Yeah. Here you go. All right, I will call order the Tuesday, February 10th regular meeting of the Dayton City Council. Stand for the pledge. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> All right. I need a motion, a second for the agenda. I'll make a motion. I'll >> second. >> Any discussion about changes? >> Yes. If we would, if anybody else would like to, there's some information to share on a band shell at Stevens Park. >> Uh, okay. We can add that after G H. Any other changes? >> All right. All those in favor say I. >> I. I. >> All those opposed say no. >> Carries. Five to zero. On to consent. Any motion in a second? >> Motion. >> I'll second. Any discussion? >> I had a couple of questions. >> Okay, go ahead. >> On uh item B, the capital assets policy on on page eight of that, it it talks about group asset purchases. >> Yes. >> The value of $150,000 or greater. So that's if you're like replacing all the computers in the office and it's $100,000 or something like that. >> Correct. Yeah. That's a new Gazsby standard that came out that we have to so historically for Gazby standards and that's the governmental um accounting standards board is that you would not classify the entire group assets. So let's say you bought a bunch of computers or SCBAs for the fire department things you buy in bulk you would not classify those as capital assets. Um so because of the individual value so if you ever got rid of one of them you don't have to dispose of the whole asset. Well Gatsby decided that no we should probably include those now because you're spending a lot of money on those as government entities. we should we should include those as capital assets. >> And so now it's a challenge of us to figure out when does 51% of those assets go away so that we can then dispose of that asset before where it was not included before. So it's a change of the Gatsby standards. I think it's Gazsby 96 if I'm not mistaken or 98, one of the two, but I cannot remember the standards off. >> That's going to be kind of a mess to track. >> It is a giant mess. I don't know how the government accounting standards board thinks that people are going to track that stuff, but apparently >> we're going to track it now. So, >> they probably don't want anybody to track it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, that's why there's a note on the mount in there just because it's now a new asset and it needs to be classified that we've historically never had. >> Fun. Um, okay. It gets more fun. On page 11 talks about examples of items to be capitalized as land improvements are and then it talks about the removal, relocation, reconstruction of property. Are we um such as power, telephone, railroad lines, etc. So you capture the value of that or I mean how do you track assets that no longer exist? >> Um it goes into the value of the assets that you're typically redoing. So those would be like for example um some of them would be like a street relocation or something. So if we're adding a new street somewhere and we have to remove a telephone pole, they want that cost to move the telephone pole to be added into the cost of the street that we're adding. >> So you're capitalizing the project cost. >> Yes, it's the project cost. It wouldn't be necessarily specifically on oneoff items, but it would be specifically related to land improvements like I use streets as the example or some sort of park improvement or something like that. If you have to move a telephone pole or electrical lines underneath the ground, then those need to be captured as the cost as the project costs. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. Well, I tried to use other communities around us as best I could to see all the options because I don't want to redo this thing if we don't have to. So, I did include things that we probably won't even touch for years just because if we have them in another community that we may have them eventually here. So when we have um use your other example of you get to 51% of whatever it is is is gone away and the other 49% um you have to write down >> off of the off the book value of their capital assets. So does that um cost then of writing that down? So you're you're presumably doing this because you're replacing all of this stuff >> most of the time. >> So there'll be a new asset there. >> Does that um >> early write down cost because the asset wasn't fully depreciated at that point. Do you have to carry that into the cost of the new asset? >> Um so that would be written off as a loss. Uh technically we would probably not do that. Hopefully we're not going to we're not doing that before the useful life of the product. But if we are then that would be dedicated as a loss on the um net income sheet and then would be shown as a as a loss on fixed assets or loss on capital assets um on the financial statements would be the governmentwide financial statements. So it would be a separate line item not incorporated into the new cost of the um item. It's basically just a loss for our book purposes. It would not be very big because if you're at let's say it's a 10 year useful life and we dispose of 51% of them at year nine we're talking about $15,000 worth of you know 10 years at 150 grand is >> $15,000 a year. So not talking about a huge loss in quotes but >> yeah in that example I think it could be bigger if it was larger assets that still had useful life. Well, that's interesting to me because my experience when we requested capital for a project, if we were placing things that had not reached their the end of their useful life, we had to include that >> write down value in the capital request. >> Not that I'm aware of, at least in the governmentwide items, but >> well, I guess healthcare uses a different set of generally confusing accounting principles. >> Perfect. >> We can be equally confused. It's going to be great. >> Differently confused. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. There we go. differently confused. >> All right, thanks for clearing that up. >> Nope. Yep. Great questions. Thank you. >> Anything else, Steph? >> Nothing else, Dave? >> Nope. >> Anybody else have anything? >> Okay, we have a motion to second. All those in favor say I. >> I. I. >> All those opposed say no. >> Consent carries five to zero. Open forum limited to three minutes for non-aggenda items. State your name and address. No council action will be taken. items be referred back to staff. Is anybody here for open form? Come on forward. >> Yeah. Name and address and then uh when you get some time, fill out one of those sheets. And >> I know I need a new pen. This pen doesn't Oh, there's one here. Uh my name is uh Lissa Sennis. I live at 11 1980. Um I just want to thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight. I want to start by saying something that is not easy for me to say. I have long had a loyalty to law enforcement and I believe in public service in the rule law and in the idea that those entrusted with authority are meant to protect our communities. That loyalty, however, is wavering and that is deeply disappointing to me. I'm here because many people in our community, people that cannot be here tonight out of fear, are increasingly um concerned about ICE activity in our city and what feels like a lack of accountability, oversight, and clear enforcement standards. When those actions intersect with local law enforcement, my intention tonight is not to attack police officers or to widen the already large divide between law enforcement and the community. It is to name what is happening because ignoring it makes the divide worse. There have been deeply troubling incidents in the community that everyone members have witnessed and myself included, including stopping a bus driver due to the color of the drivers and asking the students where what country they were born in illegally stopping those buses bus vans by the way or uh pulling a 19-year-old over for impeding. So so supposedly impeding while he was driving through his neighborhood pulling a for a gun on a 14-year-old. These are just a few of the things that happened. Um, including late night operations, disturbing the peace, but being told by law enforcement that that's okay, that that's their job, um, that they can do that. There's ongoing harassment of this vulnerable community. These actions do not reflect lawful, professional, or restrained enforcement. And when they occur without visible consequences, without public explanation, and without accountability, they don't just harm the people that directly are involved. They erode the trust of the entire community. Trust is the foundation of public safety. And when the people don't want to enforce what is what that is or or understand whose authority or what limits, fear takes over. People stop calling for help. They stop cooperating with investigation. That makes everything everyone less safe, including the officers who rely on community cooperate to do their jobs effectively. If our governing bodies are not complying with laws, why should I or our community? I want to be clear. Accountability is not an anti-law enforcement. Accountability is a pro community and pro professionalism. Clear boundaries, transparent policies, and real oversight protect residents and our officers. They prevent abuse of power and protect the integrity of those who serve honorably. If we truly want to repair the relationship between law enforcement and the community, we cannot look away from the conduct that appears unlawful or unethical. We need honest acknowledgement, clear policies, defining roles of the local law enforcement in relation to ICE, and real mechanisms for review when boundaries are crossed. My loyalty to law enforcement is wavering, not because I want chaos, but because I want better. I'm asking this council to take leadership in restoring trust through transparency, oversight, and accountability. Not with words alone, but with actions and the the community can see and believe. We all want safe neighborhoods. We all want officers who are respected and supported and we all deserve to live without fear of arbitrary or abusive enforcement. These goals are not in conflict, but they require courage and leadership to uphold. This is not a left versus right. This is a right versus wrong. And the people that have been terrorized, that can't leave their homes, that are being evicted because they can't go to work, live in this constant fear. Day after day after day, law enforcement comes and says, "Last night, they were actually very, very nice and they offered to extra patrol." But these people in this community are so vulnerable. If you've driven through the Dayton trailer park, you can see that they're not living these highrise lives that are and they're not criminals. They want to go to work. They want their students to go to school safely without being stopped to ask what country they were born in. We are all white. There's not one brown person in this in this room. We don't understand what they are going through. But I am asking, begging because what is happening to this community is going to get worse and they will not trust law enforcement or the people that they are supposed to be able to go to for help. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else? Come on out. That's That's kind of a a tough act to follow. Thank you, Alyssa, for bringing that to us. Um, I don't disagree with anything she just said and I'm not going to repeat it all because I don't think we need to. That >> name and address, please. Sorry for the >> I can forget who I am. >> No, not because >> Keith Grover, 113th in Fernbrook. >> Thank you. >> Um, brief thing that I wanted to ask tonight just because maybe I should know the answer, but I guess I don't. when things are brought up in open forum and they're issues that I know you're not going to act on any of those immediately, do those get assigned to staff to follow up on? >> Yep. So, a couple of weeks ago when um on phone when it was brought up that there were um appear to be multiple places that were operating businesses or what you might call homebased businesses and there were several locations given. My question is, do those get followed up on on then we go look at those locations or we do we need some kind of a formal complaint in addition to what was brought up in open form. I guess that's my question. >> John, do you want to answer that one or you want me to? >> Uh well, yeah, you just really summarize. So, generally speaking, it depends on the context of what what the comment is, you know, if it's general or if it's specific. So, um, based on the comments that, um, I think it was from Marsha that mentioned >> couple weeks ago. Yeah. >> Um, some of those we know of and some we have not looked into, but we, you know, if uh, like for someone that wants to file a complaint about a specific property, we are looking for like a formal complaint rather than just that open form. >> So, so we we followed up on some of them based on the context that was given and some of them we have not. >> Yeah. So some of the like we we want to have more information that's probably not appropriate during open for like any other complaint you got to file a complaint to to get specifics. >> Uh anybody online? >> There was one person online that did have their hand raised and then they put it down. If you are online, would you like to speak at open forum? Please use the raise your hand function. They are not re raising their hand. >> Okay, we will move on to staff consultant and council updates. Sir, >> good evening, mayor, members of council. I have a few updates for you tonight. Reminder that anyone watching and the council as well that city offices are closed next Monday the 16th in observance of President's Day. Um, one question for the council. Does the next meeting or March 10th work better for everyone to begin a work session early on goals, objectives, strategic plan conversation before the council meeting? I'm thinking probably five if I can, but it's either the 24th or the 10th of March. And I guess we don't have to do it that soon, but I'd like to get moving on your guys' goals and objectives if we have any. >> Either one works for me. >> Did I remember to email you my objectives? I don't think I did. Dang it. Okay, >> I'll add it to another list. >> Okay, I don't care which one for the council. You guys got to give me direction. 24th or 10th? >> 10th. >> That's a month. Okay. Okay. And one last one is just let you guys know again that there's a meeting tomorrow with legislators regarding identifying funding for the tier one and tier 2 as studies. I will most certainly supply out the meeting video that is going to go out um to the council afterwards. So everyone can watch and be happy to answer any questions that you may have related to it. Um we don't have enough room in the council chambers for everybody to be invited. Otherwise, I would invite everyone to be here um from all the other communities. Uh so we will have just the mayors here and then the legislators legislators um from both the federal side and the state side. So trying to get as many funding opportunities as we can to get that tier one and tier 2 ES study funded as best as possible. So >> if it's not funded are we moving forward with it or not? Okay. >> If if there is no funding that comes through no community is anting up any dollars to do it. >> So if there's no funding done at the state level >> it ain't happening. So, >> okay, that was my understanding, but I wanted to confirm that that >> great question. And yes, that is correct. It is not going forward funding >> like five million. >> We are requesting $5 million and that should cover both tier one and tier 2 EIS studies. Rough timeline for that is probably if we get both of the funings, which I would be very surprised we get, uh, it's probably a fiveyear process for both of those just for the studies and and information. So, roughly two to two and a half years each by the time we get through all of the governmental bodies that they have to go through. Can that bridge get built without the study? >> No. >> Okay. So, anyone who's on our who who likes to talk to me in other spaces about how desperately we need this bridge but then are unwilling to pony up any money for any aspect of it. >> I can point them back to this >> needs to be done before has to be done. So, it's like I said, it's a five-year process just to go through the studies and >> that's the last I heard. Okay. >> And that's if there's no hiccups or confusions or anything else. So, that's all I got. Thank you. Morning, you >> mayor and council. I have a couple of items here ranging from the not so good to hopefully um entertaining. >> That doesn't sound good. >> Um the wellhead treatment plant um the electrical is being completed. The control panel for the skater uh uh was delayed for uh a few days getting that in. So it's in place now um with uh pushing to get that um up and running. uh controls and programming need to be completed. Um final startup and training has been delayed a couple of weeks um until uh be online on March the 12th. Now uh that is due to Kar uh who built the pressure vessels needing to come out and inspect every valve, every um switch, every part of those things um before they'll warranty that item. And they have a conflict with their staff. the staff will be there for three four days um to go through everything. So that's where the delay is. Um but I have got a firm date of March 12th for it to be online. >> That was the bad news. >> Um >> Oh, >> that's not that bad. >> That's good bad news. That's pretty >> I'll take that back. >> You're going to see we missed the pipe and we're out of here. >> Yeah. Um, so parks, uh, water trails, es LC Stevens Park, um, the boat launch there. We got the bids in last Friday. There were eight competitive bids. Uh, they were all under engineers estimate. Um, we're currently working through the bid documents to see which is the true um, low bid. Uh, there were six options um, six alternates in the bid. So, you know, find out which way those play out. We take all of the alternates or some of them. And so that's a little bit of a process, but I will have that back in front of you um on the 24th um uh for awarding the bid. And then the last thing um the ice rinks are up and running. They'll probably be out of the picture by the end of this week with the coming up. Um but we did manage to secure a Zamboni for um public works. Um, it was a a very good find. Uh, we're very fortunate that this dropped in our laps. Um, so this is a used one from OIO School District. And I'd like you to guess the price that we got this for. >> You go right down the line for Scott. I can write down the line. >> I'm going to say 5,000. >> 500. I want to do prices right rules here. >> Prices, right? Close this without going over it. >> Free. >> I say I want it to be free. >> You haul it away. No. >> I think you would have gotten a good deal at 20,000. >> Do we have to keep the advertising? >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. We're going to put your picture on the side. >> I want it to be free, but I don't know how much was it. >> We paid $1,000 for it. >> Oh, not bad. That's awesome. >> I have no point of reference. you won. >> They're going, "Oh, I did see racis." >> Yeah. So, yeah, we were fortunate. Um, it was originally advertised for nearly 10,000. Um, but we got to them, saw it. Um, they were tired of having it in the shop and they've had multiple car tire kickers around and said, "We need the space in the shop for the new piece of equipment that we got. Um, we'll give it to you because you're a neighboring community for a,000 bucks." So, >> and now you're going to tell me it needs 15,000. I'm trying to take a pause here. >> Well done. >> Hopefully somebody turned the key right up and said it, chief. >> Good evening, mayor, members of council. Uh we're just wrapping up interviews. We have one more tomorrow and uh we'll start some background checks and agility tests here coming up in the next couple weeks. >> Jade, >> evening, Mr. Mayor, members of the council. Um officers are going through their annual defensive tactics certifications today and tomorrow. Um last week we held a joint crisis negotiation training with um neighboring agencies for line officers know what to do. Um when we have a situation we have to have a negotiator negotiating. Um so that was last week two days. Um and then hunter safety we have uh two of our officers certified in training hunter safety to our residents. um you got to be 11 years old or older and they're starting their first class Tuesday, April 21st at 6 p.m. And I believe it's Tuesday and Thursday for 3 weeks and then a field day um in early May. So we have information on our website or you can call our office to uh register or get more information >> and that satisfies the states hunter safety course. >> Correct. Yeah. >> Okay, cool. Jason Scott, >> I'm good. >> Sarah, >> um I was at the League of Minnesota Cities uh leadership training last Friday and Saturday and one of the things that came up and of course left my actual name of the grant on my notebook at home. Um but there the state auditor's office has a grant for cities that do surveys. Apparently only about a third of cities know about this grant and use it. So, I wasn't sure if we were one of the third. Okay. Excellent. So, there's a grant from the state auditor's office. Um, I did write down the actual name of it. Like I said, I it's in the other notebook. Haven't succeeded yet in my goal for the year of one notebook per thing, but that's okay. Um, so I will email that to you if I forget. Um, but otherwise, I went. It was I think last year was better. Um, but it was still valuable. It was nice to talk to other people, other leaders across the state and hear what people are doing. Um, and that's it. >> I have nothing. >> Um, in terms of followup, are we still looking into some of the um the claims that were made on the as far as the flock cameras and how that company is uh securing data. That seemed to be the gist of the the petition that came in last week. Mr. Mayor, members of the council, um I'm involved in a webinar tomorrow with Flack. Um and if you guys want to put it on the agenda, um I can have a Flack representative um being virtual um join the meeting and give you any updates that you guys have for flack questions themselves. >> I think that could be worthwhile. >> I agree. >> Okay. Okay. >> I think we at least want to look into it a little deeper. >> Yeah. I want to make sure that we, you know, that we are doing something with it. People spent the time to put together a petition and sign it. Want to make sure that, you know, what is and what isn't correct about it? And, you know, are we going to take any action? So, I think that's a good next step. Thank you. >> Anything else? >> Stephanie, >> I have a couple, so apologies ahead of time. Um I guess I'll start in the same vein as what um David just said. I do have a question and then after Keith brought it up about open forum. So, there's been a couple of things that maybe that's on us as the council and the mayor to have like a followup on or like, hey, somebody said this, like we need to look into it or we'd like to because if we're basing what we talk about on head nods and oh yeah, you didn't seem interested like that um I guess maybe isn't enough for me. And so if people are taking the time to come and talk, like we should be taking those things seriously and following up on them, even if it is a there's another process of making a formal complaint. Like that's fine with me if we need to do that. But people don't know they need to do that unless they know they need to do that. Um otherwise, why do we have an open form in the first place? If it's just people get to have their two minutes on to like say what they need to and then we never do anything about it, like that's not the purpose in my mind. So, I don't know what that looks like, but I also would like to follow up on the flat canvas because that was one of the ones that I was like, "Well, yeah, we talked about it, but we never circle back or we never circled back." So, maybe just maybe that's more on us to make sure that we're closing that loop back again. Um, that's the first thing. The second thing is um there was a vintage snowmobile event that happened at Deans and it had a really great turnout and I think that it got me thinking about these new developments and there are a lot of snowmobile trails that we have and connections here in Dayton and we don't really talk about them. And so, you know, thinking about um the Tom's new neighborhood right by uh Sundance, there is a snowmobile trail that comes through there that will be affected by that, um new neighborhood going in, that development going in. And so, I guess for me, um just maybe a little red flag of there are people clearly based on the turnout of the event and you know, we were there too. Um I know David, I think you were there as well somewhere in the crowd. Um, but just like something to think about when these neighborhoods are coming in of, you know, we play outside, right? Like, but we play outside at all seasons. And so, just something I mean, maybe just to put it on our radar that if a development is coming through and we know that it's going to affect a connection or the ability to connect to the park or what have you, um, that maybe there's some more collaboration there with um, there's like an snowmobile association. I'm blanking on what the name is, but working with them because that connection to Sundance is cut off. And I know they used to go down the power lines there >> and so just thinking like that was a I don't know how long ago was that that was a long time ago that I was there and it didn't come down. Um >> but anyway I'm just something that was flagged for me of like oh yeah that neighborhood is going in and how is that going to affect our ability to use >> you know they used to come whenever we had a development um and they had a trail in it. they would come and and at least remind us to see if we can >> find a way Yeah. >> to get a a path from from the entry point to the exit point. Um >> I know >> haven't been in for a while though. >> Well, and I know that John Kudson was on the parks and he would bring it up quite a bit. Um so I know him and I actually had talked about that um that neighborhood going in. I'm like, "Oh yeah, the trail." He's like, "Yeah, the trail goes through there." And that's kind of where it had sparked. And then with the vintage snowmobile event, um again thinking of how do we make sure that um we don't lose that piece. I think it's a you know to a lot of people who like snowmobiles or to ride like it's a big deal to have those connections and I don't want to lose them. >> So that was something I >> I don't remember what the Elm Creek Snow Cruisers. >> Is that the one? There's another bigger association. >> Northwest Trails Association. >> That's the I could not think of the name. I guess just thinking like into the future as we're looking at these developments like I don't want to lose those connections because it clearly um there's a lot more people that use them than I think that we really realize and you go to one of these events and you're like oh my gosh or you know we've my family has used them. So >> I guess something to think about and I don't know how we connect with them but just making sure if we know it's going to affect a trail that we do something about it. Okay. >> Um, just to let you know, we do speak with them regularly, on developments as well as projects. I I've talked to him as recently as yesterday regarding the sewer extension on 113. So, >> well, that's amazing. >> They're great at keeping in contact with us and then we provide updates as we can. >> Okay. Yeah. I I just hadn't heard anything, so I was like, we shouldn't let this fall off. So, I appreciate that and thank you for keeping that connection going because it's important. >> Um, >> and Mr. Mayor, members of the council with Flack, just to let you know, we do have a state law for um automatic license plate readers. Um we have to have a specific policy as a department in place. Um and also we have to have a release um of information form that we have each agency sends to each other um to get information from one another. Um, so we have behind the scenes deals with flack um to to protect Minnesota. Um, I think the big issue is uh what people are thinking FLAC is releasing. So that's why in the future meeting we'll have a representative from Flack. >> Yeah. Can Oh, sorry. >> Sure. I was just going to add in that meeting it would be really helpful for us to know like have we done any data releases to any other agencies? I mean it would just be nice to know that like is this a frequent thing? Is this just local? Have we you know like I don't again we don't know a ton about it but just making sure that maybe we have some metrics there. >> Anybody that can use um or see the data from Dayton is on our transparency page. Um, we have an agreement that shows every city that we've allowed access to. They have to have a reason to access our information. They they just can't willy-nilly access it. So, they have to have a specific investigative reason to access it. So, >> that's helpful. >> Thank you. Um, believe it or not, I'm not done. I had talked to Zach um this week about an AI policy. Um because I know that our staff is using AI and so >> everybody in their mother is using it. >> Exactly. And so I think it's just important that we have some sort of guide rails there of what information you should or shouldn't be putting in. Like if you're sending an email to somebody you and like using chat GPT to help you or whatever AI tool you're using that you shouldn't be putting like their name or their practices. >> Exactly. and just making sure that we have some sort of guide rails out there because um once it's out there, it's out there and you cannot pull it back in. >> So, we don't have one and I know Zach said there are >> what >> working on. >> We're working on we have one like no one >> that other communities are looking at that. It doesn't have to be anything extensive because I don't know that we're putting like tons of like data in there, but just making sure that we have some sort of guide rails. this. Yeah, this came this that came up at my last compass work session with a bunch of city administrators that AI is coming very very popular. So, um have noted on my thing, but I will make sure that's uh put to the top of the list to get that taken care of right away. So, thank you. >> And maybe also a reminder that AI makes things up. >> Oh, yes. Hallucinates. >> Yeah, I love how they call it hallucinate. It lies. It makes things up. It literally makes laws up because it doesn't know anything. It's not actually intelligent. It just spits out what it thinks you want to hear. And a shocking number of people don't seem to realize that. My niece is um uh works in a law office and one of her co-workers used it to produce some form for her for a lawyer and the lawyer just took it realizing that all of the laws it literally made up laws for this thing and no one bothered to stop and reference it and it went all the way to court before someone finally noticed it. Um so like it is not actually intelligent. It mimics human language. That's what it does. it's a mimic. Um, so I think somewhere in that policy, we should also have some training on it. Like people need to understand what AI is and is not capable of. Um, and that anytime you're referencing anything like a law in particular or ordinances or things like that that it does in fact just to make things up. Um, as long as it sounds good, it thinks it has done its job. So, I would also add that to the policy is if you're going to use it, there should be a certain amount of not extensive training, but at least whether it's a halfhour workshop of like this is an appropriate use of AI, this is an inappropriate use of an AI. It also sucks at math. So, as a math teacher, go ahead and use it because it does a terrible job and it has broken a perfectly acceptable calculator. Do we have like co-pilot or like Google jump? Do you have anything that's available readily to our staff or are we googling chat GPT and going there? I just >> customer headers. We do have copilot because it just comes on Microsoft products. So automat comes on all of our computers right away. So I think we >> Yeah, we're not allowed to use it. >> Um and I'm not saying people I've never used it myself. So I don't even know honestly what that is. But um yeah, I would say that people just would use the what they like to do. I again I when I when we tent this on the phone I think I've used it five times in my life and it's not something that I reference often most time it's more Google than anything else of finding a source but um I think it's an important product that we need to ad uh adjust to as a as a government entity and know where it is the limits and what the limits are and then what we should be putting in there or not. I think that was the main thing from my administrator group was you shouldn't be putting XYZ item in there and we talked about those items you should be putting in there names people whatever because it's just a bad giant database of storage so that somebody else referencing something might get that kick back in an answer and you don't want that out there in the world so >> but you know search on Binger Google is the same problem >> so you don't want to be putting information in there that's covered protected >> I guess my like the analogy that I use and I think I that have used it in our phone call is that if you wouldn't print it in the Dayton communicator and send it out to every person in Dayton, you probably shouldn't be putting it in AI. So, like that's kind of like the the bottom. I'm just trying to make sure that we have some sort of guide rails and we're not sending people out willy-nilly because if something did happen, um we don't have a policy. We don't have any sort of guidelines and you're kind of out there in the world figuring it out as you go. >> Yep. >> Um I don't think it hurts. >> No, not at all. You could disagree. I just I don't think it hurts. >> I'm just worried that'll be a 200page policy because we use AI all over the place. >> Well, I sit on five teams at work. So, like I get it. Like, and that is not an exaggeration. It's fine. >> I routinely use it to write software. So, >> okay. >> Anything else? >> No. >> Okay, >> that's it. Uh we'll move on to council business item E mayor and council. Um I did uh put a pretty substantial uh staff report together to try and get some background information in there um and why this is such a um an important issue for me. I want to try and get this um resolved um as to the way forward here. We do have some projects coming up. Um some signage um at the entryways in Dayton that need to be replaced. Um there's a sign going in at um LC Stevens that I need to uh make sure that we get the right thing in there. And also we got some water towers coming up and this one will need repaint in here sometime soon. So those are all considerations for this. Um the original um project for you know for the branding was a year-long exercise. Um was a lot of meetings, a lot of people involved um a lot of iterations. Um I think I pulled a few more details together just of the process that we went through to get to that design. all the preliminary designs that we went through. I think there was something like 18 preliminary designs and then they were revi uh refined um through uh meetings with uh the committee that was set up and through input from surveys from through the community. Um so these these are some of the areas that it got this is a phase two and so there's a lot of different designs going on there. Um, and a lot of times these were combined into, you know, some of this stuff was taken and combined into one one thing. >> Where did they come from? The original ones. >> The original ones, they came from uh the the company that we um company. >> So that the the original ones um these original renderings were all from Josh um who was with the company that we hired. Um so this was his original scratches. Um and these were presented to staff and staff said we need a little bit more refinement in those and so he brought these back. Um these were presented to uh the committee. Um and then they were refined further to you bring some different ideas into it once we had some of the punchlines like we play outside. Um that that played into this. So that's where the kid jump in and and the rivers and stuff. Um and then yes some of the other uh taglines are in there as well that we're going through. This is the phase three part of this. Um and so these are more advanced designs exploring different type faces, different color situations. Um a multiolor or just a twocolor those kind of things. Um again this is still phase three. Um and so eventually that got uh whittleled down to uh three designs and these were the three that were presented to the council of which they chose the one that we have today. Um so it was a long extensive process um a lot of meetings a lot of input from a lot of people um and that's how we got there. um the original cost. Um from there we went on to the sign in uh signage um exercise which was the natural extension of the branding. Um and that again was a year process um incorporating the logo into the sign style with the the wave on the top of the signs and those kind of things. Um so um I think the initial cost we got into you know with the branding the signage u master plan and the gateway sign somewhere near $17,000 in and those dollars were spent in 2017 through 2021. Um what that translates to I don't know now. Um there's a lot of things that we have put this branding on at the moment there and I don't really have them as identified costs but um just some of the things public work vehicle liveries they've all got the branding on there. Um all the staff uniforms the uniforms that um people have bought for for the um and the commissions and committees they all go into there. um city event signage that we put out for the holiday and thing, flushing hydrants, um odd even um uh uh uh irrigation. Um the light posts at the front of Elc Stevens Park as you go in, there's two custom light post that put in there with the branding on there. Um and then down to street light banners along Bottom Lane there. and the website relaunch that we just done was a lot of that was based around what we have for the logo. Um, so the upcoming projects I said we got some replacement entry point signage that was uh brought up to everybody's attention that the old ones are looking a little tired and need some refreshing. So we would like to move on that and we have had money in the CIP for some time now uh to add to the the signage that we have but we've held back because you know comments on the the branding and uh costs and those things. Um so we uh LC Stevens entry signage and the new water towers and the existing ones are the upcoming uh projects that I'm looking at. Um some of the considerations depend on what we want to do. If we want to change this branding, um it'll be a lengthy process. Like I said, it was a, you know, two-year process for the signs and the actual branding. Um we we'll be writing off the original cost that we put into the branding. Um the new design may not make a difference. Um with these things, you know, it's very personal preferences. Um, if we go with the personal preference type of thing, um, we'll probably be back in the same position in a couple of years time. Um, we'd have to rebuild the brand awareness that we've already got. Even if it's people seeing the D and the toothpaste, they still recognize it as data. So, that brand awareness is there. Uh, we don't have any funding identified currently for um, an exercise. Um, so those are kind of what I need to get some guidance from you, from you guys about what do we want to do, what we trying to achieve by changing the the branding. Um, yeah, I think that's all that I have at the moment. So, so Mar, I think the bulk of that cost was the sign thing, right? >> Second. >> The bulk of that cost was and I don't see why. I mean, I understand that the sign shape might have, you know, the little swoosh thing, but I'm not sure what >> I'm not sure this would have any bearing on redoing the sign thing. Um, but I don't know. I I think I've just hear nothing but trash on the on the logo. So, what do you where do you guys want to go? >> I mean, I I have a couple of thoughts. I've been actively and intimately involved in five different logo redesigns because um actually graphic design was my one of my top choices um for I liked math and I liked art. Um so that's those are the things I studied. Um and I have friends who are graphic designers and I'm going to say if we went through this process again, we are maybe going to get a different logo, but we're not going to get a better logo. Um, there will always be people who don't like whatever logo we pick, no matter what. There will be people who don't like it and some of those people are going to be vocal about it. Um, the vast majority of people I have never heard I've heard from one person ever not liking this logo. Only one. Um, I've never heard from anyone else with any complaints about it. Um, stylistically, it's actually pretty good. Um, it's easy to read. You can read it from a distance. It looks good in black and white and in color. It has nice style elements. Um, font-wise, it's a good choice in font. It ticks like a lot of your design boxes. Um, I'll also just say, having been involved in those projects, some with like large groups of people and some with individuals, group designed art is trash. It just is. You're never going to get art designed by a group of people that is going to be as good as art designed by one or two individuals. And there's no way we can do this as one or two individuals. It's going to have to be a giant group project. And therefore, it's never going to be that great. It's just not. It's I mean, if you actually ask designers if you can get them in a place where they'll be honest with you, all of my friends who are designers will say the same thing. >> Group made art never comes out as well. It just can't. Um, so this would be a ton of work by staff. It would be a ton of work by residents and by some of us and other people. And we're not >> agree with most of what you just said. >> And we're not going to get anything better. I think this is a complete and utter waste of time and money and there's nothing wrong with our logo put together. >> I know that's what I'm saying. >> You're not going to get better is my point. It's going to be a ton of work, a ton of money. You're going to have to replace a bunch of stuff that's perfectly serviceable for a bunch of people who are constantly talking about how we have to keep our budget down and for what? We gain nothing. We gain absolutely nothing for a huge outlay of costs. It's just not worth it. >> I don't really care about changing it myself. I mean, I don't see the benefit from doing it. >> Where you guys at? >> Because personally, >> I don't >> I'll forget about what's ever up there in the next next week anyway. I mean, it doesn't doesn't trip my trigger. >> It doesn't affect anything. >> No, >> I get the I mean, the comments about the toothpaste thing, but I honestly I don't mind the logo at all. And I think where we have stumbled the most has been on the cost of monument signs, which unfortunately are expensive, >> but I think we'd be better off spending our time trying to figure out ways to make those more cost effective. >> Um, the signs, >> not the signs themselves, and not uh, >> okay, >> not spin our wheels a bunch on on a new logo for the city. I think it's fine. >> Is that where you're at? >> I have a question. Marty, the problem statement here is that is it does it go back to when we talked about the sign coming into Dayton on Fernbrook and we I think I maybe had made a comment about um Okay, maybe not by your eyebrows. Probably not. Okay, so then that's fine. I'm just trying to understand like we're talking about this because fill in the blank because we made the comment about that sign coming in or >> Well, that was just a recent thing. There's been comments um you know back and forth for a while and trying to get you know uh some guidance to just make sure that we're going with this um but that I would say that triggered you know this late saying because I want to try and move on with the signage um thing. Okay, that make that makes sense. >> Yeah, >> cult. That's exact. I mean, they kind of just the last trigger of it is more like this. But as a city staff, we're trying to be as cognizant of budget as possible. And so the last thing we want to do is say, okay, we don't like the branding, but we're going to put all our sign in or put two more signs in or put three more signs in or whatever, and we still hate this branding. So now we've just added costs on the fact that we want to add different branding or change the branding up. Now we added more cost to doing that. Um, we'd rather we only have one sign currently in the in town that has this logo on it. And so I'd rather only do redo one sign than redo four, three, what even two signs. Um, and then all the obviously all the gear and everything else and all the vehicles and and again those aren't a large it's not a large dollar amount. I mean, one vehicle thing >> probably $5. >> We don't need to do it then. We don't need to. Okay. >> So that's why it came up is just because >> that's important context. We don't want to move forward with anything that the council says why are we not like the branding so that you can just change what's on there. >> Is it the toothpaste? >> It doesn't matter >> because I think my husband is the one that said it and I think in the beginning >> it is toothpaste. So it doesn't matter if we've got if we don't have any intent to hygiene. >> There's nothing wrong with it. >> Okay. >> I don't Yeah, I I hear what you're saying. I see the toothpaste. I can't unsee it. >> You can't unsee it. But >> having said that, I don't think it's a terrible logo and I don't want to fix what's not broken. >> There's your answer. Okay. Thank you very much. >> Now, I don't want to spend 50,000 on the sign coming into this firm. >> What about 60,000? 65. >> It can be done for five. I'm sure >> I think that's price rules. >> Thank you, Marty. >> Thank you. >> F need me to find a guy. I can probably do 15 minutes worth of digging and get was cons for any questions of payment of claims. Otherwise, the department of heads will hear any questions. >> I had a thing. >> I didn't even look this time. >> Uh, page 92. Oh, >> let me get it up. Sorry. Sorry. >> I still I have it in the right notebook. Um, it was page 92. It was the Minnesota Department of Labor and Industry $7,950. I just What was that? That's all. Uh, Council Vanessa, I don't have an answer for you. I don't I don't know what that is. Is there any context of like a description besides >> It says Minnesota Department of Labor and Industry building permit search charge um $7,952. >> Okay. So, that is a report that we have to file. I believe we file it annually. Okay. And it's an annual report that goes back to So, we collect a search charge on every building permit. It's either based on evaluation. So, it's then it's um arbitrary bit or it's a dollar or $5 or whatever. That's most of the time it's on a building permit and then if we have like a fence permit or a deck permit that comes in, we charge a dollar for it and that's basically a check that we have to come back to the state for their building permit search charges. Um, and it's normally once a year that we do that just because it's such a small dollar amount that um, we don't meet the criteria for doing it more >> okay >> frequently. >> And I probably wasn't aware of anything last January I was still very dear in the headlights so probably didn't even notice it. >> Yeah. And again, it's not a large dollar amount. Um once you get over a certain dollar a month, then they'll make you do it quarterly. Okay. Until you get >> back to a dollar a month that they're okay with having it annually. And I think the cut off is $10,000. >> Okay. >> Um because I think we did had to do it quarterly for a little while where we were collecting a lot of building permits. Okay. >> And then we had to do it quarterly for a year or two or three and then they said, "Oh no, now you're back to >> Okay. >> annual levels. >> Anybody else?" >> Uh I have just a quick one out of curiosity. Marty, we have an an agreement with Cintas for eyewash. >> Yeah. >> Servicing. So, are they doing all all of the the testing and replacement and so on? >> Yes. >> Um we don't do any of like the weekly inspection stuff ourselves. >> No, we we handed that off to Cintas um to do theirs. We had two couple of mobile stations um at public works um because we u they weren't plumbed in. They weren't a requirement when we built the building. So, we hired Cintas to bring those in to bring us up to OSHA compliance and they maintain all of that stuff um for us. They do the the regular uh service in on it and I think there's a quarterly service that they do as well to change out all the fluids. >> Okay. Thank you. >> That's all I had. >> Anybody else? I need a motion and a second. >> Make motion to approve a second. >> Okay. Any more discussion? All those in favor say I. >> I. >> All those post say no. Carries five to zero. >> Item G. >> Good evening, mayor and council. Uh tonight we have our I'll say annual road improvement project identified. Um these are streets identified in the city's pavement management plan which was adopted uh and scheduled for a mill and overlay treatment. So we join those together for a single project. The streets involved are those as shown in blue on the screen. Um generally in the northeast area of the city and then uh just the one segment u down in the southwest corner of Holly Lane. Um just a a couple minor notes on these. Um Holly Lane does have some pretty extensive curb repairs needed just because of larger settled areas and poor drainage. uh together with some cracked panels and other concrete work that needs to be completed. So, just so council's aware, we have been in contact with the businesses down there to coordinate any uh hopefully short duration interruptions that might occur during the project with their truck traffic in the area. So, mostly Quick Trip King Solutions RBO. Um, and then, uh, Balsam Lane, just wanted to mention, and we haven't gone through this yet, but we do have a current application for a senior living facility on Balsam Lane that will involve removing some median and constructing some pavement in there. We're going to, our thought is to wait and see if how impactful that will be and what the timing of that is. Um, if it's going to conflict with this or damage our new surface, we may want to wait with that segment until a future project. So, we'll see if that project goes through. If it does, we'll look at the timing and again, if it doesn't work, that may be removed from this project and considered probably with the following year's project. So, um, just to make that note. And then just to list the estimated project costs as shown on the screen, we're just under $2 million, which is very slightly higher than that of the CIP. Um, in all honesty, I expect us to be well under that for the indirect costs. Um, I don't think we'll be anywhere near the 55,000. So, we'll probably end up somewhere much closer to the actual CIP amount identified. And then just to note the project schedule, if plans are approved tonight, we would advertise and then open contractor bids on March 3rd. That'd come back before you on March 10th for award. And if awarded, the work would be cons completed sometime this summer. We do tend to leave as large of a window as possible on these so contractors can kind of pick and choose when they do it. We believe it brings more competitive pricing to the project. So given that there's not any specific times to avoid other than school, we do um require it be done prior to the start of school in the in the fall. Um but we do leave that window as large as we can. So, >> is there any thing with the um cuz that light is going in right at Holly Lane. >> Yes. >> Okay. Is there any concern about >> We're stopping well short of that. So, we're actually stopping where the improvements ended with the interchange. So, it's a >> it might even be like right in the middle of the rightin access to Quick Trip. >> Okay. >> So, yeah, the last like maybe 200 feet or however long that is will remain as is today. What's the um replacement when you do a mill and overlay? How do you how long do you expect that to last on a on a typical road? >> Um 7 to 10 years is kind of the life expectancy. Is is that what you mean to the life of the pavement >> and the and the degrad the standard we have standard degradation models. Um and just >> the the universal fit for that is a 7 to 10 year assumption >> for extended life. is is this then for Pine View because that was done in that window. Um is the road I don't remember the road being in tough shape but I'm wondering why it's included in here. Pine View. Oh um well it was identified with the uh so this is just north of South Diamond. Um I think this was completed in 201 12 I think this this segment it I think it was. >> Is it that long ago >> or No, it was later than that. >> Yeah. 2014 I think maybe even 2015 because it was right when I started here or right before. Um yeah I I mean we again we brought the equipment out and and ran the analysis on it and that that came up with the scheduled. Um >> there is a little bit I'll say a tendency or more weight put in put on the heavier traveled roads just to keep on top of those so they don't y >> they don't fall apart. So those that we might see a little bit a little bit more of a frequent application on them. >> Okay. >> Mayor Cel also if you go back and review the payment management plan that we did back in 2022 2023 um can't exact year apologize. Um you will not see these exact things line up at the exact same time. And the reason for that is because we tried to group them as close together physically as possible. Because if we have one road on the north side of town and the one and then other roads on the south side of town in one year, we're going to pay a lot more mobilization costs for that versus if we say, "Okay, pull this road in this section one year early and maybe push this one out two years." >> So then why is Holly Lane in here? Um, so the reason why Holly Lane is because we couldn't put that into last year's cost related to the MSA dollars and the dollars we had available to pull forward for East French Lake Road and 125th. So we didn't have enough money available to do Holly Lane because that's what that was lined up to be was 125th. Okay. >> East French Lake Road and then do Holly Lane. >> That one is a oneoff that we tried our best to and we couldn't get it into the co project costs last year. >> Okay. And maybe this is the answer, but I just want to confirm that the the um side streets in the old village, those were part of the original study as well. >> The pavement management plan. >> Yes. >> Yes. Those were evaluated also >> because some of those seem to be in pretty rough. >> They're really rough. Yeah. Um I I suspect the way that falls in the software is it's probably letting those go until a full reconstruct because they're probably past benefiting from a project such as this. So has to be above a certain threshold before this is a a good treatment, if you will. Otherwise, it'll have a very short lifespan. >> Yeah. So >> those will fall into our plan at some point. >> Yes. Yep. Yeah. In fact, I think we've speculated. >> Yeah. I think we've speculated that they'll probably be in the next round. So, we're putting them in as a placeholder now. And then when we update our our study, I I guess on that note, um the regular scheduled interval for re-evaluating the roads would fall later this year. So our intent would be to complete this project as the third year of improvements and then evaluate the roads after this project is completed and that will verify the following two years of the last plan and then build it out an additional three if that makes sense. So >> sure. >> Jason, do you have an idea how this compares with the 125th project and South Diamond project as far as miles or amount of asphalt being put down? >> I apologize. I did not um I did not sub up the length of this one. >> I mean to me it seems like less asphalt now. Maybe it's more. I don't know. I didn't do the math. But >> it looks to be a little bit more expensive here. >> It could be. I mean with the inflation costs on it, but yeah. >> And maybe who knows? Maybe when we get a bid we it'll be less. >> The one thing I do notice in here is that 5% engineering. I mean, can't we do that all the time? >> I wish all the projects were as straightforward as these are. Um, we try. We we try, but yeah, some of these are much easier than others. So, call over salonic. Also, one thing to notice is that Holly Lane does have curb on it, too. So, as soon as you pull in another crew, now you got an additional cost of mobilization and another totally different crew that doesn't handle pavement. So, in 125th East French Lake Road, there was no curb. It was just it was just straight pavement and just mill and go. And so um h lane will with that curb replacement takes additional coordination and so that might add a cost. I don't think it's that much cost but again there is more costs involved with that. >> Okay questions for staff >> and this money is in the budget right? It's already budgeted more. Okay. >> Yeah. So council council vaness question. If you were to look at the long-term plan right now it would be significantly higher than this. And the reason for that is because we were looking at and I always forget the name of the road. Is it 126? >> 126 in >> 126 in Kings View, which is um Stoneharth Ridge development. There is a small section of roadway in there that basically we were going to try to get into the 125th project. Couldn't for couldn't get it in that one. Um we analyzed it. It has asphalt curb versus concrete curb. So you can't mill all the way up to the asphalt curb. You can't replace the asphalt curb because then you end up having to totally take it out. I'm going to let the engineer talk at this point. And uh so that couldn't be done. So, the cost was I think we had like $1.3 million in there for that neighborhood and um staff decided that probably was a little steep for the couple of homes that are on there and it's not in that bad of shape where it it's not near the rate that 152nd was and we did that one a couple of years ago after that one was way worse. So, um Jason could probably expand on it more than I can but the reasons why but you'll see it significantly higher in the budget because of 126 being there. We removed that out just based on the sure cost of that and said we probably should just do that maybe on a one-off project or something at that point. >> I make a motion to approve the bidding. >> A second. >> Any more discussion? All those in favor say I. >> I. >> All those opposed say no. That carries 5 to zero and then we are on item H. >> For the record, Scott, we could be going home. Just want you to know that. It's >> all right. >> This will take an hour, hour and a half, I'm sure. Dang it. >> I'm just kidding. >> This should take about 15 minutes, but >> I'm just >> Yeah. So, mayor members council council had brought this to my attention um as he wanted to look at things. So, we had planned on hing on the 224 meeting and he said, "Well, we should do it now." So, um I had put stuff together for the 224 meeting and so happy to >> there's a reason for doing that. >> Move it forward. Um here we go. Um and may may I'll go through the quick quick some things that cultivan had brought to my attention about doing the amphitheater. We got good direction I felt at the 27th meeting of January. I appreciate that direction. Um however, there's just one more bit of that bid process that we had decided in as a council that I want to make sure understand that council understands after Marty and I talked and said I guess I'm not exactly sure what kind of bid process we want to do because we can break out different things. So, I'm going to go through a couple of the types of structures. And I guess what I'm looking for from council is what kind of structure do you want as the amphitheater. Um, I think I have six different designs here that I kind of have and I'll go through each one of them. So, you can and we can analyze and adjust and do things. I apologize this wasn't sent out in advance because I >> was going through the 24th. You can blame me of February. Um, so I would have sent this out willingly in advance and I apologize about that. I thought we determined the type of structure in our six things when we went through design. >> I I just didn't know the design. Sorry. We said you went on a >> on materials. We did not agree on design. >> What? >> No, we did. We said the wave. >> The minutes said the wave and you guys are good with that. I just want to make sure you're good with it because I put together a couple different amphitheater designs >> that we can do. And I've gone with the wave. That's simple direction. That's easy for me. The deal is is it takes 10 to 12 weeks to get this thing and to me we need to get we need to decide what we're doing to get it ordered and then we have time to do some of the engineering behind it. >> Can you go back to some of the other ones? >> Yep. Sorry. >> Okay. So, okay. >> I'm good. Except I'm good with I apologize. I did not read the minutes and that's on me, not on anybody else then if that's what was >> when I thought we had just agreed on materials. I didn't think we had agreed in design. Sorry. And I skimmed that part of the minutes. So, >> okay. Okay. So, there's a constellation amphitheater, which is kind of a um an oval or I want to say a bow design. You got the wave, which you guys have seen 15 times probably. Um I don't know how to say the one on the left. Amphitheater. Got some curvature on the front of it and it's straight on the back. Kcomo. >> Cooko. >> Cooko. There you go. >> Um and again, these are all different designs. You can make it whatever you want for types of materials and stuff. But and then the Houston amphitheater which is more of that um kind of I don't even know which one trapezoid kind of style. >> There are some other things to think about on what kind of a structure do you want some of somewhat of an overhang in front of it because everything faces south. So, in high sun, if you have it cut off right at the stage, you might get some sunshine into the stage. >> You guys hated I know you guys hated the one on the right, but it was a different kind of amphitheater design, so I wanted to show it. Not because I thought you guys would pick that one, but >> I had already heard Yeah, I'm aware. Just like I said, just different design. the other one. >> Um, so we did have we were having MSA they got this to us today >> um to get some kind of what do you want to call uh renderings of what it would look like if we had the wave design. Um just to kind of get a general synopsis of what it would look like if it was there. >> You did not put the uh the polygon one in there. >> That's the Houston style. >> Oh, is it? Okay. that Polygon is the manufacturer, right? >> And it's called the Houston style, which is the trapezoid looking thing. >> And this thing is is um specific to a company. They sell the wave. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> So, our question from staff level is we need to know the design you're looking for. I apologize if I missed that in the minutes. I'm fine with the wave. that's what the council wants, I'm good with it. I just want to provide other options if that's the case. And we need to know what kind of bid process you want to do. So, um, as Marty and I talked more and more, we said, "Well, I don't know what they're looking for for a bid if they want to get this thing moving forward as as quick as possible." Um, we want to bid out the entire project, which includes the canopy. So like basically say we want a canopy and we want it done here and we send it out for bid and basically say give us our best price back for both a canopy and all the work to be done with it which is similar to roadways and water infrastructure projects like the wellhead treatment plant and stuff. We didn't pick any of the individual things out. We didn't buy anything separately. We just did we want this and that's what we want done. or does the council want us to do with the second bid way bid option and I call it a bid in quotes because it ends up being less than the $175,000 requirement from the state statute is we select a canopy design we'll go purchase it as staff level and purchase it through a quote process comes as a kit and then staff would then in quotes bid out or quote out the process of the rest of the stuff with concrete work assembly installation of the canopy and electrical work which takes us out of that general contractor role. So both of them take us out of the general contractor role. It's just do we want to do it as a physical bid process of the entire thing or do we want to do as a bid process of the work and then the purchase of the product. We do that in our park infrastructure projects and we failed as staff to ask you that question. So we needed more clarification from council on what kind of bid process you want to do. >> Well, if we include it then it really can't get on order assuming they order from the same company. >> That's correct. It can't get an order until the bids are >> That is correct. >> And we can't can't we do um you know owner supplied on this thing if it's if it's one that I mean if the company is kind of set on who we're getting it from? We would have to have MSA get dimensions on the thing so we know what is to be ordered. But can't we do that as owner supplied contractor installed? Yes, that would be option two. Yeah, >> option two would be we supply the product, you're going to install it for us and assemble it for us, which is why we said at staff level, we failed to ask that question at council level to understand what kind of bid process you want to do. We heard bid. It's just which one do you want to do? The water infrastructure roadways one where it's just everything or do you want to do it like parks where we pick the playground and then they install it for us. This is how we do that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We would still need somebody to install it, do the concrete work and the electrical, right? But at least you could get a general contract. a production slot anyway. I mean, if we if we place the order ourselves for it. >> Yep. >> Then that can be ahead of the bid process. >> Correct. >> Just in the bid documents as we supply it. >> You got it. >> Yep. >> That would be my preference. >> So, it' be option two, kind of like we do our park infrastructure projects. >> Okay. >> I have no opinion on which bid process. I don't I think there's pros and cons to both. Um, I'm okay if if if option two seems like it makes more sense. I'm fine with that. >> It's going to be cheaper for sure. >> Well, it saves some time. Right. >> Okay, then I'm fine with that. >> Do we go back to the design? >> I got I got I just want to make sure I got direction. Got option two. I got one option two and then doesn't matter. >> Two. I'm fine with >> two. >> You know where I am. >> Two. >> Would you like to say it for two? >> Okay. >> I understand. >> That's fine. >> Two. Okay. So then >> so what does that mean for um >> so we so say that again >> I'm just wondering about the the bid process then >> so what would happen then from this point forward is we would have to get engineering so we will come back and get um authorized plans and specs from council to do engineering on the um what we want done y >> and then um we'll get that taken care of hopefully that takes 30 days knock on wood >> okay >> um or so get it back to the council for authorization of I'm going to call it in quotes bids, but it would be for quotes because it's going to be less than $175,000 for all the rest of the work related. And then we would get those quotes. We can quote it out for 14 days or 30 days or whatever and then get those quotes back to council so you guys can approve that project. Um, whatever canopy design we do, we're going to try to have to get another quote if we can and then get that ordered up as fast as possible from council's perspective. So >> what did you just say that last bit >> from cultural's perspective? >> No, the >> try to we have to grab another quote for something. So if it's only made by one company, we're going to have to go to another company because I can't we can't purchase anything over $25,000 without getting a second quote. So $25,000 to 175, we have to get two quotes unless it's gone through the state bid process. And unless I mean maybe the company does go through the state bid process. I'm unaware of that. Um we haven't checked at all the staff level. Um, but if they don't, we have to go get a second quote. So, I'm going to have to provide a rendering of that and say, you know, I don't know. I don't know who makes that one. I have no idea. But another company, we mentioned Polygon earlier. I think this to Polygon and say, "Okay, give me a price to build this." And that price might be astronomical, but at least we have to get another quote. That's requirement. >> Okay. >> And then we get it on the um council meeting on order as soon as we possibly can. that way the 10 to 12 weeks. >> We assume a company that doesn't build that wouldn't bid it. >> And they might not, maybe they won't. And then we'd have to bring back the council and say, "Hey, we can't get a second quote." So, we fulfilled our requirements of going to try. >> Oh, I see. Okay. >> If we can't get one, we can't get one. But we have to at least showcase that we tried and as a response. >> Okay. >> An attempt has to be made. >> Yes. Yeah. You can't just pick somebody because I like the design of that one. That's great. But based on state statute requirements, I have to get a second quote. >> Yeah. Then the next question I would have is is what's the general feeling on do we want the size to be the exact size of the stage >> or do you want overhang? >> I would think we've gone over. >> I agree with that. >> I think the one that's shown here is they've done a rendering over 30 by 30. >> So that's what it looked like. And I don't think there's no overhang on that. Please >> 30 by 30 would have an overhang on it automatically because our stage is only 20 by 30. >> Yeah. in stage. We're not looking at changing the size of just >> raising it. >> Raising it >> and then Okay. And then the the area out front would just be >> Yeah. We heard dance floor and we heard >> it would just be >> um open. Y >> and everyone's okay with the wave. Just want to >> Well, that's why could we go back to those other options? I haven't had a chance to look at them really till this moment. >> Okay. I'm going to go with those. >> I'm assuming those two are nos. >> Those are nos. That's no question. >> And I'm not a huge fan of either. I wanted to look at that regular curve versus the wave. That was the one that caught my eye on the very Go back one more second. >> That one I could >> That one looks nice, too. >> That's what I'm saying. I wanted to look at that one some more. >> I would be okay with either of those. I'm I for something I'm loving. I like the regular arch a little more than I like the wave, but not enough to like >> But I don't any the wave is angled. Yeah, >> from what I could tell, the wave is angled, so the back is lower and the front is higher. the constellation or constellation style are just flat like they're like they're level and then they >> same height in front. >> Same height in front and back. >> Okay. >> So that one have a different look. Yeah. I like the first one too but the fact that it's sloped is >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I think that's a little better. >> Yeah. >> That from this view I couldn't tell. >> And you got to picture it without the concrete. >> Yeah. I tried to do them as equal as possible. A big bad picture. I would be okay with either of these options. But if the angle is important, then that's fine. But yeah, I like I like curves. I don't like the straight angles. I like both curves. So >> I'm a wave guy. >> Wave. Wave. >> Wave. Still wave. Okay, perfect. Just want I just apologize. I must have missed that in the minutes or in my notes. >> It's a waiver. We will do that process and um get that back to council and we're good with 30 by 30 which is a 10 foot overhang over the front. >> The price that we have so far is 7000 >> 185 but we don't pay tax. So that comes off of there. The other question that would bring the cost down and >> it would be asphalt shingles on top instead of instead of sheet metal. I think the metal will hold up better in the wind. >> Well, sorry. Go back to the way. >> And that cost difference is only 2500 bucks. It's not >> going to say it should be a lot. >> No. >> Um >> I would think that >> what would it look like from the river though? Like I'm just trying to think of like obviously the people down here looking at it probably won't matter what the roof looks like, but >> who's going to see I guess who's going to see the roof and would that matter what it looks like? You might be able to see the roof from the top of where the um >> yeah the top on up on top. >> I can't think of what you call that thing the polygon the pergola. >> Okay. >> Would the metal look more attractive than the asphalt? >> I don't know. I don't know that answer. >> What about >> I just like the red color wood. I mean I like it. >> Yeah. >> I think from a maintenance um perspective I prefer to add on that wood. Okay. >> Otherwise in 25 years you're out there. Yeah. >> But is there any noise impact for I mean yeah she me say it's say it's raining. I guess if it's raining you don't care. >> It's raining you don't care. Nobody's going to be there. >> Yeah. >> Sure. >> Um one question that um Marty had just brought up but I should ask the question as well is what kind of lighting would you like in this? No lighting. >> No. >> Would you like lighting underneath kind of like what it shows there? I think you wanting the other one is stage lighting which is a lot but again just throwing options out there. >> Yeah. What's theirs? >> So, just a couple of lights underneath. >> Minimal lighting. >> Minimal lighting. >> Got to have something. >> There's one that's I'm going to say this, this Houston one has them on the side and LEDs. Do you care which kind of lighting? So, that one would kind of go from the side. I'll go back to the wave one and you could kind of see it would be tucked into the corners versus down the middle. >> Well, should be LED, not mercury vapor or something. >> I think three lights just like that looks looks fine. >> I Yeah, >> that one. Okay. Exactly. Exactly like that. >> That's Yeah, >> I got two. >> Yep. >> I got lots of head nods and some Yep. Okay. Sounds good. >> Yep. >> I think we got we have everything we need, Marty. I think so. >> Okay. Thank you very much. >> We good. >> All right. So, if there are no objections, we'll be adjourned. See, that only added 15. We're good.