e e okay I will call the order the regular meeting Daton city council for August 27th stand up for the pledge PL Ali to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right I will need a motion of second for the agenda I'll make motion no second okay any discussion changes um I do have an ad if I can add item J1 um just to improve Dayton lines uh gambling for a permanent pres um for a permanent location at uh Fisher Farms try to any other changes all right all those in favor say I all those oppos say no motion carries 5 to zero we are on consent we need a motion in a second Mo I'll second need discussion let's see here I have a couple um one Marty this is for you um in the uh payment of claims there was a a bill for $1,730 from hopen County for snow plowing y I'm wondering what that was about that's for The Interchange they they plow The Interchange from bro uh from 81 to Brockton and back so that's that was the agreed upon maintenance figure that the uh was it um discussed when the interchanges bill okay thank you is that a is that a fixed cost by the way no matter how it changes um they review it every year um but it's not like a personal kind of a deal say again it's not a per time thing okay no I was just curious no they're going to be doing it all the time with their maintenance then I also had a question on uh item G um and this is relates to the uh Eda um bylaws and I'm I'm wondering because the change was made for uh John to be the executive sponsor of that meeting um it mentions U signing uh documents and so do do we have a policy around signature Authority and I guess my question is does John normally have that signature Authority or is that something new with this set of bylaws there would be something new with the set of isws so signers for the city are Amy the mayor and I believe the vice mayor yourself comes more fashioned um but um official signers are technically Amy the mayor and yourself so um I'm able to sign in L if Amy's not available or whatever but other than that John is technically not a signing authority of the city so at one time for the Eda there was the clerk rule that was in the Eda as well and um I don't know if that's realistic yeah well I think if the if John's going to have that role he should probably have that Authority but I wonder if we shouldn't have a policy that lays out who can sign for what and we can lay out in the B if you'd like to related to the Eda doesn't need to be there just a Citywide policy on who's got the authority to sign documents in for we have a general one for the city but we could probably make one for in for everybody and I just want to make sure that it's consistent across the board yeah just overview of that policy that's all I have I'm I'm going to add on to that as long as Dave brought that up uh that conversation to change from Zach to to John was pretty much spurred on by Matt's conversation that you two sat down and had that conversation is that how you agree that are best used um so I I am an employee of the city so if the city would like to see me use utilize with the Eda I'm most certainly able to do that um but I am spread thin with other responsibilities so dividing up my time is what the best the city feels is what it's expected of me is fine um if you guys feel like the best use of time is having John there at the Eda I would say that's acceptable and it's appropriate for other communities that I've been in um the city administrator can be there but typically if there is a community devel director in the role there's the typic who's the liaison for those Eda type functions just cuz it mimics that Community Development planning area so closely um but again I'm a city staff employee no different than anybody else is and I'm directed by the Council of where you'd like me to work at so but I'm only one person and I'm doing two jobs so having me the Ed L on may or may not be the best use of my time that's up to the city council to decide the reason I ask is is I know that Eda would prefer you um I mean that's the way it was set up and that's the way the Eda voted on it sure um and that conversation came up I kind of went along with it because I thought you guys had that conversation and that was your message to Matt was this is my best use of time if I'm not there yeah I mean I think the best use of my time is wherever I can spend it to propel the city the most and um spending my time is Le isign of the Ed doesn't it takes away from my time being a city administrator to keep moving the city forward so again if that's the best use of my time that's fine by me just want to make that clear I'm not saying it can't be at one or the other but yep and we also talked internally it doesn't remove Zach's responsibilities as being the finance director which also might have him attending an Eda meeting correct y yeah I'll still be around and it's not like I'm going to be gone I mean I'm going to say probably the biggest um time consumptions preparing for the meeting not attending the meeting itself very meeting is hour and a half a month prepping it is going to be quite a long yeah it's four or five hours a month or or more depending on what you're doing I would say it's not maybe it's inconsistent in our recent history but you know when um when Tina was still here she had both development director and City administrator Royal so I don't know which hat she was wearing at the Eda but there it kind of was the community development director that was at those meetings that would be correct so like I said in other communities that have workon it's always been the community development director who's been Eda liaison now if there is not one then it's considered the city administrators at that point because they are doing that community development director position um but typically it's the community development director position that does that liaison work sure I had one I'm good okay yeah I'm by minute I had one other comment about the bylaws and um it's on page two section one it says when um the appointment of Commissioners is what this relates to and it says when a commissioner leaves office commissioner Shall Serve until a successor has been appointed and installed and that would be new for us when people leave they just leave they leave yeah yeah I think it says up in every commission that we have um so whether they choose um you know if we have someone willing that's great um but whether they choose to follow that or not yeah it's not that's the expectation but yeah that language did come from the other commissions that's where it came from so I I guess it can be there I don't think we have way of enforcing we can most certainly strike it or amend it if you'd like it's up to you just it just didn't seem to match our practice and I but we should have the bylaws match what we actually do I think the I don't have a preference the way as I think about this as you bring it up to me the upside is is that someone may come in and say listen I I'm done on whatever commission I'll stay on for a month or two where you guys should have figure this out so you have the people it gives us more upside I think than it does downside that's my initial thought is as we talk about it but I've only thought about it for three minutes so I think people are going to do that anyways I mean you're not going to leave somebody in the lurch um unless you got something that comes up that just says you got to bail on this and I agree with Dave it's kind of a meaningless statement but whether or now we remove it yeah if nobody has a strong feeling about it I it doesn't have to change for me any else no I've got something so the the uh item e the Riverwalk Third Edition so I know Zach you and I talked about this but but last time we got questions from the a lot of emails I got from people that live on Kings viw because when Riverwalk opened up it was as to use the term I got one of the emails a train of semis going down the road as du building materials were being brought in um so uh it is listed you and I talked about this I'm just going to say but you it is listed in there that the appropriate Road in and out of that development for the construction is Pioneer Parkway and so I don't know if there is something we can do to put up signs that say residential use only be on this point at some of those roads and exits because I got a lot of emails and a lot of neighbors that were upset that all of a sudden there a bunch of semis going through and first I didn't think it's like okay yeah but there's building you kind of expect it but I think it was Jason that said one semi with the equivalent of 170 some thousand cars going down the road and so it does take an a lot more wear and tear on the roads um and since we did redo some of those roads like to see them last as long as possible so I don't know how we get them to follow that better but I think that'd be helpful and then um just a reminder that you know we have a sign policy so making sure that as those are being built we're not having 10,000 Mi signs on the corner of one intersection be great all noted anybody else I got a question on Jay the silt seeder for Marty not about price or anything um the availability of the we're in that program I think for that share that like sharing program um with this give us the ability to kind of give back in that matter okay basically I didn't see it mentioned in there I just wanted to make sure that if we're if we're using we're actually providing availability too and that's that would be part of that that's the same with all of our equipment you know that's available to them uh if we're not using it and that yeah likewise for them okay with us cool thank you what the program are you let's say we borrow a piece of equipment yeah motor blows up on their equipment you're saying yeah okay there there is Co-op this this do they how do they handle that I think we worked through that that was through it's going to be either our insurance if it's our equipment or their insurance it's the owner of the equipment it the insurance carries on with the equipment so if we damage something from say corron their insurance would cover that if they damage our equipment then our insurance would cover this is that that program we we bought into to protect our our our our equipment from um not necessarily accidents but maintenance problems are they in those same programs yes okay yes okay all right any more discussion all those in favor say I I I all those opposed say no okay consent is passed 5 to zero we will move on to open Forum um anybody here for open Forum these are for items not on the agenda is anybody in line um if you're here for open Forum if you can use that raise your hand function not see all right we'll close open Forum staff consultant Council updates Zach good evening mayor members of council I have two updates for you one is that we're still working through the Federal grant related to the Wellhead treatment plant I know it's been an ongoing disaster but we're still working with shipo to get them to make a decision um there was a letter sent from HUD to shipo so HUD is our um federal agents that are helping us with this process and they are trying to help us continue to push shipo to give a determination shipo again is the state historical preservation office and so we need them to give us a determination and they are denying to do that so I thought they had a 30-day um yep so when they deny it and then we respond back they have now 90 days to respond yes um we did respond back to the federal government hoping they could just step in and give us a determination however they have said that they are not going to do that because it's sho's determination and not theirs so so that could push it out in another three months three months we is not accounted for right that is correct yeah so we are doing whatever we can um I know that there was emails back and forth last week with an say stantex team um trying to figure everything out as fast as we can and um I know that they're working on on it as much as we can too but it's frustrating for all accounts so what does the contractors say about that are they still they are waiting for Yep they're still waiting for us they are do you have another project that's in the near region that they're basically reallocated they're I'm going to call them their troops or their workers too so uh they are still in the area and it's a larger project so they're probably being helped by their Community you know but yeah frustrating they're all un involved um and then as reminder next week on Monday we are closed for Labor Day that's all I have thank you very much Amy um I just have a update on the henen county has the um New Recycling requirements and I have sent that out to you I believe um I can send out further information but you'll probably see by the end of the year um one of the requirements is that we're going to have to start licensing um garbage H so that will be something new as they required um so there'll be so many required options and then there'll be some optional um things and you have we have to come up with a certain score then to meet um the new mhm um standards okay and this is just recycling haulers you're saying No this would be garbage haulers garbage haulers yep yeah garbage and recycling refug and Rec liing like at a city level or yep so I brought this concern up um early on when they were accepting um I think Commissioners may have even reached out to council members um I was concerned in wanting comments to the county um because they have their open commenting I believe it still might be open I I'll forward that email again please yeah um I I I think it will be a group effort and things need to be done but I think there are some requirements coming our way that um are going to impact us financially and um other ways yeah so just a fair warning you'll be seeing some are they providing all the like requirements for that the licensing the licensing and the scoring of yep so that's the document that um they have it's almost adopted or official of what your new requirements will be and then what the optional ones will be and the scoring of those you're not talking about Organics right you're talking about also includ it so it's all garbage recycling Organics um but more yeah but all the new requirements that we have more umbrella this is a henan county thing so yeah that's cuz we're in henan County you got it okay that's all I have mar mar counselor I don't have an update tonight sweet okay all right mayor and conso same for me I R all right uh the me Council came out with policy PL so staff is reviewing it will generate kind of a summary for council's review We your a d at it this is yeah this is related to the note that you mentioned at the last me believe mayor related to the four units an acre and other things too so if staff is putting the other comments um graciously appreciate John putting those comments together in a memo and those will be two Council believe the next Council me that's our go let go this may seem farfetched but this is something that we can have you me look at and just see what our options are this is comment period so we can provide any com I I know what I guess what I'm getting at is common common periods are for you can just say what I might say wasting time um but when they come out with this what are what our options are sure so the comment period is open until October 7 and met Council will be holding a public hearing on September 25th so the goal is to have a council response for that 25th public hearing all right okay is that it that's it no update sir got I got one thing it's been brought to my attention that we need to do something with our sign ordinance because community events are getting their signs taken down and the event is for the benefit of the public but yet we don't want to promote the public event now the only time that and it did this week it happened to two particular and coincidence or not I don't know if it is datton Heritage days had their signs taken down and so did the Dayton car show had their signs taken down my question would be have we ever had any of the city sponsored events signed taken down because it seems to me like we're targeting specific group like our uh Easter egg hunt those signs are out there just like the Dayton car show signs but I don't know that we take those down the ordinance related to the sign ordinance passed after that Easter egg hunt item well that's just one but I'm just using an example concert in the park I don't know if those signs were put up in the right of way or not if they were they should not been whether they were city signs or not City Signs Y no matter the ordinance applies to the city as well as everybody else so it should not have been put in the RightWay if there were that was incorrectly done so but it's not we're not picking in anybody or making an example of anybody it's the ordinance that was passed by the council and City staff has to abide by the ordinance pass so yeah I think it doesn't matter who it who or what is I think the city city signs are exempt so example the watering the been watering band signs that's a that's a public notice sign I don't know that I have an issue with that but if we start taking down Dayton car show signs and uh the Heritage signs but not Party in the Park or concert in the park there's a problem there I don't believe there was any exemptions on that ordinance but I could be wrong yeah we're not there there are obvious ones where it's like the OD even I mean the development type signs the signs that are required by government were were Exempted they may have been Exempted not directly in the ordinance but it was clear that they weren't correct applicable but um and we discussed this at the time that what we were doing was throwing out the in my opinion thrown out the baby with the bath water and that's where we ended up with that ordinance so it is frustrating um an FYI I guess yeah see that's great City staff is just fighting by the ordinances that were passed by Council so not picking anybody we're not pick yep we can only do so many at a time when we remove them every week we're once weekly going there's many more signs being taken down than just event signs yeah you should see the back garage I've heard it's full so are pretty healthy signs too yeah MH that's it Travis you have anything no I'm good I have nothing we thank you I've got nothing I sorry all right we are on to console business item K feels like a long walk over uh so item K concept plan for uh the Holland project so this is located at 1185 French Lake Road um so generally it the to give kind of a quick overview the project is on the south side of brunch Lake Road right on the boorder of Dayton Champlain um the whole project is 25 Lots on both the Champlain side and the Dayton side on the Dayton side uh the plan is for I'm going to say about two lots or little in proportions of two other Lots as well as a storm water pond uh what the developer is really looking for first of all is if uh there is support from the council to either I'm going to say Annex either a portion or all of the property this Western Property into Champlin so it's kind of the first question that is posed to the council uh the property boundary is right here I should say the city boundary is right here where we have Dayton and then Champlain um this whole project is is intended to be a continuation of the development that's to the South um then there's other questions about the plant itself but this is sort of the first question the second question I'll come back to this is generally um is if there's anything that uh the council would like to change about this so and I'll go back to the big picture with the concept plan there's no formal action so there's no approval or denial the intent is to get feedback from each council member so whatever one council member say says could completely different than the next one um you all have the the same value for your opinions and then the developer takes that information figures out how it makes sense and moves on with the preim plan um but once again the main question here is if the council is supportive of changing the municipal boundary to either include a portion of the project so we'll call it like Drawing the Line to match the uh drawing the city boundary to matching the property line versus taking the entire property and changing the boundaries so that this whole project is in chling can I ask a question who's asking for the annexation is it the developer of the city or both city of Champlain I my so it is the developer but the Champlain is also requesting it I don't know if that's a formal action of Champlain's Council but that's my intering from Champlain staff we do have the developer here as well to answer questions if we'd like them to where would the pond access be I didn't see that um it it's not shown on here so I what would end up happening is there' be a wider drainage of utilities along one of these lots that would give access provide [Music] access comments yeah or or did you have more I'll start with yeah do if you have comments or questions I I don't see the advantage to the annexation piece I think we're giving something away and we're not getting anything for it so so at this as it stands right now I wouldn't be interested in that um I also think what we get out of this development is a pond in two houses which seems like kind of the uh the short end of something um I think that could go somewhere else in that in that proposed development there's an existing Pond that could be expanded um and I'm not a civil engineer so I not going to pretend I know how much storm water needs to go where but um I think that that where where it's placed is of no advantage to the city of Dayton and uh the two houses that are proposed in the development don't do for me um as that stands I also don't like like the deviation if it's R1 The Narrative talks about reduction in lot sizes um from our standards and I'm not a fan of that either okay I agree with what David said about the annexation the lot sizes and the the layout I know that in our packet on page 159 there was a layout had a bunch of red on it on it I think the city staff must have drawn some yeah that's what it looked like yeah so I don't mind that that looked like it was better I know part of the concern is where this road comes into Dayton and then the next development over the que up space there to get out onto 121st and I think that the plan that was drawn up I'm guessing by the city staff was kind of takes that into account cuz it shifts that road down a little bit more so I think that makes more sense for a a in andout Access and Q Q space and the further development to the West so those are my counts was that John was that your that's my scribble straight line drawing was Jason I don't have that on the PowerPoint oh okay yeah I was just kind of cuz I didn't see any any text associating with that but it it did it looked like a possible solution to the issue sure um I I know I you know I was at the Planning Commission meeting and I kind of agree with all the their findings too um you know I'm okay with with finding somebody to accommodate you know making the the rules consistent across the development between Dayton and Champlin um I don't know if there's any abrupt deviations but um I'd be okay with an merging those rules um but yeah I I know I I guess I agree with most of the plan commission's findings um as far as the the municipal B goes the yeah that the the um that Ro in there it it seemed like that close to 121 is problematic for a couple reasons one is the ghosted in intersection um and uh yeah I think that's that's the bulk of it and is that that second intersection even allowed or that second access to um I I don't think we've had conversations with uh County I think I suspect it's far enough away but I don't know uh mayor and Council I believe that that intersection if there was one would be the only one allowed in this area by the county based on spacing and requirements there that's correct okay y I believe the original ghost plot was provided at some point I believe to the county I don't know I'd have to ask the developer that I don't know but you are correct one access point yeah correct I believe that that is the only access point that would be correct sure are we to the point where anybody has any questions for the developer yeah I'm done I think we're I think we're going to get there okay now yeah I guess go right ahead yeah I don't have anything to add I mean you spoke to everything that between Planning Commission and comments currently made I just I don't see a benefit to us oh that that answers all questions yeah I don't I pass along but fresh out the Press yeah so this this is a an adjustment of the ghost plat that addresses um reines this intersection on the ghost plat so that there is a queuing and then just for the record can we have your name good evening Nathan Fair uh with Landmark development and Jonathan address is 133432 Hansen Boulevard um and I apologize I thought we had an overhead projector here at City Hall but the plat that's being passed around just shows the concern that the Planning Commission had about stacking um and again I think John's done a good job the land to the West we don't own that land it's not under contract so it's just a simply a ghost plat and the Planning Commission really got hung up on stacking and how that area would develop um but as part of application we always show just in the future how could something develop so the ghost blat that's being passed around would definitely um eliminate the concern for stacking of the vehicles at the intersection and there is only really two entrances that the county would allow the oneoff a arrow wood and then possibly Deerwood Lane uh but based on my experience it's very challenging to buy land from hadan County Park District so you're really you're really down to the one entrance um but really the reason why I submitted this application was we are wondering we as a developer and also the city of Champlain um is the city of Dayton open to annexation the full two acres of parcel into the city of J Champlain there was another concept plan that was drawn by City staff that's in your packet it's a very grid pattern um that certainly would work too that allow the two actually there's four lots and would be in Dayton and then the storm water pond in the southwest corner the issue there is it's just it's a very grid pattern it's you're not going to get your high-end homes what we've worked really hard with the city of champlin on is coming up with the best plan to create high-end homes for Champlain and then ultimately eventually funnel into the city of Dayton um to go ahead and try and do one application with the city of Dayton and then one application for the city of Champlain with only two lots it it just kind of becomes a nightmare to be honest with you so the simple very honest solution I'm just asking for it to be annexed in to keep it very simple so I have one city that I get to work with the water and sewer would come from Champlin if we do this current plat we would have to have a joint Powers agreement for water and sewer from the city of Champlain into dayon for these two lots snow plowing for 150 plus or minus feet um the storm Pond that everybody says that's you know we only get a storm water Pond the benefit to Dayton is when the land to the West develops and we would have to work with Champlin to make sure they're okay with this we would do a regional storm water agreement so when the land develops to the West this storm water Pond that we're presenting is oversized right now so the storm water Pond or the storm water would go into call it Champlain's Pond but Dayton would have the right to use Champlain's storm water Pond if the was annexed in so there has been a lot of time and energy put into this plat working with the city of Champlain um and again the only way to find out if Champlain and Dayton are willing to Annex it is do the concept plan is what the city administrator and I talked offline about so that's that's why we're here um I really didn't want Planning Commission to get hung up on again the ghost plat how everything is developed and lot sizes because ultimately it's just easier if I can deal with one city but the direct benefit to the city of Dayton would be this is we call it a regional storm water Pond um and you know fire okay if there's two if for some reason a house started on fire now you got to come through Champlain to get there there's some other small things but the main one would be the regional Pond um with that I'm hope I'm not putting anybody on the spot here but um the city planner is here uh from the city of Champlain he may be able to answer any questions also for you guys but I'm here to answer any questions that the Council may have and uh I appreciate staff's time so far I haven't had a lot of time with staff uh we just simply submitted the application to really see what the council's uh feeling is on the annexation and and ultimately at the end of the day you know if it doesn't work I I get that um it could just come back with one single family home on the Dayton side with a driveway coming off the county road and then you know still a large Regional storm water pond this my original plan that I shared with the city of Champlain was having just one home in Dayton and there wasn't a connection into Dayton and when we got into working with both cities they said you know we would like to see connection for future development here's where I here's where I would go on this I mean to me this is to me it's about business you're in business we can be in business um I would personally be open to the annexation thing if there's more benefit than just the pond to Dayton um because correct me if I'm wrong you make 25 homes you're going to make some money yeah and I I think that's really important to note for the public it's not 25 homes and the public notice that went out was inaccurate also from the city of Dayton and I know some of the Champlain residents were calling me and saying hey there's too many homes um the total plat there's 15 new homes together in the city of Champlain and in get with the of Dayton so I think that's really important cuz the public noce had showed I think 17 um so 15 total New Lots between both cities okay um that's in in material I guess to an extent but you're still going to make some money and my side on the deal is if Champlain gets 17 new homes they're going to collect tax dollars for the next 50 years so you guys are all making money and dayon gets a storm water P Maybe there's some sort of a a number that comes up that Dayton gets as far as a financial some Financial coverage on the deal that that'd be a conversation that I think that should be had but I mean if nobody's open to the conversation then it doesn't happen yeah I think it gets quite complicated on that conversation I mean at the end of the day uh as a land owner we have a right just to build one single family home there and that you know and ultimately we don't get the connection point then I think the long-term benefit of both both communities want to play together is we're coming together putting long-term connection we have a very good land plan versus this grid pattern where I think there was eight single family homes backing up to a busy County Road um we've limited how many homes would back up to the county road again the storm water Pond is in the right spot without getting too technical for eofs and um and Jason's plan worked out well too with the storm water Pond the the whatever the up against the park but it's this grid pattern you don't get high-end home value is when you just have straight roads okay U and again backing up to a busy road we've limited how many homes back up to a busy road so just wanted to present if it's not you know if it's not open for discussion on the annexation I get it I mean there there really isn't much give and take it's there's a regional Pond that allows the land to the west to be developed in a high-end matter okay and I don't want to be rude on how I'm delivering that message but that's how simple it really is in my so John the the one option you showed with just the little jog in the in the property in the D in the B yeah that middle one that leaves us with you know we we get a house out of the deal but um primarily what my concern would be is that we now own that pond um to maintain it right and what's that mean more work for Marty I know but can we like quantify that or do we know what that liability is I mean you would want that liability publicly that that's not a liability that you'd want because again we're benefiting from the 12 or 14 Lots in Champlain where the storm water Pond is going in there there would have to be a mutual agreement from the city of Champlain that Champlin would actually maintain that pond I mean just again being trying to be very transparent um well if I mean if we were if if let's say you were doing the leftest side also then this discussion I mean it' be a different discussion then it would be a joint powers agreement with this is a regional Pond yeah um and maybe Jason can speak two or two on how it's done uh you would PR rate xmo and a lot St yeah you can you can enter an agreement with me it's based on areas or flows or however you want to craft it but it' be either a shared or solely re assign maintenance dep on either way this is a regional Pond that benefits both cities yeah I get that I get that um it's just that that stuff on the west is do you expect the the ghost platted area when do you expect that to develop it it could be 20 years I mean um you know there's one land owner that is lukewarm of selling but you have F I think there's five land owners there and ideally to put together the nicest neighborhood you'd want to assemble all Parcels um again I guess what I'm looking for is just clear direction if there's If there really is an interest in annexing the land into Champlain then it at least allows me to go back and say okay we won't show a connection into dayon and then ultimately was Champlin really going to like that I mean we keep hearing having two aises in case of emergency it's good for everyone yeah to refresh your memory um I just did Bower Berry Farm mhm then there was a through street that stubbed right up to Champlain MH and there was no connection still yeah still yeah cities don't have to connect in the perfect world connection is is good but um it it doesn't have to connect no wasn't there a plan connection there from the city of Dayton and you decided not to connect there was direction from the city of champlin not to connect correct yeah it's a little different on bber Farm I think cuz there is another Connection in that neighborhood you get to go to the west or to the east right through 131st and then down through Valley Ford say Valley Ford right so there's a little bit of a difference here um I think Champlain needs this connection more than we do to be honest with you cuz they have a 100 homes in that in that neighborhood there and I think the city planner probably speak to it as well as that you kind of need another Connection in that neighborhood especially if you're going to you know have them many homes there yeah again I don't want to get into that if I I don't want to get into either but you did mention something about bar bar Farm which isn't exactly true so I know that you say that there's a through Street there which should have been connected but that's a chanceful thing not us okay I'll also add in your comment you don't want roads backed up to Abyss Street you got half a dozen dozen Plus Homes backed up to that busy street so I have a hard time believing that's going to change anything and this whole grid idea I don't think having a straight street is going to affect your ability to sell homes so I I no worries again I'm not you're saying but I feel like you're selling us a a you're telling us what what you may think but I don't know if there's any real Merit to it is what I'm trying to say you know again at the end of the day that's um I think I've got clear direction that you guys are an open annexation and one single family can be built on the Holland parcel um and there's you know we can just leave it at that I mean and you're not open to any any compensation back I don't know what the compens just I don't what the conversation is there that's a conversation that can be had I mean I don't have a number in my mind but no I'm not comfortable making that decision like right here right no no I understand that but that's what the conversation they can have but you get Champlain together you get Nathan together and you get Zack together and if there's a number that you come to I mean the guy the people that benefit the most are you and Champlin without question I can mean we we could just say no and save them all the work I think ultimately if I can just get clear direction that the this council is not open to annexing the two acres into Champlain does Champlain want to give us the other acreage this way swap that could Happ just what I'm not here the request is is the council open to two Aces um and if there is not you know if you're not open to it I understand that there's a regional Pond that would benefit the land to the West that's really the the I guess only benefit if you will to the city of Dayton um either it works or it doesn't the annexation doesn't happen how do you do the pond are we I mean do do you do a you know a two care development with the one house and a pond is that really what ends up happening and is that a good solution I mean it seems like I don't know I don't know if we've done that before looking at Jason Marty on History we had a storm water Pond benefiting a plat that's not part of the plat no you probably haven't had that request it's a unique request I we've had offsite ponding for example Bost point right here we used a regional Pond facility but it was outside of the property area that was pled for treatment but it was still still it's not exactly the same here but and it certainly wasn't a Crossing Municipal boundary but it was off offsite out of the plat area on shmer pce on the townhouse is when I develop that yeah we expanded that pond but didn't I mean that was still within our boundaries right right yeah so it's kind of a I mean here what we'd end up with is somehow it a pond in a house and the pond would be on our on our in our boundary either way we're going to get a pound in a house CU what I'm hearing is we're not here to talk about it we're here to either say yes or no I'm trying to be very transparent those are the options that are on the right now if it's annexed then we don't that's the correct yeah but if we don't Annex it we get a house in a pond yeah I I have a question for the city engineer can you or maybe even the city of Champlain planner can you drain storm water into another Community without a jpa I don't know if you I don't if you can that's a general question I literally don't know it's a great question um store water rules would probably prevent that from occurring without acknowledgement or agreement between the cities I would think you'd want to enter an agreement to at least acknowledge it there and then assign responsibility for I guess that just a general question Cole I mean I get I'm not saying you can't build the pond in a in a house there but then you'd have to have a jpa from the council and if they're not going to want a pond then it's going to really be difficult to have a pond no this was easier when when we had the crappy ghost plating but now that you've given us this different ghost plating some of those issues go away and and I don't know where we go from here so now we haven't had a plan commission look at what we're talking about I mean this still the concept plan so I guess the general question still is the annexation por correct and I I really that's a general question you want an if you don't then then it makes it easier for the developer cuz yeah that's there probably is even if we don't Annex it I feel like there's a middle ground here if everyone's willing to play ball that's what I feel at least maybe I'm the only one that feels that way but I think there's a way to make this work without annexing the land it does seem like if the parties want to work together which I think we're willing to work on a solution that follows that way where what I'm hearing is you don't want that you either yeah it gets it just gets challenging again different Park dedication fees now you're marketing this neighborhood you got two lots and dat and it just the the easy solution I'm not saying it's not easy I'm not saying this I'm not saying my solution is easy Sol I'm saying there is a good solution in the middle here where everyone walks away and no one's 100% happy but it we can make it work to me that's a good solution yeah the annexing just it does bother me because we walk away with nothing um but and and that's respectful I mean if that's uh your opinion on it that's fine well me sounds like that's where we're at okay is that where we're at everybody mhm that's where I'm at that's where we're at excellent thank you thank you all right um I a mail Park improvements so um we have uh had the the project delayed a little bit um and I know the council has had some questions about this um so have invited Paul to give us an update on what we're at with uh irrigation Bridges what we can achieve this year um and what we are looking to do for next year and a time uh an approximate timeline for that project this is not enough yeah good evening hey Paul Paul Kangas uh office address 14165 James Road and Rogers home address 18601 152nd Avenue in Dayton Marty asked me to attend to answer any questions you have regarding many of the projects uh that we're looking at um I know there's been delays that haven't been well received by some of uh the council members but there's good reasons for those delays and as a citizen of Dayton one of my main goals is to make sure that we make the best use of whatever funding resources you put in front of the Parks Commission and and myself as your Park design consultant so there is no agenda there was nothing in the um the packet to respond to so fire away I guess that the one of the last updates Mar said that there was some just uh backups that were happening I guess maybe you can just kind of speak to some of those um regarding as far as like what those things are you know what kind of hiccups we came across and sure may just from your your perspective yeah so just so everyone's clear what the projects are um at early in the year we were looking at trying to lump three different design projects into one bid document uh oh for public bid that would have included phase three of LC Stevens Park which was generally uh Gathering shelter picnic shelter um a potential revision to the performance area and some minor ancillary improvements um a gate at the Old Entrance Park signage and irrigation uh the second project was uh parks service area 21 uh which was the area around Sundance Woods that's essentially a new neighborhood park um and the third project was a small Improvement to ion Gardens previously develop her own part now controlled by the city and that was primarily a very small seeding area and irrigation um through a number of different Avenues I guess we encountered delays um the the neighborhood meetings at Sundance Woods did not happen until late February um and that basically got us through conceptual design and so in any design project you have conceptual design design Development and Construction design we weren't even through design development we didn't have firm layouts in mind at that point um we didn't exactly know what the project elements were there was some uh budget considerations there were some land ownership considerations you don't control all of the land that that Park is intended to cover um so the biggest mistake that that I made in this whole process was telling Marty yes I told him that I thought we could meet a design schedule that was really aggressive and it wasn't true we weren't far enough along we didn't have an existing conditions survey out at LC Stevens Park uh because of the toppo changes that were made during phase two um and it just became a situation where I couldn't in good conscious um commit to putting out construction documents that would have resulted in good bid results and it would have been foolish to put out those documents knowing that change orders were likely or probable um it's not a good position for me it's not a good position for the council and I've heard loud and clear over the years that you guys don't like change of we try to avoid them and quite honestly we've done a really good job of um constructing the parks within the budgets that you've allocated so we have a very strong history of of managing those well and maximizing the value to the city so the Bridge Project at LC Stevens uh currently is proposed to be separated as a standalone project it's a large enough construction project uh the bridge design is done the soil borings are done the contractors have told us they would prefer to do that project during winter conditions where the storm water flowing through the Ravine that that bridge covers would be less of a challenge so the current thought is to put those documents out for bid it will exceed the threshold of 175,000 put those out for bid early fall October most likely end of October and then construct it through the winter months what that doesn't cover is any improvements at the the stage for LC Stevens uh or the picnic shelter that I mentioned or some of those small projects that really could or could not be part of a public design package those could be done separately um PSA 21 Sundance Woods I call it um that one we've not really clearly defined a schedule for U but the thought that Marty and I have discussed was basically operating under the same schedule that we were trying to achieve this past year but putting it out a bid earlier uh in 202 five so there's a preferred bid window of generally February March where you try to get your documents out people are ramping up for the season they're getting their projects in hand um that's the window that we'd like to hit okay Paul do you have a Gant chart that shows any of this timing so we can work backwards I mean project management something lot I mean I work with it all the time and they've got a chart that shows like here's the project and here's the dates and here's the chunks of time it's going to take to do this and here's the next project that shows that so to help us understand kind of what this is looking like cuz my other concern is I don't want to miss the next set of deadlines and so that putting that on paper and everyone's saying yeah this is the timelin we with everything to get done then we all know what that looks like and we're all on the same page cuz we keep get in vague terms it's hard to to Really narrow down what that would looks like and my bigger concern is making sure that if we want to have these things done early spring that we've got enough time we've worked that chart backwards to ensure that we've got enough time to get it all done sure I don't work with Gant software but we work with absolutely some we we've laid out between Marty and I we've talked about many different options there's been some adjustments that as we've uh pulled irrigation out of the projects and those are the other projects that I should note we've been looking at uh irrigation for five different Park sites basically I think it was an internal staff um request to to try to get better grass at the park sites you know we built two two and a half Parks during some really droughty years and the seed struggled to take uh I think that's what started the conversation at the staff level about irrigation so I've been tasked with putting together rfqs for irrigation and uh water supply and electrical supply CU at the five different Park sites there's a mix of Wells portable water uh through municipal but there's also limited power so it's a multi-headed monster right now we've broke it into two rfqs one for irrigation the other for water and electrical supply which is basically Wells so three of the parks will operate off of a well either existing or new two would be new one would be existing other two parks which would be ion Gardens and um the East half of Sundance greens would operate off a potable Supply so those documents are ready to go um we'll probably have them we will have them if you want to move forward uh with um authorization to bid next meeting we need to get those out on the street but it's expensive we're just getting pricing back U this week and it's expensive so anybody else have any questions I don't really have anything good to say so it's probably better I don't say anything um I guess my surprise in in this whole thing was that we you know we had budgeted another phase of LC Stevens for this this year seemed like we've been kind of doing the plan one year and construct the next year and uh so we we budgeted funds for that we weren't aware until pretty late in the spring that it was not going to happen and so I think better communication would have helped ease that pain a little bit if if it wasn't going to happen it would have been nice to know before it was we're kind of into the season where we expected to to get going get some beds out get something done um so that for me um you mentioned the bridge being a separate um broken out as a separate project what kind of Premium do you expect us to see for um winter conditions related to this Construction in that particular case it's not necessarily a premium because you're paying a premium either way you're you're paying a premium for dewatering if it's an actively flowing Creek you know rain like last night or in a frozen condition you're paying uh winter conditions so I think the intent is to make that more certain knowing that it's going to be Frozen and and having unnown issue to work around rather than the unknown which is when is it going to rain it didn't rain for two and a half years very much uh and now it rains all the time so so you you think that there isn't much there if at all because of the change in what you're doing here I think it's an expensive project it's always been an expensive project but I don't think that we are paying extraordinarily more for winter conditions than we would be for dewatering and the the mother nature unknown that a contractor would have to build into their bid to to construct with no certainty about okay that's fair are we past the point where we're providing um soil conditions because everybody seems to be surprised that there's mud by the river uh we are going to offer the construction or the uh the soil borings as part of the construction documents and let them make their own interpretations based on that information that information was not available when the bids were received for the 2022 pip which is what you're referring to for that project we put it on the contractor to do a basically a design build bridge and why did we do that we did that so that you wouldn't have to pay for all the engineering the soil barings and everything that you would have to pay up front it it's not it's not saving you money it's just are you spending money up front before you know what the bids are or you spending money paying the contractor to do that it's six of one half does the other differ not not quite I mean if if we don't know it's you know if we don't know it's going to be an ad then yeah the the total ends up being the same but it's not in our budget I would like less surprises yeah if we have to do our own soil boarding so we don't get that that we get on every project unexpected soil conditions right everybody I hear from says soil and Dayton is is not good for building and so how is that still a surprise but we seem to get it on every project we do I I don't think anybody likes surprises council member um in all fairness you as the council added phase three of LC Stevens phase two of LC Stevens very late in the game that was not originally part of the 2022 pit package we worked really hard to get documents ready but there was no time to do those soil borings that's why we took the approach that we did to put it on a design build contractor um contractor basis uh for the bridge itself that was one element of that part project but it was there was no time to do what you're asking for that particular incident but we have not we have time now sure and we have the data now yeah I'm I mean we can't fix what's been done but I just like not to keep repeating ourselves that's because those Bings came back nasty which yeah surpris came back very poor so it does seem like you know I don't I I hear what you're saying I I will own any any fault for myself we as consultants tend to be uh not yes men in a negative way but we try to we try to meet our clients needs right it's a service business we don't sell drawings we sell a service my mistake was saying yes it was never a realistic time frame I should have said no and you would not have found anybody else that would have met that time frame either so I've given a lot back to this city in uh being a member of the Planning Commission for over 10 years I do many projects that you never see that you don't see the bill for and I do get paid for some of my work but I don't get paid for all of it so you have to take some of the good with the bad I'm a small office and that presents certain challenges but when I have deadlines to meet they generally get met I should not have said yes but I did and that was my fault but it was not a realistic time frame it's over $1.5 million dollar at that time it was a million and half dollars of construction it'll get broken out differently you will pay a fraction to IA that you would pay any other firm and you might ask why because I can I'm a small office I don't have a huge overhead I don't do it quite frankly for the money anymore I do it for people that I like to work with fortunately I like working with Marty if I didn't like working with Marty I wouldn't do the projects anymore everybody likes working with Marty it's the accent it's got ACC to be to be clear Paul I don't want to Hash up the past that's why I'm asking what the future looks like and what the I I think actually sitting down whether you Marty do it together or you do it and send it to Marty and Marty says hey can we speed this up with this look like I think having that documented that you two are on the same page I think as David mentioned it's a to me this is a communication breakdown somewhere and there's a lot of moving pieces on this there's a lot of different parks that play plus extra ancillary things so I could easily see how how all of that could kind of snowball but I think having it documented and like okay for this park this is the timeline we need and doing that out in some kind of waterfall Gant CH chart would be really helpful just to document it that's also really good too because if we have that and then citizens want to know where we're at we can post it on the site we can say here's the plan for the timing what it's going to look like here's six months out of when the public hearing is going to be all these things are really helpful so people can plan and we can communicate better to the to the citizens like yourself of Dayton so everyone's in the know so that would be my biggest takeaway from again not trying to place blame for what happened in the past but if I look at this from the outside that's was the big breakdown is I think we just didn't properly document everything we fell behind and then you know so I think we just we need to make sure that if we need to start now on things we're starting right now on things and I'd rather be a month ahead than 3 months behind so and at least that's where I'd rather be than than the UPS because I think now we've all come to the conclusion it's not going to happen this year so we just need to make sure that it all gets done next year and I think the earlier in the year we can get it done in the spring versus the fall where we can would be better in my opinion so that's that's my two cents I agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying about establishing a clear time frame a clear realistic time frame I was very upfront with Marty um many emails many Renditions of the schedule and for a variety of reasons we tried and I failed but I shouldn't have tried so uh we will make it work and that's the first time I fail uh for you guys so hopefully you can understand and appreciate that there's been a lot of projects that have gone very well and I feel free I do Consulting for a living so the old adage of under promise overd deliver I think is one that maybe we missed on this one yeah I'm saying what I think also needs to happen is having very clear um there was a lot of Renditions a lot of Park commission versus city council versus staff meetings there was not a clear process for making decisions that were based on real numbers um you guys had some Cadillac Dreams and pinol budgets that created some unique challenges um and and I'm going to push very hard with what we know now about some of these things and say yes you can if you have another quarter a million or whatever those numbers are I'm just throwing out random ex uh numbers but you know we're not magicians we don't make the bids come in how we want them to come in and you've got some really hard decisions to make and um you know we'll help you do that but there are some really hard decisions that have to be made about what is the future of LC Stevens BSA 21 is other than the fact you don't own half the land that you want to put a park on we can overcome that but there's some hard decisions and costs aren't going down they haven't actually they are starting to come down a little bit but they haven't come down enough and they probably won't so you guys are going to have uh some decisions to make and it won't make all the residents happy but we'll help you get there [Music] I've got nothing else thank you I'm good thank you thank [Applause] you all right we are on to item M good evening mayor members of council um this was brought up by L TR related to term limits on or commissions overall um myself and Amy venting decided to try to do some research from just for neighboring communities for what other communities are doing again it's not the sole decision but it does help with providing some context to what other communities do um again staff has no recommendation on this we are just providing context and information so we'll hand it back I would say to Cil trro CU he's the one who brought the item up and um go from there yeah so I I again I have no um I don't think we have a problem right now but I think it's one of those things that I think we should talk about and look at I appreciate the work that um staff did I I looking at this I I like the way that Blain did it where they have a way where if you know it's unanimous that the council wants to keep them on then they stay on and it's good to go beyond that um I I just think having ends to terms is not a bad thing in my opinion but I'm not like gung-ho we got to do this or gung-ho we don't I just I feel like we should have a discussion about why why are you concerned that simply I mean when a term ends um we then can vote that new person in or or not why is that not good enough I didn't say it wasn't good enough I just think having a a known turn date isn't a bad thing yeah so I wanted to have this discussion and I don't have a and I don't have a conclusion in mind but I thought we should talk about it and to your um question Dennis I I think one example of this because we we have more we struggle more on the other end uh getting community members involved and willing to serve on the commissions versus people not willing to move on um what I what I think we've experienced though is that because of that recruiting problem I'll call it um we someone's term expires and we have one application and it's that person so we really don't we don't look around we just sort of Kick the Can down the road on it and and so that that's where I can one example where I can see where a term limit would would force us to you know keep a position open until we got some additional uh applicants has this been a big problem no I don't think so well so recently we had that same issue with Parks um where we could have gotten a member reup and um I think we we pushed the posting out again mhm am I confusing that was the they didn't apply um Parkson he didn't play the first time around mhm right um so then we ended up with two applicants and we dumped the one and put in the other one I personally I think the problem is is that when I talk to people in the community they're not even aware and I don't know where you place blame on this uh advertising I don't know but they're not even aware there's an opening um so I I I don't know what could you do better in that I mean it's and to me that's a different discussion do you think that there's also a status and again I don't have a preference but do you think there's a status quo around like oh well we know these five people are on there so I don't need to apply cuz they'll just keep applying like they're the ones that are always stepping up so I don't need to step up but if they they couldn't step up anymore someone else might step up and take that role you could say that I guess I don't disagree I think I think the example you brought up mayor is a good one at which like you know we had it gave it extra time and we got more applicants because of that so I don't I don't think that's a bad thing no I just have a hard time like David said when there's one applicant it's the current one and there's no other no one else to choose from but the reality is is that is the the problem and so what do you do then if somebody term limits out and we got no replacement you just leave it empty I I don't know I I just I don't know maybe the answer isn't this maybe the answer is we post for everything for three months instead of one month maybe that would help I don't again I don't know what the the answer is I just I think as our community grows we've got more people that are are willing to get involved maybe they don't know that they could get involved but when I talk to people they're like oh I wish I could get well there was an opening for two months you know no one applied for it yes you know and so and we're going to appoint an Eda member tonight or may may not be appointing an Eda member tonight and as part of that you know that was open for months and months and months and it was you know took a while to get someone in there so or to get someone to apply for it so I don't know I just it it could very well be that that's an answer to get more applicants like I said there's there's a lot of openings that I've seen over the years that people didn't even know about and fairness to staff I mean I follow the city on Facebook they're posted on Facebook they we talked to about in the City Council meetings it's in the minutes it is but a lot of people don't look at the me minutes they don't disagree so I agree with you wholeheartly on that I guess and from my op have any creative ways to advertise it I think that would be helpful as well I know put a sign out front it works for the fire department okay it's just it's a simple like it it's something simple to try we already have the means what I'm hearing this conversation say is that we have an advertising issue we we simply put it on the website and we expect people to stumble across that we don't actively pursue these things so yeah I was going to add um last year at the open house we did invite the commissions where we Haven it in previous years and I think that is to get exposure to our commissions and sure so people can ask questions and know that nothing related to the sign or thing that we talked about earlier I'm just saying signs work cuz if it's on your way to work you stop you see put in the exactly when I'm just saying when we do that event can we could have applic could we have people pre-apply so that they're at the event yeah when something comes up interested you give us your information then when the applic when it comes open we pull those out of the drawer and we got four people we reach out to them and say you still interested cuz that may be a way then to do it absolutely yep everyone can apply at any time you kind of done that in the past where there was an opening after the fact and you had these applicants I don't remember what it was might have to park but you called them up and said he still interested mhm so we could do that by have people pre-apply for when the opening because they come up every year on every commission so so find the website except for that's the only one that I don't know but um the other two ju you can yeah as far as like term limits I guess we should just discuss you know you know what benefit do we think that that would serve Dayton and and and start there I guess I maybe it's even asking you know some of these other ones that do have terminals like hey why why have you done that you know what's do you have history do you have are you pervy to anything that you know might benefit us that's the conversation I know I can do it too you know but I think those are things like I see this you know a huge list of No Limits so it's kind of like well I guess but then I look at the names I'm like well they're pretty well built out already except for you know a few but you know does that mean something does that not I don't know I think to your guys's point it deserves the conversation but I don't know if term is where we start or if we're having advocacy issues that we should really Hammer that one home first is when we can get more than just one or two applicant for these openings so my my my Optics no I agree that's um you know maybe a separate problem but I that is a real problem that's the one that we face every time an opening comes up is getting a you know a pool of applicants and um well I be fine with you know Finding better ways to do that okay that so I'm getting that we don't want to add ter limits to commission members that's what I'm hearing I sounds like we have advertising problem maybe not right now good discussion thanks Matt I just think that yeah there's a different angle to approach this totally Direction so thank you on to action items item n just for the record you guys said it all I didn't need that anything I'm I'm glad I'm glad you were down there listening at least that item been pass Scott we're on the next it GOC yeah no I I looked at you and you had the I'm done with this should have never been there to beever all right thank Mr the item n is an interm permit for a home extended business to be located at 13551 Norwood Lane um so uh home extended business is essentially it's a business that's in an accessory building uh the app are proposing to locate a a homeschool Cooperative in the building uh this is kind of would be located on here's the house here would be located south of the house uh the city code allows up to 2,000 squ ft for accessory building the applicants proposing about, 1500 sare ft uh with a home extended business it does require 100t setback from neighboring uh homes uh there's about 150 ft uh distance between the two homes so there is space to fit the building building and then with any IEP for a home extend business and it does uh expire in 5 years uh this was considered by the Planning Commission on August 1st uh the commission did recommend approval for it there were a number of residents that did have concerns U about the the use spping appropriate in the this residential neighborhood um and staff is also recommending approval for this um I will say uh generally speaking within the applicant's description there's I think a total of six families that would utilize this for with a total of about 24 kids uh for the building it would need to meet or comply with uh building code and fire code so um as far as is the building large enough for 24 kids that would be decided by the building code so uh the IEP recommended conditions of approval does not address the maximum number of students cuz that would be St opinion is left the building code kind of dictate what that would be and the applicants are here to answer any questions that Council may have you done with here yep does anybody have any uh questions for staff on this I've got one question here about this whole this whole package um I I don't have any problem with the uh the um homeschool deal um I would like the app to get in compliance with the uh the garage ordinance more importantly than anything um that has laxed for I guess I don't really know how long um so this would do that right I mean this the accessory building would take that not yep y yep um I I think I think we as a council should be prived to I understand there's been a uh Communications with City attorney Dennis the mayor staff and the applicants and they've worked out some sort of an agreement on how how how to get to where we need to be y I think quote unquote we should all was that the deal conversation that was brought bring the Planning Commission yeah I heard that too I had the same question I think we should be included in that conversation and those kind of things I mean to me that it's five of us that decide things mhm so I I think what was kind of decided was there was two problems one was the connection between the house and the accessory unit in the house and that uh that so that was an issue there was also an issue with the fact that the garage no longer existed uh I believe that was those were the two issues and uh but I mean basically that discussion for this property put a timeline on fixing those two things that was really what it boiled down to and that timeline is that timeline is do you remember what the timeline is there was a plan had to be discussed and approved by city council um by October 31st and then construction had to be done by July I'm going to look at the applicant July 25 believe that was sometime next summer just to be realistic with time for building and stuff but a plan had to be derived By An approved by Council so as part of this um again as during the discussion it was mentioned to the applicant multiple times and within the individuals that were in the meeting that nothing can be approved at all with the individuals that are in the meeting it has to be approved by Council and so that was the plan that was derived is that they'd have a plan in front of council by October 31st which they are meeting that deadline far in advance but that was correct and then they have to be completed with construction by I think it was June or July of next year there anything else discussed during that me um yes so there was um another property that the applicant owns um had become had to come into Code Compliance and they are working through that process right now um and that was it so that was General discussion with the applicant again I think there was discussions that were had long long ago that were going to try to put behind us here of both sides being at fault in in some way and some while and we're going to move forward with those things that's the idea is we're keeping moving forward so so just for Clear there were no waved fees during that conversation yeah there were waved fees to be able to justify things that had happened in the past by both sides like $6,000 plus in fees correct um they weren't those weren't fees those were um related to the ordinance on um zoning code violations and fines okay that's correct I think that discussion between the attorneys kind of kept us that is correct out of the courtroom so probably ended up saving yeah I think to Scott's point though I think there's five of us that should be making those decisions mhm and the other the other area have an issue and I don't really they don't need anything to have their school in their house they don't need nothing for that however the house isn't up the snu so they're starting school here in like 10 days or something like that September 9th I believe is the day so my concern is is that all of a sudden we're going to go through this year school and sure maybe we get a plan by October 31st but then all of a sudden it ends up being August September member October and there's still no building that's my biggest concern about this whole deal is is the path to follow through with what you say you're going to do hasn't been followed through it is currently being followed through huh it is currently being follow through based on the plan that was discussed and approved by both sides no I mean the past the past the okay the past one sure yeah um and I'll give everybody two a second chance uh so I guess my only concern is that we follow through with what we're going to say else there's people in the audience may want to talk yeah once we're done we'll open it up I'll deal with that okay how do you suppose they follow through with that plan like is that the iup process that kind of well I mean the building's going to have to be up to Cod I mean we don't have we don't control that at all that's a different totally different deal I mean these guys get to figure that out we had nothing involved in it um I mean clearly they can't get the building up anymore I wouldn't think or I'd want the building up before I would imagine right yeah right I could time I mean St have away there's a whole bunch of other things that have happened that that's why we're at this stage now I get it but anyway that's where I am and just I I hope we follow through where we're supposed to go so I'll add cuz I there people are going to come talk anyways but I've heard from I think every neighboring property they're cross the street are touching the property to this property um or or talk to them or both um I think the we've had one I've had one prop owner that's has no problem with it so I think the shift of where the building is makes the most sense based upon that feedback that's my initial piece on um on that I'll add that um I think it's really important that in in the past maybe this property has been the most well taken care of and I think that irks some of the neighbors and I got multiple messages and talked to people and I I could see why I drove down that road when it was in that condition so I could see why and so I would um highly encourage the anses to make sure that that doesn't happen again I guess would be my my biggest thing I think that upset a lot of neighbors and that happen um and I have no problem with the school candly I have neighbors at home school I think the only only difference between this and that is is this seems like a well I happen to do some research cuz I never heard of homeschooling co-ops and um one of them from the Minnesota Association of Christian Home Educators talks about how a homeschool Co-op should not be what they refer to as drop and Shop class situations and I know my neighbors don't do that for them it's more of everyone getting together socializing the kids the parents there the kids are there so I don't know if that's something maybe to to consider As you move forward with this but I think it is um I I don't think it's an issue either way so that' be my two cents you we want the applicant to come up or you have something to say well go ahead yeah I mean I guess the you know we're we're kind of touching around the the meeting that occurred with Dennis and myself and our attorney and the yansy and their attorney and I think that was a good faith effort to try to come to some um resolution recognizing that there were that things could have been done better all the way around I guess I'll just summarize it at that um but the question that's in front of us today and we couldn't have more people there because then it would be a quorum and then we're having a council meeting M right so you know right wrong that was the logic about why that happened that way um I don't know I'm restricting my thoughts around this about the iup you know it's not whether or not the yanes would be good neighbors or not or what their history is with renters um we're also really not talking about the the building because that's a building code process you know with the Zoning for that property dictates what kind of accessory building can go on it how big it can be how it's located all of that gets worked out um bathrooms and anything else that may be required um those things get worked out as part of the the permitting process for the building itself so I'm really just focusing on whether or not this is a an acceptable use um in that neighborhood and that's the only question I that I'm trying to answer for tonight okay do we have questions for the applicant one question I'd have for um how does how does the fact that to me it seems a little odd that you would have the staff or the other the staff probably I don't know that Nathan would know the answer how is it that you could have a garage with whatever you have in a garage as part of a school well it's just where the extended business ends up it's a building code issue and and I can't even and begin to address that but it it's this difference between the area of the building that's occupied by people versus occupied by stuff and you can separate that is what you're saying with a firewall yeah okay fire rated wall okay that's what I wanted to know I don't even know that that's I don't want to get into that conversation because with my wife's business we went through this and I I'm I'm I think Sarah brought this up at the Planning Commission meeting the difference between those two is kind of Bonkers to me you can put it in your house you're good to go you don't need to get an iup you pay 60 bucks it's done you put it in the building next to your house and suddenly then we're it's different it's it's like a whole different world um yeah I but I agree with d we're we're here to talk about the iup and uh yeah so I guess the question to staff is you know this use what what liabilities does the city see um us being up against I I always post the question what's the worst thing that could happen with with the iup or or this you know staff discussed talked about things of that nature I guess as far as the worst case if whether the council says yes or no to it or approves it or denies it or I don't think the city holds any liability the property own does I did I get that you're just wondering what could go wrong what yeah I I guess what what would be the city's liability I guess in the sense that they you know I don't know I just look at the Optics like if you know it's just used as a as a shed you know I look you do the math here a little bit maybe it's like 2% of the time it's got a school in it and the rest is probably used for storage but I I I I don't know I don't know it's I heard at planning what I'm doing now it's just just what if pigs had wings may maybe [Music] maybe just just do we have any applicant or questions for the applicant or not because otherwise um we can talk about um residents have questions for coming up no questions for that I'm I'm fine okay so I'm I'm going to allow comments from the public but I would like them to IR relevant um we are not talking about specifics about the accessory building um we can certainly include where it's at um and uh yeah um we'll put a three minute limit on it so if anybody does have any comments they can come forward come on forward state your name and address that would be Paula Irvin 12465 137th Avenue Dayton Minnesota 55327 um I I'm really so my first thing is I am very very surprised that the planning committee even okayed this they didn't have a plan they had nothing coming into this my my thought is they were com you were going you were seeing this as going in blind and now I come into this and this meeting and you guys have okayed it it's like everything's hung Mony Dory shame on you guys for letting everything occur that happened it should never have happened so I don't know the specifics of all of it but not happy so with that being said obviously I don't have any say on what's going to happen in my neighborhood because everybody's going to okay it and how many people come to your neighbors in home school I am like just I'm irritated they just have a GA do you have 25 20 just probably close to that yeah okay we've had them I have I have the same thing three Three Doors Down okay all right like six or seven cars to P but the whole family is going it's not it's more socializing than is homeschooling it's it's in my mind in this situation it's no different than me having a bunch of friends over and the kids playing okay that's really what's going on and then the other thing is there's a a gully that separates their yard from my yard yeah I don't want to see any kids in that Gully even close to it because I'm concerned with kids getting in stuck in the mud or whatever and I don't want to be liable for one of their kids or school kids ending up just for clarity can you can you provide which which one is yours I I didn't get an address or hear are you on the North side are you just North I'm 137 so you're up one more one more left no no no that's no left go left there no too far she's the she's the property north of the immediately nor the next okay so there's a what you're saying is there's a there's a gully in your yard there's a in your yard in part of my yard and in it is that's the sewer line the sewer line most a utility spot right yeah yeah okay the sewer most of it's in my yard it just kind of angles but right now it's a rainy year it's saturated very very saturated it's a risky situation yeah you won't get a lwn more down there or anything so since I don't have nobody cares about my opinions obviously I'm sorry it's not that we it's not that we're saying that yeah it's that he is obligated to build a garage I understand that as far as the homeschool thing he doesn't even need to come to us for that okay all right so my concern then for you is the Gully and if you're going to be having 25 kids running around so I don't know if there's we we probably have a lot of areas in the city I mean behind my house is a pond okay and I can't tell you how many you know times we brought the kids back there um from these groups um the neighbors also bring the kids back um there's been boats on there so you do have that risk um especially where there's water it tends to attract kids kids correct and if they start seeing Crites then it really starts I understand that but yeah go IES say just to put it in into like somewhat perspective like um down by my house I have um the disc golf course and I talk to the neighbors that are around there and you know just the other day that the parking lot was full had to have been at least you know 20 25 some odd people there too so the concerns I feel like that would emulate there could emulate here too but you know again it goes back to the point like we do it at the city then why can't we let somebody else do it too that's why I feel like the ordinance isn't at like down to that kind of finite detail um so I mean that's just a perspective point that just one of those things that crossed my mind as as this packet was put together and I was thinking about this so that's the the noise that could generate from that disc off course could easily be generated here as well mhm so and I do realize you know there's the noise and everything but when we moved in here we knew there was a school there we didn't foresee a co-op in the neighborhood I didn't either but I think that we are yeah I didn't anticipate 11 houses up against my property but I just I don't understand that in the neighborhood because they're usually not in neighborhoods they're usually in churches and they're usually and and we're talking co-ops not getting together with your other families and everything you know and things like that so okay I don't know that I get too hung up on the name they didn't have to call it a co-op they could they could just say it's Nathan's home school you know I mean I don't know that I did hung up with too much on the Co-Op part of it to me that doesn't really add any I just flare in it let me just put it this way gentlemen I'm going to be retiring and I'm getting old M all right don't like little kids around anymore I appreciate you coming up love my granddaughter but I am you can get them back right you got about this much time well thank you for coming up full of Jolly Ranchers in Mountain Dew here you go y I thank you anybody else that's it do we have anybody online that um so if anyone online want wanted to speak on this topic they can use the raise your hand function I'm so I do have someone who wants to talk okay um so for the record you will need to state your name and address I don't I okay you're being asked to be unmuted can you please unmute yourself okay well okay so um I think I speed my only concerns I'm going to I'm going I want to add a comment just for the public side of it I guess as far as the plan or idea that what they're doing that's all going to come before the engineers and and and John the building itself will have to be approved by them and we'll get to see it again but they're going to have to meet whatever criteria they got to do for the building so and just to add a Clarity so with an interim use permit this is another way to look at it it's a permitted use with conditions and so the intent of the conditions is toy to mitigate any nuisance factors that might occur with whatever that use is so in this case and it's going to be different for every IEP so in this case the the nuisance is whatever you can imagine that uh 24 25 kids might create it'd be different if this were a home business with a lawn care or something else so it's different for every case Automotive making noise generating noise out of the out of the unit you have things of that nature okay right would you want to add another comment sure come on up come on up name and address Jamie wisnoski 13600 Norwood Lane North I am across from the red splatch um I know at the Planning Commission we tried to put a number at that meeting a number on the children and we keep going with 25 but I don't think that's ever been set with this condition or this permit is there a number could it go we're all thinking 25 and now there's 100 um so staff's recommendation is that it would be set by what the building code would it be allowed so the the building as far as I know hasn't been designed yet so it's going to vary depending on how much space is allocated for the occupancy is dependent upon the square footage of the actual building right the maximum occupancy inside that footprint cuz homeschooling is pretty darn popular now I I would do it if I had a young child honestly so as more children are born and how long this goes I see that number possibly growing I don't know Nathan and Megan if you have any idea like numbers or not I don't think it was set yeah we definitely won't have 100 kids 25 okay I just didn't think that we' had a number set on it I'm just curious they're not on mic but yeah what they're saying is they don't plan on growing gr and I think that became clear at the Planning Commission meeting but I I thought I had maybe it was the Planning Commission numbers that I'm thinking of but you're saying now it's just the limit is the what building code allows yes correct okay that's currently the limit I mean we could set a limit I mean you could I mean there's realistically there's no way to enforce that if it's 25 kids and they have 26 we're not going to that would be my okay and then is there say that again I missed that not trying to pick on anybody but literally I missed I missed that I'm sorry okay I missed this conversation I I think Dennis was was clarifying that they're not planing on the Y aren't planning on growing far more larger than what you're having in your application so once again it's it's a 20 25 I the number is fluid we had but it's it's going to probably be less than that we had three or four families drop out just 5 days ago so the number is fluid I we 25 would be the max do okay sorry the applicate is not on the mic so I want to make sure that everyone hears it on the mic theant mentioned that 25 would be pupp with the max I know that they mentioned in their application possibly 30 but again we're it's a fluid number it can varry a little bit but right it does depend on if if we're talking about 259 Yan or including sure I think what we're trying to do at staff level just say whatever the occupant load is of the building they're going to put together that's what we're going to utilize so that way we have something to back on with the building code and so how we make it work correct exactly the building could be 40 depending on the size yeah so the based on the accessory building size to answer your question and is there a set hours of operation that we will be aware of as neighbors like three days a week 8 to 10 or something will is that anything that'll be privy to us and that this license will limit a time I believe in their letter to us to the city in the iup it says it's Mondays Tuesdays and Thursdays from 9:00 to 1: p.m. 9:00 a.m. to 1 p.m. right and this it says we have approximately 20 students between the ages of 7 and 14 two licensed teachers and parents of the students who serve as independent contractors okay so if it expands from that would they have to come and get a ask for a change just don't know how it works sure so that there's no condition that limits the days and hours of operation the city code does limit it but that's um 10 p.m. so 10 p.m. 10 p.m. right so it'd be similar if someone were to operate a home business you know anywhere else they have a limit of of working there till 10 p.m. so we could have homeschool dances up to 10 p.m. I'd hope you get invited right I know comp with the noise ordinances yeah so that's with the with the iup that's in front of the council currently I do not believe there's any requirements for those the council can add restrictions on the iup if they'd like to we should just we should have the talk about it see from there it's up to the council that's the question is the council can make requirements on the iup that would be more restrictive than current code but that essentially if they don't have anything in there it goes by current code so that would be 10 p.m. or I don't know when it starts but yeah 7: a.m. 7: a.m. to 10 p.m. 7: a.m. yes that that's based on K Cod all right that's yeah any extended business can mhm correct I think I've I've expressed my opinion to all of you in the past so I'm need to go into it now and thank you I appreciate the conversation yeah thank you um all right so are we looking at putting restrictions for hours is that what you're talking about I'm G to rise some stuff down have a problem with I think we do that now we could we could just get some things hashed out real quick I think and you do have one online that's on system okay okay not saying you have to take yeah go ahead uh so hutner um if you can unmute yourself and can I get your name and address please hello can you hear me yep yep okay h Shar Dayton Eda uh 13531 Boston Lane maybe I missed it this is a homebased business will they be filing for a 503c or how does this tax go with a school I mean are they going to be applying for state grants how does this affect our tax load are you asking if there will be a tax exempt that too no well I I guess I won't answer that that would be an aing question but I find it hard to believe they could yeah but just based on number of hours I think that's our jurisdiction that I'm aware of the city isn't yeah I would add typically with a home business and accessory building we would uh notify henen County that change or that change in the use of the building it'd be up to the county to decide how they're going to assess that if it's going to be any different uh for a homebased school versus a a different commercial operation no different than we do any other business home yeah that answer your uh question ttim yes it does okay yes it does it um I would just concern that it would be a a wash through later and in their permitting fees do who would be inspecting the school to make sure they in compliance it's no different than any other iuk I think we are I don't know that we always check compliance we is this for new building it would be Metro West is there the building but the key oh we would verify with an inspection typ once the operations up and running or or if they're already up and running then we would verify with an onsite inspection tipul John completes the outside inspection just to make sure that they're following the iup to begin with for the I requirements did you catch that Tim uh I heard everybody's talking at the same time so basically it would be um do we do that yearly so the iup is verified the the intention is to do that yearly we we've not been able to in the past mhm so essentially it's complaint based that's what I was thinking yeah so it'd be like all the other iups we have that they are expected to comply and um if there's a complaint filed we will investigate the city will check it out but we have some vulnerable citizens here especially if they're children and how does the children complain or does it the parent or I mean there's got to be some mechanism in place here that says with these vulnerable people well well it's an iup so we would make sure they were in compliance with the iup requirements MH understood thank you okay more no thank you we're good okay okay um Nathan do you want to come on up sounds like we have some questions um name and address Nathan and Megan 13551 Norwood Lane okay based on the feedback do you have any issues limiting how late it goes into the day uh I do um I think that um I think for us we we struggle with this the process of this whole process in general because um we are talking about 90% of the people are friends or and family of ours um and uh we see it as a community of people that we get together we spend time together we spend time with these families outside of the school hours themselves and I think that we're setting ourselves up for um some issues if let's say 2:00 runs around or 3 p.m. rolls around and some of these families are staying to hang out with us um I think and then we have neighbors you know reporting us and I I just think that um we we're we're crossing a really scary line as a city by trying to uh regulate a little too much on what people do on their own properties and the freedom that they have um to spend time with the people that they want to spend time with um so yeah I do I do have some concerns with with doing the i i 1 p.m. I totally understand that that makes that makes total sense um so you know we have no issues with that but I think uh um we we would have some issues with uh with the time restriction just because it it could be setting us up for failure and yeah what days of the week so the school the co-op um and I I'm saying School I keep hearing school we have to be very careful it's not a school um so um if it were a school it would be there would be significantly different guidelines from the Minnesota Department of Education um it is a co-op we're all registered homeschool families um so it's Monday Tuesdays and Thursdays from 9:00 a.m. to 1: p.m. uh families will drop off between 8:50 a.m. and and 9:00 a.m. and then they pick up promptly at 1 p.m. um there were some concerns expressed from The Neighbors um at the Planning Commission about traffic um we are talking about about five additional cars um based on the number of kids in each family that would be coming into the neighborhood um so we did uh design a plan where they would come from South Diamond Lake Road and they would enter Norwood Lane from South Diamond Lake Road and then they would go back out on South Diamond Lake Road so that eliminates any additional traffic on 137th and then any properties north of Norwood Lane from our property proper um so that that eliminates that that issue there that's just a suggestion to your users right I mean it's a public road I mean they can right yeah they can they certainly can but thank you for doing the due diligence but I me can we enforce that no not really um so um car pooling I mean there's no reduce it that way anybody else have questions for the applicant um I don't think so I know we're not getting into it but Scott did uh mention something that I just I did want to address you mentioned um not complying and I think that um there's been a narrative surrounding our family about not being in compliance or doing unpermitted things yeah and I just I know we don't want to get into it but I just feel like I need to stay for the record since he did bring it up is um I would I I would be happy to have a conversation with you about that I would look into the facts surrounding it um there are documented facts but that is untrue so that's all I'll say about that I'm talking about the uh the living quarters in the the current home it was all permitted and approved so yeah all right so uh so any other questions about this iup to the applicant all right so we need so I want to clar we're not I just want to make sure we're clear with that P requirements is that you're not adding one for dates or times or changes okay to make sure not that for the record it was brought up in then that's for the motion you mean that'll be with the motion yeah I've got it written out I mean yeah sounds good I mean to me to me you're say you're you're telling us 9 to1 if we give you a couple hours on on the back side of it I mean I don't think it's any big deal in my opinion if your neighbor complains that you have two families that want to stick around for hot dogs after after 3:00 it trust me fly the problem is it's like the science it's like it's like the signs it will be unintended I think this one's unique if it was a normal business it'd be a little more black and white but I think knowing that this is part of a I'm struggling Scott honestly cuz I I was I was hoping you come up and say yeah we won't you know we won't be doing school past 7:00 p.m. so it's not a b deal and then we're okay with that so so that's what I was hoping you cuz I don't I could see the grayness in what exactly what you're saying which is these are people we hang out with all the time these three days a week they're going to be around more often that's why they're here they might hang out later we don't want to get nuisance calls because all of a sudden neighbors aren't happy this is going in or whatever and so they're they're trying to to pick it apart and so I can completely see that and so yeah that's where I'm at I don't I was hoping you'd self-regulate so that we wouldn't have to worry about it but I I can see the great area now I mean you're you're right in the sense that it is I think it would be more you know kind of a self-regulated piece I mean you have to be good stewards to your neighborhood and I mean I mean I I I want to be when I you know I go home I represent the fire department and you know other facets I wear many hats for the city and you know I don't want to you know put a bad image out there myself either but you know I still care about my neighbors and and what you know they they see the neighbor shaping into but you know does it drive a lot of things I I don't know I just think there's something about being a servant leader and and looking that things and being a good Steward through that lens I think you have the capacity to do that you both do but for people that don't we do have cd Orin 100% cork get at 10 yep I can do a lot of my neighbors you know go past that and I think that's part of being the good Steward that you you would know that hey you know I think it's quiet time in the neighborhood we should start playing it down you know whatever the case may be but yeah I mean I just want to mention I our our hours are super intentional the 9 to1 because we don't we want we really value learning through living so we are not trying to do school you know it's 12 hours a week for a very specific reason that's how we view education in life so we don't plan on extending hours and doing all these things I we just are stating that to put restrictions on just living life M um because we also have you know friends that are over or something and like you said you probably will get complaints because and they could even be those members of your Co-op and now you got a car sitting there for beyond the hours and yeah right yeah that's black and white like Scott says it's clear as mud know I think the example you gave you know is a great example of of where confusion could come in about well it's past 3:00 and we turn off the open sign and why why is there still people running around in the yard you know it's how do you just where's the distinction between you know friends and and business associates in this context and I don't think we can I think that the you know the 10 p.m. restriction is there for everybody and I think that that's the best we can do here Y and also all these other families have very busy and full lives so usually on most cases they're ready to the reason we're doing this school option is because we don't want longer days for school so us that's why it's three days a week in 12 hours for the week yep so okay do do we have any objection in my motion I have a limit of 30 students if two years you from now you come back and say hey we need 35 I want you to come back and say that right we would that's not our desire so we're good then yeah okay all right okay you I'm going to make a motion we approve this with a limit of 30 students and I'll go along with you guys on the hours of operation okay so you just want I'm in the IP to add a requirement of maximum of 30 students I a second I think for clarity does that include the residents that live on the property or not mean theal student those are want to make sure we're all on the same page there's no confusion I took 30 students to be both additional families and your own y That's students period stud okay I a second I'll second any more discussion all those in favor say I I hi all those opposed say no motion carries 5 to zero okay thank you both thank Youk you thank you so and regarding the the discussion um with the lawyers that is going to come back to council so it is going to be voted on uh and we can explain more details there um and we made it very clear during that meeting that we would couldn't agree to anything that the five didn't vote on so was that meeting recorded I don't think probably not no but all the conditions will come will be voted on by by uh the council from that meeting from that meeting corre okay item o item o this is a interim use permit for an event center for Magnus veterans Foundation located at 16861 North Diamond Link Road um is the council maybe aware so the council previously approved in interm use permit for veterans foundation in 2021 uh so Magnus is their main focus is on assisting or providing outpatient care to Veterans and their family um it's a nonprofit organization so they're dependent on uh donations um what they're asking for is an interm use permit for an event center that would be used to host uh fundraisers essentially um The Event Center would be located well I'm going to say the Event Center activities would generally be located in I'm going to call refer to it as the backyard that's between the main house or the main structure and the uh the pond here um the parking for the event center would occur in this grassy field uh staff estimates that there's roughly space for 500 to 600 cars I do want to note that it would be on a grass field where has the ordinance requires an improved parking area um this is the third Event Center that that will have uh Fisher Farms which is located across the road does have an improved surface um and uh de's pumpkins does not or has a grass surface uh again uh the access would be off of not uh North Diamond Lake Road on a gravel surface uh with an inter with an event center we do require that the uh applicant subit an emergency management plan so how they would handle any uh type of E Mercy as far as how to get people out and how to keep paths clear to keep to get allow emergency vehicles and Personnel into the property now was that that plan is that just once for the iup it the wording almost made it own like every event no so the the intention is it's one plan that foresees every possible emergency that you this is the intent any possible emergency whether it's a y and so on yeah I'm more Curious it only really matters but in the past I've got events they parked down by the lake is that no longer where they're going to be parking it cuz I believe in the past where the place that you're talking about has been like overflow parking but majority of the parking was down by the lake and at least the events I went to so is that changing or not I would have to have the applicant then I'll thank you I'm just more Curious y goe are you done any questions for staff yeah you want to uh come on forward and uh name and address good evening Mr Mayor members of the council my name is Bob jovac I'm a director and officer and donor and volunteer at Magnus veterans Foundation 16861 North Diamond Lake room um so to that question is are you guys basically moving your parking to that yes sir we anti Spate parking on the on the west lot we now have a gate installed that's locked there so there's no access to that except during an event it's possible that some staff or for instance the Dayton Police have been present at our vents they might Park along the road along the east side employees or staff but public would park in in the area to the West yeah okay any other questions for app that um that access I understand that's event use only and maybe this is a question more for for Jason but the the county allows that does the county allow that I make it a question I don't know if this went through the permitting process but um if it does go through the permitting process they will allow a connection do want to CL I do I did confirm what the county they did they did approve this I wasn't I I was not either I just had to asked the question I a year ago yeah so this property has three driveways which is a little unusual um but uh you know the Event Center is going to be seldomly used so it's not a daily it's kind of like a field access um there's I'm going to refer to as what appears to be the main access that goes to the house there's limited parking uh the majority of I believe employees and um members will be parking or no we'll be accessing uh the Eastern driveway and I know fairness you had emailed us all and invited us out to come out and so I had taken you up on that I thank you for that but you had mentioned we were there that you guys are slowly kind of getting away from a large number of of fundraising events I mean you'll still do some but not like maybe in past year that was has that changed at all since you and I talked or no no it has not we we have found that these large events on our proper proper are volunteer intensive and the the purpose is partly to introduce the public to our services that we offer there but it's principally for fundraising if we we realize that our fundraising is elsewhere we just we can't survive fundraising by having events on our property so this year there will be two not counting a very small trunk Retreat next year there could only be one okay okay we are we are a Wellness Center providing service to Veterans not a Fisher Farms or a Deans mhm that's not the main scope of your practice I don't know say business continuity plan whatever you want to call it right it is yeah any other questions all right thank you thank you thank you thanks Bob a motion second on motion I'll second clarifying question uh sure [Music] Sarah van Aon 1610 South Diamond Lake Road I live a mile less than a mile and a half from Magus um and I'm on the Planning Commission and just a question for clar uh clarification um in the applicant or the application we saw there was mention of the two events that happened in August and September are going past the 8:00 P.M cut off for amplify outdoor music um and so what I am asking you guys to clarify is when you are approving this is it as the ordinance states that the cut off for outdoor Amplified music is 8:00 p.m. even though the events they've run so far which are going through the different process of the special events ordinance which is a completely different process but they've had a later they go 10:30ish for the outdoor Amplified music so I'm just wanting to clarify what you guys are actually approving motion um so just for clarity so in the event center ordinance and I'm just going to read this the hours of operation shall be no later than 9:00 a.m. to 10: p.m. on Sunday through Thursday and 9:00 a.m. to 11: p.m. on Friday and Saturday however she's however in item f it says no swn up amplification systems may be used Outdoors after 8 8 p.m. so as it currently sits with your motion and your second which you currently have on the floor it would be as the section says which would be not past it at 8 p.m it's going to be past 8:00 p.m. yes B just go back again we did ask for a variance on the Amplified music till 10 p.m. for uh both events well there's only one more I mean did you ask for that yes okay but that's not in the iup correct uh correct so and and this is based on a uh large assembly application or that's what was the mechanism of the request I think it was oh yeah because they right so they they submitted an application for the last one they application and we approved that correct now I think to to Serious point going forward I think this question's come up before also these these um these centers I I don't know if and they're going to have they're going to occasionally have um things that that they may want want uh to run late MH um and I don't know how what mechanism we would use to deal with those it would be easier if you you know if you just set a a time limit that applied to every bent um it would be easiest if you applied some sort of recommendation in the iup that's what John think it's only Amplified noise that's cut off at 8 right so after8 events can still happen they get an acoustic guitar there no big deal they just can't have not Amplified not re so what would the process look like I that's I'm sort of yeah reluctant to build it into this event center that can have hours different than the other two event centers that we've approved uh so what does the process look like if if you've got an event where that's that's something you'd really like to do what what is the process for asking for approval for and something probably flows into that is as if we're talking about one or two events a year versus every weekend every weekend um I mean I can I I have no problem with an occasional event dipping into at 10:00 for yeah yeah this is going to be no different than but In fairness you don't live right next door you it's going to be no different I mean he's asking for 10:00 correct yes sir that's so I mean it's no different for for this event than it would be for Party in the Park or concert at the park or whatever you want to call it that's that's I guess so as part of the iup if you approve a 1000 p.m. Amplified music adjustment to the ordinance you would be saying at any time any time they want to have an event you be past 10 p.m. m on the ordinance because the iup would be granting it for the property itself which is what I think your concern is C fashion is that if you approve it an iupp is part of a um what do you want to call it a deviation from the code you're then allowing it at any time whether it's one event or two events or whatever it is you allow it at any time correct yes correct okay yeah I just want to know that there is a process for that request because you're talking about one or two events a year um you know how would that come to us for approval I guess that's so I say everything was said and done and they want to have an event that's going to that's going to have Amplified music past dat how would they request that in the future any AC any the most appropriate way would be in to amend the iup now realistically it would be coming back and saying you know do I have permission to to go till 10:00 and the council would say yes and and we're just not compliant with the IEP um so it would be more more I guess my recommendation would be to set the time limit with the IEP as one of the conditions well my problem with that is is that would we be setting it in compliance with the rest of the would we be setting it to eight and then allowing exceptions or I mean so we so let's say we've seen this come up construction there's something going on and they want to run late they will come to us andly right yeah or start early that would be how you'd have to do it essentially you have to approve a variance if you wanted to have if you set it to the to that event right you'd have to have I've come in and request a variance for hey we're running an event at this time can we go till 10 you'd have to then grant that variance that individually no different than you would be like a pain in for one or two events my concern would be is that's that's you're going to have Bob and maybe he doesn't have that many events so and it isn't necessarily specific to Magnus it's it's I mean we have a few of these now forward and they could be you know running things late I I don't know how we handle exceptions exceptions are handled by the council individ so it's like a basically a variance request okay which is time consuming I don't disagree but that's the only way the only mechanism only mechanis I want say it's not a land use variant so I mean there's a whole set of criteria I would say not a variant an exception an exception extion exception yeah has to be approved by Council individually unfortunately that's the only way to do it okay um if if I may sense you know we have an event planned for September 7th I was going to say so so there's probably an exception one very quickly here that's already approved yeah that's whether they oh that's true that was on the application on last meeting approve that to take place last okay I think we're good then so the motion stands good as is motion would be as is 8 p.m. 800 p.m. is for Amplified music if the applic would like to go pass APM they need to come in and ask for an exception to their in the F or you request it right now and the council can consider that now well no for that event is already okay for future events future we don't have a future one right now so we we don't but that was our intent when coming before here was to get one permit that governs our operations going forward so we don't have to approach the staff corre every single time we're willing to do that yeah it would not cost you any dollars to do that if that's what your question it would not that's I we I'm telling you that it would not cost you any ask for an accept it's not a formal correct process yeah correct but it's still something that would show up on if you wanted to have past APM consent or go through action whatever the case may be it's okay okay that's the transparency piece of it correct got it all right so thank you thank you thanks need a motion in a second we have a motion in second you already got it oh yep I do uh any more discussion all those in favor say I I all those post say no carries 5 to zero we are on to item P good evening members of May mayor and members of council we have done we have rehashed the special event thing already um I wanted to make sure that the update was noted in there that um after we rewatched the meeting last time there was a failed motion but not a passed motion it doesn't have to be a passed motion yeah so I'd like you to make sure clarified for the record that we have a pass motion of a denial question okay so so this really confuse me um there's a motion to not do something is typically out of order um motions are affirmative sure they mean you're going to do something sure and this motion said we're not going to do something so that's what I'm confused about where's the state statute coming at what do you mean so we did not have a motion to deny it we had a motion to that's because denying it is doing nothing we had a motion to amend the special event ordinance fail and it failed we didn't have a successful motion we don't have to have a successful motion then it doesn't ever pass that's why I'm confused yeah but there's nothing to pass it failed haven't we negatively voted things down in the past if we did it was out of order I say cuz we I remember remember the the fun conversation we had about voting no against a yes and yes against a no I remember physically member doing could be I mean we we can do this but I mean I even talked to League about this today there is no motion to not do something sure I just if you if that would if it if it's itching at you we can do this but yeah it's just and the reason why is because it was passed with a motion of an AM amended the motion so I don't know if the original motion would have that's why I'm a little confused and I'm just trying to make sure I I I understand the intent of the council I think I got that with a 3-2 vote of denying it but I just wanted to make sure it's clear that you know that was with an amendment to this special event ordinance there was there could have been another motion that says I'll take it as is there could have been but nobody made that motion cor correct it was just kind of mute point at that point and that's why it's intended by I believe it was intended to deny it I would prer just to have a denial of the motion and then we're just done with it and that's that's that's what I'm looking for all right um so which staff is fine with but we just I just would like to have it for the record all right um so we need when we get to it then we'll need a motion to deny to deny I'll make a motion to deny perfect I'll second all right so Scott okay pleas don't tell me we're getting get into a discussion here but a discussion well all right all those in favor of denying say I I all those supposed say no all right that passes through that's all I'm looking for thank you very much formality tried to do two weeks ago right I correct said the general intention was that but I wanted to just I get it I I I've never seen one of those before and that's why I talk to the league and they're like okay so item qize the delay confusion I almost uh I almost deted us there don't give be mayor and councel uh Central Park is located in the Northeast part of town actually right behind City Hall here um on it is a gravel parking lot as shown on the location on the screen that's highlighted it's between City Hall and Dayton Elementary uh this area is used for Park users as well as the drop off and pickup for school when they're in session that looks that is a that is a no go back always want to note the picture of Central Park at its peak and go back one more forward there you go there that is just we just wanted to not by City staff um of how many cars that is how full par that's at least three days a week mean that's mean at peak times use that's what it looks like well and that's between the hours of 5: and 8:00 p.m. too yeah cuz there's cars that shift in and out of there for the you got staff was there we said okay the parking is down here yeah in the sea of color it's still going to look like that you know what though the lines will help because the reason for that is cuz we believe us staff that it will help parking is will you get more of those cars actually on the parking lot yeah M you will you may also get more 83 spots plus the five handicap spots which I assume are required for the number of right right parking SPAC is there there's no way there's 88 cars in that lower space on the gravel in that are using it today correct as it's used today the organized layout with the striping will just help more efficiently use the space unstrip grab a lot if somebody parked that close to me I'd probably bus about it we need door yeah we're not striping Costco lines they double okay um so as council is aware on the July 9th meeting um we discussed improvements of this lot um council did direct staff to put together some improvements and go seek uh contractor pricing for the construction of the improvements um we did look at or we did do a design for improvements it consisted generally of improving the drainage of the area um doing concrete curbing um in a ribbon style so it's just a flat concrete border around the parking lot to stay compliant with city code um Paving the surface of both the parking area and the access from South Diamond Lake Road and then again the striping or the pavement markings to help uh organize the lot if you will for parking use and we were under or we were anticipated to be under the $175,000 threshold that would trigger public bidding so we did go out for construction uh Invitational quotes with contractors um so here's just a quick look at the improvements what it looks like I tried to highlight the edge of the existing I don't know if that shows up real well on there but um the existing gravel Edge we tried to just mimic the footprint just to to um control costs uh at this time the parking lot could be expanded in the future if needed we did lay out a couple concepts of potential future um expansions that could be done if needed uh but we tried to match what was there and and as was mentioned this is 83 stalls with the five accessible up in the northeast corner of the lot we solicited six contractors that do this type of work often uh four of them did submit quotes for the work as shown uh low bid came in at just a hair under 164,000 so um that compares to our estimate we had it we were right at that threshold of the 175 we we were yeah I don't even know if we were a full thousand under it we we came right in so we we hoped we'd get some favorable bids which we did that were under the threshold so just the overall project cost the $164,000 bid um we do have a $34,000 engineering effort estimated for the project and then they had a couple thousand in there just for review of the contracts tney fees or anything else that might um be an expense with it expense with the project um bringing the estimated total to 200,000 for the project uh funding for this project as has been discussed would be the pavement manager fund so if Council wishes to move forward with this project we recommend that the contract be awarded to the low bidder which is OMG Midwest um I should also mention I I don't think I had this in your packet either we have talked with the school um they are comfortable relocating their drop off and pickup during the construction so that's all being coordinated they're going to move it back to the I guess it' be the east side of the school um during the construction mhm um and we've given U PD a heads up that there might be traffic um out onto South Di and that was the reason for shifting this over to the parking lot in the first place so make the c c so what's that it's here to make the CSO go crazy maybe I quick question for you just for clarity as I looked at the drawings on page 218 looked like there was a dotted line outside the paved area is that a paved or concrete border around the Edo out that far I when the kids come down that way that's where they walk and so I was just curious if we were Paving that area as well if it's the one I'm thinking is it a heavy dashed pretty heavy yeah yeah that's actually probably the construction limits so that's just how far the ground is expected to be disturbed no nothing physical will be there okay so so I did have a question not about that line but the it sounds like there's there's curbing um also up the access road so maybe you're describing that differently it's not a curb it's but it's a Concrete the yeah city city code requires that parking lots have Curb around the perimeters of them yeah that is surmountable not even that it's actually um just a ribbon curb um so it's it's literally just a fat sorry flat um border that goes around it I believe it's an like a 68 inch border that goes around it uh right it it'll actually look exactly like um Vinewood um has this so the water will continue to flow off of we didn't want to and one of my questions and I thought if it was a full curb you're going to lose a whole bunch of parking that obviously is in and it would have been very expensive we would have had to bring the whole lot down or deal with the storm water so this allows us to just manage storm water just as it is today um while still satisfying the city uh ordinance for the for and Jason just because I can and engineering cost of 34 Grand that's just government estimate right it is we're actually tracking under that1 okay are we uh I'm going to make a motion to approve I'll second more discuss sorry did you want a second it was your IDE in the first place I take back my second go ahead I sold that from it hard yeah I don't know I just some of these cost these unit prices from vendor to vendor from you know this was I mean like here yeah like you know obviously an 88 parking sign we're getting five but like OMG is $93 then you got 41250 it's like you're going it's the sign is right there like you got to buy that sign like you have it spelled up but like what if you look at the markings too there's significant difference one of them has a few cents on per foot of striping and a huge number on per marking for the accessible the a little more profit on it's like 60 bucks for the message 50 for I see if it's a penny here and a 65 cents there to me that that tells me like hey I they might have the equipment to do it or you know hey 65 cents per linear foot has to get farmed out I mean everybody else is kind of in that ball game I just it's always a mystery yeah exact and I I know Dave's brought it up in the past too they come in $700 aart and okay sometimes it really spread up that's all I got all right we got a motion second any more discussion all those in favor say I all say no motion perries by zero and there are no objections we'll be adjourned we're an hour and a half over e e e e