e e e e call theorder the work session meeting for Dayton city council June 11th you have to read the one item on there there's a piece paper top one I believe uh so I have to actually read this you actually have to read that yep all right all right I will note for the record that notice was given that council member Henderson is participating in this work session meeting via interactive technology which is love and minota Minnesota statute section 13d 02 the address for his location was included in the notice and is open and accessible to the public thank you very much Travis can you turn your camera on pleas and thank you possible it's not I can get started and you can try to figure that out as we go it says you cannot start your video because the host has stopped it I can barely hear you guys too he's going to try to crank the mics up I think a little bit I got I got some volume now all right beautiful I can it says you cannot start your video because the host has stopped it so okay all right we'll figure that out and we can play with it as we go I don't think we need that do we okay as long as you he is the main thing so um good evening okay perfect good evening mayor members of council um welcome to the first budget work session for the 2025 budget um I'll go through my slides as quickly as I possibly can and then we can M discussion at the end again ipate this to take roughly 5 to 10 minutes so um just as a quick reminder everybody that the tax rate is derived from the levy and the tax capacity um the levy is the actual dollars that are received by the city and the city has to request those additional dollars um and those happen in December and the um typically the first meeting in December tax capacity is all property values within the city of Dayton or within the boundaries of the city overall and those two combined together equal the tax rate um so the tax rate is the result of the above two not a item that is derived from either one of them they have to have both items to get the tax rate um I've given this example before but it's been a couple years so I figured I'd just revise it just to make sure everyone is aware so I used a city of example and said that they put up 700 homes in the previous year and two new commercial businesses they have home value is $500,000 give some information roughly of what the year tax rate was so year one tax rate when you began the process was 40% and a $4 million Levy of the actual dollars received by the city the tax capacity was $10 million so the average home bill was $2,000 and that's just by simple math um in scenario one so I give three scenarios of what could possibly happen with the next year as in year two no tax levy increase which means no more additional dollars are coming into the city the tax rate would drop to 20% the levy in the year two would still be $4 million but the tax capacity would be twice as much and again I'm using round easy numbers for everybody to understand that's 20 million so the average home tax bill in year two was $11,000 scenario two is some tax Levy increase which would mean that okay now the city's of example is bringing in $5 million and the tax capacity is still 20 million in year two tax rate will be 25% and the average tone bill would be$ 12250 again this is just for the city of example um again that is a decrease from the average home tax bill in the first year if the levy matches the growth and they're not a one:1 ratio but they're close tax Livy receed for example would be $8 million tax capacity still 20 million but the tax rate would remain the same which means everyone's tax bill for their house would be the exact same in this scenario the home value does not change which is the one thing that we don't have control over I want to make sure everyone knows we have no control over home values that's the county but that's something that we can't control um but if your home value stays the same those are rough examples breakdown of the levy so where do we start at today and what does it mean for next year so the 2024 tax rate is the same as it was in 23 which is 35.643953 3% change in the tax rate and every 1% of Levy means about $18 or $150 a month for each home in Dayton again the average home is roughly $525,000 in this scenario no in that's in us for for the city of Dayton the average home value is $525,000 525 y so what happened from 24 to 25 so as everyone received their valuations in the 24 tax bill you would already also received a valuation notice that said what your house value will be in 25 um with the additional growth and the change and Market values overall to tax capacity change and these are updated as of June 3rd so these are very very recent numbers the tax capacity increase is 16.8% or 3.7 53 million those are updated as of June 3rd roughly and I did not put this in the slide but just as a rough number 14.2% of that is New Growth that's new items that came in line that's commercial mostly as you can see the big changes about $2 million change in commercial industrial a lot of that is related to the commercial industrial um increase we've seen on the south side of Dayton the proposed budget of the preliminary Levy breakdown after um Department directors and myself have sat down and discussed things overall um is roughly 18.22% um that is what we've come up with as directors and need direction from Council from this point on to figure out what is the best option for residents overall um we are going to focus specifically on the general fund or the $792,000 increase decrease tonight however there the other increases that are in those numbers so the 300,000 in Capital Equipment the 15,000 in park Capital the 30,000 in capital facilities and the 300,000 in payment management were all directed from the long-term plan that happened last year that was approved by Council so those are what was anticipated in the long-term plan overall for the city so those are also increased in the numbers that you seeing for the 18.22 but those numbers we're not going to discuss unless you have specific questions on those um numbers we will work on those during the long-term plan if you have any major changes with those at this point at this point but we'll focus specifically on the general fund I wanted to show a graph to you to show what's happened over the last few years with us I've shown this before the black line is the tax capacity over overall um tax availability if the tax rate was 100% that's how many dollars a city would be able to bring in um and the blue and green lines are the dollars received for what purpose the general Levy is majority or 90% of it 95% of it and the small portion is that $210,000 Debt Service that debt service is related to the PD and Public Works facility that we put up in 2016 that is a 20-year Bond just as a reminder five years of historical data so this just goes back to kind of show you what's happened um and the left graph relates to the right graph but the right graph and the tax rate number is the derivative or the um answer after you take the two mbers on the left so each year I'm going to remove this little thing here best I can um each year on the left you'll see a blue and a red line the blue line is the tax capacity change and the red line is the tax levy change so every time there's a tax Livy change that's more dollars coming into the city if the red line is higher than the blue line then you will see a increase in um property taxes or uh property tax rate if they are less than typically you'll see a decrease um so as you see decreases on the left on the right graph they come from the left hand graph um you see 22 it went down to about 3% that's the change on the left-and side graph in 22 from 15% or 16% tax capacity change and only a 7% Levy change you see the big um decrease happened in 23 that was when we had over a 33% tax capacity change and only a 4% Levy change um reason why that 4% Levy change happened is also because we redirected dollars from a bond um to reallocate towards operations so that helped significantly we didn't add more dollars to the levy we just repurposed those dollars it was a bond and it was also I think the remainder of that covid uh part of it was also the co dollars that is correct we still yeah arpa dollar that's correct those ran out in 25 so that'll come into conversation here tonight yes I thought Travis was trying to say something Travis are you saying something no I was not okay um so as you can see you saying in 23 we used onetime funds to offset V curring costs that is correct yep so 23 we used half of onetime cost to offset ongoing expenses which you'll see that coming off in 25 and we I believe those are also for there was some Capital expenditures which were onetime expenditures um those were yep so half of those went to um the electrical line that fed the well um well house on F was $365,000 the onetime cost yep so we took half half of the total dollars which was 720 is half of them went towards operations and we split those into two Hales so 1 and 23 1 and 24 and then the other half went to that electrical line in wellhouse 4 thank you so the uh proposed again tax rate increase is a 36.065190 that were provided in the first screen what does that mean for a homeowner so I always provide this slide just to show you again these don't take into consideration any value changes in your house but the average one again would go from 1893 to 1915 roughly at $22 or $22 a year increase in your um property tax levy which is roughly $183 a month and obviously that goes up as your house value gets higher um the change from year to year goes higher as it gets higher but I provided more numbers higher because we have seen a higher in a higher number of houses that are above $525,000 over the last few years back to that last this one no that comment you made about so the onetime money was the covid money the bond money wasn't one time money no the bond money was not no sorry the arpa dollars that were received from the federal government in 23 we used for one time Dollar that's correct the bond money was not comparative data as we like to look around I did change these up this year I just used neighboring communities because it felt like it was more appropriate than comparing to um communities that were the similar market value as us as we're always comparing to our neighbors um each one of those graphs represents the tax rates that's happened in the neighboring communities over the last 5 years as you can see we're roughly right on par with Rogers um slightly lower than Champlain and slightly lower than corkran we're significantly lower than Cor um yeah about 6% lower than cork y thank you yep um here's the breakdown Rogers does have the fact that they have a lot of commercial industrial offsetting a lot of their taxes so they probably bring in a lot more tax dollars as in Levy but those are offset with those commercial Industrials you can see that blue line on the top graph significantly higher for Rogers um and as you all can see the Champlain one is significantly higher in residential too they have a much larger tax base when it comes to residential um the bottom one the only one I added in there was Maple Grove um everyone kind of Compares us to Maple Grove or says you know whatever we're near Maple Grove so why not look at it I feel like it's a very much of an anomaly but I did put it on the graph just because it's so high that their market value is over 10 trillion dollar or 10 sorry 10 billion dollar and yeah and they have massive amount of commercials massive amount of commercials so I did throw it on there just to kind of show a difference between the four communities around us and then Maple grow it's kind of its own State basically um I'm going to talk about quickly with the major changes there are two slides of major changes that happened both down down and up so there was some adjustments around overall so I'm going to touch base on them and then we can have conversation at those at the at the end here and all the department directors are here to answer any questions but Activity Center an increase of 46 grand and I'm going to use round numbers here when I'm talking those are mostly related to changing the recreation coordinator position from being a part-time 20 hour week um position to a 32-hour a week position what that would mean is that we would add benefits to her um package for being here as an employee she's done a fantastic job and we would like to continue to see those Recreation programs take off um so that's most of that $46,000 change uh city clerk there was some changes in the current salaries and benefits um also with some of the salaries of a reallocation for the 2024 planner position that we had planned out for we we use those to reallocate dollars in order to hire a basic basically individual to be able to handle a bunch of different things which has been Kelly who's sitting right next to me here she's handles just a bunch of different stuff and it's backup for a lot of things and she's been a great asset so those changes um are just again they're not adding dollars they're just reallocating them so I if you want the breakdown of actual new dollars I'd have to break that out differently because it's difficult for me to just run really quick numbers and say this is what it is for new numbers because it's a reallocation from the planner position from the planning department to now other departments that she's actually working again so if you want those numbers I can really do my best to reallocate where the budget wasain it it's a pain I just noticed on here there's that question and also the planning department we're adding 59k but yep we're not paying for land uh landform we are not paying for land for so I didn't see that as a subtractor and that was kind of it would to see I we get to the planning department and the reason why you're seeing a $59,000 change is likely because and I'll skip down to the planning department cuz we just went that way is a is a a um a side but that is a new associate planner position we're looking to hire midyear so it's half a wage correct correct that's L for the so the 18190 is a subtraction from the previous year's planner budget this is why it's really hard to follow it's because we budgeted for a planner role we didn't use that planner rooll we use them in different departments and then now we're going to add in a half a person for the whole year so there's only only a slight increase in the salaries and wages overall for the position we just brought one in we did we are going to hire one looking to hire one tonight we are looking to hire an associate planner so like a lowlevel one right out of high or right out of college I mean um to be able to train them up to be able to be an associate planner but we had two at one point in time then we lost right recently this year in 23 we had two okay and then 24 we lost them yep for not John related issues just to be clear correct yep so this will bring us back to two this will bring us back to two and it be somebody right out of school that would be right out of school yeah so we essentially looking at bringing them in at the lowest or lower wages than paying somebody with a little more experience but so the the person we're looking to approve hiring tonight is already in the budget yes already in the open position that is an open position and the one you're talking about up here is is a new full-time position that gets hired mid year of next year that is correct and this the planner one is the hardest one to follow because we reallocated dollars for a position overall in the general fund it doesn't matter where you put the dollar cuz it's all out of the same fund yeah but it change it changes it from departments so it makes it difficult to follow and I totally understand that I thought about that as I was putting this together said I don't have time to put it actually run the numbers through of what it looks like but I can run that together and send it off to the council this week if I get a chance to Nets out the same it Nets out exactly the same the like I said the dollars either go from city clerk to plan to inspections to finance to they Kelly's kind of the backup for everything so she's in floater so basically you just take her wages and divide it amongst H many Department she hasn't we assume she spends approximately that much time in all these departments so got you got it exactly um elections decrease of 35,000 there's no election next year so um that'll take away a lot of those dollars finance department increase of 54,000 that is sorry this for the elections instead of decreasing us budgeting 35,000 this year for next year and then increase for 35 the following year why don't we just make it 175 every year so it just stays a constant number so we're always planning for it um the reason we've always done that this way is because it's hard to track dollars once they're back in the fun balance number so essentially we're budgeting for um an we're budgeting for a surplus one year and then budgeting for a deficit the next year it's hard to follow the dollars when we have ups and downs in the budget I mean I can do that that's fine but it seems to be it's small enough dollars where it isn't like a huge change to the budget overall and typically there's enough es and flows that we're able to make it work but it's small I was just curious why we we have something where it's like every year we pay for it why not just tax evenly for it every year I can understand your question I get it yeah um I just this is how we've always done it just because it's hard to track it once it goes into fund balance there's doesn't roll over from year to year on those line item budgets they go to zero and then they raise back up to the budget number and then go to zero okay thank you finance department again this is related to relocation of Kelly there's part of my salaries in there there's the accountant salaries increases there's the um accounting technician salary increases part of the admin assistant there's a lot of individual positions that are in finance little pit bits and pieces but no added positions in finance is being proposed what is it credit card fees those for pay credit card fees so right now we currently cover all credit card fees for people who pay utility bills with credit cards including AMX including AMX have we thought so like the DMV won't take AMX cuz AMX is high interchange rates and everyone else like significantly higher um and interchange rates will shift now to the point that the federal government's looking at get involved how they how they do it I I mean I don't know it's a significant undertaking for us we paid roughly $35,000 last year in credit card fees for the city and I think having the option to pay with a card somewhat makes sense CU that's what everyone has these days I'm not knocking that I just I know AMX is incredibly expensive compared to everyone else which we can elect to pass the fees on to Residents but we figured it'd be less just for them to take on their own fees but we can do that if we'd like to it's a it's a hit to the budget for sure um roughly in the tune of 30 grand $35,000 roughly you don't even know what the portion of AMX is for that I don't but I can we could probably figure it out say isn't it usually like two and a half% or something like that I know when I go to the dmbs usually what they they they pass that on yeah most card companies it's between two and a half to 3% but AMX tends to be higher it's like three and a half to four which is why they pay better rewards to their members yeah it's cuz they're basically ding in the person that's Char that you're charging your card at yeah so we could talk about that that one item that could most certainly discuss as a council I don't know if there's ever been Amy and I were discussing this that we putting the budget together I don't know if we've ever had a discussion with Council about what to do why don't we just build it back into the water F into the price that's what he's saying we could charge residents back we just charge residents back or we because so the resident that doesn't use a credit card and someone else pays checks it seems like it's that's more messy but I don't know I I don't think there's a great answer either way it's kind of a pick one and that's what we're going to go with I mean to me if we're spending 35k on the water fund processing bills mhm what percent of the what percent of the bills I pay with a card versus more now I don't know what the exact dollar I me the percentage cuz the percentage is like 40% then it seems offsetting if if the percentage is 80% of then pay with a card which is my guess that'd be my guess too but we can get the data prettyy we have pushed significantly to go online and people pay online with their utility bills and be able to instead of processing payments up the front yeah paycheck I mean they can still do that they could also pay they could also process that through a check t or whatever when you pay your your your your taxes yep utility bill or auto pay yep yeah I think that'd be worth looking at I mean know again these seem small but these 35,000 year starts adding up you know same with the yeah election it all it all starts adding up so last year we came really close so I'd rather find ways to Sure change these and just say y so we can most have a conversation with the council if you'd like to have further conversation about how we handle those most of those fees are related to water yep most are all I would say 90% of them I mean there's some that obviously come in and pay for building permits if they have a small amount they can pay online with building permits if they have like a deck fee or we don't take anything over $2,000 that's that's the cut off anything over two grand like for building permits like a house they don't we can't pay most credit card anything under $2,000 is what's paid for by credit card so that was roughly $35,000 last year Assessment Services so we approved this at the last meeting I'm not sure if anybody caught it but that's the County's now covering Assessment Services which was $195,000 that was a big change that's a huge trunk of dollars and that actually offsets the loss of Revenue we have from the arpa one time dollars that happened over the last two years that we discussed earlier in the meeting so um good timing uh engineering legal recycling we've all seen an increase in those just based on current trends those are broken down underneath 25 for engineering 32 for legal and 225 for recycling recycling one you will likely see continue to increase as we've heard more about Organics being required in henen county and the rough estimate cost currently I don't know when it's going to be implemented is roughly $60 a house a month a month what for Organics Recycling and they have to do it and they are H they are requiring us to do it in hadan County that is correct does that also fall under that zero waste of landfill stuff that might be coming down the line too correct you got it so that's the rough cost do we have a contract with Rec we have a contract with Republic right and how long's the contract good for two more years and is there a price increase built in the I don't remember I'm was asking okay I assume there was that's where you got 2025 five or 6% it's nothing nothing huge but it's enough because we have that's where you got the 225 I'm yeah got okay so like I said we don't have that now but I just want to make sure everyone's aware of it that it will be coming on the line and I'm not sure if we want to hold that contract or we want to have the res pay those individually that's up to us to make a you know conversation later on with the Organics correct that's correct again it's not this year but it's in the future yep I have a question about the Organics and is there was land Z or Amy either one of you have you heard of like is there any cities that correlating together to tackle this as far as like in henan county or so I know like at General Mills we have the initiative to do zero waste of landfill um but we're doing it with like contract like a contract Service like Mountain environmental um they're the ones like driving the pieces for it um and they just basically just give us the price and and what we can and cannot do wonder if there's anything like you guys knew about that sure I know it's not necessarily budget discussion but as we start thinking about like this stuff and it's it's going to land in our lap at some point you know what is it going to look like when it does yeah uh it sounds like 2030 is the required year for Organics to be required um so hban county is talking about going countywide with a recycling and organic service overall to eliminate or kind of go on your piggyback question CER Henderson on how to handle the cost increases but um we have not heard anything from them overall they might open up their own Department yeah I'd be very curious to see how they're going to handle it too yep so it's a lot yeah it is yep it is inspection department so I want to get back on track you a little bit Inspection Department that's uh reallocation again of dollars but part of that inspection department and planning department increases is related to that new position rough cost of the new position I think is 40,000 for a half a year for salaries and benefits for that associate planner position and that's a rough number it's could be 38 it could be 435 I don't somewhere around 40,000 so is this something under planning I don't yes recall seeing Inspection Department as a separate so it is it is a separate Department we've always had a separate Inspection Department that is related to building per overall so the reason why this position would be put into inspections is because they're going to be the ones reviewing it for zoning code to make sure they got the right setbacks they have the right spacing they're meeting all the plat requirements um so this is plan review not physical inspections correct although inspections department overall does relate to Metro West we pay Metro West out of the inspections department there is a separate Department that we do have for inspections specifically and the reason being is cuz we have so many building permits it was was required that we had our own Inspection Department instead of underneath planning overall as a general but that has been there for a while however the percentage of that individuals broken out I think it's 85 8515 or 7525 between planning and inspections as in they'll mostly be doing inspections on fences decks new house builds setbacks so on so forth okay these are the main big ones here after this um it so part of this big increase in it is that we're looking to change our software hosting from being here on the server to being in the cloud for our um bsna software that hosts our building department general ledger accounts payable um invoicing payroll all of those items it costs us money every single year to provide those Services if we went online it also allows us to be able to access those softwares from not being just in the building but being able to access those when we're out in the field so like um Mar's guys should access it from their phone or a tablet they already have um we could have the inspections group the Metro West group currently has computers or tablets right now that they do inspections on they have to then upload those twice a month and then they're added into our actual software so we can see the inspections that have been completed this would allow them to do that simultaneously so literally momentarily we'd be able to see an inspection done so if somebody calls on an inspection being done we'd be able to see it almost immediately so it seems like about every couple years as we we get this Yep this software is going to save us money I don't know if it'll save us money this one's not going to save us money okay it's going to save us time and ability to access information well time is money so yes I don't know I this is a said this is a request for 25 again these are all things we can talk about and discuss something that staff feels would be nice to have again it's something that's could be good again time is money which you mentioned but um how often does a inspection happen and someone calls it excuse me and ask about it i' have to defer to the admin assistant who handles all those calls but I'm going to or to or to John do you know how how often it happens where somebody's calling before we have the inspection actually in the books it's it's roughly every two to three week they a copy inspection right when they they're home it's left yeah should be left so the person should cuz I I know we had ours like they left us a copy of it so I assume the person then has what they need to I would presume so but that doesn't mean that the contractor isn't talking to the homeowner the homeowner will then call and then says hey I don't have an inspection document done again I don't know how often it happens but and is that 69,000 or the the 64500 there is that a onetime charge to do it part of that is one time charges because there should be implementation so how much is the ongoing subscription to use the web based service is like 10,000 or is it I think it's roughly $30,000 a year half the cost is annual and half the cost is one time costs that's correct yeah I assumed it was a mixture of both correct I'd be curious to learn more about what like I know time's the benefit but I'm having a hard time seeing what the benefit is yeah like like where is the time crunch need is this like slowing down people is this because again I think they're leaving paper copies behind so the the resident should have what they need then to say yep it's done it's not yeah it's not just building department I mean that's a big thing of it but also part of it is just being able to access information from the web and not having to be on a separate computer or to be on this server so you have to VPN in you could just log into the internet and do it on any computer really um as long as you're who's hosting CI is that theyve reserched it so that's that's the thing is they're currently we are hosting in in our BS software hosted on their own servers they don't even use like Google Google or oh they did say there's no way they they're using one of the probably the two maybe three biggest one but AWS and Google are the large ones it's Google okay so at least it's secur it's not it's not it's not yes here where right now it's currently hosted in the server room yeah well it's host yet it's hosted in a server room in another part of the world basic correct yeah but then they're paying for that how much annual maintenance do we spend on our servers today how about this I think I think it's roughly $7,000 a year we pay so I think this is item we should I would say else we should talk more about and get better understanding of what that really looks like and some of the benefits we think it'll drive some of it is the website too so we're looking at making our website more user friendly because currently you have to be a coding expert to do our website on the back end of things and we have one person who's why is that CU we use WordPress and WordPress is very code enforced basically you have to know coding in order to run the website behind the scenes that was a decision made prior to myself I don't know when that was Marty May no more we did the previous um update the website was done at that time you know what year that was oh God it's got to be around it was about 2019 somewhere in there say like three or four so five years ago so how much of the 64,000 is for the B bsna software and how much of is for the website I think it's 20 rough numbers again I think it's 20 grand for bsna about $10,000 for initiation on the website cuz we already pay cost to have the website annual cost and those annual costs aren't going up yeah um it's just initial move over and transfer over and everything so I think it's roughly 10 grand for the website 20,000 for BSN and I'm using rough numbers here and 30,000 for annual on BSA and this is all based on the 18.22% increase Yep this is everything's in the 18.22 that's correct um we'll talk we'll touch base on that one so I'll note that one in my head and we'll make sure we touch base on that one again oh maybe does anyone else agree is it just me that has questions on this one think I'm heing at least one more so I think we're gonna have questions on a few okay and this is one of them I I I'm also should to be c c this time every couple years like I said it's a sof is going to save us blah blah blah and I I I don't know I I if anything it seems like some of this we could put into development costs um I mean if this is if this the bulk of this is wrapped around you know Inspection Services that's part of what we provide for most certainly some of it most certainly is related to that I don't know what a percentage is but weely figure that out police uh increase of 429,000 the current employees is 154,50 this does include the other half of the officer that was budgeted for in 2024 so we hired that individual need to pay for the rest of their um salary since they are hired on that's part of the 154,000 additional to that um the chief is looking for two additional hires one hired at the beginning of the year and one hired at midyear um this is seemed to be a good process overall we get one person that's younger and able to come in and at a lower rate but right out of right out of college and that ref cost is 25,9 48 Contract Services I broke this one out specifically to let everyone know that $40,000 of the increase is related to the flock system that is being recommended by the Eda to have um more secure areas where businesses are at that's a rough cost of $440,000 in total it's a broke down by cameras I don't remember how many they are how many cameras does that get us I don't remember how many I think it's 10 okay 10 okay 10 cameras for the 40,000 is that a one time charge or annual sub anual anual and if it breaks who covers who's where's the warranty at the ca probably down so flock covers the warranty on anything except um like if a vehicle hits it or um something like that happens any weather or anything like that flock repairs it for free and it's an annual cost of 3,000 per camera per year and then there's depending on what kind of poll for installation it's anywhere from 150 to 650 per camera so that is in the police request for 429 830 the other dollars are related to wellness program increasing that um that is also part of the um K9 program that we're look that we're implementing currently so that'll be cost to have the K9 Contract Services as well and then insurance and uh does the 154 all does that in include your 775 incentive program no no it doesn't because it incentive program will come out of the onetime public safety dollars correct like I said for current employees and then the other half of that how much is that of that is driven by contract by all of it oh I'll take that back that we know of all of it we don't have the Union contract nor will we have it anytime soon so I am budgeting based on what I'm anticipating which would be the same as we did last year so the 154 is contractor um will be but not yet been decided correct is likely to be a you got it yep and again in that 154 is 71,000 so half of that is for another that other half of the officer that we didn't budget for in 24 we hired at mid year we said we hire one at mid year 3,000 salary increase 71,000 for the Second Officer we hired the third officer we hired this year that yes we hired halfway through the year that we knew we were hiring this year knowing it would increase the cost next year you got it so that's a little better that's correct well it just doesn't mean that there's 1504 cell celery increase correct no there's not it's only 83 another half body there yeah correct yeah if so total is 154 of that 71 or 72,000 is related to the other half of the individual Emergency Management decrease of 13,000 that's just a reallocation of wages so that actually went into police so part of that 154 is the decrease of 13,000 so again that's a little less so 83 minus 13 we're at $70,000 for police salaries and wages um that is because we're not going to allocate any time to Emergency Management anymore it's just going to happen based on a function of police and fire fire department changes the actual current changes in salaries and benefits for current employees is actually a negative 38344 how is that possible it's because the part-time salaries is going down um along with those benefits because um the fire depart is looking at hiring two new hires two full-timers that'll cost 193,000 884 and then another incre other increases increas is our work comp insurance related to those two new hires and the professional development which would be continued development of our current firefighters and the two new ones and that was discussed at the previous meeting in the work session that's a J model huh that's the J model that yes that is correct y so like I said there's a decrease because we're not paying many part-time salaries um public works department a decrease of 81,000 these can be coupled directly below with the parks department increase of 92 that is a reallocation of current staff time overall the changes are $72,000 reduction in public works but $88,000 increase in parks department um overall like I said those pretty much s out to each other besides the increases related to the contract so those are all in the unit negotiated changes Professional Services is the main one that went down along with some more comp so Marty was kind enough to give some dollars back because he did not use the Professional Services for a couple years and says I don't really need those dollars to be able to operate my department so we appreciate his willingness to give up some dollars changes of building and structures and motor fuels is 10,000 those are roughly $5,000 a piece not knowing what motor fuels will do is just a rough guess buildings and structures is moving continued moving of the Bone Yard from the old public works department which everyone loves looking at to the new public works department and creating more Bays for putting um cinder blocks and Bays to be able to put Rock and Mulch and stuff in otherwise Parks perment major again increas 92 less non- major changes I did want to note these as well because they do add up but they're small overall revenues decrease of 177,000 that is uh because of the8 $182,000 doar worth of one time dollars and then um increases in other line items like government state Aid so on and so forth that we received counil increase of 3150 that's subscriptions and memberships to different departments Administration Cal services and contingency have we looked at those subscriptions how often we UTI there like we will we will most certainly look at because that's a big budget it looks like we're spend a lot on Council every time I see it I'm like holy cow we spend 28 or $29,000 a year right now it's 25 it's post for 28 or 29,000 for subscriptions memberships League of Minnesota cities metro cities I94 chamber um North Metro Mayors oh Mississippi Miss yeah Mississippi River Corridor blah blah blah um between those five I think that's like 95% of those costs okay that's all I got what I think we're missing really in this process is just additional savings for future projects so I'm here to stand for questions that went way longer but we also talked during it so yes so I think if you go to the last I think there's three things that that um sorry this one the last one the blue what we're not talking so we did there's no money set aside here for so maybe I should clarify something when it comes to parks and trails all the parks and trails money comes from new development there's no like we're not taxing anybody for parks and trails today correct um so yes however there's one little bit that $45,000 of Park development costs so that started because we had to do Donna hell's Park we realized we didn't have any money set aside for redoing okay Parks so we started setting aside some money he will do that we are actually currently paying back the Don D's development um redo of the park um with that $45 and the $30,000 this year and $45,000 next year um but yeah other than that there is no other dollars for tax levy going to Parks or Trails it's all coming from development I know it's something we talked about before like if if we want to speed up you know LC Stevens up here is a bit of a Hot Topic item but if we want to speed up LC Stevens we got to start allocating funds to do that so I think that's something we should be thinking about same with Trails like we're Mak movement on Trails but I think that there's some so some opportunity on trails and then know if we and Scott you put this on Facebook but you know if we have this big thing coming up I think it's 28 there's a bunch of money do we want to start saving for some of that it's going have to LY for all of it cuz the longer we wait to start saving for some of that less we're going to have saved up when time comes to do those big purchases are coming up in the future so we we're not like saving for any long-term items so well and as if we continue to get hit with like an 18% we're going to have a hard time doing that so okay because now all of a sudden you're going to talk about adding to the 18% on top of that and MH personally I'm going to be at 10% of the 18% so you want to go back to a certain slide you want to go back to a specific one you want to talk about individual things what would you like to do that very first one where you shown the general fund plus the payment plus the um this oh Bo this one yes what is that Capital Equipment so Capital Equipment so um $50,000 of that is the allocation we used for the engine tender pumper that we purchased that we're were going to allocate $50,000 the $250,000 increase is related to uh new equipment that we're planning on in the future to be able to pay for those things um every single year we're roughly budgeting about a million dollar worth of new equipment whether that's plow trucks bucket loaders fire items um police cars um parking equipment mowers all that stuff is about a it's roughly a million dollar you're going to start a savings account basically it's not a savings account if it is a savings account it's 50 Grand or less a year unless we move like said unless you move purchases one way or the other then obviously that would right dictate those changes it's correct the least deal on the police cars that come is accounted for in that that isced for in that 401 Capital Equipment that's correct but out of the 300 you're saying 250 is for future purchases I mean um but I mean future purchases I mean like plan purchases that we have every single year for the rest of Y long on the CIP La how far out in the CIP are you planning that out for I think it's at least three or four years I think you did that to buffer that y me so that's why I said started like three years ago I think um we tried to do it three years ago I think we implemented a little bit two years ago yeah but not as much as maybe had been planned and then we' just been kind of kicking the can a little bit down the road every time and we've we've inched it there but not significantly yeah and I know over the years we put money in um and and I know we have for example those signs we put we put money in and that's it yeah that's out of capital facilities that's correct right so I don't know and the 300 for pavement um is that that's direction from the council to get to the $1.5 million for the annual per year um okay so the we did the P management study and said no I remember that I just thought that the MSA money got us most of the way at the 1.5 we don't get that until next after next year to 25 is the last year of that payback and then 26 were able to capture that MSA dollars to be like a onetime thing then um nope so those are annual costs so we we budgeted five years allocations yeah no my point was if we're going get that money back next year in 26 we get the money back we' been maybe lower this in 26 to make up for the differ yep if we want to get on track this is what it takes to get on track to start next year to get on track for the roads y so we are like I said so we provided the what's on track dollars we can adjust and amend whatever it needs to happen from council's perspective to make the dollars work and so so far the one thing I've heard is for sure the in the it number with the um going online with bsna are software program we've heard that one as a comment is there anything else specifically credit card fees we talked about too yep well those are all yeah just going to make I'm just going to make some notes Here for myself those two if we were to cut all of that together that'd be almost $100,000 two things combined so like there's they're small but they start adding up to they can yeah yep significant terms of money in that case I'm not saying we cut all the technology but if we did that that plus the credit card fees would be yeah if we had to cut one I'm going to recommend cutting the online bsna before I'm going to recommend the website because the website is yeah a serious user thing and also would be way better for our residents to be able to access because they get lost on our website all the time too just it would go basically to the um similar program like it's not exactly but Maple Grove Rogers have like a quick links six in the middle that are easy to click on and ours are a little harder to find CU you to scroll down to the bottom and we tried to adjust it with the activity center program when um Teresa was here and we never actually fully implemented it and it's you have to know code in order to adjust the web M understands no one on our staff really knows how to use our website as it stands correct we have one one person and that was because she was here when it was implemented okay and even that she's not a code person she does not know code so getting to do exactly what you wanted to do she just graphic she's a background of graphic design so your your credit card fees if you take them then you just eat it up on the camera thing so it's kind of a wash eat up on the camera thing 10 cameras if if that's if that happens oh yep yeah what is the the push for that camera stuff that is coming from the Eda yeah so Paul I'd like your input on on that I know I know it's coming from you day I've heard it in like every me the last I don't know how many months because businesses think that this is going to help how many communities around us have these are using them uh Champlain is using them Ana is using them um almost all of Anoka County cities are going to have them um Maple Grove is using them Rogers is installing them um corkran Maple plane Independence all along the highway 12 Corridor has um I believe Plymouth has them um they're a very good investigative tool um any vehicle that comes into our city that somebody has a warrant or it's a stolen vehicle stolen plates anything like that the officer automatically gets notified same with Amber Alert license plates too yep it's a really good thing on it on an Amer yeah that's that's what my yeah and that's it's it's big for business is because it allows us to cover um cuz they're the ones that are the majority of thefts occur um so it allows us to be able to locate those vehicles does it lower their insurance rates or save them any money at all I do not believe so I doubt it and if it comes down to it I can the gal from Flack would be willing to come in and give a presentation how many does Champlain have up to nine I think that's what I heard at the 88 meeting yeah nine or 10 and then I think Maple Grove is getting like 30 of them okay and we're proposing 10 10 yep it would cover every entrance into our city one thing I would like to try to get to because I think well at some point I guess we'll we'll have to talk about individual items um but what what's not clear to me yet is you know kind of what's what's baked into the budget what what we have to do for example increases that are related to the union contracts um you know so salaries and benefits on on existing employees that are covered there you know we have to do it right we're not we're not negotiating a new deal for Mid contract and I understand what you said about the the police one being you know negotiated it'll be what it is so we can only assume a number there but we'll have to pay that right we're going to agree to a contract and we'll and we'll pay that so we know that increas is there whatever percent that is on current salaries and and budgets and there's other operational things like the loss of the the arpa dollars you know that that we have to account for right because we we're not going to have that revenue and so there's kind of the the must do things you know we have that we have no choice on that's that's this much of it and then we've got the list of things that that we want to do mhm right additional staff and yep and Beyond and if you could break that out in a way for me because we I'd like to see that so I asked Zach this question earlier and assuming this is still true I think this is the like a month and a half ago the ARA dollars were 182 665 the half an officer that we approved for this year that then would become a full officer next year was 70,000 right so that's an example of an increase where we've done it we already approved it we've got we've got allow in the budget and then the increase in salaries for staff already hired was $291,900 which gets to your other question there's probably when I ask the question those are the three things I got that were already approved this year for next year which added up to like almost over $500,000 yeah and so what I'd like us to be able to get to is you know those things that that we have to do we don't need to talk about they're in there but what is the the cost of that and then you know how far are we willing to swing above that and live with the levy that we're going going to approve ultimately and what's what's in that soj two buckets for Me overall a majority of this Levy is again in the bucket of not have to again then most of the um Capital ones are all want to or we want to focus on those items overall um there are some general fund ones that are obviously in there too again roughly rough numbers are probably around 300,000 or 350,000 that's you know needs to and then the rest are probably focuses on try to figure out how we can make operations better here overall and and how we can make those work but I can most certainly get that to you it's going to be you know kind of here's what we have to do and then so the one thing that's going to be hard the only one I'm going to have struggle with is the fire department because I need more direction from console and I don't have a lot of time for that direction unfortunately is the have TW is for that is I'm going to have to rerun numbers for if we were to keep the current system for increases in the budget next year and I have to work with the che on that because I don't have those numbers cuz we didn't plan on that as in in the budget um but we can most certainly get those numbers for Council to say here's if we kept the current system and then here's if we went to the Judy creu system because again there's some offsetting cost there it's not a only increase on those I thought you had listed some of those already in yeah I listed those so the ones that were in there were related to if we went to the two full-time Duty Crew model systems right then you'd have the savings of 38 correct you got it but if I just say okay have to of what do we have current model and then increases cuz we're going to have an increase in revenue or expenditures related to having more part-time staff yep so I just don't have those numbers directly and I can figure those out yeah I think that would be useful to see what we have to versus the whole thing sure because I definitely have a problem with the whole thing um sure at some point we should talk to about um the temp fund sure there's a lot of money sitting there that could is possibly be you know weaned out for capital projects yes I would re if we're going to do anything with those dollars I would recommend using them for onetime purchases or Capital purchases versus ongoing operations just because it's easier for budgeting purposes um which I can agree with I don't know what the for example the the I mean I I'm not saying that this would be a good idea or bad but pavement it might even you may even argue it was in the spirit of the temp fund so yep I mean you know stuff like that I think um yeah 300,000 it saves you 3.8% which means you're going to have a tax rate decrease next year just cut that one item at $300,000 you're going to have a decrease next year in the tax rate how much the money that we were talking about earlier that we get back now in 26 how much is that yeah how much is that year I'm not going to say number because I don't know what enough that approximate time is 300,000 more or less no yeah probably yeah it's probably 392 I think that was last year 392 400,000 so cuz my concern is we offset a reoccurring cost with the onetime thing but if we're going to get money in 26 that then yes one time yeah yeah that's why I wanted to make sure ex I didn't know what the dollar amount was CU what I what I what I struggle with is when we use onetime money to offset reoccurring costs oh sure because we're setting ourselves up for the like for the following yep all the I know they do that's okay the county has a lot of things I don't like either so just because they doesn't mean I want to I just I that's so yeah I would say in this case then I could get on board with that and saying think you also have Greatful money coming in next year too we do not not not till 2 oh 267 yeah it's 26 so that leads me to uh more fundamental question around um around our value so the county does the does the assessment they do the the number B to give us our our total tax base right you got it yeah houses that that come in new so we built 200 and change 201 houses last year yep um now we don't get full tax value out of that in year one that comes in over a couple of years doesn't it just just lot then some improvement then finally full meal tends to jump it goes from lot until house it t yeah it depends on when the house is being built and how much percentages is done as of January 2nd so on January 2nd the assessors go around the city and task how what percentage they're done with and that's where people come in and argue the valuations of the houses with okay I think it was this percentage done and not this percentage done and then they'll say for but typically two years so the total property value for the city is it phased in over a couple of years like that the county uses those numbers to say in year one the taxable value is this and okay tend to be we're not looking at last year's houses in any meaningful way we're looking at two years ago that are coming online now I mean portion of those obviously next year is going to be yeah so I mean again so if you look at the 200 homes we built last year I would say half of those come in this year and then half of those come in next year so we get half of the house in 25 and then half of the the other half of the house in 26 um for valuations to your point sure but more were built in 22 than in 23 where I'm going so we've got a bigger number coming in to that 16% increase in in value and that's the new construction number of that's driven more by two years ago than it is last year that's correct yep we got a portion of them coming in for this year but again most of them are going to beug and if we get projects that kind of fall apart like seems like we've gotten a couple of them now that a commercial project oh yep so we just had uh what was it I seen the last one yeah the the one you added to consent today oh that's skel yeah skel apparently I didn't realize that they they had not built yet I I don't know what they're doing yeah all right so any final closings before we anything else if you have something else from the budget please send me an email happy to provide those back it will provide everything with the have twos to everybody all the Cults members so you have all that and then I got notes got 10% number that's what I got so far and then a couple of notes about it and credit card fees I I I think I'm going to be much closer to that number than the 18 so okay I don't know if you but you already got a lot of that information right earlier yeah we got some of it yep yep all right anything else specifically otherwise we will move on to the take a short break quick and then move on to the this going to be a reoccurring first meting of the month budget conversations now okay okay we going to adjourn if there are no objections I was going to hold out but all right