e July 9th indeed city council stand pledge to the flag the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all all right I need a motion of second for the agenda need to make a change to the agenda correct yeah need but I need a motion to Second oh before that okay I'll motion I'll [Music] second yeah I have um a temporary gambling permit um for a raffle at the Magnus to be held uh 97 of 24 so is that like F1 does that work yes please and it's a gambling permit for magnet any other changes all right I got a motion a second all those in favor say I was oppos say no motion Carri is 5 to Z consent I need a motion a second I'll make the motion but I want to pull C out and do it on its own um well then we need to then we need to back that out all right because because you might be voting against it I'm going to I'm going to abstain from it I'll tell you why okay well then we need to make it a agenda um so you just motion that you're approving a b d yep um okay we'll put c as separate yeah we can do that right after the consent agenda right after F1 or whatever yeah see okay with that change um me a second I'll second okay any discussion I had one question um on the payment of claims we had well a number of payments to Ellers and one was regarding discussion related to utility Tiff is that U was that um related to the conversation we're going to have around Territorial Road and those utility that is correct that is correct that was all I hand um I had a question on the fog seal um you want to have that during that discussion item because it sees moved out of the consent agenda oh whoops yep I nothing anything else anybody got anything else okay we got a motion a second all those in favor say I I I all those opposed say no consent with the amendment passes to zero and then we are on to item C yeah y um need a motion a second almost I'll second okay discussion uh the reason that I am going to abstain I'm going to tell you guys uh I am going to contact uh this company and have them do my driveway at the same time so um I've been planning it ever since we went and looked at all the I just don't want no you're so sold on shiping fog seal now that you're going to do your own driveway that's a big ship monso I mean I'm not knocking I think it's great I'm just saying that's a big uh buy into the product I think that's a good thing awesome um it's okay yeah I agree so it's going to last me longer than it does you though that is true how come so the big Delta here was a unit price on huge material yeah I I guess my concern is always that a we're not specting these correctly but I suspect we did because one come did they just not want the bid is that how this works or what is going on we didn't ask but yeah it was a significant like over double it was just for that one and it was material it wasn't even labor anything yeah it it might have just been that they they padded that that this often happens especially we did bid it kind of late um in the year we would have typically bid this a month or two earlier when their schedules are kind of booked up okay to me it's probably an indication that one of these companies is still looking for more work the other one probably has plenty okay yeah big we've heard the story many times before anybody have anything else okay I got a motion a second all those in favor say I I all those opposed say no item C I'm going to abstain you know I'm understand carries four to zero on to open forum is anybody here for open Forum anybody online for open Forum you are here for open Forum okay limited to three minutes for non-agenda items state your name and address no counil action will be taken and items will be referred back to staff Anthony Albright 14101 Berkshire Lane North um two two Council sessions ago the council talked about uh Zoom AI transcription for uh council meeting minutes I wanted to support the uh the idea that that should go forward one of the council's objections to uh AI transcription was that you may not be able to discern between the voices and the transcript uh and there is a solution to that and that is that each of the council members has their own device that they join the meeting with uh and that will separate out the voices in the trans uh in the uh transcript as long as the council members can remember to mute and unmute themselves uh so I wanted to make sure that the council was aware of that uh functionality I use it constantly at work and uh we use it for our records uh for transcription uh at Infinite Campus so um I wanted to you know bring that to the council's attention in case that wasn't clear uh so that you have that as an Avenue uh for cost savings thank you thank you is anybody online I do not have anything all right we close open Forum staff consultant Council updates Z yep good evening mayor members of council uh I want to let you guys know that I'll be out of the office next week all week you need anything good luck you can reach out the department heads or to Ay in my absence if you need anything um we are working through the Federal grant items that are needed to re uh secured the funding for the Wellhead treatment plant um there has been a holdup with shipo which we are working through currently and I had a um email today that says that they're trying to figure out what shipost um big holdup is essentially they don't want to make a determination on the for whatever reason I'm unsure but I don't know which one of the Mark's brothers that is yeah shipo is the state historical preservation office so they are the last step before actually getting it approved by the federal government and they don't know what to they don't want to make it a termination on the project do they have that option um yes don't they have like a 60-day r they do and that's what they took all of their 30 days and then they said at the last day we don't need to we don't want to make a a termination so it's back in your so so we are still in the works we're still figuring it out we're trying our best to keep moving forward hopefully I have a call tomorrow with santex group um Jason's been on the calls with us so far everything's good on the federal level it's just shipo State Historical preservation office that is holding up the process right now so and and they they did have a 30-day they had a 30-day window they took their entire 30 days on the last day they said we don't want to make a determination thank you very much what does that mean yeah that means they just said we don't want to do anything we're going to pass and you can figure it out for the federal government because the federal government has their version of ship so they have their federal government which I cannot remember the ter the um acronym for but essentially that one has a 60 to 90day window for a response back so we're trying to get State Historical preservation office to uh government I'll tell you it's about as fun as um it can ever be but and then the last thing is um it was mentioned the last meeting that we don't have the new state flag it was ordered at the last meeting after it but it will not be received until July 15th okay so that's why it's not hung at tonight's meeting but all right take that off my list take it off your list of things that but that's why it's not hung is cu it doesn't get here till next weekend but we'll hang it up as soon as we get it that's all I got okay thank a um so as a reminder the August 13th is the primary election and so that council meeting is going to happen on the 12th that Monday um but we will also need to schedule a canvas meeting that needs to happen two to three days after August 13th so I need to know if we can get a quorum either that Thursday or Friday so August 15th or 16th and what time we can hold that meeting is very short um it's just a resolution canvasing the results and then what was the uh this one we usually do in the really early in the morning top in real quick and do we have yeah if you do it at I don't have my calendar in front of me but if you do it at 7 o' in the morning I bet I can make e day okay what what day early in the morning now the 14th or 15th of August is uh the week of the primary El the would a night meeting work I don't have child care and I'd have to really look I can probably get here at 7:00 if I if we needed to I could probably get here at I just know my mornings I can usually sneak in for a little bit do a quick thing those two days the same two days in the evening I I we just need one that works for a quorum yeah yeah I I can have everything ready and you should be AV I can get back evening or morning I I guess either either one for sure evening either one or for sure morning either one for sure evenings and the other two to weigh in I don't want to commit oh my God yeah do you got 30 days to morning I are pretty easy if sounds like morning oh morning okay do a 700 a.m. then on one of those two days doesn't matter uh Thursday or a Friday which one works easier for Friday works Friday Friday Fridays 7 so we'll go August 16th 7:00 a.m. Friday for the canvas you got it be thank you all right um I gave most of my update on the uh previous meeting but uh one one item um we found out um recently that the street lights on Territorial Road um down by semstone um had had all the copper wire stolen from the full run down there um it's 10 lights um it's considerably heavy gauge copper wire um the replacement cost is $60,000 hey and do we have insurance we don't have insurance for that kind of stuff we're self-insured um we have insurance they will not cover yeah you mean they won't cover theft no they will not cover the transmission lines that's what they they cover the wires in the pole but not between the polls you got it and can we get insurance to cover between the polls so technically we could but the coverage is only I don't remember the numbers but essentially we would have to pay 50,000 of the 60,000 cuz only 10% would be covered so at this point it wasn't Point well I'm not worried about this I'm wored about future ones in general future on so the um the additional cost of the premium I don't think outweighs the so context this is for lights yeah how does wiring for Lights cost $60,000 the gauge of the wire so it doesn't the power doesn't deteriorate along the run so they have to have a thick gauge to start run it down and that's that's the cost how the heck does that uh okay not leave the person sitting there when they cut the wire again he wants to know how the person got it and didn't die of them doing it well well if they did it then they just got that's it there's people doing this all over they doing St Paul and how long does it take to take the wires out of 10 BS I don't know it's a great question you haven't tried it yet I haven't tried it but they just there's no cameras around could have CAU this around they just dug them on the ground yeah there nothing down there I mean that you access the the uh there's a uh a plate that you open up um go in there cut the wires tell everyone how to do it this is good this is good this is it's in conduit they can pull it out and then they'll just scool it there and put it on the back of the pickup and off you go so are we looking at getting like better locks or security for the base of those poles there is or what you got the maintenance access that you need to have um to check wiring or if you replace wiring in in the pole itself you get that that's what that's there for what we're looking at doing um is putting a a stainless steel band around it and crimping out really tight um but that's not to say that they can't get through and cut so yeah the deterence is min minimal the other thing that you can do is leave the the lights on all the time so they're powered all the time so that makes it more difficult for them to cut through the the live wires are they LED light are they LED lights not currently if we did we would upgrade it to LED lights which is not that be about 7,000 000 can you move the maintenance spot like plate up like just get out of really cuz then you got to uh add more copper wire to get up to the maintenance wire and then back down out and carry if we do move to the LEDs is this a electrical code problem because then you should be able to drop the gauge dramatically it could be that if we put LEDs that might be an opportunity okay cuz then it yeah shouldn't be 60 g i this is kind of dumbness I don't even know how you deal with something like without it I mean how do you prevent it from happening again I mean you just put it back in it's just like oh they know it work that's my concern is I think we should fix the lights but we fix the lights they know they can get them they know when they can get them they know how to do it and they just come rip it all out again then we're just basically feeding them money and if we don't have anything to deter or stop them I don't know I just feel like we're setting ourselves up yeah the only thing I think is it's the opportunity to look at you know the off difference between the the gauge of the wire and the and the cost of the LED fixture and aluminum you can switch to that too I don't that they're not stealing aluminum so yeah I I don't know I yeah we're just dabling up here but just how can you I look I can look I can talk with the contractor and get some other options about if we can replace it with aluminum wire if that makes sense or if it's a light gauge we can put in there to reduce the cost well I would like they could put like an extra Loop in the box that would deter them from pulling the wire through that would you know loop around something I mean there it's got to be they engineering aspects that kind of close those Loops I mean I mean he's been working with this in several places and you know the contractor that I'm using and they he hasn't got a great solution for it at this time all you can try and do is deter them from doing it can you hook a direct line to about 5,000 volts to the to the pole itself we can try and do that the poll and you're done all right you have any other good news more good news all right that's enough good evening mayor and members of council um I've been able to locate uh resting place for engine 11 old engine 11 um I don't have all the specifics I'll have it uh on next Council but um it sounds like um Ukraine would like the engine to use in one of their fire departments currently they have about 2,000 firefighters that would ultimately end up in a uh rural Department over in Ukraine um this is through um one of the nonprofits here in the states and they have all the shipping and everything scheduled to ship it out and over there um but I'll have more specifics from um the gentleman I spoke to today um for next C I can't be cheap cheaper than new engine government's paying for that evening mayor members of the council just two things um we had two compliance reviews one was hazardous waste generator compliancy review and then my POST Board review which is done every 3 years and we have passed both of them all right John uh August 1st I'm wondering if the council's available for a workshop on the master plan no no likely not that's a Thursday night no no what is it so that's two prime soccer season Prime socer SE so we'll we'll reach out during the weekly updates According to some different options is this with the Planning Commission is that okay you know we have two meetings a month I know they have one but we have two they're welcome to come to one of ours on a Tuesday night we we have some planing Commissioners that have conflicts okay [Laughter] all right I I don't have any updates Amy um just real quickly and staff may already know about this I just haven't had a chance to check in with them the office of cannabis management has issued some updated information of model ordinance um some things that'll be useful to the city um one of the things that's that's kind of makes this a little bit more of an urgent issue is the fact that they are allowing for cultivation to start ahead of everything else yet this year if for some people I don't know we did have a conversation with staff um one of my colleagues who is far more expert at this cannabis stuff than I am um we met with staff and so one of the things to really focus on is making sure that the zoning ordinance is up to date and ready to go the office of cannabis management is not super clear on timing but approximately August 12th is when they think they're going to be is kind of a date that you know is is a benchmark to try to to meet so um to date I know the city council hasn't adopted a moratorium ordinance um but that is an option to buy some time for um controlling any of these uh any of the aspects of cannabis um including cultivation um through at least January 1st of 2025 it's not too late if you wanted to consider doing that so so I can keep working with staff on it but it's just it kind of came out just in the last week or so and um it seems like it's really kind of going full steam ahead just for clarity when you say cultivation you mean like residents at home or like the Deans converting a farm to cannabis what can I call or both how big of an operation yeah well there's there's a that's not a simple question but or not a simple answer but it is mostly cultivation um not by individuals but on a mass scale okay okay my understanding from one of my colleagues the one we met with staff with um is that the like an Elk River they've had um a tour of a facility somewhere I think and um it's really more like industrial than just somebody opening up a field so it's it's more like you know working in a chemistry lab where you you know put on your all your gear and and and it's not really farming in a traditional sense let's see and I thought weren't they I thought these were controlled via are these not the lottery aspects that's for retail as I understand it that's for sales um providers I can I can transmit to staff the information that came out from the office of cannabis management and we can continue to work on I just wanted to bring it to your attention in case you wanted to consider moratorium because it's it you do still have the ability to do that if you want to have time a little more time to to think about how you want to proceed do we you don't have to but it is an option do we is our ordinance currently take into account this kind of process at all we have one for where you could smoke it but we don't have one we have we have one for smoking it and that's it nothing for production no thank you probably should put something together it should be extended out then for sure I mean if they came out with it a week ago and we already got to have a deal by the 12th it's government for you well I would say that a lot of cities have have put it they put the moratorium in place like last year um not everybody did and and you know it's it wasn't required um it's just you know and you still don't have to even now if you don't want to um it's just an option that you have to kind of make your to you know have a more deliberative process about how do we have a Zone where that would I'm just trying to think if we don't have the moratorium and we have a Zone where someone wanted that they have to come in and get a zoning change no we don't have that nope nothing any have nothing so they could just do it without asking or they have to come in and get it's not listed so they have to Comm in and get approval to do it like where do we probably look at as similar to manufacturing use okay so you wouldn't even need a permit's I'm not too worried about I'm more worried about the aspect that Paul's going to have to deal with yeah that's the problem that's where the problem I could care less if somebody makes the stuff City staff is working on stuff with right Amy so just time I know John's working on it heading the process it won't be done by August 12th so is is there an interest in a Mortor until January 1 it would go through January 1st of 2025 so we can understand it I'd like to yeah so I don't feel like August 12th is coin I don't I don't I don't have a what we got one I think staff suggest one just so that we can be aware of and have an application process is there any reason not to you know think of any I don't think this thing's going to Rolling as quick as people are worried about but that's probably true has anybody approached the city about doing this um we did have one did you I thought we had one that looked at and said hey and then I don't think they they didn't go any further than call I think that was it just verbally yeah yeah just verbally a call was it that's more even nothing well I don't I I I I'm on the I me I could go either way to it's like I'm with you my biggest concern is the the policing of it and I just want to make sure that this doesn't all of a sudden pop up in like an R1 District or an R2 District like my concern is is that if it's going to happen it happens in what I would say are the correct places for it to happen which is Operation you know in the right Zone but it sounds like right now we don't have anything that even says what the right zone is right so is there an interest in a moratorium so I guess that's my only concern is right now someone could our one District come and try to do it that's what I'm saying kind of leaning towards like there's it's not it's not assigned to a a zoning District that's my only concern not that it's happening but that it happens in the right Zone well that's the simplest solution for now moratorium is a simple solution it buys us time to have the okay well so where are you at D yeah I guess I'm okay with the moratorium I think it's low risk you know that it would something would happen in time frame but John can you put some together yeah this would be a public hearing it would be yeah we do have there's a a model moratorium ordinance that the league of Minnesota city has put together a lot of cities have adop so you'll see it on August 12th yeah we can we can put that together I can work with John on that 13th that's all I have August 12th is the council meeting Travis nothing I have nothing Dave nothing for me m I have a couple things so well was brought to me a while ago but it's kind of beginning to loom I know franchise fees is is an interesting topic to talk about at all but franchise fees specific to egg property so there was a my understanding is from talking to the farmers and I think Zach you verified some of this too but the the way the law was changed right now up until this year the farmers a lot of the farmers from the egg space have an extra um hookup for their gas it's a high volume gas it's extremely expensive monthly they pay for it for about 2 months and they lock out for the other 12 months of the year this fall they won't be able to lock out again because of the law that was changed they can't shut off they were told this they a couple of them came to me I went to Zach Zach you confirmed this correct so and we charge the higher meter yeah so it's based on the size of the meter not based on the usage of it and and you've checked we can we can control the franchise fees specific to egg so we could either say well in the past two months cost I'm pick a number $500 so instead of charging so 250 a month so 500 total for 2 months we just split that 500 over 12 months and get the same amount of Revenue or we just say we're not going to charge franchise fees on egg space I mean if if we want to continue to promote rural Fiel this is a significant cost that will hit the farmers and it's we have the control to help mitigate that and so I'm not see to solve it today but it is something I is anyone else interested in trying to solve this problem or see as a problem or am I the only one that that sees this particular piece this is something that solvable without impacting City Revenue I I don't think we're looking that we're trying to squeeze more Revenue out of the franchise P you and detest the thing anyway so right and you I don't know how stuck with it we are overall but we I I feel like you know this is a a Twist that wasn't anticipated when it was put in place and so we should fix it okay so how did we mechanic how did we mechanic Al do that did we just two months of the year so it's charged with yep so it's charged based on the size of the meter it doesn't matter if it's egg or commercial or residential it's based on the size of the meter and it's a per month charge right so Center Point who handles all of the gas would then if the count was active as in the farmers need it it would then turn active and once it turns active then they get charged the franchise oh so they handle it yeah so Point handles it and then they just send us the revenue that's it so when it's active before they would just be active for those two months and they would lock out and they would go inactive and they would not be charged that fee while they're inactive so okay does that make sense yeah no it makes sense um then those size meters they these are substantial $4 for a residential one versus I think it's 250 or 300 for the size that we're talking um related to the dryers that the Corn Harvest corn dryers exactly corn soybean um I think there's roughly five or six M like this just an FY so you guys know number of them MH we would look specifically at the egg ones only though not based on a size so we would specifically call out egg and you can do that in the franchise fee okay yeah yeah gu if it's Revenue neutral I'm fine yeah yeah so can staff come with come we'll upate with yep perfect thank you um the other question is back in the day when I was a kid we used to have like a pet shop Clinic every year you come and get your rabies we stop doing that they're like super expensive to go on I mean just an office visit to see ofet these days is like 200 bucks we have a lot of pets in the neighborhood any chance on bringing that back or why' we get rid of it or tell me more I guess I don't know exactly why we got rid of it um I think part of the deal was with the Vets office also okay um and timing so cuz I know when iids they did it too still they also went to threeyear R y so some years you'd get hardly anybody here if anybody I I thought that's why they had petered out because they just didn't get many people even if we do it once every 3 years then so we're like helping I don't know I feel like it's a public service we can offer that if it's not too much work to manage I think it'd be good to get back on the we can talk talk to the vet's office again and okay um see but that I think the main reason was is the lack of people weren weren't coming anymore so that's why we got rid of it even though we've got to have 3,000 dogs in this city yeah yeah okay um and lastly I just want to say thank you Magnus I know I've reached out to a bunch of us I'd reach back out to them and got a tour of the the building there and more insight to what they do and so just thank you very much for them for reaching out and keeping us in look what they got going on okay um we are on to council business item G Three Rivers District Park District update good evening mayor and M C Al we have Kelly grman here yeah up here from through R Park District here to give a presentation you can take it away Kelly thank you very much yeah thank you can you hear me okay or should I move this closer we're good you're good okay great thank you mayor fellow council members my name is Kelly griman I'm the director of planning with Three Rivers Park District I've been here before and it's always a pleasure to come back uh today uh Zach and I have been talking and John about just doing a quick kind of update and overview of all the things that Three Rivers is working on within your University and then answer any questions or concerns that you may have this evening so with that I'm going to jump right in and you are welcome to interrupt me with your questions i' much rather that you got what you needed or wanted out of the presentation than uh trying to just hold it all to the end so just a quick snapshot as to some of the interesting things that your residents are doing within our Parks they have about 550 different annual passes uh from our swim ponds dog off leash areas boat trails our Alpine season pass um and then we have our rec Pass Plus program that I just want to take a moment and kind of highlight this is for households that maybe are economically disadvantaged and they can just call Three Rivers or go online and get a w Pass Plus card and then that gives them discounts or free access to equipment reservations programs camps Etc so anyone listening or any council members if you know people that this might apply to this is a a great program and within your community there's there's 43 households that currently have the rec Pass Plus card and one of the things that we look at when we do our surveys which are every five years is how many residents do you have within Dayton compared to the greater Suburban hennipin County and then we look at that percentage and we compare it to then the number of visits that we get from Dayton residents to our total visitations and the good news is you are right on the mark for what we would expect for your portion of the population uh Elm Creek of course is the most populated or the most popular Park that your residents visit with 23,000 plus visits in the summer and Rush Creek the most the closest Regional Trail we get 500 summer visits and the activity your residents like to do the most is hiking walking and running so looking at Elm Creek Park Reserve I'm going to assume that most people know all about Elm Creek since it is a pretty big land holding within the community and a very popular destination of your residence but it offers everything from hiking and snowshoeing to cross country skiing to Alpine skiing uh there's some snowmobiling there's a dog offleash area uh it's over 5,000 acres and it is a park that it is that we continue to reinvest in and some of the things we have in our next fiveyear plan is to really do all the pavement micros surfing or micros surfacing or reconstruction similar to how you guys maintain your roads here within Dayton we do the same thing for our Park trails our Park roads and our parking lots so uh I think almost all the payment in the park is scheduled for either maintenance or reconstruction over the next five years we have is there a plan online or someplace um I bike in that Park quite often and I'm running into road closed signs within the park you are within the Park yeah it should all be online but definitely feel free I have my email at the end of this that if you're not finding what you're looking for I be happy to find it and then get back to you with that information uh cuz some of the stuff is happening sooner than later and then some of it's not for another 3 to four years so um and I just don't have the specifics today of this is happening in the North End at you know this year and this is in the south end at this year uh part of the future Investments are replacing three Trail Bridges we're going to do a new overhead trail head parking lot uh by the Nature Center kind of in the West Center portion of the park Ada improvements throughout the park kind of tied to any pavement improvements similar to what I heard you guys talking about earlier we also are obligation obligated to do all of those when we touch any of the pavement surfaces so we're going to be doing that and then within our winter Recreation Area looking at new outdoor lighting uh replacing the rough on the Chalet it's just kind of at the end of its useful life and then Tubing Hill conveyor replacement similar you know it's functional for so long and then things start to not work so well and we like to replace things before it gets to the point of no return and then uh looking at mountain bike parking lot expansion probably in the next 5 years as well so moving on to Regional Trails which is probably the number one growing thing that we have throughout our entire system and when we look at the city of Dayton we have about 20 mil a little less than 20 miles envisioned for your community and the interesting thing when I was just looking at your website today something that struck me is we're right here that's one of your taglines and it talks about the connections to Natural Resources We've Got Roots and it talks about the sense of connection and deep ties to history and Heritage and we play outside talks about Parks trails and rivers uh and the opportunity to immense or immerse yourself in nature all three of those things really align well with our vision for the Regional Trail system in your community and that these would be destination Regional trails and that they would be tied to your natural resources and provide community members an opportunity to connect with them experience them and and to preserve them from now into the future so the five Regional excuse me the four Regional Trails within your community is the West Mississippi River Regional Trail of course that follows the river the Diamond Lake Regional Trail it's on the West Side runs north south The Rush Creek Regional Trail on the south side of the community just really ties in very just the very very south border between Elm Creek Park Reserve and kind of like the bton lane area and then the medicine Lake Regional Trail we also call that the Elm Creek connector but that's that connection between the river Corridor to Elm Creek and some of the the trail we worked with the city or the city worked with three rivers to implement along Pine View as well as in the River Hills development when do you think that so there's a connection needed between Pine View and the River Hills yeah is there a timeline when you guys plan on doing that yeah I'll skip to that slide so this is the piece that you're talking about the medicine Regional Trail connection or expansion the North End through River Hills is already done so that's shown on red and then the south end a Pine View and then just a a touch down south uh Diamond Lake Road is also in place so that gap between essentially North and South Diamond Lakes is what remains and that's really going to be tied to uh development especially for the piece that's proper between the roads that runs north south because that's all privately owned land and and we're kind of subject to willing Sellers and we're subject to the timing of development so when when that gets developed we would like to work with the c and the developer to secure an outlet to to run that Regional Trail and then the pieces along the roads really would be subject if you guys are going to be doing a road project we'd like to partner with you or we get that other connection so we've got a continuous Corridor does that answer your question satisfactory thank you yeah oh I have one more question how do you guys plan on getting are you going to go under or over how you going to handle North Diamond lak Ro uh to be determined okay y but usually if it's a major road we would try to do it at an intersection if Crossing that grade without a controlled feature like should it be signalized we look at or is just signage okay and then we would start looking at the grade separated stuff thank you Kelly do you look at uh any of that private property now and and talk to any of land owners you know we haven't been super proactive on this quarter that's something we could definitely talk to the city um we did do a long range planning or master plan several years ago and worked with the community members at at that time so people that owned land then definitely knew that this was an area of interest but we haven't extended a a letter or phone call to anyone currently and and sometimes we don't do we don't take a proactive approach based on how much money we have in our acquisition account or if we think it's going to do more harm than good where all of a sudden community members get very excited and they think that this is happening tomorrow when that's not the case um so there's some some really thoughtful messaging and then making sure the council's really informed so that you you'll field calls and we would want you to know that no we're just out here if you want to sell um but as you talk to your residents if you know people that are interested by all means feel free to send them our way we'd love to work with them because there's three people that that could connect that whole thing I'm looking at too like there's only three families that really prevent that from happening and that would solve our other issue too but with the trail we were talking about earli that's why I asked when I saw the blind I was like okay so the question I guess is and maybe we can take this offline but something to go back with is if if the city could secure that land for that trail how quickly would you guys put the trail in that's a good question I I don't yeah we don't have it in our CIP our CIP is a 5year thing uh we definitely like to work in partnership with community and when there's an opportunity to to kind of like strike when the iron's hot we like we like to do that um we also they'll use a lot of federal funds to build our Trail infrastructure and right now the way the regional solicitation process works through the Met Council this area would not score well and be very difficult to get funding through that mechanism which we're working very hard to get that update in to reflect more of the rural and the development communities within hening County and Beyond but right now it's skewed very heavily towards more urban areas and so we same problems as the city is do in how do you so you were talking about putting this into a CIP except whenever house goes up for sale you guys seem to have the cash for that yeah it's a different funding program and the Met Council actually provides us 75% matched for acquisition whether or not they want to do it counts answer so um different different different Grant sources did different um processes Al together all right and we we couldn't move forward with construction without the land rights in place anyways similar to this Council we really don't want to be exploring condemnation in any way shape or form either so we're really subject to where there's existing right away or where there's willing to call in that case it just seems like now would be a very cheap time to be doing that because oh for a number of reasons but well part of that path goes on South diamond and we're red doing South Diamond next year right or we're going to mail and overlay overlay it not mail and overlay just overlay okay yeah okay back okay so the West Mississippi River Regional Trail as you mentioned we've been buying quite bit of property along the river Corridor and it's really trying to create a Greenway space and make the river more publicly available as an asset to the community in the region so people can actually access the Mississippi River whether it's just for for viewing or for recreation such as fishing kaying boating Etc right now when we look at the whole river Corridor in Suburban henen County there's actually very few places for community members to go and access the river and Dayton has one of the most pristine uh River pieces left that feels very natural and Wild and the between the A and the B on this map which is roughly from the Gooden Island area to North Diamond Lake Road for most of that it's just one parcel between the road and the river so that's an area that we're keenly interested in um it's also happens to as you guys also found out suddenly a high priority for henpen County to reconstruct the Dayton River Road and we would like to work in partnership with them to build the trail and get that all done and assembled at one time so uh that caught us by surprise and that is something we're looking at plugging into rcip I know there's been some conversations about who pays for what but as a Regional Trail and we have a long range plan with that the city has adopted and I I believe we even have an yeah we have an agreement even for this so the costs associated with the trails are would be the costs born by Three Rivers the the city should not be on the hook for the trail portions of any of those road projects so between now and 29 the County Planning are redoing all that so you're saying between now and 29 you think the the trail will go the ENT between a and b um um not past um it doesn't go south of B I think it does go south of B it will go south of b um but it will not go north of I'm gonna ask Jason maybe he can pull up the M what's the road that's the dirt road right on F Vicksburg it will not go north of Vicksburg cuz that has not been identified as a number of year yet the count count is still trying to figure out what year they looking so it's like halfway between A and B to be I will say that we are all learning information rather rapidly and I have seen maps that hat say to be determined but then had conversations where they told me dates um so you guys get surprised by the county too yeah and we work very closely with them but I think they got a whole lot of money and now they're looking at spending it and there's been communities throughout hennipin County forever that have said Hey where's our pieace where's our piece and then they got money and now they're here and you're like oh no like we didn't plan and anticipate it so it it's a really good thing to have that investment it also puts a lot of communities in a really tough situation um because the cost participation policy not every Community is in a financial position to because we pay County taxes and we have use city taxes to pay for County RS yeah we're aware I'm not going to comment for I you're fine so I'm I'm curious or confused actually because of the number of properties that have been purchased along the River Road and full disclosure I live on the LI River Road U but what I'm confused where I get a little bit confused is the goal to to own all of the river between a and C or or is it just touch points along there I think if if there's an opportunity and there's willing sellers to secure that H and make it open space and to work with the community and the city to think about what are your local needs and how do we tie that in and what are the regional needs and how do we tie that in and it becomes one solid Greenway and we're thinking 50 years out to me that makes sense and to Three Rivers that makes sense we're not looking at doing this tomorrow we really wait for the phone to ring we have with the exception of notifying a few residents when we've purchased a property and we've let neighbors know we're not actively out there knocking on doors uh similar to the corridor we just talked about people are very interested in selling and what we've learned is they're not very happy about the road and it's not even the condition of the road it's the amount of traffic and the speed and there's no shoulder and the many of the houses not all of them are so close that they don't want to live there anymore and I think there's also some restrictions on this Corridor it's part of the Mississippi River critical habitat Corridor and so there's certain um setbacks that people have to follow when they develop or redevelop their property there's a lot of steep slopes there's flood planes there's wet Wetlands so um you certainly can have houses on there there are houses on all of those Parcels or most of them it's just a matter of if you're going to buy a new parcel or you're going to buy a parcel and build your dream home are you going to do it on that road and I think what the some of the community members are finding is it makes more sense to sell to Three Rivers and move on then to improve their properties and try to sell it when the road condition is what it is so does because not everybody's going to want to sell yep along that stretch and and I think that's fine I mean good to hear that that's the the 50-year plan if you will um but does that prevent the trail from going through no doesn't and I I think that's a really good point in there are certain areas that we're going to need private easements or acquisition to make the trail work whether it's just a little sliver or they call it a strip taking I guess or there's a big Ravine and we need to pull that that trail farther off and kind of fix the Ravine and maybe Bridge it there's a handful of those spots along this Corridor where we absolutely know we need to have Ravines and some of the dalheimer properties that we bought probably seven years ago now are some of those uh but in most cases uh I think moving forward there truly just opportunities to at a future date have more open space and maybe pull the trail further we won't be able to do that in the County's time frame of having us big buffer between the road and the trail for most of the corridor but when the trail gets reconstructed in 30 years hopefully we'll have enough land that there's big stretches where as a trail user you feel like you're having a linear Park experience rather than biking or walking right adjacent to that road okay and one more question along the line so one of the houses you purchased is abandoned Y and sitting there which isn't a good situation for us as a community yep so there's two houses that we recently acquired and one of them we use it's called better Futures they used to have I think a tie at henin County I don't know if they still do but it is a program that is dedicated to helping people that maybe are hard to employ or don't have a lot of employment skills and it teaches them about construction so we worked with them and unfortunately it just took so much longer than anticipated for them to mobilize and take care of the whole property and then in the midd middle of that we got all of the rain and so it's taken us longer than anticipated to restore the property because the I don't want to say that the slope is not stable but is in a point where you wouldn't want to disrupt it because of how wet it is and then the second parcel with a home on it uh we are not using that program because of the condition of of the house and the assets within the house so that one that demo will take just a few weeks from start to finish so if the house isn't repairable you guys get rid of the house is that's just the house sit there yeah yeah we always our plan is to always do the demo in one case it just took uh an unacceptable length of time yeah that one seems to be well the house is down now yep the other one looks looks Terri terrible and yeah the other one we purchased looking terrible and then with our workload we just timed it a certain way but it is schedule for removal this this summer okay thank you yeah um any other questions on the west Mississippi River Regional Trail before I move on so I guess I've got one and when we think maybe 50 60 years out I would say that everyone up here maybe I'm wrong maybe it's longer than 50 c maybe it's 100 years let's just say 100 years yep there will be a bridge my guess is across the riv some point yeah are you guys accounting for that in your plans of making sure that that getting getting land from Three Rivers Park District is beyond difficult and I understand why I I'm not saying that's right or wrong but we all know what going to go I think we all have a j idea where it's going to go and so my question is is are you guys trying to acquire that land to make some play to get seven times the land someplace else from somebody like that's I guess are you thinking about that with your Trail I very much appreciate the concern because it's also incredibly painful for staff to have to go through that process it's Zack and I can attest to and Jason um we would like to avoid where there's that overlap at all possible and it is a lot easier for us to not acquire land that another agency needs and so if if those land needs are known and well documented and there's agreement to exactly where that's going to happen we would love to know about it and we can stay clear of it I'm no expert but if you look at Highway 10 across the street and Armstrong they buil built that out like they're ready for it and I know Ramsey approaches us once a year to try to convince us all we need to build a bridge that I think here nobody up here wants right now right now that's just up here well I can only speak for people up here I can't speak you know for everyone so but give us some conversations I just I think we know where it's going to go we know where it's going to go on their side Armstrong is definitely where it's connected but on our side it could it it's hard but it's not going to be behind you and it's not you know like there's a general area it's going to be and I just want to make sure that we're not in a whole holding p land swap situation 100 years from now that we didn't think yeah the other thing I would imagine that that would not be a City Bridge no no so just kind of hypothetically playing it out in that case the good news is you're not the one that would have to go through that very painful andate but you said you guys don't like to go through that we know yeah no there you no and a matter of fact often if we know about something like that and the city will need an easement or the county would need an easement and we're to expand Road we'll actually at closing have them put those easements in place before we own it it all kind of happens at the same time to avoid that exact thing I think we asked some of that on North dond and Dayton roll that property you guys just quiet there it came in too late but we have well we kind of have a plan to to work with you on that yeah okay yeah all right thank you yep so then there's the Diamond Lake Regional Trail that long range plan was adopted not too long ago and we're working with a Cooperative agreement are reviewing a Cooperative agreement right now that would be in front of the council hopefully in the next couple months um very similar in nature of this is not a trail that we want to have right adjacent to the road this is an area that's not yet developed it Prov or provides a great opportunity to try to secure open space as part of development so that you've got this linear park for your residents to use it and have some pretty good uh Regional connections talked about this one and then it's the Rush Creek Regional Trail Corridor this one is similar in my opinion to the West Mississippi River Regional Trail and that there's been a lot of land acquisition I just uh am showing a small piece of this Trail the portion that kind of that goes through Dayton it's hard to see on here but the Dayton boundary is that little black dash line so the trail kind of just comes up into Dayton in a few places and then all those red Aster are Parcels that uh We've recently purchased and so similar we're trying to assemble all the land rights once we have the land rights will be um trying to secure funding to put that trail in place as well so I've got a another question for you at 81 in territorial yeah how do you all plan to get people across that an underpass you're going to do an underpass yeah so you guys were very thoughtful in your planning that you preserved some extra right of way and you would like to realign the road to Tian at a 90 Dee which provides us an opportunity to do an underpass we just have to be really careful about there's some pretty significant utilities that we have to further review and coordinate with we don't have like plans in place we've done some napkin sketches to sort of make sure that it all works and our staff is is confident that when that intersection is redone we can all work together with the county to get all that infrastructure in place at the same time so given that you need that INF that intersection redone to do that are you willing to partner with us in the cost of redoing the intersection we'd be willing to do the cost of the underpass we don't have Trails that's not what you that's not I mean you can't do it till we Reign the the the road so like it's beneficial for we also don't have any Trail construction planned in this area so the the urgency is different for us at the moment okay yeah okay it worth the shot yep I don't blame you for trying um one of the things that John and Zach have shared with me is like some concern about all the land that Three Rivers is interested in acquiring in some way shape or form and I think every Community is that's a responsible thing to be looking at is what does this really look like how does it change our community is that for is that what we want for our community what's what's the impact then on balancing our own budget and one of the certainly you can go online and you can look at research and you can find research I'm kind of using air quotations that tell you whatever story you want to find the research that I found and looked into a little bit more in depth about their methodology and really looking at similar situations to the work that that Three Rivers does really whatever loss of tax revenue you have by land that Three Rivers is acquiring is made up by the increases of property values of those adjacent nearby properties and in some cases like this research here shows an increase of 15 to 32% of those properties that are adjacent or nearby and the other thing is thinking about making Dayton a desirable place to live where it can play people want to live and they want to move close to or within communities that have a lot of amenities and one of those or some of the amenities they want are parks and trails in open space And so there's a lot of research by the realtors that also talk about you can that raises property values you can sell your home for more many people are looking to buy houses close to Trails Etc and um so I again I just wanted to say I think that that's really thoughtful you're thinking about it and we can share some numbers if you're interested at least what we think some of the tax revenue might be lost at least on the west Mississippi but it in general I think it kind of balances itself out over time and one of the other things Three Rivers does when we buy a piece of property we do a one-time payment of 180% of the local tax revenue to the city so if it's a thou if you're collecting $1,000 of taxes on the property right now we would write you a check then for 1,800 to help transition that property off of your tax RS um I understand like that's not a perfect or long-term solution necessarily but it is supposed to help kind of ease that that burden and so you can anticipate and plan for it how did you land at 180% or 190 it had to do with transitioning like 80% one year 60% one year 40% the next year and when you added all those percentages up it added up to be 180% and it's just a lot easier to do it in one trans one transaction so neither party is forgetting about it than remembering every year for 5 years or four years we need to Che write a check okay thank you yeah and that's actually um I can't recall if that's State Statute or Council sounds like some edict somewhere I I believe it's state statute not a met Council and then also Parks have benefits and trails have benefits Beyond just property values and desirable places to live it's people are more active they have more Recreation opportunities they live longer because of it they're healthier I don't think I'm telling you anything you don't know already but I just wanted to kind of pause and kind of reflect back to those three slogans that you have on your website um that I think it really kind of all aligns even though sometimes change can be hard I think we have a very common shared vision and it's just a matter of how we work together to implement it so with that I I will stand for any questions or concerns or additional discussion I'm good mayor else can I ask a question so you have uh the current property I believe you have a demo permanent on it is there an opportunity with to work with fire department to utilize that property well I should double check moving forward absolutely if this one is already under contract we might not be able to do sure okay um I'd be happy to follow up and let you know okay thank you anybody else have anything all right thank Youk you thank you so much have a great rest of your night you too okay on to item H payment management dollars yes good evening mayor members of council um with the chip and fog seal we have completed our projects for 2024 that were assigned or essentially planned for and we still have some remaining dollars left this was provided to you in the packet um $1.2 million was budgeted for in 2024 we've spent and done a few different projects and all of which have totaled about 990 um uh we have a remaining budget of 209,000 some things that again I'm just throw some stuff out there see if it would stick on the wall again trying to figure out if we wanted to spend the money or save it um we could pay Central Park um otherwise I was thinking other on there is a plan on um the pay management dur pave City Hall Park paring lot it's not in great shape but again I don't know if we want to do it or not Unsure how we doing on Department budgets um we're doing fairly well we had the one um repair from police that we weren't planning on and um the other part is the other part is the how are we going to pay for the street lights thing wiring yeah there this is pavement money though can this be used for street lights can be used for anything if you want oh can it okay I don't know if it was like so yeah we could do those for those again I didn't put it up there I probably could have um otherwise pave couple of dirt roads we have that arey smaller 117th and 121st otherwise save the money and or any other option like I saidis just Anapolis yeah what I I said just PVE it a road or try to get few less bit roads in town but again so we have those at least that we have those budget overruns I don't know what that would but left at you had indicated earlier you had some thoughts well I think that what you just said is is a valid um point to to consider also but having been a frequent flyer at the Central Park this Summer that uh dirt parking lot um is a good candidate for getting some improvement and you know again it's a good problem to have the park is is well used but on uh on many of the nights that that we were there cars are parked you know past City Hall out to the road and the the school parking lot is full and I I think that it would actually accommodate the number of cars that are there but it's really inefficient when it's a dirt parking lot and there's no lines because everybody Parks farther apart and I believe that that whole Center section could be two cars not one but everybody you know Parks like they're like they do in the winter and and so it's so it's really inefficient how people end up parking in there and I think it it could accommodate the use that has today better if it was a an asphalt parking lot with lined spaces so sorry that's I agree I think I think weaving in Central Park makes sense the question I have is next year we're set to do South Island Lake Road do we save the money roll it over and E Market to do pave the parking lot next year when we do sell time it in hopes of then getting a better deal because they're already there doing a bunch of work so that was my only thought on it was maybe there's a way to to do it and then if if we happen to run any crazy overruns the rest of the year and we have to use it then we end up having to use it but at least this way we're kind of hopefully doubling down but the flip side of that could be is that betweenin this could cost more next year and then we can't do it so I I mean I think it's a there's a always a risk of that decision but that was my initial thought we have a ballpark idea of well there's two questions I have um it does seem like um we run out of room and people just park on on the grass and some of that's because there's no lines but were we looking at expanding it at all that part there I we haven't looked at expanding it at all um okay I think what the idea is just to shape and pave what's there and and like David said put some lines down to make it more efficient what's an I didn't see an estimate in here maybe yeah we don't have an I don't know maybe Jason can run a number quick of from square feet but I yeah we haven't looked at it I don't we've done no preliminary work at all I just like said looked at a general number it costs us 100 thou $200,000 to do Thicket Hills in 1502 again we're Paving new pavement but again we're not putting down more gravel or anything it's fair it can't be too much that's why again I threw out a number of I don't know I I think Matt's idea is a good one actually where we just Bank what's left of it and then when when sou Diamond just seems like we should be able to get a better price I would hope so doing that much sure well right now asphalt is cheap just because of what we're doing in tickle thck Hills too I mean compared to what we thought it was going to be I brought this up to Marty I don't know a couple weeks ago and it to me it was either Central Park or Stevens Park Stevens park though I I'd like to get as much done there as we can yeah we don't even know where the parking lot we don't know where the lot yeah and I don't yeah I think some of us well at least me I don't like where where the parking lot's going to be but um oh does it make sense to bank it or do you think payment right now is I know that's a crystal ball crystal ball thing but pull it out and where's where's the Dow going to be next year this kind like I think that um there' be a lot of sense in in Paving it now I think winter time for you know those people picking up kids over there is always a difficult time for them um so if I had my choice I would PVE it this sh so I think it's worth getting a bid in and just looking at it that's I was going to say Jason we're going to have to pay engineering to develop this and pay the engineering cost to figure out what's going to so I get that but assuming we do that this year it would it's not going to change if we move it a year out like if we get the number and we decide to wait till next year it's not engine no we would just pay it now for the yeah so I would say we update the year on the then why not why not start the process now and then we get the number and we know and we can make a decision then I I think we should also look at I think we'll get better utilization if it's paved but if there's a way to expand that cuz even on like it's the sporting events are huge but like track and field day at the school trying to find parking that's a heck of a thing to do and like it's and so I would say that's probably if we can get more space too would be helpful I know it's going to greatly increase the cost go ahead uh the school district if it's pave the school district might um improve their portion of it didn't you ask them they might move they will not improve our correct portion of anything because they don't do any improvements off of city of school district property what's their portion their portion is any anything up from the basketball courts down there or the right here pavement you got it they would improve that so for kid and drop off pick up so they would improve their portion if our portion like back here chunk their CU they they do pick up and drop off back here oh you mean over to the B okay yeah I follow I was thinking the basketball cour the US expanded quite a bit for it to hit that yeah cuz I I feel like if we have more space back there that'd be helpful in not just for I mean for pickup would be helpful too but when there's an event there it's hard to get parking okay so is that good enough yeah so generally it sounds like the general direction of council is let's look at it go through engineering stuff get some maybe some bids figure out if we can do it this year if not maybe we can look at next year maybe we can add some additional parking whatever else may be but it sounds like in general just use some engineering yeah okay all right this one better be fast item I who's taking item I good evening mayor nerv council um I have Amy Schmid here City attorney who's able to discuss I know that she sent some stuff out in the um packet related to ined Eda enabling resolution movement forward what we're looking for tonight is just generally what the C does the council want to do um if we want to move forward with whatever we need to do we need to make an ordinance Amendment and we need to have a public hearing so um there'll be future things coming up but again this is General discussion and how we want to move forward with the Eda from a council perspective so Amy and I will stand for questions I had a number of points on at least what I read through um So currently section 2.1 has five members and it's seven members um mayor if I could um that was actually one of the questions that I had that I wanted to run through with the council um because the bylaws say seven and uh say five and two council members and I just wanted to clarify for my own understanding and make those kind of Corrections yeah um one of the things that um that I that I can kind of tee up is that you know this is my attempt to kind of make the resolution and and just to clarify also one of the things that Zach just said it wouldn't be an ordinance it would be just a resolution um but the statute requires of public hearing kind of the same as that is an as an as if it were an ordinance so it's just kind of semantics but I just want to make clear that it would just be a resolution that you would adopt so um so the circle back to that 2.1 so it is seven members that it's there one because the bylaw is safe five and so we five they say 527 by 27 yep okay so that's the last change we made was to make that change correct um yeah so the statute says you have five or you have seven yep it doesn't really specify a range right that's that's why the current bylaws say 527 okay so they need to be that's would that would be a change I would make to the bylaws yeah so the bylaw I'm assuming we would update the bws to yeah with the resolution whatever would you'd pass with the resolution we would amend the bws to match yeah so sorry that's part of the cleanup process so we can stick to the resolution and the bylaws just have to follow correct you got it right okay so that was one of the questions that I had and then what was what take me to your next question uh 2.2a that that you had the bracket on where did that 12year thing come from that was that's something that is kind of common in other cities ordinances and I bracketed it because that's just something that I threw in there to if you all wanted to consider that you can include it you don't have to if you don't want to um but that's just something that's kind of common seem to me that if we 12 years on somebody and we don't want them in anymore we just wouldn't vote them in um and I don't think anybody's anywhere near the 12 right now but I it just it's new and it struck me as an odd um an odd paragraph in there I I just s strike it but it's up to you guys I guess I don't know does anybody else care about the 12 thing can we step back is it do we want five or do we want seven seven I'm good to have seven something that was done yeah last three years so I'm I wasn't here when it was moved from 5 to 7 it happened right before I kind of joined my question is this is when we moved from 5 to 7 we went and this may drive a larger conversation of the Eda has a large amount of authority when there were five people two of which were City Council Members 40% of the voting based on the Eda was elected officials yep by adding two more we duded that down to 27 meaning that the Public's um we knew that vote okay that was taken into account when we did that we we went from 40% down to whatever two7 is so the 26% so we we almost half the amount of of really voted public um pieces that go into that which brings me to a larger question of if we're looking at doing this I think we should probably talk about the Eda as a whole I have no problem with the Eda um we often compare ourselves c as like Champlain and others they have an Eda but it's the city council um there's other cities that have an economic development Commission which to me seems honestly more fitting um all the other pieces we have our commissions where they make advisory statements to the council but the council is actually the Eda they're the ones that make the final decision so we listen to the weight of the Planning Commission and the Parks Commission um and then we make the decision versus giving a lot of authority to the Eda people who aren't um voted in they're appointed so this this was my concern here is that we're the underlying reason for some of this stuff is is to make changes and for to me you know there was a reason this city went with an external body for that and and and I'm fine with with with the external body um I just to to me my goal would be to clean up what we need to clean up and if we could have changed it to just be council members years ago but we didn't well I think it's worth discussing I guess is what what it comes down to maybe maybe you disagree I wasn't here with any that was decided upon I talked exactly about the timeline of how we got here and how some of the powers got adjusted to where they are seemed very fitting to other things that were happening at the time in the city which is interesting to me um but I I look at just my last year and a half here and there have been times where the Eda was given power to make decisions that could have put us in some pretty big lawsuits um if if things didn't go the way they did go thankfully they did um but I just I don't know I think if you talk to the average person they don't realize that the Eda has the power that they have have and that they're not elected officials they're appointed we knew all this I mean this is this is why that there are cities that have external bodies I know but we often compare ourselves to our neighboring and and we aren't I mean so we're outside that are we here to clean this up or to redesign it I mean if we're going to clean it up we might as well do it the way we want at the end why clean it up and then change it again that seems like like paving road and repaving again next year that doesn't seem like the right thing to if we're going to do it I think we should talk about what do we want and see the Ed as a function I mean we have an Eda that refuses to help home businesses they don't talk about home businesses they don't do anything about it but one of the Eda members isn't at home business like there's some some things there we also need to kind of hammer out of like they've they' brought it upon themselves to give themselves the authority to not help all businesses if you're talking about the way they behave we can certainly you know look at that um and if we want them to focus on on One Thing versus the other but I mean it's to me it's it's similar to the parks for for years we just had the parks determine the color of the swing set and at some point uh I and others decided they needed more more uh autonomy um I don't want to tell the Planning Commission here's my rules and here's what you need to do I rely on their expertise to to give me an answer so if we want to drive the way they make decisions then yeah we might as well do it but I I'm not there I I would like to see them more as in an advisory role like the rest of our commissions are and then we make the final decision as the elected officials in the city but I do think there are other things like I said we have home businesses that in my opinion they'd want to work with because eventually hopefully those home businesses grow enough to the point that they're going to want commercial space and then they're going to be partnered with them to help them with that so there are some things that you know I I I watch all the meetings I don't attend them but I watch every single one um that I've heard and I think there are opportunities that if if they're going to self-regulate away from what we as a council where the voted officials in the city think should be happening I'd love it if they just did on their own and we didn't have to to like babysit that but if they're not going to do it then maybe we have to so I think the the first piece is I would rather see them as an advisory commission and move the Eda Authority back to the city council as the final decision just like we do the rest of our advisory bodies that we have I think that they offer Great Value they have a good expertise but to me that's the real fit that I think the that we should be having this play out as and again other cities do this that are much larger than us have it set up this way Woodburry does this for example um and there are a few cities most cities it's the council yeah yep that's true so I said my piece you've said your piece we haven't heard from the other three I guess so I'm not sure I'm there on on blowing it up and starting it over with it being the with the council I think that may have been a lot simpler at at some point but I'm not sure that well one of the things I think we we get or or potentially have with a separate uh body is getting that business expertise onto that onto the authority um you know I I look at the five of us Scott's an independent businessman I think he's the only one sitting here I don't have that expertise I worked for a business but I I didn't own one I didn't have the those operational considerations that that the folks that are on the Eda the community members um or should be um and you know and I think the the um composition of the current membership is something that we could talk about but I think that's a separate issue from how it's you know how it's structured uh I have some concerns too about you know committees or commissions or authorities that you know can any way be um compared to the Met Council who we all love right because they're they're appointed and they have a lot of power and uh and whenever the Met Council comes up in this room um you know I don't know what gets muttered under the mic but you know it's it's usually not not great and so I fear that you know having a separate body that that can make cities that impact all or decisions that impact all of us um with no accountability to the voters that said what has been confusing through my year and a half I guess on the Eda um has been you know kind of the history and what is the authority and what isn't and we found the further we dug into that the stranger it got I guess in how we got to where we are and what I read in this in this draft document is it's section8 of the the state statute is the limit of the limit of power and I think it's five or six in this document but in in many of the places where funds would be ex uh expended the final Authority is the council we we still make that final determination and that makes me um comfortable with with having it being a separate body okay but it would for that to be true then we would need to include some of those things that are under the limitation of powers you guys have a I don't know I I hear what Matt say and I I agree with David fad I perused the state statute just kind of under the limitations of powers and it does seem like it gives the the that authority to the council at the end of the day um but um I just I guess just for my Optics it's just I haven't seen a whole lot of movement from that group as far as just like um econom economic Redevelopment of of whatever I just it just you know we got flower planters and and a few other odds and ends but like no significant projects I know they pursued the land but I didn't know what what what was behind all that so um I I I know literally nothing about what an Eda or what this Eda function is I guess i' just like to know more but um so when I go into this draft I just I see that we have the ultimate say they can suggest stuff to us but I guess as far as like the functions of what the Eda is that's a deeper discussion I think is worth having but I don't see anything wrong as with this draft I mean again it's a lot of State Statute language like you can get lost pretty easily so that's that's just my two cents Scott uh as David would say this I I didn't count how many times it says but dton city council has they're ref they're referenced over and over that the city council is going to have the final say on on on any financial matters um part of the problem that I see is there's been a roadblock for Eda ever since it's has been there yep and with a stop sign in front of you you just can't go so it's either and I am personally I'm I'm I think that the past Behavior needs to be cleaned up and I think that's getting much better I think that part is kind of taken care of um and that can be directed too uh I'm I'm all all about cleaning it up and giving them a shot and letting them do what they're supposed to do in in taking the roadblocks out of the way and just see where it goes just for my curiosity what do you feels a roadblock that's been in their way for the last years well this uh this triangle piece has been bounced around for a couple of years now and it's it's still sitting there the uh the lero thing took or the uh I should say the Levy Street thing that took two years mostly because previous staff didn't want Eda to have it I mean that roadblock there was a stop sign there constantly uh now the staff doesn't have that roadblock there it it's far less than what it ever was um I I think there I think the commission should be given a chance and and and see what happens how long's a chance yet how long have a chance yeah oh till we decide I think it can be brought up again I mean I don't see the reason to if that we if we go through this thing and then hopefully all this legal stuff is cleaned up and we can operate under this deal I still have about six bullets goad that's that's a big and get going mean I don't see any reason to change it for till 26 27 28 is the big thing nowadays 2028 the city is going to change drastically in 28 let's wait till then a big part of the problem has been that that what the eda's authority has been and what they should be doing has been really unclear and you look at one document it says one thing and you look at another place it says something else and I that certainly caused confusion for me in in my time um representing us on that commission uh is what you know what are we allowed to do and I think that that's if we do our work here we make that that clear for so everybody knows what the rules are and who's doing what um that has not been the case up until now it still isn't until we finalize this but I think that would help and I think that there has to be some time then for for these things to be implemented and understood um so that the Eda can actually move ahead on on some projects um you know we're all standing here waiting for that to happen and and uh nobody hopes so more than me but I think that this has got this part part of it has got to got to get cleaned up so everybody knows who's doing what and there's there's more to talk about then where what we've gotten to so far there's things I don't understand either which is usually the case but I'll ask those questions when we get to them all right um if I if I could ask one more question about the composition of the members yeah [Music] um so the statute says if you have seven members then it's five members and two council members it's so it just be a matter of me changing the numbers here but one of the things that um I I guess I can't really say I added it because it wasn't really it wasn't really in here but I just want to make sure of you know the way that this is structured right now in 2.1a um changing the three to five it would be three commission five Commissioners shall be members of the Dayton business Community or residents of the city of Dayton with business Andor Economic Development experience that or is not specifically called out anywhere that you do now I just wanted to double check if that's something that you wanted to keep in there I if we're going to keep the EA the way it is I think it makes sense to have it so that it's either business owners SE Suite individuals that live in our city cuz I've I said this before I think if the I always pick on Best Buy I'm pretty sure doesn't live here if the CEO of Best Buy lives here we probably want his input to what draws businesses places especially retail locations because they have that experience or just business owners if if you own a business but your business isn't in Dayton I would think you'd want that expertise on the Eda as well so you can understand well why did you choose to put your business in Rogers versus Dayton and what would it you know what could we change to make it more attractive to be here so I think you know so the or is you're fine with the or I'm fine with them there being yeah that opens up we can always not Point somebody I would say preferred in my view because you know you think about some of the larger businesses that we have in town which is you know I guess not a big number but um recent past King Solutions you know was a you know is an important business in this community and we didn't have the CEO on on the Eda now maybe that would have been better but you know what's our odds of getting that person but we did have a very competent person in in that role remember and so I think we need that or there to allow what we've already okay yeah okay and then just another clarification um so the the terms are six years per the statute and that's just something that I that that I'm that I call out you know to specify that that's that that's the term that they're appointed to and I would yeah just continue with but I we we we went through this about 3 years ago cuz the somehow I don't know how but the terms got messed up the last track or something yeah somehow and so at that point we just set the terms of the the current members and so it seems like we just continue on with that I'd be fun with that yeah I mean I think you're you would take an action separately to officially and that's actually part of the the the resolution um you can either do it in this one to reappoint the current members to finish out the terms that they've previously been appointed to we can address that you know another um another in either a separate action or in this one too um all right I just that and so I so I don't know what was everybody feel about the 12E thing I I I don't a long time to be in any commission to begin with it might be but I mean to me if somebody gets to the 12th year and we don't want him in we just don't vote him in true I'm not understanding what that what the upside to that limit is other than other than limiting the term is that's that's yeah I I don't I mean I don't mind the term limit I don't think it hurts anything and I think if anything in helpman sure we're con getting fresh views on the well then we can just not vote see that's what I'm not getting if you don't want somebody on there we you just vote not vote for them that's what I'm confused about you yeah you just don't reappoint right you just don't reappoint well I mean that anticipates that there would be you know unanimity or majority on the council on a given person at that 12year Mark this just gives you know everybody in the same sure even footing of you get two terms no more than 12 years um but it's also not required you can it's just it's something that you can just choose whether you want to include it I guess i' I guess I'd prefer to strike it to not back back to uh the point of if you had Best Buy a CEO I mean i' I'd leave him on there as long as you have yeah I'm trying to think in the same you know wheelhouse I think you are is like you know what other Industries would stick out 12 plus years you know that would grow in Dayton trust me we'll take the CEO of any company before we take the CEO I'm kind of in agreement with striking it because you know maybe there is something that takes a 20-year project and maybe somebody does have that one up I don't well we do as Dennis said we we do have that ability not to reappoint right you know I and we don't have term limits on any of our other commissions maybe should but we have a hard enough time hard enough we have six years is a long term which is fun I'll give you all an update that you will have an email coming in your way oh cool where you'll have an option oh really okay so and then my next question would be in the next paragraph B um related to a the a city council member not being able to you know when they leave office not be the last sentence there upon leaving office for any reason whether unelected resigned whatever that a former city council member wouldn't be appoint wouldn't be able to serve as an Eda commissioner for two years I'm sure staff called you because I'm coming up pretty soon here you know what the record no they did not no that might make sense for like a plan when you leave you're gone like a Planning Commission I could maybe see that but I I don't know the because there's some sort of maybe a a backwards conflict of interest is that what this is dealing with no it's just it's just a it's just a something that is commonly in one in an ordinance or in a res resolution like this one I just put it in here as an option for you all to consider is I mean it's I didn't I think the intent of the two city council spous is that there is is in my mind that there isn't elected voice on me so you'd always want to keep two of them there that makes sense but you can't now in my in a council member spot if he's if you're if you're not on Council then you're not on Eda correct well unless so it really doesn't need to be there unless you get appoint un that's what this deals with this would deal with it You' have to have got where to be done with Council and then you got appointed the Eda you wouldn't be able to do that for two years basic you couldn't be appointed you couldn't get appointed for two years and and again it getes back to if if the council at that time doesn't want to appoint him they just won't appoint him so that that's why I'm I'm not sure yeah I mean it's just there for an option for you all to consider I can it if it's not if it's not something you want to do sounds like strike it I think strike it to be there plus my guess is when it ever happens we won't remember that it's in there so well you'll be here we'll let them know what going on all right um Mr just a question because I miss was it a four-year term or six-year term year term so one question that I do have um in section 2.5 about compensation and reimbursement um one of the The Voice votes that a past Council took to make some of the changes that we're trying to clean up here um set the compensation at $25 per meeting I think I don't know that for a fact one option to consider and this is why I phrase it the way the last sentence is there about the rate of compensation or reimbursement um is established by a written resolution you know so it' be separate from this enabling resolution you know just like you adopt your fee schedule each year you would adopt whatever it is kind of you know my it I don't say it specifically here but you know the thought being that you know you would um do that in kind of the same manner that you raised your salaries here on the council that you know you vote on it but it doesn't take effect until after the next election kind of kind of timing wise so it's not like the two council members who serve on the Eda are going to jack up their their go maybe the next January or something that's a long way to look for change I guess six years yeah I mean so it's no it would be until after the next election not oh so it's like if you were to make a change it just okay October to you know whatever the the per meeting payment would be yeah um it wouldn't take effect until after the November election you know something like that I don't know that we do we do that with the other commissions I don't think we do well I think this is getting confused because that $25 only applies to the council members no it applies to all commissions so it's written specifically in the ordinance for each commission it specifically lays out how much do they get paid per meeting right in each each ordinance it says there I don't remember number or letter H or something so the rate will be $25 per me I understand why you know if the is voting themselves AR raise it doesn't kick in until the next election that makes sense but the commissions I'm not sure I see the tie I think it's because we serve on the commissions and so we could then serve we could put a raisin for ourselves if we were on said commission I think that's what what Amy's getting after I don't know if we need it commiss well correct in this case the Eda but we we all it be the same thing with Parks right like oh we should pay Parks $1,000 a meeting because I happen to be on Parks you know like then if it happens before I get elected again that would be the the and there's no there's no there's no requirement that that the a rate change take effect that way that's just a parallel that you could choose to to use I just kick it in that the next year you know it could be effective January 1 I don't care yeah I I think we determine that as as needed it's not like it's changed for you know Chang changed for a long time yeah so I I guess I haven't been paying attention to pay stubs but we we get paid for Liaisons yes no yes okay for the meetings that you attend so if you miss one you obviously don't get I mean it's probably out a lot I mean $25 for 6 months is $150 so yeah I wouldn't have really making it no I get it that's why we're doing it for I know it's not a bigger boat it's not a bigger boat that's why Scott fights to be on every commission yeah all right um so I mean just so structurally having the rate of compensation established by separate resolution is an acceptable an acceptable way to go or do you want to set it in this resolution I think it should be separate separate okay that's I think so okay all right and I'm just going to run down and if you want to you know run down my my points and if you want to jump in wherever you want to just tell me where to stop you're done before 10:30 um so what okay so I'll go to uh number 3.2 um for some reason and currently the bylaws say that the um there is no official seal for the Eda but the statute says that the Eda shall have a separate seal so here one way to handle that is just to say that the official seal of the Eda is the Seal of Dayton and you know that's where you know when you have a resolution and you emboss it and all that kind of business you know so it's not a huge deal but it's just kind of I put that in there to you know conform to the statute requirements um that work staff yeah great perfect um let's see less money on embossers there we go and designing one and all that um so one question I'll jump to section 5.1 under the statutory Powers um you have anything between there may or you I I do but maybe you want me to come back whatever you want to do I don't let's go in order if we can go in order all right 3.6 3.6 the last mhm says the bond must be for twice the amount of money likely to be on hand at any time yeah that's but it's limited to 300,000 well we already know that so maybe this is is this verbiage um because money on hand that the Eda has it's the whole 600 right now right 670 yeah 670 twice that's a lot more than 300 that's why I was it it seems inconsistent that's straight out of the statute well once again okay clarify question what is a treasurer's Bond if we have one I've never I've never heard of it personally that it was just assuming your treasur doesn't have one posted at the moment oh that'd be no so do we just strike all 3.6 not have treasure bonds well if it's the statute I you don't have to have it in the resolution because it is it is a requirement of the statute regardless of whether it's in your resolution or not but um I mean that is it's exactly straight out of the statute 46996 subdivision 6 all right then maybe we have to have it but I still don't understand what it's for yeah so that they don't em embezzle the money it's a kind of some runs off with all the money we have money somewhere else it's listed as a well the simple the simple way to solve that is any funds that are distributed well they still have two signers yeah but that's not that's not it does kind of doesn't matter this statute the statute stat says no fine that's that Amy fix it you the treasure no I Hing you are no but uh who's the who's the treasure that is that person's noted on the Ed correct likeed an Ed is a treasure they have one and I just they don't handle any money so yeah see but that's why I'm confused yeah hey I don't know what's the solution the solution is either get rid of it or fix it the terminology I don't think you can get rid of it because it's a if you can't get rid of it because it's the in the statute the obligation doesn't go away doesn't necessarily have to be included in your resolution but the obligation to comply with the statute doesn't change one way or the other okay well I think it might as well be in there so we know about it yeah that makes sense however that yeah mayor you have somebody online who has their hand up would you like to have them talk or do you want to wait till after it's kind of a double Ed swort if they have something specific to this um should we get through our points first and then do it maybe yeah maybe we should do that yeah yeah um is it a member of the Eda I don't know couldn't I um the hand is now Down's down now um however if someone through the zoom link is wanting to speak on a topic um you are required to state your name and address for the record if you wanted to speak on this item you can re ra your hand okay so let's uh get through so anyways that sentence is inconsistent but if it's in State Statute we're stuck with it imagine that state statute okay 3.9 um it says the secretary has to uh present the finan basically financial statement but it doesn't say how often I'm guessing it's in coordination with the audit again this is just straight out of the state statute okay I I seems like we can assume that it doesn't even give a term it doesn't even say once a year or once a quarter it doesn't frequency actually designated Eda members mhm yes they are y yeah they voted yeah so all right so that's look at that State Statute we don't we don't we don't do that one yet um okay so now I'm up to 5.5 and where were you at 51 okay do you have something oh yeah did I was I was at 51 anybody else has something um no I'm okay I'm up to 5.5 yeah 5.5 I have a question 51 go ahead I want to stop at 51 if we could so um this I think is what I understand that the council has done in the past is that you know all the powers of of an Eda and the powers and duties of a Housing and Redevelopment Authority there's also one other section in the Eda statute that allows um the Eda to exercise additional Powers um as a basically as a city um within certain within certain um parameters so I just I didn't know if you wanted to have all of those um included or if it was just the Eda and the HRA Powers what were the other powers there are other powers let me find my statute sorry um wasn't that an Eda can exercise under um I have too many papers sorry do they have to form like a district of some sort it would be something like that yeah District it would be a an H or Eda District well the Ed that's the that's something we should talk about is the Eda districts but um here I'm sorry WR CL so this they they can exercise the powers of City development districts starting at the as it's outlined in um chapter 469 point subdivision 46924 um and so I I don't think that this is something that that the that um the city has done in the past but I just it is a statutory power that you can grant to this to the Eda I just want to make sure whether you did or didn't want to do that if we haven't I'd say no no okay I agree and if they at some point it makes sense then maybe we can add it have that discussion then yeah we have that discussion then okay um and that's and there's sort of a um and then there's another question that I have in the Eda Powers um the um actually we already answered that question sorry so um the question of about this the um the city development districts um was also applicable in um section 6 6.1 J um later in this document so um okay we'll just skip that one so that would take us to 5.5 if there's I just add a something there uh clarification a here M 5.5 says the date in Ed May and then it says uh present to the council for approval M well how is how how is it a May if we have to approve it it just means that if they do choose to do it y then it would have to have Council approval before they could move forward I don't we make it just a will I mean I I still struggle the fact that like Comm whether not just the EA this is all the commissions getting them in once a year just to tell us what your plans are this year what you're going to do last year even though we asked for it I know Zach asked all of the chairs for all the commissions multiple times VI email that come in and none of them responded so did we have a Planning Commission coming did not year not this year but we asked this year already so like it should be part of their bylaws that they're here in front of us once a year presenting I for all of them not just I'm not just picking all of them should be doing that I would say twice a year because they should be coming at the beginning of the year and saying here's what we did last year that was successful and here's what we're plan doing this year and then six months in right before budget season they should say here's what we need to budget for next year here's what we did this year already here's what our plans are for the rest of this year so I would change that to they will show up by annually so twice a year that'd be my right semi sorry semiannually yeah by an every other year that always throws me I'm sorry semiannually yes that I would say that should be in all of the commissions and the EA in my opinion in all their bylaws yes so what do we want to do with this one so you want this to say that the Dayton Eda shall annually develop a plan and present it before and come before the council for to present it twice per year be happy with the ones for now I had at least one I think there's a strategic should be Ann could be annual but then there should be another element of adding an update I something something like that to your point I think we should see them more often you know this 5.5 seems to deal with a strategic plan that I think is done annually so so presenting it annually I think should be a requirement but I think there's other places in here okay related to to budget and stuff where that second visit if you will could come into play but as far as a strategic plan it seems like a tactical plan yeah sure well that would be the beginning of the year one right CU last year's were plan to this year and then the second one they come in later not section well or you know or now while the budgets are being developed what's the plan sure either are yeah so I think at least a shell change the a shell did you have something else for no that's that was it okay question would the council also do the same thing con do what of having like an annual plan that they would present to the commissions and then ask how can the commissions help the council well that's what happens when you have those annual meetings then right that's the collaborating point right right yeah yeah so I mean we have a strategic plan that we typically do every year yeah we didn't do one this year cuz we adopted one last year that involved both last year and this year to many dots that was a darts next year darts oh really you want darts pain so the answer is we already do it we just didn't do it this year but we did it last year and that just that just didn't happen to be presented to commissions it was just I think it's you already kind of know where you're going but um so I have one at 61h but you you had one at 61 J I think 61j we resolved of because of the conversation earlier so 61h um we do 6 that when you can transfer money out yeah that struck me is very odd um and seemed like there would be statutory problems with that since they're a different Levy Authority that's straight out of the statute shocking I may have rewarded I don't necessarily have a problem with it less grammatically nightmareish what's weird is it also says to pay for bonds except everybody knows all that money is fungible right I mean you we just pull it out of this pot to move it to this pot it just struck me as odd that the levy a separate Levy body we can move money from ultimately they're not a separate lovering body they request that that the ADT yeah let me rephrase that a separate Levy Authority line item almost because right they but they they can only an Eda the Eda can only request that the council adopt or but even if yeah I see what you're saying though either way two and It just strikes me as odd that we can pull money from one and put it in another one but you're saying that's straight out of the straight out of the statue sweet all right six 6.9 J are you for clarification what we've done in the past is not funded before like we've they've had when we levied we we said hey you don't need one 300,000 or whatever they they can typically Levy yeah there's a limit to but we've never pulled money from yeah exactly okay correct we we never transferred money out but we just did not Levy for we not for so 69j what would be an example of a development District in Dayton today I don't know that we have any the Eda should to exercise Powers some of the powers they need to establish it they would you know would take an action where they would you know draw lines and describe the boundaries of be like a tiff District of sorts along those lines yeah and it be a similar way and then it's within those boundaries that they that they would exercise and certain powers so this so this is since this is a new thing um you're saying that the council would have to approve that District let me look and try to find where I was at here wait a minute there's no 69j that's I was looking for 69j and I was like I know 61 that's the specific Powers contained in statute yeah 61j one nine whatever um yeah expresses approval of the D city council by written resolution that those sections that 46924 to 0.134 that's that City this this acting as a city district the one you were talking that's the one that's going to come out where they draw the okay yeaha would have districts of its own to act in okay yeah I can flip a coin on that one too I I know I mean obviously we haven't done anything like this I'm just trying to think of a scenario where we would well then they might for some reason but it seems like they could just come convince us so I don't know and so you had put Jay in I would take Jay out based on what what you told me um earlier in related to um but this section 5.1 this would explicitly not allow that power to them correct so you could leave it in there even though it's not part of their Authority in case it ever changes yeah this this section lists the limits on their power yeah so so I guess I misunderstood you were getting at you were I thought you were saying the Eda could take that power and this preamps that they would only take that power if you give it to them we have to approve it oh they would have to identif this is redundant well it is okay um so I mean it could go either way you know if it's not listed in one of their enumerated powers then they can't exercise it so you can either specifically say they can't do that in this limitation section or you can just let the the fact that it's not listed as an affirmative Grant of power to it seems like yeah it's redundant to me I just s rip it out then if yeah if it just says what is already fact I'm okay with okay so and and kind of it back um at 6.1d about developing annual goals and plans for development and Redevelopment in the city that's different than the Strategic plan that may um go council member trust to what you're looking kind of hoping for um that way they can and you could add the obligation for them to come in and and present you know here as well um so it's just really kind of depends on how you want to do that yeah that think they should and it says must on this one yeah so there's a difference between the annual goals and plans and a strategic plan which theoretically would be in more long range yeah so to me this long range user plan would be the January thing and this would be the middle of the Year thing that makes sense if I read them the way I think I read them yeah yeah any substantial additions or variations from that plan okay um the only other question I had was for eight Section 8 which is just a kind of a that's the cleanup right that's um so here's my question it says um determines that the actions taken by the Eda since 2014 have complied with the limitations imposed by the council blah blah blah here's my question um how do we comply with this and how do we know it to be true is this just some sort of a what is this this is the ratification of everything that that has happened um since 2014 when the changes were made only by by Voice vote and not by written resolution The Authority in 46992 is is given to the council to specific spefically affirmatively say yep everything they've done complies with what power we have given them in the past okay this is this is this is the the key to clean up pretty safe um you know to to the the levy that they've asked you to Levy the you know the any expenditure of funds any of the actions that they've taken this is your way of saying yeah they did what we empowered them to do so this is just covering that this is an exclusionary clause this is this is the repair this is the ratification of what has happened in this kind of limbo created by not having a written resolution yeah they're basically giving authority to do everything they did since 2014 because they technically didn't have the authority because it wasn't in written action corre what's the worst thing that could have happened taxpayer lawsuits for an illegal Levy um but I levies we did and then we were we went through the levies yeah I mean so I mean it's it's where you know in proper expenditures I mean I yeah I mean there's any number of things that that's really what I was getting what he's like what what what are we doing here so okay it doesn't seem like there's so I think there's a whole lot of risk but it's just it's it's better it's just a clean CLE it's clean it it starts the wipes the Slate as so to speak and you know allows you to move forward okay and remove stop clearly remove some stop SS we'll see okay I I'm done I don't have any more questions anybody else have any questions no no I don't have anymore and I do see the logic for having that sort of blanket over the pth M yeah be done with it you know because The Voice vote of the of the council you know expressed the intention of what the council wanted to allow the Eva to do it's just that technicality of not doing it by written resolution and so this just puts in the WR res written resolution that they were that that the powers that they have exercised to date has been at the direction of the of the council and the intention of what the council wanted to grant them the power to to to do okay okay do we want a motion on this or is it going to get cleaned up first yeah we got to we have to get it cleaned up first we have to have a we have to have a public hearing so you will likely see this on August 12th okay based on timings and whatever else and he's like okay all right so we good yep on item J public purpose expenditure policy one minute mayor and members of council again U Amy Schmidt drafted a public purpose expenditure policy update for um the city um here to answer any questions along with Amy for that uh the last time it was updated like I noted in the staff report is 2007 since it's been 17 years we probably should at least revisit it and make sure we're all on the same page we St for any questions it's as squishy as I remember from before so yeah so the blanket one was sent out in 2007 is and that was what was adopted by the city basically the blanket one from LMC and hasn't been touched since so I have nothing anybody else candid I had a bunch of questions I just called Amy earlier and asked them all good now but I'm struggling a little bit I mean I'm I think we want to update the policy I don't have any concerned about that um some of them I I just confused me on how we would follow and I'm reading under the policy section you know city council City administrator any City staff who have authority to approve expenditures should consider factors like the following the time of day of proposed event or activity is scheduled to be held um and then the other one that I'm scratching my head on is where whether the proposed event or activity is intended to include non- City residents officials or employees I what's our what's our standard for this um do we do we not approve things that are after 7:00 at night or I mean there's no guidance on how we would use this criteria to what's what's a good answer and what's a bad answer you know do we do we not want residents or officials or employees and so that's where I get lost on it is how would we how would that be implemented how would we use this policy to say we're we're denying your request because of the time of day do we then have to establish what time of day we want to approve these kind of events and that's that's where I'm confused well I think even harder to that like if someone we want to put a firework show on at noon that wouldn't be very good right you wouldn't want to do that cuz it be the middle of the day right you wouldn't really get the full benefit of it but at the same time you probably don't want to have a a a child's you know top event where we have a little bit like what we had the park a while a while ago you won't have that at midnight right so like it may even depend by event I'm not saying we should put that in there but I think when I read it part of the reason I it was I was okay with that is cuz I think it it's event dependent almost at that point but maybe I'm I think it is I think it is I just don't know if this criteria helps helps you get to an answer this basically says everything is subjective that's really what and if you look at the state statute on this it's it's almost as squishy mayor members of the council if I could you know the these are just examples of factors that you could look at um you know if you're trying to determine whether there's a governmental purpose to it whether it and you just if it's you know if it's a a government meeting at 7:00 at or 6:30 on a Tuesday night then it the time of day doesn't really come into play but if it's a public purpose expenditure for um like you know a staff event if it's not something open to the public and but it's not during regular work hours you know is that a social thing or is that a or is that a is that a legitimate work function that serves the government purpose that's the kind of thing that that it is subjective within your discretion um um but that's that's I think that's kind of what this you know is intended to to way into the into the thought process it's not a a you don't have to tick every box to to you know to of this specific list and there could be other factors that aren't here that could weigh into your thought process on whether it fits you know what what the you know expenditure would be in the in you know to meet those three the three criteria that are you know that are out of the the case law that's been in place in Minnesota for a long time you know are the the three criteria at the top of the page you know does it benefit the community as a whole um does it serve directly a government function and you know does it you know make a a profit for someone else besides the city as its primary purpose you know those are the three things that you really have to look look at and these are just kind of you know different um factors that could come into your your thought process or if it's you know if it's if it's Zach making a decision about you know training for staff or something like that you know where it's you know does it really fit the the the role and function of of an employee you know who like you know does Amy need to go to training for you know to replace the copper wire in the in the lights you know it I mean I know Amy does everything I Amy everything but you know you see what I mean so you just kind of you're looking for that reasonable fit and these are just things that you can include in in in your analysis the one that should really light you up is the public purpose should be broadly construed to comport with the changing conditions of Modern Life whatever that means so I I I I don't know like I said I that's just the way that a court would look at it honestly that you know if if if the city were to be sued over you know an improper expenditure you know an allegation of an improper expenditure um that's the way the court would look at at the decision you know they would they would basically defer to the council's discretion and judgment in in reaching the decision on how to spend that public money and and really you know it's it's not just where where the city actively pays $1,000 to somebody for something it's it's it's there are different ways to actually expend public funds you know it's it's the waiver of fees where you would be you know foregoing income that would come to the city to cover costs of Staff time but it's also um you know allow having providing you know Police Service kind of above and beyond the norm of just you know police being able to respond to calls um where you or Public Works time for Heritage days or something like that where you're kind of giving an ink kind um donation and not making not requiring reimbursement for those costs um you know when it comes to things like having the police at you know at an at an event to help direct traffic or parking or things like that where it um um kind of serves a larger purpose of of you know kind of reducing chaos and having things kind of spill out onto the streets and having a police presence there you know kind of deters bad behavior that kind of thing you can I mean that's a justifiable public expenditure with ask you about that because I went to a concert on Sunday a lot of St Paul police officers helping direct traffic and they may be paid off well under a contract and I was wondering is that something like hey that contract with Excel Energy Center or those you know outfit that put that together did they incur a cost and they just slip that over to the PD and say like here's the cover for that kind of stuff is that a lot of in you know for larger events like that at least in my experience with other cities you know it's a contractual overtime situation okay you know like where you'll see a police officer in Target where they're there under a contract and being paid in hourly rate um I think the chief would know more about that than I but um you know where it's an event here in Dayton for you know fireworks at the park or something like that that is put on by an or you know or an event that's put on by a private entity that you know isn't there to make a profit um but you know it does help reduce chaos in the street and and and that sort of thing where there is a legitimate public um purpose that you know could be served by having the police there but not doing it under a contractual overtime kind of situation so the theater event cuz I don't think they charge for that I think it's a free event to go to that would be okay to wave the fees because it's we one could argue it's a benefit to the community as a whole to have a a play in the community it's free it doesn't benef there's no Financial benefit for a specific organization but it does help better manage the traffic on Fern Brook which is already a bad R is that fair I think that's fair I mean I think that um it the you think it's squishy but it's and it is this the way that this can be Anze and it really is kind of on a Case by case basis you know there's not a black and white hard and fast rule that you have that you can say you know and it goes back to council member Vash you were the concerns you have about the the factors that are listed there that could go into your consideration of of whether to whether it meets the the actual three-part legal test of of what's a public purpose expenditure I don't know if that helps but that's sort of some of the rationale behind what's what's in here and it's consistent with you know the case law that's that's applicable yeah well I think that that clarifies it a bit you know it's still a little bit but I mean well and and I understand the format you know is driven a lot by what's law and that's different than maybe in other businesses I'm used to seeing policies where the policy statement is real brief yeah right in the healthcare World you'd say first Do no harm okay there's there's our policy right here injury and then the 27 pages that follow that is the procedure right how do we how do we accomplish that right and this is this is kind of all Blended together I guess a little me if if if you want a different format I mean I'm happy to to to rework to to you know kind of fit what you're looking for I mean this is just I my my answer to that is I don't know because I mean if we in a perfect world right all of our policies would follow the same format yeah and so you know what you're looking for when you go find one okay this is the piece I need what's the policy or what's the procedure right and I don't I don't know that we you know and there we could you know for the where we have examples um you know you know there we could add some some meat to that structure you know to that skeleton and and you know sort of Flesh it out a little bit more to make it to to give that more detail if you really wanted it um and and we could add if you wanted to have a procedure for you know how uh like a a nonprofit organization or a member of the public would come to the council to make a request you know does it go through staff you know you you we could put that in here if you wanted it um so I mean it's it's this isn't this isn't set in stone I think in the past we've up up to a certain level I think you know Teresa's budget well it's not Teresa's budget anymore but she kind of make some of those decisions but I I I I kind of put it at a level of other expenditures if it reaches a certain point then we then we Take That Power from staff but I I don't know I I don't have a problem with staff making those decisions up to some dollar amount but I guess we'll get into that in the next item so or at least some of it sir do you do you want to take you do you want me to take a swipe at you know amending this further I think it's fine just way I it's fine the way it and I like just to bear I like the examples at the end that's helpful I think for when we look at some major things that are okay things that aren't okay I think that's helpful just from a adding extra guidance to the sniff test pieces you were talking about yeah so I like it I'm good other than I think the word and I don't if it needs to be add might want to be added under after benefits the community as a whole because it's after the third one as well so I don't know maybe we don't need it maybe we do just makes it clear that all three have to be met not just two but okay that's my two sens we good all right on to item K do you want to vote to approve it all motion to approve it we got second um okay any more discussion okay all those in favor say I I all those opposed say no carries 5 to zero oh we can move on okay mayor and members of the council um we have operation zero that will be happening out at the Magnus veterans Foundation who um exactly of the piece we just discussed um looking to wave the fees for this um fundraiser so base on we just discussed this does not pass all all three CU this is an event to directly profit in individual company correct or nonprofit in this case it's a paid event you to pay to get into it right I don't know any details but all right so the yeah the operation Z from what we gathered is it's a nonprofit that focuses on raising awareness to prevent veteran suicide so I like the cause please yeah I don't know if it's a paid event I have no idea maybe you may know um I can get a for sure answer on that I believe there is an entry fee so that in and of itself makes it not a public public yeah well it would you would have to meet those three criteria that we just talked about and um the the third one about not you know having solely as its as its purpose you know a private um profit making um purpose it's you know in a situation like this where it's a nonprofit for another nonprofit I mean it's it's it's squishy um to use your word Mr Mayor you know it's [Music] um unbalanced it's you know you look at is it a fun is it a core governmental function and all these other parts and so it's up to you to decide um whether it does or doesn't so you don't think the fact that they charge a fee automatically says it's it's not a public event correct I don't think that just because there's a a ticket price especially if the if the if it's not I mean if it was a ticket to pay for you know for like a concert that was just some you know touring company of some you know oh sure of if it was a private entity um where it's a nonprofit it gets a little it is a little less it is a little less clear um but I think that um could you say like waving the fee for residents of Dayton you like kind of find the yeah or something like that you say driver license everybody's a resident right I don't I a fundraiser for for a a good cost charity and if I could ask the question um you know the fees that we're talking about are like licensing fees right I mean it's no no they're asking for they are asking for police services to be waved okay along with fireworks and a large assembly permit okay so the fees for the large assembly permit is a fee that's related to the licensing or the ability to have the large assembly fireworks is another probably simpler similar one but we would have staff out there related to the fireworks and then also police services are that's the biggest one so they're asking for all the police services to be waved which is $125 an hour for Contract Services so it's a fairly large LGE expenditure that's correct well that's good depends how you quantify large this is where some people it's not to some people lar just 300 bucks to other people larg just 10 it just depends on right but I mean so it's not just the it's not just a $50 permit fee no no this is going to be a couple Grand yeah we're talking thousands of dollars I would say what did you just say thousands of dollars I'm guessing in time labor and and wave I think that's what weal Maybe I'm Wrong maybe I'm misremembering when we talked about this before the time for the police then I think there was the fees I think the fireworks fee was not cheap either because that includes the fire chief's time go ahead sorry uh police services it all depends on how many officers are required to be at the event if it's one officer for eight hours you're probably looking at right around 1,000 bucks but the cheap police fire department will have to be there cuz the fireworks so you got his time plus the of the permit fee which I what I don't remember what the fireworks permit fee 200 200 for the that and then $100 the fireworks permit yeah so then you're you're talking probably staff time I'll say probably 500 total with everything 15 but it's a community event to the extent that the that the public can attend but not just walk up and and participate in correct that's where you're $20 entry Fe okay that's how $20 12 and under is free that's good to know how would this have been different than uh Riverfest be the same thing wouldn't it basically there's no entry fee there's no entry fee riverest there yeah there was yeah there was all these nonprofits I mean how however you I don't know I I if it's not a cut and dry answer I mean this is not a cut and dry City event for sure well my concern is is that if we go down this road we will kill off all the events no no I'm I'm not yeah and it doesn't the sniff will be resolved at this location say what the well for the large assembly permit they would be so the fir perm in the right time well no they still have to pay for the time yeah so Magnus has applied for an event center and so that would eliminate the large assembly need because they would be expected to have it but Poss fireworks minor cost correct yeah the the large assembly is the smaller cost fireworks is a little more not much more but police servic is the big one y and when I met with Magnus they had mentioned that they're moving away more and more away from these kind of events not because of the changes we've made but just because of the their fundraising it's not the most what they mention me the biggest tie it's a big time sync for the events it's better for them just to work directly with pit and get get the money that way and so he had said when I met with him that they're going to apply for the permit but they don't even know how much are are they going to use it they just want to have it in case do but they're not planning on doing like a summer series of concerts again because the return on on wasn't good wasn't good based upon their volunteers time and really drained the volunteers a lot yep so I'm just saying that for an event that the public was able to go to this will kill it so if we're weon kill buns right that's event public go because they don't charge entry Fe yeah no I'm not I'm talking about Magnus I'm talking about this event if we're talking about thousands of dollars I don't see them doing this event but well as far as if we're talking about charging them back the fees well that's what we're talking about yeah if we did i k is what you're saying yeah yeah yeah and I and I to me we the more events we can have in this city the better um and I get I mean if it was you know a lot more blunt um you know that this was a like a four profit event I think I'd be more you know then I'd have no problem with it it's just that um these these nonprofits that they I know um these fees just wipe them out so and to me it's I consider a legitimate function because it promotes some public events so I don't disagree benefits Community as a whole promotes a public event and it is well the next question is is it directly related to a function of government talk about that one the one that I got cut up on was the is it it is not primary to benefit a private interest and I like the cause just to be 100% clear I just we we just talked about this I just want to make sure that we're following the rules that are there and it's it's clearly it's great so I don't know you know I think one of the the parts of that that we have in the policy that's you know from the various courts that have looked at public P purpose expenditures you know it says that you know there have been cases where a court has looked at it and said you know activities that serve the public health safety General Welfare security prosperity and contentment of residents further public purpose you know so that's that's perhaps another way to look at those three criteria um you know it I think I think the most challenging one in this specific situation is the directly related to the functions of government um you could take the approach that you know it is a government function to you know if a if a large event is going to occur it's a government function to have police or fire there to you know maintain order and you know maintain the safety of of how the fireworks are are deployed you know so it's possible I think to you know to do the analysis and and perhaps still find that it does satisfy the public purpose test because you know in in you know broadly construing it there's the words there mayor that you called out you know it's just this is this is kind of the way that that nonprofits sometimes need the need the support you know I mean obviously it's it's your decision um so you're not worried about number three you were about number two I think two is the most challenging but I still think you know based like just what I just said I think I think it's I think it's possible to get there but it's but it's it's your decision to to make that you know to weigh these factors and how you want to analyze it in in this specific request I've got one question real quick do we keep the parking lot at Public Works open 247 I mean it's accessible right yeah so the fireworks piece anyone could go watch it from the the Public Works building it'll be high enough up if it fits the the benefit of all yeah yeah I think that and you know as it relates to the functions of government piece Public Safety is a function of government yeah providing Public Safety by monitoring the fireworks set up making sure that that's not unsafe they're not shooting in Mad houses or whatever right fight right you got a bunch of bikes leaving on to North Diamond Lake Road and so police presence there is a public safety to that benefits the community that think that that's um you know kept orderly so because if this if this event would go go forward of you know of whether the city waves the fees the you know the public would still have an interest in having the police and fire presence there to you know for those reasons that you just enumerated council member can I ask one question which is if this was not a not for-profit organization would that change the analysis in your mind it probably would yes I don't just agree no well I'm asking from a legal point of view I think it probably would um okay because because if it doesn't then what's the point of having the fireworks fee if everyone's just going to ask for it to be removed and we automatically prove them all like this is where I have again I have no problem voting that we approve this and I'll motion that we approve this and move forward but I just want to make sure that if this comes back and it's grco wants to have a 25th anniversary for their you know I and I've said this in the past I think some of these fees for like the large assembly thing I I think for nonprofits I'd routinely weave them um nonprofits just struggle in general and they're there for the public they're there for Greco is people GCO is a different deal it's aprivate company that's to me that's a separate it's a separate question so I I am a member of Magnus I can speak to some of this stuff um you're not a representative of Magnus though true so I don't I'll second motion yeah I'll motion that we approve this request where we at okay we could have done that a half an hour ago that's God I the clarity's good more just add an attorney and M mud the any more discussion all in favor say I I all oppos say no motion curious 5 to zero all right yeah mayor members of council uh Jason on he's got negative 25 minutes so got good luck time travel yep we have talked about this briefly at the last meeting so I will try to run through this quickly um but just a little background so the project authorized as part of the consent agenda for the utility extensions under Territorial Road is in the area highlighted on the screen between Dayton Parkway and Brockton Lane this is just what the improvements themselves would look like it'd be the dashed extensions of the existing sewer and water lines to reach Brockton to the west and then also the Reconstruction of the street uh along that portion this item involves separating out or constructing the portion of the water main highlighted here early the reason for that is to provide a water supply or a water service to the Dayton storage site that is looking to construct earlier um this would expedite that service and therefore allow them to not have to construct on-site Supply and storage for their fire suppression so there's a benefit to that property owner by accelerating this part of the project so the scope is to do just the water be extension it's about 1500 ft it would be directionally drilled as to preser preserve the road um through there it's more expensive method of doing it but without the cost of the road it it limits disruption limits the the scope of the work uh we would be looking at doing 2024 construction which is a fast turnaround on the project but we believe we could do it um they can do this later in the year this type of work without the excavations without too much trouble our initi initial project costs we're estimating about 450,000 um for this part of it U date in storage the property owner would actually fund the entire project um so he would provide a uh uh an escrow account at the city of $500,000 that would be used to fund the project any unused balance at the end of the project would then be returned to the property owner and that was just to take care of their fire suppression yes this so how did Mari just out of curiosity how much did our fire suppression at Public Works cost uh I couldn't tell you I can't I can't believe it was anywhere near that I don't believe it was anywhere near that but okay yeah system the sub the system is a little bit different it's a lot it's a lot bigger they had to go underground which has more excavation and then footings and it's under a structure and this is work that we we could sa right I mean this is this if if if this is construct if it's not constructed with the project we're talking here it would be into the larger project so it would be cheaper than the 450,000 but it would still be an additional cost to that project okay so um we do have just to note we do have verbal agreement with the property owner um to supply this escro um we're in Pro process of working through an escrow agreement um with them just to finalize the the terms of that okay the costs that would be applied to the escrow would include your services the entire the entire cast yes so it' be the construction The Design Services any permitting that would be required um any other indirect costs um there's going to be some bidding um involved so there'll be some publication costs and whatnot but all project costs are are near 450 estimates yes Y what if it goes over the 500 we did set it as a not to exceed or at least that was staff's recommendations so if it did go over the city would pick up the balance of it the next question I have is if we get the if we go through the point where you guys do the work we go for the bids the bids come in it puts over 450 and we as a c say we're not going to cover the remaining balance are they still on the hook to covering your fees up to that point um well we haven't written the agreement yet so we could WR I think that should be included because that's part of the finalizing the costs they know what the they they have a right to know what the costs are and say okay we're out we don't want to cover that but we shouldn't be on the hook for your cost when they're the one driving the project forward sure um yeah we can we can go through that certainly and uh I mean on the other side of that they they need some level of a commitment so they don't continue with their project planning on this extension and then us just saying no it's not going to happen um I mean they'll know once the bid comes in they will I just I don't know the timing of that um but we can work through that with them and um that can all become part of the agreement until both sides are comfortable with so From staff's perspective is that we want to have some sort of again they want to have some sort of reliability that's going to happen um this is a huge asset for us to get that much plenter feet of water main extension for entally even if we had to pay a small amount of dollars it's well worth our investment and it also helps out every other property owner cuz that gets watered that much closer down and we're talking looks like your services are 25k or something give her 10 correct yeah correct so like I said the property owner needs to have some sort of assurance and we came up with a $500,000 escrow and it was easily I'm fine with it he's going to we're going to have the money in the account before we put the back on the ground yeah so we so our first step would be to finalize that escrow agreement before we proceed just to make sure that there's some shity in place that it'll be covered so I would make a motion that we approve this pending the escrow agreement yep I'll second perfect you wanted to do that any more discussion you can have it no you're good okay all those in favor say hi hi hi suppos say no motion carries 5 Z I want you to earn yourself you know and if there hard no objections we'll be a journey all right thank you e