for e e call to order Tuesday February 11th meeting State Dayton city council stand for the pledge to the flag of the United States America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right need a motion in a second for the agenda I'll make if we want to pull something out of the consent agenda does that happen now no not yet in a second after the second I need a second I'll second yeah now now we can I would like to pull f of the consent agenda okay let's make f um you want to go right after the consent agenda mayor yeah we could do that okay ah because I definitely had questions about F but um okay we can do it afterward and then we're going to remove item H and item H is gone right yep item H needs to be um removed your table till the next council meeting please and thank you okay so anybody have any adjustments other than moving item F to a separate outside the consent and removal of i h okay all those in favor say I I all do oppos say no motion carries 5 to zero um consent agenda need a motion in a second I'll make a motion to approve second okay discussion nothing I have a question couple of these already answered so um Marty do we change our own oil on a lot of vehicles at Public Works yes we do okay cuz it seemed like we uh bought a lot of oil yeah that that's probably going to be an annual oil for us and there's a lot for the police department as well cuz we changed theirs as well I don't know if you were hedging or something about oil prices we need to know noet yeah okay thank you um and also um on page 12 um Chief Anga there was a charge for $66,872 to emergency Auto Tech is that equipment or is that a repair equipment equipment yeah it was equipment for one of the new squads new squads yep okay perfect thank you that's all I had anybody else have anything okay we got motion second all those in favor say I I all those opposed say no consent is passed 5 to Zer item f um Municipal state aid funds start sure why is South Diamond Lake Road on there I mean I live on that road I drive that road every day and I would never in a million years have pegged it for name to be repaved mayor calls love Jason quizur city engineer identified identified on the payment management plan for an overlay okay I'm just yeah the plan is in process right now in fact we just got State eight approval on the plant okay there's a lot of alligator on Kraken which what did we do to it back in 200 eight n it was a complete yeah that was before my time there I think it was a full depth Reclamation which means they ground up all of the pavement I don't know if that was all of it or just a portion of it um certainly the piece in front of my place yeah it was just it was just a portion of it just uh from the swamp area down to around Zan the public Workshop there I believe that's where and they put some of that concrete under the the pavement there as part of reclamation there was a the full reconstruction I believe out here in [Music] 87 see that was done as part of the the serum water utility they replace the road when they put the pipes in is this plan uh Mill and overlay this time around y so um my question was looks like we're going to pull in MSA funds for out years too yeah this that's what this action is is to approve or formally request the advancement of future year allotments so I thought when we went through that plan we didn't count on oute money and we were still going to meet the plan yes we weren't even going to use State a on sou Diamond until there was an adjustment and Zach can probably fill this in better than I can but an adjustment in the levy so it was to relieve burden on the levy because of the fiscal disparities that's my understanding of it so to to make up that Levy draw necessary for the pavement plan it is state aid eligible so it's a state a eligible route so we're pulling those those funds to cover that Gap mayor mayor council yeah so that's part of it is that we were able to use that I'm goingon to say the $573,000 of additional dollars that we have for this year's balance to be able to F fill that Levy need and GAP and after reviewing the MSA dollar we said why wouldn't we use MSA dollar now for them in in the or future allocations early and then free up essentially of payment management dollars for whether to do additional project or do additional item later on instead of utilizing our dollars first why wouldn't we use the State dollars first that also helps us with gaining additional dollars if communities aren't going to get theirs um there isn't also another MSA project that's scheduled till 2028 or 2029 at get the earliest we can have that and again we can not Advance dollars it's just what's going to happen is we're going to end up with a large balance of MSA dollars that we're not going to be able to have and then we're going to end up with and we'll use the city like din that has a large balance they say you don't need any more MSA dollars you're good that's that was my concern is that somehow we would lose eventually yeah cuz this MSA MSA dollar can only be spent on MSA roads and the only road we have that's eligible for MSA dollars at the moment would be this one in territory my only concern is is that it now looks like we're flush with pavement money and really we're not because now we're going to borrow against that MSA MH um just like we do with pine VI now Pine View I mean there's a difference here and that to me this job needs to be done um might argue that Pine was fluff sure but um yeah I just I just don't want us to think now that we have all kinds of of payment money sitting around you know so look for things to to spend it on yeah the idea is again G a larger balance so that we're able to do more do those projects um part of the item that Council wanted to do is make a pqi or that pavement Quality Index to be higher than um what it is currently I think it was 70% yep 70% that we wanted to meet um and so that will help us with accomplishing that and maybe even sooner than what we thought and we can try to mitigate earlier than pulls us pulls us negative for three years yeah it's three years I believe three and a half years that 28 once we get to 2028 then again we'll be in the positive just being in the negative doesn't mean it's a bad thing it just means that we're essentially saying we're going to borrow the money that we're know we're going to get in the future and then you know sometimes it does help us in the fact that we get additional dollars from other communities that have a flush balance of MSA dollars it's kind of a counterintuitive thing and I think whereas what we did last time was we didn't have the money to do the project so we pulled it in and that to me was playing with fire but yeah okay my simple request was trying to use somebody else's money similar to Grant versus our own if I could just make two more comments that might help on it this action is just to formally request the advancement of funds it does not commit you to using so there's still opportunity to say you don't want them because it's a reimbursement program so as we get into the project we can just draw it's called encumber uh the funds as we feel necessary to make the project viable for the city so there's there's no commitment on this site however we can only draw as much as we ask for today that's our cap if you will okay um the other thing I was was going to mention is uh albeit it's not a a huge influence on it but any balance in your account actually lowers your allotment for the future year because if you're seen to have money it it reduces your needs if you will so having a lower balance is actually a benefit for the allotments in fact there's penalties that incur if your balance gets too high to incentivize that low balance so maintaining the low balance will actually gain us some additional funds next year you it lose it right well you don't lose it but you get less so yeah I'm going to say it's almost yeah less than any other uh comments about F no thank you for clarifying that that was helpful okay motion to approve item F yeah oh yeah I skip that part I need a motion I'll make a motion I'll second it okay any more comments all those in fav favor say I I I all those opposed say no F carries 5 to zero and now we are on to open Forum limited to 3 minutes for non-agenda items state your name and address no counil action will be taken items will be referred back to staff anybody here for open Forum forward good evening Council and staff 40 11821 Stone Ridge Road I'd like to um address the city council and staff to consider changes to some of the city ordinance involving outdoor RV storage uh specifically our2 Lots 990,000 ft 2 plus acres which is my neighborhood um I brought parking code violations of several of my neighbors to the city in September 2022 I am currently working with my fifth City staff member to get the parking ordinance enforced uh the city did send out letters to some non-compliant residents and a few have corrected their infractions the majority have not uh the ordinance you have in front of you 13.05 States Equipment or Motor Vehicles which are inoperable not currently licensed or generally is not being driven uh D items which are not generally or normally used on the particular premises H accumulations of any items that tend to cause an unsightly appearance of the premises and which cause discomfort for any other members of the public who may be using their own or public property this ordinance was deemed unenforceable by Zack Dow the current city administrator it's been in effect for decades we need to determine if in fact this ordinance is one unenforceable two can be amended to where the city thinks it is forceable or three strike the whole ordinance from the books uh let's move on to ordinance 1000 1.19 parking Provisions in residential districts uh subdivision 3 section B parking setbacks uh number one front yard off street parking shall not be located in required front yards unless located on a designated driveway leading directly into a garage or one surfaced space located on the side of the driveway adjacent to the dwelling meeting the required setback uh the extra space shall be surfaced as required in sub section 1000 1-14 which basically says an impervious surface concrete or binus um let me just boil it all down here my neighbors and I don't like to look at RVs which I'll call toys stored in grassy areas of lots uh making muddy ruts uh detracting from the neighborhood and we don't like to look at driveways full of RVs the public nuisance ordinance talks about unsightly appearance and causing discomfort uh my home and my neighbor's home value is being affected I believe um I also saw something in another ordinance language that talks about visual pollution can we look at having RVs stored behind the house garage or accessory building and require screening to block the view from the street the council recently approved an interim use permit or maybe it was a cup for a home business and that required 6 foot opaque fence made of wood or vinyl for improved screening for adjacent residential uses the parking ordinance already requires screening of parking facilities for multifamily dwellings and screenings for non-residential uses in residential districts can we look at screening requirements for RV storage I really don't care if RVs are stored on an unimproved surface as long as they're out of sight I don't care how many RVs people want to own I just don't want want to look at them as I drive to my house hiding in the rear yard facing or with fencing so they're behind fencing uh starts to make the uniforms look uniform ordinances are like an HOA for the city setting standards for how neighborhoods should look if you build a home in Dayton you're required to meet standards you have to be so many feet back from the street the sidey you can't have a five-story house your Roofing and sighting materials have to meet standards these are standards so neighborhoods look uniform and pleasing finally can we resolve the ordinance Enforcement issue the enforcement mechanism is broken in the city of Dayton I'd like to read ordinance 10.98 administrative enforcement of city code a the purpose of this chapter of the city code is to establish a procedure for administrative enforcement of violators of the city code C administrative citation number one individuals authorized to enforce city code the following indiv individuals have May issue administrative citations on behalf of the city a any any officer of the Dayton Police Department B fire chief C Fire Marshall D Public Works supervisor e City administrator F any other emplo employee or agent of the city designated and writing by the city administrator I've tried to get enforcement of the parking ordinance for almost two and a half years can I get an assurance from the city council and staff that this matter will be addressed in a timely fashion going to have to wrap it up here pry soon that's it okay comments or questions will be referred back to staff thank you thank you anybody else here for open form anybody online um so if you wanted to speak in open form if you can use the raise your hand function I'm not seeing any okay we will close open Forum staff consultant Cil sa evening mayor Cil I don't have any updates for you tonight thank you very much any I do not have any updates as well all right I have a couple uh the well for Rehab is on pause with this cold weather um can't we can't be pumping grout at this time of year so uh they're hoping to be back on site next Wednesday saying then the the temp seem to be more amen amenable and what was what was remaining there they we going to pull the sand out we there's still there's still sand in there we're going to use that as a base and to pressure the grout back up into the crack so it's it's pressurized grouting that we're doing so the sand is forming the base for that and then once that's done we'll drill the well out again and then suck all the sand back out okay um Parks uh well work for the ation is uh set to begin on Thursday and Friday this week um the RP interviews with the uh Parks Commission went well they recommended two uh candidates uh for Council consideration at the next council meeting uh the next council meeting you'll be seeing uh bid documents for the park improvements from 2024 um we had a kickoff meeting with the DNR to discuss uh the project at their historic village boat landing um just to see what uh C uh what the requirements were for the DNR what they were expecting out of the project and confirmed that they're paying for the whole project and that that is still the case do do we have any plan from them yet about what they're doing uh we are developing the plans for them and doing the and doing the build for them uh we're working in coordination with those guys they just don't have the staff or resources to manage the project yeah I get that but did they have some overall goals School uh that's that's what we're working through at the moment it's going to be based on um a lot of survey work um and the relocation we're doing um was it a bomet um study to look at the under under uh below of surface uh topography and so that'll Define where we can put it what happens to the silt and all that kind of stuff okay good evening mayor members of council um I have an update on engine 11 that we um have provided to the city of Ukraine um I've been notified that it has arrived and then have a short video uh showing some of that that was sent to us [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] oh [Applause] [Music] so the city in Ukraine that it was delivered to if I can pronounce it correctly is bazik Baza Village so they're greatly appreciative I thought it was helpful to share this with the council so thank you for uh assisting with that thanks thanks for doing that I you know it bothered me that we had that sitting there and uh no plan to use it so um it's great to see that it it went somewhere that somebody can make some use of it thank you evening mayor members of council just to let you know officers last week attended um officer involved shooting with Rogers um kind of a joint deal where they learn the protocol if they're involved in an officer involved shooting what occurs um from the time the shooting happens to the end of the deal um we'll try to incorporate that with whoever shows up for Council on July 16th so you um will go through the gamut that an officer goes through um when you're involved in an officer involved shooting nice holy CRA for the February 25th we're planning a work session with the Planning Commission to discuss the A3 District that's all Jason uh no update sir good I'm good good one thing I wanted to bring up for us to potentially look at here in the in the near future it comes up way too often about um notification of residents around uh changes or or zoning changes or things that require a public hearing we've got that 500 foot rule and I was surprised to hear that that the state only requires 350 fet um so it's our ordinance that dictates the 500 ft and it seems like we miss people almost every time and it gets to be frustrating for residents so I'd like us to to change whatever ordinance that that is written in but so guess potentially future agenda item for us to review that ordinance another talked we have a couple things I think we need to somehow formalize it but we need to change the ordinance is what I I'm getting out of it yeah yeah I guess I was surprised to hear that too that it was ours I thought ours was the state statute but yeah we are we do larger than State Statute based on the fact that we have larger Lots typ that's why we have them larger but I think I think the answer and unfortunately it always happens is no matter what feat you pick you're going to you're going to miss the next person yes and the next person is going to you you know what it is though really is it's it's also the volume I mean where I'm at is 200 ft doesn't one property whereas you know in the developments 500 ft is a lot of properties so I don't know how you but we should talk about that so it's good we put that our notes it may be based on the zoning too right like an our like the notification doesn't have to be the same for all of the city so in the a in the a districts it might be larger than in the R1 right yeah yeah think it's the one time when that ordinance was pass I don't think we had any of those R3 districts that more of so I think it was just a generic 500 ft but yeah doesn't mean that's right or wrong correct that's all for me nothing for me okay we are on to uh presentation sherff qu put you here you can you want to go with the dice you want to control the thing you can otherwise I can run for you whatever you'd like on the arrows there right or left there you go y these chairs are better than the ones we have in our office you'll learn real quick about me as I am hilarious I don't do boring so just bear with me um just start whenever yeah okay have at well thank you mayor thank you chief for having me here tonight um danana Wht henen County Sheriff just wanted to take some time to talk to you about what the sheriff's office is doing let you know about our strategic plans and then also um leave time for questions if you have any questions um regarding our office and what and why we're doing the things that we're doing so we have our 2025 presentation here um during that presentation please feel free to stop me or ask me any questions at any time okay so uh just a brief overview of myself um elected in 22 took office in 2023 have about almost 25 years now in law enforcement I actually started my career off at hian County Sheriff's Office as a detention Deputy then spent 16 years at the dcota County Sheriff's Office coming back to hpen in 2019 and lo and behold running for Sheriff which was not a part of my plan just so you know um but PRI prior to that I was a nonprofit I my original degree is chemical dependency family therapy and I worked with families that had was dealing with those challenges so I wasn't a person who who knew that I would always come into this field it just kind of found me um my mother grandmother wife even though they never see me anymore so I but I still sure that they're there for me and so with that being said um you know I grew up in henen County I'm from South Minneapolis uh it just felt right for me to run for this office to do the job that I'm doing as that is the community that I grew up in and um no doubt that I'm the right person right now for this job uh you know instead of talking about everything that's on there yes I am still also an Adjunct professor you know I do really believe in uh making sure that I am a part of our our new people that are coming in and Mak sure I do my part to to educate um but just a vast career what you don't see on there is like during all of these times as with hennipin Dakota also have seven and a half years parttime with Ramy County so I have the trifect of all the county jobs but also working this year be 20 years as a state fair police officer working part-time as a Transit Police off officer and the UFM pce um Police Department as well so currently at the henpen County Sheriff's Office you know we're about we have about 83 fulltime staff but we are not unlike a lot of other agencies where we are um facing shortages and that's in every that's from our civilians to our sworn staff no we're not having the numbers that Minneapolis has not even close but when you think about about the uh statutory requirements of the sheriff when you think about countywide jurisdiction it uh the numbers that we have are um are impa in the work that we do I am happy to say though we've had some recently had some um success with recruiting if I would have gave this presentation about a month and a half ago I would have told you that we were down about 3035 licensed deputies as of today we're down about 17 licensed deputies but one of the statutory mandates also of the sheriff's office is the jail which is where um as we've public seen in public there's been a lot of issues there with Staffing but um 6 weeks ago I would have told you we were down 40 right now I'm down 24 so there's been a lot of um work going into recruitment but we also know that there's also okay once you get people there there has to be a retention um part of that since taking office you know uh the Hanahan County Sheriff's office has typically had five bureaus we now have six um and this the reason we have six is because we had at the we added the public affairs Bureau something that's important to me not just because of this job it's just something that's ingrained in me is making sure that we have a team that is consistently out there building relationships in the community they're not a part of uh um like our deputies that are taking calls um you know people often ask what can we do different how can we make sure we're better prepared well we start that by not acting in a reactive way but being proactive and making sure that when there's trouble because there will be that you already have those relationships built and it's the community that are the allies of the agencies it's when communities know who their um their First Responders are they speak for that agency so that was something important to me to add that Bureau I also had to separate um when I was the major I was the major before the sheriff um and as the major I had the biggest bureau because it Encompass courts which are Seven Courts houses in hban County as well as the jail that was a lot of work for one person so since becoming Sheriff what I did is I I dissected that and now we have a major that oversees just the jail because that is a beast all in itself there are so many issues that come along with the gel and not to mention that we have the largest most populated gel in the state and then knowing uh since 2020 and um everything that's happened then some of the things that have increased are like our civil services which is also a mandatory stat a statutory Mandate of the sheriff so taking our civil out of Patrol so Patrol can focus on patrol functions and adding that with um our transport unit our Hospital extradition so it's there's been a lot of working and moving people around and moving uh our sections around which I believe that stuff was sent out today to various agencies so that they would know that but it's based off of the needs of what we're seeing um in our communities and also make making sure that I uphold that statutory Mandate of the sheriff to hold peace within the county not just the City of Minneapolis but the county as a whole so you know of course we have our investigations units which includes like things like vtif and our Major Crimes also our administrative Services which is our Professional Standards training and then excuse me our um Public Safety which is dispatch and and um patrol but when we take all of those things and I say that we're responding to what what we're seeing as the needs of the community um we got to talk about the challenges that we're facing as far as the profession of of law enforcement you know as I mentioned before teaching um I'm still an adjunct teacher um I could tell you two years ago I had classes that were singled digigit numbers this semester I have 22 students last semester I had 30 so me personally and then talking to my colleagues in the um professional field we are seeing a rebound it's not fast enough for what we know our shortages are throughout the state but I I feel optimistic because I'm seeing a rebound just on that personal note in in that aspect but then when we um talking about having enough officers law enforcement in the communities again going back to where I said we have to put ourselves in positions to be proactive and not reactive and that's why it's important for all of us not just the Sheriff's Office all of our agencies to make sure that we have the right amount of people and the right people to do that job so that we are consistently building those relationships you know um I fully recognize that you know as soon as you lose those Community those Community connections and you lose residence trust it's so much harder getting it back so why lose it in the first place so putting that focus on the front end is again very important to me you know I also recognize that some people say we're rebuilding police trust and we also got to recognize in some neighborhoods that never existed before we recognize that one person uh screws up no matter what agency it affects all of us so we're in this together and so that's how I see it as a collaborative effort and making sure we're looking out for each other it doesn't matter how big how small an agency a city a Township is we're in this together um the other thing is uh talk about is the um strategic priorities and I believe those packets were given to you all right but um okay uh the violent crime reduction you know I've been many times it's like okay you keep saying your short staff how is it that you started an auto theft team I don't know if anybody knows but henen county has auto theft problem in case you didn't hear news flash right that's the true thing but um okay part of it is me being competitive with uh Sheriff Fletcher yes he touts the the um the stats that they're having but it was just the right thing to do when I talked about our numbers of increasing one of the things that Sur surprised me I shouldn't say well yeah it did surprise me is that the number of people uh uh seasoned investigators that came from other agencies um to help with this problem the common theme there was they like the fact that we're doing something about what's going on out there and and the fact that the leadership that they're seeing and so that helped attract people to start those those new um um I guess you can say departments if you will like for our adult theft team where it's all seasoned investigators are just something that we needed because that's other thing we got to think about is often times right now we're young and there's a lot of experience going out the door whether it's retirement or people that are just done with the profession in general but violent crime um was non-negotiable because everything that we do work live um visit everything goes around what is the crime like everybody's asking that question and is our job to make sure that people feel as safe as possible While most um we know that it's been said the most um violent crime decrease from 23 to 24 the fact of the matter is is we're still higher than prepandemic and so there's just not a time for us to take our foot off the gas and as we know while law enforcement has to play um by rules and boundaries criminals do not so we got to make sure that again that we are giving our uh people everything that they need to combat the people who are praying on the most vulnerable communities all communities um one of the things I would like to talk about to just shortly is in 2024 you know our our violent Defender task force our Southwest henpen drug task force as well as the West Metro um task force seized over 17 lounds of powder of fenel it opened over 1500 cases um and 256 of those made felony charges last year what I talked to people about was in the first 6 months confiscating enough fenel that could potentially kill every person in henen County we have a problem right and this is not a just a Minneapolis problem this is not a first ring Suburban problem uh it's it's all of our problems and so making sure again that we are having those collaborations working with our partners and doing everything that we can to comat people that are praying on our Minnesota nice basically um which brings me into the opioid over overdose prevention we recently started a I shouldn't say recently we started a program called focus on fentanyl um I will tell you that I have uh a student um Advisory Board which also consists of kids from the Rogers Dayton area as well it's um 10 through 12th graders all through henen County but so that Advisory Board and then the fent focus on fenel what initiated that is that a mom came to visit me who lost her 17-year-old son to fentol overdose she was upset because she felt like that she wasn't getting help from First Responders from the police department um um elected officials if you will she said all everybody sees her son as a drug addict when in fact Seth was an athlete who had an injury that accidentally became addicted and uh and she lost her son and she was very frustrated just like nobody will listen all they think he is is an addict and so that's how we uh initi our focus on fenel um program which also brought me in contact with another mom who lost her 15-year-old who talked about how she may be the one who dropped who took her daughter to McDonald's to meet the dealer who her daughter met on Snapchat this mother um thought her daughter was going up to her room just to watch TV when she went to check on her daughter her daughter was going through an overdose um and she called 911 this mother who was asked by Dispatch if she had Naran did not know what Naran was so our focus on in uh fentol is not only about um enforcement but it's also about prevention and education it has to be that mother who will ever every day think that if I knew what that was could I possibly saved my 15-year-old and so it's again being answering to those Public Safety calls okay what part can I do and and education is a part of it because in fact we have a lot of kids that um I shouldn't say a lot that is speaking very general but think that they might be taking something such as like adderal or something like that and taking fentel so the whole opioid over overdose prevention again is not just about enforcement which we do and when we find dealers we submit charges for um for murder if somebody dies as we should that's I feel very strongly about that but making sure we're doing our part because we understand we're law enforcement but our jobs are actually Public Safety right it's law enforcement is just one of the actions that we do um and then when we talk about programing so henpen County jail again being the largest jail most populated jail in the state just cuz you guys cough now I feel like I got it I said it's all about collaborations people no um so 80% of the people that goes to the henpen county jail which is a pre-trial facility do go back into the communities and that's before the term revolving door became a popular term it's a pre-trial facility um and so it's like while I have their attention while they're there away from whatever stressors or addictions or whatever they have that is one of the best places that you can provide programming and so we have our program called hope helping others by providing education we do offer um people the opportunity to get geds diplomas um job Readiness skills and things like that to me it is very important that jail time is not just dead time how do we stimulate people's mind and also we know that there's studies out there that says the more programming you have in a facility the less likely you are to have inmate to inmate fights or inmate on staff fights so so that is something that we are very adamant about and um there's also now three or four Sheriff's offices within Minnesota that have joined that hope program which they call ignite because we're in Hanahan County in Minneapolis I said ignite would not be the best term for us to use kind of smart sometimes and so we did not do that um and then again I already talked about the Ido theft you know being initiative and that was we have a huge problem with utle theft a lot of it's related to juveniles and making sure that we do what we can do not only to prevent because we don't know we can't be everywhere where these cars are being stolen but the impact that it puts on a family for the amount of time their car is gone or then it goes to the impound lot um we do pretty much process almost all of our cars if there's something that we should which is not something that every um agency does um and depending on how those cases are prosecuted will determine if we continue to do that because it's very timec consuming as you know we do have our own crime lab for hennipen County and then again um the Strategic priorities around Recruitment and Retention it's one thing to get people there but it's another to keep them uh today in fact spending time at the capital speaking with multi multiple legislators about incent some what they can bring to the profession or what can be offered to the profession to keep people here it's not just a job it's a career and so making sure that I'm understanding I am not a politic but apparently I got a politic right and and speaking for the profession and not just thinking about just now but who are the people that come behind us Recruitment and Retention um is hand in hand and it should actually say hiring Recruitment and Retention um and then the community out as I spoke to before I don't like to be um reactive I like to be proactive because it's when things go bad not if that you have to be prepared for when that happens and that means being um in front of things and building those relationships and not asking people for forgiveness or to understand after whatever bad thing happens so the next slide I think is about activity that we've had in Dayton for 2024 so um those are listed right up there if there's any questions on that we'll just leave that one up there Tim and um that's all I had to present but I do again want to leave myself open from for any questions in regards to the Sheriff's office because I understand that I might not have hit a question that somebody may have thank you anybody have any thank you um I appreciate that you mentioned that you're not the sheriff of Minneapolis and uh you know just encourage you to being out here on the fringes of Hanah in county that uh that were not forgotten you know I will tell you um again having that trifacta the Ramy County experience the 16 years with Dakota County um I think in a lot of ways Dakota County has prepared me for this job because knowing again the importance of those relationships no matter how big or small a city is is very important and and and they prepared me for that and that's something I extend so you have me as your partner whether you want me or not well thanks thank you for your attention yeah thank you coun can you talk a little bit about the facial recognition software and the and how you still protect individual rights like how you're using that data how you're storing that data um to make sure it isn't misused right so you know um people could not believe that I wanted to take an offensive approach on uh putting out facial recognition because we are one a few agencies that do use it um the way that we utilize it is it's a tool so when we're talking about storing information we don't technically store it it's that those facial recognitions are pulled from public databases that are already exist um and again it is a tool to help uh um put detectives in the direction of where they should or should not be looking that is not the this is automatic and this is this person there's still investigative work that has to be done on that tool um it is something again that we've we've we've actually received um praise for because we put out our policy it is a good model to have um and if I could like just tell you like the number of cases that it has affected or as we're talking about Staffing shortages the amount of time it would take people to know which direction to take without that is is is it's it's very time consuming um it's my understanding now that it's at the Mall of America too it's not they're use they would have to use the same public uh databases we use to derive that and again I think what's most important is you think of it as a tool it is not the bottom line that this is or this is not a person there's still work that has to be done on that thank you very much it lowers the workload I'm sorry it lowers the workload it does lower the workload yes thank you you're welcome thanks for coming okay thank you sweet okay thank you thank you for your time appreciate sherff from the council sure photo by the way I hate photos and I hate public speaking [Music] we're good are we on think get all in one two three great thank you all right thank you that' be great thank [Applause] you than again thank you okay we are on to item I scen yours John or who's [Applause] this um thank you real briefly the Eda is requesting a workshop with the council for Clos session to discuss the tax forit or properties uh so if the council's agreeable this would also be hold held on February 25th did you say it also in addition of the Planning Commission Workshop so what time would our meeting start 5:00 p.m. I don't know if we'll be able to do both I say I don't see how both can happen in an hour and a half mayor Cil the staff needs Direction on if the council would like to entertain a close session with the Eda related to the true tax forer properties we have in town one of which is the um down on Dayton Parkway um referred to as the triangle as everyone may or may not know and the other one is in the historic village um down I think it's Robinson Circle or Robinson Street Circle yes on E7 so the question is if we don't want to schedule a meeting if the council is like no we're not happening that's why the conversation is coming up well regarding the triangle do we have do we have numbers to work with because if we get in there and we don't have numbers to work with we're wasting our time what do you mean numbers to work with to make these decisions to decide whether you know we should go this route or that route we have information from a while ago we don't have current information based on the last time this based on the last time this was brought up which was about a year and some change ago they had looked at a marketing company or a real estate company and they were come out a scenarios numbers Etc yeah number one I don't want to talk numbers at all but yeah um there are the numbers are all over the board um and and I don't think I don't think until we get solid numbers I mean it doesn't even pay to go get the numbers if the council is not even going to entertain trying to do something yeah I think that's that's the well I don't know if that's the whole intent but certainly I think there needs to be alignment between the Eda and the Council on on how to move forward with any of those properties okay and uh you I don't think we've had that conversation as a group but wasn't their Direction given at the last Eda meeting to go and get updated numbers I received two phone calls from members of the Eda that that was their understanding was that we were receiving updated numbers or they had tasked a broker or someone to go and get some that would be us ordering an appraisal and that was not directed oh there's an apprais there was an appraisal done here probably a year year and a half it was a year and a half ago guess something like that based on those conversations that I had maybe that's where the disconnect is cuz the conversations that I had made led me to believe that they believed that that was being done and they were hoping to have those updated numbers before the 25th meeting or that was what two different members of the Eda said to me so I guess maybe we need to kind of close that that gap of if we're trying to get updated numbers if that's something that they're thinking that we are doing ahead of this meeting I I guess so this probably falls on Sky do you guys think there's enough information to even talk about this Well here here's how I'll I'll approach this to me we can't really approach it if all of a sudden first off uh Eda doesn't have enough funds to buy the thing and is Council in favor of doing a bridge loan if if the number work okay the other thing that's the other thing that comes to play is where is everybody going to be comfortable I mean I have a number in mind where I think the property needs to be purchased at in order to make anything work out see that's what I mean it sounds like there's really two two things that need to be decided there's been well there's been there's been Market numbers shared with Zach and there's been Eda attorney number numbers shared with Council those numbers are they different well they're different obviously and in my opinion both of them numbers are way out of line to where it even where it even makes sense to even do anything um the other piece is that it's that particular parcel is in the city's name and so the the Ed can't move on it so we would have to the council has to be involved in that approval well has to make that approval right and I don't think that the Eda can go and and try and negotiate a number unless Eda knows that council's in support of of even the whole idea yep no I get that so that almost sounds like it's it'd be a shorter meeting and and yeah I don't think it's going to be that that lengthy um the other thing is is everybody needs to understand if the property takes a year two years 5 years whatever it takes to sell if if something does happen I mean there's no guarantee there's a buyer in the next six months yep that's correct uh I feel I mean personally I mean I would think that if the council does borrow money in an in fund loan to me there should be a interest number labeled to that just because all of a sudden a year and a half from now if all of a sudden the city needs some extra money and we got to go bond for it it's going to cost us money because we don't have we don't have that borrowed money M so I I think that's part of the conversation also okay so yeah so what Staffing Direction on tonight is if there's a majority of the council that would like to have that conversation with the Eda that is what this request is of the staff today of stat the the other there's another thing there is I do believe that one person from Eda can't go and negotiate this number I think there needs to be a committee that two or three or four people that go and do that yeah but that kind of those kind of details can be hammered out I think that there's a couple bigger questions than that is to me we come up with a flat nine Flatline number that okay we're interested if it stays this or below yes if it's above that forget it I guess I'd be okay with a work session I'm okay with it yeah I don't know about timing yeah the Tim issue I don't want both I really feel like it's it's necessary that we have that discussion with the Eda so that we leave that meeting in alignment on how to move forward or not move forward we you work on time St will work on a timing yep are we good then yep all right do we need a motion in a second or is it just a direction it's a direction okay that was item I item J North Amon Lake Road Trail Crossing extension evening mayor and Council uh today we're looking at a trail extension um going across North Diamond Lake Road uh near river road so a while back even a year ago the Parks Commission identified some priority Trail segments um one of those identified was the connection that's shown on the screen essentially between the ion Gardens neighborhood and the Pine View Pine View Metals neighborhood as shown so how that fits into the trail map um this is an existing trail map shown by the solid lines the dash lines are planned Trails um throughout the city the red is what we're looking at here so it's the connection between those two existing systems and just the large red right Jason yeah the the wide red yes yeah um so just to note this does complete the entire connection between LC Stevens and Elm Creek Park the cross scenes being at at least controlled intersections so just a zoomed in view of that um the I own Gard Gardens neighborhood and then Vinewood which then eventually gets to um Pine View Meadows and I own Gardens um adjacent to cypr Cypress Co of River Hills Diamond view EST States and Riverwalk which has the underpass to LC Stevens Park so what we're looking at for improvements is a trail extended along the north side of Diamond Lake Road with the crossing taking place just west of and know it says Diamond View North North Diamond Lake Road on the um map but I'm going to call it Vinewood so that's the connection um often the mostly the bottom left or sorry bottom right corner so the crossing would be uh just west of that connection uh we have been in contact with Hanan County they are supportive of a crossing at this location um in all honesty quite to my surprise but they are supportive of us doing it given that there's a pedestrian Landing constructed in there which is a pretty significant Improvement but it's it's very much and I think I put a picture in the um staff report uh like the John quill Crossing on 129th Avenue it would be uh I'd say nearly identical to that um so it does include some Road widening to accommodate because it's an additional 10 ft of pavement and then you need the tapers for the traffic um so it's a pretty lengthy section of road that needs to be widened but it can be accomplished um through the area from from what we the information we have today so I did break this down into different categories if you will for costs and you'll see why on the the next slide um this was shared with the par Parks Commission as well so I'm I'm using the same information just so you're you're hearing the same information they did making a decision to move forward with the project um the trail Crossing I just call that the East West portion along the roadway as shown some so um basically the East West red line on there and then the crossing would be the cost associated with that uh The Pedestrian Landing in the middle and then the the the crosswalk enhancements that might be included with that and just to note we do have costum here for the Flasher flashing lights much like by Dayton Elementary um in the past such as John quill the county did not allow us to install that so um we did have $70,000 in there for that so just to note that it would be that's 70,000 of that 412,000 whether or not we can put it in we haven't determined yet can I ask why why the county was against it so to to call it a crosswalk it has to meet their crosswalk warrants which means you need a certain number of users to show up at the crossing over a given time span okay if it doesn't meet that warrant it's technically not a crosswalk and you don't sign it or put down striping okay thank you it's kind of a chicken and EG my so yeah um but so the the reason these are separated out and again this is the information shared with the with the Parks Commission so I think council's probably aware that there's a intersection Improvement plan for 2029 at this intersection uh we all suspect it to be a roundabout um at that which means it would be a controlled intersection which would accommodate pedestrian Crossings on on each of the legs so we did make the or or present the option of waiting with the project if you will and incorporating The Crossing into that project thinking that there might be a potential cost savings with that so what that would look like instead of doing the widening and the Crossing at Vinewood instead the trail would be extended towards River Road and then utilize the median that is just part of the roundabout anyway um as the crossing so it would be a longer Trail but an easier Crossing um of the road so that's why the costs were were broken down so the trail connection that remains unchanged so that's the 585,000 is our preliminary estimate the trail Crossing certainly goes down from the 400 and I forget what we had 400 and 412,000 down to 235 and just to note on that and I I left my mistakes in here so you could uh see the the difference between that I was I was thinking it was an 80/20 split with the county um if it was if the trail was to be built I actually think their cost share on a non-existing trail is 5050 I think that's so I I had that incorrect when I when I talked to the Parks Commission I thought of it as I was presenting it and then I verified um and added that after so the cost share changes a little bit so the trail clock Crossing at 235 estimated it'd be 5050 with the split with the city which is uh the total project of 820,000 and then the city's portion of that would be 702 I ran through that quick I have a summary of that though if you didn't quite follow that so the The Crossing in 2025 if we were to move forward at the project now we're estimated at 997 th000 if the project waits to 2029 and is done in conjunction with the county project we estimate the city's portion to be 72,000 so the question posed to the planning or sorry Parks Commission was is the additional I had said 365 I corrected myself and said it' be closer to 300 so the question is is $300,000 worth it to have the project in 2025 versus waiting until 2029 and we presented the options we could either either move forward at this time we could wait and coordinate in 2029 I did give a third option um not real popular just to construct the East West portion and not the crossing today so at least that portion of Trail is there for the the county project and then the crossing accomplished at a later date thought being is it could either be an out and back or you could walk to the end of the trail and then cross on your own if you will um there decision was that they thought it was worthwhile moving forward with the project in 2025 so they asked this be brought to council for consideration uh for a project this year um one thing that did come up and this was after the Parks Commission so this was uh a staff level I believe um the potential for an alternative connection which would save a whole lot of Trail so if we could extend the trail up between the homes and and just connect in it would be to a sidewalk not another Trail but it would at least be a a connection for pedestrians and and users to to go um a few notes on this we did look at it preliminarily um just based on readily available info and record plans from the development um we're not sure if it can be accomplished due to grades and storm water drainage but it's it looks close so we'll we will investigate see if this is even an option but maybe even more important certainly this would require easements from the two property owners and I don't know what the excitement will be for allowing to Trail outside of bedroom windows so um we will certainly talk to them the good part is there actually is a 10-ft wide or I'm sorry a 20 foot wide I believe easement through here because there's a water meain extension between the H is that that yellow line U no it's the dashed so I'm yeah just sorry I should have pointed this out just the roding of the trail through these homes so there is an existing water man under there so there is an easement but the easement is limited to drainage and utility purposes oh meaning we can't put a trail there without getting a second easement or a redefine easement over that area so good news is the space is there because it's there for the easement the bad news is we don't have rights to it at this time so it would take um the agreement or the willingness from the property owners as well we have not talked to at this time but figured this could all be if we're moving forward with the project we could open those discussions with the proper prop owners as well as collect field information of the area and and make sure we can even construct the trail safely through there but those would be included with seems like the conversation is free right the conversation would presumably free staff time suspect and do you think Three Rivers would have any interest here at all not part of their Regional Trail system so no um yeah they're they're limited on the other side of river so they are with that one but so just a recap the the pars commission did request Council consider this for 2025 if Council does wish to move forward we did include an engineering proposal for the work um and then just a note if you do want to move forward work would only be completed under task one which is the design you would not be committing full funds under that um under that agreement so effectively it would be authorizing the preparation of plans and specifications again we would look at the alternative route if it works out to go that way that's what would be designed otherwise we would go back with the original design so that's all I have can you go back to the second one where you wait till 2029 that one yep realistically no one's going to go up to the roundabout they're going to cut across I mean maybe if your mom is there with you but if you're a kid on a bike you're not going to go up to the roundabout you're going to cut AC cross part of the reasoning behind just do the trail and not the crossing yeah but would not promote it as a safe Crossing but it would be available for those that choose to do that my feeling is the same if I was looking at that and I need to be across the street am I going to go to the end I also not sure that Crossing at a roundabout is a safer way to get across never like that no one knows how to drive in a roundabout let alone you're focused on mer on this individual suddenly I and your GPS is telling you the second one and you're like wait is this the second one is this the third one where that where am I and then you're looping four times and you're not looking for that I no I've never found it that complicated I would like to see us move ahead with the previous version this shows the crossing um I think that it's worth having the conversation with those homeowners I I think we know how that'll come out but I think we should ask the question just to do our due diligence there because it certainly would reduce the amount of trail that needs to be built well we also don't know how those houses are laid out like if that's like you know depending on what's if it's your laundry room you know what I mean like if it's in a bedroom no I don't want a trail going next to it but if it's my laundry room maybe I don't care so much ites the garage side on one I mean the house to the east that's it kind of doesn't matter I can tell you that people don't like Trails by their houses like access to them they at least one lot yeah they they don't want it they're back here they want I don't care if a neighbor not M um the the we did we determine on the south side that there is not enough rway um it'd be really challenging yeah the grades are really tough through there U we have some pinch points on the north but it's it's more so trees U there's some challenges on it one of the Lots as you can see where we kind of jog down um I mean that's just showing schematic ically but it's um lack of property rights and then there's also some significant trees through there as well um again okay to get a better handle on this we need field information Collective but we can investigate the South but I mean even just based at preliminary looks the cost would be significantly higher and okay probably we would need additional land rates as well and the distance for that the Red Trail before The Pedestrian Landing roughly 700 ft um from from brickshire yeah I should know that and I don't I can measure it say it's got to be not far from that I mean that's that's that's sounds like you know to that end it could be you know if you're talking to those homeowners it it could be that we it may be it may save us a lot of money to convince them that they should provide that trail you you would be acquiring that yeah what I'm getting at though is then that saves us all that for sure that sign be significant and so if we can you know get some money in their pocket and save us some money yeah when I mean acquiring I mean it would be a purchase agreement to yeah that could be a negotiation of the and possibly like screening of some sort like if there's space to absolutely yeah right over Marty's water there there's there's a water man in there too so can't like crazy but again and reason I did measure it's about 1500 ft oh okay 1500 or 1,500 oh, 1500 okay so okay that's farther according to H count G mhm uh if we were to so the difference in what you're asking um as far as design work goes um the 100K or so what do you see changing there if we decide to to bail and wait till 2029 um does that alter much of what you're doing no um to be hon well I mean NE no I mean every in fact essentially none of it would be lost because we will be surveying that Corridor up to there um it'd be the coordination between the two I guess would be the potential so we're not duplicated work maybe sounds No and also you know just to remember that we deferred on another Trail because of that 2029 uh Road Improvement and this was the alternative there second highest priority feel like you know we want to be making progress on trails in the city and this gets rid of another dead end so it this opens yeah it connects this actually accomplishes something so I think it's I don't know if I 12 because in 4 years it'll be 550 oh sure construction costs are going to go up yeah no I'm okay moving forward moot motion to approve the design uh work necessary for for call it option A with the crossing yes yep yep had still have the conversation with with the home owner oh for sure either one of them two yellow lines I don't know if you can get a if you go back to that deal or even the ones just to the north of that too just to the north of that there's that LW right there yeah up here right there right there that seems wider yeah it looks like there is sp yeah this one I mean we just figured because of the water man that area is already protected we could look at the the alternate there's some storm sewer challenges right through here we're we think we can accomplish getting it safely through there we're hoping with Ada meeting ADA requirements but and and again you know to me that's going to save us a lot of money so if you can work that into the negotiations would help uh I need a second second any more discussion I should have asked this earlier but there is money in in the trail fund to do this work yep I facted that question to come up um CC member fashion there is 2.7 million in the trail fund currently so yes thank you yes any more questions okay we got a motion a second all those in favor say I I all those V say no carries 5 to zero all right we are on to item K inter use permit 15430 Brock evening Mr Mayor and members of the council uh tonight you're asked to consider an interm use permit for a home extended business at 15430 uh Brockton Lane North the applicants are John herbus Justine and Mitch fry um just a little bit of context the property is zoned A1 and is 10.93 acres in size uh the request is an iup for home extended business for storage of materials um including sand dirt lumber for forms um dump trucks two large and one smaller uh trailers and other ancillary equipment related to the business the business is John and Jerry asphalt and concrete services um the applicant has also noted that they would utilize one accessory structure that Eastern shed on screen here uh for maintenance and up to three employees not living on the site would report to the site load materials as necessary and leave for a job site site so essentially it' be a staging area for uh concrete and asphalt [Music] company uh some of the critical issues identified uh one being the dump truck storage the ordinance allows for one standard vehicle which is under 12,000 gross vehicle weight as identified in the uh code associated with the business to be on site and one vehicle not to exceed 18,000 uh GVW on site if stored indoors or sign ific anly screened uh from the RightWay and surrounding neighbors um and just for context the average gross vehicle weight of a dump truck is 26,000 lb um the applicant has stated that uh concrete and asphal work is not conducted on the site and is requesting for the opportunity to store the dump trucks uh that would be loaded uh at the start of the workday and utilized offsite um the applicant currently has two large dump trucks and one uh one ton jump truck which I believe has been identified as a um F550 of some sort type um during the Planning Commission review uh the Planning Commission acknowledged that this request is above and beyond what is standardly allowed by code for home extended business uh related vehicles and due to the limited use of vehicles on site loading and dumping um the Planning Commission recommended that the three trucks that the applicant has is the uh recommended limit for this interim use permit uh and additional Vehicles associated with the home extended business would require an amendment at that point and I think when the Planning Commission had uh done their review of the ordinance and the application um they reviewed this with the idea or with the thought in mind that there is a section of the interim use permit for home extended business section um that allows the city council the discretion to approve an interim use permit for home extended business above and beyond what the code standard is um so I think that that was uh kind of their um that was a at the Forefront of their thought when they were discussing this and how did that vote go by the way I was getting to that but it was a 3-2 vote recommending approval uh another issue that was a critical issue that was brought up during the Planning Commission meeting was the noise um it is understood that the loading and unloading of trucks will create noise during the act that might not be necessarily characteristic to the egg area along Brockton um and as well as the dump trucks having a backing up alarm when you in use uh in Reverse um Planning Commission did discuss this at length and noted that these noises are essentially a product of the proposed interim use um as such the PC did recommend a condition that is above and beyond what the standard is allowed uh per the ordinance uh in limiting the work hours on site to 7:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Monday through Saturday whereas the code standard for home extended businesses would allow for 7:00 a.m. to 10: p.m. um uh 7 days a week uh the Planning Commission held a public hearing at their January meeting uh I believe that there was five residents that uh did come forward and speak addressing concerns related to noise and uh visual nuisances um for the proposed use um at the end of the conversation it was a very robust conversation that the Planning Commission had uh they ultimately recommended approval of the uh request at a 3 to2 ver Excuse Me 3 to2 vote um subject to the following conditions um a 6-ft fence opaque fence made of water vinyl shall be installed on the North property line um to enhance uh the potential screening for uh the northern residential property or the neighbor um existing stored items in connection with the inter use permit be relocated away from the north property line and all interim use permit related materials are required to be stored on the south side the easterly accessory building that is utilized for the home extended business um and I will just go back to the site plan that the applicant provided here's the area that uh was noted for aggregate material storage uh while the remaining area would be um proposed for truck and trailer parking and it the green that green area the elevation is quite a bit lower right uh from my understanding and uh visiting the site back in I believe November or December that that is correct and just for reference um when properties over 2 and a half acres uh are requesting for an interim use permit they are permitted to have outdoor storage limited to 20% of the site uh whereas this total area and I think that I was being generous when I did the measurements um from this area provided is roughly 33,000 Square ft or about 3/4s of an acre including the accessory structure on the property what's the red area oh it's it's okay Truck and Trailer Park area okay there was um discussion at the Planning Commission meeting about a driveway that had been installed and paved uh that doesn't at least I can't see it on on these aerial pictures I assume that's because they're older yeah and you can actually where that is um once it gets back Beyond where you can see here the of the Westerly accessory structure um is where the paving starts to begin and that's where it kind of goes down into that um hole that the applicant is proposing to utilize for the storage so that would go around to the south side of the building then I do not believe that the paved area in the applicant can uh surely confirm or deny this but I do not believe that the uh entire area surrounding the accessory structure is paved I'm just trying to get my bearings there are we looking South in that view or more or less South this area I would say you're looking uh East and then this area you'd be looking more um I would guess Southwest or more straight west might be Southwest more than anything um I just to continue the on the some of the conditions that were uh addressed and revised um at the Planning Commission meeting the home extended business equipment and materials be stored on site so not to be as visible so not to be visible from Brockton Lane um vehicle equipment operation maintenance use shall not occur onsite outside of 7:00 a.m. and 8:00 p.m. Monday through Saturday uh the use of storage the use and storage of large dump trucks shall be limited to two large and one smaller dump truck uh any request for additional vehicle storage shall be reviewed and considered through an interim use permit Amendment um here's one that uh I believe the Planning Commission actually went above and beyond the standard for the code for um trips related to the home extended business um per the ordinance is limited to eight um but given the request that uh there are potentially up to three uh employees that would visit the site um the Planning Commission did provide a recommend a flexible 12 trips per day rather than eight um going on to number seven the interim use permit shall be valid for a period of three years from the effective date of this resolution or shall expire when the business is relocated or the property is sold um I think the Planning Commission revised this from 5 years to 3 years because the property was purchased in 2022 um and because this was uh an identified um interim use that was non-conforming because it did not have a permit um they figured that the the applicant has been operating um prior to this point and obviously that is the case since uh through our investigation we um are here now today um and number eight the city shall reserve the right to inspect the property during City business hours uh within with at least a 12 24-hour notice provided to the property owner to verify uh continued compliance with the applicable Provisions um of the Dayton zoning ordinance and the conditions of approval and then the standard uh language regarding um non-compliance uh where if we did an inspection and the the property was found to not be in compliance they would have 60 days to correct that um and if correction was not um found to be resolved uh I a revocation hearing would be held at the city council level to revoke the inter Muse permit again with these re with these conditions of approval the Planning Commission um did vote recommend approval 3 to2 and I do appreciate the planning commissioners uh who voted against although they were still active uh in the conditions of approval discussion so I appreciated that uh feedback uh question that I have uh on the North property line there's a black top driveway do you know if that is set off of the property line and the proper setback certain something that uh staff can verify I believe that the standard for driveways in the egg district is 10 ft from the property line and are we that far do we know that I at that point uh at this point I don't know but that could be certainly something that we can confirm okay are the red and red and green lines um well what are they yeah they're there to confuse this is a this is a confusing image but there was there is a discrepancy in this area on hipic County's GIS and looking at survey documents uh that green line is actually the uh property line and the red line is what shows um up on henip big County's GIS so well you can see that uh per henip big County's uh GIS map there is an encroachment of at least half of this accessory building on the property that is in fact not the case looking at survey documents yeah I wondered about about that because I I'm assuming that Corral is not being used either but that seems to go over the the hopen county line as correct okay so that's the actual property line the green line the green line the green line going back to the driveway when you pave a driveway are we do we require a permit for that yes a permit is required for that um and the standard procedure for working without a permit would be having them um apply for a permit after the fact they would be charged double the fee of the permit cost do we have a permit required if you replace a driveway not if you replace it it's really limited to um expanding the curb cut or expanding the uh driveway to verify impervious surface calculations can still be met with any expansion if you're replacing one: one no permit if you're making it larger reques perm become a driveway so we've seen we had a case last last con where somebody put in um any area uh I think it's a p uh cement drive it wasn't a driveway though was because it was back on the property what decides if this is as a driveway or not I would say that uh one of the things that can be considered when deciding whether this is a part of the driveway or not is if it's just if it's connected to the uh curb access uh from the start of the property or not um in terms of parking pads that are not attached to an existing driveway or a proposed driveway um those are treated in terms of the building uh permits as a part like a patio surface someone pouring a patio in their backyard or something like that and uh patios currently do not require a permit right okay but I would say that because it's connected to the overall driveway area on the property classified as a driveway yeah right along the north North line of that property there is a driveway going back along that row evergreen trees and my question would be is how far it is off the um the property line I don't know that um and I guess what I'm seeing here is and I'm not saying it doesn't happen all over but um to buy a piece of property just start doing whatever I want to do and uh pay the price after it's checked up on um I would have I would have concerns with to me this is a I don't know it's kind of a big deal I mean Public Works is that's got to be a couple thousand feet from my building and I can I can hear the trucks the beeping the the the tailgate slamming on a dump truck or something isn't that big a deal to me but the truck the backup beeping is a big deal hear de a lot where I'm at and and uh with the house being three 300 ft from the uh 300 ft from the uh proposed backup area that's going to be going on all day long and uh from what I can see in some of the pictures here there's been a lot of fill brought in to uh raise that property do we require a permit to fill fill your own L gr I don't know if we do or not I don't believe so no um what's to say all of a sudden on Tuesday July 26 that I don't know if this is Saturday or Sunday but there's no way we're going to be able to control the 12 trips it might be 25 trips on any particular day if you got a big job when you're hauling a bunch of uh scrap fill back into the facility that's where it's going to get dumped and there might be 20 trips that day what did we do with the property down on 117th you remember that the landscaper I mean they had I wasn't around for that approval but I do believe that they were allowed up to 15 employees um in terms of their conditions of approval I don't I don't know off the top I had the exact number of trips allowed do we have any more questions for staff or uh the other thing do we have fuel oil barrels or the diesel barrels sitting on the property to where we're storing fuel I didn't see any when we were on site um but that's certainly something the um applicant can verify for us but I did not see any when we did a site visit yeah and to your point council member uh salonic I did take a look at the setbacks to the north property and that home um is roughly 75 ft so yeah so as you can see the as you can see the the purple radius is essentially that 100t buffer that uh would have to be adhered to in terms of storage area um it's hard to obviously uh monitor the the dry vial in that area certainly but the storage area of that uh of this proposed use would have to be outside of that purple radius and that previous drawing shows the storage area way outside of there right yes I would say that uh not way outside but I would say that it is uh outside barely that's got to be 50 plus feet okay um you know the applicant come forward or you still have questions for staff I don't I have no questions for staff we ready for the applicant then yeah right you I come forward name and address hello my name is Justine this is John um this is 15430 Brockton lane north um so this is for the permit to be presented to you um after it was approved by both city council um or Planning Commission and um City staff um so I understand that this is the final decision um brought forward to you guys with you know talking about the considerations first I want to lay out kind of what haen did um that this is intended for storage of vehicles trailers um minimal um material as sand gravel and dirt um it would be the two full dump trucks the 550 truck um typically um during the work season it's going to be end of April to end of October um where staff will show up grab the trucks load them if necessary leave for the day and it's offsite for most of the day if there is potential extra material they may stop in once a day um maybe two times a week I've ever heard it and drop off that material um but most of the time they're offsite doing this park their trucks at night and leave um offseason so during the winter time they're typically working in the shop trucks aren't running skids aren't even running um and just maintaining tools and Machinery we tried to put things down in bullet points here so we can save time because the last meeting was very very long and Sarah can admit to this that's the Planning Commission what that's the Planning Commission well we're trying and first of all I want to stop and stop thank John and Hayden um for you guys to let you know that the city council has put these guys in charge of overseeing they have been good to work with they're very clear in directions of what we're supposed to do and what we're needed to go forward so you guys have got a good team there going um so they brought things clear um at the Planning Commission um we met and it was a long meeting we looked at some of the main um pieces of the concerns that they were looking were with visual impact and noise were addressed as the main issues all the other issues like the fence which will actually let's talk about the fence the fence will be a 6ot fence on top of a ridge where the Blue Line will be that's actually the high point between my neighbor and me and so both of our properties when you put that there start to drop off on both sides where you see my building is actually another 14 ft lower than that fence Will Be Daryl may not even see the barn that's sitting there the way the property is actually has with the AG of the property we've been asked to put the materials that we are leaving on site and we don't uh load our trucks daily it's not cost effective I go pick up material at where we're going to pick it up and we go use it if I have a little extra material instead of throwing it away once a day we may come and dump and we're going to talk about that with also the visual piece so visually when we put up that 200t fence that's been asked by the Planning Commission that will actually reduce any sight from the other property so we look at for um addressing the concern about the trees I have an arborist here on site that I've asked to come out and take a look at the property to make sure he takes a look at the health of the trees that concern as well to make sure we're caring about the environment noise we looked at the banging of the gate has keeps being brought up and the banging of the gate only happens occasionally once or twice a day at the most that's also being addressed we're looking at I wouldn't paid $2,500 to get vibrators installed in each of the trucks so that when we go to dump it's vibrated and comes right out so it reduces any chance of wanting to even bang the gate making it Al Al better for all the neighbors around us so with that being said we're looking at reducing that noise from the gates um I believe you asked about the driveway being put in it's not been paved what it's been is a little piece of asphalt here and a little piece of asphalt here that have actually got from jobs that wasn't used extra yeah extra pieces why throw something to waste might as well use it I'm a my daughter can attest to this I'm a cheap skate so alter conservative so looking at that piece um I don't think we're fully connected to the driveway up above cuz I had just been patching it along so technically we're not even attached to the driveway of above um it's just been going on this pieces so that we're not throwing rocks or making loose pieces and and do you know that you're 10 ft off of the property line I think we're close to 8 and 1/2 to 9 feet I just estimating that right now at this time I want to make sure that I'm with within respect well certainly if you go to a a if you go to Crystal or something and do a driveway every city has a setback tell me about and you know about those right oh we actually putting a new website together for that whole piece which would mean if you think it's 8 and a half that means you didn't check it here that is correct and it's not always in fact I was looking at it this was actually looking at not actually a driveway it's actually just basically reducing Rock and the drainage if I left that gravel then that would actually be a wash out on that whole thing as well so I wasn't looking at looking we haven't used a PA on it I own a Pap right I don't think you use the paper on any of the asphal from what I can see in the picture no it hasn't been it's just been little patches here and there so that I don't happen to have my rear end slipping and blowing the rear end out of the truck and so and basically not reduce dust now we have that down I don't have dust going on any place else and not have to put any type of chemicals down or anything because I don't like that as well so that's a good question okay so you also talked about um someone asked about oil or um actually fuel oil or diesel diesel tanks we have no diesel tanks the laws that require the ability to have a diesel tank and the risk with that is way too high yeah you guys got to remember cypes be nice to them they've been nice to the truckers we all go there to get our our fuel at cypes in Dayton well if you did have it there then then we'd be bringing in Gary the fire chief to take a look I like Gary I like say is bring more friends on the more oh one more thing for the council you can tell I'm add I pick up on a lot of different things I thank you for sending the fire engine to Ukraine my neighbor Michael is from Ukraine two of my staff are actually from Ukraine so it was a really good thing to see and I'm going to make sure everybody knows I actually connected with the Ukraine Community quite a bit so it's going to be a good thing to be able to let them know you guys did a great thing so with that being said I'm going to turn over to my daughter I know I think one of you guys said to to reduce that backing up noise the road um around the barn does go all the way around so when when we don't have to back up um to get out of there so you just kind of go around that Barn to get out oh you can make a full loop the full Looper on that Barn so that does reduce that backing up noise um so there was some videos that were brought forward during that Planning Commission um that I just wanted to address um they were said to be taken between that September and October time and I want to say that there was a lot of personal like things happening that we did we had windows installed that we had vehicles in there for we had AC sidewalk in place so there were cement trucks coming in for that for a sidewalk being put in we had an apron the barn had new concrete um one of our front yard trees fell almost on our house but it ended up going the other way during one of the storms that happened um so we were chopping up that use the skid help load um that away uh we made some garden beds moving wood chips so some of that noise that may have been heard could have been from just Home Improvement projects around the home um so this cosmore activity than normal um but weren't related to business activity at all I have two daughters under two at home and the noise personally has never woken them up from a nap never bothered them the slightest um I work from home I have meetings on a daily basis where I'm on webcam and no one has ever heard the noise um when I'm in those meetings as well um most of the time I don't even know if they're at a job or on site um when they're working um and the the noise hasn't bothered me yet I'd like to mention that before I even moved in there was a business before me and they actually had trucks it was Metro Excavating and Daryl actually knew that they were there and was neighbors with them and never had a a problem with them being there um it looked like after I bought the property it became more personal in fact um when Metro Excavating was there Daryl used the barn for his horses and used the field behind to care for horses that he were boarding Daryl's actually has his business on his side of the property and running a veterinarian business what did they um what was this business before you so I actually got their mail so that's how I kind of found out who they were because their mail's actually still getting sent to our house so it's Metro Excavating uh we look them up on Facebook and we actually have pictures of their large trucks in our property well when they um does anybody want to see this they're just yeah they're just they're the large trucks that we have as well it's same trucks that there was no issue at that point what dumb trucks yeah and also we have a person here that was the owner of this property that we bought it from that actually knew that this business was here and you can Michael can speak later can I ask a question who actually lives at the Dayton property yeah so me my husband and then my father so you don't live at the Maple Grove property that you have homesteaded my wife does okay or the non-homesteaded one that's kind of cut out in the middle that you also own I also own houses in Brooklyn Center and also Maple Grove just asking just making I only live at one house okay so you do live at the Dayton property the three of you do okay and oh my daughter said bring a piece of mail it's good idea you guys want to see this one too yeah I'm good okay just we're trying I tell you this I'm feeling much better the last meeting Sarah can admit I was a rambler I was so rest um and so I tried to become more bullet point and care about I did call each of you on Saturday hopefully I I I apologize I'm bothering you on a Saturday but I didn't know when else to call and emailed so that I'm here always in fact I know that um he Hayden and John know personally that if they have a question just call me and hopefully they can speak to that I've been a good person to work with so it's it's never our intent to you know make the noise or you know cause a nuisance and we'd like to you know discuss with you guys on like what we can do um to limit that um and for our surrounding neighbors as well so um we just ask that we can work together um you know after the Planning Commission and with staff to limit any concerns that you guys may have yeah I think the I think the fence the Shakers that I put in the truck reduces any banging of the noise adding on that I can drive around the building so that I can actually not have any backing up needed um we don't load in the morning any materials because I go buy them offsite yeah you're buying all the asphalt offsite for sure yeah yeah once the asphalt gets cold it's garbage but if I have let's say let's say a quarter of a ton I just dump it on site which would be in the evening and then later in the week or two weeks later I would then load that up see I think Sarah brought up a the thing is that asphalt and concrete would be terrible dumping your property and I agree with her but they're recyclables we actually get credit for asphalt and concrete we bring in cuz they crush it up and they sell it back to us so she was very wise in saying that but um I think somebody brought up what we dumped on the property we've moved some sand around oh it's beautiful sand on their property so it's a terrible it' ever go to waste but we did bring in base so that the trucks can drive on it so that is what we have brought in MH and so um I also have tried to meet with my neighbor I'm as you could tell I'm a very social kind of guy that talks with everybody and so I have met with darl a few times the things that he asked about when I first met with him what is my plan with the barn and I did tell him it was a shop to work on my Machinery because I own an asphalt and concrete business I did let him know that he asked me what am I'm going to do with the field I said I'm going to put cows in it and let him know that you know that's the goal it hasn't happened yet but it's the goal to do as soon as I get the fences mended and get everything going um you know we looked at I tried to commun communicate with my neighbors and everybody I know that to open relationship the only thing I ever felt like I ever get back from Daryl in fact at the Planning Commission when I left this group I asked him can we meet can we talk together how can we come to agreement and the only piece I heard was well when I run you out I'll give you what I paid for it or what I paid for it I think this is kind of personal um I do want to respect him that's why I went bought $5,000 wor the Shakers for that machine for both trucks so it doesn't bother him and so it's a respect thing respecting your neighbors do you guys have any questions for me I have a couple um good it uh you know these are we've had a couple of these come come to us in in my my time here and you're always starting out in a bit of a hole when you're asking for permission for something you're already doing and uh so that doesn't that doesn't start us out in a good place or it doesn't start me out in a very good place I I recognize that you know in Dayton we probably got 20 more of these that we just haven't heard about yet and and uh so there's you know it it is what it is but that uh certainly coming forward sooner around this would have been helpful um to this whole conversation I think there was you know really good discussion at the the Planning Commission meeting meetings around this um I had questions in my mind around what you know what purpose of six foot fence would do but you've addressed that so I appreciate that um because of the um the the pictures we saw uh that were originally taken by I believe Hayden on the original site visit there's a fair amount of cleanup that needs to happen and uh I'm hoping that that has or if not that that you know that that it's your intent to to clean a lot of what looks like junk to me um out of there some of that is they there junk um I have scrapped that has nothing to do with the business that's just me personally if somebody gives me a whole bunch of Steel I throw it in the pile until steel prices go up and then I get rid of it so that has nothing to do with the business that's just something I do personally um looking at the city I did come to the city before I even bought this property for two concerns is I wanted to know the zoning and the property was zoned for multifam I was really excited and then I asked about get needing to get a permit and I was told well don't worry until somebody complains so I take responsibility for not coming sooner um I have met with Daryl and didn't get any complaints until this fall and so I apologize I haven't been sooner here but hopefully working with John and Aiden I've been meeting all pieces you asked about me cleaning up the property the day that we were actually doing um that John and Hayden were out there we were pouring concrete in the building I did call and ask about a permit but no permit was needed um so yes we are going to be cleaning up when it gets closer to Spring here because winter has fallen on us in the meantime sure and the the asphalt beat that piece that gets a little fuzzier for me now because of your description how you're just kind of dumping left over there but certainly you understand that if if it is a driveway then it needs a permit and needs to comply with the the setbacks and we'll work with that and so on um I think that the through the process with the Planning Commission um there's some pretty significant conditions uh to this permit and so I would like to know from you are you are you intending are you even able to to meet some of these the hours of operation uh the number of vehicles uh you the business hours piece of it and uh you know complying with the the storage piece of it because nobody's coming out there every other Thursday to to check up on you right then we we have to have some level of trust that this is this is going to occur and my comment around the you know what appears to be junk to me in the yard you know that's part of being a good neighbor also and clearly there's a strained relationship here that I don't know whether you can fix or not but uh certainly every effort that you can make to to uh you know improve the appearance of of your operation I think would go some distance toward um mending things with your neighbor correct putting the fence up is going to be the biggest piece and we're not going to put a short fence up we're going over 200 ft and that will cover a lot of pieces that are that are looking at being in question um looking at making sure that we're reducing noise anything we can do that way um we're looking yet and then with the restrictions you said that are all there after working that many hours I'm tired and want to just rest also so you know there's there's plenty of we can work with all the we've been given a lot of how do you say guidelines guide thank you guidelines and we're going to be able to meet with all them you're able to to meet all of those yes the only one thing I wanted to ask that Hayden put out is that we were given only a three year if the council would consider it I'd like to go up to the 5year but I understand I'm getting penalized two years already and I'll accept that yeah I I don't know if I would support the five years because there's there's a little bit of a you know prove it to us with this and I know in uh it might have been the first Planning Commission meeting um where you you talked about that you had additional vehicles in your requests for potential growth and that's not included in these conditions and I think that you know long term I I would assume that your intent is to continue to be successful in your business and to grow that this might ultimately not be a viable location for you um the permit is for three years and and you'll be back here again um to to state your case again if this is approved tonight um so I I think that's you know that's a part of the three-year piece is that it it gives a little bit of a a window to kind of prove that you're that this is compatible with the neighborhood and that you're able to comply with these conditions and I will work with that gladly um I think that's what I had for comments I no General comments but no questions for the applicants anybody else have questions for I might come back in you can go you can go no I have no questions for the applicants I already asked all my questions at the Planning Commission meeting so I only have comments okay go ahead no I'm waiting till they leave and then we have our oh okay all right oh I don't know how part of me is part of me is is I would certainly wouldn't extend it either I I personally would go down to like a year and then and see where we're going with this because I have no faith being that we put a driveway in knowing that there probably is a setback but we didn't bother checking on it we started this whole business but we didn't bother checking on it I don't know if you're going to do anything that you're telling me that you're going to do in a re reasonable amount of time you just made the comment that if you work all day you're tired and you want to go home but no I don't want to go home I want to just relax I'm at home yeah yeah um what kind of fencer would is there parameters on the fence is is it a fence company that's going to put it up or is he going to go and buy a bunch of boards and put it up I mean that I'd like to see that it has to follow the permit okay yeah he would he would be able he would uh be required to apply for a fence permit then it would have to meet the guidelines of materials um there is no requirement in the zoning ordinance itself that a fence company pull the permit and install the fence and do we have the fence up by May 15th or something or we can certainly establish a a timeline to have that uh up I mean if fence certainly will help some it's definitely not going to control the the beeping I mean if you tell me that you're not going to back a truck up correct I I no no I'm agreeing with you as I will but I tried to reduce it by making it wider on the other side so that I'm driving through most of my trucks and trailers stay hooked up so that there's not a need to disconnect and reconnect yeah but it does happen and I won't buy right F will provide all the beeping FedEx is going to provide all the beeping need and sometimes there is beeping we we do get a lot of Amazon and FedEx and so there is a lot of beeping from them coming through the driveway the other thing is is there there something on the tailgate of a dump truck that when that gate comes down and Slams on there is that what this cushion or the vibrator thing the vibrator goes it's welded up in the top of the box so that it vibrates the material so the material comes down the reason that people bang is to bang and vibrate the the piece so that the material comes down so when I lower the tailgate it doesn't make much sound at all in fact you could be standing feet away and you wouldn't hear it because it's just a gradual hydraulic coming down it's that we do it on purpose to vibrate the material down so I would reduce that not doing it on purpose having the vibrator interact so that it actually knocks the material down okay somehow those side loaders so when I had that development going on next to me all summer along three minutes bang yeah every three minutes but and I'm not there this gets rid of that yeah I'm only there in the evening if that ever happens we're gone in the morning and go pick up material and go to work our goal is not to bring any home no I understand that I mean that would certainly be the goal but some of that's going to happen there's just no way around it um and we are a concrete and asphalt company so I'm not asphalting every day 2 or 3 days a week we're ripping things out 2 days we're Paving and because all that concrete's coming back to you no I don't want the concrete coming back it's hard then okay we actually have that dump and it's crushed crushed and brought back and we're sold it as class 5 gravel so we don't want the concrete on our side it goes back with a concrete truck or if we remove it from a site no difference than we remove asphalt that goes over to get um crushed back up and sold back to us so you're not bringing the asph the concrete back to to dump here no that becomes a pain and that stuff is hard to get rid of if you you know sitting in your place you got to dig it out you got to remember we're living there this is our home we don't want to have it destroyed yeah is the dark blue line the fence yeah yes the dark blue line is the 6 it's like 250 ft in what I looked at so I think we said 200 feet of fence we look are we going to work on the blue line or or 200 feet it's not it's not identified essentially um what the recommendation would be would be the extent of the inter use permit area along the north property line would have to be fenced so if that's uh 250 ft that's what that is okay and we could certainly uh Dimension out the um site plan that was provided by the applicant anybody else have questions for the applicant okay thank you thank you um should we open it up to do you mayor anybody want to come forward on this issue sure come on up name and address 15490 Brockton L North I'm the strong that owns the property just north of his outfit here um you have to give the name to your darl pardon me your name darl z um do you have all the photos on your slides that were included with the pet that was sent out I can surely bring them up no don't H that but he firstly the driveway is shown very clear in one of these photos photos taken parallel to the property line and it's pretty plain to see that this black top is is right up close to the property line and um on top of the uh spruce tree ruts can we can we kind of establish that the driveway has some questions and it's kind of a side issue yes absolutely seem it's right there yeah was this the one you were referring to well there's another one right there that fence is basically the property line see the trees um those trees are taking a huge beating because this uh I mean that looks like black top to me it doesn't look like some patch drop at looks like somebody uh purposefully paved the driveway there and snubbed it up as CL probably would have put it closer to the property line if it wasn't for all the junk there that's also Laying across my property line in places as well but these trees are are taking a huge a huge beating because U we're choking well first of all there was several feet of fill all there and then the the uh p butt that was put over that you can see that that he said the trees are on a n they're not I mean this is higher now than the trees are so that fence is the property line uh yeah but understood between both property owners that that existing um I don't know if it's PVC run along that uh property line but that is identified as the actual property line okay that that white fence that we're talking about correct yep there's a u a marker Pole right here oh yeah which I assume surveyors put that in there ID is profitable okay and we are nowhere as close to the setback of that property line what is the elevation change cuz I know that it was stated that the fence would be much much higher due to the properties coming down but to me it doesn't really look like there's much of an elevation change between that asphalt and that marker there's not it's actually a little bit higher is it six foot fence be a six foot fence yes I guess I think 14 ft was what the applicant had said would be the elevation difference between the fence no I think I think that's down here you're standing at the building okay from the bottom of the hill to that spot yeah that's where the materials can be stored as done so just for a reference I took this actually prior to being on site with uh the applicant when Daryl asked me to come out and uh see what was going on and this was right at the property line without encroaching on to the applicant's property um roughly where that fence would go um so this is just for us be taking a picture at the 510 and a half that I am um would be uh for just for context and it looks worse than that now so um I don't have to look at the mess but I have to hear the noise and my animals have to hear the noise and my house shakes the walls shake the uh pictures on the wall and I know this for a fact because I had open heart surgery last year early um so I spent a lot of time in my basement and this truck and trailers would come down and and go back back up and that house would literally Shake now to me that's a clear violation in your rules but for some reason the Planning Commission and and you guys the city don't think it's a big deal uh I wasn't asked any of this they I was just told it's not a big deal I think that's very unfair you know why was it so slanted I I don't get that um why wasn't my rights entertained I don't get that either uh but the noise the noise is significant the uh and there's no way any fence is going to take care of that noise that tree line would have had huge effect on the noise but the tree line is is is going down now I mean I don't know if any of that's going to survive be honest with you um and U and it's far worse now it takes a while for the damage to to really add up CU it to these trees die from the bottom up and uh right now it's a picture window for my yard to look back at this mess here um I have I raise Quarter Horses we we we train and compete with poror PRCA rodeos um these things are affected by this too um they're bothered by noises they're spooked by the sounds of the truck and it's not just the tailgate it's not the tailgate it's the air brakes it's the backup beep beep beep beep it's the grunting of the motor it's all of that you can say well okay I won't bang the tailgate well you still have four things going on aggregate coming out of the uh box the uh Spooks the horses up madly I mean to them it's a rattlesnake it's not just stuff coming out of a trailer or truck and uh it's on right on top of me you know I can't get away from it it's almost like it's an Amphitheater and I'm sitting there listening to this all I mean I I've got uh you know videos and stuff I'm 350 400 ft away from where he's dumping stuff and it sounds like it's sitting right there on the chairs that you guys are sitting on so I can't I can't deal with the horse business with the training and that sort of thing I mean I have people that come and help with the horses and that sort of thing um they come in with u a load to dump and he he explained at the Planning Commission that he's really cheap and he likes to keep everything and bring it back and dump it LO load it up and then made sound like far more involved than what he said tonight well we'll do it every now and then well it's not every now and then it was all the time and uh you know so I uh it's not compatible with horses if you know anything about horses um the it doesn't work so so I'm asked to to compromise here after he stuck this damn thing right on my property line there's 11 acres out there to me a thoughtful individual and and yeah there's some hard feelings here there's some hard feelings cu the first day I went over there and talked to the guy I said well just introduced myself this is in 2023 and uh he said uh um you know just so you know I'm going to remodel The Horse bar I said well what are you going to do well I like fixing things so I'm going to I'm going to make it a shot um I assume it was for fixing cars because you can't get a truck in it or anything like that mention zero about putting in this kind of business nothing I couldn't see what was going on there because we have a heavy Tree Line there I'm busy in the spring and summer I make farm calls I I I'm on the road from 6:00 in the morning till 10: at night and uh about September I see this tree line falling apart and I walk over there and I'm mortified looking at this stuff saying I keep my place like a park and I go over there and I look at this and I thought holy cow how did I how did I miss this now after I had my surgery I'm sitting in the basement listening to the house shake and that sort of thing I thought well he said he's going to fix the barn you know he's hauling in stuff for the barn that sort of thing um but no he's hauling in Phil there there's there's a lot of Phil has been haul in around that that Barn I don't know if it's clean Phil if it's dirty fill or what I do know that it runs off there it runs into the pond down below the hill that the burnens and I Vernon just paid $25 million for that property around that pond and uh um I don't know the quality of this stuff I don't know what's going to be going down that pond after all this all this could have been prevented if this would have gone through proper protocol this whole idea while I'm sorry I want to continue doing it I mean why wouldn't you do it that way if you get by with it so he says I'm being being unfair I don't think I'm being unfair I think a lot of guys would have went over there and hauled off on him so okay questions questions so I've compromised the usefulness of my property I feel like I mean I don't think you need to be a realtor to say that this has affected my in a negative way is affect only the only way it could positively affect my property would be if some guy with the same sort of business wants to come and buy something like this and with my luck by that time you'll make it illegal and I won't be he won't be able to use it for that anyhow but um the uh so by you the the the noise is a huge Factor there's no way you can get by without the air brakes there's no way you can get by without the backup noise there's no way you can get by without the uh motor grunting and that sort of thing like those big diesels do um there's no way you can muffle the aggregate coming in and being loed it up yeah you can shake the tailgate less than whatever okay so we got one out of five that's it okay thank you anybody else want to come forward my name is Travis Ison I'm a certified arborus for family tree service and I got called out to um uh look at 1543 sit down and speak into the mic this is my first time ever doing this thank you all for your service I appreciate all of you uh for your hard work um but uh as I was saying I got called out to review the tree Health uh on this property and um the the trees all look healthy on the 15430 I got asked to determine if the driveway was that the driveways on the lot were affecting the tree Health they're they're all wooded Lots there the they the driveways and and the the Lots I imagine were very thick before the houses were there and a lot of trees probably were taken away to to put these in and so the driveways do sort of carve through trees to get to the homes but the driveways are all plenty far away from the trees on the lot uh we did show this driveway a few times and whether it's 8 or 10 ft I don't know I didn't measure that um but the um the this shot here shows the woods and um it's it's a patch of woods that en encircles a adjacent property here and the the gentleman mentioned that the spruce trees that the dead branches you know die from the bottom up and that's that's true and that's completely natural and and normal and um and tree branches die where there's Sun deprivation and in the woods you're going to see uh dead branches throughout uh the outer shell of the woods here that we see is the greenest portion of aside from the top of the trees um so if the roots had been severed to a point where we cut off a half of the tree the Deadwood would be on this side of the trees where the driveway was and it would probably go all the way up to the top of the tree there'd be excessive Browning and remember that trees are replanted and Roots do get severed even trees as large as this and larger are transplanted with humongous equipment that cuts right into the Earth and severs the R so uh I I I would say that the any damage if there is any damage if you call it is just natural Deadwood dieback from uh being in the woods and I I have a couple pictures that are sort of the same pictures that you see and uh they just show a lot of heavy smaller trees that are sort of encroaching on these spruce trees that we're talking about um so the the trees are crowded with small saplings of Buckthorn Ash Bo selder all sorts of scruff that you'd find in the woods and it's it's uh not that it the the property was very well maintained it's beautiful beautiful property that you have and uh both Lots were very pretty um but the the pruning is probably more around the main yard and not in the woods so the woods are just left a natural state and I think it's just a matter of uh just completely normal Woods honestly so does anybody have any questions for me cuz that's really all I could say I'm curious um it's primarily spruce trees along that line there's one main row of spruce evergreen that probably intentionally originally a like like a wood break or PRI wind break or privacy or whatever it's a beautiful screen um as Spruce tre's age not having Deadwood is is pretty hard you'd really have to to continuously be triming dead BR I'm just curious what is normal for that type of tree in terms of U rot spread I guess for lack of a better turn does it go beyond the drip line does it yes roots are always going to go beyond the drip line on almost every tree some trees quite a bit farther than others uh but again when you pluck a tree from the ground to move it you you go pretty close to the trunk and you take out all the roots beyond the D line you you cut right at the D line and a lot of them don't survive well yeah they TR they're transplanted professionally like that for many you know hundreds of years so it the trees are do survive when they're transplanted in such a way all sizes so I feel like the Buckthorn the Box Elder the ash all these small trees that have been allowed to grow you know as almost as tall this this picture is showing a slight downward angle because there is a little bit of a hill at this angle but um there's a lot of trees that are crowding the the spruce tree so I feel like that's also causing Sun de ation this is a winter shot these are deciduous trees here if this was a summer shot that'd be all green leaves on these branches that we see and so that screen is is blocking out the Sun to the ever just a normal overgrown wood line I guess you could say there was trees all around this property that we're talking about that were I mean the woods are growing over the line to the to the front of the street there's trees growing at a 45° angle right out to the street and all around the whole lot there's trees that are growing out of the woods over so for safety you'd have to tuck that in also yeah I don't have personally any issues with I mean the trees are dying and Sun Sun deprivation certainly can be part of it uh Evergreens don't take they need some to grow I mean without a doubt um whether or not the driveway had anything to do with it to me isn't the biggest deal and whether that driveway being there for 16 months would make that tree die that fast I don't think so but maybe my issue is is we didn't check on anything before we just did whatever we wanted and that to me that's a big deal um I don't have any idea if follow that junk along the fence there I couldn't tell you whether it was there 2 years ago or 10 years ago I don't know I I mean to me I wouldn't personally want to live next to it either but one man's junk is another man's treasure I mean any other questions for thank you barbus thank you anybody else want to come up find up have chair yep name and address my goal is a sty 15340 Brockton Lane I'm on the south side okay so when we were talking I this whole thing is going to move the mic a little closer to you okay I'm sort of horse I'm yeah I hear that that's good that's fine this thing started maybe a couple years ago or so I used to own that property and I had friends of mine living there who had dump trucks and they lived there for two 2 and A2 years until Co came and then they kind of took advantage of me and took off so that's when I decided to sell the property but my point being is that the noise that we hear along that area it isn't just from the trucks that are there it's the semis that are going down Brockton Lane and that goes on every single day I don't care for the noise either but it is what it is you can't change that and when this whole ordeal started I've been friends with Geral since 1988 and we get along well my kids used to go over there and look at the horses and stuff but now when this whole ordeal started about John moving in there with his trucks I have been dealing with trucks because the balines who lived there for two and a half and possibly 3 years had dumb trucks all the time didn't bother anybody and what were they what was it it was a business I assume out business right he was he was an excavator also oh and um so the noise element I have a hard time with I'm right next door I hear it every day not just from the neighbors but from the Brockton Lane so that part I I I'm not quite sure why darl is reacting the way he is I understand it's his views his house his everything else but when this or Deal started I wanted to sit down with Daryl and John and sit down and talk because without talking nothing gets resolved and look where it's at now we're here Dayton City Hall cool right it's not the way it's supposed to be they're neighbors that's the part that bothers me about this whole or deal that nobody will sit down and talk help come to court here or to the council can't fix that so yeah you know okay so so as as far as I understand if if John's trying to remodel the area make it better we all go through that I built the barn years ago well that was noisy it's a lot of work nobody bitched about that excuse me nobody complained about that but you just it is what it is if you want to improve things you just have to go along with it and you talk and you understand and try to resolve issues without turning us into I'm not going to say that word so show excrement show is the term I use yeah so so in my aspect I think this has gone Way Beyond where it should have been it's just no nobody talks Jo one over there good took pictures took pictures John doing his thing over there he's trying to make things great so my whole issue is that this is Way Beyond what it should be being naed so okay all right well thank you that's really all I have to say it's just uh it's kind of a waste of everybody's time be honest with you anybody else thank you anybody else anybody else okay well so this is my second time talking about this CU I was still on Planning Commission when it came through Planning Commission um and I've been thinking a lot about the whole purpose of the home occupation extended or um interm use and when you look at the purpose it says the purpose of this subsection is to maintain the character and integrity of residential areas to prevent competition with commercial districts to encourage telecommuting and to provide a means through the establishment of specific standards and procedures by which home occupations can be conducted in residential neighborhoods without jeopardizing the health safety and general welfare of the surounding neighborhood so that really made me that compete with commercial districts because the reality is we have we have different Zoning for a reason there's a reason why we have Industrial and Commercial and mixed use and residential egg is always a little tricky because historically a farm was both right a farm is your house and it's your business kind of all wrapped up into one but the reality is commercial districts and Industrial districts are taxed higher not by us but by the city and the county because they put more strain and more burden on our infrastructure on our roads on things like that and so the idea is if you run a business you should be in the district that is zoned to run a business and so why do we have this home occupation ordinance and in my mind it's for two reasons one when you have a home business that is truly secondary um my friend has uh she has a a bakery business and it's starting to expand a little bit and she's not quite ready for a commercial kitchen but she's like getting there and so that would be something like that right her home is still her home but she's starting the business and this is kind of her Launchpad um or basically yeah to launch a business but this is clearly not a new business he's already gone through this entire thing in Maple Grove um and I'm sure Maple Grove had the same idea we'll give you a start you can get a chance and when your business grows and you get more trucks and more employees you're going to move in the industrial Zone where you belong and you'll pay the appropriate taxes and instead when the business grew they caped the Maple Grove and they plunked it over in us and I have no reason to believe that when your business grows again you're not just going to do the same thing in another Community um I feel like this is an industrial use and that's where it should be um also according to our rules uh they have to meet all the subdivisions three and 42 below in subdivision 3 there are some main things um the home occupation shall be clearly incidental in second secondary to the residential use of the premise I don't believe that's the case um the question of residency has come up and is still a little questioning for me um four no home occupations shall involve the use of equipment other than that customarily found in a residential dwelling clearly we're not meeting that requirement six all home occupations shall comply with the provisions of the city nuisance ordinance and city noise ordinance big questions there I don't think it is nine no home occupation shall generate traffic um two and from trips that is not characteristic of the neighborhood don't think that's being followed 10 no home occupation shall produce light glare noise order or vibration that will in any way have an objectable effect upon adjacent or nearby properties clearly not meeting that um and then in 42 B no outdoor storage um let's see here oh any outdoor storage has to be significantly screened from view from the street and adjacent properties and then see uh the setback of 100 feet from any dwelling not meeting that and F no more than one vehicle um which shall be under a gross vehicle weight of 12,000 lb can be parked overnight outside or near the home and one vehicle which exceeds 12,000 lb may be in a um stored within a building and we're not wanting to do that so for me we're just breaking all of the rules and we're completely deing the purpose of we have this Zoning for a reason this is an industrial use it should be in an industrial zone so my vot's no oh early ear today I'd asked you to uh check with Maple Grove what did we find out Leen so initially when we did our investigation on this site I did reach out because that was the address that was identified on their website as their primary business location um at that time Maple Grove had said that they are aware of the situation going on at that property have no open complaints or anything like that um so no action or anything like that has been taken for uh what is currently on those properties um and then I did double check with them as we were going through this process and nothing has changed of the fact for that so what is that property used for then cuz it's part of the business from U my understanding working with the code enforcement officer in Maple Grove is that uh it is a residential property that is also utilized for storage of um equipment similar to this so both materials and trucks or we don't know that was not clarified by the code enforcement off officer it was just uh more so understood that it was utilized for storage of business related um things okay did that address your question Cil M yeah that we followed up today that what we heard today you know my my initial reaction to this was not not positive it feels like an industrial use um you know looks like an industrial use and and so on I I guess I have come around a bit on it because number one it's it's a three-year permit um I don't see this as a long-term use for this property and you know what's going to be different in 3 years probably not a lot you know there's no development that's going to happen in that area for for some time I'm clearly not compatible with the with any kind of a residential neighborhood um I understand the concerns from the uh neighbor to the north you know that this is interfering with his his business as well as well as his U you know um enjoyment of his property uh I think the uh the mess concerns me um but I I can't go a half a mile around this town without seeing a mess in somebody's yard and you know that's something we're going to have to reconcile with here we had somebody here up during open Forum uh talking about the same kind of thing in a residential area so it it it is endemic in this city and and that's something that we are going to need to deal with as a as a council and how how we want to enforce or change our existing rules um but these are some pretty stringent conditions in this u in this uh ordinance or the the permit um losing the word here the resolution that that we're looking at uh when I look at those if those can if those can be complied with um then then I'm not having a big problem with it I think you know the applicant could go a long way um toward uh improving his relationship with his neighbor by cleaning up the junk which is not really part of this application but I I think that that's you know as big a a big pain Point as as some of the other things that are that are involved and so I am I guess I will say I am not a fan but I I would vote to approve based on these conditions my concern is so far all evidence points to not complying with the rules well that's that's where we started right the business was already there before a permit has continued to do things that don't follow the rules and for someone who should know the rules like setbacks for driveways so I I would question I I don't personally see any good faith that these rules will be followed I understand and how do you enforce them I think is kind of where I'm stuck too is like you can lay out all of the guidelines that you want and be as you know stringent as you want to be on them but if we can't enforce them are we're not going to enforce them we enforce them Thea the iup would get pulled if it was in violation well if you go out there and you check it but like you said you're not going on every Thursday to make sure that we don't have an extra dump truck or we didn't come 13 times today right well this with with all of our stuff it's complain which then goes to keeping I mean how do you build a good relationship with your neighbor enely based on complaints I'm just not convinced that the noise isn't going to be an issue I mean do we as a city know the previous excavation company did were they registered at all either I do not believe that there was here then you wouldn't know other people breaking rules is not a justification like if I get pulled over I don't say well the person in front of me was speeding and you let him go so therefore you should let me go yeah where I was going with that though is is we didn't have a complaint back then and now all of a sudden we do so there's a little more to the story here than what we're getting um yeah there was there mayor C there's never been an iup poll on this property the answer the question I I get what Sarah you're what you're saying I mean every rule in the in the book is broken by somebody and uh rather than checking up on him but if you give him a 24-hour notice I can fix anything in 24 hours before you come out um the only other thing that I can see is is to me if it's allowed the fence has got to be built by June 1st of this year um all the debris from that fence has got to be removed before the fence is built the driveway's got to be within tolerance within setback we got a lot of work to do here U and I personally would not I wouldn't let it go 3 years before that work is done to me it's got to be done sometime this summer well I think in reference yeah for in reference to the three years that's the length of the permit yeah um so he would still have to other Provisions can be added in there I correct absolutely yeah conditions of approval can be added so you just saying by June you'd want the fence done fence has got to be done the property got to be the all that Junk's got to be cleaned up um so do you want to add that as a provision C well I'm not there yet but I mean to me some of them things got to happen and we're going to have to have somebody go out whether it's uh hun or somebody's going to go out and check yeah I want to make sure it's known to the council that in order for us to require it to be done it has to be written as a provision of right and we can say it's strongly recommended but we can't require it unless it's a condition of it's going to be if I go along with it it's going to be a requirement just want to make sure that's clear of what that means may I ask another question if we're going back to the complaint thing sorry I'm really stuck there I think how all of our stuff work yeah understood we have 40 employees doing okay so if it's based on oh hey we've gotten a complaint right we've gotten a complaint that trucks have been here you know 13 times this is what stops your neighbor from day one coming in saying oh I heard the trucks 13 times and then they call the next day I heard the trucks again so like how do you validate that and say they really did break the provisions or this is just you know doesn't want to hear the noise I wouldn't want to hear it either that's not what I'm saying but like how do you know that it really is you violated the conditions or I just really don't want this here so I'm going to call you every week I'm going to call Zach every week and complain about it like there's no way to validate that so for me that's really hard to Like There's No Boundaries on it and I don't like that does that make sense like if it's just on complaints of hey they're breaking it that's like a he said she said kind of a thing and again like if we already have contention between neighbors you're just asking for more noce complain it like that I me the cheap comp oh 100 I agree with you but I guess I'm just saying that like if there's 13 trips in and out or there isn't you're never going to know that and to me 12 also feels like a lot I mean that house is really close the pro they were really close and it it makes sense to me where yeah on the one side you're going to hear it cuz your house is what you say 75t as oppos I'm looking at the lot lines right now there's a large meas distance 540 ft yeah between and so how far is it from Brockton I'd say 500 ft which one which house the the neighbor's house that's those I lived on Brockman those are the trucks up and down there all this is the property8 ft and I'm not I'm not saying that there isn't I'm just saying you would hear more being right there as opposed to on the other side and so you're going to get a noise complaint from the same person over and over again and at what point do you go well is that somebody just complaining cuz they don't want this next door or is it really happening there's no way to validate that and I guess that's where I'm a little bit stuck cuz I like clean edges and nothing is ever clean edges but I like the most clean edges as possible and I guess I don't also have good faith that it isn't going to be 13 or 15 and I the track record doesn't look good we started out from a bad spot I'm still again a little wishy-washy about the properties and there's the Maple Grove one and the Dayton one and all of that feels like there's a lot of homes in between for one at home extended business like there's two Residential Properties why wouldn't you have just moved into an industrial area at that point if you're willing to buy two full properties I don't know I guess maybe I'm just getting off in a tangent and I should stop but everything about this feels sticky and I don't know how it wouldn't be a nuisance and I wouldn't want to buy your house 75 ft from this I'm sorry you have a beautiful property but I wouldn't want to buy your house I wouldn't want to raise children there like that's just way too close to all that noise and all that in and out and it's not the use for that property I'm G to stop um mayor counil I do want to address one question and I forgot to address it um during ccil van aon's comment about um taxes so when an iup is approved with a property with a home extended business that is s submitted to the county and the county does then a recalculation of taxes and then they do classify by the business and the house taxes changed from being just residential to being a industrial taxes not fully but there was a portion so that is redone that was redone with the lawn smart business down on 117th Avenue and that was the first time I had realized that was the process and so I wanted to make sure that was clear the council members as well yeah whenever the Count's here they are very clear that they will decide yes how a house is classified that is correct so that it does change the classification slightly not saying it's right or wrong just giving all of the information so you have that thank you for that clarification thank you is there something you want to add to the cup or the iup that might help you I guess maybe that's why it is even more sticky because I don't know how you enforce that like I'm open to any suggestion about how you would like validate that and and maybe there isn't another way other than noise complaints I just but that is are iops that's the conditions are always that way you you right you you you count on the the owner doing what the IOP says and I think that maybe that's again where I'm stuck cuz we didn't start out in a very great spot and I particularly considering they already have an iup in Maple Grove so they should know how the process works they do do they they do not have an iup no they're just operating oh good grow from my understanding Maple Grove operates the same as the city of Dayton in terms of complaint-based uh enforcement so you got it it's no complaint no process okay that property is pretty out there I don't know if you looked at it or not it's there's nothing really around it I mean there is but it's so SC where you at the other issue is we I can think of six of these within two miles of my place that are doing the exact same thing but that signals an issue with us not yeah that's our fault right like am I wrong there like if we know I mean that's kind of on us that we didn't and again if we're all complaint-based but actually I think a lot of them that they they don't necessarily know that that's that that's they're not allow you don't know what you don't know I mean would that's fair but I guess I I don't know sorry I missed okay so you're saying you're you're no or is there something you can put in I um okay so I'm with Scott on the timeline of when the fence would need to be built yep that is a no-brainer for me if you're going to move forward and then resolve the driveway issue whether it's or not or yeah you're going to give them can it be moved yeah absolutely can t up I mean no but I I I mean maybe maybe there is a middle ground right and I'm just he may not have to tear it all up but he might have to tear up two feet right oh no I'm saying like move it to the other side of the house drive your trucks down the center of your property if you really want to have this business know that's possible I don't know the howy let you do this well no that would certainly help that would certainly help I mean you defer just I don't know if he can come in from the south side of the house or not I don't know that I don't know I'm just it would move it so it's not 75 ft from someone else's house that may solve a lot of your issues a lot of your noise a lot of well again I'm just saying the brockton's right so I we lived we lived probably 500 ft up on a tree coverage between his house in Brockton is insane compared to the own or Tre coverage there I'm talking about noise yeah I know but I'm saying the trees help a lot with noise more than anything else know way it was between us and you can't tell me that there's not an increased amount of noise having a dump truck driving if you're going to rip it up anyway right I mean I not saying that they are but if you're going to pull it all up is there an opportunity to look at if it would be feasible to move it to the other side or to go around the front of that accessory building instead of you know on the prop line I could get on board with that not that it's John's house is up here right Daryl's right Daryl's House I'm not trying to be difficult I just it's sticky I'm sorry I agree with you they are all sticky and I just have a really hard time with this one I I'm going to do this I'm going to make a motion for approval of the resolution with with the added uh conditions that the the fence is done by June 1st the uh driveway situation is resolved to make meat city code and whatever penalties go along with installing that uh without a permit and um 45 days to uh clean up all of the storage that is along the property line with the understanding that all storage related to this business occurs within the um permitted area of your your circle that you drew around the that for the the home extended business 45 days from when from today approval if it's approved okay from today would you I'm just going to put a complicated factor into that if that's frozen into the ground and it doesn't get warm enough and like it's Minnesota it might not we might be frozen for 45 more days I don't want it to be but it could be so do you think you think longer I mean my Voice's no matter what y'all say I'm just saying realistically like we have stuff to move and it's frozen in the ground I'm not moving anything right now sounds like there's Bobcats around I think you can pull stuff out I bet if you hook it to the back of the dump truck it'll come it'll go um so okay that's but I I think we need to to bring this thing home and so that's that's my motion you rather like table it until this stuff is cleaned up or you just want to um no I guess well maybe we need to talk about that but my U feeling is that this this um use is not approved subject to inspection that the 45 days isn't you know we uh we just Trust on this that we we need to verify that this actually occurred and if that doesn't happen within that time frame then then the uh the uh interm use permit is is null inv void so all the conditions need to be met right so a condition of approval essentially that 45 day if that is the window that the city council allows uh if approved um staff will go out and inspect the property on that 45th day to ensure yes so be it' be condition of approval technically it would be approved unless that condition is not met then it would be denied orote I want one one more cave yet and um uh John you're going to need to come up here John y can I just note one thing on that 45 days is that because it is a condition of approval if that's not met we would follow through with the revocation process um that this would come back to you you'd have to hold a public hearing pull to pull it yep so it wouldn't be contingent on that uh on that cleanup um unless you I'd have to look and see if you can write that in there where it's con the approval is do a contingent approval I think upon that if we needed to but if you tabled it we have to do this all over again not necessarily you could have the uh the there a request that you're doing I mean technically you could table it for 45 60 days until the clean is done um I mean it be no different than approving it I guess my question is this I'm not sure why we did the driveway along the property line there uh because to me it looks like you had to cut a few trees down to get it in there why would you have not have put the property or the driveway back to the barn on the south side there is there is one there it's very steep right here so to make it a drive around to reduce beeping and then easier on the well that know there's the driver on is still there I mean no that was that the driver on was at it but looking at is the north side there it's more gradual may I go up and point at it well that's that's cuz of all the fill that was brought in probably no cuz it was a high point of sand okay and so what I did is I actually took the sand and pushed it over and kept pushing it down so this was a high ridge of sand and this has been dug out here so this is basically the High Ridge sand that was there and that's all I did is to make it so it's more gradual this is so much short it's very Steep and very unsafe and then this drops down even more so this is the highest point drops down drops down more and drops down even more and it keeps going down to the lowest spot out here so that's the conture of the ground yeah to me you could have solved the whole thing by knowing full well that you didn't follow the uh the setback on the North side I didn't know and I apologize I looked at the or the city tell me you don't know okay because that's your business every city keeps changeing it and yes I'm going to but before you ever put a driveway in any other City you go to the city and make sure somebody checks to make sure you can put the John can I have you speak in front of the mic just so they get you're good thank you no I want to follow the rules so I did make a mistake okay and I will own up to it and fix it okay I'd like to see the driveway on the southide to me that solves the truck being that much closer to him how do you get a turn around though or how do you make a Le I and the drop is is more than 20 ft from the top driveway have to fix this right here I me me you can come right in through here and then you just go around like this you just come in here go around right out instead of going through here this is the the main issue right here you just come in here and go around like this do most of your loading over here CU then your your garage is helping shielded right that's why we decided to put the aggregate on the other side so that he doesn't hear that that's fine but it would have been so much mean right there what about um instead of going around the building you went around the storage area is that too much of a drop no it's even more greater is it it's like 8T there so and Scott to to talk to your point is from the top of that driveway to the bottom of the garage that's got to be another at least 8 to 9 ft drop so the only reason I picked the side is that that was the most natural one that was already there yeah and and you are correct I should know my business better I thought I looked at what it was and I was looking at the houses that were already built not the farm piece okay so I will gladly fix that to make it the follow the proper way it needs to be the the driveway the driveway yeah yeah we need to put the driveway to bed we already decided that that's a problem and it's going to get resolved right I want to work in fact right now I I'll reach out to to Daryl I'll go out to dinner and I'll pay the whole thing I want to get to know my neighbors better that offer has been given more than one time okay okay all right thank you I'm going to ask darl come up he wants to talk to can I answer one question that you had M um you mentioned the the trips back and forth with how many trucks the trucks would sorry the trucks would only like leave in the morning come back at night the 12 trips would mostly be um like the staff or like his staff coming in and grabbing the truck and leaving so it's not the the dump trucks 12 you're correct correct it's 12 TR including the staff coming in and grabbing it so it's their their personal vehicle coming in is one right um does that count as a personal vehicle okay I just wanted to check that too their personal vehicle coming in on site the truck leaves gone for the whole day may come back to dump something if they do leave come back again put it away so that's four just for that one Dum five that's six per per person that's why they said 12 right you're going to burn 12 in a hurry you got two employees right yeah two-part time hang on but when we're doing concrete we're not coming in and out at all because that comes out of my other trucks but to adjust that noise part the noise from the trucks would only be when it's not them on a personal vehicle so and that's not every day I don't think personally I don't think the issue involves the personal no that's the issue oh then it's even lower well no unfortunately it still counts on your trips we still count understand to be respectful go ahead mayor C I'm going to be honest with you I don't 12 trips is going to be very tight if I'm I'm going to use you Justin as an example if you have to run and get milk during the day that's going to count as two trips now but that's that's my person I know but how how do we do I'm just trying to make it clear that how do we track that that's your personal stuff or your husband's personal stuff not the business and stuff until or your Nanny comes over Nanny goes home like I want to make sure if we're calling I don't know well I guess that's that's that's why I want to make sure it's a question we should have that number should have been aimed at the trucks not personal cars I mean even if it is part of the business I got FedEx coming in a couple times Amazon a couple yeah this is why I posed the question and well no it seems like the the triple in that there if you want to change the language you could change it it should have been aimed at the trucks truck something can I just say the reason that the Planning Commission did that intentionally was to limit the number of trips that could happen with the trucks and so there couldn't be an In-N-Out ever at most the truck leaves and it comes back and that's it no In-N-Outs that was why we were that ridiculously strict for that reason the only thing that's not going to happen he's got two jobs during day should been AED at the trucks not the personal vehicles that's that's my concern and I don't know if we want to if you guys want to change that I I don't know I really don't think matters cuzz you can't enforce it anyway well I mean we mean we can't enforce it but might be a waste of a day for an employe that's what saying no one is going to go out there and count how many so I think that the number we can boring day to can can and will are different things can and good use of time are different things we can't enforce how many campers are in the backyard how the hell we going to enforce how many trips are there yes I I hear you so I guess like I'm not stuck on the number of in and out or we say we can enforce it I guess yeah you can come I should we can we can I that it might not be efficient St one question before you answer that John yes sir or darl when the previous business was there was this an issue back then um or wasn't no tell me he never got to the back part of to the northern property Dar can I have you talking to the mic please thank you so much he was dumping some Phil um I think east of his property a little bit and uh I never met the people okay they were quiet they stayed to themselves still had trucks going back on course right he had one truck he'd leave in the morning he come back in the evening he was a subcontractor for somebody so so he went did his thing somewhere else and pulled in pulled out um so he wasn't storing anything on site no no completely different scenario the U I don't know if this is my place or not but there's it's your time just there's 11 acres there folks and Michael already said the noise isn't a big deal um he lives here there's all this space now John says he can't afford to put a building there we shouldn't have remodeled it before he had permission to do it you can build a shed like that for 40 $50,000 and uh he uh yes you can well he didn't build a Manion so you you don't agree I mean I wish I would have known who your Builder was cuz I couldn't find any building for that price nowadays not since Co not happen but it's okay okay so so how much do you think I'm off it depends on how big that one is I 1 152,000 yours is almost it's a half a football field all right R track you you build that building for 80 to 100,000 okay no problem um he said he couldn't afford to build another building but he offered to buy my place so he obviously I don't know one of them was true I either he could afford to buy my place or he can't afford to buy the building seems like he talks both ways sometimes you never know which but my point is there's a lot of space on the southern part of that property Michael doesn't care about the noise he thinks I'm overreacting um what's wrong with it going over there why are we married to that building we have no obligation I mean that yeah he ran gas to the building and he cemented it out uh um it doesn't make the building useless does it work if the driveway's on the other on the on the south side does that help um does it help me yeah oh I'd be fine with it yeah okay okay I I I'm not trying to be grudged I'm not the the guy get along somehow we're here yeah I mean somehow or another we got to come to a mutual agreement and it's going to be uh barriers on our stipulations on this I I iup if that's if that's where we are we get are you done you okay I can thank you yeah John can you come back up here for a minute the North Drive it seems like everybody's hung up on that is there a way to deal with this whole situation without that um the believe that the septic is right here okay okay so that's one I got to stay away from y the drop from here to here would mean that I would have to be able to bring in a lot more fill and I still can't turn even if I turn it around here I can't get through here because the drop drops so fast I mean when I ask mean the drop drops fast within from me to you it's over 6 ft drop so that's what's been causing me to any different a way to do turn around where that south or east of yeah east of the the green box there here yeah m is there way to do a turn around it's it starts dropping all off I took the the sand here pushed it to there as you can see and then it just drops off even farther that's interesting because the henen county GI the their two line elevations are usually pretty accurate and it does not show it as being that that sharp or steep of a drop from which so that I'm get getting you're exactly what you're talking Sarah so when I'm looking at the henan County Natural Resources GIS that has twoot elevations which in all of my use of them has been fairly accurate um it's not showing that it's that steep as you're talking about right here that that whole SP yeah it's not showing it being that steep so okay so Phil brought in to make it steep somebody else before me it and Michael's here and can speak to it if you feels like it um that it is steep in that spot cuz he just shoveled the snow there and so so I think that you know the question really the way or the way I think we need you to think about it is could it be done because it may not be ideal but if you don't get the permit you're not doing any of this so could it be done could you make this work even to the east of that St even if you're hauling in 20 loads of dirt right I haven't hold anything in no even if you have to um I mean I'm not expecting you to have that done in 45 days either right that's my mind is going cuz actually Hayden's tougher than you he wanted me the fence done by May 15th it was something like that yeah he was tougher than you that I had to have so I give you two weeks right well so he's actually he might have snow on May 10th yet who knows and thanks to Sarah pointing that all but looking at this this right here um I can do an elevation and try to hit them but it's going to come down really close to septic here and then this is it's going to be a lot of fil cuz this from here to here is a is 5 to six foot drop So currently currently you wanted to go like this and then turn around in here no we come around here and what we did is added a little bit here and coming up this way and would come up I mean know would come up this way my TR won't go up this hill I to suggest it's really narrow in there I can't drive through I wish I could I can't even drive move it to the other figure out how to move um so that's why this is long and narrow if I did that here I would have to come out here grudgingly get on board with the roller okay to make it so that it actually with the provisions that that I wrote yes just too steep that's why the narrow there the three and so I can look at hauling it in over time could I do it in the first 6 months I may need more time here's where we are because I think if we would have came and and said here's what I want to do back in 2022 that might have been a suggestion at that time so I think here's where we are I'll go along with this deal as long as we take care of all the fence on the North line or take care of all the debris on the North Line put that fence in by June une 1st I personally would give you 60 days to clean it up just cuz it goes until like April 10th yeah okay I mean it may not be thought out until the first ail who knows and I want that driveway on the on the south of the building and I would probably give you all of 25 to get that done all of 25 what 2 2 the year 25 okay to relocate the driveway to relocate the driveway so there be can you work with that um yeah so you would not be able to have a driveway on the north side of that building I would up until 25 or I can't get trucks in there to even put the material you so I I have to have a variance for one year not a year until 25 is over so you're going to be done by November 15th and you're right by then the South driveway has got to be done right otherwise otherwise we pull it so I'll amend my motion to increase the time for the cleanup from 45 to 60 days and the balance of 2025 to move the commercial use um driveway piece of it to the south of the of the pole bu pole building the barn will the iupp state that there's a year to do that or how you how would you word that yeah we would we would put a condition of approval that that relocation occur by the end of 2025 how does that sound not good but I'll make it happen I mean it feels at least you are 100% correct I wish I came in here the de way before I bought it okay you're 100% I was misunderstood I take responsibility I'm not passing it on um I'll make it work yeah and I I take responsibility for not doing it for sooner and the fence is done by June 1st Dave yeah yeah I forgot that part yes but yes and I and I think you have to look at it you know nobody's getting what they want out of this deal right can you make it work or do you move your business those are those are really the that's really what we're staring at here today I listened and so I'm hearing you say that you you can figure that out it won't be it won't be perfect for your operation but you could figure it out yeah well we're nowhere till somebody seconds the motion anyway so are you firsting it I'll second it and okay and I just want to make one note as a driveway permit obviously would be required at the time of you before before you do any work on that South End of the property or of the East shed a driveway permit would have to be reviewed and approved by the city okay and does that that would have to do with pitching and all that kind of stuff too I'm sure uh pitching depending on the the what the zoning ordinance requires I'd have to take a look at that but really it would uh just rely on the kind of a site plan drwing out where the addition is going to be with that being said I would need that red area to increase to the South is that a tree line just along the south of the red line trees or bushes trees and why is that tree line there it seems like because there's actually a fence that goes and divides the property so that's the top half that that when Daryl was using the barn he used the top half of that the bottom half is there was horses here three owners back or two owners back okay so are we we could and Daryl you can live with that the all the debris on the North L North property line has got to come out uh Fant that's that has to come out in 60 days the uh fence has got to be put in by June 1st and he's got until the end of 25 to get the driveway on the south side instead of the north side so you're going to put a have to you're going to have to put up with a little bit of noise this summer especially if there's being Phil being brought in and fix the drive yeah but in a matter of one two days that can be done oh no there's going to be more I was going to say that's a lot of it's a big it's a long big drop I just want to be I want to be honest I can't do it two days part of the terms to remove the driveway that's on the property line yes yes how soon that happen by the end of 25 end 25 yeah he needs to use it until he's got the South one done you can't get back there without a driveway at all you said there's a driveway there now a steep one I have to be filling in the driveway that is there now make it de longer is what they're asking me to do we can't use it we has to fill it right I don't I personally I don't know if you can drive across it or not I haven't I haven't seen it so so I need to be able to have the one that's there in place until correct so we're we're giving them a year 20 the end of 2025 to fix that problem to fix that Sal the driveway yeah I think that's fair I mean y add the South one remove the north one the5 that's what I'm hearing you did TR you didn't trust them you trust them now well either it's done or the business is moving what either either he does that by the end of this year or that that our black top business is over okay so you got that motion yes is it all good good to go all right we have we have a motion in a second um any more discussion all right hold this favor say I I I no no and okay and I found out at the last was it the last Tex meeting that I am related to this guy so I am going tostain um so passes 3 to one good luck with everything thank you I got my work ahead of me thank for your this is one chance you get thank you okay 15 minutes during hour and a half now you know why the Planning Commission meetings take so long it's not our fault not their fault we still don't understand that one but you guys probably took longer than an hour and a half oh my God we did I'd say three item L all right back again here uh Mr Mayor members of the council tonight you were asked to amend the city code related to garbage and refuges uh to clarify location of uh containers on Residential Properties um this was brought up from a HOA president uh related to uh writing guidelines to understand how um things how they can regulate the location and requirements of uh garbage containers within their HOA um And to clarify this discrepancy we found that uh chapter 50 that was adopted in 1978 requires that uh all containers be stored at the rear door um of the property that it serves or the building that it serves uh while a more recently adopted chapter 130.7 only requires containers to be within 3 ft of the home and kept in a neat and orderly fashion um this language uh does not dictate location so to clarify this discrepancy the uh ordinance amendment in front of you uh removes the the language in chapter 50 that was um first adopted um and then consolidates the container location and understanding in that regard um Within Chapter 13.07 um the amendment also uh just when looking at this uh the amendment also removes a requirement for them not only be stored at the uh rear door um but also that uh it updates the container size limitations to reflect what is currently provided by service providers um I think the current language is 90 gallons when looking through the some of the website information from the service providers in town the maximum container size is 95 gallons um so that just clarifies that and then finally the last section uh just uh in discussion with the public works department um staff is also recommending language within that ordinance Amendment uh that requires that containers and dumpsters at construction sites be covered at the end of the day while they're not in use uh to prevent debris um kind of uh becoming a problem to the surrounding area in neighborhoods um so those are the three main items for the uh the city code Amendment um this is not a public hearing the Planning Commission was asked to provide feedback even though um the ordinance Amendment did not go to them so um with that I'm happy to answer any questions question that I have is this going to be a a code amendment that we can enforce well essentially what you see on the no no what you see on the screen there for pictures is what you would expect to see with this amendment um so what is essentially in those would be uh permitted I have a question oh okay I'll be brief um so it says in here must not exceed 95 gallons that's the change in size unless specifically authorized in writing by the health authority who in the world is that and why do we care is this to keep a dumpster from sh up why do we care if it's 95 K well that's the that's the limitation on a a residential property where a single family property wouldn't necessarily have a dumpster but also if the code language stays at 90 gallons and uh curbside waste provides a a a maximum size of 95 gallons someone could certainly come with a complaint saying someone has a 95 gallon that's not what I meant what I meant was why do we have one at all why do we have one a limitation yeah um I don't I guess I don't have a better answer than uh I think that dumpsters are um not necessarily something that uh the is permitted currently on single family residential at least so that's the intent so what happens next year if a says we're doing 100 gallon things then we got a I'm just I don't know it just appr by the health authority yeah the health authority I don't know I mean I understand we don't want dumpsters sitting there but at the same time I just don't know why we expect this stuff some of this stuff the only thing is to me you got to have some sort of a variance there if you want to get a dumpster I mean I'm going to be taking on down a whole bunch of elk fans next this this summer and I'm going to have a dumpster now I'm not residential but I mean if somebody wants to remodel their basement they should be allowed to get a dumpster for a week 10 days two weeks and there is uh Provisions in the code that allow that yeah you can have that you just can't have one consistently like you can't have a dumpster in your front driveway for 365 3 have a dumpster permit no DP yet $85 for dump permit it's a great s great suggestion yeah it's no big guy side was OD that we put on it and I'm fine with I don't know can we change it to say it to what the provider we could certainly do that is normally provided by the provider yeah that makes sense although yeah right I mean the idea I understand where you're going but there needs to be some kind of a standard where okay now this is not a residential sure I get that container a commercial I'm just saying I mean I wrate requirements for living and I'm telling you this is one that's going to again we already ran into trouble with it so if if we're worried about dumpsters why don't we just say it's got to be under 200 gallons or I don't know or maybe what Amy said limit it to what is available at the V limited to what's provided by the again it's not a big deal because you're not going to get complaints over it it just I don't know why we expect some of this stuff that can certainly an amendment to this uh ordinance Amendment we need a word Smith it better though if we're approving it tonight all right who enforces most of the codes does is Hunter out does he out on that depend if it's zoning or it's C okay it's C it's Hunter it's Zing if this since this would be a city code thing this would fall into the Community Service Officer no I'm not yeah I was going more measure a calc the lar standard provided by the refuge service I just leave it at that instead of is 95 instead of 90 I like yeah that's better what she said and take the health authority piece out of it Al together that is I think I was just the health authority were the health authority you serious I believe so cool who is we are I'm pretty sure the city council is considered the health authority okay another hand this isn't unrelated to this question it was about the cover the covering on dump like on the dumpsters do we have issues with other people coming to dump things and other people's dumpsters would are we hoping the cover will help with that we we have people that come and dump and we have people that come and take I think what we were trying to achieve with the the dumpster and the covering is especially when we have road restrictions on those dumpsters get full to the brim um and then the stuff is blowing out particularly on the developments so this will be a way for them to cover it and keep the the debris in the dumpster okay thank you for that twofold yeah that's great question and this was driven by the HOA was concerned about they conflict the current standards like we have to fix them we can't leave conflicting standards not want to get garbage can is you need a motion right I'll make the motion to approve what she said okay any a second Sarah Stephanie hasn't had a second yet you should give it to Stephie are you counting yes you haven't seconded anything yet you're right I have not okay any more discussion you got a letter all right and all those in favor say I I all those opposed say no motion carries 5 to zero and if there are no no objections will be adjourned we're adjourned e e e