all right good evening sorry about their technical difficulties um we're going to get the meeting started but just so everyone know we're not actually projecting live like we normally do so we're recording the audio so if anyone was planning to watch at home that you know they have to run down here if they want to watch the all right so thanks for patience um calling the meeting to order will everyone please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance flag United States of America the and jce for thank you everyone all right first item on the agenda tonight is the approval of the agenda do you have any requests for changes do I have a motion to approve the agenda so move second all right I had a motion from commissioner grot and a second from commissioner Duncan all those in favor say I I hi hi opposed all right uh next item is the approval of the minutes from the September 9th 2024 meeting does anyone have any concerns about the minutes or want to make a motion I'll make a motion to approve all right a motion from commissioner far do I have a second second Taylor all right all those in favor say I I opposed all right minutes are passed moving on tonight we have one public hearing this evening and that is for Marshall Gardens 202 24-10 this is a request for comprehensive plan Amendment from low density residential to medium density residential on 8.69 acres and from low density residential to parks and open space on 12.95 Acres planned unit de development concept plan review on 32.11 Acres planned unit development District review with waivers on 7.21 Acres zoning change from rural to r19.5 on 7.21 Acres rural to rm- .5 on 8.69 acres and roof to parks and open space on 12.95 Acres preliminary plaid of 32.11 acres and his 16 Lots four out lots and the r of way a site plan review on 32.11 Acres all right with the puron of the project please come forward and I imine explain that for us thanks for going through that long-winded uh description uh hi Commissioners and chair uh Cody dietr with Lake West development tonight I'm joined by Kelsey Thompson and Kurt FM who is the owner of Lake West development um in front of you we are proposing to uh share our project the Bluffs at Marshall Gardens that's what we've branded this uh to date um so we'll hop in and get going make sure this works uh the Marshall Gardens property is located just west of Flying Cloud Airport uh the Marshall Farms is what currently sits on the property uh the Marshall family has owned the property for I believe 70 years this year um producing flowers and and produce through that time um um the property sits on the Bluffs overlooking the Minnesota River and is the um excuse me this photo is a a past photo aerial of the site on the North side you'll see the farm uh which is the open flatland on the south side you'll see the Bluffs which is the treed area right above Riley Creek it's part of the comprehensive plan Aspire Eden Prairie 2040 the site is called out as a infill site um which calls for an increase in density providing different housing types and looking to add in single family or single level living opportunities in this area um currently the site is guided as lowdensity residential which allows five units in area Max we are looking to take part of the site on the south side and go to medium density residential which would be 14 units in area acre Max and then keep the north side as low density residential on the gross 32 Acres we are still maintaining that low density residential as 3.6 units per acre and the intent of this is to Cluster the higher density towards the south portion of the site away from the neighboring single family homes and keep that same Vibe towards the the north portion of the site I think the the biggest point there too is trying to keep that separation throughout that so it doesn't feel like the medium density residential is intruding onto those single family homes um this slide talks about the development timeline a little bit um we started this project about a year ago with staff working through it uh have been to a couple city council workshops had two neighborhood meetings and have gotten to this point um by submitting our applications back in August and working through so we continue to look forward to uh going through this project and then likely uh to City Council in January and a second reading in March with hopes to start in summer of 2025 on construction here you'll see our proposed site plan of the overall development um as you can see on the northwest corner uh out lot a is called out to be a community garden uh we are planning to make this lot available to the first the residents of the development then to the overall city of Eden Prairie residents and then if there's more availability than we have demand we'll go outside of Eden Prairie but we want to really focus on that being Eden Prairie first Focus community garden um outlots b and c will be additional storm water ponds uh to the on the northwest side and then you'll see the 15 vill homes running along the north side of the Crestwood Terrace extension um these villa homes I have some renderings towards the back of the presentation will be 60 foot wide lots and uh provide single level living opportunities with loft or basement options um realistically the main level living will con have the primary bath and and bedroom the kitchen and living and the washer and dryer so you don't have to use any of those other spaces but if you have guests or kids or um any of those other things living living with you that that's an opportunity to use those spaces as well and then on the south side you will see the what we call as town home flats and by that we're talking about the exterior look of the building has a town home feel to it so the building is all one building um you'll see those yellow areas in between each portion of the structures that is above the underground parking garage which connects along the whole building um and then there are four separate uh different buildings on top of that which hous about 23 to 27 units depending on the building so overall that's 100 units there um and then those yellow areas are plazas connecting the front side of the building to the back side to the pool area fire pits and other amenities on the next to the outlaw SE uh stormw water Pond also on the west side of the property we have a community garden building that'll be able able for use for the community community garden users as well as a small dog run for the uh HOA itself I'll go back to um everything south of the actual uh new construction improvements will be preserved Bluff area and though it's planned to be dedicated and deeded over to the city um overall we're preserving uh nearly 60% of the site as open Green Space and preserve Bluff area uh one of the sections kind of the pinch points we got to through our neighborhood meetings is there are some concerns on the uh this connection of Crestwood Terrace to lafare um so we wanted to provide a crosssection of what we're doing here um on the top side you'll see that section showing the house versus the neighboring house to the north of the of the property um there's about a 90 foot uh separation between the homes there are some other homes in this community that have about 100 foot separation so we're still kind of in line with that piece um to help with screening and buffering because there is concerns of building those homes next to each other we have 11 trees currently planned for outla or Villa Lots 14 and 15 and are open to adding a fence or some other features to help with that buffering and screening for that neighbor uh here's a highle sketch of the community garden so as shown here we have about 250 plots and these range from 10 by 10s to 20 by 20s with a couple of small planter beds as well that are raised so we're still finalizing how this will look in the end uh but we were trying to focus this around a central feature which you'll see the top right picture of some sort of pergola or structure to bring everybody to the center um the community garden is planned to be owned by the HOA again through a nonprofit and then we'll set up a board to run that as well so it'll have ties throughout the whole HOA so we've further defined that as we've gone along uh then we'll hop into some renderings quick so this is a rendering from the front of the building looking South at the main entry we'll have a small section of the buildings for management office community area with a club room Library fitness center um along that ways and then you walk back to the pool um here's another rendering one of those plazas uh that connect between the two buildings in the back we have a rendering of the pool area from above as aerial additionally you'll see on top of the buildings we're proposing solar uh panels so to cover a portion of the buildings um we're looking to really add sustainable features to this project with increased storm water improvements those solar panels EV charging for capable for at least one uh car per unit in the underground garage uh the EV charging capability run along the whole north side of the underground garage here's a couple more renderings um this is our our marketing floor plan that we uh have been working on so the primary uh unit type of all these uh town home flat units will be a two-bedroom plus den and these will all be for sale units um we tried to create a a unit that takes advantage of the Bluffs and the view so all the units are actually through units that see both to the front and the back of the site and this allows for those views to be seen throughout additionally uh we have a little bit of a different product type where we have 16 elevators across the property so every building has four elevators and that Services about six units per elevator trying to have a very private esque feature especially since Co has happened and different things to keep that uh safe and and secure and additionally here are some uh renderings of the Villa Lots or villa homes excuse me this picture takes out a couple trees just to for visual aesthetic so you can see the the proposed homes then here's another one uh showing side by sides as they're flipped um to create more space in between these villa homes will have that primary level of living on the first floor um I believe it's around uh 1,800 F feet with a total of around 3,400 ft um this is showing the first floor plan with the Loft again you have your primary bath primary bedroom Living Kitchen office space washer and dryer and garage on the first floor and then that Loft carries two bedrooms and a bonus room as long as as well as a recreation room and we're still kind of working on what the the basement plan will look like so hoping to have that soon um but ideally The Village will primarily be that one uh building type with some different floor plans in between in inside excuse me I think that wraps it up for a quick high level uh pitch of the project so happy to answer any other questions thank you initial questions for the developer I'll start F sure um I see that the flats are all that one primary color uh the Villas on the other side of the street that you just showed a rendering of will those all be the same color also matching or are there color choices to be made for the OWN owner yep they will all be the same color too we're trying to keep the aesthetic similar throughout the whole development kind of monatic yep a really European modern type feel yep okay great the uh the flats um obviously have parking below so that'll be a concrete floor just a totally wood frame structure above that or are you going to go with concrete floors uh a wood frame structure above the podium okay great um on your open space diagram that you had in the packet um there was a colorcoded open space calculation you have generous open space thank you yep but the backyard of the flats wasn't colored open space only the pool area there's a generous lawn area south in the backyard all the way along there are you trying to keep that private for some specific reason no that's just a portion of the Eden Prairie City code so technically we can't include grassy areas as part of open space it's a kind of a nuanced portion of the code that doesn't allow us to highlight that in that section so when I talk about 60% of the uh site being open space or preserved y I'm saying that includes all the grass areas our open space exhibit shrinks that down to basically improved areas that are for use okay it's it's a a code Nuance that Jeremy can maybe answer further all right yeah thank you answered my question thank you yep um uh just minor point about that the long uh Flats building there's only two trash rooms in the basement one at the West End one at the East and so if you kind of live in the middle of the building you got to take the elevator down and then carry your trash for about a block through garage to to put it into a container yeah and that's just to keep those condensed if we have too many of them they get just too hard to to control and it gets a little bit more of an operational issue from doing that okay not our issue frankly but it just looked a little inconvenient for some of the residents um okay I'll I'll wait for others thank you okay other comments questions Mr chair I just have one um can you just clarify or point out the buffer area between this development and the property to the north um and the the Landscaping plan and what it looks like yeah so the building on the left would be our Villa on the top portion of the plan and the building on the right would be that that home behind uh Lots 14 and 15 those trees that say vegetation buffer we have 11 trees currently plan there um we could add a little bit more we get a little bit concerned if there's too many for just spacing issues for rot zones and things like that um but that vegetation buber will help with that and so it's 70 foot approximately between their property and the property line then we have another 20 foot set back on our side so 90 ft in total and are there existing trees there that will remain or will they be there are some existing trees that will will stay there there might be a couple that go away on our property I'd have to double check on that piece okay very good thank you y uh could you go to the um back to the outat that show the full design I think that that one there um if you've had discussions around the concerns about 13 14 15 buting up closely have did you discuss flipping those with the community garden is is that just not feasible for what you plan for the community garden or yeah it's a little bit of a trade-off so I I'll preface with the part that gets difficult is just where that road connects into lafare um gets to be so skinny it's hard to create a meaningful community garden there because it just be very long and short and realistically would just be flipping the the villa homes to beong those other homes on the west side so it's kind of a product of of the design of the road having to go through there that's been long planned um as part of the comprehensive plan and so it's trying to work through that uh we did originally in the plan have a club room and a pool and a pickle ball court up on the right side of where the uh the Villas are on the other side of the road on the east side kind of where you see that drive into the underground garage uh we took those out and shifted the buildings down a couple feet trying to give a little bit more separation and take care of some other concerns with noise around the pickle ball court so we took that out completely uh and then the pool and everything we moved to more centralized with the flats to keep again the amenity areas away from the neighbors just to reduce noise and things so it does just get to be a hard product of that and having the road have to come through here and connect also on the west side of Crestwood Terrace somebody's going to have a home next to them the other part is you know somebody could take this and look at a full subdivision if that was the case there'd likely be homes along the whole north side of the property excuse me thank you y commissioner fire did you have a com I'm sorry did you have a question or comment um sure I was gonna tag on uh after commissioner Duncan talked about the separation between the villa homes and that neighborhood and that enlarged plan that you had up on the screen for her I'm sorry would you put that back of the the the there we go right there I I couldn't help but noticing in the lower right hand corner there that the width of those single family homes when you put two of those together is about the width of some of those larger homes on is Geisler geyser I'm sorry um and so I'm wondering did the thought ever occur to you guys to literally go from single family to Twin Homes so that the the width of the house the structure if you will the width of the structure kind of matched the width of the structure on Geyser and you would increase the gap between the Twin Homes so that there'd be more airspace there now that probably kicks you out of single family to a multif family which may trigger all sorts of comprehensive guide plan and Zoning issues that yeah may already be tumbling downhill uh but uh but I just wanted to ask the question because uh in terms of structure size and proportion that maybe seems to fit better yeah I'll I'll point to Kurt I don't know if we did or not but registered really hadn't registered that comment is what Kurt had said sure sure that's fine I'm not sure I'm the best one to answer it but I'll take a shot at it we went through a number of scenarios you probably want to introduce yourself sure Kurt fream uh Lake West development 14525 Highway 7 menaka thank you um thank you all for uh hearing our proposal tonight and we're happy to be here happy to have gone through what we have in in um and uh to be more specific to fars commissioner far's question about twin homes or duplexes um and they probably would mimic the sizing we felt like um the pro we were trying to kind of cater to what Cody talked about earlier in the comprehensive guid plan single level living not that that couldn't be accomplished in dup Twin Homes um but um but the Prototype we were focused on was trying to create a community that was geared towards single family living which drove the design a lot of it we did come up with some alternative designs of just straight single family housing um which like Cody mentioned it lined up homes all the way across the north property line and as we went through those iterations at the neighborhood meetings um we this just kind of melded into what uh seem the most popular um I'm not saying if you said you want uh Twin Homes I don't know we might be willing to go back to the drawing board and figure that out uh yeah I'm not sure it gets us a better result it it takes away the space that's in between the two homes and and but but uh the long story short is we really haven't no uh we're open to ideas but but we haven't done that sure okay thank you for that appreciate it other questions right now yeah commission yes so um in reference to the flats there's only there's two entrances into the garage that's on the east and west side only uh yes one on each end basically it goes all the way through all the way through okay so those those two little uh curves around the end are the drives into the garage and how many vehicles you anticipate you can store underneath ground uh so city code is two uh stalls per unit we have 200 in the garage plus about 50 stalls at grade for guest parking and things like that okay and then the common pool area will that also be able to be used by those in the Villas or it just be for those in the flats yeah we're planning to have them be all part of one one HOA with some separate bylaws for some of the main maintenance differences between the condos and the Villas but they'll all be underneath one HOA with use of all the amenity spaces thanks Jeremy did you have something you wanted yeah I just wanted to comment on the the question about the Twin Homes on the North side the property was obviously guided for low density residential which is a single family detached type of use um and it originally contained 60-ish or so um in terms of sketch plans 60 um single family homes um that created well it solved the density question and maybe a land use question it created some potential issues with protection of the bluff and protection of the of the um kind of that sloped area um also there would be virtually no buffer between single family homes and then the existing homes along the north side and so kind of in the initial kind of review and development of this project we saw kind of the benefits of those type of mix of uses while still trying to keep the single family to the north side it's not exactly the same they're smaller Lots than the than the neighborhood to the north but they try to be consistent with it from a land use perspective so that's why that was not suggested as Twin Homes earlier is we wanted to Cluster as is as Coda mentioned that the the density away from the existing single family homes to try to preserve as much of that existing character as we could so while we didn't necessarily speak to Twin Homes as a as an alternative at the beginning um we um really focused on what you see here in terms of single family to the North and then the attached family product to the South just a clarifying question so if I'm understanding right was the intent from the beginning to have single family homes throughout the entire development and then we encourage them to shift to this development type not necessarily encourage them but the original the original comprehensive plan or the comprehensive plan guides us for low density residential 0.5 to 5 units an acre and any potential Development coming in with that range would in theory fit the comprehensive plan that did introduce knowing what we know now about the site in terms of the Bluffs and the in the sensitive um area basically the southern half of the site we recognize um the the benefit to the city in terms of deviating from that strict um low density residential and opening it up for potential other uses which was the medium density residential so we didn't direct them to make that change but we were open to that what they had to say in terms of potential changes and the council reviewed this in in a workshop and and and felt that you know it's it's worthwhile exploring a little bit more and so that's where we're at now okay thank you commissioner K just a comment from from my perspective and I've been around here for a long time and the bluff has always been sacred uh and you know protecting that the bluff and so I think you know whatever we're doing and you know this plan seems to go to that level of making sure that we we protect the bluff and and keep that as a as a a key feature in Eden Prairie that you know we have the Bluffs there so I can see the logic behind what you're saying Jeremy on on because just spreading out single family homes throughout the entire area likely would have more and it sounds like did have more potential issues relative to the bluff I have a question uh just going to the about the vas I got a few questions around there and forgive me if I missed it in the presentation but what's the approximate square footage of the foundation and the potential total fin square footage uh it's about 17 or 1800 square feet from a foundation standpoint and then that plan with the loft is about 3475 and what's your price point roughly yeah so the Villas will likely be starting out in the one 12s and going up uh whereas the town home flat condos will be uh 900,000 to 1.3 million probably thank you yep other comments or maybe we'll go to the planner report yep sounds good thanks thank you thanks Jeremy thank you chair Commissioners um kind of spoke some of my piece already but um this project does require a number of of of approvals uh needs a comprehensive plan Amendment as I mentioned before the property is guided low density Regal low density residential in the entire 32 Acres or so um what they're proposing is a comprehensive plan Amendment that that basically keeps the the area north of Crestwood to be low density residential for the single family um the middle third or so is for the flats is the medium density residential which is the allows attached family product and then south of the buff line is Parks at open space and as cod had mentioned that will be provided to the city consistent with what we've required of other projects or asked of other projects so that we can maintain that kind of green Corridor along Riley Creek from um encroachment and for protection and ultimately we envision uh where appropriate trails and other type of features um from a from a public use perspective in addition to the comprehensive plan Amendment um zone change will be required the property is right now zoned rule um which is our holding zone for a property until it's res zoned or developed and and obviously being used as a farm is is appropriate for that zoning but what this what is proposed with this project is is change the area north of Crestwood basically to R1 9.5 as mentioned um R1 excuse me RM 2.5 for the medium density residential which is what you normally see with our condo and our apartment buildings that that's the zoning District that you normally see then Parson open space again another layer of protection um because the city will own it and it will be zoned for uh no development so the the neighbors um can can can be confident that that property won't be redeveloped or developed in the future uh also part of the zone change kind of application there's a PUD proposed the Pud um a plan unit development is allowed or we've we provide that as an opportunity to allow for unique and um unique development that kind of fits with the specific site not just a blanket um kind of zoning district and this is a prime example of what what a PUD does we're flexible we have two or three different zoning districts as proposed on this property we're asking for or the developers asking for waivers from the lot area and the lot width for the villa homes and that is directly related to the goal of preserving the community garden area if the villa homes were to meet the R1 9.5 zoning District they would be larger um they' be you know two to 3,000 square foot bigger and then there would be another 10 to 15 feet wider that virtually take away allot a in terms of ability for a for a community garden and that's been a kind of a driving goal of the the sellers um and the development team as we've kind of worked through is to try to preserve some of that kind of character and that history of the property um so that's why there's waivers proposed from those two requirements there's no waivers for density no waivers for height setback or anything like that it's just the size and the width uh for the for 13 of the 15 uh single homes um I mentioned earlier the Pud process in the sense that it provides some flexibility and allows us to kind of develop a project that fits the property more than just the straight zoning district and this is a good example of being not necessarily flexible but by open but by being open to other opportunities from a from how you apply the zoning districts to this property introducing the mo the medium density residential and the um and the flat product allow us to achieve several of our goals that would not normally have been achieved if we just went straight flat R1 zoning uh for example um all the flats there um on your screen you'll see the the solar panels on the along the south side of that building there will be I think I don't even quote the number but quite a few kilowatt hours generated every day for uh for the solar panels that will be installed at the time of construction that is not not a requirement uh this is because there's no PUD um for the for the multif family product they're they're meeting our sustainability goals with introducing solar panel on the roof of that building in addition as Cody had mentioned half of the lot or half the parking spaces in the basement will be EV ready um the the developers recognize the the market is is driving that as a requirement for people looking to purchase homes uh and so that will be available for for them in the uh in the the basement area a PD is required excuse me a PD requested for the villa homes there will be uh solar ready and solar uh or um EV parking um available for the for the Villa home so that will meet those requirements but the the flats exceed the the minimum requirements in terms of that sustainability Additionally the fat the flats allow um trigger inclusionary housing or affordable housing ordinance and uh we have kind of two models they they can provide a developer can provide a certain percentage of of the units to be affordable based on a certain Ami standard or they can pay a fee that goes to the city and that's that is used by the city excuse me by the city council to initiate and complete inclusion air housing goals um so there are achieving affordable housing just not on this property um that will go to fund our programs land trusts U naturally AFF affordable naturally occurring affordable housing initiatives things like that to help keep housing affordable housing here in inan Prairie so they were meeting that goal which this was straight single family would not we would not get that goal um I mentioned parking parking is met U all the standards for parking are met um in for for both projects e e buyers of these type of products would normally see here in theen prayer Market um those are the main points I want to mention I know we've gotten some comments on traffic um and and city engineer uh shely can can re can speak to those um but I'd be happy to answer any questions but staff is recommending approval of the of the requests that are shown or listed in your staff report uh including the waivers because we do feel that this is a it's a good Pro prod uh good it good fit within the neighborhood and it does help us achieve quite a few of our goals thank you Jeremy questions for Jeremy I do have one question one of the one of the issues that had perplexed me a little bit not in a negative way was was why the community garden did I hear you reference that back to the original the the owners of the farm that was one of is that where the kind of the initiative for a community garden can I'll let the applicant speak to that that that's my understanding okay thank you welcome could you just state your name for the record please yes my name is Kelsey Thompson Lake West development 14525 Highway 7 in minetonka um thanks for having us here tonight this is a really exciting project um we poured a lot of uh energy into this and we're really excited could you just pull pull the down a little bit Cody's a little taller than me all right um so the Community Gardens um really we came across uh I mean the site itself it's been farmed for many years as Gardens um as you know it's an active Farmstead one of the last remaining here in Eden Prairie and um with that we were researching some public benefit um for the community and one of the things we came across was on the city website that there is a high demand in the area for Community Gardens so we have a lot of active members in Eden Prairie Community who are looking for these types of garden spaces um which felt very fitting for this area um being that it is a garden and we thought we could preserve a actual piece of history of this land um which it's been used for for so long and kind of give an Ode to the Heritage um to the Marshall family and that's really where the you know brand came from was Marshall Gardens um and just a really special place and to um not only kind of give an identity and brand to this to the area but also to promote some social um spontaneous interactions one of the things that um has been uh seen more in these types of developments is is people are wanting more of this spontaneous social interaction or social experiences where um it's not necessarily you want these planned meetings um to to an appointment time to meet somewhere at a coffee shop um it's more of this spontaneous type where you can walk along um the sidewalk or maybe you're going to get to your mail or walk your dog or or go to your your garden space um so we're really trying to incorporate that in the design and layout of this development and the community garden Space is really a a wonderful space to connect with the earth grow your own food or your your flowers um it's a an activity that you know a grandparent could connect with their grandchild um or their own children and uh we think it's really special to this development and again to honor the Marshall family thank you let me just ask a question about that in the gardens what would you guess how many of those will be individual plots where somebody is doing vegetables or flowers or whatnot versus what I think of as a communal Garden where the Garden Club comes and develops a larger area that's a great question it'll unfold um right now we we put together a a site plan honestly using um you know the city's design for a community garden on how many plots we think we can get and what the demand is just already in the community um Cody was it 10 by 10 or 20 x 20s in the blue blue is 20 by 20 it's 10 by 10 okay so 20 so on this kind of if you look at this in quadrants the middle being the kind of more gazebo um type kind of community Gathering shelter space um and so the blues are all 20 x 20s the yellows are 10 by 10 do you remember the exact number 250 so 250 garden plots we envisioned that somebody might come along and want a bigger plot they might take um one or two or even four and and make it a little bit bigger there might be a communal kind of I mean Community Gardens I hear what you're saying that it it could be a where multiple people are working on the same plot um or do people just have it individual um I think you know if there was people who wanted to go in on one bigger one I think that's something that could could definitely work out um we've also wanted to make this uh available to all abilities we have some raised garden Planters as well so you don't need to bend over get down on your knees um and I think the demand for this will you know start to kind of um come out once we Market the the garden space and people start to reserve these spaces maybe more people want the raised garden beds maybe there are more of these bigger larger Community plots um like you're speaking about or some individual so we're flexible with how that might play out you provide water to each one of those 250 plots yes so we'll have water um accessible with a just a spet yeah thank you and in reference to the the plots will they be on a first come basis or you have to rent them out or how does how does that play into yep it'll be on a first serve basis um we'll open it up to the members within Marshall Gardens first the vill homes the condo owners um and then to the neighboring community and community at large with an edita Prairie questions thank you thank you for walking us through that yeah you bet thank you do we have other questions from Jeremy or we'd like to go to the traffic report first Mr chair I have a quick question yep um I've heard I've heard the term buffer be referred to already this evening half a dozen times and just for the record I want to make sure our zoning ordinance is clear when we're doing single family next to single family there's no requirement for a buffer right that that is correct there's no just there's just a setback there's no buffering or or screening requirement it's just a setback sure sure generally though what we see in situations like this infield development in particular um the existing resident neighborhood um would request some sort of mitigation to help from a visual standpoint okay so I see the applicants making a gesture certainly for offering in distance and in trees and whatever but I just wanted to from a formal standpoint there's no litmus test where we're looking at a waiver or or performance standards for above buffer true thank you thanks chair uh did you have anything else to add Jeremy at this point no sir okay we want to walk through traffic report sure chair and uh Commissioners um this development did uh require a traffic study um obviously we went through that process as we as we do with most uh developments um probably more thorough than than we wanted to we wanted to really touch get our all our bases covered uh so the the study looked at several of these intersections that surround this this neighborhood um and they looked at both the build condition and obviously the trip generation so there's was some questions on traffic of how many trips was this going to generate um and some of it also compared to what would that look like from we've talked about the 60 unit single family um typically a single family unit generates roughly 10 to 11 trips per day uh a multif family is in that at six to seven range so it's actually drops the trips when you start to talk about multif family this being you know these Villa levels they're probably maybe for that uh um different family style or type they might be lower than that average but in general um there weren't any I mean just overall in general from the traffic study there weren't any operational issues expected I think we anticipated traffic coming out of a site like this that gets developed um obviously we one of our biggest concern concerns was the connection we extended Crestwood Terrace which made connects on to Dell Road on that side and on the other side as well uh just for ex access and some of our transportational goals uh just in the city itself but overall the study concluded that there weren't any operational issues with this as a as a result of the the development and the increase in traffic so um if we want to go into specifics on the traffic generation it's around 900 trips a day uh that breaks down to um sorry just looking at a couple here so then they break it down further into like an AM peak hour and PM peak hour um which is pretty typical so let's say in the AM PE hour a number of trips leaving this site are about 50 uh and then the PM peak hour number of trips coming back in are about the same about 50 trips in that hour um which generates like I said about 900 trips in a day so very very typical very average for a a site of this this large um comparing that to just what would be single family you're looking at about 700 trips a day so not a lot and then you break that down to the AM and PM Peak it's it's even smaller than that you know as far as a difference so um we don't expect any changes uh to the to the neighborhood except trips up and down we're also you know as you probably aware we're planning improvements to Del road which um is driven by this project as well uh providing that accessibility to new uh owners of houses in this area um essentially not allowing them to go down this Gravel Road that's currently there wasn't acceptable to the city so we're partnering with this developer as well and in in some sense that we want to also uh make an improvement to this neighborhood by providing a access to the South down to Flying Cloud Drive like you've seen in the past like Eden pre Road and some of those other plans and projects we've done around the town so thank you questions regarding traffic Mr chair M part I bet there are people in the audience who might be interested in the uh construction sequencing of the Del Road improvements versus the construction of the project itself yep uh commissioner chair or commissioner far the uh the plan the projects are planned to go almost at the same time um our plan is to start building Dell Road and reconstructing one of the biggest pieces of that project is reconstructing the Culvert that crosses Riley Creek it's beyond its useful life and so we want to replace that Culvert um it's a big project to do as well but we would plan to tackle part of that in the spring of or sorry the fall of 2025 our project's likely a two-year span so it'll go through 20 the end of 25 and then beginning of 26 through that construction season as well um likely while this is all being built as well I believe the phasing for this is to build those uh those flat buildings as well um and so the projects will be kind of going on at the same time okay and if I follow-up question I also would anticipate that we're going to get some questions from the neighbors who live north of this development as to the distribution of traffic if they don't immediately go out to Del Road and they go uh north and east instead and end up in the single family neighborhood are those streets uh appropriately designed to accommodate this additional traffic and for safety Public Safety yep the uh the current traffic on Dell roads like less than a thousand trips a day um this is going to this is going to trip probably over a thousand but this Del road is a major collector Road uh we have several of those in town like Mitchell Road Duck Lake Trail um Homer Hills those types of roads those carry 3 to 4,000 trips a day uh this is going to be still on the the lowest end of one of our major collector routes um so no again the traffic study studied the intersections all the way almost up to Pioneer Trail uh in terms of their capacity and the they remain in a level of service a which is 0o to 9 second delay um throughout the whole Corridor so no real issues they did provide a you know they took an engineer's best estimate at where the distribution would go through the site there are some trips that might end up to the east side uh over to lafet U the majority of them 80% are going to go out to Dell and then even some of those will split obviously North and South with you know the Improvement to Dell Road down to Flying Cloud Drive that might end up being the best route to some people to get down there and then go east and west so thank you other questions regarding that I just want to clarify the improvements to Dell Road South to Flying Cloud what's that going to look like yes uh commissioner that that's going to look like what it looks like north of Crestwood Terrace so it's a collector Road it's going to be 32 feet wide curb to curb with a trail multi-use trail just like you see uh that goes along the park North onell so same same typical typical section through there and we're thinking end of 2026 for that completion correct thank you Mr chair I have one more question for Jeremy if that's appropriate of course um just a question regarding density again are there other areas in the community near a bluff that have similar type of density or developments s similar type of density kind of speaks to the number of units per acre right um and I haven't done the calculation of of the other developments but I know that we um um you know this is coming in at 3.6 or 3.5 units an acre which um isn't without having data behind me I I believe there's other developments or other neighborhoods that that approach that level of of units per acre what we found in in some situations where you have single family homes that back up to a bluff or back up to a sensitive area um the the property land kind of moves uh the property owners want to put a fire pit in the back or they want to put their shed kind of oh that looks better in that location and that's not technically on their property or they may have a patio in their backyard and then that just drains over the bluff um an attached family product like we see here we can manage that better so to answer your question um I believe we have similar densities or units per acre in a bluff type situation I don't know another offhand uh multif family product in that type of um situation um I think we probably do but I just can't point to one at this stage H upen Village just down the road I think on Char Village has has quite a bit of single family there that was developed maybe what 15 years ago that was built 20 years ago24 that's on part what we're looking at Hanahan Village okay uh just west of the airport Cloud right up on the Bluffs there yeah right the right at the head of the bluff that just highlights the the the benefit I think of of a multif family product here is we can protect that bluff a little bit better because you're not going to have somebody just kind of putting their their their fire pit into the into an open space of trees or or something like that which we've seen in other neighborhoods but the 3.6 homes per acre builds in the entire South half of this property does it not yep yes so in terms of what's being developed it's going to be more like seven or eight homes per acre we look at the gross acreage I understand yeah I mean you can certainly slice and dice at all you want in terms of how the the SPAC is used but we look at gross density for the property um and so you know while there are some protected areas that couldn't be developed we don't necessarily know that when were creating the comprehensive plan you know when this was started way back when uh and so that's why we use the gross density and apply that number over the buildable portion of the property thank you all right uh why don't we go to our public comment portion of the meeting now um if anyone we received a few statements in the packet and another one tonight um but anyone is welcome to come up and speak for against this project or offer comments or concerns um just coming up good evening if you would state your name for the record please and your address good evening Mark and Beth ree were reside at 9744 law forette Drive Eden Prairie um our home is actually the one that's Illustrated in the the slide that you saw earlier but um I sent a letter to Jeremy did you all receive this letter yes yes that was in our packet got yes so you know what we're talking about yes he's going to reiterate it well thank you for giving us the opportunity to um comment um we uh 22 years ago we uh moved into this area it's a low density single family home and one of the primary factors in US purchasing our home was the actual traffic flow where there was not a lot of um traffic going on Laurette Geisler drive and and the traffic that was there was limited to the residents themselves and so now um with this proposal while it it is very well thought out and um conceived there's going to be a significant impact on our neighborhood um the the um the traffic flow as stated in our preliminary meetings is actually 175 uh cars per day going north from Crestwood Trail onto can on a canopy drive and then I I expect about three4 of those will go to the uh East and then up uh Jonathan and over to um Dell up north to Pioneer and then the other um third would probably go west um the other thing I'd like to point out in this concept here is that the exit flow from the town home communities which is the most dense part of this plan plan more than likely half of of the the the the Eastern portion of those town homes are all going to exit North through through a canopy Trail there um I I bring this up because of the impact um through our neighborhood which we we purchased as a low density single family home and um now we're essentially increasing that traffic flow probably 10 times or more uh going past uh canopy canopy Trail which is currently closed um over to to lafet and Geisler the other thing is is that there's a number of of families with small children one of which actually two of which are represented here tonight um they might comment but there's a number of families around laet drive with kids under age 10 um and along Jonathan there um and so currently those kids l times they'll be playing ball in the street or they'll be um uh you riding their bicycles or you know trikes whatever along the the sidewalk and and and the street area and you know there are some safety issues concerns there that will be um spoken about so the other point I'd like to make is that um in this development you'll see about six acres of Green Space which is the north part of crest of Crestwood Drive and then the pond um that uh is there below now there's only three houses along the um the west side of Dell Road that are being impacted whereas there's probably you know 25 to 30 along Geisler and lauret now from those those four on the northeast corner back up uh to my home and and my neighbor's home um the rest of the homes after that there's plenty of buffer to um you know conceal uh any of that the The Villa buildings there H is ours yeah they do um and so yeah we're our home is the corner one on the lot there we're number 15 so we're being impacted by all the flow out that exit which could be so we're number 15 which is on the corner of the what they call Villas but they're really standard home homes because they're housing three bedrooms I think that's pretty standard house with the upstairs so it's a full-size house it might not have a basement but they maybe are putting in basements I haven't been told fully but the traffic could go 50% or it could go 100% out that exit right there because it is going to be quicker to go that way if you think it's quicker to get on to Dell and go through the new neighborhood I don't think so it's quicker to go that way out through Jonathan and through an existing neighborhood which was never developed to handle this kind of traffic this was supposed to be a residential neighborhood with just single family homes is what we were always believed because that's the way it was owned when we bought it 20 years ago and now they want to zip through what 900 Vehicles a day potentially through there and then the second big issue that we're adamant about is why do we have two houses staring at us right as close as you can possibly get to the property line two of them and nobody else in the development has two staring right in their backyard as close as you can get the 20 foot setback there's barely a tree in that setback there at the 20 foot because most of them have died and I don't know why but it's it's a very thin foliage at most in the summertime and so I've just asked that we move the whole development shift it to the West like 30 feet and move that walking path over 30 feet and that way I don't have a two houses staring at me day and night it's not that much to ask and you can put a few more trees in there which would allow for a better buffer and setback to the traffic um yeah it's if you look at a fullblown uh they have a picture of my house and how it is faced with two houses and nobody else has the impact of the houses right behind them so they could even eliminate one and I think that wouldn't affect their density or their profit at $1.3 million on a house I think they've got enough profit regarding the community garden you know the the developer neglect Ed to mention that this is not all benevolent they're not just doing a community service and providing the community garden they're going to charge per lot and there's going to be a homeowners association fee yearly for those Garden Lots so um perhaps they can discuss that amongst um the city council here or the the Planning Commission um so I I think it's a little little far-fetched to charge for the community garden um SP to purchase those lots and um give all that open space north and south of the Crestwood Terrace and yet have such high density uh in the northeast corner so uh what I'd like to see happen is um if a plan similar to this is is is uh approved we would like as a concession for the city to close canopy Trail to through traffic and you might might say well gee that doesn't make sense because the traffic flow but I I'd remind you that Settler's Ridge has been in place for about 25 years ago in the first section of Settler's Ridge which was much higher density than this um with single family homes only had one exit to Piner Trail it wasn't until about 15 years ago that Settler's West was added and there's a secondary access to Pioneer Trail now over there so with probably um three to four times the volume of people and traffic flow so if you were to approve the Settler's Ridge with that kind of traffic flow density going out one exit you can certainly do that with this development and I'm sure the the families that have enjoyed a low density neighborhood would like to have that um closed off and so their children won't be affected and and to the extent necessary with the the the foliage and the Landscaping done there would be minimal impact back to the community that we've enjoyed for over 20 years okay you have anything else no okay thank you very much appreciate your comments um Ted Melby um my name is Ted Melby and I live in Eden Prairie 11 1881 Germain Terrace um in my lifetime I was an attorney I gave up my ticket in 2014 my wife says I'm now a recovering attorney so with with that said um I I I had a copy printed today of what I think you have in front of you and I want you to turn to uh page three on your packet do you have that 70 pages of document okay page three it was a small one the developers requesting waivers um I was City attorney in Montgomery Minnesota for 31 years we moved to hackin sack and I continued on as their City Journey until I gave up my ticket they're requesting waivers it's a term I've never heard of the only ter term I'm familiar with in which should be applicable to evaluating these so-called waivers is a variance and that's pursuant to Minnesota statutes 462 so unless they have some can show me some legislative act relating to waivers the chapter 462 de determines the legality of all of these so-called waivers so I say apply chapter 462 um I can't tell you how many waivers there are but there's waivers all over every page when well many of the pages which you look at then I want to move to page I thought I was going to go to uh page four yeah page four none of the Outlaws including the community garden may be developed without platting grammatically it would be without platting none of the Outlaws in the community including the community garden Mee be developed my suggestion is what was given is is in Jeopardy of being platted and so I suggest you remove the last two words so that reads none of the Outlaws including the community community garden may be developed page 10 being close to the River Bluff there is a potential for historical features related to Prior occupancy the land that would be the indigenous people in the event evidence is found during construction the developers require if it's found during construction means he rips into something and then he has to report what he found to whoever I think you got the cart before the horse there should be an archaeological study done to see if there are historical features on that land and in an old recommendation to the city um going back 3040 years ago they that was a a prerequisite when you're developing land in Eden Prairie that there be an archaical study we have lots with a grave site on it in eeden Prairie so rather than tearing it up and finding something I suggest you do an archaeological study to see if there are any historical features on that piece of ground lastly on page 10 it's in the airport safety zone for the Flying Cloud Airport I had the delightful pleasure of suing the city of um I'll come up with the name on an inverse condemnation case dealing with safety zones airport safety zones they considered it not to be a taking of the landowner's rights when it was all said and done we tried leveling cases and the landowners recouped $3 million so I'm familiar with um those zones and the clients that we represented were at the exterior at the end of the con shaped zones so we were at the outer edges of it it becomes more restrictive as you get closer to the airport but I'm those were in the the last Zone and they prohibited any one from having anything out in the field they couldn't have a tractor they couldn't have a hay bale they couldn't have a um Garden or picnic table um so it says the airport had no comment well the airport has a safety zone map and I suggest that you go to the go to the airport Flying Cloud Airport and get a copy of the safety zones and see what is and what is not permitted in the area where this development is proposed I think that's about all I can suggest that you do for due diligence and that's the least we can do is due diligence thank you thank you did you want to did you want to leave would you like to come up next yeah come on would you just please state your name for the record though yeah um Becky Somerville 9735 La foray Drive I live very close to where Mark does if you look right across laer drive right across from the Riley Creek Trail that's where we live and my main concern is about them opening the road as well um my son's already been hit by one car well sh up yeah um and just I think when you live there you really realize that people will go out that direction to shortcut Jonathan Road up into Dell Road um so I I do hear them say that it's going to be 80% traffic is going to go to Dell Road I think in reality that's not going to be the case I think everybody's trying to shave a minute or two off their commute and we'll end up doing that um there's a lot of young kids in the neighborhood so that's obviously my primary concern but I also want to bring up that the parking lot there for Riley Creek Trail is right there so you're going to get cars heading towards the development going head on into that as well and you have a lot of people who also walk the neighborhood to get to that trail so you're going to have a lot of people crossing over that street um into that development type area as well so just that increased flow of traffic with with as much foot traffic as there is right there both from kids and adults pets um I just I don't feel like it's going to be a safe situation for anybody and it could be very dangerous for the kids obviously you want to say something um so like wait um it's if there's like 900 more cars crossing um the traffic zones like for all the kids playing at the neighborhood there there's going to be a lot more [Music] uh bad stuff happening yeah I don't know how to put it thank you guys thank you thank you for your comments um let's see Richard copy um my name is Richard copy I live at 9872 Crestwood Terrace I live just across Del Road from the project the first CAC right on Riley Creek um I don't have the concern that the laat or a la forat people do and I understand that's a huge issue but I do have a concern that the city is of Eden Prairie is not pulling things together very well let me explain um your former speaker was a recovering attorney I'm a recovering city engineer I was a city engineer for many many years in St Louis Park so I understand what you're up against and I do think that the Trails the movement of pedestrians and Eden Prairie when we moved here we were so enhanced by that first thing I did when I came to this city about six years ago and bought our retirement home was I said what's going to happen to that Gravel Road out there and the answer I got at the city was when the farm is developed we'll have those answers well I see it all coming but I don't see it being pulled together very well for example I I've been to three meetings first time I heard about what's going to happen to Dell Road was tonight from your city engineer I still don't know exactly the way it's going to be designed as it goes into the Flying Cloud Drive I don't know about pedestrian Crossings there's a lot of trails along Del Road as you know and you're going to have people crossing from Crestwood Park you're going to have people going to that nature center that's up by laurat Drive you're going to have people going all through this area and I don't see a plan for that being developed I have yet to see the plan for Del Road as we heard tonight I heard tonight the first time it's 32 feet wide with a trail kind of like to see it laid out a little bit better I'm worried about speeds in Dell Road you're now going to have a section of Dell Road from 212 all the way to Flying Cloud Drive with one signal at Pioneer Road that's all you got and I my wife and I um we walk our dog and we walk around the parks and the Beautiful Trails all the time and on Dell Road we constantly are seeing people going way too fast going down Dell Road and then they come to the gravel they slow down because if you know that gravel section you don't go fast through that area you've taken your life in your hands but that's not going to be the case when it's 32 ft wide with a trail so I think that should be part of this project for example maybe you need to put a traffic roundabout at Crestwood Terrace in Del Road as part of this development maybe that would help control the traffic a little bit better than just having an uninterrupted Del Road something to think about and I maybe I'm addressing the wrong group here I know you're not the city council but you are a Planning Group and it certainly you've got the city engineer with you tonight all of this stuff I think should be part of this project I'm really concerned about the trail systems as well I've yet to see what's going to happen to the trail along Riley Creek I asked that question many years ago and I was told again when the farm is developed we're going to put a trail from the nature Center to the east all the way over to Riley uh Lake Riley I don't know when that plan is in the schedule would be nice to know that you're you're you're asking this developer to give you quite a bit of land along the creek so you can do a trail yet I see no plans for it when we when my wife and I asked the city when the trail would be done the person we talked to said in the next 10 years well hopefully before we pass on we can walk on that trail but I think that should be part of your planning right now because you're getting the land you're getting the development done you know seal it all together make it all part of one big plan I think it would be good to see my last comment is on the community gardens I don't see that traffic being part of your traffic study I did look look at the traffic study I read it I didn't see any cars uh or any traffic laid out in the study for the Community Gardens but if you're going to have 250 plats of land which I heard tonight if I heard it right 250 plats of land during the summertime I would think would draw some traffic wouldn't you that should be part of your traffic study that's just more traffic it's going to probably come on Del Road who knows where it'll come from I got to believe it's going to be more than just from the neighborhood that is being developed so that should be looked at the other thing I asked a developer at one of the meetings I went to I said can you give us an example of what this is going to look like this Community Gardens and he said no I I don't know of anything he said I think the city has one over by the senior center so I went over and looked and didn't find it I don't maybe there is one but I couldn't find it it would be nice to see an example of what we're getting into I heard uh commissioner Kirk question the Community Gardens tonight his question kind of tells me that we don't know everything about this and yet you would think we would have more of more information more details on how it's going to work where's the money going to go to that they're going to charge for the plats of land what is that going to be used for what is it going to look like like eight months out of the year when it's not used for the gardens is it just going to be a dump dump area I mean and what is it going to look like so anyway those are my points my I think the de the developers plans look in my opinion look good but I think there's a lot of stuff that should be pulled together here that I haven't heard uh being pulled together such as Del road traffic speeds uh um the Community Gardens Trails so thank you for listening to my comments thank you uh let's see Molly and Bob deer good evening if you could state your name for the record please yes uh good evening my name is Bob derer I a resident I live at 9688 gisler road so kind of up and right around the corner there uh so just a couple comments and and it came back to some of the things were that were said this evening uh when I mean uh commissioner grot hit it right on the head when he said that when we're talking about the density we're talking about we did the math on the whole thing and then we we we said that we're going to develop this part but we're not taking that into account and I understand you can slice it anyway I understand that but you can just say well we took the whole earth and most of it's water so it's it's not that dense so I I think we need actual numbers as to what the density is there as opposed to saying we can slice it any way we want um and just something that occurred to me or I noticed while uh Mr Barnhart was speaking uh it might have just been a slip of the tongue but he said we many times during his presentation I I I did not know he was part of the Development Group I know he worked with them but he did say we an awful lot during his presentation um so I just I feel like there's a lot here that the community doesn't want to happen I mean I really feel for the PE the folks who have the houses right there I mean that is I mean why do we have to put houses all the way down there you put all this green space in but then you took that one spot or at least the developer did and jammed it right up against the other houses so if we were trying to do that why didn't we why didn't you make the buffer all the way across I understand I understand that money is the motivating factor but I don't think it should be now I've heard the counselor say here tonight that well if we left this for single family they could just butt up right to the back of it they could be 10 feet away right yeah it could be worse but you don't have to let it be we can be better than that we can say hey we don't have to just Jam as many houses in here as possible and see what you know how much money the developer can make off of it and then we talked about that this is going to go to the affordable living in Eden Prairie and then talked about homes in 1.2 to $1.3 million I I I don't know the definition of affordability but that doesn't sound like it uh so and the traffic I mean the city engineer said that not that much traffic is going to go this way most will go this way but everybody pointed it out the entrance h half the the garage is going to come out that one side at least half so why would they drive all the way across the back so half the traffic at least is going to go right up that trail and and sprinkle through all those neighborhoods where all of our kids are walking and they're walking down the streets and they're playing out there and we're we're just saying well that's okay we can it's it's not that many so we can take that so I just feel that it shouldn't be the money shouldn't be the overdriving factor on this and what it is and yes everybody pointed out it could be worse but we can be better too that's all I've got thank you for your comments let's see Chris Bri Vig I believe good evening if you would state your name for the record please yeah hi uh good evening my name is gpri wig I live on gisa road uh I'm one of the neighbors uh whose properties uh are butting this uh this U proposed development um I'm one of the houses on the north of that um and my comments I think some of them have been addressed by I think Mr Cy who spoke about you know uh this the previous city engineer who spoke um I do appreciate all the work I've attended the you know two neighborhood meetings that were held by the developer um I do appreciate the work that has gone into this project I know the developer and the you know the city planner all of you are trying to meet various goals and uh uh I mean thread the needle on all the different aspects of it and I feel overall the you know the the work and the planning that has been gone into this is is fairly decent uh the the questions that the comments that I have are specifically related to the um proposed uh community garden and uh I think as others have pointed out this was brought to our uh attention at the second neighborhood meeting I think in the first neighborhood meeting there was a different plan and then um so I think there are a lot of unanswered questions I mean in concept it looks really good on paper that there's going to be a community garden people can you know grow their vegetables whatever they want to grow but we just don't know how this will come into effect and I think other speakers have raised the same comments we ask the same questions of the developer we just don't know the answers and we would I would appreciate knowing from the Planning Commission if this moves forward when and how would you expect to get those answers from the developer in terms of how the economics are going to work and how um how this is is going to work out because the packet that is I read through that uh it seems it's going to be a nonprofit homeowners association that's going to manage it and if there are going to be 250 plots will they be leased out every year you know I mean there are so many questions that we just don't know answers to so uh uh it might be helpful to know if there is an example of any other City having done this again in concept it looks good but whether the Practical uh reality are going to be met by the the plan that's that's those are my qu uh comments thank you thank you appreciate it uh let's see Ryan [Music] Devin good evening if you get state your name for the record please sorry I'm not dressed as well as the rest of you but my name is Ryan Nevan I live at 98 uh 39 Crestwood Terrace so a lot of people that have been here have been talking about you know lafet and I agree with all of their comments about hey half of it's going to go to the east Northeast and through the neighborhood and there's going to be a lot of traffic 50 or so cars whatever it might be lots of traffic okay so let's say we condone that off which I propose and I think it makes sense with the park access that is there and the number of kids that I see going through there as I run around not on night like tonight because of all the rain but so if you condone that off where else do they go I was just fiddling with my phone in the back and I don't know if you guys do do grocery pickup from Target and Eden Prairie but they have a tendency to not have everything that I need the best Target that I found is in chasa well the best way to get to chaska's Target is to Pioneer Trail how am I going to get to Pioneer Trail I'm not going to go north up Dell I'm going to go Crestwood Terrace there's over a dozen kids that live on Crestwood Terrace two of which are my own a lot of the families that live on that street are not here tonight because they have kids that are our kids age if not younger so there's a really strong concern that we have of somebody had already pointed out yeah people slow down because of the dirt road you get that dirt road out out of the way and take care of with a paved Road you'll increase the traffic and the speeds I would say that by forcing so many cars to have to go west and I was trying to think of other locations and again the last time that there was a notification that there was going to be an open forum for speaking I got the notification the day of the meeting so I was not able to attend fortunately we heard about it this time and we were able to come and uh the kids are wanting to get home obviously because it's after 8 but this is pretty important for at least one of us in that neighborhood to be present to say that we're very much concerned with the the amount of traffic and it's already been stated by a gentleman to my left of yes affordability is n not 900,000 it's not 1.2 million it's not 1.4 million I understand why this has been figured out the way it is because it's it's trying to make it more accessible for more people and I understand that but as others in the audience have already mentioned social studies needs to be done of the area I don't know if anybody has ever gardened has has anybody here gardened before who can raise their hand so why do we not Garden it's not very stress reducing there is a neighbor of mine I forget his his parents's last name but anyway they live right by that intersection that you're proposing if you drive there you'll see that they have a pretty sizable outside garden they tend and toilet I don't know how many months out of the year and it looks like the the rabbits finally got them so they're not really putting this effort due to Vermin now there are certainly ways that you can go about getting rid of vermin or preventing Vermin but are they naturally safe ways I don't know I grew up on a farm we used plenty of pesticides we didn't have any problems with Vermin but now a community garden is being set up with lots of lots are you going to pay for it who's going to pay for it they were mentioned that there was going to be a water spigot okay is that going to be City water or is it going to be spring water what's the anticipated usage of those lots that's a big question I think is on a lot of people's minds you can put this out for a lot of people to use but is it going to be used and then is it going to be overrun with weeds a Aesthetics to me I don't really care uh so much but I just want to point it out is it going to be actually the good use of that space or do you use it for other means uh I don't have any ideas for you but was there anything else so the question is where would people park for the Community Gardens and I think some mentioned that already as well is you don't really have any parking you have the public parking a little bit south of that out lot sea but then in the springtime there's going to be a lot of traffic because you got to get out there you got to sew the land sew the seeds whatever else You' have to do and then you have to till it and you have to attend to it so where are they all going to park because there's guest parking for the flats there's a very small public parking for the dog park but where is everybody else going to park if they are working on their Gardens I mean right now there's still I mean there's even a issue today when there's soccer games going on in that Park that people are parking up and down the lafat drive I think it is but main thing I got two kids they're both under 10 not NE of them have been fortunately hit um I hope to keep it that way so thank you thank you all right that's everyone that wrote yes is there anyone else that would like to come up and address yeah please come forward if you could state your name for the record please hi good evening everybody I don't have much to say I am name and address uh name my name is Imad my address is 9751 La drive I'm neighbor across street from betham Mark and Beck is also she's our neighbor so um I have three kids in fact I have been suffering from flank Cloud noise already and now was going to be air and ground uh um nois and so um um um uh yes I have three kids small kids and um we live right away um from the um canobi Trail into the U um Royal Greek conservation so in the east side AIS I don't know when I moved in 7 years ago I never thought this is going to be um a heavy traffic area at all the way I looked at it and I never thought there is any there's any be there will be any new constructions in my neighborhood and um um I understand what you have been planning for but I have a deep concern about the traffic coming through the neighborhood into this new construction um um I know lot of uh small streets in the area and I don't want to be selfish just talking about the east side I know some of them talking about um the east side as well again I think um um as I can see a lot of concerns and I just hope that there is a solution for us thank you thank you would anyone else like to come forward speak yeah if you would state your name and address please hi good evening my my name is Andrew Grail I'm at 9888 Crestwood Terrace um so my home is the second home just west of Del Road uh just off of the uh the Western driveway to this to this development um this aerial view is is probably the most benign way to look at a three-story apartment building um and and I don't think it really captures the scale of of what you're building here which is a very large development and certainly 100 and 115 homes whatever it is um Crestwood Terrace has what 60 addresses maybe fewer than 60 80 if you include Dell Drive So currently you know 115 homes is is a big addition to Crestwood Terrace which is already a fairly small um neighborhood um I I think my biggest concern does again have to do with the traffic right we're talking about a lot of additional cars in the area we're talking about a large apartment building um virtually 100% of the traffic in and out of this neighborhood is going to be by car there's no public transportation around here the closest facility to walk to if you wanted a uh convenience store is in Chanhassen the Quick Trip three miles away the cloest the closest convenience store in Eden Prairie is three and a half miles away so none of this is walking right all of the traffic that's coming in and out of this neighborhood is going to be vehicular traffic no public transportation no walkable Transportation um and so I I think that the plan plan commission ought to consider how to discourage or at least encourage the traffic to go where you want it to go whether that's South onell Road whether that's North on Dell Road um throughout that West driveway to this development um the most direct route to Pioneer Trail is through Crestwood Terrace and so this could what triple the traffic quadruple of the street traffic across Crestwood Terrace and so that's a concern certainly um and so I would like the Planning Commission at least consider how do we discourage that traffic from crossing the neighborhood of creswood Terrace right there's no street lights on creswood there's no overhead lights on Cress with Terrace it's dark there's no painted Road lines I mean it is a quiet single family neighborhood Road um whereas Del Road isn't right Del road is more the throughway where you expect traffic to go um and so I would like the Planning Commission to consider how do we discourage the traffic from taking Crestwood Terrace discourage the traffic from going out the East Side through that neighborhood um and encourage the traffic to go on Dell Road and so I don't know if there's uh you know if there's speed limiting things or uh other ways to divert traffic or arrange it but I think that that has to be part of the plan um because otherwise you are introducing a whole lot of a whole lot of vehicular traffic into the surrounding neighborhood um again uh you know this is a big three-story apartment building this isn't this isn't a handful of single family homes here that we're talking about this is a big development um so please consider the impact of that traffic on the surrounding neighborhood thank you thank you did I see someone else that wanted to come up yeah come if you'd state your name and address for the record please thank you um my name is Barbara Hamilton sustad and I live at 9711 Geisler Road I'm on the north side of that development there um just to be quick about it I agree with a lot of the comments that have been made around the traffic and the density of this project I bought my home 6 months ago knew none of this I found out two days ago when I got the notice and started talking to some of my neighbors as we looked it up this um proposal apparently is a lot more aggressive than what was originally discussed last year and a lot more uh development than when was originally talked about I agree with the traffic issues I agree with the concern on um on the upper right hand side there that those are extremely close I would also say though that even though it looks nice on this picture here that isn't a huge amount of room in between the buffer so I'm in kind of that middle um area where that buffer zone is if you look at that whole line on the north end of it all of those trees they're like 80% ash trees and they're all dead are dying so that all of that privacy is going away we will all be looking at buildings large buildings and while the villa homes are said to be mainly um singl story living they're not single story they're intend to live on one story but they're building them twostory and then you have three story all along that whole line there which again my understanding of the original project was there were much fewer buildings there so I I guess maybe given some of the conversation that we've heard earlier that it could be worse okay um but I think it's worth looking at does it need to be this big does it need to have the traffic that we're talking about here can we mitigate some of the issues with the the children and none of this is a is going to be very private while they don't have to do that buffer zone realistically something needs to be done across that whole North line so because the aesthetic will be completely different for everybody there thank you thank you is there anybody else who would like to speak all right I would entertain a motion to close the public hearing and that's set forther discussion so move uh second that I have a motion to close public Hearing in a second all those in favor say I I opposed all right public comment portion is closed uh there's a definitely a few topics I kind of Rose the top is there something someone would like to start with that get little more discussion around let me let me start um I think I'm the senior person on the Planning Commission so comes to me to make this little little talk when we we have big public hearings and um again the role of the Planning Commission we're all volunteers we're just citizens who have volunteered our time to do this so we are here simply to represent what we feel is best for Eden Prairie and two things that I've learned on being on on the Planning Commission one is the city invests a lot of resources in doing their homework on developments like this Jeremy and his team but also engineering and parks and wreck are very heavily involved we have representation at all of our meetings from those parts and you'd be amazed at how much time and effort goes in and I think when I came on the Planning Commission I had no concept of that and frankly from some of the questions we've gotten today you know you haven't had the opportunity to see that either so there is a lot of homework that's done and and a lot of work that goes into this this has been going on for a year right Jeremy this project so there's been a you know a Year's worth of on and off effort on this project so a lot of work a lot of thinking goes into it um secondly one thing that a lot of people forget about is you know we talk about the developers you know and how the developers are are making a lot of money I I'm not going to even comment on that the bottom line is the owner of this property has rights just like the people who live around the property have rights and it's important that we look for good balance and good balance in the owner being represented what the city wants to do being represented and obviously what the neighborhood wants and what's the impact on the neighborhood but it isn't all one or the other it's a balance there and that's what our job is to do here is to try to take in the input and the importance of these public hearings is is huge and and I'm glad we had as many people as we had and I'm glad we have all the comments because it gives us insight into things but our job ultimately is to take this have a discussion uh and ultimately make make a vote but we don't make the final decision the city council does so what the city council is going to do is learn from what's going on here and then they're going to have their own public hearing and you'll have another opportunity to do that to to have your input into it so this is a very public process and the thing that I keep trying to remember is it's a balanced process it has to be a balanced process there are a lot of players in here and we have to take the input from all of the players and come out with the best solution and as we all know when that happens not everybody's going to be perfectly happy with with every aspect of the solution and if everybody's relatively happy and only a little bit unhappy about certain things then we probably done our job so that's my soap box and I'll get off of it right now and let us get to addressing some of the issues thank you commissioner Kirk um is someone commissioner fire did you want to I'll I'll try um I I think in my notes the two most popular reoccurring topics were uh traffic especially through that existing Northern neighborhood um and uh you know just let it be known right away Public Safety is one of our key most important things we look for and I know it's number one on staff's issue so Public Safety is Paramount in our city nobody wants to do anything dangerous especially to our children uh the other one is the lack of detail I think on the gardens area there's a lot of questions about the gardens I I that was unexpected to me coming in tonight but um but it really resonated with me when one of you um I forget who but thank you said what is it going to look like in wintertime um the applicant's landscape plan uh leave leaves it open in other words there's no Landscaping proposed within the Garden area um thinking that it would all be garden plots and sure it would go to phow during the during the off season um you know maybe it could be more than that and and I'm not going to tell the applicant what he ought to do or things like that but it sounds like it's evolving the ideas haven't gelled yet uh he may want to speak to that further or he or she um it could be a University of Minnesota Landscape arborium type of A Gathering Spot where that Central gazebo that was on the TV here uh maybe was enhanced uh to be something more of an open space where people could gather kind of like the mayor Harris Pavilion if you know where that is um uh over by the uh uh the bus stop end of the Terminus of the light rail um but so so those two main topics so I I would say that uh we as a Planning Commission U maybe could offer some uh comments back to the applicant talking about how he or we should think that that Community Garb Garden should be defined more maybe for Council um in terms of maybe there are some fixed features that are there or they at least um come up with more of a concept on how it's going to evolve if there's not an appetite for a lot of people taking it and there's some extra space you know what happens what if it's really successful and they're become a parking problem there's a parking lot across the street at the park but gee that's for the park right kids soccer games things like that so so maybe there ought to be a proof of parking plan at the Garden area in anticipation of there being demand from outside of this local community there's probably enough demand here but nobody knows that so so I think the point is well taken that let's prepare oursel for what it would take to Park some cars what it would take to make a public amenity space a fixed public amenity space there so that maybe they plant some pine trees so that thing looks pretty good in the wintertime um so I think maybe just some thoughtfulness on their behalf to come back with something I think would be an appropriate gesture maybe not to this body but to councel um and uh and just going back on the public safety thing the the other one that I started out talking about you know I heard a lot from the city engineer about uh relatively relatively low traffic counts there's a lot of acres here and whether it's single family or multif family there's going to be cars of course uh nobody's going to be walking to Eden Prairie Center um there's going to be cars but um streets by their design when people design streets and cities all of your streets are vastly overdesigned my my street that I live on my my daughter grew up on this just like your children are now and Prairie and so we were careful of course sometimes they run out into the street and that's parenting right so um so we have sidewalks to convey pedestrians and we have streets to convey cars there's more than enough capacity for cars uh if speeder speeding is a problem that's why we have enforcement rules and you can call people for that um the connectivity that they're showing to walk pedestrians over to of course the Riley Creek Park there's a the parking lot there that's just off that diagram to the right there of course U on that first street is a pronounced Le for something sorry if I mispronounced that um so I I think you know these people that are going to buy these homes are going to be your neighbors they may come over and borrow a cup of sugar they may share your sidewalk they may drive past your house and you're welcome to drive past their house as well they're going to be your neighbors they're going to be your friends so we don't want to make this an adversarial situation um so that that's my thing about public safety and and and I would recommend further dialogue with the applicant on having them come up with a little more um strategic information on how that Garden is going to come together thank you commissioner far would you like to offer some comments about the garden no Kelsey so again Cody dietr speaking with Lake West and Kelsey Thompson um couple things we can talk about on that piece so um you guys may have found it in your over long packet of items but we put together a couple weeks ago a memo basically detailing out how we expect the Community Gardens to run so ideally it's going to be broken into about four quadrants and we're going to build it out in phases so as we fill the first phase up so let's call that 75 plots then we'll go on to the second phase and go on and on as we get more demand until that time it'll remain open Green Space um the plan is to have fencing around it we'll add additional trees for Aesthetics to try to make it additionally pleasing um and then going back to the operation of it it will be in that nonprofit uh we will not be taking any money from it it will be meant to the fees will be meant to maintain and operate the community garden itself so there'll be likely an Initiation fee and they're looking at a multi- lease uh multi-year lease structure to make sure people are invested in coming back to take care of the gardens if they are unable to or don't maintain their Gardens we will send them violations find them and or remove their lease terms so we typed up some some general terms in that that'll be further defined in the nonprofit as we get moving forward um and the plan for the gardens then is to to be tilled at the start of the year for the whole overall Gardens and then at the end of the year clean it up and till it again so it's left as kind of a tilled land um during the off seasons and just open area so it's it's planned out in in that sense there's a couple things of you know do we make the plots a little bit larger do we make a little bit less of them how do we go about that so those are the main things we're still trying to work through and how that piece works on the parking piece we have 13 or 14 stalls in that public parking section down by the dog park those are Geared for that community garden center and the community garden which are in tandem um the dog run itself will be just for the HOA it's not going to be a public dog park for the community so that's going to be a private dog park that will be people parked in the garages um or on their own properties additionally Crestwood Terrace extension will allow for parallel parking along the South Side in the street so we have additional parking there cuz the street will be built wide enough for that piece so let's call it 30 or 40 stalls to Service 200 and some plots um not everybody's going to be gardening at the same time you know you may not come out every day you might come out once every three days four days so we feel comfortable with that piece um additionally we've been working with the Minnesota Arbor edum on talking them their master or Gardner on how to set this up further so Kelsey's had a lot more of those conversations and can add to that piece if you want to sure um yeah we've been working with the extension program and using their best practices and research um not only for the community garden space but just for the Landscaping plans overall um so talking about the dead and uh dying ash trees along the perimeter um you know we are planning to plant you know more um climate resilient um plants that are able to to thrive and changing climate um providing ecosystem support for the local um environment requiring lower maintenance uh lower use um and having a higher Pest and disease tolerance um we also have been um exploring you know if some backup plans like if there is not a high demand for the community garden let's say 150 plots are um leas and there's some additional Green Space what can what can that additional Green Space be used for um and let's face it you know half the year there will be snow on the ground um so it'll look like just you open space um that's not being used as a community garden for during the winter months um and then I think Aesthetics came to another piece of that so again we'll try to have perimeter plantings and or Tree Boulevard trees around the perimeter we have to be careful because we can't plant trees in the drainage and utility utility easements which Run 10 feet on the perimeter of the property it's an outlaw so there's some different pieces to that um you'll see the picture up top and that's really what it's meant to look like is something along those lines different people are going to plant flowers some are going to plant produce it's going to be a mix of all different things and that's the the beauty in it really is you can be creative to how you want what fits your LIF style so um we we have heard from um different other community gardens here in inan Prairie that they get sold out typically every year so there seems to be a demand um we did talk to the city originally about potentially trying to donate it to the city for use but there wasn't an interest in that so we're we still want to keep that we still believe in the mission of that and keeping the Legacy tied to the Marshall family so that's where that comes from so and again we can shape shift a little bit downsize it but um really trying to figure out how to have that self operating it'll be tied to the HOA and then be ran by a portion of the board of people who are invested in that portion of the community that are gardeners themselves so there'll be some back stops to help protect that but we can shift that and pull it as it as it evolves and makes sense are there questions around the garden I didn't see the community garden memo that you referenced in our packet I don't I don't think we got that so you're aware that we did not receive that so we're not good Jer yeah I received it that was kind of digging into the management of the community garden which we don't normally get into as a Planning Commission so did provide that um we were we wanted to be sure that um that proper steps or development of how that would work uh has been is being worked through and obviously the City attorney will review that with the HOA documents as part of the final approval uh but from a planning P Planning Commission perspective um that was kind of beyond our scope I I would I would just throw my two cents in and just maybe just push your button a little bit harder on this um it looks like it was laid out by an efficiency expert that be me right okay uh I'll grd it out like that this is a large piece of dirt M how many acres 2.2 to 2.5 okay it's just when you start doing the 10 by 10 those it's only 100 square feet and there's 43,000 square feet in an Acres so it's sure sure sure yeah I don't have to plant my patunas in a row I can make them curve around a little bit and I and I think if someone had a guiding principle plan for this have a landscape architect play with three acres and come up with something creative um it could be something fantastic without adding a lot of money put some trees in there for god sakes well there could be some parts too where we we plant it or the the overall nonprofit plant certain sections of it to because it gets hard to manage as it gets staked out and who owns what and everything along those lines once you're in the operation phase of it so maybe there's some parts that are communal and those are managed by the overall nonprofit to curve it around and add some features and then centralized portions or west east whatever you want to call it gets actually leased out by people so there could be some different ways but we can definitely explore that sure sure um and I shouldn't draw a parallel to a cemetery but think of a cemetery right there's trees and grass and there's wandering paths in a cemetery you you can do that with a garden pretty easily yep instead of solving an efficiency problem so I just push a little bit harder on that okay thank you thank you commissioner fire other questions around the Garden or commissioner tell one question about the garden so if if you were to do away with the garden and not even have it at all were there any other options you looked [Music] at sorry what was the question if we did away or you did away with the garden was there any other options you took a look at adding more homes so it it take took a few more homes away um and then additionally it provided that buffering and that green space and just more open space in general so we just thought that very important again to the Heritage piece but if that were gone it would be three or four more homes Five whatever the number is if I could comment I mean I would welcome a plan I know you've done many plans but I would welcome a plan I know we're not going to fully make Mr and Mrs uh ree comfortable but if there was a way to remove that garden and move the Villas to the west and bring Villas 9 through 15 to the South that might create more buffer and be less obtrusive than the plan that I've seen here I think this plant could be reworked and this whole concept could be moved to the South and cause some of the current owners a lot less heartache we're not going to make them all happy and that's not our job here we're not in the happiness business we're trying to make a reasonable recommendation for the development can I ask just a clarifying question when you say South I I don't follow the South because there's not really well plan plan South West so I want to see a plan with the outlaw a gone and the Villas moved everything move west and do West toward the garden yes that's where I was going commissioner sh to the left so South is the road so that's where I bill is 9 through 15 would Co down away from Mr Reese's home I I have a question um that was going to be my initial question was is there and I'm sure there's a good reason whether it's the slope or maybe it's the trees you don't want to take down but where vas's 12 through 15 are and where the flats are is there a reason why you couldn't go more South where it's going more Northeast we are uh as you see it kind of turned to the the um the non colored Shade that's the bluff line okay so if we go any further south we start tearing up buff Bluff trees and have issues that way so the Bluffs are really what's driving a lot of that piece and that's a product of connecting the road and so that all works together it's been trying to find tweak that but the possibility of Shifting the homes to the West towards the garden moves the homes all of them further west reducing the size of the garden right that's exactly in the garden yeah exactly right understood and I know we're just spitballing here each one of us but just literally um if you trade off the Green Space south of Crestwood Terrace between your easternmost Flats building and Crestwood Terrace you've got that green space I'll call it a buffer on South side of your road right okay that looks like it's about I'm going to say 40 feet mhm okay take 20 or 30 of that out of there put it in 13 14 and 15's backyard and and that buffer zone now all of a sudden becomes more valuable in terms of a site solution so so the issue with that is all of a sudden then we encroach the setbacks and we trigger about five more things with the Pud for the multi family what's that back what was that what's that back front building setback from the multif family to the Crestwood Terrace Road let's have Jeremy jump in quick I I think but we should be cautious about as a commission is trying to redesign the project at the de I think it's better to identify your concerns as commission um and let the developer come back with solutions for that or reasons why that can be met but uh I don't see a lot of benefit gained by redesigning it at the stage uh at the table certainly the developer can can make changes and and frankly does but um there's a lot of pushing and pulling and I don't know if we're being productive at this stage fair enough thanks can I make a comment just to that um so part of the reason that the open space is needed right is because of the waivers so correct me if I'm wrong here and I'm I'm new to the commission so forgive me um so we're going from a low low density to a medium density and then even with the medium density r19.5 there are 12 of the 15 lots that require waivers even from that and if I'm understanding correctly then if you have so many waivers then that requires that initiates the Sustainable Building standards which then requires the EV the solar no um and then the community garden is that correct am I reading that right no there's there's a lot of things kind of used together there um the the applicant is requesting waivers from the lot area in the lot withd requirements for the single family product the r19.5 so that's the straight zoning with some modification with some waivers which our PUD process allows flexibility from the strict rating not a variance but a waiver part of the justification this why staff can support the waivers is because we're retaining some of that Community open space because if we didn't have those waivers then those lots would be you know 9500 ft and wider and then virtually be no community garden space and it is somewhat important I believe that the community garden space be visible or else it's forgotten and it's in somebody's backyard and he gets kind of encroached so we have the waivers and that's how it was set up um there's no waivers proposed for the multifam product um that's where the comprehensive plan Amendment comes in to allow that type of product there they they do meet the RM uh 2.5 zoning District requirements setbacks density height all of those things are satisfied there with no waivers does that answer your question yeah but I think I'm not clear on the Sustainable Building standards okay the the requested waivers initiate the Sustainable Building isn't the garden part of that not spe specifically as a list but it's part of when when you look at a when you look at a PUD uh and to offset the waivers you look at what's the overall benefit to the community the balance the balance and in this case the the community garden area is part of that balance when there's a waiver though so we have kind of a a desired goal uh as kind of on one side of The Ledger we also have requirements and when you have a waiver um in a PUD when you have a waiver there's certain requirements they have to meet which is solar ready you know the structures have to be solar ready um there's EV parking requirements that's a requirement there's also there's some other building kind of Standards there the multifam product is not a waiver there's no PUD but they are providing those sustainability goals that we have the solar P panels and the EV charging kind of extra that's Again part of that balance that justifies the the Pud on the North side so community garden sustainable features on the the multifam that the amount of open space the uh concessions made on the rideway all of those things kind of kind of help calculate for a benefit to the community in support of the waiver and Jeremy isn't it isn't it fair to say on these infill developments like this that waivers such as what we're giving and the trade-off waivers you know the trade-offs that you talk about Are Not Unusual at all I I think many of the projects we've been doing in fact I drove through the the project right there on the corner of Dell and and Pioneer Trail you know because that's buil out and that was a project that came through here what about a year year and a half two years ago and that had waivers on almost all the Lots on SI size lit yeah it's not uncommon to have waivers in an infield project not it's not guaranteed but what we for is again how it fits and in what the balance is what's the balance yeah and I guess I'm maybe not being clear I'm not concerned about that as much as I'm trying to get at the size of the community garden is relation to the size of the single family lots and it's not a one to one ratio there's no there's no prescribed minimum rate ratio it's the the the package proposed by the development it does that help justify the the the waivers requested maybe I could interject if if um well and the only reason I'm asking all this is because it seems like some of this is tied together or there's also comments being made about the garden about the density about the um other things and they all seem to be correlated together maybe they're not but that's the way I interpreted the staff report anyway go ahead thank you thank you um so one of the things that we add ask ourselves when we came to this site and you can imagine we weren't one of the we weren't the only developer who came to the Marshalls with plan what set us apart from other developers was that we came forth with a plan that was super green it's this a new green initiative I shouldn't say it's new but it's uh a newer standard that we're seeing especially in cities you know the urban sprawl as you can see in in Greater Eden Prairie is maximizing hard cover so what's the opposite of maximizing hard cover and that's to leave some open Green Space not just like a little pocket for a dog park which we have which Cody really made sure we had um but that we had some substantive open Green Space that can be enjoyed not just by our residents but by the community it's a community building experience so when you're asking you know is there some calculation this was something that the developer you know we could put building there or we could make it smaller we could add more you know units but but this was a I would call it a gift or you know it's a community benefit Something That We're providing that we didn't have to provide um such a large subst of open Green Space as well as giving the neighbors to the north this spatial separation that they're currently used to um as well as you know when people are driving down Del Road they're currently used to seeing this open Green Space and driving past a farm and that's something I think that's super special and unique and creative the different entities that we've had discussions with this is a celebrated and I think going to be a very well celebrated um development by the community members as well we hear the concerns of traffic definitely hear those concerns um and we've had many conversations um with with the neighbors and outside of neighborhood meetings and um you know addressing this these different concerns um and the traffic you know is something that really is out of our control as this road plan was designed by the city um I think as part of their you know larger road maps um and with the Community Gardens um you know we're just trying to do something that's preserving the history of the land that is there today honoring the Marshall family who've tended to this this land for so many years um and again just providing that that benefit um so is it all connected it is all connected um but there's not like some formula that we came up with with how much exact community garden space if that answers a little bit of your question or addresses a little bit of what you're trying to get to yeah okay Mr chair yes we ask the city engineer to chime in on the um desire for the city to have a through road all the way through versus terminating uh Crestwood Terrace and a culdesac at the East End sure uh chair and Commissioners um you know staff's position on infill developments and making Road Connections um the project you mentioned uh before um this road that lafet would Connect into dead ended into the empty Farmland um there a planned Connection in our comprehensive plan I believe um the street that follows through here follows our city specs standards 28 foot back to back there would be allowed parking on the road just like on the north roads uh that would honestly mimic the same design as this road um this were built with all of those developments to the north again you know you've heard this before but um there wouldn't be this conversation uh there was a mention earlier of another development that happened uh where they then extended the road and and added another connection um it's always our preference like I said it's our one of our um city work plan goals is to make roads accessible um things like that this would be a long call sack uh with with the units that are on there um it comes down to Public Safety again uh access to police fire ambulances those types of things um so we're going to push for that it's going to be staff's recommendation to keep that connection in there I get that there's going to be added traffic in there just like the other neighbors that drive by everyone's house uh north of there that go on Jonathan or gisler uh those roads um but we want we want to provide that connection ction through there okay and I'm sorry could you just dwell on one more point for me you said the road with on Crestwood Terrace and did you say parking would or would not be allowed on the side of the road parking would be allowed we don't have plans for to no Park this uh as you can imagine there's plenty of parking for the uh apartment complex they have all the parking underneath and guest parking we don't anticipate a ton of parking so the point of parking uh on the road for some of this community garden makes sense they also had the parking parking lot for that um The Villas have two car garages and space for two cars in their driveway as well so of course people have parties and people park on the road and that would be completely allowed just like every other Street in this neighborhood thank you very much appreciate that Clarity have a question on the other development down the street I'm forget the name of it uh what was it Kinsley Kinsley Kinsley yeah did the city Council remove the road the through fair when it was approved I feel like it did so they came up with an option where they they maintain the RightWay that went all the way through so essentially the city has an option to continue that through in the future um but the road itself terminates into that development um not as long as this would be from a culde standpoint but still they lost a connection to a neighborhood a Valley Road that was planned as well from years before and is there is there anything different about this site where that's not an option or something they could consider besides the length of the CAC um that would be here with that dead end but can you add another Outlet to Dell uh where the other garage empties out um like from a sight distance standpoint that wouldn't be recommended there's quite a drop off there actually our city project shows a about a 10 to 15 foot retaining wall on that corner okay um just because it drops off so far so connection there would be tough um and I'm sorry no I'm done thanks my apologies okay good and maybe there are some questions about how that garage circulates underground there's an entrance exit on the left the west and an entrance exit on the right the East and so I interpret your plans as it is two-way people can drive in or out either Exit you could drive straight through if you wanted to and somebody could drive across this two-way traffic exactly yeah yeah exactly there may have been an inference by one of our speakers who may have thought that everybody entered on the west and exited on the East that's not necessarily the case you have your choice yep so if you're coming down Dell you might choose to go in the west and just drive through the parking Rod way instead of come to the other end like right could happen maybe not likely but right um the other part we you know didn't really talk about is our target market is going to be really empty nesters in a little bit of an older demographic so they're not going to have as many car trips they're they're not going to use their car as much as you'd see a family so when you start comparing single family homes to apartments and the IT calculations it gets to be a little bit different so yeah okay all right thank you and I just wanted to make a comment somebody made a uh query as to the um consolidation of projects I guess why why aren't we reviewing everything at once and I I certainly fully understand this is a private development project application that's why it's in front of our Planning Commission and the public improvements that go along with the Del Road design I don't know where where the design of Del Road improvements are I'm sure you're going to have to hire a private engineer to design that if you haven't yet already start the design process utilities retaining walls grading and all that good stuff that's a public Improvement project usually public Improvement projects don't come in front of our Planning Commission we re review private development applications so so those are separated just by the nature of the process of getting things built we're here only to look at the private development uh aspect of what's going on and it very well could trigger roads schools Bridges who knows what not that it will but but that's those are public improvements that are tangental but not our business tonight thank you chair yeah t one question I was thinking about and we talked about this at a previous meeting and commissioner far I think you brought this up um in the winter time when we have so much snow is this does the city Jeremy does the city city provides snow plowing or is that going to be done by the Home Association um snow removal so Crestwood will be a public road so we will maintain M that including snow removal um all the other you know driveways um would be maintained by the Home Owners Association including snow removal and have we have you planned out where snow piling would take place uh within the community yes on our site plan we have a few snow storage areas and if there were excess we'd haul off site awesome okay thank you other comments or questions that people would like to explore now or I have one more regarding the airport um I am curious what is allowed and not allowed in the safety zone as mentioned by someone that um that comment was put in our my staff report because ultimately there will be a uh a requirement in the development grit that they sign a disclosure uh the property is located far enough away from the airport that's primarily affected by no way is not height or not uh not safety issue um so there'll be a notification in the development agreement that the first buyers will have to sign about a disclosure form for the airport noise but that's something that we review as part of all of our projects is where it is in relationship to the airport and is there any height limitations or use limitations um this far away we're not concerned with height issue because of the zoning District already limits it okay thanks a Jeremy question for you guys kind of brought up um if the gardens didn't work out in 5 years or something what process would they have to go through to if they wanted to come and try to add homes into that spot well they would have to re- um replat or subdivide that out lot a um and that would be the worst case scenario I would imagine I don't want to speak for the council but generally what we try to do is is as part of a a master development we want to anticipate the full buildout and what's happening 25 years from now and so I don't Envision that being a development option um but uh the point has been made pretty clearly of wanting more information of how that whole uh community garden space will work and function and look and so I would invite the applicant to make sure that that is addressed before it goes to council yeah again just to to talk about process here as random as some of these discussions seem amongst the Planning Commission this is exactly what the city council wants us to do because they tune into this and they understand get a better understanding of what the issues are so I I think this is actually a very healthy discussion and by the way just for my own personal opinion on this project I was pleasantly surprised to see the way that we were able that again the balance that came into this project the developers got to get a certain number of units to be able to pay for the development and and do that and make a little bit of money um Marshall or whoever owns this property I don't know if it's still a marshall family okay the Marshall family needs to get a fair value for their family this may very well be you know retirement money or you know something like that for for people in the family so they need to get a fair value we we can't just say well you can't do anything to that because they've invested a lifetime in this property and need to get a fair thing and then the city needs to get a a viable doable project and this one seemed to work out in my opinion I I was pleasantly surprised when I I did my homework on this project and saw that there were enough housing units to make it a viable project for everybody Marshalls obvious the Marshall family is obviously happy willing to sell it and and I think it it works out and for me I I was very very focused on making sure the Bluffs were protected and and that's happening here it's that's that's a community value for us so I I actually think it's with some of the tuning that we've talked about here can be a very a very positive addition to the city and isn't it like the biggest about the biggest infill piece we have left in Eden Prairie I think it might be I mean this this is a big deal and so it's it's really important to do it right for everybody are there comments Mr chair I'll take a crack um I uh just to really change gears um we haven't spoken really about the what I think is an exciting architectural opportunity here I think your Architects have done a fantastic job taking the three story multifam structure and uh veering away from a conventional three-story multifam structure um the first time I saw it um I I thought it was a two-story until someone five minutes into it told me that it was three levels and I had to go look for that third level of Windows up there um it it's a they did a great job of fooling the eye the Gable design adds a lot of character depth in and out it's it's a fantastic design design something new and different for our city it offers a d a different Market point and so I really appreciate the thought that went into it uh very much so um I I think I think it's going to be a very successful project I know those uh half a dozen or a dozen elevators May uh be a little expensive as will be the solar panels on the roof um but uh but I really like all those all those design touches and uh and when I looked at the site plan for the first time I thought the building was just a little bit too long and gangly but looking at it in 3D with all those renderings that you did it's broken up very well with the angles uh the the migration through the street as as the project unfolds as you drive down the street I think will be a very high quality design very high quality um I was I was very impressed at your separation of this development from the development to the north albe I understand neighbors concerns about some of the houses do get a little close in that north east corner um single family to single family um I'm sure the applicant can maybe throw an olive branch to those few owners where there maybe a an adjacency issue and talk fences or some spruce trees or something like that to iron out any any challenges that that may be there for for some of the residents but all in all to to do that separation with land and distance I think is is a a generous uh offer so so um I'm I'm excited about the site plan I'm excited about the Marshall family's Legacy to have a community garden um as a legacy to their their Gardens here um be offered up to the community I think you can make more out of that and and I've stressed that to you before and and maybe just challenge you with those those three things that we've already talked about is to um again work with those Neighbors on the backyards of 13 to 15 um uh come up with a more defined strategy on those Gardens and kind of what happens if this and what happens if that and um make sure that you have a position on the parking and we talked about maybe street parking maybe there's enough available parking across at the at the flats um what do you want maybe do a proof of parking plan if you need to just make sure that that position is fully articulated for Council um otherwise um I I think there's an abundance of covered parking which is good for this Market with all those covered parking stalls um the Del Road improvements that come along with this project has been long overdue I'm up on Del road on the North End so um I don't like making the the dangerous trip down the gravel uh but um it's h it'll be a good Improvement for our city in general to disperse trips um uh generally speaking I think it has low traffic counts All Things Considered about the number of Acres that we're putting in and the road systems that are in place uh again public Public Safety is number one but I know that our city does a great job of making sure the public safety uh will be available to all the residents including the children so I'm very much in support of this project and looking forward to it take a thank you commissioner fart other comments I would just Echo as a lot of things commission far said I really like the character and the open space is exciting I would just say um I saw the early iteration and um I really like the philosophy around the open space I think it's great when I saw this I feel like 12 13 14 15 kind of became a little more about urban sprawl but I understand you have to fit it in as best as you can um I'm not a big fan of the through extending that road that's part of why I didn't like the I voted against the Kinsley project but if city council considers maybe not putting a road through I I would just support that but otherwise I think it's a it is a pretty major project and I think they've done a nice job overall so any other comments or someone want to make a motion or Mr chairman commissioner Kirk move to approve cont comprehensive plan Amendment from low density residential to medium density residential IAL on 8.69 Acres from low density residential to parks and open space on 12.95 Acres plan unit development concept plan review on 32.11 Acres planned unit development District review with waivers on 7.21 Acres zoning change from rural to R 1.95 on 7.21 Acres rural to rm- 2.5 on 8.69 acres and Rural to parks and open space on 13.95 Acres pre preliminary plat of 32.1 acres into 16 Lots four out lots and the right of way and site plan review on 32.11 Acres as represented in the November 18th 202 24 staff report subject to the conditions listed in the staff report that's fun isn't it that's that's the worst in 15 years motion for commissioner Kirk do I have a second I'm G to second that motion Mr chair second from commissioner far all those in favor say I I opposed opposed and do we have anyone who' like to abstain okay we didn't have any discuss all right thank you nice job recommending approval of City Council moving on this evening planner's report Jeremy anything not tonight okay do we have any members reports Mr chair yes commissioner par if if you don't mind just for a moment um it was within this last week that uh I subscribe like many of you may do to the Eden prie local news that blog that came out to replace our Eden Prairie newspaper that died a few years ago you know anyway um I suggest everybody read it and recommend that everybody else in the city reads it uh Mark Weber uh wrote a uh a very indepth historical article about how Eden Prairie accumulated all of our fine open space over the decades starting in the 1960s uh it was educational uh inspirational and a wonderful resource article for not only us as a commission but I think everybody at large should have been pointed towards that article as well encourage you to find it read it and enjoy it great idea thank you commissioner idea all right any other members reports entertaining motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second second all those favor say I thanks everyone