City of Dayton Parks Commission May 6th meeting to order. Let's stand for the pledge of allegiance. Algian to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Uh call for any changes, additions, deletions to the agenda. Hearing none. Motion to approve the proposed agenda. All motion. A second. Carry a motion. Kai second the motion. All in favor say I. I. I. All oppose. Same sign. All right. On to the consent agenda. Entertain a motion to approve the meeting notes from our April meeting. A motion. I'll second. Uh first by Kai, second by Carrie. All in favor say I. I. All oppose. Same sign. All right. Uh, open forum up to three minutes. Does anybody here to speak? Nope. All right. Then we'll go on to the council update. As you are probably all aware, we approved uh some of the park uh um plans for 21 Ion and uh all of Stevens was scrapped. Um the uh trees are coming from a local grower. Uh Marty's got the numbers. Uh most of uh Stevens was parked uh was scrapped because some on the council felt that the uh plan didn't really really align with what council was looking for. Um others wanted to wait until after the uh MSA uh planning diagram. So, okay, that's pretty much anything related to park. Okay. All right, then we'll move on to the joint work session. Um I guess grab a chair. Anything else, Marty? No. Uh just a little uh this uh uh has come from the last uh council meeting where um the council wanted to have a joint work session to align the vision of the council, the park commission and the three rivers park district um uh along this trail route. So uh that's the whole point of the meeting tonight to get this vision sorted out so everybody's on the same page. So Kelly, yeah, that would be great. So, I have like a 15 minute presentation of a little bit of additional background. I don't know if it's helpful to have the park commission up here and the city council at the table or everyone at the table. I have handouts for everyone. So, even if you can't see the screen, you can still follow along. Do you have a a preference on how you would like to do the presentation? Either way, let's go down to table. That's going to be the way to do this. Yes. [Music] Thank you so much. Yep. I didn't want to hurt my back. No, you just you didn't shower today except me. I can tell. Listen, get a [Music] couple more say. Did you get a lot of grace or something? No. How does AC on yet? Okay. No, I don't even have [Music] Great. Was everybody able to get a hard copy? So, you'll have the presentation that way if you don't see it on the the screens. You can you can follow along or or take notes. Uh I personally always find it helpful that if you have a question, you're welcome to interrupt me. I'd much rather answer the question than have you maybe distracted or wondering or you forget your questions. So, this is we're really here to answer your questions and to to be a resource. So, feel free to interrupt, ask us questions. I'm Kelly Grisman with Three Rivers Park District. I also have with me Ann Rexine, Stephan Shen, and Jonathan Laming. Uh, I believe that we at least have at least one uh property owner that is interested in selling to the Three Rivers Park District. I'm just pointing that out uh so that everyone in the room knows who's here and some other residents that live along the the river corridor that have been monitoring the project very closely and a handful of city staff that have been working with Three Rivers Park District. Um, so with that, we have kind of three different kind of chunks of the meeting tonight and we can certainly pivot and use them or do whatever works best for you guys. But what we're thinking is we'll do this presentation, get, make sure we're all on the same page with the background and then we've got a map exercise and then we can regroup and have more of a discussion or it might just naturally as we're doing the map exercise, the discussion might naturally occur. So with that, uh, here we are. So, this is a slide that both the parks commission and the city council have already pretty much seen the material on it. I just switched out the map. It goes through a whole extensive list of plans that talk about the West Mississippi River Regional Trail or some spin-off of it because the West Mississippi River Regional Trail is the same trail alignment of the National Mississippi River Trail Corridor, the US Bikeway 45 Trail Corridor and all different kinds of regional planning. The Mississippi Flyway uh is part of this corridor as well. um within the city of Dayton or the city council has adopted the 2040 comprehensive plan, the West Mississippi River regional trail long range plan as well as a cooperative agreement regarding the the regional trail. So those are the three action items that the council has previously approved. Um all again recognizing the regional trail corridor. And then it's my understanding that earlier this year the city council went through a really thoughtful strategic planning exercise and there was I believe four strategic initiatives that came out of that. I'm only highlighting one of them on this slide and it's the one that most aligns with the west Mississippi River regional trail and the planning work that Three Rivers has been doing along the corridor. And that strategic initiative is to maintain and enhance the natural and rural community connection. and I went through and everything that seemed like it was a very clear connection to the regional trail planning work either currently or it could be as we work in partnership with the city to think about what this trail corridor could be or where there's opportunities for partnership I've simply highlighted. So for example, there's a continuation and expansion of recreation programming. We currently don't offer any programming in this area at all, but that might be an area where we would work together with the city of Dayton and say, "Hey, if we've got this great regional trail corridor and we're starting to buy parkland or maybe we're developing some parkland, maybe we can look at how we might do some recreation programming either by ourselves or in partnership with you to make sure that we're doing we're meeting what those regional needs are as well as working with you to meet what your local needs are and that we're complimentary, not duplicative. So, I I don't need to speak to you guys about what your strategic plans are, especially since you've just recently went through this exercise. I just wanted to include it to kind of recognize that I think there's a lot of overlap that we can work together on and and hopefully we can partner to achieve some of the city's goals. This is a graphic again. Both the parks commission and the city council have previously seen it. It is the regional trail route through the city. What I'm going to really focus in and what seems to be the the crux of the conversation is the red dash line in what's what we'll often refer to as the focus area between Gooden Park and North Diamond Lake Road. And this is what the long range plan had called out at and said as opportunities present themselves. Property acquisition on a willing seller basis should be considered where construction complications could be alleviated or lessened andor to create a wider more scenic regional trail corridor. So that's the area that Three Rivers has started doing some acquisition efforts. And it certainly happened a lot quicker than anyone anticipated including Three Rivers. And that's where we would hope to have some conversation today in in partnership with you to to kind of better understand where those opportunities are, where they might be going and and whether that is still in alignment or still acceptable to the city. I also included, so I guess from here on out, many of the slides start with a question and as as staff have been attending Dayton meetings and talking to your residents, there seems to be some common questions that keep coming up and I don't know if we've done the best job answering them. So, I'm hope I'm hoping to just take a few minutes today and address them maybe a little bit more appropriately. And this particular question has come up in more than one occasion. And I I hope that I I hit the nail on the head on this one, but why is more parkland needed? Why now? What makes a community a desirable place to live, work, and play? What makes Dayton a desirable work place to live, work, and play? And right on your website, I don't know if you guys refer to these as like your slogan or your taglines. And I know that um maybe there's been some disagreement whether everybody buys into these three things, but they're the best that I have to work with as someone that doesn't work for the city and I'm trying to best understand who you are and what your goals are. And it's we're right here, a city of beautiful natural resources with convenient proximity to the best of the Twin Cities amenities. And you guys have the Mississippi River right here. And one of our goals is to make sure that that river is protected and that you have your community members have access to it and that they can enjoy it and appreciate it. We've got roots. To me, when I read this, it is about protecting your rural landscape, protecting your history, and I think there's a way to do that with the preservation of the the river corridor, at least pieces of that river corridor, so that not all of Dayton becomes developed into houses, and that there's a way to kind of tie back and honor that that heritage. And the third is we play outside, a place rich in opportunity to experience the many parks, trails, and rivers that immerse you in nature. And I think that's very that's very clear connection to what we're what we're trying to accomplish. But I also think that there's three more things and it's meet expectations. Dayton is one of the fastest growing communities in the region. Your residents are going to want and will expect safe and convenient access to parks, trails, and open space. And additionally, these amenities will help Dayton compete with neighboring communities. So this trail corridor, however it ends up taking shape, is one of the things that your community members are going to want. They're going to expect and it's going to make you different than Corkran, make you different than Rogers because you will have something unique and different than anybody else in how you connect and honor the Mississippi River. It's also about preserving opportunities. Once property is developed, it's developed forever. It's incredibly difficult and expensive to do anything else with it. When Three Rivers looks at our history, we came about in a time in 1957 and beyond and we started buying parkland where there was large areas to do so and where it was affordable to do so. What that meant is we were not able to buy and develop parks and trails in the first tier communities. So for the last 15 to 20 years or the last 15 to 20 years, that's what we've been doing. We've been going and retrofitting these communities that developed without parks and trails front of mind. And I will tell you it is incredibly expensive and impossible to do it after the fact. So while parts of Dayton are developed and there is houses or outbuildings or agriculture and there's some level of investment and and development already there, it is not the same level of complete subdivisions that are houses upon houses upon houses or what you would see maybe in Maple Grove or in New Hope and the first tier communities. So there is an opportunity to think about what your future holds and how development is happening in Dayton and and how you might want to preserve opportunities in the future. And the third point is balance. There's an opportunity to preserve Dayton's rural landscape while also advancing development and providing ample public access to the river while also allowing other areas to remain publicly held and meeting to the needs of today while also preserving the needs of tomorrow. So think there's three in addition to your slogans meeting expect three things meeting expectations of your residents both your current residents and the residents that are moving into Dayton there's preserving opportunities and then there's thinking about the balance of of all of the different things that as a growing community you guys are really in a difficult position. You have new residents, you have old residents, you have new ways of doing things, you have old ways of doing things, and there isn't going to be a perfect solution. We've also heard a lot of questions or or fielded a lot of conversations about road route versus a greenway route. So, what's wrong with a roadbased route? There's nothing wrong with a roadbased route. It will still provide a safe off- streetet multipleuse trail that connects existing parks along the river and there will still be opportunities to connect people directly to the river. However, it is a less desirable option for most community members and existing trail users. The pictures that I have on the screen are from the Lake Independence Regional Trail. uh the south um I guess south end of Crow Hassen and in just a little bit west of there along County Road 19. So this is very similar to what the trail would look like in a roadbased route along Dayton River Road. And I would very much encourage uh the park commission members as well as the city council members to go and either walk or drive next to it or bike that regional trail and kind of get that experience because that's very similar to what a roadbase route along Dayton River Road will or Dayton uh yeah Dayton River Road, excuse me, will feel like if that's the option that we move forward with. So what's then the flip side or what's the benefit of a greenway corridor option? The greenway corridor option simply provides a higher degree of amenity. It has a higher level of safety or perceived safety. It's more desirable. It will have a greater number of people using it and a greater number of people using it of all ages and abilities and your user satisfaction will be higher. And we have research from our own regional trail surveys that support that. But then there's also state research, there's regional research, and there's national research that will time and time again support all of that information as well. In fact, this is just one little data point from our own research. And this is comparing the Lake Independence Regional Trail that I just spoke about. That's a roadbased route. It's still separate from the road, but it's parallel a county road comparing to the Medicine Lake and the Rush Creek Regional Trail Corridors, which are independent regional trail corridor. So, it functions very much like a greenway or a linear park. And what this slide shows you is that a roadbased route provides you with an average user experience where these independent trail corridors, these linear parks or greenway corridors provide you with that above average or that excellent user experience. And in fact, we have in 2019 when this survey work was done, we had 16 regional trails surveyed and Lake Independence had the lowest user satisfaction ratings. primarily because of its proximity to the road. And quite frankly, I think everyone in this room has a really broad understanding of that road and can understand that that's maybe not the most desirable road to walk, bike, rollerblade, walk with a stroller, wheelchair, whatever the case may be, right next to. Um, that doesn't mean it can't be done. That doesn't mean it's not safe. It simply means it's a less desirable option. It is still an option and it still gets you from point A to point B. So what uh we've presented to both the city council as well as the park commission in the past. So this is not new information is that the area of interest that we're looking at. So pretty much from the center line or the county line to the road and then from Buen Island to North Diamond Lake Road is about 330 acres and it's about 3 and a half miles long. 250 acres give or take is already in public ownership and about 165 acres of those are islands. So those 165 acres are not really publicly accessible to most people. And then this slide shows you the public ownership, which I'm not going to go through each kind of breakdown other than that. Three Rivers Park District currently owns 13 parcels totaling 37 acres and there remains about 30 private parcels totaling 78 acres. Oops. We've gotten a lot of questions and the council I know has talked a lot about the local tax revenue if Three Rivers were to acquire all of that. We went through and looked at the 30 remaining privately held parcels and the estimated local tax revenue is just under 40,000 a year. If you go on Henipin County tax or property records and look and add up all the tax stuff, you have to dig a little bit deeper and look specifically at what Dayton is collecting from the tax revenue, not just the very like parcel X collects $3,000. For most of these parcels, it's probably closer to $1,000, $1,300 per parcel. So for comparison purposes only, if you looked at the River Hills development and the Riverwalk development and you took about 80 acres of those and you looked at what the local tax revenue was per parcel and you did the math, the same number of acreage is about 500,000 in local tax revenue. If you looked at agricultural land in the same general area, it's about 2,000 per per year of local tax revenue. So again, not trying to sway the council one way or the other, just giving some comparisons and answering the question as to what is that annual local tax local tax loss. On the flip side, how will the trail affect property values? Research has shown time and time again that there's a positive correlation between trails and property value. In general, studies have found that trails along roadways increase property values by 3%. Where trails within conservation corridors increase property values by 6%. So that would be the bare minimum, I should say, the a roadbased route for this project, bare minimum would be 3%. If we do an independent trail corridor, we're at 6%. The city of Dayton doesn't just have option one or option two. It is part of a national trailway and water corridor, which means actually your property value increase is probably over 6%. So, while you are losing $40,000 if we were to acquire all of those properties, and I'm not saying we are acquiring all of those properties, the other properties in near proximities are increasing in value at a rate of somewhere between 3 and 6%. Or more than 6%. So, are you going to buy the entire river shoreline in the city of Dayton? No. The focus area is three and a half miles includes about 30 privately held parcels. For reference, within suburban Henipin County, the regional trail is about 20 miles long. Six miles are within Dayton. About three and a half of those miles are within this focus area. And then 2 and a half miles are definitely roadbased route. And there's about 45 other parcels within Dayton that are along the river that are uh completely outside of the project area and will remain privately held. Will private property owners have to sell to Three Rivers or be forced to sell before they are ready? No. We are a willing seller basis only and we really recommend that that's how we would continue to move forward in any way, shape or form. Uh this map just to kind of walk the council and the parks commission through what this map shows is the city council approved the route and the long range plan in 2016 and then three rivers approved that same information or those same elements in 2018. So the light yellow are the the parcels that were sold between when the city adopted the plans and when Three Rivers adopted the plans. So those were all what you might label as lost opportunities depending on how you're viewing it. And then the orange or salmon color were pro were properties that were sold after Three Rivers adopted the plans and that Three Rivers did not acquire. So those are other properties just uh for plain language that Three Rivers did not acquire but could have acquired. And then the dark blue are properties that Three Rivers acquired after the plans were adopted by the park district. So this again just shows that there are opportunities for people to buy and sell to whoever they would like to sell to. Excuse me. People can sell to whoever they would like to sell to. So before we go to the map exercise, I just want to pause and see if there's any initial remaining questions or comments. kind of on the background information. Well, I think we we don't seem to be able to get on the same page around this piece of it. What was approved by the city was a trail. You're now referring to it as a greenway corridor. That's a new term even tonight, and I don't see that on any map anywhere. So, what we're talking about as approved is a trail along the river road. It was on one side of the road. It moved to the other side of the road and now it's it is on that side of the road. It has been for some time. No trail has been built except for what the city has built. But you continue to acquire properties and continue on on with the notion that this is up to you and the city really just needs to play ball. You just need to explain it to us four or five more times and we'll get it and then we'll move along. We're not there. Thank you. We're simply not there. I think that brings up a great opportunity for us to show the maps and we'll show the the roadbased route as well as more of the greenway option. And I'd be happy to go back through the presentation if it's helpful, but I I think uh as you noted, we've already gone through it four or five times. So, we're we're going to probably just agree to disagree that how we we won't disagree on this. The city has the right to refuse to sell allow the sales to the park district. That's true. That is state law. Yes. So unless we can come to some kind of reasonable arrangement where we can support it, which we do not at this point. The council does not and you've heard that several times. It's not just me talking that we're not going to get anywhere. Okay? So there needs to be some collaboration here and it's not happened so far. Okay. Are we okay if we move to the exercise or do people want to continue this conversation? I'd also like to comment on the revenue part. Um I don't know that revenue has ever been our hangup. Um in fact you you in a way you said if we had if we would just leave this alone and eventually develop it we would make a lot more money in revenue. Um, revenue isn't the big the the the lynch pin here. Um, and as Dave stated, I I think I mean I I didn't notice that you were you you had mentioned some sort of hybrid in here. I think that's where we're going to end up. But um how we get there is there are some areas where I agree you can't you can't even get a road a trail by the road. Um but there are other areas where you easily could and as Dave stated that has always been the assumption was a trail not a full ownership of all the property. Yeah. I just like to add a few. So when I'm looking at the data, first off, the fact that the the one trail that you mentioned, which is the roadbased route from Independence, right? It's still good. Like it's not below average or bad. Like so, and also when you looked at the public comments, engaging with the Mississippi River was actually the least important thing of all of the things. So like yes, people want to engage with the river, but that's not their priority by any stretch of the imagination. It's in fact the last priority um when they were given that list. Um and you also in several emails to property owners explicitly said um and this was your response to a property owner who emailed you very early on in the process with concerns that the trail is going through their property. Um that we propose the trail adjacent to the road right away. Um it will like we understand that the majority of the trails length from Dayton through Champlain um and Brooklyn Park have private properties that have property lines running straight to the river. Meaning to lessen private property impacts we propose the ta the trail adjacent to the road right away. So you've been telling people don't worry about it. It's just going to be a trail next to the road and then buying properties buying properties. So, it feels like there have been mixed messages kind of like the whole time there have been mixed messages. Um, but I'm kind of with when I went through to look what Dayton agreed to, we agreed to a trail. We didn't agree to a giant another giant park. We agreed to a trail. And when people talk about what they want, they want trails. That was the thing that came up again and again. We want more trails. We want more trails. We want more trails. Not we need more parks. That was never any of the feedback in any of this was we want more parks. All of the feedback was we want more trails and that's what we said yes to. So I'm kind of I think we're going to wind up in a compromised situation here. Um another thing is you mentioned multiple times in this packet wanting to kind of piggyback on work being done by other organizations and they're about to up redo this road. So at a certain point it feels like we need to move forward with properties you have so far because this is your opportunity to do this. They're redoing the road. Um, so when is the moment where we say, "Okay, these are the properties we have. We're designing the trail of what we have and we're moving forward." Yep. And I think that's now. I think some of the maps are going to show that. Okay. Good. Ready. Hello, council and uh park. My name is Stephan Sherson. Um I'm the roll out. I ask you to pull me 10 minutes very long. I may ask or I'm sorry, council member. [Music] These can overlap for now. Thank you for that. So, obviously it's mapped the whole corridor uh from uh approximately uh uh Brockton all the way to north uh North Diamond Lake Road. And this is a we have two maps here. One is showing uh what the trail could be on a roadbased uh type of route and the other one is is what we're calling tonight the the uh the greenway route. Um so let's first look at this map here. Um on here we've got um Yeah, please feel free to get up and Yeah, you may need to stand to see this more clearly. Um, just to explain kind of what you're looking at here. The darker green uh areas are like they're in the center are the parcels that Three Rivers currently owns. The lighter green areas um uh like here at uh uh uh LC Stevens and Cloquet uh overlook just slightly lighter green. That's the city owned properties and also the DNR property is also that same light green color. The maps also show the topography twoft contours. It shows the uh FEMA floodway which is this lighter blue line along the river. So you can see you know where we really can't build. Um and it also I've um included all the parcels around here. Um so as a base map that's what we're looking at. Um the purple line represents what the trail could be uh with today with with what Three Rivers currently owns. Okay. So, uh you can see where the topography is steep along the road and in the properties where um uh it's difficult to uh to build areas where there is either city land or or three rivers uh property. Uh the trail does meander off into that property uh and get closer to the to the river. Um the the trails designed kind of at a still a pretty high level. You see a line, but don't think of the line as being like the alignment, right? This is still a very conceptual line. Um you know, maybe it's not 30,000 ft high, but maybe 10,000 ft high. you know, it's it's considering the existing topography um and uh kind of the path of least resistance for the trail without doing any major major grading to uh to accomplish the trail. um you know uh so you know the actual uh design engineering of the of the trail you know would have h happen obviously sometime in the in the future and could look very different but kind of look at this trail as being kind of um as uh like I said a path of least resistance and where the trail could be could be anywhere between that line and and the road. Uh also on the map you'll see if you look carefully enough you'll see some pink areas. Those are areas where we anticipate easements being necessary along the road. There's some some parcels that are closer to the to the road than others. Um there's other areas where the topography is such where we anticipate needing some sort of uh easement either for a retaining wall or perhaps a slope easement uh to to uh be able to get the trail along the road. So you'll see some areas and and there should be some text next to them approximate area of of the size of an easement. Also you'll see some brown lines in there on occasion where uh uh retaining walls uh are likely to be to be needed. So that map shows you you know today what Three Rivers owns and what the trail could look like um with existing conditions. The other map and the Kelly has some um some options to show. Uh the other map uh which is all green is sort of the other extreme is in the hypothetical situation where Three Rivers uh owns all all the parcels along the river. Um and what the sort of ultimate could be if that hypothetical were were to were to happen. I know we're not talking about that, but I just kind of wanted to show you kind of the two ends of the spectrum, right? Yeah. So, so one of the things the city council in particular has asked time and time again is where exactly is the trail going to be? And we've really struggled to answer that question because we're moving forward on a willing seller basis. So, the trail, we can't tell you where the trail is going to be until it's time to build the trail and we know then at that point what land we have to work with. Um so through this exercise you can imagine that this roadbased route is hey if we were going to build it tomorrow this is what we could deliver if we're thinking 50 plus years and something that we're aspiring to but maybe we'll never fully 100% achieve. This is what it might look like or parts of it might look like. There was a question about, hey, we need to get our ducks into order. I'm using my own words because the county has a project coming up in 2029. So, the 2029 project, that's we don't know what the county road project is going to entail or what they're envisioning, but that's our best guess of then where that trail could go and where it would be along the road versus where it would get pulled off. Now, between now and 2029, if additional land comes for sale and the council supportive of Three Rivers acquiring it, that could change where that line is, right? Um, the other thing that I want to highlight is on this map, we looked at your staging plan and we just penciled in the development pattern through 2040 roughly to show how things are going to change. at some point all the way from where Stephen is now to roughly right here. There's not really a road right now that I can reference, but between Lawndale and Vixsburg, it's all going to be houses if that staging plan comes to fruition. And so kind of thinking and anticipating what are those community needs going to be, what we what we haven't identified and as we move forward would we'd like to know where you guys would want to tie in to the trail where so when development's happening to be thinking about those neighborhoods are going to want access to the trail. How are they going to cross the county road safely to to connect? because they're going to want to connect whether it's a roadbased route or something different. Those connections are critical and crossing the county road is going to be challenging like we have here at River Hills. How would you assist us with that? Well, the that's a great that's a great question and it kind of depends on where everyone's at and where the trail is at, what our partnership looks like. The 10,000 foot levels nice, right? realistic is somewhere in between these two. So even if we're looking at the first one here, knowing the staging of the other housing developments coming through, you can see you know and you said we need crossings for the people to get there. What would you foresee? So the River Hills the city actually put that responsibility on the developer in anticipation of that actually happened before we had all of our trail work. We we actually didn't put that on them. They volunteered that. Oh, okay. Well, we didn't do it. The I think each one of these development crossings is or crossings near developments are going to be unique and we won't have them figured out until that development happens. And I don't see 2040 happening in here, but that's a different issue. The the 2040 the staging plan doesn't connect to Dayton River Road. It must be like a little bit south of here. It's a way south. Um, but that's a different issue. Um, I think county road crossings there's no way we're going to plan those today or No, but we could use their help in the future. I mean, here's probably one because that's the Lawndale Trail. That's Diamond Lake Diamond Lake. Diamond Lake Trail. Yeah, but the one coming up Longdale, this must be London already. This is Lond. You can see we're not even going to know where that guy's at until it actually is put in. Right. Um, so we've got some concepts or I don't concepts but diagrams that Ann's going to walk us through to just show maybe some more of like what a hybrid might look like or how how even and we're not we're not asking the council to adopt this, but how over time and we're and when I say over time like I'm I mean like over the course of some of our ENT entire careers for like 30, 40, 50 years. How things might naturally just evolve towards one direction just just by the the nature of how development happens and how people eventually sell or change ownership. If you build trail like these go and at some point trails have to be redeveloped because they're just like roads and they only last so long and so there's opportunity to tweak and that was what I was thinking too is if we were to build something I mean I don't know like what the earliest we could build based on curious so I mean like you said then yeah things change, you can just re-evaluate later when they change. Have you done any preliminary engineering on where a trail can't go by the road? Um because I think that's going to some of that. Well, yeah, there's areas where it's going to be steep. Um but that there are uh guidelines that say that you know if the trail is if the road is steeper than 5% which it might be in some cases here um as long as the trail follows the grade of the trail follows the grade of the road it can be steeper than 5%. 5% is is sort of the magical number that that we strive. I guess what I'm getting at is there are areas where the drop off from the road is significant require uh it is so and and some of those areas where there's ravines you might have to build a bridge or might have to build retaining walls. Yeah. I mean, I think we feel a little more comfortable knowing that those those lots or or property IDs, you're probably going to have to acquire them all. Yeah, those are what are we've got them labeled with like an easement or slope fill or retaining wall. They are marked on here. Okay. Yeah, there are some uh diamonds, orange diamonds on the on on the road route that does highlight a lot of those areas and and we can leave these maps at city hall so you guys can have them in reference and and do a deeper dive. Yeah, however you want to be on the other I'm going to ask Ann just to kind of walk through. So, we've got three different areas just to articulate how change might happen. Mhm. So, we took a look at the area from this um parcel to the one we just acquired, which was the Stanky property. Then, we uh looked at uh an area in the middle and then at the far end. So, I'm going to show you the pieces that we looked at at the far end. So, if you can't see it, come over when you can. But um this is to show you what we could do over time. And we have three different scenarios. And it's mainly to show you too the complexity of knowing what you can do now versus what you could do in the future should you be able to um bend the trail. So here's the DNR property. Um the trail is shown in the purple. We could run it through the road. uh adjacent to the road we own. Actually, you know what? Let's start with the roadbased like walk them through the roadbased route and then show them this one. Yeah. Oh, I'll hold that for you cuz then they can see. Okay. Yeah. So, right now the current roadbase route comes through the DNR property right here and it can go along the road right here. There's a slope easement fill needed right here. a easement for a wall and access to the north needed here. Um along Lndale, there's a significant wall that's needed all along here. This is Gooden Park. We have a current plan with the city that we're working on developing both our parcel in Gooden Park through the water trail plan. So, this alignment through here is very realistic. Um and we're working that uh on that with city staff. Here is a potential underpass of the Diamond Lake Regional Trail that will go somewhere in this area to connect the north side to the south side. And then moving along here, east of there, we could sneak it along the road. There would be an easement and a retaining wall here, a retaining wall. This is the piece that we just required. And then road base all the way to the east. So, if we were to acquire a few more pieces, right? So, and are those highlighted in the black? Yeah. So, that would be these two right here, this one right here, and this one right here. So, they're kind of outlined and thicker and they build on each other, right? So, again, we're coming along the roadbase route. We go up through our property. If we were to acquire this one, we could sneak through here. we could um access the river uh in a more corridor nature and then come down here. If we were to acquire here, we would have a little bit of flexibility on how we make that turn. Again, going through Gooden Park and through rivers and then we could um be able to negotiate how that um comes through these three properties together before it continues on a roadbased route. If we were able to So this one is again a progression. So again, if we were able to acquire these two pieces next to Sanki, um we could again um come along the roadbased road. I'm kind of going backwards now. Um through here, through Gooden Park. This all looks the same. This all looks the same. Um, and then we would, uh, if we were to acquire these two right here, we could again be closer to the river before coming back to a roadbased route. So, it just shows you there's lots of different ways to can you can you put that one back up real quick? So, a question I have is um, those two properties to the left there that you would like to acquire, it looks like that trail doesn't actually move farther off the road whether you own those properties or not. So, it's not that big a deal. Well, it requires an easement for a retaining wall and a fill area and a wall right here. So, it does give us a flexibility of putting that retaining wall and acquiring that easement in a way that we have more flexibility if we were to acquire the whole piece. It has to do with uh where the houses are. The houses are built right into the slope and it just drops. But I'm just saying if you own them, it looks like the trail doesn't actually move very much. That's true. I think part of it is if you look at on this plan, you can see if if addition, you know, another parcel or two additional beyond what the sketch shows, you could I think bring it uh off the road. Off the road, but you still didn't even when in your pie in the sky, we own everything. You still didn't. It's still right by the road, I think. Well, maybe I'm looking at the wrong spot, but I'm looking those two right there. Right there. And even when you own absolutely everything, that trail is still right by It has to do with the demography. Yeah. So I would think then if whether you own the that or not, it's still there. Then the hard So the hard part is um and I I'm not the expert. Stephan is by far the construction expert. If you can imagine, you've got your road up here and the houses are sitting down and everything slopes like this. And now we have to also bench in the trail. everything just gets steeper and harder in a smaller area. So, you might be able to fit that trail in, but you might still have impacts to that house. And without additional engineering, we can't we really can't tell you with 100% confidence like, yep, nope, everything is going to be right in the rightway and it's fine or there's no changes. those anytime you have that amount of topography and it's so close with the house, a little bit of flexibility can go a long way, but yeah, you can be right in the road right away and probably save those houses if you're not accomplishing all that much. Has there been any discussion with the county in regards to road alignment along that stretch? Yeah. No, we really are not with the county and they have they're their road reconstruction for this part is to be determined. They're really not have they don't have any plans for anything on this side of Dayton River Road. The study they're looking at now start at starts at Vixsburg and East. So that's outside of the scope of the current study. So, I'm just bringing it up because we're saying it's, you know, it's infeasible because we're we're working off of the existing the houses are and what the top topography is. Um, is is anybody exploring at all, move, you know, shifting the road 20 or 30 ft to the west? At at this point, we're working on the existing conditions and and those conditions might might change, especially as development happens. Um, remember that development in this area is 2050 plus. So, we're we're really not envisioning or anticipating significant changes to the road. Well, actually, that may permit changes to the road because it's all egg. It's all egg. Egg field is cheaper than houses. Yeah. I a bunch. It's I it seems the park has tons of money when it comes to acquiring property, but when it comes to other things, the park has zero money. So, you're asking us I'm I just kind I sort of missed one sentence. So, if you maybe could just reiterate what you're asking me or All I'm saying is is to Dave's point is if the problem is and right now you have grade problems along the north side of that road. Oh. in significant amounts of areas. Yeah, you don't on the south, which is also why some of the city leaders a few years ago were talking about putting on the south. Um, and most of this is egg land, so it's cheap to move the road. Got it. If the issue is grade, um, that's one route to fix it. Sure. And again, I understand that, you know, there's still going to be areas where you really don't for many reasons, you don't want the trail next to the road, but um and those properties you would end up having to to acquire. Yeah. But you're you're correct. There's a tool in the tool blocks that in some areas it might make sense to realign the road, give a little more flexibility. Yeah. And we have not looked at that. No matter where that happens, that that could be beneficial. I know the Lake Independence Trail when that that road was totally redesigned. They gutted reconstructed the whole rideway to rideway line was totally redesigned. So if that opportunity happens um then that certainly is the benefit of being able to avoid a lot of these problem areas. [Music] Line it up. This one's Yeah, thank you. That's a good point. So, our second area that we looked at um was just to the east. Um this is the property that we just acquired, the Stanky property. And then they uh we have two additional properties here. So, we're just showing if we were to uh construct soon, we could do a roadbase route here, uh dip into Three Rivers property, and if we were to uh acquire these two to have this confluence point right here, we could have synergy with four parcels to bring it off the road right here before it enters back on the road down here. Yeah. Or even if we never acquire those, this is still a very viable option. Yes. You line up right here. Yep. Yeah. So, again, just showing the evolution of options, right? Um, if we were to acquire parcels in the middle here, we could drag it off of the road. Um, we do have a potential willing seller right here adjacent to a property that we own right here. Um, we're showing maybe we don't acquire this one and we acquire this one, we could drag it off the road right here. So, one of the things that this map or diagram shows us is when you have just the standalone one, it makes it hard to really accomplish pulling it off. And so when we start to look at where we bundle or have like a bigger node, not only does it give us a better opportunity to pull the trail off, it also gives us maybe a little bit more land to think about, hey, what else could we use this land and maybe activate? Like are are there water trail things that we should be looking at? Are there picnic things we should be looking at? Is this a good shoreline fishing? And really like it doesn't just have to be a trail. What else does the community or the city of Dayton need or want that where we could kind of just build on this and and make it something great? Um, and and you can make it great without this, right? It's different nodes and different pockets. And this is again just another option. My immediate thought with being able to pull it off of the road every once in a while, too, is when you're biking, it's just really nice to not have three miles straight of sunshine and be able to like go into the trees every once in a while. So, when I think of that break, that's kind of what I'm thinking of. Busy traffic then, too. Yeah. Again, this one just shows sort of that evolution of um open space, right? So, if you if these were the ones that we currently um own right here, right here, and right here, you know, if we were to um acquire this piece, could we acquire the piece to the left and the two to the right to garner a larger stretch of that experience um off the road and um through uh vegetation or um by the road? Because that is the property you were asking me about a couple weeks ago. That was before the fire chief. That has some pretty expensive topography. But you can't put Okay. Yeah, that's it's just diagrammic. It's going to be right along the property edge. Oh, then what's the point of acquiring it? Yeah, cuz I would have thought you'd have to come into the property. It's It's just an opportunity you can do other things with the with um with the property. Okay. Again, this this seems to be more than just it's just just showing concept so that you can react. Is that this area here? Yeah. Right. The former it's to the left, I think. This one is that one more. One more. That one. Yes. Okay. Because again, even in your ideal perfect road, it's right up against road. Yeah. Yeah. I guess that's the area that's pro probably the steepest part of of the whole road right there. Awesome shoreline if you can get you can get down there from the neighbor's property. It does. And if you can get down there, awesome flat shoreline fishing, river access. So there's other opportunities, but yes, from a trail perspective, nothing changes. Nothing changes. Okay, these are all pretty. So Stephan, if I toss these to you, could you only two really? Um, there's only two parts. We'll start with the one on the bottom. Okay. Well, actually, I'd like to have since you drew these, maybe best to have you kind of go through them, but uh you can see the island. You guys know you're good. stuck. So, while they're lining that up, the re rehab for the county road is off the page. That's 2028. And then the reconstruction starts at the base the upright where Ann's finger is and goes to Vixsburg right here, which is also the bridge potential bridge location. That's 2029. And then reconstruction from Vixsburg as far west as we know is to be determined. So the piece from Vixsburg to again where Ann's map is is our priority spot of that that's where we're going to be gearing up to figure out how to get that in the ground and and we're working with the the county on that. So you're saying in the ground by 202 if it works. Yep. This property was the Refe property that Three Rivers acquired last year. Um we absolutely can bring it in through the Reich property and come up adjacent to the road before entering Clo um and LC Steven Seasons. However, should we be able to um look at acquiring the property adjacent to it, um we could pull it in through the RIFE property um and having more off-road experience before um bumping down to the road and then back up through Clover Overlook. Still no crossing. What's that? Still no crossing though for the current housing developments that are there. Yeah, we didn't we didn't look at that at all. Cross river. There's a crossing there already. Uh there's the underpass at you like 10 miles to get back over here. And then there will be the intersection control at North Diamond. Sure. It'd be great to have something in between. Don't dismiss that. But there might be some potential, and this is something we asked the county to look at as part of their study. Um I don't know if I'm pointing to the right spot through here. There's a deep ravine. Maybe a potential. Yep. Yeah, maybe a potential in there. There is enough rate differential that something might be able to be worked out for an underpass under potentially. Oh, you're under the water. It'd be tricky. Oh, okay. Wink wink. Yeah, it would it would be difficult, but it's something that we asked them to look at for high water. Just getting used to it sometimes. I used to get a drink in the winter. So this scenario shows these two properties flip-flopped. Um again just showing how things could progress on a willing seller basis. We could come through the Reich property adjacent to the road and then this property is directly adjacent to Cloet. So we would have an extenduation of this parklike experience through this piece right here. Topographies are quite easy through here. the ravine here. This this in this design uh we consider a bridge over that ravine. And this of course shows a very similar alignment to the one Stefan shows here if we were to um have both of these properties acquired. No problem. So that's um John could you or could you with the There's like a question slide. If you want to advance a little bit, thank you. A lot of time anyways. So, I think we've certainly given you guys a lot of background. We'd love to hear some more of your thoughts. I've been hearing a lot of your thoughts and super appreciative. Um, I'll I'll just take a moment to read all of the questions and then we can kind of go from there if it works. So, does the council and park commission support three rivers acquiring easements andor property along the road on a willing seller basis where necessary to construct the trail? So, that's where we've flagged where the slope easements or retaining walls are. Uh, does the council and park commission support Three Rivers pursuing acquisition from the two current willing sellers? Um, that is uh the property next to the Stein keys as well as potentially the Meyer property. Thank you. Yep. Right kind of right in the middle. Um, this one we definitely know we're going to need slope easements and then uh we know that there's going to be a retaining wall. So that would require some type of property impacts too. So both of those we we know that there would be some type of coordination with with uh with the property owner at which time the the trail is built. Does the council and park commission support willing sellers property private property owners selling to three rivers even if their land is not required for trail construction? So those are the three questions and then I guess our uh last question is what remaining questions or concerns does the council and park commission have or any other additional information that you'd like us to look at and come back to you? Well, that very first one, I think it's a little bit disingenuous to put easements and acquiring entire properties in a single statement because I have never had any issue with easements. Like, you can get easements all day long, right? Like if if you and the property owners can work out a deal and they're fine with it and you're fine with it, happy would never have anything to say about that. um coupling that right with the property like it's the acquisition of properties particularly when you start to isolate properties that are now surrounded on all sides right like that is I think where where I've heard from residents where they feel like they're getting basically for lack of a better phrase bullied into selling to you because you're the big guy with all the money and you apparently you know money money is no object when it comes to acquiring land apparently um and you're buying up everything around them and they're the last one standing and they're surrounded and they're feeling like they're they're being forced to make a decision whether they want to or not. And that's where that's where I'm not comfortable is with that. That has nothing to do with easements, right? Those are two completely separate lines. So for me personally, easements all day long have fun. Um it's that property acquisition when people feel like they are not when they're being forced and not actually given a fair option. So my one thing is though for the one who wants to sell to the park like we have to hear them too because some people want their land to be used for a different purpose than just another home. And so how do you tell somebody who wants to sell to them that they're not allowed? That's where I'm having a hard time with some of the comments and some of the questions is I just think if I was that homeowner and choosing to sell, I wouldn't like somebody telling me I can't acceptance. I like to talk about that just a little bit because I'm having a hard time understanding. And I understand what you're saying exactly. You know, you want that you want that freedom. It sounds like a good use to you. it it ignores what your neighbors might want, but you know, you ought to have that in your you ought to be able to consider that. Take a step back. What does the city want for that stretch of river? Does it want to lose all of the control over, you know, this this look here now is Three Rivers Park. And as a city, we'll have just as much say over how this is used and developed and restricted as we do over Elm Creek Park Reserve, which is zero other than come and put out a fire once in a while. Yeah. So that's that's the distinction for me. What's the city's vision of use of the loss of use of this land for the for the city's purposes beyond the individual homeowner? And and it is permanent. Yeah. Yeah, once government gets land, we're not getting it back. It's gone. And it's not like it's coming to the city's parks, right? Like you guys would have like it's out of our control completely. We'd have no say in any of it. We're not losing any of the city parks, right? In in any of the plans. No. The other thing is is there are some parts of of of the current Three Rivers Park that, you know, you guys don't allow access to. Um, and that frustrates me to no end. Um, that's public land. And yet, yeah, that kind of drives me a little bit wild. But, so it isn't just the homeowner selling to a willing buyer and willing seller. It's a permanent deal that the city is giving up. It's not ours anymore. For me, it's um I want you to work with me here or Three Rivers wants. We want to work with you here, but when it comes for time for a roundabout or uh for a street to go through, we get a host. No, you're not touching one inch of our property. Y you get it from somebody else. If you don't want to work there, we don't want to work here. It's a It seems to be always a one-way street. I have to echo what Carrie's saying. I mean, if the land owner wants to sell, I get the city's position. We lose a land. I completely get that. But this is the land owner and they're offered dollars and they know that their land's going to be put into something useful for the rest of time. I'd have to side with the land owner. I just into a bigger park, into a trail, something they can come visit whenever or ride a bike down it. I have to side with the land owner. It's their property. They're the ones paying the taxes on the property. They should be able to within zoning purposes be able to do what they want with it. I don't I don't disagree on that part of it, but the part you're going to go down a slippery slope and more likely than not, we're going to wait the 50 years before we get any kind of a trail because the goal is to to acquire it all. That's the goal, right? I I get that. And they say, you know, current taxes on it is only 40 grand today. Well, in 2050, it's going to be $4.2 million. It's got to be made up somewhere. Yep. Well, I mean, everybody in this room would be dead before that all of that is acquired, more likely than not. Stop drinking water if you're saying that, [Laughter] right? You and me. Do I have opinions? Yes. I have a question and it may just be an ignorant question, just lack of knowledge. What happens? So, there's some of these properties over here that it says that you need like a retaining wall. Um, what happens if they don't want to give you an easement to put in your wall? Cuz I would be really angry if I lived in one of these and you wanted to cuz my grading you. So, what happens with that? What if they don't want to work with the current council stops? So, it just stops. Yeah. Yep. So, so you could get a different council in in four years that totally rewrites this whole chapter. Well, that happens with everything, right? We've seen this time and time again. Um, but I guess my question then is it, and maybe it's just a statement. I'm just talking out loud because I'm a verbal processor. But there's a chance that you may pigeon hole some of those land owners, right? Like into things next to them are selling, everything is gone, kind of like we were saying before, and they don't want to give you easement. They have one of two options. them to pick a lesser of the evils, right? Like put a huge retaining wall in their property or sell their property. And if that was me, I'd be like, "See you later. I'll sell my property. I'm going to get out of here." Then they do. Sorry, you're not the they. It's not us against you. Sorry, that was a bad phrase. But at that point, then three does own the entire thing and we end up in that situation anyway. But acquiring 50 ft from here to here on this side of the road is probably cheaper than acquiring those homes that they want to get. So, but switching back and forth. No, well, you don't have to shift shift. You just move the road and then you can still build on this side. You say that like it's like, oh, just move the road. Like, how's that county reconstructing the road soon? Designing and reconstructing county roads is not cheap, right? So, it's if if you look at and and I'm not the expert, so I and I'm sure we could run numbers or someone could run numbers, but buying up all of those properties, I'm not saying we should buy up all those properties versus building a whole new road, it might actually become a wash. I don't I don't know. Right. I'm just saying that we should be thoughtful and not flippant about making those. This is where I'm going. like it might be a wash price-wise for you, but the value those homes would be protected and yes, and for them not having that impact to their property because again like I'll just reiterate if that was me I would be livid. Yep. I would be in No, I would not. But I would be really I would be upset with that. Like that wouldn't be a viable option for me and if it's going to be a wash for you like at that point. You mean Yeah. I just mean like if you move Oh, whatever that I'm not saying it's easy. I'm not saying that's the route to go. I'm just saying that if it I'm for the the trail, but again like I'll like echo what Sarah said. So there's a difference between a trail and an entire like massive park. Correct. And I'm not sorry. Another park. That's all. No. And and I think it makes sense in the the chunks that are already owned to use that to the best of like their ability and to their potential. But I don't I'm not there. I'm not close to there. And this makes me uncomfortable and nervous because of the amount of impact to property owners that currently have property along there. Well, so you either they either own all of it or an easement or you're saying none. I'm saying I don't know what the that the answer is. I'm verbally processing out loud because this is how I work. So easements are also they're approved by the council. So what happens again? Lack of knowledge. So, you you asked what happens. Uh, let's just pick this parcel here, just a random parcel. I don't I don't know these people, but we need a slope easement and if they don't want to give it to us. So, Three Rivers does not have the authority to condemn property, nor does our is our board interested in condemning property just like your council. I probably wasn't in they were um we are now. So this in order for Three Rivers Council to condemn property, let's say we had a different board composition just like your board or your council can change, the city of Dayton city council has to authorize Three Rivers to use condemnation. So the condemnation authority ultimately comes from the city but it's still requires our board to also approve it because we would be the ones to do the work. What we would be exploring first is every other scenario like can you tighten up the trail so it's eight feet instead of 10. Can we reduce the clear zones from three feet to two feet? Can we work with the county to reduce shoulders? Can we reduce lanes? What we're showing today is based on our best guess following design standards, which is a 10-ft trail and three-foot shoulders and all of like that stuff before we would start modifying and not meeting all the safety standards. and and knowing that we haven't done any survey work. We haven't done any wetland delineations, but we're trying to show you spots, general areas where and things are going to be a little complex and we're not the county. We don't know what their road reconstruction will look like. They don't know what their road reconstruction is going to look like. So, we are working with the assumption that it's not going to change, but it might change. To that point, can I ask? So, let's say nothing changes on the bottom, but uh we're going to move forward in 2029 with building this um bottom. We only Yep. So, um we still got a lot of time to figure this piece out, this stretch over. Perfect. Okay. So, as you're building, is the goal and I I know the goal is to complete, but if you get to a point where there is a is a piece of property that's not willing to work with you, is the goal to build up until then at least or is it an all or nothing scenario? I just I'm curious about that. I think um that was part of what we would what we were showing with the trace paper is you go around the properties that are that are holdouts and and hopefully we can work with and there are options to go around. There are options to go around whether you're you're moving the road or tightening up a shoulder or tightening up the trails. Instead of 10 ft, you've got 8 ft. Okay. And and we'd be at the table with the county too as they design the section that they're going to reconstruct. If there's opportunities to shift the road, you know, we'd be at the table trying to, you know, encourage that uh to happen with the county uh to potentially uh eliminate or reduce the amount of uh impacts or easements that might be necessary in in difficult areas. Right. And acquiring easements in general is cheaper for Three Rivers as well. Everyone that we've engaged with and acquired property has not been interested in selling through your easement. They wanted to sell their whole property. Well, that's because they wanted to sell their whole property. They wanted to sell their whole property. I'm not going to sell you an easement if you're going to buy my whole property. Right. And and that's we're we are trying to be an accommodating buyer to what their their wishes are. And that's how it it's shaken up. Yep. I have a question on the third bullet up there. Kind of just swung me for a loop. Willing to willing sellers, private property owners selling to Three Rivers, even if their land isn't a part of this trail. Are you guys eyeballing other properties? No, it would just be um say there's a parcel on here. Uh we can pick this one right here. You wouldn't need this one. Okay. Okay. Yeah, that's a great one. You would never need this one right here. We We don't need the trails. For topography reasons, we're never going to I I can't envision that we would ever put the trail directly through this property cuz even in your perfect world, you don't have it. Yep. So, it had So, he has he's landlocked. He has an easement across this property, right? So, you And then this we we require that this become public legal access because it was not. So, now they're fine. Uh But they might say, "Hey, we're we're interested in selling." That would be a case that the city would have to consider and Three Berbers would have to consider. Is that a parcel we would want to acquire for the sake of well now you have maybe there's other benefits. There's other recreation or natural resource purposes and benefits of acquiring that parcel that are not for the trail. They still have public benefit. It's right next to Gooden Park. If there was some city hiking trails through Gooden Park that could be expanded into that property, it would be a public benefit. I took it as expanding the current park, not this here. So, thank for the clarification. It would all be along this trail. It just might be where like an easement is not needed at the uh this property. Wherever you don't see the pink or the brown. Got it. Thank you. It's a great question. Thank you for I have a question for the council too. Have has any citizen with property here expressed feeling bullied already into Okay. I'm just I was curious cuz in my brain I'm like oh it'd be lovely to be surrounded by trails but that's going across your property constantly because then you also have liability issues. What happens when someone is ignoring the trail ride or whatever and gets hurt on your land? You become liable. you. It's the same as if your neighbor. Yes. But the amount like I have one neighbor. I don't have an entire community of 200,000 people. I mean, not on my property right now. You put a trail in, suddenly the number of people going by your property has skyrocketed. You're not liable. You are liable. You are. I've consulted with our general. No, no, no, no. AD talk to my insurance and go on your private property. You're liable. I mean, that's why I have to have an umbrella because I'm across the street from the Al Creek Park Reserve and like if any I've got horses and people who come on my land. Usually, they're coming after their horse. Um, but like if they got hurt on my land, they absolutely could sue me. And maybe in the end, after however many court cases, I might prevail, but every lawyer and insurance person I talked to was like, "No, you're going to be liable. You don't want to you don't want to policy." Um, so yeah, it's different than having your neighbor the amount of traffic near you is going to go through the roof. So, and again, I like I'm not a I like parks. I like trails. I also don't want to be on a road like I'm not against this. I'm I as a council person, I am representing the citizens who came to me very concerned that they are feeling like they are being shoehorned into this. Um, and that's who I'm trying to represent. So I recognize that you guys are representing like from the perspective of what would be an amazing park for the entire city and that's those two don't like necessarily. Yeah. And sometimes one person can simultaneously want both things, right? So cuz one of the residents said really well, I was absolutely 100% in favor of a park trail and actually super excited about a park trail in my front yard. Like sign me up. Yay. But then the next time I saw the map, the trail is literally going through my house. And it's like, wait, hold up, friend. I was cool with a with a bike trail. I was 100% in favor of a bike trail. I did not want you to tear my house down. Um, and so that's where like there are people who absolutely are supportive of the trail idea and genuinely were excited about it when this first came up and now are like, "Wait, what happened?" Like we were told in an email, "Oh, don't worry about it. It's just going to be along the road. We're not planning it going through your living room." And now suddenly it's planned to go through my living room. So, are there other like case studies of where this has happened along the river in other parts of the Twin Cities and like how that's shaken out for those communities and and the residents who were so not along the river that I'm aware of, but Three Rivers has regional trails. We have over 180 miles of regional trails and they all start with a line on a map. And that line on a map, somebody always owns the line, the land underneath it. And uh the Medicine Lake Regional Trail was really no different. And it took over 30 years to assemble all the property rights. And a lot of it was this exact same exercise of working with private property owners. And how did it shake out in terms of the 30 years and working with the city as well as developers and the private property owners? Uh some of it full at full property acquisition, some of it easements, but it's all fully assembled now. And it goes all the way from Elm Creek Park Reserve to Fish Lake to French. Is that 15 miles long? Maybe. Yeah, 15 miles long. It's one of our uh highest user satisfaction trails in our system and we've been able to work uh with all of the um road jurisdictions that there's very few road crossings that are at grade. So once you're on it, it's like you are on a linear park. Um and it's super desirable. If you look at, you know, obviously I'm I'm not trying to be flippant or disregard the private properties that are along the river corridor. As a Three Rivers representative, it's my job to represent the broader region. And if you look at anyone that's selling their house and lives next to one of our parks or next to our trail corridors, one of the things that they will list and usually in the first sentence is private access to blank and blank trail or park or right across the street from blank and blank trail because people move there for that access because it's desirable and It is a different type of amenity to be adjacent to the trail than it is to be on a greenway type corridor. Uh this still works. It is just different and you have to think about what you want for your community moving forward and thinking about how your community is going to change. And it doesn't have to be all of this or all of this. I think it would be helpful for us to know are there certain areas that like as you're thinking about how your community might change where where you're looking at the line and saying you know what it the line doesn't really make sense or it doesn't really change from here to here if you buy the parcel or not. So it doesn't make sense. Let's let's work with Three Rivers or or tell them like let's let's not do acquisition here. But while there's a huge benefit if we tell them they can acquire all of this because now all of a sudden you've got a half a mile that's totally off the trail and a bunch of land and that land is flat and developable and oh and by the way it works with our water trail or it works with all these other things like you guys know your city better than us. You know your goals better than us. I your comments about the roundabout like I hear you and I I think I can say from Three Rivers perspective like we feel that too. I think partnerships go both ways and I I don't want to say like hey we're either you buy into this or we're out of here but I think there's an opportunity for us to say how can we kind of figure out what that common goal is. um we don't ha like we don't have to do this and we don't need to push that but I I think there is some momentum to build off of this a little bit and get your residents something that you can feel really proud of and and people are going to say like wow I want to live in Dayton because guess what they've got one of the best regional trails in the whole metro it's right on the Mississippi River we've got great access to it. We can fish there. We can kayak there. There's bike rentals. Whatever the case may be. But that that's how you that's how you become a desirable community. That's how you that's how you change not the 20% of Dayton that you already own. Yeah. But that's all in one spot. I mean, my family moves every average every four years. This is exactly what we look for. The reason why I chose Dayton was because I went on your website and saw those three things. So why I came on parks was because I value those three things. So it's kind of I don't know. I I lived in St. Paul before this uh in the Macroand neighborhood and they have a phenomenal trail that goes right along the Mississippi that's kind of like this and it's and that's what you very and it's still very like I mean obviously super desirable to live near there and and it feels very residential at the same time like I don't know it doesn't feel like you're losing much of course I'm saying that not as someone who owns any of the Riverside property. But um I I I agree with you that I I understand that how this is desirable for people who move here if it's willing and they're not forcing anything. So that's I mean I'd feel different if it was forced but it's willing. Well, there's certainly time for this piece. Mhm. And this piece to me it's not that big a deal to run road here and you've got some of the loop loops in here. Well, I I personally I full agree like I don't think you need to make a decision right really on this whole piece other than where we have willing sellers that are patiently waiting and we know that their parcels are parcels that are already identified as impact parcels. granted they want to sell their whole parcel and not an easement. Um, and then strategically really looking at that eastern half and saying or and and I'm not recommending this. I'm throwing this question out for the council and the parks commission to say I think there's like eight parcels on that half on the 2029 half. Do you want to make be more proactive with having Three Rivers send a letter out and make inquiries still on a willing seller on any of those parcels or just call it good? Well, correct me if I'm wrong. Any willing seller doesn't have to sell to three They don't. Anybody can buy it. Anybody can buy it. But if if you are wanting to take advantage of the 2029 county road project, there is no advantage about having the park required it. Oh, it's not an advantage. I was sure in your in your advantage for having the trail off the road as much as possible, right? Yes. There's a lot of trail off the road. Off the road here. Yeah, that's a Yep. I get it. I I understand you're in Three River seat. You are you're counting for this. That's what you're supposed to be doing. So, you're asking though if if it's okay. Is that something you need to ask us if it's okay to send letters to those? No. I or we're we're totally fine doing what we're doing, which is absolutely nothing. Three Rivers hasn't been sending letters with the exception of um when we acquired some properties here, there was several neighbor disputes and we wanted to go in and say, "Hey, we're going to be the new neighbor, so if there's any concerns, here's our contact information. Feel free to contact us so that we can get things resolved and you know what's going on." And then there was another property we acquired and uh we were keeping a parking lot so people could use it for shoreline fishing. And so we wanted the neighbors to know that there there was going to be public access. Those are the only two letters or instances that we've sent letters. Everything else has been community members either word of mouth or doing their own homework and due diligence. Um or properties were on the open market and we worked with realators. So you are monitoring if a if a property comes for sale. Okay. Um so I guess one of my big I appreciate that we're not in a hurry, right? But we are because we're we can build we can build this just for the 2029. Oh, I'm not talking about I'm not talking about you guys and the road. I'm talking about us. We are in the process of paying someone to design Elsie Stevens, right? Oh, sure. It seems silly to do that if it's suddenly going to be part if the long-term plan is for this giant thing to happen. You already have a trail through LC that we are paid for. Yeah. But I'm just saying like it seems to me like we should really have a vision and a plan so that we are executing the same vision and the same plan and that we are executing this vision this plan while you guys are meanwhile waiting for this other vision and plan like thinking about water trail access thinking about like all of these things should be planned together not that they have to be built at the same time but like we need to have I think it's important as a city that we have a plan for what this is going to look like about priorities at LC Stevens if there's possibility for other things that we were thinking of initially being in LC Stevens to go somewhere else. Exactly. Like and then we don't have to put it all in LC Stevens because it would make more sense to have like you were talking about maybe the fishing or talking about the boat launches, kayak launches, bike rentals. Like if the long-term goal and is to get this all to be one park, we don't need to pack it all into LC Stevens. Let's spread it out and put it in the ideal spot. Um, but if instead of maybe the whole thing, we're focused on like just this chunk cuz this is a really nice big corridor and then some of these areas that doesn't really come off the road no matter what. So like who cares one way or the other the path stays there then don't worry about that and then good and park has a different right like I just I think we need to have a set vision for what this is going to look like and then move forward with that vision and not just these onesie twoosies where we get backed into a corner and now money has been spent and decisions were made and now either we have a complete another mismatch or we have like duplicate things literally Like you were saying, you want to get off the trail for a while, right? But like why would we want two boat launches that are like five feet apart? Like what's the point of that? Sure. So like where and like the topography, where are good boat launches in and out, right? Not every place makes for good go where does where are the good fishing spots? Like but if we don't have that land yet, how do we do that? Well, I think that's where we should that's that's part of why I think we kind of need to plan at a certain point like this is these are the things that makes the most sense to get because they're going to be the hardest and they're going to require easements and we should just plan that long-term we're going to get them. It might have to be however many years in the future. Um but just waiting and seeing what happens is just not that's not how you plan a city. Like at a certain point you have to make a plan and then you have to go forward and execute that plan. You've got your comp plan coming up. You do it as part of your comp plan. Well, that's what I'm saying. You just do the circle that says park search area. Yes. Like all those things are coming right on top of each other. So, like I appreciate that y'all could wait 30 years like you did with the other trail, but like we can't we need to get this done right now. So, that's why I'm I'm grateful. I would love to keep these, put them up on the walls and have like a chance and like have the community come in like let's take But this is our chance. like this is their chance to really make a an awesome plan. So, because I would like Elsie Stevens to be a premier park. Um, and I would love to see ideally a perfect like you can do a boat launch off the historic village, come into LC Stevens, rent a bike, bike back up to the historic village, get yourself a nice lunch at a cute little cafe. Like, I think that could be an amazing thing, but I think we need to be intentional about it and not just wait and see what happens and hope for the best. Question for the council. So just my interpretation is that there's majority of support for easements. Is that accurate? Yeah. Yeah. Never had any issue with easements uh for parcel by parcel acquisition from willing sellers? Not yet. For nothing or depends on the parcel. I think we need to have a discussion where we chew some of this up. You wanted a discussion depending like on the parcel by parcel or on the whole court thing right now. The whole thing we need the whole thing at least the whole picture I guess in my mind right not just this well this is the whole picture for us right no for there's another picture coming that we need to deal with. So, okay. So, I I I I just need another work session with the parks and council. I think we can keep these you right to to pull all this information in and and ponder some of these things. I I would also like to know, you know, I I guess maybe you've indicated it somewhat, but parcels that are going to be hard to do where you don't have the entire lot, it would be nice to know those, not just that you you need an easement and a wall. Um it it'd be nice to to have some of that information, too. But there is one parcel on here is noted that um that we would need an easement if we don't get the entire parcel. But if we were to get the entire parcel um then uh it would be much easier to to construct the trail and and uh you know avoid the being close to the road and that's that's under the scenario as the road is right now. Correct. Everything is under the scenario as the road is right because to me it's it's much easier and you guys got way more pull than the average Joe with the county. We used to you still do. So I mean you can easily go to the county and say hey I need we need to make this work for us. We need 50 ft here. You don't even whether it works or not. I mean that's that's your deal. So am I hearing the direction from the council to have another workshop to discuss the whole corridor from border to border and the discussion would be around like long-term vision for anything that would go in this court. I would like that. Yes. Yeah. Like a full final plan because we are talking about a change in land use, right? The 2040 plan doesn't show any of of this greenway thing. It shows low density residential as it is today. Then what information would you like or what questions do you like? Would you like prepared? Otherwise, we're going to be looking at the same thing in the same conversation. Yeah. Well, I think we'll have had time to process it, too. I mean, and if you were to ask me those questions now, I'm going to say no at all because I haven't thought about it. Okay. I also think it gives some of the property owners along here who've been concerned. Um, and one of the things that I've heard repeatedly is, I want to see where this trail is. Like, I just want to see where this trail is because I they haven't like what would my easement options be? Because some people feel like they haven't even been told like what would an easement look like, right? And now we have that. And so it would also give those property owners a chance to talk to the council um and say, you know what, I'm okay like I would be okay with that easement. Like I'd be fine with that or no, I would not be okay with that. And so like and they might not ne like that property owner might not be comfortable saying that right now in front of this entire room in a publicly recorded meeting. Um but they might be comfortable coming to us in between. So as far as what information could happen between now and then, that is something that we could definitely get some more information on. So you you would like us just to sit tight? Not for very long because I recognize that you have people who want to sell and they're waiting on this decision and you're waiting on this decision. So I'm not saying months and months, but like maybe that's fine. Just so we're just so I'm clear that we're not compiling or answering any other questions. And that's just for me. I can't speak for the rest of the council. We will not be tableabling then at the next at the um public works open house because we will not have anything to share. Would you like to show this at the open house? Yeah, I want this at the open house. Is there a reason why we couldn't have both of these at the open house? I think there is. It depends on what we um see as a vision as a city. I don't think we should be putting this up unless we're really behind that. Okay. As an option or if there's some hybrid between the two that is your final vision. I'm certainly not behind this back here. I'd like to see that plan built in the next 10 years. And to me, it's not that big a deal. Heaven forbid if you got to drive along the road for that from there to theirs about a half a mile and it might not even be that far. And it'll be cheaper building easements and um make a burm than it will be to acquire them properties. But you're afraid of if we show this one to the city. That's not even realistic because you're not going to acquire every property. It's not It's not realistic unless you wait a 100 years for everybody to die off. They waited 30. Yeah. Um do you have indicated in here the people who have want who want to sell and that are currently in a holding pattern? Are those indicated? I believe so. Let me double check. There's at least one There's two. There are two. We can just mark them real quick. I'll just do a little red dot if that's okay. Yeah. Yeah. [Music] Cuz my concern is for like Do you see that little little leg right in the middle? Yeah. How are they going to Would you feel could take it radically one way or the other? Some people be like, "This is amazing. I have no neighbors. Well, I have park all around me." Except some people are like, "Well, I got traffic all around me." Well, I guess that's we would need to just ask if Yeah, that's why I'm That's why I like that. He's right here. You're talking theoretical and we're all right here. Well, I didn't want to put anyone on the spot if they weren't comfortable speaking. Like I said, this is a public meeting in front of a lot of people, so I didn't want to make anyone have to like say it now if they wanted to come talk afterwards. Is there time for comment really quick or that's your meeting, isn't it? It's a joint meeting called by the council. So I would defer I don't have a problem. I mean they should have come up. Come on up. Say your name and I think he has to write his address. I'll just real quick cuz name and address and then Josh 17100 date road right next to the red dot that I just put there. kind of a skinny strip of land there that that could be kind of landlocked. I guess it's kind of um repeating what you had just said a little bit ago, it'd be really nice to see if those pieces of land are gone and the trail comes up and around. What would that easily look like if everybody kind of looks my house is right there? So, there's a few maps that are floating around where I got lines kind of going right through, you know, and I know the line isn't perfect, but what would that easement look like right there? You know, it would be nice to see that. I guess that would be There's a lot of other people along this um roadway too that aren't here right now, but it'd be nice to see what that would really look like and then they can make a decision from there on what they might want to do. But your question or concern is mostly around the easement and not around like being the sole strip of pro of like a house. So I when this first was adopted, sorry to put you on the spot. You don't have to answer that either. So when this was first adopted and in we bought our house in like 2016, the next year we started hearing about this bike path and it sounded great. Yeah. I I can't go out and bike down the road right now. My daughter's three years old. I'm not bringing her down the road, you know. So, I've always kind of figured I'm gonna lose some land in the front, you know, which I don't have a lot of. But then now lately, I'm kind of going to be living inside of a park. And I'm not sure if that's exactly what for one, the plan was the the whole time, but I'm not really sure if I that's really what I want. Now, I don't necessarily want to tell people that they can't do what they want to do with their land, but I'm not as concerned with that. I'm kind of concerned is how is this path going to come up to me and then go around me? Are they going to kind of make me feel like I'm getting squeezed out a little bit? Not forced out, but but squeezed out. So, it's kind of where where I'm coming from in that spot. So, you have a steep driveway coming into your property now. So, I actually share the property with Tom right here, who's my next door neighbor, who's the the red dot. So, um and it's it it goes down and there's actually a road right a driveway that goes around and I've always looked at that saying I'm probably going to lose that. And you know, now if we can push the road across that'd be that'd be awesome. You know, I've never thought about that up until the last couple months. But, you know, so I know I'm kind of one of those properties that have that big circle around it right now. I haven't really talked about it, boyed a whole lot, but you know, definitely interested in seeing what that would look like. Where is that trail going to go? Is it going to dip in just a little bit around me? Maybe it's not so bad. But until you can kind of see that, there's this big question mark out there. And I think that those question marks out there are making people kind of a little worried along here. So Kelly, you could build a 200 foot boardwalk in the front, right? If you had to. A boardwalk? Yeah. I Well, you can engineer, I think, anything. You can pretty much build anything. I mean, you build across the swamp. So, yeah. I don't know if a boardwalk is the right solution. No, I know. I know. But you had spoken about a 10 foot wide with three foot clear zones. Yeah. So we're talking 16 total feet. So if you look from your road 16 feet, you know. Yeah. Go 20. 16 from the edge of the rightway, right? Yeah. Well, you could you could still be within the right of way though. That was my other question is where does the the how does that 16 ft overlap with the right of way on the road? You are at a level of design that we are not at. Okay. And it's a lot, it's really hard to find that as a property owner sometimes exactly what that's going to look like and everything. So now there's a couple other neighbors along the the river that maybe 10 15 feet doesn't really bother them that much. They just want to know that that's where it's going to be and it's not going to they're not going to need to buy the property. And you got typography. It's a little bad, but there's a few other ones that are kind of like me that are kind of like there's a handful that are real wondering what this is going to really look like and whatot. So 25, you know, and is that going to be something at some point you guys can show me and and can say like this is what it's going to be? And that's I think that's what has been missing a lot in some of this stuff. And a lot of the neighbors are just noticing empty lots and houses being torn down. So Kelly, is it feasible to create some sort of like renderings for each of the parcels of land that are still privately owned so that they could kind of see what that looks like within their property. Not just a line, but like it's a actually remember it. It's a lot of work that comes with significant costs to do the type or the level of engineering that I think you all are looking for. And we could do that exercise, but keep in mind that it's a hypothetical because we don't really know what the road situation is. And if the road situation changes, then we've spent the $100,000 to show you a hypothetical that if the road changes as development changes and we can push the road south, we probably don't we might not need all those, right? And it's that's that's kind of the point of this exercise with the trace paper is um I feel you. It is incredibly hard to predict and look into the crystal ball and say it's exactly going to be here. These are what the impacts are going to be. Um, somebody took a lot of time on that trace paper and I appreciate that because that's the most it's the farthest that we've got as a as a diagram and it is Yeah, it's only a diagram. That's the farthest that, you know, we've been able to kind of see lately on what and we in full disclosure, we've really been spinning our wheels because um while we've had this, you know, in the long range plan, it talks about this, it didn't diagram it out or put it on a map. Partly because you don't you never want to show the trail going through someone's living room. That doesn't feel good to anyone involved. It doesn't feel good to the decision makers. It sure doesn't feel good to the people whose living room it is. And that line is so flexible because it's based on a thousand different things. And until you do that engineering, and you guys have probably gone through it with LC Stevens and all of the other construction projects the city does at any given time, that things change and they're so fluid. Um, I think it, you know, looking at a handful of properties and kind of figuring out like, well, a a property typical like yours, this is what that might look like. And then you could say it would apply to, you know, these three or four. We can do that as just a very general diagram. But I I don't want to go through the exercise of engineering all of this out when we know we're not doing trail construction and we don't have any willing sellers and brain. Yeah. So I have two questions. One, why did my brain just blank on that first question? Oh, okay. What is the absolute minimum? So your ideal trail 10ft trail 3T on either side, right? That's that's the idea. You could do eight and two and two. Okay. I think knowing what the the bare minimum is because I you could at least go to your house and be like, "Okay, I think it's here." Yeah. And then I can measure you know 12 feet. You you can go from the edge of the road. Y and say we're you got tight right away. So we're going to do a curb and we'll put storm sewer in and then go your 14 ft. I'm looking at you the expert. That would be the minimum. That would be the minimum. So you could at least do that, right? which is some you know cuz that's the number I haven't been watching. Do you know where your property corners are? I mean I know about where they are. So then you kind of So that's something that I haven't really had to ask myself that much because I got one neighbor and besides you guys and you got a buddy that's really good with construction skills. He could probably also help kind of spitball what your impacts are going to be. But at least that that's a number I haven't seen. So that's a helpful number to know. like that is that is what you're looking at. So you can at least guesstimate. It's not a perfect and you you'd have slope easement to just tie in all your grading work and you know that would be temp and I know this really isn't the public spot to be doing this. I think was supposed to be down kind of listening but I'm now talking. So you know here we go. Yeah. Um, I I've always kind of accepted the fact that that would be potentially, you know, and and and that's fine, but then it's kind of like, okay, well, now is it going to be maybe an easement, but four years down the road when this happens, is that going to turn into knowing now we want your property and we're going to be able to take it, you know, planning, building, you know, stuff like that, you know, doing whatever else, you know. So that's that's the unknowns of some of the the other neighbors and community. Unfortunately, until it gets engineered, we're not going to know to the specificity that maybe you're looking for. You know, we took our best shot uh with topography with the given the topography and and our 16 foot wide corridor standard, right, at 5% grade. Um but you still want to consider this line on the map to be conceptual. It's still it'll give you some ideas of where it needs to be next to the road and not next to the road and potentially where there might need to be retaining walls or not, but it's it's still very high level conceptual going to come and go to the road if if you don't if you if you want to stay in your house, it's going to be long enough. So then my second question I remember was um at what point do you build it? Oh yeah. So 2029 is our plan for over there up to where again uh Vber with the county. Okay. And then this there's no time frame yet. We don't have it in our CIP yet. Um we don't have so we don't have funding earmarked for this piece yet. Is the intent though to align that trail work with the reconstruction of the road? that would be great, but until we know when the county's going to reconstruct it, we also don't want to bank on it. So, we're we're kind of waiting for the county to put a year on it and then decide whether that year is feasible for us or not. We don't we don't really like buying a bunch of property and then not having it available for public use, but we also know you're going to have a little bit of that as you assemble property. That's the nature of putting together linear corridor. How that's just a curiosity. Um you mentioned you don't really have money allocated for for the trail yet, right? Not for construction. Yeah. How is it that in a heartbeat you can come up with 500 grand for a house? So, uh probably similar to the city. We have different pots of money for different things. and our acquisition. Uh we're fortunate enough when things are part of an adopted long range plan, up to 75% of our acquisition costs are reimbursed through the Met Council. And so that allows our money to go a lot further. Wouldn't that be sweet? Wouldn't that be sweet? Yeah. Where do they get their magical pot of money? So shake the trees. Most of the for most of the money that we use on this trail corridor, the 75% is then split. 60% comes from legacy money. So that constitution amendment and then 40% comes from Met Council GEO funds and then the other 25% is three rivers contributions. So you got a you got the pie 7525 25 Three Rivers 75 Met Council and then that 75 is 60% comes through the legacy 40% comes from the Met Council funds. Yes. That's why we can we only have so much per year that we can tap into that. That's for acquiring property, not acquiring trails or building trails, right? Yep. So we've we have more flexibility and and because these this is the only corridor you guys in our whole county where people are have been calling frequently saying we're interested in selling. We've got trails planned in eight other cities right now similar scenarios and people aren't calling. People are just calling here and I can't I mean I everyone's got a unique story. We we have a willing seller here that I think is interested in sharing their if it's okay for them to sure share as well. Say your name, your address and the form. Do you want to share? Yeah, I would like to. So I live you have to say your name and your address and then you can share your comments. My name is Tom Lander and I live next to Josh at 17060 Dayton River Road. And I want to make it clear that Three Rivers didn't come to me. I went to them. And one of the reasons I did back in 2020 October, I got to cover. I spent six days in the hospital, 30 days in a nursing home, and uh out of the whole thing, I ended up being a long hauler. So, I've got problems with fatigue, shortness of breath, uh depression, all of that stuff. And I've got a bad back, a bad right knee. And uh the biggest problem for me is I just cannot keep up the work there. I can't keep the yard nice anymore. And they made me a decent offer which I had I had checked. My daughter-in-law checked with her uh husband's niece. She's a realy. Looked it up. They said it was a very good price. Now, to put this house on the open market, I have to be honest, I found a defect. And I don't there was a when the house was originally built, they added on the kitchen and a garage. And the guy that built it was kind of well I don't think anybody around here would know him anymore because I've been there 40 years but he had been known to add stuff on and not get it approved. Yeah. Well, the kitchen slopes down a little bit about 2 in and the garage Josh has seen I showed him the other day. It's about 3 in moved out. Now, for me to put that on the open market and I've been in construction, I am looking at 50 to 60,000 plus realy costs. So, that is my scenario. Thank you. I had a 95 year old aunt to live with me with me for over three years, but I had to put her in memory care. I just couldn't keep her at home anymore and keep up with her too. Yeah. You know, so that is my scenario. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. Where are we going with this? So, timing. We We've got an open house in two weeks. And is there support to have this map shown? The bottom one. The bottom one. The bottom one. Yeah. Just collect comments from the public. I think so. I don't have a problem with the bottom one. The top one. Not that one. Okay. because to me it's not realistic. And if if we if we strive for the top one, we're going to wait that long just to see if it happens. And I'd like that trail built. I mean, Three Rivers could build the whole thing if they wanted to. And just advertising to the public, this is just one option. There are many options. Yeah. And make it clear that this is this is an option. Is this effectively a starting point? Yes. This is the starting point that we are that the the city council and the parks commission and three river park district is talking about with the focus of the 2029. Yeah. Could we highlight that's the part like that's the part that's east of expert? Yeah. So if we were to have this out during the open house, wouldn't it be good probably to have someone from Three Rivers then? Someone. Yeah. There it is pretty clearly marked. Yeah. Just for any question. Otherwise, we can give them our own information. You've been along as long as or around as long as I have. I think um you and I go way back to 2016, I think. 2012. Oh, you me coming. Council would like to have another workshop with the park commission to discuss the whole corridor from border to border. I think so. Okay. Before the open house. No, no, no. The 13th. I don't think you can get that done anymore. Um, what time frame are we looking at for that? Well, I guess the question I have, what questions do you have for staff or three rivers that you would like to have answers to before the next workshop? That's hard to say. We're just seeing this for the first time tonight. Yeah, we'll have to get you those questions. I think one of the questions that probably needs to be answered sooner rather than later is those two homes there. Are we okay if these people want to sell? Are we Is the council going to say yes or do we want to think more before we say yes to these two? I think I want to think more. Okay. So, I I have one small reservation about the plan. Um I don't know if I'm going to say this eloquently. So, fired her. I apologize in advance if I don't. I would like to be able to I we don't necessarily need to show your community members this vision, but I think your community members should have an opportunity to weigh in or help create the vision for their community. And certainly as the council and the park commission, you guys have the full decision making authority to do that. But I don't know if they really get to weigh in. on whether they like this option or whether they want something different if they don't see that. So, I'm a little nervous to go to the open house next week and just show them this when that's not the only option and there's like 500 options in between without and and I also fully understand why you wouldn't want to show them this because you don't support it. So, I I'm not sure we're ready yet to do the open house because I don't I I want to make sure we're all on the same page before we collect community feedback. And I want to make sure when we're collecting community feedback or sharing community feedback that we're doing so with the broader community in mind um and giving them the opportunity to really be engaged. Otherwise, there's really no point in asking them to be engaged if they're like, what are they weighing in on? So, you would want to do a separate open house once we got our vision. Unfortunately, I think we kind of have to let next week come and go and and certainly we could have a an email signup sheet and say, "Hey, three rivers in the city are working on trying to figure out the West Mississippi River Regional Trail. If you want to stay engaged or get more information, sign up here and then when we get our ducks in a row, we'll send you an email. Um, because it's it's this half is coming up in 2029. Is there any world in which it makes sense just to show this? The county just had an open house on that corridor. Okay. And so all of those residents had received a mailing and had an opportunity to go and talk about their preferences and priorities. Um, Three Rivers was in attendance just as like tableabling and didn't have anything of this detail at all. We just were collecting email addresses of people that wanted to stay engaged because we wanted to give the parks commission and the council the opportunity to really think through like what what are you supportive of? because we don't want to show something that you wouldn't ultimately approve in the long run, but we also don't want to not give the residents an opportunity to say what what they envision for their community. Yeah, cuz I get not wanting to show like this half especially, but I was just curious about with this is if I mean I don't know when when do plans have to they're working a corridor study and Jason maybe you know like the detail of what they're going to come out with. Um they I mean we had an information session and we explained we wanted the trail to be a strong component of that including crossings and other connections. Um I don't really know what to expect on how detailed it will be. Um it'll certainly be considered with it and I think August is when they're looking at as the study completes in August. Yeah. But that's not their design plans, right? Yeah. So yeah, they're not going to know the placement of the road for a while. They're just collecting feedback at the moment and they're going to incorporate that into the design. Yeah. So that's could be a couple of years out before we see I think we still have time to get it right. Mhm. And to be really thoughtful about our engagement. Let's say Magic Universe we decide we want this. If if we sent letters to all the residents and said, "Hey, Three Rivers is willing to buy our house. We can't afford to do it. Okay. Overnight. That's what I'm wondering. Your magic pool of money, there is actually a bottom to that magic pool of money. Yeah. Every year there's a cap. Okay. And our board matches it and so Okay. So, it couldn't be you. You'd rather us not We're very strategic about and we have other commitments across the district. Um, it's nice how there's a bottom to that magic. I mean, I wish there was, but Yeah. And then just a question probably for the engineer. What does it mean cut grade for wall close to house? Uh is that next to a retaining wall? Um there is a wall near it. Um so there's a retain there is a retaining wall. Yeah. Cut grade just means you you need it' be a cut wall condition rather than a fill wall. So okay, you know there's an embankment there now that you'd be cutting into fill the wall. Okay. Okay. As opposed to a dish that you need to fill. Yeah. I'm just trying to get a feel for all the different like the the tricky spots. Yeah, the more you drive it, the more you see. It's not Oh, yeah. No, I I have. So, public comments. I'm Yeah. Yeah. Address. I'll stand here. I just want to add a you know a different perspective to the conversation. Crystalant 16860 Dayton River Road. I am in this area here right where we're talking um just a couple doors down from Josh and Tom. Um you know I'd ask you all to put yourselves in in in my shoes. Okay. So I don't want to hold back Tom from doing what he needs to do and I don't want to hold back a park. Right. And and I think the trail has always sounded lovely to me. Right. Having a trail I could take my kids. It sounds wonderful. Okay. but put yourself literally in our shoes in a position where we don't understand what's happening to our literal house tomorrow or 5 years from now. So, I've been painstakingly updating my house. We bought a modest home. We bought it in 2011. We've put in all the work ourselves. We did I watched my husband put in a deck board by board by board for the last two summers. We put in 30 years solar panels because I care about the environment, right? We've planted 60 trees from the Laurel tree farms on our property because we care that much about the the corridor and about the river. We've had various folks out to the riverbank so that we can ensure that we take care of that river properly as do many of our other neighbors. Okay? And so we've put all this into our house and then you see these plans and it says, "Well, maybe you'll get it. Maybe we'll take your house, maybe we won't. What do I do with that? Do I replace my screen door that I wanted to replace this screen or don't I? Is my house going to be torn down? So, I'm just asking for some appreciation for the situation that we're in that these are real lives. We poured our hearts into this. If my house is bought and taken, um, sure, it may be fair market value, but I will never buy another house in Dayton again. I I won't be able to afford it. I'm being priced out of this community and so take my house. Fine. But but you're taking it for a trail, a bike trail that can actually go by my house. Imagine if that was your house and where you lived or somebody that you love. This isn't for a big giant project. This is a bike trail and you can get past my house. And so why won't you just vote on the trail to go through? Just build the trail. If Tom wants to sell, fine. me. So, you're supportive of the trail as long as it stays on the road is what you're saying. Yes, we and I think I speak for most of my neighbors um that that we've always been supportive of the trail. That's why we haven't spoken up until we started noticing all these properties. Nice houses. I mean, they're affordable houses. They're not the beautiful, you know, houses that we see being built new, but we're seeing them being dismantled and and it I mean, it's just heartbreaking. This is this is where we live. This is our home. We do the Dayton River Road um National Night Out Cream and we have 50 people come. We are a neighborhood. If some people want to sell fine, but please don't forget us in these conversations. We are here and we just want to live in this community, too. So, that's what I ask cuz no one's on a quarter acre. By the way, I think uh one thing I'll say cuz I I know you've heard some of the parks commission folks say like that, you know, we think this is lovely. I I would reiterate I I'm aligned with you on we are good with people who are willing and not or and we at least for me personally, I would never be okay with any sort of forcible change to a property. I It's amazing that you've made such a great area. I wouldn't want to see those trees in your house torn down either. So, yeah, I don't really have a problem with the willing part of it, but I don't like the comment, Kelly, that you made. You wanted to go and go after seven or eight more and send them. Oh, no. I'm sorry. I I I posed a question. Uh if you're if you knew that there's a opportunity and a construction project coming, are you content or happy with that or do you want to see something else? I don't have a preference or Three Rivers doesn't have a preference on that. I could go along with letting those two go. But I want a time frame on when that whole trail is going to be built. I can't give you that. Okay. 30 years is a good start. Yeah. You want to say something? No. Okay. I guess I if you don't mind, I guess I didn't plan to talk, but Nathan New 16950 Dayton River Road, uh, three houses down from Josh, right next to Crystal here. Um, part of my frustration with all of this is I'm one of those properties identified earlier in your slides that was purchased, I purchased it after this plan was put in place. Now, the guy did pass away prior to me buying it, which I understand, but it seems like when there's a comprehensive plan put in place that's this far out that was in place prior to me selling, there should have been something tied to the property itself so that I would have been aware of what's going on. I did find out not terribly long after we moved in that, oh, there is going to be a trail. There was talk on the other side. It might be on this side, but it would be along the road was all the intent. And I'm not really opposed to a trail at all. I mean, if I could if we're going to do it, I would rather see it next year because then I could have kids that would get use out of it. Um, right now it seems by the time it's put in, they'll be they'll be in college, they won't use the trailer, more farther. Yeah. Yeah. So that's one of my biggest frustrations is now I went through I was in front of planning I was in front of council several years ago to reszone and block up eight of our houses to a different zoning so I could do with the property what I planned to. We moved here with the plan to stay maybe till we died, you know, or until we decided it wasn't worth the maintenance and upkeep and we wanted to hand it on to our kids or whatever. But that's, you know, was going to be our decision. And now I'm stuck in the middle of I did this resoning. I put a significant investment into the property already and I'm in the middle of what do I do with it? Am I okay with what's going on? All of this really could have been avoided had there been a little clearer indication of what's going on. And again, if the trails goes in, great. If if all the properties around me start to feel pinched, I'm not going to like that. I mean, I can I can tell you my wife's I've been to a lot of these things just to try to keep myself up to date. And now I'm missing nights every other week with my kids, my family. somebody else is having to take care of different things, engagements that we're already committed to. I had to have somebody come take the kids somewhere else tonight so I could be here. Things like that. It's so it's just there's frustration there. Again, I a park in general is not a bad thing, but I don't want to feel like I don't get to use my property for what I bought it for, or all of a sudden I'm stuck having to decide, is this even going to be what it what it is? Then I'm looking at interest rates that are double what or more what I paid. And there's more cost to me if I have to, you know, if I decide to be a willing seller, so be it. But it's not just you give us fair market value. There's a lot more cost to me at this time. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, maybe that changes one day, maybe it doesn't, but so it's maybe not as elegantly put as some of the other stuff, but it is nice to see some things. We're working towards something. It's just I'd like to have a little bit more confidence that this isn't a concern I have to deal deal with in 10 or 15 years because 10 or 15 years I want to be well planted and I'm not going anywhere and now I have to reassess what I decided four years ago which was to be here to make this the home for the next 30 40 or more years. So thanks. Thank you. I'm going to come back to the three questions on the board. So, just checking in again on the for the five council members. Is there support for a trail easement? Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Is there support for uh Three Rivers buying land for willing sellers? I want a time frame on it. Otherwise, otherwise we're going to wait until we can get it all green. The time frame on when the trail is going to be built. Okay. And maybe you guys got to go back to all the board and find out when that is 10 years from now. I mean, this part is going to be we already know that. When's this part going to be done? It's excuse me. I'm Jonathan Blaming. I'm the associate superintendent for planning and designers. The most likely scenario for the trail being built to the end will be tied to the road reconstruction. We don't have the time frame from Henipin County at this time. So, we can't tell you the exact year, but when that road gets rebuilt is likely when the trail in this the western section gets rebuilt. And at that point, you're just going to go with whatever properties you happen to have. Right. So, if you have it, you're using it. If you don't have it, you're not going to use it. Right. Okay. and a rebuild 25 years. I don't know. Our trails are reconstructed every 30 years. So, but you may have a trail along the road for 30 years and depending on what land you own, it might move. You can Yeah. That you you can be this, let's say we build this tomorrow and you're still evolving towards this on a willing seller basis. It it's it's fluid. It's not a we're we're locking in on it doesn't have to be we're locking in on this and that's the only other solution. It could be this is where we are today, but we're going to keep our options open on that willing seller basis and then over time as things evolve and as acquisitions happen on a willing seller basis and we're reconstructing or doing significant maintenance, you can make those adjustments. How does Three Rivers acquire their money for trails? That was the what we just talked about. Um we have our own pot of money for acquisition which comes through tax. Oh, the trail. No, I want Oh, construction. Construction money. Construction money. Um a lot of grants. Okay. Legacy money and our own uh bonding capacity and tax revenue. Did I miss anything? Henipin County grants. Henipin County grants as well. Some grants. grants from the county, the Met Council, federal grants, state grants. Yeah. So, when you said a minute ago a reconstruction, you're talking about this part, right? And you're talking about in 2050, 2060ish. I think it would be before that. It's going to be well before that. You think you'll in about 10 years. I don't know if that's true anymore, but I heard that this road was going to get rebuilt. They haven't indicated with any of our discussions anything west of Vixsburg. Okay. So I I don't know a timeline. It's beyond 10 years is all I can say because it's as far as they document. Okay. And there lies a problem because we got all kinds of squeezes for the county for money. Yeah. Okay. So basically regardless of anything we say here today from Vixsburg here is probably not going to be built for 10 years. Is that fair to say? We at least don't have plans for that. But we Three Rivers operates really in an opportunistic basis. So if suddenly money fell from the sky Yeah. or all of a sudden it's like, hey, there's you guys are doing work, we're doing work, there's an intersection improvement, we can be most efficient and effective with our money if we move. Now our board has been really accommodating to those requests. Um, what's the minimum amount you would put in opportunistically? Like, well, you know, we worked with the city at LC Stevens and at Coke to do a thousand feet at a time. We've just asked in those scenarios that the county or excuse me, the city take on the on and M until it really serves a regional significance. Okay. Because we don't That's right. We're really just not organized to to send maintenance out and do. You wouldn't build them landlocked unless we wanted to and then you just you guys had a sure a bigger plan and we're just a piece of it. Uh but if like let's say we're looking like we've got the let's look at this one. Um like through this area there's a lot of opportunity just getting a couple more parcels that could be really awesome. And we already have parkland that we know there is parking or we want to add you guys want to add parking. Great. Let's think about is there loops and we're paying maybe we're not paying for the whole loop but we're paying for the part of the loop that's the regional trail and you guys are doing the the loop part that serves the local piece just like we did at LC Stevens. Um so again it's not an all or none but you just have to figure out what what makes sense in each one of those scenarios. Then what are you doing with these lots that are otherwise just sitting vacant that you own or someone lives next to it? Some maintenance being done to make sure there's invasive species being taken care of and stuff like that. Actually, we um are doing a lot of tree planting this coming summer. Okay. And then natural resource stuff does do all the like invasive species stuff. Yeah. Um but you're going to see tree planting on several of the parcels that we've already acquired in the piece next to Good and Park. They've already planted over 60 trees in previous years. Um, and I think we've got some inquiries or conversations starting to happen or will be happening with the city as well or Marty, maybe they've already happened to see if we could help with some tree work at LC Stevens along the regional trail corridor. We haven't really discussed that yet. Yeah, we've been trying to figure out how we can be a partner since um the city rejected the bids on on the tree work and that's something that we could be and that would be part of the master plan that we're going to pull together. We want to put the trees in the right place. Yeah. So, we the trail is already built through Alcy Stevens and Coke Park. we have some opportunity to do some trail or some tree planting along trail corridors and if it works out that's an opportunity that we can do some investments and hopefully help you guys out because we know that that was something that you had flagged you wanted to do but we're not sure the timing is going to pan out perfect okay this was really good I I don't feel like we have all the answers though that we're not I don't think you're going to get No, just for the record, I'm okay at this point for the two current people who have requested. I would be okay saying yes to those um at this point and a hold on the rest until we finish this plan. But that's just my again I'm one of five. Are there questions the council, the other four council has before having a consensus of whether or not agreeing to the sale for those two parcels or questions that you'd like that would help you make a decision? I'm speaking for myself, but I'm a no until we have more detail on this. Yeah, I think that's where I'm at. On the trail alignment, correct? Or trail alignment options for the two properties that are there. Yes, I would urge you to call until we have some some preliminary discussions. I don't I don't know that I'm okay. Scott and stuck in with it. Can you put a timeline on that question mark? Cuz just saying until I'm not trying to beat you up, D until we figure this out doesn't really give anybody any indication of how long that is. Like I like a hard deadline of blind to kind of put it in the box. I like I like I think when we meet again and discuss we could we could answer that question then. So in two weeks or four weeks whenever we can get together. Okay. So part of it is it just a question of finding a time to meet or are you going to have questions that you would like answers to? I will probably have questions. Okay. So not right. Yeah. Now unless you three are there then you know hey how much time do you need to formulate questions? So I mean from our perspective are we planning for a workshop in a month from now or two months from now? I don't think two months. Yeah. I feel like that's too long to make these land owners sit on that for us to decide what we're doing have that session and then there like you know what I mean? There's so much more that has to happen. And I feel like that's too long. Is a week reasonable to come up with questions? A week to give you questions or a week to have give you questions and have you come back with them? Um, it depends on the depth of the question you have. So I would say a week to come up with questions for I'm trying. Where are you with the two? I don't really have a problem with it. My my pro my whole problem comes back with if we work here, I want to work in other areas and we're going to be needing two roundabouts over on Fernbrook Lane. Not today, but yesterday realistically and right now there's a line in the sand and you are not getting one in one inch of parkland to do it. We worked with you on the roundabout at Pine View. I understand that part. Why would we not do the same? Because when the when what's there now was put in. That's the question that was given. Yep. You're not getting any of it. Um were you? So that was a long long I knew was only a few years ago, right? So things have changed. Let's keep an open mind. Let's figure out how to work together. No problem with it. Why are you in a heart? Because I don't think we really in one hand I don't think we really get to say what people do with their land. In one hand like you own it, it's yours. If your plan is to sell it because you can't or you don't want to take care of you can't take whatever it is like you kind of have the right to sell it and you have the right to sell whoever you want to sell it to. And I can respect the fact of wanting it to be something more than just someone else living in it. Maybe you do really value the parks and the trails and like that's important to you. And I don't know who we are to stand in between that. On the flip side of that, I don't know that my vision or any of our vision is the far one where you own everything. So like again this is me just talking out loud but is there a way to limit the amount the percentage the parcels the number something of how total parcels that the rivers can I think that's where we would get to that's where we're going to immediate question is those two and and to be honest I think what he's saying is the land is unsellable. I hear you and I get that. I I I think it'd be okay. I know nothing about that property. I don't know what happened. I don't know that it's unsellable, but he'd have to do a lot of repairs to make him make out the code. That that is this anyway. So, this one I don't think this person is here today. Facebook previously. Okay. Oh, that's right. They were at the busy and they um that's Oh, was that the mother-in-law? Yeah, someone died. Someone passed away. That's a situational problem. This is got structural. That's structural. I I don't know that it matters to you why you're selling. We can't really say yes to one another. Correct. I I cuz I'm just saying like again who are we to tell you what you can and can't do but like moving forward my thought would be to talk more about how we limit would it be fair to say I'm going to speed this up because I'm willing to sell them too and I'm willing to and you won't get another one until we talk about but see we said that last time we did that part of the thing too right if it was crazy agent and we're not we're not talking to any this Hell yeah. Okay. Correct. I'm not talking to anybody else and we don't outreach to your residents. No. No. I don't think you do. Okay. Done. Yeah. You got three votes. You got three votes. You got your All right. So, those two, Tom, you're in. But is this an official city council meeting? No, we'll have to come back. I'll know. Council give direction. You can't make a decision. Yes. Right. That's the direction we're giving. It's basically given our word that we'll we'll be okay with it. Yes. And then this gives us time to noodle on the rest of it to come to questions. This is what we want to know. Are there parcels? And I think it is I these maps are very helpful for me to see where your deal breakers are, but also to see where even in your perfect world, you don't go off the road very far. So then Yeah. Don't parals that they'd like keeping them. Yeah, that's right. Yes. And that so it was helpful for me to see both extremes and then together we can come to a middle territory. Yep. We'll leave both these. We'll leave all the trace if it's helpful. I think it is. Yep. Yeah, it is. And that they'll just tell a story where we're not tied to any of those stories. I think it is helpful if you're there to tell people this is just an a line on the map and it's on the road right now. Well, they've just me this is just for us. No, I mean I'm talking to next week. Yeah, but she's saying they don't want they don't want it next week. We don't want to do that. That makes me that makes me feel like there's something something else coming something you're not telling me. Nope. I just want you don't want to have one option and not more than one. That's where you get the confusion of it was this, is it that, I saw this, there was another unless we're bringing out all of those and you like every five minutes and I love you people. I guess if you are asking your community members to be engaged and have an opinion and then if you really like but then you should use their opinion and what they share their feedback in your decision- making right and I'm not sure what I'm what I'm telling them if I share this or what I'm asking them about what you're telling them is you're going to build along the road for that half mile so that would require I think very clear decision making or direction from the council which I don't know if I have that that saying you're doing this that would come and I guess I'm not here like I can't tell you how to run your meetings or what's allowed or not. Well, as far as I'm concerned, you can have those two parcels and that's the end of it and you build that. Can I ask a question? Sorry, this is going off what you said. How do you So, let's say you come to the open house, you put this map up like Scott's saying, and you say, "This is what the tenative plan is." People walk by, they say, "Looks great. Sounds good." And then they walk away. How are you gathing that feedback then? Right? Like you're getting feedback from people that are talking to you and saying, "Oh, I like your map. This looks really nice. I like this trail." And then you come back to us and say, "Oh, yeah. Everybody loves it." And then we beat you up again and we say, "Oh, well, we don't like this, this, and this." Like, that's not a really great feedback loop. I guess it's like I'm trying to like I'm agreeing with you. I think like it's not a great feedback loop for you or for us because there really isn't Yeah, there really isn't any formal way of knowing what the feedback So there's um I'm sorry there's a spectrum of engagement and part of it is just telling your residents this is what we're doing. So if if the council has decided well we're not we're not doing and our board has decided this is what we're doing because it's our money. So our board would still has a little stake in the game. This is what we're doing. Then we could go to the open house next week and say this is what we're doing. But we're not there. Um, I think at least based on what I thought I had heard at previous discussions is that you are interested in what your broader community is interested or what they would like as well as each one of these residents and you want to know who who might be interested in selling an easement or other or or what their concerns are. And so then you're having a conversation and you're learning and we're bringing that feedback back. Um could one thing be not the maps but listing of possible like are you interested in a bike trail? Are you interested in fishing? Are you interested in kayak? Are there are there key features that it would be worth asking our res? I think we can do that. I just don't know if we need to rush to do it at your open house next week and I would rather make sure that we're doing it right and getting it right the first time. Um, so the council has kind of made the commitment every couple years we're going to do a community opinion survey and that could be a section of the next one. When's that next one, Joe? Uh, 2026. We we may have one. Yeah. Sooner. sooner. There's been a couple issues that I think would be beneficial, but we'll see. And by Tuesday the 13th, the council will provide questions for staff to do research on. Thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate everyone's time and your your thoughtful comments and discussion, including yours. Is there an aster to that one? the uh the the bark is not as bad as thank you. Thank you so much. You want to stay on here for the part or All right, resume your seats. All right. Oh, yeah. We're not done. You want this rolled up? That was lively. Yeah, these maps are cool. kind of geeking out. You should be dead. I know. Yeah, it's super fun. I stood up too long. I know. That's why I eventually sat down. I was I was going to propose that we all sit down for the discussion, but everyone kept standing and I just I just slowly start. See, I feel like we're going to sing after we do the pledge cuz the Lions meetings, we sing a song after the pledge. So, I'm always like sit down here. Maybe that'd be a good thing to add to our procedures, though. to sing. Give Marty a minute to clear the house. Definitely helpful to have them have res. So yeah, it was nice cuz like I got Thank you, Marty. We don't get that feedback that they make the decisions on. So it's like we'll go back to the regular meeting here. uh Lisa Steven master plan steering committee park commission representative. So I'm looking for somebody to sit on uh steering committee for the park um redesign that we're doing at LC Stevens working with MSA. We're going to have um uh a council member on there. I'm not sure who that's going to be but we're going to have one member from each commission, two staff members. Um I think that's that's it at the moment. How often EDA also that's why I said I know you put out the date as a commission but yeah um I thought I put something in the packet about there it was in an email. Yeah it was an I didn't put it in the packet. So there's I think it's a meeting on May 20th. I think it's a commitment of three meetings I believe. Yeah I got it right here. Three meetings 2025. Yes please. Yeah. So meeting in midmay as an ideas meeting to discuss the various committee members visions for the park. Second meeting in July/ August for concept development and then a master plan review in October. [Music] But then you think that the the midmay is already set. Um they they're trying to do May 20th if they can. How long are the meetings? Hour, three hours? There is there is no deal. It takes I think the first one's the longest one. Yeah. I don't have a time frame for the meetings. It depends what's on there and what's the discussion, you know. Was it any member of the parks commissioner want to volunteer for these three meetings? In endurance, in Brad's absence, he said he could do it. If nobody else wants to do it, I'd also be interested if no one else is. It's up to Sounds like you're interested and Brad is just willing. That's why I'm hearing that. But Brad's not here. If no one else is jumping at the What is what's the phrase? Chomping at the bit. Thank you. Yeah, I was going to say I I am interested in it, but my term's up in July and I've turned it in. still respect your opinion, but I wouldn't be there if I don't get all I was kind of in the same boat like but it doesn't mean that right appointed and so I just don't want to something you may not be able to see through. You're not in control of that. I was in the same boat. Can we have a first and a second? Can we have two people join and I or just prefer one? Just prefer one because then they're committed to it. I don't think you know you want to keep the consistency going with understandable but and this person obviously would represent everyone on the commission and so during our meetings they can share what's been discussed gather feedback and then yeah okay I think that yeah it will be inclusive of everybody and then there's going to be uh there's a steering committee and then a community committee um there's going to be some general uh people from business and various other things and neighborhoods. Um, and maybe Magnus Foundation, that kind of thing. We're going to reach out to Lions. Lions. The Lions Club would probably be interested. Yeah, I did. I mean, sell beer there. All right. So, our volunteers Ka. Yep. Ka. Sorry. It's okay. Okay. All right. Does that have to be voted on or anything here? Well, you should vote. All in favor of Ka volunteering to be a part of the Elise Stevens master plan steering committee and say I I have to abstain. Okay. All right. Motion passes. Okay. Next park commission meeting Tuesday, June 3rd. Cool. Cool. Great. Fantastic. Nonstop fun. May 20th is will you send me something? Okay, cool. Yeah, they don't have a time yet or nothing. So, okay. Before we adjourn, can I get an idea who's going to be there next week on the 14th? I know you're going to I'm planning to be there as wear two hats or parks. Okay. Is my plan. I'll be there. Um, yeah, I'll let this finish. Really? The one night I can't. So, I have a work thing that I Okay. John, you need some commitment. Come on. I will be there as well. We have a a conference once a year and it just so happens to go into the night that one night. Fantastic. Anybody else have anything before? Yes. Uh Leather's Park saw some action yesterday or the day before. Um do you know if they seated? They haven't seated. Okay. I didn't I think so, but I don't know what that looks like, I guess. So, so they worked the ground over. I think they sprayed some stuff on there. Um, some herbicide. Okay. They're going to leave that on there for 2 weeks. See what happens there. Um, hopefully the crab grasses back. Um, if they need to redo it, they'll put something else on there. Um, and then they'll seed it after that, 10 days after the second application. So, hopefully by the end of May, we should have seed in the ground there. Cool. And the signs are out as well. Yes, I saw that. I appreciate that. Um hopefully the couple of neighbors who cut through there in their four-wheelers will know that it's not just a open lot anymore. Um and I wanted to add I I discovered a park I didn't know about driving uh home from Maple Grove on like Holly Lane down by King Solution. There's like a little parkland that must been dedicated as part of the industrial. It's just like a trail through the woods. Trail around the stone pond there. That was just cool. Another park. That's all I had. Thanks. Well, thank you. Cleanup day was great. Get rid of stuff. You're welcome. Anybody else? Anything? All right. I will call a motion to adjourn the meeting. I will second. Fantastic. All in favor say I. I. I. Meeting adjourned.