e e order the city of Dayton Parks Commission meeting uh February 4th 2025 let's stand for the Pledge of Allegiance Pledge of alance to United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all call for any additions changes or deletions of the agenda anything no entertain a motion to approve the proposed agenda all motion all second all in favor say I I I I right uh consent agenda entertain a motion to approve the meeting minutes from the January 7th meeting all motion I'll second all in favor say I hi right sorry the babysitter was late it's all right it's all right all right uh open form limited to 3 minutes do we have anybody here for that tour online are there any participants online that would like to raise their hand for the open forum okay uh Council update councilmanic it's good to have you here uh first time here uh for the park deal uh I am your new Council liaison for the park commission don't really have any updates maybe next month okay okay thank you uh staff updats party I just got one um like to introduce Elizabeth who is uh taking over um Danielle's role um so have her tell her story and then she guys want to introduce yourself to her as well that' be cool um yeah my name is Elizabeth uh Decker um I came over from United Health Care um I was selling Insurance before um and then I've worked at like the Rogers um Crown Room Banquet Center in Rogers overseeing events there um I've also worked for the city of Crystal the city of um Golden Valley and the city of Maple Grove um doing different parks and wrecks um things there as well um yeah I'm happy to be here um enjoying the city of Dayton that's for sure cool all right I'm Brad Cole nice to meet you story I like Parks Parks that's all I got yeah put it on a button yeah I'm Carrie lingard we're glad to have you here thank you daveid Pele nice to have you thank you John kson welcome hi I'm Ka Chambers okay good I'm Marty Farrell nice to meet you all right uh regular agenda regular meeting items a park Improvement project 2024 presentation good evening Park Commissioners Paul Kangas inside outside architect IA Inc uh 18601 1 152nd Avenue in Dayton uh tonight we are going to give you an update on the status of the 2025 Park Improvement package um some of the exhibits I'm going to share with you uh are literally hot off the press uh so they weren't available in time for your packet um where did go I don't know I think it's the 2025 dat in PIP they were up yeah I don't okay here we go all right uh so We've joked over the years that uh construction documents get less and less fun to look at uh as you get deeper and deeper into the process and we are in Full Construction documentation and bid pack uh preparation um the plan was and still is to put this out on the street for contractors to bid uh in early March um right now I'm waiting for information from our irrigation designer and some of the civil engineering that's required for storm water management um the three Parks remembering that it's ion Gardens very small project uh PSA 21 which we don't have a name for yet but basically uh the area north and east of Sundance and then potentially um LC Stevens Park phase three although that's a discussion item for you this evening so I'm going to walk you through uh real quickly um I know we have a limited agenda uh time today but um Park service area 21 um the neighborhood park the north half of which we would be developing now the South half to be developed later once that land is acquired uh this set of documents is is at the 95% level we have good understanding of grading the parking all of that's detailed here on the layout plan so as we go through these um there's a demo plan the grading plan the landscape plan the layout plan and then there's five currently five sheets of details for all of the parks um that I'm happy to share with you and these could be sent via email if you wish they just they weren't available at the time of of the packet going out last week so that would be great thank you yeah we're in we're in very good shape uh in your packet I did put together a memo that details some of the bid alternates that we were going to be looking at and you know construction plans I don't know if any of you are in the construction industry but there's a lot of eyes and that need to be dotted and T's that need to be crossed um the detail spreadsheet that the bid form is based off of and then our final estimate is based off and that would be updated as we go but in time for uh bidding and for the council to review those final numbers before we go out to bid uh I work very hard to put alternates in the plans and that's why they're in your packet um it's important to have flexibility uh when the hard bids come back um because it is a municipal project it is a hard or lowo scenario so we have to have good control over that and make sure that we're entering into contracts that we can achieve uh that fall within budget and sometimes that requires uh some manipulation of the alternates to make sure that we can get there um do you have any questions specific to park surface area 21 I can briefly highlight the the included items we still have pickle ball we still have the basketball with the four goals so end and two side goals the uh volleyball court sand volleyball that would have one of the alternates is a concrete edger for maintenance purposes around that we have the playground element here an alternate here is seat walls and Landscaping on the South Side uh and then the third alternate for this site is uh permanent cornhole goals I got kind of a mixed reaction to that but I'm really curious what that actually costs and I already had it drawn and detailed uh from another project so I wanted to include it in the bid documents it's it's really just a small amount of time on my part uh and then you can make an educated decision on whether it's worth it uh the parking lot up here of course uh one change from past projects as we are planning to irrigate this park so we currently plan to irrigate the entire thing except maybe these uh East and West narrowed down areas and I just asked Marty that question today so Marty when I was talking about that these are the two areas in question is is it worth the extra money to irrigate those areas and so uh let's see any questions okay I own Gardens a very simple project uh existing Park uh existing playground EX existing Trails we are adding a small little seating area here overlooking the playground that seating area would have uh the Limestone blocks that we've used on some other projects including LC Stevens Park uh a small amount of landscaping with a small wall um so and some tree plantings um to augment the trees that were put in them by the developer for some reason and I I Can't Tell You Why the developer never put any coniferous trees in this park so some of the screening that was uh planned for the residents never occurred so I currently have those in the bid documents um LC Stevens is the biggest question mark that I have for you tonight you're going to hear I believe three presentations for the new Master Plan I've been advocating um that we should not do some of the planned improvements at LC Stevens Park that were originally planned and it was a big discussion item the last time I stood in front of you was where do the priorities lie your priorities that discussion never went in front of the city council so we still don't have good data on which to base the construction documents specifically the improvements to the Band Shell location and this area is in closest proximity to the Future uh Event Center and some of what will be I assume studied as part of the uh Master planning process I think it's premature to do something here and handcuff the people waiting in the wings here uh as they start to do their work I'm basically giving up work to do that and I'm fine with that I think it's a mistake to build something now when you don't know what else you're building in that area so what do you mean by our meeting stuff didn't go before for the board last month was it it was never put in front of the city council as an agenda item it was take I think that what was expected was you would go with what the park commission had recommended right and it was a breakdown between Marty and I I assumed some things he probably assumed some things but uh putting your comments and your very good feedback from our last meeting together in front of the council never happened so uh we have new Council a few new members um Mr salanic has been an advocate for this bans shell it needs to happen someday I think it does not need to happen now and I'm suggesting that it be postponed until the master planning process is renewed right which goes along with what we had said at our meeting last time was that we wanted to hold off on the band shelter correct and focus on like we're in the I think we in agreement I don't think you're in agreement with some of the council members right which we didn't get that information before where the council wanted us to focus but we have councilman slonik here I am a strong for point of the B shell to get done I mean in my opinion it could have been done last fall the issue that I have here is you know I I brought a contractor before Marty and uh he had some ideas on what to do there and that kind of never materialized uh to me we need that band Shield much nicer than it is before Elizabeth can get any kind of uh music events going at that facility um the issue the main issue that you have is is you never know if you're going to have the the event or not because of weather I mean there's no covered building or covered structure for any kind of a band to play and most 5,000 an uptp uh performers want some sort of a covered facility before they'll play mhm so that's my biggest issue with it is I'd like to see Steven's Park get going a lot faster than it has I mean we've been in my opinion dragging our feet for a year and a half or so oh I think we all agree we lost a year yeah and to me there's just nothing there at Stevens at this stage yet for the residents to enjoy right another alternative idea that the group came up with John specifically was a larger tent temporary for larger environments that the city would actually purchase so we could have covered events there unfortunately that was never brought before the board but we understand that and we can move forward what are your thoughts on it tent large size I know they've been rented before instead of the semi per like triangle thing shaped thing well not a strong proponent of the you're talking over the Bandshell off to the side off to the side for for people to be under people to be under or a band to be under until the master plan can be completed well number one I'm not sure where the master plan is even at the council has talked about not having the uh the $5 million facility there I mean that's a little bit of a a little bit feedback sure um and I don't believe I can't even recall if uh this Council if any of the council has actually seen the master plan well I mean that master plan is probably 78 10 years old probably close to 10 yeah it's 10 years and there's been updates as we've picked off a few pieces and we still have pieces of improvements to LC Stevens that we knew were more for certain and those are reflected in the documents the the picnic shelter and the uh option for the parking lot uh that would support a larger Band Shell are still in the documents and and farther along than the Band Shell component when I'm saying that nothing I'm not saying nothing should be done on LC Stevens as part of the 2025 pip Parks Improvement package but I don't believe I don't believe the Band Shell should be part of that when you're going to be spending significant monies on whoever you choose uh for a park planner and we appreciate your opinion we do the whole group does here and I think my opinion is similar to what this group expressed again I just think it's not we we've looked at a lot of different ideas for Van shells what that means and the cost associated with each of those varies widely and it really needs to be studied in in a great amount of detail related to whatever is going to remain at LC Stevens uh as part of the master plan so we understand we also have a duty to follow what the council wants us to look at and focus on things as well um that being said can we recap some of the stuff we talked about last time as far as the picnic area and stuff so councilman slona can get an idea what we were focused on again not saying that it has to be done but we do understand the band shelter concern and from what I understand that the picnic shelter is like 25 by 25 mhm it's in my opinion that's too small it's 24 by 34 shown here on the screen rectangular with a patio space yeah uh surrounding it 24 by 34 correct that's much better than I read on the uh the minutes I think it was 25 by 25 and it's been 24 by 34 for as long as I can remember I did see uh personally I'd like to see a few more cheap amenities the uh the bean bag concrete bean bag things they're cheap they not that much money some barbecue grills are around that picnic area uh you know the charcoal type thing Post in the ground those are extremely reasonable um we talked about fireplaces too yeah I've seen that some of the changes that we're talking about was uh getting rid of the permanent cornhole expecting that people would bring their own for this parkite we do have it currently in PSA 21 uh it is turned off on a layer um this commission's recommendation was that we explore the location of uh fire pits instead of cornhole spend the money on a some aggregate surfacing and and some Stone seating so those two circular areas there are those revised fire P pits I did keep the wall and fireplace element in there as an alternate might have seen that um I just I want to know what that costs again it's mostly designed um it's my personal bias but I really think that that would be a special element at this location and and allow this uh covered area to be used for a longer amount of time so I think your recommendation was that it might not be worth it I took it upon myself to find out exactly how much it will cost so that we could make an educated decision about that otherwise the plan is is fairly similar the parking lot hasn't changed the circulation hasn't changed although we have a much better idea of how grading and things like that works so uh again we're close on this area we're close on the parking lot uh again awaiting some of that civil work but uh really the the the hole the gaping hole at this point in time is the uh the Bell element so um yeah the next slide was the parking lot that we discussed too right right so it's shown here in context to the so kind of zoom in as we go this shows everything on that west side of the the site another element is the um control gate that henen County requires at the new uh or excuse me the old historic entrance so that's shown here and there's a detail I'm still showing the enlargement for what was previously designed uh for the Bandell area but again I think there's a discrepancy between uh wishes and dollars right so happy to zoom in to any of the details that you want if you have specific concerns uh the other question that I want want to oppos to this commission is the value to you as a commission uh of seeing the actual bid package in a more complete form will you review that in the detail needed to have that be a valuable step because it could potentially delay because we did not have it in your packet this time because this is the first time you're seeing it if you want to see that bid pack next month which is very possible it just delays us probably 30 days in the bid process as opposed to having it go straight to the council more delays but it should have been presented or given to us to review I understand it came in last minute even if it came over email we could have had it tonight correct you're you're I personally in the career I have I review those in depth and comprehend them I think it's important for the city for all of us to see that okay I don't I don't disagree it wasn't intentionally kept from you but these were literally not available until earlier this afternoon so we've been playing catchup trying to get to a point where they were something that could actually be reviewed so I'm happy to share those with you if you were able or willing to take time outside of a meeting if you want it as part of the meeting then would probably be delayed on the actual bid process probably not an issue we trying to hit that mid-march your next meeting is probably March 4 fourth so I'm happy to do whatever you and staff direct me to do uh okay well let's hear from the group if you guys want to see those great details and or if you're good to just get an email about them I don't mean to put you on the spot but it'd be nice to see him I I have no problem though if it's email okay that's what I always going if we could review it on our own before the next and keep things moving fine otherwise we can discuss more with the next one and get them you know whatever I I have no problem with the email or waiting it just doesn't matter either way just I just think keeping the ball moving is the biggest thing sure would the council then have a meeting before mid-march you said was the goal the C yeah the council actually authorizes the bidding and as part of that they would get the bid documents the the detailed final cost estimate that my office puts together uh before it hits the street uh as an actual biddable document and then during that time period while it's out on the street I guess is the term we use um we have the ability to do adenda if needed try to minimize those just from a complicating standpoint you know keep it simple for the contractors simple usually equals better uh pricing but um addenda Are Not Unusual yeah it the question is not to keep you in or out of the loop it's just the process whether it has to be as part of a formal meeting I will travel to any of your locations and walk through the documents if it would be helpful but um I just remember you saying the last time that we met too that you know do we want to do everything really quick or do we want to do it right and so that's right what's sticking in my mind too about making sure that we look over things and consider yeah yeah I agree I would like to see it but I'm fine doing it over email okay I can look at it and just send in anything sure yep that works for me email is fine email okay cool I will forward those to Marty and he can distribute it uh as needed okay um everything is still preliminary until it goes out for bid so don't be surprised if you see some Line work that is still a little harder to read or you know every eye will not be dotted or t crossed yet but the goal of course is to get that done before it goes up I really don't like doing a dead know so make me look bad so uh so that really comes back to the the other question about um the bans show and whether or not this group is willing to make that recommendation that it be paused pending the master planning that's happening or if you want to push forward with what has been designed to date again that proba is not in keeping with what council is expecting my personal opinion is to wait okay eing what theyve said earlier John's idea with the the tent rental in my opinion uh for a short-term solution it would allow Elizabeth to start booking things for this summer and kind of feel it out and see what the appetite is and if we have a really really awesome summer I think that would really mean a lot to the council say oh my gosh we had this much happen this summer so we would cop maybe have this much more I think it just gives you a lot more fuel whereas like it's hard for any of us to gauge what the actual spend is going to be from the community to want to use it so with the tent rental we can just kind of work that into the price of her events rather than having the huge bansel and hoping that everyone's going to come I think ideally because then we could sit here next winter and say okay bansel has to go forward in 2026 absolutely if it goes really well this summer however if she hears this summer like people just don't care well then maybe we just keep doing the tent rentals or maybe not even think you know maybe we just use the space differently then we're just not as financially committed that's my opinion I like what John was saying originally about it just seemed like a good way to be able to do stuff Anoka has like Anoka does their allass reunion every third year and this fall like right by right in downtown inoka they literally rent the pop-up tent get the ban the whole deal and they I asked them afterwards like how do you cash flow this they're like we do fine and all of it is just in the the beer the beer sales that they have that one night for the event covers the tent and so it's pretty easy to bake it into when you're doing weddings or whatever it may be and the band loved it it was easy you knew the event was going to happen no matter what like in my opinion it seems like a good short-term solution and then kind of feel out where we're at going forward I appreciate those comments and to make sure everyone's aware something to have protection over the band shell for summer 2025 would require a temporary solution it won't be even if we were to construct what we've talked about today it won't be ready until late fall so uh some type of temporary solution is is going to be a a need if the goal is to have events that that require it so but we'll be able to gauge how things are going even probably by Midsummer and then we can you know get going so that it would hopefully be correct ready sooner and the updated master plan assuming they move forward with whoever they're interviewing tonight uh should be ready and should better preface those conversations which is what I've been advocating for is let's not and it was talked about at our last meeting don't do it halfway let's do it right whenever we make that commitment yep agreed do it slow do it right so as early as tomorrow you can probably get an email with the PDFs that were part of the presentation tonight if you have any other questions um the spreadsheet has not been completely updated for pricing so that we'll have to wait until we understand some of the ins and outs um I've been double-checking quantities I just need to go through it with a very fine tooth comb prior to that city council meeting coming uh up in March um beyond that getting some irrigation drawings and some storm R management and we we're good to go but that's unfortunately a little bit out of my control okay all right anything else thank you thank Youk you all right item number c Elise Stevens Park okay so oh thanks um Council asked staff to uh put out an RFP to update the master plan U we did that in uh December um we had eight people uh interested in the in the uh project um of which six subsequently put in proposals um between myself and John Cal we um went through those six proposals to eliminate some of the ones that um didn't meet the criteria just to make this uh process a little easier so you don't have to go through everything um so we U settled on three um who are uh here tonight um Damon clber H KGI and MSA um what I'm proposing on doing is they're going to do a presentation then there's a Q&A for you guys after um and then uh they can go into the um audience and then the next one will come up we got one that is going to be online I believe that's HK GI um the respondents are going to be sitting in the the conference room so they don't get any leg up from the previous person and stuff like that so um we will bring them in and what I'd like to from this evening's exercise is a recommendation for for the council uh probably two finalists so the council um have two to interview um if you feel that's the way if there's one that stands out to youread and above or the other two just don't meet whatever then feel free to just nominate the one but it's whatever you guys want to do awesome I'll um so um was so after the presentations there'll probably be some discussion for you guys to go through um whatever your thoughts are so we're going to get these guys from Damon Farber [Music] [Applause] what did he say miss the last okay here probably here is going to be where your main can see it ADV slides okay yeah can move it through there great if you want to move it I and can we just hit the arrow keys to click through um yeah okay great are we free to begin okay well hello everyone thanks for having us um we're we're pleased to be here we just uh spent the whole evening it feels like in Dayton we were having dinner over at Deans and we were over at the the park beforehand and checking out all the amazing growth in Dayton nearby the park so uh thank you for having us uh I'm Chuck Evans uh landscape architect with Damon Farber and speak into this I'm Rachel blasik I'm uh a project manager with Damon and a landscape architect and I think part of this is getting cut off so I wonder if I should zoom out a little bit yeah there we go there we go now we will scroll so we really wanted to spend about 10 minutes telling you a little bit more about our firm uh and then we will dive a little bit deeper into a couple of project examples just to help you understand our experience and draw some parallels between p past work and your project and then we'll talk uh a little bit further about our understanding of your project at LC Stevens Park and finish up with our approach curious collaborative and caring and uh we just wanted to give you an overview of where we're going to take you here uh this evening uh so we are a firm solely uh made up of Landscape Architects we're based in Minneapolis we've opened a second office in Madison we're 21 employees we've been in business for 43 years I've been at the firm since 2001 so almost uh I guess what feels like 25 years um and Rachel how many years have you been at the frm uh 13 yeah so between the two of us uh you know a lot of longevity we've got a great culture at the office uh a great boss it's a good company to work for and we do you know really amazing work all over the Twin Cities region all over Minnesota all over Wisconsin and uh our work takes us uh even further than that too so we do Park and open space system planning we do Park Master planning we do programming of parks we do Trail planning uh we Implement a lot of our work so it's not all master planning we do construction Administration so you name it we've done it uh with Park planning design and implementation um so I think you're in good hands if you were to select our firm and move forward we um would bring forth a lot of knowledge um we also have partnered with h&u um for cost estimating on our team we' uh they're a company that's been around for over 40 years and they really specialize in doing cost estimating for uh public open space and parks and personally we've worked with them since 2016 on numerous projects like Waterworks and rale common so we have a lot of experience working back and forth with them from like early concept all through construction it's really helped us to stay on budget and for our projects to come in and meet it deliverables too that's right so we do have a chunk of fee in our proposal just for h&u construction to help us with that cost estima and then we did not include fees at this time for a civil engineer we didn't feel that was necessary for this Master Plan update but if it did become necessary we would ask for additional services to bring them on board to address what that need is at that time um so we just wanted to show you some of the different agencies that we've worked with the Minneapolis Park and W board the city of minetonka the city of excels here we've done a lot of work with Dakota County Three Rivers Park District city of Northfield the city of Maple Grove City of Ramsey just across the river to the north has been a client and you know up in warro or Silver Bay I think what we want to get across with this slide is that we've worked with cities big and small um so plenty of work with Minneapolis Park and wreck and they're a big client of ours but we also go out and work with communities just like yourselves here in Dayton so um and and you know on in these pictures you see a variety of scales right something a little bit more urban here this is Central Park in Maple Grove but then something with a lot more rural character this is Grahams Park up in Sherburn County north of you here up by Zimmerman um this was some planning work we did in uh uh Silver Bay and then this is Spring Lake Regional Park down in Scott County so doing a little bit deeper dive into two different projects I'll talk about Spring Lake Park and Rachel talk about exceler Commons and the reason we thought we'd dive a little deeper on this one is because in 2006 another firm did a master plan for this Waterfront Zone on um on Spring Lake and there's a bigger portion of the park that I'll show you in a second but the Waterfront Zone hadn't been developed for going on almost 20 years and so they finally had the funding and they picked it up and they brought it to us and we were basically charged with implementing master plan so somebody else had had set the vision out there it had been on the books for a long time and we had to figure out what was going to work from that plan and what wasn't so you can see the plan we implemented over here on the right is a little is certainly different but there's a lot of similarities there was a lot of Waterfront amenities that we implemented uh parking was brought in so people could use and access the lake the building was not yet constructed the funding will come forward in the future for that but we did take that through schematic design so we had an architect on our team we recited where that building should go to take advantage of the lake in this case um and I think it's just interesting how there's parallels between you know picking up somebody else's Master planning work and and executing that vision and figuring out what was going to work and what wasn't um so the Waterfront Zone piece that we implemented is this little area down here it's a similar in size ironically to LC Stevens Park uh around 20 acres in size but the larger Park itself we were connecting to a trail system up here that is over I think 200 acres in size and that's all surrounded by neighborhoods down in Scott County so this is a Down by Mystic Lake Casino to give you a little bit more context here's a finished photo showing the lakefront Trail you get a glimpse of the fishing pier off in the distance and then as I scroll down to some more photos of the project you see additional Waterfront amenities we did this great over look to take advantage and get those people that aren't lucky enough to have a cabin right on the lake now they can come to this public park and get up close to the water and look out and enjoy that amazing view uh we put in this kayak excuse me launch here there's a picnic grounds up up above from that a fishing pier was added and uh extensive trails and I'll let Rachel jump in all right so we wanted to talk about excels or Commons too because this is a project that we started back in 2017 we started with a master plan and it actually went through very similar for Community engagement for what we've proposed for Elsie Stevens and then we had an open housee and we had strategic conversations with city council and it led to priorities but what it really did too is it led to a phasing plan that then we've been able to implement over time since then and we'll show you some projects that we've been able to take this master plan and again we used a cost estimator along the way to really help phase this project and so we've been able to now phase it over time and so you can see here on this we've implemented four phases so far and we're in the we're actually in the future phases right now where we're doing some concept planning for some of these other projects so we took the master plan it's just a really good it was a road map and it's again a similar size Park as LC Stevens here and the first project that we were able to then impl from this master plan and this was based on community the priorities that we heard from the community as well as from the city itself was that the Pavilion was the highest priority and also then Drew people to the site so this was the first phase back in 2019 that was built and it now hosts a lot of concerts you can have weddings there sort of how you have your Amphitheater as your that's been implemented that brings people to the site and then for the second phase and this is just you can see the empathy on the back background there this brings more Community amenities but it's um a concession area we also did an event lawn in the space we worked with a civil engineer then to make it usable throughout the year as well as worked with an architect to really site the building and make it feel like it was amongst the park and that it fit in with the community context so those were two examples we've done lots of other we've been still working on accessive common sense in but we really want to talk about your Park too and how excited we are we have a colleague that grew up just down the road from here so she's been very excited to tell us she's the one that told us to go to Deans tonight yeah and so it's a unique challenge too and that we're taking the master plan and then taking you've already invested a lot into this park and so we would want to make sure to take the Investments that you've already done and then the master plan that you've already done but weave it in to figure out what the priorities are and create a a new master plan with you yeah I think some of the things that came out to us and we're certainly open to understanding what your goals are but what came out to us in the RFP was that rural character is important a high quality of life is important you want this to be a a destination that actually draws people to your community so we want to hear more about that um phasing and cost control I think will be really important that's why we put h&u on our team they know construction sequencing they know costs in the construction Market they know you know proper contingencies and how to build those into a project so we want to bring you good value we want to develop this in a way that is Affordable and we can hit your budgets and hit your targets for what you want to further invest into this park um you know so we understand those things but there's plenty I'm sure that we don't understand and we look forward to learning more as we go forward but um it was fun to get out to the site today understand just how great of a site it is on the river um I mean it's really an awesome spot and I love how you've already made the connectivity over to the neighborhood that's just ballooning in size there to the South that's pretty impressive all the the rooftops that have gone up so there's a lot of Park users built in I think right there and then researching it further we know that the West Mississippi River Parkway um or Bikeway Trail I forget the exact name that's going to give the ability for any of these people in the neighborhood to one day jump on that trail and head all the way into Minneapolis to the Grand rounds which is amazing that connectivity we're actually working on a project now to complete the missing link of the Ground grand rounds in Minneapolis so for decades there's always been this Missing Link through the industrial area of Minneapolis that we're working on um so even though you know this might feel a little bit like a neighborhood park it's a community park you want to draw people in I think you will be drawing people in from when these Regional trails are built and that's really exciting and the river is certainly something to celebrate so just a little bit further uh understanding on our part of of LC Stevens Park and I think I'll finish or we'll finish with part of our approach and I this was in our cover letter if you recall but our I can't seem to get that to stay where I want it there our firm's approach really is based on three things curious collaborative and caring so obviously starting a project getting to know you we would be very curious and we would would want to tailor our approach to what your needs are uh we're a collaborative office we work with a lot of other design firms but also plenty of clients and then with each other in the office um and we'll work closely with our partners at h&u they're great people we get along well with them so that's a great collaborative relationship so um and then we care deeply about the work we do uh almost to a fault so um we want to do a great job for you we want to build a relationship we would love to get off on a on the right foot do a wonderful master plan and have it lead to another project with you um so that's our goal and um we hope that you find that we brought a good value in our fee proposal and uh we hope that you know our experience came through in our proposal and in our presentation um anything you wanted to add to that Rachel well we do have a lot of experience with what we think of community destinations but a question that Chuck and I just kept coming up was like what does it mean for you to have a destination Park you mentioned that in the RFP and so that's something that we were curious about on on your end and what does that mean for here for you guys yeah I think we would reserve the rest of the time now for conversation and you know the question that Rachel just asked or if you have questions of us maybe we can uh answer those free now from one perspective I would say speaking as a parent I'm constantly looking for a cool new park to go to in the summer and uh there are like listicles out there of the great parks to the destination parks to go to in the Twin Cities so I think it's being on a list like that for me cool that's great I would add that we've done a lot of great destination parks and we're proud of those and there there's plenty of iconic Parks from Waterworks and Downtown Minneapolis to uh Baker near I mean Baker Regional Park which is at Three Rivers Park District you know we did this amazing playground renovation uh Train park down in Lacrosse Wisconsin is geared towards kids on the autism spectrum and anybody with disabilities and that has become a huge success down in that community so I don't even think we included that anywhere in here but um yeah feel free to look that up but yeah that's a great yeah great goal to have and we're also a very very intergenerational Community as most communities are but like it's not just young folks here too so we want to make sure that it feels like a community where all agents can come and enjoy the nature I think that's why the we mention nature so much too yeah so I do have a question for you I was just wondering if you could help me understand why you didn't add any civil engineering were you guys given a master plan was there enough on there or what was the whole reasoning for not you know we you always try to align your your your your scope of work and your work plan with what you think the client needs and wants and what that was listed in the RFP and we just felt like updating the master plan in a way that that works with what you've already implemented maybe looks at what was planned in the past and tries to make everything work going forward at this early stage doesn't necessarily require a civil engineer as Landscape Architects we have the ability to look at topography and grading on a preliminary basis when you get to construction we would absolutely want to have an engineer on board even though when you go past Master planning I would say in schematic design you would want to have a civil engineer on board but we've done plenty of Master plans without Engineers on the team okay sure thank you I was just curious about that the other thing I was wondering about was the 10 week timeline when I was looking through your proposal it showed 10 weeks and that seems kind of quick to me and so I was just wondering is that your typical timeline for for a park this size I mean we can go on a 10-week pace or we could slow down and go at a preferred Pace that you would want to work at it really is dependent on your needs and the process we want to go through if we want to have a series of meetings if we want to do more than one public open house um that's all flexible and negotiate negotiable it's just a scenario that we put out there right as a what would you say the average time takes for yeah you know there's no two projects that are alike really so they're so variable um it it's dependent too on how much Community engagement um you do and like how often throughout the stage and when we we submitted a question about communic Community agent because we were wondering how much you wanted to do and we heard back one open house so that is a more a faster timeline then because you do want to then if it's built throughout the project be able to then respond and interpret um but often if it's just working with your team it can go a little bit faster if we have a good you know connection and be able to make decisions but if you involve more meetings or surveys that has a longer wait time just to allow people to respond then too so that can elongate the schedule a little bit more yeah thank you I just was curious about that sure part um about bringing people to it destination wise we already host a couple events down there as simple as moving in the park or uh the Lions group has a bigger larger event down there with bands and things like that but making sure it has enough for everybody to do right yeah and it's a great view some people have said a million dollar view well that's true when the sun's up it's nice to highlight that but at night as well you know seeing about things that we could do and again um somebody the example he gave about a noa's um High School reunion that they do every so often you know we'd like to have know family reunions there or possibly weddings or skies the limit really yeah I think what you're getting at is really the programming of the park and that's the conversations we need to have with you all to understand what you might think is appropriate and then also having that open house so after we have put maybe what collectively we would all think is appropriate for the park we're still going to get ideas from the community at that open house and maybe need to go back and refine the plan cuz they thought of something we didn't think of so you're right in the fact that you need to have a nucleus of activity to draw people there to use the space if it's just a playg ground or just a dock on the river that's only going to attract a certain contingent of people right and everybody's really after something different so you can overdo it but I think you need to have like 10 different things to do in a park so you have that nucleus of activity and you know thinking about seasonality too in the park you know and having it you know had winter uses as well as summer uses and spring and fall too John or Brad do you have any no I don't have any further questions I think these guys covered it I we've talked about pretty much everything at this place so I mean we've gone from putting in restaurants to I don't know if you guys are familiar with Champlain now has uh Mississippi Crossings oh yeah we just actually we just like that's a nice looking and now with Jensen's and all the different like so would it ever become that you know there's plans for Dayton to someday become a 50,000 uh have a population of 50,000 people which is hard to Fathom when you still see signs that say 2500 or 2700 we know it's not that right now we know it's grown quite a bit but my point is like with where it's going so the scalability right of like what does this look like for a 10 20 30 40y year plan and we've literally talked about I mean we spent so much time on kayaks and all the things that you can do from a river standpoint right and then thinking about okay but the reality is that at Miss in Champlain you've got good water depth here you've got essentially zero water depth so like most boats don't even go through that area so just all the different little things I mean we've literally in the last year year and a half we've exhausted a lot of time on this and so there's a ton of great ideas and that's where um I love the the open house with the the community I think it's great but on the flip side we almost go backwards again because then there's so many conversations that we've already had and you just have those conversations again cuz 10 people are going to come up and say why don't we have a huge Boat Boat Launch well we've got one foot of water there lot of the middle of the summer or two feet of water whatever it is like you can't bring a boat through some of those spots so just that kind of stuff um I'm fascinating to see more from you guys and what else you can do it's um cuz I feel like that we've had so many conversations but well and Brad I wouldn't uh I wouldn't those are great points and and sometimes the simplest answer is the best too you know sometimes we Overlook the fact of how powerful a trail is in a park and I know there are some Trails but a variety of trails whether it's an a non-paved trail or a paved trail or a trail through a prairie or a trail that leads over to the river or wood chip path down by the river everybody goes for a walk right or everybody walks their dog and I think more than 50% of families have dogs and you know that's what gets me into my neighborhood park uh is my dog wanting to go for a walk so sometimes those simple things too if we execute them well that gets people using our spaces Outdoors did you guys see how LC Stevens now connects through into that neighborhood and then that neighborhood essentially butts up to the next neighborhood but it's not done yet well one of our projects for this year is to get that to connect into the next neighborhood which connects out to Pine View which feeds all the way into Elm Creek which feeds into the whole city and that connectivity is awesome right cuz then people can go on a safe bike ride with their young kids right and not have to cross so many streets and have you know delineated crosswalks and safe tunnels and yeah so that's our whole thought is that LCC is kind of like the kickoff right where you could potentially at some point go from Champlain or Brooklyn Park through Maple Grove up into Dayton and make a whole day of it with your family where you could do all the different stuff that's kind of what we're working on to the connectivity and I think that I don't know we'd ever go past LC Stevens they' probably be the furthest west to North Point maybe we'd go further at some point but at least for now because of how it connects through the neighborhoods and connects to different Parks like that's kind of we just got one little bit we got to finish off this summer but okay yeah Three Rivers bought that property up along river further by Oldtown Dayton that they're looking at a bike trail and we got the property next door so connecting all that you when you were thinking about your ideas too and that you have so many great ideas one thing that we can help with is apply spatial planning to that to say like well how big is that you know programming piece how big is a destination playground how big is a neighborhood and uh an exercise that we just did up in Silver Bay they're planning a new park there in their downtown area and they have a steering committee is we brought you know size pieces of various different planning things that they had all thrown out ideas for you know how big would a food you know food truck Court be how big would a place be they host a lot of events there with bouncy houses how big would that need to be and then they were able to lay them out on the size plan to scale and it really helped see like what could actually fit here what you would want next each other and it allowed it to see like some collaboration towards of there was consensus on what people wanted and what could fit in this park and lead us forward yeah there's good tools when you're doing that programming phase to understand what's going to fit well together and what what wants to be next or adjacent to another use in the park too you know there's there's some magic there to figure out well we appreciate the questions uh I think we're approaching our time do we have a little bit more time um or I'm trying to keep on schedule if that's fine I I think this is a happy spot and we really appreciate the opportunity thank you for uh advancing our proposal into the interview process thanks for listening to our presentation and asking good questions and we look forward to the opportunity thank you thank you for coming thank you and Martin thanks for helping arrange everything okay no problem uh our next candidate is online um it's hkg Joy do we have the ability to hear them right now just sorry okay should be on are we unmuted are they unmuted somebody's talking um can you guys hear us I don't know do you see something I'm saying I mean we should be able to hear him right it's on do you need a griss or something you check the audio that you're connected to seems yeah maybe looks like they're asking about head is audio not working folks online can't hear us it seems yeah I do you know how that's fine we got time I don't know if there water bottles anywhere I could grab them or even a drink is there water bottle K can have drinking P thank you Marty guy I am thank you wow you didn't have to give up your own watert there in a minute can you go ahead and speak to see if we can hear you thanks for setting this up Marty again thanks for setting these up for us problem not a problem let me just this do you want to T than see if he's got got a new phone and my working anym cuz I can't get into the indicator and so I didn't I didn't know that I was going to be AE tonight I did not prop I do like the different kind of kayak canoe ramps I've seen okay yeah been it's way off in a rock that you're like trying to get out that is very true I liked that band sh they showed that was like not really a shell but it was like red I was like that's see me we haven't seen something like that they say it's not working I don't know how much that would cost can we hear that now working than we can't hear that well we got a yeah somebody says audio is now working but we still can't hear them talking to us are they muted that's I was going to say if you go to the participants and see you have to Grant people the ability to talk right it's a webinar mode attendees it's it's in the other tab yeah he said see if we can just have call allow to talk hover over G Griffin oric hover over can you see hover over uh Griffin you can allow to talk oh and then take outfit yep okay now now go ahead and talk I see their mic doing something but our TV volume turn it was at like 70 or 80 okay if worse comes to worse we'll just try doing it that way okay okay byee so he's trying to talk he not it's not picking him up he Zach just said have call hang on I got one more thing to try here we go it's always the last thing yeah I'll try again am I coming through wi awesome we just need to do that for Brian and we should be good to go yeah you need to do it for Bri as well oh you need to do it for the other ones so go back to it participants how didum up at the top where it says stop share just like push it there you go left and then Brian the Brian you guys there yep what about the third one can you hear is the third one is that this one I think they're good now yeah so then you need to do the third one they can mute themselves if they want the third one is a member of the public oh okay that one I think com St do you want to is Griffin Griffin and Brian are both on okay yeah yeah this is Brian everyone hi I'm Brian all right um and then I can just scroll through your presentation as you need if you just want me to move to the next slide just tell me when yeah that's that sounds great yeah I appreciate that um I I don't have camera if that's all right I mean I I think we'll just stick to what's on the screen my face will show up on the presentation you'll see that in a little bit same with Griffin so um should we get started or yep M please well let's do that uh first of all thank you very much for having us uh here tonight in the virtual world uh to present uh um and talk with you a little bit about this project we're really excited to be here with me tonight's um Griffin Dempsey with um design tree say hi Griffin hey everyone yep thanks for getting us uh all cluded on the audio appreciate it yeah this is great well let's get going let's uh go to the next slide just this is a quick outline of what our presentation is tonight just to talk about the team and then run through some of our experiences I think you've seen that as a part of our uh proposal that we had talk then we want to talk a little bit about you know our approach to the project uh our general work plan and schedule overall just kind of conclude with uh why the H KGI uh team next slide uh H KGI with the leag consultant we're a a firm out of Minneapolis with uh roughly 22 folks now uh mix of planners and Landscape Architects and we've been doing um everything from planning Urban Design landscape architecture and park planning uh in the Upper Midwest since about 1982 we have a satellite office in Vernon County Wisconsin uh I'm Brian Hardis I'm the president of the company and uh with we'll talk a little bit about some of the team members Sarah Evenson couldn't make it tonight but um uh she'll be the project manager for the project next slide awesome and I'll take this one yeah appreciate it I'm Griffin Dempsey I'm a professional civil engineer uh with design tree engineering we're a multidisciplinary firm we have civil engineering electrical land surveying mechanical structural and sustainability Services we have a robust portfolio of uh Municipal design work uh not only in site development but also as City Engineers um we have extensive Municipal k12 and highered master planning experience um couple places name a few city of Rogers Alexandria St Cloud and the Minnesota state um higher education system uh hkg is actually based out of the same uh office as our Minneapolis team so we work really closely with them on Capital Improvement projects of uh this type of size and scope um we'll look to provide this team uh with assistance through uh cost estimation uh assistance withth design of the site circulation through the multiple phases and helping vet out uh the feasibility of any items that may require future engineering design great thanks griin here's our our team uh as I mentioned Sarah Evon she's the uh going to be the project manager for this I'll be the Principal in charge and Aid in some of the design aspects of the project Hannah schmidtz is a landscape designer with us very skilled in uh design graphics and the visualization piece which I'll talk about as part of our components of the master planning process and then Amy Hackett who's developed a lot of the master plan documentation and Graphics but also the community engagement materials that we think are really important as a part of this effort uh in terms of community outreach and communicating ideas to the public and key stakeholders next H KGI is a broad net of services uh for this project in particular obviously kind know multimodal planning Park design and park planning way finding and signage overall site design and Urban Design for key Park features and Community engagement um we'll kind of integrate all those throughout the overall piece of this project um we' work in in the Northwest Metro quite a bit uh communities like River and oo we've been a part of for a number of projects there um carrick's Landing is just getting underway along the Mississippi River right now uh Andrews Park in champlin's a great community park that we help renovate some of the core facilities at a few years back um in addition of uh other splash pads and and other key Parks uh like Rogers and St Michael we've done a number of parks in Maple Grove as well but they tend to be more on the full scale athletic side so um didn't necessarily include them here but another another close neighbor as well additionally a number of projects along the Mississippi River uh through the Twin Cities area a large scale Master plans for the Minneapolis Park and Recreation board with the River Gorge master plan and the above the Falls master plan as well as the entire River Corridor through the city of St Paul we worked on what was called the Great River passage and helped identify all the key attributes uh for Riverfront related recreation use in the city of St Paul that was a big master plan uh about 10 or so years ago that we helped uh formulate so a lot of Riverfront experience a lot of community park scale experience next slide you know our methodology and approach that we use for a lot of these projects uh really boils down to our four core values as a firm collaborate listen explore and create uh the collaboration part is really just to help interject a range of different perspectives and ideas about projects and to that end it's our ability to listen to different clients and stakeholders throughout so that they're really well heard and understood through the process and then we can take that information use it to kind of characterize the different Explorations that we'd have for ideas uh for different uh options for uh Community scale Park planning and then be able to create these as a real uh implementable Solutions uh as we uh develop into that you know that next phase of what this park Master planning wants to become next slide you know we focus a lot on collaboration um while we're virtual tonight a lot of us uh you can see the center image here we do a lot of virtual collaboration as well but I'm I'm kind of an old analog guy and do a lot of drawing and design uh on paper and in person and I help kind of uh lead a lot of the design efforts within our firm and I'm really excited about that this opportunity here to collaborate with staff and the Parks Commission about uh kind of revisioning uh the park itself and and better understanding what that wants to become next Slide the next few slides here really are sort of a encapsulation of some of the project work we thought was pretty relevant to Showcase um for LC Stevens Park here so let's just run through these next slide um you know in general we've been working uh as a firm since 1982 a lot of Park Master planning work um skilled in the ideas of analysis and and really understanding what's there on the ground we do a lot of Park system planning and asset management related work to a number of different parks and park communities and help us better understand uh the connection between improvements that happened today and how do we plan for uh long-term success for the park and understand reinvestment and prioritization this project in particular is targeted for about a s to n month process we can talk about that as we get to the schedule at the end but we know this is uh anticipating some construction next season and we want to make sure that the foundation for this plan is set to deliver a number of different phasing aspects um as needed by by the funding that's available um and then in addition to that it's our community engagement approach and we'll talk about that when we get into the uh outline and the structure of the work plan next slide this project uh toson County Park master plan is a Dakota County Park uh it's in uh Southern um well well it's in West St Paul it's a a um kind of a community but a larger scale Regional Park one of the smallest in in uh Dakota County system but really a natural resource B Park based park with a lot of key amenities that are right around the main Lodge or the main building area there um this was a master plan that we did in 2018 and then in the last two years worked with the county on a schematic design package for eight different Improvement areas that included a variety of different Consultants everything from a pollinator prominade and a dayit stream uh to a number of different um uh Trail components uh and additional Bridges and overlooks to expand the the circulation throughout the park I work with Sarah on the Sarah was the project manager for this project and uh it'll be launching into construction documents for that pollinator prominade daet stream piece from Thompson Lake down to the South there next slide additionally uh a project that's currently underway right now is the the implementation of the mieville ravine Park Reserve in Dakota County we did the master planning for this large scale Regional Park and then now we are working with Griffin and his group on implementation of some Key Trail Head pieces to that that include a a waterfront access point to the Canon River additional Trail Crossings and and some amenities to help bolster the trail head facility but all with a very light touch uh in this area knowing that a lot of this is in kind of floodplain area in really limited um areas in which we can work down there to create um the opportunities they need to have for the recreation work with the the uh tubers and the canoes and kayaks as well as a trout fishermen in this area great project next slide another great partnership here with design tree this is South Valley Park in imrove Heights more of a community scale Park big playground uh Recreation uh building a plaza space area that recently opened uh last uh fall um you can see the combination of the visualization work we did for the conceptual design and then led into the detail design and there's a grand opening of the playground and and the park use there today a lot of topographic change in this area and understanding how we can get Ada Ada access to and from the different uh levels and locations especially to the the playground components and access to the building and Gathering ears next slide this one I wanted to include uh just because of the number of different components that are a part of this more traditional Urban scale Park here in Rochester Soldiers Field park but uh that we let a a really large multi-disciplinary team that included Aquatics and architecture as well as uh some detailed cultural resource components for this um also had uh nature play components enhanced uh traditional playground aspects as well as some quarts and uh some of the key pieces around the aquatics facility itself next slide Spring Brook Nature Center uh obviously another kind of light touch piece um a nature play component here those really unique and cool Willow huts and the ability to work with programming staff out of the Nature Center to develop some unique play components next slide Grahams spark here really fun reuse of existing on-site materials to develop some really cool and unique Play features sort of a blend of uh contemporary um uh say more nature play based components that are more vendor suppli but then also the ability to create these really unique cool Play features that hearken back to some of the Birchwood landscape that's up there today next slide Oxo is another great one I work with Sarah this is a very popular Regional destination um in Olstead County they're a great client of ours um uh the relationship with the the the schools that kind of surround the Rochester area and all the traffic that this Nature Center sees led to $5 million of improvements in this location and and created a new whole entry experience to the Zolman the Zolman zoo and the Nature Center and really a lot of great details here that garadar fence that you see there is sort of emblematic an old Swedish fence and uh some of the historic ties to that particular site uh there in particular um with those really unique details of the architecture and and the fence itself next one another one in Olstead County really great little uh Amphitheater setting that we created at Chester Woods Park this is just up the toe of the slope from the more steeper Bluff down to the lake and there's some trail access through those uh Oak rows but this is in a restored Savannah and Prairie landscape and just kind of creating an outdoor education space maybe a small performance space at the same time with that really naturalized backdrop next slide I don't know if you're familiar with Elk River and River Jaz common more of a traditional setting along the the Mississippi River right in the downtown that really packs in a lot of people it's great for programming and activities uh we designed all of the the site components here kind of cascading down the the hillside with a focus towards that stage and you can see all the the liveliness that comes with the performance venues and how that activates that space on weekend nights with the concert series next slide another one here over in Stillwater this is on um on the St Croy River this was another old uh the iple pro properties essentially uh it's called Lumberjack Landing now but it it's a really long narrow piece along the St Croy River um the city is working on re repurposing the existing house on that site and then we work to create some Ada accessible access down towards the still down towards the the St Cy River and providing an opportunity for canoe and kayak launch and then sort of renovating uh some of the garage space there into that open air structure that you see that's just off to the right next slide K EX Landing this one I mentioned earlier this is under construction right now here in oo to provide that water access connection uh down to the Mississippi River working with the DNR and a number of issues related to bounce along the river and the River Front itself and then how do we still create that space for the water access and water viewing and next slide lakeef Front Park and Prior Lake combination of larger Regional destinations they hold a major concert event here during the summer um and looking at program space for that as well as the community park scale opportunities for uh large scale playgrounds other courts and other activities and then organizing some better access down the hillside towards uh the lake big piece to this you can see the combination of the master plan graphic and the visualizations next last one here I think is uh the one over in St Croy uh County Wisconsin eer blufflands this is on the opposite side of St Croy River a unique site um some interesting pieces about connectivity and connection and preservation of unique Landscapes how do we work with sort of EX exception properties and and navigate uh transportation and access related issues through here but sort of setting the foundation or a framework for potential future improvements with this master plan next so I'll just quickly run that's kind of an a an overview of a lot of the relevant work we thought for a part of this let me just quickly touch on the approach and work plan um you know for us next slide for us it's really understanding uh the core aspects of what's out there today what really works well what wants to be reimagined um how does those uh early phases then think about uh reacting to potential opportunities that um may be new uh from the past master plan we need to understand that and and talk through that with um Parks uh staff the Parks Commission uh other elected officials in the broader community and understand what are the questions we really want to ask as a part of that essentially you know what are non-starters what are what are open windows for others to investigate uh helping that develop that strong knowledge of the overall site and what that is we'll utilize our deep knowledge for Park assessment Rehabilitation to help tell that story and then the master plan itself will focus on implementation strategies uh in order to really maximize dollars and provide the best value for the city next just quickly here to highlight some of the key tasks that we work through in our work plan typically begins with that understanding what exists and really layering in the analysis work that we do upfront um evaluation of the existing elements that have been designed understanding past conversations about what's worked well and other opportunities for improvement meeting through a sequence here of City staff and then conducting what we think is like this series of uh consecutive joint meetings with the council Planning Commission and Parks Commission heading forward um that I think is a topic for conversation about how you want to see that go in this first phase then we would have some online engagement with the broader public and key stakeholders uh to provide that synthesis of the information and allow questions about what opportunities do they see in the future under a framework of you know what is available next slide after that it's kind of a two-step process of exploring the possibilities that we'd have for the site so with that we would develop two to three cost or two to three concept ideas with highle cost estimates for that test those with again that that um broader staff subcommittee uh the city council Planning Commission Parks and Rec commission and then be able to have an online after that sort of test went through edit and refine for a on online open house that would immediately follow a public uh meeting where we kind of uh unveil the these design ideas to the community and be able to take a little bit more feedback after all of that is done we we kind of combine all the the public feedback and the elected and and uh appointed feedback to develop a preferred plan and run through that a cycle of of review and Analysis again both with a a presentation at a public meeting and and an online component last slide and then from there it's really seeking approvals of the overall master plan reviewing that with the subcommittee and then bringing back to the Parks Commission for their review and approval or recommendation and then taking that to the to the city council as well so I think the next slide then is about the schedule and next one here and you can kind of see how that outlays um depending upon meeting sequence and and how rapidly or how robust you know we want to host some of the community engagement events or online pieces we could short certainly shorten the schedule a little bit um but sometimes the meeting sequence dictates that so we wanted to provide a little bit of breathing room for that in the schedule so we said seven and 9 months but at the other hand we also recognize the ability and and the desire to get some of the improvements going in the park and uh we can certainly work with you to sort of expedite that time frame as long as you know it works with the sort of rhythm of how we see the engagement process and you all see the engagement process going next slide so IAS uh just to kind of quickly conclude here um you know we have a really deep experience of large scale Parks projects both developed that we're looking to either renovate or retrofit and and undeveloped new spaces that need a vision and really a strong understanding of Riverfront adjacent parks in their surrounding context the natural resources that come with being adjacent to a great asset like the Mississippi River and how we integrate that with our design and then you know one of the ten as I mentioned before is listening to the needs of clients and stakeholders throughout this entire process and being able to synthesize that feedback and towards a shared Vision uh for the future and that shared Vision really must be realized by plans that lead to successful implementation and and we want to be able to leverage all the existing assets that are out there and respond to a logical phasing and construction sequencing and how this is set up based on the desires that uh you all have for seeing this come to life and what available funding is there and how does it all match budget and and we've got a really strong benchmarking of publicly bid projects or even quoted projects over the last five years that we use and and Griffin uses to help demonstrate how we uh can tie these to an overall project budget next slide that is it yes thank you so with that I just want to say again thank you for uh the opportunity here tonight apologies for not being being there in person but really happy to share uh with you our our project work and talk with you more about this and and um here to answer any questions you have thank you does anybody have questions for okay I have one go ahead Mar um did you guys actually you go out and visit the site it's to I have not been to the site physically other than the Google map tour and the review of all the background documentation that Martin has provided to us today um Griffin I don't know if you've been to the site as a part of this or not yet but I I feel like I've got a good pulse of where things stand from what I can see from from street view and but honestly that's our first step is to hit the ground running with a tour of that site and better understand with either staff or the Parks Commission about what components are uh really sacred which ones and what areas we really want to investigate deeper and I honestly I don't know how much conversation you've had with the broader Community about this and if that's more of a starting point as well we we sort of characterize this as the ability to you know understand what questions we should ask of the community if if we're down a path let's say on some design intent and is that still the vision well let's make that known and if if we're not how far open do we uh ask the community about different ideas that they may want to see here so okay thank you okay that's all I don't have any questions we're good okay thank you very much thank you thank you for your time this evening you yeah if there's any questions on the overall uh scope or schedule of that let us know and we're happy to work through or edit or revise any of that based on your needs thank you very much all right thank you thank you thank you are we discussing at the very end your thoughts I do believe so on the top for hour feel [Applause] bad hope be there's more of you than there is a BU stand up here to move it or do we need to be in the microphone do you want us in the microphone or can you hear us otherwise stand in I think you need to be on the microphone cuz we're recording okay okay perfect there is another one here though that's all I know the night's getting late already for you guys so we'll kind of start here um we're pretty excited to be here tonight um we're MSA Professional Services we've been working with you all on some projects already and we did bring the whole team um because I thought it was important to make sure that we showed up to show you the depth of our company as well so we are mostly located in the Upper Midwest we have 17 offices just shy 500 people we have a diverse uh group of um professionals from our buildings group to our Mobility or Transportation group our Public Works group on the municipal side Our Land Group which is a lot of us here with landscape architecture site development Parks and Recreation waterfronts and which one say our water group storm water waste water portable water that group as well so we have quite the depth of full services within the company and that's why we have the team here tonight which will introduce all of us so I am rain Gardner I'm a professional engineer um kind of the principal in charge with the team I've been working with Marty on the uh Dayton Water Trail the uh ELC Stevens canoe kayak launch and then as well as the uh Crow Mississippi Confluence boat launch project that is about to kick off this week so pretty excited about that um but here just with my diverse background I specialize in parks recreation and waterfronts as well as I have a background in Municipal so a lot of streets utilities working with communities to really make sure projects come together um and that's kind of how I got into the parks and rec side of things but I will turn over to Dan to introduce himself hi everybody thanks for um uh the opportunity to interview I'm Dan Williams I'm a landscape architect I'm principal landscape architect in MSA so I'm like Dad I guess I'm the old guy in the group so I've been working in uh the profession of landscape architecture for almost 40 years now and I've worked all across the country and in other countries I'm a uh kind of the lead on the waterfronts as well as Park and wreck so I do a lot of um that type of work as well and I've written a lot of um documents I'm an editor for publication for um the marina industry as well but my enthusiasm is in all types of recreational work especially parks I don't know if we everybody wants to introduce themselves we'll go that route and then I'll jump back on sure good evening everyone I'm Claire stickler I'm a planner with MSA I also worked with rain and our team on the Dayton Water Trail project uh got to kayak the river in November of uh I think it was 2022 that was super fun we didn't fall in it was very cold um but I'm a planner here in our um St Paul office I've been with MSA for six years um working all types of uh Community engagement comprehensive planning Parks and Recreation planning um throughout the state of Minnesota um hi I'm Elanor I'm landscape architect so I'll be assisting Dan I've got my background is primarily in parks and wreck uh in the Minnesota and Wisconsin area and um yeah it's yeah it's exciting evening Christian moing civil engineer I will be assisting with the engineering feasibility constructibility reviews um I'm also working on the crow Mississippi Confluence project as well as the the kayak launch so um some continuity there all right we got the the whole team in here so of course uh we have uh uh a lot of other individuals that are on going to be on the project and I think it's on the breakdown of our um fee for the project so we have uh several Landscape Architects on staff and again like rain mentioned we how we always say One-Stop shop we got everything from architectures PL planning down through all MEPS in the engineering side structural so we're here for you we can help with cost estimating budgeting phasing making buildable projects that's the main goal you want to have something that's affordable and buildable so how we go through Master plans is um you've probably seen this already tonight for us it's a three-step process the first phase is inventory and Analysis so it's all that data G Gathering kickoff meetings talking with stakeholders getting um to know the community and what you want in your facility because it's your facility it's not ours we're not designing something for us to glorify being a landscape architect we're designing for what you want in your Park and how you're going to use it so uh the left- hand side of this is our three phases and then the schedule so you see all the bubbles in the schedule how that works through so the public engagement visioning kickoff meetings analysis that's all in that phase one piece so the left hand side of the chart that goes across the bubbles and it's color coded to this so then you get into the phase two which is the concepting design development so then in in the planning process we're we start to uh put pen to paper and we start coming up with ideas it might be just Bubbles at first but then we start honing in based on what we hear from you and what you want want in specific areas of the park and how you want to start to look and what the stakeholders want and the community members all along through this at the very top you see monthly master plan development subcommittee meeting so with Marty that would be U bi-weekly information updates to keep keep him informed at all times of what's going on in the process so he knows what we've been hearing and then he can relay it back to the city itself because we're not sitting here every day you know we're we're here we're in our offices trying to uh get pined and paper and then um once we uh go through the concepting phase and and the public engagement where uh people are responding to the concepts then we start to create a comprehensive plan so we're hearing I like I want this I want a I want B I want C and we're distilling that down to a comprehensive master plan so then we move into phase three which is that final master plan and Report where we start to um develop a um draft master plan so again we can go back to the public the stakeholders and say is this what you want what's missing what do you want to expand on what do you want to do differently and and we fine-tune that Master Plan while we're doing that we're also starting to develop fine-tune cost estimates because you want to make sure that this is an affordable Park and you're meeting all your needs of your constituents so as we go through that uh master plan and we will outline the cost estimate and then start breaking it down by phases uh for implementation that it's affordable chunks As you move along in the process and then the final piece of that is the final master plan and Report which is a road map for your future and how you do the the master planning and as Dan mentioned this is your plan this is your community's plan the people that are your users that are going to be interacting in it on a daily basis weekly basis um but we have scoped a heavy amount of Engagement uh within our proposal that I just want to briefly go over we have three community events including as well as a popup event uh typically we try and tie those in with any other existing community events so that we're getting the people where they're already interacting uh or maybe it's something that uh is already going on at the park that would be fantastic we're getting used in their space that we're hoping to improve upon um and then of course we have our traditional survey Outreach as well as stakeholder discussions um and all of our engagement in those three community events that I mentioned are in line with that three phases that Dan outlined in the last slide so we'd have kind of that initial kickoff hey give us your 300 ideas that you have for this park and we want to hear everything and then we Whittle that down to take into those kind of multi uh High Concepts that then we get more feedback on and then build to that final concept which would be more that open house style certainly still welcoming feedback at that point but it'd be more fine-tuning nitpicky um at that point and uh you know we've scoped such a robust engagement within our um approach because we understand some of the you know there's a bunch of new families that have moved into dat that are going to continue to move into date as development continues to ramp up as well as folks that have lived their here their entire lives that are aging in this community staying in place and me have different needs than a young family but also want to have a usable space that works for everybody um and as I kind of mentioned with those stakeholders to stakeholder discussions um interacting with other agencies is so important as we learned from our uh Dayton Water Trail plan uh through our partnership and Communications and meetings with the National Park Service we were able to hear about their grant funding opportunities as well as get more Benchmark funding for those projects uh these these types of conversations that will happen specifically for this park we hope that those opportunities also arise within those discussions as well as I want to point out that MSA does have a full m Municipal funding team that is dedicated to um procuring funding opportunities finding more opportunities that uh we have all inhouse that we work with on several of our parks and recre ation projects so we threw in a slide of your current project that we're working on at at LC Stevens there the canoe kayak launch um progressing the plans Christian is managing the project um and we actually talked about some of that today and looked at the site again um continuously as we develop our projects we want to make sure that our staff see the site understand it and are able to work through the permitting agencies to get the project to fruition I mean one of the biggest things that we highlight when we do projects like Master planning or putting a plan together we want to make sure that they can be built um ultimately see the construction we hate to see our PL sit on a shelf and never get built so um based on what Claire just shared you know we try to help with the funding if we can um we also then with our team we can take it through design and through construction and that's really important to us to see it built because we're invested just as much as you are um and I think that's what's exciting to see I know we're getting really excited about seeing the launches built Claire and I will be back to paddle in in November when it's snowing um just to see if they work in winter too but um I think it's a real um asset we get pretty excited about seeing our projects and we come back we live in the you know area we want to see them we want to use them as well and so just throwing that up there as our plan um as we further develop it so we did want to take a minute to take a look at uh what's currently being built out and what potentially what some elements that you guys have already identified in the future you know we really want to maximize the use of this park for the community and help to enhance a sense of place through identifying different nodes for you know maximizing the vistas building Gathering points and really taking a look at you know what through the engagement process what are these things that the community is looking for looking to enhance in this park uh we really want to make this developed into a a really a place for the community and a sense of space that really represents what people are looking for I think I'm next so we did uh bring a two examples um because we wanted to not necessarily talk about a project as an example of what things are are in the park it's more of um the process the master planning process so I want to describe the process through these two projects because this is truly it's contextual it's about you you know we're working all over the country we're working in uh Monroe Louisiana right now Monroe Louisiana is totally different than Minnesota so it's all about monans there and it's all about dat here so we're we're an ESOP we're an employ owned company 100% Esa so we're about a group of people working together for a group of people in your homes it's not about what we can design and how we can design it it's more about the people and putting the right pieces together in the process so these are two projects that are in Madison Wisconsin the SL similarity uh with this one is um VIIs Park is a historic parks in Madison and it was designed by OC Simons who was a landscape architect that turn a century was one of the first Landscape Architects and um it's very historic Park but it's time for for they had wanted a master plan for this 100 plus years later so it has his historic significance to it so it's an Park that already existed so you've started LC Stevens but it's just a road again it's a road map that in the and you're finding out with this park even though it's on a drawing like this that might not be the final plan it's going to have Evan flows and changes as you go through the process as you're putting um the pieces in implementing them so this project um the similarities with what is going on at LC Stevens is one it's a waterfront park but then it's working with the Ho Chunk it's working with an indigenous Community that's in Madison Madison is they the most um uh uh Effigy Mounds in the world are in Madison Wisconson and it's the Ho Chunk so it's very significant to those those people and and their um spiritual and and historical needs so it's all it's the stakeholders and working with the stakeholders in that community and and what their values are but the planning part of it is yes they want a a certain type of playground multi-generational they want you know play spaces natural areas so it's all those things that we are hearing from the community we're not driving the bus on this we're not saying you really should have this you know natural grass area they're telling us no we want this natural Prairie Grass area so it it's about the community and and along the way we can integrate our professions into the project so you'll see on here storm water management so Innovative storm water management the resource is the water in this case you want to keep the water clean so us as um uh experts in our field is what's the best way to have integrative storm water management that collects sediment so you know the the general public all they are concerned about is protect our water but us on the professional side is okay this is how we can protect your water and and how we put these pieces that together to do that and then sanano is a um the last open space on lake manona in Madison and it was a whole new park for a community so this is their first stab at a master plan sort of like um LC Stevens where this first piece you know this is the approv master plan but this can change in the future and so this project um is phased and we did we went through the master planning process we got a we have a cost estimate the cost estimate is broken down into phases buildable chunks and we organize it in such a manner that you um the the development or the implement mation wasn't pieces sporadically put on the landscape it was working in large pieces to build out so that you had significant areas of use sort of like LC Stevens you have the one side that has been built out and you move to the next piece and the next piece and and these pieces are all usable in some form and at the end of the day the whole thing is done but this plan can change this is not saying this is set in stone but as we move through each project this is this plan was what the community wanted at this stage but once we get to say phase three there might be a change in something you know a nature play area well they might say we don't want a nature play area at this time because we found that we're using it to park this way and and we got to change our our thinking but again this is another one where we work with the Ho Chunk it's it has um a village site on it so um it it's historic as well and and taking in mind the history of the site and the people that are involved in it so it's more than just physical design it's people and it's working with the people of the community um and kind of to mention actually I'm going to go back a slide just because of these projects um both of them Hit Upon and why we have them in here it we had a lot of Engagement and a lot of different Community input and different ideas of how these Parks should look and it takes a lot to bring those ideas together and as a growing community that we see in Dayton as well as what we've saw in these two particular projects how do we bring that all into one plan and we have the tools to do that um through our engagement process through the discussions through the meetings that we have set up in the process it's really important to like Dan said boil it all down into a final draft concept bring that back to the public to say hey this is what we heard this is what we put together do you still agree or is there any final tweaks to this and then you leverage that that document to further figure out then how are we going to phase it budget it start looking for funding if we need to and then start tackling the project to get it built um these were both destination Parks um really important key critical parks to the community which we see in LC Stevens um they Community Parks so you're not just getting your residents who want to use the space but you're also trying to drive people to the community and that's what we heavily saw when we did the paddling Trail study um is just trying to get more people into Dayton to help Drive the need to have businesses come here um more restaurants we even talked about a hotel you know because somebody might want to come an overnight stay I mean Dan and I talk all the time about his paddling trips and where he's going and where I'm going and and why we picked those communities to go to because of what else they have for opportunities and so I think that's what's really important why we show these two projects but we really are here to talk about your project so again as Dan had mentioned um we want to make sure that communication stays open so he talked about um and we've been talking with Marty about bi-weekly um email updates to him um and whoever would be the point contact on this project as well to make sure that they know what we're doing and what we're working through um every couple weeks we'd have a monthly update that can be slid into your packets or the council packets wherever you need to um post that information we also have a tool called client feedback tool it is a survey um online that we send out it gets pushed out through a software program um and it can be sent to all of you or one of you um to provide us feedback like how are we doing are things going well are things off the rails or no you guys are spot on keep going or how can we maybe tweak things we want to make sure that this and we know it goes as a fluid process so um we set a scope based on what we saw in the RFP but if there are tweaks we're happy to tweak it and we we've had to adjust I mean doing the water Trail project we had to adjust because that happened when we started talking about the project prior to co Co hits well how are we going to continue to build up that project and make it make it successful so communication's key um with that just kind of a wrapup piece here um we obviously have the experience of working with you guys already and and starting with the water Trail project um we were on a call even with Three Rivers Park District today um talking about next steps even with good in park so uh we leverage our connections looking for those opportunities and we want to make sure that these projects can get built and and and in a timely manner as to how you guys want to rank the the priority on them um we have our dedicated project manager Dan Williams Christian is um the dedicated project manager on the construction project end so that's why we're all here tonight is just to kind of give you an actual face um to the team um we showed you a couple key projects um what we didn't show you tonight is built projects we do have additional slides if we want to look at any other pretty pictures but we really wanted to make sure that we left time knowing we had about 20 minutes um to leave it for questions for your project because we're here to answer your questions and we have our expertise we have a like I said full service consulting firm here that we can take things from the start to the finish and try to make your vision come to life so with that we we we sped through that I think we did that in good time here one minute to spare for questions so um so yeah we we're happy to take any questions from you all so I was ious I was looking at your um your fee schedule but there's nothing on there on engineering and yet we have engineering so is that can you share your engineering rates with us because that's going to impact the total cost I'm there for QC and so in the master planning process we do have our Engineers look over the master plan so as Dan and Claire and Eleanor work on the the overall picture itself I get brought in or Christian would get brought in to do an analysis as to um what pieces are buildable does it work within your guidance your zoning code things like that trying to make sure that it all matches up and then it actually can get constructed and it's feasible um I believe I'm on there and I don't Christian's a little bit newer to MSA but um with his rate is supplemented with you know we're brought into help with the cost estimating side so the hours are built into the plan you just don't see it broken out all specifically so we take Engineers all the way from the beginning to the end because we view it as a collaboration process because again the last thing we want is a plan that isn't buildable so I'm very passionate about it so I butt my way into a lot of projects I'm like hey what are you guys doing over there oh thank you I just wanted to understand that better so thank you I had kind of a similar question you mentioned having a a grant team and I know with our other projects the grants who secured been awesome um I don't see that called out in here is that a separate cost to have them engaged or is that something that we would have access to as part of this project for grant opportunities yeah yeah so kind of a it it depends I mean we'll engage them as part of the project as part of the overall master plan we start to feel out what the sources might be in identifying them and looking at the timing of them which when you guys start to identify what phases potentially you want to build out which are the programs if we go into the next level of needing to apply for the grant and you want to use msa's resources for that and starting to engage at a heavier level then we would be looking at probably some additional fee for that okay because it's it's an interesting group because there's not very many uh AE firm firms that have funding teams so we got we have a matrix uh it's it's basic the to more um fine-tune so we have a m Matrix of funding sources that we can tap into so we we'll identify those and then we go back to the community and say ask them if they want to pursue then if you want to pursue then that's when they get engaged on on a a supplemental fee because then they're helping you put together that that Grant opportunity sure the funding source thank you any other questions okay thank you thank you [Music] much apiz in the hall oh you guys were good thank you thank you again [Applause] now need it open we waiting for them D the you good all right so out of what we've seen here you would like us to narrow it down to two groups to bring forward to the council right go okay does anybody have any initial thoughts that they'd like to share or I'll start okay thank um my personal opinion uh amazing job Marty by the way like yeah those are three really impressive like I don't think any of them will put us in a bad spot so very nicely done that was I was very impressed like um that being said I always give a little extra love to people that show up in person and so my personal opinion is that if we were to narrow out one would be the the second one the H KGI simply because they didn't show up in person and like the first group they spent some time around the community that was really cool these guys get brought a whole team of five they waited for an hour and a half to to get to talk like I just give a lot of to those two in my opinion I'd say even addition in addition to not showing up in person their presentation felt the most plug andplay to me I I saw Marty literally over there just like in my personal opinion if I was to pick one I would go with the last one personally the whole reason why is because a they weren't messing around and they're so connected with us already and I don't I don't know maybe we have to go certain ways for certain bids like we can't always use the same firm but in my opinion they seem like they fully get what they're doing here and they're fully invested in this and they and even with that being said they didn't just like goof her out they didn't you know like they were truly trying to get the business again so my opinion would be to go with them but I would definitely give the first one and I mean and again I think the second one would be they'll do a great job it's just I like all three are good might as well give them a little love for driving to Dayton on a Tuesday night 5 deg yeah there was also a little bit of a red flag maybe with the first one after you brought up the the Civil the Civil thing and then hearing the last group talk about how they want someone there from go so that you don't present them with hey this is our beautiful amazing plan and then a civil engineer goes we can't do Riv the QA throughout the entire process to me was really impressive cuz I thought was a great question right like hey is this something that you and they already like they're just it's built in they're always going to be on top of it which that's that is impressive yeah yeah I fully agree with everything you said anything to add to that Carrie no I I agree too I like the first and third if we're putting two out there I was discouraged that the second group didn't even I mean if they can't be here tonight I get it but they didn't even take the time to go to the park another time that's why I a great knew so smart that was what I mean I get that sometimes you can't be here but you had since December to get to the park and I just didn't even hear him say any of the the like buzzword that we were talking about like like Premier park or like I don't know it they seemed very into like cool architect tal artsy sort of things which very impressive like cool that you made a Swedish fence like that's awesome like truly that stuff Spring's really cool but yeah but like also it's maybe in my mind not what we're looking for it's not going to D I think that they showed too many examples they patted their presentation too many examples and didn't talk specifically about elsc Stevens and not I would agree so that is I guess if I have any question it would be for you Marty you're the one who's going to have to work with them the most and it goes a lot by Phil I think that all of them are qualified MH so who do you see yourself working with I would like to know I'm just do you want the rest of the world to talk before you I guess that's true I should let I just sorry I'm all about um building relationships and stuff and uh having a relationship with somebody that delivers all the time um I think that our experience with Paul Kangas has shown us that you know a smaller place where you're relying on subcontractors to do this um and do that and that you're always not their their top priority they've got their own business to work through I no that design tree were on two of the presentations as a consultant I don't know how they manage that if they're able to they're obviously Hawking theirselves around to do other business as well as their own business so that was kind of a red flag I like the the scope of uh uh msa's staff I think that that is really impressive they can they've shown that they can take a project um from concept to build which is for me is huge I I don't want to go from you know having one firm do the design and then you know three years down when you get to phase two then there there's somebody else there who wasn't part of the master plan and doesn't know what was going on and they're trying to um work there through somebody else's plans that doesn't really always work out that well um you she is passionate about getting it all the way oh yeah and I I've worked with MSA on a number of things I think they've done a pretty good job with everything they've gone over and above what their scope was initially um I don't want to sound like I'm in love with them but they've done a good job for the city and so service I wanted to know you enjoyed working with them 100% like everybody can sound good and all three sounded good 100% but you actually know and ultimately it's coming down to you anyways day so if they are doing the job why do we need to change you know and I like the idea of just more having a feel of the entire park then like they've known this whole thing all the way through and it's happening with the river and all like they just and they've been kaying in November I'm sorry there's just more invested than these other guy the second ones they've never even been to the park like yeah again I understand they've been busy and stuff but it seems like MSA wanted a lot more and so that would be I also like that they took into consideration like environmental impacts of having things near the river and just like how that all cuz low footprint yeah exactly and they very big on the Ada compliance and all that kind of thing as well that's that's huge because that was the one thing I worried about with the first group was they we're talking about like all these features along the water and then I was like I mean that's cool but also along with that making sure that we don't degrade the shoreline right anything else Curry no that's what I had thank you um I too would get rid of the second one go with number one and three with the rest of the group things I heard I liked uh the first group they implemented an older master plan and rejuvenated it to something more so shows history that they've done this stuff before actually took the time you know like you guys said took went for a s sidewalk gave the town a feel um but then number three with County projects you already have the relationship there which is great makes it easier and then again like you said before design and construction from start to finish I love it I've never even eaten that Deans it's great I shouldn't admit that probably but on Monday open on Mondays they have Easter specials just call for how many people Friday Prime ribs good okay convincing me so yeah like others uh MSA was probably my my top Contender um I mean anyone could have looked at our old minutes and seen what we've talked about and wanted at that Park they're the ones who had it in their slides um you know they had the advantage of having worked with us but again anyone could have done that homework um and then I would put the the first one the Damon farmer as as my second and eliminate the H KGI cool all in agreement the only concern I have and obviously each one said it can be addressed is timing right slow and steady is good I get it but we already have somewhat of a plan there uh it's very important to have engagement with the citizens so they know what's going on 6 months to 9 months yeah it's a little out there fa mhm yeah I think that that investment in time you know pays off in the end especially with a master plan like this where you're not looking to construct something you know you got to get the master plan right in the first place and then you know spend that time and talk with all the stakeholders which is what we did with the um the water Trail and that led to other things coming up for us just by going through that process that's great Scott do you have anything you want to add my biggest thing that I that I gather from all three of them was and there's a critique here too um the uh the first Farber uh Damon Farber he mentioned 10 weeks to have that plan done that is getting after it where currently we've been waiting a year and a half when we don't we have nothing really I mean totally disappointing I mean extremely to where I I personally just don't have the time of day for it um I don't know that uh I I mean the real strike against them was the fact that they haven't visited the park on the HG K GI that that's really disturbing I mean you're we're asking you for some work and you don't have another time to go out there and look at it so I agree with you with all of you that that would be the strike on right there MH um as far as the other two I think either one I'm more capable okay I I like the the speed from the first one no no that's me because I'm extremely impatient about I like that too I it makes me Weary at the same time I wondered if they're if they're accounting for the necessary meetings or open houses or if that's just like if everything goes perfectly it could be 10 weeks is it really usually 10 weeks though if I was an engineer I'd have this done in four weeks I mean I think let's get after it I mean it I'm not sure they had that much Community engagement involved in that plan they said they did right but that's where the third one to me was really great because that great Community engagement and the one thing I thought was interesting so the third one was less expensive than the second one I think that like 13 or 14,000 less but the first one never gave us a a bid they gave it hourly 33 33 on page 15 there if they were to take the same amount of time they're about equal yeah that's what I'm saying yeah and that's the thing is like 335 and 10 weeks versus 58 over 6 months plus they got no engineering on that either point so it sounds it's lower but it's going to be more yeah it ITN six months though was that MSA never said 6 months uh on there he so they said 6 to9 yeah show a calendar months so the second group said seven months yeah and the third group said six their public engagement being two months long too I don't like I don't know if there are places where we could squeeze a little bit and sure yeaha basically be done by August and it' be 70 or 50 585 or something like that right right well to your earlier Point Brad we have a lot of ideas we don't need to go back for ground you know from ground one so that have some public engagement like this is what we've come up with final thoughts yeah that's the one thing that that's why group one could do it in the 10 weeks I think is because they're focusing more on stuff that we've already done and I think that they're probably just going to draw some Concepts up you probably get three drawn up Concepts um I don't know how much you know other and you know is this able to be built and thought process is in there as well so yeah so yeah I feel like I'm strongly leaning towards the third versus the first but if we want to put up two then first and third I think that goes across board y if we had to pick two we pick two if we could pick one we'd pick one okay so okay I try figure out why putting that in the STA report Scott did you have anything else uh no not really no no oh I mean have you guys uh one thing we were challenged I don't know where it where it all went but Council was asked to uh make a little drawing on what they thought should be there have you have you guys actually done that I'm not sure if I'm the only one that Drew a a map of that park or not what I would love to see there yeah we did it in person like over a year ago yeah okay yeah we walked it we walked it went through the restaurant The M you know we talked about doing a music venue we talked about you know mapping out all the different spots UMB the silos it was great try not to breath too hard uh but we talked about you know even the possibility of what happens with the open field area right and what that could be come and all the different things yeah we've walked it drawn it we kind of the whole okay I think I've got there was some notes and stuff that we took and that was in the next uh uh Park commission packet and stuff so we could pull those back out again and yeah include that stuff I mean everything from there was some talk about Community Gardens at one time and all kinds of stuff we've gone through everything Top Golf zipline I Top Golf zip line across the river all right that'd be awesome um just like our neighborhood yeah exactly that so announcements reminders are we still invited to the 25th council meeting um I will get that sorted out um it might move now because some things have changed but you're trying to get a Joint Council Park commission meeting in March yeah well the 28th was to discuss the 95% plans yeah so we were just invited to go to the 25th in order to be able to share our ideas about the Ma we're talking February right February 25th the 6:00 council meeting is what we were planning on attending right and then we had talked about our March 4th meeting being a a session for us to just a work session a work session with the council is what you were looking for yeah just us just wanted to prepare before we went to the counc oh yeah yeah you're right so we wanted a work session yeah just us and our bir day another big thing yeah so are we going to the meeting on the 25th and still doing our meeting on the 4th is that the plan is of now otherwise let's stick with that plan okay so the meeting on the 25th is that plan the meeting on the 25th is at 6:00 p.m. okay it's here counil correct not working right now so oh fun I haven't heard about it yet but you will surprise welcome to the party Council does last to know on everything just so you know and we got to make sure it's really good information and then we will have our standard meeting here on Tuesday March 4th theth oh that's right you're on vacation on the 23th she can dial in though yeah I'm not dialing in sorry absolutely not please do not 6:30 awesome um any other announcements fantastic uh call for a motion to adjourn motional I'll second all in favor hi what e