[0:00] uh welcome everybody for this work session this uh Thursday morning it is already March 13 [0:06] 2025 uh we recording MJ are you in the charge of the recording the recording has started all right thanks Stephanie [0:14] uh very good let's uh whoever is calling the rooll please call the [0:20] rooll commissioner agno here commissioner rer here commissioner [0:26] Jackson here commissioner Pierce here chair hland here um we're all here this [0:33] is thank you this is of course the uh work session for the h and it is as I said earlier uh March 13th 2025 and [0:40] about 7:34 in the morning and uh we've got a singular beating topic this morning and continue some conversations [0:48] we've been having around housing and its production and affordability and we've got a slate of [0:55] uh capable staff people with us today to talk about this issue and guide us we're [1:00] going to be guided too I think by what happens at the legislature and uh that's a work in progress and I don't know if [1:07] any of you are watching some of the proposed legislation but um we're watching it carefully for all all of us [1:13] and all the other mlc cities through our lobbyist at mlc so we'll be reporting [1:19] out on that but getting his demographic backgrounding information will be important for that conversation as well so uh manager Neil do you want to turn [1:26] it to Stephanie hackinson start right with our kind of this is a continuation of of a series of work sessions that [1:34] we'd like to talk about housing and make sure make sure we have as staff people [1:40] and we're interacting with state legislators to make make sure we understand what your Collective [1:46] positions are on on housing Stephanie yes so thank you um so [1:52] as you recall uh last month we talked about State um City policies and plans [1:58] that help form and guide staff um in what we bring forward with [2:04] regards to affordable housing and so today it's a continuation and we're T um [2:10] focusing on housing statistics that are currently in place and City demographics [2:15] as they are with most recent surveys um we have a lot of slides so like like [2:21] last work session My Hope Is that we can get through the slides and circle back with um questions and discussion just so [2:29] we can get through them cuz they're all different um and time is [2:36] limited so we have presenters um Marissa is here [2:41] um to take place of Thomas Brooks temporarily um he's out ill today so uh [2:47] we do have a substitution but this is a collaborative effort there are a lot of departments and staff and different [2:52] departments that have come together to put together um last presentation as well as this presentation [3:00] why we are here to remind you is in the 2024 2025 budget work plan under livable [3:06] City we have advanced progress to affordable housing goals including increasing housing options and [3:12] developing a long-term growth strategy so that is one of the reasons we are here this has been a discussion for a [3:18] while um and just getting some direction in how you want to go to fulfill this um [3:24] work plan item the goal for today is how is a city [3:32] changing who are we serving how does a current housing inventory serve the [3:37] current population who do we want to retain and who do we want to attract [3:42] what type of housing does the city want to support in light of all this [3:49] information so some grounding definitions as when we were doing um practice runs with this staff wasn't [3:56] always on the same page with what different things meant so we thought we better at least have some definitions [4:01] affordable housing is Technically when you don't spend more than 30% of your income on your housing costs when we [4:08] talk about affordable housing with a capital a um we typically mean um rental [4:14] housing that serves households with incomes at 60% of area median income and [4:20] home ownership in order to count towards met Council goals is 80% of area area [4:26] Medan income however some cities have um decided that that is a challenge with [4:31] their a um ownership model and they will go up to 115% of very median income or [4:39] sometimes 120 and still because that would be considered affordable in their communities but rental is pretty [4:45] standard at 60% and in order to become was that just a that's a typo then isn't it $60 it means oh that is I thought I [4:52] fixed that typo I meant 60% of a mean income I apologize I thought I'd fixed that but I H didn't hit save [5:00] um tear down a rebuild those are residential Redevelopment this means when a home is demolished down to the [5:06] foundation and a new home is taking its place so when we talk about tear Downs [5:12] it's not a large remodel it is a replacement home and housing tenure [5:18] means the type of ownership whether it's rental or ownership that's the housing [5:25] tenure so who lives in Nina and I'm going to pass this on to Marissa um so I'm going to walk through some [5:31] demographic data pulled from the Census or the American Community survey so first we're going to talk a little bit [5:36] about just the age of folks who live in Edina so on the graph here green bars [5:41] represent Edina the dark gray represents henpen County comparing based on occupied housing the age breakdown uh [5:49] between the two communities so ad compared to henen County as a whole the takeway here is that ad SK is older in [5:56] terms of occupied housing compared to henpen County as a whole across the the entire [6:01] County on the next slide um it's looking at overall so regardless renter owner [6:07] occupied housing it's Edina as a whole and it's the same takeaway uh we tend to skew older here in Edina for our H ID [6:15] residents compared to hanpen County as a whole I'm going to add a clarifi clarification the other this one too is [6:23] since it's occupied it tends to be the um household [6:28] um head of house household so that's why under 35 and under it's so low in Idina [6:35] where on this slide it's much higher because this is overall population [6:40] overall sorry clarification could you explain that one more time please so [6:45] this one is when you do a survey and who is the home the head of household so [6:51] this one's more head of household and this is overall population so a child would not be ahead of [6:58] household which is why they skew low and so the 35 and under is the lower [7:03] percentage because um a teenager tends not be head of household this one is [7:09] population overall so a CH you have a much higher child number because their [7:17] residents of udina and this is all housing this is all [7:24] housing so why did you use henan County as a comparative as opposed to some of the Cities that are more like [7:31] us uh we use hennipin County as a comparison in part because we are within the county and how do we rate um just [7:39] within our larger ecosystem and it was the direction I was [7:47] given okay if we wanted to compare I is the [7:53] data out there to compare ourselves to Eden Prairie or to minaka or to Woodbury we could we could do that this is census [7:59] data and American Community survey and and and and truth be told there's a lot [8:05] of data out there and we are trying to narrow it down I mean this is already 38 slides and so we are trying [8:12] to provide tastes and with the full understanding that we can go back and do [8:19] much deeper Dives on any one of these and do comparisons on any one of these but wanted to give a high level snapshot [8:29] so this it' be kind of interesting to think or look at you know how do we compare to someone like that's uh you [8:35] still got a lot of Green Field like Prior Lake for uh to see what their TR what what [8:41] their age brackets look like compared to ours or um pmth yeah Plymouth is is [8:48] bigger maple girls bigger but still those might be interesting comparisons [8:55] okay and Plymouth and Maple Grove would be within the county um for were prior [9:00] in a different County but yeah I like the point you're getting at though it's more apples to apples yeah yeah yeah I [9:07] mean you think about H County being dominated by Minneapolis and I don't from a population standpoint it just it [9:14] just made me wonder I looked at this last night okay how because we don't compete [9:21] with the county we compete with other towns for people a good subset would be the mlc [9:27] cities think you could do that too already an existing [9:32] list they might have it as an existing [9:38] graph okay so looking um again at occupied housing type um so this is showing data of housing T here as [9:45] Stephanie mentioned that means owner or renter housing and broken up by age brackets and so you can see on here [9:51] between the ages of 55 and 75 years old predominantly own their homes with our [9:56] largest renters being 85 years and older that's that red bar um and then when we look at under 35y olds speaking to the [10:03] changing housing needs um and phases of Life they're also primarily renter um so you can see our largest renter [10:09] populations are kind of skewed towards that younger and older U with our majority of our owners being 55 to 75 [10:16] age bracket is that including is that the head of household or is that [10:21] including children or what is that this is the occupied tenure so it tends to be [10:27] the um head of household data MH okay so [10:32] to make sure I'm reading this right rough swag there's not percentages overall total but should I read this is [10:39] there's almost half it kind of looks like from a color perspective of the ownership and [10:46] half of those that live in are renters it's within each age bracket so it would [10:53] not be able to since we sway older you know so if you layer that data on top of [10:59] this it's not quite like that so within each age bracket this is 100% okay so of [11:05] all 35 year olds if you take 100% of 30 um under 35 roughly 16% are owners and [11:13] the remainder are renters but that would not include people who were 18 or under [11:18] 18 AG so kids are not no but they but if you you can probably make some [11:25] assumptions that in 85 and older there may not be young children in those households so of childbearing age that [11:33] would be 35 to 55 so if you look at if you want to know where the children are [11:40] they're probably more likely in the 35 to 55y old tranches because those are [11:46] the childbearing family raising ages of head of household so you can make some [11:52] infs but they'd probably be in they they may be more in houses though though they [11:58] are as you can see and that in those age brackets 65 um down to 35 that is predominantly [12:06] in houses um so that and the next SL actually talks about how sorry [12:14] um I don't know what here um so households with children [12:20] um comp comprise about 27% of the population um so you'd be looking at the [12:26] purple uh wedge here shows married families with children and then the orange wedge shows unmarried families [12:32] with children within that household um so about 27% of households include with [12:37] children in them so now kind of switching over to to [12:45] income within our community um so again we're looking at Edina compared to hennipen County families um and the the [12:52] takeaway from the slide is a majority of Edina households bring in above $100,000 with approximately 50% of households [13:00] bringing in $200,000 or more um in terms of that household family income um and just above 20% of households are less [13:06] than $100,000 per year in terms of that income within the the [13:12] household and we don't have any like higher data it's just over 200 and that's that's where the census goes so [13:20] based on this since it's 49% of Adina households make over [13:25] 200,000 that means about 51% of Edina households make less than [13:32] 200,000 here again it'd be really good to have comparisons with other cities and I did find an article from Forbes [13:38] that um provides the 50 richest cities in Minnesota Edina is actually 19 and um [13:46] getting a handle on how the wealth in other places like [13:52] one thing I was very impressed by was just how motanka is moving forward with affordable housing and they do have an [13:59] arm that raises money um so they they have a fundraising aspect to it so it's [14:05] not completely being carried by so much being carried by the city and so they're [14:11] able to really get this Synergy going that is pretty [14:20] powerful so the slide represents uh recent ethnicity in Edina compared again to Hanan County so Edina is on the left [14:27] the left bar uh County on the right bar um and the the takeaway here and so it's [14:32] broken down by census definitions um is the the data we have to work with an [14:38] Community is increasingly uh growing in diversity but what in the from the data presented here uh legs behind henpen [14:44] County within just under 80% of households identifying as white in Idina [14:50] are largest within our community bip community so that be black indigenous people of color um are Asian at almost [14:56] 9% followed by two and more races black and africanamerican and then Hispanic [15:01] and Latino so looking at race as it's [15:09] related to that housing tenure so again owner versus renter occupied again this would be that head of household the [15:14] person who owns holds the mortgage or holds the lease is the is the data we're able to to pull here and so from here [15:21] the the slide um so nearly 80% of white households in Idina are homeowners while nearly 80% of black or African-American [15:28] households are renters and this is our largest racial disparity in terms of housing type so as a reminder 50% of our [15:36] renters are cost burden compared to less than 30% of our owners and this pretty much aligns with [15:43] what's happening at the state the state is one of the has one of the highest racial disparities between with own home [15:51] ownership um especially comparing white and black African-American um we are [15:56] fall behind every other state and Home Ownership includes Condominiums correct [16:04] correct and then um this is a map so the the data that we had shown on the um [16:09] previous slide was just kind of right just aggregated percentage based data um and then working with Anna in the gis [16:15] team wanted to just provide some geographical or spatial context for that conversation um so the the map is [16:22] showing kind of where are those households uh living as defined by uh those census takeaways So based on the [16:28] sensus cus track which is the green outline on the screen each dot represents a different demographic group [16:34] within that census track so the larger representation from the demographic group uh the more dots are presented so [16:40] the more yellow areas we would see is the more um households or areas of our community with more white occupied [16:46] housing versus other communities with different color or in kind of orienting yourself to that Southeast corner of [16:53] Edina we see a lot of different color docks so representing black occupied households Asian Hispanic [16:59] um and so you can see that's kind of where maybe the more diverse parts of our community are in terms of housing [17:08] occupancy so back to me this um is a data heavy slide and what this is trying [17:15] to show is we talk often in area meting income so for a existing four-person [17:23] household what would be a 30% of area Medan income is 37,2 60 for a household [17:30] up to 120 on the other side on the right hand side of 100 up to 100 20% of area [17:37] Medi income that's an income of $149,000 so what can those households [17:44] afford in the scales in between so someone at 30% of area median income a [17:49] household afford at 30% of area median income can afford a rent of [17:55] $931 and they could afford a home at that's $1 [18:00] $1,000 and so our median rent is $757 and this is median overall so this [18:06] includes efficiencies as well as two bedrooms and three bedrooms and we don't have that many three bedrooms or four [18:11] bedrooms so it skews on the smaller side and our median home value is roughly [18:17] 700,000 so 14.2% of edina's population of households of four have incomes at the [18:24] 30% of are median income that means they need in order to live here subsidize [18:30] housing they need Section 8 or they need heavily subsidized housing where the [18:35] rents are around 30% of arean made income or 931 [18:42] um we have 7.2% of households of four that have [18:47] incomes at around between 30 and 50% of are income that means those 7.2% of [18:54] those households to not be housing cost burn can forward a rent that's roughly 1,5 $100 Which is less than our median [19:01] and it's again the median includes efficiencies in one bedrooms and this is households of [19:06] four and home at around 194,000 195,000 and so again they would have to [19:13] be subsidized um Apartments what these so together that is a little over 20% of [19:19] the population of families of households of four we have 14.9% of the households that um make [19:28] over over 80% of area median income and so they can afford homes that are in the [19:34] $400,000 range overall um we [19:41] have 21.6% of four person households cannot afford the median rent 57.1% of [19:48] four-person households cannot afford a median priced home a four-person household would have a household income [19:53] of roughly over 150% of area median income or around $200,000 [19:59] they could afford a medium pric home that if they made that much money and [20:04] 42.9% of four person households can afford that so we have a minority of [20:11] four um four person households in the city that can actually afford something [20:17] greater than the median priced home so do we know Anya what percent of [20:23] occupied homes are occupied by people who are paying more than 30% have that [20:31] side coming up okay know do we know that do you know that for hen County you y [20:38] okay so for seniors and I'd like to say I was made aware of a statistic um that [20:45] nationally um seniors people age 55 and older so we included um is the highest [20:53] growing homeless population are people 55 and older so so in [20:59] Dina um 15% of seniors have incomes that are less than 30% of area median income [21:06] that means the rents they can afford are $746 or home at 73 [21:13] $74,000 so they so um 15% of seniors would qualify for subsidized rental [21:20] housing an additional 19% of seniors qual incomes between 31 and 50% of area [21:27] meeting income so again they would qualify for a subsidized um [21:34] our one bedroom affordable apartments that are subsidized tax credit is this [21:40] rental range and a $142,000 home additional 6 6% of seniors [21:48] have incomes below 60% so if you add those numbers up we have a pretty [21:54] significant population of seniors that make under 60% of area median income [21:59] okay question because I would be one of those since I'm married to a bus driver and I'm raking in a little over 12 Grand [22:06] a year as a city council person does this take into account what one's actual [22:14] mortgage burden is because there's a lot of people who don't who have paid off [22:19] their mortgage uh this is income this does not have to do with expenses it does not have to do with medical [22:24] expenses or assets so it's it's hard to [22:29] meeting can I call you you're right this is income but when we do affordable [22:35] housing we do income off of assets to qualify for affordable housing you have to consider assets but it doesn't with [22:41] the CH with the family ones it doesn't include daycare costs or educational costs or anything so it does not include [22:46] expenses it is income coming in right I'm just thinking because you know for [22:51] us to keep that in mind because it is part of the whole puzzle and really [22:57] trying to figure things out and that then that is exactly the purpose of this is what what can people [23:02] afford they as household expenses so according to Census Data 71% [23:10] of seniors and 51% of H households of childbearing Ages have household incomes of less than [23:17] $150,000 Which is less than what is needed to buy a home a medium priced home 26% of seniors have incomes of less [23:24] than $50,000 and qualify for affordable rental options [23:32] and this has more general information because um Minnesota Housing Partnership has looked more regionally um and more [23:40] regionally 65% of seniors are housing cost burdened and so I you know the [23:46] calls I get are from Seniors and they are looking where they have to leave the city um to try to find affordable [23:52] housing options when they can no longer live in their homes cuz a lot of folks have homes that are paid off um um and [23:58] so they're staying in their homes because they can't afford rents but some don't have the capacity to live in their [24:04] homes anymore we have re have money to get lifts elevators that go up stairways and other ways to make their homes [24:10] handicap accessible but there are limitations to what even that can do so seniors do look outside the city to move [24:18] but U metrowide 65% of seniors are housing cost bur so it's hard for them [24:24] to find options outside of Edina that is even you close to [24:31] Edina so here is renters in Edina compared to hennipen County 50% of [24:38] renters are housing cost burdened and in the county 46% of renters are so this is [24:43] not just an Edina problem this is a state problem and owners 21% of owners in [24:51] Edina are housing cost burden and 29% of owners in henpen County so I this is why [24:58] you know the state is looking at how to come up with some solutions and I will pass this over [25:06] Addison yeah so this slide shows us people who work in Edo where are they commuting from these are the top 10 [25:12] cities of where they're coming from so you can see people who live in edana [25:17] only make up about 6.7% of the people who work here um Minneapolis has the most they're only at [25:23] 14 about 14% um all of those cities listed only make up about half and then [25:29] the other half are other cities so this kind of I think shows us that people are really pretty spread out in where [25:35] they're coming to be D from uh this slide just shows some of [25:41] the types of jobs that might struggle to afford housing any Dina um without being cost burdened so even on the on the high [25:48] end there at a salary of about $50,000 um the most you could afford in [25:53] rent without being housing cost burden would be 1,250 a month [26:02] so a lot of the workers a lot of the jobs to takeway is a lot of jobs that offers people have to live elsewhere to [26:10] work here that um the housing here um costs exceed what the workers that work [26:16] here can pay and that's for a single occupant this is for a single occupant and this [26:23] is also assuming full-time in each of these positions so this is annualized based on full-time salary [26:29] and retail sale you know some of them people are having more than one [26:37] job so what's our housing situation we know who lives here so what's the housing that we have to offer the people [26:44] that live here you've seen the slide before I think um commissioner Pierce [26:49] she may have asked for this to be made um since 2014 the housing the Top Line the black [26:57] line at the top top our homes valued between 300 and [27:04] $499,000 since 2014 and especially since 2021 those have severely dropped off the [27:11] amount the number of Homes at that value which is what we are talking about where the 50% of the folks can afford to buy [27:19] um though the number of those have dropped off significantly homes valued at under [27:26] $300,000 in 2023 it was down to like 11 houses we don't know if they exist um in [27:33] today's numbers this is the slide ends in 2023 the assumption is those houses are gone that they increased in value or [27:40] they have been removed conversely the homes that are valued at over a million the red line [27:48] started out in 2014 which you know there's inflation um they were was about [27:53] 8% of the homes in the city were valued at over a million dollars and in [27:59] 2023 they are about 25% of the homes so we're our housing stock for homes less [28:07] than um 500,000 and even 700,000 um well 500,000 is decreasing [28:15] homes greater than 700,000 are [28:20] increasing the median value of a home in 2020 was [28:25] 551 th000 and the salary needed to and this is there are a lot of assumptions [28:31] here we don't know people's credit scores we don't know their expenses so but generally speaking [28:39] um with 20% down your salary would need to be 140,000 in 2020 to afford a medium [28:46] priced home it's projected that in 2030 your median salary would need to be 258,000 to um afford a median priced [28:55] home so the housing cost are increasing faster than most people's [29:04] salaries this is to show scale it's Consumer Price Index yes and on that [29:09] slide this one the green no no no you were right there so [29:15] the median home value in 2030 is projected to be a million2 a the median [29:21] correct this is not the maximum and we have some more um granulated data coming up on this [29:28] even faster than we had thought so this shows scale between a rental costs and [29:34] income um using Consumer Price Index and the black line on top is how much rent [29:41] is increasing over time and the green line at the bottom shows what incomes [29:46] the change in incomes over time so rents are even far outpacing incomes um which [29:55] is leading to one of the um contributors to the fact that the median um age of a firsttime home buyer [30:03] in Minnesota is now 38 because it takes a lot longer to save for that 20% homes [30:10] are more expensive and rent is higher so to save for that 20% down it's taking [30:15] significantly longer um so this is a slide actually we [30:22] showed you I think when we were having the discussion about adus just to talk about kind of the lack of housing variety that the overwhelming majority [30:29] of our housing stock is in single family homes or large multif family buildings [30:34] the the missing middle there is about 12% so what we think of like duplexes um Town Homes everything up to [30:42] like small multif family buildings up to 19 units is about 12% of our housing [30:49] staff this is more granulated deal yeah so we've talked a lot about how the [30:55] median home price in Edina is $700,000 but if you we can calculate [31:02] that on a neighborhood by neighborhood basis um so that's what we've done here [31:08] um the like tannish brown colors are homes that fall below that 700,000 for [31:14] the median of the neighborhood and the green is where that's above so we do have several neighborhoods where the [31:20] median home single family home is less than $700,000 but we also have nine [31:27] neighbor neighborhoods where the median family single family home is already [31:32] over a million dollar um and then in addition to that [31:40] uh the where are these teardown rebuilds occurring in some of these same [31:47] neighborhoods where the median home value is less than [31:52] 700,000 um so this just kind of shows where those are occurring within the city the average cost of the single [32:01] family home that was purchased to tear down um in 2023 was [32:07] $613,000 so that's really not far off from that median um and then the average [32:12] value of the home after the rebuild is over $2 million so you're taking that [32:20] um the homes that are more affordable and replacing them with things that are out [32:26] of Out Of Reach for a lot of people and this shows like the increase in the in [32:32] the median is not just because home values are appreciating over time it's [32:38] also because they are just being replaced by more expensive homes I have a question about this data so in our and [32:45] it's not everyone but in some of our Friday reports we have I think data on the permits and the average price but I [32:54] remember in like one of the more recent ones I think the average was closer to a million per permit how does that compare [33:02] to this data that might be the value that like the applicant puts on the building permit so there's a value that [33:07] they put when to con that's the value that's the value like to construct the house that doesn't include the land it [33:13] doesn't mean that that's what it would sell for okay so they they put they give us that value and then our assessors [33:19] value it at what it really is in the market CU I was always surprised by that data when it was like a million dollars average I like I didn't think we had [33:25] very many like new houses selling for a million dollars as less as a million [33:31] dollars yeah as little yeah so with with uh some of these slides like I think the [33:37] last three for sure um we have to [33:42] consider doing more of a mashup so right now you're showing us these median [33:49] values but the previous slides you talked about what people could actually [33:54] afford and I think you somehow we got to bring those two pieces together to tell [34:00] the full story of here I agree and we're doing it piece so that's one reason we [34:07] like even these two slides if you overlay them you know look where the brown is um Chowan and St hour and then [34:16] look where the dots are yeah so a lot of these slides do require tearing apart a [34:22] booklet and laying them side by side to um with the median priced homes in the [34:27] you know with a family of four yeah um [34:33] it's 490 all right so where then can [34:38] that family four live right and when how many homes are remaining interesting to [34:44] do a little bit more of a match up there um so you're spot on on that's exactly [34:50] what I'm saying yep cuz this looks like we're saying well these are the neighborhoods people can afford to live in and that's not what we're actually [34:57] saying and it's one of the reasons we have had some programs to preserve some of those single family homes [35:03] um and here's another one to mash up so additionally this is um looking at two [35:10] different factors one is the percent of seniors and then the percent of [35:16] households in poverty in Idina so uh the dark blue is where there's both a high [35:23] percentage of household in in poverty and a high percentage of seniors um the [35:30] pink is where there's just high percentage of poverty and then blue would be where there's just a high percentage of seniors so there are some [35:37] neighborhoods where we're seeing these like two things overlap so that's where some people might be struggling with [35:43] housing an or Stephanie I think it's also worth noting too that some of these maps are are census trct and some of [35:50] them are neighborhoods right um right yes this is by census track unfortunately our neighborhoods [35:57] and our tracks don't really [36:02] align um and then this is just looking at if you're looking at the taxes that [36:08] um resident or residential taxes so that would be both multif family and single [36:14] family um even though single family makes up uh like 93% of the land area of [36:23] residential uses multif family is still bringing in about 20% so they're uh that [36:31] makes sense right because usually multif family builds up rather than out you're [36:36] still getting a lot of tax value out of a multif family um or you're getting Yeah by area you're [36:45] getting more taxes so here are some other [36:50] contributing factors yeah so this um actually gives you a sense of the the [36:56] national Trends in household type this is for the for the whole us kind of the key takeaways from this slide are that [37:03] um married couples with children in 1960 used to make up 44% of all households [37:08] and today it's only 19% whereas single person households have more than doubled [37:13] going from 13% to 28% of all households um I also think you know non-f family [37:19] households that that is also more than doubled going from 15 to 35% and the state demographer has said [37:26] that min soda as no surprise to anyone is getting [37:33] older um so the last two slides is information um that I pulled from some surveys uh you'll be familiar with both [37:39] of these um the first one is from the Hazel Reinhardt study um that the school did for projections of enrollment in [37:46] 2022 2022 yep um they use a housing unit method um which is a way to project [37:52] enrollment but it's not the only factor of course and most information on here is what you would speculate right that [37:59] housing types bring different numbers of school age um single family homes have the most kids um town homes have fewer [38:05] and apartments have the fewest kids um newer single family homes um tend to attract families with kids so they would [38:11] be um potentially kids enrolled in the school and that older single family homes see fewer kids um when single [38:18] family homes are resold um student numbers can change as well cuz younger families could increase the enrollment [38:25] in older homes usually there are fewer kids um home prices impact the number of school age mid to high price homes tend [38:31] to have more kids um lower price often have fewer school age because you can imagine who's living in them and seniors [38:37] so this is pretty obvious and age restricted housing um won't add students to the schools um I should mention though as [38:44] part of that study which you probably already saw um a large portion of the study talks about how a lot of our school age kids though in the district [38:51] are actually opting um to go to other options than the actual School District itself so that's another Factor [38:58] um the last slide is about the quality of life survey that was conducted in 2023 you're all familiar with this that [39:04] we do this every um two years and generally um what we could glean about [39:09] affordable housing is that the majority respondents felt there was somewhat too little or twoo little um housing um [39:15] options for singles and families um the lowest rate of community characteristic was around availability of affordable [39:22] housing and a variety we talked about the variety of housing options and that that two-thirds of the respondents said it was um important essential or very [39:29] important for the city to um preserve some of those homes as [39:34] well so that's the end pretty much of uh the presentation we're [39:41] next um we want there's time for discussion but what we're hoping is that [39:47] in our next meeting to really dive into what type of housing based on policies and plans and based on demographic [39:54] information what type of housing do you all feel um we should focus on um as staff for [40:01] our ener our time energy money and resources um what is the direction of [40:07] future housing in the city so we're done on our end of the [40:16] table you go back to I think it's slide 35 which is that school related one of Hazel Reinhardt there you go mean it it [40:24] almost makes you think that it's argu I guess it's arguable that if you look at [40:30] the right hand lower corner box that we've really been fortunate [40:35] that our town has been we've had this tear down rebuild activity if most of [40:41] the kids are in single family homes and there are more kids in the more high- priced [40:49] homes we're talking about creating more affordability but where we're finding the kids is in the high priced homes the [40:55] higher priced the home the more the kids the more kids there are in the home [41:00] so I think there's the question of where are those kids going to school are they going to the ad Public Schools are they [41:06] going to BR Blake and um benel are they going to Catholic schools and there I [41:13] think the previous study that she did did talk a little bit about where um [41:18] children were going to school based on income but I don't believe this last study mentions it so do we have any [41:24] school population data that show the enrollment Trends with residents versus open enrollment we have 20% of the um [41:32] Edina Public Schools is open enrolled and how does that what does that Trend look like over time over the [41:38] last 10 years andison do you have a better idea of that than I do I believe it's increased yeah I think it's increased as [41:44] well I think it probably is an increase and so which I mean you could [41:51] extrapolate without the data that as the homes are becoming more expensive and we're increasing our open in [41:59] enrollment where are those children [42:05] going because you can make an assumption that if you're living in a more expensive home you might have higher income that could afford to send your [42:11] kid to a different school yeah in a way it's anomalous was that what you'd think you know yeah yeah I I do think like [42:20] we're making a bunch of assumptions yeah here and so um I I am not asking for more data so [42:30] I'm don't take this as go get more data [42:35] um but to be honest I don't know that we have a [42:40] problem that we can actually solve and so like we all care about [42:48] this but I don't know if we can actually solve it and so here's what I mean I'll give you two data [42:55] points um when you're showing the housing [43:01] stock do we have enough available housing stock to and I'm totally making [43:07] this up do a tear down and build Town Homes like how much can we actually [43:15] accomplish with what we have and I'm not I'm not asking you to answer that question today I'm just trying to let [43:20] you understand what's in my head so we look at all of our Parcels I think I asked for this before out of everything [43:28] that we have like what's reasonable for us to be able to um build homes that are [43:37] at or below the median like I think we have to be uh realistic and looking at [43:43] things like that um so that's one the second data point when we looked at this [43:50] work um last year I don't know how much time we spent trying to come up with [43:57] another model for this um um a model where we could um have an a sustainable [44:05] fund to then go build housing um well throughout that whole [44:12] thing like that the community was in such an uproar over six of 13 ideas right that I assume [44:24] we were all getting emails I had conversations with with residents saying [44:30] well this is a place you're supposed to work to attain and if you can't afford [44:35] to live here and there's [Music] Hopkins Richfield right literally that's [44:42] what people were saying um and so that led me to [44:49] wonder is our community actually behind this or not and so that's the second data point [44:56] this the data that we're looking at says we have a problem right so that's part [45:02] of it the other part of the data has to show what's reasonable for us as a [45:10] community um as a goal to go after versus us saying well we want this many [45:17] homes or that many homes um and then the third data point to member R's Point [45:25] earlier we don't talk about when we talk about house burden we [45:31] don't talk about the issue she raised right you're you own your home or maybe [45:37] you own 70% of it or whatever we also don't talk about the other side of that [45:43] people that are living in $2 million homes and can't really afford to be in a $2 million home either and so we take [45:50] both of those things out of it um but somehow I think we have [45:55] to lean into and I don't like saying this but [46:02] I'm not convinced that our community largely I think they care about it but I don't know that our community really [46:08] wants to do the tough things to solve it and I don't know how to tease that [46:15] tease that out but if we can there's no way we're going to be able to go to our community and say hey can you fund help [46:22] us fund this because the slide that show median income [46:27] and the slide all you should need is that slide and then the slide that says [46:33] 44,000 people driving Thea a day right to work here um we don't we shouldn't [46:41] need 38 slides to convince people that to articulate this is a [46:48] challenge I agree with so much of what member Pierce just [46:54] said but one thing um when we heard from so many residents [47:01] and a lot of them were opposed to the deed tax and I think [47:07] any uh thing that we do we need to acknowledge is this something that is a [47:14] regressive tax and who is going to get hit hardest with this because the people [47:19] who I am communicating with um our people who are in those categories of [47:27] who you know wouldn't it be great if they could be here they are here but as [47:33] property taxes are rising and other things are rising it's harder and harder for them to stay and so um moving [47:41] forward with an affordable housing agenda I think we need to look at how do [47:48] we do that in a way that is not disruptive and one thing that I kept [47:53] thinking about and I've talked about this before is you know we have [47:59] this policy that if your lot is 9,000 square feet or you know Le less that 30% [48:08] of it can be built upon and I think um if we changed it so it was 25% like the [48:14] larger lots that would require smaller houses to be built and it's possible [48:19] they could be more affordable and you know we have gotten away from that I just got this book um found it anyway [48:28] it's about to be donated it was the Susan susanka you know the not so big house and it's you know beautiful [48:34] architecture on small lots and if we would move more in that direction the [48:40] other thing is when you look at where are all the small little lots a lot of them are in parts of Edina where we do [48:47] have um more affordability and we also have more diversity and so that is [48:54] something that would help sort of protect people who are there and I remember door knocking and you know [48:59] talking with the head of the household um and they had come from Tibet and they were right next to um 70th and um Valley [49:10] View and it was this was the house that they had purchased and it was literally [49:16] shaking and trembling because there was construction going on right nearby and that was and and I really think you know [49:23] and now more recently I went out to 7th um near the 72 I mean 7200 where the [49:32] trees all came down and stood in the front yard of the gentleman who is living in that house that is one of the [49:39] more affordable houses and just seeing the impact of the development that is happening sometimes and you know [49:46] development that got variances in all of that and and I think somebody told me [49:53] minona requires people to go out and look at the site you know from the [50:00] perspective of nearby residences I don't know if that's really true or not or maybe I'm remembering it wrong but being [50:07] on the ground and talking to people um I think is so important and I I just feel [50:15] like you know in getting ready for this meeting and I agree with member Pierce all of us want to see affordable housing [50:22] I have lost I mean my my friend who retired n single mother had to move [50:29] because of she lived right next to the Burly lot you know and looking at [50:35] overdevelopment and we are a fully developed City but who benefits from overdevelopment and I think the [50:41] developer might not have benefited from the overdevelopment and you know so I [50:47] guess I'm I'm going to stop now but we need to be doing things in a way that is [50:52] more reflective and helps us retain um [50:57] affordable housing but I think we need development that is much more thoughtful and not so you know allowing those tear [51:05] Downs that are just so massive it's not [51:12] working yeah so I I have two thoughts on this one is and this is I talked with [51:18] Scott when I was first elected about this and that is the revenue that comes from tear down rebuilds and that has [51:25] been um a big part of because of the tear down rebuild of single family homes [51:32] our budget has been able to grow over time because our base has been growing so quickly and the question have is [51:40] looking at the these slides uh 29 and 30 um how much stock is left is that is the [51:48] tear down the revenue that comes through the tear down rebuild um process is that [51:53] going to dry up and and whenn and that kind of goes to member Pierce's concerned about the you know single [51:58] family home median single family home hitting a million dollars um at some point in time we're going to hit set [52:05] saturation and um I'm concerned about um you know the revenue impacts of that or [52:12] how dependent are we on the tear down rebuilds for sustaining the revenue in the city um so you know the pie keeps [52:20] growing right so that the taxes stay relatively low because the p is growing [52:25] um and you know at what point does the high stop growing or the the rate of [52:30] growth diminish dramatically um and what are the what are the fiscal impacts of that um we we can see the affordability [52:38] uh for families um through this but um we as a an organization depend on the revenue that um comes through that [52:47] process um just all of this together um I will just say my opinion and it's [52:55] based on just you know lots of different sources is that we need options for seniors to be able to move out of their [53:01] single family home that is within their range um I think you know have I have a strong bias towards bringing families in [53:08] and school children um and I also know that it can be very frightening to leave [53:14] your home to sell it and not have a place close by to go to and you have to [53:19] pay start paying $3,000 rent a month your Equity dries up and what happens [53:24] when you reach 80 and you going to live for another 15 years but your Revenue your your home nest egg is gone um and [53:33] so the need for seniors to have safe comfortable um local housing to move to [53:41] um I think a lot of them would like to move out of their home not everybody you know a lot of people want to age in place but to have that option of being [53:48] able to downsize um in a comfortable and and Safe Way is uh I think something [53:54] that I would very strongly support and I don't know what that looks like but I I I'd like to see our single [54:01] family neighborhoods be as kid-friendly as possible um it's just why I moved [54:06] here why a lot of people live here it's a it's a strong value in our community with our connection with the schools um [54:13] but uh putting children in an apartment is very difficult and where our apartments are don't have a lot of parks [54:19] and stuff so it's that shifting of the population um and is that possible and [54:24] can we um support that [54:29] okay have some initial thoughts I mean it's interesting to see [54:36] more data but I don't know that I I have a ton of other thoughts than when we reviewed it last time I think like we [54:42] know that it's a problem in Indina the state the country um I sometimes feel [54:49] like I don't know what the right mechanisms are to begin to influence it [54:54] and I think this is almost what you were saying M Pierce of like what can we do what's the scope of the impact that we [55:01] can make and so mine are just like all big questions right but then also it [55:06] goes back to how do we quantify the benefit of doing so and I I think that [55:12] this highlights that there's a need we know that there's a need but the [55:17] corollary to that is why do we care and I'm not saying we don't but answering that question I [55:25] think directly I think is going to be really important as we build support for it and get Buy in [55:32] from our community on why we want to do this and in some ways right like we can [55:38] pick out the 10 people 15 people who reach out that are frustrated about [55:44] something but we also have I think survey data I think it's a part of our [55:49] um B anual survey of is affordability an issue and so there is some data that we [55:55] can glean from that um and I I do recall I don't remember the exact numbers but it is observed as [56:02] being an issue in our community from the survey thank you from the survey that we [56:09] have conducted and so I think some of it is to these aren't the people that are [56:14] all unless they're a part of the Ed neighbors for affordable housing these aren't the people that we're hearing from right they submitted the survey [56:21] they know we know it's a problem and we're fixing it um and so I think that's another thing to keep in mind is we [56:27] don't have to over fixate on the ROI but I think it's worth us having a couple of [56:32] data points or um tidbits that we can discuss of why are we investing into [56:38] this as a community if we elect to one of the data points that I would be [56:43] interested in is the traffic impacts of people living and working in town rather than commuting in um because in addition [56:50] to senior housing uh we we have relatively little Workforce housing and when our Workforce looks like and I love [56:57] that data from Deed on that um but you know what our Workforce is and the [57:02] extent it would have the effect it would have on traffic to get more people living in town who work [57:08] here I like that point and also one thing um with our 10% affordable housing [57:15] requirement um I am concerned about that and with the 7200 project you know it [57:24] just it sounds like it's not working it's broken and we end up paying for [57:31] something that we're supposed to just be getting so um I think we really need to [57:38] revisit how viable that is and I I tried to find out where that concept came from [57:44] and I I understand it was suggested by a council person and I think that speaks to we need and that might be wrong but [57:51] we need to be hearing from you what is the best thing we can do in terms of [58:00] very limited financial resources and and I would like it to be a very um holistic [58:07] view because you know at at some point I think you know what kind of Life are you [58:13] know do they have access to Parks you know where are the apartments what do the park facilities look like and yes I [58:19] have in my mind just thinking about a new rec center for Lewis Park versus [58:27] 15 units that are primarily single bedroom studio and den [58:34] and um the tradeoff that we as a a council supported and I just I feel like [58:44] um you know I feel for those kids who live and now I'm forgetting the name of [58:49] the in Amidon and you know aren't going to have a building that they can go to during the summer that has AC you know [58:56] and and I really feel for that whole Community where they have this park and [59:01] wck center that is so inadequate and you know so what does it mean to live in e [59:07] what does it mean to live in housing that is Affordable and what are [59:14] the amenities like in those neighborhoods because it it has to be a comprehensive kind of analysis so the [59:22] other thing is getting square footage for required units that are built you [59:28] know exactly what are we getting when we talk about 10% and okay so we fixed it [59:33] by providing 4.8 million of spark funds for that one project but we did nothing [59:39] and now we're not talking about it so but we need to wrestle with what does [59:44] this 10% requirement mean is it even viable um and it needs to be fixed on a [59:51] systemic level not a caseby casee kind of basis because then [59:57] we are going to end up continuing to just you know provide more and more public resources that could go to other [1:00:06] projects I think one thing that would be interesting and I'm going to maybe look at you Stephanie on this is I know over [1:00:13] time our and I know you've had some sides to this um but our ability to hold [1:00:20] um developers or Property Owners accountable to the longev of affordable housing and [1:00:27] I'm just thinking of the the latest approval that we did where we can guarantee the affordability and [1:00:32] perpetuity versus you know we were limited before of 20 years and I think it went to 30 years I think even just [1:00:40] having like how that's changed over time which I think we have seen But then why [1:00:45] we think we're in a better position now to hold new developments accountable I [1:00:52] think might help um moving forward [1:00:57] you've got that data point too about how many people are in affordable housing units right now that make I Stu in my [1:01:05] head yeah and to um commissioner Agnes Point yeah and we now put Declarations of restricted covenants against the [1:01:11] properties where we didn't in the early early early years yeah I feel like we're in a better [1:01:17] position um but I think just having those nuggets and that data point um would be [1:01:23] helpful just thinking about start you know where do we start talking about this think [1:01:30] about wion's here with us this morning from the time we were on the council together it's it's always been this [1:01:36] notion that we wanted to make sure that we had a life cycle of housing available for people living in our [1:01:43] community and um I think we've tried to figure out strategies around that uh to [1:01:50] the issue of whether we now have a problem that challenges different aspects of that lifestyle housing I [1:01:56] think you pointed that out pretty well pretty clearly that we got some challenges and the and to member IGN [1:02:01] point the quality of life survey does as much [Music] [1:02:07] um the challenge is that this isn't just our problem it's a global problem when [1:02:13] you think about production and affordability we've got our own little unique Niche on that just like every [1:02:20] Community faces that problem and if you if you go to these meetings that manager [1:02:26] even going to or you know you have prior Lakes talking about they got all this space available to build housing it's [1:02:32] more affordable but nobody wants it they're the Market's building what people want to live in you know and so [1:02:39] in Prior Lake that means might be 650,000 bucks and and uh to the townhouse notion [1:02:48] uh um look what mitaka just did they subsidized 10 town houses at a cost of [1:02:54] $750,000 per townhouse you can't subsidize your way out of this problem so what are we [1:03:01] going to do pick our spots and think go carollyn is saying pick your spots pick your pick your place you're going to try [1:03:07] to make a difference and um if we want to sustain our school district which is the driving [1:03:12] force in our town that's the reason people want to live here two reasons really location [1:03:18] and quality of the school district so what do we do to try to the location is fixed but the school [1:03:26] district quality you know we we work carefully with the school district to make sure that quality stays high [1:03:32] but how do we make sure that we got kids in the pipeline um living in our town and so [1:03:39] Hazel Reinhardt helped us with that I think uh with that analysis [1:03:45] um I don't think it means that we should just support the notion that the more tear down rebuilds we have the better [1:03:51] because they're more kids and more expensive houses but because I think we all believe that [1:03:56] we'd like to see kids uh teachers and everybody else that can afford to be here be here in some form or fashion so [1:04:03] you have a cross-section of people in your community like a lot of us grew up in everybody every kid benefits from [1:04:10] that I think going to school with a kids that whose dad might be a doctor [1:04:17] or whose dad might be an auto mechanic [1:04:22] um the auto mechanics kid might be smarter than the doctor doctor's kid you know you just find Talent everywhere so [1:04:29] I you know I've been thinking about ever since we had that meeting with hazel Reinhardt about this too and it seems [1:04:34] like if we're going to pick our spots the the land trust idea has been [1:04:40] interesting to me the Noah idea is interesting to me but I still don't have a sense of how far government should [1:04:47] stick its hand into the marketplace I I I I don't know what to think about that [1:04:53] and I think we'll get there together uh trying to work our way through this [1:04:58] issue and I think the housing foundation will be good guidance on this because we've got some really experienced people over there to help guide [1:05:05] us um but I think we're going to have to contemplate where where do we where do [1:05:10] we want to put our emphasis now we might get some money from the legislature there's a bill in place to let us use [1:05:17] leftover chip funds for posing affordability but we've seen from that [1:05:23] big pot of money we had from the Sal Tiff District it doesn't go that [1:05:28] far it just doesn't it doesn't last that long and go that far so what are we going to do I'm not sure either James [1:05:34] tried to work on that problem with a group of people and we still don't have that [1:05:40] issues uh addressed either this what our town is amenable to something like that making those kind of Investments for us [1:05:46] there's a lot of a lot of open questions in my mind yet this is all helpful of course but what I feel well I do think [1:05:55] we have to despite everything I started with we still got to face for reality for what [1:06:01] it is not as we wish it to be right that was my theme slides 25 and [1:06:08] 26 if those two Trends continue e will become an exclusive [1:06:17] Community unless the federal government comes in and dictates we do something [1:06:22] different and they were talking about that and National about doing that and the state is talking about doing that [1:06:29] and so I don't like I don't know how to solve it but if we keep going the way [1:06:36] we're going it's going to be an exclusive community and I think to me the there's [1:06:43] two challenges one is zoning and we talked about that a little bit and the other is [1:06:50] funding sources right so um it is I think this is still the [1:06:57] case for zoning I think it is still easier for me to buy two lots and [1:07:03] combine them and build a big house than it is to tear down a home on [1:07:10] a on a single lot or and replat it to do [1:07:15] Town Homes right and so that and so if [1:07:21] you think about that as is this this [1:07:27] slide and so if you think about that every [1:07:33] year with the available footprint we have we lose more and more opportunities [1:07:39] to do just that one idea because somebody's going to buy that lot tear it [1:07:44] down build a house um we have a friend that bought a lot built a house didn't [1:07:51] want anybody to live behind them bought the one behind them yeah right and replatted that so they could [1:07:59] do like a mother-in-law Suite or something and so every year right our [1:08:04] trend is this we're going to have fewer and fewer opportunities um unless we do [1:08:12] something and I just yeah I don't know how to answer that question well but [1:08:19] that's what it looks like you were talking about and maybe it was a townhouse use of the word townhouse but think of the four [1:08:26] was it three young guys that came with the idea of the tow houses up here in Vernon and we got to the very end of [1:08:31] that conversation all the way along I was thinking this is going to be something that's going to be hitting the missing metal and you asked what what [1:08:38] the price Point's going to be it was7 $900,000 yeah is that the new missing middle in [1:08:44] he dinina apparently you know so at the conference this year at the NLC [1:08:50] conference it was by far the major discussion it wasn't wasn't ter tariffs [1:08:55] it was the restructuring of the federal government it was housing and nobody has the answer right everybody's there's a [1:09:03] lot of experimentation going on across the country but it's it's a problem in [1:09:08] little towns and big towns and urban and rural and and all kinds of variations of [1:09:13] income and as as James noted I mean no less than the vice president of the [1:09:18] United States gave us a little bit of a lecture on what our local zoning Powers should be and how we should be acting [1:09:25] around them so it's it's getting a lot of attention right now but no answers we [1:09:32] we do though we're in a position right now where we could make changes or [1:09:38] commit to a development approach where I think it could be profoundly impactful [1:09:44] on the future because when I hear town houses I think that is a very viable option but again going back to thinking [1:09:52] about pervia surface and thinking about how do we get units that are more [1:09:57] affordable if we would just stand by our code and not do so many setback [1:10:03] variances you know and I think about proposals that came to us where the entire backyard was completely [1:10:08] obliterated and we didn't end up approving that but the most recent townhouse project that we did approve [1:10:15] fit the code it was beautiful and we didn't get a lot of we didn't get any [1:10:21] push back from the neighbors or anything and I think you know moving forward if we can do it you know if we can figure [1:10:28] out a way to do um density that is not so disruptive to people who are here [1:10:35] living in the more affordable houses who represent you know the list of professions that we just looked at today [1:10:42] I think that that is really the way to go um and I I think that that could be [1:10:49] so good for energy for the environment for walkability um all of that so I think [1:10:57] just following the code and you know just being very Mindful and you know it's interesting to hear 700,000 for [1:11:04] town houses that's a lot of money but we did 330,000 for rental units each [1:11:12] unit you know and so there's that well I think we got a difference of [1:11:19] opinion on the code I mean yeah you know it it's good to have zoning code and [1:11:26] have that overall guidance in my opinion but you're going to face circumstances that are going to require variation from [1:11:32] the code not the 10 commandments no and there can be some flexibility and like Bloomington puts a cap on um buildable [1:11:41] area that you can only go 25% over it or something um we go over you know two and a half times the buildable area um so I [1:11:50] think yeah you you can have some variation but we're really pushing [1:11:57] well I think we need to differentiate between the small area plans and and the [1:12:02] the PE and and that use and single family homes we're not pushing the limits on single family homes um I I [1:12:09] we're not it's very SE a single a request for variance to um you know really push the limits on what you can [1:12:15] build for a single family home so I think just a different to to clarify what you're talking about are in our [1:12:22] areas of change are your concerns because I'm not seeing that with single family homes but the I'm seeing it in [1:12:29] proposals coming forward to change from r one to R2 and so just kind of being mindful of [1:12:37] that it is happening in the proposals that we're [1:12:42] getting seen it twice there's a proposal as part of [1:12:48] this session that duplexes and town houses are [1:12:55] mandatory by preference in the single family neighborhood and I think we've [1:13:01] been historically opposed to that because we don't want to cause [1:13:07] a devaluation of single family neighborhoods so it's It's Tricky work [1:13:13] it is yeah you can you can find a spot like we see up on Vernon where it's a [1:13:18] it's a heavily Commercial Street it's a probably a I don't know if it's an A or [1:13:24] Arial or a collector but on some in some locations find some spots I guess it's [1:13:31] County Highway yeah um was a former US Highway it was a former US Highway [1:13:38] yeah for that activity but yeah it's tough work in a fully [1:13:44] developed Town that's [1:13:51] true does that give you some guidance I don't think so um at [1:13:57] all no in all fairness I think guidance [1:14:02] comes at the next one right right yeah that's what I was going to say um so the next meeting our plan is I mean there [1:14:10] are limitations to what the city can do but there are some things um I mean you can't buy your way out of a problem I [1:14:16] mean that I think we all know we just there's we don't have the financial capacity we do have control over land [1:14:23] use and Zoning we do have control over City owned land and what the future [1:14:28] development is of City owned land we do have some controls we do have some [1:14:35] controls over when people do I mean this land use come up with a lot split um and [1:14:41] how the response to that is so there are some things that the city does have control over but it's um it's not a [1:14:50] situation where we can buy our way out of the problem um and you know and and depends too when I've been behind a [1:14:57] school bus um and I've been driving down 76 and I get there's a school bus and the bus on loads in front of the sound [1:15:05] it's packed full of kids and so and that is an affordable development and it is [1:15:11] and it's a family development and it it's cute I mean I'm waiting for five minutes and I'm running late um as the [1:15:17] school bus is unloading but and they're all streaming into that building so you [1:15:23] know there there is that um too so some affordable housing when it's family designed does but that's just a little [1:15:30] um side so there are some things the city can do but the next meeting is really um [1:15:39] it's a roll up the sleeve meeting it's um we're working on how it's going to be afficiated but I think we're going to [1:15:45] have sticky pads and uh board where ideas are going to be placed and we're [1:15:52] kind of like a strategic planning process where we try to pin down some of the ideas that [1:15:58] you want some of the concerns listing some of the obstacles and trying to get a [1:16:06] framework using this information as grounding background [1:16:15] information so thank you thank you no this was intended to just give a snapshot of theate what's going on I [1:16:22] don't think we should have our next meeting until after the legislative sessions over so that we have the inside [1:16:28] we need to know what they told us we have to do that's a good okay that's fine um I had I wasn't thinking about [1:16:35] that and I was thinking about memory of policies plans and data and making sure that we snapped on it while the memory [1:16:42] wash could be wayed by the legislature we wait to see what they say yep so it [1:16:49] may be June or July then that we next meet on this [1:16:56] um I just I I see Nora Davis here and I'm thinking about the the difference between different neighborhoods and um [1:17:04] what a what a jewel of of diversity is in her neighborhood um we were not on [1:17:09] that list and I didn't understand that Lake Cornelia and South Cornelia were [1:17:14] not on the list of median home prices by neighborhood and I was [1:17:20] insulted by census track actually Nora but um but it's still nor I'm sorry to [1:17:26] interrupt you but it's a work session for the council it's not a public hearing I know but I couldn't help [1:17:31] myself maybe have a sidebar afterward or somebody but anyways um I've lost my [1:17:37] train of thought um I don't know just uh just thinking [1:17:44] about this in terms of of neighborhoods and um you know it's not [1:17:50] uniform I don't it's gone now you think [1:17:55] diversity of neighborhoods you were talking about yeah it's like and and I just you know there's a diversity of housing within different neighborhoods [1:18:02] and just um go to that next slide though where you show where the tear down rebuild [1:18:08] activity is yeah see look you flip those back and forth and you'll see that that [1:18:14] neighborhood that was we thought was affordable chowen park that's where almost all the par rebuild activities [1:18:20] taking place and and the tree REM Tak place in the more affordable neighborhoods they're moving from [1:18:25] the country clubs and the morning sides into those other neighborhoods yep yeah and um yeah just you know what I [1:18:34] guess what I'm thinking about is like the division of property into smaller lots and stuff and just kind of thinking [1:18:39] about this um in small Parcels as as well we have to have a you know [1:18:45] city-wide code but um I don't know it just it it's really striking to think of [1:18:52] this in terms of neighborhoods we got just a couple minutes for so maybe you guys that went to the National League of [1:18:57] cities could just is there more you want to tell us about housing I mean that's the topic we can stay on [1:19:03] topic uh I got a lot of notes about different things that are happening [1:19:08] observations other than those the wisdom from the vice [1:19:14] president no no I do have a lot of notes but I [1:19:23] mean he steered solution away from there's a lot of concern about Canadian [1:19:28] Lumber and the impr price of lumber increasing the price of housing right at the wrong time well put it at his feet [1:19:35] but he didn't put it at his feet uh he talked more about this is a local [1:19:40] government issue and we want to help you and well it's a number one issue for the US Conference of Mayors president this [1:19:48] cycle it does show the commonality of opinion amongst city [1:19:54] leaders across the [1:19:59] country okay well we could uh do anybody else has anything else for the good of [1:20:05] order we can stand adjourned we are adjourned thank you thank you everybody