variety fol your War e first time sitting next to each other yeah good evening I'm calling the Monday April 8th 2024 Planning Commission meeting to order will everyone please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance Al to flag United States of America thank you everyone all right before we get to the agenda I wanted to just welcome commissioner Trisha Duncan to the commission first meeting tonight and then welcome back to commissioner far and commissioner Taylor I think you're back from their three years so congratulations all right uh moving on do I have any requests for changes to the agenda this evening entertain a motion to approve the agenda moved do I have a second approving the agenda second all right all those in favor approving the agenda say I I agenda is approved for the evening minutes from the meeting held March 25th does anyone have requests for changes or concerns about the minutes commissioner far uh Mr chair just one word change uh page two for the recorder uh fourth paragraph 1 two 3 four five six uh sentences down uh there's a sentence talking about the Western most driveway off Valley View required a used access agreement that should be a shared access agreement thank you all right any other concerns about the minutes all right entertaining motion to approve the minutes as amended so move all right I have a motion to approved I have a second to approve the Amendments second second do all those in favor say I I I opposed all right minutes are approved moving on we have three public hearings this evening the first one is Enclave at Manor Road 20234 this is a request for PUD concept review on 6.43 Acres PUD District review with waivers on 6.43 Acres zoning change from rural to r19.5 on 6.43 acres and a preliminary plat to divide one parcel into 17 lots and one out lot on 6.43 Acres will the proponent of the project please come forward good evening if you would state your name for the record and tell us about your request please come up to the mic if you would yeah my name is Chris contras I'm the president of brandle Anderson homes here in Minneapolis um and I'm putting forth a PUD for The Enclave at Mana Road will this work if I oh there you have it um so just Brandon Anderson I don't know if anybody's familiar with us but we have been doing developments and building homes in the Twin Cities for about 30 years um most of it in the southern part of the Cities we did a development last year here in Eden Prairie we're looking forward to doing this one as well um the neighborhood itself is The Enclave at Mana Road some of the exceptions that we're looking for we've adjusted the setbacks mostly to do that in order to pull the houses forward so that we could save some more of the trees we do have some self-imposed redundancy rules to make the neighborhood look good we're not going to build the same house to the left or to the right or directly across the street same thing with colors um and then our commitment is to just do what we have to do to make the development work within the city we're going to size some piping down the road we did our traffic study to make sure that it was acceptable um and then probably more importantly just somebody from my company is going to be on site every day there's a direct line to me who's going to make all the decisions about what happens so it's not going to take us long to react if if anything does happen the development itself is 17 Lots um it goes straight across to connect manner together um we have put together our Landscaping plan both both for the development and there's a tree replacement formula that we went through in order to make sure that we're replacing as many trees as we can um and then per house as we develop them we're going to fill in as much as the Landscaping as we can uh time frame we think development will start sometime in June um sales or to the public sometime in August September and then we think we should be out of there by April of 2026 complete escrow work and everything else done uh the product that we're selling it's going to range from 2400 up to 4,000 feet we are a semi-custom builder so if people want to do more we have the ability to do that uh pricing will start in the low 700s some of the things to make the community fit in and look good stone accents incre increased roof pitches we're using a Smart Siding instead of vinyl siding garage doors we're going to put Windows on them so they're not so solid enhanced Landscaping electrical vehicle ready and solar ready for for all the homes that are will be sold in the community um some of the elevations we do offer one level homes and if somebody wanted to have one we would build it for them uh but the target buyer is going to be the twostory homes whoops um and just depending on how people put them together the elevations will look differently depending on on the home itself and that's it for me I got really smart people with me though if you guys have questions great thank you do we have any initial questions for forther proponent well okay thank you thank you Jeremy will you take us through the city report [Music] please yes chair Commissioners um as the applicant had noted uh this is a request to subdivide the property into 17 Lots with a ride of way in a single out lot the out lot will be used for the storm water management on the northwest corner of the site um the 17 lots are rented on the single extension of South Manor Road that connect the two ends at that location or adjacent to the site this is a Redevelopment of an existing Farm um and while uh the farm itself is not historic the historic preservation Society or commission has asked to document uh the barn and some of the accessory buildings so the uh Property Owners agreed to allow us to document that before demolition occurs um as alluded to by the applicant there are a number of waivers requested um the front yard setback is requested to to go down from 30 feet to a 25 foot uh setback and then also the front yard setback along 168 for that single lot that is adjacent to 168 the setback there uh we uh they're asking for that to be reduced to 20 feet also uh and that both of those things also the lot width on the north side of the building or excuse me the north side of the road um the lot width requirement is 70 feet they're asking for a 65 foot wide uh lot there those three those three waivers staff is supporting because they get us to our goal of of trying to manage or maintain as much of the existing vegetation around the periphery of the site as we possibly could the the reduce uh front yard setback allows the buildings to come closer to the street uh allowing more space in the back yard away from grading and and other features that would remove vegetation in that area um really from the beginning this project we've tried to try to design it around maintaining the existing vegetation in the periphery of the site and then the storm water requirements the storm water requirements have been a challenge just based on the nature of the soils um where the ground slopes you know Upstream infrastructure how to how to kind of manage that and so that's it's driven quite a bit of the design choices um the uh Outlaw in the corner there from a storm waterer management is the best case scenario of what options we looked at um we've looked at some kind of unique management features that didn't quite meet our goals from an aesthetic perspective or a maintenance requirement perspective and uh this project with the waivers we feel does manage those or maintain those goals as as much as practical um um the uh the applicant has shown a tree uh replacement plan in a in a screening plan again to have try to blend this project in with the existing neighborhood um you know obviously could be you all the trees could be removed and then pay a hug or a substantial tree replace replacement fee but they applicant his work to try to maintain as many uh the existing trees as possible that we could in in that in those areas is um staff is recommending approval of the subdivision uh recommending approval of the zone change to r19.5 and recommending approval of the Pud with waivers as outlined in our staff report and I'd be happy to pull up any plans or answer any questions at this time thank you any questions for the city right away okay we will move on to a public hearing this is a public hearing it looks like there's a number of people who signed up that would like to speak I'm just going to go in the order of the names and when you signed up and um if you checked yes you're welcome to change your mind and you're welcome to at the end if you didn't sign up to speak you're welcome to come up at the end as well so um I will go first with Terry Pearson I'll be speaking on the okay all right uh Ted Mel good evening if you could just state your name for the record please and uh my name is Theodore R Melby um I live at 11 1881 Germaine Terrace Eden Prairie I'm questioning why none of you have any questions on this particular project um have all of you visited the site have you gone on it walked on it two of you three been on site yeah I've seen you've been on site you have been driven past good um I have a photo I'll I'll circulate I'll bring it up showing um what the tree removal has been on the development at the intersection of Pioneer Trail and Dell Road um I look at this one I can't tell you what the tree plan involves it doesn't tell us that there were so many significant trees to be removed from this property and that I hope when you see this Photograph you're going to realize that we aren't treating Mother Earth very well when it comes to trees and the replacement plan if all of you understand that I I give you all kinds of credit I can't for the life of me make any sense out of that tree replacement formula and um I'll be meeting with City people in the near future to discuss that tree replacement um plan so uh leave leave as many trees as you possibly can that would be very helpful thank you very much thank you all right uh Adam Driscoll good evening uh my name is Adam Driscoll I'm at 6411 miror Drive uh immediately adjacent to the project site on the east side so um I I respect the rights of the Builder and the owner to develop the property in consistent with the or to be consistent with the rules a couple things that I asked for them to consider and for the plan commission to consider as well on behalf of those living immediately adjacent uh are involving noise and traffic during the construction phase so as the plan indicates it's surrounded on all sides by existing uh neighborhoods and so to the extent that the the developer and the neighborhood can be familiar with the allowable hours of construction and numbers to call in the event that that is not honored uh and anything that can be done from the construction phase to limit noise such that we don't have at least a 2-year period of the the beeping sounds of reversing Industrial Equipment would be appreciated to be considered um as it relates to construction phase traffic uh living on Mir Drive I note that both Mir and South Manor and mistol all are approximately three car widths wide such that even at the current state if two cars are parked adjacent from each other only one vehicle can fit through and we've seen numerous uh near misses as a result of that by comparison it appears that 168 is wider so my request would be that construction related traffic and deliver deliveries to the extent possible more frequently use the west side of the axis on the new road as opposed to the east side of the axis so construction noise and construction phase traffic I ask for you to consider thank you for taking my comment thank you uh let's see is it Ruth Ferris it's Patty Ferris oh Patty Ferris a fair loud voice yeah pleas I stand here uh I can we pick her up online can we is there a mic we could bring to her I can try up it it's just we're recording online so it won't be picked up I'm sorry you'll be sorry you're asking me to use a microphone um I also recognize the need to develop this I live on 168 just adjacent to what they're calling the outlaw and I really would I didn't get a a show of hands on who'd actually been out to visit the site because um I'll address some general concerns but first my personal concern is it's going to ruin the sellability of my house I've had multiple Realtors come out and look at it and one the view is going to change um The Outlaw that it's modeled after is one on Dell Road and that one's in a totally different situation it's clear at the end of a development I'm um technically in Majestic Oaks um and my house is the only one in that development the face 168 and it also be creating an island with just my house with this huge out Outlaw about 15 feet from my side which is eroding and then the other house faces North Manor so my house will really The View will change they need to get access they're going to put the pipe through my front yard so they're going to take up 18 ft of my front yard and I just had a very expensive three-car garage um concrete driveway put in they're going to tear it up and they Gaslight me all the time every time they're out they say a wolf do your whole driveway and then somebody else comes out and says no we can match up the concrete I called the concrete company and they said we can't match up the concrete for within a job because it depends on temperature humidity all kinds of other factors um they want to put in Plants you know I agree that there's a some really good trees in there I but I also know that there's a lot of junk trees in there too there's a lot of Buckthorn there's a lot of box elder so when they say they're preserving trees I'd like you to also consider the opposite that they're um saving money by not having to grade those areas and there are junk trees that have been nothing but a nuisance in the neighborhood with box elder infections and taking Buckthorn and and Buckthorn that's going voluntarily through route through Roots rather than through seeds and the final thing is that um um I think that we'd like to propose that the city that the Planning Commission just puts a pause on this for a month and ask the developers to come up with an alternative plan where the outlaw is actually within their subdivision because the there's not an existing Outlaw of this design one comes close to it but this one's going to have a bay where the water kind of filters into the dry Pond and when we went out and visited the dry Pond you wouldn't want it next to your house it has um it's a kind of a hole about 5 foot deep it's got some kind of uh foliage in it and nobody takes responsibility for it I would like to add that this outlaw is within an HOA community and so they have their HOA mow it I can't afford to mow it I have a hard time affording to mow my own grass I can't mow it myself the city sidewalk needs to be uh it's a big walking uh path and everybody walks their dogs on there I mean it's just a b time to visit with neighbors when you're out after dinner time there's so many people out walking and if nobody um plows that if nobody mows the grass between the sidewalk and the uh street it's just going to become terrible to pass uh in terms of I'm trying to get a whole bunch of points in here and I know I can talk fast so I'll be glad to to go over anything but um in terms of the traffic we're concerned because so many kids go up to play at the local park that 168th is not as wide and devoid his children as other people from Mirror have made it out to be I've seen people almost got hit when they've taken you the street to walk their dog so I think you know I almost wrote you all because I wanted you to come and have a site visit and I thought well that's probably not fair to other people so I didn't but I'd love to have any of you come over during kind of a take your breath period if you meet every two weeks or once a month and just come over and look at it because the grading plan doesn't make any sense The Outlaw is not the lowest they plan a massive regrade of it that goes against the Topography of the land I did have the Watershed District come out and the developer claims that they submitted multiple plans to the Watershed district and indeed they only submitted one plan and they were told that plan wasn't acceptable because it didn't have any place to filter out the uh the uh phosphates in the water that it just had the runoff go straight in um and so I think that it'd be very easy to have kind of Mir Road come down I mean I'm sorry the new addition to South Manor come down and do a U-turn and have a really nice out lot where they can keep it going and keep it and have an HOA there and keep it serviced and um not not take up not ruin our neighborhood by having a pit essentially there that gets wet occasionally but drains most of the time and it's a you know bug um breeding grounds it's a rodent Fiesta it's just a mess I mean I guarantee you if you went over and looked at the one at Dell you wouldn't want it by your house and all you have to do is walk down a ride down the road and you'll see all the other retaining ponds are part of the natural topography so that they have Creeks running through them they have a a street a bunch of woods going through them none of them are just bu down in the neighborhood and so I kind of feel like I'm getting the short end of the stick on this one so I and also as far as the grading goes there were people that had um comments about their basements getting flooded and I know we had a neighbor move out already from uh South man um from North Manor because their yard was flooded already they didn't think the grading plan was adequate so they already moved and um when we spoke to the people over in that addition that has the the pond similar to what they're going to put in the dry Pond they said that their yards are getting flooded by a backup from their um their underground sprinklers well if they're going to send all the the storm sewer the sump pump down into this dry Pond they're going to back up also so I don't think they've done their homework I think you have a situation where three different entities uh the city the developer and the Watershed all have different purposes and I ask one of you to step up and and say I'm going to be the integrator and go through that make a CO comprehensive plan that's going to address mir's need for not having these big houses overshadowing smaller houses in terms of um the developer bending it into the community I don't think it could look more out of place I think it's going to be a sore thumb when you draw it down it's going to stick out like a sore thumb so I I again would we have pictures also if you'd like to see we took pictures on our phone so and there's all kinds of erosion the lady had to have a rock retaining wall installed in her yard to keep the erosion from the pond that's the dry pond that's kind of like this one and they're not doing anything about it the developers they just want to come in and start digging and they did admit to us that they had no experience with the development phase that normally they take land that's already plotted and build houses on it so this is their first experience and I think they need help I really do because I think they're falling down and I really don't want to be the brunt of their fallen down thank you very much for your time sorry if I rambled I was trying to cover a lot of points thank Youk that's all I had for people that said they wanted to speak would anyone else like to come up you're welcome to sure please come on up if you would state your name for the record please ja uh in the microphone please Marie Jackson sorry I didn't know if I was going to speak I'm her daughter I live in that in that same house by The Outlaw um my concern is the traffic and I don't know if you guys are the ones that are going to that would decide that so sorry if I'm but I have a three-year-old and a seven-month-old children that I just think it's important for you guys to know that the traffic that exists currently on 168 there's no speed there's no like um speed limit there's there are barely any stop signs and we already have to tell people not to drive 40 miles an hour down that road and there's nothing there're keeping people safe currently you're adding 17 additional houses with no additional safety measures so I think we're fine with the fine with this going in but there needs to be something keeping our current neighborhood safe that's not even there currently so I think that's really important for you guys to consider because um our street has a lot of kids and a lot of dogs and um if two cars are parked next to each other it's very close trying to get through there so it's really not that large of a road um as someone that lives there so thank you thank you yes coming up if you would state your name for the record into the microphone good evening my name is Natalie Martin I reside at 16571 South Manor Road um my concern is wanting to Echo what was just said about the safety um we currently do not have any stop signs at that um intersection of South Manor and Mir drive and we have cars that are going much more than 30 m per hour um we also have a lot of kids on that block and dogs and I worry that if there is no traffic control that there could be accidents whether it involves cars or whether it involves cars and animals or cars and people um my other I guess thing that I would like to address is that the traffic study I'm not really after I'm reading it I'm maybe I'm missing something but I'm trying to do the math and if there are 17 additional houses is going in and you're factoring it's a twod driver [Music] household how are we getting 15 additional trips in the morning are we averaging that not everybody in that household might be leaving at the same time because when I do the math 17 * 2 is 34 um so I would just ask that you consider that um as well as the traffic control either at mirr or if we're putting it in and making it a way stop um but something just so we can control that thank you thank you okay uh yes I'm sorry it's not not like I didn't talk enough you have to come to the mic please I'm sorry I put quite a bit of thought into to this and I I wasn't um really prepared to speak publicly but I've done a lot of thinking about it the reason why I suggested a u type design is I think it would address the issue nobody's going to want to go down the U and go out of 168 or go down the U and go out of mirror so it'll naturally funnel that traffic out both sides and also it'll open up a um people that live on um honeysuckle complain about their basements and I don't think the grading takes into consideration the runoff that goes back into into theirs without the u you won't have the dam of a road so we should be able to get that drainage um straightened out so that it does go downhill but I think the U design pretty much um does everybody's problems and the people on mirror were concerned about the larger ones the larger houses so I was wondering if they couldn't offer Lots specific based on their smaller houses if somebody comes in and wants a one-story house that they couldn't say we have these lots and they offer those to people that the lots are close to to one-story houses that are already in existence rather than have them just a complete Choice do it kind of by size anyway thanks for letting me get the rest of my thoughts in thank you all right is anybody else I just want to say yeah so good evening thanks for having us uh I'm Paul Bloom little along South Mana Road between uh me and and mistel and going to just Echo uh the track traffic concerns at at me and then our house um hugs a what you call a crosswalk that's kind of in a tough spot in Eden Valley Park uh when you're coming in from Duck Lake if you if you uh eventually make South Manor a straight through roadway just a little bit concerned I have two young children we play out in the front yard plenty of people take their dogs on that crosswalk there's no stop sign over on that side if if you don't slow down traffic coming through there with 17 new homes and make South Manor a little bit more of a of a through street through that neighborhood I do worry and I would just hope that as the folks kind of plan out the traffic side of this you think about some sort of traffic calming uh kind of in that Corridor you are it's a it's a dead end now right it ends at at The Farmstead if you will so that's provided uh some protection but still cars kind of whipped through there because it's a a southernly out to Townline Road or to to come the other direction to Duck Lake so I just uh just give it some some strong consideration and just please make sure you're taking into consideration the full uh traffic impact of opening up uh South Manor and its entirety and what that can do uh uh to South Manor Road but uh thank you for your time thank you I see one more hand good evening if you would state your name for the record please hi my name is k olon I live on Mana road on the other side and I just had two comments um one is just reiterating the water management issue only because when we moved into our house which was built in the 60s and it backs up to a development that was built in the 80s the developers did not uh respect the water plan we had someone come out from the city and they told us that well the developer didn't do what they were supposed to do and so we've had water issues in our yard for years which we've had to spend a lot of money to take care of and so I just think that's a really important thing to be sure is very well researched and understood because that is a lot of uh runoff with no PL you know no place to soak in so that's just that comment but I also was hoping somebody could address the zoning because I don't quite understand it says um has some uh comments here about requesting to rezone to R1 to 95 is that one zoning thing is that a set of zones because it this seems like the houses are super close together and I know I probably can't tell but it seems different than the zoning around it so I don't understand what those numbers mean but if is there anybody who can explain that the zoning cu cu shouldn't it be kind of consistent with the houses around yeah we'll take comments and we'll have discussion so okay thank you thank you all right all right seeing no one else at entertain a motion to close the public portion of the hearing so move all right do I have a second second all right all those in favor of closing the public hearing portion say I I opposed right public hearing is closed further discussion kind of four General subjects trees traffic water management and Zoning request safety safety yeah I have a question just for the record what is the speed limit for um city of Eden Prairie streets where they're unmarked uh chair and Commissioners the speed limit when it's not marked is 30 miles an hour all right thank you I just wanted to state that for the record because the young lady said there was no speed limit there are speed limits they may not be posted but there are speed limits right that's correct the statutory speed limit in Minnesota is thank you could you oh go ahead commissioner tayor know if you want to follow up um I just wanted to follow up on the the um the comments that was made about the outlock um what plans what plans are there in place to make sure that the outlaw is suitable doesn't cause any issues that were brought up uh by the neighbors um in that specific area I believe it's Northwest um could we get some feedback or comments on that from the so the the question is is what's being done with the outlot or how how's that outla designed or the storm water feature uh designed to to not add water to the neighboring properties is that the question R the yards and yes I'll turn that over to Carter as a water management question so so as far as just the Ponder you're talking about maintenance of the sidewalk and Mowing and vegetation What specifically I guess gu more specifically of what was brought up in reference to there was concerns about um potential flooding of their yard sure um so we can start with that okay um so this neighborhood doesn't have a lot of storm sewer in it to begin with um what's out there today I would say is going to be a worse situation than the treated contained storm water that's being planned for this site U right now it waterfalls it goes where it kind of naturally goes which ends up being in people's low yards um across 168 there's some low areas where it just happens to be picked up after it floods and goes into a pipe um with this open space now being more or less collected into a a street goes through the pond area it will be uh there will be a bay a separate area within this pond so it will be a um a dry space where that water should be infiltrated and again these are partially city of Eden Prairie rules for storm water treatment and partially Watershed District so she's right with the the entities being involved um that water will go into the the for Bay it's called right so it's going into that beforehand it's going to infiltrate uh to a certain rate and that's a requirement uh that has to happen to get the Watershed District permit uh and then water that may not infiltrate that may go past that rate will go into the the lower space where it will go into another pipe and then through uh the rest of that system so um you know from a storm water treatment standpoint things are better uh from a flooding standpoint uh I would say things are better as well um so this water is being actually captured and treated and infiltrated in a specific purpose and area versus before where it kind of went wherever it wanted to go in this open space so U it it is it is meant to be a a more or less a pond which we do have all over the place there are some ponds where this goes up to uh South Manor and around the corner there's another Outlaw with a pond in it just like this so this will also be a city-owned and maintained Outlaw um which means we're going to maintain it we're going to mow the area next to the sidewalk if we're going to plow the sidewalk the reason it hasn't been plowed is because no one's living there so um okay thank you there question discussion could you speak uh a little bit are is the city aware of any current traffic issues on 168 is there anything that um do you've heard of concerns even before this has gone in it would go in um chair and Commissioners um it's not a highly you know responded area as far as recorded area for Speed and traffic problems um we do get similar type questions or concerns um I will state that stop signs are not something the engineering department puts in for speed control that's just not the purpose of it stop sign is to create right away when someone comes to a stop um it's not we're not going to put a stop sign on a straightway road just to make people stop uh they actually inherently are less safe if you do that when they're not warranted so that's not something a practice that engineering is typically going to do um do people go faster than 30 miles an hour it's very possible uh one of our tools we have is to actually put up one of those electric speed signs to see how fast people are going um commonly if you're on your front porch and you see someone go by a 30 miles an hour it feels like they're going faster than that um with more intersections more condensed neighborhoods tighter uh parking on the streets things like that that will happen with this development that will that will inherently make this safer it's hard to picture that because I think more trips is worse but you can imagine having to make Maneuvers make turns make Corners go around other cars when when we talk about speed limits and problems with speeds and then you directly say that when you park cars and you have to go slow to go past them that's the proof in why that's safer so so I would say to answer your question directly again uh know there isn't a notable issue here um and this with this neighborhood development uh there's commonly not stop signs in every corners things like that so there will be a stop sign I believe in this plan at 168 and the the connection other questions or discussion it from the commissioner Mr chair commissioner fire I'll take a stab um I like this development application a lot um but the neighbors did bring up a lot of positive points so I'd like to just maybe knock off a few if I can um I agree with the uh staff comment about the uh Street going through and traffic concerns uh anytime we can connect streets up it offers more dispersion options so instead of that that funneling of traffic like I think um Mr Schultz was talking about again it offers just many options and we've seen this before on a lot of infield developments where um there's a perception that there will be a lot more traffic but again with more options for everybody in the surrounding area it really does work out best for everybody um there were some comments about the trees uh coming down and I know that this is actually heralded is really good application project considering it's a it's it's a uh going from more of an agricultural Farm to a single family residential development um where a lot of trees have to be removed but our city is actually known for the aggressiveness on our tree preservation policies and while the calculations can be somewhat um daunting to the applicant and even to us Commissioners and staff um those are are carefully planned to uh minimize the amount of trees that do come down put emphasis on larger trees significant trees and Heritage trees we call them um we understand there are nuisance trees as well in the neighborhood like Buckthorn and some would say cotton Woods as well um but um uh our our city does a really good job of allocating land within our city for tree preservation like as many parks and Open Spaces that we have that the city has invested in and frankly I think we have more Acres of those saved natural areas in aggregate than most other communities um so uh this being an infill site with Suburban development all around it I I think that's a fair expectation that there should be more of the same in this particular area um I uh I'm sure that there are um rules and regulations about constru construction hours of operation and safety that the applicant and their contractor will abide by especially if they' had built in the city of Eden Prairie before but yes there are phone numbers for residents to call in case you want to make a complaint um it's good to hear that the applicant will have somebody on site every day to watch out for certain problems every time uh C certain Earth moving equipment may come in and off a road you may get some mud and of course rains and that could run down and their respons for street sweeping and keeping your area clean during construction weather happens but there are phone numbers to call if there's a problem but I'm sure that they'll be on top of that they seem to have a good reputation in our area um that's all I can say I support the development and the findings of staff to um support the waivers for front yard setback um as well as the lot widths I support that based on the findings of aggressive tree preservation on those rear yards thank you chair Mr chair can I build on commissioner farv comments of course um there are a lot of us who've been on this Planning Commission for a while and and have learned about the process that the city goes through and many times um this might be your first opportunity to get involved and to see what's going on and and I think what what I've learned in 15 years on the Planning Commission is the city has a is a pretty darn wellestablished process to evaluate the what the developers so the developer isn't just giving something to the city and saying here's what we want we expect to get it the city has a a a in-depth process involving all of the Departments of the city um and they get into things in gruesome detail and I know my first year or two on the commission I was asking exactly these same questions and we just learned that no all of this has been looked at carefully and there are reasons for it so when you ask we these gentlemen here representing the the city usually have a pretty good answer for it and just to reemphasize um what our city engineer said we found that when we're develop when areas are being developed from scratch the Water Management problems get better after the development because we're making we have requirements on how to handle that water as opposed to just letting it randomly go and and so the answers you're getting here I think are sincere and well researched and you know I think I think I found that I have I have pretty good trust in what the city's doing and part of our job here as well as the city council where there'll also be public hearings on this is to give you voice and a challenge where maybe we don't don't see the logic on what the city has done but I too like commissioner farre feel that this is a pretty wellth thought out project is it perfect no there aren't any perfect ones particularly infill projects like this they're never perfect but they're pretty good and probably as good as it can reasonably be so I support the project as well thank you commissioner Kirk other discussion or comments from the commission yeah I think I would excuse me I would Echo what commissioner forign commissioner Kirk said I think it's a pretty good project and um I think we normally see more of a laundry list of waivers so I was actually surprised by the amount of waivers that they're more minimal than you normally see I feel like so um when commissioner there was just one other resident concern that I just wanted to answer that I didn't have an opportunity uh before the neighbors to this Pond Patty and Marie uh spoke about um uh some concerns about the view to the pond uh from their house and uh as one can imagine there's probably one man's beauty is another man's trash a lot of people pay extra to not be next to a house but to look out onto a natural area some don't uh but that's okay I'm sure that the uh developer I noticed on the landscape plan that there's 91 I think trees that they're planting between your house and the pond some are deciduous trees some are most of them are coniferous trees which will be green all year long um I I would urge you maybe to through staff or directly with the applicant um they'll probably hand Place those for you strategically from your window um so that you're satisfied with your with your view concerns there um I I think that they'll be happy to play with you on that so that that works out well as well as your driveway concrete so uh just wanted to point that out thank you chair thank did sorry did we cover the Zone the definition of of zoning oh if you could could you speak to that jery yeah so the the proposed zoning is to R1 9.5 so R1 is residential single family and then the 9.5 suggests the size of the lot so the minimum lot size in the R1 9.5 zoning district is 9,500 ft some of them are bigger um and if they're smaller then need to waiver uh but that's that's the standard established by that zoning District in terms of kind of surrounding properties um the neighborhood to the east is zoned r19.5 and then the properties to the north um are zoned R11 13.5 which is again single family uh residential 13,500 square feet for the minimum lot size and then south of the lot um excuse me south of the um development excuse me north and south is R1 13.5 and then to the west across from 168 that zoning district is r122 which is again single family residential 22,000 square feet uh as a minimum lot size so that's kind of how our zoning uh in pray zoning Works in terms of the residential side is it's either R1 which is single family or RM which is which is multiple family which isn't really the case here but that's how we we um we address those thank you Mr chair yes I may Comm dun um yeah thank you uh just want to comment I think these are all well-received comments and I appreciate everybody coming out tonight to provide comments um and as the chair mentioned I think there was a few themes that um circulated tonight about traffic calming water flow zoning and trees um and I just want to um comment that I think I'm in favor of this proposal I would say that in relation to the zoning uh generally it does appear as though the lots are smaller than the surrounding area I know there is a waiver that's being asked um this evening but if I'm looking at the plat correctly that would just be one observation that I would make uh this evening is it does appear that some of the Lots at least on the north side of South Manor appear to be um in smaller size to the general area thank you thank thank you um and yes commissioner Sil I just want to have one quick comment about real estate somebody mentioned earlier about their home value may be dropping because of this development um I'm not sure if anyone is a realtor but my understanding of it is the higher priced homes in neighborhood would typically help develop your home that's where people typically want to be around and that's when you have other people looking to renovate their existing homes as well so that's my only comment about the value okay thank you right um I would entertain a motion unless someone else has one final there was something to asked about the noise as well during construction has there been any type of discussions or set times on when construction will start in and I don't think it requires it but is there any type of pile driving or anything that's going to be taking place when the construction start as well Mr chair Commissioners in terms of the hours of of construction city code limits hours of construction and I don't I don't want to say it here because I don't want to misquote um but we do have a standard hours of operation um from really every day except for Sundays and holidays and then work is not permitted in those areas or those days in terms of construction methods um in terms of construction methods um I don't believe pile driving or anything that has been identified but those are would be subject to the same hour St standards okay okay commission for the record the beep beep beep of the backing construction vehicles is a federal oosha requirement for safety Mr chair yes commissioner F I'd like to make a motion I'd like to move to recommend approval for PUD concept review PUD District review with waivers zoning change and preliminary plat all on 6.43 Acres as represent on the April 8th 2024 staff report all right I have a motion to approve from commissioner far do I have a second second second from commissioner Kirk all those in favor say I I I opposed would anyone like to abstain okay all right uh congratulations moving forward to next step thank you everyone for your comments moving on this evening we have another public hearing this is for Lotus Villas on Anderson Lakes 202 24-02 two request for a guide plan change from office to low density residential on 5 Acres PUD concept plan review on five acres PUD District view with waiver on waivers on 5 Acres zoning District change from office to r1-- viw on five acres will the proponent of the project please come forward good even evening good evening chair and Commissioners uh Mike Waldo with Ron clar construction and Tim Whitten will be coming up also with Whitten Architects um want to thank you for the opportunity to come forward uh for this project um hopefully we can uh expand on things uh we've had some good good neighborhood conversations along the way so uh I know I'll have a couple neighbors probably speak but I think probably the biggest things from their concern comes back to the things we talk about which is off of operation that's 7 to 7 to making sure that people are uh not getting going early in the morning which unfortunately contractors like to do um and also just making sure that the noise during the demolition of the site if we proceed forward uh and the uh dust and those type of things are handled so um we feel we've created a good rapport with the with the neighbors we actually met with them before we started the planning process we met with Staff first then went met with some of the neighbors most affected kind of talked about what we're looking at talking about the changes and we think that kind of helped guide us hopefully to a plan that but um I think overall uh we have support of the neighbors I think like anything changes hard um so what they're looking at is just making sure that we're kind of holding to what we say we do so um that's kind of the big chunk there um I think the biggest this looks like way too way too fancy for me um I think probably the key to our conversation tonight and probably the the reason that we feel very strongly that we're in the right is when you look at this drawing and you see the neighborhoods that are surrounded by houses and uh different densities and we have this huge 40,000 foot building in the middle of it which many of you that have been here probably more than the 15 years know that at one point most of this probably was a commercial zoning I think everything bleeding out from the center had been at one point thought to be more of a dense situation so um we're very confident that uh kind of the movement to bringing this into what we'll call a mixture between the little bit higher density Weston to the single family to the south of us fits in really well we believe the empty nester product which is the Villa product we do extens extensively fits very well into that I'm going to have Tim kind of talk about the land plan and then I'll jump back in for a few other things thank you go Arrow Arrow the right is what I figured so far all right good evening Commissioners I'm Tim Whitten with Whitten Associates architects also with me is Heather monum and architect with our firm uh you know a long time ago I was the architect on Harford Commons and uh it's uh OB was the architect and also on the development team and uh some of the members of Western Woods uh remembered me from from that experience so that's a while ago but uh we're very proud of that project and uh so we have the site plan I'm going to speak about that um first the uh the thought here was that we've got Town Homes to the north existing Town Homes to the north and we've got existing single family to the South and this is the what we call a transition so now we have detached single family in between the Twin Homes and uh the large lot single family and it's kind of a one of the early principles of of land planning uh the office always did seem to be misplaced um possibly why that's vacant today um we originally uh considered a mix of Villas and Twin Homes on the development and then we had our initial meetings with the Western Woods neighbors and the single family Neighbors in the sanctuary and we decided to see if we could make it work with all Villas which is what you see today there's 19 Villas all on 55 ft wide Lots 16 of them are walkouts or Lookouts full basement but Lookouts or walkouts the three in the center facing the pond Are all uh slab on grade and so we're making those story and a half so they have their one level living that uh is their main stay and either they have the expansion space down with family room or a couple bedrooms or they have that same upstairs uh we there's at least two car garage for every unit we haven't exactly figured out all the different combinations we have some Courtyard homes that we can fit into the site uh Villas and uh that could possibly support three cars uh they have two cars parked in each of the driveways uh the private Drive is 26 foot wide and that can support up to about 20 guest parkings for the overnight stay situation we don't have any driveways that face on to uh Prairie uh Lakes Drive and you see in the site plan we really focus the the homes around the perimeter either looking at the the wetlands um or into the the burm landscape BMS between the existing Twin Homes are in single family uh it's a loop road of the entrance to the South is pretty much at the entrance there is today for the existing office but in order to make it a safe travel for the the residents we have it looped around and connect to the north uh the pond is located um along PR Center or PR Lakes Drive uh we think that also makes it a very uh nice look from that street so when you're looking at the community you're not looking at garage do you're not looking at back back are patios you're looking at a ponds and and Landscaping we're adding a sidewalk on the uh west side of the Is that West I'm not sure anyway along Prairie Center Drive uh I guess it's east side and that connects the existing sidewalk to the north by Western woods and then crosses over Prairie Center Drive uh to the West um each of the Villas are uh 40t wide and and approximately 80 foot deep they're going to be 2500 square feet up to 3600 square feet the uh we'll kind of move to the uh some of the architecture and so these are examples of Ron Clark uh Villas and other locations we've been working with them for 20 years uh very successful um highly detailed uh we call four-sided architecture so all sides of the building like as detailed as the front the exter material is going to be high quality of you know either LP or Hardy or stone um at this stage uh we feel the benefits some of the benefits really is that you have a single developer Builder so it's not a developer building it bringing in multi-b Builders it's it's all one team uh they control the demo and they'll control the construction there's also going to be a homeowner association with the project and uh but most importantly it has the reputation of of Ron Clark doing the project and with that I'll uh I'll let Mike come up and and answer some of the questions I don't want to take anything away from you thank you you're good thank you Tim um just kind of clarifying A couple things again will be uh all H maintained so all the snow removal uh the private Street private driveways uh everything in the yards all be maintained G by the HOA um so that would be it's an I think tax base one of the things we all look at um the 25 value or 24 value in the site was about 2.3 million we're expecting by the time we're done we should have around $20 million in Villas so definitely an advantage to the city there um one of the things that let's see if I can you might not be able to see it well um one of the things we've really tried to do in talking with the neighbors is you can see the the Landscaping Bol on the single family to the South they've got a lot of nice trees in their backyards and we're trying to do the same thing on our side and one of the things we' working with staff on is normally in those rear areas we end up because we do have drainage there which is pretty minimal but they want to do a drainage utility easement and what we've used in the past is what we call a buffer easement it gives the city all the same rights of a dnu but it still allows us to plant the trees and to maintain the trees in those areas which assist the buffering both from the North and the South so it's something something we worked through with staff we've got it implemented in many other communities and it works really well because you know Engineers unfortunately don't like trees and easements which I understand but in this case if they've got to correct something because let's say a homeowner goes in and adjusts their drainage when they shouldn't um the HOA will tell them to fix it along with the city and then either the Home Association or the individual is required to replace any trees that were taken out and make sure the drainage is put back where it is and so it gives us a great enforcement mechanism to make sure we don't have any future issues with drainage um if any had a chance to look at the grading plant the one advantage is you'll see that along both of the common property lines there's BMS already kind of coming in from the existing neighborhoods and we're tying into those so there's no point at which water from our site leaves going either North or South everything drains from the streets up into the pond and the reason we kept it there was that way we could have the pond the lowest allow for infiltration but it connects into the current STS who were piping in Prairie Lakes Drive to have the water leave the site currently all the water that falls and hits that is going to that site untreated because when this building was built treatment wasn't required so now we've developed we're kind of taking the same drainage patterns bringing everything to the front with guttering of the Villas along with the streets ponding to the front allows us to treat it infiltrate it and then dump it into the current uh system over time to allow it to get into the normal process so I think that's something very important um we have worked with the uh neighbors to the north the Ron about adding a six foot fence uh solid op Peak fence on the property line um there's a couple as you can see that the one home there um that's pretty close looking straight across they've kind of got a bay window that faces straight across I think you received a a letter from Mark and Becky um so we're working with them to have something to give them a little bit more of a visual buffer the trees I think could do a great job but they they would like to see if fence and if it makes sense to me if so we've added that into our presentation and our submitt to to put a fence in for them um kind of the other things that probably difference is internal sidewalks neither project to the North or South has them I think with the monor am traffic on the loop road we feel strongly that that's not needed so we've left we've left that out like the other two neighborhoods um other than that um appreciate the opportunity and we're here for any questions concerns you might have thank you any questions Mr chair I do have one can you talk a little bit about the demolition process yes um So currently we've been um emptying everything out of the building um and again hopefully we've we've stopped at a point where if this goes south and we don't get approval it would convert back to it we do a multi-use tenant building but they had 300 workstations in there they had a huge data center in the lower building which we actually were had somebody take 100% of the out and replace it there's a 500 kilowatt generator there which is crazy and so we found someone that actually will reuse that they actually take them store them and eventually sell them out so we're looking to try and res not have anything go to the landfill that doesn't absolutely have to and in this case I even the concrete from the building most likely will be taken to a facility where they'll be able to crush it um the demo process should take around two weeks Giver takes about probably 10 working days to 12 working days um we've got the three contractors working with are all ones we've worked with before um we've had conversations with them about dust which is usually the biggest thing from a demolition is you know most of the demolition will happen from the parking lot over so really until we get to the outer wall it isn't really going to affect the Western Woods group but the key is making sure that if we have a dry year that we're getting water on that and probably even more importantly is that they're watering during grading because the demolition ax has less dust and stuff going into the air than the grading process does so both our contractors were looking at their understanding that if we get another dry ear like we've had that we need to make sure we water that process but the demo should be pretty straightforward we'll have with everything out of it we'll have we've had phase one and uh Hazmat survey is already done we've got just some minor amount of uh glazing on some of the windows that after to be removed that'll all be removed prior to that demolition piece so we'll have clean debris leaving the site thank you other questions right Away Great thank you thank you Jeremy we we take us through the planner report on this thank you chair Commissioners um as described um this is uh several projects or several requests to facilitate this project the first one being a comprehensive guide plan change to change the land use from office to low density residential um based on uh kind of the surrounding properties and the state of the office Market it seems to make a lot of sense shift the land use from the office to the low density residential we did not want to see high density residential or even medium density residential so that was a a talking point when we started to get calls on this property uh just based on the neighbors the neighboring developments we didn't want to see any density higher than what uh really is is shown in the town home or excuse me the twin Home Development to the north there are higher density projects to the west and so we found a sweet spot in terms of density in land use in this in this project here also requested as a as a zone change uh to R1 9.5 um it comes with the number of waivers and I'll get that get to that in a moment um we're looking at also a PUD concept review and a PUD District review with the waivers um and primarily we don't have a zoning District to just cleanly fits this zoning uh this product um and frankly we don't have a lot of the requests um of this type of product to to facilitate a change at this at this time so we've uh found the best kind of case scenario in terms of what our zoning District allows for this type of product and then uh lastly obviously there's the preliminary plat um prelimary PL requests for the 19 Lots uh an out lot for the road and an out lot for the U for the pond area um mentioned the the waivers earlier um there are a number of them that are are requested um the uh the lot area and the lot width um all of these lots are are are designed to be relatively small and really just house the the the home bad language but um basically there's not a lot of open space or backyard play area or something like that because that's not the the goal for this type of development um so basically a lot is created to to to provide uh a lot for the home um we can support that in this situation because uh it's a homeowners association managed product uh they're going to manage the the grounds the Landscaping the lighting um the streets those things like that which is sets it apart from our standard single family residential development where a developer may just try to put as many Lots in there as possible this is a a unique product that we see fits well in this location the setbacks including the front and the rear setbacks the front along the street there our primary objective there is to make sure that you can park your vehicle in your driveway without overhanging a sidewalk if there is one or overhanging the curb to imped traffic uh so the 20 feet that is provided here um is is adequate to to maintain that that separation um so we can support that front yard setback and then the rear yard setback for the three lots on the interior portion of the Loop Road they kind of Overlook the the pond area so they have the effect of of the kind of an open space type of thing so we don't see it as a negative uh impact there the uh the 30-foot setback for the structures on the periphery help provide additional kind of open space between this development and the properties to the north and to the South to provide opportunities for additional Landscaping which the developer has done on the Landscaping plan from a a lot coverage standpoint the um this property is in the Shoreland so it is limited to 30% um limit uh in terms of impervious coverage this property was developed before that standard came into place so obviously the office and the surrounding parking lot exceed that requirement this proposal um while not being specific for each lot we can calculate that it is a reduction in in the storm water in previous or excuse me in the reduction in the previous coverage area which is something we always are looking for to try to reduce on the impervious coverage when we can and then uh the density while it is higher density than the r19.5 zoning District um allows it's 3.8 units per acre versus the 3.5 it falls neatly within our comprehensive plan guidance we anticipate the guidance for the property of a low density residential um um with all those waivers um the building sustainab sustainability standards do apply and each lot will have an EV ready parking space and solar ready trusses to help um kind of support those uh initiatives that the is established by the city um I mentioned earlier in terms of landscaping periphery around the periphery um one of the things that we we talked about as we started develop started talking about developing of this piece is try to maintain the existing vegetation along Prairie Lakes Drive and along the properties to the north into the South try to fit within what's already there without kind of scraping and and try to start over and I think the developer has done a good job uh to try to try to do that um the the burm that's along Prairie Lakes Drive will re will remain the back half of it or the the private side of that will be um adjusted to accommodate the pond and and some other features but what you'll see from Prairie Lakes Drive will likely be the very similar to what you see now and then obviously the existing Landscaping to the north and to the South will be maintained and if not enhanced um there's a there's a good size burm uh on the private property to the South that won't be touched uh and that's uh encouraging from a city perspective in terms of a Redevelopment side you're fitting within kind of the parameters of the development or the of the neighborhood pardon me um with that I'd be happen to answer questions but staff is recommending approval of this project in the applications as is Illustrated in the staff report okay thank you do we have initial questions for Jeremy or the city in general commissioner far Mr chair uh just a quick one on the um the private Drive water lily circle at the North End it terminates um without a c toac um it's a private drive right so they can do that is there any concern about firet truck maneuverability at all no no we we did review that as part of our review process it's not long enough to have any concern with that okay thank you right uh this is a public hearing if anyone would like to come forward and speak you're welcome to do so I think Terry Pearson good evening thanks for your patience tonight good evening I'm Terry Pearson I live at 10827 leaping Deer Lane that's located in the westonwood town homes that are directly to the north of the development and I'm happy to say that we are our community Weston Woods which has 58 homes is very delighted about this project we think it's a much better fit than the current office building it's going to be a very nice transition um I happen to be on the board and the president of our board Joe orac is also here with me and we've pulled together a couple of things that we just wanted to go on record officially and make sure that um we're all in alignment we've been very happy with the fact that Mike Waldo his team Tim Whitten his team have been very forthcoming very communicative with us in fact Mike has given us his cell number and said if there are any issues throughout the development please feel free to give them a call and Mike I assure you our neighborhood is not a quiet neighborhood if there's anything that comes up we will be giving him a call um there given that this is kind of a unique development with the Demolition of an office building right next to residential we just wanted to make sure that things such as dirt dust and noise pollution are handled with the utmost respect we know that there are regulations in the city we we are sure that the developer will certainly be abiding by those the fence that Mike brought up we are wondering if that fence could possibly be put up prior to the construction um this is something that might hit mitigate some of the issues with dirt dust and noise um so perhaps Mike can address that um the street is going to get a lot of abuse uh tearing down a building and and Mike had mentioned in one of our Gatherings that there could be upwards of 50 60 trucks a day for a two- we period of time going on Prairie likes Drive I would imagine that would cause a lot of um impact to the road so perhaps what the staff here could do is monitor that and if indeed there is going to be damage to the Road are you prepared to correct the damage to the road um Mike had mentioned that the windows in a previous meeting may have some asbest in them so we really want to make sure that whatever medication can be done to keep that out of the air we do have homes that are going to be very close to that so all in all just wanted to make sure you are aware we are delighted with this plan we couldn't be happier and that's it okay thank you I don't believe anyone else had marked that they wanted to speak but if you change your mind you're welcome to yes come forward can you just state your name again for the record please I'll start off with this I'm talking about trees um I'm looking on page three would I'm sorry would you just restate your name for the record again oh my name is Theodore Melby thank you and I live in Eden Prairie um page three at the bottom tree loss and Grading this isn't very helpful to me um there is a number of trees that will be removed so my question is how many and then it says including significant trees how many they know what those numbers are and I I think it's would be beneficial to the public if you would specify um those numbers it's only with knowing what those numbers are um that you can by the way we have on on our in the city staff a certified uh arborist who is familiar with calculating uh the environmental harm of tree removal on any given parcel of property and and her name is Miss com comr c m m RS and you might want to suggest that maybe she take a look at some of these um tree inventories and use a well-known program to quantify the environmental harm um I see the gentleman on both ends of the uh commission who've been around here for a long time and and our record in Eden Prairie of removal of significant her Heritage trees is absolutely disgraceful and if you were to calculate the environmental harm over the last 25 years of our residential subdivisions being built you you'd just be shocked you would be it's embarrassing so I ask how many trees are scheduled for removal on this site and how many of those trees are significant before you make a decision maybe you want to ask Miss comr to look at this and quantify the environmental harm of removing these trees and I notice that we are now looking at the tree replacement calculations and I said before I'm having a little trouble understanding that and but I do understand that it's that it doesn't come even close to replacing the diameter of trees that have been removed it isn't even close and so I think that's something we have to look at um on the long term for not here maybe at a workshop to re to analyze that tree replacement formula it's terrible um lastly I've seen on the the former um um development and this one we use the term waivers um in in my days they were called variances is there a difference between a v a waiver and a variance apparently there is a variance is regulated by Statute and I've been suggesting that if it's a if if if an um developer wants a variance then I think that variance should be analyzed by the City attorney there is a statute on on the granting of variances you don't have broad discretion um it's limited and and for that reason um I question our use of waivers I think they're variances and um that that should require you to ask for an opinion from the city attorney as to the legality of that uh variance thank you very much thank you all right uh is there anyone else that would like to off a comment okay seeing none at entertain a motion to close the public hearing so move all right a motion do have a second to close public hearing second second all those in favor closing say I I I public hearing is closed further discussion from the Commissioners I guess I have one Jeremy could um could the city comment on the tree replacement plan on this I don't know if we heard quite a bit about that yeah Commissioners uh chair Commissioners um we what we did for the memo on this purpose is we we did our analysis and we provided you the summary so that's why you see the the end result the number caliper inches removed and the number of caliper inches provided um we have the data uh we have a tree removal plan be happy to share it with with Mr Melby and happy to put it on the website with all the other information um we just summarize the information for the purposes here um there are a number of trees some of them large some of them though um are a cottonwood variety or a disease Dash variety or some others that we don't generally ask for them to be replaced um we getting I think better quality trees while they're going to be smaller obviously to facilitate planting um it is within our with our city code in terms of what they're proposing here so that's why staff is recommending approval uh of the tree removal portion and we do consult with the parks uh Department in terms of their expertise on um arborus and and tree replacement and and things of that nature so it's not something we've done just in the dark we do use the resources available um uh Matt over there Mr Bourne is uh is the local expert in terms of any questions that you would like to ask him right other discussion items from the commission I have a question I know there's a new HOA going in and I'm not sure if the parties that develop are the existing HOA has kind of looked at the notes between the comparable hway at The Greenway Villas in Golden Valley I don't know if there's you know covenants or bylaws that's would be different with the new HOA in comparison to the existing neighborhood just so that it doesn't disrupt whatever the neighborhoods how they're currently operating happy to look at any concern that Mr Walden for it no at this point I think the HOAs we've we're this will be 50th Community probably have done of multif family over the years so we spend a lot of time making sure HOA projects work one of the differences between our HOA and the Weston is we do not do exterior Home Maintenance each person does that so that's probably the only difference but as far as working together with them if there was something related to a property line issue then we would have the two associations work together otherwise we'll pretty much act autonomously but I think they'll seamlessly work together very well so it's something we have a lot of experience in so does your do you know do you know if your Greenway Village has uh uh some covenants restrictions around rentals short-term rentals so forth yep I think it's a minimum 12 month they do allow some which is kind of where it is but I believe it's either six or 12 months minimum and that'll be in there too yeah we don't want we don't want be B in there going through it so I would I would assume similar to what the existing one is in the neighborhood yep appreciate that question the other thing too is we did reach out and I can't remember if we if Sarah talked to you Matt or talked to someone else before our landscape aritra to put together the replacement plan they actually reached out to staff directly the either was either I think it was Matt and just said you know we've got a bunch of ash trees that technically are probably going to be removed anyway but we still included those in our removal plan and replacement so we replaced even what we' be considered trees that would probably get Tak out later so we did our arborist and made sure she contacted with her directly to make sure we were on the same page before we got going so it's very important to us to We tend to replace more trees ever than we put in and I think we'll actually see as we've talked about before even the plan you see we normally augment additional trees in later but we want to do those kind of based on what works and we want to make sure we meet the city code and then we can enhance it based on our neighborhood later so great thank you and as long as you uper just one um Miss Pearson me mentioned uh possibly the timing of putting up the fence is that something you can talk with her offline about I've actually got a meeting with the fence guy on uh Wednesday the biggest issue is because of the scheduling issue we don't get in front of the council until May 7th and unfortunately with the lead times today if I wait I don't know if I want to risk ordering you know 400 feet of fence before I get to a plan get approval so we're going to talk to him tomorrow and just see kind of where where does that fall into place but uh our intent is to try to move that along as quick as if we can I can't guarantee it'll be for demo but I we I expect it should be fairly close in that early uh grading process if everything goes well thank you so got a question similar question if not the permanent fencing but some type of temporary barrier or a block that could be installed that you'll take down once the demolition is done we'll take a look at that and I'll I'll probably talk we'll kind of walk with them hopefully in fact I forgot I hadn't invited them to Wednesday's meeting until I just mentioned it before to to Landon so we'll get them see if they can meet there we'll talk about what the opportunity is there isn't a whole lot more than Sil fence which is pretty low that can really be done temporarily that's going to actually last well um and so we'll and there is an existing fence on part of it but I don't think that that's to more of the Middle Air of the building where it had all the mechanic stuff um so I will'll research it but I don't think there's many ways to fix it besides just getting a permanent fence in place and and I personally right now I don't think we're going to be able to get that to probably close to June before we could get that installed thank you okay Mr chair commission Mr Waldo still up here um uh since we were talking about front yard uh widths um as one of your waiver requests I noticed that on the uh east side of a water lowly Circle which is block two um there's a couple Lots uh seven and E that have like a 60 twoot Frontage but then continuing along that same row on the right everything goes down to 56 foot could you just um standardize the width to maximize instead of 56 maybe it grows to 58 or something like that instead of the 62s and 56s the one is we have a wider between I believe it's 8 and N which is where we've got an overflow of the of of water so it was emergency overflow so they kept that those two buildings a little bit wider so I think that's why I think there's a little bit wider in that section and so I don't think we've exactly duplicated but everything's 55 except for those couple the one in the corner I think is 62 and then I think it's between 8 and nine it's a little bit wider also okay so there's a good reason why yeah thank you good enough for me thank you thanks thank you all right other discussion I guess just one other Jeremy um what happens when um construction vehicles destroy a road or something what what I expect the city would require them to repair um or replace the damage portions I think I would defer that to to Carter a little bit more chair and Commissioners yeah we we run through all our streets every four years and do an assessment on them um if there's noticeable difference in this we'd for sure have a conversation with this developer um but it would probably get repaired through the course of our normal maintenance thank you which happened on one of the streets in my neighborhood this last summer and it got repaired we have we have flexibility to move those streets in and out of that schedule as needed so if it were to be bad enough that we' jump to a level to do sooner we would do that thank you right uh any other discussions or I would entertain a motion if someone Mr chair just a point of findings again I think that this uh product type makes a lot of sense in our city um I think it's a growing demand for it um I really like the site plan I think it's uh simple and thoughtful uh at the same time um certainly I support the guide plan change from office to residential for all the obvious reasons that staff and the applicant brought up so I think it's a clean proposal and be good for our city thank you commissioner fart other comments Mr chairman commission K with that I'd like Tove moveed to recommend approval of the guide plan change PUD concept plan review PUD District review with waivers zoning District change and preliminary plat all on 5.0 Acres as represented in the April 8th 2024 staff report all right I have a motion for commissioner Kirk to have a second I'll second that second for commissioner Duncan all those in favor say I I opposed and anyone like to obain all right congratulations you're moving forward and thank you for modeling Good Neighbor Outreach all right one more public hearing this evening Asia mall parking lot expansion 2024-the come forward good evening if you could state your name for the record good evening I'm Lance Elliot with Elliot design and uh from udina Minnesota and I was uh commissioned by Asia mall to uh do the civil engineering plans and Tra study and storm water calculations for a parking lot expansion at their facility as I'm sure all of you know the the mall when it opened has been over overwhelmingly uh popular and from that we've had some issues with uh traffic with parking stalls being full at peak times and uh cars waiting out on Technology Drive or people parking in other parking lots walking across Technology Drive drive and so uh through uh because of those issues we are we've been meeting with the city and going through all the different options of trying to eliminate that and the best is to basically expand the existing parking lot and so tonight we're um looking at uh um asking for approval on on that expansion for a cup standpoint and there are four waivers involved from that um so with Asia M for from the project standpoint our goal would be with approvals we would be looking at starting construction this summer and completing the project of which will be completed by amcon construction yet this year and try to move as quickly as possible to eliminate the the problem the main points tonight in regards to the approval um are the required waivers um which includes setbacks impervious surface area parking and Islands which I'll talk about a bit more in detail the landscaping and tree replacement around the new parking lot expansion as well as the storm water improvements I don't know if you can tell see real clearly on here but this plan shows the overall aerial of the existing facility the existing parking lot that was formerly The Gander Mountain back years ago um That Was Then converted to Asia mall and at that time through the approvals of converting it to Asia m the existing parking lot remained as it was there was a um a waiver provided at that time with everybody I think underestimating the uh popularity of the uh of the new facility the project would in would include expanding the parking lot if you can see what is in red over the existing facility there so all the parking lot would be within this within the property boundaries and um there's an existing storm pond most of the area where the parking lot expansion will uh move into is an existing storm Pond that I'll talk about in a little bit more in detail for the setback for the waivers the first one is a setback I'll just go back to the picture real quick if you see the parking lot on those on the bottom on the south side of the parking lot just north of Technology Drive you'll see where the the limits of that parking lot is 10 feet off of the existing property line the whole existing parking lot is there our proposed expansion will match that as you can see there's quite a bit of space from Technology Drive up to the parking lot but technically that edge of parking is closer than what the setback is so the majority of the waiver is asking for that uh setback um to to match what is existing there the other portion is up at the North side up towards the interstate there's a chain link fence up there that right now has about 10 ft of space and in order to get the drive aisle to go go up through that direction those parking stalls are being extended out closer to the to the chain link fence that is there you'll also see in the islands that one of the waivers is asking for the for the waiver for the island um amount of islands we're I believe the uh the required amount is um 3.5 I mean it's 5% we're proposing 3.5 which basically matches what the existing parking lot has and we're looking at improving the uh Aesthetics from a landscaping standpoint along the whole Frontage that hopefully from the majority of people driving by the parking lot or driving into the parking lot will notice that as a um as a benefit in comparison or maybe even greater than the the islands that uh were a little bit shy you'll see in the staff report that if we did put the islands in per the city ordinance then we'd be losing the parking stalls which we felt was a a bit of a detriment to what they would actually provide for this instance and us making up with the other Landscaping the other um part of the waiver is the impervious surface I think there was there's a discrepancy in the staff report it says 97% it's actually 87% is our current uh is what our proposed impervious would be and um that's just on the the basis that the the property is only so big the one thing to keep in mind is if you look at the global area around this site that with the interstate in the power plant to the west and if you go all the way to the east to Technology Drive that actually the overall impervious area percentage within that total area is actually under 30% if you look at that entire area globally it's a little bit more concentrated on the site but overall um it actually is is less than 30% so those are the main points on the on the waivers the parking um part of the waiver is there's ative -20 stalls based on U the city code the main part of this graph is to show that from the city zoning code calculations it comes up with the 445 required stalls I think there might be one stall difference we have to there's a couple discrepancies on the numbers that will finalize with the staff report versus our last plans just B based on some iterations but as you'll see we're about 20 stalls at a deficit to the city code but if you look at the parking study based on actual uses actual um proposed uh def you know from a engineering standpoint you'll see that the expected parking uh peak times are in that 317 to 344 uh stalls which are 425 stalls well exceeds that in comparison the existing number of stalls is only 294 stalls so as you can see why there's currently a problem is that the total number of stalls out there are way under what the anticipated Peak loads are based on the actual parking calculations the part of in regards to landscaping and the landscape Islands you'll see on this plan that there are it's a complete tree replacement plan to meet the city requirements as well as screening and shrubs um proposed along the front of the of the parking lot the staff report is recommending that instead of concentrating all of those trees and shrubs in front of the new expansion of the parking lot to uh spread that out throughout the whole length of that um exis parking lot and propose and we can do that with a with a new uh plan revision from that standpoint and finally probably the biggest part of this project behind the scenes in engineering is the handling the storm water management on this on this site it's a sensitive area with Idlewood to the South and um we have spent the past year working with both the city and the Watershed in depth with a rigorous review um and a number of uh meetings PL and revisions and coming up with what we think is going to be the best uh solution for this site the existing storm water Pond is kind of an outdated ner Pond that that captured all of this existing impervious that's here our new design will not only capture the the area that the this the expansion which is actually pretty small compared to the whole site but is treating all of the runoff from the site so the proposed storm water system is a full underground system with filtration and kind of state-of-the-art system that will collect all of the water from the runoff run everything through filters hold the water um for uh for reducing the amount of runoff and so the overall um drainage both water storm water quality and quantity will be greatly improved um even compared to the current condition that's out there right now so we're feeling that uh feeling good about the overall design and the uh benefits this will have on the storm water the runoff locations basically match identical to what is currently there currently now the water just runs to the lake and runs right runs to our storm water Pond and then runs right through the outlet underneath Technology Drive to the lake now all of the water is going to be captured into the underground system and filtered before before it leaves the site so just in summary try to make this as quick as possible that um we're just hopeful that everybody agrees that with the construction of the uh the parking lot expansion will provide a long-term solution for both traffic and uh Public Safety and uh appreciate your time and happy to answer any questions thank you initial questions for Mr Elliot commissioner s uh yeah so I've driven by there several times and I know I understand during Peaks season or peak times weekends Saturday Sunday with the Costco being there traffic is pretty bad where I think a stop light had to go in for Costco um my question could you could you come back thanks so my initial question is with the building the space um if it's not fully occupied how much vacancy is still there and of that vacancy what industries are those uh spaces allotted for the from my understanding the the M all the spaces are fully occupied and um the calculations and the traffic study is all based on it being fully occupied there's one small area in the center um center console area where there's a potential mezzanine that's that's been in the in the original um concept plans that has not been constructed yet it's very small I I think less than a th000 square feet is very small but but the calculations are based on it being completely fully occupied which it currently is okay so the building's 100% occupied and my follow question to that is is this the final plan for the property with the ownership group as far as parking goes as far as I understand yes for for the property as a whole this is um would be the final from everything I understand okay thank you other questions so with the additional parking stalls is there any concern that you would exceed capacity of what's allowed inside the mall from a safety standpoint and if so how would you manage that could you repeat the for safety within the building or yes with the additional parking stalls is going to bring in more visitors to the to the mall is there a possibility that you can exceed the capacity or what's allowed inside the mall occupancy for in for inside the building the the as when you look at the parking calculations that's based the parking stalls themselves are based on supplying the necessary parking for those uses and everything whether more depending on how many people are in the each car and how how many people come into the facility um I think those are mostly going to be self-regulated by the number of seats and how many people can actually fit um in regards to actual inside the building and how do you control the total occupancy load that's on that's usually posted inside of a building I don't necessarily a little bit outside of my level of expertise of how that's managed or how that's determined but my understanding like any restaurant there's occup occupancy Max and that that's the the establishment's responsibility to not you know not exceed that other questions right away from Mr Elli commissioner Duncan um Mr chair thank you just a general question about um the exit the new exit so you indicate here on the plan it's a write out only is that correct correct yeah okay and then the other question I just have is regarding lighting yes there is site lighting proposed throughout the parking lot with the illumination plan showing the the candles and everything okay so nothing too extraordinary with all the imperious you probably saw in the staff report as well the the sidewalk within the parking lot that's in the existing lot is being extended throughout the uh expansion as well to to kind create a a visual concentration of a walkway through the through the parking lot Mr chair just one other question um being that the existing Drive-In is uh in the middle of the parking areas is that what you're referring to in the sidewalk that you're getting across moving traffic within the parking lot area correct to it when the when the first approval was granted there was a request of having a sidewalk basically a concrete sidewalk be placed within the parking lot to to um make it visually known by people parking to use that sidewalk that's what's being extended throughout the length of the of the expansion it's in the center of the lot okay thank you Mr chair M yep uh I want to preface my comments by saying I think this is a great asset to the community and frankly Regional so we all want this to succeed and we were surprised I think all of us with the popularity of it and we're we're glad to see the popularity uh with it comes to this handful of problems that you're trying to address um uh one of the immediate concerns that I think we all had uh during the original um application a couple years ago uh and didn't see it to fruition was the encouraging signage to direct people from the point of entry down to the lower level parking there's no visible encouraging signage telling people that there's underground parking available people just want to park on the surface I think for convenience anyway but I I would suspect that 99 and 23% of the visitors have no idea that it's down there still and so when I go underneath that building it seems to be half of the people parking down there versus everybody out on the surface so I think that could help just generally speaking and I don't know why that hasn't happened already um I I take a strong exception to the methodology that you're using to compute traffic counts and your forecasts going forward the it manual with all the nuances of occupancies and the Dynamics of the occupancies within this structure I think the it manual should be thrown out because you've got raw data right here every day for traffic counts and I didn't see anybody Counting Cars in your application which was a shame so I think that the traffic engineer instead of using 2021 data from the it manual and trying to update that to today's occupancy you're looking at Raw data just every day people driving in and out so I I would strongly encourage you to actually do actual car counts in andout take away the unoccupied spaces the building isn't 100% occupied I think there were four to five storefronts that were vacant when I walked through just yesterday um so maybe it's at 95% I don't know um so uh th those factors have taken into consideration but knowing your Peak traffic movements at the different days will tell you where your where your Peak ends are uh with numbers with data that the it manual simply can't do it can't do that it it doesn't have those nuances so I I think the whole methodology that trying to get your target number is misguided um I don't need an answer to that but thank you I'm more than happy to yeah respond if you want me to um I don't need to in a minute okay I'm on a roll um in your application letter you stated that the square footage and restaurant seating has been added which has increased the parking shortage problem um how did that get approved when we already had a parking problem I'll wait for an answer on that one I wasn't involved in the when you say the approve from the permitting or yeah from the restaurant I I wasn't involved in that part of the projects I previous to my involvement so I can't answer exactly to that my understanding is the original proposal was based on based on um uh estimates or when the original proposal was put together on on uh not knowing exactly at that time not knowing exactly how everything was built out so when everything was was put together it was based on assumptions basically and that's um I think there was a it's not a significant difference but there's a just a little bit difference in regards to what was proposed and what the exact final uses and counts how it is all divvied up there's a slight difference in in from what was originally assumed at that time all right thank you the way I read it it sounded like there might have been some uh changes along the way that would purposely add part parking demand that were unattended to in terms of the impact of surface parking not not that drastically changed anything okay all right thank you um in the original application uh we who have been here for a while uh remember that the application included a proof of parking plan like we asked of just about all of our applicants and that uh proof of parking was a parking ramp uh not that we ever thought that financially that would be a feasible solution but nonetheless that was the applicant's choice for proof of parking solution so here we are and what can you tell us about the change in direction from the committed solution of a parking ramp to an expanded parking lot with more than half a dozen waivers um I guess from the standpoint of the challenges a few different challenges the and also looking at the parking lot expansion that the parking lot expansion would be able to be added with without impacting the existing parking lot and and being able to let people can the goal is to keep the existing parking lot open while while the expansion is being done so that that's not being you know an issue during during construction and everything uh there we did look at um the some challenges with the parking structure with the overhead power lines that are running over the the uh the parking lot itself that opposes a problem and then it really boils down to with the with the storm water to get the improvements to the storm Pond and the underground system would be very difficult or impossible to put that underneath the structure and so the parking lot expansion allows for for implementing the underground system uh that's that is from the standpoint of like I explained before um actually Superior to what's what's there now um and everything sure all right have you explored alternative uh stall striping layouts as a uh suggestion would be one-way aisles instead of two-way aisles so the aisles are only uh I'm going to say 15 to 16 foot wide with 60 degree parking um which would narrow up your Bas spacings offering more space for potentially the landscape islands that you're losing or additional parking stalls yes we looked at the very beginning that was my first concept is is there a way to reconstruct the existing lot or restripe the lot or just reconfigure it in a way to maximize the number of stalls and we had a number of meetings with this with the city early on in that process and and I've I went through a number of iterations of layouts with one way with changing the orientation from east to west to north to south um doing the existing Bay right now is like 3 feet larger than what technically is allowed so we looked at trying to even just kind of redo the whole site in a number of different factors and this ended up being the most efficient layout and probably because they may have done the same thing back when Gander Mountain was was designed I don't know but but we could not come up with any layout changes within the existing lot that really gained any dos compared to what is currently there and so that's where we looked at keeping that as as much intact as possible and then adding on instead okay thanks for looking at that appreciate that um if uh if we do follow through on the surface parking Improvement um would you uh consider perious Pavements to lessen the storm water management impacts that you're talking about I'm sure they're very expensive um as a gesture of good storm water management uh especially in light of the fact that we're close to the lake Idle Wild um storm Water Management District yes and I propose that at the very beginning as well especially in some of the Stalls on the north on the West Side um but I was talked out of that from both from Mostly from The Watershed and from the the storm water um city stormw water department just because of the two things the the the maintenance and the ability on the scale of our project to implement the the permeable pavers or horse asphalt or pavement to do that and with the imple implementation of the underground storage system and the filters which are pretty high level we can control and maintain um the water treatment way better through those methods and it's far superior than than counting on the uh the permeable pavers or or porous asphalt okay so it's been looked at and staff's thrown in there cents yeah cor exactly okay thank you uh last on my list thank you for your patience chair and others um if the uh proposal passes again um I'm anxious to uh have somewhere along the line maybe the city council or us add a condition to have you restore the site to previous conditions um if and when the parking demand does you know Wayan or if the uses and the structure change uh just because of the encroachments all around with the parking waivers that's something you'd be willing to agree to I would have to talk to my clients but that sounds fair to me yep okay thank you chair Mr chair one quick question oh I think I remember in the in our material that there was a comment about the employees were being were parking elsewhere and being brought in by bus correct is that happening yes that's been happening and um the with the expansion it's understood that that that need um should 100% go away but um my clients have indicated that if there's a need to continue that they're more than happy to continue that moving forward if there's still any type of uh parking issues in the future I just I know there was another long time ago parking issue that we passed based on oh don't worry everybody's going to park elsewhere and it never happened and just compounded the problems and it's still a problem today and to the best of my knowledge it's been been ongoing and and working and and I can't say 100% personally but my understanding that it has and I'm sure that that can be documented or followed up by a city members I believe you I I believe you I just wanted to make hear somebody say that sure and I if I could talk just one briefly about the the parking study during one of the city meetings it did was brought up about the potential of doing an actual parking count on site um and um you know not to argue or agree or disagree on the the parking study elements or how that the basis behind the parking studies and the and the um that's kind of an industry standard for us civil engineers but the um it was interesting that the pink Peak counts and the peak times when you looked at the one chart with from the study how closely that matched what our actual issues were on site and that the number of stalls in the parking study based on our expansion and what that would add to stalls we were we were at a negative I think a negative 60 stalls currently per the parking study which at the peak times which seems to correlate pretty well that if we have six 60 stalls below um what is anticipated based on the uses and the peak times that by adding our parking stalls and we're now going to be way above what the parking study that this we're trying to meet the city requirements um and get as close as possible to that which far exceeds the parking study so we're going from what currently today is negative a significant number of negative stalls per the current use to going over that with uh what was it 360 um were almost 80 to 90 stalls higher than the than the the peak rates based on this study so we're way we're so far above that and trying to reach the meet the city requirements that it was determined through those discussions that that of and it wouldn't make sense to go through the effort of doing an actual um traffic count because we're exceeding that so much and improving it by that much so we did we did have those discussions though and went through that um that evaluation okay just just to uh reinforce commissioner far's comment about that that exact issue my my old engineering education reminds me that actual data is always better than estimated data so if the actual data is available you know seems to make sense to me to to try to use it as much as you can right so a question along the number so you have 294 stalls now right correct estimate Peak a 360 and we're building proposing 425 correct how many are I didn't count them how many are to the right like the right wing how many you're in that roughly you've been expanding to the to the east on the East I think that is that 80 stalls I believe is in that that portion of the parking lot I believe I could be wrong on that I'm just going off the top of my head but we could count them up but some roughly roughly the overage from the peak that you're talking about I believe so yeah so it's about 70 I'm just saying it for the record um so did you look at not building that whole right wing the you mean from doing the expansion to the right yeah just yeah just internally to at that Peak but that didn't meet city code is that what you're saying correct right and we're and basically was a look at trying to maximize the number of stalls allowed you know allowed on the site and and the the Stalls from an impact on the site and uh the the quote unquote lowest hanging fruit to me would the first stalls you would build would be the expansion to the east over the storm pond so that would allow that's the most efficient the least amount of impact the most number of stalls you would gain and allows the Improvement of the whole storm water run off of the whole site which is somewhat inferior today with the one offset of of course the more impervious in that one concentrated area so the messaging that I'm hearing is that they're parked here the demand is here and city ordinance is here that's what I'm here and okay so their option could be treat this application like a replacement proof of parking plan and instead of trying to park from here to here park from here to here knowing that they could we could give them the waivers tonight but they wouldn't build over those waved areas sorry um for parking that they may not ever need I still don't believe the numbers but conceptu I think that's what I'm hearing well I also um I remember the comments of when you mentioned that that we did have a lot of discussion about parking and signage to dra people down there that was a concern that was absolutely disgusting yeah so and I've been there and it is more down below there's nothing up top so not only the actual numbers we're not looking at but there's also like some vacancy down below that every time I go there is there so feels like we're that adding on to the extra overage to right I mean this is a unique product it's you know we've never had an Asia Mall in Eden Prairie before I don't think there we we had no experience on on how to size parking here we had good estimates from city code best thing we could do um but I don't you know so we we went with that and it didn't work I mean to be perfectly honest it it didn't work very well and and hence a lot of issues have come up so I think we need to get the parking in there now um and and we're suffering a little bit from you know some of these estim during the original approvals and all that didn't seem to come forward and so we got to go back and do something so I I guess Ed you know talking about your thing here I think we had a build for here because you know we did that once already and it didn't work sure and and uh the only saving grace I'm summarizing a little bit here I apologize we're still in questions but the only saving rce is is that we're getting a much better water treatment out of it and it is a very unique special kind of weird piece of land there so uh another followup question is the if it moves forward the far right spots will they is there any discussion that those are employee parking spots or anything or there hasn't been any discussion on designated parking or uh anything like that another another thing I brought up was even compact parking a lot of cities I do work in allow a certain percentage of compact stalls but Eden Prairie doesn't have that in their in their code um but if there's a desire to designate like employee parking in certain stalls I'm sure that's something that the owners would be um more than happy to discuss Mr chair excuse me um I I think it's great great that the ownership group is trying to add additional parking that it desperately needs um I've driven through it there just like some of you and I've driven through there during wintertime and I don't think all the stores were completely filled and I've still seen parking issues um I just don't know if this is the final plan that the group has invested or looked into as an option as opposed to the most cost effective plan for now um I think the parking is I don't know if this is the final um solution um and you know we're talking about impervious space I I'm not experienced enough with these types of buildings where it doesn't make sense for us to allow the expansion so I guess my my final question is has the group looked at alternative parking such as the ramp and the plan that was part of the original proposal and I wasn't aware of that I wasn't here but that does make me question have they really looked into that option and what the costs are and doesn't make sense for long term yeah and I I know that cost isn't necessarily something that that uh uh is usually relevant in some of these discussions but of course I think if you just looked at what it cost for a ramp for this type of use the cost becomes prohibitive pretty pretty quickly um and the number of stalls that you could get in that ramp um and everything so it I believe it's been looked at I haven't personally myself looked at it I was commissioned to look at the parking lot expansion and everything um but I know that that's been looked at in a way that basically was ruled out for a number of constraints and um that the parking expansion as a whole seemed like it would be um and you know kind of go on record of feeling like based on the current use and the current um of the facility and everything that the number of stalls we're proposing here I feel pretty strongly would be a permanent solution in regards to um what is what could be considered a peak number of stalls needed um I do agree that maybe some additional signage to try to encourage uh patrons to use the lower level parking uh once you find it you probably realize that's the best place to park but a lot of people don't realize that it's there and how can we get more people to uh to use those stalls that could be beneficial as well just the last question was some of those plans that were um approved with having the parking ramp plan and having the signage were the reasons why those weren't followed through or was it just more Curious around with following through with those approvals by the city again I don't know about you know in regards to the plans themselves or or um I'm still trying to follow the question for sure yeah again my question was on the original approval there were um approval was contingent upon providing some of the parking plan approvals as well as signage um how can we make sure those things are in place if the committee is to approve this this plan well the plans that I put together it shows all the detailed improvements very very on all seven sheets it's very well detailed so I think that there should be um from the standpoint of Permitting and completing the project it's pretty specific on what the project should entail and and should be able to be verified by the city that it's that it's followed through I guess my question for the committee is do we go back look at what the old approvals were to see what was missed and see if those still need to be in place or not chair yeah chair I can address that certainly if there's there's conditions that are in place U before even this application we can certainly look into any of those conditions that haven't been followed maybe to the to the satisfaction of the commission um so there's there's quite a bit of History here we can certainly look into that um as we move forward just a follow up to um you said you feel this proposal is a permanent solution but it's a permanent solution to meet the city code right it's not a permanent solution to meet what you think is the peak demand well from my from seeing what the impact is what the problem has been from a from a number it's basically down to the number of parking stalls out there right and by adding the number of stalls we're proposing is is going to far exceed both calculated and what it appears again we haven't done a detailed um current uh parking study of of the number of cars going in and out but just based on observation based on us now seeing this for the last two years as an operation that the number of stalls were proposing will will far not I won't say far exceed but substant sign exceed the required number of stalls um to a point that there's a factor of safety in there that the chance of all those stalls being full and someone still pulling in trying to find a place to park should be reduced almost to zero um and again we also have the ability for employees to be parking offsite and having that provision still included that if there that's an additional buffer that puts us at or over the city required number of stalls if you included those stalls thank quite the one last question this might be a staff question um with the additional stalls going in is there calculate or formula of how many handicap spaces should be in place now yes and does is this meeting that requirement I remember reviewing that um I don't have the number data to show you but I believe it is conforming I I we've received some comment that the islands or the aisles are are too narrow so that's something we'll look at um we do allow concept or uh compact stalls a narrower uh uh parking stall so there is some opportunity if we are deficient from anile with perspective um but we will verify that as part of the final plans yes thank okay Ada parking is based on a the number of parking spaces in the parking lot right great thank you maybe we'll go to your planers report Jeremy yeah thank you Mr right thank you thank you chair Commissioners this is as you've kind of alluded to there's some history on this property this is a unique um unique opportunity it's a it's a we don't have a lot of food court type malls um in the community um so that's there's this one um there's not a lot of opportunity for kind of parking to go offsite you know either on the street or on friendly other commercial type businesses nearby um you have Technology Drive that does not allow parking you have Costco that has their own kind of parking issues you have a security goals of the emberson property to the to the South um from a parking you know using that as overflow parking spaces so you don't really have a lot of opportunity short of kind of hampering the business to some level because people if they can't find a parking space they'll leave um or Park illegally or create hazardous situations from crossing the street so from that perspective we tried to maximize the amount of parking on the site which did trigger a number of variances or excuse me number of waivers um that uh we do look at very closely but we did try to balance kind of the overall goal of the zoning code in terms of where these variances fall excuse me waivers fall um and and try to balance really what what the big picture was um so on one hand the number of parking spaces uh does uh it does not meet our strict reading of the zoning code um but it does um meet the expected or exp expected um parking demand um it decreases the ratio of the waiver that was originally granted uh a couple years ago when the project was originally approved we basically allowed uh parking to meet about 75% of the parking requirement based on the expected uses at the time uh with this proposed expansion we're at 95 % so we're we're much closer to what our our standard is um and the objective there is while we are supporting some waivers from the parking lot landscaping and some of the other features we're doing so because we're trying to provide as many parking spaces on the site knowing that there's not opportunities elsewhere in most commercial areas um there is some some expect expectations excuse me of of parking across boundaries you know with like your similar businesses we've written that into our code frankly um there are some expectations that you can park in the streets in in some areas um and you don't have that opportunity here so we try to make the best of a of a situation that's maybe not ideal from from a very busy successful business perspective in terms of the parking lot Islands um we are about seven short in terms of size and or the number so if we were to re if we were to add those parking lot Islands going to meet our code we'd be short at least seven spaces um which doesn't sound like a lot and and maybe it's not but again we're trying to maximize the number of parking spaces here um big picture north of the site you have U mot rway as an on-ramp so there's not going to be another parking lot or another business right there that would kind of detract from an open space kind of a perspective the same thing with uh with the to the to the West uh where you have a transfer station or a a transmission station not going to be a structure in that area U there's not going to be um parking in that area so we don't lose anything by granting a waiver from the setback perspective there um they have done uh some of the things that we've asked for in terms of trying to make this expansion cohesive with the existing uh building um existing Improvement um it was mentioned earlier that that sidewalk that kind of goes through the parking lot that has ex been extended Eastward into the new uh portion of the of the project um it's a it's a painted or a colored concrete that it should pop out from a visual perspective to help both pedestrians and drivers can understand that there's two modes of transportation in that area um the setback mentioned uh to the west and then to the north there's also setback from the south that's really just continuing the existing uh parking lot waiver setback that was established when gner Mountain was developed um and so we're just kind of logically kind of continuing that through um we do believe that with this expansion of the parking lot and the uh right turn lane and the expansion of The Pedestrian way without or within the site that overall the the the usability of the parking lot would be much more efficient and much more useful for the business um and for that reason with the changes that the the applicant has talked about in terms of expanding the Landscaping across the entire Southern portion to help kind of blend those two areas together uh in the long run we're better off in terms of water quality efficiency of the parking and the number of parking spaces so staff is supporting the uh the site plan and the waivers as proposed um and I'd be happy to answer any questions thank you Jeremy any initial questions for the city Mr chair commissioner F on the site plan um there's a ghosted in truck circulation diagram for turning movements uh because of the added stalls especially in the northwest corner I believe the trucks enter off the Western most driveway head north um between the Excel site and the building make a a right-and turn a little more than 90 degrees and have back into the loading dock and then uh the graphic ends uh and so we can't quite tell how the truck gets out of the site U and because of the additional parking and the lack of turning movements that are newly constructed at the entrance I don't see how the large truck gets out uh not to mention fire trucks so I just didn't know what city staff was uh looking at maybe a little bit differently to try and get these large trucks and fire trucks uh in and out of the site properly because I don't see it graphically depicted chair we did review that as part of of our site plan review um I believe now currently trucks exit the existing main entrance off of the off of Technology there so they loop around and come out the existing driveway um that area while the parking lot island has been kind of shifted a little bit to the east there is still um opportunity for that movement to occur it's not a 90° angle in that area um so it's more adequate or easier for a truck to make that turn we were concerned about the area in the northwest of the of the building because that is a 90° or even a more acute angle um and it's somewhat uh it could be problematic and we wanted to understand the traffic movements there okay and then uh with the additional stalls uh up against the lot lines there's no uh landscape areas for snow storage anymore so they may have had to haul snow once already not this winter but last winter when we had some storms uh now there's I I don't see any opportunities for snow storage on site at all so their uh efforts and expense to manage snow um is becoming more problematic um do you think that was adequately conveyed to the user uh their understanding of the snow removal requirements I'm not real sure but that is what was written into the original development agreement and will be continued in this one in terms of they'll have to manage the snow removal which may include Trucking it out okay all right and maybe just editorializing on these parking counts again um retail parking has a different factor of occupancy uh thresholds of pain for their clients as opposed to like an office building A 9-to-5 office building A 9-to-5 office building that parking lot loads up stall byall as everybody enters for that rush hour and leaves at rush hour um retailers uh turn over of course you're only in the store for 15 20 minutes half hour or whatever it happens to be and so the hunt for a parking stall is a a more tedious exercise when you're looking for stall it could be here it could be there it could be anywhere it's not just at the end of the row you're following your neighbor in at 7 o'clock in the morning so there the uh the patron gets more frustrated and would leave um even at the parking lot maybe at 90 or 95% capacity and still has some stalls the frustration of retailers uh heightened and they'll just leave so um I want to make sure that whatever stall we put in takes the other parking Nuance into consideration because of the high turnover of stalls in a place like this it's like Christmas shopping at your favorite store right yeah okay thank you uh this is a public hearing if anyone would like to come forward and offer comments please do so now not seeing anyone I would entertain a motion to close the public hearing continue the discussion so Move Motion to close to have a second second second all those in favor of closing public hearing say I I opposed public hearing is now closed uh further discussion from the Commissioners well we've had a lot of discussion in and amongst the questions but I'll kind of summarize my my view we love the asiia mall I mean it's a great addition eeden pry absolutely love it want to see it work but want to see it work within safe and reasonable circumstances and I think it got a little out of hand for a while the walking across cost to Costco and parking in their lot and that's kind of part of our responsibility is to see that it doesn't get out of hand if if people just move away drive away come in say oh it's full I'm driving away that's a detriment to the owner of the Asia mall but not to the city of Eden Prairie in a sense but if people are parking in Costco and walking across the street causing a safety hazard something for Costco that's on us my opinion that's what we're here to try to make not happen so the initial one going back in a little history uh we wanted to make this happen all all along there were a lot of unknowns in hindsight there was some optimism in in planning and and we bought into it as a Planning Commission we bought into some of that optimism and you know there was an unrealistic proof of parking plot because that was brought up I vividly remember commissioner far talking about that at at the original approval and and oh yeah we could put them up well realistically that's not if it if it was realistic could be doing right now so um all of that's driven well and all of that's driven lots of waivers and frankly I think the city's position well I'm not happy with every one of them I think it's reasonable the waivers aren't showstoppers in my opinion at least I haven't found found one in there I'm a little frustrated and I'll say that again they were not using some actual data I mean this is an operating business we they know what the parking demand is because their car and a lot so it's a little frustrating that we're not using that a little bit more and the worst thing for me um is I don't want to see the Planning Commission in this position three to five years from now so the positive coming out of this two positives I mean of course one positive is we want to support and keep the business and see it thrive in Eden Prairie important to everybody at least important to me and the second is the start water treatment as again as has been pointed out Lake Idle Wild down there you know it's it's a risky dump in storm water into a small Urban positioned Lake you know so I've gone back and forth a little bit and I I think I think in my opinion the right thing to do is support this but that's not without some pretty big reservations and making sure that everything we talk about here is is done you know all the little things are done well to maximize the maximize the success of this plan because we obviously weren't successful in the last plan so one man's opinion thanks commissioner Kirk other comments discussion items Mr chair I'll take a crack commissioner for thank you for that ELO qu presentation commissioner Kirk um I uh resoundingly agree with everything you said um I too am on that knife edge of falling one way or the other and um I just happen to fall the other way and believe that this application hasn't earned my vote uh because of the lack of good parking data I'm not convinced I hav been presented uh convincing evidence um I'm certainly uncomfortable waving the landscape Island requirement all that being seven stalls or whatever the planner set on that um I think the perimeter yard setbacks seem reasonable because of the ride of way to the North and the Excel Energy I I can see cause for that and and good findings um but to put the burden on us as the uh monitors of good City policy um to to wave uh good planning design um requirements in our ordinance such as landscape islands and other requirements uh because uh the business uh has has failed to fulfill their own parking commitment um you know we haven't talked about the elephant in the room which is um if they can't provide enough parking then they reduce Demand by shutting down shops inside that's what you would do in an office building that's what you would do uh in a hotel or whatever the parking um uh demand problem would be uh if you can't solve it on your property you reduce the demand and nobody wants to do that here I me especially I I think it's a successful business and again I Echo all the positive things that commissioner Kirk said about it but that's the elephant in the room and I'm not going to be afraid to say that um but uh it seems like we're taking the brunt of this problem and and I'm going to I'm going to say no to this application because of that thank you commissioner far anyone else like to offer comments I guess I will um offer a few there was a lot of discussion at the parking about parking and it's and there was a talk of a ramp but it feels like it was a little bit of a bait and switch because we're what are we only two years away from that and it's already back and as an issue that we discussed at length um I think the the place is a tremendous asset to Eden Prairie um I'm just concerned that we're building an Overkill and I also Echo I'm I'm worried we're not using actuals and there's no doubt there is a parking problem right I've I've been one of of the people have driven by and just kept going because it looks too full so I think this this um is a unique situation I don't know if we should be building to the parking Cod if that's not what's supposed to be if that's not what's going to meet because it's we're in this problem now and I'd like to see us adjust if that's the case um I do like commissioner far's idea that returned to original if the demand ever changes or the circumstances change I'm just worried that we're going counter to everything we talk about the Light Rail and where businesses ab and flow we build this huge parking lot and then it flows down and suddenly we just have this big parking lot and we saw how Gander looked when it was sitting there just empty now imagine that if I hope this never happens but imagine that with that parking might double the size so so I'm concerned about this one as well I I I feel like it come back and maybe it's like a a phase one could this meet the peak and then there's a phase two Mo or something but I just I can't support this myself at this point either so so this isn't the reality that we can't build out anymore and even Prairie we have to build up I mean the parking ramp is probably going to wind up on this eventually but this is a stop cap I guess as was included in the original request chair can I ask a question of Staff um can you clarify the impervious surface coverage on this slot seems to me that it's mostly covered but I thought the applicant indicated it was 30% so the the maximum in the Shoreland zoning or overlay District the maximum permissible is 30% so 30% of the site can be impervious surface um there's some discrepancy in the calculation I calculated at 97% the applicant shows 87% will get that straightened out before we uh get to the city council uh but in any case they're more they're more than that 30% so that's where the waiver comes from thank you if no one else wants to have discussion I guess we're at a point where someone can make a recommendation either we pass with recommending to city council we yeah I ask another question yeah of course so what happens in the interim if we don't approve something of this I mean the problem continually persists and there's continually a parking problem until we can come to a resolution on what should go on this site so the longer we delay this or um the longer the problem persists and so that I I can I worry about that commissioner yeah I can't answer for City staff but I think the mechanism is uh complaint-based so if the if the problem would persist then a I'm not a lawyer is the right term a ceas and assist order would be put upon the land owner to say You must stop you must do whatever it takes to stop your patrons from parking offsite uh creating uh parking problem s outside of your property and the end result of that could be them closing down some of their occupied areas or altering the hours of operation especially maybe during peak times there there are a number of strategies that they could employ none of which are good for business to to reduce parking demand at peak times that that to me would be the um the response to to a city order but I'm not the City attorney but that's that's my perception of how government would work so whether we vote yes or no does this still go in front of the city council for review or approval y because we're at some point we're providing guidance and our input but we're not the decision makers or the approver correct that's that's the point I was just going to make as well I I I I'm willing to put the motion out because I think we we as a as a Planning Commission need to go on record yeah uh for the city council right and and I think this has been a great discussion because we've laid out you know from our perspective what we believe the issues are and ultimately the city council is going to make the the final call on it and and I think at least in in my value system we ought to go on record so that the the uh the city council can watch this and and understand where we're all coming from and and then ultimately they'll make their decision sorry I question for Jeremy um are you comfortable with the their Peak number estimates yes you mean in terms of what 360 or yes um we are uh as a staff review that um it's interesting that the the direction of the comment or the discussion has gone because while our our city code number is 445 or something like that and then the it number is is less than that which is consistent with what we've observed without counts but what we've kind of observed on site um and I'm most encouraged by we knew that we were short 20 almost almost 25% of the parking when we approved it back a couple years ago we're now short 5% um so I'm I'm more comfortable that we're more realistic in terms of what our numbers are without meeting our city code numbers um can I if I can take a a step back a bit I'm hearing a lot of comment about the number of waivers granted um you know that we have the setbacks for the nor north south and west the north ones don't lend us a lot of opportunity for snow storage which is going to be an issue um for the for the property owner to to manage that um I've heard some comment about the parking lot Islands both the size and the number if we were to re remove the required number of spa or if we were to remove spaces to to re remove those waivers the parking lot Islands or the sizes we lose about seven spaces which drops we're closer to 93 or 92% of what our our city code would require but we're removing a couple waivers um the the setbacks are structural you can't move those in in the sense that you lose Drive aisles or you lose rows of parking but if the if the commission wanted to support the project maximize the amount of parking but not completely seeding all of the kind of the design goals that we've established over the years you know the parking on Islands the landscaping that's one Avenue you can do from a recommendation standpoint uh if you're not going to get there that's fine that's certainly a recommendation but you're absolutely right Mr Taylor you're providing a recommendation to the city council and they will hear your comment and hear your discussion of your concerns regardless of how the vote turns out thank you does some would someone like to make a motion on this Mr chairman commiss Kirk move to recommend approval for Planned unit development concept review PUD District review with waivers and site plan review on 4.69 Acres as represented in the April 8th 2024 staff report all right I have a motion to approve from commissioner Kirk do I have a second do you have a second second for commissioner grot all those in favor say I i i i opposed Nay Nay n um commissioner silet did you say n for the record nay nay okay did you get all the Nays I got one uh myself commissioner far we should do a show hands for yeah just do a show hands the the one two three okay and did anyone want to abstain from this okay all right uh recommending approval to city council all right let's see Jeremy do we have any planners report this evening uh not at this well I guess say I have a little bit so um I don't anticipate a meeting in nov or another meeting in April so we'll see you in in May uh we are working on a number of ordinance amendments including the Shoreland regulations um so you'll likely see that the next um 60 to 90 days um that's a kind of a redraft of of what we've got uh in terms of a shoreline regulations um that's really all I have for now okay great do we have any members reports all right commissioner Duncan the good news is we got done earlier than normal tonight good one to start with doesn't get a lot we don't scare off happy to be here I entertain a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn have a second second second all those in favor say I I iour thanks everyone for