anybody all right would someone like to make a motion to approve the minutes yes correct so second and all those in favor all right open Forum we do have one person in the audience if you would like to speak you're more than welcome please vot to the podium state your name and your address for the record if you'd like to oh okay Dean 9310 be Road or of the council members um I did want to speak real quick if I'm not out of line please tell me um the Leon's calendars and those kind of things we were told that people were wanting their free time and stuff so we said it wasn't necessary but most certainly do it if you want to keep doing um planing commission is the same way um for me I go to the planning commissions I think hear me is out tonight and stuff but if it's something you want one of us for c meeting please let Des know show get in touch with one of us if there's something specific you want or if you want this to continue with you guys let just know she'll pass it on us okay um as a citizen one thing in Jessica I don't know if you got a comment or or somebody got in touch with you I was in a Tuesday um excuse me Monday morning and there was a lady here that just recently moved in Amai homeless across the street from the park wanting to know when there will be a crosswalk and an entrance to the park so she could walk over from m& H I told her it's unknown so if I'm wrong I'm sorry um but I did recommend that she load the grand kids up and put them in the car and take them over there she she got she may or may not be online I don't know if anybody's online but she was she was a little foot off that she's moved next to a park and then can't even walk to yeah I just told her about master plan and stuff that's a big reason I wanted to see it um I want to hear you guys and and understand what's going on so thank you for talking letting me talk and please if you have a question my number is my private number call leave a message I will back I'll answer anything you guys tell okay thank thank you appreciate it where was that across uh across 10 to Creek Reserve the the Island's put in but it's not strip which is a county issue I believe and then if you were to get all across there and try to go through the fence you're going to fall down a hill and it's it's just not cond doce to The Pedestrian any other public don't do online anymore right correct one else in the audience we'll keep moving presentations we have none so unfinished business City Park remaster update I can introduced uh so this is Gabrielle grindy she is with hkg she's been our consultant on the project so her and I have been working very closely along with Stant and ortell so stantech is helping with the engineering and then ortell is helping us with the architecture so the building plans come from them um and at this point we'll kind of walk through what we've been up to what we've got so far uh any updates from information that's in your packet because we have gotten new building layouts um since the packet went out last week we've actually gotten two I think um so because there were some areas where we wanted to adjust it a little bit so those will be reflected in the presentation otherwise here's Gabby and you're just looking for feedack back on designs layouts that sort of thing yep yeah so tonight is uh an update on progress what we've been doing over the past couple months we are planning to come back in September yes so the goals of tonight are I'll give an update on the project schedule go through detailed description of the site plan and some of the individual areas and features in the park uh looking at the recreation facilities the concept that Orel developed for the building and then the trails and then I'll touch on the cost estimate update where we're at with that and then return back to the project schedule and next steps so uh we're planning to come back in a month with an updated plan but please feel free to interrupt me as I go through this if you have any comments or questions and I'll take notes as we go along so this slide is uh um repeat of what was shown a few months ago on our progress starting last December so we did some site analysis working with staff visit the site looking at a lot of different um considerations and factors that on the site that may have impacts as they're improved we developed some highle Concepts which are shown on the right so that was the last presentation which was in May April or May so since then we have moved forward with schematic design uh this slide shows the design design process uh starting from site analysis project programming so that's identifying what the goal of the project is what problem are we trying to solve uh what what could the park support so we went through that exercise identifying what the key desires were from Council from staff from Park commission based on previous work uh over the past couple years and then the concept planning is where we put all of those uh features and program elements on paper on the plan to identify what can actually fit and how it can work together and then we developed the preferred Concepts so that's where we started from in May June with this process and right now we're in the schematic design phase so we've been working with stantech closely we got a detailed survey of the site uh they've been helping us with some of the uh feasibility and reality check of our design so we do the Creative Design part and then stantex said no you can't do that or yes you can do this based on all the rules regulations storm water considerations and Grading we have soil borings uh that I think are being done this week so we should hopefully have our report in a couple weeks telling us uh what we need to do in terms of foundation for the trails the building the courts to make sure that they're built properly and can withstand uh the the existing conditions of the site uh and then we will be um determining the project delivery Approach at the end of this phase so in the next month to six weeks we will be looking at the design in detail and determining will this project be bid all as one total project in the spring or will we split it up into the building will be one project uh the site elements will be another project or we could look at some vendor quoting approaches so like the playground that could be purchased separately through the state contract by the city uh some the splash pad elements could be purchased separately so we could break it out into a few different projects in order to make it uh the best deal for the city to try to get the best price on everything so in September October we we're planning to finish that schematic design phase and then we would ask for approval to continue working on the design Development and Construction documentation so you can see above those um M on here here it is uh so in engineering terms they talk about preliminary design and final design and uh 30% design set is essentially schematic design 60% design set is what they call the design development so that's when we get into more detail with the materials the sizing the quantities uh identifying the vendor products the permitting and then the 100% design set is when we have the construction documentation so that's the full manual with all the the specifications on the full detailed uh construction documents that then that is used to um bid the project up so um that's a lot of detail so that's all pretty standard way of doing business these days this is nothing you're not you're not breaking any new ground on how you go about this process right plain vanilla regular regular order of business yeah the only thing that may be different is the project delivery approach so actually with some of our cities lately we've been doing construction manager approach and that's where uh we would work with a construction manager um to give them the construction documents and then that construction manager reaches out to vendors and contractors separately to try to get quotes and then put together a team so they act somewhat like a general contractor uh that approach we have found for parks with buildings and many different features like this isn't always the most efficient it usually works really well if there's like a big development or building project um sometimes it works well for Parks sometimes not we can talk about that more at the next meeting when we're determining what the project delivery approach is and I could provide a case study on why you wouldn't want to do it good to know good to know uh so a little bit more detail about the dates uh tonight we're here at the parks and trails commission over the next month we'll be taking the feedback that we hear tonight to update our schematic design layout work with stantech to update the grading and storm water considerations and then work with ortel to update the Building Concept uh we've been working with three reverse Park District over the past several months to coordinate how the Diamond Lake Regional Trail fits into the park and that will continue over the next couple months and then we're planning to come back on September 19th with an updated schematic design cost estimate and discussion of project delivery methods and then seek approval to move forward with the next phases of design and we're planning to present that based on recommendation from this commission to the city council at the October 10th meeting so that is within the current scope that we have approved and then if we get approval to continue we will work over the fall and winter on the design development construction documents coming back to this commission at least two more times for feedback on more of the detailed design and then hopefully going to City Council in March or sometime in the spring for approval to bid with bid opening later in the spring and Construction in the summer and fall so this is the updated site plan uh if you remember the preferred concept plan there were bubbles that identified elements so now we've gotten into more of the detail with the dimensions um laying out the trails and the site features uh more precisely so we've identified potentially Phase One Construction which would be 2025 the multi-use field area on the the West so the Southwest part of Cl rela the parking lot which takes up a large portion of the site uh the playground and splash pad which are SE right here between the southeast Ballfield and the ridge in the middle of the park and then a new park building which is seen right here at the northeast corner of the parking lot and six pickle ball cords which are south of the soccer fields so let's say with the trail that goes around the exterior of the park do you have a proposal if that's part of phase one or phase two it's kind of some of the questions this morning that's the one that connects out to that row that's still to be determined so that is the alignment that we've been working with with three rivers to be the Regional Trail we have given them a preliminary cost estimate of almost a million dollars for constructing that entire Trail so uh they are identifying it in their budget for next year but we're still working through some of the details they want us to do a little more design work they want us to get the soil report the Geotech report back so that can give us some more information on um the profile of the trail because that could affect the cost a lot seeing that there are hydric soils here and a few Wetland areas that will'll be Crossing so uh we're working with them over the next month two to determine if that will be a phase one project because the city would build it pay for it and then be reimbursed by Three Rivers so if Three Rivers determines that they don't want to include that in their budget then it would likely be a longer term project so that Three Rivers budget set to cover the entire loop around the outside all the way from connecting the two roads so as part of the agreement uh we did an agreement with them for a uh the Diamond Lake Regional Trail that north south one so as part of that that would be the requirement okay so just because you could go a lot straighter of a path to say yeah that's how that's what we agree this is with their feedback so don't worry we're in the clear they the staff from Three Rivers walked to the site and they agreed that we looked at several different options through the park including some pretty short alignments that would um go through here or also along the creek here so it would have to cross the creek once or twice yeah and staff agreed that this alignment around the edge of the park was the most enjoyable and provided the best experience in terms of regional Trails we are still evaluating the County Road 50 Crossing though so that's why that's not shown on the M as then that has to connect to the trail where we cross at 50 yeah okay would the the spot where we show the trail crossing over to the development where there's no crosswalk yet that would be the spot where a crosswalk would will probably go yeah okay yeah and well we are limited to that uh that Crossing we did ask them about exploring other Crossings but they said this is the site this is where it's Crossing so there are some grading challenges in here because of the steep slope so uh and Three Rivers has some strict standards as far as the slopes for their trails and the radi for the curves so it's it is tight fitting it in there we might need retaining walls we're trying to avoid that but uh looking at how we can fill in that slope and then cross the creek the most efficient way possible while also meeting their standards and it's probably the most desirable to keep it close to that intersection so it's yeah not happen in at least in that neighborhood not have to walk up in all the road what did they say about the trail along the creek kind of we hadu about that at some point but is that not too hard to do or it is too hard to do well it would require some boardwalks and they have also very high standards for boardwalks at Three River they need to be drivable with a truck so pretty beefy boardwalk and there are a lot of other features in there so it's a busy area and they said they prefer the trail to be in a less busy area around the edge of the park rather than straight through the Middle where it could encounter lots of other activities and we had talked on the North side that Creek runs right along where we're planning so that was the area and previous discussions if you could get that trail on the North side to run as close to that Creek to take advantage of it for that walk that would be a good option too this one looks pretty far off set from that well we don't own this landed either but just to the north of the baseball field where's that oh Creek runs right through it does yeah yeah it's very ni you can't see it it's a great spot yeah and I have zoomed in um images of this plan too uh but we are showing the tennis courts in the amphitheater as potential alternates or Phase 2 construction due to the cost that we're looking at the the tennis courts in our previous concept were shown down in this parking lot area but due to the the desire to have at least 300 spaces in the parking lot that takes up more space and we didn't want to impact this larger open space field so that's why we move the tennis courts um up to this location would you take out the current ones in the phas one though not leave I think they are they are being removed along with the adding cages this summer by our Public Works team okay does any of the new construction include any updates to the ball fields themselves or fences or any amenities around the ball fields just the trail for now oh yeah we are showing a um smaller outfield on the Southeast field due to the proximity to the playground and so this would be updated as a youth field so would have a smaller INF field and either a temporary fence or a new fence Outfield fence that is much shorter than today still playable but more like maybe me field okay okay and then the destination playground I know we had talked about those different fun ideas is that that still Pi considered okay I thought okay maybe I just the description sound great the idea of taking to the hills and stuff there's more information in the slid than there is in your package because there were some updates and we were waiting for some um new layouts and just up updated models so don't worry forward to that all right hoping we didn't get rid of that all together so so continuing on so this is um showing the multi-use fields in a little more detail we have overlaid a Cricket uh field on here with the pitch in the middle just to show how it fits so it would go a little to the north into the Northeast field but there is no fence along that um third Baseline right now so that would just fit the north of the pickle ball courts and then these are U10 Fields shown for size so there could be a number of different layouts different sizes of soccer fields and then this could could also be used for event space as well yeah so the parking lot is um at least twice as big as what is there today but it does have several islands and it uh showing the paved layout with uh storm water in a Central Area we've curved the driveway entrance the driveway is shown at the existing location um but we've curved the entrance just for a a little more interesting experience coming into the site and so then there are not lights going straight into the building so you come around and then there's drop off area and accessible parking right here uh for people going directly to the building or showing a crossing here from this parking lot uh We've also identified a few different areas of the parking lot that could allow for snow plowing only some areas for winter use seeing that this building is planned to be used year round this closer parking lot could be flowed and then the western side of the parking lot could be used for snow storage uh we're identifying a connection to the Regional Trail in the southwest corner of the parking lot and this would be temporary seeing that the parking lot over by the existing warming house is identified as the trail head parking lot but improving that is a phase and we don't yet know where the crossing of Comm Ro 50 will be yet so it's possible The Crossing could be here or it could be to the east we don't know yet so we're just identifying that if the Regional Trail is built next year would tie in to the parking lot here what drove the 300 plus parking space estimate is that based on the size of the park and the I can speak to that so um currently we have had staff count the number of cars in the lot and it was over 300 per soccer nights um the parking lot that is currently in place gets a lot of use it is full almost every Tuesday and Thursday in the summer and then Mondays in well and then you add in Mondays for baseball uh with this the lot itself when it's paved will look and be bigger um that's because then you finally get the lines that help accommodate some of the parking so the size of the lot is bigger but the amount that it can hold is about the same it's just more organized yeah and I was going to ask is that would there be like a way in and out separately in this plan because I know one of the things I've noticed at that is like when that time change for those fields there's a lot of traffic all at once so I think that's worth considering when deciding It's tricky because we're working with henpen County as well because it is their County Road um and part of that is managing turn lane expectations and turn Lanes can get very pricey as well um and the number of entrances and exits has been a discussion point with them and it might be tricky to increase that yeah and it maybe it's just one there but if there's a way to make it like within the actual parking lot a path where you can go in one way and out the other and we could Co you could put a block or something just it's worth considering even if we have that limitation there might be an option to make it not a nightmare we do have yeah and in and out you can go in and out at the top correct and then just out at the bottom just yeah something like that I don't know if you could see that there's a second erress that right there so okay um but we are showing the turn lanes that were requested by the company yeah 300 people a lot of people just get in and out and that's assuming everyone's leaving at the same time I try and stick your soccer so everyone doesn't leave at the same time or come at the same time but I get exactly what you're talking about Road can get very busy after those nights uh so the next feature showing here is the pickle ball court so we are showing six pickle ball courts we've laigh them out in a East West linear layout and then we're showing two shade structures in a little waiting seating area to the South so the entrance would be on the south side for all these courts so that soccer balls wouldn't run into people as they're waiting to get into Eco ball courts and there is space if this is a high use program there is space to extend it to the North which would impact the the soccer open space area but that is um a potential desired the playground and splash pad is built is uh identified to be built into the the west side of this Ridge that is existing in in the park today uh so again we're hoping to get that soils information back soon which will help us identify what is in here this could all be fill from when these fields were built many years ago uh then we're showing the the building adjacent to the splash pad in order to accommodate the mechanical system needed for the splash pad and uh the trails lead up to an area that would be shaded we' either use um shading uh shade umbrellas or plant more trees in this area to provide shade for parents as they're with their children at the playground Splash is that building elevated versus it's hard to tell with the old elevation lines what's the elevation of that building to the playground and it's about an8 foot difference okay so we have a section and some models to show on the the next few slides um so we did look at the different systems for the splash pad in terms of pass through recirculation and based on um several different factors we are recommending a recirculation system for the splash pad that's mostly due to water that the city purchases from Maple Grove today and then also the soils in the park in terms of treating all the pass through water it seems like it would be more efficient to have a recirculation system which is a higher upfront cost uh but in the long term it should work better in terms of Maintenance and operations however it does require a certified pool operator to check the levels of um chemicals in the water on a daily basis does that change then what like the chemicals in the water those two systems like a pass through would be pass through is half water without chlorine and then the recirculation system is essentially like cool water so it has to be treated so would we have potentially the ability to add like RSE off State or like showers to this plan if that was the case or something like that included we could look at that like outdoor showers or indoor showers yeah just you see them at the Lakes and stuff just a pole with a rinse off station just thinking if it's chlorine water and all that and we go down that path it might be worth I to speak for a second why a recirculation system so I was against it uh until recently we did a pass through system in shaki when we we built that system uh the disadvantage of a pass through system if you have higher volume of water use um there we had been able to broker a deal with the shop public utility so the water cost wasn't as much of a factor and then we were able to use the water and some rain Gardens went through drain tile down to a collection Pond and they used it to irrigate worked great for the last 3 or 4 years when it was pretty dry this year when it's been so wet uh I recently had spoke had dinner with a friend and he told me about some problems they having so I drove over there and looked at it and I was sending pictures to JCB at 7 o'clock in the morning on Sunday when I was there uh because I said okay I changed my mind and what it happened is um you get the UVA rays that help dry out and then kill out any back acteria when it's been a drought season when it's been so wet there was mold everywhere it wasn't drying out which then becomes a health concern yeah uh a potential Health concern but it looks horrible so so under the amenities and then there was this green film Circle all the way around it and uh so I wrote her and I said okay I changed my mind uh because the safety of the kids becomes Paramount the reason I avoided a recirculation system as Gabby said you have to have a CPO certified pool operator it's kind of a pain in the butt uh and and managing the chemicals is a problem but nothing like having an amenity that looks gross and is potentially a safety hazard so I changed my mind and you're allowed to do that but but it took me it took me five years to get there I mean when we put it in it worked really great under the conditions until the conditions changed and so so recognizing that uh we corpin is a wet community and that is not going to change go back to the last slide theall CS yeah so you said if we expanded we'd go north into the we can go west and East too right but okay because then if we want to keep those courts we could go a little more to the west but could we just curve that trail around just slightly or is that like on the edge of the Wetland well the so the blue lines you can see on the plan that's the Wetland delineation line from the survey um we are challenged by storm water because the soils are so hydric here there likely won't be much infiltration so we need bonding area so that um that's what's shown in the this area we'll and then this area to the fo parking lot we will likely need more than that so we may need to realign this Trail a little closer to the Wetland to expand that storage area or look at some other options to accommodate storm water so these courts are paved so that's impervious surface so we need to accommodate storm water for those as well okay I'm just thinking if we had more pickle ball cards or tennis cards we're going to run up to that trail but we just curved it just slightly more probably two more so okay yeah we can look at the grading and are you thinking of showing that as a like expansion area for next phase or within this phase no not this phase I think we're kind of using all the resources yeah if we do end up doing that trail or part of that trail then we should do it now so that when phase two comes around oh shoot we should have moved that tra something all right so then um looking a little closer at the playground we're showing three containers so a five is the splash pad container and then six shows a container for 2 to 5y- Old equipment and then a container for five to 12y old equipment we're still actively working on the grading and the Trails so right now we're showing stairs in this Center Trail between the two playground areas uh with a slope grassy vegetated area on the upside of the splash pad in this smaller playground and then this Trail would be Ada accessible with 5% or less grade so we're looking at this Trail right here to see if we actually need steps or if this could provide the Ada access and then maybe this Trail could go away um but the the idea is that we would have these three containers with the trails around them and then four is showing storm water so again this area may need to get larger depending on what comes back in the soils report and then what Stant Tech advises us on for storm water capacity needs so we're identifying um we've looked at some themes for the playground including the farm agricultural themed equipment uh Incorporated some Hillside slides potentially a bridge so so um this line right here is showing a bridge so this Trail would be up high and then the equipment would be down low so there may be a small retaining wall in here to accommodate the grade and then the bridge would be ad accessible up to this upper level of the um playground equipment this equipment is shown for scale um this is not necessarily the exact equipment we would have in this space but this is showing what could fit in the space uh then we're also identifying some climbing bolts ERS and folders for seaw walls so here's precedent image of what some Hillside slides could look like we've done this on a few different Parks recently and there's a number of different ways that you can have the slope next to the slide there just can't be any vertical uh impediments along the slide that a kid could hit themselves on but you can have natural vegetation uh you could have this one shows some Boulders along the edge of the slide you could also use port in place surface or AST Turf so there's a number of different surfaces that could work there and then this is an image this is from waterf playay actually of a splash pad that has uh some Boulders in it and has some steps along it so this is a precedent for what could how the splash pad could be incorporated so this doesn't have any um elevated features in this area this is just like a flat Plaza with fountains or spout water spouts but then you can see over on the left there's some elevated vertical features uh so this is a crosssection cutting through in the bottom left you can see the red line cutting through the plan so looking from the um from the West toward the building you can see the how the this 5 to 12 Play container which is a little over 5,000 square ft uh the trail coming down Hillside slide 2 to 5year Old equipment about 2700 sare feet area and then the splash pad which is a little bit higher at about 2600 square feet and then you can see the building elevated in the background Jessica do you know how many square feet or well [Music] flower not but I can find out uh so then we did some modeling of this and SketchUp in and these are some of the exports showing what this could look like with the splash pad here at the bottom this building is um what ortell gave us with a previous so we've been working with ortell over the past few weeks and we've gone through several iterations of our uh the building layout the floor plan and then also the model so this is the most recent model since they did this model we had them update the floor plan which is slightly different um they did show a green roof which is a pretty expensive item in a building and so we likely not have a green roof but this is the building shown this would likely be a little bit bigger than what we end up with in the final plan uh so you can see the the trails going around the splash pad the stairs right here this is a grassy slope with a hillside slide uh some stairs coming down this path and then this is the large 5 to2 container again showing some of that equipment just for scale here's another view from above from Over the parking lot uh this would be looking down from the patio on the west side of the building toward the 5 to 12 or 2 to 5y- Old play area so on the right side you can see the hillside slide and then the left side is where some of those Boulders would be incorporated as a seat wall to accommodate the grade from coming down from the splash p and to answer your previous question approximately 5400 square feet is the size of the container for wildfower park that's the part that's chipped and that's just the where the wood chips are in the play it's a pretty big area and that includes the two to five and the five for that yeah okay thank you I really like how the hills kind of have a natural containment of the especially the little liid one where it's yeah it's a nice feature to take advantage of the topography so there aren't many heels in Cork and are the stairs necessary or like critical for design I'm just thinking people with strollers um consideration of how so that's why we have the longer pathway around here to have that 5% grade because that's what's required for ad accessibility for wheelchairs but um we might be able to grade this out and remove the stairs on this path I don't think we could remove the stairs on this path because it's pretty steep sure coming down here answer my other question about the other path necessary but now that makes sense thanks uh so for the splash pad we have reached out to a few vendors there is um Aquatics which is part of LSI in Delano there's Vortex which is out of Canada and then there's a company water play who we've not worked with but uh they are also out of Canada I think one is Montreal one's British Columbia Vancouver do you remember just um but we've been talking we've been trying to get input from other cities um in terms of the vertical features because when those features break and you have to order new ones if it if we go with either Vortex or water play they're farther away so we have to take that into consideration um so there uh pros and cons with each of the different vendors we're also determining um on this splash pad if it will be all vertical elements or if the a portion of it would be just the plaza area that would be flat so in when it's not in use it could just be a open space area um so if there's any questions or thoughts on the vertical elements or style of the splash pad let us know there are so many options for vertical elements we I think Jess has a whole catalog of all the options so we could do farm theme I can do this type of theme there are a number of different I have more than one catalog you guys would like to see it and this is kind of the first thing you would see coming up to the park from the parking lot besides the building right the theme might be important to incorporate we also talked about um this you know with the water being adjacent to these two Pathways there will be some spill over so there is a possibility we could take a portion of this and make it vegetated area so that the splash pad is um a little more isolated from the trails to contain that water if you don't need this other Trail would you kind of you have that room to go to that's another thing that we've talked about too we would get rid of that sloped Trail if we y if we can make this work with the grades and make it 5% then we won't need this Trail to provide the ad accessible Gathering what if we got rid of that middle Trail because we have stairs there and then the slope Trail on the right and then I know there's it's nice that separation but you could go right up to those boulders with additional park space versus I mean there's a lot of walking space here I yeah we could do that just seems like a lot then you have the one up to the north you can't even see that it goes around well I have a question about access to just direct access from the parking lot uh right right now you have to go further up to the north uh around that that collection Pond it might be helpful to have instead of having to go all the way up to the building to get access be able to get access off of that sidewalk that's adjacent to the parking lot on the West Side uh it's the playground concept slide that's got the the building yeah so that's right here yeah we could provide some steps so getting that kind of access because people are going to do it anyway yeah so if we put it there we've created an access point otherwise people are just going to walk through the plants particularly when they're small yeah uh particularly little people because they want to get to the splash pad they're not going to go like oh I've got to walk all the way around here like no they're going to be straight path and to your point this is a lot of a lot seen that picture that's a lot of sidewalking there's more side off that there is par play Space it seems like we're we're going to be able to get around just fine I think we eliminated one of those three or four hour you ought to count on and I know Park is probably more expensive than just Paving a sidewalk but that's the point of being here so I would encourage you to try to get rid of one of those depending on what the the needs are with the slope I don't think green green Ro so that'll save you simar yeah that was one of the discussion points today what's the what's the point of a green r well it so the roof on the main portion of the building would have a lot of water run off and so that would um absorb the water coming off that larger Roofus versus having it go into storm water P but we further discussed possibly lowering that roof because it is quite high and I think you'll see that in a further slide um which would hopefully eliminate some of that need for the green roof um so this is again some play equipment this equipment is play World equipment uh that we got as when we reached out to vendors to get ideas for some of the equipment so this is showing what could fit in the two to 5-year-old space and then this is showing A View From the building looking north towards that bridge that goes into the a 5 to 12 year old play structure it's a little closer image I really like the idea of taking advantage that Hill it's and this is showing down can see we're limited by the people in the modeling system she bur heels figure out Hannah our modeler she loves to put the people in and makeup stories and then this is another image from the West looking towards the 5 to 12y old um play structure and you can see the t-ball fields in the background they're still pretty visible too so it's it's a nice little two for one if you got little littles and sit right there in in between yeah and I could see that Hill being a popular to place to sit so keep those Boulders seem like something like that to make it easy an easy place to sit rather than having yeah unfortunately most of those trees are ash trees up on the hill so we'd like to save as many of them as possible but that is probably beond yeah uh so then this is looking at the front of the building uh the entrance there again the building we end up with will likely be smaller than this but this is the aesthetic that we're looking at we give them dire the architect direction for agrarian um low low roofs prairie style uh this is the back side of the building looking towards the t-ball field oh is it elevated like that yeah so we're still trying to determine exactly where that building sits and if there will be a deck off the back or if the patio will sit into the grade and not need the over but the idea is that it will be up higher so you can look down at the t-all Z that's why we have those bars around it the rail yeah and I don't I I would hope that it will be a patio so that it won't be an elevated deck um but this is yeah this was the design that we got from them most recently uh so then again looking north of the play area to where the tennis courts are currently located showing um them being rebuilt in the similar location so this would we' need to accommodate the trails both to the South and North the Regional Trail and the Park trails to best fit with this location so there are some potential um accommodations or modifications we can make to this design to help it fit a little better and if this is a first phase uh we can talk about how they can be designed to be multi-use if there's desire for for instance adding basketball hoop to it or something like that um and there were discussions of doing the basketball hoop in the ice rings too so if that's something that you guys just want to wait on I mean the tennis courts might come later anyways but the ones currently there will be taken out what do we make a choice on well that's something that we can design so what we did in a recent project Ino that actually had really poor soils um we designed the whole park Improvement project with tennis courts and the tennis courts needed a pretty large soil uh base or modification in order to accommodate the poor soils there and so we put it in the bid but identified it as an alternate item and we got the quotes back and it was pretty high cost so they ended up not building the tennis cour so that's something that we could just design through construction documents and then determine when we get bids if it gets built or not or we can make a decision earlier if what we can I just GNA say so right now it's what we're identifying as potential phase two would be the tennis courts the trail and what was the other one the ampthor amp I say it might make sense for that to be faced to if we can find even a better if like the soil is part of the problem might be worth considering alternative locations or yeah we we were looking at um the Southwest Air Park we were talking with stantic about that but there's concerns about the storm water and being close to the wetlands there so yeah we we're still evaluating voting tennis courts oh yeah that'd be innovative well might not be the way you design but might be what you get playing fence all right so then moving on to the building so the I think the upper left one is the one you got in your packet yeah and then the one in the middle here is the new design we just got today so we had a meeting with um ortel to talk about some of the concerns we had with the upper left floor plan most notably the cost being pretty high uh but the we want to get feedback mainly on the program so the program for the building is that it would have one large main Gathering space that would be the the large room shown on the plan that would be yearound space for 100 people sit sitting at tables so use 15 Square fet per person so if you have standing room or um audience SE or classroom seating you could accommodate more people than that but um they're 15 square feet per person is um conservative or table estimate uh the outdoor Gathering space would be covered that's adjacent to the indoor space that would accommodate 50 to 75 people so if you have a large event in both spaces you could have almost 200 people and we'll have a bigger version on of this on the next slide so you'll be able to see it a little better but this is the overview yeah so then this is um in the upper left one this is the main Gathering space the outdoor Gathering space a catering kitchen storage four outdoor uh family restrooms and then two indoor men's women's restrooms and then a mechanical and storage space over here in the new plan um I'll just zoom into that one more thing to mention on this slide this new plan is 4350 square feet internally so when we were doing Concepts we were looking at up to 7500 square feet um but the costs for that are quite high so um looking at around 4,000 square fet so this is the plan we just got this morning uh the main Gathering area is a little bit smaller but it's also uh one rectangle versus the other one had the cutout with the kitchen in it it was a little longer uh so this shows a catering kitchen right here shows three outdoor restrooms this one is a little larger in order to accommodate the adult changing station which is a requirement part of code there's a women's restroom men's restroom drinking fountain and mechanical and storage area so we need to determine as part of the splash pad how much space needs for the recirculation system um but then some of this would be building Mechanicals and then some of it would be for uh furniture or other storage so the overall map is kind two buildings but this would be the splash pad mechanics would be in here not like a second yeah the desire is to put them in this building so that there's not like a separate shed yeah in the the overall Park one it looked like there was a kind of a shed or something oh oh it was because there was a hallway at oh that was the previous yes there was a hallway between the outside like the building itself and then the outdoor restrooms oh so there was just it was just kind of not connected um so that was one of the updates was to just this everything's in this correct yep so it looks different on the concept of overall it would be more rectangular shape yeah the only thing sorry yeah the only thing I'd say about that is is to run that Gathering space uh so you're not like usually you're going to have tables on big rollers uh ensuring that we have double doors like where that water Fountain this yeah because otherwise we're destroying doors with rollers for tables and chairs and those sorts of things and so having the double doors open into a open space well-intentioned volunteers will destroy it I I like this a lot better um Jess and I just and I had talked about this uh the the only other thing I'd say too is with a catering kitchen uh if people are going to cater for an event having an outside access so they don't have to come into the building yeah uh is is pretty important uh but but how you do that too double door then becomes pretty important uh so that they can get carts and stuff through uh and I I acknowledge that it gets a little bit hanky um but I like this a lot better than the previous design I'd be C ious to see what the rending look like in terms of of the aesthetic from the outside with this because it it's a big box the other one had more character so how do you dress up a big box so it looks like cool is the cering kitchen just countertops and power and some water or is it actually planed to be anything more than that it would not be it would not have stoves in it it would be like counters and a sink for washing I would advocate for not even a dishwasher do not want to dishwasher so so spent a lot of money on a dishwasher for a previous C catering kitchen yeah never got used and and it's still they'll be out of there before they would want to use that yeah um but but deep sink is important for people both for food preparation but also for sanitary conditions uh and then probably some sort of storage uh cold Temp Storage and freezer that's what we were just talking about so as part of it we intended to have and I think it's shown in one of the first Renditions just like a little storage area in the catering kitchen um so that would also be another thing that we'd like to include in there reason that becomes really important like if you show up and you've rented it to have your family event you don't want Kake to melt before you get to celebrate uh or or your Burgers to Tha out before you're ready to whatever the case maybe your popsicles so is this space big enough to hold the salt seminar and a few of the other things that we do the year the what seminar salt seminar or we do the salt training truck safety yeah okay that that that worked too um no where do we well I don't think we'd want to move truck safety from where it is because you got so many Hands-On opportunities where it's at public works okay okay y but another Precinct becomes really helpful yep uh in in other City events like a city hall meeting yes a town hall meeting so to speak leag of Women Voters Le Women Voters yeah yeah September 30th two calendars fire MC 60 70 people for the classroom portion of it yeah for the classroom for the weekly portion say I don't know what the gun rules are at the for the five weeks number of opportunities open space like this absolutely with the uh back area where it used to be the community room back there um firearm safety has been having to find alternative locations so there's definitely a need and a desire across different departments within the city and I think that it would be very well utilized and general events you know and programming and so I I don't want to throw a wrench into things but um but I'm going to just as an exercise for us to think I'm not in favor of these but it might be a good exercise for us to think about if we could viate like break this space up so that we have multiple opportunities to rent it uh I I had thought about it until I'm just looking at it as a box uh as I'm looking at it as a box uh to the point I I'm not a big fan of the collapsible wall they're super expensive they're not user friendly they don't block sound uh but if you're trying to have multiple people two two groups of 50 uh how often are you going to have a group of 100 uh but that gives you the capacity uh when you need it but then it also gives you some flexibility if you don't and the reason I say that is um nelisha who's our new assistant City administrator was just at at the curling Center in chasa and I was involved in that project when I was working in chasa and she asked what I thought about it and that was one of the biggest mistakes they made for their Event Center is they didn't create that capacity and as a result it's hard to rent the space because there aren't too many folks that need a space that large and they don't want to have an event that feels like nobody showed up nobody showed up so if you're having an event for 25 people you don't want to be in a room that accommodates a hundred yeah that makes sense uh and and I realized it just came up this morning so that's why um but I I also I installed a collapsable wall at the community center after the fact and we finally just started using it as a Baseline is two rooms and booking it is two rooms because it's a pain in the butt to take it down and it doesn't work well something always get somebody gets hurt or something gets clunky or you lose the crank thing that you need to open it I've worked at a community center and it is that thing gets lost but it does add extra purposes for the rooms which is very beneficial the way that this room's currently oriented in order to have access to the bathroom is not easy way to b space it might be worth thinking about is there a way to make it feel smaller if we needed to like that might be a different solution than trying to make it to spaces is there a way is there a way to make it more intimate if it isn't 100 people that isn't sacrificing something else even if it's just a yeah so with the previous concept we did so we directed uh the architect to design a space based on the needs and the program desired and then they designed a building and then we said how much do you think this will cost and they s 4.25 to 5 million we said okay that's higher than the budget can you identify some potential cost saving areas and their first recommendation was make it smaller and then they talked about the outdoor space so I'll just show some of the images of the previous Design This was the model and it was in the other um images as well um make the roof and the volume of the outdoor space smaller so this this looks quite large when we first saw this we thought it looked pretty large and the roof was really high so they said decrease that volume we said that's a good idea yes and then um but that wouldn't necessarily make the capacity of the outter space smaller just lower the roof uh and change the roof line also removing the green roof uh the restrooms we are limited by code for the certain number of restrooms but we did remove one in the the concept that we just were talking about so there are only three outdoor restrooms instead or yeah three inste four um and then combining all of the bathrooms into more of a one location versus kind of having them spread out a little more to have all of the plumbing in a centralized location so this was a view from the this is a view from the East so we thought that view of building looks much larger than we thought it should look so um part of our Direction was to change that roof line make it look a little smaller yeah that looks like something that should be along Gold Lake North I said it looked like a Band Shell to me um not so much like a outdoor patio space it just seemed very big for I don't want to say big for corkrin but a little tooti like yeah I was think when we were talking about for it be nice to somehow bring in like the farm house Farm Barn feel to this that's why doesn't feel like that is part of the reason for the wood doesn't very modern yeah it doesn't quite bring that feel this big there too many angles glad WECT instead of what it Wass that fly up in the air yeah by more of a farm look what specifically mean that what like what direction can we give them well maybe like instead of a pitch Dr do a barn R I don't know what they call that but round rounded top I don't know what that brick is but can you complete the wood all the way down I like that style the from the previous picture I thought that look kind of cool KOA or no KOA you know like a a windmill I mean that that's something that but it's just becomes aesthetic it's useless I did someone say a Weather Vein as well weather ve cheap exactly if you could just like what are the things that Inspire things yeah and like want have to look as much like a a Farm building as water treatment plant looks like a Farm building right even the wood it's almost like too clean and tight or too many or something about it isn't feel pain it red or something I was gonna say it might be the color modern so so one of the things that was on a rendition that J JCB did not like was they had a large window that so I used the phrase heo does that mean anything to anyone else she had no idea what I was talking about goes in and out yeah so so but but a window that that kind of looks like it would be accessed for however it's just bringing light in yeah now the disadvantage or the danger of doing that is you don't get to control how the light comes into your space and it could potentially be disruptive so if somebody wants to uh exercise projection capability something like that so I've encountered that or now you got sun coming into the speaker space and so we're spending a lot of money after the fact trying to figure out how do we scream the light if you if you go to Elm Creek there a ski shell it's a beautiful space it's all windows looking over the down area but if you have somebody in there who wants to use large screen TV during the day you can't see it right yeah that's so so maybe instead of actually doing this maybe it's faades right with a little like yeah you can have a little wood Arm come out with even like a nice yeah look more hous like yeah that's why I didn't like it I didn't like it to be more residential less commercial I kind of liked it but it's your fault I call so one of my concerns is always I've been I've been deep involved in any building projects but a lot of times to save money you end up not really paying quite enough attention to the aor handling system and so then nobody can hear yeah that we have to design in a system where old people and small children can can hear what's going on and that's it fairly easy to do on the front end but really hard to do in a retrofit I was just at a cool cool looking barn on uh Tuesday night that could potentially serve as a model suggest that maybe we all go over there for a party and hang out there was a similar building I don't know if I shared I might have shared it with you out in maybe Colorado or somewhere there was a building like this that they used Barn as an as a inspiration I thought it was had some pretty cool ideas on yeah I I shared those it's the twin twin silos building was done by yeah even their even their General Building had some that was was that the one with the playground inside of it or are you talking about an entirely different one there's the different one I think it might have been the twin silos so here's an interesting like it's not even anything on it but it looks like something's on it so it looks like there's a barn door up there but all it is is wood apply to the outside of it that gives a little character rural character rural yeah so are they going to redo these designs with the more rectang we'll get another chance to comment so what's the projected lifespan for building s 50 okay yeah yeah I mean an investment well it is an investment and if you know if you if you if it's cheap now it's going to be no better than that in 30 years and with the way technology keeps changing to as much as we can to make it so the building will work as technology changes it's a good thing yeah there is a tradeoff with the when Architects do their cost estimates they look at price per square foot and we in The Architects we talked to when we interviewed some of them said 900 to 1100 per square foot um when we were talking with artell they gave range 700 to 900 square foot so I mean it really varies widely and depends on the level of materials and windows and doors and uh all the fixtures and so um the price can can change based on the input that we received but you want to build something that you want to use so you want to make sure that so it needs a loading do needs a waiting need to be able get St in yeah I don't mind the layout at all my yeah I would ask is there any way to make it little more fit with the theme that we're talking about not so modern simp like the trend itself it's a looks like a metal black or whatever like that should be wood those pillars holding up to that Rook should be some sort of wood or something something that looks like I can't do not fing enough enough okay are we looking at conventional heating or are we going to do something is not going to be we haven't even talked about that okay are you think about Sustainable Building absolutely yeah look and let's you know we can figure out a way to get some some solar panels on the roof let's do that Sol pans we SRE oops so I just took it from a for a second just a couple do you see what I mean about the the picture it's not actually a window right it gives uh and then some some other ways that you can architecturally so what I heard a couple of you say is a barn feel some folks would say this is a little too folksy uh and some folks would say this is exactly what we're going for and so and so it would be helpful for Gabby to get a A vibe from you all can you pull up that to what's it called twin silos the twin silos main building because that that one also struck me as a pretty good balance between modern and no they had a main yeah is so it's like OB playground there's not a gathering space uh so they have a gathering uh they have like a concession stand adjacent uh to it this shelter yeah so that's that's a shelter behind it and then they also have another building that's a concession but even like this where it's obviously modern materials doesn't look like wood but it still gives that feel yeah you know what that is instantly you look at this yeah and and in this case Gabby's point before that is a high roof you know so so uh when you look at the the breadth of the building that we have if we go with a roof that that's high it's going to look ginormous yeah um I think back to what you're saying though about not going too bar One Direction like it could inhibit like or it could alter what people want to do with that space like that event well I don't want to have that my event in a barn right like like it just looks too much like a barn right but Ian probably probably wouldn't sway it too much but just if you go too far yeah it could really change the way people think about it but is that also potentially like okay we want people to come to cor we want to have event in a bar because that's distinctly cor as there's lots of other op there's no Barn in [Music] gr I beat them off with a stick they want to my EV yeah I don't think this is too far it's just a little bit tweaking of the shape and you can still see so much of the sparking yeah it's not bad what about the long overhangs so those are barns don't typically have the long overhangs but I like iine so it depends on what you're talking about so a lot of a lot of barns will use that for storage of Machinery right so in fact in the community if you drive around here if you're coming down 30 uh right adjacent to Oswald Farms you'll see a barn that has has it coming off like that and they've got their equipment under it lean twos are big yeah even if you had like vertical you could have vertical poles blocking off the south side or something to prevent wind like then it might start look like a barn shape even from the yeah this is almost it I think more wood maybe or even just darker more symmetrical too he took on the right but on the left I know you can't do it exactly because the layout's different but symmetry more more symmetry then people would see it's it's a barn overhangs on both sides or just one an advantage of overhangs on both sides would be the the the North side or the left side is going to be looking over the playgrounds and stuff like that and if you have inclement weather yeah that's a place to go until it passes or a place to sit if it's really sunny and watch a shady spot long as it doesn't start to look like a lodge CU even though some of the pictures you there's going to be a fine line between like a lodge and a bar and B to it but we can I think there's a lot of room to work on the the materials and the exterior but the what we really want to get is the scale the size and then probably decide on the roof soon and then the outdoor the facade can change a lot I think with the next level of div are we in the realm of the cost that we're anticipating if we go with the smaller when you show today uh going with um I think the new floor plan using like $800 square foot would be about three and half million so so what you know what usually happens with a project that has site features in building is the building tends to get more expensive and then the site features tend to get taken off so if if there is a desire to have the bigger building um then we can accommodate that by removing other features in the part my feedback that it seems like a space for 100 people is sufficient for what we're looking for my it likely won't accommodate Weddings But it could handle graduation parties Val renewals um things of that nature Jay didn't get my call out but that's okay I did uh so it depends on the size of the wedding not not a true not a Danny wedding uh so so I got married on Saturday congratulations again it was it was is an exchange Val but it was a really cool venue uh that accommodated up to 50 people it was it was a boat house on on in wetta and that was a helpful for me like okay how much space do we really need to do the things that we need and so one thing that might be helpful when we're talking cost is the next stage of this is going to be discussing finishes you know so she's trying they're trying to verify what do you want in terms of our requirements and then aesthetically you can start to play with it uh but but your budget you know is going to go aesthetically really fast yes uh especially if you spend it all on what you want so 100 people seated is that what we're or are we going for so to put it in perspective when this space and the space adjacent to us uh we had a council meeting I think in January that was filed we had 89 people in there between the two spaces this and out there yeah so all all the chairs out there and chairs in here there's about 30 to 40 chairs once you get everybody here just for you to have perspective so this times two is is roughly 100 people or I'm sorry 160 people seated so you could cram 100 people in here it would be comfortable uh but but what's the goal so if you're having a wedding and you want to accommodate 100 people for a ceremony uh this would be huge because you're going to do row seating but if you're wanting 100 people to sit down for dinner uh that's that's currently the way that it's designed so as you think about those spaces and then another thing when when we're spending our dollars how often are you ever going to need a space that can accommodate a 100 people seated we are going to need to be able to accommodate a space that can that can have 100 to 150 people in it we talk about different training opportunities other things but are we ever going to need them at an eight top 15 square feet each so there's the potential that we might be able to shrink the envelope potentially uh in but what what's that sweet spot play Devil's Advocate too don't forget if you're running in a bank you're probably going to want food tables as well y so even if you're seating 100 people is that going to come the food table so did did any of you go out to the uh out to the Public Works building during 19 night yes so how many people could we see Jessica I I I think uh I think how many could we or how many did we have tables and chairs how many I think we had it set up I want to say 25 tables with eight at each so 200 yeah I I was going to say about 250 would would have been my guesstimate uh so so if you think about the size of that space and how much was going on there uh that isn't what we want in in terms of activation of this um but the last thing that I'll say about it we learned this with the Public Works building if you build it bigger you'll you'll potentially find ways to use it but it might not be the ways that we're talking about so the weddings might not happen there but maybe we're finding other partners to come in there and activate the space uh if you build it smaller you might keep it active all the time but you're going to have those instances that come up that you're like you know if this was just a little bit bigger we could fill in the blank the question is is the amount of money you're going to pay for that difference is the juice worth the squeeze how frequently you're going to have those you know if this was bigger um and also thinking about the year round aspect so we have the additional outdoor covered space and is and that cost money too it's a ro so what's the desire for the year round number and then the just the seasonal and something to keep in mind for the outdoor versus the indoor space we do have kind of a it's a door and it should be a window wall kind of to allow for it to both be connected or it can be kind of two separate entities depending on what the group is looking for does that make sense that they can rent potentially both the outdoor Gathering because there's a patio space and then there's a gathering space outside so they're two separate things the Gathering space could be rented with the main Gathering indoor space um to create more of a if you have a bigger capacity and it's nice out so if you remember I think when we were uh when Gabby was sharing with you the potential Architects they used an example in vanise Heights and they started with a larger envelope for people they couldn't afford it and so then they increased the size of the outdoor envelope in order to maintain that capacity desire so so during inclement weather how often are you going to try and just space for 100 people sitting at a table and in my mind all the other parts of the park the pickle ball courts the playground the splash pad like I wouldn't want to be sacrificing any of our amenities there to make this extremely big to cover more than 100 people sitting so I'm in my mind the priorities this is not as a little bit lower in my mind as far as we don't want need to accommodate every jar I'd rather shrink it a little bit to make sure we get what we need everywhere else so there's a risk of losing something else because we decided to go 15 more feet this way and that I would be on the side of I'd rather keep the other areas guaranteed as far as our Park you know are we overbuilding this because they could show us plan I'm sure that's said 50 seating remove a bathroom half the catering kitchen is that enough to accommodate the park and then that if that saves a million dollars or something but million dollars get buy us some pretty good park space right we have any data on these types of buildings for Park spaces I mean this is a how many acre Park is this Overkill I have no idea right thank you guys keep grinded thanks for coming brainstorm great job everybody thank for letting me know always welcome I mean but it is 50 years future so you know who knows what the future will bring yeah when we're phase three the part is fully used maybe that's perfect space yeah yeah I would say currently we don't have any offerings for rentable indoor space right full stop yeah so that is something to keep in mind um as far as programming goes as far as rentable space I still receive phone calls from people looking to rent the community room that has not been in play for four years so it's definitely something people want oops um but how how much space I I I spoke with uh with Congressman Dean Phillips team and to him on Tuesday I had to report uh because we received cpf dollars on this and where we're at in the process as well as our water facility and one of the things that got emphasized that that I think is important for us to consider uh as as we how small do we want to get to the point we don't have another public space in our community which is why they gave us half a million dollars in federal funding to create one and we're only getting bigger so so like I I'm in this room and nobody could believe it when I said it you know as it's the Bloomington and the brook parks and the the dinas and the Eden fies and Menat tonas that we don't have a sing usually they'll take events to schools we don't have a single School in our community we have five school districts and not a single school the only the only large Gathering spaces we have are churches churches which then makes some of our community members uncomfortable they don't want to go to have a gathering at a at a church and we probably shouldn't be expecting them to and they can't rent those spes either yeah yeah even like Boys Scouts Girls Scout tro yes so so th this this fixes a niche Beyond just you're asking the question about what do other communities do what do they have um I I would say driving around because I'm I'm a park ofile I like to look at what's going on in Parks it depends but what's unique about cork that isn't true of any of the other communities that go in is they have zero public space we have zeros zero public space the only thought is if we did make this smaller we have phase two and three coming up and I believe we had a sports dome at some point so there's room where this was a 50 person Gathering space we could add another retro fit it's going to cost you no we not adding on another building up on the hill or whatever right or when we have full AR usage or or you could potentially add space when we do the space where the zambon is going to be that that could potentially be there's not forecasted right now but that could be additional rentable space so when you're talking about bifurcating a space that might be a way to meet that future yeah and I don't think this is way off in my mind I just I wouldn't be pushing to go any bigger you know the question of is it 75 people versus 100 people space and that so I don't think it's way off of what I would think but I wouldn't be pushing any I think the outdoor space is important what that ends up looking like with this new plan can that still fit the 75 people the current one you should have had the way out T would it be a helpful calculus forab to ask them to differentiate between the costs to do a space that accommodates the square footage for 75 versus 100 I'd just be curious uh because also for a building of this size as we look at some of the mechanics and stuff like that it it might not be material right that might not be different that might not have the impact that you're looking for yeah because then we know what's the opportunity cost okay well we're only saving 200 Grand well that doesn't buy us you know maybe one more pickle ball card or something so so they'd be good to know um I'm not saying this is too big I'm just saying I I have nothing to gauge it off of I like this layout though I like it better than the other layout we did we did talk about some existing Park buildings and what they cost that Rogers Building I think was [Music] around and then the central building if you've been to that in gr or was it Central Park as a whole that project we yeah we talked about what are some existing Park buildings and how much did they cost and how large is that one of maple gr you know up front I've been is it's set up weird yeah so they've got these little tiny pockets of like office spaces and stuff behind the fireplace that go back there uh B yeah and then and then they need they have the requirement for storage because they had the outdoor ribbon and so they've got to store all the skates and some stuff that that we wouldn't have to and so that gets factored in they have put their um they don't need a chlorination system for the river but they do need a ice plant and it's in the basement um probably won't do that uh I would recommend highly not ever do an outdoor refrigerated space and if there's any ever question why just think about what happened this last winter oh I I went over to see my friend Jason who ran the St Louis Park Ice Arena just to tease him about his pool uh I we could look at a few more case study examples to help get a sense of this size and scale so Rogers their indoor space is500 square feet what's this I can't read so there's is 30 by 33 essentially or 31 by 33 just the indoor I think this is what double this is 55 by 37 oh so this is 235 about 800 I don't think too big would it be helpful to see the Rogers one for comparison or you have it on Tech maybe not you can do it that one is red Red's a bad sign there we go yeah cor we may have to redo our city seal this new building make it the sh yes there it is so we kind of went off of a similar idea um different architect same consultant though I think it was H KGI for their project as well but I don't think it was you yeah I think they did a construction manager so there's about 20 ft shorter one that's a lot simpler there's no food area men Fountain drinking yeah so that's a bigger outdoor than what this would could go which is a cheaper way to accommodate more people keeping in mind that we do still have the Pavilion that's up on the hill off of 10 for now um the idea was so hold on to that until and and also keep in mind Maple Gro just committed to $118 million to build other spaces that Corran will never have so so while this might be something the smaller they they've got a lot of other options this isn't their only option we're looking at having a option where we have zero options okay I I'm I think it's fine how it is I would be curious to see if we could save a whole bunch of money I'm guessing we won't by decreasing the size because then we know can we push that towards other years of the AP but otherwise it seems to make sense based on what we've been talking about can I summarize some of the conversation th far for both my minutes and just to make sure that we're getting everything down commissioner Schmidt was four minutes late I'm just kidding um so it sounds like we want to explore a rinse off station by the splash pad um keep moving forward with the destination playground Vision um we like the farm theme the agricultural um maybe some different colors with that too with green I get it's John Deere but do you have a tractor brand preference that you we should maybe not we talked about sponsorships last time yeah well so there are many different playground vendors so that was just one playground vendor that sent us stuff so we could go in a different direction if we want a different style that that was very literal Farm theme nice to keep with the new logo too colors the new logo colors blue green yellow of blue bar get P it up but I'm not enough so I'm just going to go back to us um other areas so I said the rinse off station looking at uh ensuring that the parking lot flows smoothly um the uh pickle ball expansion seeing if we can curve that trail a little more seeing how to um expand more Western and Northern if necessary uh connect the trail and the park paring lot near the splash pad and playground area um eliminate a path if able to to kind of limit the amount of trail that rather than Green Space um double doors on the mechanical storage room on the building double doors on the catering kitchen to the outside storage in the catering room or in the catering kitchen um potentially look at room dividers making that building more of a Farm Vision with a hip roof than you round top style um maybe more wood being mindful of the air quality although I think is that a down the road thing but making note of it um more symmetrical overhangs on both sides being mindful of that Barn versus Lodge feel and then we like a 100 for a capacity but if we have to cut back we'd rather cut back than make it bigger I don't think we need overhangs on both sides do they need it are they're going to show us multiple renderings whatever inspires the feeling of barn best yeah we'll leave that to the arch inspirational I'm not professional just here's an example of yeah I was picturing that yeah with both sides so this this one has extensions on both sides yeah uh so it doesn't doesn't look too much like a somebody said in a center or Lodge Lodge Lodge yeah no to Lodge and then you think you said it but just more Barn Aesthetics trim work the windows not so modern like a little Le can buy a kit the Gamel Barn kit with justy that a whole buch staff will take it on like a team bonding project we'll build it with volunteers because that always works now really think we solv I'm having flashbacks here's one all right do we have any other initial thoughts um and if any come up certainly feel free to shoot an email over I'm kind of expecting to get emails from uh some of the other Commissioners and vice chair because I think that they'll have some thoughts but what I might do is I might summarize what we talked about today send it out in an email then if anything stands out you guys can shoot something back and let me know no Jessica that's totally not what we said when does this go to The Architects then so we will talk to them I think [Music] next um think we do what we oh yeah sorry I just say I had one more on your list was any way to make some of this activation Trail is part of phase one I know it's going to be discussion with like the trails that connect across to the other neighborhood if that's all part of the Diamond Lake is there any way to balance an bringing it in earlier phase because we didn't list where that's happening yeah well maybe there's the potential to connect uh that trail that goes down by the t-ball fields and then goes up behind the amphitheater maybe going that way and then connecting easterly to at least get some sort of connection the street yeah consider ideally it's all part of phase one with d with the main trail does the county need to strike this question uh so this is just highlighting the Regional Trail and that we're also looking at other Trail connections to the Future dominoes and we added this Trail in here as potential access to the t-ball and the futury mhm so the cost estimate is still very conceptual at this phase um the parking lot Trails pretty big number um the building that 1.5 that includes the trail all the way around no the Regional Trail is separate down here so that's almost a million dollars and this is the cost that was submitted to through Park District for their budgeting okay um but we have with all of these features that we're showing we've included a an allowance for field irrigation and drainage don't necessarily know if that's needed or we that will go in um irrigation field irrigation can be pretty pricey uh we have $50,000 Landscaping allow so that would account for Trees and Landscaping around the parking lot and building that comes to about 8 million but is only accounting for a $2.97 five million building so after we got the cost from Morel today higher that's why we talked to them about potential cost saving for the building so you can see if we do allow for a four and a half to5 million building how that overall cost goes up a lot and then we've identified 20% construction contingency which is just a Ty difficult practice to account for what the bidding environment bidding climate is like when we bid this what are we set in the full budget for we've been going with seven and a half for a while um now keeping in mind we started that discussion I think in 2019 we are now five years later so the fact that it's N9 and a half on here with or without the building adjustments all things you consider could be much worse I think uh not great but we're working on it well what's the feedback from city council that we've heard on some of these costs and things because like I believe what you said earlier was what one of our jobs is just to like here's what we want right but we can't it's going to be hard to make these decisions because easy to say well six million for the building yeah we want the space let's do it right I I know it's not GNA happen so what what have they been talking about I would be aware of so uh this goes back to the conversation about sources and uses which I do think is a council problem because then we get to chase things like we just did with the with the cpf dolls for half a million there's lots of other grant opportunities in some cases that might mean all right uh not now or as as parks and trails commission changes and City Council Members change and the demographics of the community change it might go oh not at all you know so so right now pickle ball is the hottest thing in the world uh when this was being built pickle ball being the budget was being built pickle ball was not what it is today uh and so by the time it comes to do certain things in the phase it might be okay no we we don't want to do that we need to respond to the emerging demand or it might be what's happened economically this isn't feasible and so we thought that this was going to be a 10-year plan be a 20e plan so so think the larger to get back to your question the larger scale thing it becomes a decremented list so where we're at with phase one that's that's important what can we get done things are going to end up on the cro floor just just by by reality because this doesn't include the other reality that Park dedication dollars also have to deliver on some other parks that have been promised to developments when they built so we can't ignore that that's not factored in here uh and so that's that's going to be even more so I think it's helpful to go and say here's what it cost to do this and then get feedback feedback and and then they go okay well uh let's let's do a decremented list what's most important well one some of the things that we can avoid you know so like when you see sanitary and water utilities oh yeah you got to do it uh you know so really when it starts to go is you know Ampitheater doesn't have a dollar figure in there but maybe that becomes a pressure that are we going to do six pickle ball courts maybe we don't do six pickle ball courts but we template them I don't think it would be wise to do four and then add two later but but those are the sorts of conversations that you can have or we we're not going to put wind screening around the pickle ball course also maybe not the best choice you're not going to save a lot of money but you you start to ask some of those questions operationally um yeah and even like yeah tble to see even there's like tennis courts is on here like again stuff that you could phase out if is it safe to at least say that council is comfortable with 7.5 million since we've gotten this far and then we'll see what happens when we come in at 9.5 or whatever it actually comes in I think it's safe to say that even when 7.5 was thrown out there it was kind of thrown out there okay uh look got some gas discussions that are so it's it's helpful to ask what does the community need we've received funding to support the splash pad we have you know so the pl this isn't important when you start talking about where do you squeeze so $450,000 for playground with this scope is not bad at all and we already have 9509 I can't read yeah so 950 also not bad I'd say under a million bucks for a playground of that but then you start asking has some port in place components of it but do we want to do port in place port in place increases your cost incrementally so maybe you choose instead to do footings instead of porting Place uh that that pulls out maybe 200 to half a million dollars depending on I you know I wasn't in that number but uh the port in place can really decrease your cost uh so I had some playgrounds where I elected not to do port in place because then we could do more amenities and then I had some other playgrounds where we absolutely chose to do port in place because of who you're trying to attract as the users it becomes an accessibility issue uh and so that's some of the pude of the discussion when you talk a playground with the splash pad that number is probably because uh yeah talked about this but if you're going to do uh recirculating it's more expensive at the front end but then you can have that argument like okay our water costs are going to be less so our operating budget this is to build it we also have to have the the on on the back side operations maintenance budget this doesn't include that at all so when you do the omm on it s similar like okay if you're doing wood chips it's more expensive then if you're doing ported Place ported place doesn't have the same type of man requirements you don't have to replace it every year yeah so it sounds like we'll get there eventually this is not so far off that if we were to send this to council they say why are you guys even talking about a building recognize the need for a Building Council would be different next year that's true yeah very true yeah and and and also we've received half a million dollars in cpf for a building yeah okay so so we at least need to build a half a million dollar building so maybe we have an ouse that we can super nice yeah yeah all right that's good thank you so to the three of you this design is lovely we you know we when we first looked at it we had moved this here move this there move that I think all those pieces have come into place and a really attractive really useful really you know very elegant design the the the parking lot goes to the near where the activities are it all just fits together in a really nice fashion this is really a nice design so well done it's these two complet all right just super I keep saying Gabby is great she's been fabulous to work with she listens to like the thoughts that I have and I do try and like take in what you guys say at General meetings and go all right what do I think they would say I play psychic a little bit but sometimes I miss it well I also have great support to helping do the visualization so uh yeah if there any if there's any more feedback that you think of later or examples that you see somewhere take a picture of it send it to Jess send it to us that will help us get give the right direction to The Architects I too like Parks like Jay does yeah definitely helpful to have more input from you than to just be designing without so um our next steps is we're going to keep refining this design and come back in a month hopefully we can get it all refined into a a closer idea of what you're looking for and a more refined cost estimate at that time and then get more feedback from you at that time and take that to the the design that you're asking about with the hip two roof was with if it had the sides that's called a Gamel gbr gambro barn with to if you just want to go and okay WR g g m b l gel bar with a lean to well you said it was very simp it was like yeah it's it's a Dutch design so yeah go look at Park build see what you think go out explore bring back thoughts any further questions requests recommendations I only had one quick question on the 1.5 of the paving in this picture it shows over here is paved that just the 300 spot so I think the concept that's in your guys's packet shows it being paved we would leave that as class five as is okay and the reason for leaving the park or the parking lot is that accessibility to that other Pavilion um but the reason for not Paving it is it works as is why spend the money there when it's probably going to get developed later do need fix if it ain't broke don't fix it just confirm that thanks you need anything else I don't need a motion or anything just if you have other thoughts that me thank you all right new business have none none right excent reports information planning project update formally active planning applications they mentioned the bellweather forward walk I know we went and saw that is there like a I'll touch on that in my report part of 9C because there was an update that went to council okay are you talking about the Open Space Trail the boardwalk sorry I thought it was in this unless you saw it in here specifically I must have misr which section okay no other questions on that program coordinator Jackson still works here um he's just not here tonight because it's the final night of soccer so he's wrapping that up actually he's probably on his way home now good for him um so he has been working really hard with soccer getting everything to go off without a hitch he really hasn't needed me for very much at all for that um he handles most of the soccer and so he has another season under his belt and it just completed so go ahead uh other things that he's been focused on night to night was a very big one I would like to give big pudos to Jackson uh officer Hoffman and officer Anderson who you saw earlier tonight they put in a lot of the work this year by Gabby um so they were huge in the planning process I mean I helped of course to but they did a lot of the heavy lifting this year so hudos to them uh and then on top of of that he's also been getting the fall baseball season up and running so that starts later this month and I do not have resident versus non-resident rates because I knew commissioner Nal would not be here and Jackson is also not here so apologies but he did say that corkrin is a wonderful community and engaging with our exceptional residents and business owners through programming and events is incredibly rewarding thank you for another year today would have been probably his last meeting he does wrap up his employment next Thursday so I'm back to being solo but if you have any kind words you'd like to send him in an email I'm sure he would appreciate it only kind words only kind words say anything mean I'm gonna be upset he's been fabulous he may be met back next year or is he what's what year is he in school he will be going into his junior year um I think his passion is finance I don't get it but to each their own um so I'm sure if he wanted to come back we would more than likely welcome him with open arms maybe we bring him back as a financing this the same job but call the as long as he the mattress the of mattresses correct mattress dir mattresses for clean up there his all right then parks recreation Trails updates yes so you'll notice there's definitely a typo at the top there it is not from July it does have stuff up to date um so this will be the new layout for what was originally the rec supervisor update it'll give an overview of things that I'm working on the projects that I'm trying to make happen and then uh city council update as well so items I've been working on Park planning you've seen a big portion of that tonight uh night to night I worked with the three other folks in the rest of the city to be honest it when I say it takes a village it doesn't it takes a city um we estimate about 1,200 to 1400 in attendance and we had a record 20 registered neighborhood parties I think the most we had before that was like 12 um so that was exciting working on policy updates one of them being signage and event signage things of that nature um in addition to the other policies that have come through that are still in draft form that I owe you all just haven't had a chance um parks and trails commission item so everything in the packets and minutes Etc Bark in the Park so just a reminder Friday September 6 from 4: to 7 PM bring your families bring your dogs uh we've got 10 vendors so far for the event uh started making marketing materials getting the word out out about it and then purchasing supplies for the event so it should be fun I've got some fun activities planned a little photo booth action yeah um Council items so there was a park and wreck update that went back on June 27th that was for the approval to um proceed with Stant or a subcontractor for things such as surveying Geotech building programming study in Wetland delineation so we touched on that we're accomplishing those goals um and then they also approved to move Bark in the Park to September 6th because I had it for Labor Day weekend oops uh July 11th the city park remaster so Jay had spoke to the federal funds that we had gotten to the tune of 500,000 um as part of that we there's a requirement of an environmental review um so 50,000 approximately of that will go towards that it's a requirement but the other amount will stay going to the park um and to be fair it's still going to the park it's just these are added things to accomplished uh the final item on here was on August 8th so just last week there was a boardwalk update so an update was presented to the council regarding the work that's been done between City and py staff to finalize the boardwalk design um some minimum design standards standards were provided and py requested bids from five firms for the base design and two Alternatives so the city is going to review the materi or the materials that were brought forth and then bring a base designed to the parks and trails commission for review currently I believe it's slated for the September meeting so it's going to be busy please don't miss it does that help answer your Boardwalk question yeah perfect we no more later yes uh if you if you did look at the packet um uh engineering did a good job providing minimum standards ply came back with some good Renditions of what it would look like so last week's August 8th packet has material that will give you a vision of what it would look like uh I insisted still says boardwalk in the P it's a brdge it's not it's yeah and the reason the reason I use that wording uh is because this particular body of water you're using it for irrigation it's also a primary storm water collection for the whole area and uh it's going to have bounce serious bounce if you know what I mean by water and with that bounce have to be able to accommodate a lot of capacity so at times it's going to increase a lot and then at times it's going to drop a lot with that bounce you could be three feet off the water and then you could be four five eight feet off the water depending on how much bounce is happening at the time uh if if you're four feet 5 feet off the water it's bridge and at one point there was conversation of whether or not we'd have railings now it's Bridge so so so it's a lot clearer that way too also uh part of the confusion about design standards were at one point the water tower was a proximity to here and in order to access the water tower we needed to have that be able to handle the weight capacity for our maintenance Vehicles that's no longer a requirement which dramatically reduce the expense related to this bridge because if you have to take a truck across it uh but then we're also going to prohibit one of the concerns I had was folks who live in the area maybe want to take their golf carts in order to get manity Center that's right there uh not going to be able to do that what do we get for the $50,000 environmental review that's a lot well 45,000 of it is for the review I think itself and then five was for stantech so so uh this this particular funding goes through HUD and as a result anytime it goes through HUD it's got to meet all of these environmental standards regardless of what you're doing with it uh and so it's kind of pro fora you've got to do these things some of them might not make sense for us what we're using it for we still have to do it or we don't make the money all right that is it for our creation update subcomittee sub commmittee miscellaneous reports Garden Club any I don't have and park dedication Bond questions on that no his last time well you see you see our finance team we're we're still a little short uh we got back on track but and we're getting shorter tomorrow yeah we we've got someone who found another opportunity and so here we are again in the same predicament um so I'm the finance yeah so Jay's Jay's going back to his roots uh with former jobs and going to play Finance furniture for a little bit bill you finance yeah you looking to B here some time I would love to if I didn't have kids or it is a live application oh that's we are hiring iute imagine how much better it would be to see me daily that sounds great but probably busy okay so we got that other business announcements we have none and we excluded the commissioner lead on calendar so I believe we can adjourn if anyone have any other questions comments about anything otherwise someone can make a motion to adour move toour second there all in favor say i i i and it passes