of maybe if we know we have a large item that we try to ask and and get someone there ahead of time that was the other direction that was Council going to commission for major items was the context of that earlier Point Oh I thought it was your way too Tom I thought it was my way too yeah that's why I asked a clarifying question and I was corrected but it could be both um but I think we settled the other I the way that I've seen the commission liaison typically work it's fairly rare that someone speaks up on a topic during a council meeting so unless we envision directly asking for that person to speak uh I don't know that just by having them attend we're going to generate any different dialogue than we get today yeah I think the only the only talking about like if we were to ask them to come on a specific case I think the only time we would do that is if we looked at an item and it was a the most complex development project that we've had that we just we know what we're going to need maybe we've watched their meetings on it and there's a lot of questions we have it'd be a very specific Case by case phas is probably not used a whole bunch okay that makes sense to me sort of like a phone a friend yeah a little bit little bit light does that work for everyone then for kind of all of those changes for now and then we can kind of reassess some other things down the road if we want so so to recap so I understand mayor council liaison at this point will not change uh the commission liaison will no longer be mandatory but at will uh encouraged to attend uh we'll um instead go to a quarterly update at this point it would be the chair Commissioners or if they are are unable to attend an intentional appointed person uh in order to maintain the the continuity uh with Council very good works perfect do we need a motion for that or be good with consensus on that uh SE do we need a motion I think because you're ASP with the hours the motion for all of it I'll make a motion to approve uh those changes in policy as amended as we have just discussed second uh any further discussion all those in favor say I I I Mr yeah can I have point of order question sure um not related uh in our packet it said that Matt was going to get recognized for 10 years that that was a he he will be uh when he's been here 10 years like next yeah a couple months te technicality December December I I did ask Amy this evening since you know I was can we count on him being here till December she reassured me uh that we'll be able to to schedule that so but just to show proof I did have my list of 2014 facts in here somewhere too all right they weren't as good as the 94 packs but somebody probably communicated that it was done in error but I was in my car I oh no it was it just I think came up like yesterday that we realized it was a couple months away all right thanks we didn't want to miss anyone and in our Zeal to recognize everyone uh we are a little premature gotcha gotcha on to uh the other pulled item which was 7n and I think a few of us pulled it so who wants to take it Jeremy pulled it I did pull it uh I think it would be better to have that conversation after we get a little additional data to help us select appropriate cities so I would propose that we defer this item to a future meeting when staff can prepare a little bit more data for us is there something specific could could I ask for one adjustment council member sure uh so so we are moving uh trying to move ahead with our with our uh comp and class study and that's that's one of the the impacted reasons why we're asking for this uh in in the staff report I said that I was trying to get that data I have not received that yet that's why I wasn't able to share that with you on those other cities uh and if you recall there were seven cities that the s that we have historically used as comparables so I would request the council consider that in order to not stop the process we use those seven comparables and uh as soon as I have the additional data for you to consider the others uh to add we we're talking about adding up to three other cities uh and I I think I gave you eight to consider uh once I have that data I'll get that to you as soon as possible it might be as soon as the next council meeting meeting but in case it's not uh if we could go with the seven that we have used historically to not delay the process that would be my request I'm good with that can we comment on the cities sure tonight sure like well the classifications of sub 10,000 I think was relevant when they had had those um I think I don't so the one that sticks out for me is wisett a um I work in myetta and it's a fine town uh I work there for 30 years but I I think there I want to say I wouldn't want my service delivery standards in Corin to be held to some WIA standard because that means it that rings to me like expensive M and needy um and there's nothing wrong with that but uh and then in in uh even in Maple Grove I think the the some of the when we compare a lot of I think it's normal for a smaller City to have smaller expectations of less of experience um we've had some of our police police officers go from here to bigger cities these um I just think we want to have have it be something similar in demographics population and then also geographical location too which these are geographical next next to us but I think St Michael compar is better with us than wetta um this this is a I think also like um yeah that's it okay um the the benchmarks as I understand from what I could find that were established uh and I don't know when we adopted those uh they were used in terms of uh comparison on our staffing um and so I I know Mr gach was using that for a significant period of time uh so um at that time I believe it was population uh and in terms of the budget revenues expenditures and then uh to council member bottom as Point uh geography uh uh proximity to to Minneapolis actually was oh one of the variables um and and I'm not stating that those are the necessary variables I'm saying that for right now if we could keep those seven uh so we can move forward and then if there's others that we should consider you'd like us to consider please let me know let's add those uh because we're still waiting to get that data so we could add those uh if there's some that you absolutely don't want us to consider then let's not waste our time uh and let's remove those uh but um if you have variables in the equation so so where we get our data it comes from a league of Minnesota cities they collect data from all the cities and so there's some things that might be really interesting for us to to compare to that are very difficult if not impossible for us as staff to gather all of the data from all of the cities to do comparison so right now we use a a database provided by League of Minnesota CI do comparison so we're we're Limited in some of the data points based on what they collect uh but there are some considerations that we as staff had so this recommendation for example uh for some of the Cities added um use a similar Philosophy for Police Department because some of our comparel don't have a public safety department uh and there's implications there for us both in terms of Staffing budget uh philosophy of service um and then for example if you compare some of our cities they don't have the same standards they may have a similar police department but they don't have the St they're not the safest city in Minnesota and and that's one of our expectations for service deliveries so if we're wanting to compare to cities we probably want to look at cities that have that high level of standard in terms of Public Safety rather than looking at a city that has a pretty high crime rate but a really low tax rate yeah yeah I think population growth rate might also be an important parameter to consider a fast growing city will have more stress on it than a lower growth City I can tell you right now the only city comparable right now in Minnesota to growth rate is Dayton yeah there it's Dayton corpin big gap tier two uh I would also think how much of your tax base as residential versus commercial and Industrial could be an important variable to consider as well for per capita taxes uh and to the Dee that we can get it you know staff count and the rate at which staff count is changing in those cities so this is for the followup yeah and I wouldn't comment also that you know the data that that the league and the sources because our growth is so fast that there is a hard it's hard to find the you know we know what our what we believe our population to be um but because we grow so quickly year over year that you know many of these cities you know we actually are you know might be at 1,500 more people than what than what the data points at the league reporting was if they look if their number is from last year we're growing by 1,200 people a year which is you know pretty significant big percentage Yeah so they have us at 7 ,1 158 and as of December 89 and there's a leg on that um so that was actually like April 2023 by the Met Cil so there's disconnect between the league and the Met uh yeah projections you I asked chpt this once and then followed up with staff and I think they that actually got the closest number to what we think is accurate which was about at the time 8350 or something like that so but kind of cool so the highest number I've heard is 8,643 then what do we need the Met Council for well there's an excellent question council member thank you won't hear me fight that we need them to make sure that our toilets flush I know I know good plumbers I'm good so so so I've added population growth rate tax base staff size are there any other data points that you would like us to potentially consider or explore or any other cities you'd like us to add or any on this list that you have in front of you that you'd like us to remove from the consider list or from yeah from the from the consider list or if you would like us to going forward to not have a city that's on the confirmed list so I hear council member bottom is concerned one with wetta I guess maybe if you feel strongly about it should we replace it with St Michael you know what um if there if this is the report that they're already running um and it's just a data point it's not as if you can't just ignore it yeah so I don't need a okay a revamp of procedure because I happen to not think corrin's that much like WIA sounds good spent a lot of time in bold yeah fair enough sounds good so yeah I think those data points we uh get those back at some point whether it's next meeting or whever um maybe let's make I made a note um that St Michael John's opinion might be a good fit and from what I familiar with the city I I would agree I think that there's a lot of comparable aspects um and then hopefully that data will help us find consensus to get two or three of those on there perfect so don't think we need a motion that one discussion sounds good then we will move on to planning business we have just one item and it's continued on from a few meetings ago and that is the chastic farms uh application Natalie do you have anything you have a presentation if Council would like it's just going over the changes um made to the application and I don't have to get into great detail of the proposed benefits and summaries but I do have a couple slides on there just going over that so okay um C want to hear the brief presentation on the changes meeting okay let's do that please oh I see what you're saying now yeah I apologize control save there you go okay so to the next slide so again um this is a continuation from an application reviewed by the council at the end of June and it's for the chastic property located at 7600 Maple Hill Road right now the proposal has been revised to 112 single family residential lots with seven outlots and and uh a major component is that off-road Trail providing a continuous experience from this property down to Bass Lake Crossing uh through what will be Fairway Shores uh cook Lake down to the Bass Lake Estates next slide uh as far as the major revisions uh the revised plan is on the screen here four lot and a private Drive were uh removed in the northwest corner and the area was replaced with one larger lot of about 20,000 Square ft and um as well as one more acre of open space was added in this open space they are proposing a gazebo or covered shelter with a rural architectural theme uh there I have some examples on the next slide to go into that a bit more the private open space in gazebo are proposed to be made of available to the public which would be subject to a private public agreement did reach out to um at least one city at so far that has a template that would be something that could be handled as part of the final plat final PUD could I can I ask a question I'm sorry to interrupt I know you're on a rooll here but so if I want to go there I I don't live there uh I have to sign some this is an agreement with the city so we would outline the the the responsibilities in in a separate private agreement that we would arrange so there are a couple of examples if you've ever been to Viking lakes and Egan they have several spaces in that development that are private open space but they are um they are available to the public most of the time they still have some ability to uh activate that space for a private event uh but there is an agreement with the city that's quite detailed and I do have a copy of that to use as a template it's been very successful great so there would be um there'd be something that could be finalized as part of the final PUD if that were to move forward thank you um so the um one of the things that they changed in their flexibility request based on the feedback received by Council was uh A reduced application for the three car garage UH 60 foot 60% maximum uh so it would only now apply up to 17 Lots about 15% of the development they're requesting and there's some additional caveats that additional design features that they would provide on those slots in return uh so I'll get into that a bit more on a subsequent slide so this is just a zoom in of where the open space is located depending on which way you're going on the trail it would either be located at the end or the beginning of the trail uh but the Gazebo or covered Shel shelter is located very close to the trail to provide both a visual ter and ey visual experience as well as a nearby by enhancement for the trail experience so the Gazebo examples they've provided again were based on some feedback during the meeting that there was a desire to incorporate rural architecture such as a silo they are open to something that's more classic as well uh but they heard Silo and staff heard Silo so here's your Silo um and it's definitely something though that could be subject to uh uh we could have something more classical such as what's in our garden behind City Hall with a couple of weather ve as well so that's definitely open for discussion these are just examples next slide so again just kind of running through the real quickly the Pud components open space they need 12% open space for the um lot with they are requesting and that results to about 4.03 Acres that is required the area outside of the FL flood plane has been confirmed at 5.48 Acres of open space which is about 6 16% so they are over the 12% the requested flexibilities are the 25t rear stepback except for a 20 foot rear setback on Lots 28 and 87 20 Lots would have to have flexibility where the width is measured and one lot uh the new lot or not the new lot but the new Big Lot of 20,000 Square ft would also have to have some flexibility in where the lot width is measured it starts out really narrow to work work with the trail easement in that location but then it becomes very large to a lot width of about 140 ft at the maximum Point um and then there the 60% maximum garage Frontage instead of 55% which is our standard again only 17 Lots would be able to qualify for this and in exchange those lots would have to have at least one of the following features a garage Frontage extending no more than 3 ft from the front door the garage doors must be wood in appearance with architectural detail such as Windows handles hinges um and that or the front facade shall include stone or LP siding so um again increased architectural standard next slide so I'll try to Briefly summarize the proposed public benefits that we have the existing improving the existing public Street Network in this area which will require significant capital investment but will be a benefit to the existing residents including Maple Hill and Bass Lake Estates as well as future development in the area higher architectural standards 12 styles of different elevation facades were submitted the city PUD ordinance requires five a minimum setback of 85 ft from Maple Hill Road uh significant collaboration with ad joining land owners including beneficial Street connections and storm water management for the incoming development that was approved to the east for Fairway Shores and incorporating feedback from residents from Maple Hill Estates as well as Bas Lake Crossing lot size variety more than half the Lots exceed 7500 Square fet extensive internal Landscaping nearly 200% of the required overstory trees are propo proposed and nearly 300% of the required amount of understory trees are proposed use of native plants and Landscaping a large majority of the overstory coniferous trees are native species we have listed in our preferred trees list for the Northeast District plant and design guidelines same with use of preferred trees in landscaping all but one of their tree species and it wasn't very many trees that proposed with this species are from pref the preferred tree list 100% of the lots are within a quarter mile of a neighborhood focal point with the um Greenway that's proposed the visual termin at the end of the trail with the proposed gazebo next Slide the open space is usable and meets the following open space features that are outlined in our PUD public benefit policy accessible to the local population of the neighborhood the open space is a framing and organizing feature open space is designed to not appear at someone's backyard through the use of different species of ground cover storm water management is incorporated as a design feature and the open space will be made available to the public um open space is connected so where it's not Consolidated uh through a combination of natural corridors sidewalks and trails the open space is connected um and then the areas of the open space are above the minimum requirement per the Pud ordinance based on lot withd next slide so Planning Commission and staff recommend approval of the ordinance to reone to a PUD which requires a 4 F majority of the council summary ordinance would also require the four fth majority we have the resolution with findings effect for resoning the resolution approving preliminary P PUD development plan that is the meat of the approvals in front of you tonight if there's changes you want to make to the standards that are proposed that is the Bas that's the resolution we would be referring to and then resolution 202 2474 approves the preliminary plat um if the council finds the application does not meet the standards for PUD approval an alternative resolution 202 2472 was provided in the packet for denial thank you thank you anyone want to thr on discussion any thoughts on um I guess in particular the changes uh if that has I have a question if we go back two slides if we go to the proposed public benefit as I understand in the the the there is a uh public benefit component of a PUD approval that is above what would be under a normal application process mhm so like for example um use of native plants in landscaping we have a list of trees that people would use in a nonp situation right they could not in this District so as part of the Pud public benefit policy we established to try to encourage wide use of the Northeast District standards the this was identified as a potential public benefit for um developments in this District the southeast District so they are so that's how that's why it's a benefit here if this development was in the Northeast District you're correct that they would be expected to comply um under a standard PL yeah and then so and just to get some clarification um there's something about uh the storm I mean it would have to have storm Water Management Systems regardless of whether it was P PUD or code correct so the open space when was talking about storm water is how how incorporating storm water management as a design feature rather than just kind of this stagnant Pond of water that's dirt half the year what they're proposing is that hydraulic Greenway Corridor which would include no no go back one page no I'm talking about this one collaboration with ad joining land owners including oh no so they have gone above and beyond with the storm water management to help Fairway Shores Fairway Shores is going to be a very difficult site if if that if this development doesn't get approve they will have to completely redesign their storm water for Fairway Shores and um there are some challenges with that so that's a benefit for Fairway Shores more than for public it is but again we've identified collaboration with ad joining land owners as a public benefit in our policy um to try to encourage better development and this it goes above and beyond what you would typically see with a standard plat okay how so can you they don't they don't need to collaborate with the no I know but what are what is the proposal in terms of the storm water maybe Steve so because the two developments have but one another they're putting in the storm water system that actually shared between the two developments and there's a wetland in that corner and so with the Fairway Shores alone they have some challenges of making sure the Wetland States enough water gets to it and so they're routing it through their Pond into the Wetland to make sure it stays kind of in an adequate condition so gotcha okay thank you other questions or comments we're in our discussion now right yeah okay yeah I have some comments uh Mr Mayor thank you for the opportunity to address the proposed Chast Farms development plan I have serious concerns about the adequacy of the current design specifically the Reliance on a single entrance and exit for a development of this size the safety and well-being of our residents are paramont based on my 32 years of Public Safety experience and Common Sense uh I believe multiple access points are essential in residential areas of this size to ensure rapid and unobstructed access for emergency vehicles a single entry and exit can s significantly impede emergency response times which is critical in emergencies such as fires or medical situations moreover efficient evacuation routes are crucial for the safety of residents a single exit can create bottlenecks during emergencies delaying evacuation and increasing risk for a development of over 100 homes it is not just advisable but necessary to have multiple ACC access points to ensure safety and smooth traffic flow in my opinion the development plan should include exits at both the southwest and Northwest Corners additionally this would require improvements to the law or excuse me to the road along the western uh property line This adjustment would provide better access for emergency vehicles and more efficient evacuation routes for residents given these concerns I recommend denying the current application unless it includes Provisions for exits of both the Northwest and southwest corners uh of the development uh the benefits proposed by the applicant do not justify the potential safety risks associated with limited access points thank you thank you uh any one on Council have any followup to that otherwise I was going to ask class uh staff for some clarification on um where are the equ of a map of so so Mark you were [Music] talking are you asking me what I would support yeah or yeah you had mentioned Northwest Southwest I believe yeah so southwest corner northwest corner and then uh unimproved roadway obviously between the two to service the Norther uh most uh entrance the entrance is currently right here about Midway you're saying two more entrances onto Maple no I'm saying a total of two total of two so what what I am what I would support um because I don't think that that one is sufficient uh I don't think that that we need three I think that we need at least two so I think in my opinion at a minimum uh uh remove the entrance as it as it is shown there centrally and add entrances at the uh Northwest and Southwest uh Corners so just so that you're aware we do have this master plan for the southeast District area um well potentially there could be some alignment in the southwest corner and redes the central loc Central entrance down to that southwest corner that northeast corner is would create a conflict with the intended Street Network in that area so there's also engineering there's connector spacing that we're considering when we locate an entrance for development as well as the future Road Network that we're planning for um so the one entrance here was offset by uh two entrances or two exits and entrances here to provide flow that was approved by the public that was approved as part of the public safety memo um they said the first plan that they saw was missing this access point so the memo was clarifying that two were needed for both this property and the development to the east to be able to function and have proper circulation and those entrances are now provided um as far as and adding another entrance um I would like to get engineering's thought on the how that works with the proposed Street Network um but the I think that would be something to weigh off with the city is do we want another entrance instead of the open space in gazebo and Trail feature yeah thank you and that that doesn't change my opinion but thank you but just to be clear you would be okay with less open space in the gazebo in terms to get the additional entrance yeah I think the the safety of our residents outweighs a gazebo any thoughts from the rest of Council on that or other items Mr Mayor yeah that's that's my biggest thing right now is just that one entrance um while I appreciate and understand the Fairway Shores collaboration and everything else it just seems to be constricted there um construction traffic is going to go in and out there um a lot of construction traffic is going to go through an existing neighborhood and we've heard from that neighborhood saying so be it but I I agree with how councelor Lerman said it not only Public Safety and stuff but just general access for construction and General flow of traffic it just seems I have we've got the same kind of issue so to speak up in bellweather where we had one entrance and at some point it's going to elaborate out the four or five different entrances as things develop around there's not much that's going to develop around this and I just I don't understand how we can say yes to this without having a at least one more entrance and as quick as the way those Gaz the Gazebo came and those houses went away up on on the North side why can't that be another entrance jar does the southeast connection get made even if Fairway Shores doesn't proceed so if Fairway Shores doesn't proceed I believe the applicant's intent would be to still secure easement so they can make that connection now uh because they agree that they need to have the two access points and they prefer to have that second access point come from there rather than trying to force an emergency access up in the northwest corner which North yes northwest corner which is the alternative identified by staff um theoretically I don't know we haven't looked at adding an access in that southwest corner um and again Public Safety when they reviewed this their concern was making sure we had a connection point in the northeast corner which we now have so I um so yeah that's that's the public safety recommendation if feary Shores doesn't happen that's a connection to nothing that Northeast was that that was a holistic Regional connection which would have included the southeast connection as well with the the added top one was for internal circulation within between the two between the between the two because you can mitigate um unpassable roadways or you know as you have more circulation within so the East connections the North and South um were as as she said it was looked at with Fairway Shores in conjunction as you zoom out and that's it also included the southeast connection for consideration to for Lane that's ends up being offsite for this one so that's one of the reasons the East connections were considered when we looked at the big picture was total circulation but that also did include the southeast Corner access as another Ingress and egress from there is the southeast Corner access a requirement as we would approve as it's drafted one way or the other I if if that were to be a selling point we could certainly at this point draft that that Southeast Corner needs to happen in order for the public safety and then whether or not it's because Fairway shortes move forward or they've secured the easement then we that's something we can work through um because I yeah I will just add to the Fairway shores without this or without development on this property for the reable future will only have one access and that's 75 homes so that we'd be creating the problem we're trying to avoid exactly okay um with regards to construction traffic very sympathetic to that idea that can only is there a way to put into the agreement that construction traffic will come along Maple Hill Road and use that exit versus that's where thank you for that clarification that was um so that is I believe their main intent would be to use Maple Hill they're not planning to go through Bass Lake uh Bass Lake again that's Fairway Shores that will be having construction going through Bass Lake and all the more that they would have to rely on that um without any kind of is that in the no it's not in there but we could certainly put something to that effect that construction traffic should utilize Maple Hill Estates do that not Maple Hill States yeah not no don't utilize me St please don't I apologize to add that I I would support making an amendment to add a requirement so that we have something we can enforce against later okay if we need to you making not of that now yeah the only thing we'll note is we can't we have a hard time if we can't differentiate between from a practicality standpoint the construction versus resident emergency services and so similar to like where we had Bell weather at Hunter Ridge right we can't because there's construction traffic coming all hours of the day and during night find added it just we can't differentiate truck we might have to put some sort of barricade and there that only allows emergency response of for an intern condition we have to make that decision of when we transfer from just allowing people to navigate development the development agreement isn't something we can pull over something that look like a construction traffic that happens to be a resident so when we look at the enforceability it ends up being at the development level it's hard from a public safety standpoint to discern um they're not a they're not public streets at that point right generally not yeah so it's hard to enforce private stre and it's hard half buil out when half of the houses are people living in them and the other half are being constructed how we keep the construction you can't let the people living so we can do like you can do those things but keep in mind it's probably shut down in a way no one can travel through it until a certain transition Point yeah cuz once they're public anyone can go on it for any reason unless they're over the weight limit but if they're private it's hard to send the police department out there because it's private property well to some extent it is an open development so we do have right of access yeah yeah I get it but I don't know if tight you can control your vehicles yeah I I think we could certainly set the expectation um it may be challenging with Fairway Shores since they are using it um to determine which development one are going to the other but I think working with the applicant team is something that they could certainly work with their contractors that this is the expectation so I don't think there's any harm in including that that is the expectation in the resolution so I think as far as Logistics there might be some challenges but we can certainly have the message out there come are comments permitted I just just just clarify Maple Hill will be a public street at the time it's already Street that's true you could yeah thanks consideration I think can I speak yeah okay um I think this is different from when planning saw it in a in a good way um but maybe there is proper buffer but you know the open space and I think that might be the again I haven't studied it but being right on the corner of a public road and perhaps traffic being at a significant more volume than it was like Pro pop proper buffer people are going to be hosting family reunions in that gazebo there's going to be kids running around people are going to be tossing the Frisbee to their dog if it's on the corner of a road proper buffer so people AR the street I appreciate that comment that's a great Point commissioner Lind um I will say that there's an 85t structure set book set book setback uh for the other homes this doesn't quite look like it's meeting that 85 foot setback but there's certainly room I think to shifted a bit to the east to make that meet that same step back would that alleviate that concern do you think 8 or something that wouldn't you know a kid wouldn't just be able to access the road something that would buffer it or stop them from doing that sure is there buffer plantings required there's no buffer plantings required I haven't um we could require some addition we could ask for some of the Landscaping to be located in that area well I just want to use some caution as far as sight lines too you're planting it to conceal it you're also stopping people from seeing um you know so there's there's a planning element if you're doing that so we don't necessarily want it to be a buffer uh like one of our heavy buffers but we could probably use uh maybe our setback um buffer something along those lines where it's about every 100 feet there's one over Story one coniferous two under story and some shrubs if you advance a slide or two I thought there were some plantings along that edge yeah it maybe it was the other direction yeah does look like there are some planting a little on one corner yeah yeah so it does look like there are some plantings um so we could certainly make sure that in the Landscaping plan we're showing some a variety of plantings in that area I um all we in um I don't see the public benefit being enough to vote for the Pud okay I'd like to make a motion to deny this application okay um do we have a second that second I haven't given my opinion yet yep I would like to discuss yep that's where I'm going next um any further discussion Jeremy so I like a lot about this application