[0:00] all right we're ready to go all right thanks for that well let's [0:07] call the order the city council work session for the 4th of March 2025 it is [0:12] 5:30 p.m. and uh roll call please Council [0:18] council member um Agy yes council member Jackson [0:24] here council member Pierce here council member Risser here mayor hublin pres [0:29] here um so we've got one meeting topic this [0:35] evening uh that our assistant City major Ari lens is going to introduce and then [0:41] uh MBA is going to lead us through some of the substantive part of it it looks like [0:46] the assistant city manager AR L thank you mayor thank you council tonight is [0:51] sort of a a long overdue we said we were going to talk to you about Community engagement this one got pushed off a [0:57] little bit further but this is going to be a fun one I think because it's a MJ's going to give you a little preview of [1:03] what we're working on but then there's going to be opportunities for you guys to kind of discuss and and um decide a [1:09] little bit um more about um giving us some Direction but there's nothing firm that you have to vote on there's nothing [1:16] uh you can continue to ponder after we leave this meeting and give us additional feedback if you want to but [1:22] it's just a fun discussion about how do we approach Community engagement here in the city of Adina so I'm turn it over to [1:29] MJ thank you Ari thanks for having me tonight um I have less than 10 minutes of slides and then at the end we also [1:36] have to do an update on the Strategic alignment conversation that we started at Retreat so we have about 40 [1:42] approximately 40 minutes in the middle to have a discussion um so as she mentioned tonight is really a [1:48] conversation no definitive decisions um looking for some feedback and to figure out where we can put our energy um I [1:56] do um I do have to go back on the history I don't know if you recall 11 years ago MJ came to the city OFA [2:04] because um we worked on a neighborhood connections program so it was a neighborhood association program um [2:10] which was 45 neighborhoods were um defined throughout the city of um Edina and there was a policy so I came in to [2:17] actually help Implement that program in addition to other work as well um in [2:22] 2016 2018 the race and Equity task Fork task force um was launched and I [2:27] actually LED that effort as well um in 2018 um as a result of the task force [2:34] the commun engagement division was made which really was um assigning a person to work or hiring or creating a new [2:41] position and because I was already doing that work we just kind of were able to evolve my position into that um space um [2:47] at that time we developed a strategy and that's when we adopted um the ip2 using that for our public [2:53] participation um in 2018 the budget pillars who which you are very familiar with those were actually developed as [2:59] part of the budget um work plan process in 2019 January we launched a Better [3:05] Together Dino which has been proven to be a pretty useful tool for us the first project we kicked it off I don't know if [3:11] you'll remember the 58 Street Redevelopment project but that was our first project that we launched on that [3:17] um website in 2019 um the race and Equity division was developed um and [3:23] that's when the work plan started and that position was created so at that time was the race and Equity um and then [3:28] in 2020 we added in addition to the budget pillars we added in those budget values so we um have established those [3:34] values as well so we're kind of having a conversation a little bit about the future and Beyond um some newer things [3:40] we've been working on and then what is coming up next um we do know that um we [3:45] will be looking at a new vendor for our online engagement site that doesn't change the face of it being better [3:51] together but it would change the backend vendor and we just want to make sure um that we have some sort of direction we [3:57] kind of know where we're headed to make sure that that um whatever we select kind of matches um our priorities as [4:06] well see okay so a little bit about how we got here um currently there's a [4:11] budget work plan item um that is named refined Community engagement methods and [4:16] we are currently redoing or reviewing those practices I'll talk more about that is um at the council retree we [4:22] talked about goal alignment and adjusting our work plan process to strategically align with the vision and Council goals so we kind of told you [4:28] that we were going to modif make the modifications hopefully make things a little bit more streamlined consistent [4:33] that ultimately the rollup would be moving the needle on our strategic priorities um the city manager work plan [4:41] I think as of last year um Scott there was I think it was last year right verifying okay was the lead a creative [4:48] effort to reform the current procedures um used to recruit and interview and select residents for boards and commissions so we will touch a little [4:54] bit on boards and commissions and talk about that today um and then values viewfinder um was developed in that 2021 [5:01] time frame where it was a decision-making tool for the inclusion of the city's values and action in the items and so we're always trying to [5:07] figure out better ways that we can engage and make sure that um we're including individuals and there's a sense of belonging within the city of [5:15] viina the budget work plan initiative so the refining Community engagement methods the tagline underneath it is the [5:21] city's reviewing Community engagement practices to focus on engagement opportunities outside of the boarding [5:26] commissions we know that boards and commissions are part of our engagement um and we'll mention them but we also [5:32] want to think about what are some of the other opportunities um there are a couple things that we've started working on and [5:37] I'm going to talk about those a little bit later as well so a little bit about commun [5:43] engagement it took me a while to kind of figure out how to explain when we're talking about the different like prongs [5:49] of community engagement so I kind of when I visually think about this I think about them in like three different [5:55] buckets tangents prongs I'm not sure the best word to use um but the first first one is Civic involvement which is really [6:02] um about Resident action um the definition we would say actions to influence or INF improve the community [6:09] hopefully the outcome would be that residents can change through personal and Collective action examples of this [6:15] would be voting advisory boards and commissions even like our community comment that we hold at city council as [6:22] well that second column is around public participation which really is like getting input for decisions so [6:29] definition would be those structured opportunities for residents to provide input that influences the city decisions [6:35] we are actually conducting public participation on a pretty regular basis um the outcomes would hopefully be that [6:40] our decisions reflect the community needs and priorities that we're using that input to influence our decision [6:46] depending on where it actually falls into the ip2 Spectrum examples of public participation and there's way more than [6:52] this but open houses surveys forums and really Better Together who matches up and offers a lot of those tools for us [6:59] um that third bucket is connections which really is about fostering those relationships um the definition building [7:06] lasting relationships and cultivate trust through collaboration um city council when we develop the community [7:12] engagement strategy one of the principles that Council asked for is that our principles were built on trust [7:18] so trust is at the bottom and we have the other four principles that are around that um outcomes long-term [7:25] connections make residents feel heard valued and included hopefully we would um achieve that by continuing to Foster [7:31] those relationships our best examples of those are programming um one-on-one knowledge sharing um listening spending [7:40] time Etc the closest program I can think of that would probably fall into this bucket would be neighborhood [7:45] associations would be one of those so with these three buckets so that Civic involvement one we do that pretty good [7:51] we have pretty high Civic involvement um we have more um we have more [7:56] applications than we usually have for positions for boards and commissions we have a pretty high um voting rate at [8:02] the city of edana so we do pretty good we have people that are continually showing up at those opportunities for them to um provide comment um public [8:11] participation we've come a long long way it's been a long journey but from 2018 [8:17] to 2019 I mean we have um consistency we have resources and tools available um we [8:24] have templates together um the way that we're onboarding our um Consultants and [8:29] what we're asking for them when they are doing their um Community engagement we've been doing a lot better with that [8:35] and Better Together really has allowed us I would say a broader um voice and [8:40] not necessarily the same people that may show up in those Civic involvement spaces um the third area um is an area [8:47] where there's probably some opportunity um often times I get asked like hey MJ I'm doing this project do you know a [8:54] larger Community around this topic area it would be great right if we could [8:59] to automatically know who those individuals are but we do need to work on the fostering the relationships and having those connections before we even [9:06] ask them to participate in something um I'm aware there's a ton of crossover [9:11] right one might lead to another type of thing and but there is some opportunity of things that we can do um with our [9:17] engagement so do you want to discuss when we when you get to the end or is it [9:23] uh yeah I think that's is that okay is that okay that's fine fine there's not very many slides no [9:30] sure um okay so what are we doing or currently doing um our activities listed on the right hand side um we have our [9:37] boards and commissions you're all familiar with those we have task forces um our most recent one obviously we have [9:43] one active right now the human rights and engagement task force the one prior to that that is the most recent I [9:48] believe is the streets funding that was in 2022 yep um better together um that [9:55] has a pretty large um registration base associations from those 45 we have 12 [10:02] neighborhoods that are considered recognized by the city that doesn't mean that we don't have other relationships [10:08] with some of the other ones um but we have 12 that actually have gone through the process um new that next one U which [10:15] is a government 101 so this is something that we started working on in late 2024 [10:21] uh creating a municipal Academy so um a way that individuals could engage the [10:27] local government or learn more about the government with a shorter commitment so it's a five night series that happens [10:34] from April to May and actually you should know but because I think it on the Frid awesome um apartment manager [10:39] Coalition the other thing that we started in 2024 um that we really wanted to do was to be able to access or get or [10:46] to get information to the renters a little bit better we knew that one of the best ways to get information to them [10:52] is to mail something that actually goes into their mailbox not something that [10:57] goes in that little like doorway that right that's got the mailboxes and it's laying on the floor [11:03] the only way to do that was to actually have the unit numbers so a group of us [11:08] um Stephanie hackinson I'm not going to mention everyone but Nick Thomas myself Anna Den we spent time driving around [11:15] and going out and trying to meet the managers and securing those unit numbers so that was phase one which we've [11:20] actually completed which is great because that means we have all those unit numbers in our GIS and we can [11:26] easily pull a mailing list for them if we have like an area that we want to Target um second phase would be more [11:33] around continue to Foster those relationships with the managers and maybe offer some educational series we [11:39] haven't quite um ironed that all out yet um we also have the Multicultural advisory committee which are probably [11:45] all similiar as well um it is a committee that is advisory to the police department under the [11:50] jcpp um and then we do have volunteer Dina um so we do have a a program um [11:57] that we have like the framework of a volunteer program we have um some active [12:02] uh volunteer uh activity that's happening in some of our departments not consistently across our city um not [12:10] consistently building new volunteer opportunities but it's the ones that have kind of already existed that we do [12:16] have staff that are continuing to involve Volunteers in the program for example playground programs is one of [12:22] the active ones um reserves obviously um like our chaplain programs and then like [12:28] skate stool skate school we have some things at the Brar [12:33] Arena okay so what we know there's a little bit of data that I was able to [12:39] dig up um by the Minnesota Association of volunteer Administration I actually served on the board for maava years ago [12:45] when I was a volunteer coordinator at Children's they actually did a survey in 2022 they do surveys it's every two [12:52] years but the post pandemic prompted them to do one in 2022 to figure out what's happening so they have three [12:59] trends that um kind of came up in the higher level and that they called out and then there's a couple things that [13:05] they just noticed some increases in as well so in 2022 um 42% of the [13:11] individuals uh that they surveyed indicated increased interest in short-term volunteerism in the past year [13:18] 57 indicated volunteers seem increasingly busy um 35 IND indicated [13:23] increased interest in Virtual volunteering I don't think you're going to be surprised by any of those trends that we saw [13:29] um the other increases were around um using workplace skills helping the local community evening and weekend um [13:37] volunteering with friends and family um older adult aging know and so some concern of losing some volunteers and [13:44] then interest in student internships that there's an increase in that as well okay so that's all the information [13:51] that I have for you I do have some prompts as well but maybe this is a Time Caroline where you want to also provide [13:58] some com yeah I'd like to go back to your three pillars if we could please yeah um so in [14:05] public participation I think people would include public hearings in [14:10] that and and that creates kind of a disconnect [14:16] because we have these forums like we did for the um Lincoln and London Dairy right where we come and we get input and [14:23] people and it is a truly back and forth whereas when we have public hearings [14:29] especially on on um controversial things y that creates a lot of they didn't [14:34] listen to me yeah and and it's not they don't feel heard they don't feel that [14:39] they're making having an input um on decisions and so I mean all all the [14:46] things you have listed are very positive but our public hearing process oftentimes somebody goes on home [14:54] unhappy and then that gets translated into they didn't listen to me um Y and [15:00] that does not build in connections trust um and then under connections [15:08] um you did not include and you did it at the end but the work the police is doing [15:14] to Foster relationships Y and I think that's a really important part of of what we're doing probably one of the [15:19] most active besides you um that we're building this and we talked about the um [15:24] alternative response team at the luncheon today and um and so I would [15:30] include that in fostering relationships I think that's a pretty strong thing and [15:35] then in the next slide [15:41] um yes night to unite I think that picture on top is from night to night it [15:46] could it's actually not it's not okay together nope it is actually the neighborhood assoc association summer [15:53] Gathering so we partner with um arts and Recreation and the ad CFT [15:59] foundation and so neighborhoods that will hold a summer Gathering they pick the location date we send Parks and Rec [16:06] staff to go out to facilitate games and play kickball all the all the games and then um PD comes out as well we [16:14] reimburse them up to $200 for whatever supplies they need for the party so this [16:19] is actually stco orchan Park um yeah I I recognize some of the neighbors but but [16:26] event would we in would we include night to unite as an activity yeah okay that's [16:32] an event okay yeah cuz that that like that looks like night to unite that's a great and that's there's a lot of back [16:38] and forth at night T night um good way of building that relationship like who [16:44] are we what do we do and with each other as a neighborhood right yeah so I'm I'm [16:50] pretty those are my comments I'm thank you for those comments those are excellent um I'm pretty sure I think I [16:55] might have the slide in here but um if you guys guys can visually remember what the Spectrum looks like from um from [17:03] inform consult involve collaborate and power public hearings is in that consult [17:09] so you have to think about it the visual is actually a circle um or it's a circle with little circles with arrows coming [17:15] in it's a one-way process um so that so it's just yeah technically you're [17:22] correct I'm just saying that the impression is that that is also a you [17:28] know consult and and inform and sort of thing and and so that's if I was just a [17:34] member of the public who had been participating well that's all good and fine but they didn't listen to me um and [17:40] so I just wanted to put that out there as just a public um perception that I [17:47] has I've heard yep so in a direct response to that I would [17:52] say we play a role in that as well in how we give a response of and not saying [18:00] you don't do it I think you do do this but like we hear you and there are [18:06] multiple inputs from both sides or multiple sides right but yeah we're [18:11] never going to I there's no way to combat that I guess it's just it's a structural um conflict right because it [18:18] is it is a one-way conversation and a public hearing yes and these other [18:24] things are M meant to build relationship and everything but but it's just a [18:29] structural thing yeah but even in the public participation column right there are other techniques that you can use [18:35] that actually do have that more iterative process and collaboration it's just that public hearings are only set [18:41] up for that one way and they're legally required right so in the world of like engagement right we like we wouldn't say [18:49] if you were going to pick a technique at that level we wouldn't pick that technique right we would say is there a [18:54] better way to do this or to collect input legally you have to do it though [19:00] so yeah I'm just I guess that was just I heard that I'm like we because we want [19:05] we want to build trust and we want to build relationships with the community but that's something that we need to [19:11] keep in the back of our head as the perception of that it may those things may not be perceived differently even [19:17] though they are different I also want to layer on to that visual of the three [19:23] pillars we'll say um I would be interested to also layer in the [19:29] Spectrum um to understand how these relate and even if it's [19:34] not as simple as showing the Spectrum at the top but even just showing here is [19:40] the phase of the Spectrum in which this is representative of might help tie [19:48] those Concepts [19:57] together jie going to make a comment yeah I I think the other thing is follow [20:03] through and looking at the building lasting relationships and cultivate trust through collaboration leaving it [20:11] simply at that and talking about you know how iterative processes are a good thing um does not address some of the [20:20] frustration I'm hearing from residents which kind of Falls along the line of [20:26] why should I participate they're not going to listen to me um you know I participated in the small [20:31] area plan you know I dedicated a huge amount of time to that I saw it get put [20:39] into the comprehensive plan but it's not being followed and they can point to [20:45] specifics where it's not being followed even things that have to do with safety [20:51] and I think back to just our last HRA meeting where you know I talked about the trees that all came down on this [20:58] 7200 site and um I know residents are [21:04] frustrated I brought it up and the response I got was and I read from a [21:09] document that said those trees would remain along the western edge those Tre I mean it I don't [21:17] have the words right here but it said specifically in the document those would remain and the response I got back was [21:25] we're aware they took down 14 trees that they should have taken down okay and [21:31] so I didn't say anything cuz it's a meeting and I you know and you don't [21:36] necessarily think about it but after the fact I'm like I really didn't feel heard and then since then um someone has said [21:43] well actually there's another document that says it was 21 trees that were supposed to remain not 14 and then I [21:51] just found out it's not just that there were 21 trees and 14 trees trees from [21:58] the in property were removed by the developer and so um and I [22:05] and also at that h meeting um I can't remember I think it was I [22:11] think James you said this that you wanted the developer when things like this happened to come before and then [22:17] that kind of got pushed off as well you can talk about that at the final site plan process but I think some of the [22:25] frustration that neighbors residents are expressing has to do with you know not [22:33] just these discreet ways in which they can participate but what happens after [22:41] and when they look around the community and they see things it just kind of and I think everybody's got their little [22:47] point like I was upset along Valley View on a sidewalk there was a portapotty that sat there for weeks and weeks and [22:54] weeks now there's a portapotty sitting on the Oakland sidewalk right you just there's you know and that happens here [23:02] and you know it it will happen it will be there um no matter I'm kind of [23:09] getting off topic but I mean there are things that are happening That You Don't See necessarily happening in other communities that make people feel [23:16] frustrated and not heard and I think one of the worst is when you put all this time and energy into a small area plan [23:22] and then it just some of the Basic Essentials of it there was supposed to be an artwork um in the Wooddale Valley [23:30] View area that was welcoming and indicating that this was the gateway to the neighborhood there was no space left [23:37] for that and then I know staff did reach out to Residents who were involved to [23:42] see if they would be interested in working on not an artwork but it was going to be an artistic sign and it [23:47] wouldn't be on the property where it was supposed to go it would be on the land adjacent to it and by this point everyone is just so bummed out and [23:56] they're also thinking great it's going to be there closer to the road it'll be another visual thing that blocks you [24:03] know people from seeing kids biking and walking and all of that and so I don't [24:08] think anybody agreed to be part of it and now there's nothing there and I mean they'll probably be a sign at some point [24:14] that says Wooddale Valley View you know and who knows where it'll be placed um [24:19] but I think residential feedback is so important but if people give it you know [24:25] and and not all residential feed there's going to be conflicts as Kate you point out that's just inherent in the process [24:32] but if you know the final decision or its code or it's you know this vision [24:38] gets ignored it's really hard to encourage people to come forward and to [24:46] participate I do so I respect what you're saying I think there's a part of that's I think outside [24:53] of this process or maybe it's not in terms of how we follow up on some of [25:00] these types of issues um and so I definitely think that that when we [25:05] talked about the trees to me that was one of those things if we really had a developer promis to [25:12] do something that they didn't do that actually happens but I would want to understand [25:20] why did that happen and I personally think something should happen if they [25:28] committed to do something and then they didn't do it but I think that that to me that is a little bit outside of this [25:33] process but in kind of um combining your [25:39] both your points I think this is squarely um in this [25:45] context I've had people Express that we don't care about their [25:51] feedback as well and I've just started saying you want to [25:59] engage but really what you want is for me to hear you and agree with you and [26:05] that's not going to happen all the time and so if the fact that you want me to always agree with you if that's what you [26:13] want then we actually don't need to have coffee but if you want to have a two-way [26:19] dialogue that I grow from and that you grow from you're going to enter into this engagement model in that [26:25] way that's what we're trying to do right it's not a [26:31] one-way um it's not a one-way conversation and I think people have to [26:36] I think we have to hold ourselves accountable but in this process I think [26:41] we have to hold the community accountable too to engage in that way [26:47] and we can't be afraid to say well actually yeah public hearing is one way [26:54] but if you want to engage on a comment you made at public public hearing let's [27:00] talk about that but that for is not the right for to do [27:05] that I've done this long enough for when I was a young younger council person I [27:11] can remember a time when this was before we even had uh Communications Department [27:16] we'd have hearings in the old public old old city hall and U people would come [27:23] and their voice would be heard and they knew that [27:28] you had to make a decision as a city council member and you may or may not agree with them you know and just [27:34] because I didn't do what you wanted me to do doesn't mean I didn't hear you and it didn't enter into my decision- making [27:39] process it helped me make a better decision more U thoughtful decision a [27:44] more contemplative decision but they would go away feeling like they [27:51] had been heard because they got to stand up and give their opinion and but they [27:56] knew that we might not agree with them or the majority of the council might not agree with their [28:01] opinion but over time I've seen a situation evolve where people go away [28:07] now and say you didn't listen to me as because you didn't agree with [28:12] me what do you think that's not always true what's [28:18] changed maybe it's people [28:23] changed like think of social media that didn't exist yeah Jim and I first [28:28] started hanging out in the council chambers every other Tuesday night it was it was highly [28:36] respectful no one left mad they just knew that their voice was heard they understood it we had to make a decision [28:41] and off we went one way or another and u i but there was a period [28:48] where it was even worse you'd have people leave City Hall and they were they were mad on the way out of council chambers because you didn't agree with [28:54] them you know they would may be hollering on the way out of the council chamber that doesn't happen I don't think very much [28:59] anymore but it could be a little bit of a side issue to what we're talking about here on that tree issue you know the [29:07] minute we heard that there were some trees coming down over at 7200 um I think the developer was sent a [29:14] text and he I don't know exactly what happened over there maybe Chad does uh [29:20] but I think it was car do yeah it was a combination of the Watershed district and AR arborist [29:28] making decisions about what trees are coming down and I think Ted Carlson was out of town because I got a text from [29:35] him saying I'm all over this I don't know what's going on but I'm trying to figure out what's happening so to your [29:40] point get the facts yeah and we're still look still Gathering facts right because there's a [29:47] lot of different stories about I'm not even sure yeah the developer knows exactly what happened and why it happened but I had a sense from them [29:54] that they didn't like the idea either because that's what they had promised so so can I oh go ahead James go ahead I'm [30:02] going to change the topic so oh let me go ahe you want to go back to commun the [30:07] engagement I do but I so let's so it's not about this I so I'll just ask the [30:12] question then do you listen to what Carolyn has and then you kind of frame it okay um so I was going to go to your [30:19] second bullet point rethinking engagement who's missing but I was going to ask you if you could um just [30:28] give us a view of the associations so I think you were doing a [30:35] deal where there were you have these formal associations you got some apartment groupings if you could kind of [30:42] just speak to from within that model how broadly [30:47] are we impacting the entire Community um yes I can give you so I do [30:54] have some data that I stored in case you did ask for something we did not like dive in deep to study all this and come [31:01] up with theories Etc but I can show you what I do know um uh you probably have [31:09] seen this here I'll go back into that's one of my favorite slides yeah you have seen this one before and you'll see it [31:15] probably again and actually um you'll see it at the H talking about affordable housing um but this is um showing where [31:22] the most diverse areas of um the city of Idina are and also like you can tell if there's a concentrated dots more [31:29] populated there's more individuals um the next slide I can show you let's see sorry is um you've seen [31:37] this one too right Boards of commissions um where our appointed members are [31:43] represented uh geographically this just a one year this Yep this is just a one-ear snapshot so [31:49] this is not overtime um here's the neighborhood ones if you're curious about the 12 [31:56] neighborhoods um that are considered recognized by the city of um we clearly [32:02] have a lot of engaged residents up in the north um [32:10] East can I show you one more or you want to stay here okay you want to serve that [32:16] that club there that's right in Highlands um the last data point that I [32:25] have um that I just pulled this together so I talked about how Better Together was launched in 2019 and we're up to [32:31] 4,166 registrations um one of the questions we do ask them is the neighborhood to find [32:37] out again where geographically are you located or who's engaging with us um the [32:42] dark purple have the most um the the slanted lines show you if they're [32:49] recognized so again morning side CH Park are the darkest and have the most [32:56] individuals actually registered on better together um both of those are [33:01] recognized neighborhoods um so I have a [33:09] concern that um we have I guess I'll say neighborhoods or [33:19] maybe smaller communities I don't know how how to say that [33:24] that art as engaged in the process and so [33:30] like I think of like South Cornelia I think of um Park wnel some of those have [33:37] been established for years and are [33:42] organized right they they meet frequently so morning side is another [33:48] one so um there are other areas in the city [33:54] that either they're not recognized and they don't have that same [33:59] structure and so I think about like like could we do that with apartment [34:05] complexes like how would we ensure we have a method where folks in the [34:13] apartments like Amon Flats how would they engage in the process [34:18] um and so that's one of the one of the and I don't want to call it a concern MJ [34:25] I just want to opportunity yeah it's an opportunity to just make sure that we [34:30] have tools and techniques that can reach broader uh cuz my concern is [34:36] that if we only if the structured neighborhoods who are very structure [34:44] right um we end up in an echo chamber and you can do that on each side [34:52] right it's not good for us as elected leaders to be only hearing predominantly [34:58] from one group um and not from others and so I don't I don't want to be [35:04] in an echo Chamber from that perspective and so if there are ways that we can [35:10] further engagement further um push engagement uh with different tools [35:15] techniques to just make sure that we have a way of getting more feedback yeah [35:21] did you say early in your presentation that you're looking at some other providers software I think software [35:27] software providers that would be involved in the public engagement business um it would be for uh the [35:33] online engagement so it would be a replacement for the current vendor that supports Better Together in [35:39] Dina and so how do you go about making those selections and is that done [35:45] internally or is that something you bring to us um it's done us about yep it's done uh it's done internally so [35:51] typically there's like an RFP RFQ that goes out and there's a project team that's Citywide that does the demos um [35:59] goes through the features criteria what do we need um and makes a selection that we vet with our leadership team um and [36:07] then depending on the cost right if we need to get approval a request for [36:13] purchase then that's when you would probably see it that's what the process has been thus far there be an advantage [36:20] in having a voice of at least one council person in that process of of of selection instead [36:28] because it seemed to me like last time when you came with Better Together it felt like a done deal you know I don't [36:33] know whether they're I you know I go to these us Conference of Mayors meeetings people have gone to National League of cities you see all these vendors there [36:40] yeah and you know um I see like Zen city is always it's an Israeli based company [36:47] U they're always at uscm meetings I don't know if they're better or worse than anybody else but I I never [36:55] even hear who you talk to and what their what their Bona fetes are right it'd be [37:02] nice to know that so we could we could vet them different ways too I mean we could vet [37:07] them with national league of cities we could vet them with the Minnesota League of cities we could and maybe you do that [37:13] it would also make sense to have um community members involved since this [37:19] is the mechanism through which they will be [37:25] participating adding more Cooks to the kitchen in in that case uh the downside [37:31] of it is that it diminishes the accountability for what's selected ultimately [37:38] um we go through a process that whenever we're going to buy something whether it's a service or a software or product [37:46] that if once we determine there's a need for it there's a there's pretty standard processes that we go through whether [37:51] they're rfqs or rfps or rfis um they get evaluated by not just [37:57] the staff that are going to use them but also Our IT staff so that so it make sure that it's something that's going to [38:03] be integrated into our greater systems it' be nice to have something on better [38:08] together though saying you know sort of a suggestion box if you could if you could fix this what would you do and [38:15] then we would have that data people would have a voice but you then staff can make a decision in in a in a I think [38:22] that's a thought I was just imagining A Better Together on better together but um [38:27] but I do think I I think that something like that that spawn up of what you know what features would you be looking for [38:33] and then we can see if we can find them the reality is we might not find them for the price point we want to be at or [38:39] we might find something that does this but doesn't do that but I think getting input isn't a bad thing so yeah you [38:45] might hear something that informs in a meaningful way what decision you make [38:50] from the public and I think you know that at the core is why we are all here [38:58] well we do have to be effective in it yes right and so I think both of you [39:05] guys talked about we ask for feedback and people walk away feeling like we [39:10] didn't use it yeah and so like I could totally see that happening in this way [39:16] if we're asking for feedback somehow on this new Better Together tool just got [39:22] to make sure we're doing it in a way so that if we don't we don't actually [39:28] have people feel like we're just doing it for show I mean the intricacy is a [39:34] behind the scenes right we're really like evaluating like what types of tools are available for us to use that would [39:40] help with what we're trying to accomplish with engagement I mean we're looking for things like Ada um [39:46] translation those types of features that have to be available to us so there are some like mandated things that we do [39:52] need to have as well I I want to give you some confidence that I think when we [39:58] select um website um content Management systems [40:03] that we're we're doing the work that you would hope we're doing so we've done kind of the blind test we've used [40:10] ascendency research in the past we're right they come in completely blind they're just residents they don't know [40:16] what's for the city of Edina they don't know what they're testing and we ask questions like we're going to show you [40:23] an engagement website what would you expect to see and sometimes the things they say we would never have guessed [40:31] right because sometimes we're building it for the people who are participating today um so that's an example of how [40:37] we've um ensured we're getting good products we've used our Communications feedback group and B beta stages to be [40:45] looking at the sites providing feedback and and helping us before we launch a [40:50] product to the to the public it's good to know we're already doing that but really you remember this was not our [40:56] first engagement site we had a site before called speak up it's it's just a different platform [41:03] and this one has has frankly we're Beyond its useful life at this point the [41:08] development team at granicus is no longer uh keeping this this model [41:13] current and if we're going to keep up with engagement Trends Across the Nation we need to replace the [41:19] software so I want to change the topic um this whole conversation as [41:26] we've been thinking about the budget and everything I've been thinking a lot about what is the business we're in right and so and we wanted to get back [41:34] to those pillars but I'm thinking there are three things that we want to [41:39] accomplish with um Community engagement one is to foster a sense of belonging in [41:46] our community and that feeds into public safety if people feel they have a stake [41:52] in the community then they are feeling that they will not participate in crime [42:01] right so that people who who enjoy living here are going to you know pay their taxes they're going to be [42:07] law-abiding citizens they're going to be good neighbors all that sort of thing that we want people to be happy living [42:12] here we want them to feel they belong and um Public Safety uh flows from that [42:19] and then also we want to have Public Safety right so you know your neighbors you feel much safer um and then going to [42:26] the today in the the epidemic of loneliness um health and loneliness are [42:32] also affected by knowing that you feel safe you know who you are you belong in [42:38] the city you have neighbors you have connections and that goes to our pillar of um of Health in all policies as well [42:49] so the questions aren't Jing with me and those those things um I know you think about [42:56] this stuff all the time but um but to me it's are the community engagement things that we are doing [43:03] building the sense of belonging the sense of safety in this sense of connection that is important for both [43:08] mental and physical health and well-being um and so that's the goal that we have with Community engagement [43:14] as far as I'm concerned um and sometimes other things you know come [43:20] into that but um but that is more important to me than was my voice [43:28] heard in this decision and and we want decisions to be reflective of the community and so it's really good to get [43:34] that two-way conversation going but ultimately um the point of community [43:39] engagement is that that health and well-being um I that's a good conversation to have amongst ourselves [43:46] is that what are we trying to accomplish with Community engagement and you know right now it feels so uh kind of on a on [43:53] a broad basis it feels real binary it feels like it's public and that's [43:58] government and residents and that how do you have that [44:04] navigate that communication or that linkage back and forth but what about [44:10] People to People yeah what about within the community itself I mean you you could almost distinguish public [44:16] engagement from Community engagement because both those methods [44:22] help build uh a sense of you just called it [44:27] carollyn we talked about at noon too everybody wants to feel like they belong somewhere and that they they're and they [44:33] have a sense of community and you you you can go about the effort of trying to build Civic [44:38] trust through every kind of process you can create but that that might not be the right way to do it I mean you might [44:45] we might be thinking about trying to build an interconnected we're together we are [44:53] each other community that just inherently builds those trust elements [44:58] into it because of the way our town is whether it's you're interacting with government or you're interacting with [45:03] each other and there's maybe no distinction I don't know but I just [45:11] can um so I don't I something else I was going [45:17] to into the the fact that they voice matters I think that's just an inevitability that we're a [45:23] decision-making body at some point in time we got to make decisions sometimes that are difficult and and we're not [45:29] always going to keep everybody satisfied so um and oh I know what I was going to say and it's like the Eternal Quest it's [45:37] like we never we got this communication Department we never used to have one and now we've got this communication Department very capable and you can [45:44] never communicate well enough it's it's you're after it all the time to try and be a better communicator and a better [45:51] engager um and it just makes you think about government itself because yeah you [45:57] know those some of those mirors are so alive like Jim Van valkenberg he told me well here's the way it [46:02] worked uh I'd go to the city council meeting and Warren Hyde the city manager would tell me what he and uh the mayor [46:10] had concocted for what they were going to do that night and they told us how to vote and nobody's voice mattered people [46:17] could come in and talk and no nobody's voice mattered and then in the Fred [46:23] Richards era uh there's there's a famous story about ched Richards talking to some guy [46:29] in the street and he got tired of listening to him and he said he pulled out a quar he said here's your money back I'm done listening to you you know [46:36] and they made decisions based on uh the fact that it was a representative form of government and they didn't really [46:41] worry too much about what the public input was so as we've evolved with more [46:48] and more Community engagement over time in this binary relationship if you [46:54] will um we tried to get back better and better at it all the time um and I know some of those old [47:02] folks that came from another era they look at us like well what what's the deal you're you're you were you were [47:07] elected to do a job just do the job do do do the best you can but we feel like we do the best we can and we [47:13] hear a lot of voices from other people in our community that help us make a better more well reasoned decision I think at least I think that's what we do [47:20] what I try to do I don't disagree with that I I don't think I have [47:27] an issue taking a decision that people [47:33] won't agree with um and I just like to be able to explain [47:39] why I made the decision that I made but but I still think [47:44] um this process of making sure we have inputs to come to the best decision [47:52] like I still want I still do want that um [47:58] and so like I used to say everybody has an opinion is what you're saying but not everybody's opinion always matters which [48:05] is also true but um but everybody prevails or prevails yeah but everybody feels that [48:13] their input is of equal value um and I [48:18] don't know that that's always true either but that's why it's such a [48:24] delicate balance I so I had one question though on the your comments um member [48:33] Jackson so under connections I felt like [48:39] outcomes um it's like it's not up there but longterm connections make residents [48:44] feel heard Valu and included um and so I think there's an aspect of this that's trying to do what [48:51] you said and so we don't talk about safety up there so there's some color that could be add added to it but my [48:57] question was is in your comments are you envisioning [49:05] something tangental to this or is that part of or is this part of a [49:13] bigger model that includes maybe other efforts that go [49:19] after what you're describing or are you thinking those elements should be in here [49:28] well I've been zero in my head I've been zero [49:33] budgeting on everything that we do okay okay and to zero budget this effort you [49:41] know whether it's money or effort we engage with the [49:47] community because we're in the safety business and when we have an Engaged [49:52] Community they feel that they belong and they're part of what we do and so I'm [50:00] just I'm trying to look at everything from the ground because [50:07] um we have a large tax levy and so everything that we do I'm I'm looking at [50:15] how does this go to our core Mission and um and trying to get a sense of that um [50:21] and you know I I love the work that you do MJ and you know that and it's been it's been one of the most wonderful [50:28] experiences working with you um but long-term connection make residents feel [50:33] he heard valued and included I'm not sure that that's true I think some of the people who have lived in Nina the [50:40] longest feel the least heard and people who have served on boards and commissions have gone away [50:46] frustrated because they have ideas and they want to do stuff and it's a slow process and it's a frustrating process [50:53] sometimes but do you think that is a true outcome of this process though that people would want to feel that way [50:59] you're saying people don't I understand that but do you think that that is an outcome that this process should I I [51:07] don't really honestly um because I'm thinking about what the mayor said where public and private right so most [51:15] people and and I learned a lot this someone door knocking and I talk about that a lot and I don't I don't want to [51:20] get political but I talked to a lot of people and the number one response I got [51:28] was I like living here I said well if you like living here vote for me because I've been on the city council for four [51:34] years and I like living here too um and then they'd say I got to go my my dinner's burning I mean you literally if [51:40] you could have one sentence conversation that was it and most people are very very busy they love living here they [51:48] love their neighborhoods and that's the end of the story and so and then you [51:54] know you'd love to have a long conversation what and stuff but you literally had 10 uh 15c [52:01] conversation so people aren't saying you know this element of the city just [52:08] doesn't really jive with me and this thing over here they're not thinking [52:13] that way they're like dinner's burning my kids crying the dog's barking and I [52:18] have a paper you know I've got a report due tomorrow and so if you can the police show up the snow gets plowed and [52:26] I don't have to worry about my kids getting hit when they're playing in the yard you know by a random car or something then they're [52:32] happy so when we have Community engagement that's sort of the the Baseline where I'm starting and then [52:38] Community engagement is you know when I had a problem and I went to the city I felt heard and that may me think you [52:46] know what is going on with trees in our city or what is going on with historic preservation and then I made friends and [52:51] then we got this community and so that's where you know Community engagement grows out of that and what where this [52:58] conversation started is it was in my mind it's a cliff jump so from I really [53:03] like some of the cool things the city does oh my gosh now I'm at a two-hour meeting once a month for three years and [53:10] and there isn't that ramp up to that level of Engagement but we want to make that a ramp up where people say hey I [53:18] really think the city's doing something cool and I want to participate in it because I love the city and I want to [53:23] give back and we hear that in the in the um interview we have for boards and commissions and when they have that [53:29] sense of ownership when they have that sense of I have participated I belong I am a part of the good work that we're [53:36] doing then that builds um you know safety anti- loneliness Health [53:42] neighborhoods and things like that um and the number of people who I talked to I served on a commission once I was on [53:49] the Planning Commission I was on this commission and they love talking about that for the most part a couple of them [53:54] are like and I didn't get my way you know but that's you know that's a conversation so that's kind of where I'm [54:00] going with this um and I I can't draw that back into what MJ has written [54:07] really I'm afraid I'm sorry I'm not making that connection but um but that's been my experience and and that's all I [54:15] have to say do that answer your question [54:21] no but that's fine I just want to add one little bit into the community engagement conversation um is that you [54:29] can do it at different levels for different things right and so where I've seen the most successful Community [54:35] engagement um that's focused on getting specific input is when you have big policy documents when you're at a high [54:42] level and you're checking in and you're able to really engage and spend time building those relationships to get that [54:47] input but I do think there's a there's a piece of that that in order to get the people at the table to know you have to [54:54] do the work ahead of time in order to to make sure you have that infrastructure so that it's not just certain people [55:01] that are getting the voice in that conversation so it's it's both right um it's the high level how do you get the [55:08] the the policy level make sure we're checking in but you can't just do that component you have to do the ongoing [55:15] relationship building the checking of who's participating who's not how do we engage how do we go to those [55:20] neighborhoods and whatever that looks like in order to be able to find the people where they're at um and so I [55:26] think you got to have multiple Avenues in order to be able to accomplish that [55:32] it's not just one yeah one model can I offer a little bit more is that um I I [55:37] love your visual of like the ramp up I guess the question would be is that the ultimate goal is that everyone gets a Civic involvement given the trends that [55:44] we know in the data that people are busier right and they're looking for [55:50] those shorter commitments and we have people knocking on our door left and right of can we be virtual at these meetings right so I I guess what are the [55:57] other ways that we can engage individuals um I will offer two things on neighborhoods is that one there is [56:03] research out there that if you are or like organized or have a neighborhood association you know your neighbors by [56:08] default your neighborhood is safer like that's the reality of the situation is [56:14] that because if you happen to know that the Johnson I'm just going to use basic people's name Johnson's across the [56:19] street or on vacation Hawaii and you see someone you're going to be more likely to call but if I have no idea who that [56:24] neighbor is I'm not going to call um the other thing too is that our neighborhoods um the leaders have been [56:31] really effective on renters they report back to me all the time when they do door knocking that they'll come to a [56:36] door and they'll be like hey you know I'm a leader of the neighbor Association and I want to invite you to the flamingo [56:41] Thursday and the person's like well I'm just our ventor right that's their response they've already decided that [56:46] they're not part of it and so the neighborhood has a chance to like say no actually you are regardless if you're [56:52] renting or you own in this neighborhood come to Flamingo Thursday so it's kind of the feet that are out there um that [56:58] are making some of those concrete connections and then fostering those relationships right that I do on a regular [57:04] basis and helping them get information disseminated they become kind of ambassad a little bit like ambassadors [57:11] um they're like like going through better together they're like watching Scott's Friday report and they're taking [57:16] the information that's most important and they're trying to disseminate and get out information if they see a sign out there about some project that's [57:22] happening I'm the first person that's called and like hey who's the person I need to connect with like often times [57:28] like we just had one with a sidewalk thing and engineer like Andrew you got to get some information to them because [57:34] they are interested and it's not necessarily for us to decide it's our job to communicate with them and give them the information so A Better [57:40] Together has been successful for that that's why you can see our registrations are high right on recognized neighborhoods um and they tend to be the [57:47] ones that are more engaged um but that doesn't I don't know if it's a egg before the chicken like are they more [57:53] engaged because they're a recognized neighborhood are they more likely to be become recognized because they are engaged too and we know that we [57:59] potentially have like an equity component here with our recognized neighborhoods um they tend to some most [58:05] of them are in neighborhoods that have higher home values um maybe a little bit less diverse by looking at the slide [58:11] that's up there as well the apartment complexes I'm offering way more information than I initially said I was [58:17] going to but the apartment complexes um I've had interest right saltdale it's you are right it's really hard because [58:23] how does a person feel like I'm part of this big area that you have all these Silo buildings um and so that's been [58:29] kind of a struggle um to also help them get organized even for like Jan Tui [58:35] lived in that neighborhood and her and I have talked multiple times about like because she wanted to she wanted to [58:40] connect with the people around her but it's it's kind of hard so and and do people have time so sorry I offered a [58:48] little bit more want to cover your other couple slides quick oh [58:53] yeah for the end of that think about just think what thought now but it's not just [59:03] shouldn't be just about interaction with government and interaction the city [59:09] hall there are lots of ways to feel like you belong to community and probably [59:14] most of them have nothing to do with City Hall but City Hall could be a facilitator in so many ways of things [59:21] that could help people feel like they're getting involved in something want to be [59:26] part of the community I don't know exactly how but uh anyway just a g we do [59:32] have a lot of grass R organizations out there um I think we're leaving that last conversation as we're not totally done [59:39] with the conversation or however that's okay okay the two of you answered my [59:45] concerns okay so yeah um okay so just this is a reminder [59:50] about kind of some of the changes that are coming up with that um goal alignment and changing some of the work plan process um um so our objectives [59:57] that we set out to do was to align our work with City council's Vision enhance um our budget integration so when we're [1:00:03] doing our prioritization and working on our items that we're going to work on we know budget as well improve long-term [1:00:09] planning that's why we're making some adjust adjustments to the two-year work plan which means the commissions as well [1:00:15] um have a framework for that prioritization so that we can definitely organize our work and make sure we have [1:00:20] the resources and then we talked a lot about invisio like enhancing the transparency and making sure that we're [1:00:26] getting some information to the public um this you have seen before many times [1:00:31] um how we kind of look at our work plans I don't have the visual yet um but I [1:00:37] kind of took what was in my head and tried to put oh I'm sorry and tried to put on a slide for you guys and I can [1:00:43] explain it to you so we have our guiding Vision so it looks similar it's similar in concept to what you saw before with [1:00:49] just a few adjustments and also moving to that two-year work plan um guiding Vision documents on the top including [1:00:54] our vision d values and comprehensive plan that second tier are budget pillars [1:01:00] so the budget pillars that exist on that weave that you see up on the wall as well um underneath that is the budget [1:01:07] that's um a two-year work plan or two years budget work plan which are two years um we do have a capital [1:01:12] Improvement that six years but we do update every two years and other plans the other plans that exist are going to [1:01:17] be like our climate action plan our upcoming Equity strategic action plan as well the reason that I kind of like put [1:01:23] a circle around is they kind of an iterative process like they're informing each other to figure out what actually we're going to prioritize and what we're [1:01:29] going to do they're shaded yellow to gray because in addition like if you think about the climate action plan [1:01:35] they've got their nine themes right their priorities in addition to that they've got a whole bunch of actions [1:01:40] that they're taking um and actually doing as well you will find those actually when they come into our [1:01:46] operational plans um so here's where we're going to make a couple changes we do have a Citywide goals that is an [1:01:51] internal um document as well that will move to two years our department work plans are going to move to two years and [1:01:57] then what's most important for you to know is that those commission work plans are going to move to two years oh [1:02:03] apologies um you would have saw this on the report when we finalized this let you know that we're going to um organize [1:02:10] it by two groups so we'll have every year four commissions um coming to city council to talk more about developing a [1:02:17] two-year work plan to start thinking longterm and more of like a phased approach maybe that first year is a [1:02:23] studying report that second year maybe we shift them to like okay now dig a little bit deeper and find us some [1:02:28] recommendations things that you think we actually could do can you remind me does this change when people get appointed to [1:02:35] boards as well and commissions it does not okay so yeah that sequence does the [1:02:40] same okay thank you yep um so here's those changes twoyear work plans two [1:02:47] groups repurpose The Joint work session so this is kind of the bigger one um and be refocus focused for more [1:02:53] collaborative workpl development so what this this means that joint work session um this is for um the folks is that the [1:03:01] purpose of the joint work session is to have a focus discussion around the development to work plan and that the initiative should be aligned with the [1:03:06] city strategic goals so this is going to be a little bit shiff for you if you recall when commissions came to you they [1:03:12] were providing you a progress report or like what have they accomplished for the year sometimes they'd sneak in [1:03:17] conversations about what maybe we could work on or other things that they were interested in um but ideal but that [1:03:24] really was purposed for a progress report going to shift that now we're going to talk about what's ahead versus what is necessarily behind us what are [1:03:31] we going to do next um Your Role when this happens in the summer is going to be um providing Direction on initiatives [1:03:38] for the development of the commission's workpl and keeping in mind the Strategic goals that you want to accomplish [1:03:44] through our budget Strate or pillars values Etc um staff's role we're going to provide feedback we we'll still bring [1:03:51] out the technical expertise and we will be considering the resource Financial impacts project overlap in scope of work [1:03:57] so we'll have to bring the like the reality to some of the work plan initiatives um commission's role so they [1:04:03] are going to bring you know input on the community needs and concerns things that they think are happening out there that might be important for them to tackle [1:04:10] and to bring those forward to you as well and have a conversation about them so that is the change of the joint work [1:04:16] session and kind of the expectations for that night we will remind you again closer or that night as well can you [1:04:22] remind them when the joint work sessions are and then which of the commissions are first oh yes um so they can start [1:04:29] thinking in their heads yep so um the commissions The Joint work sessions are [1:04:35] going to be in the in the summer so they're going to be with between June and August and the commissions you'll [1:04:40] meet with the this year in 2025 Our Heritage preservation commission energy [1:04:45] and environment commission the Transportation Commission and the um Planning Commission the other [1:04:51] commissions will do we'll have a opportunity for them to come to you and actually just do an up date on their current work plan and see if we need to [1:04:58] make any small adjustments but they won't develop a full two-year work plan they'll just maybe modify for that [1:05:03] second year and they'll have their chance to come to you in 2026 is there any leeway if you know a [1:05:11] twoyear span is a much longer span yeah and so say something an opportunity [1:05:17] comes up that would be great for e but they've just had their meeting a month [1:05:23] ago so what then is it are you saying if it's something from city council that [1:05:28] you want to or is it something coming from them um coming from them or I mean okay okay [1:05:35] let's pretend there's all these federal grants that suddenly happen um you know in the future [1:05:43] and you know they've met and then suddenly There's an opportunity from the state or the federal you know is there [1:05:50] flexibility that they could you know yes part of doing this is that midyear [1:05:55] modification ations are going to be a little bit more flexible um at any point city council can decide that something [1:06:00] might take priority right on a work plan um and in addition to that there's updated Council charges to make sure [1:06:08] that there's a good uh communication methodology that if they kind of finish a phase they can maybe move to that next [1:06:14] phase and talk it through with city council as well but this will be a less iterative process since it's going to be [1:06:20] two years instead of one I I would say I actually look at it as more inative [1:06:26] process because of because of sitting down and having the conversation of what to put on a a work plan I mean right now [1:06:33] the only thing you do is you get what they propos and there isn't a lot of rebuttal I feel like this gives them a [1:06:38] chance to really say this is what we think should work on and you to say this is really what we think you guys should consider and put on your work plan okay [1:06:47] yeah there's more of a conversation versus just a report out of progress to you it'll be less process heavy though [1:06:54] because they'll have like right now we spend 6 months working on putting together a plan and then we turn around and we do it again in 6 months so it's [1:07:02] giving a little bit more time for things to get flushed out before you guys see it [1:07:09] again that makes sense and this is okay this is I don't know how I got from this [1:07:15] issue to another issue but I did um and I think it had to do with the whole idea [1:07:20] of processes being it iterative and Community being involved in all of that [1:07:26] and um just getting the the trust and the communication flowing and thinking [1:07:32] about um Tiff projects and specifically the France Avenue underpass and we [1:07:38] haven't had any public iterative process regarding that really I mean there's [1:07:44] been stuff on better together but there hasn't been an opportunity for a public hearing so people can hear from each [1:07:51] other and all of that and there probably never will be but I don't know why did you say that yeah just because part of [1:07:58] the plan okay that's what we decided to do this year [1:08:03] so all right I was thinking there was going to be a community meeting but not necessarily a public hearing but that's [1:08:09] great well I have a public hearing when there's a topic to have a hearing on [1:08:15] right or okay but a part of the conversation that we talked about was establishing the entirety Community [1:08:21] engagement process of what we wanted that to look like so it just felt kind of dismissive sorry for you to say and [1:08:27] that will probably never happen like you're assuming we're just going to go forward with something and not engage the [1:08:32] community what is okay I'm going to say it better what is our community engagement process for that topic I [1:08:40] don't think it's been fully defined yet but the ask was made for a strategy to come [1:08:47] forward okay so when are we going to get information about that [1:08:53] strategy not sure find out from Bill yeah what did you say find out [1:09:00] bill in terms of he's got some understanding of timelines that we don't [1:09:05] have right here but yeah okay so if we could get a report sure [1:09:10] and like do I need to say formally like within the next month this formal enough [1:09:16] yeah okay yeah we can do it all right okay I'm sorry I didn't mean to [1:09:21] sound dismissive I just kind of feel like I want to know [1:09:26] like when it'll happen yeah yeah thank you for having the [1:09:32] conversation I appreciate it all right everyone drive safely when they go [1:09:39] home oh yeah has it started [1:09:46] snow I can see it it is s from here it's slow oh it looks like