For the March 10th regular meeting of the City Council, stand for the pledge. >> I pledge >> allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> I need a motion and a second for the agenda. >> I'll make a motion. >> I'll second. >> Discussion? All those in favor say aye. >> Aye. >> All those opposed say no. Carries 5 to 0. Um consent, I need a motion and a second. >> Motion. >> Second. >> Any discussion? >> I just want to I know he's not here, but thank Hayden for all of his work. He's been really great to work with. Um he was great to work with when I was on planning commission. He's been great to work with as a resident. I've worked with him on some things, and he was great to work with as a council member, so if you're listening, Hayden, thank you. >> I I second that, yeah. >> Thank you. >> Anything else? >> Um I had a question for Jason, but I guess he's not >> Um yes, Councilmember um fashion I can try to do my best with that second Monday night. Um Jason is out of the office today, so >> Um this is on item C, the construction contract award for the Miller overlay project. >> Yep. >> Uh apparent low and I have to get on the right page here. Um Sorry for that. I was in the information um that we had on one of the line items and it might have been mobilization. Um the apparent low was $83 and everybody else was around 30k. >> It's another one of those bizarre anomalies. Where you wonder if they're really >> It was the um >> Yeah, the wrap was zero. >> The tack coat, wasn't it? >> Yeah, not mobilization. >> Number 12, it looks like. >> Oh. >> Yeah, we $83 versus um $30,000 roughly. >> Yeah. >> So, um that company doesn't need to apparently get cost for tack coat. So, um they put a penny in there for the cost. So, it wasn't a unit price error. That's a fact that they might have had extra from last year or something that they're able to get a hold of that they didn't need to charge for it. So, they charged a penny. >> Okay. >> Um wherever else is charging $3.50 or so to purchase it, they might have ability to get it. >> Yeah, as long as that was >> I get That is correct. >> Yeah, it was caught and and found I mean, not that it's a mistake if they did it deliberately, great. That >> Yep. >> But just so we're not it's not coming back as a change order. >> Correct. Yeah, so they do have to put a unit price in there if we do a unit price. So, if they essentially free for them, they have to put a penny down. So, it cannot be zeros >> Okay. >> in the system. >> That's all I had. >> Right, any other comments or questions? All those in favor say I. >> I. >> All those opposed say no. Carries 5 to 0. And we're on to open forum. Um anybody here for open forum? Okay. Uh would you come on? Is limited to 3 minutes for non-agenda items. State your name and address. No council action will be taken and items will be referred back to staff. >> Yes. I tried to do Zoom for the Planning Commission the other day and it wasn't working and they had the chat disabled. So, I thought, "Well, I'll come and see you guys instead. Lucky you." Um first of all, in reference to the A3 zoning that's going on in the north part of the city, I I I'm just really struggling to understand that. And my understanding is it means you can build two houses if you have 20 acres, right? Not one for 10? >> Correct. >> Correct. >> So, two for 20, four for 40, six for 60, eight houses for 80, and 10 houses for 100 acres? But then what if I have 110 acres? Can I do 11 houses? Or do I have to have 120 acres? And then I can do 11 or 12 houses. And these houses, I understand, can be on like 1-acre lots. And I'm I'm wondering about that. If I have 110 acres and I put on 10 10 houses, then I have 100 acres to do whatever I want? Can I put up a storage facility with space to rent? Could I do that with the other 100 acres? I just don't understand how that works. Hello. So, anyways, in reference to 113th Avenue, which you've heard about before, what a disaster that road has become. Have any of you driven down it lately? It's so rough and the farther you go towards the golf of course, the rougher it is. Construction vehicles have really ruined it. There has been a road restriction sign posted for a little bit, but it's not affected the traffic going down it. Just today I saw big cement trucks going down the road. I saw semis going down the road with trailers filled with houses going to be built. I saw semis with huge heavy earth moving equipment on it going down the road. I saw many, many, many dump trucks filled to the brim with dirt going down that road. And you know, when the speed limit was set there, it was just a farm road. It was just a farm there. That was the only thing on the road. Then a golf course was added, then a bowling alley. More recently, with there are many side streets added to 113th, a lot of traffic is coming out of those new developments, and as I stated, a ton of construction vehicles. This road carries much more traffic since the original speed limit of 45 was set. And none of these vehicles, cars, trucks, semis ever stop for the stop sign on 113th unless they absolutely have to. I would welcome a review of the speed limit on this road, or perhaps a temporary restriction reduction of the speed limit until all the road is rerouted onto 114th. I'd also urge you to have the developer hurry up and build that 114th extension. And I also urge the police to monitor the traffic more closely, especially with the road restrictions in place. As I have said, we and both our neighbors on either sides of us have had many cars in our yards and damage done lately, and I wish you would do something about it. Thank you. >> Thank you. No complaint. >> [clears throat] >> Hi, my name is My name is Lauren Mazano, and this is my husband Rich. We live at 14940 143rd Avenue North in Diamond View Estates. Uh my husband and I felt it was necessary to attend your meeting this evening to express our concern regarding the future water tower off North Diamond Lake Road. I know several of our other neighbors have attended meetings, also. When we moved to Dayton just over 4 years ago, our neighborhood was 90 to 95% completed. So, we were surprised to hear the city had plans to build a water tower. A water tower not only lowers the value, but it significantly changes the feel of the area. It doesn't seem right that the city allowed the development of an upscale neighborhood with homes up to $900,000 value and now with no consideration for the homeowners, the lot on North Diamond Lake Road was purchased and is the potential future tower location. The city of Dayton has so much open land. We would really love to propose that you look at another location. I heard there isn't an immediate need for the water tower, so when future development could start, if you could look at building it there so that the people that are building in that area, they would be aware of it before and be willing to still build and invest in that area. But, when we invested, it looked like it was completed and we didn't realize there was even room to to put one of, you know, a water tower. Um, the other thing I'm wondering about is there's so much industrial growth in the area, is it not possible to put a water tower where there's the industrial growth where it wouldn't affect their values? Or is it that that's not close enough to where the water source is? Thank you. Did you >> So, I guess I just wanted to add that um, you know, my wife and I, like she said, we we built about 4 years ago. Um, our plan was we we found a beautiful lot. Um, it was going to be a retirement home. So, you know, what we've got a concern with is obviously the view uh, for one would be right out our our front door uh, one block away. So, and it's up on a hill, so obviously we'd see it. Uh, the second would be the value um, property value. You know, we bought this home. Uh, we were fortunate enough. We are set up for retirement. We don't have a mortgage. So, we don't want to move. I don't want another mortgage. So, if we go about doing this and and the and the water tower's built, I know people say that, "Oh, it won't it won't impact it won't impact." Well, there's a couple of impacts along the site, but also the value. That's my main concern. I know, uh, my assessed value most likely won't change. So, I'm going to be paying my taxes, uh, that are, uh, I I think a fairly substantial taxed, uh, in Hennepin County. So, uh, when I go to sell, I know that's where my value's going to be, uh, impacted negatively. So, I guess what I ask is that, uh, the council consider a meeting that is called to, uh, have the neighborhood come and and understand what the plan is. We've had a couple of different things that there is just a water treatment facility that's going to be placed there first. Uh, and and then possibly water tower. So, I I just ask that be considered for us to come, voice our opinions again, and understand from the council the idea and the thought process behind that tower being built. >> possibility for another location? Cuz I know there for there has to be a new water towers. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> Can you guys fill one of these out for me just so I can have your spelling? >> All right. Fill out. >> Good evening everybody. Keith Grover here, 113th in Fernbrook. Um, half of things I was going to talk about Marshall already talked about. Maybe not half, but a couple of things I wanted to bring up. Something that's actually before the planning commission currently. It was last month and it's going to be again next month and it has to do with um with changing the development process for Sundance 12th edition from what they originally had proposed and were given permission to do. Yeah, specifically relating to their maintenance building. Um I was absolutely amazed and quite proud actually of how many people showed up at the planning commission meeting to speak against the proposal that they had put out there in moving the maintenance if everybody knows where it is now, it's it's pretty much adjacent to the parking lot for the golf course currently. And they proposed to move it clear over to the north end of their property behind the Braeburn addition homes. And it was those folks that were here there were like 30 people that were either had given written statements or had um come to the meeting and spoke against that. And it kind of follows the vein that I've been talking about now for months going all the way back to the addition that we um were toying with or we had been proposed to us for the the uh >> [sighs] >> the uh the home up on I forget the where Hunter Street. What is that street? >> Awesome. >> Awesome, yeah. Sorry. And that adjoining homes in the background and the fact that we didn't have any real restrictions on when we put commercial right up to the back of people's homes. Well, these folks all bought those homes knowing they were next to a golf course and and the promises that they were made was what every attempt would be made that the golf course would be there and also that the property directly behind them they were told was probably undevelopable for homes so they didn't have to worry about that. But now the golf course wants to stick that ugly maintenance building. You can make a pretty steel building, but it's still not the same looking out your back door, looking off your deck, looking at golf course, seeing trees. I think it's just unfortunate that you know, that they made that proposal to start with, but I think it would be a big mistake for us to allow them to do that. I think a good place for that maintenance shop is close to where it is today because everybody knows where it is. I understand why they want to move it. If I was them, I might want to move too because it's moving it away from the homes and the lots of they're building homes on and they're trying to sell. It's a whole lot easier for them to sell a lot, get more money out from that lot if there's not some big maintenance shop adjacent to or within sightline of those new homes. But I think it's really unfortunate for us to even consider putting that maintenance building in that structure back behind the homes that currently exist there. And it's going to screw up their view. The other thing that's really an issue with that is the the road that they want to make to that facility. They want to use 113th, the new design with 114th. They want to bring a a new road in off from the other development off from residential streets and use that as their access to and from their maintenance facility, which I clearly did not understand either. But that was their proposal. So people worried about the view, the wrecking of their view, the noise, the traffic that may be caused from that and certainly they're worried about their property value. Your yard is or your your home is worth a whole lot less. We've heard some here tonight. People worry about that. I mean, their home is probably the biggest asset that most people will have in their whole life. And if we're doing something that hurts that asset for that many people. Again, there were like 30 people that came and voiced their opinion either through through mail emails or through >> [cough] >> coming here talking about us. And from my experience last 40 50 years >> [clears throat] >> in representing people, if one person came with an issue to a meeting and I was conducting, I considered that 10 people. So, if you got 30 people coming, that's a lot of people that are concerned about this because not everybody wants to come in front of everybody like this. They don't want to come to a meeting. And I would just that's just my thought process and I just wanted to bring that to you guys. Sooner or later, it will get from the planning commission and it will get to you guys. And that's kind of my feelings about the whole thing all the way through. And anything you could do to help them at at Sundance clean that up. They're building a few homes out there now. They're going to be wrapping up when it's warming up. We are picking up so much garbage that's blown from that site. If you drive down 113th, it looks like it's a trail in into what in a lot of a garbage dump because there's there's so much junk along the edge of that road that's blown out of the fields, blown off those sites. I pick it up in my yard, my neighbors pick it up in their yard. Maybe we can talk to them again about doing better job of of keeping their stuff on their own property. Thanks. >> Thank you. >> Anybody else for open forum? >> I was going say anything but here I am. >> Lee Hallquist 11471 Fernbrook Lane. And the only I only complaint I got right now is if the builder's not going to pick up all this garbage that's blown around, why don't you guys come on and pick it up because it trash devalues homes, it devalues neighborhoods, and there's garbage all over. I got I threw out a about a 8 or 10 foot piece of of Tyvek last week out of my yard. I got a 4x4 piece of pink insulation blown into my yard and then there's just garbage and bags and I if the builder's not going to pick it up, somebody else has to or should, and it's making Fernbrook Lane look bad. So, that's all I got. I think I just somebody should pick up the trash and I pick up what I can reach, but it's not my job as it were. >> All right, thanks. >> Thank you. Anybody else? Come on forward. >> Hi. I'm duck lady. Actually, no, I'm Stephanie. Um 13145 Grandstrom. >> Name? >> Stephanie. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Um Actually, I'm not duck lady. I have one chicken left, so technically I'm poultry lady. But, I digress. >> [laughter] >> Um I have a handout here. Did you guys want a copy? >> You can give it to staff. >> Okay. Sounds good. Um so, I'm here to talk about the issues that I brought up at the last city council meeting um about enacting a city ordinance and um that requires enforcement agents to um unmask and display identifying badges during uh enforcement actions. There has been agents on our streets heavily armed and not adhering to basic law enforcement standards. I am seeing increased extremism and hostility in our communities and online. My family has experienced a verbal assault and racial slurs in multiple occasions. And there has been an increase in polarization and uninhibited expressions of hate. It should not be a normal thing for people to hide behind anonymous messages while outwardly expressing their hate for a particular demographic or individual. We need to set up community standards to denounce hate and better define some of our aspects of our city culture. The city of Dayton needs to make it clear that hate and extremism are not welcomed. A city ordinance establishes basic law enforcement standards in our local community and that would help. I think it's very valid to not want crime in our cities. I think that most of us can agree that safety is a priority. It is inaccurate to say that all people from a particular ethnic group are criminals. That is a stereotype. Whatever your ideology, I think we all share goals for our community safety. I do want dangerous criminals to be prosecuted. I do want due process and for things to be done lawfully and humanely. >> [clears throat] >> I want safety to be a priority for everybody. So, how can we improve this general goal of safety? I think it starts with de-escalation and building of trust. De-escalation is a critical skill for any type of enforcement agent to have in order to reduce the need for force. When situations escalate and tensions rise, it is more difficult to make good decisions. We have witnessed in Minnesota many missed opportunities for de-escalation. We have witnessed posturing of armed masked individuals not being forthcoming with who they are, which escalates the situation very quickly. One of our One of the core steps of de-escalation includes building rapport and connecting with people in order to lower reactivity, defensiveness, and intensity of conflict. Agents not required to show their face or provide clear identification are two reasons why there is still fear in our communities. Recent conduct of federal enforcement agents in Minnesota did not adhere to normal standards of law enforcement practices in our state and is another reason for distrust. There are reports of well-armed bounty hunters in Minnesota recently. We need Dayton to establish clear boundaries of conduct for all enforcement agents in possession of a firearm that complies with state and local standards of law enforcement. As it stands, anyone can pose as an agent without being required to expose their face or verify who they are. Bounty hunters also do not need the licensing or training like law enforcement do. I do not If we do not require verification of agents or standards of best practice, how do we decipher between who is acting legitimately and who is not? How do we hold anyone accountable if we don't have basic legal framework or guidelines in place for best practices. We need a city ordinance to require agents to unmask and show identification. If we do not enact such an ordinance, we are undermining local law enforcement, eroding community trust, and increasing the opportunities of serious crimes to occur. Concerns for safety are not a partisan issue. Trust cannot be built without credibility and transparency. Dayton is the fastest growing city in the state, and the reality is there's going to be changes in demographics of the city. Dayton consists of many residential family-oriented neighborhoods. There will be many folks from all types of backgrounds that will become Dayton residents. City ordinances are critical for the growing population because they provide framework for best practices to help maintain community standards, prioritize public health and safety, and create a welcoming environment and culture that rejects hate. It would also help to promote de-escalation, decrease opportunities for impersonating law enforcement, and reassure the growing community of that the city of Dayton values all residents. I am asking for you to please take this information into consideration and enact a city ordinance. By doing so, the city council would be showing the community a commitment to being a city built on trust that prioritizes safety of its residents. Addressing these concerns would be a reinforcement of Dayton's mission to promote a thriving community and to pro- provide residents with a safe and pleasant place to live. Again, we can find common ground when we realize that our goals are closer than we think, and find the silver lining in each other. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. >> Thank you. Anybody else? >> If I can talk on this last and I talk now? >> No. We'll wait We'll wait till then. Yeah. >> Thank you. >> If I Can I talk wait? I mean >> Nope. >> About a separate thing, she's asking. >> Oh, is it two separate things? >> about a separate item. >> Oh, yeah. Come on. Yep. >> Yeah. Name and address? >> Alyssa Sadosky, 11980 Fernbrook Lane. I spoke a few weeks ago regarding ICE in our community and during that time, since I only had 3 minutes, I was not able to go into depth about my interaction with Dayton Police Department and ICE. Um I have a great again, I uh law enforcement is um I have a very high standard and I and greatly um I can't even think of some words that I want to try to say right now, but cuz I wasn't prepared to talk on this, but I do hold law enforcement to a high standard. I appreciate law enforcement. What's happened recently and how Dayton law enforcement has interacted with myself when ICE has been involved has not been great. They have led me to not want to be a Dayton resident. And that's sad cuz I've been here my whole life. The fact that officer told me that it is legal for ICE agents to go through the Dayton trailer park in middle of the night honking their horn and brandishing a weapon. He told me that they could do that cuz that is legal. They are switching license plates. They are parking in businesses and businesses are calling the police department and the police department saying that they cannot trespass them. ICE agents almost hit my vehicle. There was video footage. The ICE agent was screaming and yelling at me and threatening me. Nobody followed up. Nobody. And so talk about de-escalation. I am a law-abiding tax-paying citizen here in the city of Dayton >> [snorts] >> and law enforcement is allowing ICE to go after people who just want to work. Like Stephanie said, they're not criminals. They want to go to work. They want to take care of their families. They want to let their kids go to school. But right now they cannot do that. We've had to have separate parties. Like like we're the underground railroad for these students to be outside of their home because they are afraid since ICE agents illegally pulled over two van buses. These students aren't going to school. The people that live in the Dayton Trailer Court are not stealing your money. They are not all criminals. Could there be criminals? Absolutely. Every single place that you go there could be criminals. But to to pounce on this this environment or this community and not stand up for the people that need a voice is very frustrating. My son is brown and he gets to carry his birth certificate and his passport. And the people in the city of Dayton the law enforcements, city council, I don't know are acting like that's okay. So I just wanted to because last time I only had 3 minutes. I just wanted to reiterate that having a gun pulled on a 14-year-old is not acceptable. It shouldn't be acceptable and it shouldn't be the standards that you guys are set you as a city council and law enforcement. Again, we're all white in here. It doesn't matter. You guys are going to go home to your nice homes and it's not going to matter. But the people, the vulnerable people that we should be taking care of because that's what we are, a community is really where we need you to step up. That's all. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Anybody else? Anybody online? >> Uh if you wanted to speak in open forum, if you can use the raise your hand function. Not seeing any. >> Okay, we will go on to staff consultant council updates. Zack. >> Yep, good evening Mayor Morales Council. Following our work session tonight, I did um talk about scheduling another one. I don't know if you guys had a chance to check a look at your calendars. Does the 24th work? Do we want to do a different night? Or does the 10th work of April? I believe that's the first meeting in April. I'm not exactly positive. >> Can we look at that? >> 7th? >> Uh nope, sorry, 14th. Apologize. >> April 14th? >> Yeah, 14th or March 24th. >> Or we can do it tonight. >> Either one works for me. >> Either >> Either one works for me. >> Either one. >> Either one. >> Did you say 14th? >> 14th of April. >> Or 24th of March. >> That's the day before 30th, and that's fine. >> Thank you. >> I guess yeah, I'd prefer the the second one, but I I could do both. >> Okay. >> I will follow up with that. Otherwise, I've provided [clears throat] a long lengthy weekly update. Um if you have not responded to that, I would greatly appreciate a response just cuz there's a lot of those things that are giving direction to myself, so I can give that off to staff, and appreciate the responses that I've gotten, and um so that's That's my weekly update or the staff update after my It was It was a long one a couple weeks ago. Thank you very much. >> Amy? >> I do not have an update. >> Marty? >> I just a couple of things. Well head treatment plant update. Um we've been working through all the valves, um getting them adjusted and operational. The SCADA operating system is being programmed in now. Um, there's a lot of moving parts on that. Uh, today we pressure and the pressure vessels vessels were chlorinated to activate the green sand media. Uh, chlorine samples at were taken of that um, at that point and second samples will be collected tomorrow there has to be a 12-hour gap between those. Um, and then the bacteria testing of all eight cells uh, will happen uh, by the end of this week. Um, and then we'll have to do the process piping all all the other bits on that on the system before it can be put online. Um, staff uh, training is Thursday this week so we've got a full day's training down there. Um, and we will have access to uh, various different people um, as follow-up um, training as we go along this thing. Um, uh, with regard to LC Stevens I've spoken to a couple of other contracting companies about getting prices for the concept development and bidding documentation. I haven't got pricing back from them just yet. I need to talk to one of the uh, companies on Friday. Um, um, and MSA of uh, submits some revised costs as well so we'll have three different sets of figures to look at uh, to evaluate for moving our project forward. Um, and then I'm waiting for preliminary sketches uh, from and costs from Polygon um, on a couple of structures that they're working on for us. That's all I have. >> Chief >> Good evening Mayor and members of Council. Um, we've concluded our interviews for the part-time firefighters. Um, we've extended eight conditional offers to them. They're currently in that process of going through their psychological exams currently. Um, once they pass out they'll move on to the um, health strategies portion of that. And the goal is to bring them on um, roughly May uh, for the month of May, we'd work with them to get them acclimated to the community as well as to the equipment and apparatus. Um, and then hopefully we can go live with the new crew come June 1. So, that's kind of the goals that we have set forth for ourselves at the moment. >> Gary, are these all brand new brand new recruits? >> Yes. >> Firefighters from other communities or whatever? >> Yes, we have a good mix of, uh, firefighters. We have four firefighters that have extensive, um, training from other communities. We have, um, two that have experience from immediately surrounding communities. And then we have two that already had training, um, but maybe not firefighting experience, but they have a fair amount of medical experience. >> I have another question. For, >> [clears throat] >> like, continuing, like, education, like, training for them, like, keeping up on their fire two and their hazmat, are we assuming the responsibility of tracking those training hours, or are we assuming that they're the those that are full-time or working other communities that [clears throat] they're getting their training hours there? >> No, so requirements for training, Council 100 some will be the same. So, they'll have the same training requirements as our current, um, paid on call staff does. So, they need to make four of the six trainings within, um, the quarter. Uh, just like we've always had since I've been here. Um, and then we will, um, document that from our side. So, even if, let's give an example, they went to blood-borne pathogens in another community, we're going to probably go to blood-borne pathogens here. That's just a kind of a lame one, but, um, we are going to make sure that they have all the same training requirements that are needed. >> Well, oh, sorry. This is like another, I'm wearing the weeds, but I apol- I apologize, but will we be requiring them to come back for those department trainings, like, the Thursday night trainings, or will they be doing that while on shift? >> No, they're to interact with the other um paid on call. I have to think about that for a minute because [laughter] I had duty crew and duty crew effects both, so that's what I've been trying to come up with. We have paid on call staff and part-time staff now, so just to delineate. Part-time is the eight that we've hired from outside the community or potentially in the community. So, they will participate in training um and have those same requirements. They'll be coming back and participating. We are looking at the possibility if there is an opportunity to offer daytime training, so that could be daytime training for current staff as well. Um and that offered a nighttime training as well. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Chief. >> Good evening, Mayor and members of the council. Um just to let you know we're finalizing our body-worn camera um compliance check or audit. Um should be to you guys next meeting for approval. Um and then we also just finished up with our low-light um inclement weather qualification for all the officers. >> John. >> We had a nice uh 4-hour planning commission meeting last week, and that will all come to fruition in the next city council meeting. >> Yeah. >> So, how long is 4 hours for us, do you think? >> Well, hopefully not. >> [gasps] >> I got nothing. >> Sarah. >> Uh first, I apologize. I'm pretty sick and heavily medicated, so I apologize if I'm not at my best tonight. Um but I was wondering if the city um well, two things same related to the same thing. Um the Audubon Society has a Lights Out Twin Cities or Lights Out Minnesota um for spring migration and also fall migration. Um spring migration is between March 15th to May 31st. Um many birds and insects actually migrate at night. That's actually when they do most of their migrating. Um and lights can really mess with their systems. Um, and so the request is to turn off unnecessary exterior decorative lighting, um, to dim lobby and atrium lighting, and to turn off any, um, exterior lights that are not necessary between midnight and dawn from March 15th to May 31st. Um, I have two separate requests related to this. One, um, there is a little lights out little flyer that several cities have put out for residents just to not a requirement but just residents know that this is a thing, um, that to do. Um, I had an example from Stillwater that I found, um, but many cities have put this out. So, one request was if our city, um, Facebook page could put something out about the Audubon Society lights out. Um, and then my second request was that the city itself can turn off or dim any lights that we have the ability. And they they explicitly say like this is not about street lights or like things for safety, but anything that's decorative or just turning down lights or even if you're working just asking, um, employees to close the blinds at night so that the light is not leaking out of your window if you don't need to. Um, just close your blinds, right? So, um, those are my two related but separate requests. And I think because of the timing, it is March 15th, we will not have another meeting before then. Um, and I don't know if you need council approval to post that on our social media page. >> Well, almost, yeah. Um, because of our minutes, I don't think we necessarily would if the, you know, is it just a, you know, request of us? And I don't necessarily we're looking maybe for direction would be helpful, um, just from city staff's perspective because we do get a number of these requests and we've tried to either I don't like using the all or nothing method, but that's kind of what we've adopted is cuz it's hard to pick and choose. So, um, we don't want to pick one over another one because it's a city item. So, we want to make sure that we're as down the middle as possible of either all or nothing. So, um, we've tended to be on the area of nothing just because it's easier to be only for specific items and it's not then we're picking and choosing. So, that's what we've done historically. It doesn't mean that that we can't change that, but that's what we've done historically. So, direction would be appreciated on that aspect. >> So, do you want me to bring this up as a different agenda item or right now can we get like head nods from the rest of council? >> think I have a problem with it. Um as long as the lights are doesn't mean >> What's that? >> Doesn't bother me at all. No. >> I mean we're not requiring >> You get whatever kind of light that's what you get. >> Not a fan of lights, so But >> I understand the safety aspect. >> So, I'm hearing at least two, three, four. >> support it as well and I um birds must not have looked at the calendar because they're moving now. So >> [laughter] >> I think it's the bulk. So, obviously like cuz weather it goes into it, but the bulk of it is from March 15th to May 31st. So >> It's just those nice days that threw everybody off. >> Yeah, what does. My poor animals are also like I got some of my chickens who want to go broody and I'm like, "Honey, it's going to snow in a week. So, you can't lay any babies right now." Um >> We'll yeah, Councilwoman Asanin rest of council we will do that in saying no. >> Um and is it okay like does the city if there any lights that the city can just dim or turn off for that period? Is that an okay thing like to do? Can we do that? >> I >> I I think we can ask >> If direction of council is to do that then we can take a look and see what we can for um items and most of the public works and >> concern would be something that you would look at and say, "Oops, maybe we shouldn't do this." But I in general I'm okay with that. >> I mean I think a simple closing our blinds at the end of the night we can ask staff to do that at least. >> Yeah. >> Cuz we do have security lights and >> some security lights and stuff which need to stay on, but I don't know. >> Yeah, we could do what we can. >> Yeah. I just and like they said at the end of the day you're also saving money. You're turning lights off that you don't need. Um you're going to also save like not obviously budget breaking money, but but a few dollars here and there. >> If you want to save the mosquitoes, you're going to have an issue. >> I'm not asking to save the mosquitoes. But, there's a significant number I know, so I will go I will happily go down the weeds on that and someone wants to >> I have enough direction I think from enough head now at the city council to be able to get direction. So, I appreciate that and we will [cough] look at take a look at what we can do. >> Thank you. >> don't even know what birds are back yet. >> Uh nothing. >> Uh nothing more for me. >> Nothing. >> Okay, on to item E. >> [cough] >> Yeah. Yeah. I have her Kristen, are you able to turn on your mic and your camera? >> Yes, hope Can you hear me? >> I can hear you, yes. Can we Um no. >> she can Let me stop sharing my screen here for a second. I want to stop sharing and hopefully >> There we go. >> There's Kristen and then Kristen, can you try to share your screen? >> How's that? >> I will do um Sorry, I'm trying to see if I can get any bigger. Is the council able to see that? Is it big enough? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, we can see the slides. >> Yes, I did send the slides out. Take it away. >> Good evening, mayor and members of the council. Um tonight we're having a discussion on the Flock Safety Camera and Automated License Plate Reader, also known as the ALPRs. Um 2024, um during the 2025 budget process, the Economic Development Authority um brought up the idea of getting Flock Safety Cameras um to the council um for the budget. Um during the budget process, it was decided that we'd um purchase seven cameras um in this throughout the city and implement them in the 2025 budget. We worked with Flock Safety during 2025 to get three installed um and due to some permitting issues, um we didn't get the last four installed until end of November, beginning of December. So, we've only had the full amount for a short time. Um we have had some successes. Um we've been able to get a couple stolen vehicles that hit, um able to catch them, arrest the suspects. Um and they've spent some time in jail. Um also, we've had cops alerts on um an attempt to locate on a welfare check of a gentleman wanting to commit suicide. Um we're able to locate that vehicle, make sure the driver was okay, um that he was back on his medications and everything was okay. We also had a hit down on Conant Road 81 of a vehicle known to be involved in numerous thefts. So, we were able to put our officers down in our business district um to watch to make sure that that vehicle wasn't committing thefts in Dayton. And that's one of the main reason the Economic Development Authority wanted Flock cameras is for the assistance on any thefts that we receive. Um I have Kristen here from Flock Safety to go through a presentation and then we'll answer any questions. >> Great. Thank you so much, Chief. Good evening, Mayor and Council. Thank you for the opportunity to join you. And um tonight I'm going to provide an overview of license plate readers, um what the system does, what it doesn't do, some safeguards that we have in place, and some um additional examples of how agencies are utilizing LPR to impact public safety in their communities. So, with that, I'll jump right in. Um a little bit of history on how Flock came to be. We started back in 2017, and it was actually from an organic reason. Um our CEO, Garrett Langley, had He and his neighbors were experiencing an uptick of property crimes in their own neighborhood. And um a bit frustrated with it continuing to occur, they went to local law enforcement, and I think they brought with them some personal doorbell footage um of the crimes being committed. And they handed it to law enforcement, and you know, said, "Here you go. Go get them." And while grateful for the the cooperation and the and the footage, law enforcement, unfortunately, it just wasn't enough of an investigative lead to to pursue. And Garrett, being an engineer by trade, got really curious and asked, you know, "Well, what would be helpful in this situation and these in this investigation?" And he learned that the vast majority of crimes have a vehicle involved in some way, and so vehicle details were a really critical investigative lead. He learned that LPR technology had been around since the '70s, but legacy vendors often sold data to third parties. Um it was often uh pretty expensive lift for many communities, and by the time they were able to purchase the hardware, the software outpaced the hardware, and it just wasn't wasn't ideal. And so, he created Flock to provide an LPR, our flagship product. We've since grown into other products, but LPR is our flagship product, and we really wanted to provide an ethical, efficient, and affordable solution for communities. And we are proudly um serving over 12,000 customers that trust us. Um we're solving 10% of reported crime in the US. We're helping first responders solve at 10% of crime in the US. And we see many agencies, and cities, and communities turning to technology not to replace officers, but to provide an efficient tool, um, with staffing shortages, with law enforcement resources stretched very thin. This is just another tool in the tool belt to help solve crime. So, digging in a little bit more specifically into our license plate reader technology, this here is a really great depiction of what our license plate readers capture. It's a still image focused on the rear of a vehicle, and it's taken from public roadways. So, the cameras in your community, the seven cameras, are at fixed locations. Again, they're capturing, um, images of vehicles on public roadways. It's providing a point-in-time image. There is no way to continuously track a vehicle, and again, very much focused on vehicle details, not people. It provides 24 hour day, 7 day a week coverage. For law enforcement, we are integrated with real-time alerts from the National Crime Information Center, as well as the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, or as you may know them, as Amber Alerts. And we also provide the ability for agencies to create custom hot list alerts. So, Chief had mentioned that there was, um, an individual who experienced a mental health crisis. So, in those evolving critical situations, law enforcement is able to create a specific alert for that vehicle that is, um, part of that public safety concern, or a suspect vehicle, and enter that into the Flock system. So, that when that vehicle passes by a camera in your community, your officers will be alerted within seconds. We are also ethically built. We do not utilize facial recognition technology, period. Um this is not a speed tracking camera. This is about providing indiscriminate evidence. And I just shared a bit about our real-time alerts. Again, when a wanted vehicle passes by a camera in your community, that's when your officers will be alerted to that vehicle. We do utilize what we call vehicle fingerprint technology, and this is really important. So, it's not just about license plate numbers. Um often times when witnesses see a crime occur or reporting information to police, it's very difficult to recall a full license plate number. And so, that um does not limit officers with the Flock system. If they have a description of a suspect vehicle or a wanted vehicle, they can enter those vehicle characteristics into the Flock system and search for that vehicle even without having the full license plate number. They can utilize a partial plate number. Um our machine learning is able to identify the different states of the license plates, um the vehicle make, body type, color, back racks, top racks, etc. So, again, a very critical tool um for when you may not or your officers may not have a full license plate number. Very important is that Flock is built with privacy in mind, and there are several points that reinforce this. The first is that the data is 100% owned by the city of Dayton. So, your camera network, all of the images that are captured by those cameras are that is owned by the city and will never be sold. We do work with private customers, so commercial businesses and HOAs. Those entities may choose to share their camera network data with your law enforcement officers. However, it does not work in reverse. Private customers will never have access to any sort of government hot list alerts, nor will they be able to query the system for, you know, to search Dayton's camera networks. It only works one way. Those private entities can only share with law enforcement. It does not work the other way around. Another key feature is that Flock automatically deletes the data that is captured at 30 days by default. So, all of the images that are not searched as part of a criminal investigation, when they hit the 30-day mark, they are permanently deleted and unrecoverable. So, that provides your officers with the ability limited historical information. They can search for suspect vehicle information and investigative lead, um and have the ability to look at 30 days of data, but that is it. Um and so, that balances again invest providing investigative value with safeguarding privacy, not stockpiling images unnecessarily over a long period of time. In addition, the Flock LPR cameras only take images of publicly available information. As I mentioned before, the cameras are focused on public roadways and only capturing vehicle details. Another important point is that your agency alone decides if they are going to share um camera network data with other law enforcement agencies. That is completely within your agency's control. And there is no sensitive information within the Flock LPR system. There are no names, addresses, no car registration information. It is solely the images of the rear vehicles. I'm focused on the rear vehicles and the metadata including date, time, and location information. And although there's no sensitive information, we take great care with safeguarding your data. We are All of the data is AES-256 encrypted. It's end-to-end from the moment that image is captured is in it It is encrypted. We are NDAA compliant. We are CJIS certified, SOC 2 Type 2 certified, ISO 27001 certified. We're also aligned with security protocols established by NIST cybersecurity as well as the cloud security alliance framework. And then accountability and transparency. Flock very much believes in supporting transparent um use of technology, and we have um This is actually Dayton's LPR uh transparency portal. And you'll see here it is a public-facing webpage that provides your community information on how your your police department is utilizing the Flock system. It provides information on your policies. It gives a listing of all of the agencies that your uh police department has elected to share their camera network data with. Um the number of cameras within your community, and some statistics such as how many hotlist alerts were received in the last 30 days, how many um searches were conducted in the last 30 days. Something very important to note about accountability. Every single search of the Flock system, and whether that's conducted by your Dayton police officers or by any of the other users that you have elected to share access to Dayton's camera network. Every single one of those searches is logged. It has a unique user ID associated with it. There is an offense type search reason that must be selected and that provides the ability to and that is permanently recorded and provides a your agency the ability to audit the system and ensure that it's being used in accordance with your policies and any laws and regulations. We strongly encourage all agencies to implement consistent and recurring auditing um to ensure proper usage of the system and then coming very soon is Flock is going to be providing a tool a sort of proactive auditing alert tool which will shed light on any anomaly searches. So, searches that um are repeated um again. So, it's giving your Flock administrators the ability um to you know, drawing attention to any anomaly searches. Something that comes up often is a question of whether or not LPRs violate the Fourth Amendment. And as noted, LPRs are taking a point-in-time image focused on the rear of a vehicle on public roadways. There is no way to continuously track um a vehicle. And as mentioned, that data retention, images not used for criminal investigation are deleted. And courts have consistently found um that taking images of public documents or license plates on public roads is not a violation of privacy. Over 30 appellate and federal district courts in at least 14 states have upheld using evidence from LPRs or license plate readers as constitutional without requiring a warrant. Recently um Schmidt versus the city of Norfolk was decided and the court concluded that the limited number of photographs that were available um do not track the whole of a person's movements and it does not provide an intimate window into where citizens drive, patronize, visit. Um and then in the state v. Simmons in a Washington State Court of Appeals, they noted that based on established legal precedent and constitutional principles, no privacy rights exist for the mere act of photographing a license plate in plain view on a public road. We believe that each community can utilize this in alignment with their values and that um public safety does not have to come at the expense uh of community values and vice versa. We have leading compliance features that we've implemented. There are search filters available that agencies can enable which prevents any searches related to immigration enforcement or reproductive health at the request of that community. We have federal limitations within the system. There is no federal access on our nationwide or statewide lookup search features which are reciprocal sharing capabilities. Only agencies can share their data, not Flock. As mentioned before, we have the permanent audit logs available to cities. And then lastly, our legal response. So, our contract mandates that we alert you. It is your data 100% so if Flock receives a subpoena for your information, we would notify you to that um and that way your uh your counsel your legal counsel can decide on how to respond. Something we're very proud of is our partnerships with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, as well as Mothers Against Drunk Driving. Both of these national organizations see incredible value of law enforcement having access to license plate reader technology. Um with national I believe um it's more like 400 missing children cases have been resolved um with access to this technology. And then with Mothers Against Drunk Driving, they see huge value in not only um providing critical evidence in uh impaired driving cases, but also hit-and-run situations um where I believe it's over 40% of hit-and-runs go unsolved. And so they see ALPRs as providing law enforcement critical evidence to help solve those cases and bring bring solace to victims. And then another organization that we're very proud to have their support is the Oakland, California chapter of the NAACP. And we're having more and more conversations with chapters across the country. And they shared that in a moment when communities are demanding both public safety and equitable justice, Flock ALPR offers a powerful tool to reduce bias in policing. These cameras are designed to detect only vehicles associated with a crime, which removes the subjective judgment that often leads to disproportionate stops and harmful interactions with Black and Brown residents. It is a clear example of how technology can support fairer and safer policing. And lastly, just to to finish up, um we are working with over 80 law enforcement agencies within the state of Minnesota. And um chief shared examples of successes we we get to hear many times daily of different types of crimes that are impacted um and cases that are impacted by law enforcement utilizing LPR. This is an example of an armed robbery that was helped we helped solve the West Allis, Wisconsin Police Department. They received an alert that a Kia SUV that was wanted in connection with an armed robbery out of Milwaukee was in the area. Officers were able to initiate a traffic stop. The suspects fled. They ended up apprehending three suspects, two of whom had several felony warrants. And again, it resulted in an arrest. And a homicide. So, they were West Allis PD was alerted on a stolen Hyundai sedan that was actually connected to a Milwaukee homicide. Officers were able to respond quickly. A chase ensued, but they they ended up apprehending those murder suspects. This is an example mentioning Mothers Against Drunk Driving from Van Buren, Michigan. So, a hit-and-run a hit-and-run led to a fatality and within 8 hours of the incident, the suspect was apprehended with the help of an as mentioned before a custom hot list alert into the Flock system. And one of their lieutenants shared that without Flock, the case very likely would have gone unsolved. And then I mentioned different types of crimes. Something that you know, we're very proud I mentioned our our partnership with National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Well, in addition we've heard countless stories of silver alerts or individuals suffering from memory issues, dementia, Alzheimer's. Cases like this that was shared from O'Fallon, Missouri where loved ones have gone missing. Um Family, friends have reported them missing, are able to provide a vehicle description and or a license plate number, agencies are able to enter that information into the Flock system. Again, so that if that that vehicle passes by a camera in the community, officers are able to quickly locate those individuals and return them home safely. So, when time is of the essence in the situations of silver alerts, and this is an example of the first Amber Alert that Flock helped law enforcement with um in these developing critical incidents where again, time is of the essence, having this um alert, this ability to be alerted to the vehicles has proven just invaluable. So, with that, I can pass it to Chief if I missed anything. Um otherwise, I'm happy to help answer any questions. >> Any questions? >> Let him probably a simple one to start with. Um she mentioned that uh it's only the back of the car that the the picture is taken of. >> [clears throat] >> So, then are there two cameras at each of these locations, or how do they how does that work? >> No, we one camera per location. >> So, how does it get the back of the camera cars going? >> up one direction then. >> Yep. So, maybe it's just me, but I'm not quite following. So, a car passes by and the going toward the camera, how then does it get a picture of the back of the car? >> Towards the camera, it won't get um a picture of the back of the car. And that's why he said he's technically try to put them on the egress entrances of the city. So, anytime somebody comes into the city, we're getting the rear um license plate coming into the city. >> Okay, so we're not we're not getting capturing images of people leaving the city then. >> No. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Anybody else? I have no questions. >> I have no questions either. I mean I think I think you're a great asset personally. >> I have a statement. >> Go ahead. >> I have a statement. I just wanted to say thank you to Chief Inga for spending some extra time with me this past week to provide me with the state statutes and then our internal policy and then auditing procedures cuz that was one of the questions that I had was um you know, how are we keeping track of where the data is going and who's requesting it and so he was able to provide actually printouts for me um to kind of put my mind at ease in the questions that I had and then um I had a question too for um Chief Inga about um the actual snapshot of the back of the car like can you see my kids in the back window? Like can you make out like people and um that you cannot. Um it is just simply the license plate at the back of the car. You can't tell who's in the car, who's driving the car. You wouldn't know if there were 15 people in the car. Um so I had that put my mind at ease knowing that you know this day and age we're not putting small children in the back like we're not there's not a picture of that. It's just of the license plate. Um so I just wanted to say thank you for taking the extra time to meet with me um and to provide those printouts cuz they were very helpful in kind of putting my mind at ease with the questions that I had. Um I just >> agree. I I'm sorry. I had a similar but separate meeting you know, a couple of meeting rooms probably but um was very good and uh I did of course read through the our our policies and I guess my main it's not a not a concern just that I want to make sure that we are uh following those audit procedures that are outlined uh in in the policy and in state statute. I think that's pretty important that we're doing that and maybe we haven't had them live long enough to conduct that kind of audit yet, but I want to make sure that we are doing those things. >> Yeah, we haven't had them basically into the years when all seven of them went active. So, we are put implementing the audit trail um within the police department as we speak. So, we will be conducting weekly or bi-weekly audits um on each system. >> Meaning who's querying the system and >> And then >> what it's for, making sure everything. Yep. >> Okay. >> Um I do have a question for Flock. Um do you require a multi-factor authentication? >> It is by default. >> Okay. Um so, that's not uh has that always been the case? >> Um I can I'm not sure. I can ask our our data team or our security team when that was that was implemented, but I I don't know and I can provide that information to Chief. >> Okay. Um so, I guess I mean where I'm at is that uh well, quite frankly, your company has lied a lot about things, particularly about um whether Border Patrol or ICE has access, um which you did allow as a pilot program, um and didn't communicate that. So, agencies were unintentionally sharing information, um and when asked repeatedly, you continued to deny it until um there was finally enough evidence to to force you to tell the truth about that. Um and of course, now the pilot program has ended. Um at the end of the day, you're a for-profit company, and so you are legally obligated to put the uh financial well-being of your stockholders above all else, including your customers, including the residents of the cities you serve. uh And I quite frankly don't trust you and I never will. And any data that says that you guys do a good job comes from you. There's never been an actual third-party organization to find that ALPRs do anything. They have never been It's inconclusive at best or is just, you know, basic very weak relationship. So, I am opposed to the Flock cameras or any sort of system like this and I would personally want to see them gone. And that's where I'm at. So. >> Scott, do you have anything? >> No. Um Do you want to respond to that? >> Sure. So, with regard to the the pilot programs, there was a lack of communication internally about that and we regret any misinformation that we, you know, it was not It's certainly not intentional or meant to mislead agencies. Since that pilot has ceased, uh we do not have a contract with Department of Homeland Security, ICE, CBP, any of DHS's sub entities. We've also responded to to communities and our customers wanting more robust federal protocols within the system. So, we added the search filters which agencies and had mentioned can enable to prohibit any searches related to immigration enforcement and or reproductive health um for those purposes because again, we do believe strongly that each community can utilize this tool in alignment their values. And Flock is committed to to supporting compliance and accountability and transparency measures. So, um I appreciate the the the feedback and again the opportunity to share. And we are invested in we know trust is earned and we want to show that we're committed to supporting the the use of this tool in every community. >> Any other questions, comments? Um won't you come up forward then? >> Yeah. No. >> Same thing. Name and address and then kind of >> [clears throat] >> Alyssa Senescall, 11980 Berkeley. >> Um was actually part of the Minnesota organized retail theft um prevention. I'm part of that uh committee and so Flock was brought in and um I really did think that it was a great There was a lot of good things and like Chief Enga said, there's a lot of positive things. There's a lot more not positive things about it. And so because of um my concerns, I am asking for um clear answers of like does the city allow Flock data to be shared with federal agents? Because it is technically your data, you can share it. Technically, it's also Flock's Flock's data because they own it. So, there's a lot of um gray areas within that. Um and if you are sharing it, what is your written policy? Is a warrant required before federal access is granted? Are those searches logged and audited? You did talk about the audit system. So, how is that going to look? Um has federal agencies accessed our city's Flock data in the last year? Um if that's something that we could have, you know, put out there. Um The next question is make a make sure the Flock policy and contract is public and available. Right now there was a statement by Chief Enga, you have to dig and dig and dig through the city of Dayton's website to find that statement which does not show me that that's transparency and that's also concerning because if you want your community to to be think that you are, you know, having their best interest at heart, you should be transparent and you should have your statement where it's resi- like you can find it. Clear clearly disclose whether federal agents have, you know, access under what conditions. Um And also um Um she she did talk on a lot of the things that I was already going to speak on. So, I just think that it is if you are going to go ahead with this Flock, what's the budget? Are the HOAs because they're already paying for them? Are they double paying them because our tax dollars are paying for it? So, how much is the budget? What is your policy going to be? The attorneys that have looked into the Flock policies have found the loopholes that say different than what she just talked on. So, that's something also that your attorney should probably be looking at before you go through and consider Flock as your secondary backup for being short-staffed. Um again, Flock yes, it was sold to me as a very good reason, you know, to catch criminals, but also I think that there could be a lot of damage done if that is allowed. >> Thank you. Christine, you want to respond to that? And then we'll I think we can wrap it up. >> Um I would just want to reiterate that the data is owned by Dayton by the city of Dayton 100%. Um Anything anything else is is false. Uh if we were to receive a subpoena for your information, again as mentioned, we would notify you immediately and work with your your city attorney on how the city would like to respond. Um as far as I can look and share information with Chief as um as far as if uh and Chief may have your data sharing settings available as far as if you're sharing with any federal agencies currently. Um I don't [clears throat] have that right in front of me, but can certainly get that information over to you. >> We We currently are not sharing with any federal agency. Our all the agencies that have requested access um is on our transparency page that the ones that we have allowed access to. There is no federal authorities that have access to our system at this time and we don't plan on allowing them. And our budget for this is 21,000 annually. Um it's $3,000 per camera annually for maintenance. Um so 21,000 per year. And this uh the HOAs are not contributing to this. Um this was all taxpayer dollars um with the request from our economic development authority and that just got put on my plate to be the manager of it. So >> Any other comments or questions? >> Maybe you want to because I think part of her question was are are have HOAs installed these in the city is is somehow um supporting that. And are you aware of any HOAs in Dayton that have installed these types of cameras? >> Currently I'm not aware of any of the homeowner associations that have installed the cameras. I know during neighborhood watch meetings our detective Fieldseth was out um at the meetings um giving the information to the homeowners associations so they could make a determination if they wanted to purchase one um through the HOAs, but we have not had any requests for purchases. And we do a we do have uh license plate reader policy in our department. We also are um held by state statute, um which is in the packet, both the policy and um the state statutes in the packet that is available online. >> I I do want to just clarify one last statement. I definitely trust our Dayton police officers. I've My issue is not with our Dayton police officers misusing the system, but I'm basically being asked to trust that every single officer that we are sharing this data with will not um do a private search for ICE, and they have been across the country, and I can't say that I trust every single police officer in every single agency we share with. Um and like I said, I don't trust Flock. So, I just want to clarify though. It's not I I absolutely trust our own Dayton Police Department, and I have no fear or concern that our police department would misuse this data. That is not my concern. Um it is all of the communities we neighbor with uh that we share with, and there's a lot in this list um and the company itself. >> Yep. And if during our audit process, if when we start doing our bi-weekly audits, if we notice anything, we would automatically release that agency from being able to look at it. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yep. >> I think we're good. >> Oh, wait. >> Nope. >> Okay. >> [cough] [clears throat] >> Keith Grover, 113th and Fernbrook. Um I do share some of the reservations of uh Councilwoman Aston. Um I'm not sure if I trust Flock. I understand how it can be a a terrific asset to uh to the police department, but I'm also skeptic about where that information is going and who's going to get it. Um, I have a couple of questions. Do we have a city city policy, a written policy as it relates to Flock? Is it a publicly available policy? >> Yes. >> That's Was that what was referred to on the website? So, if I want to go dig on the website, can I find it there? >> It's in the packet. >> Okay. >> Yep. >> Okay. Uh, my next question is who in the city of Dayton allows access to the Flock data? >> It's So, who When we get a request to share data? >> Yeah, if you're looking for a missing kid. And or if you're looking for a specific car. >> Yep. >> Who Who in Dayton has the ability to access the data that's on the Flock? >> All of our officers. >> So, any officer can do that. They don't have to go through you? >> Correct. >> Okay. Um, you also mentioned that we're currently not sharing data with any governmental agencies. ICE seems to be the big one that's you know, that's on people's mind. Does our policy prohibit us from sharing data with ICE? >> No. >> So, who would make the decision to share the data with ICE? Any of the officers that have access to it? >> No, I would. I review each of the agencies that request um, it access to our data. >> If I'm an ICE agent and I approach one of your officers and I tell them we're looking for this vehicle with this license plate number, does that officer have the ability to search that for the ICE agent? >> He has the ability, but he won't. >> Why won't he? >> Because we don't allow federal access to the ice system. >> Is that on our policy that we don't allow that? >> No. >> Then maybe it should be. If that's what the hard rule is. I don't want any any gray areas out there that's going to pin our residents against our police officers cuz you guys got enough hard enough job anyway doing what you do. I think you need to nail down >> So our policy our policy and state statute requires a reason to run a query. If the reason was put in there for ice investigation and it was found out he could be subject to discipline, determination, and even to criminal statutes. >> But if our policy doesn't say he's prohibited from doing that, how are you going to discipline somebody for that? That's my point. That's my point. >> look up. It would be an illegal look up. >> It's against statute. >> I 40 years of writing contracts and I'm not sure that's clear in my mind, but I think you understand what why I'm asking the question. Um And if the policy is available for everybody to look at, that was my other question cuz I haven't seen anything and nor have I heard anybody talking about it. So Um I'm glad that that's available for people to look at. There are there have been times that I wished that we had a system like that. There was a time when my mother that was on the edge of dementia left the farm and we didn't know where she was for 5 hours. Your guys were looking for her, Champlin was looking for her, Brooklyn [snorts] Park was looking for her. Thank God she finally found her way back home. There's another time when someone dear and close to us, a child, a handicapped child, was missing. And we didn't know where she was. We didn't know what direction she went. I think this system could have um enabled you guys and the neighboring police departments to find that child sooner. But I think we really need to go into this with our eyes wide open and make sure we cover our bases all the way around. If there's a way to do an end run around a policy that's not written in ironclad with doors on all sides, someone will find a way to use it like Sarah was talking about. I just think we really really need to make sure that that policy covers our butt so that these guys don't get in a pinch. I don't want to see any of our good officers get caught up in a BS that's been going on in our state for the last 3 or 4 months. I really don't. They got enough enough things to do right here in Dayton without trying to chase ghosts around the city. But that's all the questions I have. >> Thank you. >> All right, thank you. Anybody else? Okay. >> I should go over 113204 Brooklyn. My I just have one question and that is what about the background um when these cameras are filming cars? And the car What if there's no cars coming? Is the camera motion detected like that? So it's on all the time? Is the camera on all the time or just when a car goes by? >> To me >> It's motion activated. >> Yeah. >> So what about the people in the background? I I know there was a person in downtown Dayton that was saying that it was pointed towards their house. And they were concerned that people were going to be able to see them coming and going and out in the yard doing things and No, it the cameras are focused solely on the road and on the cars. >> Focused on public roadways, yes. And the uh the images that are retained are only the best images of vehicles and then something beyond that there is no way to search for a person within the system whatsoever. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> [snorts] >> I have I have a couple questions as a Are we Do we own these cameras or do we lease them? We pay a fee for them. I don't >> We pay an annual maintenance fee of $3,000. >> Okay, but we don't own the cameras. >> Can I get your name and address for the record? >> Lee Hallquist, 11471 Fernbrook Lane. How come she didn't have to give her address? >> She did. >> Okay. You should have that on file by now. >> I will. >> [laughter] >> I'll have to Flock to answer that question cuz I I just know we pay an annual fee of $3,000 for maintenance. >> Okay. >> Correct. So, we own the hardware and we conduct maintenance on it. All of the data captured by the cameras is owned by the city. >> Okay. Uh and we have a contract for that data. Is that what I understand? >> Correct. >> Can more than one person get a contract for the same cameras? Can I in this example also get a a contract for the same cameras and then they own the same data? >> No. >> No. >> So, that data is exclusive to us. >> Correct. >> It can't be touched by anyone else including >> Unless we share with them. >> Yeah. >> Well, what if can Flock share it? >> No, there is in the contract it specifically outlines the only time that Flock would have to disclose your data would be if there was a valid court order or subpoena for that for that data. And in that instance, we would notify the city immediately. >> Okay. And And again, I just want to uh reaffirm that um there's only one contract for each camera. One city contracts for we contract for the cameras in Dayton and nobody else can contract on top of that for the same same cameras. >> Correct. >> Okay, that's answers my question. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. Um >> This is just a discussion, correct? >> Yep. >> Yeah, I think we can we can move on. We discussed it. >> Okay. >> All right, item F. >> [clears throat] >> Good evening, mayors and members of council. Um tonight before you is a request to bid on a 100-ft 2008 Pierce Arrow XT aerial um Arrow XT, excuse me, from uh currently owned by the city of Hopkins. Kind of review a little bit uh for those that are not familiar um how we ended up here today. Um back in November, December, if I recall, um well, actually look back up even further than that, about 18 months ago, um I brought before the council a request to purchase a $2.5 million ladder um from McQueen. Um And during that process, uh the reasons for that is obviously the same reasons that I have in here this evening, um which is the second slide. Um so, council had decided that they wanted to cancel that back in uh November November. They also uh gave the uh some direction to look for a used piece of apparatus. I took that opportunity. We happen to catch one that's nearby and I believe it's well maintained which is the Hopkins ladder and request before you. Um again, provides us with roof access, ventilation, elevated water streams to those large pieces of property that we have, residential and or commercial. Um we anticipate the expected bid price approximately a half million dollars through competitive process. That is the state of Minnesota's um bidding site they have over in Arden Hills I believe. Is that right off of 35W there? Is where they process a lot of state other equipment. Um so that'll be placed on that for auction. Um requesting Um Zach and I had talked about this um 600,000. Are we locked in at 600,000? Can we ask you to bid 600,000? No, we're not asking to bid 600,000. We're looking for latitude within whatever council's desire is. Anticipating that it might be 500 but if it comes in at 525, is that something that's reasonable to the city council? Also, we do need to allow for funds for if there is any minor maintenance. Based on my review of the records, I don't see anything necessarily. However, tires are an issue sometimes. 10 tires at about 1250 bucks a piece, that can be around 12 or 13,000 dollars. Um and then we do need to get hose and some other required equipment that we do not have currently that we would need to outfit this piece of apparatus with. Um this ladder does offer us the ability to have the capability within the community and then also offer this um to other communities that are aid uh concept that we use to support one another within the fire service and our showing communities. Um and then also like I said it supports our multi-story commercial buildings. Reduces reliance on mutual aid for other for their ladders. We had a each situation not any fault of uh the organization that we requested mutual aid from but it was missed by >> [cough] >> Kevin County dispatch. Um so there's a few things that uh provide us the ability to um have this own service especially as we continue to um get other commercial structures. Obviously Greco being one um possibility of the apartments to the south. Um you want three-story apartments we have difficulty cuz currently we have nothing more than a 124 ft ground ladder. With that um I will open it up for questions, comments, concerns uh from council. I'll do my best to answer those. >> Let's go first. I have a few questions. >> But I'll let you go. >> I do want to go ahead. Um you provided a very detailed list of um equipment that would we would need to purchase. >> Yes. >> Is any of this um when we sold engine 11, we took equipment equipment off of there. Is any of this able to be serviced by that equipment that we removed from that sale or um if you can tell me no, we have to buy all new. I'm just wondering if there's anything we can reuse in this >> Whatever equipment uh Councilman Henderson Councilman Henderson, whatever equipment that we have um we would definitely reuse that equipment and put that on. Currently for example, the big ticket items like radios, SCBAs, bottles, and so forth. We have that equipment. Um so we'd reuse that. The bigger thing that we don't currently have is yes, we have extra hose. You'll see it out here in the bay. Um but there is actually [snorts] a need for hose is probably one of the biggest things. You know, to the the of a minimum of 600 ft of 5-in um cost of that I I don't exactly know. I'm going to say it might be $300 100 ft. Um I could be way off on that. Um but there yeah, for to answer your question, anything that we have currently, we would definitely reuse on this truck. >> Um Does that try to keep going or >> Yeah, that's out of the question. >> Um I appreciated the zip file of the maintenance records. Although I didn't get a chance to look too deeply into them. I know we did not receive them until later on. Um My concerns are if we've only had uh 28 hours to review those maintenance records and they are a little sporadic. There are a couple things in there that kind of raised a red flag for me. Some of um like the vacuum testing, um there's potential cost there to fix some valves that have not been repaired um but have been identified that they will eventually need to be repaired and we just repaired valves on one of our other [clears throat] engines and it was a huge cost. Huge meaning relative to 600,000 not huge, but they those things could add up especially if we don't know exactly which ones cuz they did not identify which ones um they actually were causing the issue or could potentially were showing signs of failure. Um some of the other things that kind of concerned me there was um one of the oil sample analysis showed that there was extra copper and mechanical equipment doesn't self-heal. So like once it's going, it's going to continue to go. Um that was another thing that I did not Maybe I missed it. Again, we have only had 28 hours to really look at this and those are just kind of the two that I had randomly opened. So, I'm just wondering if maybe Okay, first question. Sorry, I'll back up. When is the auction? >> Well, Council member Henderson, I don't know exactly in that capacity. They were going to to a certain extent give us some time to take a look at some things. Okay. They haven't given me an exact date of when it was going to go out there, but working with a Chief One Shaw in Hopkins, being that we're neighboring and to a certain extent mutually partnering, they wanted to give us an opportunity to look at the stuff that was contained within what they provided. >> Yeah. No, I definitely appreciate using I'll say using that relationship cuz that one I mean, but having that relationship where, you know, we do have those wonderful records. I'm just wondering from a making a decision this large and the two maintenance records that I opened showed what I think would be problems that I would like to know before we move forward. I'm wondering if I'm 100% for us finding a a ladder. I believe we need it. I'm 100% behind the department with that, but I'm just wondering if maybe we should take some more time to look through those records and kind of lay them out because again, we got what is it like 10 PDFs, I think? 10 documents? There's quite a few. Um and I personally would feel a little bit more secure about making this large of a purchase if we had looked through them and really identified, "Hey, if it is a valve, this is potentially what it could cost us." I don't want to get down the road and say "Oh crap, like the writing was kind of on the wall and we missed it because we were kind of hurrying to no fault of your own because we didn't have the information." But that's my two cents. I don't know how anybody else feels, but >> Specifically regarding those [clears throat] documents, I I cut those two it talked about copper [clears throat] being found. High levels of copper and copper doesn't just show up. >> And that was in 2024, so we're >> didn't indicate a fix for that. >> I believe that information was for the generator, if I recall. >> Correct. It was. >> Uh members of members Mayor and members of council, I'm happy to uh so a little bit of history, we do a lot of our work with EAM, and that's fundamentally who services their trucker, who's used to service their truck. Um we've had not had a specific discussion, but the recommendation has been given to me by Chief Landshaw to reach out to Luke at EAM, who we work with on a regular basis. I'm happy to get um further information or a recommendation from him based upon if there's specific concerns that you see within the maintenance, to say, "Hey, this is what we anticipate it might cost as it wears out." Or no, we don't necessarily think that there's an issue. So, I'm happy to to do that. >> I think that would be super helpful to have that recommendation. >> There was a couple of them that I think that would to me that was important. The one report said that there there were valves close to needing replacement, but it didn't um it it seemed odd to me that they found them close to the fail level and didn't fix them. >> It I did see in one of the reports, they did do some valve work, and that did not They did the test again, and that did not save. It wasn't the one that was >> No. >> getting close to that fail point that they needed to replace. >> nice to know that possible cost. Like I said, the the the copper being found that wasn't really addressed. There was also a stop engine light that showed up twice, and there was no It just they couldn't get it show up again, but it was a DPF light, and and those aren't cheap. Uh it'd be nice to know some information about that. Um >> Oh, Mr. Mayor, I did forget one thing, if I may. Um and then I just had one other question, cuz in here um you cited the NFPA 1901. Um, I had a question if we were also going to, um, make sure that we are compliant with NFPA 1911, which is like the frequency of inspections and those performance testings. I know that you can't that book is huge and you can't list them all. Anyway, I was making sure that we would be compliant with that cuz Yeah, so long Oh, sorry. >> No, sorry to interrupt you. >> okay. >> Um, from a a maintenance perspective, uh, there'll be additional maintenance costs for this particular piece of apparatus. >> Um, >> just like other pieces of apparatus that need to be pump tested, this will need to pump test. >> Yeah. >> This also is going to need to be ladder tested. Non-destructive ladder testing to make sure that there's no cracks or welds, um, in the ladder itself. Um, obviously due to just aging over time. Um, that has been done every year, um, from their perspective. I know they also did, uh, Councilman Slawson mentioned earlier about the the um, inspection. >> Mhm. >> that can request those records if, um, I didn't see them in there either. I have to take a look and see, but they did, in theory. >> Most recent one was July of last year. >> Yeah, they said that they have done one, I guess, and follow up on that. So, like I said, we got the records later than, uh, Chief Slawson's point of trying to review some of that information. So, um, like I said, I'm happy to get that information without a doubt. Um, so we can make an educated decision. My thing is, uh, and Zack's request, if you will, >> Um, >> is that this truck would last 10 years. >> Um, sure. I've told Zack, I said, "I can probably give you five, but I mean, I don't know. We don't know. Any of us in this room don't really know kind of what that looks like. Um, but it is something that I think is a reasonable, um, cost. Again, we've we're lucky in so far we've been lucky, if you will, with the engine, uh, excuse me, the the tanker that we purchased through McQueen. That's been an awesome truck. Had zero issues and that's the hope that what we'd have with the purchase moving forward. So, like I said, I'm happy to do additional get some additional information if there's anything specific. If you can get those to me or to Zach, I'm happy to ask those questions. >> I think it would be important to have that survey done, you know, independently. I mean, maybe it's the same company, but on our behalf. >> Sure. >> Because I think it it could affect how you know, how much we're willing to build bid for this depending on what the what the repair bill is going to be like to bring it up to these standards and and your own standards as a department. Um you know, kind of know that that whole package. Um you know, overall I I didn't find anything that scared me off from it, certainly. And I'm curious, is this a live auction or is this done over over the internet? >> So, what appears to be, what I can tell, is like it's like a live auction. At least what Zach and I have seen there where it's posted for a period of days and then it says the current amount is X and then I'm assuming, like any other auction, that there is a bid minimum somewhere in there. Um so, it's not going to go for a dollar, if you will. Um obviously, we don't know what the bid minimum is. Um I will say that I'm not going to Zach and I would not start at $500,000. I would expect us to start lower than that if it's acceptable, you know, from the auction site. Um So, yeah, I don't have specifics of like when. I just know that February 13th, I believe, the city of Hopkins did their surplus equipment so they could put it out there and then they kind of started working through those motions and then having that relationship with Hopkins was able to get us probably more information than if we were to buy this from like the third party that we used to sell all of our trucks. I can't remember the name of the company. >> Uh Brindlee. >> Brindlee Mountain. >> How will we know when the auction is occurring? Will our connections let us know? Is it that where you just said we're interested in this piece of equipment? Like how How does that process work? I'm just wanting to make sure that while we're gathering this information that we don't miss our opportunity cuz again, like I really feel like nothing has scared me away. Like this is I don't say exciting, but it is. Um, because we need this piece of equipment. Um, but I just want to miss the chance while we've now sent you back to go and get more information. Um, I just want to make sure that we're not pushing that too far. >> Yeah, I don't know exactly. I do know from in talking with Chief Laurenshaw, they're looking >> [cough] >> people in May. >> Okay. >> Okay? So, I think there's that opportunity to ask those questions. I don't think that's like, "Hey, we need to do this tomorrow." Um, my understanding in my discussion with them just to give some feedback or history in why they're getting rid of it. They've accepted a SAFER grant um, from the feds to fund full-time staff. And it sounds as though that this will help fund that full-time staff until they're able to maybe levy for it and so forth over the next couple of years. So, they're looking to get that um, that's what the reason for the sale. >> And this is they have two ladders, right? Okay. >> Cults for a fashion. So, it's technically not a live auction. Although it's live in time, it's actually online. So, live auction where you don't actually go and place and put up a number and say, "Hey, I got a number." It's uh, just online. You click the button and then you and then you bid it. So, it is Yeah, it is live. It's on. So, we do know what website it is, so we can check. They They don't run for a week. They don't really run for I think it's either 14 or 28 days that they start off with. So, we do have some time to be able to um, discuss this. And it was on the I'm going to apologize maybe didn't touch base with the chief. I got this was a discussion item because I figured there would be more information needed. Um, if we can get it out of the vision, great. It's fantastic to have that ability, but it was put as a discussion item, not as an action item because I figured there would need to discussion on a on a youth item if we're going to make a big purchase like this again? Um, Um do you want to understand that the council may have questions about stuff that um we don't have the answers for and so it's good to get a discussion item on before you're getting an authorization for it. And I did not touch base with the chief on that so I take blame on on communicating with the chief >> First off, was was there a Was it ever um evaluated? >> What do you mean? Sorry. >> Is this piece of equipment anywhere we could look at it and say, "Hey, here's the net proceeds my value?" >> I don't know if they can do that chief. I don't know if they can um so we will So when we purchased the last one from McQueen, um we just asked them, "Okay, what are you going to put it up for sale for?" We had heard about it from the city of Farmington and they said, "Here's what we're going to put it up for." Um I don't know if we ever got a second opinion on the dollar amount. >> No, I I get >> Yeah. >> There's no state statute requiring us to justify a a a purchase. So my second question is, you know, normally when we do this with other property where there's a competitive thing, it's done in closed meeting so that >> we don't give our position away. >> we don't give our position away. Why uh cuz right now, I mean, if we approve this, it's pretty clear where somebody else bidding against us has to go to. Mhm? >> I I don't know how to do it. The negotiation part could be done in a closed meeting, but at some point you guys have to give us a number and some information about you're okay with us approving it. And so it needs to be transparent with here's the number we have. I don't know and maybe I can work with the attorney on okay, well, what are we all comfortable with doing if it's um if we can talk about it in a closed session and then approve it at a council meeting. I don't know how that all works in the terms of what's negotiation, what's talk, and then what's actual approval. It's no different than what we did um when we purchased that property on North Diamond Lake Road. It was a closed meeting discussion about the number, but then when we went to open meeting, it was here's the number we're paying for. Here's the amount that we paid. >> Right, but that's after >> But that was after it was uh after it was accepted. However, this one is a little different cuz it's a bid process, so we can't I can't do that same process this week cuz I don't have a purchase price to go, "Hey, this is what we're going to buy it for." and then >> No. >> back to council. >> But it's not a sealed bid. >> It is not a sealed bid. It's a It is a ongoing auction of a countdown no different than you go to auction masters and want to buy whatever. >> I bid a thousand, you bid eleven hundred. >> You got it. You got it. >> Eleven hundred and one. >> I would think we have. >> So, I'm happy to have a closed meeting discussion on items and not not trying to say that we shouldn't or should. I This is a little different. We've never had to actually physically bid on an item. We've had to come up with a dollar amount. We've done that and we've had those discussions, but not This is the first one for bidding, so. >> However, this maybe this comes into the same arena then, but um we do have a a gap with funds we have available and obviously we need information and probably discussion around how we're filling that gap. >> Sure. Yeah, I did provide that on the weekly update few we weeks ago of like here's some ideas. I'm happy to discuss more if the council wants to discuss certain funds that they'd like to pull money from or be able to identify what we're looking for for funding sources. Again, discussion overall, I figured it would relate more on the ladder truck. Doesn't mean that it can't go on finances too. I'm available and ready to go for conversation if that's the case, but we do have already levied dollars of 240,000 and so we have that established ready to go. I don't have We don't have that today. Um that'll be levied and received in July and and December of this year. So, they don't have it visually like here right now, but we get them this year. And then of the hot of the 240, 140 of that is coming this year and then the rest of it needs to come from another source of whatever that may be. >> So, I have some logistic questions. Um first, as long as we know um how much I would like to have a total bill of how much it will cost us to get to get it where we need it to go, so that we can say this is our total price. So, as long as everything is within the total price, we're good. And if it's over that, then whatever. Um and obviously we don't have that answer today, but that's what I would love. Um second, logistically, I kind of agree with the mayor. If this is a if this is a bid that other people can be bidding, and they know that I'm just making up a number, our our max is 400,000. We're not going to go higher than that. Then a neighboring city can be like, "Well, we're going to do 450, and then we're going to get it, and Dayton's out, right?" So, like I feel like we should like that if you can ask our lawyer if we can do that number part prior to the bidding process, and then at an open meeting after we have either gotten it or not gotten it, disclose it. >> Sure. >> Um but yeah, I just I and I like you said, we've never done this before, so from that's a logistic question I have on that end. Um and then uh uh on the other side of logistics, if we we don't know when the auction is, but whatever happens, and we get it, and we don't we know we we have this money, but it's not here yet. Like how does that work? Like how do we Do we have like do we go to our savings account to pay for it now, and then and then we'll figure it out? >> We We've got money. We've got money. So, it's it's a little more than we just have money, cuz we don't just have money. Um I I try to be as aggressively as I can, try to earn as much interest for the city as possible. So, I am investing in fixed asset or income items, um typically CDs, uh bonds that have a maturity date. So, if we pull money early, so let's say the council decides next year we're in Sure, we have the money. We have 30 2.5 million dollars in investments, give or take. And so, if the council said next year, "Hey, we're going to spend 5 million bucks on the roadways." I don't have 5 million dollars to be able to use. I have those of the investments laddered out based on the long-term plan of when we're projecting on doing those projects. So, yes, we have the money, but if we pull it early, no different than in anyone else's personal Now, it's not liquid. Yeah, it's not liquid cash. I think we have a roughly 3 million dollars of liquid cash in our savings account. So, we have ability to fluctuate back and forth, and most of it's held in a a money market account, so it's earning 3. 56% something like that. And so, it's available to get grabbed early if we needed to, and I leave some money in there all times cuz when a big check comes out or something happens, we have to be I still have to be able to operate the city, and if I pull an investment early and we lose 50,000 bucks, I can guarantee you all look at me going, "What the heck are you doing, Zach? You're not doing what you're supposed to be doing." So, I do leave a lot of bit of cushion in there to be able to say if something comes up whatever than this, that we're able to um fund it without causing a ripple effect of lost income for the city overall. >> So, I guess that was my question is, if we say, "Yes, we're okay with this at X dollar amount, which hopefully we can negotiate privately." Um even if we have not exactly figured out where it's going to come from, that would not prevent you from going ahead and saying yes at the auction, we can get it, we can pay our bills, and then a meeting or two later, we can still figure out exactly how we're going to pull all that money together. >> So, we have what I call pooled cash. I think I've mentioned this to a couple council members before, and and maybe I hadn't mentioned everybody. So, we do have pooled cash. So, we have one bank account for all the funds, and we have a an allocation of that cash. And so, technically, it's one bank account, so there is money in there, but one fund might be negative for a temporary time frame, one might be positive, and so in total, they all add up to the same >> Got it. Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. Those are my logistic questions. Like I I don't have as long as we have a total this is how much it will cost total and that's the number we can make. I'm I'm happy with this. But I would also like to see if we can get the actual number in a closed meeting. If this is a bid open to like if it was just us and Hopkins that's a different thing but I just don't know logistically how that would work. Not that I think Rogers is going to do it but I don't want Rogers to hear the meeting and be like haha we will get in there and sneak in $50,000 or something. >> So I just wanted to ask and just to confirm or reiterate what you're looking for so for all of council I will get answers if you guys have any other additional questions as it relates to the maintenance items and then you're also looking for roughly what is the additional cost that it will cost us to outfit the truck appropriately and then that's your number. >> Yeah, that that's where I'm at. That's my number. >> Okay. >> And just to add to that I would I'm sorry Scott. Um that you know, if you're not I would hope that you will be working on training plan for you know, what it sounds like I mean this is several years ahead of our original schedule with the new truck. So that's not my that's not my sticking point but I would be I would feel bad if we end up having a truck that nobody's qualified to run. >> Council member Fashant so myself and Chief Astrup have come up with that plan. We're looking to have a third party come in and the Minnesota Board of Firefighter Certifications I'm not saying that correctly but state certification board has a state certification for aerial operator use. So our intent is to have them come in if we were to get this implemented here over the summer time to get everyone trained on that and certified on the ladder. >> Great great and I I appreciate that obviously it's necessary and I I just want that to be a part of the whole package. If there's a cost for that, if that can be included with the you know, additional equipment and hoses that you mentioned that we would need, the cost of that outside training. I think wrap it all up in one package, and then we can look at it all at the same time. >> If that's through the fire board, can we go back and ask for funds, like the refund back for that as well, like we do with firefighter one, two, and Hazmat? >> That is correct. So, yep, we can do that. Um, annually, um, Zach has this magical number that he puts in his back pocket, [laughter] um, so to speak, and that's his expectation that, um, in theory, what we get reimbursed from from the fire certification board. So, we always or I always ask for. I go through and I audit all the training throughout the year, and the last two, three years, whatever I've been here, um, we've received more because it's been reallocated from other agencies that have not used their funds. So, often, a lot of our classes are covered by those additional funds that are out there. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, great great question, Councilwoman. I had to send it in there. Yeah, we do try to get as much reimbursement back as possible for training dollars. Um, we do allocate I make the chief get $20,000 back in reimbursement every year. That's my magical number to him, and I say everything above and beyond that you can put back into your budget. So, it incentivizes him to do a little more than just get the budget number. It's to try to get as much back. But, I think historically, the last three years since the chief has been here, we've gotten at least $25,000 each year, if not more, um, in reimbursement. Um, one item I do want to make sure is addressed, too, as it was brought to my attention, and I and I want to address the question that was asked to me is, okay, this letter truck does fit. It's something that the chief and I talked about. It says it fit. We did look at that overall with the, um, layout provided at the council, cuz I think it's important to know that we're not looking at another facility. That's another big question that Tim had. We also know that there's an engine tender that's coming down the line as well. And so I did talk with the chief a little bit about what we're doing with that engine tender. If we get that engine tender, now you are out of space and the space is within the confines of our area. What are we doing with that engine tender? And his answer is well, I'd like to keep as many things as possible. I think it's important to note that the tanker is a hugely important asset to us. The engine tender will essentially replace that tanker and the intended use of that tanker was to only be here during the time we didn't have the engine tender. However, as the two years since we've purchased that have happened, I've learned that in Ok Champlin got rid of their tanker. Maple Grove is down to a single tanker which is very very small and Rogers has one I think. That's what you meant. Right. And so our tanker abilities are less and less and we do have a lot of space left to develop. There is no way we're going to be all hydrated. I hate that word. By the time in 40 years or something. It's going to be a long long time. So we do have to figure out a way to hold on or we'd like to hold on to that tanker if we can and find find a spot for it. So that is something that I did talk with the chief about. I think it was yesterday. It said hey, we need to figure out where is that going to go if we're going to get the engine tender. Where is that next space? We cannot count on some other facility. We have to be able to fund all of them and make them work. So that's something that staff needs to do as well. It's part of our discussion items is where we putting the tanker if the ladder truck is purchased. Where are we putting the tanker to be able to still utilize while also not you know, requiring us to put up another facility for that thing. So >> The additional to that um obviously we're moving into our favorite season all of the scenarios. Budget. And especially costs on electronics. Um but as we move forward the request will be coming at some point. Maybe not this year but probably really next year to replace engine 21. So my intent is just to kind of forecast and give information in advance as to um replace engine 21 with the same engine tender that we purchased which currently it's it's slated for station one. More than likely it's going to probably go here. Um but the same democra- same type of equipment. Because as Zach alluded to is the community's going to need that additional water for some time. And at that point in time, once that was ap- um approved if you will, then that could be something we could look at where we have 2,500 gallons of water in each piece each truck from each side, then we can look at um reselling that piece of equipment. Um even at that point um I think there's potentially need because we are waiting longer and longer for communities to come and help with auto aid or mutual aid. Um we've made some agreements verbal agreements with those to the northeast. So, East Buffalo over off of 65 65 and that, you know, on the Rumford Fire District is what it's called today. And then if we continue to have to go to the west um to get people cuz we don't have our neighbors immediately around us that as Zach alluded to have current tenders and tankers. >> Yeah, there are conversations happening additional to this that I want to make sure the council understands that it's not just a yep, everything's good to go. We are still having conversations of what it looks like and the chief and I um we'll have more conversations over the next 2 weeks of what what does it look like as well. So, hopefully we can find back up. And if the answer is we need to remove the tanker and we'll remove the tanker and and figure that out cuz that was the original plan. So, keep moving forward. Scott, did you have something else? >> My only comments are um I got answers on the bid process. In some of them uh testing documents it did Am I correct that there's somewhere between 12 and 13,000 miles in this rig? >> That is correct. >> Uh and uh there is a company that does give you an appraisal on fire equipment. Uh and a while back when you first brought this up, Gary, you had stated you and Kevin were going to go and look at this unit. Have you done that? >> We did. Yep. >> Well, then you would know if it needs tires. >> Honestly, I didn't look at the tires at that time, to be honest. The The biggest thing with tires, though, too, is not just what they look like. It goes back to the fire services. Anything greater than 10 years, I have to replace them. So, I don't really know >> That's any That's any tire if you go to Discount Tire. >> Yeah. I I have no idea what the age of the tires are, but tread-wise, I'm sure >> They're still good tread-wise. Okay. I'm also in favor of I see the need for the ladder. I mean, we can even use it on hose fires, so uh whether or not this is the right rig, I'm not sold there yet. So, hopefully, you better be looking for a plan B. >> Zack and I talked about this, and I'll bring this up. Just from my perspective, this isn't Gary wanting to buy something brand new. >> No, I'm not saying brand new. >> No, no, but I let if you We >> We've already been down that road. >> Yep. No, but here here's my thought process, and this is just my thought process. And we can't afford it. I respect that. The reality is I think we're kicking the can down the road by not buying the new ladder that we're looking at. I can't guarantee how long this ladder is going to last. We had a purchase agreement, if you will, for 2.5 or 2.3 or whatever it was. And now we look at Zack's numbers, and I don't disagree. I'd like to If we can get it last 10 years, awesome. It's not always going to be the first truck out the door uh by any stretch of the imagination. It'll have some limited use. Obviously, it doesn't need to go on grass fires and so forth, but we're going to purchase Assume that we're able to get this for whatever the price is, and we spent that along with any maintenance items. And now when we do need to replace, so as soon as we buy this, we need to put something in place for capital improvement over time. Does that say 100,000 or 200,000 or whatever is the council wants to put aside to incrementally pay for that over 10 years if we use that number. Now that number, instead of being 2.5, is probably whatever we pay for the current ladder, and now we're close to 4 million, so it just depends on how you look at it. I just bring it up for more of a case in point, no, you know, whatever, but I don't necessarily disagree with what you were saying. >> Yeah, we should be saving money for everything we buy. I don't disagree. [clears throat] >> All right. Any other comments? Okay. >> Yeah, but when you want Yeah, Mayor and Council, this will be back in likely the 24th if we can get enough information. >> Okay, that'd be great. Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. >> Uh item G. >> All right. Mayors, members of Council, if you recall back in November-ish time frame, I think we looked at removing allergic reaction, ill person, lift assist, pain, medical alarm, and down unknown problem. Um with the establishment of our duty crew, um my request um is to add back those calls to help us being that we are going to be here during those duty crew hours. There is some numbers within the document that sits in your council packet um that are inaccurate. Um one being on the where it says January 26th, January and February, 10:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m., uh instead of saying that instead of that saying eight, it should have said three calls, cuz if you add the numbers up, it doesn't add up to 75. Um and then on the second page, where it says from October 24th through February 28th, 2026, total successfully handled 88 calls. Um those numbers were numbers that I when I was initially putting this together, um, I wasn't able to get all the specific information I wanted specific to the hours that duty crew would run. I worked with Echo data to fine-tune those numbers. Hence, that's the numbers that you see in front of you now. Um, 75 calls during that time frame, so roughly 17 months of data, um, equals about 4.41 calls roughly per month that we'd be adding back in only during the time that the station is staffed. Um, I guess I stand for any questions. >> Good to go. >> I have a >> Go ahead. >> Always me. Um, thinking back to last year when we did that call reduction, I thought we only reduced the severity one through three. Or am I incorrect and we did one through four? >> Yep. Yeah. Cuz our head of service went back and reviewed the minute to review the tape and it was one through four that was approved. And so that would include, um, the down unknown and that also would include dizzy, faint, and mental health behavioral which was not listed on the two of them. >> I'm going to push back on you. It's only dizzy, faint, and mental health. It's only four. >> Yes, that's the only two. Yep. So it was additional to the other >> the other >> one through three that were listed on the staff report. They were listed on the um, screen. Slide. That's the word. >> Something. >> Right there. >> Okay. So I I and again, I'm There's room for me to be wrong, but I was like, "I thought it was one through three." >> One through One through four was a, um, was approved as a reduction. >> Um, the other question I have is if we are going to be adding these calls back in, will we be referring, um, residents that we are making these calls to care Resource Connections and will be be reestablishing our partnership with them cuz I think the ultimate goal is to provide our citizens with the help that they need. And so, I believe the police department is currently working with Care Resource Connections. Is there room for us to go back to more of that partnership style that we were going to do with the fire department as well, giving referrals? Cuz again, it's about giving the where the resources that these residents need, not necessarily about anything. Like that's the main goal. >> Uh currently, we have our embedded social worker that we've been working with with um any additional calls. So, if we continue to get like pain calls, um lift assists at a residence, we'll refer them to our embedded social worker that provides them um with the resources they need. >> So, we have terminated our relationship with Care Resource Connections? When did we do that? >> That was um so, there was a conversation that was had with Care Resources back in December based on the change of the council and moving the um call call changes away that if at this time, if the if the police department is doing those calls, we have an embedded social worker that does the exact same work. There's no reason to double up the work of the police department. >> back and would say it is not the same work, but >> That So, that's what the that's what the direction was at this time and I said at this time, we want to figure out where we're at and how much work is being done. Can we reallocate social workers' time to be able to add a add that back into the residents? And then we would reanalyze it at the middle of the year. And that was when I left the conversation with Care Resources. >> So, if we change this, though, then are we going to reanalyze that decision? >> we may have to. >> I would [clears throat] like to, personally. >> From what I heard um from the presentation, it sounds like it sounds like uh they were very beneficial. So, well, seems like something that I think we should look at again if we're going to reinstall these calls cuz I well, yes. >> I I have a pushback kind of question. So, that's a conversation [clears throat] that you had with Care Resource Connections. >> Yep, with with the two Chiefs as well, yep. I had the conversation. The two Chiefs had talked to me beforehand about here's what we're going to do, here's what the plan is. If that's what we're going to do for call types, there's no reason that our embedded social worker who again can do similar work, maybe not the same exact work, but it's similar work, can do, why would we pay for two resources that do the exact same thing, at least from what I understood. And so, I had a conversation with Care Resources and I said, let's understand where the embedded social worker's at so that we can understand how much work or not work we have additional to that so that we can say, here's what we need help with, here's what we don't need help with for the middle of the year so that we can put a pause on it and say, here's where we're at and do we need help anymore? I don't know. >> Does that then mean that we have pulled out of Dayton's representation with the other like within Hennepin County and um, as far as like the blueprint on aging, are we not part of that anymore then? >> Uh, that with the termination of the contract, that is my understanding. >> Oh. >> Yep. >> I feel like that's maybe something that we should have talked, I don't know, maybe that's an overstep and that's operations and then I don't I don't I don't know. I I see the value and I think that I personally would like to revisit it because I see the value that it brings to our aging population in multiple areas. So, um, and I I don't I don't know how anyone else feels about that, but if we're going to add these calls back in and it really seemed like from the data that I saw that they were making a difference and actually getting the resources that residents and I haven't seen the embedded social workers resources or anything, but I would like to revisit I like the council to revisit it and to make that determination of where we want to put those resources. >> So, yeah, Mayor and Council, like I said, the idea was to analyze where we're at in the middle of the year. This is what was communicated to CARE Resources as well. It was not hidden that we're trying to get rid of CARE Resources. That is not the goal. It is to understand how much work is needed and how much the can the embedded social worker um help us with this process. If the police department is doing those calls, I do not disagree that it may need to be addressed at now if we're going to add back in those calls at this time. That might need to be conversation we have if the fire department's going to be running them again. Is that something we want the embedded social worker doing with the fire department and with the police department with other things going on or if that's something where again CARE Resources needs to be brought back in. I don't know that answer. >> Can we have this embedded social worker come I I I don't know what services that they offer. >> nice to know yeah what that overlap is I guess. >> Correct and I'd be nice to to hear maybe from both because I think there's a lot of other benefits that we did not either know about talk about or take advantage of with CARE Resource Connections. >> Sure. >> Personally, I mean the having conversations with them of got that's my understanding. Um but I I don't know exactly what the role of our embedded social worker is and I would like to know more I think about what both provide. >> Is that something that the embedded social worker be able to do, Chief? >> If that's council direction, yeah. >> Okay. Yep, sounds good. We'll have something on our future council meeting then for >> Okay. >> council to have in front of you for the embedded social worker so you better understand what that role is. Um how that handles within the city. >> In terms of this specific request, um I'm fine if we're paying the duty crew to be here, I would like them to go to calls. It's kind of my my like we're paying you to be here and there's a call then you should go to the call is my view. So, um, as far as what's in front of us here, yeah, if we've got people here we're paying to be here then they should go to calls. Um, so I'm I'm fine with this. Um, as far as the embedded social worker and the care resources connection, I would just I don't know enough about what what like as I said what where the overlap is, where the difference is, um, and I would need to know more before I have an opinion on that one. So, I was just looking at this and I thought, yes, if we're paying people to sit here, I would like them to go to calls. So. >> Yeah, I think that makes sense. I was kind of surprised at how little it had an impact though. Um, I would have thought it would have resulted in a lot more calls being reduced. So, that's I kind of wonder >> Not reduced during daytime, but the analysis that I did showed that most of those were coming out weekend and evening, but we have medical team or we have overnight response teams, I don't know what you're calling them. >> Yeah, overnight medical response teams and again, lack of better terms, duty crew from home. >> Yeah. >> Um, and we've actually they're on a 7-week rotation so our firefighters um, participate once every 7 weeks. Um, during that rotation and I don't want to say it cuz I'm going to page you go off. >> [laughter] >> And I'll leave it at that. Yeah, we have not gone so Um, it it's it's worked well. Um, >> Good. >> you know, I guess a little glimpse into the future too long as you're you know, you had asked kind of a little bit inside of possibly I'm looking potentially depending on how things go to maybe extend the crew for next time for my budgetary items. So, I'm just kind of throwing if you have questions or whatever in future. So. >> Okay. Any other questions, concerns? >> Gary, you're going to have the capability so that at 10:00 p.m. when the duty crew is gone, then all of a sudden police department has to call candles that call? >> Uh yeah, I mean often now >> It's going to be a different tone at 10:00? >> Yeah, so we are so to better answer question comes number uh Solon against that yes, we've worked with Henry County dispatch. They have an all call and all call >> I don't know if I can talk. >> all call tone and then we have a duty crew tone. So the duty crew tone will be utilized just during duty crew hours. Well, and then there could be an all call tone that would come out. So if the all call tone comes out during duty crew, this is where hey, we got a fire a significant event. We need all hands on deck so to speak. Um so yes, eventually down the road, we will probably add a station one tone and a station two tone. So we can be able to seg- segmented even further should we need to. Yeah, of course. >> I I think so. I hope it works out that way. It did. I mean the answer was an all call or duty call. So at 10:30 it'll be an all call. >> It'll be an all call currently for our least right now. So it's just clarification as well. So duty crew or the our overnight duty crew um is operational um Sunday night through Friday morning. So those are we have them staffed there on that rotation once every seven weeks. There is and I think we discussed this a little bit in the past is that we do need to look towards weekends. We do run thin on weekends and there is a fair amount of calls on weekends. However, currently we're trying to incrementally obviously from a budgetary perspective as well as from a personnel perspective, trying to let this kind of soak in and people don't know what they don't know. Not too much change at one time. >> Okay. And it'll be all called for the limited types. >> Yes. >> Yep. >> Or this to where my point was is police department would would handle that, not you. >> That that is true. Yes, in off hours law enforcement would take that. Now, full disclosure, law enforcement often has to call us for some of these. Lift assist being one, just because of depending on the patient dependency or you know, whatever, availability of law enforcement. >> Right. >> That [clears throat] would have been a not I'm fine with this, but that would have been interesting to know how many times the police department has called >> [cough] >> That happens. >> Yeah, like how many times has it happened where the police department has called fire out for these types? I'm fine with moving forward with that. I'm just thinking like ahead like things that like I would like to see if in the future. >> I'll entertain a motion in a second. >> I'll make a motion. >> I'll second. >> Any more questions, discussion? >> Just one question. You're going to have a a schedule pretty soon, right? >> A schedule as >> duty crew guys. >> For like just >> What what's the hours going to be? >> So, just to clarify, like I said, this is where we get when it Yeah. Paid on call staff and part-time staff. Both are impacted by duty crew. Just want a better understand I understand what schedule you're looking for. >> When you're paid the part-time guys are going to they're going to handle >> Yep. >> I think from 10 to 10 or something like that. >> So, the what what's been established with the organization, Councilman Roslanic, is that our duty crew members, I have to rephrase that, our part-time members that we just provided conditional offers to, their core hours are from 10:00 in the morning until 6:00 p.m. Now, and then we offer what we've working with the organization on is that we said, "Hey, we talked about the 20 hours. So, that's two shifts of duty crew for our paid on call members, plus their training, plus three or four all calls encompasses roughly that 20 hours. What we've done though this now is we've told part of paid on call I still struggle with it. Paid on call that you you need to work one shift a month. You can give away one shift if you choose. We believe the reason we did that is the eight people that are coming in um I sat down with after we did our initial interviews and that after they did the physical agility to get an understanding of how many hours they're looking for. My concern is this is that I don't want to offer, you know, "Hey, I only got 4 hours for you to come." And you're driving from wherever you're going to come, but they may or may not be interested in that. So, majority of them, a lot of them are interested in more hours that we can provide currently. That doesn't mean that they're not going to not come, but they would like 30 hours a week. Can't provide 30 hours a week necessarily, but so we see a lot of it more than likely their core hours as I told them, 10:00 to 6:00. They can be here 10:00 to 10:00 as long as there's that opportunity because we're going to also offer the that 6:00 to 10:00 is going to be for paid on call to uh fill in first. >> Okay. That's This is one of them things I think before you present the program to the department, maybe council could have known what the plan was going to be as far as what kind of hours you were what shifts you were going to have. >> Well, I think we discussed this before Scott in the fact of 10:00 to 10:00. >> Yep. I think there could have been better communication on that issue though. >> Sure. >> So. >> We didn't have any of our current firefighters that were interested in taking any of those 10 to 6 shifts? >> We have heard I've heard from one that maybe. So there is a policy that procedure policy procedure that we put in that states that they do have the ability to elect if they choose to participate in that program. Now the danger of that obviously is that we need to have a good balance of what that looks like. We can't have too many So if you're currently in the department you should want to switch to the duty crew or the part-time model. >> Mhm. >> You would have that opportunity. We put in there rough numbers I think if and granted this year will be a little wonky from the fact that we're starting in June. But they would have to let us know probably by ideally probably more from just from a scheduling perspective probably by September cuz what we're trying to do with people and everyone so for scheduling purposes is this is that let's assume that we'll talk January. January 1 would be when we'd start duty crew. So then we are going to back that up 3 months or 90 days. So by the end of September they would by October 1st they would know what their schedule is for January 1. That gives them the ability regardless if it's part-time or paid on call to trade shifts cover shifts. We know that sick is going to come up. The other thing that we've changed as well is that instead of a measurement period of a monthly basis where you have 36 hours that we told them that our part-time staffing needed to do we have expanded that to a quarterly. So in a quarter their measurement is 108 hours because if somebody on the part-time side wanted to go on vacation for 2 weeks it's going to be difficult for them to get their 36 hours in in that month. So we want to look at it in a broader perspective. So, some of these things we're we're working through as we move through the program and trying to come up with things that holistically balance it out and are equitable to to all staff, part-time and paid on call. >> Just for clarification, what is the concern if you had a Well, let's call them somebody that's currently on the department that wanted to take some of those 6:00 to 10:00 shifts. Like, what is or 10:00 to 6:00? What is the Is the concern that they wouldn't then make their 6:00 to 10:00 shifts? So, they took the Hold on. They took the 10:00 to 6:00 shift that they wouldn't be making the 6:00 to 10:00 and you wouldn't have enough coverage there? Like, why not allow them to pick up the day shifts as well? >> Just based on kind of trying to figure out hours and we're going to hire the part-time and the and whoops, excuse me, and the paid on call. We have nobody We've had one that's come forward, like I said, and said they might be interested in that program, but the bigger thing is is that if you assume that you want to be um part-time there isn't a requirement to do all calls. And so, we get into this inequity of we need people when that pager goes off to come back. Um and to expect that somebody that lives on the other side of town to come back, we'll we'll welcome them back to help out. Fundamentally, it might be clean up cuz that's always a big chore, but initial response lays on the fact of those that live nearby or close. >> Okay. >> And and and it's a balance. It it it's difficult to try to figure out kind of what that looks like as we kind of move forward. I think part of it is those that aren't familiar with a a duty crew program they don't know what they don't know. And my belief is this is what's going to happen. There's a lot more people are going to become interested in it. Hence, that's why I'm looking to the future to add to cover more coverage with crews that are here. Um if that makes sense to you. Adding duty crew on weekend. So we have to vote on something, don't we? >> Don't we? >> Do we vote? >> Still We're still discussing. >> Okay. >> Um I guess from my perspective, I I'm fine with the changes in the types of calls that are being requested as Sarah and others have mentioned. Obviously, if we have people here that can respond to those calls, they should. Um when we made the last change, we at least I fully expected that we were planting a flag somewhere and that as operationally you gained experience with this, you would need to make adjustments and this would be one. I feel the same way about the scheduling of the new and I'll get this wrong, too, but I'm going to say you confused me. >> That's okay. >> [laughter] >> It's confusing to me. >> That the part-time the new part-time people covering the essentially the day shifts um we don't have experience with that, right? The paid on-call firefighters don't have a lot of experience with the duty crew model and the overnight medical things and I think there's going to continue need need to be adjustments as time goes along and and data supports making those kind of changes uh operationally. I hope that at some point we get to the point where we're not um working on your schedule. I don't think that's where our time is best spent and uh I understand why why we're kind of into the weeds um on some of this stuff, but I hope that uh at some point we can get out of this. Sure. Those are my comments. >> Any other comments? Okay. All All favor say I. >> I. >> All those opposed, say no. Motion carries 5 to 0. And we are on to item H. >> Mayor and members of the council, we have a payment of claims in front of you. If you have any questions, comments? Say if you have any questions. >> Anybody? >> I have a few comments, but I can I can wait. >> I had a question earlier last time. Oh. Um just had it. Minnesota Department of Health, $12,640 for Minnesota Connect fee. Just I just wanted to know that was. >> Yep. Uh Council member Hanson, that is our charge that we charge the residents every single month to have a connect fee to the water system. We have to pay a fee to the Minnesota Department of Health. Um a fee to them, and so it's a small fee. I think it's like $4 [snorts] a year. It just went up to like 12 some odd dollars a year now. So, it's a monthly fee that we charge, and then we hold on to it for the year, and then make one annual payment. >> Got it. Thank you very much. >> Yep. Anybody else? >> Uh I had two. Um cuz I know Marty's Marty's bored over there. Um >> [laughter] >> I wasn't that bored. >> Uh on page 73, there was a um a charge for a magnetic drill kit for $3,138. Do we use this a lot? That's a pretty expensive drill. >> Yeah, it's it's used in the welding department. And um it's for drilling um before they weld stuff. Um we do a lot of fabrication now. Um so, it's a a a safe way of drilling um on a bigger sheet of of metal rather than put it taking over to the dro- drill press and doing it this that way. You uh just put the the magnetic drill over the the hole you're trying to drill, and it does it right there. So, if you got multiple holes to to drill on one sheet, it's is a an economic and good way of doing it. So, the more fabrication projects that we've got, the more use this is going to get. >> What kind of metal are we talking about? >> Sorry? >> What is the I mean, what >> It's It's magnetic. >> All right. >> And it So, you mark your your your your holes out that you're drilling. Um it clamps down, the magnet attaches to the metal plate, and then it's just like a drill press from there on in. >> Okay. It's 30 grand. That that I guess that really hooked me. Um 3 grand. 3 grand, yeah. It just seemed >> [laughter] >> It just seemed I got to add another number. Yeah. I don't know. I guess it makes sense, but >> Uh the other one I wanted to ask about was on page 90, and this is for the fire department. There's some custom embroidered stools for $5,000. I'm only going on the description that we got. >> Um yeah, it they label them as So, truth be told, there are more than three custom uh there are three recliners, and then three stools that were purchased from Firehouse Furniture. Um they're very durable. They have a five-year eight-year warranty. So, we have six chairs, if you will. We have three overstuffed recliners that are in the area that was remodeled as the kitchen, and then three chairs um and a table that went with it. >> That's all I had. >> Chief, is So, there's also a uh PCU 50 cutter. That's where the 30K got Um is that a replacement item? >> I Nope, that's the um extrication equipment. >> Okay. >> Um that was the 39,000 total, I believe, and then it's just broke it out based on funds. >> That was that item that we had. Okay. And one other one, um, I think this has been brought up before, but I don't remember what the resolution was. There was one light um, lights bill there for 2,600 for 2 months. Um, what what's that all about? >> That's the string of lights all down Linden Road. >> Yeah, one of them is is 2,600 and it just struck me as >> Mayor, is that for what department and who who do we pay? >> Canexus. >> Okay. >> I think this is the one with the multiple lights on it. I think we discussed this before. >> I think we have. >> Yeah. That's >> I think they I don't remember what >> Yeah, I think that they lumped something I think it's something like 60 or something lights that they put on the one bill and that's why it comes out so high. >> Correct. >> And Mayor, so was it's a I I could pull back up again, but I know it's multiple lights and I don't mean like five, I mean like 100 and something lights. Um, and I don't know why they put it on one bill, but the other ones they break out and that one they kept all together. Um, >> Okay. >> And it's not Pine View cuz those are separate. >> Thank you cuz >> [laughter] >> those cost money. >> Okay. That that still seems crazy for light, but whatever. Ah, that's all I got. Anybody else have any? Thanks for taking all the pressure off, you guys. Okay. Motion and second. >> I'll make a motion. >> Second. >> Any more discussion? All those in favor say I. >> I. >> All those opposed say no. Carries 5 to 0 on the item I. >> Make a motion to approve. Make a motion to approve. >> We have to discuss this one. We can discuss. I got a motion. >> Mayor and Mr. Council, this is on the agenda for 138th Avenue stormwater improvements. Um, this has been discussed before. I'm sitting in place adjacent, so please be kind. Um, the [laughter] background is Young Creek Watershed secured grant funding. We talked about this in early '25. We identified a few projects. This was one of those projects that was going to be used by grant dollars. Um, the the council did authorize this project in October of 2025 overall, and it is a grant program that is handled by the um, watershed and was approved by Bowser and that is the Board of Water and Soil Resources. Um, purpose is to install treat and treat the runoff from neighborhoods that are directly and immediately north of Diamond Lake. It is a 50% grant, so 50% city, 50% um, grant. But, we did revise the language that it's a 25% grant, so we were able to adjust the language that it's 75% grant and 25% city um, up to $58,000. Um, and so the reason why the $58,000 or the total preliminary cost is 116, $58,000 is the total grant, and we have to cover at least 25% of it. And so, um, that's why you may see in the packet, I believe there was three different scenarios given or whatever that it may be. I don't know if it's on these sides, so it was. Okay, we'll talk about them in a second then. I'll I'll discuss the grant and what that looks like. Um, low bid is Blackstone Contractors. The base bid was for the main um, artery that goes into North Diamond Lake. And what it is essentially is a new structure that would catch the stormwater, let it settle out, and then drop the um, stuff to the bottom of it. That allows Marty's um, people to use the vac truck to be able to suck it out versus using by buckets and such. And so it's much quicker and that um, structures would be built separately or could be built separately. Base and alternate A are what it's take a majority of the water. Alternate B does take some but a very, very small, small portion of this. The entire water and I wish I had a mouse. Oh, I do have a mouse. Look at that. All the water that goes from here apparently all flows actually toward the west and then into alternate A. So alternate B only handles a lot of this much water, this entire area. By the way that it flows, all of the water that comes and runs off of that farm field actually goes to alternate A. So alternate A actually ends up being one of the dirtiest um, basins from what I've learned from Jason. So and Marty. Um, and what we're looking for recommendation for is to approve all alternates in the base bid. Um, it is less than what is uh, our preliminary engineering estimate. And the reason why base bid only is 47,000 and the city is 15,000 is because that's 25/75 ratio. >> Yeah. So if the base bid only was approved, >> that is the ratio. Otherwise we'd be able to use the entire grant up which is $58,000 and the city would cover the difference. Um, so I will stand and Marty will stand for any questions. >> Scott, was your motion for the base plus A and B? >> That's why Scott we had to talk about it first. He just approved and we didn't decide which one we were approving. >> Staff wants to do it and I mean it to me it sounds like an okay thing to do. Uh, we got to do A for sure. A and B, yeah. I think so. >> Then I'll second that. >> All right. So now we can get to discussion. Um, anybody got any questions? >> Um, there uh, so the six property owners uh, were contacted. It says three of them have you had talks with. Um Do we know I like do we know those three in relationship to base versus all day versus all day? >> Councilor Vanessa, are you asking which one they would have preferred? >> Well, so we need people to say yes to this, right? Cuz we have to go through their property. We need easements. Is that >> Actually, the base I believe we already have easements. >> Okay. Okay. >> For base, right? >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Not A and B. Okay. >> A and B we >> That's a >> I think they're both in the easement. >> I think we have easements for all three of them. >> Okay. Okay. The map doesn't show that, but okay. Okay. >> It might not be um full easement like as in right away. It may be drainage utility easement which does not show up on the Okay. So, if it's drainage utility easement, it'll just be basically prescriptive over the property and not >> So, other than just communicating what we're doing, uh is that really what the concern is with talking to the residents? >> Yes. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yep. That's fine. >> That's cuz that's going to be my thing is like if the only people we have to talk to is B and B is not a big deal, then like let's just Yeah. But if it's not an issue, then okay. Then yeah, I'm fine. I'm on board. >> Where are they? These uh let's just add one question. Um oh, the baffles. Are they going to be at on the road or just just downstream by 10 ft or something? >> Use the mic. >> It'll be just a Um Excuse me. Sorry. I know. >> It'll be just like a regular man manhole structure. Um so, they'll be at at curb level. >> But >> They'll be in the road. >> It'll be close to the road so you guys just run a hose. >> Yeah, we just run the hose down them. It's it's just a a deeper structure um with a baffle in it yeah to hold back the water and drop the sediment out. >> Septic tank. >> Yeah. >> Yep. Okay. Any other concern or questions? And okay, so we have a motion and a second for the whole enchilada. [clears throat] Um All those in favor say aye. >> Aye. >> Aye. >> Aye. All those opposed say no. Motion carries 5 to 0 on the item J. >> Yep, good evening Mayor and members of Council. This is the 2026 trail improvements for Territorial Road. Again, I will do my best to to handle any questions. I am not nearly as versed in trails as I would like to think I am. Um so background is the Parks Commission did identify this priority as a trail segment that they'd like to see. This was back in 2023. I think it was priority number three or four on their list. Um connection from the Territorial Trail to Rush Creek Landing development is identified in blue on the picture and was provided in your packet. Connections uh connects the developments west of East French Lake to Elm Creek Park Reserve. Preliminary total cost for this for an estimate is $715,000. This does align with Rivers Park District's regional or Rush Creek regional trail, which I did send out in a weekly update recently that it was a very large document. Um likely be able to see that in the future when that gets all hammered out, but um not quite ready yet for um public consumption. So our cost participation is still um up in the air with that document and so that will be something that we need to discuss and talk about as well for how much we'll be reimbursed. It has to be on a uh regionally significant section of trail that the reimbursement would happen. So we'll have to work with what the definition of that looks like. I know Councilmember Fasching has stopped by my office and talked about that at length and I appreciated the time to be able to talk about regionally significant trail reimbursement for this time, but it would be part of their trail overall. So they would look to have per- permanent easement over this portion of the trail if and when it were to occur. At least the portion along Territorial Road, not necessarily from Territorial Road. I'm going to use the mouse to Rush Creek or along Rush Creek Road or Parkway cuz that one is not where the original trail would go. Um the original trail would go south along towards the bridge. >> [laughter] >> Um there's some significant challenges that was explained to me by Jason. There are some flood plain impacts that we could have some extensive permitting needed. Um apparently there is significant area around this culvert that I'll say that needs to be um widely identified. There's very tight constraints for space. Um could be some wetland impacts. Again, permitting and heavy permitting would be required and costly mitigation needed. And then also we need permanent and temporary construction easements because we do not have those along this property line either. And those are two owners that I'm not sure. Um there there's some easement here. However, the issue that we have is that there is street or power poles that run right down the side of that easement and we have to either go on one side or the other side of the power poles and or move them. Um none of which of the three are cheap, easy, or fun likely. And so if we have to go on the inside of them and by inside I mean away from the roadway so that we separate the road and the trail, we have to get easement from those property owners. >> And that house is pretty close. >> And the house is very close, yes. >> And >> And if you go the other way then now you have um you know, the ability to have almost an on-street kind of trail. >> Right. >> And um as we've learned over time it's not ideal to have an on-street trail. We would also have to make sure that we would would identify with River Trails Park District to be able to say that we get reimbursed for that because if we're putting in a trail that's not going to get reimbursed anyways, now we've just foregone that reimbursement ability to >> So regarding that strip of property in the corner there, >> Yep. >> um So it looked to me like there's not enough even right away right at the intersection there. Right at the >> You talking about right here at the intersection? >> Yep, right there. That's only 10 ft from the road edge to that property line. Now again, maybe there's a problem with the property line, but I don't know how you do that. Um And we have not talked to this property owner yet, right? >> About this thing. Excuse me, we have not. So this is just one identified by the parks commission. Um we are I'm going to say a little struggling with the fact that two of the three of their first three priorities we've um not been able to successfully do and or have delayed based on other projects being known about um or significant issues related to can't get easements. So we are trying to do our best to figure out what the next level of effort is for this one because it is another significant um lift to be able to get off the trail or off the road and and be able to put a trail together. And so it is uh something that's it's a tough push and request and we understand that as staff members. So task one would be done. So I'm going to go back and try to follow us um PowerPoint as best as possible. Only task one activities will be done and then we will subsequently talk to council before we do any other tasks. I don't know what's listed in task one. I apologize. I did not read his staff report or his identifying answers, but my guess is task one is basically asking to see if we can get easement before we even move >> [cough] >> I don't know what's in task one. >> Drainage collection design plans and specs and it's >> Okay, that's the full process. And so I would say that even within task one um I would be communicating with Jason on a significant basis to say if this is even possible, we're not going to there's no point in spending dollars to see if it's even possible if we don't think it's even going to be worth it. So I would say that even task one might not even be completed if this was approved to move forward with. Um but to put any level of effort into it, Jason needs a project to be able to build against. So >> Yeah, unless he can secure I'll make a motion to approve as long as we get approval to get the easement before we spend the dollars. >> Okay. Oh. >> I mean the >> Before we spend significant dollars. We will have to spend >> We will I will have to spend some dollars and be able to have Jason help me with just understanding where the roadway or the trail layout would be and whatnot, but once we identify here's the easement we need, talking with the landowners is going to be item number one. >> Yeah. Well, the landowners are Telemarketing International. >> Yes. >> So, okay. >> Oh, that's I I didn't realize that that changed owners. >> It did. >> Yes. >> Oh, it did. >> Yeah. So, it seems like the first six bullet points of that task one are all kind of research things before, you know, that I would think the majority of the hours are spent spent on the final design and plans and drawing and all that, but maybe if you look at those first six and can um find out if that gets us to a point with Three Rivers where they can say, you know, pass or play on their end. >> Okay. >> And then we can decide what we're willing to do um moving forward. Um also, I I looked at the the Hennepin County GIS and I know their lines are not always accurate. Um but I am concerned that we don't have that full 20 ft under easement already. Uh >> [snorts] >> at least based on on those lines. And so, that would need to be validated and you know, what what is missing if anything. I think that we'd want to know that pretty early on. >> We can we'll certainly do that, Council member Fasching. There's no problem at all. >> All right. So, how do we word this such that so, we're not approving all of task one. We're approving >> So, Council member Fasching, did make a motion to say that Um >> Just to get a an agreement with the easements from the landowner. >> Yes. So, a motion that would approve us to move forward up to the point of negotiating with landowners for the easement. And then we'd have to come back to Council, it sounds like, from that motion. >> Okay. >> Which again may make a little bit of work. I just want to make sure it's clarified. We might have to do a little work of what the design looks like because I have to bring something to the landowners to say, "Here's >> This is what >> We're not going to spend all $50,000. >> No. No. >> And we're talking about a few hours and a couple of phone calls, and that's it. >> Okay, I got a motion from Scott. >> I'll second that. >> Okay, any more discussion? All those in favor say I. >> I. >> All those opposed say no. Carries 5 to 0. Hearing no objections, we'll be adjourned. We're adjourned.