e we call to order the regular meeting Dayton city council stand for the pledge Al to flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right a motion in a second for the agenda a motion I'll second any discussion no changes all right all those in favor say I I all those opposed say no carries 5 to zero consent agenda I in a motion on a second no motion no second any discussion um I had one on item f um looks like there's 65k from Three Rivers is that cover the entire Bridge um no not so the scheduled B oh the 65 I think does so I think it's a the bid included the labor and the associated work with the extension of the Culvert the Culvert was actually purchased separate so that was paid under a separate invoice okay but yeah it it did come in significantly lower than we thought it was a very unique pipe so we thought it was going to be very expensive and then the labor came in uh much cheaper than expected as well so is that that that was laying out there yeah it's it's been delivered out there yeah looked like quite a few feet of it so okay a lot of that was needed for the the turn or the turn Lanes oh sure so it was just the additional extension so about 60% of that is for Three Rivers the other 40 wasn't he did regardless that's all I had anybody else only question I had is you know and if we came in under again what plans do we have we've been under twice now seems like pinus is cheap right now are we planning on moving some projects up to take advantage of that so we can get some maybe deals on some other projects we had for next year or we we are um so surprisingly the binus didn't come in that cheap on this one it came in right where we were expecting it to on the other one so we're a little befuddled on where the the savings is it just seems like an aggressive bidding time it's kind of across the board everything is slashed a little bit there's nothing um super obvious um in this one um but regarding your question and we intend to have this at the next council meeting even is to pull some of the just because they're easy projects to implement pull some of the future year seal coat and fog seal projects forward just to get those off of future years just to kind of alleviate that spending um in accordance with the pavement management plan so um we put together a scope for that work and and we'll bring up proposal to you at the next meeting you think the ones you're pulling up will come in under budget as well then based upon what you're seeing or you don't know for the seal coat um we haven't had any uh bid openings this year to compare where that those prices are coming um that's that one's uh pretty specialized there's only a couple well probably three companies that do it in the Metro routinely okay so isn't the seal code I thought we decided that that wasn't really worth it anymore we we had stopped doing it for a little while it's one of those that kind of goes in Cycles um kind of Statewide for that matter of people doing them or not but other communities have been having large success with the seal coat by applying a fog seal over the top of it and that's been addressing a lot of the concerns so it's another uh treatment that locks the rocks in and increases the longevity of the treatment so we we are doing both of them with this thank you I did notice that the the the losing bid um or the highest was significantly high and it was the pavment the paper yeah what what it almost look like they misunderstood something by the numbers no it it was a big range so there was three bids and they were spaced pretty evenly over a pretty big range um yeah I don't know there was no questions for clarifications or apparent misunderstandings or you know the bids are electronic so they're checked for or other seemed odd but okay yeah it was a big range between the high and low especially they might just be busier and they just don't need to work and it could be B it high I'll B it high if I get it great could be but yeah the high numbers where I seen was on material side it doesn't matter anybody got anything else okay we have a motion go ahead I got a couple things in payment of claims but I think I answered one of them myself um the furniture creative Home Solutions and Business Furniture that's about 10 grand one of them is labeled fire department so Gary must know about that new office yeah it's for the um office um upgrade or not even upgrade um completion upstairs across from my office okay and then the um office furniture I don't know if that came through on that one or not okay um yeah that'll be coming uh probably in the another few weeks as my understanding and there's another one for Road Machinery I think that's the one I answered myself that's got to be the uh the uh what am I trying to say for the tech T trailer yeah t trailer okay that's it anybody else yeah well I guess just okay two other quick comments one um thanks for putting the description back into the into the report I appreciate that and so now here's the downside of that um you didn't have any questions the last time to put back in um it looks like we're we're paying about $250 a meeting for minutes yep and it seems like something we ought to look at I don't know if it's just not a competitive market or if it's or what but that seems like a lot I'm going to defer that one to am and I yeah I wasn't very impressed either I mean there were a couple things in there that I think were interpreted oddly but yeah I agree with that they weren't wrong but they weren't right right so I mean it's no big deal because it's minutes but yeah for sure bring that up because we obviously I mean I get the edited I'll edit them and can edit them if something's not accurate hit with another 250 or we no because I just do it from there so we don't yep so we don't send it back to the company to have them edited or anything so does it make sense that it's $250 a shot yeah the contract really hasn't no what I'm getting at is they want work you're talking about $ I mean it is pretty labor intensive if you're not here at the meetings to be able to decipher and then type out what happened at the meeting so it is pretty labor intensive I bet you it probably takes some four hours at a minimum to do that's pretty good for contract to work most contract to work is like 250 to 300 an hour for bet I bet you takes them four hours to do it four hours yeah because by the time they have to watch the meeting and the meetings are 2 three hours long now they're watching the meeting they're typing and they have to go back in and proof read and it was a more expensive one because it was a longer meeting so it is there is a base fee and then for additional hour so if we go a 4H hour meeting like we've had some longer meetings it is an up charge for that correct okay yeah this looked like it was billing for a couple of different committees they do commiss as they do the commissions they do EA they do is generally a short meeting and the last one was not no it wasn't um and then planning in parks so that could be why it's more of this one round keep those kind of hours I you know I guess maybe it's it's a fair rate it's just doesn't I don't know I have a hard time imagining it taking more than an hour or two to put these minutes together but you got to watch the meeting and then do it so if you got so really depends on the length of the meeting yeah yeah they're not doing it real time sure correct all right just stuck out for me that's all I got even if they were doing it real time the meeting three hours long it's still three hours of their time I guess yeah okay another comments I got one more go ahead I just came up with it in the uh um it says here for the uh part the US Sports Grant the total cost of the project is uh 125,000 we're requesting a grant of a 100 and then we're going to match that up that 100 how can we be matching the 100 because the playground area in the uh POG improvements is is totally with all the landscaping and the concrete work is around 125,000 I think this is for uh 21 yeah 21 it's for the playground the 125 so the playground is 100 a quter and but the whole area and we've included the whole buildout of that area of the park as part of the grant as are are matching funds into that cuz that Grant's not for the baseball field that Grant is for the parks equipment itself yeah it's just for the playground equipment for the south north end yeah yes just help supplement the cost it was just a little misleading the total cost of the equipment is 100 a qu but we're going to match the grant so need'd be spending 200 I get it okay anything else okay all those in favor say I I all is opposed say no carries 5 to zero on to open forum is anybody online all right so much for that staff consultant Council updates all right yeah mayor council I got a couple updates fre night I'll try to run through them as quickly as possible I need to engage the Council on a work session being proposed by the Planning Commission for the master plan the Planning Commission is suggesting the next Planning Commission meeting date of May 2nd at 5:00 p.m. um because they're not able to make the 23rd as the next council meeting so the alternative is to just have a council work session on the master plan which is also an option we could do that at the next council meeting on April 23rd at 5 so I need to know what the council would like to do or if you have any other suggestions that would be appreciated this is related to the master plan yeah I don't have a problem yeah I can I can make that I wouldn't this on May 2nd so yeah so the Planning Commission would like to have a dual work session between the Planning Commission and the council now it's saying that the council has to follow that but that's what the Planning Commission is asking or suggesting before the regular Planning Commission meeting yes so it'll be at 5:00 P p.m on May 2nd is their Planning Commission meeting well then maybe yeah I can do that that's fine okay second sounds good 5m 10 okay okay sounds good um and then I want to discuss the open meeting LW I did send this out last week in the weekly update from um Amy with uh CC foran being out of the um out of the council chambers last week and not being able to vote I want to make sure that everyone is aware so that not the public you know the public can know but basically in order for a council member or mayor to participate in an interactive technology all the following conditions have to be met and that's all members of the body are participating in the meeting and they we can hear and see each other which we are able to do members of the public are present at the regular meeting location can hear and see all discussion testimony of the members of the body which would be um we are able to do that as well at least one member of the body is physically present at the regular meeting location so that's somebody here um all votes are conducted by roll call which we were able we could be able to do and then the location of the member who is not present has to be open and accessible to the public which is the part we did not meet so in the future we'll make sure to note if somebody's not going to be here we'll make sure you note your location and that you'll be able to be in a public location when you're at that spot and then we'll be able to have individuals participate remotely so just so everyone's aware also in the um watching this afterwards of why C shot was not able to participate last time just so we would need an address that we address and then a public public point and how far in advance would you just enough for to get it on the packet so so it has to go on the agenda know a 3day yeah it have to be what Thursday Wednesday or Thursday before she kind of implied and I didn't see this in the statute either beforehand but um that um and she didn't say this but she kind of implied it would have to be open to Dayton residents yep now and I I got the the feeling that what she was talking about that that would be unrealistic to ECT they could get at a location in Hawaii yep I don't know that the statute cares that they have to be dating residents or that no they' be a to get to them I know it's reasonable they can get to Hawaii they can buy a plane ticket and I don't think it says anything what reasonal it just say public setting I think correct I think you just have to know your location so that people know where you have to be at yeah like if you're at a hotel you have to know you have to be in a hotel lobby or something to be at the meeting so I feel like we did this you were at a library last summer yes and we posted that address ahead of time and did it the correct way we should have and okay we just kind of just want to make sure everyone's on the same page so we know we're moving forward I know this was sent out to the council but I want to make sure that everyone else knew as well why you weren't able to participate last week um did you want to ask the park Improvement project question or do you want me to okay U I know I sat down a timeline on the last week's um which one of the two options would you like although neither one of them is ideal I want to make sure that we can at least have it so one of them is two weeks beforeand and one of them is two weeks after Marty and I are so so there was a you remember the timeline with the when we yeah so I looked what about the third option where Parks comes in not on the first Tuesday which we talked about with them and they said they'd be open in doing that so that they could be part of it but not slow it down like I don't feel that there's a third option that's not even talked about is the two options that we that's the second option I the second option um moves to the park commission meeting from the 4th of June to the 20th of June y because the problem is that so they would be uh be able to look at the uh bid sheets and make the recommendations for alternates bid sheets take 30 to 45 days to create that's the problem 30 to or is it 45 days or something like that he wants 60 days basically to do it so after they see them it just comes us the following week right correct yes that's so he's going be able to turn around any changes in the week that they recommend well it will be the alternate selection so that would be what we would be including into the project itself if it was under budget we would add the alternates in and it' be their recommendations and then it would come to you for for approval of that their recommendations so essentially the two weeks I think is that we'd send all bid documents beforehand the council would approve bid documents and then the Parks Commission will review the bid documents before came back to council for approval of the bids they would review that they would review the bids the themselves that come in so the bid documents would be approved by you guys then it be released the next day then it would go out to bid for 20 20 something days I think and then once that's opened it will get um we will go over it and then it will be presented to the Parks Commission for them to select the alternates Depend and sort out the budget once they've made those uh ctions we will bring it to the council for your approval on those alternate selections essentially it moves up the process two weeks so what it does do is that the Parks Commission would not review the bid document before I went out to bid if that makes sense so like they would review the bid document if you wanted to wait two extra weeks to riew the bid document and then go up to bid versus us just having it brought to you guys as Council you guys authorize us to go out to bid and then Parks Commission reviews the bid just after they come in what would they be reviewing so centr par commission saw what was going out to bid at the last meeting so everything that they saw is what's could be included in the in the um bid documentation the construction plans corre I guess for me I would appreciate knowing if we have to prioritize what ultimately we're going to be able to afford um I would appreciate knowing what the Parks Commission was recommending but for the alternates yes yeah okay I get it so you're okay approving the bid document to go out to bid as in here's what we want and give it to contractors a through z um and then once they get the bid documents back then bring them to the Parks Commission and then to you guys for what they recommending correct okay you're comfortable with doing it before that would eliminate two weeks or two weeks in a couple days yeah essentially I'm trying we're trying to get this done ASAP for about four months behind the ball that's why um so my only so I'm I trying to weigh this out from a speed perspective versus making sure they hear their input so I was going to say this when it was my turn to talk but they did want me to pass on their thanks for keeping them involved in the process and they appreciate the ability to weigh in and add value so thank you everyone for that um my only concern would be is if there's something they thought was going to be in the bid and they get the bids back and it wasn't there so I uh I don't know if we can email it to them to review and just say hey review this if you think anything's missing let me know before we send it off to bid like would that slow it down to like give them a day just review it the bid documents beforehand ver having a meeting we yeah that is a possibility we could do that um and then if there is any uh changes in there we can ISS issue an addendum okay yeah then I think I'd be okay doing it that rout Le they get the chance to see them they can try to catch anything that may have somehow there's a lot been talked about three different Parks so it's it's been a lot so I think that'd be good and then if I was that my GD one what the actual bids came back at so I could pick the Alternatives doing it beforehand becomes very and we would do that cerebral the second half we will for sure have review before you guys got but I think sending it to them with like a day or two to review and maybe send them an email now letting them know like hey you're going to get this on this date be aware you've got like a day or two to review it and then send it back then they get the chance to review it they can send back their notes to you via email they still get to have input but it doesn't require a special meeting or anything and shouldn't we can probably live with a day I'm assuming a day or two not asking for a lot so I timing I everything's on a real tight turn around here so good yeah okay um last last two things um would the council be interested in having a table at the open house or you guys want to walk around and talk to people I'll be walking around I kind of prefer to wander around sounds good last one is just to let you guys know next Wednesday I believe we're going to have the um employee breakfast um cil's invited as well and want to let you know that we close down City Hall for a couple hours so that's all I got thank you so much okay I've got one comment on the park thing y uh we're only talking about the North End of the park right correct property that we actually own correct okay correct well wait we're talking about the whole thing we're only getting bids on the North half because we're trying to make sure we leave enough money to cover what we think the South half will cover is my understanding well we don't even have the land yet in my my my concern on the south end on the 6 Acres that we don't have I'm not so sure it's right to even turn that into a park or even accept that as Park land because the land is more valuable in houses it's more valuable to the city in h we yeah we are only going off for bid for the north side that is it yeah just so that you're aware with the things that made decisions on the South Side will'll be done in the later dat okay thank you that's all I have anyy um I had the recycling coordina meeting with hennipen County and um you guys will probably be getting contacted this is a monthly meeting um that all cities within hennipen County are um they have been coming up with um trying to meet their 2040 zero waste um plan that they have um and part of that earlier on you were aware that they're talking about closing the facility and I've given you that update um they've now come up with some new requirements that will be um affect cities uh to take on responsibility um and some of those include offering organic recycling curbside um and when we looked at that last time that's up to $60 per home per household um and they also talked about any City that's over 5,000 in population um um a lot of these goals will have to be implemented by 2030 so there are some massive changes that will be required because we are in henpen County to to meet um and so I think some Commissioners will be reaching out um the the County Administrator has reached out to City administrators um in May and we'll get further information on things that cities are going to have specifically organic or is this no there's um there's different requirements so there was um a presentation present did with um so it's based on a point system that the county has to meet and there are required things that will affect cities and will have to be required to meet so many points um so there's like eight different things kind of to choose from and you know one might be worth five points and one might be worth two points and we'll kind of have to pick and choose what are um to meet the point scale um things that we're going to implement um so just letting you know there are some significant um changes coming along with that and that was one of my major concerns when I brought up closing the herk facility to begin with and um just giving you the heads up and maybe start some communication with commissioners of um you know around Recycling and whether it's organic or not um I think cities are starting to get um a little nervous on um how that's going to affect us Us and how we operate do you have a copy of that deck you can share with us so we can yeah sure they presented that'd be great that be awesome thank you again it's an hour meeting it's very R I'm sure it's got to fast forward one and a qu yeah no it's it's um it's pretty condensed on the important piece of it but yeah I will send that out in an email thank you um and then I just wanted a quick update um we had that planning position open a senior planning position uh we have reposted for that we did not receive applications at some point I don't know if we are going to want to hire firm or figure out um how we're going to fill that vacant position but um so if you do know anyone in the planning world and um has experience or is interested in working for Dayton send them our way I thought you had somebody all lined up for that no I didn't oh I did Jason said no again again yes all right Marty mayor and Council have a couple of updates a wellhe head treatment PL um they have been installing some plumbing and electrical in the slab um some conduit work and stuff that needs to go in there before they fill it up with concrete um so it's embedded into the floor of the uh the the slab um they're hoping to pour the floor slab sometime this week or early next week we they're dependent they got a little bit delayed with the snow and the rain that kind of mess with them a little bit um Parks uh water Trails project National Park Service has confirmed a $100,000 Grant um for the project so I'm just getting started on the paperwork um to get that funds transferred to the to the project um MSA have completed their surveying on the site and they're starting to draw up plans and specs for uh the bid documentation um and we are anticipating having to do a environmental study similar to the head treatment plant on that that project we haven't got the paperwork back yet for the funding but I'm sure that's going to be part of it so we're anticipating that um General um our part-time um employee and seasonal opportunities we have received two seasonal applications who've been invited for interviews but they haven't uh responded yet and one application for the parttime position uh we have extended the closing date on the part-time position by uh two weeks through 19th of April see if we can get anything else coming in what's the hourly rate on the part time what's the hourly rate that we're offering on the 23 yeah 23 it's up it's 23 to 30 or something like that and requirements are heartbeating 18 or what what for the uh the part-time position or the seasonal part time a part-time yeah is generally um 18 and above for that and heartbeat and the ability to lift things I'm guessing second any the ability to lift things I'm guessing yeah yeah it's where the manual labor I think is the hard part they're probably trying to film or even having experience running equipment or a lot more yeah the experience will help yeah well did my guy get a hold of you no no come on Scott you always got a guy what he called me and asked me if he could apply he called me I'll get after him should have called he's not good about going either first he says he's going and then all of a sudden now you want to hire him right he shows up when he's supposed to Reliable I'm sure probably puts a gabage to a lot of it good evening mayor members of council um May or no I'm sorry April 22nd we will start you'll start to see some of Marty's sandwich boards primarily to the south end of the city for recruitment um we did make some uh new signage to try to meet our own standard as opposed to just the little things we stick in the ground so we'll be focusing down south on that and uh that will go through probably a month after that her Physical Agility on May 30th mayor and Council uh last night was the first night of Hunter Safety we had 10 kids register um from the around the area um we glad we kind of didn't get anym because the room was full with parents and kids so um it was the first class they have three more classes in a field day so it should be done in the next 2 and 1 half weeks um and then our two officers started on Monday they're still here today so that's a good sign um the first weeks of their training will be uh use of force uh firearms and then uh policy and everything um it'll be about two weeks before they'll even see a the squad car and be traveling around in it so that's it Jason uh no updates here Scott uh my my only update is is uh shout out to uh daniil for the egg Dr egg hunt it was awesome great job Danielle did great big big event Travis nothing from me I got nothing D not me either I was going to say the same thing shout out for the Easter egg hunt and then uh we had the opportunity and we were invited to go to invent and have a tour of the facility thank than you to all of them for having us out um they're very aware of the benefits they have with their location and the the sunrise they kept talking about come over the lake so they're gracious for that and they want to get involved in the community they were going to reach out and talk about maybe trying to adopt the street that they're on to keep it clean and those kind of things may work with Marty to have a clean up day twice a year to keep that you know junk free so um just thanks for having us out and it's a really cool facility right uh item J approval of state aid system revisions think you have to click on the Bar mayy Council um tonight is a relatively simple item but staff thought it might be a opportune time we hear a lot of discussions on state aid and funding for roadways um so I just threw some very basic information together to just give a super high level overview of what the program is and and how we might go away uh maximizing its potential if you will so just generally speaking cities with population of 5,000 or greater are eligible to be state aid cities uh the revenue for this program is generated from gas tax um at a state level and then it's distributed amongst the eligible cities based on two factors um half of the allotment for each City is based on population so basically the pile the pool of money is split into two and then half of it goes towards cities with population and the other half towards needs and the needs is determined essentially on the higher traffic levels the higher the needs little more to it than that and it's tiered but that's generally the the process for that and then just on the money that is uh distributed to the cities there is some restrictions on some of it and less so on others um 25% of the allotment is goes into What's called the general maintenance fund which goes to Public Works and they can use it as they see fit for maintaining the roadway as a whole and there's no tracking as far as I know there's no tracking specific to that or reporting that's needed for it the other 75 goes into what's called a construction fund and those dollars can be used for specific projects that are approved from state aid for use uh specific to routes that are designated as MSA or Municipal state routes by the city um and I'll get into just a little bit more information on on what that means um and just to note the I added the numbers for the allotments from 2024 um just for reference so 138,000 for general maintenance and then the 414,000 uh for construction and as I think council is aware we're paying back in a advancement that was done for Pine View so that 414 just came off of our debt if you will or our payback um I guess just a note on that and I think I included this in your packet um I think there's about a 14 to $16,000 if I remember right um it's 13 Grand 13,000 um balance so next year assuming it was the same as this year um the account would go to about a 400,000 positive which is good the maintenance dollars to 25% that doesn't get used for that debt servicing it does not that always goes um um just to public works for use and maintenance y also I a typo I think I had I think I said 25% of the roadways and the um of the total can be designated as state it's actually 20 I think I had the wrong number in the packet I apologize for that um I know this is hard to read but this is just showing the roads that are currently designated as state a routes um I can barely see it and I'm 3 Ines from the screen so the the just to show it if you can see the I'll say the reddish roadways those are County roads so we do not have to designate those they only roads that are jurisdiction of Dayton private roads would be excluded as well uh the green roads are what has currently designated uh s City roads and we I do have another one with the proposed changes if there's if there is any questions on specific routes um I'm happy to send out the P so you can actually see yeah you can zoom in it is in the packet as well you can zoom in closer to see what roads are included um so considerations I go into the designations and again this is the action tonight is as we're we're changing and adding designations to the system to try to maximize that allotment for future years um so again 20% of the jurisdictional road length um Dayton has around 77 miles of roadway currently which means we can aot about 15 miles um as designated routes for use in this program again the needs are based on vehicle counts um they go in ranges I think it's I'm probably off on the numbers but 0 to 300 is one range 300 to 1500 another 15 to 6,000 and then 6,000 to something much larger um so the higher category you can get in the more your needs will read and the higher your allotment becomes so we try to get our higher traffic roads designated when we can do the county measures those right um actually Public Works does oh we provide our own measurements yes oh that's those are the the hoses out across the road okay um that that we'll put out there required only required to count on state aid routes yeah um but we do do other ones as well just to kind of track if we should be moving our designations over um for those reasons so um just a few other considerations um uh just a note eligible expenses can include RightWay Acquisitions this stated dollars can be used for that so if there's any planned routes you can actually designate a what they call an imaginary road so you can use your mileage across a cornfield um or where you think another a new road may go in the future you don't get any needs for that because there's no cars on it but you can allot it and therefore you can use the funding for RightWay Acquisitions and then the construction of the new road when that time comes and then of course for the construction of the roadways along with the engineering for those projects it's roadway improvements and storm water associated with those roadway improvements are eligible and then the other items are pretty minor um Sometimes some lighting a little bit of the restoration some of those items can be covered but otherwise um no utilities and typically no Trails or or other uh amenities if you will um there is a a payback in other words um when money is used for a project it's depreciated over a 20-year period I use the example of Pine View and I I don't remember when that would have started Ed I'll say maybe 2020 that might have started so if we were to revoke Pine View from that at any point prior to 20 years we'd have to pay back the balance if Will so if we took it off the system if it was 2020 if we took it off in 2030 it's a linear we'd have to pay half of the money back to it so generally we want to leave them on there the full 20 years after the project um and then just we we look at the city CIP if there's any expected projects or anything programmed that might be of use or it might be useful to use state aid funding for we want to get those on the on the system if we can um and then just a final note we can make these changes every year um there is an approval process with it it's a pretty simple process like tonight you'll approve a resolution that'll get sent over we already have pre-approval and then they'll just make the updates it's it's about a three-step process it's not real time consuming um So based on the fact that funding is based upon the vehicle counts we want busiest chunks of Roads is that kind of the idea generally so that's yeah so there's a lot of things to balance I was going to say this almost seems like a game theory kind of a yeah because could couldn't we get a bunch of money based upon usage this year and then next year change it and use the money on roads that like we don't have a lot of usage but we want to have usage on and then lock that in for 20 years in the future whatever yes and that is somewhat what we do okay perfect I understand it and if we have a length I'll actually show you on our modification slide we'll use that balance to just designate something because it's something's better than nothing we know we'll never use money there but we put it on there you'll I have a specific example on the next slide so my question is where you mentioned that uh we don't designate County Roads right but what about where our roads intersect the county road and I'll say the other end of Pine View at Dayton River Road or North dond Lake Road so couple other things I go in here um designations have to terminate at equal or higher jurisdiction so it has to they have to begin and and either at other state aid designated roadways or a higher jurisdiction County Road State State Highway um Interstate other um dollars can always be used on higher jurisdiction so we can use roads we can use our funds on County Roads at any time so that's always love that including the intersections um so you can always use it on high does that address what your I think so okay so if we've got it I mean the roads that you've got designated if we decided that we wanted to put a roundabout at North Diamond Lake Road and Dayton River Road we have the ability to do that even though we haven't specifically designated that because of higher jurisdiction exactly yep yep and same would be true if we had one leg of it we can always spend like if it was both City and that's two County Roads we had City and County Road same scenario as long as long as it's again that road like P View and Dayton Road P view ex y y that one the city or the county cover their portion which was nice so we didn't have to use State a on their their project but well think you Pine Ro talk about the the north other than Pine View North End Dayton River oh on a future project yeah sure that one I can't speak for the county um so here's the proposal revisions they um you can show the change see the changes may be a little bit better and if you if you notice noon Drive is is highlighted on there we had just enough mileage to cover that so we just we just picked something that had the same length just to use what kind of shape is it in oh I it wasn't even evaluated to be honest okay it just it was the right length to designate so we would get more than zero in our needs category so our pre the last time we did the upgrade so or update right do we have any of those in the new one um no we we do have a little bit of a balance there's about a 4/10 of a mile balance that's unused which we we could have probably found something similar to that um to use up but we we didn't done this one and there was no um allocation as far as I mean you you get this lump of MSA money is it allocated by those MSA so you can put it all on one road if you want okay y it goes into a single account based on your whole system need and then you can use it um anywhere on the system and again you can I mean like was said we could put it on all the highest traveled roads until we want a project and then we move our resignations to where we want to use the money and that's that's okay to do do we feel like now it's on our highest traveled roads or do on roads we plan on using the money for next year one or the other that that's our attempt you'll actually see the 13th in in purple that one surprisingly I I continue to be surprised by this U 113th is one of our busiest roads it's a dead end um it's over a thousand Vehicles a day um so we have it designated on there um so we did leave that on there um just in case the project were to go through for 113th we can always take it off later we'll continue to get those thousand cars a day on the on the roadway to to benefit from that some of the bigger changes we were actually going to do this this um at least two years ago um but we didn't because of the realignment of West French leak Road and then the extension of point out with the cursor here maybe and it didn't matter because we weren't getting money anyways right we were what we weren't getting money anyways yeah but our lot would have been higher so we would have paid it off quicker if we would have if we managed this properly it'll change our allotment the roads were not existing so the traffic was zero so we wouldn't have have got the allotment for it so we waited until those roads were done um just so we designated instead we had Zanzibar which is a dirt road up until last year we did yep that has actually been for quite some time if I remember right and part of that was in uh I forget the year 1998 maybe um maybe it was after that um East French Lake Road used funding so we did not when we did these updates in 2017 I think might have been the last time this was run there was a balance so we didn't want to peel that one off because there would have been a repayment associated with it that has now fully depreciated so that's why the removal at this time so do we do we know should we be adjusting this annually like how often should we be looking at this it's been you said 2017 was the last time so it's been seven years yeah and and we were going to do it probably about five but it can vary I mean there's new mileage um every year so all the New Roads that go in 20% of that builds our balance so we can a lot New Roads R roadways um I mean if our if we don't have any significant changes it might not benefit to to move it around if we don't have any projects if we have projects to do certainly it needs to be reviewed or if there's significant changes where traffic volumes go way up even if we don't change anything shouldn't we review it every year Well we and we do okay yeah so it's kind of constantly monitored even if you will and um as projects come up we look at where state aid designations are so we can have potential funding sources for for those projects as well so that was it um the the action tonight is to approve the resolution associated with these changes um upon the sign copy of that we'll send it to mot and we'll get the final adjustment from the commissioner uh on these changes and they will be considered for the 2025 a lot when we submit these will they give can they give us a if you would have had this in place last year this is how much more revenue or how much more money we would have given you are they able to are they or you able to tell us that so we can plan for that based on changes but they do um there's quarterly reports so this is a year-long process for determining the state aid allocations um I mean you can see the comparison year to year you have to look for each City individually um it's hard because the revenue always changes the number of cities always changes the population always I mean it always it's it's a lot of moving Parts um I suppose we could probably try to I was very curious if be hard looking if we had had this in place for this year's versus for next year's how would our V lopment have changed supp it be higher lower I'm assuming higher but it'd be good probably to run that it would have probably been higher except for we took we would have again had some imaginary RS so they would have actually had zero so it may have actually gone b lower because we had say East trench Lake on there which was above zero okay got and again they're not they're not huge like we move a road and your allotment doubles yeah they end up being kind of small slivers but let's add up the slivers we can is kind of the thinking on it and again half of it's flat out on population which is hard to control or impossible all right I need a motion in a second I'm goad I'll second okay any more discussion all those in favor say I I all those opposed say no motion carries five zip item K uh this has not been in front of council since I think like November probably um it's the intersection of 81 and Territorial Road and I have a little bit in here for a refresher so this is located in the southwest part of town on County Road 81 um just north of the maple girl border where territorial currently comes in a kind of a skewed angle if you will next to the territorial Commons development that went in a few years ago um this was the I'll say the concept or the um General configuration that was considered um back in November um and prior in response to Future development as indicated there um there was a lot of concern on how do they have access and who's paying for the upgrades needed to support that access and what needs to be done um 281 um in accordance with the county requirements uh for all of this to occur so in uh I guess oh just more background I guess before we go to that um so the benefits were were identified and and uh known to be warranted um again the connection to the development parcel uh adjacent to it the past expectations were shared as these developments came in that the development needs to pay for their connections but it wasn't always real clear where that line was on what's the connection what's the overall intersection configuration so um three developments came and all withdrew um not that it was the sole reason but it was certainly noted as one of the um one of the primary factors for their withdrawal was that they weren't clear on the expectations for that uh for that additional work needed at this intersection so in November the city decided that okay let's make this a city project let's figure out what's needed we'll get a cost estimate together with it and then we'll figure out you know what might be the responsibility of the developer so they have an idea of this as they bring their application forward for that property and then the project would Advance at a later date um from there so all that was authorized at this time is a a preliminary layout so on the screen is a geometric layout that has been um confirmed to be adequate for um the expected traffic levels and turning movements at that intersection as well as meeting all of the County requirements on society one this has been reviewed with the county they did have some minor comments on it but they were um essentially they were almost negligible at this point they were very minor comments just that they would like to see in the final drawings um we didn't even feel they were War Ed to put onto this figure because none of us including me would have even noticed the difference they were so minor so um and then the cost estimate developed with this so it is a project we're expecting will approach probably $2 million um for all of this and I think that's an alignment with what was originally shared if I remember right I think we were ranging between one and a half and two million so I I think we're pretty close to where we expect it to be and the County's going to throw in a million um that was not included in their comments but we can request we can make requests for it and then the other component of it is uh just looking at how this the cost sharing might be accomplished for it so this this is a a scenario of a way to to help determine those prices so just the color coding is just how we broke down the cost with the project just to make it a little more little maybe easier to decipher you know what cost are associated with what needs and how that can move forward so we just broke it down by you know the West leg is that required to accommodate the development and then the yellow red and then yellow red is the realignment of the city road and then the blue is the cety want improvements that the the county would be requiring so there's an overall cost of breakdown of it and then just going a step further see it's covering a little bit um on how those percentages could be shared between the city and developer again these these could be different depending on things I mean the the thought being that the West leg is essentially 100% benefit to the development and and no additional benefit for through a regional traffic so it would be 100% born by the developer um the east and south leg if we were to consider it part of the intersection realignment and upgrades um we'd kind of lump those together if you will so that you sell and 81 and then the reason for the 85 and the 15 it was suggested that possibly you know whatever traffic contribution is responsible of the development that might be the appropriate share to charge for them 15 is a complete guess on what their participation might be um in other words what we'd do is we'd find how many users are there on this intersection when the development goes in how many new trips is that bringing that percentage would be their responsibility where's the County's responsibility uh that would be part of the regional traffic so that would be the overall so this it's City it could be a split City Cony cost could be left or developer and other could be a different breakdown to consider but um just city was used for the designation or non-developer here just put the word government there we could do that as well or or possibly Grant sources this is not scored well for grant opportunities but we continue to to look for opportunities to for those so South Lake doesn't include a light does it no no signal yeah no signal so that's what I was going to ask is I mean I understand you know and I think we talked about this last time that that that will allocate those costs but those costs don't mitigate the issue right and the issue is the intersection yes I yes you are correct the it would take a signal to create the brakes in the traffic to be able to allow access at least during peak hours and my understanding was was a lot of our at least a lot of our hesitancy in putting in some heavy development there residential development was that intersection so yeah I know do the county say anything about a light would they be willing to put you talk they they didn't comment one way or the other um on it um I mean they they continue to say it doesn't made warrants yep at this time I I don't know of a study having been done since probably 2016 to actually look at it but I would suspect it doesn't me warrants according to their standards I do like the way you broke this out I think it makes it very digestible for us and our possible investor on that property so that's help so thank you for that sure uh so that's that's all we had no formal action this was just an update um we would suggest updating the the layout if if situations dictate changes are warranted or as time goes I'm sure those costs will rise as well so put inflation on there um if there's any length of time before development comes forward um certainly use this information to negotiate or discuss with develop ERS as they come in um and then again we don't suggest moving forward with the project necessarily until outside funding is reached or the development comes in that might be the outside funding um to Warrant the project do you have any sense um of the with the three developers that have backed out you said that wasn't the only reason but not having any Clarity was a component any sense of what the cost of this West leg would have done to them in terms of their attitude about the development um I'd be interested I have not gone back since we did this work um I did have discussions um offline if you will with the developer to see if um there would be reconsideration if there was some clarity put on this and the answer was probably that was the best I got um so maybe worthwhile maybe worth circling back with them um I think one of theirs at the time was that was right when the interest rates were very high as well so I think there was other components that maybe even overshadowed this but it certainly was um one of them so um yeah with that maybe we reach back out to the last one I I don't anticipate the the first two um I don't think they got all that favorable a feedback actually with their projects but I think the third one was probably um more accepted so maybe we do approach approach them again and see if there would be aware sure we can move forward was something different if the council wants to but our idea of staff was wait till development came in andless there's another direction from cc to me if any further discussions i' I'd I'd be after the county for the traffic light for sure just didn't know it traffic signal probably no less than 400 450 more likely half million to have on there just for just a ballpark of what that might be yeah but the way you've got it broken out in there if the county would throw in just say they throw in a half a million looks for the light mhm you can say that yeah well it's their Road I the question I had is if the developer saw this came back and was like yeah know we want to move forward with this are we as a city prepared for the co our share of that cost Associated to make that Improvement as well or are we going to be in the same boat where it's like you can do it but not until we improve the road and we're not ready to improve the road so you can't do it yet so right this is like a chicken or egg kind of sit we would have to move a project or two around to make sure that we could do that if we wanted if that was the case we don't currently have anything in the long-term plan for this I believe we do but I believe it's like 2027 or 2028 I believe we have something in there but it's just a little ways out so we have to flip-flop projects and take this project that we have out in 2027 2028 and move it to 2025 or whatever and then flip-flop the projects where does this intersection rate on our list of dangerous intersections um have you rated the list of dangerous intersection next Council Mee okay we're hoping yeah the some of the layouts are still getting um finalized on the the treatments I don't remember where this one fell on it the unfortunate part this sounds crash but the the severe the deaths that occurred were not attributed to the intersection right um so it didn't necessarily name this intersection as a dangerous site because they were both I this probably similar to the Pine VI thing where it seems dangerous but people know that and they look 14 times before they go or they avoid the intersection or so and I think if we were to do any Tiff or if we were to do anything with that we'd almost have to include lights cuz I I don't I mean we we this will make it better but not fix the problem exactly yeah so yeah we have to get the county to allow lights to go there in the first place which is probably going to be half the battle the other half is the cost so we just make the blue part a million and yeah but if the city kicked in on that project if the city kicked in 700 to get that done a half isn't that I think we have 750 allocated for that project so it's a conversation they have right I mean they've not committed dollar one so right yeah well ask for what we need thank you for the okay good presentation oh sure and those developer costs were spread over you you were saying three developments or three areas that we were looking at possibly no just three different developers had to pull yeah yeah yeah yeah okay but it seems like um it seems like there were some some areas and I don't know how we do this but it almost seemed like the whole area could possibly be um you know I don't know if you tip it for well because the stuff to the east is hard to know when that would even go um so you really couldn't directly allocate cost there but you could include that in a tiff area right so okay all right thank you uh item L uh mayor and councel um I would like to consider um l and m at the same time um I've bundled these two um pieces of equipment together so we can make the project work um the reason I want to do that is because we did discuss uh changing out the skider uh verbally last year um when we were well into the CIP process um um we discussed putting it on the CIP unfortunately I dropped the ball on that and it never got put onto the CIP um so we had um put a piece of equipment on there the mini excavator and trailer um and we budgeted $180,000 for that piece of equipment um what we've done is managed to get um a really good price on the trade in for the skid steer um to bring it down to $23,000 uh $23,000 to purchase um and so um we managed to get the two pieces of equipment and a trailer and some uh um uh buckets and that kind of thing um for the 152,000 so in my little Spiel on here I put that we'd see a CIP of 150,000 that should be 180,000 so the two pieces of equipment come in under budget by $2 27,43 so that's kind of why we put it this way so um I did see that that discrepancy I guess it's the 150 and the 180 but what the other thing I'm wondering about is you had a final price of 29923 um for the skid steer and that number doesn't include the the 18t R rut grapple attachment is that something you're not going to get that doesn't the 29 323 includes the grapple yeah say on page 148 which think you're looking at um has a subtotal of 29923 and then a final price of $ 29923 MH but the 8,300 for the grapple is not so is not included in that number that going be my day today next to the recommendation to approve the purchase of replace replacement skid steer and grabble from RTL for 29 323 what page is that on Dave 14 148 yes the sub total is there there's two different numbers there 923 or 323 so yeah there that is an error on the Excel file of not including that $8,300 grapple you are correct it's not included it is not included so should be 20 29 923 plus 8,300 so it's under budget number smaller correct yeah it's still under budget but I apologize that sorry I know you do that just to confuse me you know reading it yeah and me this is this the skid sh in like a rental program then or Le program whatever so we don't have to worry about maintenance cuz didn't we spend a bunch of money last year on fixing yeah we SP spent 14,000 on this and then before that we'd spent something like 20,000 on and this one we get a brand new skider every year yeah so we just got the new one from that and it cost us $2,000 to get the replacement skids steer that's so every year we get a new skids steer for two grand yeah yeah and don't worry about maintenance or part we have so everyone's like how do you know how you do this cuz we already have one that's on the same program that's why well I'm just wondering how they can afford that well because they buy it on state price and sell it to us and then when they take it back they can put it on the light and B lot based on the price of the manufacturers retail the difference although I've noticed a lot of these things they they carry their so the one that we're trading in that's about what they're selling for yeah um and I'm guessing that's about what we paid for it we paid 50 grand for it okay so we in 200 and 15 I believe yeah okay I like the Trad program spending 14 Grand last year like trade in program what I don't like about this whole deal is yeah we're doing this deal before the next item on the agenda and this skid steer is not on the 24 CIP so we're spending money that we didn't a lot for yeah I dropped a ball on that not get no that's fine I'm not blaming anybody I mean but we talked about it it came yeah we did we talked about it I mean it makes sense to trade a one that you're putting you know it's just like a used car I mean they'll nickel and dime you to death I get it however I wish we would have actually I should have thought about it to move the next item on the on this agenda forward before this MH um you guys go ahead and I just like to point out the all the on the items that are on the your agenda tonight we did save $46,988 equipment no and the bucket truck and the bucket right right that's that's where I hope moving forward we need to do a better job of what happened because there's no way there's no way possible that you can't know you're off that far throughout the year it's it's absolutely impossible get into that so at any rate next you guys yeah yeah next item you guys talk about this I mean do whatever you want any emotion second a motion now this is for items l and m approval on both do you need to amend the number on l no we'll just have the same motion and second on both items sure did you want motion yeah he's say to amend the number Amud the graph you're correct you're correct yes to change it from 29 to 38 yes I'll second with that Amendment uh who any more discussion all those in favor say I I I all those opposed say no no motion carries sooner or later there's got to be a lesson learned one okay item and last week all right get your puncher bag out here you go um you guys have all been briefed on this at least once so that's good but um I'm here to prevent uh present um Adam N resolution 16220 four of the year end transfers put together a quick slide so you can kind of see it visually and then I can explain what the differences are but um there's two of them that are basically normal or three of them all normal however the third one is um reverse of what we've had the last few years so um the two ones that are in red are the 61551 and the 22788 those are to close two funds so we paid off the bond and we also didn't end up using tiff19 we used it on our end as and we didn't give it out so normally we would charge the developer for those startup cost on a tiff they're roughly about 20 grand um and we had planned on doing that but obviously now we need to take that into our bond cost so I'm moving those dollars and closing that fund for it so that's item one that we typically do every year is just to close funds it's a normal process item two is in the 342 fund that's the three yellow items you see that's the first 75 connection fees um those are offsetting any tax levy so if we don't have 75 connection fees in a year we have to use tax levy to um pay for that bond that Bond I believe is paid off in 2028 so just a few more years left of that 2028 2029 um that is the largest one that's the one we did back technically in 2008 2007 when it was I don't even know how many 25 million or something like that just big honka number yep and then uh was refinanced in 2014 and 2015 and those were it's I think right now it's at like 12 million or something we pay about $2 million a year on that Bond maybe it's like 10 now I can't exactly out my head but either 10 or 12 million the main one that we want to probably talk about tonight is the general fund um historically at least from since I've been here in 21 um and probably a little bit before that you've had it transfer out every year of the general fund into the temp financing fund and that is to typically go with um over revenues that we budgeted um low revenues and got more revenues or we had expenditures that we didn't expend for whether that's we didn't do a project whether that's we didn't do something this is all related to the general fund or operations of the department department or of the city and not um anything else other than you know not Capital Equipment not pavement management this is strictly general fund so the breakdown of that 1.25 million is on the next slide so I'll go to that one now um and what we're looking to do this year is move back in 1.25 million um which is a large number and obviously a big thing that people are going to um look at so I want to make sure we break it down and show you know what actually happened so I'm going to start at the top left corner with the revenues um building perent Revenue that we had budgeted for came in $400,000 under budget that includes both building permits and plan check fees um and then Grant dollars we got $75,000 more in Grant dollars last year and we had $75,000 more in interest earnings so total revenue was under budget by 240 Grand so because of that we have to make up that Revenue somehow so if everything else stayed the same for this year we would have to move in $240,000 out of the temp Finance fund into the general fund because we said we're going to get $240,000 more revenues and we didn't get those so it's very important to know that moving forward when we're looking at revenues we got to be somewhat conservative as well it's good to be conservative but it's also good not to be too conservative where you're collecting a bunch of money people are getting that over tax is the is the main thing so it's a it's a delicate balance um expenditures so that's the other half of the things that we are able to control and the finance department was over budget by 40 Grand that was due to unbudgeted Physicians being hired during 23 water so I don't cough here I cough yeah are you on the edge of a cold or something just fighting one oh it's a good time um yeah all day so this was explained during the piring process take a cop drop take your T all right um the planning department was over budget this was mentioned during the yourf times with the council and we said we don't need to adjust our permit revenues or whatever during the year because we wanted to figure out where we're going to be at but this is related to using the consultant of land form during the year instead of having an in-house staff so has about $70,000 over budget on planning department the fire department was over budget by 100 Grand this was mostly due to repairs and maintenance one of which you guys had to manually approve which was like 35,000 for un engine repair and we had an unbudgeted study for the fire department of $20,000 that we paid for so far um we have the other 20 grand to pay in 2024 and then additional funding of the Fire Relief of 20 grand that was not budgeted for but it was budgeted for in 2023 or 2022 sorry so it was budgeted for in 2023 moved into a different fund then so that money got moved over into the temp financing fund last year so that money we're just pulling back correct technically it wasn't it's over budget but technically it was already in there before so it looks weird but I just want to make sure that's where that money went so the the money you went financing fund now it's coming back thank you um Public Works is over a budget by $180,000 ,000 most of this again as repairs and maintenance of equipment streets and street lights I know already had a really rough year last year about a total of all of those is $140,000 over budget motor fuels was 16,000 over and then insurance was $166,000 over that's what they do due to the number of pieces of equipment that we have and motor fuels is based on the fact that we had a ton of snow pling last year we paid do the NOS on motor fuels and the last one is contingency and that is due to the settlement that we approved by Cil during the year total of all of those is $490,000 which is what the expenditures are in total so if we look at overall $490,000 over budget and expenditures coupled with $240,000 under budget in revenues roughly $730,000 short in the total for the general fund for the year that doesn't equal the 1.25 million and so everyone's wondering what the difference of that is and that's $500,000 that is related to our fund balance policy so I have asked the aits I have not heard back yet since last week if we have to follow our fund balance policy obviously that's a policy that we'd like to follow but I don't know what the ramifications are if we don't follow that policy I don't know if it's just a comment on our audit and we can try to make it up this next year um being better at budgets and try to get more revenues in and so on and so forth or if we have to follow it roughly what that is is next year's budget for expenditures we should have 40% of that fund balance 40% of those expenditures sitting in our bank account at the beginning of the year because our budget and fund balance increased so much or should say our budget increased so much from 23 to 24 4% of that has to go into the beginning of the year so I think our I'm going to use round numbers here it's like a 1.5 or $ 1.6 million increase in the general fund Levy last year from 23 to 24 40% of that technically should go into fund balance at the beginning of the year now like I said I don't know if we have to do that if we don't I think we're at like 33% so it isn't like atrocious but I don't know if it's just a comment if it's just a comment we may want to say we don't want to transfer 500 Grand in it'll be after for the council to decide and I'll bring it back once my hear back from the Auditors so I think I asked you that question we met this past week I we before and uh my other question was how does it affect our credit rating if it's if you going answer back on both of those still yeah I still I asked both those questions to the Auditors the biggest thing that was a good comment and question is our credit rating currently is at Double A it's good so we get a good Bond rating if we go for Bond um I'm not planning on going out for a bond this year but they typically look back three years on on financials and if we're going to go out for a bond in 2027 or 2028 would we do facilities and they'll look back three years so it'll be close to the cut off of having that on there the look back basically at least don't see any downside to I mean if so let's say they come back and say you know we don't need the 40 Y and we can do 35 or what because it also seems to me that you know over time that number should that percentage could come down because the risk is lower yeah correct I would agree yep so there is no State Statute that says you have to have X percent but if let's say 35 if they come back with a good with it saying 35 is good we could always move it back out I mean correct whether it's sitting here or here yeah yeah that would save 500 Grand essentially on the transfer we would just do the shortfall in the general fund and we would leave the I'm going to use 500 as the round number here they would leave that in the in the temp financing fund for now could we move it for now and move it back if you find out something later yes we can do either um so the resolution is set up that I can that the transfer will be up to X and I can go lower than that too okay but the transfer the resolution is if you approve it tonight is up to 1.25 million so my question related to this 40% piece and because now I've heard two different numbers the number in the packet so a $514,000 increasing the budget from 23 to 24 and 40% of that is only 205,000 so 54,000 is 40% 40% is the 40% that's the 40% that's 40% the Del between last you took 500,000 and you divided it by I Mis read that I guess the the budget increase was was the 1.5 that I mention you got yep all right my question would be on the revenue side yep I thought I'm sure I thought we did just a while back did we not budget 200 homes for year so we did that this year for 2024's budget but not for 2023 is budget because that was done in 2022 yeah okay so we budg I was thinking that too but so we did lower it so when I first got here in 21 when I did the first 2022 budget we were at 325 homes or something we were budgeting for it was a lot significant amount which we made it and we and we're all good to go so like I said this is why you haven't seen this this way it's because we've always hit our number tail and then in 23 when we did it I said we should probably not do 325 we should pull back a little bit and we did 275 in the long-term plan funds we've always done 140 and in 23 we adjusted that to 200 so I think that's maybe what you're that's what I'm thinking getting at so there's a difference between what's in the long-term plans of like we're going to budget 200 homes for connection fees versus what's in the general fund of valuations cuz those can e and flow cuz they're based on the valuation of the home coming in yeah so I typically take the average and say average number of or the average house value multiply by 275 and that be pretty close um I don't ever include remodels and and decks and all those things those go into that number at the end of the at the end of the year but they bonus they're minimal yeah yeah and a question for department heads and maybe you don't I mean do you guys kind of keep a running total of where you are throughout the year I check monthly on uh what's happening that month on the bsna system to see where my budgets are yeah yeah same for myself take a look at it see where we're at um unfortunately with 60,000 with like in my budget per se 60,000 over the 30,000 we have budgeted um some of those things are already spent maybe to your point Scott is like training and some of that so order to try to offset you know if you figur it out in July can we offset something else to make that cost neutral so we're at zero not over budget at the end try to do that but with other things already in place sometimes that's difficult yeah yeah we have set up new processes this year I just sent an email out to the um department heads yesterday or late last week they said here's where we're at this year and we need just need to touch base more frequently so we don't have this happen again this is a learning obviously experience but I'll tell you for a fact Department have been over budget if you go back and look at the audits in the past they've been over budget almost every year it just gets covered up when we have more revenues than we think and then the bottom number says we made a profit or you say a profit but it's not really a profit it's more like we made ex dollar so really those those yeah departments have been over budget for many many years and if you look back at the audio you could probably see that and it's probably plain as day of which departments and I know the audit hit them every single year it's just this year happened to be a perfect store and we had way more expenditures yeah and also not enough revenues so now we're totally negative as in way more negative than we've ever been so it's compounded compounded greatly you already have kind of a battle plan to deal with this that's correct when will we learn what that means what uh so basically what I did is I sent out a um year to date for the count or for the department heads just this week where we're at to date making sure that we are verifying by line items where we're at and then if we come into an area where it's like okay this line item is going to be over no matter what how do we shave on other line items because the total department is what we're really worried about I'm not so concerned about per line item like if Gary wants to do extra training that's great let's just save on uniforms if we can you know right um I'm not I'm not worried about individual items I'm worried about the total department so we have that battle plan ready to go and then um I will meet with them monthly so I I have not historically met with any of the department heads monthly ever since I've been here and since you know three years a v year um but my plan will be to meet with them monthly just to go over things and see how things are going and making sure that we are ready to go so we don't have this happen again um it'll be my job to bring back revenues and then I will try to do better with the quarterly reports as well to the council so that you know battle plans of we've had a discussion on this here's what's going to happen in the future well I think this goes into like oftentimes I look at and we had a lot of repairs last year across a lot of departments right I think we all knew we were spending money that wasn't budgeted for cuz we had to fix things to make them work we had to fire they get down the street we got have skid steers that work those kind of things so but I think even when you get the quarterly reports of of just like here's where the revenue should be here's where it is here's where expenditure should be here's where it is by Department like think that's helpful at least for us because I think we approve them and we I want to say nickel and dime because it has a negative connotation we're talking about slivers of money the slivers start adding up to big chunks of high and that that is a good chunk of what we're seeing here for this yeah that's my and I think we talked about this some the other day too that you know in in my past that you know at least Midway through the year you want to take a good look and you know we used to call it the June freeze and you know if if we were at a point where revenues were not managing expenses then you know any kind of discretionary spending would come to a halt and for us that included uh routine Capital kind of stuff and I know that's a different account number than this but it's the overall City budget that we're we're looking at yep um from from our view of it and the the line items don't matter as much well even a horse trading between departments I don't I wouldn't be overly concerned about that as long as in the end we you can even look at it more as as operations you know in total um but I think you know that kind of serious look at it at least at least that often is something that that we should be doing going forward and and timeliness of information you know this one was a little bit of a a punch in the gut because we're hearing about it in April and there's nothing to do with it you know it's it's all done and over and so all we can do is think about how we do better going forward I agree I wish I knew her earlier cuz if I would have known earlier the severity of it I would have been in front of council much sooner um but I seriously didn't know until two weeks ago literally two weeks ago and it sounds amazing that everyone would be like how do you not know that well I I would know a general number but I don't know an exact number I don't know the severity until all of the audit stuff has been completed with a cruel basis accounting so that takes at least two months for me to do so why why did it take that audit I mean what what got triggered I I'm not I'm I'm not understanding how that works so the audit what do you mean well I'm not understanding how we don't know until the audit happened yeah so I would know on the cash basis that we may be over budget in XYZ item align them with Marty's budget or Gary's budget or whoever's budget that we're dealing with um overall on a cash basis but after the year ends as in 1231 now it's 1:1 now it's technically the New Year y um we're still paying invoices from November December of the previous year and those need to be booked back but they don't get booked back manually I or I have to manually move them backwards because they're technically for 2023 expenses but we're paying them in 24 so for a cash basis it's all right in 24 and it would never show up in 23 but because we have an audit we have to book everything backwards and then vice versa we'll pay for things in 23 that are actually for 24 memberships subscriptions um Assessment Services things of those nature or removing expenses from 23 to 24 because it's actually for 24 even though we paid it in 24 but when you get invoiced on something isn't that when you at least show the liability and the no doesn't go like for our system it only goes in as of the date that we pay it so I have to manually pull all of the invoices and then put them in a list and then make one what we call journal entries I have to make a journal entry back to the end of the year and then reverse that journal entry so that the expenses are now in 23 and not 24 and it's really hard this is how large corporations were too all for like for a non-ac accountant it's extremely hard to explain to you but or explain but without knowing credits and debits it's like uh yeah like when I to General Mill there's a big push of like please get please reach out to all your suppliers and tell them to submit all of their invoices by this date inves yep so that way we can get them submitt on this year and then if one does come in late they have to then remove that back into the previous year's reporting and come out of that budget what makes you decide to put it in the previous year so if you received it or the invoice date as the previous year we have to do that right so they might so it is an that's what I was getting at so the invoice it's not the date they receive the invoice it's the date on the invoice invo just we could do work in June and not get the invoice till January of next year and we have to put that back to 23 which is somewhat good for us cuz we got to sit on that money and get the interest for 6 months in that example but then we have to move it back and then you get into this predicament and then I get into this predicament where we move back and you can use for example stantech is a big one that I don't want to pick on stantech but there are $100,000 a month to have their services here well I don't get that invoice until January or February so now I have to move back $100,000 and I know that this year we had even more cuz it was we build twice or something November didn't get po to us till janary so was $100,000 there and then we had $200,000 with December came in and then second half of December came in later it was a bigger mess so if I I would I can send you out stuff as a cash basis but the problem is the numbers change after that but you you you do have an idea I have a general idea yeah I could have told you that we're probably going to be over budgeted and mostly because what I mean is pending so even if you didn't get an invoice you you know you have you're spending money for something yep at at some point it's just yeah I I may not know but the partment would know cuz I mean I'm not monitoring everything that they're doing I mean the cash balance in the pending we make use of cruls for that kind of stuff and I I guess I don't know why you know if we know we've got expenses I mean um you just use one for for stanch we know we're going to pay him right we know we're going to have a bill yep and so you don't have to wait until you actually see it to anticipate that in your financial forecasting I understand that you can't get an exact number and till you know they you got the bill and you can enter it in with the exact amount but you know anticipating those expenses and revenues for that matter I mean we only get tax revenue twice a year and yes you know I know that's a bit of a of guess work as well yeah we were you can you can anticipate that and if it turns out to be wrong then you you know you reverse that acrel and put in the real number and you know now we have to take a look at what did we do to ourselves yeah so we don't preut things into the budget to your point um and forecast them to say you're going to be this amount of money and I'll use the stantic one as an examples because I don't know what they're working on for projects and so if they're working on a ton of projects we might not have any anything go to the general fund at all but Jason's retainer time which is like $3,600 I'm budgeting roughly 10,000 or so per month to go into that general fund cost and if they're working on a ton of projects they don't have any time to do any whatever call General things that would be okay I send Jason an email it says hey can you look at this for a quick second or can you work on that for quick second they'll build that to what our call our general fund or just it's not a project it's just we're looking at a possible project or we're possibly looking at doing this or um these are just oneoff things that come up or one of the cilen asks a question about can we do something down here and then that just B both the general but if they're working on projects they don't have time to do those things so I could for sure put a number in there and that's what I did for some of them but not all of them CU I don't know where their times at I think something like that you know for and I know that's you know that's not final accounting of anything but it it gives us a way to have some kind of a pulse check on I would agree you are we performing where we expected to or you know did we just take a big hit on something and that's and well and look at it I mean I don't know we used to do it monthly we put acrs in and take them out every month you know based on actuals and based on anticipating on average how much money like if you look at last year out of the general fund how much money came out a month ohy you could look right let me let's just let's just say it was 100 Grand just a just a number picking a Rand number right more than that I say I'm just picking a Rand number 100 how many when you do the acrs so when you do the how many months worth do you end up average moving back it typically it's at least one month if not two months so what I'm saying is when you look at the budget you can always assume we're two months behind so if you look at what the average monthly budget is you should just add two months to that and that's where we're probably actually you're close yeah that will get that will get you adjusted close it be it would be close that would be a very easy way it's ballpark it's back than appk but I think that's what we're asking for we're not asking for anything super detailed and I don't want you to spend 30 hours figuring it out so if you just figure out what the average monthly is that we're tracking to this year and then add two months of that and then as that may change every quarter CU you've got more months of averages but just do that add it in that will give us an idea where we're really at because if we're about a month and a half behind on Billings which makes sense with a 30-day processing and blah blah blah BL that seems reasonable y from my knowledge of invoicing so um I think that would that would correct me if I'm wrong I'm speaking for a lot of people up here but that would make us happy and get us what we're looking for directionally then be more comfortable with where we're at so get the updates take away the the bulk of the P yeah I mean I will say that the amount of time that I did monitoring this expenses over the past 3 years has been minimal yeah I spent my time doing other things and been monitoring the dep heads but there might be something that I might have to focus still this is delegation that should go down um and it probably hasn't been very tight obviously the other deal is kind of a team deal too I mean Marty just made the comment that he kind of keeps track of where he is monthly so he kind of knows he knew in November that he was over budget yep I mean I mean we are where we are we got to deal with it I it yeah and and I know that Marty's come to me and said hey I'm going to be over budget this year and I'm like I I don't know what to change it after it's already happened you know like when you have expenses and they're over the only thing that you could stop spending other money I I was going to say that's what we did we didn't we didn't do all the projects we wanted to do last year as much as we could well the problem is when you have all these things come in and then all of a sudden it's like oh now I'm over budget how do I stop things that I've already appr and that's where we're at though that's where we're at like the skitter we just bought wasn't in the budget for 24 but he just got it you guys are too nice where May yep maybe you got to do without that at some point I'm I'm not saying that you didn't need it I trust me however I mean it's just we just need the I think not just we everyone in this room needs the information when there's still time to make a decision to make an end result change if it's always in hindsight and there's no time and we're just kind of stuck with it is what it is and I hate that statement beyond belief so yeah I think I think you've got some good ideas from us kind of how we can get ahead of this and your quarterly updates for us on on where we're at that sounds like there's some changes being made monly for the teams to be more on top of it um so I think we're making steps in the right direction which I think is good I think we'll have to continue to monitor it and see what works and what doesn't work and I think it's on us to then provide feedback at the next quarterly update of it should be like us slide very simple very straightforward of like this works this is good we get it and we'll ask a bunch of questions or we need more information no that's my opinion you guys tell me yours a question I would have fortunately we have a temp fund to take this from if that temp fund wasn't there then what would be the procedure for this so we would take it out of the Capital Equipment funds first so that would mean that we'd have to remove it from future Capital Equipment purchases and which would be the skid steer and the excavator and stuff okay hence why those items were before ours because we didn't have to worry about that but if that if that would have been the case then I would have went to Marty and said hey you're GNA have to wait for another year hate to tell you but you're gonna have to wait you know I gota have 180 Grand in order to move the money or the repair on some pickup is going to wait till December or January yep I know and we did that once with the fire truck so we talked Carrie had that when he said said you got to wait I don't care what you got to do don't don't repair if it doesn't need to be repaired we won't repair it if we don't have to I think that's what companies generally do when they put that freeze on that's that's effectively we're not making those costs go away we're just right planning them yeah and we had that and Gary can Gary and I can talk about yeah we I mean it was 20 grand we put off we said okay don't spend it and just wait cuz it would have been even $220,000 worse which would have maybe well this is this is good enough and I'm I'm okay with not having to do this again so it would be this is a big ugly number yes and is it is it a possibility that some of this money can get put back yeah down the road yep oh yeah yeah so the idea this year would be to try to come in under budget y obviously did we have any departments come in under what H did we have anybody come in under police isn't on police uh no police came in 30 grand over and 28 of that is repairs and maintenance so um although I think he was within $400 of his payroll budget which is amazing um it's a good job Paul uh I think the one departments that were were activity center and that was because we didn't have somebody there you go there Department nobody spend money didn't spend any money spend any money and then building overed to begin building inspections was 80 grand over or under um Building Inspections and that's related to the fact we didn't have building so okay those are related so well this is it is what it is almost I think the was all job all right I'll make a motion that we got to move the money second is that what we're doing here yeah so I just need an approval motion a second for approval of the resolution what I will do spend 1.2 writing that down it's already been spent you just moving it right it's already been spent we're just fixing for Dave anywhere and we just I believe in a work session we just asked uh Council or we just asked staff how they were going to spend money give us more money go ahead I got some anyway questions too but well the one thing we have to have to correct in the resolution is it says connection fees for the first 75 homes in 2019 oh oops I forgot that again you CAU of me last or two with that and I didn't correct it details I was trying to get Dome I'll fix that I'll fix it right away so next year it'll say 24 it only be a year off I know ex yeah and I guess I got my question answered around the 40% piece um where are we at today say that again for this year where are we at today yeah um so almost every Department that I sent to for Marty Gary and Paul were under budget so far this year um they were at 20% of their budget and I expect them to be at over 25 being we're the middle of April does that include a month and a half of that would include that would not include a month of acrs so if you added a month of acrs in there you would add you add something these things come in lumps too so it's probably going to be hard to advertise across we do not budget based on when the expenses happen we budget equally every single month yeah so if we have big expenses like gas they're heavy in the beginning of the year and they're heavy at the end of the year so I expect to have a large balance at the end of the year before we move into this season is is it labor intensive to micromanage that it is extremely micro extremely ex labor take the budget and the the problem with that though is is it doesn't tell you a lot Excel can do that though really easy if you'd have the budget you know what percent of funds hit what month you could just easily do a percentage by month by problem is they don't hit by they don't hit every single month evenly across every single year so i' have to go back like 3 years to figure out or even by quarter you could look back by quarter and see SMY stuff come in heavy quarter one less quarter I can anticipate those things just on that's what you're getting that right a little you know large chunks like um you know as we get more fluent with our staffing time and being able to adjust more things um we're able to do more of that stuff those kind of things I mean right now if you got a B big purchase halfway through the year your budget's going to look good till halfway through the year and then suddenly you're underwater typically we don't do the big purchase items as in um you the onetime purchases those all come out of the Capital Equipment funds and that's the reason for that is so that they don't have those onetime big things that's true yeah but you can look back um historical you know what what's our spending look like compared to 23 or 22 that is correct I'm surprised fuels are higher this year because you hardly did any plowing at all no no no not this year we should be good this year no this year we're good 23 is the problem okay for 23 okay last one now all right well I got nothing else anybody else have any comments or there are plans in place to not have this happen again I prefer not to be here doing the same thing next year so good okay got a motion second all those in favor say hi hi right all those oppos say no motion carries 5 zip okay and now I the statement to read statement to read you guys can all right this meeting is being now we have a closed session uh this meeting is being closed pursuant to Minnesota statute section 13 d05 subdivision 3A which allows city council to meet in close session to evaluate the performance of an individual who subject to its subject to its Authority the individual being evaluated as City administrator act out pursuant to the same statute section the person who is being did you do this on purpose no the person who is being evaluated May request that the meeting remain open Zach has not made that request so this meeting is not open to the public also pursuant to Minnesota statute section 13 d05 subdivision 1d this meeting is being electronically recorded the recording will be preserved for 3 years after today at the next open City C meeting we will provide a summary of our conclusions regarding Zach evaluation you close Okay so I'm going to go ahead and um stop the zoom we're not going to reopen the zoom just to close the meeting at the end but we will have to come back live to close the meeting and I forget we have to vote to go into close session right I believe so yes all right I need a motion in a second I'll make a motion we go into close session second any discussion formality well there a favor say I I I those oppos Say No 5 Z and it seems as we have to vote on that since it's kind of up to you we just got to double check with Chris to make sure e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e there are no objections we will adjourn the Clos meeting there none so we're Jour and now close the regular meeting and we're rejourn all right thank you everyone very much e e