[0:21] meeting okay folks we're going to get the meeting started well good morning everybody it [0:28] is Thursday November 14 2024 oh half the month of November already gone uh this [0:34] is the meeting of the Housing and Redevelopment Authority for the city of viina uh and uh as I mentioned it is [0:41] November 14th and it is 7:33 uh a.m. uh I think director benat uh [0:49] indicated that we have Community comment this morning for public participation there are no public hearings this [0:54] morning so if you want to call in on uh and address the H in a matter of concern to you that's not otherwise on the [1:01] agenda or scheduled for a future public hearing feel free to call in here's your contact information on the on the screen [1:08] and that will come up fairly fast after the uh meeting agenda is approved and so [1:13] let's call the meeting to order and I'll ask AR lens are acting executive director to call the role commissioner [1:19] Jackson here commissioner agnu here chair huffin here uh next is the Pledge [1:25] of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag [1:30] of the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands one nation [1:37] God indivisible with liy and justice for [1:45] all uh next we have a form of meeting agenda that's been published uh for purposes of this particular meeting to [1:51] the members of the HRA the Commissioners and the public is there anyone on staff or uh H commissioner that wishes to [1:59] amend the meeting agenda in any former fashion all right hearing nothing is there a mo motion to approve the meeting [2:04] agenda is published so moved second Mr Jackson moves commissioner AG second the approval of the meeting agenda is [2:10] published any further discussion all those in favor of approving the meeting agenda is published say I I I opposed [2:16] carried meeting agenda is approved uh now we are at Community comment if there [2:22] is anyone in the audience or in the virtual world uh stand by we're going to [2:28] uh ask residents of our community if got something they want to address with us that's not on the agenda today or [2:33] scheduled for a future public hearing if they want to address the HRA on any matter of concern to them um so let's go [2:40] to uh the chambers here first anybody in the audience who wishes to address the H on a matter of concern to them that's [2:46] not on the agenda or scheduled for a future public hearing all right do we have anybody [2:52] online we do not sir but because there is a slight delay in the broadcast I would recommend we wait one minute [2:58] before moving on giving people a chance to dial in if they want my clock shows that it's 7:36 so I will come back to [3:05] you when I have a caller or 7:37 whichever is first very [3:28] good e [4:00] it is now 7:37 and I still don't have a caller so I think it's safe for you to move forward with the agenda thank you [4:05] our usual practices following Community comment we have the acting executive director or executive director respond [4:12] to the community comments that were made at the prior meeting um acting executive executive director lens anything to [4:18] report on nope we've got nothing all right very good uh we've got a consent agenda with a couple of items on it uh [4:25] is there anyone on the uh H that wishes to remove an item from the consent agenda hearing nothing is there a motion [4:32] to adopt the items on the consent agenda and a single motion so moved a second member Jackson or commissioner Jackson [4:38] moves commissioner agu seconds the adoption of the items on the consent agenda in a single motion uh any further [4:44] discussion all those in favor of adopting the items on the consent agenda a single motion say I I I opposed [4:49] carried the items on the consent agenda are adopted uh we have uh next sequentially [4:55] on the agenda would be public hearings we don't have any public hearings as we indicated earlier today we have uh quite [5:02] a significant amount of work to do in the reports and recommendations portion of the agenda and the first matter uh in [5:08] front of us this morning is the potential approval of uh Tiff Redevelopment agreements with uh Enclave [5:15] companies DBA Enclave Dina and Bill nindorf our executive uh develop our [5:21] economic development manager will make that presentation and we have folks here [5:26] uh that can help assist us including our public Finance team and attorneys uh [5:31] Nick anhut from illers and Jay lingren from dorsy are both with us this morning that helped with the crafting I think of [5:38] these three uh these three proposed uh agreements uh relating to The Enclave [5:44] project so I'm going to turn now to our economic development manager Bill neindorf Mr new andorf welcome yes good [5:49] morning thank you happy to be here this morning uh so today is the culmination of of uh many months in fact I'm going [5:56] on two years of work um so a lot of the information that I'll present this morning you'll see be you've seen before [6:02] uh there's not a lot that's new but um this morning we have the the final uh uh [6:08] Redevelopment agreements for this Redevelopment at the 7 7235 France Avenue site currently occupied by the [6:15] Macy's Furniture Store um so in your packet um you'll find as promised uh [6:20] three legal contracts about 300 Pages a piece um there's been a lot of work uh involved to get to get to this point um [6:27] we're not going to go through it in fine detail um but just rest assured we have the full team here this morning if you [6:33] have any questions uh uh helping to to prepare this has been Jay Jay lingren [6:38] and will Elliot from dorsy and Whitney uh Nick anhut from ERS Associates are the the core to to uh look out for the [6:46] HRA in the city's interest and then of course the developers Ben L Ben Ben [6:51] landhauser from lifestyle communities Patrick Brahma from from Enclave uh are [6:56] here this morning as well along with their attorneys who helped craft these documents there's two agenda items this [7:03] morning that that pertain to the same project the first is the Redevelopment agreement that's what I'll focus on [7:09] first and then the second is the creation of the Tiff District um the two items go hand inand um what I'd [7:16] recommend with your uh with your consent Mr chair is to go through both of the [7:22] proposals um first answer any questions and then uh after we have the questions [7:28] answered then take action on both agreements on both the um contracts with [7:33] the developers as well as the creation of the Tiff District yeah thank you yeah please [7:39] proceed in that fashion so with that in mind the the the reason that we're here this morning is really to focus on the [7:45] red on the proposed Redevelopment of the site um the developers are poised to [7:51] invest over $300 million into that property to completely TR transform it [7:56] from the late 70s single use commercial building which has been a great part of our community for 40 plus years we're [8:03] excited to have Macy's continue on in a Dina just in a different location um and [8:09] they're poised to see that redeveloped into a vibrant mixed use destination um as as you're aware as the city council [8:15] you've approved PUD number 25 and all the site plan approvals for this project so those got wrapped up in September and [8:22] October but also as we've been discussing for for several months now um [8:27] uh there is a financial gap that hinders this project from moving forward so for the last several months um as this [8:34] project built up steam working through the Planning Commission working through the city council on preliminary [8:40] approvals we started engaging more in the conversation about uh what that Gap is why it exists can we can we shrink it [8:48] can we make it smaller uh and then finally how could the city help as a partner to bridge that Gap to actually [8:54] see this Vision uh become a reality our recommendation this morning morning is is consistent with what we [9:01] had in the term sheet that we shared with you back in July and August and that is to use a combination of tax [9:06] increment financing uh the traditional pay youo Tiff notes um as well as a [9:11] small portion of spark uh that spark program in Adina um has a few million [9:17] dollars in it um those are tax dollars that have already been collected um in [9:22] 2021 the city of Adina and every city in the state received a special uh uh [9:28] authorization to to invest those dollars um but that special authorization ends [9:33] next year and so um our recommendation is to tap into some of those spark funds [9:39] to reduce our Reliance on tax increment financing so we'll go through that in a little bit more [9:45] detail as as you pondered uh how to move forward this morning um I repeated some [9:51] of the questions that we've that we've discussed uh earlier in the year um and that's really regarding whether or not [9:57] tax increment financing is a appropriate for this project uh this project has as [10:02] you're aware has evolved um from March of 2023 uh is when the developer first [10:09] first approached the city with some Concepts um those Concepts changed and evolved over time um but [10:15] fundamentally um uh as the HRA sits this morning you're not look you're not here [10:21] as a regulator you're here as a financial partner to actually see this Vision take place so so some of the [10:27] questions that you might want to consider are whether or not this project delivers a suitable degree of public [10:33] benefit um is the use of Tiff pgo notes warranted to allow these benefits to be [10:39] achieved um we've also talked about uh other options in the past for example uh [10:45] uh it is theoretically possible to not use Tiff if we were to relax and wave a [10:51] lot of the other City standards affordable housing sustainability Park fees Etc um uh but as we've been moving [11:00] forward to craft these documents it's our recommendation that we stick with all this all the standard City policies [11:06] and use uh Tiff and Spark to bridge these gaps and see this project happen so there's been a lot of process [11:13] to date on this site um term sheets public hearings Etc uh this morning uh [11:20] we're here to consider the Redevelopment agreements uh three separate agreements uh and also to approve the Tiff plan [11:27] today we meet as the HRA so any action any approvals here this morning are conditioned upon final approval next [11:34] week at the city council so next week uh in the evening on the 19th we'll present the same [11:40] information uh in that Forum presuming the project moves forward with the approvals they still have to finance it [11:47] they still have to build it um and then they still have to get their all the inspections and whatnot so they're still [11:52] quite quite a road ahead uh for the developer but it all is it all is [11:58] dependent upon the project getting financed and after months of reviewing the materials reviewing the financials [12:04] meeting with the developers hearing from some of their investors and lenders um staff is convinced that uh there is a [12:11] financial gap without the use of City involvement through Tiff and Spark we [12:17] don't believe the project will move forward um so I've got renderings of the [12:23] project I'm not going to go through those in a dino when you say don't move forward you mean don't move forward in [12:28] that form would not move forward in this form correct the site the site plan that's been approved would not would not [12:34] be realized so in a um in addition to the state requirements we also add another [12:41] layer of refinement to ensure that anytime we the city gets involved with Public Finance that there's uh defined [12:47] public benefits that are delivered that's not a mandate by state law but it follows our practice in AA and our [12:54] policies in a Dina so in the report as as we've discussed in the past there's a [12:59] lot of public benefits in this project um first and foremost is just the economic benefit that's something we [13:06] tend to gloss over um because a lot of people get excited about what we're actually going to build but the main [13:12] reason that we're doing this is to grow the tax base and strengthen our community so a project of this scale and [13:19] c and caliber would increase the annual tax creation by a factor of 10 uh it [13:25] would increase the market value by nearly a factor of 20 um so truly a transformational [13:32] change additionally a project of this scale creates a lot of upfront funding for the city that would not otherwise be [13:39] realized for example um park mainten or Park dedication fees $2.8 million of of [13:47] fees that will be directed to the parks department to be used in any park within the city of Adina about $1.9 million in [13:55] sewer fees um not the most glamorous fee Ure utilities aren't aren't always exciting but $1.9 million to help the [14:04] sewer system that serves all of AD Dina and $1.6 million to help the water system that serves our whole [14:11] Community through this deal we've also negotiated a park maintenance agreement uh uh I think I mentioned before that [14:18] was a sticky point with with the developer they're not they weren't very happy about that but we find since there [14:23] since there'll be more people taking advantage of the park um we like that we like the vibrancy but the developer has [14:31] agreed to uh to fund about $80,000 a year in park maintenance fees that would [14:37] be directed to the Centennial Lakes Park to defay some of the operational costs of that [14:43] facility and and that's nothing new to a we've been doing that since the '90s when we built Centennial Lakes [14:50] originally um but this is the first project along the park that we've used Tiff in for decades so we wanted to [14:56] continue that tradition and make sure that there's a strong funding stream for that Park the other key benefits are the the [15:04] layout of the site creation of New Roads sidewalks bike trails um so these are [15:10] the site plans that we that we pulled from the approved project back in September um about 45% of the property [15:17] is outdoor space and that will all be covered by a public easement which means that in perpetuity the public can use [15:24] that space um while the developer is responsible for keeping keeping good repair good condition um the blue spots [15:32] here show the public art sculptures and murals that were included in the site plan through the Tiff agreement we can [15:38] lock lock the developer in to make sure that there's always uh the public art on the property in good [15:45] condition and then one of the most unique things about this project is securing easement rights for the uh [15:52] future creation of a pedestrian Crossing that would either go under or over France Avenue to connect these two sites [15:59] across the street um uh which it's not just about the sites it's about those [16:05] neighborhoods it's connecting the cornelian neighborhood on the west to the um centeno Lakes neighborhood on the [16:10] East and vice versa so uh no final decisions yet on whether or not uh we'll actually build that project but through [16:17] this Tiff agreement we have secured rights as well as funding uh should we choose to build [16:24] that affordable housing has also been a key benefit in this project this is the [16:29] first one um I think in a long time that we've done a combination of rental and ownership units um so we'll have uh [16:37] rentals in three of the buildings and ownership condos in one of them and then indoor public parking the [16:43] developer has agreed to uh issue public easement so that the general public can [16:49] park in the in the buildings to either patronize the build the businesses onsite or to go to the park or to go to [16:55] the shop next door or across the street um [17:00] and then one of the last public benefits is the sustainable buildings policy um when Tiff is used that policy kicks in [17:08] um so there'll be rooftop solar there'll be um on-site storm water one of the buildings will be lead certified three [17:14] of the buildings will be um National Green Building um [17:20] certified and then uh also public benefits pursuing equity and inclusion [17:25] we've defined measurable goals for the contractors to make sure that people and businesses that are underrepresented in [17:32] the in the construction trades have a fair shot of getting a job on this project that extends to both the workers [17:39] on the site as well as the subcontractors that would have a piece of the overall [17:45] project in the past we've also you've asked us to model other Alternatives what if we approve something else what [17:51] if nothing happened um uh I'm not going to go through that again unless there's questions but um when we actually I let [18:00] me back up um we talked about that in in uh in October with you um we had some [18:06] early estimates that that I prepared and we had ERS refine those estimates so the [18:11] outcome is the same um uh but we've got a little bit more um comparison here and [18:19] and this is one slide that I think is important to realize or to take a look at so this is the life of the Tiff [18:25] District the 25e district um the B the Red Bar on the bottom shows that if [18:34] nothing were to happen that's just the slight inflationary increase of the value of the [18:39] property if everything were to happen if the project gets built but without Tiff [18:45] if we wave all of our policies wave the fees and actually build it without Tiff [18:50] that's the orange bar at the top if we build it with Tiff that's the blue bar in the middle so certainly if we would [18:57] be willing to relax our our policies and standards in Adina it might theoretically be possible to build this [19:05] um in October the developer showed you a sketch of what that might look like um but in the in the 25-year term of the [19:13] district they definitely is a differential we we want to acknowledge that we also want to acknowledge that [19:20] the city is going to be here for longer than 25 years when we build these projects we're looking at the long-term [19:26] impact of the community and that's what this graph shows so the left the left [19:31] portion of of this graph is what I just showed you um the differential though is [19:37] look in the years after the Tiff District expires that's when the project [19:42] with the affordable housing and all the public benefits When that's delivered even with Tiff just a few short years [19:49] after that Tiff District expires the value of that project continues to grow and escalate and surpass a similar [19:57] project that was built without Tiff um so we find both in the sh in the short [20:03] term and the long term we're able to recognize not just the public benefits of the housing and the parking and all [20:09] the public space but also a long-term fiscal benefit to support the [20:16] community we've evaluated uh as I mentioned all the developers financials we've looked at that tax-based growth [20:23] we've looked at the impact of the school district and the county and the state [20:30] um uh we were also asked to look at the park maintenance fees and what would what would happen if we built the [20:37] project with Park maintenance fees or without it's a very simple graph to chart um without the use of Tiff without [20:44] the The Leverage to to encourage and ask the developer to do this that's the blue bar on the bottom we'd continue to get [20:50] nothing uh when we used Tiff and we're able to to to uh pursue this goal we're [20:56] able to get those Park fees uh um so they stabilize at about $80,000 a year [21:02] and then escalate at about 2 and a qu% interest um they do they're not permanent though they do expire after 30 [21:10] years working with others we've reviewed their their funding we've reviewed the [21:16] scale of the project um as you might expect for something of this caliber as they've repriced it um the price has [21:23] increased in the last couple months by almost $10 million so they're currently up to about three 309 million and change [21:31] to build this the Tiff amount is the same though that that's that's how we [21:36] use Tiff in a d just because their project cost goes up we don't automatically escalate the Tiff so we're [21:42] still look still recommending a tiff contribution about $22.87 million to [21:48] finance the project Rie we reviewed how the how they'll spend the money where those cost [21:54] drivers are and we've we've refined the analysis [22:00] to confirm that there still is a gap so we have a slide like this for each of the pro each of the of of the buildings [22:06] I'll just focus on one of them very briefly when you look at the cost to build the project when you look when you [22:12] look at the income that's realized compared to The Debt Service that they have to pay to to uh pay off the [22:20] project without the use of Tiff they would have a return of about 5.6% no investor is going to invest in a [22:28] project if that's their return for this level of risk um with Tiff we can reach [22:34] a market return um we're always sensitive to that market return we want to use Tiff just enough to get it [22:40] financed without over subsidizing the developer or the investors of the banks [22:45] so we've capped our return at 7.1% um this is for the Northwest [22:52] building uh and we find that with the use of tiff with the project being completed we'll have enough Tiff [22:58] generation to make those numbers work the Tiff note is is the same um [23:06] it's shown here if in aggregate uh 22.87% [23:28] the term sheet uh the the risk and responsibility rests with the de with [23:33] the developer they have to acquire the site secure debt secure investors go out [23:38] for bid get the contractors manage the project um that all rests with the [23:44] developer we've also continued to urge the developer to pursue grants from deed [23:49] met Council and hanpin County um we expect to do that in the spring in the next Grant cycle so hopefully if we're [23:56] successful in that we'll be able to reduce the amount amount of City contribution by getting support from [24:01] some of these other [24:07] agencies um I want to take just a minute to talk about spark I I gave a quick [24:13] introduction but we' had we didn't talk about this a lot during the term sheet I just want to make sure that we're um [24:19] that I talk through it thoroughly so I mentioned earlier those spark funds are in a position where it's a use it or [24:26] lose it situation those are tax doll originally collected um primarily from [24:31] the Southdale 2 District um uh they are they're in an account and we as a city [24:37] we have until late 2025 to spend or invest those dollars um uh if we choose not to not to [24:46] spend those we return them to the county we staff would far recommend that we [24:53] keep those tax dollars here in the city of Adina rather than sending them to the county and and the state um so at this [25:01] point we have just slightly over $5 million in our spark fund we funded [25:06] three or four projects um they tended to be smaller the biggest one is the finch we put about $2 million towards the [25:13] finch to build a new road to get to the park and and the the back of the properties um but even after those [25:19] Investments we still have about 5 million left so we want to make sure that we put that towards good projects [25:25] that we feel have a real strong shot of getting built in the you know before that deadline so in this contract we've [25:32] crafted it so that the Le The Leverage and the choice rests with the city not [25:38] with the developer so at this point we estimate there'll be $1.5 million [25:43] minimum available to support this project Our intention is to use spark [25:49] once the developer gets their Bank financing and we know what's going forward our dollars would serve as as [25:56] equity and they would go into the project during the construction phase they'd be secured by a forgivable loan [26:02] agreement um dorsy and Whitney prepared that document just to make sure in case anything goes wrong those funds are [26:09] repayable to us to the city um we also gave the city flexibility that in case [26:15] there's more monies available we have until Midsummer next year to alert the [26:20] developer that we'd like to use more spark um and then they can adjust their Equity Investments as well the the key [26:28] driver there is for every dollar of spark that we use it's one less dollar of Tiff and so that's what we're trying [26:34] to do here is maximize the resources we have rather than run a risk of turning those dollars back over to the county [26:41] once they go to the county there's no Assurance they'll be returned to a Dina right they could be invested anywhere [26:47] commissioner Jackson has a question for you and I do as well on this slide yes thank you Mr chair so there's a lot on this slide um [26:56] if you say that we are put putting money in as Equity partners and it's [27:01] structured so that if it's sold it's a forgivable loan tell me a little bit [27:06] about the equity interest that the city will be getting um yeah and that's not how it not how it works okay yeah yeah [27:14] I'm really foggy on what this is so the um if we use if we use [27:20] spark Well normally A din used as a tiff note and that note is issued after the [27:26] project is finished and we can point to the shiny project and it's there and it's we know where the money is going in [27:31] this instant we don't have that we don't have that amount of time to use spark [27:37] the the right to use spark expires in in about a year and so we need to put those [27:43] dollars in earlier so once it's under construction I don't have a finished [27:48] project but I have a started project and so at that point we feel confident that the project will move forward um but [27:55] rather than just giving them the money as a pure Grant um hypothetically if we did a grant if [28:02] the project were to fail and not get finished our money would be gone so instead we want to secure it as a [28:08] forgivable loan which which the loan would be forgiven the minute they finish [28:13] the building because our goal isn't necessarily to maximize the return we're [28:19] not an investment bank that's not how these dollars are set up but it's to but it's to get good projects built in the [28:25] community so um essentially we would provide the funding to the project [28:32] there's no return there's no interest rate um unless they fail then there theoretically would be okay so that's [28:39] not answering my question um so this is complicated [28:45] so couple of things first of all do we have will we have an equity interest in this project going forward not as an [28:52] equity investor no so it it will operate like a grant even though it's not [28:57] technically not a grant correct correct okay so then um in the spark agreement or policy [29:05] that we set up I was under the impression that we wanted to actually use these larger amounts as loans so [29:13] that those funds would recycle into future projects so tell me how this is [29:19] not a and it's not structured as a loan but but how did we make that jump from a preferring loans to uh I'm going to call [29:27] it a quas Grant sure sure and I might uh ask Nick an Hut to get into some of the [29:33] details but that was our you're correct that was our goal in 2021 when the program was established uh Our Hope was [29:40] to be able to to to create a revolving Loan Fund um we've learned over time that the way [29:48] the state law is written and the way that it's structured that's not possible and so um it would have been great if it [29:56] would have worked out that way but um maybe maybe Mr anot can provide a little bit more detail on that um but we just [30:02] found it what we had hoped would work in that fashion won't work out thank you uh Nick and Associates and [30:10] um yes we've combed over the statute and we understand it it it is derived from [30:15] Tiff dollars from Southdale 2 so it is still treated as tax increment dollars [30:21] and the state auditor has provided opinions about how they need to be uh restricted in their use and so when you [30:28] use these dollars for a project if you use it as a loan which is authorized the dollars that come back [30:35] need to still be returned and treated as if they were tax increment dollars and so they would be restricted in their use [30:41] and how you could apply them to other projects you would also need to report on those activities annually which also [30:49] incurs some administrative burden and cost over time so if it were structured as a [30:54] loan there would be a requirement that you continue to report on them and then you would only be able to use them for [31:02] specific activity related to the original Tiff District which was a Economic Development District in [31:08] Southdale to and there would be a very limited type of project that you could potentially use those dollars to assist [31:16] the second point that I will add as well is that when you are lending money that needs to be repaid to the project you're [31:22] actually you're providing a benefit to the the development but you're widening [31:28] the Gap slightly because now they need to actually repay those funds so we [31:33] would not necessarily be able to stick to that original Gap amount if you did structure this as a loan we'd have to [31:39] think about maybe expanding it a little bit so instead of 22 it might be 23 million or 24 million to kind of offset [31:47] that future repayment liability um so kind of those two reasons together [31:55] led us to a conclusion that we should try to strive to potentially use this resource which we don't have to but [32:02] would potentially provide some benefit to the project would limit the H's Tiff liability into the future um but [32:10] maximize uh how much the spark dollars could actually offset the gap for this project and what we would actually [32:16] anticipate you'd be able to use those funds for in the future thank you Mr rner thank you I want to build on that a [32:24] little bit more so if it were payable or we asked for it to be [32:30] repaid and it still had those constraints on it that you mentioned of needing to be applied within like the [32:36] similar TI District area and we weren't able to do that what would happen to [32:42] that money would it have to just sit there or does it get kind of re collected in the the way that it's [32:49] outlined here on the screen so the the normally under a tiff District when [32:57] you have funds that are left over there you potentially have the authority to continue to use them for the original [33:03] purpose that they were applied um you need to maintain them within the funds [33:08] you need to segregate them and uh report on their activities um there is [33:14] increasing legislative pressure to return those dollars at that point in time but the way the statute is written [33:22] right now you're actually able to hold on to them as long as you continue to report and be transparent about how [33:27] they're being used used you can still hold on to them in the hope that you would have a qualified use in the future [33:34] um but you do again need to continue to report on those activities and it's it's actually a fairly lengthy and and [33:41] stringent reporting requirement um so I hope that answered the question it did [33:47] thank you um I have another broader question about spark uh and I do see kind of the [33:54] flexibility here in the 1.5 to the 5 million and I know what will be talking about spark later on as well are there [34:01] any other projects in the pipeline that you've had conversations about that [34:06] might be able to use these funds and if so do we still have that flexibility to [34:12] invest into smaller projects between now and then and then determine how much to invest into these [34:19] larger projects we we do have the flexibility so at at this point there's no large [34:26] project that we're aware of where we could invest the spark money instead um [34:32] we still have the reason we we gave a range of dollar amount um a few months [34:37] ago you authorized a small business uh for forgivable Loan Fund a small [34:42] business grant fund actually um I still hope to get another two or three of those done in [34:48] 2025 um so i' I've withheld some of the monies in hopes that I can find a few of those other businesses um I continue to [34:56] to promote that project and continue to reach out um the ability to use these [35:01] monies is pretty limited so I've only found um one so far uh but we'll keep looking uh and I I think by the end of [35:09] the year we can probably find a few other ones to support uh in that small business program but at this point we [35:15] don't see any other big project that would be um a better use of the larger [35:21] amount thank you I the one I'm remembering is the O crpe and I I love [35:26] that type of work investing in of smaller businesses revitalizing some of these areas um so would love to leave [35:32] that option open as long as we can and appreciate you continuing to Garner our interest into that um so thank [35:41] you so on your second bullet point under number one here it says forgiven after [35:47] each lot completed we know you've got some uh range of flexibility that you're requesting under bullet point number one [35:54] but under bullet point number two when you say forgiven after each lock lot completed do you mean that there's a [36:00] portion of it forgiven after each lot is completed do you have it subdivided or does each lot have to be fully completed [36:06] and all three have to be completed before there's a forgiveness yeah good [36:12] question so um the way that we've written the language um there's a [36:17] separate Redevelopment agreement for each of the parcels the Northwest mixed use the Southwest condo mixed use and [36:24] the East um we're not sure which one is going to go first and so we included the [36:30] spark option in each of those contracts um so if theoretically if the East [36:37] buildings are built first we'd probably direct the spark funds to that project [36:42] so once those are for are finished we would forgive it um in case one of the [36:47] other ones goes first we'd probably direct the funds to that one instead and when that one's uh forg when that one's [36:53] completed we'd forgive it um right now um the folks that enclave and the folks [36:58] at lifestyle communities are are working their tales off trying to get multiple [37:04] sites in progress at the same time so it might be possible that we do half to one [37:10] site and half to the other there are so many options we're not at this point in time I can't tell you which one's going to go first um but they would not have [37:17] to complete everything to see those funds forgiv it's really on a lot by lot [37:23] basis okay and Mr lingren you're satisfied that the language of the the agreements cover that uh so that you [37:31] have and staff has that flexibility uh Mr chair Commissioners again jayen with dorsy and Whitney yes I [37:38] am and the other thing is we always have to keep in mind it's been mentioned but there is a December 31 [37:45] 2025 fully expenditure of those costs so that's why I think it's important to [37:50] figure out which one goes first and make sure we fully utilize the spark and [37:55] those three sets of documents I think cover it [38:01] well Mr anut could you come back up because there was a question that came to my mind after uh my fellow Commissioners has [38:08] asked you a couple of questions so if if there are if you used the an actual loan [38:14] repayment mechanism and the loans were repaid [38:20] before December 31 2025 uh and because spark requires that [38:28] those monies be fully expended or be returned to the county at the end of [38:33] 2025 my sense was that you were saying that there was a there was a way to sort [38:38] of pull those if you would and and reallocate them to other projects Beyond [38:44] December 31 2025 if it was a pure loan as opposed to a forgivable [38:50] grant that is is that a was that a correct interpretation or not Mr chair if you uh established a loan it didn't [38:56] it would not have to be repaid before that time the the statutory requirement is that we actually use those dollars to [39:03] expend them on a project so if we offered it as structured it as a loan [39:08] we'd need the developer to be able to show that they've actually been able to take those proceeds and use them for [39:16] development activity on the site whichever site goes first um they'd have [39:22] to do that by December of 25 could have a loan [39:28] outstanding and repayable over time after that point but any of the dollars that come back in repayment in that loan [39:36] are still considered tax increment dollars that need to be returned to the original Tiff District so we'd have to [39:44] segregate and set up a fund that doesn't need to exist at this point in time anymore um and keep it open in until [39:52] those funds are fully repaid we'd have to report on that liability take those [39:57] in and then those dollars that come back can only be used for qualified costs of [40:02] the Southdale 2 Tiff District as it was originally uh intended and that's a very [40:08] limited narrow view of type of project that we would potentially use this so this was a temporary allowance given by [40:15] the legislature because of the pandemic and the lingering effect of of all the [40:22] uh impacts of the financial markets afterward there was a lull or an inability to finance development [40:29] projects and so the legislature gave cities across the state this authority to leverage existing Tiff dollars you [40:36] know in a way that they otherwise would not be able to do so that's what we're trying to take advantage of but we need [40:42] to understand that if we set it up as a loan the dollars that come back are not going to be able to be used that way [40:48] anymore they're going to have to be um as originally intended prior to the [40:54] legislation restricted to Southdale 2 and it's it's activities all right so as as a and this may take us full circle [41:00] again but as the as the three of you this what I would call really First Rate [41:07] Public Finance advisory team economic development director and incidentally I thought this work was just superb [41:12] presentations of agreements as I went through all the materials I thought really this was really Superior work [41:20] that was done on behalf of the city of Viana so you must have thought about all of these things as you were deciding [41:25] that there should be a forgivable loan as opposed to the the straight loan with [41:31] a possibility having some of the M come back into a tiff District after December 31 [41:36] 2025 how did you come to that conclusion I guess is that what we would all want to know because that'll help us [41:43] understand better what to do sure um a couple reasons and it's really they're [41:49] they're all pragmatic quite honestly um so it certainly was compelling to consider becoming an equity investor [41:56] into the this project um uh We've not done that before and we [42:02] don't know another community that has so we' be charting brand new water um and [42:08] we needed to get this project done by the end of the year so they can meet their closing deadline so we weren't [42:14] confident that we'd be able to to figure all that out in the window that we had [42:19] um the other time constraint is really that 2025 deadline when we first started [42:25] the program we thought we could pledge the dollars by 2025 and then maybe they're they're [42:31] spent in 26 or 27 and in the last couple years the state auditor's office has [42:36] made it very clear no the dollars are spent if they're not spent out the door in someone else's in some contractor's [42:44] pocket paying their employees and their and their suppliers you can't use the money so we wanted to be sure that we [42:50] don't run the risk of losing the dollars um uh 20 December 2025 is 13 months away [42:58] and all these projects take time so we felt that the best use of these dollars was to to ensure that they get invested [43:05] here in ad um since we have also been talking about these public improvements The Pedestrian [43:11] Crossing and things like that the the other thinking was if we can rely rely [43:17] more on spark and less on Tiff that creates more Tiff options for the [43:22] community in the future uh so it's just those pragmatic reasonings it would have been fantastic to be to do an equity [43:29] deal I we didn't want to risk it at this point I see you yeah you kind of leaning [43:37] into the microphone there maybe you had a supplementary comment uh I just would also comment that I think it provides a [43:42] little bit more bang for the buck than we we otherwise would have been able to get out of those dollars so as I [43:48] mentioned a repayable loan we would actually think that we need to maybe offer a little bit more to get to the [43:54] same place y um I also think we want to be careful about thinking about Equity [43:59] investment in a project when you're an equity investor you're also exposed to the downside of the project whereas right [44:05] now we are not right it's all incumbent on the developer and the owner of that [44:11] property to maintain it and operated as a successful property um an equity [44:17] investor would be part of that responsibility and have to maintain and [44:22] maybe be exposed to years when it's not paying for itself in the future and so [44:28] thinking about those types of things it seemed like a much more um consistent role for the city to offer this as a as [44:36] a forgivable loan it's somewhat akin to what we did with the [44:41] theater you we loaned the money to build out the the rebuild the Adina theater [44:48] and then if they stayed in operation a certain number of years portions of the loan were forgivable that's exactly [44:53] correct and and the key thing there is the community love that historic sign but we didn't want to get involved and [45:00] get into the headache of fixing it and repairing it but the owner was willing to take that uh that responsibility Mr [45:07] Jackson's got some follow on here I think I've got some unrelated questions um so I don't want to um interrupt the [45:14] conversation about the this portion of it okay but related to the presentation [45:20] oh yeah yeah absolutely yeah I think that's fine I think we're probably done with this particular subset so um I just [45:26] want to make sure um talking about the underpass if we decide on the underpass [45:33] and we want to pay for it with Tiff dollars will we need a new Tiff District a new Tiff agreement um tell me a little [45:39] bit about the process for getting to that to pay for that underpass if if we [45:44] decide on it sure sure so uh if we do decide to move to move forward with that underpass or any similar kind of [45:51] improvement in that area we by the end of next week we will have cre two Tiff [45:57] districts one on the west side of the street one on the east side of the street those Tiff districts uh that's [46:04] enough at that at that point so there's no need to create a new one and the decision about building the underpass [46:10] completely rests with the city so regarding the design the specific [46:16] location the cost all the details it's a city city choice not a developer Choice [46:22] um and the timing to build it is also with the city you know if we we build it sooner it's probably a little bit more [46:28] cost effective to build it sooner than later um but again that all rests with the city uh uh right now where we [46:38] presume that Tiff from the west side of the street and the east side of the street would be able to pay for most of [46:44] that project but we still want to go to look at Federal sources State sources because Improvement of this type um can [46:53] benefit so many different groups of people and so there's different funding programs out there uh if we have to rely [46:59] on Tiff you know that's a good back back stop but we hope to find other options [47:04] so just to be perfectly clear we won't be back in this position again creating a new Tiff District a new Tiff agreement [47:11] and so on so forth if we decide to do the underpass that the the existing documents should we approve them will be [47:18] sufficient correct okay great and then sort of you mentioned grants um we're [47:24] pursuing grants for this if if we approve it we'll continue to pursue grants for um for this [47:31] development are the documents drafted in such a way that that would reduce the Tiff amount yes okay yes yeah for any [47:38] any dollar Grant received the Tiff contribution would be reduced okay terrific thank [47:44] you Mr Jackson raised an important uh point I think for uh conversation for [47:50] the not only us but the public and that is with respect to the underpass so the way you've structured this potential uh [47:57] Tiff agreement is that uh on the increment that would be captured 25% of [48:03] it goes to the city and the the reason that goes to the city is because we haven't made a [48:08] decision on what to do with that underpass or or passageway whatever you want to call it under France [48:14] Avenue uh but we were going to be able to aggregate 25% of the increment to potentially do something like that if [48:22] the city were to determine Downstream that that wasn't what we wanted to do but we captured that 25% increment what [48:29] are the other things we can do with it sure uh there's a few other things we could do um uh any kind of public [48:36] infrastructure work in that immediate vicinity would be eligible so um uh [48:43] France Avenue is a county road so that gets to be kind of odd but if there's improvements necessary on France Avenue [48:50] in that immediate portion we could make those improvements if there's other utility improvements that we haven't [48:55] already thought about out in that immediate area we could fund those as well um bicycle improvements sidewalk [49:02] improvements utilities Street lighting all those kind of basic infrastructure things in that immediate vicinity we [49:09] could use with those dollars could be used for it uh We've also written in an option in the Tiff plan um that [49:16] affordable housing could be a legitimate use so if we decided not to move forward [49:21] with the underpass we could use that 25% to support funding of a different for an [49:26] affordable housing project somewhere else in the community um and then there's Al always a pooling provision [49:33] which allows um some of the Tiff dollars to be spent on infrastructure in other [49:39] areas um so there there is a financial cap on that we'd work with others to figure out what exactly is available um [49:46] but it's really affordable housing and public infrastructure so the option we wanted to give the council the greatest [49:53] flexibility to decide what's the best use of those down in the future when they're available [49:59] good uh this has caused commissioner egg to think of something she wanted to address as well and then I want to come back to one other topic so this is this [50:07] is more Broad and it goes back to some of the previous conversations we've been having about this project and some of [50:13] the public amenities and what I really like about this project as a whole is [50:19] not only the the general mixed use that we're seeing as a part of the the multiple sites but the vertical mixed [50:26] use that's a core component to this we'd had a couple of conversations with the [50:31] developer about some type of community [50:37] focused area within the Northwest building um multiple ideas were thrown [50:43] out we weren't committing anything we weren't locking anything in but now that I'm looking at article three [50:49] specifically within the the document here I'm wondering if there's a way we can add something in there as well to to [50:57] require in this component of a open kind of public Community draw location as [51:04] opposed to just something that would be for residents within that building is that something that's still possible at [51:10] this stage uh I might ask uh the developer [51:16] about that I'm not familiar with that previous ask and also Mr lingren um so [51:22] are you is this just a space is it an open space for recreation or is it like a is [51:29] it a place that would be a community room where you've got a lock on it and well see that's part of my question is [51:36] we we'd had a couple of conversations and it was kind of vague and I think it [51:42] was relevant in the sense that they weren't able to go in and get a contract signed with anyone until we were [51:47] progressing along with the project and my biggest concern is wanting to make sure there's some type of contractual [51:54] obligation that they do something that is more that Community draw um and not something that is purely for the [52:01] residents of this area I want it to to draw people in um and so I'm being vague [52:07] because I don't want to like contractually over commit to what this needs to be but I do know that we [52:14] weren't able to have a firm alignment when we were going through the the site plans on what this would be so maybe [52:21] come up and speak to me about where we're at right now and then I'll turn the question back to is there any way to contr contractually include this within [52:27] the document Mr Brahma thank you for coming up and identify yourself please for the record good morning chair [52:32] members of the H Patrick Brahma 1660 South Highway 100 St Louis Park I'm with [52:38] Enclave development team uh happy to respond to the question and yes there's been a dialogue and it we totally [52:45] haven't landed on something specific uh there's a few things that I can offer on that Northwest building as far as [52:51] interaction with the public uh enhancing um uh the public benefit uh within that [52:58] mixed use building so one thing that we did that doesn't directly answer your question but I just want to make it [53:03] known it was kind of in the vein of trying to head down the path of making that building more publicly accessible [53:09] and um inviting for the public first from a design perspective as the project morphed over the months so the last [53:15] several months we ended up actually expanding the public realm area in that and [53:21] physically you you everybody that's close to the project is aware that there's a east to west public Plaza that [53:27] runs through the center of the site where that Plaza touches that Northwest building originally there was no bump [53:34] into the building we ended up actually carving out an area for expanding the public Plaza kind of into that the [53:40] building footprint more so it's a it's a wider public Plaza in that area so there's there's greater public outdoor [53:46] area uh against that site that's one thing secondly we it's because we didn't [53:52] know exactly the size square footage or exact location um one thing that we are incorporating [53:58] in that Northwest building that's not a part of a contract is a is a conference [54:03] a large conference room or Center we don't know if that's one room two rooms if it's work from home units we don't [54:10] tot we haven't had programmed it yet but we're intending to have some sort of conference room that could be used by [54:17] our uh tenants like the office tenant maybe uses it for a conference that they [54:22] have maybe the residents of our building use it but also because it's a against the public Plaza the public could access [54:29] it and we could rent it to the public the public could use it as a public community room for their use as well and [54:34] so then it could be rented through our uh rental office which is on the same floor adjacent to that um uh as well as [54:42] far as taking it a step further and committing to like we were talking about theater or is there um other you know [54:48] like other event space is there we haven't we haven't programmed any that it's still all uh spec space that's [54:54] right now jll is marketing it we're working with Prospect tenants now uh no commitments at this point but those are [55:00] the things that we C we have done and and could commit to if you do want it part of the contract [55:07] now I don't know if that answers your question it sort of does and I think [55:13] that we continue to have this vagueness to it which I acknowledge with where we're at in the process I I do [55:19] understand that um but it's also why I want to have something written in there that is requiring [55:26] some type of use and I I feel bad CU I'm not being able to be like as prescriptive in what I want to see um [55:34] nor do I think that I should be um but specifically what I'm looking for is [55:40] something that will be open to the public and draw people to this site um [55:46] and that's where we had talked about you know whether it's a a comedy club or some type of theater or some type of [55:53] community Activity Center um I don't think that a conference room that can be [55:58] rented out meets that expectation and I don't think that purely extending the [56:03] outdoor space unless it were heav heavily programmed year round similar to [56:09] what we see at 50th in France I don't think that that meets my expectation either and so it's something a little [56:14] bit further down um but obviously I don't want to include specificity to the [56:20] point of it has to be a comedy club like that doesn't make sense um I want some freedom and mobility and and what this [56:26] actually gets programmed as but I want it to be something that draws people into this site and is open to the [56:38] public if I all right let's let's think about it this way uh what you're asking for today [56:46] is um approval of their Redevelopment agreements with Enclave conditioned on Final approval by [56:52] the city council so it strikes me that between now and the 19th of November when we're going to meet on [56:59] as a city council you could discuss this issue that's uh been raised by commissioner U to see if we could either [57:06] amend the contracts that potentially get approved today or agreements they're all [57:12] condition on city council approval anyway right uh to see if you can work something out and then we could address [57:17] it at the council level um commissioner Jackson has a thought too yeah just a a question of [57:24] information when uh 50th in France was redeveloped in that public space was that part of the funding agreement to [57:30] have programming there or how what was the mechanism for that uh for the for [57:37] the Nolan Mains project the commercial uses were chosen by the developer so we [57:42] knew they wanted at least two restaurants um so they ended up with two and a half restaurants basically um but [57:50] as far as specifying the type of business um it's tough to do that cuz [57:56] now you've really limited your pool um of possible tenants [58:01] um uh and for the programming the outdoor space that was that was written into the Nolan Mains if that was also [58:07] part of your question that my question is what was written into the agreement um uh when we did that Redevelopment [58:15] yeah so in the retail element there was no no requirement for the type of tenants okay um just any allowable [58:21] retail use per the zoning um and then for the public space we knew that the [58:27] public space would be programmed but we didn't specify the type of event or the day of the event or anything like that [58:32] we just wrote that it shall be allowed to be um used for events yeah I think [58:38] seeing that language would be really useful for us before this comes forward again so we can kind of say what we've [58:44] done before so um uh there's an easement or I'm sorry there's an exhibit I don't [58:50] remember which number but it's uh the public Plaza exhibit uh we swipe that from Nola Mains so it's part of the [58:56] agreement today but it only addresses those outdoor public spaces there's no mention of indoor [59:04] tenants okay so this agreement has the same um requirement that the Nolan Mains [59:11] agreement had very similar yeah okay great thank you Mr rahy you had a little side conversation with Mr [59:17] GLE um yeah thank you chair members of the H I just wanted to um that way we [59:24] have a productive conversation between now and the city council meeting next week just want to clarify a couple [59:29] points maybe we're already on the same page but uh that Northwest building the second floor includes office there's [59:36] office space there's I think it's 13,500 square feet of office space that were in the approved plans um that's been [59:44] marketed by jll we assume that office user would use that or would would be the prospect tenant uh jll is aware of [59:51] our desire to find a creative use that we've discussed as a potential use in the past so there they're trying to [59:56] Market to entertainment groups as well to see if they can get any interest um there's also uh 5,900 fet of first floor [1:00:05] retail commercial space again jll is marketing that perhaps there's a user that would take both floors maybe [1:00:10] there's a creative use maybe it's a club I we don't totally know what it may be the the likely use where the market [1:00:16] demand is is some sort of uh uh restaurant user on that first floor [1:00:21] fronting France um so just I just want to be transparent that's the that's the [1:00:26] currently what we're doing that's what's in the plans that's our anticipation it's part of our performa uh is having [1:00:32] those go out and get leased by the market uh again we've provided the direction and the preference from the city to look for those types of users [1:00:39] the other thing that's unique in the building is uh on the first floor we have a office and amenity area and then [1:00:45] we also and I I can't don't quote me here but I don't know if it's I don't know if it's 1,000 sare feet or 2,000 [1:00:51] square feet but there's a chunk of space that's it's kind of wedged in between our lobby amenity area and the [1:00:58] commercial area that space is to be determined at this point in time and that's where we envision the some sort [1:01:04] of conference room um that's up against the larger public Plaza area so um I [1:01:10] think there could be flexibility and the programming of that area and having some sort of conference room maybe that the [1:01:16] outdoor public area that's a that's you know obviously the programming isn't final determined at this point in time [1:01:22] um there might be some flexibility there as well but I wanted to get those pie pieces out there in case they aren't known and those would be the pieces that [1:01:29] I'd be thinking about working with staff on but um my only pause is that if we [1:01:35] the leasable space that's in those two areas that I mentioned the second floor and the first floor if that was diverted [1:01:41] away from being able to make it a you know let the market lease it at leas leasable rates that'll change the the [1:01:47] economics of the project I just want to be transparent about that um as I work with [1:01:53] staff so we're happy to chat in the next couple days I think that's that's the way to take it now is to talk talk to [1:01:59] staff about it it's a good idea and I think commissioner Egon was saying take a look [1:02:05] at it between now and the city council meeting and then we can revisit it there uh the only other thing I wanted [1:02:11] to cover today was to make sure uh that um we understood your staff [1:02:18] recommendation here and that everything's conion on the city council approval but um when when you talked [1:02:24] about the but four test I think we're at least I'm pretty comfortable with that but just to revisit one more time the [1:02:32] the key question I think you had in your memo and that was does the completed project deliver a level of short-term and long-term public benefit as defined [1:02:39] by City standards guidelines and policies that warant the use of tax income and financing and then you had an [1:02:45] extensive list of public benefits uh that would be delivered by the developer uh as a result of this project [1:02:53] and I think those are all either in your memo or in your slide presentation and um and then you also had some key [1:02:59] elements I thought that were important to consider that uh we don't normally see and that is one of the things we've [1:03:05] been worried about is how are we going to continue to finance uh that beautiful Centennial Lakes Park and make sure it [1:03:10] stays in great shape and the um and I thought the the the bar graph that you [1:03:16] had that showed the uh uh fiscal benefits the Citywide Park dedication [1:03:22] fee that will amount to almost $3 million and the Centennial Lakes Park maintenance fee of 3.21 were really [1:03:30] important considerations here as well in terms of public benefit so um I don't know if you'd want to revisit uh [1:03:36] anything relative to public benefit at this point in time but uh you know as I look at your memo you went through maybe [1:03:43] I can help you a little bit um compliance with site approvals compliance with Sustainable Building policy creation of new rental and [1:03:50] ownership affordable housing units creation of new outdoor public realm spaces including road way sidewalks [1:03:56] bicycle trails landscaping streetcape and public art coordination of site plan with future France Avenue pedestrian [1:04:02] Crossing creation of new covered parking uh stalls public parking stalls and those number what's that total number in [1:04:09] all those buildings remember about 140 I was going to think that was in my head was 140 [1:04:17] exactly yeah uh delivery of permanent public easements at no cost to the city pursue goals to contract with [1:04:22] disadvantaged businesses and hire capable workers who tend to be under represented in the construction [1:04:28] industry uh and then those annual payments in support of the park maintenance fund uh and then those [1:04:33] upfront payments on the city's Park fund sewer fund and water fund and and there are additional benefits as well like [1:04:39] funding for potential bicycle and pedestrian Crossings so um I I I take it [1:04:45] all of that led to you uh making the recommendation from the staff standpoint I want to make sure that's clear too [1:04:51] that you recommend that the HRA approve the Redevelopment agreements with Enclave uh Adina LLC and lifestyle [1:04:58] communities LLC conditioned on Final approval by the Adina city council is that correct correct that whole package [1:05:05] of benefits is what led to our recommendation and then the same thing with motion to approve resolution 20247 [1:05:11] establishing the 72nd in France uh number three tax increment financing District again condition on Final city [1:05:17] council approval correct okay same recommendation same project that cause either of the Commissioners to have any [1:05:23] further followup commissioner Jackson yes thank you Mr chair so uh in P in the [1:05:28] past the Tiff agreements that I've approved have included something beyond [1:05:34] the four corners of the property and I think it's very important to point out that this was designed in order to [1:05:41] accommodate the underpass and then as as you mentioned Mr chair the money for Centennial Lake so that's a very [1:05:46] important um uh persuasive thing for me to have that benefit beyond the four [1:05:52] corners of the thing so for future developments when they come to us I hope that that is what's in people's mind [1:05:58] that it isn't just to build the thing but also to improve the overall um [1:06:04] city thank you uh so uh I think we'll take these separately uh first of all uh [1:06:10] is there a motion to approve the tax increment financing Redevelopment agreements with Enclave Adina LLC and lifestyle communities LLC condition on [1:06:18] Final approval by the Ed city council so moved commission Jackson moves commissioner U seconds the motion is [1:06:24] stated uh any further conversation about the motion all right all those in favor of adoption of the motion as stated say [1:06:31] I I I opposed carried the Motions approved uh is there a motion to approve [1:06:36] resolution 20247 establishing the 72nd France number three tax increment financing [1:06:41] District again condition on Final approval by the D city council so moved second uh commissioner Jackson moves [1:06:48] commissioner uh AG seconds the motion is stated any further conversation on the motion all those in favor of adoption of [1:06:55] resolution 20247 by a motion say I I I opposed carried motion to approve resolution [1:07:03] 20247 establishing the 72nd France number three tax inment financing district is approv based on Final City [1:07:09] condition on Final city council approval um and just a final comment uh for you [1:07:14] Mr nindorf as I went through all the materials here and over time as you've worked on this uh I I think it's really [1:07:21] exceptional work and and to have the team that we have uh that represents the interest of the resident of the city of [1:07:27] Edina one of them who happens to be a resident of the city of udina who has a special vested interest in addition to [1:07:33] being one of the foremost attorneys in the state at the work that he does uh and our Public Finance people uh and all [1:07:41] of those that were involved on the other side of this agreement the the level of cooperation I was I would say is [1:07:48] extraordinarily uh impressive and the and the the comprehensiveness of the agreements is really uh a model for [1:07:55] anything think it's done I think anywhere in the country so congratulations to all of you for working on this project that's U going [1:08:02] to create a 300 million dollar plus uh amenity in our community it's really going to help take an area that was 60 [1:08:09] to 70 years old uh and uh and and and reshape it and take it from something [1:08:15] that could have been average to something that's really going to be exceptional so thanks for all that good [1:08:20] work now um we're not done we got one more matter here and uh [1:08:26] inent the city we're going to reconvene here as a city council in canvas to vote when we're done with this meeting uh and [1:08:32] the other matter we had before us this morning is 7200 France Avenue South uh staff has been working with the [1:08:39] developer there uh on some of the financing issues uh and the loan agreement and uh Stephanie Hawkinson our [1:08:47] affordable development housing development manager will present and we've got some folks here to assist if we need uh answers to [1:08:54] questions yes good morning and thank you and I'll try to be fast because I realize that um we're running short on [1:09:01] time so um today's request is to authorize staff to engage um dorsy and [1:09:07] Ellers to prepare uh spark agreements loan and all the corresponding loan [1:09:14] documents for 7200 France this is also I'm also requesting approve a deviation [1:09:20] of the affordable housing policy um to allow for 8% of the units to be affordable but in perpetuity instead of [1:09:28] 15 or 10% of the units being affordable for 30 years having 12 units be [1:09:33] affordable forever um and this is also to engage our Consultants to draft a First [1:09:40] Amendment to the existing 7200 7250 Redevelopment agreement to reduce the [1:09:46] percentage of increment being pledged to that so why today and this um graphic [1:09:54] was prepared by the Twin Cities housing Alliance to because it's been brought up [1:09:59] about the whole issue of site plan approval versus funding and why that order and so they created this graphic [1:10:06] when they do trainings um that developers don't know what's being [1:10:12] approved so they don't know the final costs so during the site plan approval process sometimes more articulation is [1:10:19] requested or greater setbacks or more glazing or there's something that could [1:10:24] be added to do as a condition for site plan approval that affects costs so [1:10:29] often projects the general process is you go through the site plan approval process then you know what your project [1:10:36] is and then you can establish what the costs are so this was recently the site plan was recently approved they priced [1:10:43] it out um based on that and then we can know what the costs are and determine [1:10:48] what is viable whether or not there's a gap um there's also right now there's [1:10:54] seasonal consider ations they would like this to it takes a while between approval to get all the final [1:11:01] construction docks done so they can be permanent ready get the footings and it [1:11:07] out of the ground prior to Winter conditions setting up this helps reduce the amount of Gap um winter conditions [1:11:14] um increase cost for construction and so that increases the Gap because their revenue won't increase so that's one [1:11:21] reason why this is coming in so quickly after site plan approval [1:11:26] so you know the site we've talked about it a lot so 7200 [1:11:31] France we have this was the former Office Buildings it's now a vacant [1:11:37] site the public realm improvements were approved previously they approved in April of [1:11:43] 2023 with the approval of 7250 so all those site improvements um [1:11:51] the site plan all that has been previously approved this was at the time a empty box part of [1:12:00] the um what was been approved there are two notes two Tiff notes for 7250 one [1:12:07] for the construction of the building and this part B was if 7200 gets built then [1:12:14] they get the bote um because what was happening was the parking for 7250 is in [1:12:22] 7200 so it helps offset that plus you have that increment you need the increment from 7200 to help support the [1:12:31] Tiff and the Redevelopment agreement for 7250 so even though this is a separate project it is very tied into one that [1:12:38] has already been previously approved so you recently approved the [1:12:43] site plan as Council for 7200 it's 150 Apartments they reduced it by three so [1:12:51] 12 forever affordable apartments it's located along a Transit cord complies with the Sustainable Building policy so [1:12:57] that make just to make it clear 150 was what was originally approved and then it went up to 153 15 and now it's back to [1:13:06] 150 they did some reconfiguring of unit mixes so two bedrooms take up more [1:13:15] space this project um as with the consideration the site plan does comply [1:13:22] with multiple plans that have been previously approved um the race and [1:13:27] equity and Idina implementation report our um and our biannual survey where [1:13:34] affordable housing is deemed as a major issue our comprehensive plan our [1:13:40] sustainability um and green policies uh one of the green policies [1:13:46] was increase in average population per developed acre by 4% and I know that that that's in the policy plan and this [1:13:53] is on a Transit Corridor so increase populations along the transit corridors to help with the use of Transit as well [1:14:00] and creating walkable communities the um addition of the 12 [1:14:06] units will help our approve our housing scorecard increasing the approved number [1:14:13] to 641 and in this area it's the 243 of the [1:14:18] 50% are below area meeting income so I just wanted to let you know where we were on the scorecard with these units [1:14:25] this does include the Macy site they are seeking about 3.8 million [1:14:33] do as a spark loan again it would be a forgivable loan it's 6.8% of the budget this is a $55 million [1:14:41] project um we have been working pretty steadily with um Ellers and dorsy on [1:14:49] sizing what is the gap for this development and this is the number that [1:14:54] we we that was determined um that is needed in order to make this project [1:15:02] go what are the cost drivers investor returns you hear that a lot but the [1:15:07] truth of the matter is um investors can invest anywhere I mean they can invest in residential they can invest in [1:15:13] anything and they can invest anywhere in the world and so when the market is doing well investing in residential is [1:15:21] less appealing when the market does poorly investing in residential is more appealing um and so it's really a market [1:15:28] driven and you have to meet the market in order to get the investment or they they walk they don't care about the [1:15:35] geography interest rates interest rates are um volatile they went down and they [1:15:42] went up you know they're so they're not steady yet there's no steady interest rate uh the other cost drivers is they [1:15:50] have to create 65 parking enclosed parking spaces for 7 250 that they're [1:15:56] not benefiting as a building for of 7200 but it's a swap 7250 is doing all [1:16:02] the infrastructure 7200 is creating their parking the inclusion of the affordable [1:16:07] units there is a cost to that they're not getting Market rents for that there's a cap on the rents they collect [1:16:13] therefore they can't leverage as much debt because there's that loss of income the sustainab building policy has costs [1:16:20] associated with it going above be building code there is a cost and that [1:16:26] um can be calculated and some of the exterior Design [1:16:32] Elements so the current tax capacity is about [1:16:37] 214,000 as vacant right now today when you're driving down France Avenue that is what the tax capacity [1:16:44] is with the two projects it's a little over about two and a quarter [1:16:51] million with just 7250 it is reduced if the the site at 7200 [1:16:59] remains a parking pad the tax collected on that area that would help serve the [1:17:05] approved pre-approved Tiff district is [1:17:12] reduced so we have a Redevelopment agreement in place that includes both sites the existing agreement has 10% of [1:17:22] the increment going to admin with 90 being pledged towards 7250 and the infrastructure for the [1:17:29] whole area with the amended agreement that is part two of this we're um [1:17:35] proposing that we amend it to increase the percentage that goes to admin to 20% [1:17:40] and reduce the amount that could go towards the project one of this reasons [1:17:45] is related to what you were talking about at the last project with Macy's was 25% increment for admin that could [1:17:51] be used for other infrastructure type costs and so that that's part of the [1:17:57] rationale behind this without using spark we had contemplated amending the [1:18:03] current Redevelopment agreement and allowing some of that increment that's being collected to go to 7250 instead we [1:18:09] said we have other public needs and we could capture some of that increment from the development of both sites to [1:18:15] help with some of that infrastructure so we talked about spark [1:18:21] already and we're T and it is a US or lose it type of funding and there is [1:18:27] that time commitment and we and since it was intended by the state legislature to Spur development spur Drive development [1:18:34] we created this legislation to get development going and so this is one of those examples where um this is one of [1:18:42] those developments that could benefit from the use of those spark [1:18:50] funds and you know I prepared this foreen bills [1:18:56] presentation so requirements to spark new construction must create jobs even [1:19:02] construction jobs and it must be able to um must not be able to proceed without [1:19:07] public financing without that three close to 3.8 million this project will not move [1:19:14] forward how spark funds been used there was about 9.3 in the pool and we have the ad [1:19:23] theater The Innovation lab small business grants that bill did mention um the finch and now this and then the 1.6 [1:19:31] that would be going to Macy's if this project is not approved it'd be that 1.6 plus this [1:19:40] 3.8 loan terms would they would it would be forgiven they would have to deliver [1:19:46] on 150 units of housing 12 affordable that would be secured by a declaration [1:19:53] of restrict Covenants for perpetuity they'd have to comply with the Sustainable Building policy they'd [1:20:00] have to deliver a go-ahead letter that means all their financing would need to be in place and they would need to be [1:20:05] able to break ground by July 1st we deposit the spark funds with an [1:20:10] escrow agent so during the construction period they would do draws we' evaluate [1:20:16] the draws and pay from the title company who would collect lean waivers make sure [1:20:22] all the due diligence was done and the work was completed for that draw they would have to supply a [1:20:29] certificate of completion that the project is done we would true up the costs and if they if the Gap we found [1:20:38] out that material prices dropped interest rates dropped the costs did not [1:20:43] come to what we thought they would be the Gap was reduced we would only provide what was needed so we would true [1:20:51] up the cost before our forgiveness and we there'd be a recorded Declaration of restrictive covenants for [1:20:57] the affordable units so [1:21:03] that with five minutes for discussion um so what I'm asking again is to support [1:21:10] our ability to go ahead and draft the documents where we could answer some of these questions more deeply with the [1:21:16] documents we would like to come back in December with some documents for a year [1:21:23] approval uh commissioner Jackson yes thank you Mr chair so just to be clear [1:21:28] the compromise that's in here is to reduce the number of affordable units from 15 to 12 per our policy and but to [1:21:36] make them affordable in perpetuity is that correct that is correct then [1:21:44] I so this will work um very much like the loan we just talked about uh it's a [1:21:49] forgivable loan um with the same mechanisms as as what we just discussed [1:21:56] correct okay I think that's it CH any [1:22:01] questions yes I do have one uh so I took the total amount of the spark component [1:22:10] the 3,700 and change and divided that by 12 [1:22:16] for 12 units and came up with approximately 314,000 [1:22:22] per unit right how does that feel to [1:22:27] you that from a math perspective that is correct and that would be high for an affordable unit it's not just the [1:22:33] affordable units it's the 65 parking spaces um that are that they are [1:22:38] creating for 7200 is also included in within that and the fact that there's [1:22:45] for the the project as a whole there's a gap there's a gap they can't they can't [1:22:51] the numbers don't work in part because of the parking spaces for 7200 in part [1:22:57] because the affordable units the Gap created by the affordable units is not the 3.7 million in part because the [1:23:04] sustainability um policy that also has created some of that Gap so there are multiple elements those cost drivers [1:23:11] that I talked about all of them have contributed to that 3.7 million the 12 [1:23:17] units of affordable maybe is about half of that okay and thank you [1:23:25] um the way that I think about this and I think about kind of it it's not Tiff I know that but it's similar in a lot of [1:23:32] ways and so when I think about us as a city deciding to invest into a property [1:23:38] I think about as you're saying what are the public benefits um I know that it's more intertwined [1:23:48] than what cleanly shows the investment into those public [1:23:54] benefit benefits particularly because of the [1:23:59] 7250 site and the investment that they're making but when I hear 65 units [1:24:05] or 65 parking spaces for the commercial site like that's not to me a public [1:24:12] benefit right um I understand that that's a a component of this but if [1:24:19] taking a step back we didn't have this affordable housing as a factor to this I [1:24:26] wouldn't entertain an investment at all like I believe that we should only be building things on this site that are [1:24:33] economically viable and so that's where while it's maybe a little skewed I [1:24:40] think that it is relevant to say when I take a step back and I'm looking at why [1:24:45] should I invest into this to me the only really compelling component is the [1:24:51] affordable housing and so that's why I resort to doing that math right um and when I think [1:24:58] about you might not have put a lot of analysis into this right but this is your business um so when we think about [1:25:06] 300 let's just say 314,000 per unit like how does that compare to other [1:25:11] Investments that we're making into a unit of affordable housing across the [1:25:17] rest of the community chair Commissioners when we did an analysis um with our previous [1:25:24] Finance director and we were talking about in December of 2022 the increasing the buyin we did [1:25:32] calculate that a more equivalent buyin amount would have been 320,000 per unit of non-affordability [1:25:54] of rent between a market rate and affordable was 320,000 now would I in an affordable [1:26:01] 100% affordable deal it may cost 400,000 to build that affordable unit but it [1:26:07] doesn't just come from the city it comes from tax credits comes from the state it comes from the county it comes from the metet council it comes from a variety of [1:26:13] sources so I would never suggest well I'm not going to say never it's unlikely [1:26:18] that I would come before you and request 314,000 per affordable unit and afford [1:26:25] on 100% affordable development because there's so many other sources in a market rate deal when you have [1:26:30] inclusionary you don't have those other sources the only source is the city you can't go to the Met Council you can't go [1:26:37] to Han County or the state because they don't look at these projects and when we first designed the affordable housing [1:26:44] policy we thought the Delta between the market rate rents and the affordable rents was enough to cover those losses [1:26:50] interest rates are double what they were construction costs are significantly [1:26:56] higher so that that Delta that market rate rent no longer covers the losses [1:27:01] from the loss of rent so when you initially asked me does it feel right 314 no because an affordable housing [1:27:08] deal I would not suggest that but that is truly the cost the loss of rental [1:27:17] income whether or not that equates with directly with what they could leverage in debt financing no it's not a direct [1:27:24] correlation because of noi there's you know lots of other factors which is why I said that the Gap cause may be less [1:27:30] but that is their losses okay thank you that is extremely helpful and I feel [1:27:37] more comfortable with this knowing that 320,000 figure um so thank you for that [1:27:44] um the the last question then that I have is um one I I commend you on being [1:27:51] able to find a solution here that results in permanently affordable units [1:27:58] um but I know we don't typically see that so can you briefly tell me how [1:28:03] we're able to ensure that even through potential sales of the [1:28:09] property chair Commissioners um State legislation allows declarations for the [1:28:15] use of affordability to last longer than a typical there are other reasons why [1:28:21] people might put restrictive covenants on a property for affordable housing they can go long they can go forever [1:28:27] it's it's recorded against the land so it stays on title so even if the [1:28:35] property sells the Declaration [1:28:41] remains so there isn't a way for a future owner or for this to go away it [1:28:47] is locked in we're protected it is recorded against the land thank you and [1:28:52] I will be bringing before you in December the Declaration and we're [1:28:57] putting safeguards in that declaration that if they are not complying I have come before um you in the past with my [1:29:05] an my report on compliance with affordable housing and market rate [1:29:11] and it's sketchy you know on how much the compliance is and in early projects we have no recourse so we are working on [1:29:18] how to build in an element of recourse if they are not complying even the next [1:29:23] St of this building thank you Mr lingren do you have a comment on that on that [1:29:29] permanent affordability issue I know that wanted to I agree with everything Miss hackinson said and I'm sorry I [1:29:35] stepped out on the other matter for a moment but but just so you get the whole picture of it is the way that you [1:29:42] restrict the use is through a restrictive covenant which under Minnesota law has always been limited to [1:29:49] 30 years so if we Tred to restrict our between our neighbors or ourselves that that's what it is so it isn't permanent [1:29:56] the legislature within the last couple of years changed it with regard to affordable housing so you can now have a [1:30:03] Perpetual Covenant binding a land forever so that's the way it would be [1:30:08] written and it's a good new tool frankly does that mean we can do it more [1:30:15] often in the future with other properties chair commissioner we legally Legally we can it's it's a it's cost [1:30:22] money um it's it's expensive to keep a project with reduced rents forever and [1:30:27] it's um it it creates a hindrance on the owner if they wanted to sell because it [1:30:34] is saddled with this for this restriction forever so it's a negotiating [1:30:41] tool so one thing I think it would be worth uh talking about is is to take a step back and and look what we how we [1:30:48] got here and what the commitment was on Tiff because I think this would be important to [1:30:54] the analysis of the overall potential approval uh and that is that I think [1:31:00] there's 11 roughly 11.2 million in Tiff that's already been approved for this project is that [1:31:06] correct chair um Commissioners it's 7.5 million um in the first note and [1:31:12] then another 1.6 so it's a little over oh excuse me I on I am going to refer to [1:31:21] Nick because I don't have my numb St great yeah so I think we need to frame up because where we're heading in in [1:31:27] this direction where I'm heading is that we had a number that was approved and we're trying to reduce that number of [1:31:35] tax andr financing Reliance by using spark funds that are use it or lose it uh and there's nothing wrong with the [1:31:42] Tiff use of the Tiff but we've got use it or lose it funds that we need to think about using here uh in the context [1:31:49] of the overall commitments that we've made from a partnership standpoint on the project which includes a lot more in [1:31:55] my mind than what's been discussed so far this morning Mr anut thank you Mr chair um and not to take away I think [1:32:02] the presentation has has said it but um right now the HRA has made a commitment [1:32:07] to provide 7.5 million worth of funding to 7250 in order to build out all for [1:32:13] both pads all of the public realm improvements that have been negotiated as part of that agreement so that that [1:32:20] remains in place and you've pledged the ability to use 90% % of the increment from this Tiff District to serve that [1:32:28] 7.5 million that 7.5 was was derived and [1:32:34] negotiated based on some uncertainty about what was going to be built on the 7200 pad there was a discussion of a [1:32:42] hotel or a commercial use and also maybe as just a surface parking so that [1:32:47] agreement specified and I think that's where Miss hackinson was going was that we commit to about [1:32:55] 5.6 I think is the actual number million dollars of that [1:33:01] 7.5 derived from 7250 in that office development we tack on an additional [1:33:07] amount up to the 7.5 million assuming that something got built on that 7200 [1:33:12] whether it was a hotel whether it was uh a residential building whether it was some other type of uh structure um and [1:33:20] so that's the commitment that has already been made for that Tiff District the budget that was adopted for that [1:33:26] Tiff plan when it was approved accommodates all of that right now with [1:33:32] an actual certainty about a residential build on that the dollar value that's [1:33:38] potentially available within that Tiff district is much higher up at the 11 million figure that you're referencing [1:33:45] Mr chair and so the decision I think is to decide whether or not we need to [1:33:51] maybe utilize that tool to help service this development or potentially use a [1:33:56] different form of financing through the spark program to uh alleviate the need [1:34:02] to increase the Tiff for this project and both will do the same thing both [1:34:07] will potentially deliver the project that's been approved um by the council [1:34:13] um both will potentially deliver the all the benefits that Miss hackinson [1:34:19] identified but they are two different mechanisms and so the spark fund would be money that you would put in right now [1:34:25] it would be forgivable loan based on completion of the project delivery of all those elements um but we could [1:34:32] alternatively consider increasing the Tiff amount to help pay for this [1:34:37] potential development now what would happen in that circumstance well we've already committed that 90% of the [1:34:44] increment goes to 7250 so it' have to be tacked on behind that commitment um it [1:34:51] would potentially mean that we needed to keep this District open for the full 26 years if we use the spark funds now [1:34:59] we've got a sizable chunk of that that we've got the still the revenue is still coming in to the Tiff District but now [1:35:05] we are limited to just 7.5 million in actual obligations on that Revenue so [1:35:11] now we actually think that we'd be able to get the funding for 7250 in place [1:35:17] within about 16 years and then you would be able to potentially terminate the Tiff District um so takes a sizable [1:35:24] length of time off of that commitment to move forward with this proposal with the spark program and uh delivering this [1:35:31] building on the site in addition we're also saying that y we we recognize that [1:35:36] you know that 90% commitment potentially was was more than we originally thought [1:35:42] um contemplating a different use of this property so we are also proposing that you amend that agreement to limit it to [1:35:49] now 80% which will free up some additional capacity to either fun other affordable housing needs or potentially [1:35:56] that underpass that is bridging this site uh across the street that potentially will create something in the [1:36:02] realm of 1.2 to 1.5 million of additional funding capacity again within [1:36:07] that shorter time frame as well and so those are the I just wanted to make that clear for you all as you engage in this [1:36:14] uh decision um there is an alternative but it would require that we're maybe leveraging those funds for the full 26 [1:36:20] years of the Tiff District all right good that's helped very very very helpful um so actually what you're [1:36:27] asking us to do today is just authorize you to go ahead and start a conversation with the developer about [1:36:32] the potential use of spark funds um commission we've been in a couple [1:36:40] months of discussions with them about the use of spark funds what I'm asking is that we proceed with drafting the [1:36:46] documents cor um for approval no but but you got to come back to us to get the [1:36:51] agreement approved exactly but you want authority to go ahead and work further with the developer to [1:36:56] actually draft a potential loan agreement that may potentially be approved by the H and the council [1:37:02] exactly that is correct all right so it's step [1:37:08] one um and and just a quick it's just kind of a recap of what [1:37:15] we did before with 7250 the reason we loaded the 7.5 million on the 7250 was I [1:37:21] remember all of the infrastructure improvements were going to be made in conjunction with the construction of [1:37:26] 7250 so the storm water uh holding Pond if you will that that amenity and all [1:37:32] the other public amenities we going to be we're going to be built in conjunction with 7250 which is nearing [1:37:39] uh issuance of a building permit now I think is that is that true correct okay commissioner Jackson has a follow on too [1:37:45] no okay so uh any other questions folks okay uh [1:37:51] is there a motion to authorize staff to work with City advisers and drafting a loan agreement and Associated documents [1:37:57] for 7200 France using spark funds and authorized s to prepare a First Amendment to the 7200 7250 Redevelopment [1:38:04] agreement reducing the percentage of increment pledged for potential future approval by the H so moved second we got [1:38:13] a motion second motion by commissioner Jackson second by commissioner eggner to the motion of stated uh any further [1:38:18] conversation on that issue all those in favor of adoption of the motion of stated say I I I opposed carried [1:38:24] motion's approved um we'll go to the next phase see where it this takes us okay very good thanks uh gentleman [1:38:33] for being here this morning from Orion and [1:38:38] um did you have any supplemental comment did the next item was it just an H comment or just [1:38:45] director's report yeah that's what I was heading next all right I'm actually going to turn it over to Bill and uh let [1:38:52] Bill come forward and tell you what's in your packet yeah yeah okay it only took a couple seconds it'll just take a [1:38:57] couple seconds hand off yeah so uh we've been talking about this underpass overpass Bridge Crossing for uh well [1:39:04] over a year now uh in your packet is the feasibility report that that is complete now um so in February of this year we [1:39:11] hired the LH the engineers and planners at lhb Inc uh to put to look into the [1:39:16] general feasibility of actually building something under the road was the first choice uh they finished that report they [1:39:22] found that it is technically feasible uh they they found that there is a way to design it so that people will will not [1:39:29] only feel safe but but feel comfortable in that space uh have not made a [1:39:34] determination on whether or not it's financially the right choice that's still to be to be decided but that [1:39:40] report is in your packet um no action is needed today but I wanted to just raise [1:39:45] and alert you that it is there at our City Council next week we will have a resolution prepared for you recognizing [1:39:52] that that work that the first step has done and asking for your direction to to [1:39:57] uh continue looking into that with further study so that'll be on next week's city council agenda M Jackson [1:40:04] thank you very briefly hennipen County and 9mile Creek um Watershed District are also Partners in this will who who [1:40:10] would have to approve any final um agreement correct uh henen county is uh [1:40:16] is the regulatory agency and the owner the park the uh Park District uh they [1:40:21] not the Park District district theed District I think that's what I said I'm sorry I misunderstood uh I think there's [1:40:28] a permit we need from the Watershed District but they don't have they're they issue permits for everything so [1:40:34] okay so yeah safety water engineering have not just us but those agencies [1:40:39] looking at it as well uh in some capacity in some capacity yeah we've had a lot of conversation with henin County [1:40:46] to really looking at the Transportation uh nature of it um so that's what has shaped where we are today um they did [1:40:54] put some constraints that we were hoping that we wouldn't have to live with but they were very clear that there's there are some constraints um and we've looked [1:41:01] into the general geology and hydrology of the site but we haven't applied for any permits or anything of that nature [1:41:07] that would all be forthcoming okay thank you uh anything further acting executive [1:41:14] director okay Mr Noor would you would you send me that uh that that feasibility study independent of the [1:41:22] sure happy too thank you we'll also have it posted on the Better Together web page oh good that's a good [1:41:27] idea all right uh anything further from H Commissioners right is there a motion to [1:41:34] adjourn so moved second commissioner egna moves we adjourn commissioner Jackson second the adjournment any [1:41:40] further discussion all those in favor of adjournment of the h meeting this uh what is it for 14th day of November uh [1:41:47] 20124 say I I I opposed carried H stands adjourned and we are going to conven in [1:41:53] a couple minutes as the city council to Canvas the vote of the November 5th [1:41:59] election