[0:02] he welcome to the May 22nd 2024 meeting of the Adina Planning Commission the [0:08] city is committed to continuing to receive and hear your input on matters we have been collecting public [0:14] input through voicemail and our engagement website betterto together.org it is important you know that all [0:20] comments have been submitted have been received and read prior to the start of this meeting you do not need to submit [0:26] the same feedback in another way all feedback is considered equally regardless of the way in which it was [0:32] submitted tonight there are two public hearings individuals who want to provide testimony remotely for the public [0:38] hearings can call 312 535 8110 and enter access code 2631 [0:47] 711 5389 the password is [0:52] 5454 press star three on your telephone keypad when you would like to get in the queue to speak a staff member will [0:59] unmute you when it is your turn please State your full name and address before speaking and everyone is allowed up to [1:05] three minutes to speak remember you do not need to call in or comment live tonight if you have [1:11] already provided feedback also do not repeat information already presented [1:16] provide testimony if you have new comments or information to bring [1:22] forward okay call to order roll call [1:28] commissioner Aly here commissioner Pia here commissioner who here commissioner [1:33] Schultz here commissioner day here commissioner Fel here commissioner [1:38] hanaman here Vice chair Miranda [1:45] here okay our first item um our next item is the approval of the meeting [1:50] agenda do I have a motion to approve the agenda motion to approve second all in [1:56] favor say I I I he motion [2:02] carries um next item is approval of meeting minutes um the meeting minutes were for [2:07] the April 11th 2024 special work session and the May 8th regular meeting do we [2:12] have a motion to approve the minutes motion to approve the meeting minutes a second second all in favor say [2:21] I I okay approval of meeting minutes uh [2:27] meeting minutes are approved okay [2:32] next up is community comment we will now hear from residents [2:38] in person who would like to speak about something not on tonight's agenda or scheduled for a future public hearing [2:44] you may speak for up to three minutes after giving your full name and address the green light of your Podium will turn [2:52] on when you have 30 seconds remaining the yellow light will turn on and when you're out of time the red light will [2:58] turn on anyone here in person for [3:04] a come [3:10] forward uh my name is David Frankl 4510 like Drive Edina uh couple comments [3:17] about planning and zoning I I moved here from Reston Virginia which is generally [3:23] considered to be the first plan community in the United States it is roughly the same demographics as a and [3:30] to be honest when I moved here about 14 years ago a shock to how Dina virtually [3:35] does no zoning or planning it's it was amazing to me compared to Reston which I said is planned along with Columbia [3:41] Maryland which was a sister Community about the same time the other issue I like to bring up [3:48] is the city of Edina as you're probably well aware of belongs to the National League of cities Edina sends pretty big [3:55] contingencies of staff and elected officials to these meetings every year [4:00] the national league of cities has a website you can look up and it encourages cities to use data and [4:06] evidence and decisionmaking when I go through all the various decision making that's done in this city in this [4:12] building I see very little data being used very little evidence it's a lot of we need it we want it let's do it it's [4:18] not a way to run any organization I listened to a presentation by the head of New York State procurement this whole [4:25] conversation was about a DAT data analytics how we use data to make decision decisions and what are we doing [4:31] here in Idina we have no data person we don't have any data analytics we don't use data enough in our decision making [4:38] the other thing is tax increment financing there's absolutely no reason the city of VI should be using Tiff it's [4:44] had an impact on the D Public Schools who are now running a deficit the HRA really should have a person from the [4:51] school board on the HRA Group which is perfectly legal it's done in gr Force [4:57] North Dakota which is the home city of our mayor hubin why it's not being done any the din is beyond me but that's [5:03] beyond the scope of this but the Tiff we have three basically dead Tiff districts Ding and a fourth that's struggling one [5:10] that's close to the City Hall Grand View which has been empty for 15 years because of Tiff and Tiff money was used [5:18] to make a bridge that's right now under federal investigation for not being ADA Compliant again data evidence was this [5:25] going to be ADA Compliant when it was built I asked for a render ing before it was built I never received it through a [5:33] legal data request the city's got to wake up and use Planning and Zoning the [5:38] correct way thank you thank you for your [5:43] comments anyone else here make [5:48] comment no okay um we'll move on then to uh uh [5:56] we have two public hearings tonight the first one is about a front yard setback variance for [6:01] 4619 town circle and Chris AER will present from [6:07] the city [6:35] chair members of the Planning Commission this is a request for a 15.7 foot front [6:40] yard setb back variance at 4619 town circle the subject property is located [6:47] south of town circle and the easterly lot line kind of wraps into a [6:56] cuaac the property is approximately 188,00 64 Square ft in area and um the [7:03] ex the existing structure is a two-story home built in 1939 with an attached [7:09] undersight garage the garage loads off of um sort of that Eastern portion of [7:15] the lot which is backing up to the cult sack this is a survey recent survey of [7:22] the property and it also includes the proposed addition that is requesting a [7:28] variance uh the house fronts are faces North along town circle with the [7:33] existing garage loading off of the culdesac um because this is an undersized two-car garage they would [7:40] like to add on uh a garage that would accommodate uh the vehicles that they [7:45] have as well as storage uh they will also putting some living space above it [7:50] is attached to the house so it is an addition to uh the single dwelling unit [7:55] there will be a Breezeway out to uh the garage area area what you will notice is that this [8:03] line is indicating the required front yard setback the front yard setback is [8:08] determined by the average of the front yard of the home on either side so you [8:14] have a front yard setback to the West that is much closer and then the setback [8:21] that is to the east is much further back so that results in a an average front [8:27] yard setback of a approximately 35.7 ft and the existing home is at roughly [8:36] 21 a little over 21 ft to the front lot line so you can see that you know [8:41] there's a large portion of the house that is currently non-conforming um they would like to add [8:47] that garage um so that it again loads off of the culdesac um unfortunately the [8:54] angle of that front yard setback Cuts deeply into the lot uh limiting opportunity to locate a garage um also [9:03] there is a significant difference in grade from the front of the lot to the back it starts it's it's relatively flat [9:11] in the front yard but then as you get in the backyard it slopes up significantly the difference in uh grade from town [9:19] circle to the back lot line is anywhere from 28 to 30 [9:25] feet so this is the compliance table based on the existing and proposed [9:31] conditions it meets all of the requirements with the exception of the front the city standard which is the [9:37] average of the homes on either side for front yard setback the current or existing front yard setback of the home [9:44] is 21.7 feet it would be reduced to 20 feet to allow for that garage uh [9:50] addition um they actually had a um proposed a closer garage to the culdesac [9:58] um it was recommended by staff that they back it up to at least the minimum side [10:04] street setback that would be required for a typical corner lot which is 20 feet um it is still short of their [10:11] existing non-conforming setback so this is a partial of the [10:16] existing main level it shows the existing garage um there's no dimensions [10:21] on it but it is it is a tight two-car garage this would be the addition they [10:27] would convert that um existing garage into a family room they would extend uh [10:32] a mud room and a Breezeway to accommodate that new garage that would [10:38] allow for the storage of both cars and then they would also have um a room [10:44] above which um would be an amusement room um this would be the north [10:50] elevation the elevation would be facing the culdesac and then the side elevations [10:56] what you'll notice is that there is a significant grade difference between the front of the garage and the back of the garage it's about 11 and 1/2 ft [11:03] difference um so then this is actually a view if you were looking at the uh [11:10] inside wall towards the house or towards the um patio that's behind the house and [11:17] you can see that there's this retaining wall um holding up the back um yard that [11:26] is currently much higher as you go further back into the backyard [11:32] um and here's a view of the back of that in that Amusement room that's above the [11:38] garage so you can see that there there's a significant difference in grade uh [11:43] from front to back this is that backyard area you can see the retaining wall that's holding up [11:50] that back um area behind the existing patio that's there and then uh the [11:57] garage would be located within in this area so here's some different views of [12:03] that addition it's meant to be um matching to the house and in [12:12] character this is that back view of the amusement room that's above the garage [12:17] um the grade is is really at the level of where you would walk out and then this is A View From The [12:25] Patio is a little below there that steps down shows the retaining wall that um is [12:31] behind the patio that's currently behind the house and some more views of [12:41] project along the culdesac and then the front of the [12:50] house so um is it reasonable for the request [12:56] and um are the practical difficulties that are associated with the property [13:01] the proposed use is permitted in the R1 single dwelling unit district complies with all the zoning ordinance [13:06] requirements with the exception of the setback of the new garage to the lot [13:11] line along the cuac the topography along the back wall of the structure the South part combined with the larger setback [13:19] requirements or average of the abing structures at cues act presents a practical difficulty the neighbor to the [13:26] west is set back 21.8 ft which is is um basically aligned with the front of the [13:32] of the subject house but the East uh property is set back 49.6 feet um [13:39] requiring that average setback of over 35 feet um that is severely impacting um [13:46] opportunity on the lot to add on um they are requesting a 20 foot setback which [13:51] is the minimum setback for the a a garage on a typical side street it would [13:57] um correct extraordinary circumstances the proposed addition is reasonable due to the existing home's not conforming [14:03] front yard setback and the Topography of the lot the home will be remodeled and modified with the existing proposed [14:09] setbacks consistent with the typical corner lot with that 20 foot setback from the side street to the garage [14:16] opening the property slopes up again uh about 28 to 30 feet from the front or uh [14:23] where the street is all the way to the back lot line and there are [14:29] circumstances that are unique to the property and not common to similarly zoned property the existing house has a [14:35] non-conforming setback and was built prior to the current ordinance requirements there have been no variances granted for the original [14:41] construction of the home so it conformed at the time in 1938 when it was built [14:47] the proposed additions will conform to all other zoning [14:52] standards and the topography in the rear yard again pushes the usable yard um [14:57] North or Northwest away from the culdesac um it had had it [15:03] been a typical side yard again um this wouldn't be an issue the average setback helps to negate a proposed structure [15:10] from encroaching on an abing neighbor's front yard in this case the neighbor to the west would be minimally impacted if [15:17] at all as the structure is offset from the proposed addition and there um is [15:22] Landscaping excuse me in distance between the two uh will the variance alter the essential character granting [15:27] the variances will not alter the essential character of the neighborhood the additions will match the existing home setback um and the typical setbacks [15:35] along side street all the other aspects of the home will conform to the requirements and the garages of similar [15:42] design to the existing house staff does recommend approval um all the [15:53] um would recommend approval based on um the subject to the following condition [15:59] conditions of the survey and plans date stamped May 3rd 2024 compliance with the [16:04] conditions and comments listed in the environmental Engineers memo in compliance with the tree [16:10] ordinance with that um I will say that there were quite a few comments that came in from Better Together Idina there [16:17] were some uh phone messages all of them were positive and from uh neighbors [16:23] within the neighborhood and both adjacent neighbors um also supported the request um and then and we do have uh [16:30] the contractor um for the property that is here to represent the homeowners with [16:36] that I will stop and answer any questions you may have great thank you very much great [16:42] presentation do uh any commission members have [16:47] questions David thanks for the presentation the can you just spend a minute on the you [16:54] mentioned the corner lot setbacks and the staff report mentioned some things [17:00] about side street versus Front Street does this really qualify for either a [17:06] side street or a corner lot it does not but in terms of looking at it as um if [17:13] it were a corner lot just because there is that home that is located at the end of the culdesac it's very far back if it [17:20] were a typical side street if there were no home there it would be a 20 foot step back okay so it's a point of reference [17:27] for something similar but not the same correct it's very similar but not the [17:32] same you any other [17:44] questions does does the um uh homeowner or architect want to [17:51] State anything or okay um so so we have public hearing [18:00] first and then questions yeah [18:05] okay we will now hear excuse me from residents who would like to provide [18:10] testimony oh I guess I need to open the public hearing opening public [18:16] hearing do you need a motion for that no okay all right um we will now hear from [18:22] residents who would like to provide testimony individuals who want to provide input remotely for the public hearings can call 312 [18:30] 535 8110 and enter access code 26 [18:35] 31711 5389 the password is 5454 press star three on your telephone [18:43] keypad when you would like to get into the queue to speak callers if you're watching the [18:48] meeting on any of the device or television please mute that before speaking well nobody's watching right [18:54] okay um when you hear the prompt in your telephone that you've been muted please begin speaking by giving your name and [19:00] address for the record you will have three minutes to speak remember it is not necessary to provide testimony if you've already [19:06] provided comments via voicemail or bet together.org call in if you have new [19:12] comments or information to bring forward does anyone want to speak in [19:21] person there anyone here to speak no [19:29] okay are we gonna wait a minute for callers or we do have one person who has [19:35] indicated they would like to speak so I'm going to go ahead and unmute [19:42] them yes my name is Lori gr 5513 Parkplace I'm not making a comment on [19:49] this particular public hearing but are you aware that your meeting is not being [19:55] live streamed tonight on the city website watch meeting or onina [20:01] Facebook I can answer that yes this is Lauren cenal we are having some major technical issues tonight um we are [20:08] recording the meeting and it will be live it will be on our website [20:13] tomorrow all right thank you somebody might want to put that on the website in [20:19] case people are trying to get on to watch so but I have no comment uh on the [20:25] public hearing thank you I just wanted to make you aware of um that there's an issue with your live stream thank [20:33] you thank you very much anyone else in [20:41] line no we do not have anyone else who wishes to speak um I believe it's safe [20:47] to proceed okay great thank you all right do we have a motion to close the public hearing so moved second second [20:55] okay all in favor say I I I okay public hearing is [21:04] closed all right back to the commission any uh who has comments questions for [21:10] the uh applicant or sure I just have one quick question for the for the applicant [21:16] is there a is there a reason why uh it needs to be 20 ft rather than [21:24] even 21.7 ft which it is today is there a reason why it needs to get even 2 feet more than it already is [21:31] nonconforming I can answer that so um initially when we came to staff we actually asked for 15 and it was through [21:37] conversations with them that we came up with the 20 feet and the biggest reason is the further we push this into the hill the more Excavating that has to [21:43] happen on the backside and the more we impact the trees that are kind of the great big old growth trees that are on [21:50] the back side of this property because of the steep slope so you know it it's [21:56] possible we can push it back a little bit but it's going to start to take out more trees as we go further [22:02] back okay thank [22:08] you um can you introduce yourself and say your name for the record uh Dan Dees [22:14] I'm with Murphy and codesign 235 Lake Street East y Zetta [22:20] Minnesota and I noticed on there that you also have kind of a water control [22:26] plan and you have a trench from the driveway so you're planning on controlling [22:32] some yes that's a requirement from the city but also just due to the Steep nature of the site it's definitely a [22:39] concern um and currently the water all runs behind the house to get out um so [22:44] we're working on that as part of this project as well and kind of keeping it on your site and off the neighbor site [22:51] yep there's an infiltration Basin um that was designed by the storm water engineer and can I ask one more question [22:58] about the um on the site plan the house to the West there's one there's the [23:04] setback and shows a portion of the house but that is most of the house is even further back than that if I was looking [23:11] on the GPS yeah so the property to the West it's actually a pretty similar house to this one kind of right in line [23:18] with it um and we're not changing kind of that front line it's just the 20 ft [23:25] is because the culdesac cuts in on the back the garage is almost entirely behind the house the current house the [23:32] grage you designed is behind this current house yeah [23:40] okay any other comments or questions [23:47] deliberations yeah deliberations that is the time to speak [23:59] well as as I was reading through this [24:04] um you know one the and there was one comment we don't necessarily I do [24:10] appreciate the comments from Neighbors um and we don't you know [24:15] usually um have them um [24:22] well I'm going to not worry about that but there was one comment by a neighbor which I really appreciated and that is [24:27] the fact that this addition really works seamlessly with this house um and I do appreciate it [24:34] that it's set back from the existing house and that it has a lower roof than this existing house um so this is a [24:42] front yard set back um you know it's another one of those where it's the average of all the houses on the street [24:48] they're all really large Lots um you're nowhere near the coverage ratio or even [24:55] the hard cover ratio on the site it is heavily wooded site you're saving the [25:01] existing house um and it's still a 20ft setback so um I think this is and [25:08] they're also controlling water runoff on the property I mean it's not just controlling it they putting a trench in the front which I really kind of [25:14] appreciate um so I think this house is um you know [25:21] there's a practical difficulty the steepness of the lot [25:26] um the existing garage is smaller than average [25:33] um and I think this is a perfectly good use of the variant setback we did a [25:39] variant setback last week um for a house on an existing foundation [25:47] and I think this is this is a good use of our the variance process so I support [25:54] this any other comments do I have motion [25:59] I'll just say it's this Project's very similar to one that we reviewed in the Rolling Green neighborhood few months ago right and it [26:07] just kind of highlights the difficulties that we get into when we start introducing means and averages into calculations for setbacks um right the [26:14] intent is right just to maintain a uniformity in the appearance of the neighborhood the neighbors all support this the problem is when you have the [26:20] mean and average and you get an outlier than everybody else is negatively impacted right but I don't think that [26:26] anything we're doing here again it alter's the essential character of the neighborhood we've talked about the [26:31] difficulty with the slope um the shape of the culdesac ETC [26:36] so I mean I think this like commissioner commissioner felt said um pretty easily [26:42] meets the requirements you know being a Justified variance [26:54] so so make a motion to approve a 172t front front yard setback variance request at 4619 town circle subject to [27:02] conditions set out in the staff report second any discussion anyone [27:09] wants no okay then uh Voice vote [27:14] or all in favor say I I I okay motion [27:21] approves [27:26] congratulations okay okay our next public hearing is a preliminary zoning [27:32] preliminary rezoning overall development plan site plan and subdivision for 7235 [27:38] France Avenue and Carrie T community development director will [27:44] present uh thank you chair members of the commission this is a site you're all familiar with the applicant has gone [27:51] through a couple of versions of sketch plans over the past year it's the uh [27:56] Macy's furniture site in the greater Southdale District on the east side of [28:02] France this the site is guided in our comprehensive plan for as Community [28:07] activity center it's that area in between France and York where the city [28:13] envisions some of its most dense development in the city in the comprehensive plan it's currently zoned [28:20] PCD 3 planned commercial District a look at the existing site [28:26] today it's the the furniture store is about 990,000 square fet with a large [28:32] surface parking lot so here's a look at the first sketch plan the idea here is to divide the [28:39] property into four Parcels with four buildings provide public space all [28:45] around each of the buildings provide a connection from the prominade to France [28:51] so again here is that first version the second version um they came [28:58] came back when the the city started talking about providing a connection for [29:04] from this site that we're looking at today and the future development of the 7200 and [29:11] 7250 um to the west where that site sits vacant today so they adjusted their [29:18] plans to accommodate either going underneath France or over so however [29:25] Direction the city decides to take the proposal for you this evening can accommodate either [29:31] option so some of the changes that they've made based on the feedback from [29:36] the Planning Commission and city council from those original sketch plans they've [29:42] increased the setback from the prominade some of those first versions were just 15 feet it's now uh 34 35 feet uh the [29:51] celf setbacks have increased again to shift that East West pedestrian [29:57] connection a little bit to the north uh they've shifted the 11 story building to [30:02] the northwest or excuse me the Southwest lot um the height still I'll show a [30:08] graphic in a minute doesn't meet our setback requirement to the R1 District uh they've reduced some of the [30:16] um above ground above ground uh parking levels they've added Green Building [30:22] walls added public art um they are meeting the or they will meet the city's [30:27] sustainable buildings policy 5% of the parking stalls will be EV uh charging [30:33] stations with the ability to upgrade to 10% they're would be utilizing solar [30:39] panels affordable housing would be provided in the development and they've reduced some of [30:45] the office space and there's more residential units so here's a look at the proposed site plan so I'll just go [30:54] through each one quickly here so the Southwest parcel this one here this is the 11 story 155 [31:01] foot tall mixed use building it would have uh just over 47,000 square feet of [31:07] office there would be 49 senior condominiums those would be owner [31:13] occupied so that is a change from sketch plan as well um part of those owner occupied units [31:20] would be affordable as well 10% there would be um a 9,000 square ft of retail [31:27] in a restaurant on the main level and 28 uh 280 stall parking garage [31:33] underneath the Northwest parcel would be seven stories again a mixed use building 20,000 square [31:40] fet of office 124 apartments and just under 8,000 square feet of retail there' [31:48] be 318 parking stalls within that that within that building moving to the [31:55] Northeast this both of these buildings on on the east side would be seven stories uh this northeast would have 223 [32:03] units of rental apart uh rental apartments with parking underneath the [32:08] southeast parcel uh would include 176 units 4,000 square ft of a retail and a [32:16] restaurant so there'll be three restaurants within the buildings um and a 380 stall parking [32:23] garage so just I'll just quickly move through some of the building renderings the applicant will provide much more [32:30] detail on building materials they have a video that shows um shows the project in [32:36] a little more detail so I will move through these uh rather [32:42] quickly so this request requires a preliminary rezoning from PCD 3 to [32:49] planned unit development um that would include an overall development plan the idea here I [32:55] believe is to build all of this in one phase um but the Pud would be used to [33:01] ensure the affordable housing is included within the project also [33:06] um provide us the ability to require meeting the sustainable buildings [33:11] policy um in return they're asking for flexibility in the some of the [33:17] underlying zoning standards and I'll go through that in a minute and they also a preliminary site plan and subdivision [33:24] and preliminary plat that would establish individual lots for each [33:31] building so review of the parking um and the site plan looking at the overall [33:36] parking based on the uses and square footage they're required [33:43] 1,339 parking stalls or excuse me 1,117 parking stalls and they're [33:49] providing uh 1300 so a little over um what's required but they do meet that [33:55] standard WSB conduct Ed a parking study and they've concluded that they would need 1,041 stalls um for this project so [34:05] there would be adequate parking uh WSB also did a traffic study and they concluded that um no roadway [34:12] improvements are needed with this project they are on the line with us this evening should there be any uh [34:18] questions in regard to that traffic study access to the site would be off [34:23] the existing access points one along the north lot line as as it comes in there [34:28] would be a north south um Road constructed that would all and they [34:34] would also utilize that existing access to the South access to the buildings would be off that North South Street [34:41] this location and this location here and again The Pedestrian connections are [34:48] kind of the the feature of the project 50 foot set back along France it expands [34:53] to a little over 60 feet to the South but with that sidewalk sidewalks along [34:58] the building um there is a regional bike trail that moves through uh they've [35:04] indicated a willingness to expand the width of that subject to approval of the [35:09] district they are providing some connections to the prominade and again the main feature um connecting to either [35:17] that underground under France or a bridge over in regard to Landscaping based on [35:25] the perimeter of this site 6 one overstory trees are required they're proposing they would be planting 142 39 [35:34] trees would be removed but they're replacing over 400 calip per inch of trees so um many more trees compared to [35:42] existing conditions terms of building [35:47] material um it would be manufactured Stone um metal panels um again the applicant [35:57] will go through in more detail of uh the building materials but they are requesting flexibility from our [36:03] standards the the Brick and Stone around the buildings varies between 20 and [36:09] 72% of that first 60 foot height requirement around the [36:15] buildings um and the transparency requirement at ground level ranges [36:20] between 60 and 75% so they're not quite meeting the 75 so they're requesting some [36:26] flexibility there as well and the first level um the first level story The the [36:34] first level height they're requesting at 15 feet where the code requires [36:42] 20 and terms of the subdivision this is the preliminary plat again establishing [36:48] New Lots uh for each building there is a park dedication requirement of $5,000 [36:53] per unit that would be collected at the time of a building permit [36:58] and setbacks I mentioned they are requesting flexibility to the required setbacks setbacks they're meeting the [37:05] front setback along France at 50 feet but all other sides the requirement is based on the height of the building so [37:13] they're requesting flexibility there I mentioned the R1 setback I'll show a [37:18] graphic that shows that in a minute the building height overlay here is 8 stories and 96 ft so they're requesting [37:26] that 11 story building building that's at 155 ft uh flexibility and the floor [37:31] area ratio requirement and then I mentioned the transparency and first floor Building height so this is a [37:38] graphic that demonstrates the setbacks so again 34 feet to the prominade be [37:44] about 40 feet to the trail the the pathway at the prominade 49 feet to the [37:50] south 20 to the North Lot line there would be a 60ft setback in between in [37:56] between the building over 100t to the South and then I mentioned the the France [38:03] setbacks so we um that measurement to the nearest R1 District based on the [38:10] height of the the building they need a nine times the height of the of the building um so they need a 930 foot [38:18] setback to the nearest R1 property which is located here and it's a little under [38:24] 800 ft so they're requesting flexibility again through the [38:29] Pud so the primary issue for the the Planning Commission is is this proposal [38:34] reasonable to justify the Pud rezoning so an argument can be made either way um [38:41] so staff has prepared alternatives for the Planning Commission to consider in your staff report both for approval and [38:49] denial again this is our pit of discretion that we look at they're requesting a rezoning so we're down into [38:56] the green area where the city has complete discretion whether to approve or deny this [39:03] request uh but staff is recommending approval we believe that the Pud criteria is met so I will move through [39:11] each of those nine standards where the code says the purpose and intent of the Pud is to include most or all of those [39:21] standards so the first is uh providing the establishment of a PUD in an [39:26] appropriate setting so again the comprehensive plan calls this a community Activity Center maximum [39:34] density allowed here is up to 150 units an acre when the greater Southdale [39:40] working group worked on the Southdale District plan one of their overarching objectives is highlighted here this is [39:47] taken from from that plan the objective is to maximize pedestrian activity [39:53] throughout the district with the public realm as the connective tissue that gives the district its unique identity [39:59] and sets the stage for a remarkable daily experience for those who live work and play in the greater Southdale [40:07] District again they envisioned a vibrant forward-looking people filled greater [40:12] Southdale District um 45% of [40:19] this all of this public all of the area where the the uh the trails the the [40:26] connection through the site that makes up 45% of this entire site that would all be dedicated for public [40:35] use uh the second is uh promote a more creative and efficient approach to land [40:40] use um this would create a much more creative efficient use of the land compared to existing uh there's no [40:47] surface parking that's another one of the goals of the uh sdale District [40:52] guidelines um pedestrian movement being key throughout the site [40:58] um and again we talked about the Three Rivers Trail potential upgrade there uh [41:03] the third provide for variations to the strict application of land use uh [41:09] regulations in order to improve site design some of the desired elements that [41:14] we're looking for would include sustainable design uh greater utilization of Technologies and building [41:21] design special construction materials Landscaping uh lighting Etc [41:27] so with this is kind of gets into that give to get um as part of that PD [41:34] negotiating so what the city's getting out of out of this is um one including U [41:41] the affordable housing they would meet the affordable housing policy within the project so all of the units would be [41:47] included in the development that would include 53 rental units um and five for [41:53] sale condos um those senior condos so that's a housing type that we've not [41:59] seen owner occupied uh housing in quite some time um again the parking is all [42:05] underground no surface parking and probably the biggest one is that 45% [42:10] dedication to the public for use moving through the [42:16] site uh some of the additional um requirements ensured high quality design [42:22] so again this is going to be required to meet our sustainable buildings policy above and beyond beond a standard um [42:29] what the building code allows so that adds quite an expense to the project um [42:35] again that traffic study was done there's no impact or improvements needed [42:40] in the roadways around the area and I mentioned the um increased uh trees that [42:47] would be planted on the site this is a true mixed use project this is kind of what we're looking for with the Pud [42:53] where we've getting a variety of of uses on the site I mentioned the affordable [42:59] housing um so with that staff is recommending [43:05] approval subject to the findings and conditions that are outlined in your staff report but there is also if the um [43:12] Planning Commission does not believe that those PUD standards are met there is an option for denial as well with [43:19] that I can stand for questions and the development team is ready to make a presentation to provide a little more [43:24] detail on the project thank you for that great presentation any uh questions [43:32] yes har somewhere in the packet there were there were two things that caught [43:38] my eye from I think what it was referencing was the changes from the 2023 plan to the current one one was [43:47] above ground garage at the Northwest building reduced from four levels to [43:52] one yeah I think that goes to there's less Office Space so an office space drives more um need [44:01] for parking so they've added more residential so the amount of parking was [44:06] reduced and was that the discussion at the time to R the feedback was to reduce the [44:13] amount of office space I'm not sure if that was specifically mentioned other than [44:21] trying to minimize the visibility of the parking and reduce parking if possible [44:26] got it okay thanks anyone [44:33] else okay um there's a lot to unpack on this one uh try as I may I wasn't able to [44:41] scan every single detail with 674 page packet in three days but so I'll need [44:47] some help on this one a little bit in terms of uh some of the questions that I had and some of the questions our [44:53] residents brought up um traffic right the traffic study uh could you or traffic people the you [45:01] said the Traffic Engineers were on the phone BR hoping they're there [45:06] yeah could you have them summarize a little bit um some of the key finding and stuff from that traffic study right [45:12] I look through it and I know you know there was no recommendation for additional Road improvements and whatnot [45:17] um but I'd like to hear at least summarized especially for the people in the audience um what what they found [45:27] you can hear us I believe that would be mallerie is [45:34] that [45:43] correct yes um either mallerie or Allison okay looks like mallerie has [45:50] unmuted herself mallerie can you hear us [46:02] I'll just give her a minute here in case it's audio on her and can you guys hear [46:07] me yes we can hear you now okay sorry some reason my headset's not working um [46:13] yeah so I'm with WSB I helped out with the traffic study um I guess just to [46:19] summarize it um the original one that was done last year um generated about [46:27] 5300 new trips daily trips um this new one this new site generates about 4500 [46:36] daily trips um now if you want to look at that in terms of like peak hours of the day um the am so like your [46:45] am um peak hour 7 to 8 a.m. um that generates about [46:52] 416 trips about half are going in the site and half are leaving the site site [46:57] which was different than the previous one uh which had more office space so there was more people going into the [47:04] site in the morning um and leaving the site in the afternoon versus now the [47:10] trips are kind of split half and half uh both generate just over about 400 trips [47:16] in the AM Peak and in the PM Peak as well um far as impacts the road the [47:25] signal at France Avenue and Gallagher Drive um that's really the only one [47:30] we're expecting to see a little bit of an impact um with more people being on [47:37] that East leg traffic volumes um more people are taking a left out of there so [47:44] the signal timing might have to be slightly modified um which gives more green time essentially to the the side [47:51] streets on Gallagher and a little bit bit less green time on France Avenue but [47:57] overall it's negligible delay uh 5 to 10 seconds on average just at that [48:05] intersection um so no improvements are being recommended the only thing um would be [48:12] queuing on that East leg at Gallagher uh right now I think that West [48:18] Zone left turn lane is only about 100 ft so it's going to queue back there during [48:24] the peak times um but other than that it's there's not much impact to France [48:39] Avenue and if you have any other specific questions um just let me know I can help [48:46] answer Maller can you help me un think about this uh maybe more intelligently [48:53] 4,500 daily trip sounds like a lot to me um on France Avenue where there are a [48:59] lot of stop lights and it I mean there's traffic on there so how do you when [49:04] you're making those evaluations because I think that is something that a lot of people are concerned about how do you [49:10] decide that 4500 daily trips is negligible on that [49:16] road um so if you look at it France Avenue is has very heavy traffic um just [49:22] in like one peak hour of the day it's about 2,000 Vehicles along France [49:29] Avenue um so if you look at our our peak hour traffic we're only adding [49:35] about 400 um so really France Avenue can [49:40] handle quite a bit more with it being three lanes in each Direction um so it [49:47] does seem like a lot but when you break it up just by looking at the peak hour it really doesn't impact um just because [49:54] there's so much traffic already but there's capacity on the roadway to handle that [50:06] traffic I was going to ask Al um so I wanted to focus more on the so France I [50:13] think it's quite wide and can handle a lot but I was kind of more worried or wanted to talk about the [50:21] uh roads to the North and South directly to the North and South so you have the small road that connects up to [50:28] lungs uh and you have the property to the South right and we have a North South Road connect going through the [50:35] property right now so I guess this property access conversion to Plaza that's a road correct I mean that goes [50:42] that goes through the property all the way um in terms of being able to handle [50:47] additional traffic there like that number of trips on those two small areas and being able and turning out of lungs [50:54] and whatnot what does that traffic impact look like um you know I mean in terms of Ls can be [51:00] a bit of a challenging the turn out of already but just handling that amount of traffic through that north south connection um were there concerns there [51:07] in terms of additional pedestrian safety ways to handle that those increased [51:13] number of trips Etc um what we're expecting is only [51:20] probably about 7% of those people are going to be coming to or from um [51:25] Hazelton Road so we account for anybody kind of cutting up through there [51:30] just because there's that free right um on the France Avenue out of the site so [51:36] we're expecting that if somebody wants to go north they're probably just going to use that free right versus trying to [51:41] cut through um all these other properties and try and get out that one's access if it's already kind of [51:49] busy [52:14] microphone um so the fee is going to be 2.8 uh $6 [52:21] million and that's a onetime only fee so there's no annual fee which is unlike [52:27] some of the other um complexes around Centennial Lakes is my understanding [52:35] um and that Park dedication fee is to be used by the city for nonoperating [52:41] expenses of any park in the city is that correct believe that's correct yes [52:47] um will this grant um access to the Ed [52:52] Edinburgh facilities for the people who live in these [52:57] complexes they wouldn't gain any special privileges that any other resident of [53:03] Edina wouldn't have okay so so there the people who [53:10] live around Centennial Lakes can have access to the Edinburgh property but the [53:16] rest of the city doesn't without paying for it I guess I don't know the detail of how how Edinburgh works but there's [53:23] no there's nothing connected this project with Edinburgh that gives [53:28] them special okay so what I'm hearing is they will not get access to Edinburgh by [53:33] living in this complex well access as any Edina resident would have I I might [53:40] be able to speak to that a bit there are some homes and apartments surrounding [53:46] Edinburgh that do have free use of the pool and track right this sounds like [53:51] this would not be included in those homes thank you that answers my question Liz thank you and um is this in the [53:57] udina or the Richfield School District [54:02] udina okay so then I will I'm going to kind of follow up on the questions um or [54:08] the points made about the traffic study and um so I want to make sure it's clear um [54:16] that on Gallagher there's a light um there's a a four-way light um so you can [54:22] turn in any direction but when you go up to what they're call I think the business [54:28] entrance um which is kind of a share driveway now at the Macy site and the [54:34] Lun site you can only turn right right it it it's not a four-way intersection [54:40] you can uh turn left onto 72nd but you can't turn um right so that means that [54:46] of the 572 units anybody that lived in there that wanted to make a [54:52] left out of the complex would have to go down to G [54:58] in order to turn left if they wanted to go on 494 and conversely if they were [55:03] wanting to come south from cross town or something like that they' again have to go all the way down to Gallagher in [55:10] order to turn um I'm not a traffic engineer but I [55:17] drive by this many times a day and [55:23] um 572 additional units um I have a hard [55:29] time I mean we ended up with some D's on um once we did the build out on the [55:35] traffic study we ended up with quite a few D's [55:40] um so I think um concluding that there's no additional [55:46] roadways um I'm struggling that there's no improvements and no roadways needed so [55:52] that's and and and you stand by basically everything that that's the [55:58] uh traffic study said we go why by what the professionals have provided us yes [56:05] and is there a discussion if the um the person is still on the line about um [56:11] bicycle traffic yes she is can you address bicycle traffic [56:21] please hi I guess yeah my study um we didn't really look at bicycle traffic [56:27] for the site it was mainly primar traffic vehicle traffic at the site um [56:34] and just to go back on your point of the the level of service D at some of those [56:40] um intersections typically uh if you want to look at level of [56:46] service uh level of service D is waiting less than 55 seconds at a signal um that [56:54] would be considered an acceptable amount of delay um typically once you hit over a [57:00] minute then we might start looking at mitigation options but people are generally willing to wait um a minute at [57:07] a signal to to get through the intersection um so that's why we aren't recommending any any improvements to the [57:17] road okay thank you [57:23] Marin just uh one question on the setback to R1 property I don't remember exactly how those were determined and [57:30] it's a little surprising that an 11 story building has a setback standard almost three times M higher than a [57:38] seven-story building so you just spend a minute on where those numbers come from those standards yeah I I don't know the [57:45] origins of them but [57:50] um yeah at at Nine Stories anything above Nine Stories requires that extra [57:57] setback so the seven story building requires a lesser [58:02] setback so let's see I've got [58:10] the yeah the seven story building requires a 328 foot setback and that [58:16] one's about 680 feet but it's the 11 story building that [58:22] the taller the building the greater the setback is is required and that's [58:28] because why what what I'm try what are we trying to achieve is what I can't recall maybe [58:35] it's um lesser impact to single family homes viewing a taller [58:41] building okay [58:49] thanks so I'm trying to decipher my notes here but [58:56] the uh Activity Center the CAC in the comp plan has 717 to [59:04] 1,195 um residences allowed for this site I think [59:10] I did the calculations on the 7.97 acres in the density and came up with 717 to [59:18] nearly 1,200 units and this is going to be 5 90 so under under [59:26] yeah it's about 72 units an acre a little over 70 units an acre okay where [59:31] it's different is this being a mixed use there's all of that office and Commercial and and Retail okay thank [59:41] you the building height setback that comes from the Pod requirements right yeah it's in the planed commercial [59:48] District it's in several zoning districts yeah okay okay because I I [59:53] found it on the code uh when I was reviewing this that it's you know five to six so in like section 36- 579 you [59:59] have five to six stories it's twice the building height 7 to8 stories four times the building height and then nine or [1:00:05] more stories six times the height of the building is required setb back from R1 um which is you [1:00:12] know just it is what it is I suppose it's just what kind of arbitrary but I I [1:00:17] know I understand the point of it right you don't want to be blocking out the Sun from everybody's uh R1 houses and [1:00:23] you know you want to create a gentle transition and whatnot so I think that was that's the main point of that but it [1:00:29] is a little bit you know I can see where that discrepancy comes from the S and [1:00:38] 11 comments no um I have one question so the um the [1:00:44] existing prominade is on city property right and if I understood the um plating [1:00:52] diagram correctly this extension of the prominade is all going to be on private [1:00:57] space correct yes but it's going to have a uh a uh Whatchamacallit for so there [1:01:05] would be easements maintenance agreements the the maintenance of all that space would be taken care of by the [1:01:11] property owner so the city doesn't maintain any of that there would just be an easement over it that grants the [1:01:17] public access to those spaces okay and do you know any excuse me any idea why [1:01:23] the city used to want to own that property and now they don't really really care about it which property the prominade like the [1:01:30] existing prominade is city property they didn't make easements they bought the property I presume oh originally it was [1:01:36] supposed to be a bus a Transit um within [1:01:41] the Southdale District it was going to be a rubber tire circulator through the district but that never got built and um [1:01:49] City changed directions on it and turned it into what it is today was it so it was always when the Southdale District [1:01:57] was built it was always city property it was there yes okay okay thank [1:02:04] you other questions okay thank [1:02:11] you now the developer [1:02:51] testing good evening chair members of the Planning Commission uh my name is patri on behalf of our entire uh project [1:02:58] team here we just want to say thank you for the opportunity to connect with you again on what we think is an awesome [1:03:03] project and um have another chance to get some feedback uh I'm going to start off with some high level comments and a [1:03:09] high level introduction and then I'll turn it over to the AR contexual team for uh a 3D flyth through of the project [1:03:16] so I'm really excited to have a chance to talk this through with you the project team includes uh a couple [1:03:23] developers my name is Patrick I'm with Enclave development for the record 1660 South Highway 100 St Louis Park um we're [1:03:29] lead developer on the project co-developer on the project is lifestyle communities they're here this evening as well ESG up here with you lead architect [1:03:37] partner architect pulp architecture is here as well Stant Tech is civil and then we have Confluence design for [1:03:44] landscaping and public roam design uh my comments that I'm going to make really high level um I just wanted to walk [1:03:51] through kind of the why and how we got here it's been a year and a half to almost year process of public input that [1:03:57] we've gone through to get to the point that we are today we take that opportunity to interact with the public [1:04:02] and stakeholders private and public individuals and groups seriously and we've done our best to take a lot of [1:04:09] that feedback and try to uh reflect that within our proposed design so uh excited [1:04:14] to share that with you this evening um Carrie did a great job of walking through how the site was I guess should [1:04:20] take a step back I'm going to walk through kind of five high level uh changes that we made to the site there's obviously a det detailed log and a lot [1:04:26] of specifics but I'm going to keep it summarized version I'm going to go through five high level changes that we made uh the first thing that we did um [1:04:33] to car's point that he outlined is we adjusted the site plan after the the France a connection public process [1:04:41] occurred we adjusted our site plan to reflect flexibility to allow for connection above France below France no [1:04:47] connection or atg grade um so there's a little bit of detail behind that we also shown on the screen here highlighted um [1:04:55] you can see the N Creek Trail system along the cell side wanted to make sure that that was integrated to any future [1:05:00] connection along France and so I can talk into detail on the specific things that we did but Carrie uh did a nice job [1:05:07] talking through that public realm obviously that's a big topic um in a big [1:05:12] part of the vision or at least our interpretation of the vision from the city on this site uh this site really is [1:05:19] uh designed around public real there's a lot of public realm on the site U big picture- wise we want this to be a [1:05:25] walkable vment we want it to be mixed to use we don't want the public to not feel welcomed in this development and not [1:05:30] have the feeling that oh I'm walking out of public right of way into a private development maybe I'm welcome here maybe [1:05:36] I'm not maybe I'm welcome here for certain hours maybe I'm not we don't want that feeling the intention is here is that this is a welcoming place for [1:05:42] the entire public and also very specifically feedback that we received we want this development to create a [1:05:49] connection from the prominade to France we want France excuse me the prominade [1:05:55] to reach out to France to create placemaking opportunities to pull the look and feel of the prominade to France [1:06:01] and I'll touch on that in a little bit more detail here on this next slide so one of the specific things that we did [1:06:07] and one of the tactics that you'll see show up in the 3D fly through from the architect is this Center we call it the [1:06:12] center East to West prominade everybody has a different title we should probably brand it and come up with something so it's easier to describe verbally um but [1:06:20] I think a little bit easier to compare and contrast the original proposal that we brought for uh before you year and a [1:06:26] half ago this area was very much concrete very much uh impervious surface [1:06:31] a little bit uh more car activity in this area less sunlight a little bit colder a little bit less green uh the [1:06:39] design was more linear and rectangular it felt more like almost like a private Plaza area we took in a lot of feedback [1:06:46] uh a lot of good feedback and really this is a major change we made in the project we essentially reversed it the [1:06:52] intention is that this feels like an extension of the prominade that the landscaping design the swooping uh [1:06:57] design of these landscaped areas the orientation of buildings to allow sunlight to come through removal of [1:07:03] underground parking between the two East buildings to allow deep rooted trees to grow um really changing the architecture [1:07:09] of all the buildings to have a really strong concentration at The Pedestrian level along this Corridor the intentions [1:07:16] to not make this Center Corridor just a plaza and an afterthought and requirement that the city made the developer do to rather in fact make it a [1:07:23] highlight of development make it a high point make it the strong point of the development so there's a lot of intention in the design that we put [1:07:30] together to put a lot of action and pedestrian orientation in that area the [1:07:36] fourth major thing that we did um in the vein of public realm uh the east side of [1:07:42] the site the setbacks that we have here are greater than recently Pro recent projects approved up and down the [1:07:47] corridor projects next to us that was in response to the feedback that we heard that we don't want this development to [1:07:53] just simply hook up and connect to the prominade we want the prominade to be to benefit from this development as well in [1:07:58] other words for it to expand and in the area that it does expand into our site we don't want it to look and feel like [1:08:03] private space and a private area we want to look and feel like an extension and a growth of the prominade that would come [1:08:09] with Public Access easements but uh to the point of the discussion of operations and maintenance it's the [1:08:14] responsibility of the developer to operate maintain to construct that pay Park dedication fees so um that area [1:08:21] includes some specific things and response to specific feedback for example include a restaurant against the [1:08:26] prominade we did add that to the project secondly include a room a new public amenity or room on the prominade [1:08:33] spilling into the site we have a dog park that's included on the northeast side of the site that' be a public dog [1:08:38] park it will have room to expand it isn't a monetized dog park it's not just a fenon area with uh with rocks and and [1:08:45] and nothing it's it's going to be we believe a a nice feature so um and then the architecture in the first two levels [1:08:52] of the east side of these buildings these two East buildings there's in intentionality with pedestrian uh uh uh [1:08:58] facing architecture in the first two levels enhanced architecture along with patios and connections from ground floor [1:09:04] units the last slide here is kind of a catchall we did receive request to have green Walls on this project so the south [1:09:11] side of the South buildings where we're going to get the most sunlight we did add green Walls you see it as the hashed [1:09:16] area on the south side of the two buildings we did add art moments in the project that was some of the feedback that we received so where you see the [1:09:22] four red dots as the architect goes through the 3D presentation you'll notice some art in that area those areas [1:09:28] and then lastly a little bit hard to show in a diagram or describe in just like one sentence but we did take to [1:09:33] heart the request to have um convertible parking in these buildings and to be able later if parking demand is less [1:09:40] than we expect to be able convert parking to residential units or office or additional retail and we can talk [1:09:45] through that uh if that's a desire for the Planning Commission those are the high level takeaways that we have um [1:09:52] that we took from the public uh input process and then we in ended to infuse into the design that the architect is [1:09:57] going to share with you so if we may and if you're comfortable we'd like to turn it over to the architect when you're ready thank [1:10:07] you thean all right well okay we'll get to the good part here is what I think [1:10:12] but uh so I'm Lucas Vantin with ESG architecture and design and Christopher [1:10:18] wette yes yes I'm Christopher will thsg project architect and thank you for [1:10:25] your time and it's an honor to be here and thank you for the process so what I'm going to do is jump [1:10:33] to a it's a live model we have set up different Vantage points so we'll kind [1:10:38] of fly there and then look around talk it through and then move to the next spot [1:10:44] so exciting it'll it it's plans are beautiful and words are wonderful but it [1:10:50] this hopefully will give a sense of the scale and materiality and and the things we've been t talking [1:10:56] about hopefully you will feel them uh by seeing them so real quick we're going to [1:11:03] start on France kind of in the middle we'll move west to east end up on the [1:11:08] prominade and then we'll do that again on the south and then again on the North so hopefully as we're moving through [1:11:15] you'll kind of see where we are okay so does everyone do you see [1:11:20] that in your screen okay so here we are this would be [1:11:25] along France looking to the east so you can see uh two buildings fronting France you [1:11:31] see that prominade extension that's um coming through all the way to France [1:11:37] here and the idea with these buildings and you'll see the architecture change a [1:11:43] little as you get closer to the prominade the idea with these is that they feel a little more commercial [1:11:49] they're a little more of busy France Avenue that a lot of people experience [1:11:55] from from a car so it's okay um you you see the a lot of glass at the [1:12:01] base commercial office space and and then in those uh places the materials [1:12:09] are that's where we've got a lot of that brick you can see you know the brick going up the cast stone going up and so [1:12:17] you see the play of massings here you know the left building's a little shorter but those the mass is a little [1:12:24] more forward whereas the building on the right is taller but you've got Mass low [1:12:30] and then it's stepped back so there's sort of a a sculpting of the massing there and then the the [1:12:38] materiality feels a little more commercial overall as opposed to when we move back it'll feel a little more [1:12:46] residential I think while we're here I'll just note you can see this sculpture here that's a placeholder and [1:12:52] the idea is that there's a a a nice sculpture piece there could [1:12:58] be sculpture that's in front of uh the Macy store right now or maybe that wants [1:13:03] to be somewhere else but the thought is to to reuse that somewhere on [1:13:09] site so I'll move in and we can we can jump back actually I'll we'll look around a little rather than just a still [1:13:17] obviously we're missing buildings but soon it'll be just absolutely [1:13:23] realistic here I feel like this is a step up from when we just provided one [1:13:29] sketch so from here we're going to move move straight in along the [1:13:37] prominade you can see we're kind of halfway um you can start to see the landscaping and how the the landscape [1:13:45] architect is here and he could speak more eloquently but the idea is that some of those species and and the flavor [1:13:51] of the prominade is uh permeating through into here let's do a quick look around you [1:13:59] can see some of the the the massing varying there's that sculpture that we [1:14:04] were looking at the intent here is obviously as was mentioned that this feels public you can [1:14:11] Meander through you can stop there's there might be some planned activities [1:14:16] or maybe it's just passive keep looking [1:14:23] around the thought here is that this wall it's not quite it's not fully developed but that it would be some sort [1:14:29] of uh scrim there some sort of um a little bit of an art feature there you [1:14:36] can start to see from here also the architecture changing a little so this [1:14:42] cast stone which was all the way up the building on France is now happens in one [1:14:48] and twostory moments to to show entry and [1:14:54] we're starting to transition to a more tripartite you know base Middle top [1:14:59] which feels more residential okay so we'll jump ahead to [1:15:04] the middle middle here so this would be that east west north south [1:15:14] intersection so this is looking South looking [1:15:20] East and then North and then and west back to [1:15:29] France you can see we're highlighting building entries with a lot of glass and then you know if it's parking or if it's [1:15:36] a unit there's less glass start to see this we're we're that [1:15:43] talk a little bit about the the pallet um you know there's there's a lot of [1:15:48] neutral colors you know a lighter whiter color castone and then um some Grays but [1:15:55] the thought is that this uh blue color and then some wood tones are enriching [1:16:01] the the pallette with a little bit of color um but in a in a more sophisticated way so we'll continue on [1:16:10] our Pathway to these Town Homes spin around so we're looking East [1:16:17] toward the prominade looking North and then back [1:16:22] you can see looking back toward France so we're looking to vary the scale a little bit here you know this has a more [1:16:30] of a town home walk up feel you can start to see that transition of public you know [1:16:37] this this obviously feels really public but then someone could be sitting on their front porch and because there's a [1:16:45] little bit of elevation and a little bit of landscaping between you kind of get the best of both worlds where it feels [1:16:51] really public and welcoming but yet you could sit on your front porch and and [1:16:56] not feel like everyone's you know looking at you or just feel like you're um like it's to public that also affords [1:17:05] an extra use of activity too right so when um we don't necessarily have to [1:17:12] program the space we can let the tenants themselves be out there grilling or visiting with their little you know [1:17:19] having a cup of tea with a beastro chair out front you can imagine it being activated just by the residents there as [1:17:25] well as the public that may be uh passing through that space so I'm going to kind of move up a [1:17:32] little just to start to understand I know previously [1:17:37] we had two c-shaped buildings facing south and since that time um we've [1:17:45] located the pool you can see to the right on the North building and what is [1:17:50] what we're doing opening the other the the c-shape the courtyard facing nor North is letting that daylight into the [1:17:58] pool area and then also into the prominade area here and you can see the activity up [1:18:04] there um that that's obviously all private but it it affords us not trying to put a [1:18:12] bunch of private stuff on the on the on the street level on the ground plane so [1:18:18] there's there's kind of a layering of activity there okay now we'll jump out [1:18:24] to the prominade look around so you can see we're looking back towards [1:18:29] France we're looking at you know Cafe restaurant on the corner of this building that would be the the southeast [1:18:37] building you can see the the the tripartite architecture here where it [1:18:42] feels more residential than the front buildings which feel a little more commercial where you have that heavier C [1:18:50] Stone material and then a lighter material above that and then you can see the step back with Terraces on the top [1:18:57] this one happens to be uh common to the building you know these over here would be unit Terraces but there's there's [1:19:05] this stepping back layering effect and then you can see also what we were [1:19:10] talking about earlier where you go from Fields really public of the prominade [1:19:16] and then that stepping up stepping back with Landscaping to help the units uh [1:19:22] feel feel um priv it also we're looking to the north here and this is that that [1:19:28] dog park that we were talking about that would be a public amenity for people to [1:19:34] use um and then operated by the the development I think from this Vantage [1:19:39] Point too you really get to start to feel that U that definition of a street room that the guidelines are referring [1:19:46] to and really set out to be a goal of these developments uh referring to the [1:19:51] greater sdale District guidelines so you start to see we're molding and sculpting that space through this Central spine [1:19:59] and really building this activity for The Pedestrian at a human scale and even [1:20:04] using the term Street room is exciting to me because it implies that we're looking [1:20:10] for space rather than a lot of times you think of architecture as a building and [1:20:16] you know a parking lot around it which that is not making space it's not making [1:20:22] landscape so even using the term Street room I think is is exciting because it [1:20:29] it speaks to that okay from here we'll jump we're going to jump back to France and we'll [1:20:35] go south and north a little quicker we we covered a lot of the main [1:20:42] ideas so we're back at France this would be at Gallagher kind of looking [1:20:49] North looking East and then we'll move to the [1:20:57] midpoint so here we're we're looking North here the idea of this signage is [1:21:03] that it could be a it's an opportunity for a public sign to show the prominade [1:21:10] the the taller one and then there's a you know a shorter one at the bottom [1:21:16] that could tell people hey there's a cafe around the corner off the prominade [1:21:21] that sort of thing we do think it's important for the success of that retail that's back on the prominade side to [1:21:27] have some V visibility back towards uh France Avenue so as you're entering that [1:21:33] property maybe it's the first time you've been there you now have a sense of oh I'm headed the right way and I can [1:21:38] be directed to the internal parking to make my way back there and then we'll jump one more time [1:21:45] over to the promade and see um this the walk up [1:21:50] units here prominade this way and then looking back toward [1:21:56] France we've been working with a little bit of an idea the existing Macy's building is like the landscape flowing [1:22:02] into the building uh so that that concept we've been thinking along the South here where [1:22:09] the landscape is flowing and kind of growing up the building okay from there we'll jump to [1:22:15] the north north side back to France so here we are looking South on [1:22:22] France see glass at the base you know a little [1:22:28] amenity Terrace for this building see the the access here and the [1:22:35] intent is obviously that ours are it's it's easy enough to understand when [1:22:42] you're arriving in a car where to go but it hopefully it's obvious that The [1:22:48] Pedestrian focuses is a is a big deal here so we'll jump to the middle [1:22:54] so we're looking South along that that street we're looking at an art [1:23:02] moment along uh the wall here looking back to [1:23:12] France we'll jump we'll jump back to the prominade at the northeast corner where [1:23:17] that dog park is so looking back to France and then looking South along the [1:23:23] prominade I think from there we'll jump we just [1:23:29] had a few more slides and then open it up there additional [1:23:36] questions and you know in order thanks I think just for the [1:23:41] benefit of time I'm going to give the ab bridg version of these slides um really just wanted to call attention here as [1:23:47] we're kind of winding down the presentation to recognizing the importance of the guidelines have had over what we've been doing in terms of [1:23:55] developing the design so one recognizing those are amazing guidelines they're [1:24:00] Progressive they're informative they're really well written and you know the city should be really proud of uh having [1:24:06] worked so hard to assemble them over the years there's a list of aspirations and those guidelines that really set the [1:24:12] goal standards for the future of uh of the greater sdale [1:24:17] district and uh rather again than belabor the point of all these because I think we generally covered them I just [1:24:24] want you to recognize uh the some of the guiding principles we look for in the guidelines that uh we hope is evident [1:24:31] youve seen evidence of as we're moving through these presentations so the building block is really of those [1:24:36] guiding of those guidelines to start with walkable blocks and that's [1:24:42] essentially where we start the project too of being able to build these quadrants for the site develop human [1:24:47] human scale Street rooms we talked about that a little bit through the views neighborhood connectivity through [1:24:53] corridors that focus on activity the little uh diagram up in the upper right it's an updated version of something [1:24:59] that we've started all the way back at sketch plan review that's really held true as we've continued to push the [1:25:05] design forward which is all about connectivity north south east and west to the prominade and even as we've [1:25:12] talked about to a future potential future Crossing uh over France Avenue or under France Avenue through France [1:25:19] Avenue however it might happen over to the sites on the west side of it [1:25:24] uh again this this focus and importance of pedestrian uh putting the P [1:25:30] pedestrian first infrastructure resulting [1:25:37] functional Civic spaces Transportation that's not car focused again we're pushing all the parking into the [1:25:44] buildings essentially eliminating surface parking and providing ample bike parking across the [1:25:50] site variety of use of architectural design healthy Green Design we talked [1:25:55] about the sustainability guidelines of the city that we're going to meet including some Innovative techniques such as uh putting solar panels on the [1:26:02] roofs and finally expanding the park in public space which uh hopefully is evident in all the green imageries uh [1:26:09] imagery we've put forward one of the points we really talk at at length was in that lower right image that's [1:26:16] essentially that southwest corner looking East towards the prominade and [1:26:21] really this is one of the Great opportun were creating on on behalf of the city [1:26:26] through the development of this site of really creating a dynamic access point that's visible from France that guides [1:26:32] you back into this really wonderful asset of the city which is the prom in the Central Lakes District so me [1:26:40] Centennial Lakes district and so I think really many of these things uh would be very [1:26:46] challenging or not possible without the flexibility we're asking for uh through the Pud [1:26:53] process so I think with that uh we can wrap with the presentation not asking [1:26:58] you to memorize the long list of things on the left it's just uh reminders for us of all the things we're prepared to [1:27:03] talk about should you have questions on them I think we'll actually jump back uh and leave the screen on the overall site [1:27:10] plan with a little extra context on there and then open up for Q&A or comments and you want to take it from [1:27:16] here great thank you very much for that presentation so um before we go to the [1:27:22] public hearing we have have an opportunity for us to ask questions so this is not a commentary time this is a [1:27:28] question time so anyone who has questions for the uh [1:27:39] yep sure there and Patrick you can help me too but I know there there's there's [1:27:46] one planned on the prominade saw that in the renderings that would be that Southeast building [1:27:53] can you see my where pointing M so that would be a primary one and then on the [1:27:59] northwest building I've talked about as commercial I don't know if that it's for [1:28:04] sure a restaurant or not maybe can so the two West buildings along [1:28:12] France on the first floor both include commercial space our Target is to [1:28:19] recruit restaurants to be in those spaces they could be one user they could be split into two to so conceivably you [1:28:25] could have two restaurants in each of those West buildings along France it could be one restaurant depending on [1:28:31] what demand we get from the marketplace maybe it's a different type of commercial use um but as far as like [1:28:37] specifically an only restaurant in the main target that Southeast building we very much are specifically targeting a [1:28:44] restaurant and tell me a little bit more about the office space you talked a bit about it but it's mostly oriented [1:28:52] towards France all of the all of the office space included in this project is located [1:28:58] within the West two buildings um I don't know I don't have it memorized but I believe the first [1:29:05] call it the first third or uh 40% of that Southwest Building is going to be commercial office so floor is one [1:29:12] through five two through four thank you correction on that and then the uh [1:29:17] Northwest building this the second floor is programmed to have office uh that Northwest building um there was a [1:29:24] comment made earlier and maybe this an opportunity for me to address your comment and then respond to another um [1:29:30] the Northwest building very much is meant to be flexible uh we do desire to have more office than just one floor of [1:29:36] office on the second floor um however we're trying to be mindful of uh the [1:29:42] size and scale of this project and the lift that it takes to get it through a closing and making sure that we can [1:29:48] confidently get through this process get it through a closing and not have one single building dragged down the entire [1:29:54] project if we go full spec on office we do have a lot of interest in office but right now what you see before you right [1:30:01] now is first floor retail or with that fronting uh commercial along France that could be restaurants second floor office [1:30:07] with apartments above so floors three through seven our Apartments if we get [1:30:12] office interest in lease ass sign we will try to swap out floors of residential to office if there's a [1:30:19] material change to that make up of that building we acknowledge we'd have to come back for an amendment to the Pud um [1:30:25] but that's the intent answering the question about office and why we're programming the Northwest building the [1:30:30] way that we are and I'm going to let you know the reason I'm asking the question because for me the activated Street room [1:30:39] is not just a place for people to walk through but for people to interact with the building and [1:30:47] um and a lot of a lot of that street is faced with residences which are [1:30:54] private um so I was starting to feel that the street was becoming more private than your prominade was starting [1:31:01] to become more private than than public I I get that it's active and it's Meander or it's you can move through [1:31:08] there and um it's Meandering and there's good things to look at but I want people [1:31:14] to be drawn through there um by knowing that they can go [1:31:20] to a maker's place or an office or their dental office or whatever it is that [1:31:27] they can do a couple of things on their way between um France and and so [1:31:33] so that was my question I was about the office and the residents because the residents the [1:31:39] restaurant is more oriented towards the prominade um and if that was even [1:31:45] flipped there'd be more [Music] um um more of that on the [1:31:54] The Walking Street between the two and the same with the office if those offices both kind of cornered on that [1:31:59] prominade there's another way for people to feel like they were not walking into a private Courtyard and into a place [1:32:08] that they were supposed to be it's helpful at all I'm I have some [1:32:14] color I can add to that but if I defer to you chair okay um yeah great comment [1:32:20] and well said and part of the intention of the design here I should highight light first floor uses are huge there's [1:32:26] a there's a plan set or a plan sheet included in the submitt that we have it's the Landscaping plan and one of the Landscaping plans was actually annotated [1:32:33] with first floor uses to give kind of a visual of I believe answering your question directly uh if I may the West [1:32:40] two buildings if you're in that Center prominade and you're looking at the first floor of the West two buildings [1:32:46] there is zero uh residential at the first two levels it's actually even above on the Southwest Building so when [1:32:52] you're sending sending that Center prominade between the two usest buildings it's all commercial office [1:32:59] lobby type uses that spill into that area we do have a kind of 2B determined [1:33:04] space that's located in the heart of that Northwest building spilling into that Center prominade that would be [1:33:11] potentially like a publicly available either shared workspace or conference [1:33:16] room or whatever that the public can rent whether you're part of this development or not or obviously people within the development can rent and use [1:33:23] as well that bubble that you see on the west side of the site the green large yard area is a programmable Turf area [1:33:32] that we intend to use for programming for all the users on this site we can make available to the city and the [1:33:37] public as well but that's more of a higher durability Green Turf area so if [1:33:42] we want to do programming music uh we're going to have restaurants that straddle that so the restaurants that are located [1:33:49] in that commercial space that I mentioned that's fronting France on the west side of the two West buildings it [1:33:54] actually kind of tucks into the prominade and the intention is if there's overflow seating or outdoor seating needed for those areas that they [1:34:00] can spill into the prominade um so uh apologize that it didn't show up uh in [1:34:06] the presentation but we we very much want that West Side to feel Almost 100% commercial on the first couple floors or [1:34:12] even higher in that Development Area on the East End if I'm going all the way down to the far of the prominade and the [1:34:18] far east side and the southeast building where that um uh uh restaurant pad is [1:34:24] located it's on the corner and the intention is that you know the northeast corner when you're on the center [1:34:29] prominade you're looking into the restaurant of there as well so it's not just an exclusive feature facing out to the east it's also facing inward into [1:34:36] the center prominade so admittedly you are correct the East two buildings have a more residential feel with a little [1:34:42] endcap of commercial feel uh but the two West are 100% commercial or at least that's the intention on the on the [1:34:48] ground level and then the last thing I'd mentioned too is the two lobbies that are in the two apartment buildings [1:34:54] are designed to feel commercial and they both face inward into that Center prominade so those two East buildings um [1:35:01] they're uh their Lobby areas are located on the first floor at the main intersection they're intended to spill [1:35:06] kind of into that Center prominade so I some of it is a proportion thing too if [1:35:11] we had shops lining this whole thing there there's a chance they might be empty shops which that's what we don't [1:35:19] want so no and I understand that I um I was able to walk um Centennial last week [1:35:28] with my cousins who stayed at the residents in and above in Burl and love [1:35:35] walking around the area and ended up going from the Southside felt comfortable walking through a commercial [1:35:41] building to get to the park walking to Pinstripes and having lunch and going back but I probably wouldn't go up and [1:35:47] go through one of the residential areas because it's not my area [1:35:54] um so that's where um that came from and [1:36:02] um I was going to ask you a question about the parking again um how much [1:36:08] public parking how much is that flexible or what were you [1:36:14] thinking the first floor of all four buildings were intending to be generally [1:36:19] available for public use um in kind of in the Spirit of what we've mentioned [1:36:24] like we want this to be a walkable welcoming place not just for our project but for anybody coming to this area from [1:36:32] from that doesn't live there or doesn't uh work there um if you're going to if [1:36:37] you're going to show up at this development and you see a public parking sign in one building but you want to get [1:36:42] to the restaurant in the other building we're trying to not have a situation where someone needs to know where their [1:36:48] a sign parking is as a public is someone from the public we think that's too confusing to result in an unsuccessful [1:36:53] development so the intention is first floor of every single building and the the floor plans are included here [1:37:00] includes some form of structured parking um that structured parking is generally available um and we've done parking [1:37:06] counts to make sure that we we can hit the mon of parking that restaurants would need so we can be successful with [1:37:12] restaurants but obviously there's going to be Peaks and drops and shared parking across all four of these sites and [1:37:17] that's what we envision we envision almost like a first floor shared parking strategy across the entire development [1:37:23] and that could be for people that want to even Park here and go use the prominade or Centennial [1:37:28] Lakes follow yeah sorry just to follow up there's two [1:37:34] floors of underground parking under each building but then you enter at ground [1:37:39] level and that's going to be public and then the there will be additional levels [1:37:46] above and then the two below that will be used and I guess signed for the residents of that building or the office [1:37:52] tenants that that's the plan yep so every single building on this project has two floors of below ground parking [1:37:59] um and then uh all the buildings have an atg grade level of some form of parking obviously it can't all be parking [1:38:04] because we have these active uses so we're trying to straddle that or Walk the Line there and then some of the [1:38:10] buildings have one story on the second or even the Southwest building has multiple stories um the first floor is [1:38:17] meant to be the public floor and everything else will have some sort of secure or assignment uh above or below [1:38:22] first floor so two more questions I mean that first [1:38:28] floor being public parking that is another way to bring people into the site and make that street feel like [1:38:33] their own so um I'm going to consider that a positive thing and [1:38:39] then so the Southwest Building is the owner occupied building [1:38:46] Condominiums um the all the rest would be rent rental units so those walk outs [1:38:53] would you their rental units would you um allow someone like a [1:38:59] say an artist to do have a have a live work space and bring public in to buy [1:39:06] you know jewelry or Pottery or whatever it is would you allow I mean that's another way to make [1:39:12] that an active stet I'm just throwing it out there you [1:39:18] to say yes true yes uh great comment and actually on a handful of projects we're [1:39:25] working on right now across the Twin Cities we're looking at that type of approach for the first floor the the [1:39:31] two-story walkout units um if there is desire from this board and from the council we would be happy to consider [1:39:38] that for some of the units on this project it's not programmed at this point but if there is kind of consensus [1:39:43] Direction on that we would we would welcome at least adding a couple units or swapping out a couple to have that [1:39:48] flexibility thank you [1:39:57] um can you remind me if we're if there's a tiff request in this project there is [1:40:02] okay um what for can you address why what the need and where that money will [1:40:08] be going because my understanding at least as far as height goes is that as I read through this it was specified that [1:40:14] additional height was needed to make up for fact that you need more Market unit rate Market unit market rate units [1:40:22] because you have affordable housing and there right so we're asking for additional height and we're asking for Tiff funding on top of that so just walk [1:40:28] me through that decision and that ask a little bit as far as height goes I'm not [1:40:34] personally aware of a connection between any height request and a tiff request uh [1:40:39] Tiff um it's GNA it's connected to a few things uh heavy structured parking [1:40:45] structured parking's a large cost and with almost no surface parking here and almost 100% structured that's a abnormal [1:40:52] cost for developer um secondly affordable housing is a huge component that's that's a a very big item and um [1:41:00] we'll be submitting a formal application to the city we detail everything out of course uh in dollars um but that's a [1:41:06] large item and it goes you know goes on through the life of the Tiff District so 25 years of affordable I think just we [1:41:13] just you know I don't want to throw out numbers in the public forum here but it's significant I mean it's many many [1:41:19] many many many millions of dollars impact to cash flow want project like this um so that's a big piece obviously [1:41:26] there's a lot of public realm here so a little bit enhanced level of uh landscape architecture you normally [1:41:33] would do on a normal project so we have an elevated public realm um those are [1:41:38] the big three uh there's little details you know like we're doing solar on some of the buildings um obviously we're [1:41:44] going to meet the sustainability code um we are proud of the architecture and layout of the site and and configuring [1:41:52] Things based on on the connection across France that's created some uh more expensive building styles uh it the use [1:42:00] of more of concrete than we would than we' normally prefer to use so just a little bit of everything but I [1:42:06] affordable housing is a huge component of [1:42:11] that a huge component of the Tiff ask corre [1:42:18] right we and so what I'm getting at is we also we also need the additional height right again so you're just trying [1:42:25] to generate additional Revenue that's what you're saying I mean because what I'm trying to hit on is feedback from [1:42:30] the community that that I've seen so far about the height and the concern about the height here um especially 11 story [1:42:37] building and how it impacts our one neighborhood across um and so I it it just is It just [1:42:44] strikes me as odd as in terms of asking for additional height and Tiff funding I understand that there is a lot of it [1:42:50] we've asked for a lot from this PUD right we've asked for restaurant we've asked for you know additional [1:42:56] Landscaping Etc I can agree with that but um I would have to dive into the [1:43:01] numbers a little bit more to see how that math works out and and whatnot um but I'll I'll continue on the height [1:43:07] aspect a little bit do we if we looked at um how the height will impact the [1:43:13] prominade in terms of shading in terms of wind has there any been like any kind of study or I guess any analysis in that [1:43:19] regard because I know that was another concern raised by our residents and Better Together how will you know this area be shaded and will it impact the pr [1:43:26] not too much and whatnot with the height you have we have completed a shadow study [1:43:33] that's available and included in our smle I think we can pull that up if we do want to get into that um and that was [1:43:38] part of a lot of the strategy that has gotten in the project and um and then on [1:43:45] uh well maybe we'll start there and before I go down you guys have that available [1:43:53] guess well on height I can just quickly mention before we get into this uh obviously we have not we have not [1:43:59] received like any like formal motions or directions so the comments I'm going to say are just anecdotal feedback that we [1:44:06] received through the process to date um we actually had higher buildings uh both buildings were higher at one point um [1:44:13] and we went I think we went back through some of the boards and commissions even a couple times and um this is my [1:44:19] anecdotal feedback was that it was mentioned several times that isn't the concern in fact we recommend pushing [1:44:25] height uh that's not the main concern that the city has so um we tried to [1:44:31] balance uh knowing the code and the requirements with a feedback we received [1:44:37] so we kind of split it down the middle we dropped one building down to comply we actually reduced one story from the [1:44:42] other building and tried to find a compromise in the middle and so that's why we landed up the strategy that we [1:44:48] did but Shadow study if you guys want yes far as Shadow study goes probably is [1:44:53] more helpful to see it by hour um but that shadowing the prominade [1:44:59] the obviously the taller building is far to the West so um it would be the [1:45:05] buildings along the the prominade that um would impact that [1:45:17] more which were were set back a good amount I I was walking it today and [1:45:24] uh the building to the north um is a little closer so it's [1:45:30] setting it back I think we feel feel better there and doing the tearing that [1:45:36] we're doing a little bit of and as far as wind goes I'm not an [1:45:41] expert but got right now it I was there today it was windy it's a surface parking lot [1:45:49] there's nothing to lock the wind as soon as you have more buildings and [1:45:55] trees that obviously helps okay I appreciate you pulling this [1:46:01] up right so what I was trying to get at you know my own questions and then again [1:46:06] hitting on the feedback from better together and and making sure that we address that and um this is a good [1:46:11] illustration looks like your pool will get a little shade in the late afternoon in the summer [1:46:19] um okay um after height traffic is the next [1:46:25] thing I wanted to ask about uh so if you could go back to your high Lev map of [1:46:30] the site if you [1:46:37] would yeah okay so looking at so you know kind of [1:46:44] hit on what I asked about earlier when when uh Carrie was up here so around the [1:46:50] North and South areas in traffic in that regard so to the north you can't really [1:46:55] see on this map but there's a grade there right going into that driveway and you have parking spots at an angle so [1:47:02] people are going have to back up against gr right they're gonna have to back up downhill in order to get out of that um [1:47:09] could be a little that could be a little tricky um you have so it looks like just it's only [1:47:16] pedestrian access on that D on that road to the South right so that Plaza that's not there's not meant to be vehicle [1:47:22] traffic there all I mean the way it was named I think was a little funny in terms of but you all all traffic going [1:47:28] through the South has to go through that one Outlet Road right there's no like there will be no confusion that people [1:47:33] can drive over there for any reason that Plaza area just because it [1:47:39] was named on the one map that staff showed it was like convertible Plaza or some regard or I can't remember what [1:47:46] where my cursor is or no straight keep going south oh here yeah yeah [1:47:53] yeah yeah so that that's not intended to be vehicle traffic at any point right okay it just [1:48:00] was that was 99% sure but I wanted that 1% sorry I I want to make sure you get [1:48:06] the public record correct are we talking about that on the cell side there yes I should set that correct then um so uh [1:48:15] for you know putting the facts out there the the the property owner to the South has an easement an access easement over [1:48:22] that area it is our preference and desire to eliminate that access point and have it 100% green green and just [1:48:28] betrayal however we are required to continue to provide them access so what we're trying to do like so many things [1:48:34] trying to find a middle ground and so still provide the access that they are entitled to but convert it to a plaza [1:48:41] style access to um not to uh not encourage average and common use uh [1:48:49] through that area only as needed for trucks uh because that's the primary use that they need it for is when they have [1:48:54] deliveries or trucks so more so I wasn't crazy I was [1:48:59] like that is there is going to be traffic over there the way that was named it was an access point of some sort or something [1:49:05] okay all right yeah I mean total traffic flow through the area is a bit like I said I think it's a bit tricky [1:49:13] um again North with that grade change and how and you how the fact you can only turn right out of there um the [1:49:19] four-way intersection on the south and then you kind of have that median which if somebody wants to turn left into the [1:49:27] property of the South which I believe is what The Container Store and and everything else then they kind of have to it's kind of an odd angle but um I [1:49:36] mean I understand why you did what you did I think there could be some improvement but I know you're a little [1:49:41] handcuffed by the problem OD stuff I would just encourage as we build this right to try to make [1:49:48] this as safe as for our pedestrians as possible in terms of signage in terms of narrowing stuff down right I I I do [1:49:55] worry about traffic coming and going like um commissioner Pilla said if you have to go and turn take a left you're [1:50:01] everybody's going to go try to go south right and you might have people going through quite frequently or maybe if [1:50:07] they go out of Ls and they want to take a left right you have a lot of traffic flowing that way so let them try to [1:50:13] manage that effectively um trying to think other questions I think that's that's it for for this [1:50:20] moment I might get spurred by other Commissioners but thank you questions oh sure [1:50:27] goe can you go back maybe to the fly through or maybe you can do it here I'm [1:50:33] a little bit confused and I know we don't have restaurants locked down so Concepts aren't fully maybe flushed out [1:50:39] but where um trash is going to be where [1:50:45] you know grease traps back of the house food deliveries are going to be you have 500 something units of apartments [1:50:53] um you know you're going to have 25% turnover a year so you're going to have a bunch of movein and move like I just [1:51:00] I'm I'm struggling a little bit with the logistics for all the uses um and [1:51:05] wondering if you could talk through that um for reference purposes only we [1:51:11] did create um a couple separate plan sheets after dialogue with staff on these points for trash holling drop off [1:51:18] pick up move in big trucks fire uh access emergency access so um just for [1:51:25] reference purposes um the trash will be collected 100% inside the parking [1:51:32] garages we will have shafts for trash to come from the upper floors um trash will [1:51:38] be carted out from the first floor of every uh project out to the or all four [1:51:43] buildings out to that Center Street and we do have a a plan that shows the size of a garbage truck coming to pick those [1:51:50] up and then being stacked so that's available as well as far as um grease [1:51:56] shafting smoke smells from restaurants uh our uh wonderful [1:52:01] architectural team will be including the proper re uh programed shafts uh running [1:52:09] vertically through the buildings through the roof uh of each building to allow for tenant build outs and tenant [1:52:16] improvements in the future when those exact uh restaurants are secured um that's a semic commmon practice because [1:52:23] you don't know exactly what's needed right now before we build so we have to pre-program a large siiz shaft that runs [1:52:30] all the way up to the roof so that's I think that's the plan on this project as well how about Resident movein move [1:52:37] outs food delivery I I saw yeah you had the the trucks but then I wasn't sure how to understand how those truck sizes [1:52:44] would be functioning in this space [1:52:55] so essentially this diagram is demonstrating the range of vehicles that can fit inside each of the [1:53:02] garages so each of the Eastern residential buildings and um and [1:53:07] Northeast building can essentially allow a standard U-Haul style truck up to X size [1:53:17] and there's a huge range of sizes in in each of those things as well so what [1:53:22] we've done is allocate space on the Main Street to Cone off for any large [1:53:29] vehicles that would have to pull over and drop those off and then in uh [1:53:34] basically uh provide a route into the elevators through the through the garage [1:53:40] system of the building from that point right so all those residents if they hire a moving company they're going [1:53:46] to have a 20ft truck for your one or TW bedroom luxury apartment in the [1:53:52] different build I I just I'm that through street is functioning [1:53:57] for a lot of traffic for people coming in and out a lot of moving in and out and a lot of commercial vehicles for the [1:54:04] uses and I'm concerned about it bifurcating that prominade the way it I [1:54:10] mean I just it feels like a lot in a little [1:54:16] space yeah yeah there's a lot going on I mean it's honestly it's I mean it is and [1:54:21] it's one of the it's you know Patrick spoke about trying to strike balance between all of this right it's this it's [1:54:26] trying to find The Sweet Spot between making this about pedestrians first and [1:54:32] not about Vehicles everywhere and so as we limit the number of roads in and [1:54:38] around this trying to pinch those zones down into where these things happen it [1:54:44] it does get limiting of where we can where we can achieve for sure and I'm going to ask probably an unpopular [1:54:50] question is it the height that the limiting factor if you went taller does [1:54:55] that give you more space on the ground floor to play with I mean right you have to make the numbers work and so you have [1:55:01] to have a certain amount of square footage and I just I I don't want The [1:55:07] Pedestrian experience for the whole project to be sacrificed for Logistics [1:55:12] that have to happen for these buildings to operate because we're worried about one or two stories like I feel to me [1:55:19] sorry that cuts your nose off despite your face because if that becomes a [1:55:24] really unpleasant place to be then that I think will ruin a lot of [1:55:30] The Pedestrian experience I feel like you don't have that at um Market Street and and that [1:55:37] development right because you don't have cars going through there you don't have that in other parts but if you're going to have a lot of cars going through both [1:55:44] from traffic of the users and all the other vehicles I I just worry that it's all going to get compromised and so I [1:55:51] know we have a lot of restrictions and and conditions because this is a very important project but if there is one [1:56:00] that is particularly driving this design I would be interested in understanding [1:56:05] that from your perspective it's one that you probably can't control it's the building code [1:56:13] so where essentially we've maxed out the height for the building types that we can do right down to essentially the [1:56:19] last 6 in that we can squeeze out of we would we would love to push that a [1:56:24] little bit if we could uh to give a little more flexibility but we've done [1:56:30] that step already I guess is the way of saying it uh to get to where we we have the grad's a little bit better on the [1:56:37] southern half of the site so it all works a little bit better in that south southeastern building um and there's [1:56:43] still some left some work left to do with with grading plans and finalizing [1:56:48] things to continue to look for those opportunities [1:56:54] can I follow up on that so most of the rental units will [1:56:59] probably be in U-Hauls or trucks that it can get into the garage right CU it [1:57:06] 592 apartments and if the apartments are a year-to-year [1:57:11] lease I mean I don't know what turnover is going to be like but that could get kind of busy um so limiting those larger [1:57:20] trucks for the two-bedroom Luxury Condominiums which may or may not [1:57:26] be purchased later on all inclusive you know at some point people just sell all [1:57:33] their furniture with their unit um have you thought about that thought [1:57:40] through those I don't know uh kind of adding some detail even to [1:57:49] this plan and it may or may not answer your question directly but just for clarification so all these buildings can [1:57:56] handle a van pickup truck small moving vehicle uh moving box truck every one of [1:58:02] them can the Southwest Building can handle even larger Vehicles because it has a higher ceiling so there will be a [1:58:08] percent of move-ins that will be taken care of outside of public view what we're trying to show on this plan is the stuff that doesn't fit so like you [1:58:14] brought up a good point I mean some people be bringing very large vehicles for moving we're showing three spots [1:58:20] here in those parallel stalls for three moving trucks we intend that entire North South Road those parallel stalls [1:58:26] to all be um essentially um available for uh reservation so if we know it's [1:58:35] the start of the month or there's moving scheduled we'll we'll you know put a sock over the the stall and and make [1:58:41] sure that it's not you know someone's not going to park in this in theory what we're showing here is three large trucks [1:58:46] you could probably accommodate uh six large trucks and then obviously everything inside of the buildings that doesn't answer your question directly [1:58:52] but I just there's a little bit more capacity than maybe uh shows up immediately first glance on this plan um [1:58:58] but it's a point well taken and um something that you know admittedly that's one of the the struggles with a [1:59:04] very complex mixed use development with high density it's just it's part of the process so thanks thank you [1:59:24] I guess I was just wondering um so for requesting a variance on the I don't have it pulled up but on the ground [1:59:31] level transparency what's the Practical difficulty of not getting to that 75% [1:59:38] number on the ground level I can I can speak to that first [1:59:44] off so I I to me when you look at a lot of transparency it means restaurant [1:59:52] office really active uses and so there's a wayfinding and a [1:59:57] Clarity aspect to that which you know when we spun through you could see at [2:00:03] the at the lobby at the restaurant uh e more than [2:00:08] 75% when you get to a unit you know obviously if you live in a highrise and you're up 200 F feet all [2:00:16] glass is great because nobody's looking in at you but if you live at grade [2:00:22] and you have 75% transparency you're just going to pull your blinds all the [2:00:28] time and so to to um your point commissioner felt to me having that feel [2:00:36] comfortable as you're walking through is to have a little more opacity so you're [2:00:41] not in your bedroom feeling like you have to close your blinds or you know in your at the dining table feeling like [2:00:49] everyone's looking in at you because that that can also create that situation [2:00:55] where you don't want to walk through there and you don't want to live there so that that's a that's a it's a good [2:01:01] question and that's a one of the main reasons is Comfort but also Clarity of [2:01:07] use also so that where there is a restaurant you know that's a restaurant [2:01:14] because you you can see that through the through the design awesome thank you [2:01:31] thanks for your presentation nice to see you gentlemen again um let's see [2:01:38] starting with um the parking currently um I don't know whether or not you're [2:01:44] aware but um the parking lot in front of the Macy site fills up like um it's F [2:01:50] it's far Fuller when Macy's is closed than when it's open with people who are [2:01:56] um coming to go to the park so you basically [2:02:02] um I'm I'm I think I heard you say that the parking is for um people who live [2:02:09] there and are coming to the retail establishments not for people who going into the [2:02:15] Park public parking on the first floor okay so that's the entire public is [2:02:21] welcome regardless um um residences on the first floor um [2:02:27] you're not concerned at all about noise or safety or security I'd be glad to speak to that [2:02:35] part of it is well it's the old eyes on the street saying um which we' like to [2:02:41] say a lot but um part they we we've been very um [2:02:46] specific in our design to have a little bit of landscape between and a little bit of height different so that your [2:02:53] stoop might be they're around they vary but around 2 3 feet off the ground so [2:03:00] that separation and elevation and that Landscaping buffer is a nice way to make [2:03:07] that feel like you can live on it and you can also walk by it um and feel safe [2:03:14] and you know there's people with dogs love them they can walk right out and so [2:03:21] there's that at least uh there's a good amount of people who they prefer that obviously there will be some people who [2:03:29] that that's not for them but then they'll live a little higher but there are a good amount of people that really [2:03:35] do prefer that condition um and you brought up um dogs [2:03:41] um so you've got a dog park up by the northeast corner um and you mentioned [2:03:47] that that is a will be a public dog park it will not just be for the residents [2:03:52] um and you're aware that in addition to [2:03:58] however many dogs owned by the residents there are hundreds of people that walk their dogs by there every single day and [2:04:04] you're prepared for that from your amenti perspective okay great um um [2:04:11] where are the [2:04:16] playgrounds where the there is not a playground programmed on this site okay and [2:04:22] um are the are going to be I'm sorry I don't think we talked about how many bedrooms we're going to see in all these [2:04:28] in these um different buildings two bedrooms three [2:04:34] bedrooms and the I can speak on behalf of the every building except the [2:04:40] Southwest Building will have a mix of Studios ones twos and threes the two East buildings will also include [2:04:45] twostory town home walkouts okay and so you are in [2:04:51] participating than um families with children I assume if there's three [2:04:57] bedrooms as far as the rental uh the three buildings that I mentioned so not the Southwest uh building where the [2:05:04] that's Lo the for sale product the rentals um the market has really evolved [2:05:09] over time and it is a very wide variety of people that are renters now it's [2:05:14] really opened up it used to be slightly dominated by some classic demographics but it's so yes families would be part [2:05:21] of that there would be some families uh it just triggered a memory in my mind uh at the start of this uh presentation I [2:05:27] just want to clarify at least my understanding feel free to tell me if I'm off- based uh um anybody I believe [2:05:33] this is actually the Richfield School District there's A's I clarified that earlier Sor and he said it was Edina [2:05:41] I'll double check that it's Richfield Richfield that's [2:05:46] okay thank you for clarifying that um what kind of in did you get from [2:05:52] Neighbors when you met with them initially uh 100% resounding support uh [2:06:00] I'm teasing no uh we um you know it was [2:06:06] uh it was this you know we did two neighborhood meetings one was well attended one frankly was very lightly [2:06:12] attended I can't remember we almost had it was either one person or or is very lightly attended um the feedback at [2:06:19] those two meetings especially the first one um I would say I you know I would [2:06:26] say down the middle you know we received some comments of people you know that had opinions about density a lot of the [2:06:31] stuff you're hearing here tonight um we had some people excited about a potential uh you know enhancement to the [2:06:37] public realm and as time went on and there was more discussion about a connection across France Avenue excitement about that so it was a [2:06:44] balance um we heard a lot restaurants was desire for restaurants desire for [2:06:51] public park all the positives that you're aware of we tried to things that people were interested in wanted we tried to incorporate so that's a lot of [2:06:57] the things we've highlighted tonight but um where there some people oppose certainly um through that [2:07:03] process you mentioned that you're going to um put in solar panels how much energy do you anticipate will be [2:07:09] produced by those solar panels we have not sized the systems yet [2:07:15] uh one thing that we're weighing right now which is fluid as you may be aware there's tariffs going back and forth uh [2:07:22] between two large Powerhouse countries right now and solar panels are in the middle of that discussion and depending [2:07:28] on when we actually place an order and procure the cost of solar panels will vastly differ so we will do some solar [2:07:35] panel array but depending on the economics we don't know what size it'll be typically what we do is we try to [2:07:40] size it to meet the house meter so all of the kind of amenity areas hallways [2:07:46] the solar panel array would be size to to that demand all the common spaces [2:07:52] yeah but in in this scenario because of the uncertainty of what's going to unfold over the next 18 months hard to [2:07:57] commit to the exact size right now um and all bicycles will uh need to [2:08:03] be parked underground yep we can achieve that uh for for private residences we [2:08:11] will still provide public bicycle parking as well at grade out of [2:08:16] convenience for the for anyone visiting the site [2:08:26] um so the rendering looks like it has um bikes and pedestrians together I don't [2:08:32] know if you're planning on separating that on the prominade um they are separated um but I [2:08:38] don't see uh a separation uh on your uh [2:08:44] East West Street in the middle is that correct we we have not envisioned a [2:08:49] separate bike lane okay yeah and I think [2:08:54] that that the idea is pedestrian first sometimes sometimes bikes I I have been [2:09:01] a biker I am a biker sometimes you go too fast and and irritating the [2:09:07] pedestrians but I feel like that as pedestrian first gives the idea that hey [2:09:12] you're not supposed to bike fast through here one of the great opportunities of [2:09:18] this site of course is the Nine Mile Creek uh District path so there's still a route [2:09:24] that flanks specifically for bikes along the south side of the site so I guess we we anticipate bikes using that more than [2:09:32] the the center area just by the convenience factor of it in one of your documents [2:09:40] um I believe it's this um North South Street in the middle here is referred to [2:09:47] as a secondary new local Street and it's stated as a ser [2:09:52] Corridor um which certainly goes to the point earlier made about moving and [2:09:57] trash and things like that so I'm wondering if it really does qualify [2:10:03] um um as a public card or or you know or what that does to the street Room [2:10:11] concept because it I mean it does sound like it would be used large a lot for utility vehicles moving things like that [2:10:18] and there's this big pedestrian and Crossing in the middle so could you [2:10:25] talk could you address that [2:10:31] please yeah I can I go ahead why you start Patrick you first no go uh I mean [2:10:38] you're I mean you're right it's uh you know mixed use development there's a lot of things going on here and it's not you know it's not a car first uh uh [2:10:46] development but that North South Road is the you know that is the you can see even visually here um asphalt pavement [2:10:52] that is the vehicle uh Corridor as far as parking from the public people visiting the site the intent is as we um [2:11:00] uh outlined is the first floor of all the four buildings would be that public parking option for the public coming [2:11:06] into the site there are some surver stalls on the north side of that Northwest building um the intention is [2:11:12] that if there is utility things happening there is movein that that we've given them a spot those parallel stalls and we can mark them off and get [2:11:18] them off that road to stop not block traffic um we've intentionally done that um but obviously you know it's going to [2:11:25] be dense and there's going to be a lot going on and um it you know there's going to be competing forces there for [2:11:31] sure okay and last thing I want to talk about is the Southwest Building um so [2:11:37] this is going to be uh 49 senior condos correct correct and what makes it [2:11:47] a uh senior condo so will have some age qualifications to it so it'll be kind of [2:11:54] a 55 plus um condition there will be a certain portion of those units that we [2:11:59] would build in some flexibility say 20% of the ownership could be below or [2:12:05] younger than that 55 um age qualification we haven't landed on exactly what that threshold [2:12:12] would be but there would be some built-in accomodation where it's not 100% kind of the empty nester profile [2:12:19] but it will be kind of marketed toward that buyer and does that mean there are any particular kind of senior amenities [2:12:26] that come with those units there are specific amenities for that [2:12:31] residential space uh similar to what you'd see in more of the market rate uh Apartments but there's no Services [2:12:38] contemplated within that building um so there would be like wider doors and things like that right we would end up [2:12:45] having probably 3- foot uh standard openings throughout every home or unit within that um particular building but [2:12:52] again to kind of your question and so I'm very clear there would be no active [2:12:57] um kind of Aging Services allowed or rooms uh specifically for that aside [2:13:03] from the buil-in ability if somebody was doing recuperative care we have more of [2:13:10] a wellness Studio contemplated as part of our amenities um that that could have [2:13:16] you know machines that would accommodate somebody going through um just General [2:13:21] Life recuperative uh care um and it looked from one of the drawings I didn't [2:13:26] see it in uh the text but that all are [2:13:31] all of the units in the Southwest Building uh [2:13:37] residential units facing north or is that just I just it looked like that's where the balconies were yeah so the [2:13:45] residential portion of that building has more of a u shape with the opening towards the South [2:13:51] so that it is double lined corridors along that u-shape so not all units face [2:13:57] North some do face South but there but are the balconies [2:14:04] only facing north no there are some balconies that face South as well there's two fairly prominent uh larger [2:14:12] balconies that come up on the the renderings that are Southward facing then they're also more of um visually [2:14:20] integr ated balconies on kind of the internal Corridor units and [2:14:27] um as far as uh so uh 10% of that population is going to be for lowincome [2:14:34] which would be for lowincome seniors it would be for owners that meet the qualifications [2:14:41] at 80% Ami correct um so and and how does that manifest itself in [2:14:49] terms of the price is it lower price is it lower is it lower um borrowing rate [2:14:54] is it extended term so it end up just relating to the purchase or that sale [2:15:00] price of those units making sure that those are able to be afforded by people that meet that 80% Ami so we will have [2:15:08] um not only the age qualification for people that live in that building but for those specific five units that have [2:15:15] been identified there would also be an income qualification that corresponds with meeting that Ami thre [2:15:21] and then the price is affected only theice okay [2:15:27] thanks can can you give us your name yeah sorry Ben landh Houser lifestyle [2:15:33] communities are at 4938 Lincoln dve B Dino [2:15:39] Minnesota all right thank you very much for your presentation and all your answers today uh just a few more I think [2:15:45] I think uh just just a few so the diagonal diagonal curb Park on the North [2:15:51] why do we need that uh the parking on the North it's [2:15:57] really to Aid the success of of restaurants if it doesn't have to be there but we want to give the best [2:16:03] fighting chance of having success with restaurants and that's that's why it's there it's almost like teaser parking [2:16:08] for for restaurant [2:16:14] users do you really need teaser parking do we need it you know it's not [2:16:19] an answer that I personally don't need it uh based on discussions with Brokers and Prospect tenants that have looked at [2:16:25] this site it's something they recommend but it is it needed I can't answer that [2:16:30] directly yeah no I think I think I understand your answer it's just frustrating um then on the surface [2:16:37] parking right up down right right in the middle I I understand what you're saying [2:16:43] about service Vehicles occasional moving trucks what have you you don't know what [2:16:48] large vehicle may show up on any given day for what purpose but the all the pictures we see [2:16:54] here have cars parked there and I just for the life of me can't figure out why you need to park cars [2:17:01] there yeah th those would be a few parallel stalls just for quick coming [2:17:07] and going like uber drop off or I mean it could be I [2:17:13] guess I don't know if they'd be signed or not but I get that it seems it sound your answer just sounded kind of car [2:17:19] cars first to me and I I'm not a developer I don't have [2:17:25] to worry about the same things you do but I sympathize with you on on the the [2:17:32] angled parking also the the UN well the place we are in time is that people are [2:17:39] used to Big surface parking lots in front of buildings and it's so convenient and [2:17:45] easy and we're trying to balance and have a tiny bit of [2:17:52] that for a lot of people that that's what is very normal um yeah so so I so [2:18:01] Grant you the teaser parking on the north but the the the street the curb parking in the middle there doesn't seem [2:18:08] like it's really all that close to any of your restaurants I'm thinking about it more from the pers perspective of somebody [2:18:14] who's a pedestrian crossing the street there on your beautiful prominade that goes right down the middle of your of [2:18:19] your property yeah and I'm going to the East and uh I'm [2:18:25] going Eastward from the buildings on the left and when I turn left when I look [2:18:31] left I see parked cars when I look interfering with my view of oncoming cars when I look right I see Park cars [2:18:37] interviewing with my view of oncoming Park cars and I've got [2:18:45] 1,349 off street parking spots in the facility 20% more than [2:18:53] Adina recommends or requires and AD is usually pretty expansive 30% more than [2:18:59] the consultant recommends and I'm still parking cars on the middle of this beautiful place and I just can't believe [2:19:06] it it has to be that way I think it's a a fair comment I think something that as [2:19:12] a overall development team we've continued to kind of wrestle with what are those uses and I think to some of [2:19:19] the questions that were asked ear earlier about you know the logistical pieces that are necessary to support [2:19:25] kind of the buildings that are being proposed we haven't landed on exactly what that formula is but I think more [2:19:31] recent conversations as we develop some of those logistical exhibits that are in your packet are telling us more than [2:19:39] likely those are shortterm stays for the Amazon FedEx [2:19:45] USPS some of those things that they're probably not utilized often but they are [2:19:51] necessary to be successful for the development and if we do need some of those on street parking for the [2:19:57] short-term quick grabin I forgot something um without going into the parking ramp that's also an [2:20:03] accommodation that they afford but I don't know that you're going to hear from us today with where we are in this [2:20:08] process that we have it exactly figured out exactly how many of those spaces are [2:20:15] necessary and if they should be um more identified as loading zone [2:20:21] locations parking locations or the like fair enough thank you for the [2:20:27] answer my my concern is wherever you make a a space for a car there's going [2:20:33] to be a car especially in as dense a place as this and we like density but when you make a home for a car this car [2:20:39] is going to live there correct um and if I was a renter in your building would I pay extra or I pay for a parking spot in [2:20:46] addition to the rent on my apartment or is it all rolled together it's an extra charge okay so those are [2:20:53] going to be filled up by residents if you allow because you're going to say I don't want to pay them 100 bucks a month [2:20:59] to park my car in the garage I'm going to park there where the nice spots are so this that's more pressure on that [2:21:05] real estate on that beautiful area in the middle last question on that can you [2:21:10] raise that pedestrian walkway going east west when it crosses that road in theid in the middle that is the intention of [2:21:16] the design right now fantastic thank you [2:21:22] um I I assume spend a very short amount of time explaining why you need so many [2:21:30] off street spots compared to our requirement and compared to the [2:21:36] consultant yeah I can um respond to that uh so um first I appreciate the feedback [2:21:44] we've heard from WSB City standards um obviously there's many different viewpoints on what the apprpriate amount [2:21:50] parking is or what's needed admittedly we're looking at the parking here too and wondering if we can ratchet it back [2:21:56] a little bit so we're actually going through that process right now to see if we can take out more so I want you to know that we're on the same page if we [2:22:01] can reduce more parking we want to we came up with the parking plan based on parking ratios or industry standards on [2:22:08] the multif family side of thing that's something that Enclave is really familiar with based on other projects on the retail side of things we've been [2:22:15] relying on Experts and admittedly we've been we've been sizing the parking for a high demand restaurant high demand [2:22:21] restaurants have like you know 10 to one or plus 10 to a thousand square feet [2:22:27] parking requirements so um as we kind of fine-tune this uh to Ben's point and [2:22:32] time goes on we might I think there's an opportunity to reduce parking and uh just I want to say your point is well [2:22:38] taken on that center aisle it's something that we wrestled with with that parallel parking and one thing we are contemplating is do we just is is it [2:22:45] just not parking is it just a you know marked off staging area so there isn't confusion so people aren't you know had [2:22:51] the problem that you mentioned so appreciate the comment with something we're still trying to program through okay thank [2:22:59] you just quick wasn't there a design intent in here to be able to convert some of your parking stalls into usable [2:23:05] space right that's okay okay so um most of my questions [2:23:14] were answered by my fellow Commissioners um but getting back to the north south street for a second um are there no [2:23:20] boulevards between the sidewalk and the street there is it just the curb up against the sidewalk and how wide is the [2:23:29] sidewalk if I may the the so the North to South Road there is a 60 foot wide Corridor and I know that there was some [2:23:36] level of guidance why we did that I'm not going to try to take the stab at the the guideline but we did it was a 60 [2:23:42] foot wide Corridor and we struggled with do we try to get green on both sides of [2:23:47] this Corridor and have a heavy pedestrian Corridor on both sides have some sort of staging drop off area uh [2:23:54] and then also two lanes of traffic we just running out of room so we had to make decisions um so the strategy right [2:24:00] now is the east side of that north to south Corridor we'll have vegetation and green so it's not a full bevard but [2:24:06] there will be green added some trees and some breaking up of the sidewalk there will be a north to south sidewalk on [2:24:12] both sides of the road admittedly the one on the east side will be more attractive and welcoming a little bit [2:24:17] wider the one on the west side will be a little bit more functional a little bit less breathing room okay [2:24:23] thank you um and the problem I just go further on that that's not GNA be a werf right [2:24:31] there's not going to be like trucks parked on there for deliveries or anything like that great comment and uh worth [2:24:38] highlighting so um the answer is no to the direct answer the the east to west [2:24:44] prominade between the two East buildings is designed as an emergency fire Access Lane um there's a access or a Turney [2:24:52] movement plan included in our plan set for reference but it can accommodate a fire apparatus there's a disguised [2:24:57] Hammerhead at the end of that along the prominade um so we're trying to balance uh public safety requirements along the [2:25:05] east side there to the West um it's going to we're there's the the design [2:25:10] includes essentially a turnaround so you could and I don't know how to describe the standards without pulling them up uh [2:25:15] and showing you but almost like a using a small leg of of the west side of the promo is a turn in and then back out [2:25:23] moment for a fire apparatus and then also fire apparatus could park there set up and run a ladder to the north or [2:25:29] south building as well um one of the challenges we're running into is there's underground parking located between [2:25:35] those two buildings so the further we run a fire apparatus the more structure we have to add to the below ground parking and so we're trying to balance [2:25:42] that and then uh what I didn't mention before um police cars [2:25:48] ambulances uh urgent pick up and drop offs uh is another thing that we're trying to balance here with kind of all [2:25:55] this discussion and where where do they go and especially if someone doesn't understand the site there's an emergency or something really urgent the intent is [2:26:02] only special circumstances go onto that East West prominade there's no there's no Amazon Prime truck com in there that [2:26:11] was a concern that's very good to hear I mean I don't think anyone cares about fire trucks going on there that's that's [2:26:16] a good thing um uh question answered question answered [2:26:24] um so so about the you answer the question [2:26:29] about the 75% transparency and that makes a lot of sense um in areas where [2:26:36] there's where there's housing I mean that totally makes sense right nobody wants a glass wall there um but there [2:26:42] are areas that like there's art or something where you know it's it's like covering up a wall that's probably for [2:26:48] parking or something right um have any of those areas especially if you're if we're trying to get you to [2:26:54] reduce parking are any of those areas I mean if you can reclaim parking space [2:26:59] the ideal space for us would be publicly visible space you know um and so [2:27:06] if if there's any of those if You' thought about any of that it'd be good to keep those kind of spaces most [2:27:13] accessible is what getting at um let's [2:27:18] see um same thing about the green walls on the south side where it's like you know that's it's really not great [2:27:29] um and then on the North side is that are those supposed to be um the north [2:27:35] side the Northwest building are those uh balconies that we're seeing or it looks like cars or something what's we're see [2:27:42] we're seeing from way up in the sky so those would be balconies those balconies not that great okay um [2:27:51] okay uh that's it for my questions so now we're going to I'm [2:27:57] sorry Luke can I ask one sure I think this is for director Teague actually do [2:28:02] you happen to know off the top of your head how tall the bower is and how tall the Weston is both of them good thank [2:28:11] you that's it all right um so let's see here [2:28:21] need a motion to to open the public hearing sorry B we need a motion to open [2:28:29] the public hearing open okay okay it's just closing okay okay first time you [2:28:35] know um all right we're gonna open the public [2:28:40] hearing um and we will now hear from residents who would like to provide testimony individuals who want to [2:28:47] provide input remotely are we still not remote [2:28:52] we are not remote okay do I need to read this then or you probably do not because [2:28:58] the people who are joining us remote are already on the line okay yep so can they [2:29:04] hear they can't hear us though they can't speak yep they can hear us oh they can okay all right so I do want to read [2:29:10] this then right um well they're already on the phone call I got you all right so skip the first [2:29:17] paragraph this shouldn't happen my first time um all right so we don't need to worry [2:29:24] about muting your speaker okay please begin speaking by [2:29:30] giving your name and address for the record you will then have three minutes to speak remember it is not necessary to [2:29:35] provide testimony if you have already provided comments via voicemail or bet together [2:29:40] d.org uh call in if you have new comments or information to bring forward so but first we will [2:29:47] have people in the audience right speak would anybody like to speak you have [2:29:52] three minutes to [2:29:58] speak just say your name and address Patrick Dwayne uh 7220 York thank you [2:30:05] thank you for your service you know government by the people for the people like you said the walk on the prominade [2:30:12] and Centennial Lakes is extraordinary it's really the the the goose that laid [2:30:17] the golden egg I've lived my wife and for four years and love it I walk at [2:30:22] least 10,000 steps every day so I know all of this quite well the issue of wind [2:30:29] just want to correct something right now there's very little wind where that is because it's blocked by trees and [2:30:36] bushes you just someone just mentioned the the bower the bower is a wind [2:30:42] catastrophe when it's 30 it feels like 10 when it's 10 it feels below zero when it's below zero even I don't walk past [2:30:49] the Bower to get to the um to get to the other side so my concern is eight stories just [2:31:00] 34 feet from the prominade I mean that's basically a Vikings first down that's [2:31:06] not much space at all and that there's going to be an East West Canyon that's [2:31:11] going to run through there which like the Straits of Gibralter or the Straits of MAA is just going to create all kinds [2:31:18] of wind that's not going to be good for the pedestrians now I'm PR growth I like [2:31:24] a lot of what's been talked about here but our development doesn't go up that high the one uh adjacent to the the uh [2:31:33] Lun B Le which was built recently doesn't go up that high either neither of those developments cause a wind [2:31:39] problem um and I'm also concerned about blocking out uh the light so love living [2:31:47] here on progrowth um like all the thought that you all put into it and I I [2:31:53] will welcome all of your residents as residents because the more the merrier thank you thank you for your comments [2:32:01] anyone else hello my name is Judy Buck I live at 06 covry place in Adina I also work [2:32:08] in cenia Lakes Park and I do have a concern about the parking um the traffic expert her comment where I wrote it down [2:32:15] exactly was well there's already so much traffic already and that's very true and people come in where I work all the time [2:32:22] and are Contin and I've worked there for over 10 years talking about the increase in traffic so I do think that's an issue [2:32:29] I also have a dog when I first saw the map with the dog [2:32:34] park I worry about it because somebody else mentioned there are a lot of dogs there's a lot of buildings it seems like [2:32:41] there's potential for it being chaotic um director Teague talked about one of the pluses is making a bigger biker [2:32:47] bigger bike path but then on the flip side it seems like a contradiction to say well it's going to be very [2:32:53] pedestrian friendly and a lot of those Trails feed into the bike path so I do [2:32:58] worry about no additional bike path um also there was request for Less street [2:33:04] level height less transparency less setbacks but then Mr wette says proportions really matter and they do [2:33:11] matter Green Space really matters and just like for me a classic example is 51st in France I mean I just drive [2:33:18] through there in my car and I literally crank because there's no proportions there's no setbacks and I feel like [2:33:24] walking from Centennial Lakes which is a gorgeous Park beautiful proportions and then boom we get dumped into that corner [2:33:32] of that Southeast there's very little setback there's very little user friendly the [2:33:38] restaurants on the other end like if the restaurant was there if there was a patio I just there seems like there [2:33:44] could be more flow it could be a better transition from a beautiful Park versus giant an edifice which is how it feels [2:33:51] from looking at the renderings um and then I only have a question and maybe it's been addressed and I've just missed [2:33:56] it regarding restaurant concepts are we talking more Mr Noodles or Chow Bella or a [2:34:03] combination I guess that okay all right but thanks for your [2:34:08] time thank you for your comments [2:34:19] hi David Frankle 4510 Lakefield dve you Dina uh one thing it's probably a simple question for the architect but I've read [2:34:27] not heard today anything about the Americans with Disability Act Ada if this whole development is going to be [2:34:32] ADA Compliant also it's a little bit ironic uh as you may know the Legacy back to this site is the Dayton Brothers [2:34:39] in Southdale Dayton do not get a nickel of public money when they build South they'll and this site and on top of that [2:34:46] they donate the land for where currently Sou Fairview Hospital resides I don't [2:34:52] see any need for the site to get Tiff financing it's a beautiful piece of land [2:34:57] why is it being subsid subsidized by taxpayer money the other issue is didn't [2:35:03] see a some type of rendering of this proposed pedestrian bridge over France Avenue that's going to be a major [2:35:09] structure it's not a matter of a little Bridge go over to the 9 M Creek Trail [2:35:14] crossing over Highway 100 and you can see a 5% grade of a ramp off of a bridge [2:35:21] that has to be at least 15 ft to meet mindat standards it's a long ramp on [2:35:26] both sides can that build stairs can that build an elevator that was proposed for a cross town uh pedestrian Bridgman [2:35:33] that will not go for it neither will Helen County the other thing is the 9 m [2:35:39] c Creek Trail there's no rationale to why that trail needs to be widen I bike [2:35:45] that trail a couple times a week it is not very busy unfortunately there's no [2:35:50] need to widen the trail I'm just worried the underline reason to do this is so [2:35:55] they can pull it out and use that during the construction process that is not the reason to have that 9M Creek Trail there [2:36:02] me it should be used for residents as a quality of life trail and I hope 9mile Creek does not allow it to be pulled out [2:36:08] and widened it's the way it is right now the other issue is the crossing at France and Gallagher there are creative [2:36:15] ways to make that intersection not only safer for non-motorized but to make it flow more frequently for cars if you go [2:36:23] down the lake bacasa Richfield Road and um Barry Parkway the Minneapolis Park [2:36:30] Board is put in a four-way Crossing for pedestrians and bikers you press a [2:36:35] button when you want to cross and then it will it will put the lights to Red [2:36:40] for that Crossing if it's only one Crossing only one light changes if all four Crossings are pushed the whole [2:36:47] intersection is blocked not only is that only used then for pedestrians and bikers it allows the [2:36:54] flow of traffic when there are no bikers there in the middle of the night so it's Innovative things the city needs to look [2:37:00] at instead of looking at things black and white and I think you need more outside input from not not from experts [2:37:08] but from residents who use these types of things like myself the trail is not heavily used and I'm hoping they're not [2:37:14] talking about tearing down the trees along the 9M Creek Trail those trees are mature they're healthy there's no reason [2:37:21] to take those down I'm one who believes in Bell tightening just because you have the money there's no reason to go spend [2:37:27] it thank you thank you for your comments anyone else [2:37:35] here [2:37:41] yes I'm Jeanie Kosar and I'm at 7200 York and I have to say I've walked the [2:37:48] uh prominent for 20 years but I've lived down here for 10 years and yes the [2:37:55] prominade is very special as is Centennial Lakes and it was the whole [2:38:02] meeting presentation was most interesting because I think some of the graphics were uh more helpful than just [2:38:09] seeing the plans but I think there's work that needs to be done because I agree with the first gentleman as far as [2:38:16] the wind and the cold and you have this big wall of buildings that all of a [2:38:22] sudden is should be gradually coming into the greenest area that we have on [2:38:28] the prominade and it's it's a delightful thing but now you have this big wall [2:38:34] which takes out the sunsets takes out the lights and um I would like to see [2:38:40] step down maybe to five4 five um stories [2:38:45] on the prominade I know there's an issue of income and this sort of thing but you need to also look at those who use it a [2:38:52] lot and some of you may not walk the prominade often but we have residents [2:38:58] who walk two and three times a day and there are families and it's busy and I [2:39:04] also have an issue with the dog park I like dogs but do you know what that's [2:39:10] going to smell like in the summertime at 90 some degrees I mean that's just what [2:39:15] they do and I that concentration and that location I think would be an [2:39:22] Abomination and um let's see what else do I have I think that's probably about [2:39:28] it for the moment but I'm sure you'll hear from me if I think of something else thank you thank you very [2:39:38] much hello I'm ulia kova I'm from the same crowd from 7220 York Avenue um so [2:39:47] I'm one of the residents owners of a directly across from the prominade um uh [2:39:54] from the proposed uh development and um it's been really great to actually hear [2:39:59] all of these comments and to see the visuals so I do want to say I appreciate [2:40:04] like the the you know the inevitable change and the development that comes with the neighborhood um I do want to [2:40:11] live and when I moved here several years ago um I did want to live in a vibrant [2:40:16] neighborhood but also kind of committed to having a vibr vibrant neighborhood around me but also having a home that I [2:40:26] return to to be in like a quiet park-like setting um and so what [2:40:31] concerns me about this proposal is just a sheer size and density of it in what [2:40:37] is a relatively small space for that area and not just for ad but specifically for the Centennial Lakes [2:40:43] area and like and I guess the adjacent prominade and so um I know there's been [2:40:49] a lot of things mentioned about parking lot and you know the wind and the shadow [2:40:56] and um you know the garage the Green Space it all of that ultimately boils [2:41:01] down at how much you can pack and squeeze into that space and you know between 600 residential units I don't [2:41:07] know how many thousands of people that will be plus roughly this is very rough math but 70,000 or so square fet of [2:41:15] office space 177,000 Square ft of retail um that's a lot of commotion all of it [2:41:23] being brought in essentially into what is currently a fairly tucked away [2:41:29] peaceful Park um and people use it all the time it's a it's a walkway that is [2:41:38] you know has wildlife and flowers and uh people walking by without the streets [2:41:45] from like France and York kind of um jumping into that middle and um again I like that if there is [2:41:52] going to be development that we have mixed use like it's not just you know the bow that sort of towers over [2:41:58] everyone in that neighborhood um just stands there and creates wind and Shadow um but it's um I like that there's going [2:42:05] to be a couple of restaurants here and there and all of that sounds great but if we could maybe just tame it a little [2:42:12] bit and think of all of the existing residential areas surrounding it [2:42:19] the people that committed to those areas and to those buildings and communities [2:42:25] and how that's going to change essentially that entire um both the park setting the the the prominade area and [2:42:33] essentially our backyard because our property is literally like tens of feet away maybe from from what is going to be [2:42:40] built so um whether it's shrinking it in size or in height or just in density in [2:42:46] general um I'm not sure I'll leave that up to you folks but um I think that's [2:42:51] one of the bigger concerns from everyone that lives and uses that area on a daily basis so thank you thank you for your [2:43:03] comments okay do you have anybody on the line we do have two people on the line [2:43:10] but they have not indicated that they want to speak so I just want to remind them if they would like to speak please [2:43:16] press star three on your um phone right now and then I will unmute your [2:43:39] line neither of them have indicated yet so I think it's save to proceed okay great thank you do we have [2:43:46] a motion to close the public hearing motion CL close second all in favor say I I I okay [2:43:56] uh public meeting is closed now it comes back to the commission we could start on [2:44:02] this side if you guys want to you comments wow okay I'll [2:44:11] start um you know it's a large complex project [2:44:21] so um and we I thought there a lot of great questions and comments from the [2:44:27] commission today and from residents who took the time to come and share their [2:44:34] thoughts it's difficult to at the end of the day though we need to come up with a binary yes or no do we support this or [2:44:41] do we not support this even though that sometimes the balance may be easy [2:44:47] sometimes the balance may be hard I want to congratulate the applicant on [2:44:53] a response to Prior uh interactions with Planning [2:44:58] Commission and I believe the city council also that was before your first time with the Planning [2:45:04] Commission was before I was back on the planning commissions I think I saw it on the video but I think there's been some [2:45:10] really good responsiveness to this I see in the overall [2:45:15] plan a lot of value being delivered to the community it's not perfect I mean I'll [2:45:23] harp endlessly about parking but I can see the the overall value that's [2:45:29] potentially delivered to the community here um I think it's interesting to [2:45:35] think about our role as planning Commissioners we're responsible not only to um to be faithful to the [2:45:42] comprehensive plan to the extent that we can and to the zoning ordinance to the extent that we [2:45:47] can uh and current residents who use these resources and who are adjacent to [2:45:53] these this potential project but also to a certain extent to represent future residents um and who who might become [2:46:01] parts of our community and uh I think this project [2:46:07] has a lot to offer all of the stakeholders people who live here now people who live in other [2:46:13] parts of Adina that are not adjacent to this property and people who will join us uh in the future [2:46:20] you know I think there's been been a lot of concern about height and uh no discussion tonight but some Rumblings [2:46:27] from the community about the R1 setback for me I take a lot of uh [2:46:35] comfort in the fact that the density that's proposed here is within the range of what's prescribed in the [2:46:41] comprehensive plan so it's not it's it's consistent with what we as a city have [2:46:47] said we want to do in this part of our city and to me that goes a long way as [2:46:53] far as the height of the building I think it's useful to note the height of the bower and the height of the West and [2:46:58] although you know that all by itself would not be decisive or persuasive to me it's interesting to note and a and a [2:47:04] data point for me when I think about this project and the R1 [2:47:12] setback I don't particularly view that as an obstacle given the value that the [2:47:17] project delivers and I really I have a hard time Discerning what [2:47:23] we're protecting R1 residents from especially since there are human [2:47:29] residents who live just southeast of this proposed project that don't seem to be protected from [2:47:35] anything um because it's not our one it's a condo I having a hard time really [2:47:42] valuing that in my in my um in my deliberation so all in all I'm I'm if I [2:47:49] to support this I applaud the work of the the applicant and look forward to hearing what my fellow Commissioners [2:47:55] have to [2:48:06] say I think the criteria uh for PUD is [2:48:12] um Innovation design not achievable via traditional zoning um so that basically [2:48:19] what I think that that you're looking for here and hoping to achieve with this [2:48:25] large and important project um and I [2:48:31] think in many ways you have done that um but I also think there are a lot of [2:48:36] unresolved issues um and this [2:48:42] isn't as good as it can be um [2:48:50] when a a quote from the design guidelines is overarching objective to maximize pedestrian activity within the [2:48:57] public realm as a connective tissue that gives a district its unique identity and [2:49:03] I um don't feel that I can say that that is being achieved um here with these [2:49:12] with these renderings um I um believe in the [2:49:19] um the density um that that we're trying to to um achieve um I believe in growth [2:49:27] I would um I think it would be great to have more people enjoying the wonderful [2:49:33] park that's right here but I also think um uh there's a [2:49:39] lack of um detail um on enhancing [2:49:44] pedestrian experience um in terms of the bike in terms of this [2:49:51] North South Street which is il defined um I have a very great concern about um [2:50:00] the shade and the wind particularly the wind and as had been mentioned before uh [2:50:05] if you walk by the bower all of a sudden the climate changes um in terms of the wind and the temperature and and that's [2:50:12] an issue and I be concerned about the um seven story uh Northeast and Southeast [2:50:20] buildings as well um I think the the South View from [2:50:26] Gallagher I know you talked about um making it a green wall and that wasn't how the the picture was but um it to me [2:50:33] it looked imposing and severe I guess that would be softened a little bit by the green wall um but I still think I [2:50:40] still think that's an issue for because a high traffic area um the traffic study as I mentioned as I [2:50:48] alluded to before um I just think there are too many exceptions under the 2025 [2:50:53] build scenario um Mick Johnson had put in his comments [2:51:00] and um he says the character in shape uh reduced um to a bare minimum and I'm [2:51:06] wondering whether if we could have varied facades to make it look you know [2:51:11] more Village like um and when I look at um um the pretty [2:51:19] pictures of what the uh connector was going to look like the um East West Connector I did [2:51:27] think to myself I don't think I'd go there um so I think [2:51:35] um I'm not really quite sure how much it offers and I think it is imperative that [2:51:40] it offers something to the public um possibly a playground but I would um I [2:51:48] would like to see another iteration of this project in order for me to support it thank [2:52:05] you all right well complex project complex thoughts um I guess first of all [2:52:13] you know I thank residents for being here tonight and providing your input uh to us it's I always appreciate hearing [2:52:19] firsthand you know either in person or through better together at Dina so it's always nice to hear from from the [2:52:24] community even big projects big and small and so obviously this one as the [2:52:30] site that's located as how big it is it's going to generate a lot of uh um excitement and or disappointment [2:52:38] from the community but it's important that we hear both sides of the coin uh so you know we saw this project [2:52:45] back months ago and had sketch plan review with the developer ER and you know I thought that sketch plan review [2:52:51] went pretty well there was definitely a lot for that we gave gave you guys to to unpack um I think did a good job of of [2:53:00] taking a lot of that feedback and um you know putting in a positive [2:53:05] direction right you made a lot of good improvements to this based off sketch plan feedback right so it's in terms of [2:53:11] sustainable buildings policy affordable housing rooftop solar reducing amount of office space increasing retail and [2:53:17] housing um reducing the above ground Garage in the Northwest building I think all those [2:53:23] things are very positive um I think when we saw this at the sketch plan phase I would have been a little bit more [2:53:28] hesitant um I think we've made a good step in the right direction here um you [2:53:35] know to me this is really what PUD zoning is for uh you know the staff [2:53:41] highlighted that in their in their recommendations and we just had a project you know only a few weeks ago [2:53:46] where I would where I strongly disagree that the what PUD was for but this type of complexity uh this type of multi-use [2:53:53] affordable housing everything that we're getting out of this you know I think PUD is very reasonable ask here so in [2:53:59] regards to the zoning type I think that that makes sense it's you know as commissioner [2:54:05] elare said it's not a perfect project by any means I there's certainly things that I would say I would like to see [2:54:11] improved um the architecture piece you know building materials and stuff I I [2:54:18] look at Meson green and like you know that building really got it right there's maybe some of the the the [2:54:23] cladding and stuff on the side of the buildings I think could look a little bit more distinguished I'm not asking Frank Gary to to design this by any [2:54:30] means but um something you know that's prominent right and that really stands out in the Southdale District I think is [2:54:37] what we would hope for ultimately um so maybe there's Improvement that could be made there um when I think about the [2:54:44] connection to the promad and the southeast and Northeast buildings uh I you know the Shade [2:54:52] Wind those are a bit concerning um you know I think of kind of how right so I [2:54:58] used to live in uptown and would be bike on the greenway and run on the greenway fairly frequently and those buildings [2:55:04] would have a lot of more open space directed towards the greenway um these are a bit closed so I I would like it it [2:55:11] would be awesome if those two corners on the Southeast and Northeast residential buildings were a bit more open right [2:55:18] right so that you almost like had Ste just those Corners down so it kind of like opened up a little bit more um Al [2:55:25] if that can still be done I don't know I don't you know again I know we're dealing with financing and affordable [2:55:31] housing and stuff like that but I think that could at least make the space look a little bit more open and not be so closed off to the [2:55:37] prominade um height you know I know it's talked a lot about [2:55:43] um thankfully it's not 18 stories uh I I'm always in favor of like if we don't [2:55:50] have to build it as high then let's not right but this is a part of the town where height you know at least makes a [2:55:56] little bit more sense we're not putting 11 story building you know over by Brar golf course so I know again there's a [2:56:03] push pull here um so I'm okay with it I know I would I probably was one of the [2:56:09] people in the sketch plan that actually you know pushed back and said I would prefer less height I know some said more [2:56:14] right I think it just feels a little bit more like amicable to to The Pedestrian [2:56:20] experience if their the buildings are a little shorter um and then we talk about shade and wind in that regard [2:56:26] too um okay other things you know I wish we at least had some interaction this is [2:56:31] more on the city piece but we talked about the bridge during the sketch plan and obviously we don't have any proposal [2:56:38] for that yet I know there's some push back in terms of we have to study where that makes sense I I'm glad that we're [2:56:44] at least allow accommodating that potentially in the future here um you know as somebody that regularly [2:56:50] traverses through the city on foot I run a lot I basically France is my boundary there's no really good way for me to get [2:56:56] across I just don't prefer not to right so if we can build a bridge whether it's in this site or somewhere else it makes [2:57:01] sense um but it would be nice if I if we would have had something that we could have seen those those two concepts [2:57:07] working together and then of course ultimately how one resident asked about how it conform to ADA requirements and [2:57:14] whatnot um so yeah I mean you know [2:57:20] ultimately I'll I'll back to the Pud zoning ask and what we're [2:57:25] looking at here um we've basically fulfilled in my mind most of the [2:57:31] requirements that we ask of PD zoning and what we give back to the community um I'll return to what commissioner uh B [2:57:40] said on IND you know that PUD is supposed to be Innovation design not achievable by traditional zoning and I think that's what we've [2:57:46] accomplished here and for us to say that we didn't would would be a bit of a [2:57:52] contrast in my mind because this the same commission only a few weeks ago Justified and approved P Zoning for a [2:57:59] simple town home complex that had none of these Design Elements none of this complexity none of this affordable element to it right so this makes sense [2:58:07] from PUD um so I would support it again it's not perfect but I think we it's a step in the right direction [2:58:29] okay so I've been on the fence about this one a little bit and this so I started writing down as I went through [2:58:36] the things that I liked that I like that there's affordable housing in this [2:58:43] project there's 58 on the way to 18800 that we need and we're in 2024 we're [2:58:50] nearly halfway through 2024 so we have five and a half years to find [2:58:55] 18,700 affordable housing units 1,500 I think we've done three 300 so far um [2:59:02] density this is the density is lower than what's allowed or what we've done for the [2:59:07] Civic um Activity Center um so I think [2:59:13] um up to 1100 units [2:59:19] so we're good on the density I appreciate that there's office space I [2:59:24] appreciate that there's at least one two possibly more [2:59:30] restaurants I appreciate that there's public parking I appreciate that there is no well there's minimal surface [2:59:38] parking I mean it's 1% um I like that it's sustainable um it [2:59:46] is on the rapid transit system um I would really love to get that rapid [2:59:51] transit system I am a big fan of the number six bus and I think everybody [2:59:58] should ride it a few times in their life because it's very easy to get down to the U [3:00:04] um the park dedication fees of 2.8 I think the park um has about 50 million in [3:00:12] earmarked monies or monies that they feel like they need um I like the owner occupied portion of this rather than [3:00:20] just rentals I appreciate that part of it as well um I like the program green um I like [3:00:28] the tripartite I like the way it's laid out with the base in the middle and the cap it's [3:00:36] always I mean for 2,000 years it's been a beautiful way to do a building so I appreciate that um I do really [3:00:43] appreciate that this is broken up into four segments this is the first time we've been trying to do this for a long [3:00:50] time with uh uh greater Southdale area and we get [3:00:55] to and this finally we have a project that does this so [3:01:00] um and I like the materials on the building um I especially like what's [3:01:05] been proposed for the parking structures I think that the wavy metal is fantastic [3:01:13] so I'm okay with relaxing some of the material standards for this I'm okay [3:01:18] with the R1 setback because the 130 difference is pretty much the size of [3:01:23] one lot um I'm okay with the setback asks on this [3:01:29] um I am still you know from what I understand [3:01:35] the way ad does Tiff is um is to invest [3:01:42] in the P things that the public can use and for the public benefit and that [3:01:48] whatever taxes that schools are getting the schools continue to get until the Tiff runs out and then the school is [3:01:54] aware of the additional taxes that they will get from this much larger building [3:02:01] so in the future they will have um good [3:02:07] money um and so my concern is [3:02:13] still that your prominade the East West Street um having a lot of residential on it [3:02:22] um I want that street to be a little bit more public and [3:02:30] um you know I said I mean if if it's public parking restaurants office [3:02:37] turning that restaurant um um allowing people to have kind of [3:02:43] work live units on the first FL anything that kind of makes that more active the lobbies do make it more active so I [3:02:49] appreciate that um and [3:02:57] so and that's where the and we don't do the Tiff the [3:03:03] city council does the Tiff but I want to make sure that that East West Street really feels comfortable for anybody [3:03:09] who's like oh that they don't walk in there say this is a residential street somebody else's project I can't go I [3:03:15] can't go walk in here I want people to feel really comfortable know that they have a place that they have a dentist office or they have some place that they [3:03:22] can park their car and they walk through and it's for them as well [3:03:28] um so oh and the wind it's the Venturi effect a bunch of wind the wind it's a [3:03:36] the Venturi effect that's the principle every architect knows that you put two buildings together a bunch of wind [3:03:42] that's going through it has to go faster in between them the trees are very important and will help with that wind [3:03:49] effect so um invest in the trees in the east west Corridor that would help um [3:03:56] but I think this is I think I'm I think I'm going to support this [3:04:02] project um I I am I gota say more excited about the buildings on France [3:04:09] Avenue than the residential ones because this is a prominent spot um but I think [3:04:17] I'm going to end up on the supporting side on this one thank [3:04:22] you vuy effect vuy um how does that work at the bower if that's what's happening [3:04:29] because it's a single building because right along the edge of the bower the wind speeds [3:04:35] up every wind that would have gone through it doesn't move fast around [3:04:43] Galleria or my house or like is it so is it related to height as the ratio I'll [3:04:49] go look it up I'm very curious about this because my grandmother lives at the bower and I just always assumed it was a [3:04:56] windy day when I got there but it's always windy so I'm I'm very curious [3:05:03] um I guess um if we before us a day is [3:05:09] deciding whether or not approving the use as the Pud [3:05:14] um how much in that pyramid of does disc how much further conversation will there [3:05:20] be about these particular buildings [3:05:26] since flushed out you could put conditions on that you would could recommend to the city council um that's [3:05:34] certainly been done before remove a story step it in those types of [3:05:40] things I appreciate how complex this project is and to actually get something [3:05:46] done on this site with this complexity with all of the layers of um code and [3:05:54] the comp plan and and and everything to make it all work and I think you guys have done a really good job um there are [3:06:02] a couple of things you want to tweak um and I think we've talked about those a lot here and I I don't know what sort of [3:06:08] recommendations you would make but I would just I guess strongly encourage the developer to really as you're [3:06:15] fine-tuning things take those in the heart um you know I don't want to kick a dead [3:06:20] horse we've talked about parking we've talked about all the things um I I really do commend you guys because this [3:06:27] is not easy to put together um and we do have other sites in the city where um a [3:06:33] large mixed use development conditions changed and we can't get it done right can't put all [3:06:39] the financing together can't get the construction costs in the right place can't make all the partnership at the right time so I really do appreciate [3:06:46] that um I think um this is a great value add to the city [3:06:51] and um yeah I I I appreciate the [3:06:58] consideration and you can tell just by the fly through that you guys have really thought about some of the details [3:07:04] maybe not every detail that I would like is perfect but um I just the level of work you guys have put into it is really [3:07:10] evident so thank you for [3:07:15] that okay thank you every everyone so um my comments are uh without repeating too [3:07:23] much what other people have said um there are a few places in the city where we can really build density [3:07:30] and certainly between France Avenue and York and 62 and 494 is the primary place [3:07:37] we can do that so um I think this is kind of the ideal place for density and [3:07:43] this is pretty much where it belongs um [3:07:49] and like others I have qualms about some things but overall I think it's it's it's welld designed um uh the it we [3:07:57] broke up the street pattern which is what we're trying to do for the Southdale area um an extension of the [3:08:04] prominade I have concerns about a tunnel or a bridge but that's neither here nor there um I'm a little concerned if if [3:08:11] more people bike along the street Crossing along France that they're going to see more a wall there and that you'll [3:08:18] have more people going there than you will through the uh through the prominade but anyway um I like how the [3:08:27] building is stepped back it seems to follow a lot of the Southdale guidelines [3:08:32] um I like how there's um a variety of Housing and that you have you know like [3:08:38] town homes that face uh much like the bower does that face the uh prominade so [3:08:44] I think that makes it more interesting than just having an apartment wall which is kind of cold um and no one's ever [3:08:51] outside um so I think that was that was really good um I like how on I realize [3:08:57] that nowadays you can't have retail everywhere it's not retail isn't what it used to be but I like how on the edges [3:09:04] and the corners is where the retail is concentrated which makes a lot of sense retail and [3:09:09] restaurants um I like that the prominade is elevated [3:09:15] going across the Central Street I think that that's very important um that will slow cars down there which is a big deal [3:09:23] um my real concern is is the fact that it's kind of overp parked and that some [3:09:28] of these overp parked areas result in blank walls and that [3:09:33] becomes um even if it's not windy it becomes a very boring place to walk past it's like walking past a big box store [3:09:41] um and art helps but it's you know it it doesn't do a lot and same thing with the green wall it helps but it's it's not [3:09:47] the same thing as having a you know a shop or a um but then you know you guys [3:09:54] do make the um lobbies you know uh go out onto the the greenway and stuff so [3:10:01] um I think you guys have have tweaked a lot here and I feel like um it's a good faith effort and um you know it's a [3:10:10] mixture of uses and um it it just kind of follows the pattern I think that [3:10:15] we're looking for for the city um so I'm I'm I'm in favor of this [3:10:20] project so um does anyone want to make a [3:10:29] motion yeah any other comments [3:10:39] no well I'll ask if there any conditions or anything to I don't think there was anybody that any wanted any conditions [3:10:45] to add to this either before a motion okay no I mean someone can make a motion [3:10:50] for whatever reason and then we can discuss it and people can add or ask to add conditions y you know it it will [3:10:57] iterate sure sure right I'll start and I'll motion to recommend the city council um approve the requests subject [3:11:05] to the findings and condition out in outlin in the staff memo so approve the Pud Zoning for this [3:11:12] development second well what oh have discussion [3:11:18] first first and then okay SE first okay thank you no second first [3:11:23] yeah okay now any comments or changes or additions [3:11:29] or conditions nothing okay I don't want to add any [3:11:36] conditions we we've looked at this project what's that we've looked at this project several times and they have [3:11:42] really put a lot of work into it and they talked to the city council and so I [3:11:48] I they know they okay well then let's take a vote [3:11:54] okay so um all in favor say I [3:12:02] I those not in favor say nay nay one [3:12:08] nay so it's approved it's approved great thank you very much [3:12:18] will go to City Council on June [3:12:25] 4th yeah that was a difficult discussion but I'm glad we had a really good discussion I think here [3:12:31] tonight all right next is uh chair and member [3:12:39] comments oh uh chair members of the Planning Commission I normally don't uh [3:12:45] follow up with a thank you but it's a big enough project complex enough project there's been a lot of feedback [3:12:50] and it's been a long process I just want to like for the record say we respect everything you're wrestling with the things we're wrestling with um I [3:12:57] appreciate the term using good faith we heard comments tonight I hope you saw that through the process in good faith [3:13:03] we were trying to absorb those comments and adapt and change of them can't guarantee we can react to every one of the comments we heard tonight but we're [3:13:09] going to try to and we have a lot of the similar feelings so um excited to continue to work with the city on this and hopefully we can continue to refine [3:13:15] and do better but just want to say respect respect all the input and thank you for your time thank you very [3:13:28] much if we could take the conversations outside [3:13:33] please if we can if we if we could take the conversations outside please is this [3:13:44] on excuse me excuse me [3:13:51] thank you and it's a glass wall so please stay [3:13:57] far away from the door thank you it's more than 75% [Laughter] [3:14:05] transparent okay on that note the next thing is uh [3:14:11] chair and member comments any member comments [3:14:17] no remember and i' say I need to spend more time trying to understand Tiff financing [3:14:24] to be honest because I know that you know I've asked about it and I feel every time I feel I understand it then somebody throws a new wrinkle at me and [3:14:30] I'm like what what you talk about I know we don't deliberate it on this Council but there's certainly I know you know a [3:14:36] lot of discussion in the community about its use right now and everything and so I I'll say I'm happy to chat with you [3:14:43] anytime there is a lot of misconceptions like people talk about pay using tax dollars I don't know that [3:14:51] that's the appropriate way to frame it sure um so yeah yeah and Bill n andorf [3:14:57] was very gracious and um sat with me for two hours talk about def financing he'll [3:15:03] do that for anyone okay yeah it's like I said it's just it's complex and so I [3:15:08] know I brought it up but it's definitely something to I know it's on the community's mind a lot [3:15:14] so so no other comments I the only thing I'd add is that um I mean [3:15:21] one hit wonder because Jimmy's coming back next time next week but or next me [3:15:27] but G take this opportunity while he have yeah I'm gonna [3:15:33] no yeah well I just want to say that you know it I think it's it's fine for us to [3:15:39] mention things like Tiff or whatever and have a comment about it but I I think it's a bad idea because it's not [3:15:45] something under our domain the lots of things that aren't under under our domain and so like you know things about [3:15:51] the building or the building code that's not that's not our thing we're looking at zoning and land use um and and City [3:15:58] policies so the city has climate action it has you know uh Equity a lot of [3:16:04] policies and those how they relate to uh land use and Zoning is important [3:16:10] um but I I think we need to pull back on any kind of you know if you get into too much detail like we're not supposed to [3:16:16] to consider whether it's rental or paid right we have no say over that we have no say about the number of two-bedroom [3:16:23] or three bedroom apartments you know there's a lot of things we just don't have say over that isn't relevant to our [3:16:29] deliberation here so I think it behooves us to not end a single public hearing at [3:16:35] 10:30 you know if we can if we can reain in some of that stuff um and and [3:16:41] concentrate on the things that are relevant to land use and uh and and Zoning so any that's it so [3:16:49] uh staff comments yeah just a couple of quick updates from the last council [3:16:55] meeting they took action on the Hankerson Town Home Project the council denied that on a unanimous um unanimous [3:17:02] vote it was 5-0 and the dental office was approved that's [3:17:15] it oh the the 6600 through 6800 yeah they are not proceeding so [3:17:23] that one never went to the city council public hearing was scheduled but they delayed a couple of times and they've [3:17:29] basically um told staff that they will not be proceeding with that project they [3:17:35] may be back later this year maybe early next year with another [3:17:41] proposal but no action taken application withdrawn essentially okay great great [3:17:47] now we have a question here oh yeah um it's about the kill development thing so [3:17:52] is it just at a stand still for now or like what do we foresee for that and how do we like if it is in the stand still [3:17:58] how do we get out of it and are is like one work required from the Developers for that yeah so the kahill study was [3:18:05] denied by the city council but they are interested in picking it back up given the current [3:18:15] work plan of the Planning Commission which is pretty robust we got a lot of things we're working on I would [3:18:20] anticipate that we that'll be on the work planner proposed possibly for next [3:18:26] year to revisit the whole [3:18:31] District all right do we have a motion to uh toour second second all in favor [3:18:38] say I I thank you everyone