for I will start the regular meeting Dayton city council for September 24th pledge to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right need a motion second for the all motion I'll second okay any discussion okay no discussion all those in favor say I I all all those opposed Say No Agenda carries 5 to zero on to consent I a motion a second I'll make the motion to approve it with I want some discussion on D or a question I guess okay I need a second one second right go ahead uh Gary the grass rig that's coming out of Public Safety dollars correct no pause pause dramatic effect tada perfect Council salanic uh no it's just a proposal to look at um I was able to get we we did purchase one truck from the public safety dollars it's out in the bay here from uh Buffalo um we were able to get it basically at the same contract price as we would at the state contract so my request was just to purchase another being that we have in the capital Improvement budget for next year um at the same cost trying to save some dollars so the one that we did purchase uh just recently um that did come from Public Safety dollars these dollars are in our capital budget for 2025 so it's just a request um like I said we believe that prices are going to increase about 5% um and so therefore that was the request and this the one we already purchased is that going to be a grass rate uh the one that we purchased no that will be a rescue so if you recall um in our Capital Improvement plan rescue 11 is was slated to be replaced for 450,000 I took that vehicle and I split it into two so to speak so we have one grass rig and one rescue so for 200,000 saving 250,000 for the city okay oh correct me if I'm wrong I think we had a grass rig a while back we sold that grass rig because it was too heavy to go out on you know for like the emergency retrieval we then bought the uh side by side for that purpose and I think there's a tank a grass rig tank on the side by side where there was going to be not that you can put out very much fire with uh what 30 40 50 gallons of water but yes we so uh Rescue 22 is designed to for sear excuse me search and rescue on the trails as well as extinguishment of small grass fires that only carries about 80 gallons of water our current grass trucks or let me rephrase that current rescues which is a rescue and grass truck they each carry 300 gallons of water okay okay I don't I'm not sure if we really need another truck is I guess is my point uh and if I remember right there was an older grass rig that was sold that I mean it had like 8,000 mil on it we sold it just because it was not it wasn't used not during my tenure Scott there's been no sale of uh a grass truck we have the two grass trucks that I've had since I've been here rescue 11 was scheduled to be replaced uh next year in 2025 for 450,000 okay all right that's all I got it was sold I just don't remember what I think was before Gary but was it okay it was because stick shift it was a stick shift and it was only two passengers the reason why it was sold yeah so before me too so okay anybody else uh no but uh one of the questions that I I did ask in advance of the meeting meeting was around our uh payment to Three Rivers for uh lock on payment and Zach was able to let me know that this is just Three Rivers catching up with us for the property that we owed them on Dayton River Road um because of the F Pine View lands swap two years ago correct just not you got it that's how long it takes a lot of time to go through the process so prefer not to do that again mayor and Cil noted so yeah that one kind of stuck out to me but uh well I guess we have to use the money for a while so fine that was my my only else guess okay we got a motion second all those in favor say I I all oppos say no I'm going to say no to D well you can't we got to pull it out pull it out okay well let's pull out I'll say let's pull it out okay even though I'm going to it's going to be four to one so okay I'll make a motion to approve AB c e f I'll second okay um why don't we make a motion to pull D out yeah and that way it's okay got a motion second I need a second second okay I'll second it please I'm lost what's going on so I'm just falling just can consent so if we want to pull di out um otherwise consent will fail so all right I Mo I uh Scott you motion to get D out yeah and I will second it and I need um uh any discussion on moving the out okay all those in favor say I all those oppos no okay that motion carries 5 to zero so now consent consists of ab c e and f um is your motion still good Scott sure and Dave yes okay any more discussion on that all those in favor say I I all those opposed say no uh consent passes 5 to zero item D need a motion and a second a motion okay second and this is to motion to approve mtion this is mtion to approve all all right okay need a second I'll second okay any discussion my only my only comment here is the fire department's taken I mean this is apparently this is just an extra truck and uh the dollars that have been going there incredible and um that's my deal In fairness it was budgeted for $450,000 next year and they cut that down to $200,000 by splitting up into two vehicles by buying it now versus buying it next year we're expecting to save money yeah okay I would say my my only comment on it is that we we've been doing a bunch of juggling around and I'm having trouble keeping up so I hope somebody is keeping track of what we're trading for what and what we're doing early in this case I guess um would did get budgeted for versus fion I've been keeping track of everything we're up to date um it's like two I think there's two pieces of equipment that we have not purchased yet don't plan of purchasing there's one that's the forklift that was planned for 20124 and then there was floor scrubber um neither one of those are going to actually be replaced um or added to the fleet to public work so that's the two items that have been on 24 that we have not purchased yet but everything else has been purchased and before so we are CAU completely which is hard to believe with all that we ordered it and then it was long we didn't we had to wait for 2 years or a year or whatever so we are up to dat um this would be the first time buying something early in 25 but that would then be noted that we have $100,000 a year market for 25 in the long-term plan for this grass rig um by getting it now we're probably saving at least three grand somewhere there so if we think about it in terms of we could probably get an extended warranty for the same price as we would just be buying the truck next year um for the same price so that's the reason why we're looking forward to do today yes I am keeping track good thank you yep any more discussion okay and Item B all those in favor say I I I all those post say no no okay motion carries for one open Forum anybody here for open Forum anybody online for open Forum so if you wanted to speak in an open form if you use the raise your hand function see no hang we will be on to the staff consultant Council update Z yeah me and Council I have one update it is a positive one which is fantastic we did receive um confirmation that we will receive the $1.75 million State Grant we were awarded for the Wellhead treatment plant we will receive that tomorrow in our bank account so we receive that notification today so I want to give that update to the council that's news on the rest of that the $4 million Federal grant the project the project overall is you know as as far as we can get it without ever you know without sacrificing the $4 million Federal grant um at some point this Council and staff may have to decide to move forward with the project even though we don't really want to um the dollars aren't forfeited necessarily but they are then utilized and we have to um essentially get reimbursement for water treatment so treating of the water so it's like you know chlorine and phosphor and whatever else we put in the water fluoride or whatever that goes is it phosphate not phosphorus poly phosphate poly phosphate so the the cost of actually doing the treatment of the water would then be reimbursed by that Grant so we don't lose the grant but the grant doesn't come back to us in one lump big sum that comes back to us over time we haven't told 2030 to spend that money um but it was generically written about water treatment not specifically this well hit treatment plant so we're doing our best to keep dollar moving forward but um feel it's gonna take a lot of uh chemicals to treat $4 million worth of water yeah and this is for Oldtown this is for the one that's currently yeah that's on hold currently with um next to River Hills Park that is why it is on hold this we're waiting on that $4 million confirmation hey let go positive we got 1.75 million and it's in the bank so thank you Amy uh just that elections are going on so absentee started on the 20th um we are definitely busier than the primary or even the presidential primary so um just to let everyone know on October 18th is when there's the no clawback date also when direct balloting starts so if you're interested in coming into City Hall uh October 18th up until the day before election day you can stick your ballot directly into the ballot counter mayor and Council I have a few updates uh Park improvements 2024 Paul has pulled together drafted a timeline uh for completion of the Pug improvements uh package um and a separate timeline for the bridge installation I had a couple of questions that I needed to get answered by Paul so once those are um we've had that discussion I will make sure you get an accurate timeline probably early next week uh for the rest of the project um he did do as a again a chart um water Trails um we finally secured the uh grant funding from NPS uh 100,000 is now available to us so that's good news um the archaeological study is being conducted this week at LC Stevens Park they did a walk through they're doing some dig this week uh they have found some um artifacts well not artifacts some pottery and some glass down there that's of interest to them but it's not going to cause the site to be preserved as an archaeological site so I think we're good there um roads Mill and overlay project a quick update I spoke with the project manager on site today they uh they'll be Milling through Thursday this week um they'll be Paving on Friday and possibly Saturday I won't know until Thursday if they definitely need to work on Saturday um there was a little bit confusion with the bus company I understand on Monday that they couldn't get through um I did talk with um uh the people at hening County the previous Thursday and told them they' got to get in touch with those people they said they had I did in fact talk with the uh school um the the bus the what's his name uh the guy who runs all the transport for the the bus uhj company BJ BJ I and and explain to him what was happening in the timeline for the project um so he was aware of it um the week before um and evidently that message didn't get passed through his staff either so there's some Communication Breakdown there um so hopefully that has been you know revised now and they can get through um this the the buses aren't part of the hard closure so they will get through even if they have to wait a little bit for flagin to get through uh chip and fog seal project I've had some complaint from residents about the chips uh going up their driveways and into their garages and stuff like that um it's not a huge amount of complaints but they're uh persistent so I've asked the um uh the contractor to come out and do another sweep through to try and get the residual amounts off the off the road um water um I sent the email to you guys yesterday about uh um well four going down um The Well Drilling were out today they've removed all the equipment out of the well it's Now offline uh I'm not sure how long it's going to be offline they're taking the equipment back to their shop so they can pull it apart and see what's uh what's causing the problem uh the metal shavings that are coming up um through the well um I'm not sure what the timeline is going to be on that um hopefully residents will be able to um cut back on their irrigation at this time just so we can keep ahead of the five flow requirements from well 2 is that still under their warranty from last time I'm not I don't believe it is still under warranty take them oh goad I will double check on that but I'm pretty sure it was a 2-year warranty and that has expired mhm this isn't the first time this has happened is it on this well no this is similar to what happened before but until they diagnose it I'm not I'm not going to know exactly what it is um there's several theories about what it could be um it could be uh there's uh we're pulling quite a bit of sand out of that um well so we got a slower ramp up and that might be causing some defects in in the bearings if that's what it is settlement in so it might mean that we will have to go and airlift out out the um the the remaining sand down there um which could be an expensive project but we'd have to clean the well hole out itself to get the uh remaining sand out of there that I'm not sure where that's coming from okay what's it been like 26 months I think since last like two summers ago yeah it's very close to 24 month ago yeah it's two years okay on the Gant charts you make sure when you send them to council you include the Parks Commission in that as well yeah I will I got a Parks Commission meeting on Tuesdays so I will get them to you guys and get them to the Parks Commission at the same time good evening mayor members of council uh Sunday October 6th is our open house uh here at Station 2 from 11:00 to 2 so we invite everyone to come on out enjoy the different activities that we're going to have evening mayor members of council just let you know we have three trainings coming up um first responder October 2nd we have our Firearms qualification this Wednesday um and then our department meeting on October 14th so it'll be a busy couple weeks um we might be a little short staff so priority calls will be handled um non priority might be help put on hold during the trainings nothing uh just an update regarding the parking lot back at Central Park here they did uh push the start date to October 7th for that so it's it's out a week Beyond um what was anticipated uh substantial completion is still November 8th and the contractor is confident they can still meet that date I think confident they're going to start when they say they're going to start this time I hope so okay they're they're hung up on a mad job is what I'm told and they're they're trying to get over here SC I don't believe I have anything Travis pass nothing for me um I had a couple things one is um I wanted to thank Public Works Fire Department police department for coming out the Heritage days and helping out it was success and there was a lot of um um out of Community Fund so and probably too much beer being sold um second question I had was um the question we had the last time on the budget there's there was some discussion as to whether those full-time firefighters were going to be effectively free or not correct did that get resolved we are waiting for confirmation but we are pretty sure very sure of the fact that yes they will be covered and there will be a benefit for us to have them internally because of the fact that we can use those dollar stops at retirement for our current full-time department so so we actually be a a positive correct dollar because we are not foregoing all of the state aid dollars to the Fire Relief we would be retaining that as a city okay well that's good news we will we are still waiting for the Department of Revenue Minot Department of Revenue Chief has reached out to them um and waiting for a inwriting return we've heard in verbal but we wanted in writing before we confirm anything so that's what we're waiting for cool okay good Dave yeah nothing for me I just wanted to thank uh Zach for inviting us to the the police the sorry the fire benefit dinner and the firefighters for uh having us out so that was a lot of fun on Friday nights thank you for that and then uh the date and Heritage days my first time being in the parade had a lot of fun um so thank you and thank you for everyone who organized it and the uh MC's for keeping people engag during the parade so thank you very much all right uh Council business new business item G met Council comments discussion thank you Mr Mayor so uh is the council is where we're gearing up for our next comprehensive a plan me let's see uh back up a little bit so do our best to see that one screen way over there trying my best oh yeah that one doesn't work okay this is going to change uh everything yeah so the Metropolitan council is regional planning authorities so they uh have the ability of planning for and regulate uh Regional sewer um as well as affordable housing and um mass transit among other items uh the Met Council has their own comprehensive plan uh which in the comprehensive plan is a 20-year document that is a intended as a guide of how change occurs in land use and other uh items uh the Met council is currently in the process of drafting their policies um those policies will be approved in February uh followed by System statements that will come out to different uh communities and from that system statements we start working on the comprehensive a plan so right now with the uh the draft policy statements that came out in the middle of August uh there's a public comment period that runs until October 7th and the Met Council has a public hearing tomorrow night and I guess my question for the council and what I'll do is briefly go over um significant changes to the policy statements that would affect Aon and then asking if you have any comments that you would like to submit to the Met Council um my original inent was to get this to the Met Council for tomorrow's public hearing at the Met Council um I'm going to anticipate that you would like to a little bit more information and that we would submit something prior to October 7th which G gives us about a week and a half or so so um significant changes so uh if you can see the screen here up up in the top left corner uh different communities are designated uh a type of community so in Dayton's case we are designated a Suburban Edge Community um which means that we're required to plan for uh four housing units per acre uh this is a change from 10 years ago where the threshold was between three and five units per acre so the intense is that we would have more density and and more likely smaller Lots um and my interpretation of this is more developments in our R3 District versus developments in our R1 District um and as Council may remember most of the developments have been coming in recent years have been in the R3 District uh currently we're developing about around 200 homes per year uh this consumes about 50 acres uh if you multiply that out over time it's about 500 acres per decade and a th000 Acres within the TW the 20-year uh comprehensive planning document so the question when you do all the calculations we've got roughly a 90 to 100 Year supply of land in front of us and uh the questions that the council is going to be asked through the comprehensive planning update is which of those th Acres or 500 acres are going to be developed within the next 10 and 20 years and so that's the task that will be asked in front of you uh when we updated the compreh comprehensive plan last time which I say last time was only 2022 when that was adopted and we have a sewer staging plan that roughly goes south to north and east to west um then we've had some discussions of are we going to continue to do that or is it going to be reged south to North or um and none of this is simple we'll have more complicated conversations about this I want to one minute break I just sent the council the I'm opening so if you want to see it on your computer I just wanted to send it to you so you can Poss it sorry didn't mean interrup no that was almost done uh as far as population goes so the Met council is forecasting a populations that uh by the year 2050 will be roughly around 16,000 um staff's opinion is we're probably going to grow more than that although we don't have the data to back up that change um there's no loss in AR doing that we're going to grow faster so um one of the the um results of having a smaller population forecast uh is the amount of affordable housing units that are assigned the I mean call it the allocation of affordable housing need that's assigned by the Met Council each Community uh the 2040 comprehensive plan we we were assigned about a need for about 1,200 units that's changed around believe was 250 so the intent here from the Met council is that we have zoning that has that allows higher density so that affordable housing can occur we don't necessarily have to provide it but we have to create an environment that would allow it to take place it's a lot easier to do 250 than is to do 12200 uh what else um this and I make I'm going to make this as a a note this isn't a change but in the Met council's policy plan there is no expansion of unsur development within the Musa it's not a change from our current plan um if you can see the slide to the left this is um the area of the Musa or Musa stands for Metropolitan Urban Services area so essentially it's the area that's going to be served the plan be served by uh metropolitan sewer by the year 2040 so if you look at Dayton we've got kind of a hole here uh much of this is Elm Creek Park but there there's also a lot of Farmland here uh the different shades are represent which decade sewer would be extended so um if you look around Dayton uh sewer is planned all around us and that is why Dayton is planned to be entirely sewer at some point in the future but not necessarily by the year 2050 or in this case it's 2040 um housing I'd mentioned um one of the the goals of the Met council is to have Mar this as sufficient land at a density of 10 to 12 units per acre to meet the city's allocation for affordable housing um I'm anticipating that much of this is probably going to be met in the discussions that we've had with the master plan so uh the master plan which we'll have an open house uh October 15th uh the intention is pred I'm going to refer to it as a new city center or new downtown area um that has enough rooftops to support the retail that our residents would like okay what else um so thoughts and this is piece together of comments that I've heard from the council is that there is a desire to have more rural development um and I'm defining that and trying to fit that within met council's parameters as um less than 10 acres um but more than a quarter acre lot um the way I think this is going to be Fred is by allowing a an average density of four homes per 40 acres does not necessarily mean 10 acre lots but it means the the same density as four homes per 40 acres there's quite I'm starting to run out slide so anyone has questions yeah um in in previous have a question sure was so we're classified Suburban Edge um my understanding is they're knocking those classifications down um we we are Suburban Edge currently emerging Suburban Edge emerg yes they they took one the words out right yeah they so okay um so those are immutable we can't adjust those we can't have any say in those right um we can ask but it's the Met council's decision so this lower uh the map on the lower left are is of other communities that are also classified as fonet so we have uh Ramsay the Eastern Rogers and Maple Grove as examples um the uh 4 per 40 density is uh consistent with a diversified rural which is I'm going to say the medium green color and so that would be similar to Western Rogers and corkin [Music] um as well as portion of Handover so that would be the next communities that are uh west of us did we ever get confirmation from them about that meeting about that basically that questions not yet so I have talked to them met Council staff they're well aware that um we're waiting for this response from can you refresh me a question you're referring to um during the meeting with met Council there was a discussion as to how the um what the split can be of properties that are still guided forward for low density but um we would do something within the meantime and the discussion kind of stumbled into acreage per house there was some questions about that so the one thing that I'd like them to look at too would be we have three Rs Park District that's um constantly buying more land in the city which is I'm not going say it's either a good thing or a bad thing it's just happening right we know they have this idea for having this green Corridor on the river which is happening um I want to make sure that's not going to work against us because I think Zach when I asked you about this you had said that last time we talked to them they said that we so include that in our densities and so I I would they need to take a look at that because it's not fair to hold us hold it against us that another entity that we have no control over is buying up land for the strict purpose of not developing it ever um so we can continuously guide it whatever we want but there's never going to be anything there and so if they want real numbers then they should really take the time and say okay we need to be able to remove that land from what we're doing otherwise they're never going to get the numbers that we want because we're just going to Zone it that is real moment so um I don't know what the new stuff is being like so like when they're purchasing property like the El Creek Park Reserve is removed because that's been there forever but the new stuff I don't know if they're classifying it because it's not technically part of el Creek Park Reserve it's a it's a different comp it's taken out so the density is based on N acreage land acreage is you know the gross Acres minus uh any water body wet lands um public lands or public ements and arterial ropes okay thank you I as them and they said yes so that's why I was isn't a lot of it out of the calculation already because it's guided as un sewered forever oh um yeah the ones a lot yeah and that's what they're buying up yeah for now well good I'm glad to hear that they aren't because that's different than what we talked about before so that's good to know that they aren't including that in the ation cuz that isn't good um have you gotten to the well I don't know if you're going to talk about this but the whole concept of an interim use uh what do they call it it interim land use and and I wanted so as a planner there's a whole difference between interim use permit and just an interim use um so no I I'm thinking that that's a newer term that I've not heard before uh so I'm expecting well that an explanation that won't come out in uh the Met council's response so just to for clarity um in one as part of the discussion that staff had with the Met Council was um if the Met Council would allow us to have 4 for 40 density um and with the assumption that those four homes would be an interm use so you're going to have yes you know whether it's an 8 acre or 12 acre lot that at some point when sewer gets available that property is going to be developed further and the regulations that the city uh creates is not going to prohibit that from being developed but you development might occur in decade you know decades from now okay so one thing I was going to mention in in trying to get a little bit prepped for this um they do have an online um tool for uh submitting comments it's sort of in a survey form but there's still room for you to add text to your comments and so I was was doing that um so some of my comments were already submitted that's perfect you're ahead of me um and I guess the flavor of what I was saying is is that I'm objecting to their increase in density that they're proposing for us and primarily because it's inconsistent with several of their land use objectives M um objective two and objective four specifically um speak to placing transit in areas well served by Transit bicycle and pedestrian INF infrastructure I'd like to know where that is in Dayton it's no um right so that's inconsistent and also um as it relates to U objective four where they talk about protecting restoring enhancing natural systems at all scale including reducing impervious Sur surfaces which I think is also inconsistent with higher density um so I flavored my comments kind of around those things uh so far so I guess a question for you is would you like me to draft a comments for the council's review or or would you like to have a separate uh discussion to look at everything like either I can try to do the work for you you can just view it individually or we can talk about this in a larger session I would personally I I think we should talk about it uh more because I'm sure I'm not coming up with everything that okay is inconsistent on my own here and uh I think that as a group we can probably do a better job of it there are probably more topics than you know what we're sure what you get through today so I'm not sure one we have time to do that but maybe what oh that's true October 7th right we might be able to do that on at the Planning Commission meeting you it might have some good input too um and we just post that there may be a quum of council members attending yeah sure yeah we can do that otherwise yeah we can mostly send something out in a in an email or something in an email form and respond back to that if you have any additional comments questions we'll do our best to address as many comments and questions as we can that we've heard so yeah but there is no council meeting between now and October my comment would be when this when met Council was brought into this deal there was an agreement made with the city of Dayton and met Council correct yes so now all of a sudden they want to change that agreement and apparently we don't have a whole lot to say about it however they're calling us Suburban IM Suburban Edge why can't we go to them and say hey because of this other agreement we want to be Rural Center so we keep our three units breaker we were identified as emerging Suburban Edge on the last comp plan and made no comment on it so in 2015 when the last comp plan was coming around there was no comment addressing that your exact comment so we were at one point Diversified rural or something another designation and it was determined that we need to move to an emerging Suburban Edge and there was no comment made back to the Met council at that time so they knew back then we were going to be Suburban this was in 2013 2014 time frame right that's what I'm getting 20 yeah so the 2040 comp plan the one that we're in we're operating currently right it was amendment made to that one when they were doing the exact same process doing now for the 2050 comp plan there was no comment made by Dayton at that time to stay at Diversified rural so they made the adjustment in the 2040 comp plan and perat council's rules you can't go backwards or it is very very difficult to go backwards from where you are let's make our own rule I mean my guess that's you can't argue with it but I'm saying I guess their their agreement is you will just follow what we're telling you right yeah but I don't know when that agreement you refer they're not paying the taxes right it was basically we brought them in 20 is that six five so okay so at that time we might have been to class by a divers rural they made the adjustment and change in 2013 or 2014 or whatever um and we made no argument against that they moved us and reclassified us with I think they probably noi us at that time but I don't know I wasn't part of staff so do we have any idea or um any here anybody if we can do didly about this in in court I I I I can't imagine anybody want with the four I mean like ELO has and work what that oh but Lake Elmo yeah that was a much bigger deal I know totally different deal Oak Roes beat them on a couple things I guess I'm specifically looking at densities the the change to the four the I what do they call it I they call it I interim use interim use inter yeah that guy I don't think we should because that ties us down it can tie us down a lot unless we um somehow get language in there that lowers what the expectation is even today um because if we say we're going to go to 40 an acre in there we can't we can't ever change that for anywhere without a complain Amendment and they're not going to okay a compl so I'm just saying that I that's a new section in the comp plan um I don't know if I don't there's just a few things in here that I'd like to find out if we can do so the whole policy document itself is about 1100 Pages yep takes a while to read so if you'd like I can send you try to find shorter summaries of each section and if you would like to submit comments um I'll put this on the planning commission's agenda for next week and you can kind of go over uh what comments there are so I'm hoping that uh the Planning Commission will have a light agenda yeah I definitely want to hear what the Planning Commission has to say I value there inut um I think we're all in agreeance that the four per acre is not what any of us want I mean we're three prer is what we're we're dealing with now and we're not super happy about that in a lot of cases and so um being forced move to four I I think I'm speaking for anyone is not what we're looking for at all no so let's move in the wrong direction I think you know yeah from there I think once you get planning commissions if you want to send out a recap mhm we can review it and get it back to you okay other comments okay and sorry that's only because I I don't know when we're going have time for a meeting between now that time and so why I would have loved to meet about I'm just being cogent of time and so I think it's something we can do the email and once you send the email out if we get back to you within a day or two it should be fine right yep does it have any more weight if we send it you know as a City versus us doing it individually I I think so I mean yeah the assumption is when when you're sending it individually you know you're not you're representing yourself not the whole Council um it do it it does but it when you create your user ID it does require you to identify yourself as a city council member there's some weight to it so yeah so I mean I I wasn't doing it anonymously mhm um but it did ask me if I had an affiliation with you know from a drop down menu menu and count city council was one of them so it is I am identified for my comments as as being a council member as council member okay can we do both collectively if we I don't think you can I think actually if you don't select um that you're on the council it ends a surve for you you can't go any further oh this is like anyone can submit comments okay but what I was saying is is does it hurt us if we do it as a city and then do it individually as well like is there's a there's no downside to that is there I certainly wouldn't think so I wouldn't think so either we should do both as a city it would be staff that's entering it and you all that are standing behind me tell me what to write yeah so it's more of a question on timing so yeah but I I think it's good that we we do both and it's probably good that we have the same message as a as a group so that way with they seeing from city saff is also what they're seeing from the people up here and there we're not all over the place cuz if we're all over the place what they'll end up saying is Well they can't even get their own stuff here look this person thinks that and this person thinks that and so having a consistent message I think is important I don't what I'll ask of you is whatever comments you'd like me to put in on behalf of the city is that you send me those by October 4th yeah I I was just going to say that I don't I I suspect n Only are the five of us probably aligned but every third tier suburb yeah yeah on the same page leave us alone but here we go okay um anything else so just to expand on that a little bit um individuals in in the city can respond to this as well is what it appeared to me that that anybody can make comments on it and uh I know we just got the communicator out now so it probably isn't another one coming before then maybe maybe on our website or on our app we could encourage people to go online and give their opinions yeah we can also do that if that's what the council's direction would like to be I agree with that yeah okay yeah we'll try to get something up on the website it should be able to get up by tomorrow [Applause] so right are we good I'm good okay on to item H DCM Farms thank you Mr Mayor this is a revised uh concept plan of DCM farms uh this was previously reviewed by the city council on June at the June 25th meeting um at that time the council has presented five different options for uh this project the developer has made some revisions and came back with uh one version um the whole project includes about 262 homes uh it's 59 single family homes and 2003 detached Town Homes um there's what is there four six different product types I believe I got a good head on um so the intention here is to have some discussion with the Council on on if there's any changes that you would like uh the Planning Commission did review this uh at this past month meeting and had a number of comments um it's hard to see I I've tried to kind of draw what those comments were uh on this map as far as realigning uh roadways and changing the lot layout of putting single family in some areas where there was uh previously detached Town Homes um and as well as a discussion having allowing for apartments uh in case there's too much commercial retail so this is kind of a very quick and dirty uh summary of plan commission comments one other item is the the commission had recommended opening up along the roadways opening up the view of different storm water ponds so that as you're driving down the street you can kind of see the open space that are between uh the uh housing developments um one note on or one big change if you remember in the five concept plans that were submitted uh one of them had Apartments here um that was taken away and replaced with detached Town Homes uh these are I believe mostly 40 foot um town homes with an Alleyway so this is a a backloaded garages this this would be fairly unique to Dayton uh but the developer is here to answer questions John can you back up a little bit what you were just talking about where were you at and say that again uh so in one of the the five concept ples this was there was an option of having all apartments and that's been removed and replaced with Town Homes oh on the top right M okay yeah the northwest corner um and then this block this is an Alleyway where there would be backloaded garages so along the um this is what these homes would look like so driving down the street uh the garages are on the back side of the house rather than than the front um also as far as elevation plans go and I know this is hard to for everyone to read um these would be the elevations for 40 foot 45t Lots uh 55t lots and then back to 40 again uh question I have if you look at the number of lots it says 262 but there's actually 273 Lots so does that mean there's going to be some Lots there that are not built on I kind of highly doubt that um and I personally just don't like the I mean this whole development is under 50t frage I just I I don't like like it personally uh it's it's a fire department's nightmare uh 5 foot side backs set setbacks I mean uh houses 10 ft apart I just I am not there if I could have my way I'd I'd be 30 or 40 ft apart but I can't I'm one one guy um I don't like all the Villas number one I mean it's way over the 30% um and where a lot of those were originally there was a plan with Apartments is that correct yes in the Northwest area well yeah I get that and I don't disagree it's just here we are yeah I mean what what we're doing is we're cramming them in as tight as we can to get as much value out of the I get that I understand it it's business I'm not downsizing you Tom um but this is just not what I would prefer to build I guess me personally now I'm not going to be here forever but at least until 2026 uh the the whole retail area I mean it's I like it I mean I I I think that adds up lot a lot of pizaz so I mean i' I'd take that piece of it with with 20 or 30 less homes and make them bigger I personally don't care it cost it doesn't bother me at all and should back you can't buy it you just work a couple more years longer so as a concept plan the intent is get individual comments from all the council members there's no no no formal approval or denial for got to mention that so John the the one the drawing um that you had up there a few minutes ago on page 48 yeah where did that access come from the yellow um um the top right the southeast that is that they they wanted to move the so the intention here is to align intersections uh so the original concept plan it was offset yeah that talking about the access behind those homes yeah so there has been discussion with those homeowners about allowing an easement possibly again not a connection just an easement long term so that they would be able to have a connection if they ever needed to not have X off of Fernbrook and that was intended to go straight down to 114th as it realigned so basically directly behind the homes would be basically an Alleyway that they would be able to access versus having to go onto FR Brook and accessing directly but because of the fact we don't want to have a connection point that close to the intersection essentially the planning submission comment was to do it there not saying the developer has offered that to say that I will provide an easement there so you could do that whenever you want to but um it's an actual connection there that's would be the tough part about getting them in and out if it was that close to that that still so they're not going to change their garages to make this worth for them I mean that's this is just right I mean they could like I said I understand that just but at a certain huge dollar amount you got to Y there's there is cost each one of those things but yeah again the the developer has allowed and said that they will do an easement and then this is the planning commission's comment of how to instead of having an easement directly straight up and down they just have a basically St little stub EAS mhm okay whether that's that big or that small it could be smaller yeah but it's basically just e right away it's not ped yes correct it's just to allow an access point long term so that those homes can stay there and if they can't allow or won't want access on to Fern Brook again that's up to the homeowners not up to us and to move the access further away from Fern Brook so that way you have more room when you're coming in so you don't turn in someone comes in behind you trying to take a right turn you slow down you get rended you got yeah the commissions I got from the Comm conversation so I mean this was one commissioner's comment of the intention that at some point those homes would redevelop yeah and so that stop would become rather than an Alleyway would be more would come in and then have a c sack mhm the only Advantage I see about that Alleyway is if you could get the post office to put the mailbox over there otherwise there's just nothing there's no benefit to them well even if you don't even do the allei way now you could put a walking path there it could just stay grass for just go along was to at least there right sewer sewer access yeah so yeah in that easement there will be allowed a sewer and a water access to get sewer and water to those homes that's corre okay come yeah come eventually um um so name and address please I Tom Dean 1261 from Brook Lane Dayton so I think the this dry here was based off of comments from from uh the Planning Commission and it had a lot of very good good conversation I'm not saying I agree with all of them um so for instance the road coming through I said hey I think you know it's it's probably all right if you move it over then to find out after talking to my engineer uh that's not really a good design to drain the pond that would be this Pond here you look what they call emergency overflow that street kind of eliminates that now it doesn't mean could we not overcome it but um it's another yeah it's it's it's something like look I do know we've had uh a lot of of um conversation with the residents on Fernbrook you know um you know I command uh Zach and uh John for for getting the residents together and we've there's a couple of them here we have we've met multiple times after the the first concept meeting we had um they're not in favor of having that easement in the middle to their property what we've kind of you know um before Andy Ed that coming out from I would give them an easement that if they ever wanted to put just an alley for their six homes right no nobody else okay currently but uh you know after that discussion has been that you know many of them are on their second septic site there isn't another alternative and if we're going to go and do the project um is there an option for them to be hooked up to sewer and water not all of them need it now but I think they all understood that it does make long-term um sense to do that so if they did that um you know at least that would be taken care of for them couple them have young families it doesn't even matter the age was to move that walking path adjacent to their Lots although they did you know want some extra uh buffering they did you know hope to have the 65 ft wide Lots along there just so you know it kind of Blends a Little Closer to their homes um and I think it just gives them an option to who knows what happens with the County Down the Road would they do something by their house is it nothing um but they would have an option that they could put an alley in um you know I don't I don't think any of them are looking to do that immediately leave their driveway where it is and you know maybe right now traffic's pretty fast if we put a roundabout there nobody's driving 60 by their house you know and so maybe access on and off the road would be would be easier so it was It was kind of looked at as is that just uh you know it's an option and maybe those homes don't ever change you know but but it'd be foolish not to at least look to bring them sewer water and at least give them some ability to get access off the road down you know in the future if if they desired and and that would really be their choice I don't want to force anything on them right are you able to help I don't know if they want this help get their mailboxes is off of that road and into your development instead so that way there's they don't to cross the road I don't know if that's if something they want or not but I know we've heard in the past Crossing that road to get the mail is a big to-do do you have to cross the road currently already okay all right I I was going to say I think yours is already over on your side right okay yeah I mean never mind sure you know yeah all the new neighborhoods have joint mailboxes but it would be quite a bit further walk for them yeah so we had had that discussion okay so no if they're not crossing the road then it's not an issue we've just heard that people on Fir Brook and I don't apologize I don't know exactly what your mailboxes are so okay right so I think uh then it would go to housing you know stock um I mean at first been hearing hey would you know and been here listening right you want to figure out how you can get density to the South to save it to the North I came the first me and said you know I proposed an apartment I I really have zero desire to to do an apartment I don't I don't build Apartments but if you want to look at the concept there it was right um so then then we came back and looked at I don't think anybody up here at the council but there was you know maybe some residents um unhappy about the town homes so I thought hey instead of of a town home to to use that narrower lot um and I think actually looking after you know I drove past up to you know uh what is that Zachary on your way over to Costco and and looked at that house and said hey maybe maybe up on that uh Northeast you know Corner that would you know you'd get nice looking houses on Fernbrook not just garages you know and do the alley load and so we presented that I think in the center um right like right in the middle um you know you got the alley there'd be on the outside side obviously maybe some houses at one have facing behind um an alley but at least all the the the views off of Fernbrook the heavily traveled Road would would be that alley load and it kind of seemed to fit in there pretty nice um the the other change maybe is and um John you you go back to the Planning Commission so in the center where it says single family single family or Villas you know kind of in between the two streets off of 113 those 45t wide Lots I would propose those in and op lar that as a single family house not a villa um but yet down in the bottom uh left corner or southwest corner I would see those Villas um you know it's typical of what we're putting up on Sundance by the clubhouse right now uh and then maybe some of the other 55s are a single a single family home uh just doing that over the the 65s is a way to get density and not and I think you know if you have all those homes you know the town homes you have at least four houses at the same color you know they're the same here you're going to have four that are different you do get a little space in between so you know that's that's as really looking for your comment you know and and I guess that's why the concept plan if it if it doesn't agree um um then then you know we we we look at something different but it kind of seemed Odd as it didn't like you know there was some Planning Commission members that didn't prefer the 45s wanted to see that Center 65s but then wanted an apartment building you know so it seems kind of like well I want more density but I don't want more density it's right across from the street um what what is the density here do we know uh I I it's about 2.9 I thought and I think it's 3.2 if you cuz would remove the commercial piece and not considering any apartment you know so 91 Acres but it' really be 81 maybe it's about 88 so you're you're getting into that you know just slightly over three um I guess the one thing for at least me as a developer I would prefer to you know the con the obviously to come back on on the commercial area you know I I do think uh a you know gas station of a you know quick trips build superet something that offers a lot of grocery you know the conveniences would make sense there I think at daycare those are two buildings you know properties that I do think makes sense for that area um I I guess I'd like to say the option is if if we went through and and couldn't fill the commercial with a different building then maybe to come back with an apartment I don't know know if I'd really like to be handheld to it but if say we come back and it's a year or two and that doesn't look like there's a use that would fit well for that property maybe it is an apartment I guess if that's the way to go but currently I'd like to to to leave at least that piece you know I guess I'm not saying that I'm against it but I'm just leave it optional flexible so you're talking about right behind the um country man location is really my my dad house kind of in the rner there yeah so so the so for me just a couple of comments I I much prefer the Villas to the idea of putting apartments in there um I think that you you get some density that way I I kind of like the way they look if we're if we're going for density I don't think that's a bad a bad look um and so I would I like the way that you've got that northeast corner Now versus what was in the earlier concept plan with the potential for an apartment there um you know I I thought the alley was a good idea but um here maybe it's not as important so I'm not sure where where to land on that um you know it seemed to me like it it made sense to get get some of the the existing residents and other out rather than jumping on the Fernbrook but uh agree the roundabout if that goes that that will slow things down especially right through there that would make some make it easier to get a in and out uh the other the other thing I wanted to comment on and now I'm making to many messy notes here um we go with this well I'll find it and we can come back to me so one other note too is is I would um um you know similar to to across street all the you know I know city ordinance is front elevation LP or Hardy siding this would require foresighted architecture and foresighted LP or Hardy yeah I remember that coming up at the Planning Commission I like like that idea and obviously probably a lot more you know more thorough landscape plan and all that but I think just in the concept it would would be you know to um you know that doing that and you say you want it all 65s then we really wasted wasted all that time but I do know the architecture no matter what goes up there you know we'll we'll want um a little bit more rigid standard than what the city Cod is yeah the other the other piece that they did want to mention was around the commercial area and and I think there were some comments at the Planning Commission that they didn't like the sort of country style to the the concept that was in there I know it was a quick trip that was shown in the pictures that we've got and that's not necessarily the case but for me personally I thought that was um sort of honoring the history of the area a little bit and and uh I thought it made for a good look and I think I think the architecture is probably more of um you know brick all all around it maybe not a farm looking building but do you have in the center you know is is it that old farm tractor is it you know a combination of each you know would would I think would tie tie nice but I think um also look at maybe just the architecture to go long term you know what would it would it be so I like the nod to sorry you do I like the nod to the the farming piece and what was there I think it's a good thing um the roundabout I think is great I think it's going to help that road a lot and I think it's one of the um there's a lot of great features I think it's one of the top features of this whole project in my opinion cuz I think it's well needed um on the commercial space I like that there's a plan B option which I what I watch the Planning Commission took away from is like hey if you can fill it off commercial fantastic no one's going to be upset about it um but if you can't having a good plan B is important so I think I I can hear you that you're thinking through that which I think is good um I've knocked on every door down um in Sundance woods and Sundance greens and I can tell you that they would love um a gas station nearby a coffee shop nearby and a pizza place nearby because supposedly you can't get any mainstream pizza places delivered down there um and so that's what that's what they've given me for feedback when I've talked to them down there because I've tried to ask them what do you think of commercial um and what do you think is what would you like to see there the Kinder Care was the other one or some kind of daycare um would also be really good as far as the spacing I you know I I get Scott's comment they're really close um a lot of these are Villas which is when you look at the the number of units and the than the lot more Villas and in our neighborhood the Villas are super close too um Villas look really nice when they're done well um versus a uh maybe they have a different look than a town home does but get you close to the same density and so I think if they're done properly they can look really nice um and I'm I'm I'm okay with the Villas doesn't bother me at all I have no preference whether it's Villas or apartments I would never want to see Row Apartments like you had in there but I look at um like right on Fernbrook and 8 one there's that one I think it's like a dark blue apartment building there or even in Champlain what they did over by um Shoreline or whatever that is yeah the the amphitheater they have there that apartment building I think looks really nice I think it it plays well Zach had mentioned to me that they're getting really good rents for that and the city's been getting good feedback so I'll leave it to you I'm not I have no preference one way or the other but I think there's a way to do that that isn't um what was shown in that original picture um cuz that I'm not for at all just same page yeah and I think that's that was just a different concept right where they have the big community building and and and that was a lot larger just a whole chunk right where if if you had an apartment you know in that commercial end it isn't as great in size but I think if you're going to an apartment I think it makes more sense to do it on the the southide near the commercial um because especially if you can get some sort of small grocery store that's like a Jensen's foods like they have in Champlain or it's a Phil Su red or whatever gets everything within walking dist right so you want those people to you within a walking distance of that um I don't know anything about condos but I don't if you consider condos being near the golf course and all of this as well so I don't know if that has something you've considered again I have no preference I'm just throwing it out there or something that may be a good way to kind of meet in the middle between a different product that we don't have and densities those kind of things and I I'll uh I'll you know I've been researching just just as recent I don't have enough information but you know on the Sundance greens we have that 55 Senior are and I haven't really marketed but we have the service but that apartment just you know everybody I'm hearing nobody's building apartments right now but one of my qu you know thoughts as I'm research and come back to you was a 55 plus like a condo you know where you have ownership and it yeah so those are my thoughts on it I appreciate the feedback from from the commissions and the Eda on this um so thank you for that I listen to them and watch them so it's appreciated and uh yeah and so when you let's say you come in with preliminary on this what goes what ends up going into the commercial area I mean John do we do we kind of wall that off as far as what we're doing or part of either it's one big Outlaw or it's several smaller outlots but typically but when it's it's developed will that be a separate plat um so it would be an addition onto this PL so okay I'm going to make an assumption the commercial is not going to go at the same time as a residential my my assumption is it's it's a big out lot and then as as the plan refines and that we're going to come back and have these same discussions you know Jud off interest yeah so then we can start looking at things such as lighting and all the all the other business but basically it's going to be an outlaw for for this okay why with all these Villas how are we only at 3.2 I mean I'm just I I I was just taken roughly you know if you if you took um I guess I didn't re recount the number up but I was just saying roughly 265 divided by you know 90 um that doesn't even I think it did 83 884 you know it doesn't they say the commercial area is um 10 acres but there's already like two something from Sundance greens that was asked to be left commercial so I think think out of 81 and I don't have the math actually when I seen these numbers I just was doing it right here in the room and so you know I think it's roughly you know even if you took 270 times you know uh 80 8 uh 8 off that what 83 you know 83 84 Acres what that roll roll into it says right in here that the gross density is 2.9 though maybe that's a typo but that's but what matters is the net density and we we don't know what that is so yeah so miror ccil the gross density includes everything like St mot ponds roads and everything so that's why it's at 2.9 when you actually do net density you remove the roads you remove the storm water ponding so it'll make it I'm going to guess it's probably around 3.8 3 I was going to say I didn't know you had to remove that I didn't know that if you hold out the ponding then correct that's not it's net density that we have to go off of not gross density so here's here's my my other deal with the density I I think at least my thinking was that if we could build some of this density in the South we could Bank it so to speak but it's very clear from what the M council is doing is there's no banking they're they're not going to give you they're not going to so we we will be stuck with this for per acre unless we can fight it but regardless what we do anywhere else yeah so the M council's intent is that we're planning in a 10year that was the other thing that I and I don't know that everybody caught that um but it's no longer a 40-year plan it's a 10-year plan really correct because you have to balance the the densities in that decade and it used to be you could put Apartments that's cuz they got burned by other cities right that said they do it and never did it and so now they're like nope it's got to happen de I can hold them more accountable here and yeah that's just yeah so you are you are correct mayor that um that is not switching from being a total plan to being a 10-year decade plan and we have to balance the densities out within that decade frame um which means yeah you cannot put a power buildings in 2050 but yet have low density currently in 2030 sorry just for my own question but let's say it had to have you know let's just say it was three in this decade and you had three .5 just simple math here you could do another project at two and a half then and weigh them up as long as they're in the same decade you can do it with a new comp plan again this is the new comp plan 2050 comp plan not the current 240 comp plan so at the at the time it since today if we were to build density into this currently current plan using the DCM Farms concept we could then bank that and use it for someplace else currently we just couldn't do it in the 20150 plan once that becomes effective does that make sense yeah so today it works in five years years no that's correct five ISS year whenever we about the plan um your you your judgment is the is the um fill Market just as going just as well as the single family so I think um I would say yes bill has been so I'll give you an example of of uh am I just came into the golf course in their ninth Edition um you know we're working on the 11th or the ninth was only 12 Lots but they only opened their model up in in beginning of August or somewhere in August um they're really sold out there and they have a lot of people waiting on the 11th so the interest is there I think maybe to answer the question to be to be honest like on dollarwise got the 45 foot wat is a lot less than a 65 so the dollar like for revenue for me isn't really that great a difference where um where it's more is it just but it does get that lot less and it's just trying to afford you know more affordable it's you know it seems like under that 500 number is a pretty critical you know critical number for people now if interest drops does it change some but I think it I think it's two things it's just not hey as a developer I'm gramming them in um personally I was listening some to the council as seemed like a density would prefer South uh because I know some of the other areas right looking to do rural Lots but I think there is some afford affordability aspect too that you know what is affordability you know and and now with um um you know we build too and besides Lumber there's nothing that's come down in in building so what is what is affordability you know but to me it seems to be now that you know at least in in this area close to the cities it's you know 4 to 500,000 is pretty affordable you know a lot of those those town homes are you know High threes so just crazy to think where we've come in 20 years I Nature's Crossing going in there half million was half million you were getting a house and a half like yeah yeah yeah those would be million doll houses now so I I don't know I so the percentage of billas here is what I think I think I think I probably toig cuz I'm taking the center part as a 45t l and and considering that's going to be uh a single family house they're mowing their own grass they're do you know all that on that where I have some 55s that are Villas right they're look more for the retirement person one level patio homes so the packet says there's 273 homes in total y 59 divided by 273 means 22% of them are single family homes the rest of bills yep based on the packet which it's going to shift a little bit but just for refence and I think where you want to look if you took the center spot I want to say there's 53 right in the middle there of that are 45s but I would you know identify as as you know um I don't know where you want to go to the Villa I kind of look at the Villa as little more Associated maintained everything's taken care of I don't maybe it's lot with for you know for the city I'm I'm not sure but it's possible to take those 45s and make them 55 you're just going to give up lots it's possible to go to 55 it's and that's why that's why I really we're sitting I've been really open the whole time going you know let's let's look I mean uh you know my history of building I would have been if you could put them all in 80 and get people to buy them it'd be great I just it's not they want but if if it's the council's wish to have have wider Lots then I think that's why we're here and and well that that that would be my feeling on the deal but that 45 is to 55 well to get this whole thing is uh right now it's under 50 the entire development yeah I I mean to me if the whole thing was 55 to 60 I'd be much happier about it and Tom said it himself did 55 or 45 the or 65 or 45 the cost of the lot is not that big a deal but somehow it must be because we're trying to push as no I I think if you look you can get more for a 60 what 65 foot wide lot than a 45 they're not the same right you're not selling for the same so the deal on the 45 is that lot does come down in cost and so then it you know just factors into the affordability of the house that that was my point I I personally don't look at the affordability side but that's me yeah I guess I'd be happier with moving a lot of the 45s to 55 um bill as I I get I you talk to those people and they love the fact that they do nothing right yeah it's taken care of yeah and I think I think what what you find is like if the reason you know whether it's a 45 5050 or whatever so when you get into the town homes right so the homes are less money but by the time you take all the associate maintain right you know even in when they're four homes together more affordable but they're not mowing the grass they're not shovel in the snow take those fees you know you can move into a smaller narrower lot and take that price and and that although it's more than the town home for affordability to the fire it's close because they don't have all these HOA fees I when I when I see people using the Villas in our neighborhood they're not using the sidey yards they're using the front yards usually to put extra flower gardens or Planters up in the back they're using their patio and their backyard if they've got pets they're in the backyard so um it's because there is no side yard well yeah but but my point is if you added five more feet in the side I don't know if it's going to make a difference or they're going to use the side those 5et you know cuz that this just isn't it's just I have no preference it's a unique product in my mind so if you take the the down right you know usually the the the um you know usually the HOA documents I'm not going to say all they change right you know your dogs on a leash G you're although it's green space it's shared you don't you know run where you know where I would stay in these centers even on these narrow Lots if somebody wants to put an invisible fence in and their dogs in the back you know or they want to put a playground that in the back they can do it on these it'll be a separate Villa for the homes in the separate HOA for the Villas and the homes correct yeah so it usually work will be a master right and then you know everybody has their part so you take the Villas and where everything's maintained they pay a different fee than but it's all under one HOA board uh yes I would recommend separating them out Y for the Villas and the single I think the Villas I do think they have their boards the town homes definitely have separate boards but there's also a board that runs the whole the whole master so you know they'll be there'll be the bike trails they'll be the pwns they'll be the monument you know I get it yeah just from experience I would tell you have the HOAs be separate for the completely separate for the Villas and the single family homes and I know it's Sunday on screens you know those those town homes have a separate yep separate board cool that's all well no I'm just kind of reacting generally I'm I'm usually always in favor in in bigger lots and wider setbacks I just think with the spill a kind of product it you know it works better for the people that want to buy them to not have that and I also think it speaks to to some variety that we're not getting in a lot of the proposals we see in terms of housing types and and so it's more attractive to me because of that that there is more than more than the one type of house that's going to be going in there you know we always joke about the 50 Shades of Gray that that come into a lot of these places and and this would this would break it up some I think that along with the sort of the neighborhood commercial I think it makes it kind of a unique neighborhood and you know I'm I'm coming around to it I I'm I'm kind of liking this plan I guess is my overall reaction you have any comment about the 45 to 55 or is that yeah for you it's you know it'd be better if it was but you know I don't know how to move all the the pieces around on the map I'm not an architect so it's hard for me to visualize what that would do in the plan I don't either I I can look into and so I'll put some thought and talk to staff obviously before we come back look and if if you know maybe maybe maybe in that time if you guys on mind I'd reach out to you guys email too look at that yeah I I at some point um you're probably going to get tired of concept plan so well I mean I next one I want to go forward right are and I think if I can tweak it a little bit sure I sure sure you know sure we try I I think you know I think it worked great the last one you know just having you know there was a couple of those plans that obviously were like hey those aren't you know aren't going to work or they're they had had uh you know parties that weren't happy with it so I think this was was well and I think uh like this discussion here is great and I think you know Planning Commission had great discussion and so I do see you think this this proposed road that the Planning Commission was looking at is problematic or just right now my I I told my engineer CU I said hey no big deal I mean instantly out of his mouth where's way emergency over you know so and that was simply to correct the stackup or the yeah MH okay um I think it looks better on the drawing that we got for the stackup purposes if it's possible but I I recognize and I think I've had some discussions with John you know maybe coming in the commercial area all needs to go down to that first Crossroad right come in there and come in the back way too you know and and just instead of having put a ton thought into that or maybe it's how you got to enter in then you can enter out you know only going outright or something you know the flip side of that may be response times and emergencies because you're moving the entrance then all the way down to go all the way back but I don't do that for a living so look at the Chiefs on that one to see if that matters or not and and there isn't there isn't a lot of of traffic you know so the road road does connect Cru and that first road is is just a right in yep and then as you're coming back out you'd have to go over to the intersection yeah okay you know and I think I think I know a couple of residents here would like that perfect and that's because the median was going to get that far yeah yeah oh okay yeah yeah we have the median in there and and you know some some landscape okay as it is how at least first intersection and I think that was a discussion point to and in the Planning Commission they were concerned to say can you you know have that up to that point so okay anybody else any have any more so I had some questions on some of the check boxes stuff but sure that was I don't have that on the slides but that's in the staff report um well there needs to be four and there's only two at this point and it's maybe we can at some point talk about this but um a lot of those were redone at uh between groups so sure it just seemed like there's already a lot of Park dedication in here how much over is this um I I don't know so just to to give an explanation so this project is going to be a PL unit development and just for the sake of comparison the these check boxes that are in the staff report are for an R3 District so you think of the R3 as sort of a baseline um the plane unit development just what these out of that how PUD is intended to do is that the developers allowed to do something different than what the city code allows in return for I'll say a higher quality development and then the council has to decide what does that higher quality be you you look for more Park dedication are you looking for um more Landscaping more buffering you what is the tradeoff okay and so and I think um you know I see I see one of the big at least for me is it's it's bringing a commercial aspect right and and I don't know to me that's a positive app you know I've lived in Dayton time right we've had just rain tree you know and I think uh it's just not only my velopment there's you know the 117th development there's there's probably others that will happen and and ultimately if you get a c City Center or something long term right that's probably your main focus but you got to drive the sewer and the road right it's that's not happening tomorrow so I see personally I would see a fair amount of houses maybe Beyond this before that happens and so what's this the The Fill Gap you know and I think it will still always be you know burnbook roads probably you know always going to be traffic on it it's going to and maybe even if you look to Maple Grove right and just go they have on the other side of the creek all that development and yes it can all go south but maybe some people want to get out of the Trap and go back the other way you know so I I do think it could be a a you know fairly thriving commercial area I also think the golf course I know the golf course I mean there I have friends that come from Brooklyn Park to go golfing every Friday in a league right so you're going to extra traffic that's going down there anyways it's going to help drive that commercial space as well so yeah it's been exciting we've been now into really now really making the start of our when with the 11th Edition our our final nine hole you know and and layout and so there were some greens dug up and things but I you know you can start you know people seeing how it really come out and and uh and so that's been really you know pleasing to see that response but okay if I knew Susie wouldn't have to would not show up for work while I'm sitting on Red Lake fishing yeah I'd put a poli Pizza in there for sure but I am not going to give up fishing for BL Pizza uh anybody have any other questions no do you think you have enough I go over some specifics so do do you have I I should say do you have any questions for the council or any direction that you need yeah so I I think just the last I would have is is what I'm what I'm hearing is you know if if I came back forward just this plan it it would work for everybody W it won for Scott I want I want them wider I I yeah I think the 45 I'd like wider too but I mean if we really are 3 I mean I I don't understand why we want to go to 3.8 when it's not going to benefit us at all but I mean we get nothing for it other than satisfying met Council and I really don't care about met counsil myself that's me I mean the residents in this city don't want more development they want I think they want less from what I'm what I hear but um Okay so as far as I would I would get this develop development up into the 55t wide overall but that's me so right now I think you're looking at a two to three that way okay all right I don't know and and and and I will back you know come back I just don't know off the top of my head going hey we we can do this and I'll look and and maybe you know come if you can widen up some Lots that' be help that's what I would say I think you're close and that road that the plan commission so it sounds like what you're saying is you may have to do because it seems like that road is pretty beneficial to traffic flow yeah um it's not so beneficial I mean it looks like it's going to take out a couple Lots at least um yeah but and it's got a the problem of your engineer mentioned but okay so for this project is large enough that it will require an eaw that's a 6 to seven month process um I think the expectation is the EA would be reviewed or approved at the same time as a prelimary PL so the thought is um when Tom submits for that like um you know 32 support needs to be 32 not 23 so what Tom needs is uh to know is what the support is for this plan as it is or what do you want that I is actually referring to two to three as the 45 to 55 but yes right now sounds like what would uh opinion be like if we took some of the 45s and you mixed 55s and amongst them what would be like marketability for some like that I mean I kind of thought about that a little earlier but I didn't know how that would kind so so the house is that if you if you look at you know the lard homes those are some of those homes are 2500 plus square fet right right so they're fairly I mean fairly decent size for on that you know what I mean and and where it's an affordable um but now what if you took and you put a third stall on it right more you're you're not going to get a third stall on a 45 foot wide B right so and I don't know I'm just thinking that I'm a proponent of the third stall so if you can get them on every lot I'd make me a happy camper cuz everyone I talked to those two stalls wishes they had today right they don't have storage anywhere El yeah it's just how it works so yeah you you know but I'll I'll look and go back so I think you know we have somewh and our development is mix we've got a twocc car next to a three car next to a two car so I don't see it being a major problem they're inter from what I've heard from the council at least in the past is that you'd like to have the mixed type of product within itself just because it breaks it up and doesn't make it look so monotonous so I think that's a good comment and and so that's a little bit of you know could have we took that Center and came in with the town homes right and then you know every fourth is or you know four of them look the same right because you have four houses and and what I do like is I look at here as I I look and say we have 65 uh foot wide you know we had uh 55 Villas we probably had 55 singles 45s you can call bills I'm I'm call singles and then I would say we had the 40 foot wide alley home right so that's that's a multiple different product you know and I think I think that product like if you just went to to Sundance right we started that town home that you know now is$ 375 but you go to the back it's a you know 1.2 $1.3 million house would have that difference here but I do think it helps that absorption it can fill through the project you know looks more um you know it's more desirable I think for some people coming in cuz you just see it you know look more driving fing okay but I think I got a direction to go that answers sounds good okay right all right thank you thanks time okay item High fit good evening mayor and Council um this is a project that Danielle has been uh running with um so I'll do my best to present for her um uh this was uh something that came to us um through an Outreach in a um email um it's uh a national run uh uh program um and we were looking for something uh that was different um as far as amenities that we don't have in Parks currently and there's been some direction from uh the Parks Commission over the years that they want to have different amenities um and this one came to us and we felt like this was going to be a good fit um so Danielle did some initial um corresponding with the the the company and um we found out that there's some grants available for some of this um uh Blue Cross Blue Shield have uh donation part of this up to $50,000 in grant funding for the individual uh Parks I think they fund 10 of those so um you have to uh apply for those and if you're lucky you can get that Grant so um what we're looking for uh from the council tonight is you know um some guidance if this is something that we should pursue U we did present it to the Parks Commission and they were very favorable about this um they felt like it would be a good addition to um our Parks um there have been a couple of sites identified I think the one that we would like to go for is in clo Park um it'd be a good fit for there it's uh on a trail um it's in a heavily used area there's some Park in there it's very visible from the road those kind of things um the idea would be to try and fund as much of this from Grants um so we would like to start reaching out to um grant opportunities and maybe some sponsorship from companies like semstone if we could get them to supply the uh the concrete and those type of things um this would be um a candidate for uh funding through the henin County Youth Sports Grant um we would like to try and get a grant application in there pretty quick here I think they close in the first week of October um so we've started putting in some stuff together if uh we want to go for that route the maximum gr for this uh type of equipment with hening new sports is $300,000 so we could uh potentially cover a substantial amount of that from that Grant um so that's kind of the the short and sweet on this um if you think it's worth us uh pursuing this then we can go forward with that did she talk about like any like activities program being attached to this so the sit's used kind of like on a regular basis is kind of the element I was thinking of like we can put this out there and like you know you build them maybe they'll come but like I'd like that element to be attached kind of somehow to a role yeah I think that'd be definitely something to do with you know Danielle's role would have filled that in with somebody that we from community that can bring people to that yeah some outdoor yoga facility you know classes that type of thing as well yeah there's also it I don't it talks about it well here but there's an app that you can download and it will walk you through how to do like a 7 Minute Workout or 15minute workout or something like that so you can have someone have an app that kind of walks you through how to use it which is helpful too mhm I like the idea of it I just look at myself and go would I use it how about you Amy I don't think 5% of the people in this city would use this thing it it might be closer to 2% there's somewhere else we can put the energy in yeah to me to me a uh I'm going to fire in here I just don't see out at the 10,000 people in this city I'd be shocked if aund of them used it uh Teresa had a exercise thing going on at the community center and I don't think there was five people there ever mhm um to me before I would I mean I guess if you get it for grant money and 100% of it is grant money then go ahead and build it but I couldn't see putting any City money into this thing at all and it says that the uh the budget hit is going to be 150 to 217,000 Bucks yeah there's no way I would I would approve spending that kind of money for two or three or 100 people I mean you put a splash pad in Central Park and every kid in this area is going to be at that Splash Pad you can put it next to this and then they could work out and then oh yeah I mean I'm just thinking the scope shouldn't be necessarily our borders like this is going to attract other people is probably the same reason sh where's the next nearest one to us sh I think that you know we have been approached by people on the park commission about doing outdoor yoga and stuff like that so there is an element of people out there that want to do these outdoor activities and I I don't disagree there's going to be some but I mean the amount of use it's going to get you're catering to under 5% of the people where the dollars are way way more beneficial in a splash pad I just well I mean if we can uh look at the funding options first before we write it off I think that would be positive way to go I agree with you on that one important and I I also I'm you know worried now given the other news with Daniel leaving who's going to who's going to carry this thing um forward it sounds like there's some urgency to some of these applications yeah and so you know is it even possible to get this done at this point in time I think that we can get the hopin Youth Sports Grant in um we got a lot of the information pulled together so we could get that application we there's a template that we use for that so I think that we can do that one pretty quickly and then we could start the Outreach to other companies around here that may be willing to you know participate in some form on this and the Blue Cross yeah Blue Cross Blue and so I I'm sorry go ahead yeah go on I say I I think we should try to get the grants and see what they come in at and then make a decision from there I think that makes it a lot because if it comes in it can cover the whole thing it makes the decision really easy right so I think I think that's what we should be my only concern there would be we put this thing in and it would collect proverbial dust and now everybody's looking at an isore that you know whoever funded it um they're not going to they're not going to look at it and say oh that was gr money they may look at it and say what were they thinking I I just I look at this not I I see something that people are not going to use six months out of the year you definitely there wouldn't be nobody there that's what they build for it just seems like there's energy we can put energy somewhere else but I don't know it is if grants covered it all that that would change the equation a little bit but I I still worry that we're buing is something that was just going to need maintenance four years I think the company would help us Market this and do all that good stuff as well so I think that would be a key part of this I mean I think the one you know shcked they put in was very well attended at least for the opening and stuff so you know we could check in with how that is going with those guys as well yeah I like the idea of it I think there's more to be uncovered so I would I would task whoever with exploring more about it okay well we will dig into this and look at what grant opportunities there are and we will get back to you thanks Mary all right thanks item J resoning 13521 Nome Creek Road all right Mr Mayor members of the council uh item before you today is a zoning map Amendment for 11321 Elm Creek Road uh the request is to rezone the property from A1 uh agriculture to R1 single family residential uh really this stemmed from a permit application that was submitted um for a demo of the existing home on the site and uh subsequent building of a new one on uh the property uh it turned out in our review that uh the proposal didn't meet the 14 or the 10% uh maximum in the A1 um and being that it doesn't meet any of the A1 minimum requirements uh for any of the lot standards um the uh request is to reson it to R1 and you can see in the table let see here if I can utilize this I put this table together just to show you that um the existing lot does meet all of the minimum standards in the R1 um and the Planning Commission held a public hearing on September 5th and unanimously recommend approval and as such staff is recommending the same any questions yes so I'm I'm curious why why just the one lot when I'm looking at the zoning map there's two adjacent properties surrounded by uh all R1 and so why why just I mean I understand the need for this particular lot for for it to be rebuilt but it just seems odd to me to just take this little slice and not the not that section we'd have to individually do them anyway yeah so I I I suspect property only is you reone without their request there would be here and wondering what we were doing I think I think that's fair I mean I'm not trying to circumvent a process I'm just I just think it looks odd it'll look odder sure to have just that one sliver um there and then the the two egg properties on on the side and everything else around it is R1 right yeah to the um mayor's Point really uh did come down to uh property owner consent for resoning request um that these property owners have submitted an application for that and that the existing A1 lot surrounding it including this one in its uh existing condition um is still legally non-conforming to the zoning ordinance um those surrounding Lots would continue to maintain that nonconformity status yeah so Mr Mayor and council member foran so you you're bringing up a good point so you know if you look at a zoning map from 50 years ago it probably everything was Zone agricultural other than the Village um not every parcel is farmed so you think of the egg District as being intended for Farmland but we have many um smaller size Lots where it's not practical to farm so there's a bigger discussion of should these smaller Lots be zoned A1 or should they be reson of R1 from A1 to R1 and it's probably a a good discussion for number another time but it's a good point to bring up so it's not something we probably thought about when we're writing the staff report and I will say that that was noted by the Planning Commission as well that there were there's a number of non-conforming lots in the A1 District currently and I think that uh as of somewhere around 10 years ago the uh request from A1 changed from I think the 10 acre minimum was part of the zoning ordinance at one time and then was subsequently changed to 40 okay any other questions all right any a motion I'll make a motion to approve I'll second Dave any more discussion all those in favor say I I all those opposed say no no motion carries 5 to zero um on to item K good evening mayor and councel um we're looking at the EA that was prepared for the Dayton Parkway neighborhood development um just want to note I also Matt Summers is here he's a Stam Tech employee that helped with the review and the of the eaw and the preparation with that and I see that the uh developer has representatives in the audience as well if there's specific questions so the project is located I'm sure folks are well aware in the very southwest corner of the city uh right next to the Dayton Parkway interchange F I94 um sorry you have the presentation so you can see yep so the the lower left of the screen shows an aerial a current aerial of the property you can see it is not at all developed it is all open space as it sits today so these are the definitions of um of an eaw I guess and then also an Eis so the purpose of an eaw is to collect basic information and identify basic information on a project and identify potential environmental impacts and from that determine if an Eis an environmental impact statement is required for the project to investigate further so uh an eaw can be seen as maybe the first pass if you will to see what there might be involved and then an e would be ordered if it were the impacts were significant or or concerning and it would need additional additional study um just a note uh in the definition here it calls it a brief document um if you saw the separate email that went out is a 354 page brief document so that could probably indicate what involves we have to take a deeper look at it so that um so I won't go through all of these uh certainly but um the eaw document itself it asked 20 questions um that are identif or answered based on the proposed project um regarding impacts that are listed on the screen here so a lot of water um but um transportation noise visual historic properties land cover um kind of looks at all aspects of it from an environmental standpoint so the process itself is the eaw is deemed required um this could be triggered by by uh State rules um based on the sides of the project or it can be ordered or um initiated by the rgu which is the responsible government unit in this case the city um so once it's underway the project proposer the developer will provide the information of the project they're doing uh they'll submit that to the city and then the city will work to develop that project whether the city does that or the developer does it or it's both together we'll develop the ew adding information to answer those questions based on the the proposed project once the aw is deemed complete and I'll all involved parties are satisfied with it it's then distributed for public comment um which those agencies then have 30 days to comment on it and provide uh their thoughts back to the rgu for review the rgu that looks at the comments received if there's anything concerning they can they can change things or they can then deem if an Eis is in fact needed or if it's determined that one is not needed which is the uh the per again the purpose of the eaw um so this is the proposed project as as laid out uh in the aw as you can see here it's the road coming in off Dayton Parkway extending through the site it's a mix of it's shown as a convenience store it could be probably anything of a retail or commercial uh on the corner followed with a couple different apartment complexes and then some other multif family homes down in the Southeast a lot of green space in here and that's due to the nature of the topography there's a lot of low areas with Wetland flood plane um other that would be difficult uh potentially even impossible to develop certain areas so this is just a distribution list again I'm not going to read through these but you can see there's a lot of uh both state and federal level agencies that that received this and are given the opportunity to provide comment on it uh the bolded ones on here if you can make those out there was four of them that did submit comments uh during the review period so those were looked at and addressed and responses prepared to those agencies who responds to those comments um again it's it this one was a combination between the proposer the developer and the city so we work together collectively with the U responses I I think it was generally the developer proposed comments and then again we reviewed them revised them and filled in some blanks where they weren't able to answer so it was kind of a team effort how far how back and forth does that go um just the one round okay okay so so if they if they have a comment and our answer is we're not doing that that's a fair comment that's a fair comment noted thank you for the comment it's a common one yeah so I notic that inen a number of places related to the comments um you know we get the response is is kind of a canned will considerate and when I say I'll consider it at home that mostly means no I'm just being polite um sure so if there if it if they're saying they'll consider it I would like to see that it actually was considered even if it is ultimately rejected yes and a lot of them are that way and we do note it um and a lot of them are are concerns or items that the agencies want to just stress or make sure get accomplished but it it actually just does work itself s out through the perit process or through the review process so they're very often addressed anyway they just want to note it as important to them um so if they are concerned or if it's something we wouldn't have otherwise done then the comment would be that there there may need to be a revision here so um so on the the comments we did we did have a few reoccurring that were were uh uh received from multiple agencies the tree removal seemed to be a common one um through all just that there was significant trees being removed from the site um so that's one we'll we'll certainly take a close look at the connectivity maybe my new favorite term that they used they want it to be human centered which I hadn't heard that one before so we'll try to incorporate that the best we can live there is an apartment for ants or so I think it's a walkable connectivity just usable space in it um but talked about noise which you would anticipate being next to a freeway but I don't know where that comes into play in the building process you know where it's actually already been discuss discussed on the layouts of of possibly increasing the buffers um from the highway there's also different upgrades they can do and this would again be flushed all through the review process but they can upgrade Windows and some of the building materials to help deten some of those sounds um so that that's already been discussed with the developer to some level so yeah that's an example of some that will just get flushed out even if they make the comment on it they do get addressed so and then again multiple agencies do did comment they they really like to see that the city's comp plan and their goals and policies are are brought forth in these reviews that they don't the city doesn't proceed through the project with contradictions from what they've SE said as a vision for the area so that was that was another one that was noted uh multiple times so our recommendation tonight is there is a resolution required for the approval of this uh determination that an e is not needed for the project and just to reiterate the eaw approval is a determination the E is not required it is in no means any sort of an approval related to the project so it's not it doesn't given any entitlements it doesn't even say you can impact this Wetland because you had a building there it it doesn't give any approvals for it it's used as a guidance document um to be used for it it's it's for the sole purpose of saying do we do we need to find additional or do additional analysis or will this all be worked out through the review and the permitting process so that's the so all right need motion a second I'll make the motion to approve it I'll second any more discussion okay all those in favor say I I those opposed say no carries 5 to zero on to item L Park area ation project installation mayor and Council um I think items l and m pretty much go together on here I think they're one and the same they're just separated out because they're aimed at two different uh contractor groups and one for installation of the pipe work and the other to uh Supply the water to the site bya Wells basically um these are two projects that were taken out of the uh Park improvements 2024 project to um to get done this year um there was this and the bridge were identified as projects that we would like to try and proceed with this year um we have got the bid documentation together um it's ready to go to the street now uh we're looking for your approval to send this out and get it out to bid and get the bid numbers back so we can award contracts to stay on uh track to get at least some of this in the ground this year um with a view to get get in substantial completion by June 1st 2025 um so um I guess that's kind of where I'm at so my question around it is um we going to use wells in a couple of the couple of the pars I get it for Stevens cuz yeah it's not in the area but River Hills and Hayden Hills mhm um both seem to have City Water available and and I saw the comment in there it doesn't put the same strain on it reduces The Strain but it's it's also another well to keep track of and maintain and mhm I think it was part of um water you know City's water conservation effort um I think it's uh looking at the bigger picture we might want to include Wells on other Parks like the um neighbor uh the big 80 acre Park that we want for sports Fields uh the the fields back here all uh uh irrigated by Wells um it saves putting chemically treated water out down there which cost us money to produce that as well um so that was kind of the consideration in there um we do uh uh trying to encourage um developers to you reuse water wherever possible rather than using City water I think it's a good thing uh for the city to follow that suit as well um I think in the long run it will save us uh drilling premature Wells um and building out know system um when we really don't need the water um that's kind of my thought behind it I know uh DNR are very you know forward thinking on that kind of thing they would rather that those Wells those Parks were irrigated by Wells rather than city water the DNR prefers that pardon the DNR prefers Wells yeah I think that they would prefer us to use Wells rather than uh do the Deep Wells into the bigger aquafers that are serving the cities they would prefer to PR preserve those for City Municipal Water rather than putting it in for irrigation and cost wise how does it compare um the cost of a this is a much smaller well um much more smaller footprint much more smaller operating uh equipment um so it' be a lot cheaper I don't know the exact mean well this type of well versus connecting to city water not another giant well I don't have exact figures on that David I think that um it depends on the depth of the the mainline that we would have to go down to um there are we would there is no um hookups there currently so we would have to um you know tap into the line or something yeah we'd have to cap into tap into a line there's no ST out you're saying for the Park area sorry you're saying there's no stub outs for there's no stub outs at those particular parks there is one at I own Gardens um there's not one at Hayden um and where was the other Park I can't remember um River Hills River Hills yeah yeah River Hill say there's nothing there um can we put it as an alternative in the bid so we can see the price difference between drilling it and going two different people so yeah be a totally different different okay does this include also um um equipment buildings say again equipment buildings is this include that there would there wouldn't be a building for the equipment no it would be um in a cabinet on the ground you you wouldn't need okay yeah there would be no need for a big building like we would have a municipal yeah I get that I just figured you'd have you have something there but what we generally do is you'll see um around there would be these cabinets the green cabinets that has a controller we would just expand that to include the well something those L CU this is an on demand pump right it doesn't have to have a pressure tank or anything like that no it doesn't have a pressure tank you have a motor in there that will provide depression it's just on demand in that 350 number do we have a a breakdown on on what each par takes uh I it's I think there is I think in the the thing there's a breakdown there's I didn't see a cost difference on each park though uh for which which letter are you looking at l or M so for L it's on page 131 for example okay if that helps you and then um Stevens Park is where I'm going with this whole thing I'm not against the uh the the irrigation system but to me Stevens Park is a little bit premature uh because we don't even know where the we don't have the dimensions on on the amusement area we don't we don't really know what's going in there yet I think what we were trying to protect you know the it's a smaller footprint and LC Steven so it's where the the the gardens are already and the area around there that have been used for photo opportunities for weddings and those kind of things so it was just that smaller area that we were trying to enhance that yeah cuz that's part of the park that you're irrigating right sorry that's only part of the park that you're irrigating at Stevens yeah or when you've got movies in the park and you got people sitting on the grass yeah that area there right yeah you want beautiful so so at this point with this request is far as to go off for bid we are not approving the project at this point we just looking for bid for both l and m you can you can do those individually be preped yeah we are just looking for going off for bid for these we have not asking for approval of the project quite yet you well let me let me get a motion second first under for this will be for l and m you going to do them together or separate together unless somebody you can you can do them or together totally fine okay Zach just said he want them separate you can do either either so I'll make a motion that we approve l& M to go out for bid a second okay um I had a thought that just popped out of my head so it looks like um Scott do you have any other anybody I don't I mean looking at these cost numbers it's surprising that uh I own Gardens with the existing curb stop it's 80 grand but I mean that's just a ballpark number I'm sure right well we don't really know what the number is yet um and I see one irrigation company in here are we going out with multiple mhm um irrigation companies or is this guy getting it no matter what go ahead Paul you're nameing up your yeah Paul Kangas with IA Inc that's 14165 James Road and Rogers um no the purpose is to go out to get public bids competitive bids uh the well workor unfortunately is right at the threshold of 175,000 so um it would be easier certainly um to not go to a public bid but you know part of my mandate as a design professional is to to try to put good estimating together we got some real good Fe back from rener will well out of uh Anoka Ramsey area and and we're right at that threshold so we thought it needed to go to the competitive bid process um and the reason for two separate bid packs is just what was stated earlier you completely different um entities that are interested in this type of work and quite honestly they're not interested in doing or working together on each other's type of work so um I was told very specifically from The Well Company that they didn't want to deal with the electrical or or the irrigation mhm uh the irrigation itself is is yeah rener was a larger number and that of course well exceeds the uh the threshold our well well for yeah group our well guy that's the well for yeah they did the test well out on well for yeah they do a lot of test wells around here they drilled well too for us um and they did did the original well in while one and the old AG yeah I remember him I was simply asked to put together competitive bid documents all the notifications all the front-end paperwork that a public bid project requires uh each of these projects will go out to a specific targeted group um the irrigation designer that I partnered with that did the actual drawings has uh a maintained list of individuals it'll go out in the public notice of course but I would expect most of our quotes will come back from people that we make aware of the project that'll be U task number one tomorrow morning if you um move this forward to to bidding the well work really when we get these bids in um and I know we're obligated to take the low bid unless there's some mitigating fact factors is that correct yes and what's the threshold for those mitigating factors uh that's kind of too broad a question um what kind of things would allow us to not take the lowest bit is that what you're trying to ask kind of yeah yeah I mean so I think the well companies are a fairly select group of size that can do this um MC Alpine well here in Dayton uh express some reservations that it was too large for them um whether or not they'll bid I'll certainly call them and let them uh make them aware of it um in the interest of using local vendors um but there's really only three or four that we expect would be well sized for the project um okay the irrigation that would have um does have in the specifications requirements for experience um and again that'll go out to a targeted list of trusted vendors but it is a public bid so anybody that gets wind of it that wants to throw a number at it and can meet all those other thresholds um the bid security the insurances all of that so there's some ability to to weed them out okay any other questions got a motion in a second F all those in favor say I right I all all right alls opposed say no motion carries 5 to zero this will come to on uh October 8th I don't recall when the next meeting after that would be it's a relatively short time frame um to try to get the well work done it is 8th is the next meeting 8 is the next city get them in before noon get to us no no okay if there are no objections we journ I Wonder we're journ