going to order the parks meeting of April 1st. Please stand and do the pledge of allegiance. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Uh call for any additions, changes, or deletions from the agenda. Anything, Marty? I didn't have anything. All right. Um motion to approve the minutes from the March meeting. All motion. Second. Uh motion by Carrie and seconded by John. All in favor say I. I. All right. On to the open forum for no consent agenda. Sorry. Entertain a motion to approve the We already did that. Now we're on to open forum. Nobody on. Nobody online to speak? No. Anybody in the crowd? Anybody have anything to say for open forum? This is it. Does this include later after speakers talk or you got some speakers coming talking today? Yeah, correct. Related to those. Is it related to those items? To speak beforehand. Are are you expecting to speak related to their item that the items they're speaking to? Yes. Yes. And I think then we'll wait probably later. Yeah. Thank you. All right. Uh council update. Uh I don't really have much as you guys know the uh 8th next Tuesday we will be talking about the park bids at the council level. So that's really all about all I got. Okay. Okay. Thank you, Councilman Scott. [Music] Um, staff update. Marty, I think all my updates are on the agenda tonight. So, moving right along. Perfect. All right. On to regular meeting item B, Elm Creek Watershed Presentation. I think we got a good slideshow up here. Do you want to run the slideshow from there or do you want to run it? I should have worn my glasses. Just this one. That's not going to help me see this one. Thank you. And uh good evening. Um my name is Diane Spectre. I'm actually with Stantech. Uh we're not only engineers for the city of Dayton, we're also the engineers for the Elman Creek wershed commission. Um so we're here tonight to begin your act the first presentation of out to all the individual cities within the wershed on our draft fourth generation wershed management plan. So I hope to enlighten you as to what that means and uh start the public input and comment process on that. So, first of all, I hope you're familiar with the the Elm Creek wershed and that is a joint powers uh organization of seven cities in this kind of northwest Henipin County area. Wersheds are organized because water doesn't stop and runoff doesn't stop at a city boundary. It follows other contours and therefore it's managed in a a drainage area rather than a city. uh the Elm Creek wershed commission is the role is basically to set standards and policies whereas the city's role is to implement projects and improvements. So it's kind of the the planning entity that provides kind of an overall joint uh set of standards that everybody's working towards common goals and then then hands it off to the cities and let the cities do their things to implement it. Uh it is uh there is a citizen board of commissioners. Uh Doug Baines is your commissioner from the city of Dayton. Uh and the the city staff do sit on a technical advisory committee and so that they're very much involved hands-on in the the uh the activities of the of the wershed fourth generation plan. Uh state statute says that wersheds must update their management plans every 10 years. This is going to be Elm Elm Creek's fourth plan. Hence the fourth generation plan. It is separate from but it's related to the comprehensive plan process. So in the next few years all the cities will start will embark on updating their comprehensive plan. So the watershed plan are are separate entities but it does drive the city's individual storm water management plan or local plan and that becomes then a part of the city's comprehensive plan. So we're just kind of embarking on starting that planning process for the next goound for 2050. So just a couple of things that the commission does is uh it reviews plans for new development and redevelopment. Does have certain standards so that uh when that happens that development hand happens it minimizes the impacts to downstream receiving water. So uh new development and redevelopment cannot increase the amount of pollutants running off of pro off of uh parcels or the rate of storm water runoff and they have to limit the amount of volume of storm water runoff that runs off. So, so the the post-development impact is similar to or better than the pre-development impact. So, over the last 10 years, the the commission's undertaken 439 project of use. So, that's between 40 and 50 per year. So, that's a sign that there's a lot of development going on that is being managed. Does have a a uh monitoring program. There are four what we call Sentinel Lakes. Uh Weaver, Fish, Diamond, and Rice Lakes are the Sentinel Lakes that get monitored every year. And then uh the other years or the other lakes where we can get access to them are monitored about every 3 to four years. We do have three stream sites where we're tracking the flow and water quality so we can kind of keep a handle on what's happening within those waters and how development might be impacting the water quality within those. Uh we've got a a decent size education outreach program. Probably the biggest uh part of it is uh working together with three other watershed organizations in this area. Shingle Creek, West Mississippi and Basset Creek on education and outreach and uh we employ a part-time educator that goes out into the schools and we've uh we've done lessons for 22,000 fourth graders across the four watersheds in the last 10 years. So, it's been pretty exciting. We do partner with Henipe County on uh outreach to uh agricultural operators uh and uh are working on um getting some BMPPS implemented and that has the that has the advantage of leveraging money that Henipin County can bring to the table as well. So uh between the two of us, we've been uh able to to complete some significant uh agricultural pro uh projects that are helping to control the pollutant loading coming from agricultural properties. And then also uh one of the things that we do is uh go out and get money uh so apply for grants and uh provide cost share through the county levy for projects. A recent project in the city of Dayton was joint between Dayton Three Rivers Park District and Henipin County. Those were some uh some big ravine stabilization projects along the Dayton River Road with that recent project. So this watershed management plan, what is it? what's in it, why should you care? Uh, in case you need some some bedtime reading, there's a an appendex which is called the land and water resources inventory. Tells you everything you might want to know about soils and geology and uh climate and all of that kind of things. But it kind of provides a background uh of uh what uh the wershed is and how how that influences water resources within the wershed. uh general information about how water and natural resources are managed and who does what. Uh it's not surprising that uh there are about 5 million agencies that have their fingers in in water management. So it's kind of hard to keep track of who does what. Whether it's the DNR, the PCA, the health department, uh the Met Council, um random the board of water and soil resources and other random agencies. I was asked once for by in a when I was talking to a a uh high school uh class that so who owns the water and I said I really can't tell you that there's too many fingers in the pot. Uh more important as part of the wershed management plan is is that part of this is our opportunity to kind of sit take a step back and assess the existing and potential water resources problems. We'll talk about that in just a minute. And then uh develop some goals and strategies for managing the water resources and addressing those problems and then developing an implementation plan for actions to whether it's the watershed commission undertaking actions or things that the cities plan on doing who's going to do what to work towards those 10ear goals. So um moving on to the identified problems in the Elm Creek wershed. uh had the uh the the technical advisory committee, the city people and the the the commissioners uh took the first crack at identifying what the what they thought were the top problems uh within the the Elm Creek wershed. And that has to do with that that there are several lakes and streams that are don't meet state water quality standards and those are called impaired waters, capital I, capital W. Um, and you can see in the boxes on the the right there that there are six lakes that currently are impaired. There used to be seven. Fish Lake was uh actually um able to be removed from the impaired waters list due to improved water quality based on action. So that's been a that was a uh a great uh thing to be able to accomplish. Uh there are impaired streams. Basically all the the major streams within the wershed have some impairments usually as sediment, nutrient, bacteria and um and those are also then impacting the biotic uh communities. So fish and aquatic insects the Crow River and the Mississippi River which are not directly in the wershed but receive runoff from the wershed are also impaired waters. So basically everywhere you look there's impaired waters. You know say we don't need to monitor, we just know we need to fix them. Um, this past go round we had some new impairments uh show up on the uh the last water quality assessment that the MPCA did and that is chloride in Elm Creek and in the South Fork of Rush Creek and I'll talk about that in the middle because that's going to be the subject of a of a special study that we'll be undertaking in the next the next 10 years. Chloride's kind of the new thing uh that that you'll hear a lot about. You probably have already heard a lot about it about chloride management, but there'll be an even greater emphasis on that in the in the future. uh erosion and sedimentation in the wershed uh and then the role of agricultural properties within their their uh contribution of pollutants to th those uh lakes and streams as well. And as part of that uh identified one of the problems which were identified is that uh um you know government units cities the county the mindot uh others that have do stuff within the wershed all have requirements on them to to do include water treatment uh of their storm water runoff when they do projects. Nobody else really does. So a lot of the work which is done is voluntary. So we need to how do we get how do we persuade people to undertake some of those uh improvements to help improve the water bodies. So we need to increase that voluntary adoption and part of that is is expanding education and outreach so people understand what they can do and why it's important and and how that uh can be undertaken. uh kind of lastly the two are kind of interrelated and again I'll talk about it a little bit more uh in a uh subsequent slide because it's uh going to be an important issue for the next 10 years and and beyond. Uh there's a lot of development going there were 439 project reviews in the last 10 years. There's probably going to be at least 439 project reviews in the coming 10 years. Uh so all that development that's occurring upstream is adding uh that that impervious surface that uh is not able to infiltrate water. It's all running off and it's being sent downstream. So development that's occurring in Corkran is going into into Rush Creek or the South Fork of Rush Creek headed downstream and it's headed for the Champlain Mil Pond, you know, or it's kind of the same thing with development that's occurring in Madina and in parts of Plymouth is headed right towards Rice Lake. So how do we deal with the fact that that land is transitioning and it's creating more runoff? At the same time, we do know that we do have data showing that there has been an increase in intensity and depth of precipitation and we expect that to continue. We don't know exactly what's going to happen, but we know we need to think about and and uh and evaluate what the impacts of that might be. So, uh we've got a potential um project coming in the next 10 years that I'll got a slide to talk to you about it because I think it's another one of those that's going to be really important. Before I leave that, um, kind of one of the purposes of coming out to you today and, uh, and in the future is really to get your input. So, is there anything on here that you're aware of? And, and bear in mind that this doesn't include, uh, drinking water issues, drinking water is beyond the purview of the watershed organization. anything that jumps out at you that's not on this list, just kind of the general water quality within the lakes and streams within the wershed, the condition of the streams, uh the fact that we've got development happening, we need people to do more things, we've got this new issue of chloride, we've got a lot of development happening. Anything jumping out at you? It feels pretty comprehensive to me. Okay. Well, uh again, just keep it in the back of your mind and if something occurs to you, uh you know, we'll we've got an opportunity to add to uh add that to the list. So, uh the uh that the commissioners and that the technical advisory committee have have identified four primary goals for the next 10 years. Uh kind of the first two are kind of related. One is protecting those water resources. So all those impacts coming from development uh you know trying to uh repair what's been the damage that has been done uh to date uh reducing the amount of storm water just limiting that flood risk and protecting the systems so that we can uh reduce or or just um help to minimize the impacts that are happening. But we want them to put an in increased emphasis on education and outreach so that everybody's aware of what's going on and what they can do. And uh number four is I'm going to read this. Anticipate and proactively work to withstand adverse impacts from changing land use cover and environmental and climate conditions. Think about where we're going to be in 2050 and beyond. Project what that's going to be. make sure that we understand what that's going to be so that as we're developing, as we're undertaking infrastructure projects, that we know that we have that in the back of our minds as being design conditions to take into account when we build things. When we build infrastructure, we're not building for 10 years. We're building for 50 years or beyond. So, we need to be able to understand what think those risks are going to be in the those coming years. So uh the fourth generation plan outlines some specific implementation strategies. So first and foremost is uh projects the city like I said at the beginning the the commission identifies problems the cities and some potential solutions the cities undertake projects cities have submitted um what they expect to have happen in the next 5 to 10 years and there's a couple of different stream restoration projects we're working on managing carp and fish and rice lakes. uh we'll talk about at the very end here about some upcoming work on Diamond Lake. Uh one of the things that uh the commission has started doing is helping out cities to um purchase upgraded street sweepers. Um enhanced street sweeping is a it can be an effective uh BMP if you can't do anything else. But the key is that they have to be um it has to be frequent and it has to be thorough. So, it's not sending the broom sweeper down in the spring to pick up the the winter dritus. It's got to be more frequently than that. But, uh, those cities are are committing to undertake enhanced street sweeping as part of their, uh, their efforts to minimize the pollutant loading to those uh, pro to those uh, lakes and streams. Then something we just call generic projects, which is just we just put we're putting on our CIP. We we know we're going to do some stream projects. We know we're going to do some lake projects. We don't know what they are right now, but we're just going to put on the CIP generic projects saying we commit to doing those projects. Um, we don't know what they're going to be right now, but uh, we'll we'll find something. The commission does also have a couple of cost share programs to help with those voluntary BMPs and these are for kind of smaller projects. So, for private property, uh, up to 100% of funding for improvements in private property. So, say you've got a developer coming in and they've got an opportunity to include something. They don't have to include a BMP on their site, but they but they agree to do so. We can provide up to 100% of that funding, up to $100,000. Uh for small city-led projects, this the commission will provide up to 50% of that funding. So say you got a park and you've got an improvement go project going on and you've got a spot there where you can incorporate some storm water management on a voluntary basis. Commission can kick in some money. So that's a way to kind of help encourage that voluntary adoption of of pro of practices. And I can see somebody's got a little glint in his eye. I got some projects for you. Uh education and outreach. Um continue and expand partnerships. continue working with Henipin County to go out there uh uh assisting the producers and the animal operators with what they what they're doing on their sites. Uh there's a group that of four WOs uh in the northwest uh uh Hampen County called the West Metro Water Alliance. Uh that that's that that program that provides education outreach to students and parents and the public. We currently have a halftime outreach coordinator. We're our goal is within 10 years to make that a full-time position. So that becomes available. Uh they're available if you've got I know I think we've got a something coming up in Dayton where she's going to be tableabling at Yep. at the open house. Yeah. Yep. Okay. And then uh we haven't we've been kind of off and on doing outreach to lake associations and HOAs and other groups like that, but really u enhancing that and and bringing those folks into the uh the fold as far as um helping them help us manage the water resources within the wershed. um Elm Creek wershed, Shingle Creek Wershed, and West Mississippi wershed all to submitted a joint application for grant funding last fall for a joint chloride management plan. Uh received just under $50,000 for that. Uh we will be developing that joint chloride management plan to help us better understand chloride sources. I mean, we kind of have a good idea where it's coming from when it's, you know, cities and other road authorities track what they're putting on the on the roads, but there are all kinds of other sources of chloride within the wershed. Private applicators, we really don't have a good idea of what the private applicators are putting down. Um, one source that we really haven't, we know it's a source. No one's ever tried to quantify it is chloride, which is in fertilizers that's applied to grow crops. So, it's really about half of that that chloride management plan is really drilling down to determine where the majority of those sources are coming from that aren't already being addressed with some type of practices. Uh, so that we can strategically target management actions. If we've got an area that's right next to a stream, say it's right next to Elm Creek, it's a big parking lot and they've got an applicator that's goes out there with a with a truck and applies a whole truck full of salt. whether or not it needs a truck full of salt put to the parking lot. That tells us that that's a a priority for us to do some management action on uh developing partnerships uh and again uh and then delivering common messages across those watersheds. We want people to think about chloride and we want that same message applies whether you're in Dayton or whether you're in Plymouth or whether you're in Minneapolis. So, and then finally, the climate resilience and and sustainability project. This is a four-phase project that we'll be undertaking probably through the life of the the 10-year life of this plan. Starting out with what we call the framework, which is basically just gathering information and guidance and preparing for phase two. We're waiting on getting some precipitation guidance from Noah. Uh some of you may have heard of something called Atlas 14. Okay, Atlas 15 is expected out within the next two years. So, we're waiting on Atlas 15 to come out. Atlas 14 is precipitation information that's looking backwards at what happened in the past. Atlas 15 is looking forwards, projecting what's going to happen in the future. So, we've got that happening. Cities will be undertaking their C comprehensive plans and thinking about their 2050 land use. So, we've got that happening. So when that information is available which would be in about 2028 uh this phase two of this climate resiliency and sustainability strategy is using our hydraologic and hydraulic models to um model some scenarios. What happens if precipitation does this? What happens if land cover does this? What does that do to the extent and duration of flooding areas? Is there any infrastructure that's going to be put at risk in 2050? you know, if you've got a a roadway that you're planning to replace in 20 years and you're going to have to replace a bridge, um are you going to need to upsize that bridge to in order to safely convey the flows that we expect to have in 50 years? Those kinds of things. The second part of that then is is the strategy identification and that is looking at okay now that we've modeled what we think that precipitation and potential flooding might be what can we do to prevent the future flooding? Can we revise how we're thinking about land use might be changing? Can we revise our rules and standards regarding how developers have deal with uh what's on their sites when they're developing? Um are there projects that we can be undertaking? Can we just add, you know, your big storage ponds in the wershed to hold back more water before it gets to, you know, downstream? Um the map which is up there on the slide is a soils map. The areas that are is shown in kind of that coral along the the uh coral river and along the Mississippi and kind of the light green are the types of soils that are best at infiltrating runoff. The colors which are in that uh kind of tan or dark tan are among the soils that are the worst at infiltrating runoff. So you can see we got a problem here. But there are there are areas where there is there is the possibility for infiltrating. Can we provide regional infiltration to offset some of those new volumes which are being created by development? So those are the kinds of things that we're going to be looking at in that adaptation strategy and identification. then um implementing projects whatever we find you know whether it's um like I said storage projects enhanced infiltration flood proofing uh and uh uh potentially revising the development rules and standards and really just communicating just making sure that everybody understands and aware what the risks are and what the anticipated um potential might be in the future. So, uh, that's going to be a big, uh, um, a big thing that the waterershed will be working on and probably if you get involved in and you, you likely will be involved in the comprehensive planning process for for the city of Dayton's comp plan. Uh, that's something that we'll be providing more information to you as you're thinking about what that means for the park plan uh, part of the comp plan or as part of the land use uh, part of the comp plan. Uh lastly, you might be wondering, yes, how can I learn more about the watershed plan and I'd direct you to there's a link in the in your your packet to the Young Creek Wershed website where we have uh the the current drafts of the fourth generation plan and then the various appendices except for we're still revising the rules and standards. And there's a comment box there as well. So, if you've got comments or questions that you want to follow, get more information on, feel free to leave a comment or question. Uh, we're also going to be circulating, we just haven't gotten, we just haven't finished it yet, a survey of of of the public just to better understand what people's priorities are. Uh, and, uh, um, help us as we're going through and estab to to tell us that we're on the right track for as far as what the projects are that we're proposing and and the the problems that we've identified. So really that land and water inventory, it's gold. Um, finally, I just wanted to highlight a couple things that are going on within the city of Dayton right now. Uh the the commission has uh last year uh received a sign significant amount of grant funding from the board of water and soil resources to do with as we please and about half of it about $175,000 we dedicated to our work with uh the with Henipin County and outreach to agricultural operators. A big chunk of it over $100,000 was dedicated to these three uh projects in the city of Dayton. We call them Diamond Lake neighborhood projects. Uh there's a small pond draining a development devel uh area to the the the west right off of French Lake Road just kind of on the southwest corner of French Lake that we're looking at uh u options there to expand that to provide more treatment before it discharges into French Lake. There there's a neighborhood on the north side of Diamond Lake where we've got a storm sewer system that discharges directly into the lake. So can we add some treatment within some manholes there? And then uh Grass Lake, which is basically just a glorified wetland, um which is just to the west of Diamond Lake. Um we know based on monitoring data that it's shooting out nutrients is a significant source of nutrients to Diamond Lake. And how what can we do? What kind of options do we have there to reduce that before it goes into Diamond Lake? So that work's going on right now in the CIP uh for uh a feasibility study next year and then treatment in 2027 2028 is a diamond lake alum treatment. And alum is a chemical if you're not aware of it as a chemical that you can apply to a lake and it strips phosphorus out of the water column and it falls to the bottom and it it forms a kind of a flock on the the the lake bottom and prevents the release of phosphorus from the sediments. Uh so uh we hope that that will make a noticeable improvement in the water quality in Diamond Lake. As a matter of fact, that's what we did in in Fish Lake and that's that's how Fish Lake got to the improved water quality that it has. Will that work okay with the treatment that they've been doing in there with the Curly Pond Lake? It's not going to it doesn't interfere. Okay. uh when what we've got built into that uh uh the CIP project is when you have a lake that's got invasive vegetation in it, sometimes that improved water quality makes it go crazy. Mhm. So, we built into that project uh a kind of a savings account for paying for future uh treatment of that invasive vegetation like curly leaf. So, it doesn't fall to the lake association to do it. It's kind of like we broke it, we'll fix it. See, that's what I've got. So, like I said, whoops. Um, I hope that you all have the opportunity to go and and uh take a look at your leisure at the the fourth generation plan update documents. Uh, or even if you've just got some questions or comments just based on this presentation, please feel free to submit them on that form or pass them along and uh Marty and we'll make sure that they get to us. And uh any other questions or comments that I can answer for you right now? Um you mentioned thinking to the future as we develop. Do you have any examples of like communities or cities that have done a really good job with that sort of thing just overall? I you know I don't have uh anything that's uh local. This is a fairly new um approach. Um and it one of the things that we struggled with is trying to keep it really small because uh resiliency can mean something like really big. All of a sudden you're talking about greenhouse gases and vegetation and things like that. It's like we're just going to confine ourselves just to storm water runoff. So uh but there are I mean there are some things which are similar to it where you look at a subwaterhed and say okay we've got existing flooding impacts now what can we do within the wershed and figure out how to deal with that. Uh what's missing from that approach is that those those projections of what's this going to look like in 2050 or later? Um I so I'm a Minnesota master naturalist and I'm going to their conference in May and actually I think there is a presentation happening there that I'm attending that is going to give an example of one of the um cities that has done a really good job with like adopt uh storm drain and and all of that kind of stuff. So Rochester is one of them that has done that. Great. Yeah. So, I'll be attending that and hopefully I'll learn more that I can share with y'all. Unfortunately, this the the state of Minnesota had I think about 3 years worth of funds available to help spur this type of modeling uh to to uh so that we could have those results available to do these types of resiliency planning. And we applied a couple of times and didn't get it and now it's run out. So, and given the budget conditions, I don't know that it's nec that it's necessarily going to be renewed. So, anything else? All right. Well, thank you so much. Thank you. Appreciate it. www.mpershed.org. Thank you. That didn't go too bad for your first time out. I'm sorry. Didn't go too bad for the first time out. No. No. So, and especially on April Fool's Day. Yeah. I got six more of these to do over the next the next month. So, thank you. Thank you. All right. Uh, next we have Three Rivers Park, West Mississippi River Trail. Hello. Do you have Which one? Uh, 20 25. Yep. Just click that the forward button. Yep. Okay, great. [Applause] Well, good evening everybody. Um, park commissioners. Thank you for having Three Rivers tonight. My name is Ann Rexine. I serve as their principal planner. I also have with me Jonathan Vleing who is the associate superintendent uh with us tonight and available for questions after the presentation should you have any. Um there's been a lot of updates recent updates to the proposed West Mississippi River regional trail in the city of Dayton and we wanted to take an opportunity to share information with you and offer a space to ask questions and for us to share a little bit about our process. So this is a snapshot of Three Rivers presence within the city of Dayton. That map right there shows which you know of course Elm Creek. Um and then the intricate spaghetti network of proposed and existing regional trails within the city of Dayton. So Three Rivers currently has 18 miles of both proposed and existing regional trails within the city of Dayton. So the existing regional trails are shown in the solid line and the proposed are shown in the dashed line. So if you're unfamiliar of how a regional trail differentiates itself from a trail, a local trail, we've included a photo of what that might look like um on the top left. So, the regional designation is given to Three Rivers Trails that connect park destinations um and provide a regionally significant non-motorized recreation and transportation corridor. They typically are 10 ft wide. They're typically striped down the middle for two directional um flow and our uses are all non-motorized uses. So, they include walking, running, biking, and rolling. And the West Mississippi River Regional Trail generally follows Dayton River Road um along the Mississippi River as you can see on the map right there. And the other three regional trails um connect and link Dayton to recreational assets like the Elm Creek Regional or Elm Creek Park Reserve. So, this regional trail, the West Mississippi Regional Trail, um is it builds upon no less than eight other local, state, and federal plans to provide that recreational corridor adjacent to the Mississippi River, including um the city of Dayton's current comp plan. So, I'm not going to read them all, but you can see them listed over there. So most notable from all those plans is the federally designated Mississippi River Trail or MRT as it's called which generally follows the Mississippi River and you can see that picture of the United States all the way from the confluence um up in Itasca to the Gulf of Mexico. So what you have in the city of Dayton is nationally significant and holds a place within a broader context. So, the piece within Dayton um had a long range plan that was completed and adopted in 2018 and it outlined the framework to complete the uh the trail using an underlying route designation principle that we wanted to get as close to the river as possible throughout this whole corridor through so Henipin County's corridor um includes the city of Dayton the city of Champlain, Brooklyn Park, and Brooklyn Center before it enters the Minneapolis system. So, this significant piece of this is already completed through Brooklyn Center and Brooklyn Park. And then there's the missing gap in Champlain and Dayton. Um, specific to Dayton, you can see by this map, um, is a dotted line between Gooden Park and North Diamond Lake Road. Um, and the plan recommended as opportunities arise and through a willing seller approach that acquisition along this corridor should be considered where construction complications could be alleviated to create a wider and more scenic regional trail corridor. [Applause] So over the last eight years since 2018, since the plan was adopted, Three Rivers has been actively actively working to improve this trail corridor for future design and construction. We are not at the design and construction phase at all. We're still in the planning framework stage. Notably, we've worked on an underpass um from the River Hills neighborhood to LC Stevens, which was coordinating between three rivers, the city, the developer, and Henipin County as a part of the West Mississippi River Regional Trail and the Elm Creek Trail connector down to the park reserve. Um also in the last eight years several properties have been acquired on that willing seller approach and we are working with this uh county henipin county to secure the trail corridor as part of their road reconstruction project that I have a separate slide that we can go over um in a little bit. So, all that's to say, there are a lot of moving parts um before we can even begin to design and construct the trail. So, of recent interest, and the reason why we're here tonight um is because there is a stretch of proposed trail again between Gooden Park and North Diamond Lake Road, which is about 3 and 1/2 miles. um a total of 330 acres of land is between those two anchor points. Um and then you'll note in the um diagram here, 252 acres are already in public ownership, whether it be the state, the county, the city, or three rivers. Um, Three Rivers in early planning has identified 20 parcels where construction is probably going to be a little tricky adjacent to the road just due to the road geometry and how it's adjacent to it and um the available um shoulder. So, we may need some construction, special construction andor easements are anticipated to be uh anticipated uh to construct the trail along the road. So, this slide shows some of the several uh acquisitions as an example of the ongoing work that we're doing in the city of Dayton. Um, Three Rivers received phone calls, again, these are willing sellers. We did not seek them out at all um by word of mouth from several properties in the stretch indicating their interest in selling their property to Three Rivers. Um these properties are indicated on the map by A, B, and C. Um so property A, which includes seven acres of land adjacent or near Gooden Park, um closed this morning. Um and property C which is further down is anticipated to close April 15th and B is pending further um Three Rivers engagement with the cities and the residents of of Dayton. So I mentioned the Henipin County corridor study that's currently going on. Um they are planning to reconstruct Dayton River Road in the coming years and you can see this is their diagram of the program years in which they are phasing that project. So you can see in the blue that's 2028 and then it goes all the way up through the section where I was speaking of in green. That's their phase 4 and they don't have a program year on that section quite yet. But we are working in conjunction with the county and the city to ensure that the regional trail is constructed with the road reconstruction project. Um and uh they are planning their own open house on April 15th. We are tableabling at that open house. It's going to be located in the city of Champlain. I have some material that I'm going to leave with Marty tonight that he can pass along with you. um we're cross-promoting each other's projects um and so we will be tableabling and having discussion about the West Mississippi River Regional Trail at that meeting as well um should you be interested in attending. So, in addition, we have a long-standing relationship with the city staff and we have been working pretty um we've been really dedicated to their water trail project and this is a project that I just wanted to highlight because it's an active project that Three Rivers is coordinating with the city on. Um, this is Gooden Park and you can't really see it because the lines are a little faded right here, but Three Rivers Park District owns property adjacent to Gooden Park. And so in a uh a joint partnership between Three Rivers and the city, we would like to propose access to the river um including a staged construction approach first beginning with a gravel parking lot, a paved trail to the river, and a non-motorized boat access and staging area. um we have submitted an LCCMR grant um to complete this work in conjunction with the city's dedicated funds and you can see the amounts um that are located on this slide and we expect that construction um most likely to be in 2026 if our funding is secured on our end. So we're really looking forward to what this can bring to the community. So, I mentioned a little bit about our process for re-engaging the city after our um master plan was completed in 2018 and and this slide uh is dedicated to how we propose to do that. So, it goes from April 1st, which is today, through June 24th. Um and you can see here, we'd like to engage re-engage the uh city council next week. That's April 8th. April 15th is that Henipin County um Dayton River Road corridor study openhouse that's located at Mississippi Crossings. Um and then we would really like to engage the property owners adjacent to the corridor. So, we will be opening um and sending letters to have an open dialogue from April 15th to May 20th um just so we can sit down and have a conversation so that it's totally open and transparent about um what our process is and and what that might mean for property owners. Um and then April 15th to June 15th, we'd like to do some online engagement. Um, and then we're hosting a open house, our own open house at Eastman Nature Center on May 14th. Oh, I'm sorry, excuse me. you have your own open house um at the public works building um that we will also be tableabling that following up by May 21st. We are having our own um open house at East Eastman Nature Center to talk about this project followed up by what we hope to be a joint um council and parks commission uh work session on the 24th of June. So I just wanted to share those with you. you are um more than welcome to attend any and all of those events or contact me for more information regarding um the details and times. And that is my last slide. So with that, I'd like to invite any questions that you may have for either Jonathan or myself. Um and thank you for the opportunity to present our trail plans with you tonight. I also have a copy of the long range plan that I printed today that I will also leave here with you today just in case you don't have a copy. Okay. So, thank you. Yep. Does anybody have any questions? Okay. Um, was this a subject you guys wanted to It was. Can I have you come up here and fill out the form and state your name and address, please? Um, I didn't really come up with any real decent questions. I just wanted to know what their plan was. I read it on their website and it seemed pretty straightforward and I watched the last city council meeting and the council looked a little they like they didn't read the plan cuz they two of the members were well I don't really know what their plan is. So, I think this is pretty well self-explanatory, but okay. Plan is I don't have no issues or complaints about it at all. It seems straightforward. I just know somebody that has a piece of property that's ready to sell on the river is why Sure. That's it. All right. Thanks for coming. Thank you. Thank you. [Applause] All right. Uh, Marty, Water Trails Design 90% plan set. Yeah. So, this is, uh, pretty much last opportunity to take a look at the plans where we're at. I have Christian from MSA who's going to do the presentation. Um, do you want any We have uh those uh on the You do have those. Yeah, we can put those up if you want. This plans. That's the plans. This should be the renderings as well. Oh, at the end of it or something. Oh, is is it on their party? It's not on that. No, it's on a separate thing, I think. No, it shouldn't be in there. Maybe it didn't get in there. Maybe I'm wrong. That's okay. Um, we got the Yeah, Marty's got the electronic version where you want me to maybe prop these up somewhere. Yeah, maybe at the front there. They look great in Marty's office. Is it? Yeah, these. Maybe it is these. Well, yeah. Yeah, that is this is it from on here. Sorry. It's okay. Marty stand and hold the last one, right? I'll crop these up for some time. No, you're good. We're just um you can leave it there. Within the packet is the the 90% draft um plans. Um hope is tonight um just to give a broad overview but also if you have any detailed questions either tonight or over the next week including after the council meeting um you know let Marty know reach out directly myself um and the intention is that um barring any major changes um we'll be advertising next week and the following week posting things to Quest and getting things moving um as we're we're hopping into construction season here. So, general overview of things. Um, I'm sure all of you are aware. Um, maybe there's some been some minor changes. Um, there will be 88 parking improvements. Um, we have added in a shelter um possibly since this Yeah, since this project originated through here and it's pre-fabricated metal shelter. Um, we will have a a block seating area um as well as a permanent kayak storage rack um for eight kayaks um with a flat landing here. Um there will be some retaining walls necessary just due to the grade um and some black ornamental railing along the the downhill side of things. Um and then an ADA accessible concrete path down to the launch steps. Um there's about 13 launch steps. Um we also have looked at low water level, high water level. So as water changes, right? Um barring a 100redyear event. Um that that'll be up here somewhere. Um you know, the the launch will be accessible um to all um I don't know. Did you happen to share the cost estimate? So if you want to go through the renderings first and the cost estimates at the end, right? Do that. Yeah, these renderings um on the screen there. Top left is just given a view of the seating area um looking down towards the river. Um top right again the multi-use path. You can kind of see the the block wall. Um we have several vendors in mind. We don't have a specific um block wall vendor in mind. That is the aesthetic that that we're going for there. It will be a big block will be a natural limestone look to it. Um ultimately all colors that you see on the visuals here also within our specifications those are all be color pallets that'll be submitted by the biders afterwards for folks to decide on right I mean we'll have specifications regarding material quality and surfaces and whatnot but um all that will be submitts including the pre-fabricated shelter colors. So, um, large. If you you see, you know, if you hate the color that's showing on the the shelter right now, right? Um, how big is the shelter? It is 16x 24 sitting on a 22 by a fairly sitting on a pad. Yeah, it's it's fairly big. Um, it's got space for four pretty large ADA accessible picnic tables with with space around them. So, um pretty substantial shelter that would include lighting as well um LED lighting within the shelter. Um should Yeah, should the city choose to to award it like that into that with the cost estimate as well. Okay. I just say here, you know, with the cost estimate, there are a few alternates in there that we've identified just to get the base bid in and see what we're going to do, you know, from there on in. Okay. Flexibility on things. Um Was there another? Yeah, it should be one. [Applause] It should have been that one. Okay, that's okay. Um, this one just shows some viewed in looks here at the shelter. Um, from within the shelter, looking up at the shelter and in the digital versions, you can zoom in a lot better. Um, at the permanent kayak rack as well through here. So, okay. Does anyone have any questions regarding the overall site layout or or elements on things before we hop into kind of anticipated bid format and stuff? I don't if anybody else does. Okay, jump into it. And I wanted to get renderings for this because I know that sorry not everybody understands the technical drawings there. So I think we wanted to get something. They're really good. Awesome. Okay. Okay. So, what you see here is a is a breakdown of our cost estimate um with these 90% drawings. You'll see the the base bid estimate um also includes our already underway engineering um work, but that's at about $700,000 right now. And we've broken things out into six additional alternatives. Um those alternatives include the electrical service to the site and some different options for that electrical service whether that's direct barrier or or polemounted service um to this back corner of the park. We also have the pre-fabricated shelter um separated out as an alternate um to give the city some flexibility on that. Some some of those are are larger ticket items, right? And um we just want to want to make sure we can accomplish everything here. Um, same thing goes with that on-site electrical work. So, that that lighting within the shelter. Um, everything from um the pedestal and and meter to that shelter itself. Um, then picnic table is a small ticket item there. But then tree replacements is another um expense that we've gotten broken broken out right now. Um, if that is awarded, we don't have specific locations within the park for all those plantings. being that right now we're also looking at master planning for the entirety of the park, right? And um the right now with the number of trees specified for replacement just due to our removals um it's a lot of trees and I we don't want to jam all those into that back corner. Kind of want to leave the city some flexibility in terms of okay where do we want to put these that you're not removing them two years from now with something else going on in the park. Right. Right. Um that's kind of a just a blanket item um for tree purchase and install somewhere within LC Stevens Park is how that's broken out. It also includes our estimated construction administration costs um and a 10% contingency. So, um, grand scheme of things, if you were to award with all alternates, um, choosing in between A1 and A2 there with how you bring electrical service into the site, um, this could range from 700 to $900,000 is is what we're estimating right now, depending on what the city ultimately decides to award, where bid prices come in at. Um, and we we do our best at estimating, but we can't can't make any guarantees. So, hopefully this gives us some flexibility. But we're already under contract for the 118. Yes. And that's shown in there just to give you a big picture, right? Your global costs, right? And the big picture global cost does include the 118, the 701. Yes, that includes that 118. Correct. Yeah. Base bid construction estimates just under 500 in there. for those those base bid items. Which is essentially everything but the electrical, the tree replacements in the shelter, right? Yeah. So, Marty from us, you would like us to pick apart these alternatives? No, I think that what we do is put this out to bid and then when we get the price, then we'll select the alternatives. Okay, that works. Are we still thinking we have that 850,000 coming from the grant? Yeah, we got 950,000 coming. Okay, not the 3.9 million, but still. Okay, but I'd like to have some money to put in with the Three Rivers Park District to do something good in park there, you know. That's kind of what I was hoping to do specifically cuz when we applied for the federal grant, it was for the two location. Absolutely. I just wanted to, you know, it had changed from one to the next. Just wanted to make sure that Yeah. And that's why I wanted to add the alternates in there so we can do both things. That that flexibility be nice especially for items like the shelter. Um should Marty decide it's more responsible. Right. We're getting close on dollars and he'd rather spend it at Good and Park. Um the shelter can be bought at a discounted price if it's a direct purchase by the city. Right. The reason it's included in this is because you can use funding dollars potentially on it. Right. Sure. There's different options there. And um it might we'll see it might pay right to direct purchase it later and it might it might come in as part of the master plan as well at a later time as well. So we're not losing anything by planning this out now the way it is. Right. Later sounds good. All right. Thank you. No more questions. Nice work. We're easy on you. Wonderful. Wonderful rendering. That was really brings it to life. Yeah, I was just going to say thank you for bringing those so that well whoever had the idea, it really makes it easier for us to visualize. Yeah, I do appreciate that. And we'll see those in Marty's office moving forward. Framed. Sure. Framed even. Hang them in the from the dollar store. I got I got some skilled guys that work for me. Make them look at the frame. They're plowing snow right now. Come on now. All right. Uh, next presentation. Paul with the park improvements 2024 bid assessments those discussions. Sorry is are you on this one or which is the big Excel spreadsheet I [Applause] imagine. You got it. Okay. We're going to have the the spreadsheet up live here because um this is a complicated bidding project um because of the way that the bids were structured with base bid and a number of alternates and then a lastm minute change at the direction of the council to have all of LC Stevens uh as an alternate. So, um quite a lot to discuss and noodle on today. I've got a cheat sheet in front of me that will hopefully uh allow me to to quickly answer your questions, but uh this is for the 2025 PIP parks improvement package that was bid uh last Thursday. Uh we had six bids received Thursday at 3 p.m. Uh since that time, I've taken all that data, synthesized it, and put together the spreadsheet uh that's up on the screen uh right now. Um they do have the full thing as well. I printed out for the home. Great. So you'll be able to see uh individual line items. Uh the color coding that you see um underneath the individual contractors, the green represents the low bids for each of those sections. So the two top items being the base bid for PSA 21 and I own Gardens and then the alternates uh a total of 10 I believe. Uh yeah, 10. um VA contracting was the apparent low from a base bid perspective, but they would not be the apparent low depending on which alternates were selected. The award is based on the total. So any accepted alternates plus base bid. So, in some ways, uh, it could be skewed, I guess, 11 different ways because we have a base bed total and then 10 different alternates that could or could not be added to that. The highlights in kind of dark yellow on the left side, uh, those are just my opinion of where I thought would be a good starting point to talk about, um, as the likely alternates. Um the beds were very competitive. Um we had four that were very close together and two others, one that we had to throw out because they didn't acknowledge the addendum. Uh it's still represented in your package because it's good historical data uh to work from. And I I do these synthesis uh efforts for every project to have a running total and and be able to do estimates for future projects. Um, interestingly, Parkstone Construction that did the 2022 was the high for this project. So, uh, he must not have liked Marty. That's what I'm guessing. I'll make sure he did. Wow. Throwing people under the bus. Let's keep going here. So, um, the good news is the funding that's been allocated for the project um, could meet all of the park needs um, as bid. So, it really we want to get your input tonight and pass that on to the city council at the next meeting. Um, some of the alternates are things that can only be done now. Others like tree plantings can be done over time, but my opinion is that trees are kind of important to parks and we should plant some sooner than later. So, uh, they were pulled out, most of the landscaping was pulled out as an alternate because it's such an easy thing to to designate as an alternate. Um so the IOA estimate that's my company inside outside architecture. Uh the deviation from the low you'll see that we were uh within 8% uh on the base bid total. Uh when you look at the low compared or excuse me our estimate to the average we were within 4% for most of it. So very competitive bids very much in concert with what we had estimate estimated. Some of the alternates a little bit harder to estimate because they're very sight specific items. Uh some of those we nailed right on, some of those we missed a bit, but uh in total when you look at the overall park project, um I think we're right there. So that's good. Uh when you look at some historical data, which is interesting, Hayden Hills is the most similar project that we've built in recent years. So that was a 2022 project. um base bid plus the accepted alternates for the golf and the pickle ball was just under half a million, $497 roughly. Uh if you added irrigation and parking to that, you'd be up at um over 782,000. Uh PSA 21, which is the most comparable park, is coming in at 927. That's a 18.5% increase over 3 years. So when you think about what grocery prices have done and all the different costs you hear about inflation, 18.5% over three years is huge. Yeah, we usually account for about 3% per year. 3 * 3 * 3 is what? 10 and a half. So yeah, things are not getting any cheaper. Um, but I do feel good about the bids that we received. And getting six for a project of this size, I thought was uh really good participation. All good companies. Uh, Veta Contracting is the one we know the least about, but they won the bridge project over at LC Stevens that's underway right now. Uh, a much smaller company than some of the others. Custom Builders has been around for a couple decades. He's been very active in trying to get an answer from me over the last few days. So, um, so I apologize that you haven't had more time to digest this, but literally it was bid last Thursday at 3 and took through the weekend and into yesterday to uh to get the results in front of both Marty and I. Marty and I sat down and kind of went through them. Um, I'm happy to to look at any options that you want. Um, you don't have to certainly agree with my yellow highlight suggestions, but um, those were the things that I thought gained the most traction as we've had previous conversations. And I have some other exhibits that can highlight where those uh, alternates are if you need to remember. But I'd say moving forward, make sure this gets in front of us before the meeting. I had a discussion with Marty. um our job here is to come prepared to discuss things. It's important we have the documents to do that. So any other bidding we do throughout the year even if it's comes in on the Thursday, same situation, our email comes out to us that Friday before there's more documents coming, just get it out in front of us. So as you can see, we're all studying here. Yep. So and I'm happy to stay and answer as many questions as you want to to shorten that learning process. The three alternates that are not proposed in my recommendation would be the cornhole standalone cornhole element at PSA 21 and then I'm on the fence on the other two. The stone seat wall and fireplace exterior fireplace at LC and and there's some entry columns. Those actually came in pretty good. Uh, I didn't estimate that well, but the pricing came in really good and the value for what I saw in the six different bids. Uh, the apparent low or the likely low being either VETA or um, Custom Builders. Custom builders is uh, got a really good number on that should you choose to go that route. And if you remember, that was one thing that we talked about. Not necessarily a high priority for the park commission, but it was already conceptually detailed. I wanted to see what it would actually cost because it's a feature that oftentimes makes its way into uh master plans. So now we have good data on which to make a decision. When you look further down in the live spreadsheet here, is that what you picked up? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, there's two other options. Um, the only way that VA would be the apparent low was if we just did base bid. So, the two topline items. When you start to look at most of the other alternates, there's a couple different scenarios there where you could still win, but um it flips uh over to custom builders uh if most of those other alternates are accepted. That's a little bit unusual, I would say. And usually the apparent low is pretty obvious in a public good situation, but when you had six and they were as close as those first four were, um it's tight. But it's not so tight that a third and fourth contender are uh in the running. Would you like to see where the other alternates are located? I think we're still just digesting your numbers here. Yeah, if you could, that would be great. You want to see them? Sure. [Applause] So this is park service area 21. Uh the three ultimates that are recommended to accept all the trees shown with the green highlight. Uh the purple shaded area includes six ornamental trees, but the biggest element here is a stone seat wall and landscaping. A raised BM that slopes away from the playground. So you'd have um limestone blocks for seating on the entire southside. the trees would have shade. Uh and then the third alternate would be a concrete edger around the um sand volleyball court. The fourth element that I'm not proposing would be the standalone um cornhole game right here on the north side of the shelter. That helped. Thank you. Yep. I own gardens. I don't know why the color isn't showing, but all of the trees, coniferous trees, for some reason, when the developer built this project and dedicated this land, there were supposed to be coniferous trees included, and they were never planted. I I don't know why. Um, just the coniferous trees. So, this would capture um a total of 13 21 caniferous trees to add some screening from uh the adjoining residents. What is the tree type? The tree type I was wondering listed right in the schedule here. So spruce and pine. Spruce and pine. Blues. Spruce and pine. Black Hills Colorado spruce and ponderosa. And when you said or ornamental trees, do you mean something beyond though that or you you mentioned ornamental trees? That was That was for park service 21. That was um there's six ornamental trees included in the alternate right here. The green colored trees are part of a larger alternate for tree plantings. Gotcha. What is the species of the ornamentals? Is that That's That's what I was wondering. Specified. Um look, I'm not sure if I boxer spring snow crab apple. Okay. So, a fruitless white flowering. Oh, nice. We have one. I was going to say we have one, too. We don't want fruit uh around those seat walls near the playground. Kids mouths. When you look at the alternates for LC Stevens, so this is an enlargement of the U picnic shelter area. The blue area would be the seat wall and and centered fireplace, outdoor fireplace. The purple uh squares shown there are the stone entry columns, and I've got the detail pages that highlight those. And the other alternates would be the big alternate for the parking and then the gate at the historic entrance. Is this the place that where we were talking about the fire pits and stuff? Okay. Just making sure. Yep. So this detail page shows the uh the stone veneer columns, the decorative uh double swing gate at the historic entrance. And then this shows the seat wall and sloped landscaping at PSA21 and then the outdoor fireplace and seat wall at LC Stevens. Nice. So Marty, what do you need from us on this? I would like some direction as what you want to do for alternates. Um so we've got something to you know your recommendations to take to the council. Um, I'd just like to point out that um, in the one fund, the 405 park dedication fund, we have got 1,850,000 dedicated for the this project. Um, which project? Alise Stevens or all three of Huh? 1.85 is Yeah. 1.85 is what's in the CIP. There is some irrigation um included in one of the bids for area 21. we can uh use um funding from the water fund, okay, for that element. So that will we can take that out of the cost if you want to do more alternates. So that was 225,000 for the irrigation at park service area 21 and then another 225,000 225 for water irrigation. For irrigation. Okay. Is that a new well or city? That's a city. um where you go get all the electric there and all the big all the piper and all that good stuff. So we need to subtract 200 something from So if we have what was it 1.8 we need to sub subtract 200 from that. Yeah. 225 from that. Yeah. Yeah. 225. Okay. Yeah. Well, I think you're saying the other way around it can be covered by another fund. So our 1.8 over 2 million. That makes more sense. Okay. Okay. And the trails are about another 60,000. U possibly more. Um that's another fund though, isn't it? Correct. That's included in another fund. It could be. Yeah. Okay. But I think that you know we we can do all your alternates and from the 405 and the water fun. Yeah. And if we can leave the trail fund from all of our trail projects, I think I do that. Well, I know we weren't like super with you on the fireplace and stone seating wall initially, but I don't know. I kind of like it after you show this 50,000 though. I like the idea of the lower impact fire pits, but I don't know if that's maybe something you just Oh, I thought that was already happening. This we do have lower impact fire pits scattered below the Okay. Yeah. Okay. Two different locations with a Okay. Okay. I thought that was in I thought this was the just the interpretation of that. Okay. Yeah. Cool. So, I really like it. Stone. I think we could spend 50 somewhere else on within the park for it. So, we want to use this time to focus on going through each one of the alternative. I definitely think tree planting should be I think a norainer kind do you have any I think it all looks good are we wanting to converse extras and cross them off or tell me what ones you want to include in the project we can include all of them with budget that we have or if you don't if there's some that you specifically don't want then we can take those out. Well, let's go one by one then group pet the first one retaining walls and landscape. I mean I is that for at least Stevens is that that's the park service area the bench under the ornamental trees correct yes for that he did to help you so you didn't have to ask okay so the retaining wall for PSA 21 we got how many people want that we want I'm in favor of that one two yeah I'm in favor of it. We're all in on that one. All right, cool. All right. Concrete edge and volleyball court. Again, PSA 21. And not being a volleyball player, the value of that is I mean, aside from keeping the weeds separate, is there a is that the main thing that it gets us? Or from my perspective, it's for m uh keeping the the sand in there and e it's a lot easier for us to mow up to that and that makes perfect sense rather than having Yeah. What happens to the ledger without anything there? It just gets eroded after a while. Well, if it looks nice, I'm thinking and it's a sand volleyball court. Correct. How many people are going to stub their toes on concrete as they're playing barefoot? Yeah. And I'm not worried about stubbing toes, but I was worried about injury. Kids and biking or diving. No, I'm just an obstacle as you get well outside the court. And it is well outside the actual area playing area. The sand fills up the majority of that. So, uh, you wouldn't, it's not like a It's not like right to the edge of where the No, correct. It's not right on the edge of the plane area. It's more to create to to keep the sand in, to keep the weeds out, and to create an easier mowing for them. I think it's not very rarely would you be going as far as I think it is. You're probably not going to be like going for a ball in the back row and all of a sudden you crack your face on like concrete edging. might surprise you. I don't look like it, but I've played a lot of sand volleyball in my I come on that page back in La Hoya injuries from Cancun playing the Russian playing. All right. So, Russian dentist concrete edge around the volleyball court. Okay. 14 to $10,000. What's the group's thought? Yeah, that makes sense to me. Yeah, I feel like it would save us ahead. I also feel like it keeps us it makes it look a lot cleaner, polished look. It's very very much a maintenance consideration. It's for Marty and his crew's benefit more than the players. You're welcome, Marty. Thank you. He also thinks they actually But he also actually might save some too cuz you're not going to have all that sand get as displaced. Sure. Yeah. Whereas without it, it just kind of all of a sudden you putting start putting the sand in the grass and 5 years from now we don't have any sand left. Yeah. Has anybody ever been to a volleyball court? Sorry. Yes. And the volleyball court was as hard as concrete. The sand was. Yes. How do we plan to mitigate that? So the specification calls for a washed sand. So wash sand does not have the fines. So you're a soil scientist. The fines are what actually allow things to compact bind together. Yep. The more uh evenly graded that sand is, the less likely it is to compact. Cool. It's very purposefully specked out as wash sand. How neat of a sand is it? um 10 to 12 in and it's over a geoexile fabric so you don't have the migration of the fines in the subs soil in the sand. Okay, good to know. Cool. Thank you. All right, cornhole. So, we came with the AJ. Yes. Yeah, the low bid on the cornhole was right at $6,500. Just under $6,500. Uh that would be the goals themselves and the concrete. um bring your own bags, which is one of the challenges is if the bags aren't there. Is it one set or is it two sets of cornhole? One set with a concrete walkway in between for 65. I've got two sets in my shed. I don't use enough to I was going to say I feel like a lot of people could bring their own phone number. That's what I told if you're going to play. I actually have several in my garage I could just donate. The 6,500 just seems high. I mean, it does. Yeah. And it's Yeah. So permanent. Yeah, I say pass cuz then it changes it changes the space, right? Cuz if it's just nothing, you can make whatever you want it to be. It could be cornhole one day, could be soccer the next day, could be whatever. But if it becomes permanent, then we Yeah, the next item is all the trees shown in green on this map. 100%. I'm fan. Y Marty, yay on the trees. Got it. Uh similarly uh IOGA uh that was the only alternate for Yeah, absolutely. We're in favor of that. Yep. We like trees. That poor that poor park deserves So the next one is really a philosophical um ESPA uh was not even supposed to be there. We were supposed to have LC Stevens as part of the base bid with the four alternate five alternate four alternates listed below that. So the late direction from the council, we took that out. Contractors that were bidding were not thrilled with that change. Um it made their lives harder and probably affected the bids to some degree. Um, but we did the best we could to to take all of that work. Uh, that was to be base bid and it's a standalone alternate. So for LC Stevens, the only way you would accept the other four is if you would accept the first one. There's a combo of all A C D together costwise. Um, is there a combo of that? That would be the total of these, right? He's asking if that's what that number is. Is ESPA the sum of ESPA through D? No. No. Okay. That's more the the it's all the the base stuff on page three. Right. You want to do base bid? It's 371. If you want to park another Gotcha. Now, which is like parking, picnic shelter, and patio and landscaping. Correct. So, the base bid includes the back to the plan quickly. Bless you. Um, the base bid includes this loop and this parking and I shouldn't say base bid. The first alternate AA includes all of that. The parking that I refer to is this parking as alternate ESPA. Got it. So the base, what was to be base bid now alternate aa was the shelter, the fire pit, the paving around and underneath the shelter, some of the trail connections, uh the grading, things like that. But again, you can only accept A, B, C, or D if you accept AA. And I think we all accept AA. Kind of the base plan we went with. Yep. Mhm. Marty, we accept that. Good. All right. Who's in favor of the west parking lot? You got to have parking, right? You do have to have parking. It has been a problem. Just want everybody to realize the price that we're throwing in here is 130 to 150. I mean, is it going to get cheaper in the future? Nope. Are we going to need it less in the future? N then are we sure that's where we want? How many stalls? How many stalls? How many stalls? Three. Um, got enough for a small car show. That's a really good question. Do you have any other questions, Councilman? Sorry, it was on one of these maps. I thought I saw a picture. Okay. Okay. I'm going to have a question for Paul. Yeah. Sorry, I I can't answer that, but Okay. That's that's kind of right in the middle of the park right on that west end right along the kind of where the silos are kind of these are the green bins right here. Go that house. There's the green. So the old building remains is here. The old barn. You're just catching the edge of that. So this is basically just You said remains. H remains. Does that mean we're knocking it down? No. The one that's already knocked down. the yellow bun, not the post. I drove by today and it's still standing. So, this is just inside the existing asphalt road that we built last phase. So, there's a green strip in between the road and then it's a 60 ft offset off of that. So, can you I'm sorry to ask this. I'm just not remembering since there is east parking in the AA bid. Mhm. And then this is west parking. Can you just remind me where? Okay. So, here's the picnic shelter. There's just six stalls right here on this little loop drive. Kind of a U-shaped loop drive that would access that that needs. And that's the AA. That's in the AA. Okay. I'm sorry. I just could not remember where the AA was. Yeah. This is for once we have more stuff that we would need more parking, right? We need more than six stalls. I just couldn't remember where those were. Thank And you said you think it's about 60. Yeah, I can't see the stripes on this plan. I'm sorry, but um but 60 for 130 seems to reason. So to throw a wrench in all that if we move forward with West parking, would we be hampering the master plan? Uh no, I don't think that we would because this was kind of in the original master plan, I believe. But this is the new master plan. I know. So that they're going to move on from the you know those elements that were in that master plan they're going to add to it and you know a lot of that is going to be what that building looks like expanding the performance area and that kind of stuff. So they would add on to what we do here. Okay. Okay. Go ahead. So the the parking we can't just do the parking without having storm water. And so this basin, this sewer connection, storm sewer connection underneath the road, which requires a road crossing, that is all included in that alternate. Okay. So that's why that asphalt is so expensive. It's cuz it's a lot more than just the asphalt. Well, the total, right? Yeah, I know. I mean, they don't look beautiful from the bird's eye view here. They're probably But yeah, there's a lot of trees there. Every tree is beautiful. I I generally agree. I mean, the next item I agree, but Okay. Certain trees that So, everybody in favor of parking. Yeah. I think so. Think so. Think so. Okay. I'm just a little slow with my no thinking it through today. So, cuz I was I didn't come when you look at the uh the line items for that alternate. The actual asphalt is about 35,000 of that 130. Quarter of the cost. Okay. All right. There's curb, there's the grading, there's the utilities which are a big part of that. So, got it. So, I guess I'm going to go backwards and just ask the question for the whole um base bid. Yeah. So, we changed it to be an alternative because of because of the fact that we're now looking at the whole park again. Is that why? Is that the reason why There was um yeah I spoke with Zach and Zach asked me because I think some of the council members had spoken to him saying we got this master plan coming maybe we should back off on doing this part that's why we put in as an alternate because the bid was already out there um and if we just left it in there we would have had to take we have to cancel the whole project so no not three parks would be done. So we put it in as an alternate to give us the option to at least do the other two parks and then include whatever we wanted with this see what the pricing came in at. So I think I am changing my vote on the base. Yeah. Is there something specific within the base you are not happy with? I just feel like if we're going to be paying a company to be looking at our park that we've already decided we're going to do, we've already awarded that, then they should be able to have the free range of that park of the whole area with the idea that that money would be allocated then more towards I mean that we would still save the money for that, right? But but my concern is I mean if we put these things in yes we know we need another parking lot. Yes we know we need these different things but I don't want us to hinder it and then us regret a decision or tear something up. And so at first I didn't understand why it was an alternate. It just took my brain a little bit to get to there. All good. So I I guess I understand why it was turned into an alternate and maybe we need to think about that before we just move forward with and the reason why it was part of the 2024 project was the council wanted to keep keep us moving on that project and that's kind of what delayed um getting the bidding out and everything because that was a last minute ad and there was a lot of work in there. Um, it's your decision whichever way you go. Um, if you don't want to do it, that's fine and we can just add it into the master plan and that's that's fine as well. Okay. So, you have already paid to have that designed. So, no. Yeah, I know. Well, you haven't yet because I haven't sent you the invoice, but but we will. And so, we're technically paying for it twice. We would be We would be paying for it twice, right? I'm just trying to No, that's great. That's fine. I'm just trying to work it all through. I'm not in construction. The other the other thing, as I already illustrated, you know, with pricing doing what it has done, it's going to keep going for two years. It's going to be it's going to keep going after. Yeah. And I'm not saying I guess I'm not saying I'm set on not doing it. I just want to make sure we really think about it before we just plow forward. Sure. So the one thing that I do have to highlight is there is no way possibly through change order but it's going to be over a 10 or 20% threshold. The way the documents are structured you have base bid for the two parks and everything else is an alternate. You can't just buy the parking well actually could just buy the parking lot. Paul, that would come that would that's a question that I'm going to have when we look at this next week. What happens if we go through this thing and we take pieces out? Pieces that are alternates are fine. No, pieces that are not altered. They're in the base bid. For LC Stevens, there is nothing in the base bid. No, I understand that. Well, in the base bid, yeah, there's the shelter's in there. No, right. Everything's an alternate. Yeah. Okay. Yes. Everything related to LC Stevens is all so for any of the parks just say uh as an example area 21 the 18 by8 shelter. What happens if they take that out? It's my thought. This is my thought and I I think we can do this. I mean contractors aren't going to like it. I understand that. What happens if you take that out and give it to a local contractor in in the city to build it? If it's within a certain threshold, we can do it through change order. If it exceeds 25, I think I think it was 20. I'll have to look at that. If it's over a certain amount, we then the contractor has rights. We have rights up to a certain percentage and then if we go beyond that, then the contractor has rights to say, "No, I'm not going to do it." So you're saying what I think what you're saying is if if the bid is a million bucks and you take out a hundred grand, he can say no, I'm not going to do it or increase the cost of everything else. He doesn't have to honor the bid price. Okay. Okay. That's the challenge of public bid, right? You It's not just negotiation. It's right. This is there's certain things we can do and we try to design it in a way that we have as much flexibility as we can, but we can't make every single item an alternate because nobody would bid it. Right. So, back to the team here. Let's talk about this AA alternate like Carrie was. I'm curious to hear what the rest of your thoughts are about the big grand master plan and we may be hindering something by moving forward or we move it forward. So, so I will say Oh, sorry, you go first. Um, I was just trying to play this out in my head. If we move forward with this and, you know, we're the pros of that being that we're potentially saving money because it would be more expensive in the future, etc., etc. Realistically, with where this is located in LC Stevens, what couldn't we do with if we built this? Like, is there anything in our imaginations of what this park would be that we all of a sudden would not be able to build? And that's kind of what I'm thinking. cuz if the answer to that is nothing like based on what we thought of then I think we move forward with it. That's just my thought process. The west parking right? If you're saying hey I don't want to do the west parking well what were you planning on putting there or what else would you rather do there? I think part of why we're using the space we're using it's not the most desired part of the park so use it for parking instead of taking away some of the bigger play area. Is that kind of where Yeah, that's exactly where I'm going. I agree with you 100%. And the base bid does include just that little parking area. There is no base bid. Alternate AA. Thank you. Alternate AA semantics on words. But that's what it means. And landscaping. And everybody is still in favor of that. Yes, I think I'm in favor of it still. Sure. Yeah. I hope Yeah. Thanks for letting me ask you take more time. I I understand it better now that you asked and put it that way. So So for the west parking lot, so there's a few trees in that area. Okay. Um, okay. That area was kept free of most of Hi. You're in favor of the parking. Well, I want to finish sharing. Okay. What? I was just going to explain when we did phase two, there was a whole bunch of dirt that Marty collected over the years. It would have been very costly to move that dirt off the site. It got scattered in other areas of the park. There was scrub trees and whatever. That creates a lot of the mounding. That's really nice when you're out there. Those will be very difficult areas to use in the future for other than open space because there's dirt over trees and it's a little bit of a mess underneath there. But we had to get rid of the dirt uh in a fairly short window. So the parking area, the west parking area was kept clear of that knowing that we needed parking. It was part of the original master plan dating back to 2010, something like that. Yeah. Yeah. My previous company uh was involved in that. Um we've always master plan parking. There was plans for a larger kind of destination playground in and around the ruins of the old barn. Not the barn that's currently standing, but the old barn that's just uh stone walls. Um, so that is still planned someday and there's been there's been updates of that master plan over time, but the the semi-ircular parking lot has been part of the revised master plan for quite a while. So, we we knew to keep that area clear of fill basically. I think that answers Kai's question about like what else are we going to do with that space? And it seems like this is a pretty logical choice based on what you're saying and what what the long-term plan has been for quite some time, right? And there still is room to do a destination playground, although there's been some debate as to given that River Hills is reasonably close, do we needed it? Right. That's something that I hope will be vetted during the revised master plan. Right. But if you do build a playground there, any type of element, it's going to be parking. Well, it's just that they have a I think and I don't know what the timeline is for the event center parking that would be east of the ravine connected. You're going to need Yeah. Yeah. But it's a neighborhood park just for a big neighborhood, right? Parking. Okay. Okay. All right. Gate and historic entrance. So that was a detail I had drawn for Marty many many months ago and years probably ago. Yeah. Um we were going to have that just built at Crystal Welding or something like that and you still could. Um but because the detail already existed and we were bidding this project, we threw it in as an alternate to see what kind of pricing we would get given that there was already going to be contractors on site, concrete on site. Um, and it came in at 10,300 was the low. And what does this look like? Did you have a drawing of it by chance or a rendering of sorts? Rendering, right? Yeah. It looks like this. So, it's a double swing. Uh, the columns and the light poles already there. So, the uh post would be set just in front of that and then it would swing out. It's also a requirement of their the Henipin County controlled access on that particular and the control is just the other access. That was the only reason we could get that otherwise we'd have been stuck with just this one access here. Um so to still make it usable in a case of emergency for fire department or police. We I said to them, can we do a controlled access? And they agreed to that. So that it's just it's closed until we need it for an event or an emergency. And then it's like just locked with a padlock. I'm guessing we don't need anything automated or fancy. No, it's not that fancy. I think padlock will be good. So it has a HAP p has panel right in the middle and then it has these decorative Dayton logo uh flat steel panels in the middle which so is with the roof over the top then kind of like am I understanding that correctly? It's No. No. Okay. These are the the historic stone columns. Oh, I I understand. I was completely wrong. Yes. Okay. So, this is is is this something that will like that makes stand out as people are driving by like this is this is something or is it I'm trying to decide if this looks just kind of like I've seen at other parks where it's just like So, I guess the short answer is we have to put it in. It's just whether or not it's part of this bid or not. Got it. Okay. And I think there's a time frame with the county as well that we would need to get it in. I think there's 5 years from the original them saying that we could do it. Um Well, again, it's not going to be cheaper later. So, I mean, yeah. Yep. It's got to be done. Okay. Mhm. And then the last two are the uh stone seat wall fireplace and the stone entry columns. I really like that fireplace, but I feel like that maybe is best left with the master plan. I don't know. Yeah. So, if it were just base bed, there would be just a single stainless steel rail. Uh it's not over a 30-in drop. So, we don't need, you know, your 4-in opening protective guardrail. It just needs to keep people from accidentally walking over that drop. So, that slopes down. You'll see the steps here on the sides. Uh the patio sits up high with the the shelter and then it overlooks the wooded area and ultimately the river. So this was designed to be a a wood burning fireplace with a flu stone veneer. So you had wood storage compartments on either side of the firebox here with the flu up to a galvanized rain cap. I'm still not a fan. Sorry, that's fine. I'm just one of five, but I don't think right now. I think I think Yeah, let's if it shakes out as they want in the master plan, I think I'd be all in favor, but I just I don't want to commit to it right now. Yeah. Going through everything else that we've gone through and feeling like all of that is more important. Okay. This feels easy to say no to. So if you were to not no for those two do those two then I would probably suggest that these also not be done which are the entrance columns. Yeah I was kind of thinking I'd agree. And those were Oops. Right here kind of a gateway to the the shelter. Yeah. Everything else feels pretty important in comparison. Cool. So those recommend recommendations drive with what I had highlighted which when you total it here uh would put custom builders as the apparent low uh in a very tight race of separation of just $8,100 and some change. Okay, cool. And I like that they're they've been around longer, right? So that's a good sign. Have we ever done any work with them before? I think we have. I I don't for the life of me remember what project it was on. Um I don't I'd have to look to see why it was, but they've got a good reputation. I know of them. So does the city have a strategy of trying to spread it around, if you will? You know, like you said, we're doing something with VA right now. Yeah. Right. It's not usually that. It's usually the lowest bidder that we we're obligated to take the lowest bid. But if they're that close and you can kind of go back and forth is that nobody ever looks at it's always about the dollar. It's always about them ultimately. I mean, we do have some language in the specifications that if there was an obvious capacity issue or staffing issue or something, you could use that. But generally, you're bound to go with the lowest responsive bid. They did have some very minor math errors that could be used to exclude them if you really wanted to. Um, I talked to them about that, made it made them aware that it doesn't change the result of any of that. It was just they deleted something when they should have added it and they skipped one line. So, it wouldn't have changed the bid results. In fact, it tightened it. So, it made it more um close. Okay. Well, thank you for your input. We will pass this on uh to the city council for their uh ultimate approval. Um construction would begin as early as June 1. Okay. We'll hold you to it. We're excited to see it. Thank you. Thank you, Paul. Thank you. Thank you for answering my questions. You bet. All right, Marty. Tree ordinance. The last Here's the tree ordinance. This has been doing the rounds. Um, I gave you the um the final version with all the comments in there. Do you have any comments to add before I pull the final document together? I read through it and I didn't have anything. I didn't have any either. Nope. No. That's apparently my comments made it in there and they responded to them. That's cool. All right. I guess that's what I get for sharing a digital document. That's awesome. No, I mean I guess based on the last work session, I'm not sure there'll be support for it depending on how it's interpreted, but yeah, we'll have to let them vote on it. All right. I'll get the final document made up from this and then we'll put that in front of the council. Thank you. Appreciate that. Will the Arbor Day proclamation go in front of the council too? No, I think I think we wouldn't bother with that, you know. Yes, of course. I'll get that then. We like our trees, Marty. I know. And trails and parks. Mhm. Well, that's good. We like We like that you like that. All right. All right. Uh, next park commission meeting is May 6th. Um, entertain a motion. I had one thing. Sorry. Um, go ahead. Last fire uh meeting training meeting we were talking about all the uh experience we've had with grass fires. We've had you know lot lot going on this this uh this spring. So I guess it's dried don't burn. But um as we were commenting on how these places are going to grow back so good. Um they mentioned that the department burned clo a while back and asked if there were any other prescribed burns on the radar and kind of half joking but then thinking more about it I wondered I mentioned what about Leather's Park would it make sense to burn that before they seed it. Um I don't know if that's something that you'd have any interest in. Um Kevin said oh mention it to Marty. So I'm not saying that that they uh we have the resources necessary to do it but I think it'd be good to reach out to Norby. Is it? Yeah. No. If you're if you're interested in that and see if that's something that would uh be beneficial or make sense to do at this time. Um um I could reach out to them and see how that would impact their receding program. I don't know what that would do, but I can certainly talk to Yeah, the research I've done online seems, you know, things generally indicate that it would be good, but again, they're the experts. I wouldn't want them to show up and be like, "Oh, no, we don't want to do it this way because they're the ones doing it." So, um yeah. I mean the other thing is I mean uh Clo has got the prairie there. Yeah. And that need would need a bid. I'm not sure if that's got the if that would be you know an option if it's in that B and that's what it came up is someone was like oh are we going to burn that again? That was you know a good experience good practice and also good for the for the environment. So kind of a win-win. Um and like I said we had a lot of those parks. Um I would prefer to I think just gut feeling I would pre prefer to do clo because that's established. Yeah. And I think it would benefit from a bird. Um Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's something that the department would probably have interest in because it's good practice for us. Get our equipment out, get used on our equipment, and then also good for the community environment. So you guys do the the prescribed burns? I haven't been on the department since they've done one, but in the past, yes, the fire department has done one. And then three Rivers contracts with another company um Red Rocks Fire out of Sego which is actually a part of Minnesota Native Landscapes. Um so when you see Three Rivers Park District burning and the really cool jeeps out there with those guys. Would that be some would you like to uh have the opportunity to burn with Three Rivers Park District? Me personally, absolutely. Um yeah, I know that there was uh I'm not sure how that I know Three Rivers works directly with them. Um I've got a meeting with them on Friday. I could ask the question if you want me to. If you want to throw it out there. I know that's something some of the other guys in the department have talked about like we'd love to get in and train with the guys from Red Rocks, you know, or even just work in tandem with them. You know, we have um two grass apparatus right now and then in the next couple weeks I think another one coming back outfitted. I'll ask the tree guys as well on Friday and see what they they say about that. They're definitely talking to as well. Yeah, it's been a busy spring already. So, yeah. Okay. Does anybody else have anything? Um, I'm going to be gone for work on the six. Do we want to just say no, Brad? That's fine by me. Um, otherwise, do you guys want to look at a different date? Is everybody How many times have you been absent in the year 2025? Zero in your year from what is it? July to July. That's kind of our year. I think has been one or two. Okay. I just want to make sure that threshold. Yeah. I I'll look it up. Um I mean you guys fine with me not being there. As long as you don't over the three threshold. Okay. It's July to June. Is July to June the I believe so. Our fiscal calendar. Okay. I'll look and see what I miss cuz I think it's I want to say it's one or two so far. What do we have on for the sixth party? I don't know just yet. I'd have to look at my board and I don't have it in my mind. Well, if if Brad you find that that would be a problem, maybe you can reach out to Marty. Okay. And if we have something more than nothing for the agenda, then you can reach out to us to figure out a time. Can we do that over email or does it have to be does time have to be ratified in these minutes or in this meeting? Doesn't have to be ratified in this or we want proposed next meeting would be May, right? if we have certain material which Marty will be working on and I will let you know as soon as I know what we got coming. I think John Cold might have a couple of items that he wants to bring but but are they break neck have to get done or could they wait till June cuz we got the parks rolling. We got our trails rolling. We've seen our budget. Yeah. He's saying you want a break. Well, so did just meet last week. We'll see you on the 14th. Okay. Well, that being said, like cuz then the first week of June, I got to travel again for work. So, we could do like a middle of May and just move it back and call it the May June if there's I don't mind if we move it out for May 6th cuz that's my birthday. So, I'll be May 5th is my daughter. Like, what if we What if we did? Oh, yeah. It I'm Could we meet before our open house? I like that day. Could we could we just have our meeting be the at the open house? Could that we'll know if he has beneficial enough bring other things you might have but some of the other people might be at the open house. John will be there. So I won't be at the open house but I haven't I don't who you missed. I think I've missed one. Yeah, you missed one. I've missed one. So I missed two but I uh he very complex. Yeah. For a meeting, right? Yeah. Why don't you look and see? Let us know if we'll say a tenative meeting would be the sixth. If it's not the agenda, then we may as well cancel. Yeah. And that's fine. It's okay. That's too I have a mandatory work thing on the 14th. That's if we if there's nothing mine's all been work. I mean, I don't know what the if there's no agenda for the six, we'll cancel. We won't have the meeting. It's not like we've canceled a lot of meetings recently. I think that we've had a pretty good run here. Let me look at whatever and we've had extra meetings with extra attendance for the joint session and all that. So, we're doing good things. You get a brownie point for that. It's not anything more actual. Can I have an actual brownie? Well, there I was going to say there's always May 27th. If you're missing the first of June, we could always try to do May 27th. council on May 27th is a council meeting. I didn't think about that. Marty will let us know if we have things. Yeah. Yep. Sounds good. May 27th at work. If not, we'll see you the 14th and Kai won't be there. Carrie won't be there. Okay. So, you want to do Yeah. For the open house? Yeah. And then we'll figure out the June meeting date because Tuesday and June anyways. Perfect. Yep. Sounds good. We'll show up again when you email us. All right. Do you guys want a table at the open house or are you just in attendance? We had the table last year. Yep. It was nice. Okay. We had a bunch of tree pamphlets. Thank you, John. I don't have any of those left. Just making sure. I don't know if I ever picked them back up from Danielle if they were extras. Or who could we contact? I can I could probably get more. I'll email Sonia. She'll be thrilled. Bring that. Oh, yeah. Since they left them anyway. And any other renderings we have for the work that we're going to do at PSA21? Yeah. If there's any packets or anything you want me to print off, I can send them my way too for no one else. You want me to take those? Yeah. We're going to need those for the council meeting anyway. Yeah. And then if we could have them at the I mean Yeah. No, that' be cool. It would look good to be able to show people what's going to happen. I think that's why I wanted to get them done because it's, you know, all very well showing top, you know, topography, but not everybody understands where that is. I took your comment to heart there, Scott. We don't have a plotter printer to do our own. No, I don't. I do. Printing is the easy part. You got to actually render it, right? Yeah. Mine' be stick. Okay. So, entertain a motion to adjourn the meeting. I'll motion. Second. Second motion by Carrie, second by Kai. Um, all in favor say I. I. I. Does anybody want any information about that? Um, open house for I do. Thank you. Is that the entire