[0:00] uh welcome to the H work session It is May 29th 2025 almost through the month of May 7:31 a.m in the morning and I'm [0:09] going to ask Dinson looks like you're calling order today I can do so I do you [0:14] want me or um I'm calling I'm calling into order but you're going to call the role I'll read the role All right [0:22] Uh Commissioner Risser here Commissioner Pierce uh here Commissioner Jackson here [0:28] Commissioner Agnu here Chair Huff [0:33] It was the wrong order [Laughter] [0:40] Many ways to do it Well thank you all Um as you are aware [0:46] this is our third of three working sessions that we wanted to really get [0:52] our handle around um affordable housing goals priorities direction Um so [1:00] today we have a few of us are presenting We have Marissa [1:06] um our sustainability manager Thomas our diversity equity inclusion manager Jeff our community health administrator me [1:13] affordable housing development manager MJ community engagement manager Addison the community development coordinator [1:20] coordinator and we have Jay our accountant who's on the value fewinders team Um we have other contributors that [1:27] are listed that have been part of this whole process um helping you know put [1:32] together the um the the style of work sessions as well as the information [1:38] that's contained within them The whole reason we're doing this is [1:43] that on the 2024 2025 work plan we had advanced progress to affordable housing [1:49] goals including increasing housing options and developing a long-term growth strategy And so as staff we need [1:57] direction from you all on what does that mean and what how will we know when we [2:03] have accomplished this and how will you know when we have accomplished this [2:10] so um as stated this is the third meeting that we've had on this topic The [2:16] first one we talked about all the city policies and plans and actions and engagement that has occurred that helps [2:23] really direct and guide what we've done thus far in the area of affordable housing and how it intersects with which [2:30] is why there's a whole um multidisciplinary team of folks that have been working on this how it it [2:36] branches into a lot of different departments It's not a one department only topic Um in meeting two we reviewed [2:46] demographics um of the who lives in the city now what can current residents [2:53] afford um what percentage of current residents are um struggling to meet the [3:00] housing prices in the direction that the housing is going in Um and that's where [3:05] the government steps in You know the market will serve who the market you [3:10] know they're market forces and people are being served by the market Um and then there's government who helps along [3:17] the edges Um and then this meeting is pulling together the information from [3:22] the first two meetings and helping set direction Um what where should we go for [3:28] in the next two years not infinitely Um but for this budget work plan what is [3:35] the direction what would you like to see staff to focus [3:40] on so some of the highlights from the previous uh work sessions was there's [3:45] been extensive community engagement in creating the policies and plans that called for the creation and preservation [3:52] of affordable housing Um that fewer than 43% of Edina's fourperson households can [3:57] afford a medianpriced home that 22.5% of Edina's school district's student [4:02] population is here through open enrollment That Edina is aging with 40% of seniors requiring subsidized [4:09] affordable housing More than 32,000 people travel into Edina for work and [4:15] household size is shrinking with people having fewer children So more housing units are needed to maintain a [4:23] population since household size is shrinking Stephanie I forgive me for interrupting you but the 32,000 that's [4:29] updated because pre- pandemic wasn't it 40,000 40,000 So this is based off a deed information So yes it was 40,000 [4:38] and so it's an inexact number I don't know if we've done a full survey Okay [4:43] Yeah No thank you And I just finished listening to about 78s of the meeting [4:49] back in February and a lot of the points that you're raising we did have um [4:55] council or excuse me commissioner response to that And as I'm looking at [5:00] your slides I feel like what's missing is the voice of the commission and the comments that we made during the [5:06] February meeting and the second meeting I didn't get a chance to review that one But as I walk in here and I look and I [5:13] see you know the exercise we're about to go through um I think it's important to [5:19] recognize that you know we we were saying things that really are critical [5:26] toward how or if we can move forward and recognizing that you know we need we [5:32] need finance We need um otherwise you know all of this we can [5:38] say okay this is what we want but there are no resources so I'm confused [5:45] well and exactly so right now today is like envisioning session and we do there [5:51] will be a backs stop with you know as projects come forward and as we talk with you about financing how do we get [5:58] how do we achieve success so this is trying to figure out what would be success for you capturing all those [6:05] thoughts from before but we're not today We want to hear what you would like to [6:10] see We don't have answers um to capture all the the obstacles [6:17] right now I I just I feel like we all came and um participated in those first [6:22] two meetings and that what I'm seeing here on the screen [6:27] and on the wall does not reflect the commission um response and input that we [6:35] have given And I feel like that's there's a big disconnect here And um you know I would encourage everybody to go [6:42] back and listen to those first two meetings Um so it's it's frustrating [6:48] because it it feels like we almost didn't say anything at those two meetings We al I think just getting [6:53] started too Okay Maybe it'll come up later Okay Well and then I think it's also we take the information from the [6:58] three meetings to move forward This is not um this is a a third step It's not [7:05] an aggregate of all the discussion that has occurred in the previous two meetings This is what was presented at [7:11] the meetings but not the aggregate of the information that we're getting from you which can be encapsulated again [7:16] today with the information that we're getting from you [7:22] So benefit Julie made I think that um I view this that slide as more data driven [7:29] It wasn't intended to capture uh observations opinions thoughts [7:36] about or vision right but we had concern about that very information and the way [7:41] it was presented continue to manifest itself Yeah Just with that sort of background they got data Okay So here's [7:49] the benefits to creating more affordable housing um that we have heard through [7:56] time making sure our families and future generations of Edina residents can live and thrive here by making stable housing [8:04] affordable Increase those who both live and work locally When people live in community where they work the dollars [8:09] earned in the community stay in the community Provide opportunities for seniors to age in community which will [8:15] also allow also open older housing stock to younger families create a healthy [8:20] housing market across the continuum supporting upwardly mobile mobility for families reducing pressure of entry [8:26] point and mid-market homes fostering long-term prosperity So those are some of the ideas that were captured of why [8:33] even have this conversation at all So there are things that the city [8:39] can control and there are things that the city cannot control And so what is [8:44] not in our control we don't know what the financial capacity is of the various developers that come to us Um we do not [8:53] we cannot control private sales We cannot control whether or not someone will sell their home and then it will be [8:59] you know for good or for ill torn down and made into a luxury home even though right now it's a Noah property We have [9:06] no control over that We have no control over market forces We can't dictate what [9:12] demand will be We cannot dictate what interest rates are We cannot dictate any [9:17] of those things We can't really um control a loss in Noah I mean whether [9:22] it's multif family or single family Um private owners can sell to who they want [9:27] to sell They're not obligated to sell to the city They're not obligated to keep it affordable We can't control what [9:35] applications come into us We can't control who walks in our door and says they want to develop in the city [9:41] We can't control um employment hiring who's hired where they live of the [9:47] people that are applying for jobs that are in Dina We have no control over that We can't control the state county or [9:54] metropolitan funding criteria We can't ask them or tell them what their pointing criteria should be We cannot [10:01] tell them that they need to submit an eina We cannot tell them what um that [10:07] they should focus on certain types of housing over other types of housing We can advise but we cannot dictate it We [10:16] cannot control resident opposition that there is going to whatever decisions are made there will be some people that are [10:22] unhappy with those decisions And whatever direction you go in there's always going to be a level of opposition [10:28] And we cannot control school enrollment We can't tell people where they're going to send their kids to school be it at [10:34] Edina or private school or a proial school We cannot tell people that move [10:40] here where they're going to send their kids to school So what can the city control we can control future [10:45] development of city-owned land We can control zoning and land use We can [10:52] control the process of how projects can get approved local financial support [10:57] whether or not we want to and what kind We can control response how we respond [11:03] to the opposition that we're faced with and we can control how we set expectations So there are things that we [11:10] can control within the um universe of creating housing I have a couple [11:15] questions on that Um and maybe I'm going too far into the weeds on this but as I've been thinking about what our goals [11:21] are and what levers we have um can we say that a specific [11:27] um housing establishment and again this probably falls more into like the developer but can there be something [11:34] that's for families only like requires students or is that not allowed [11:42] we can say for cityowned land that we're [11:47] looking for multi-bedroom developments Um we can put if a [11:55] developer comes here and proposes a project it can be recommended that you [12:01] would like to see more multi-bedroom units Um but you know [12:09] there's going to be limits on financial realities of creating it It's more expensive per unit to build that And so [12:16] there there's a balancing act that would also need to be considered and you can't control that it's a family moving in as [12:23] opposed to a group of people Um one other question kind of in that same vein [12:29] Can we had you know we want people who can live locally and work locally Can we [12:34] say that you need to live in the city of Edina within a specific housing development [12:40] or there are fair housing laws that would prohibit some of those restrictions Okay that's what I assumed [12:47] Just wanted to ownership Go ahead Carol Oh just to follow up on on Kate's question the [12:53] federal the federal housing law prohibits discrimination of age and everything [12:59] except you can have a seniors only and that's 55 plus Correct Okay So if you're looking for a 65 plus that would violate [13:06] the Fair Housing Act There are two levels of senior housing 162 and 155 [13:12] Okay All right So there there are two levels that can be established Thank you [13:17] Um as I'm sitting here I did hear somebody when we said we couldn't allow [13:23] for housing for families um whisper that's not true And I don't know I mean [13:29] and this is a position where I feel like we need to ensure that whatever and [13:35] maybe it is true maybe it's not true but um compliance is a huge part of this and [13:44] we need to know that the ideas that are [13:49] being rejected or the ideas that are being promoted are compliant And I know like at a H meeting [13:58] you know the the example recently was lowering it from 8% I mean lowering it [14:04] from 10% to 8% for affordable units even though it was baked into the PUD in that past And so that this is I'm sort of [14:12] going down a tangent here but as we move forward we need to ensure that [14:18] compliance is part of the process And so I don't I don't know right i mean we I'm [14:25] going to really have to adhere to fair housing laws right so there's no way Okay Um and so and then I think when it [14:32] comes to compliance there's compliance to federal law there's compliance to state law and there's compliance to our own individual policies and where our [14:39] locus of control is you know depending on what levers we have and what stakes we have in the project as well I mean [14:45] everyone has to comply with fair housing laws But are we how do we ensure that what [14:50] comes to council is compliant and that we're not asked to vote on something that is not compliant compliant with [14:57] what Julie I think compliant with our code compliant with everything I mean because I feel like it's not getting [15:04] screened thoroughly and so we end up wasting we have to review it right but [15:11] we had that November meeting last year where the H approved um lowering the [15:18] affordable requirement for the 7200 project from 10% to 8% and then we had [15:24] to backpedal because um we would have had to amend the PUD but that passed and [15:30] so I I think we need as a body of the HR to know what we are voting on and we [15:37] need to know you know whether we're wasting time and it's it's something that is not going to voting on anything [15:44] today Well no but we're talking about sure that this conversation is prudent [15:49] to the workshop It is because yeah your point is fair Okay um when things come [15:55] before us whichever body we do rely on city staff to ensure that whatever is [16:01] bring being forward it um meets whatever standards it needs to Um in cases where [16:07] it doesn't we still do have discretion to make decisions right within a certain [16:13] framework And so I think we should just leave that there Well we can ensure that [16:18] that's the case We can put it in the bike rack too you know just the adherence to compliance But I but I do [16:24] think it's a good transition because what today is about is about creating those ideas right and we may not know [16:30] all the answers to your point Julie about compliance and all the legalities and that is our job But if we don't know [16:36] where to start to start digging in to find out what is even possible and where are some opportunities um we're never [16:42] going to know the answers to those questions So today is a little bit different Um information about the [16:48] format for today um emphasis on work of the work session Uh we asked you to uh [16:55] come here today to actually participate in some different um activities So thank you for uh coming on this journey with [17:01] us Um for today the majority of today is going to be actually doing um moving [17:06] through some activities and we have facilitators to help us um guide us through the process Um the thoughts are [17:12] not going to be clear There's no magic wand but this is your opportunity right to share those ideas um make space to [17:19] hear what others have to say and we have some really good methods to kind of um kind of clump those ideas together and [17:25] get to like what is the focus area of what we're looking for um for today There's four parts of this Um there's [17:32] part one talking about that success that um Stephanie has alluded to Um where are we headed we kind of need to know how we [17:38] know we got to that finish line Um part two the who who are we actually referring to the what comes into the [17:45] what types of housing are we talking about um and then part four that evaluation kind of circling back to kind [17:51] of do a gut check that what we kind of have put together and the ideas that we've um that we've come up with how do [17:58] those actually work into making sure that we might actually get to that finish line Um considerations for you [18:04] guys First thought not best thought right um kind of this is kind of sky's the limit like if you think it might be [18:09] an idea it's worth jotting it down It doesn't mean that it's the right idea It's the priority It just might be an [18:16] idea Um nothing is set in stone right today again is about um collaborating [18:22] talking with each other um figuring out where we're at um and just putting those ideas down so that the staff the team [18:28] and especially Stephanie can go work on some of these things um to bring back to you Uh we do have what we refer to as [18:35] the bike rack Um we like from the sustainability lens to use a bike rack instead of a parking lot um to actually [18:41] hold some ideas We know there are other things that are lingering out there that you want to know more about but it might [18:47] not actually be um something that we can tackle for today's conversation Um so [18:52] that's how today's going to work We do have a timekeeper Marissa is going to she might yeah kind of help us to move us to make sure that we make it through [18:58] all the activities Plus she's taking really good detailed notes Um the rest of the individuals are going to help with um facilitating today as well um [19:06] might be a little bit of moving around uh out of your seat So so thank you everyone for coming to this workshop [19:11] today Um one thing we want to acknowledge before we actually get started is that this isn't an easy [19:16] conversation Um and we struggled with this right putting this together in a way that made it feel more comfortable [19:22] and there wasn't a great way to do it Um we want to just acknowledge that everyone is important right we want to [19:30] make sure that we have the and are meeting the needs of our residents and potentially for people who come here Um [19:36] figuring out what our role is in government is something that we're trying to figure out what we can do best [19:41] Um there are some questions about um who is here um and how we hope to keep them [19:47] there What we're what we're focused on is not the everyone It's the individuals [19:52] who might be here that in order to stay here they might need something that we maybe don't have in stock So we're not [20:00] saying that everyone's not important We already know that you believe everyone is important but we're asking you to [20:05] think about those individuals that you might want to say let's see if we can focus on them so we can make sure that [20:10] they stay within our community and how do we attract others to this community as well So um with the first activity [20:18] I'm going to hand it to Addison All right thanks So as Stephanie mentioned it's on our budget work plan to advance [20:24] progress to affordable housing goals including increasing housing options and developing a long-term growth strategy [20:30] So for just the first activity we wanted to start kind of high level and ask you what does that mean to you what would [20:36] progress towards our affordable housing goals look like so you all have post-it notes Um like MJ said there's no like [20:43] right or wrong answers here It's just putting ideas down on paper So we wanted to ask you to write down as many ideas as you can think of of what does [20:50] progress towards affordable housing goals look like to you Um just one idea per postit and then we'll come around [20:56] and pick those up and put them up on the the board there and then um we'll circle back in a little bit and try to group [21:01] those and and identify themes So we'll take about 3 minutes y to do that Okay [21:21] Is there is there [21:39] 75 [22:01] So definitely don't do that We are ahead of time So even if it isn't it's still [22:06] an idea Perfect So I do think that it's worth okay saying like yeah I would say [22:14] also too things that maybe that we put everything that even things that you find out right are not [22:22] in complant or legally we're able to we want to identify those have a repository [22:31] that's a do you have a here can you write it with customer [22:37] on the sheet on that Yeah No just on your post or whatever You could just you [22:42] know you could just write it on the sheet too No I'm afraid I'll sleep [Music] [22:48] Ah no big deal We'll get a new wallpaper in here [Laughter] [22:55] Scott can we make this i'll come and grab it I'll come and grab it when you're done Or you can get off Either [23:01] way Scott can we make this a race board no Okay [23:09] That was the one thing that I miss at the fire station is all the way to raceports That's where [23:15] we used to hold all of our meetings cuz we would use them Give folks one more minute to jot down your ideas [23:45] Jeff say Jeff is supposed to be the next person We're jumping right into [23:55] he's doing the right on time Everyone was so concerned [24:02] like Jeff you're up next [24:08] Oh yeah So so Addison will grab Postit [24:15] and then Jeff you're taking over now Okay Do we need to advance this oh thank you I was like how come everyone else [24:22] gets the fun color and are you all new here i've been here [24:28] for a little over two years Okay I'm sorry Our pods have never crossed I know I I don't think I've been to a meeting [24:34] Anyway good to meet you Kate I might need half your pink posted I don't know what happened to my pink ones All right [24:41] there we go Thank you You ready [24:48] okay So now that your brains are all warmed up Addison's going to group those as we do this next one Yeah Take mine So [24:54] this is a two-parter We're talking about the who So first we're going to focus on with the darker pink retaining people [25:01] that are here already What groups of people just whatever comes to mind Who do we want to retain what residents do [25:08] we want to retain in the community so we're talking about the who whether that's a you know demographic group or [25:14] whatever comes to mind So we're going to do three minutes on retention and then we're going to do attraction But we're [25:22] going to start with retention And that is your top pick kind of [25:28] So again to be really importantly clear the market is going to take care of a [25:33] lot of this This is for government involvement where there may be where can government assist in the retaining and [25:40] retent the um attraction of residents that is not being currently held helped [25:47] by the market So if you could wave your magic wand and [25:54] create housing who would you want to live in there yep And keep in mind we we level set you Everyone's important Those [26:00] individuals that might need something different how do we retain them and make sure that there's something in our stock [26:06] that's available for them second part who do we want to make sure there are opportunities [26:14] for that we don't have currently so wonky about its Caninesian economic [26:21] like theory off of Adam Smith Government when the market fails government steps [26:26] in So when the who is the market not addressing so government needs to step in [26:36] Is this both a who and a how question it's a It says who It's how next [27:00] I guess a way that I think about it is like if we don't have any um way to help [27:07] someone stay here who are we at risk of having to leave but not fair This isn't [27:13] Is this just about creating new homes or is this about ensuring their expenses [27:20] don't rise it's just about people Okay The who [27:26] okay I guess like an example like if someone's getting priced out of their [27:32] house they can't afford to stay right okay [27:41] This one's Yeah I know I think I have one Let's add Let's do plus one minute [27:47] We're going plus one Are we doing You're just doing retention right now Retain Okay So who's here now that we [27:54] don't want to leave usually where I be Yeah I [28:08] like 10 It's huge and [28:13] throw fences in between the courts [28:20] There is not It's like a park buffer Yeah So that makes a difference [28:27] So those are some of the so as kids grow out of the system [28:33] they have to leave in order to find people who are leaving We're ready [28:39] Yeah Okay We're moving on to orange pink I guess [28:47] Salmon salmon coral Okay Coral salmon So now we're thinking [28:52] about groups of people who's not here or who are the types of residents that we [28:59] want to attract uh to 3 minutes or should we four three [29:05] minutes Okay Chris has got the time [29:45] Does she have [29:50] cool yes [29:57] [Music] [30:10] We're going to first [30:24] be two minutes question and move on [30:37] One minute more This is [30:54] to a large group discussion We move to a large group discussion after this [31:01] What are you doing after this [31:10] i can wear it when we're not on camera but I feel like Oh when we're on camera you got to wear it Yeah [31:19] You don't plan your wardrobe based on being on camera That was when when I was first elected [31:27] Ann Swinson called up and said "Don't ever wear a pattern when you're on camera." I'm going to put it in postits [31:33] I'm going to do that next time And then Addison's going to talk through the themes that were kind of assembled [31:40] in the first one I'm just going to take these here All right [31:48] Maybe See I thought it had to be if it was a tight pattern like you had No that would [31:55] still make the camera go probably Oh I think so Yeah yours would be worse I think we should have [32:03] I didn't even think about But then we're not I think Addison All right I'm up Okay So I took all of [32:11] your ideas for how you would define success and tried to group them into different themes here where you guys had [32:17] some some overlap and similarities and I guess you I'll I'll tell you what I did [32:23] You tell me what you think So I put them into I think four groups So a lot of you wrote down things about housing options [32:30] for people in different circumstances So um giving housing options to people who [32:36] work in Adina increasing variety of housing options making housing available for retail and hospital medical lower [32:43] income employees create options for people who don't want to maintain a yard but want [32:49] to own Providing sufficient housing opportunities for uh [32:54] disabled or young adults help seniors find safe transition housing with [33:02] walkability workforce housing options providing qualifying seniors a [33:07] chance to stay in Edina So those were all about just a wider variety of housing types for different people Um [33:13] the second one was seemed to be about um mostly ownership um towards young [33:20] families So we had options that appeal to young families median home value under [33:26] 600,000 more affordable ownership options enhance home ownership in some [33:32] form and find a way to partner with entities that can match Noah with home buyers So these were all about home [33:40] ownership Um and then we had a few that were kind of around funding Um so to define success [33:48] we need more info regarding how much the H budget has been spent on affordable housing We have a sustainable source of [33:55] funding to invest in affordable projects and defining [34:01] um what can be accomplished without financing it says um and then a couple [34:08] that were just about just increasing housing in general So increasing housing [34:13] stock and increasing density along Burden that will induce Metro Transit to bring back bus service to Western [34:22] Edina Does that seem like a fair grouping sure [34:28] Yeah All right One of mine was on financing was [34:33] without outside finance What can we do on our own okay What can we do on our own [34:41] all these other things are now uncertain [34:49] All right my turn Okay so just uh try to group these [34:57] retention We have a bucket around uh retirees seniors people who want to [35:03] downsize Um this one is people who are on tight incomes and struggle to stay in their [35:10] homes I put that in that same bucket Does that make sense to whoever wrote that one yep Um adult children of Dina [35:19] residents with intellectual physical disabilities Um seemed like one to stay [35:24] on its own Families with children in school young adults who grew up and want to stay here Uh and anyone who wants to [35:31] live here That's good um attraction [35:37] um people interested in maintaining Noah reducing solid waste from tear downs Marissa likes that one Um again or uh [35:46] one focused on uh families with school age kids young families adults with [35:52] children in Nina education-minded families of more limited means Put those together uh young single adults and then [36:00] this one is mostly about uh people working in town people who work in the community already police officers nurses [36:06] teachers people who want to live and work in Diana workforce for retail and medical in town and school and city [36:12] employees Seems like that was a a common theme Um and then attracting retirees [36:18] seniors and elderly wanting to stay and downsize in the community And [36:25] then um then also the families with disabilities wanting to stay that one [36:30] seems like it should stay on its own or maybe go with adults and children or is [36:36] that one I think it's more with the one that also is by itself that was mine Yeah I think those are the same thing [36:42] This one about maintaining uh a naturally occurring before Oh no never [36:48] mind Okay I feel like that one is a little I had it on the pink side and you had [36:54] the coral side Yeah Okay So I think we have some some common [37:01] things Any questions clarification Are they in [37:08] the right places okay Just checking I'm just want to understand how we're [37:14] going to use this That's all So don't answer that Let's just keep going Okay Okay Trust the process Yeah You're two [37:21] steps ahead Okay All right So how are we going to use this [37:32] so this is one of the charts that um I know you saw in the last two sessions Um what you see on the wall here is [37:39] basically that chart broken up Um so we want you to think about uh first people [37:45] So who are we serving and who are we trying to serve um and you just did that really quickly Um we want you to think [37:51] about what success looks like Um and you've already started to develop some thoughts on that Um so now we want you [37:58] to think about like the specific housing types that we want to focus on uh going [38:04] forward Um so you have some red dots in front of you U there are five of them Um [38:11] there are no rules for how you use them Um so you can put them all in the same box Um you can put them all on the same [38:17] chart Um you can spread them out however you decide to use them Um however you decide [38:23] to prioritize individually Uh but just thinking about the conversations we've had prior to today the conversations [38:30] you've had in community projects that have come up and what our needs are which of these housing types do you want [38:36] to focus on um so in each one we have ownership um [38:41] and rental broken out as well as as you can see new and then Noah as well [38:49] Um and so again we 3 minutes cut So on this one though [38:57] I are we qualifying I mean we're talking about affordable housing and so is the [39:04] assumption if we say we want single family homes that those homes are affordable [39:10] Uh that would be the assumption But if you want to write a qualifier on them [39:17] like because we have we also have on the sticker Yes Since this is affordable housing discussion that's all Yeah Yeah [39:24] But I mean we also you know will balance it against you know success which has some [39:31] qualifiers on that [39:36] So the red dots mean we support it It's not like red dot Okay [39:43] So this is where we would want to take action as a government to help people who otherwise wouldn't be able to your [39:49] priorities like if if you want to direct staff on where your priorities are for [39:56] where we should stick our energy where do you want it to be and also to help you guys too formulate as [40:03] projects come before you how help you try to weigh out how you going to view [40:09] them um and and keeping in mind you know who [40:15] you how you're defining success and who you want to attract and retain and how [40:20] does that fit into those different boxes Okay So and this is part three or four [40:26] So we are going to go back and revisit what you selected in this section with success And this is not [40:34] like again what what MJ said This isn't written stone You guys are not taking a vote that's going to be [40:41] codified It's to help give direction You can stack your dots if you want You [40:49] already tell you you could do that The way I think of it is like it's almost [40:55] it's it'll be informative for staff too where there aren't dots Yeah [41:01] Like Okay But I don't think you guys can make that assumption though So I think [41:06] this is really when we come back like I think you got to synthesize all of it [41:12] and come back Yeah Cuz I might make a different [41:18] decision Like I care about ownership and so if I had enough dots I [41:23] would have put dots on all the ownerships Budget [41:28] right we're trying Yeah But I think the value is if someone else thinks well we need a better balance of rental then we [41:35] have to have that right conversation So give me an example of low-rise multif [41:41] family So the last three duplex triplex town home lowrise multif family all fit [41:48] in the whole umbrella category of missing middle It's like a threestory apartment [41:54] right but we can't build those anymore because of the ADA I I would I would [41:59] fill all apartments be six plexes with a courtyard in the middle but that's not [42:04] feasible to be built I just It's not Why isn't it feasible because you have to have an elevator and it makes it too [42:09] expensive Oh but I think so That's why I was asking the qualifying questions I I [42:15] think you shouldn't think about that If you think that that is something that you want [42:21] that you would value then I think we have to Well I just don't think it can be built like a Dina Flats I think is a [42:26] good example of like a flat Sorry Um Valley View Wooddale Um there's flats [42:33] Yeah But this area right no No Sorry Do you consider that lowrise no [42:41] That has 70 I would think it's more like 20 units Like small smaller multif family of like [42:47] you know like three 3 to 19 unit multif family first floor people built on them You [42:55] have to get an elevator if you have that many units Well so 4040 has an elevator but that would not be But that would be [43:01] multif family It wouldn't be lowrise It wouldn't be low So I mean the other problem here it seems to me is that this [43:07] all is assuming uh non seniors [43:12] so this is I don't see how you I don't see how you work in the seniors here Well I mean [43:25] could be I mean 4040 and Avidor fall into this category [43:36] I think you can and I think um the new lifestyle communities falls into this category I think you can't think about [43:42] that Can we but to your point about Eina [43:50] flats or view 44 right and those are both purely [43:56] residential on commercial land Non-compliant with code [44:01] No but back to the whole compliance issue and I think yeah they got built but down the road we could have serious [44:08] issues with that I mean they're not I was using it as an example but But [44:14] this issue about compliance is pervasive and we can't keep doing what we're doing [44:21] It just Oh Oh Oh Oh Okay [44:26] Yeah It's those those million dollar condos Yeah Which is not affordable at [44:32] all Right But that's like the size Yeah For the size There's no way to do it [44:37] right by the So that's what I'm having conversation We've been having this conversation all summer [44:45] [Music] [44:52] Kate I thought your donut disappeared I looked over there and I didn't see it and then it was back I'm losing my mind [45:00] We're going to start to transition to part four of this but um just wanted to [45:06] recap um there is clear interest in the ownership category [45:13] um across um it's like all but the low-rise multif family Um and then there is some [45:19] interest and rental specifically multif family and low-rise multif [45:24] family Um so I know that we asked you to [45:32] prioritize really quickly and we were really intentional about just five dots Um we know that we probably could have [45:38] had dots in all of the categories Um and again this exercise wasn't to limit our [45:46] focus as staff um or as a HR um but really just to help prioritize um as we [45:53] continue to think about uh the future Um and so as promised we are gonna take [45:58] this information um that you just did in this exercise and tie it back to success [46:04] Um so I'm gonna turn it over to I'm going to try Okay So workforce [46:11] housing options Uh we want housing for people that work [46:17] in Edina make available for the lower income employees at the hospital and medical workforce housing Do you feel [46:27] that no ownership or new or rental new [46:33] or any of these help you achieve entrylevel lower wage workers in [46:41] Edina well that's I know that's such that's too broad because a city employee is [46:49] going to be able to hopefully make enough money to buy a home Uh orderly at [46:55] the hospital won't be able to buy a home regardless of what level So that that's [47:00] too broad to narrow it down Okay [47:10] Um from my understanding based on the data that we have from deed the incomes [47:16] of a lot of the employees in that um for the jobs in Dina you know Southdale 50th [47:22] in France the hospitals are of the lower wage jobs um and for [47:32] ownership housing it there would probably be I mean just and we don't have to make it again this is not [47:38] decision-m it would be heavily subsidized um because if they could afford a $200 $250,000 home that that [47:47] has a bearing on whether or not the focus to address them is in this [47:52] category would probably have greater gap again not making that decision now but [47:57] just highlighting it where multifamily rental probably is more in the area that [48:05] would serve that income level of folks [48:10] um that work in Dina at service industry type jobs would be more in the line of [48:17] Noah rental um which we guide them to but if they sell and flip we don't we [48:24] have limited control over that although we have help we're trying working on preserving some Noah [48:31] um and There may be in some area of this [48:39] depending on the level of subsidy Again if it's going to be a $250,000ish [48:45] $300,000 home the level of gap will be different If it's in this category if [48:50] it's lower density seniors retaining seniors and [48:56] allowing seniors to stay in the community Um we talked about that a [49:03] little bit and in this area it's pro that's probably not going [49:09] to serve seniors in this category that want to stay in the community but want [49:15] to downsize where seniors may get served more is in this area Can Can we go back [49:23] to that though the single family because I think we could be a city where you [49:30] could have more homes being built that are smaller in size if [49:38] we you know went back and we looked at you know when one of the tools is our [49:44] zoning and you know having it written in that if it's under a 9,000 square foot [49:50] lot you only have to have 25% pvious surface If we went back and made it [49:55] consistent with the other ones 30% There is a possibility maybe we could get a little bit smaller homes being built And [50:01] I think that would be great for you know so many things For seniors you're looking at reduced driving reduced uh [50:09] strength to do yard work things like that So you know that's that is what prompts people to leave their homes And [50:17] so that's I think why senior housing is different from regular from general [50:22] market housing So if a senior is vigorous and still driving and still doing um you know yard work and [50:28] everything they're not looking to leave their existing home So I think that's why senior is is different Um so you [50:36] know they if they're living in a million-doll house and they want to go down to a $500,000 house is what you're [50:41] talking about or you know fill in the numbers But I think when we talk senior housing we're talking people who are [50:47] looking at the aging process and wanting to get out of some of the burdens of single family home ownership Well [50:53] there's an article in the paper recently about a project in Chanhasson that I think is attracting a lot of seniors and [50:59] it is small lots tightly fit town homes and that would require a land use So [51:05] that's something that you know land use and zoning is in your locus of control [51:11] Um so trying to figure out making those connections between land use [51:18] and retaining and success as you know as we move forward I [51:24] think the this is my observation but I think the reason you see all those dots on [51:30] Noah single family home ownership is because all of us have been in these discussions with the school district and [51:37] all of us understand that we're birthing 10,000 fewer kids a year in Minnesota than we were just a decade [51:42] ago and and uh our immigrant population is probably going to be affected by [51:48] national tragedies So what what Hazel Reinhardt taught us was all the kids [51:54] were in single family homes and the anomaly was at least for me the more expensive the house more kids there [52:00] were So I think my uh supposition is that we're [52:07] all thinking that if we want to keep our school district vital we got to have people coming in [52:13] with families to be in the pipeline And to the extent that we can help them be in the pipeline by using uh the land [52:21] trust model that we've got with about 15 houses that's a good thing And so I think you're seeing a [52:28] kind of a primary emphasis on that amongst this council making that's that's that's priority number one How do [52:35] we keep our town vital and keep a pipeline of people coming in we're in we live in a town where there's as many [52:41] people over 65 for sage wise as there are under 18 [52:46] And so we think about different groups differently but at the end of the day how to keep [52:52] your town rejuvenated and restocked of people that are aging a place is really [52:59] important Well and I think what comes into this is um absolutely the land [53:05] trust the partnership those are becoming harder because housing prices we had a [53:10] limit of what they could spy on spend on house and those that limit is going away [53:16] I mean the limit's still there but those houses that fit within that limit um it was about 4 400 425 Habitats has a [53:24] problem with spending more than that They turned down a house because for their mission it was too challenging um [53:29] and we're we're losing them you know due to increased housing values and loss of [53:35] stock So we do have that program but we also with um come home to Edina you know [53:42] was a mechanism that allowed people to move into those homes and that's on [53:47] pause So I mean those were some mechanisms that we have So where where I [53:52] thought you were going to go is just a tangent off of member [53:59] Risser If this is where we're thinking we should focus You [54:06] started with a slide that says here's what's in our control Here's what's not in our control And so where I thought [54:12] you were going to go is all right for single family homes here's what's in our control These are the factors that make [54:19] new um almost impossible But if we want to do that [54:25] then here's what we as a city can do to influence that And part of that is [54:31] funding Part of that is zoning right there are some things we can do uh to [54:37] encourage those options And then just for me like I appreciate the exercise [54:45] but I'm like my definition of success I wouldn't like I wouldn't take [54:52] any of these options off I want the most options in our community that serve the people who want [54:59] to live here And so like for me it's it's at that level Um and so the [55:06] specificity of saying somebody who has a lower income [55:12] or who's in this job or that job if the options are there and we [55:18] don't have we will never have options to serve everybody but there's some elements um [55:26] within our community that we actually don't have products available for them [55:31] And so I want to solve that and I want to solve it in a way that makes [55:36] affordability across EDA better [55:42] So how can we help i mean again we're trying to get guidance [55:48] from you but as an example um you're going to be discussing future development of a [55:54] property Does this play a role at all in your decision- making and if so how do [56:02] we help you with the information that's being provided if it doesn't play a role [56:07] in your decision-m I mean that's fine but h how you know do we do we helped [56:14] provide that information on this is where you own land you can set the [56:22] direction What do you want you know and we've gone through some of those exercises and we're now evaluating Does [56:29] that play a role in your evaluation and so you know we we've been somewhat [56:35] agnostic about that Um but would it be helpful to be less agnostic about the [56:42] role that is with regards to affordable housing [56:47] um and so you know I I my title and my [56:53] being is an advocate And I know that that is sometimes troubling Um because [56:59] it seems like every time I walk in a room I have an agenda Um and maybe I do but so we you know we try to back off [57:05] and the decision is yours Um but if you need more guidance and in having this [57:12] these variables play a role in some of these decisions that are in front of [57:19] you Um you know I guess do I do that [57:25] um and because we will take this and we will you know let me just articulate [57:31] something that my husband and I have been talking about So we met when we lived in Chicago in the 1980s and [57:39] Cababrini green was a real thing and in people's minds low income rental and [57:45] this 1800 number is we'd have to build Cabrini green in order to meet that and [57:51] I think you know that's completely off the table It didn't work in Chicago It does wouldn't work here And so when when [57:58] the when the conversation is we have this massive goal this massive number [58:04] and we h you know the Met Council has set it for us and based on these scientific factors the reality is it [58:10] we're never going to build Cababrini Green in Edina absolutely no way not know how and so we have a need for [58:19] income variety in our city and I think that we're all agreed on that okay we [58:24] don't want just people who can afford $2 million homes We want to keep um diversity of many kinds and that makes [58:31] us a more resilient and strong community Our tools are [58:36] limited Okay If we want to build 100% affordable housing tall apartment buildings that would fit the need of [58:43] what our partners in affordable housing are pushing for And I just said we're not going to [58:50] do that because it doesn't work It never has worked And so we are a f a city [58:56] that's about what 93% single family homes something like that 94 93% of [59:01] residential land use is single family 93% of single of land use is single [59:07] family homes Okay I'm sorry And so that [59:13] is who we are right now and what we're working on So to transform that into [59:19] something where there are many rental buildings that are affordable housing is just a a massive change and and we're [59:27] not advocating for that So what do we have within somewhere between this and this the middle ground and so that's [59:34] what we're trying to express here is we want some middle ground And um when the [59:41] only options that come before us are 100% affordable housing or apartment buildings with inclusionary housing we [59:47] get frustrated because we're not meeting meaning this middle ground And the the small single family homes that that [59:53] Julie is very ad this powerful advocate for is very very difficult to deliver [1:00:00] Okay Whether it's through zoning or through um purchasing them and everything Okay That's that's just [1:00:06] really rare So is there anything in the middle ground where we can serve these we've identified the people who need [1:00:12] housing who aren't getting it who are members of our community one way or [1:00:17] another And that's that's the the puzzle but that's where our I sense that the [1:00:23] community's energy is is in this this middle area So we have to have some multif family because there's a housing [1:00:31] shortage Okay we just have to acknowledge that there's a huge housing shortage and we need to build more units [1:00:36] Period End of sentence But to the extent that we have limited funds and limited energy I would put it all in this middle [1:00:44] area And this is not particularly helpful for me because we need it all [1:00:51] But the energy that we have and the tools that we have we would like to focus I personally speaking on behalf of [1:00:57] the people I've talked to in my community want to create some of this if possible because it's more like who we [1:01:03] are now Um so we we retain the character of this beautiful city that we have but [1:01:09] it meets a need that's not being met So I'm sorry that's my soap box but that's helpful But this this this really [1:01:16] confuses me So so when you say the middle they're trying to be in the middle [1:01:24] In your own mind who do you think we should be trying to provide housing opportunity for in the middle what do [1:01:31] you mean by that people who um want to live in Edina but don't have the [1:01:37] financial or uh interest in maintaining a yard Okay okay So they want to own [1:01:43] their home but they don't want to have a mower and all that So that's like a town home or uh you know the low-rise multif [1:01:51] family or something like that So someplace where you can move and live and have an ownership interest but you [1:01:56] don't have to have a garage full of tools to maintain the yard and maybe you can walk someplace So so a little bit [1:02:03] denser than a single family home and with options to not be a homeowner in [1:02:09] the traditional sense Okay So that's one Um and so that would be seniors that [1:02:14] would be people from cultures that don't keep yards right we talked about number of people who live in Eden Prairie [1:02:20] prefer to live in town homes where they that's more in line with their culture Um so that would be my top priority and [1:02:28] that is several of these options right um and then also people who are working [1:02:35] in our community and have to drive a long distance to get here um because [1:02:40] there isn't they can't afford to live here And so that would be multif family low-rise multif family So we want safe [1:02:48] comfortable place to live and potentially walk or bike to work Um and [1:02:53] so that'd be at 50th in France it'd be at the hospital that'd be at Southdale Mall at Galleria Um and those are folks [1:03:00] that are already members of our community but aren't living here And then another subset of employees are [1:03:07] government employees whether they work for the schools whether they work for uh the city um you know they work for [1:03:13] Hopkins or Minnetonka or something That is a higher level of income but not [1:03:19] achievable in Dina currently And so that's another population because I think if you're going to work in a [1:03:25] community it's very helpful for the people you were serving to also live here And that's a policy And so single [1:03:33] family housing you know the Noah preservation is just such a tiny slice of what we can do What other options do [1:03:40] we have for people who have families who are a slightly higher income level but [1:03:45] not able to afford a $2 million home in Edina but we wouldn't want to live here And so [1:03:50] that's those are the areas I'm thinking So some of it's rental some of it's ownership So I just [1:03:58] I disagree with the the [1:04:05] u the way we can focus this So everything member Jackson just [1:04:13] said three years ago four years ago I would have said the exact same [1:04:20] thing But now I feel like it's not appropriate for [1:04:26] me to and you're not doing this but I'm going to use this word to judge people's [1:04:33] ability to live in EA And so I don't even think about what they make where [1:04:40] they work I'm not making the assumption that people who work here even want to [1:04:45] live in Edina right but I used to I used to think that way Now I am at a point [1:04:53] where I think I want to look at the market and I want to have the [1:04:59] conversation which is just a grayer area of where you're going What products do [1:05:06] we have in our marketplace to serve the people who want to live here and so if [1:05:11] somebody wants to live here and is a teacher then we ought to have some [1:05:16] options in the dinina for that teacher The other teacher may want to live in Burnsville because they want to have [1:05:25] more land I don't know But whatever their decision is is their decision I [1:05:31] think for me our challenge is we just have such few options that are [1:05:39] affordable in the diamond like 93% single family homes right and our [1:05:46] median home value now is what is this 670 every 7 750 [1:05:54] and so two years ago we said it's going to be over a million and we're on that [1:05:59] trajectory it's going to medium home it's going to be over a million Um and [1:06:05] those macroeconomics from a housing perspective just don't work for [1:06:11] sustaining a community Um and so this may not be helpful for you [1:06:18] guys but that's how I think about it here The success for me is more houses [1:06:24] that are at or below $600,000 Does that serve everybody [1:06:30] probably not We probably need some lower than that But when you look at the law of averages that suggests we're still [1:06:36] going to have the some $10 million $5 million $2 million homes and we're going [1:06:42] to have some on the other end of the normal distribution but we have to figure out [1:06:48] how to be able to bring that product to market And that's what I don't Yeah I [1:06:54] don't know how to do that and what so we funding we talked about that and it [1:07:01] seems like zoning could help us address that if I used this example before the [1:07:08] house we live in we bought it for $600,000 and we did a remodel [1:07:14] um but that lot is wide enough where it could have had two or three town homes on it and each one of them could have [1:07:21] had a backyard uh but our zone doesn't zoning doesn't [1:07:26] allow us to do those kinds of creative things Now that wouldn't have [1:07:32] those would have maybe have been single family town homes or something like that [1:07:38] or duplex trike or a duplex Yeah Yeah Yeah Um and so that's why I think about [1:07:44] what's within our control that could help us bring more products to market to [1:07:53] serve the demographics that member Jackson just described But we can't I [1:07:59] don't think we could do it the other way and say "Well you don't make enough money to be in Edina so you're going to [1:08:05] live in St Louis Park." Like we've gotten emails from people that say that [1:08:10] If you can't afford to live here you can go to Hopkins Okay you could [1:08:16] However we should have some options [1:08:24] Yeah Um I want to thank both [1:08:30] Commissioner Jackson and Pierce for what they just said and I want to focus on um Jackson's point about the middle Okay [1:08:38] And I also um want to say that the tools that are in our toolbox are beginning to [1:08:44] look pretty minimal and kind of rusty And we and I know this was said at last [1:08:53] the last meeting we had but you look at what Minnetonka is doing and they [1:08:59] presented at the February meeting um that was that breakfast meeting that [1:09:05] I went to and they are getting 10 new town homes and they're subsidizing it at [1:09:14] 79,426 per unit That's really a good bang for their buck [1:09:21] That's like less than $80,000 municipal subsidy And we look at [1:09:27] what we're subsidizing for apartments in large [1:09:33] multif family And I think part of what we need to get is an understanding of [1:09:39] what what we get for our investment Okay And what Minnotonka has that we don't [1:09:45] have is they have a robust um financial kind of support from the community and [1:09:54] um I don't know if there's any and we can't do that but I know there's a lot [1:10:00] of interest from the community in affordable housing There needs to be people who are going to fund raise as [1:10:06] well so that we have a partner with money and it's not just on the back of the taxpayers Um I hear what [1:10:14] Commissioner Jackson is saying about single family homes I do know though like one beautiful really gorgeous [1:10:22] well-maintained hardwood floors the whole nine yards Rambler really well-built near Pamela Park sold for [1:10:32] $477,000 Okay And so and it was torn down and now there's this massive new [1:10:38] home that is going up there And I do think um with the market the way it is [1:10:46] and also with people you know selling their homes sometimes they sell them [1:10:51] really quickly cuz they suddenly have to move out Okay And I do know I have a neighbor who says "I do not want our [1:10:58] house to be a tear down and I want to make sure that doesn't happen." And I'm [1:11:03] wondering you know that could definitely Well we don't know But the thing is it [1:11:09] can't just be the city of Edina It needs to be what are who are our other partners so that we can better help [1:11:16] people who are in their homes who would like to see their homes stay because you get an emotional attachment to it be [1:11:23] able maybe they can reach out to the city of Edina but maybe there's other organizations as well who can help with [1:11:29] that process and also help you know because the amount of energy that needs [1:11:34] to go into identifying those places and what might sell it reaching out to those people I think is not necessar [1:11:41] necessarily a resource that we have um consistently resources right there Yeah [1:11:47] And she doesn't have to provide the money Julie She has connections as well Okay This house was torn down I mean I'm [1:11:54] just I'm saying we could have more resources go toward it But I think we start with Stephanie and then let her [1:12:00] come to us and say we don't have resources we need But she's an incredible resource So if somebody wants [1:12:05] their to sell their home for preservation she's the one to start with and then she would find Habitat for [1:12:11] Humanity or there's also limits on that program a little bit though because um [1:12:17] there are those people but there's also people who suddenly sell and getting [1:12:22] that house before the developer gets it is tricky Okay And so I hear it's it's [1:12:29] continues to happen that houses do sell at prices that are more affordable and [1:12:34] they get torn down Yes Okay And that's one of those things that we at the beginning we have no control over Right [1:12:40] But I think we could have if maybe there's another organization out there that could help us try But that's why we [1:12:47] talked to Stephanie because she knows everybody in the affordable housing She's incredible resource She's so well [1:12:52] connected That's why she's here I mean when we hired her we're like "Oh my gosh Stephanie's been working in this for 20 [1:12:58] years I can make up numbers." And more than that and and and so she has a network It doesn't necessarily have to [1:13:06] be the city of Edina that solves it but she's got a network I can't even begin to imagine when it comes I think the [1:13:12] complexity with this though is those programs are working on a wider scale [1:13:18] Yeah It's more expensive for them to do that work in Edina Okay So how do we try [1:13:25] to That's a really good point and that helps to explain why these [1:13:31] $477,000 beautiful homes keep disappearing and we can't influence what [1:13:36] the homeowner wants to do with their home right but the homeowner we can't we can't we definitely can't [1:13:42] But I'm just saying and and you can all say that's a ridiculous idea We can't do anything about it But I think there is [1:13:48] room for slowing down tearowns if we can figure out and I don't know if [1:13:56] it's affordable housing advocates who might be interested in trying to [1:14:01] uh getting but I mean just seeing this was so frustrating because it would have [1:14:07] been perfect and it was also on a road where you it was between two roads It could have been a perfect ADU setup [1:14:14] because you've got a a road front and a road in the back You know it was just perfect So you know [1:14:22] there's that Hey what are you saying [1:14:30] i'm hearing a lot of like where are constraints are and it's making me kind of think [1:14:37] like where does that open the door for differently [1:14:42] innovative solutions right like if we're talking about and I I hear what member [1:14:48] Pierce here saying of like no I can't go and tell one specific person you need to live in Edina but when we think about [1:14:55] teachers there's I don't actually know like hundreds of teachers right that [1:15:01] that work in Edina they don't all live here and I see [1:15:07] on the like Edina mom's group of hey my my son's daughter's teacher wants to [1:15:13] move to Edina does anyone know of anything right there there is that network but if we can't control that a [1:15:21] house has to be sold to a teacher are there other mechanisms that we could put into place of if you're a teacher who [1:15:28] works in edina you get a incentive or something like that I don't know the [1:15:34] answers but it it makes me think more outside of the box of how we constrain [1:15:41] or what we the constraints are that we have to play with and are there other options that we [1:15:47] could create that still get towards that same goal which is why I think it is valuable to understand like what is [1:15:53] success to us Um because this is daunting when we look It is so expensive [1:16:01] And when we think about the $477,000 house like I don't know how we [1:16:07] prevent that unless we're coming up with new innovative crazy ideas that that [1:16:13] might move the needle but I don't have all those ideas And so that's where my mind is kind of going just like are [1:16:19] there incentive programs or are there different things that we can do that's less of just building net new stock Um [1:16:27] one of them that I also kind of I sometimes harp on right because of my like thing about parking but it's like [1:16:33] if you created more dense no parking housing how does that also then [1:16:42] combat some of the push back we get on some development of it's going to increase all the traffic and and some of [1:16:48] those concerns And there are different levers that you can pull within a development There could be ways that we [1:16:56] can build up that benefit and that story in a more comprehensive way [1:17:08] So I think you one of the things I think you were trying to accomplish here was you wanted to find out what was [1:17:13] important to this council from a retention attraction strategy related to [1:17:21] health who we want to try to keep here an opportunity to stay here if they [1:17:27] want to some of the things that and then who do we want to make sure that we try [1:17:34] to attract or like James is saying you know what products do we need in place [1:17:40] to be able to provide attractions and then it seems to me [1:17:46] that for me personally you get to the point what could we do on our own where [1:17:52] we're we're doing what we want to do in terms of these issues around attention [1:17:58] retention and attraction That's important to our town [1:18:03] as opposed to being influenced by outside money from the state or the [1:18:09] federal government saying here's what you have to do if you want our [1:18:15] money Now there may be some circumstances where we think yeah that's [1:18:21] okay We want to do some of these things that would involve state or federal money but we haven't we haven't we [1:18:28] haven't drilled down that deep yet So [1:18:35] um who who you know it comes back to what do we think it's important to be [1:18:40] thinking about here on these issues and so you you're trying to get more detail still think [1:18:47] it's a little hazy but probably so you know commissioner Pierce came to [1:18:55] us with a whole package of ideas about funding and the thing was we needed to [1:19:02] have this conversation first before we went out to raise money in whatever way But I think that that that what what you [1:19:10] just said goes back to all the work that he did on different funding sources So [1:19:15] once we figure out what we as an entity want to focus [1:19:20] on then we have to go back and revisit the work that group um to say what are [1:19:27] the funding options that we you know whether we provide seed money and then [1:19:32] fund raise off of that you know or um you know what kind of uh what [1:19:40] flexibility do we have in our funding that's not reliant on these formulas [1:19:45] that we've been seeing the private developers coming to us with money from the state and federal or state and met [1:19:51] council and county formulas So then that goes back to you know the full circle back to where we started this [1:19:57] conversation and and there was a tremendous amount of good work but I was [1:20:03] tripped up because we hadn't had this conversation yet and we were just following what um outside funders were [1:20:12] you know focusing on and now we have an adinaentric focus on where we want our housing to go Then we need to revisit [1:20:19] the funding options I think is what you're saying what I want to pick from what you're saying Yeah And I would just [1:20:26] add that that circle on slide three or whatever slide that was that showed what [1:20:32] was in our control That's really important Right I think we look at all of those options Yes Which includes [1:20:40] funding Yeah To focus on whatever products that we need Yeah And I do [1:20:46] think that this dot exercise as somebody said it I mean it is clear we're missing [1:20:53] middle right there's some synergy around what we are kind of thinking loosely [1:21:00] affordable means right from a home value perspective you can imply a [1:21:09] lot of that from this exercise I think we just have to go the next step to then [1:21:15] say all right with what's in our control how can we make progress against this [1:21:22] The other thing we had done is we talked to a realtor to ask them the [1:21:30] question based on what they're hearing in our marketplace What's missing and [1:21:36] one of the products this one particular um real estate agent said was [1:21:42] the I'm going to probably say this wrong but it was a flat for seniors sing [1:21:50] single floor living or something like that Um was one of the products that was [1:21:56] was missing with no basement right and then you know maybe two [1:22:01] bedrooms right that kind of a thing was missing Now I don't know what that cost [1:22:07] to do today but we don't have that product for seniors in our marketplace [1:22:12] And there might be some other things some other insights they may have on what products we need [1:22:21] I think these housing goals that the Met Council's established for every community that are non-binding are [1:22:27] interesting to look at but you kind of have to take a skeptical [1:22:33] view of it because Our state's losing population but they're telling us there's going to be 400,000 500,000 more [1:22:40] people here by 2050 And we're planning accordingly And it it kind of pushes us [1:22:48] to you know at least for my thinking of what do we want to do that we think is important to do in our town around this [1:22:55] issue of creating housing affordability because that that issue is there regardless of whether we're growing or [1:23:00] shrinking in the state the existing population has some challenges around housing affordability a global problem [1:23:07] really both in production and affordability So [1:23:12] um the other thing we really haven't talked about is we've we've had some successes now in in affordable housing [1:23:20] where we never before we had an affordable housing policy with just the bully pulp but we got a few here a few there And then with this policy we've [1:23:27] had in place we've had tremendous increase in the number of affordable units But we really haven't even [1:23:33] dissected and probably would require your help Is are we better off thinking about [1:23:39] putting the affordable units in a market rate building at a percentage or uh are the standalone [1:23:46] buildings that are all affordable uh a better way to go or or is the way [1:23:52] we've been doing it as a combination okay i I don't know the answer to that [1:23:58] Um but you know you can meet production goals faster if you've got a dedicated [1:24:04] building but I'm not sure it's the best situation for anybody living either It seems to me that integrating people that [1:24:12] have housing affordability challenges into a market rate building is where they're just in there like everybody [1:24:17] else is a better just at least theoretically a better situation But [1:24:23] with that one thing I'm frustrated I feel like I don't have enough information and it would be really helpful to know what the rent [1:24:30] differential is for people in market rate buildings that are getting us you [1:24:36] know they are at a lower rent versus what somebody else would pay for that [1:24:41] 650 foot unit because I I have no idea what that differential is I think it's [1:24:47] different for every building too It probably is but it'd be nice to know that I think it'd be a good piece of [1:24:54] information to have Okay I'm gonna close the conversation [1:24:59] because we're getting near our time Um you guys did great Uh this wasn't easy Like we knew it [1:25:06] wasn't going to be easy We didn't ask you to talk about an easy topic You weren't We didn't prepare you for [1:25:11] anything Um you didn't have all the answers We didn't have the answers The idea for today was not about just saying [1:25:18] it It was also about seeing it Right So when you do these strategies it's about putting stuff down so everyone can [1:25:24] visually see how other people are feeling or how they're expressing the things that are kind of going on for them as well I think Carolyn um and uh [1:25:33] Chair Hofflin you also talked a little bit about the what's next That really is what's next right this was just we [1:25:39] needed some area to focus I heard you James and we do agree everyone is important and we don't necessarily want [1:25:46] to take anything off the table is what I heard from you However there might be some things that we can focus on And [1:25:51] we're not starting from scratch As you mentioned there are a few things that we talked about at session one that have [1:25:58] some like tangible um actionable items that might help us to take those pull [1:26:03] those out extract them to figure out how do they get us to some of that um that success that you were helping us to find [1:26:10] um for you Um so that is part two I would say ongoing or ongoing So thank [1:26:18] you for today Appreciate all your time and commitment to this topic Okay we stand a journ All right