for I will call the order the regular meeting of the park commission City of Dayton uh on June 24th first order of business is the plge Allegiance Pledge aliance to the FL of the United States of America and to theu for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all the uh agenda is before you I would entertain a motion to approve the agenda as written so moved second second all in favor I opposed motion carries next on the agenda is um the consent agenda the approval of the par commission meeting for May 7 tohar a motion to adjer on no to approve okay I'll make that motion thank you second I'll second thank you all in favor I hi hi motion is approved open Forum anyone wishing to address the commission can do so nothing online with no one here I would close the uh open forum and move on to the council update uh good evening Commissioners uh I'm sitting in for uh Matt tro um last council meeting um started off with the budget work session um uh Zack had stated that the the 2024 tax rate is at [Music] 35.643953 overall I'm trying to look at the notes here but uh an increase but as as always we're going to it's it's budget season kick off so we're going to hear from all the Departments just kind of what their what their asks are for up uh the upcoming year um discussion points that kind of that led on to end of the meeting was there's a discussion on the west territorial infrastructure um of of extending utilities down by adessa if you know where adessa is on territorial between Brockton and Dayton Parkway there's a chunk there there's some development that is going in there and they kind of had a discussion about um the infrastructure and um extending that that stuff and uh just kind of the means of what would we use like Tiff state aid um developer contribution special assessments um there's no finite details yet on what that looks like they just wanted to bring it uh before us just as a discussion piece does it make sense kind of thing for stuff that's going on down there another discussion point was the the parkway intersections um signal improvements that are going to be needed at um the Parkway and Territorial and then also on the south side of 94 there's uh some development that's going on there that's going to need some intersection um um control so they talked about lights flights versus roundabouts lights and roundabouts a discussion just kind on the whole thing um the direction that uh we gave um staff was to move was to entertain moving forward with just the lights on that one um moving forward the we talked more about the dat Parkway alignment um kind of rehashed some you know uh Mr quisberg had brought in um his his uh background on it and kind of gave us a little update on like how we landed on the X and the H alignments if you've been paying attention on those discussions but uh not a whole lot of Direction was given just we just recognized that we have two directions to proceed and we just kind of had to pick which one and which alignment future state so and then uh action items that came up was uh the land forfeiture for uh purchase for the Eda which was ultimately ended up tabling because we need to understand um the functions of the Eda better and what their uh what their um bylaws are going to start stating there's some discrepancies there and then um um talking with police chief Anga about uh retention incentives for the police department um looks like there's uh same thing kind of like we're experiencing on the fire side there's there's a lot of openings but not a lot of people that want to fill them but we we want to definitely keep the good and or keep the the police officers we have but also create a program that kind of incentivizes bringing some people into so we're not trying to fight against you know our neighbors and all that stuff so it's uh something that uh I guess he's he's put together where we're all in agreeing with it so it's uh I mean I want to I want to keep good talent and dating so it's something that we have to kind of keep entertaining because I it's it's something that not even just the public Workforce is encountering but even the the private infrastructure is also encing the same thing so that was pretty much it there was a Clos session um afterwards but uh I was remote so I was a part of it so I don't have a whole lot of details on that I don't think I can talk about it yet so but that's it very good thank you any questions we'll move on to our regular meeting first on the agenda is the tree City USA program um this is uh effort by John can you son um he sent in an email I just put in the STA report I'll hand it over to John to go through what this program is and how it will fit with the city cool yes thank you so um all admit I'm not an expert in the program it's something I've seen around other cities like I think Anoka I'm pretty sure Maple Grove um have this designation when you drive into town it'll say underneath Tree City since such and such year or for however many years or rather um so I did a little bit of digging into it and I found this kind of one or two page overview of the requirements of recognition and then I'm not exactly sure if we already meet them or what kind of a stretch it might be as a city to meet them but um just going through them on what is this page three standard one would be forming a tree board or Department I know we have a a certified inspector so I think that's probably a step in the right direction I don't know if this commission would be also considered some kind of a board you know we're not called the tree board but we certainly discussed them um a tree care ordinance I I've seen things in our city codes and ordinances relating to like you can't destroy all the trees when you're doing construction but I don't know if again what their exact requirements on that would be um maintaining a forestry program with an annual budget of at least $2 per capita I'm sure Marty spends at least $2 per capita on something that you could say is for trees that's probably not a problem you know without even changing anything we just a lot of our stuff works on trees um and then proclaiming and observing Arbor Day that seems like a pretty straightforward one so um I don't exactly know what the next steps would be except for I thought i' bring it here and discuss it um probably would would need some help from the city Side on you know what it would it take to form a tree border department or do we already meet those requirements and and same with that tree care ordinance again I I did some digging through the the online codes and stuff but I'm certainly not a legislative expert there um but I thought it'd be something probably worth pursuing um assuming it's doesn't have much of a cost Associated I don't think it would and I do know that we do have some ordinances in place for tree removals when it uh developer comes in um I think it's for every tree remove every inch you have to replace it with two Ines um across the board um and there are a certain amount of tree requirements for each lot I think you need to have eight in eight caliper inches of trees on each lot so we we are moving in that direction somewhat and there are um uh some Greenway corridors um like in I own Gardens which is you know basically protecting that those trees there and and the good quality trees that we need do you want we we do not have a diseased tree or it so many cities that do have the tree USA designation do um so the example would be is if I have a dead tree in my yard um the city would have the ability of requiring me to to remove that or the city would do it and assess the cost to to me for property taxes yeah um that that's a big step sure um you know so just thinking of like the emerald ashor as an example of you know we didn't have too many I don't remember what year it was kind of came into Dayton I want to say like the late 20 2018 2019 or so but that would be a significant change for the city it would also be a significant cost to uh property owners that have disease trees but it also protects owners that uh have healthy trees so far sure yeah if that's a specific requirement of it that would absolutely be more of something to discuss I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea to discuss but I'm not trying to go that far if we don't have to necessarily just to get this accreditation sort of um that's a great call out though who would be the one to make that distinction like down that Emerald dashboard or or the dead tree thing or the arbor City arborus so is that we're currently training a guide I inspect that was going to be my followup question is do we have one he on Wednesday he takes his exam so hopefully after Wednesday we will have one so in that Essence then you have somebody with the ability in the city to make that call then that's kind of the push behind it we have been looking at Emerald ASP and you know since we've been getting all this tree removal equipment stuff is up what we can do as a City without that equipment we couldn't do any of this at all um so we have talked about you know um in just within the department about how we're going to manage this ml Dash Bora thing and if there are you know trees that we can remove from people's property um because it's in the interest of the city um then maybe we would do that if it's close to the RightWay in the front but you know I'm not going to send my guys into the back as somebody's property to pull down a bunch of trees and tree goes down on the boat and uh then we got all kinds of problems so I think we have to think about how that goes together but I'm certainly open to that idea does it change if like there's if they property lying AB buts up to like a the the city park or something like that kind of changes the Dynamics but like property owner to property owner it's kind of you know let your insurance kind of yeah do get out at that point kind of thing um I try not to be involved with too much of that us yeah but they like you let them take care of that I think a lot of the homeowners I've been dealing with that homeowner who's had exactly that situation where a tree came down his was on his property it came down on his neighbor's property and stuff so yeah we did we did go out and look at trees and give a recommendation to the homeowner saying you you need to remove that one as soon as possible or you if that one comes down it's not going to come down on your house but you know you need to you know pay you know have somebody come out and remove it for you okay currently everyone's just on their own is that just kind of uh yeah it's by choice if they were to remove it okay John on your research on this do you see any because there's essentially no cost I think we can probably based on what we already have going here right I'm not aware of a direct cost to apply for it it would just be implementation costs on the city Side to have a program you know pay the arborist things we might be doing already ideally we're most all of them that's kind of what I was was hoping for I feel like we've already kind of are close on a lot of it so is there really do you see any negatives or does anyone see any negatives to this I'm assuming that's why other cities surrounding us are doing it there's just not a lot of had it for like 40 years or something things that have associated with your city I think it's a I think it's a good idea as long as we have ordinances and a goal as to what to plant I for example 169 was closed the other day so I moved over to Boon and went down Boon from Brooklyn Park to St Louis Park and I'd say I saw Boulevard trees or trees on the side of the road I saw at least 100 dead trees um now I don't know we don't have an ordinance I believe they were all asteres um but boy I tell you it was devastating to see um I wouldn't mind seeing an an ordinance or at least a program um where we can talk about the trees recommend species that kind of thing I think it really deserves an arborous there is um a recommended tree list on on the city ordinances as well that we currently do have in place so when developers come in we give them that list of trees that they can choose from um it's not hard and fast but it it it specifically you know highlights the trees that we don't want them to put in so is that into public right of way or is that when they're putting trees on their lots that they're that's within development so yes it's within uh within uh the public areas all the all the Lots cuz I'm just reading like some of the standards so I like as you guys are discussing it sounds like that would be something that would be establish a tree care ordinance like we kind of it sounds like we kind of have you know the meat to that that standard right away or right off the bat so maybe there's just some tweaking but like um standard one form a tree board or Department doesn't say like who how many or what but by forming a tree Bard Department you know cities can create more organized and effective urban forestry plans well what's an urban forestry plan mhm yeah I've done a little bit of digging into this but I'm not 100% up to where we should be but I think urban forestry is more my John knows a bit more about this than I do but it's it's a a program for the entire city from what I understand yeah just maintaining a diverse canopy that's going to be future proof um and and I read the standard as delegating the responsibility well we've we've done that effectively the parks department manages those trees or Public Works rather so right right I don't think they're saying you have to have a you know a 2040 plan for your trees but by doing this this is why it's valuable we can we can form I mean if probably got partial tree inventories I think you've mentioned already so yeah we already have recommended trees might just be putting all these things in the format that that says oh yeah look at you're doing the right things I'm just kind of thinking like you know would it identify like boulevards or you know the strip between the uh sidewalk and the curb things of that nature because I'm pretty sure there's areas where you just don't want trees either like and uh and we we tried to move things of that nature or something or maybe you do I don't know we're moving away from put well we discourage uh putting trees in the boulevards uh basically because they either rip out the curb or the sidewalk behind them so there you won't find too many places in town other than the old village where there's a lot of those trees and they're doing exactly that and there's a number of emerald ash trees down there that are going to be going anyway um so there are certain things that we're looking at um I've lost my train of thought now um it was just more or less around you know I was asking like the urban like do we what's the plan what what can in the plan you know obviously like there's places we do want them then there's obviously places we don't like clearing up like no we don't want Boulevard trees cuz they rip up stuff like I get it now like but like I think it's I I I like the idea of it I don't see it being too con too convoluted to implement but I think it to John's Point like NOA has it I actually drove through I think it was Yatesville Georgia and I saw like a tree care uh Tree City USA sign underneath this as soon as I was like hey I saw that sign somewhere I was I know I was down south I saw it so no it's like and it was an older community too it was you know I think there's a couple of other points here I think there's you know it's having an ordinance that is enforceable as well and so you know that y that's going to you know we've got limited resources for enforcement but if we make it reasonable right so how we structure that ordinance and then the other thing with any of these projects like I think there's a huge educational element to it as well M so we would have to figure out how that goes so when they plant their trees they know how to look after those trees and what to expect in the coming years and that kind of thing yep Marty what is the current ordinance for number of trees that have to be on each lot uh it's eight inches of trees um two uh in the front yard and they could be uh in the front yard it it depends on the front yard space if there cold set where you got limited space and you know we put in an ornamental tree or we had an extra tree at the back so we can be a little bit flexible on it um so it's any yeah generally three to four trees on a lot total two in the front two in the back yeah it can be that s it you know the minimum requirement is 8 in okay and then when one goes down or something happens then the expectation from the city is that a new one is plant like let's say someone had four trees and lost all four in a storm say it's a new build or whatever and they all get ripped out right away is the expectation from the city or the ordinance from the city that you go back to four only within that first year first two years yeah first two years so once you're in at year three or year four if you lose them or cut them down or anything you can that's at that point that's just the home this is this that ordinance is particularly aimed at the Builder it's a requirement of them getting that escrow back that they have this 8 in of trees got it once they get that back the homeowner can do whatever they like on their private property I've got no say over that but this you know the ordinance is this and we've had it in the past where people I do my inspection you go back next day and to the trees gone that's why I was wondering if youve dealt with that yeah yeah yeah and there's nothing that you I can't enforce anything there this the only control that we have is we're holding escro money against the Builder and they're putting in what we want to see there the homeowner can do whatever they like in their property at the end of the day well to be clear my my understanding or at least my feelings on this is there's if we were going to be enforcing anything it would be this tree is dangerous it is dead it's going to become more dangerous over a park over a right of way let's get it taken care of if you can't afford it maybe you get assessed over 10 years or whatever um if we could even get a tree coordinance that satisfies these without having to go that far because we maybe don't have the resources or the interest in putting that on a residence I think that would maybe even be ideal but yeah we can do something along those lines for sure I mean maybe we just have a chainsaw that we take around and drop off in their front we're not looking I mean and then even like when you look at some of the neighborhoods and stuff and some of the the common land there's just a lot of questions like you know the common land like what is for example like we have an issue in our neighborhood where we've got a lot of very small trees that look to be very much like seedlings as you go around the pond back there and they're just getting bigger and bigger and we have some thought is that they're invasive species and they're going to destroy the shoreline others are said hey let it be I like the protection so in those types of situation I just wonder how the city handles that or what that looks like cuz it gets kind of dicey especially when you have like in our neighborhood literally people have land that's in the water but actually their land sure so and so it's kind of it's so it just wonder where the city like how that and then if we're to do this John like what that looks like are we out enforcing that are we policing that cuz this sounds nice but like if we have to go out and you know whether it's also or a new board that or a specific committee that's for Tree City like are they spending all their time going out and like I just wonder if it's going too far in the weeds like are we better off TR yeah we just your own SE so so going forward with what you're talking about around the storm ponds there's three things there um there's some uh storm ponds that are platted through and like I say and it's a homeowner's property so it's their responsibility generally to take take care of that that um land um some of them are maintained by the HOAs so they'll take care of that and that includes the tree care and if trees come down in their land then they have to replace those and then the third part of it is the city has some of these ponds that they need to maintain um but we're more interested in the maintenance aspect of of the pond uh not the maintenance the operational aspect of those ponds so if it's interfering with the operation of the pond then we'll go and take take those out um where we come into a lot of problems with this stuff um we've gone around um early in the year to to go and do a mow around the outside not all the way down to the water's edge but um around the perimeter and people come out they get all in arms that you know you're killing the Dead the birds and the turtles and the nesting birds and all this stuff so um it's kind of difficult but we do we are trying to implement a 5-year plan and it's part of our ms4 status that you have to inspect the ponds once every four years so we basically dividing the city into four areas and then we will look at the um operation of the pond and the maintenance aspect so um we do have a little bit of flexibility in there but there's you know it's a combination of things if we have to go in there and take out some of the the volunteer trees The Willows and that stuff um because it's inter very with operations or whatever then we were going and take that but it's going to be a communication thing with residents and stuff as well and that would be totally separate from what tree City's doing correct I would say it should be totally different yeah perfect so what can we do with [Music] this um I mean I I could do some more digging and communicate with the organization say this is what we have does this meet requirements I just didn't want to you know go start freelancing on my own um without people agreeing that it's a good idea and worth at least looking into um you know what what it would take to make the leap I think it's a great idea I am just concerned about a arborist and when do we bring an arborist on board well sounds like on Wednesday we will have an arborist if he passes his test so so that's solved and the $2 per cap I think is solved and the tree border Department could be addition to us or it could be something that's done by the Parks Commission that's I we already have some general I mean in my opinion it looks like we could hammer out all four standards pretty quickly in my opinion that's the way I read it I just don't see a lot of negative about it I'd agree to that I also don't think John's going to throw a bad idea at us that's person thank you so yeah if if we agree on that I can shoot I'm sure there's an email somewhere on their website and I'll introduce myself and we'll go from there I'll bring an update to the next meeting yeah perect good thanks thank you thanks for the effort there very cool next on the agenda is Veterans Park okay again this is something that came from um a member of the commission um David uh sent me an email with some ideas and stuff on there um so I figured it would be good to have David speak to what he's thinking about this um and where what he would like to see with this thanks Mar yeah so I just took an idea from our last meetings to go through and see what other cities and communities have put together for a park uh first I looked at kind of a good location and with the hints of our million dooll View and LC Stevens Park I thought you know kind of right along that little Archway would be ideal for you know whatever we choose to do with Veterans Park and I kept the idea ideas and thoughts pretty small uh as you can see here there is you know the million dooll one there with the pillars and the gentleman his rifle which is great but uh my thoughts were just keep it small um just a couple pictures here you know sure they they could be headstones or we could take that um seal and sink that into the ground there or we could get people involved and say sponsor an area and just have a little off pivot there so I didn't do a lot of searching a lot of digging or anything like that just kind of threw something together in my free time uh wanted to pop it out here just to hopefully spark ideas thoughts um you know especially Doug this is kind of your your baby so just getting the ball rolling really um I like the um the brick idea you can buy a brick um but I guess location is the next step okay should it be in LC Stevens should it be in a different park I think I like the idea of LC Stevens it had that tie in with wind Stevens that right I think that's that's a plus and it's a location that we're already working on yeah I think we it fits in nicely there in my opinion it would be nice to be able to um recognize wi Stevens for what he has contributed to not only Dayton but the City of Minneapolis I will say one thing that we did I didn't note on here um we talked last time about um putting something out on social media trying to get some feedback on that um since that meeting we the council has decided to go with a survey uh crew we were looking at um putting something on uh referendum for the uh the vote in this year but um it looks like we're not going to have time to do that so we're uh working with a company and John can probably talk better to this than I can yeah so staff and the council has had this discussion of having a a public opinion survey and so there's a company that's called Morris Leatherman that has conducted a number of surveys for area cities on you know many different topics so there's a general kind of question or quality of life um so there's a series of I can't remember how many questions that you know for whatever topics that the council or would like to have um so some specific topics that the council has asked for is related to Parks um both you I'm generalizing this as far as uh Sports Parks versus passive Parks as well as trails and you can break down each of those topics further so specific to Veterans Park would be if there's a specific type of uh Park amenity that should be in Dayton so like you know a Veterans Park would be one example Splash Pad would be another example uh so you know generally is there's support for a Veterans Park from the public um and if so do they have any idea where or what it might look like and it's a very subjective question so you know one person may say I want this and someone may say I want the opposite and it's up to the commission to kind of interpret what that means but we're too late for that survey is that what you said no so we're we're kind of in the very beginning discussion between staff and the uh consultant um we're hoping to bring this to the council um probably some probably in July or August probably more like August so there's a chance that we could be in on a veterans subject you if you would like yeah yeah this is kind of what why I brought it up is because if we want to do that now's the time to talk about it yeah I think it's you know we probably get a better response or a feel of what what people want rather than just posting something on the city website and hoping somebody will respond this is going to be driven by an targeted yeah that sounded really cool how they do it so so the way the the survey works is that the contractor would call you and make an appointment to call you again for a longer conversation and so they contact 400 residents of um I'll say kind of an even umol yeah even pool of of demographics so you know equal you know 50% men 50% women different you know uh equal age groups uh different parts of the geography of the city um so of those 400 residents you end up getting a a scientific uh result back that's more representative of the whole city sounds like a good idea yeah I agree what do we need do we need a motion on that or um no I I guess the question would be is there anything specifically that you want to know from from the residents I think the most important is the Veterans Park subject and the athletic complex okay you want do you want the as part of the Veterans Park do you want to you know them to identify location for it or I don't know if that's too specific John I think it's probably too specific I I think a lot of residents aren't not going to be familiar with where all the parks are in the city okay so just a yes or no basically like would you be for um it might also be if you know if there if the resident is familiar with another Veterans Park in a different city um you know what what um attributes are they looking for what they what would they like to see I also think that asking about the athletic complex if we keep talking about that and it's obviously a big undertaking uh we see where people are at with it yep cuz there's plenty of people that have no problem going to Champlin for things or to Maple Grove or whatever and we might not be hearing from the people that are like why don't we have this here and if that's the deal then over the next four or five years we have to carve out some money and figure out some land you know but if people don't care then they don't you know it's just interesting to get if you're going to get a full 400 different houses that's a really great sample set and that's way better than our opinions in my opinion and kind of on that same topic and one of the questions will be is what what are the resident priorities for spending money so you know when you think of the sports complexes this is going to be fairly expensive and so if this is a a priority for residents how much are they willing to pay in additional taxes to support whatever that is and is a sports park more important than a Veterans Park or splash pad or something else like where are their priorities that's great well I am not expecting us to have an athletic complex built overnight I'm my goal is to find the land right and then take the next step and but like CDA said that they'd be willing to help with funding it and there's other grants and other things out there so if it's a $5 million project or whatever it is like where does the money come from what's the breakdown is it you know half a million you know is it a tax increase over you know where do we carve it out but I agree with Doug a lot of it's the the Land part right now mhm okay when would we get the results back do you think from this survey um it cuz we're I couldn't tell you I'm going to say it's a couple of months but I couldn't tell you for sure so we're thinking 2025 then we could do something with a Veterans Park um yes I I'm thinking this this would be a 2025 project of of planning it over the winter and okay figuring out you know establishing a budget and so on okay on the topic of the sports complex is the is it's funded something that would be explored in the survey or is that something you would leave to the council to figure out like um I would taxes versus borrowing versus whatever else oh I I would put a lot of lean lean a lot on the results of the residents of um you know for example if if um you know this this conversation with the council if there's interest in putting in a referendum the council needs to know how much to ask for and you don't want to ask for too much because it's going to get voted down so you got to ask the right question and and that's based on you know if the resident say I'm I'm willing to pay $10 a year or $100 a year it makes a big difference so it's in asking through the public opinion survey of how much more money are you willing to spend property taxes for what service gotta and I think you need to put together several options it's I mean like the firehouse and the athletic complex it's you have to offer them a little candy out there to get them to come your way I think it'd be advantageous if you could find a piece of property that could accommodate both I mean that just looks good for the city and I I feel like all around like utilizing that property to its best means if you can do three different services on it right complex training facility and a firehouse absolutely on one property on one big piece of property makes sense at least at least from My Lens so I'm not at I don't know that it needs to be a contagious piece of land sure I just I just want a firehouse and an athletic complex somehow tying those projects together at some point you're saying okay all right I see just saying now so when are they planning to do the survey um I don't know yet so uh yeah right now we're just working on kind of drafting questions so there are good times and bad times to ask questions you're all set there then well would it be I have a question would it be beneficial if we asked the Survey Company what kind of questions they want what what kind of questions they would want us to ask in their survey kind of thing so like what kind of I'm trying to think like if there's a certain question tell them what we want to find out and help have them help word it yeah here's how here's what we're looking for you know what information do you need from the commission for you to formulate the questions that you're going to ask the people like there's doing that conjoin partnership kind of thing you know so I mean other than just coming at it blind asking them like hey Parks Commission has interest in utilizing this service as well so however that ties together yeah I know the the contractor they've done this for many different cities and and so I'm thinking my assumption is that they have many you know a whole laundry list of questions that they've asked before it's just what are the topics that the council wants to to know about and then they'll have a question that fits that query my only concern in this swinging this all the way back to the veterans memorial is we all agree that we should have a memorial somewhere in here and if we tie this to which is a great idea to the survey we are pushing it out a year in my mind looking at this we are going to keep it 10,000 or less something easy quick but meaningful so everybody is willing to push it out till 2025 just to get a question answered I'm on board but I just wanted to bring that to the group I think that's reasonable I I think the goal there I think eventually we're going to have to identify the veterans and get them excited about a veterans oneor so I think 2025 is fine did we talk about this at the last I know I remember at the last Parks meeting I was at was there was there a discussion about possible like like a conflict with uh Magnus because aren't they doing a memorial as well yeah there was some discussion about that that they were going to be doing their own memorial um since that conversation that may have changed a little bit and they may well be interested in in working with us on this oh okay so I I I'm not directly involved with this I'm get this through Zach so okay um there may be a little bit of flexibility there with them as well so okay well there we go good your questions are answered or I got all mine y okay y very good can we move on then John's planning update thank you we had a busy spring um so we have uh four con development concept plans that came to the Planning Commission in early June uh they're here before you tonight and then go to the city council tomorrow um so specific to uh consistency with the parks and trails plan is what I'm looking for in the commission is um recommendations or comments for each project as it relates specifically to parks and trails and so kind of want my thought is to go through these kind of each one by one and just get a reaction from the commission uh so the first project is blue stone properties uh let's see and let let me just give you kind of a round roundabout where each of these in or in GE geographically and then I'll get into each one individually so the first topic is blue stone properties so this is on the uh well that really highlighted um on the North Shore of Diamond Lake uh the second project is sheney which is on the North border of Laura Lake not going to touch those good job Jo uh thank you and then we have DCM Farms which is uh I can't avoid it off of Brook and then py off of a Territorial Road and well that one worked and East French Lake Road okay so the first project [Music] for and eventually this will catch up is for blue stone properties so this is uh what's being proposed is 45 single family homes on the North Shore of Diamond Lake um within the parks plan uh the parks plan proposes a trail along the North Shore of Diamond Lake as well as a trail connection that goes up through the middle of the project or the middle of the property up to North Diamond Lake Road yes um and then also there's a search area for I believe it's a top lot within the the same area um the project itself is proposing a a boat or I'll call it a lake access this would be a private access for the residents of the 45 homes um and as far as Parks go there there's none that's proposed that would be open in the public so this is kind of with the concept plan uh what we ask is the developer to put a plan together it's fairly rudimentary it doesn't have much engineering to it it's intended to solicit comments and recommendations from the commission um everything that is said is non-binding so you can have one commissioner that says they they want one thing and another commissioner that says they want the opposite and the developer has to figure out what that means um so again as it relates to parks and trails in the comprehensive plan uh the trail plan or the parks and trails plan uh proposes a trail along North Diamond Lake Road or North D the shore of North Diamond Lake as no Diamond Lake it's not North Diamond Lake there's only one Diamond Lake um as well as a trail along North Diamond Lake Road in a connection between the Lake Trail and the road Trail as well as a Tot Lot somewhere on the property um I will mention what one thing that is unique about this property is it it does have an existing uh I'm called a Farmstead at at kind of right in the middle of the property um that does have a a group of three accessory buildings small accessory buildings or shelters um one and I I don't know the whole story of this it appears that it it's more of a stage there's one that is an outdoor kitchen another that's an outdoor bar um the current property owner I believe has owned it for a few years but is not the one that built all these things so there there's got to be some history with these that I'm not aware of any all of those things are where in the center of the property um right how you uh how would everybody get access to it if it's in the everybody's backyard so it would not work as far as this layout goes so I guess the question would be from the commission is and it's hard it's a hard question to ask because I'm not showing you any pictures of what this looks like but if um if they're in good condition if there's an interest in um having incorporating that into some type of public park you said it wouldn't be open though to um so the developers intent is everything in here is closed to the public so including the park um including including the boat launch of the lake access so there there's not the Tot Lot uh I don't think they mentioned a Tot Lot that's we want a Tot Lot sure I I don't think necessar us to back that we do go ahead K I was going to say the only thing they have on here is the private dock correct so the developer does not have a a plan for a top bot that's something that the comprehensive plan would suggest that there be one um I don't think the developer was uh knowledgeable about that when you created this point yeah I'd like especially in an isolated area like this with that busy road I'd love to see a a park for the the kids who are going to be in there um great if it was tied in with that that you know on the water or something'd be really cool um but I think that'd be good to see and I hadn't even consider the idea of reusing those structures but I did see those I think there's pictures of those structures in the council packet or the planning packet and it looked really cool yeah I didn't even think about the idea of reusing them but I'd like to see I'm going to look at them again okay so where can we see pictures of those I think it was the uh it would be in the council pack the city council packet from uh well for June 25th um so for tomorrow this evening I don't it up but I don't have that up here page 180 of [Applause] 290 um while we're it's a large packet and I'll take AE or so to find this are there other comments the trail connections would be important as well um that one's maybe more and it's all private properties around there so we don't really have an established Trail line yet right so it's yeah either on North diamond or along the shore right and if it was along the shore mean you have to go behind those homes I guess and cut onto the road they're not going want Trail in their yard and if I recall correctly these are going to be pretty spendy homes too I don't know if that changed so developers assumption is that the Lakeshore homes would sell for around 2 million okay do you know if there have any any up dates with the developer on sewer versus septic um just cuz that would change the quantity of the homes yes I I know the developer is open to either one okay so the images here are of the property so this is um along North Diamond Lake Road and then these are the structures that I was mentioning and then just a view of the lake so did I something this will be on sewer and water um it so the initially it came in the developer was proposing bringing sewer and water from Rogers uh Planning Commission did not recommend that so um so and I should add that this is kind of going outside the preview of The Parks Commission um so this project is planned for sewer and water after the year 20150 so there's a bigger conversation of if it's premature or not CLE other properties out there that wanted to build that are outside of that as well sure yep make a well this is one's fine by the rest MH so specific though to parks and trails I guess the question kind of my hand is if this project were to move forward what would you like to see for uh parks and trails like to see parks and trails I think a Tot Lot as a start because it's on that plan and then you know something to incorporate you know at least thinking about future connectivity whether it's you know where between these homes would you spit a trail out maybe if it's not there today that's fine but we built in the easement or whatever is necessary to facilitate that I think I'd like to see that and on the guess it' be the what the West Side maybe you're already set up if that if it tied in with that public a or that water access you still have to solve that other side it's about two cents I see that it's very close to the Magnus veteran found maybe we can do our Memorial Veterans Park there connected some at this part of this right yeah doesn't seem like probably not something they're going to do take one of them $2 million Lots right and when is this supposed to start taking place or when are they going to break ground or where is it uh so it needs to be go through the approval process yet so that that typically takes about 6 Mons months to go through so this this would be a 2025 construction if it's approved okay and does that start with the ccil reviewing it tomorrow yes well I agree with John I like that there's the path along the lake and up at the top on that busy road but I think there needs to be a park structure inside of it cuz that's kind of what I mean that's what I love about our community is the fact that every new development is putting in park so that there's a place for outdoor green for individuals to gather they are planning for pool playground or all that's still none of that's n none of none of that they don't have any of it in the pl interesting it would seem to me as though the easement that he's showing there down to the lake with the boat launch that could be reconfigured into a pretty good size piece of property for a park and John what did you say the houses were going to go for again or what was the I I'm going to say between one and two million so there's a big difference between being on the lake and not being on the lake and so is this is if it's going for that maybe what they're thinking is they it's a post kids thing like a lot of people that are 55 to 75 that are I would guess so I'm just I'm just interested I mean that's that's a such a different de different demographic than like Pine V Meadows or River Hills like it just seems like a much different I don't think there'd be a lot of young families with kids that could afford that those right totally so that's what I'm just wondering like from a green space perspective I guess I would not saying it's good but I understand why they're not wanting to have a lot of it because it's people that are probably sure they're to boat but Grandma Grandpa are they are grandma grandpa going to be frustrated though when they bought this house and like wait where can I take my grandkids now that I have grandkids I have to either take them along North Diamond Lake Road which sounds like a terrible idea yes or something else you know get in a car to another and the lot sizes are are they half acre um it it varies and I this is going to change if if uh the council is supportive of this like this design will change quite a bit John John is um the trail that that's depicted there does that follow the Diamond Lake Regional Trail I think that cuts around there doesn't it um I want to say that was along zanthus which is oh I think you're right yeah yeah I think it does come up around this side yeah y because Magnus we going to try and Link something in with Magnus I think there's that neighborhood here so potential of this being a regional park Tria neighbor how many acres is this property 40 I guess looking at the relationship to council goals how does JAM and 45 houses in 40 acres preserve the rural character that's a question with every project okay not the only one so other comments um let me get this let me understand this if I could marate the property around the lake is serviced by Rogers for sewer but not for water correct they have their own personal well yep and then many years ago we needed to do something and so we yeah we had to move we couldn't have all those septics and whales at the same time because we're getting issues with failures with the septic which stand the chance of corrupting the wells so we put in a force main to Rogers with a limited number of services um attached to I think it was something like 52 services that we um have permission to put on that and so what are we doing here this is going to be so right right now the request is to bring in sewer and water from Rogers uh for this project so is Council is is happy with that we'll find out tomorrow we'll find out tomorrow what do you think Marty I think you this is me speaking I think it's a bad idea because it's taken away the opportunity for dayon to develop out its own water and SE system in this area it will put us back a long ways um through developing the system up to the Old Village area so I think that this is premature um project at this time I agree with that statement and how about you I think we should stick to the comp plan simple y makes sense so I like the trails we should have a park the boat landing for them privately give or take okay we have a beautiful Landing just on the other side of the lake call them if they're looking for private stuff would they be putting up a gate gated entrance on to uh I'm not sure we would allow that but I mean that's I'm just curious like whenever you start doing that that County Road uh North Diamond like I don't think they'd allow it but that's just my my observation from other asks from other places so true I think iall one of the goals of the boat launch or boat was multiple slips for the residents as a perk so I would imagine they'd probably try to lock that up somehow so they could have their own row of docks somewhere their own everywhere so that the houses off the lake would have a boat on the lake potentially still yeah DN still I know don't think John I have a this is going to sound rude but I'm just going to ask it I'm a we are like a lake family and I've never thought of that Lake as a lake that I would put my foot in why would people be spending one to2 millionar a year to build or look at a lake that they're never going to physically go in um it might be cheaper than other Lake Properties in the Twin Cities so a lot of it is just the appearance of the lake not necessarily like people that build on the river and stuff yeah get it I was just curious cuz for me if I'm building a place on a lake or looking at a lake property I looking for a beach I'm looking for a Shore I'm looking for kids being able to play and I've never not to be rude but I've never thought of that Lake as a lake that I was going to go hop in on a Saturday mhm okay just curious I'm just curious to see like and I'd be interested to find like if there were actually 45 families that are going to or couples or individuals that would build you know one to two $2 million homes on places where they can't actually I mean they can vot on it sure but I think various you think so people just want the view they don't want to look in Neighbors it's in the cities it's one of the few undeveloped Lakes y that landing's busy on the weekend I'll tell you it's not all Bo people are splashing and playing interesting okay maybe I need to go check it out again yeah it's nicer than I thought throw your suit on might be as green as your lawn oh any other comments for this [Laughter] project okay can we move on do you have enough information yes um sorry no that was fantastic that's not what I want okay so the next project I don't think I wanted to do that um is it's referred to as the Shany property and that might be as oh okay it's a little slow to that'll make you files a smaller for John uh so this is in the same neighborhood it's on the north side of Laura Lake um the developer is proposing 13 lots that range in size between 3 acres and 24 Acres so um what's unique about this property so this is just south of um Thicket Hill Thicket thi Hills Thicket Hills yeah so the developer intent generally is to try to duplicate Thicket Hills a little bit as far as the character goes um so lot size varies between 3 acres and 24 acres and then what what I started to say is what's unique about this is there there is a very large Wetland complex to the north and to the West there's a lot of topography kind of um that splits the north property from the south property that leads into Lake on here it's Lake Laura but depending on the map it's Laura Lake um so again as it relates to parks and trails uh the parks plan proposes a trail along the north side of North Diamond Lake Road as well as the South Side a trail that goes around Laura Lake as well as a neighborhood park along the North Shore of Laur Lake and so a neighborhood park is defined as 5 to 25 acres so this would be more of a inactive Park um when we created the the uh Parks map it you know as far as identifying more Parks go it's kind of a bubble diagram so somewhere within a search area is going to be whether it's a neighborhood park or Tot Lot or something else it's not necessarily the same location but in this map it it uh identified the North Shore area of of luro Lake um so again just to summarize what the parks plan is proposing is a trail along the north side of North Bon Lake Road as well as a trail along the shore of Laura Lake in a neighborhood park um generally on the North Shore of Laurel Lake but it's somewhere within that area so comments specific to parks and trails I'm not crazy about this project at home and the reason for that is that I'm the chairman of the Elm Creek watershed management commission and this is nothing but trouble you know darn well those large Parcels are going to be horse ranches and what are you going to do with the you know we've got ordinances now in the in the Watershed where the property owner has to take his manure off site um to get rid of it um here we're going to be in the same situation I I don't see how I just I don't see how it's going to work I could be wrong but boy I tell you I haven't been wrong for a long time [Laughter] you can kick me later why does he have to wait how big a park was that again I'm sorry uh 5 to 25 acres that's a junk of land yep all Low Land uh well it it depends so you know in like you know let's say a neighborhood park was going to be within this area so you can look on here and shows the topography um where would it be appropriate uh so the parks plan just throws out the NorthShore of Laura Lake but then there's a question of how do you get there or how do you get access to it if it were this would be off of the development if it were closer to the road you could see that there's a park on the lake because it's between the lake and the the road um but that's not part of this that location is not part of this project and it would be open to the public D Clos to the development yes okay well can't go wrong with taking more land and a trail I am a little bit confused though because it looks like that's a LW the blue Lin yeah so the development does not take a parks and trails into account so at at the sketch plan stage so this is so it just be that that lot would be smaller because you would cut out an access to a park or the city would acquire that lot or the city would acquire that lot okay do you know oh sorry go ahead oh um just to I don't know if this is confusing at all so this is a proposed street that would service the project or the development and then connect to uh uh Thicket Hill thiet thi Lane thi Hill Lane th Hills yeah thick Hills is the neighborhood I think Thicket Lane be the straight name you know so M guess my question was related to that so we're connecting these two neighborhoods was when Thicket Hills was built out did they just do the contribute to the parks Fund in Li of like there's no parks that I recall they're definitely there are none I I could not say so and I I don't remember when Thicket Hills was developed I say it was the early 1990s but me Doug remember I don't I'm just you know that's another neighborhood that doesn't have a park that now we have an opportunity to kind of fulfill that need potentially um unfortunate for this developer that it might be their land but they would have had to contribute something presumably anyway um yeah it looks like a great spot but like you said it's not that visible not easily accessible Without Really weaving through the neighborhood on the north side of that Lake but I think it would be important to maintain connectivity and and have a park in there okay and that's all assuming that the Watershed things were sorted out which I'm not sure they could be but other comments I think that we have an urgent requirement to get our arms around a u large animal or okay so you mean specific to manure management pardon me like specific to manure management not necessarily manure management but how many how many animals you can have on a property we we do have that now well you do but it's I'm still seeing as I drive the territory I still see an awful lot of areas where it appears to be feed lot conditions MH and that's just a asking for trouble so I think that I'd like to see a reduction in the number of animals that you can have on a property okay just we can yep we can look at that all right I guess I have another question there's looks like maybe an easement or something between the two Parcels not involved in this development just to the South there yeah so th this is road right away so this is uh zanis Avenue I believe and then we have Road right away that is right across from there although there's a whole lot of topography it's may not be practic called to build a street through here that that was the intention when this was originally pled and I don't know the whole history of that but I guess this is just their proposal yep did did the okay other comments no okay so the third project is DCM farm so DCM stands for a Dean Country Manor uh so this is Fernbrook and then 113th uh this is Dean's Country Manor right here um this is a large here we go uh large area it's a 90 Acres total um the developer has submitted three different concept plans that generally range between 200 and 400 units so depending if there's apartments involved or not um so the generally speaking uh these lots are either uh detached town homes or uh single family home or a combination of single family homes detached town homes and then not shown on here there's a couple of options for um attached Town H home so whether it's a fourplex a sixplex and eight Plex um this pinkish area is commercial retail and then in the northwest corner we have uh area 21 uh so this is one of the developments that would be contributing towards area 21 uh so questions related to parks and trails the assumption is is you're going to want to continue to to um accept land donations for area 21 um but then as far as Trail connectivity between area 21 and other areas other parks and trails such as Elm Creek Park um the uh Parks plan does include area 21 I don't believe it includes any Trails within this area which is a little bit of a surprise um north of area 2 well through area 21 is a large overhead utility line uh so generally speaking if if if there's a desire to take advantage of that to put in trail a trail system um you that would be important to know from The Parks Commission and then also just any Trail connectivity through the neighborhood whether it's behind homes or on streets or both so there already is a trail um underly under those lines now on the top half correct um crew braburn I believe yeah braburn I think there was that was part of the game plan there and I think there's to a degree on Sundown Woods I think there's a trail that does go underneath the uh power lines there as well yeah the concept plan similar to the other ones it doesn't include anything specific to Trail so it's just showing lot Street and lot layout well I think it would be important to continue that trail because we already we're talking about putting it in half of the park especially because I think most of our parking is going to be on that bottom half I agree agreed and I like I'd like to try to keep the snow beile trail going as long as we can you know if we can build in a way that that lets that continue to have folks on the North access well and vice versa but you know get people into I don't know if Deans is going to persist or but suance is down there too it's fun to be able to ride down there it's the rural feel right you could keep a trail if we were looking at the very north of that you know that thoughts up against braver cut out a little Trail there and you can almost wind it through all the rest of those properties all the way down to Dean's Manor um like through like through the Lots or through I'm going to call it the mid blocks here okay and then keep it going wind it all the way down there that would give some access these I assume all have sidebox side all around but that would give this better access okay yeah I like that idea especially cuz is that line around the pond showing that they're putting a path around at that line um no that's just a buffer area mhm oh it's a buffer area okay I was thinking that was a little pack so I thought then it would get them to it also is the plan as of now to keep Dean's Country Manor and Sundance intact yes and then put the commercial retail around it yeah so this would be in addition to what's there now so it should get significantly I'm just thinking from a Parks perspective it's going to get more busy significantly more busy from a trail perspective so we're going to be fighting a lot of cars okay can have a prime rib dinner and then go for a walk MH go bowling and get a late night pizza got it so in thinking about the commercial area I guess also is there anything I'll call it special or unique that you'd like to see that's incorporating it into the commercial area uh so you know examples of being of like public plazas or someplace that's more um I'll say passive or uh invites people to to come and gather I guess I think bike accessibility would be big especially with ebikes you know everyone's I shouldn't say everyone a lot of people are are biking places I don't know exactly what that means or what our role in making something accessible is other than you know the guidance we can give back to the developers maybe I don't know if we require anything but I think that'd be important and the trails is maybe enough you know the businesses can decide if they want to service and put bike racks up and stuff I think it's a good thing to keep them separated on that main road coming through all those people living there you wouldn't really really appreciate somebody going for a pizza and then taking off for a walk through the neighborhood stranger just checking things out I don't know but just having some area of separation between the two um aren't they closing down some of Fernbrook once the Dayton Parkway is youan maple gr Parkway pardon you talk about Maple GR Parkway the extension of Maple Grove and then that doesn't that hook up with the Dayton Parkway no hooks up with Fernbrook Maple Gro Parkway is just been realigned a little bit no yeah I think at least my perspective on this is if they are going to do the commercial retail and all of that I think that all of those houses basically north of 81 and then over and then Fernbrook so anything from Elm Creek all the way over to the you know a couple miles west whatever we can do to get paths as they're going through all those neighborhoods past that connect all the way through so that someone that lives 2 three miles away but is doesn't have to get you know they're west of Fernbrook they could get over there easily sure to whether it be bike or running or whatever it may be and then again I John's recommendation on some form of if someone could do some form of bike racks I think that that would be it also seems like the perfect area if anyone's looking for input to have some form of another I don't know if we need another one in the area but a brewery or that type of a place I feel like the people that live in that Sundance area really like Sundance already but it's just getting so big and so busy that if they had another place that was a family dog kid-friendly patio type area Okay there'd be a lot of demand for that family Brewery okay we you don't think of like well think of like Elm Creek right like a lot of people or excuse me um Elm Creek or Omni either one it's a very open door and welcomes a lot of different types of people whether they're bikers or kids or dogs and I think those types of businesses I mean yes people need to get their haircut and get coffee and those things too but having a business like that in that area I think there's just so many families to support it I know living up this way there's been I think everyone in our neighborhood asks every day like when rain tree Plaza is going to become something more useful to the neighborhood because when we all moved in we had Tasty Pizza for a few months and then that went down and we haven't had anything since so I think you know that thinking of the southern part of the city I think they would really support it well mhm okay other comments so there's a percentage of land that a developer has and it breaks down to a donated part right so does that area in the corner for area 21 does that meet or are they missing a couple acres I haven't done the math on it I'm sure this is less than the park donation so this would be a combination of land and cash donation okay unless the developer wanted to weave in a Tot Lot here sure or Gathering Spot here okay any comments on this one I don't see any um any area for an athletic complex here no not on this one or a zipline is that on your mind is that what are we thinking about that every day yeah so realistically I mean for a sports complex it would go out where there's not sewer and water currently available um so that you know essentially land that isn't as valuable as this is so it would go farther north than where this project is I'm not talking oo I'm talking J I think he means like up for book north and west of there where there's not this is all sewer and water already correct I trying to find cheaper Lots is what cheaper land yeah you're getting to the point where you're going to be out there so far that Champlain won't even know how to get there I mean this is the Champlain Dayton Athletic Association we have been very very lucky because Champlain has worked with us they have given us all of the complex all of those teams have used their facilities now it's our turn and to have something on the Rogers border I don't think and I is realistic when I say farther north I don't necessarily mean you know the north border of of Dayton but you know this is more the the South border closer to to Maple Grove um you know the Fernbrook is a major road that has access to to Champlain there's a lot of land between this and uh you know Fernbrook to French Lake Road so there's a lot more opportunities but yes we still need to find the right piece of land so it is something what I'm talking about I do okay so other comments related to this project saying Brockton he's saying Fern Fernbrook I Fern Brook's a lot different than Brockton to Champlin people so I think we're good feel pretty feisty tonight Doug I just woke up that's what I 29 yeah one minute to go okay 's okay so the last project is I'm just referring to this oh I went too far as a py project so um there we go uh so this is at the intersection of Territorial Road in East French Lake Road so this is a plan for uh I can't remember what the number is 42 single family homes of the adjacent neighborhood is territorial Trail and the intent is for this to be kind of a continuation of territorial Trail as much as possible uh the developer specific to parks and trails the developer is proposing a Tot Lot uh there's been some conversations or from the neighborhood that they don't necessarily want another Tot Lot they would like something other than another feature other than a Tot Lot um so I the sport court so that's something I'm I'm looking for feedback from the park commission as far as Trail go um Three Rivers is proposing a Regional Park Trail along Territorial and then uh within the parks plan I believe we have a trail along East French Lake Road but now I got a I'm questioning my memory here if that was included or not um yes I know we just pulled that one through braen there that will'll link up on so oh I'm glad you brought that up so Three Rivers is proposing a Regional Trail along the north side of Territorial Road uh the parks plan proposes a trail along East French Lake Road and then Marty is um talking about a trail that kind of follows the uh Creek or the ditch that goes through this Wetland complex connecting to gra bur and 117th yeah so there's a lot going on with this one um also there's a uh gas line easement that goes through the property which the developers proposing to put a trail along the gas line easement so with regards to that on the the right hand side of this picture that trail is that the property that the potential Trail along the Ravine or the ditch or whatever is that that property that was switching hands right after that we met and discussed this and then for sale and then it came out that oh the HOA is actually just about to take over that's different okay this one's for sale okay um so again the developers Trail layout is along the gas pipeline and then connecting to along East French Lake Road um the parks plan proposes a trail location all the way down to territorial so I guess the question is how do you connect the Three Rivers Trail along ter teritorial to the city's Trail along the gas pipeline if you'd prefer that to go through the neighborhood or along East French like Road get them off the road especially that stretch if you're adding more people to it put them in the neighborhood is that going to be kind of like a corridor or a trunk for that Regional Trail then or would that just be an offshoot into the Dayton trails it's a it's a Regional Trail there is it uh Three Rivers would be a Regional Trail so do you want to pump that through a neighborhood no I wouldn't pump the Regional Trail through a neighborhood I don't think that they would want to do that either I think what we're talking about is one on East French Lake Road which is a city okay so that wouldn't be okay yeah that would be that would be a city tra okay right so if you have the trail going through this gas line eement they go down that road where the little cold sack is and then maybe hop on territory from there mhm and then that way you keep it in the neighborhood instead of on a busy East CR but then where does the rest I think we propos a trout going all the way up East crate Road oh to continue going north to yeah yeah if you already have a trail in there then it makes sense that you just keep it okay and and I don't think there's a trail there currently it would there's a trail up through through um yeah uh territorial by black blackouts Court there okay it comes out onto exits out onto there but it's not fully developed out okay and when we talk a trail through the neighborhood would that be like a sidewalk through the front yard on one side well it dep that depends I mean so we would have a sidewalk on one side of the street or another but that that's a separate issue that from trail trail yeah you know so Trail being 10 ft wide to 8 to 10 foot wide so more than a sidewalk yeah sure and you don't generally want to run a trail in front of somebody's front of their house because you black Black Top Trail and then to link those into black driveways is kind of a messy thing in it so how would you run that through the neighborhood um I don't know okay it's probably the best answer I guess I was in my head I'm seeing it along Road for that reason but I agree it'd be great to get people further from a busy road especially if it's not a main Corridor and it's just just a Dayton Trail but I'm just not ping I mean remember people were against even just adding the sidewalk because they don't want to shovel it in other neighborhoods so and I think int if the trail were along the road it wouldn't be you know right up against the road we'd have a a boulevard between the two now it makes sense in my opinion to keep it how it is you give them a little Trail through the middle but you keep it along East French Lake just because you're going to connect other communities trying to get down to your Territorial Road so when they were saying they wanted something other than a Tot Lot what was it that they had wanted a a sport court so within like a pickle ball court or basketall or something like that or or something that you know no one else has talked about that you may be familiar with so and I don't know what that would be but yeah sure if I'm if I'm reading the map right basically under the Y and Dayton is the existing Tot Lot right um pretty close so yeah you'd have the two tot lots are yeah clearly a block way I agreed that I was excited to see someone actually thought about a park in their plan but it's just not the park we want or where we want it but I think it would be worth looking at something else okay yeah if we already have that feedback that's hugely valuable yeah um anything specific as far as an idea goes if if it's a basketball court versus something else sounded like there was some feedback already not that that's necessarily representative of everyone but was that specific feedback or just that we don't want another top lot um I think the intent is don't duplicate what's already there okay so they weren't asking specifically for pick a ball or rollerblading whatever there well I'm going to say I've heard suggestions of both basketball and pickle ball and a playground for something a different age group than what's already there so there's competing interest sure so would that then be just for this neighborhood or again open up to the city because if we're going to do a couple pickle ball courts then we're going to need some sort of parking other people can come that's that's a great question for the commission if if you have a preference of a private park versus a public park I don't think we can do private um well well you mean like do you mean attraction versus just designated to a neighborhood sort of if it were specific to the neighborhood then it would be probably just a basketball court or you know or a top lot or something that's a small facility if you're looking at you know full-size basketball court or two or three or four pickle ball courts you're inviting um I'll say non-residents to use this yep and then it becomes more of a a city park HOA Park I guess my thinking is try to stick with the sort of scale of a tot lot but maybe change the subject to half court or a pickle ball or something that that might be more valuable to the residents but not a total draw because it's not meant to be a community park or whatever sure that's what I was thinking you're saying keep it as a private HOA Park I guess no I was I was thinking it would be a public city park that any Resident has access to but we don't build it with a parking lot and to draw people in from other neighborhoods you know like a top lot would be that you know I could bring my kid there that's totally legal but you don't have a parking lot saying hey everyone come here on on Saturday okay that's that was my thinking on it smaller scale right right not not meant to attract others but everyone's welcome because it's a city thing I think we have to get away from talking about not having any parking lots to get rid of people you got old people like me with grandkids you're going to want to park there I I don't disagree I think it looks if they put it here I think there's plenty of plenty of uh of street parking for the size that that thing is going to be I I haven't had an issue at other other parks in the city personally we have a lot of neighborhood parks that are already like in the neighborhood but don't have any parking lot and people come and visit from around the community and just drive their car and park there and it's fine cuz the roads are pretty wide and it's pretty non isue I think it's accommodating enough that being said D I agree with what you're saying to a certain extent but like if you go over rivers Ben I still have never seen anyone Park in those parking spots we've got what 10 parking spots there yeah 10 I think it's more than 10 quite a few there may be more than 10 yeah and I've never seen a car park there I could be going there at the wrong part of day but I think what John is like at a certain point it's taking up space that's not necessarily getting used you know it'd be different D if it was was like set up like Andrew's park with all the sports and all the things happening that parking lot is awesome cuz it's got you might have 500 people there at any given time but so many of these parks are usually 10 to 20 people it's like well you can just park on the street and I'll park it on the street is fine as long as you the citizens don't mind you parking out in front of their house well in this in this circumstance I think there's a good amount land that wouldn't be in front of someone's property not that they don't not that they know exactly where their property line is and don't feel like that's their yard but I know what you're saying I parked in front of homes for uh across the way here I forget that development and if you don't park on that one side you're in front of someone's house and but they were nice and they waved um but like with our Park we've got probably 10 you could probably Park 10 cars back to back to back in front of our park that are just on the side of the road they aren't in a parking spot but they're on the side of the road there's just the that opening to the park you don't have to have designated additional parking Deport I got a question hey Marty uh quick um do all city parks have to be ADA Compliant um I didn't think there's any um hard of pass rle that we have um in our own guidelines but I I think that we are moving towards making we have been making a conscious effort to make all of our Parks ADA Compliant in one way or another whether it's accessibility or or um infrastructure included in the parts just curious as like that is that something that we like consider for like these toot lots and then for like a parking you thinking well handicap parking space or handicap accessibility like the curb cut off kind of thing like that just access you can park on the street you know so wherever there's a curb out in date and then they are uh designed for ADA compliance so that the the angle and you have the domes in there and stuff like that so there are all of our um new uh Cod cuts are ADA Compliant they see that the county was going through and doing a bunch of work and making like their portions but like we have some of our stuff but I'm just curious like on something like particular to like this one would this be something that the city would move towards like hey making that like 88 accessible like as far as like having a curb specific curb cut out from the street for wheelchair accessibility and things of that nature I just trying to think is like there that an element that would be implemented when we start like we're going to own that that lot I I guess or that Park so is that part of our requirements then is that it's accessible all when when when it was designed out depending on where you have trails and ACC You full access to it you know wherever you cross the road um like that then you would have a compliant ramps P ramps so you had mentioned something about an HOA is it possible that it could just be covered through an HOA instead of becoming a city park yes I mean that that's the uh what the developer is proposing so it's a question from the park commission do you have a preference of because if they're yeah because if they're willing to cover it in their HOA then why are we talking about taking on more cost well I would look at like I own Gardens as maybe the HOA folds and then suddenly they're not taking care of it and it wasn't designed with our input that's that was my thinking on the value of having it be something that we deal with but potentially does cost more I think that's true of everything with the ho if they fold it will'll eventually come back to the city for us to maintain I think the the thing that drove the ion Garden thing was it was two HOAs um okay two developments that had half each um and they assembled the lot that way um and two different developers one had a hway the other one was going to have a hay Cho and then they didn't one of them didn't have a a hay Choy at the end of the day so that's you know you would have had a park that was only maintain half maintained so sure maybe it's less common than I thought but I still I still like the idea of a park that you drive by in the city being something that everyone's allowed to go to so right but like ours is an ho and people come to it it's not like we're policing it sure same with River Hills same with others I just assumed that all of our Parks I did until I joined parks would be 8 compiling Oh I thought something else well and there's a difference I mean we're talk when we're this conversation when we're talking about uh curb cuts that are ADA compliance versus um I'll say uh universally accessible play equipment where you have a flat rubber surface rather than wood chips or or any other surface or you have um you know swing sets that are easily accessible um you know you're uh you know so that's something that we haven't I don't know if we've had that discussion here or not but I think that we it has been brought up um over the last well since we've been putting in Parks yeah um new playgrounds has certainly been something that's been coming further and further to the Forefront of uh what we do when we design particularly I think when we did something like Rivers Bend or mcneel um there was a lot of ADA Compliant equipment uh being supplied by the the manufacturers then um um the accessibility of getting people there was was easy enough but actually having something there to occupy them when they got there it wasn't so much of the the swing sets you know or the musical instruments that they can play on that kind of thing so as those things become more available we started incorporating them more and more into part and the rubber surfacing is something that we've been working on in the last two or three parks that we've done so those are things that are just been developed with this organically there's no uh City rules on that or ordinances or guidelines for how that is should be done it's just something that we're we're running with um as a matter of doing the right thing have you gotten any feedback from residence one way or the other on that like hey we love this compliance or hey I can't take my okay no I haven't got anything specifically positive I've you we since I had a a lot of you know complaints about it before we were starting to do this stuff sure um and that's what kind of drives it is you know people saying I can take my kid to the park but there's nothing for them to do there so sure that's why we that's why we changed things so sorry I just have another question so if it is an HOA if they go that route can you is it just left up to them then to just put in the Tot Lot Like You can't ask and if it falls into a disrepair and the residents complain it's call your HOA yep Y is that the same with the bosome apartments their playground's been outo service for quite a while I was going to bring that up over here and the original Tot Lot over here in the territorial Trail sure and we would just recommend that they contact their manag compy we don't have recourse as a city and that we can do about it that's good to know because you I've noticed driving by the bosam apartments there's all those kids over there they can't really get anywhere else very easily I guess the town homes have a playground but they're it's been closed off for like two weeks maybe now Summer's out they're no playground is there is there a requirement as to what the specifications are for the developer no no they can they can choose what they want and put install what they want that's generally why that's generally why they play those tot Lots aren't up to the same standard as a city part okay so then that's the value of turning it into a city sure yep yeah and the maintenance aspect of it you know if it's um is in disrepair and then we would you know we will do something about it'll get taken care of where's hway who knows okay it's all about dollars with that stuff in yeah for sure thank you okay okay other comments on this are you all set I'm all set thank you park Improvement projects for 2024 uh I just reading yeah um Commissioners um this is one of those projects that um went the wrong way um unfortunately um Paul had um set a timeline that was unachievable um and so um the majority of this park isn't going to be constru any of the parks are going to be constructed this year area 21 is definitely not going to be touched this year um we're looking to try and Salvage what we can from the project um there's some irrigation like I mentioned in here that we had intended to do so we're going to try and install that this year um and the Northbridge at LC Stevens is what we're trying to get that installed this year we got the plans and everything ready for that so that's going to be kind of easy to do um the rest of it um uh we whatever uh we can fit in this year there may be some structural work that we can do um but other than that I think the the majority of the project is going to be um installed next year and Paul did Supply a a revised timeline on here that he is comfortable with working to um it means that uh it's not going to be done until 2025 basically but in some ways that might be to our advantage um I feel like area 21 we might have secured all four areas of that so we can do it as a one one project so that might be the benefit of that yeah um it's just unfortunate that this went the way it went and I didn't have any I don't have any control over that part of it so um so it's not good news but there is some good news um we got a $100,000 Grant from uh hin youth County Sports Grant um for the playground and some other business pieces in there so sweet that's for 21 specifically uh yeah PSA 21 yeah cool that's what we applied for it for awesome well that's good that's a positive great new the rest is pretty depressing so we're going to focus on that positive this what it is not to go on an ugly twist here but can we find another group to do some architecture work for us absolutely cuz this is very disappointing since you know kind of the hype going into the new year was all this stuff that we are going to accompass I get it people get busy on up to it say I'm too busy come to us and that was in March that we were riding this horse and then in May this comes to you mhm I would highly urge the city to find another place to go with break out the parks make it more consumable digestible passable so we can continue working because even the citizens we had them out hurah you know this is what we want to see this is what we want to do unfortunately we met a vendor who can't do stuff you know let's turn it into a bright side for yep and I I totally agree with you Dave um we will be looking at alternative vendors and probably RFP in the next Park um I've already scoped out a couple of people that were are interested in doing stuff for us so um it's just unfortunate that this has happened we've had good luck with know previous Parks using this method um some stage wheel brakes I guess and then you got to look at something different true that's all I now just Echo it what uh commissioner pel said I think it's just good practice to shop around once in a while anyway so I didn't disagree but we did get $100,000 yeah we did can you turn it into 200 to Vegas did you just get that information I didn't know U it was last week I think or maybe the week before or in the 80s for I could put it on the horses see see how that goes we just hold it let's just put it in a can somewhere let's not touch the horses all right okay okay what's up uh Lea Park another tragedy Story dark quick yeah yeah well John's had all the good news I got the bad stuff um so we uh designed the park and we bit it got everything um approved um we got a little B bit behind with the seeding on that because it took longer to U prep the ground and stuff on at LS finally got it um planted I think it was last spring um big drought year of course and so the seed didn't germinate at all um the cover crop was great plenty of Ry grass over there but very little else the turkeys love it the turkeys absolutely love it I bet a wild life Refugee um there were some some small buds of stuff coming through but uh nothing is going to establish from that um so I talked to the contractor they came out agreed with that they're going to go through and rep prep it um Reed it and it's going to be at their cost they not going to charge us anything to do it um I think I can't remember the exact time frame but they're going to be in mowing through this summer and then they'll do the ground prep in the fall and I think they're going to uh seed in the spring of 2025 and it should look I don't know if you guys have been down by clo Overlook I think it's going to look somewhat like that they're starting to establish and they will be doing a maintenance program on that for three years as well so okay do they share any more than this kind of high level stuff with you like I guess I guess it's in the map of like what they're planting I'm just curious yeah I've got if the things they're planting and how they're planting them match up with the right time of year because I was talking with the neighbor Joe who's does this it's been his his hobby since he retired 18 years ago or whatever and he was just like why are they planting right why would they plant then they should be planting this time of year that's the best time for yeah you know I don't want to tell them how to do their job but the first run didn't go that great maybe they'd be open to I don't know I've got all the specific seed mix information if you want it yeah I think that'd be cool some of it's I think outlined on this map yeah like high level but I would be curious just cuz I've kind of dug into some of that stuff I'd be personally curious what they're looking at I can send that to you is there any way we can put the bench up and trash can or anything there in the meantime or is it just easier say there's no point as someone who looks at it every day there's no point in it's just a bunch of sparse Ry grass right now to put a in the middle yeah I the probability is if anything and this is I think what I originally evil Marty but I think what would be really valuable like yesterday maybe even is this is a native planting site it's in progress so people who drive by don't think it's just a park that we forgot to mle for two years because that's kind of what it looks like with the half germination um to show that it's intentional I think we give you know again not that I know of any NE we did have some signs out there I think Norby actually posted some when they were working there I I don't recall seeing them in the last couple weeks on watch no I didn't think they're still there I think they disappeared yeah cuz I just went on a bike ride over there and I didn't see any signs yeah I know that when they were working there they definitely posted some signs but I don't think they were very robust you know permanent signs I agree something weatherproof on a TST I mean it's not free but for tens of dollars we could probably make a pretty a decent sign that's going to stick around and do we have irrigation there or no so it was just basically bad luck last year yeah yeah and this year it probably would have washed out I didn't I could have done yet or was like any other seed that we've had as a city that's germinating this or it just been washing out because we've had so many big rains um I think it's all about timing with this I mean any seed mix that you put down with the rains that we've had recently is probably going to be a wash out deal don't think there's anything and it's not the way that it's been planted it's been slit seeded into the ground so it's not like it's been put across the top so um I think it was just bad luck that it was so hot last year and it didn't didn't have a chance um the idea with a native Prairie is once it's established it can exist here cuz it has before it's just that we have to we have to overcome what's been there for you know whatever and that was exactly the reason why we chose that for Leathers is because you know irrigation to put it in there is just superbly expensive you you go drill well and run three-phase power there and stuff and that we've looked at it several times it's just incredibly expensive very good thank you def I appreciate that they're taking care of it is there anything else that we need to discuss tonight I sort of already mentioned it but I like I said I've driven by those balam apartments and I see how many wait out for the bus and now they're just they don't have a playground and it bums me out I was hoping it was a city park that we could do something about but if it's something under their management I'll assume that the residents have reached out maybe they don't even know that they should maybe it's the bystander effect and nobody's saying anything but yeah um let see if we can put some pressure on from this city I mean if it was a matter of we just can't get a maintenance guy out we need a bolt replaced or something I mean I don't know there's probably liabilities with your guys working on stuff that's just kind of thinking if it's a resourcing thing could we help or if it's a I generally a responsibility thing can we put pressure yeah I think that um M that's sans's company they're usually very good I've heard that as well working on the fire side so I don't know why that's not working out but I think I got a couple of contacts with Sans that we can give them a call and see if we can pressurize them to get that done thank you so the there is no meeting in July and our meeting for August is on the 6th of August I might have a problem there a 6 okay is there any other business we need to attend to is everyone good with 86 for the next meeting pardon me yeah John good okay does that do you think does 86 work for you or do you want to move it to another day well I think if we have AUM we just need to stay with the schedule perfect okay so for August you mean M I'll try to get back for the August meeting okay otherwise the four of us will be here there well there's a chance I'd be out of town but I could join if it makes a quorum I could try to find a public space and join yeah I just noticed that I don't know what what part of that week I'll be gone exactly so there's I might have ran out the in town but do we need four or we need three three okay so the three of us I'll do my best to get back by just set your alarm a little earlier duck okay i' entertain the motion to J so moved second third We Stand adjourned have a happy summer see you all in August e e