e e e e e e e e e e e work session for today you good for today usually there's a day just session for 11:26 2024 thank you so much Council for being here um again this is most it's all on budget tonight um there is another line item in the council um actual packet um during the actual meeting that's if we need more discussion time um I'm hoping to have most of this resolved by the end of this work session so I'll get started on where we're at today how sits today the levy was passed on September 10th 2024 this is what the levy looked like um $9.2 million was the 2025 preliminary Levy distributed across Capital Equipment or Capital funds and operation funds along with some debt a 16.63% tax levy increase was passed in September um the levy was supposed to keep the tax rate the same for home owners this was set at 35.539938 [Music] supposed to be 1893 for 2024 it was projected to be 1887 for 2025 with the preliminary Levy actually changed was the tax rate to 37.2 65% what that changed was that instead instead of having a decrease of $6 for the year on your taxes for the city of Dayton portion only you had an $87 year increase from 2024 to 2025 that you saw in your property tax statement assuming most if not all of you have looked at that property tax statement or have gotten calls on it how did this happen and the reason is fiscal disparities um and I will try my best to try to explain this it is very complicated so it is not quick and simple but fiscal disparities was set up in 1971 right around the time met Council was set up by the metropolitan area of Minneapolis in St Paul and it was set up to distribute tax capacity from communities that have lots of commercial and Industrial Development to communities that have more residents in hous holds essentially commercial and industrial property pay more taxes so they're trying to redistribute those from the people that are working at those commercial industrial properties to where they actually live that was what the fiscal disparities was set up for how the formula works is there's a contribution so what that each city gives in is 40% of the tax capacity of all commercial and Industrial Development which is in Dayton for us and the distribution of what we get back out of that pot is the based on the percent of residents and households we half compared to other cities in the S County Metro area so how it saacks up is exactly 40% of our tax capacity goes in and then a percentage comes back out to us um the net result of this this year which was not projected is an $800,000 worth of tax capacity that didn't stay in the city of Dayton we were net losers as in we gave in $800,000 more to the pot then we got back out I want to make sure it's noted that there are winners and losers Losers of this program winners are Brooklyn Center Champlain communities that are heavily um residential and are built out but don't have a lot of commercial Industrial Development Losers of this program are Rogers Eden Prairie communities that are either building currently or have lots of commercial and Industrial Development and not as many residents so for example Rogers loses $8 million Eden Prairie loses about $20 million of tax capacity to this program Where Brooklyn Center gains like 9 million and Champlain gains like three million so it's just a perspective of winners and losers of the program again it's within the 7 County Metro area that's not just hban County it's also in NOA County um Ramsey County Washington County Scott County Dakota County all the 7 County Metro area of Minneapolis in St Paul um what would the council like to do so there are several options I provided those in the packet for you to have some of them are listed below they are not in any particular order but staff has taken the information from the prelim Levy council meeting which was direction from the council was keep the tax rate the same that was what the direction from the council was and we prepared some options to address the decreased tax capacity that no one projected including staff so the options are listed out in columns there option one option two option three and option four all of which or some of which some affect operations some affect Capital items overall the total of $375,000 is the reduction in the levy needed to keep the tax rate the same from 2024 to 2025 now the there is an option for you don't have to do anything there's not a requirement for the council to reduce taxes um but then what you've saw in your preliminary tax statement is what you will see in your final tax statement in 2025 when you receive that in March now you don't have to do all 375 you could say we want to do 250,000 of that 375 then your preliminary tax sa would be still wrong but it wouldn't go down to the same tax rate you'd still pay if your valuation stayed the same you'd pay slight L more taxes in 25 than 24 so that concludes really my presentation to the council um related to what happened how did we get here conversations we've had in the past about long-term planning and so on and so forth all go into this and all of the information was brought to you again department heads and myself got together what are the best options that we can think of and you can Mi mix and match those so it doesn't have to be all of option one or all of option two you can mix and match different items within option one option two option three to get to the whatever number the council would like to do so what today is for is for staff to answer questions and Council ask questions if you have any give us some general direction or at least majority Direction on where you'd like to see the tax levy for the December 10th meeting which is in two short weeks and it's really in a week and a half for staff because we have Thursday and Friday off this week so I will stand for any questions and we have all the department heads here so that they can answer any questions question if you have any want go first oh one thing that I think would be helpful to review is the impact of those line items um like the pavement management fund and capital facilities you know what does that translate to in things that we will not do or will do differently sure I can go through each one of them that is that helpful for the council yeah okay so uh I'll go just line by line then so you can see what they all mean so payment management fund the reason why $100,000 is being reduced there we had a $300,000 increase for that in 2025 that was that was um preliminarily approved um in September and the reason why $100,000 decrease is there is because we are looking to do next year's project that's on that's UNS slated is South Diamond Lake Road from one end of our boundary all the way to the other side South Diamond Lake Road is currently an MSA Road or a state aid Road and we can use state aid dollars to fund that road in order to get it redone with means is using somebody else's dollars or your other tax dollars that you'd pay state aid dollars to be able to fulfill the need within the city of Dayton and we wouldn't use Levy dollars for that project um what then would mean that we'd be able to do a different project next year maybe quicker or be able to um save more dollars up for another year project because there are a few years in there in the long-term plan that are negative as we don't have enough money in the fund to be able to do all the project 100% but it also doesn't forego us of any projects that we're looking to do the next state aid project that we' be able to use funding for so we are going to be positive in state aid dollars in 2025 at the beginning of the year it'll be roughly $500,000 will be positive um the next stated project is probably the Rush Creek Parkway and Fernbrook intersection possibly I'm going to look at Jason on this one he's the MSA expert here and I think that's in 26 or 27 yeah that's probably the next slated uh Territorial Road would be another option um I don't know if we would use 8ll for it but it would be eligible if we did to go that route that would be the only other project I can think of in the near future yeah what would we do to territorial that's to extend utilities from essentially the end of the businesses on the self side this so this is down by the change on the west side of Interstate or D Parkway rather and how long can we accumulate these MSA funds yeah so you can accumulate them for a while but it is highly advocated against um the program so the program is up for if you spend more money you get more money yeah so what happens with it and it seems really odd is when programs don't use their dollars the state will say you don't need any more money we're redistributing your allocation and we're giving it to the communities that have spent it so for example we'll use Edina as example because that one has a very high balance of MSA dollars the state will say you don't need your money anymore you're not doing any projects we're redistributing Edina state aid dollars and we're redistributing it to all the communities that have a negative or a much lower balance so there's technically no quote unquote limit but that's just arbitrary with the state the in the incentive to spend gets higher and higher through penalties and other through the allotments asoke the idea is that we're negative so I'll use an example of um we funded Pine View with State dollars you can allocate up to five years allotment early we did five years allotment early in Pine View and we paid it off in four years because of increased traffic but also redistri distribution so that's why talking this year using it for um salt diic Road versus not having enough money to be able to do anything right now that's why so that's payment management that's why the suggestion was 100 Grand again not a huge amount for payment management but we could slowly eek that back up over time to continue to put into roadways $900,000 was planned $800,000 would be if option one or one of the options was used on that one for the 375 reduction if you wanted to do that uh does not include franchise fees that still go there as well that's around $600,000 as well so it's not just Levy that goes into that pay management fund Capital facilities fund this is related to the signs I'm going to talk about that was mentioned at the last council meeting there hasn't been a lot of movement towards moving signs so staff doesn't feel like we want to continue to Levy for dollars that we're not going to utilize and spend and we haven't spent them in the last few years for new signs so $100,000 decrease seemed reasonable we could even do 150 right now we budget $370,000 a year year into that fund essentially just kind of banking a little bit of money each year to be able to fund a bigger project we don't have a bigger project on the future the only one is those facilities that we talked about which is the fire station and the City Hall and police station those got bumped to 2031 in your last conversation so moving $100,000 out of that as seems like a temporary kind of item um so you can do 100 or 150 whatever you want to do um or you can do nothing whatever the council feeli is the best Capital Equipment that's for the future ladder truck that was discussed at the council meeting um when we passed the levy that will put $100,000 towards a future ladder truck as a potential way to reduce dollars later on as Levy that could be a way to um cover that I have and I can show projections of being able to fund that letter truck in 3 years um with the current tax rate as long as we're able to fulfill other their needs and all other stuff in town we don't have a whole lot of other large Capital Equipment needs that aren't budgeted for and need large increases to get so you're saying like you're not changing the price of the truck just dollars get allocated towards the purchase yeah so right now we were just trying to put money forward towards that Project based on some direction from Council doesn't mean it has to go there based on staff's projection we can save the money from 26 27 and 28 to pay for that ladder truck in full without having to pull out a bond based on projected items and I'm happy to share that too I have some of those things pulled up um the 30 grand is for moving records management system we have currently allocated $90,000 already in budgets previously and that records management system is not going to be final paid out until 2027 so there's no reason to Levy those dollars early that's based on information after we passed the preliminary Levy fire this is reduced estimates based on paid un call staff the $188,000 is really no different than the 45 except for that just what ended up being the last number of getting to 375 was 18,000 bucks doesn't mean you couldn't 45 there too um $45,000 is roughly the estimates we put in based on payon call staffing models that's related to training time that's related to how many people are going to show up on calls that's related to various other items of we don't know how many increased calls we're going to have next year we're using some estimates um if we if our estimates are wrong then you know we're kind of Shaving our what do you want to call buffer for any estimates that we may have for payon call staffing um and the 45 Grand is based like I said on that full-time Staffing of two uh projected I don't know if we'll be able to do as many estimate reductions if we don't have those full-time Staffing models because we don't know how many people are going to show up to calls just more variable in our numbers police flock down from 10 cameras to six this is based on the fact that six cameras gets us access to the flock system um confirmed by the chief we don't need 10 10 are great can we ramp it up over time yes we most certainly can $155,000 can come out just to get us access to the entire flock system police can move a full-time hire to full year to half year um that's pretty self-explanatory public works part-time we have hired in the budget would start them in Q2 that's s Grand and then various small decreases in Department line item budgets 500,000 bucks and several line and budgets gets us8 Grand and honestly we could probably you know switch whatever ones around and it's 10 grand it's 10 grand so those are the line items does anybody have any questions on specific ones of why those ones were options thought of by staff are those fire numbers based on the $30 an hour yes yes they are yes they are okay so are we looking at that given that $30 an hour was put forth because of reason that was false we can most certainly look at it um the fire um the fire dollars were put in at 30 bucks an hour um that's just based on conversations we had had with the fire department overall information about trying to get them their money now versus waiting it over time um but that is how the 30 bucks an hour came to came to fruition that's the 45 Grand that's related to that it also seems somewhat reasonable given that you pay someone $17 for the burgers at McDonald's so to pay somebody $20 run a burning building doesn't seem right you know that that doesn't seem very Equitable in pay in my opinion Grant it's just my opinion but maybe at $22 an hour some of you want to sign up to be on the fire department cuz it's worthwhile I don't know but $22 an hour wouldn't get me on the fire department all the communities around us are at 17 to 20 but it still begs the question is that right I think as an yeah that is the question just do theart other cities do it doesn't mean we should be doing itn't we should either right I mean by that same logic champ didn't build their Band Shell down by the river until they had 25,000 people we're putting one in this year we should just wait on that by that same logic because they wait till they had 25,000 people we don't have 25,000 people so that logic can be applied for you or against you depending on what kind of argument you're trying to make and so the argument the conversation we should be having is what should we be paying the people that do the job that might be and and that's that's conversation we should have but that $30 an hour we jumped in because that was the pension answer that was how much the pension worked into the the hourly rate the that wasn't Zack and I had the conversation way before I proposed the $30 an hour and that wasn't the number that I that Zach told me was but it was initially it was funded off the idea that we were going to be able to dissolve the current Pion fund yes and put that on the check because it was my understanding from those conversations was that um that Fire Relief Fund isn't a great pension and that people were would rather have the money on the check now than somewhere down in the future that is correct then over time it was learned that we cannot go without a pension it's either the Fire Relief Fund or perah and so the savings that were attributed to that going toward the check you don't really exist they don't exist in the check but they do exist in the payo because we're able to use them towards their retirement that is correct right right but we had to have one or the other and that was not the initial assumption that was not the initial assumption we talked in 2023 no right well I so we've got to get to an answer on this but I just it just needs to be clear that the original notion of how this would be paid for was kind of a net zero deal and and it's not it was an ad it's in the budget now correct but it was it was an ad I would agree I mean I don't know yeah mayor members of the council um the caveat to this too as well is is the the pension um we did some work to take a look at other people's pensions um $3,250 is not competitive with our neighbors so when we look at that I'll give you the example Rogers currently is defined benefit meaning they're getting 5150 per year Service uh andula and over Elk River and Ramsay I'm I'm sorry r o river is [Music] 9,735 per year and then ramsy and over and an NOA Champlin um are defined contributions so everyone has their own little fund um so it varies in that capacity so we're trying to accomplish is being an attractive employer um that has a decent pension um you know the mayor's correct in the fact that um we do have varying uh pay um pay on call pay for andover's 1945 NOA champlin's 1980 um $16 an hour for Rogers and it looks like Ramsay is about 1770 this pay program along with the Divine Ben or excuse me the police fire Pera and I said this before I think when I did my work session back in May um but if you have an average firefighter if they make $10,000 a year let's make that assumption their pair a police fire pension they're vested at 5 years um at 50% and then they're 100% vested at 10 versus or right now at 10 you're vested at 60 and 100% at 20 and we're just not seeing that length of time um so what it also does with the Assumption of $10,000 a year um and they say they retired at 10 years um they would get 30% um or $33,000 forever if you will um per year so a little over a couple hundred dollars a month um for their for them and their family so ends up being um more lucrative um it does save on the pension side for the city and Zach can confirm these numbers but it saves probably about 50,000 45 50,000 for Kevin and I's pension um because that is no longer paid by the city so that is one of the savings correct and that's what I've talked about in the past is that we'd be able to cover the full-time people's Peril with that um State a y that's correct if I'm not mistaken to Chief that uh when say those that have more than six years worth of service on this on the current pension plan that they're on they get paid out but then they initially still when they go back to pero they have to start over so like those that have 10 plus years on they get paid out of their initial um retirement but then when they go into Pera they they start over at zero right that is correct so for the payout currently so the relief Association dissolves and the city Zach and I city council has no ability to influence that that's completely up to the firefighters mhh um but but to Travis's point is that uh you will pay out it's a benefit for all current members they will all be paid out at 100% because the Assumption has to be that they're here for their 20 years now granted when they look at the pension fund it is overfunded currently I don't exactly know exactly how much um but everyone would be paid out with the Assumption they're here for 20 years so even if you have a two-year member they're going to get all of their 3250 so they end up doing fairly well in that capacity and then to Travis's point they would start over again there is a little bit of liability with having a fire relief as well from the city's perspective um because we have to fund that no matter what that's a requirement for us as a city so there is you know if it let's say the market totally crashes and again our current fire department is the one investing their own dollars um so if it totally crashes and all of a sudden people start retiring because of that the city is on the hook for those dollars to cover the 3250 per year for every firefighter that leaves and if that pension fund is negative or below X percentage the state essentially sends us an invoice and says you have to pay that so we we're still feeding at about 20K yeah we are still Fe yeah I said right now we're sitting at 100% so I think this is a it's a good conversation to have because we're at a right time where it's not going to cost the taxpayers or the city any dollars to you know move to a new system yeah there's no what do you want to call it liability on the city to switch if the liability was you know let's say in 5 years and the pension fund is not doing well and it's like now we're switching to the new system now the city's on hook for that difference of the it's below 100% so the 45,000 is that are you is that adjust the potential pay I guess the $30 an hour you talked about does that reduce that at all at least through this no the are just based on estimates for paay on cult time related to training so if we had two full-time people our thought is we would have less training time because we wouldn't need to hire new new people and right now the cost of one firefighter to go through training on average is about 19 Grand give or take between all the equipment all the all the training all the time TR hours yeah all the time yeah those it's about 19 Grand per firefighter to go through training M currently so that 45 is kind of numbers that you would you dug deeper for yeah we said okay well yeah okay we have an estimate of how much time and we said okay how many more increases calls we're going to have next year we're going to have probably about the same number of people that go up to each call here's some estimates of number of times and again it's just a straight line X Plus x equals this number and um the chief and I said well how can we get some dollars again knowing that we have this 375 um reduction to get from what the council had suggested all of us as department head said what can we do to adjust these things and that's why no Department wasn't hit um and this still assumes an increase of more calls next year than this year that's correct okay the the one thing I'd like to also comment on is that you know you've heard that um this the new full-time staff so to speak will be free um or however it was described and the reality is is that to a certain extent that it's true because we're repurposing um you know when a call goes out we're paging out the whole department so all 26 members that we currently have get called out so the reality is if I have a stub toe all 26 members could come to that call and then we're paying those dollars um with this system with a duty crew and our full-time staff model um we can um incur several more calls because we have staff that's here so the cost doesn't go up per call actually the cost goes down because we're able to accommodate um you know those calls where people are physically here where right now we have no understanding of how many people are going to show up well and that's based on our current call system right where everybody's on call but nobody's really on call right correct you got it got when we have a staff that has a full-time job and it's a part-time job it's hard to get them to sign up to say yeah if I get get to call at noon I'm going to come in or to assign them to that cuz they have a full-time job to pay their bills you know where that's how companies do it yeah but again if it's a full-time job that makes sense if you're a doctor or something I could see that being the case but this is a this is not their primary way to earn their living they have this is a secondary benefit to provid this community we need to get past this I mean at some point we got to pass a budget right that's what I'm here to do tonight well not pass it I'm looking to get good Direct and I mean we've been talking about firefighter stuff since April we need to make some cuts to get this $375,000 problem fixed but I'm not seeing a way to a budget at this point if you think of the larger things it'd be my guess I'll say it that way that two people won't vote for a bu budget that doesn't include the paidon call staff we have two people that voted no on the budget that we passed because of the increase in the levy there's no majority here on one or the other um so how do we get there I think that's the conversation we need to be having but is this do we want to start with this because I agree with you David but go ahead Mr Mayor sorry what does this get us as far as to capacity are we down at like 12 or something what is that oh okay so yeah so I figured the question would come up I'm gonna exit out of this thing quick pull up the levy thing and you've seen this before this is the same number that we passed is the budget that's the same you know breakdown I'm just going to put just for purposes of this to show you what the 375 does in percentage of increase we're at 11.87% that's the capacity mhm no that's the levy increase for increase increase for 2024 to 2025 the tax rate then would stay the exact same right which means that that's capacity number roughly say that again that's the capacity yes and again it's not one to it's close it's not one: one so what what the mayor means by capacity number just so everyone's on the same page and people at home who watch us afterwards can understand it means that the tax rate is derived from both the levy and the tax capacity if the levy and the tax Prest do go up at the same rate or go down at the same rate the tax rate stays the same if one of them is off the tax um capacity is on the bottom at the denominator tax Lev on the top one of them goes up more or less and again it's not a one to1 ratio but it's close than the tax rate changes based on those changes and from what I remember the non new value the non new properties the um how do I say it the Legacy Homes exist counted for 2% yep and 14.2 so we had a 16.63% capacity again a told you it's not 1:1 right and the reason why it's not 1:1 is cuz we lost 800 grand out of there so you got remember that yep yep we show we see 16 but we actually have you have to take out 800 grand out of that number um so 14 of that 16 is new construction and 2% is actually house values changing numbers yeah little over two is yeah that's correct okay what does option three with the pavement 100K in there what does that get us to uh so 475 yep so won't be able to calculate the tax rate for you that quickly but I can no I'm not worried about the rate rate's going to it'll drop but I just want to know what it gets us to 10.6 again yeah the the options are you know obviously they're mix and match whatever you want to do less than 375 more than 375 I'm just giving you here's where you're at today here's your Baseline of what you guys set at for the preliminary Levy at least what the direction was and from there yourself oh yep um here y okay so I'd be okay with option one but I would also add the flock system to option one um because if we only need six to get access to the the everyone's cameras in the system then we can work with neighbors to cover the other ones I and that's what I said before we should get the number that we need to get so that we can have access to all the cameras out there and not just our X number so I'd move the 15 over as well um and then the various small Department budgets I'd move that in option one as well and then Marty the part-timer that you're you're hiring in Q2 is that to Mo is that like a summertime thing or is that no that's to uh help um Kelsey manage her work because she's doing more and more communication stuff so it's going to be a part-time admin ass system in the office okay and well that person actually manage our app and our stuff to get stuff push to the app finally so we can utilize that better that where we would look at Kelsey being having more time to be able to manage that okay so I would I would move those over and then anything above the 375 so the 15 and the so you're talking 405 for cuts yeah so the extra 35 I just I'd put that well I guess I would ex 30 y the extra 30 I'd remov from the Capital Equipment fund so I would get it back to 375 sure because then we could start for the ladder truck okay so 30 you'd like to put 30 grand towards the ladder truck yeah okay yeah mhm okay okay cuz you said that's with 100 grand for the capitals coming out is out of the ladder truck F which we that's correct said we're going to purchase getting a deal cuz we're buying it now not 3 years from now or 5 years from now yep and so we should start saving and there's a path to get there before it's by ordering it today we saved a significant amount of money because we don't have to worry about any increases that are happening and they're roughly 3 to 5% at least in the last time we looked at them were per quarter per quarter yeah per quarter per quarter not per year few rounds of increases that they that's why we ordered it when we did and brought it to the council is because we said it's not going to get any cheaper and it's not going to help us at all to wait and I think there's a path to get to like you said uh buy the entire thing by the time yeah there is and I I want to get where we're at today I want to kind of show and then I can most certainly we can talk about the future and that keeps us at the 3553 uh yeah 35. 61 or something like that yeah right now it's at 35.643953 what do you mean well you're just you're cutting money out of a fund out of a can MH that indirectly it could have been cut out of that can 6 months ago sure when the when it when the budget was preliminary made when it was first made so so we're keeping that number higher as a slush fund when we could have actually taken 375 out of that original 1.3 million yeah depending on what you want to yeah again what whatever way you view the budget we've had that conversation before is whichever way you view the budget y you correct um that 45 on police that still leaves $30 an hour 45 on fire yes on fire I mean yep yeah which to me we we should have that conversation I mean just because we say everybody else maybe that's not the right system well maybe $30 an hour isn't the right system too point B point being I mean you made a comment that maybe everybody else is wrong why is it right if we do $30 an hour and I've never said it was right or wrong but you're using the words right or wrong so I want to be clear with my point Travis Travis just did no there's more he said is what I'm looking for I guess as far as like hey does the indust are we meeting industry standards and just simply using the conversation that our neighbors are doing doesn't necessarily convince me that it's industry standard oh okay so what staff needs is direction from a majority of the Council of what you'd like to what does it do if you if you make that number $20 an hour I have I'd have to go back and look it it's going to be more than 45,000 but I can't it's going to it's going to end up jacking that number up right what number that 45 that or or bringing it down yeah um cuz so the 20 bucks so if you said okay we're just going to pay them all 20 bucks an hour M okay now are you still getting are you going to go with the full-time Staffing model or are you not because if you aren't then I don't know if that $45,000 is going to work because now you have to cover the time that full-time staff would be here now you're paying more people to come to the calls doing today yeah the conversation we had a while back there wasn't support for the full-time Staffing mod I don't know if there is today or not and that's why I'm asking the question I mean I don't know that answer and I'm not saying I agree with all of you guys that $2 an hour for a firefighter is is penuts I get that so don't die on that Hill huh said so don't die on that Hill you're not doing it for the money that's not why you're doing it some might be some might not be well if if a guy's doing it for the money then he maybe should be looking for something else because that $10 an hour difference shouldn't be what dick you getting away from away from the TV store or the the TV program it shouldn't be that's not why you're doing it think I think the 30 is a question but I don't know that the 30 helps us here because it's going to bring that it's going to adjust that 45 so the 30 should have been a question back when we were told the that the pension goes away that's when we should add an open conversation about that but we were we had in incorrect information the other thing the other thing that um I mean you indirectly we still have a slush fund of about 750 SL slush fund of what from you told you told me a while back there was $750,000 that we haven't spent yet that we could use that if we had to $750,000 you talking about the temp fund you yeah you talking about the temp fund oh oh just the balances that we haven't spent that we haven't spent there's equipment equipment or whatever oh sure maybe in all the funds in total we probably have that well then that's where that sign money is coming from right yeah like I said that's why it's like well why do we continue to Levy that's no different than your question of okay I don't even know if it was 750 to be honest with you it's probably a total of all the funds of like extra money we have in there to be able to okay let's say a good deal comes up and we're like we need this Pro we need this project to come forward now let's do it now and we can get a better deal on it no different than we did like I said for like uh we use the parking lot next door like it's a good deal let's do it why don't we just do it now and Pull It Forward so that's why the 750 exists there the idea is that we don't run on bare minimum so that we can do those things no different than you don't in your own home you don't run on bare minimum to go well it's a good deal for a car but I ain't getting one cuz I can't afford it cuz I got away from my car for next year yeah some people do that though won't lie buffers are good oh offers are great yeah it just yeah buffers can be good and bad you want to spill in here well in terms of the option three if we're looking down that one I don't um like the idea of deferring the the police full-time hire I think that uh we did that last year I think that I don't think that's where we should be making a a cut or a deferral well that that puts us a two half year right correct I I would maybe this is kind of question for you but wouldn't you rather have a fulltime right off the bat instead of two would think so uh it would be well appreciated the problem is is finding people um School usually gets out into May um by the time they take their post test at beginning the end of June they pass it um currently we did have one recruit that we're looking at um to bring from another agency and it does not sound like they're interested anymore so um by moving it to half year it's not going to my problem with Happ year is then they hit the budget next year um and that's my only hang up with it but it's 70k either way whether you get a full-time or a halftime but if you if you can't fill the slot till July you're kind of stuck okay um also there was some conversation around the $30 an hour being a a there being some kind of stepped approach approach that could be yep taken with that and the notion that a new firefighter isn't as valuable as somebody with 5 years of experience in all of the the training that was that was asked about um the chief and I both investigated that and looked into it as a possibility most certainly we discussed that with the Department uh I can't remember last week or sometime we discussed with the Department of you know what we want to see what the fire department feels as well you know it does directly affect them um and it does affect budget most certainly but we need to hear opinions as well too what do they feel and um it came back that the fire department would prefer to have $30 an hour right now with no step increased approaches essentially after once paid the same dollar amount than somebody to your point of 2417 now do we have to follow that that's up to the council but I want to provide all the information to the council so that you're fully informed of things and not just going based on items that you may not know all the information on no different than myself when I don't know an answer I go ask the person or go ask the Department of what they'd like to see mhm now again like I said you have to follow that no um from a perspective of the chief and I we both thought that was a value an option that could most certainly work yeah well I just want to say you know the difficulty for some of us or at least for me is that this was presented to the fire department as kind of a done deal before we even talked about it here and that puts us in a really awkward position sure David can I under I guess I don't understand your statement because this was the only way that we can move in this direction is if the relief Association dissolves so the discussion needed to take place of kind of what would work with the fire department so at the end of the day if we and Zach and I did present 2417 as starting rate for all firefighters with step increases um just like we do with other employees um up to uh step seven along with uh 4% roughly way it's sitting right now 4% annual colas um or we would offer the other option was um starting People based on years of service and look back to the beginning of this year to make sure that they're meeting um their requirements so I guess I this was a conversation that needed to take place so it wasn't necessarily yes this is what we're going to do and my conversation with organization is has always been is that this isn't my choice it's not necessarily their choice it comes back to the council's choice so it was yes it was a discussion but it wasn't necessarily a done deal per se and um we did go back um and talked about last year about can we use the uh retirement fund that the community gets our 2% doll to offset that $30 an hour and that came back as no we can't do that um so that's why we started looking at another approach this is all contingent upon the full-time Staffing model being used the full-time Staffing model the whole thing doesn't work Y and one thing too you get there I know there's been some conversation too I apologize to interrupt but as regarding what full-time staff for communities around us um Rogers currently has four full-time staff they're asking uh for the currently for two additional NOA Champlin has five full-time staff so however you break that up between Champa and Ela they're all one department and over has five full-time staff El River has five full-time staff and Ramsey has five full-time staff okay what is your uh okay now my list ultimately doesn't look much much different from this one um you know if you're leaving the which one then the option three I guess at this point if if I see option three with the 100K I think I'm good with the pavement you're saying put it back in there take it out I'm saying move the 100 over to option three and I'm good with option three I I uh I mean we talked about that pay but we we agreed early on that we were 100K above what we needed um or wanted in there correct and we decided to leave it just because it looked like we were in good shape but now it's clear we're out in good shape that's correct Mr Mayor members of the council I would recommend if you're going to do that um move that 15,000 for flly over um I think we can start with six um see how they go they still get you what you need and get us the data that we need um I'd hate to start with 10 and then say well the 10's kind of useless so I'd rather start with the six and then work our way up just to make sure we're doing it right well let's move that over too yeah I agree with that I mean that I guess that was on my personal list as well I had taken the 8,000 in various small Cuts 7,000 in the public delaying the Public Works higher 100K in the um and maybe we can talk about that if we're moving the other one over but U the 100K that we were going to carry forward for the lad truck since we you know learn now that we were 375 short of where we thought we were I thought that could come off um 100 for the pavement management the 30 for the um records management piece being delayed and then again the 15 for the the flock camera reduction so you Shifting the one on the option three on the screen are you Shifting the Capital Equipment fund 100,000 up to payment management basically yes okay I'll get them more with that so is that different than what you sent me in for your options is that different now it's the same it's the same as what you sent me so 15 for flock 100 for pavement 30 for Capital Equipment 100 for Capital facilities 100 for Capital Equipment Public Work admin and various that's 37 360 something and then the change would come from fire yeah and I had thought that we were get to um buy not doing the the U 50,000 easement acquisition but that comes up out of a different comes out of different so that that one doesn't count y although we can get rid of it it just I think we should but it's it's not helping here it does not help the levy at all though so you're you're still taking up the $100,000 for L truck or you're not uh no okay um where I because it's on there which is why I'm asking but that's not what I that we are not including that in the budget so that would be a reduction oh okay mhm but we would take the 100,000 for the pavement management fund I mean take that reduction these are all reductions the flock system that you're leaving the police full-time higher in there I was yep that does me I just want to make sure I was a clear you were leaving the full-time higher in there but if you add up my numbers then that way that I would be short of the and that's what I said the difference would come out of fire yeah the difference would come out of fire I personally would leave the police fulltime in there also but Paul's saying he's not sure he can if he can even get it done so I mean and if David if you're looking for that extra 10,000 that not to take from fire you could reduce mine to whatever 10,000 so maybe I could get it to start in February if we find somebody February or March um would be nice too and then that you don't you get your reduction without having to take anything from anybody [Music] else I'm going to go through the line items and I just want a head nod for yes or no and if you have do you have any other suggestions anything else that really like pops out to the council they said staff and staff went we threw all of it to try to f easily be cut is there anything from the original budget that we discussed in preliminary that you want to add to this line list so Dave you're you're thinking option two basically then I was going to go through with head nods yeah like what and it might end up being more than 375 like I said this is just why I'm okay so it sounds like everyone's on board for pavment management taking 100K out of there I'm hearing I'm hearing did we over I know we said we're 100 weren't we more than 100 over didn't we speci it to be significantly more than 100 over given the 300 next year we're going to get I thinking it was more than 100 but not to I didn't think it was much more than okay say can you push that to 150 you think or no you could it's up to the council sorry I was I know I know some was asking you I was asking the mayor his thoughts on this I didn't clarify that sorry that's something but what makes sense I mean the number we had come to in that work session I don't remember what it was but I thought it was somewhat over 100 yeah that's I remember being between 100 and 200 I can't remember the exact number what it was it was somewhere in there I don't remember the exact number to be honest but I do know it was over $100,000 which is why staff recommended 100 Grand now could we do 150 yes we could it's not going to affect anything as long as South Diamond Lake row gets done with MSA dollars next year it really leaves a lot of Levy dollars be able to do for projects in 2020 5 and 2026 so 2025 we got some big projects like the signal Improvement down on Dayton Parkway we're looking at doing that's got to come out $1 that's expected to be a million5 betweenin the two lights two sets of Lights yeah we're going to try to have the developer pay for as much as possible on that one so I mean again it's you could do 150 sure and there's assessment money there too yep correct but that has to be fronted you know we got to pay that money person stay at the 100 and leave some in for that ladder truck and lad trucks that's a big issue well that's why I was trying to say if we if we cut a little bit more from the the pay management funds it's 110 or 115 that allows us then to a lot 10,000 bucks isn't on a $9 million budget1 or $20,000 is nothing we say that and'll bring you something that's $220,000 you're going to say we don't need to spend it so I'd rather just if we're it's incredible that it's 9 million number one well I know but my point is we have a $7,000 item on here an $8,000 item on here right that we're going to talk about so and we're short how much on yours 15 whatever it was so like if we can get that to 115 or something that also then makes it a little differ mhm okay good and good on the okay so 100 do we want to do more than that I'm hearing want to do 150 be one of those things like up to 150 just be up to 150 you figure it out I'm trying to get some direction from the council cuz it's it's not going to be anous and I understand that so I'm just trying to figure out what's a good budget cuz we have to come back as staff and I'm going to be in charge of putting the budget in front of you and I don't want everyone looking at me trying to rip my head off which maybe you're already doing I'm better at 100 there and if you got cut anything Capital facilities I mean okay the wish list is constantly way too high the priorities are different depending on the person yeah so I'm hearing $100,000 from payment management everyone's comfortable with that sure I'm just going to go on the line and then we can add it up at the end and then go okay where are we if we need to add anymore Capital facilities 100 150 or nothing 15050 150 okay you want to go more on that once SC no that's fine okay you said you want to cut I'm I'm s make not here Capital Equipment is a total of 130,000 records management and the future ladder truck the council like to do all 130 something less 100 uh I think 30 grand is honestly staff is telling you to cut 30 grand so cut 30 grand please and then 30 grand if you want to cut more than that let us know not then 30 grand I'm okay with that well let's take them separate lines take the e one first I'm okay with the Capital Equipment the records management system for 30, 30 grand for Capital okay y okay that's for the records management now $100,000 for the ladder truck I prefer not to cut it but I prefer not to cut well the question I guess I got to ask then is so when we went through this for the preliminary M we had some discussion about the 14ish per of the increase was related to existing or new construction and the other 2% plus was so my feeling around that was when we went to a essentially a 16% budget was contingent on us doing a carry forward for the for the ladder truck and that's how I got there in my own head there well two people to my right um both know on the budget because it was a 16% increase in the 16% is a big number so the 375 only gets us back to yeah I won't be there it's 375 so that's where that's where I'm at if we've got a budget problem we didn't have a couple months ago and you know is it still practical um to to carry forward that 100 we we're going to have to get it somewhere MH right and I thought that saving toward this thing was was the right idea but if it's you know it if we still don't have a budget we can pass then you know is that does does that make sense to keep that in there we need three of us s that's correct I just need three of you that's it easy peasy so ladder truck I'm hearing keep it in from a majority of the Cil I got one that says for sure keep it in to me it'd be the last thing you'd cut yeah oh you're cutting it I say keep it in but whatever you mean you keep it in what does keep it in mean mean to you Scott means you're saving the money for it keep it in means the levy it's staying for the levy okay yes I would say the same thing that the money stays in the levy for the ladder truck and if we have to cut something that's the last bucket we cut not going to put that in the line okay it's either that or you cut the ladder truck all together and then that which that's another but it's shouldn't couldn't it ends up with the the tank it's three and half million okay fire are we are and I want this this going to be a two-part question for fire we have the paid on call staffing 45 I'm going to say 45 Grand for reducing estimates that's what I'm going to use for fire $188,000 the only reason that's 18 Grand versus 45 is because they got to 375 it was just the difference yeah there's just something just it was just a filler number to fill it in I'm going to use 45 for fire that's based on two full-time Staffing so that's why I want to make sure it's a two-part question because it's two different things yep and they both relate to each other significantly so I don't know which one to ask first do I have enough Council support for two full-time fires next year that's the question well I'm not there I question if we're not there we have a mess anyways right because you'd have to go back and redo all this stuff and we're at the back end of November that's what that that's a mess we're back into November and we've been working on this thing since April and we're still in a mess with this thing so it's frustrating so I don't know what to say on it because if we say no all your assumptions are toast um so if you say no to full-time Staffing you just got to pick 45 someplace else then yeah the 45,000 has to come from somewhere else then the assets will go back and say okay now we're back at 45 Grand that also just to make sure you know that that includes $30 an hour for or no it back it doesn't incl $30 an hour that's not full-time staff but you'd still have to then account for the fact that you're going to be paying more money for staff for the calls cuz it's an all call versus otherwise what's your so the 40 yeah so I think you're right May the M be was a monkey rench into it is your issue the cost with the two full-tim no it's not the cost it's to me it's just premature I mean a city of 10,000 people is just not there premature on what though Scott that's what I'm trying to understand the I'm going to a my frustrations because you have the opportunity to air yours the reality is to the mayor's Point we've been talking about this since May I understand that however I've received no questions from the council with the exception of David and Matt so to say that this is an issue without any conversation it's kind of hard to fix the problem if I don't have any direct conversation with the mayor or with you okay and so the full-time staff I'm trying to put together a plan that can last for a period of time I have to be able to balance I probably balance the most difficult group of individuals within the organization and that's not because they're difficult it's because I'm asking for their spare time if they don't have the spare time to give then they don't respond to calls I have about 5.38 people that respond to a structure fire it that's just how it is the reality is as I discussed back in May I need 15 I can't always depend on my neighbors because sometimes dispatch doesn't help us or we didn't get a ladder for 45 minutes sometimes our ladders aren't available this is an ongoing problem not just here in the city of Dayton but in the fire service and Public Safety in general and and so often we focus on we're trying to plan and when we plan that hopefully saves the dollars that you guys are very focused on the council seems to be in my opinion only focused on dollars and the reality is when we focus and put together a plan to try to save dollars we end up later on changing our mind and the reality is when we're reactive to something cost us more than when we plan it out so I'm trying to the best that I can provide a solution not only to the firefighters but to the community to make sure that we have a balanced budget as well as providing a good quality service to the community so it's the 45 a reduction in staff from the fire department yeah so the so the yeah so it's a two-part question because we cannot pay 30 bucks an hour for firefighters if we don't have the full-time model because I can't reutilize or um take the state aid dollars and apply it towards um retirement accounts I have to then we just pass the money through we get the money in and we pass it out it's zero benefit to us to do that it's a benefit to the firefighters but it's not a benefit to the city at all so I can't utilize those dollars for anything within the city operations hence why we were going to say okay if we went to a full-time Staffing model paay on call model would then increase the 30 bucks an hour because I can then offset those dollars that would then normally just pass through to me I could utilize those for retirements for both Gary or the chief assistant chief and the paidon call model and the paidon call staff so it's a two-part question and it's a difficult one because one relies on the other one and if one doesn't get a approved and the other one doesn't get approved 45 Grand is based on estimates that Gary and I went through and said and nitpicked every single line and said okay how many actual calls you going to get how much actual training are going to do how much actual time you're going to have nitpicked every little bit and said this is what we have left there is a risk there that we have is that if we have a bunch of structure fires next year not going what we don't our budget shot either way because we're going to have people here and it's going to we're going to be way over budget we don't have any estimates or actually want to say I don't want to say flop it's not fluff it's just buffer yeah we don't have any buffer for those things so we don't know what's going to happen if we have a huge increase in C volume next year not what we don't if we do our 40 That's 45 Grand was our that's no different than if you have three times of snow that we did yep no different no different same thing you got that's we pay a ton of overtime for Public Works people and I put some in there and I say this is probably pretty close but two years ago we blew through that and I think we went over by like 50 Grand and that's when we had all the conversations about let's not go for Budget again let's not have that happen again um and then last year we had no no snow so we were I think we're 3540 Grand under budget that's why budget's gone so well this year because we don't have any snow so but that's the exact conversation is what do you budget and I don't think any any which way you look at it there's no right way because everyone views it differently with the $375,000 D you say it's 11% increase to the it's 11.7 and how much that's coming from existing versus 8 and it's two and a half is coming from existing yeah so yeah wouldn't that percentage change though um no so this the levy versus the tax capacity so the tax capacity change is is related to so we saw 16.63% increase in the tax capacity year-over-year but $800,000 of that so I don't know what percentage that is has that's got to be I don't at least 3% or something came out of that number then so then each of the numbers from you know the new construction number would go down 3% cuz that's where all the new money came from okay so the new construction number would be and again I'm using 3% cuz it's probably pretty close it's probably 11.4 or something for new construction next year and then two or two and a half% from existing construction that's that fiscal disparities thing I mentioned a couple slides ago previous slide whatever one you want to use so I think what we need to do is from Staffing perspective I need to know if there's support for the full-time staff if there is then I think we would say the fire department would say we can do 45 Grand as cuns that's what would happen because we have less worry about estimates than buffers because we have those full-time staffer Staffing here that you know they're able to work 2912 yeah they can work extra um they can work a 2912 schedule which is 56 hours a week no overtime would be paid unless was over yes over fulltime staff we would not have to pay overtime until 56 hours that week so I would assume that they're going to still respond to calls no different than our assistant chief responds to calls and um I'm assume that they would respond to calls if they have the chance to and they wouldn't earn overtime rate they would beum they never their normal rate well you're the swing guy buddy I want to respond to Gary I mean I get the whole fire department thing what what I don't understand is is why is it okay for everybody else I mean you're comparing Champlain you're comparing all these other cities that are two or three times the size of this city I mean Champlain they have five full time for about 60,000 people CH an NOA Champlin yeah both of them yeah together there's five combined yeah um and what I don't understand about and and I get it I mean there's is there must be in in our I don't even know how many fire guys we got 29 26 right 26 so we've lost a few them 26 how many of them have a day full-time job 27 of them or 23 of them all of them I don't know all 26 do all of them they do okay the and I understand your question because what what we're up against ultimately is people are valuing their time I get that I understand that so therefore they don't have the time to come if you will and what this does is this started back in 2005 when Roseville and Plymouth started a duty C because they were starting to feel the impact of people not responding so my job to help the community and to help Council like I said is to have a budget or a system that will try to mitigate both and I'll be fully transparent just because we have this model does not mean that it's all going to work perfectly because the reality is is that if people leave then it puts more pressure onto those that are still here and right now we're basing this on 20 hours per month so we continue to struggle with getting people um to commit to all the training that takes to become a firefighter and there therefore they just don't have the time So eventually at some point if we're not able to try to put something together that can put some more structure and and build um they can account for when they have to be at the fire department then we continue to lose people we lost four people this year because of not having that predictability in their life if you will now this system as I said may not work for everyone but this has been kind of what has worked to kind of bridge that Gap until we have to add full-time people more full-time people but as we add more full-time people obviously that's very static for the budget it costs more but it minimizes the amount of PPE I have to handle the amount of people I have to train and so forth over time so I'm trying to incrementally put together a plan um you know for the next 5 to 10 years on how we would get there but this is kind of where we need to start my hope is that this lasts us through 2028 2029 it really just depends upon how many other firefighters were able to maintain as well as recruit and a lot of it has to do with call volume so I neglected to put that in there is that right now we're seeing about 10% year-over-year call increase right so when I started um I think we're 353 calls this year we're going to be probably right now we're sitting at 5:43 so I'm guessing that we're going to be probably around 604 to 605 so we're pretty close to doubling the call volume in those two years and the other like I said the issue is the number of firefighters are actually turning out for a call regardless of the type of the call so this so what happened what would happen if you went back to instead of 575 calls what would happen if you went back to 250 calls then what would happen how do we get there though yeah how do you how are you going to get back to how you going to one third call get rid of some of the Medicals and it puts pressure on Paul I understand that I understand that but that's what every other city does no they're they're not though chamblin does they're running a Duty Crew they're running Duty Crew at night I mean at that point right also my guess is that the police office are going to cost us more than the fire departments I don't know you tell me you guys would know what cost more a full-time Police Department person or a full-time fire department person I don't probably fulltime police I don't I would say full-time Police Department I think the only response would be or the only benefit there would be response time it would be significant so and as we get continue to add um we have some presentation tonight when we add multif family that's going to increase call load between between police and fire um probably May more so probably in police maybe depending upon what the types of calls are um but we continue to increase both of them so Paul staff is extremely busy um we've been able to utilize them I mean I gave the example earlier in the year when um Paul only had one person on and he was helping block traffic on Dayton River Road and we had a fire but his calls are stacking up in that capacity and then looking for Mutual aid from Cork and Champlain to help uh him with that so it's the trickle down effect um you know the situation we had yesterday was pretty significant so both of us are responding to that but then there's still other calls going on so a lot of cities um have gone towards law enforcement is doing law enforcement they're policing and fires picked up that you know we've had some pretty and I'll say this out loud and because I called on it today but North Memorial did not do us any favor today or yesterday when we responded to um the significant call we had yesterday and we had another issue with them today I mean basically the medic froze yesterday between police and fire were able to pick up that um Gap and get that person to the hospital um and then today we had a poor service from North with a patient where they don't want to really serve the customer so to speak so um I believe it's important that we have a representation of somebody that gets there fairly quickly before North or wherever that um services that comes in and if we don't have that then they just sit there without any um I'm assuming they feel like well they've kind of been abandoned to a certain extent no one from their Community is coming to help them I'm not saying that this is easy I I completely understand it but Public Safety um it's it's not attracting as Paul's indicated trying to find people it's no different than than fire so with what I'm trying to do is really balance what the fire department needs and what you guys are looking for for a budget kind of feel like the peanut butter and the jelly in between getting crushed from both sides so trying to do our best to to meet everyone's needs if you will and it's not easy and it's no different for you guys trying to figure that out as you guys represent your constituents within the community that I need some direction and we get skip that line move to the next line atem so we can come back to that why we do that okay police flock down from 10 to 6 I think that's a yes yes consensus police full-time hire from full year to half year um yeah based on what on what the chief said I I'm okay with you're okay with everyone's okay with moving that to the half year I wouldn't be but Paul said he can't get it done anyway so I'm sure Paul can try his In fairness right if all of a sudden in March you find someone that's a transfer over you could pick them up March and just hire the part-timer in that back half like third quarter right you can shift that around we've done that before in the past it's just the dollars that matter not kind of when they're hired yeah correct okay uh public works part-time Q2 that's sounds like that's okay that's okay and very small decreases again that's just a buffer number yeah I can I can up it to 10 or 12 or eight was just a buffer number to fail the difference so that's fine sounds good for everybody so you add all that up without the last at them where are we at eight was just a dart at the wall huh well eight was we need to get to 375 that that's what got you from pick pick a number there we're doing various decreases and then again long as put 100 there okay you want to throw 100 there okay throw I'll I'll show my ped I'll put eight okay sounds what does that up to Z okay um I got 280 350 365 380k that gets us to keeping the budget that doesn't touch anything with fire yep 100 from Public public 100 from payment management 150 from capital equ capital facilities 30 from Capital Equipment so that's $280,000 there 15 from police police 70 from police that's 85 and another 15 from public or seven from Public Works various is eight so that's another so between the small ones down there 15 70 7 and 8 that's another 100,000 so 280 and 100 is 380k and that leaves 100 for the ladder truck that leaves a 100 for the ladder truck and doesn't touch fire so that allows us to then R the two full-timers and the pay increase yep and I would still and if if the council's okay with that we would still look at going to a $45,000 decrease correct yes yeah so if the if the council's okay with full full to four four and a quarter then yeah we get it to four and a quarter y if the council's okay with hiring two full-timers for for fire department next year we can reduce $45,000 of estimates like I said that's that buffer and we get to 4 $425,000 of reductions for the levy which would make the tax rate actually go down slightly for next year compared to what you saw in your tax statements or significantly less than Which tax statements yeah so gets it to forign accar you said $425,000 reductions and it does not touch the ladder truck that still puts 100 Grand towards the lad Tru that's including the 45 includes the 45 as long as the council's okay with hiring two full-time people in the fire department and then we say the estimat would Beed now the next question is is where are you at well because we have to get there right I've been reluctant on this full-time staff thing since it first came up I think it's premature um and the reason the biggest part of that is for me is that this is year one of a 5-year plan but we don't have the other four years and so it's it's hard for me to believe that this is going to be be implemented well without having a full fully thought out plan how do we move into this how does this relate to building toward the third station what are the what's that Staffing model look like all of those pieces are yet to be defined uh at least for me um that's not something that's been if it exists it's not been shared with us and that makes me really nervous about this I think this is the right model I think our big problem is in the daytime and this will do something toward that um so I think it has value I just wish there was a plan and I and nobody you know it's not there what's the plan for where are the where are these two people going to be where where do they stay so the you're bringing them to your house yes no done mayor salonic and members of council um so there is $25,000 in capital um to fix the facilities the facilities here to accommodate uh staff um just moving things around um and so they would reside here you know there's there's other benefits um to this and what those are is that currently right now station one because of its location let let's back up a little bit too I want all of us to work on not calling it station three cuz we're not going to have station three in this community we're going to have two stations it might be station three for a moment in time but station one is going to close at some point so ideally the plan is is they have two centrally located fire stations one to the South one to the north um but they would reside here Scott to your to your question um it does fair amount of things currently right now we have a problem with station one not what I mean by that is not with the staff at station one but how they are able to serve the community without full-time staff and moving to a Duty Crew model currently right now if you probably ask anyone at station one 99 out of 100 nine times out of 10 whatever it is they're cancelled basically they go to the call they take their time they get on the truck and they're cancelled because a majority of the calls are in station 2's District or to the South and so therefore it does not help doesn't motivate them I wouldn't be motivated to go to the call and then get cancelled um it doesn't help them you know use their skills within the community and to maintain those um and then it does provide you know kind of a a slower response time you know on that side of the town but what it really does is it brings us together as a group and everyone then has the same opportunity to serve the community and then also provide some predictability in their home life and them trying to be able to plan when they can respond to station we anticipate next year again numbers it's a that's a swag scientific wild ass guest but we're looking at probably about 170 calls that would be outside of there from 7 in the morning um or 6:00 in the morning whatever until 10: at night to where we would have staff here so what that does is that means that staff can respond pretty much a lot of places within the community within 6 to 8 minutes and that's a standard within the fire service is about 6 to 8 and that's where we're trying to get to this will also help if the council is interested in ISO rating with Staffing it will help with some of those uh areas of the community that are listed as a 10 when we go back to build station two or the replacement for station two if you will um so there's lots of things that are benefits that we haven't had an opportunity necessarily to talk about about you know holistically um outside of ultimately the costs which I understand are a concern so we go along with this program what do you want next month that's just a I I'll be honest I believe fire Lamborghini that's what he's going to want next month I I really no no I really think this plan will help us get to where we need to go um over time I know David's trusted because there's not necessarily a plan but I've been here for a short period of time I'm trying to fix some of you're costing a lot of money in that short period of time I Scott you know what I don't disagree and but at the same time and it's not recognized often and and I will say this Council has been supportive of the fire department you truly have been since I've been here so I can't say that you haven't you've gotten almost everything you want I I don't disagree I I I don't but the reality is is that we're playing a lot of catchup from unplanned Years From the Past yes so I'm trying to operate the ship and put together that plan for Council I think this can get us to 28 or 29 but I can't guarantee anything it really depends upon how this fits into the firefighters that work with me on on my team so all I can do is bring it and hopefully we can make a success of it I've seen it be successful with other communities it's ultimately all we're doing is we're bridging that Gap to fulltime at some point in time when it becomes necessary to do that so yeah so prior to the end of the work session here I want to say thank you for the council for giv some good direction I appreciate that um if you are all okay with the $425,000 worth of cuts that were made tonight um I will bring that back um for the approval in December 10th I do have an item at the end of the council meeting if we want to rediscussed again we have still have time to do that that's why I did it this way but I do also want to show the council that what the projected rates are these are not perfect I anticipated $375,000 worth of cuts when I put together this future rate and so it will be slightly lower but this is my projected tax rate for the city of Dayton over the next 10 years based on the capital Improvement plan you guys have looked at long-term plan the planned um increases and whatever else with Staffing models and so on and so forth and operations and again my estimates based on tax capacity I took in a lot more increases in fiscal disparities than I may have used in the past so I um fool me once shame on me you let not go there shame on me twice so I was much more conservative with those numbers but this is the plan tax rate for the city of Dayton overall over the next 10 years that includes all the purchases that are currently in the plan including the ladder truck be paid for by cash including the bond for the fac facilities in 2031 um including anything that's on the long-term plan is funded through this project right here and plan tax rate again this is a planned tax rate doesn't mean it's going to happen perfectly but my goal is to keep the tax rate right about where it's at go down and go up slightly but as you can see it's never more than 36% so that is my goal at least that's what I've put together as a planned tax rate I will share all the details with this if the council wants to see them I'm happy to share them with you you'll see them in the on December 10th either which way do you have any other questions for me otherwise I will wait till the end of the meeting yeah four minute warning yeah so I'm just going to say two more things that out of this that this is not the path I want to be on and we're going to um well I'm I'm going to have to back away from that a bit but what I what I would like to see out of this is that by the time we start budgeting again which will probably be in 3 weeks but uh by the time we start doing this again that there is a long-term plan for the fire department that we not get this a page at a time that has been the most uncomfortable part for me is that what are we doing next um the second thing is that we need to be um showing we're saying that this is going to improve our response rate it's going to do number of other good things for us then I'd like to see some metrics that we actually measure okay and report on sure and those are Council Fant those are easily obtainable on a monthly basis weekly basis daily basis um so that's not a big deal we can start we can share those we've shared a couple times in the past we most certainly can share them every month now yep yep we can most certainly do that noted anything else from the Council on the work session Bud than I don't know that we've made that many strides in the last year and a half as far as reports I mean personally we we sure there's a surprise just about quarterly a couple of them quarter it just it's part of it might be you should we should vocalize what we want to see and how often we want to see it cuz if it gets sent and then no questions get asked and they don't think anyone's reading it why am I pulling this no one's using it and so I think taking the step of saying we want to see this and we want to see it monthly quarterly by anually annually is an important piece to that because if they don't if no one knows you want to see it and you don't ask for it then we don't know we can get it so you know but we have had reports in the past that we've seen staggerly I won't disagree with that one bit that we all of a sudden get a report and so if we want them on a set basis just tell know we want on a set basis yeah I I don't disagree I I know that information's being collected I I think though that you have to look at this because this is a significant change in the Staffing model that look at it like a process Improvement project I mean soe planning you can say we're I guess past that point so now we're going to do it right so then we have to check it and is it doing what we thought it would do and that's where you need those metrics and I'm not sure I can tell you which ones are the important ones except that these are going to be daytime people so I would look at daytime um kinds of Statistics because if it's not working the way you thought it was going to then we need to Shake It Up change course adjust you know that's the whole process and it should be it should be ongoing and uh that's what I would like to see I would certainly hope it's covering up until midnight every night 10 p.m. 10 p.m. 10 p.m. was the we're we're covering 92% of our calls from 7:00 a.m. 6:00 a.m. roughly in there till 10:00 at night from 10: to 06 28% of our calls come in at that time of the day and I guess my only comment is one thing that remember I started full-time in 2022 but the fire departments existed since 1962 so where was the planning and the contribution from Council at that time so I've come in late and yes we're changing the Staffing model but it's because I'm trying to be diligent and provide you with a plan that didn't exist before I was here okay thank you all right thank you very much take a 5 minute recess recess thank you e