for I'll call to order the December 3rd Parks Commission meeting um first line Pledge of Allegiance please stand to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for it One Nation God indivisible with liy and justice for all all right I'll entertain a motion to approve the agenda all motion second all in favor I I'll oppose same time right that passes uh next item consent agenda item we have here is to approve the minutes from both October 1st and November 4th meeting entertain a motion for that as well a motion I'll second all right all in favor say I hi hi all opposed all right open Forum anybody here or online to speak we're not online tonight because uh Zach didn't get it set up so we're just going to run it from here just us I don't have the techn technology ability to do that so we only knew somebody all right uh not online then we'll move on to the council update coun yeah thank you no major Council updates the council's been working primarily on the budget and I think we've got a budget number that we'll vote to finalize hopefully next meeting so okay thank councilman Ro uh staff update uh I have a couple of items uh LC Stevens master plan uh require for proposal document um is is ready um Zach has made some uh uh alterations to what I had in there um but that will be going out this week um and we're hoping to get something back to us by the end of December early January and then um have it contract award for febru early February there a tentative timeline it's a little bit tight but um I think we can make that work um I did have the mayor spoke to me about a couple of uh resent feedback items he's had several requests for full-size basketball courts instead of the half-sized basketball courts um around town and movable soccer goals in neighborhood parks um so we looking I'm looking into that those goals are a little bit more expensive than you would imagine they're about $33,000 AG go sense so that's that um Trails um I just wanted to give you an update on where we're at with the trails that we talked about earlier on in the year um the territorial Trail segment that uh is going to go and Link him with the Rush Creek uh trail that the Three Rivers Park District are developing um we have had an developer looking at the property that um right next to territorial Trails um developing something like that there was some high level uh conversation with him about if we he would be uh um willing to put in a trail along territory roal Trail as well as the one on East French Lake Road um he didn't say yes or no but um I think he's willing to consider it um even if he doesn't build it and we get the rideway there we can make that work and uh Three Rivers would uh be a participant in that as well but it's not on their schedule to 2026 I don't believe okay so that'll be a reimbursement um the trail from bar Lane down Vinewood and into Pine View Meadow um stantech have been uh talking with the county um to get their opinion on what we should do with the road crossing on North AR Lake Road and their opinion is that we should put it as far to the West as possible down there um and then uh we would have to have a a split Medan there kind of like we have on 129th just out from the roundabout uh they prefer that to putting in lights or um painted crosswalk and that type of thing so that's um where we're at with that there is um again they have some other projects coming up in their CIP that might impact that but you know moving along with what their recommendation is there okay uh Marty were they open to bump outs then second were they open to bump outs then for the crossing if they won't do lights or painted crosswalks they do bump outs like we did in front of the school cuz that makes a significant difference people slowing down I don't know what their policy is on that I would have to check it's a good question that we can ask them we need something more than a median for people to dodge to is what I'm trying to say like that's just it may be good enough for the county but it's I don't think it's good enough for us so but yeah I know but if their standard is run as quick as you can don't get hit like this isn't dodgeball like we got to take it more seriously yeah I I understand what you're saying mat and we will follow up on that at the moment they stand Standing is that those are what they want and that's what works best for them but I understand what and obviously we'll push to get whatever we can that's the safest cross in there possible okay that's all I have uh the resident feedback from the mayor yeah on the full basketball courts and the goals did he give any idea what parks no specifically no okay so it's not something that we're working on today no but okay it's something to consider for future Parks if we are having an open area um we may want to put some goals in there or you know think about putting in a full basketball court again you know we've had this conversation with numerous different residents and different communities like it and some don't some want a half basketball court with you know split across ways as well as long way you have two things going on there's several different ways of looking at this um so I think it will be by um each individual development and you know getting resident feedback like we have done with the area TR one park and H have the residents have their input there and use that to guide our our plans for sure um last question I have is then can we get a leather's park update I know there was going to be some work done at the end of the year here yeah um so they are going to mow it again and I think they've sprayed it they will be coming in in Spring to Reed the thing they'll probably spray it again before they they seed it again um but the spring is when they're they're looking at doing in it awesome um yeah they want to definitely spray all the crab grass out there because I see anything that came in from the last seed in for whatever reason no sunflowers no sunflowers no unfortunate but there you have it us residents have made sure that any volunteer sunflowers are taken care of by picking them there when there was there was a sunflower patch uh during Co there and the neighborhood just exploded with traffic so we all kind of like resent the sunflowers a little bit cuz cars were in our yards and cuz when we moved we saw that that was close to us and we went to go see it but it was 2022 and we're like oh no Sowers here what's going on so someone took some beautiful pictures and posted those un that's what it seemed to be was a big photo opportunity down there clearly yeah there was a window of time this fall where it did look nice you know the whatever was growing there was in its fall shades yeah and the neighbor across the street if you ever look his Big Field that's like that's the 10year plan or Vision that's what it could look like Joe Pas and Dex been working on his native Prairie for a long time and it looks really awesome nice anybody else have any questions for staff or Council have any other uh Parks been adopted I know I know one has sorry second have any parks been adopted other than the one that I adopted they have Lea's Park there's been a couple of inquiries um I haven't got anything finalized I had somebody from the Knights of Columbus reach out um to adopt uh one of the parks I think Brianna scur was one of those so I think currently there's four potentially done PSA 21 uh the park we discuss tonight has already been adopted by awesome somebody um waiting for it to be done so nice nice and then three others after that okay well once John's where has this been oh okay I did see that article yeah and I think um Dayton Heritage Foundation want to do LC Stevens Park as well oh wow cool guess if no one's adopted the park closest to us we'll have to look into that okay um next item on the list is Park Improvement project 24 25 design and development so I pulled the STA report together for this but Paul's going to do the presentation on here awesome thank you Paul for coming you bet it's good to see you most of you again I don't think Miss Chambers and I have met before hi Paul Kangas I am a Dayton resident but uh my company IA Inc has done uh significant Park planning for the city of Dayton over the last last few years uh we're here tonight to give you an update on uh next year's Park Improvement project which is three Parks we're going to talk uh tonight primarily about PSA 21 which we need a new name for but uh and then phase three of LC Stevens so um feel free to stop me as we go uh happy to answer questions as they come up um kind of a update slide here um a number of things have happened at l Stevens since this exhibit was first put together uh a few months back um The Bridge Project was uh isolated as a standalone project and bid most recently so we have a contractor uh on board to be able to implement that bridge this winter um and the you might ask why build something like that in the winter and and the reason is the Gully uh the wash that comes through this area uh is expected to not have much flow uh during the winter conditions and uh they'll be able to get in there and set that bridge and and get it all buttoned up before uh any spring flows happen um and they were actually enthused to have a project to work on uh throughout the winter months so we got some what I thought was pretty good pricing for that uh this other Bridge uh was never implemented uh if you recall that one was to be taken over by Three River Park District and they put in uh additional box covered Culvert as part of the road project so that trail connection will be a little bit closer to the roadway and tonight we want to touch briefly oh uh the irrigation project was bid as part of a five Park irrigation project all under one contract uh so LC Stevens was one of them roughly the area in blue so that is also under contract that will happen primarily next spring uh so there's two different contracts the wells 2 and a half Wells this park being the half uh and then uh the irrigation was bid separately because those are really two different contractors so you'll be seeing um some exciting things in the springtime uh phase three which is Loosely covered with these red and yellow blobs and we'll dive into the plans but the additional seating uh and Stage enhancements here uh decorative gate um which is a requirement of the agreement with henan County at the uh historic entrance here new signage matching the city standards at the new entry and then this entire area here so the parking lot is being proposed as an alternate so you'll see that priced separately uh and will be bid uh as an alternate so we can either accept it or not depending on how the bids come in and then the majority of the work happening uh up in this area for a picnic shelter I often joke that the drawings get less fun as we go so black and White's a little bit harder to read um and we're going to zoom in uh on this area in particular but these are kind of three project areas within LC Stevens Park so the B uh performance area here the white blocks are the existing Stone seating The Gray colored ones would be additional sea in um of course the existing stage is there uh we're proposing to make that larger with concrete out in front but this sidewalk which exists currently ramps down so we're going to need some steps and a little bit of wall to correct the grade in that area and one of the things that we really need good uh candid input on is your vision of the shelter of this area there's there been a lot of different ideas thrown about and I have some photos that we'll look at uh I think there's um a potential budget issue I think there's some flood plane issue I would really like uh to be able to go in front of the Council next time with firm guidelines from the park commission uh as to what your preferences are obviously everything is impacted by cost but aesthetically uh maintenance wise long-term use of this park we really need to have a better understanding of what that that element is uh when we when we look at I'll call it the West area which includes the parking and another picnic shelter I think the next page Zooms in there we go well first looking at uh the parking the roadway exists this is the roadway that crosses the Ravine so that's all in we're matching grades um all of this matches grade along this East Edge and and this being an alternate is primarily for those special days that we need more parking uh currently they use the uh the Open Fields over here so that would serve some of that uh we would expect this area to be popular obviously with the river Trails this area will be more and more popular so this extra parking is hopefully meeting uh what will be an attractive destination for people to visit when we zoom in closer to the picnic shelter area this is shown as a 24 34 shelter the photos in your packet uh show some different ideas but we have a small amount of parking primarily for handicap accessibility and kind of drop off uh we've kind of thought of this area as the rental space for summer family reunions um graduate parties small wedding parties things that would benefit from having a nice weatherproof shelter um a bunch of paved area around and then I also want to talk about some optional items that I think would be really nice uh maybe outside of budget constraints but we can always bid things as alternates so permanent Corn Hole uh outdoor fireplace SLG Grill how do we extend the life of this how do we make it more comfortable for September October April uh type of uh areas so if you look I apologize for the black and white but really it's a a U-shaped driveway oneway with angled parking uh um bumper stops here and then grade to this area and then it slopes back down towards the river so this wall would help hold up that grade you see steps on both sides and then these moan paths would be just moan uh grass pathways through the woods uh that is currently there and then trails to connect to the other Trails storm water is always important most of it happens here for this portion and then this Basin here would be enlarged to handle the storm water coming off of the the parking area and we're able to do all of that with only a little bit of underground pipe in a manhole here and ultimately dumping out into a basin that was constructed as part of phase two there's spot spot grades and some Dimensions that I've turned off and it looks like some of the spot grades are still on that's just me going through the design refinement process making sure that it works before we make uh any final adjustments for the bid pack when you look at the type of amenity um that is planned on top left is some ideas of what permanent cornhole boards look like um the only drawback to permanent cornhole boards is you got to bring your own bags right um I don't think we have a a little shelter or kiosk with bags in it necessarily because those are probably likely to to wander away into the Mississippi River but um you know is there an interest in something like that we did have sand volleyball at one time in this plan it's still possible it doesn't fit great without some additional tree removal so I've proposed that we look at something else you know you could do horseshoes not that many people play horse shoes um still don't sell horsse shoes though you'd still have to bring your own Hors shoes you'd have to bring your own bags correct um when you start to look at some of the amenity um so right now um the one quote in your packet is for something like this it's called a polygon that's the name brand shelter pre-engineered steel roof uh options for wood ceilings um um options for decorative stone accents on the post but this is what's what's proposed in the quote we can add anything you'd like of course there's a budget impact so I'm not necessarily advocating for the masonry it's really just showing what that difference might look like uh when you start to look at you know grills or seat walls or outdoor fireplaces you know I don't know how you feel about that I I I feel like this is a special Park and it would warrant that potential but I don't know if the dollars are available or if you're willing to spend the dollars to do something like that this is um at Diamond Point Park in buiji a really heavily used public park overlooking Lake buiji um we don't need the walls to hold up grills the grills can be freestanding but we might need the walls to seat walls Andor uh on either side of a fireplace if that's of interest if you want to play Devil's Advocate you might say well do we really want fire in our Parks who's going to supply the firewood blah blah blah there's lots of operational issues we don't have natural gas in this area we can't do a gas fireplace so um it's really just throwing it out there as you know a wh if scenario and if you love or hate the idea I want to hear it I'm definitely interested in the fire I like place but I'm I have the same questions that you just brought up of like yeah I mean if someone's renting it that could be an amenity if you're renting it in the fall it's like Happ been to you know Resorts where there's a community fireplace and they stock it but that's because they have workers there to do that yeah for for me just going there I if it was a thing I was planning on I could bring some wood but I would probably just have a fire at home not everyone has that opportunity hear in Dayton though right my concern is cost something like that versus taking a half basketball court and making it a full basketball court somewhere else when I'm looking at those grills and maybe we don't put the grills in but maybe that's like you said an alternate or a placeholder it's like ghost platted for later when an organization in town maybe wants to sponsor them and say hey we could you know sponsor these grills we can foot the bill and they get a little plaque next to it I'd wondered about that too for the fireplace or something else had a town or nearby cuz I think you one of the things you said is if they if we'd like to see them here and I think absolutely if not here then where but the budgets obviously that's less flexible than our ideas yeah I went to a wedding this fall it was a Cool October Thursday of all things Thursday evening wedding um cool gray day um ceremony was in their outdoor area and the reception was within the building but then outside uh the patio had an outdoor fireplace and that was part of a much larger Park in Spring Lake Park there was staff there it was controlled they probably could Harvest all the wood they needed right on that Park itself um probably could do that at LC Stevens too but there's a lot of trees that need to be cleaned up um DNR the outdoor grills I mean we did some of these at Hayden Hills but they're freestanding you know cast iron bring your own bag of charcoal they work fine um different Aesthetics certainly and sometimes we don't think big enough and then other people would accuse me of thinking you know without any U concern for the checkbook and that's definitely not the case I'm fully aware that whatever we propose has to be paid for so um but sometimes special Parks require special features so again I don't necessarily see the grills out of this picture but some type of accent Stone accent wall could be uh pretty spectacular I do think that yeah that or the like extra budget for the fireplace I don't know it thinking about something that brings people there versus like to me the structure of what's overneath the picnic tables doesn't need to be fancy with all of the I don't know construction terms but you know the fancy wood beams versus the one that's on the lower right here that's a little bit more simple yep um I would assume we could save a little bit there probably not quite enough to build a fireplace but I think you you're exactly right there I think what you know um staff what we we're looking at is building something that is a destination Park to bring people here it's a Prestige Park U with things that other Parks don't have so you know it's the more difference that we can bring to this if it's fire place like that or something else I think that's what we're looking at um and I think some of that is going to be reflected in the uh the RFP that we're going to send out is you again some fresh ideas of what this could look like um and what it's going to represent in this area bringing in different kinds of playgrounds that nobody else has in this area I think it's pleasing to the eye very aesthetically nice put together all three of those pictures at a diagonal my concern is an a estimate of a half milon to put something like that together but it is a premier Park so if we could get sponsors that would want to slap a plaque on there and say I donated this Grill and I donated this beam you know that would be a great idea is there um is there a way to bring the fires in a different way than just having one huge fire wall that costs a lot of money with all the brick um I was in Virginia rec recently at a wedding and the park where we were at actually had big cauldrons and then they had them dispersed and so then it wasn't just one fire I don't know what cauldron's cost but less than that outdoor fireplace right and that's what I was thinking so could you I mean if people want the fire could you still bring it and have it very unique was there like semi-permanent seating around each cauldron then or was it more okay cuz that's what I was curious about too is that would it feel more like I don't know camping spots if you just had like random it wasn't any I mean they were they were all in the same area I think I'd have to look I might have taken a picture of it cuz I was you have been to the river in recently M oh a restaurant in Hover they are doing small little I don't know what they're twoot diameter fire pits scatter a bunch of chairs around it that's movable seating but people gather and hang out while they're waiting for their table in the restaurant yeah it's it's it was more like yeah more like that and so I just wonder is that an option for here instead of putting in a huge fireplace it's Al brick I like the idea of if you you had some little little fire spots with seating and you've got this um parking that's kind of close by you could potentially I don't know have like a food truck come to that area and then people could buy food from the food truck and like sit in that area as like another yeah Donuts you could also do uh just standard fire pits either stone or iron um off of that area um any Campground that you go to you know has a fire ring at each site and it can have the swing aside grates for cooking what like um that would be a perent but relatively inex option the same thing I think wow okay cool huge tripod yeah so it's a yeah a tripod and then a hanging half circle half like the yeah with the Adera all of them kind of went off from the same center point so it was kind of like a little path cauldron little path cauldron but it had a center point and they just kind of went off that's so looking back at the plan you know the the curved wall feature would be right here if that's not obvious um so centered on the the park shelter you're looking straight out over the the river this is the existing little Overlook element that we put that's right close to the river so this is set back a little bit um so that's the view and the backdrop that would have you know it potentially a great backdrop for photos um Marty and I have discussed an alternate of bringing electrical to this location it's not listed in the spreadsheet but we need to add that in there and and there's power up closer to River Road at uh one of the existing poles we just we need to bring it here uh it would be foolish not to at least allow for that now you know get some conduit in there um because people want to bring crockpots to sound systems whatever you know there might be any number of things that need a couple outlets and it's super easy to put those into the the tubular steel that holds up the shelter so um we definitely need to factor that in there is a little bit of grade that we we need to make up one way or the other um so I just thought a nice stone wall as an option obviously it can be an alternate that if the dollars aren't there we'd say no but yeah I mean if we eliminated the that stone wall and maybe didn't have like a permanent cornhall area but instead had like kind of three you know fire areas or something like that MH that could that would probably be cheaper and and more people could use it which I think was another point that you were making too yeah the the permanent cornhole versus just somebody bringing their own set you know it's obviously much cheaper for whoever's renting it to bring their own um the reason permanent is popular in some locations is just the wear you know if everybody was playing in the same spot all the time eventually the turf does a wear out this has enough options around it I think that we could get by with just having people bring their own um the one thing I failed to mention here is we have a small little portapotty location right here right close to the drop off so the truck can maintain it have it be on a concrete pad with an enclosure um but important if this is going to be that higher end rental you got to have it are you thinking that permanent cornhole is the only element there as far as game wise or you thinking of some possible other again we talked about sand volleyball um I'm a little shying away from that just because of space and and grades um I'm open to ideas um what I'm not thinking like tetherball or anything like that but haven't seen anybody play te tetherball in my 55 years but what I was just curious to know if that was the only game element you were thinking of there or if you're were going to come up with two or three other things that about the Horseshoe you with the Horseshoe thing fit in here yeah horseshoe is basically the same mhm General Dimensions as cornhole um more people are likely to have cornhole bags though horses now it is an interesting tidbit my grandfather was a champion horseshoe thrower in South Dakota when I was a young kid so wow I actually know how to throw a horseshoe correctly so but I don't see them put in many parks so um all right but it I'm I'm open to ideas there's a little bit of space you know this area is currently wooded we we're going to have to do a little bit of clearing to make room for the shelter but it's not so heavily wooded that we can't you know clear out a little more room I like the idea of a couple different PODS of fire potentially um and we have cleared a bunch of trees out in there um last winter and this early spring so we don't have enough room for a clay boty ball court not familiar with the dimensions on that but there's probably enough room it's a little bit bigger than a sand volleyball court oh bowling maybe not a full SI okay put that at Brits once I'm a real grass B you Ball P rolls too quickly on the other stuff all right yeah I think it's important to think of this as a premier Park I mean it's got the million dollar views the only thing I was wondering about too if if this is kind of a place that you're renting out for birthday parties graduations family get togethers whatever how close is this to the playground or something that would be a little bit more kid-friendly so that's phase four or Beyond and probably part of the master planning effort that Marty was talking about when you look at the larger Park plan um this area was originally master plan for a Destination type playground um we haven't implemented anything in this area primarily because of the proximity to River Hills the neighborhood doesn't need it but uh if it is the Premier Park you know it's been Loosely discussed as potential water park location at one time somebody brought that up but you know think of a a really high-end all accessible something like Three Rivers Park might do and where are we talking about with the like the fire pits and stuff like that what that would yellow circle okay thank you area yeah so this is really so not not terrible yeah no I mean distance wise this is probably grandma or someone will go with them it's not like right hiking across a long way yeah okay on the portapotty and this is maybe not really part of this plan but I think it'd be important it probably has to be handicapped for some ada8 compliance but to have a changing station too goes a long way to have somewhere to actually change your kid that's where the picnic tables are for under the shelter that works too um weather you know isn't always conducive people are eating there they might not appreciate it depending on the nature of the changing you're doing speaking as a parent who's been in a lot of bathrooms that don't have that I'd love to be uh involved in a park decision where we try to back to that in it does need to be an ADA uh accessible and I don't know if that means it has a changing flip down thing I don't know P potty protocol I think they there's some that have them I mean it's just a piece of plastic that flips down with a strap that keeps your kid off of the ground or where the food is so is there another bathroom in this park or is this the only there's currently two bathrooms over on the other side of the Ravine by that small parking there a handicap one and regular one so this is the the small little parking area on the existing we can we can certainly add more in there as we need them mhm okay I just wanted to make sure for a huge what's the nice thing about the P parties is you can you can expand for an event for Heritage day or whatever they can bring 10 more down yeah and then yeah that's what we we done when we've had events down there we just bring more P potties in there and that's a location There is close enough to the state at at some point a premier Park maybe doesn't have a plastic Biffy and has like an actual structure um obviously there's there's uh considerations cost and and maintenance and all that but we could make this a vault toilet but and hey I'm a big fan ofal issues we don't have water there which you know sure Fair yeah yeah for for this phase maybe I'm thinking a little far ahead but again we keep talking Premier park with million dollar views and then putting in a Biffy and then happens with that building in there as well sure that might be where that but it might not be where it might not be the only place we want bathrooms either it's kind of a multiart park so that's a good point but a port potty obviously is a great start because it's very po well that's what I was wondering and we don't have to know exactly where it needs to be because if we want people to run it for a wedding like and then you have a porta potty bring one of those trailers yeah you can always bring the venue I got married at had is a y Fancy P potty trailer thing wow but a building is preferable if we want it to be like a premier wedding sort of destination obviously weddings are occurring there now so it's not a showstopper so I think you should think about uh so keep in mind that the city is going to have multiple event centers one of which the goal is to be the premier wedding destination for the state of Minnesota so yeah I thought right after I it it might be worth thinking about just kind of what you want to get out of this park and if the weddings are the primary thing you're shooting for if they're more a side product what's already happening what is that place called again uh Hill the one that's going to be the premier oh Thicket Hills venue Hill all right onward so back to the earlier comment about uh candid feedback for the stage area uh the lower right we're not proposing a pool here uh but this was as good a photo as I could find of the type of um fabric tensil structure that would protect the current stage area this is what I've always thought is most likely this image was shown to you and the council as something that was more substantial primarily with how the uh the metal framing system works as opposed to just some cables holding a a piece of tensil fabric um one of the things that we have to be fully aware of is right at the back of this current stage so this roughly rectangular space is the current stage that elevation is the actual 100-year flood elevation but uphill of that is 500 year and you know we we cannot guarantee and in fact I would say it's very likely that this area will flood occasionally so when we talk about what type of structure should it be it has to be flood resistant there's no such thing as flood proof but when you look at what this photo illustrates three or four reinforced steel columns with great big footings this is as flood resistant as we can make it an actual building any type of wood construction is not going to function very well in a 500e flood is there something about that upper structure aside from the brick behind it that would make it less flood flood resistant resistant could it be a more elegant metal structure on top and still be just as flood resistant it could be okay I was just going to say yeah speaking as a musician I feel like you definitely need some sort of Arc and way to project the sound outward or you're going to have a bad time trying to put on concerts there right and that's been talked about and what what I keep going back to is there's a there's a discrepancy between what some people have talked about versus the dollars that are currently allocated you know if we have 1.5 million to do this entire project then we can look at all kinds of options but we don't have that so with the budget that I've been working within something like this is much more realistic I do not want to propose any type of cheap wood structure that would not have flood resistance that wouldn't look you know to me this is kind of elegant in its Simplicity right I think this is better you know certainly from a mician uh a musician standpoint but we may have to be willing to put you know temporary panels behind to project that sound obviously speaker placement and the the AV system is important for that as well um and I think one of the things that we got remember with this kind of structure where it is is the view to the river will be blocked off if we drop something down there that's not movable to project the sound so it's kind of getting that balance right are those sails L sun shades for that are they waterproof cuz the two things that we heard was we need something to keep the sun off the musicians backs when they're playing and we need something so if it rains that doesn't run electrical equipment that the musicians bring below it yep so there's two different types of fabrics one is shade only and the other is uh weather resistant waterproof um the waterproof fabric is heavier slightly more expensive little bit different um mechanism to hold it up um but I was suggesting that it would be the the waterproof version uh this will not keep the sun off of the music's faces because they are looking South yeah what's the light you think this thing is at an angle like this the musicians are playing out that way it's going to be for the the rain and a little bit of a a backdrop but it's not going to it's not going to shade any of the the people attending the concert and the musicians themselves but most of the bigger events are afternoon evening types or a little bit less of an issue from a sun standpoint um the little ston wall would be something like this just Limestone Drive L it's only a couple feet tall and then this is a picture of what's out there today so we'd be matching this with the additional seating uh this is as green as I've ever seen the grass there but part of the reason we're adding irrigation cuz the sod has done poorly in this area what's the lifespan of that sale what's that what's the lifespan of that sale if we do waterproof and all that are we going to get five years out of it 10 years out of it 10 years is the warranty um 10 to 15 12 12 is kind of what I was told was the lifespan to be honest I'm not really seeing the benefits of this sale versus buying just a really nice um like one of those tent cover thingies that you set up that would basically cover the the musicians it depends on the size of the band that you have I guess I mean they make pretty big ones we there's big ones for that Riverfest over the Central Park yeah cuz then it wouldn't cuz I don't know I this is obviously just a personal opinion but I don't really think that it's very like lovely to look at um and so I don't know I I feel like instead of having like a permanent something there maybe just bringing something out when you have performances might make more sense if you're not going to do like a really nice Band Shell it's a valid comment because we're looking at is it 80,000 yeah is 80 like more like that bottom sale or the top sale more like the bottom okay 80 grand can I save us 80 and a lot of that cost is in u the post Paul do you know sorry do you know how much Champlin spent on their Bandshell I know it's significantly differ than this but it's millions of dollars I have to imagine yeah so I'm trying to find good talking millions of dollarars kind of just like a wood struct not wood that's wood up top I think big beam I mean it's been obvious to me as we've gone through this process I'm not sure that it's obvious to everyone that's made comments this is a a couple times a year type of event right so so far a really nice tent that you guys buy for 15 grand and put up two or five times a year that might actually provide better shade as well for the musicians depending on what the tent might look I appreciate that comment the outside the box thinking because you know sometimes we get focused in on on the different ideas we've we've shown a lot of different pictures we've had a lot of different conversations in this room both with parks and Council and and there's always been that disconnect between what's possible and what we can afford so um I'm in a tough spot as a consultant because ultimately I'm not paying for it but I I'm uh Dayton resident and I want to make good use of the dollars that we're allocating towards it so what's the upper shell cost guesstimate that's probably a half well just for the the canopy just for the canopy skip the block bre yeah 150 to 200 still not bad again a lot of it's in the post and the footings the fabric itself is relatively inexpensive I mean the difference part of the reason for that photo you know the lights being held up there the backdrop that's a bigger stage than even the The increased option that we're looking at for for LC Stevens you know this area here is is probably 50% bigger than the the revised location and then I don't know if someone wealthy comes along and says say hey I really want to put a pans shell in there and they want to pay for it sometime they can the other shelter I mean this was from polygon it's a very simple computer generated but really it's the the ceiling being Wood versus Metal there is a cost to that but it it definitely is a different aesthetic that I would encourage us to consider um it's an easy alternate we've done shelters like this at Hayden at River Hills uh Sundance Sundance yeah play ground that I think just changing the roof from Blue to something else would go a long ways and I mean just looking at a super zoomed in picture of Champlain's it's like yeah steel and these thick engineered posts like it you know kind of that almost like industrial but looks like it's going to be probably pretty Outdoors resistant and not terribly expensive that bank appears to be higher to and like yeah I'm not saying we can do everything they can do but the style of it but the quotation that's in your packet does reflect the most expensive um option without any type of um masonry accents or whatever but it had the wood and the the better Roofing you know shingles got to be replaced they don't look that great so metal roofing especially where you have the trees and the waters okay I was going to ask about that cuz in the one it wasn't a good Apples to Apples picture but the the one with the shingles looks a lot nicer but I think it's not just the shingles drawing me to it right it's the it's the framing it's the masonry and that it's not a a Blue Roof in the middle of the playground any other thoughts or comments on elsc is it a no to the the cornhole or something you want to explore other options I got two cornhole things that I sit in my shed you know and get pulled out once every two years when somebody needs to borrow one like I just that's just me though you know I'm other people seem to have interest in it so I'm kind of biting my tongue but at the same time I'm not personally super passionate about it one way or another I think mostly about like places to gather and making it convenient for people to gather is is really nice and in this area and and if they come they're and they want to play cornhole if they're the people who like to play cornhole they probably own cornhole and would pack it in the car and bring it things that would get me here I know it's faces down the road but a playground honestly if it was a really cool playground I would be here two times three times a week once my kids are like I want to go to that whatever playground they remember it by and in the fall honestly too like having a having a nice place to go sit and enjoy the Fall colors by a fire pit or something would be pretty neat to along the river yeah I want to try to embrace the cold yeah I do think that we I mean I understand about the playground that's what I always wanted in a park also for many years but there's a lot of our population that is pre kids and prea and so we got to make sure that we have activities for them too MH so one of the things that was really popular with the teens early 20s was hammocking they were having hammocking get togethers where you bring your own portable hammock there's all sorts of trees so you can spring a hammock between um in Parks without significant trees we've started putting in these uh concrete footed um steel posts you can string a hammock through easy um do those posts get used they do okay yeah cost a couple thousand bucks for a pair of them not bad um again we don't need them here because there's lots of trees but you know yeah the trees give you that shade to me with a couple hammocks I I wouldn't want to be out in the open but again I'm only speaking for myself I've also seen areas down in the Cities Minneapolis where there was so much hammocking I mean that'd be maybe a good problem for us to have that there was so much use they had to say don't hammock in this area um I've seen signs before to of like uh don't stack more than yeah there's a stacking and then they also technically they have an ordinance on height you stra to the tree again we're not we're not close to there I would it' be a good problem to have if we our Parks were getting that much traffic honestly um but that's me just thinking as my tree lover well I got very very startled one time that I was doing a site inspection at LC Stevens during the phase one cuz I there was nobody parked um up top and I walked over the hill and all of a sudden there was a guy on a Fat Tire Bike and a hammock that he had strung up so he was enjoying the the r rolling past and you know again that million dollar view mhm so just maybe I'll just add just as a thought or something you all to think about is that this this park is a premier Park and I know we often say or we hear this Park's never going to get finished before I die I hear that a lot like i' love to see it get finished before I die it's never going to finished before I die the question I would ask is you know we're on a budget is it better to do fewer things but do them really well or is it better to do more things and do them open okay just to get it done and I don't have a preference one way or the other candidly this isn't me trying to guide you one way or the other it's just as I hear you guys talk it's this is all great and that looks great and this looks great but we want to do all these things and I can tell you it's not all going to fit in the budget I don't know what the budget is but looking at the numbers here some chance of EV footing I think are going to be kind of low and so um I think it'd be good maybe for Mary and Paul as they bring forth your thoughts on this to understand what's more important to you to get more things done or to get fewer things done get them done right and then just take longer to get everything done at a I say right a higher quality is probably the correct term right's the wrong term but a higher quality I appreciate that outside of the box thinking it also relates to even though we might have as an example not a set price a million dollars set for area 21 doesn't mean we can't take half a million dollars out of 21 put it towards LC Stevens then as 21 builds Out start shuffling funds again and put more money back into that you are somewhat limited because the city pass the city council passed something that says 75% of the funds gained from the neighborhood have to go back to that neighborhood only 25% go to the the larger Park so you are limited in pulling money out of one fund it'd be different if knew the funds were coming in but if we're lotting X am of funds be used for a park we can't shift it to a different Park in some in that in your to get beyond that percentage correct we have to hold the percentage is true but yes that we could do but I just it's a new thing that passes to make sure you're working I think there's another level to that question right I think things that can easily be added in the future require a different perspective if you are going to do a park shelter and you're going to do one every 50 years or you know you should do it right because you're never going to do it better anytime in the near future right so so you have to think about the lifespan of some of the stuff and and the value to the overall Park um you know doing permanent cornhole is not a huge number but it's very easily added somewhere down the line but are you really going to tear up a part of the park to do it probably not is that money better spent in doing a nice wall that's going to be there you know think of the WPA projects that are still in existence right you know cuz they were done well with the right materials and they last you know 100 years or 80 to 100 years um that's not the the life expectancy that we think about all things Park you know you don't expect an asphalt parking lot to last 80 years but there's maintenance involved but certain things that you're going to do are going to be there for a long time and I think they do warrant in a premere park a little bit higher level of design quality materials I'm you know this is okay right it's not great besides the blue I'm completely fine with something like that I I agree I think I could just put a a muted red or green or something instead maybe it would be a little better I don't know right we're talking about like kind of the ultimate picnic area this isn't where that long-term structure was planned to be is it the Event Center no that's over on the other side I see I see value in kind of to what you said Pol iterating or what what can we get value in now but you know get usefulness out of the park maybe it's not we don't know what we want to do for forever but if we start with a tent and it gets used for a lot of weddings we know that's that's a hot hot thing or maybe not as many weddings cuz there's another venue in town I don't know we could we could sit and find the perfect structure but we might not figure that out for a couple years and that's a couple years of having no structure there and that's kind of frustrating too so I guess would you forgo the fire place for an actual decent band shelter that fire that fireplace yeah I I I don't I don't think that would make sense here if we had money extra money to spend I'd say yeah that's cool throw that in but if we had to choose one or the other would you push the money towards the shelter since we use that a couple times a year I guess half shell just the metal piece that we were looking at that he guesstimated 150 to 200 if I had to pick one of the other I would say the band shelters I know a lot of other folks and are much more interested in invested in that in that idea yeah I don't think that the fireplace would make more sense than that at all and I I would say that um the idea is to promote this park we would probably have more than two concerts there a year I think we need the infrastructure there yeah we need to get the infrastructure there and then we can start promoting it and maybe having concert every month or every two weeks different types of things there um I think it's a good plan place for that that's a really important consideration is programming operationally how often is this being used you know if it's two times a year to me that's a different need than every two weeks or something what is summer 30 weeks 26 weeks long you know so 12 to 13 events a year is a different answer than right than twice a year similarly a picnic shelter that can be rented every weekend you know for weddings or get togethers or whatever and it's it's not going to happen immediately people don't know that it's there right so there's you know it's rented four times the first summer and eight times the next summer and you know and I and I think one of the other things to consider and we talked about it before Park commission is we want to use this park as many times a year as we possibly can expand a life out of it so I think the fire thing is going to be you key to having that happen um um and we've talk about having some uh CrossCountry skiing course there so that would fit into this as well so you got somewhere to go on and warm up off to ski that kind of thing to be clear I think fires there is an awesome idea I think that fire pit over that Band Shell I picked that Band Shell that was specifically that's was going if that were the two options in front of me I would pick that I would say fire pits getting those in sooner is probably more affordable and maybe more useful but it's probably not going to happen this season either so I don't know so make sure I'm hearing what I think I'm hearing um you know a little ring of uh nice gravel surfacing with a a permanent fire pit in the middle and then some Adder on deck or whatever maybe some ader on decks or you know some simple benches or something um might be desired and a lot cheaper than a fireplace I think lots of people would mhm go for that and that's yeah like all all ages kids no kids whatever like people will and having multiple are fun because you get little PODS of people and more surface area for warmth and so what about um an actual stone seat wall not not the grills in front but like this element if I told you that that's going to cost $115,000 to to have that right here is that worth it or not and that's not needed for grading or anything that correct I I need to make up some grade but it just becomes a a steeper slope and okay but it's not a a structural wall or something so if we're going to have I mean just to answer your question I get the wall if if you need it for seating but if we're going to have separate pods with seating around them with fires then I don't think we need the extra seating so you could save on your money of putting in a very nice seated wall so seat walls being you know 18 to 20 in tall would be a place that you could set because you also have your shelter and aren't there going to be picnic tables or benches or something underneath your shelter and so it's right there so I just don't think it's needed if you're going to be having the fire and a shelter because you're going to have seating it at least not initially well this is this is one of those things that you'll never put it back in okay so you either do it now or you don't all right and I'll I think it goes well with the grills to me it's like I have my girls in a nice big counter space but if the girls weren't there I I would very easily be able to live without it I think agree so if we're talking about not having the girls there anyway I'd say that feels like 15 grand that could be saved agreed so four nothing you might be able to tell what my opinion is I think it's important um from an informal seating area but I've done a lot of work in corporate plazas and things where you know you're having 50 to 100 person corporate meet and greets and you know these are these are important for like the larger experience but um so to not have to feel like you have to sit at a table but just a place you can lean against as you're chatting or whatever I've been wrong many times before so four nothing vote um I just I mean again we're working by the budget and I think that people will want the fires more than a SE seated wall right and so that's I mean that's why I think it looks great too I love them but yeah I think it's just part of that level of finish when you think Premiere Park you know we're not doing that fancy of a picnic shelter um and I'm I'm guessing at the number based on you know how long I know it is and similar projects but um the one thing I forgot to mention so these kind of semi- rectangular areas that's showing a little bit of a bmed landscape area so that'll be a buffer between the parking and you basically walk through those to get to the larger area and it's just kind of a a chance to get some ornamental trees and some Boulders and some things in there add sure some interest make it a little nicer space all right other questions or comments I've got a question this might be more for councilman tro does the council have more of a an opinion or a general feeling on whether they'd like to take their time and do this park the right way you know like we're going to we're going to invest it's going to take longer to have things that we can use or is there more value to the council in having something that that could be used like next summer for events even if it's not polished or maybe the forever vision is that an easy question to answer or no so you're asking me to speak a loaded question it's loaded you're asking me to speak for five people I would say I often hear that's why I had the comment of sure I'm never going to see this done in my lifetime y right which I think a is whether it's done in my lifetime or not I'd rather have it me Matt personally I'd rather have it take more time but be something that's going to stand the test of time and is going to drive people to the park that's my opinion I don't know where the rest of the council sits I bet you it's fairly split on that item if you were to ask them which is why it's a hard question to answer because I think there are some people who are they just want to get done over with and well I think that's great too because it'll get used more if we get stuff in there I also I look at you know Champlin didn't just overnight put that I'm going to call it an amazing setup they have down by the river there with the nice and the community center and that's what we have plans for and we're trying to do it but it feels like we're a little ahead of ourselves on some of that stuff just because like we're not there yet well those numbers don't match up with that exactly yeah I mean they're spending millions of dollars on something like that we're trying to get the same thing for under we've got champagne taste on you know fake wine budgets so like you know it just it doesn't work that way and so we have to be mindful of that so if if you ask me I'd rather do less item but do them really well sure I also I mean you have to keep mind to when you look at you know the community as a whole you look at the survey results the survey results show we're in a unique situation in our city where I think it was I want to get it wrong but you can correct me if you know I think it was like 60% of people don't live paycheck to paycheck in our city which was interesting to me cuz he had said it's usually the opposite 60% do and 40% don't and we're 60% out and 40% do and it it's somewhat fitting you look at the new houses that are built the one right down the street for me very near this park just sold for almost a million dollars so again if you're trying to draw people in to this park you have to look at you know that's on everybody and I get that I respect that too but you know there's a a how do you want to do it what do you want that to look like and how does that compareed to the expectations Zach said it at the a couple times at the survey results is that the expectations that people have when they move into the city are of of what they get from the city are higher than what they're getting from the city currently how how do we how how is Zach able to get a pulse on those expectations how can like this the survey doesn't really capture that CU it's more generic but like is that feedback that somehow could be you know how how could we get that feedback too you know what I mean like what are some examples of things like I moved here and you guys don't have a single this thing like that sort of information if I think you got some tonight full basketball courts versus half basketball courts that's a great the same with the the the soccer and that's like they're just going to come to us as people step forward and speak up and say this is what they want but I thought maybe there was more of like a a a one of those box a complaint box that we can go through no I mean I mean I will say and I'll speak on behalf of mar he can speak staff takes the feedback that City that people give them very seriously whe it's email or they Comm ask questions but he's I mean Zach when he says that's trying to generalize to the large say what about this and what about that why we have this and I mean I think you see it just you guys are seeing it too with the PSA 21 when people that were here and they want a lot of things there right in that park right I love seeing that and that's why I want that input elsewhere where maybe maybe the residents aren't aware or don't have the time or are just for whatever reason they aren't maybe here giving me that where can I go to find that feedback if it is being so there are things maybe and I don't know if it's a too soon but like Marty when we do the Holly date and maybe we can set up a little if someone wants to man it a little tell us more what you want to see in your parks for the winter kind of Booth you guys sit at and we throw a little tent and you can sit there and talk to people right so there's opportunities I think to engage with the public and get that feedback if if you're looking for more than what you've already got I don't have a silver bullet answer that's just a quick off-the-cuff idea well the reason I asked my load of question is really that I've I've even seen sometimes in a council meeting where like we give a recommendation but if we're not really recommending in line with like the overall Vision which not not that it's always overall or or in agreement necessarily but if councils has these things that are important and we're not really recommending toward that then we're kind of wasting time and we could just talk about other things so I just want to make sure like if there is a consensus which it sounds like there isn't necessarily and that's fine too but if there was a consensus I'd want to be aware of that so I can I think if you put all the money towards the Bandshell no one would complain sure that would be that would be the one item I think you could put a lot of money in and you get a lot of Buy in from the council cuz for some reason there is this passion for amongst people on the council for a band show um and I've been to the events we've had down there and when we've had music and so you know I have a different opinion but um mine's not everyone's opinion which is why I said it's a very loaded question because I think depend on who you ask that question you get a completely different answer sure yeah I mean if if if you guys feel the Band Shell is a place to do it and you want to spend all the money on the Band Shell you know then that's something you can recommend I would say you should make a you look at what's on here we've been talking about Stevens for a while and I'll stop talking soon is um recommendations for this is what these are like the three things we for sure want to see in LC Stevens and then whatever else can fit is great however you want to make a recommendation but I would I would say you should give Marty and Paul something concrete that everyone agrees on or most of you majority of you agree on is like what you want the council to take step on because I think it's easier for them to then say yeah atate those few things yeah I would Echo that it's for certain a divided Council because I caught a lot of flak for not being able to meet a project in 2024 and part of the reasons we couldn't meet the project in 2024 was because we didn't have some firm answers about some of the issues that we're talking about if you want to put all the money to the Bandell you got to tell me tonight you know or at least have that be the recommendation because we're spending a lot of time and effort designing things that if they're not part of a bid pack that you want out in March I need to know right it's not that these other designs are bad obviously we want to do it all it's just like right councilman Matt said where do we put the money today to get the most bang for our buck even though we see maybe two or three bands down there today however attended if we build something like this more of a draw maybe some local musicians are hey it's Wednesday night let's go play out at the park maybe we'll get people maybe we won't which is why I was saying before that I mean yeah if we're going to invest any sort of money in the Band Shell I think it should be a Band Shell versus the kite sorry what said kite the sale the kite yes so I looks like a good Consultants aren't generally in the business of turning down work but I raised the question to Marty and I think to Zach about why are we doing um an RFP for a master plan of Stevens Park when we're still designing Stevens Park you know I tried to talk people into not doing this but the message we got from the council was we got to get the bansel done we need to we need to see progress my fear is that the Limited opport unities left in LC Stevens Park when you start doing a an RFP for master planning well what are we Master planning you know the the Event Center is one of uh The Event Center is the biggest part of that so I'm I'm moving forward with what I was instructed to do um but if we need to adjust we need to know it now so if we were to do the band shall in this nice way does that really take up the entire budget meaning then we could not have any sort of picnic space like even just the shelter and the and the um picnic tables for example so when we look at the overall budget um get to the right page we need to do the park entrance sign we need to do the gate uh the expanded performance stage and seating area is 100 80 of the total uh the general costs are there regardless um so the picnic shelter currently around 350 but that does include the seat wall and fireplace and some of that other stuff so call it 275 uh and then the alternate for the west parking area is another 145 um you could take all the money from the parking lot and put to the Bandshell and that would give a very nice Bandell but again we're still in the floodway so whatever we put in there has to be willing to be wet once in a while um and we can't move it up the hill that that ship is sailed so um why can't we move it up the hill you already have the power and the stage and everything there the the seating you'd have to move it up the hill a long ways to get out the 500 year flood yeah and then you'd have to move all the stone blocks and all that stuff as well so let take a poll everybody's thoughts on prioritizing The Band Shell maybe skipping the parking lot well I'm in the minority I don't think that all the money should go on the Band Shell the band what wrong with that shell is great but if you really want to get people there you got to have other things I don't think you're in the minority actually I I don't think so either I just I'm trying to also think about how my recommendation can be most valuable like okay if if the bansel is what the the people who are decid that are going to want to prioritize then how can I make my opinion part of that decision so we're talking about the flood zone for the Band Shell but we have other things on the other side is that not part topography the Topography is quite a bit different on that side versus okay I was just curious if we needed to be worrying about that with the shelter and anything that we put down there no okay we didn't talk about this other little viewport here Marty asked me where down by the um the river access could we put some small picnic shelters thinking that the kayakers canist might want someplace to have a lunch or whatever so I just did a real quick sketch showing a couple different areas this one's a 16 by 24 and this one's only a 12 by6 uh so this is really just a single picnic table type of structure this one you probably get two picnic tables under it um but those are right off of the existing asphalt Loop Drive this is the trail that exists and then your river access I think is coming right off of here somewhere right I think it comes through the parking up there yeah so yeah I love that I think that's a great but that's not part of what we B now Mar thought that those funds were come for some grants so and for those uh picnic shelters whichever way we go um it'll be part of the water Trails project we've got some additional funds once we got that designed so I wanted to incorporate something like that into that design to use up those funds rather than giving them back to the government yeah yeah I think that that's great I going back to the other conversation I'm concerned about the fact that there's no parking this park I don't me I don't understand why we keep talking about the parking lot as being an alternative because if I don't have a place to park I'm not going if it's that simple so do you any reason and there's like no parking here and quite honestly even when you have a function like we rented out the park above what's that one called clo thanks just in this moment I couldn't think of it and you know we had to have people park down at LC Stevens and walk up that huge hill because we don't have a ton of parking there either so it's not like if we have an event here we can say go park at clo kit and so and you need to staff the grass parking or it just doesn't right you know staff it or sign it well cuz when I've been to events there it's been a little chaotic it's been fine but there's usually people go in the direction they're not meant to be going just cuz you don't know what to do it's not normally a parking lot so I don't disagree I think parking and the only reason that it was put in as an alternate was because it was in the original uh spec for this park and we were getting good pricing on black top so we decided that we would you know put it in here as an altern see what we could get for pricing on it I don't disagree with you um it would be great to have that I think it's what way better than parking in the field um and especially if we're you know going to be trying to promote bigger um um events there by putting in a band showell I think you're going to need to park it well so long term the master plan that was done in 2016 thereabouts M the event center and then quite a bit of additional parking in the area that the the grass parking is currently so long term that would be the parking that would be best suited for the performance area this parking would be well suited for events here and whatever ends up happening in here and in the short term would be you'd have usable to get to the the bansel but it's a little bit far away if you really want to be candid about it you know for for an event down here this isn't where you want the parking but this is where the parking can go now and not screw not much further than you might end up parking anyway is over there as well what the main entrance is going to be corre there as well so it's there it's a little bit of a walk and usually the vendors are set up there so you're you're a little closer to River Road where you're parking anyway and you know it's to be on a on an intentional spot with a paved path I think is valuable but for any future res that says why the heck would you build parking there when your events are being held here well there's very good reasons why have yeah it's it's guarding against because we don't want to ra scre something up that can't be moved later and that's why we developed the master plan initially so you we didn't put stuff in where it's going to be torn up you know 5 years later we wanted to have a good plan of where things can go and that's why we need to update the the master plan now because we got a certain amount of stuff in there and we need to reimagine you know what else is going to go in there whether will be an event center or something different right because that's what I was going to say I thought we had decided that an event center we didn't need there's enough in need yeah so I don't want to put opinion into everything is split everywh well like we were talking about the Band Shell there's nothing to say that we can't tell the council or Marty and say Hey you know that yellow circled area is really where we like to prioritize we understand that the council some might want to see the Bandshell but we'd like to see the alternative parking we'd like to see a little bit better of a picnic shelter you know something more eye appealing and some fire cauldrons with seating but seating as swings just throw that out there yeah know swings kids like swings what about one of those bull things that you string B it I was just thinking swings okay a little bit safer maybe maybe well that is my opinion I would rather put something more into it yellow circle I would agree okay Dave I want to put you on the spot because it was a comment that made red flag swap when you say a better picnic shelter what does that mean so instead of the Blue Roof we're looking at the sky here something more aesthetically pleasing like the archway and the block work yeah because if it's Premiere it needs to look focus on that yes Matt need to look like it needs to look nicer yeah if it's Premiere I'm fine with that I think yeah looking more premere if we and I don't think we would then need the like we've already said we don't really need the the stone bench thing the KNE wall kind of thing that that wall cuz if it's just more opened up to like some right Pathways of little areas okay thanks for clarifying that and then the fire pits I think all fourway yep those are easy to find a home for it's just placing them in the correct spot so yeah right yep okay I think yeah prioritizing that makes sense for now especially because yeah if we're just going to put all of our money in the Band Shell and only that and not have a ton of parking available yet and not having a ton of events there yet it I don't know it doesn't make sense to me personally I think this meets the beginning of a real draw to bring people there and it gives us parking and it's a staged kind of process as the city's planned for years now but this is going to be a first draw at it yeah council member tro to put you on the spot how do you think the council will respond to that recommendation not well that' be my gu I think you're going to have some people that are going to be very adamant that we need a van shell down there that's what i' say but I don't get to vote on it so it won't matter I I'm assuming I won't get to vote on it won't come in this year it'll come in next year yeah so yeah my my opinion will weigh less than it does now but you have two new people and I don't know what they're going to think yeah and that's the that's the Catch 22 I mean I'm but the but aren't we supposed to do I mean we're supposed to recommend what we think not what we think they want four very different people who have all come to the same conclusion so that's got to count for something and we' spend considerable amount of time on this here tonight talking about thoughts and ideas you and so I would I mean they don't have to go by our recommendation but I would hope that they would at least consider it otherwise there's no purpose for us true I mean I'm just I was on the Planning Commission for 10 plus years I hear you okay anything else from us son uh all right you want to move to please park service area 21 TBD Tob name something else also known as something else um again the drawings get less pretty as we go um what you're seeing is a slightly revised layout based on the feedback that we got through the last round um a big part of this park uh remember is that there is additional land coming from the south it it's excluded from the viewport here but um when you look at the the future of the overall Park there's another roughly twice as much land that'll be gained here one of the comments was that we need more parking so this parking lot coming off of the roadway in braburn East would be duplicated down below but that's all phase two we we don't own that land we can't put a park on it so phase one is this rectangle you see here it includes an open play area this is a full-size soccer Court just for scale so roughly 250 by 350 uh of open play uh a double pickle ball court reasonably close to the parking lot uh a full basketball court with four goals so there's goals at the midpoint on the long size and then your standard uh goals on the end this one does have a sand volleyball court a little bit further away here but close to both the basketball and the playground area uh there is um permanent cornhole shown but that was certainly a question for tonight this is a smaller shelter 16x 16 shelter in Li of the 24x 24 that we used in Hayden so if you spent time walking around Hayden visiting Hayden it's a nice shelter I think it probably was a little bigger than it needed to be for that location often I'm there all the time and yeah so I thought it made sense to kind of reduce the footprint of that shelter it's still a really nice seating area of the Sun but picnic tables and and opportunities for benches and grills around here but just a little bit smaller sh sure uh one of the optional features is this double line here that has a Gateway through a sidewalk entry that's a potential seat wall it would definitely be an alternate but by doing that we'd have a bunch of north-facing sun aty back type of informal seating uh and then I see this being kind of a bmed landscape area kind of it's a buffer right it's some ornamental trees and some shrub and perennial plantings that protect it from the basketball court and kind the age difference that you see between basketball and play so uh is it required from a grade standpoint nope um is it necessary if the dollars aren't there nope so it's just an option um and then uh the trails some of which are in some of which would be new connecting we we still have a loop in phase one through this East West connection but ultimately there'd be an even bigger Loop all the way around sure so the difference in this park site to some of the past most recent when you start to look at budget parking was not part of the most recent parks that we've done um we haven't done a full siiz basketball court sand volleyball is cheap that's a minimal impact you know it's a 105,000 uh element and this park is uh quite large so Landscaping is coming in I think I saw over $100,000 with trees and and turf that's one area that can be value engineered relatively quickly uh Marty and his able-bodied crew would love to plant a bunch of bar R trees I'm certain I'm still in a community engagement you know an Arbor Day event next year yes know where we get grants for that too I love planting trees barro trees um and there's been lots of studies done that Barret trees actually are better longterm than bald and burlap that you pay a lot more for it just as long as you put them in yes correct yep you're preaching to the choir here for sure the best time to plant a tree was yesterday and the second best time is today don't know who said that quote but it's a famous quote it was a famous so really it comes down to um the few optional items that were shown and and if we're missing anything uh there was a uh at least one if not a couple residents that really wanted tennis here and in the end when push came to shove tennis courts are about four times as large as pickle ball in total area more fencing higher fencing pickle ball being the rage we we just had to say no um but we accommodated the uh the larger basketball court there's plenty of area in this park to do most anything you want it's just what's in phase one and and what comes in future phases I know Marty had conversations with cdaa about funding the future ball field but that currently is down here um and not part of pH that prob yet corre and even though we don't plan for something today doesn't mean we can't put something in part two or in this part when the second law comes available kind of turns out to be a really big thing and there's room up here for a tennis court cuz the bottom half is all baseball field right right so yep and if you're going to do tennis then ideally it' be close to parking same with pickle ball right which is ironic because you're getting these people coming to exercise and play pickle ball but they don't want to walk very far to go from their car to the pickleball court so uh pickle ball tends to be a little bit more of a Destination type of amend you know me and my kids go play Pickleball at Haven Hills or River Hills just because I know they're there and and do you ever encounter like Q lines at the courts we have yeah um that's one thing feedback from my mom a very Avid pickle ball player is you know somewhere to put your paddles the rules and like I'm thinking now like something to do not like we're going to put tons of amenities but like benches anything something cheap to for people to congregate if it is a park that we expect yep B usage I do see something there it looks like there's one small picnic table right here there be a garbage can right there so that would be where the team that was waiting would hang out uh we got a specific request from a a resident right across south of Hayden Hills right across the road he was a Avid pickle baller and he insisted that we include the same board talking about the rules and you know who gets priority and we haven't put it in but it was it wasn't in the original design but it's certainly something that probably needs to be added yeah okay you haven't had the police called out there to break fights yet well I can see that that'd be a good one for the news what is everybody's thoughts on the design give them a little feedback quick question on sand volleyball not really important I guess but does that require like water like washing off your feet and stuff I'm thinking that the bars around here usually there's like a little station to wash off when you're done obviously this isn't like a swim area that would have showers yeah it does certainly doesn't require it would it be nice certainly is that something that we would plan and have budgeted for in this I don't I don't see it at this location okay you know if you had a four or six Court complex where you were hosting tournaments and stuff then I think it makes sense but this is more of a neighborhood amenity um we'll probably put a concrete edger as an alternate for the sand volleyball but that's something that is definitely nice to have makes the sand last longer the playing experience better but you know uh uh you some kind of Ed anyway of concrete edger has a price attached to it so um but that's an easy alternate what would be the alternate for that I what with the the non- alternate be the default edger a shovel Edge that you have to put round up or or dig okay I'm just thinking it's probably still going to be cheaper than the concrete but there's then more of a cost because you have to maintain it's more maintenance right if it's not that nice per perimeter absolutely and you could do Timbers or whatever but we don't want to do that c with as many different um like sports options as there are to do here um I've thought about this for other Parks too but um I'm wondering if if this is still a popular thing but like if it might make sense to put up a bulletin board of some sort where people can like ask you know hey join my sand volleyball league or like that kind of stuff might also be a great way for the city to advertise certain things as well on the board um you know that's so I I like that idea one of the frustrations I had when I moved to from Roseville up to uh then Rogers now Dayton I was a Avid volleyball player winter leagues um there was no organized volleyball it was like a age of a point of life age discrepancy between a more established community and kind of the young families that were prevalent in Rogers at that time and Dayton's probably no different now with the the new you just people didn't have that time to to create leagues and be part of a team um I think with um these uh this neighborhood all the neighborhoods have their own Facebook pages and that they communicate a lot through it as well so some of us aren't on social media though we don't like to Stu yeah so on the playground itself I don't I don't design the actual structures um but we design the envelope to accommodate so Marty has gotten some 3D imagery the other thing about a bulletin board too is everyone who comes into the park is going to see it whereas like on a Facebook post if you're not looking within like the first couple hours of it being there it's going to there's no algorithm on a board you just walk by it and you look or you don't I'm I'm wholeheartedly agree with you that's I think it's a great way to get it gives everyone an opportunity and I know this is a neighborhood park or for that area but still other people are going to go there it's I think it's I think it's a cool thing um more than one neighborhood pardon you're going to be serving more than one neighborhood sure yeah and I think I think it it it Fosters a good sense of community and and doesn't rely on people having U social media that they may have strong feelings one or another about okay the uh the neighborhood that we got uh last February March yeah it was a while ago um one of them was very adamant that he did not want I think he used the term Gish or he didn't want really bright colors to right ruin the value of his $700,000 home or whatever they're going for up in that area so I don't know if you made recommendations on colors to the cons I didn't make any recommendation on colors I think that they I asked for M color and that's why he's got the green on there mhm so you've got to weren't our Parks going to stick with the city colors though rather than the uh mustard yellow and neon green well we did we've had that conversation numerous times I think that you know uh we wanted to have some variety in the Parks as well so that would be part of the color palette um it would be good if we could have some representation of that but it doesn't have to be all blue and green you know think and I think some of the other stuff that we were looking at was you some of the Shel picnic shelters were green and and blue and stuff like that and the basketball court colors is wasn't it blue yeah yeah that way it signifies though that it's a city park right it's not a private park you drive around you're seeing something like this or I think it's I I kind of agree I'd like to see a little more cohesiveness I think there's great opportunity for variety when I see parks with this color and that color it looks more halfhazard or random than like I mean I don't have a problem with it whatsoever but I think if they had a I don't know a cohesiveness that that could be aesthetically pleasing too I would think that we'd want to have one of the logo colors represented in some way shape or form I think Mark is right that variety and and product lines change I mean the purple and we might not have all the options for colors yeah purple and green were really popular in the '90s right and you see them now and they're super dated right right we stuff with them and we have have 30 25 to 30 years before play tends to be redone so it's going to be there a long time uh I think some cohesiveness would be important I don't think they all have to be the same right and I I realize we w't have maybe full creative control over what colors we can choose um but I mean even on the fire department every red truck from every manufacturer is a different red so it's you know year to year we might not even be able to get the same colors maybe from different manufacturers so if you're not used to looking at playground plans the red Dash lines are What's called the fall zone that's the area that cannot overlap and cannot hit a hard surface so this is pretty well-sized and there's a couple spots that we could probably shrink it up a little bit but some of those areas allow for just kids to be engaged outside of the Fall zones too so I think it's it's pretty well sized right now um depending on what we end up with for final budgets sometimes we have to make some adjustments but that would just be changing the what we call the container and we did get a $100,000 grant for this playground nice is that through hen County you okay and the price includes the trails which will come out of a different fund yeah as a reminder there's $887,000 in this quot that's tra are we so the the design of this um like these structures and stuff has already been decided on then uh and everything What the residents wanted isn't it second again isn't it What the residents wanted with their I think they wanted something yeah I think it was uh based on what they want wanted for age range um so that and it's limited by the size of the the areas and the recommendations are lck from the um residents uh not the residents but the the game time people as to what things go together in that certain age group but we did ask for you know what the What the residents were looking for some guidance from the residents and then the yeah subject matter I'm just curious what you want from us then on this um park I think the feedback about the colors is an important consideration um you know without some of the actual bid results I can't tell you whether or not you can afford the seat wall or whatever ever you know that'll come later but you know if you had no interest in it we just wouldn't bother putting it in there but I'm always for adding plants and natural you know the the size of the structure flowers yes exactly be areas and whatnot making sure that you were okay with the the smaller 2/3 size uh structure um for the most part it it's it's a pretty typical neighborhood park you know pick a ball full full basketball the sand volleyball is something that we haven't done recently but uh that was a a specific request there was a specific request for making sure that we had um accessible play equipment for children with uh disabilities so um that was a very pointed comment from one individual at those um we had really good feedback almost a year ago now and when we um talked to the the playground people always ask for ADA Compliant parts of that say whenever they design a park for us we always insist we have some Ada um sure elements to it there's a lot of work that you can't see on layers that are turned off for this exhibit but this this park was farther along in the planning process because it was it was more obvious what needed to happen so you know we're there's fewer decisions that have to be made here I think would be a fair comment um but if you if you want to make changes speak now cuz no that's I'm I think this is great yep I'm good with it okay I think this is good because it goes with all of the recommendations they had made so I think we're we're meeting as many as we can all trees aren't on that drawing do you have trees on the south side of the playground there to help shade in the summer because I know that's one thing we're going to our park is there's like no big shight shade trees there's some small Maples but they're on the wrong shading so a big old kite sure big old kite we know where we have one but like right in here get big chunk of Oaks or something planted in there that will actually start don't start them as seedlings cuz I know that's what you're saying but something that provid some shade now but a lot of shade in the future I think could be we could probably get big trunks at least like destination parks in their own if you get trees big enough that shade the whole park yeah cuz parents want go yeah in the hot summer for sure I don't think all of the trees can be you know your 1 in be whip you need some Mass you know five to six inch tones but yes council member trose the layers are not on for landscape I assume yeah and I'm sure we'll get you know a comment that they want to make sure that this is screened I've got some Evergreens on either side of the parking lot you have the easement the power line easement that comes through here so we're not doing a lot of planting right underneath that but uh the buffer between that Resident as long as it's not Arbor right we're good you go against AR a lot we don't have time I own Gardens is part of this bid pack but it's very straightforward it was a seating area yep um we're not we're not going to rehash that one we know what we have to do everybody look at ion Gardens just so yeah the numbers we're good mhm awesome anything else I guess maybe a comment from Mar on the city website the city that we have the park Improvement projects which is great it'd be kind of neat to have like that master plan in there I'm sure I have it in one of the packets in my email that I've gotten but sometimes it's hard to go through the hundreds of pages of PDFs to find the right thing okay um but like wasn't there one that showed like the faces and stuff like I remember seeing it again I have it on my computer where I just instead of going through all these packet I include it in the packet was it not included well it might have been I guess my my point is that as even as a commissioner it's difficult to go through all these packets that are big huge 100 Meg PDF sometimes to find that when it I would kind of expect that oh Park Improvement projects what's the master plan for LC Stevens but it's not listed under here plan what you so you want do you want me to put it on the website so I think that would be I think it's a good idea for me personally if if no one else thinks it's a good idea if you could send it to me that'd be cool too um I think it's important but I think having it up here would be great because I thought I did send it to you guys once we I'm certain that I have it I'm certain I have it in my email I just I have all of these packets that are huge and I could go through them all I just I wanted to mention it because maybe residents would also find out that's fine I can certainly um get it on the website and yeah that's not a problem thank you Marty awesome thank you thank you Paul as well presentation tonight appreciate your time uh go ahead the only thing I need is the next coun Park commission meeting well I don't see our next scheduled Parks commissioner meeting on here I know which should be January 7th January 7th is the next one yeah is there so you're asking is there anything anybody here would like to see at the next Park I need to know if there's anything would like to see and I would also like to know if that's um a good day for everybody that works I assume it is let me would we want to start discussing trails at that point or uh are you alluding to letting that month go no I'm not alluding to letting that month go I just want to know what we're going to put on that schedule if you guys got stuff that you need to do I want to try and bring back the park furniture with price in and some suggestions on that mhm uh there are a few I'd like to have an update on the uh Tree City USA thing um I I've had a couple other plates spinning so I haven't prioritized it but um okay I hope to have an update on that then so you can put something on there and I'll feel held accountable to that respons that's pretty short January 30th calendar J I'd have to look at the schedule on that I think yeah we may well we may well have something for the RFP stuff back on want block it for now so 30 days plus a holiday yeah I would be impressive it's aggressive but yeah it's doable I'm going to talk yeah that's what Zach wants to do I don't know if it's if it's feasible but I think that we can do it and if it doesn't work out we can redo it again okay we'll see and then maybe people ask for an extension as well they are willing you to to uh gain we can award an extension if we need to um oh one thing that I forgot to mention was we do have a new um uh person taking Danielle's job she starts Monday for sure she's going to be here for hly day and on Thursday uh her name is Ashley mccy um and she yeah so she's going to be helping me with this um and it's going to take her a while to get to speech she'll be working part-time 20 hours a week um and then we'll see where we go from there for the holid day event on Thursday yeah just dress warm be here at quarter to 6 I guess yeah have you been well you're supposed to be at Amy invited the council the commission okay yeah I I'm not part of that committee and somebody else is dealing with that so I'm just going where I'm told to be on that one but dress warm well I didn't know about that is how how bring the snowshoes your cross country ski Well yeah if you want Da you know it's up to you you know expecting a snowstorm you never know it's Minnesota you can come in your Speedo for all I care Dave you I'm still waiting for we letting that go anyways all right is set anything else but we don't go ahead but yeah I was on about it too cuz it's a we just have to show up but we don't have to bring anything no you don't have to bring anything just bring and I think they probably put you to work doing something or I don't know if they're putting something together for the park commission to be at I I don't know I thought we were just walking in the front I asked what time I have to be there where I have to be and I got possible answers with no definitives yet from Zach so fantastic can we have those possible answers so we know supped but it's for fire yeah I think he said so I'll be there but not in a park Capac the I'll have this hoodie on underneath though just in case any answer any parks questions I me probably it's probably five at City Hall is what I heard okay I said we have a definitive will you please let me know he said yes I didn't hear anything today December 5th and we will at the gas station Amy says you can either come to City Hall at 5:30 or go to the gas station at 5:45 yep dep you gas station food or City Hall food this is an email you're in a different role yeah fair fair that's true and we don't have to side byid city council okay be on Friday at the gas station got it okay entertain a motion to adjourn motion second all in favor the meting e e