e e call order the Tuesday July 23rd regular meeting of Jon city council stand to the pledge I pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all right Dave is out I we need a motion in a second for the agenda I'll make a motion I'll second any discussion need a mo uh we got a motion in a second all those in favor say I I all those opposed say no motion carries 4 to zero um consent agenda motion a second I'll motion it I'll second any discussion I've got some questions go ahead um so chief for the hazard mitigation plan yes counc it's just I maybe it's just the first time I've seen it but I had some questions on it uh first who and and how did the who chose kind of what went as our follow-ups and how did they get on there is that something you did or H be do it who put those like the risks yeah so that's a collaboration between Marty myself and and chief Inga okay as a result as it relates to like significant storm damage maybe storms tornadoes fires stuff of that nature so we'll use the example of The Crow River with embankments you know if we get get a Rion there we get some other issues if we have um you know like uh in EOC we have have our EOC is over at Public Works um with along with PD but that some improvements need to be made there so it's really based upon you know wind storms fires so forth is kind of what it's all based on and then we take a look at what might be needed in order to mitigate those things and then on there it listed funding sources but the funding sources had numbers next to them I didn't maybe I missed it but I didn't find a correlation to the funding sources for those items and what those numbers meant yeah so there isn't necessarily funding sources associated with those okay those are just specific dollars that we believe it would take to fix or improve those things okay um that are listed and then what happens is let's use the water bill incident as an example um where they have a bunch of flooding um we and if we are impacted um we'd be able to submit to the state there's a state level reimbursement level and then there's the federal reimbursement level it's based upon different factors um but I believe I don't recall for the Waterville incident if they've reached the federal threshold yet they potentially have and then what we do is um if we're impacted we have the ability to tag on to that and then try to figure out if we can mitigate certain things within the community um based on those resources so that's really the only opportunity that we have to gain those dollars if a federal de declaration or state declaration has taken place so some of those things seem preventatives we have to wait for an emergency before the state or federal government will help us is that what I'm hearing you say no we don't have to I mean it's well if we want funding though outside of the city outside of the city yeah we can and Paul can fill in some gaps as well cuz he's here uh council member Char so what happens is if if there's a torn large tornado that affects numerous throughout Minnesota and we reach the federal declaration that money that doesn't get spent goes into mitigation stuff so um like the storm shelter down in the trailer park we're able to being it was on our mitigation plan we're able to submit for FEMA funding okay to get the dollar amount to pay 75% of the storm shelter through FEMA same with the generators that we're doing right now 75% of that comes from um FEMA because we have it in our Hazard mitigation plan um we needed in our mitigation plan to get Federal funding for it so this is the first step to get the funding that we want to fix okay so the next question are there timelines on there on some of those things and I didn't I didn't it looked I didn't see a lot of those on the capital Improvement plan either so are we are there no timelines to fix some of those things they're just on the capital Improvement plan should they be on the capital Improvement plan uh so the city's portion of it is 25% if we ever go for a grant to do like the stabilization projects along the miss Mississippi or the crow um some of those are like water storage like some like large amounts of water storage in case there was an emergency right like some of these are yeah that is the that is actually related to what we've already trying to get with the water tower gotcha in for fire suppression and that stuff so some of that stuff that's what we're trying to recognize the needs for within the community so if dollars become available okay if we're not able to fund okay are there so are there items that the three of you are going to propose get added to the CIP because we because they're more urgent than others or is this all just kind of like we've been through an exercise and that's the end of it like what's next I guess is my question I we're going to prove this thing and I don't really know if you're reading it what's next nothing has to be next it's it depends on a project if we come to a project that we decide that is going to need to happen um and we can it through FEMA that's where you would look at dollars and where to put dollars um right now we have no projects that we're looking at accomplishing or going for grants for at this time so we we're not putting anything on the CIP to to fund that 25% and is there a reason that we're not going to get funding from the federal government for any of these right now are they all that low risk in your opinion or what's driving our decision a lot of it I mean the erosion control obviously we don't have a huge issue with flooding outside of that the one house maybe uh that gets impacted from the Mississippi um you know if we could get you there's some things that we need to make an improvement like for the EOC there's technology that needs to be improved there we could use a backup facility we could put some of those things in um there's many opportunities throughout that whole list that we could put in there it was long list yeah that's why I mean I'm just trying to figure out what comes next yeah no and that that's a valid question I think it's an opportunity to sit down and go through it but again it's we're trying to prioritize along with you to prioritize what dollars and what things are needed or they may be over others in some capacity obviously we made an attempt with the state legislature for the water tower obviously we're still uh pursuing that um but a lot of it the hazard mitigation plan is put together so that we are eligible for funding if it ever comes available now that doesn't mean that we can't fund it ourselves um um but I haven't honestly and Paul and I haven't had a lot of time to sit down and look at okay how would we fund this what would be the priorities in that capacity this was a thing that got thrown to us because they do it every five years so at hanpin County say hey we need to get this done it was we sat down and did it but then the opportunity to implement that into the CIP that hasn't taken place yet yeah I think it'd be good for us to understand at least for me to like your list those priority wise which are the highest priority for the city and which the lowest priority I think it's awful CU some of those things aren't I'm going to say everything costs money they're not super expensive like some of them are like 20 grand or something it wasn't anything crazy and so especially if we have to go get feema dollars for it I want to make sure we have our ducks in a row so we know what that looks like if we're going to do sure yeah there's my plan for emergency management is actually to bring in because I don't think it's very well known as far as responsibilities from Council so the idea for next year probably early in the year I want to bring in somebody to provide education to Council on what responsibilities are at that level and then kind of it'll kind of go from there but trying to get my feet under me as it relates to other things um it hasn't been a high priority it should be a high priority but it's just based on time okay thank you I've got one more question for a different subject the fire truck that we're donating yes if we were to sell that to the company that we buy and you get buy vehicles from did they ever give us a dollar one on what they think the vehicle would sell for uh they didn't they weren't interested I asked them if they're interested and there was no yeah there's no value to them on what we could get for it perfect thank you that's all I have anybody else all right uh we got a motion second all those in favor say I I all those opposed say no consent approved 4 to zero we're on the open Forum anybody here for open Forum call forward open forum is limited to three minutes for non-agenda items state your name and address no conso action will be taken and items will be referred back to staff come on up yep you state your name and address and then we'll have you fill out a sheet yep okay perfect over just make sure you speak clearly in speak clearly into the mic over you okay we can pass them down my name is John Waldren I'm at 209 York at the Dayton mobile home park and uh I'm going to try to make this quick uh I'm addressing uh a few of the issues and concerns that we've had there at the park obviously you all are aware that we've been bought and sold a few times over the last four years uh and really haven't had the proper adequate management at the park um I want to address uh e and G on this here sheet uh it comes from the website the American legal publishing which I got a copy of this from Dayton City Hall here last year um again e andg uh our parking issues and concerns um there shall be adequate areas of uh parking for the park uh we don't have that we haven't had that uh since the park has been bought and sold a few times and downsized um so uh a huge concern is the parking we've tried addressing this several times with prior management and the current management uh without success also um proper management at the park uh which would be G um manager an adult caretaker a manager must be on duty or in about the mobile home park at all times there shall be an office for the use of the manager distinctly marked office and such marking shall be illuminated during all hours of Darkness uh pretty much we just have one property manager there and our offices only open Monday through Friday uh during normal business hours any other calls would go to a call center you know after hours or routed to another property manager when our manager is not on site we do not have a full-time maintenance guy uh maintenance on site they bring in somebody for maintenance one day a week and also they uh sub out the other maintenance uh needs for the park such as lawn care and and various things like that so if there is an emergency we do not have have anybody on site and that's a huge concern for everybody in the park um I guess like right now today I'm just trying to you know bring this to the the city council's attention um new owners of August tenant management and maintenance um part-time covered that yeah cuz they they purchased the park uh last August I believe it was and we only had uh management there Monday Wednesday Friday part-time and half the time they'd have the office do is locked um so it wasn't until this last April that we had somebody there and she's actually from a different state with with the uh the owners of the park um so just I know I'm trying to cut this because I got the three minutes but um yeah just things that we need to hopefully be able to address and get the help from from City Hall and city council and started addressing for for the uh residents at the date mobile home park okay thank you is this from Arco yes it is okay okay so you guys H up on that then thank you yeah and I was informed that you know the city of Dayton would follow the state's codes and ordinances when it comes to this thank you appreciate thank you anybody else for open Forum yes my name is sh N I live at 39 Al drive and D Park um I've been there you also fill out a sheet yeah okay thank you live there I've lived there 26 years and I've seen a lot of stuff go on and the most thing that's bothered me lately is when they allowed quick trip to go in um there was no signs put up no speed limits nothing for over a year now there's a sign there's digitals there's trucks racing up and down the roads I've got videos I've got um where they run over the Medan come into our park on my street I've had to block my windows off so that the truck drivers that are parking there at night are not looking in their vehicles run all night long we have kids that play on that street I'm really concerned about those kids um I would like to see some speed bumps put in there on their Road and their grass is not cut I've got bad allergies I've ended up in the hospital twice since they have not cut their grass they tried to on a rainy day and it broke the underneath of the tractors and stuff they've never come back since so it looks really horrible as a quick trip being quote a good company they're sure not doing good by their neighbors at all and then also um the warehouses that are allowed behind there um it was filthy dirty there was no water trucks out there the Mounds are not being m um some of the neighbor yards are getting flooded because the Mounds are right up to the back of their there is no Gap at all on those malls none of that stuff and people are having to clean out their driveways cuz they're full of water and stuff and it's not appropriate that we should have to live like this paying the taxes we pay not in a not in that town because Dayton is a well-known town and we shouldn't have to deal with any of that I shouldn't have to block my windows off so people don't look in I would like a wall put up there not Shrubbery because I have a tree in my backyard that's 150 years old it's hooked to my water pipe and my sewer pipes I've asked them I've wrote them a letter to try to get it trimmed it's ruining the top of my roof my trailer's older and it's ruining my neighbor's room it's hanging over that far to where I can see it out my living room window the maintenance is not good there um but mainly my concern right now is the Quick Trip Road 118 I want something done about that because I am not happy with what's going on there on that road we're getting semis in there we're getting dump trucks full of dirt we're getting tired they're coming in on our access which is deemed a city access an easement and that shouldn't be those heavy Vehicles shouldn't be coming into our main with that big of a load quick uh FedEx told me to f off the other day when I told them they're supposed to go in the other way and come around we've called them um the police station has called them also and I don't think as citizens of Dayton we should be treated like that or this problem shouldn't this problem should have been handled when this quick trip went up this should not have been done like this because you're going to put Shrubbery in the management told me it's going to ATT tap to the water M there and then it's going to go right cuz I have Mains that come off that water M go right to the corner of my trailer and the sewer Ms and it's they're already getting plugged last fall we had over I would say 50 brakes on the water Ms already and that's a lot in an older trailer park because when Gary owned it they would fix them as they broke it these guys are taking four to 5 hours 6 hours a day to fix our water Ms and I don't know what going on and every so often we'll get a text stating our water Ms are going up or our water's going up well we don't get the Tex until 2 hours later some days and then we get it and then the water doesn't go off then they're coming in with the big trucks trying to EMP out empty out the sewer on burns 42 Burns there there's a big sewer thing in their backyard so I mean those big trucks are just not acceptable because we're going to end up paying the maintenance because if we can get a a tonnage sign at the front entrance where those big huge semis cannot come in that would help out a lot because those Mains are going to break that I think that Park is 80 years old somewhere in there I don't want to pay for the trucks coming in I'm taking pictures and videos cuz if it comes down to it I will hire an attorney I am not I'm just done I can't sleep at night you know the noise my dogs are constantly barking there's no room for this kind of mistake that shouldn't have happened should not ofen at all all right thank you appreciate it thank you add one one more thing real quick about our management okay I need to speak into the thing here that car crash um just real quick about our management and the lack of management there um right now currently the office is closed and there's a sign on the front door that says the office will be closed July 18th through 25th please call and then they give the number for assistance with questions in emergencies and all it is is just just their call center where it's going to be routed so there's nobody on site so for for a week nobody's there and this has happened a couple of times already over the past few months where the current manager would take time off and nobody would be there there to to fill it all right thank you thank you anybody else for open Forum all right uh we is anybody online for open Forum um so if you're online to speak in open Forum if you use the raise your hand function I'm not seen okay we will move on to staff consultant Council updates is that yep um good evening mayor and members of council I'm still getting caught up from being off last week so I have nothing so thank you very much all right news is is we survived last week we would uh but uh this Friday so on the 26th uh direct balloting will start for the primary that's happening right now um so if you're interested in absentee voting starting on Friday you get to put your ballot into the ballot machine as all that means and that will happen up until the day before election day on election day you will go to your polling thank you good evening Mary Kels I got a couple of things this time um Danielle and I have been working with a company called I9 uh Sports uh they run some summer camps um particularly through an Noah hanapin schools um they wanted to do a standalone project and asked Dayton if they could do something here um so we're going to run a pilot scheme with them um on Brianna Scurry field here it's going to run from August 12 which is a Monday to Friday August the 16th um it's a half day program um from 99 to 12 um there'll be three Sports included in there um flag football soccer and baseball um the program is focused basically on skill Improvement so there's not going to be a lot of wear and tear on the uh Fields out there uh they provide all the equipment they do the setup and they do the tear down they Market the program and they handle all the registration uh there will be a fee paid to City of Dayton for uh using the the fields um I did speak with uh cdaa to let them know we were going to do this uh their only concern was that there' be some wear and tear on the field um however their football season finishes on August 9th so okay they shouldn't really interfere with that um so you know we'll see how that goes and see how many people get registered um moving on to roads uh the mill and oay project ticket Hills uh Mill and overlay has been completed um other than the punch list there um 152nd has been milled and patchwor completed there's still some prep work to do over there they're planning on um PVE in either Friday or the following Monday um ship and fog seal project we had a precon today uh they're going to start moving in uh the chip uh material um hauling into the old Public Works uh shop there for stockpiling um they are planning our starting uh the chip seal um Wednesday and Thursday next week um then the following Monday they will uh broom that off and then the following Friday they will broom it off again to get rid of the excess Rock and then the following Monday they will U be doing the fog hill part of that it's a loose timeline at the moment but they're going to send me something that I'll put up on the website uh you get all the streets done in that timeline so again they get all the streets done in that timeline yeah wow thank you uh the street lights on territorial are being repaired to copper wire that was removed um they start on that you say removed they're being removed or are you the Diplomatic term there uh so uh there's going to be a little bit of an impact to completing the project because the opest project have got to move two of the street lights on the run so we'll get up to those and once those have been uh uh replaced in a new spot we'll connect those up as well and then the whole thing will be done so that's probably going to be end of August until it's so there was no alternative Solutions looked at for all that copper um I asked about using aluminum and they said well that it's not as conductive as the car so you go a cable doing that so did ask for a couple of different things there there wasn't really a valid solution than using the coer that's all I have for this week car good evening mayor members of council uh just an update on hiring we're into the home stretch if you will of I'll bringing on four new firefighters that are currently uh being seen um by Medical at this time and hopefully have them on board middle of next month sometime nothing John uh August 27th is a work session for the master plan YY and Scott I got one little deal um I attended the uh concert on Friday at Stevens Park and in the park on uh one of the little sign post deal there's a little sign that says hey we're looking for donate donators for uh next year's summer series finding Grant finding great great that we're looking for that I mean sorry I think we're all clu lifs I don't know what you're talking about you talk well anyway apparently we're having a summer summer series next year possibly was this maybe done by the band no no it's our sign yeah it was for Waterville that was any donation thing down there no it says summer series right on the sign get a picture anyway I seen something about donation to it that was odd sign where I'm going was taking donations for something we're your way so don't we don't need to get concerned about it sounds where I'm going with that is is I have a lot of disappointment that we just all of a sudden drop everything at Stevens and we're not doing nothing there uh as far as the shelters uh we came up with a couple Alternatives there they just went right out the Wayside nope they haven't gone out we need to get engineering drawing sorted out for those and do it through the normal process that we do for bidding any of those kind of shelters um otherwise we're not going to get Apples to Apples comparisons on the prices and we'll end up you know potentially with some change orders for things that happen on site so I want to do it the right way so we get you know good solid bids it's the same thing that we're doing with the irrigation and um the other Bridge there so it's the same process we're just taking it out the bigger contract um and just separating these out small things to see if we can get them done this year so we're going to still try to get them done we're trying to get them done this year Paul's working on it now that's that's reassuring because otherwise the whole summer series is pushed out until 26 I hate I mean you most most entertainment bands will not perform at that stage I hate you okay all right so um I understand you're right you're you're initially I thought you you guys were looking at another source for the design work we are looking at another source for um The Master Plan update if we want to revisit this um next year's stuff we can certainly do that um Paul is a long way along with the project um I don't know if another company would want to step in and pick it up at this stage but I can certainly ask if that's where the council wants to go with it I've talked to at least two other companies um that are interested in the master plan and I'm sure if we wanted them to do something with um where we're at now with the project I can certainly ask those questions if that's what you guys want to do yeah personally I think we should have somebody else looking at this thing it does seem like especially over the frustration that you guys had um it seems like that was mhm not very well predicted and suddenly we're you're out effectively um I don't know I would I mean if one company's too busy I call another company to get it done yeah yeah we're just a long way down the process here so the Handover is going to take a little bit of time um and try to get the feedback to why we ended up where we're at now what the playground looks like what those sizes are I mean if it comes down to just putting a b package together from what we got and then putting it out to bid I think you I don't know how much time we will save but you know if we want to use a different company for it then I'm fine with that let forward we definitely need to look at other companies or we have these put them out and say we want to get these this work done this coming year come bid on these projects and give us a timeline I think that's helpful for this year I'm kind of on the fence just because I don't know if it's really going to speed anything along for I think it's all going to get even if we move to some else I think it's going be the same timelines if we don't move to someone else for this one for this for this this year's problem problem I yeah I agree future yeah definitely I would be looking to do rfps for you know the next and for the the master plan for sure is there any way we can all so I guess the bottom line is there's not much we can do about this year's still thinking about trying to trying to do something I mean that's at least somewhat reassuring rather then hey we'll just wait for the other guy to get his ducks in a row and everybody will sit and do nothing for a year that's just not good with me I I'm and I'm not trying to do that I'm trying to keep the project moving forward that's that's you know where I want to get to um at the very least I want to be in a good position to bid early next year so we got a chance of getting a good early start late spring rather than in the summer so okay you know if we can get all the pro the planning and everything done by the end of this year we should be in a really good shape to get something in there um finish next year the whole I want to get the all of the project finished next year all three parts yeah all right cool that's it else well uh the only other thing I've got is uh I think somebody for the glasses the repaired glasses brand new set or something here I tried to find pink ones I would it wouldn't bother me and uh on the payment of claims Paul there's your $11,000 car that's for the motor swimming and there there was no coverage there really we state that yeah should have been a Chevy clearly you're done Travis um attended the concert in the park and I thought it was actually quite quite a blast it was good to meet people and uh the little inconvenient time that I had to spend away but I got back to see it to wrap it up and I thought it was a really cool uh little show it's cool to see him grow every year that we put him on so I really enjoyed myself there so yeah on hiding um so I attended Metra cities had a meeting with the Met Council uh to go over what they're going to be covering on for the 2050 comp plans some Zach mentioned a couple updates ago um so they're changing the minimum density uh of the category we're in from three per acre to four breaker and they had a lot of excuses such as greenhouse gas has global warming and a few others but the bottom line is they're going to go to four um and what was odd was they agreed that the category we're in we're in um emerging suburban suburban Edge that's correct um they agree that everybody in that category seated their goals but they're going to push for four regardless because the other categories apparently didn't meet their criteria um there CS is saying that they're going to implement a policy of limiting Musa growth and when I asked can we move our Musa lines um I got a very quick no um so they want to limit the growth but they don't want to change what they have um and and the other thing was they they mentioned that there's enough land in their current muel line to get them housing out to 2150 not 2050 they said 2150 so they have plenty of land in that Musa order um they said they would be open to reducing the Musa but they effectively said don't hold your breath and then they said they wanted to give flexibility to the cities and I have no idea what that meant cuz I didn't hear that um the other thing they uh announced was the average densities that they're going to calculate per decade now instead of over the plan so the pl typically get them um 20 plus years and so they what they were seeing was what you would expect people are bunching high density up in out years and doing lower density in in the current so they're kind of clamped down on that um that was the gist of the meeting and uh that's all I got I think like everyone else up here I attended the event and Tell Daniel she did a great job so that's good um and then the other thing that I think uh I'd like to see in the next city council meeting if we could have a conversation around term limits for commissions I think could be helpful thank you all I have all right we are on to item G budget discussion yeah good evening mayor members of council um we have talked about both sides of the budget um and by both sides I mean the general fund side and also the CIP side so we had a meeting at the beginning of June for the general fund side of things we had a meeting at the last council meeting for a work session related to the CIP or long-term plan um I had not changed anything or updated anything based on you know what we've talked about so far what looking tonight as Department directors and myself are looking for responses or feedback from the council what I have on the screen right now on the Le hand side of the screen is the current tax levy um and the potential incre increase or um proposed increase by Department directors based on the conversations we've had so far on the right hand side is to show what the tax rate would do with the said tax levy increase in the left-hand side so what um residents need to look at is the tax rate number on the bottom if the tax rate number goes up that means that you will pay slightly more taxes next year if your house value stays the same if it stays the same your house um and your house value stays the same you will pay the same amount of taxes next year no matter what the um tax will be increased is on the left hand side so it is critical that you look at the tax rate and not just the tax levy increase um although it is a factor in there it is not the direct Factor um as you can see the tax capacity went up quite a bit and that's the top line on the right hand side of that screen it went from 232 to 269 um most of that or 14.2% of that increase that's about a 16% 16.2% increase 14.2% of that is from New Growth or new items in town not from previous growth the average house went up about 1% in hopen county in the city of Dayton for 2025 from 2024 I do want to show one more quick thing before we just get discussing if this thing wants to move there we go it oh yep that capacity added I I just what was the increase percentage wise 16.2% yep 16.2% was the total increase 14.2 of that is related to New Growth um and then the 2% difference there is an average of of households and values and Commercial businesses and so on and so forth the average house value went up 1% that's what I've been told by H County this is what the impact on a tax bill if your house save the exact same value year-over-year left hand side the second column in that says 2024 actual is the amount of dollars that the city of Dayton would take in from a home of that valuation on the leftand column the third column over with the information of 2025 preliminary is how much you would pay next year in taxes so for the average home of $525 um you would pay $22 more a year or $183 per month more in taxes based on the current requested amount by City staff I'm going to go back to the previous screen if the council has any questions we can always go back to the that screen there um but I'm myself along with per directors are here to stand for any questions you may have any comments um provided hopefully provided enough information for the council to make some comments or decisions on or whatever and we can have discussion so one of the things I had a question on was the um the one one page one pagers yep CIP one pagers yes um I didn't see the funding sources on there I know some of those were already funded um by different sources you mean yeah by grants or by or as if we already part the money from last year oh um I did not add funding sources as part of the cip1 pagers so that might be kind of nice because it'd be nice to see know we've already funded this thing it's okay yeah the only two that we have funded that are in that plan at all or 100% funded are the um is the pum tender pumper tender for the fire department that's been um it'll be fully funded next year in 2025 or 2026 sorry with the $475,000 dedicated for the um tanker tanker engine the tanker for station one once that has been done then that will be fully funded that pumper tender that we ordered um but that is the only thing that's been fully funded in that plan that I'm aware of okay so all the capital required for next year yes is comes right out of comes right out of the levy that is correct correct y I think it's roughly $1 million is the amount of equipment I can pull think it's staying C at least in the Capital Equipment fund yeah it's 1, 151,000 um we did move $6,500 of that which is the appliance replacement which I sent out the updated um long-term plan to Council on two weeks ago's weekly update um then move the $6,500 off to 2028 um for their plants replacement at at the activity centers because we don't need their plants is replaced um we had previous staff that thought we needed to and we did not so but really it's about a million dollars worth of equipment so then a question that I would add to that would be if you go through them all basically the loader is got to go on the levy the uh tooro lawnmower would go on the levy yep uh um what brings in a question then is it would be helpful to know I know there's like the one ton truck that's on there we've had a couple of trucks for 3 4 years on the CIP yep but we haven't bought them so that money is sitting someplace or maybe it's gone already nope dedicated still I think we purchased all the backlog trucks they all came in this year I think there was uh one turn and two F350s I think and then there was the bigger trucks as well the single axle and the tandem correct it would be really helpful to know uh there's like four years of s four years of signs at 15,000 bucks or so that's in a different fund yep that's in the 410 fund yep it would really be helpful to know what kind of money is just sitting around because I can't see spending 150,000 on City Signs in the next couple years for sure sure yeah so there is a on every fund there is a SE a back sheet on every one of those funds that shows the cash flow for them okay and there is a 2023 actual column that shows what actually is in the bank right now for that fund and that's where you see how much is available currently so the 401 fund is currently negative because we prepaid for that pump tender at station one and we're going to use future Levy to pay for that that's why it will be out of negative once we get to that point where we have it all of it funded from 2026 I believe is on the last 475,000 comes in but um all of the other funds have a balance in there so I'll go to the 410 fund that you just referenced related to the signs um right now in the 410 fund at the end of the year we had $1.28 million that's on that second sheet of that fund 410 it says 2023 actual column and it has a cash balance in there what we have in there current that has not been spent and rather than leving more as long as we if we're not going to buy this whatever that piece of equipment is I might as well just drain that money and use it for something other than leving for it in my opinion but you're taking so if you were to use it to buy Capital Equipment I could get behind that using onetime money to offset reoccurring charges that are in the levy just sets up next year for then you to be in a deficit if you're if you're going to purchase it all find I get that that's why I said if you're going to take the money out of pot a to buy something from pot B but pop B is not a reoccurring cost that's fine in my mind if you're going to use that to lower the levy percentage then you're getting a problem where the next year you're short no you'd use it to pay for Capital onetime use that's what I just said that's that's already going into the ly yes as long as that money is ear Mark for one time use yes yeah no I agree that one time use money should be one time use well in the past we haven't done that so that's why we used the money we got from the federal government spread over two years to get the ly low correct the one we used it for no we covered that we used it for one time equipment U no so the we used the debt for for 300K and then we use the 250 which was the remains of that fund for a one-time purchase yep and then we use the arpa dollars that were 320 no 360,000 we got a total of $720,000 from the federal government y 360 of it went to a one-time um funding of the electrical extension line for the well treatment plant um and then the other 360 went into the general fund to be utilized over two years to cover the tax levy we used 180 every year 182 600 something okay so yeah um I think that first Chun that went towards all that was a Broadband thing correct yep the first one was went to broadband yeah yep so my point is I just don't want to do that again that's all yeah my only point is if we're not going to buy something we might as well take that money and use it for something but uh another question from Marty then on the on the loader on the onepage sheet just for clarification the 1992 is no longer really reliable so it's basically Salvage it's what sorry the 199 92 loader is no longer really reliable so you don't really use it that much no we yeah we we use it for loading salt trucks just at the shop it's not something that you're going to send on a trip around the city with a plow on it for sure you might have to go get it or something yeah uh right underneath that it says we have a 2008 Cat Loader that will transition into the roll and also be available for snow plowing so I guess my question is is do you really do you want another loader is yeah because the loaders are really helpful on uh doing uh the the residential streets they're not you know they can't put the salt down but they they are quick to get there they're great around the colder saxs and managing that kind of stuff and we uh will use it around the shop you know during during the summer and stuff for loading vehicles and for going out on site for doing work on gravel roads that kind of thing so has an all round use for for the year um so we yeah two of those in in in uh what we used to run with we had two at moment and they're both used okay and it would yeah that one would be a good backup plow if you know we have a truck go down or something like that we could use that second loader to go out on the streets and do the plowing and we would load the the vehicles with the the John Deere bucket truck which isn't as uh efficient but it it will do the job in a pinch okay so on that piece I think that's may be something we can probably find used too depending on what's out there we start looking I think that that's something I mean you've got basically 400 Grand set aside for the M snow blower for the front end loader and the front end loader yeah the snow blows going away so I think that cost came down to about 400,000 I think 400 for both of them is that what we said yeah so I I messed up when I put this together when I wrote the long-term plan together I have8 for the snowblower and 320 for the front end loer totally 400,000 right right now it sounds like the front end loader went up so much that we're not going to even get the snowblower sounds like yeah that's exactly yeah is that so that the 80 needs to just go to the 400,000 for the front end loader to get rid of the 880,000 for the snowblower okay so either way it's 400 that's that's why just get one less piece correct all the more reason to maybe look if there's a 22 Model out there that is yeah I I would I would imagine might be to save like 100 grand we found something that was used in decent condition that I'm not saying you got to buy something that's a 2012 that's not what I'm saying no but I think you could probably buy something in the 2020s that you could find a good price on and you could save a significant chunk of money we could certainly look into that I mean we've done that with other things that we bought recently as well and I'm not averse to that idea um so if there's some savings to be done with that then we can certainly look at it the other you mind if I jump in real quick go ahead go ahead um the the other piece I have is is uh right below that is the skid steer stomp grinder so um I have a couple concerns overall I know we have the skid steer it's fun to drive they Mak stump grinders for it that's awesome um if the skid steer goes down you no longer have a a stump grinder you need the skid steer for something else you can't use a stump grinder and you can buy Standalone stump grinders from 2500 to $6,500 online brand new um that are either like ones that companies use to grind the stumps they're like a oneman deal with two wheels and you can go out and get in tight places and get things or even some of the ones for 6500 are like nicer professional ones that have like the screens that come up and everything so I I I would encourage or maybe pressure you to find another option than trying to find one that works on the skid steer because I I don't I'm sure it'll be the quickest fastest most fun toy that way but I do think that there are other options that would save us some money in like half the price of that I think just a quick Googling add it online that's what I was able to find I will look into that um I think that the you we have two skits there so know gives us the flexibility and to swap out tools on the Fly is fairly easy with those with the quick couplers and stuff so we got the grapple and everything on site so it's just moving from one thing to the other um it's really efficient to do that I know it's going to be a safe option to do that but I will certainly look into other options there um that seems like an item that would show up in that I remember if you call that a co-op but that thing yeah seems like a perfect thing for it there are some people out there with them I don't know if anybody in our group has got a stump grinder I mean not a lot of people got a bucket truck or anything like that um we've used grapples from other people but um I could look into that as well it just seems like some of this stuff that isn't I mean it'd be different if it was something that you'd have to use after a a storm or something CU now everybody's using it sure but it just seems like that's that's I don't know stum doesn't have to be removed immediately either right right the tree goes down we clear the tree right the stump could be taken out 2 weeks later 3 weeks later whatever depending on correct I mean it was in high demand and we couldn't get it right away we have rented stump grinders um to do this you know with our new tree program we are taking out dead trees and there's a lot more emerald ash trees that are going to be coming down in the city so there's going to be a lot of use for that and I was just thinking if we don't if we're going to be using it that much does it pay to rent it or does it pay it to buy it for that that number so when you rent a sump gr are you renting one for a skid steer or you just renting a Standalone piece no we're renting for a skid St and what's it cost to rent it for the and you're going to ask me that I don't have that number on the top of my head all right thank you how often do you me it's well we rented it for a couple of weeks last year um because we just getting this program running um but you know the more we're doing every year there's going to be more trees to take down like I said with the emerald ashing coming through that's going to be a big impact for us and it's going to get a lot of usage I'm not saying we don't need one my point is is I think there's probably don't think you did a $155,000 one like I I think you get a really nice one from what I could even when Zach and I were looking there today for 6,500 bucks you can get a really nice one it's just a standal load unit well I it's one more engine to change the oil on I'm sure but you know you your guys I'm sure can handle it yeah I will look into what that is I mean I don't think the guys are looking for fancy toys they're just looking for something that is going to be safe and reliable to use on all the the uh situations that they're going to be put into yeah sure I guess we're the go ahead you ready you done yeah yeah sorry okay as long as you're on a storm I was going to I got I got to commend you firing out that used equipment stuff I like it hang out see uh let's see now let's really dig into the uh nuts and bolts of this whole program here uh 12 percent is about 1.25 million I think or 16% I mean oh yep sure yeah do math question we're asking for uh 18 uh so other than the 16% tax capacity we still want another 2% on top of that I am just this is strictly business for me I am just not on board on the desired list somewhere along the line we we've got 1853 that we have to to fund that's cost increases that are going up on the desired list I'll call it the wish list you guys call it the desired list um if we are going to when I talked to Danielle uh in depth the other night if we are going to do the summer series for concerts she's got a very limited budget as far as what kind of money she can spend for entertainment and her idea and maybe maybe she's the one that put the sign there because nobody else knows about it um she would like to have four summer concerts of some sort there so in my opinion out of the desired list here's here's all I'm in favor of and there's some stipulations with it I would throw another 10,000 bucks at uh the activity money for um for for summer series specifically for the entertainment side of it that doesn't include no wage no know I just don't see it being a full-time job yet a year ago when Teresa left we were told yep yep it's not a full-time job but now all of a sudden year a year later it is um it's not being proposed as a full-time job huh it's not being proposed as a full-time job it's just going um more y so from 20 hours to 3s there I just I don't see it sure okay yeah I mean we don't there's three or four events I mean they don't take that' be uh 250 hours for each event I think she do more than that sure you're just talking music events she is way more than that no no no no no we did the uh the bunny rabbit thing out here Easter thing yep uh the the Christmas signing thing yep and I don't know if there's anything more the concert in the park the family fun night okay there so that's four events yep there were a couple more in there too I think that garage sale a garage I City Garage she also and she takes care of all the weddings that go on the community center in fairness to her she's going to give me she I would like to see a revenue list out of what happens at that Community Center but anyway um I agree with um the uh the flock system I I think it's a good asset to have U mainly for me any missing child or abducted kid that if that license plate runs across the deal he's notified immediately that's where I see value can I ask a question that y so I I agree it's a valuable system I'm not trying to to downplay that with what I'm about to ask how many of our neighboring cities have that system Champlain does right Maple Grove Rogers off a whole Champlain Maple Grove Rogers is getting them oigo Ana oigo I don't believe has so here's the question I have when we talked you said you put these at all the city all the entrances into the city if all the neighboring cities have them on their entrances anyways why do we need them on those same entran says why don't we just put them on the ones where they're missing because we don't get the shared data but if the purpose of it is is let's just say an amber alert right it's going to go through the system they're going to run it anyways share cost saying so so like why why would we have a camera here on the road and a camera there on the road because we you can't see it because we we can't talk to the neighboring City and say hey we think something went out can you just run this license plate through your database we no because it's not their system so so the flock system is owned by flock mhm okay and you have to become a member of it to become to get their data so if Champlain doesn't notify us that they have an LPR hit um we we're never notified unless we have the camera system and there's no mechanism to notify you from Champlain right correct so right now Champlain is doesn't even receive the shared data from an NOA because they don't have the minimum amount of cameras required by flock to be part of the shared data so they do have a shared data program you just have to have X number of cameras how many cameras is X yeah eight so can we get do we need 10 then or we just need eight technically to cover every entrance and access into the city it would be 10 but if we have eight and we have shared access and then the other cities have on the border we don't need them on the border right well it depends where they put their camera system I can't control where they're putting their camera system and I it's only two cameras I just it dawned me the other day that we're literally going like this with cameras and it seems wonky to me yeah some of them I think Champlin has them along 169 and a couple other locations but I don't know if they're covering every access into their City the other area where I would see some value is if you get Steven's Park up and you got a stage there and and some other equipment there if you had a camera at that at that entrance you'd know if there was some Vandal vandalism going on I would think maybe I don't know I don't know if that helps or not but we'd just be able to view if license plates that were in the park during that time correct right yeah so you got somebody to trace back to anyway I mean absolutely so I see value to that yeah I again I I think it's valuable my concern was just putting two cameras side by side work other cities and save everyone money by figuring like like Paul said though you don't know whether uh Rogers has got one on South time and like Rod over by the holiday or if they do they have it right at wonder if we could work with them and then if we could just pay flock a smaller subscription and get access to the data but it sounds like we have to have at least eight to do that but if we were to coordinate well with our neighboring cities we could probably save everyone money cover all the entrances between all the cities so when we look into when we're actually going to buy them or purchase them we'll look at where Champlain has their cameras and where um Rogers has their cameras or where they're proposing their cameras um and then we'll make the decision if we need 10 eight and then we'll play some where best fit throughout our city but we have to have at least eight to get minum of eight to get the accessive thank you uh the other there's another one here that's a big one actually there's two more here that are really big ones um I can see value and um where where I don't see the value yet and I don't even know if I can be seded um I talked to uh Champlain in an NOA the fire full-time fire department I just don't see it and I don't understand how they can do it Champlain does it with two full-time fire fire department people um an noa's got two I don't understand why a two cities of 25,000 and we're 10 we need four I'm just not there however and I talked to Travis a little bit about uh this at the park the other night both of those cities their medical calls go to the police department I don't understand why don't why we don't want to try that because council member slanic the their police departments have minimums of two to four ours is a minimum of one cop on at all times yeah so we're not always available to respond to the Medicals um and we're trying to be proactive also um with North being 15 minutes out it a lot of times having one of our guys on a medical for 15 minutes that's well when they can show up and take care of the medical and we can leave the scene um that way the fire department's handling that portion of it there's got to be a way some way that that medical thing can be and I have no idea how the Call Comes in does it say Susie fell and she needs help getting up do you know whether you need to whether you need to send a fire truck right away or whether or not a station or a Suburban works or an SUV cman Sonic yeah I mean we can make adjustments to what we send but at the end of the day um currently right now for a couple reasons we sent our engine um the idea of what I proposed on June 11th in our email conversations you're on we're on the same page I believe you and I are just maybe not an understanding of kind of how it works if you will you you and I talked about a scheduling um type thing and the duty crew model is a scheduled um system for the firefighters it does provide some predictability the problem that we get into the reason for the request for the two full-time staff is to balance the work life balance of the firefighters So currently right now if you think about it anyone on council with kids or other activities this takes a lot of your time outside of your personal life um they have their family and there so their family it might be they have two kids or one kid and they have to get those kids someplace then they have their significant other whatever their needs may be then they have their career and then this is depending on the first three it could be number four so from a recruitment and retention perspective my proposal kind of balances that out the recruitment part of it is um $30 an hour potentially that gives some advantages to working at maybe the local grocery store whatever you can else you can think of um but the bigger aspect of it is is the retention part keeping firefighters is immensely difficult I have two that are out on leave right now actually I'm sorry I have one that's out on leave right now I anticipate that that firefighter is not going to come back because they're not able to balance it out within their their life you know with everything else going on um so the retention part is huge um cost of of a firefighter if we lose a firefighter excuse me um it's about $7,881 roughly to replace that firefighter for every firefighter we lose for training and whatever yep training and everything else so as you can imagine every time we lose one and then we lose 18 to 24 months of that training time some starting over again so from that ability to respond and meet the needs of the the community we're struggling to do that today the example is the structure fire that we had a lightning strike a couple weeks ago um a couple Sundays ago um we arrived with four firefighters six I thought well four payon call Kevin and myself responding back as full-time staff um to assist with that but four fir Fighters um were not able to um do anything did you put that and have Zach pull up um something that I think is important to articulate What It Takes I know Scott you had said that you know 25% of the department um was outstanding response I think that's great personally uh unfortunately to a structure fire uh it's not and I apologize it's hard to read this and I don't have my glasses on so I'm going to stand up oh boy oh oh no not that every time there we go um there we go thanks Zach um this is what it's required or what's needed to fight a fire switches can you stop we're deleting this why does it do that I don't know why it does it it does it every time likes that picture better it does like slide sholo slide um so we had four firefighters um four firefighters doesn't allow me to basically conduct I'm limited to two in and two out that's ocean 1910.156 that is coming more things are coming from that as we look towards that um those uh needs as well but here as you can see total on SC to be 17 this is assuming down the road that we have our aerial in operation in this case it was imperative that we had one um that took some time to get but we have an incident commands we have a chief officer we have a ladder truck has one officer and three firefighters and then we have three engines one officer and three firefighters and then one firefighter um of the lad trucks assigned to victim rescue one's assigned to one firefighter sign signed to incident command and one officer firefighter signed to what we call Rick or rap rapid intervention team in order to rescue our own so with four firefighters we had a significantly difficult time to put put the fire out uh that we had um part of it was not our issue um I need to make um to reach out to the County Commissioners because we had a significant issue at dispatch where we did not receive our Auto aid for 45 minutes um because the storm came through um that's that side of the house so I'm working on that to develop a plan for henip and Chiefs to meet with the County Commissioners and let them know that we need to have support at the county side for dispatch but for us for firefighters is not adequate and it's not the fire department's fault I had a discussion with the fire department last Thursday at training saying you know what it's a Saturday night it's during the summer you guys could have been out of your cabin you could have been out having a cocktail whatever the case may be so that's why we have the mass numbers so to speak so even with my request because I'm sure the question will come up with full-time Staffing is it going to fix that problem at 2:30 in the morning the answer is no it's not but I think what it does do is with this full-time Staffing it does allow the firefighters to schedule themselves because they need to go side by side if you will for um Duty crw scheduling in full-time and the reason for that is I went to the organization the department the firefighters and asked them what is the time commitment that you can give and currently right now they're all giving about 20 hours per month towards the organization roughly that's broken down to roughly about 10 calls per month and then we have training and maintenance with the addition of full-time staff and implementing a duty C program together we reduce costs overall we're not sending 12 people or you know on average right now my calls are about on average response from firefighters roughly 24 hours a day is about five f Fighters um that's what we typically get so to handle a medical that will work um you know Paul and Paul's officers are available that helps with the lift assists and those things where if uh we have a bigger person that needs to be lifted that's great I mean I know I gave the example we had the fire in Dayton River Road earlier in the year we had one officer on his calls were stacking up but we needed traffic control on Dayton River Road because we had to park our fire trucks in place so Paul and I communicate on a regular basis how can we try to serve the community collectively together by supporting their operations or them supporting our operations but the lack of predictability for paidon call Firefighters is the biggest thing and what was turned in um in the council packet I believe in June or whatever it was was dialogue from the firefighters saying that we need to move in this direction because we're not able to sustain the continued call increase of the city over time so we're continuing to see you know 70% it's lately it's been about 5050 still between medical and and fire type calls not fires but fire type calls so this is my vision to help the city continue to recruit firefighters to maintain the system that we have not a full-time model if you will but then also with our part-time firefighters give them the ability and predictability so that they can continue from a retention perspective because like I said more often than not if I lose them it's difficult to get them so we're behind the eightball all the time trying to train people um the other just ask a question so the way I've looked at this is we're going to for the number you gave us back in June or July whenever the whatever month it was that we met that number included two two more full-time firefighters it included the increase to pay the firefighters from approximately 17 an hour now to $30 an hour um it included them being on duty crew so they're they have to sign up for what uh they I think two shifts two shifts a month yep and then they have to respond to three non like volunteer shifts where they're free they can make it right so so so that that was the other piece and then it also gives them access to because they're no longer using the fire relief for their retirement gives them access to better retirement options for versus the pension correct so it does it does it's more than just hiring two office two firefighters it's also about correcting some things that the Fire Relief and when they voted on it they voted that this is where they want to go they'd rather make more money and then they would U be able to invest that themselves and that was something that they wanted so it's not just about just adding the cost is not just adding two firefighters the cost is kind of re figuring the whole way the fire department works from a a pay structure a benefit structure and we get two firefighters all for that cost that's if you lump it all in one lump correct but they're all separable correct but even if so let's just say we decided to get rid of the Fire Relief and then pay them more right we no longer get the Fire Relief money from the government because we can't apply to the Fire Relief yep so then the cost ends up being about the same I think you said right Zach uh I don't remember as the chief to run the numbers today because I wasn't sure exactly what the numbers are but they're pretty close yeah so I mean I try to look at numbers today and kind of look at things so for instance my request if you look at um salaries overall um the number that I had was if if everything was approved as requested um we would have $478,900 186 in salaries and benefits if you will but that's offset by the benefit of this is the relief Association no longer exists exists and then those funds which is 2% of the homeowners insurance within the community then gets return back to the city and offsets not only the part-time firefighters pension it also offsets the full-time firefighters so mine my assistant Chiefs and the two new firefighters um would offset that roughly we never know till September uh when those dollars are going to come in or what those dollars are but we anticipate like for this year that's about $80,000 and that's based upon this really odd formula based on Commercial properties and and whatnot but we're from a a part-time salaries if I stripped everything out and we just paid them $30 an hour based on um a part-time inspector um responding to calls probationary training and regular training along with all calls which would mean structur fire car accidents significant events if you will um we'd probably be around uh $260,300 but that doesn't help with that's a a $30 an hour but that doesn't help with might help with recruitment but it's not necessarily it might help with retention but the idea of is I really need to from a retention perspective and fundamentally a recruitment perspective as well is I need to respect ECT their time there's not a good predictability of when there is a mass amount of firefighters available in the city and it depends on what council and your constituents are looking for um yeah we're a huge insurance policy no one likes to pay their car insurance their homeowners insurance and whatnot but they're really glad they did when they did you know when something happens so the reality is is um I'm trying to look longterm I believe the plan that was presented will probably hold hold us over for some period of time um without making additional full-time requests next time next year or the year after but again that really depends upon the retention of the current firefighters I had and I left it up to the firefighters I told the firefighters that said you have this is your opportunity to voice your concerns to council through some of the emails I came through that I forwarded on on what they're exactly looking for and their ask is or their to me is that I can give you 20 hours a month that I'm giving currently we did go back to them and ask them if they would just do a Duty Crew only model um but that was going to increase their shifts probably to five or six shifts a month at 4 hours and that was not something that they wanted to do so that's where that was full-time hours um are off offsetting those so that we can maintain and slowly incrementally um move in the direction of adding full-time staff at a acceptable Pace that keeps track you know in sync with the budget so so have a couple questions one is so those hours um if you were to go to a Duty Crew those hours still have to be hit right I mean if you get the volunteers show up that you need um it's just it it just seems odd that um and non call any anything isn't kind of better planned or scheduled than than just whoever can show up it's always struck me as OD me and my dad was on the front of always struck me as odd that a call goes out and whoever can't show up shows up um when I work you know when when when normally when you're on call with companies you're on call right it always struggled me as H that we don't have a better system that tries to schedule that that's what the duty crew model is basically right it's trying to get Clos towards you can do that on a regular that's what I'm not understanding is why why the hours seems to me the hours would be the same it's just now they're randomized there's a randomized factor as to who's going to show up yeah I mean who's going to cover Monday through Friday or those kind of things right right right I mean what we're the the duty curu is I've gone through my career when I was at Plymouth Plymouth and rosille started the duty cure program and what they're seeing is that um there wasn't enough availability for personnel during certain hours of the day and that's the same thing that we have here 72% of our calls are between 7 in the morning and 10:00 at night MH of those 72% um a lot of it's during regular business hours for folks so when we looked at putting together a dudic model um we put we have myself and Kevin here during the day and then we augment that at starting at noon when our calls start to pick up more so between noon and 10 um with that third firefighter and then if you have that part-time inspector here that rounds out basically a four-person career at least right out the door very quickly um the the issue that we get into is like I'll use Brooklyn Park as example when I work there they went from a paid on call system like we are here and they switched and they went to they slowly incrementally went to it they started with I can't remember exactly certain hours of the day um I think it was overnights if I recall they did overnight coverage well when Kevin and I looked at the areas of need that was only 28% of our calls and to spend a bunch of money on overnights um we weren't getting the value back on what we spending So eventually it kind of giving as Brooklyn Park as an example they went to a 24-hour schedule um where it was all paid on call Firefighters that were filling 24 hours a day 365 days a year the problem with that now is is that full-time fire departments to include Brooklyn Park and many others they're stealing from other departments just from a pure pay standard there isn't enough people that are interested in law enforcement EMS or public or fire departments so we end up stealing from each other and not being able to um build that need so that 24-hour schedule I would never be able to do that today like they did 10 years ago because there isn't that interest within the field to do that anymore you used to have 6,000 people as applicants down at the um Minneapolis Armory for a few positions today St Paul in Minneapolis have maybe 200 firefighters or 200 applicants for many jobs and they still can't fill up that way so we're running into this issue of Staffing and it's not obviously just with Public Safety but that's the biggest thing so I can't get the people to move towards like a full scheduled 24hour or 12-h hour we're really trying to take hence my request overall is 150,000 um the rest of the the money I know councilman SL asked so how are you getting two full-time staff for 150 at the end of the day I'm taking the money that I've already been appropriated within the budget and moving it around and taking better use of it so that we're able to spread those Dollars around and then also utilize our um money from the 2% where the relief would go away and fund pensions that we weren't able to do before and then also provide a better pension for the firefighters as a whole so it's really hitting on the the two biggest things is that recruitment on a firefighter once they get them and then a retention making sure they have predictability within their life which then keeps them here mhm so what I'm hearing from you is that these are separable but they have impacts on the components it'd be nice to see that cuz what I'm seeing here is two full-time people are 142 Grand and then I do see that you have a reduction in in um in the part-time salary because of what they're doing and that that's what gets it down to 142 correct are there other I mean it'd be nice to see those other you know how the pension Works into this because I don't I'm not seeing it right I can give you a and this might not be in front of you mayor um so for instance uh um the we would put the firefighters into What's called the police and fire pension so the same pension that myself and chief ingar in um the city contributes 17.7% to that as a budget item that Zach has to budget for that 17.7% would be recaptured from no longer having a relief Association so those funds that would typically go to the relief Association to fund their retirement currently at $3,250 per year service just as a review or recap they're not fully vested until 20 years so they're getting roughly about $64,000 after 20 years in this system at 17.7 let's just use assume that they have a $10,000 annual income from the fire department at five years they're vested at 100 or excuse me 50% they're 100% vested at 10 years so we've cut that 20 years down to 10 more realistic and then what it does offer um is that it actually reduces and Zach can fill in this a little bit but it does reduce some of the costs associated with Social Security I Believe by 1% because Social Security Plus if we put them into a pair of coordinated is that 7 and a half% contribution so they don't pay so police and fire don't pay social security they don't pay 6 6.2% to Social Security they just pay the 1.45% to Medicare that's it so we are making a little bit of a cost savings there so when I look at just and this doesn't include my pension or my assistant Chief's pension we have about $65,900 money um for all firefighter pensions if you will so really we're covering them um with mining Kevin and the contri we're almost covering them at 100% so there wouldn't be that need to so to speak budget for them um out of taxpayer dollars that's coming back from uh for Relief Association pension so that's a little bit of a just to try to show there a little bit is that a lot of those miscellaneous savings incorporated into this all of those are Incorporated in that number into that 63,000 um yeah so the 63,000 is yeah the Social Security difference and then it's also the time on the salaries that are being saved on part-time salaries okay cuz at part-time have to pay the 6.2% cuz they're not part of the police fire PIR off program okay the other area where I really have some trouble with it is we're at staff said 18% and I know I said 10% I would squeak to 12 if I had to probably however I want some of that ladder that we are going to need to pay for in in four years I want that included in there somehow so we don't have to bond for the whole thing right I I want I want City Hall to manage their money like the average American has to when they want to buy something I think the last engine we heard the and the problem that I have is the pay 16% in tax capacity money and we want 2% more half the cost of give government 10 cents and they want 12 and a half and I just don't so Scott I get a question for you if I when are we talking about the budget again uh next meeting next meeting be three weeks if I to come to you next meeting with a plan that would include not raising the current tax rate even possibly lowering the tax rate and saving money for the fire truck and a plan for the next two to 3 years that looks like to make sure we have enough money for the fire truck would you be on board with a plan like that yeah I I'll listen to it that's not what I asked would you be in favor I'm not going to say see why I I get that but like you know I just want to make sure that we're on the same P that's what you're looking for right that's what I'm looking for okay if you can keep it around 12 133% well I'm I'm looking at the tax rate so either keeping the tax rate the same or even possibly thex little bit that doesn't mean anything because the county if the county raises their rate 20% everybody pays more taxes so you said the average home went up what 1% last year the average home went up 1% last year so what if I what if I found a way to do it where we reduced it for the 2% 2% increase h% is the new new grow that correct yep yeah so all right now somebody else has got 15 minutes no we're we're burning we yeah this idea is to have discussion here so we can have some direction for what staff needs to provide you the idea is to have it at the next meeting to have a general consensus of where we're at with the budget we'll have a work session before the next council meeting so we can hammer out all the other discussions so that way we can be done with the budget for September doesn't mean we're done totally just done for September preliminary yep and then we can move on for other things because we have the master plan and other things that are going on too that we got to try to squeeze in somewhere so MH and nothing's going to happen there for 30 40 years it's a different issue every time you talk to me it's a different Year all right moving on so I'm done for today we'll come with more next time okay anything else from anybody else on any of the other budget items we'll come with more next time if you have some please send me an email send me a text message give me a call um but it will be on the next meeting as well on August 10th okay or 12 12th 12 yes 12 12 Le is 13th correct okay uh okay item H special event permit um now I don't know where we want to go with this but um I know uh Dave had some concern he he wanted to see if we could take us out but um and I have a feeling we're we're so this a public is this a public hearing uh so we need to have the public hearing tonight you're right um and then we you can elect to table it or whatever you like after that public hearing sorry car does he need to open it or no nope he sorry just you're good yep uh good evening mayor members of council um this has been kind of a collaborative effort uh between myself and Paul and every All City staff at the end of the day um I just took the opportunity because it has a pretty significant impact on the fire code um often um when we have uh large events uh within the community um the reality is is that um we looked at the ordinance that was there this has been a project that Zach um and I and others have been working on since since I've been here um the idea is is to really articulate through our city ordinance um what we're expecting of um the public that may come in and apply um this breaks it down into two special event one being a retail event if there's something going on at a retail area I know we don't have a ton of retail at the moment but potentially as we continue to grow some of the smaller areas um that will be um of great help um the one example I can give you currently that um with Amy's help became aware of of course we have operation zero coming up here on August 10th um I did put in the ordinance that the request or the requirement would be for any event centers um that have an iup or a cup um there wouldn't be a cost to them but we would like to know what events they may be having the reason for that is for instance operation zero I believe is August 10th my understanding um through Amy's help and an application for a liquor application permit um Fisher Farms is doing something the same evening so two large facilities right across from each other um we would not have a good understanding for these Public Safety or any services that are needed within the city to understand kind of what's going on um if something tornado came through active shootter whatever the case may be so it's really just a request so that we have a better understanding understanding from those um areas that already have been given an event uh designation with an IEP or a c um it does break it down a lot more um in fine terms of what we're looking for when they make that application um it does take some of the things that we had from the previous permit and bring it into this um full disclosure um thanks to the city of Rogers we looked at theirs um this a lot of it is the city of Rogers um ordinance but it hit on a lot of things that the requirements that I know Paul and I were looking at just to better understand kind of what people might be doing within the community so it's kind of where we're at I'm happy to to answer you know specific questions as it relates to that um i' got a couple hey I just want to make sure the one clarifying point on the first page of that ordinance I believe listed as a public event is that this is only related to public events not private events so if this is a invite only type event this is not apply to that at all so birthday parties or graduation parties or if a business is having a um Employee Appreciation thing or something this does not apply to those things if it's an invite only and the public is not involved it is not a special event permit if it's only if it's open to the public that is would then be required to pull a um um special event permit so someone is using their Farm yep to have a wedding but there it's not there because we had this problem I think up on South Diamond wasn't it yes would this then be this cover that or not no this would then not cover that CU it would be under unless money's Exchange in hands for use of the property then it becomes a business correct correct yeah then it would require yeah that would be a I want to make sure this that one might be the difficult one cuz I think it's for private events it's made for yeah if they had only we to your point Cil TR we can't we can't have a private citizen renting their land to a single event say a wedding or or Mitzvah or a graduation or whatever because that seemed to be what was happening Y and that's where causing the traffic issues on Sal time um but if they want to do that they still could they just have to come in and apply correct they they have to apply um you know just like anyone else would M the idea comes in here the fire code comes in and you'll see that it says 50 people often in here um y 50 is the number and that's based on fire code and requirements that I'm required to enforce within that erection of a tent we have to go and take a look at that the numbers coming in there for 50 and so forth um so if you're having a birthday party at your home and you're having a 100 people over there's no impact on that because that's a private event you know Graco had an event recently or is kind an a recent uh an employee event again not a public event we just want to know is there a need for you know something happens a storm comes through again or whatever really to give all City staff Marty included you know what resources might be required from City staff in order to help mitigate whatever that event happens to be so my other question is around you me mentioned the parcels that have already have events center permit so um I know the recent example that you said it would have been nice to know we might not have we might might not have approved it who knows right um is and we're not going to charge a fee for people that already have that permit correct that for their property correct yeah they've been given that designation a lot of that information you're asking for is around like what if something happens right they already have those the active shooter there's an emergency they already have those plans in place as part of their Event Center permit so can we have a shorter version that they would fill out if they already have an event that are permit and it's just maybe it's like three questions I whatever it is like something much shorter that cuz you don't need all that same information and then otherwise they're just putting CI iup that's just a waste of their time and a waste of our time what we really want to know is what day is it going to happen what's it going to be and how many people expecting so that way we aren't like you said booking things super close together that then could cause issues for traffic or whatever else we're trying to keep the City operating correct correct yeah that that's the biggest thing and even let's to say like is is you know hopefully in the near future Fisher Farms is able to event you know wreck their Event Center as they um desire we're not interested interested in if they have a a wedding in their a lot of this really more more public event and then outside events where we might have to you know that's probably the biggest thing is those outside events where we have a lot more factors that come into play those are my questions thank you mayor did uh councilman Fant have questions or he was he did um but he didn't Rel am to me he just wanted us to he just he he wanted to be involved in the discussion understood um and I'm I'm a little bit confused by that previous discussion so I didn't see in here where if somebody rented out their property now I didn't go through this I mean I I drifted through this thing but it's is in legal EAS a little bit yeah yeah I went through it line by line kind of go through line by line on all this stuff too so yeah you can thank city of Rogers for that well well they've got a lot more commercial and and and a lot of more build out we don't have to follow what they so if somebody rents their property to a say birthday part party um you're saying that they would have to get one of these the renter or the I would assume the property owner yeah the property owner would need to I didn't see that in here make that request um I didn't either yeah we didn't really cover well that if you will it was more of a public perspective I guess um I don't know how many people are renting their property I guess to have outside of the one instance that we had last year and and I thought the problem with that was they I don't know at what point we require I just hate saying this what we required to to let them do that um but I mean we we do have have a business license requirement at some level M and if you're renting your property out business it should fall into something um instead of this so that that was my my question or I don't know I I just some of this stuff I think we're just trying to avoid public nuisances is the main thing that we're looking at trying to do um we can use the example that we had recently with the birthday party that happened on Diamond Lake where it was a larger birthday party they didn't apply for anything they said they weren't going to have that many people they ended up having a band and all kinds of people we ended up with calls about noise ordinances and and issues we had to send out then a police officer that we only have maybe one of to then attend to the thing to say hey you have a problem there's an issue then we left it got more calls then we had to go back and shut the they would have been covered us they yep correct so that this doesn't f correct it just seem seems like we're I think we have to we have to add that language in there somehow into that ordinance if we wanted to do that related to hosting a party or your point that's more a separate issue of running a business yeah it seems like it's a different issue it probably is yeah and I I really have a hard time with an activity center needing even if it's to fill out a A reduced version it just it strikes me bureaucratic I I don't disagree but look at what happened because we didn't know right that's my piece of it and I don't I mean and what happened what happened well we've got just the two events two events that we need to be prepared to be protect against everything in the city no but just a little necessarily protecting against communication having the knowledge of so that in a natural disaster or something happening you know that there's a lot of people in that area it's not saying no you can't have your event that night because so there's one across the street that she being notified so we're going to have a different application then for them I we have a much simpler even email notification like hey public event these dates and that'll be for activity centers event C because I don't want someone what's the point of getting the Event Center done if then you have to do this every single time so and that's why I was like well we're not going to charge them a fee cuz that's just they already went through all the work my thing is just let us know because I think there is a larger public safety issue like said if something does happen I just think the odds of an issue popping up rather than putting this the burden on those activities yeah and if you don't like that language you can strike the language the I yeah I feel like there' be a lot that we get struck out of this getting permission the the general aspect it's not a permission though really so in a scenario those scenario for Dean patch are we going to have them get 60 permits or are they going to get a permit from September 1st till nov is that different for the iup cup kind of conditions correct yeah I think we I think we need to adjust language in the ordinance to related to what is on the iupp and CP and what we're requesting for them again it's not necessarily that we need to monitor like the other special events that we're looking at we are looking to say okay you're going to sell pumpkins for your example Scott from September 1st to October 31st wonderful thank you very much that's all we need to know that's it um I don't think we're look I mean again we can probably guess that but well if that's if it's as simple as that it certainly doesn't have to be a couple of pages long the special event ordinance has I think there's some things in there that are which is why it's so long is because there's lots of caveats to it which is why it's not just straightforward yeah the cup I up ones should be very straightforward cuz we're expecting them to have events business function yes yes yeah um we just want to know okay when do you operate okay that's great now you know cuz we're expecting in an egg property running an event center we don't know when they're running those events and that's say we want to monitor because we don't really don't care but just to notify us like hey it's not going to be used for egg today it's going to be used for a th000 Vehicles wonderful watching a movie in the field that's great are we ready for public in go ahead all right I'll open the public hearing for ordinance 20241 does anybody want to lead the pack [Laughter] and um Amanda fisher fisher farms uh 169 North am Lake Road I uh up until a few hours ago I was going to go a lot more hardcore on my little speech tonight uh thank you Zach for touching base and reiterating that this was not against iups and cups um overall I I understand the the the desire for this um however it needs a lot of work before you make it an a full-on ordinance uh there's a lot of language I was reading through it that there's so many ifs ends or buts and our city is not Rogers or Brooklyn Center or Minneapolis we're not there yet to be able to have a lot of this language in there um the uh the the biggest thing that brought a lot of us here tonight is the fact that on that first page includes designated event centers and iup or cup does not sayate what you just verbally discuss in the aspect of not requiring us to pay um I think that also the definitions of what people have to pay to do this need to be defined better um because some cities are anywhere from a $200 fee to $1,000 or $1,500 and for Dayton residents to have to pay that kind of cost seems a little uh exuberant um so kind of that all being said it needs to get defined better before it gets pushed through uh and make sure that it's either the iup and cup process or this it can't be both not for for fee purposes right because I know I myself have paid thousands and thousands of dollars to get through my iup and cup process to now have to be told I going to have to pay more so um yeah I think that was my main part the one thing if I may just for just to make sure that you're aware there are going to be additional fees for you as it relates to the fire Cod so I'm going to have to come out and say I think you're wreting a tent this weekend correct or one in a couple weeks or no uh no okay so attented events sure if you're not have any attented events is it's not a big deal but there's a tent requirement per the fire code and we have a tent fee to inspect that and that can be once or it could be multiple times depending upon um that that's just the state fire code requirement so there could be that um you know with the was that written into the iup ordinance we have to just in your in your IEP yes it is because it states that you must follow all the fire code okay so that's that's kind of that lumps it in at least from my perspective the fire code so that's where a lot of this stuff comes from um I know had opportunity to go out to the Deans and talk about things that need to be addressed there as it relates to the fire TR so a lot of it does come back to the fire code that and that's at the when we implement the fire code it's the minimum fire code it's it's not the maximum not doing anything more than what the state requires me to enforce just to be clear on that as well so right so Chief I'm not throwing up a building and and expecting to just do stuff I'm following all my permitted requirements so been running permit required businesses for 15 years I'm not afraid of a permit so so if somebody goes through and applies for a permit and they put up a a So when you say tent are you just talking about it rof yeah so I mean it has to be fire retardant and it depends on the size um off the top of my head I think it's like 400 square ft in that nature we'd have to come out and inspect it um it could be if they keep it up it could be a onetime inspection if it's up and down numerous times and what are we charging for that inspection um I believe that inspection fee in the fee schedule I think is think it's $75 $75 I think yes one person our kind of thing I have a very sour taste in my that that means a 40 by 601 for a concert would have to be inspected correct yeah sounds like something all we're trying to do mayor and council is there's a cost for us to go out and do this so don't go out well I guess my question yeah when it comes to the tent what are we inspecting for just out of curiosity it's a fire requ so that if it if they have a lot of times some places will have sides on it so then it can considered an enclosed building then if they heat it or that makes sense stuff um to some extent that makes sense I I was talking about just say tent yeah like a just a canopy or yeah we're still required to do that cuz um I guess the best way to describe it is common sense is and all that common and sometimes people starts fires under those type of things and then we have bigger issues and but that yeah that's the business that Paul and I are in sometimes okay thank you anybody else y y uh actually do public just say your name and address your name and address so Jack Burns I'm um a citizen of course I own uh property in dating that will eventually have and U oh can you go in front of the mic there check oh yeah just pull the mic in front of you yep there you go that's heavy can you hear me now yep okay I'm also and you know a commissioner on The Economic Development Authority I would say you know and I came here because uh I heard about it and I read the first page and the iup and cup were included and you know all the things so after the discussion Lots changed but I I do think it something like this particularly as it relates to businesses that have a cup or iup should look at you know what really is needed uh because they're already formed as a business to do exactly these things and so to put additional requirements on is burdensome maybe necessary but burdensome and how do you make that you know that's our kind of our mission at the Eda right is to look at it from a business friendly perspective with the same backdrop as you know we got to look at the community and the safety and all these other things but you know you don't want to make it so hard to do business and dating that nobody wants to come here so that would be my comment and I think you're headed down that path that sounds like from the comments but just to look at it from that perspective and you know maybe it's just the name itself maybe it's not a special event permit maybe it's a party permit or something else which is where it seems to be more the focus of the public component it's you know what's the difference between private and public because I would see that you know probably all weddings that a business would have would be private I think but I can see where someone say no they're public you know so and if you're doing them every weekend or twice a weekend or whatever ever that could be quite a requirement so think about that that's all I have to say thank you thank you thanks sure anybody else come on okay anybody online um if you wanted to speak in the public forum on this topic use the raise your hand function not see I'll close the public hearing then sure we want to huh do we have to oh yeah I don't you do not have to close the public hearing maybe this would be an opportunity right so we just have to make sure if you do not table it so we can close the public hearing at the next meeting if you want to do that okay I have a question could we close the public hearing and still just table it for next week you could also do that okay I just for the next meeting not next week but well yeah sorry yeah you know yeah next week yeah would there be reason to keep public um open that's up to you guys I don't just I don't know what the Optics of that would look like if we kept it open or if we kept it Clos I was wondering if it Mak sense to six a piece capture I guess usually commission tenes anyways and then they hand over to us afterward try I'm going to make a motion to table this baby all right well are we okay with closing the public hearing then yeah mean I'm going to take feedback from anybody that's willing to give it to me so I mean right all close the public with here and you have a table it just around the same page is that so David can we in yeah that and I want to read through every line in this thing I doubt didn't do that yeah I would definitely like to go over it again and I I I don't know if if we want to clean it up before the next meeting that was going to be my suggestion is um I don't know what the right motion is and I'm going to suggest something if it's wrong let me know maybe we motion that this gets cleaned up send our comments to him and he can clean it up and then we re re that be okay that' be okay I just don't want to be in the same spot with the me time clean it up and then we can see what it looks like and hopefully clean up a lot of concerns people have that way before it even gets to it and then we can always ask for feedback again next week if you want to so if each of us will clean send our cleanup to Zach or suggest edits or suggested edits suggested edits yeah if you guys have some suggestions please send them to Zach and then we'll we can coordinate are you making that motion yeah I'll second it okay so there it is okay okay uh so uh all those in favor of tabling say hi hi Bo say no motion carries to table it and that's that it'll be on August 12th just make sure work that is a Monday what I yeah thanks you okay item I all right it's okay you can leave if you don't want to say you don't have to you're welcome to if you don't have item I uh mayor members of the council we had that Park commission that was open it remained open um looking for applicants or reapplicants in that time frame the same day within hours I actually received a new application and a reapplication so Doug in fact did reapply and then we also had interest in um with a new applicant as well so now uh you do have a choice between the two I just need to know who you would like to appoint the park commission to fill the opening M start I think her name is ka ka ka that's what I'm going go with yep don't know that's up who wants to go first it's all you SC heads or tails it's all you SC I I'm going to make a comment here and don't anybody take two personal but I think we've all learned that what you saying this is high I want some new blood here I this park commission just seems to just everything is decided in this building and that's what happens Park commission doesn't Wai I want new blood so so I'll make a motion then on that so appoint Ka to uh Parts commission then okay do you yeah we got a motion oh second yeah I'll second okay but more discussion we got more disc a motion we can keep talking if you want no I'm done I put my point right out there yeah um that was for k y any more discussion I just want to thank Doug for quarter of a century on the uh Parks Commission as the Watershed you still yeah he's also liaison then for the city for Watershed as well he still will be that he will be that that does not change um and that gets decided at the first meeting every year so it could be him again next year yep I just say he wants it yeah just want to say thanks to him for that it's been a long time while I was on Parks is that your start thatas that was that was my start yeah I really appreciate Doug's input and his Insight especially when I ran for Council and everything back in 2020 it was a big help and a big you know it's kind of helped me understand the layout of of their mission and all that stuff so I appreciate all his hard work but um I like the Optics of Ka too coming in with a lot of background as well so I think she'll she'll emulate a lot of the things that Doug found valuable too so all right any more discussion a motion in a second to point K all those in favor say I hi hi all those say no motion carries 4 to zero and if there are no objections we will be Jour jour e