Dayton Parks Commission September second meeting. >> Let's stand for the pledge of allegiance. Pledge >> aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thanks everyone. Uh, approval of agenda. Call for any addition, changes, or deletions. All right. Hearing none, I'd entertain a motion to approve the proposed agenda. >> All motion second. >> All in favor say I. I. >> Oppos. the same sign. All right, on to the consent agenda. >> Um, I did notice that there was a mistake on the consent agenda. It says that Chair Nutson called the August 4th meeting to order, but it was actually Dave Pickle. >> Okay, I'm already make note of that. >> Elizabeth Scott. >> Thank you, Elizabeth. All right. Um, if that's it, I'd entertain a motion to approve the meeting notes from last month's meeting. >> All motion. >> I'll second. >> All in favor say I. >> I. I. >> Oppose. Same sign. All right. On to the open form. Do we have anybody online? Anybody? >> Nobody's online. >> Sad. All right. Uh, on to the council update. Councilman Sloan. Uh let's see. You guys might already know this and Marty can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe uh as far as parks are concerned, uh trees and shrubs are going in or will be done sometime this month. >> Yeah. So, uh Iron Gardens, the trees are going in this week. Um and then, uh area 21, we're still grading that, but they should go in by the end of the month over there. and irrigation also in all them parks is also will be up and running by the end of the month I believe. >> Yeah. So all the irrigation um I own gardens irrigation is installed and operational there. Um we got to do some uh seating there. So we're not operating there at the moment. We're doing some kill there. Um Elsie Stevensation is installed. We've added a couple of extra heads around the seating area. Hayden Hills, the irrigation is installed and operational. Um, we got to do some grading and overseeding and we'll which will happen in the next couple of weeks. River Hills irrigation is installed. Um, we're still waiting for power to be run to the the well and the um irrigation controller over there. That should be this Thursday. That's going to be done and then there'll be some final tests in and some restoration work uh hopefully next week on that. and sundown segation is installed in operation. We got to do some grading and some seeding um over the next couple of weeks up there to get it all back to where it needs to be. Cool. And I got one more little piece of news uh likely in the next communicator. Um, my office is down here on South Diamond Lake Road and all this spring, spring, summer, I've noticed this gal out there picking up garbage all the time. Her name is Lorie Hansen. She's been a resident in Dayton since 2020, I believe it is. Um, and she goes on her little walks and brings a garbage can with her or garbage bag with her. And uh since 2020, she has picked up 246 garbage bags of trash along the roads and in the parks right right in in this area. >> Awesome. >> So, she's going to have a little a little bio in the communicator coming up. >> Cool. >> That's great. >> Very cool. >> Thanks to her. >> That's all I got. >> Thanks, Scott. >> Thanks, Scott. >> Mad. >> Uh just a couple of things. Um area 21 um park there. Um they're still working on a lot of grading and some storm water stuff. Um the parking lot has been graded and they're compacting that adding a little bit of material ahead of the asphalt along with the the um trails over there. Working on those. Um we'll get the asphalt on those as quick as we can. Um sport courts um and the playground have the concrete containers in place. Um, playground equipment is ordered. Um, I don't have an exact delivery date on that yet, but it should be in the next uh, 6 to 8 weeks, I believe. >> Um, own gardens and landscaping. Um, there's a little bit of landscaping we did on that, but the trees, like I said, will be planted this week. Um, water trails, we got a DNR update on that uh, tonight uh, from Eleanor. Um, yes, LC Stevens Park water trail land in there. The funding secured finally. We've got through all the hoops that the federal government needed. Um, we're waiting on one final permit to be issued uh by the MPCA which is likely to be late fall. Uh, we're anticipating getting bid documentation together in 2025 and with a 2026 conduct uh construction for both both projects. Um, an update on the prairie at Leathers Park. Uh you will recall we had it seeded once and it didn't take and and then we had it killed off and receded. Um the uh cover crop has taken off well but it's masking out all of the uh um uh flowers and uh grasses from the prairie. So we cut that down this uh week to try and give the grasses and plants uh a chance to grow before the winter steps in. So it's part of the process. I did uh coordinate that effort with Prairie Restorations out of Princeton. So, >> we'll see how that that goes. Um and there couple of rec uh recreation updates, a couple of upcoming events. Uh back to uh back to school movie night is on Friday. Um from 8:00, the movie is The Wild Robot. Um and there's a concert in the park on 9 on Wednesday the 10th at LC Stevens. That's Vinnie Rose and that's 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. And then another concert in the park on Tuesday, September the 30th, which is Shane Martin. Um, and that's from 6:00 to 8 also. Um, those are some rescheduled dates on there because of the weather interruptions that we've had this summer. >> Sure. >> That's all I have. >> Thank you, Ari. Cool. Okay. Fantastic. All right. On to the regular meeting items. the least Steven Park master plan update and concepts from MSA. >> So I've got Eleanor here is going to present and ask answer questions. Uh what we have is a couple of very high level concepts here taken from feedback that we received from the various meetings that we've had. Um I'm sure Eleanor can do a better job of talking her way through it than I can. >> Sure. Thanks Marty. Uh hi everyone. Eleanor with MSA. here to just do a quick highle overview on Dayton LC Stevens master plan update. Uh like Marty mentioned, we've been working on this uh with him and with the park steering committee. So just going to keep this high level. I want to go over some of the things that we've heard from the community engagement and where we're at currently and what our next steps are. So current phase uh we're we've worked through all of our community engagement so far. where we're developing con furthering developing the concept plans and we're into the recommendations review and finalization part of the process. Uh public engagement has consisted of uh the steering committee stakeholder meetings with uh select key individuals in the community. There was an online survey available for approximately 3 weeks uh via the uh let's see there was an RGI link and I believe it was posted to the city pages as well. and then had the pleasure of having a pop-up concept review during the car show out at LC Stevens. Uh it was a pleasure to to be out there and listen to the community and hear what they had to say. Uh some things that we heard during the online survey. Uh we got a total of 134 unique households responding which totaled over 400 people according to the different um counts. One of the questions we asked in addition to you know your household size was your household age range, where are you from? Uh the highest responses we had were age ranges of 35 to 44 and then uh also some in the obviously younger school age. Let's see. So household size highest response was from people in a twoerson household. Household age ranges again had a really high response of people saying they were in the 35 to 44 age range and then the zero to five and six to 11 also as household members. Um just a note if you're reading through this later this will total greater than 100 because people are responding you know from multiple people in their households. Um some things that we learned both from the online survey as well as talking to people in the community during the popup concept review. decent high number of people are visiting this park already. Um not surprising based on I'm sure what you guys have experienced yourselves. Uh either daily, weekly, a few times a year. Uh those were all um in the mix. Most people obviously walked or drive to the park. Um definitely some multimodal in there as well. Things that people respond reported currently enjoying at the park. Um, obviously we're we're in the process of working with you guys on adding more amenities, but of the amenities currently out there, people enjoyed walking, jogging, the nature observation, community events, river access was also something that got mentioned as a current and uh desired future activity as well. As a part of the online public survey, we asked folks, you know, from a list what they wanted to see out there. restroom facilities. Number one, number one request in the survey, number one response from the survey. Other things that were um highly popular were water play features, having some sort of pavilion or shelter out there, native landscaping, nature walk, and some playground and playground equipment as well. From people's writing responses and other things that we'd heard during the pop-up concept review were maintaining the natural park setting that's out there. Um people really said, you know, this is this is something this is a special spot that Dayton has. We want to see, you know, its unique features enhanced. Uh it's other things like enhancing river access, adding more trails, and then making something that's truly multigenerational as well. So, this is just a highle um look at the concepts um that were shown during the popup review and some minor tweaks as well. If it helps, we have zoomed in versions of this. Okay, >> that's right. So, the first concept we've taken a look at during the pop-up concept review at a high level features included natural play, water play, um parking for vehicles for different events at the park like the car show, additional natural surface trails and boardwalk, uh expanding the existing amphitheater seating in addition to including shade and electric for the stage and reuse of the existing corn crib. So again, just at a high level, we've heard from a lot of folks that the existing amphitheater is something they really want to see enhanced and something that's uh key to keeping on as well as um utilizing the existing sort of like history of the park as as a f as a feature. Again, at a high level, sort of this um another concept we were working around with was again developing the park to have some sort of feature play area, but bumping up the amount of parking that would be present in the car in the park for things like the car show or things like larger events. Uh turf amphi or enhancing that amphitheater area with the stone seating and just expanding on to the existing profile and also including some sort of rentable pavilion with restrooms. So at a high level, those are some of the key anchor items in the park. Where we go from here from this high level concept is to get some direction on, you know, what sort of alignments and layouts are you guys envisioning? You know, is is the larger parking something that's key that's really needed? Is the event what that event space wants to be? If it's, you know, rentable for picnics or whether it's some sort of larger space. Uh what sort of unique play features we're looking at. Those are all things that were um that are coming up next in the docket. So next steps like I mentioned re we're in the review process and the refinement for final concepts and final documents. So I guess I'll open it up for sort of high level questions about these concepts feedback. Don't want to take up too much your time. I know you have um things to do. Any questions from the group >> or even thoughts? >> I'm on the committee, so I've looked at this and kind of provided some feedback already, but um I think the one that is shown here, there's three concepts, right? >> Uh or no, just two concepts. Did you took the top two from what we shared or >> Yes. Yeah. based on the last round of feedback and based on the public the concept popup we did out at LC Stevens, we've been refining it down to two. So now we're looking to take that next step to the final final plans. >> Perfect. >> I mean it looks to me like as long as we add restrooms, we'll be in a good consensus. >> We can keep the rest in the restroom and call it good. >> Highly highly requested. >> Is there anything missing? Yes, that's that's what we would love to hear. >> I I guess my question is is I know one of the questions I already saw about the you know reuse of the existing farm structures was high up um since we do have that rural component of Den. Uh was that in any other concepts? I'm just kind of looking and I don't see like the barn. I believe in the first one it's still >> in concept one we have it being maintained and then you know like in this yep those are those sort of like shorter squatter um existing silos out there >> and then uh concept two would be removing that then >> uh concept two so doesn't have to be an eitheror with with this um just looking to >> get you know what what the highest um priority is for enhancing you know what's already out there and then continuing on to build a unique unique area. >> Yeah, I definitely see the parking and the bathrooms being someone that goes there on a regular for the different events. I think that would be very important for us. [Applause] >> I mean, overall looking at them when I was studying them, I liked concept one better. I felt like it hit a lot more of the variety of ideas that we were hoping for. Um because I do feel like I mean this is our premier park and so I like that that one has additional variety I guess so that it can hit families of all different ages. I think it hits the families better that way. I did notice in concept 2 that you had additional parking um at >> Okay, so it's LC Stevens and then this is >> an overlook. the overlook. >> You had additional parking in that overlook and I was just wondering if we couldn't add that to concept one to maybe help with additional parking >> um up in that area because like I've rented it out for a function before for my church and it was hard with parking. So I like that there's additional parking up there also. Um, we used the parking down at LC, but then some people had didn't like the lot. >> Yeah. >> Ellen, do you know the uh concept one and two, those park two parking lots capacity on those? >> Uh, concept one, the main parking lot, this larger sort of uh >> right in the middle. >> Yep. this larger one that's got 120 give or take spots in there plus an additional 40 um in over here would there be I mean I do understand why concept two would be nicer because it looked like that was more like 220 if I remember from the earlier slide. >> Mhm. Um, but yet making it that large over there, you miss out on all of the history. And I personally love the history of it. So, I don't know if there's a way to extend that. Look at that parking in the middle there on concept one to get closer to the 220. There be a way to do that. But >> to me, you just make that one smaller and add the 120 on the other side. Yeah. >> Well, wait a minute. >> Make the on concept two. You to me you just make that one a little smaller if you want to keep the the uh green bins or um I mean I've got mixed feelings on the barn and the green bins or the silo, but um to me they're going to be a more of a liability than um than keeping. But you could make that parking lot smaller. knock that one down to 100 or 150 and then use the 120 on the other side >> for for this park. I mean, to me, if if you go to um you know, if once you get to the the splash pad idea, if there's a water function there or the playground [Applause] and even even the August 8th event, there was probably 500 people at that park. >> So, 120 to 200 stalls to me is just not enough, >> right? I mean, I can see this park having 600 700 people in it by as early as next next summer. >> It's possible >> cuz what is when we have those types of situations? Let's say there's,000 people there. >> Yeah. >> 500 to 1,000 and we've only got parking for even if it's 160 200 like where do we tell them to do we tell them to go park at people's neighborhoods at River Hills and then walk over, >> right? >> Which we have to pass. Is that like is that you know from a communication standard? Do we try to get everybody to take bikes? We try to get everybody to >> That's that was what I was thinking is that through like communication and whatever else through the city you can encourage >> those who can walk or bike to do so. You could potentially also I don't know if how many times are we anticipating that >> 500 plus people are coming and if >> times a year >> that's what I was wondering. And so then for those times, is it possible that we find another place with more parking and then offer some sort of like a shuttle situation >> or or a grass parking type situ like Champlain? I don't know how many people have done uh crossings for events this summer, but they've actually now worked it where they're having people park in the they've made some room in the neighborhood and then you just walk under the bridge under 169 and you just park in a grass area in the neighborhood. and it seemed to go really well the last two years now they've been doing that because the other area was so congested. >> So, I'm just trying to think of backup plans. If we don't go for the bigger parking, what other alternatives can we do to make sure that we're communicating to people cuz there's nothing worse than when the band starts at 7:00 or something starts at 7:00 and all of a sudden 6:45 and there's no parking left and everyone's scrambling and >> Right. But at the same time, I don't want to fill this whole park with parking 100%. Marty, you had something >> currently. Um, we do use overflow parking in the grass there. I don't know if there's some way of incorporating that into the plan. So, that could still be used as overflow parking when we do have 600 700 people there to accommodate those additional cars as well as the additional parking that we have. >> Sure. >> Um, yeah, I guess that was my kind of my concern. And I mean, yeah, it's nice to have parking for everyone that might show up, but for the other 360 days a year, why do we need that much parking? >> Mhm. >> That's just going to be, you know, I'd rather see grass than asphalt. >> I don't think the uh the car shows are going to get smaller. And I guess I kind of know that uh Hutner wants to grow them bigger, bigger, bigger. uh like September 12th, he's got a pretty good country bed in common. That's going to draw just that's going to draw two 300 people along. I think that's my opinion. >> And the grass parking, as long as you're everyone's fine with the grass parking, I think the grass park thing is the perfect solution if everyone's fine with it. I mean, I don't know what kind of a fairway system Marty needs to have going out there if it needs to be in perfect shape or okay with. >> It should be Yeah, the way it is now works well. So >> yeah, I mean any like other large events that you go to throughout the summer, apple orchards or whatever else, you're grass parking. >> Renaissance fair, you're grass parking. Like we don't have to >> And you're walking and you're walking. >> You're parking away and you're walking. And so >> people who live near know that they're just going to walk cuz they're having to deal with parking. And >> Mhm. >> Great. And >> I know with the car show, the cars like to park on the grass anyway. >> Yep, they do. >> Y trucks, too. That would that would help. >> That's another issue. >> So, that being said, that really moves us back more than to concept one, right? >> Yeah, I've got that noted down. And I think, you know, with this is where the car show is right now out on the grass. So, you know, we can always look at building in some sort of roll curb. Um, you know, the older cars that have sort of a lower clearance or some of the low riders, you could still park those on the pavement if there's a need and then have a lower approach curb and everyone else gets throw up on the grass. Obviously, we're only seeing like dots and descriptions on this. However, >> based on this, I feel like people would go, "Wow!" to concept one and to concept two, I mean, they'd be like, "Yeah, this is nice." But like I I think for a premier park concept one feels >> I agree. >> The other thing I look at on for me when you go to the at at some point and very soon the restrooms are 100% got to happen. And once that happens then what type of a building do you put up for those restrooms? cuz it's got to be if you go brick, we're talking four to 5 million bucks probably for sure. >> If you go wood structure 80 by 160, I mean to me you could get that built and that's a big that's that's a pretty decent size. Um you probably I'm sure you can get that done for a couple million bucks. >> So money is going to play somewhat of a factor there. Um >> I don't see a restroom on the concepts either. >> The pavilion is also rest one. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Pavilion and restroom eight. >> But if we keep the silos and things like that, we could then lean into the farm field, the machine shed, you know, that could make it a cheaper option than having to build a brick building and things like that. Mhm. >> You know, Morton building might not look as pretty for the city slippers, but they would do the function of putting bathrooms in. And I know there's still a lot of expense there, but different ideas that we could incorporate with the design. >> I don't think you'll get away with building a a Morton type building, a pole pole type building. >> Other cities do. >> Yeah, >> that's an option. That's all I'm saying. >> Yeah. Well, I like both concepts very well. anxious to see where this lands. >> Yes. Thank you for the pizza. >> I'm curious how much the um pavilion building I don't know if you call it a pavilion or not, but the building in the French like regional park um area costs cuz that that's like a nice multi-use. Not like huge party situation, but there's like a couple like smaller event spaces. There's a decent amount of bathrooms. There's also like a little snack stand where they sell things. So, I don't know. >> Yeah, that that was the concessions was another thing that came up when we were talking to folks. Yeah. Yeah. We'll we'll take a look at that as we like refine this. And >> yeah, >> does the park what type you know when we think about buildings like what do you want in the building or what do you want to use it for? So, is it like an event space that you can rent out for whether it's parties or receptions or versus just like a meeting space? >> Mhm. >> One of the biggest things that you've had trouble with is rain. >> Mhm. Yeah. >> I mean, no matter what kind of a amphitheater you build build, if it rains, they're not coming unless they can be inside. >> Yeah. >> So, to me, you you look at that also. I mean that's why I'm saying at least 80 by 160 for some sort of a building, you know. >> Yeah. >> The one thing Oh, >> sorry. No, that gives you the plan B. You know, you know, we've had to cancel events and try and find alternates and there's not really any good alternative for a bigger band event in Dayton. So to have a building there, you know, that would be really useful. And I'm sure that other people would want to use it for that function for weddings and stuff. Yeah, this place is we got a wedding down there this weekend, I believe. Yeah. 20. >> Yeah. So, people are starting to look at as a wedding venue as well. So, to have the whole thing there would be good. >> There's a lot of maintenance that comes with a building down there, though, too. I mean, you're not talking anything small. You're talking city hall size to get bodies in there and a band and all that stuff or a wedding and a venue. >> And that maintenance could be a killer in the long run. >> And all the audio equipment that you're now having to put into a building that's going to be hardwired and all the other things, it gets very expensive. Yeah, I thought what it was a big fly. Um, anyway, I I feel like I remember a discussion of probably like springish time where we were shying away more from the wedding venue concept here. Um, >> right. because just down the street >> they're building that or that's going to have one and there's multiple going in in our community. So I just don't know that >> that's why I brought up the French area too cuz that that building is definitely not for like weddings but it's like a nice small but not too small. I don't know. Look it up there for small events, small parties. >> Yeah. kind of checks the boxes. >> What is the biggest event that you see having having to happen indoors >> at this park? >> Yeah. At at this park here. >> I wouldn't support big indoor gatherings. I would support the outdoor the river. That's why you have the view, you know, that nature stuff versus my two sense you guys are please do yours too, but I'd say outdoor events, not indoor events in this location because of the view that's there. And as someone who was looking forward to the one that was scheduled that was rescheduled to the 30th, if it would have been an indoor concert, we wouldn't have went. We won't go to an indoor concert because that's not the cool. You want to go out and you want to be outside. You want to, you know, have a few drinks and hang out with friends outdoors, not go inside another building when it's, you know, >> packed packed like sardines and sweating and Yeah. the problem you do run into there and you didn't have any trouble with it apparently because she got them all rescheduled but if you a lot of times if like the August 8th event they would have possibly worked it with us for next year but if that event gets rained out you pay for the entertainment no matter whether they play or not >> it's a chance you take that put on car you had something >> I disagree with you guys I don't want a huge I think it's the outdoor that we need to look at. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I I think >> that event center that's going up and and other places that are being built in the area in the future then potentially could provide an indoor opportunity for if that's needed down the line >> and that could be a cool partnership with the city with the different organization >> and once again I mean it would be I think trying to keep it as unique as it is right now is very important I think and keeping it that you you know, with the silos and stuff. Honestly, that's one of the cool things about going there is it's a cool park with, you know, some cool uh almost artlike features because of everything there. >> I agree. >> Brad, do you have anything? >> I'm good with all that. I think ultimately to me the question comes back to Elizabeth, like what do you want? What are you looking for? because a lot of the stuff is on your shoulders and if you're looking for something different than what we're saying, we'd love to hear your feedback if you're okay with whatever. You know what I mean? Because there's stuff that's coming that you have to book and you have to put on and so like what do you think? >> I would say yeah, the biggest issue we have is parking for all of our events. Um and then yeah, I guess cancellations with rain and stuff, but I understand what you guys are saying too with wanting to keep it more natural. So, I kind of see both sides of it. Um, but yeah, parking is a major issue for us. >> Would it be good for the city to have be able to do more inside stuff? Is there something that we're missing? If we are all saying, "Hey, we'd like to see something more outside focus." Are we missing something by saying that or is the city good with that? Like, what do you guys think? >> Well, I'd say right now a lot of our events are outdoor driven events because we have no option really to go inside. when you look at the activity center can only hold 173 people. So it really limits our space for like winter events or anything like that. So our biggest spots to hold events right now are either LC Stevens or city hall with parking at the school and having to walk over. So those are kind of our only options for events right now. And you can't really hold an event in here. So it's all outdoor is our only option pretty much. So I guess that's my next question then is are we missing the boat here by not using this as an indoor area? You we have the land here, right? We currently own the land. Are we making a mistake by not creating something there that can seat 3, 4, 500, whatever inside? >> I'm not saying I want it. I'm just asking like is this is this something both from Scott's perspective, everyone's perspective, like are we missing the bone here? cuz I agree with you guys 100% on the outdoor focus, but when stuff gets cancelled, when we don't have opportunities for other things in the winter, are we missing the boat? Because we know how expensive it is to buy more land. So, since we have this land, are we missing the boat on not having some kind of a big indoor I'm just throwing it out there cuz I don't know the answer. So there are my my question to your question is do we not have any other locations where we could down the line as Dayton grows potentially build a big community center outside. >> We've been looking at a bunch of different areas to build like a community park um which would you know potentially hold these bigger events but we haven't got anywhere secured on that. Um and I don't know every year that goes by the land gets more expensive. We're also looking for land for, you know, the community sports play, both of which would, you know, would be needed, but they're two probably two separate parks, but I have no idea when those are uh coming um or if they're ever going to happen, but that is what we would look at doing. This is something that we currently have and we could do something here now. I mean, I don't know if it's something that's totally enclosed indoors or if it's just a type of shelter. I don't know if that would be enough for the band or whatever. Um, >> but I think that, you know, it would be good to find some middle ground here and have something that we could use as a backup for these cancellation situations and an opportunity for somebody who wants to get married by the river, not an apple orchard. >> Mhm. >> Is there any more public engagements that you have scheduled where you're going to be taking a survey, something like this, you could add to it? Uh, currently no. Okay. >> Is that something we could have? >> I am going to defer to you on that. >> I think yeah, we could do that. Um, it will slow the process down somewhat. Um, >> yeah, if it's if it's desired, yes, we can certainly assist with that. At this point in the process that we currently have out outlined, we're at the stage of moving towards final plans. Were there questions on or was there like options for indoor you know or what do you want to see at this park? I mean was there any sort of an indoor feature listed in options? >> Uh we had a couple open-ended um options in the survey for folks to you know contribute additional comments. Uh that was one thing we heard during the stakeholder groups as well as look people were looking for additional you know there were a couple mentions of folks looking for additional you know places to do things in the winter. >> Okay. That's what I wanted to know. Yeah cuz if if we've asked the question and people don't seem to care that much then >> I see what >> it didn't make the list >> and they're more focused on restrooms. So >> right >> they clearly just care about >> water next going to the bathroom. I think what the the process was going to be and correct me if I'm wrong Adenor is we would get to the uh final concept or you know 90% plans and then we would get um some more u resident feedback from that. >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> But if there's a desire to you know ask some questions again I we could do that. >> Yeah. And a middle ground might be once we've developed sort of a final survey is similar to the process we've already used with an online survey, have a have that graphic up there and have folks, you know, give folks the ability to leave like a little pinned comment or something to that effect. >> Sure. >> Okay. Any other oneliners? >> No. Well, I was just going to say if the commission had a strong opinion on the concept one versus concept two. So, like there there's a lot of individual opinions, but I don't know if the commission is thinking as a whole. >> I think we have two number ones. Maybe >> I vote one. >> I vote one. >> I like them both. They both have different options, right? I could see the parking on the one side versus where it is. I could see the water at overlook or the water feature at overlook versus down here. So, I'm kind of open-ended. The majority says one though. >> Yeah. Yeah, I like one because it includes, like I said, the some of the existing features that make it a unique park >> and I've got a note here as well to look at incorporating that existing park or additional parking up at the Clover Overlook as well. >> Yeah, >> sounds good. >> Thank you. >> All right, another MSA DNR landing design. is doing double viewing tonight. >> She's got this back. >> Just a little introduction here. This we've worked with uh DNR quite a lot on this. Um and we've gone through I think that start off with four concepts of these are what uh this is what uh DNR like. This is more of a courtesy showing of where we're at with it. Um the city doesn't have very much leverage over this. This is all under jurisdiction of the DNR. So, um, they control what goes on there. But take it away, Eleanor. >> Sure. So, I I don't have a lot to add other than this is the layout that's been discussed with the DNR like Marty mentioned um for the additional space at the Crow Mississippi public water access. There's additional parking spaces. There's storm water management. There's uh let's see, some trailer pole stalls. And that is some additional lighting as well. basically if you you know have any comments this has been reviewed by by both staff and by the DNR as well at this point but we we definitely wanted to hear you know any additional thoughts. >> So the kayak landing is going to be where the uh original landing is. It's just up the top of your screen there. >> Um there's more of a beach landing there and that's that area gets really silted up. That's why they want to move the the motorized boat launch onto the crow so they can get the boats in and out any time of the year. At this time of the year, you can't get into the the water there with a with a trailer. >> So the kayakers would go around to get onto the crow. >> Uh they don't know. They could go around to get on the crow. Probably the idea is to go from DNR landing down the Mississippi to LC Stevens where that's a takeout point at this stage. Okay. said it's a DNR. So, they have their mind made up. >> There's a lot of uh things that they we have to adhere to that their rules and their design standards that they want in a boat landing. So, um >> I do see light poles, you know, portable toilets. I just don't see a trash receptacle. >> Say again. >> Trash receptacle. Garbages. I think that's I'm not sure that. >> Will that be next to the portable toilets? >> I can I can check on that. >> Yeah. Good catch. >> It's important. No, it's a big deal. >> It is. It is. It's huge. So, good catch. I didn't >> Otherwise, we're going to have to have Lori cover more ground, right? >> Yeah. or try and recruit another 10 of them. >> Hey, you got any friends? >> Is there any other stuff you're looking for us on that or >> uh No. >> Okay. >> Looks good. >> Yeah. Seems pretty straightforward and >> construction 2026. >> Thanks for sharing with us. I believe >> that's what we're looking at. Yeah. >> Then it'll tie in with Elsie Stevens as well. So, the two be constructed around at the same time. I like it. Awesome. >> Thanks everyone. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you, >> Marty. West Mississippi River Regional Trail Alignment. >> Uh, okay. We're going to revisit this. I just need some additional information. Um, we did um a trail last time that um is for what the land ownership is currently. Um, what I've been asked to provide is what would be the ultimate if there were no homes on there and what the ultimate trail alignment would look like. So that's your task tonight. The markers are there. >> What color are we doing? >> You want to cover the input that somebody suggested that we go back to the board of this. >> The reason why we're doing number two again. >> Um, yeah. Why? >> Basically, Zack wanted to have a um a clean uh slate one. So he wanted to have two versions of it. What the ultimate would be and what you know what the one would be that's uh currently available to us. >> And you want us to draw this without any homes? >> Yeah. So all you got is natural contours. That's what Zach wanted. >> That's what Zach asked me to do. >> Really? >> Because it seems crazy if we're never going to >> you're never >> we're never going to get it. So >> I don't know if I'd feel comfortable drawing through somebody's house though. >> I know. I I kind of felt the same way when I read it before coming tonight. I was like, I don't know how comfortable I feel with that >> because if I was a homeowner, >> that would just end up making me upset and then we're going to end up causing >> Well, plus you're also giving the park reserve a different message, >> right? >> Well, I think the idea is to just see what the ultimate thing is there. I mean, this trail isn't going to be built next year. It's not going to be probably built for another 50 years. So, I mean, that home may not even be there in 50 years time. >> We get that. Uh, if we decide as a board that we like number one drawing regardless, can we stick with that as a plan or are you going to force us? >> To me, you have the option to get this tra trail built in 2029 or 2023. >> Mhm. >> My idea is is to make what you think can work in our lifetime >> and do it. and do it. >> That's what I say. Let's get this thing built. Let's do what we can do right now. >> You give the park reserve the option. Hey, I mean, right now I would support 7525. Let's get it built in when I believe the county is doing a lot of this and it's happening in 2029, I think it is. >> 2029. Yes. >> Get the whole thing built in 2029. >> Mhm. >> All right, team. You heard my thoughts. I don't feel comfortable, but I want to hear your guys' thoughts. I think you did a great job last time. >> I I really liked my drawing last time, and I think it was phenomenal. And honestly, we took into the aspect of our current situation. I understand that, you know, 20 years from now, we might own every property on there. We probably won't. Um, but I'd rather look at it what we can do now instead of looking what we could do. If you told me that they already had plans to buy a couple of these places or we had plans to buy a couple of these places, that would change that. But I don't see the point of us saying, "Oh, if we hold out another 20 years, we might be able to do this beautiful trail that goes through there." If that changes, we then bring it up to that committee at that time and figure it out then. >> And I don't think that this is taken away from the line that you've already drawn there. um it's just an alternative that you know maybe in 50 years time that's where it look it would look like. So, >> I'm curious too with the idea of, you know, let's build it in 2029 with what we've got, you know, if certain things are sold later on. Ultimately, I don't know. A a trail is some asphalt. And I know like it does cost money, but like it's it's not like something that could never be reworked after >> land. Certainly be updated in 15 years, >> right? And just I don't know based on I still remember that working meeting and like based on the faces of the people who were sitting there who own those homes and whatever. I just feel >> it was incredibly uncomfortable. >> Yeah. >> And it was it was you know >> here the the ghosts of their faces sitting there next to them in the audience and the amount of anger that people had about this kind of led me to believe like hey this doesn't seem like something you want to >> chill out a little bit >> maybe push too far. You feel a lot tougher than us, Scott. Um I just I to me I would I just I I I kind of like what Scott's saying is that hey, if we can somehow make it work, whatever we can do, great. I see what Zach's saying. Like I love a perfect Yes. If we could draw a straight line from the city of Dayton to, you know, all the way over the Mississippi River in Rapids there and you connect through here and here and all that's great. But the reality is is that there's plenty of property owners that aren't going to do it regardless. >> And they kind of already did do a drawing of that. >> And I mean, >> so don't we already have one? >> That was fine. >> So what is Zach ultimately wanting to see? just like if we could just throw something out there that could go straight through and then figure out maybe he would just figure out the finances on the back end or the buying out of the properties or >> I think he wanted to see what the ultimate what the ultimate line would look like if there was no property there just following the contours and that kind of thing. Um >> what >> our old drawings up there Brad if you want to see it. >> It's the same as the ones in here. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And it's got the the drawing on there. >> Yeah. what we had drawn there. >> And and this isn't an exercise to say, well, we're never going to do that. That's probably where we will end up. But it's, you know, if you know, land becomes available, what would the alignment be going 20, 30, 40 years from? >> What is in the best interest of the trail system, not necessarily individual owners. So, this is more, you know, when we look at the larger city picture, we we can't focus on individual property owners. We have to look at the big picture. >> I get that, but it just doesn't feel right. >> No, I I understand. >> I The other thing too is like I >> if the situation were to change, isn't that the time then that they're going to just ask for that concept to be drawn up again? like is is what we're doing right now going to really be saved and like that is the ultimate trail and we're never going to like reook at that or redraw it from what this group of five people does. >> I agree with you. I mean it's kind of like the master plan for Elsie Stevens that was done in >> I do get that but yeah you still have to have a starting point to overlay that from. Yeah, >> I mean I understand the both ways. You know, obviously I don't want to draw over, you know, oh well this trailer is going to go right through, you know, so and so's bedroom, but at the same point I can understand why they would want that. So, you know, in future lookings, like what if this property does come available? Where would that trail where would we want the trail to be at? >> Yeah. >> And I mean, if they're looking at like 50-year plan, I can understand why they would want that. Um, but I still agree though that it is kind of like you're drawing through someone's literally house and stuff. But I mean, if that's what you want us to do, >> and I also just don't believe that it won't just be asked to be done again in >> right >> 20 years. >> What do you think is more realistic, something that goes alongside the river and cuts through properties on that side, or is it more realistic to follow alongside Dayton Road and be right off? What's what's more likely to get through? Cuz either way, we're on someone else's property, right? >> Mhm. >> So, are we more likely to get people to give us space mirroring the road or mirroring the river? To me, they're more likely to give something on the road than they are in the river because the river, no one wants >> depending where their driveway is. >> Yeah. But if you bought a lot that's looking at water, in general, the last thing you want is random people riding their bikes through it >> or walking or whatever. So, my guess is like if we could do something off of the road or more realistically, what does that cost look like? And I know we've had this conversation a lot of times, but like maybe people >> do we know if the homeowners would be more likely to do it if it was on the side that isn't involving the water. >> Yeah. >> And then do we still want a path that's not involving the water? Plus the contours, if you look at the red stuff, that's where it's the steepest. So, a lot of it did actually hug the road as you look at the trailer. Mhm. >> So, you're never going to get to the river, >> right? As one would think. You're still going to be up by the road, >> right? >> Right. You're just going to have more space between you and [Music] >> we can go there. Everybody can do it. We >> give our opinions. We'll do it. other. >> I'm not coming. >> So, this is what we did. >> Yes. So, this is what we did last time because we already >> they already own these. So we were showing that you go up and come back down >> and but like again there there might be a more possibility for us to go through the back of the tree farm then you know they could see that as a you know a perk of you know oh you know they could have 50 signs about how they can buy a tree because they wrote this thing you know >> it could actually be beneficial for them. I mean, yeah. And ideally, from someone who would be an enjoyer of this trail, as I'm sure all of us would, yeah, we'd like to be by the river more than it is if we're talking about an ultimate, >> right? >> But this slope is here. So, even on these ones, you can't go upensive, >> but we could do something like this. And you know, once again, the homeowner would have to agree, you know, something behind the yard to go into the tree farm and then come back over here >> would be a nice would be a nice aspect if we were be able to. >> Now, in situations like this, I would not want to drive draw right through this house, >> right? >> Like there there's I could see where we could weigh out both. >> Well, this isn't going to work anyways. So that one would just stay. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, do we just need to draw it right along this part? >> Does anyone have any objections on We can maybe break it up. Like we said, this is the tree farm. This person's backyard is decent. If we were to hug that more of the slope and come from here around >> and then come through the back of the tree farm and then up. Once again, no idea if that would ever be able to be done. >> Yeah. >> But that's what >> I feel comfortable drawing a line there. >> And then you come and down Vixsburg and then go back up. >> Yep. And we can even hug right here being that this is one of our properties. >> Yep. So go ahead. >> Everyone okay with that? gray drawing last time. You were right ahead. >> For the record, this is a consensus. This is not Luke destroying. >> I think it's >> Hey, no. Only >> somebody lives there. [Laughter] >> There. >> Nice. And >> I mean, yeah, I'd agree. >> Thank you. >> So, should we do finish this way and then come back? >> We'll come back that way. >> So, >> that's already kind of >> this one. Once again, maybe. >> Yep. >> If we were That's Yeah. >> Everyone agree? >> Yep. That's what that's what we're doing is if that house wasn't there. So, >> Well, even if it is, there could be a trailer right behind it. >> Yeah. >> Maybe make it more markable. I don't know. Yeah. [Music] And then all of this is this residential that doesn't have >> somebody's like >> there's a house and then there's a house. >> Mhm. >> There's nothing here. >> This is just like clear or is that like a court or something like that? >> Which part? >> This this >> Yeah, that's like a clearing. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So once again, hypothetically, perfect world, everyone wants a trail. >> Mhm. We could go up against this slope and then maybe up front so it doesn't impact this house. >> Yeah. >> And then meet up over here. Over maybe here. >> Cuz don't we have to go up this way anyway? >> For this slope is this steeper slope. They could do a bridge they said. So if we wanted to, we could go right in front of this house, but I wouldn't want a bike trail right in front of my house. The first thing I see. But we could do a bridge type thing over here. And >> so having it be like kind of maybe like like hereish. >> Everyone okay with that? >> I want five people to say yes. >> Well, I mean they told us not to look at the houses. So you would >> remember this. >> Yeah. So you're not supposed to look at the houses to go right right through it. >> Just look at the topography and >> Yeah. So continue get the topography and that's >> everyone agree. >> Yep. >> Sure. >> Yep. >> Like Marty said, this is 100% topography base that >> and then a bridge across >> a bridge. >> And then behind here to go over. >> Yeah, I agree. >> These are pretty awesome. And then end here. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So now over to this. >> So this one you're going to have to keep the same because topography would be worth going up. So I would just go up right there >> to there. >> Everyone good with that? >> Mhm. I see. This is the most terrifying drawing I've ever done, I think, in my life. >> This is giving me flashbacks to my >> third birthday when they cut through my Barney cake and my uncles started screaming and pretending that we're Barney. >> No. >> So, given this is going to be a park, so we could continue right with the over here. >> Yeah. >> Everyone good with that? Yep. >> And then >> is there another bridge that needs to happen between this area? >> Okay. >> Possibly. >> So, a bridge here. >> Opportunity to No, never mind. It's too high over there. >> Yeah. >> Continue over. >> Yep. through this. >> Yep. >> And then right across. >> Yep. >> Um yeah, that's just a flood plane. >> So you just got to bring it all >> more or less right along like that. [Music] Be an awesome trail. [Music] And then right across here. >> Yep. >> Right down to that. >> Yep. >> And then that we were good with and >> Yep. [Music] >> We did it. >> Okay. Thank you very much. >> Yeah, just a little. >> All right. >> What are we going to draw next month? >> I don't know. What What would you like? Teddy bears, dragons, >> architectural renderings of the building, the pavilion that's going to go up and all these students. >> Okay. Have a work session. You provide pizza and salad and crayons. >> Fantastic. All right. Uh, so that's it for the regular meeting items. Uh, notice announcements. Next parks commission, Tuesday, October 7th. >> Sounds good. Should be good. your announcements. >> I will not be here then. Just not that. >> No. All right. >> So, will you send somebody in your place or >> or do you just not >> I think in the past they have send somebody different. So, >> okay. >> Beast. I'll be in India. >> That sounds amazing. >> India. Wow. >> Nice. >> What are you doing there? >> Looking for peasants. property. >> South Dakota's a lot closer. >> All right. Um, >> different. >> I'll call for a motion to adjourn meeting. >> I move the motion. >> Second. >> All right. All in favor say I. >> I. >> Post sign. Meeting adjourned.