for e e e July 9th good evening mayor members of council um we are here to review the long-term plan again this is a rough draft and is not a document that we use as a binding document again as a um reminder this is just a document that we use for referencing and so we can start planning off for the future nothing on this document is approved until it is brought back to council for approval at a later time in the year that is um estimated at um so we're staff put the long-term plan together based on what we've received from employee requests um our requests resident requests um other options that we have and so we give to the council and then you guys make changes ask questions um we do our best to provide C cip1 Pages I'm sorry that we didn't get those out earlier um we will get I will give you guys electronic versions of that so you may ask questions later on after this um this meeting is just to ask questions get feedback from the Council on any major things that you see um again everything we're really focus on is the next two years but obviously there is ATT your plans we want to put some things out there in the future if you have questions on something way out please let us know we can most certainly get the back to you but we're really more focused on the next two years um which are in the CIP one pages that are in front of you today so I will hand the floor back up to the mayor councel and we'll look for question I'll start with sorry we'll start with fund one 401 just so we're not bouncing around too much we'll start with fund 401 the front page here um which is our Capital Equipment fund once we have questions out of those are are done with questions then we can move to the next fund but anybody got questions did the the 16t Toro more really go up $50,000 from the last estimate it did go considerably but we did add a cab to it as well um uh just because uh operators prefer to have the air condition cab for that used in the summer and it's also protection from flying debris from the mower as well you mean mean Kurt's complaining about air conditioning that's right is yeah I think you should that we could take out his salary that wouldn't leave a lot right exactly could take a while and then also the ask about the front end loader that was on for 250 and now in this document it's 320 but it looks like in the one pager it's four yeah that went up considerably but we did take off the um the blower the snow blower from that uh there was a snow blower and a uh loader at one stage we remove the the blower um to try and absorb some of that cost but um the original cost was uh gotten three or four years ago um and we just got a brand new quote on it um in February this year and the price was $400,000 now with the blower uh without the blower okay it's got all the snow package so um part of that my confusion that is I left it as a snowblower for the front end loader which is 80,000 on the document here because we've had that always as $80,000 and I just updated the front end loader cost from 250 to 320 so at a total we'd have 400,000 it sounds like it's just the front end loader for 400,000 now correct so I only need to update that because we'll remove the snowblower for the front end loader which is 80,000 and then add it to the 320 on the document that you see in front of you so you can see basically 400,000 we've always had 330 in there though so we had 250 for for yeah for the front and loader and 80 for the snowb don't you have don't we have a couple of those already we have one that's a 1996 or something like that a John Deere um that is unreliable now it's very loose in the steering and everything it can't be used for snow plowing um we do have a 2008 that is used on the snowplow route what I'm trying to do is get rid of the John Deere moved the cap from 2008 to take up the duties of the old John Deere loader which is basically down to loading trucks at this stage um but this would also give us the capability of having a backup plow if we needed it with the the 2008 unit um so it's just moving out one and adding a new unit that's going to be reliable and there for us to use when we need it what's the 92 worth sorry what's the 92 worth uh I don't know but that we we would look at trading that in okay on these on these uh one pages I haven't Incorporated values on there but anything that we've got we're going to try and trade in um especially as we get into close to having uh you know the vehicles that we need and we just need to have a replacement uh cost going through on the CIP that's what I'm trying to get to so there's not all these big purchases all the time it's just replacement cost that we can spread out um so and with those cases we will always try and resell the the the equipment as we should get better values doing it that way we got a 2006 at the moment that we're not use and we're going to sell that we probably get 500 bucks for it so um that's part of the the idea is to have you know value left in them when we try and resell um I'm also wondering it looks like the brine storage move from 24 to 27 yeah that's also the cost increased on that because we need a bigger a bigger un and we want a delivery system um before it was just a tank and a pump this is a little bit more sophisticated and we're looking at 27 because that is when we're looking at making an addition to the public Workshop so that would tie in we could have a dedicated spot for it within the new um plan for that works Workshop where was the mo pulled in s again where was the moer pulled in you talking about the 16 foot mower talk that's what you're talking about yeah I believe so the groundsman yeah yeah yeah that was up because we're starting to get um cost for bits and pieces on there but again to be bigger expenses like hydraulic motors and solenoids and stuff the ra yeah and some of the decks aren't raising when they should and we've had a lot of issues with that kind of stuff um and that's something else you look at yeah cuz that's an older machine we bought it used um 2009 I think it was 3800 hours or something yeah it's got 3,800 hours so it's starting to show it wear and tear um that is a self-propelled unit so it's got a lot more time on the road driving between Parks as well other than just Mowing and stuff so um it's it's getting to the end of its life pretty much but there will be some res resellable value on that that we will trade in against a new one there was a swap too so we we had the utility tractor in 25 which was 130,000 and then um the Toro 16-footer in 26 and we flip-flop those so utility tractor so it's not really I would say an increase cost because we just Flo the two big purchases years based on I would guess based on or yeah quality or the current state just the maintenance cost going up up we'd rather get rid of that now and put the mow other tractor out till next year conditioning on the old one either if you take out the air conditioning it's probably going to be the same price I don't know how much that is but probably not days light today mhm well then you know the cab is kind of nice just for isolation of things it's dirt dust all the stuff that get kicked up noise air flow Sun ergonomics Sun yeah Sun quality of life work spaces sorry um maybe it's in the one pagers but what is a signed truck a signed truck is a truck that um is equipped for basically it's for signs but it's going to be used for other things so it's allows you to have a post puller on there um a boom out there so you can reach into the ditches the post in there um it's got storage in there for all of the signage stuff and bolts and all the bells SP stuff that you need when you have a break off um pole like we see up here on the uh roundabout all the time so it's going to be a a truck that's pretty much dedicated to that um which is something that we're trying to do as a department have these vehicles ready to go um for when you need them in emergency um so it will be used for that primarily but there will be other uses for it as well mailbox replacement from wintertime activities again s mailbox replacement for wintertime activities some of those yeah yeah some of those but um it's also uh we're combining two units there um from before um what was on there before um it were it's different than the bucket truck right yeah it's totally different than the bucket truck um I don't think I've got a good pict I had sign truck to one and a half ton utility sign truck from 90 to 180,000 but I thought you had another oh then we removed a F450 550 with utility body for that's the utility body we combined that into one truck basically so they took two trucks and combin it into one truck versus the sign truck and a 450 they made it one truck with yeah so we put utility body on it as well so that can help with repairs and and stuff on other trucks if something happens out in the field then we got a vehicle to go out to help um you know if the skid St is broken down somewhere we got a truck with tools and stuff that can go out and do stuff on site will it be able to do anything with light poles or just signs I think um some of the street lights it could possibly do but we've got the bucket truck which would be more of a use for that so because that's not it's in 2027 we do not have a one pager on that so 25 and 26 we only have one page for could you use that for like I'm thinking like good questions but I just want to make baseball field maintenance and the fence post and those kind of like when they're like the the side they've got the chain link fence and the back yeah we could do use it for those kind of repairs too okay yeah I think there'd be multiple uses that we'll find for it as we as we go along um Gary you I know you've got a one pager in here and I didn't quite get through the whole thing um so could you talk a little bit about the grass rig and yep so currently we you're doing there yeah so stage one has rescue 11 um that was last year request to be replaced at $425,000 um due to the change in How We Do current operations where we are running the engine out the door on all calls and making it kind of a One-Stop toolbox if you will um the need to replace that there isn't a need at F 425 so we're moving down to separating the grass truck out to it just like a 3/4 ton or a one ton whatever with a skid in it that way it doesn't get stuck as well cuz that grass rescue truck is extremely heavy and gets stuck um places currently the the one is got a significant oil leak um that needs to be replaced the tune of about $88,000 it's an 06 so going this way fundamentally reduces my request last year by 325,000 we're going to purchase a uh Suburban Expedition whatever um out of our one-time Public Safety dollars um which will give us the ability for people to be transported um to fires or to um training currently we're paying um per mile on that when they go out of the city to pay for mileage um so that'll come out of that so really the ask for next year is $100,000 um for the replacement of the or the grass truck is what it is at the end of the day so we're looking at spending 100,000 versus 425 and with this also well this is more of a people carrier I'm just wondering it doesn't seem like we have anything that's sort of dedicated for the medical calls that would be a people carrier slash to respond to the medical calls as well SUV with uh a oxygen a medical bag in it will meet our needs just fine in that capacity so that one's not on there the one he's representing the Suburban Expedition part you're mentioning c f is because I'm on the one time safety versus this just all right well good I'm just hopeful that we keep to keep focusing on those cuz that's the majority of the calls that we got other rigs that are optimized for other situations like grass fires and right yeah and that's where that combination of bringing everything over to the engine and looking at the big picture I said when the approval is made for the ladder um a couple Council meetings ago we are fundamentally set I think big picture- wise for um any significant pieces of apparatus even to include Station 3 where once the other ones come come in and we move some things around that we have we should be good as far as uh large equipment pures uh eventually for station I know we're F trying to focus on the next two years but you had another grass rig for Station 3 is that something you would then reevaluate no that would be the same that would be a grass rid there as well um probably about $100,000 in that capacity sure um I guess my last question is for Paul can't get away on gate um you know we had some discussion came from came up through the Eda around that camera system the system yeah and I I don't see that on there are we not interested in it or is that getting funded in a different way that we put in our general budget your general budget yep so Zach can you maybe talk about why it be in one place versus the other so the flock system is a onetime is a cost that you pay every single year so you don't have a onetime upfront cost it's just an annual cost every single year you have subscrip subscription based system it's not really Capital Equipment correct it's not Capital Equipment because if it's Capital Equipment there's a onetime cost and then there could be some sort of subscription cost every every you know year of much less value or much lower cost whereas operations with the block system is it's I think it's $3 or $440,000 and it's every year 30 or 40,000 so at least the machine basically it is yeah you least the camera something happens to the camera they replace it for us on them not us yeah on them not us that's correct so that's why it's not in the capital is cuz it's not a capital item it's just least it's a reoccurring you got it's a reoccurring cost that does not change unless you know they have a major change in costs that's all I have for this f um phone's going up can you take it off the table vibrating yeah no we canar we can hear we can hear it that's how we know what's going on thank you I'm like C cage tomorrow have fun with that um so the the uh the squads went up to 2:30 was that what was that so that includes the equipment yep and the lease payment right yes that is correct so the reason why the increase was there some know an additional um I believe it was an extra Squad that was added for replacement goes up every year four years looks like correct yeah so it's additional squads so in 202 um we looking at 2025 right okay so 2025 the idea would be to go from six vehicles to nine vehicles on the lease system so right now I'm budgeting for in the lease schedule so the lease costs went up per month for Enterprise is who we use the lease program for um they're 1150 per month for an admin vehicle and 1250 a month for a squad vehicle that's used on the road um the reason why I went up is cu I'm using the entire cost it will be less than that when we trade in the vehicle so what happens right now is when we trade in give them back a vehicle they sell it in the open market whatever we get for that we then put it against the lease payments every single month so let's say we got you know 10 grand for it that 10 grand goes against those lease payments for so it' be almost $1,000 a month it goes against those it's it's still looking like a much better deal than what we have yeah it's a much better deal and those they don't get the repair and maintenance that we've had so like for example we have one vehicle right now that's 3 years old and now we got a what $12,000 engine or something we got to buy we wouldn't have that on the least vehicle program because it would just be take care of it and that's it it would be under warranty too we're not replacing that one early we're putting an engine in it we unfortunately my squad builds are pushed out till December and January so we have two lease Vehicles we're paying for and we can't get outed so so that's why I need it on the road and outfit it me it's like lights Sirens all the stuff we we have them sitting at this I think they're either here or they're public works yeah sitting here ready to go and they can't get license stuff on them so the 2028 tender it says it was what's a tender that's an engine tender that was already previously purchased that was the pumper that we repl that station one so we had an engine and we had a tanker and we combined those two pieces of equipment and Ed different funding sources to pay for it so it says previously funded is because it is previously funded so I want to make sure that everyone knows that we're we're going to get it in roughly 2028 um I can either remove it completely off the off the CP if you'd like me to I just put it as previously funded so you know what's coming in right well I just seen the 475 above it for the tanker 11 so that's the where the funding part of the funding comes from and the other part was the sale 11 that's what I 427,000 was 450 minus 22 Yeah so 427 so 427,000 came in from the sale of engine 11 which we put right back into the fun right away we'll use the funding from 2026 to 475 and then the difference is um a onetime increase in the uh one time increase in the levy that will'll pay for it over a couple of years till we get the vehicle oh so that's not showing up either the three yep that is not right now it's not I think the difference is 10 looks like it's it's about 100 yeah it's about 280 but then we also are going to sell um utility utility or not utility utility utility 21 that's a big box truck we're going to sell that and put that towards the purchase of the engine tender so it'll be40 150,000 something like that left over to pay for it and that'll just be a onetime levy increase that's already Incorporated in the levy that you see um and that'll be increased for 3 years it'll be on the be 50 Grand a year okay yeah I know what's out but 2028 is looking like a banner year for de I would I would uh I would agree it's coming quickly yeah okay yeah so I can either remove it I don't it's up to the council would you like to see would you want me to remove it completely com to me is you know yeah I think that that should stay on there just so you know it's coming right I mean obviously you keep track of it but again it's previously funded and we've already paid for it so we know the exact or want I know exactly it's going to be no different than the latter anybody else have anything yeah if you have any comments questions opening things around or want to know more things please let send an email either Marty or myself and we mostely get back to you again this is not finalize this is just totally preliminary okay no other question on 401 we'll move to 404 again all the changes are noted in red um so wasn't any changes on fund 404 most of these were added last year these are either cdaa requests um but this is the fund 404 is cdaa money that they give us every year for renting out um the fields and part of it goes towards operations and part of it goes towards um Capital needs this is some of the capital needs that they're looking for like the batting cages and the shade shelter for River B Park have been all cdaa requests Andor City request that we can use from CDA nothing changed here from last year to ex do our um the rent money we get for the park park lot does that go into here or that so part of it goes in here so they always give us like a donation above and beyond basically for letting us use the letting them use the fields so it's typically they talking about CDA I mean resident R does not go into here that goes into um operations as in the general fund for Park rentals so it does go to us it just goes into the general fund for operations cuz that's typically like we have to go there and we'll to maintain it maintain it or remot it or make sure it looks nice but take care of garbages whatever assuming no questions on 404 if you do let me know I can also Stop Fun 405 so you will see some changes here unsure of again what to do with the total dollars the main thing that has changed on this one is related to braver and trails Sundance neighborhood park um phas I obviously added a j there I need to change that it's a nice the JS um and then uh that's for a million dollars so basically what happened is when we designed that Park most of the money ended up being on the north side of the park I'm unsure right now we had it budgeted at 500,000 and then 600,000 in two years for doing phase one and phase two um on the plan now is a million dollars basically moved up into 2025 for phase one because that seems to be the most significant portion and phase two is in the following year 2026 that's for 200 Grand so a total um change of $100,000 between the two phases but again most of it is in phase one we didn't know that when we were planning for it on the um Park dedication fund I think we went over this before but the park money we we get and are getting for the development yes all four phases or whatever you want to call them yes that easily accounts for this correct and that way how close are we though to where we may not necessarily want to populate the South sou 10 or South um yeah so the total acreage of that Park after all is 2 and a half acres on each Corner the total would be a 10 acre Park after all said and done um if you do decide or the council decides that they don't want to have that southern half of that which would be 5 Acres we do not have to have it but that's just what the current plan is yeah now I I guess what I'm asking is is if it if it's up fair to to do it or not because I'm looking at 2028 again and our Park fund is looking like it's looking rough mhm 2028 is a banner year there's a lot of things going on in 28 actually we're also planning on building like a giant Event Center at Elsa Stevens right million yeah again no plans have been shown besides a little box on a map that shows or where it might be yeah where it might be and what it might look like but it's just just want to make sure that we we're allocating and I don't remember if the number is 75% or whatever of the park funds from the development to the local park whatever that number is yeah I believe that number was a little higher I think that was 80 or 85% of the total was 78 let me do math like 88% or something yeah that sounds right of that whole development basically of the costs that come in for Park dedication fees went back into that neighborhood park right only so only 12% of it goes into other parks and is that because that's kind of a formula we have or that's cuz that's what results that's resulted that's that's what I want to get at is it seems like we should have some sort of a because what if it came out at 100 would we back down because now nothing's going into the Central Parks or even the regional parks yeah the council should be aware that that's happening which most certainly shouldn't be known that um the normal rate is roughly 75% what I'm wondering normal rates of parks the problem now is that our Park dedication fees haven't raised as much as it costed us to do the parks next question is are we raising fees to accommodate that because if we raising the fees on it we know everything's going up me inflation on that stuff's gone up 20% in the last two years so if we're not raising rates to that those two yeah the park and the trails we want to make sure that we're we have we need to do another study to figure out where they're at um we did it six seven years ago I know Tina did something six or seven years ago and just planned out a 5year schedule um which was fair close we've been following it but I think we did a 5% raise last year on the on the fees but again in two years they've gone up 20% we've only gone up 10 yeah we're not covering those costs yeah it seems like we should we should be at we should be looking at inflationary costs in general every year and looking at raising our fees least match inflationary cost because everything costs 10% more in the world on average you can't imagine the Park's not going to cost about 10% more in this case it's even more than that because that particular like parks and irrigation all those industries were hit exceptionally hard with inflation the last few years and so it doesn't surprise me those went up by even more than what standard inflation was but it was like what 7% and then the year before that it was like 8% this year it's on Pace for they like five or 6% so yeah the last time we would have went out for Parks bids would have been in 21 for 22 so we didn't look at them for two years basically and in those two years we had exceptional inflationary the other thing is he said we at least know we we can adjust what's going in also correct I mean if if the equipment itself is going to cost 7 8 10% more then maybe we put in less equipment depending on what we can do with the rate sure and it seems like that rate we should be looking at that just like water just like sewer yep yeah we'll I'll take a look at it and see if I can figure something out if I can't I'll let the council know and will come back with some sort of development oop sorry Mr Mayor I was just going to say that Trails is the same thing except trails are in better shape but I think that's because we didn't do anything we haven't done much I would agree unbelievably expensive they are they are very expensive so either I'll look at both of them parks and Trail fees and like I said I'll get back to the council if it seems like it's something I can do most you know with some some easier calculations I'll do it but if not then I'm guessing it's based on developable land and how much is going to be in the next 5 10 years and then costs and what you think it's going to build out to when we change the fees when does that Effectiveness come into play what I mean by that is if we change the fees today and a lot is not sold today and built and then tomorrow it's sold because that lot was approved a while ago is it the old fees like when are the fees is it when the house is sold so I'm thinking we have the when the building permit is applied for development it's the development sorry sorry yeah final thank you because when we've got Dean Country Manor Farms that area that's coming in we have have we final I forget sometimes are we have final plat for bra Trails part two part two that's already been final so like as we think about what's going around here we should also then be thinking about we need to get those increased before those other things come into place so that way when it comes to funding the extra cost as the mayor point it out we can get back in line with what 75% or average 75% is to make this feasible for the neighborhood so I don't know we can change the fees whenever correct correct yep so this might not be something we want it goes in effect 10 days after approval based on ordinance because it's an ordinance so basically when you approve it on the meeting it takes 10 days for it to be effective I guess what I'm saying is I don't want to wait until next year we do the Fe schedule we should be figuring this out now cuz we already know what's a problem and get implemented before we lose yeah we didn't change the multif family one that we did yeah and that was a that could have been yeah correct when I forgot zero a good point is more of that money should be set aside for the Central Park well or we never going to get that gets back to the 75% right yeah that's the right and again that's just what it's worked out to be yeah um I don't know if it was ever a set ratio that was ever set by the council that's what I don't know no and I think that'll come out in the math right because if you know you have the Central Park these Regional Parks you you now kind of know you know what the split's going to be correct yeah cuz the one thing that we can't plan for is if changes happen so if it's not $5 million for the you know LC St SP 5 maybe it's 8 million now we have to try to figure out how we or at we adjust or years accumulate the funds correct you got it yeah so my other question related to that well braver and LC Stevens is are those next phases being actively planned right now yes because we we clearly we got burned this year on Stevens with not getting plans done in time to bid and you know if we're backing up on that are we are we going to be far enough along to use this money next year I guess is where I'm so the stuff that was going to be done this year is going to be done next year and next year will be the planning year generally for the next next part the next phase of Stevens so that isn't actively being planned currently but it will be according to the master plan we should probably start the 26th planning now yeah that's that is I have a new uh step by step how we should uh uh approach these so it will start in the fall this year and go through next year's the planning year for that and then the build is the following year I don't know if we should wait till the fall I think we should start start out cuz we wait till fall for the one that we missed this year so we start earlier that's why we're playing catch up we trying to get that one done but we will be looking to use some other people so maybe I going say are we looking yeah I've got a couple of people that are interested in doing some stuff with us Ms say the people who are doing the water trails are very interested in doing that and and the band probably they're big yeah so that I would imagine the planning cost is going to go up considerably for for those because you know from Paul on his own to using a company that have got all the resources there it's probably going to be a significant uptick in what we're paying for that but you know at least we know there that we're getting the use of all those we can get it done in time that's what you're paying for basically I still think it's worth starting now I wouldn't wait until fall because doesn't hurt to have the extra time and get a head on it that doesn't hurt us so not doing nothing for technically I'm trying to get 24 we're still doing the irrigation stuff and the bridge as far as shelter nothing we're trying to get that into the program as well so we're currently trying to get the this was my update for tonight Paul's having the irrigation systems designed by contractor once those are done we can get the bid documentation finalize and get that out to bid for late summer um fall um installation for that um currently he's working on upgrading the wheeler bridge plans that we did for the pl Park already but separating those out to Baseline bids so we know what the quantities are and do a separate bid package for those and so those two items are what we're trying to definitely get done this year if we can get um uh the construction stuff for the um band shelter and uh the picnic shelter um we will do that but we want to also have that as a a line item bid so everybody's been in at the same thing so we avoid any um change orders later on um that's you know how I want how we should do it and do we feel like we're going to be far enough along with braburn to to be able to do construction on that next year yeah braen that those construction documents should be finished by uh ready forbidden in January so bra they should be done by the winter this year yeah and I guess we don't have to solve this tonight but it seems to me like since we kind of kicked the can with the phase two here I know you're trying to get some pieces of it done but wouldn't it would it be possible to comine combine the balance of phase two and phase three and get that all so this would be phase three the one we the one we missed this year was phase three as yeah Yep so LC stepen phase three was this year so see step phase two was last it says phase three on your for 25 on correct y so that's phase That's That was supposed to be in 24 basically was just like it got moved out it got moved out that's what you're saying that's is that a mistake that she was funding from cdaa oh yep that's that's okay um I mean i' love to so what yeah so that should that was supposed to be 24 um but it didn't get done which is the same thing for braver trails and I own Gardens those are all supposed to be all 24s is it already funded then yes so um so the park dedication doesn't have any Levy dollars going towards it it's only based on uh developer p so all I did was just have as a cash flow to show where the money is actually being spent and when it's being spent just so you know what the balance is when you look at the cash on the next page that's correct that is correct and what is do we even have a phase four so phase four is there I I have something in there I don't know what it is I couldn't tell you I don't know exactly what it is that was put a lot of these numbers were put in there as the ear marks just because we knew that we were going to get there um I think phase four will take more planning yeah which is why we're starting it this fall or earlier is it'll be a year and a half before we even see a bid document but it's going to be a full year of what do you want to see there maybe have some Community engagement part of it um because I don't know what phase four looks like we one and two were really much pretty much mapped out three was kind of let's throw some things at the wall and see what works and then phase four is nothing the only thing that's in Phase five is five might be the same thing want to see El even get finished just like everyone else but I don't just want to spend the money cuz it's earmark like we need a plan what this looks like and what what approximately it's going to cost we can budget appropriately I think we need to for four or five and anything beyond that we need to start thinking about bigger picture what does that look like more than just we're going to throw a, bucks at the park and see what we can get for I'm assuming Parks is going to work on four yeah to some extent oh yeah my only concern is it' be nice if they knew what was going in there or planned what was going in before they see a dollar amount but M you know what I mean yeah I know what you mean and this was just you know a place marker basically we knew that going you up a little bit I get it the idea was to use the the master plan to you know be the schematic for this and there things on there that need to be done but there was no specific order in which we would get to them well the other problem is if we're allotting 25% of all the park dedication money that comes in we need to them figure out between now when that goes how much money we're going to have C acide specific to that because a million dollars might not be the right number yeah it could be 1.5 it could be half a million I could you may have to add phases yeah you may have to space out add phases do smaller steps to fund it yeah you got it we we got to get better on the finances behind that say maybe this needs to be a a separate discussion because it goes across more than than just this spending but it seems like in 28 we have problems in a lot of funds yeah no no not any real problems you're just going to pull the cash register pull the money the M Scott yeah 2020 seems to have been a it's always been the year of we're going to give lots of money so that's why 2020 it's been year again it's not it's just out there and we can move it and adjust it I don't disagree residence up set like well I thought it was coming in 28 people look at do look at this believe would think Al some like what moved it back to 2030 think in in total Ian the parks fund goes in the red that year the you know we've got a bunch of r things talk about other Trail that's possible that extra million bucks had that Splash Pad could get moved up and save some money maybe right where that Barn is right now historic cost of void it's not saving money so you want to talk about the splash P um that one that one that one yeah it's way out there it's not worth talking about I can ask you move it up huh you can move it up well that number is way out of line I mean it's just a that's way out of line what's out of line five 450 you can build one for about two and a quarter oh um it up so we've been putting 150 in for a community park for a while and this this is another uh kind of a generic question but we don't we don't earmark these these fs and so we end up seeing a fund balance come up and suddenly there's a fund balance there to spend we did it the same I'm guessing we put I think it was 40K for three City Signs into somewhere and I don't know where that's at no Capital facilities yeah still in there it's still in there yep yep I mean they're still in there in here is there any reason we can't have three different funds one that's for the community park one that's for the land the 75% one that's for the 25% so we can keep track of what's where and use it appropriately it's just more can yeah it's just more spread Che more FS I mean it just makes sense to me if that's how we should be if that's how we say we're going to spend it we should be do seem like we should you should be allotting it that way it only makes sense ra rather than saying oh gez there's 2 million there we can buy something right yeah well even back when I used to do personal banking there was a study that said if you've got one savings account you're always going to meet your first your cheapest goal you got seven accounts to every seven things you're saving for eventually you'll reach all your goals because you'll know that that money is for the big thing and this is for the small thing so it's the same concept in your head you've allocated it and yeah the council want to do that I you know I it is directly going to impact the amount of effort you have to put in but I mean I yes what are we talking like to some granularity hours a year of effort or like it's not I don't know the it's always it's no different than anything else it's the most work at the beginning when you started yeah and then after that then it just takes a little bit of time to figure out what's the best proc but maybe it Parks it makes sense to once we come up this formulary we we say this is for Regional Parks I don't know I don't know how much and and there's a cost payback and I don't know what that break point is so what what I'll put together sounds like to me it sounds like we need a a park basically racial plan that we want to use for paration dollars which is fine and I can put that together and the counil can approve it that way a plan we know what we're doing and then that out of that will come the funds of the designation or the percentage or whatever the Cil wants to do which is fine do we get 150 Year from cdaa for that no oh that was another question I had in general but probably nothing I don't know that they have they ever given us seed money for anything so well so we have cost Shar they have verbally yeah it's not in the account I know it is not in the account I know they I don't to some exent I don't blame them let's say they have $2 million they're willing to spend on something yeah I could see them not wanting to give it to us to buy the land they have nothing to with the land like in my mind it be like okay you guys get the land and then we'll put 2 million towards the development of the park so then it's usable they want to make sure that they're going to give the money it gets to a state where it is now actionable so I don't blame them for like saying we have the money we're willing to put it in but not until you buy the land buy the land and we'll do it it's not just there it's even with equipment so the only money I've seen them give us is a yearly allocation okay they they do fund stuff like um the dugouts that going in they added you know $25,000 for that um and then the B cages they're pretty much paying for all of that those installation costs so when we've asked them for equipment they've come through with those kind of I just know when I I spoke to a couple of them a couple years back over a possible uh um Athletic Park and when I mentioned um Capital Money got Qui well that's interesting cuz I talked to one of the people that is very involved in the baseball side of it he said if you guys get the land we'll develop it we're good to go there just get the land so we can get it moving as his argument was the argument I made which made sense to me which is why would I give you the money to buy the land then just have land with no fields on it that doesn't help CDA at all well then maybe you know they give us a contract that says we'll put it in within so many years but yeah I mean that initial seed money is where we so I've heard the same thing that Matt has I don't know if it's unun CDA is told told me that yeah once you eat the land but if that's their concern then they should be able to come forward and say let's have a contract that says you'll you'll and I I bet you if we were actively I'm going to say this actively looking ah had a plot we were looking at moving forward with they would do that but now it's like why would we dedicate that to you not you're going to execute it two months 6 months 9 months a year they didn't huh they didn't we did have an act we did have a plan we have property set aside and when I talked to him about it there was not a dime Okay so yeah that that is different than what I've heard recently so doesn't that was for the land again yeah yes nothing for the concern is that we get the land and not do anything with it then that's what a contract is for yeah sure so if we're actively looking for land then we I don't see a reason why we wouldn't engage with them and say hey if we get the land will you guys improve it improve it and if they say yep here's all I want we're going to put towards it then we know I'll reach out to my contact CDA see we can get something put together anything else on Park dedication Park dedication breaking it out the 1508 year towards the park and the remaining 7525 correct yeah so I'm going to put together an overall ratio plan C is going to then approve that says here's the plan we're following and then that I'll use that 150 per year for the community park and then I'm going to use the 75 25 as a starting and we can how many go back and figure out like how much the 150 should be added up to and how much yes I I can do the 150 that's pretty easy cuz I back how many years it's in there guesstimate what the 25 is left minus the LC stens payments for the past few we got to be able to we know how much we took in I'd have to recalculate years Pat they probably could it just would take I just want to start them all with zero balance today cuz that's not fair to what we've been well they wouldn't be because it's going to they're going to at least have whatever is in the park dedication Fe yeah okay anything else fund 406 this is one of them that where my formulas didn't add up as you can see there's no totals on the bottom of that line just wonderful so for 46 has so what 406 is this was started last oh take about two years ago with Donnie hell's develop um Park when we redid it there was part of the park that was already there that we could not use Park dedication dollars for because you can't use Park dedication dollars for Replacements you can only use it for new items so we partially used it for new stuff at Dell's but they had it also partially come from Levy dollars so that's where this fund started at and it was started at just uh 30 grand or 15 grand a year for two years and then it was 30 grand a year for two years and now it's looking to go to 45 in 2025 um Marty put together a little schedule of some things that looks they need to be replaced again Marty's guessing on replacement years not saying it's got to be that year or not Marty's looking at say it could be done this year and that's basically going off an average lifespan of a park of 20 to 25 years is what I I've heard from the manufactur is what you should expect from a playground I have corrected this it's the fund balance ends up being quite a bit less because we actually spending 250 a year for a few years when I again I corrected the formulas and they were now it shows a little worse but so what equipment the playground equipment you got 2 50 down that's a lot more than what I see there uh so playground equipment at clo Overlook that was I mean that's my best guess of what that's going to be there what was the estimate for the playground at at braver Trails we just got ballpark that was 180 oh is that it on that 187,000 yeah so is this expanding that it could be um I don't know what you know what I haven't got the actual prices but I'm trying to build in a little bit of inflation in there as well so I mean every playround is a little bit different different elements um this may you know what's there now may not be appropriate for you know what we want to put in there as well once El Steven develops and stuff and make it bigger too I mean yeah and that's what I was wondering if we were looking at maybe putting something down there just a little thing or something I I don't know we could change it out to you whatever we want at this stage think yeah there's some ADA compliance issues there as well that we would have to accommodate as well a clly Overlook that s there today yeah and the structures yes Pavilions and yeah structures that are down there this is one of my my longstanding pet peeves but we paid kind of a premium for that because it was maintenance free and it was it's going to be a long-term building and now we're 20 what years after putting it in well that was put in by hennipin County was that oh we did that okay well that was before I was even here then uh could be cly before you were in charge yeah well it was before Park yeah 2009 that's when we put the that made the playground equipment no the G or the uh structure I'm talking about the play it might have been before you time I guess the point is is that at the time um well we appr it said supposed to maintenance free and last forever and we spent a lot of money on it it was 40 Grand back then mhm okay um I just we need to be careful about when we're doing these lifetime buildings and stuff like that because they don't end they don't end up that way and again this might just be some structural work you know might need some additional welding or you know just repay in a sense necessarily the number the number you have there doesn't mean it's the number no he's just it's just the ball SP mean I don't don't got a structural engineer out there to check it over or any of that stuff yet so if if the park was built no9 should the replacement be if it's 25 years in the park 34 not 26 so this should be moved way out there to the very last years old based upon our 20 if our goal is replace Parks every 25 years that be 2029 yeah or if have 2509 34 yeah if we it's 20 25 is be the best used Park you ever had what that was it I say or if you have the extra 250 you can do the splash pad sooner yeah okay I just don't know where it's going and then we put that the structural stuff down there as well 450 we should be to go good Splash P all right I guess we're done with one thing I you want to change you want to change 26 to 34 I think should be budgeting for what every 25 years place in the Parks that's I mean so sounds like it needs to be 20 34 that's what I'm hearing yeah we that's fine um the other thing I wanted to add not related to any of those but the the Central Park yeah out here you know I know we're going to talk a bit about the parking lot piece of it tonight later but the uh you know the I learned this firsthand this summer um three or four days a week um that's a very busy Park there's lacrosse going on there's baseball on on all of the fields and there's one Porta poty sitting at the parking lot um that takes care of all those people now the parking is another story but I think I'll say more about that when we talk about the the extra dollars that we have um from something roads it's roads road yeah um but you know people are parked on the driveway out to the street out there and the lot at the elementary school is full when all of those events are happening at the same time so it's a well-used park I think that's great that's you'd like to see them all that way um but you know one one ouse kind of in not a real convenient spot is we could do better than that generally we have one uh by the PO uh by the uh ice rink there there's an enclosure there that usually has porta potty in there and I asked they were asked to put them uh out what they normally do so there's normally a minimum of two down there which is probably not enough but um I'm surprised that that one isn't that you're getting that running water in the right well we don't show you know on this and I know this is a pretty high level plan but we're not talking about that park at all in terms of refurbishing or upgrades and I think the we want to talk the parts commission should and we have looked at doing different things with that Park before and turn it around so to the soccer field is over on the school side and then the baseball fields are down the back here um we did some rough planning but it never got didn't have the drive to get you know to fruition so can ask a wonky question about that Park when we do actually get cold enough that we can put an ice rink in there does it get used a lot we have it takes up a lot of space to have that permanent ice rink there I'm not against it I think it's great to have it but I feel like we have less and less time to get ice out I don't know if there's been a winter since I've been on Council that we've been able to get an ice on there to make it you know depends on the year maybe two weeks and if those two weeks is heavily utilized cuz if it's not we're also wasting space and what that could be used for something else whether that be for better facilities or morec whatever I'm just saying pickall cour sure yeah Scott's favorite pickle ball court I will say um when we've had their eyes even this last year where it wasn't the best eyes judging by the amount of skate marks on the on it get used a lot I just didn't know this was me I just does it's just a matter of you got that whole Space sucked up for a month maybe I think i' given you something at one time already about a community Hibbing or somewhere that had um is using those spaces they paved I don't know if that's concrete or asphalt or what it is but underneath it to make it easier to make ice but also they converted them to pickle ball Co and some nice that'd be good use too you've got the space kind of tied up and be nice of it sounds like we want to put something part so you looking at adding a playground to that to the park back here is that schools got that yeah more ramp facilities and then what can we do to maybe utilizing that space better actually yeah I mean we did when you say facilities you mean restrooms yes whether that's more porta potties or even at like we spent a bunch of time at national parks and they've got you know very basic facilities that then they have get pumped out on a regular base and anything crazy but I'm sure they're not cheap because nothing's cheap than the government's involved but like I'm not saying we need running water in there and heat and AC I'm just saying like there's options for potties are better than them damn pits sure I don't know my opinion it gets cleaned out every week those things don't get cleaned out for the whole year that's fair and if something goes wrong we're not the it sounds like facilities restrooms and possibly reamp Central Markets out over here that's what I'm hearing and I'm not saying it's got to be next year I'm just saying in general revamp Central Park sounds like we want to R of the whole thing I we we should look at the use of it and see if we can better utilize some of the spes at least get it on the list of parts that we could look at you that there whole set of plans that we develop you for swapping that around and stuff and see where that takes us to I was thinking more revitalized sure currently that that structure that's down there now is that just used for storage in warming house uh storage from warming house yes okay add bathrooms to that or something permanent bathroom I'll get damag I'll be quick they get damaged frequently actually so I was just at at 3s park over the weekend and they make them out of cement slabs those things are like you still get graffi but it's pretty hard for kids to mess those up prison cuz there's like orang that's how lot the national parks are on too the problem is is the toilets get destroyed they come destroy the toilets yeah rip them off the walls yep you know that okay okay F 406 that sounds that one's good to go again one thing we want to talk about a look at is facilities restrooms and review Central Park in there sometime I just don't know when but I'll throw date in there and you guys can beat it up how is that funded that you said that fund has money that is tax levy dollars okay so those are just slowly accumulated again about next year's planed for 45,000 essentially it's 15,000 every 2 years is increased and we can looked at changing that around it making more or less than that start to understand what utilization well you know I more worky way but we do know how many correct Parks we have in place today got it and they're organization schedule you can figure out what we need yeah correct we didn't have them many parks 20 years ago right now we have way more Parks so that that fund will continue to be utilized which is why it's increasing every couple years try to get a seed money going do we depreciate the parking equipment yes so wouldn't we just want to increase this fund every year whatever the depreciation is is it depreciation or 25 year depreciation yes so then ESS whatever it depreciates every year is what should be going that fund every year to counter it correct um CU eventually at 20 years the value is zero no not necessarily cuz you're not going to replace every park at the exact same time when the exact replacement is some of them you do 20 years some of them you'll do 30 sometimes you'll leave it just revamp if you plan them all for 25 years someone come Lo us it'll out as I'm saying we got nothing today yeah the it should match a depreciation it should be pretty easy to figure out how much we should put in there every every year cuz we're doing the appreciation calculation now right yep okay that'd be planning your money he already has the number he's just got to put it in there and we got to L for it that's all out to yeah not rocket science so 408 408 okay so 406 is good 408 the only two changes I made or couple changes we made was move the two Trail extensions which are going to be done by the county part of the county project in 28 29 they move those out those are 100% fun funded by either thers or County so it's nothing from us yeah and the water Trails construction um again I threw a number of 2 million I have no idea if that's right or wrong I have zero clue I don't think maybe I have a hard time us funding the 3s Park water Trail connection I think the one at LC Stevens is only what 3/4 of a million dollars ballpark right around yeah and we have a we got a lot of funding for that already from yeah we have enough to pay for that so that's not coming out of any of this money really anyways so are we looking at I know we're talking to the DNR about possibly put one up at the boat launch and they might partner with us to cover part of that or all of it they're going to cover pretty much all of it so that won't cost us so the water Trail is not costing us right now A Penny as long as we get the gr money as long as we get we don't have the grand money yet we got the grand money we got the grand money we got the 4 million bucks no different we got enough to cover the LC Stevens portion oh yeah but not not the whole but the the $4 million but the other Park is a three District park corre so they get $88 million a year just for stuff if they want a water chill there they can put it in in my opinion that's where they're paid for comes from yeah yeah yeah correct so right now I have in here 2 million for 2025 for the water TRS it sounds like that we only want to spend what we have for grant money which is $ 850 correct which is we're not putting more money into it money plus well 750 from the Federal grant 100,000 from National Park Service that's 850 and then we got about what 60,000 from the state for the DNR one uh no we got 5 57,000 so I think we got 850 from federal and then we got 100,000 from National Park Service 950 a million and a half roughly some of that Federal funding will have to be used for the design portion of good impart oh does have to be used for that okay cuz we app to two water Trail it was for two water tra oh this is the same as the state thing yeah yeah yeah yeah so we're going to have to use part of that the minimal part of that just as a design okay effort for that so we might have to put a little bit in but those are put a little bit we go 90 to 100% covered somewhere yeah yeah they're pretty much covered and then with the other one they good in park thing you know that is going to be a joint venture between us and them at some stage we will be putting some money into it but the bulk of it is going to come from uh Three Rivers Park District or any grant funding that we can find so if I can find some federal funding for that for the City to put into that project you know that will help both first and the Tre Rivers Park District okay so it sounds like you want 50/50 Venture ship on that that's what I have down here we discussed but doesn't mean that could be 75 25 rivers in then City for the good and park one um yeah so we have phase one which is what the LC Stevens and the DNR Landing um that's the phase one is getting two launches and then the phase two is essentially the last one which is in Gooden Park yeah so 8020 at most I bet we between they have the the funding for it I'm guessing and we can probably get a bunch of grand money for it might be a little B left over it's going to be expensive cuz there going to be under pass there under the River Road so again this one's not funed by what I'm saying so we're not funding this by Levy so again this is just a one of the dollar to to go out so if I put 8020 that means we're spending 20% of $2 million which is 400 Grand oh not even that much 901 it'll by then it'll be more it'll who knows what it's at corre I want to budget the dollar amount more or less how much we think we're going to spend out of that fund I don't care how much the project costs I want to know how much are we going to spend and so it will be design allocation from us as well yeah as part of this thing with them and there would have to be a joint P agreement with them and that depend what's Incorporated I think and I know you don't like this but I think 400,000 is probably a fair number at this stage and if we can cut that down by ground funding that's obvious what we do but there' be the number that we would apply for it's 400,000 whatever that um they birkshire that seems like a huge number for that trail which one birkshire to West plus Trail in North Diamond Lake Road so that's because we have to get easement I was going to say that that assumes we can get easement correct and how long has this been on this for 2025 numerous years I want to say it's probably been I think it's since I've been here so it's been at least four years even longer I don't know and I think this was one of the ones that the path commission wanted to move on as well they this was one of the ones that they identified as being a priority so what you're referring to is the trail along North Diamond Lake Road not sure if it's on the North side or the Southside has been identified that would go to basically from birkshire to Vinewood and then down to 14th when it got to Vinewood essentially would we could either have it an on Street Trail since it's not a real heavily used one or we could look at building some sort of sidewalk right along the roadway or something I don't know what that would be like the purpose of that is that would connect when we have events at LC Stevens that connects if you live in Sundance Woods or Sundance greens you could bike all the way through Three Rivers bik all the way up Pine View and get there on a bike trail without having to bike down a county road yeah yep and that was this this thing creates north to south connectivity across the city which we don't have connects Pine View Meadows development that's correct um again not sure what the trail be on the North or South but that the reason why it's so expensive for the 00,000 is because we don't have any e and I have no idea how we don't know how much it costs even couldn't tell you we've never again the number not we had a million dollars we're going to spend this year on the trail that we're putting off till 29 so the funding's there which is good um yeah I think on the North side we have the easement uh looks like one property the problem is how do you cross the road then you cross at that corner right by 100 by right by Vinewood there safe Crossing either or is it better go by birkshire stra cross there and it could be impacted by whatever changes see that's the other thing is what are they going to do with that roundabout with that intersection are they going to really bollock up I mean cuz now you got a roundabout and you got Diamond Lake Road right and unfortunately the cony doesn't have any plans for it so I couldn't tell you what it's going to be that's also called Diamond Lake Road that little shot to Vinewood no that little yeah yeah yeah I didn't know that was called I didn't either until I was Vinewood oh wait there's two Diamond Lake roads North ah that looks like a mate whatever you know what I'm so I just think getting easan on the south you're going to pay out the wazu for that could but it depends on a safe Crossing if you want again that Crossing at who knows what and I don't know what they're doing with the r what the county is going to do or if they you they're going to put R there who knows they might just leave it they don't seem to think there's issues so the other thing uh I know buck buck wants to develop is and it's coming up 2030 is coming I don't know who Buck is he's right there at burshire and all that property right there that's where you get the ement he's yeah I think he's small yeah 2030 2030 that which well maybe that maybe that needs to move be moved out or something I there's no plans to even start it yet right no we we were focusing on the North Dayton River Road 142nd to clo until we got from the county and then we haven't re shifted our Focus yet on that on anything because we haven't heard anything so I mean I still continue to think if we're going to make LC Stevens the park we should be trying to get connectivity to it you even if even if it changes in five to six years it just makes sense to get connectivity to it for the next five six years we don't have no clue what that's going to happen so the main thing do you want to move forward on looking at a trail so we that then have to look at Acquisitions on either the North or the South side of the road does that seem something the culture wants to do or no otherwise we shouldn't move it at 25 we should move it out I think so I think so I got two you're getting the only connect the only connectivity you're getting you you've already got it in the uh the big development there going to Stevens so right now if there's really nothing nothing here if you live north Dayton Road if if you're north of Dayton Road North Diamond over there there's no connectivity than to get you to Elsa Stevens sure there is where you're going out the North End of uh River Hills okay so I get to River Hills now I'm on a County Road that's 50 m hour with my 9-year-old da right underneath the road to get this no no no no I'm talking North Diamond Lake Road not Dayton Road I know I know yeah there's nothing there's no there's no homes on North time laor Road what I'm trying to say is how are we connecting the Vinewood neighborhood Hood and the um granstrom Circle and all of the south side of town to LC Stevens there's a gap the Burk piece doesn't have to be included in that you do the Vinewood piece from Vinewood to 140 Vinewood to once you get AC once you get across to North Diamond Lake Road yep there's a trail right from uh the River Hills neighborhood there's already a trail there but you no you have to get two River Hill you have to get two either ion Garden Cypress Cove or River Hills correct that's what this path is doing is creating the connection to get to there right now there's a giant Gap in that road there's no Trail to go on really talking about Diamond Lake Road that stretch Vinewood from Vinewood it's neighborhood up to birkshire is where it stops birkshire is where the ENT I correct or sorry it's not ion G it's Edge Water Edge Water Jes so just a small little sidewalks whatever problem sidewalk right here we're just talking about this little like from that to that intersection so yeah it's a couple blocks yeah it's not very far yeah it's not very far it's just but trails are crazy expensive as the mayor mentioned earlier and we don't have any land so well you only need if you're going to be on the I we can work this out later but if you only the north side it's just only problem with the north side is is that and I'm not saying the north side so I'm not I'm not trying to advocate for them I'm just laying out the differences the north side then you're crossing the North Diamond Lake Road right at Vine isn't bad but it's on a curve by bad intersection if you put the crossing down by birkshire it's at a it's at a perpendicular perpendicular it's got better sight lines can slow down and then you've got a better Crossing for just think that when we see the price difference and I don't know what maybe there's an elevation argument here too I don't know I'm I'm guessing that going to be the spot I'm guessing getting right away on the south side is kind of my guess is the north side will be cheaper the South Side will be safer and what the two price difference is I think where it ends up that's my guess I was the main question that staff needs to know is do we want to move forward with the trail CU it should say in 25 if not then we should move it off to 26 or later it seems like we could at least do some exploratory surgery move ahead I think we should move okay I it least be nice to know what because it could be again like on Pine View we we were we discovered um the grade was just too nasty on one side it would just jack up the price big time so and the power Jason can you note that for yeah thank you just for we'll talk about that tomorrow I guess just a note on that segment that the cost estimate of 900,000 is what we had put together um it was an assum assumed it would be on the North side and there could be a crossing accommodated at the Vinewood connection I don't know if it will be um and was that just because that's where the right away was yeah so yeah that's the easier way it might be nice to know what a South Side path would ballpark on I think the farther you get from the intersection the better for or The Pedestrian Crossing certainly because you don't want you don't want the intersection and then also part of the reason it might seem high is that includes an off Street Trail all the way down to 140th correct down Vinewood yeah down Vinewood and we might not need that portion because it could turn into an on Street tra Vine could be on stre that is so that road is so skinny and that turn is so skinny there I don't think you're going to have enough space for a path anyways without and the elevation on the one side I think is pretty steep I think you're gonna have trouble getting a path down there that blind corner at the end there is horrible that's horrible then that's just a tricky point there yeah if you do on but we can look at it we'll we'll put together some stuff and bring it back to council so we can keep moving forward with it that was the main question we need well yeah seem 25 that'd be correct might want to start we should be starting now cuz we're going need to get done next summer six months ago probably all right fund 410 not a lot of changes here I know one thing that was brought up um by C member was the fight training facility we should talk about that since it's in 25 or at least planned for it it's not on here push it out to 35 and then the bathroom remodel and the locker room remodel foration two are the main couple things um yeah training the only thing I noticed was I mean we know that the estimate is about 1.5 right and we only have 750 here was that yeah the reason why is because we're not going to pay 1.5 million we'll get it with grant money it just based on the models that we did with the cash flows there's no way it would make sense to do it without grant money yeah but I mean we don't do that with other things right yeah I should I need to I need to adjust it 1.5 and then change it to Grant SL City so show the actual cost of the facility so I need to adjust that but 750 is going to be our cost of what we that's what the plan is at least doesn't mean that it's going to happen but that's the plan we're still getting a little more information on too right this is a whole another discussion I think I don't think we have any clear path as far as what communities are jumping into this thing or yeah we don't we again we year marked this money last year think this when we added it yeah I think it was last year okay so and then again we just earmarked it for something to be able to look look at but doesn't mean it's it is not proved in stone and no we don't have a spot for yet either so we we can put it on here all day long it just we don't spot for we can't build it I don't if you want to push it out for 26 just in case well it my only concern is that if we're looking at you know budget meeting is coming up mhm and this is 2025 money yep that is correct it seems like we should either we need to bump it out or bump it out or again we can plan for it leave it there as a Reserve balance so that we have it and again doesn't mean it's I guess we can talk about it as we Your Mark as we go through the budget uh that was the only thing oh uh yeah okay I guess we've already covered it the signs you said were they're in there again we haven't spent the money on them but it just that's where the signs are at us in signages for the city through ways and parks and City signage I have a question on that we're budgeting 8 for a new city hall right basically correct but we're going to put a $50,000 sign in front of city hall for 3 years before that that we probably can move that 50,000 out to 28 yeah that doesn't seem good catch well we've there's a lot of sign M there that these signs we've had these in previous budgets mm yep so how many signs do we have at there's about $800,000 worth the signs here well that that's his every it's for w fairing signs it's for City buildings it's for the entranceways into day and as well like by the bridge in the old village where we still got the wooden sign up there so here yeah so it's replacing all of those signes but we've had them in since for the past at least three years I know and I'm a little gun shy after the last I'm going back there to be Qui Hest Al so do we have three 400 Grand worth of signs year or what I think we've only budgeted for $50,000 on a couple of them otherwise it's been 40 grand for the last couple years it's been it's been small amount what was the quot on the last one for this activity center that we got oh God Is 40 40,000 okay it's under the 50 that we're budg under the 50 that we're budg so it's so yeah now it's probably 55z that's assuming you do that at that spot and we do yeah my point was whether we put it here we put one at the entrance or whatever we got to make sure we're budg the yeah so as you can see in 23 which I didn't get rid of those two linm um we budgeted 20 grand for the activity center sign and 40 grand for those Stevens and we ended up getting just looking at one which was Activity Center end up being 40 some thousand and then we ended up not doing it so we have about 60 Grand right now sitting in signed money and we got the one for Stevens and the one for Stevens this year which we we're going to move move to next year next year when we actually spend the money so and we do have a full signage uh documentation that shows all the signs that we need and lo where they should be going in and W fairing signs that we need to put in as we develop these Trail systems to you know get to Three Rivers Park District this way or whatever you know those kind of things so we do cover a whole range of signage so every eventuality should be covered in there it's just it's just a timing of what we want to implement and when correct which sign first which sign first which sign first and that's why we got The Interchange one in because that's kind of a major way and do we want these $40,000 signs that's the other question that the cult make a decision on if you don't want to have those signs in then we need to remove them out of here again these are just your marks they're not clearly they're not very important because they haven't happen we also haven't any direction either I tried to make them happen let's put it that way do remember hasn't been brought up for a year that's F cuz we got beat up so bad the last one I think the response will be if I did then we shouldn't be avoiding the conversation we should be having a conversation about signs as a whole saying is something we want to do or don't we want to do versus just avoiding it if we don't like I don't I don't blame you for being gunshot my point is is like we just have to approach it that's we do get many calls here to City Hall asking when we're going to update the welcome you know what every time I drive there I think the same thing but they're doing this and this I just can't see spending 40 Grand on something that is that's my and so we don't do anything yeah yeah I know and it would be nice to have like a $110,000 solution or something yeah I mean but we don't could be a number to work with and then we can do it that way we can do it for I mean I'd like to have a set plan of what we're going to do what type of s can you bring us three options and say if we spend $15,000 this is what you get you spend $2 this is what you get $4 this what you get we can kind of we passed a sign thing years ago before I was here about having consistent marketing which is why what sign was for what no This was um during our branding it yeah it was just after we got The Branding approve so that's what we're using huh you can call toothpast toothpast so yeah as we were going through that we went through the sign thing which set us out for what kind of signs we're supposed to have which is what Marty followed and now it sounds like we want to adjust that and that's why it's hard to the problem I had with that whole sign deal was there was no Alternatives there was no you know Ford it was all Mercedes and I mean that was my hangout sure and that's my me so there's no alternative to prepare for it's either yeah you get the Cadillac or you get nothing that's that's I think you should call Colgate they probably give you some uh substit well grant money for using their toothpaste that's not even on our list we get that figured out okay well we'll come back with something in the future uh all right where are we at now I just have a quick question on the $2 and half million do uh I won't be here for the for the thrill of that but the what thrill yeah thrill y sorry that was going to be a two originally that was a $2 million building turned out to be four and now we're going to put two and a half more in it at least it's gross yeah start get we're we're out of space we're getting to the stage where we're having to park stuff outside again so well well quit buying quit growing quit growing does say there caveat that is I can handle that speak people would like that too on that fund that we go we go red in 25 as it's currently planned yep that's correct and so how are we dealing with that how are we dealing with it so we go right we we we go right in 2028 right and fun 410 fund 410 goes red in 28 cash balance on December 31st in 2025 is 1.1 million was in 2028 say 47821 uh you on the right page is that the net change in cash page 24 page 24 that's the that's the negative change in the balance two more Lin two more Lin down okay no I know what's happening in 20 so 2025 the reason why it's is because that's where the we were paying for the training facility so we don't budget enough we're only budgeting 370 in taxes and we spent 750 so it's going to be negative for changing cash but that doesn't mean the cash is gone out of that fund it's still there we just go negative and 28 um and the reason being is because we put $2.5 million of actual cash into that bond for the facilities and such um and so we are doing that uh $100,000 roof still right $100,000 Public Works yes outdoor y outdoor storage so will keep the Sun from being down correu yeah which is basically it's like a lean t or it's not like going to be closed or anything that I'm it be closed on three so if you get the sun off of things corre makes hug yeah that's huge that's correct so that that's we have budget for 100 grand that's on hydraulic hes and stuff like shelter Ro three sides and basically like a lean to like a big Sal shed yep it's a garage is our door yep yep exactly okay we have about 10 minutes I'm not sure if you guys want to discuss 414 we did we've done really well so I'll tell you really question I had on 414 is I didn't see MSA missed it I did y so that's a totally separate so but um we can do one of two ways so we haven't gotten MSA money back yet no but as of next year as of next year we will right um and so we have separate fund set up so I was doing some research on this because I knew that we're going to finally get the money start to get some actual cash in okay MSA dollars are right now paying us paying back for the Pine View project that we borrowed 5 Years allocations From we have a separate MSA fund that's set up currently in the system or in our current software that would be for MSA dollars for pavement only and the reason being is we only can spend MSA dollars on MSA streets and so I'm not sure if you guys want to this the question you guys do you guys want to keep a separate fund of M no than the park dedication versus putting it into pavment management that's my question yeah you know what it seems cleaner to separate it cuz you're going to have expenditures out of just that one yeah so you can move money from pavement over to MSA to cover an MSA Road let say we want to pay you can't do Vice vers correct you got it then yes we should keep them separate so we know that so you have not seen that because right now it's sitting at zero because we don't have any but we do have a fund set up I think it's 4 50 something whatever but effectively that adds 450 to our correct to our total pavement dollars is450 next next year I think that's right Jason right I don't think we get the full thing but I think we're it'll be we'll get most next year is when we're done with that yeah we I think we have to pay like 25 or something 30 grand left of the remaining dollars and then the rest goes into actually we get what are contributions and donations that was another one um which fun sorry second page of it 414 page 26 okay so the contributions and donations are the percentages of whoever is going to pay pay for it on the paid by sign or the so page 25 you'll have a paid by column that'll say either developer County uh whoever so the percentage that's on that is what's used for the percentage of contribution and donations so essentially I'll use one okay of in intersection approvement at Rush Creek Parkway that's supposed to be in 2025 we're going to 50/50 County split 1.5 million so 750 should be in 25 for contributions and donations cuz we're going to get 750 from the county essentially to be able to do it so trying to show us how much cash is going to leave us yeah we're going to pay 750 County's going to pay 750 I have to show the whole project different than the comment before did we update these numbers these intersections after we did the study and got better costs we probably should do that no we will do that and then add 10% by the time we get to them inflation you're going more so take what they 10% I would do we have Buy in from the county for all these 50/50s or um no we do not right so okay these are just planning numbers I don't know right we should probably get more confirmation on the 2025 stuff at least yeah um and then the one that I didn't know of and didn't want to change until I talked to the council is the 113th Avenue yeah I was going to ask about that's 25 St in 25 yeah it's stay in 25 cuz I didn't know any direction we had this convers we didn't have any conversations with them oh yeah we had one conversation with them none of them none of them showed for the open house thing right we had two correct Jason two or three Parkway Parkway are the businesses where we had the businesses show up I was at that meeting and there were there were like there were like four or five businesses that showed up from three showed up well there were like six people yes but I think four of them were all together maybe I'm wrong that's right yeah it just seems like for planning on 3.8 million that we have nothing yet yeah just seems like we don't yeah so the cult said no to doing anything so that's why I'm not sure what year to push that to that's why I left it as the year it sets today well when when does it need to be done I mean we don't even have a real need to be done date yet this whole thing this whole thing is for for everything north of of this of 113 well I mean the 113th would have been with the utility extensions the road had to be reconstructed if we're just looking at the connection that's just a portion of this yeah if we're just looking at getting a road connection for a an option for them to connect in 113th Road Pro they don't they don't need to be done do they I mean the road is not in good shape at all no I know it's it's we have worse roads but very few but yes isn't like the highest traffic to Road or something like that City the highest it's over a thousand cars a day on a dead end yeah that little it's on our MSA system for that reason yeah so like I said I'm happy to move the data out and that's why there's two different projects is one is for the connection point or the additional connection and the one is for the redoing of the road just think at this point pushing into 2028 just to add a little flare to a little more flare we can move to whatever Year you guys want to I I just I left it as the same year so we had good conversation I just think at a minimum I should go out a year because we haven't even we're we're talking about no conversations no looking at the budget and we have really nothing nothing so I'll move it to 26 unless somebody has a major concern with that no I'm good with that no okay I'll move it to 26 that way it's like not immediate but I think it should stay yeah needs to be addressed some sort of whether you do one thing it doesn't matter what it is that also relieves the payment fund to some extent until we start getting the MSA money correct but I mean either way we'll have to figure out what's going on out there correct um if I can interrupt just I just looked up the total so it's just under 13,000 that you're in debt for the advaned onine vi so last year's allotment was $414,000 to that account to the to the construction so you'll get about 400,000 next February good J yes msa's gone up substantially with our number of traffic or traffic counts have gone up what is crosswalk improvements to make this out here no um if you recall we had srf do a study for us um about ADA compliance because there's an ordinance um uh a government thing that we to comply to um we have to upgrade our Ava Crossings to meet those standards so replacing all the old Crossings in the old village and any that aren't up to standards all crosswalks all crosswalks so all the new stuff that's in is up to up to code but the county took care of their portion this year cor yeah that's exactly that same project Government funding for it or not no no they just tell you you're out of compliance that's correct and they just said that any other comments in we about one minute so another comments if you have any more please send me an email I will send this updated when had the county has the county committed to anything there nothing that's I'm going to move that to 27 okay well then jeez shouldn't be a whole lot our no I know I'm just saying our payment fund should be flush by then so hopeful we Diamond next year yeah yep so I got to that I did not add that c okay do you want to end the meeting Mr oh yeah all right if there are no objections we'll be adjourned thanks sir